AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-aa
November 13, 2000 - February 15, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | This is a test. Please Ignore... |
This is a test.
Please Ignore.
This is to test whether or not enclosures and MIME formatted text get
stripped out of the message correctly.
* Test.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Just checking to see if I'm inside a closed loop. . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------
( I have more respect for the fellow with a )
( single idea who gets there than for the )
( fellow with a thousand ideas who does )
( nothing.. )
( Thomas A. Edison )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com> |
Subject: | Re: Yak-List: New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Everything you need to know can be found at the following url:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
I just used the secure credit-card option. There is also a snail-mail
address for you old-fashioned types (i.e. back in the good old days when
folks wouldn't abscond with your credit card info) ;)
Jim Ivey
N46YK
Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
> and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
> clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
> messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
>
> As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
> program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
> message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
> include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
> accepted instead of bounced back.
>
> But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
> will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
> HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
> serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
> increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
>
> I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
> you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
> why.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying... |
Matt,
I think what you're doing is great for those of us flying and building Kolb
aircraft. You're probably saving Kolb a full time employee in tech support
just by providing the communication between builders. I know I have had a
half dozen questions answered here on the list and saved Kolb support a few
phone calls. You should forward this letter to Kolb, maybe they'd ante up,
too. It would be great PR for the TN Kolb a/c. Thanks a bunch, Matt!
Ken Broste
Building a Firestar
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> During this year's List Fund Raiser I have been receiving a number of
> very nice comments from members regarding what the Lists mean to them.
> I'm sure most everyone can echo one or more of the thoughts expressed
> below. Won't you take a moment to make a Contribution to support the
> continued operation and improvment of your Lists?
>
> A special 'thank you' to everyone that has made a contribution so far
> and for all of the wonderful and supportive comments I've received!
>
>
> To make a contribution with a credit card over an SSL Secure Web Site,
> please go to the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> or, to make a contribution with a person check, please mail it to:
>
> Matronics
> c/o Matt Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
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>
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>
> * Thanks for providing a quality product. -Bill C.
>
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H.
>
>
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>
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o. -Roger H.
>
> * I enjoy the pages and find them very helpful. -Noel G.
>
> * The "List" is a great place to both receive and exten help and ideas
for
> building and making flying safer. -Jack B.
>
>
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>
> * ...I believe this List will be a better value than the
ewsletter. -Roger T.
>
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>
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>
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>
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uilding. -Craig P.
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>
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>
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riends. -Fred H.
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>
> * Love both the List and the Search Engine. -Roy G.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
Subject: | Location for Goose neck lamp |
Hi,
Ref RV-6 - Has someone come up with a location for the goose neck lamp and
associated electronics that seems a "best location"? I'm waiting on a
shipment of instruments and would like to get this out of the way.
I remember a year or so ago that someone mentioned a location that keeps the
light out of the way until you need it, but I can't find it on the archives.
Thanks in advance,
Tom Barnes -6 all electric
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Location for Goose neck lamp |
>
>Hi,
>Ref RV-6 - Has someone come up with a location for the goose neck lamp and
>associated electronics that seems a "best location"? I'm waiting on a
>shipment of instruments and would like to get this out of the way.
>
>I remember a year or so ago that someone mentioned a location that keeps the
>light out of the way until you need it, but I can't find it on the archives.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Tom Barnes -6 all electric
Tom, I think yours is the FIRST message I've seen come
down on the new list-server . . . I guess I ought to
send you a door prize. Have you got a butane powered torch?
Need a soldering iron? I've got some discontinued overstock
I've been throwing into orders as they go out the door.
The first time I was aware of this light and its
utility was in a J-3 that had been fitted with
an electrical system. The light was mounted against
the cockpit wall to the left of the pilot's seat
such that the light could be made to "hover" right
above my lap. When not in use, it simply laid
against the cockpit wall.
When you get yours installed in a location you like,
I'd like to have a digital picture of the installation
to put up on the website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Subject: | Fig. Z-14, Sky-tek starter |
Bob,
1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for the
sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on
the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons?
2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is
this needed?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
bob
i have your 2-50 switch to use for boost pump and prime solinoid. can this be wired
so the center position is off?(i have already had a placard made for my switches
that shows this).
thanks
dave pierson
rv-6 606dp flying
rv-6 226dp(reserved) wiring and waiting for engine
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>bob
>i have your 2-50 switch to use for boost pump and prime solinoid. can this
>be wired so the center position is off?(i have already had a placard made
>for my switches that shows this).
>thanks
Hmmm . . . it's a very unique mechanism inside the -50 switch
that let's us keep OFF at the bottom. If you want off in the
middle, you need a 2-5 . . . on-off-(on)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List: 3" Adel Clamps |
>
>
>Everything you ever wanted to know about Adel Clamps can be found here
>including how to identify them.
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/adel.html
>
>Mike Nellis - RV-6 N699BM (res)
>Plainfield, IL
>Skinning the Wings
>http://mnellis.jnet.net/rv-6_page
>
> >
> > I would like to use 3" Adel clamps (or some thing similar) to attach my
> > engine fire extinguisher. The ones in the Spruce catalog page 115 appear
>to
> > be made of aluminum. I would rather use steel here. Notice how the price
> > jumps up $3 when they go from 2-7/8" to 3". Perhaps these are steel?
> >
> > Does any one have any good suggestions here?
> >
You'd have to call them and get somebody to read the
number off of the clamp to you. Unless they specifically
differentiate between steel and alum parts in the catalog
I wouldn't bet on there being a difference. I suspect the
jump is due to very low volume of the larger parts.
Check www.beuco.com and http://www.vargaair.com/ as possible
sources for large clamps. Also, consider making your own.
You can cut strips of steel and cover them with heatshrink . . .
(perhaps two layers) before bending to shape. The heatshrink
covered area can be too big initially . . . and trimmed
away as you figure out how long it needs to be.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Bob,
1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for the
sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on
the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons?
2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is
this needed?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
Subject: | Starter switch with Unison ignition |
Dear Listers:
Does anyone know if a regular type keyed magneto/ starter switch can be
used with a Vans engine equipped with the Unison electronic ignition? If
not, what modifications would be needed to allow it to work?
Thanks!
Wayne Williams
Danville, VA
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan & Patty Krueger <pndkrueg(at)gulfsurf.infi.net> |
Fellow builders:
Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from
the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same
hole in the firewall.
Thank you
Dan Krueger
RV-6A wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Part for Crowbar circuit |
Hi everybody,
Glad to find this list.
I am laying out the electical system and running wires on my Sportsman 2+2,
rotarty powered. I really appreciate the great information and opinions on
the Aeroelectric web site.
I want to build the crowbar overvoltage system but I am having trouble
finding one of the components. The schematic shows a MUS4991, wich is not a
good number. This is a bi-directional switch. I think I found the part no.
should be MBS4991. I have tried Digi-Key, Newark, and Mouser. Mouser shows
this part, with alternate part numbers of : NTE6403 and SK9120, but they do
not have any.
Does anybody know where these might be had or maybe knows of another part
that will work ?
Thanks,
Lonnie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: Part for Crowbar circuit |
RadioShack.com, catalog # 90-3156, Motorola MBS4991.
Finn
lonwood wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
> Glad to find this list.
> I am laying out the electical system and running wires on my Sportsman 2+2,
> rotarty powered. I really appreciate the great information and opinions on
> the Aeroelectric web site.
> I want to build the crowbar overvoltage system but I am having trouble
> finding one of the components. The schematic shows a MUS4991, wich is not a
> good number. This is a bi-directional switch. I think I found the part no.
> should be MBS4991. I have tried Digi-Key, Newark, and Mouser. Mouser shows
> this part, with alternate part numbers of : NTE6403 and SK9120, but they do
> not have any.
> Does anybody know where these might be had or maybe knows of another part
> that will work ?
> Thanks,
> Lonnie
>
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Part for Crowbar circuit |
Thank you Finn. Radio Shack shows them for only 34 cents apiece. Mouser
showed over $8 for the NTE6403.
Lonnie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald R. Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
I bundled them together & after 8 Hrs no problems...
Don Eaves
Cordova TN
RV6 Test Flying & Working Out Bugs -
Grinning So Big I Have to Turn Sideways To Get Through A Double Door.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan &
Patty Krueger
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: P leads
Fellow builders:
Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from
the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same
hole in the firewall.
Thank you
Dan Krueger
RV-6A wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
>Fellow builders:
>
>Is it okay to bundle the P leads / CHT&EGT sensor leads / "B" lead from
>the alt / and "F" lead to the alt together and pass them thru the same
>hole in the firewall.
>
>Thank you
>
>Dan Krueger
>RV-6A wiring
Sure. ESPECIALLY if you take care NOT to physically
ground the p-lead shields at the panel end of their
runs . . . only at the engine end. Use the shields to
PROVIDE ground for the individual magneto switches as
shown on many of our diagrams.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | SD-8 Installation |
I am installing my SD-8 as per Figure Z-8 on Page Z-16. A few questions.
Why is AWG 12 called for when the wire coming out of the SD-8 is only AWG 14
and the wire off the regulator that was provided by B&C appears even smaller
than that? Can I use AWG 14?
Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the firewall?
The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch.
The connectors that come with the SD-8 and regulator are very strange. It
appears that a special tool is needed to crimp them. Why do we need these
connectors? It seems like we are increasing the potential points of
failure. Is it OK to cut these out and just use butt splices and service
loops?
Ross Mickey
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: SD-8 Installation |
>
>I am installing my SD-8 as per Figure Z-8 on Page Z-16. A few questions.
>
>Why is AWG 12 called for when the wire coming out of the SD-8 is only AWG 14
>and the wire off the regulator that was provided by B&C appears even smaller
>than that? Can I use AWG 14?
Yes . . . the 12AWG was selected as a worst case where the battery
is back in the tail . . this is to reduce voltage drop. If all of
your wiring is up front, 16-14AWG is fine.
>Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the firewall?
>The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch.
If anyone has done this installation and has pictures to share
on the arrangement, I'd be pleased to receive copies to publish
on our website.
>The connectors that come with the SD-8 and regulator are very strange. It
>appears that a special tool is needed to crimp them. Why do we need these
>connectors? It seems like we are increasing the potential points of
>failure. Is it OK to cut these out and just use butt splices and service
>loops?
Sure . . . or how about blue knife splices with heat shrink over them?
>Ross Mickey
>RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starter |
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Stan Blanton <stanb(at)door.net>
>To: aeroelectric-list
>Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:24 AM
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sky-Tec starter
>
>
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > 1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for
>the
> > sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on
> > the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons?
> >
This change is to accommodate a problem unique to Sky-Tec and other
permanent magnet motor starters. Voltage generated by the motor as
it spins down causes a delayed disengagement of the pinion gear
if the starter is wired like B&C and others with wound field motors.
Adding the relay in the system as shown in Figure Z-14 takes care
of this problem.
> > 2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is
> > this needed?
This is needed if you want to run an alternator with a built-in
regulator. The disconnect contactor provides a way to unhook
a runaway alternator from your system in the event of regulator
failure.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Europa Schematic |
>Hello Bob,
>I'd like to start by saying how much I appreciate your website and the
>information contained on it. I have some questions about some basics. I have
>been studying the schematic that Europa supplied with the other literature as
>well as your Figure Z-7. I believe it applies to the Rotax 912.
Correct
>I was wondering if I can use two separate switches for the battery and the
>alternator as the Europa drawing shows.
You can . . . but the single switch implementation as described
in Figure Z-7 is more consistent with architecture used on airplanes
with bigger electrical systems . . . hence better commonality with
other aircraft.
>I was wondering why your drawing shows no 30 amp breaker as the Europa
>drawing does.
I prefer the fusible link to feed alternator power to the
system out on the firewall as opposed to bringing it into
the cockpit to feed the bus.
>Is the "dynamo" and the voltage regulator pin out a true representation of
>the ones on the 912?
I believe it is.
>I would like to have the over voltage protection circuit incorporated into my
>factory schematic.
OV protection is included in Figure Z-7. Suggest you pitch the
factory schematic and fabricate your own to built foundations
of Z-7
>
>I will be using an AV-10 engine monitoring system that gives an audible and
>visual warning of voltages and current draw conditions which means I wouldn't
>need the Alt Warning light.
Effectiveness the regulator's built in warning is suspect.
I'd ignore it and as you've already planned, use a system who's
utility is known.
>If I were to send you a copy of my drawing and the equipment list could you
>show me how it should be wired?
You can do this. Do each system on it's own page . . . just start from
the bus through the fuse and copy down the information needed to wire
just that system. This is another reason for pitching the factory
schematic. Each system needs to get wired on its own page.
>Will the standard Rotax alternator be enough to run a set of Aero flash
>strobes/Navs and keep the other stuff operating. I know you can't possibly
>answer all these questions without knowing loads and looking at the
>schematic.
Have you added up the running loads for all the goodies? I suspect
you're going to be find with night VFR with the 18A or so
available from the Rotax . . . but you need to do the study yourself.
Just get out the books for each goody and add up all the running loads
and tell me what you get.
> But let me know if you can help me and if I can send you my
>information. I know you are a busy man and will understand perfectly if you
>can't get this involved.
Let's figure out a way to guide you through this. My goal is
to have you running about 100 times more brain snort than the average
spam-can drive. Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is confidence and
power.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: SD-8 Installation |
> >Does anyone have a "neat" way to install all these goodies to the
firewall?
> >The regulator, the round "resistor", the shunt and SDPT switch.
>
> If anyone has done this installation and has pictures to share
> on the arrangement, I'd be pleased to receive copies to publish
> on our website.
I have decided to mount them on a removable plate that will be located in
the upper "V" of the passanger side firewall. A service loop will enable me
to lower the panel to a reasonable working level. This seems to be the most
prudent arraingement since I have decided to butt splice all of the
components together. Bob, I will take pictures and send them to you.
Ross Mickey
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fusible link |
Hi Bob !
Glad to see you back up to where we can talk to you and not
take up 3 hours of your time to sift through it.
Feels good to me too . . .
I noticed where you said to a man..Troy...something, about how you
prefer the fat link from the alt. power to be out on the firewall.
Is this the heavy duty puppy I have that is the fat looking fuse along with
the nuts, bolts, and heat shrink ??
Yes . . . of course the ABF-80 fuse is used on BIG alternators
generally rated at 40 to 60A. The fusible link described in the
Rotax drawings is recommended for the 18A and smaller PM alternators
exemplified by Rotax and others.
If so, and it is a good idea to keep it North of the firewall, how would one
attach it without touching things it is not supposed to ?
The fuse kit comes with heatshrink that covers all hot terminals
so that the fuse and wires leading up to it can be simply tied
into wire bundles. The fusible link is a piece of wire covered
with silicone/glass sleeving to protect adjacent wires . . . so
it too is simply tied into the wire bundle.
I don't suppose you mean it gets mounted actually to the firewall did you ?
Did you get my post asking about using your switches with the wig wag ?
It doesn't need a bracket or clamp . . although some have used an
Adel clamp or similar to secure the fuse to the firewall . . . but
that's not necessary.
Hmmm . . . the switch question doesn't ring a bell. That might
have gotten lost in the flood of previous life messages. Why
not repeat it here?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Contactor/fuse Setup |
I am arraigning my battery contactor, starter contactor, 80amp fuse and
shunt. I have connected the battery and starter contactors together with a
4" piece of #2 wire. Is it acceptable to attach the 80 Amp fuse directly to
the starter contactor and then attach the shunt directly to the 80 amp fuse
and attach the whole setup inside the cockpit. The only downside I see is
if/when the 80 amp fuse blows, it will emit some smoke. I have a 40 amp
alternator. The alternative is to route a short piece of #4 or #8 wire
from the starter contactor to the 80 amp fuse and then mount the 80 amp fuse
on the engine side?
Ross Mickey
6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Bob,
I need a grounding cable and can't find these on either your or B&C's
website. Are you still supplying these?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/16/00 |
Bob,
Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z
not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered
standard equipment?
Thanks,
Andrew Larkin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Ammeter vs. voltmeter vs lowvolts warn |
>
>Bob,
>
>Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z
>not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered
>standard equipment?
You set your own "standards" in owner-built aircraft.
Parts 23/25 say you need a means for showing that
the system is operating. This could be as simple as
a low volts warning light . . . ammeters have been
used to fulfill this task in the past but a GOOD voltmeter
combined with low volts warning is ideal . . .
BTW, most of my diagrams DO show an ammeter in the
form of an alternator loadmeter (see shunt in series
with alternator b-lead).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | crimping insulation on Molex pins |
Bob,
On your website you advise crimping molex pins so that
the insulation is held in a bear hug rather than being
impaled like the conductor. You say "I DO NOT
RECOMMEND this on the aircraft wire - the insulation
is too thin." Am I actually risking any new failure
modes by following the manufacturer's recommendation?
Seems like if it's good enough for the conductor it
should be good enough for conductor + insulation.
Andrew Larkin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Subject: | Dual Electronic Ignitions |
Bob,
I want to run two electronic ignitions on an O-320, and possible a full
electric panel. I'm planning on an essential bus as well as dual alternators
per your diagrams. I have the following concerns:
1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a
single unit with a mag?
2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really
dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the
system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability?
3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary
power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power
sources. Any suggested implementations?
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1675 hrs/7.5 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter vs. voltmeter vs lowvolts warn
>
>Bob,
>
>Why do your power distribution diagrams in appendix Z
>not show an ammeter? Aren't ammeters considered
>standard equipment?
You set your own "standards" in owner-built aircraft.
Parts 23/25 say you need a means for showing that
the system is operating. This could be as simple as
a low volts warning light . . . ammeters have been
used to fulfill this task in the past but a GOOD voltmeter
combined with low volts warning is ideal . . .
BTW, most of my diagrams DO show an ammeter in the
form of an alternator loadmeter (see shunt in series
with alternator b-lead).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions |
Fred,
Even though I am not Bob, I will offer my observations. Since they are
free, they can be treated as such.
> 1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a
> single unit with a mag?
I have heard Bob mention that 90% of the advantage of the electronic igition
is gained by the first one. Therefore, he has suggested in the past, to buy
one, operate your plane with one mag until it dies, install the mag you took
out, run that untill it dies and then replace that with a second electronic
ignition. This is what I plan on doing.
> 2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really
> dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the
> system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability?
When I get to the point of running two electronic ignitions, I will be
installing a second battery of the same size as the original and swap one
out annually. The idea is to have each electronic ignition wired directly
to the battery (through a switch of course) without having to go through any
bus. I am also going to start out with a smaller battery, 17-19 amp and a
very small , 4 amp, hooked up to the SD-8.
> 3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary
> power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power
> sources. Any suggested implementations?
There are two areas of seemlessness. The first is the alternators. B&C has
a special regulator that senses when the main alternator dies and
automatically comes on line. I do not know if it works for the PM SD-8
alternator. This is the unit I am installing and will rely on a manual
switching arrangement.
As I said above, the electronic ignitions are hard wired to the battery. I
would imagine one COULD hard wire both electronic ignitions off the same
battery. My choice, however, would be to dedicate a battery to each one.
The major drawback to these little goodies is that they need electricity to
run. I would want an architecture that addresses the failure of the
battery.
Ross
All Electric RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions |
>
> > 3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary
> > power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power
> > sources. Any suggested implementations?
I am not sure of your question, but if you mean no interruptions when moving
the alternate feed switch, there is a simple way to achieve that. Instead
of putting the diode in series with the alternate feed switch, put the diode
across the switch's normal feed position terminals. Then, during the brief
dead period when the alternate feed switch is moving, the diode will supply
the ebus with juice from the (about to be shut off) master contactor. The
diode will also keep the ebus from feeding back to the contactor and rest of
the system, as in the original Bob design. This design has the added
benefits of supplying the ebus with full voltage during normal feed
operations, and no heat generated in the diode.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Dual Electronic Ignitions |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> I want to run two electronic ignitions on an O-320, and possible a full
>electric panel. I'm planning on an essential bus as well as dual alternators
>per your diagrams. I have the following concerns:
>
>1. Is a dual electronic ignition system safe? Or should I stick with a
>single unit with a mag?
There is no such thing as a SAFE airplane . . . they are very
dangerous machines capable of doing great harm if
improperly used and/or maintained. Likewise, cars, bows and arrows
and handguns are equally dangerous. Like all tools, airplanes
are easily understood and in the hands of responsible users
can add to life's pleasures.
I think you're looking for a RELIABLE airplane. To me, this means
that from the time I break ground to the time I touch down at the
INTENDED destination, I don't want to break a sweat. This is
not difficult to plan for and implement no matter what equipment
you choose to light the fires in your cylinders.
>2. Your implementations use a single 25Ah (min) battery. Is this really
>dependable enough, or should a second, low Ah battery be included in the
>system? If yes, how should it be charged and checked for dependability?
Maintained batteries do not fail. Only batteries that are ignored
and flogged until they just won't run any more fail. In your
automobile, it's okay to beat it 'til it dies. In an airplane,
routine and inexpensive preventative maintenance (replace battery
when capacity has dropped below your e-bus x fuel endurance)
will give you a source of energy that is just as dependable as
having your wings stay on the airplane during normal flight ops.
>3. I would prefer a seamless transition from primary power to secondary
>power (essential bus), especially with respect to the ignition power
>sources. Any suggested implementations?
What's not seamless about what I've illustrated? Electronic ignitions
should run DIRECTLY from the battery that powers them . . . I.e., from
an always hot battery bus. When the main alternator fails, equipment
running on the essential bus can be powered directly from the battery
to take the battery contactor off line. Aside from a drop in bus
voltage from 14+ to 13- volts, no piece of equipment should be aware
of any changes nor suffer any interruptions of power.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: crimping insulation on Molex pins |
>
>Bob,
>
>On your website you advise crimping molex pins so that
>the insulation is held in a bear hug rather than being
>
>impaled like the conductor. You say "I DO NOT
>RECOMMEND this on the aircraft wire - the insulation
>is too thin." Am I actually risking any new failure
>modes by following the manufacturer's recommendation?
>Seems like if it's good enough for the conductor it
>should be good enough for conductor + insulation.
>
>Andrew Larkin
These terminals were designed for automotive wire
with much thicker insulation. I don't know that the
support is inadequate if you have the tabs punch through
the tefzel but it really looks like @#%
$@. When
you look at a PIDG and how it grips insulation, it
seems like the bear-hug is simply an extension of
that same philosophy and looks better to boot.
________________________________________________________________________________
bob
can i run com and gps antenna wire together in conduit under seat and baggage compartment?
they will be going their separate ways after baggage compartment bulkhead.
antennas are over three feet apart.
thanks
dave pierson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>bob
>
>can i run com and gps antenna wire together in conduit under seat and
>baggage compartment? they will be going their separate ways after baggage
>compartment bulkhead. antennas are over three feet apart.
>thanks
>
>dave pierson
Yes, the routing you propose poses no special potential
for problems . . . except I am concerned about the LENGTH
of your GPS antenna coax. At 1500 MHz, you want to keep
this as SHORT as possible . . . losses at this frequency
are high.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
I am considering Lightspeed headsets for noise reduction in
an RV-8A. With ANR headsets does it make sense to install a
stereo intercom? Does the circuitry that cuts out some of the
noise also reduce the stereo response? Am I better off just
considering Mono?
