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AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ah
July 30, 2001 - September 15, 2001

True >My battery box is in the standard RV-6 location, just behind the firewall with a 4 ft. total run to the starter. The conduit to the battery contactor is only 12" long, the positive battery lead ends there while the negative lead continues on to the firewall ground block. Okay . . . I think you're going to be in good shape. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Assistance
Hi guys, I've a lurker here for a few weeks, as I try to learn what these egyptian notations mean on schematics. As a "newbie" I would like to thank Bob for incredible level of assistance that he provides here. Cheers, Warren. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
Date: Jul 30, 2001
As one data point, a local RV-8 is flying with wingtip strobes and comm antennas, no interference. I did take the time to shield the leads from the (in wing) strobe power supply to the strobe elements, routing the lead as far away from the antenna as space allowed. Side note - so far the observed coverage from the wing tip comm antennas has been good. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (systems install) Vienna, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > > > > >Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my > >'Connection #9 late last night. > >I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing > >us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. > >Sounds like it won't work . > > > I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's > experiences have been. The noise levels may be > acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead > and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you > have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Thanks-I'll give it a try. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > > > > >Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my > >'Connection #9 late last night. > >I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing > >us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. > >Sounds like it won't work . > > > I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's > experiences have been. The noise levels may be > acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead > and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you > have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Thanks Carl- sounds encouraging! ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > > As one data point, a local RV-8 is flying with wingtip strobes and comm > antennas, no interference. I did take the time to shield the leads from the > (in wing) strobe power supply to the strobe elements, routing the lead as > far away from the antenna as space allowed. > > Side note - so far the observed coverage from the wing tip comm antennas has > been good. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (systems install) > Vienna, VA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:17 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading > my > > >'Connection #9 late last night. > > >I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains > ringing > > >us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. > > >Sounds like it won't work . > > > > > > I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's > > experiences have been. The noise levels may be > > acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead > > and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you > > have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Good Afternoon Bob, Thank you for your help on this and all the other help you have given me on my RV4 project! I installed the 270-030A choke and it cut the noise by 80 to 90 percent. The supplied capacitor does not have a + or - on it. It has a bar with two zeros on it and arrows. Need help here! One end has a indentation around it. Am I correct that one end goes to the wire and the other end to ground? Best regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Radio Noise > > > > >Good Evening Bob, > >Want to get your thumbs up on this! After I powered up the "4" with your > >power supply I started checking things out. The Val Com 760 radio has a loud > >hum or noise in it. Volume control made no difference on intensity. Fuses > >were pulled till I found the RMI Encoder and RMI Monitor both produced the > >noise. A call to Val Com and their Bob suggested a Radio Shack choke # > >270-030A in the power line would do the job. I haven't done that yet, just > >wanted your input. > >Best regards, > >Bruce Bell > >Lubbock, Texas > >AOA has a woman in it. Talks to me every time I turn on the master switch! > > Hmmmm . . . I'm disappointed that the VAL Com product is > vulnerable to this. Sounds like they didn't do their homework. > Try the choke (and the capacitor that comes with the kit). > Put the choke in series with the power coming into the radio > and the capacitor in parallel with the power on the radio side > of the choke . . the capacitor is polarity sensitive so observe > it's markings. > > Let me know how this works. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
> >Good Afternoon Bob, >Thank you for your help on this and all the other help you have given me on >my RV4 project! I installed the 270-030A choke and it cut the noise by 80 to >90 percent. The supplied capacitor does not have a + or - on it. It has a >bar with two zeros on it and arrows. Need help here! One end has a >indentation around it. Am I correct that one end goes to the wire and the >other end to ground? >Best regards, >Bruce Bell the bar with the arrows probably points to the end of the capacitor that simply terminates the leadwire in the center of the aluminum can. Often times the arrow has (-) signs printed on it. This will be ground. The (+) end of the capacitor will be insulated from the aluminum can and will have some sort of obviously non-aluminum material around it. Often this is a black, hard paper, sometimes an plastic like epoxy seal. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance
> >Hi guys, > I've a lurker here for a few weeks, as I try to learn what these egyptian notations mean on schematics. > As a "newbie" I would like to thank Bob for incredible level of assistance that he provides here. >Cheers, >Warren. I'm working on revision 10 to the AeroElectric Connection. Chapter 1 is the BIG project . . . it's being updated to include information on schematic symbols and the components they represent. Looking to go to press about end of August. In the mean time, check your local library for electronics experimenter's and hobbyist publications. Amateur Radio Handbooks by the American Radio Relay League and Radio Society of Great Britain are often found on library shelves and would be good resources. This kind of information is almost always found in Chapter 1. Are you building an airplane? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com>
Subject: This new email format is a loser
Date: Jul 30, 2001
I notice that we now get email that do not identify them selves in to from or subject as relating to this forum. This makes it difficult to filter them into the right folder. Why the change? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference > >Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my >'Connection #9 late last night. >I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing >us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm. >Sounds like it won't work . I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's experiences have been. The noise levels may be acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Assistance
Bob, I have purchased a Sonerai IIL that I am rebuilding the engine on, and in the process, finding "situations" in the electrical side of things that don't look very good even to my untrained eye. Anticipate redoing most if not all of the wiring. Have learned a great deal by burglarizing the advice that comes by here. Thanks again. Cheers, Warren Are you building an airplane? > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance
> >Bob, > I have purchased a Sonerai IIL that I am rebuilding the engine on, and in the process, finding "situations" >in the electrical side of things that don't look very good even to my untrained eye. Anticipate redoing most if >not all of the wiring. Have learned a great deal by burglarizing the advice that comes by here. Thanks again. >Cheers, >Warren Check the down-loadable materials at www.aeroelectric.com Given the relative size and complexity of your project, I can suggest that a fresh start wouldn't be out of line. What engine goes in your airplane? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: This new email format is a loser
> >I notice that we now get email that do not identify them selves in to from >or subject as relating to this forum. This makes it difficult to filter them >into the right folder. > >Why the change? I'm not aware of any change. Arrivals to my email application look just like they did from the beginning. How long has the "new" format been plaguing you? Do you have another e-mail application you can try to see if it's something local to your computer? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Re: This new email format is a loser
> >I notice that we now get email that do not identify them selves in to from >or subject as relating to this forum. This makes it difficult to filter them >into the right folder. Mine filter just fine - what change are you referring to? I've not noticed any. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
From: jilewy(at)juno.com
Reading this thread has stimulated my curiosity. I also have a ValCom 760 and now have a loud (more of a scream than wine) when I switch on the alternator. I never noticed it when using my handheld as my main com unit. I thought well it could be a lot of things as it is a homebuilt and many people have had a hand in it somewhere. While I can do just about anything, I am not good at doing anything and it could well be my fault. However the radio is quite when the alternator switch is off. I have not tried plugging the headset directly into the aircraft jacks and bypassing the Flight Com portable to see if it still present but I have a gut feeling it is not the intercom. I am wondering if there could be a similar solution to solving the scream in my ears. Also would like to know if others using the ValCom are generating a lot of heat from the radio, and should I force cool it? Jim Wittman Tailwind ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "EWSpears" <ewspears(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Negative Battery Cable
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Bob, I'm building an RV8A and need to place the battery behind the rear baggage compt for weight and balance. The starter relay and master relay are mounted on the battery box. I'm running #2AWG to starter & #6AWG to main buss/ alternator. Unless you give me some very good reasons for not doing so; I'm planning on using a short piece of #2AWG from the batt neg to a fuselodge stringer and let the fuse be the neg lead. That much aluminum should equal a #0000 welding cable. I did this 7 years ago on the Avid I built and haven't had a speck of trouble even though Sae4130 isn't near as good of conductor as aluminum. Most of the people building RV's are running separate ground cable and even separate grounds all the way out to wingtip nav lights. What are your thoughts on the matter? Thanks, Esten Spears, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Val Com 760 Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Good morning Bob, Installed the capacitor as instructed. Results are, with RMI encoder and Monitor off, no noise. With both units on a little noise. This is about 95 percent better than before the Radio Shack kit #270-030A Filter kit was installed. The Encoder makes a little more noise than the Monitor. 760 volume control makes no difference on the noise. Remains the same with volume set high or low. The test conditions are- power is supplied with your power supply, in my garage and through the 403mc intercom. With the engine running and the four exhaust pipes banging at my feet I don't think I will hear the radio noise. But from a purist of view the noise is still there! Best regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas Smoke test in progress! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Val Com 760 Radio Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Just had a conversation with Ron at RMI. He ran me through the procedure to turn off the back lighting on the RMI Encoder and Monitor. That was causing the noise in the head set. He said I needed to run the audio input from the Encoder and Monitor directly to head phone jack. I ran it to the 403mc aux pin. He said his units are set up to drive the audio directly to the head phone jacks. So things are starting to come together. You got to love this list! Haven't shot myself yet! Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Val Com 760 Noise
> >Good morning Bob, >Installed the capacitor as instructed. Results are, with RMI encoder and >Monitor off, no noise. With both units on a little noise. This is about 95 >percent better than before the Radio Shack kit #270-030A Filter kit was >installed. The Encoder makes a little more noise than the Monitor. 760 >volume control makes no difference on the noise. Remains the same with >volume set high or low. The test conditions are- power is supplied with your >power supply, in my garage and through the 403mc intercom. With the engine >running and the four exhaust pipes banging at my feet I don't think I will >hear the radio noise. But from a purist of view the noise is still there! Did you do the "lantern battery" test? Did the noise go away completely then? It would be interesting to see if the noises go away when the perpetrators are powered by lantern battery and the 760 is running from the bus. Also, when doing the lantern battery test, make sure the power ground for the device being tested is still hooked to your panel ground. Just for grins, it would also be interesting to know if another 270-030 kit installed on the noisemakers would finally get the noise down to inaudible. Sorry if I seem to be creating a big science project for you . . . not many builders take advantage of ground power supplies to find out how good or bad their systems really are with respect to inter-system noise effects. I'm glad that the improvement was profound . . . but I'm disappointed that the the three products are so incompatible . . . either the Encoder and Monitor put out too much noise or the 760 is too sensitive to noise . . . or both. It's a pretty funky deal when customers have to go to such lengths to accommodate the manufacturer's shortcomings. You're probably right in that the remaining noise will become insignificant when the engine is running. If it's any consolation, there are some damned expensive heavy iron that suffer similar situations that have been deemed "insignificant" after the engines are started. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
> >Reading this thread has stimulated my curiosity. I also have a ValCom >760 and now have a loud (more of a scream than wine) when I switch on the >alternator. I never noticed it when using my handheld as my main com >unit. I thought well it could be a lot of things as it is a homebuilt and >many people have had a hand in it somewhere. While I can do just about >anything, I am not good at doing anything and it could well be my fault. >However the radio is quite when the alternator switch is off. I have not >tried plugging the headset directly into the aircraft jacks and bypassing >the Flight Com portable to see if it still present but I have a gut >feeling it is not the intercom. I am wondering if there could be a >similar solution to solving the scream in my ears. An interesting data point . . . when combined with Mr. Bell's experience, it reinforces a notion that perhaps the ValCom radio is the more guilty appliance. You might try the Radio Shack 270-030 filter on your radio and see what transpires. >Also would like to know if others using the ValCom are generating a lot >of heat from the radio, and should I force cool it? This radio is all solid state and should draw less than 200 mA in the receive mode. This is about 3 watts dissipation inside the radio . . . it shouldn't need cooling. Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences to share? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
Date: Jul 31, 2001
> Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences > to share? > Bob . . . Yup, my val com 760 picks up noise from the ignition and the strobles. I have a Rotax 912 in a model 5 Kitfox. I also get noise from the intercom. I may try the filter you mentioned. Strangely, the noise is intermittent. Sometimes it's almost non existant, but most of the time it's there. Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
> > > Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences > to share? Also, I am building the RMI engine monitor - anyone else report noise from it? Gary Liming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
From: jilewy(at)juno.com
I was thinking maybe the lights that display the frequencies was generating the heat, is that possible? If so is it nothing to worry about? No complaints from ATC yet. To reiterate though, once I toggle off the alternator the scream goes away. I will ad the filter and see what happens. Jim writes: > > > An interesting data point . . . when combined with Mr. Bell's > experience, > it reinforces a notion that perhaps the ValCom radio is the more > guilty appliance. You might try the Radio Shack 270-030 filter > on your radio and see what transpires. > > > >Also would like to know if others using the ValCom are generating a > lot > >of heat from the radio, and should I force cool it? > > This radio is all solid state and should draw less than 200 mA in > the receive mode. This is about 3 watts dissipation inside > the radio . . . it shouldn't need cooling. > > Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences > to share? > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
Date: Aug 01, 2001
>>Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences to share?<< On the other hand, are there any out there who feel that the Val Com 760 is the way to go? I am at the point in my Long Ez project to start installing the avionics and instruments that have been quietly waiting on a shelf for the last 15 years. Somehow, I don't think my old, 360 channel, tube filled Narco 12A is going to hack it! I've been checking out the Val Com 760 in the Spruce catalog because of it's price and size, and also possibly the Micro Air 2-1/4 inch model. The Val Com appears to be an 8 watt, single display unit, while the Micro Air is a 7 watt, dual display. Any comments? Harley http://www.AgelessWings.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Rob Mokry <robmokry(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
Using RMI Uencoder and Engine analizer with great results! Harmon Rocket N540RM Gary Liming wrote: > > > > > > > Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences > > to share? > > Also, I am building the RMI engine monitor - anyone else report noise from it? > > Gary Liming > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Radio Noise
> > >>>Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences to >share?<< > >On the other hand, are there any out there who feel that the Val Com 760 is >the way to go? I am at the point in my Long Ez project to start installing >the avionics and instruments that have been quietly waiting on a shelf for >the last 15 years. Somehow, I don't think my old, 360 channel, tube filled >Narco 12A is going to hack it! > >I've been checking out the Val Com 760 in the Spruce catalog because of it's >price and size, and also possibly the Micro Air 2-1/4 inch model. > >The Val Com appears to be an 8 watt, single display unit, while the Micro >Air is a 7 watt, dual display. > >Any comments? The MicroAir is only a 4watt radio but it doesn't matter. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760vhf.html We've sold about a dozen of these radios but I suspect only about half are flying yet. Of those who are using them, I've had no reported noise issues. The next time I get into the EMC lab at RAC, I'm going to run the noisy-bus test on this radio for myself and see how well Microair did their homework. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: RE: Radio Noise
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Thanks for the quick reply, Bob... Didn't realize you sold the Micro Air until after I read your reply! And that recommendation from Jim Weir is probably the best selling point...after all, his antenna is currently buried in my winglet Well, the Micro Air is smaller, lighter and has more features, but is the extra $200 more than the Val Com worth those extra features? Or, conversely, is it a "you pay for what you get" with the noise problem that some are currently seeing with the Val Com an example? >>I'm going to run the noisy-bus test on this radio for myself << I'll be waiting for your report, meanwhile, I'm searching the cushions for coins! Harley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Radio Noise
Date: Aug 01, 2001
> > the EMC lab at RAC, I'm going to run the noisy-bus test > on this radio for myself and see how well Microair did *** Just curious, What is the noisy-bus test? Back when I was programming railroad equipment for fun & profit, we had two basic noise tests: * The engineer had a CB radio with a rubber duck antenna at the end of a four-foot coax. He'd stick that sucker inside our unit, transmit, and poke around for RF on the traces. * He also had a relay wired up to turn itself off. It would buzz like a banshee. There was also a capacitor in there to make it ring more. It may seem primitive, but he created some of the cleanest, most reliable electronics I ever saw. The pulses looked like out of a textbook. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
From: jilewy(at)juno.com
I am very happy with the service from ValCom people and very happy with the ability of the com itself. I suggest buying the intercom module, frequency hold and harness. I did my own and cost twice as much in frustration and time. just an opinion mindya Jim writes: > > > > >>Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences > to > share?<< > > On the other hand, are there any out there who feel that the Val Com > 760 is > the way to go? I am at the point in my Long Ez project to start > installing > the avionics and instruments that have been quietly waiting on a > shelf for > the last 15 years. Somehow, I don't think my old, 360 channel, tube > filled > Narco 12A is going to hack it! > > I've been checking out the Val Com 760 in the Spruce catalog because > of it's > price and size, and also possibly the Micro Air 2-1/4 inch model. > > The Val Com appears to be an 8 watt, single display unit, while the > Micro > Air is a 7 watt, dual display. > > Any comments? > > Harley > > http://www.AgelessWings.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Eedy" <pecch(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Assistance
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Hi Bob Placed an order for the book & CD on July 1. No major rush other than personal impatience; I'll wait for the latest to save an update. I seem unable to email you from work or home; with an immediate bounce "destination mail server refused to accept it." Regards Peter Eedy pecch(at)ozemail.com.au Griffith. NSW. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Assistance >>Lots of good stuff clipped. > > I'm working on revision 10 to the AeroElectric Connection. Chapter > 1 is the BIG project . . . it's being updated to include information > on schematic symbols and the components they represent. Looking to go > to press about end of August. > > > Bob . . . > >>Lots of good stuff clipped. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Mornin', Jim... >>I am very happy with the service from ValCom people and very happy with the ability of the com itself.<< Thanks for the advice...I did a little inet searching yesterday, including Val Com's web site, and found that a lot of people are using them and not saying much about it...I guess that means that they've had no problems with them...or they are just sitting on a shelf somewhere! Seem to be more of them around than the Micro Air, too. I've seen prices on them as low as $400 new, and $250 used. Still looking for coins under the cushions here! Harley http://www.AgelessWings.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: Rob Mokry <robmokry(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: marker beacon receiver
Bob, I wanted to install a marker beacon antenna with in my fiberglass wingtip. Using foil tape what would be an apprropriate length. I have a 58" chord to work with (RV series). Thanks Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Val Com 760 Noise
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Hi All, Seeing that I started this thread please let me make a couple of comments. 1. I picked the Val Com 760 as I have been using one in my A35 Bonanza for the past 12 years with out any problems and the price is right. 2. My conversations with Val Com have been very helpful and they are quick to say "send it back and we will fix it". Warranty starts when the power is first turned on, not date of sale. Customer service is excellent! Would I buy another? Yes! 3. RMI is a customer service operation. Ron and his Girl Friday have always helped me and solved any problems I have had. From the start Ron said to connect the audio out puts directly to the headphone jack. I did not do this, but will. When I do I will make a report. Ron talked me through the procedures to turn the back lighting off. Read the manuals it is in there! Would I buy RMI again? Yes! 4. Bob Nuckolls has to be a Saint to hang in there with some of the questions I have asked him. He does this in his spare time! Thank you Bob for all your help. Back to the RV4. Regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: marker beacon receiver
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Rob, The equation for a 1/4 wavelength antenna is: Length (ft) = 234/frequency(MHZ) For MB (75 MHZ) this gives length of 3.12ft. This is an approximation for a thin antenna in free space. For a fat (in this case foil tape) the actual resonant length for 75 MHZ will be shorter, perhaps 5-10% or so. How you mount it will also affect the resonant frequency. If there is capacitive coupling to the rest of the plane, this will also make the antenna too long for the desired frequency. The easiest thing to do is mount a 3ft or so long length in the wing tip, feed it from a connector attached (shield grounded) to the outermost rib. The antenna attaches to the center pin on the outboard side of this bulkhead BNC connector. Use an SWR analyzer if you can borrow one and measure the actual resonant frequency. If too low, trim a 1/4" or so off at a time until you are close to 75MHZ. For practical installations, this is not a critical antenna. MBs radiate a relatively huge amount of energy straight up. A not so perfect antenna should fill the function as well as a finely tuned one. Don't worry if you can't find an SWR analyzer, make the antenna and see if it works. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (systems install) Vienna, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Mokry" <robmokry(at)pacbell.net> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: marker beacon receiver > > Bob, > I wanted to install a marker beacon antenna with in my fiberglass > wingtip. Using foil tape what would be an apprropriate length. I have a > 58" chord to work with (RV series). > Thanks Rob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Corner" <jcorner(at)home.com>
Subject: Microair
Date: Aug 02, 2001
I have installed one of Bob's Microair units in my Nesmith Cougar, replacing an older but very noisy radio. Bob also supplies a prewired harness which was easy to install. The result is one of the quietest small aircraft radios that I have ever used. The built in Microair intercom is also very good when used with a press to talk switch. The only shortcoming that I can see is that it would be nice if the radio had a built in aux input for music. Its a great little radio Thanks Bob Jim Corner The MicroAir is only a 4watt radio but it doesn't matter. > See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760vhf.html > > We've sold about a dozen of these radios but I suspect only > about half are flying yet. Of those who are using them, I've > had no reported noise issues. The next time I get into > the EMC lab at RAC, I'm going to run the noisy-bus test > on this radio for myself and see how well Microair did > their homework. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Microair
Does anyone know anything about their transponder yet? ~Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: impulse couplings
I have impulse couplings on both mags, and am wondering how to wire my ACS A-510-2 ignition switch. The instructions say to use a jumper on the right mag terminal when the left has impulse coupling. It looks like this jumper grounds the right mag when "Start" is selected, and all I need to do is leave the jumper off to have both mags active when starting. Is this correct? Thanks. http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Rotax 912 Regulator
Date: Aug 03, 2001
I'm running a 912 in my kitfox and noticed some strange behavior lately. The voltmeter will show low voltage as if the alternator were not working then suddenly the voltage will go up to normal and I'll start hearing the normal whine in the headset. It will run a while then go low voltage again. It just continues to do this off and on during a flight, though it has kept the battery charged. Does this sound like a bad regulator? How can I test this or fix it? thanks, Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: impulse couplings
> >I have impulse couplings on both mags, and am wondering how to wire my ACS A-510-2 ignition >switch. The instructions say to use a jumper on the right mag terminal when the left has impulse >coupling. It looks like this jumper grounds the right mag when "Start" is selected, and all I >need to do is leave the jumper off to have both mags active when starting. Is this correct? > >Thanks. If you have impulse couplers on both mags, you don't use the kill-during-start jumper for the right mag. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 Regulator
> >I'm running a 912 in my kitfox and noticed some strange behavior lately. The >voltmeter will show low voltage as if the alternator were not working then >suddenly the voltage will go up to normal and I'll start hearing the normal >whine in the headset. It will run a while then go low voltage again. It just >continues to do this off and on during a flight, though it has kept the >battery charged. >Does this sound like a bad regulator? How can I test this or fix it? >thanks, >Cliff I'd sure check over the wiring . . .you may have an intermittent connection. As I recall, that regulator is potted and not repairable. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: marker beacon receiver
> >Rob, > > The equation for a 1/4 wavelength antenna is: > > Length (ft) = 234/frequency(MHZ) > > For MB (75 MHZ) this gives length of 3.12ft. This is an approximation >for a thin antenna in free space. For a fat (in this case foil tape) the >actual resonant length for 75 MHZ will be shorter, perhaps 5-10% or so. How >you mount it will also affect the resonant frequency. If there is >capacitive coupling to the rest of the plane, this will also make the >antenna too long for the desired frequency. > > The easiest thing to do is mount a 3ft or so long length in the wing >tip, feed it from a connector attached (shield grounded) to the outermost >rib. The antenna attaches to the center pin on the outboard side of this >bulkhead BNC connector. Use an SWR analyzer if you can borrow one and >measure the actual resonant frequency. If too low, trim a 1/4" or so off at >a time until you are close to 75MHZ. > > For practical installations, this is not a critical antenna. MBs >radiate a relatively huge amount of energy straight up. A not so perfect >antenna should fill the function as well as a finely tuned one. Don't worry >if you can't find an SWR analyzer, make the antenna and see if it works. Marker beacon signals are HUGE . . . you're passing right over a 5 watt transmitter with a gain antenna pointed straight up. A wet string would probably pick up this signal. I've had a number of builders with plastic (glass and epoxy - NOT grahite) airplanes simply plug a 40" piece of wire into the antenna jack on the marker beacon receiver and tape it to the inside of the fuselage in a way that routes it as much as possible from other wiring or conductive components. One builder mounted his receiver in the tailcone behind the seat and ran his 40" piece of wire aft down the side, above flight control cables. He say's it worked really well. Carl's advice is well given . . . give it a try and see what works. I wouldn't go so far as to run a feedline out to a wingtip. This is much more complicated than it needs to be. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Microair
> >I have installed one of Bob's Microair units in my Nesmith Cougar, replacing >an older but very noisy radio. Bob also supplies a prewired harness which >was easy to install. >The result is one of the quietest small aircraft radios that I have ever >used. The built in Microair intercom is also very good when used with a >press to talk switch. >The only shortcoming that I can see is that it would be nice if the radio >had a built in aux input for music. >Its a great little radio >Thanks Bob > >Jim Corner I've got the parts laying on the bench for a do-it-yerself audio isolation amplifier that will combine several radios, stereo audio and warning tones into your headset system. I'll use the "cladboarding" technique described in an article http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cladboard/cladboard.html and using a diagram similar to: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf Maybe I can get to it this weekend and put instructions up on the website. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Microair Transponder
> >Does anyone know anything about their transponder yet? >~Warren I have an open PO with my distributor for 3 of these little critters as soon as they're in-country. . . . Will post available notice on this list and on my website. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise & New Article on Website
> >> >> the EMC lab at RAC, I'm going to run the noisy-bus test >> on this radio for myself and see how well Microair did > >*** Just curious, > > What is the noisy-bus test? Back when I was programming railroad >equipment for fun & profit, we had two basic noise tests: > > * The engineer had a CB radio with a rubber duck antenna at the end >of a four-foot coax. He'd stick that sucker inside our unit, transmit, >and poke around for RF on the traces. > > * He also had a relay wired up to turn itself off. It would buzz like >a banshee. There was also a capacitor in there to make it ring more. > > It may seem primitive, but he created some of the cleanest, most reliable >electronics I ever saw. The pulses looked like out of a textbook. Both of these techniques are excellent first-look activities to flush out potential problems. Similar tests have been recommended many venues for years. I've just formalized a Aero-Electric List post on DO-160 to my website. You can get this document at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/do160.html The "noisy bus" test I'll do on the Microair will be to inject square wave stress into the 14v power lead with an amplitude and frequency curve recommended by DO-160. Another test will use the "buzzing relay" stress you've described above. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tiny tach for lycomings
Has anyone successfully used the Micro-1000 electronic tach from Aircraft Spruce on a Lycoming O-320? I have one and it doesn't work. I am trying to find out if it is defective or incompatible in some way. I have a call in to the manufacturer, Design Technology, but have not heard back from them yet. Thanks. http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Noise
> >> Are there any other ValCom users out there with noise experiences >> to share? >> Bob . . . > >Yup, my val com 760 picks up noise from the ignition and the strobles. I >have a Rotax 912 in a model 5 Kitfox. I also get noise from the intercom. I >may try the filter you mentioned. Strangely, the noise is intermittent. >Sometimes it's almost non existant, but most of the time it's there. >Cliff Hmmmm . . . the intermittent feature is interesting. Does the volume knob on the radio make any difference in the amount of noise you hear or is it there even with the volume turned all the way down? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: marker beacon receiver - part II
I see I missed getting the metal airplane case covered on marker beacon antennas . . . If you have a metal airplane it's worth trying an antenna under a fiberglas wingtip. I think I'd use an antenna analyzer to optimize it. Due to close poximity of metal wing and tip-rib close out, the 40" of wire won't even be close. Run the coax shield to ground at the tip rib. Extend the center conductor on a piece of cardboard, plexiglas, fiberglas sheet, or some other suitable "shelf" bolted to the tip rib and shaped so that it fits inside the tip fairing. This will let you tune the antenna while the fairing is removed and get it real close to optimum. You'll find that installing the tip fairing will make the antenna too long due to loading effects of wiring to lights on tip. It might take several installation and removal cycles of the tip to do a final trim of the marker beacon antenna's length. Bob. . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: WEEKEND SEMINAR - Racine, WI 2 WEEKS!
