AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ag

June 26, 2001 - July 30, 2001



      
         When I was shopping for crimpers, the local store had a sale on the
      Sargent.  I tried it out, it has a very nice fine ratchet.  But they didn't
      have many dies for it - they were closing it out.  Instead, I bought an "Ideal"
      ratchet crimper, which cost about as much, but the ratchet wasn't as fine. 
      However, they had a boatload of dies for the Ideal.  
      
         The ratchet makes these tools pretty idiot-proof, hence the lack of
      instructions.  The one thing you have to remember is that there are two
      sides to the die.  The side with the relief cut in the curve is where the
      wire comes out.  The other side, without the relief, is what I call "the
      business end" - this is where the real crimp happens.
      
                      - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
                      
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Daniels Wire Crimper
I got a nice message back from DMC tools saying that the HX3 and HX4 crimpers were NOT satisfactory for wire gauges larger than 10. They suggested a hydraulic crimper which they manufacture for the larger size wires. Thanks Bob Steward Birmingham, AL >By replacing the dies, you can crimp many different types of >connectors. I have ordered a catalog on-line to find out what selection >is available. > > > >I have a Daniels Mfg. Co. HX4 M22520/5-01 crimper (with M22520/5-100 > dies for 10-26 gauge crimps), http://www.dmctools.com/dmctools/open-frame.html. > >Is this tool suitable for crimping large wire gauges (4, 6, 8?) with the >correct dies? Or is there another recommended tool for doing these larger >sizes? >Bob Steward >Birmingham, AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Battery Corrosion
Date: Jun 26, 2001
Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6. I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it should. Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm pivot bolt and batter box. My question is this. 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years. 2. How can I prevent it from occurring? Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems? (It starts the bike fine) Does moisture have anything to do with it? Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide. Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com Plainfield, IL RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps Stinson 108-2 N9666K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
In all my experience with batteries on cars, motorcycles and lawn tractors, all the major corrosion and "fungus" has occured at the POS terminal, with very little at the NEG terminal. My airplane is clean as a whistle. Could there be a leak around the NEG baterry post? did you have to whack/hammer it to get the wire connector on? See what happens if you lightly coat the NEG terminal and wire connector with some high temp grease (to keep it from running all over the place, as does petrolatum, when it gets hot). Boyd. Mike Nellis wrote: > > > Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery > corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6. > > I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally > since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat > for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I > recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of > white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the > battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot > bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I > could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it > should. > > Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the > negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm > pivot bolt and batter box. > > My question is this. > > 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years. > 2. How can I prevent it from occurring? > > Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems? > (It starts the bike fine) > > Does moisture have anything to do with it? > > Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide. > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > Plainfield, IL > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > Stinson 108-2 N9666K > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
Date: Jun 26, 2001
> > Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the > negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm > pivot bolt and batter box. > > My question is this. > > 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years. > 2. How can I prevent it from occurring? > > Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems? *** I've seen this before. I think that the battery's seals get weak where the posts come out. Cure is probably a new battery. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
> >Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery >corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6. > >I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally >since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat >for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I >recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of >white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the >battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot >bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I >could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it >should. > >Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the >negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm >pivot bolt and batter box. > >My question is this. > >1. Why would this start up after about 4 years. 4 years on one battery? For an airplane, this is at least 2 years too long. Also, is it an RG (sealed, zero slosh, zero maintenance) battery? >2. How can I prevent it from occurring? If it's a flooded battery, replace it more often. It's capacity is by now a fraction of what it was when new. Consider a sealed, RG battery like you plan to use on your airplane. I've seen a few of these get messy around the terminals in their old age . . . but much less often than with a flooded battery. >Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems? >(It starts the bike fine) > >Does moisture have anything to do with it? It's probably loss of seal around the battery post where it emerges from the battery. Metal posts and plastic battery cases are not exactly made for each other in terms of establishing and maintaining a gas-tight seal around the post. I think it's mostly aging of the plastic (motorcycle batteries are generally not leading edge examples of the best we know how to do in battery technology). Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Daniels Wire Crimper
> >> I have experimented on a few terminals. The result is not readily >> visible, so how to I know I have the wire properly crimped and the strain >> relief properly done? > >*** Light Plane Maintenance had a really good article on crimpers and >terminals a year or so ago. They made up a test jig with a crank and an >inline scale, the kind you might use for weighing fish. > > Basically, they were looking for pullout strength. The bigger numbers >they got on the scale, the better. They were also happy if the wire broke >in two, rather than pulling out at the crimp. Crimp a red terminal on a 22AWG wire and hang one gallon milk-jug of water on it, use 16AWG and blue terminal with two jugs, and 12AWG with yellow terminal and three jugs. > The very best crimps were done by a $300 AMP tool. The second best, as I >remember, were a $70 tool made by Sargent. All of the "good" tools they >reviewed were ratchet tools with removable dies. They also reviewed one >general purpose "electrician" tool. It sucked, but they were able to get >good crimps with decent connectors. With the combination of a cheap tool, >and cheap connectors, they were unable to get a good crimp :). > > It also mattered which brand and type of connector was used. AMP came out >on top, again... I don't remember any of the also-rans, I buy AMP. The PIDG style terminals from AMP are interchangeable with the same styles (metal lined insulation grips) from other major brands. We sell AMP PIDG from my website . . . we've had Waldom/Molex Avicrimps from time to time but rarely. > When I was shopping for crimpers, the local store had a sale on the >Sargent. I tried it out, it has a very nice fine ratchet. But they didn't >have many dies for it - they were closing it out. Instead, I bought an "Ideal" >ratchet crimper, which cost about as much, but the ratchet wasn't as fine. >However, they had a boatload of dies for the Ideal. I looked into interchangeable dies for the tools we sell . . . in low quantities, it was about as economical to just sell a whole tool for each task. You only need three or four anyhow for a total of about $150 . . . and then you don't have to take a screwdriver to the tool to change tasks and you don't misplace loose dies. I had a tool with a whole set of dies a few years back that I put into a garage sale . . . liked the single-tool-per-task approach much better. > The ratchet makes these tools pretty idiot-proof, hence the lack of >instructions. The one thing you have to remember is that there are two >sides to the die. The side with the relief cut in the curve is where the >wire comes out. The other side, without the relief, is what I call "the >business end" - this is where the real crimp happens. Depending on the tool, the crimp height may not be different for the wire and insulation grips. The $40 PIDG tool we sell is symmetrical so it doesn't matter which side of the tool gets the wire grip. Instructions for proper use SHOULD come with each tool if it's not obvious. Do the 8/16/24 pound pull tests on your experimental terminals. If the wires don't pull out, the tool is probably fine for the task. If you want to send me terminals applied with the tool, I can have them pull tested at the shop to see how they compare with our bizillion dollar tools . . . but even if there are differences, they'll be small. Test them yourself and truck on . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 403mc
> >Hi Bob, >Changed the wires around on the mic jacks and hooked up the radio correctly, >per your 403mc drawing, and everything checks out. Didn't have another radio >around but I do get a transmit light and side tone with the PTT. A word of >caution, make sure the volume and squelch controls on the intercom are all >the way down when you turn the battery switch on the first time. If not the >noise will blast your ear drums. Ask me how I know! Thank you for all the >help on this puppy. >Best regards, >Bruce Bell >Lubbock, Texas My pleasure sir . . . Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re:TNC connectors
> >> >> Bob: >> >> My GPS antenna requires a TNC connector. Could you recommend a mfg. and part >> no. for RG-400 coax. Also the GPS requires an altitude input D4 from the >> encoder but my encoder only supplies A1 thru C4. Would you please comment on >> this? > >*** Well, I can't address the TNC connector, but the D4 wire... ....is for >higher altitudes. One extra wire doubles the # of altitudes for a normal >binary code, not sure what it does for Gray code. You can leave this D4 >input unconnected, or maybe pull it high - although I think the standard is >for inputs to have their own pullup resistors. I think Jerry is correct on this . . . you only need the D4 connection for flight in very rarified air . . . like 30K feet or more . . . don't think any single engine prop jobs ever get high enough to need it. The altitude versus data table at: http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt Suggests that D4 goes high for altitudes above 30,700 so I think I'd try grounding the unused D4 pin. If you're interested in an explanation of the gray code and data on how the code relates to altitude, see: http://www.airsport-corp.com/modec.htm The TNC connector is available from Newark. See: http://www.newark.com/C118_modules/8203.html I think you need the 40F6331 which you can order at: http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=40F6331 I think the crimp tool we sell for installing the BNC connectors will also install this connector. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <glassman(at)tns.net>
Subject: Servo supply.
Date: Jun 26, 2001
Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any ideas? Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com>
Subject: Servo supply.
Date: Jun 26, 2001
lower the voltage LM317 is the part, an adjustable voltage regulator why do you want it slower? What you want to do with a electric trim is move it in bumps - press-release not press-and-hold -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob W M Shipley Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Servo supply. Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any ideas? Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re:TNC connectors
Date: Jun 26, 2001
> > > >*** Well, I can't address the TNC connector, but the D4 wire... ....is for > >higher altitudes. One extra wire doubles the # of altitudes for a normal > >binary code, not sure what it does for Gray code. You can leave this D4 > >input unconnected, or maybe pull it high - although I think the standard is > >for inputs to have their own pullup resistors. > > > I think Jerry is correct on this . . . you only need the > D4 connection for flight in very rarified air . . . like > 30K feet or more . . . don't think any single engine prop > jobs ever get high enough to need it. The altitude versus > data table at: > > http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt > > Suggests that D4 goes high for altitudes above 30,700 so I > think I'd try grounding the unused D4 pin. *** No, don't ground it! The altitude bus is inverted logic. "1" means pulled to ground, "0" is let-it-float. There's a reason for this: The encoder bus is an "open collector" bus. The encoder pulls desired lines low, and all the bus listeners are isolated from it with diodes. So, for each input of each item ( say, you have a transponder AND a GPS AND a display of some sort hooked up to the altitude bus ), it's diode lets the encoder suck current out of that particular input. But if you turn off your transponder, GPS, or display, the "input" of that item is not able to suck current out of the node, causing a false altitude readout. The reason busses like this are usually low=1 is that traditional TTL logic is much better at pulling things low than at pulling things high. A typical gate output can sink 5 or ten milliamps to make its output low; it can only source a fraction of a milliamp to make its output high. And the "open collector" gates that are used for these sorts of things are incapable of sourcing any current at all! > > If you're interested in an explanation of the gray code > and data on how the code relates to altitude, see: > *** Wow, GREAT url, Bob! - Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
> >Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net > >I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim >on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if >there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any >ideas? > >Rob. Sure. Our little half amp dimmers have been used for this purpose. Instead of adjusting voltage to a light bulb, you can set the voltage to a more desirable, lower voltage with the dimmer. You can see the dimmer product at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/lighting.html#dim5-14 You can download instructions for installing the dimmer at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/9013_ins.pdf This document also illustrates the wiring diagram for the dimmer which you can use as a guide for fabricating your own voltage adjustment device . . . the parts needed to do this are available at Radio Shack. If you wanted a really compact assembly, the little DIM5-14 assembly can be fitted with a potentiometer right on the board and eliminate the outboard potentiometer used as the panel control for dimming. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Servo supply.
> >lower the voltage > >LM317 is the part, an adjustable voltage regulator > >why do you want it slower? What you want to do with a electric trim is move >it in bumps - press-release not press-and-hold Many airplanes suffer from poor trim speed selection over the full range of the airspeeds. Designers have little choice when it comes to off-the-shelf actuators to operate trim systems and they seldom take the time to optimize the mechanical gain between the selected trim actuator and the trim tab . . . It's not uncommon for builders to find that the trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during cruise. Pilots loved it. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RKOdell(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Subject: Re: BNC bulkhead connectors
Bob, What is the appropriate BNC connector to use in a transponder rack? I've been eyeballing bulkhead BNC connectors a while now, and I haven't seen one that looked like it would work. Keith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ENewton57(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
In a message dated 6/26/01 10:38:03 PM Central Daylight Time, glassman(at)tns.net writes: << I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any ideas? >> The people that produce the MAC servo make a speed servo for the product. Check them out at: http://www.menzimeraircraft.com/ Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Baffles) http://www.ericsrv6a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com>
Subject: Servo supply.
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Bob, snip It's not uncommon for builders to find that the trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during cruise. Pilots loved it. snip So your the one! As I recall the early Lear's (23) had very fast single speed trim - hence the bump method of trim adjustment. Also some fatal accidents from run away trim. Then the slowed down multy speed comes in as the fix for that. Have I got that right? Ronin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
In a message dated 6/27/01 7:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: << Many airplanes suffer from poor trim speed selection over the full range of the airspeeds. >> I have wired a MAC speed control in parallel with direct 12 volt power to the MAC trim servo. Hi/Lo rate selection in made by toggle switch on MAC stick grip next to trim control button. I'll adjust the low rate one I have tested the effect. Have not flown it yet to report actual results but have a MAC trim servo on another homebuilt I did a few years ago and believe this set up will help. Dale Ensing 6A finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
Matte Draille also sells a speed adjustable servo thru Matronics, called " The Govenor" it also has relays for multiple switches (pilot/co-pilot). Van's also sells it int heit catalog. Boyd ENewton57(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 6/26/01 10:38:03 PM Central Daylight Time, > glassman(at)tns.net writes: > > << I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim > on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if > there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any > ideas? >> > > The people that produce the MAC servo make a speed servo for the product. > Check them out at: > http://www.menzimeraircraft.com/ > > Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi > R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Subject: Ground wire
From: Joel Harding <dsl10driver(at)ev1.net>
Bob, My plans show a local ground for the rear battery placement, but your manual discusses running the 2awg ground wire back to the ground block on the firewall. Was that for glass airplanes only or does it also apply to metal planes, and if so why? Thanks, Joel Harding ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: More music in intercom questions
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Here's a lower cost solution... www.boostaroo.com Vlad's Audio Unit is $119, the Boostaroo is $20, 20-20k +/1 2 db, high s/n ratio. I just ordered one for me and another for my buddy and will put a review on my web site once I've run it through the paces. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com > Currently this product we offered for sale, and we are sorry, but > we could not provide any schematic. With unit we will provide > connection diagram. > Just buy product and fly! Do you want to resale products? > > We have more in our product line: > - Anticollision Light Unit; > - Audio Unit; > - Servo Control Unit (will control two RC servo, mainly used for > aerodynamical timers and other actuated applications); > - Fuel Measurement and Warning unit; > ... > Please visit our site with UNET(tm) technologies: > http://www.unet.umbtech.com > > Vlad > > > > Same problem I have with Garmin 340 audio panel and a few others. > > > There is no way to increase signal level inside audio unit, so I developed > > > amplifier. If you interested, drop me a note, I have PC board, and > > > I could make them in small batches. > > > Amplification could be adjust by an voltage control. Been air tested > > > for 8 month. Simple to install/add to existing wiring. > > > Vlad > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I was able to wire up a music input to a PS eng. intercom. I would like > > > >to use my MP3 player headphone jack - problem is the signal strength is > > > >low. Is there a way to amplify the signal? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Servo supply.
Date: Jun 27, 2001
Hi Rob; I plan to use this switch to control my flaps. 2-speed elevator trim Herga pressure switch--Newark Electronics stock No.46WX771 ( or Farnell part No. 731912 ). (Farnell was bought out by Newark.) 1999 price was $33 It is plumbed to your pitot tube and will give full speed trim control at low speed (below 110 ??) and half speed trim control at higher speeds. I had a short flight in an RV-6 that was equipped with this and it worked well. The builder (Ted French) also had a control board for his flaps that was tied in with this switch to adjust trim automatically when flaps were applied. Worked very well. He is building another 6a and has the schematic diagram for this on his web site. http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/aircraft.html Todd Bartrim 13B RV-9 Fuselage (arrives tomorrow..... pleeeaaase) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob W > M Shipley > Sent: June 26, 2001 8:35 PM > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Servo supply. > > > > > Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net > > I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim > on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if > there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any > ideas? > > Rob. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2001
From: Rob Mokry <robmokry(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: More music in intercom questions
Randy, Let us know what you find out-The company might need a bit of help with marketing? Randy Lervold wrote: > > Here's a lower cost solution... > www.boostaroo.com > Vlad's Audio Unit is $119, the Boostaroo is $20, 20-20k +/1 2 db, high s/n > ratio. I just ordered one for me and another for my buddy and will put a > review on my web site once I've run it through the paces. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-8.com > > > Currently this product we offered for sale, and we are sorry, but > > we could not provide any schematic. With unit we will provide > > connection diagram. > > Just buy product and fly! Do you want to resale products? > > > > We have more in our product line: > > - Anticollision Light Unit; > > - Audio Unit; > > - Servo Control Unit (will control two RC servo, mainly used for > > aerodynamical timers and other actuated applications); > > - Fuel Measurement and Warning unit; > > ... > > Please visit our site with UNET(tm) technologies: > > http://www.unet.umbtech.com > > > > Vlad > > > > > > Same problem I have with Garmin 340 audio panel and a few others. > > > > There is no way to increase signal level inside audio unit, so I > developed > > > > amplifier. If you interested, drop me a note, I have PC board, and > > > > I could make them in small batches. > > > > Amplification could be adjust by an voltage control. Been air tested > > > > for 8 month. Simple to install/add to existing wiring. > > > > Vlad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I was able to wire up a music input to a PS eng. intercom. I would > like > > > > >to use my MP3 player headphone jack - problem is the signal strength > is > > > > >low. Is there a way to amplify the signal? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Moody" <moodyj(at)melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Mic PTT Grounding
Date: Jun 28, 2001
Bob The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory? regards John Moody Melbourne, Australia Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Mic PTT Grounding
Date: Jun 28, 2001
John, I have the PM1000 also. The mic jack is grounded using the intercom ground system via a ground wire and the PTT switches use that ground also. My PM1000 is hooked into a wiring harnes that shares the ground with the radio and transponder and the ground is attached to the ground block on the firewall. Your jacks will need some inserts to insulate them from the panel. B&C carries them. You don't want the jacks to ground at the panel unless you like squealing in the headset. G'day Jerry Calvert RV6 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Moody <moodyj(at)melbpc.org.au> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mic PTT Grounding > > Bob > > The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at > the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory? > > regards > > John Moody > Melbourne, Australia > Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2001
Subject: RE:Dorne & Margolin Ant.
I have a Dorne & Margolin ant. that I bought about 15 years ago and don't remember what it was for. D & M doesn't appear to be in business anymore. Does anyone know what happened to them? The ant. is a DM Q-18-3. Does anyone know what it is for? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net>
Subject: Re: RE:Dorne & Margolin Ant.
> >I have a Dorne & Margolin ant. that I bought about 15 years ago and don't >remember what it was for. D & M doesn't appear to be in business anymore. >Does anyone know what happened to them? The ant. is a DM Q-18-3. Does anyone >know what it is for? > >Steve You have an elt antenna Specs on this webpage http://www.edmo.com/s1/s1-51.asp DM Q18-3121.5 & 243.0 MHz Improved stronger version of the DM Q18-1/A, however it has a different mounting hole pattern. Recommended for new and retrofit installations. Connector: BNC Female 400 mph rated VSWR: 2.0:1 @ 243.0 MHz 2.5:1 @ 121.5 MHz WEIGHT: 12 oz. HEIGHT: 13.0" Jim Pollard Merlin Ont ch601hds ea81 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Trim speed control history
> >Bob, > >snip > > It's not uncommon for builders to find that the > trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately > trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed > trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that > allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases > but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during > cruise. Pilots loved it. > > >snip > > So your the one! > > As I recall the early Lear's (23) had very fast single speed trim - hence >the bump method of trim adjustment. Also some fatal accidents from run away >trim. Then the slowed down multy speed comes in as the fix for that. Have I >got that right? > >Ronin I don't recall that I ever got to do anything for the 20's series machines. The program got started as a whippy new feature slated for the new Lear 55. We KNEW that the original trim system design had to run full motor current the length of the airplane 4 times and had voltage drop problems during upset loads. The later airplanes were certified with trim systems so slow (to meet runaway recovery requirements at Mach cruise) that you had to start trimming 10 miles out from landing to get the airplane into a landing configuration. Just weeks after winning certification of the two speed system on the yet to be produced 55, an airworthiness directive came out against the 30 series aircraft when they discovered the loss of trim effort due to voltage drop during upset recovery. We began an immediate effort to apply what we'd learned on the 55's to the 30 series ships. That program was a retrofit to the FLEET! Made my boss so happy he gave me a 30% raise in pay! I think most of the accidents originally hung on trim runaways turned out to be problems surrounding the "go fast switch" . . . Seems that some pilots were willing to shut off the Mach warning horn and bump the throttles up into coffin-corner . . . you gotta be quick to keep from dying if the airplane pitches down for any reason . . . lots of pilots weren't fast enough. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Mic PTT Grounding
> >Bob > >The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at >the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory? > >regards > >John Moody >Melbourne, Australia >Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S remote grounds will probably work . . . I like to return them to the mic jack . . . the rule of thumb for reducing the ability of a wire to be a victim of noise is to have every outbound electron in close proximity to the inbound electrons and all ground returned to the connector of the appliance. That's why I draw the headset, microphone and PTT leads the way you see them in our Microair 760VHF installation drawings. You can try anything you want and if it works, then it's okay. I KNOW that the wiring I suggest is always okay. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Ground wire
> >Bob, >My plans show a local ground for the rear battery placement, but your manual >discusses running the 2awg ground wire back to the ground block on the >firewall. Was that for glass airplanes only or does it also apply to metal >planes, and if so why? > >Thanks, > >Joel Harding If your battery is close to the engine, then 4AWG wire is fine and the battery (-) lead should go to the ground block stud. If the battery is behind the seats in a metal airplane, it's usually okay to ground locally . . use 2AWG to bring + forward. If it's a plastic airplane and the battery is on opposite end of airplane from engine, you need 2AWG both pathways. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: BNC bulkhead connectors
> >Bob, > >What is the appropriate BNC connector to use in a transponder rack? I've been >eyeballing bulkhead BNC connectors a while now, and I haven't seen one that >looked like it would work. > >Keith If you're talking about a connector that is captive to the tray such that the transponder automatically engages the antenna connection, you're looking for a special connector that may be unique to the particular transponder. Do you have the installation manual for your transponder . . . or can you get a peek at a book in the library of a local avionics shop? Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Gray-Code logic levels for encoders
> >*** No, don't ground it! The altitude bus is inverted logic. "1" means >pulled to ground, "0" is let-it-float. There's a reason for this: > > The encoder bus is an "open collector" bus. The encoder pulls desired >lines low, and all the bus listeners are isolated from it with diodes. So, >for each input of each item ( say, you have a transponder AND a GPS AND a >display of some sort hooked up to the altitude bus ), it's diode lets the >encoder suck current out of that particular input. But if you turn off your >transponder, GPS, or display, the "input" of that item is not able to suck >current out of the node, causing a false altitude readout. > > The reason busses like this are usually low=1 is that traditional TTL logic >is much better at pulling things low than at pulling things high. A typical >gate output can sink 5 or ten milliamps to make its output low; it can only >source a fraction of a milliamp to make its output high. And the "open >collector" gates that are used for these sorts of things are incapable of >sourcing any current at all! I knew that . . . thanks for reminding me. I recall thrashing through that architecture on program at Mooney a couple of decades ago. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics book?