Vince Welch
RV-8A Fuselage
Roaming Shores, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
bob
just got the 2-5 switch for boost pump and prime.
i think i have it wired right but could explain the wiring to give me some peace
of mind?
on---boost pump
off--
(on)--boost pump and primer solinoid
thanks and happy holidays
dave pierson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Subject: | Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor |
Hi Bob,
I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low.
I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of
a master contactor.
The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes
to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw
with this concept ?
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor |
In my RV-3 I don't have a battery contactor, only a switch (I guess it's called
a battery isolator) with a red removable key. It's mounted directly on the +
terminal on the battery. Battery is in front between my legs. Very convenient
and simple. Switch is designed to handle starter currents, so when switch is
off, I can even work around the starter without fear of shorting the starter
cable to ground.
Finn
Paul McAllister wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low.
> I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of
> a master contactor.
>
> The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes
> to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw
> with this concept ?
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
Why pay for something you could get for free?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master |
Contactor
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A message with no text/plain section was received.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master |
Contactor
Paul,
There is auto relay, plastic cubic ones. They could switch
30, 80 and 120 Amp DC.
They use around 100ma(0.1A) and really work fine.
Look JCWhitney for them. They cheap, but works fine.
Happy flying, happy holidays!
Vlad
N1UT - Velocity Elite, RG, Mazda 20B rotary, NA - engine installation in
progress
http://www.N1UT.velocity-air.com
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very low.
>I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead of
>a master contactor.
>
>The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes
>to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw
>with this concept ?
>
>Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Stereo headphone jacks |
Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I
am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stereo headphone jacks |
Alex,
Phone jacks you can get from RadioShack.
Phone jacks you can buy Mono or Stereo, dependent
on Intercom in use and headphones. If one Mono
Headphone will be in use, most intercoms will switch
to the Mono mode for all.
Mic jacks order from ACS, they specific ones.
Also there is available jack kits.
Vlad
N1UT - Velocity Elite, RG, Mazda 20B rotary, NA - engine installation in
progress
http://www.N1UT.velocity-air.com
>
>
>Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I
>am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Switch instead of a Master Contactor |
Paul,
If you are using the SD-8 from B+C, this is exactly what Bob has depicted in
his "All Electric on a Budget" diagram. This is on his website in the
Appendix Z as well as reprints section.
Ross
> I am building a Europa and as you know the alternator capacity is very
low.
> I was wondering can I use a battery isolator and a fusible link instead
of
> a master contactor.
>
> The reason is that I don't want to give up the one amp or so that it takes
> to operate a contactor. Is this idea viable, or is their some basic flaw
> with this concept ?
>
> Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald R. Eaves" <doneaves(at)bigfoot.com> |
Subject: | Stereo headphone jacks |
Try this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com
RV6 Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex
Peterson
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:55 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo headphone jacks
Where can one get stereo headphone jacks of the sort used in airplanes? I
am assuming that stereo aircraft headsets do not have "standard" jacks.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Stereo headphone jacks |
>
>>I'd be careful using RS components where quality and longevity might be a
factor. I've got some Tandy components in my wiring and have had a few
glitches. Even the set screws backed out of the rotary switch knobs and let
them fall off... now it's more difficult to switch banks of EGT/CHT sensors
in flight!
If Bob sells a competing product, I'd buy his (over RS) in a heartbeat.
Just be careful, scrutinize quality, remember how difficult lots of this
stuff could be to service/repair once you are finished and flying. Right now
I wish I had made my oil cooler easier to dismount for flushing!
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
Subject: | thermostat senders question |
(re-posted here for Gary)
For any electronics gurus out there that can help. We are trying to sense
water temperature at the engine blocks of the replica P-38 for purposes of
supplying the data to both a meter and the electronic ignition. The sender
output is a resistance type (about 6K ohms at 60 deg F and drops as temp
goes
up. There is no other place on the block that we can really put a second
sensor easily so we have one down at the thermostat lower on the hose (the
redrive covers the stock location).
Yesterday the test pilot had a water pump belt failure on the port engine
and
wasn't able to determine the problem readily because the indicated temp
didn't increase (no circulation, so no accurate measurement of coolant temp
at that location).
We would like to find a way to use the engine block mounted sender for both
purposes. Is there a way to take the resistive output from the sender and
run it thru two high impedance follower stages to get two isolated
resistance
indications that track the input? All help would be appreciated. Thanks in
advance.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stereo headphone jacks |
> Try this:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
> Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com
> RV6 Flying
Thanks for the replies, but to repeat, I'm looking for stereo aviation
headphone jacks. The ones that B&C sell (formerly sold by Bob) are mono.
BTW, I agree, RS is the last stop before the landfill for most things.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B. Keith Peshak" <keith.peshak(at)gtwn.net> |
Subject: | thermostat senders question |
We would like to find a way to use the engine block mounted sender for
both purposes. Is there a way to take the resistive output from the
sender and run it through two high impedance follower stages to get two
isolated resistance indications that track the input? All help would be
appreciated. Thanks in advance.
1. Need to see the schematic of the gauge, but... Most gauges measure
voltage, so, the circuit would take you temperature variable resistance,
use it with a standard resistor in a voltage divider, reduce the
impedance with an emitter follower (which would also drop ~0.6 Vdc).
That will, likely, require a recalibration of the meter reading of
temperature.
2. You need to remember thermal inertia. Your interest, it seems, is
what is going on inside the cylinder. By the time whatever change
results in a significant heating or cooling of the engine block, damage
from detonation has long since taken place. Your measurement system
architecture needs to avoid a delay in result.
3. You need to remember Wisconsin. When you fly to Oshkosh next year
to attend my forums (which have all been canceled), you need to remember
that the temperature up there is -40 a few feet off the ground. The
thermal drain on the engine block will be significant, and will change
with the yearly cycle. This should be considered in the measurement
system architecture - make sure you have a good signal to noise ratio
against the other factors that enter into the actual measurement
equation.
Goodluck.
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cAtxTpIc70PSLEJSyf80oCPibfNRhTuDbOJiomFx/U+AYzogLTNNkWHgLAZgQ78EgR5BLdFGZFm/
WsstHeD/IVI2MzjCZKROMQRwUrNLMf0bkW5OUByxRcMcADRQTtH/Z7QfMR6yANA80SnVdFEese9M
USEhHPF6IXVLMXPaRMH7KYNIbUd3UQpAHcAf8AqFBRUxAH/AAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAA
BzAgHMlXqW7AAUAACDAgHMlXqW7AAR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA9vY
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bert murillo <bertrv6(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | check 983 $28.80 |
Dear Sir:
Amonth ago, I sent you my check for your book,
about Electric system for my RV6am ,
As of today I have never receive it, nor I have
received any replies to previous e-mails, i sent
to the E; mail address you list on your web page.
Terrible service.
I could have bought the book, from another
supplier..
I hope you can anser this message, sent as
suggested by some one on the rv-list.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Stereo headphone jacks |
DUH, I just figured out that the aviation phone jacks are the same size as
regular stereo headphones - I guess I am pleasantly surprised. Sorry for
the dumb questions....
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Strobe interconnect |
Does anyone know if the synchronizing line which can be run between Whelen
strobe power supplies is a signal level? In other words, does it need to be
wire of the same gauge as the circuit is fused for? This is not clarified
in their literature. I would like to run smaller wire than the 16awg for
the synch. line.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Umbrella Tech., Inc." <uti(at)umbtech.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stereo headphone jacks |
I bought Mic jacks from an Aviation supply. After 15 hours one of my Mic jack
become bad, misalignment between mic and push-to-talk contacts. Good quality?
No, just bad jack. Same time I installed Stereo Phone jacks from RS. Works
great.
I had have chance to compare one from ACS and RS. Same supplyer,
same country of originated (guess which?) - in both cases work fine.
Just use what you can, but check each given specimen quality for assurance.
Vlad
N1UT
>
>
> > Try this:
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
> > Don Eaves - satisfied Customer aeroelectric.com
> > RV6 Flying
>
>
>Thanks for the replies, but to repeat, I'm looking for stereo aviation
>headphone jacks. The ones that B&C sell (formerly sold by Bob) are mono.
>
>BTW, I agree, RS is the last stop before the landfill for most things.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe interconnect |
I thought I'd read 18 AWG for this one - that's what I was planning to
use...Here it is on pg 14 of their manual - the stuff I got from Van's...
Ralph Capen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobe interconnect
>
> Does anyone know if the synchronizing line which can be run between Whelen
> strobe power supplies is a signal level? In other words, does it need to
be
> wire of the same gauge as the circuit is fused for? This is not clarified
> in their literature. I would like to run smaller wire than the 16awg for
> the synch. line.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> 6A
>
>
> ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From
$7.99/mo! ------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Subject: | B&C Regulator questions |
A couple of questions that I'm sure are already answered somewhere, if
someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction.
My engine came with an alternator with a built-in voltage regulator. I
already ordered the B&C external regulator. Is there an overwhelming reason
not to return the B&C unit and use the internal regulator on the alternator?
If I do keep the B&C unit, is there a way to wire the overvoltage lamp so
that it can also indicate canopy open? I know I'll need some sort of switch
for the canopy latch. Other than that how do I wire the lamp to the switch
to share it with the B&C unit?
Thanks for your help!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe interconnect |
Thanks, Ralph. Clear as a bell on page 14....
Alex
> I thought I'd read 18 AWG for this one - that's what I was planning to
> use...Here it is on pg 14 of their manual - the stuff I got from Van's...
>
> Ralph Capen
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: B&C Regulator questions |
>
> A couple of questions that I'm sure are already answered somewhere, if
> someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction.
>
> My engine came with an alternator with a built-in voltage regulator. I
> already ordered the B&C external regulator. Is there an overwhelming
reason
> not to return the B&C unit and use the internal regulator on the
alternator?
As Bob says in his book, everything will eventually break after a period of
time. Your voltage regulator will break after 1, 1,000 or 20,000 hours. I
ordered my engine from Aerosport without an alternator so that I could put a
B&C on without an internal voltage regulator. Then I just used Bob's
diagrams to build in overvoltage protection and protection from transient
spikes. If you choose to keep the internally regulated alternator, Bob has
diagrams that will allow you to install overvoltage protection in case the
internal unit fails.
If I were you, I would first see if your engine maker\rebuilder will take
back the alternator for a refund. If not, I would use it and use the
aeroelectric diagrams to install overvoltage protection.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-List: Van's Alternator -> airframe ground |
> 1. The mounting bracket is anodized (Blue on this one) and is a near
perfect
> insulator. Except for minor scratches, produced when bolting the bracket
to
> the engine and bolting the alternator to the bracket, it provides Zero
> ground return. The frame of the alternator is the big current ground
return
> and Must be grounded to the engine as is the starter motor. The minor
> scratches soon corrode and become insulators. I chose to run a heavy (#6)
> ground strap from the frame of the alternator to the frame of the starter
> using plated aviation grade connectors with 5/16ths holes clamped by the
> respective pivot and mounting bolts. I could have removed the bracket and
> removed an appropriate amount of anodizing from it; alodined and or coated
> with silicone grease; and then remounted and safetied, but the ground
strap
> was easier and a more resilient method' in my opinion.
An excellent post on an alternator problem that also provides insight into
another topic: using the airframe for ground versus running ground wires.
There has been much debate on the list about whether to run ground wires
from electrical items in the wings back into the fuselage, or save the
weight and use the wing frame itself for ground. Having experience in the
world of car stereo where small amounts of resistance can be picked up using
an auto chassis for ground (measurable), which leads to ground loops and
noise in the system, I am a firm believer in the "single point ground"
theory. BTW, Bob Nuckolls also advocates single point ground, and in fact
sells a nice little solution for terminating your ground wires together at
the firewall.
Anyway, many of us have Phlogistan anodized spars. If Gary Graham
experienced this alternator ground problem with an anodized alternator
bracket, what do you think is happening with your wing spar ground path?
Seems to me that the addition of less than a pound's worth of wire is good
insurance.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, painting
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Low fuel warning system |
I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to
tell me when air starts to appear at the top.
In other words the mains would have run dry. I looked at the system Power
point avionics sells but it is too pricey for me. I understand all new cars
have a low fuel level sensor in their tanks. Does anybody know how to use
these, maybe a simple electronic circuit that could be put together to light
up an led?
Lonnie
Sportsman 2+2, rotary powered, wiring stage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Low fuel warning system |
lonwood wrote:
> I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to
> tell me when air starts to appear at the top.
> In other words the mains would have run dry. I looked at the system Power
> point avionics sells but it is too pricey for me. I understand all new cars
> have a low fuel level sensor in their tanks. Does anybody know how to use
> these, maybe a simple electronic circuit that could be put together to light
> up an led?
I guess the easiest thing to do would be to rig up a float switch, kinda
like the ballcock in a toilet cistern. When the tank level dips below a
certain level, the switch is activated and the light comes on. However,
that wouldn't work well in any sort of uncoordinated or inverted flight.
You could build something based on Jim Weir's capacitance fuel gauge
(see the RST Elewctronics Web page for information). If you put in
multiple sensor elements, it should work well, no matter which way was
up.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Loads |
>>Have you added up the running loads for all the goodies? I suspect
>>you're going to be find with night VFR with the 18A or so
>>available from the Rotax . . . but you need to do the study yourself.
>>Just get out the books for each goody and add up all the running loads
>>and tell me what you get.
>But let me know if you can help me and if I can send you my
>information. I know you are a busy man and will understand perfectly if you
>can't get this involved.
>>Let's figure out a way to guide you through this. My goal is
>>to have you running about 100 times more brain snort than the average
>>spam-can driver. Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is confidence and
>>power.
Hi Bob,
I've been trying to find out the total current draw anticipated in my Europa.
You were right, the Rotax puts out 17.8 amps @5800 rpm.
Here's what I've got. It's not much but some of the equipment is common and
I thought you might could fill in some of the blanks as to their current draw
and add it up. Where the question marks are means I don't know, or it's what
the factory shows it fused at.
(Bob's comments inside the "<>")
RC Allen Attitude Indicator---------------------------------- 1.2
Turn Coordinator(imported)(like RC Allen) ------------------- .5
AV-10 Engine monitor----------------------------------------- .85
Michell Electric Tach (redundant to monitor------------------ .2
Skysport Capacitance Fuel gage------------------------------- .2
Fuel Pump(at)T.O.& Lnd (Facet)---------------------------------- 2.0
Comm.Radio---------------------------------------------------- 0.5 < .5 amp
should be plenty
for
receive. Your 2.6 value
would
be intermittent duty
transmit
only>
Transponder--------------------------------------------------- 1.8a max.
Alt. Encoder-------------------------------------------------- 0.5 < I'm
pretty sure it won't
neet
more than this>
(i.a.w. manual)
suspect your 1a estimate
is way
too high>
Intercom------------------------------------------------------ .13a
Trim, Pitch(MAC)---------------------------------------------- 0.1
AeroFlash Strobe---------------------------------------------- 4.0
AeroFlash Nav/Tail Lite Combo (4lamps)------------------------ 8.0
Landing Lite (maybe two 35w WalMart Specials------------------ 5.0
CD Player----------------------------------------------------- 1.0
Instrument Lites- (type yet to be determined, maybe
electroluminesant type for six 3" and two 2"
instruments and for sure one Grimes maplite)-------- 1.0
Battery Contactor -------------------------------------------- 1.0
_____________________________
Nav lights. For long night cruise, I'm not sure I'd run the Nav
lights with so small an alternator . . .>
One other thing, can some of these things
be put on the same common fuse
instead of having so many fuses,
for example the tach and fuel gage, or the
transponder and encoder?
If I add these up it appears that I would need a total of about 25 amps from
the alternator. I have a friend that has essentially the same equipment or
maybe more and the only time he notices a problem is when he turns on a
landing lite. Maybe some of these numbers are worst case loads and some may
be too high to begin with. Do I need an additional alternator? Do I need to
do more research or can you help me with what I've given you?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Medsker <bmedsker(at)grm.net> |
Subject: | Re: Low fuel warning system |
www.wicks.com/aircraft page 247 $25, turns on light. Velocity uses this
one and also has (or used to) one that mounts from the outside if your
tank is already built. Bill Medsker
lonwood wrote:
>
>
> I am looking for a low cost way of putting a sensor in my header tank to
> tell me when air starts to appear at the top.
> In other words the mains would have run dry.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Wire |
>
>Is it necessary to run a shielded power line to a Whelen 3 bulb power
>supply?
No
>Do you think it is appropriate to mount this 2.1 lbs box on the belly
>skin?
I'd fabricate a shelf that attaches to internal structure. The
problem with attaching anything to skin is the labor and downtime
involved in repairing skins that have become cracked due to vibration
and extra loads attached to them.
>The Whelen manual mentions shielded wire but it doesn't spell out what
>systems will need one.
The only wires that need to be shielded in the stobe
system are those that run from power supply to flash
tube fixtures. Their install kits used to come with
the appropriate wire for this task.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
Subject: | relay for fuel pump |
Can anyone tell me, specifically (maybe even a part no.), what relay I
should use to turn on my fuel pump when the relay is activated by the stick
switch? I see in the catalogs a loooong list that are 12vdc and 10amps, but
vary greatly in price. How is the relay attached to the bulkhead (or
wherever)? I've read about "rails", or something. I would like to have
fast-on or screw terminals.
Thanks for helping out a beginner!
Wayne Williams
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: relay for fuel pump |
>
>
>Can anyone tell me, specifically (maybe even a part no.), what relay I
>should use to turn on my fuel pump when the relay is activated by the stick
>switch? I see in the catalogs a loooong list that are 12vdc and 10amps, but
>vary greatly in price. How is the relay attached to the bulkhead (or
>wherever)? I've read about "rails", or something. I would like to have
>fast-on or screw terminals.
>Thanks for helping out a beginner!
>
>Wayne Williams
>RV-8A
What size fuel pump. The S704-1 relay illustrated on our
website catalog is capable of handling about ANY size
fuel pump . . . however, if you're using a little Fawcet
pump, you may not need a relay . . . these little critters
don't draw much current.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
Subject: | Couple of questions |
Listers,
The aeroelectric prints show a battery temp sensor. My battery is in the
tail so I think I will need one. Where can these be found? Dosn't seem
to be on the web site and no hits on the archive.
Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these in
an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture.
Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically?
TIA Jim Bean
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Hi Folks,
I'm new here and am here because I know from nothing about electronics. Just
bought Bob's book and am wearing my way into it. Question. I'm building an
RV-9A and putting an Lyc 0-320 on it. I just ordered an alternator kit from
Niagara with the built in regulator. Bob's statement was "all built in
regulators are switchers." What does that mean? Do I need additional
protection from over voltage? In the diagram shown in his book (figure
3-3.). Bob shows an over voltage relay and a voltage regulator. I thought
one of the primary functions of a voltage regulator was to provide over
voltage protection for the battery. Appreciate any help here.
Dennis Thomas
RV-9A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
Subject: | Re: relay for fuel pump |
Bob:
I am using the Fawcet (non-fuel injected) pump. I did look at your web site
and thought those might be more than I needed. I really didn't see anything
in your book (although I got a lot of other information from it!)
Thanks for you help.
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Couple of questions |
>
>Listers,
>The aeroelectric prints show a battery temp sensor. My battery is in the
>tail so I think I will need one. Where can these be found? Dosn't seem
>to be on the web site and no hits on the archive.
Unless you plan to do a lot of cold weather flying or long
cruise at altitude, I wouldn't worry about it. If you decide
you want to include this feature, the sensor can be had
directly from B*C at 316.283.8000
>Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these in
>an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture.
>Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically?
>TIA Jim Bean
Torque? Not sure I understand the question. Are you
talking about the gooseneck lighting kit on our
website catalog? That fixture was picked for it's
relatively small diameter neck that is still stiff
enough to hold position under moderate g-loading.
The base where it plugs into the airplane is quite
sturdy and will easily withstand normal bending
moments applied to position the light for use or
stow it out of the way.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: relay for fuel pump |
>
>
>Bob:
>
>I am using the Fawcet (non-fuel injected) pump. I did look at your web site
>and thought those might be more than I needed. I really didn't see anything
>in your book (although I got a lot of other information from it!)
>Thanks for you help.
No problem. That little guy doesn't need much current.
How about switching it directly and leaving the relay out?
If you DO use a relay, something LIKE the S704-1 is nice
because it has the handy push-on spade terminals . . . even
if it is a bit over-rated.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Blind Mate coax connector |
I assembled the transponder connector which is mounted, via snap ring, to
the back of the tray. It is the type with the 90 degree take-off, c shaped
50 ohm matching bushing, and cap. Can someone tell me what the matching
bushing does, and how?
Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the
little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was
going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain the
RF, am I right?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Subject: | Transponder Antenna |
Listers,
Does anybody have any designs for constructing your own transponder
antenna? It would seem that that $68.95 simple device could be constructed
out of a chassis mount BNC connector and piano wire.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1700+ hrs/7.5 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob and listers...
I'm looking for a source and model numbers of the flasher and relay (or the
stuff to build the relay) to construct Bob's wigwag circuit. (wigwag.pdf with
the lights and wigwag cicuit controlled by two switches). I've got the
switches and am at the point where I need to get this done, but the flasher
and relay aren't available at the Aeroelectric site.
If someone can provide a list of components, I'll just order them from
RadioShack.
Thanks,
Keith
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna |
The difficulty is that the center conductor of the coax connector is made out
of either nickel plated brass or tin plated in case of some of the older
connectors. The piano wire is spring steel and it id near impossible to
solder or bond the two together for a good long lasting rf connection. Then
you must make it water tight so as not to have it short across from ground to
center conductor or else you will not get any signal out.
Good luck in whichever course you try.
Howard
1/2 of 80188
N28117
wiring and finish kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MitchDCGS(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag parts |
Keith,
I'll see what I can find out but if you find out first please share the info
with the group!!
Thanks,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna |
I bought mine from Chief's for less than $20, I think.
Finn
"Stucklen, Frederic IFC" wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> Does anybody have any designs for constructing your own transponder
> antenna? It would seem that that $68.95 simple device could be constructed
> out of a chassis mount BNC connector and piano wire.....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV (1700+ hrs/7.5 Yrs)
> E. Windsor, CT 06088
> WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
> Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Subject: | Trim switch wiring |
From: | Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com> |
Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control
sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator
trim.
Thanks in advance,
Hal Woodruff
Lancair IVP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Trim switch wiring |
Hal,
I just just purchased a pair of relay decks from MAC so I could do the same
thing, they came with a wiring diagram. If you give me a fax no. I can send
it to you.
Al Paxhia, SR2500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Woodruff" <woodruff(at)swefco.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 3:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim switch wiring
>
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate
control
> sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
> controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
> planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and
elevator
> trim.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Hal Woodruff
> Lancair IVP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Trim switch wiring |
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate
control
> sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
> controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
> planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and
elevator
> trim.
On faster aircraft, my research has taught me that the installation needs a
speed controller set on min speed. Whenever this thread gets going on the RV
List, many voice the opinion that there should always be a trim disconnect
switch (mine is the lowest button on my Infinity grips). This means that
there is lots of time to do some thing if your co-pilot makes a wrong move
with the trim switch.
