AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-aa

November 13, 2000 - February 15, 2001



      
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Date: Nov 13, 2000
From: Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: This is a test. Please Ignore...
This is a test. Please Ignore. This is to test whether or not enclosures and MIME formatted text get stripped out of the message correctly. * Test. Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Test
Just checking to see if I'm inside a closed loop. . . Bob . . . --------------------------------------------- ( I have more respect for the fellow with a ) ( single idea who gets there than for the ) ( fellow with a thousand ideas who does ) ( nothing.. ) ( Thomas A. Edison ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2000
From: Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented...
Everything you need to know can be found at the following url: http://www.matronics.com/contribution/ I just used the secure credit-card option. There is also a snail-mail address for you old-fashioned types (i.e. back in the good old days when folks wouldn't abscond with your credit card info) ;) Jim Ivey N46YK Matt Dralle wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > Dear Listers, > > With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting) > and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was > clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how > messages posted to the various Lists was handled. > > As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email > program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your > message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you > include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be > accepted instead of bounced back. > > But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text > will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any > HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should > serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to > increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives. > > I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if > you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably > why. > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Admin. > > -- > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > Great minds discuss ideas, > Average minds discuss events, > Small minds discuss people... > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying...
Date: Nov 20, 2000
Matt, I think what you're doing is great for those of us flying and building Kolb aircraft. You're probably saving Kolb a full time employee in tech support just by providing the communication between builders. I know I have had a half dozen questions answered here on the list and saved Kolb support a few phone calls. You should forward this letter to Kolb, maybe they'd ante up, too. It would be great PR for the TN Kolb a/c. Thanks a bunch, Matt! Ken Broste Building a Firestar Tucson, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying... > --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > > Dear Listers, > > During this year's List Fund Raiser I have been receiving a number of > very nice comments from members regarding what the Lists mean to them. > I'm sure most everyone can echo one or more of the thoughts expressed > below. Won't you take a moment to make a Contribution to support the > continued operation and improvment of your Lists? > > A special 'thank you' to everyone that has made a contribution so far > and for all of the wonderful and supportive comments I've received! > > > To make a contribution with a credit card over an SSL Secure Web Site, > please go to the following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > or, to make a contribution with a person check, please mail it to: > > Matronics > c/o Matt Dralle > PO Box 347 > Livermore, CA 94551 > > > Thank you!! > > Matt Dralle > Email List Admin. > > > ===================== Comments From List Members ======================== > > > * You helped make this dream a reality... -Terry C. > > * Thanks for a wonderful resource! -Rick J. > > * Thanks for providing a quality product. -Bill C. > > * Have found [the List] invaluable for education while building... -Rick H. > > > * I learn so much from the List! -Robert R. > > * [The List] is better than any aviation magazines I subscribe o. -Roger H. > > * I enjoy the pages and find them very helpful. -Noel G. > > * The "List" is a great place to both receive and exten help and ideas for > building and making flying safer. -Jack B. > > > * The discussions are very helpful. -James B. > > * ...I believe this List will be a better value than the ewsletter. -Roger T. > > * [The List] has helped me with the construction of my RV-9. -Marty S. > > * VERY good reading. Excellent entertainment value. -Jerry I. > > > * [The List] has saved me many hour on wild goose chases. -Billy W. > > * Thanks for keeping my passion for flying as piqued as ever. -Terry W. > > * Keep up the nice work. -Daniel H. > > * Thanks for all the effort on behalf of Sport Aviation! -Elbie M. > > > * ...Great information source! -Richard W. > > * ...Thanks for your help and patience with a very difficult ask. -Louis W. > > * [The List] has been a great asset. -Edward C. > > * Just started and already received some valuable tips. -Scott S. > > > * Thanks for the List to let up share our passion. -Brian A. > > * ...This List is good stuff. -Russ D. > > * ...The single most helpful resource I've come across in uilding. -Craig P. > > * ...Enjoy [the List] a lot. -John H. > > > * The List is a most important tool to help building. -Brad R. > > * ...Really found the List to be great! -Geoff T. > > * Excellent contribution to the aviation community. -Larry B. > > * Great source of information... -William G. > > > * The Lists ... make building a real hoot! -Jeff O. > > * The List has been invaluable. -Matt P. > > * Thanks for letting me use the site. It's great! -Larry M. > > * ...This List has been very helpful. -Larry H. > > > * Greatest support ever for the builders and I have met many riends. -Fred H. > > * ...I love this List and have met many new friends... -Tom E. > > * Love both the List and the Search Engine. -Roy G. > > > ===================== Comments From List Members ======================== > > > -- > > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > Great minds discuss ideas, > Average minds discuss events, > Small minds discuss people... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Location for Goose neck lamp
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Hi, Ref RV-6 - Has someone come up with a location for the goose neck lamp and associated electronics that seems a "best location"? I'm waiting on a shipment of instruments and would like to get this out of the way. I remember a year or so ago that someone mentioned a location that keeps the light out of the way until you need it, but I can't find it on the archives. Thanks in advance, Tom Barnes -6 all electric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Location for Goose neck lamp
> >Hi, >Ref RV-6 - Has someone come up with a location for the goose neck lamp and >associated electronics that seems a "best location"? I'm waiting on a >shipment of instruments and would like to get this out of the way. > >I remember a year or so ago that someone mentioned a location that keeps the >light out of the way until you need it, but I can't find it on the archives. > >Thanks in advance, > >Tom Barnes -6 all electric Tom, I think yours is the FIRST message I've seen come down on the new list-server . . . I guess I ought to send you a door prize. Have you got a butane powered torch? Need a soldering iron? I've got some discontinued overstock I've been throwing into orders as they go out the door. The first time I was aware of this light and its utility was in a J-3 that had been fitted with an electrical system. The light was mounted against the cockpit wall to the left of the pilot's seat such that the light could be made to "hover" right above my lap. When not in use, it simply laid against the cockpit wall. When you get yours installed in a location you like, I'd like to have a digital picture of the installation to put up on the website. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Fig. Z-14, Sky-tek starter
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Bob, 1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for the sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons? 2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is this needed? Thanks, Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: switch
Date: Dec 12, 2000
bob i have your 2-50 switch to use for boost pump and prime solinoid. can this be wired so the center position is off?(i have already had a placard made for my switches that shows this). thanks dave pierson rv-6 606dp flying rv-6 226dp(reserved) wiring and waiting for engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: switch
> >bob >i have your 2-50 switch to use for boost pump and prime solinoid. can this >be wired so the center position is off?(i have already had a placard made >for my switches that shows this). >thanks Hmmm . . . it's a very unique mechanism inside the -50 switch that let's us keep OFF at the bottom. If you want off in the middle, you need a 2-5 . . . on-off-(on) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3" Adel Clamps
> > >Everything you ever wanted to know about Adel Clamps can be found here >including how to identify them. >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/adel.html > >Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res) >Plainfield, IL >Skinning the Wings >http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page > > > > > I would like to use 3" Adel clamps (or some thing similar) to attach my > > engine fire extinguisher. The ones in the Spruce catalog page 115 appear >to > > be made of aluminum. I would rather use steel here. Notice how the price > > jumps up $3 when they go from 2-7/8" to 3". Perhaps these are steel? > > > > Does any one have any good suggestions here? > > You'd have to call them and get somebody to read the number off of the clamp to you. Unless they specifically differentiate between steel and alum parts in the catalog I wouldn't bet on there being a difference. I suspect the jump is due to very low volume of the larger parts. Check www.beuco.com and http://www.vargaair.com/ as possible sources for large clamps. Also, consider making your own. You can cut strips of steel and cover them with heatshrink . . . (perhaps two layers) before bending to shape. The heatshrink covered area can be too big initially . . . and trimmed away as you figure out how long it needs to be. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Sky-Tec starter
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Bob, 1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for the sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons? 2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is this needed? Thanks, Stan Blanton RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net>
Subject: Starter switch with Unison ignition
Dear Listers: Does anyone know if a regular type keyed magneto/ starter switch can be used with a Vans engine equipped with the Unison electronic ignition? If not, what modifications would be needed to allow it to work? Thanks! Wayne Williams Danville, VA RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: Dan & Patty Krueger <pndkrueg(at)gulfsurf.infi.net>
Subject: P leads
Fellow builders: Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same hole in the firewall. Thank you Dan Krueger RV-6A wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: Part for Crowbar circuit
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Hi everybody, Glad to find this list. I am laying out the electical system and running wires on my Sportsman 2+2, rotarty powered. I really appreciate the great information and opinions on the Aeroelectric web site. I want to build the crowbar overvoltage system but I am having trouble finding one of the components. The schematic shows a MUS4991, wich is not a good number. This is a bi-directional switch. I think I found the part no. should be MBS4991. I have tried Digi-Key, Newark, and Mouser. Mouser shows this part, with alternate part numbers of : NTE6403 and SK9120, but they do not have any. Does anybody know where these might be had or maybe knows of another part that will work ? Thanks, Lonnie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Part for Crowbar circuit
RadioShack.com, catalog # 90-3156, Motorola MBS4991. Finn lonwood wrote: > > Hi everybody, > Glad to find this list. > I am laying out the electical system and running wires on my Sportsman 2+2, > rotarty powered. I really appreciate the great information and opinions on > the Aeroelectric web site. > I want to build the crowbar overvoltage system but I am having trouble > finding one of the components. The schematic shows a MUS4991, wich is not a > good number. This is a bi-directional switch. I think I found the part no. > should be MBS4991. I have tried Digi-Key, Newark, and Mouser. Mouser shows > this part, with alternate part numbers of : NTE6403 and SK9120, but they do > not have any. > Does anybody know where these might be had or maybe knows of another part > that will work ? > Thanks, > Lonnie > Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Part for Crowbar circuit
Date: Dec 15, 2000
Thank you Finn. Radio Shack shows them for only 34 cents apiece. Mouser showed over $8 for the NTE6403. Lonnie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald R. Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: P leads
Date: Dec 15, 2000
I bundled them together & after 8 Hrs no problems... Don Eaves Cordova TN RV6 Test Flying & Working Out Bugs - Grinning So Big I Have to Turn Sideways To Get Through A Double Door. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan & Patty Krueger Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: P leads Fellow builders: Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same hole in the firewall. Thank you Dan Krueger RV-6A wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: P leads
> > >Fellow builders: > >Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from >the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same >hole in the firewall. > >Thank you > >Dan Krueger >RV-6A wiring Sure. ESPECIALLY if you take care NOT to physically ground the p-lead shields at the panel end of their runs . . . only at the engine end. Use the shields to PROVIDE ground for the individual magneto switches as shown on many of our diagrams. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SD-8 Installation
Date: Dec 16, 2000
I am installing my SD-8 as per Figure Z-8 on Page Z-16. A few questions. Why is AWG 12 called for when the wire coming out of the SD-8 is only AWG 14 and the wire off the regulator that was provided by B&C appears even smaller than that? Can I use AWG 14? Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the firewall? The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch. The connectors that come with the SD-8 and regulator are very strange. It appears that a special tool is needed to crimp them. Why do we need these connectors? It seems like we are increasing the potential points of failure. Is it OK to cut these out and just use butt splices and service loops? Ross Mickey RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: SD-8 Installation
> >I am installing my SD-8 as per Figure Z-8 on Page Z-16. A few questions. > >Why is AWG 12 called for when the wire coming out of the SD-8 is only AWG 14 >and the wire off the regulator that was provided by B&C appears even smaller >than that? Can I use AWG 14? Yes . . . the 12AWG was selected as a worst case where the battery is back in the tail . . this is to reduce voltage drop. If all of your wiring is up front, 16-14AWG is fine. >Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the firewall? >The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch. If anyone has done this installation and has pictures to share on the arrangement, I'd be pleased to receive copies to publish on our website. >The connectors that come with the SD-8 and regulator are very strange. It >appears that a special tool is needed to crimp them. Why do we need these >connectors? It seems like we are increasing the potential points of >failure. Is it OK to cut these out and just use butt splices and service >loops? Sure . . . or how about blue knife splices with heat shrink over them? >Ross Mickey >RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Sky-Tec starter
>----- Original Message ----- >From: Stan Blanton <stanb(at)door.net> >To: aeroelectric-list >Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:24 AM >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sky-Tec starter > > > > > > Bob, > > > > 1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for >the > > sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on > > the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons? > > This change is to accommodate a problem unique to Sky-Tec and other permanent magnet motor starters. Voltage generated by the motor as it spins down causes a delayed disengagement of the pinion gear if the starter is wired like B&C and others with wound field motors. Adding the relay in the system as shown in Figure Z-14 takes care of this problem. > > 2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is > > this needed? This is needed if you want to run an alternator with a built-in regulator. The disconnect contactor provides a way to unhook a runaway alternator from your system in the event of regulator failure. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Schematic
>Hello Bob, >I'd like to start by saying how much I appreciate your website and the >information contained on it. I have some questions about some basics. I have >been studying the schematic that Europa supplied with the other literature as >well as your Figure Z-7. I believe it applies to the Rotax 912. Correct >I was wondering if I can use two separate switches for the battery and the >alternator as the Europa drawing shows. You can . . . but the single switch implementation as described in Figure Z-7 is more consistent with architecture used on airplanes with bigger electrical systems . . . hence better commonality with other aircraft. >I was wondering why your drawing shows no 30 amp breaker as the Europa >drawing does. I prefer the fusible link to feed alternator power to the system out on the firewall as opposed to bringing it into the cockpit to feed the bus. >Is the "dynamo" and the voltage regulator pin out a true representation of >the ones on the 912? I believe it is. >I would like to have the over voltage protection circuit incorporated into my >factory schematic. OV protection is included in Figure Z-7. Suggest you pitch the factory schematic and fabricate your own to built foundations of Z-7 > >I will be using an AV-10 engine monitoring system that gives an audible and >visual warning of voltages and current draw conditions which means I wouldn't >need the Alt Warning light. Effectiveness the regulator's built in warning is suspect. I'd ignore it and as you've already planned, use a system who's utility is known. >If I were to send you a copy of my drawing and the equipment list could you >show me how it should be wired? You can do this. Do each system on it's own page . . . just start from the bus through the fuse and copy down the information needed to wire just that system. This is another reason for pitching the factory schematic. Each system needs to get wired on its own page. >Will the standard Rotax alternator be enough to run a set of Aero flash >strobes/Navs and keep the other stuff operating. I know you can't possibly >answer all these questions without knowing loads and looking at the >schematic. Have you added up the running loads for all the goodies? I suspect you're going to be find with night VFR with the 18A or so available from the Rotax . . . but you need to do the study yourself. Just get out the books for each goody and add up all the running loads and tell me what you get. > But let me know if you can help me and if I can send you my >information. I know you are a busy man and will understand perfectly if you >can't get this involved. Let's figure out a way to guide you through this. My goal is to have you running about 100 times more brain snort than the average spam-can drive. Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is confidence and power. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SD-8 Installation
Date: Dec 16, 2000
> >Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the firewall? > >The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch. > > If anyone has done this installation and has pictures to share > on the arrangement, I'd be pleased to receive copies to publish > on our website. I have decided to mount them on a removable plate that will be located in the upper "V" of the passanger side firewall. A service loop will enable me to lower the panel to a reasonable working level. This seems to be the most prudent arraingement since I have decided to butt splice all of the components together. Bob, I will take pictures and send them to you. Ross Mickey RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fusible link
Hi Bob ! Glad to see you back up to where we can talk to you and not take up 3 hours of your time to sift through it. Feels good to me too . . . I noticed where you said to a man..Troy...something, about how you prefer the fat link from the alt. power to be out on the firewall. Is this the heavy duty puppy I have that is the fat looking fuse along with the nuts, bolts, and heat shrink ?? Yes . . . of course the ABF-80 fuse is used on BIG alternators generally rated at 40 to 60A. The fusible link described in the Rotax drawings is recommended for the 18A and smaller PM alternators exemplified by Rotax and others. If so, and it is a good idea to keep it North of the firewall, how would one attach it without touching things it is not supposed to ? The fuse kit comes with heatshrink that covers all hot terminals so that the fuse and wires leading up to it can be simply tied into wire bundles. The fusible link is a piece of wire covered with silicone/glass sleeving to protect adjacent wires . . . so it too is simply tied into the wire bundle. I don't suppose you mean it gets mounted actually to the firewall did you ? Did you get my post asking about using your switches with the wig wag ? It doesn't need a bracket or clamp . . although some have used an Adel clamp or similar to secure the fuse to the firewall . . . but that's not necessary. Hmmm . . . the switch question doesn't ring a bell. That might have gotten lost in the flood of previous life messages. Why not repeat it here? Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Contactor/fuse Setup
Date: Dec 17, 2000
I am arraigning my battery contactor, starter contactor, 80amp fuse and shunt. I have connected the battery and starter contactors together with a 4" piece of #2 wire. Is it acceptable to attach the 80 Amp fuse directly to the starter contactor and then attach the shunt directly to the 80 amp fuse and attach the whole setup inside the cockpit. The only downside I see is if/when the 80 amp fuse blows, it will emit some smoke. I have a 40 amp alternator. The alternative is to route a short piece of #4 or #8 wire from the starter contactor to the 80 amp fuse and then mount the 80 amp fuse on the engine side? Ross Mickey 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Grounding cable
Date: Dec 17, 2000
Bob, I need a grounding cable and can't find these on either your or B&C's website. Are you still supplying these? Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2000
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/16/00
Bob, Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered standard equipment? Thanks, Andrew Larkin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Ammeter vs. voltmeter vs lowvolts warn
> >Bob, > >Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z >not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered >standard equipment? You set your own "standards" in owner-built aircraft. Parts 23/25 say you need a means for showing that the system is operating. This could be as simple as a low volts warning light . . . ammeters have been used to fulfill this task in the past but a GOOD voltmeter combined with low volts warning is ideal . . . BTW, most of my diagrams DO show an ammeter in the form of an alternator loadmeter (see shunt in series with alternator b-lead). Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2000
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: crimping insulation on Molex pins
Bob, On your website you advise crimping molex pins so that the insulation is held in a bear hug rather than being impaled like the conductor. You say "I DO NOT RECOMMEND this on the aircraft wire - the insulation is too thin." Am I actually risking any new failure modes by following the manufacturer's recommendation? Seems like if it's good enough for the conductor it should be good enough for conductor + insulation. Andrew Larkin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Dual Electronic Ignitions
Date: Dec 18, 2000
Bob, I want to run two electronic ignitions on an O-320, and possible a full electric panel. I'm planning on an essential bus as well as dual alternators per your diagrams. I have the following concerns: 1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a single unit with a mag? 2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability? 3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power sources. Any suggested implementations? Fred Stucklen N925RV (1675 hrs/7.5 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:50 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter vs. voltmeter vs lowvolts warn > >Bob, > >Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z >not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered >standard equipment? You set your own "standards" in owner-built aircraft. Parts 23/25 say you need a means for showing that the system is operating. This could be as simple as a low volts warning light . . . ammeters have been used to fulfill this task in the past but a GOOD voltmeter combined with low volts warning is ideal . . . BTW, most of my diagrams DO show an ammeter in the form of an alternator loadmeter (see shunt in series with alternator b-lead). Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions
Date: Dec 18, 2000
Fred, Even though I am not Bob, I will offer my observations. Since they are free, they can be treated as such. > 1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a > single unit with a mag? I have heard Bob mention that 90% of the advantage of the electronic igition is gained by the first one. Therefore, he has suggested in the past, to buy one, operate your plane with one mag until it dies, install the mag you took out, run that untill it dies and then replace that with a second electronic ignition. This is what I plan on doing. > 2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really > dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the > system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability? When I get to the point of running two electronic ignitions, I will be installing a second battery of the same size as the original and swap one out annually. The idea is to have each electronic ignition wired directly to the battery (through a switch of course) without having to go through any bus. I am also going to start out with a smaller battery, 17-19 amp and a very small , 4 amp, hooked up to the SD-8. > 3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary > power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power > sources. Any suggested implementations? There are two areas of seemlessness. The first is the alternators. B&C has a special regulator that senses when the main alternator dies and automatically comes on line. I do not know if it works for the PM SD-8 alternator. This is the unit I am installing and will rely on a manual switching arrangement. As I said above, the electronic ignitions are hard wired to the battery. I would imagine one COULD hard wire both electronic ignitions off the same battery. My choice, however, would be to dedicate a battery to each one. The major drawback to these little goodies is that they need electricity to run. I would want an architecture that addresses the failure of the battery. Ross All Electric RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions
Date: Dec 18, 2000
> > > 3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary > > power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power > > sources. Any suggested implementations? I am not sure of your question, but if you mean no interruptions when moving the alternate feed switch, there is a simple way to achieve that. Instead of putting the diode in series with the alternate feed switch, put the diode across the switch's normal feed position terminals. Then, during the brief dead period when the alternate feed switch is moving, the diode will supply the ebus with juice from the (about to be shut off) master contactor. The diode will also keep the ebus from feeding back to the contactor and rest of the system, as in the original Bob design. This design has the added benefits of supplying the ebus with full voltage during normal feed operations, and no heat generated in the diode. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions
> > >Bob, > > I want to run two electronic ignitions on an O-320, and possible a full >electric panel. I'm planning on an essential bus as well as dual alternators >per your diagrams. I have the following concerns: > >1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a >single unit with a mag? There is no such thing as a SAFE airplane . . . they are very dangerous machines capable of doing great harm if improperly used and/or maintained. Likewise, cars, bows and arrows and handguns are equally dangerous. Like all tools, airplanes are easily understood and in the hands of responsible users can add to life's pleasures. I think you're looking for a RELIABLE airplane. To me, this means that from the time I break ground to the time I touch down at the INTENDED destination, I don't want to break a sweat. This is not difficult to plan for and implement no matter what equipment you choose to light the fires in your cylinders. >2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really >dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the >system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability? Maintained batteries do not fail. Only batteries that are ignored and flogged until they just won't run any more fail. In your automobile, it's okay to beat it 'til it dies. In an airplane, routine and inexpensive preventative maintenance (replace battery when capacity has dropped below your e-bus x fuel endurance) will give you a source of energy that is just as dependable as having your wings stay on the airplane during normal flight ops. >3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary >power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power >sources. Any suggested implementations? What's not seamless about what I've illustrated? Electronic ignitions should run DIRECTLY from the battery that powers them . . . I.e., from an always hot battery bus. When the main alternator fails, equipment running on the essential bus can be powered directly from the battery to take the battery contactor off line. Aside from a drop in bus voltage from 14+ to 13- volts, no piece of equipment should be aware of any changes nor suffer any interruptions of power. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: crimping insulation on Molex pins