> >Hello, > > I'm looking for some sort of book that would describe the electronics >used in small planes. Best would be at a "technician" level, e.g. for >someone who is already in electronics - not to waste my time and paper >trying to teach the difference between voltage and current, and how a >resistor works - I already know these things, thank you. > > The book I'm looking for would describe in detail the frequencies and >modulation used for VOR signals. It would describe the standard >interfaces between navcoms, glideslope receivers, indicators, and GPS's. >It would describe the frequencies and pulses for DME's and transponders. >It would tell the Gray codes used for mode C. > > Is there anything like this out there? Thanks in advance, > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) Jerry, I've got a total blank there. I've never had occasion to consult such a book. I've used books from the library on systems but I don't know of anything that speaks to integration issues . . . particularly between brands and types of equipment. I think that stuff is handed down by mentorship . . . the market is too small to expect to sell many books. If anyone else out there comes across an interesting and/or informative text on the subject of avionics, let us hear from you. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
Date: Jun 28, 2001
If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Boyd C. Braem <bcbraem(at)home.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:21 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Corrosion > > In all my experience with batteries on cars, motorcycles and lawn > tractors, all the major corrosion and "fungus" has occured at the POS > terminal, with very little at the NEG terminal. My airplane is clean as > a whistle. Could there be a leak around the NEG baterry post? did you > have to whack/hammer it to get the wire connector on? See what happens > if you lightly coat the NEG terminal and wire connector with some high > temp grease (to keep it from running all over the place, as does > petrolatum, when it gets hot). > > Boyd. > > Mike Nellis wrote: > > > > > > Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery > > corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6. > > > > I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally > > since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat > > for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I > > recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of > > white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the > > battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot > > bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I > > could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it > > should. > > > > Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the > > negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm > > pivot bolt and batter box. > > > > My question is this. > > > > 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years. > > 2. How can I prevent it from occurring? > > > > Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems? > > (It starts the bike fine) > > > > Does moisture have anything to do with it? > > > > Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide. > > > > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com > > Plainfield, IL > > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps > > Stinson 108-2 N9666K > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Avionics book?
From: "Steve Williams" <sbw(at)sbw.org>
Date: Jun 28, 2001
08:30:16 PM I've long relied on Modern Aviation Electronics by Albert Helfrick. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013097692X/sbw/ Especially since you ask about relatively old technology (VOR, DME, XPDR), this would be a good introduction for you. I have the 1984 edition, but a 1994 edition is now available. A newer book by Helfrick supposedly covers satellite technology, glass cockpit, and datalink as well. I haven't seen it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885544103/sbw/ Alas, both are expensive. Steve Williams http://www.sbw.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Gray-Code logic levels for encoders
Date: Jun 28, 2001
> > I knew that . . . thanks for reminding me. I recall thrashing > through that architecture on program at Mooney a couple of decades > ago. > > Bob . . . > *** And it was very much on my mind a month or so ago, as I laboriously inserted a diode in each altitude bus wire, in order to hook up my IFR GPS. Manufacturers instructions forced me to insert the diodes, and I cursed every inch of the way BECAUSE... ...The diodes only DO anything if you turn off the transponder ( letting its inputs possibly become shorts to ground because they're lacking power ) AND ...The encoder is powered by a switched lead from the transponder and if you turn the transponder off, the encoder stops encoding anyway! ....DUHHHH. :) ( Cooperate, graduate. My GPS's VFR 337 is now signed off ) - Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics book?
I did in fact see such a book maybe 27 years ago. Sorry no recall of title nor author. Another thought that comes to mind is US Air Force T.O.s (Technical Orders). They contain excellent basics (including antenna theory) and I seem to recall one on VORs (TACANs). It's out there, so keep looking. Finn "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > > > I'm looking for some sort of book that would describe the electronics > >used in small planes. Best would be at a "technician" level, e.g. for > >someone who is already in electronics - not to waste my time and paper > >trying to teach the difference between voltage and current, and how a > >resistor works - I already know these things, thank you. > > > > The book I'm looking for would describe in detail the frequencies and > >modulation used for VOR signals. It would describe the standard > >interfaces between navcoms, glideslope receivers, indicators, and GPS's. > >It would describe the frequencies and pulses for DME's and transponders. > >It would tell the Gray codes used for mode C. > > > > Is there anything like this out there? Thanks in advance, > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) > > Jerry, I've got a total blank there. I've never had occasion > to consult such a book. I've used books from the library on > systems but I don't know of anything that speaks to integration > issues . . . particularly between brands and types of equipment. > I think that stuff is handed down by mentorship . . . the market > is too small to expect to sell many books. > > If anyone else out there comes across an interesting and/or > informative text on the subject of avionics, let us hear from > you. > > Bob . . . > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics book?
> > >I've long relied on Modern Aviation Electronics by Albert Helfrick. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013097692X/sbw/ > >Especially since you ask about relatively old technology (VOR, DME, XPDR), >this would be a good introduction for you. I have the 1984 edition, but a >1994 edition is now available. Steve, thanks for the head's up on this. There was a used copy offered at this link for a few dollar less. I went ahead and picked it up for my library. >A newer book by Helfrick supposedly covers satellite technology, glass >cockpit, and datalink as well. I haven't seen it: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885544103/sbw/ > >Alas, both are expensive. ????? You ought to see what my wife's book bills are each semester for graduate school texts . . . This book was a BARGAIN! Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
> >If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of >the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts >leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery >top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well. >----- Original Message ----- This is an excellent point that I'd not considered in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas though the vent caps and will deposit a very thin layer of acidic residue across the top of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a day in which to do its thing. Another good reason NOT to put a flooded battery in an airplane . . . the same vapors will eat on battery boxes and adjacent airplane parts. Long live the RG battery . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > > > >If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of > >the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts > >leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery > >top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well. > >----- Original Message ----- > > This is an excellent point that I'd not considered > in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas > though the vent caps and will deposit a very > thin layer of acidic residue across the top > of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current > to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a > day in which to do its thing. > snip > Bob . . . > And it's no doubt the source of the "Don't leave your battery sitting on concrete" myth. Has anyone actually placed a NEW battery on concrete & had it go dead at an accelerated rate? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Corrosion
> >And it's no doubt the source of the "Don't leave your >battery sitting on concrete" myth. Has anyone actually >placed a NEW battery on concrete & had it go dead at an >accelerated rate? Could be . . . Back when that myth was king, the self discharge rate on a stored battery was probably higher than it is today. I used to do maintenance checks on batties used to back up a customers two-way radio system in the early 60's . . . he wasn't happy about having to replace the batteries every 2-3 years because the capacity had fallen off . . . he decided that it was because they were setting on a concrete floor of a shack at the base of a tower . . . he built a wooden pallet to support the batteries . . . it didn't help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in series with the jack to make the headset see 9V? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: power jack for david clark headset
Date: Jun 29, 2001
I would use the appropriate LM voltage regulator... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Larkin" <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in series with the jack to make the headset see 9V? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PWilsonwcr(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 30, 2001
Subject: Re: batteries
Bob, you should mention the differences on how the terminals are manufactured wherein the cheapo ones use cast terminals which have built in leak paths to allow the electrolight to get out. Some of the aircraft batteries (both flooded and RG) use terminals which are machined from solid material and do not leak. The cast terminal is another reason, in addition to outgassing, that some of the batteries have yuk on the top. I dont remember which batteries commonly used for aircraft use the good terminals. Maybe you can enlighten us. Paul =========== > >If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of >the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts >leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery >top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well. >----- Original Message ----- This is an excellent point that I'd not considered in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas though the vent caps and will deposit a very thin layer of acidic residue across the top of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a day in which to do its thing. Another good reason NOT to put a flooded battery in an airplane . . . the same vapors will eat on battery boxes and adjacent airplane parts. Long live the RG battery . . . Bob . . . >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Dual switches?
> >Comments/Questions: I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small switch in ea grip YET still use switches on the panel if needed. What do I need to do this? Relays? How do I wire? Why would you want to add complexity to your system and use up panel space to duplicate functions already in place on the grip? Loss of functionality of either pitch trim or flap positioning doesn't put the airplane into any immediate hazard and in most cases, has only a small effect on pilot workload. What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability into the grips-only switching system and save some time and dollars in the process . . . Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: power jack for david clark headset
Why not use a simple 3 pin fixed voltage regulator like LM7809? Could probably pick it up from Radio Shack. Finn Andrew Larkin wrote: > > I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power > for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark > headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V > from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the > current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in > series with the jack to make the headset see 9V? > > Thanks. > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: batteries and leaky terminal posts
> >Bob, you should mention the differences on how the terminals are manufactured >wherein the cheapo ones use cast terminals which have built in leak paths to >allow the electrolight to get out. Some of the aircraft batteries (both >flooded and RG) use terminals which are machined from solid material and do >not leak. The cast terminal is another reason, in addition to outgassing, >that some of the batteries have yuk on the top. I dont remember which >batteries commonly used for aircraft use the good terminals. Maybe you can >enlighten us. > Paul >=========== I'm not sure I can speak to this with much authority. Just looking over the various batteries in my shop, I note that attache terminals range from stamped (relatively thin sheet metal), to what must be cast or perhaps molded (lead tab about 1/4" thick) to female threaded bushings that are nearly flush with the top of the battery. The common thread with all of the batteries I have in hand is what appears to be a poured epoxy seal around the terminal. I think the terminals on flooded batteries were simply pressed through holes in the case but I can't tell by looking at the battery in my wife's Saturn . . . it's a side-terminal battery with close fitting recesses and I can't tell what technique was used to effect a seal between terminal and case. We know that an RG battery must be gas tight . . . otherwise, the recombinant gas technology is compromised and the battery will fail. This means the manufacturer has to go the extra mile to insure a seal between terminal post and case. The battery in the Saturn is a new so-called "maintenance free" but I can hear it slosh . . . this means it's probably got vents to atmosphere and a less stringent requirement for sealing around the terminals. I think you can probably get a superior seal around any terminal with the epoxy potting. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Antenna Analyzer
Bob In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna analyzer? I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at $25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs it was too much work to justify the service. An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to do the job . . . The instrument I used to rent got sold on Ebay and I replaced it with the later model for my shop. You can view/purchase it at: http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html and http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something like this back in my two-way radio technician days! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Antenna Analyzer
Date: Jun 30, 2001
This is a common piece of test equipment for Amateur Radio Operators. Ask around, there may be more in your area than you may think. Carl Froehlich (KV4U) RV-8A (systems install) Vienna, VA -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Analyzer Bob In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna analyzer? I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at $25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs it was too much work to justify the service. An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to do the job . . . The instrument I used to rent got sold on Ebay and I replaced it with the later model for my shop. You can view/purchase it at: http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html and http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something like this back in my two-way radio technician days! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Melvinke(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
The Governor does not require a relay. Works well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Dual switches?
Date: Jun 30, 2001
Bob: I see your point so what relay do I need to wire the grip switches to the trim & flaps? Do I need a relay for each function? What do I need to procure and does your relay come with a wiring diagram? Also Bob thanks for the prompt reply as I just place a parts order this morning! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual switches? > > > > > >Comments/Questions: I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small switch in ea grip YET still use switches on the panel if needed. What do I need to do this? Relays? How do I wire? > > Why would you want to add complexity to your system and use > up panel space to duplicate functions already in place on the > grip? Loss of functionality of either pitch trim or > flap positioning doesn't put the airplane into any immediate > hazard and in most cases, has only a small effect on pilot > workload. > > What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't > see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system > reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really > gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out > the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability > into the grips-only switching system and save some time and > dollars in the process . . . > > > Bob . . . > > ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) > ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) > ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) > ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) > ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) > ( Charles Kettering ) > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/30/01
Date: Jul 01, 2001
I'm not an expert in battery technology either, but I believe all the new car batteries have "RG" technology - they use a different lead alloy that reduces - not eliminates - outgassing during charging. They are claimed to be "maintenance free," but are still vented and can be refilled with water by simply prying the caps off. Put a screwdriver under the large rectangular covers and you can just pop them off and refill the battery just like any other. Prolongs the life a little as they usually die when they finally run out of water. original message: We know that an RG battery must be gas tight . . . otherwise, the recombinant gas technology is compromised and the battery will fail. This means the manufacturer has to go the extra mile to insure a seal between terminal post and case. The battery in the Saturn is a new so-called "maintenance free" but I can hear it slosh . . . this means it's probably got vents to atmosphere and a less stringent requirement for sealing around the terminals. I think you can probably get a superior seal around any terminal with the epoxy potting. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lonnie Wood" <lonnwood(at)msn.com>
Subject: grip switches
Date: Jul 01, 2001
Does anybody have part numbers for switches that are used in control grips? Lonnie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergkyle" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca>
Subject: MFJ Antenna analyzer
Date: Jul 01, 2001
"In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna analyzer?" Bob: " I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at $25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs it was too much work to justify the service." I have an MFJ 259 - ham radio device which I won at a hamfest (radio festival - not a swine convention). Here they do away with the better part of $500 Canadian, so not something to fritter away. Also, they are extremely sensitive to any power variance. You power them with the switch OFF, then selct ON otherwise the surge blows their little brains out. Also a stranger forgets and puts a 1/10Watt though them and they fall strangely 'silent'. Therefore, while I gave it to my Amateur Radio club, I kept it and do not loan out, but visit and measure as a service. It's the only way. " An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to do the job . . . The instrument I used to rent got sold on Ebay and I replaced it with the later model for my shop. You can view/purchase it at: http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html and http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B" True, true but have we lost all skills learnt in the Depression? Usually, volunteers come through when commerce and goverrnments fail - that's the measure of citizenship. 'Hams" cannot charge for services, so why not intrigue the local radio club to measure and recommend antenna work? (a) The older guys will rise to the challenge (and be interested to see your baby) since construction is more and more toward antennas, rather than surface-mount machinery, and (b) ...somebody in the club will have the -259 and be willing to use it for you. Local clubs can be found be approaching the American Radio Relay league for a contact. It works usually..... Ferg Europa A064 Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something like this back in my two-way radio technician days! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: grip switches
> >Does anybody have part numbers for switches that are used in control grips? >Lonnie There are dozens . . . you need to decide if you want toggles, rockers, slide switches, push-buttons, etc. Where are you buying your grip? If from Infinity, it can be ordered with a combination of switches that meet your needs. If you're building from scratch, you need to research the realm of affordable miniature switches. Start at: http://www.ckcorp.com/download.shtml down in the lower half of this index you'll find listings for 7000 and 8000 series switch catalogs that will give you an excellent starting point for selecting and procuring the switches you need. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
> >I'm not an expert in battery technology either, but I believe all the new >car batteries have "RG" technology - they use a different lead alloy that >reduces - not eliminates - outgassing during charging. They are claimed to >be "maintenance free," but are still vented and can be refilled with water >by simply prying the caps off. Put a screwdriver under the large >rectangular covers and you can just pop them off and refill the battery just >like any other. Prolongs the life a little as they usually die when they >finally run out of water. This genre' of flooded battery has been around for a long time. Virtually every product offered at the consumer battery outlets for cars lack obvious means for checking or maintaining water levels. The battery I just replaced in my wife's Saturn was "maintenance free" as was the Wall Mart super-warranty battery I replaced it with. Neither battery appeared to have any kind of cover I could remove without doing serious damage to the battery. I do recall some flooded batteries of 10-20 years ago when I was able to pry the caps up and gain access to liquid in the cells. I don't know how much of the physics in these batteries is shared with RG technology with respect to control of outgassing. Intuitively, there must be SOMETHING to reduce outgassing compared to batteries of yesteryear . . . else NONE would make it to warranty life. In my not so humble opinion, these so called maintenance free batteries are not suited for airplanes . . . the can leak, they contain relatively unrestrained liquid, and the PERFORM like a flooded battery . . . pretty poor compared to a real RG device. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Dual switches?
> >Bob: I see your point so what relay do I need to wire the grip switches to >the trim & flaps? Do I need a relay for each function? What do I need to >procure and does your relay come with a wiring diagram? >Also Bob thanks for the prompt reply as I just place a parts order >this morning! If you're using MAC servos . . . you can switch the tiny amount of current these draw through the switch right on the stick if you make the switch a two-pole, double throw, spring loaded to center. Or you can build your own "relay deck" using a pair of relays like our S704-1. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/s704inst.jpg Flap motors take a bit more snort and definitely needs a relay. Our S704-1 is also suitable here. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: MFJ Antenna analyzer
>I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the >effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at >$25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs >it was too much work to justify the service." I have an MFJ 259 - ham radio device which I won at a hamfest (radio festival - not a swine convention). Here they do away with the better part of $500 Canadian, so not something to fritter away. Also, they are extremely sensitive to any power variance. You power them with the switch OFF, then select ON otherwise the surge blows their little brains out. Also a stranger forgets and puts a 1/10Watt though them and they fall strangely 'silent'. Not sure what this problem is about. Was this about plugging in an external power supply? The MFJ-259 does have an external power jack . . . never found it very useful except to recharge internal ni-cads . . . and never ran ni-cads 'cause they don't store as much snort as an alkaline cell. If you don't have a well regulated external power supply, this might be a hazard to its internal works . . . but that is true of most electronic gizmos. With respect to the 1/10 watt issue, I suspect you're talking about people who inadvertently drove their comm transmitters into the device . . . this is a hazard to all high frequency counters and impedance bridges. If you buy an MFJ-259, never hook it directly to a transmitter to read it's frequency . . . a short whip antenna on the MFJ-259 will pick up enough radiated energy from the airplane's normal comm antenna to make an accurate frequency measurement. In the antenna measurement mode, there's no reason for a strong source of RF to be connected to the instrument -or- or radiated in close proximity to the antenna being evaulated. All of these hazards to the instrument are talked about in the instruction manual. It's not fragile if used properly but it doesn't take a real big hammer to break things if a few precautions common to all devices of this type are not observed. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: MFJ Antenna analyzer
Date: Jul 01, 2001
The MFJ-259 is a neat gadget - I have one myself - but it is definitely not up to the rigours of being rented out! If Fluke or HP made one, it would do - but it would cost a grand or two. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Batteries
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Jul 02, 2001
07/02/2001 09:06:25 AM Hi Bob, Can you direct me to a spec sheet on an RG battery for my RV-6 that would be applicable to my use. Its almost that time. Thanks Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
Date: Jul 02, 2001
Andrew, I did this in my RV-6. I am using DRE headsets so I emailed the tech support at DRE. They were very helpful. They sent a simple circuit diagram for a converter that included a 9 volt regulator, and some resistors and capacitors to clean up the output. I can send the diagram to you directly if you would like. Ken Harrill RV-6 -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Larkin [mailto:aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 7:37 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in series with the jack to make the headset see 9V? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
> > >Hi Bob, > >Can you direct me to a spec sheet on an RG battery for my RV-6 that would >be applicable to my use. Its almost that time. > >Thanks > >Eric Sure. Click here: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf You can take this data sheet into any battery store and if they can't sell you a Panasonic, they'll have at least one of dozens of manufacturers examples of this same battery. You should be able to get it from a storefront battery outlet in the neighborhood of $65 . . . if push come to shove you can order from Allied Electronics. Their catalog page for this battery is: http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=13.pdf They get $77 plus UPS shipping. B&C has this battery: http://bandcspecialty.com/Bc104-1.pdf Also, see the Yuasa NP18-12 at: http://www.mywebplace.com/yuasaspec.html These guys get about $65 + freight. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: W4PPN(at)aol.com
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that a lot of people would be interested in. Howard RV-8 wiring Mooresville, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Dual switches?
> >Why can't this guy just add another switch on the panel in parallel? He sure can . . . but what for? What is the value received for the effort/costs expended? Virtually every machine I can recall having worked with has but one switch for each task having to do with operating the machine. Electric trims have had manual mechanical backups but as near as I can remember, there have been no instances of dual electrical controls (oops, there ARE electric trim switches and ptt switches on the control yolks of both sides of most airplanes that have them). This doesn't mean that they cannot be added for reasons of convenience or appearance . . . just trying to get the reader to think through all the failure modes versus convenience issues before drilling more holes in his airplane. >> >I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small >> > switch in ea grip YET still use switches on the panel if needed. >> >What do I need to do this? Relays? How do I wire? >> >> What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't >> see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system >> reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really >> gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out >> the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability >> into the grips-only switching system and save some time and >> dollars in the process . . . Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
Date: Jul 02, 2001
Howard, The list does not allow attachments. I will have to send it to each list member's email address. Ken -----Original Message----- From: W4PPN(at)aol.com [mailto:W4PPN(at)aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that a lot of people would be interested in. Howard RV-8 wiring Mooresville, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: power jack for david clark headset
or provide your URL so that we can individually check it out. Ken Harrill wrote: > > Howard, > > The list does not allow attachments. I will have to send it to each list > member's email address. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: W4PPN(at)aol.com [mailto:W4PPN(at)aol.com] > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:01 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset > > > Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that > a lot of people would be interested in. > > Howard > RV-8 > wiring > Mooresville, NC > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Hottle" <jeffh(at)primatech.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2001
Subject: Re: Batteries
Current Digikey price for Panasonic LC-RD1217P is $41.65 (quantity 1). I recently bought 4 of them for a UPS at work. Shipping was surprisingly cheap. http://www.digikey.com Jeff Hottle > You should be able to get it from a storefront battery > outlet in the neighborhood of $65 . . . if push come to shove > you can order from Allied Electronics. Their catalog page > for this battery is: > >http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=13.pdf > > They get $77 plus UPS shipping. > > B&C has this battery: > >http://bandcspecialty.com/Bc104-1.pdf > > Also, see the Yuasa NP18-12 at: > >http://www.mywebplace.com/yuasaspec.html > > These guys get about $65 + freight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Servo supply.