Norman Hunger
RV6A not flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Trim switch wiring |
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate
control
> sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
> controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
> planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and
elevator
> trim.
I do not know the answer to your question. However I would like to comment
on the requirement for this type of "need". I believe that we should use
only the complexity, cost, effort, etc., which is necessary to meet our
mission. Anything above that requirement adds uneeded complexity, cost,
maintenance, and the potential to compromise a flight. You should ask
yourself the question "do I need this for my type of flying or is it just
neat technology that I would have fun exploring. For example if you are
concerned about an unruly passenger in your right seat perhaps you should
design a mechanism that overrides his control stick and pedals. No flame
intended - just asking for a reality check. I'm still deleting stuff that I
don't need.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rwayne(at)gamewood.net |
Subject: | Re: Trim switch wiring |
Hal:
I am in the process of wiring my Infinity stick. The relay allows two sticks to
be wired to one function (one relay for each servo), but the first input gets
control. (The other input is basically shut off while the other switch has control.)
I have not seen anything that allows a priority input, but I think its
a great idea. Please let the list know if you find anything!
Wayne Williams
RV-8A (wiring)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim switch wiring
From: Hal Woodruff
Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate control
sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and elevator
trim.
Thanks in advance,
Hal Woodruff
Lancair IVP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Blind Mate coax connector |
>
>
>I assembled the transponder connector which is mounted, via snap ring, to
>the back of the tray. It is the type with the 90 degree take-off, c shaped
>50 ohm matching bushing, and cap. Can someone tell me what the matching
>bushing does, and how?
When you said c-shaped, the first thing that came to mind
was a similar connector I assembled a few years ago. There
was a c-shaped piece of plastic that drops inside the shell
where the center conductor is soldered to the connector's
center pin. The cap is then used to cover this opening . . .
some caps are press fit friction retained, others solder on.
Does this make sense?
>Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the
>little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was
>going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain the
>RF, am I right?
Virtually all connectors of this genre I've encountered
soldered both the center conductor and the shield.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Trim switch wiring |
>
>
>Hal:
>
>I am in the process of wiring my Infinity stick. The relay allows two
>sticks to be wired to one function (one relay for each servo), but the
>first input gets control. (The other input is basically shut off while the
>other switch has control.) I have not seen anything that allows a priority
>input, but I think its a great idea. Please let the list know if you find
>anything!
>
>Wayne Williams
>RV-8A (wiring)
I have a pilot-priority wiring diagram for control
stick trim switches . . . but I'm in Oregon preparing
for a weekend seminar tomorrow and don't have access
to the drawings. I'll publish them on our website wen
I get back next week.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Subject: | Re: Trim switch wiring |
From: | Grant Corriveau <gfcorriv(at)total.net> |
>
> Does anyone have a resource on how to wire trim switches on separate
> control
> sticks so that either cooley hat switch could be used, but the pilot
> controlled switch would have priority and override the copilot side? I'm
> planning on using the Infinity grips and Mac Servos for rudder and
> elevator
> trim.
This question came up on the Zenith list a while back and someone was kind
enough to send me this suggestion (see attached diagram) - fwiw...
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
________________________________________________________________________________
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Subject: | Trim switch wiring |
From: | Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com> |
Thanks to all for the great ideas on how to wire the cooley hat trim
switches. I've got what I need now to figure out how I'm going to do this.
Hal Woodruff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: Blind Mate coax connector |
I guess you are referring to the Terra trays? My recollection is that you
separate the center core of the stranded coax (make sure you use stranded-
RG-58A/U) and solder it to the center pin. then drop on the c shaped piece
of plastic, then solder the shielding braid to the silver plated cap and
snap it on to the top of the assembly. The you are shielded all the way.
Does this make sense?
Chris Bobka
EAA Chapter 25 Minneapolis
Technical Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Bob N.
Sorry to see that you will not have time to support the sale of many
items. I went to order from your site about a month ago and saw your
your friends at B & C. I could not figure out how you kept up with it
all before. Good luck.
The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that
your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse
holders. I plan to use some of the spare slots on them to carry spare
fuses.
My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the
battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio
shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is
used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for
these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up
for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting
electrical issues involving aircraft.
Thank you for your contribution to aviation,
Rick D.
Murphy Rebel N754SM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Retard breakerless mags |
From: | "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/15/2001 06:41:26 AM
Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left
side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side.
My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this
arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do
away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator
in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help.
Don Nowakowski
RV-6 513DN reserved, Wiring......
"The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
Michael Collins (1987)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <alkritzm(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/14/01 |
5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 01/15/2001 07:01:39 AM
The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that
your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse
holders.
I thought this would be a great way to go also, but have been convinced
other wise by a couple problems that pilots I know have had in the past.
Both are the same failure mode of something shorts on the radio switch,
radio smokes (remember C/B or fuse is installed to protect the wire not the
radio). Smoke in the cockpit prompts the master to be switched off then
start looking for the cause so you can get power back to some of the
equipment. If you have C/B you can open them all and start putting them
back in slow, if smoke reappears you can reopen that breaker.
That being said I really like Bob main/ essential bus system but I plan on
using C/Bs on the essential bus just to give me more flexibility in the
event something goes wrong. I still plan on using fuse on the main bus to
save cost, weight and complexity. But on the essential bus C/Bs give more
flexibly in shutting one piece of equipment down, this may also be helpful
during flight test phase when your getting the bugs out of an untested
system.
Best of luck,
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
Firewall forward, RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and
found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for
the things he recommends. As I prepare to wire up my RV6, I have a question
about wire sizes that seem to be at variance to other recommendations. My 6
will have a VFR panel and a 35 amp alternator. My Questions with regard to
schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use
#4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also
the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be
very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking?
Thanks for the help
Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing
Visalia, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
>I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and
>found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons for
>the things he recommends.
>schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use
>#4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and also
>the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would be
>very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking?
The rating's for the toaster and coffee percolator!
sorry couldn't help myself:o)
Bruce
>Thanks for the help
>Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing
>Visalia, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
You are reading the charts correctly. I am using #4 for my 40 amp
alternator and #2 to the starter.
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Stewart" <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire sizes
>
>
> >I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and
> >found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons
for
> >the things he recommends.
> >schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not
use
> >#4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and
also
> >the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would
be
> >very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking?
>
> The rating's for the toaster and coffee percolator!
>
> sorry couldn't help myself:o)
>
> Bruce
>
>
> >Thanks for the help
> >Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing
> >Visalia, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Blind Mate coax connector |
-List message posted by: Christian Bobka
>
> I guess you are referring to the Terra trays? My recollection is that you
> separate the center core of the stranded coax (make sure you use stranded-
> RG-58A/U) and solder it to the center pin. then drop on the c shaped
piece
> of plastic, then solder the shielding braid to the silver plated cap and
> snap it on to the top of the assembly. The you are shielded all the way.
> Does this make sense?
>
> Chris Bobka
> EAA Chapter 25 Minneapolis
> Technical Counselor
Bob wrote:
When you said c-shaped, the first thing that came to mind
was a similar connector I assembled a few years ago. There
was a c-shaped piece of plastic that drops inside the shell
where the center conductor is soldered to the connector's
center pin. The cap is then used to cover this opening . . .
some caps are press fit friction retained, others solder on.
Does this make sense?
>Also, I'm using RG400 coax, and I soldered the braid to the outside of the
>little port on the side of the connector, as there was no way the braid was
>going to fit inside the port. I'm assuming this will adequately contain
the
>RF, am I right?
Virtually all connectors of this genre I've encountered
soldered both the center conductor and the shield.
Bob . . .
Bob, Chris, thanks for the replies. The tray is for a Garmin 327
transponder, and the c-shaped "impedence" matcher is made from metal,
probably plated brass, but that is a guess.
The question regarding soldering the braid was specifically whether or not
the braid would be inside or outside of the little port. The braid had to
be soldered to the outside, and I was wondering if that was ok.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
It is the starter load that you need to accommodate. Just a small amount of
resistance kills the power out put at high amperages. We are talking in the
range of 200 to 300 amps. Light wires might work when it is warm and the
starter and battery are in good condition but if during cold weather or even
hot starts with an old battery, you might need all the power that your
battery can muster.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
EAA Chapter 75 helping fellow aviators
----- Original Message -----
From: " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:26 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire sizes
>
> I have studied Electric Bob's book off and on for a couple of years and
> found his approach is very well thought out, and there are good reasons
for
> the things he recommends. As I prepare to wire up my RV6, I have a
question
> about wire sizes that seem to be at variance to other recommendations. My
6
> will have a VFR panel and a 35 amp alternator. My Questions with regard
to
> schematic Z1 in the book: Since my battery is on the firewall why not use
> #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and
also
> the output from the alternator. It would appear that #6 or even #8 would
be
> very adequate for my system. What am I overlooking?
> Thanks for the help
> Ralph Bookout RV6 finishing
> Visalia, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
> Since my battery is on the firewall why not use
> #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and
I used # 2 for starter then later saw where Bob made a note that #4 would be
okay for front engine front battery setups.
A wire two feet in diameter would have even less resistance but there is
this tradeoff stuff like weight and cost. Autos with bigger engines and
starters use #4 successfully.
Makes sense too that the starter design would be a factor.
Keep connections clean and tight and I betcha you have much less resistance
than the usual installation.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
> Since my battery is on the firewall why not use
> #4 cables instead of #2. #4 cables are shown feeding the main bus and
I used # 2 for starter then later saw where Bob made a note that #4 would be
okay for front engine front battery setups.
A wire two feet in diameter would have even less resistance but there is
this tradeoff stuff like weight and cost. Autos with bigger engines and
starters use #4 successfully.
Makes sense too that the starter design would be a factor.
Keep connections clean and tight and I betcha you have much less resistance
than the usual installation.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK - Certificated and ready to fly!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 1 Msgs - |
01/14/01
>
>
>The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that
>your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse
>holders.
>
>I thought this would be a great way to go also, but have been convinced
>other wise by a couple problems that pilots I know have had in the past.
>Both are the same failure mode of something shorts on the radio switch,
>radio smokes (remember C/B or fuse is installed to protect the wire not the
>radio). Smoke in the cockpit prompts the master to be switched off then
>start looking for the cause so you can get power back to some of the
>equipment. If you have C/B you can open them all and start putting them
>back in slow, if smoke reappears you can reopen that breaker.
>That being said I really like Bob main/ essential bus system but I plan on
>using C/Bs on the essential bus just to give me more flexibility in the
>event something goes wrong. I still plan on using fuse on the main bus to
>save cost, weight and complexity. But on the essential bus C/Bs give more
>flexibly in shutting one piece of equipment down, this may also be helpful
>during flight test phase when your getting the bugs out of an untested
>system
Do what ever makes you comfortable but the "smoking radio
syndrome" just isn't very high on my list of concerns. I've
not seen it happen since we got rid of vacuum tubes about
25 years ago.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> Ralph
> The battery feeds the starter. The starter of a car uses 200 to 300 amps
> when starting the engine. A plane won't use that much but it will still
> need a much bigger cable than #4,such as a #2. HTH.
>
At 250 amps, with 7 feet of cable (don't forget to add the length of the
ground cable), 4awg would have a voltage drop of .425 volts, while 2awg
would have a .273 volt drop. The difference in voltage delivered to the
starter in this case would be .152 volts. I decided to go with 4awg based
upon this.
To further support that decision, a while back I did a calculation of the
temperature rise that 4awg wire would have in this case, and I recall it to
be around 1 degree Fahrenheit per second, which is quite acceptable. If
someone cares enough, I will redo this calculation.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>You are reading the charts correctly. I am using #4 for my 40 amp
>alternator and #2 to the starter.
>
>Ross
>
The 4AWG recommendation came from the fact that most of the
the power distribution system is wired with 4AWG or
larger for the rest of the high current conductors. The b-lead
feed on an alternator can be downsized to 6 or even 8AWG
in some cases . . . but it only saves an ounce or two
and you have to chase down a short piece of other sized
wire and terminals to match . . . when adding a couple more
feet of 4AWG and matching terminals is an easy thing to do
since you need those sizes anyhow.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
> > Ralph
> > The battery feeds the starter. The starter of a car uses 200 to 300 amps
> > when starting the engine. A plane won't use that much but it will still
> > need a much bigger cable than #4,such as a #2. HTH.
> >
>
>At 250 amps, with 7 feet of cable (don't forget to add the length of the
>ground cable), 4awg would have a voltage drop of .425 volts, while 2awg
>would have a .273 volt drop. The difference in voltage delivered to the
>starter in this case would be .152 volts. I decided to go with 4awg based
>upon this.
>
>To further support that decision, a while back I did a calculation of the
>temperature rise that 4awg wire would have in this case, and I recall it to
>be around 1 degree Fahrenheit per second, which is quite acceptable. If
>someone cares enough, I will redo this calculation.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>6A
Good science sir . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> |
> My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the
> battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio
> shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is
> used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for
> these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up
> for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting
> electrical issues involving aircraft.
> Thank you for your contribution to aviation,
> Rick D.
> Murphy Rebel N754SM
>
>
Rick,
I don't know if your question was answered or not, but here is my solution.
Use diodes from Radio Shack, No. 276-1144, or from other electronic supply
houses
look for 1n5404.
Lonnie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
> The more that I got into my schematic and wiring the more sense that
>your concept of the fuse blocks made. I ended up with two 10 slot fuse
>holders. I plan to use some of the spare slots on them to carry spare
>fuses.
Good move. In every new design I try to have at least
30% spares for future expansion
> My question before you today is related to the diodes used at the
>battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio
>shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that is
>used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for
>these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed up
>for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting
>electrical issues involving aircraft.
The electrical characteristics of these diodes are not critical
and there are dozens of suitable parts. Generally speaking if
the diode has a voltage rating of at least 50v and at least
1 amp, it's suitable for use as a spike catcher on the coils
of any contactor. There
>Thank you for your contribution to aviation,
>Rick D.
>Murphy Rebel N754SM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Retard breakerless mags |
>
>Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left
>side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side.
>My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this
>arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do
>away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator
>in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help.
I am not familiar with the retard breakerless mag.
However, if it is controlled like other mags by grounding
a p-lead to shut it off, you may certainly use the 1-3's as
you have described. Can you fill me in on how the breakerless
device works?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness |
Hi Bob
I have purchased your Crowbar overvoltage module thru B&C for the RV-6A
that I am building (learned about it from your posts on RV-List).
I am concerned by Note #4 on the installation instructions:
"4) The OV module should be tested every year for proper operation.
Suggest removal at every annual inspection for bench testing as
described in notes 1 - 3".
I am trying to build an aircraft that is easy to maintain, if this
procedure is necessary then I would like to return the unit and get
something else more stable.
Could you comment please!
I guess I don't understand the phrase "more stable" . . . these
devices are quite stable but how do you guarantee longevity of
this or any other electronic device? It isn't like this guy
does it's task several times a flight. If the other
components in the system are sturdy and well maintained, it's
unlikely that you will ever have to depend on it to do its job.
So how does one insure continued airworthiness without
testing it to make sure that it's still ready to do the job
when needed? There isn't an OV protection product on the
market that is free from this concern. If it were my airplane
the thing gets looked at every annual along with wing bolts,
control cables, prop bolts, etc. etc.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Lonnie,
No, the question about the diode was not answered. Thanks for your
reply. I think the question got buried in the rambling text.
Rick D.
> From: "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: diodes
>
>
> > My question before you today is related to the diodes used at
the
> > battery contactors and/or the starter contactor. Is there a "Radio
> > shack", Digikey, Allied, Newark Electronics, etc. part number that
is
> > used for these diodes. Perhaps there is a generic diode number for
> > these. If so could you provide that part number. I have also signed
up
> > for the Aero-electric digest to monitor some of the interesting
> > electrical issues involving aircraft.
> > Thank you for your contribution to aviation,
> > Rick D.
> > Murphy Rebel N754SM
> >
> >
> Rick,
> I don't know if your question was answered or not, but here is my
solution.
> Use diodes from Radio Shack, No. 276-1144, or from other electronic
supply
> houses
> look for 1n5404.
> Lonnie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Couple of questions |
hi,
Sorry I framed the question poorly. The gooseneck base looks very
sturdy. I was worried about the structure that supports it. The
sturdiest thing in an RV cockpit is the panel. Is the panel a good
choice for mounting or does it need to be on the side somewhere? It
-seems- that the panel next to the side wall would be good.
regards Jim Bean
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>Regarding the map light on the wand. Has anyone mounted one of these
in
> >an RV-4 or RV-8? There seems to be considerable torque on the fixture.
> >Is it better to mount it horizontally or vertically?
> >TIA Jim Bean
>
> Torque? Not sure I understand the question. Are you
> talking about the gooseneck lighting kit on our
> website catalog? That fixture was picked for it's
> relatively small diameter neck that is still stiff
> enough to hold position under moderate g-loading.
> The base where it plugs into the airplane is quite
> sturdy and will easily withstand normal bending
> moments applied to position the light for use or
> stow it out of the way.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | essential bus system |
Bob,
I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it
occurred to me that one could simplify the essential
bus system by just putting a diode and fuse together
in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you only
need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel,
less wire, but you still have the option of turning on
selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to the
battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide
ahead of time what's essential and what's not.
The only drawback I can see is when you're in
limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious
power. Is this serious and can you think of any other
drawbacks?
Thanks,
Andrew Larkin
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness |
From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
I agree with Bob, think of the OV module as a fire extinguisher. They
don't do anything but sit there, but are checked periodically to help
insure they work if needed. When I was a safety engineer, we looked at
parts like that very carefully because the "time of exposure" was very
high. ie the time since you last knew it worked. So Bob's note is no
reflection on the quality of stability of the part, just a reflection of
some very prudent thinking.
Bruce Green
writes:
>
>
> Hi Bob
>
> I have purchased your Crowbar overvoltage module thru B&C for the
> RV-6A
> that I am building (learned about it from your posts on RV-List).
>
> I am concerned by Note #4 on the installation instructions:
>
> "4) The OV module should be tested every year for proper operation.
> Suggest removal at every annual inspection for bench testing as
> described in notes 1 - 3".
>
> I am trying to build an aircraft that is easy to maintain, if this
> procedure is necessary then I would like to return the unit and get
> something else more stable.
>
> Could you comment please!
>
>
> I guess I don't understand the phrase "more stable" . . . these
> devices are quite stable but how do you guarantee longevity of
> this or any other electronic device? It isn't like this guy
> does it's task several times a flight. If the other
> components in the system are sturdy and well maintained, it's
> unlikely that you will ever have to depend on it to do its job.
>
> So how does one insure continued airworthiness without
> testing it to make sure that it's still ready to do the job
> when needed? There isn't an OV protection product on the
> market that is free from this concern. If it were my airplane
> the thing gets looked at every annual along with wing bolts,
> control cables, prop bolts, etc. etc.
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lonwood" <lonwood(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness |
Perhaps some simple circuitry could be added to where a press
to test would send a voltage slightly higher than the trigger voltage
to pop the circuit breaker. I have to admit I do not know enough
about electronics to design the changes. I would be willing to put the parts
together and try it if somebody came up with a circuit design.
Lonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "b green" <rvinfo(at)juno.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued Airworthiness
>
> I agree with Bob, think of the OV module as a fire extinguisher. They
> don't do anything but sit there, but are checked periodically to help
> insure they work if needed. When I was a safety engineer, we looked at
> parts like that very carefully because the "time of exposure" was very
> high. ie the time since you last knew it worked. So Bob's note is no
> reflection on the quality of stability of the part, just a reflection of
> some very prudent thinking.
>
> Bruce Green
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/18/01 |
From: | "Donald Nowakowski" <nowakod(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/21/2001 01:28:31 PM
Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard
Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as
"shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an
external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals
with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead for
starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition on
the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the
electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to
provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up
the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be
asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator
(actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I know
it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response.
Don Nowakowski
RV-6...wiring and worrying
"The Laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
Michael Collins (1987)
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Retard breakerless mags
>
>Bob N., I have an 0-320 B2C that uses Retard breakerless mag on the left
>side. I am installing an Electroair electronic ignition on the right side.
>My question, Can I use two 1-3 switches and a push button start with this
>arrangement? Can I use the electronic ignition for starting and just do
>away with the vibrator for the retard mag? If not, can I wire the vibrator
>in with a 1-3 switch? Thanks in advance for your help.
I am not familiar with the retard breakerless mag.
However, if it is controlled like other mags by grounding
a p-lead to shut it off, you may certainly use the 1-3's as
you have described. Can you fill me in on how the breakerless
device works?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade... |
B
Dear Listers,
I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server this afternoon (1/21/01)
and will be taking it offline for a number of hours. I hope to have it
back online by this evening sometime, depending on how well the upgrade
goes.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca> |
Keith,
I"ve built and tested the flasher module AEC9020-1 as shown with the 555
timer , capacitor and 15K resister. Other than having to make a few
changes like adding a diode across the relay coil and slowing down the
flash rate with a 33uf cap, the cicucuit performs quite well. Since I
haven't installed the flasher in my airplane yet (still have another
year to go) I don't know how noisy the unit might be.
Clay
Rebel 475
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
Bob- I was wondering if the Gooseneck light you sell is powerful enough to
help with the back lit or sunlight reading problem with the LCD displays
like the Garmin 195 and RMI engine monitors. I have found that using a
mirror or strong light [possibly halogen, or your goosneck] that shines
light on the LCD display solves a marginally readable display problem.
Ralph Bookout, Certified Slumlord
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Medsker <bmedsker(at)grm.net> |
Subject: | Looking for hangar |
I have a friend that has a Myers OTW that he wants to take to Sun and
Fun in the spring of 2002. He is looking for a hangar to rent in Florida
and Southern Georgia to winter it in this coming winter. Any idea's be
appreciated...
Velocity builder, Bill Medsker
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Hi all
Is RG400 coaxial cable okay to use for my GPS antenna feed?, or do I need
something more exotic for such high frequencies ?
Thanks,
Paul McAllister
Europa Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - |
01/18/01
>
>
>Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard
>Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as
>"shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an
>external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals
>with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead for
>starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition on
>the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the
>electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to
>provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up
>the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be
>asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator
>(actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I know
>it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response.
Yes, you can use this magneto just as if it were
a non-impulse coupled magneto. Just ignore the
second breaker points connection used in the
shower-of-sparks system. You'll use the advanced
set of points to time the magneto for normal operations.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Modules - Continued |
Airworthiness
>
>Perhaps some simple circuitry could be added to where a press
>to test would send a voltage slightly higher than the trigger voltage
>to pop the circuit breaker. I have to admit I do not know enough
>about electronics to design the changes. I would be willing to put the parts
>together and try it if somebody came up with a circuit design.
>Lonnie
I used to include a press-to-test lead on our
OV modules . . . then folks started hooking them
up to buttons on the panel and testing them every
flight . . . totally unnecessary and hard on
breakers.
They're not hard to test in-situ for an annual. You take
a 6v lantern battery with some clip leads, one
of which has a 3-5A fuse in it. Open the crowbar breaker
and clip the battery across it so that the battery
ADDS to existing ship's battery voltage . . . you
get about 18 volts with this setup. With the master
switch on but engine not running, touch the last
clip lead to the battery. The crowbar module should
trigger and pop the fuse.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: essential bus system |
>
>Bob,
>
>I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it
>occurred to me that one could simplify the essential
>bus system by just putting a diode and fuse together
>in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you only
>need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel,
>less wire, but you still have the option of turning on
>selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to the
>battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide
>ahead of time what's essential and what's not.