> >Bob, > >On your website you advise crimping molex pins so that >the insulation is held in a bear hug rather than being > >impaled like the conductor. You say "I DO NOT >RECOMMEND this on the aircraft wire - the insulation >is too thin." Am I actually risking any new failure >modes by following the manufacturer's recommendation? >Seems like if it's good enough for the conductor it >should be good enough for conductor + insulation. > >Andrew Larkin These terminals were designed for automotive wire with much thicker insulation. I don't know that the support is inadequate if you have the tabs punch through the tefzel but it really looks like @#% $@. When you look at a PIDG and how it grips insulation, it seems like the bear-hug is simply an extension of that same philosophy and looks better to boot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: coax
Date: Dec 22, 2000
bob can i run com and gps antenna wire together in conduit under seat and baggage compartment? they will be going their separate ways after baggage compartment bulkhead. antennas are over three feet apart. thanks dave pierson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: coax
> >bob > >can i run com and gps antenna wire together in conduit under seat and >baggage compartment? they will be going their separate ways after baggage >compartment bulkhead. antennas are over three feet apart. >thanks > >dave pierson Yes, the routing you propose poses no special potential for problems . . . except I am concerned about the LENGTH of your GPS antenna coax. At 1500 MHz, you want to keep this as SHORT as possible . . . losses at this frequency are high. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Stereo Intercom
Date: Dec 23, 2000
I am considering Lightspeed headsets for noise reduction in an RV-8A. With ANR headsets does it make sense to install a stereo intercom? Does the circuitry that cuts out some of the noise also reduce the stereo response? Am I better off just considering Mono? Vince Welch RV-8A Fuselage Roaming Shores, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pierson's" <pierson@pro-ns.net>
Subject: switch
Date: Dec 23, 2000
bob just got the 2-5 switch for boost pump and prime. i think i have it wired right but could explain the wiring to give me some peace of mind? on---boost pump off-- (on)--boost pump and primer solinoid thanks and happy holidays dave pierson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net>
Subject: Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor
Date: Dec 24, 2000
Hi Bob, I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low. I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of a master contactor. The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw with this concept ? Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2000
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor
In my RV-3 I don't have a battery contactor, only a switch (I guess it's called a battery isolator) with a red removable key. It's mounted directly on the + terminal on the battery. Battery is in front between my legs. Very convenient and simple. Switch is designed to handle starter currents, so when switch is off, I can even work around the starter without fear of shorting the starter cable to ground. Finn Paul McAllister wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low. > I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of > a master contactor. > > The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes > to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw > with this concept ? > > Thanks, Paul > Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2000
From: "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master
Contactor --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html --- StripMime Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2000
From: "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master
Contactor Paul, There is auto relay, plastic cubic ones. They could switch 30, 80 and 120 Amp DC. They use around 100ma(0.1A) and really work fine. Look JCWhitney for them. They cheap, but works fine. Happy flying, happy holidays! Vlad N1UT - Velocity Elite, RG, Mazda 20B rotary, NA - engine installation in progress http://www.N1UT.velocity-air.com > >Hi Bob, > >I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low. >I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of >a master contactor. > >The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes >to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw >with this concept ? > >Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Stereo headphone jacks
Date: Dec 24, 2000
Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2000
From: "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo headphone jacks
Alex, Phone jacks you can get from RadioShack. Phone jacks you can buy Mono or Stereo, dependent on Intercom in use and headphones. If one Mono Headphone will be in use, most intercoms will switch to the Mono mode for all. Mic jacks order from ACS, they specific ones. Also there is available jack kits. Vlad N1UT - Velocity Elite, RG, Mazda 20B rotary, NA - engine installation in progress http://www.N1UT.velocity-air.com > > >Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I >am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor
Date: Dec 24, 2000
Paul, If you are using the SD-8 from B+C, this is exactly what Bob has depicted in his "All Electric on a Budget" diagram. This is on his website in the Appendix Z as well as reprints section. Ross > I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low. > I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of > a master contactor. > > The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes > to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw > with this concept ? > > Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald R. Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: Stereo headphone jacks
Date: Dec 24, 2000
Try this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com RV6 Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo headphone jacks Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 25, 2000
Subject: Re: Stereo headphone jacks
> >>I'd be careful using RS components where quality and longevity might be a factor. I've got some Tandy components in my wiring and have had a few glitches. Even the set screws backed out of the rotary switch knobs and let them fall off... now it's more difficult to switch banks of EGT/CHT sensors in flight! If Bob sells a competing product, I'd buy his (over RS) in a heartbeat. Just be careful, scrutinize quality, remember how difficult lots of this stuff could be to service/repair once you are finished and flying. Right now I wish I had made my oil cooler easier to dismount for flushing! Bill Boyd RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA Clifton Forge, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: thermostat senders question
Date: Dec 25, 2000
(re-posted here for Gary) For any electronics gurus out there that can help. We are trying to sense water temperature at the engine blocks of the replica P-38 for purposes of supplying the data to both a meter and the electronic ignition. The sender output is a resistance type (about 6K ohms at 60 deg F and drops as temp goes up. There is no other place on the block that we can really put a second sensor easily so we have one down at the thermostat lower on the hose (the redrive covers the stock location). Yesterday the test pilot had a water pump belt failure on the port engine and wasn't able to determine the problem readily because the indicated temp didn't increase (no circulation, so no accurate measurement of coolant temp at that location). We would like to find a way to use the engine block mounted sender for both purposes. Is there a way to take the resistive output from the sender and run it thru two high impedance follower stages to get two isolated resistance indications that track the input? All help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo headphone jacks
Date: Dec 25, 2000
> Try this: > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html > Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com > RV6 Flying Thanks for the replies, but to repeat, I'm looking for stereo aviation headphone jacks. The ones that B&C sell (formerly sold by Bob) are mono. BTW, I agree, RS is the last stop before the landfill for most things. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B. Keith Peshak" <keith.peshak(at)gtwn.net>
Subject: thermostat senders question
Date: Dec 25, 2000
We would like to find a way to use the engine block mounted sender for both purposes. Is there a way to take the resistive output from the sender and run it through two high impedance follower stages to get two isolated resistance indications that track the input? All help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. 1. Need to see the schematic of the gauge, but... Most gauges measure voltage, so, the circuit would take you temperature variable resistance, use it with a standard resistor in a voltage divider, reduce the impedance with an emitter follower (which would also drop ~0.6 Vdc). That will, likely, require a recalibration of the meter reading of temperature. 2. You need to remember thermal inertia. Your interest, it seems, is what is going on inside the cylinder. By the time whatever change results in a significant heating or cooling of the engine block, damage from detonation has long since taken place. Your measurement system architecture needs to avoid a delay in result. 3. You need to remember Wisconsin. When you fly to Oshkosh next year to attend my forums (which have all been canceled), you need to remember that the temperature up there is -40 a few feet off the ground. The thermal drain on the engine block will be significant, and will change with the yearly cycle. This should be considered in the measurement system architecture - make sure you have a good signal to noise ratio against the other factors that enter into the actual measurement equation. Goodluck. eJ8+IhsTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AFgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAF0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABhZXJvZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tAFNNVFAAYWVyb2VsZWN0cmlj LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIAAAAGFl cm9lbGVjdHJpYy1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAIgAA ACdhZXJvZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJwAAAAIBCzABAAAAJQAAAFNNVFA6QUVS T0VMRUNUUklDLUxJU1RATUFUUk9OSUNTLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAE AAAAAAAAA1hKAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIABADMAAABSRTog QWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3Q6IHRoZXJtb3N0YXQgc2VuZGVycyBxdWVzdGlvbgC9EgEFgAMADgAA ANAHDAAZAA0AKAA2AAEAaAEBIIADAA4AAADQBwwAGQANAB8AOAABAGEBAQmAAQAhAAAANDg3RTQ3 MzA2OURBRDQxMUI1MUNFMEE2MDZDMTAwMDAA9QYBA5AGAEAGAAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwOI5mKpuwAEeAHAAAQAAADMAAABSRTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmlj LUxpc3Q6IHRoZXJtb3N0YXQgc2VuZGVycyBxdWVzdGlvbgAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcBuqpg5MEd+ SdppEdS1HOCmBsEAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABrZWl0aC5wZXNo YWtAZ3R3bi5uZXQAAAADAAYQWwEGiwMABxDEBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAV0VXT1VMRExJS0VUT0ZJ TkRBV0FZVE9VU0VUSEVFTkdJTkVCTE9DS01PVU5URURTRU5ERVJGT1JCT1RIUFVSUE9TRVNJU1RI RVJFQVdBWVRPVEFLRVRIRVJFU0lTVElWRU9VVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAKUEAAChBAAALQcAAExaRnUN igFq/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3 AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUUEL8SBXZSB3CGBsIGQgbGlr GsB0bywgZguAGyBhGtBheW0bgnURsBuAaBrACfBnhwuAGsACYG9jayAEYPZ1AjAJgCARsBvgBJAb sCcFsQbgHOAgcAhwcG/BEbBzLiAgSQQgHOH/FhAcCAGQG2Ic8RYQAJATwOxpdhrACGB0H3AFQANS LxzTHnUAcBsgch4QIGmnBUAc4ANgdWcfUHQa4NggaGkk4QdwcAmAAHDWYxrAAhBsFaB3HrETwPxh ZweRG5EnACRxJSEEAD0G8GEeMiHUJfMb0WljvSgwaQIgIDIoMBuAcgDQrx3QHOILgCKhPyAAQSZg USVAZWxwGtViIJFwXxNQBZAHMB4xH/FUEYBuTmsEIAuAHABkdiXyLu8ZzAqgA2AT0GMFQAqHLqv2 YwBAL+YxH/EHwB5BG5G/EbAcxATwHPAAwCIgYyJgkmYc02dhJNBlLB2A7SKALjTwIABNH7AFQDRT swQgB4BhcwhwGsB2BvA/JuI0oCgANKAc4izQcmPudSRhGuQhQ3kIYBuAE+D7JcAqUHQ2QwrABzAC YCG2/yXyNKAcojfiJGAfUBwQKMK/JeALICHFBbEt0jZ2IClQ3HZpBIE0oBYRdSYRKqP/Jbc7hAOg E+AkYBPQHsImZfwodyVQEXAa1QdAKAA90AMDYCvQfjAuNiBW+GRjKS00O2ImYDSgG0L0bHk+UnE3 0CCDLLEHQPxpYjlRKaEz1geAQIIWENsuAAuAZzPTORguCoUKhfoyH/FZONEdYDJkFhAHgP8G0B6x IFIAwAMgHVEAIAcw70lkPPJAgQeQdDSgJGEywXxtc0zRBCBBYCoRTZFnvm9HQyRBAIENsDdEeRtA +x6SH/FCHFEc8SIgB4BNs35lIkAFwBFxGRAhsxsAdP8ttB5gJWADABvAKXACMCuR9ymBR1JRYW8G 8EdGHP00oL8l4ADAPbEi4w2wG5BuRdT/EYAEIBWgR1EAkCYCIUIDoL8LUS5RS+U2BQeAU1FzE7N/ HAA3sCVQL6I2QknSJyNh/zaAPhAcAQ2wC2AcUC3RUfTtSG0zSW9KdVcEAAWgAIH6bh/xVxzwA6A4 whjgHFNwT3Noax+wH1AdYHh9BUB5NhBKwVwBQHEb4W37HFAe4XVNUEFGEYAiQQdAPwMgLFBYkVMx JhA6IGQpvzSgOMJfDyn0UHI5GXUr0LMgVE2RLTQakBwQZgfR/2nwJ4Ez4DP1JLEb4C0zHMP/SxNC cAtxTpIc70PSLEJSyf80oCPibfNRhTuDbOJiomFx/U+AYzogLTNNkWHgLAZgQ78EgR5BLdFGZFm/ WsstHeD/IVI2MzjCZKROMQRwUrNLMf0bkW5OUByxRcMcADRQTtH/Z7QfMR6yANA80SnVdFEese9M USEhHPF6IXVLMXPaRMH7KYNIbUd3UQpAHcAf8AqFBRUxAH/AAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAA BzAgHMlXqW7AAUAACDAgHMlXqW7AAR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA9vY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2000
From: bert murillo <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: check 983 $28.80
Dear Sir: Amonth ago, I sent you my check for your book, about Electric system for my RV6am , As of today I have never receive it, nor I have received any replies to previous e-mails, i sent to the E; mail address you list on your web page. Terrible service. I could have bought the book, from another supplier.. I hope you can anser this message, sent as suggested by some one on the rv-list. Bert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Stereo headphone jacks
Date: Dec 25, 2000
DUH, I just figured out that the aviation phone jacks are the same size as regular stereo headphones - I guess I am pleasantly surprised. Sorry for the dumb questions.... Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Strobe interconnect
Date: Dec 26, 2000
Does anyone know if the synchronizing line which can be run between Whelen strobe power supplies is a signal level? In other words, does it need to be wire of the same gauge as the circuit is fused for? This is not clarified in their literature. I would like to run smaller wire than the 16awg for the synch. line. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2000
From: "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo headphone jacks
I bought Mic jacks from an Aviation supply. After 15 hours one of my Mic jack become bad, misalignment between mic and push-to-talk contacts. Good quality? No, just bad jack. Same time I installed Stereo Phone jacks from RS. Works great. I had have chance to compare one from ACS and RS. Same supplyer, same country of originated (guess which?) - in both cases work fine. Just use what you can, but check each given specimen quality for assurance. Vlad N1UT > > > > Try this: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html > > Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com > > RV6 Flying > > >Thanks for the replies, but to repeat, I'm looking for stereo aviation >headphone jacks. The ones that B&C sell (formerly sold by Bob) are mono. > >BTW, I agree, RS is the last stop before the landfill for most things. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >6A > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Strobe interconnect
Date: Dec 27, 2000
I thought I'd read 18 AWG for this one - that's what I was planning to use...Here it is on pg 14 of their manual - the stuff I got from Van's... Ralph Capen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobe interconnect > > Does anyone know if the synchronizing line which can be run between Whelen > strobe power supplies is a signal level? In other words, does it need to be > wire of the same gauge as the circuit is fused for? This is not clarified > in their literature. I would like to run smaller wire than the 16awg for > the synch. line. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > 6A > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: B&C Regulator questions
Date: Dec 27, 2000
A couple of questions that I'm sure are already answered somewhere, if someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction. My engine came with an alternator with a built-in voltage regulator. I already ordered the B&C external regulator. Is there an overwhelming reason not to return the B&C unit and use the internal regulator on the alternator? If I do keep the B&C unit, is there a way to wire the overvoltage lamp so that it can also indicate canopy open? I know I'll need some sort of switch for the canopy latch. Other than that how do I wire the lamp to the switch to share it with the B&C unit? Thanks for your help! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Strobe interconnect
Date: Dec 27, 2000
Thanks, Ralph. Clear as a bell on page 14.... Alex > I thought I'd read 18 AWG for this one - that's what I was planning to > use...Here it is on pg 14 of their manual - the stuff I got from Van's... > > Ralph Capen ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: B&C Regulator questions
Date: Dec 29, 2000
> > A couple of questions that I'm sure are already answered somewhere, if > someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction. > > My engine came with an alternator with a built-in voltage regulator. I > already ordered the B&C external regulator. Is there an overwhelming reason > not to return the B&C unit and use the internal regulator on the alternator? As Bob says in his book, everything will eventually break after a period of time. Your voltage regulator will break after 1, 1,000 or 20,000 hours. I ordered my engine from Aerosport without an alternator so that I could put a B&C on without an internal voltage regulator. Then I just used Bob's diagrams to build in overvoltage protection and protection from transient spikes. If you choose to keep the internally regulated alternator, Bob has diagrams that will allow you to install overvoltage protection in case the internal unit fails. If I were you, I would first see if your engine maker\rebuilder will take back the alternator for a refund. If not, I would use it and use the aeroelectric diagrams to install overvoltage protection. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Alternator -> airframe ground
Date: Dec 29, 2000
> 1. The mounting bracket is anodized (Blue on this one) and is a near perfect > insulator. Except for minor scratches, produced when bolting the bracket to > the engine and bolting the alternator to the bracket, it provides Zero > ground return. The frame of the alternator is the big current ground return > and Must be grounded to the engine as is the starter motor. The minor > scratches soon corrode and become insulators. I chose to run a heavy (#6) > ground strap from the frame of the alternator to the frame of the starter > using plated aviation grade connectors with 5/16ths holes clamped by the > respective pivot and mounting bolts. I could have removed the bracket and > removed an appropriate amount of anodizing from it; alodined and or coated > with silicone grease; and then remounted and safetied, but the ground strap > was easier and a more resilient method' in my opinion. An excellent post on an alternator problem that also provides insight into another topic: using the airframe for ground versus running ground wires. There has been much debate on the list about whether to run ground wires from electrical items in the wings back into the fuselage, or save the weight and use the wing frame itself for ground. Having experience in the world of car stereo where small amounts of resistance can be picked up using an auto chassis for ground (measurable), which leads to ground loops and noise in the system, I am a firm believer in the "single point ground" theory. BTW, Bob Nuckolls also advocates single point ground, and in fact sells a nice little solution for terminating your ground wires together at the firewall. Anyway, many of us have Phlogistan anodized spars. If Gary Graham experienced this alternator ground problem with an anodized alternator bracket, what do you think is happening with your wing spar ground path? Seems to me that the addition of less than a pound's worth of wire is good insurance. FWIW, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, painting www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: Low fuel warning system
Date: Jan 02, 2001
I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to tell me when air starts to appear at the top. In other words the mains would have run dry. I looked at the system Power point avionics sells but it is too pricey for me. I understand all new cars have a low fuel level sensor in their tanks. Does anybody know how to use these, maybe a simple electronic circuit that could be put together to light up an led? Lonnie Sportsman 2+2, rotary powered, wiring stage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2001
From: Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Low fuel warning system
lonwood wrote: > I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to > tell me when air starts to appear at the top. > In other words the mains would have run dry. I looked at the system Power > point avionics sells but it is too pricey for me. I understand all new cars > have a low fuel level sensor in their tanks. Does anybody know how to use > these, maybe a simple electronic circuit that could be put together to light > up an led? I guess the easiest thing to do would be to rig up a float switch, kinda like the ballcock in a toilet cistern. When the tank level dips below a certain level, the switch is activated and the light comes on. However, that wouldn't work well in any sort of uncoordinated or inverted flight. You could build something based on Jim Weir's capacitance fuel gauge (see the RST Elewctronics Web page for information). If you put in multiple sensor elements, it should work well, no matter which way was up. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Loads
>>Have you added up the running loads for all the goodies? I suspect >>you're going to be find with night VFR with the 18A or so >>available from the Rotax . . . but you need to do the study yourself. >>Just get out the books for each goody and add up all the running loads >>and tell me what you get. >But let me know if you can help me and if I can send you my >information. I know you are a busy man and will understand perfectly if you >can't get this involved. >>Let's figure out a way to guide you through this. My goal is >>to have you running about 100 times more brain snort than the average >>spam-can driver. Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is confidence and >>power. Hi Bob, I've been trying to find out the total current draw anticipated in my Europa. You were right, the Rotax puts out 17.8 amps @5800 rpm. Here's what I've got. It's not much but some of the equipment is common and I thought you might could fill in some of the blanks as to their current draw and add it up. Where the question marks are means I don't know, or it's what the factory shows it fused at. (Bob's comments inside the "<>") RC Allen Attitude Indicator---------------------------------- 1.2 Turn Coordinator(imported)(like RC Allen) ------------------- .5 AV-10 Engine monitor----------------------------------------- .85 Michell Electric Tach (redundant to monitor------------------ .2 Skysport Capacitance Fuel gage------------------------------- .2 Fuel Pump(at)T.O.& Lnd (Facet)---------------------------------- 2.0 Comm.Radio---------------------------------------------------- 0.5 < .5 amp should be plenty for receive. Your 2.6 value would be intermittent duty transmit only> Transponder--------------------------------------------------- 1.8a max. Alt. Encoder-------------------------------------------------- 0.5 < I'm pretty sure it won't neet more than this> (i.a.w. manual) suspect your 1a estimate is way too high> Intercom------------------------------------------------------ .13a Trim, Pitch(MAC)---------------------------------------------- 0.1 AeroFlash Strobe---------------------------------------------- 4.0 AeroFlash Nav/Tail Lite Combo (4lamps)------------------------ 8.0 Landing Lite (maybe two 35w WalMart Specials------------------ 5.0 CD Player----------------------------------------------------- 1.0 Instrument Lites- (type yet to be determined, maybe electroluminesant type for six 3" and two 2" instruments and for sure one Grimes maplite)-------- 1.0 Battery Contactor -------------------------------------------- 1.0 _____________________________ Nav lights. For long night cruise, I'm not sure I'd run the Nav lights with so small an alternator . . .> One other thing, can some of these things be put on the same common fuse instead of having so many fuses, for example the tach and fuel gage, or the transponder and encoder? If I add these up it appears that I would need a total of about 25 amps from the alternator. I have a friend that has essentially the same equipment or maybe more and the only time he notices a problem is when he turns on a landing lite. Maybe some of these numbers are worst case loads and some may be too high to begin with. Do I need an additional alternator? Do I need to do more research or can you help me with what I've given you? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2001
From: Bill Medsker <bmedsker(at)grm.net>
Subject: Re: Low fuel warning system
www.wicks.com/aircraft page 247 $25, turns on light. Velocity uses this one and also has (or used to) one that mounts from the outside if your tank is already built. Bill Medsker lonwood wrote: > > > I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to > tell me when air starts to appear at the top. > In other words the mains would have run dry. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Wire
> >Is it necessary to run a shielded power line to a Whelen 3 bulb power >supply? No >Do you think it is appropriate to mount this 2.1 lbs box on the belly >skin? I'd fabricate a shelf that attaches to internal structure. The problem with attaching anything to skin is the labor and downtime involved in repairing skins that have become cracked due to vibration and extra loads attached to them. >The Whelen manual mentions shielded wire but it doesn't spell out what >systems will need one. The only wires that need to be shielded in the stobe system are those that run from power supply to flash tube fixtures. Their install kits used to come with the appropriate wire for this task. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2001
From: "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net>
Subject: relay for fuel pump
Can anyone tell me, specifically (maybe even a part no.), what relay I should use to turn on my fuel pump when the relay is activated by the stick switch? I see in the catalogs a loooong list that are 12vdc and 10amps, but vary greatly in price. How is the relay attached to the bulkhead (or wherever)? I've read about "rails", or something. I would like to have fast-on or screw terminals. Thanks for helping out a beginner! Wayne Williams RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: relay for fuel pump
> > >Can anyone tell me, specifically (maybe even a part no.), what relay I >should use to turn on my fuel pump when the relay is activated by the stick >switch? I see in the catalogs a loooong list that are 12vdc and 10amps, but >vary greatly in price. How is the relay attached to the bulkhead (or >wherever)? I've read about "rails", or something. I would like to have >fast-on or screw terminals. >Thanks for helping out a beginner! > >Wayne Williams >RV-8A What size fuel pump. The S704-1 relay illustrated on our website catalog is capable of handling about ANY size fuel pump . . . however, if you're using a little Fawcet pump, you may not need a relay . . . these little critters don't draw much current. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2001
From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
Subject: Couple of questions
Listers, The aeroelectric prints show a battery temp sensor. My battery is in the tail so I think I will need one. Where can these be found? Dosn't seem to be on the web site and no hits on the archive. Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these in an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture. Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically? TIA Jim Bean ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2001
Subject: Alternator
Hi Folks, I'm new here and am here because I know from nothing about electronics. Just bought Bob's book and am wearing my way into it. Question. I'm building an RV-9A and putting an Lyc 0-320 on it. I just ordered an alternator kit from Niagara with the built in regulator. Bob's statement was "all built in regulators are switchers." What does that mean? Do I need additional protection from over voltage? In the diagram shown in his book (figure 3-3.). Bob shows an over voltage relay and a voltage regulator. I thought one of the primary functions of a voltage regulator was to provide over voltage protection for the battery. Appreciate any help here. Dennis Thomas RV-9A Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2001
From: "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: relay for fuel pump
Bob: I am using the Fawcet (non-fuel injected) pump. I did look at your web site and thought those might be more than I needed. I really didn't see anything in your book (although I got a lot of other information from it!) Thanks for you help. Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Couple of questions
> >Listers, >The aeroelectric prints show a battery temp sensor. My battery is in the >tail so I think I will need one. Where can these be found? Dosn't seem >to be on the web site and no hits on the archive. Unless you plan to do a lot of cold weather flying or long cruise at altitude, I wouldn't worry about it. If you decide you want to include this feature, the sensor can be had directly from B*C at 316.283.8000 >Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these in >an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture. >Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically? >TIA Jim Bean Torque? Not sure I understand the question. Are you talking about the gooseneck lighting kit on our website catalog? That fixture was picked for it's relatively small diameter neck that is still stiff enough to hold position under moderate g-loading. The base where it plugs into the airplane is quite sturdy and will easily withstand normal bending moments applied to position the light for use or stow it out of the way. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: relay for fuel pump
> > >Bob: > >I am using the Fawcet (non-fuel injected) pump. I did look at your web site >and thought those might be more than I needed. I really didn't see anything >in your book (although I got a lot of other information from it!) >Thanks for you help. No problem. That little guy doesn't need much current. How about switching it directly and leaving the relay out? If you DO use a relay, something LIKE the S704-1 is nice because it has the handy push-on spade terminals . . . even if it is a bit over-rated. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Blind Mate coax connector
Date: Jan 09, 2001
I assembled the transponder connector which is mounted, via snap ring, to the back of the tray. It is the type with the 90 degree take-off, c shaped 50 ohm matching bushing, and cap. Can someone tell me what the matching bushing does, and how? Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain the RF, am I right? Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Transponder Antenna
Date: Jan 10, 2001
Listers, Does anybody have any designs for constructing your own transponder antenna? It would seem that that $68.95 simple device could be constructed out of a chassis mount BNC connector and piano wire..... Fred Stucklen N925RV (1700+ hrs/7.5 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RKOdell(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2001
Subject: Wig Wag parts
Bob and listers... I'm looking for a source and model numbers of the flasher and relay (or the stuff to build the relay) to construct Bob's wigwag circuit. (wigwag.pdf with the lights and wigwag cicuit controlled by two switches). I've got the switches and am at the point where I need to get this done, but the flasher and relay aren't available at the Aeroelectric site. If someone can provide a list of components, I'll just order them from RadioShack. Thanks, Keith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W4PPN(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2001
