AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ab
February 15, 2001 - March 16, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com> |
Bob,
On the Lancair IVP that I'm building I would like to have the left mag
switch have an ON-OFF-(ON) function where the momentary position turns on
the primer solenoid on the engine and the high boost pump. Connecting the
primer and the boost pump into the momentary (ON) of a 2TL1-5 would work
except for the fact that the boost pump has a separate switch that functions
as OFF-LOW-HIGH boost. Connecting as such would cause the primer solenoid
to turn on when the boost pump switch was turned to the high boost position
- not good.
As I see it I need a 3TL1-5 if such a critter exists. I found a 4TL1-5 in
the Newark catalog but they want nearly $50 for it.
Maybe another solution might include a diode in the circuit to keep the
boost pump switch from turning on the primer solenoid. Another solution
might be to have a 2TL1-5 turn on a relay to energize the primer and the
boost pump.
What do you think? I'm trying to eliminate a switch on the panel much the
same as the right mag switch doubles as a starter switch.
Best regards,
Hal Woodruff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
Bob or others.....In place of the Molex connectors that the AE Connection book
refers to, I will be using AMP CPC's
(circular plastic connectors). These appear widely available (e.g. digikey) and
they appear to be a modern version of
what I consider to be kind of the old 'army' metal connectors - Amphenols. Like
any of these specialty connection
beasts, they appear to need specialty tools to build them. They go by the same
principle as the molex connectors - a
front crimp that "cuts" into the centre of the strand bundle as it wraps in, and
a rear crimp to hold the sheath. Key
question....will the Molex type crimper from Aeroelectric work on these things?
Maybe a D-sub type connector tool (I
know virtually nuthin' about these!)? If not, can you suggest a decently priced
source for something that will work?
I got onto these because they're the standard connectors on the EI engine monitoring
instruments - they look robust
and quality-like there, but of course I didn't have to BUILD any of those connectors.....
Thx
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
"engines-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"zenith-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | 0-200 Woes...... |
Well after quite a bit of good information from fellow listers, my
mechanic, and my DAR (also A&P). I decided to tear down the case.
After careful inspection, I found that the metal fragments from the
starter gear, did travel beyond the accessory case. I found metal on
the rear piston bases, the rear connecting rods, and the crankshaft. I
weighed my options, taking into consideration my financial situation,
work involved, and the time SMOH, and decided to tear the motor down,
clean all internal parts, and inspect for damage. I will re-assemble
the case with all new gaskets. I will have to replace the crankshaft
gear which is the gear the starter clutch gear tore into. I decided to
do the top end with new OEM cylinder assemblies. The cheapest way to go
at this time, yet keep a good piece of mind.
Any thoughts would be very welcome. Thanks to all that sent me all that
valuable information and suggestions.
--
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
Mike,
I'm using the CPC's along with Molex-type and use the same crimper on both.
The CPC pins are much more robust and higher quality than the Molex pins and
crimp much better, at least in this layman's judgment. I much prefer using
the CPC's but the downside is they are larger and have limited pin count
choices - smallest is 4 pin, also 8,9,14,16,27,32 as I recall. Be sure to
get the matching pin extractor - you WILL need it and it makes fixing
miscues a snap.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) wiring & systems
Bob or others.....In place of the Molex connectors that the AE Connection
book refers to, I will be using AMP CPC's
(circular plastic connectors). These appear widely available (e.g. digikey)
and they appear to be a modern version of
what I consider to be kind of the old 'army' metal connectors - Amphenols.
Like any of these specialty connection
beasts, they appear to need specialty tools to build them. They go by the
same principle as the molex connectors - a
front crimp that "cuts" into the centre of the strand bundle as it wraps in,
and a rear crimp to hold the sheath. Key
question....will the Molex type crimper from Aeroelectric work on these
things? Maybe a D-sub type connector tool (I
know virtually nuthin' about these!)? If not, can you suggest a decently
priced source for something that will work?
I got onto these because they're the standard connectors on the EI engine
monitoring instruments - they look robust
and quality-like there, but of course I didn't have to BUILD any of those
connectors.....
Thx
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
In a message dated 2/15/01 9:43:23 PM, gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
>
>Mike,
>I'm using the CPC's along with Molex-type and use the same crimper on both.
>The CPC pins are much more robust and higher quality than the Molex pins
>and
>crimp much better, at least in this layman's judgment. I much prefer using
>the CPC's but the downside is they are larger and have limited pin count
>choices - smallest is 4 pin, also 8,9,14,16,27,32 as I recall. Be sure
>to
>get the matching pin extractor - you WILL need it and it makes fixing
>miscues a snap.
>
>Regards,
So where does one buy some of these CPC units?
I am trying to make my panel removable to the greatest extent possible, I
know Im too big and fat and old to crawl under it.
Kevin in WA
-9A starting to finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <rolandbrown(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
You can buy CPC's from www.digikey.com and www.mouser.com.
These connectors are similar to the old metal "canon" connectors, but much
less expensive. You'll need to buy a crimper, pin extractor, and male and
female pins along with strain reliefs.
See page 4 of the on line catalog
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/suppliers/amp.pdf
Ronnie Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
I have used some Conxall circular sealed connectors that have solder-cup
pins like many D-sub's. If your soldering skills are pretty good, these
work well, are inexpensive, and don't need any special tools. We've used
them at work on some radio transmitters that were mounted outdoors, and they
have held up pretty well outside in Louisiana, where it's hot and wet a lot.
They are available from Newark http://www.newark.com and are
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike & Lee Anne [mailto:mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:03 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors
>
>
>
>
> Bob or others.....In place of the Molex connectors that the
> AE Connection book refers to, I will be using AMP CPC's
> (circular plastic connectors). These appear widely available
> (e.g. digikey) and they appear to be a modern version of
> what I consider to be kind of the old 'army' metal connectors
> - Amphenols. Like any of these specialty connection
> beasts, they appear to need specialty tools to build them.
> They go by the same principle as the molex connectors - a
> front crimp that "cuts" into the centre of the strand bundle
> as it wraps in, and a rear crimp to hold the sheath. Key
> question....will the Molex type crimper from Aeroelectric
> work on these things? Maybe a D-sub type connector tool (I
> know virtually nuthin' about these!)? If not, can you
> suggest a decently priced source for something that will work?
>
> I got onto these because they're the standard connectors on
> the EI engine monitoring instruments - they look robust
> and quality-like there, but of course I didn't have to BUILD
> any of those connectors.....
>
> Thx
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | B-lead protection (PM alternator) |
Hi Bob -
You wrote:
-----snip-------
"An alternator is incapable of delivering large fault currents . . .
the machine's magnetics simply won't allow it."
------snip----
Does this also apply to the permanent magnet alternator on my Rotax 912?
I'm assuming it does . . .
Thanks to all for the great discussion -
Bill Mills
RANS S-7/912uls in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | video camera input |
Thread-Topic: video camera input
Thread-Index: AcCYQkBjit1Ng9JVQMWiuenyqdjbig==
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
I'm looking to create a video camera audio input that plugs inline to
the headset jacks. I know that they're commercially available (although
expensive for what they are) but I would like to be able to mix in some
of the cockpit noise via a mic so that the video seems more natural and
not just what you hear over the intercom. Anyone do this or know how to
do it?
Thanks!
Bob Japundza
RealMed Corporation
www.realmed.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
There is an article in this month's (March 2001) Kitplane magazine by Jim
Weir. It's the monthly "Aero 'Lectrics" feature. In that article Jim
describes the use of Polyfuses, made by Raychem, as a low-cost,
light-weight, reliable way to provide circuit protection for virtually all
of the wiring in your airplane. He claims that they are more reliable than
either fuses or circuit-breakers and that they automatically reset when the
fault is removed from the wire.
This sounds too good to be true. Can Bob Nuckolls or anyone else please
comment on the appropriateness of these devices in aircraft wiring circuits?
What is the downside?
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob I'm planning on using your figure Z-8 " All Electric Airplane on a Budget.
I have two questions
1) What kind of contactor relay are you showing coming off the SD-8 Alt. with the
crowbar OV connected to it.
Do you or B&C sell one.
2) In place of the B&C LR-3 alternator controller can I use a generic "Ford" reg
with crowbar OV as is shown in your Figure Z-2.
Thanks for your help, Your book is a great resource
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-200 Woes...... |
I beleive there is zero time 0-200 on ebay if interested
John Tarabocchia wrote:
>
>
> Well after quite a bit of good information from fellow listers, my
> mechanic, and my DAR (also A&P). I decided to tear down the case.
> After careful inspection, I found that the metal fragments from the
> starter gear, did travel beyond the accessory case. I found metal on
> the rear piston bases, the rear connecting rods, and the crankshaft. I
> weighed my options, taking into consideration my financial situation,
> work involved, and the time SMOH, and decided to tear the motor down,
> clean all internal parts, and inspect for damage. I will re-assemble
> the case with all new gaskets. I will have to replace the crankshaft
> gear which is the gear the starter clutch gear tore into. I decided to
> do the top end with new OEM cylinder assemblies. The cheapest way to go
> at this time, yet keep a good piece of mind.
>
> Any thoughts would be very welcome. Thanks to all that sent me all that
> valuable information and suggestions.
>
> --
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
>
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob I'm planning on using your figure Z-8 " All Electric Airplane on a Budget.
I have two questions
>1) What kind of contactor relay are you showing coming off the SD-8 Alt. with
the crowbar OV connected to it.
>Do you or B&C sell one.
Yes, S704-1 which you can see at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s704-1
and order at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
>2) In place of the B&C LR-3 alternator controller can I use a generic "Ford" reg
with crowbar OV as is shown in your Figure Z-2.
Yes . . . but PLEASE make sure you have an alternative
ACTIVE notification of low voltage . . . a flashing
lite or warning tone for 13.0 volts or below. . ..
>Thanks for your help, Your book is a great resource
Thank you sir! It's a lot of work but I'm pleased that
so many have found the work useful . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Velvick <tomvelvick(at)home.com> |
Mr. Nuckolls,
In your book, you recommended using Welding cable instead of #2 wiring
because of its many strands and flexibility. Is this still your
recommendation? I am building a RV-6a and am also wondering is I could use
#4 AWG wire instead of #2 to the starter?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seeking Part No. Reference for Building Crowbar OV |
Module
I am seeking the current Digikey part number for the part labeled as
(MUS4991)
on Fig. 3 of the Crowbar OV Module document that appears on the
Aeroelectric web site.
I would like to build two of these units and have found all the other
parts.
Ulrich La Fosse
CH801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike & Lee Anne <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
Greg, good advice. Thanks. It raises a second question I should have thought
of in the first place. The AMPs appear to come in 2 sizes, "series 1 - standard
density applications with Multimate connectors" (maybe that word multimate is an
industry norm regarding the crimper required??), and "series 2 - high
density....size 20 DM and DF contacts, 0.040 inches dia.". The series two are
tiny buggers - have you attempted both with Bob's crimpers?
I'd dearly love to be able to do this with Bob's $40 crimpers and not the $200+
items AMP sells.
Incidently, if you don't know about the series 2, it may solve your concern on
low pin count. The biggest series 1 that I've found is a number 23 shell
(1.743" dia.) with 37 pins. Series 2 with the same shell holds either 57 or 63
pins.
Mike
Gregory Young wrote:
>
> Mike,
> I'm using the CPC's along with Molex-type and use the same crimper on both.
> The CPC pins are much more robust and higher quality than the Molex pins and
> crimp much better, at least in this layman's judgment. I much prefer using
> the CPC's but the downside is they are larger and have limited pin count
> choices - smallest is 4 pin, also 8,9,14,16,27,32 as I recall. Be sure to
> get the matching pin extractor - you WILL need it and it makes fixing
> miscues a snap.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
> RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) wiring & systems
>
>
>
> Bob or others.....In place of the Molex connectors that the AE Connection
> book refers to, I will be using AMP CPC's
> (circular plastic connectors). These appear widely available (e.g. digikey)
> and they appear to be a modern version of
> what I consider to be kind of the old 'army' metal connectors - Amphenols.
> Like any of these specialty connection
> beasts, they appear to need specialty tools to build them. They go by the
> same principle as the molex connectors - a
> front crimp that "cuts" into the centre of the strand bundle as it wraps in,
> and a rear crimp to hold the sheath. Key
> question....will the Molex type crimper from Aeroelectric work on these
> things? Maybe a D-sub type connector tool (I
> know virtually nuthin' about these!)? If not, can you suggest a decently
> priced source for something that will work?
>
> I got onto these because they're the standard connectors on the EI engine
> monitoring instruments - they look robust
> and quality-like there, but of course I didn't have to BUILD any of those
> connectors.....
>
> Thx
> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lonnie Wood" <lonnwood(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking Part No. Reference for Building Crowbar |
OV Module
Here you go: RadioShack.com, catalog # 90-3156, Motorola MBS4991. These are
not stocked in store
you have to call their parts line and order. I ordered
5, if i remember right it was under 2 bucks and they did
not charge shipping.
Lonnie
>
> I am seeking the current Digikey part number for the part labeled as
> (MUS4991)
> on Fig. 3 of the Crowbar OV Module document that appears on the
> Aeroelectric web site.
> I would like to build two of these units and have found all the other
> parts.
>
> Ulrich La Fosse
> CH801
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker |
In a message dated 02/14/2001 9:50:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> I recommend tying the alternators power output (commonly refered
> to as the "b-lead") directly to the starter contactor on the
> firewall via an in-line fuse and not bring the noisiest wire
>
Bob, you may have already covered this question that I am about to ask,
however I have not seen it.
In the case where the battery has to be mounted in the rear of the RV-8
(Io-360 with Constant speed up front) to help balance the unit, the wire from
the alternator has to be brought back into the front office. What kind of
filters do you find will do the job of cutting the noise down? Is it a good
idea to have a filter on both sides of the firewall?
Howard Cochran
1/2 of RV-8 80188
pulling wires.in Race City U.S.A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: video camera input |
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Japundza <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Date: Friday, February 16, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: video camera input
>
>I'm looking to create a video camera audio input that plugs inline to
>the headset jacks. I know that they're commercially available (although
>expensive for what they are) but I would like to be able to mix in some
>of the cockpit noise via a mic so that the video seems more natural and
>not just what you hear over the intercom. Anyone do this or know how to
>do it?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bob Japundza
>RealMed Corporation
Bob: Buy a mic patch cord that fits your camera from someplace like Radio
Shack. Cut off one plug and choose a working length. Buy an aircraft
headphone plug. Install a 1K ohm 1/4watt resister in the phone lead. There
is room inside the threaded sleeve of the aircraft plug and you can
establish strain relief. You can use a "Y" adapter for the receptacle or
install an additional jack in the aircraft. You will hear whatever the
intercom produces. On mine, there is some background noise but it is not
intrusive.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plug wires next to other wires? |
Listers,
I'm doing final wiring now and as I do final fwf routing on my EGT, CHT, and
Lasar low voltage wiring harness wires I have routed them (at least for the
time being) alongside spark plug wires in places. Then I started thinking
"hey, I wonder if that pulsing high voltage will bleed over and cause
problems with either my guages or my Lasar brain?". Anyone know if this is
ok, or will lead to problems?
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, final wiring
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>There is an article in this month's (March 2001) Kitplane magazine by Jim
>Weir. It's the monthly "Aero 'Lectrics" feature. In that article Jim
>describes the use of Polyfuses, made by Raychem, as a low-cost,
>light-weight, reliable way to provide circuit protection for virtually all
>of the wiring in your airplane. He claims that they are more reliable than
>either fuses or circuit-breakers and that they automatically reset when the
>fault is removed from the wire.
>
>This sounds too good to be true. Can Bob Nuckolls or anyone else please
>comment on the appropriateness of these devices in aircraft wiring circuits?
>What is the downside?
This topic surfaces from time to time. There was considerable discussion
about the Polyswitch's "advantages" as part of the unsubstantiated hype
associated with promoting a product. I posted two pieces on my
website several years ago. I'll invite readers to check them out at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/xpbusthd.html
First, Please understand that I have no argument with the
Polyswitch as one of many useful components in huge box
of "tinker toys" from which the clever designer can chose.
The Polyswitch functions exactly as the manufacturer says
it does.
Take a peek at these critters. I'll invite everyone to
download the Polyswitch catalog at:
http://www.circuitprotection.com/servletwl1/FileDownloader/slot110/11613/Catalog_qxd.pdf
As a parallel hypothetical let us suppose I offer you a
toggle switch that has no threaded barrel to attach it to a panel
and only etched circuit board solder pins out the back? While
the switch might be entirely suited to controlling some
device in your airplane . . . how do you work with it? You'd
have to fabricate an etched circuit board to hold the critter
in the panel such that you can wire it up and have the handle
stick through for access by your fingers.
One might offer a product built of these switches and
hype up its promotion by pointing out that the switches
have extra heavy duty contacts plated with unobtanium.
Is there value in their unique features that overshadow
the cost of dealing with their unique and limiting methodology
for mounting? Further, suppose one of those switches needs
to be replaced . . . or you want to add another switch
to the system where there are no existing provisions?
Polyswitches are components designed to be soldered into
an assembly . . . usually an etched circuit board. They
don't lend themselves to being mounted into and wired up
as a appliance in an airframe. For example, they are used
in the window lift mechanism of my GMC Van . . . when
the window reaches a mechanical limit there are no limit
switches needed to disconnect power. The mechanism simply
bottoms out and stalls the motor. If I continue to hold
the switch the system will stop drawing power in a few
seconds . . . because the Polyswitch warmed up and power
was interrupted.
Neat . . . the system is mechanically simpler and much
more reliable overall because the parts-count has been reduced.
However, there is STILL a fuse in the system to protect wiring
that conducts power from the main bus out to the system's
controls. Further, the window lift motor was DESIGNED to
include the Polyswitch AND to tolerate the stalled-motor
current while the Polyswitch does its thing.
Now, suppose I hand you a fist full of Polyswitches . . . "Go
forth my friend and protect thy wiring . . ."
How are you going to mount them? Jim's article speaks to a few
of the caveats for avoiding extraneous heating sources that
tend to lower the devices trip current. You also have to mount
them such that they're allowed to warm up . . . else they
fail to switch off. If you don't let them warm up, they get
stuck in an intermediate not quite on, not quite off state
that causes the thing to dissipate a lot of energy internally
and generally leads to self destruction.
You need to build a bus-bar structure. This is where producers
of the EXP-Bus step in . . . they've laid out an etched
circuit board and provided a place to mount Polyswitches
in the manner for which they were designed . . . Problem
is, how does the performance of this product exceed the
performance of the alternatives (bus-breaker or fuse-block)
to justify the $ needed to acquire the product?
Further, does the EXP-Bus have enough outputs and spares to
accommodate future expansion? Does the EXP-Bus have all of
the switching and power distribution features you want to
incorporate into your airplane? How about the alternate
feed-path for an essential bus? If you roll-your-own
power distribution system using Polyswitches, are you
prepared to mount them so that they'll stay in
place for a very long time? Remember, they have SOLID
wire leads intended to be soldered into a board.
In the last thread referenced above, the designer and
seller of the EXP-Bus joined the conversation and
attempted to write off my objections as a lack of
understanding about how great the Polyswitches were.
I invited him to refute my assertions with factual
data . . . he did not chose to reply.
I have never had a strong aversion for incorporation of
Polyfuses into power distribution systems because of
their operational characteristics. They WILL do exactly
what the manufacturer says . . . keep your
wires from catching fire. My objection to them for
general usage in this application is the time and
unique effort required to mount them combined with
relative inflexibility for both maintenance and future
modification.
If it were MY airplane, I would wire it up with
exactly the same components you'll find in our
website catalog.
All of these parts are easily acquired. They have no
special mounting considerations or restrictions. They're
available from multiple sources and many from multiple
manufacturers. They require no special design or
fabrication efforts to install them. Dollars AND labor
to install these components is less than any of the
pre-fabricated products I've seen to date. Trouble-
shooting and replacement of failed parts is a snap. They're
easily configured to your present and future needs.
And finally, a system assembled from these bits and
pieces is no less hazardous than any other collection of
parts you may wish to consider.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
>
>Mr. Nuckolls,
>
>In your book, you recommended using Welding cable instead of #2 wiring
>because of its many strands and flexibility. Is this still your
>recommendation? I am building a RV-6a and am also wondering is I could use
>#4 AWG wire instead of #2 to the starter?
When you have a battery mounted within two feet of the
engine, ALL of the heavy power wiring can be done
with 4AWG wire. I'd use TEFZEL everywhere except for the
short jumpers from battery to master contactor and
battery to ground. There I would substitute short pieces
of 4AWG welding cable like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#sbl
You can get these from B&C or fabricate them yourself.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Conversion |
.worldnet.att.net>
>Bob, thanks for your reply. I pulled the regulator
>apart which destroys the built in regulator but does
>givs me access to solder tabs in the "housing" that are
>connected dirctly to the various external connections on
>the regulator. I thought I could make an insulating
>bush for the brush terminal connected to the "b"lead,
>and then solder jumper connections in the regulator
>housing from one brush connection to the spade terminal
>connections. I could also solder jumpers across from
>the other brush terminal to one of the regulator housing
>terminals that is grounded. Is it critical which brush
>is grounded? (I can't imagine why it would be as this is
>an alternator not a DC generator and it seems to me that
>it wouldn't matter which way the rotor "magnet" was
>polarized - but there maybe some phyiscs that I've
>forgoten!) This will result either in a suitably
>converted alternator, or I'll have an auto alternator
>without a regulator! What's your take on this idea?
>Thanks again for your help,
>Will
I think you'll find that one of the brush
holders is wired to the alternator's B-lead
circuit through a metal strap that needs to
be cut and then supported as the single piece
has become two and the ends are waving in the
breeze. This one needs to be grounded.
The other brush holder is already connected
to one of the terminals in the cavity where the
regulator came out. You can jumper this one to
the outside world. B&C hooks them to all three
terminals so that it doesn't matter which one
you use. Some folks daisy-chain all three together
onto the single wire that goes to the regulator's
"F" terminal.
EITHER field brush can be (+) or (-) . . . it
doesn't matter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B-lead protection (PM alternator) |
>
>Hi Bob -
>
>You wrote:
>
>-----snip-------
> "An alternator is incapable of delivering large fault currents . . .
> the machine's magnetics simply won't allow it."
>------snip----
>
>Does this also apply to the permanent magnet alternator on my Rotax 912?
>I'm assuming it does . . .
Yes, all alternators are current limited unlike the old
brush and commutator generators. A properly designed
and functioning alternator won't smoke internally from
external overload. Generators would happily dump out
over 2 times their rated current and get the commutator
so hot it would throw all the MELTED solder out of
the joints.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | fw from the canard list |
[The Canard Aviators's Mailing list]
A separate regulator is desired when the battery and the regulator are in
different locations. The charging voltage required by the battery lowers as
its temperature increases. In automobiles, the battery and the alternator
are usually in the same temperature environment, ie, the engine compartment,
hence no problem with the regulator being located in the alternator.
However in my RV-6A and the VariEze, the battery is in the cabin, and that
is where the regulator should be. The regulator is temperature-compensated
for the varying requirements of the battery.
If you have an alternator with an internal regulator when the battery is in
the cabin, the battery will be undercharging by about .5 volt. This could
leave your battery in a low state of charge at any given time. This would
probably show up when starting on a cold morning. You can reduce this
problem somewhat by ducting outside air to the alternator to keep its
temperature down, but you don't have any control over this. It's better
just to put the regulator near the battery.
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 75% RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric: Circular "Pin" connectors |
>
>Greg, good advice. Thanks. It raises a second question I should have thought
>of in the first place. The AMPs appear to come in 2 sizes, "series 1 - standard
>density applications with Multimate connectors" (maybe that word multimate is
an
>industry norm regarding the crimper required??), and "series 2 - high
>density....size 20 DM and DF contacts, 0.040 inches dia.". The series two are
>tiny buggers - have you attempted both with Bob's crimpers?
>
>I'd dearly love to be able to do this with Bob's $40 crimpers and not the $200+
>items AMP sells.
>
>Incidently, if you don't know about the series 2, it may solve your concern on
>low pin count. The biggest series 1 that I've found is a number 23 shell
>(1.743" dia.) with 37 pins. Series 2 with the same shell holds either 57 or 63
>pins.
>
>Mike
The Series I AMP CPC connnectors use formed sheet metal pins
which may be installed with the BCT-1 open barrel
crimp tool. The Series II devices use the same pin as
the D-sub connector which is available both in open
barrel (applied with BCT-1) or machined (applied with
RTC-3). My personal preference for most applications
are the machined D-sub pins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker |
>
>In a message dated 02/14/2001 9:50:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
>
>> I recommend tying the alternators power output (commonly refered
>> to as the "b-lead") directly to the starter contactor on the
>> firewall via an in-line fuse and not bring the noisiest wire
>>
>
>Bob, you may have already covered this question that I am about to ask,
>however I have not seen it.
>
>In the case where the battery has to be mounted in the rear of the RV-8
>(Io-360 with Constant speed up front) to help balance the unit, the wire from
>the alternator has to be brought back into the front office. What kind of
>filters do you find will do the job of cutting the noise down? Is it a good
>idea to have a filter on both sides of the firewall?
Install no filters not called out specifically by the
manufacturer of an item you are putting into your airplane.
A properly designed electrical system doesn't
have noise that needs filters. On the rare occasion that
a noise problem comes up, we need to identify vicitim,
source and then the propogation mode. Most of the time,
reconfiguring the system to eliminate the design error
takes care of the noise. From time to time, some filtering
is ultimately needed and it's easy to add later.
No amount of filtering installed in advance can cover
for poor architecture.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fw from the canard list |
>
>[The Canard Aviators's Mailing list]
>
>A separate regulator is desired when the battery and the regulator are in
>different locations. The charging voltage required by the battery lowers as
>its temperature increases. In automobiles, the battery and the alternator
>are usually in the same temperature environment, ie, the engine compartment,
>hence no problem with the regulator being located in the alternator.
>However in my RV-6A and the VariEze, the battery is in the cabin, and that
>is where the regulator should be. The regulator is temperature-compensated
>for the varying requirements of the battery.
I can't speak to the current automotive offerings . . . and
it's been a long time since I put an automotive regulator
into the chamber to see how it adjusts for ambient.
I can tell you that EXCEPT for the products I designed
for b&C where an external battery temperature sensor is offered
as an optional accessory, regulators for aircraft are
by-in-large designed to be STABLE with temperature.
>If you have an alternator with an internal regulator when the battery is in
>the cabin, the battery will be undercharging by about .5 volt. This could
>leave your battery in a low state of charge at any given time. This would
>probably show up when starting on a cold morning. You can reduce this
>problem somewhat by ducting outside air to the alternator to keep its
>temperature down, but you don't have any control over this. It's better
>just to put the regulator near the battery.
We used to worry a LOT about charging voltages . . . I can
say that it doesn't hurt to tweak your bus voltage
a bit based on seasonal changes but it doesn't seem to
matter a great deal in terms of battery life. I have
an RG battery in my van that was subjected to a 15.0
volt setpoint on a 90A alternator. I just happened
to check the voltage once after putting in a new battery.
At first, I was ready to tear into the alternator and
FIX the regulator . . . then I noticed that the battery
I was taking out had been in the car for over three years.
Hmmmm . . . it was an old flooded battery at that. I
decided to let it ride. 18 months later, I had to
replace the alternator . . . the new one is running a
more sedate 14.6 volts. However, the battery is doing
fine . . . at least in terms of cranking the engine.
Based on recent observations and past history, I think
it's more important to worry about alternator-out operations
and the CAPACITY of your battery. Having a tad too high
regulator setpoint doesn't seem to be the Achilles heal
of a battery and we really WANT to replace the thing
every two years tops to insure capacity. Bottom line
is that the perception for tight regulation of
bus voltage with respect to battery considerations
seems to be fading.
If it were my airplane, I'd mount both battery and
regulator for convenience and minimal wiring.
Locating to satisfy any notions about temperature
compensation are a long way down on the list
of concerns.