Not sure what you're suggesting here. If you
jumpered the contactor with a diode/fuse combo,
how would you shut the thing off to make the
bus cold?
What's so difficult to decide? Have you read
chapter 17?
>The only drawback I can see is when you're in
>limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious
>power. Is this serious and can you think of any other
>drawbacks?
Not sure I understand your idea. You can fax a
sketch to 316.685.8617 and we'll talk about
it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Exactly what does it mean when coax is described as 50 ohm impedence? Is
this some sort of standard test of a standard length? (I know, just build
it and fly it, don't worry about this type of thing) This clearly is only
curiosity on my part.
Also, I found a 90 degree BNC male/BNC female connector at RS, which works
perfectly for belly mount antennas. I am (appropriately) skeptical of most
RS stuff, but how important is a fitting like this for optimum radio
operation?
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/18/01 |
If you use the "retard breaker" type mag. Do NOT hook up the mag switch for
that option if you don't have the "shower" installed.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs -
01/18/01
>
> >
> >
> >Bob, I think I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Retard
> >Breaker mags, not breakerless. Anyway, I believe it is also refered to as
> >"shower of sparks". Instead of having an impulse coupling there is an
> >external starting vibrator. I believe I saw a drawing of yours that deals
> >with this. The mag does work like others in that you open up the P-lead
for
> >starting. I would like to know if, since I am using electronic ignition
on
> >the right, I can just not hook up the vibrator at all and use the
> >electronic ignition for starting? This way I could have one 1-3 switch to
> >provide DC voltage to the electronic ignition, one 1-3 switch to open up
> >the p-lead of the magneto and a pushbutton to start. Perhaps I should be
> >asking the folks at Slick Magnetos if I can do away with the vibrator
> >(actually, I don't have it and would like to avoid buying it unless I
know
> >it is necessary). Thanks in advance for your response.
>
> Yes, you can use this magneto just as if it were
> a non-impulse coupled magneto. Just ignore the
> second breaker points connection used in the
> shower-of-sparks system. You'll use the advanced
> set of points to time the magneto for normal operations.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF) when
"looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to terminate
it
with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC current)
ohm
meter.
Actually the cable can be viewed as a combination of an infinite number of small
capacitors and coils whose resistances to radio frequencies combine into the 50
ohms
over a wide frequency range.
The "ohm" rating of a coax cable is determined by a relation of the diameters of
the
inner conductor and the outer conductor (shield) and the material separating the
two,
if I'm not mistaken.
Bottom line, you cannot determine the radio frequency "ohm" rating of a cable by
using an ohm meter.
Finn
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> Exactly what does it mean when coax is described as 50 ohm impedence? Is
> this some sort of standard test of a standard length? (I know, just build
> it and fly it, don't worry about this type of thing) This clearly is only
> curiosity on my part.
>
> Also, I found a 90 degree BNC male/BNC female connector at RS, which works
> perfectly for belly mount antennas. I am (appropriately) skeptical of most
> RS stuff, but how important is a fitting like this for optimum radio
> operation?
>
> Thanks,
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> 6A
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> 50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF)
when
> "looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to
terminate it
> with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC
current) ohm
> meter.
Thanks, Finn. However, your reply basically amplified my question.
Impedence, an AC function of resistance, capacitance and inductance, is very
much dependent on the frequency applied. Hence, my original question of how
the 50 ohm impedence is determined, perhaps at some specific frequency?
I'll research further and post the findings.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Fast-On Terminal Crimping |
For Bob Nuckolls:
I bought an Amp Pro-Crimper II, tool part # 58433-3,
w/ die part # 58423-1, some time ago to handle my
crimping requirements for ring and fast-on terminals.
It's description says "Insulated terminals & splices
(PIDG, Plasti-grip)". It has worked great so far
except, imagine my surprise and consternation when I
noticed the little '*' and read that it is "not for
use with PIDG FASTON receptacles".
I called AMP and they confirmed the information and
said I have to use another crimper (cost &
aggravation, etc).
My questions. How can you get adequate crimping
performance for ring terminals, splices, AND fastons
out of the crimper you sell when AMP does not? What
do you recommend I do for the many faston crimps
needed for implementing AeroElectric (your) guidance?
Thanks for the AeroElectric Connection. It's a
terrific resource.
Mike Deeter
Velocity RG (3.5 years and counting)
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> Nuckolls, III"
>
> Larkin
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >I was looking over your wiring diagrams and it
> >occurred to me that one could simplify the
> essential
> >bus system by just putting a diode and fuse
> together
> >in parallel with the battery contactor. Then you
> only
> >need one bus, there's one less switch on the panel,
> >less wire, but you still have the option of turning
> on
> >selected equipment while not sacrificing 1 amp to
> the
> >battery contactor. Plus you don't have to decide
> >ahead of time what's essential and what's not.
>
> Not sure what you're suggesting here. If you
> jumpered the contactor with a diode/fuse combo,
> how would you shut the thing off to make the
> bus cold?
>
> What's so difficult to decide? Have you read
> chapter 17?
>
>
> >The only drawback I can see is when you're in
> >limp-home mode your diode is using up some precious
> >power. Is this serious and can you think of any
> other
> >drawbacks?
>
> Not sure I understand your idea. You can fax a
> sketch to 316.685.8617 and we'll talk about
> it.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than
> knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives
> formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein
> )
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
> and through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: essential bus system |
Bob Nuckolls:
I purchased the continuous duty contactor for use as
an OV contactor (I have the regulator built-in to my
alternator). The AeroElectric schematics do not show
the jumper which arrived already installed on the
contactor? Do I remove the jumper?
Mike Deeter (mechanical engineer, electrical novice)
Velocity RG
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Alex: A coaxial cable's characteristic impedance is not frequency-dependent.
(Cable losses are!)
To complicate things, there are frequency-specific effects where a resonant
length of coax serves as a transformer and reflects back to the transmitter
whatever load (open, short, whatever) is seen at the far end. This can be
put to use for matching a 52 ohm transmitter to a 150 ohm loop antenna
through a chosen length of, say, 75 ohm coax spliced in the feedline. Such a
set-up will only work perfectly at one frequency. For most other
applications, the frequency of the energy in a coaxial cable doesn't really
matter much, except that attenuation rises with frequency for all types of
cable.
That's about all I ever knew about this topic, so I hope it helps; maybe Bob
will weigh in here, or the rest of the ham operators on the list.
-Bill B
RV-6A flying
considering change-over to hidden wingtip antennas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
With a properly terminated cable it should be 50 ohms over a very large frequency
range. In order to avoid loss in your lines you should use 50 ohm connectors as
well.
This gets more critical the higher you go (e.g. GPS frequencies in the GHz range).
Generally, the thicker the coax cable the less loss it has.
Finn
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> > 50 ohms is the "resistance" seen by radio frequencies (HF, VHF and UHF)
> when
> > "looking" into a 50 ohm cable (of infinite length - thus the need to
> terminate it
> > with a "50 ohm" antenna). It is NOT what you would measure with an (DC
> current) ohm
> > meter.
>
> Thanks, Finn. However, your reply basically amplified my question.
> Impedence, an AC function of resistance, capacitance and inductance, is very
> much dependent on the frequency applied. Hence, my original question of how
> the 50 ohm impedence is determined, perhaps at some specific frequency?
>
> I'll research further and post the findings.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> 6A
>
> ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
>
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Wing antenna wires |
I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing tip
antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid
interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip
lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing
ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill
the correct holes for the correct grommets?
Thanks,
Kim Nicholas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Bob N.
I am hooking up one of your isolator diodes, the one that isolates
the main bus from the essential bus. It is not clear to me as to how the
terminals should be connected. I understand that the + of the diode goes
to the e-bus and that the AC goes to the main bus, but there are two AC
terminals. I am also looking at figure Z1 in your book that shows the
diode block. Does it matter which AC diode terminal is connected to the
main bus? If not fine. If it does matter then I would need to know if
the correct terminal is in the clockwise or counterclockwise corner of
the diode block as you look at the terminals. Is there a way to check
which terminal is which?
Thanks,
Rick D.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Bob N. and/or others,
I have about 20 ground connections located on the left side of my
panel. The grounds are from the engine instruments, their lights and
misc warning lights. Can these ground wires be consolidated at the left
side (i.e. close by the instruments and lights) and then run one large
wire (12 ga) back to the common ground block which is located on the
opposite side of the aircraft? Will there be ground loop or interference
problems with this arrangement. The wires would be consolidated at the
left onto a terminal board of some sort. Any and all comments will be
appreciated.
Thank you,
Rick D.
Murphy Rebel N754SM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: isolator diode |
Richard,
Maybe this will help. http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s401-25.jpg
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:11 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: isolator diode
>
> Bob N.
> I am hooking up one of your isolator diodes, the one that isolates
> the main bus from the essential bus. It is not clear to me as to how the
> terminals should be connected. I understand that the + of the diode goes
> to the e-bus and that the AC goes to the main bus, but there are two AC
> terminals. I am also looking at figure Z1 in your book that shows the
> diode block. Does it matter which AC diode terminal is connected to the
> main bus? If not fine. If it does matter then I would need to know if
> the correct terminal is in the clockwise or counterclockwise corner of
> the diode block as you look at the terminals. Is there a way to check
> which terminal is which?
> Thanks,
> Rick D.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob N. and/or others,
> I have about 20 ground connections located on the left side of my
>panel. The grounds are from the engine instruments, their lights and
>misc warning lights. Can these ground wires be consolidated at the left
>side (i.e. close by the instruments and lights) and then run one large
>wire (12 ga) back to the common ground block which is located on the
>opposite side of the aircraft? Will there be ground loop or interference
>problems with this arrangement. The wires would be consolidated at the
>left onto a terminal board of some sort. Any and all comments will be
>appreciated.
>Thank you,
>Rick D.
>Murphy Rebel N754SM
Not generally a good idea. First there is the possiblity
for interaction between systems sharing the ground wire
but more importantly, you have lots of goodies depending on
one piece of hardware. Why didn't you put the ground block
on the firewall and tie your engine bond strap and battery
minus cables to a common bolt along with grounds for all the
panel mounted goodies?
How do you connect all the ground up on the right side of
the airplane?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wing antenna wires |
>
>I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing tip
>antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid
>interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip
>lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing
>ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill
>the correct holes for the correct grommets?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kim Nicholas
Figure 1/4" o.d. for coaxial cable used to wire antennas.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
Subject: | Re: Wing antenna wires |
Hi Kim,
go and buy the coax, then get the grommets to suit
making sure they don't crush the coax or be too loose
so as to flop around, then you should be able to drill
the correct size hole. If the coax insulation is squeezed
it can change the electrical properties and lead to other troubles
so be carefull of that.
Recently I helped a friend install a Garmin 100 in his RV 4
and he used the plastic pushin type grommets which worked
great however he overdrilled a few holes and the little plastic
tabs didn't hold the grommet firmly in the hole. Maybe do a few
test holes before drilling the ribs. Also thinkabout what the
grommet is made from as it can get "very" hot inside the wing
in direct sun etc.
Bruce Stewart
>>I am working on the wings for my RV9A and plan to run the Bob Archer wing
tip
>>antenna wires seperately from the power wires for lights. (To avoid
>>interference). I am planning on using a light conduid for teh wing tip
>>lights, landing lights and pitot heat but use grommets through the wing
>>ribs for the antenna wires. What size are the antenna wires so I can drill
>>the correct holes for the correct grommets?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Kim Nicholas
>
> Figure 1/4" o.d. for coaxial cable used to wire antennas.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Multiple circuits in one conduit |
I am building a Lancair ES, and will have
position lights, strobe lights, landing lights
and nav antenna all out on the end of the wing.
Does anyone know if all these circuits can be ran
in the same conduit? Doesn't the coax for the
nav antenna have shielding to shield EMI from,
in particular, the strobe cable? The strobe
power supply will be mounted in the fuselage.
What other options are there?
Thanks......Mike
=====
LNCE N811ES 5%
arrow54t(at)yahoo.com
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
AEROELECTRIC-LIST
From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit |
What type of coax where you going to use for the
nav antenna?
Bruce
>
>
>I am building a Lancair ES, and will have
>position lights, strobe lights, landing lights
>and nav antenna all out on the end of the wing.
>Does anyone know if all these circuits can be ran
>in the same conduit? Doesn't the coax for the
>nav antenna have shielding to shield EMI from,
>in particular, the strobe cable? The strobe
>power supply will be mounted in the fuselage.
>What other options are there?
>
>Thanks......Mike
>
>=====
>LNCE N811ES 5%
>arrow54t(at)yahoo.com
>
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Two Batteries in Parallel? |
Bob Nuckolls:
I recently purchased 2 RG batteries to put in my
Velocity. I did so for purely maintenance rotation
reasons since I have 2 mags. I'd planned to simply
wire them in parallel, w/ the rest of wiring as in
your Z1 diagram. Is that OK or must I use an aux
battery contactor and switch as in your diagram Z2?
Thanks.....Mike Deeter, Velocity RG
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 01/26/01 |
> Not generally a good idea. First there is the possiblity
> for interaction between systems sharing the ground wire
> but more importantly, you have lots of goodies depending on
> one piece of hardware. Why didn't you put the ground block
> on the firewall and tie your engine bond strap and battery
> minus cables to a common bolt along with grounds for all the
> panel mounted goodies?
>
> How do you connect all the ground up on the right side of
> the airplane?
>
> Bob . . .
>
> __________
Bob Nuckolls, Jerry C.
Jerry, Thanks that answers the diode terminal question.
Bob,
Thank you for the insight to the grounding issues. I have one of your ground
blocks mounted on
the upper right side of the firewall near where the battery is located. I was hoping
to minimize
all of the ground wires required to get to the ground block. It is no big deal
for me to run these
wires as I believe there are 48 fast-ons there and I suspected that individual
wires was the way
to go.
Rick D.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Subject: | Switch for the turn coordinator |
Hi all
I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was
wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft.
My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason
why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or
should not put this on its own switch.
Thanks,
Paul McAllister
Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit |
Bruce,
I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax.
Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the
other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help
shield any EMI? Mike
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
Bob: No doubt this is a dumb question but can the flag style Amp or
Panduit Faston terminals (P 183 and 185 of Mouser catalog) be crimped with a
regular style crimping tool or do they require something different? Thanks.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Switch for the turn coordinator |
From: | "Denis (Bum) Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
on 1/26/01 23:04, Paul McAllister at pma(at)obtero.net wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was
> wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft.
>
> My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason
> why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or
> should not put this on its own switch.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul McAllister
> Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
>
> Well here is my opinion.
Something as important as the turn coordinator should have its own circuit
protection, as should most components of your panel.
The only argument for putting a switch on the turn coordinator is to
facilitate trouble shooting when not flying, and possibly to be able to turn
it off to conserve power during a limp home scenario with day vfr
conditions. Otherwise wire it hot (through a fuse or breaker) to the master
switched power and plan on limping home either with it on or with the master
switch off.
I used a pullable circuit breaker.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Switch for the turn coordinator |
Paul -
I think the switch is for preserving instrument life(dollars), for
those who fly mostly VFR. It won't be used for VFR flight but if
visibility deteriorates you can turn it on and have a gyro to help
keep the wings level. I will put a switch in for my T/C if I install
one.
I too would like to hear from others on this matter.
Bill Mills
RANS S-7/912 in progress
Castro Valley, Ca. (SF bay area)
>
>Hi all
>
>I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was
>wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft.
>
>My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason
>why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or
>should not put this on its own switch.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul McAllister
>Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Switch for the turn coordinator |
--- William Mills wrote:
>
>
> Paul -
>
> I think the switch is for preserving instrument life(dollars), for
> those who fly mostly VFR. It won't be used for VFR flight but if
> visibility deteriorates you can turn it on and have a gyro to help
> keep the wings level. I will put a switch in for my T/C if I install
> one.
> I too would like to hear from others on this matter.
I have read threads on this topic and one point comes up. What is
happening to your gyro when there is no power applied? It's not like
these things are computer hard drives (power off, they land the head
and lock up) - would that gyro would be free to flop around during your
VFR maneuvering?
With power applied, at least it will be stabilized during flight.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Panel
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> |
Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to
that which comes on Electric Bob's unit. I found one source, but I'd have
to buy 100 strips of 5. I'd also like to know a source for the 3/8" brass
bolts.
I found plenty of brass plates at a local salvage depot.
Thanks in advance.
Tom Barnes -6 electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
In a message dated 1/27/01 12:28:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, HCRV6(at)aol.com
writes:
<< lag style Amp or
Panduit Faston terminals (P 183 and 185 of Mouser catalog) be crimped with a
regular style crimping tool or do they require something different? >>
Hi Harry: Flags cannot be crimped in a regular crimpre. Reason being is you
will crush the female quik on section with the forward area of the dies.
The best solution I've found is to buy a cheap pair of crimpers and grind the
jaws back to where they will allow you to crimp without damaging the Q/O
area. So if you are doing Reds and blue, you'll ned 2 cheapos.
Best regards,
John @ Terminal Town's Home Page!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Grounding Block |
In a message dated 1/27/01 2:50:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skytop(at)corecomm.net writes:
<< Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to
that which comes on Electric Bob's unit >>
Terminal Town's
/Electrical Connector/Terminal blocks or
http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page99.html. They are called U-90's. Scroll
down the page.
Best regards,
John @ Terminal Town's Home Page!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Grounding Block |
Have you checked Terminaltown.com?
Kevin
-9A wiring
> Does anyone have a source for the 1/4" "U" shaped grounding lugs similar to
> that which comes on Electric Bob's unit. I found one source, but I'd have
> to buy 100 strips of 5. I'd also like to know a source for the 3/8" brass
> bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
>
>In a message dated 1/27/01 4:06:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>Terminaltown(at)aol.com writes:
>
><< Flags cannot be crimped in a regular crimper. Reason being is you will
>crush the female quik on section with the forward area of the dies. >>
>
>
>Thanks John. That is exactly what I was afraid I was going to hear. It's
>interesting that in the Mouser catalog they show an Amp crimper on the same
>page as the flag terminals and it says it will crimp "all" terminals. You
>can't believe anything you read anymore.
Also, be aware of your proposed terminal's ability
to provide insulation support in addition to the
electrical connection at the wire grip. There
are lots of terminals out there that are attractive
for their variety and special features but fall
short when it comes to long service life in an
vehicle that shakes a lot. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
The terminals you put on wires should have metallic
grips both on the wire for electrical connection and
the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Grounding Block |
Dear Bob,
Jerry Carter told me that you have an electric primer system. But, I could not
find it on your page. Can you help? Getting tired of putting my engine to sleep
with ether.
ersf2b(at)oregoncoast.com Ed Storo
Ed,
I don't have a "system" for sale but I've written in my book about my
own fondest wishes for a primer system.
The Beech BE-77 Skipper was my training airplane when
I learned to fly. It had an electric primer system consisting
of a simple electric valve in a line that tee'd off the
downstream side of the electric boost pump. An extra contact
in the ignition switch would close when pushed in while
holding the key in the START position.
This dumped fuel into the primer system while the engine
was drawing air during cranking. For an airplane with
a carburetor priming line, it was ESSENTIAL that fuel
enter the engine while cranking so that it was drawn into
the induction system rather than dribble out the carburetor
air duct.
Having read dozens of stories about pilots who limped their
airplanes with compromised fuel delivery to safe landings with
repeated strokes on a primer pump, I theorized that the primer
system might be enhanced as follows:
Install a 4-port primer system that dumps fuel into the
manifold right outside the intake valve for each cylinder.
Plumb it up with an electric valve tapped into the pressure
side of your boost pump . . . better yet, provide a separate
pump plumbed directly to a tank that you plan to empty last
during the course of normal flight operations. The enhancement
comes from adding a needle valve in the line that you calibrate
on the ground for a fuel flow rate in the 55-65% power range
for your engine.
Now, if you loose primary fuel flow, you may pull the carb
back to idle-cuttoff mixture, shut of the primary fuel flow
system, turn on the primer and then adjust throttle (which
has now become a mixture control) for smoothest running
engine.
The electric valve is available from Aircraft Spruce. The pump is
your garden variety FAWCET solid-state pump. You'd need to track
down a needle valve from a hydraulic systems parts supplier.
It needs to be a small one . . . take a look at some of the
larger valves available from aquarium supplies stores used to
set up air flows.
(Be sure to safety the valve position after you've set it for
proper fuel flow).
In the past 13 years since I first published that idea,
two builders have told me that the system worked to save their
bacon AND the airplane when a failure occurred in their
primary fuel delivery systems.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Switch for the turn coordinator |
>
>on 1/26/01 23:04, Paul McAllister at pma(at)obtero.net wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I am building the switch panel for my Europa at the moment and I was
>> wondering why the turn coordinator has a separate switch in some aircraft.
>>
>> My Comanche has one, but my C150 didn't. I can't think of a valid reason
>> why I should fit on. Can anyone offer some suggestions on why I should or
>> should not put this on its own switch.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul McAllister
>> Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
>>
>> Well here is my opinion.
Older T/C instruments used brush type DC motors . . . very
low current but non-the-less . . . subject to brush wear.
However, most of the failures of these instruments to come
on line happen when you first power up . . . a commutator that
sits for long periods of time not being used tend to corrode
and loose contact with the brush. Given the low current, low
torque nature of these motors, they are most likely to fail
from dis-use than from gross wearout. I'd run one of these
guys all the time and overhaul it every 200 hours or 4 years,
which ever comes first.
Modern T/C instruments have brushless motors and solid state
inverters to drive them. There is no value in leaving this
kind of instrument shut down with some notion of "saving it
until I need it most". You need to KNOW when this guy has
died and letting it run all the time (like 99% of all type
certificated aircraft) is the best bet.
Remember, your making bets against a double failure in the
same given 4-hour flight. When you're dealing with a vacuum
system, you have a single failure that can bring down both
gyro instruments. The probability of double failure is probably
pretty high on TC aircraft compared to OwnerBuildAndMaintained
(OBAM) aircraft. TC aircraft owners put of EVERY bit of maintenance
they can for as long as they can 'cause the checkbook takes
a heavy hit whenever anyone legally works on the airplane.
You guys can and should consider preventative maintenance
activities that would shock the C-172 owner. You can
do it yourself for a fraction of the cost and benefit
from system reliability two to ten times better than
the what the SpamCan drive enjoys.
>Something as important as the turn coordinator should have its own circuit
>protection, as should most components of your panel.
I've published thousands of words on this topic. An
excellent synopsis of all these works can be found in
chapter 17 of The AeroElectric Connection.
>The only argument for putting a switch on the turn coordinator is to
>facilitate trouble shooting when not flying, and possibly to be able to turn
>it off to conserve power during a limp home scenario with day vfr
>conditions. Otherwise wire it hot (through a fuse or breaker) to the master
>switched power and plan on limping home either with it on or with the master
>switch off.
Please don't do this . . . it's a narrow focus solution
for a problem that is unlikely to happen in YOUR airplane.