The next weekend seminar we're presenting starts two weeks from tomorrow, August 18, in Racine, WI. Dee and I will be driving from Wichita and we'd like a chance to meet many of you and talk about your project. We're meeting on the John H. Batten airport. Some of you may be able to fly in daily and join us for some down and dirty electro-speak. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Racine.html for times, location and local hotel information. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: marker beacon receiver - part II
Date: Aug 03, 2001
> > If you have a metal airplane it's worth trying an antenna > under a fiberglas wingtip. I think I'd use an antenna > analyzer to optimize it. Due to close poximity of > metal wing and tip-rib close out, the 40" of wire > won't even be close. > [...description of tweeking and pruning...] *** Gee, if this wasn't a highly critical aircraft application, I'd be tempted to try a nonresonant voltage probe antenna feeding an emitter follower that would drive the MB receiver input. No peaking, no tweeking... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: WEEKEND SEMINAR - Need list server relay
I used o participate in about a dozen list-server activities but he e-mail burden became too much. Matt Dralle graciously offered relief with his support of the Aero-Electric List. I would sincerely appreciate it if the folks who frequent the Aero-Electric List could relay the following information to other amateur built airplane list-servers on which they participate: Thanks! ----- Electrical Systems Weekend Seminar ----------- The next weekend seminar we're presenting starts two weeks from tomorrow, August 18, in Racine, WI. Dee and I will be driving from Wichita and we'd like a chance to meet many of you and talk about your project. We're meeting on the John H. Batten airport. Some of you may be able to fly in daily and join us for some down and dirty electro-speak. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Racine.html for times, location and local hotel information. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: New Article on Website
Hi Bob, and List, On your new entry for the DO-160 (thanks a bunch, especially for the link to RTCA) on your website, you write: >The solid state power distribution assembly for a new target I'm working on is ALL d-sub >connectors in spite of the fact that three outputs are rated at over 20A continuous and one >input is rated for 40A continuous. There are ways to make this work that allow you to take >advantage of a wide variety of relatively low cost connectors and tools with military qualified >pins at the critical junctures in the connector. I could use some simple guidance here - assuming one correctly applied pin on both sides of the connector, how much current can I safely pass through one of them before needing to split the power connection between two pins? or Three? or Four? Why not keep power on good ole AMP/Molex connectors? Gary Liming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: Rick DeCiero <rsdec1(at)star.net>
Subject: Micro-1000 tach
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tiny tach for lycomings Has anyone successfully used the Micro-1000 electronic tach from Aircraft Spruce on a Lycoming O-320? I have one and it doesn't work. I am trying to find out if it is defective or incompatible in some way. I have a call in to the manufacturer, Design Technology, but have not heard back from them yet. Thanks. Andrew, I had purchased a Micro-1000 tachometer from Aircraft Spruce and ended up returning it when I found a tach from Van's aircraft. The Van's tach is more appropriately marked for the Lycoming O-320. Van's tach is also available with a 12" extension cable so that you can mount the signal generator on the firewall if necessary. You can check it out on their web site. It is a very nice looking 2 1/4" instrument and less expensive than the Micro-1000. Van's also has a line of 2 1/4" gauges that are full sweep electrical gauges. I would have used all of his gauges had I seen them before purchasing another brand. I would try to return the Micro-1000 assuming that you have not beat it up. I buy almost exclusively from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. While I have had some minor problems, their customer service has been excellent and whenever I have had a problem they always bent over backwards to correct any issues. As always, you must be an informed consumer. Their company also supports and sponsors many aviation activities and I believe in supporting them as a show of appreciation for their commitment to general and experimental aviation. Good luck, Rick D. Murphy Rebel N754SM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Corner" <jcorner(at)home.com>
Subject: Rotax 912 Regulator
Date: Aug 04, 2001
> I'm running a 912 in my kitfox and noticed some strange behavior lately. The > voltmeter will show low voltage as if the alternator were not working then > suddenly the voltage will go up to normal and I'll start hearing the normal > whine in the headset. It will run a while then go low voltage again. It just > continues to do this off and on during a flight, though it has kept the > battery charged. > Does this sound like a bad regulator? How can I test this or fix it? > thanks, > Cliff I had a very similar problem with my 582 powered Kitfox. After replacing the Voltage regulator with no results, I finally traced the problem to the Voltmeter itself, and the strange headset noises disappeared. The odd thing was that whenever I connected my portable voltmeter in paroled the problem would never appear. I finally reasoned that with the voltage deviations (down to about 8 volts) that I was getting and a battery in the circuit there had to be a serious short in the wiring (not evident) or the voltmeter was the problem. Good luck Jim Corner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: New Article on Website
>On your new entry for the DO-160 (thanks a bunch, especially for the link >to RTCA) on your website, you write: > > >The solid state power distribution assembly for a new target I'm working >on is ALL d-sub >connectors in spite of the fact that three outputs are >rated at over 20A continuous and one > >input is rated for 40A continuous. There are ways to make this work , > how much current can I safely pass through >one of them before needing to split the power connection between two >pins? or Three? or Four? >Gary Liming I used to think that splitting power connections was not good practice because if one line/connector fails you would not know about it until the remaining connectors started to overheat. Is this wrong? Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: D-subs versus others . . .
> >I could use some simple guidance here - assuming one correctly applied pin >on both sides of the connector, how much current can I safely pass through >one of them before needing to split the power connection between two >pins? or Three? or Four? For the target project, I derated D-sub pins to 4A. For larger current requirements, I parallel whatever is necessary to keep individual pin loading to 4A or less. To parallel two pins, you need to swamp out the small variation in resistance from pin to pin. It's seldom satisfactory, for example, to simply short an array of pins together at the back of the connector and expect current through the array to distribute evenly across the array. Taking a cue from past tasks where I needed to parallel multiple transistors in a power control circuit (we added small value ballast resistors in series with the emitter lead of each transistor) I reasoned that we can short all the pins together at the connector on one half (in this case the etched circuit board side). For the mating connector, each pin gets a 22AWG wire about 10" long. The array of wires is joined to a common butt-splice. The other side of the butt splice carries on with the size of wire appropriate for the circuit's total current. The approximately 10 milliohms of wire resistance offered by each pigtail has the same effect as the ballast resistors in an array of paralleled transistors. Tiny variations in resistance from pin-to-pin a insignificant compared to the value of the ballast resistance. > Why not keep power on good ole AMP/Molex >connectors? The D-sub connector is compact. You can get very high quality gold plated pins for them. They're easily worked with low cost tools . . . even if you use the machined pins. The AMP Mate-n-Lock and Molex connectors don't come in right angle PC mount versions. Their contact density is much lower than the D-sub. I don't think you can get them in greater numbers than 12 contacts per plug/socket. If you're building a product where you'd like to mix high current (10A+) wires in with small signal wires, the AMP/MOLEX solutions will either have you paralleling conductors in the small pins -OR- having to upsize the connector just because you have one or two wires out of the total that carry heavy current. The D-sub solution offers a fair selection of connector sizes (9, 15, 25, 37, 50) and a large range of connector configurations that let you deal seamlessly with panel mount, ecb mount and cable mounted versions. You can easily intermix micro-amp signal and control with some rather hefty power wiring with a single technology. There are some new circular connectors from AMP that use the same pins as the D-sub . . . these too might be considered for similar treatment . . . I'm not sure if AMP offers any ECB mount versions yet . . . and it's unlikely that there will ever be a right-angle ECB version. All things considered, in spite of the ugly hole you have to cut to mount a D-sub, the availability of low cost, high quality pins and inexpensive tooling combine to make them attractive for a broad range of applications. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: marker beacon receiver - part II
> >> >> If you have a metal airplane it's worth trying an antenna >> under a fiberglas wingtip. I think I'd use an antenna >> analyzer to optimize it. Due to close poximity of >> metal wing and tip-rib close out, the 40" of wire >> won't even be close. >> >[...description of tweeking and pruning...] > >*** Gee, if this wasn't a highly critical aircraft application, I'd be >tempted to try a nonresonant voltage probe antenna feeding an emitter >follower that would drive the MB receiver input. No peaking, no tweeking... > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) Not sure that wouldn't do just fine. You could transorb protect the transistor. Why don't you check this out and feed me the results for an article we can publish. Another option is a tuned ferrite rod antenna. I think there were a number of commercial products that provided a reduced volume antenna for marker beacon receivers using this technology. You could house it in a small bubble on the bottom of the fuselage or hide it in a wingtip. Another interesting antenna I've seen is a "u-channel" of aluminum about 10" long inside the fuselage that peers out through a fiberglas window in the fuselage lower skin. The channel is closed at both ends and has a center conductor grounded to an end plate at one end and tuned to 75 MHz with a capacitor at the other end. A hairpin loop couples this open sided cavity to a coax feedline that drives the receiver. This kind of antenna would be easy to flush mount on a metal airplane's fuselage or simply mount facing down on the inside of a plastic fuselage. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: New Article on Website
> >> >The solid state power distribution assembly for a new target I'm working >>on is ALL d-sub >connectors in spite of the fact that three outputs are >>rated at over 20A continuous and one >> >input is rated for 40A continuous. There are ways to make this work , >> how much current can I safely pass through >>one of them before needing to split the power connection between two >>pins? or Three? or Four? >>Gary Liming > >I used to think that splitting power connections was not good practice >because if one line/connector fails you would not know about it until the >remaining connectors started to overheat. Is this wrong? This has been the standard saw . . . but let's suppose you have four bolts holding the spar-stub on your wing to the carry-thru. How do we know when one of them is not carrying it's intended load? There are lots of places where we depend on reasonable care and workmanship to insure that a single point of failure isn't going to happen. I don't see any difference between multiple load paths in structure and multiple load paths in wires. Know what you're trying to accomplish and do it right. The most flack I've fielded on this notion was from folks worried about putting multiple strands of wire into a butt splice. In one case, I'm putting 7 strands of 22AWG into a butt splice. I showed them how to strip the ends of the bundle. Wrap a rubber band around the bundle very tight so as to prevent slippage of individual strands. Then, I pointed the ends of the strands at the observer and asked? I you had not just witnessed that these wires came from 7 strands of 22AWG, how would you know by looking at the end that it wasn't a single strand of, say a single 10AWG?" The answer was, of course, "no way I can know." "Okay, once we put these wires into a splice and put the gas-tight squash on it . . . and no strands were allowed to slip, what's the likelihood that any one strand isn't properly connected? Let's go a step further, tug on each of the 7 strands and see if you can pull them out without breaking the wire." After that, it was simply a matter of using the right tool to install D-sub pins on other ends and push them into a connector. Then I asked, "Has anyone ever seen a properly installed wire on a D-sub loaded to 4A or less cause failure in the mated pins?" "Nope" was the answer there too. Bottom line was that all the "what-if" concerns were washed away with knowledge of the task and the craftsmanship to do it. Hmmm . . . suppose we depend on the same skills to install wing and prop bolts? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Williams/SBW<sbw(at)sbw.org>
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Subject: Old-style knobs?
Does anyone have a source for knobs like these used on an old Century I autopilot? http://mira.sbw.org/CIGuts/pages/frontviewclose.htm Sorry I don't know the shaft diameter, but it's pretty standard. It uses an allen head set screw. I've looked through the Digikey catalog, and everything seems to have an index pointer of some sort, either a physical pointer or a painted line. We just need a plain knurled knob. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: New Article on Website
> >I used to think that splitting power connections was not good practice > >because if one line/connector fails you would not know about it until the > >remaining connectors started to overheat. Is this wrong? > > This has been the standard saw . . . but let's suppose you > have four bolts holding the spar-stub on your wing to the > carry-thru. How do we know when one of them is not carrying > it's intended load? > > Bottom line was that all the "what-if" concerns were > washed away with knowledge of the task and the craftsmanship > to do it. Hmmm . . . suppose we depend on the same skills > to install wing and prop bolts? > > Bob . . . Thanks for that response,Bob. Sounds like good clear thinking to me. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Old-style knobs?
> >Does anyone have a source for knobs like these used on an old Century I >autopilot? > > http://mira.sbw.org/CIGuts/pages/frontviewclose.htm > >Sorry I don't know the shaft diameter, but it's pretty standard. It uses >an allen head set screw. > >I've looked through the Digikey catalog, and everything seems to have an >index pointer of some sort, either a physical pointer or a painted line. We >just need a plain knurled knob. Are you wanting to imprint the top surface like the a/p knobs? There were few standards in these mechanisms. In order that a product meet government requirements for "conformity" even when it didn't matter, there was little value in seeking or using off-the-shelf products like knobs. Since you were better off making your own knobs, there was no driver to adhere to any conventions. A clever fellow with a lathe can make these for you. His knurling tool may not have the same pitch so you'd want him to make a complete set so that they match. You might also find some knobs that are close enough to be modified to fit. Can you get an o.d., length and shaft diameter? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Ray Cole <raycole(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Thermocouples
Does anyone have a good source for thermocouples and other temperature sensors? I've been inspired by Bob Nuckolls and Jim Weir to attempt my own temperature measurement system. It may not work but maybe I'll learn something in the process. Ray Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Williams/SBW<sbw(at)sbw.org>
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Subject: Re: Old-style knobs?
"Are you wanting to imprint the top surface like the a/p knobs?" Those are decals in the original. I figured we could make some up with a laser printer. "Can you get an o.d., length and shaft diameter?" I'll try to get that information. I'd much rather find something off the shelf, even if it isn't a perfect match, than to fabricate something. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Thermocouples
Date: Aug 05, 2001
For thermocouples and information on how to use them check out http://www.omega.com/ Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear 90% complete, 90% to go ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Cole" <raycole(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thermocouples > > Does anyone have a good source for thermocouples and other temperature > sensors? I've been inspired by Bob Nuckolls and Jim Weir to attempt my > own temperature measurement system. It may not work but maybe I'll learn > something in the process. > > Ray Cole > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com>
Subject: Re: Old-style knobs?
Date: Aug 05, 2001
> > Does anyone have a source for knobs like these used on an old Century I > autopilot? > *** Sure, You can buy them from Century. http://www.centuryflight.com. I think they're about $30 each. Once upon a time, I needed a nonstandard OBS knob - it had to stick out past a panel overlay on my Cessna 170. Making it was a piece of cake on my Sherline lathe. The "OBS" on the front was hard though. I opted to have it engraved. $40. I also had to buy a knurl for $60. Bingo, your basic $100 knob. Hindsight being 20/20, I might have chosen to laser print it mirror image onto a transparency, and then glue the transparency to the front of the knob ( which I would have faced off with an inset ). But it would have been a really bad mismatch for all the other knobs. Another problem with knobs is paint. Given what they go through, they should really be dull black anodized. More $$. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Thermocouples
>Does anyone have a good source for thermocouples and other temperature >sensors? >Ray Cole Ray; We buy temperature sensors for the machinery we build from a company called Pyromation Inc. Don't know if they have what you want but their web site is; http://www.pyromation.com/altindex.html Bob McC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: test
The Matronics website is back up. Congrats to Matt for his perseverance in the face of adversity. This is a test message to ping the list-server Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Date: Aug 28, 2001
Bob, My printed version (rev 9) appears to have an incomplete note 11 in appendix Z. The note ends with: "Otherwise, ". I checked the online version and found the same thing. Can you elaborate? I have a 40 amp ND alternator with internal regulator on my Aero Sport Power IO-320 and your OV module. I'm trying to determine if I should get your 4 terminal continuous duty contactor (S701-1) and wire it per Figure Z-14. This alternator came with a plug with a green and yellow pigtail. I'm not sure which is the F terminal or what the other one is for. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) wiring http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Daniel H Kight <kightd@basf-corp.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Chris, I also have an IO-320 from Aero Sport Power with the 40 amp ND alternator hanging proudly on the nose of my RV-6. I forget which color wire is the Field , but the other one is for a cockpit light to indicate an alternator failure. Look in the paperwork that came with your engine. There should be a piece of paper with a diagram of the plug on it that identifies each wire. I don't have the cockpit light wired on mine, since I have an engine monitor that alarms for low voltage. If you can't find the diagram, I will look it up for you tonight. Take care, Danny Kight Anderson, SC RV-6 N722DK (reserved) almost ready for paint C J Heitman on 08/28/2001 11:19:48 AM Please respond to aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z Bob, My printed version (rev 9) appears to have an incomplete note 11 in appendix Z. The note ends with: "Otherwise, ". I checked the online version and found the same thing. Can you elaborate? I have a 40 amp ND alternator with internal regulator on my Aero Sport Power IO-320 and your OV module. I'm trying to determine if I should get your 4 terminal continuous duty contactor (S701-1) and wire it per Figure Z-14. This alternator came with a plug with a green and yellow pigtail. I'm not sure which is the F terminal or what the other one is for. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) wiring http://www.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2001
From: Bob & Rita Falstad <RandBFalstad(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
Folks, I'm starting the panel for a GlaStar. I believe most GlaStar builders put the landing/taxi light in the cowl. I'd like to put the Duckworks (RV) landing/taxi lights in the leading edges. Does anyone know how I can contact the Duckworks guy? I need to know if the plexiglass can be re-heated and re-formed to match the contour of the GlaStar's leading edge. Maybe he's even got a kit that will fit a GlaStar. Also, we've closed our wings and I'm wondering if any GlaStar builders out there have strung any wire through the leading edge after the wing is done. Our flexible wiring conduit is full of wires for wingtip nav and strobe lights and wires for heated pitot tube. The panel will have a mix of incandescent lights (Westberg Mfg Co/Westach engine instruments) and the UMA electroluminescent light bezels (flight instruments). The avionics are a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm and GTX320 transponder with their own internal lighting. Any ideas how to hook up a dimmer circuit to keep the lighting intensity relatively constant among the different lighting types? Do I need to use separate dimming circuits? Thanks in advance. Bob (I apologize if a little of this is off topic.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2001
From: wx3o <wx3o(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
According to the listing on the RV Yeller Pages, Duckworks can be e-mailed at: jwentz@columbia-center.org Look at Gary VanMortel's RV Yeller Pages at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm Hope that helps. Best Regards, Mark Julicher Bob & Rita Falstad wrote: > > Folks, > > I'm starting the panel for a GlaStar. I believe most GlaStar builders put > the landing/taxi light in the cowl. I'd like to put the Duckworks (RV) > landing/taxi lights in the leading edges. Does anyone know how I can > contact the Duckworks guy? I need to know if the plexiglass can be > re-heated and re-formed to match the contour of the GlaStar's leading edge. > Maybe he's even got a kit that will fit a GlaStar. Also, we've closed our > wings and I'm wondering if any GlaStar builders out there have strung any > wire through the leading edge after the wing is done. Our flexible wiring > conduit is full of wires for wingtip nav and strobe lights and wires for > heated pitot tube. > > The panel will have a mix of incandescent lights (Westberg Mfg Co/Westach > engine instruments) and the UMA electroluminescent light bezels (flight > instruments). The avionics are a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm and GTX320 > transponder with their own internal lighting. Any ideas how to hook up a > dimmer circuit to keep the lighting intensity relatively constant among the > different lighting types? Do I need to use separate dimming circuits? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bob > > (I apologize if a little of this is off topic.) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
Date: Aug 28, 2001
Don can be reached at: DUCKWORKS (DON WENTZ) 503-543-2298 jwentz@columbia-center.org RV LANDING LIGHT KITS Ed Perry eperry(at)san.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob & Rita Falstad <RandBFalstad(at)compuserve.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:36 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar > > Folks, > > I'm starting the panel for a GlaStar. I believe most GlaStar builders put > the landing/taxi light in the cowl. I'd like to put the Duckworks (RV) > landing/taxi lights in the leading edges. Does anyone know how I can > contact the Duckworks guy? I need to know if the plexiglass can be > re-heated and re-formed to match the contour of the GlaStar's leading edge. > Maybe he's even got a kit that will fit a GlaStar. Also, we've closed our > wings and I'm wondering if any GlaStar builders out there have strung any > wire through the leading edge after the wing is done. Our flexible wiring > conduit is full of wires for wingtip nav and strobe lights and wires for > heated pitot tube. > > The panel will have a mix of incandescent lights (Westberg Mfg Co/Westach > engine instruments) and the UMA electroluminescent light bezels (flight > instruments). The avionics are a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm and GTX320 > transponder with their own internal lighting. Any ideas how to hook up a > dimmer circuit to keep the lighting intensity relatively constant among the > different lighting types? Do I need to use separate dimming circuits? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bob > > (I apologize if a little of this is off topic.) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
Date: Aug 29, 2001
Hi Bob; Save your money. Trace the profile of your wing onto paper & take it into a glass shop. They will make you lenses from plexi or lexan - cheap. Go to any auto shop and buy a set of cheap driving lights and a set of 100 watt bulbs as well as a couple of headlight adjuster screws & springs. Disassemble the light and discard everything but the reflector. Cut a hole in a square of aluminium the same size as the reflector to seat into it (lip of reflector larger than hole). Now fit alum sheet/reflector into wing with adjuster screws securing it. There is a few more details, but if can build a plane, you can probably figure it out. I ordered 2 lights with my RV-9 wing kit at $75usd each (almost $300 cdn after taxes & exchange) and almost shit when I seen what I got for that. When I installed them I was very disappointed with the aiming design, so I made my own. I then bought the 100w bulbs. So I ended up with a set of $300 dollar lenses & reflectors. Another local builder just built his own for $38. S. Todd Bartrim 13B RV-9 C-FSTB (reserved) Fuselage > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob & > Rita Falstad > Sent: August 28, 2001 6:37 PM > To: AeroElectric List > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for > GlaStar > > > > > Folks, > > I'm starting the panel for a GlaStar. I believe most GlaStar builders put > the landing/taxi light in the cowl. I'd like to put the Duckworks (RV) > landing/taxi lights in the leading edges. Does anyone know how I can > contact the Duckworks guy? I need to know if the plexiglass can be > re-heated and re-formed to match the contour of the GlaStar's > leading edge. > Maybe he's even got a kit that will fit a GlaStar. Also, we've > closed our > wings and I'm wondering if any GlaStar builders out there have strung any > wire through the leading edge after the wing is done. Our flexible wiring > conduit is full of wires for wingtip nav and strobe lights and wires for > heated pitot tube. > > The panel will have a mix of incandescent lights (Westberg Mfg Co/Westach > engine instruments) and the UMA electroluminescent light bezels (flight > instruments). The avionics are a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm and GTX320 > transponder with their own internal lighting. Any ideas how to hook up a > dimmer circuit to keep the lighting intensity relatively constant > among the > different lighting types? Do I need to use separate dimming circuits? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bob > > (I apologize if a little of this is off topic.) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Daniel H Kight <kightd@basf-corp.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2001
Subject: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
Bob, I can echo the advice from Mr. Bartrim. I built the landing lights for my RV-6 in a similar manner. J.C. Whitney offers plain round 3" reflectors that take an H-3 halogen bulb for about $3 each. I got 100 watt H-3 bulbs from them also, but at $7 each, it would be slightly cheaper to get them at the local auto parts store. The most intimidating part, forming the lenses, turned out to be a piece of cake. I used 1/16" lexan and heated it with my wife's 1600 watt hairdryer. It bends easily after you warm it up good. The mounting brackets for the reflectors are made from scrap sheet and angle aluminum. Total cost for both my landing lights was about $30. Good luck, Danny Kight Anderson, SC RV-6 Haywire on 08/29/2001 09:03:16 AM Please respond to aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar Hi Bob; Save your money. Trace the profile of your wing onto paper & take it into a glass shop. They will make you lenses from plexi or lexan - cheap. Go to any auto shop and buy a set of cheap driving lights and a set of 100 watt bulbs as well as a couple of headlight adjuster screws & springs. Disassemble the light and discard everything but the reflector. Cut a hole in a square of aluminium the same size as the reflector to seat into it (lip of reflector larger than hole). Now fit alum sheet/reflector into wing with adjuster screws securing it. There is a few more details, but if can build a plane, you can probably figure it out. I ordered 2 lights with my RV-9 wing kit at $75usd each (almost $300 cdn after taxes & exchange) and almost shit when I seen what I got for that. When I installed them I was very disappointed with the aiming design, so I made my own. I then bought the 100w bulbs. So I ended up with a set of $300 dollar lenses & reflectors. Another local builder just built his own for $38. S. Todd Bartrim 13B RV-9 C-FSTB (reserved) Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: re: Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
>The panel will have a mix of incandescent lights (Westberg Mfg Co/Westach >engine instruments) and the UMA electroluminescent light bezels (flight >instruments). The avionics are a Garmin GNC250XL GPS/Comm and GTX320 >transponder with their own internal lighting. Any ideas how to hook up a >dimmer circuit to keep the lighting intensity relatively constant among the >different lighting types? Do I need to use separate dimming circuits? > I may be so. I advise builders to "make room" for up to 4 separate dimmer potentiometers when they are building up a new panel. For the outset, install only one DIM14-15 dimmer and hook all instruments to the same dimmer. As you gain experience with how your system performs, you MAY want to add additional controls . . . some circuits are sufficiently low power to use the DIM14-5 dimmer. If there is room on the panel for more controls adjacent to the first one, any controls you add later will look like they belong there as opposed to be scattered all over the panel. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