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna
The difficulty is that the center conductor of the coax connector is made out of either nickel plated brass or tin plated in case of some of the older connectors. The piano wire is spring steel and it id near impossible to solder or bond the two together for a good long lasting rf connection. Then you must make it water tight so as not to have it short across from ground to center conductor or else you will not get any signal out. Good luck in whichever course you try. Howard 1/2 of 80188 N28117 wiring and finish kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchDCGS(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2001
Subject: Re: Wig Wag parts
Keith, I'll see what I can find out but if you find out first please share the info with the group!! Thanks, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder Antenna
I bought mine from Chief's for less than $20, I think. Finn "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" wrote: > > Listers, > > Does anybody have any designs for constructing your own transponder > antenna? It would seem that that $68.95 simple device could be constructed > out of a chassis mount BNC connector and piano wire..... > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV (1700+ hrs/7.5 Yrs) > E. Windsor, CT 06088 > WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com > Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Jan 11, 2001
Subject: Trim switch wiring
From: Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com>
Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator trim. Thanks in advance, Hal Woodruff Lancair IVP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Trim switch wiring
Date: Jan 11, 2001
Hal, I just just purchased a pair of relay decks from MAC so I could do the same thing, they came with a wiring diagram. If you give me a fax no. I can send it to you. Al Paxhia, SR2500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Woodruff" <woodruff(at)swefco.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim switch wiring > > Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control > sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot > controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm > planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator > trim. > > Thanks in advance, > > Hal Woodruff > Lancair IVP > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Trim switch wiring
Date: Jan 11, 2001
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control > sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot > controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm > planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator > trim. On faster aircraft, my research has taught me that the installation needs a speed controller set on min speed. Whenever this thread gets going on the RV List, many voice the opinion that there should always be a trim disconnect switch (mine is the lowest button on my Infinity grips). This means that there is lots of time to do some thing if your co-pilot makes a wrong move with the trim switch. Norman Hunger RV6A not flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Trim switch wiring
Date: Jan 11, 2001
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control > sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot > controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm > planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator > trim. I do not know the answer to your question. However I would like to comment on the requirement for this type of "need". I believe that we should use only the complexity, cost, effort, etc., which is necessary to meet our mission. Anything above that requirement adds uneeded complexity, cost, maintenance, and the potential to compromise a flight. You should ask yourself the question "do I need this for my type of flying or is it just neat technology that I would have fun exploring. For example if you are concerned about an unruly passenger in your right seat perhaps you should design a mechanism that overrides his control stick and pedals. No flame intended - just asking for a reality check. I'm still deleting stuff that I don't need. Ernest Kells RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwayne(at)gamewood.net
Subject: Re: Trim switch wiring
Date: Jan 12, 2001
Hal: I am in the process of wiring my Infinity stick. The relay allows two sticks to be wired to one function (one relay for each servo), but the first input gets control. (The other input is basically shut off while the other switch has control.) I have not seen anything that allows a priority input, but I think its a great idea. Please let the list know if you find anything! Wayne Williams RV-8A (wiring) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim switch wiring From: Hal Woodruff Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator trim. Thanks in advance, Hal Woodruff Lancair IVP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Blind Mate coax connector
> > >I assembled the transponder connector which is mounted, via snap ring, to >the back of the tray. It is the type with the 90 degree take-off, c shaped >50 ohm matching bushing, and cap. Can someone tell me what the matching >bushing does, and how? When you said c-shaped, the first thing that came to mind was a similar connector I assembled a few years ago. There was a c-shaped piece of plastic that drops inside the shell where the center conductor is soldered to the connector's center pin. The cap is then used to cover this opening . . . some caps are press fit friction retained, others solder on. Does this make sense? >Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the >little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was >going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain the >RF, am I right? Virtually all connectors of this genre I've encountered soldered both the center conductor and the shield. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Trim switch wiring
> > >Hal: > >I am in the process of wiring my Infinity stick. The relay allows two >sticks to be wired to one function (one relay for each servo), but the >first input gets control. (The other input is basically shut off while the >other switch has control.) I have not seen anything that allows a priority >input, but I think its a great idea. Please let the list know if you find >anything! > >Wayne Williams >RV-8A (wiring) I have a pilot-priority wiring diagram for control stick trim switches . . . but I'm in Oregon preparing for a weekend seminar tomorrow and don't have access to the drawings. I'll publish them on our website wen I get back next week. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Jan 12, 2001
Subject: Re: Trim switch wiring
From: Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net>
> > Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate > control > sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot > controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm > planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and > elevator > trim. This question came up on the Zenith list a while back and someone was kind enough to send me this suggestion (see attached diagram) - fwiw... -- Grant Corriveau Montreal Zodiac 601hds/CAM100 C-GHTF ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Jan 12, 2001
Subject: Trim switch wiring
From: Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com>
Thanks to all for the great ideas on how to wire the cooley hat trim switches. I've got what I need now to figure out how I'm going to do this. Hal Woodruff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Blind Mate coax connector
I guess you are referring to the Terra trays? My recollection is that you separate the center core of the stranded coax (make sure you use stranded- RG-58A/U) and solder it to the center pin. then drop on the c shaped piece of plastic, then solder the shielding braid to the silver plated cap and snap it on to the top of the assembly. The you are shielded all the way. Does this make sense? Chris Bobka EAA Chapter 25 Minneapolis Technical Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: diodes
Bob N. Sorry to see that you will not have time to support the sale of many items. I went to order from your site about a month ago and saw your your friends at B & C. I could not figure out how you kept up with it all before. Good luck. The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse holders. I plan to use some of the spare slots on them to carry spare fuses. My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting electrical issues involving aircraft. Thank you for your contribution to aviation, Rick D. Murphy Rebel N754SM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Retard breakerless mags
From: "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Jan 15, 2001
01/15/2001 06:41:26 AM Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side. My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help. Don Nowakowski RV-6 513DN reserved, Wiring...... "The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard." Michael Collins (1987) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <alkritzm(at)collins.rockwell.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/14/01
Date: Jan 15, 2001
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 01/15/2001 07:01:39 AM The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse holders. I thought this would be a great way to go also, but have been convinced other wise by a couple problems that pilots I know have had in the past. Both are the same failure mode of something shorts on the radio switch, radio smokes (remember C/B or fuse is installed to protect the wire not the radio). Smoke in the cockpit prompts the master to be switched off then start looking for the cause so you can get power back to some of the equipment. If you have C/B you can open them all and start putting them back in slow, if smoke reappears you can reopen that breaker. That being said I really like Bob main/ essential bus system but I plan on using C/Bs on the essential bus just to give me more flexibility in the event something goes wrong. I still plan on using fuse on the main bus to save cost, weight and complexity. But on the essential bus C/Bs give more flexibly in shutting one piece of equipment down, this may also be helpful during flight test phase when your getting the bugs out of an untested system. Best of luck, Alan Kritzman Cedar Rapids, IA Firewall forward, RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: wire sizes
Date: Jan 15, 2001
I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for the things he recommends. As I prepare to wire up my RV6, I have a question about wire sizes that seem to be at variance to other recommendations. My 6 will have a VFR panel and a 35 amp alternator. My Questions with regard to schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking? Thanks for the help Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing Visalia, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2001
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
>I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and >found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for >the things he recommends. >schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use >#4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also >the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be >very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking? The rating's for the toaster and coffee percolator! sorry couldn't help myself:o) Bruce >Thanks for the help >Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing >Visalia, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
Date: Jan 15, 2001
You are reading the charts correctly. I am using #4 for my 40 amp alternator and #2 to the starter. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Stewart" <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire sizes > > > >I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and > >found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for > >the things he recommends. > >schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use > >#4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also > >the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be > >very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking? > > The rating's for the toaster and coffee percolator! > > sorry couldn't help myself:o) > > Bruce > > > >Thanks for the help > >Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing > >Visalia, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Blind Mate coax connector
Date: Jan 16, 2001
-List message posted by: Christian Bobka > > I guess you are referring to the Terra trays? My recollection is that you > separate the center core of the stranded coax (make sure you use stranded- > RG-58A/U) and solder it to the center pin. then drop on the c shaped piece > of plastic, then solder the shielding braid to the silver plated cap and > snap it on to the top of the assembly. The you are shielded all the way. > Does this make sense? > > Chris Bobka > EAA Chapter 25 Minneapolis > Technical Counselor Bob wrote: When you said c-shaped, the first thing that came to mind was a similar connector I assembled a few years ago. There was a c-shaped piece of plastic that drops inside the shell where the center conductor is soldered to the connector's center pin. The cap is then used to cover this opening . . . some caps are press fit friction retained, others solder on. Does this make sense? >Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the >little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was >going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain the >RF, am I right? Virtually all connectors of this genre I've encountered soldered both the center conductor and the shield. Bob . . . Bob, Chris, thanks for the replies. The tray is for a Garmin 327 transponder, and the c-shaped "impedence" matcher is made from metal, probably plated brass, but that is a guess. The question regarding soldering the braid was specifically whether or not the braid would be inside or outside of the little port. The braid had to be soldered to the outside, and I was wondering if that was ok. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
Date: Jan 16, 2001
It is the starter load that you need to accommodate. Just a small amount of resistance kills the power out put at high amperages. We are talking in the range of 200 to 300 amps. Light wires might work when it is warm and the starter and battery are in good condition but if during cold weather or even hot starts with an old battery, you might need all the power that your battery can muster. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh EAA Chapter 75 helping fellow aviators ----- Original Message ----- From: " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire sizes > > I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and > found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for > the things he recommends. As I prepare to wire up my RV6, I have a question > about wire sizes that seem to be at variance to other recommendations. My 6 > will have a VFR panel and a 35 amp alternator. My Questions with regard to > schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use > #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also > the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be > very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking? > Thanks for the help > Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing > Visalia, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
Date: Jan 16, 2001
> Since my battery is on the firewall why not use > #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and I used # 2 for starter then later saw where Bob made a note that #4 would be okay for front engine front battery setups. A wire two feet in diameter would have even less resistance but there is this tradeoff stuff like weight and cost. Autos with bigger engines and starters use #4 successfully. Makes sense too that the starter design would be a factor. Keep connections clean and tight and I betcha you have much less resistance than the usual installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
Date: Jan 16, 2001
> Since my battery is on the firewall why not use > #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and I used # 2 for starter then later saw where Bob made a note that #4 would be okay for front engine front battery setups. A wire two feet in diameter would have even less resistance but there is this tradeoff stuff like weight and cost. Autos with bigger engines and starters use #4 successfully. Makes sense too that the starter design would be a factor. Keep connections clean and tight and I betcha you have much less resistance than the usual installation. Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK - Certificated and ready to fly! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs -
01/14/01 > > >The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that >your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse >holders. > >I thought this would be a great way to go also, but have been convinced >other wise by a couple problems that pilots I know have had in the past. >Both are the same failure mode of something shorts on the radio switch, >radio smokes (remember C/B or fuse is installed to protect the wire not the >radio). Smoke in the cockpit prompts the master to be switched off then >start looking for the cause so you can get power back to some of the >equipment. If you have C/B you can open them all and start putting them >back in slow, if smoke reappears you can reopen that breaker. >That being said I really like Bob main/ essential bus system but I plan on >using C/Bs on the essential bus just to give me more flexibility in the >event something goes wrong. I still plan on using fuse on the main bus to >save cost, weight and complexity. But on the essential bus C/Bs give more >flexibly in shutting one piece of equipment down, this may also be helpful >during flight test phase when your getting the bugs out of an untested >system Do what ever makes you comfortable but the "smoking radio syndrome" just isn't very high on my list of concerns. I've not seen it happen since we got rid of vacuum tubes about 25 years ago. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
Date: Jan 16, 2001
> Ralph > The battery feeds the starter. The starter of a car uses 200 to 300 amps > when starting the engine. A plane won't use that much but it will still > need a much bigger cable than #4,such as a #2. HTH. > At 250 amps, with 7 feet of cable (don't forget to add the length of the ground cable), 4awg would have a voltage drop of .425 volts, while 2awg would have a .273 volt drop. The difference in voltage delivered to the starter in this case would be .152 volts. I decided to go with 4awg based upon this. To further support that decision, a while back I did a calculation of the temperature rise that 4awg wire would have in this case, and I recall it to be around 1 degree Fahrenheit per second, which is quite acceptable. If someone cares enough, I will redo this calculation. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
> >You are reading the charts correctly. I am using #4 for my 40 amp >alternator and #2 to the starter. > >Ross > The 4AWG recommendation came from the fact that most of the the power distribution system is wired with 4AWG or larger for the rest of the high current conductors. The b-lead feed on an alternator can be downsized to 6 or even 8AWG in some cases . . . but it only saves an ounce or two and you have to chase down a short piece of other sized wire and terminals to match . . . when adding a couple more feet of 4AWG and matching terminals is an easy thing to do since you need those sizes anyhow. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: wire sizes
> > > > Ralph > > The battery feeds the starter. The starter of a car uses 200 to 300 amps > > when starting the engine. A plane won't use that much but it will still > > need a much bigger cable than #4,such as a #2. HTH. > > > >At 250 amps, with 7 feet of cable (don't forget to add the length of the >ground cable), 4awg would have a voltage drop of .425 volts, while 2awg >would have a .273 volt drop. The difference in voltage delivered to the >starter in this case would be .152 volts. I decided to go with 4awg based >upon this. > >To further support that decision, a while back I did a calculation of the >temperature rise that 4awg wire would have in this case, and I recall it to >be around 1 degree Fahrenheit per second, which is quite acceptable. If >someone cares enough, I will redo this calculation. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >6A Good science sir . . . Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: diodes
Date: Jan 17, 2001
> My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the > battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio > shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is > used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for > these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up > for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting > electrical issues involving aircraft. > Thank you for your contribution to aviation, > Rick D. > Murphy Rebel N754SM > > Rick, I don't know if your question was answered or not, but here is my solution. Use diodes from Radio Shack, No. 276-1144, or from other electronic supply houses look for 1n5404. Lonnie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: diodes
> > The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that >your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse >holders. I plan to use some of the spare slots on them to carry spare >fuses. Good move. In every new design I try to have at least 30% spares for future expansion > My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the >battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio >shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is >used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for >these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up >for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting >electrical issues involving aircraft. The electrical characteristics of these diodes are not critical and there are dozens of suitable parts. Generally speaking if the diode has a voltage rating of at least 50v and at least 1 amp, it's suitable for use as a spike catcher on the coils of any contactor. There >Thank you for your contribution to aviation, >Rick D. >Murphy Rebel N754SM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Retard breakerless mags
> >Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left >side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side. >My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this >arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do >away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator >in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help. I am not familiar with the retard breakerless mag. However, if it is controlled like other mags by grounding a p-lead to shut it off, you may certainly use the 1-3's as you have described. Can you fill me in on how the breakerless device works? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness
Hi Bob I have purchased your Crowbar overvoltage module thru B&C for the RV-6A that I am building (learned about it from your posts on RV-List). I am concerned by Note #4 on the installation instructions: "4) The OV module should be tested every year for proper operation. Suggest removal at every annual inspection for bench testing as described in notes 1 - 3". I am trying to build an aircraft that is easy to maintain, if this procedure is necessary then I would like to return the unit and get something else more stable. Could you comment please! I guess I don't understand the phrase "more stable" . . . these devices are quite stable but how do you guarantee longevity of this or any other electronic device? It isn't like this guy does it's task several times a flight. If the other components in the system are sturdy and well maintained, it's unlikely that you will ever have to depend on it to do its job. So how does one insure continued airworthiness without testing it to make sure that it's still ready to do the job when needed? There isn't an OV protection product on the market that is free from this concern. If it were my airplane the thing gets looked at every annual along with wing bolts, control cables, prop bolts, etc. etc. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: diodes
Lonnie, No, the question about the diode was not answered. Thanks for your reply. I think the question got buried in the rambling text. Rick D. > From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: diodes > > > > My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the > > battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio > > shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is > > used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for > > these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up > > for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting > > electrical issues involving aircraft. > > Thank you for your contribution to aviation, > > Rick D. > > Murphy Rebel N754SM > > > > > Rick, > I don't know if your question was answered or not, but here is my solution. > Use diodes from Radio Shack, No. 276-1144, or from other electronic supply > houses > look for 1n5404. > Lonnie > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2001
From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Couple of questions
hi, Sorry I framed the question poorly. The gooseneck base looks very sturdy. I was worried about the structure that supports it. The sturdiest thing in an RV cockpit is the panel. Is the panel a good choice for mounting or does it need to be on the side somewhere? It -seems- that the panel next to the side wall would be good. regards Jim Bean "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > >Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these in > >an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture. > >Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically? > >TIA Jim Bean > > Torque? Not sure I understand the question. Are you > talking about the gooseneck lighting kit on our > website catalog? That fixture was picked for it's > relatively small diameter neck that is still stiff > enough to hold position under moderate g-loading. > The base where it plugs into the airplane is quite > sturdy and will easily withstand normal bending > moments applied to position the light for use or > stow it out of the way. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: essential bus system
Bob, I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it occurred to me that one could simplify the essential bus system by just putting a diode and fuse together in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you only need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel, less wire, but you still have the option of turning on selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to the battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide ahead of time what's essential and what's not. The only drawback I can see is when you're in limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious power. Is this serious and can you think of any other drawbacks? Thanks, Andrew Larkin Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2001
Subject: Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness
From: b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com>
I agree with Bob, think of the OV module as a fire extinguisher. They don't do anything but sit there, but are checked periodically to help insure they work if needed. When I was a safety engineer, we looked at parts like that very carefully because the "time of exposure" was very high. ie the time since you last knew it worked. So Bob's note is no reflection on the quality of stability of the part, just a reflection of some very prudent thinking. Bruce Green writes: > > > Hi Bob > > I have purchased your Crowbar overvoltage module thru B&C for the > RV-6A > that I am building (learned about it from your posts on RV-List). > > I am concerned by Note #4 on the installation instructions: > > "4) The OV module should be tested every year for proper operation. > Suggest removal at every annual inspection for bench testing as > described in notes 1 - 3". > > I am trying to build an aircraft that is easy to maintain, if this > procedure is necessary then I would like to return the unit and get > something else more stable. > > Could you comment please! > > > I guess I don't understand the phrase "more stable" . . . these > devices are quite stable but how do you guarantee longevity of > this or any other electronic device? It isn't like this guy > does it's task several times a flight. If the other > components in the system are sturdy and well maintained, it's > unlikely that you will ever have to depend on it to do its job. > > So how does one insure continued airworthiness without > testing it to make sure that it's still ready to do the job > when needed? There isn't an OV protection product on the > market that is free from this concern. If it were my airplane > the thing gets looked at every annual along with wing bolts, > control cables, prop bolts, etc. etc. > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------------- > ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) > ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) > ( education" Albert Einstein ) > -------------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness
Date: Jan 21, 2001
Perhaps some simple circuitry could be added to where a press to test would send a voltage slightly higher than the trigger voltage to pop the circuit breaker. I have to admit I do not know enough about electronics to design the changes. I would be willing to put the parts together and try it if somebody came up with a circuit design. Lonnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "b green" <rvinfo(at)juno.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness > > I agree with Bob, think of the OV module as a fire extinguisher. They > don't do anything but sit there, but are checked periodically to help > insure they work if needed. When I was a safety engineer, we looked at > parts like that very carefully because the "time of exposure" was very > high. ie the time since you last knew it worked. So Bob's note is no > reflection on the quality of stability of the part, just a reflection of > some very prudent thinking. > > Bruce Green > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/18/01
From: "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Jan 21, 2001
01/21/2001 01:28:31 PM Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as "shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead for starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition on the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator (actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I know it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response. Don Nowakowski RV-6...wiring and worrying "The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard." Michael Collins (1987) From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Retard breakerless mags > >Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left >side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side. >My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this >arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do >away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator >in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help. I am not familiar with the retard breakerless mag. However, if it is controlled like other mags by grounding a p-lead to shut it off, you may certainly use the 1-3's as you have described. Can you fill me in on how the breakerless device works? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jan 21, 2001
Subject: Matronics Web Server Upgrade...