One of the most difficult tasks you face as an OBAM
aircraft owner is how to quit thinking like a SpamCan
owner. A flight-systems approach to power distribution
is not difficult to deduce and implement on your airplane.
Let's make decisions on knowledge, understanding and
wisdom, not on worry.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Essential Bus alt feed |
I started hooking up the alternate feed to the essential bus according to the
drawings and then went back to the book to verify the size wire for the
fusable link. The apparent rule is to use 4 sizes smaller wire for the link,
and the drawing shows a 20 AWG feeding a 14 AWG to the fuse block. Please
excuse my ignorance, as I am electrically challenged, Isnt 18 AWG 4 sizes
smaller than 14 AWG, or am I missing something?
Thanks in advance
Kevin Shannon
RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
In a message dated 1/28/01 8:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< The terminals you put on wires should have metallic grips both on the wire
for electrical connection and the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp. >>
Thanks for the reminder Bob. I got momentarily intrigued with those flag
terminals.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit |
>
>Bruce,
>I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax.
> Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the
>other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help
>shield any EMI? Mike
Don't worry about it. However, I would recommend RG-400
as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses silver-plated
double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is
an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality.
It uses polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer
allowed in certificated aircraft.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Vince Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit |
Bob,
I am also considering a wing tip antenna installation in an RV-8A. I
have Aeroflash strobes with individual power supplies mounted at each
wing tip. The connection from the power supply to the strobe is
unshielded wire about 8" long. Will this short piece of unshielded
lead radiate into the nearby Nav antenna? If so, is there anything
that I can do about it or do I have to give up on a wing tip Nav
antenna?
Vince Welch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multiple circuits in one conduit
>
> >
> >Bruce,
> >I am planning on using the regular RG-58/AU coax.
> > Would that be a problem? What if I wrapped the
> >other wires in aluminum foil? Would that help
> >shield any EMI? Mike
>
>
> Don't worry about it. However, I would recommend RG-400
> as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses silver-plated
> double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is
> an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality.
> It uses polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer
> allowed in certificated aircraft.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple circuits in one conduit |
>
>Bob,
>
>I am also considering a wing tip antenna installation in an RV-8A. I
>have Aeroflash strobes with individual power supplies mounted at each
>wing tip. The connection from the power supply to the strobe is
>unshielded wire about 8" long. Will this short piece of unshielded
>lead radiate into the nearby Nav antenna? If so, is there anything
>that I can do about it or do I have to give up on a wing tip Nav
>antenna?
>
>Vince Welch
Go ahead and run the wires together. If there IS a noise
problem due to proximity of wiring it's not hard to
fix after you've test flown the setup.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Two Batteries in Parallel? |
>
>Bob Nuckolls:
>
>I recently purchased 2 RG batteries to put in my
>Velocity. I did so for purely maintenance rotation
>reasons since I have 2 mags. I'd planned to simply
>wire them in parallel, w/ the rest of wiring as in
>your Z1 diagram. Is that OK or must I use an aux
>battery contactor and switch as in your diagram Z2?
>
>Thanks.....Mike Deeter, Velocity RG
>
>
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
You can do that okay.
BTW, your radio ships from the distributor tomorrow.
I'm mailing the harness and wiring diagram from here
tomorrow morning also.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)JohnDeere.com> |
<<>>
If you look at how the diodes are connected internal to the bridge assembly,
you will see that either of the AC terminals will provide the needed
function.
Just don't hook up the bridge assemblies as shown in Z-4 or Z-6. The spike
catching diode function messes up the cross feed contactor function.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | UMA instrument lighting |
I wanted to give UMA a positive plug regarding their electroluminescent
instrument lighting and their customer service. These light units fit
between the instrument and the panel, and direct lighting back onto the
instrument face. The evenness of the light, and the ability to dim quite
low while retaining easy reading of the instrument is as good as it gets.
Price is much better than getting incandescent backlights built into the
instrument.
Long after I had thrown away the packaging for the four units I'd purchased
from Aircraft Spruce, I realized that I should have gotten different color
lights (the ones I bought had light blue, and the other instruments have
green backlighting). I called UMA, and they said send them back and they'd
send green ones, no charge. I offered to pay shipping, they said no
problem, they'll cover it. Got 'em back today.
Alex Peterson (sitting in the dark workshop looking at cool panel lights)
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
Harry- I sent you that last message before I read Bob's message and your
comment. Not sure what I will do now- perhaps use some heavy duty heat
shrink as strain relief?
Have you been to Bob's seminar? Ralph Bookout
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
>
> In a message dated 1/28/01 8:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
> << The terminals you put on wires should have metallic grips both on the
wire
> for electrical connection and the wire's insulation adjacent to the crimp.
>>
>
> Thanks for the reminder Bob. I got momentarily intrigued with those flag
> terminals.
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, finish kit stuff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Subject: | Alternator Questions |
Bob,
I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all
electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit with
an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm
hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with external
regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the
possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator
regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation
community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the
following questions:
1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an
alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain effect
the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach?
2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators
utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF)
better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent failure
modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach?
3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against
internal regulators?
Fred Stucklen
N925RV (1730 hrs/7.75 Yrs)
E. Windsor, CT 06088
WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>Bob,
>
> I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all
>electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit with
>an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm
>hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with external
>regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the
>possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator
>regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation
>community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the
>following questions:
>
>1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an
>alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain effect
>the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach?
No
>2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators
>utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF)
>better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent failure
>modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach?
An alternator with a built in regulator is probably
MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . .
More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However,
internal regulators generally do not include ov protection
to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition.
>3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against
>internal regulators?
If the FAA had an opinion on this topic, it would have no
more validity than another opinion based on physics and logic.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:34:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> An alternator with a built in regulator is probably
> MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . .
> More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However,
> internal regulators generally do not include ov protection
> to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition.
>
Hi Bob
If I use an internally regulated alternator and incorporate your your crowbar
OV protector (which I already have) into the field lead as shown on your
drawing would this be a good setup? Or would I be better off finding a non
regulated one and use the "Ford" regulator? Most of the vendors I have gotten
price quotes from are selling internally regulated units.
Thanks in advance
Kevin Shannon -9A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Subject: | External Power Receptical- RV6A |
Does any one see any problems with mounting a Piper style external power
receptacle in the bottom of the cowl over to one side?
I'm looking for a spot where the wire run will be short which rules out
inside the cabin. The backside (of the receptacle) is too big, I feel the
closest spot to put it inside would be behind F604.
BTY, this thing is heavy! Probably not for those trying to build a light,
simple aerobatic ship.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Alternator Questions |
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions
Thread-Index: AcCKxkOMoeDNPI0cQyq37+XV7DYZogAHWzGg
From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Bob,
Since we're on the subject, I just ordered the Niagara nippondenso
40-amp alternator kit. Seems to be a good value. After 75 hours my
Van's alternator is showing signs of pending failure (whine in the
intercom which increases/decreases in pitch whenever power is changed,
becomes louder when I turn things on like lights, goes away completely
when I pull the alternator breaker.) It is my understanding that the
internal regulator is set to a higher voltage on the Niagara, but they
claim that it shouldn't have an effect on battery life. Is this true?
Looking over your drawing on OV protection for externally regulated
alternators, what diode is recommended for use with the solenoid setup?
I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this
scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is
to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this
that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a
runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned
the need for it.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC [mailto:stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:58 AM
> To: 'aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions
>
>
> IFC"
>
> Bob,
>
> I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest
> RV-6A (IFR, all
> electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf
> automotive unit with
> an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection
> unit. I'm
> hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach
> with external
> regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the
> possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator
> regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation
> community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the
> following questions:
>
> 1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an
> alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into
> heavy rain effect
> the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach?
> 2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with
> alternators
> utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF)
> better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any
> inherent failure
> modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach?
> 3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external
> regulators or against
> internal regulators?
>
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV (1730 hrs/7.75 Yrs)
> E. Windsor, CT 06088
> WK Email: stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com
> Hm/Travel Email: wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
In a message dated 1/29/01 10:59:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes:
<< Harry- I am going to use the flag fast-ons. >>
I guess I'm on the fence about using them now Ralph. You are no doubt
correct about no fatigue failures in our lifetimes, especially at the rate of
progress I am making lately while I struggle with the question of what fuses
to use, what to do about power buses, where to mount both, etc., etc. Seems
like I can't get off dead center lately on these issues. What did or do you
plan to do in that area?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
In a message dated 1/29/01 11:06:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes:
<< use some heavy duty heat shrink as strain relief? Have you been to Bob's
seminar? >>
That's what I would definitely do if I decide to use them. In fact maybe a
double layer with the outer one longer and overlapping the inner would
provide adequate strain relief. Or does that sound like overkill to you?
No, and I wish now that I had. I have his book but it hasn't been much help
in solving the question of what fuses, etc.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
For this application what would you recommend for over voltage protection?
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Alternator Questions |
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions
Thread-Index: AcCKxkOMoeDNPI0cQyq37+XV7DYZogAHWzGgAAjeArAFrom: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Ooops...meant "internally", not "externally"...
Bob
> Looking over your drawing on OV protection for externally regulated
> alternators, what diode is recommended for use with the
> solenoid setup?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Alternator Questions |
>
>
>I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this
>scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is
>to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this
>that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a
>runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned
>the need for it.
FWIW, *I* have seen OV conditions in automobiles. Had one drive in one day
that had nearly every bulb in the vehicle burned out (that was our first
clue) and the acid was boiling out of the battery (our second clue). Nice
little ND 60 Amp alternator with internal regulator. Swapped out with a
Rebuilt and changed DOZENS of bulbs and they were on their way.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
Birmingham, AL
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Subject: | Re: UMA instrument lighting |
Bill, look in Aircraft Spruce's catalog, it is probably under lighting,
panel, or some such thing. They sandwich between the panel and the
instrument, cost about 35 bucks per instrument, plus a total of one small
inverter for a similar cost to run them. They run on 400hz ac, which this
little inverter makes. UMA also makes various panel instruments, I'm sure
they have a web site.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Medsker" <bmedsker(at)grm.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: UMA instrument lighting
> Who, what and where is UMA?? Thanks, Bill Medsker
>
> I wanted to give UMA a positive plug regarding their electroluminescent
> instrument lighting and their customer service. These light units fit
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Use of the 'lectric bob regulator |
Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your
regulator with OV
protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it
seems that the
sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main
distribution bus)
is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct?
If so, my
intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring
circuit (I'll
let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the
fact that I'd dare
use somebody else's product, does this make sense?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Search |
Hello,
I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection;
redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a 3lb., 9
amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or at least
close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available? If you know
the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions.
Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Questions
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> > I'm considering a 60 Amp Nippon alternator in my newest RV-6A (IFR, all
> >electric's) aircraft. I'd like to use an off-the-shelf automotive unit
with
> >an internal regulator and an external over voltage protection unit. I'm
> >hesitant of this approach (Vs the certified aircraft approach with
external
> >regulator and OV protection) because I don't fully understand all the
> >possible limitations and safety considerations of an in-the-alternator
> >regulator in an IFR aircraft. With your experience in the aviation
> >community, I'm hoping that you may be able to shed some light on the
> >following questions:
> >
> >1. Are there any weather or altitude related limitations of using an
> >alternator with in an internal regulator? Will flying into heavy rain
effect
> >the operation of the alternator any more than the certified approach?
>
> No
>
>
> >2. To your knowledge, are there any reliability issues with alternators
> >utilizing internal regulators? Is the meantime between failures (MTBF)
> >better or worse than the certified approach? Are there any inherent
failure
> >modes that might be worse than those found in the certified approach?
>
> An alternator with a built in regulator is probably
> MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . .
> More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However,
> internal regulators generally do not include ov protection
> to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition.
>
>
> >3. What are the FAA's arguments supporting external regulators or against
> >internal regulators?
>
> If the FAA had an opinion on this topic, it would have no
> more validity than another opinion based on physics and logic.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
One of my customers brought me a 1990 Lumina earlier this month with an
intermittent stalling and rough running problem. The alternator had over volted.
It distroyed the ECM (engine computer) and the TPS (throttle position sensor) in
the process. That was a VERY expensive alternator.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fuselage
Boca Raton, Fl.
> >I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this
> >scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is
> >to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this
> >that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a
> >runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned
> >the need for it.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca> |
For Charlie
(I tried e-mailing you directly but I kept getting a delivery error.)
Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig
Wag flasher
circuits. It's a simple design using the very
common 555
timer. Jim Weir of RST Engineering also has a couple of landing light
flasher
designs but are a little more complex. I've tested Bob's flasher for
many
continuous hours with no problem. If you think I can help you with
anything, let me know.
Good Luck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W Livingston" <jliving(at)erinet.com> |
Subject: | Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
Harry,
Have you thought of putting a dab of clear silicone caulk in the end of
the fast on. That should fix the fatique problem and allow you to use what
you have.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
HCRV6(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping of flag style faston terminals
In a message dated 1/29/01 10:59:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
theslumlord(at)mediaone.net writes:
<< Harry- I am going to use the flag fast-ons. >>
I guess I'm on the fence about using them now Ralph. You are no doubt
correct about no fatigue failures in our lifetimes, especially at the rate
of
progress I am making lately while I struggle with the question of what fuses
to use, what to do about power buses, where to mount both, etc., etc. Seems
like I can't get off dead center lately on these issues. What did or do you
plan to do in that area?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Alternator Question - Dual regulators |
I have already purchased a 55 Amp ND alternator which is internally
regulated. I also plan to have a Ford external regulator AND a Crowbar
over voltage protector. I wanted the Ford external regulator because it
can be adjusted to a particular voltage.
Can I run the setup with both regulators operating or do I need to
rewire the alternator to take the internal regulator out of the circuit?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Subject: | Re: Crimping of flag style faston terminals |
Hi all,
I have had a little experience with this. Any of the silicone products that
have an acetic acid component will cause electrical connections to corrode.
Give it the sniff test, if it smells like vinegar then don't use it.
Paul
> Harry,
>
> Have you thought of putting a dab of clear silicone caulk in the end of
> the fast on. That should fix the fatique problem and allow you to use
what
> you have.
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Question - Dual regulators |
>
>I have already purchased a 55 Amp ND alternator which is internally
>regulated. I also plan to have a Ford external regulator AND a Crowbar
>over voltage protector. I wanted the Ford external regulator because it
>can be adjusted to a particular voltage.
>
>Can I run the setup with both regulators operating or do I need to
>rewire the alternator to take the internal regulator out of the circuit?
The internal regulator needs to be bypassed and the brushes
rewired to take one brush to case ground and the other out
to one of terminals on the back for wiring to your regulator.
Unless you have some experience with this, I'd recommend you
use the alternator as is and add the ov module and alternator
disconnect relay to provide effective ov protection. You may
find the existing regulator adequate as is.
The ND alternator has potential for being a VERY long lived
piece of machinery . . . inattention to details and/or in-
experience with the modification could cost more than
it benefits.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Flasher |
>
>For Charlie
>Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig
>Wag flasher
>circuits.
Here are some of the features and benefits of the WigWag Solid State
Controller that we designed and now have in production.
1. Improve safety by being seen and noticed. We have set the wigwag flash
rate longer then automotive flashers so that the bulbs come up to full
brightness. This means that you will be seen from a greater distance. The
police car behind you with a fast flash rate does not need to be seen from
miles away. The alternating WigWag pattern will significantly improve
being recognized. We have been conditioned to notice movement and the
flash at one wing tip followed by the flash at the other wing tip creates
apparent motion. This apparent motion is most important when approaching
another plane head on where without the wigwag pattern there is no apparent
motion.
2. Additional safety. The WigWag has two 12 Volt power inputs that are
redundant. Two fuses or circuit breakers are connected to the WigWag; one
for the right light and one for the left light. If one of the wires to one
of these bulbs fails and blows its circuit breaker or fuse, the WigWag
controller continues to function and the other bulb remains
operational. It would be sad to have two leading edge lights installed and
land in the dark because the flasher circuit in the plane was not redundant.
3. Simple easy to install wiring. Two wires are connected to the master bus
and one wire is connected to ground. Two wires are connected to the leading
edge lights. Three wires are connected to the switches. The WigWag is
assembled in a 2 by 2 by 5.25 inch aluminum case. Four #8 mounting holes
are provided.
4. Reduced cost. Bulbs last longer and require less maintenance time
because the WigWag includes a bulb filament warmer. Warm filaments are
more ductile and less likely to break. Also, warm filaments reduce in-rush
current which increases bulb life.
5. More reduced cost. The WigWag is controlled by switches that turn on
functions by conducting only milli-amps to ground. Simple inexpensive
switches can be used to turn on and off these functions. These functions
are: Turn on the left leading edge light. Turn on the right leading edge
light, Turn on the alternating WigWag pattern. Since just about any
switch can handle millliamp current specifications, builders select a wide
range of switches. This means that any switch you put on your panel can be
used to command the WigWag and that means that you can operate the WigWag
Solid State Controller with the same style switches used on the rest of
your panel.
Other WigWag circuit designs require:
a. Two switches that can carry large currents, S700-2-10, $20 each = $40 total.
b. A component that generates the alternating flash function, This is
typically a Galls Flasher, FS-033, for $49.99 or an LM555 timer circuit
costing about $10 plus 2 relays, S704-1 ($10 each) about $30 total.
c. Plus a proto-typing circuit board, proto-typing case and other misc
components - $10 to $15.
Grand Total $80 to $100
There are many more features. To view an Adobe Acrobat data sheet for the
WigWag Solid State Controller including pictures go to:
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
The WigWag Solid State Controller is now available with four to six week
delivery for $90 plus $6 shipping and handling. To place an order send a
check to Bob Haan at 14270 SW Koven Court, Tigard, OR 97224.
Send us an email stating that your check is in the mail and we will assign
you a position in the queue before your check arrives.
Safe flying and easy rewarding building,
Bob
Bob Haan
http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Search |
>
>Hello,
>
> I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection;
>redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a 3lb., 9
>amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or at least
>close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available? If you know
>the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Richard Swiderski
Find any NIPON-DIENSO alternator. The smallest will be in
the 35-40 amp range and weigh about 6 pounds. You'll have
to poke around in the junk yards and just measure for the
smallest (put a tape around the circumference and measure
the length of the body). An alternator overhaul shop could
probably tell you what cars have the smaller ND alternators
on them. They're easy to identify as there's an "ND" logo
embossed in the sheet metal of the rear cover.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>One of my customers brought me a 1990 Lumina earlier this month with an
>intermittent stalling and rough running problem. The alternator had over volted.
>It distroyed the ECM (engine computer) and the TPS (throttle position sensor)
in
>the process. That was a VERY expensive alternator.
>Charlie Kuss
>RV-8A fuselage
>Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>> >I'm debating whether or not I should even include OV protection in this
>> >scenario since it is more likely that the solenoid will fail than it is
>> >to have an OV condition. I have talked to a pilot friend about this
>> >that owns an alternator shop and in 20 years he's never heard of a
>> >runaway alternator frying all that's electrical in cars. He questioned
>> >the need for it.
I've seen dozens of cars over the years coming down the
road at me at night with very bright, almost blue-white
headlights (this was years before the modern high pressure
gas discharge lamps on current luxury cars). Internal regulators
DO fail in a variety of ways including over-voltage just like
external regulators do. If the contactor fails, then all you
have is a shut down alternator, not a toasted electrical system.
This is why you need the e-bus system and an alternate feed
path so that such an event is ho-hum . . . see chapter 17
of the 'Connection if you haven't already read it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator |
>
>Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of your
regulator with OV
>protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it
seems that the
>sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the main
distribution bus)
>is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I correct?
If so, my
>intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring
circuit (I'll
>let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite the
fact that I'd dare
>use somebody else's product, does this make sense?
>
>Mike
Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish
buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for
OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job,
the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you
would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it.
Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows
the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does
on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've
already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time.
Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those
"extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits.
You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by
clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this
tells you that the ov system is still working.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Flasher |
>
>
>>
>>For Charlie
>>Yes, the schematic is found on Bob's web site, under the topic of Wig
>>Wag flasher
>>circuits.
>
>Here are some of the features and benefits of the WigWag Solid State
>Controller that we designed and now have in production.
>
>Other WigWag circuit designs require:
>
>a. Two switches that can carry large currents, S700-2-10, $20 each = $40 total.
Not quite accurate.
Option 3 at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/aec_ww.pdf
requires only one S700-2-10, the other switch is a $5 S700-1-3
for a total of $25 for switches.
>b. A component that generates the alternating flash function, This is
>typically a Galls Flasher, FS-033, for $49.99 or an LM555 timer circuit
>costing about $10 plus 2 relays, S704-1 ($10 each) about $30 total.
Option 3 uses only one relay which is our S704-1. The components
for assembling the flasher and packaging it is less than $10.
>c. Plus a proto-typing circuit board, proto-typing case and other misc
>components - $10 to $15.
>
>Grand Total $80 to $100
Total for option 3 is closer to $45 . . .
Timing can be set to any flash rate the builder desires by
adjusting the resistor on the 555 timer circuit. Measurements
made on our bench with the circuit shown allow the bulb to reach
better than 90% of full intensity. Further, the flash rate is fast
enough that the bulb does not cool off between pulses so inrush
for each illumination cycle of the lamp is only 150 to 200% of
running current, not the 400-700% typical of a cold turn-on.
Option 3 is also redundant to the extent that the ONLY single
failure that takes out both lamp circuits is a short to ground
on the landing light circuit that would pop both fuses supplying
the two lamps. This is a VERY rare condition.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
'75-'79 Honda Civics use 35 amp or 45 amp(w/AC) ND alt. with an external reg.
'80-'83 Honda Civics use 50 amp ND alt. with an external reg.
All of the above have an external fan also.
Honda started using internal reg. and internal fans in '84, and it looks like
the lowest amp. alt with an internal reg. is 55.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>'75-'79 Honda Civics use 35 amp or 45 amp(w/AC) ND alt. with an external reg.
>'80-'83 Honda Civics use 50 amp ND alt. with an external reg.
>All of the above have an external fan also.
>Honda started using internal reg. and internal fans in '84, and it looks like
>the lowest amp. alt with an internal reg. is 55.
>
Try to find alternators with internal fans if possible.
The B&C L-40 is a current production part purchased
new from ND . . . don't know it's application in the
field. I'll see if I can find out.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>For this application what would you recommend for over voltage protection?
>Dennis Thomas
For alternators with built in regulators see
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
another example can be found at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z14.pdf
If your alternator uses an external regulator, Figure
Z-2 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/eratta/R9Z_0400.pdf
is and exemplar methodology.
All of the systems above use the crowbar OV
module now offered by B&C from a catalog/order
page on our website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>In a message dated 1/30/01 8:34:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
>> An alternator with a built in regulator is probably
>> MORE reliable than one with an external regulator . . .
>> More compact, less wiring, lower parts count. However,
>> internal regulators generally do not include ov protection
>> to guard against a small but potentially hazardous condition.
>>
>
>Hi Bob
>If I use an internally regulated alternator and incorporate your your crowbar
>OV protector (which I already have) into the field lead as shown on your
>drawing would this be a good setup? Or would I be better off finding a non
>regulated one and use the "Ford" regulator? Most of the vendors I have gotten
>price quotes from are selling internally regulated units.