Bob . . .th Shearing
>VariEze and 75% RV-6A
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
> When you have a battery mounted within two feet of the
> engine, ALL of the heavy power wiring can be done
> with 4AWG wire. I'd use TEFZEL everywhere except for the
> short jumpers from battery to master contactor and
> battery to ground. There I would substitute short pieces
> of 4AWG welding cable like:
So, Bob, It looks like I screwed up again. I thought you were recommending
the use of welding cable for ALL of the alternator/starter to battery
connections. This is how I have mine wired. These wires are encased in
high temp Teflon tubing. Do I need to tear these out and replace with
Teflon?
Ross
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
>
>> When you have a battery mounted within two feet of the
>> engine, ALL of the heavy power wiring can be done
>> with 4AWG wire. I'd use TEFZEL everywhere except for the
>> short jumpers from battery to master contactor and
>> battery to ground. There I would substitute short pieces
>> of 4AWG welding cable like:
>
>
>So, Bob, It looks like I screwed up again. I thought you were recommending
>the use of welding cable for ALL of the alternator/starter to battery
>connections. This is how I have mine wired. These wires are encased in
>high temp Teflon tubing. Do I need to tear these out and replace with
>Teflon?
No, if it's in place, leave it. The liklihood
of getting one of these BIG fellers hot is very
tiny.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Alternator Breaker |
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for your input and suggestions. That was fast!
>
>I am using 2-10 switches, not 2-3. I wrote that at work, and remembered the
>wrong number.
>
>Like your suggestion regarding routing of the alternator B-lead with an
>in-line fuse. Guess the in-line fuses can handle engine compartment
>temperatures OK?
Yes
>If I wanted to run an ammeter, where would I put the
>shunt?
In the alternator b-lead . . . use an instrument calibrated
from zero to some full scale value appropriate to the alternator
size. Don't use a (-)0(+) battery ammeter in this case.
>Are you an advocate of monitoring the electrical system with only a
>voltmeter?
You should have as much instrumentation as you can
put on the panel, can afford, AND understand how it's
used. At the minimum, a low voltage warning light would
get you by. A voltmeter is the next most useful (expanded
scale or digital) followed by alternator loadmeter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch? |
>
>On the Lancair IVP that I'm building I would like to have the left mag
>switch have an ON-OFF-(ON) function where the momentary position turns on
>the primer solenoid on the engine and the high boost pump. Connecting the
>primer and the boost pump into the momentary (ON) of a 2TL1-5 would work
>except for the fact that the boost pump has a separate switch that functions
>as OFF-LOW-HIGH boost. Connecting as such would cause the primer solenoid
>to turn on when the boost pump switch was turned to the high boost position
>- not good.
>As I see it I need a 3TL1-5 if such a critter exists. I found a 4TL1-5 in
>the Newark catalog but they want nearly $50 for it.
Yup, that's the going rate for Microswitch products . . .
>Maybe another solution might include a diode in the circuit to keep the
>boost pump switch from turning on the primer solenoid. Another solution
>might be to have a 2TL1-5 turn on a relay to energize the primer and the
>boost pump.
>
>What do you think? I'm trying to eliminate a switch on the panel much the
>same as the right mag switch doubles as a starter switch.
Right? Normally, we have the left mag switch control
the starter but run it though the MAG OFF contacts of
the right hand mag such that the starter cannot be
engaged with the right mag on.
I'm not sure I'd want the boost pump AND primer valve
open EVERY time I'm cranking . . . what if you're over
primed? I think I'd stay with a separate switch for
OFF-LO-HI for the boost pump. Why a Low and High boost
on a carbureted engine? Is this a fuel injected engine?
If so, why a primer system?
I'm not sure there's a way to reduce the number of
switches . . .need to know a few things about your
engine and then let's thrash it a bit . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
> No, if it's in place, leave it. The liklihood
> of getting one of these BIG fellers hot is very
> tiny.
>
> Bob . .
Thanks, Bob...the welding wire is sure nice to work with.
Ross.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vaso(at)Bovan.com" <vaso(at)bovan.com> |
| Subject: | N100 Alternator ? |
Has anyone got information to share on the N100 "experimental" alternator ?
See http://www.nationalairparts.com/N100.html.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Glastar Project |
I am building a Glastar with an autoconversion. The engine is the all aluminum
Nissan
V-6 rated at 190 hp. I have it mounted on the airplane after running it on a test
stand.
I am using an after market engine computer which I have wired and the engine runs
great. I will be using two in tank high pressure walbro fuel pumps in a header
tank for fuel injection. Also using coil over plug electronic ignition. This
engine
has an igniter on every coil so no problem there.
Anyway, I have been following your writings and I have your manual,
the revision 8. I also purchased some items from you and hope to
purchase more from B&C. I have been studying wiring for about 3
years trying to learn what will work.
The big problem I have is the two batteries for weight and balance will
be going behind the first bulk head which is about 10 ft plus from the
firewall. I want all the redundancy I can get so two RG batteries. I'm
not sure what is the best way to go. In Contact Magazine, a homebuilder
was using separate leads from his two batteries to his hot bus for his
ignition and fuel. I've seen your drawing but I am a little confused as how
I should proceed with the batteries that far away. Questions like a copper
conduit for the 2AWG wire to the firewall? Redundancy power for the
computers, (I will be using a backup computer for ignition and a a/c nozzle
into the intake for backup fuel) etc.
(1) Two 17 a.h. RG batteries located together
behind seats. Each has it's own battery
master contactor and feeds a single 2AWG
wire that comes forward to the starter
contactor.
(2) A fuseblock mounted at each battery
provides an always-hot bus for each
half of the goodies necessary to keep
the engine running. ELECTRICALLY
DEPENDENT ENGINES SHOULD BE POWERED
DIRECTLY FROM ALWAYS HOT BATTERY BUSSES,
NOT THROUGH THE BATTERY MASTER/BUS BARS
SYSTEM.
(3) Ground each battery separately through
its own 4AWG leadwire between battery (-)
to firewall ground stud.
(4) No conduit necessary or even helpful
in a metal airplane.
Do you have any specific wiring diagrams for my above situation?
I assume I should be able to get all I need from the ones you have
published in "The AeroElectric Connection". I was a farm boy turned
Dentist but I'm no engineer.
Not much different than Figures Z-1 and/or
Z-2 implemented as I've described above.
Things are going great on the Glastar. Oh yes I will need a radio and
GPS. I think I will by the radio you have on your web page. Light and
great for what I want. Any suggestions concerning a moving map
display GPS. I'm not that up to speed on the new avionics.
I don't follow the avionics market closely.
You need to talk to folks on any list-servers
to which you subscribe. Suggest you sign up
for the AeroElectric List on matronics.com
Write again if I can help.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N100 Alternator ? |
>
>Has anyone got information to share on the N100 "experimental" alternator ?
>See http://www.nationalairparts.com/N100.html.
This looks like a 60A Nipon-Dienso . . . same as the
B&C L-60 . . . however, it's been modified for a larger
pulley . . . unnecessary and in my not so humble opinion,
throws away capability to carry system loads at taxi
RPMs.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Lasar and Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
Does anyone out there have the temperature sensing Lasar system and the RMI
Micromonitor? I have a two-in-one probe from Unison for plugging into the
CHT fitting on the cylinder . This probe has four wires - two from a
thermistor which tell the Lasar what the CHT is doing and two thermocouple
wires. The problem is that the thermocouple is not of the grounded variety,
which most are. Ron M. told me to try it, and maybe add a resistor to that
probe if it misbehaves, but he wasn't really sure if it would work.
Anyone run into this?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)inforum.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N100 Alternator ? |
Bob
I have a alternator on my Glasair 1 that had a small pulley. I
recently changed it to a larger pulley when I was trying to isolate a
vibration that occurred at higher RPM. I calculated the alternator
was turning over 9000 rpm at 2500 engine rpm. Do you not
consider this excessive? I plan to use a 2 alternator system on my
Glasair I am building. I don't know what the pad mounted
alternator will be turning at engine cruise, but the main alternator
again will be really spinning with a small pulley. Your views.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N100 Alternator ? |
My RV has a junkyard (not even rebuilt) Suzuki Samari Nippon Denso alt.
(internal reg) which spins around 9,000rpm at cruise (2400 rpm). It has run
flawlessly for 800 hours and endured many 4+G maneuvers. I have a separate
cooling tube to it and left the existing internal fan. Kevin Lane N3773
RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)inforum.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: N100 Alternator ?
>
> Bob
> I have a alternator on my Glasair 1 that had a small pulley. I
> recently changed it to a larger pulley when I was trying to isolate a
> vibration that occurred at higher RPM. I calculated the alternator
> was turning over 9000 rpm at 2500 engine rpm. Do you not
> consider this excessive? I plan to use a 2 alternator system on my
> Glasair I am building. I don't know what the pad mounted
> alternator will be turning at engine cruise, but the main alternator
> again will be really spinning with a small pulley. Your views.
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)inforum.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N100 Alternator ? |
From: "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: N100 Alternator ?
Send reply to: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> My RV has a junkyard (not even rebuilt) Suzuki Samari Nippon Denso alt.
> (internal reg) which spins around 9,000rpm at cruise (2400 rpm). It has
> run flawlessly for 800 hours and endured many 4+G maneuvers. I have a
> separate cooling tube to it and left the existing internal fan. Kevin
> Lane N3773 RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Robinson"
> To: Sent: Tuesday,
> February 20, 2001 7:49 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: N100 Alternator
> ?
>
>
> >
> >
> > Bob
> > I have a alternator on my Glasair 1 that had a small pulley. I
> > recently changed it to a larger pulley when I was trying to isolate a
> > vibration that occurred at higher RPM. I calculated the alternator was
> > turning over 9000 rpm at 2500 engine rpm. Do you not consider this
> > excessive? I plan to use a 2 alternator system on my Glasair I am
> > building. I don't know what the pad mounted alternator will be turning
> > at engine cruise, but the main alternator again will be really spinning
> > with a small pulley. Your views.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>Kevin
I also have been running my alternator for quite some time at that
speed. It was only when trying to get rid of a vibration that we even
calculated the alternator RPM. I just felt that there was no need to
turn it that fast. It is still turning 2800 RPM at 800 engine RPM. It
just seemed like a better idea.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <edperry64(at)netzero.net> |
Hi list,
I have an RV-8 and am working on the electrical subpanel. I messed up
and went with circuit breakers. I now see the advantage of working with
a fuse box.
My question is....I have 2 PotterBrumfield W23's,then 4 W58's, then 2
W23's. The tabs for the W23's and W58's are different. How can I hook
them together? What size wire to use for the power line? My highest CB
rating is 15amp.
If you need more info let me know...
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N100 Alternator ? |
>
>Bob
>I have a alternator on my Glasair 1 that had a small pulley. I
>recently changed it to a larger pulley when I was trying to isolate a
>vibration that occurred at higher RPM. I calculated the alternator
>was turning over 9000 rpm at 2500 engine rpm. Do you not
>consider this excessive? I plan to use a 2 alternator system on my
>Glasair I am building. I don't know what the pad mounted
>alternator will be turning at engine cruise, but the main alternator
>again will be really spinning with a small pulley. Your views.
>
>Jim
B&C takes extra pains to balance the rotors of their
products to very fine tolerances so that they will run
happily at over 10,000 rpm. Leaving the small pulley
in place has some distinct advantages. It increases
cowl clearance on many airplanes. It keeps alternator
speed up during idle/taxi operations which allows the
alternator to carry more of ship's electrical loads
and possibly recharge the battery faster.
Alternators running on the vacuum pump pad generally run
3500 to 4000 rpm . . . quite sedate speeds. We'd really
like for the pad to be faster . . . we could get as
much as 40 amps out of the SD-20 pad mounted alternator
if the pad were geared faster.
If you're not using a B&C alternator up front, consider
having the rotor balanced.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Hi list,
>
>I have an RV-8 and am working on the electrical subpanel. I messed up
>and went with circuit breakers. I now see the advantage of working with
>a fuse box.
>
>My question is....I have 2 PotterBrumfield W23's,then 4 W58's, then 2
>W23's. The tabs for the W23's and W58's are different. How can I hook
>them together? What size wire to use for the power line? My highest CB
>rating is 15amp.
>
>If you need more info let me know...
>
>Ed Perry
>edperry64(at)netzero.net
Take a look at any certified ship with circuit breakers
and you find that they're all the same style and have
threaded fasteners on the back to support a strip of
brass or copper drilled with holes at intevals matching
the breaker spacing.
If you're going to use breakers effectively, uniformity
is real important. Your only alternative is to take
individual wires from each breaker to a bolted junction
that lets you fan out the bus feeder to each breaker through
SHORT lengths of wire . . . this drives up the parts count
and clutter behind the panel but I don't know of any other
way to do it.
Have you considered changing over to fuseblocks?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch |
| From: | Hal Woodruff <woodruff(at)swefco.com> |
Hi Bob,
The engine is a Continental TSIO-550E fire breathing monster. Both mags are
armed with impulse couplers, so, both mags needs to be "hot" when cranking
the engine. The engine is injected AND it has a primer. I guess it just
bypasses the mixture control and allows fuel to be dumped into the cylinders
via the injectors. The boost pump is a two position pump. It has a low
boost position that is selected at high altitude operation, and a high boost
position that is operated if the mechanical pump fails. There is a separate
switch (OFF/LOW/HIGH) for operating the boost pump.
The start sequence includes operating the primer solenoid. A pushbutton
switch operates the primer system. Pushing the button energizes the primer
solenoid, and energizes the HIGH boost lead of the boost pump. This is
completely separate from the boost pump switch.
I want to be able to replace this pushbutton with the right mag switch by
having an ON/OFF/(ON) switch for the right mag. (Since both mags need to be
hot I don't need to run the starter circuit through the left mag "off"
position). As I see it, I need a 3PDT switch for the right mag. One pole
is for the mag as usually set up; another pole is for the primer solenoid;
and the third is for the High lead of the boost pump. I can't wire the
primer solenoid and the High lead of the boost pump together because if I
ever needed the high boost (eg. mech pump failure), switching the FUEL PUMP
switch to high boost would also turn on the primer solenoid. This would be
bad.
The 3PDT toggle is the switch that I'm looking for and can't find. I've
found a 4PDT switch (but its expensive). A 2TL1-5 switch [ON/OFF/(ON)] and
a relay could work. The relay when energized would switch on the primer
solenoid and the high boost. And, as mentioned before, a diode in the
circuit (to keep the boost pump switch from turning on the primer solenoid)
could work although I'm concerned about the failure mode of the diode.
Have I thoroughly confused the issue? (g) What do you think is the best
solution? Can a 3PDT toggle be found? I can send drawings of the the
circuit I want to do if that would help.
Thanks in advance for the help. BTW, I can't find my copy of your book - I
must have lent it to someone years ago. How can I get an updated copy?
Hal Woodruff
> From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:51:00 -0800
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest List
> Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 02/19/01
>
>>
>> On the Lancair IVP that I'm building I would like to have the left mag
>> switch have an ON-OFF-(ON) function where the momentary position turns on
>> the primer solenoid on the engine and the high boost pump. Connecting the
>> primer and the boost pump into the momentary (ON) of a 2TL1-5 would work
>> except for the fact that the boost pump has a separate switch that functions
>> as OFF-LOW-HIGH boost. Connecting as such would cause the primer solenoid
>> to turn on when the boost pump switch was turned to the high boost position
>> - not good.
>
>> As I see it I need a 3TL1-5 if such a critter exists. I found a 4TL1-5 in
>> the Newark catalog but they want nearly $50 for it.
>
> Yup, that's the going rate for Microswitch products . . .
>
>
>> Maybe another solution might include a diode in the circuit to keep the
>> boost pump switch from turning on the primer solenoid. Another solution
>> might be to have a 2TL1-5 turn on a relay to energize the primer and the
>> boost pump.
>>
>> What do you think? I'm trying to eliminate a switch on the panel much the
>> same as the right mag switch doubles as a starter switch.
>
> Right? Normally, we have the left mag switch control
> the starter but run it though the MAG OFF contacts of
> the right hand mag such that the starter cannot be
> engaged with the right mag on.
>
> I'm not sure I'd want the boost pump AND primer valve
> open EVERY time I'm cranking . . . what if you're over
> primed? I think I'd stay with a separate switch for
> OFF-LO-HI for the boost pump. Why a Low and High boost
> on a carbureted engine? Is this a fuel injected engine?
> If so, why a primer system?
>
> I'm not sure there's a way to reduce the number of
> switches . . .need to know a few things about your
> engine and then let's thrash it a bit . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
Hi list:
I'm using two 18 AH batteries mounted in parallel in
my velocity. Anybody know what size/type wire I
can/should use between the two batteries?
Mike Deeter
Velocity Elite RG
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring Change |
Bob:
I've been planning to wire the alternator/starter
contactor/starter area of my wiring using Figure Z-1.
Upon reading this and other posts and looking at Z-14
I said, "Yikes, I have a Skytec PM starter." In
accordance w/ Z-14, I ordered and received the S704-1
relay and am about to return the starter contactor to
B&C. Please stop me if I've missed something and
still need the starter contactor in addition to the
relay. Thx.
Mike Deeter
Velocity Elite RG
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> A few weeks ago I published a diagram that speaks to
> a run-on problem exhibited by starters with
> permanent
> magnet motors.
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fig Z-14 SKY-TEC Starter Wiring |
Change
>
>Bob:
>
>I've been planning to wire the alternator/starter
>contactor/starter area of my wiring using Figure Z-1.
>Upon reading this and other posts and looking at Z-14
>I said, "Yikes, I have a Skytec PM starter." In
>accordance w/ Z-14, I ordered and received the S704-1
>relay and am about to return the starter contactor to
>B&C. Please stop me if I've missed something and
>still need the starter contactor in addition to the
>relay. Thx.
>
>Mike Deeter
>Velocity Elite RG
Nope, just the S704-1 . . . the starter contactor
can go back.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
>
>Hi list:
>
>I'm using two 18 AH batteries mounted in parallel in
>my velocity. Anybody know what size/type wire I
>can/should use between the two batteries?
>
>Mike Deeter
>Velocity Elite RG
You can use 4AWG jumpers from battery to ground post
and battery to master contactor. Consider fabtricating
from welding cable as shown in our website catalog
for ease of maintenance.
Wiring beyond the contactors is scheduled according to
how far the batteries are from the engine. If all the way
up front, use 2AWG for main feeder and ground wires. If
the batteries are amidships or back on firewall, you
can probably wire the whole airplane with 4AWG for
major feeders.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Irvine <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> |
> My question is....I have 2 PotterBrumfield
> W23's,then 4 W58's, then 2
> W23's. The tabs for the W23's and W58's are
> different. How can I hook
> them together?
> Ed Perry
> edperry64(at)netzero.net
Ed,
I'm assuming the problem is that the tabs are
different heights/positions. I saw this fix on a
buddy's Long-EZ: take a piece of 1/4" copper tubing,
bend it horizontally so that it reaches all the tabs
(should look like a snake.) Then use a hammer and
anvil to carefully flatten the tube (now it looks like
a flat snake.) Now you can bend it vertically as
needed to reach the tabs (you may have to try this
several times to get the lengths to work out.) Once
it fits nicely against the tabs, drill holes thru the
flattened tubing for the mounting screws.
I thought this was a pretty slick idea for connecting
those uneven CB tabs. If you want, you can even add
short lengths of heat-shrink between the holes for
insulation. Hope this helps,
Bill Irvine
Cessna 310
"Sacred cows make great hamburgers."
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <edperry64(at)netzero.net> |
Hi Bill,
That is a good idea. After reconsidering I have decided to follow Lectric
Bob's advise and do the Fuse Block. I seems much easier and if I can get rid
of about 17 CB's I should come out ahead.
Thanks Again,
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Irvine <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: CB buss bar
>
>
> > My question is....I have 2 PotterBrumfield
> > W23's,then 4 W58's, then 2
> > W23's. The tabs for the W23's and W58's are
> > different. How can I hook
> > them together?
> > Ed Perry
> > edperry64(at)netzero.net
>
> Ed,
> I'm assuming the problem is that the tabs are
> different heights/positions. I saw this fix on a
> buddy's Long-EZ: take a piece of 1/4" copper tubing,
> bend it horizontally so that it reaches all the tabs
> (should look like a snake.) Then use a hammer and
> anvil to carefully flatten the tube (now it looks like
> a flat snake.) Now you can bend it vertically as
> needed to reach the tabs (you may have to try this
> several times to get the lengths to work out.) Once
> it fits nicely against the tabs, drill holes thru the
> flattened tubing for the mounting screws.
>
> I thought this was a pretty slick idea for connecting
> those uneven CB tabs. If you want, you can even add
> short lengths of heat-shrink between the holes for
> insulation. Hope this helps,
>
> Bill Irvine
> Cessna 310
>
> "Sacred cows make great hamburgers."
>
>
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices!
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vaso(at)Bovan.com" <vaso(at)bovan.com> |
| Subject: | Seat Heating Pads ? |
Some aircraft have eating pads embedded in the seats to supplement heated
air. Is there a source for such pads ? Has anyone adapted automobile seat
heating pads for this purpose ? How much heat power do these pads provide ?
-Vaso
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Here's a link for seat pads
http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/p_carbotex_round_deluxe_system.html
Another option is to use a heated vest and leave the jacket in the back.
http://www.4atlast.com/
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (res) Gooping up the tanks
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaso(at)Bovan.com" <vaso(at)bovan.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Seat Heating Pads ?
>
> Some aircraft have eating pads embedded in the seats to supplement heated
> air. Is there a source for such pads ? Has anyone adapted automobile seat
> heating pads for this purpose ? How much heat power do these pads provide
?
>
> -Vaso
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Check the motor cycle shops. Harley Davidson, etc.
Howard
1/2 of 80188
pulling wire
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Auto heating pads work fine but will cook your butt after initial warmup unless
you install the two pads with a 3 pos. sw....center off, both in parallel, both
in series, which means that the right seat connection is insulated and wired in
either parallel or series..will keep you toasty..can supply details if you wish.
Regards, Vern S.
"Vaso(at)Bovan.com" wrote:
>
> Some aircraft have eating pads embedded in the seats to supplement heated
> air. Is there a source for such pads ? Has anyone adapted automobile seat
> heating pads for this purpose ? How much heat power do these pads provide ?
>
> -Vaso
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tarabocchia <zodiac.builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Vern Smith wrote:
>
> Auto heating pads work fine but will cook your butt after initial warmup unless
> you install the two pads with a 3 pos. sw....center off, both in parallel, both
> in series, which means that the right seat connection is insulated and wired
in
> either parallel or series..will keep you toasty..can supply details if you wish.
> Regards, Vern S.
>
>
What sort of power do these seats require?
John W. Tarabocchia
601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
Airframe 100% Complete...
Installing Wire and Engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Try the seat heater offered here http://www.4atlast.com/index.htm
or contact them for material for custom seat cushions.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Hi John..you should still be able to find the heat pads at WalMart etc. (northern
states)
as they are only carried seasonally..use cigarette lighter sockets, one mounted
on
non-metallic materiel, fairly low wattage..fuse individually (miniature fuses
as used by
Ford, etc. work, readily available). regards, Vern S.
John Tarabocchia wrote:
>
> Vern Smith wrote:
>
> >
> > Auto heating pads work fine but will cook your butt after initial warmup unless
> > you install the two pads with a 3 pos. sw....center off, both in parallel,
both
> > in series, which means that the right seat connection is insulated and wired
in
> > either parallel or series..will keep you toasty..can supply details if you
wish.
> > Regards, Vern S.
> >
> >
>
> What sort of power do these seats require?
>
> John W. Tarabocchia
>
> 601hds N6042T Web Site: http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder/Home.html
> Airframe 100% Complete...
> Installing Wire and Engine...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
>> Hi John..you should still be able to find the heat pads at WalMart etc.
(northern states) as they are only carried seasonally..use cigarette lighter
sockets, one mounted on non-metallic materiel, fairly low wattage..fuse
individually (miniature fuses as used by Ford, etc. work, readily
available). regards, Vern S. <<
The following post by Norman Hunger answers a lot of your questions.
Ernest Kells
RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Quote: > Almost any seat can be turned into a heater with the addition of
heated seat pad elements. Those of you with late model higher end cars know
exactly what
I'm talking about.
It's a piece of cake in a seat like the ones we are using. The element is a
thin mesh of carbon fiber that can be trimmed as neccessary. The have a high
and a low setting. High might be used for start-up but low is toasty warm
for hours after. They burn 7.5 amps on high per seat (each seat has it's own
control). The whole kit weighs next to nothing.
Check out this company in Brighton Mi:
http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/
The specific link to the heated seats is:
http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/p_carbotex_seat_heaters.html
These people should have dealers all accross North America so it shouldn't
be too hard for builders to find these locally. I would be interested to
hear what prices are out there.
I wonder if the canard people have latched onto these.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
Thanks, Bob. Based on postings here in the last
couple of days I looked in the Connection and found
the reference to welding cables. Bought some and have
done exactly as you've described. I've been well
trained to just follow the AeroConn guidance. Great
reference. I'd be lost without it. Thanks again.
Mike
> >I'm using two 18 AH batteries mounted in parallel
> in
> >my velocity. Anybody know what size/type wire I
> >can/should use between the two batteries?
> >
> >Mike Deeter
> >Velocity Elite RG
>
>
> You can use 4AWG jumpers from battery to ground post
> and battery to master contactor. Consider
> fabtricating
> from welding cable as shown in our website catalog
> for ease of maintenance.
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Thanks for your comment..a better solution to a cold problem. I, for one, will
check
this out. Regards, Vern Smith
Ernest Kells wrote:
>
> >> Hi John..you should still be able to find the heat pads at WalMart etc.
> (northern states) as they are only carried seasonally..use cigarette lighter
> sockets, one mounted on non-metallic materiel, fairly low wattage..fuse
> individually (miniature fuses as used by Ford, etc. work, readily
> available). regards, Vern S. <<
>
> The following post by Norman Hunger answers a lot of your questions.
> Ernest Kells
> RV-9A - Building Wings, Planning: O-235 Wood Prop
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
>
> Quote: > Almost any seat can be turned into a heater with the addition of
> heated seat pad elements. Those of you with late model higher end cars know
> exactly what
> I'm talking about.
>
> It's a piece of cake in a seat like the ones we are using. The element is a
> thin mesh of carbon fiber that can be trimmed as neccessary. The have a high
> and a low setting. High might be used for start-up but low is toasty warm
> for hours after. They burn 7.5 amps on high per seat (each seat has it's own
> control). The whole kit weighs next to nothing.
>
> Check out this company in Brighton Mi:
> http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/
> The specific link to the heated seats is:
> http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/p_carbotex_seat_heaters.html
> These people should have dealers all accross North America so it shouldn't
> be too hard for builders to find these locally. I would be interested to
> hear what prices are out there.
>
> I wonder if the canard people have latched onto these.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery wiring |
>
>Thanks, Bob. Based on postings here in the last
>couple of days I looked in the Connection and found
>the reference to welding cables. Bought some and have
>done exactly as you've described. I've been well
>trained to just follow the AeroConn guidance. Great
>reference. I'd be lost without it. Thanks again.
>
>Mike
You're most welcome sir . . . I'm pleased
that you find the work useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Electoluminescent Lighting |
Bob, All,
I just got an electroluminescent Flatlite sample kit ($75) from E-Lite
Technologies Inc http://www.e-lite.com. ,nice web site. This product appears
to have real potential for aircraft illumination. The kit is powered by a
small potted inverter which produces 280v 650Hz AC (I haven't checked it
yet)with enough power to handle 40 some square inches of Flatlite. The
Flatlite comes in a blue-green and a white. The Flatlighting comes in
numerous widths and you buy it by the foot.
My questions concerns possible problems with this high frequency, high
voltage.
-Have you any experience with this type of lighting? Any general
comments on what to look out for?
- I plan on mounting a 1/2 to 1 inch wide strip under the glare
shield with double sided tape. I'd like to use it for a dome light as well.
Can I safely switch this high voltage with standard toggle switches?
-I plan to put your small dimmer upstream of the inverter to control
light intensity. It appears to have more than enough power capacity, though
I haven't tried this yet.
-If this works out as well as I think it will, this would be great
stuff to offer in your catalog. You could have a range of inverters, dimming
controls, Flatlite strips and panels all engineered to work together in an
airplane.