B Dear Listers, I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server this afternoon (1/21/01) and will be taking it offline for a number of hours. I hope to have it back online by this evening sometime, depending on how well the upgrade goes. Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2001
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Wig Wag
Keith, I"ve built and tested the flasher module AEC9020-1 as shown with the 555 timer , capacitor and 15K resister. Other than having to make a few changes like adding a diode across the relay coil and slowing down the flash rate with a 33uf cap, the cicucuit performs quite well. Since I haven't installed the flasher in my airplane yet (still have another year to go) I don't know how noisy the unit might be. Clay Rebel 475 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net>
Date: Jan 22, 2001
Bob- I was wondering if the Gooseneck light you sell is powerful enough to help with the back lit or sunlight reading problem with the LCD displays like the Garmin 195 and RMI engine monitors. I have found that using a mirror or strong light [possibly halogen, or your goosneck] that shines light on the LCD display solves a marginally readable display problem. Ralph Bookout, Certified Slumlord RV6 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 22, 2001
From: Bill Medsker <bmedsker(at)grm.net>
Subject: Looking for hangar
I have a friend that has a Myers OTW that he wants to take to Sun and Fun in the spring of 2002. He is looking for a hangar to rent in Florida and Southern Georgia to winter it in this coming winter. Any idea's be appreciated... Velocity builder, Bill Medsker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net>
Subject: RG400 & GPS
Date: Jan 22, 2001
Hi all Is RG400 coaxial cable okay to use for my GPS antenna feed?, or do I need something more exotic for such high frequencies ? Thanks, Paul McAllister Europa Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs -
01/18/01 > > >Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard >Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as >"shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an >external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals >with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead for >starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition on >the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the >electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to >provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up >the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be >asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator >(actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I know >it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response. Yes, you can use this magneto just as if it were a non-impulse coupled magneto. Just ignore the second breaker points connection used in the shower-of-sparks system. You'll use the advanced set of points to time the magneto for normal operations. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued
Airworthiness > >Perhaps some simple circuitry could be added to where a press >to test would send a voltage slightly higher than the trigger voltage >to pop the circuit breaker. I have to admit I do not know enough >about electronics to design the changes. I would be willing to put the parts >together and try it if somebody came up with a circuit design. >Lonnie I used to include a press-to-test lead on our OV modules . . . then folks started hooking them up to buttons on the panel and testing them every flight . . . totally unnecessary and hard on breakers. They're not hard to test in-situ for an annual. You take a 6v lantern battery with some clip leads, one of which has a 3-5A fuse in it. Open the crowbar breaker and clip the battery across it so that the battery ADDS to existing ship's battery voltage . . . you get about 18 volts with this setup. With the master switch on but engine not running, touch the last clip lead to the battery. The crowbar module should trigger and pop the fuse. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: essential bus system
> >Bob, > >I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it >occurred to me that one could simplify the essential >bus system by just putting a diode and fuse together >in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you only >need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel, >less wire, but you still have the option of turning on >selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to the >battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide >ahead of time what's essential and what's not. Not sure what you're suggesting here. If you jumpered the contactor with a diode/fuse combo, how would you shut the thing off to make the bus cold? What's so difficult to decide? Have you read chapter 17? >The only drawback I can see is when you're in >limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious >power. Is this serious and can you think of any other >drawbacks? Not sure I understand your idea. You can fax a sketch to 316.685.8617 and we'll talk about it. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: 50 ohm
Date: Jan 22, 2001
Exactly what does it mean when coax is described as 50 ohm impedence? Is this some sort of standard test of a standard length? (I know, just build it and fly it, don't worry about this type of thing) This clearly is only curiosity on my part. Also, I found a 90 degree BNC male/BNC female connector at RS, which works perfectly for belly mount antennas. I am (appropriately) skeptical of most RS stuff, but how important is a fitting like this for optimum radio operation? Thanks, Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/18/01
Date: Jan 23, 2001
If you use the "retard breaker" type mag. Do NOT hook up the mag switch for that option if you don't have the "shower" installed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:37 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/18/01 > > > > > > >Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard > >Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as > >"shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an > >external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals > >with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead for > >starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition on > >the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the > >electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to > >provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up > >the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be > >asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator > >(actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I know > >it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response. > > Yes, you can use this magneto just as if it were > a non-impulse coupled magneto. Just ignore the > second breaker points connection used in the > shower-of-sparks system. You'll use the advanced > set of points to time the magneto for normal operations. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: 50 ohm
50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF) when "looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to terminate it with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC current) ohm meter. Actually the cable can be viewed as a combination of an infinite number of small capacitors and coils whose resistances to radio frequencies combine into the 50 ohms over a wide frequency range. The "ohm" rating of a coax cable is determined by a relation of the diameters of the inner conductor and the outer conductor (shield) and the material separating the two, if I'm not mistaken. Bottom line, you cannot determine the radio frequency "ohm" rating of a cable by using an ohm meter. Finn Alex Peterson wrote: > > Exactly what does it mean when coax is described as 50 ohm impedence? Is > this some sort of standard test of a standard length? (I know, just build > it and fly it, don't worry about this type of thing) This clearly is only > curiosity on my part. > > Also, I found a 90 degree BNC male/BNC female connector at RS, which works > perfectly for belly mount antennas. I am (appropriately) skeptical of most > RS stuff, but how important is a fitting like this for optimum radio > operation? > > Thanks, > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > 6A Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: 50 ohm
Date: Jan 23, 2001
> 50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF) when > "looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to terminate it > with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC current) ohm > meter. Thanks, Finn. However, your reply basically amplified my question. Impedence, an AC function of resistance, capacitance and inductance, is very much dependent on the frequency applied. Hence, my original question of how the 50 ohm impedence is determined, perhaps at some specific frequency? I'll research further and post the findings. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2001
From: mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fast-On Terminal Crimping
For Bob Nuckolls: I bought an Amp Pro-Crimper II, tool part # 58433-3, w/ die part # 58423-1, some time ago to handle my crimping requirements for ring and fast-on terminals. It's description says "Insulated terminals & splices (PIDG, Plasti-grip)". It has worked great so far except, imagine my surprise and consternation when I noticed the little '*' and read that it is "not for use with PIDG FASTON receptacles". I called AMP and they confirmed the information and said I have to use another crimper (cost & aggravation, etc). My questions. How can you get adequate crimping performance for ring terminals, splices, AND fastons out of the crimper you sell when AMP does not? What do you recommend I do for the many faston crimps needed for implementing AeroElectric (your) guidance? Thanks for the AeroElectric Connection. It's a terrific resource. Mike Deeter Velocity RG (3.5 years and counting) --- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > Nuckolls, III" > > Larkin > > > >Bob, > > > >I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it > >occurred to me that one could simplify the > essential > >bus system by just putting a diode and fuse > together > >in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you > only > >need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel, > >less wire, but you still have the option of turning > on > >selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to > the > >battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide > >ahead of time what's essential and what's not. > > Not sure what you're suggesting here. If you > jumpered the contactor with a diode/fuse combo, > how would you shut the thing off to make the > bus cold? > > What's so difficult to decide? Have you read > chapter 17? > > > >The only drawback I can see is when you're in > >limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious > >power. Is this serious and can you think of any > other > >drawbacks? > > Not sure I understand your idea. You can fax a > sketch to 316.685.8617 and we'll talk about > it. > > > Bob . . . > > -------------------------------------------------- > ( "Imagination is more important than > knowledge. ) > ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives > formal ) > ( education" Albert Einstein > ) > > -------------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > > > and through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2001
From: mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: essential bus system
Bob Nuckolls: I purchased the continuous duty contactor for use as an OV contactor (I have the regulator built-in to my alternator). The AeroElectric schematics do not show the jumper which arrived already installed on the contactor? Do I remove the jumper? Mike Deeter (mechanical engineer, electrical novice) Velocity RG Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 24, 2001
Subject: Re: 50 ohm
Alex: A coaxial cable's characteristic impedance is not frequency-dependent. (Cable losses are!) To complicate things, there are frequency-specific effects where a resonant length of coax serves as a transformer and reflects back to the transmitter whatever load (open, short, whatever) is seen at the far end. This can be put to use for matching a 52 ohm transmitter to a 150 ohm loop antenna through a chosen length of, say, 75 ohm coax spliced in the feedline. Such a set-up will only work perfectly at one frequency. For most other applications, the frequency of the energy in a coaxial cable doesn't really matter much, except that attenuation rises with frequency for all types of cable. That's about all I ever knew about this topic, so I hope it helps; maybe Bob will weigh in here, or the rest of the ham operators on the list. -Bill B RV-6A flying considering change-over to hidden wingtip antennas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 24, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: 50 ohm
With a properly terminated cable it should be 50 ohms over a very large frequency range. In order to avoid loss in your lines you should use 50 ohm connectors as well. This gets more critical the higher you go (e.g. GPS frequencies in the GHz range). Generally, the thicker the coax cable the less loss it has. Finn Alex Peterson wrote: > > > 50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF) > when > > "looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to > terminate it > > with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC > current) ohm > > meter. > > Thanks, Finn. However, your reply basically amplified my question. > Impedence, an AC function of resistance, capacitance and inductance, is very > much dependent on the frequency applied. Hence, my original question of how > the 50 ohm impedence is determined, perhaps at some specific frequency? > > I'll research further and post the findings. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > 6A > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 23, 2001
Subject: Wing antenna wires
I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing tip antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill the correct holes for the correct grommets? Thanks, Kim Nicholas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: isolator diode
Bob N. I am hooking up one of your isolator diodes, the one that isolates the main bus from the essential bus. It is not clear to me as to how the terminals should be connected. I understand that the + of the diode goes to the e-bus and that the AC goes to the main bus, but there are two AC terminals. I am also looking at figure Z1 in your book that shows the diode block. Does it matter which AC diode terminal is connected to the main bus? If not fine. If it does matter then I would need to know if the correct terminal is in the clockwise or counterclockwise corner of the diode block as you look at the terminals. Is there a way to check which terminal is which? Thanks, Rick D. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: grounding
Bob N. and/or others, I have about 20 ground connections located on the left side of my panel. The grounds are from the engine instruments, their lights and misc warning lights. Can these ground wires be consolidated at the left side (i.e. close by the instruments and lights) and then run one large wire (12 ga) back to the common ground block which is located on the opposite side of the aircraft? Will there be ground loop or interference problems with this arrangement. The wires would be consolidated at the left onto a terminal board of some sort. Any and all comments will be appreciated. Thank you, Rick D. Murphy Rebel N754SM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: isolator diode
Date: Jan 26, 2001
Richard, Maybe this will help. http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s401-25.jpg Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: isolator diode > > Bob N. > I am hooking up one of your isolator diodes, the one that isolates > the main bus from the essential bus. It is not clear to me as to how the > terminals should be connected. I understand that the + of the diode goes > to the e-bus and that the AC goes to the main bus, but there are two AC > terminals. I am also looking at figure Z1 in your book that shows the > diode block. Does it matter which AC diode terminal is connected to the > main bus? If not fine. If it does matter then I would need to know if > the correct terminal is in the clockwise or counterclockwise corner of > the diode block as you look at the terminals. Is there a way to check > which terminal is which? > Thanks, > Rick D. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: grounding
> >Bob N. and/or others, > I have about 20 ground connections located on the left side of my >panel. The grounds are from the engine instruments, their lights and >misc warning lights. Can these ground wires be consolidated at the left >side (i.e. close by the instruments and lights) and then run one large >wire (12 ga) back to the common ground block which is located on the >opposite side of the aircraft? Will there be ground loop or interference >problems with this arrangement. The wires would be consolidated at the >left onto a terminal board of some sort. Any and all comments will be >appreciated. >Thank you, >Rick D. >Murphy Rebel N754SM Not generally a good idea. First there is the possiblity for interaction between systems sharing the ground wire but more importantly, you have lots of goodies depending on one piece of hardware. Why didn't you put the ground block on the firewall and tie your engine bond strap and battery minus cables to a common bolt along with grounds for all the panel mounted goodies? How do you connect all the ground up on the right side of the airplane? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wing antenna wires
> >I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing tip >antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid >interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip >lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing >ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill >the correct holes for the correct grommets? > >Thanks, > >Kim Nicholas Figure 1/4" o.d. for coaxial cable used to wire antennas. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Subject: Re: Wing antenna wires
Hi Kim, go and buy the coax, then get the grommets to suit making sure they don't crush the coax or be too loose so as to flop around, then you should be able to drill the correct size hole. If the coax insulation is squeezed it can change the electrical properties and lead to other troubles so be carefull of that. Recently I helped a friend install a Garmin 100 in his RV 4 and he used the plastic pushin type grommets which worked great however he overdrilled a few holes and the little plastic tabs didn't hold the grommet firmly in the hole. Maybe do a few test holes before drilling the ribs. Also thinkabout what the grommet is made from as it can get "very" hot inside the wing in direct sun etc. Bruce Stewart >>I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing tip >>antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid >>interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip >>lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing >>ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill >>the correct holes for the correct grommets? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Kim Nicholas > > Figure 1/4" o.d. for coaxial cable used to wire antennas. > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Multiple circuits in one conduit
I am building a Lancair ES, and will have position lights, strobe lights, landing lights and nav antenna all out on the end of the wing. Does anyone know if all these circuits can be ran in the same conduit? Doesn't the coax for the nav antenna have shielding to shield EMI from, in particular, the strobe cable? The strobe power supply will be mounted in the fuselage. What other options are there? Thanks......Mike ===== LNCE N811ES 5% arrow54t(at)yahoo.com Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
AEROELECTRIC-LIST
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Subject: Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit
What type of coax where you going to use for the nav antenna? Bruce > > >I am building a Lancair ES, and will have >position lights, strobe lights, landing lights >and nav antenna all out on the end of the wing. >Does anyone know if all these circuits can be ran >in the same conduit? Doesn't the coax for the >nav antenna have shielding to shield EMI from, >in particular, the strobe cable? The strobe >power supply will be mounted in the fuselage. >What other options are there? > >Thanks......Mike > >===== >LNCE N811ES 5% >arrow54t(at)yahoo.com > >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2001
From: mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Two Batteries in Parallel?