The small wire going into the back of an alternator
with an internal regulator is NOT a field lead. That
wire is a simple control voltage to tell the regulator
to turn ON or turn OFF. If the regulator fails, then
it stops listening to commands from the outside and
nothing can be done to corral the runaway alternator
short of opening its power output lead as shown in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Question for Bob or the other electric Gurus out there. Is there anything
about the old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in.
glass fuses that precludes their use in my panel instead of circuit breakers
or the ATC fuse blocks that I know Bob highly recommends? For several
reasons, but primarily accessability, amount of panel space required, weight,
cost and I have concluded the panel mount holders will work best for me.
Unless of course there is some reason that I am unaware of that they are
unsuitable for use in aircraft applications. All thoughts or suggestions
will be appreciated.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse Holders |
>old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in.
> glass fuses
Old fashioned is right. Use the newer blades.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> >
> >Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of
your regulator with OV
> >protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it
seems that the
> >sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the
main distribution bus)
> >is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am I
correct? If so, my
> >intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring
circuit (I'll
> >let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite
the fact that I'd dare
> >use somebody else's product, does this make sense?
> >
> >Mike
>
> Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish
> buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for
> OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job,
> the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you
> would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it.
>
> Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows
> the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does
> on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've
> already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time.
> Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those
> "extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits.
> You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by
> clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this
> tells you that the ov system is still working.
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks Bob....good info, leading to the following..... If I leave off the ptt,
and I leave off the
light, then there's one line (pin 3) left out of the three I'm asking about. You
started your message
by saying hook up all three, then gave me enough info to decide myself about two
of them. Can you tell
me just a little more about this third line? If I read correctly, this grouping
of three lines really
just measures the low voltage situation that occurs after the OV trips (as evidenced
by the 3 amp "LO V
WARN" fuse at the bus). If so, and having decided to sacrifice the first two,
I'm not sure I need the
third either? If I do still need it, can I save a fuse by paralleling it off the
alt field breaker?
That is, what's the failure mode of this pin 3. (And yes, in this case, saving
one fuse makes a big
difference in my design).
Sorry to be dense.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse Holders |
>
>Question for Bob or the other electric Gurus out there. Is there anything
>about the old fashioned panel mount fuse holders that use 1/4 x 1 1/4 in.
>glass fuses that precludes their use in my panel instead of circuit breakers
>or the ATC fuse blocks that I know Bob highly recommends? For several
>reasons, but primarily accessability,
. . . why do you NEED access from the cockpit? If your system
is correctly configured then the ONLY reason for a fuse to
open is that something is BROKE . . . no point in putting in
a new fuse just to have it pop again.
> amount of panel space required,
Fuse blocks need not and should not use any
panel space . . .
> weight,
20 fuse holders and the bus bar you need to solder to them
are heavier than a 20-slot fuse block . . .
>
>cost
The HKP fuseholder is about $1.50 each making a 20
fuse array cost $30 and there's no bus bar. You have
to fabricate and attach your own plus fabricate the
fuse panel. A 20 slot fuse block mounts with 4 screws
and is ready to wire.
>and I have concluded the panel mount holders will work best for me.
>Unless of course there is some reason that I am unaware of that they are
>unsuitable for use in aircraft applications. All thoughts or suggestions
>will be appreciated.
The glass-cartridge fuse holder WAS used on all light
aircraft when electrical systems began to show up
in late 40's They are high surface area, low pressure
contact devices that proved troublesome after years in
service. Modern blade contact fuses are low area, very
high pressure contacts that resist corrosion. They're
a much superior to the cartridge fuse in an aircraft
environment.
As graduates of government approved, padded cockpit
schools of aircraft systems management we've been
led to believe there are pilot duties to be learned
for dealing with breakers on the panel. We've also
fallen victim to the hysteria of dark-and-stormy-
night stories that appear monthly in about every
journal that targets pilots of little airplanes.
If you can't sign up to the idea that your airplane
is NEVER going to suffer an electrical emergency
respectfully suggest we need to talk. Many aspects
of electrical systems in certified light aircraft
are DESIGNED to fail in ways that place a pilot
at a disadvantage. Your airplane can and
should be better than anything sprinkled with
bureaucratic holy water.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I am building an RV-4. How do I size the rest of the wiring that I am
>going to need (landing lights, trim, radios, flaps, etc.)?
>
>Regards,
>
>David Vaughan
Look up and know the current requirements for each
of your planned electrical accessories. Make up
a spread sheet either on paper or in your computer
that lists electrical loads for each of the gizmos
you plan to install.
You need to have separate columns for type of
operation. They might have headers like Taxi/Day,
Taxi/Night, Take/Off and Climb, Cruise Day, Cruise
Night, Cruise IFR, and Battery Only Ops.
See what the total continuous draw is for installed
equipment under each of these operating scenarios.
This is called an electrical load analysis. It's
not difficult. You need to look up information in
the books that come with your radios or ask questions
of folks who have the same stuff installed.
This is the FIRST step in designing your ship's
electrical system for it helps you size the alternator,
size the battery and plan for getting on the ground
comfortably when something breaks.
Have you made a list of all the electrical goodies
you plan to install?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James K. Glindemann" <jglind(at)netspace.net.au> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
Hi bob
just to throw another spanner in the works.
Do you know if there are significant modifications required to get the
Nippon Denso Alternators running at 28 volts? I am planning on this voltage
due to the aquisition of most of my avionics at the right price utilizing
this voltage. I can get a Bosch 28 volt alternator or a prestolite but they
are both significantly heavier and the ND is such a cute little thing.
Regards
James K Glindemann
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuse Holders |
Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web
address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an
order?
Howard Cochran
1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse Holders |
>
>Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web
>address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an
>order?
>
>Howard Cochran
>1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project
Sure, check out the catalog page at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Look in the section on Circuit Protection for FH
series fuse blocks. Click on of those links to
view the product. The catalog page is also an order
form.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>Hi bob
>
>just to throw another spanner in the works.
>
>Do you know if there are significant modifications required to get the
>Nippon Denso Alternators running at 28 volts? I am planning on this voltage
>due to the aquisition of most of my avionics at the right price utilizing
>this voltage. I can get a Bosch 28 volt alternator or a prestolite but they
>are both significantly heavier and the ND is such a cute little thing.
>
>Regards
>
>James K Glindemann
ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with
slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage
and full output. However, the field must be limited
to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It
just so happens that I designed such a critter for
B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at
316.283.8000
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Use of the 'lectric bob regulator |
>
>
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> >Hey Bob (or others with knowledge)......quick question regarding the use of
your regulator with OV
>> >protection. Referencing your Z1 schematic, and if I understand this correctly....it
seems that the
>> >sole purpose of pins 2,3 & 5 (which are hooked together on their way to the
main distribution bus)
>> >is to display the OV situation, and via the ptt button, test the lamp. Am
I correct? If so, my
>> >intention is to enjoy the feature of OV protection, but not hook up this monitoring
circuit (I'll
>> >let the newfangled systems monitor TELL me about the OV situation). Despite
the fact that I'd dare
>> >use somebody else's product, does this make sense?
>> >
>> >Mike
>>
>> Hook up ALL the wires shown. Leave of the light bulb if you wish
>> buy it doesn't weigh much, why not use it. There is no need for
>> OV annunciation . . . if your OV protection system does its job,
>> the OV event is over in tens of milliseconds . . . long before you
>> would see a light bulb light up and do anything about it.
>>
>> Therefore, all you need is LV annunciation immediately follows
>> the shutdown of a runaway alternator. That's what the light does
>> on the LR-3 series regulators. It doesn't weigh much, you've
>> already bought the thing. It works good and lasts a long time.
>> Why not take advantage of it even if it is redundant. Some of those
>> "extra" wires are part of the regulator's bus sensing circuits.
>> You can leave off the PTT button and just test it every oil change by
>> clipping across the two terminals with a test lead . . . this
>> tells you that the ov system is still working.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>Thanks Bob....good info, leading to the following..... If I leave off the ptt,
and I leave off the
>light, then there's one line (pin 3) left out of the three I'm asking about.
You started your message
>by saying hook up all three, then gave me enough info to decide myself about two
of them. Can you tell
>me just a little more about this third line? If I read correctly, this grouping
of three lines really
>just measures the low voltage situation that occurs after the OV trips (as evidenced
by the 3 amp "LO V
>WARN" fuse at the bus). If so, and having decided to sacrifice the first two,
I'm not sure I need the
>third either? If I do still need it, can I save a fuse by paralleling it off
the alt field breaker?
>That is, what's the failure mode of this pin 3. (And yes, in this case, saving
one fuse makes a big
>difference in my design).
>
>Sorry to be dense.
>
>Mike
The third lead is bus sensing for the whole regulator.
If you've used up all your fuses to the extent that
plus or minus one fuse is a problem, you need a bigger
fuseholder. I try to design every new installation with
at least 25% spares on a bus. You don't want to chop up
a perfectly good installation by running out of protected
distribution slots at some time in the future.
If you are ALL used up and can't provide the spares. Tie
the bus sense lead to any other 5A or less feeder to
a relatively low criticality item . . . like one of the
engine instruments fuses. If you don't hook this lead up
as shown, the regulator does not run.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Vacuum Switch |
>Bob, how are things? Attached is a picture of the little vacuum switch that
>I hooked up in my plane. Out of the box, it was adjusted to trip on
>increasing vacuum of around 3.5inHg, and on decreasing vacuum it tripped at
>about 3inHg. I'll wait until I run the engine for adjustment, if necessary.
>I am going to restrict the line leading to it for isolating against a
>diaphram failure.
>
>Also, a while back I made a bunch of phone calls trying to get to the bottom
>of the Nippon Dienso internally regulated alternator question, specifically,
>what sort of failure modes does the darn thing have. I finally found
>someone, don't have his name here, but I do have it at work, who seemed to
>know something about the guts. I told him I wanted to know where the
>brushes got their juice, from within or from the control line. He insisted
>that if one disconnects the control line (or whatever it is called), the
>thing will stop producing juice in all cases. I cross examined him a bit,
>and mostly convinced myself that he knew what he was talking about. The
>best thing will be to measure the current on the line, as you had suggested.
>It sure seems like it should be easier to scrounge up info on these crazy
>things.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN (-8 F now)
I think he's all wet. Further, one should consider aftermarket
regulators that are drop-in replacements for the factory originals.
I visited the Well Electronics facility in Fon du Lac, WI a number
of years back and visited with their engineers. More often than
not, there are subtle differences between their aftermarket
products and the OEM device they're replacing.
Until you can get your hands on a schematic of the device you know
you have, be skeptical.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse Holders |
Howard:
Try: http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Dave Aronson
RV4
W4PPN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Bob you make a convincing argument for the fuse holders. Is there a web
> address where one can go to look at it and get the specs and then place an
> order?
>
> Howard Cochran
> 1/2 of RV-8 Long Build project
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Nippondenso Alternator |
.com>
><<<
> Try to find alternators with internal fans if possible.
> The B&C L-40 is a current production part purchased
> new from ND . . . don't know it's application in the
> field. I'll see if I can find out.>>>
>
>
>A quick search showed that these guys have a 38 Amp Nippondenso alternator
>available, I also know that you can order one through your local John Deere
>Dealer (Part Number RE72915). I bought the L-40 from B&C, it is made from
>the same alternator as the Deere part. I have had them side by side. The
>one thing that you get with the B&C is the special spacer and bracket so
>that you can bolt it directly to the Lycoming. As well as the external
>regulator.
Lest folks mis-understand, the external regulator doesn't come WITH
the L-40. The L-40 is MODIFIED by B&C to remove the internal
regulator and bring wiring provisions out the back for
using an external regulator.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Clay Smith <cbsmith(at)nf.sympatico.ca> |
I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any
good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not have
to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price and
features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the picture if
they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Clay Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Toggle switch |
At 03:20 PM 2/3/01 -03-30, you wrote:
>
>I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any
>good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not have
>to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price and
>features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the picture if
>they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments
>would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Clay Smith
The bat handles on switches in B&C's catalog are
bright nickel plated as are the exposed surfaces
of the bushings. I'm still looking for a decent
source of plastic booties that would enable a builder
(1) to color code the switches and (2) mix/match
bat-handle finishes without serious regard for
finished appearance of the panel. No luck yet.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | RE: Nippondenso Alternator |
.com>
>Yup, I know. I have one setting on the bench.
>
>I was ready to bolt up the Deere version of the alternator, and decided
>against it. The closer I get to flying this thing, the harder it is to go
>with product that is not coming from an established outfit.
If it's a factory original ND alternator, I'd have NO problems
with bolting it to an airplane. Compared to the 1960's certified
junk flying on most P/C/B/M airplanes, the ND is a modern
miracle.
>I have worked on the ND alternator, but more so on the 120 amp version. I
>personally have no concerns about people flying with that alternator.
>
>But-
>
>I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin stall
>was obviously caused by a tractor alternator...
Really? Surely you jest . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: | ACS Cable Tension Meter |
Does anyone know how to use the Aircraft Spruce Cable Tension meter.
Darn thing has no instructions....
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Nippondenso Alternator.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >Yup, I know. I have one setting on the bench.
> >
> >I was ready to bolt up the Deere version of the alternator, and decided
> >against it. The closer I get to flying this thing, the harder it is to go
> >with product that is not coming from an established outfit.
>
> If it's a factory original ND alternator, I'd have NO problems
> with bolting it to an airplane. Compared to the 1960's certified
> junk flying on most P/C/B/M airplanes, the ND is a modern
> miracle.
>
> >I have worked on the ND alternator, but more so on the 120 amp version. I
> >personally have no concerns about people flying with that alternator.
> >
> >But-
> >
> >I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin stall
> >was obviously caused by a tractor alternator...
>
> Really? Surely you jest . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
I wonder if he has the same concerns about his tractor
carb....
Charlie
flying Lycosaur RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Toggle switch |
From: | Don R Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me into
going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the other
way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so
to hide the holes.
Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com
**********************************************************************
On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:20:15 -0330 Clay Smith
writes:
>
>
> I've decided to go with toggle switches for my panel. Are there any
> good, reasonably priced selections out there? I would rather not
> have
> to spend $9 or $10 for the Aircraft Spruce switch. I like the price
> and
> features of Bob N.'s switches, but I can't determine from the
> picture if
> they have a chrome or stainless steel look? Any advise or comments
> would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Clay Smith
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Toggle switch |
--- Don R Jordan wrote:
>
>
> They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me
> into
> going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the
> other
> way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up
> so to hide the holes.
Good tip. Thanks.
RE: "Standard" or not - what's the difference?
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Panel
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring Change |
A few weeks ago I published a diagram that speaks to
a run-on problem exhibited by starters with permanent
magnet motors. These motors generate considerable power as
a permanent magnet generator as they spin down after the
starter button is released. This output power can cause
the pinion gear solenoid to dwell in the ENGAGED position
for up to several seconds.
The obvious solution was to drive the starter solenoid/
contactor coil directly trough the start push button or
switch . . . cars do it, why not airplanes?
You can find an article I wrote on the characteristics
of modern starter solenoids and contactors at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
In this piece I talk about why these two-stage devices
have very high current draw in the first few milliseconds
after you push the starter button. Unfortunately, this quite
normal characteristic is hard on all but the most robust
of starter switches and pushbuttons.
To mitigate this problem, B&C has recommended (and I agree)
that a separate, intermittent duty starter contactor be
used to accommodate the special operating characteristics of
modern starter engagement solenoids. Power is fed to the
solenoid by way of a short jumper between the main power
terminal for the starter and the solenoid winding terminal
(usually a push on spade).
B&C ships their starters with this jumper installed. Our
wiring diagrams show the jumper and use of an external starter
contactor for cockpit control of starter engagement.
A problem arises when a permanent magnet motor is substituted
for the wound-field motor. These motors are pretty efficient
generators during the few seconds it takes for the motor to
spin down after the engine starts. The voltage that comes
back OUT of these motors tends to keep the engagement solenoid
energized for several seconds after the pilot releases the
starter button.
B&C starters do no do this . . . they still use wound field
motors for reasons that we won't discuss here. Only permanent
magnet products have this problem.
In the published drawing at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z14.pdf
you'll see where inordinate stresses on the starter switch
have been mitigated by a small "boost" relay (our S704-1 is
suitable for this application).
I received the following e-mail concerning some questions
about drawing z14.
>Bob,
>
>In a recent posting you noted the following:
>
>"This change is to accommodate a problem unique to Sky-Tec and other
>permanent magnet motor starters. Voltage generated by the motor as
>it spins down causes a delayed disengagement of the pinion gear
>if the starter is wired like B&C and others with wound field motors.
>Adding the relay in the system as shown in Figure Z-14 takes care
>of this problem"
>
>I have two questions;
>
>1) Do you know the magnitude of the delay time in disengagement incurred in
>this situation and is there a known or probable impact on mechanical stress
>or breakage of starter, pinion, ring gear, or mounting hardware if not re-wired?
I've not personally witness the delay. I've read discussions
on the effect in numerous forums not the least of which were
home built aircraft groups . . . pilots on the Grumman Gang
wrote of delayed dis-engagements lasting 5 seconds or more.
>2) In the 10-28-00 revision of Fig Z-14 is shown a diode between ground and
>the starter-run relay terminal connected to the starter solenoid. This
>appears to me to handle the collapsing magnetic field of the solenoid coil
>upon release of the ignition key from the start position. However,
>I don't see a diode across the coil of the starter-run relay the
>to do the same to minimize arcing at ignition switch
>contacts. Is it possible that the diode shown was actually intended to be
>across the starter-run relay coil instead of as it is shown. If not, then would
it not
>be beneficial to add another diode (not shown) across the starter-run coil as
>is consistently shown for the battery contactor coil, aux battery contactor,
>and alternator contactor?
The energy stored on the S704-1 relay (or any similar) is so low
that it does not represent a threat to the starter switch.
The relay energizes with about 100 milliamperes of coil current
where the smallest inrush of even the recommended intermittant
duty contactors (like our S702-1) is on the order of 4-5 amps.
One could add a diode on that coil. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articls/s704inst.jpg
for how we do it when that relay is used as an alternator
disconnect relay for PM alternators.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter question |
>Hi Bob,
>
>I purchased your book several years ago and it has been excellent - I refer to
it often and not just for aircraft applications. I have a quick question which
I hope you will have time to answer..
>
>I own an antique (50's vintage) Spanish Bucker biplane, with a Spanish Tigre 150
motor. In a box of parts that came with the airplane is an electric starter
(no Bucker owner that I can find has anything but a crank on theirs, and there
is no electrical system in the airplane .. yet) I have the starter installed
but the problem is that it cranks very slowly on a 12V battery. Feeling lucky,
I tried throwing another 12V battery in series and it cranked nicely. Is there
a way to determine whether this starter motor really is supposed to be for
a 24V system? There is absolutely no documentation or otherwise that has led
me to be able to figure this out...
>
>Your response would be greatly appreciated - I only tested this thing for about
2 seconds and am hesitant to install the whole system now without really being
sure (and yes, both batteries were fresh)
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>----------
>Scott R. Hess
>
Scott, it's relatively safe to assume that it's a 24 volt starter.
Even if it's not rated at 24v, your experiment suggest that you'd
need 24v to use it.
I know of several 24v aircraft flying with 12v starters. Starters
with wound fields are very tolerant of "too much" battery when
cranking. Years ago, I used to jump start 6v cars from a 12v
car with no ill effects. If the increased voltage spins the engine
faster and shortens the time for successful starting then it
may be that 2x battery is LESS stressful on the starter than
interminable cranking on 1x battery voltage.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Annual Weekend Seminar in Ft. Worth |
The AeroElectric's annual seminar on aircraft electrical
systems in George and Becki's facilities near Ft. Worth has
been scheduled for the weekend of March 24/25, 2000.
A reservation form has been posted at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FtWorth.html
Since I no longer subscribe to any list servers other than
the aeroelectric-list, I would appreciate it if folks reading
this would forward this notice to other list servers
where readers would have an interest in this program.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fuse block location and conduit wireing |
I have read ALOT of 'lectric Bob's works and am now convinced that I will
probably use fuses rather than breakers for my RV9. The next question is
WHERE do RV builders put the fuse blocks so they are easily accessable?
Also, I am concerned about the heat in the wing conduit. The wings must get
hot inside, and the conduit even more so. Is this a concern? Should I
drill some "air holes" in the conduit for heat dissipation?
Kim Nicholas
RV9 Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W Livingston" <jliving(at)erinet.com> |
Subject: | Toggle switch w no anti rotation hole. |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don R
Jordan
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch
--> Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so
to hide the holes.
You don't have to drill thoughs ugly holes. I'm using .040 in thick Al with
a little temper. I simply drilled the toggle switch hole (as small as
possible) and punched a anti rotation tab in from the back. I think I used
a square cut contrete nail. Worked great. I think if you want down to be
off the tabs go on the bottom.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff & Marcia Davidson" <jdavidso(at)fcc.net> |
Subject: | Re: starter question |
While I'm no expert, I am 51 years old and have driven several cars with 6
volt systems. My 1950 Chevy Panel truck even had a starter on the floor by
the gas pedal. And I have jump started them from 12 volt batteries. They
do crank a lot faster, but mechanics later told me horror stories of the 6
volt batteries blowing up with serious personal injuries after being
connected to 12 volt sources. After that, I started taking the run-down 6
volt batteries to the gas station to get them charged up. You might want to
be careful here.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter question
>
>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>I purchased your book several years ago and it has been excellent - I
refer to it often and not just for aircraft applications. I have a quick
question which I hope you will have time to answer..
>>
>>I own an antique (50's vintage) Spanish Bucker biplane, with a Spanish
Tigre 150 motor. In a box of parts that came with the airplane is an
electric starter (no Bucker owner that I can find has anything but a crank
on theirs, and there is no electrical system in the airplane .. yet) I have
the starter installed but the problem is that it cranks very slowly on a 12V
battery. Feeling lucky, I tried throwing another 12V battery in series and
it cranked nicely. Is there a way to determine whether this starter motor
really is supposed to be for a 24V system? There is absolutely no
documentation or otherwise that has led me to be able to figure this out...
>>
>>Your response would be greatly appreciated - I only tested this thing for
about 2 seconds and am hesitant to install the whole system now without
really being sure (and yes, both batteries were fresh)
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>
>>----------
>>Scott R. Hess
>>
>
>
> Scott, it's relatively safe to assume that it's a 24 volt starter.
> Even if it's not rated at 24v, your experiment suggest that you'd
> need 24v to use it.
>
> I know of several 24v aircraft flying with 12v starters. Starters
> with wound fields are very tolerant of "too much" battery when
> cranking. Years ago, I used to jump start 6v cars from a 12v
> car with no ill effects. If the increased voltage spins the engine
> faster and shortens the time for successful starting then it
> may be that 2x battery is LESS stressful on the starter than
> interminable cranking on 1x battery voltage.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
Any problems mounting a master relay "upside down"?
(I need to do this to get the premade wires to reach.)
Wayne Williams
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: master relay |
>
>Any problems mounting a master relay "upside down"?
>(I need to do this to get the premade wires to reach.)