John W Livingston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electoluminescent Lighting |
>
>Bob, All,
>
> I just got an electroluminescent Flatlite sample kit ($75) from E-Lite
>Technologies Inc http://www.e-lite.com. ,nice web site. This product appears
>to have real potential for aircraft illumination. The kit is powered by a
>small potted inverter which produces 280v 650Hz AC (I haven't checked it
>yet)with enough power to handle 40 some square inches of Flatlite. The
>Flatlite comes in a blue-green and a white. The Flatlighting comes in
>numerous widths and you buy it by the foot.
EL lighting has been available for cockpit flood lighting
from several suppliers for a number of years. Saw a product
in the FlyMarket at OSH probably 7-8 years ago. It's a viable
alternative to other lamps for this purpose.
> My questions concerns possible problems with this high frequency, high
>voltage.
Many of Raytheon (Beechcraft) ships use EL lighting for the
back of switch panels. This is a very mature technology
with wide acceptance in aircraft. I did a controlled inverter
design for use on Barons and Bonanzas while working at
Electro-Mech about 20 years ago. I think it's still being
used in those airplanes today.
> -Have you any experience with this type of lighting? Any general
>comments on what to look out for?
>
> - I plan on mounting a 1/2 to 1 inch wide strip under the glare
>shield with double sided tape. I'd like to use it for a dome light as well.
>Can I safely switch this high voltage with standard toggle switches?
Ought to work.
> -I plan to put your small dimmer upstream of the inverter to control
>light intensity. It appears to have more than enough power capacity, though
>I haven't tried this yet.
I think it will work just fine . . .
> -If this works out as well as I think it will, this would be great
>stuff to offer in your catalog. You could have a range of inverters, dimming
>controls, Flatlite strips and panels all engineered to work together in an
>airplane.
>
>John W Livingston
>
I'll check them out.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
I put automotive heated seat pads into my leather seats. They don't work if
you are doing thick woolen sheepskin but they work great with any thinner
material.
Mine have two settings, high, low and off. The kit includes a very nice
lighted switch. The high setting uses 4 amps (per seat) and each seat has
it's own control. The high setting is great for the first ten minutes in
normal cool temps but will eventually cook your butt if it is any warmer
than -10 Celsius. The low setting is perfect for long term use even on days
up to +10 Celsius. I have a friend that uses them in the summer when driving
home from a game of golf. He swears by them but swearing isn't nice....
Also available are heated vests that plug into a cig lighter socket.
Available at most motorcycle shops. Again, they don't work unless you wear
them under your clothes near your skin, perhaps just on top of a T-shirt.
I recently rented a snowmobile that used this same technology to heat the
handgrips. They were great.
I am now spoiled and will not buy a car without these but any good
automotive upholstery shop can add them for around $200 USD per seat. My
wife's car has them and she has declared I can never get her a car without
them ever again. Ho-hum.......
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
>
> Some aircraft have eating pads embedded in the seats to supplement heated
> air. Is there a source for such pads ? Has anyone adapted automobile seat
> heating pads for this purpose ? How much heat power do these pads provide
?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 12v Dry Cells... |
Hi Listers,
This might have been discussed already, but a friend of mine passed the
URL below on to me today and it seemed like something that might be
handy for saving a few lbs in a plane. Anyone tried these drycells in
an aircraft enviroment?
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
Bob,
What was your source for the dimmer pot that you used in designing your
dimmer? I just installed the dimmer and it worked great but the pot went
south almost immediately. Still works, sort of: turn the pot, it clicks and
the lights come on, turn it back, it clicks and the lights go off. This is
tactile click, not audible. Anyway, do you have a Radio Shack part number
for it, or any part number? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
Hello Bob & all. I don't know if you've seen or heard of Roy LoPriesti's
latest nifty product. He's now selling a high intesity discharge lighting
system for aircraft, including experimentals. For those not familiar , these
are the same "cool blue" looking lites seen on late model luxery /
performance cars. J.C. Whitney even sells kits for after market upgrading of
cars. These lites have the ultimate candlepower per amp draw. I really hated
the current draw (20 amps total) I had decided on for my 130 watt (ea) H3
landing and taxi lites. I never took it upon myself to consider putting one
of these HID kits in my homebuilt because of concerns about potential radio
noise. I assumed these lites essentially established an arc at the normal
filament location. Do you have any thoughts on this Bob ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... who swiped the URL? |
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>This might have been discussed already, but a friend of mine passed the
>URL below on to me today and it seemed like something that might be
>handy for saving a few lbs in a plane. Anyone tried these drycells in
>an aircraft enviroment?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>
>
>--
>
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
Matt, would like to check these things out but I think the
URL fell off the edge of your message.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Starter Switch Diode |
Bob,
I went to my local electronics' store to buy the diode for the S704-1 for
the STec Starter. They cross-referenced your IN4005 part number and I ended
up with a NTE116. Here are the specks:
PRV-600V Max
IFSM-30A Max
IF-1A Max
VF- 1.1V@1A
Is this the right one?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HID lighting |
I just looked into aftermarket suppliers of these. They are spendy needing
a ballast and controller and run $300+ each. Bright but not worth the money
and complexity IMHO.
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: HID lighting
>
> Hello Bob & all. I don't know if you've seen or heard of Roy LoPriesti's
> latest nifty product. He's now selling a high intesity discharge lighting
> system for aircraft, including experimentals. For those not familiar ,
these
> are the same "cool blue" looking lites seen on late model luxery /
> performance cars. J.C. Whitney even sells kits for after market upgrading
of
> cars. These lites have the ultimate candlepower per amp draw. I really
hated
> the current draw (20 amps total) I had decided on for my 130 watt (ea) H3
> landing and taxi lites. I never took it upon myself to consider putting
one
> of these HID kits in my homebuilt because of concerns about potential
radio
> noise. I assumed these lites essentially established an arc at the normal
> filament location. Do you have any thoughts on this Bob ?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electoluminescent Lighting |
In a message dated 2/23/01 8:38:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< -If this works out as well as I think it will, this would be great stuff
to offer in your catalog. >>
Bob; I think you will find a lot of interest in this for your catalog,
myself definitely included, if you added such a product to your catalog.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <brucegray(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HID lighting |
The problem is in finding an aircraft compatible reflector (PAR 46 or PAR 36).
I
have developed an adjustable (Spot or Flood) PAR 36 or 46 reflector that uses
HID technology. We're in product testing now (flying). The PAR 46 puts out
400,000 CP and the PAR 36 puts out 600,000 CP. No bulb to burn out because there
is no filament.
Bruce
Glasair III
Ross wrote:
>
> I just looked into aftermarket suppliers of these. They are spendy needing
> a ballast and controller and run $300+ each. Bright but not worth the money
> and complexity IMHO.
>
> Ross
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:22 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: HID lighting
>
> >
> > Hello Bob & all. I don't know if you've seen or heard of Roy LoPriesti's
> > latest nifty product. He's now selling a high intesity discharge lighting
> > system for aircraft, including experimentals. For those not familiar ,
> these
> > are the same "cool blue" looking lites seen on late model luxery /
> > performance cars. J.C. Whitney even sells kits for after market upgrading
> of
> > cars. These lites have the ultimate candlepower per amp draw. I really
> hated
> > the current draw (20 amps total) I had decided on for my 130 watt (ea) H3
> > landing and taxi lites. I never took it upon myself to consider putting
> one
> > of these HID kits in my homebuilt because of concerns about potential
> radio
> > noise. I assumed these lites essentially established an arc at the normal
> > filament location. Do you have any thoughts on this Bob ?
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)inforum.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HID lighting |
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HID lighting
Send reply to: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I just looked into aftermarket suppliers of these. They are spendy
> needing a ballast and controller and run $300+ each. Bright but not worth
> the money and complexity IMHO.
>
> Ross
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:22 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: HID lighting
>
>
> >
> > Hello Bob & all. I don't know if you've seen or heard of Roy
> > LoPriesti's latest nifty product. He's now selling a high intesity
> > discharge lighting system for aircraft, including experimentals. For
> > those not familiar ,
> these
> > are the same "cool blue" looking lites seen on late model luxery /
> > performance cars. J.C. Whitney even sells kits for after market
> > upgrading
> of
> > cars. These lites have the ultimate candlepower per amp draw. I really
> hated
> > the current draw (20 amps total) I had decided on for my 130 watt (ea)
> > H3 landing and taxi lites. I never took it upon myself to consider
> > putting
> one
> > of these HID kits in my homebuilt because of concerns about potential
> radio
> > noise. I assumed these lites essentially established an arc at the
> > normal filament location. Do you have any thoughts on this Bob ?
> >
>From what I read, the advantage was that the filiment did not break
which seems to be common on regular bulbs because of the
vibration.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com> |
I just received an order of 50 ft of RG400 cable that came rolled and
kinked. The outside insulation is broken in several places. Does this affect
the electrical performance of the wire or can moisture get under the
shielding and cause a problem down the road.
Al, Super Rebel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Send it back, it can not be used for any RF application.
Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al &
Deb Paxhia
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG400
I just received an order of 50 ft of RG400 cable that came rolled and
kinked. The outside insulation is broken in several places. Does this affect
the electrical performance of the wire or can moisture get under the
shielding and cause a problem down the road.
Al, Super Rebel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com> |
Carl,
I'm planning to use RG-400 for my nav/com, transponder and gps antenna
leads. What do you recommend?
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RG400
>
> Send it back, it can not be used for any RF application.
> Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
> Vienna, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al &
> Deb Paxhia
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:46 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG400
>
>
>
>
> I just received an order of 50 ft of RG400 cable that came rolled and
> kinked. The outside insulation is broken in several places. Does this
affect
> the electrical performance of the wire or can moisture get under the
> shielding and cause a problem down the road.
> Al, Super Rebel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
> Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
Why RG-400? Well here's what Bob Nuckolls has to say about it...
"I would recommend RG-400 as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses
silver-plated double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is
an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality. It uses
polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer allowed in certificated
aircraft."
The question really is "why would you use anything else?"
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, finishing wiring
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Randy,
Everything you said is correct. For most typical applications however
you
would never be able to measure any benefit from using the 400 versus a good
quality (Belden) RG-58AU coax. At 1/8 the price of RG-400, RG-58AU is the
value choice. If you have deep pockets, this is not an issue. For the
small amount needed in for our airplanes you would not pay out that much
anyway. As you point out, RG-58 is not approved for certified
installations.
What usually falls through the cracks on coax is it has a limited life
when
exposed to the elements. If you fail to seal the terminations, the coax
will wick water into the jacket greatly increasing line losses. If you fail
to properly support the coax, step on it while installing (such that you get
a flat spot), or use a radius so tight it deforms the geometry between the
center conductor and shield you now have an impedance bump. If you are
changing out fuel lines and such, this is a good time to replace coax.
Internal runs of line will of course last much longer. Also the use of
crimp on BNC connectors or poorly done standard connectors has the potential
of turning even the most expensive coax into a marginal performer.
Carl Froehlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Lervold
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG400
> Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (systems install)
Why RG-400? Well here's what Bob Nuckolls has to say about it...
"I would recommend RG-400 as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses
silver-plated double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is
an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality. It uses
polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer allowed in certificated
aircraft."
The question really is "why would you use anything else?"
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, finishing wiring
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
Hello Bruce and all , Chris here , I started this most recent thread about
the HID lighting. I noticed in your reply that you stated the candlepower for
the PAR 36 & 46. I suspect these might be reversed values (misprint ?) , the
par 46 (being larger) is 600,000 CP right? Anyway , I noticed on Lopriesti's
web site (www.speedmods.com) that they have EITHER a spot or flood reflector
, whereas you are developing an adjustable one , this sounds great , are YOU
going to sell these and do you sell entire HID lighting kits with ballasts
etc ? Also , has anyone had problems with nav/comm interference ( RF & EM
noise )? What about price ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Heating Pads ? |
Hey, I was wrong about the power draws (doing it from memory). Mine are 4
amps at low power and 7.5 amps at high power per seat (each with it's own
control)............Norman...........
> Mine have two settings, high, low and off. The kit includes a very nice
> lighted switch. The high setting uses 4 amps (per seat) and each seat has
> it's own control. The high setting is great for the first ten minutes in
> normal cool temps but will eventually cook your butt if it is any warmer
> than -10 Celsius. The low setting is perfect for long term use even on
days
> up to +10 Celsius.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glastar Ground |
>Hi Bob,
>
>In building my Glastar with the batteries behind the seat, can I use the metal
cage in the star as a ground media?
>
>Leonard
Sure . . . it's been done for decades. You use the term
batteries . . . what is the ratinal for two batteries?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Carl,
>I'm planning to use RG-400 for my nav/com, transponder and gps antenna
>leads. What do you recommend?
>Al
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 4:54 PM
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RG400
>
>
>
>>
>> Send it back, it can not be used for any RF application.
>> Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (systems install)
>> Vienna, VA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al &
>> Deb Paxhia
>> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:46 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG400
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I just received an order of 50 ft of RG400 cable that came rolled and
>> kinked. The outside insulation is broken in several places. Does this
>affect
>> the electrical performance of the wire or can moisture get under the
>> shielding and cause a problem down the road.
>> Al, Super Rebel
>>
Al, I see that you purchased your RG-400 from B&C. I'd
appreciate it if you would return the wire directly to
me at 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS 67226-1008.
I'll get the wire replaced and also find out what happened
to it in terms of handling. I'll also re-emburse you for
shipping.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HID lighting |
>
>Hello Bob & all. I don't know if you've seen or heard of Roy LoPriesti's
>latest nifty product. He's now selling a high intesity discharge lighting
>system for aircraft, including experimentals. For those not familiar , these
>are the same "cool blue" looking lites seen on late model luxery /
>performance cars. J.C. Whitney even sells kits for after market upgrading of
>cars. These lites have the ultimate candlepower per amp draw. I really hated
>the current draw (20 amps total) I had decided on for my 130 watt (ea) H3
>landing and taxi lites. I never took it upon myself to consider putting one
>of these HID kits in my homebuilt because of concerns about potential radio
>noise. I assumed these lites essentially established an arc at the normal
>filament location. Do you have any thoughts on this Bob ?
Roy has been selling this product for several years now.
As landing and taxi lights go, they're awesome. Something
to consider is their color temperature. At something on the
order of 5000 degrees K, they're an almost exact match
to a clear sky. We installed this system on the AGATE
research Bonanza. Observers have told me that they
are practically useless for collision avoidance on a clear
day when the observer sees you against a clear sky.
Given that use of a landing light may be 95% recognition
and 5% for actual landing and taxi, you may wish to
consider the decision carefully. 20A current draw
might be a "downside" but how hard is it to GET 20A?
Compact and lightweight alternators chunk out this kind
of energy with ease. I'll suggest that power consumption
is a low order concern. Given their high price, one is
inclined to install only one where two lower cost
incandescent lamps might have been the alternative.
Further, two lamps on opposite wing tips COMBINED
with the cooler colored incandescent lamps make for
a low cost, effective anti-collision system with
the extra bonus of redundancy . . . loss of one
bulb will not have you landing in the dark.
Another reader asked about radio noise. Since the
system is offered by STC onto certified aircraft,
it's a fair bet that all of the system integrations
pitfalls, including radio interference, have been
bridged.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Switch Diode |
>
>Bob,
>I went to my local electronics' store to buy the diode for the S704-1 for
>the STec Starter. They cross-referenced your IN4005 part number and I ended
>up with a NTE116. Here are the specks:
>PRV-600V Max
>IFSM-30A Max
>IF-1A Max
>VF- 1.1V@1A
>
>Is this the right one?
>
>Ross
Any diode you can put your hands on will work find for
these applications. Radio Shack may have them for less
money. Those NTE series substitutes tend to be overpriced.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob,
>What was your source for the dimmer pot that you used in designing your
>dimmer? I just installed the dimmer and it worked great but the pot went
>south almost immediately. Still works, sort of: turn the pot, it clicks and
>the lights come on, turn it back, it clicks and the lights go off. This is
>tactile click, not audible. Anyway, do you have a Radio Shack part number
>for it, or any part number? Thanks!
>
Which style of pot did you receive . . a round metal
critter or a square blue plastic device? Shoot me
your mailing address and I'll send you a replacement
along with a return envelope. I'd like to get the failed
pot back for examination.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Yet another reason to pay attention to fuse/breaker |
selection (humor)
Subject: Darwin Award Nominees and Fuses
For those who don't know about it, the Darwin Awards are awarded every
year to the person(s)
who died in the stupidest way, thereby removing themselves from the gene
pool.
Check this pair of nominees out:
NOMINEE No. 8: [Reuters AND FINALLY: [Arkansas Democrat Gazette] Two
local men were seriously injured when their pickup truck left the road
and
struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday
morning.
Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after
midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc and Billy Ray Wallis, 38,
of
Little Rock are listed in serious condition at Baptist Medical Center.
The
accident occurred as the two men were returning to Des Arc after a
frog-gigging trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole's pick-up
truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight
fuse on the older model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was
not
available, Wallis noticed that the ..22 caliber bullet from his
pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column.
After
inserting the bullet, the headlights again began to operate properly
and the two men proceeded toward the White River bridge. After traveling
about 20 miles and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently
overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the right testicle. The
vehicle swerved sharply right exiting the pavement and striking a tree.
Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident, but will
require surgery to repair the other wound. Wallis sustained a broken
clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that
bridge when
Thurston shot his balls off or we might both be dead" stated Wallis.
"I've been a trooper for ten years in this part of the world, but this is
a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this
accident
happened," said Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia,
Poole's wife asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get
them from the truck. (Way to go, Lavinia).
Ulrich
CH801
(Just started wiring)
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re:RG400 available |
Listers:
I have some RG400 left over from my RV4. I think I paid 1.95 or 2.00Ft.
I'll let it go for a buck a foot to get it out of my shop. I think I've
got about 120ft. I always buy alot because everything I do takes two or
three times the material (due to my excellent workmanship and very high
quality control efforts of course). Let me know off of the list if you
would like to purchase the entire amount or just some of it. Do Not
Archive!
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
The cowling is interesting work!!!!
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> > Why did you get RG-400 anyway?
> >
> > Carl Froehlich
> > RV-8A (systems install)
>
> Why RG-400? Well here's what Bob Nuckolls has to say about it...
>
> "I would recommend RG-400 as the modern coaxial cable of choice. It uses
> silver-plated double shielding and modern insulations like tefzel. RG-58 is
> an obsolete specification and no longer controlled for quality. It uses
> polyethylene and PVC for insulation . . . no longer allowed in certificated
> aircraft."
>
> The question really is "why would you use anything else?"
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, #80500, finishing wiring
> www.rv-8.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Bob,
Would you comment on these two points from today's emails. I purchased
RG400 with crimp on connections from the B&C website.
Ross
> If you fail to seal the terminations, the coax will wick water into the
jacket greatly increasing line losses.
How do you seal the terminations?
> Also the use of crimp on BNC connectors or poorly done standard connectors
has the potential
> of turning even the most expensive coax into a marginal performer.
Should I return the crimp ons and get soldered ends?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "waterbirds.com" <bill(at)waterbirds.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Bob and his warranty |
To all:
Just want to inform everyone of the kind of guy you are dealing with. I
bought a simple rheostat fan switch from this guy Bob. What would you expect
from a small, one man, (backed by a woman of course) company?
My wiring efforts only managed to get the fan to operate at one speed.
After several attempts at phone help, Bob said he would look at it.
Well, what would you expect. The switch came back with the note that I had
overheated the contacts, bridged the wire pins, and had it wired wrong.
Other than that, I had no warranty claim.
Bob enclosed a new switch, with wires already soldered to it, notes on the
wires as to where it went, and an improved fuse connector already in the
circuit! I have been to his class, read the Aeroconn book and bought a few
things. But, never have I met a better man, a better attitude or a better
warranty.
I wanted to say thanks over the phone Bob, but also wanted everyone else
that you help to be forewarned about dealing with you.
Thanks for the service.
Bill Canino
Little Rock
A raving fan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Bob and his warranty |
Well done! It is nice to know that this kind of service still exists, way to go
Bob.
"waterbirds.com" wrote:
>
> To all:
>
> Just want to inform everyone of the kind of guy you are dealing with. I
> bought a simple rheostat fan switch from this guy Bob. What would you expect
> from a small, one man, (backed by a woman of course) company?
> My wiring efforts only managed to get the fan to operate at one speed.
> After several attempts at phone help, Bob said he would look at it.
>
> Well, what would you expect. The switch came back with the note that I had
> overheated the contacts, bridged the wire pins, and had it wired wrong.
> Other than that, I had no warranty claim.
>
> Bob enclosed a new switch, with wires already soldered to it, notes on the
> wires as to where it went, and an improved fuse connector already in the
> circuit! I have been to his class, read the Aeroconn book and bought a few
> things. But, never have I met a better man, a better attitude or a better
> warranty.
>
> I wanted to say thanks over the phone Bob, but also wanted everyone else
> that you help to be forewarned about dealing with you.
>
> Thanks for the service.
>
> Bill Canino
> Little Rock
> A raving fan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Bob and his warranty |
>
>
>To all:
>
>Just want to inform everyone of the kind of guy you are dealing with.
---------snip----------
>I wanted to say thanks over the phone Bob, but also wanted everyone else
>that you help to be forewarned about dealing with you.
>
>Thanks for the service.
>
>Bill Canino
>Little Rock
>A raving fan
Hi Bill -
Well said - I'd like to second that. It's a pleasure to do business
with Bob and Dee.
I've gotten a large part of my basic electricity/physics education
from reading the AeroElectric Connection. My system architecture,
crimp tools, and many a/c parts come from him.
Bill Mills (another raving fan)
AeroElectric subscriber/seminar attendee
RANS S-7/912 in progress
SF bay area Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob,
>
>Would you comment on these two points from today's emails. I purchased
>RG400 with crimp on connections from the B&C website.
>
>Ross
>
>> If you fail to seal the terminations, the coax will wick water into the
>jacket greatly increasing line losses.
>
>How do you seal the terminations?
Not necessary. The properly installed connector of
any type is sufficient "sealing"
>> Also the use of crimp on BNC connectors or poorly done standard connectors
>has the potential
>> of turning even the most expensive coax into a marginal performer.
>
>Should I return the crimp ons and get soldered ends?
Please don't . . . the crimp connector is much superior
to soldered ones in terms of ease of installation. I threw
out about 50 solder-on connectors a few years ago when I
bought my first coax crimp tool and the stocking order of
connectors.
What you have is just fine. I'm looking into the problem
one gentleman had with damaged wire.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | ELT antenna installed inside composite fuselage |
I have an Ameri-King ELT and 7/8ths of a Glastar. Can
I install the ELT antenna on the inside of the
composite fuselage? It's billed as a no-drag antenna
but I'm not convinced.
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> |
Can anyone tell me if you can use an AC rated switch for DC applications?
I see lots of nice switches at 10A for 125VAC; can it be converted to DC or
do I need to look at different switches?
Thanks!
Wayne Williams
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: switch ratings |
>
>Can anyone tell me if you can use an AC rated switch for DC applications?
>I see lots of nice switches at 10A for 125VAC; can it be converted to DC or
>do I need to look at different switches?
>Thanks!
>
>Wayne Williams
>RV-8A
See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: switch ratings |
In a message dated 2/27/01 6:53:42 AM, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf >>
if one does not have Acrobat and just wants to view the page at it's location
is there another web site?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar and Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
In a message dated 2/20/01 7:02:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alexpeterson(at)usjet.net writes:
<< Does anyone out there have the temperature sensing Lasar system and the RMI
Micromonitor? I have a two-in-one probe from Unison for plugging into the
CHT fitting on the cylinder . This probe has four wires - two from a
thermistor which tell the Lasar what the CHT is doing and two thermocouple
wires. The problem is that the thermocouple is not of the grounded variety,
which most are. Ron M. told me to try it, and maybe add a resistor to that
probe if it misbehaves, but he wasn't really sure if it would work.
Anyone run into this?
Alex Peterson >>
Alex, did you ever receive any responses to this post? I have the same set up
and about to complete CHT & EGT circuits. Would appreciate any input.
Dale Ensing RV-6A wiring...still
Aero Plantation NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar and Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
@usjet.net writes:
>
> << Does anyone out there have the temperature sensing Lasar system and the
RMI
> Micromonitor? I have a two-in-one probe from Unison for plugging into
the
> CHT fitting on the cylinder . This probe has four wires - two from a
> thermistor which tell the Lasar what the CHT is doing and two
thermocouple
> wires. The problem is that the thermocouple is not of the grounded
variety,
> which most are. Ron M. told me to try it, and maybe add a resistor to
that
> probe if it misbehaves, but he wasn't really sure if it would work.
>
> Anyone run into this?
>
> Alex Peterson >>
>
> Alex, did you ever receive any responses to this post? I have the same set
up
> and about to complete CHT & EGT circuits. Would appreciate any input.
> Dale Ensing RV-6A wiring...still
> Aero Plantation NC
Dale, not a word. Ron Mowrer replied: Sure, try the TC as is first. If
you need to, a 100 ohm resistor to ground would work.
I'll know in a few months.
Alex
------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"12v Dry Cells..." (Feb 23, 4:38pm)
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
Hum, a couple of people pointed out that I was asleep when I posted
this and forgot to include the URL. Here's the URL for real this
time... ;-)
http://www.performancedistributors.com/batteries.htm
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
>--------------
>Hi Listers,
>
>This might have been discussed already, but a friend of mine passed the
>URL below on to me today and it seemed like something that might be
>handy for saving a few lbs in a plane. Anyone tried these drycells in
>an aircraft enviroment?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
>
>
>Hum, a couple of people pointed out that I was asleep when I posted
>this and forgot to include the URL. Here's the URL for real this
>time... ;-)
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
The 12v battery pictured is almost certainly a recombinant
gas, lead-acid battery. It is "dry" only to the extent that
if opened up, no liquid will escape. None-the-less, it's
size and appearance are nearly identical to the Yuasa, Powersonic,
Panasonic, and Hawker batteries rated at 17-18 a.h. and
weigh in at 13-15 pounds.
The price they're asking for this thing from the website
is astonishing . . . you can get this style of battery
in all the brands above for $60-75 at storefront
battery marts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3-14 Regulator |
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Dear Bob,
>
> Funny experience -- about a month ago I ordered one of B&C's LR3-14
>regulators from Lancair. The rest of that order came, but the regulator was
>back-ordered. I talked to Vern Pifer (parts mgr.) there today, and he says
>that they are now going to drop the LR3 and sell something else by a company
>I've not heard of, maybe Zeftronics? When I asked why, he gave me a less
>than satisfactory answer, something about them having trouble on the IV's
>and IV-P's with static charges causing the regulator to blow breakers.
>
> What's the deal on this? You've had this regulator on the market for a
>good while, and so far as I know, Lancair were high on it until just
>recently. I'd be interested in your reaction to all this; I can always
>order the LR3 straight from B&C or from ACS.
Funny you should mention this. I've just finished sorting
out the same kind of a problem that cropped up on one of the
LR-3's cousins presently being installed on the Bonanza's
standby alternator system.
I had some conversation about the problem in some Lancairs
about 6-9 months ago but was never able to put my hands
on an airplane to search out the cause. We also had a rash
of complaints from some Glasair owners . . . again, VERY
difficult to troubleshoot from 1000 miles away.
After 150 or so had been installed on new Bonanzas, we
got three airplanes in a row that would trip the OV protection
circuit when a high current load was switched on. Landing
light, landing gear, air-conditioner blower, etc.
I WAS able to get on these airplanes and determined that
switch bounce and high inrush currents were combining to
generate a signal antagonistic to a few of the
regulators.
We've modified the regulators to compensate for this
sensitivity. B&C delivered their first batch of modified
regulators to the factory this morning. The same modifications
will be incorporated throughout the B&C regulator product
line.
I'm guessing now but I believe that the high dollar
airplane builders tend to use high-dollar switches with
really FAT, HEAVY DUTY contacts. While very robust,
these may bounce worse than the garden variety switches
used by the majority of our builders. Hence the problems
were concentrated in a very few airplanes.
I'll forward a copy of this to B&C . . . they'll want
to update Lancair on our discovery and resolution. Thanks
for asking.
Yes, you can order your LR-3 directly from B&C at their
catalog hosted on our website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
Listers:
If your looking for a great little battery, gas recombinant type look at
https://www.westcobattery.com/harleydavidson.htm
The item I purchased is the 12V22 (y50-N18L) This battery is
8.15"LX3.5"WX6.4"H. It is rated at 22AH and 350 CCA. The cost is a
reasonable 74.95 including shipping. Don't spend over $80 for a
battery. Bob is 100% right on as usual.