Bob Nuckolls: I recently purchased 2 RG batteries to put in my Velocity. I did so for purely maintenance rotation reasons since I have 2 mags. I'd planned to simply wire them in parallel, w/ the rest of wiring as in your Z1 diagram. Is that OK or must I use an aux battery contactor and switch as in your diagram Z2? Thanks.....Mike Deeter, Velocity RG Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 01/26/01
> Not generally a good idea. First there is the possiblity > for interaction between systems sharing the ground wire > but more importantly, you have lots of goodies depending on > one piece of hardware. Why didn't you put the ground block > on the firewall and tie your engine bond strap and battery > minus cables to a common bolt along with grounds for all the > panel mounted goodies? > > How do you connect all the ground up on the right side of > the airplane? > > Bob . . . > > __________ Bob Nuckolls, Jerry C. Jerry, Thanks that answers the diode terminal question. Bob, Thank you for the insight to the grounding issues. I have one of your ground blocks mounted on the upper right side of the firewall near where the battery is located. I was hoping to minimize all of the ground wires required to get to the ground block. It is no big deal for me to run these wires as I believe there are 48 fast-ons there and I suspected that individual wires was the way to go. Rick D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net>
Subject: Switch for the turn coordinator
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Hi all I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft. My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or should not put this on its own switch. Thanks, Paul McAllister Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
From: Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit
Bruce, I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax. Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help shield any EMI? Mike Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Subject: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
Bob: No doubt this is a dumb question but can the flag style Amp or Panduit Faston terminals (P 183 and 185 of Mouser catalog) be crimped with a regular style crimping tool or do they require something different? Thanks. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Switch for the turn coordinator
From: "Denis (Bum) Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
on 1/26/01 23:04, Paul McAllister at pma(at)obtero.net wrote: > > Hi all > > I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was > wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft. > > My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason > why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or > should not put this on its own switch. > > > Thanks, > > Paul McAllister > Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net > > Well here is my opinion. Something as important as the turn coordinator should have its own circuit protection, as should most components of your panel. The only argument for putting a switch on the turn coordinator is to facilitate trouble shooting when not flying, and possibly to be able to turn it off to conserve power during a limp home scenario with day vfr conditions. Otherwise wire it hot (through a fuse or breaker) to the master switched power and plan on limping home either with it on or with the master switch off. I used a pullable circuit breaker. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Switch for the turn coordinator
Paul - I think the switch is for preserving instrument life(dollars), for those who fly mostly VFR. It won't be used for VFR flight but if visibility deteriorates you can turn it on and have a gyro to help keep the wings level. I will put a switch in for my T/C if I install one. I too would like to hear from others on this matter. Bill Mills RANS S-7/912 in progress Castro Valley, Ca. (SF bay area) > >Hi all > >I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was >wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft. > >My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason >why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or >should not put this on its own switch. > > >Thanks, > >Paul McAllister >Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Switch for the turn coordinator
--- William Mills wrote: > > > Paul - > > I think the switch is for preserving instrument life(dollars), for > those who fly mostly VFR. It won't be used for VFR flight but if > visibility deteriorates you can turn it on and have a gyro to help > keep the wings level. I will put a switch in for my T/C if I install > one. > I too would like to hear from others on this matter. I have read threads on this topic and one point comes up. What is happening to your gyro when there is no power applied? It's not like these things are computer hard drives (power off, they land the head and lock up) - would that gyro would be free to flop around during your VFR maneuvering? With power applied, at least it will be stabilized during flight. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Panel Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Grounding Block
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to that which comes on Electric Bob's unit. I found one source, but I'd have to buy 100 strips of 5. I'd also like to know a source for the 3/8" brass bolts. I found plenty of brass plates at a local salvage depot. Thanks in advance. Tom Barnes -6 electrical ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terminaltown(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
In a message dated 1/27/01 12:28:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, HCRV6(at)aol.com writes: << lag style Amp or Panduit Faston terminals (P 183 and 185 of Mouser catalog) be crimped with a regular style crimping tool or do they require something different? >> Hi Harry: Flags cannot be crimped in a regular crimpre. Reason being is you will crush the female quik on section with the forward area of the dies. The best solution I've found is to buy a cheap pair of crimpers and grind the jaws back to where they will allow you to crimp without damaging the Q/O area. So if you are doing Reds and blue, you'll ned 2 cheapos. Best regards, John @ Terminal Town's Home Page! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terminaltown(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Grounding Block
In a message dated 1/27/01 2:50:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, skytop(at)corecomm.net writes: << Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to that which comes on Electric Bob's unit >>
Terminal Town's /Electrical Connector/Terminal blocks or http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page99.html. They are called U-90's. Scroll down the page. Best regards, John @ Terminal Town's Home Page! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Grounding Block
Have you checked Terminaltown.com? Kevin -9A wiring > Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to > that which comes on Electric Bob's unit. I found one source, but I'd have > to buy 100 strips of 5. I'd also like to know a source for the 3/8" brass > bolts. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
> >In a message dated 1/27/01 4:06:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, >Terminaltown(at)aol.com writes: > ><< Flags cannot be crimped in a regular crimper. Reason being is you will >crush the female quik on section with the forward area of the dies. >> > > >Thanks John. That is exactly what I was afraid I was going to hear. It's >interesting that in the Mouser catalog they show an Amp crimper on the same >page as the flag terminals and it says it will crimp "all" terminals. You >can't believe anything you read anymore. Also, be aware of your proposed terminal's ability to provide insulation support in addition to the electrical connection at the wire grip. There are lots of terminals out there that are attractive for their variety and special features but fall short when it comes to long service life in an vehicle that shakes a lot. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf The terminals you put on wires should have metallic grips both on the wire for electrical connection and the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding Block
Dear Bob, Jerry Carter told me that you have an electric primer system. But, I could not find it on your page. Can you help? Getting tired of putting my engine to sleep with ether. ersf2b(at)oregoncoast.com Ed Storo Ed, I don't have a "system" for sale but I've written in my book about my own fondest wishes for a primer system. The Beech BE-77 Skipper was my training airplane when I learned to fly. It had an electric primer system consisting of a simple electric valve in a line that tee'd off the downstream side of the electric boost pump. An extra contact in the ignition switch would close when pushed in while holding the key in the START position. This dumped fuel into the primer system while the engine was drawing air during cranking. For an airplane with a carburetor priming line, it was ESSENTIAL that fuel enter the engine while cranking so that it was drawn into the induction system rather than dribble out the carburetor air duct. Having read dozens of stories about pilots who limped their airplanes with compromised fuel delivery to safe landings with repeated strokes on a primer pump, I theorized that the primer system might be enhanced as follows: Install a 4-port primer system that dumps fuel into the manifold right outside the intake valve for each cylinder. Plumb it up with an electric valve tapped into the pressure side of your boost pump . . . better yet, provide a separate pump plumbed directly to a tank that you plan to empty last during the course of normal flight operations. The enhancement comes from adding a needle valve in the line that you calibrate on the ground for a fuel flow rate in the 55-65% power range for your engine. Now, if you loose primary fuel flow, you may pull the carb back to idle-cuttoff mixture, shut of the primary fuel flow system, turn on the primer and then adjust throttle (which has now become a mixture control) for smoothest running engine. The electric valve is available from Aircraft Spruce. The pump is your garden variety FAWCET solid-state pump. You'd need to track down a needle valve from a hydraulic systems parts supplier. It needs to be a small one . . . take a look at some of the larger valves available from aquarium supplies stores used to set up air flows. (Be sure to safety the valve position after you've set it for proper fuel flow). In the past 13 years since I first published that idea, two builders have told me that the system worked to save their bacon AND the airplane when a failure occurred in their primary fuel delivery systems. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Switch for the turn coordinator
> >on 1/26/01 23:04, Paul McAllister at pma(at)obtero.net wrote: > >> >> Hi all >> >> I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was >> wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft. >> >> My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason >> why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or >> should not put this on its own switch. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Paul McAllister >> Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net >> >> Well here is my opinion. Older T/C instruments used brush type DC motors . . . very low current but non-the-less . . . subject to brush wear. However, most of the failures of these instruments to come on line happen when you first power up . . . a commutator that sits for long periods of time not being used tend to corrode and loose contact with the brush. Given the low current, low torque nature of these motors, they are most likely to fail from dis-use than from gross wearout. I'd run one of these guys all the time and overhaul it every 200 hours or 4 years, which ever comes first. Modern T/C instruments have brushless motors and solid state inverters to drive them. There is no value in leaving this kind of instrument shut down with some notion of "saving it until I need it most". You need to KNOW when this guy has died and letting it run all the time (like 99% of all type certificated aircraft) is the best bet. Remember, your making bets against a double failure in the same given 4-hour flight. When you're dealing with a vacuum system, you have a single failure that can bring down both gyro instruments. The probability of double failure is probably pretty high on TC aircraft compared to OwnerBuildAndMaintained (OBAM) aircraft. TC aircraft owners put of EVERY bit of maintenance they can for as long as they can 'cause the checkbook takes a heavy hit whenever anyone legally works on the airplane. You guys can and should consider preventative maintenance activities that would shock the C-172 owner. You can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost and benefit from system reliability two to ten times better than the what the SpamCan drive enjoys. >Something as important as the turn coordinator should have its own circuit >protection, as should most components of your panel. I've published thousands of words on this topic. An excellent synopsis of all these works can be found in chapter 17 of The AeroElectric Connection. >The only argument for putting a switch on the turn coordinator is to >facilitate trouble shooting when not flying, and possibly to be able to turn >it off to conserve power during a limp home scenario with day vfr >conditions. Otherwise wire it hot (through a fuse or breaker) to the master >switched power and plan on limping home either with it on or with the master >switch off. Please don't do this . . . it's a narrow focus solution for a problem that is unlikely to happen in YOUR airplane. One of the most difficult tasks you face as an OBAM aircraft owner is how to quit thinking like a SpamCan owner. A flight-systems approach to power distribution is not difficult to deduce and implement on your airplane. Let's make decisions on knowledge, understanding and wisdom, not on worry. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Essential Bus alt feed
I started hooking up the alternate feed to the essential bus according to the drawings and then went back to the book to verify the size wire for the fusable link. The apparent rule is to use 4 sizes smaller wire for the link, and the drawing shows a 20 AWG feeding a 14 AWG to the fuse block. Please excuse my ignorance, as I am electrically challenged, Isnt 18 AWG 4 sizes smaller than 14 AWG, or am I missing something? Thanks in advance Kevin Shannon RV-9A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
In a message dated 1/28/01 8:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: << The terminals you put on wires should have metallic grips both on the wire for electrical connection and the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp. >> Thanks for the reminder Bob. I got momentarily intrigued with those flag terminals. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit
> >Bruce, >I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax. > Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the >other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help >shield any EMI? Mike Don't worry about it. However, I would recommend RG-400 as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses silver-plated double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality. It uses polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer allowed in certificated aircraft. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit
Date: Jan 28, 2001
Bob, I am also considering a wing tip antenna installation in an RV-8A. I have Aeroflash strobes with individual power supplies mounted at each wing tip. The connection from the power supply to the strobe is unshielded wire about 8" long. Will this short piece of unshielded lead radiate into the nearby Nav antenna? If so, is there anything that I can do about it or do I have to give up on a wing tip Nav antenna? Vince Welch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiple circuits in one conduit > > > > >Bruce, > >I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax. > > Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the > >other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help > >shield any EMI? Mike > > > Don't worry about it. However, I would recommend RG-400 > as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses silver-plated > double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is > an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality. > It uses polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer > allowed in certificated aircraft. > > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------------- > ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) > ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) > ( education" Albert Einstein ) > -------------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit
> >Bob, > >I am also considering a wing tip antenna installation in an RV-8A. I >have Aeroflash strobes with individual power supplies mounted at each >wing tip. The connection from the power supply to the strobe is >unshielded wire about 8" long. Will this short piece of unshielded >lead radiate into the nearby Nav antenna? If so, is there anything >that I can do about it or do I have to give up on a wing tip Nav >antenna? > >Vince Welch Go ahead and run the wires together. If there IS a noise problem due to proximity of wiring it's not hard to fix after you've test flown the setup. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Two Batteries in Parallel?
> >Bob Nuckolls: > >I recently purchased 2 RG batteries to put in my >Velocity. I did so for purely maintenance rotation >reasons since I have 2 mags. I'd planned to simply >wire them in parallel, w/ the rest of wiring as in >your Z1 diagram. Is that OK or must I use an aux >battery contactor and switch as in your diagram Z2? > >Thanks.....Mike Deeter, Velocity RG > > >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ You can do that okay. BTW, your radio ships from the distributor tomorrow. I'm mailing the harness and wiring diagram from here tomorrow morning also. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)JohnDeere.com>
Subject: grounding
Date: Jan 29, 2001
<<>> If you look at how the diodes are connected internal to the bridge assembly, you will see that either of the AC terminals will provide the needed function. Just don't hook up the bridge assemblies as shown in Z-4 or Z-6. The spike catching diode function messes up the cross feed contactor function. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: UMA instrument lighting
Date: Jan 29, 2001
I wanted to give UMA a positive plug regarding their electroluminescent instrument lighting and their customer service. These light units fit between the instrument and the panel, and direct lighting back onto the instrument face. The evenness of the light, and the ability to dim quite low while retaining easy reading of the instrument is as good as it gets. Price is much better than getting incandescent backlights built into the instrument. Long after I had thrown away the packaging for the four units I'd purchased from Aircraft Spruce, I realized that I should have gotten different color lights (the ones I bought had light blue, and the other instruments have green backlighting). I called UMA, and they said send them back and they'd send green ones, no charge. I offered to pay shipping, they said no problem, they'll cover it. Got 'em back today. Alex Peterson (sitting in the dark workshop looking at cool panel lights) Maple Grove, MN 6A ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
Date: Jan 29, 2001
Harry- I sent you that last message before I read Bob's message and your comment. Not sure what I will do now- perhaps use some heavy duty heat shrink as strain relief? Have you been to Bob's seminar? Ralph Bookout ----- Original Message ----- From: <HCRV6(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:45 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping of flag style faston terminals > > In a message dated 1/28/01 8:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, > nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: > > << The terminals you put on wires should have metallic grips both on the wire > for electrical connection and the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp. >> > > Thanks for the reminder Bob. I got momentarily intrigued with those flag > terminals. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, finish kit stuff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Alternator Questions
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Bob, I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit with an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with external regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the following questions: 1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain effect the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach? 2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF) better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent failure modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach? 3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against internal regulators? Fred Stucklen N925RV (1730 hrs/7.75 Yrs) E. Windsor, CT 06088 WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >Bob, > > I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all >electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit with >an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm >hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with external >regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the >possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator >regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation >community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the >following questions: > >1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an >alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain effect >the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach? No >2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators >utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF) >better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent failure >modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach? An alternator with a built in regulator is probably MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . . More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However, internal regulators generally do not include ov protection to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition. >3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against >internal regulators? If the FAA had an opinion on this topic, it would have no more validity than another opinion based on physics and logic. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Im7shannon(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:34:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: > An alternator with a built in regulator is probably > MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . . > More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However, > internal regulators generally do not include ov protection > to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition. > Hi Bob If I use an internally regulated alternator and incorporate your your crowbar OV protector (which I already have) into the field lead as shown on your drawing would this be a good setup? Or would I be better off finding a non regulated one and use the "Ford" regulator? Most of the vendors I have gotten price quotes from are selling internally regulated units. Thanks in advance Kevin Shannon -9A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: External Power Receptical- RV6A
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Does any one see any problems with mounting a Piper style external power receptacle in the bottom of the cowl over to one side? I'm looking for a spot where the wire run will be short which rules out inside the cabin. The backside (of the receptacle) is too big, I feel the closest spot to put it inside would be behind F604. BTY, this thing is heavy! Probably not for those trying to build a light, simple aerobatic ship. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator Questions
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions Thread-Index: AcCKxkOMoeDNPI0cQyq37+XV7DYZogAHWzGg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Bob, Since we're on the subject, I just ordered the Niagara nippondenso 40-amp alternator kit. Seems to be a good value. After 75 hours my Van's alternator is showing signs of pending failure (whine in the intercom which increases/decreases in pitch whenever power is changed, becomes louder when I turn things on like lights, goes away completely when I pull the alternator breaker.) It is my understanding that the internal regulator is set to a higher voltage on the Niagara, but they claim that it shouldn't have an effect on battery life. Is this true? Looking over your drawing on OV protection for externally regulated alternators, what diode is recommended for use with the solenoid setup? I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned the need for it. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying > -----Original Message----- > From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC [mailto:stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:58 AM > To: 'aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions > > > IFC" > > Bob, > > I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest > RV-6A (IFR, all > electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf > automotive unit with > an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection > unit. I'm > hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach > with external > regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the > possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator > regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation > community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the > following questions: > > 1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an > alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into > heavy rain effect > the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach? > 2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with > alternators > utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF) > better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any > inherent failure > modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach? > 3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external > regulators or against > internal regulators? > > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV (1730 hrs/7.75 Yrs) > E. Windsor, CT 06088 > WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com > Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
In a message dated 1/29/01 10:59:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes: << Harry- I am going to use the flag fast-ons. >> I guess I'm on the fence about using them now Ralph. You are no doubt correct about no fatigue failures in our lifetimes, especially at the rate of progress I am making lately while I struggle with the question of what fuses to use, what to do about power buses, where to mount both, etc., etc. Seems like I can't get off dead center lately on these issues. What did or do you plan to do in that area? Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
In a message dated 1/29/01 11:06:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes: << use some heavy duty heat shrink as strain relief? Have you been to Bob's seminar? >> That's what I would definitely do if I decide to use them. In fact maybe a double layer with the outer one longer and overlapping the inner would provide adequate strain relief. Or does that sound like overkill to you? No, and I wish now that I had. I have his book but it hasn't been much help in solving the question of what fuses, etc. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
For this application what would you recommend for over voltage protection? Dennis Thomas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator Questions
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions Thread-Index: AcCKxkOMoeDNPI0cQyq37+XV7DYZogAHWzGgAAjeArAFrom: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> Ooops...meant "internally", not "externally"... Bob > Looking over your drawing on OV protection for externally regulated > alternators, what diode is recommended for use with the > solenoid setup? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2001
From: Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Alternator Questions
> > >I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this >scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is >to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this >that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a >runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned >the need for it. FWIW, *I* have seen OV conditions in automobiles. Had one drive in one day that had nearly every bulb in the vehicle burned out (that was our first clue) and the acid was boiling out of the battery (our second clue). Nice little ND 60 Amp alternator with internal regulator. Swapped out with a Rebuilt and changed DOZENS of bulbs and they were on their way. Bob Steward, A&P IA Birmingham, AL AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: UMA instrument lighting
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Bill, look in Aircraft Spruce's catalog, it is probably under lighting, panel, or some such thing. They sandwich between the panel and the instrument, cost about 35 bucks per instrument, plus a total of one small inverter for a similar cost to run them. They run on 400hz ac, which this little inverter makes. UMA also makes various panel instruments, I'm sure they have a web site. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Medsker" <bmedsker(at)grm.net> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: UMA instrument lighting > Who, what and where is UMA?? Thanks, Bill Medsker > > I wanted to give UMA a positive plug regarding their electroluminescent > instrument lighting and their customer service. These light units fit ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2001
From: Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator
Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your regulator with OV protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it seems that the sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main distribution bus) is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct? If so, my intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring circuit (I'll let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the fact that I'd dare use somebody else's product, does this make sense? Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Search
Date: Jan 30, 2001
Hello, I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection; redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a 3lb., 9 amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or at least close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available? If you know the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions. Richard Swiderski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions > > > > >Bob, > > > > I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all > >electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit with > >an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm > >hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with external > >regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the > >possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator > >regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation > >community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the > >following questions: > > > >1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an > >alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain effect > >the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach? > > No > > > >2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators > >utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF) > >better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent failure > >modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach? > > An alternator with a built in regulator is probably > MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . . > More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However, > internal regulators generally do not include ov protection > to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition. > > > >3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against > >internal regulators? > > If the FAA had an opinion on this topic, it would have no > more validity than another opinion based on physics and logic. > > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------------- > ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) > ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) > ( education" Albert Einstein ) > -------------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2001
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
One of my customers brought me a 1990 Lumina earlier this month with an intermittent stalling and rough running problem. The alternator had over volted. It distroyed the ECM (engine computer) and the TPS (throttle position sensor) in the process. That was a VERY expensive alternator. Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage Boca Raton, Fl. > >I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this > >scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is > >to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this > >that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a > >runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned > >the need for it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Wig-Wag Flasher
For Charlie (I tried e-mailing you directly but I kept getting a delivery error.) Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig Wag flasher circuits. It's a simple design using the very common 555 timer. Jim Weir of RST Engineering also has a couple of landing light flasher designs but are a little more complex. I've tested Bob's flasher for many continuous hours with no problem. If you think I can help you with anything, let me know. Good Luck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W Livingston" <jliving(at)erinet.com>
Subject: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
Date: Jan 31, 2001
Harry, Have you thought of putting a dab of clear silicone caulk in the end of the fast on. That should fix the fatique problem and allow you to use what you have. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping of flag style faston terminals In a message dated 1/29/01 10:59:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes: << Harry- I am going to use the flag fast-ons. >> I guess I'm on the fence about using them now Ralph. You are no doubt correct about no fatigue failures in our lifetimes, especially at the rate of progress I am making lately while I struggle with the question of what fuses to use, what to do about power buses, where to mount both, etc., etc. Seems like I can't get off dead center lately on these issues. What did or do you plan to do in that area? Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternator Question - Dual regulators
I have already purchased a 55 Amp ND alternator which is internally regulated. I also plan to have a Ford external regulator AND a Crowbar over voltage protector. I wanted the Ford external regulator because it can be adjusted to a particular voltage. Can I run the setup with both regulators operating or do I need to rewire the alternator to take the internal regulator out of the circuit? Charlie Brame RV-6A QB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net>
Subject: Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
Date: Jan 31, 2001
Hi all, I have had a little experience with this. Any of the silicone products that have an acetic acid component will cause electrical connections to corrode. Give it the sniff test, if it smells like vinegar then don't use it. Paul > Harry, > > Have you thought of putting a dab of clear silicone caulk in the end of > the fast on. That should fix the fatique problem and allow you to use what > you have. > > John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Question - Dual regulators
> >I have already purchased a 55 Amp ND alternator which is internally >regulated. I also plan to have a Ford external regulator AND a Crowbar >over voltage protector. I wanted the Ford external regulator because it >can be adjusted to a particular voltage. > >Can I run the setup with both regulators operating or do I need to >rewire the alternator to take the internal regulator out of the circuit? The internal regulator needs to be bypassed and the brushes rewired to take one brush to case ground and the other out to one of terminals on the back for wiring to your regulator. Unless you have some experience with this, I'd recommend you use the alternator as is and add the ov module and alternator disconnect relay to provide effective ov protection. You may find the existing regulator adequate as is. The ND alternator has potential for being a VERY long lived piece of machinery . . . inattention to details and/or in- experience with the modification could cost more than it benefits. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com>
Subject: Re: Wig-Wag Flasher
> >For Charlie >Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig >Wag flasher >circuits. Here are some of the features and benefits of the WigWag Solid State Controller that we designed and now have in production. 1. Improve safety by being seen and noticed. We have set the wigwag flash rate longer then automotive flashers so that the bulbs come up to full brightness. This means that you will be seen from a greater distance. The police car behind you with a fast flash rate does not need to be seen from miles away. The alternating WigWag pattern will significantly improve being recognized. We have been conditioned to notice movement and the flash at one wing tip followed by the flash at the other wing tip creates apparent motion. This apparent motion is most important when approaching another plane head on where without the wigwag pattern there is no apparent motion. 2. Additional safety. The WigWag has two 12 Volt power inputs that are redundant. Two fuses or circuit breakers are connected to the WigWag; one for the right light and one for the left light. If one of the wires to one of these bulbs fails and blows its circuit breaker or fuse, the WigWag controller continues to function and the other bulb remains operational. It would be sad to have two leading edge lights installed and land in the dark because the flasher circuit in the plane was not redundant. 3. Simple easy to install wiring. Two wires are connected to the master bus and one wire is connected to ground. Two wires are connected to the leading edge lights. Three wires are connected to the switches. The WigWag is assembled in a 2 by 2 by 5.25 inch aluminum case. Four #8 mounting holes are provided. 4. Reduced cost. Bulbs last longer and require less maintenance time because the WigWag includes a bulb filament warmer. Warm filaments are more ductile and less likely to break. Also, warm filaments reduce in-rush current which increases bulb life. 5. More reduced cost. The WigWag is controlled by switches that turn on functions by conducting only milli-amps to ground. Simple inexpensive switches can be used to turn on and off these functions. These functions are: Turn on the left leading edge light. Turn on the right leading edge light, Turn on the alternating WigWag pattern. Since just about any switch can handle millliamp current specifications, builders select a wide range of switches. This means that any switch you put on your panel can be used to command the WigWag and that means that you can operate the WigWag Solid State Controller with the same style switches used on the rest of your panel. Other WigWag circuit designs require: a. Two switches that can carry large currents, S700-2-10, $20 each = $40 total. b. A component that generates the alternating flash function, This is typically a Galls Flasher, FS-033, for $49.99 or an LM555 timer circuit costing about $10 plus 2 relays, S704-1 ($10 each) about $30 total. c. Plus a proto-typing circuit board, proto-typing case and other misc components - $10 to $15. Grand Total $80 to $100 There are many more features. To view an Adobe Acrobat data sheet for the WigWag Solid State Controller including pictures go to: http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ The WigWag Solid State Controller is now available with four to six week delivery for $90 plus $6 shipping and handling. To place an order send a check to Bob Haan at 14270 SW Koven Court, Tigard, OR 97224. Send us an email stating that your check is in the mail and we will assign you a position in the queue before your check arrives. Safe flying and easy rewarding building, Bob Bob Haan http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ bhaan(at)easystreet.com Portland, OR RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Search
> >Hello, > > I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection; >redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a 3lb., 9 >amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or at least >close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available? If you know >the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions. > >Richard Swiderski Find any NIPON-DIENSO alternator. The smallest will be in the 35-40 amp range and weigh about 6 pounds. You'll have to poke around in the junk yards and just measure for the smallest (put a tape around the circumference and measure the length of the body). An alternator overhaul shop could probably tell you what cars have the smaller ND alternators on them. They're easy to identify as there's an "ND" logo embossed in the sheet metal of the rear cover. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >One of my customers brought me a 1990 Lumina earlier this month with an >intermittent stalling and rough running problem. The alternator had over volted. >It distroyed the ECM (engine computer) and the TPS (throttle position sensor) in >the process. That was a VERY expensive alternator. >Charlie Kuss >RV-8A fuselage >Boca Raton, Fl. > >> >I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this >> >scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is >> >to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this >> >that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a >> >runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned >> >the need for it. I've seen dozens of cars over the years coming down the road at me at night with very bright, almost blue-white headlights (this was years before the modern high pressure gas discharge lamps on current luxury cars). Internal regulators DO fail in a variety of ways including over-voltage just like external regulators do. If the contactor fails, then all you have is a shut down alternator, not a toasted electrical system. This is why you need the e-bus system and an alternate feed path so that such an event is ho-hum . . . see chapter 17 of the 'Connection if you haven't already read it. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator
> >Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your regulator with OV >protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it seems that the >sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main distribution bus) >is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct? If so, my >intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring circuit (I'll >let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the fact that I'd dare >use somebody else's product, does this make sense? > >Mike Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job, the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it. Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time. Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those "extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits. You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this tells you that the ov system is still working. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wig-Wag Flasher
> > >> >>For Charlie >>Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig >>Wag flasher >>circuits. > >Here are some of the features and benefits of the WigWag Solid State >Controller that we designed and now have in production. > >Other WigWag circuit designs require: > >a. Two switches that can carry large currents, S700-2-10, $20 each = $40 total. Not quite accurate. Option 3 at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/aec_ww.pdf requires only one S700-2-10, the other switch is a $5 S700-1-3 for a total of $25 for switches. >b. A component that generates the alternating flash function, This is >typically a Galls Flasher, FS-033, for $49.99 or an LM555 timer circuit >costing about $10 plus 2 relays, S704-1 ($10 each) about $30 total. Option 3 uses only one relay which is our S704-1. The components for assembling the flasher and packaging it is less than $10. >c. Plus a proto-typing circuit board, proto-typing case and other misc >components - $10 to $15. > >Grand Total $80 to $100 Total for option 3 is closer to $45 . . . Timing can be set to any flash rate the builder desires by adjusting the resistor on the 555 timer circuit. Measurements made on our bench with the circuit shown allow the bulb to reach better than 90% of full intensity. Further, the flash rate is fast enough that the bulb does not cool off between pulses so inrush for each illumination cycle of the lamp is only 150 to 200% of running current, not the 400-700% typical of a cold turn-on. Option 3 is also redundant to the extent that the ONLY single failure that takes out both lamp circuits is a short to ground on the landing light circuit that would pop both fuses supplying the two lamps. This is a VERY rare condition. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2001
Subject: RE: ND alt.