> >> Matte Draille also sells a speed adjustable servo thru Matronics, called >> " The Govenor" it also has relays for multiple switches >> (pilot/co-pilot). Van's also sells it int heit catalog. > >Tell me more about it. Is it better than the one from Mac? > >I have the one from Mac already and I am under the impression that I have to >wire it up with two relays. Is there a better way? You can read about it here: http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm It's a solid state replacement for relays that ADDS the ability to set trim speed with a screwdriver adjustment. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: W4PPN(at)aol.com
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
Sorry Ken, I forgot that. Send me a copy if it is not too much trouble. w4ppn(at)aol.com Howard Cochran Mooresville, NC RV-8 Slooooow build ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: power jack for david clark headset
> >I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power >for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark >headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V >from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the >current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in >series with the jack to make the headset see 9V? The task is easy to do. This circuit is similar to the small dimmer we sell which you can see at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/dim5-14.jpg The schematic for this device is shown in the installation instructions at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/9013_ins.pdf You can get parts from most electronics suppliers. An LM317T, a 380 Ohm, 1/4 watt resistor. Substitute a 2400 Ohm, 1/4 watt resistor for the 910 Ohm reistor. A couple of capacitors rounds it out, . . . 10uf @ 25 volts is in the ballpark. Just put a short circuit across pins 1 and 4 of the assembly, eliminate the potentiometer, and volia! you've got a precision 9v regulator with excellent bus noise rejection. If you wanted to order the DIM5-14 from B&C without the potentiometer, you can put your own resistor in the connector between pins 1 and 4 to set the output to 9 volts. Since 2400 is needed and 910 is already in place, you would add a 1500 ohm resistor between pins 1 and 4 of the DIM5-14's connector. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
Date: Jul 02, 2001
Did you notice that the 20 amp is the same size and only weighs 5 more ozs and cost $5 more? Ross > Current Digikey price for Panasonic LC-RD1217P is $41.65 (quantity 1). I > recently bought 4 of them for a UPS at work. Shipping was surprisingly > cheap. > > http://www.digikey.com > > Jeff Hottle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: power jack for david clark headset
> > >Andrew, > >I did this in my RV-6. I am using DRE headsets so I emailed the tech >support at DRE. They were very helpful. They sent a simple circuit diagram >for a converter that included a 9 volt regulator, and some resistors and >capacitors to clean up the output. I can send the diagram to you directly >if you would like. > >Ken Harrill >RV-6 Ken, Could you send me a copy too please? thanks, Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: S-TEC autopilots
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Just thought I would give an update on my System 30 problems on my RG. S-TEC agreed to look at the units so I sent them back to Texas. They couldn't find anything wrong, but sent me different roll and pitch computers (yellow tagged "serviceable"). I tried them and couldn't believe the difference. Everything, including pitch stability and VOR tracking, work just as I would hope they would. Now, if these units are so different than the ones I had (which were also not the original, but worked the same), why can't S-TEC measure the difference. One sure symptom was that after forcing a positive overshoot by engaging altitude hold during a climb the previous unit would continue moving the wheel forward all the time the altitude was high, even when diving back down to the set point. The new one starts moving the wheel back when the altitudes starts to close in on the set point - before actually getting there. Totally different response. One good thing S-TEC did the whole thing for nothing, including overnight Saturday delivery (of course, they should have done it 3 years ago). Thanks for all the replies to my original questions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com>
Subject: S-TEC autopilots
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Perhaps the recession is bringing out the best in them? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Casey Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:27 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: S-TEC autopilots Just thought I would give an update on my System 30 problems on my RG. S-TEC agreed to look at the units so I sent them back to Texas. They couldn't find anything wrong, but sent me different roll and pitch computers (yellow tagged "serviceable"). I tried them and couldn't believe the difference. Everything, including pitch stability and VOR tracking, work just as I would hope they would. Now, if these units are so different than the ones I had (which were also not the original, but worked the same), why can't S-TEC measure the difference. One sure symptom was that after forcing a positive overshoot by engaging altitude hold during a climb the previous unit would continue moving the wheel forward all the time the altitude was high, even when diving back down to the set point. The new one starts moving the wheel back when the altitudes starts to close in on the set point - before actually getting there. Totally different response. One good thing S-TEC did the whole thing for nothing, including overnight Saturday delivery (of course, they should have done it 3 years ago). Thanks for all the replies to my original questions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Subject: Re: Batteries
The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. They tend to gas less but are still vented, although they have more traps or baffles to retain the acid. RG batteries are still vented, but they have a valve. The old wive's tale of batteries and concrete originated when batteries had tar cases, and the moisture from the concrete would make them discharge quickly. The newer batteries have plastic cases and may be stored on concrete. Steve Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
> >Did you notice that the 20 amp is the same size and only weighs 5 more ozs >and cost $5 more? > >Ross Yes . . . I'm not sure what that's all about. Take a peek at: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm You can see the recommended service for these two batteries is slightly different. The 20 a.h. version is "standby power" only. This suggests to me that they traded deep cycle service life for capacity by packing in more, thinner plates. I still recommend the 17 a.h. battery for your airplane. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
> >The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium >alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. They tend to gas less but >are still vented, although they have more traps or baffles to retain the >acid. RG batteries are still vented, but they have a valve. >The old wive's tale of batteries and concrete originated when batteries had >tar cases, and the moisture from the concrete would make them discharge >quickly. The newer batteries have plastic cases and may be stored on concrete. > >Steve >Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc. Excellent data points. I do recall reading about the 'tar' cases a lot of years ago . . . Skip Koss at Concord told me that the vents in his batteries are designed to open at about 1.5 psi overpressure. Under normal charge-discharge cycles, internal pressures of an RG battery are below atmospheric . . . this is why the battery's valves don't open at altitude causing any loss of internal gasses and moisture. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Subject: Wiring multiple audio sources
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer (rev limit). Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)? Other methods? Thanks, Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
Date: Jul 03, 2001
> > The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium > alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. *** Don't the lead-calcium batteries charge to a different voltage or something? Seems to me I remember that there was *some* effect requiring a recalibration of the charging system.... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel" <michelboucher594(at)home.com>
Subject: ELT going off
Date: Jul 03, 2001
My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the rear fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside there also. Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off his ACK ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions. Thanks for the help, Michel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: ELT going off
Date: Jul 03, 2001
> > My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the rear > fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside there > also. > Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off his ACK > ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions. > *** RFI. RF from the COM transmitter is getting into the ELT, either from the ELT's antenna, or straight through its case. The RF is being rectified by semiconductors inside the ELT and creating DC voltages that the ELT interprets as an airplane crash. Happens to radio hams all the time. You transmit, your neighbor's garage door opens. If it wasn't an ELT, I'd say stick an RF filter in the antenna line. Unfortunately, ELTs operate in the same frequency band as COM transmitters. So I would say your friend's options are * Move the COM antenna somewhere farther from the ELT * Move the ELT antenna somewhere farther from the COM antenna * Take the ELT apart and modify it so it is not sensitive to RF ( add bypass capacitors to the "sense" circuitry ) ( Maybe complain to ACK? ) * Get a different ELT that is not sensitive to RF. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: <jim(at)barlows.net>
Michel - I have the same thing happening on my Space Walker II with the ELT and comm antennae in the rear. I'm working on some grounding issues. If this helps, I'll let you know. Jim > > > My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the > rear fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside > there also. > Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off > his ACK ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions. > > Thanks for the help, > Michel > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring multiple audio sources
> > >I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer (rev limit). > >Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)? > >Other methods? > >Thanks, > >Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring). Would really recommend an audio isolation/mixing amplifer like I've shown at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf and . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf Individual monophonic audio coming into pins 2,3, or 4 of the schematic can be adjusted in relationship to the others by altering the value of the 470 ohm resistor. Make smaller to get louder, larger to get softer. You COULD put a small screwdriver adjust potentiometer on each input but once adjusted, they don't generally need further attention . . . hence the selected resistor value is a pretty good way to go too . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries
> >> >> The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium >> alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. > >*** Don't the lead-calcium batteries charge to a different voltage or >something? Seems to me I remember that there was *some* effect requiring a >recalibration of the charging system.... I've heard rumors to that effect but nobody seems to want to sign up to it as fact. It seems that modern batteries are more tolerant of voltage. The battery that was installed in my van when I bought ran better that three years. After it went belly up, I replaced it with an RG battery and checked the charging voltage. It was 15.1 VOLTS! I wasn't too happy with the idea of swapping out that 90A alternator just to fix the voltage. It occurred to me that the old battery didn't throw up it's hands in surrender for quite a few years. I left the alternator alone and two years later I replaced it when the big honker died. The new alternator puts out 14.4 volts. The same RG battery is in the car doing fine after getting it's socks beat off for two years. Bottom line is that I believe all the worrying about tightly controlled bus voltage in order to accommodate the battery may not be justified. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Good Battery Article
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Knew I'd seen this somewhere.... http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew Seefried" <seefried(at)oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Re: ELT going off
Date: Jul 03, 2001
Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: ELT going off
Date: Jul 04, 2001
> > Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that > connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF > was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew > *** Hmm, I forgot about the front panel console. If RF is getting in through that cord, you MIGHT be able to eliminate it by putting a ferrite on the cord. AKA "common mode choke". I think that such ferrites might be obtainable at your local Radio Shack. They come in two halves, with some kind of clip to put them together. You put the two halves around the wire, close to the ELT. If one doesn't do it, try two. Or three. You can also increase the poweer of a ferrite by winding the cable through it for a turn. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: power for headsets
Thanks for all the advice on using a voltage regulator. I will likely end up going this direction. I'm still interested in my original idea however -- using a resistor in series. Does anyone know a reason why this wouldn't work? Does the noise cancellation feature require exceptionally clean DC or have a fluctuating current draw? It would be a lot easier to implement and has a much lower parts count. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: power for headsets
> >Thanks for all the advice on using a voltage >regulator. I will likely end up going this direction. > I'm still interested in my original idea however -- >using a resistor in series. Does anyone know a reason >why this wouldn't work? Does the noise cancellation >feature require exceptionally clean DC or have a >fluctuating current draw? It would be a lot easier to >implement and has a much lower parts count. hey . . . give it a try . . . the worst thing that happens is that you have to do something different. I'd use a fairly hefty capacitor (10 uF or more at 15v or more) to bypass the downstream side of the resistor to ground. This does two things, it makes the new voltage source look more rigid to fluctuations in current draw and it filters off some of the noises that might reside on the incoming voltage from the bus . . . Let us know how it works out. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2001
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Coaxial Cables
Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference in reliability or losses? Thanks in advance. Richard Dudley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lehmansmtl" <lehmansmtl(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2) stereo
intercom with mono headsets
Date: Jul 04, 2001
(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6? b.) With the audio isolating/mixer amplifier shouldn't we have jacks to plug the headset directly into the A-200 to prevent amplifier failure being a COM failure? (2) My Softcom ATC-4PS panel mount intercom requires the mono headphone plugs pulled 1 click out of the jacks to use the COM with the intercom switched either OFF or PILOT ISOLATE. Switched to INTERCOM, the headphone plugs must be fully inserted for COM (and intercom) use. Is there some simple wiring/switch (relay?) arrangement anyone could suggest to make the pilot isolate mode available with the pilot's headphone plug fully inserted? (Softcom's suggested solution is to replace my 4 mono headsets with stereo headsets ... which I consider too costly.) Thanks, Mike __ > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring multiple audio sources > > > > > > > >I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer (rev limit). > > > >Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)? > > > >Other methods? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring). > > Would really recommend an audio isolation/mixing amplifer > like I've shown at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf > > and . . . > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf > Bob . . . NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
From: Wesley & Susan Knettle <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Antenna placement
Always thought the reason for certificated aircraft requiring 30" between antennas must have had some substance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
Subject: Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2)
stereo intercom with mono headsets
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
I don't have the A-200 manual here with me at work, but if I recall the built-in intercom only works during recieve mode, and only one station can transmit. I can check for sure tonight if you need the info. Rob (RV-6, sick of painting) >-----Original Message----- >FROM: lehmansmtl >TO: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >DATE: Wed 7/4/01 21:56 >SUBJECT: AeroElectric-List: Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2) stereo intercom with mono headsets > >(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why >have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna placement
> > >Always thought the reason for certificated aircraft requiring 30" >between antennas must have had some substance. First, it's not a "requirement" and while a useful suggestion, neither is it unique to certified aircraft. If an aircraft radio manufacturer had it's fondest dreams come true, every antenna connected to its product would be surrounded by 10 square feet of flat aluminum ground plane. No other conductors including antennas, vertical fins, etc. would be out of sight over the horizon. Give that we don't live in a perfect world, there are compromises from the ideal which must be tried and evaluated for its utility. This may mean that you have to mount a pair of antennas less than 30" apart . . . I've worked on several airplanes where up to three antennas on fuselage centerline that probably averaged less than 20" apart . . . if the radios were working, the pilot says things were working "just fine" . . . Could they work "better"? Most certainly. But terms like "better" and "just fine" have no quantitative value. "Just fine" for this pilot may have fallen short of expectations for another pilot. Bottom line is the rules-of-thumb are exactly that. A starting point for investigation as whether any particular arrangement of equipment will meet YOUR needs. Be wary of terms like "required" and "certified" or any other adjective that exudes certainty. I'll suggest that the use of these terms have no value in the real world of physics nor do they replace a determination as to whether or not the installation is suited to your task. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables
> >Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of >the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case >the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS >catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and >the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference >in reliability or losses? >Thanks in advance. > >Richard Dudley Couple of reasons . . . a relatively minor reason is for signal loss. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/antenna/coaxloss.pdf RG-400 is certainly lower loss coax but the length of feedlines used in most airplanes doesn't represent a large performance issue. RG-58 has been used successfully in airplanes since WWII . . . Which leads directly into the biggest reason for RG-400 over RG-58 . . . The older coax uses polyethylene and PVC for insulation. Further, while "RG-58" used to be a term defined by a military specification for materials and performance, that spec is obsolete and no longer maintained by the military. This means that anyone can put the term "RG-58" on any combination of wire and plastic that they so choose and you have no assurances of performance based on the original specification. Finally, RG-58 has been disallowed on certified ships because of the insulating materials . . . and their behavior in a fire. Quite frankly, this issue is way down on the list of my concerns in terms of materials choices for new aircraft construction. The biggest advantage of RG-400 for the amateur builder is longevity of performance because the new coax uses more modern materials that are cousins to wire like Tefzel (22759) and Rayhem Spec 55. If you chose not to wire your airplane with PVC insulated wire in favor of the superior performance of Tefzel, why would you poke a piece of Poly-E/PVC insulated coax into the airplane? Compared to the cost of everything else you've purchased to include in your project, cost of choosing the very best available wire over the kind of stuff you find in a 1960's Cessna is trivial. You guys are building the best airplanes to have ever flown . . . take care lest your "Scotch" ancestry blurs your decision making processes. . . Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 05, 2001
Subject: Re:noise canceling power supply
Headsets Inc. uses an isolated DC to DC converter to supply clean voltage to their converted headsets. You would want the cleanest DC you can get for noise canceling headphones. A simple resistor probably wouldn't be the best. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables
Date: Jul 05, 2001
> Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of > the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case > the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS > catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and > the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference > in reliability or losses? > Thanks in advance. > > Richard Dudley Yes, as far as I'm concerned there are compelling reasons for selecting RG-400U. Bob Nuckolls has explained the difference, which I tried to find to include here but apparently have misplaced. If you search his site I'm sure you'll find it somewhere... www.aeroelectric.com. Randy Lervold RV-8, N558RL, 54 hrs. www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring multiple audio sources
Date: Jul 05, 2001
> I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer (rev limit). > > Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)? > > Other methods? Did this ever get answered? I have the same question except as applied to my PS Engineering PM300 intercom. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200
> > >(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why >have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6? good question . . . does the A-200 accept auxiliary inputs from other audio sources? > b.) With the audio isolating/mixer amplifier shouldn't we have jacks >to plug the headset directly into the A-200 to prevent amplifier failure >being a COM failure? not a bad idea . . . but suppose you DO have a Comm failure what's your backup . . . and would that same backup cover the case for a failed audio isolation amplifier? >(2) My Softcom ATC-4PS panel mount intercom requires the mono headphone >plugs pulled 1 click out of the jacks to use the COM with the intercom >switched either OFF or PILOT ISOLATE. Switched to INTERCOM, the headphone >plugs must be fully inserted for COM (and intercom) use. Is there some >simple wiring/switch (relay?) arrangement anyone could suggest to make the >pilot isolate mode available with the pilot's headphone plug fully inserted? >(Softcom's suggested solution is to replace my 4 mono headsets with stereo >headsets ... which I consider too costly.) How about rewiring your mono headsets for stereo? You can put new wires and plugs on that allow you to separate the right an left earphones into stereo circuits. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
Subject: Re: Wiring multiple audio sources
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
Randy, Not as of yet. I had a private reply (thanks B.L.) indicating a solution was in the archives, but I could not find it. I did e-mail Flightcom, and the said it would work, though with varying volume if impedences deviated from 600 ohms. Let me know if you find out anything from PS. Rob Acker (RV-6) -----Original Message----- FROM: Randy Lervold DATE: Thu 7/5/01 10:22 SUBJECT: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring multiple audio sources > I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer (rev limit). > > Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)? > > Other methods? Did this ever get answered? I have the same question except as applied to my PS Engineering PM300 intercom. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables
Date: Jul 05, 2001
> > The biggest advantage of RG-400 for the amateur builder > is longevity of performance because the new coax uses *** I can expand on this. As you install that RG-58, think of how happy you will be tearing it out and installing new, ten years hence. RG58 starts to age the instant it comes off the wiremaking machine. Hams are warned to buy RG-58 or RG-8 from a store that turns a lot of it over, so it won't have sat on the shelf for long. That even goes for brand name stuff, like Belden. And, since there's no MIL spec anymore, your guess is as good as mine what kind of chewing gum is in the off-brand stuff. To my mind, there are only two disadvantages to RG-400 * It's heavy ( Heft a hunk of it, you can tell the difference ) * It's expensive. ( O my wallet is light.... Well, we've got an expensive hobby. I just paid $301 plus shipping for a ten-dollar Stewart-Warner gauge that says "Beech" on the front ) - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Oil Pressure Idiot Light?
Date: Jul 05, 2001
Hello, I have discovered that there's an inop gauge in my airplane ( Oh NO!!!! ). It's the Hobbs meter ( whew, that's all right, then ). :) Since I don't rent the airplane out, I really have no need for a Hobbs meter. However, I seem to remember that Hobbs meters usually run off an oil pressure switch. Would there be any point to hooking the Hobbs switch up to a big red warning light? Or are these switches calibrated such that when they go on, the engine has already blown? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <glassman(at)tns.net>
Subject: Re duplicate trim switches.
Date: Jul 05, 2001
I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his needs. Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: noise canceling power supply
> >Headsets Inc. uses an isolated DC to DC converter to supply clean voltage to >their converted headsets. You would want the cleanest DC you can get for >noise canceling headphones. A simple resistor probably wouldn't be the best. > >Steve A resistor -AND- capacitor combination CAN equal or be even cleaner than the output of a DC-DC converter . . . an important feature of DC-DC converters is the ability of some models to have outputs that are totally insulated from the inputs. This can be important for the elimination of the effects of ground loops and/or special requirements of the powered system to NOT have any power leads common to the rest of the system. Take an ohmmeter and get the resistance measurement from the battery (-) lead of the amplifier power input and the ground lead for signal input . . . in some cases these are one in the same connection and a resistance measurement is not needed. If you read a substantial resistance value between these two leads . . . say greater than 10 ohms, it's possible that a simple resistor/capacitor supply would defeat a requirement of the headset's electronics. When push comes to shove, it's never a bad idea to talk to the folks who designed the product and ask their recommendations both for YOUR and THEIR fondest wishes . . . what you want to do may very well do just fine. While we can trade around lots of e-mails and thrash shovels full of conjecture, there's no substitute for facts from the designer. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Idiot Light?
> >Hello, > > I have discovered that there's an inop gauge in my airplane ( Oh NO!!!! >). It's the Hobbs meter ( whew, that's all right, then ). > > :) > > Since I don't rent the airplane out, I really have no need for a Hobbs >meter. However, I seem to remember that Hobbs meters usually run off an >oil pressure switch. > > Would there be any point to hooking the Hobbs switch up to a big red >warning light? Or are these switches calibrated such that when they >go on, the engine has already blown? > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) Unless you've purchased a high-dollar, "aircraft" pressure switch, the device is probably automotive and will transfer contacts in the 4-10 psi range. The switch we sell is just such a device. I recommend that it be wired as shown in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf where a light a perhaps a buzzer annunciates low oil pressure. The BIGGEST value of this light and noise maker is to avoid walking away from the airplane with the master or essential bus alternate feed switches left on. Of course, the other side of the switch operates the hourmeter . . . it's reasonable to assume that if the light is OFF, the other side of the switch is closed and the hourmeter is powered. This doesn't guarantee that it is running. The hour meter is powered directly from the battery bus while the light/buzzer is powered from the e-bus . . . the hour meter fuse could be open and you wouldn't know it. Our rental aircraft all had Hobbs meters on panel and we used the reading for calculating rental charges. Some hour meters have annunciators on the front that show they are powered and operating. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: duplicate trim switches.