> >Chris, > >I also have an IO-320 from Aero Sport Power with the 40 amp ND alternator >hanging proudly on the nose of my RV-6. I forget which color wire is the Field >, but the other one is for a cockpit light to indicate an alternator failure. >Look in the paperwork that came with your engine. There should be a piece of >paper with a diagram of the plug on it that identifies each wire. I don't have >the cockpit light wired on mine, since I have an engine monitor that alarms for >low voltage. If you can't find the diagram, I will look it up for you tonight. > >Take care, > >Danny Kight >Anderson, SC >RV-6 N722DK (reserved) >almost ready for paint > > >C J Heitman on 08/28/2001 11:19:48 AM > >Please respond to aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >To: aeroelectric-list cc: >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z > > >Bob, > >My printed version (rev 9) appears to have an incomplete note 11 in appendix >Z. The note ends with: "Otherwise, ". I checked the online version and >found the same thing. Can you elaborate? That was the result of a last minute plan to add ov protection data for internally regulated alternators to the book . . . but it fell in a crack. The drawing that will be added to Rev 10 of the book can be had at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf >I have a 40 amp ND alternator with internal regulator on my Aero Sport Power >IO-320 and your OV module. I'm trying to determine if I should get your 4 >terminal continuous duty contactor (S701-1) and wire it per Figure Z-14. >This alternator came with a plug with a green and yellow pigtail. I'm not >sure which is the F terminal or what the other one is for. One lead is for control of the alternator (it does not directly supply field power . . hence cannot be depended on for ov control). The other will be for the automotive version of an alternator failure warning lite. Recommend you ignore this lead and have some form of ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE that flashes a light when the bus drops below 13.0 volts. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- < Hell, there are no rules here-- we're > < trying to accomplish something. > < Thomas A. Edison > ----------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)tenforward.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Date: Aug 29, 2001
Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only apparent solution. Again this is the ONLY list server that has EVER caused me problems with.pdf files. (Running acrobat v5). Also going to the main web site and trying to drop down to the subject page results in "page not available". In the past others have also noted problems of this kind. I respectfully request that www.aeroelectric.com have usable links to the referenced files as I have never had a problem using that route to .pdf files. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z That was the result of a last minute plan to add ov protection data for internally regulated alternators to the book . . . but it fell in a crack. The drawing that will be added to Rev 10 of the book can be had at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Date: Aug 29, 2001
I couldn't get that one to work either. Terry > Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never > completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed > completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only > apparent solution. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Info for diagnostic purposes: It works fine (very fast) with my set-up - Macintosh OS-9 and Acrobat reader 4.0. Bill > >I couldn't get that one to work either. > >Terry > >> Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never >> completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed >> completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only > > apparent solution. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Works perfectly on my computer also using Acrobat 5 Bob McC Paul Messinger wrote: > > Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never > completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed > completely). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronnie Brown" <rolandbrown(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Date: Aug 29, 2001
I was able to open it by downloading (right click and save as) to my hard drive. Then open it locally with Acrobat 5.0. There is a splash screen that Acrobat opens asking if you want to check their internet site for updates. Unfortunately, the locked up screen won't allow you to see the splash screen (try pressing Alt+Tab to get to the splash screen). If you can get to this splash screen and uncheck the option, then it stops hanging the Acrobat screen up. I guess you get what you pay for when you get stuff free. (;>( ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
Paul, I don't have the problem that you're having but I would like to see if I can help somehow. Did you see the message that suggested something about checking for updates on Acrobat Reader as a splash screen? Once in a while when I select a .pdf for viewing, after waiting for what seems to be long enough, downloading appears to be complete but the screen is blank. I just click (in Netscape) reload and the .PDF immediately displays. Odd behavior. Would you like me to just e-mail that .PDF to see if you have a problem with it when you load it directly into Acrobat Reader rather than loading it into the Acrobat Reader plugin? I wonder if this is one of the .pdf's that Bob created with version 4 of the Acrobat Writer? Heck, I'll take a gamble and just attach it to this e-mail. At 11:11 AM 8/29/2001Paul Messinger sez: > > >Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never >completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed >completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only >apparent solution. > >Again this is the ONLY list server that has EVER caused me problems with.pdf >files. (Running acrobat v5). Also going to the main web site and trying to >drop down to the subject page results in "page not available". > >In the past others have also noted problems of this kind. > >I respectfully request that www.aeroelectric.com have usable links to the >referenced files as I have never had a problem using that route to .pdf >files. > >Paul > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert >L. Nuckolls, III >Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:27 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z > That was the result of a last minute plan to add > ov protection data for internally regulated alternators > to the book . . . but it fell in a crack. The drawing that > will be added to Rev 10 of the book can be had at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf > > ** L I N U X ** .~. Paul A. Franz, P.E. Engineering Software The Choice /V\ Blackdog Software Network Consulting and Sales of the GNU /( )\ <http://blackdog.bellevue.wa.us/> Custom Web Services Generation - (425) 641-8202, (425) 641-1773 FAX Internet FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2001
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Note 11, Appendix Z
At 11:11 AM 8/29/2001Paul Messinger sez: >Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never >completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed >completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only >apparent solution. Seems to work fine for me. I am using Acrobat Reader 5.0.1 dated 3/27/2001. I also tried it with version 4.0 and that was fine too. I wonder if you have the latest version installed but the plugin for that version only installed in the browser you're not using. Maybe it got installed in Netscape and you use IE or vice versa. That would be more difficult to detect since you don't find that in help, about like the main application. ** L I N U X ** .~. Paul A. Franz, P.E. Engineering Software The Choice /V\ Blackdog Software Network Consulting and Sales of the GNU /( )\ <http://blackdog.bellevue.wa.us/> Custom Web Services Generation - (425) 641-8202, (425) 641-1773 FAX Internet FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KahnSG(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Subject: AT-150 pinout
Can anyone tell me the function of two terminals on a Narco AT-150 transponder? One is term. 3 the "common". The other is term. 5 the "enable'. Also, Bob, do you sell a crimper of HD-22 terminals? The ones used in hi density D-subs. Thanks, Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AT-150 pinout
> >Can anyone tell me the function of two terminals on a Narco AT-150 >transponder? >One is term. 3 the "common". >The other is term. 5 the "enable'. >Also, Bob, do you sell a crimper of HD-22 terminals? The ones used in hi >density D-subs. > >Thanks, >Steve Take a peek at this page: http://www.russellw.com/manuals/narco_at150/2electrical.htm Terminal 3 in this drawing is definitely one of two power grounds for the transponder/encoder-digitizer system. Pin 5 is a signal common for the digitizer. Pins 15 and 1 are normally ignored these days . . . you only hook them up if you have DME (Dinosaur Measuring Estimator) . . . I've used the tool we sell for 20AWG pins to also install the 22AWG HD pins. You may find that the crimp is a tad too close to the end of the wire grip barrel . . . you can pull the pin out a few thousandths of an inch before closing the handles. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- < Hell, there are no rules here-- we're > < trying to accomplish something. > < Thomas A. Edison > ----------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: .pdf woes . . .
> >Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never >completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed >completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only >apparent solution. > >Again this is the ONLY list server that has EVER caused me problems with.pdf >files. (Running acrobat v5). Also going to the main web site and trying to >drop down to the subject page results in "page not available". > >In the past others have also noted problems of this kind. > >I respectfully request that www.aeroelectric.com have usable links to the >referenced files as I have never had a problem using that route to .pdf >files. > >Paul I'm mystified as to why this is happening. I just checked the logs on my website and there have been between 80 and 100 thousand downloads of .pdf files from my site over the past year or so. I've received perhaps a dozen notes from folks having problems and MOST of those were accommodated the .pdf using the latest version of Reader. I believe the last time this discussion came up, I was able to "fix" a few problems (even some problems exhibited a later version of Acrobat . . . However, given that my website has about 80 .pdf files . . . some of which no longer enjoy availability of original documents . . . the task to re-compile all of them promises to be a 15-20 hour effort. I really wish I had the magic wand to wave and make everybody's problems go away but I know just enough about these applications to make reasonable use of them. Given how far behind I am on other tasks, it doesn't make much sense for me to spend a lot of time flogging it. I will do this. If anyone is having intractable problems with Adobe files downloaded from our website, I'll be glad to mail a gratis CD rom of the website materials along with a bunch of other goodies. Just let me know. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AC 43.13
n.com> > >I have read ( and enjoyed) most of your articles on the web. The articles >have been a great help with many things. >A question about FAA AC 43.13. In the wiring section the publication >instructs that all wires be identified and goes on to specify where and how >often. If I do not comply when wiring my radios, is there a problem? > >Curtis The only government documents that apply to amateur built aircraft are parts 61 and 91. All others are offered as reference texts for ideas on how to do SOME things . . . The electrical section of AC43.13 is pretty sad . . . I'd like to do an AeroElectric version of that document to weed out all the BS. If you mark ANY wires, do it for your convenience only. If you want to wire the whole airplane with white, un-marked wire, you're certainly free to do it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: OV protection for built-in regulator
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Bob Nuckolls wrote: >>"The drawing that will be added to Rev 10 of the book can be had at: >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf " Bob, Thanks for the link. The above schematic shows an 80 amp fuse between the two contactors. My contactors will be next to each other on the firewall and I am assuming that a short (<6") lead won't need protection. If I use 6AWG wire for the approx. 3 foot lead from the OV contactor to the B terminal of my 40amp alternator, can I use a 10AWG fusible link at the contactor end instead of a large 80 amp fuse? It would be separated from other wires and protected with sleeving or heatshrink tubing. Chris Heitman RV-9A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)tenforward.com>
Subject: RE: .pdf woes . . .
Date: Aug 30, 2001
I do not think its a problem with your files. I believe its a seldom seen compatibility betweeen MS SW and your server SW. This time a couple of reports of problems. The .pdf file its self has never been the problem; its a strange case of the handshake failing during downloading. When the file is sent an an attachment its just fine. Not worth the effort as last time lots of time was spent and no solution was really found. Usually someone else on the list simply attached it and sends it to me and the others having problems. However as the latest version of MS SW no longer supports some plug ins and netscape sites, the problems are likely to increase on the internet. I have already run into MS only web sites where netscape will not work at all. Thanks again for all you are doing for safer electrical systems. BTW: I have run into a couple of cases where certified aircraft have had NO engine Case to fush ground strap. In one case this causes the ammeter to cycle with the pulsing beacon light. The owner said this was normal :-). The other case resulted in the throttle cable carrying starter current and welding its self to a fixed position. Fortunately in idle position. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:57 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: .pdf woes . . . > >Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never >completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed >completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only >apparent solution. > >Again this is the ONLY list server that has EVER caused me problems with.pdf >files. (Running acrobat v5). Also going to the main web site and trying to >drop down to the subject page results in "page not available". > >In the past others have also noted problems of this kind. > >I respectfully request that www.aeroelectric.com have usable links to the >referenced files as I have never had a problem using that route to .pdf >files. > >Paul I'm mystified as to why this is happening. I just checked the logs on my website and there have been between 80 and 100 thousand downloads of .pdf files from my site over the past year or so. I've received perhaps a dozen notes from folks having problems and MOST of those were accommodated the .pdf using the latest version of Reader. I believe the last time this discussion came up, I was able to "fix" a few problems (even some problems exhibited a later version of Acrobat . . . However, given that my website has about 80 .pdf files . . . some of which no longer enjoy availability of original documents . . . the task to re-compile all of them promises to be a 15-20 hour effort. I really wish I had the magic wand to wave and make everybody's problems go away but I know just enough about these applications to make reasonable use of them. Given how far behind I am on other tasks, it doesn't make much sense for me to spend a lot of time flogging it. I will do this. If anyone is having intractable problems with Adobe files downloaded from our website, I'll be glad to mail a gratis CD rom of the website materials along with a bunch of other goodies. Just let me know. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel Brodsky" <brodsky(at)li.net>
Subject: Re: RE: .pdf woes . . .
Date: Aug 30, 2001
The site may be set up with a timeout on how long a page takes to display. This will cause a truncate of the file if the person is using a slow connection or the document is too large. A web download is not a guarantee of successful file transfer. All that is happening is the web server is attempting to pass the string to the browser (the string is the pdf file). There is no guarantee of success. -Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: .pdf woes . . . > > > > >Well the same old problem I had months ago came back. The .pdf file never > >completes proper downloading and cannot be saved or printed (or viewed > >completely). It also hangs up acrobat and forced shutdown is the only > >apparent solution. > > > >Again this is the ONLY list server that has EVER caused me problems with.pdf > >files. (Running acrobat v5). Also going to the main web site and trying to > >drop down to the subject page results in "page not available". > > > >In the past others have also noted problems of this kind. > > > >I respectfully request that www.aeroelectric.com have usable links to the > >referenced files as I have never had a problem using that route to .pdf > >files. > > > >Paul > > I'm mystified as to why this is happening. I just checked > the logs on my website and there have been between 80 and > 100 thousand downloads of .pdf files from my site over the > past year or so. I've received perhaps a dozen notes from > folks having problems and MOST of those were accommodated > the .pdf using the latest version of Reader. > > I believe the last time this discussion came up, I was > able to "fix" a few problems (even some problems exhibited > a later version of Acrobat . . . However, given that my > website has about 80 .pdf files . . . some of which no longer > enjoy availability of original documents . . . the task > to re-compile all of them promises to be a 15-20 hour > effort. > > I really wish I had the magic wand to wave and make everybody's > problems go away but I know just enough about these applications > to make reasonable use of them. Given how far behind I am > on other tasks, it doesn't make much sense for me to spend > a lot of time flogging it. > > I will do this. If anyone is having intractable problems > with Adobe files downloaded from our website, I'll be glad > to mail a gratis CD rom of the website materials along with > a bunch of other goodies. Just let me know. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: System Voltage (auto)
Listers, I was going to put this on before the list went down and spaced it. (just so happy not to have the withdrawal shakes any more) According to several of the automotive trade journals the O.E.M.'s are proceeding with the advancement and implementation of a 42 volt electrical system.( some as soon as 2003 models) This is due in part to the fact that equipment and component requirements on today's cars have "maxed out" the capacity of the current 12 Volt systems. With new federal mileage requirements just around the corner and with very stiff penalties for non-compliance, the auto makers are looking at weight reduction and engine horsepower conservation. The new "standardized" 42 Volt systems will allow wiring size to be greatly reduced (reducing weight and component size) as well as allowing for electrically driven power steering, air conditioning, water pumps, etc., and a more stabilized and expanded management system.(horse power conservation) With builders always concerned with the weight factor of components, this may be a God send. Some proto-types of the "new style" alternator are the size of a coffee cup and produce gobs of amps and weight half that of a ND. Batteries, starters, alternators all sound like they will be reduced to about half the size and weight of current 12 volt counterparts and have twice the potential. Just something to think about. Jim D. N708JD RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: OV protection for built-in regulator
> >Bob Nuckolls wrote: >>>"The drawing that will be added to Rev 10 of the book can be had at: >>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf " > >Bob, >Thanks for the link. The above schematic shows an 80 amp fuse between the >two contactors. My contactors will be next to each other on the firewall and >I am assuming that a short (<6") lead won't need protection. If I use 6AWG >wire for the approx. 3 foot lead from the OV contactor to the B terminal of >my 40amp alternator, can I use a 10AWG fusible link at the contactor end >instead of a large 80 amp fuse? It would be separated from other wires and >protected with sleeving or heatshrink tubing. It's not between the two contactors . . . it's in series with the alternator output. This fuse is in lieu of the fat breaker normally found on the panel of most SE Aircraft . . . the poorest place in the airplane to tie the nosiest device in the airplane. This is too fat a feeder for fusible link technology. Please use the fuse. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: You're building the best to have ever flown . . .
> >Thanks again for all you are doing for safer electrical systems. Thank you Paul . . . My pleasure. >BTW: I have run into a couple of cases where certified aircraft have had NO >engine Case to fush ground strap. In one case this causes the ammeter to >cycle with the pulsing beacon light. The owner said this was normal :-). > >The other case resulted in the throttle cable carrying starter current and >welding its self to a fixed position. Fortunately in idle position. Just got a call this morning from a fellow who was on second flight of his LAIV, got a curl of smoke from behind the panel, popped the alternator field breaker, popped the alternator main breaker. Made a safe landing 100 miles from home base. Test pilot went home (1600 miles away) . . . now he wants to band-aid the system sufficiently to allow the test pilot to come back and check him out in the airplane. Now I need to decide how deeply I want to get involved in helping resurrect this aircraft . . . it could easily evolve into a lose-lose situation. It would have been SOOOOooooooo easy to do it right the first time. Keep up the good work folks! The future of little airplanes as we've come to know them is in OUR hands . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RE: .pdf woes . . .
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Good answer, Dan. I have a very slow connection and have been having troubles with that one file. I upgraded to Adobe 5.0 and that didn't change anything. I downloaded Bob's Appendix Z as a test, but I always get timed out before I can print the last few pages. At this point, I think that's probably my problem. We will see if it is solved when they hook my cable modem up, hopefully yet this week. Thanks. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Brodsky" <brodsky(at)li.net> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: .pdf woes . . . > > The site may be set up with a timeout on how long a page takes to display. > This will cause a truncate of the file if the person is using a slow > connection or the document is too large. > > A web download is not a guarantee of successful file transfer. All that is > happening is the web server is attempting to pass the string to the browser > (the string is the pdf file). There is no guarantee of success. > > -Dan > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Subject: Re: OV protection for built-in regulator
From: Joel Harding <dsl10driver(at)ev1.net>
> It's not between the two contactors . . . it's in series > with the alternator output. This fuse is in lieu of > the fat breaker normally found on the panel of most > SE Aircraft . . . the poorest place in the airplane to > tie the nosiest device in the airplane. > > This is too fat a feeder for fusible link technology. > Please use the fuse. > > Bob, In place of the 80 amp fuse, B & C recommended a C905-40 current limiter with # 8 AWG wire between the alternator and the starter contactor. Do you think this is an equally good solution? Joel Harding ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew Seefried" <seefried(at)oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Re: Landing/Taxi Light & Dimming Circuit for GlaStar
Date: Aug 30, 2001
To R Falstad, Have you seen the Glastar drop in molded panel blank from Aerotronics.com ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: System Voltage (auto)
>Listers, >I was going to put this on before the list went down and spaced it. >(just so happy not to have the withdrawal shakes any more) >According to several of the automotive trade journals the O.E.M.'s are >proceeding with the advancement and implementation of a 42 volt >electrical system.( some as soon as 2003 models) This is due in part to >the fact that equipment and component requirements on today's cars have >"maxed out" the capacity of the current 12 Volt systems. Yes. Maxed out for ENERGY that can be generated and transferred from the prime mover (engine driven alternator) to some place where the energy is needed. And, it is true that in some cases, the ceiling can be lifted by raising the system voltage. For example, you can run a B&C L-40 or L-60 alternator in either a 14 or 28 volt system. The later requires a special regulator to limit field voltage to 15 volts - HOWEVER, the minimum speed for regulation and minimum speeds for full output go up. Not a problem on Lycoming installations 'cause we got that nice fat ring gear pulley and a relatively small alternator pulley. An L-60 alternator with the special regulator puts out twice the voltage at the same current for a 2x increase in energy and no increase in weight . . . more efficient? No, for each watt coming out, you gotta have a corresponding quantity of h.p. going in . . . all we gained here was a weight savings. Now, all things constant except for voltage, batteries come in so many watt-hours per pound of stuff . . . in most cases the "stuff" is lead, acid and water. Your 24v battery may have smaller CELLS but you need twice as many. All things being equal, to carry around the same number of watt-hours, you're going to have about the same weight of battery. Starter motors tend to come in h.p. per pound . . . unless you drastically change the technology. It's true that highly geared, brushless d.c. motors could make one hell-of-a starter motor with a lot less weight . . . but in the low volumes needed for an aircraft market, not too many folk would want to spend $1,000 for a starter just to save 3-4 pounds. Yes, wire weight does go down . . . and in a B-52 which had 500+ miles of wire in it, the difference in wire weights to utilize 28V vs. 14V is substantial . . . hundreds of pounds no doubt. But suppose the weight of wire in your airplane goes to ZERO . . . how many pounds are you going to save? I've not pulled all the wire out of a small airplane to weigh it . . . but I'll bet an RV-6 wires up with less than 5 pounds of wire. >With new federal mileage requirements just around the corner and with >very stiff penalties for non-compliance, the auto makers are looking at >weight reduction and engine horsepower conservation. The new >"standardized" 42 Volt systems will allow wiring size to be greatly >reduced (reducing weight and component size) Weight and size may go down a little with high volume brushless designs . . . but the only way they'll make production and marketing sense is when the components are manufactured in the millions per year . . . not unusual numbers for cars. >as well as allowing for >electrically driven power steering, air conditioning, water pumps, etc., >and a more stabilized and expanded management system.(horse power >conservation) Here's where the automotive guys hit the energy ceiling for electrical systems. Their requirements for piping watts around the vehicle on wires is going UP . . . our requirements have been going steadily down with plenty of opportunities out there for further improvements yet. For example. When we replace a 10# sucker system with a 4# alternator on the vacuum pump drive pad, we drive down parts count, installation costs, and costs of ownership and get a 7# weight savings to boot. If you have two engine driven power sources, the need to size a battery for extended alternator-out-operations goes away . . . there are 2-pound batteries out there capable of cranking an engine. Gee, were down another 13 pounds for a total of 20. The 42-volt system is just three times the present 14-volt system. If a 2X, 28-volt system doesn't make any sense for our market, what compelling argument is there for a 3X system? Maybe . . . some years down the road . . . and after millions of the products have already been on the road, we might find reason to consider an integrated pump/compressor assembly for an automotive air-conditioner attractive for a relatively small airplane . . . but would the availability of a compact air-conditioner component offset all the expense of converting to 42-v for the rest of the system? >With builders always concerned with the weight factor of components, >this may be a God send. Some proto-types of the "new style" alternator >are the size of a coffee cup and produce gobs of amps and weight half >that of a ND. Batteries, starters, alternators all sound like they will >be reduced to about half the size and weight of current 12 volt >counterparts and have twice the potential. >Just something to think about. Without a doubt, advances in automotive technologies have always run far out in front of anything that government has seen fit to bless for little airplanes. I expect to see some truly amazing things coming out of Detroit over the next ten years . . . and indeed, once the technology matures (nothing like 10-30 millions cars on the road to drive maturity), we may see some applicable fallout. However, the benefits to automobiles will far outweigh any benefits to airplanes. Over-all system energy requirements and efficiencies of our machines are pushing the limits of pistons that jump up and down in their holes to drive big air thrashers on the front that pushes an aerodynamic shape that isn't going to get a whole lot better. Right now, we can cut about 20# off the contemporary electrical system. The lightweight starter may go down to 5 pounds. The alternator may go down to 4 pounds for an additional 5-6 pounds over what we can do right now. The biggest thing in our favor is that we're figuring out how to do the job with less electrical watts while the acknowledged goal of the car guys is to "live cleaner (and simpler) with electricity" . . . their requirements are going up. It may be that the smallest alternator you can pull off a 2010 Ford puts out 3000 watts . . . small for it's output but perhaps bigger than the 500W alternator we have today that already puts out more energy than we use. If you're looking forward to air conditioning in your RV . . . there may be some exciting things coming over the hill. In the mean time, there's still a lot we can do with the technology that's already off-the-shelf. Time will tell . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: .pdf woes . . .