'75-'79 Honda Civics use 35 amp or 45 amp(w/AC) ND alt. with an external reg. '80-'83 Honda Civics use 50 amp ND alt. with an external reg. All of the above have an external fan also. Honda started using internal reg. and internal fans in '84, and it looks like the lowest amp. alt with an internal reg. is 55. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: RE: ND alt.
> >'75-'79 Honda Civics use 35 amp or 45 amp(w/AC) ND alt. with an external reg. >'80-'83 Honda Civics use 50 amp ND alt. with an external reg. >All of the above have an external fan also. >Honda started using internal reg. and internal fans in '84, and it looks like >the lowest amp. alt with an internal reg. is 55. > Try to find alternators with internal fans if possible. The B&C L-40 is a current production part purchased new from ND . . . don't know it's application in the field. I'll see if I can find out. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >For this application what would you recommend for over voltage protection? >Dennis Thomas For alternators with built in regulators see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf another example can be found at http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z14.pdf If your alternator uses an external regulator, Figure Z-2 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/eratta/R9Z_0400.pdf is and exemplar methodology. All of the systems above use the crowbar OV module now offered by B&C from a catalog/order page on our website at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >In a message dated 1/30/01 8:34:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, >nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: > >> An alternator with a built in regulator is probably >> MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . . >> More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However, >> internal regulators generally do not include ov protection >> to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition. >> > >Hi Bob >If I use an internally regulated alternator and incorporate your your crowbar >OV protector (which I already have) into the field lead as shown on your >drawing would this be a good setup? Or would I be better off finding a non >regulated one and use the "Ford" regulator? Most of the vendors I have gotten >price quotes from are selling internally regulated units. The small wire going into the back of an alternator with an internal regulator is NOT a field lead. That wire is a simple control voltage to tell the regulator to turn ON or turn OFF. If the regulator fails, then it stops listening to commands from the outside and nothing can be done to corral the runaway alternator short of opening its power output lead as shown in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2001
Subject: Fuse Holders
Question for Bob or the other electric Gurus out there. Is there anything about the old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in. glass fuses that precludes their use in my panel instead of circuit breakers or the ATC fuse blocks that I know Bob highly recommends? For several reasons, but primarily accessability, amount of panel space required, weight, cost and I have concluded the panel mount holders will work best for me. Unless of course there is some reason that I am unaware of that they are unsuitable for use in aircraft applications. All thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Holders
Date: Feb 01, 2001
>old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in. > glass fuses Old fashioned is right. Use the newer blades. Hal Kempthorne RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > > >Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your regulator with OV > >protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it seems that the > >sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main distribution bus) > >is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct? If so, my > >intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring circuit (I'll > >let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the fact that I'd dare > >use somebody else's product, does this make sense? > > > >Mike > > Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish > buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for > OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job, > the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you > would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it. > > Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows > the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does > on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've > already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time. > Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those > "extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits. > You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by > clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this > tells you that the ov system is still working. > > Bob . . . Thanks Bob....good info, leading to the following..... If I leave off the ptt, and I leave off the light, then there's one line (pin 3) left out of the three I'm asking about. You started your message by saying hook up all three, then gave me enough info to decide myself about two of them. Can you tell me just a little more about this third line? If I read correctly, this grouping of three lines really just measures the low voltage situation that occurs after the OV trips (as evidenced by the 3 amp "LO V WARN" fuse at the bus). If so, and having decided to sacrifice the first two, I'm not sure I need the third either? If I do still need it, can I save a fuse by paralleling it off the alt field breaker? That is, what's the failure mode of this pin 3. (And yes, in this case, saving one fuse makes a big difference in my design). Sorry to be dense. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Holders
> >Question for Bob or the other electric Gurus out there. Is there anything >about the old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in. >glass fuses that precludes their use in my panel instead of circuit breakers >or the ATC fuse blocks that I know Bob highly recommends? For several >reasons, but primarily accessability, . . . why do you NEED access from the cockpit? If your system is correctly configured then the ONLY reason for a fuse to open is that something is BROKE . . . no point in putting in a new fuse just to have it pop again. > amount of panel space required, Fuse blocks need not and should not use any panel space . . . > weight, 20 fuse holders and the bus bar you need to solder to them are heavier than a 20-slot fuse block . . . > >cost The HKP fuseholder is about $1.50 each making a 20 fuse array cost $30 and there's no bus bar. You have to fabricate and attach your own plus fabricate the fuse panel. A 20 slot fuse block mounts with 4 screws and is ready to wire. >and I have concluded the panel mount holders will work best for me. >Unless of course there is some reason that I am unaware of that they are >unsuitable for use in aircraft applications. All thoughts or suggestions >will be appreciated. The glass-cartridge fuse holder WAS used on all light aircraft when electrical systems began to show up in late 40's They are high surface area, low pressure contact devices that proved troublesome after years in service. Modern blade contact fuses are low area, very high pressure contacts that resist corrosion. They're a much superior to the cartridge fuse in an aircraft environment. As graduates of government approved, padded cockpit schools of aircraft systems management we've been led to believe there are pilot duties to be learned for dealing with breakers on the panel. We've also fallen victim to the hysteria of dark-and-stormy- night stories that appear monthly in about every journal that targets pilots of little airplanes. If you can't sign up to the idea that your airplane is NEVER going to suffer an electrical emergency respectfully suggest we need to talk. Many aspects of electrical systems in certified light aircraft are DESIGNED to fail in ways that place a pilot at a disadvantage. Your airplane can and should be better than anything sprinkled with bureaucratic holy water. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Question
>I am building an RV-4. How do I size the rest of the wiring that I am >going to need (landing lights, trim, radios, flaps, etc.)? > >Regards, > >David Vaughan Look up and know the current requirements for each of your planned electrical accessories. Make up a spread sheet either on paper or in your computer that lists electrical loads for each of the gizmos you plan to install. You need to have separate columns for type of operation. They might have headers like Taxi/Day, Taxi/Night, Take/Off and Climb, Cruise Day, Cruise Night, Cruise IFR, and Battery Only Ops. See what the total continuous draw is for installed equipment under each of these operating scenarios. This is called an electrical load analysis. It's not difficult. You need to look up information in the books that come with your radios or ask questions of folks who have the same stuff installed. This is the FIRST step in designing your ship's electrical system for it helps you size the alternator, size the battery and plan for getting on the ground comfortably when something breaks. Have you made a list of all the electrical goodies you plan to install? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James K. Glindemann" <jglind(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
Date: Feb 03, 2001
Hi bob just to throw another spanner in the works. Do you know if there are significant modifications required to get the Nippon Denso Alternators running at 28 volts? I am planning on this voltage due to the aquisition of most of my avionics at the right price utilizing this voltage. I can get a Bosch 28 volt alternator or a prestolite but they are both significantly heavier and the ND is such a cute little thing. Regards James K Glindemann ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W4PPN(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2001
Subject: Re: Fuse Holders
Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an order? Howard Cochran 1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Holders
> >Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web >address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an >order? > >Howard Cochran >1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project Sure, check out the catalog page at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html Look in the section on Circuit Protection for FH series fuse blocks. Click on of those links to view the product. The catalog page is also an order form. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >Hi bob > >just to throw another spanner in the works. > >Do you know if there are significant modifications required to get the >Nippon Denso Alternators running at 28 volts? I am planning on this voltage >due to the aquisition of most of my avionics at the right price utilizing >this voltage. I can get a Bosch 28 volt alternator or a prestolite but they >are both significantly heavier and the ND is such a cute little thing. > >Regards > >James K Glindemann ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage and full output. However, the field must be limited to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It just so happens that I designed such a critter for B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at 316.283.8000 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator
> > >"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > >> >> > >> >Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your regulator with OV >> >protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it seems that the >> >sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main distribution bus) >> >is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct? If so, my >> >intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring circuit (I'll >> >let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the fact that I'd dare >> >use somebody else's product, does this make sense? >> > >> >Mike >> >> Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish >> buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for >> OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job, >> the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you >> would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it. >> >> Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows >> the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does >> on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've >> already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time. >> Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those >> "extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits. >> You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by >> clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this >> tells you that the ov system is still working. >> >> Bob . . . > >Thanks Bob....good info, leading to the following..... If I leave off the ptt, and I leave off the >light, then there's one line (pin 3) left out of the three I'm asking about. You started your message >by saying hook up all three, then gave me enough info to decide myself about two of them. Can you tell >me just a little more about this third line? If I read correctly, this grouping of three lines really >just measures the low voltage situation that occurs after the OV trips (as evidenced by the 3 amp "LO V >WARN" fuse at the bus). If so, and having decided to sacrifice the first two, I'm not sure I need the >third either? If I do still need it, can I save a fuse by paralleling it off the alt field breaker? >That is, what's the failure mode of this pin 3. (And yes, in this case, saving one fuse makes a big >difference in my design). > >Sorry to be dense. > >Mike The third lead is bus sensing for the whole regulator. If you've used up all your fuses to the extent that plus or minus one fuse is a problem, you need a bigger fuseholder. I try to design every new installation with at least 25% spares on a bus. You don't want to chop up a perfectly good installation by running out of protected distribution slots at some time in the future. If you are ALL used up and can't provide the spares. Tie the bus sense lead to any other 5A or less feeder to a relatively low criticality item . . . like one of the engine instruments fuses. If you don't hook this lead up as shown, the regulator does not run. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Switch
>Bob, how are things? Attached is a picture of the little vacuum switch that >I hooked up in my plane. Out of the box, it was adjusted to trip on >increasing vacuum of around 3.5inHg, and on decreasing vacuum it tripped at >about 3inHg. I'll wait until I run the engine for adjustment, if necessary. >I am going to restrict the line leading to it for isolating against a >diaphram failure. > >Also, a while back I made a bunch of phone calls trying to get to the bottom >of the Nippon Dienso internally regulated alternator question, specifically, >what sort of failure modes does the darn thing have. I finally found >someone, don't have his name here, but I do have it at work, who seemed to >know something about the guts. I told him I wanted to know where the >brushes got their juice, from within or from the control line. He insisted >that if one disconnects the control line (or whatever it is called), the >thing will stop producing juice in all cases. I cross examined him a bit, >and mostly convinced myself that he knew what he was talking about. The >best thing will be to measure the current on the line, as you had suggested. >It sure seems like it should be easier to scrounge up info on these crazy >things. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN (-8 F now) I think he's all wet. Further, one should consider aftermarket regulators that are drop-in replacements for the factory originals. I visited the Well Electronics facility in Fon du Lac, WI a number of years back and visited with their engineers. More often than not, there are subtle differences between their aftermarket products and the OEM device they're replacing. Until you can get your hands on a schematic of the device you know you have, be skeptical. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse Holders
Howard: Try: http://www.aeroelectric.com/ Dave Aronson RV4 W4PPN(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web > address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an > order? > > Howard Cochran > 1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Nippondenso Alternator
.com> ><<< > Try to find alternators with internal fans if possible. > The B&C L-40 is a current production part purchased > new from ND . . . don't know it's application in the > field. I'll see if I can find out.>>> > > >A quick search showed that these guys have a 38 Amp Nippondenso alternator >available, I also know that you can order one through your local John Deere >Dealer (Part Number RE72915). I bought the L-40 from B&C, it is made from >the same alternator as the Deere part. I have had them side by side. The >one thing that you get with the B&C is the special spacer and bracket so >that you can bolt it directly to the Lycoming. As well as the external >regulator. Lest folks mis-understand, the external regulator doesn't come WITH the L-40. The L-40 is MODIFIED by B&C to remove the internal regulator and bring wiring provisions out the back for using an external regulator. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Toggle switch
I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not have to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price and features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the picture if they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Clay Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Toggle switch
At 03:20 PM 2/3/01 -03-30, you wrote: > >I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any >good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not have >to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price and >features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the picture if >they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments >would be appreciated. >Thanks, >Clay Smith The bat handles on switches in B&C's catalog are bright nickel plated as are the exposed surfaces of the bushings. I'm still looking for a decent source of plastic booties that would enable a builder (1) to color code the switches and (2) mix/match bat-handle finishes without serious regard for finished appearance of the panel. No luck yet. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Nippondenso Alternator
.com> >Yup, I know. I have one setting on the bench. > >I was ready to bolt up the Deere version of the alternator, and decided >against it. The closer I get to flying this thing, the harder it is to go >with product that is not coming from an established outfit. If it's a factory original ND alternator, I'd have NO problems with bolting it to an airplane. Compared to the 1960's certified junk flying on most P/C/B/M airplanes, the ND is a modern miracle. >I have worked on the ND alternator, but more so on the 120 amp version. I >personally have no concerns about people flying with that alternator. > >But- > >I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin stall >was obviously caused by a tractor alternator... Really? Surely you jest . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
From: John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" , "zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: ACS Cable Tension Meter
Does anyone know how to use the Aircraft Spruce Cable Tension meter. Darn thing has no instructions.... -- John W. Tarabocchia 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html Airframe 100% Complete... Installing Wire and Engine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Nippondenso Alternator.com>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > >Yup, I know. I have one setting on the bench. > > > >I was ready to bolt up the Deere version of the alternator, and decided > >against it. The closer I get to flying this thing, the harder it is to go > >with product that is not coming from an established outfit. > > If it's a factory original ND alternator, I'd have NO problems > with bolting it to an airplane. Compared to the 1960's certified > junk flying on most P/C/B/M airplanes, the ND is a modern > miracle. > > >I have worked on the ND alternator, but more so on the 120 amp version. I > >personally have no concerns about people flying with that alternator. > > > >But- > > > >I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin stall > >was obviously caused by a tractor alternator... > > Really? Surely you jest . . . > > Bob . . . > I wonder if he has the same concerns about his tractor carb.... Charlie flying Lycosaur RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2001
Subject: Re: Toggle switch
From: Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me into going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the other way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so to hide the holes. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************************************** On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:20:15 -0330 Clay Smith writes: > > > I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any > good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not > have > to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price > and > features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the > picture if > they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments > would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Clay Smith > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Toggle switch
--- Don R Jordan wrote: > > > They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me > into > going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the > other > way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up > so to hide the holes. Good tip. Thanks. RE: "Standard" or not - what's the difference? Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Panel Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring Change
A few weeks ago I published a diagram that speaks to a run-on problem exhibited by starters with permanent magnet motors. These motors generate considerable power as a permanent magnet generator as they spin down after the starter button is released. This output power can cause the pinion gear solenoid to dwell in the ENGAGED position for up to several seconds. The obvious solution was to drive the starter solenoid/ contactor coil directly trough the start push button or switch . . . cars do it, why not airplanes? You can find an article I wrote on the characteristics of modern starter solenoids and contactors at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf In this piece I talk about why these two-stage devices have very high current draw in the first few milliseconds after you push the starter button. Unfortunately, this quite normal characteristic is hard on all but the most robust of starter switches and pushbuttons. To mitigate this problem, B&C has recommended (and I agree) that a separate, intermittent duty starter contactor be used to accommodate the special operating characteristics of modern starter engagement solenoids. Power is fed to the solenoid by way of a short jumper between the main power terminal for the starter and the solenoid winding terminal (usually a push on spade). B&C ships their starters with this jumper installed. Our wiring diagrams show the jumper and use of an external starter contactor for cockpit control of starter engagement. A problem arises when a permanent magnet motor is substituted for the wound-field motor. These motors are pretty efficient generators during the few seconds it takes for the motor to spin down after the engine starts. The voltage that comes back OUT of these motors tends to keep the engagement solenoid energized for several seconds after the pilot releases the starter button. B&C starters do no do this . . . they still use wound field motors for reasons that we won't discuss here. Only permanent magnet products have this problem. In the published drawing at http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z14.pdf you'll see where inordinate stresses on the starter switch have been mitigated by a small "boost" relay (our S704-1 is suitable for this application). I received the following e-mail concerning some questions about drawing z14. >Bob, > >In a recent posting you noted the following: > >"This change is to accommodate a problem unique to Sky-Tec and other >permanent magnet motor starters. Voltage generated by the motor as >it spins down causes a delayed disengagement of the pinion gear >if the starter is wired like B&C and others with wound field motors. >Adding the relay in the system as shown in Figure Z-14 takes care >of this problem" > >I have two questions; > >1) Do you know the magnitude of the delay time in disengagement incurred in >this situation and is there a known or probable impact on mechanical stress >or breakage of starter, pinion, ring gear, or mounting hardware if not re-wired? I've not personally witness the delay. I've read discussions on the effect in numerous forums not the least of which were home built aircraft groups . . . pilots on the Grumman Gang wrote of delayed dis-engagements lasting 5 seconds or more. >2) In the 10-28-00 revision of Fig Z-14 is shown a diode between ground and >the starter-run relay terminal connected to the starter solenoid. This >appears to me to handle the collapsing magnetic field of the solenoid coil >upon release of the ignition key from the start position. However, >I don't see a diode across the coil of the starter-run relay the >to do the same to minimize arcing at ignition switch >contacts. Is it possible that the diode shown was actually intended to be >across the starter-run relay coil instead of as it is shown. If not, then would it not >be beneficial to add another diode (not shown) across the starter-run coil as >is consistently shown for the battery contactor coil, aux battery contactor, >and alternator contactor? The energy stored on the S704-1 relay (or any similar) is so low that it does not represent a threat to the starter switch. The relay energizes with about 100 milliamperes of coil current where the smallest inrush of even the recommended intermittant duty contactors (like our S702-1) is on the order of 4-5 amps. One could add a diode on that coil. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articls/s704inst.jpg for how we do it when that relay is used as an alternator disconnect relay for PM alternators. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: starter question
>Hi Bob, > >I purchased your book several years ago and it has been excellent - I refer to it often and not just for aircraft applications. I have a quick question which I hope you will have time to answer.. > >I own an antique (50's vintage) Spanish Bucker biplane, with a Spanish Tigre 150 motor. In a box of parts that came with the airplane is an electric starter (no Bucker owner that I can find has anything but a crank on theirs, and there is no electrical system in the airplane .. yet) I have the starter installed but the problem is that it cranks very slowly on a 12V battery. Feeling lucky, I tried throwing another 12V battery in series and it cranked nicely. Is there a way to determine whether this starter motor really is supposed to be for a 24V system? There is absolutely no documentation or otherwise that has led me to be able to figure this out... > >Your response would be greatly appreciated - I only tested this thing for about 2 seconds and am hesitant to install the whole system now without really being sure (and yes, both batteries were fresh) > >Thanks! > > >---------- >Scott R. Hess > Scott, it's relatively safe to assume that it's a 24 volt starter. Even if it's not rated at 24v, your experiment suggest that you'd need 24v to use it. I know of several 24v aircraft flying with 12v starters. Starters with wound fields are very tolerant of "too much" battery when cranking. Years ago, I used to jump start 6v cars from a 12v car with no ill effects. If the increased voltage spins the engine faster and shortens the time for successful starting then it may be that 2x battery is LESS stressful on the starter than interminable cranking on 1x battery voltage. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Annual Weekend Seminar in Ft. Worth
The AeroElectric's annual seminar on aircraft electrical systems in George and Becki's facilities near Ft. Worth has been scheduled for the weekend of March 24/25, 2000. A reservation form has been posted at http://www.aeroelectric.com/FtWorth.html Since I no longer subscribe to any list servers other than the aeroelectric-list, I would appreciate it if folks reading this would forward this notice to other list servers where readers would have an interest in this program. Thanks! Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 04, 2001
Subject: Fuse block location and conduit wireing
I have read ALOT of 'lectric Bob's works and am now convinced that I will probably use fuses rather than breakers for my RV9. The next question is WHERE do RV builders put the fuse blocks so they are easily accessable? Also, I am concerned about the heat in the wing conduit. The wings must get hot inside, and the conduit even more so. Is this a concern? Should I drill some "air holes" in the conduit for heat dissipation? Kim Nicholas RV9 Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W Livingston" <jliving(at)erinet.com>
Subject: Toggle switch w no anti rotation hole.