> >I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near >the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice >gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an >experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his >needs. >Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res). What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a hazardous or even uncomfortable position? If the trim system IS that powerful, does it have TOO much authority or speed with respect to convenient operation of the airplane? It's been my experience that "novices" are so timid that they tend not to input enough force to initially control the airplane. They're not likely to be pushing lots of buttons either. You may not be a CFI but when you offer the controls to anyone, you need to take on that posture. Explain things, follow through, be attentive to what's going on, be ready to take it back if necessary. Would you want an instructor to "disable" any features on your side of the airplane because of his uncertainty as to what you will do? I'd put the same switches on the right side and then teach guests how and when to use them. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: ELT going off
> >> >> Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that >> connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF >> was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew >> >*** Hmm, I forgot about the front panel console. If RF is getting in >through that cord, you MIGHT be able to eliminate it by putting a ferrite >on the cord. AKA "common mode choke". I think that such ferrites might >be obtainable at your local Radio Shack. They come in two halves, with >some kind of clip to put them together. You put the two halves around the >wire, close to the ELT. If one doesn't do it, try two. Or three. You >can also increase the poweer of a ferrite by winding the cable through >it for a turn. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) Jerry, do you have any notion as to why the ELT trigger system is sensitive to RF intrusion? I'd think that hard switch contacts operated by acceleration forces would be used to turn on an ELT . . . I'm mystified that a product ostensibly tested to the TSO for ELT's would have this difficulty. Has anyone talked to the factory about this? Folks, this makes three or four cases I can recall in the last month were we mount enthusiastic discussions about how to deal with the characteristics of a manufactured device . . . discussions that can go on for days with nary a data point from the factory quoted by anyone. I'm seeing the same kind of phenomenon in problem discussions at my workplace . . . so please don't feel that I'm trying to paste pejorative labels on this group or any individual. In my various assignments on the heavy iron, I've learned that it is critical to get as far back as possible in the design/fabrication and delivery trail for assistance with root causes of difficulty. I'm just wrapping up a task wherein I discovered a $10 change to a product 8 years ago that has generated over $10,000,000 (yes . . . that's the right number of zeros!) in warranty losses and untold damage to customer confidence. These losses were accompanied with a great deal of discussion, claims, counter-claims and finger pointing. The root cause was based on a simple fact that was SOOOoooooo simple that nobody was willing to carefully consider it. Get on the manufacturer's website, talk to or e-mail customer service. Get the phone number of a design engineer that has responsibility for the product. If you find that you can't ask the right questions or perhaps don't understand the answers, then drop me a line and I'll get into the loop. Any one of you can do this and get the ball rolling. Let's throw away the crystal balls and learn to be real detectives. It took me too many years to acquire these skills . . . we in the Owner Built and Maintained Aircraft industry are already doing much better than our bothers on the certified side . . . can do better still. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Good Battery Article
> >Knew I'd seen this somewhere.... > > http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) A well written and documented piece . . . I'm going to contact the author for permission to .pdf the thing and keep it posted on our website. Bob . . . ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education ) ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is ) ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. ) ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep ) ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. ) ( Charles Kettering ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Good Battery Article
Date: Jul 06, 2001
> > > > >Knew I'd seen this somewhere.... > > > > http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) > > > A well written and documented piece . . . I'm going to contact > the author for permission to .pdf the thing and keep it posted > on our website. > *** Note the link at the bottom "Additional information can be found at various places on the Internet", this leads to a "Car Battery FAQ", which has even more useful information. The Bottom of the FAQ has a list of links to battery manufacturers, charger manufacturers, and in general, more info about batteries than any sane person would want or need :). - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: duplicate trim switches.
> >I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near > >the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice > >gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an > >experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his > >needs. > >Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res). > > What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system > so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a > hazardous or even uncomfortable position? The trim system on the Europa is very powerful (all flying tail) and also very fast operating. Often a 1 second burst is enough to retrim and its sometimes hard to trim accurately. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2001
From: Wesley & Susan Knettle <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Antenna's
Bob, Thanks for the verbal lashing. Didn't realize my one sentence without 3 or 4 attached messages would generate a 4 paragraph dissortation. I only wished to point out that the ELT should be located so far aft that it's antenna's location wouldn't possibly interfere or conflict with the nav-coms. My certificated aircraft comment was based on FAA 337 requirements which the experimentals don't need to putts with. I find your site very helpful and informative even though I'm not a homebuilder, I just ply my trade on certified airframes. (Or should I call them factory built?) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: duplicate trim switches.
> >> What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system >> so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a >> hazardous or even uncomfortable position? > >The trim system on the Europa is very powerful (all flying tail) and also >very fast operating. Often a 1 second burst is enough to retrim and its >sometimes hard to trim accurately. Which suggests that some consideration to design changes are in order. Many kits have designed too much authority into the pitch trim travel and/or aerodynamics. Lots of electric trim systems run too quickly for convenient and accurate control of trim. If it were my airplane, I'd find the two extremes of pitch trim that accommodate the full range of gross weights and weight/balance that I'm likely to encounter. Then install hard mechanical stops such that under no circumstances will the trim system be driven to any point outside those limits. The next step is to adjust the speed of the electric trim such that a .3 to .5 second blip on the trim switch will produce a barely perceptible trim change at cruise speeds. If this is also too slow for adequate trim speed in the approach configuration, then a two speed system can be easily implemented by installing some form of electrical power regulator. More than one accident has befallen the amateur airplane builder because these simple steps (required on all certified ships) were not taken to prevent a trim system failure or accidental switch operation from becoming a disaster. A kitfox builder I know totalled his relatively new airplane when a stuck trim switch drove pitch forces to unexpected levels on takeoff . . . being a skittery tail dragger, the distraction in pitch compounded his directional control problems. The airplane went off the runway and down over a rocky embankment. This is a simple thing to do on your airplane during the 25-40 hour fly-off . . . don't just bore holes in the sky . . . find out EVERYTHING there is to know about your airplane and get effective chains installed on the dogs that can bite . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna's
> >Bob, >Thanks for the verbal lashing. Didn't realize my one sentence without 3 >or 4 attached messages would generate a 4 paragraph dissortation. I only >wished to point out that the ELT should be located so far aft that it's >antenna's location wouldn't possibly interfere or conflict with the >nav-coms. sorry if I came on too strong . . . people who have known me for years have learned to put up with my tirades against ignorant faith in authority and/or regulation when it comes to physics and common sense. Words like "requirements" and "certified" are real hot-buttons with me. An ignorant public buys off on too much stuff offered as state-of-the-art products because they are blessed by equally ignorant regulatory agencies. I understand your concerns and I recognize that all you have to go on is what is handed down through 'ol mechanic's tales or manufacturer's fondest wishes as spelled out in their installation instructions. I'm just trying to get people to be skeptical of instructions that have no data . . . like "antenna's location wouldn't possibly interfere or conflict" . . . what does that mean? Please understand while an army travels on its stomach, a technology moves forward on its numbers. I'm doing my best to encourage precise speech as the path to real understanding. I've learned more about systems design and critical thinking working the homebuilts than I ever did working in the factories. > My certificated aircraft comment was based on FAA 337 >requirements which the experimentals don't need to putz with. I find >your site very helpful and informative even though I'm not a >homebuilder, I just ply my trade on certified airframes. (Or should I >call them factory built?) "Factory built" works . . . I call 'em "heavy iron" in recognition of the fact that a lot of what they carry around in the name of safety and/or regulatory correctness costs more, adds no value, and may even degrade safety -and- performance. Welcome to the Aero-Electric List . . . nobody here will hold your career against you! My daytime job too is hammering on the big iron birds . . . then I come home to have fun with real airplanes. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------ < "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of > < thinking we used when we created them." > < Albert Einstein > ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2001
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables
Thanks, Randy. Bob also answered my question. I'm convinced. Richard Dudley Do no archive Randy Lervold wrote: > > > > Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of > > the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case > > the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS > > catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and > > the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference > > in reliability or losses? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Richard Dudley > > Yes, as far as I'm concerned there are compelling reasons for selecting > RG-400U. Bob Nuckolls has explained the difference, which I tried to find to > include here but apparently have misplaced. If you search his site I'm sure > you'll find it somewhere... www.aeroelectric.com. > > Randy Lervold > RV-8, N558RL, 54 hrs. > www.rv-8.com > Home Wing VAF > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Military stick grip
Date: Jul 07, 2001
Hi Bob & List I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the shielded wire from the trigger switch? Ed Perry edperry64(at)netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Military stick grip
If it's a real military grip, almost all of the buttons/switches are held in by Allen head sockets. Then, put some heat shrink around the portion of the shielding that runs down the stick. Boyd. Ed Perry wrote: > > > Hi Bob & List > > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach > shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to > get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the > shielded wire from the trigger switch? > > Ed Perry > edperry64(at)netzero.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Military stick grip
Date: Jul 07, 2001
No allen heads here. It is military. It has a 2 position trigger, 4 position coolie hat and a single on/off switch next to the coolie hat labeled Landing Light. It has one screw with a nut around it coming out the right side, that cannot be moved. One tension screw on top for the trigger pull and the trigger is held in by a pin that was melted into the case for the hinge. I doubt I will be able to get inside it without destroying it. Ed Perry edperry64(at)netzero.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Boyd C. Braem <bcbraem(at)home.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Military stick grip > > If it's a real military grip, almost all of the buttons/switches are > held in by Allen head sockets. Then, put some heat shrink around the > portion of the shielding that runs down the stick. > > Boyd. > > Ed Perry wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bob & List > > > > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have > > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch > > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire > > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach > > shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to > > get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the > > shielded wire from the trigger switch? > > > > Ed Perry > > edperry64(at)netzero.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Military stick grip
> > Ed Perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Bob & List > > > > > > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have > > > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch > > > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire > > > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach > > > shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to > > > get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the > > > shielded wire from the trigger switch? > > > > > > Ed Perry > > > edperry64(at)netzero.net I would just connect your wire to the wire coming out of the grip. All the PTT switch does is ground a 'sense' line coming from the radio. If you have problems (very unlikely), you can always find some scrap shielded cable that's larger diameter than what you are using, pull the center conductors out of it, & slide the shield/insulation that's left over the wires entering the grip. Then just solder the shields together to supply shielding up into the grip. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Military stick grip
Date: Jul 08, 2001
> > Hi Bob & List > > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach > shielded wire to that what will happen? *** I think it'll be just fine. I don't understand why people use shielded wire for PTT's anyway, it's just a DC control line. Maybe Bob knows better? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Bob, Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include LOM wireing diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are available. Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards Oshkosh) has extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by the radios. The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to your Z1 diagram, shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto. The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the magnetos. The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator is active. The radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in the fiberglass shell. I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if you have any suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks that the p-lead/mag switch setup is suspect. I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago. They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing. The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm mystified as to why you're having this problem. If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator (MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are not responsible for the noise problem. I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto. Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary? Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's relevant but it would be good to know. I am planning to do a an addition to the power distribution diagrams that is specific to the LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too bad that they continue to use a brush type generator but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa 1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at least replace this critter with a solid state design. Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Military stick grip
> >Hi Bob & List > >I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have >chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch >that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire >coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach >shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to >get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the >shielded wire from the trigger switch? > >Ed Perry >edperry64(at)netzero.net Check out the wiring diagrams for the MicroAir 760VHF as posted on my website. Download: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v1.pdf and http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v2.pdf You will find these drawings easier to read than those supplied with the radio. Further, they do NOT call out shielded wire for the PTT line . . . shielding of this line is not necessary. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Current Limiter Light
>Bob: > >Any thought on using a light to indicate a blown current limiter, such as on >a Learjet? It seems simple to fabricate, I would like to explore this on my >RV-8 for the alternator B lead, as well as main bus feed. Why would you want to do this? If you have a low-voltage warning light, it will illuminate seconds after the fuse in series with the alternator opens. The ONLY reason this fuse will ever open is if the wire between the starter contactor and the alternator has hard faulted to ground (very rare) or you have a pair of diodes in the alternator shorted (also very rare) . . . I can see no value in annunciating this event when you'll have so many solid indications of the event from other sources. Main bus feed limiter ???? why are you putting one in? Just 'cause a Lear's got one doesn't mean it's good for every airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Ground strap ?
>Hello 'lectric Bob, > >I happened onto your website during one of my nightly airplane surfing sessions. If you have time perhaps you could answer a question that I have been curious about for years. Why are ground straps usually fabricated out of a flat braided conductor? There must be a reason. Thanks! > >Jack Horton >Columbus, Ohio They need to be VERY flexible . . . they can be either flat or round, it doesn't matter. But they do need to be made of lots of very fine wire so that engine vibration with respect to airframe doesn't start breaking strands. You could use a piece of 2AWG welding cable too . . . Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Power Distribution Diagram for LOM
> > >Bob, > >Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include LOM wireing >diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are available. Why wait? I spent an hour modifying an existing diagram and posted it at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lom.pdf Since you're working with an LOM, you might do me the favor of comparing this drawing with your factory documentation . . . looking for errors of wiring, part numbers, and artifacts of the original 14V alternator system that should have been pulled off. 600W is a fairly hefty generator. This would be just over 22Amps. In a 28V system, you should be able to run about anything you'll need. I've added ov protection for both the airplane AND the generator. If wired per the factory drawings, if the regulator sticks and even if you successfully disconnect the alternator from the bus, the ov condition will still toast the generator's field. Hence the addition of two relays controlled by the panel mounted DC Master. If anyone else on the list is working with the LOM engine, let's talk. You guys can help trim up this drawing for publication in Revision 10. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/08/01
Date: Jul 09, 2001
I've also been told that a flat braided wire conducts very high frequencies better than a small round conductor. Exactly why a battery ground needs this feature is not so sure. Certainly you do want the connection between the "chassis" and engine to be good at high frequencies. some cars have ground straps to the hood and these occasionally are braided - supposedly for the same reason. Although I suspect Bob is right and the real reason is flexibility. Observe the new Aerosance Electronic ignition and they use a braided conductor to ground two parts of the system to each other - for EMI reasons. >I happened onto your website during one of my nightly airplane surfing sessions. If you have time perhaps you could answer a question that I have been curious about for years. Why are ground straps usually fabricated out of a flat braided conductor? There must be a reason. Thanks! > >Jack Horton >Columbus, Ohio They need to be VERY flexible . . . they can be either flat or round, it doesn't matter. But they do need to be made of lots of very fine wire so that engine vibration with respect to airframe doesn't start breaking strands. You could use a piece of 2AWG welding cable too . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Cartwright" <ccart(at)stanford.edu>
Subject: wire connection
Date: Jul 09, 2001
What is a simple/reliable way to join two wires that will go into a Pidge connector? a) Should I just put them both in a larger connector and crimp? b)Should I strip a long area of one wire and solder them together, heat shrink and then put one wire in a connector to be crimped? c)Other method? Thanks, Chris Palo Alto, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
> >What is a simple/reliable way to join two wires that will go into a Pidge >connector? >a) Should I just put them both in a larger connector and crimp? Yes . . . >b)Should I strip a long area of one wire and solder them together, heat >shrink and then put >one wire in a connector to be crimped? No . . . >c)Other method? No . . . It's very common practice to put multiple strands into a single crimp. In fact, I just finished a design were up to 8 22AWG wires will be joined together in one end of a yellow PIDG splice and a 12AWG wire will carry the pathway on from the other side. Just make sure all strands go in together, all insulations have to be inside the metal sleeve of the insulation grip. A good tug on the wire bundle (and individual condutors) confirms that all conductors are included in the wire grip crimp. . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marshall Robert <rmarshall@pilatus-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
Date: Jul 10, 2001
I seem to recall (from I don't know where) that you should only do this with odd numbers, 1, 3, 5 etc. Bob Marshall It's very common practice to put multiple strands into a single crimp. In fact, I just finished a design were up to 8 22AWG wires will be joined together in one end of a yellow PIDG splice and a 12AWG wire will carry the pathway on from the other side. Just make sure all strands go in together, all insulations have to be inside the metal sleeve of the insulation grip. A good tug on the wire bundle (and individual condutors) confirms that all conductors are included in the wire grip crimp. . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Williams/SBW<sbw(at)sbw.org>
Date: Jul 10, 2001
Subject: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily: 1. Strip the wires. 2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out. 3. Lay the fans on top of one another. 4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave. 5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire. 6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector. 7. Crimp. This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector. But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the crimp because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a gas-tight piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush as nicely. Still, I've always had good results with this technique. Steve Williams http://www.sbw.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
Date: Jul 10, 2001
I'm using AMP CPC connectors that use #20 MIL pins/sockets (for 20 AWG). I need to run 16 AWG thru so I was going to solder the 16 AWG to two 20 AWG wires that can be crimped in the pins for the connector. Would I be better off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to two 20 AWG instead of soldering? I was going to switch to the series 1 CPC that has larger pin sizes available but I couldn't find the MIL pins for them so I'm sticking with the series 2 CPC that only accept 20 ga or less. Many a sleepless nite debating about using connectors vs straight wires and what type of connectors and pins. Any better ideas? We use EDAC at work and they have really nice crimped pins but the crimper and pins for the AMP CPC series 2 are the same as D-subs so it's convenient. I think it will only be for the one starter relay wire but the fuel pump and electronic ignition wires are also 16 AWG. They only draw 1.5 to 3 amps so I'm not sure why they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20 AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto itself and use a blue double-crimp butt splice? Gary K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Williams/SBW <sbw(at)sbw.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? > > At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily: > > 1. Strip the wires. > > 2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out. > > 3. Lay the fans on top of one another. > > 4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave. > > 5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire. > > 6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector. > > 7. Crimp. > > This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the > new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector. > > But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the crimp > because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands > packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an > optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a gas-tight > piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush as > nicely. > > Still, I've always had good results with this technique. > > Steve Williams > http://www.sbw.org/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2001
From: Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Shock mounting
I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post. Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments? It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. These instruments are quite expensive, while shock mounting stuff is not expensive both in terms of weight and cost. Also, it seems like the shock mount makes it easy to get at the instruments by easily pulling out the mounted panel. However, I see very few builders who shock mount their instruments. Why? Is there a definitive answer about this, or is it just a matter of personal taste? Thanks, Gary Liming ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Shock mounting
Date: Jul 10, 2001
> > > I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's > opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post. > > Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments? > > It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have > a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas > or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices > (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. *** OTOH, some of those mechanical instruments are _dependent_ on vibration to keep them moving freely. In fact, I think one of the tests in the TSO for altimeters and VSI's for example, is to test them to make sure that they will work withOUT vibration. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Shock mounting
This is a problem in sailplanes, where, sometimes, a vibrator has to be attached to the instrument panel to get the analog needles to move. The newer gyros seem to be free of this problem. About 2 yrs. ago I sent an inquiry to RC Allen, asking if I needed to shock/vibration mount their electric gyros. They replied "that it is not really necessary". Boyd. Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > > > > > > > I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's > > opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post. > > > > Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments? > > > > It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have > > a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas > > or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices > > (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. > > *** OTOH, some of those mechanical instruments are _dependent_ on vibration > to keep them moving freely. In fact, I think one of the tests in the TSO > for altimeters and VSI's for example, is to test them to make sure that they > will work withOUT vibration. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
> >I seem to recall (from I don't know where) that you should only do this with >odd numbers, 1, 3, 5 etc. > >Bob Marshall Haven't heard that one . . . numbers of wires doesn't make any difference. Keep in mind that when the wire grip is closed down on the strands, they become a single piece of metal . . . meaning that the joint is gas-tight. Nothing in the way of moisture or corrosive gasses can get in . . . When that much pressure is involved, it matters not how many wires you started with. At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily: 1. Strip the wires. 2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out. 3. Lay the fans on top of one another. 4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave. 5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire. 6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector. 7. Crimp. This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector. But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the crimp because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a gas-tight piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush as nicely. Still, I've always had good results with this technique. Steve Williams http://www.sbw.org/ You almost cannot miss getting a good joint as long as all of the strands can be coaxed into position in the terminal's wire grip volume . . . probably the easiest lay-up for acquiring a gas-tight joint is to have all the strands laying perfectly flat and parallel . . . but if twisting them together helps you get all of them in together, I don't think it hurts. When putting a lot of strands in the same crimp, I'll sometimes bundle the conductors using a length of rubber banding to get a really tight grip on the bundle and prevent one conductor from sliding with respect to the others. If all the butt ends of the conductors are even when you bundle them up, then the funnel shaped entry of the better grade terminals (PIDG or Waldom Avicrimp) will guide them into the right spot for crimping. Yes, the strip length might want to be a bit longer . . . say half again. I'm using AMP CPC connectors that use #20 MIL pins/sockets (for 20 AWG). I need to run 16 AWG thru so I was going to solder the 16 AWG to two 20 AWG wires that can be crimped in the pins for the connector. Would I be better off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to two 20 AWG instead of soldering? No, your on the right track . . . BUT . . . make the 20AWG segments some rather significant length (like about a foot if you can) before you bring them together for joining to the 16AWG. This is to put significant milliohms of wire in series with the two pins . . . much more milliohms than the resistance of the pins themselves. This extra resistance makes sure that the pins share the load. You only need to do this on one side of the connector . . . or perhaps 6" "ballast" resistors on both sides? I was going to switch to the series 1 CPC that has larger pin sizes available but I couldn't find the MIL pins for them so I'm sticking with the series 2 CPC that only accept 20 ga or less. Many a sleepless nite debating about using connectors vs straight wires and what type of connectors and pins. Any better ideas? We use EDAC at work and they have really nice crimped pins but the crimper and pins for the AMP CPC series 2 are the same as D-subs so it's convenient. Not a bad choice. I'm building a power distribution system for a new target that will take 40 amps through d-sub pins (10 pins paralleled with 22AWG/12" ballast resistors to force the pins into a load sharing mode. I think it will only be for the one starter relay wire but the fuel pump and electronic ignition wires are also 16 AWG. They only draw 1.5 to 3 amps so I'm not sure why they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20 AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto itself and use a blue double-crimp butt splice? Hmmmm . . . in this case, I'd splice onto them with 20AWG wires at the appliance and continue on through your connector with a single strand of 20AWG wire on one pin. Ignore the size of wire that comes out of the black boxes . . . wire it up with conductors and other materials rated to the task. Use a blue butt splice and double the 20AWG conductor back on itself. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2001
Subject: Re: Shock mounting
From: jilewy(at)juno.com
In ultra-lights it is common practice just so you can read the needles, not so much to protect them. In aircraft they might have some reason for it or they wouldn't spend all the money to have the shock mounts manufactured and installed in the aircraft. My flight instruments are shock mounted ( to protect them from my landings) my engine instruments are hard mounted. just an opinion mindya, as per request Jim > > > > I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like > Bob's > opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post. > > Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments? > > It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments > that have > a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments > or gas > or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state > devices > (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. These > instruments > are quite > expensive, while shock mounting stuff is not expensive both in terms > of > weight and cost. Also, it seems like the shock mount makes it easy > to get > at the instruments by easily pulling out the mounted panel. However, > I > see very few builders who shock mount their instruments. Why? > Is there a definitive answer about this, or is it just a matter of > personal > taste? > > Thanks, > > Gary Liming > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com>
Subject: Re: re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
Date: Jul 11, 2001
Bob, thanks very much for the answers. It's very reassuring to get some feedback. But I'm still a little confused - I'm sure it's just nit-picking on different techniques but you recommended splicing verses soldering for multiple conductors before. But below, you recommend soldering 16 AWG to two 20 AWG, but splicing from one 16 AWG to one 20 AWG (with the foldback on the wire). I would have guessed the other way around. It seems like either way would work fine but if your experience shows otherwise I'd rather follow your recommendations. Thanks again, Gary K. > Would I be better > off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to > two 20 AWG instead of soldering? > > No, your on the right track . . . BUT . . > ....they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20 > AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto itself > and use a blue double-crimp butt splice? > > Hmmmm . . . in this case, I'd splice onto them with 20AWG wires > at the appliance and continue on through your connector with > a single strand of 20AWG wire on one pin. Ignore the size of wire > that comes out of the black boxes . . . wire it up with conductors > and other materials rated to the task. Use a blue butt splice and > double the 20AWG conductor back on itself. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2001
From: Greg Amy <grega(at)pobox.com>
Subject: AMP Fusion Tape?