>
>Wayne Williams
>RV-8A
You may mount the battery contactor (master relay) in ANY
position that suits you best . . . all the ol' saws about
in-flight acceleration forces doing bad things to contactors
is bogus.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter question |
>
>While I'm no expert, I am 51 years old and have driven several cars with 6
>volt systems. My 1950 Chevy Panel truck even had a starter on the floor by
>the gas pedal. And I have jump started them from 12 volt batteries. They
>do crank a lot faster, but mechanics later told me horror stories of the 6
>volt batteries blowing up with serious personal injuries after being
>connected to 12 volt sources. After that, I started taking the run-down 6
>volt batteries to the gas station to get them charged up. You might want to
>be careful here.
Heard all those stories too . . . but his question
here is about running what MIGHT be a 12v starter
on a 24v system . . . to which the answer was, "based
on observed performance, it may well BE a 24v starter.
Even if it is rated for 12v, cranking from a 24v battery
does not pose a serious risk to the starter as long as
the engine is tuned up and starts quickly."
Battery explosions used to occur even when a battery
was being charged by NORMAL charging voltage . . . sparks
adjacent to the out-gassing battery was the trigger.
Sealed RG batteries don't outgas in a way that presents
this kind of hazard. Besides, it's easy to make the last
connection AWAY from potential hazards.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Toggle switch w no anti rotation hole. |
>
>
>--> Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up so
>to hide the holes.
>
>
>You don't have to drill thoughs ugly holes. I'm using .040 in thick Al with
>a little temper. I simply drilled the toggle switch hole (as small as
>possible) and punched a anti rotation tab in from the back. I think I used
>a square cut contrete nail. Worked great. I think if you want down to be
>off the tabs go on the bottom.
>
>John
Another technique I've used with great success is to turn
the washer around so that the anti-rotation tab doesn't point
toward the panel (you do this on the BACKSIDE of the panel)
or grind the anti-rotation tab off. Then bond the washer to
the panel with super-glue (Locktite 380 works really good for
this too . . . )
If your panel is thick enough (.062 or better) you can drill
.02 to .03 deep blind holes in the back side and grind the
anti-rotation tab down so that it doesn't bottom out in the
shallow hole.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse block location and conduit wireing |
>
>
>Also, I am concerned about the heat in the wing conduit. The wings must get
>hot inside, and the conduit even more so. Is this a concern? Should I
>drill some "air holes" in the conduit for heat dissipation?
No cooling is needed for plastic conduit used anywhere
except forward of the firewall. It gets hot inside when
sitting on the ram under summer sun but it still doesn't
put PVC conduit at risk.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Toggle switch |
>
>
>--- Don R Jordan wrote:
>>
>>
>> They are chrome & have the fast on's. I liked them. Bob talked me
>> into
>> going "standard" with the install & I wish I would have gone the
>> other
>> way. Put the drilled holes for the anti-rotation down in lieu of up
>> so to hide the holes.
>
>Good tip. Thanks.
Be careful about turning ALL the switches over. The fully
symmetrical switches will allow this but if you have a
spring loaded function to one side only (like -5 and -50
switches) they need to be mounted the RIGHT way for the
application.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring Change |
Bob,
Now I am confused.....
I have wired my plane as per figure Z-8. I have used a starter contactor on
the factory provided SkyTec starter. What do I need to do?
Figure Z-8 shows some connection (jumper?) on the solenoid of the starter.
What is this? Is this all I need to do?
From your post.....
> Power is fed to the
> solenoid by way of a short jumper between the main power
> terminal for the starter and the solenoid winding terminal
> (usually a push on spade).
>
> B&C ships their starters with this jumper installed. Our
> wiring diagrams show the jumper and use of an external starter
> contactor for cockpit control of starter engagement.
I am assuming that the S704-1 is not needed in my application.
Thanks,
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)JohnDeere.com> |
Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 02/03/01 |
<<<
> >I just have this vision of the NTSC report saying that the flat spin
stall
> >was obviously caused by a tractor alternator...
>
> Really? Surely you jest . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
I wonder if he has the same concerns about his tractor
carb....
Charlie
flying Lycosaur RV-4
>>>
Yeah, my Allis Chalmers WD (built in the 50's I think) has virtually the
same carb that Charlie is flying with. I do like the fuel injection system
on my IO-360. On the tractor I can just jump up there and tap on the side
to keep the float from sticking. Tough to do at 12,000 ft.
Regards-
Norm Muzzy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sandra Dixon & Jan de Jong <SJ(at)however.demon.nl> |
Subject: | All Electric - preliminary questions |
The most likely means of propulsion for my Europa XS will be the Rotax 914 with
an
electrically driven CS prop. The supplied PM alternator delivers 19 A (15 A at
13 V).
Battery location is probably some 5 feet behind the firewall. There are two electrical
fuel pumps (no mechanical pump). Pitch trim is electrically driven. Turn coordinator
and
wing leveler are electrically driven. Even disregarding the rest of the panel (where
I
live only day-VFR is allowed for homebuilts anyway) a very reliable electrical
system is
obviously needed. There seems to be no point in entertaining any notion of a vacuum
system.
I am contemplating diagram Z8 of the Connection with an open mind, realising that
all
architectures are compromises, and have a few questions.
1. Parallel alternators.
Can the auxiliary PM alternator be online while the main one is? If so, how about
assuring
that the right one of the two OV protections operates and not the other? Assuming
that PM
voltage regulators use an internal voltage reference and not the battery, maybe
the fact
that the guilty voltage regulator supplies all the current can be used?
Is there a (somewhat likely) voltage regulator + OV module failure mode where it
draws
excessive current instead of going offline?
2. Parallel batteries.
Is it useful to have two batteries in parallel without selection? Or - is a battery
failure mode where it draws excessive current very unlikely? And: is the other
failure
mode where the battery removes itself from the circuit not necessarily always a
slow aging
process?
3. Battery isolation.
Z8 compromises a bit on emergency battery isolation because the battery contactor
must be
bypassed. I wonder whether there exists a heavy duty switch that is very good at
being
always closed (a wire equivalent: low resistance, no corrosion) and can be reliably
opened
once in a lifetime - mechanically operated from a red handle. May not be worth
the weight
and effort unless it can safely take over battery isolation duties from the battery
contactor too..
Jan de Jong
Europa #461
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
Subject: | Re:Flap motor current |
Hi There,
does anyone know how much current the Vansaircraft
electric flap motor uses? I'm told its Toyota rear window
motor/ gear box thingy. I'm trying to find a switch to install
in the coloum and not use a current amplifier.
Thanks
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James K. Glindemann" <jglind(at)netspace.net.au> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>>Regards
>>
>>James K Glindemann
>
> ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with
> slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage
> and full output. However, the field must be limited
> to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It
> just so happens that I designed such a critter for
> B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at
> 316.283.8000
>
> Bob . .
can you elaborate on the need to limit field voltage ? is this to limit
output current to less than would be applicable for the same unit @ 12v. If
this is so do you know by what amount the the current rating must de-rated.
Thank you
James K Glindemann.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "SCOTT COMPTON" <scompton(at)Prodigy.net> |
Subject: | aeroelectric list |
please start sending this list dailey. thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator; Voltage Decrease |
>Bob:
>
>My alternator voltage has dropped to 11.8 volts for some unknown reason. I have
the voltage regulator I bought from you B&C LR3B/14. Voltage had been 13.8
volt when systems were new. I have 40 amp alternator, 12 volt, 25 amp Concord
battery 1 year old. Normal system loading is 20-30 amps with boost pump, landing
lights radios and strobes. I turned strobes, landing lights off reducing
load to 5-10 amps and voltage remains at 11.8-12.0 volts. What gives? Should
I adjust the voltage regulator to attempt to raise the voltage or is this
a symptom of something about to fail?
>
>Regards,
>Bob Hargrave
Not ABOUT to fail, but HAS FAILED. Does the low voltage
warning light flash? Have you conducted the trouble shooting
procedure outlined in the notes of Appendix Z?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>James K Glindemann
>>
>> ND alternators will run happily at 28v but with
>> slightly increased minimum speeds for voltage
>> and full output. However, the field must be limited
>> to 15 volts. This takes a special regulator. It
>> just so happens that I designed such a critter for
>> B&C some years ago. You can give them a call at
>> 316.283.8000
>>
>> Bob . .
>
>can you elaborate on the need to limit field voltage ? is this to limit
>output current to less than would be applicable for the same unit @ 12v. If
>this is so do you know by what amount the the current rating must de-rated.
>
>Thank you
>
>James K Glindemann.
Not output current rather max current/voltage to the field.
A 14v 60A alternator will produce 28v at 60A, you just need to
spin it a tad faster (no problem on belt driven Lycoming
installations, the stock pulleys are okay) AND limit field
voltage to 15 volts . . . this takes a SPECIAL regulator
available from B&C.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/01/01 |
Bob,
I'm finishing the airframe on my Long EZ. I built in two channels about 2" high
and 5/8" deep in each side wall of the fuse. These I lined with aluminum foil
before closing. They run from behind the instrument panel to the firewall. I
have the battery cables (battery up front) installed in one side. (could be
removed).
I'd like your opinion on where I should run the rest of the wiring to avoid as
much interference as possible.
I'm installing the Vision 1000 monitor, strobes/nav, com. antenna in each
winglet (only need 1) and then the usual solenoids for starter, master,
alternator wires, etc. I'm using one mag and one LSE.
Your thoughts please.
Terry Lamp
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | engine monitoring system |
I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
oil pressure light.
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
Subject: | engine monitoring system |
Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to
accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually measures
the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the
engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge.
If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need an
amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the
processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the
gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems this
is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For
this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a
micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree
resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is
analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the micro
to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F.
If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then
you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Larkin [mailto:aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:43 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system
>
>
>
>
> I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
> engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
> gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
> CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
> Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
> thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
> pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
> oil pressure light.
>
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
My ammeter shunt is connected directly to the starter relay, which
places it at 12 volts. How does one protect it against being
accidentally shorted to ground? It is a big lump of metal connected
essentially directly to the battery. Even if the 4 terminals could be
covered there is still the body of it.
Is it possible to use a huge piece of shrink tube over the whole thing?
Does shrink tube come that big?
How about fabricating a cover over the whole thing?
I don't want to connect it in the battery ground lead because then the
ammeter has to have capacity to read the full starter current, which
makes it inaccurate at the normal much lower currents. I hope somebody
has already solved this. TIA Jim Bean
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: engine monitoring system |
Read this for thermocouples: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
contains full tables for type K EGT probes.
I used the chips, but a simple temp sensor where the wires connect to the AD (or
mux) would do just as well (if you want to spend an AD channel on that).
I used old technology to build my engine monitor: 80C35 CPU, AD817 16 channel
mux/8bit A/D and a 4 lines x 20 chars mono LED backlit LCD, displaying all
engine parameters, fuel flow, RPM, etc. at the same time. Problem with using
existing aircraft sensors, is to obtain their calibration curves, so I went with
linear precompensated sensors (Motorola MPX5--- series pressure sensors and
AD22100 and TMP35/36/37 temp sensors).
Running a 2-rotor Mazda 13-B engine I'm displaying the following:
Oil press, Water press, fuel press (2), oil temps (2), water temp, voltage, EGT
(2), RPM, mixture (from oxygen sensor), fuel flow, fuel used, left tank, right
tank and MAP.
Finn
Andrew Larkin wrote:
>
> I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
> engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
> gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
> CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
> Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
> thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
> pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
> oil pressure light.
>
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/09/01 |
Andy,
Autometer make a device called "Trialert". It is a black box that allows you
to
hook up 3 gauges to it and it has an output for an alarm signal. Check it out on
their web site. www.autometer.com It costs about $ 70.00 from racing parts
distributors. I have installed one in my Murphy Rebel along with their gauges.
Good luck.
Rick D.
AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 02/09/01: 3
>
> From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system
>
>
> I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
> engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
> gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
> CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
> Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
> thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
> pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
> oil pressure light.
>
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Izard <bill(at)izard.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - |
02/09/01
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your
company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information
Regards
Bill Izard
New Zealand
>
>Andy,
> Autometer make a device called "Trialert". It is a black box that
> allows you to
>hook up 3 gauges to it and it has an output for an alarm signal. Check it
>out on
>their web site. www.autometer.com It costs about $ 70.00 from racing parts
>distributors. I have installed one in my Murphy Rebel along with their gauges.
>Good luck.
>Rick D.
>
>AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > *
> > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Fri 02/09/01: 3
> >
> > From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system
> >
>
> >
> > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
> > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
> > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
> > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
> > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
> > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
> > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
> > oil pressure light.
> >
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
-------------------------
Izard Industries Ltd
P.O.Box 477
Masterton
New Zealand
The Izard Family
http://mysite.xtra.co.nz/~izard/page1.html
Phone 64 6 3788862
Fax 64 6 3788649
Mobile 025 463 254
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Izard <bill(at)izard.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: engine monitoring system |
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your
company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information
Regards
Bill Izard
New Zealand
>
>Read this for thermocouples: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
>contains full tables for type K EGT probes.
>
>I used the chips, but a simple temp sensor where the wires connect to the
>AD (or
>mux) would do just as well (if you want to spend an AD channel on that).
>
>I used old technology to build my engine monitor: 80C35 CPU, AD817 16 channel
>mux/8bit A/D and a 4 lines x 20 chars mono LED backlit LCD, displaying all
>engine parameters, fuel flow, RPM, etc. at the same time. Problem with using
>existing aircraft sensors, is to obtain their calibration curves, so I
>went with
>linear precompensated sensors (Motorola MPX5--- series pressure sensors and
>AD22100 and TMP35/36/37 temp sensors).
>
>Running a 2-rotor Mazda 13-B engine I'm displaying the following:
>Oil press, Water press, fuel press (2), oil temps (2), water temp,
>voltage, EGT
>(2), RPM, mixture (from oxygen sensor), fuel flow, fuel used, left tank, right
>tank and MAP.
>
>Finn
>
>Andrew Larkin wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'd like to try building my own microprocessor-based
> > engine monitoring system. I already have conventional
> > gauges. Can one just connect an A/D converter to the
> > CHT and EGT leads where they connect to the gauges?
> > Will this throw off the readings in the gauges? Also
> > thinking about using an op amp connected to the oil
> > pressure sender as a simple comparator to drive a low
> > oil pressure light.
> >
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>Shop online without a credit card
>http://www.rocketcash.com
>RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
>
>
-------------------------
Izard Industries Ltd
P.O.Box 477
Masterton
New Zealand
The Izard Family
http://mysite.xtra.co.nz/~izard/page1.html
Phone 64 6 3788862
Fax 64 6 3788649
Mobile 025 463 254
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wiring Diagram Z-8 (Aeorelectric Connection 4/00 Edition) |
Bob,
I have three questions:
1) Why are'nt you using a fusible link (18AWG) or other form of
protection between the battery contactor and the battery bus on Fig. Z-8
? (p Z-16 of 4/00 edition)
2) What is the purpose of the fusible link (20AWG) betwen the essential
bus and the battery bus? (does'nt the 7A fuse on the Batt. bus
provide the needed protection?
3) Where does the IN4005 diode on the PM Alternator control relay (shown
in a photo on your web site) attach on the Z-8 diagram?
Thanks in advance for clarifying these points for me.
Ulrich La Fosse
CH801
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | engine monitoring system |
>
>Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to
>accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually measures
>the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the
>engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge.
>
>If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need an
>amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the
>processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the
>gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems this
>is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For
>this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a
>micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree
>resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is
>analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the micro
>to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F.
>
>If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then
>you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose.
My favorite thermocouple conditioner is the Analog Devices
AD596. You can download the data sheet at:
http://products.analog.com/products/info.asp?product=AD596
This device contains cold-junction compensation, thermocouple
linearization and gain such that the chip's output is 10mv
per degree C. The AD596 is for type J thermocouple wire, the
AD597 is optimized for type K wire.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: fusible links and ovm |
>Thanks for the help. The 12awg wire is from the rectifier/regulator
>associated with the alternator on my Rotax 618. The contactor is on the
>rear of the firewall and I guess that means I should be using an in-line
>fuse based on your comments.
>Thanks very much for the testing procedure for the OVM
>Regards
>Bill
Okay, you can use a fusible link here. For the limited
output of the 618's alternator, a piece of 18AWG wire
inside the silicone-over-fiberglas sleeving would do the
trick nicely. I'd drop the feeder down to 14AWG so that
it will go into a blue butt splice which is more compatible
with your 18AWG fusible link.
Bob .. .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Ammeter Shunt |
>
>My ammeter shunt is connected directly to the starter relay, which
>places it at 12 volts. How does one protect it against being
>accidentally shorted to ground? It is a big lump of metal connected
>essentially directly to the battery. Even if the 4 terminals could be
>covered there is still the body of it.
Ammeter shunts have been around almost since the first
generators and batteries were stuck on airplanes. It's the
very BEST way to get an accurate measurement of a large
current REMOTE from the display instrument. And yes, they
generally ride at 14 or 28v above airframe ground.
>Is it possible to use a huge piece of shrink tube over the whole thing?
>Does shrink tube come that big? How about fabricating a cover over
>the whole thing?
You can do this but I wouldn't worry about it. I've had
builders worry about long exposed bus bars across the back
of their instrument panels. I suggest they pick up whatever
hammers and saws they might need to physically cause some
hazardous object to come into contact with the exposed
conductor and craw under the instrument panel for a looksee.
The goal is to design hazardous conditions out of the installation,
then you don't have to worry about protecting against them.
>I don't want to connect it in the battery ground lead because then the
>ammeter has to have capacity to read the full starter current, which
>makes it inaccurate at the normal much lower currents. I hope somebody
>has already solved this.
Sure have . . . in hundreds of thousands of certified
airplanes that have a lot of similarly exposed, heavy current
conductors. 99.9% of problems with wiring come from
worn out materials and/or poor workmanship aided and
abetted by equally poor maintenance. It's very
easy to design out potential failures associated with
an exposed ammeter shunt or any other difficult to
enclose conductors.
BTW, don't forget to fuse the itty bitty wires leading
away from the shunt . . . Either 5A fuses or 24AWG fusible links
driving 20AWG leadwires . . . the later would be my personal
choice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: engine monitoring system |
Please remove me from your Mailing List. I`m get 40- 50 emails from your
company each day ,all I want is Tailwind information
Regards
Bill Izard
New Zealand
Bill,
You need to unsubscribe yourself by logging onto the
signon/signoff page at:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
However, may I suggest that if your Tailwind is going to have
and electrical system, much of what's published on the
AeroElectric-List is germane to your airplane. Further,
should you have a question about and electrical/avionics
problem, there's a very high probability that you can get
the answer right here.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net> |
I currently have an EI EGT/OAT/CHT gauge and a selector switch to pick the
cylinder to display. I had thoughts of using four Radio Shack multimeters
in place of the EI gauge to eliminate the cylinder selector switch and have
a toggle switch that would pick EGT or CHT's. They make some multimeters
which are the size of the LED display chip and have an input for a
temperature probe(typically room temps I would guess). When I attempt to
measure the voltage generated by the probes I realize that the sensitivity
of the standard Fluke meter isn't small enough. Is my idea reasonable? I
wouldn't necessarily need to display numbers that are exact temps, just have
an idea of what range is normal (like analog EGT gauges).
Kevin Lane N3773 RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: engine monitoring system
>
> >
> >Well, to get accurate readings from any thermocouple, somehow you have to
> >accomplish "cold junction compensation". A thermocouple actually
measures
> >the difference in temperature between the "hot junction" attached to the
> >engine and the "cold junction" where it's connected to the gauge.
> >
> >If you simply connect to the A/D converter (it's millivolts, so you need
an
> >amplifier), you can do cold junction compensation mathematically in the
> >processor if you know the ambient temperature i.e. the temperature of the
> >gauge. In most microprocessor-based thermocouple measurement systems
this
> >is done with either a thermistor or a temperature-measurement chip. For
> >this, I would recommend either an LM75, which is easy to interface to a
> >micro, and gives the temperature digitally in degrees C with .5 degree
> >resolution and a degree or so accuracy. Or you can use an LM20, which is
> >analog and can be connected to an A/D port, but takes some math in the
micro
> >to linearize and convert the A/D counts into degrees either C or F.
> >
> >If you don't want to learn how to do the cold junction compensation, then
> >you can buy analog chips made for exactly that purpose.
>
> My favorite thermocouple conditioner is the Analog Devices
> AD596. You can download the data sheet at:
>
> http://products.analog.com/products/info.asp?product=AD596
>
> This device contains cold-junction compensation, thermocouple
> linearization and gain such that the chip's output is 10mv
> per degree C. The AD596 is for type J thermocouple wire, the
> AD597 is optimized for type K wire.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>) |
2/9/2001
Fellow Pilots and Builders:
EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of
Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for
some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards.
The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required
after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay
was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold
environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line
are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we
deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing.
When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who
has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your
credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.)
If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via
e-mail, and mail your check or CC number.
At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on
when I receive your payment.
To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year,
thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a
product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price.
Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information.
www.riteangle.com
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
P NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address |
--- ulf3(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address?
>
> I have tried several times to reach them by phone and left messages
> but have had no reply. Thanks
ORNDORFFG(at)AOL.COM
They're busy folks. Keep trying.
- Mike
=====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
EX-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address |
orndorffg(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | niagara alternator question |
Thread-Topic: niagara alternator question
Thread-Index: AcCV4iiyQ6CTBKuqSnK6Mnbze4PFvA==
From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I have installed the Niagara alternator and have noticed that in cruise
my voltages vary quite a bit. It will jump around between 14.1 and 14.7
volts, and it seems a bit erratic. Is this a problem that can be
corrected with an internally regulated alternator?
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address |
In a message dated 2/12/01 6:29:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ulf3(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address? >>
I think OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM is still good.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked,
fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to
turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull
starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't
been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working.
Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud
bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that
the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I
realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the
likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on
the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from
turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I
found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground
down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the
starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad.
Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft,
where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts
required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some
ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the
engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly
cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it
started up.
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
John,
You really should pull the engine apart and clean it all out. Instead of
buying a complete gasket set, you can buy the handfull of gaskets and seals
that you will need at much less cost. Since you bought the engine at
Wentworth, they may be willing to spring for the cost of the gaskets.
Metal in the oil will just circulate to the bearings where it will imbed
and the metal will act like a lathe tool cutting bit on your crank and wear
it right out!!!
Since you bought the engine at Wentworth, does this mean you live near the
Twin Cities?
Chris Bobka
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
Christian Bobka wrote:
>
> John,
>
> You really should pull the engine apart and clean it all out. Instead of
> buying a complete gasket set, you can buy the handfull of gaskets and seals
> that you will need at much less cost. Since you bought the engine at
> Wentworth, they may be willing to spring for the cost of the gaskets.
> Metal in the oil will just circulate to the bearings where it will imbed
> and the metal will act like a lathe tool cutting bit on your crank and wear
> it right out!!!
>
> Since you bought the engine at Wentworth, does this mean you live near the
> Twin Cities?