Date: Feb 04, 2001
-----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don R Jordan Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch --> Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so to hide the holes. You don't have to drill thoughs ugly holes. I'm using .040 in thick Al with a little temper. I simply drilled the toggle switch hole (as small as possible) and punched a anti rotation tab in from the back. I think I used a square cut contrete nail. Worked great. I think if you want down to be off the tabs go on the bottom. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net>
Subject: Re: starter question
Date: Feb 04, 2001
While I'm no expert, I am 51 years old and have driven several cars with 6 volt systems. My 1950 Chevy Panel truck even had a starter on the floor by the gas pedal. And I have jump started them from 12 volt batteries. They do crank a lot faster, but mechanics later told me horror stories of the 6 volt batteries blowing up with serious personal injuries after being connected to 12 volt sources. After that, I started taking the run-down 6 volt batteries to the gas station to get them charged up. You might want to be careful here. Jeff Davidson -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter question > >>Hi Bob, >> >>I purchased your book several years ago and it has been excellent - I refer to it often and not just for aircraft applications. I have a quick question which I hope you will have time to answer.. >> >>I own an antique (50's vintage) Spanish Bucker biplane, with a Spanish Tigre 150 motor. In a box of parts that came with the airplane is an electric starter (no Bucker owner that I can find has anything but a crank on theirs, and there is no electrical system in the airplane .. yet) I have the starter installed but the problem is that it cranks very slowly on a 12V battery. Feeling lucky, I tried throwing another 12V battery in series and it cranked nicely. Is there a way to determine whether this starter motor really is supposed to be for a 24V system? There is absolutely no documentation or otherwise that has led me to be able to figure this out... >> >>Your response would be greatly appreciated - I only tested this thing for about 2 seconds and am hesitant to install the whole system now without really being sure (and yes, both batteries were fresh) >> >>Thanks! >> >> >>---------- >>Scott R. Hess >> > > > Scott, it's relatively safe to assume that it's a 24 volt starter. > Even if it's not rated at 24v, your experiment suggest that you'd > need 24v to use it. > > I know of several 24v aircraft flying with 12v starters. Starters > with wound fields are very tolerant of "too much" battery when > cranking. Years ago, I used to jump start 6v cars from a 12v > car with no ill effects. If the increased voltage spins the engine > faster and shortens the time for successful starting then it > may be that 2x battery is LESS stressful on the starter than > interminable cranking on 1x battery voltage. > > > Bob . . . > -------------------------------------------------- > ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) > ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) > ( education" Albert Einstein ) > -------------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net>
Subject: master relay
Date: Feb 04, 2001
Any problems mounting a master relay "upside down"? (I need to do this to get the premade wires to reach.) Wayne Williams RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: master relay
> >Any problems mounting a master relay "upside down"? >(I need to do this to get the premade wires to reach.) > >Wayne Williams >RV-8A You may mount the battery contactor (master relay) in ANY position that suits you best . . . all the ol' saws about in-flight acceleration forces doing bad things to contactors is bogus. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: starter question
> >While I'm no expert, I am 51 years old and have driven several cars with 6 >volt systems. My 1950 Chevy Panel truck even had a starter on the floor by >the gas pedal. And I have jump started them from 12 volt batteries. They >do crank a lot faster, but mechanics later told me horror stories of the 6 >volt batteries blowing up with serious personal injuries after being >connected to 12 volt sources. After that, I started taking the run-down 6 >volt batteries to the gas station to get them charged up. You might want to >be careful here. Heard all those stories too . . . but his question here is about running what MIGHT be a 12v starter on a 24v system . . . to which the answer was, "based on observed performance, it may well BE a 24v starter. Even if it is rated for 12v, cranking from a 24v battery does not pose a serious risk to the starter as long as the engine is tuned up and starts quickly." Battery explosions used to occur even when a battery was being charged by NORMAL charging voltage . . . sparks adjacent to the out-gassing battery was the trigger. Sealed RG batteries don't outgas in a way that presents this kind of hazard. Besides, it's easy to make the last connection AWAY from potential hazards. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Toggle switch w no anti rotation hole.
> > >--> Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so >to hide the holes. > > >You don't have to drill thoughs ugly holes. I'm using .040 in thick Al with >a little temper. I simply drilled the toggle switch hole (as small as >possible) and punched a anti rotation tab in from the back. I think I used >a square cut contrete nail. Worked great. I think if you want down to be >off the tabs go on the bottom. > >John Another technique I've used with great success is to turn the washer around so that the anti-rotation tab doesn't point toward the panel (you do this on the BACKSIDE of the panel) or grind the anti-rotation tab off. Then bond the washer to the panel with super-glue (Locktite 380 works really good for this too . . . ) If your panel is thick enough (.062 or better) you can drill .02 to .03 deep blind holes in the back side and grind the anti-rotation tab down so that it doesn't bottom out in the shallow hole. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse block location and conduit wireing
> > >Also, I am concerned about the heat in the wing conduit. The wings must get >hot inside, and the conduit even more so. Is this a concern? Should I >drill some "air holes" in the conduit for heat dissipation? No cooling is needed for plastic conduit used anywhere except forward of the firewall. It gets hot inside when sitting on the ram under summer sun but it still doesn't put PVC conduit at risk. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Toggle switch
> > >--- Don R Jordan wrote: >> >> >> They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me >> into >> going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the >> other >> way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up >> so to hide the holes. > >Good tip. Thanks. Be careful about turning ALL the switches over. The fully symmetrical switches will allow this but if you have a spring loaded function to one side only (like -5 and -50 switches) they need to be mounted the RIGHT way for the application. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring Change
Date: Feb 05, 2001
Bob, Now I am confused..... I have wired my plane as per figure Z-8. I have used a starter contactor on the factory provided SkyTec starter. What do I need to do? Figure Z-8 shows some connection (jumper?) on the solenoid of the starter. What is this? Is this all I need to do? From your post..... > Power is fed to the > solenoid by way of a short jumper between the main power > terminal for the starter and the solenoid winding terminal > (usually a push on spade). > > B&C ships their starters with this jumper installed. Our > wiring diagrams show the jumper and use of an external starter > contactor for cockpit control of starter engagement. I am assuming that the S704-1 is not needed in my application. Thanks, Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)JohnDeere.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/03/01
Date: Feb 05, 2001
<<< > >I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin stall > >was obviously caused by a tractor alternator... > > Really? Surely you jest . . . > > Bob . . . > I wonder if he has the same concerns about his tractor carb.... Charlie flying Lycosaur RV-4 >>> Yeah, my Allis Chalmers WD (built in the 50's I think) has virtually the same carb that Charlie is flying with. I do like the fuel injection system on my IO-360. On the tractor I can just jump up there and tap on the side to keep the float from sticking. Tough to do at 12,000 ft. Regards- Norm Muzzy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2001
From: Sandra Dixon & Jan de Jong <SJ(at)however.demon.nl>
Subject: All Electric - preliminary questions
The most likely means of propulsion for my Europa XS will be the Rotax 914 with an electrically driven CS prop. The supplied PM alternator delivers 19 A (15 A at 13 V). Battery location is probably some 5 feet behind the firewall. There are two electrical fuel pumps (no mechanical pump). Pitch trim is electrically driven. Turn coordinator and wing leveler are electrically driven. Even disregarding the rest of the panel (where I live only day-VFR is allowed for homebuilts anyway) a very reliable electrical system is obviously needed. There seems to be no point in entertaining any notion of a vacuum system. I am contemplating diagram Z8 of the Connection with an open mind, realising that all architectures are compromises, and have a few questions. 1. Parallel alternators. Can the auxiliary PM alternator be online while the main one is? If so, how about assuring that the right one of the two OV protections operates and not the other? Assuming that PM voltage regulators use an internal voltage reference and not the battery, maybe the fact that the guilty voltage regulator supplies all the current can be used? Is there a (somewhat likely) voltage regulator + OV module failure mode where it draws excessive current instead of going offline? 2. Parallel batteries. Is it useful to have two batteries in parallel without selection? Or - is a battery failure mode where it draws excessive current very unlikely? And: is the other failure mode where the battery removes itself from the circuit not necessarily always a slow aging process? 3. Battery isolation. Z8 compromises a bit on emergency battery isolation because the battery contactor must be bypassed. I wonder whether there exists a heavy duty switch that is very good at being always closed (a wire equivalent: low resistance, no corrosion) and can be reliably opened once in a lifetime - mechanically operated from a red handle. May not be worth the weight and effort unless it can safely take over battery isolation duties from the battery contactor too.. Jan de Jong Europa #461 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2001
From: Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Subject: Re:Flap motor current
Hi There, does anyone know how much current the Vansaircraft electric flap motor uses? I'm told its Toyota rear window motor/ gear box thingy. I'm trying to find a switch to install in the coloum and not use a current amplifier. Thanks Bruce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James K. Glindemann" <jglind(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
Date: Feb 07, 2001
>>Regards >> >>James K Glindemann > > ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with > slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage > and full output. However, the field must be limited > to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It > just so happens that I designed such a critter for > B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at > 316.283.8000 > > Bob . . can you elaborate on the need to limit field voltage ? is this to limit output current to less than would be applicable for the same unit @ 12v. If this is so do you know by what amount the the current rating must de-rated. Thank you James K Glindemann. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SCOTT COMPTON" <scompton(at)Prodigy.net>
Subject: aeroelectric list
Date: Feb 07, 2001
please start sending this list dailey. thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator; Voltage Decrease
>Bob: > >My alternator voltage has dropped to 11.8 volts for some unknown reason. I have the voltage regulator I bought from you B&C LR3B/14. Voltage had been 13.8 volt when systems were new. I have 40 amp alternator, 12 volt, 25 amp Concord battery 1 year old. Normal system loading is 20-30 amps with boost pump, landing lights radios and strobes. I turned strobes, landing lights off reducing load to 5-10 amps and voltage remains at 11.8-12.0 volts. What gives? Should I adjust the voltage regulator to attempt to raise the voltage or is this a symptom of something about to fail? > >Regards, >Bob Hargrave Not ABOUT to fail, but HAS FAILED. Does the low voltage warning light flash? Have you conducted the trouble shooting procedure outlined in the notes of Appendix Z? Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Questions
> >>>Regards >>> >>>James K Glindemann >> >> ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with >> slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage >> and full output. However, the field must be limited >> to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It >> just so happens that I designed such a critter for >> B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at >> 316.283.8000 >> >> Bob . . > >can you elaborate on the need to limit field voltage ? is this to limit >output current to less than would be applicable for the same unit @ 12v. If >this is so do you know by what amount the the current rating must de-rated. > >Thank you > >James K Glindemann. Not output current rather max current/voltage to the field. A 14v 60A alternator will produce 28v at 60A, you just need to spin it a tad faster (no problem on belt driven Lycoming installations, the stock pulleys are okay) AND limit field voltage to 15 volts . . . this takes a SPECIAL regulator available from B&C. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org>
Date: Feb 08, 2001
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/01/01
Bob, I'm finishing the airframe on my Long EZ. I built in two channels about 2" high and 5/8" deep in each side wall of the fuse. These I lined with aluminum foil before closing. They run from behind the instrument panel to the firewall. I have the battery cables (battery up front) installed in one side. (could be removed). I'd like your opinion on where I should run the rest of the wiring to avoid as much interference as possible. I'm installing the Vision 1000 monitor, strobes/nav, com. antenna in each winglet (only need 1) and then the usual solenoids for starter, master, alternator wires, etc. I'm using one mag and one LSE. Your thoughts please. Terry Lamp Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: engine monitoring system
I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based engine monitoring system. I already have conventional gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low oil pressure light. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: engine monitoring system
Date: Feb 09, 2001
Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually measures the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge. If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need an amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems this is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the micro to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F. If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose. > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Larkin [mailto:aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:43 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system > > > > > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low > oil pressure light. > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2001
From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
Subject: Ammeter Shunt
My ammeter shunt is connected directly to the starter relay, which places it at 12 volts. How does one protect it against being accidentally shorted to ground? It is a big lump of metal connected essentially directly to the battery. Even if the 4 terminals could be covered there is still the body of it. Is it possible to use a huge piece of shrink tube over the whole thing? Does shrink tube come that big? How about fabricating a cover over the whole thing? I don't want to connect it in the battery ground lead because then the ammeter has to have capacity to read the full starter current, which makes it inaccurate at the normal much lower currents. I hope somebody has already solved this. TIA Jim Bean ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: engine monitoring system
Read this for thermocouples: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf contains full tables for type K EGT probes. I used the chips, but a simple temp sensor where the wires connect to the AD (or mux) would do just as well (if you want to spend an AD channel on that). I used old technology to build my engine monitor: 80C35 CPU, AD817 16 channel mux/8bit A/D and a 4 lines x 20 chars mono LED backlit LCD, displaying all engine parameters, fuel flow, RPM, etc. at the same time. Problem with using existing aircraft sensors, is to obtain their calibration curves, so I went with linear precompensated sensors (Motorola MPX5--- series pressure sensors and AD22100 and TMP35/36/37 temp sensors). Running a 2-rotor Mazda 13-B engine I'm displaying the following: Oil press, Water press, fuel press (2), oil temps (2), water temp, voltage, EGT (2), RPM, mixture (from oxygen sensor), fuel flow, fuel used, left tank, right tank and MAP. Finn Andrew Larkin wrote: > > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low > oil pressure light. > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2001
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/09/01
Andy, Autometer make a device called "Trialert". It is a black box that allows you to hook up 3 gauges to it and it has an output for an alarm signal. Check it out on their web site. www.autometer.com It costs about $ 70.00 from racing parts distributors. I have installed one in my Murphy Rebel along with their gauges. Good luck. Rick D. AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > * > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 02/09/01: 3 > > From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system > > > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low > oil pressure light. > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2001
From: Bill Izard <bill(at)izard.co.nz>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs -
02/09/01 Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information Regards Bill Izard New Zealand > >Andy, > Autometer make a device called "Trialert". It is a black box that > allows you to >hook up 3 gauges to it and it has an output for an alarm signal. Check it >out on >their web site. www.autometer.com It costs about $ 70.00 from racing parts >distributors. I have installed one in my Murphy Rebel along with their gauges. >Good luck. >Rick D. > >AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > > > * > > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Fri 02/09/01: 3 > > > > From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system > > > > > > > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based > > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional > > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the > > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? > > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also > > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil > > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low > > oil pressure light. > > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > ------------------------- Izard Industries Ltd P.O.Box 477 Masterton New Zealand The Izard Family http://mysite.xtra.co.nz/~izard/page1.html Phone 64 6 3788862 Fax 64 6 3788649 Mobile 025 463 254 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2001
From: Bill Izard <bill(at)izard.co.nz>
Subject: Re: engine monitoring system
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information Regards Bill Izard New Zealand > >Read this for thermocouples: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf >contains full tables for type K EGT probes. > >I used the chips, but a simple temp sensor where the wires connect to the >AD (or >mux) would do just as well (if you want to spend an AD channel on that). > >I used old technology to build my engine monitor: 80C35 CPU, AD817 16 channel >mux/8bit A/D and a 4 lines x 20 chars mono LED backlit LCD, displaying all >engine parameters, fuel flow, RPM, etc. at the same time. Problem with using >existing aircraft sensors, is to obtain their calibration curves, so I >went with >linear precompensated sensors (Motorola MPX5--- series pressure sensors and >AD22100 and TMP35/36/37 temp sensors). > >Running a 2-rotor Mazda 13-B engine I'm displaying the following: >Oil press, Water press, fuel press (2), oil temps (2), water temp, >voltage, EGT >(2), RPM, mixture (from oxygen sensor), fuel flow, fuel used, left tank, right >tank and MAP. > >Finn > >Andrew Larkin wrote: > > > > > > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based > > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional > > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the > > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges? > > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also > > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil > > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low > > oil pressure light. > > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > >Shop online without a credit card >http://www.rocketcash.com >RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > > ------------------------- Izard Industries Ltd P.O.Box 477 Masterton New Zealand The Izard Family http://mysite.xtra.co.nz/~izard/page1.html Phone 64 6 3788862 Fax 64 6 3788649 Mobile 025 463 254 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
Subject: Wiring Diagram Z-8 (Aeorelectric Connection 4/00 Edition)
From: ulf3(at)juno.com
Bob, I have three questions: 1) Why are'nt you using a fusible link (18AWG) or other form of protection between the battery contactor and the battery bus on Fig. Z-8 ? (p Z-16 of 4/00 edition) 2) What is the purpose of the fusible link (20AWG) betwen the essential bus and the battery bus? (does'nt the 7A fuse on the Batt. bus provide the needed protection? 3) Where does the IN4005 diode on the PM Alternator control relay (shown in a photo on your web site) attach on the Z-8 diagram? Thanks in advance for clarifying these points for me. Ulrich La Fosse CH801 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: engine monitoring system
> >Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to >accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually measures >the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the >engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge. > >If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need an >amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the >processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the >gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems this >is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For >this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a >micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree >resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is >analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the micro >to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F. > >If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then >you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose. My favorite thermocouple conditioner is the Analog Devices AD596. You can download the data sheet at: http://products.analog.com/products/info.asp?product=AD596 This device contains cold-junction compensation, thermocouple linearization and gain such that the chip's output is 10mv per degree C. The AD596 is for type J thermocouple wire, the AD597 is optimized for type K wire. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: fusible links and ovm
>Thanks for the help. The 12awg wire is from the rectifier/regulator >associated with the alternator on my Rotax 618. The contactor is on the >rear of the firewall and I guess that means I should be using an in-line >fuse based on your comments. >Thanks very much for the testing procedure for the OVM >Regards >Bill Okay, you can use a fusible link here. For the limited output of the 618's alternator, a piece of 18AWG wire inside the silicone-over-fiberglas sleeving would do the trick nicely. I'd drop the feeder down to 14AWG so that it will go into a blue butt splice which is more compatible with your 18AWG fusible link. Bob .. . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Ammeter Shunt
> >My ammeter shunt is connected directly to the starter relay, which >places it at 12 volts. How does one protect it against being >accidentally shorted to ground? It is a big lump of metal connected >essentially directly to the battery. Even if the 4 terminals could be >covered there is still the body of it. Ammeter shunts have been around almost since the first generators and batteries were stuck on airplanes. It's the very BEST way to get an accurate measurement of a large current REMOTE from the display instrument. And yes, they generally ride at 14 or 28v above airframe ground. >Is it possible to use a huge piece of shrink tube over the whole thing? >Does shrink tube come that big? How about fabricating a cover over >the whole thing? You can do this but I wouldn't worry about it. I've had builders worry about long exposed bus bars across the back of their instrument panels. I suggest they pick up whatever hammers and saws they might need to physically cause some hazardous object to come into contact with the exposed conductor and craw under the instrument panel for a looksee. The goal is to design hazardous conditions out of the installation, then you don't have to worry about protecting against them. >I don't want to connect it in the battery ground lead because then the >ammeter has to have capacity to read the full starter current, which >makes it inaccurate at the normal much lower currents. I hope somebody >has already solved this. Sure have . . . in hundreds of thousands of certified airplanes that have a lot of similarly exposed, heavy current conductors. 99.9% of problems with wiring come from worn out materials and/or poor workmanship aided and abetted by equally poor maintenance. It's very easy to design out potential failures associated with an exposed ammeter shunt or any other difficult to enclose conductors. BTW, don't forget to fuse the itty bitty wires leading away from the shunt . . . Either 5A fuses or 24AWG fusible links driving 20AWG leadwires . . . the later would be my personal choice. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: engine monitoring system
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information Regards Bill Izard New Zealand Bill, You need to unsubscribe yourself by logging onto the signon/signoff page at: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ However, may I suggest that if your Tailwind is going to have and electrical system, much of what's published on the AeroElectric-List is germane to your airplane. Further, should you have a question about and electrical/avionics problem, there's a very high probability that you can get the answer right here. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: EGT/CHT display
Date: Feb 11, 2001
I currently have an EI EGT/OAT/CHT gauge and a selector switch to pick the cylinder to display. I had thoughts of using four Radio Shack multimeters in place of the EI gauge to eliminate the cylinder selector switch and have a toggle switch that would pick EGT or CHT's. They make some multimeters which are the size of the LED display chip and have an input for a temperature probe(typically room temps I would guess). When I attempt to measure the voltage generated by the probes I realize that the sensitivity of the standard Fluke meter isn't small enough. Is my idea reasonable? I wouldn't necessarily need to display numbers that are exact temps, just have an idea of what range is normal (like analog EGT gauges). Kevin Lane N3773 RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system > > > > >Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to > >accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually measures > >the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the > >engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge. > > > >If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need an > >amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the > >processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the > >gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems this > >is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For > >this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a > >micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree > >resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is > >analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the micro > >to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F. > > > >If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then > >you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose. > > My favorite thermocouple conditioner is the Analog Devices > AD596. You can download the data sheet at: > > http://products.analog.com/products/info.asp?product=AD596 > > This device contains cold-junction compensation, thermocouple > linearization and gain such that the chip's output is 10mv > per degree C. The AD596 is for type J thermocouple wire, the > AD597 is optimized for type K wire. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2001
From: Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>)
Subject: Announcement
2/9/2001 Fellow Pilots and Builders: EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards. The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing. When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.) If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via e-mail, and mail your check or CC number. At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on when I receive your payment. To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year, thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price. Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information. www.riteangle.com Elbie Mendenhall President EM Aviation, LLC P NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie WA 98606 360-260-0772 www.riteangle.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address
--- ulf3(at)juno.com wrote: > > Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address? > > I have tried several times to reach them by phone and left messages > but have had no reply. Thanks ORNDORFFG(at)AOL.COM They're busy folks. Keep trying. - Mike ===== Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com) Austin, TX, USA RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved) EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew, PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut! Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 2001
Subject: Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address
orndorffg(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: niagara alternator question
Date: Feb 13, 2001
Thread-Topic: niagara alternator question Thread-Index: AcCV4iiyQ6CTBKuqSnK6Mnbze4PFvA==
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
I have installed the Niagara alternator and have noticed that in cruise my voltages vary quite a bit. It will jump around between 14.1 and 14.7 volts, and it seems a bit erratic. Is this a problem that can be corrected with an internally regulated alternator? Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 2001
Subject: Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address
In a message dated 2/12/01 6:29:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ulf3(at)juno.com writes: << Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address? >> I think OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM is still good. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, finish kit stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2001
From: John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" , "zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: O-200 Woes
Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked, fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working. Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad. Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft, where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it started up. Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. -- John W. Tarabocchia 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html Airframe 100% Complete... Installing Wire and Engine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2001
From: Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: O-200 Woes
John, You really should pull the engine apart and clean it all out. Instead of buying a complete gasket set, you can buy the handfull of gaskets and seals that you will need at much less cost. Since you bought the engine at Wentworth, they may be willing to spring for the cost of the gaskets. Metal in the oil will just circulate to the bearings where it will imbed and the metal will act like a lathe tool cutting bit on your crank and wear it right out!!! Since you bought the engine at Wentworth, does this mean you live near the Twin Cities? Chris Bobka EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2001
From: John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: O-200 Woes
Christian Bobka wrote: > > John, > > You really should pull the engine apart and clean it all out. Instead of > buying a complete gasket set, you can buy the handfull of gaskets and seals > that you will need at much less cost. Since you bought the engine at > Wentworth, they may be willing to spring for the cost of the gaskets. > Metal in the oil will just circulate to the bearings where it will imbed > and the metal will act like a lathe tool cutting bit on your crank and wear > it right out!!! > > Since you bought the engine at Wentworth, does this mean you live near the > Twin Cities? > > Chris Bobka > EAA Tech Counselor > Hey Chris, Thanks for your reply.....Thus far I have only talked to my mechanic, and I have gotten 7 responses from other listers. All the suggestions are very similar to yours. Some suggested at least clean the metal into the sump. My mechanic suggested the same thing. The motor never actually got to run. At this point I don't think the particles went any further than the case. I think that removing all the accessories and rinsing the gear case out should get it all. Then I will see what my mechanic thinks. If there is any evidence of the particles having gone further, I will just bite the bullet and tear it all down and overhaul it. I figure if I'm going to go to the trouble of taking it off the mount and disassemble part of it, then it would be foolish to put it back together as is. Again Thank you for your suggestion, it sounds like a good assessment. -- John W. Tarabocchia 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html Airframe 100% Complete... Installing Wire and Engine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2001
From: old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: O-200 Woes
sorry about you mis-fourtune....the ONLY WAY you will get the metal completely out of that engine is to tear it down...remember, just a tinnnnnny little bit of loose steel will really mess up an engine...FAST!...and it could ruin your whole day if you happen to be flying it over water or trees, or whatever when it decides to let go...and it eventually will if you don't dis-semble it and clean it properly...some people have tried to clean an engine out with solvent and by turning the engine over with the starter...all that does is distrubute the metal all over the engine...sorry I can't come up with a better fix....don't ask me how I know... John Tarabocchia wrote: > > Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked, > fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to > turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull > starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't > been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working. > Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud > bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that > the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I > realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the > likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on > the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from > turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I > found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground > down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the > starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad. > > Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft, > where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts > required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some > ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the > engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly > cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it > started up. > > Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. > > -- > > John W. Tarabocchia > > 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html > > Airframe 100% Complete... > Installing Wire and Engine... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address
> >In a message dated 2/12/01 6:29:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ulf3(at)juno.com >writes: > ><< Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address? >> > >I think OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM is still good. > >Harry Crosby >Pleasanton, California >RV-6, finish kit stuff That's the address I have for him . . . Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: niagara alternator question
> >I have installed the Niagara alternator and have noticed that in cruise >my voltages vary quite a bit. It will jump around between 14.1 and 14.7 >volts, and it seems a bit erratic. Is this a problem that can be >corrected with an internally regulated alternator? > >Bob Japundza >RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying What regulator are you using with the alternator? There are regulators and then there are REGULATORS. Further, there are installation problems that can confuse even the best of regulators and cause the kind of instability you describe. What is the timing of the "jump"? Does it look like it steps from one voltage to the next or does it wander around? Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Message sent to AeroElectric-List Digest.