> >Good answer, Dan. I have a very slow connection and have been having >troubles with that one file. I upgraded to Adobe 5.0 and that didn't change >anything. I downloaded Bob's Appendix Z as a test, but I always get timed >out before I can print the last few pages. At this point, I think that's >probably my problem. We will see if it is solved when they hook my cable >modem up, hopefully yet this week. > >Thanks. > >Terry Terry, try downloading to hard drive and THEN opening the file with Adobe Reader. This technique has made a substantial difference with most folks problems surrounding .pdf files. Right-click the link and give it a pathway. Wait until the download is complete before you open Reader to view it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: OV protection for built-in regulator
> > >> It's not between the two contactors . . . it's in series >> with the alternator output. This fuse is in lieu of >> the fat breaker normally found on the panel of most >> SE Aircraft . . . the poorest place in the airplane to >> tie the nosiest device in the airplane. >> >> This is too fat a feeder for fusible link technology. >> Please use the fuse. >> >> > > >Bob, >In place of the 80 amp fuse, B & C recommended a C905-40 current limiter >with # 8 AWG wire between the alternator and the starter contactor. Do you >think this is an equally good solution? > >Joel Harding Don't know what this is. I'm going up to B&C in the morning. I'll find out what they're recommending and the rational for the substitution. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RE: .pdf woes . . .
Date: Aug 30, 2001
> Terry, try downloading to hard drive and THEN opening > the file with Adobe Reader. This technique has made > a substantial difference with most folks problems > surrounding .pdf files. > > Right-click the link and give it a pathway. Wait until > the download is complete before you open Reader to > view it. > > Bob . . . That worked. Thanks Bob. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: System Voltage (auto)
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Although the homebuilders are decreasing their requirements for watts, spam cans continue to do what they always have, add more goodies, add more weight, and more watts required. The benefits of 42V may be more attractive to the certified folks. I know of work being done as we speak to STC a 140A, 28V alternator on a Cessna 206 to run air conditioning and other goodies. David Swartzendruber Wichita Waiting for the RV-10 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: System Voltage (auto) > > > >Listers, > >I was going to put this on before the list went down and spaced it. > >(just so happy not to have the withdrawal shakes any more) > >According to several of the automotive trade journals the O.E.M.'s are > >proceeding with the advancement and implementation of a 42 volt > >electrical system.( some as soon as 2003 models) This is due in part to > >the fact that equipment and component requirements on today's cars have > >"maxed out" the capacity of the current 12 Volt systems. > > Yes. Maxed out for ENERGY that can be generated and transferred > from the prime mover (engine driven alternator) to some place > where the energy is needed. And, it is true that in some cases, > the ceiling can be lifted by raising the system voltage. For example, > you can run a B&C L-40 or L-60 alternator in either a 14 or 28 > volt system. The later requires a special regulator to limit > field voltage to 15 volts - HOWEVER, the minimum speed for regulation > and minimum speeds for full output go up. Not a problem on Lycoming > installations 'cause we got that nice fat ring gear pulley and > a relatively small alternator pulley. > > An L-60 alternator with the special regulator puts out twice > the voltage at the same current for a 2x increase in energy > and no increase in weight . . . more efficient? No, for each > watt coming out, you gotta have a corresponding quantity of > h.p. going in . . . all we gained here was a weight savings. > > Now, all things constant except for voltage, batteries > come in so many watt-hours per pound of stuff . . . in > most cases the "stuff" is lead, acid and water. Your 24v > battery may have smaller CELLS but you need twice as many. > All things being equal, to carry around the same number of > watt-hours, you're going to have about the same weight of > battery. > > Starter motors tend to come in h.p. per pound . . . unless > you drastically change the technology. It's true that highly > geared, brushless d.c. motors could make one hell-of-a starter > motor with a lot less weight . . . but in the low volumes > needed for an aircraft market, not too many folk would want > to spend $1,000 for a starter just to save 3-4 pounds. > > Yes, wire weight does go down . . . and in a B-52 which had > 500+ miles of wire in it, the difference in wire weights > to utilize 28V vs. 14V is substantial . . . hundreds of > pounds no doubt. But suppose the weight of wire in your > airplane goes to ZERO . . . how many pounds are you going > to save? I've not pulled all the wire out of a small airplane > to weigh it . . . but I'll bet an RV-6 wires up with less than > 5 pounds of wire. > > > >With new federal mileage requirements just around the corner and with > >very stiff penalties for non-compliance, the auto makers are looking at > >weight reduction and engine horsepower conservation. The new > >"standardized" 42 Volt systems will allow wiring size to be greatly > >reduced (reducing weight and component size) > > Weight and size may go down a little with high volume brushless > designs . . . but the only way they'll make production and > marketing sense is when the components are manufactured in > the millions per year . . . not unusual numbers for cars. > > > >as well as allowing for > >electrically driven power steering, air conditioning, water pumps, etc., > >and a more stabilized and expanded management system.(horse power > >conservation) > > Here's where the automotive guys hit the energy ceiling for > electrical systems. Their requirements for piping watts > around the vehicle on wires is going UP . . . our requirements > have been going steadily down with plenty of opportunities out > there for further improvements yet. > > For example. When we replace a 10# sucker system with a 4# > alternator on the vacuum pump drive pad, we drive down parts > count, installation costs, and costs of ownership and get a > 7# weight savings to boot. If you have two engine driven > power sources, the need to size a battery for extended > alternator-out-operations goes away . . . there are 2-pound > batteries out there capable of cranking an engine. Gee, > were down another 13 pounds for a total of 20. > > The 42-volt system is just three times the present 14-volt > system. If a 2X, 28-volt system doesn't make any sense for > our market, what compelling argument is there for a 3X > system? > > Maybe . . . some years down the road . . . and after millions > of the products have already been on the road, we might > find reason to consider an integrated pump/compressor > assembly for an automotive air-conditioner attractive > for a relatively small airplane . . . but would the > availability of a compact air-conditioner component offset > all the expense of converting to 42-v for the rest of > the system? > > >With builders always concerned with the weight factor of components, > >this may be a God send. Some proto-types of the "new style" alternator > >are the size of a coffee cup and produce gobs of amps and weight half > >that of a ND. Batteries, starters, alternators all sound like they will > >be reduced to about half the size and weight of current 12 volt > >counterparts and have twice the potential. > >Just something to think about. > > Without a doubt, advances in automotive technologies > have always run far out in front of anything that government > has seen fit to bless for little airplanes. I expect to > see some truly amazing things coming out of Detroit over > the next ten years . . . and indeed, once the technology > matures (nothing like 10-30 millions cars on the road to > drive maturity), we may see some applicable fallout. > > However, the benefits to automobiles will far outweigh > any benefits to airplanes. Over-all system energy requirements > and efficiencies of our machines are pushing the limits > of pistons that jump up and down in their holes to drive > big air thrashers on the front that pushes an aerodynamic > shape that isn't going to get a whole lot better. > > Right now, we can cut about 20# off the contemporary > electrical system. The lightweight starter may go down to > 5 pounds. The alternator may go down to 4 pounds for > an additional 5-6 pounds over what we can do right now. > > The biggest thing in our favor is that we're figuring > out how to do the job with less electrical watts while > the acknowledged goal of the car guys is to "live cleaner > (and simpler) with electricity" . . . their requirements > are going up. It may be that the smallest alternator you > can pull off a 2010 Ford puts out 3000 watts . . . small > for it's output but perhaps bigger than the 500W alternator > we have today that already puts out more energy than we use. > > If you're looking forward to air conditioning in your > RV . . . there may be some exciting things coming over > the hill. In the mean time, there's still a lot we can > do with the technology that's already off-the-shelf. > > Time will tell . . . > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Switches for duel alternators
Date: Aug 30, 2001
Bob, I have an all electric 6A with a LD-40 and SD-8. Would there be any benefit to wiring the switch that puts the SD-8 on line so that the LD-40 is cut off at the same time so that they can not be both sending juice to the essential bus at the same time? If so, how is this wired and what switches would you use? Also, do you recommend putting a cover over the switch that turns on the SD-8 and the switch that turns on "battery only" essential bus power? Or, perhaops using one of those switches that have to be pulled on to be turned on? Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Switches for duel alternators
> >Bob, > >I have an all electric 6A with a LD-40 and SD-8. Would there be any benefit >to wiring the switch that puts the SD-8 on line so that the LD-40 is cut off >at the same time so that they can not be both sending juice to the essential >bus at the same time? If so, how is this wired and what switches would you >use? No, there is no harm to having both alternators on line at the same time. "Interlocking" is more complex and offers single points of failure for both alternators. >Also, do you recommend putting a cover over the switch that turns on the >SD-8 and the switch that turns on "battery only" essential bus power? Or, >perhaops using one of those switches that have to be pulled on to be turned >on? The All Electric Airplane on a Budget concept has been pretty well thrashed with respect to failure modes. If you can find a way to increase reliability by taking some things OUT (reduced parts count) or if you perceive a failure mode that needs the attention of redesign, let's talk about it. For the moment, there are no changes I can recommend. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Alternative B-lead fuse . . .
>> >> >>Bob, >>In place of the 80 amp fuse, B & C recommended a C905-40 current limiter >>with # 8 AWG wire between the alternator and the starter contactor. Do you >>think this is an equally good solution? >> >>Joel Harding > > > Don't know what this is. I'm going up to B&C > in the morning. I'll find out what they're recommending > and the rational for the substitution. Just got off the phone with folks at B&C . . . they're now stocking the ANL series current limiters (a cross between a fat fuse and fusible link) for another program. Their p/n for the 40A limiter is C905-40. I agree with them that this is a good substitute for the in-line fuse we've been selling for some years. We've agreed to change the offering in B&C catalog on my website. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2001
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative B-lead fuse . . .
I'm obviously missing something, here. But is a 40A current limiter equal to an 80A fuse? Boyd RV-Super 6 314 hrs "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>Bob, > >>In place of the 80 amp fuse, B & C recommended a C905-40 current limiter > >>with # 8 AWG wire between the alternator and the starter contactor. Do you > >>think this is an equally good solution? > >> > >>Joel Harding > > > > > > Don't know what this is. I'm going up to B&C > > in the morning. I'll find out what they're recommending > > and the rational for the substitution. > > Just got off the phone with folks at B&C . . . they're now > stocking the ANL series current limiters (a cross between > a fat fuse and fusible link) for another program. Their > p/n for the 40A limiter is C905-40. I agree with them > that this is a good substitute for the in-line fuse > we've been selling for some years. We've agreed to change > the offering in B&C catalog on my website. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternator Hook Up
Date: Sep 01, 2001
(Posting for a friend and AeroElectric Connection Subscriber) Questions relate to connecting a Mitsubishi alternator to voltage regulator (Van's) The connection (four prong) on back of Mazda alternator (from ancient Ford Courier) is labeled: E N A & F. The plug (removed from the vehicle) has no wire at "A", a black wire with yellow tracer at "N", a white wire with black tracer at "F", a plain white wire at "E". "F" it seems reasonable to assume, connects the field to the regulator. There is a post with screw next to the plug which appears to be a ground, and is connected internally to "E" and also "F" (both show 5 ohms resistance). 1. Is "F" the field wire? 2. Should either of the other wires be connected anywhere? The voltage regulator is connected by a shielded wire from alternator switch in cockpit, and a second wire to the alternator field (at "F"). Thanks Dick Sipp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: flux cleanup
Date: Sep 02, 2001
Bob, Along with my VM-1000, came a small jar of Nokorode regular paste flux. This is specified for use with the solder joints on the d-sub plug containing the inputs from the EGT & CHT thermocouples. Vision Microsystems specifies that the pins and crimping tools be washed with water after soldering. Zink chloride is mentioned on the label. Now that I know that this stuff is "not for electronics use" as specified on the label, how should I clean, or treat my kit audio panel on which I used some of this? (I have a supply of your favorite $.88 disc brake cleaner.) Thanks, Tom Barnes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: flux cleanup
Date: Sep 02, 2001
Lacquer thinner works great. Use a tooth brush and compressed air. That's what Ron from Rocky Mountain recommends. Paul Besing RV-6A N197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Flying Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: flux cleanup > > Bob, > > Along with my VM-1000, came a small jar of Nokorode regular paste flux. > This is specified for use with the solder joints on the d-sub plug > containing the inputs from the EGT & CHT thermocouples. Vision Microsystems > specifies that the pins and crimping tools be washed with water after > soldering. Zink chloride is mentioned on the label. > > Now that I know that this stuff is "not for electronics use" as specified on > the label, how should I clean, or treat my kit audio panel on which I used > some of this? (I have a supply of your favorite $.88 disc brake cleaner.) > > Thanks, > Tom Barnes > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative B-lead fuse . . .
> >I'm obviously missing something, here. But is a 40A current limiter >equal to an 80A fuse? Well, kinda sorta . . . Recall that the 80A fuse is FAST and it was selected as a good compromise for ALL alternators 60A and below. The ANL series current limiters are like fusible links and not subject to tripping out under small overloads like the fuse. I've just posted an article on the topic which you're all welcome to read at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: flux cleanup
> >Bob, > >Along with my VM-1000, came a small jar of Nokorode regular paste flux. >This is specified for use with the solder joints on the d-sub plug >containing the inputs from the EGT & CHT thermocouples. Vision Microsystems >specifies that the pins and crimping tools be washed with water after >soldering. Zink chloride is mentioned on the label. > >Now that I know that this stuff is "not for electronics use" as specified on >the label, how should I clean, or treat my kit audio panel on which I used >some of this? (I have a supply of your favorite $.88 disc brake cleaner.) > >Thanks, > Tom Barnes Yuk! I'm astounded that Ron would supply this material with his kit. I'm mystified as to why it's needed. Perhaps to put thermocouple wires into the solder cups? I've never tried using an extra active flux to see if it will allow me to use tin-lead solder on thermocouples. I generally use machined crimp pins on the thermocouple wire or coat the tips of the wires with silver solder before using tin-lead solder to attach them to solder cups. The $.88 cleaner is lacquer-thinner in a spray can. I think it would do a pretty good job of getting all the nasty stuff off. Are the crimp pins machined (solid brass barrels) or sheet metal open barrel? If they're open barrel, I can understand why he would want to add solder . . . thermocouple wires are harder than copper/brass . . . hard to get a reliable grip with the sheet metal pins. Machined pins can be substituted in the same connector and eliminate the need for solder and flux all together. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John & Teresa Huft" <widgeon92L(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative B-lead fuse . . .
Date: Sep 03, 2001
Bob- Lets say I have a 60A alternator, and a 60A ANL. And, lets say I let the battery run down, and so the alternator is actually producing 60 Amps, to charge the battery and run the other stuff. What is the voltage drop across the ANL? Is this a heat-operated device? Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 12:24 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternative B-lead fuse . . . > >I'm obviously missing something, here. But is a 40A current limiter >equal to an 80A fuse? Well, kinda sorta . . . Recall that the 80A fuse is FAST and it was selected as a good compromise for ALL alternators 60A and below. The ANL series current limiters are like fusible links and not subject to tripping out under small overloads like the fuse. I've just posted an article on the topic which you're all welcome to read at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding question
> >I am building an RV6 and have already installed the Vans location for the battery and engine ground studs per Vans on the firewall in front of the battery with the Vans supplied 8" #2 cable from the battery neg. I recently purchased your single point ground block and wanted to put that nearer to the instrument panel for instrument grounds and run an approximately 20" ground strap or #2 cable to the already installed firewall stud. 1) Am I compromising anything doing this?, 2) Will this be an adequate grounding system? > Local ground for the battery is fine . . . but the ground block should be on the firewall so that it shares the ground stud with battery (-) connection and the crankcase jumper. What you propose would work but it's not the way the system was designed for optimum performance . . . the idea is to bring everything together insofar as it's possible to a single point on the firewall. What you propose will probably work and it will be an improvement over what's flying around in most certified ships today. A remotely mounted ground block should be isolated from local ground . . . mount it on a piece of wood or phenolic . . . a fat ground strap is not necessary . . . #10 wire would be big enough to connect it to the firewall. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Continuity Test
Date: Sep 03, 2001
Hi Bob, Checking out the electrical system on my RV4 I have ran into something I can not figure out. My 4 is basically wired per your Figure Z-11. Two batteries and two battery buses. A continuity test, with the wires disconnected from the buses, I get continuity from the battery contactor to the main battery bus wire. Touch the probe to the aux battery bus no continuity. Ok so far I think? With the probe connected to the aux battery connector and the aux battery bus wire I get continuity but I also get continuity touching the main battery bus wire? This I don't understand. It looks like this should not happen. Your help please! Best regards,Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Panel switches and circuit breaker requirements
Date: Sep 03, 2001
Bob, I am trying to putt the final touch to the design of my panel and would appreciate your comments. This is an IFR "all electric" single battery concept (Figure Z-8, Aeroelectric Connection) with a 40A ND with internal regulator backed up with a B&C SD-8 alternator and s704-1 relay. Crowbar OV protection is used on each. Regarding the ELECTRICAL charging and power BUS distribution switches and circuit breakers, this is my understanding: 1) 5A circuit breakers will be mounted on the panel for each alternator and it is this breaker that will trip, if and when the crowbar OV module activates. And also, one could use the primary alternator's CB to momentarily reset the alternator while leaving the main battery switch ON. 2) There will be one toggle switch to turn on/off the SD-8 alternator, and another independent switch (e-bus alternate feed) to supply power to the essential bus should the MAIN BAT switch be turned OFF. Based on this, the use of the AUX ALT does not limit you to using only those items wired to the the ESSENTIAL BUS. It would be appropriate to put the two switches side by side as it seems they would normally be used together. 3) If the MAIN BAT was turned OFF, and the AUX ALT turned ON, the SD-8 would charge the battery. 4) By manipulating a combination of switches and circuit breakers, one could substitute the use of the SD-8 in place of the primary alternator while using the MAIN bus. Of course, the battery would probably drain if it was left in this state. First, am I right with these statements and can you think of any switches or circuit breakers that I've overlooked? The way I see it, these are the ONLY circuit breakers on the panel. Secondly, what acronyms do you typically use for labeling these circuit breakers and switches on the panel? I surely appreciate your comments. Tom Barnes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Alternative B-lead fuse . . .
> >Bob- > >Lets say I have a 60A alternator, and a 60A ANL. And, lets say I let the >battery run down, and so the alternator is actually producing 60 Amps, to >charge the battery and run the other stuff. What is the voltage drop across >the ANL? Is this a heat-operated device? > >Thanks, John It's just a fuse . . . albeit with different thermal characteristics than the JJS and certainly different than circuit breakers. It operates based upon an Amps(squared) * Seconds constant just like a breaker, fuse or even a piece of wire . . . yes, it's heat build up that ultimately melts it open. Don't know what the installed resistance is so I can only guess at the voltage drop . . . but it's going to be insignificant . . . less than 100 millivolts. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Panel switches and circuit breaker requirements
> >Bob, > I am trying to putt the final touch to the design of my panel and would >appreciate your comments. This is an IFR "all electric" single battery >concept (Figure Z-8, Aeroelectric Connection) with a 40A ND with internal >regulator backed up with a B&C SD-8 alternator and s704-1 relay. Crowbar OV >protection is used on each. > >Regarding the ELECTRICAL charging and power BUS distribution switches and >circuit breakers, this is my understanding: > >1) 5A circuit breakers will be mounted on the panel for each alternator >and it is this breaker that will trip, if and when the crowbar OV module >activates. And also, one could use the primary alternator's CB to >momentarily reset the alternator while leaving the main battery switch ON. Alternators do not require "resetting" . . . further, if you use the S700-2-10 progressive transfer switch as a DC POWER MASTER, the first position turns on battery only, the second position brings up the alternator. The alternator can be shut off any time and still leave the battery on line. >2) There will be one toggle switch to turn on/off the SD-8 alternator, >and another independent switch (e-bus alternate feed) to supply power to the >essential bus should the MAIN BAT switch be turned OFF. Based on this, the >use of the AUX ALT does not limit you to using only those items wired to the >the ESSENTIAL BUS. It would be appropriate to put the two switches side by >side as it seems they would normally be used together. No problem with that. There is no harm in having ALL switches on at the same time. There is only advantage in selectively closing switched depending on the nature of the failure. Some have asked if they can run the main and aux alternators together for some "added capacity" and the answer is yes . . . can't imagine why you would ever need to do this but it can be done. >3) If the MAIN BAT was turned OFF, and the AUX ALT turned ON, the SD-8 >would charge the battery. Yes . . . and run goodies on the e-bus should the alternate feed switch happen to be closed also. >4) By manipulating a combination of switches and circuit breakers, one >could substitute the use of the SD-8 in place of the primary alternator >while using the MAIN bus. Of course, the battery would probably drain if it >was left in this state. Correct . . . but the drain on the battery would be reduced by the approximately 10Amps that the SD-8 will deliver. If you were close to the intended destination and wanted to leave the main bus up for the approach, there's not a thing wrong with adding the SD-8 output to extend the battery life. >First, am I right with these statements and can you think of any switches or >circuit breakers that I've overlooked? The way I see it, these are the ONLY >circuit breakers on the panel. >Secondly, what acronyms do you typically use for labeling these circuit >breakers and switches on the panel? Correct, only two breakers are advised. I'd call them MAIN ALT and AUX ALT >I surely appreciate your comments. My pleasure sir. . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: flux cleanup
Date: Sep 04, 2001
Bob and others, My VM-1000 is installed and I did not clean anything after soldering. I guess I just missed the part about washing with water after soldering. Just how important is this? I would have a very difficult time doing a "clean up" now. Ken Harrill RV-6, paint -----Original Message----- From: Tom Barnes [mailto:skytop(at)corecomm.net] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: flux cleanup Bob, Along with my VM-1000, came a small jar of Nokorode regular paste flux. This is specified for use with the solder joints on the d-sub plug containing the inputs from the EGT & CHT thermocouples. Vision Microsystems specifies that the pins and crimping tools be washed with water after soldering. Zink chloride is mentioned on the label. Now that I know that this stuff is "not for electronics use" as specified on the label, how should I clean, or treat my kit audio panel on which I used some of this? (I have a supply of your favorite $.88 disc brake cleaner.) Thanks, Tom Barnes ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: internally regulated OV protection
Date: Sep 04, 2001
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel switches and circuit breaker requirements Thread-Index: AcE07Ak0vfBp2C83Tm+fTCxIqxKfZAAaBkGQ
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Bob, Last winter I switched from an externally regulated alternator in my RV-6 to the nippondenso alternator with internal regulator sold by Niagara air parts. So far I've been very pleased with it. I removed my OV protection circuit and external regulator, with intentions to install the OV circuit protection for internally regulated alternators. I was looking over niagara's website over the weekend and read the new instructions for their alternator kit. It says: "In the case of an internal failure resulting in an over voltage, the alternator is designed to shut itself down." Do you think and external OV circuit is still desirable in this case? Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 205 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: internally regulated OV protection
> >Bob, > >Last winter I switched from an externally regulated alternator in my >RV-6 to the nippondenso alternator with internal regulator sold by >Niagara air parts. So far I've been very pleased with it. I removed my >OV protection circuit and external regulator, with intentions to install >the OV circuit protection for internally regulated alternators. I was >looking over niagara's website over the weekend and read the new >instructions for their alternator kit. It says: "In the case of an >internal failure resulting in an over voltage, the alternator is >designed to shut itself down." Do you think and external OV circuit is >still desirable in this case? > >Bob Japundza >RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 205 hours I'd like to believe them . . . but I doubt that they designed the regulator and they cannot provide a schematic of the regulator they use so that anyone else can do a failure mode effects analysis. I've seen the data on a number of smart chips for alternator voltage regulators that do indeed have an ov shutdown capability on board. Problem is that the shutdown works ONLY if the chip itself isn't toast . . . and if the high power pass transistor that the chip controls gets toasted, then the chip can't do anything about it. The technology is out there to put proper ov protection inside an alternator along with a perfectly good regulator. If I could get my hands on all data needed to evaluate the effectiveness of their claim, then perhaps I can endorse it. When battery stores call their latest offerings "gel-cells", I am reluctant to take the advertising hype or word of any sales type at face value until I can understand how their system works and have the same faith in it that they do. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- < Hell, there are no rules here-- we're > < trying to accomplish something. > < Thomas A. Edison > ----------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: flux cleanup
> >Bob and others, > >My VM-1000 is installed and I did not clean anything after soldering. I >guess I just missed the part about washing with water after soldering. Just >how important is this? I would have a very difficult time doing a "clean >up" now. Did you use the paste flux? Do I understand correctly that the past flux is useful for soldering thermocouple wires directly into the solder-cup, d-sub connector? If there are flux residues left behind, this WILL enhance both magnitude and rate of corrosion. Now, if this is limited to thermocouple leads only, perhaps the system can stand a lot of fuzzy stuff. Thermocouples are very low impedance circuits not easily upset by stray corrosion induced leakage. If the connector shares other signals with the thermocouples, I think it would be worth your effort to dismount the connector, remove the backshell, place it in the middle of an old towel to catch the liquid and then rinse it out well with the spray carb cleaner (lacquer thinner in a can). Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Europa Panel
>Hello Bob, >Saw your letter regarding electric vs. vacuum power for attitude gyros etc. >Am contemplating building a Europa but would want to be able to do light IFR >(around Florida). Do you know of an all electric set-up that would work with >the little rotax and provide a safe level of redundancy ? What about battery >back-up for the attitude gyro in case of engine failure ? I'm just a dumb >airline pilot (good at breaking things) so please keep your answers simple. >Thanks for any help, >Randy Palma Let's do a load analysis. You've got about 18 amps available from the Rotax 912 alternator. Let's throw 2.5 amps each at electric gyros and save another 5A for battery charging. This leaves you a budget of 8A to run other things. If you're "IFR" . . . in a cloud, you don't need exterior lights so the 8A left over should run about everything you need to run except pitot heat. You could run strobes only during times that folk MIGHT be able to see you (intermittent obscuration in haze and hangy-downs) . . . so I could see this working. The gyros might not take that much . . . and given the really good directional data you get out of GPS, you could probably do very nicely without a DG in warm-weather cloud busting. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: IFR Europa Panel
Date: Sep 04, 2001
Doesn't Rotax offer a 40amp Nippondenso alternator option belt driven off the prop flange? That would give you dual systems and plenty of power. Weight penalty though. David Swartzendruber Wichita not building yet ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Transponder