Dave Aronson
N504RV RV4
Cowling in progress (I HATE GLASS)
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >Hum, a couple of people pointed out that I was asleep when I posted
> >this and forgot to include the URL. Here's the URL for real this
> >time... ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Matt Dralle
>
> The 12v battery pictured is almost certainly a recombinant
> gas, lead-acid battery. It is "dry" only to the extent that
> if opened up, no liquid will escape. None-the-less, it's
> size and appearance are nearly identical to the Yuasa, Powersonic,
> Panasonic, and Hawker batteries rated at 17-18 a.h. and
> weigh in at 13-15 pounds.
>
> The price they're asking for this thing from the website
> is astonishing . . . you can get this style of battery
> in all the brands above for $60-75 at storefront
> battery marts.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: switch ratings |
>
>
>In a message dated 2/27/01 6:53:42 AM, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
><< http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf >>
>
>if one does not have Acrobat and just wants to view the page at it's location
>is there another web site?
Why don't you have Acrobat Reader? It's FREE. Further, the
.pdf format for information transfer has become a worldwide
standard . . . 99% of the data I download from manufacturers
comes in this format . . . hence my reason for getting on the
.pdf bandwagon with everybody else. Please accept my enthusiastic
invitation to join us by clicking on:
ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/acrobatreader/win/4.x/ar405eng.exe
It's a fairly big file . . . about 5mB. If you don't have
access to a fairly fast download (33Kbits/sec or better)
then drop me your address and I'll send it to you on CD ROM.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 02/27/01 |
Hi, Bob:
Am I likely to become one of those "Glasair Folks" who have trouble with the
LR-3?
I've had mine sitting in a box for quite a while, and since it won't have
been modified, I am wondering if I should try to return/exchange it. I
shouldn't have any big-time heavy load-switching, other than a landing
light, since I have fixed gear, no air-conditioning, etc. on my simple fixed
trike version but you've got me a little concerned. I planned on using some
simple little 125V rocker switches in my installation, but maybe I should
switch to one of your toggles for the landing light...
Actually, any time you seem concerned, it is time for ME to get concerned!
Any program planned at B&C for an exchange on unused units?
Thanks,
Ron Cox
Glasair Super II F/T under construction
> >Dear Bob,
> >
> > Funny experience -- about a month ago I ordered one of B&C's LR3-14
> >regulators from Lancair. The rest of that order came, but the regulator
was
> >back-ordered. I talked to Vern Pifer (parts mgr.) there today, and he
says
> >that they are now going to drop the LR3 and sell something else by a
company
> >I've not heard of, maybe Zeftronics? When I asked why, he gave me a less
> >than satisfactory answer, something about them having trouble on the IV's
> >and IV-P's with static charges causing the regulator to blow breakers.
> >
> > What's the deal on this? You've had this regulator on the market for
a
> >good while, and so far as I know, Lancair were high on it until just
> >recently. I'd be interested in your reaction to all this; I can always
> >order the LR3 straight from B&C or from ACS.
>
> Funny you should mention this. I've just finished sorting
> out the same kind of a problem that cropped up on one of the
> LR-3's cousins presently being installed on the Bonanza's
> standby alternator system.
>
> I had some conversation about the problem in some Lancairs
> about 6-9 months ago but was never able to put my hands
> on an airplane to search out the cause. We also had a rash
> of complaints from some Glasair owners . . . again, VERY
> difficult to troubleshoot from 1000 miles away.
>
> After 150 or so had been installed on new Bonanzas, we
> got three airplanes in a row that would trip the OV protection
> circuit when a high current load was switched on. Landing
> light, landing gear, air-conditioner blower, etc.
>
> I WAS able to get on these airplanes and determined that
> switch bounce and high inrush currents were combining to
> generate a signal antagonistic to a few of the
> regulators.
>
> We've modified the regulators to compensate for this
> sensitivity. B&C delivered their first batch of modified
> regulators to the factory this morning. The same modifications
> will be incorporated throughout the B&C regulator product
> line.
>
> I'm guessing now but I believe that the high dollar
> airplane builders tend to use high-dollar switches with
> really FAT, HEAVY DUTY contacts. While very robust,
> these may bounce worse than the garden variety switches
> used by the majority of our builders. Hence the problems
> were concentrated in a very few airplanes.
>
> I'll forward a copy of this to B&C . . . they'll want
> to update Lancair on our discovery and resolution. Thanks
> for asking.
>
> Yes, you can order your LR-3 directly from B&C at their
> catalog hosted on our website at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lonnie Wood" <lonnwood(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
I bought a 17-18 ah Panasonic RG from Digi-key. It was in the $42 range.
Lonnie Wood
> Listers:
> If your looking for a great little battery, gas recombinant type look at
> https://www.westcobattery.com/harleydavidson.htm
> The item I purchased is the 12V22 (y50-N18L) This battery is
> 8.15"LX3.5"WX6.4"H. It is rated at 22AH and 350 CCA. The cost is a
> reasonable 74.95 including shipping. Don't spend over $80 for a
> battery. Bob is 100% right on as usual.
> Dave Aronson
> N504RV RV4
> Cowling in progress (I HATE GLASS)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Nuisance trips in B&C LR-3 Regulators. |
>
>Hi, Bob:
>
>Am I likely to become one of those "Glasair Folks" who have trouble with the
>LR-3?
The phenomenon wasn't common. There are several thousands of
these critters installed and performing as intended.
>I've had mine sitting in a box for quite a while, and since it won't have
>been modified, I am wondering if I should try to return/exchange it. I
>shouldn't have any big-time heavy load-switching, other than a landing
>light, since I have fixed gear, no air-conditioning, etc. on my simple fixed
>trike version but you've got me a little concerned. I planned on using some
>simple little 125V rocker switches in my installation, but maybe I should
>switch to one of your toggles for the landing light...
>
>Actually, any time you seem concerned, it is time for ME to get concerned!
>
>
>Any program planned at B&C for an exchange on unused units?
If you DO have a problem, B&C will most certainly make
the necessary modifications to your regulator to take
care of the problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | ELT antenna installed inside composite fuselage |
>
>I have an Ameri-King ELT and 7/8ths of a Glastar. Can
>I install the ELT antenna on the inside of the
>composite fuselage? It's billed as a no-drag antenna
>but I'm not convinced.
The practical perspective:
Given that ELTs for a VERY tiny percentage
of saves when an aircraft goes down, your risks
are not markedly increased for having a
poorly performing ELT antenna. It's much
more practical to ASSUME that your ELT will not play
a useful role should you make an unplanned arrival with
the dirt. Have your own plan. Carry a handheld
that can speak on 121.5, a cell-phone MIGHT be useful
too.
The technical perspective:
Antennas INSIDE a composite (fiberglas) structure can
be effective but they tend to become compromised by
local conductors . . . wiring, structure and control
cables. The BEST performing antennas will be outside
and over a good ground plane. The antennas upon which
I depend the most, I'd put outside. The ELT, I'd put
inside just to satisfy the requirement for having one
and not loose any sleep over its potential performance.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Hi Folks,
>I'm new here and am here because I know from nothing about electronics. Just
>bought Bob's book and am wearing my way into it. Question. I'm building an
>RV-9A and putting an Lyc 0-320 on it. I just ordered an alternator kit from
>Niagara with the built in regulator. Bob's statement was "all built in
>regulators are switchers." What does that mean? Do I need additional
>protection from over voltage? In the diagram shown in his book (figure
>3-3.). Bob shows an over voltage relay and a voltage regulator. I thought
>one of the primary functions of a voltage regulator was to provide over
>voltage protection for the battery. Appreciate any help here.
Found some misfiled messages in a too-do list that I took
with me on a trip. It appears that this one didn't get answered.
A "switching" regulator has but two states . . . on and off; like
the light switch on your wall. You COULD control the light's intensity
by turning the switch on and off very rapidly and controlling the
ratio of on-time versus off-time. If the switch were ON for say 1/10
of the total time, the lamp's output would be quite dim. On the other
hand a "linear" regulator is like a water faucet . . . it will set
the flow of current based on the resistance of a controlling device
and simply hold it there until the need to change it comes along.
Both styles of regulator do a good job of holding your bus voltage
steady. We developed the linear series regulators back when the
majority of our customers were building composite aircraft and still
installing a lot of Loran and ADF receivers. These low frequency
systems were more vulnerable to interference of the type generated
by switching regulators. Given that these systems are becoming rare,
the value of going to a linear regulator is somewhat diminished with
respect to potential noise problems in the airplane.
BOTH styles of regulator have over-voltage failure modes
that dictate the need for effective ov protection.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fig. Z-14, Sky-tek starter |
>
>Bob,
>
>1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have changed the wiring for the
>sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall some discussion of this on
>the rv-list but could you please review the issues and reasons?
>
>2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov disconnect contactor. Why is
>this needed?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stan Blanton
>RV-6
Found this message languishing on my travel computer . . . I downloaded
it on a trip and didn't follow up on it when I got home.
The Sky-Tec starters have PM motors in them. The motors
act as generators during the spin-down after you release
the starter button. This momentary source of power keeps
the pinion gear solenoid energized for several seconds after
the engine starts. Adding the relay as shown takes care of this
problem. This is necessary ONLY for starters using the PM
motor. None of the B&C starters should be wired this way.
An alternator disconnect contactor is needed ONLY if you plan
to use an alternator with a built in regulator.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Too many shields, too few pins . . . |
>Hi Bob,
>Good morning! Yes, after I read my post it was confusing. My problem is I
>have too many wires for too few places. For instance, there are three
>aircraft ground positions on the monitor (1, 17&18) but 21 shields for those
>three spots plus the airframe ground. There are 8 signal grounds for one
>spot (#14). My thinking is to put a wire in 1, 17, 18 and 14 with a ring
>terminal on the end. Then ring terminals on the other wires and bolt them
>together. Naturally to the correct spot. Cover with heat shrink tubing. As
>you can see my electrical mind is dangerous. Will a #18 do at the monitor
>side?
I get this question several imes a month. There's a relatively painless
way to handle the termination f multiple shield grounds into a few pins
of a connector. I went to the workbench with my camera and produced the
following addition to Bob's Shop Notes:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
This comic book isn't indexed on any other pages on our website
so for the next few days, the only way you'll find it is by clicking
the link above. I'll catch up on my homework for the rest of this
new article pretty soon.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too many shields, too few pins . . . |
>I get this question several imes a month. There's a relatively painless
>way to handle the termination f multiple shield grounds into a few pins
>of a connector. I went to the workbench with my camera and produced the
>following addition to Bob's Shop Notes:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
>
>This comic book isn't indexed on any other pages on our website
>so for the next few days, the only way you'll find it is by clicking
>the link above. I'll catch up on my homework for the rest of this
>new article pretty soon.
Bravo! Nice little tutorial on a subject I see butchered often in the field!
Where can I get those Raychem terminations? My local electronics
distributor doesn't carry the Raychem line. And by expensive did you mean
$1 ea? $5 ea? or like Military cost over run expensive?
--Bob Steward A&P IA
Birmingham, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too many shields, too few pins . . . |
>
>
>>I get this question several imes a month. There's a relatively painless
>>way to handle the termination f multiple shield grounds into a few pins
>>of a connector. I went to the workbench with my camera and produced the
>>following addition to Bob's Shop Notes:
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
>>
>>This comic book isn't indexed on any other pages on our website
>>so for the next few days, the only way you'll find it is by clicking
>>the link above. I'll catch up on my homework for the rest of this
>>new article pretty soon.
>
>Bravo! Nice little tutorial on a subject I see butchered often in the field!
>
>Where can I get those Raychem terminations? My local electronics
>distributor doesn't carry the Raychem line. And by expensive did you mean
>$1 ea? $5 ea? or like Military cost over run expensive?
>
>--Bob Steward A&P IA
>Birmingham, AL
Download these documents from Raychem's website which are
selection guide, data sheet and installation guide for this
genre of products.
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54683.pdf
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54681.pdf
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54682.pdf
then click on this link to find a distributor near you:
http://interconnect.raychem.com/indexf.html
Hold onto your wallet when you call them . . . I just bought
a box of 100 SO96-2-55-22-90 soldersleeves for $120.00
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too many shields, too few pins . . . |
> >Where can I get those Raychem terminations? My local electronics
> >distributor doesn't carry the Raychem line. And by expensive did you
mean
> >$1 ea? $5 ea? or like Military cost over run expensive?
Terminal Town has them... http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page73.html
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
I had a good conversation with a guy at Westco. He said that they don't
usually sell the Harley battery to the experimental aircraft crowd but do
sell a lot of their BMW batteries for this application. What is the
difference? The main difference is that the BMW is a deep cycle battery
whereas the Harley is a "starting" battery. The Harley battery will
withstand maybe 10 drains and recharges whereas the BMW will withstand 300.
(these are the numbers he gave me...may be a bit exaggerated!!) Another
difference is the terminals. The BMW 12V20P (and its sister 12V17AP that is
not on the website but is the one preferred by experimental aircraft buyers
and occupies the same case) have a M5 nut and bolt whereas the Harley
battery has the motorcycle terminal. . The Harley 18 amp is rated at 300
CCA the BMW 17 amp is rated at 250 CCA and the BMW 20 amp at 275 CCA. The
price between these two is similar at around $90. Dave got the larger,
heavier 22 amp for cheaper....another supply and demand thing.
Ross
> If your looking for a great little battery, gas recombinant type look at
> https://www.westcobattery.com/harleydavidson.htm
> The item I purchased is the 12V22 (y50-N18L) This battery is
> 8.15"LX3.5"WX6.4"H. It is rated at 22AH and 350 CCA. The cost is a
> reasonable 74.95 including shipping. Don't spend over $80 for a
> battery. Bob is 100% right on as usual.
> Dave Aronson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
>
>I had a good conversation with a guy at Westco. He said that they don't
>usually sell the Harley battery to the experimental aircraft crowd but do
>sell a lot of their BMW batteries for this application. What is the
>difference? The main difference is that the BMW is a deep cycle battery
>whereas the Harley is a "starting" battery. The Harley battery will
>withstand maybe 10 drains and recharges whereas the BMW will withstand 300.
>(these are the numbers he gave me...may be a bit exaggerated!!) Another
>difference is the terminals. The BMW 12V20P (and its sister 12V17AP that is
>not on the website but is the one preferred by experimental aircraft buyers
>and occupies the same case) have a M5 nut and bolt whereas the Harley
>battery has the motorcycle terminal. . The Harley 18 amp is rated at 300
>CCA the BMW 17 amp is rated at 250 CCA and the BMW 20 amp at 275 CCA. The
>price between these two is similar at around $90. Dave got the larger,
>heavier 22 amp for cheaper....another supply and demand thing.
>
>Ross
I don't think either BMW or Harley makes batteries. The 12V20p and 12V17p and
their close cousins can be found at:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-x1220p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf
>> If your looking for a great little battery, gas recombinant type look at
>> https://www.westcobattery.com/harleydavidson.htm
>> The item I purchased is the 12V22 (y50-N18L) This battery is
>> 8.15"LX3.5"WX6.4"H. It is rated at 22AH and 350 CCA. The cost is a
>> reasonable 74.95 including shipping. Don't spend over $80 for a
>> battery. Bob is 100% right on as usual.
>> Dave Aronson
the y50-N18 shows up on web-searches as a "Yumicron" brand. One of the
places I found them was:
http://www.onoffroad.com/batteries.html
I think the dealer's labeling of "deep cycle" versus "starting"
battery may be mis-informed. There is no real market for "deep cycle"
batteries of this size. The #1 market is un-interruptable power supplies
like computer backup and emergency lighting. These are applications where
the battery sets for YEARS on float charge waiting to be called to service
when the power fails. The next biggest application would be motor starting
like motorcycles, jet-skis, snowmobiles, etc. A 17 a.h., 12 battery just doesn't
hold enough watt-hours of energy to find its way into multiple-cycle, deep
discharge. You get into RVs, forklifts and golf carts with 100 a.h. batteries
or bigger before it's beneficial to service a market with thick plate, deep
cycle products.
That doesn't mean there aren't any deep-cycle products out there. Even
the Hawker folks (used to be Gates) have told me on occasion that their
plates are "thicker than brand P or brand Y and therefore better in
deep cycle applications." When asked if they recommend their battery
for deep-cycle, the answer is still "no, it's not optimized for deep
cycle service."
Just about EVERY battery detailed battery spec I've seen in this
genre of battery (17-20 a.h., 6.5 x 3 x 7 inches) has a published
life of 70-150 deep cycles to take it down to 80% of capacity. The
battery industry has adopted the number of 80% as being end-of-life
for a re-chargeable battery. Still crank your engine? Sure, very
well. Run all of your essential bus for duration of fuel aboard?
It should. I try to size the essential bus for for 50% of capacity
as end of battery life. How much will it have at the end of a year
if it hasn't suffered numerous deep discharges? Probably much better
than 80%.
How does all this affect airplane service? In my airplane, not a whit.
If I fly cross-country, nights, or IFR I'm going to throw a new
one in every year no matter what the spec sheets say. I plan to
depend on what ever battery I select to BE THERE when I need it.
With the yearly change out philosophy, the competitive advantages
between brands are minimized. Bottom line is that the least
expensive battery you can find that fits the battery mounting
location and has nice fat tabs that support your terminal bolts
will probably do just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | JRC - Japan Radio Co. |
Has anyone an informed opinion on the JRC handheld radios? I was looking at
them because of their dual freq monitoring ability. The avionics salesman
said they have been big in the marine market and have started selling to the
aviation market now. Kevin Lane n3773
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12v Dry Cells... |
> I don't think either BMW or Harley makes batteries. The 12V20p and 12V17p
and
> their close cousins can be found at:
I didn't mean to imply that they did. I was refering to the Westco brand of
battery for application in BMW's and Harleys. I was speaking to a
representative of Westco. I think they manufactture there own batteries.
see https://www.westcobattery.com/harleydavidson.htm
> I think the dealer's labeling of "deep cycle" versus "starting"
> battery may be mis-informed.
It sounded odd but this guy represents the factory.
> Bottom line is that the least expensive battery you can find that fits the
battery mounting
> location and has nice fat tabs that support your terminal bolts will
probably do just fine.
I have come to the same conclusion after looking at many websites and
reading spec sheets. The other consideration is weight vs. price. It seems
some of the larger and heavier (22 AH) batteries are cheaper than the
smaller, lighter (16AH) ones. This is a case of buying a weight savings.
This is a weight/AH comparison I did on the Hawker line of batteries
(Odyssey and Genesis) last September
Weight differences:
5 amp 4.25 lb 1.17 amps/lb
7.2 amp 5.45 lbs 1.32 amps/lb
10 amp 7.85 lbs 1.27 amps/lb
12 amp 8.41 lbs 1.42 amps/lb
17 amp 14.3 lbs 1.18 amps/lb
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fig. Z-14, Sky-tek starter |
Bob:
I've followed the postings and understand
(sorta...)the reasons for replacing the standard
starter contactor w/ the S704-1 relay when installing
a PM starter. Why not for other starters? The relay
is lighter. Must be some reason.
Mike
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> Nuckolls, III"
>
> Blanton"
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >1. On your revised (10-28-00) fig. Z-14 you have
> changed the wiring for the
> >sky-tec starter and starter contactor. I recall
> some discussion of this on
> >the rv-list but could you please review the issues
> and reasons?
> >
> >2. On the same dwg. you have an altrnator ov
> disconnect contactor. Why is
> >this needed?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Stan Blanton
> >RV-6
>
> Found this message languishing on my travel computer
> . . . I downloaded
> it on a trip and didn't follow up on it when I got
> home.
>
> The Sky-Tec starters have PM motors in them. The
> motors
> act as generators during the spin-down after you
> release
> the starter button. This momentary source of power
> keeps
> the pinion gear solenoid energized for several
> seconds after
> the engine starts. Adding the relay as shown takes
> care of this
> problem. This is necessary ONLY for starters using
> the PM
> motor. None of the B&C starters should be wired this
> way.
>
> An alternator disconnect contactor is needed ONLY if
> you plan
> to use an alternator with a built in regulator.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than
> knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives
> formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein
> )
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
> and through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JRC - Japan Radio Co. |
>Has anyone an informed opinion on the JRC handheld radios? I was looking at
>them because of their dual freq monitoring ability. The avionics salesman
>said they have been big in the marine market and have started selling to the
>aviation market now. Kevin Lane n3773
Kevin and all -
I have no informed opinion on the JRC but on this same topic, I hear
that the DelCom AIR 960 will be available again. Aircraft Spruce says
they will be available at the end of March. DelCom had stopped
production on the AIR 960 but it looks like they're back.
See:
http://www.delc.com/index.htm
As all the contols are on top, this one can be mounted in the panel
which would fit my narrow panel. If anyone has any experience with
the AIR 960 do tell please.
BTW, the JRC sounds like a very good product but I'd also like more info.
Please report back on your findings.
All the best -
Bill
RANS S-7/912 in progress
SF bay area, Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JRC - Japan Radio Co. |
Avionics West has a review on the JRC.
William Mills wrote:
>
> >Has anyone an informed opinion on the JRC handheld radios? I was looking at
> >them because of their dual freq monitoring ability. The avionics salesman
> >said they have been big in the marine market and have started selling to the
> >aviation market now. Kevin Lane n3773
>
> Kevin and all -
>
> I have no informed opinion on the JRC but on this same topic, I hear
> that the DelCom AIR 960 will be available again. Aircraft Spruce says
> they will be available at the end of March. DelCom had stopped
> production on the AIR 960 but it looks like they're back.
> See:
> http://www.delc.com/index.htm
> As all the contols are on top, this one can be mounted in the panel
> which would fit my narrow panel. If anyone has any experience with
> the AIR 960 do tell please.
>
> BTW, the JRC sounds like a very good product but I'd also like more info.
> Please report back on your findings.
>
> All the best -
> Bill
> RANS S-7/912 in progress
> SF bay area, Calif.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fig. Z-14, Sky-tek starter |
> I've followed the postings and understand
> (sorta...)the reasons for replacing the standard
> starter contactor w/ the S704-1 relay when installing
> a PM starter. Why not for other starters? The relay
> is lighter. Must be some reason.
>
> Mike
You can find an article Bob wrote on the characteristics
of modern starter solenoids and contactors at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Decker <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob:
I am designing my electrical system very similar to Z-1 with the exception
of the essential bus and a keyed starter. My new Lycoming engine came
with an SkyTec starter so I assume I'll need to use a relay as shown in
Z-14. Does this mean I don't need a starter contactor? Does this relay
replace the contactor or is it additional to it? Thanks
Matt
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna installed inside composite fuselage |
Sorry for not responding sooner, but my local ISP got sold and my new one is giving
me fits. A bit more about my ELT insatllation. The ELT transmitter and
antenna are both mounted to the wing end-rib. So, if the wing is sheared off
the plane, that's OK. As long as the tip isn't destroyed, the ELT will work.
I think it has a fair chance of surviving an impact. As far as antenna performance,
I know it is a good spot. It's a trade off of antenna performance versus
crash survivability. The more crash-worthy installations have poor antenna
performance. I think Van's installation in the empennage and the common variations
of putting the antenna in the baggage compartment probably (I haven't tested
it) severly compromise antenna function. Antennas don't like to be near
large conductors aside from their own ground plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JRC - Japan Radio Co. |
I have one & like it. Volume is not real loud & last I looked they didn't
have the inflight 12V adapter ready, But I'd still get it again.
...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: JRC - Japan Radio Co.
>
> >Has anyone an informed opinion on the JRC handheld radios? I was looking
at
> >them because of their dual freq monitoring ability. The avionics
salesman
> >said they have been big in the marine market and have started selling to
the
> >aviation market now. Kevin Lane n3773
>
> Kevin and all -
>
> I have no informed opinion on the JRC but on this same topic, I hear
> that the DelCom AIR 960 will be available again. Aircraft Spruce says
> they will be available at the end of March. DelCom had stopped
> production on the AIR 960 but it looks like they're back.
> See:
> http://www.delc.com/index.htm
> As all the contols are on top, this one can be mounted in the panel
> which would fit my narrow panel. If anyone has any experience with
> the AIR 960 do tell please.
>
> BTW, the JRC sounds like a very good product but I'd also like more info.
> Please report back on your findings.
>
> All the best -
> Bill
> RANS S-7/912 in progress
> SF bay area, Calif.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
I've followed the postings and understand
(sorta...)the reasons for replacing the standard
starter contactor w/ the S704-1 relay when installing
a PM starter. Why not for other starters? The relay
is lighter. Must be some reason.
Mike
There is an article I published some time back that
describes essential characteristics of modern starter
engagement solenoid/contactor combinations. This piece
describes the two-stage engagement philosophy that achieves
a useful compromise between force needed for rapid and
positive engagement and the force needed to maintain
engagement once the mechanism reaches full stroke. You
can download this work at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
The BIG downside of this technology is the very high
inrush current that eats up starter switches. Further,
engagement efficiency is degraded if if one doesn't
provide a very low resistance pathway to the battery
through the starter switch.
Since Day-One, B&C has recommended use of a separate
starter contactor. The starter solenoid's supply lead
is simply tied together with the main starter feedline.
Now, the starter switch need only handle the 5A or so
needed to control the starter contactor and it never
sees the high inrush current draw of the starter engagement
solenoid. Our S702-1 starter contactor has a built-in
arc-suppression diode . . . a big help for increasing
service life of the starter switch.
I am designing my electrical system very similar to Z-1 with the exception
of the essential bus and a keyed starter. My new Lycoming engine came
with an SkyTec starter so I assume I'll need to use a relay as shown in
Z-14. Does this mean I don't need a starter contactor? Does this relay
replace the contactor or is it additional to it? Thanks
Matt
A problem arises when the starter utilizes a permanent
magnet motor. These motors are also efficient generators
During spin-down of the motor after the starter
is de-energized, the motor puts out a substantial amount
of power sufficient to KEEP the pinion gear solenoid
ENGAGED for several seconds after you release the pushbutton.
The technique described in our wiring diagrams was
developed as a compromise between maintaining good
starter solenoid/contactor performance with a variety
of starter switches.
Problems with the philosophy didn't arise until the
permanent magnet motor showed up. Again, we sought
a solution that maintained performance of the starter's
built in solenoid/contactor system that did not
transfer the system's unique loads to the circuitry
that controls the starter. Hence, the "boost" relay
described in Figure Z-14.
One COULD choose to use the boost relay with ANY
of the modern, lightweight starters that feature
electro-mechanically engaged pinion gears. This
would move the ideal alternator b-lead feedpoint
from a contactor on the firewall down to the
main power terminal of the starter solenoid/
contactor assembly.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
>Hi Bob, thanks for making the Wirebook.exe available on the net. I ran
>it and everything unzipped except for the wirebook.dwg. Has anyone else
>had that problem. I would like to use it as a starting point if you
>have a copy of it and don't mind sending it via e-mail. I am building a
>Murphy Rebel and am just starting the wiring portion.
>--
>Best Regards,
>
>Scott Hibbs
>hibbs(at)pacifier.com
I think wirebook.dwg was removed from that suite of
drawings and replaced by the big drawing found in
seminar.exe . . . the OTHER self-extracting .zip file.
I'm glad you reminded me about those files. I need to
combine and update them. I'll try to do that this weekend.
In the mean time, get seminar.exe for the seedling
wirebook drawing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | : Fuse link larger than 22 AWG |
Bob,
I want to construct the 20 AWG fusible link protecting
the 14 AWG wire from the battery contactor to the
e-buss switch shown in Z-1. I've purchased and
received your fuse link kit and downloaded the
instructions from your web site.
Questions:
The web site instructional pictorial says for 22 & 24
fuse links only. What do I do?
Also, why a 20 gauge and not an 18 gauge for the
application in question? I thought the rule was to
protect a wire w/ a link 4 gauges smaller.
Thanks for the help.
Mike
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.exe |
>hi Bob
>
>I saw on the net that you make your wirebook.exe available on the net. Wher can
we find it?
>
>Regards
>
>Daniel
Check out:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
Read the description before downloading. These files contain
drawing copies of many of my published drawings in AutoCAD
which you are free to use as you see fit.