What's the general thoughts of the AMP Waterproof Fusion Tape (Manf #605262-1)? I'm considering it a companion to heat shrink tubing, especially on larger applications like battery cables. I ordered a couple rolls from Newark to check it out and I'm quite impressed. This is a rubber, stretchable, non-adhesive tape and it sticks to itself quite well. It's an insulator and is removable if necessary. Hell, I even tried it on a leaky garden hose and it worked great! I like this a hell of a lot better than regular adhesive electrical tape. Unless I hear of any longer-term problems with it I may use it quite a bit for insulating wires and blocks. Greg Amy Milford, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
> >Bob, thanks very much for the answers. It's very reassuring to get some >feedback. But I'm still a little confused - I'm sure it's just nit-picking >on different techniques but you recommended splicing verses soldering for >multiple conductors before. But below, you recommend soldering 16 AWG to >two 20 AWG, but splicing from one 16 AWG to one 20 AWG (with the foldback on >the wire). I would have guessed the other way around. It seems like either >way would work fine but if your experience shows otherwise I'd rather follow >your recommendations. > >Thanks again, Gary K. Check the indentation of the various paragraphs in my reply. One of the readers uses the word "solder" . . . I didn't. There's nothing wrong with solder . . . solder and crimped joints will both make entirely satisfactory joints in conductors. They simply require different tools, materials and skills. There is no difference in their respective service performance. The reference to "foldback" speaks to an occasional need to increase the number of strands inside the wire grip area of a crimped joint to bring the stranding up to a volume the terminal was designed for. The reference to foldback was made in a discussion about dealing with the OVERSIZED leadwire provided on one of products to be installed. A fuel pump that needed less than 3 amps to run was fitted with a 16AWG leadwire. Are you obligated to carry 16AWG all the way back to the bus? No . . . You COULD drop all the way down to 22AWG wire . . . in which case, soldering a 22AWG feeder to the 16AWG pigtail would be one way to do it. In this particular case, the connector was rated for 20-22AWG wire. I suggested that a blue butt splice (16-14AWG) could be used but a 20AWG wire in one end would have to be doubled back to increase the amount of copper in the wire grip area . . . Take a peek at this picture. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/22-16sp.jpg Knife splices make a neat way to joint dissimilar wires. In this case, the fuel pump could be fitted with a blue knife splice, the feeder from the bus could be as small as 22AWG . . . so put a red knife splice on it. Red and blue knife splices will interconnect . . . put a piece of heat shrink over the joint and you're done. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AMP Fusion Tape?
> >What's the general thoughts of the AMP Waterproof Fusion Tape (Manf >#605262-1)? I'm considering it a companion to heat shrink tubing, especially >on larger applications like battery cables. I ordered a couple rolls from >Newark to check it out and I'm quite impressed. > >This is a rubber, stretchable, non-adhesive tape and it sticks to itself >quite well. It's an insulator and is removable if necessary. Hell, I even >tried it on a leaky garden hose and it worked great! I like this a hell of a >lot better than regular adhesive electrical tape. > >Unless I hear of any longer-term problems with it I may use it quite a bit >for insulating wires and blocks. > >Greg Amy >Milford, CT This kind of product has been around for awhile. We use tons of it at RAC. You can also buy small rolls of it at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/slikstik/chem.html#s894 I just talked with Todd at B&C and he's going to look into stocking bigger rolls as well. It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector. I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need for any extra strain relief. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 13, 2001
Subject: Re: AMP Fusion Tape?
In a message dated 7/12/01 12:37:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: << It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector. I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need for any extra strain relief. >> Bob, Is this center line silicone rubber tape? Dale Ensing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AMP Fusion Tape?
> >In a message dated 7/12/01 12:37:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: > ><< It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant > to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under > the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle > where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector. > I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit > the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need > for any extra strain relief. > >> >Bob, >Is this center line silicone rubber tape? >Dale Ensing That's another common name for it. I've seen it offered with and without the center guideline but it's the same tape. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Date: Jul 15, 2001
Bob, My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two 50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. Resetting the breaker has the same results. Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? Marvin Mixon > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:52 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise > > > III" > > > Bob, > > Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include > LOM wireing > diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are > available. > > Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards > Oshkosh) has > extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by > the radios. > The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to > your Z1 diagram, > shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead > conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto. > The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the > magnetos. > The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator > is active. The > radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in > the fiberglass > shell. > > I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if > you have any > suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks > that the p-lead/mag > switch setup is suspect. > > I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring > diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European > style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring > of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago. > They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone > who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing. > > The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting > the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the > noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm > mystified as to why you're having this problem. > > If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll > refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and > ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator > (MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that > this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields > are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds > a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal > strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While > all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed > successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding > techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are > not responsible for the noise problem. > > I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise > suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto. > Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary? > Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type > recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors > from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's > relevant but it would be good to know. > > I am planning to do a an addition to the power > distribution diagrams that is specific to the > LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too > bad that they continue to use a brush type generator > but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient > and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator > depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa > 1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at > least replace this critter with a solid state design. > > Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect > that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 2001
From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
Subject: RCT-3 D-Sub crimp tool
Bob, This tool works great on the standard pins. I notice that the crimp on the high density pins is way at the end of the barrel, not a good crimp at all. The high density pin goes noticeably further into the tool. What is weird is that the high density pins, while smaller in diameter, seem to be the same length as the standard pins. So how could it go further in??? Is there a different insert piece available to adapt the tool for the high density pins or is a different crimper required? The crimps are really unsatisfactory according to my local radio shop so I need some kind of a solution. Jim Bean ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 2001
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Marvin Mixon wrote: > > > Bob, > > My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two > 50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I > turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. > Resetting the breaker has the same results. > > Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? > > Marvin Mixon > 2X50=100watts/12volts=>8amps Your 5 amp breaker is too small. Is your wire? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2001
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Marvin; Two 50 watt lamps is a total of 100 watts. 100 watts operating on 12 volts draws 8-1/3 amps. A 5 amp breaker should trip after a short time when you are drawing this much current through it. A ten amp breaker would be more appropriate. If you have wired this circuit for only 5 amps, what about your wire size? Is it adequate? Before you simply change the breaker, make sure the wire is up to the load also. Bob McC >Bob, >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. >Resetting the breaker has the same results. >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? >Marvin Mixon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
100W / 12 Volts = 8.3 Amps. Yes, I'd say 5A is way too low. Remember, you probably have an start-up (inrush) current higher than 8.3 amps. Finn Marvin Mixon wrote: > > Bob, > > My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two > 50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I > turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. > Resetting the breaker has the same results. > > Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? > > Marvin Mixon > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > > L. Nuckolls, III > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:52 AM > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise > > > > > > III" > > > > > > Bob, > > > > Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include > > LOM wireing > > diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are > > available. > > > > Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards > > Oshkosh) has > > extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by > > the radios. > > The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to > > your Z1 diagram, > > shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead > > conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto. > > The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the > > magnetos. > > The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator > > is active. The > > radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in > > the fiberglass > > shell. > > > > I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if > > you have any > > suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks > > that the p-lead/mag > > switch setup is suspect. > > > > I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring > > diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European > > style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring > > of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago. > > They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone > > who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing. > > > > The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting > > the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the > > noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm > > mystified as to why you're having this problem. > > > > If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll > > refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and > > ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator > > (MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that > > this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields > > are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds > > a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal > > strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While > > all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed > > successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding > > techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are > > not responsible for the noise problem. > > > > I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise > > suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto. > > Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary? > > Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type > > recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors > > from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's > > relevant but it would be good to know. > > > > I am planning to do a an addition to the power > > distribution diagrams that is specific to the > > LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too > > bad that they continue to use a brush type generator > > but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient > > and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator > > depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa > > 1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at > > least replace this critter with a solid state design. > > > > Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect > > that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) > > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) > > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) > > ---------------------------------------------- > > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Landing light breaker trips . . .
> >Bob, > >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. >Resetting the breaker has the same results. > >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? > >Marvin Mixon Much too small. A 50 watt lamp draws about 4A all by itself. The system should be wired with a 10A breaker. The wire feeding this system should be 18AWG or bigger. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: RCT-3 D-Sub crimp tool
> >Bob, >This tool works great on the standard pins. I notice that the crimp on >the high density pins is way at the end of the barrel, not a good crimp >at all. The high density pin goes noticeably further into the tool. What >is weird is that the high density pins, while smaller in diameter, seem >to be the same length as the standard pins. So how could it go further >in??? The pin positioning inserts need to be modified as we receive the tool . . . I've written the manufacturer several times and finally gave up getting the tool corrected. As received, the tools put the crimp right at the opening to the wire grip. Since the pin hole is drilled, I suspect there's a conical bottom to the hole that allows a smaller HD pin to set deeper in the positioner. >Is there a different insert piece available to adapt the tool for the >high density pins or is a different crimper required? The crimps are >really unsatisfactory according to my local radio shop so I need some >kind of a solution. If you have access to a lathe, you can make a second positioner by duplicating the one you have for it's external dimensions. Then drill the pin-hole in small steps until it positions the wire grip crimp in the right place. Not sure how B&C is cutting the positioners, I tried to make them grip the standard pin in the lower third rather than centered . . . this moved the crimp on the HD pin to the upper third. You could try cutting the standard positioner's seating ledge down just enough to give you a bell-mouth opening at the end of an HD pin . . . the crimp doesn't have to be centered . . . it just can't push sharp edged metal down against the strands. When barely correct for HD pins, I think you'll still get a good crimp on a standard pin. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 2-5 Switches for Mags . . .
>Hi Bob, > >Using the 2-5 switches for mags, left/starter. I have rang out the >switch and find it does not match the Aeroelectric Figure Z1 which I am >using on my RV-6. > >The drawing shows 2-3 and 5-6 in the off position, while I have >measured 1-2 and 5-6 when off (switch down). > >Drawing shows 4-5 and 1-2 in the on position, I measure 2-3 and 5-6 on >(switch centered), with 2-3 and 4-5 in the start (momentary, up) >position, breaking the 5-6 connection. > >What am I missing? Sounds like you have a 2-50 switch . . . not a 2-5. The 2-50 has progressive transfer. With the toggle in the anti-keyway (full down) position, it's just like a 2-5 with connections between 2-3 and 5-6. Moving to the mid position transfers only the left (rear view) switch transfers making contact between 1-3 and leaving the 5-6 contact alone. Moving to the keyway (full up momentary) position transfers the right switch making 5-6 go open and closing the 4-5. This switch is described as DP3T on-on-(on). The schematic symbol for a 2-50 switch is depicted in Figure Z1 for the FUEL BOOST ON/OFF/PRIME switch. On the other hand, a 2-5 switch (the one you're supposed to be using on the mags), With the toggle in the anti-keyway (full down) position, it connects 2-3 and 5-6. Moving to the mid position transfers both switches to an intermediate off postion (no terminals connected to each other). Moving to the keyway (full up momentary) position transfers both switches making the 1-2 and 4-5 pairs. This switch is described as DP3T on-off-(on). The schematic for a 2-5 is depicted in Figure Z1 for the right and left magneto switches. If you purchased 2-5's and got 2-50's instead, B&C will exchange them for you . . . you'll also get a credit for price difference. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Master/Starter Relay
Date: Jul 16, 2001
I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?) Thanks, Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
"AeroElectric List"
Subject: Battery Wire Ends
Date: Jul 16, 2001
I'm doing the main cables from battery to the relays. I've got a three year old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are 3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it up but is this allowed? Also I would like to put a 45 degree bend "up" on the lug so the cable leaves the battery traveling up. Is this allowed? I test bent one and it still appears solid and fits real well. Do I have to get new lugs to remove the slop? If I do shouldn't I downsize to #4 wire? (firewall battery) How many amps is #4 wire rated for? Thank-you Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Master/Starter Relay
> >I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the >power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?) > >Thanks, >Norman Hunger >RV6A Delta BC No, the main power terminals on the starter contactor are independent. If you have a 3-terminal battery contactor, one should be marked "BAT" or "B" . . . this one would go to the battery. If you have a 4-terminal battery contactor, you can wire the main terminals in any configuration you like. Be sure to add spike catcher diodes in the coil circuits. These are illustrated in pictures of our products in the parts catalog and in our wiring diagrams. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends
> >I'm doing the main cables from battery to the relays. I've got a three year >old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct >size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got >one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are >3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it >up but is this allowed? it would probably work okay . . . I'd much rather see the right terminal installed. >Also I would like to put a 45 degree bend "up" on the lug so the cable >leaves the battery traveling up. Is this allowed? I test bent one and it >still appears solid and fits real well. sure . . . you can form the lugs to accommodate wire routing. >Do I have to get new lugs to remove the slop? not necessary but recommended >If I do shouldn't I downsize to #4 wire? (firewall battery) the only time you need 2AWG wire in an RV is when the battery is behind the seats. Otherwise, 4AWG is fine for the whole system. Irrespective of where the battery is located, 4AWG jumpers from battery(-) to ground and battery(+) to contactor are fine too. We offer pre-assembled battery jumpers made from welding cable . . . very soft and easy to work with. If it were my airplane, I'd make new battery jumpers with proper sized terminals and fabricate from 4AWG welding cable. >How many amps is #4 wire rated for? Not so much continuous with respect to starting . . . even 2AWG is rated for only 100A continuous. Cranking will draw 200A plus but only for a few seconds. Wire sizing in the cranking circuit is a function of voltage drop and starter performance - wire heating due to momentary overloading of conductors is a secondary issue. 4AWG wire is fine for the whole system as long as you don't have a long run to a remotely mounted battery. If the battery is up front, 4AWG is fine. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RION BOURGEOIS" <rion(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Master/Starter Relay
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Bob: does the little silver band on the spike catcher diodes on your battery and alternator contactors go towards the positive or negative coil terminal? Am I correct that to use the contactor for an alternator contactor, I must remove the jumper wire? Thanx, Rion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:13 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master/Starter Relay > > > > >I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the > >power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?) > > > >Thanks, > >Norman Hunger > >RV6A Delta BC > > > No, the main power terminals on the starter contactor > are independent. If you have a 3-terminal battery > contactor, one should be marked "BAT" or "B" . . . > this one would go to the battery. If you have a 4-terminal > battery contactor, you can wire the main terminals in > any configuration you like. > > Be sure to add spike catcher diodes in the coil circuits. > These are illustrated in pictures of our products in > the parts catalog and in our wiring diagrams. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5 amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > McCallum > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:22 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise > > > > > Marvin; > > Two 50 watt lamps is a total of 100 watts. 100 watts operating on 12 > volts draws 8-1/3 amps. A 5 amp breaker should trip after a short time > when you are drawing this much current through it. A ten amp breaker > would be more appropriate. If you have wired this circuit for only 5 > amps, what about your wire size? Is it adequate? > Before you simply change the breaker, make sure the wire is up to the > load also. > > Bob McC > > > >Bob, > > >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of > two > >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. > When I > >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. > >Resetting the breaker has the same results. > > >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? > > >Marvin Mixon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Landing light breaker trips . . .
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Thanks Bob, We live and learn. Marvin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:16 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Landing light breaker trips . . . > > > III" > > > > > >Bob, > > > >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and > consists of two > >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs > meter. When I > >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds. > >Resetting the breaker has the same results. > > > >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small? > > > >Marvin Mixon > > Much too small. A 50 watt lamp draws about 4A all by itself. > The system should be wired with a 10A breaker. The wire > feeding this system should be 18AWG or bigger. > > Bob . . . > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
> >Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5 >amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright. Hmmm . . . sounds like you may have found a typographical error. Perhaps the 5 should have been 15. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Master/Starter Contactors and Spike Catchers
> >Bob: does the little silver band on the spike catcher diodes on your >battery and alternator contactors go towards the positive or negative coil >terminal? Am I correct that to use the contactor for an alternator >contactor, I must remove the jumper wire? Thanx, Rion Yes . . . the banded end of any diode used as a spike catcher must attach to the + terminal of the contactor coil. The S701-1 contactor is supplied with a diode and jumper to make it installation-ready for use as a battery contactor. You are correct that to use this device as an alternator disconnect contactor, the jumper would be removed. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
> >Bob, > >I ordered battery cables from your website last night. Are they 2 guage or >4? Our battery jumpers are fabricated from 4AWG welding cable. >Years ago I ordered a bunch of stuff from Van including two of those spike >catching diodes. Are they the same as the ones you mentioned? ANY diode you can put your hands on will work as a spike catcher across the coil of a relay or contactor. There are no rectifier diodes made with voltage ratings of less than 50 nor current ratings of less than 1 amp. My personal favorites are the 1N5400 series devices available from Radio Shack for about $1 for a pak of two parts. These feature more robust leadwires and heavier plastic bodies. These are the parts illustrated in our website catalog pictures. >Is there any theories out there that one should use crimps on all high >vibration enviorment cables and electrical connections? Some one told me >that in the Aircraft Standards Handbook it is mentioned to not solder the >lugs onto the leads. Help! I'm confused! Bottom line is that either solder -OR- crimped terminals offer excellent technologies for jointing wires and terminals. Here are a couple of pieces I've published on my website on this topic. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf >If I buy the vacume pad alternator (as backup) and the Aircraft Alternator >Control System do I still need a OVM-14 at the vacume pad? I would recommend it. Nobody in the alternator business wants to advertise that the probability of over voltage failure is NOT ZERO . . . it may be quite low but it is not zero. I'm helping analyze a VERY expensive incident involving a small alternator, small battery and a series of errors that culminated in too many thousands of dollars worth of damage. Please include ov protection on every alternator system and test the ov module every annual. >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one. No >bigger....... You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task. This should be the first and last alternator you put on your airplane. Beech/Piper/Cessna and Mooney can only dream about having alternator service records that approach the history of B&C alternators. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Bob: Over on the RV list there has been a discussion about a recent RV accident. The pilot, most fortunately, survived with injuries in spite of major damage to the fuel tanks that fortunately did not result in a fire. I have noted that switching off my standard ACS supplied Cessna type dual rocker master switch creates a significant blue arch behind the panel it is mounted in. I also recall a tale of a pilot trapped in a fuel soaked cockpit imploring his rescuers not to touch any switches until they got him out. Do the master switch part numbers and arrangements you recommend prevent this arching problem? Is the common to the rocker type switch or do you suspect another problem in my case? Thanks Dick Sipp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
> > >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one. > No > > >bigger....... > > > > You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso > > alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running > > load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that > > an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task. > > Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps on > the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3 strobes, and > remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when everything is > moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that will fit under a > Sam James RV6A cowl? > > Norman Hunger Norman 1981-1983 Honda Accords came with a 60 amp, externally regulated Nippon Denso alternator. Other Japanese autos also use 50-60 amp alternators. However, most of the others were models not produced in large quantities. This becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator for a Geo or Suzuki??) It is fairly small, although I can not say whether it will fit under the Sam James cowl for sure. I expect that it can be made to fit. Sam's "howl cowl" is a copy of the Barnard cowl. This cowl is actually wider than Van's stock cowl. This was done to allow the installation of the angle valve IO-360 engine. Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
Date: Jul 18, 2001
> >Is there any theories out there that one should use crimps on all high > >vibration enviorment cables and electrical connections? Some one told me > >that in the Aircraft Standards Handbook it is mentioned to not solder the > >lugs onto the leads. Help! I'm confused! > > Bottom line is that either solder -OR- crimped terminals > offer excellent technologies for jointing wires and terminals. > *** I had an interesting conversation with my FSDO inspector about this very topic. Before joining the government, he had been an avionics tech. I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire which then broke from vibration. He admitted that he hadn't. He told me that crimping was "pushed" by AC43-13 because it is inspectable, it can be done by untrained personnel, and without it, you'd never build something like a B-52. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net>
Date: Jul 18, 2001
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . Send reply to: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking > > > >one. > > No > > > >bigger....... > > > > > > You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso > > > alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running > > > load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that > > > an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task. > > > > Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps > > on the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3 > > strobes, and remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when > > everything is moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that > > will fit under a Sam James RV6A cowl? > > > > Norman Hunger > > Norman > 1981-1983 Honda Accords came with a 60 amp, externally regulated Nippon > Denso > alternator. Other Japanese autos also use 50-60 amp alternators. However, > most of the others were models not produced in large quantities. This > becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in > Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator for a > Geo or Suzuki??) It is fairly small, although I can not say whether it > will fit under the Sam James cowl for sure. I expect that it can be made > to fit. Sam's "howl cowl" is a copy of the Barnard cowl. This cowl is > actually wider than Van's stock cowl. This was done to allow the > installation of the angle valve IO-360 engine. Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage > >I think B&C also makes a 60 amp alternator. Same quality as the 40 amp. You might check their web site. Jim Robinson Glll ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
Date: Jul 18, 2001
Mornin', Jerry... >>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire which then broke from vibration.<< I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer. We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better way to terminate a wire. It took a long time, and a lot of failures caused by the wire breaking right at the terminal before they finally stopped soldering them. They began to notice that the unsoldered crimped terminal connections were not failing and finally came around. If the connections can fail in a relatively low vibration application such as we had (switches, photo cells and sensors of various kinds, PLCs etc...) I wouldn't begin to think of using that technique in my plane. Harley Dixon Harley(at)AgelessWings.com http://www.AgelessWings.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: LOM magneto noise
Well, 5 amp should be ok for one light. Does the schematic show two lights with a 5 amp breaker? Finn "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > > >Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5 > >amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright. > > Hmmm . . . sounds like you may have found a typographical > error. Perhaps the 5 should have been 15. > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
Date: Jul 18, 2001
> > Mornin', Jerry... *** And good morning to YOU, Harley! > >>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder > wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire > which then broke from vibration.<< > > I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a > pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer. > > We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a > soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better *** Well, If we get to bring previous lives into it - I used to be an instrument maintenance tech at a telephone equipment factory. We had a large number of specialized test sets built with "wire wrap". For those who don't know, wire wrap is a technique where wire is wrapped around a post with sharp edges. The edges dig into the inside of the wire, creating multiple gas tight joints. It was touted as being much better than soldering. Yeah, RIGHT. I found that on the factory floor, wire wrap performed well for about five years. Then they would start to go intermittant. The quick fix was to solder them. But the pins had tarnished in the meantime, making even that iffy. I especially remember one machine I was responsible for, the "Omni 2000". This was a rack tester that would check to see that all the wires went to the right pins, and also that they showed high resistance to all the wrong pins. It had literally thousands of wire wrap connections. The only reason I wasn't excessively annoyed by failing wire wraps, was that it also had 7000 relays, which occupied rather more of my time :). I _THINK_ that PIDG connectors are inherently better than wire wrap, because they offer the joint some environmental protection, as well as a strain relief for the wire. Ever take apart a personal computer? There's thousands and thousands of SOLDERED connections in there. Easily enough so that any statistical weakness would drop your computer in its tracks in a few months. Better not buy any commercial avionics either. They're all full of unreliable soldered connections. In fact, current practice is to "surface mount" all the parts. With "surface mount" there is NO mechanical connection or support for a part, other than its solder joints. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . .
Date: Jul 18, 2001
Afternoon, Jerry... >>Ever take apart a personal computer?<< Yep...even built a couple from scratch, as well as controllers, etc. >>There's thousands and thousands of SOLDERED connections in there. << Yes indeed...but they are mechanically fixed to the rigid circuit board...like the surface mount parts you mention. Flexing of the joint is not an issue in this case. But, the plugs on the ends of the cabling in PCs (like to the drives, etc.), are all crimped. Soldering to a rigid surface like a circuit board strengthens the connection because of the board's rigidity. But soldering a wire into an already crimped connector weakens it because of the flexing of the wire at the point where the solder ends and the wire begins...I think that this is what we were talking about here. >>was that it also had 7000 relays, which occupied rather more of my time :).<< I know of what you speak! In another-another life (no, I'm not a cat! ) I was an engineer for a company that made a machine that built prefab houses. One man would operate it, and it would feed components and precut studs and sills, firestops, framing, etc, as called for by a computer program, then advance the wall (which was built laying on it's inside) so the next part could be inserted and nailed. It also applied the insulation and sheathing, nailed it and cut out the doors and windows. I think that had about 7000 relays, too. Well, maybe only 6500....! >>I found that on the factory floor, wire wrap performed well for about five years.<< Hmmm...the largest use of wire wrap I can think of is in a PDP-12 that we used (back in that pharmaceutical company) to monitor several systems. The wire wrapped "mother board" (about 140 x 120 pin grid) had very few problems, in fact, I can't remember any that we traced to that part of the machine. And it reliably ran for over 15 years 24/7. As far as I know, the only thing that is currently wrong with it is that it needs a 15 volts power supply (Currently? Yes, I still have it! I rescued it when they replaced it with a new DEC VAX...it's currently resting quietly here in my house.) Harley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: CDI Wiring
Date: Jul 18, 2001
> > Can one CDI be switched to operate either the GPS or the VOR/ILS? I would > like to also be sending whatever the CDI is reading to the Navaid smart > coupler at the same time. > *** Depends on the kind of CDI. It will work with a CDI that only has meter movements in it. KNI-520, KI-206, IND-351A, or an HSI: NSD360 etc. Many low-end CDI's have a built in "VOR Converter" - these won't work with a GPS. Basically, such CDIs ( KI-201C, KI-214 etc ) take the complex audio output from the receiver and demodulate it. GPS's don't output a complex audio signal, they just output currents to move meter needles. OK, if you have the right sort of CDI, you still have to switch it. A glideslope CDI contains five meter movements. Two needles and three flags. Each movement has two wires ( they don't use common grounds ) so you will need ten switch contacts or relays. Well, you could probably get by with eight relays by using a common ground for the Horiz & vert nav flags. That could boil down to two 4PDT relays. Also, the FAA requires that you have an annunciator that says what the indicator is reading. Hence those cute little $500 switch/annunciator boxes. A GNS-430 doesn't need a switch/annunciator box because the switching is done inside the box, AND because it displays the indicator source immediately above the button that chooses it. If by "navaid smart coupler" you mean an autopilot, that's no problem, you just hook the autopilot input across the CDI horiz needle movement. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: altnerator size . . .
> >Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps on >the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3 strobes, and >remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when everything is >moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that will fit under a >Sam James RV6A cowl? B&C has an L-60. Call them up at 316.283.8000 and they'll be able to tell you if they've encountered any fit problems. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: solder vs. crimp
>> >>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder >> wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire >> which then broke from vibration.<< >> >> I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a >> pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer. >> >> We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a >> soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better This topic keeps flowering up from time to time. Bottom line is that EITHER crimp or solder can be done in a manner that will perform satisfactorily in an airplane or any other vehicle. Either technique can be performed BADLY so as to be unsatisfactory in any situation. It's never necessary to do both. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Dimmer Control
> >I've got a dimmer kit from Van that is now several years old. When I hook it >up to my string of panel lights it seems to work fine until I put a jumper >straight off the battery. Then the lights get a bunch brighter. Is this >normal? > >The little PC board gets quite hot too. Is this normal? > >Is there another dimmer out there that does allow full power at max bright? Not familiar with Van's product. Why is "full power" a requirement? You want the dimmer to be regulated at settings where you operate most of the time . . . this is usually with very dim illumination after you've dark adapted. The need for full power is for the minutes after sunset where full power is never enough . . . as soon as it's really dark enough to need panel lighting, the need for full bright goes away quickly. Our dimmers stop at 12 volts so that when set for full bright, small perturbations in bus voltage (from strobes or other dynamic loads) don't cause the panel lights to flicker. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: policies, procedures and bureaucratic advice .
. . > >*** I had an interesting conversation with my FSDO inspector about this very >topic. Before joining the government, he had been an avionics tech. I >asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder >wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire >which then broke from vibration. He admitted that he hadn't. > > He told me that crimping was "pushed" by AC43-13 because it is >inspectable, it can be done by untrained personnel, and without it, you'd >never build something like a B-52. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) But it was okay for building tens of thousands of B-17, B-29, etc, etc. People with training, skill and pride of workmanship can build ANY THING with ANY suitable TECHNIQUE. It's true that if you want to drag a government schooled kid off the street that's looking for the fast-track to a $100,000 a year job, you'd better do everything you can to reduce the probability of error . . . but even that's no guarantee. I've got some pictures in my files of pins applied with "certified" tools and a "trained" technician that fell of the wires and caused a thrust reverser failure. For lack of a little common sense and pride of craftsmanship, a perfectly good airplane got buggered up in the dirt off the end of a runway. This airplane was built two years ago. All the advisory circulars and inspectors in the world will not replace common sense and integrity. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues
. . . > >Afternoon, Jerry... > >>>Ever take apart a personal computer?<< > >Yep...even built a couple from scratch, as well as controllers, etc. > >>>There's thousands and thousands of SOLDERED connections in there. << > >Yes indeed...but they are mechanically fixed to the rigid circuit >board...like the surface mount parts you mention. Flexing of the joint is >not an issue in this case. But, the plugs on the ends of the cabling in PCs >(like to the drives, etc.), are all crimped. This topic keeps flowering up from time to time. Bottom line is that EITHER crimp or solder can be done in a manner that will perform satisfactorily in an airplane or any other vehicle. Either technique can be performed badly so as to be unsatisfactory in any situation. It's never necessary to do both. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)johndeere.com>
Subject: Big Alternators
Date: Jul 19, 2001
>Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one. <<>> Wander past your local John Deere farm equipment dealer. They have Nippondenso alternators (and service parts for them) in 40, 60, 90, 120, and 140 amp sizes. And yes, they are available in Moose Jaw, Sask. (I don't know about on a Sunday, however.) Regards- Norm Muzzy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard
> >Bob: > >Over on the RV list there has been a discussion about a recent RV accident. >The pilot, most fortunately, survived with injuries in spite of major damage >to the fuel tanks that fortunately did not result in a fire. > >I have noted that switching off my standard ACS supplied Cessna type dual >rocker master switch creates a significant blue arch behind the panel it is >mounted in. Do which switch produces the arc? Battery or alternator side? Do you have a spike catcher diode across your battery contactor coil? >I also recall a tale of a pilot trapped in a fuel soaked cockpit imploring >his rescuers not to touch any switches until they got him out. > >Do the master switch part numbers and arrangements you recommend prevent >this arching problem? Is the common to the rocker type switch or do you >suspect another problem in my case? Arcing at switch contacts can never be zero. I'm surprised that you can "see" anything as switches are usually totally enclosed. They normally don't represent much of hazard in terms of an ignition source. I'd like to understand why you're seeing the blue fire. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Switch Capacity
> >So let me get this straight, I wire from the fuseblock to the switch to >the component? Do I ever use relays to keep the current out of the >switch? There are very few cases where this is necessary on a single engine airplane . . . the only buffer relays you need are the starter contactor and battery master contactor. >For switches I am leaning towards Cole Hersee illuminated tip toggle >switches M-54111-01 rated at 25 amps at 12 volts DC. Available at the >local auto parts store. These have a black plastic toggle with a small >light on the tip. It glows pale orange when not in use then changes to >red when selected. I have found the same switch with a metal toggle >orange when off green when on but no fast on tabs, must use ring >terminals. I was trying to avoid ring terminals. These are factory >equipment on 92-95 Western Star Trucks. Available from their dealers >(now bought by Sterling who got bought by Freightliner who got bought by >Mercedes Benz). Seeesh! Those are hawgs . . . but they ought to do the job. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Caldarale" <n828cl(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: CDI Wiring]
Date: Jul 19, 2001
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CDI Wiring > > CDI - switch between panel GPS and panel VOR/ILS > Navaid - switch between whatever the CDI sees and a handheld > GPS/moving map > > My Navaid has the smartcoupler built in. Can I do this? I had the same problem trying to get my Garmin handheld to drive the CDI and the Navaid. I could not figure out a way to do it with the built-in SmartCoupler. So, I sent the Navaid box back for coupler removal (and a small refund), and bought the external one (II LE) direct from Jim Ham (http://www.porcine.com). Now, a switch on the Terra Tri-Nav C lets me select either the VOR or GPS to display, and the output of the CDI is routed to the Navaid. I did have to modify the SC II LE slightly (at Jim's direction) to condition the GPS available signal for the Tri-Nav. With the external coupler, you also get a couple of tracking options that the internal one doesn't have. - Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2001
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Big Alternators
> >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one. > > << others were models not produced in large quantities. This becomes an issue > if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in Moose Jaw, Sask. > on a Sunday.>>> > > Wander past your local John Deere farm equipment dealer. They have > Nippondenso alternators (and service parts for them) in 40, 60, 90, 120, and > 140 amp sizes. And yes, they are available in Moose Jaw, Sask. (I don't > know about on a Sunday, however.) > > Regards- > Norm Muzzy Norm My point regarding the use of less common parts still holds true for John Deere stuff. While you stand a very good chance of finding a John Deere dealer in any rural area, they certainly are nowhere near as common as Honda dealers, Pep Boys, Discount Auto, NAPA, etc. etc. If you break down away from home, your transportation options (to find a vendor) may be very limited. You will probably need to go to the nearest parts store to the local airport. I suspect that if you ask for a John Deere alternator at the local parts store, the reply very will could be: "We can order that for you. It will be here tomorrow.". While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't seen one in Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area). Stick with common, high volume parts if you want to find a replacement (in stock) quickly. Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marshall Robert <rmarshall@pilatus-aircraft.com>
Subject: ectric-List:Feeder Cables
Date: Jul 20, 2001
To tap into the heavy duty feeder cables between battery and generator with actually cutting the cable. Are Split Bolt connectors a good idea? Bob M ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Big Alternators
Date: Jul 20, 2001
Mornin', Charlie... >>While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't seen one in Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area).<< John Deere now makes lawn tractors, push mowers and string trimmers, as well as all the Homelite products. So, they have now established sales and service operations in just about every city in the US, as well as their big equipment bases in rural areas that everyone normally thinks of. Here in Rochester, NY there are 2 of them within a few (6 or 7) miles of ROC (one of them about a mile from my house...which is what prompted me to look it up at John Deere's web site), and a total of 5 in this area. In the Ft. Lauderdale area they list 5, two of them within 8 miles of the city. Miami lists two more. There are more of them out here than you might think. Harley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergkyle" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Date: Jul 20, 2001
. "This becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator for a Geo or Suzuki??) " Easy, chaps. We always speak well of Boise, Pocatello and Decatur. Ferg Europa A064 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 2001
Subject: Fwd: Contactors
From: LRE2(at)aol.com Full-name: LRE2 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:10:31 EDT Subject: Contactors Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from B&C for battery, alternator and ext power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to install the diodes. I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on" switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the contactor? LRE2(at)aol.com FEW P51 Mustang... Firewall Forward Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from BC for battery, alternator and ext power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to install the diodes. I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on" switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the contactor? LRE2(at)aol.com FEW P51 Mustang... Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2001
From: Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Big Alternators
But do they stock a 60-70 amp alternator, and are they open on the weekend???? Jim Streit 90073 tanks "Harley, Ageless Wings" wrote: > > Mornin', Charlie... > > >>While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't > seen one in > Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area).<< > > John Deere now makes lawn tractors, push mowers and string trimmers, as well > as all the Homelite products. So, they have now established sales and > service operations in just about every city in the US, as well as their big > equipment bases in rural areas that everyone normally thinks of. > > Here in Rochester, NY there are 2 of them within a few (6 or 7) miles of ROC > (one of them about a mile from my house...which is what prompted me to look > it up at John Deere's web site), and a total of 5 in this area. > > In the Ft. Lauderdale area they list 5, two of them within 8 miles of the > city. > > Miami lists two more. > > There are more of them out here than you might think. > > Harley > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2001
From: "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
I was in Sitka, Alaska and the local B&C auto not only could test my Nippon Denso, but could promise me a replacement on Monday. (It was Friday Night on Thanksgiving weekend. Turned out the Alternator was fine, and I fully expect, considering the amount of time it runs on my plane compared to the amount of time it would run on a car, that it will remain fine for the life of the plane. Bill Fergkyle wrote: > > . "This becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you > are in Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator > for a Geo or Suzuki??) " > > Easy, chaps. We always speak well of Boise, Pocatello and Decatur. > Ferg > Europa A064 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Connector
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Jul 20, 2001
12:38:38 PM Heres something different. A local builder told me about seeing this battery connector on an RV. The guy had it hidden under his seat. Would be a good safeguard for those that do not want to go the ignition switch route. I think its fairly small and can easily be hidden out of view. Eric http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201&prrfnbr=63168&outlet ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Dimmer Control
Date: Jul 20, 2001
07/20/2001 11:42:50 AM >I've got a dimmer kit from Van that is now several years old. When I hook it >up to my string of panel lights it seems to work fine until I put a jumper >straight off the battery. Then the lights get a bunch brighter. Is this >normal? Not normal Norman. In fact it's a fire hazard. Looks like your trying to draw way to much current from your dimmer. I think the Van's dimmer is good for about 1.5 amps. What's your load like? Your best bet is to split your load between two dimmers ( maybe one for cabin lights and one for panel lights ) or just buy one that can handle the entire load. Aeroelectric has some pretty stout ones that I understand from other users work quite well. - Jim Andrews RV-8A ( at the airport ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Big Alternators
Date: Jul 20, 2001
Jim... >>are they open on the weekend???<< Good point! I know the one down the street from me is, but who knows about the others. They are independent dealers of John Deere equipment...they probably set there own hours...but then again, they'd probably open up for a sale sooner than a big store would....like on the Fourth of July... Harley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: ectric-List:Feeder Cables
> >To tap into the heavy duty feeder cables between battery and generator with >actually cutting the cable. >Are Split Bolt connectors a good idea? Why do you want to do this? I've found it quite easy to provide threaded fasteners for the joining multiple pathways at a single node. What is the situation that drives this question? The split-bolt connector does not provide a gas-tight joint and is really designed for wire with relatively coarse stranding. If you really have to do this kind of tap to a big feeder, I'd rather see three crimped or soldered terminals brought together with a bolt and the whole assembly covered with several layers of heatshrink. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard
Date: Jul 20, 2001
On Thur 7/19/01 Bob asks for more clarification regarding arching at master switch: Bob, I will check out your questions and post again. Dick Sipp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 2001
Subject: avoiding ring terminals
In a message dated 07/20/2001 2:55:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Norman" << ......... For switches I am leaning towards ...................... I was trying to avoid ring terminals.............>> 7/20/01 Hello Norman, You can avoid ring terminals by buying tabs from Terminal Town, installing them on the switches, and then using the push on fasteners on your wires. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Contactors
> > >From: LRE2(at)aol.com >Full-name: LRE2 >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:10:31 EDT >Subject: Contactors >To: Nuckolls(at)Aeroelectric.com > > >Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from B&C for battery, alternator and ext >power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to >install the diodes. They should have come with diodes installed. > I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch >pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it >necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on" >switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the >contactor? These diodes are illustrated schematically in all of our power distribution diagrams . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/R9Z_0400.pdf catalog pages . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1 and discussed in this article . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: avoiding ring terminals
>posted by: "Norman" ><< ......... For switches I am leaning towards ...................... I was >trying to avoid ring terminals.............>> > >7/20/01 > >Hello Norman, You can avoid ring terminals by buying tabs from Terminal Town, >installing them on the switches, and then using the push on fasteners on your >wires. Please don't do this . . . it REALLY drives up parts count. If the switches of choice only come with screw terminals then my all means use matching ring terminals. This technique has worked very well for tens of thousands of airplanes. Screwing a tab onto a switch defeats the goal of reduced parts count and installation labor. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: ANTENNAS
m> > THANKS FOR THE REPLY, BOB! IF ONE ANTENNA WILL DO, THEN ONE ANTENNA >IT IS! NOW--- HOW DO I HOOK THE FOOL THING UP? ALL I GOT WITH IT WAS A PIG >TAIL WHERE IT HAD BEEN CUT OFF WITH A PAIR OF DIKES. THEY HAD STRIPPED THE >SHEATH OFF THE WIRING AND LOOP-PULLED THE CENTER WIRE THROUGH THE BRAIDED >SHEATH, AND THIS OUTER BRAID WAS WHAT WAS ATTACHED TO THE ANTENNA ROD. WHERE >DOES THE CENTER WIRE HOOK UP? DOES IT HOOK TO ANYTHING AT ALL? Both the center conductor and the outer braid must be connected to the antenna in some fashion. If this is a tail mounted VOR antenna, I presume were talking about the "cat whiskers" that one sees on about 95% of the single engine airplanes. I presume further the one you have has two rods intended to exit either side of the vertical fin. There should be terminals of some kind visible where electrical connections are made to the ends of the rods where they enter a mounting block made from some kind of insulating material. The braid should connect to one rod, the center conductor to the other. I recommend RG-400 coax for this task. Extend the coax forward to the panel where you need to install a one-antenna to two or three-radios coupler. Will you have a glideslope receiver? You can run two VOR -AND- a glideslope from the single antenna. I am curious as to why you're installing two VOR receivers in this airplane. I rent airplanes for my personal needs. Haven't turned a VOR receiver on in years. I use $100 hand-held GPS receivers I bought at Walmart . . . they are 10x the radio for 1/10th the price. I can have two radios for the price of the cost of fuel to make one trip. VOR is scheduled to go away. What's your interest in this navigational dinosaur? If you NEED a VOR for sanctioned IFR activities, then one radio would suffice to meet the requirements. If you don't plan IFR activities and want the best performance you can get for the money, I'd leave these relics on the ground. ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: RE: ANTENNAS m>
Date: Jul 21, 2001
> > I am curious as to why you're installing two VOR receivers > in this airplane. I rent airplanes for my personal needs. > Haven't turned a VOR receiver on in years. I use $100 > hand-held GPS receivers I bought at Walmart . . . they > are 10x the radio for 1/10th the price. I can have two > radios for the price of the cost of fuel to make one trip. > VOR is scheduled to go away. What's your interest in this > navigational dinosaur? If you NEED a VOR for sanctioned > IFR activities, *** A good topic! I gave this some serious thought. I had a GNS430 left over from the old plane. The new plane had a pair of KX170B's, a KI214 GS/indicator, a mechanical readout DME, an ADF, and a Northstar Loran. Given that stuff was in there and working, I just took out one navcom and installed the 430 in its place. I really expect that everything but the 430 and the second navcom is going to be just panel decoration. And the second navcom will be used only for a third COM frequency. But not only do I plan to do O-ficial IFR stuff, I plan to earn my instrument rating with this setup. And I'd rather not try to earn the rating without the "normal" stuff, that is two VOR receivers. Maybe things will change in ten years or so - but just now, instrument training is VOR-centric. And all the other stuff still gives me peace of mind for redundancy- for that fateful and unlikely day when the GNS430 dies. I even kept the KI-214, so as to have two glideslope receivers. And for that day when the whole electrical system packs it in, I always have a Lowrance Airmap and a KX-99 transceiver in the flight bag. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2001
Subject: Fwd: Contactors
From: LRE2(at)aol.com Full-name: LRE2 Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:13:25 EDT Subject: Contactors Bob, re: your reply: The S701-1 contactors I received from B&C included no schematics or diodes. Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors. As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole. Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here. I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole. LRE Bob, re: your reply: The S701-1 contactors I received from BC included no schematics or diodes. Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors. As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole. Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here. I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole. LRE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Contactors
> > >Bob, re: your reply: > The S701-1 contactors I received from B&C included no schematics >or diodes. >Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and >install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors. >As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole. > Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here. >I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should >jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole. > LRE Yes, we do supply only the 4-terminal contactor so that one part number can be used in many different applications. The illustration at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg shows how to install the diode -AND- a jumper wire to make the contactor into a diode-protected, 3-terminal device that matches our schematics. In applications where the 4-terminal device is needed, the jumper is simply removed and you have access to both ends of the contactor's coil circuit. I'll drop a copy of this note to Todd at B&C so that he can take whatever steps are needed to make sure the diodes and jumper are installed on future shipments. Sorry for the inconvenience . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Fuses
>Hi Bob, > >I'm going with your fuse block setup rather than CBs. Somewhere I believe >you discussed how often one has to reset/replace a CB/fuse in flight, and >how much good it actually does (NONE). Based upon my personal experience >with this, I am seriously considering placing the fuse block where it will >not be accessible in flight (not much is in a VariEze, and I know you have >discussed this also). >My concern is whether our very experienced and >knowing FAA types will object, realizing their more legal-than-rational >training would insist on starting a fire by overcoming any circuit >protecting device immediately rather than waiting until we're all on the >ground. I can probably get a local inspector to agree, but he will have >been transferred to Taiwan by the time I'm ready for the Feds. First, ask the objector for the basis of objection . . . he/she will probably whip out FAR23 which reads in part: Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices. (d) If the ability to reset a circuit breaker or replace a fuse is essential to safety in flight, that circuit breaker or fuse must be so located and identified that it can be readily reset or replaced in flight. (e) For fuses identified as replaceable in flight-- (1) There must be one spare of each rating or 50 percent spare fuses of each rating, whichever is greater; and (2) The spare fuse(s) must be readily accessible to any required pilot. Then ask for identification of any electrical component failure that is essential to continued safe flight. (First you may want to get a definition of "safe" . . . many have come to believe that any departure from full-up, 100% functionality represents a loss of safety . . .) You should have worked out the answer to this on your own long before the inspectors get there . . . there should be no single equipment failure that will adversely affect your comfortable arrival at intended destination that does not already have a backup. Sooooooooo . . . (1) there are no fuses in reach of the crew so carrying spares in the cockpit is a meaningless requirement and (2) you're not going to break a sweat with the loss of any single piece of equipment so no single item is essential to the safety of flight. And further, you can point out that electro-whizzies on airplanes have many, many more failure modes that DO NOT pop fuses than they have failure modes that DO pop fuses. And finally, while FAR23 is an interesting and often useful guide for the design and fabrication of airplanes, it has no regulatory force upon your project. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2001
Subject: starter contactor diodes
In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes: <<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >> Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back is part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering). Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted spike catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2001
Subject: stray voltage?