Bob, I've been noticing a lot of advertising on the Microair Transponder again. Have they released it for sale yet? Last time I talked to them I was told it would be a few months. It's been a few months! If you haven't got them yet, please put me down for one. Really like the 760 comm. Jim D. N708JD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Subject: Mag Switch Ground Question
Bob, I searched the active search engine but found nothing directly related to question, although I am sure I read something very close on the list..... I have two drawings. One drawing is from the ACS starter switch wiring diagram and the other drawing is your Appendix Z general wiring diagram which I wired my RV-4 after. The ground lug on the mag(s) is connected to the wire sheath on the special wire(ground woven wire around a center insulated wire). On the other end at the ACS switch do I connect the ground sheath(from both mag wires) to the "G" lug on the ACS switch also ?? There are a variety of methodologies for wiring the mags suggested over the years . . . ALL are functional in terms of controlling the ignition system. Several themes have problems with respect to noise mitigation and potential for damage to wiring at a future date: I also have a local ground wire going from the ACS ground lug to a local ground. LOTS of certified ships are wired this way . . . This means that your shields are grounded to the airframe at both ends. The engine end gets grounded through the crankcase-to-firewall jumper, the switch end gets grounded to panel structure. This puts a conductive pathway in parallel with the crankcase to firewall jumper and reduces the effectiveness of the shields as mechanisms to reduce propagation of p-lead noise. The hazard to wiring comes from future maintenance errors wherein the crankcase to firewall ground strap is inadvertently left disconnected but you attempt to crank the engine. The starter tries to find a ground through the p-lead shields (or any other shielded wires to the engine that are similarly mis-used) and the several hundred amps burns up the shielded wires and damages any wires bundled with them. Had a mechanic at our airport do this twice on two different airplanes! Is this correct or do I float the ACS end of these grounds ?? The wiring diagrams seem at odds here. Wired as shown in Figure Z and other drawings I've produced, the system functions as intended. I've had a couple of builders reduce or eliminate magneto noise in their radios by disconnecting the local ground at the switch. Wiring in this manner also prevents the shields from being called upon to do duty for which they are not designed and causing damage to the airplane. Also, I did a first engine start tonight and I have a dead mag. When the switch is placed on the "L" position the engine quits. It runs on the "R" position and the "both" position. I got some tracing to do here.....I have a standard left mag impulse coupling (goes clank when I spin the prop...) Any suggestions on tracing the bug ? The timing seems spot on on 25 degrees on both mags...one firing a slight prop bump from the other when I use the buzz box. Just because the mag times doesn't mean it's a good mag. Try disconnecting the p-lead right at the left mag, start the engine and see if it runs on "L" position (R-mag grounded). If so, the problem is in the wiring. If the engine quits, the mag is bad. Bob . . . ( There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. ) ( That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to ) ( finding out what's right. ) ( -Carl Sagan- ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Micorair Transponder
> >Bob, >I've been noticing a lot of advertising on the Microair Transponder >again. Have they released it for sale yet? >Last time I talked to them I was told it would be a few months. It's >been a few months! >If you haven't got them yet, please put me down for one. Really like >the 760 comm. > >Jim D. N708JD I have a standing order for three of them as soon as they arrive stateside. I think they'll sell for $1200 with a harness (like I sell for the 760VHF). I can also probably bundle them with an encoder for a tad less than you would pay for it elsewhere and have the encoder wired up too. They keep telling me (a few more weeks) every time I call. I think they're being delivered to Australian customers first. If you'd like to put one (or the combo) on order, you could place an order on my website and put your desires into the comments box. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Europa Panel
> >Doesn't Rotax offer a 40amp Nippondenso alternator option belt driven off >the prop flange? That would give you dual systems and plenty of power. >Weight penalty though. > >David Swartzendruber >Wichita >not building yet I'd forgotten about that . . . I've seen some of those installations but didn't know if it was a Rotax or aftermarket product. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: IFR Europa Panel
Date: Sep 05, 2001
The folks at Europa have told me that although that alternator will fit the engine it will not fit inside of the Europa XS cowl. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear (airframe complete, FF and panel not started) Irvine, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 6:30 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: IFR Europa Panel > > > > >Doesn't Rotax offer a 40amp Nippondenso alternator option belt driven off > >the prop flange? That would give you dual systems and plenty of power. > >Weight penalty though. > > > >David Swartzendruber > >Wichita > >not building yet > > > I'd forgotten about that . . . > I've seen some of those installations but didn't know > if it was a Rotax or aftermarket product. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------------- > ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) > ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) > ( Charles F. Kettering ) > ---------------------------------------------- > http://www.aeroelectric.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Antennas
Bob, Do you or any of the listers know of anyone other than ASC that carries Bob Archer Antennas for conductive aircraft(RV's)? Really don't want to deal with those guys if I can keep from it.(bad experiences in the past). Really wish I could find a Comm. ant. to fit inside the V.S. of the 7. (vertical to vertical/ horizontal to horizontal) Another question I've been meaning to ask, what kind of interference will there be, if any, from mounting the Archer Comm. and Nav. Ant. in tips having strobes? I figure everything for the strobes will have to be shielded, correct? Looking at using a remote power supply for them mounted in the Fuselage. Checked the archives but, no joy so far. Jim D. N708JD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Antennas
Date: Sep 05, 2001
> Do you or any of the listers know of anyone other than ASC that carries > Bob Archer Antennas for conductive aircraft(RV's)? Try Jim Ayers Less_Drag(at)juno.com Ross Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Antennas
Date: Sep 05, 2001
Thread-Topic: AeroElectric-List: Antennas Thread-Index: AcE2RDhXYezuWA2sR+6iCel0s7LjkAAAg58w
From: "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com>
You can buy them directly from Bob Archer: Bob Archer 21818 Ocean Ave. Torrance, CA 90503 310-316-8796 David > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Duckett [mailto:perfeng(at)3rivers.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 12:48 > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas > > > > > Bob, > Do you or any of the listers know of anyone other than ASC > that carries > Bob Archer Antennas for conductive aircraft(RV's)? Really > don't want to > deal with those guys if I can keep from it.(bad experiences in the > past). Really wish I could find a Comm. ant. to fit inside > the V.S. of > the 7. (vertical to vertical/ horizontal to horizontal) > Another question I've been meaning to ask, what kind of interference > will there be, if any, from mounting the Archer Comm. and > Nav. Ant. in > tips having strobes? I figure everything for the strobes > will have to > be shielded, correct? Looking at using a remote power supply > for them > mounted in the Fuselage. > Checked the archives but, no joy so far. > > Jim D. N708JD > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Antennas
Date: Sep 05, 2001
Contact Bob directly! bobsantennas(at)earthlink.com Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Duckett" <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas Bob, Do you or any of the listers know of anyone other than ASC that carries Bob Archer Antennas for conductive aircraft(RV's)? Really don't want to deal with those guys if I can keep from it.(bad experiences in the past). Really wish I could find a Comm. ant. to fit inside the V.S. of the 7. (vertical to vertical/ horizontal to horizontal) Another question I've been meaning to ask, what kind of interference will there be, if any, from mounting the Archer Comm. and Nav. Ant. in tips having strobes? I figure everything for the strobes will have to be shielded, correct? Looking at using a remote power supply for them mounted in the Fuselage. Checked the archives but, no joy so far. Jim D. N708JD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Antennas
Date: Sep 05, 2001
Jim: I bought my Archer Antenna for the VOR Wing tip mount on my RV6-A right from Bob himself! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas > > Bob, > Do you or any of the listers know of anyone other than ASC that carries > Bob Archer Antennas for conductive aircraft(RV's)? Really don't want to > deal with those guys if I can keep from it.(bad experiences in the > past). Really wish I could find a Comm. ant. to fit inside the V.S. of > the 7. (vertical to vertical/ horizontal to horizontal) > Another question I've been meaning to ask, what kind of interference > will there be, if any, from mounting the Archer Comm. and Nav. Ant. in > tips having strobes? I figure everything for the strobes will have to > be shielded, correct? Looking at using a remote power supply for them > mounted in the Fuselage. > Checked the archives but, no joy so far. > > Jim D. N708JD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2001
From: Melvinke(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: IFR Europa Panel
The Rotax add-on alternator is simple to fit and works well, offering redundancy to the built-in generator. It calls for a simple modification to the exhaust system to provide clearance, and some ingenuity to carry through the wiring to the electric prop (if fitted). Really recommend it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: electrical noise
>Dear Bob, I installed my Microair 760 and it works great. The only >problem is a very noisey turn coordinator. The reason I know this is the >problem, is because it is the only gyro instrument on the panel. If >there is a filter that you sell for this application please send it >along with the bill. Any installation suggestions please include those >too. Thanks again for all your help. go to radio shack and get a 270-030 noise filter kit. try a temporary wiring job with the choke in series with the +14 volt lead to the turn coordinator. Wire the capacitor from +14 to ground on the BUS side of the choke. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/noisfltr.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Line Noise Filter
Date: Sep 06, 2001
Hi Bob, Interested in the noise problem. The 270-030 noise filter kit I got from RS didn't look anything like your sketch. It had two wires out of it and a capacitor. From your sketch does the capacitor go in the noisy device ground wire? Totally confused! Best regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas System check with the power on(batteries) seems to be ok. I get two different voltages on the battery buss but still wonder about the continuity check! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Subject: Line noise filter
Date: Sep 06, 2001
Hi Bob, After more study I have it figured out! I just didn't tie both ground points together. They both go to your forest of ground tabs. Regards, Bruce Bell Lubbock, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Line noise filter
> >Hi Bob, >After more study I have it figured out! I just didn't tie both ground points >together. They both go to your forest of ground tabs. >Regards, >Bruce Bell >Lubbock, Texas There's a better way. I'm packing to leave in the morning for a weekend seminar in Orlando . . . can't do it tonight. However, when I get back I'll do a Shop Notes on how to use the Radio Shack 270-030 filter kit to assemble an effective small noise filter with a minimum of hassles. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Orlando Seminar
We've barely got enough folks signed up for this program to break even. Some people bought airline tickets (including me) to attend this presentation so canceling the program is out of the question. If any of you have been planning to attend one of our programs "someday" and you live in FL . . . now would be an excellent time to do it! See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Orlando.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 07, 2001
Another benefit of toggle switches is for electronic ignition. The "On" position for a mag is really open to break the ground circuit, while the "On" for electronic ignition (e.g. Lightspeed) is closed to provide power to the unit. This is dirt simple to wire with toggles, just turn the switch upside down or use the other contacts on an SPDT. Not so simple with a key switch. Greg Young > > > Let me add my two cents worth here: over the last 6 > months I've seen this question asked over and over... > it seems everybody has trouble with these key > switches. At my own airport several of the > homebuilders have had the same problems. May I ask > why is everybody so determined to use these stupid, > expensive switches? You don't really think the lack > of a key is going to stop someone from stealing your > plane, do you? Remember, all a thief has to do is > reach under the panel, cut the wires, and the mags are > now HOT. A flip of the prop and your plane is gone. > > I'd like to suggest a MUCH easier setup... two toggle > switches (one for each mag) and a push button for the > starter. Absolutely dirt simple to wire up, and > cheaper than a key switch. And, judging by the number > of busted key switches I've seen, much more reliable > too. This is how my Cessna 310 is wired, from the > factory, and it works great. Yes, it takes up > SLIGHTLY more room on the panel than a key switch, but > it's worth the trade. I've converted two Long-EZ's to > this setup, and both owners are very happy. > > Just my opinion.... > Bill > Lancaster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 08, 2001
And - if one switch falls to bits you haven't lost the lot like you would if the key sw frizzles -J- From: "Greg Young" <GYOUNG@CS-SOL.COM> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mag Switch Ground Question Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:03:57 -0500 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <GYOUNG@CS-SOL.COM> Another benefit of toggle switches is for electronic ignition. The "On" position for a mag is really open to break the ground circuit, while the "On" for electronic ignition (e.g. Lightspeed) is closed to provide power to the unit. This is dirt simple to wire with toggles, just turn the switch upside down or use the other contacts on an SPDT. Not so simple with a key switch. Greg Young -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Irvine Let me add my two cents worth here: over the last 6 months I've seen this question asked over and over... it seems everybody has trouble with these key switches. At my own airport several of the homebuilders have had the same problems. May I ask why is everybody so determined to use these stupid, expensive switches? You don't really think the lack of a key is going to stop someone from stealing your plane, do you? Remember, all a thief has to do is reach under the panel, cut the wires, and the mags are now HOT. A flip of the prop and your plane is gone. I'd like to suggest a MUCH easier setup... two toggle switches (one for each mag) and a push button for the starter. Absolutely dirt simple to wire up, and cheaper than a key switch. And, judging by the number of busted key switches I've seen, much more reliable too. This is how my Cessna 310 is wired, from the factory, and it works great. Yes, it takes up SLIGHTLY more room on the panel than a key switch, but it's worth the trade. I've converted two Long-EZ's to this setup, and both owners are very happy. Just my opinion.... Bill Lancaster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <bruce.gray(at)snet.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 08, 2001
OK, now you've done it!! I'm confused again. I thought that with a typical installation, with an impulse coupling on the left mag, you want the right mag p-lead grounded during starting. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question Would the switch be a ON-OFF-(ON) where it the left listed would ground the mag, middle would disconnect the mag, right momentary to turn on the starter and the mag would still be dis-connected. Sounds like it would work well. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2001
From: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
Regarding the use of a combination mag/start toggle switch, one thing that might be considered is the possibility of engaging the starter accidentally while the engine is running during mag checks, in flight trouble shooting etc. No idea what degree of damage could occur if this happened. For this reason I may elect to locate the starter button in a more remote location. This might also prevent accidentally turning the prop when rummaging around the cockpit on the ground, or when someone else if poking around in your plane (like a thief, maybe?) Remember the floor-mounted starter contactor switch on early cars? (before my time, but I've seen 'em) Using something like this would eliminate the starter contactor and reduce the length of the cable run, provided it was hard to hit accidentally. Just a thought... Anyone know the consequences of firing the starter with the engine running? From the PossumWorks in TN Mark RV-6A fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Covington" <jc(at)relian.com>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 08, 2001
re: Anyone know the consequences of firing the starter with the engine running? Doesn't sound so hot when I do it in my Toyota. On a scale of good to bad, I imagine it's bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob A" <racker(at)rmci.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 08, 2001
I used two Aeroelectric 2-3 switches for the mags, along with a starter button. Wired it up so the starter can ONLY engage with the left mag on (starter will not operate with both mags off or both mags on). If that ain't foolproof enough, add a hidden idiot in the canopy/thief kill switch too. Rob Acker (RV-6) > > Regarding the use of a combination mag/start toggle switch, one > thing that might > be considered is the possibility of engaging the starter > accidentally while the > engine is running during mag checks, in flight trouble shooting > etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 09, 2001
We've all done it - well I have anyway. Not to different to the effect when the engine starts, the starter gear is flung clear of the ring gear. Not the end of the world but wouln't want to make a habit of it. IMHO -J- From: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 13:41:11 -0500 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) Regarding the use of a combination mag/start toggle switch, one thing that might be considered is the possibility of engaging the starter accidentally while the engine is running during mag checks, in flight trouble shooting etc. No idea what degree of damage could occur if this happened. For this reason I may elect to locate the starter button in a more remote location. This might also prevent accidentally turning the prop when rummaging around the cockpit on the ground, or when someone else if poking around in your plane (like a thief, maybe?) Remember the floor-mounted starter contactor switch on early cars? (before my time, but I've seen 'em) Using something like this would eliminate the starter contactor and reduce the length of the cable run, provided it was hard to hit accidentally. Just a thought... Anyone know the consequences of firing the starter with the engine running? From the PossumWorks in TN Mark RV-6A fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: Mag Switch Ground Question
Date: Sep 09, 2001
>> Anyone know the consequences of firing the starter with the engine running? << It certainly never does them any good as a tooth can be chipped, which almost always happens, when the starter gear collides with the fast-moving ring gear. However, the Prestolite starter is reasonably protected in that as soon as the gear hits the starter gear it is spun back into a retracted position and it will stay there. The new starters with a positive engagement don't fare quite as well as the solenoid forces engagement. Then the over-running clutch allows the gear to spin freely - but at about a jillion rpm. Everyone has heard someone do it to a car engine (I've never done it myself, mind you!) and I've never seen one fail - that time, anyway. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Goff" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: Re: Orlando Seminar
Date: Sep 09, 2001
Hi Bob. Wouldn't you know it! After all the farting around we did to try and get a seminar in Florida I gotta leave for New Hampshire tonight!! (Sunday) Well, someday It'll happen. Good luck. Dave Goff St Augustine, FL PS- Anything ever happen with getting the Aux Battery Mang Modules made? I still certainly need one. One of these days I'm just going to call you and figure out the "problems" I have with determining my harness. It's too confusing for me to write it as a question for the aerolist. > If any of you have been planning to attend one > of our programs "someday" and you live in FL . . . > now would be an excellent time to do it! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground question
>Granted, I'm a bit of nut on building systems that are >easy to maintain, but to me it seems so logical to >have ONE switch perform ONE function. And Mark >Phillips made a good point about possibly hitting the >START position when doing a mag check. It's probably >not very likely, but still... it's not something you >would want to do often. I'm inclined to agree with this philosophy. I'm changing my design to include a dedicated start switch. Thanks guys, I needed that - Bill RANS Courier/912uls in progress Castro Valley, Ca (SF bay area) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Wiring s704-1 disconnect relay
Date: Sep 09, 2001
List, I'm trying to wire the disconnect relay for my SD-8 PM alternator and use a crowbar OV protection device. Does the crowbar device replace the need for a diode (1N4005) as illustrated in Bob's picture of the S704-1 on his web site? If I still need to use the diode, then do I buy new terminals or is there a trick to getting three conductors into those little holes in the terminals provided? Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 "all electric" and lots to learn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)corecomm.net>
Subject: Roll your own crowbar
Date: Sep 09, 2001
List, I have the components to make a couple crowbar ov modules and I'm wondering if I should assemble it using a general purpose pc board or make it as compact as possible and perhaps make it air tight the way Bob does his. I've never done anything without a board. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Barnes -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Roll your own crowbar
> >List, > I have the components to make a couple crowbar ov modules and I'm >wondering if I should assemble it using a general purpose pc board or make >it as compact as possible and perhaps make it air tight the way Bob does >his. I've never done anything without a board. Any tips would be >appreciated. > >Thanks, > Tom Barnes -6 Obviously, etched circuit boards and enclosures have a mechanical role in assisting the fabricator during assembly and providing some measure of robustness and protection when the device is installed for service. From a functional perspective, the circuit will work if you simply tack solder the parts together in a little "spider web" of components . . . electrons are not choosy about what kind of house they live in, given them contiguous pathways through the various components and the circuit will function as intended . . . EXCEPTION . . . some have devices warm up enough to require heatsinking. Housing here is important to the device but not the electrons who will still be happy to do their assigned tasks until the overheated component becomes toast. In my website article on cladboarding, I suggested a means for wrapping a fairly robust exterior around a somewhat chaotic collection of soldered together parts and after functionality was confirmed, immobilizing the components with foam-in-place potting. Once the potting is set up and the lid is in place, nobody knows and nobody cares what the thing looks like inside as long as functionality and longevity are assured.. The prototypes of the OV module were built with leaded components by simply wiring them together with the shortest possible leads and the most compact and reasonably organize manner I could devise. After functionality was assured, I used Shoo-Goo adhesive to coat the components and immobilize them. Sometimes you need to put on several thin coats and allow to dry between . . . it's a little time consuming but it's not your hammer-n-tongs time . . . you can be doing other useful things while the glue is setting up. I'm getting ready to post a Shop Notes article on wiring and packaging a low current noise filter using the radio shack 270-030 filter kit. I'll show you how to use good ol' Shoo-Goo to hold this critter together. The pictures are all done. Maybe I'll get the text hammered out this evening. Will post a note here on the list when it's done. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- < Hell, there are no rules here-- we're > < trying to accomplish something. > < Thomas A. Edison > ----------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring s704-1 disconnect relay
> >List, > I'm trying to wire the disconnect relay for my SD-8 PM alternator and >use a crowbar OV protection device. Does the crowbar device replace the >need for a diode (1N4005) as illustrated in Bob's picture of the S704-1 on >his web site? > If I still need to use the diode, then do I buy new terminals >or is there a trick to getting three conductors into those little holes in >the terminals provided? You can leave the diode off if you wish. The energy stored in the coil of the S704-1 relay is small compared to its heftier cousins and doesn't represent much of a threat to switch life . . . If you wanted to use the diode, install the ov module further upstream at the breaker or switch . . . it just needs to pull the feedline to ground anywhere downstream of the circuit breaker . . . it doesn't have to be right across the coil terminals at the relay. Bob . . . ( There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. ) ( That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to ) ( finding out what's right. ) ( -Carl Sagan- ) http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
>Regarding the use of a combination mag/start toggle switch, one thing that might >be considered is the possibility of engaging the starter accidentally while the >engine is running during mag checks, in flight trouble shooting etc. No idea >what degree of damage could occur if this happened. For this reason I may elect >to locate the starter button in a more remote location. This might also prevent >accidentally turning the prop when rummaging around the cockpit on the ground, >or when someone else if poking around in your plane (like a thief, maybe?) >Remember the floor-mounted starter contactor switch on early cars? (before my >time, but I've seen 'em) Using something like this would eliminate the >starter contactor and reduce the length of the cable run, provided it was hard >to hit accidentally. Just a thought... We had a pretty good discussion about these kinds of things at our weekend seminar in Orlando last Saturday. It came up during some questions about the value of level-locking switches and putting spring loaded guards over switches to prevent idle, inadvertent operation. If you wire a pair of 2-5 switches (prefered) or a 2-3 and 2-5 combination to provide starter control in combination with control of the left mag and interlock so that the starter can't run with the right mag off, then inadvertent starter operation can't happen after the engine is running and you have both mags on. Inadvertent operation can be all but impossible by careful layout of switch panels. For single rows of switches put engine controls at far left end thusly boost pump (opt) R-mag L-mag/start boost dc power master aux battery master (opt) e-bus alternate feed pitot heat (opt) taxi light landing light (wig-wag opt) nav lites strobe lights There is a buffer of switches between the switches you operate in flight and the ones you generally don't operate in flight . . . switches in the buffer zone have no evil consequences for getting the wrong one. If you do a two-row installation, put the first 7 swithes on top, put the rest in the row below. Now you have even more isolation between the two classes of switch. >Anyone know the consequences of firing the starter with the engine running? It's noisy and it will put shiny places on the gear teeth where there were none before but it's not a formula for instant death of the parts. It's such a very rare event and so easy to make more rare that I don't think it's worth much time and intellectual capital to think about it much. One builder was worried about his airplane sitting at an airshow where one would like to let folks (especially little ones) sit in the cockpit. Here is a real case where un-observed cases of switchitis present possiblity of real hazard . . . if it's MY airplane on static display for the benefit of hyper active future pilots or not-too-bright-never-will-be-a-pilots the BATTERY IS DISCONNECTED before anybody gets into the seat. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Switch wiring for electronic ignition....was Mag Switch
Ground Question
Date: Sep 10, 2001
What switching do you recommend for the following. Right mag replaced with an electronic ignition that will be used to start in normal operation. Left mag remains the same with an impulse coupling for emergency starts I was planning on switching the elec ignition with a switch and the mag with a switch and using a starter button. Should these be wired so that the starter can NOT be engaged if both of these switches is on? If so, how is this done? The switch layout I was thinking of using is Battery master Electronic ignition fuel pump/primer starter button right mag space position lights/strobes landing lights on a different part of the panel essential bus Ross Mickey 6A all electric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Mag Switch Ground Question
> >Let me add my two cents worth here: over the last 6 >months I've seen this question asked over and over... >it seems everybody has trouble with these key >switches. At my own airport several of the >homebuilders have had the same problems. May I ask >why is everybody so determined to use these stupid, >expensive switches? You don't really think the lack >of a key is going to stop someone from stealing your >plane, do you? Remember, all a thief has to do is >reach under the panel, cut the wires, and the mags are >now HOT. A flip of the prop and your plane is gone. I lost the key to a rental while on a long cross country a few years back. Side doors were locked but baggage door was not. Got in through baggage door. Reached behind panel and wiggled p-leads to break them off the switch, propped the airplane and brought it home. >I'd like to suggest a MUCH easier setup... two toggle >switches (one for each mag) and a push button for the >starter. Absolutely dirt simple to wire up, and >cheaper than a key switch. And, judging by the number >of busted key switches I've seen, much more reliable >too. This is how my Cessna 310 is wired, from the >factory, and it works great. Yes, it takes up >SLIGHTLY more room on the panel than a key switch, but >it's worth the trade. I've converted two Long-EZ's to >this setup, and both owners are very happy. . . . and we have a guarded push button for those who gravitate toward that solution. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s895-1 and figure Z9 in your book or http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/R9Z_0400.pdf Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- < Hell, there are no rules here-- we're > < trying to accomplish something. > < Thomas A. Edison > ----------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Switch wiring for electronic ignition..