If you have AutoCAD or a drafting program that speaks the
.dwg format, these files can save you a BUNCH of hours in
the development of a very professional document describing
the wiring for your airplane.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse link larger than 22 AWG |
>
>Bob,
>
>I want to construct the 20 AWG fusible link protecting
>the 14 AWG wire from the battery contactor to the
>e-buss switch shown in Z-1. I've purchased and
>received your fuse link kit and downloaded the
>instructions from your web site.
>
>Questions:
>
>The web site instructional pictorial says for 22 & 24
>fuse links only. What do I do?
>
>Also, why a 20 gauge and not an 18 gauge for the
>application in question? I thought the rule was to
>protect a wire w/ a link 4 gauges smaller.
AT LEAST 4AWG steps smaller. I used 14AWG for the
e-bus feed to cover cases where the battery is in the
tail of a two-seat tandem aircraft to minimize voltage
drop. The e-bus alternate feed should still be generally
limited to 3-5 amps continuous load during battery only
operations.
With a less-than-year-old 17 a.h. RG battery, I'd
like to fly for duration of fuel aboard with only the
e-bus "get-me-to-intended-destination" loads running
and hopefully still have a bit left over for landing
light.
Soooo . . . a 22AWG fuse link is entirely appropriate
for this application . . . and in fact, 10A continuous
warms up a 22AWG wire but doesn't even come close to
smoking it. If you truly NEED bigger than 22AWG in
a fusible link situation, we need to evaluate your
design philosophy for hidden hazards.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob,
Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
Charlie
------------------------------------
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wirebook.dwg
>
>
>
> >Hi Bob, thanks for making the Wirebook.exe available on the net. I ran
> >it and everything unzipped except for the wirebook.dwg. Has anyone else
> >had that problem. I would like to use it as a starting point if you
> >have a copy of it and don't mind sending it via e-mail. I am building a
> >Murphy Rebel and am just starting the wiring portion.
> >--
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Scott Hibbs
> >hibbs(at)pacifier.com
>
>
> I think wirebook.dwg was removed from that suite of
> drawings and replaced by the big drawing found in
> seminar.exe . . . the OTHER self-extracting .zip file.
>
> I'm glad you reminded me about those files. I need to
> combine and update them. I'll try to do that this weekend.
> In the mean time, get seminar.exe for the seedling
> wirebook drawing.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse link larger than 22 AWG |
Bob,
Thanks for clearing that up. I've kept w/ the design
philosophy of 3 Amps or so but was just following
blindly with respect to the 14 AWG cable and the 20
AWG fuse link. I now realize that I can easily go w/
the 22 AWG fuse link.
On that note, I think I'm representative of at least a
few of your 'devotees' in that I consider myself an
electrical novice; I (we) tend to follow blindly your
instructions to the letter.
Your reference is by far the best, most applicable
source of information I've encountered for any phase
(skill requirement, etc) of building this flying
(hopefully) machine. Thanks.
Mike
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> Nuckolls, III"
>
> deeter
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >I want to construct the 20 AWG fusible link
> protecting
> >the 14 AWG wire from the battery contactor to the
> >e-buss switch shown in Z-1. I've purchased and
> >received your fuse link kit and downloaded the
> >instructions from your web site.
> >
> >Questions:
> >
> >The web site instructional pictorial says for 22 &
> 24
> >fuse links only. What do I do?
> >
> >Also, why a 20 gauge and not an 18 gauge for the
> >application in question? I thought the rule was to
> >protect a wire w/ a link 4 gauges smaller.
>
> AT LEAST 4AWG steps smaller. I used 14AWG for the
> e-bus feed to cover cases where the battery is in
> the
> tail of a two-seat tandem aircraft to minimize
> voltage
> drop. The e-bus alternate feed should still be
> generally
> limited to 3-5 amps continuous load during battery
> only
> operations.
>
> With a less-than-year-old 17 a.h. RG battery, I'd
> like to fly for duration of fuel aboard with only
> the
> e-bus "get-me-to-intended-destination" loads
> running
> and hopefully still have a bit left over for
> landing
> light.
>
> Soooo . . . a 22AWG fuse link is entirely
> appropriate
> for this application . . . and in fact, 10A
> continuous
> warms up a 22AWG wire but doesn't even come close
> to
> smoking it. If you truly NEED bigger than 22AWG
> in
> a fusible link situation, we need to evaluate your
> design philosophy for hidden hazards.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than
> knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives
> formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein
> )
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
> and through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Strobe Light Wiring |
Bob:
Does the wiring to the strobe power supply need to be
shielded? I realize the wiring from the power supply
to the lights are but I'm referring to the wires from
the buss to the controller.
Mike
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Light Wiring |
>
>Bob:
>
>Does the wiring to the strobe power supply need to be
>shielded? I realize the wiring from the power supply
>to the lights are but I'm referring to the wires from
>the buss to the controller.
>
>Mike
Generally no . . . shielding is beneficial to
reduction of a specific kind of noise coupling that
is NOT produced by the strobe's power supply. If you
DO have noise in the system that is shown to come from
the strobe system, a FILTER in the supply line is
a sure bet to clean it up.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse link larger than 22 AWG |
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for clearing that up. I've kept w/ the design
>philosophy of 3 Amps or so but was just following
>blindly with respect to the 14 AWG cable and the 20
>AWG fuse link. I now realize that I can easily go w/
>the 22 AWG fuse link.
>
>On that note, I think I'm representative of at least a
>few of your 'devotees' in that I consider myself an
>electrical novice; I (we) tend to follow blindly your
>instructions to the letter.
>
>Your reference is by far the best, most applicable
>source of information I've encountered for any phase
>(skill requirement, etc) of building this flying
>(hopefully) machine. Thanks.
>
>Mike
Thank you for the kind words . . . and thank you
also for asking questions on things for which the
reasoning is not clear. The things I write are
a result of our JOINT VENTURE to refine a product.
The effectiveness of the product cannot be measured
in miles/gallon, MPH/h.p. or any other metric.
It can only be qualified in a perception of understanding.
This means I cannot know where work needs to be done
without feedback from folks like yourself.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
>
>Bob,
>
>Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
>reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
>Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
>
>Charlie
These are self-extracting .zip files. I could publish them in
their generic .zip format. Is it safe to suppose that everyone
has the appropriate pkunzip utility? I'm not sure but I don't
think there is a version of AutoCAD that runs under the Mac
operating system so maybe it's a non issue anyway. Can you
shed some light on this?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark C. Milgrom" <milgrom(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
Visit the following URL:
http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/expander_mac_login.html
Mac users can unzip ZIPped files using Suffit Expander for Mac, which is
an excellent (and free) utility.
Regarding AutoCAD, I believe you are correct in stating that there is no
current version of AutoCAD for the Mac.
Mark Milgrom
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
> >reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
> >Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
> >
> >Charlie
>
> These are self-extracting .zip files. I could publish them in
> their generic .zip format. Is it safe to suppose that everyone
> has the appropriate pkunzip utility? I'm not sure but I don't
> think there is a version of AutoCAD that runs under the Mac
> operating system so maybe it's a non issue anyway. Can you
> shed some light on this?
>
> Bob . . .s
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
| From: | Bob & Karen Risch <bkrisch(at)ouraynet.com> |
Bob, et.al.
I too am a Mac user and have the same problem with .exe files. I use a
program called Macdraft that can open dwg files but it failed to open the
Wirebook.exe file I downloaded this afternoon from your website. It would be
great to take advantage of all of your work and produce nifty wiring
diagrams for my 801, and the .zip format may be the way to go. Will
appreciate your continuing to experiment with file formats that we
macaddicts can exploit.
Bob
--
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:04:56 -0600
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wirebook.dwg
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
>> reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
>> Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
>>
>> Charlie
>
> These are self-extracting .zip files. I could publish them in
> their generic .zip format. Is it safe to suppose that everyone
> has the appropriate pkunzip utility? I'm not sure but I don't
> think there is a version of AutoCAD that runs under the Mac
> operating system so maybe it's a non issue anyway. Can you
> shed some light on this?
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
>>reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
>>Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
>>
>>Charlie
>
> These are self-extracting .zip files. I could publish them in
> their generic .zip format. Is it safe to suppose that everyone
> has the appropriate pkunzip utility? I'm not sure but I don't
> think there is a version of AutoCAD that runs under the Mac
> operating system so maybe it's a non issue anyway. Can you
> shed some light on this?
>
> Bob . . .
The newer versions of Stuffit Expander are smart enough to extract
the files from many self-extracting archives. You just drag the .exe
file to the Stuffit Expander application. I tried this on
wirebook.exe with Stuffit Expander 5.5 and it seemed to work fine.
I still haven't found a way to use .dwg files though. Would they
still be useable if they were exported as .dxf files? I can read
.dxf using Cadintosh, a shareware CAD program from
http:www.lemkesoft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why fuse for wires? |
>Bob, I have been reading your articles. You make the point in an
>article about fuses vs breakers that the fuse is there to protect the
>wire. I was wondering why specially protect the wire? If I put a fuse
>on the end user (say a radio) that protects the radio. If I size the
>wire correctly for the load (temperature rise), then the radio fuse
>would kick in before the wire gets hot, so both are protected. Does
>that make sense?
Only in a very limited sense. In airplanes and most DC
powered vehicles, the branch circuits are fixed load.
Unlike your house, loads at the ends of a wire in your
airplnae tend not to change. A branch circuit for your
bedroom may never be loaded more than a couple of amps
yet the breaker that PROTECTS the 14AWG wire to all the
lights and outlets in the room is 15A device designed
to keep that piece of wire from catching fire.
The fact that a short INSIDE a radio (or bedside lamp)
will also open a breaker or fuse doesn't mean that
the radio is afforded any useful "protection" . . .
after all, it just shorted, went belly up, and
took out it's own power source!
The important event here is that the power source went
down to protect the intervening wire . . . if something
craps inside an accessory and presents a hazardous
overload to the power supply wiring, #1 task is to
protect wiring. #2 task is to keep the failure from
propagating to the rest of the system.
Any "protection" afforded the dead appliance is
#3 in line and way down on your list of concerns
for comfortable operation of your airplane.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter contactor, ND alt/reg OV |
Hi Bob, I couldn't open this link to the starter contactor article, and I
don't understand your last paragraph on using a "boost relay with ANY of the
modern, lightweight starters that feature electro-mechanically engaged
pinion gears". I have a Stratus Subaru and was not planning on using a
relay or contactor for the starter but it sounds like there may be some
advantage to doing this. Could you elaborate (or send me the article)?
Also, the Stratus has a ND alternator with a built-in regulator. I read
that I could send it to B&C to have a crowbar lead brought out. I plan on
having a PC in my instrument panel for instrumentation and was wondering if
I could have the PC monitor the regulated voltage and trip a relay in the
case of overvoltage. How quick would I need to disconnect the alt/reg in
case of an overvoltage? Would this damage the alternator or would that
matter if there was a regulator failure with the ND alternator/regulator?
Thanks for all the help you've already given me with your book and articles,
awesome website.
Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-14
>
>
> I've followed the postings and understand
> (sorta...)the reasons for replacing the standard
> starter contactor w/ the S704-1 relay when installing
> a PM starter. Why not for other starters? The relay
> is lighter. Must be some reason.
>
> Mike
>
> There is an article I published some time back that
> describes essential characteristics of modern starter
> engagement solenoid/contactor combinations. This piece
> describes the two-stage engagement philosophy that achieves
> a useful compromise between force needed for rapid and
> positive engagement and the force needed to maintain
> engagement once the mechanism reaches full stroke. You
> can download this work at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
>
> The BIG downside of this technology is the very high
> inrush current that eats up starter switches. Further,
> engagement efficiency is degraded if if one doesn't
> provide a very low resistance pathway to the battery
> through the starter switch.
>
> Since Day-One, B&C has recommended use of a separate
> starter contactor. The starter solenoid's supply lead
> is simply tied together with the main starter feedline.
> Now, the starter switch need only handle the 5A or so
> needed to control the starter contactor and it never
> sees the high inrush current draw of the starter engagement
> solenoid. Our S702-1 starter contactor has a built-in
> arc-suppression diode . . . a big help for increasing
> service life of the starter switch.
>
>
> I am designing my electrical system very similar to Z-1 with the exception
> of the essential bus and a keyed starter. My new Lycoming engine came
> with an SkyTec starter so I assume I'll need to use a relay as shown in
> Z-14. Does this mean I don't need a starter contactor? Does this relay
> replace the contactor or is it additional to it? Thanks
>
> Matt
>
> A problem arises when the starter utilizes a permanent
> magnet motor. These motors are also efficient generators
> During spin-down of the motor after the starter
> is de-energized, the motor puts out a substantial amount
> of power sufficient to KEEP the pinion gear solenoid
> ENGAGED for several seconds after you release the pushbutton.
>
> The technique described in our wiring diagrams was
> developed as a compromise between maintaining good
> starter solenoid/contactor performance with a variety
> of starter switches.
>
> Problems with the philosophy didn't arise until the
> permanent magnet motor showed up. Again, we sought
> a solution that maintained performance of the starter's
> built in solenoid/contactor system that did not
> transfer the system's unique loads to the circuitry
> that controls the starter. Hence, the "boost" relay
> described in Figure Z-14.
>
> One COULD choose to use the boost relay with ANY
> of the modern, lightweight starters that feature
> electro-mechanically engaged pinion gears. This
> would move the ideal alternator b-lead feedpoint
> from a contactor on the firewall down to the
> main power terminal of the starter solenoid/
> contactor assembly.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
Bob,
The aeroelectric connection site shows this radio for sale as an
assembled unit. The Microair site also shows a transponder that seems to
be a kit.
http://www.microair.com.au/product/product.asp
The "kit" reference appears only if you hover the mouse over the
graphic. The reference shows what seems to be an assembled unit.
Some questions:
If there is actually a transponder available, can you obtain it as a
dealer?
For how much?
Is it legal for USA use? They talk about pending TSO approval.
Is it in fact available as a kit?
A transponder as small as the 760 is appealing.
If we can we get them to produce a VOR receiver, my panel would be
complete!
regards and TIA
Jim Bean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Lane" <n3773(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | dual freq monitoring |
I have been looking into a second radio in order to communicate with my
buddy while we practice some formation flying(we don't fly close enough for
hand signals yet!). The tower doesn't appreciate ANY chatter on their freq.
I was wondering about using a small handheld, since they are inexpensive and
our required range is so small. My flightcom intercom has inputs for music
and the ability to set priority. Shouldn't I be able to listen to the tower
and through the music input monitor my buddies transmissions over the
handheld? Then with a simple switch, com1/com2 microphone, decide who to
transmit to? Will the feed from the handheld via the headphone jack be
compatible with the input for the intercom music input?
The JRC radio has dual freq monitoring built in, but the avionics guy
said that it couldn't be run thru the intercom, that the headset needed to
be plugged directly into the radio. Is this true? Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
>
>Bob,
>The aeroelectric connection site shows this radio for sale as an
>assembled unit. The Microair site also shows a transponder that seems to
>be a kit.
>http://www.microair.com.au/product/product.asp
>The "kit" reference appears only if you hover the mouse over the
>graphic. The reference shows what seems to be an assembled unit.
None of the MicroAir products are "kits" . . . they are
ready to install panel mounted avionics.
>Some questions:
>If there is actually a transponder available, can you obtain it as a
>dealer?
I am a dealer for MicroAir and my last communication with them
indicated that the transponder would be available about now
but I've not received any notice from them. I'll e-mail them
today and inquire as to the status of this produt.
>For how much?
The last word I had indicated a $1200 target price.
>Is it legal for USA use? They talk about pending TSO approval.
If it's an aviation transponder and has TSO approval, it
is legal for use in the US.
>Is it in fact available as a kit?
NO
>A transponder as small as the 760 is appealing.
Very much so . . .
>If we can we get them to produce a VOR receiver, my panel would be
>complete!
Why would you put a receiver for 1950's technologies navigation
aids into your 2000 airplane? . . . Oh yes, you NEED one to
fly some IMC flight procedures. Frankly, I'd bolt one in
under the seat somewhere just to say I had one in the airplane
and then get my job done with GPS . . . you can fly DUAL
GPS receivers for less than $250. I've not turned on a VOR
receiver (except to demonstrate it to Young Eagles) in
4 years.
If I were Micro-Air, I'd not spend a dime developing a VOR
navigation product. VOR systems are slated for de-commissioning
in the not too distant future.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dual freq monitoring |
>
>I have been looking into a second radio in order to communicate with my
>buddy while we practice some formation flying(we don't fly close enough for
>hand signals yet!). The tower doesn't appreciate ANY chatter on their freq.
>I was wondering about using a small handheld, since they are inexpensive and
>our required range is so small. My flightcom intercom has inputs for music
>and the ability to set priority. Shouldn't I be able to listen to the tower
>and through the music input monitor my buddies transmissions over the
>handheld? Then with a simple switch, com1/com2 microphone, decide who to
>transmit to? Will the feed from the handheld via the headphone jack be
>compatible with the input for the intercom music input?
> The JRC radio has dual freq monitoring built in, but the avionics guy
>said that it couldn't be run thru the intercom, that the headset needed to
>be plugged directly into the radio. Is this true? Kevin
The JRC radio has an interface to standard aviation headsets. This
means that it can be spoken to and listened to just as if it
were a King or Narco product. It CAN be interfaced as a COMM 2 with
any audio panel that is so equipped.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter contactor, ND alt/reg OV |
Hi Bob, I couldn't open this link to the starter contactor article, and I
don't understand your last paragraph on using a "boost relay with ANY of the
modern, lightweight starters that feature electro-mechanically engaged
pinion gears".
Try this link. Do you have Acrobat Reader installed on
your computer?
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
I have a Stratus Subaru and was not planning on using a
relay or contactor for the starter but it sounds like there may be some
advantage to doing this. Could you elaborate (or send me the article)?
Yes, I would NOT use the starter control switch on the
panel to directly energize any of the modern starters.
Also, the Stratus has a ND alternator with a built-in regulator. I read
that I could send it to B&C to have a crowbar lead brought out. I plan on
having a PC in my instrument panel for instrumentation and was wondering if
I could have the PC monitor the regulated voltage and trip a relay in the
case of overvoltage. How quick would I need to disconnect the alt/reg in
case of an overvoltage?
In tens of milliseconds.
Would this damage the alternator or would that
matter if there was a regulator failure with the ND alternator/regulator?
With a built in regulator you need to break both the control
lead TO the alternator and the power output lead FROM the
alternator.
You can wire it as shown in Figure Z-14 which is available
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z14.pdf
Again, you need the free Acrobat Reader to view/print these
documents. You can get the version you need from:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Thanks for all the help you've already given me with your book and articles,
awesome website.
My pleasure sir. I'm glad that you're finding the work
useful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
Bob,
The self-extracting .zip files or any other .zip formats are not the
problem. My Mac can unzip them with no problems. The problem is with the
unzipped .exe file. Macs cannot use .exe files. Won't open. Can't convert.
To my knowledge, there is no AutoCAD for the Mac. I do have a small Mac
CAD program which can import several formats including PICT, DXF, IGES,
and XYZ drawings. I don't think it can import .dwg files, but I haven't
found one to try. My JPEG program can also convert many image files,
but, I haven't found any .dwg files to investigate.
Charlie
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wirebook.dwg
>
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Please don't start using .exe files for your great postings. A
> >reasonably large portion of your followers use Macintosh computers. Us
> >Mac users can use or manipulate almost any kind of file EXCEPT .exe files.
> >
> >Charlie
>
> These are self-extracting .zip files. I could publish them in
> their generic .zip format. Is it safe to suppose that everyone
> has the appropriate pkunzip utility? I'm not sure but I don't
> think there is a version of AutoCAD that runs under the Mac
> operating system so maybe it's a non issue anyway. Can you
> shed some light on this?
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca)" <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: dual freq monitoring |
Bob....expanding the question slightly.....could one take this radio setup (or
any two radios for
that matter), and simply "parallel" the two outputs into the intercomm input?
More simply, do we
really need an audio panel to switch two radio inputs? Presumably I could eliminate
one radio by
turning down it's volume or turning it off. On the transmit side, it's obvious
that I'll need
some sort of switch so that I'm only transmitting on one radio. But on the receive
side, can I
just run the two together?
Thx
Mike
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> >
snip....
>
> The JRC radio has an interface to standard aviation headsets. This
> means that it can be spoken to and listened to just as if it
> were a King or Narco product. It CAN be interfaced as a COMM 2 with
> any audio panel that is so equipped.
>
> Bob . . .
snip....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: P/N S704-1 12V, 20 Amp, Continuous Duty, SPDT Relay |
>Thanks for your comments, I am heading out on vacation, but I have
>answered your question below. I will type to you when I get back.
>
>The manual is here in my hands but I don't have a Fax handy right now.
>It makes some sense to me since it is: 600W/28V = 21A. Is there
>something I am missing? If so, I will try and fax you a copy when I
>return from vacation.
Nope . . . I wasn't aware that they'd gone to a 28v system.
In one sense, it's a GOOD idea . . . the problems associated
with getting more POWER out of a permanent magnet system are
hinged on the power LOST in a regulator due to CURRENT. The
power lost in a 14v regulator and a 28v regulator are the same
if your alternator puts out 21 amps. Sooooo . . . the EASY
way to get more snort out of a PM alternator is to jump the
system voltage to 28v. After all, if it was good for all the
Cessna singles from C-150 to C-210, why not for our emerging
fleet of owner built and maintained (OBAM) aircraft?
The biggest problems I perceive with the 28v choice is that
you are locked out of the vast inventory of very fine automotive
components out there. There are few 28v components made that
are not INTENDED for the aircraft market. A much lower volume,
heavily regulated market.
Having said that, you probably don't have a choice of alternators
from LOM so you're stuck with the offset of some savings for having
selected LOM over another brand.
>My amp load comes from: 2.6 Icom radio (transmit) + 1 uEncoder/uMonitor
>+ .5 transponder + 2.5 position lights + 7.2 landing light + extra =20.
>My "Extra" is probably way to generous, but it seemed to also match my
>"generator" (alternator now that I know).
>
>BTW, the manual was translated from czech so they probably did not mean
>to say generator.
Understand.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirebook.dwg |
>
>Bob,
>
>The self-extracting .zip files or any other .zip formats are not the
>problem. My Mac can unzip them with no problems. The problem is with the
>unzipped .exe file. Macs cannot use .exe files. Won't open. Can't convert.
There are no unzipped .exe files . . . the .exe file IS a .zip
file with a built in unzipper and tagged .exe so the operating
system knows what to do with it. If you've unzipped the files
contained therein, you can throw the .exe file away . . . you're
finished with it.
>To my knowledge, there is no AutoCAD for the Mac. I do have a small Mac
>CAD program which can import several formats including PICT, DXF, IGES,
>and XYZ drawings. I don't think it can import .dwg files, but I haven't
>found one to try. My JPEG program can also convert many image files,
>but, I haven't found any .dwg files to investigate.
Okay. I'll see about doing a special dump of the drawings to
.dxf and then zipping those together. I'll announce availability
on this list.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OV module parts |
>Hi Bob,
>
>I just ordered your aeroelectric connection docs and am looking forward to it.
I am planning on making a couple of the OV crowbar modules, but when I went
to Digi-key to order, they said the MUS4991 part was an invalid part number (ref
Fig 3 of the OV module article.) Could you provide a replacement part number
or enough part characteristics that I might find a substitute?
>
>Thanks for all your work,
>
>Gary Liming
This part has gone obsolete and there is no substitute. I'm
working on a new design that utilizes parts readily available
from local parts stores. Will announce the document on this
list server and on the front page of my website as soon as
it's up for viewing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
| Subject: | Navigation Antenna |
I am getting ready to order the antennas for the Mustang II that I am
building. Because I have such a thin vertical stabilizer and because it
would be difficult to mount the standard rabbit ears there for my VOR/GS
antenna, I wanted to get a pair of blade antennas, such as those made by
Comant. See the information at http://comant.com/ci120gs.html
<http://comant.com/ci120gs.html>
My idea is to mount those antennas below the horizontal stablizer on either
side of the tail cone. It would be a lot easier to do the mount there and I
could have access to the antennas through a nearby inspection plate if they
ever needed service or replacement. My question and concern is this: Does
the fact that the blades are separated by the width of the tail cone (about
one foot) create any reception problems? Does my intended location have any
other problems? I have seen a similar installation on a Beechcraft Bonanza,
but I have no idea whether the reception was any good.
I know that when the rabbit ears or towel bar antennas for VOR/GS are
mounted on the vertical fin, each side of the antenna is within inches of
the other side, and I do not know what effect a wider separation of the
blades might have. If you have experience or knowledge regarding this
question, I would appreciate hearing from you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage regulator |
Bob, I just got off the phone with Scott at Varga Enterprizes in
Chandler, AZ. I was discussing a problem with the voltage regulator in
our PA28-151. The old, original unit was replaced with a Lamar unit
#B00373-1, some years ago. It was replaced again in June of 1998. The
problem that we have been encountering is, the load meter oscillates
back and forth like a metronome. The needle deflects full scale with
the "low voltage" light flickering as it reached to low end of the
scale. We have replaced, in the last 2.5 years, the alternator,
battery, all of the aluminum wiring associated with the charging system,
the load meter itself, and the master switch. At the last annual, (last
week) our mechanic placed a "jumper" wire on the alternator to bypass
the VR and, the oscillations stopped. We are, and have been, of the
opinion, that the problem is with the VR. Scott says that you are the
World's "guru" when it comes to the world of aircraft electrical
systems. Have you any insight that you might be able to share with us
regarding this situation? Would appreciate any help.
Warren McIlvoy, President
Cherokee Air, LtD
warren.mcilvoy(at)asu.edu
Just as an experiment, have your mechanic hook a wire
from the alternator's b-lead (main power output terminal)
to the regulator's field power input lead. Leave the alternator
switch off or pull the alternator field breaker.
If the alternator comes up stable then this is the
most likely scenario:
A regulator is a servo system. It looks at the bus
and steers the field current of an alternator to maintain
the desired bus voltage set point.
The regulator gets its information about bus voltage
through the same pathway as the field supply current.
On some production airplanes, this pathway has upwards
of 20 ohmic joints (wire crimps, closed contacts in
switches, solder joint, mated contacts in plugs, etc.)
in addition to perhaps 5-10 feet of 20AWG wire with
a resistance of about 10 milliohms per foot.
Aging of the ohmic joints raises their electrical
resistance. No single joint contributes a lot but
all totaled up, the supply circuit resistance can
exceed 100 millioms.
Now, field current will vary normally between .5
and 4 amps depending on RPM and system loads. With
a 4 amp load and 100 millohms of resistance in the
regulator's sense lead, the regulator's best guess
about bus voltage may be in error by 400 millivolts
or more. Worse yet, as the regulator INCREASES
field current in an attempt to raise bus voltage,
part of the true increase is masked by an INCREASED
LOSS of voltage along the sense lead due to field
current. This causes the regulator to lag behind
reality and in extreme cases, induces a bus voltage
chasing mode with symptoms much as you have described.
TWO FIXES:
(1) change the regulator out for one that has
voltage sense leads that are independent of the
field supply current. This has to be done by
at least a 337 effort and at worst, an STC.
(2) do a total refurbishment of all items in
the field supply pathway starting with the
breaker and carrying it all the way to the
regulator. This includes all connectors, switches,
ov relays, etc., etc.
Many owners have reported that replacing the
master switch fixed the problem. In fact, changing
one of many parts contributing to the problem
reduced the resistance enough to make the system
stable again. However, the problem will return
in spite of a reasonably good master switch
because the switch and all the rest of the components
continue to age - driving total resistance past
the lower limit for stability.
If you replace EVERYTHING, the system should
stay stable for another 20 years or so. This problem
is worst in older airplanes and is a function of
age. Total refurbishment brings the resistance
back down to factory-new levels.