7/22/01 Hello Robert L. Nuckolls, I have a very small voltage reading in one configuration from my master battery contactor that has me puzzled / concerned and I'd appreciate your help. Here is the situation in my partially completed electrical system: The master battery contactor is a three terminal P/N 111-226 item from Aircraft Spruce and is located near the battery behind the seat. The B terminal on the contactor is connected by a short 2 AWG to the battery plus terminal. The output terminal of the contactor is attached to a 2 AWG wire that presently ends in free space in front of the firewall. The center solenoid terminal of the contactor is connected to the aircraft battery master switch, which when turned ON completes contact to the aircraft ground bus.There is a spike catcher diode, P/N 16050-2 from ACS, connecting the center solenoid terminal to battery minus. The the battery minus terminal is connected to the aircraft ground bus at the firewall by 2 AWG wire. My problem, if it is one, is that I see a voltage reading on my digital voltage meter of 0.23 volts between the battery plus terminal and the output terminal of the contactor when the battery switch is OFF. I would expect to read 0.00 volts because presumably the input and output contactor terminals are completely separated and there should be infinite resistance and no circuit for current to flow through. I am concerned that this small voltage reading when the battery master switch is OFF indicates that there will always be some small constant current drain from the battery even though the switch is OFF. Can you please provide some enlightenment? I'll provide some additional voltage readings just in case they may be of help. First with the battery switch OFF: From battery plus to battery minus:12.78 volts. From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to the output side of contactor: 0.23 volts (the condition described above). From battery plus to the solenoid terminal: 0.00 volts. From battery minus to solenoid terminal: 12.72 volts. With the battery switch ON: From battery plus to battery minus: 12.63 volts. From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to output side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to the solenoid terminal: 12.48 volts. From battery minus to the solenoid terminal: 0.15 volts. Many thanks for your help Bob. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 24v battery tester
> > Bob, > > I am looking at page 2-9 figure 2-4 of your Aeroelectric Connection > and I am wondering what needs to be changed to make it work for 24 > volt batteries. > > The clock would be the same. > > The relay would either have to be rated for 24v or I would have to > figure out what resistor to put in series with the coil. Measure the resistance of the coil and add a resistor in series with the coil equal to the coil resistance . . . or you could substitute a relay with a 24v coil > > Questions: > > Would the same transister work? > > Are the 470 ohm resisters matched to the zener or the 55w lamp? Would > they have to be different for a 24 volt battery and load? What about > if the I used a different load? Say, a 100w landing light? Are > zeners available in 20 or 21 volt versions or is there an easy way to > make they work at other volatages? What watt rating does the zener > need? A very low wattage zener is fine . . . you can get zeners in a wide variety of voltages I would suggest a 20V device (1N4747). Digikey.com stocks these as do many electronics parts suppliers. All other parts in the tester remain the same. Use any load you like . . . a REAL landing light bulb is pretty expensive. I think I'd use two automotive headlamps in series. A pair of 55w 14v lamps would give you 110w at 28v. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 23, 2001
Subject: Overvoltage relays
Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't find such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you tell me what to order? Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions nicely....LRE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2001
From: wx3o <wx3o(at)flash.net>
Subject: Alternator tripping
All, While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped working....output went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then back on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew for about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the airport traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea). This time the alternator output failed in just about one minute. So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one radio and strobes -- totally uneventful. Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be looking at the alternator itself? Thanks, Mark Julicher ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Alternator tripping
From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Date: Jul 23, 2001
09:35:10 AM Every time I hear this I think about the Rick Nelson crash. I'm told thats how his DC-3 went down. The heater was tripping the breaker and they kept resetting it because the pax were cold. It turned into a big problem real fast. From an armchair quarterback perspective, you might as well had a fuse block mounted out of sight like 'lectric Bob tells us. Eric Henson wx3o (at)matronics.com on 07/23/2001 09:12:03 AM Please respond to aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent by: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator tripping All, While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped working....output went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then back on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew for about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the airport traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea). This time the alternator output failed in just about one minute. So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one radio and strobes -- totally uneventful. Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be looking at the alternator itself? Thanks, Mark Julicher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/22/01
Date: Jul 23, 2001
> ____ > From: LRE2(at)aol.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Overvoltage relays > > > Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage > relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't find > such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you tell > me what to order? > Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions nicely....LRE I thought the B&C regulator (LR3) already included that feature... Doesn't it? Ron Cox ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator tripping
> >All, > >While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped working....output >went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then back >on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew for >about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the airport >traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea). This >time the alternator output failed in just about one minute. > >So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one radio >and strobes -- totally uneventful. > >Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be >looking at the alternator itself? The first thing to do in any situation like this is get data. What is the bus voltage just prior to a trip off . . . what is the field voltage put out by the regulator to the alternator? Is this aircraft equipped with overvoltage protection? How is it designed to behave? Does the POH tell you that recycling the master switch will reset a tripped ov protection? Your symptoms LOOK like an ov trip which is usually a regulator problem. I'm sure an eager FBO mechanic would be happy to start bolting new parts to the airplane until the problem goes away. Save some time, dollars and learn some things about the airplane and what's going on before you let the mechanic touch it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Overvoltage relays
> >Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage >relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't find >such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you tell >me what to order? > Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions nicely....LRE If you have an LR3 regulator from B&C . . . all of the necessary ov protection is built in. This is why the LR-3 costs so much. It's actually 3 products in one case . . . regulator, ov protection and lv warning. When you figure $75/product, the price overall isn't so bad. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: stray voltage?
> >7/22/01 > > >With the battery switch ON: From battery plus to battery minus: 12.63 volts. >>From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus >to output side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to the solenoid >terminal: 12.48 volts. From battery minus to the solenoid terminal: 0.15 >volts. This is not a meaningful measurement. If the contactor is not energized, you're reading voltage drop across open contacts that will be a function of how much load there is on the other side . . . the voltage reading you're interested in is from battery(-) [system ground] to other points in the system. battery(+) will be the 12.63 you already observed. Now measure the votlage on the output side of the battery contactor. I predict this reading will be 0.00 which means that the contactor is indeed open. The reading that caused you concern can be a wildly variable number depending on what stuff is connected to the bus downstream of the contactor. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: starter contactor diodes
> >In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes: > ><<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted >diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >> > >Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back is >part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering). > >Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted spike >catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you. Their S811-1 is part of a PMA'd kit for installation of B&C starters on certified iron. I don't know if we knew about the availability of built in diodes when we did that kit. The S811 doesn't have the diode. You can mount one externally. Get a 1N5400 from Radio Shack (1N5401 or and other 5400 series is okay too). Banded end of diode connects to "S" terminal, other end of diode goes to mounting base bolt that holds contactor to firewall. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: starter contactor diodes
Date: Jul 23, 2001
Hi Bob, I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they are Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are talking about for the starter contactor? The Diodes they had were different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15 volts and 1 amp. Ed Perry edperry64(at)netzero.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter contactor diodes > > > > >In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes: > > > ><<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted > >diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >> > > > >Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back is > >part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering). > > > >Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted spike > >catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you. > > Their S811-1 is part of a PMA'd kit for installation of B&C starters > on certified iron. I don't know if we knew about the availability > of built in diodes when we did that kit. The S811 doesn't have > the diode. You can mount one externally. Get a 1N5400 from > Radio Shack (1N5401 or and other 5400 series is okay too). Banded > end of diode connects to "S" terminal, other end of diode goes > to mounting base bolt that holds contactor to firewall. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 24, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: starter contactor diodes
> >Hi Bob, > >I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they are >Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are >talking about for the starter contactor? Yes . . . > The Diodes they had were >different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15 >volts and 1 amp. >Ed Perry The terms "rectifier" and "diode" are virtually the same. The 1N5400 or any of it's close brothers (1N5401, 02, etc) is the same as the parts we use on our outgoing product. There are dozens of part numbers that would work in this application . . . spike catching on a contactor is not a particularly difficult or stressful task for the part to accomplish. I use the 1N5400 series because of their relative robustness and convenient size. All rectifiers are diodes but some diodes may not be practical for use as a rectifier. Rectifier is a term applied to a part of a power supply. These parts have to deal with substantial amounts of voltage and current. There are some small signal or switching diodes with ratings too small to be practical power devices but are suited to other tasks in low power signal circuits. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: starter contactor diodes
Date: Jul 24, 2001
Hi Again, Thanks for clarifying that for me. The other thing that I forgot to tell you is that if you go into the store it is a different part number. That also threw me off. The part number on the shelf is 276-1141. Thanks again, Ed Perry eperry(at)san.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:18 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter contactor diodes > > > > >Hi Bob, > > > >I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they are > >Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are > >talking about for the starter contactor? > > Yes . . . > > > > The Diodes they had were > >different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15 > >volts and 1 amp. > >Ed Perry > > > The terms "rectifier" and "diode" are virtually the same. > The 1N5400 or any of it's close brothers (1N5401, 02, etc) > is the same as the parts we use on our outgoing product. > There are dozens of part numbers that would work in this > application . . . spike catching on a contactor is not > a particularly difficult or stressful task for the > part to accomplish. I use the 1N5400 series because > of their relative robustness and convenient size. > > All rectifiers are diodes but some diodes may not > be practical for use as a rectifier. Rectifier > is a term applied to a part of a power supply. > These parts have to deal with substantial amounts > of voltage and current. There are some > small signal or switching diodes with ratings too > small to be practical power devices but are suited > to other tasks in low power signal circuits. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 24, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: starter contactor diodes
> >Hi Again, >Thanks for clarifying that for me. The other thing that I forgot to tell you >is that if you go into the store it is a different part number. That also >threw me off. The part number on the shelf is 276-1141. >Thanks again, >Ed Perry That's Radio Shack's catalog number. The 1N5400 is a part number for the component which may be manufactured by dozens of different companies and stocked by hundreds of distributors and dealers under their own catalog numbers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Battery Safety
Date: Jul 24, 2001
Hi Bob, In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the sparks start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or pos first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know! Best regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas RV4 N23BB Under going smoke test. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 24, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Safety
> >Hi Bob, >In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the sparks >start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or pos >first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know! >Best regards, >Bruce Bell >Lubbock, Texas >RV4 N23BB >Under going smoke test. The biggest hazard while swinging wrenches around batteries is to accidently get a wrench against the airframe while working with the (+) terminal of the battery with the (-) terminal still connected. Logic dictates that (-) terminal should be disconnected first and reconnected last. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Kluijfhout, PE1RUI" <jessevli(at)zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: Re: Battery Safety
Date: Jul 24, 2001
Hi Bruce, Always connect positive first and disconnect negative first. In that case you never will get sparks when you hit a ground point (as ground isnt connect to the battery). As you see I go out from negative ground, Ive youve positive ground the rule just chances. When you do the negative lead second, and you hit a ground point while fastening the negative lead, there wont be a spark as there isnt a potential voltage diffrence between ground and negative (if youve negative ground). Regards, Jesse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Safety > > Hi Bob, > In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the sparks > start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or pos > first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know! > Best regards, > Bruce Bell > Lubbock, Texas > RV4 N23BB > Under going smoke test. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PETER LAURENCE" <plaurence(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: MOV
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Electric Bob, I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device? Peter Laurence Wireing Velocity XL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 24, 2001
From: "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net>
Subject: Garmin GMA 340
I've had a Garmin GMA-340 installed in my Cozy for about 8 months. It seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I turn on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport, it breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off, regardless what frequency I have tuned. I've tried using a different handheld in the cabin, and also replaced the GMA-340, but the problem remains. I've traced all the grounds, and they all seem to be good. In talking with a couple avionics types, they start talking arcana. I'm planning to eventually rebuild my instrument panel, but not this summer. And the suggestions they are making for trouble shooting are not much simpler than just committing to rebuilding the panel. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has a simple solution like that tech magic somebody mentioned where you attach a little black box to an antenna and it somehow "muffles" the stray radiation? Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV?
> >Electric Bob, > >I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics >fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device? > > >Peter Laurence >Wireing Velocity XL When the first chapters of the 'Connection were written, I was trying to deduce the simplest, goofproof methods for a variety of tasks. We've been putting some kind of spike catcher across the coils of large relays and contactors for years . . . the silicon diode first became available in the early 60's. Diodes are polarity sensitive devices and if they're inadvertently hooked up backwards, the least effect is a popped breaker . . . and you can smoke wires. The MOV (metal oxide varistor) does about the same thing as a diode and better yet, it is an AC device . . . meaning that it can sorta do the job no matter which way it's wired. However, low voltage MOVs are not nearly as common as the silicon diode . . . and they're not quite as effective as a diode in the role of spike catcher. Sooooooo . . . . after recommending the MOV for about 6-7 years, I decided to go back to the diode. You can get them everywhere, they work better and the only down side is that you need to be both knowledgeable and careful in how you hook them up. If you check out our most recent encarnations of the power distribution diagrams, you'll see diodes across the contactor coils . . . some old drawings may still show an MOV or two . . . but these will be replaced as those pages come up for revision. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held
> >I've had a Garmin GMA-340 installed in my Cozy for about 8 months. It >seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I turn >on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport, it >breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off, >regardless what frequency I have tuned. I've tried using a different >handheld in the cabin, and also replaced the GMA-340, but the problem >remains. > > I've traced all the grounds, and they all seem to be good. In >talking with a couple avionics types, they start talking arcana. I'm >planning to eventually rebuild my instrument panel, but not this >summer. And the suggestions they are making for trouble shooting are >not much simpler than just committing to rebuilding the panel. > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has a simple solution like that >tech magic somebody mentioned where you attach a little black box to an >antenna and it somehow "muffles" the stray radiation? Control of inter and intra-system interference can be one of the most perplexing and frustrating of aviation tasks. A big part of our new design budgets are used up running black boxes, system mockups and indeed whole airplanes through the EMC facility at Raytheon. And sometimes, even all the advance work we know how to do isn't enough. Your situation offers still more stumbling blocks . . . Handhelds are NOT designed to be panel mounted so some manufacturer's take advantage of the relaxed interference control requirements. In this case, it sounds like the GMA-430 is the likely suspect. All radios, whether transmitter or receiver, have little oscillators inside used to manage signals. Radiation of these devices is supposed to be controlled and indeed, I suspect that the GMA-430 meets all the requirements. However, the requirements are to control radiation to a level needed for satisfactory for other airframe mounted devices . . . not handhelds with an antenna in close proximity to the GMA-430. I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430 is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic these days). Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio is supplied with a signal source more remotely located from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop to acceptable levels. If this is the case, perhaps you would entertain the idea of providing the handheld with a convenient patch connector into the existing comm antenna. You're probably not going to NEED the handheld unless the panel mounted comm is TU . . . so why not shift the comm antenna over to the handheld? Route the comm antenna coax through the cockpit so that you can add an intermediate connection to the feedline. A panel mounted female needs to be connected to the coax coming in from the antenna. A regular BNC cable male will do for the run up to the panel mounted radio. When handheld operation is dictated, unplug the stub going up to the panel mount and use a 3' or so piece of coax with a BNC male on each end to connect the hand held to the panel mounted jack. The handheld will give MUCH better performance as a backup to your panel mounted comm. And further, this may well be the answer for the interference problem. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RION BOURGEOIS" <rion(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV?
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Bob: if you hook them up backwards, will it damage the diode? Thanx, Rion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV? > > > > >Electric Bob, > > > >I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics > >fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device? > > > > > >Peter Laurence > >Wireing Velocity XL > > When the first chapters of the 'Connection were written, > I was trying to deduce the simplest, goofproof methods > for a variety of tasks. We've been putting some kind of > spike catcher across the coils of large relays > and contactors for years . . . the silicon diode first > became available in the early 60's. Diodes are polarity > sensitive devices and if they're inadvertently hooked up > backwards, the least effect is a popped breaker . . . and > you can smoke wires. > > The MOV (metal oxide varistor) does about the same thing > as a diode and better yet, it is an AC device . . . meaning > that it can sorta do the job no matter which way it's wired. > However, low voltage MOVs are not nearly as common as the > silicon diode . . . and they're not quite as effective as > a diode in the role of spike catcher. > > Sooooooo . . . . after recommending the MOV for about 6-7 > years, I decided to go back to the diode. You can get them > everywhere, they work better and the only down side is that > you need to be both knowledgeable and careful in how you > hook them up. If you check out our most recent encarnations > of the power distribution diagrams, you'll see diodes across > the contactor coils . . . some old drawings may still show > an MOV or two . . . but these will be replaced as those > pages come up for revision. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "I have not failed. I've just found ) > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." ) > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV?