> >What switching do you recommend for the following. > >Right mag replaced with an electronic ignition that will be used to start in >normal operation. >Left mag remains the same with an impulse coupling for emergency starts > > >I was planning on switching the elec ignition with a switch and the mag with >a switch and using a starter button. Should these be wired so that the >starter can NOT be engaged if both of these switches is on? If so, how is >this done? > >The switch layout I was thinking of using is > >Battery master >Electronic ignition >fuel pump/primer >starter button >right mag > >space > >position lights/strobes >landing lights > >on a different part of the panel > >essential bus When using toggle switches, you can easily switch between magneto and electronic ignition operation by simply moving one wire on the ignition switch. The two pole ON-ON switch has contacts that are closed in the up position (for electronic) and contacts that are closed in the down position (for mags) . . . in this case you want to use 2-3 switches and the push button. I would not change my recommendations as to positioning of the switches with respect to each other. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------------- ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the ) ( smoke screen of impossibility." ) ( Charles F. Kettering ) ---------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: Bill Irvine <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Crimping Big Wires
Ok, now that we've beaten the mag switch question to death, how is everyone attaching terminals to the big wires...the 2, 4 and 6 gauge wires? Is everybody soldering them on per Electric Bob's suggestion, or is there a very large crimper out there that I don't know about? I've seen these teminals crimped on with vise-grips, crushed in a vise, even smashed with a hammer against a concrete floor, and the results were as hideous as they sound. Personally, I would rather crimp; it's easier to do on the plane than soldering, and that's how we did it on the B-2, with some very large and VERY expensive crimpers. So, I've designed and will soon make a large and inexpensive crimper that will do this job. My question to you all is: would anybody be interested in buying one of these crimpers? Should I have the machine shop make some extras? I'm not sure what the price will be, hopefully not over $100. But the more crimpers I order, the cheaper they will be. So please, everybody speak up and let me know what you think. Is this a good idea or not? Bill Irvine C-310 Lancaster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
Date: Sep 10, 2001
Bill, There are inexpensive crimpers out there under $25. I borrowed one from a friend he found it at the local NAPA auto parts store. The crimper was made for large terminals, had a V notch where the terminal and wire were placed. Then there is a spring loaded die that slid down into the V notch. Hit the die with a hammer until the mark on the die was even with the size of the wire marked on the side of the V and job done. Got all that. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Irvine" <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > Ok, > now that we've beaten the mag switch question to > death, how is everyone attaching terminals to the big > wires...the 2, 4 and 6 gauge wires? Is everybody > soldering them on per Electric Bob's suggestion, or is > there a very large crimper out there that I don't know > about? I've seen these teminals crimped on with > vise-grips, crushed in a vise, even smashed with a > hammer against a concrete floor, and the results were > as hideous as they sound. > > Personally, I would rather crimp; it's easier to do on > the plane than soldering, and that's how we did it on > the B-2, with some very large and VERY expensive > crimpers. So, I've designed and will soon make a > large and inexpensive crimper that will do this job. > My question to you all is: would anybody be > interested in buying one of these crimpers? Should I > have the machine shop make some extras? I'm not sure > what the price will be, hopefully not over $100. But > the more crimpers I order, the cheaper they will be. > > So please, everybody speak up and let me know what you > think. Is this a good idea or not? > > Bill Irvine > C-310 > Lancaster, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
Date: Sep 10, 2001
I soldered them as per Bob. It is very easy. The only thing that takes any finesse is not getting to much solder in the joint. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Irvine" <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > Ok, > now that we've beaten the mag switch question to > death, how is everyone attaching terminals to the big > wires...the 2, 4 and 6 gauge wires? Is everybody > soldering them on per Electric Bob's suggestion, or is > there a very large crimper out there that I don't know > about? I've seen these teminals crimped on with > vise-grips, crushed in a vise, even smashed with a > hammer against a concrete floor, and the results were > as hideous as they sound. > > Personally, I would rather crimp; it's easier to do on > the plane than soldering, and that's how we did it on > the B-2, with some very large and VERY expensive > crimpers. So, I've designed and will soon make a > large and inexpensive crimper that will do this job. > My question to you all is: would anybody be > interested in buying one of these crimpers? Should I > have the machine shop make some extras? I'm not sure > what the price will be, hopefully not over $100. But > the more crimpers I order, the cheaper they will be. > > So please, everybody speak up and let me know what you > think. Is this a good idea or not? > > Bill Irvine > C-310 > Lancaster, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
I have found that a Nicopress cable crimper works very well on 2, 4, 6,& 8 ga lugs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
Date: Sep 10, 2001
I just marked the wires, stripped them, and took them down to a local FBO. They crimped them for free. Paul Besing RV-6A N197AB Arizona http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Flying Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al & Deb Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)home.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > Bill, > There are inexpensive crimpers out there under $25. I borrowed one from a > friend he found it at the local NAPA auto parts store. The crimper was made > for large terminals, had a V notch where the terminal and wire were placed. > Then there is a spring loaded die that slid down into the V notch. Hit the > die with a hammer until the mark on the die was even with the size of the > wire marked on the side of the V and job done. Got all that. > Al > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Irvine" <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:00 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > > > > > Ok, > > now that we've beaten the mag switch question to > > death, how is everyone attaching terminals to the big > > wires...the 2, 4 and 6 gauge wires? Is everybody > > soldering them on per Electric Bob's suggestion, or is > > there a very large crimper out there that I don't know > > about? I've seen these teminals crimped on with > > vise-grips, crushed in a vise, even smashed with a > > hammer against a concrete floor, and the results were > > as hideous as they sound. > > > > Personally, I would rather crimp; it's easier to do on > > the plane than soldering, and that's how we did it on > > the B-2, with some very large and VERY expensive > > crimpers. So, I've designed and will soon make a > > large and inexpensive crimper that will do this job. > > My question to you all is: would anybody be > > interested in buying one of these crimpers? Should I > > have the machine shop make some extras? I'm not sure > > what the price will be, hopefully not over $100. But > > the more crimpers I order, the cheaper they will be. > > > > So please, everybody speak up and let me know what you > > think. Is this a good idea or not? > > > > Bill Irvine > > C-310 > > Lancaster, CA > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
> >My question to you all is: would anybody be >interested in buying one of these crimpers? Should I >have the machine shop make some extras? I'm not sure >what the price will be, hopefully not over $100. But >the more crimpers I order, the cheaper they will be. > >So please, everybody speak up and let me know what you >think. Is this a good idea or not? > >Bill Irvine >C-310 >Lancaster, CA Hi Bill - If I were doing lots of crimps I'd say count me in, won't be though so thank you for the offer. All the best - Bill Mills RANS Courier in progress Castro Valley, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wig-Wag circuit
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Listers, Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing lights? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: HT leads
Date: Sep 11, 2001
I'm just about to wire up the ignition on my Subaru EA 81 T (Kitfox 5). Dual primary with an MSD coil switcher. Should I use carbon or wire HT leads. With wire is radio supression a problem? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wig-Wag circuit
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Hey John... Check out the wig-wag circuit I have in my -8A... http://vondane.com/rv8a/wiring/dwg/HTML/n8vd_wdwg_r4_frame.htm - DWG3 - Landing Light Circuit... -Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD - Finish http://vondane.com/rv8a/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:11 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag circuit Listers, Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing lights? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gaylen Lerohl" <lerohl@rea-alp.com>
Subject: Re: Crimping Big Wires
Date: Sep 11, 2001
We stock the "Brute Hammer Crimper" http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page21.html It is a good, inexpensive tool. Regards, Gaylen Lerohl www.terminaltown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Al & Deb Paxhia <paxhia2(at)home.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 23:24 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > Bill, > There are inexpensive crimpers out there under $25. I borrowed one from a > friend he found it at the local NAPA auto parts store. The crimper was made > for large terminals, had a V notch where the terminal and wire were placed. > Then there is a spring loaded die that slid down into the V notch. Hit the > die with a hammer until the mark on the die was even with the size of the > wire marked on the side of the V and job done. Got all that. > Al > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Irvine" <wgirvine(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:00 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Big Wires > > > > > > Ok, > > now that we've beaten the mag switch question to > > death, how is everyone attaching terminals to the big save 5% - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wig-Wag circuit
--- John Anderson wrote: > > > > Listers, > Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing > lights? > Thanks, Check out http://aeroelectric.com/articles.html and scroll to Wig-Wag collision avoidance systems . . . and take your pick! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Wig-Wag circuit
> > >Listers, > >Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing lights? There are 4 options shown in diagrams listed at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html and per a reader request, I'm working on a 5th which I hope to get around to one of these days. Bob . .. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
I have wondered for years how long it was going to take before those who would commit the ultimate assaults upon liberty of world citizens would discover the potential of the airplane as a weapon of terror. It's amazed me that a Long-Ez load of ugly cargo hasn't been guided through a window in the White House before this. This horrible and very sad day for thousands of our citizens is going to change a lot of things and none of them are going to be pleasant or welcomed. The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL trying to get a toe hold on the notion that Bush stole the election . . . but I think we can count our lucky stars that he is in the White House . . . would anyone feel better if if Al Gore was working this problem? Given the scope of this action against the US today, it is likely that families we know will be touched directly by events of this terrible day . . . all we can do is hug and cry with them and hope that our leadership has the will, skill and support to do the best that can be done . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James D. Ivey" <jim(at)iveylaw.com>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 11, 2001
> The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL > trying to get a toe hold on the notion that > Bush stole the election . . . but I think we > can count our lucky stars that he is in the > White House . . . would anyone feel better if > if Al Gore was working this problem? Yes. It's Bush's whole "We're Americans and Fuck you!" attitude that brought this about. He has repeatedly thumbed his nose at the international community, escalated the arms race with both China and Russia, and then spent 2 of his 6 months in office on vacation. He is the ultimate lazy ass, moronic Resident. In just a few weeks in office, he single-handedly lost the slimmest of majorities in the Senate by acting as if the Republican's majority was overwhelming and secure. This horrific act not only happened on his watch, but was largely brought about by his laziness, his ignorance, and his arrogance. Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. Asbestos suit on -- flame away.... Jim Ivey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS
. . .
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Please...let us not use this list to vent our frustration and anger. Do it elsewhere....Please. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "James D. Ivey" <jim(at)iveylaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . . > > > The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL > > trying to get a toe hold on the notion that > > Bush stole the election . . . but I think we > > can count our lucky stars that he is in the > > White House . . . would anyone feel better if > > if Al Gore was working this problem? > > Yes. > > It's Bush's whole "We're Americans and Fuck you!" attitude that brought this > about. He has repeatedly thumbed his nose at the international community, > escalated the arms race with both China and Russia, and then spent 2 of his > 6 months in office on vacation. He is the ultimate lazy ass, moronic > Resident. > > In just a few weeks in office, he single-handedly lost the slimmest of > majorities in the Senate by acting as if the Republican's majority was > overwhelming and secure. This horrific act not only happened on his watch, > but was largely brought about by his laziness, his ignorance, and his > arrogance. > > Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. > > Asbestos suit on -- flame away.... > > Jim Ivey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Hmmm.. I was under the impression that semi-intelligent people frequented this list. Guess not!! Jim, would you be from FL by any chance?? Steven DiNieri Niagara Falls, New York RV-6A, P28A-160 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James D. Ivey Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . . > The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL > trying to get a toe hold on the notion that > Bush stole the election . . . but I think we > can count our lucky stars that he is in the > White House . . . would anyone feel better if > if Al Gore was working this problem? Yes. It's Bush's whole "We're Americans and Fuck you!" attitude that brought this about. He has repeatedly thumbed his nose at the international community, escalated the arms race with both China and Russia, and then spent 2 of his 6 months in office on vacation. He is the ultimate lazy ass, moronic Resident. In just a few weeks in office, he single-handedly lost the slimmest of majorities in the Senate by acting as if the Republican's majority was overwhelming and secure. This horrific act not only happened on his watch, but was largely brought about by his laziness, his ignorance, and his arrogance. Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. Asbestos suit on -- flame away.... Jim Ivey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aucountry(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO
PASS . . . i agree ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
The people who orchestrated these events would like nothing better than to have Americans pointing fingers at each other. Lets not give them that pleasure on this list. I think it is times like this that you all need to pull together, rather than talk politics. There are far better forums to discuss these issues. How about we leave this list to aviation electrical discussions? My thoughts and prayers are with those touched by this tragedy. Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada (but in Wichita today) > > >Hmmm.. I was under the impression that semi-intelligent people frequented >this list. Guess not!! > Jim, would you be from FL by any chance?? > >Steven DiNieri >Niagara Falls, New York >RV-6A, P28A-160 > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James D. >Ivey >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:51 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . . > > > > The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL > > trying to get a toe hold on the notion that > > Bush stole the election . . . but I think we > > can count our lucky stars that he is in the > > White House . . . would anyone feel better if > > if Al Gore was working this problem? > >Yes. > >It's Bush's whole "We're Americans and Fuck you!" attitude that brought this >about. He has repeatedly thumbed his nose at the international community, >escalated the arms race with both China and Russia, and then spent 2 of his >6 months in office on vacation. He is the ultimate lazy ass, moronic >Resident. > >In just a few weeks in office, he single-handedly lost the slimmest of >majorities in the Senate by acting as if the Republican's majority was >overwhelming and secure. This horrific act not only happened on his watch, >but was largely brought about by his laziness, his ignorance, and his >arrogance. > >Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. > >Asbestos suit on -- flame away.... > >Jim Ivey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
From: Harold J Kovac <hjk33(at)juno.com>
don't know if Jim is from FL. or not! It doesn't make any difference, I hail from NY / NJ...now living in FL and I beleive he does make a few valid points. The man who's in the job..... we just have to hope he'll do what's necessary. Nuff said....let's look for a better forum for these comments. Now back to Europa Traffic. Harold Kovac ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: Thomas Velvick <tomvelvick(at)home.com>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
>It's Bush's whole "We're Americans and Fuck you!" attitude that brought this >about. Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., >aviation. You spew this hate filled garbage and you have the gall to lecture Mr. Nuckolls about staying on topic on his newsgroup? Your quote in your first sentence pretty much sums up what I think of your response. No regards to you. Tom Velvick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBKD5EBR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Jim Ivey, You have reveiled who you really are. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
I think what is on topic in response to the attack is what effect it will have on aviation. I didn't think of Bob's idea that it could have been a homebuilt that was used - if that were the case, I doubt if I would ever be able to fly the plane I am building. I wonder what restrictions I will have as it is. It may be off topic, but my heart goes out to those who've lost loved ones. Gary Liming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
>Dear Bob, > >I am sending this reply only to you. You may decide for yourself >whether to post it on the AeroElectric-List. > >I am appalled by the "gimme-whiner" paragraph of your message. >Regardless of one's political leanings, do you honestly believe that >this is the appropriate time to offer such political commentary? Given >your considerable education and life experience, could you not think of >any other words of encouragement or support to offer to the families of >the victims of this horrible tragedy? > >While I may still admire your knowledge of all things electrical, sadly >I have lost all respect for you as a man. > >Mark Milgrom I don't think I offered anything that was not in sympathy or support of those who suffered most this day. I also regret that whatever respect you had for me was based upon so fragile a foundation. I will confess to some weaknesses of the moment . . . I've had a few personally tragic moments in my own life but nothing that could prepare me for this. Whatever statements I made with a political bent (but then EVERYTHING we say is political in one forum or another) was based on the lead article of the latest issue of Time . . . in spite a large majority of credible recounts say Bush won it fair and square (confirmed by none other than the chairman of DNC on television), there are people still trying to make the President's job harder by printing articles intended to discredit his position. Now in the midst of all the artificial rhetoric he has to take on one of the hardest tasks since Pearl Harbor. What he does over the next few weeks can have consequences that can commit us to an still larger investment of our nation's personal and material capital. In retrospect, my choice of pejoratives was poor. The misery being dished out on the President probably has more to do with a national effort to capitalize on the a situation in Florida than upon the people of Florida . . . my sincere apologies for insulting the sensibilities of my friends in Florida . . . or anywhere else for that matter. I'm going to be off-list for a few days. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
From: Joel Harding <dsl10driver(at)ev1.net>
on 9/11/01 9:50, James D. Ivey at jim(at)iveylaw.com wrote: > Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. I suggest you take your own advice, Jim, except you probably don't know anything about aviation either. I've never seen such a crude, and unwarranted attack as you have spewed out on this list. I think you should apologize to Bob and the list, and in the future either restrain yourself or go elsewhere. Joel Harding ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Come on guys, Even lawyers and rabid dogs have a right to their opinions, even if they are obnoxious Jerks and are dead wrong! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com>
Subject: Informative leadership.
At 04:23 PM 9/11/2001LRE2(at)aol.com sez: >Come on guys, Even lawyers and rabid dogs have a right to their opinions, >even if they are obnoxious Jerks and are dead wrong! Our President's leadership is becoming apparent. Here is a report from CNN: <http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/white.house/> ** L I N U X ** .~. Paul A. Franz, P.E. Engineering Software The Choice /V\ Blackdog Software Network Consulting and Sales of the GNU /( )\ <http://blackdog.bellevue.wa.us/> Custom Web Services Generation - (425) 641-8202, (425) 641-1773 FAX Internet FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Guys, If I may, as a former participant in one of these heated internet debates, I would offer the opinion that the only victim here will be the usefulness of this site. Let it go, or we may also lose the benefit of the shared wisdom here. Cheers, ~Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2001
From: Thomas Velvick <tomvelvick(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Bob, It appeared to me that you left the rv-list, and quit selling electrical items on your website after negative posts about not having a secure server, etc. I also know that you have a full time job and have better things to do than spend your time helping strangers on the net build electrically better airplanes, but you do. I hope these recent negative posts both personal and public dont affect your presence on the web. You are the one authoritative person I can turn too when I have electrical questions and your help is sincerely appreciated. I have seen over and over where the most qualified people decide it isn't worth the hassle and quit sharing their knowledge over the net. My apologies to everyone including Mr. Ivey for contributing to this thread. Regards, Tom Velvick Peoria, AZ N9233A rv-4 N188KJ rv-6a wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wig-Wag circuit
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Thank you kindly Bill. John A. From: "Bill VonDane" <N8VD(at)EARTHLINK.NET> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag circuit Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:42:27 -0600 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Hey John... Check out the wig-wag circuit I have in my -8A... http://vondane.com/rv8a/wiring/dwg/HTML/n8vd_wdwg_r4_frame.htm - DWG3 - Landing Light Circuit... -Bill VonDane Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A - N8VD - Finish http://vondane.com/rv8a/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Anderson Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:11 AM To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag circuit -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Listers, Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing lights? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: "Daryl Hooke" <hooked(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: FORUM
Ladies and Gentlemen,=0D =0D As an observer from the other side of the world, I awoke to the disbelief of the horrific incidents inflicted upon America. I, and I would think all Australians, offer my sympathy to all Americans on this very sad day.=0D =0D I understand the emotions suffered and that feelings are running high. I'm dissapointed that this forum was used to personally attack some members, exposing all other members to the comments. =0D Is it not possible for personal comments to be directed straight to each recipient rather than through the forum?=0D =0D Any response to this Email should be sent direct to me at hooked@netspace net.au=0D =0D Again my sympathy to all.....I am deeply shocked by the events of the day=2E=0D =0D Daryl Hooke=0D PARADISE BEACH=0D AUSTRALIA=0D hooked(at)netspace.net.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leonard Garceau" <lhgcpg(at)westriv.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 11, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:05 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . . > > >Dear Bob, > > > >I am sending this reply only to you. You may decide for yourself > >whether to post it on the AeroElectric-List. > > > >I am appalled by the "gimme-whiner" paragraph of your message. > >Regardless of one's political leanings, do you honestly believe that > >this is the appropriate time to offer such political commentary? Given > >your considerable education and life experience, could you not think of > >any other words of encouragement or support to offer to the families of > >the victims of this horrible tragedy? > > > >While I may still admire your knowledge of all things electrical, sadly > >I have lost all respect for you as a man. > > > >Mark Milgrom Dear Mark, I have argued many an hour the politics of the nation. But to say you have lost all respect for a man because of his opinion is your loss and not his. Narrow minded people who condem others for their opinions are the ones who seem to cause more problems. Who is not to be respected? I think we should all be repected! It's a sad day when we US citzens can't repect each others views after all this is a free country Bob, I'm sorry for the personal attacks on you. You haven't attacked these people personally and they should not be attacking you. Please don't let a few narrow minded people stop you from helping us. Leonard > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "STEVEN A BOOSKA" <boos1(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: scanner temp spike
Date: Sep 11, 2001
I have a JPS Classic scanner in my Grumman Tiger. Last flight I did a normal runup, entered the runway and noticed the EGT on #1 had gone form the usual 1200 degrees to 1940! The normal peak is about 1450+. The engine was smooth. The CHTs for all cylinders, including no.1 were the normal 330 or so. I taxied back to the hanger (5 minutes) and the temp persisted. I shut the engine down, inspected the engine, and all seemed normal. Several hours later, after the engine had cooled, I repeated the test. No 1 started 100 degrees higher, 200, and spiked to 1770. At that point it stabilized. A few minutes lated it went suddenly down to the normal 1200 and stayed there for the rest of the taxi. I called JPI and they said that the only possible engine problem would be some form of detonation which would show on the CHT at hte same time. Since nothing had they thought I had some electrical interference somewhere that the wire from the probe was picking up.Possible from a strobe. How can this be traced and solved? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
RV list
Subject: Thoughts and Condolences
To our southern neighbours; The thoughts, prayers and condolences of all Canadians are with you on this black memorable day. Bob McC Toronto Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SBooska" <boos1(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: scanner temp spike
Date: Sep 11, 2001
test ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: deltaB(at)erols.com
Subject: Re: FORUM
Tell you what. Now that I've gotten home and have been able to watch the satellite reports for a couple of hours, I'd say it's no real big deal. The worst part was being at work after they shut down all outside communications. You wouldn't believe the disinformation that was flying. You'd think we (and the rest of the free world) were under attack. It was only four planes. And only two could be flown to it's target. The one bound for the pentagon ended up short, and the other that went down outside Pittsburgh never made it close. I'd like to think there were some heroes on that one, or the terrorist pilot was just incompetent. If you have been watching the coverage, I've been giving the BBC the biggest chance to prove themselves, but the CBC (Canadian) comes out the clear winner. The locals just care about themselves. Bernie C. Daryl Hooke wrote: > > > Ladies and Gentlemen,=0D > =0D > As an observer from the other side of the world, I awoke to the disbelief> of > the horrific incidents inflicted upon America. I, and I would think all > Australians, offer my sympathy to all Americans on this very sad day.=0D > =0D > I understand the emotions suffered and that feelings are running high. I> 'm > dissapointed that this forum was used to personally attack some members, > exposing all other members to the comments. =0D > Is it not possible for personal comments to be directed straight to each > recipient rather than through the forum?=0D > =0D > Any response to this Email should be sent direct to me at hooked@netspace > net.au=0D > =0D > Again my sympathy to all.....I am deeply shocked by the events of the day> =2E=0D > =0D > Daryl Hooke=0D > PARADISE BEACH=0D > AUSTRALIA=0D > hooked(at)netspace.net.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts and Condolences
Date: Sep 11, 2001
Thanks to all supporters in other countries around the world. I think it could be so easy for people from other nations to turn their head and not get involved. The compassion that has been shown from listers in many countries really shows that no matter where one is from, there is always a common bond when it comes to humanity. (at least from rational, caring, and supportive individuals from these nations) Paul Besing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thoughts and Condolences > > To our southern neighbours; > > The thoughts, prayers and condolences of all Canadians are with you on > this black memorable day. > > Bob McC > Toronto Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Our thoughts are with you all. Gilles Thesee MCR 4 S project France ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: FORUM
Bernie, rather bizzare comments. I work directly across the street from the Pentagon, I saw the destruction yesterday and have already been over this morning. They may have hit short but still did a terrific amount of damage. We need make sure the families of the thousands of dead and wounded know it's no bid deal. That will be a comforting thought for them. Rick McBride LTC, USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBKD5EBR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Jim, What we are talking about is you! Your choice of words, mean spirited slandering of those who do not believe as you do, and apparent lack of character. The use of a national tragedy to restate your political belief is reprehensible. YES, you have revealed who you really are. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01
Date: Sep 12, 2001
> > Hey John... > > Check out the wig-wag circuit I have in my -8A... > > http://vondane.com/rv8a/wiring/dwg/HTML/n8vd_wdwg_r4_frame.htm - DWG3 - > Landing Light Circuit... > > -Bill VonDane > Colorado Springs, CO > RV-8A - N8VD - Finish > http://vondane.com/rv8a/ Nice site, Bill: With the mechanical flasher, do you notice any radio noise issues? Thanks, Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01
Date: Sep 12, 2001
> The gimme-whiner crowd in Florida are STILL > trying to get a toe hold on the notion that > Bush stole the election . . . but I think we > can count our lucky stars that he is in the > White House . . . would anyone feel better if > if Al Gore was working this problem? I suspect even Al Gore wouldn't feel better... Let alone the rest of us... I agree with you completely. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01
Date: Sep 12, 2001
> Now, try to stick to a topic you know something about -- i.e., aviation. > > Asbestos suit on -- flame away.... > > Jim Ivey > Jim: This list is for pretty much whatever Bob wants it to be about. The fact that the discussion here is even worth reading is because Bob volunteers so much of his time and expertise to make it so. Although I agree with him completely, even if I didn't, I'd just skip over what I didn't like, and read what I came here for. The future of our country's way of life is important enough to all of us to allow Bob a little latitude, for something he feels strongly about. I suggest that if his opinions, electrical or political, bother you, you refrain from damaging your sensitive little synapses by not reading them. I'll do that for your future messages, which offend me. Can you do the same? Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