Let me know how this works out for you.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Heisler" <majh(at)islandtelecom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navigation Antenna |
how about using an archer vor / gs antenna in your fibreglass wingtip? less
work and less cost.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <BRogers(at)fdic.gov>
Date: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Navigation Antenna
>
>I am getting ready to order the antennas for the Mustang II that I am
>building. Because I have such a thin vertical stabilizer and because it
>would be difficult to mount the standard rabbit ears there for my VOR/GS
>antenna, I wanted to get a pair of blade antennas, such as those made by
>Comant. See the information at http://comant.com/ci120gs.html
><http://comant.com/ci120gs.html>
>
>My idea is to mount those antennas below the horizontal stablizer on either
>side of the tail cone. It would be a lot easier to do the mount there and
I
>could have access to the antennas through a nearby inspection plate if they
>ever needed service or replacement. My question and concern is this: Does
>the fact that the blades are separated by the width of the tail cone (about
>one foot) create any reception problems? Does my intended location have
any
>other problems? I have seen a similar installation on a Beechcraft
Bonanza,
>but I have no idea whether the reception was any good.
>
>I know that when the rabbit ears or towel bar antennas for VOR/GS are
>mounted on the vertical fin, each side of the antenna is within inches of
>the other side, and I do not know what effect a wider separation of the
>blades might have. If you have experience or knowledge regarding this
>question, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | dual bat/ig/fp's |
Bob,
First, my apologies for wasting your time with my other question - you
were right, I didn't have acrobat reader. I just rebuilt my PC and
hadn't re-installed it yet which explains why I couldn't read the link
that you sent out. ooops.
Second, I want to double-check with you that it is ok to use the
regulator overvoltage disconnect as in fig Z-14 on the Stratus ND
alt/reg. I thought it had to be modified to do that. This would be
great if I could just add the ov module and relay without modification.
And finally, I'm trying to finalize my design and order a batch of
parts from you. I realize there are many solutions to the same problem
but I'm hoping for comments on another implementation of fig Z-14. I'm
wiring up a Stratus EA-81 with dual ignition, dual fuel pumps and dual
batteries. I guess I should just build a twin-engine airplane at this
time but maybe I'll upgrade later ;<}. I was going to have a smaller
5-8 AH backup battery charged thru a diode (how does the aux bat get
charged in Z-14? Thru the low volt module?). The backup battery would
only be for fuel pump and ignition redundancy at low altitudes or for
main system failure. Each fuel pump and ignition would go thru an
on-off-on switch to each battery buss (main and backup). Each battery,
pump and ignition could be checked in preflight by sequencing the
switches, and for takeoff and landing one pump and one ignition would be
switched to the main and the other pump and ignition would be on the
backup battery. During cruise the backup pump and ignition would be
switched off of the backup battery. I guess the tradeoff here is a
simpler implementation that requires the weak link (pilot) to do the
switching verses the more complex but automatic (probably more reliable)
low voltage monitor, relay and essential buss in fig Z-14. I would
still want to check both pumps and both ignitions in preflight so I
would still need some switches anyway, right?
Also, if the extremely low probability of the main battery "going bad"
does occur, fig Z-14 has the aux battery connected to it with no way to
isolate the two batteries, right? Could the main battery take out the
aux battery in this case?
BTW, great implementation of the alt/battery master switch. I'll
definitely be using your much more intuitive approach instead of the
Cessna split master switch.
Sorry for the lengthy email (everybody), hope I didn't exceed maximum
questions per email.
Thanks again, Gary K.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OV module parts |
Bob,
I am also building a pair or OVM's.
A couple of weeks ago I emailed on this list to ask you for a source /
substitute for the MUS4991.
You did not reply to my query, but someone else did and suggested using a
(Motorola) MBS4991.
I purchased two of these from RadioShack.com and was about to build the
OVM's with them.
Are these parts suitable?
Thanks for you for your assistance.
Ulrich
CH801 (hot & heavy into all electric panel / wiring)
writes:
>
>
>
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >I just ordered your aeroelectric connection docs and am looking
> forward to it. I am planning on making a couple of the OV crowbar
> modules, but when I went to Digi-key to order, they said the MUS4991
> part was an invalid part number (ref Fig 3 of the OV module
> article.) Could you provide a replacement part number or enough
> part characteristics that I might find a substitute?
> >
> >Thanks for all your work,
> >
> >Gary Liming
>
>
> This part has gone obsolete and there is no substitute. I'm
> working on a new design that utilizes parts readily available
> from local parts stores. Will announce the document on this
> list server and on the front page of my website as soon as
> it's up for viewing.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===== {______ }=====
_______ | o |______ _______________________
_|______ \_____ /______|_______________________/*
][ ][ ][
(_) (_) (_) ulrich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OV module parts |
>
>Bob,
>
>I am also building a pair or OVM's.
>
>A couple of weeks ago I emailed on this list to ask you for a source /
>substitute for the MUS4991.
>You did not reply to my query, but someone else did and suggested using a
>(Motorola) MBS4991.
>
>I purchased two of these from RadioShack.com and was about to build the
>OVM's with them.
>Are these parts suitable?
Sorry for ignoring you. The MBS4991 is indeed the REAL
part number and it is indeed suited to the task.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OV module parts |
MBS4991 ?
RadioShack seems to still have it (on-line ordering). Part no: 900-3156.
http://www.radioshack.com
Finn
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >I just ordered your aeroelectric connection docs and am looking forward to it.
I am planning on making a couple of the OV crowbar modules, but when I went
to Digi-key to order, they said the MUS4991 part was an invalid part number
(ref Fig 3 of the OV module article.) Could you provide a replacement part number
or enough part characteristics that I might find a substitute?
> >
> >Thanks for all your work,
> >
> >Gary Liming
>
> This part has gone obsolete and there is no substitute. I'm
> working on a new design that utilizes parts readily available
> from local parts stores. Will announce the document on this
> list server and on the front page of my website as soon as
> it's up for viewing.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Decker <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bob: Wire splicing |
I am trying to splice the #26 wires from my MAC servos to #20 wire that
I'm running throughout the aircraft (I got a deal on gobs #20 so I'm using
this instead of #22). I cannot find any butt splices or solder seals that
say they will accomodate both the #26 and the #20. Any suggestions?
Matt
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Oberst" <joberst(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob: Wire splicing |
Solder the wires together and put heat-shrink over it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Decker <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob: Wire splicing
>
> I am trying to splice the #26 wires from my MAC servos to #20 wire that
> I'm running throughout the aircraft (I got a deal on gobs #20 so I'm using
> this instead of #22). I cannot find any butt splices or solder seals that
> say they will accomodate both the #26 and the #20. Any suggestions?
>
> Matt
>
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob: Wire splicing |
>
>I am trying to splice the #26 wires from my MAC servos to #20 wire that
>I'm running throughout the aircraft (I got a deal on gobs #20 so I'm using
>this instead of #22). I cannot find any butt splices or solder seals that
>say they will accomodate both the #26 and the #20. Any suggestions?
>
>Matt
Why 'splice' when you probably want a maintenance friendly
disconnect right at the actuator anyhow. Use a connector
as illustrated in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
and you'll find that the 26AWG goes into the connector nicely
on one side while you continue on with 20AWG to the rest of
the system on the other side.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike deeter <iguanamagic(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OV Contactor wiring |
Bob:
Another question which will illustrate how blindly we
electrical novices follow your notes to the letter:
I bought the 4 terminal B-lead OV contactor from B&C
as illustrated in your posting "OV Protection For
Built-in Regulator". Your posting shows no jumper
from one of the coil (small) leads to one of the large
leads as is present on my contactor from B&C. I
assume I remove the jumper. Correct?
Mike
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sky-Tec starter button question |
Bob and fellow listers,
I have a Sky-Tec starter on my IO-320 (RV-6) and plan to engage it using a heavy
duty starter button. (The big silver kind used on boats, diesel engines, etc.)
I have removed the little jumper on the starter solenoid and will feed power to
it independently from the starter motor to prevent the run-on problem.
It would be convenient to run solenoid power directly through the starter button
and avoid mounting yet another relay on the firewall. My question: Could I use
a diode from the solenoid side of the starter button to ground to protect the
starter button contacts? Would this work the same way a diode on the battery
contactor protects the master switch contacts, or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Danny Kight
Anderson, SC
EAA Chapter 249
Sonerai IILT (flying)
RV-6 (wiring, wiring, wiring...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Decker <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
The Alt. switch to Bus circuit in figure z-1 shows a fusable link. Why is
protection needed here? Why a link and simply not a 5 amp fuse on the bus
bar? Thanks
Matt
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OV Contactor wiring |
>
>Bob:
>
>Another question which will illustrate how blindly we
>electrical novices follow your notes to the letter:
>
>I bought the 4 terminal B-lead OV contactor from B&C
>as illustrated in your posting "OV Protection For
>Built-in Regulator". Your posting shows no jumper
>from one of the coil (small) leads to one of the large
>leads as is present on my contactor from B&C. I
>assume I remove the jumper. Correct?
>
>Mike
You are correct. We install the jumper to make the
contactor function as-purchased as though it were
a 3-terminal battery contactor. When used in other
applications such as B-lead OV protection, crossfeed
contactors and others, you remove the jumper to return
it to a 4-lead device. The diode stays on.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Strobe Molex Connectors |
> Can any one give me a play by play on how to install Molex connectors?
>
> I have a Whelen strobe power supply from Van with the installation
package.
> I need to connect the three strobe light leads and the power/ground lines
to
> the connectors.
>
> Thank-you,
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
First off, these are AMP Mate-N-Lock connectors as opposed to Molex. Second,
the Aeroelectric Connection site has a nice tutorial on this type of
connector.
Have fun!
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Solder vs. crimp - debate rages on. |
Had a rash of e-mails recently about an article that
appeared in Sport Aviation a couple of years ago. It was
an article that I reviewed and recommended that it not
be published.
It got published anyway and I've been sorting out the
fallout since. Got two more e-mails about it last week.
I finally decided to do a line by line critical review
and publish the result.
You're all welcome to check out the results at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
I'd appreciate getting feedback on errors of spelling,
syntax, or physics or any other kind.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Caldarale" <n828cl(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Solder vs. crimp - debate rages on. |
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Solder vs. crimp - debate rages on.
>
> III"
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
>
> I'd appreciate getting feedback on errors of spelling,
> syntax, or physics or any other kind.
Bob - I have a few comments (all typos) for you, but I can't seem to e-mail
directly. When I try, it appears that some spam blocking software on your
machine (Dr-Teeth) prevents delivery:
from user-2injhm5.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.198.197]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to dr-teeth.eucleides.com.:
>>> MAIL From:
<<< 550 Direct spam source 207.69.200.148 rejected; see http://www.orbs.org
554 ... Service unavailable
My DSL connection goes through 207.69.219.129 (a MindSpring/EarthLink router
in Chicago); that's as close as I get to granger.mail.mindspring.net, the
site you appear to be trying to block. Is your security a little too tight?
Thanks very much for the rebuttal article, by the way.
- Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: testing dsub connectors |
>Bob
>
>I forgot to ask a question in my message to you a few minutes
>ago. I just received my multimeter I ordered from you and I have a
>problem. I am trying to check connections on some wire
>harnesses with Dsub connectors. The problem is that the probe
>ends are to large to make contact. Is there a simple trick to
>accomplish this? I have tried a couple of ideas but they proved
>awkward.
>Jim
You betcha. Take a peek at this photo:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/photos/clippins.jpg
I very seldom use the probes that come with most
mulimeters. You can purchase the clips, boots, soft
rubber insulated test lead wire and banana plugs
at a local parts store . . . Radio Shack may have
the stuff, I'll have to look. Build a set of clip
leads like those shown in the picture.
Then, collect an assortment of male and female
pins that mate with the connectors used in your
airplane. When I cut a connector of a disused
harness, I'll often push out an assortment of
the pins in salvaged connector. I keep the used
ones for future testing purposes and save the
connector body for re-use with fresh pins.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Bobka <BOBKA(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder vs. crimp - debate rages on. |
Kudos to Bob's philosophy. Something wrong with the management at EAA and
they just can't see the forest for the trees. I always refer to their
articles as 'fluff' and "feel good, warm and fuzzy" but you don't learn
much. the best articles were from the sixties and seventies.
Chris Bobka
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Circuit protection for big wires |
I'm building an RV-8 with an aft mounted battery. I note that the
electrical system schematics in Bob's Appendix Z don't show any
circuit protection on the big wires going to the starter contactor,
and to the main fuse block. Both those wires will be quite long in
my installation, and I'm concerned about the lack of protection. I
have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
the starter will only be live during a start.
That still leaves the long cable going to the main fuse block. Would
it be practical to either make a large capacity fuselink, or install
a large CB or fuse in that line? I would rather deal with an
inflight short by seeing everything go black, and then selecting the
essential bus alternate feed, than scrambling to throw the battery
master in the middle of a major smoke in the cockpit event.
Comments?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing wheels and brakes)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (canopy)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <iflygood(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
Kevin, I know Bob has an entire philosophy built up about this, but here's
my .02.
All you need is the master relay mounted on the battery. Control it with
power rather than ground, so that a major short will cause the relay to drop
out. If you smell smoke, you only worry about the master switch, forget the
'essential bus', get the thing on the ground! (I guess if you are going to
fly in the clouds, you will have to do the EB thing.)
I have been active in the Cessna 180/185 club for 10 years now, they all
have aft mounted batteries, and I have never even heard of a problem with
shorts on the main feed (many hours of listening to stories!).
John
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit protection for big wires
>Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:12:30 -0500
>
>
>I'm building an RV-8 with an aft mounted battery. I note that the
>electrical system schematics in Bob's Appendix Z don't show any
>circuit protection on the big wires going to the starter contactor,
>and to the main fuse block. Both those wires will be quite long in
>my installation, and I'm concerned about the lack of protection. I
>have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
>something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
>by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
>
>I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
>the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
>the starter will only be live during a start.
>
>That still leaves the long cable going to the main fuse block. Would
>it be practical to either make a large capacity fuselink, or install
>a large CB or fuse in that line? I would rather deal with an
>inflight short by seeing everything go black, and then selecting the
>essential bus alternate feed, than scrambling to throw the battery
>master in the middle of a major smoke in the cockpit event.
>
>Comments?
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing wheels and brakes)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (canopy)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
>
>I'm building an RV-8 with an aft mounted battery. I note that the
>electrical system schematics in Bob's Appendix Z don't show any
>circuit protection on the big wires going to the starter contactor,
>and to the main fuse block. Both those wires will be quite long in
>my installation, and I'm concerned about the lack of protection. I
>have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
>something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
>by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
>
>I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
>the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
>the starter will only be live during a start.
>
>That still leaves the long cable going to the main fuse block. Would
>it be practical to either make a large capacity fuselink, or install
>a large CB or fuse in that line? I would rather deal with an
>inflight short by seeing everything go black, and then selecting the
>essential bus alternate feed, than scrambling to throw the battery
>master in the middle of a major smoke in the cockpit event.
>
>Comments?
The interesting thing about FAT wires in an airplane
is that while they carry the greatest energy and potential
for current flow, they represent the least hazard with respect
to electrical faults.
It's very difficult to create a hard fault on one of these
wires. Study the wire's pathway through the airframe. What
items of structure or loose systems might come to bear on one
of these wires with sufficient force to compromise its
insulation and produce a hard short? If the possiblity
of such a scenario exists, it's easier to design out the
possibility than to provide fusible protection for the wire.
If a fault does develop, it's most likely a "soft" fault
that causes some arcing (battery wires rubbing the edge
of a lightening hole is a good example) that simply burns
away the area it touches without bringing down the system.
Over 200,000 airplanes have been built in this country
without fusible protection of the FAT wires. Like wing
struts, propeller shafts, flight controls . . . it's
relatively easy to product very low probability of
failure by design.
Another reader suggested that the battery contactor
should be a hot-side control as opposed to cold-side
control. A little study will show that it doesn't
make any difference which side of the contactor
is switched. A severe fault on the feedline downstream
of the contactor will load the battery to a point
perhaps low enough to cause the contactor to open.
When it does, battery voltage comes back up and the
contactor recloses. This sets up a scenario for
"buzzing" of the battery contactor which almost
always results in a welding of the contactor.
It's really easy to protect he wire from faults to
the degree that fuses and/or breakers are not
necessary.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Opps . . didn't finish the job re: Protection for |
big wires
>I
>have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
>something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
>by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
If it's an impending crash that you're preparing for,
ALL SWITCHES OFF is a good thing to do before coming
into contact with the earth.
>I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
>the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
>the starter will only be live during a start.
If you do this, you'll loose the advantage of tying
alternator b-lead power feeds to the starter contactor
and avoid bringing the noisiest wire in the airplane
into the cockpit for attachment to the bus along with
your audio system and radios.
The power distribution diagrams in Appendix Z
have evolved over more than 12 years of refining
ideas and philosophies on owner built and maintained
(OBAM) aircraft. I won't say that they're infallible
nor would I suggest that we won't deduce good reasons
for changes in the future. Given the rich database of
history about fat wires in little airplanes and our
understanding of the designed in failure modes of
certified airplanes (see Chapter 17 of the AeroElectric
Connection) I would counsel caution about major
departures the philosophies presently illustrated by those
drawings.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <iflygood(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
Kevin and Bob
I am also building an aft battery RV8. My original thought was to connect
the coil of the master relay to +V, and switch ground at the master switch
on the panel. This way, the switch wire itself is not a hazard, if it shorts
to ground, it is still through the coil resistance. When I read Kevin's
question, I thought it might help if the resistance of the wire was included
in the circuit, to help the relay drop out. I admit this is a marginal
condition, and after thinking about Bob's comments, I am back to switching
ground.
Kevin, I absolutely agree that the start solenoid belongs up front.
Otherwise, you would have to run a separate cable for power up front for
everything else. This is the old saying "Put all your eggs in one basket,
and then WATCH THAT BASKET". Be very careful about routing that 2 AWG wire.
Lots of adel clamps. It is tough to fuse a wire, when the normal load is in
excess of 100 Amps.
John
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Circuit protection for big wires
>Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:40:06 -0600
>
>
>
>
> >
> >I'm building an RV-8 with an aft mounted battery. I note that the
> >electrical system schematics in Bob's Appendix Z don't show any
> >circuit protection on the big wires going to the starter contactor,
> >and to the main fuse block. Both those wires will be quite long in
> >my installation, and I'm concerned about the lack of protection. I
> >have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
> >something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
> >by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
> >
> >I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
> >the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
> >the starter will only be live during a start.
> >
> >That still leaves the long cable going to the main fuse block. Would
> >it be practical to either make a large capacity fuselink, or install
> >a large CB or fuse in that line? I would rather deal with an
> >inflight short by seeing everything go black, and then selecting the
> >essential bus alternate feed, than scrambling to throw the battery
> >master in the middle of a major smoke in the cockpit event.
> >
> >Comments?
>
> The interesting thing about FAT wires in an airplane
> is that while they carry the greatest energy and potential
> for current flow, they represent the least hazard with respect
> to electrical faults.
>
> It's very difficult to create a hard fault on one of these
> wires. Study the wire's pathway through the airframe. What
> items of structure or loose systems might come to bear on one
> of these wires with sufficient force to compromise its
> insulation and produce a hard short? If the possiblity
> of such a scenario exists, it's easier to design out the
> possibility than to provide fusible protection for the wire.
>
> If a fault does develop, it's most likely a "soft" fault
> that causes some arcing (battery wires rubbing the edge
> of a lightening hole is a good example) that simply burns
> away the area it touches without bringing down the system.
>
> Over 200,000 airplanes have been built in this country
> without fusible protection of the FAT wires. Like wing
> struts, propeller shafts, flight controls . . . it's
> relatively easy to product very low probability of
> failure by design.
>
> Another reader suggested that the battery contactor
> should be a hot-side control as opposed to cold-side
> control. A little study will show that it doesn't
> make any difference which side of the contactor
> is switched. A severe fault on the feedline downstream
> of the contactor will load the battery to a point
> perhaps low enough to cause the contactor to open.
> When it does, battery voltage comes back up and the
> contactor recloses. This sets up a scenario for
> "buzzing" of the battery contactor which almost
> always results in a welding of the contactor.
>
> It's really easy to protect he wire from faults to
> the degree that fuses and/or breakers are not
> necessary.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seeking a Recommendation on Intercom Cable Selection |
/ Wiring Method
Bob,
Despite reading (& rereading) your AeroElectric Connection, and looking
at
your web site I'm unsure as to the best cabling choice to install a
4-person
intercom in an all metal A/C.
I'm installing an RST-Engineering product (RST-565) and in his manual he
(Jim Weir) suggests that RG-174 is fine for connecting the mike audio.
I plan on
using the insulating washers you sell (P/N S825-1). If I understand
correctly these washers
will insulate the jacks from the airframe, then the "ground (shell)"
connection wire should be
run all the way to the forest of tabs on the firewall. This would, in
effect, require two conductors
for phone jacks (+ and -) and three conductors for mike jacks (audio +,
audio -, and mike key).
Am I on the right track?
Does the cabling from each phones jack have to be run back to the panel?
or can the audio portion
be daisy-chained from jack to jack to minimize cabling?
What cable do you suggest be used for each type of jack?
Thanks for your advice (which I value as always)
Ulrich La Fosse
CH801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld GPS |
>Hi Mr. Nuckolls. I was reading your article on inexpensive GPS options and have
a question for you. I'm not all that familiar with the flexibility of current
handhelds. Is it possible to take a ground based GPS and load an aviation
database into it? I've been searching the web for info. on this and I'm not
finding much specific. For instance, can I take a Lowrance 100 and turn it into
a Lowrance AirMap 100 by a simple software upload?
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.
>-Vince
>winstead(at)cae.wisc.edu
>
I'm not familiar with the radios that support an aviation data base.
The radios I have do not support data bases. They work well. They're
cheap enough that I can carry two of them. I keep the AOPA airports
directory in my flight bag to do pre-flighting and make sure I have the
necessary data in my radios before I leave. It's not hard to add other things
as you go along. I've had one of my receivers for almost three years
now and it only contains about 30 destinations . . . and I got all
the info for entering those destinations free as a part of my AOPA
membership.
Didn't have to pay a dime for updating a LOT of data that I'll never
use. Before you buy anything expensive, go to Walmart sporting goods
and buy a Magellan GPS315. It will cost you about $115. Fly with it
for awhile and see if it doesn't do what you NEED. If you don't
like it, you can always sell it on E-Bay for nearly what you paid for
it. If you DO like it, you can get a second one and fly dual GPS for
under $250.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Four new articles . . . |
I was a good boy today and kept my head down over the keyboard.
I put the finishing touches on four new pieces. One is the
critical review of the Sport Aviation article on terminals.
It's had some significant editing so those of you who have
already seen it might wish to get the latest version.
The MBS4911 trigger diode used in our crowbar OV modules
for lo these many years has become obsolete and hard to find.
All there is left is what distributors have in stock. Last
manufacturing of that part was a couple of years ago.
Sooooo . . . I've updated the roll-your-own OV Module
article with a new design featuring more generic parts.
I've also added a technique for testing the OV module
IN the airplane.
I've published a technique for quickly wiring up simple
to moderately complex electronic circuits. A modernization
of an ancient technique called bread-boarding. I call
it "clad-boarding"
Finally, there's a new pictorial on how to deal with
a bizillion shield grounds in your avionics, instrumentation
and audio systems when you have only a couple of ground
pins in the connectors.
I'd appreciate it if folks reading the AeroElectric-List
would pass the word along to other list servers they
monitor and let folks know that the "What's New?"
box on our font page has all the links.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld GPS |
You can get the aviation data base on a CD that loads into the Magellan (the
CD comes with the connecting cable between you PC and the Magellan). You
are limited to about 18,000 way points so I have only the eastern half of
the US loaded right now. I have a 320 I use in my Cessna 150 tail dragger,
works great. It will be the back up GPS in my RV-8A, primary will be a
GX-60 IFR install.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:07 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: handheld GPS
>Hi Mr. Nuckolls. I was reading your article on inexpensive GPS options and
have a question for you. I'm not all that familiar with the flexibility of
current handhelds. Is it possible to take a ground based GPS and load an
aviation database into it? I've been searching the web for info. on this
and I'm not finding much specific. For instance, can I take a Lowrance 100
and turn it into a Lowrance AirMap 100 by a simple software upload?
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.
>-Vince
>winstead(at)cae.wisc.edu
>
I'm not familiar with the radios that support an aviation data base.
The radios I have do not support data bases. They work well. They're
cheap enough that I can carry two of them. I keep the AOPA airports
directory in my flight bag to do pre-flighting and make sure I have the
necessary data in my radios before I leave. It's not hard to add other
things
as you go along. I've had one of my receivers for almost three years
now and it only contains about 30 destinations . . . and I got all
the info for entering those destinations free as a part of my AOPA
membership.
Didn't have to pay a dime for updating a LOT of data that I'll never
use. Before you buy anything expensive, go to Walmart sporting goods
and buy a Magellan GPS315. It will cost you about $115. Fly with it
for awhile and see if it doesn't do what you NEED. If you don't
like it, you can always sell it on E-Bay for nearly what you paid for
it. If you DO like it, you can get a second one and fly dual GPS for
under $250.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Opps . . didn't finish the job re: |
Protection for big wires
>
>
>
>>I
>>have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
>>something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
>>by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
>
> If it's an impending crash that you're preparing for,
> ALL SWITCHES OFF is a good thing to do before coming
> into contact with the earth.
I was thinking more of the unplanned crash. I probably should have a
look at the NTSB stuff to see if there is any info on ignition
sources in post-crash fires.
> >I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
>>the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
>>the starter will only be live during a start.
>
> If you do this, you'll loose the advantage of tying
> alternator b-lead power feeds to the starter contactor
> and avoid bringing the noisiest wire in the airplane
> into the cockpit for attachment to the bus along with
> your audio system and radios.
I'm having a hard time understand how connecting the alternator wire
to the starter contactor will magically stop the noise on that wire
from making it into the cockpit. We're talking conducted emissions
aren't we?
>
> The power distribution diagrams in Appendix Z
> have evolved over more than 12 years of refining
> ideas and philosophies on owner built and maintained
> (OBAM) aircraft. I won't say that they're infallible
> nor would I suggest that we won't deduce good reasons
> for changes in the future. Given the rich database of
> history about fat wires in little airplanes and our
> understanding of the designed in failure modes of
> certified airplanes (see Chapter 17 of the AeroElectric
> Connection) I would counsel caution about major
> departures the philosophies presently illustrated by those
> drawings.
>
I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I simply
want to understand what assumptions and priorities went into those
designs, so I can decide if they fit my aircraft and mission.
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing wheels and brakes)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
>
>
>>
>>I'm building an RV-8 with an aft mounted battery. I note that the
>>electrical system schematics in Bob's Appendix Z don't show any
>>circuit protection on the big wires going to the starter contactor,
>>and to the main fuse block. Both those wires will be quite long in
>>my installation, and I'm concerned about the lack of protection. I
>>have visions about a major smoke in the cockpit triggered by
>>something chafing one of those cables, or a post crash fire triggered
>>by arcing from the broken, but still live cables.
>>
>>I'm seriously considering mounting the starter contactor aft, beside
>>the main contactor, next to the battery. That way the cable going to
>>the starter will only be live during a start.
>>
>>That still leaves the long cable going to the main fuse block. Would
>>it be practical to either make a large capacity fuselink, or install
>>a large CB or fuse in that line? I would rather deal with an
>>inflight short by seeing everything go black, and then selecting the
>>essential bus alternate feed, than scrambling to throw the battery
>>master in the middle of a major smoke in the cockpit event.
>>
>>Comments?
>
> The interesting thing about FAT wires in an airplane
> is that while they carry the greatest energy and potential
> for current flow, they represent the least hazard with respect
> to electrical faults.
>
> It's very difficult to create a hard fault on one of these
> wires. Study the wire's pathway through the airframe. What
> items of structure or loose systems might come to bear on one
> of these wires with sufficient force to compromise its
> insulation and produce a hard short? If the possiblity
> of such a scenario exists, it's easier to design out the
> possibility than to provide fusible protection for the wire.
>
> If a fault does develop, it's most likely a "soft" fault
> that causes some arcing (battery wires rubbing the edge
> of a lightening hole is a good example) that simply burns
> away the area it touches without bringing down the system.
>
> Over 200,000 airplanes have been built in this country
> without fusible protection of the FAT wires. Like wing
> struts, propeller shafts, flight controls . . . it's
> relatively easy to product very low probability of
> failure by design.
>
> --stuff snipped--
> It's really easy to protect he wire from faults to
> the degree that fuses and/or breakers are not
> necessary.