>
> Chris Bobka
> EAA Tech Counselor
>
Hey Chris,
Thanks for your reply.....Thus far I have only talked to my mechanic, and I have
gotten 7 responses from other listers. All the suggestions are very similar to
yours. Some suggested at least clean the metal into the sump. My mechanic
suggested the same thing. The motor never actually got to run. At this point
I
don't think the particles went any further than the case. I think that removing
all the accessories and rinsing the gear case out should get it all. Then I will
see what my mechanic thinks.
If there is any evidence of the particles having gone further, I will just bite
the
bullet and tear it all down and overhaul it. I figure if I'm going to go to the
trouble of taking it off the mount and disassemble part of it, then it would be
foolish to put it back together as is.
Again Thank you for your suggestion, it sounds like a good assessment.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | old ogre <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
sorry about you mis-fourtune....the ONLY WAY you will get the metal completely
out of that
engine is to tear it down...remember, just a tinnnnnny little bit of loose steel
will
really mess up an engine...FAST!...and it could ruin your whole day if you happen
to be
flying it over water or trees, or whatever when it decides to let go...and it eventually
will if you don't dis-semble it and clean it properly...some people have tried
to clean an
engine out with solvent and by turning the engine over with the starter...all that
does is
distrubute the metal all over the engine...sorry I can't come up with a better
fix....don't ask me how I know...
John Tarabocchia wrote:
>
> Today was the day I would start my used 0-200. Everything was checked,
> fuel, electrical, oil added. Well I sat in the cockpit and started to
> turn on the appropriate switches. I then pulled the handle for the pull
> starter. It turned several times and didn't fire up. Well it hasn't
> been running in over a year. I figured it would take a little working.
> Then I tried it again, while the starter was engaged , there was a loud
> bang and the prop stopped cold. I got out to investigate and found that
> the prop would not move. I got real nervous at this point. Once I
> realized that something was wrong internally I started to look for the
> likely suspect. I pulled the alternator off and found the the gear on
> the alternator broke off completely. This stopped the motor from
> turning. Then I looked to see if there was any more damage. Well I
> found, when I took the starter off, that the engaging gear was ground
> down very bad. I inspected the engine case gears and found that the
> starter gear had only a bit of grazing and really didn't look to bad.
>
> Now I'm left with a ton of questions. I called Wentworth Aircraft,
> where I purchased the engine, and they said they would replace any parts
> required. Which I found to be fair at this time. I also have some
> ground up metal from the ground starter gear on internal parts of the
> engine (gears, case and mag gears, ect.). How do I get these properly
> cleaned up. Or do I let the oil carry it away when I finally do get it
> started up.
>
> Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
>
> --
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Seeking Orndorf's email address |
>
>In a message dated 2/12/01 6:29:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ulf3(at)juno.com
>writes:
>
><< Does any one know George and Becki Orndorf's email address? >>
>
>I think OrndorffG(at)AOL.COM is still good.
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, finish kit stuff
That's the address I have for him . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: niagara alternator question |
>
>I have installed the Niagara alternator and have noticed that in cruise
>my voltages vary quite a bit. It will jump around between 14.1 and 14.7
>volts, and it seems a bit erratic. Is this a problem that can be
>corrected with an internally regulated alternator?
>
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
What regulator are you using with the alternator? There are
regulators and then there are REGULATORS. Further, there are
installation problems that can confuse even the best of regulators
and cause the kind of instability you describe. What is the
timing of the "jump"? Does it look like it steps from one
voltage to the next or does it wander around?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Message sent to AeroElectric-List Digest. |
>Bob,
>
>I'm finishing the airframe on my Long EZ. I built in two channels about 2" high
>and 5/8" deep in each side wall of the fuse. These I lined with aluminum foil
>before closing. They run from behind the instrument panel to the firewall. I
>have the battery cables (battery up front) installed in one side. (could be
>removed).
>I'd like your opinion on where I should run the rest of the wiring to avoid as
>much interference as possible.
>I'm installing the Vision 1000 monitor, strobes/nav, com. antenna in each
>winglet (only need 1) and then the usual solenoids for starter, master,
>alternator wires, etc. I'm using one mag and one LSE.
>
>Your thoughts please.
>
>Terry Lamp
>Ohio
None of those extra-ordinary shielding and/or locating techinques
are necessary. They only add weight and labor to your project.
If there are shielded wires shown on the wiring diagram for a particular
product, then by all means use them. Otherwise, wires may be bundled
together with little cause for concern.
If you have a problem, it's more likely to be a ground loop problem
than anything due to lack of "shielding" or proximity of wires.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DThomas773(at)aol.com |
A few years back a low time engine ingested the drive gear from a poorly
adapted alternator. We tried cleaning by repeatedly flushing it out with
solvent. We started the engine and flew for about 40 minutes, began losing
oil pressure and generating heat. It cost me a major O/H.
Dennis Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | niagara alternator question |
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: niagara alternator question
Thread-Index: AcCWlNDMn0dQgvp2QeagJQwshWOB7QAACNcg
From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
It's an internally regulated Nippondenso. People have suggested that I
check the grounding of the alternator which I suspect could be the
culprit...but the fluctuations are random, so it is just wandering.
Bob
> What regulator are you using with the alternator? There are
> regulators and then there are REGULATORS. Further, there are
> installation problems that can confuse even the best of regulators
> and cause the kind of instability you describe. What is the
> timing of the "jump"? Does it look like it steps from one
> voltage to the next or does it wander around?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Diodes IFR with all-electric panel |
>Dear Mr. Nuckolls:
>
> I am trying to finalize electrical designs for a Lancair Super ES, and am
planning to more or less adopt your design for an all-electric airplane, using
the BD8 alternator. I do have some questions, however, one trivial, and the
other more complex.
>
> The trivial question involves your use of diodes between busses. The silicon
diodes will have about a 0.7V drop across them, so if you're pushing, say,
20 amps across it, you'll dissipate about 15 W in the diode. This seems like
a pretty significant power penalty. Isn't there a better way to do this? (I
can't think of one, but you're the expert . . . !)
>
You may have too much load on the essential bus. You should be
able to get the continuous e-bus loading to less than 4 amps.
You need to be able to fly out a full load of fuel on one
fully charged battery. If your normal ops (alternator working)
loads are greater, then the power lost in the diode is trivial.
When the alternator is off line, the diode isn't in the circuit
so the losses go to zero. Just be sure that with a failed engine
driven power source, you can keep truly essential goodies running
for duration of fuel with the battery you've chosen to carry along
with you.
> The more complex question involves IFR flight with an all-electric panel.
If I have an electric horizon, and an all-electric DG-type display from an electronic
compass system (the new RDG display in the TruTrak autopilot system),
is this sufficient to satisfy the regs (minimum equip. for IFR)? There will
be a whiskey compass somewhere around, and the usual pitot-static instruments
(airspeed, VSI, altimeter). Seems to me that there is good redundancy in the
electrical system itself, and when I flew IFR with vacuum gyro's, I didn't have
backups for those, so the all-electric system would seem to be just as good,
if not better, given the lousy record of vacuum systems.
>
I think the regs speak to "gyroscopic" instruments which would
probably rule out the RDG display . . . however, you and I know
that it's entirely adequate. I'd go ahead with it and just
don't make a big deal of it. If somebody asks you can say
"yeah, got this whippy electronic heading indicator that
a whole lot more accurate and reliable than a vacuum instrument."
and see where they take it from there. Odds are that if you
don't make a point of mentioning it, nobody else will either.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagram Z-8 (Aeorelectric |
Connection 4/00 Edition)
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have three questions:
>
>1) Why are'nt you using a fusible link (18AWG) or other form of
>protection between the battery contactor and the battery bus on Fig. Z-8
>? (p Z-16 of 4/00 edition)
The battery bus is located right AT THE BATTERY. Short
feeders (6" or less) don't require separate protection
because (1) like a fusible link, they don't represent
a large smoke/fire hazard and (2) being short and
relatively open to inspection, they don't have
a high probability of fault.
>2) What is the purpose of the fusible link (20AWG) betwen the essential
>bus and the battery bus? (does'nt the 7A fuse on the Batt. bus
>provide the needed protection?
You need to protect a wire from ALL sources of overload.
That wire has a potential source from BOTH ends. I used
a fusible link at the e-bus end to avoid using up fuse
slot on the fuse block . . . obviously, you could do
that in lieu of the link, a link would be okay at the
battery end as well. If you've got the spare fuse slots,
use them instead. If you're running short, use links.
>3) Where does the IN4005 diode on the PM Alternator control relay (shown
>in a photo on your web site) attach on the Z-8 diagram?
The anode (non banded end of the diode) goes to the
same terminal on the relay as the black (-) lead from
the OVM. The cathode (banded end) goes to the
same relay terminal as the red/yel (+) lead of
the OVM.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Rush <Gary.Rush(at)west.sun.com> |
Subject: | Unfinished RV-8 for sale |
I have a partially completed RV-8 for sale.
Wings are completed (includes the strobes)
Empennage is completed
Fuselage - drilled, primed and ready to be riveted
I have not ordered the finish kit.
For sale for $9,950 firm.
After having attempted to get my tail dragger sign off, I have realized that I
am a much better nose dragger pilot and I do not want to tempt fate.
I can be contacted at gary.rush(at)west.sun.com.
I am located in Carlsbad, CA.
Thanks,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Conversion |
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a NiponDenso 40amp alternator that I would like to convert for use on
>my Cozy. I have a B&C regulator and would like to know how to modify the
>Nippon alternator to bypass the built in regulator. I have the regulator
>out of the alternator and it has three terminals in addition to two mounting
>holes (one of which appears to ground the regulator) and a socket for
>external connection with a couple of spade terminals arranged in a T. The
>two terminals on either side of the socket connect to the brush carrier when
>the regulator is installed. Measuring the resistance between terminals it
>would appear that neither of the terminals that connect to the brush carrier
>are directly connected to either of the spade terminals. Are any of the
>others so that I could connect a wire from one side of the brush carrier to
>it? Can I connect a short wire from the other side of the brush carrier to
>one of the mounting holes thereby grounding it to the case? It seems I need
>the regulator in place to support one side of the brush carrier so I cant
>just remove it and connect the brushes to ground and external terminal.
The modification calls for opening the regulator and gutting
it. Jumper wires are added internally to bring the free terminal
of the brush-holder out to ALL 3 of the fast-on spades.
The brush holder needs to be modified to disconnect the other
brush from the alternator's b-lead terminal and ground it instead.
B&C machines some of the parts to allow installation of a
threaded stand off and longer screw to accomplish this task.
I don't have any other data on exactly how this is done as
it was not one of my tasks for B&C.
>I would very much appreciate your help, and you have my permission to post
>this message and your reply on the Cozy newsletter if you feel it
>appropriate and it would be helpful to others.
No problem. This might be a good time to remind Cozy-list
readers that I've had to scale back on the number of list-servers
I service . . . the aeroelectric-list at Matronics.com is the only
one I monitor now. The list is growing and I think it will become
an excellent venue for electrical systems discussions as they
tend to be generic to all aircraft.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: switch question |
>I have your aeroelectric connection book that suggests that I use an
>off-start/on switch for the right mag and a off/on/start for the left
>mag. I have wired my RV-6 IAW your figure Z-1. Note 2 states that the
>switches should be a Microswitch p/n 2TL1-5.
Those switches are now available from B&C as the S700-2-5
toggle switch . . . MUCH less expensive than Microswitch
parts. See the website catalog at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
>I have been searching for a 2TL1-5 Microswith for over 3 years. I have
>checked the B&C website catalog, and none of their switches seem to be
>the right kind. Any idea where I can buy one of these switches?
If you want Microswitch parts, they can be ordered from
their various distributors like Newark, Allied Electronics,
etc. who all have website catalogs and order systems.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Crimping solderless connectors |
>Bob : I just read your "Anatomy of a good solderless terminal connection".
>My question is- when using the ratcheting type crimpers sold by B+C do you
>need to crimp the connector twice as explained towards the end of that
>article or is that only suggested when using the "low cost alternative"
>crimpers? Thanks John Field
The tool now sold by B&C is a one-shot-does-it-all
crimper. The double crimp is needed only with the
hardware/automotive store tools.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I need a firewall ground kit for the GlaStar I am building. A 24 tab on
>> each side of the firewall should be enough. What is the price of the kit
>> with two 24 tab blocks?
>>
B&C offers any combo of ground blocks you want. I suspect
that your airplane would be fine with a single 24 on the
cockpit side would suffice. If you find that you NEED to
add a bunch of grounds on the engine side, you can always
add the ground block . . . it just bolts on. Start with a
single 24 and see how it goes.
>> Will the BCT-1 tool crimp the very small pins that are found on the Apollo
>> SL-30 navcom and the Garmin 340 audio panel? Will it work for the center
>> pins on BNC connectors? Will the DSE-1 extraction tool work on the these
>> small pins?
the BCT-1 is for sheet metal pins only like the standard
D-subs, Molex, Mate-n-Locks, etc as illustrated on my
website. The radios you mention probably come with the
machined pins which require the RCT-3 crimper . . . that
tool will install both the standard and high density
machined d-sub pins. The DSE-1 is for standard density
pins only. It takes a smaller tool for the high-density.
I'm trying to source the smaller tool and get it added to
B&C's catalog.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Distribution Scheme |
>Dear Mr. Nuckolls:
>
>You were kind enough to speak with my partner, Don Herzstein this
>morning about the power distribution system we are planning for our Cozy
>Mk IV with an IO 360 engine. I have attached my circuit diagram for the
>system for any comments you would be kind enough to make.
>
>Several comments;
>
>1. We have two of Klaus' electronic ignitions and really do want the
>redundancy.
No problem . .. just tie a second battery on the system with
it's own battery master switch and contactor . . .
>2. Were planning to use two 12 AH SLA batteries (in parallel for
>starting) but they didn't have the cranking power and we are replacing
>them with unit(s) which have better starting output.
A pair of 17's is your best bet. Check out these two
sites.
Powersonic: PS-12180
http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html
Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
This same battery is made by lots of other folks as well.
>3. We will probably use two of the same battery for parallel
>applicaions although with the isolation it is probably not necessary.
No "isolation" beyond the opening of the aux battery contactor
during alternator out operations is necessary or advisable.
>4. Will monitor each battery (either on bus or isolated) with a
>battery condition meter but will have to manually put a battery on the
>bus to charge. (You convinced me I don't want one of your high powered
>Beachcraft isolation diodes at $47,000 per unit).
No "monitoring" necessary. If your bus voltage is 14.2 to 14.6 volts
then the batteries are happy. If bus voltage drops below 13.0 then the
batteries are at-risk for discharge. Go to plan-B for alternator
out operations. New battery in main, move main to aux and pitch
the aux battery every year to insure freshness and critical
capacity. This is a SIMPLE concept that offers reliablity
unheard of in the spam cans . . . No extra pilot or mechanic's
duties.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob, I'm in the throes of deciding what alternator to order and I'm leaning
>toward using a ND with internal regulator. If I go this route, I will use
>your wiring instructions in your "OV PROTECTION FOR BUILT-IN REGUALTORS" PG
>1.
>
>Looking at the above schematic, I noticed there are several symbols with
>which I'm not familiar - W1, S1, K1 etc. Whatt'ya mean by these?
Those are reference designators that allow you to tie a schematic
component to a bill of materials. For example:
K1 S701-1 Contactor, 12V, Continuous Duty (Battery Master)
S1 S700-1-3 Switch, Toggle, SPDT (Landing Lights)
etc. etc.
>Also, on the same schematic, the master/alternator switch wiring indicates
>that when the switch is on, terminals 2 & 3 and 5 & 6 are connected. If
>this is a standard 2-3 toggle switch, wouldn't this put the toggle bat in
>the down or "off" position?
I need to comb though the examples and illustrations to
make sure the terminal numbering is valid. The numbers originally
referred to the Microswitch convention and I'm not sure that
every example in the book is covered when the lower cost switches
from B&C are used. I'm planning a major overhaul of Appendix Z
on revision 10 to try and comb out all of the ambiguities. The
worst case is that the upper and lower wires on the back of a
switch may have to swap positions . . . pretty easy to diagnose
and implement.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com> |
Bob,
I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that
will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator
performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V".
My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the
math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM.
What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way,
at idle, how much does the amperage vary?
Doug
--
Doug
INFOequipt,Inc.
dougc(at)infoequipt.com
http://www.infoequipt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Douglas Corarito <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com> |
Bob,
I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that
will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator
performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V".
My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the
math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM.
What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way,
at idle, how much does the amperage vary?
Doug
--
Doug
INFOequipt,Inc.
dougc(at)infoequipt.com
http://www.infoequipt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David W. Thomas" <dthomas(at)compumise.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power Budgeting |
According to the Installation Manual that came with my 912 UL (page 25) you
can only expect the alternator to put out 100 W at 2000 RPM and maintain 12
+ volts. Any more and the voltage gets below battery voltage (i.e at 2000
RPM with a 150 W load you will only get 10.2 volts.) At 4000 RPM you can
draw 227 W and still have 12.8 volts.
Dave Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Corarito" <dougc(at)INFOequipt.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power Budgeting
>
> Bob,
>
> I'm trying to figure a power budget for an aircraft I'm building that
> will use a Rotax 912. The spec sheet I have says the generator
> performance is "250 W DC" at "5500 RPM" and voltage "13.5 V".
>
> My question is how does the amperage vary with RPM? If I do the
> math, with those numbers I get 18.5 amps at max RPM.
>
> What amperage is realistically available - or to put it another way,
> at idle, how much does the amperage vary?
>
> Doug
>
> --
>
>
> Doug
>
>
> INFOequipt,Inc.
> dougc(at)infoequipt.com
> http://www.infoequipt.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | conduit in a Glastar? |
>I'm finally getting to plan my electrical system and would like to
>replace two 10'+ lengths of #2 wire in my GlaStar with a single length
>inside a conduit as you recommend for LongEZ builders.
There's only a minimal benefit for doing this
in a composite airplane and no benefits in an
airplane with metalic structure. The rational
on composite canard pushers is that since you
can make good use of a conduit for physically
running wires the length of the airplane, you
might as well make it do double duty by being
a return path (ground conductor) as well.
>Is there a specific copper conduit that you can recommend?
>
>I find the 1/2" Cu plumbing pipe to have more cross sectional area than
>needed and it's every bit as heavy as the #2 and too stiff.
For your airplane, I'd stay with the pair of 2AWG
wires routed together. I presume these go to the
battery behind the seat. Run the (-) lead to a
firewall ground stud and the (+) lead to the
starter contactor on the forward side of the
firewall
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker |
First let me commend you on your book, The AeroElectric Connection.
Its combination of explanation of electrical system theory and practical
knowledge make it a must have for any home airplane builder.
Thank you sir. I'm pleased that you find the work
useful!
When it came close to time to start putting wires in my RV-8, I bought
Van's wiring kit, figuring it would be a good way to get off ground zero.
Their scheme puts fuse protection in the form of either switch circuit
breakers or circuit breakers, on a switch console by the front pilot's
right arm. I had decided to replace most of these per your suggestion
of automotive type fuse blocks, and toggle switches, but worked myself
into a conundrum as to what to do with their 35A circuit breaker in the
#8 wire from the alternator.
I recommend tying the alternators power output (commonly refered
to as the "b-lead") directly to the starter contactor on the
firewall via an in-line fuse and not bring the noisiest wire
in the airplane into the cockpit.
I was about to run it 'backwards' through one of the Normal Bus fuses,
thereby feeding the Normal Bus, when I ran into a problem in that the
yellow Fast On wire terminals I got from AeroElectric won't go on
this #8 wire.
This wouldn't have worked anyhow. You need to rate b-lead protection
at least 20% greater than alternator output . . . a 60A alternator
will put out 70+ amps when it's cold. I presume your alternator is
at LEAST a 35A machine . . . and if Vans provided a 35A breaker to
go with it, then you'll have a breaker DESIGNED to nuisance trip
just like the b-lead breakers in tens of thousands of spam-cans.
In the process of deciding to go back to Van's 35A circuit
breaker, I began wondering what good the circuit breaker was
doing on the cockpit end of the alternator's output wire. Have
since decided its function is to protect the alternator's
output wire, since if it shorts to ground the main source of
juice will be from the battery rather than the alternator.
The source of energy that will burn the b-lead is the BATTERY.
An alternator is incapable of delivering large fault currents . . .
the machine's magnetics simply won't allow it. The b-lead
protection is most likely going to open in response to shorted
diodes in the alternator with the second most probable cause
being a b-lead feeder shorted to ground. If you don't bring
this wire through the firewall, then the probability of this
event goes down sharply.
I prefer the in-line fuses like those sold on our website
catalog. They're easy to install and if the fuse ever opens,
it will be a result of a badly damaged and therefore disabled
alternator.
Is this correct? But after the 35A circuit breaker opens, the alternator
will still be feeding pretty significant amount of energy to the short.
You can dead short a fully fielded alternator and get only
20-30 percent more than its rated output and then only while
it's cold. As the critter warms up, the output will go down.
The alternator current goes through this 35A circuit breaker, over to
the Normal Bus fuse block stud, and then another #8 wire goes to the
Starter Relay battery terminal. So this scheme also leaves this wire
from the fuse block to the Starter Relay unprotected.
These wires generally don't require protection beyond
careful installation and maintenance to make sure they
don't rub on airframe and short out. Study the distribution
diagrams in the back of the book along with the notes.
Another thing I thought I would run by you is while looking for info
on why Van's put the alternator circuit breaker where they did, I
found their reasoning for providing separate switch circuit breakers
for Strobe and Nav Lights, and also separate switch circuit breakers
for Taxi and Landing lights. I had already decided to use your
scheme for combining Strobes and Nav on one 2-3 switch, and Taxi
and Landing lights on another. They say to put Strobes and Nav on
separate circuits, so if you get into a condition like fog maybe,
you can shut off the Strobes to keep them from blinding the pilot.
A 2-3 switch? This would turn both on and off together.
The two pole switch would allow you to power them from
separate circuits but not control them separately. By
using a 2-10 switch (progressive transfer of the two
sides) you can have the first position bring on strobes
and the second position bring on nav lights.
Same thing with landing/taxi. Some builders put in a 2-10
switch and wire so that the first position is taxi
and second position adds landing light. In any case,
you need to install fuse blocks with enough slots to
give every device in the airplane its own bus feed.
I am going to stay with your combination scheme, since my main use
will be Strobes in daylight to keep from getting run over. If I
really screw up and get into a condition where the Strobes are
blinding me, I'll shut everything off since in those conditions
the only thing likely to keep somebody from running over me will
be somebody's radar.
Agreed
Their reasoning on separate Landing and Taxi lights is that some
times bulbs fail shorted. This will take out a common fuse, leaving
no lights at all for landing. Again I'm staying with your combination
scheme, since I think bulbs failing shorted is a rare event, or I may
run the Taxi and Landing light circuits through their own fuses after
the switch. I don't intend to fly at night, but if I screw up and get
caught flying in the dark, and a shorted light bulb has taken out both
Landing and Taxi lights, I can probably find a lighted runway.
Never seen a bulb fail shorted . . . but I suppose it could
happen . . . none the less, this shouldn't be an issue because
protected circuits on fuse blocks are cheap. I try to build
a new system with at least 20% spares on each bus for future
additions. There's NO ECONOMY in having too few fuses.
Bob . . .
November 13, 2000 - February 15, 2001
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-aa