From: Harold J Kovac <hjk33(at)juno.com>
All the wailing and gnashing of teeth is unwarranted as to any replys unsympathetic to Bob's unnecessary political comment...gloating over the last election... That is history, and whoever is in the White House is going to rely on the CIA,and other intellegence agencys advice for any response or action. Hard Left or Right is not needed now. we all need to be middle of the road, THE SAME ROAD. Lets have no more name calling, and concern ourselves with how can we help. Harold Kovac, a Floridian, not happy with the way the last election was run, but life must go on. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, James D. Ivey wrote: > > > What we are talking about is you! Your choice of words, mean spirited > > slandering of those who do not believe as you do, and > > apparent lack of > > character. The use of a national tragedy to restate your > > political belief is > > reprehensible. YES, you have revealed who you really are. > > Every word of that accurately describes Bob's original off-topic post. > Well lets just piss Bob off so that he pulls the mail list. That will show everybody. Yeh, that's it, lets really piss Bob off. (what is the smiley for childish behavior?) Steve Eberhart Fabricating RV-7 tail parts in my motel room, don't tell housekeeping, N14SE reserved One test is worth a thousand expert opinions but a thousand opinions are easier to get. --plagiarized from an unknown author ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
"RV list"
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts and Condolences
> > >Thanks to all supporters in other countries around the world. I think it >could be so easy for people from other nations to turn their head and not >get involved. The compassion that has been shown from listers in many >countries really shows that no matter where one is from, there is always a >common bond when it comes to humanity. (at least from rational, caring, and >supportive individuals from these nations) > >Paul Besing I second that. The free world all know that the black 11th will affect the whole world. An unconsidered violent response is probably what the evil ones who perpetrated this atrocity wanted to achieve. It is to be hoped that the big guys in the military are careful and accurate when they do respond. If they punish the wrong people the results will be bad for us all. I do hope that Bob hasn't been driven away by the ill considered political remarks carelessly thrown around. That too would help the evil ones to achieve their goal which it appears is to create chaos in the free world. Graham (UK ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBKD5EBR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Jim, Only in your twisted unthinking perception. Bob was not vulgar, nor did he attack you. The writer who said this is his house and you are a guest was right on. Your demeanor, regardless of your limited ability to express your self in a civilized manner, should merit an immediate invitation to leave the premises. So please take your ATTITUDE and get out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L. Mark Thomassons" <lmttmt(at)wwdb.org>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 12, 2001
I made him the same offer some time ago and his reply to me was simply "Fuck Off!" Be ready for the same treatment, it seems to be his only method of communication. L. Mark Thomasson lmttmt(at)wwdb.org "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain, and most fools do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving." Dale Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: <RBKD5EBR(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:48 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . . > > Jim, > Only in your twisted unthinking perception. Bob was not vulgar, nor did he > attack you. The writer who said this is his house and you are a guest was > right on. Your demeanor, regardless of your limited ability to express your > self in a civilized manner, should merit an immediate invitation to leave the > premises. So please take your ATTITUDE and get out. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBKD5EBR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
The twit Jim cannot understand plain english, nor express himself without four letter words. Therefore, I believe any attempt at a rational communication with this limited person is not possible. My vote is for expulsion of this abnormal thinker from the list. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
> >Bob N., >If you're reading this, could you please block any further messages from >"Lord Jim" from being posted to the list? Better yet, since this IS a >democracy (for the time being), let's all vote!!! > >I vote NO MORE MESSAGES FROM JIM. I vote we ALL stay on the list and change the subject. Before Sept 11 all of us email pugilists got along fine. Now we're like kids playing "got you last". This is an incredible tragedy we've witnessed, and it's effects are evident on this list. Buck up lads, let's move on. We're pissing in the wind . . . Bill Mills RANS Courier in progress (hope I'll get to fly it someday in good ol' U.S. airspace) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
>. It's Bob's house. He's >allowed to act how he wants. We're guests, so let's behave accordingly. > >Chris Agree from across the Atlantic. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Goff" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 12, 2001
How 'bout we just save this space for electrical systems debates. Bob can spout anything he wants, as long as I (and you) can sponge off his generosity on this e-list and get my bird finished. I still have several systems to work out in my project. If Bob dumps this list, a bunch of you will be getting hate mail from several members. Dave Goff St Augustine, FL Thorp T-18 (most wiring completed) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince" <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Re: scanner temp spike
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Check your thermocouple. If your instrument is configured for an upscale burnout then an open in the thermocouple or the wire will be displayed as a max temp. You may have a connection or T/C that opens when it gets hot and expands. Vince Welch ----- Original Message ----- From: "STEVEN A BOOSKA" <boos1(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: scanner temp spike > > I have a JPS Classic scanner in my Grumman Tiger. Last flight I did a normal > runup, entered the runway and noticed the EGT on #1 had gone form the usual > 1200 degrees to 1940! The normal peak is about 1450+. The engine was smooth. > The CHTs for all cylinders, including no.1 were the normal 330 or so. I > taxied back to the hanger (5 minutes) and the temp persisted. I shut the > engine down, inspected the engine, and all seemed normal. > > Several hours later, after the engine had cooled, I repeated the test. No 1 > started 100 degrees higher, 200, and spiked to 1770. At that point it > stabilized. A few minutes lated it went suddenly down to the normal 1200 and > stayed there for the rest of the taxi. > > I called JPI and they said that the only possible engine problem would be > some form of detonation which would show on the CHT at hte same time. Since > nothing had they thought I had some electrical interference somewhere that > the wire from the probe was picking up.Possible from a strobe. > > How can this be traced and solved? > > Steve > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8vd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Ron... Tha flasher is electronic... I am not flying yet, but another builder here has the same thing in his -8 and should be flying this month... I will let you know how his works... -Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald A. Cox Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01 > > Hey John... > > Check out the wig-wag circuit I have in my -8A... > > http://vondane.com/rv8a/wiring/dwg/HTML/n8vd_wdwg_r4_frame.htm - DWG3 - > Landing Light Circuit... > > -Bill VonDane > Colorado Springs, CO > RV-8A - N8VD - Finish > http://vondane.com/rv8a/ Nice site, Bill: With the mechanical flasher, do you notice any radio noise issues? Thanks, Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew Seefried" <seefried(at)oberon.ark.com>
Subject: My Worst Fears
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Bob, I, for one, sincerely appreciate all the very informative electrical info on this list and in the Aeroelectric book. It has made possible the systematic and accurate wiring of my project. I sincerely hope to learn more from here in the future. Andrew, - completing Glasair III, west coast, Canada. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Banks" <b2banks(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 12, 2001
First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt was in a local Washington DC bookstore on one occasion. A man came into the bookstore and made a comment to the clerk at the front of the store. "Who is that ugly women over there reading?" Of course the Clerk knew who Eleanor was and since she was close enough to the front of the store, the clerk was concerned that Mrs. Roosevelt had heard the comment. The clerk apologizing for the man was amazed at Eleanor's lack of response to this uncouth statement. When asked, The First Lady responded " I did not give him permission to offend me" My point? Think about it! The Banks Brothers, Bruce (Bob we appreciate your efforts here and respect yours and others opinions) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: 11SEPTEMBER2001
Date: Sep 12, 2001
Bob: (publish this at your pleasure) First, let me say what disbelief met the tragic events of yesterday and what terrible consequences were visitted on the workers of lower Manhattan and the Pentagon. I know I am joined by fellow Canadians in sending condolences to you and your countrymen. That you might wax rhetorical on future events is understandable given the effect these travesties will no doubt have on personal flight and on our hobby. I hope you will ignore the crudities flung at you in a particularly political moment. Please do not let it have an effect on the net. If it's any solace, we say, "In America, the people hate the government. In Canada, the government hates the people". KIndest regards, Ferg Europa #A064 P.S: Am I the only one getting quote marks from JAnderson with bags of "" in them? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: Wes K <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Crimper
Bill, I have a very effective AMP heavy crimper for the 6, 4, 2 & 0 crimps I use in the shop. i paid $129 for it. Compound action unit gives the proper square sgaped crimp. The nicopress units give an oval sahped crimp and would not measure up to the terminal manufacture's recommende finished crimp dimensions. On the issues from the last post. I hope Bob hangs there with all of us. I really care very little what anyone's political opinions are when we are not in a political arena and generally ignore them in this type forum. The bashings in the last digest were in very bad taste. I personnaly am not offended by anyone's political beliefs however there is a certain decorem that should be followed here. I see two parties using unneccessary fowl language that do need to apoligize to this list so at least the air may be cleared. Wes K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
Date: Sep 13, 2001
I do hope you good folk are keeping true to the subject line as any message with the above subject I automaticly delete. I'd hate to miss good electical black magic. Kind wish to all. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 09/11/01
Date: Sep 13, 2001
"Bill VonDane" wrote. Tha flasher is electronic... An automotive type Bill? Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wig-Wag circuit
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Thanks Bob, how will version 5 differ. John A. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <NUCKOLLS(at)AEROELECTRIC.COM> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wig-Wag circuit Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:16:31 -0500 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Listers, Anyone have a simple circuit for wig - wagging the landing lights? There are 4 options shown in diagrams listed at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html and per a reader request, I'm working on a 5th which I hope to get around to one of these days. Bob . .. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: scanner temp spike
Date: Sep 13, 2001
5 x 5 ----Original Message Follows---- From: "SBooska" <BOOS1(at)IX.NETCOM.COM> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: scanner temp spike Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:49:11 -0700 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SBooska" test ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 11SEPTEMBER2001
----------snip----------------- >KIndest regards, >Ferg Europa #A064 >P.S: Am I the only one getting quote marks from JAnderson with bags of >"" in them? You are not alone! I'm deleting John's messages because the HTML(?) baloney is such a mess. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Forum
Bernie, No big deal? Are you on Crack? Did you tune in a Spielberg movie on HBO or something? I'm so glad you have the ability to live such a sheltered life that you can displace yourself from the magnitude of these events. Jim Duckett, Captain GFFD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric web site . . .
Well Lads - I just tried to gain access to the AEC web site and - no joy. Hopefully it's just down temporarily. I dearly hope that the recent "unpleasantness" on this list has not cost us the greatest single asset we homebuilders ever had. Bill P.S. I first discovered the "Canadian Commentary/Tribute To The United States" (which is now making the email rounds) on Bob's web site. He's a most generous and interesting cat, and if I never get to hear from him again it'll be a pity. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 11SEPTEMBER2001
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Hey guys, give me a steer here, I only seem to be having this problem with the list replise?? I've been into options and turned off the .. ies. I'm on a hot mail system so perhaps that's it? Did anyone get my request about wire veres carbon HT leads or was it all gibrish? If this ain't better I'll get a couple of flags! John A. From: William Mills <COURIERBOY(at)EARTHLINK.NET> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 11SEPTEMBER2001 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:14:35 -0600 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: William Mills ----------snip----------------- KIndest regards, Ferg Europa #A064 P.S: Am I the only one getting quote marks from JAnderson with bags of " " in them? You are not alone! I'm deleting John's messages because the HTML(?) baloney is such a mess. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Melvinke(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
I agree with the proposal to block any further rantings by this idiot Ivey. He has no finesse and abuses this medium and those of us who appreciate it. but after all, he is a lawyer, and a Floridian to boot! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 09/12/01
Date: Sep 13, 2001
>>I vote we ALL stay on the list and change the subject. Before Sept 11 all of us email pugilists got along fine. Now we're like kids playing "got you last".<< Well said. I have a concern - I have been listening to the proposed "restrictions" on airline travel that I predict will cripple the industry (Midway Airlines is already on the verge of bankruptcy, it seems). It would seem that General Aviation is coming out unscathed, but what if our fearless(?) leaders don't see it that way. What will our wonderful free skies be like next year? I'll bet it will be forever different - and not better. We need to work together to keep our freedoms and not let one disaster take them away. Gary Casey Lancair ES that I hope to fly one day ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Diesels?
Date: Sep 13, 2001
I have opted for a Wilksch diesel. It is inverted inline 3cyl with turbo-compressor which can use both diesel and turbo fuel. The reasons are: 1 I believe that the industry (perhaps at government urging) will abandon highoctane product within ten years. There are indications rumbling already; 2 Diesel fuel carries more energy per unit volume than 100LL; 3 Compression-ignition negates a usual ignition system and its complications; 4 Thus much ignition-caused signal noise is eliminated; 5 Carburettors disappear with all their complex settings; 6 Similarly carb icing is gone; 7 An inline inverted form of engine in my case allows for a 2-inch higher prop centreline which in turn allows for a 2-inch larger prop with a 1-inch greater prop clearance; 8 Diesels are considered reliable, and predominate north of 60; 9 Two-stroke diesels are more efficient in fuel use; 10 Narrower width may give better frontal efficiency; 11 Diesel may make use of turbofuel availablity (increasing); 12 Metallurgy has lightened diesel design; 13 Graham reports the tested unit is smooth as a 6-cyl gas equivalent; 14 Diesel runs more coolly (especially with turbo exhaust) than gas; 15 Ghoulish as it may seem, I prefer diesel dripping (higher flashpoint) after a prang; 16 Diesels don't need speed reducers - they run at prop speeds: 17 No need for spark plug continuous replacement; 18 see 9 above - Kinder to the environment; 19 see 9 above - less concern over Carbon Monoxide infiltration. There are three major disadvantages as I see it: 1 You can smell a diesel leak from the other shore; 2 Diesel fuel injectors are notoriously susceptible to water, or aerated fuel; 3 Weight penalties mean less gas with passengers, but the wife can only stand 2-1/2 hours anyway. In spite of my decision, I invite rebuttal, debate or help whencever it comes. Cheers, Ferg Europa #A064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: Tom Hutchison <thutchis(at)umesd.k12.or.us>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 09/12/01
EVERYONE! PLEASE take your politics somewhere else. There are lots of forums dedicated to political topics where everyone can vent their views and frustrations. Can't we just talk about aircraft electrical systems. PLEASE!!! Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Multimeter useage
Date: Sep 13, 2001
I have one of Bob's multimeters and now I have to figure our how to use it. The instructions say to plug the leads into the right hole, turn the dial to the proper setting, place the leads in the propoer place and read the display.....not very helpful. I have figured out how to measure voltage...just place the leads in line but I have no clue how to measure resistance or actual amerage being used by something. How do you do this. For example, there is no data with my facet puel pump and i would like to know how many amps it draws so i can input this into my load analysis. Thanks, Ross RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Use of computer power supply
Date: Sep 13, 2001
I have a 200 watt filtered power supply from a an old computer. It says the yellow wires output 12 volts. Can I use this power for my bench testing? Can I hook it directly to a 12 volt 4.5 amp battery I am using for portable power to charge it....attended of course? Ross Mickey RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Keeping our Freedom
Date: Sep 13, 2001
...well said, and I think one of the best ways to do something about it is to support EAA and AOPA, not to mention a lot of other worthy organizations that support general aviation. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, Finish Kit O-360, Hartzell C/S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:04 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 09/12/01 > > >>I vote we ALL stay on the list and change the subject. > Before Sept 11 all of us email pugilists got along fine. > Now we're like kids playing "got you last".<< > > Well said. I have a concern - I have been listening to the proposed > "restrictions" on airline travel that I predict will cripple the industry > (Midway Airlines is already on the verge of bankruptcy, it seems). It would > seem that General Aviation is coming out unscathed, but what if our > fearless(?) leaders don't see it that way. What will our wonderful free > skies be like next year? I'll bet it will be forever different - and not > better. We need to work together to keep our freedoms and not let one > disaster take them away. > > Gary Casey > Lancair ES that I hope to fly one day > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)home.com>
Subject: HTML
Date: Sep 13, 2001
John I'm no expert here, but here's what I think you need to do, IF your are using Outlook Express: Go to the TOOLS menu, then OPTIONS, then the SEND tab. Down at the bottom, you need to select PLAIN TEXT instead of HTML in two places. If you are not in Outlook Express, you still need to get to plain text instead of HTML. Anyone who knows what they are doing here please chime in. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 2:20 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 11SEPTEMBER2001 > > > Hey guys, give me a steer here, I only seem to be having this problem with the list replise?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Multimeter useage
Date: Sep 13, 2001
E=IR If I remember. Measure any 2 and you can figure the 3rd. Measure your Voltage which is approximately 14 volts. Measure the resistance of your pump without being powered. The calculated Current will be 14 divided by the resistance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter useage I have one of Bob's multimeters and now I have to figure our how to use it. The instructions say to plug the leads into the right hole, turn the dial to the proper setting, place the leads in the propoer place and read the display.....not very helpful. I have figured out how to measure voltage...just place the leads in line but I have no clue how to measure resistance or actual amerage being used by something. How do you do this. For example, there is no data with my facet puel pump and i would like to know how many amps it draws so i can input this into my load analysis. Thanks, Ross RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Multimeter useage
Date: Sep 13, 2001
The DC resistance of a non-running motor will not reflect the motor's resistance while running. To measure current draw either use a low range clamp on amp meter on the power lead (most people don't have access to one of these), or use a very low ohm resistor (1/2 ohm or so) in series with the power lead. Measure the voltage drop across the resistor with the motor running to calculate the current draw. For example, a one volt drop across the resistor would equate to a 2 amp pump current draw (V=I*R). This is exactly how your amp meter works when using a battery shunt. The lower the resistor value, the more accurate the measurement as the lower voltage drop will have less affect on the running motor. The value selected is limited by your meter's ability to measure small voltages. Resistive loads can be estimated by measuring the DC resistance (lights, pitot heat, etc.) but these will also change from start up to run conditions. For example, the pitot heat element's resistance increases as it gets hot (increased resistance equates to decrease current draw). Carl Froehlich RV-8A (move to the hanger next month) Vienna, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter useage > > E=IR If I remember. Measure any 2 and you can figure the 3rd. Measure your > Voltage which is approximately 14 volts. Measure the resistance of your pump > without being powered. The calculated Current will be 14 divided by the > resistance. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:40 AM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter useage > > > I have one of Bob's multimeters and now I have to figure our how to use it. > The instructions say to plug the leads into the right hole, turn the dial to > the proper setting, place the leads in the propoer place and read the > display.....not very helpful. I have figured out how to measure > voltage...just place the leads in line but I have no clue how to measure > resistance or actual amerage being used by something. How do you do this. > For example, there is no data with my facet puel pump and i would like to > know how many amps it draws so i can input this into my load analysis. > > Thanks, > > Ross > RV6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Multimeter useage
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Good advice, to measure only voltage and resistance and calculate amperage. Simpler yet, assume that you know the voltage is 14 volts in you aircraft. You measure voltage as the difference in "potential" between any two points in a circuit, so the power must be turned on. Measure voltage by placing one lead (probe) on each side of the load. The simplest example is checking battery voltage by putting the red probe on the plus terminal and the black on the negative. Use the same scheme for any device in the circuit, but you can substitute any ground wire or terminal for the negative side of the battery. Some multimeters can automatically sense polarity making it unnecessary for you to pay attention to the placement of the black and red leads. Resistance is likewise measured by putting one probe (polarity is not important) on each side of the device being checked, but if the device is installed in a circuit you may be measuring the circuit's resistance so it is usually necessary to remove the device from the circuit in order to measure resistance correctly. Avoid checking resistance in a "live" circuit because you may feed power to the ohmmeter. Measuring amps can be a bit tricky because the circuit must be operating in order to make the measurement making it essential to exercise care about where you put the probes. Be aware that the meter movement is measuring voltage even when measuring amps. How so? The multimeter includes an internal shunt when operating as an ammeter, and this shunt is very low resistance, so low that we might as well call it a short circuit, which is exactly what you will have if you insert the ammeter into the circuit incorrectly. This makes mistakes rather exciting if the voltage is higher, as it is in household circuits. The meter measures the voltage drop across the shunt, magically calculates volts divided by ohms (the known resistance of the shunt) and reports the result as current (amps). Remember that to measure amps directly (as opposed to calculating amps from Ohm's law) the meter must be in series with the load. That is, you must open one lead in the circuit and insert the meter across the "gap" you opened. Any attempt to measure amps the same way you would measure volts will create a short circuit. Zap! A blown fuse or tripped breaker is the result of this mistake, accompanied by sparks at higher voltages. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear (airframe complete, FF and panel not started) Irvine, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter useage > > E=IR If I remember. Measure any 2 and you can figure the 3rd. Measure your > Voltage which is approximately 14 volts. Measure the resistance of your pump > without being powered. The calculated Current will be 14 divided by the > resistance. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:40 AM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Multimeter useage > > > I have one of Bob's multimeters and now I have to figure our how to use it. > The instructions say to plug the leads into the right hole, turn the dial to > the proper setting, place the leads in the propoer place and read the > display.....not very helpful. I have figured out how to measure > voltage...just place the leads in line but I have no clue how to measure > resistance or actual amerage being used by something. How do you do this. > For example, there is no data with my facet puel pump and i would like to > know how many amps it draws so i can input this into my load analysis. > > Thanks, > > Ross > RV6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Pittman" <SPITTMAN(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Red Cross
Date: Sep 13, 2001
A friend sent me this link this morning. It is an Amazon.com site for making donations to the Red Cross. It is a immediate and effective way to help the folks in DC and New York. Over one million has been donated since I contributed at 9AM. We can all help. http://www.amazon.com/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX Scott Pittman RV-4 FT. Lauderdale, Fla. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Subject: Re: MY WORST FEARS HAVE COME TO PASS . . .
From: Harold J Kovac <hjk33(at)juno.com>
Why not do as the Chinese do, Block internet sites, and then maybe we can have a nice book burning ala the Nazis. Lets get real and leave politics out of this mess. Now we should pull together and stop butting heads( or Mouths )All the political criticisms are not needed now. ENOUGH ALREADY. Harold Kovac ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Diesels?
Date: Sep 14, 2001
Fergus, in the disadvantages list you forgot vibration and torsional vibs. IMHO a 3 cylinder engine is bad for T/vibration and a diesel would offer big challenges in this area. John A. "Fergus Kyle" wrote: Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com To: "engines" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diesels? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:11:23 -0400 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" I have opted for a Wilksch diesel. It is inverted inline 3cyl with turbo-compressor which can use both diesel and turbo fuel. The reasons are: 1 I believe that the industry (perhaps at government urging) will abandon highoctane product within ten years. There are indications rumbling already; 2 Diesel fuel carries more energy per unit volume than 100LL; 3 Compression-ignition negates a usual ignition system and its complications; 4 Thus much ignition-caused signal noise is eliminated; 5 Carburettors disappear with all their complex settings; 6 Similarly carb icing is gone; 7 An inline inverted form of engine in my case allows for a 2-inch higher prop centreline which in turn allows for a 2-inch larger prop with a 1-inch greater prop clearance; 8 Diesels are considered reliable, and predominate north of 60; 9 Two-stroke diesels are more efficient in fuel use; 10 Narrower width may give better frontal efficiency; 11 Diesel may make use of turbofuel availablity (increasing); 12 Metallurgy has lightened diesel design; 13 Graham reports the tested unit is smooth as a 6-cyl gas equivalent; 14 Diesel runs more coolly (especially with turbo exhaust) than gas; 15 Ghoulish as it may seem, I prefer diesel dripping (higher flashpoint) after a prang; 16 Diesels don't need speed reducers - they run at prop speeds: 17 No need for spark plug continuous replacement; 18 see 9 above - Kinder to the environment; 19 see 9 above - less concern over Carbon Monoxide infiltration. There are three major disadvantages as I see it: 1 You can smell a diesel leak from the other shore; 2 Diesel fuel injectors are notoriously susceptible to water, or aerated fuel; 3 Weight penalties mean less gas with passengers, but the wife can only stand 2-1/2 hours anyway. In spite of my decision, I invite rebuttal, debate or help whencever it comes. Cheers, Ferg Europa #A064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Diesels?
> > > >Fergus, in the disadvantages list you forgot vibration and torsional vibs. > >IMHO a 3 cylinder engine is bad for T/vibration and a diesel would offer >big challenges in this area. > >John A. I did a very short first flight with this engine, up to 10 feet than down again, it was a foggy day and Mark Wilksch was desperate to fly in the old millennium. (don't ask me why know) The engine was very smooth, much smoother than a Lyconental, more like a straight Six. It has a separate balance shaft. Lots of torque too, Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"Mark Langford $Deere PM alternator$" , "plugsup/flyrotary" , "rotary engine e-mail list" , "RV-list" , "Mike Wills"
Subject: Permanent magnet Alternators (more, bigger John Deere
models than the 20 amp previously reported)
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Ref: 28 Nov 00 posting of info on John Deere 20 amp permanent magnet alternator in Mark Langford's KR-2; Mike Wills' e-mail to flyrotary list on Dec 21, 00 re same info. I visited my local John Deere dealer last April to try to identify all PM alternators - only did half the job. Returned today and found them not busy so was able to get the following info (no cost, no weight - they lost their internet link before we got the cost; haven't found a place to get the weight info yet): 20 amp As reported in above refs (http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html) P/N AM877557, regulator AM101406; 4 lbs. (used on model 670 lawn tractor - any x70 model) 35 amp (almost double) Same device, with internal changes, P/N AM877957 - uses same regulator, AM101406; 4 lbs? (same lawn tractor?) 55 amps P/N AL81436, regulator P/N AL65077 (flat pack on back of alternator body, typical) (used on 6400L and 6500L tractors. L "lights" for running at night) 85 amps P/N AL81437, regulator P/N AL65077 - has overvoltage protection [NOTE: same p/n as 55 amp above] & P/N AL78690, regulator P/N AL______(forgot to get p/n - is listed as part for 6400 series tractor) - NO overvoltage protection. (used on 6400 series tractors) As far as we could tell by a check of all tractor models, all the other tractors use standard alternators with no separate regulator listed, implying they have internal regulators and are not PM alternators. I will be checking further to get weights and prices of alternators and their associated regulators. David Carter RV-6 QB (wiring external lights - 1st electrical work on the airplane) Nederland, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Dynamo
Dave, Did you happen to spy any manufactures tag on the dynamo and regulator? From dealing with anything painted green or having a deer on it, I know it's generally half again in price to what we can get it for from other suppliers. I do know that Deere does make some of their own stuff now but, like with the ND alternator, most of their electrical is bid out. As an example a Leach-Neville 130 A alternator lists for @ $450.00 from J.D.. We buy them direct for @ $160.00 Just wondering....? On a simular note, I've been toying with the idea of trying to mount the "Fly-Ring" alternator from a Briggs & Stratton industrial and see if I can make it work. The magnets (field) are in a ring and mount to the flywheel and the armature is stationary. 35 Amps and weighs @4 pounds too. Works great on their industrial engines. Jim Duckett RV-7A N708JD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Failure to contact nuckolls@aeroel..........