>
> Bob . . .
>
I'm a neophyte at this electrical system stuff, so please bear with me.
Why are big wires less likely to fault than small wires?
I'm not sure I like the sound of "soft" faults so much, as my current
design has both big cables passing through the main and aft spar
carry through structure. How much aluminum could get burned away in
a "soft" fault? I could perhaps reroute them underneath the canopy
rail, but that could put the "soft" fault close to me or my pax.
Other than having grommets where the cables pass through bulkheads,
and securing them with Adel clamps to keep them away from rudder
cables and the like, is there anything else I should be doing to
minimize the probability of faults?
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing wheels and brakes)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <iflygood(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob, Thanks for the "clad board" idea! Better and cheaper than the boards
full of holes I have always used.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: testing dsub connectors |
One thing I've learned from 30 years of computer stuff:
Paper clips.
Male D-sub pins aren't that hard to probe, but for the females, just stick
an ordinary paper clip into it, and then hang the probe onto it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 12:58 PM
> To: jbr(at)inforum.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: testing dsub connectors
>
>
> III"
>
> >Bob
> >
> >I forgot to ask a question in my message to you a few minutes
> >ago. I just received my multimeter I ordered from you and I have a
> >problem. I am trying to check connections on some wire
> >harnesses with Dsub connectors. The problem is that the probe
> >ends are to large to make contact. Is there a simple trick to
> >accomplish this? I have tried a couple of ideas but they proved
> >awkward.
> >Jim
>
>
> You betcha. Take a peek at this photo:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/photos/clippins.jpg
>
> I very seldom use the probes that come with most
> mulimeters. You can purchase the clips, boots, soft
> rubber insulated test lead wire and banana plugs
> at a local parts store . . . Radio Shack may have
> the stuff, I'll have to look. Build a set of clip
> leads like those shown in the picture.
>
> Then, collect an assortment of male and female
> pins that mate with the connectors used in your
> airplane. When I cut a connector of a disused
> harness, I'll often push out an assortment of
> the pins in salvaged connector. I keep the used
> ones for future testing purposes and save the
> connector body for re-use with fresh pins.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> --------------------------------------------------
> ( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
> ( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
> ( education" Albert Einstein )
> --------------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
>
>
>I'm a neophyte at this electrical system stuff, so please bear with me.
>
>Why are big wires less likely to fault than small wires?
>
>I'm not sure I like the sound of "soft" faults so much, as my current
>design has both big cables passing through the main and aft spar
>carry through structure. How much aluminum could get burned away in
>a "soft" fault? I could perhaps reroute them underneath the canopy
>rail, but that could put the "soft" fault close to me or my pax.
>
>Other than having grommets where the cables pass through bulkheads,
>and securing them with Adel clamps to keep them away from rudder
>cables and the like, is there anything else I should be doing to
>minimize the probability of faults?
The same things you do to make sure your wings and
propellers don't break off. You design in protection
in the risk areas. Adel clamps should support a wire
or wire bundle at every lightening hole. If you're coming
through a tight fitting hole in structure, how about lining
the hole with a hunk of Tygon tubing or other non-conductive
padded barrier?
In all other places you make sure the wires do not touch the
airframe while also lacking support to prevent rubbing the
insulation through. In some instances, I've see rub strips of
thin phenolic or adhesive backed teflon tape used to insure
freedom of chaffing. It's a purely logical design and
fabrication task. You don't have to worry about wires
faulting that cannot be faulted.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protection for big wires |
>
>>
>> If it's an impending crash that you're preparing for,
>> ALL SWITCHES OFF is a good thing to do before coming
>> into contact with the earth.
>
>I was thinking more of the unplanned crash. I probably should have a
>look at the NTSB stuff to see if there is any info on ignition
>sources in post-crash fires.
Accident investigators have told me that in
crashes of bizjets, the incidence of post crash
fire is very low if the battery is ejected from
the wreck. If the battery stays in, the probability
of fire is greater.
So what's the answer? If you fuse a battery
lead to carry starter currents, that's a 200+
amp fuse. If you short a fused line in the
progression of wadding up your airplane, what's
to say that the energy expended in opening
that fuse isn't going to set your bunnies on
fire anyhow?
The incidence of post-crash fire in small aircraft
is very low. Especially if you don't have a header
tank in the fuselage. The root cause of most crashes
is human failure to account for important details
like staying out of bad weather, making sure the
tanks REALLY have the amount of fuel you wished
they had, etc.
The battery is indeed the only source of
intense energy . . . probably much more than
hot components of an engine. If you're really
concerned about this potential source of grief,
the only way to adequately address is with
a g-switch like those used to trigger airbags
in cars. In this case, the switch opens the battery
contactor on impact.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: handheld GPS |
Anybody familiar with the upload protocol to the 315A?
I'd like to find a way to upload the airspace limits, even just as a series of
dots if one can't do lines or circles. I'd also like to know how to selectively
delete or select airports to upload from the CD. If I select "Private airports"
I
get them all, even helo pads at hospitals, etc., which clutters the picture.
Finn
Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> You can get the aviation data base on a CD that loads into the Magellan (the
> CD comes with the connecting cable between you PC and the Magellan). ...
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
There has been previous discussion of using an electric primer as an alternate
fuel source in case of primary system failure, using a needle valve for fine tuning
the fuel flow to a specific power setting. Anybody know of a source for
such a needle valve?
Also, I'm in need of a battery for my RV-6 project. I don't want to use the standard
Concorde RG-25 (too big, heavy, expensive) or the Odyssey PC600 (too expensive).
Any leads to appropriate substitutes most welcomed (specific makes
& models, best places to buy info would be great).
This is day night VFR+ ship.
Thanks, Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
> Also, I'm in need of a battery for my RV-6 project. I don't want to use
the
> standard Concorde RG-25 (too big, heavy, expensive) or the Odyssey PC600
(too
> expensive). Any leads to appropriate substitutes most welcomed (specific
> makes & models, best places to buy info would be great).
>
> This is day night VFR+ ship.
>
> Thanks, Rob.
Rob, I bought mine from batteries.com, they have a 18AH RG battery
(powersonic) for 62 bucks, quick delivery too.
Kevin -9A wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
I just got an 18AH Powersonic from www.alliedelec.com for $48. They have
26AH for $79.
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=18.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
>
>
> > Also, I'm in need of a battery for my RV-6 project. I don't want to use
> the
> > standard Concorde RG-25 (too big, heavy, expensive) or the Odyssey PC600
> (too
> > expensive). Any leads to appropriate substitutes most welcomed
(specific
> > makes & models, best places to buy info would be great).
> >
> > This is day night VFR+ ship.
> >
> > Thanks, Rob.
>
> Rob, I bought mine from batteries.com, they have a 18AH RG battery
> (powersonic) for 62 bucks, quick delivery too.
> Kevin -9A wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
Is this line of batteries of the RG type?
scot
>
>I just got an 18AH Powersonic from www.alliedelec.com for $48. They have
>26AH for $79.
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=18.pdf
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Im7shannon(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:36 PM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
>
>
> >
> >
> > > Also, I'm in need of a battery for my RV-6 project. I don't want to use
> > the
> > > standard Concorde RG-25 (too big, heavy, expensive) or the Odyssey PC600
> > (too
> > > expensive). Any leads to appropriate substitutes most welcomed
>(specific
> > > makes & models, best places to buy info would be great).
> > >
> > > This is day night VFR+ ship.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Rob.
> >
> > Rob, I bought mine from batteries.com, they have a 18AH RG battery
> > (powersonic) for 62 bucks, quick delivery too.
> > Kevin -9A wiring
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
>
>Is this line of batteries of the RG type?
>
>scot
>
>
>>
>>I just got an 18AH Powersonic from www.alliedelec.com for $48. They have
>>26AH for $79.
>>
>>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=18.pdf
>>
>>
Yes, this is a recombinant-gas or valve-regulated-
sealed-lead-acid or starved-electrolyte battery.
It is NOT a gel-cell. The battery is most suited
for use in airplanes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Heisler" <majh(at)islandtelecom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
ROB , for a battery i would suggest buying from any automotive shop or
battery shop an battery for a small diesel tractor/lawn mower. the ones i
have used are rated at 300 cold cranking amps are about 5 inches wide by 7
inches long by 6 inches high. i get the type with the top terminals that
have a hole thru it , this way you can bolt the cables to it. check to get
a high cold cranking amps. some that are less than 250 cca did not work
for me.
i have used this in my rv-4 , harmon rocket and just bought one for my
lancair.
in regards to the fuel primer , what do you mean by primary system failure?
is this where you would be using a fuel flow meter with the vane paddles in
it ? they do warn to have a bypass in a system like this. i have used
two different types of electric primers that i put together , worked great
and were cheap. if you want i could tell you how i did it .........marty
-----Original Message-----
From: racker(at)rmci.net <racker(at)rmci.net>
Date: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
>
>
>There has been previous discussion of using an electric primer as an
alternate fuel source in case of primary system failure, using a needle
valve for fine tuning the fuel flow to a specific power setting. Anybody
know of a source for such a needle valve?
>
>Also, I'm in need of a battery for my RV-6 project. I don't want to use
the standard Concorde RG-25 (too big, heavy, expensive) or the Odyssey PC600
(too expensive). Any leads to appropriate substitutes most welcomed
(specific makes & models, best places to buy info would be great).
>
>This is day night VFR+ ship.
>
>Thanks, Rob.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
>
>
> >Other than having grommets where the cables pass through bulkheads,
>>and securing them with Adel clamps to keep them away from rudder
>>cables and the like, is there anything else I should be doing to
>>minimize the probability of faults?
>
> The same things you do to make sure your wings and
> propellers don't break off. You design in protection
> in the risk areas. Adel clamps should support a wire
> or wire bundle at every lightening hole. If you're coming
> through a tight fitting hole in structure, how about lining
> the hole with a hunk of Tygon tubing or other non-conductive
> padded barrier?
>
> In all other places you make sure the wires do not touch the
> airframe while also lacking support to prevent rubbing the
> insulation through. In some instances, I've see rub strips of
> thin phenolic or adhesive backed teflon tape used to insure
> freedom of chaffing. It's a purely logical design and
> fabrication task. You don't have to worry about wires
> faulting that cannot be faulted.
>
>
I was planning on using plastic snap bushings at each bulkhead
(roughly 20 inches apart), with Adel clamps halfway between
bulkheads, or as required to keep away from the rudder cables, etc.
Do I also need an Adel clamp at each bulkhead pass through, or is the
snap bushing alone adequate?
If I understand you correctly, I need to ensure the cable cannot rub
against the skin, unless I provide additional protection against
rubbing. Hmm. The routing I was planning on would have the cable
running either against the bottom skin, or against a vertical rib.
I'll need to fudge things a bit if this is not acceptable.
I have made my floors removable, so I can at least inspect in the
area the cables will be passing through.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing wheels and brakes)
Ottawa, Canada
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Joining a bunch of wires |
I have 8 lighted engine instruments and am wondering
how to route the lighting wires. What's the best way
to join 8 wires into 1 for routing to either ground or
the fuse panel? Would it be to crimp ring terminals
on all of them and tie them together with a screw, or
is there a type of butt splice where you can put 8
20awg wires in one end and 1 wire in the other end?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob A" <racker(at)rmci.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
First off, thanks to all who replied so far (and to those following)...your
feedback is most appreciated. I am going to order one of those $48
Powersonic's Gary .
> in regards to the fuel primer , what do you mean by primary
> system failure?
> is this where you would be using a fuel flow meter with the vane
> paddles in
> it ? they do warn to have a bypass in a system like this. i have used
> two different types of electric primers that i put together , worked great
> and were cheap. if you want i could tell you how i did it .........marty
I meant if my fuel sensor (typical Floscan unit) or carb gives out. I have
my electric primer plumbed before these two units (tanks->tank
selector->fuel pump->gascalator->"Tee" fitting going to primer valve & fuel
flow sensor->carb). Idea being you could feed the cylinders off the primer
valve directly.
My install manual did not indicate the need for a bypass, explanation
following stated that if the vanes stop fuel flow is not impeded enough to
stop the required fuel flow. Is this an accurate statement? Please share
your bypass design, I am alway open to ideas which avoid unwanted terra
firma contact .
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining a bunch of wires |
Andrew,
I just finished wiring the panel lights on my RV-6 (7 post lights and 4
internally lit gauges). I put ring terminals on all the leads and attached them
to a terminal block (from Radio Shack) mounted on the subpanel. It makes a neat
installation, and will be easy to remove and troubleshoot individual components.
Good Luck,
Danny Kight
Anderson, SC
EAA Chapter 249 VP
Sonerai IILT (flying)
RV-6 (wiring, wiring, wiring...)
Andrew Larkin on 03/12/2001 09:57:58 PM
I have 8 lighted engine instruments and am wondering
how to route the lighting wires. What's the best way
to join 8 wires into 1 for routing to either ground or
the fuse panel? Would it be to crimp ring terminals
on all of them and tie them together with a screw, or
is there a type of butt splice where you can put 8
20awg wires in one end and 1 wire in the other end?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Joining a bunch of wires |
Same problem here guys, Im installing my uMonitor, there are 3 different
areas where several wires have to wind up in one little molex pin. I bought 2
of those terminal blocks from Radio Shack, they are really heavy, especially
when you add 30 ring terminals. I am thinking about just soldering them all
together on to one wire, anyone else done this?
Kevin -9A
Im a E-lectrikian now unkle Jed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Joining a bunch of wires |
>
>I have 8 lighted engine instruments and am wondering
>how to route the lighting wires. What's the best way
>to join 8 wires into 1 for routing to either ground or
>the fuse panel? Would it be to crimp ring terminals
>on all of them and tie them together with a screw, or
>is there a type of butt splice where you can put 8
>20awg wires in one end and 1 wire in the other end?
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/minibus.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
>
>
>My install manual did not indicate the need for a bypass, explanation
>following stated that if the vanes stop fuel flow is not impeded enough to
>stop the required fuel flow. Is this an accurate statement? Please share
>your bypass design, I am alway open to ideas which avoid unwanted terra
>firma contact .
>
>Rob.
IF there is doubt about this, DON'T take the word of
the OBAM aviation populace at large as the best and
final word. The #1 source for information is a phone
call away. Talk to the folks who build the thing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining a bunch of wires |
> I have 8 lighted engine instruments and am wondering
> how to route the lighting wires. What's the best way
> to join 8 wires into 1 for routing to either ground or
> the fuse panel? Would it be to crimp ring terminals
> on all of them and tie them together with a screw, or
> is there a type of butt splice where you can put 8
> 20awg wires in one end and 1 wire in the other end?
See http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/Mvc-454x.jpg for an implementation of
Electric Bob's single point ground system. If you gang your grounds then if
you the ganged wire connection fails you lose them all. That said, I did
gang post light grounds into pairs, but nothing else, every instrument etc.
has it's own ground wire.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, final assembly
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit protection for big wires |
>
>
>I was planning on using plastic snap bushings at each bulkhead
>(roughly 20 inches apart), with Adel clamps halfway between
>bulkheads, or as required to keep away from the rudder cables, etc.
>Do I also need an Adel clamp at each bulkhead pass through, or is the
>snap bushing alone adequate?
Proximity of wire to aluminum with the greatest risk is
not SURFACE but EDGES and/or CORNERS. Cessna has used an
insulated support clamp at each lighting hole were the
wire comes through. There is a special product from Adel
and others designed to clip to the edge of a hole and
maintain spacing of a wire bundle or tubing that passes
through. I've not seen these in catalogs catering to the
OBAM aviation community. You can fabricate a right-
angle bracket on which the plain-vanilla MS21919 clamps
can be used. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/techbits/holewire.jpg
>If I understand you correctly, I need to ensure the cable cannot rub
>against the skin, unless I provide additional protection against
>rubbing. Hmm. The routing I was planning on would have the cable
>running either against the bottom skin, or against a vertical rib.
>I'll need to fudge things a bit if this is not acceptable.
If wires are well supported through lightening holes
you generally need a lot (perhaps too much) slack
for the wire bundle to sag to the skin. "Rubbing
against skin" is not a BIG deal for Tefzel wire and
its cousins. However, add some oily dirt to serve
as a grinding compound you can abrade the insulation
away . . . but it generally takes years.
Rub strips on the inside of the skin may be preferable
to drilling hole for more mechanical support. A thin
sheet of fishpaper, phenolic, rubber gasket material,
etc will add protection in the very few places you might
need it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Isaacs" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
Are saying or recommending not to buy a gel cell.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
>
> >
> >Is this line of batteries of the RG type?
> >
> >scot
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I just got an 18AH Powersonic from www.alliedelec.com for $48. They
have
> >>26AH for $79.
> >>
> >>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=18.pdf
> >>
> >>
>
> Yes, this is a recombinant-gas or valve-regulated-
> sealed-lead-acid or starved-electrolyte battery.
> It is NOT a gel-cell. The battery is most suited
> for use in airplanes.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel & Batteries |
>
>Are saying or recommending not to buy a gel cell.
Yes, you don't want a REAL gel-cell. Their
performance is worse in cold weather than
a flooded battery.
Having said that, be aware that many battery sellers
mistakenly call the RG batteries "gel-cells" . . .
very few companies still make a true gel-cell
battery.
You'll need a 17 a.h. recombinant gas battery which can
be found on the following links. These batteries can be purchased
from a variety of battery specialty shops. We have some little
convenience store sized Battery Patrols around Wichita that handle
these batteries for $60-70 each.
Powersonic: PS-12180
http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html
Hawker: Check out the first 6 batteries on this page . . .
http://www.hepi.com/products/genesis/genprod.htm
Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
Yuasa-Exide: Check out the NP18-12B at this site . . .
http://www.yuasa-exide.com/np-prod.html
Handle these like any other lead-acid battery. Bus volts
no less than 13.8 - 14.2 is about ideal - no more than 14.6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <alkritzm(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Joining a bunch of wires |
5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 03/14/2001 07:16:41 AM
Randy,
I agree that one ground for each instrument is ideal, but did you run a
separate fuse for each instrument also? My thinking is one fuse one ground
and have a plan in case either one stops the equipment from working.
Just a thought.
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
RV-8, just starting wiring
If you gang your grounds then if
you the ganged wire connection fails you lose them all. That said, I did
gang post light grounds into pairs, but nothing else, every instrument etc.
has it's own ground wire.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, final assembly
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
Thread-Index: AcCsbQ8kHpD1RlkYRju/M2GqY3VecwAJDo6g
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Bob,
How much of a real-world difference in cranking power is there between
the 17 ah batteries and the RG-25, which puts out 25 ah? I have a RG-25
in my RV-6 and in cold conditions I find the battery barely sufficient
to crank a cold engine. I have been told that the Sky-Tec starter is a
very high-draw starter compared to other starters (like the B&C). I
found that leaving a small ceramic space heater in the cockpit overnight
the day before a flight makes a world of difference in cranking power.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining a bunch of wires |
> I agree that one ground for each instrument is ideal, but did you run a
> separate fuse for each instrument also? My thinking is one fuse one
ground
> and have a plan in case either one stops the equipment from working.
>
> Just a thought.
> Alan Kritzman
> Cedar Rapids, IA
> RV-8, just starting wiring
Alan,
Good point, and yes I have a separate breaker for each instrument. That
said, ganging engine instruments onto one fuse and one ground is not
unreasonable because it is not "critcal to the safe continuation of the
flight". Agreed that my solution is probably overkill, but I wanted to be
able to identify and isolate any problems quickly and easily.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, finishing details
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcculleyja(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Recently Posted OV Schematic |
Bob,
The potentiometer P/N 3292W501 needs to be 3292W-501 to find it on the
Digi-Key website.
The resistor shown in the schematic just below the pot is listed as 6.04k,
but the Digi-Key P/N says 60.4k. Since this is part of the voltage divider
made up of two resistors and the pot, my calculation indicates that a value
of 60.4k would be correct and the 6.04 is probably a typo. Please confirm
and maybe issue a clarification, if so, to help others who may buy parts
elsewhere rather than use the Digi-Key number.
All prices are shown on the Digi-Key website except for the transistors,
2N3904 and 2N3906. They are $0.26 each, per customer rep at 1-800-344-4539.
Thanks.
Jim McCulley
mcculleyja(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcculleyja(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14 |
Bob,
With respect to the discussions on this list a few weeks ago and your posted
article about PM starters versus field-wound starters, I would like to point
out a design factor not mentioned in those discussions and get your comments
as to why this shouldn't negate the need to wire the PM starters as you have
advocated, using the S704-1 starter run-on relay, shown on Figure Z-14.
The PM Skytec starter, as you know, has a conventional dual winding solenoid
(pull-in plus hold-in windings) but unlike the field-wound starters, the
reverse current flow generated by the PM starter during its spin-down (after
starter switch release) does not follow opposing paths through the two
solenoid coils ( as is the case with field -wound starters wherein immediate
cancellation of the magnetic fields occurs and thus drops out the solenoid
instantaneously). Instead, the generated spin-down current in the PM starter
continues to hold the solenoid activated and thus the starter pinion engaged
to the ring gear for a period of time until the kinetic/electrical energy is
expended.
This would appear to cause undue mechanical stresses on the starter motor,
housing, pinion gear, ring gear, or some combination, EXCEPT for one
consideration. The Skytec PM starter (and maybe others) has a built-in
overrunning clutch that allows the pinion gear to remain harmlessly engaged
during all or part of the spin-down period while the engine accelerates the
ring gear and the still-engaged pinion gear to a higher RPM than the
decelerating starter shaft. The presence of this feature can be detected by
using one's finger to rotate the pinion on the starter shaft in the normal
starting direction and observe the freedom to turn in that direction but not
in the opposite direction.
Because the overrunning clutch feature is incorporated, this should
adequately negate the mechanical stress concerns during run-on and is
probably the main reason the FAA certification criteria allows this starter
to be approved for certified Lycoming engines (and probably other makes)
without need to alter the airframe wiring system.
With the above in mind, I see no reason to not wire the Skytec PM starter in
the conventional manner using a standard firewall mounted (high-current rated
) starter contactor to supply current via #2 or #4 AWG to the main starter
terminal and leave the manufacturer's small jumper wire in place from the
main terminal to the spade terminal on the solenoid housing. The
conventional firewall mounted starter contactor is still activated in the
normal manner by a few amps (< 1 to 3 or so) through the cockpit toggle or
key-operated starter switch, and in turn, deactivates essentially immediately
upon switch release by the operator (and assuming there is a diode across the
contactor coil).
IMHO, the fact that this conventional scheme allows the mounting of the high
current rated starter contactor on the firewall and only requires a single #2
or #4 wire to traverse the engine compartment to the starter and that this
wire is NOT hot except during the actual starting process, this is safer than
your alternate scheme. The alternate scheme that your schematic suggests
leaves that #2 or #4 wire to the starter hot at all times (when the Master
switch is on) so that when the starter solenoid is separately activated by
the operator for engine starting via the S704-1 relay, there is already power
available to the starter solenoid contactor and motor windings. It may be
debatable whether having this heavy wire passing through the engine
compartment in a hot status during flight is a significant added risk, but it
seems to me that,all other things being equal, it would be preferable to not
create this hot condition.
As a final point, do you believe that all the certificated aircraft/engine
installations using the FAA approved Skytec starters, as bolt-on replacements
without any wiring changes, is creating a hazard that should justify that
their wiring be modified per the Figure Z-14 drawing?
What am I missing in this total subject? I look forward to your comments and
any additional enlightment.
Jim McCulley
mcculleyja(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: AEC questions |
Hi Bob, I feel bad asking you questions because I see everybody keeps you
busy, but -
ref fig Z-14
- batteries are grounded to G2 (firewall) instead of G1 (engine) as
recommended in chapter 5. Is this a typo or does it make much difference?
- why rectifier diode array instead of single diode between busses (or in my
case, for charging aux bat from alt)?
- aux battery charged thru low voltage module?
Thanks again, Gary K.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14 |
>The alternate scheme that your schematic suggests
> leaves that #2 or #4 wire to the starter hot at all times
I don't see this.
I wire mine as per Bob's suggestion like this.
Battery plus to master via #2 wire
From the master relay to the alternator via #2 wire
From alternator to shunt via a 6" piece of #2 (the shunt is bolted under the
engine in front)
From shunt to starter via a 6" piece of #2 wire
From starter to battery negative via #2 wire.
I don't have any more "always hot" wires going through the firewall or under
the cowl than wiring the traditional way.
>As a final point, do you believe that all the certificated aircraft/engine
>installations using the FAA approved Skytec starters, as bolt-on
replacements
>without any wiring changes, is creating a hazard that should justify that
>their wiring be modified per the Figure Z-14 drawing?
I called the Skytec tech support and spoke to a fellow about the two
wirings. He said the preferred way is the way Bob suggests but because they
wanted to sell this starter to the certified crowd, they had to make it
compatible with the conventional installation of these aircraft. I had my
plane wired with the traditional starter contactor and tore it out. I like
the relay method better.
Ross
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Charging |
Bob,
Enjoy reading your list.
I have a Rotax 912 in a CH-701 and have had no problems with the
electrical system in 200 hrs. I recently turned the battery master off
while the engine was idling at 2000 RPM and found-out I lost all
electrical power. My question is why does the the alternartor kick-off
without the battery in the circuit? Does it need battery power to
produce? Was the RPM too low?
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jordan_mel(at)ti.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starter contactor and Essential Buss Feed |
07:53:18 AM
Bob,
I am using a starter contactor that has a fourth terminal that is normally
used to power a 12 volt ignition circuit during cranking on an automobile.
This terminal is isolated from either the starter or battery terminals when
the contactor is not energized. It is my plan to use this terminal to
drive the starter solenoid, allowing the starter contactor to serve both
the role of eliminating the "always hot" 2AWG wire to the starter and also
isolate the starter motor from the starter solenoid when the start switch
is opened. Are you aware of any reason why this configuration may not
work, and do you know if this contact can handle the current loads for the
starter solenoid?
Switching topics, in your drawings for essential buss wiring, you show
the use of a diode bridge to isolate the essential buss from the main buss.
I note that you feed the power from the main buss to the essential buss by
a single connection to one of the "AC" terminals on the diode bridge.
This puts all the current through a single diode in the bridge. Why not
connect the feed the power from the main buss to both "AC" terminals on the
diode bridge and thus, through two diodes in parallel? Would this not
improve the current handling capacity of the bridge as well as reduce the
voltage drop across it?
I would appreciate any comments on these ideas.
Thanks,
Mel Jordan
Tucson, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Begnaud" <Shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Charging |
Carl,
Something is not wired correctly, my 912 continues to run when master is
turned off.
Cliff
Kitfox V
www.barefootpilot.com
>
> Bob,
> Enjoy reading your list.
> I have a Rotax 912 in a CH-701 and have had no problems with the
> electrical system in 200 hrs. I recently turned the battery master off
> while the engine was idling at 2000 RPM and found-out I lost all
> electrical power. My question is why does the the alternartor kick-off
> without the battery in the circuit? Does it need battery power to
> produce? Was the RPM too low?
> Carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Charging System |
pqcorp.net>
Hi Bob,
Wonder if you could answer a question or two for me?
I just installed a set of Whelen nav/strobe lights on my 'Fox. I know the
things draw about 7A each so I'd expect to see about 14A total draw with
them both on. With my nav/com and transponder, are they going to be too
much to run simultaneously with the standard Rotax voltage regulator? I
understand the stock regulator is good for around 17A or so....
Hmmm . . . do you have an voltammeter that you can use
to verify some things? The nav light bulbs on a 3-light
system are normally about 2A each. When you put a white
light on each wingtip, I'm not sure what the total does.
Do they use the same size bulb for white as for the colors?
If so, the total nav lights system draw goes up to as
the 7-8 amp range.
Strobes specs generally talk about maximum current values
so that you can size wire and fuses. The average draw
is somewhat lower. Each time the tubes fire, the current
peaks up as the capacitors are recharged and drops to some
much lower value just before the tubes fire again. One
of these days I'm going to get access to an airplane
and make some measurements.
Anybody out there got a Whelen system not yet bolted to
the airplane that I could use for some bench testing?
It would be a good thing to have hard data to publish.
I'd pay shipping both ways . . .