>Bob, > >I'm finishing the airframe on my Long EZ. I built in two channels about 2" high >and 5/8" deep in each side wall of the fuse. These I lined with aluminum foil >before closing. They run from behind the instrument panel to the firewall. I >have the battery cables (battery up front) installed in one side. (could be >removed). >I'd like your opinion on where I should run the rest of the wiring to avoid as >much interference as possible. >I'm installing the Vision 1000 monitor, strobes/nav, com. antenna in each >winglet (only need 1) and then the usual solenoids for starter, master, >alternator wires, etc. I'm using one mag and one LSE. > >Your thoughts please. > >Terry Lamp >Ohio None of those extra-ordinary shielding and/or locating techinques are necessary. They only add weight and labor to your project. If there are shielded wires shown on the wiring diagram for a particular product, then by all means use them. Otherwise, wires may be bundled together with little cause for concern. If you have a problem, it's more likely to be a ground loop problem than anything due to lack of "shielding" or proximity of wires. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DThomas773(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 2001
Subject: Re: O-200 Woes
A few years back a low time engine ingested the drive gear from a poorly adapted alternator. We tried cleaning by repeatedly flushing it out with solvent. We started the engine and flew for about 40 minutes, began losing oil pressure and generating heat. It cost me a major O/H. Dennis Thomas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: niagara alternator question
Date: Feb 14, 2001
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: niagara alternator question Thread-Index: AcCWlNDMn0dQgvp2QeagJQwshWOB7QAACNcg
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
It's an internally regulated Nippondenso. People have suggested that I check the grounding of the alternator which I suspect could be the culprit...but the fluctuations are random, so it is just wandering. Bob > What regulator are you using with the alternator? There are > regulators and then there are REGULATORS. Further, there are > installation problems that can confuse even the best of regulators > and cause the kind of instability you describe. What is the > timing of the "jump"? Does it look like it steps from one > voltage to the next or does it wander around? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Diodes IFR with all-electric panel
>Dear Mr. Nuckolls: > > I am trying to finalize electrical designs for a Lancair Super ES, and am planning to more or less adopt your design for an all-electric airplane, using the BD8 alternator. I do have some questions, however, one trivial, and the other more complex. > > The trivial question involves your use of diodes between busses. The silicon diodes will have about a 0.7V drop across them, so if you're pushing, say, 20 amps across it, you'll dissipate about 15 W in the diode. This seems like a pretty significant power penalty. Isn't there a better way to do this? (I can't think of one, but you're the expert . . . !) > You may have too much load on the essential bus. You should be able to get the continuous e-bus loading to less than 4 amps. You need to be able to fly out a full load of fuel on one fully charged battery. If your normal ops (alternator working) loads are greater, then the power lost in the diode is trivial. When the alternator is off line, the diode isn't in the circuit so the losses go to zero. Just be sure that with a failed engine driven power source, you can keep truly essential goodies running for duration of fuel with the battery you've chosen to carry along with you. > The more complex question involves IFR flight with an all-electric panel. If I have an electric horizon, and an all-electric DG-type display from an electronic compass system (the new RDG display in the TruTrak autopilot system), is this sufficient to satisfy the regs (minimum equip. for IFR)? There will be a whiskey compass somewhere around, and the usual pitot-static instruments (airspeed, VSI, altimeter). Seems to me that there is good redundancy in the electrical system itself, and when I flew IFR with vacuum gyro's, I didn't have backups for those, so the all-electric system would seem to be just as good, if not better, given the lousy record of vacuum systems. > I think the regs speak to "gyroscopic" instruments which would probably rule out the RDG display . . . however, you and I know that it's entirely adequate. I'd go ahead with it and just don't make a big deal of it. If somebody asks you can say "yeah, got this whippy electronic heading indicator that a whole lot more accurate and reliable than a vacuum instrument." and see where they take it from there. Odds are that if you don't make a point of mentioning it, nobody else will either. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring Diagram Z-8 (Aeorelectric
Connection 4/00 Edition) > > >Bob, > >I have three questions: > >1) Why are'nt you using a fusible link (18AWG) or other form of >protection between the battery contactor and the battery bus on Fig. Z-8 >? (p Z-16 of 4/00 edition) The battery bus is located right AT THE BATTERY. Short feeders (6" or less) don't require separate protection because (1) like a fusible link, they don't represent a large smoke/fire hazard and (2) being short and relatively open to inspection, they don't have a high probability of fault. >2) What is the purpose of the fusible link (20AWG) betwen the essential >bus and the battery bus? (does'nt the 7A fuse on the Batt. bus >provide the needed protection? You need to protect a wire from ALL sources of overload. That wire has a potential source from BOTH ends. I used a fusible link at the e-bus end to avoid using up fuse slot on the fuse block . . . obviously, you could do that in lieu of the link, a link would be okay at the battery end as well. If you've got the spare fuse slots, use them instead. If you're running short, use links. >3) Where does the IN4005 diode on the PM Alternator control relay (shown >in a photo on your web site) attach on the Z-8 diagram? The anode (non banded end of the diode) goes to the same terminal on the relay as the black (-) lead from the OVM. The cathode (banded end) goes to the same relay terminal as the red/yel (+) lead of the OVM. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com>
Subject: Unfinished RV-8 for sale
I have a partially completed RV-8 for sale. Wings are completed (includes the strobes) Empennage is completed Fuselage - drilled, primed and ready to be riveted I have not ordered the finish kit. For sale for $9,950 firm. After having attempted to get my tail dragger sign off, I have realized that I am a much better nose dragger pilot and I do not want to tempt fate. I can be contacted at gary.rush(at)west.sun.com. I am located in Carlsbad, CA. Thanks, Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Conversion
> >Bob, > >I have a NiponDenso 40amp alternator that I would like to convert for use on >my Cozy. I have a B&C regulator and would like to know how to modify the >Nippon alternator to bypass the built in regulator. I have the regulator >out of the alternator and it has three terminals in addition to two mounting >holes (one of which appears to ground the regulator) and a socket for >external connection with a couple of spade terminals arranged in a T. The >two terminals on either side of the socket connect to the brush carrier when >the regulator is installed. Measuring the resistance between terminals it >would appear that neither of the terminals that connect to the brush carrier >are directly connected to either of the spade terminals. Are any of the >others so that I could connect a wire from one side of the brush carrier to >it? Can I connect a short wire from the other side of the brush carrier to >one of the mounting holes thereby grounding it to the case? It seems I need >the regulator in place to support one side of the brush carrier so I cant >just remove it and connect the brushes to ground and external terminal. The modification calls for opening the regulator and gutting it. Jumper wires are added internally to bring the free terminal of the brush-holder out to ALL 3 of the fast-on spades. The brush holder needs to be modified to disconnect the other brush from the alternator's b-lead terminal and ground it instead. B&C machines some of the parts to allow installation of a threaded stand off and longer screw to accomplish this task. I don't have any other data on exactly how this is done as it was not one of my tasks for B&C. >I would very much appreciate your help, and you have my permission to post >this message and your reply on the Cozy newsletter if you feel it >appropriate and it would be helpful to others. No problem. This might be a good time to remind Cozy-list readers that I've had to scale back on the number of list-servers I service . . . the aeroelectric-list at Matronics.com is the only one I monitor now. The list is growing and I think it will become an excellent venue for electrical systems discussions as they tend to be generic to all aircraft. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: switch question
>I have your aeroelectric connection book that suggests that I use an >off-start/on switch for the right mag and a off/on/start for the left >mag. I have wired my RV-6 IAW your figure Z-1. Note 2 states that the >switches should be a Microswitch p/n 2TL1-5. Those switches are now available from B&C as the S700-2-5 toggle switch . . . MUCH less expensive than Microswitch parts. See the website catalog at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html >I have been searching for a 2TL1-5 Microswith for over 3 years. I have >checked the B&C website catalog, and none of their switches seem to be >the right kind. Any idea where I can buy one of these switches? If you want Microswitch parts, they can be ordered from their various distributors like Newark, Allied Electronics, etc. who all have website catalogs and order systems. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping solderless connectors
>Bob : I just read your "Anatomy of a good solderless terminal connection". >My question is- when using the ratcheting type crimpers sold by B+C do you >need to crimp the connector twice as explained towards the end of that >article or is that only suggested when using the "low cost alternative" >crimpers? Thanks John Field The tool now sold by B&C is a one-shot-does-it-all crimper. The double crimp is needed only with the hardware/automotive store tools. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Questions
> >> >> Bob, >> >> I need a firewall ground kit for the GlaStar I am building. A 24 tab on >> each side of the firewall should be enough. What is the price of the kit >> with two 24 tab blocks? >> B&C offers any combo of ground blocks you want. I suspect that your airplane would be fine with a single 24 on the cockpit side would suffice. If you find that you NEED to add a bunch of grounds on the engine side, you can always add the ground block . . . it just bolts on. Start with a single 24 and see how it goes. >> Will the BCT-1 tool crimp the very small pins that are found on the Apollo >> SL-30 navcom and the Garmin 340 audio panel? Will it work for the center >> pins on BNC connectors? Will the DSE-1 extraction tool work on the these >> small pins? the BCT-1 is for sheet metal pins only like the standard D-subs, Molex, Mate-n-Locks, etc as illustrated on my website. The radios you mention probably come with the machined pins which require the RCT-3 crimper . . . that tool will install both the standard and high density machined d-sub pins. The DSE-1 is for standard density pins only. It takes a smaller tool for the high-density. I'm trying to source the smaller tool and get it added to B&C's catalog. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Power Distribution Scheme
>Dear Mr. Nuckolls: > >You were kind enough to speak with my partner, Don Herzstein this >morning about the power distribution system we are planning for our Cozy >Mk IV with an IO 360 engine. I have attached my circuit diagram for the >system for any comments you would be kind enough to make. > >Several comments; > >1. We have two of Klaus' electronic ignitions and really do want the >redundancy. No problem . .. just tie a second battery on the system with it's own battery master switch and contactor . . . >2. Were planning to use two 12 AH SLA batteries (in parallel for >starting) but they didn't have the cranking power and we are replacing >them with unit(s) which have better starting output. A pair of 17's is your best bet. Check out these two sites. Powersonic: PS-12180 http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm This same battery is made by lots of other folks as well. >3. We will probably use two of the same battery for parallel >applicaions although with the isolation it is probably not necessary. No "isolation" beyond the opening of the aux battery contactor during alternator out operations is necessary or advisable. >4. Will monitor each battery (either on bus or isolated) with a >battery condition meter but will have to manually put a battery on the >bus to charge. (You convinced me I don't want one of your high powered >Beachcraft isolation diodes at $47,000 per unit). No "monitoring" necessary. If your bus voltage is 14.2 to 14.6 volts then the batteries are happy. If bus voltage drops below 13.0 then the batteries are at-risk for discharge. Go to plan-B for alternator out operations. New battery in main, move main to aux and pitch the aux battery every year to insure freshness and critical capacity. This is a SIMPLE concept that offers reliablity unheard of in the spam cans . . . No extra pilot or mechanic's duties. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Questions
>Bob, I'm in the throes of deciding what alternator to order and I'm leaning >toward using a ND with internal regulator. If I go this route, I will use >your wiring instructions in your "OV PROTECTION FOR BUILT-IN REGUALTORS" PG >1. > >Looking at the above schematic, I noticed there are several symbols with >which I'm not familiar - W1, S1, K1 etc. Whatt'ya mean by these? Those are reference designators that allow you to tie a schematic component to a bill of materials. For example: K1 S701-1 Contactor, 12V, Continuous Duty (Battery Master) S1 S700-1-3 Switch, Toggle, SPDT (Landing Lights) etc. etc. >Also, on the same schematic, the master/alternator switch wiring indicates >that when the switch is on, terminals 2 & 3 and 5 & 6 are connected. If >this is a standard 2-3 toggle switch, wouldn't this put the toggle bat in >the down or "off" position? I need to comb though the examples and illustrations to make sure the terminal numbering is valid. The numbers originally referred to the Microswitch convention and I'm not sure that every example in the book is covered when the lower cost switches from B&C are used. I'm planning a major overhaul of Appendix Z on revision 10 to try and comb out all of the ambiguities. The worst case is that the upper and lower wires on the back of a switch may have to swap positions . . . pretty easy to diagnose and implement. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com>
Subject: Power Budgeting
Bob, I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V". My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM. What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way, at idle, how much does the amperage vary? Doug -- Doug INFOequipt,Inc. dougc(at)infoequipt.com http://www.infoequipt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com>
Subject: Power Budgeting
Bob, I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V". My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM. What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way, at idle, how much does the amperage vary? Doug -- Doug INFOequipt,Inc. dougc(at)infoequipt.com http://www.infoequipt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David W. Thomas" <dthomas(at)compumise.com>
Subject: Re: Power Budgeting
Date: Feb 14, 2001
According to the Installation Manual that came with my 912 UL (page 25) you can only expect the alternator to put out 100 W at 2000 RPM and maintain 12 + volts. Any more and the voltage gets below battery voltage (i.e at 2000 RPM with a 150 W load you will only get 10.2 volts.) At 4000 RPM you can draw 227 W and still have 12.8 volts. Dave Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Corarito" <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power Budgeting > > Bob, > > I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that > will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator > performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V". > > My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the > math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM. > > What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way, > at idle, how much does the amperage vary? > > Doug > > -- > > > Doug > > > INFOequipt,Inc. > dougc(at)infoequipt.com > http://www.infoequipt.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: conduit in a Glastar?
>I'm finally getting to plan my electrical system and would like to >replace two 10'+ lengths of #2 wire in my GlaStar with a single length >inside a conduit as you recommend for LongEZ builders. There's only a minimal benefit for doing this in a composite airplane and no benefits in an airplane with metalic structure. The rational on composite canard pushers is that since you can make good use of a conduit for physically running wires the length of the airplane, you might as well make it do double duty by being a return path (ground conductor) as well. >Is there a specific copper conduit that you can recommend? > >I find the 1/2" Cu plumbing pipe to have more cross sectional area than >needed and it's every bit as heavy as the #2 and too stiff. For your airplane, I'd stay with the pair of 2AWG wires routed together. I presume these go to the battery behind the seat. Run the (-) lead to a firewall ground stud and the (+) lead to the starter contactor on the forward side of the firewall Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------- ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. ) ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal ) ( education" Albert Einstein ) -------------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Breaker
First let me commend you on your book, The AeroElectric Connection. Its combination of explanation of electrical system theory and practical knowledge make it a must have for any home airplane builder. Thank you sir. I'm pleased that you find the work useful! When it came close to time to start putting wires in my RV-8, I bought Van's wiring kit, figuring it would be a good way to get off ground zero. Their scheme puts fuse protection in the form of either switch circuit breakers or circuit breakers, on a switch console by the front pilot's right arm. I had decided to replace most of these per your suggestion of automotive type fuse blocks, and toggle switches, but worked myself into a conundrum as to what to do with their 35A circuit breaker in the #8 wire from the alternator. I recommend tying the alternators power output (commonly refered to as the "b-lead") directly to the starter contactor on the firewall via an in-line fuse and not bring the noisiest wire in the airplane into the cockpit. I was about to run it 'backwards' through one of the Normal Bus fuses, thereby feeding the Normal Bus, when I ran into a problem in that the yellow Fast On wire terminals I got from AeroElectric won't go on this #8 wire. This wouldn't have worked anyhow. You need to rate b-lead protection at least 20% greater than alternator output . . . a 60A alternator will put out 70+ amps when it's cold. I presume your alternator is at LEAST a 35A machine . . . and if Vans provided a 35A breaker to go with it, then you'll have a breaker DESIGNED to nuisance trip just like the b-lead breakers in tens of thousands of spam-cans. In the process of deciding to go back to Van's 35A circuit breaker, I began wondering what good the circuit breaker was doing on the cockpit end of the alternator's output wire. Have since decided its function is to protect the alternator's output wire, since if it shorts to ground the main source of juice will be from the battery rather than the alternator. The source of energy that will burn the b-lead is the BATTERY. An alternator is incapable of delivering large fault currents . . . the machine's magnetics simply won't allow it. The b-lead protection is most likely going to open in response to shorted diodes in the alternator with the second most probable cause being a b-lead feeder shorted to ground. If you don't bring this wire through the firewall, then the probability of this event goes down sharply. I prefer the in-line fuses like those sold on our website catalog. They're easy to install and if the fuse ever opens, it will be a result of a badly damaged and therefore disabled alternator. Is this correct? But after the 35A circuit breaker opens, the alternator will still be feeding pretty significant amount of energy to the short. You can dead short a fully fielded alternator and get only 20-30 percent more than its rated output and then only while it's cold. As the critter warms up, the output will go down. The alternator current goes through this 35A circuit breaker, over to the Normal Bus fuse block stud, and then another #8 wire goes to the Starter Relay battery terminal. So this scheme also leaves this wire from the fuse block to the Starter Relay unprotected. These wires generally don't require protection beyond careful installation and maintenance to make sure they don't rub on airframe and short out. Study the distribution diagrams in the back of the book along with the notes. Another thing I thought I would run by you is while looking for info on why Van's put the alternator circuit breaker where they did, I found their reasoning for providing separate switch circuit breakers for Strobe and Nav Lights, and also separate switch circuit breakers for Taxi and Landing lights. I had already decided to use your scheme for combining Strobes and Nav on one 2-3 switch, and Taxi and Landing lights on another. They say to put Strobes and Nav on separate circuits, so if you get into a condition like fog maybe, you can shut off the Strobes to keep them from blinding the pilot. A 2-3 switch? This would turn both on and off together. The two pole switch would allow you to power them from separate circuits but not control them separately. By using a 2-10 switch (progressive transfer of the two sides) you can have the first position bring on strobes and the second position bring on nav lights. Same thing with landing/taxi. Some builders put in a 2-10 switch and wire so that the first position is taxi and second position adds landing light. In any case, you need to install fuse blocks with enough slots to give every device in the airplane its own bus feed. I am going to stay with your combination scheme, since my main use will be Strobes in daylight to keep from getting run over. If I really screw up and get into a condition where the Strobes are blinding me, I'll shut everything off since in those conditions the only thing likely to keep somebody from running over me will be somebody's radar. Agreed Their reasoning on separate Landing and Taxi lights is that some times bulbs fail shorted. This will take out a common fuse, leaving no lights at all for landing. Again I'm staying with your combination scheme, since I think bulbs failing shorted is a rare event, or I may run the Taxi and Landing light circuits through their own fuses after the switch. I don't intend to fly at night, but if I screw up and get caught flying in the dark, and a shorted light bulb has taken out both Landing and Taxi lights, I can probably find a lighted runway. Never seen a bulb fail shorted . . . but I suppose it could happen . . . none the less, this shouldn't be an issue because protected circuits on fuse blocks are cheap. I try to build a new system with at least 20% spares on each bus for future additions. There's NO ECONOMY in having too few fuses. Bob . . .


November 13, 2000 - February 15, 2001

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-aa