Date: Sep 13, 2001
Bob: This has happened twice today and once yesterday. One was address from my memory list and one double-poked from your website. Cheers Ferg from tomts12.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.56] ----- The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: No route to host Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Dynamo
Date: Sep 13, 2001
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Duckett" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:27 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynamo > > Dave, > Did you happen to spy any manufactures tag on the dynamo and regulator? > From dealing with anything painted green or having a deer on it, I know > it's generally half again in price to what we can get it for from other > suppliers. I do know that Deere does make some of their own stuff now > but, like with the ND alternator, most of their electrical is bid out. > As an example a Leach-Neville 130 A alternator lists for @ $450.00 from > J.D.. We buy them direct for @ $160.00 > Just wondering....? > On a simular note, I've been toying with the idea of trying to mount the > "Fly-Ring" alternator from a Briggs & Stratton industrial and see if I > can make it work. The magnets (field) are in a ring and mount to the > flywheel and the armature is stationary. 35 Amps and weighs @4 pounds > too. Works great on their industrial engines. > > Jim Duckett RV-7A N708JD > Jim, 1) I didn't see any hardware; was just copying basic info off a computer screen. Will let you know when I find out. 2) About using the flywheel to generate electricity - don't see why that isn't done more; it would eliminate the belt drive for a critical accessory. David ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2001
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to contact
nuckolls@aeroel.......... Word up is that Bob had some trouble with his website/ISP and is using a different email address for the time being. Since I know how he feels (!) I thought I'd pass on his temporary address. It is: nuckolls(at)kscable.com He's on the aeroelectric-list, so I'm sure he'll speak up for himself at some point. FYI Matt Dralle At 08:31 PM 9/13/01 Thursday, you wrote: > >Bob: > This has happened twice today and once yesterday. > One was address from my memory list and one double-poked from >your website. >Cheers Ferg > >from tomts12.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.56] > > ----- The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >... Deferred: No route to host >Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours >Will keep trying until message is 5 days old" > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: Dynamo
Date: Sep 14, 2001
Regarding permanent magnet alternators: As far as I know there are three ways to regulate the voltage: 1. Use the battery. In other words, don't regulate it at all and hope the battery will tolerate the overcharging that usually happens. A lot of small engines use this method. Cheap and simple, but not workable for variable loads. 2. Use a "parallel" regulator that shorts out the output when the battery voltage is high enough. Wastes a lot of energy and creates current pulsations and transients. Some of the medium-output systems use this, like in smaller outboard motors. Creates EMI problems. The high heat dissipation in the regulator limits its use to maybe 5 or 10 amps output. 3. Use a "series" regulator that opens the output when the battery voltage is high enough. This is quite efficient, but creates large voltage transients on the alternator side and large current fluctuations on the battery side. Creates big EMI problems. The voltages in the alternator can be in the hundreds of volts. This has been used on big outboard motors up to maybe 30 amps. None of the above methods seem to be particularly attractive for aircraft use, but the light weight and good efficiency of the PM alternator make it tempting. Any comments? Gary Casey Lancair ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 09/13/01
Date: Sep 14, 2001
>>In spite of my decision, I invite rebuttal, debate or help<< I agree with your evaluation - the 2-stroke diesel has a lot to offer. The 3-cylinder is a natural for a 2-stroke because of the relative timing of the exhaust pulses. The in-line is a good, strong arrangement compared to a horizontally opposed engine with its flimsy crankshaft. I don't know the details of this engine, but I assume it is piston-ported, which cuts down on the height (depth, I guess as it is inverted). The crank is short and stiff, so torsional resonant frequencies should be no problem, except maybe for the prop. The torsional pulsation frequency is the same as for a 6-cylinder 4-stroke engine so it should be relatively smooth - but not as smooth as a gasoline engine. HOWEVER: 1. The cylinder pressures will be almost twice that of a gasoline engine. Weight of the structure is THE problem. 2. A 3 cylinder engine has a relatively large primary pitching couple. You either have to live with the vibration, try to use soft mounts to isolate it, or add a balance shaft at an even bigger weight penalty. 4. Durability is a problem for the piston and rings where they go over the exhaust port. Oil consumption is an issue, but not much of one. 5. Fuel consumption will be higher than for a 4-stroke diesel engine (ask Detroit Diesel) and not that far removed from a lean-running gasoline engine as measured in pounds. Diesel fuel is heavier than gasoline so you can get more pounds in a given size tank. 6. A highly-boosted engine, necessary for good power/weight, will have a low compression ratio, making starting difficult. Needs a big starter and a big battery, adding more weight. Good luck. One of these days we will have a good diesel light aircraft engine. HOLD EVERYTHING! DIESEL? ISN'T THAT ANTI-ELECTRIC? THIS SHOULD BE IN THE ENGINE LIST! Gary Casey Diesel buff from way back Lancair ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com>
Subject: Dynamo
Date: Sep 14, 2001
> 2) About using the flywheel to generate electricity - don't > see why that > isn't done more; it would eliminate the belt drive for a > critical accessory. > > David > > > Check out the engines at http://www.jabiru.net.au They apparently use magnets on the flywheel for both the ignition and the alternator. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RE: Wilksch diesel
Date: Sep 14, 2001
slightly off topic (only electric bits are the heater plugs and alternator) but I thought it might be of interest: this is a piece I wrote for a car magazine last year. the Wilksch diesel aircraft engine. The majority of piston aircraft engines are so archaic it would make any automotive engineer choke on his beer before falling on the ground in hysterics. Pushrod operated valve trains, magneto ignition, updraft carburettors, complicated (and expensive when you get it wrong) handling regimes - but they are stone reliable, pounding away for hour after hour, burning copious amounts of the only leaded fuel left in the world. Fuel is the driving force behind the next generation of reciprocation internal combustion aircraft engines. The end is clearly in sight - if a little way off yet - for gasoline fuelled engines. On the other hand, JetA1 Avtur - kerosene, diesel, heating oil are all part of the same family - is already more widely available throughout the world, and has far better potential in terms of producing it from renewable resources: all those yellow fields of rapeseed that you pass is an excellent raw material for biodiesel. Diesels run lean all the time - this and the high compression ratios are the reason that they are so efficient - Whereas large air-cooled aircraft engines have to run rich, wasting fuel for nothing more than cooling. They truly are the last dinosaurs of the petrol engine age, and long overdue for retirement to a museum. The race is on for the next generation of light aircraft engines - up to around 400 bhp, where gas turbine engines become cost effective. The aircraft engine heavyweights - Continental and Lycoming - have entered the fray , as have Renault, but they are concentrating on the 200+ bhp market. A plethora of smaller (and much nimbler) firms are also in the race and leading the pack is Wilksch Airmotive. Led by an ex- Cosworth engineer called Mark Wilksch, he may be the front man and the public face, but he is at pains to point out that he is part of a team: Keith Duckworth and Mike Costin may have been the public face of Cosworth, but Ben Rood was an integral and essential part of the team, pioneering innovative production techniques. At Wilksch Airmotive, Martin Long - also ex- Cosworth - displays the same talents and is responsible for detail drawing, assembly, and testing. He's a perfect foil for Wilksch.. There are various other people involved such as Phil Franklin, a very experienced diesel engine engineer, but most noteworthy is Mike Costin himself: he clearly considers Wilksch to be something of a protg and in turn is considered to be a valuable technical sounding board, with an encyclopaedic knowledge of problems and solutions. "A very wide ranging mind." Is Costin's verdict of Wilksch. The production prototype Wilksch is an inverted in line 3 cylinder engine, rather like a DH Gypsy (Tiger Moth) engine in configuration, although the resemblance from then on is purely superficial. It can be extended to an in line 4 (or even 200 bhp 5) cylinder engine: a 160 hp four is planned, although there is a possibility that it may end up as a conventional flat four, with a 260 hp flat 6 under consideration as well. There is also the promise that significantly more powerful versions of each engine will also be available as development progresses, an intercooler equipped version of the triple being targeted for a reliable 150 bhp. The basic operating principal is 2 stroke, although any similarity to your lawnmower or even a microlight engine is minimal: the cylinders are force fed (more on that later) with full circumference inlet ports, but the exhaust is via multiple poppet valves. An under head cam operates the valves at engine speed through a low maintenance valve train. With no crankcase induction, the "bottom end" (or is it top?) is a pressure fed wet sump set-up like most 4 strokes, removing any threat of an oily exhaust or the need for troublesome needle roller small ends. The sump is effectively the cam cover, so the bits that suffer the highest start up stresses are permanently bathed in oil. Poor cam and follower start up lubrication is a bugbear on many aircraft engines, and often precipitates premature overhauls. Surprisingly, considering the number of inverted in line engines produced over the years, this is the first wet sump equipped type: Wilksch quite happily accedes that almost everything in the engine has been done before, but not, as he points out, in this particular combination. In fact there are several innovations - the wet sump being just one - that marks the engine out as being a clever bit of design. The crankshaft and con-rods look astonishingly beefy: Truck sized journals (I kid you not) belie the relatively light weight of the crank, courtesy of hollow main and crank pins. Currently tipping the scales at 110kg, when the bugs are ironed out of the prototype and the final patterns are produced, it should be 10% lighter. The piston rod connection is interesting in that rather than employ conventional gudgeon pins, a ball end is formed on the end of the rod and captured by a spherical bearing clipped into the piston: In practice, the piston turns randomly whilst it's running. This has the effect of spreading the wear over the entire skirt of the piston, rather than a line contact perpendicular to the connecting pin. It also means that there's no possibility of oil leaking past the bores after shut-down with a smoky start to follow: the amount of oil floating around the system during operation is considerably less than required to fill up three pistons. Built into the bottom end are a pair of contra rotating balance shafts - which double up as the cam and fuel pump drives: with twice as many power pulses per crank rotation as a 4 stroke, the engine is inherently smooth anyway - a 3 cylinder feels like a 6 - but defeating the secondary out of balance forces makes it incredibly smooth, with positive consequences for pilot fatigue and airframe components life. The induction system is fairly conventional up to a point: the fuel injection system is standard technology, with the air side taken care of by a simple turbocharger: no wastegate is fitted, the turbo being closely matched to the engine's needs: as you climb higher, the faster the turbo spins to maintain manifold pressure. The fuel injection pump has been developed by Wilksch from existing automotive rotary pump technology. The only electric bits are a starter, alternator and glow plugs, in the interests of reliability. Where it does diverge from the norm is a special supercharger is also fitted to the system. Known as a Stosic blower, a driven 2 lobe screw turns a 3 lobe screw in a figure of eight housing: it consumes next to no power when the turbocharger takes over. For all but starting and descent operations (throttle shut, engine being driven by the prop) the turbo will maintain enough manifold pressure to keep the fires alight, but in those specific circumstances, it does need positive pressure for reliable operation. It's interesting that the performance figures quoted are quite conservative: Indeed, power itself isn't a problem - the limiting factors are piston cooling (where a large percentage of the testing has been concentrated on) and durability. From the operators point of view, operating costs and maintenance requirements will be very much lower. In Europe at least - where avtur costs about 1/3rd that of Avgas - both total and direct operating costs will be substantially cheaper: Wilksch calculates that a 115 hp Lycoming - as fitted to Cessna 152's - costs nearly 24/hour, based on purchase price and fuel costs. The comparable figure for the Wilksch diesel is 9/hour. Wilksch are currently the front runners in the fastest expanding sector of the market - around the 100 hp+ level: all of the heavy competition is at 200 bhp and above. The engine combines the best of 2 and 4 stroke technology, and has been designed using up to the minute tools including FEA (Finite Element Analysis) computer modelling. The chances of a Wilksch finding its way into car isn't likely - but the technology, in terms of the piston/rod, and the blower, is a fair bet. A couple of automotive engine design bureaux are experimenting with 2 stroke diesel technology, the limiting barrier being gudgeon pin (and thence piston) distortion - the Wilksch solution being just the job. The blower offers better efficiency at a lower cost than current technology which is still based mainly on Rootes blower type designs. It's not often that aviation piston engine technology trickles down to the automotive world - it's usually the other way round. Captions: Engine schematic sequence: (1) Scavenge Piston uncovers inlet ports and fresh charge purges remaining hot exhaust gas from the cylinder. The "uniflow scavenging" ports also impart controlled swirl to the incoming air, assisting in the following combustion (2) Compression Exhaust valves close, and compression starts as soon as the inlet ports are covered. Port size means that the piston rings do not need pegging. (3) Combustion/ power At the critical moment, fuel is injected and spontaneously ignites: Swirl and turbulence ensures good combustion - which continues some way down the power stroke, typical of a diesel. (4) Exhaust Exhaust valves open, and a sonic wave of energy recharges the turbocharger turbine spinning at 100,000 rpm. Cylinder pressure drops to around that of the air plenum just before the ports open. The prototype 3 cylinder Wilksch in a Europa kitplane is the cutting edge of light aircraft technology. Able to take off and land from farmer's fields, it will cruise at altitude at nearly 200 mph with a fuel consumption approaching 50 mpg. That puts the South of France around 3 hours away for a fuel cost of around a tenner each return for 2 people. Engine installation: the cooling system is part of the engine -not an added on accessory. Engine operation is akin to that of a car - unlike most aircraft engines, with mixture and propeller controls, carb heat and primers, and complicated operating procedures. The blower screws: unlike Eaton superchargers which require gearing together, the male (2 lobe) drives the female (3 lobe) with very low losses. The very clever rotor geometry has been optimised by world renowned screw compressor expert Nikola Stosic, and the blower developed and jointly patented by Wilksch and London City University. Delivering a constant volume of air according to rpm, the in-line turbocharger boosts the manifold pressure according to demand. The spherical bearing piston connection - a 4 stroke piston in this case. Cheap to produce and exhibiting superior service life, it may become a standard fitment on a wide variety of engines. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to contact nuckolls
> > >Word up is that Bob had some trouble with his website/ISP and is using a >different email address for the time being. Since I know how he feels (!) >I thought I'd pass on his temporary address. It is: > > nuckolls(at)kscable.com > >He's on the aeroelectric-list, so I'm sure he'll speak up for himself at >some point. I've been out of contact for a few days. Our server got hacked followed in close sequence with some hardware issues. The website is back on the air as is our e-mail pop server at aeroelectric.com. I received a data dump on list activity for the past few days . . . I'd like to clear up some misconceptions I've noted. This is not "my" list . . . it belongs to Matt and exists at his pleasure and benevolence as do all other lists on his equipment. I (nor do any of the rest of us) have a right to be her but rather a privilege that is graciously afforded us at little or no expense. The name was chosen in order to capitalize on what ever name recognition my work has developed over the years to accurately describe the flavor of discussions found here. Should some untimely hazard befall me, I would sincerely hope this list continues under the tutelage of those who have studied with us to advance our art and craft. I've learned more about building airplanes working on amateur built machines than I ever did from my activities at the factories. In fact, a task before me in the next few weeks is to take some of the concepts developed on homebuilts to the managers of some certified aircraft programs to see if they can grasp an understanding of the vision we have all developed here. In notes on the list and sent to me directly, there are some who believe that I abandoned my list activities of about a year ago due to pressure from some who were upset that I did not have a secure website and other issues. The facts are that I was subscribed to about 10 different list servers wherein the messages concerning things I could help with were probably 10-20% of the traffic. I found myself spending too much time searching out issues in my field of study from a dump of 200-300 messages per day. Whittling down the task to a single service was a simple move to improve the efficiency of application of my time. It was an expensive move in that all of the other lists were a powerful promotional tool for my weekend seminar activities. The last three programs barely broke even for attendance. This problem combined with what promises to be a nightmarish (and undoubtedly more expensive) experience to travel around the country puts the seminar programs under careful evaluation for return on investment. Another misconception is that I got out of the parts business because of the hassles from disgruntled customers. In fact, the business got too big. If I was going to continue my education with activities on the heavy iron, publishing and list server discussions, something had to give. While a super way to generate cash flow, I'm not cut out to be a merchant and Dee is busy working on her doctorate . . . the best course of action was to transfer our amateur airplane builder parts support to someone who was already in that business. Hence, the transfer of our parts business to B&C last January. I've had a generous and heartwarming outpouring of support from many via direct email. Most were worried about me taking a beating and giving up. Nobody needs to worry on that regard. Like the inimitable Mrs. Roosevelt spoken of earlier this week, there are very few people who have my permission to intimidate or insult me. In light of the past week's events, I have identified a couple of urgent tasks that I'm going to concentrate on . . . thought I would be done by now but not yet. My regular e-mail service is up and running . . . I'll be moving my AeroElectric List activity back to that address . . . and I'll keep all of the list-server messages wherein I can offer constructive responses. To quote another figure from our country's past: "I shall return". Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)
Subject: Re: Dynamo
> On a simular note, I've been toying with the idea of trying to mount the > "Fly-Ring" alternator from a Briggs & Stratton industrial and see if I > can make it work. The magnets (field) are in a ring and mount to the > flywheel and the armature is stationary. 35 Amps and weighs @4 pounds > too. Works great on their industrial engines. >2) About using the flywheel to generate electricity - don't see why that >isn't done more; it would eliminate the belt drive for a critical accessory. As I understand it, this is the design of the Jabiru engine alternators, which output 25 amps. (this is for the 8 cyl, not sure for the 4's & 6's) Very slick, mounted directly to the rear of the crank. A belt-drive alternator is an accessory, producing 50 amps. From the PossumWorks Mark > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Figure Z-8
Date: Sep 14, 2001
Bob, I am trying to get a deeper understanding of the reasons why you decided on using circuit breakers in your Z-8 arcitecure. Some questions. 1) For the 5 amp CB in the SD-8 wiring. Why didn't you use a fuselink or wire into a fused slot of the battery bus instead of taking up panel space for a 5 amp CB? 2) For the master switch. Why not use a 2-10 switch wiring the 1-2-3 between the battery contactor and ground and the 4-5-6 positions between a fused slot in the main bus and the voltage regulator? The switch would then be OFF-Battery Only-Battery and Alternator. Ross all electric 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to contact nuckolls
Date: Sep 15, 2001
WELL said Bob. John A. From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <NUCKOLLS(at)KSCABLE.COM> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Failure to contact nuckolls Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:55:27 -0500 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"aeroelectric-list"
Subject: magnet ring 20 amp internal alternator
Date: Sep 14, 2001
Hello, Great Plains Aircraft, Some of us home-builders are considering permanent magnet alternators. E-mail replies today pointed us to several engines using alternators on the flywheel for 20 to 30 amps for engine electrical power. You were one company mentioned that is already doing this. Checked your web site just now to see what you had on your internal alternator. I'm planning to use a Mazda RX-7 rotary engine (the 13B two rotor engine). The flywheel turns a bit faster than most piston engines, i.e., we are cruising around 5400 RPM, see 6000 to 6500 RPM at full throttle. That is nearly double what the VW engines turn. If your alternator hardware could be appropriately mounted to the automatic transmission flex plate (flywheel) that we use, do you think your particular hardware would stand up to the higher centrifugal loads associated with the higher RPM? - If the higher RPM is a problem, then perhaps we could consider mounting the alternator on the PSRU. Other than higher RPM, can you see any obvious reasons why your hardware could not be used on a different engine? David Carter Nederland, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"plugsup/flyrotary"
Subject: Ring magnet alternator-on-flywheel
Date: Sep 14, 2001
For Aeroelectric and plugsup/flyrotary list: Steve at Great Plains just called back and gave me info on his alternator: At his website, http://www.greatplainsas.com/pg26.ht you will find pictures of the flywhee, magnet ring, and the alternator stator windings that sit stationary inside the rotating magnet ring. Other things are also shown in the picture. (see diehl.jpg attachment from the website) His alternator stator is integrated into the Diehl assessory case which bolts on back (flywheel end) of the VW engine in a tractor configuration aircraft. Prop is driven off the other end (where generator pulley used to be). - Magnet ring is about 5" diameter (if my notes are correct ) and is mounted to flywheel by 4 1/4" bolts. He said any flywheel (or Mazda 13B flex plate) would need to be 1/4 inch thick to have appropriate strength for mounting. The stator is mounted to inside of Diehl accessory case and fits inside the magnet ring. The magnet and stator parts are about 1 or 1 1/4 inch thick and accessory case is about 1.5" thick (measured from face of flywheel). - Said more/bigger staor windings would be needed for more than 20 amps. (Jabiru only puts out 14 amps; 20 is the most he is aware of by any other system.) From his web page: "We introduced the moulded ceramic based Magnet Ring for the 20 AMP internal alternator. This state of the art magnet ring eliminated the problem associated with steel caps coming loose off magnet rings as was sold by other VW conversion companies. " For us 13B users, which has a PSRU attached over the flywheel, I'm not sure how much room is available for such an alternator. - I understand that Tracy Crook's PSRU is "open" so that flywheel/flexplate is visible and it would be simple for wires to access that area. - Tracy, is there room - or could room be made - for this or a re-packaged alternator to be bolted to the flexplate? The objective would be to have enough electrical power for at least the efi and electronic ignition. Thus, we would no longer be dependent on a belt driven alternator and back-up battery for critical engine functions. There would still be a need for a belt driven alternator for current needed in excess of 20 amps for comm-nav, landing lights, external nav & strobe lights, etc. David Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ring magnet alternator-on-flywheel
Go To http://www.compufire.com and check out the ring alternators there, for another option. Cheers, Warren. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dynamo
>2) About using the flywheel to generate electricity - don't see why that >isn't done more; it would eliminate the belt drive for a critical accessory. > >David It is, The Rotax 912/4 series of engines use it. Only gives about 18 amps though but it works. As a matter of interest, we put the AC though a transformer and got 400 cycle at the right voltage to drive an A/H . The frequency varies with rpm but it didn't seem to be a problem. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Sep 14, 2001
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Printing Labels on Wire...
Hello Listers, I've been pondering the impending electrical wiring of the 'ol RV-4 and it occurred to me that at some point in my 10-year building process someone showed me a nifty wire labeler that would allow you to put most any gauge of wire in one side and pull it completely through. The labeler would repeatedly print a string of text along the wire from one end to the other. I have no idea now where I saw this labeler or what it was called. Does anyone have any insight on this device? Thanks! Matt Dralle RV-4 / #1763 / N442RV -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Small minds discuss people... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2001
From: "J. Forster" <jfor(at)onemain.com>
rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Printing Labels on Wire...
They are thermal printers. I don't remember who makes them but it might be Allen Avionics. Try eBay. -John Matt Dralle wrote: > --> Avionics-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > > Hello Listers, > > I've been pondering the impending electrical wiring of the 'ol RV-4 and > it occurred to me that at some point in my 10-year building process someone > showed me a nifty wire labeler that would allow you to put most any > gauge of wire in one side and pull it completely through. The labeler > would repeatedly print a string of text along the wire from one end to the > other. I have no idea now where I saw this labeler or what it was > called. Does anyone have any insight on this device? > > Thanks! > > Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gaylen Lerohl" <lerohl@rea-alp.com>
, , ,
Subject: Re: Printing Labels on Wire...
Date: Sep 15, 2001
Listers: An inexpensive method is illustrated in our "How to" pages: http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page94.html. If you don't have a high temp heat gun an open flame works well too. I like to set a candle on the bench so I can use both hands to maneuver the wire. You might want to practice on some scrap first, especially if you are using wire insulated with material other than Tefzel. Regards, Gaylen Lerohl www.terminaltown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 19:06 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Printing Labels on Wire... Dralle) > > > Hello Listers, > > I've been pondering the impending electrical wiring of the 'ol RV-4 and > it occurred to me that at some point in my 10-year building process someone > showed me a nifty wire labeler that would allow you to put most any > gauge of wire in one side and pull it completely through. The labeler > would repeatedly print a string of text along the wire from one end to the > other. I have no idea now where I saw this labeler or what it was > called. Does anyone have any insight on this device? > > Thanks! > > Matt Dralle > RV-4 / #1763 / N442RV > > > -- > > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > Great minds discuss ideas, > Average minds discuss events, > Small minds discuss people... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2001
From: wx3o <wx3o(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Printing Labels on Wire...
Matt, My company uses a device as you described. It uses a tiny laser to write on the wire as it is pulled through. It is not a very large device. I'm sorry I don't know the name ot mfg. Best Regards, Mark Julicher taylorcraft list Matt Dralle wrote: > > Hello Listers, > > I've been pondering the impending electrical wiring of the 'ol RV-4 and > it occurred to me that at some point in my 10-year building process someone > showed me a nifty wire labeler that would allow you to put most any > gauge of wire in one side and pull it completely through. The labeler > would repeatedly print a string of text along the wire from one end to the > other. I have no idea now where I saw this labeler or what it was > called. Does anyone have any insight on this device? > > Thanks! > > Matt Dralle > RV-4 / #1763 / N442RV > > -- > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > Great minds discuss ideas, > Average minds discuss events, > Small minds discuss people... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"plugsup/flyrotary"
Subject: Motorcycle PM alternators on flywheel
Date: Sep 15, 2001
Charging Systems

July 30, 2001 - September 15, 2001

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ah