The reason I ask this is because I'm seeing a drop in my bus voltage in
cruise to about 12V and it appears it's taking everything the regulator has
got to provide the current. It doesn't appear to be discharging in cruise
as shown on my ammeter but I'm wondering if the battery is charging.
Certainly, when I throttle back, I go to about 10A of discharge.
The 17A output from the Rotax system can be achieved only
a higher RPMs . . . The nav light system is the most
energy hungry system on your airplane . . 6-8 amps continuous
draw for the duration of flight.
Do you have an alternator loadmeter? This instrument is
a VERY valuable tool in deducing the proper operation
or failure of an alternator. You say that the bus voltage
is only 12v in cruise . . . this should be 14.0 to 14.5
volts. How good is the voltmeter you are using . . . is
it digital?
I do have a weak battery that I'm replacing this evening so I think that's
some of my problem. I'm concerned, however, with potentially blowing my
regulator with the high current draw. I'm wondering what everyone else does
as I've seen a lot of 'Foxes with nav/strobe light combinations....
Intuitively, it is possible to support the combination
of equipment you've cited. Assuming 7.5A on nav lights
and 3A average on strobes leaves you about 7A for other
things. You can run a lot of panel mounted goodies with
7A . . . the problem is that you will have NO headroom
for recharging a battery.
Could it be that your battery is "weak" for not having
been properly charged? Have you put a good voltage controlled
charger on it to see how much snort it's willing to take
in?
It may be that if you started out with a battery
that is truly charged to capacity -AND- you don't
turn on nav lights until beginning of takeoff roll
and shut them off before turning off the active
on arrival, you can offset the PM alternator's
inherent weakness for supporting system loads at
anything other than cruise RPM.
If your battery is simply run down then it's possible
that your alternator is just fine but can't step up
to the task of running EVERYTHING -and- recharging
the battery.
We'll still need some good data to deduce the real
reason. Alternator loadmeter and digitally accurate
voltage measurements would be helpful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Callahan, Ted" <Ted.Callahan(at)compaq.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Rotax 912 Charging System |
Thanks for the reply Bob. My first statement was misleading. What I was
trying (unsuccessfully) to say was that my nav lights will draw around 7A
total and my strobes draw a max of ~7A for a 14A total. I understand your
comment about the average of the strobes being around 3A....
My battery was weak well before I installed the lights. It's been in the
plane for at least a couple of years and doesn't seem to want to take a good
full charge. The battery alone seemed to be drawing around 5 amps right
after cranking pretty hard and it didn't seem to get much better (down to
~4A after takeoff) so I think there's probably a cell or two going bad.
I'm thinking the scenario is as follows (I'd appreciate if you'd let me know
if you agree or disagree). I started out cranking the battery hard to get
my engine started. The battery was drawing around 4 or 5A to begin with.
After takeoff, while the battery was still drawing upwards of 4A, I flipped
on the strobes, adding about 3A or so and everything was still OK as I was
continuing to indicate a positive charge of 3A or so and 14 volts on the
bus. When I flipped on the nav lights, the ammeter continued to show a very
slight positive charge (but due to meter tolerance could have actually been
a discharge) and the line voltage started to slowly bleed off to 12V. At
this point, I probably had a total load of 3A to the battery, 7A to the nav
lts, and at least 3A to the strobes plus the current required by my gauges,
nav/com, and transponder which very easily could account for another 3 or 4A
for a total of around 17A which is the max output from my regulator.
Therefore, I'm thinking with a healthy charged battery that isn't
significantly depleted after a start, I should be marginal but OK.
Otherwise, I think I need to let the battery recharge to a reasonable level
(and the charge current drop) before I fire up the NAV lights.
The 912 Rotax has the built in magneto-generator that feeds a regulator.
I'm a little concerned about stressing the Ducati regulator by drawing max
current. What's your feeling on that subject? I also think I should add
the crowbar OV protector just in case the regulator fails. There's a 35A
breaker just beyond the regulator that provides DC to everything else.
Couldn't I just add the protector at that point so it would trip the 35A
breaker and isolate everything south of the regulator?
Again, thanks for the response!
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Charging System
Hi Bob,
Wonder if you could answer a question or two for me?
I just installed a set of Whelen nav/strobe lights on my 'Fox. I know the
things draw about 7A each so I'd expect to see about 14A total draw with
them both on. With my nav/com and transponder, are they going to be too
much to run simultaneously with the standard Rotax voltage regulator? I
understand the stock regulator is good for around 17A or so....
Hmmm . . . do you have an voltammeter that you can use
to verify some things? The nav light bulbs on a 3-light
system are normally about 2A each. When you put a white
light on each wingtip, I'm not sure what the total does.
Do they use the same size bulb for white as for the colors?
If so, the total nav lights system draw goes up to as
the 7-8 amp range.
Strobes specs generally talk about maximum current values
so that you can size wire and fuses. The average draw
is somewhat lower. Each time the tubes fire, the current
peaks up as the capacitors are recharged and drops to some
much lower value just before the tubes fire again. One
of these days I'm going to get access to an airplane
and make some measurements.
Anybody out there got a Whelen system not yet bolted to
the airplane that I could use for some bench testing?
It would be a good thing to have hard data to publish.
I'd pay shipping both ways . . .
The reason I ask this is because I'm seeing a drop in my bus voltage in
cruise to about 12V and it appears it's taking everything the regulator has
got to provide the current. It doesn't appear to be discharging in cruise
as shown on my ammeter but I'm wondering if the battery is charging.
Certainly, when I throttle back, I go to about 10A of discharge.
The 17A output from the Rotax system can be achieved only
a higher RPMs . . . The nav light system is the most
energy hungry system on your airplane . . 6-8 amps continuous
draw for the duration of flight.
Do you have an alternator loadmeter? This instrument is
a VERY valuable tool in deducing the proper operation
or failure of an alternator. You say that the bus voltage
is only 12v in cruise . . . this should be 14.0 to 14.5
volts. How good is the voltmeter you are using . . . is
it digital?
I do have a weak battery that I'm replacing this evening so I think that's
some of my problem. I'm concerned, however, with potentially blowing my
regulator with the high current draw. I'm wondering what everyone else does
as I've seen a lot of 'Foxes with nav/strobe light combinations....
Intuitively, it is possible to support the combination
of equipment you've cited. Assuming 7.5A on nav lights
and 3A average on strobes leaves you about 7A for other
things. You can run a lot of panel mounted goodies with
7A . . . the problem is that you will have NO headroom
for recharging a battery.
Could it be that your battery is "weak" for not having
been properly charged? Have you put a good voltage controlled
charger on it to see how much snort it's willing to take
in?
It may be that if you started out with a battery
that is truly charged to capacity -AND- you don't
turn on nav lights until beginning of takeoff roll
and shut them off before turning off the active
on arrival, you can offset the PM alternator's
inherent weakness for supporting system loads at
anything other than cruise RPM.
If your battery is simply run down then it's possible
that your alternator is just fine but can't step up
to the task of running EVERYTHING -and- recharging
the battery.
We'll still need some good data to deduce the real
reason. Alternator loadmeter and digitally accurate
voltage measurements would be helpful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14 |
I forgot to include the 80 amp fuse that is between the alternator and the
shunt.
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14
>
> >The alternate scheme that your schematic suggests
> > leaves that #2 or #4 wire to the starter hot at all times
>
> I don't see this.
>
> I wire mine as per Bob's suggestion like this.
> Battery plus to master via #2 wire
> From the master relay to the alternator via #2 wire
> From alternator to shunt via a 6" piece of #2 (the shunt is bolted under
the
> engine in front)
> From shunt to starter via a 6" piece of #2 wire
> From starter to battery negative via #2 wire.
>
> I don't have any more "always hot" wires going through the firewall or
under
> the cowl than wiring the traditional way.
>
>
> >As a final point, do you believe that all the certificated
aircraft/engine
> >installations using the FAA approved Skytec starters, as bolt-on
> replacements
> >without any wiring changes, is creating a hazard that should justify that
> >their wiring be modified per the Figure Z-14 drawing?
>
>
> I called the Skytec tech support and spoke to a fellow about the two
> wirings. He said the preferred way is the way Bob suggests but because
they
> wanted to sell this starter to the certified crowd, they had to make it
> compatible with the conventional installation of these aircraft. I had my
> plane wired with the traditional starter contactor and tore it out. I
like
> the relay method better.
>
> Ross
> RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: AEC questions |
>
>Hi Bob, I feel bad asking you questions because I see everybody keeps you
>busy, but -
>
>
>ref fig Z-14
>- batteries are grounded to G2 (firewall) instead of G1 (engine) as
>recommended in chapter 5. Is this a typo or does it make much difference?
When chapter 5 gets revised next, the ground will be moved
to the firewall. Engine grounding of the battery is technically
elegant but not practical in real life. Ultimate outcome
in terms of performance is unaffected so go for PRACTICAL.
>- why rectifier diode array instead of single diode between busses (or in my
>case, for charging aux bat from alt)?
What other diode would you suggest? All single diodes
suited for carrying current in the range of interest
come in a package that looks like a 10-32 or 1/4-28
bolt with a solder terminal on top. While these devices
are electrically suited to the task, mounting them
is a pain in the whatsit . . . if you need any degree
of heat sinking, the critter needs a bevy of insulating
hardware and special attention to mounding for heat
flow while maintaining electrical isolation. One connection
MUST be soldered, the other can still be accomplished
with a PIDG terminal albeit a ring terminal instead of
a Fast-On.
Considering the diode bridge: Yes, it has 3 diodes that
we don't need but they don't get in the way either. Connections
are made with my favorite terminals, Fast-Ons. If you
have a hefty e-bus draw, heat sinking is a matter of
bolting down to a handy metallic surface with a screw
through the bolt hold provided. The package is internally
insulated so there are no concerns for electrical isolaton.
No special brackets are needed . . . just bolt the critter
down where ever.
I know the selection of this device seems odd at first
but once you trade practical considerations against
the single stud mounted diode alternative, the best
choice is clear.
>- aux battery charged thru low voltage module?
>
I presume you're asking about the automatic switchover
feature shown in some of our power distribution
diagrams.
The autoswitch feature is a sort of gee-whiz option.
The most important feature of any low voltage warning
system is TIMELY NOTIFICATION OF ALTERNATOR FAILURE.
If the light comes on at the right time, then it's
not critical that the aux battery be AUTOMATICALLY
disconnected from the bus . . . simple operation
of the AUX BATTERY MASTER by the pilot does the
same thing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
>
>Bob,
>
>How much of a real-world difference in cranking power is there between
>the 17 ah batteries and the RG-25, which puts out 25 ah? I have a RG-25
>in my RV-6 and in cold conditions I find the battery barely sufficient
>to crank a cold engine. I have been told that the Sky-Tec starter is a
>very high-draw starter compared to other starters (like the B&C). I
>found that leaving a small ceramic space heater in the cockpit overnight
>the day before a flight makes a world of difference in cranking power.
Well, one has half again more energy storage capacity
than the other. Sooooo . . . all other things being
equal you can run e-bus goodies 1.5x as long with the
bigger battery.
Now, if you're clever and willing to carefully select
the list of goodies needed to get the airport in sight
sans alternator, then 17 a.h. can save considerable
pounds and $ over the larger feller.
Cranking ability is almost a separate issue. There
are 1.5 a.h. batteries with enough snort to crank and
engine. Only enough energy to do ONE cranking cycle
but the initial cranking RPMs are quite good. Some
certified ships upsized the flooded battery from
a more common 24 a.h. to 32 a.h. to offset losses
in long wiring when the battery was located back in
the tail.
The there are three secrets to success with small
batteries. Keeping resistance in the cranking path
small, low resistance and figuring out ways to
reduce the resistance in your ships fat wire wiring.
A large battery of the same technology will have
a lower resistance than a smaller . . . but in terms
of overall performance, some models of Piper would be
about 20 pounds ahead of the game to mount a 17 a.h.
battery on the firewall and trash the 35 a.h. battery
installation in the tail.
If you're suffering lackluster cranking with a new
RG battery of any capacity, I'd certainly look at
intervening wiring and contactors first. Don't overlook
the ground path too. You can use a voltmeter to
measure the positive and negative path drops during
engine cranking. The ground path should be well under
0.8 volt. The positive path should be under 1.5 volts.
Or build a millivoltmeter as discussed in the article
in the chapter on grounding in the AeroElectric Connection.
Here we're looking for path resistances on the order of
1.6 milliohms in the ground path and 3.5 milliohms
in the positive path.
What size wire is used to do all the cranking path
current in your airplane and where is the battery
located?
Deducing and fixing the cause excessive path loss
is the minimum weight, minimum dollar approach to
a solution.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter contactor and Essential |
Buss Feed
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I am using a starter contactor that has a fourth terminal that is normally
>used to power a 12 volt ignition circuit during cranking on an automobile.
>This terminal is isolated from either the starter or battery terminals when
>the contactor is not energized. It is my plan to use this terminal to
>drive the starter solenoid, allowing the starter contactor to serve both
>the role of eliminating the "always hot" 2AWG wire to the starter and also
>isolate the starter motor from the starter solenoid when the start switch
>is opened. Are you aware of any reason why this configuration may not
>work, and do you know if this contact can handle the current loads for the
>starter solenoid?
I think that would work okay.
>Switching topics, in your drawings for essential buss wiring, you show
>the use of a diode bridge to isolate the essential buss from the main buss.
>I note that you feed the power from the main buss to the essential buss by
>a single connection to one of the "AC" terminals on the diode bridge.
>This puts all the current through a single diode in the bridge. Why not
>connect the feed the power from the main buss to both "AC" terminals on the
>diode bridge and thus, through two diodes in parallel? Would this not
>improve the current handling capacity of the bridge as well as reduce the
>voltage drop across it?
Voltage drop in diodes is a matter of the physics of creating
an electronic check valve . . . it's a relatively constant
voltage irrespective of size of diode or the current being
passed through it. Paralleling two diodes will not decrease
voltage drop in any material way. Further, diodes connected
in parallel do not share a load well. It wouldn't hurt to
use two diodes in parallel as long as your current draw does
not exceed the rating of ONE diode . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | 912/914 Alternator Failure? |
> Bob,
> Enjoy reading your list.
> I have a Rotax 912 in a CH-701 and have had no problems with the
> electrical system in 200 hrs. I recently turned the battery master off
> while the engine was idling at 2000 RPM and found-out I lost all
> electrical power. My question is why does the the alternartor kick-off
> without the battery in the circuit? Does it need battery power to
> produce? Was the RPM too low?
> Carl
>
>
The last time I checked, the rectifier/regulator needs a
battery to come on line initially but it should continue
to deliver with the battery off line IF you have installed
the recommended filter capacitor. This capacitor behaves
like a low-capacity battery. It stores a substantial amount
of energy to fill in between switching cycles internal to
the regulator and keep it from falling out of bed.
If your alternator shuts down when the battery is
removed, your capacitor may be (1) too small in value,
20,000 uFd minimum, bigger is better (2) failed or
(3) perhaps not installed.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14 |
>
>Bob,
>
>With respect to the discussions on this list a few weeks ago and your posted
>article about PM starters versus field-wound starters, I would like to point
>out a design factor not mentioned in those discussions and get your comments
>as to why this shouldn't negate the need to wire the PM starters as you have
>advocated, using the S704-1 starter run-on relay, shown on Figure Z-14.
>
>The PM Skytec starter, as you know, has a conventional dual winding solenoid
>(pull-in plus hold-in windings) but unlike the field-wound starters, the
>reverse current flow generated by the PM starter during its spin-down (after
>starter switch release) does not follow opposing paths through the two
>solenoid coils ( as is the case with field -wound starters wherein immediate
>cancellation of the magnetic fields occurs and thus drops out the solenoid
>instantaneously). Instead, the generated spin-down current in the PM starter
>continues to hold the solenoid activated and thus the starter pinion engaged
>to the ring gear for a period of time until the kinetic/electrical energy is
>expended.
Agreed
>This would appear to cause undue mechanical stresses on the starter motor,
>housing, pinion gear, ring gear, or some combination, EXCEPT for one
>consideration. The Skytec PM starter (and maybe others) has a built-in
>overrunning clutch that allows the pinion gear to remain harmlessly engaged
>during all or part of the spin-down period while the engine accelerates the
>ring gear and the still-engaged pinion gear to a higher RPM than the
>decelerating starter shaft. The presence of this feature can be detected by
>using one's finger to rotate the pinion on the starter shaft in the normal
>starting direction and observe the freedom to turn in that direction but not
>in the opposite direction.
Also correct
>
>
>Because the overrunning clutch feature is incorporated, this should
>adequately negate the mechanical stress concerns during run-on and is
>probably the main reason the FAA certification criteria allows this starter
>to be approved for certified Lycoming engines (and probably other makes)
>without need to alter the airframe wiring system.
Agreed in principal . . . but consider the mind
set of a spam-can-educated-pilot who has just
forked out the dollars to upgrade an acknowledge
piece of trash starter. Intuitively you and I
along with most of the amateur built aircraft
community can agree that additional wear and tear
on the starter due to delayed disengagement
is probably not a big deal.
>With the above in mind, I see no reason to not wire the Skytec PM starter in
>the conventional manner using a standard firewall mounted (high-current rated
>) starter contactor to supply current via #2 or #4 AWG to the main starter
>terminal and leave the manufacturer's small jumper wire in place from the
>main terminal to the spade terminal on the solenoid housing. The
>conventional firewall mounted starter contactor is still activated in the
>normal manner by a few amps (< 1 to 3 or so) through the cockpit toggle or
>key-operated starter switch, and in turn, deactivates essentially immediately
>upon switch release by the operator (and assuming there is a diode across the
>contactor coil).
No perceive sins here. Given 5 decades of striving for the
fastest, cleanest disengagement of starter upon release of the button
we now have to swap horses and say "don't worry about it."
The S704 relay is inexpensive and it drops stresses on the
panel mounted starter switch to a small fraction of the intermittent
duty contactor and a microscopic fraction of the current required
to energize the built in solenoid/contactor.
>IMHO, the fact that this conventional scheme allows the mounting of the high
>current rated starter contactor on the firewall and only requires a single #2
>or #4 wire to traverse the engine compartment to the starter and that this
>wire is NOT hot except during the actual starting process, this is safer than
>your alternate scheme. The alternate scheme that your schematic suggests
>leaves that #2 or #4 wire to the starter hot at all times (when the Master
>switch is on) so that when the starter solenoid is separately activated by
>the operator for engine starting via the S704-1 relay, there is already power
>available to the starter solenoid contactor and motor windings. It may be
>debatable whether having this heavy wire passing through the engine
>compartment in a hot status during flight is a significant added risk, but it
>seems to me that,all other things being equal, it would be preferable to not
>create this hot condition.
>
>As a final point, do you believe that all the certificated aircraft/engine
>installations using the FAA approved Skytec starters, as bolt-on replacements
>without any wiring changes, is creating a hazard that should justify that
>their wiring be modified per the Figure Z-14 drawing?
Hazard? It may be an advantage. Right now, the alternator b-lead
has to be returned to the firewall mounted starter contactor. If
you use a modern starter's built in solenoid/contactor, this brings a handy
FAT wire up to within a few inches of the alternator's b-lead.
What could be nicer than a short fused jumper between the alternator
b-lead and the starter power terminal? The increased amount of always
hot wire is trivial. Having said that, this makes it MUCH more difficult
if not impossible to include alternator loadmeter shunts and/or
hall effect sensors in the re-located b-lead feed.
Your arguments are technically sound. I think it comes down to
a choice driven by whether or not you ever plan to
install a loadmeter. If it were my airplane, I'd opt for firewall
mounted contactor, firewall mounted b-lead fuse and loadmeter
shunt and a wound field starter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec PM Starter Wiring Schematic Z-14 |
Bob,
Can you explain this statement further?
> What could be nicer than a short fused jumper between the alternator
> b-lead and the starter power terminal? The increased amount of always
> hot wire is trivial. Having said that, this makes it MUCH more
difficult
> if not impossible to include alternator loadmeter shunts and/or
> hall effect sensors in the re-located b-lead feed.
As per my email last night, I have wired my plane like this....
Battery plus to master via a 4" piece of #2 wire
From the master relay to the alternator via #2 wire
From alternator to 80 amp fuse via 6" piece of #2
Fuse bolted to the shunt (the shunt is bolted under the engine in front)
From shunt to starter via a 6" piece of #2 wire
From starter to battery negative via #2 wire.
The S-704 relay is used to control the solenoid on the starter.
Did I do something wrong?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel & Batteries |
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Fuel & Batteries
Thread-Index: AcCtlPd6cLRCLcmRTYyD7TJ2wX11OAAAongA
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
> If you're suffering lackluster cranking with a new
> RG battery of any capacity, I'd certainly look at
> intervening wiring and contactors first. Don't overlook
I have suspected some "burning" of the contactor points as being a cause
of higher resistance in the system but they're a pain to get to in my
airplane (behind the panel), and really wasn't sure if they were the
cause of my problem. When cold, usually my engine monitor indicates
12.0v. or more when I flip the master on.
> the ground path too. You can use a voltmeter to
> measure the positive and negative path drops during
> engine cranking. The ground path should be well under
> 0.8 volt. The positive path should be under 1.5 volts.
> Or build a millivoltmeter as discussed in the article
> in the chapter on grounding in the AeroElectric Connection.
> Here we're looking for path resistances on the order of
> 1.6 milliohms in the ground path and 3.5 milliohms
> in the positive path.
So, if I'm reading this right: connect my fluke voltmeter positive to
the hot side of the starter, and the negative lead to the negative side
of the battery; while cranking, I should see less than 1.5 volts. When
checking the ground from the starter, I should connect the positive lead
to the negative lead on the starter(which is connected to the case), and
the other lead to the negative post of the battery, and I should see
less than 0.8 volts during cranking. Is this correct?
>
> What size wire is used to do all the cranking path
> current in your airplane and where is the battery
> located?
4 ga. wire to starter (approx 5ft length to starter from starter
contactor), and 4 ga. ground wire from engine to firewall to battery.
> Deducing and fixing the cause excessive path loss
> is the minimum weight, minimum dollar approach to
> a solution.
Thanks for the help. You 'da man.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Rotax 912 Charging System |
>
>My battery was weak well before I installed the lights. It's been in the
>plane for at least a couple of years and doesn't seem to want to take a good
>full charge. The battery alone seemed to be drawing around 5 amps right
>after cranking pretty hard and it didn't seem to get much better (down to
>~4A after takeoff) so I think there's probably a cell or two going bad.
>
>I'm thinking the scenario is as follows (I'd appreciate if you'd let me know
>if you agree or disagree). I started out cranking the battery hard to get
>my engine started. The battery was drawing around 4 or 5A to begin with.
>After takeoff, while the battery was still drawing upwards of 4A, I flipped
>on the strobes, adding about 3A or so and everything was still OK as I was
>continuing to indicate a positive charge of 3A or so and 14 volts on the
>bus. When I flipped on the nav lights, the ammeter continued to show a very
>slight positive charge (but due to meter tolerance could have actually been
>a discharge) and the line voltage started to slowly bleed off to 12V. At
>this point, I probably had a total load of 3A to the battery, 7A to the nav
>lts, and at least 3A to the strobes plus the current required by my gauges,
>nav/com, and transponder which very easily could account for another 3 or 4A
>for a total of around 17A which is the max output from my regulator.
>Therefore, I'm thinking with a healthy charged battery that isn't
>significantly depleted after a start, I should be marginal but OK.
>Otherwise, I think I need to let the battery recharge to a reasonable level
>(and the charge current drop) before I fire up the NAV lights.
What was the voltage with minimum loads . . . I.e. turning off everything
that will turn off?
>The 912 Rotax has the built in magneto-generator that feeds a regulator.
>I'm a little concerned about stressing the Ducati regulator by drawing max
>current. What's your feeling on that subject?
Specs is specs is specs. Either their device is good for 17 amps
of output or they should change the published numbers. There's
no excuse for claiming one thing and having reality turn out to
be something different.
>I also think I should add the crowbar OV protector just in case
>the regulator fails. There's a 35A breaker just beyond the regulator
>that provides DC to everything else. Couldn't I just add the protector
>at that point so it would trip the 35A breaker and isolate everything
>south of the regulator?
Not with our present OVM design. It's sized to take
down breakers of 5A or less. It is POSSIBLE to do the
job by opening the bus feed breaker. In the case of
Rotax 17A ratings, I'd drop the breaker to 20A. We'd
also have to upsize the guts of the OVM.
________________________________________________________________________________
----- OriginaSubject: crimp tool
bob
i just got your d-sub crimp tool from b and c and want to know where
the crimp should be on the pin. my crimps come out on the very end
crimping about 3/32 or less. should i hold the pin back a little or is
this ok? also where can i buy solder sleeves?
thanks
dave pierson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: AEC questions |
>- aux battery charged thru low voltage module?
> I presume you're asking about the automatic switchover feature shown in
some of our power distribution diagrams.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that I didn't see a charge path
for the aux battery in fig Z-14, does it get charged thru the low voltage
module? I guess I'm missing something simple, but that happens a lot.
Thanks for the help, Gary K.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: AEC questions |
>
> >- aux battery charged thru low voltage module?
>
>> I presume you're asking about the automatic switchover feature shown in
>some of our power distribution diagrams.
>
>Sorry, I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that I didn't see a charge path
>for the aux battery in fig Z-14, does it get charged thru the low voltage
>module? I guess I'm missing something simple, but that happens a lot.
>
>Thanks for the help, Gary K.
Oh, okay. The second battery gets tied to the bus any time
the voltage is 13.0 or better. This does two things: (1)
turn out the LV WARN light and close the aux battery master
contactor. For all normal operations the aux battery is tied
in parallel with the main battery for charging and engine cranking.
In case of alternator failure, the bus voltage drops in seconds
illuminating the warning light and OPENING the aux battery master
contactor thus disconnecting it from the bus.
From that time until landing or restoration of altenrator
service, the aux battery can power only those devices that
are fed from the aux battery bus.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
> ----- OriginaSubject: crimp tool
>
>
> bob
> i just got your d-sub crimp tool from b and c and want to know where
>the crimp should be on the pin. my crimps come out on the very end
>crimping about 3/32 or less. should i hold the pin back a little or is
>this ok?
No, it's not okay. I used to check and modify those tools
as needed. B&C told me a few weeks ago that the tools seemed
to be putting the crimp in the right place. I'm now finding
out that their assessment was incorrect. You can either return
the tool for replacement or modify it yourself as shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/techbits/rct3mod.jpg
>also where can i buy solder sleeves?
Check out the solder sleeve data on Raychem's website
at:
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54683.pdf
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54681.pdf
http://interconnect.raychem.com/pdf/h54682.pdf
then click on this link to find a distributor near you:
http://interconnect.raychem.com/indexf.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
bob
thanks for the info on the fix for the rct-3. i can handle the fix myself.
now another question.
what are your thoughts on putting a gps antenna under the fiberglass engine
cowl on an rv-6?
thanks
dave pierson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Safest battery location |
Bob,
I've been reading the "batteries and fuel" thread with interest. I'm building
an RV-8A with a
parallel valve Lycoming 360 and a constant speed prop. Some builder feel that the
low speed
(approach to landing) handling of this ship is better with the battery located
in the baggage
compartment rather than on the firewall.
I noted someone mentioned earlier that batteries are a major cause of after crash
fires. Which of
these two locations (firewall / baggage compartment) do you feel offers better
safety in a
crash/post crash situation?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fuselage Alodining parts
Boca Raton, Fl. (corrosion capital of the world)
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>bob
>thanks for the info on the fix for the rct-3. i can handle the fix myself.
>
>now another question.
>what are your thoughts on putting a gps antenna under the fiberglass engine
>cowl on an rv-6?
>thanks
>dave pierson
I think it's been tried. I'm not sure how well it worked
out. I recall some discussions about this some years ago.
If you have an active antenna (amplifier built in) there
are concerns for heat soaking after engine shut-down.
Also, while fiberglas and epoxy is a pretty good insulator,
it DOES offer some attentuation to the 1500 MHz GPS signal
which is already pretty weak.
Give it a try. If it works okay, lets write up a little
article about it and let the rest of the world know
the results. We'd probably want to do some comparative
testing. Does your GPS have a signal strength display
function?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------
( "Imagination is more important than knowledge. )
( It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal )
( education" Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
February 15, 2001 - March 16, 2001
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ab