> >Bob: if you hook them up backwards, will it damage the diode? Thanx, Rion Probably . . . it's easy to tell. Using an ohmmeter to test the diode, you should get some resistance reading greater than 1 ohm with one orientation. Reverse the leads and the reading should be infinite . . . higher value than your ohmmeter will read. A damaged diode will be less than 1 ohm resistance in both directions. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin GMA 340
> It > seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I > turn > on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport, > it > breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off, > regardless what frequency I have tuned. Bill> Bill, Does this only happen while transmitting? If so, then try connecting your handheld radio antenna output connection to the aircraft antenna coax. If you transmit 5 watts that close to any electronic equipment, you can expect it to be affected. The signal from the handheld radio is strong enough, while transmitting with the antenna inside the cabin, that the GNS 430 circuitry will receive it, even independent of its own antenna! The reason you just get static is that the amplifiers inside the 430 are most likely being overdriven (avalanche?). You gotta get the RF outta there or if your handheld radio has an adjustable output power, try it on a lower power setting or holding it further away from the panel. Good luck, Mike Salzman LNCE N811ES FB 25% Fairfield, CA http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held]
Bob, What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the same antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during normal ops, but it is convenient. Bill I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430 is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic these days). Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio is supplied with a signal source more remotely located from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop to acceptable levels. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: strobe noise in the radio
>Bob > >I put a panel mounted comm in my Kitfox, and when I torch off the stobes, I >get the oscillating squeal of the power supplies in my ear. The stobe power >supplies are in the wingtips. None of my wiring is the shielded variety >(except of course that antenna coax you made for me). How do you recommend >I attack this? > >Danny Williamson >Pride, LA Have you read the chapter on noise in my book? There are a number of questions that need to be answered to deduce the propagation mode for noise from strobe supplies into your headsets. Have you used a single point ground for all of the goodies mounted on the panel? Have you taken steps to insulate the microphone and headset jacks from the airframe? When you talk on radio, can others hear the whine in your transmitted signal? Does the volume control for either a radio -OR- intercom have an effect on the volume of noise? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held]
> > Bob, > > What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the same >antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a >second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during >normal ops, but it is convenient. Route the panel mounted comm coax through the cockpit so that you can add an intermediate connection to the feedline. A panel mounted female needs to be connected to the coax coming in from the antenna. A regular BNC cable male will do for the run up to the panel mounted radio. When handheld operation is dictated, unplug the stub going up to the panel mount and use a 3' or so piece of coax with a BNC male on each end to connect the hand held to the panel mounted jack. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Subject: Re:Coax
Bob: What is the difference between RG-142 and RG-400 coax? Some of the specs I've read say one is a solid conductor and made of steel. Thanks, Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: RG-142 vs. RG-400
> >Bob: > >What is the difference between RG-142 and RG-400 coax? Some of the specs I've >read say one is a solid conductor and made of steel. > >Thanks, >Steve The performance of RG-400 and RG-142 are identical. RG-142 has a solid center conductor which is somewhat easier to work with in terms of installing the center pin of a coax connector. Solid center conductors were prone to migration (cold flow) through the polyethylene insulation around the center conductor if the coax experienced a tight bend radius. This would result in failure of the feedline at some point in the future (several years). I'm not surethe same problem exists with the newer insulations used in RG-142 . . . my personal preference is RG-400 and thats what we stock. Either is fine from the perspective of functionality. A certainly minor and perhaps insignificant concern would be to limit bend radii on the RG-142 to a minimum of 3" . . . Bob . . . ( There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. ) ( That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to ) ( finding out what's right. ) ( -Carl Sagan- ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: strobe noise in the radio
All ground leads come to a common grounding block on the firewall, and the block has a strap to the frame. The battery is grounded to the frame back in the tail. All the headset jacks have insulating washers in them. The stobe noise is not transmitted over the air. The volume controls have no effect on the level of the stobe noise. ------------------------- Okay, does the noise go away when the radios are off? If so, only the intercom is being victimized. In this case, it's a relatively simple thing to filter the +14v coming into the intercom. You can get a kit of parts from Radio Shack (270-030) and assemble the choke and capacitor into a small project box also available from RS. In this case, the choke wants to face the noise source (bus supply for the intercom) and the capacitor wants to be across the power supply terminals to the intercom. You can haywire the components into the intercom's leadwires before you go to a lot of trouble for a hard mounting to see if it does the job. Plan B would require a filter at each strobe rated for more current than the 270-030 kit . . . let's see if this approach will do the job before we get out the big hammer. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held]
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Take a look at... http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapter Randy Lervold RV-8, N558RL www.rv-8.com > > Bob, > > What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the same > antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a > second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during > normal ops, but it is convenient. > > Bill > > > > > I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430 > is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal > enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting > out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic > these days). > > Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through > a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio > is supplied with a signal source more remotely located > from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop > to acceptable levels. > > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Radio Noise
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Good Evening Bob, Want to get your thumbs up on this! After I powered up the "4" with your power supply I started checking things out. The Val Com 760 radio has a loud hum or noise in it. Volume control made no difference on intensity. Fuses were pulled till I found the RMI Encoder and RMI Monitor both produced the noise. A call to Val Com and their Bob suggested a Radio Shack choke # 270-030A in the power line would do the job. I haven't done that yet, just wanted your input. Best regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas AOA has a woman in it. Talks to me every time I turn on the master switch! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrel Morisse" <dmorisse(at)northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: xpndr mode c problem
Date: Jul 28, 2001
After installing a Narco AT150 transponder and ACK30 encoder and finally getting an opportunity to test fly with ATC, I've found that not all is working as it should. At first ATC identified me and all was well. Transponder was working and mode C was working, although 100' off, but that could be a static or altimeter problem. About ten minutes later as I was nearing the radar source (Alpena MI) they suddenly told me that my transponder signal was no longer being received. Also I wasn't receiving the interrogation light. Actually I was still about ten miles south at about 1500 agl. So I turned the transponder off momentarily, then back on and this time mode A was working just fine, but mode C was indicating 400' at 2000' msl. I landed at Alpena, BSd with the guys for about an hour and took off. On the return trip southbound I found the exact same thing. Mode A was working fine, but Mode C was reading 400' at 2000 msl. I'm pretty sure this isn't a static problem. Bad pin connection perhaps? Are there any of you avionics gurus out there that might be able to help me troubleshoot this? Sure would appreciate it because the nearest avionics shop is 150 miles across state. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Darrel Kitfox S5 Outback ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: strobe noise in the radio
>In a message dated 7/27/2001 10:43:36 AM Central Daylight Time, >nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes: > > >>Okay, does the noise go away when the radios are off? If so, >>only the intercom is being victimized. In this case, it's a relatively >>simple thing to filter the +14v coming into the intercom. >> >>You can get a kit of parts from Radio Shack (270-030) >>and assemble the choke and capacitor into a small >>project box also available from RS. In this case, >>the choke wants to face the noise source (bus supply >>for the intercom) and the capacitor wants to be across >>the power supply terminals to the intercom. You can >>haywire the components into the intercom's leadwires >>before you go to a lot of trouble for a hard mounting >>to see if it does the job. >> >>Plan B would require a filter at each strobe rated for >>more current than the 270-030 kit . . . let's see if this >>approach will do the job before we get out the big >>hammer. > > >No, the noise only comes on with the radio. It's not present when only the >intercom is hot. > >Danny Aha! Interesting and important data point. Sounds like it's getting into the supply lead to the radio. I'm surprised that the strobes (as noisy as they are . . . they still meet the requirements for TSO and PMA . . . their DO-160 noise outputs are below maximums). Sounds like your radio may be unusually vulnerable. Let's run one more experiment: Get a pair of 6v lantern batteries from WallMart . . . hook them in series and use them to power the radio independently of the aircraft bus. If the propagation path we're theorizing about right now is the correct one, the noise will go away when the radio is battery powered. If it doesn't go away, we've got a tad more detective work to do. By the way, I presume were talking about a whining noise of perhaps variable pitch and not a "pop" that is heard only when the strobes fire. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds.
> >Take a look at... >http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapter > >Randy Lervold >RV-8, N558RL >www.rv-8.com I've looked this gizmo over. It has the potential for being quite useful but I've got some questions about it that are yet unanswered: I suspect that this device contains a relay used to transfer the comm antenna feedline from a panel mounted radio to the portable radio when the hand held is plugged in. This would imply that a source of power is available to energize the relay and effect the transfer. Power can come from two sources . . . either from ship's power or from the hand held. There is a way to configure the antenna output of a hand-held so that it carries some DC as well as signals so that when connected to the coupler, the coupler's relay knows that it's time to switch the antenna. The other way is to supply power from the airplane's bus and energize the relay by either sensing the presence of the hand held via DC path back through the antenna coax -OR- sensing the plug insertion. Two thoughts: (1) If power comes from the hand held, the hand-held has to be configured to make this work . . . that is, the KX99 antenna coupler is a mated accessory to the KS99 hand-held and it may not work with other brands. If power comes from the bus and one only needs to insert the proper plug into the jack to effect the transfer, then any hand-held will work. HOWEVER . . . if the reason you've fired up the hand-held is because the ship's bus is down and the panel mounted radio doesn't work, the the relay in the coupler won't work either. If it were my airplane, I'd do the cabin-mounted connector thing to make the comm antenna readily accessible to the hand-held via inexpensive, reliable, and no-power-required combination of connectors. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds.
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Bob, This device is completely passive, there is no power supplied or any active relays whatsoever. My understanding is that when the 1/8" mini-plug is inserted you are physically breaking the contact with the main comm and connecting the antenna in the handheld. If it required power to operate it would defeat the logic of installing it to start with. Regards, Randy Lervold > >Take a look at... > >http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapte r > > > >Randy Lervold > >RV-8, N558RL > >www.rv-8.com > > I've looked this gizmo over. It has the potential > for being quite useful but I've got some questions > about it that are yet unanswered: > > I suspect that this device contains a relay used > to transfer the comm antenna feedline from a panel > mounted radio to the portable radio when the > hand held is plugged in. > > This would imply that a source of power is available > to energize the relay and effect the transfer. > Power can come from two sources . . . either from > ship's power or from the hand held. There is a way > to configure the antenna output of a hand-held so that > it carries some DC as well as signals so that when > connected to the coupler, the coupler's relay knows > that it's time to switch the antenna. The other > way is to supply power from the airplane's bus > and energize the relay by either sensing the presence > of the hand held via DC path back through the antenna > coax -OR- sensing the plug insertion. > > Two thoughts: (1) If power comes from the hand held, the > hand-held has to be configured to make this work . . . > that is, the KX99 antenna coupler is a mated accessory > to the KS99 hand-held and it may not work with other > brands. If power comes from the bus and one only > needs to insert the proper plug into the jack to effect > the transfer, then any hand-held will work. > > HOWEVER . . . if the reason you've fired up the hand-held > is because the ship's bus is down and the panel mounted > radio doesn't work, the the relay in the coupler > won't work either. > > If it were my airplane, I'd do the cabin-mounted > connector thing to make the comm antenna readily > accessible to the hand-held via inexpensive, > reliable, and no-power-required combination of > connectors. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: strobe noise in the radio
> > >>. I'm surprised >>that the strobes (as noisy as they are . . . they still >>meet the requirements for TSO and PMA . . . their >>DO-160 noise outputs are below maximums). Sounds >>like your radio may be unusually vulnerable. > > >My strobes are the ones by Aeroflash........I'm not sure they're TSO'd. My >comm is a VAL 760. Note sure either. Let's do the lantern battery experiment for the radio and make sure the noise is coming in through the 14v supply. Then we'll add the filter to the radio's power lead. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds.
> >Bob, > >This device is completely passive, there is no power supplied or any active >relays whatsoever. My understanding is that when the 1/8" mini-plug is >inserted you are physically breaking the contact with the main comm and >connecting the antenna in the handheld. If it required power to operate it >would defeat the logic of installing it to start with. > >Regards, >Randy Lervold Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed" switch terminal. If this is the case, then the critter is hardly worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this functionality with about $5 worth of parts. I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this and get it posted tomorrow. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds.
Date: Jul 28, 2001
> > Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a > closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal > coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's > antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed" > switch terminal. > > If this is the case, then the critter is hardly > worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this > functionality with about $5 worth of parts. > I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this > and get it posted tomorrow. > *** That's EXACTLY what it is. It's a 1/8" miniature phone jack, mounted in a nice little shielded case with a pair of BNC's at the back. It's got captive nuts to mount it behind the panel, as well as a pair of tabs to mount it under a panel, your choice. It's FAA/PMA for installation in a Piper PA-28R-200 ( If I remember corectly ). For us certificated guys, the PMA means nothing for other airplanes - but it should grease the skids in getting a Field Approval. Of course, you homebrew guys just do whatever you want... $75 is a bit steep, yes. My local avionics shop sold me one for $45. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds
From: Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com>
Bob, This thread on the shielded passive antenna switch box (al la a phone jacks built in switches) makes me wonder about the effort we made in the "old days" (you remember), of protecting radios from each other. Things like separate antennas as far apart as practicable, transmit switches, relays, dummy loads, etc. What do we need to do today, in a basic sport plane without an audio panel to have two radios on line? When I think of this antenna switch as a back up emergency device---So OK. However, when I think of two transmission sources, tuned to the same frequency, with the out puts hanging out in the same box---well you know. Are radios today immune from overloads and open outputs? If we knew the generalized basic rules of a simple two radio system it would be very helpful. I think a lot of us will tune in on the big picture of this issue. Help...... Thanks, Gary P.S. No fair combining the power and mic on the same switch, :-). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Bob's Shop Notes: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds.
> >> >> Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a >> closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal >> coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's >> antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed" >> switch terminal. >> >> If this is the case, then the critter is hardly >> worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this >> functionality with about $5 worth of parts. >> I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this >> and get it posted tomorrow. >> > >*** That's EXACTLY what it is. It's a 1/8" miniature phone jack, mounted >in a nice little shielded case with a pair of BNC's at the back. It's >got captive nuts to mount it behind the panel, as well as a pair of >tabs to mount it under a panel, your choice. It's FAA/PMA for installation >in a Piper PA-28R-200 ( If I remember corectly ). For us certificated >guys, the PMA means nothing for other airplanes - but it should grease the >skids in getting a Field Approval. Of course, you homebrew guys just >do whatever you want... > > $75 is a bit steep, yes. My local avionics shop sold me one for >$45. Here's a roll-ur-own suggestion for a whole lot less money and more compact to boot: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Bob; At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip. I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through the same plastic conduit from wing root to tip and (2) having the strobe light firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the RV-6. What are your thoughts? Scott Jackson> http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Control stick wiring
Date: Jul 30, 2001
I'm wiring up the plugs on the control sticks of the Europa: each is fitted with a MAC trim switch and a PTT. It would be convenient to combine the grounds (-ve) from each at the plug, and then split them again to run up to the primary ground point and com radio - or am I creating potential problems for myself? all the best, Miles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
> >Bob; >At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail >strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip. > I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two >places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through the >same plastic conduit from wing root to tip No problem with the shielding . . . shielding guards against only one kind of noise coupling . . . electro-static. It cannot ward off magnetic coupling which is the major mode for long runs of parallel conductors. >and (2) having the strobe light >firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the RV-6. This is the biggie . . . and there's probably no way to avoid it. That strobe tube radiates like a bandit. Is your wingtip antenna a COMM or NAV? If a NAV antenna, don't worry about it. VOR is scheduled to die off. Second, the only time strobe noise is objectionable on VOR is if you're using the VOR receiver to gather weather info or you're listening to the VOR as a remote transmitter for some ground facility. In these rare instances, just turn the strobes off while your listening to the receiver. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: Battery Cable Runs
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
I have both my positive and negative #4AWG battery leads running inside 3/4" plastic conduit, from the battery box up to the battery contactor. The conduit is secured at the battery box and two adel clamps up to the contactor. Is this acceptable, or should these two leads be separated? Running them in the conduit makes for a clean installation, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Rob Acker (RV-6, wiring). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds
> >Bob, >This thread on the shielded passive antenna switch box (al la a phone jacks >built in switches) makes me wonder about the effort we made in the "old >days" (you remember), of protecting radios from each other. Things like >separate antennas as far apart as practicable, transmit switches, relays, >dummy loads, etc. What do we need to do today, in a basic sport plane >without an audio panel to have two radios on line? There were tons of "rules-of-thumb" mixed together with a few pounds of common sense. In a nutshell, there is little to be concerned with in terms of one radio's ability to do damage to another radio. Most issues are based in performance . . . i.e. the ability of one radio to continue to receive while you're transmitting on another . . . OR the ability of navigation equipment to provide good contiguous steering data in spite of strong local sources of RF on the airplane. Obviously, we'd still like to do the best we know how to do but there are increasingly small arenas in which to work. Antenna spacing is limited by aircraft size and esthetics. Bottom line is to do the best you can with present constraints and see how the system performs. If performance comes up lacking, then you'll have to do something different which will probably compromise your wishes for esthetics. > When I think of this >antenna switch as a back up emergency device---So OK. However, when I think >of two transmission sources, tuned to the same frequency, with the out puts >hanging out in the same box---well you know. Are radios today immune from >overloads and open outputs? If we knew the generalized basic rules of a >simple two radio system it would be very helpful. I think a lot of us will >tune in on the big picture of this issue. There is no danger with respect to the panel mounted radio doing damage to the hand held or vise-versa with the antenna coupler I've described. When the hand held is plugged in, the antenna is disconnected from the panel mounted radio . . . most radios are protected from damage for transmitting into an open circuit. But if you've plugged the hand held in, presumably the panel mounted radio is compromised so you wouldn't be trying to use it anyhow. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
> >Good Evening Bob, >Want to get your thumbs up on this! After I powered up the "4" with your >power supply I started checking things out. The Val Com 760 radio has a loud >hum or noise in it. Volume control made no difference on intensity. Fuses >were pulled till I found the RMI Encoder and RMI Monitor both produced the >noise. A call to Val Com and their Bob suggested a Radio Shack choke # >270-030A in the power line would do the job. I haven't done that yet, just >wanted your input. >Best regards, >Bruce Bell >Lubbock, Texas >AOA has a woman in it. Talks to me every time I turn on the master switch! Hmmmm . . . I'm disappointed that the VAL Com product is vulnerable to this. Sounds like they didn't do their homework. Try the choke (and the capacitor that comes with the kit). Put the choke in series with the power coming into the radio and the capacitor in parallel with the power on the radio side of the choke . . the capacitor is polarity sensitive so observe it's markings. Let me know how this works. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: lantern batteries
>Bob, > >You responded to a question by suggesting one "go to Walmart and get a couple of 6 volt lantern batteries...." > >I wanted to relate my experience with lantern batteries. > >I had an Oregon Avionics intercom and Telex headsets which I used in rented Cessnas some years ago. The intercom used either a 12V cigarette lighter plug, sometime not available or a 9V battery which was always conveniently near death and pricey. I decided to throw a 12V lantern batterywith 12V cigar lighter socket into my flight bag and eliminate my battery and connection problems forever. > >But the first battery went dead in only a couple of hours. I complained to the store owner and got a free replacement. The second battery, after landing one day, was red hot and I just managed to pull it out of the cockpit by the wires and throw it--smoking--onto the asphalt. Yikes! > >I surmised the construction of such batteries does not like sudden pressure changes. The 12V was not connected to the AC (except the audio ground I guess) Your thoughts? > I am mystified by your experience. The lantern batteries are simply arrays of "F" sized cells that have been around for about 60 years . . . first in carbon-zinc, then in Ni-Cad and now in alkaline. They are close cousins to the cells used in thousands of other products that fly on airplanes and experience the same pressure changes as the situation you describe. I'm inclined to suspect a quality problem with the way the batteries were assembled. Do you recall the brand? It would have been interesting to take the smoker apart and do a failure analysis of the battery. The only time I've even come close to getting any battery real hot was due to external short or overload in stuff I connected to it. I think the likelihood of a similar event happening to you again is VERY remote. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Cable Runs
> > >I have both my positive and negative #4AWG battery leads running inside 3/4" plastic conduit, from the battery box up to the battery contactor. The conduit is secured at the battery box and two adel clamps up to the contactor. > >Is this acceptable, or should these two leads be separated? Running them in the conduit makes for a clean installation, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. > >Rob Acker (RV-6, wiring). It is a very GOOD thing to keep these wires together. If you have room for conduit, do I infer that the battery is located behind the seat? If so, don't rip anything out now but be sensitive to possible future cranking performance issues. You may want to change out for 2AWG if cold weather starting is less vigorous than you would like. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Control stick wiring
> >I'm wiring up the plugs on the control sticks of the Europa: each is fitted >with a MAC trim switch and a PTT. It would be convenient to combine the >grounds (-ve) from each at the plug, and then split them again to run up to >the primary ground point and com radio - or am I creating potential problems >for myself? > >all the best, > >Miles I'd rather see separate grounds . . . you probably will experience no performance issues with a single ground . . . but one ground coming loose will take down two systems. My personal preference is to keep such things independent of each other. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Battery Cable Runs
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
Bob, as always thanks for your assistance. I was worried about the possibility of positive meeting negative at 10,000 ft. inside the cockpit, due to chaffing and the like. I take it from your response the tefzel insulation adequately protects againt this possibility. My battery box is in the standard RV-6 location, just behind the firewall with a 4 ft. total run to the starter. The conduit to the battery contactor is only 12" long, the positive battery lead ends there while the negative lead continues on to the firewall ground block. Rob. > > It is a very GOOD thing to keep these wires together. > If you have room for conduit, do I infer that the battery > is located behind the seat? If so, don't rip anything out > now but be sensitive to possible future cranking performance > issues. You may want to change out for 2AWG if cold weather > starting is less vigorous than you would like. > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my 'Connection #9 late last night. I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. Sounds like it won't work . ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > > > > >Bob; > >At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail > >strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip. > > I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two > >places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through the > >same plastic conduit from wing root to tip > > No problem with the shielding . . . shielding guards against only > one kind of noise coupling . . . electro-static. It cannot ward off > magnetic coupling which is the major mode for long runs of parallel > conductors. > > > >and (2) having the strobe light > >firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the RV-6. > > This is the biggie . . . and there's probably no way to avoid > it. That strobe tube radiates like a bandit. Is your wingtip > antenna a COMM or NAV? If a NAV antenna, don't worry about it. > VOR is scheduled to die off. Second, the only time strobe noise > is objectionable on VOR is if you're using the VOR receiver to > gather weather info or you're listening to the VOR as a remote > transmitter for some ground facility. In these rare instances, > just turn the strobes off while your listening to the receiver. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
> >Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my >'Connection #9 late last night. >I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing >us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. >Sounds like it won't work . I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's experiences have been. The noise levels may be acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Cable Runs
> > >Bob, as always thanks for your assistance. I was worried about the possibility of positive meeting negative at 10,000 ft. inside the cockpit, due to chaffing and the like. I take it from your response the tefzel insulation adequately protects againt this possibility.


June 26, 2001 - July 30, 2001

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ag