AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-am
December 01, 2001 - December 28, 2001
If it is critical, I think we find the current drain of each of the above.
James
RV6 ... Panel
Patty
RV6 ...Wingtips
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Holyoke
| Subject: | Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
I'm getting ready to engine my RV-6 and I'm trying to figure out how big
an alternator I'll need. I'll be running all electric with :
RC Allen horizon and DG, Navaid ap, EI ubg16, Matronics fuelscan,
Van's gauges for about everything else, KMD 150 gps, KX 165 and
indicator, and a transponder, 2 100watt landing lights (wigwag), whelen
comet flash strobes, pitot heat, dual lightspeed ignitions and electric
trim.
The documentation that I've got doesn't tell me what the power
consumption is on most of this stuff. I've tried to measure the amps on
a gyro with my multimeter and got nowhere.
Any ideas?
Ed Holyoke
RV-6 QB
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Listers,
Below are some of the comments I've received just this week alone from
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======== Some Great Comments on What The Lists Mean to its Members ==========
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- Larry D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca)" <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap control |
>
Rob....sorry I can't help by directly answering your questions.
However, that's why I said go see a Diamond Katana. They've
done this and if you find someone nice, should be able to help
with the details.
Mike
>
>
> I agree with your points here...
> but - What kind of switch? How to include indicator? Circuit design?
> These are the questions I have... as I already have a preference for a
> system similar to your thoughts.
> Robert
>
> Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca) wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Robert, here's something you might consider. It's a simplification (and in
my opinion,
> >an
> >improvement) on the Cessna system. A little more difficult to construct, but
elegantly
> >simple to use. I first saw this in a Diamond Katana, so find a local dealer
and check
> >it out.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | air/fuel indicators |
>>The manual says the meter cannot be used with leaded fuels.<<
The meter will work just fine - the sensor, though, will have a finite life
running on leaded fuel. However, I have heard reports that they will last
at least 200 hours and maybe more if protected from the direct exhaust
stream. At $35 each, maybe that's acceptable. Also, note the previous
response (excerpt below) that is correct:
> HOWEVER, apparently, leaded gasoline DOES contaminate the sensor to
> the point that it loses its ability to respond quickly enough to exhaust
> changes
> (milliseconds) to control an automobile Fuel management system (computer)
> and prevent
> those bad exhaust emissions. So for its intended purpose in an automobile
> (emissions control),
> it is essentially correct that leaded gas will degrade it. BUT, if you
> simply want to use an O2 sensor in your exhaust to provide and indication
of
> relative fuel mixture, it will work fine using 100 LL for hundreds of
hours.
Also, another question was posted:
>Would be interested in hearing of
> > anyone's experience with this or any similar o2
> > sensor/indicator system.
I don't know what JC Whitney sells, but I bought an Autometer unit from the
local PAW speed shop for about the same price and it works great. The
multi-LED display is a little more dramatic than it needs to be as one or
two LED's would tell about the same story. It is not dimmable and not
readable in direct sunlight. I have worked a little with the folks at
Autometer since they are our customer for pressure sensors. Good company
with high quality parts.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | flap position control |
>>I first saw this in a Diamond Katana, so find a local dealer and check
>it out.
>Flap switch is not a momentary contact switch like the days of old, but is
simply a 3
>position
>switch. Top position is cruise (flaps up), middle position is takeoff
flaps, bottom
>position is
>landing flaps.<<
I would like to do the same thing - I was thinking about a 3-position rotary
switch with an indicator light(s). Turn to the position you want, a light
comes on and then goes out when the flaps stop at that position. Anybody
got a clever circuit design that would do that without too much complexity?
Gary Casey
Lancair ES project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
I believe the FAA requirement is 80% of total load for power but if you look
at your devices, seldom will all be one at one time, especially the landing
lights if you are flying IFR. If the larger alternator doesn't have too big
a weight penalty then it might be ok, but energy management is the key.
Even with a 100 amp alternator you will not have enough charging capacity
for extended taxi with every thing on. Alternators do not put out their
rated capacity until you running the engine at cruise rpm so one must use
only what is needed. Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights
when landing? Pilot's can't see that light behind them.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
http://www.eaa.org for latest flying rules
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp?
Ed,
My partner and I are building an RV with a similr setup (without the
electric RC Allens)
Navaid AP
EI UBG
Van's Gauges
KMD 150 GPS
UPS SL40 (no indicator yet)
KT76A Transponder
2 100 watt lights
Whelen Strobes
No Pitot heat (yet)
Jeff Rose Electronic Ignition
Manual Trim
Turn Coordinator
Electronic Compass
Sony "Entertainment Subsystem" ;-) .
We started out **thinking** that a 35 AMP alternator would work ...I don't
think so!
There is a scenario where the above adds up to over 50 AMPS!
The more likely scenario can *probably* be covered with the 40. But even
though my partner says she will never fly it at night, IFR, in a storm, over
the mountains and that she KNOWS I won't either, we will most likely go with
the 60.
If it is critical, I think we find the current drain of each of the above.
James
RV6 ... Panel
Patty
RV6 ...Wingtips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Holyoke
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp?
I'm getting ready to engine my RV-6 and I'm trying to figure out how big
an alternator I'll need. I'll be running all electric with :
RC Allen horizon and DG, Navaid ap, EI ubg16, Matronics fuelscan,
Van's gauges for about everything else, KMD 150 gps, KX 165 and
indicator, and a transponder, 2 100watt landing lights (wigwag), whelen
comet flash strobes, pitot heat, dual lightspeed ignitions and electric
trim.
The documentation that I've got doesn't tell me what the power
consumption is on most of this stuff. I've tried to measure the amps on
a gyro with my multimeter and got nowhere.
Any ideas?
Ed Holyoke
RV-6 QB
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flap position for RV |
Having flown my RV for about 60 hours now, and have most of my time in
cessnas, I do not feel that I need stops in my flap deployment. Actually,
it would hinder things a little. RV's in crosswinds can be tricky and
sometimes you need to slow down a little bit, but don't want much flaps. I
frequently use many different flap settings. It became a seat of the pants
type of flying real quick. I have an indicator on the panel, but most of
the time just look at the airspeed indicator and sometimes the flap itself
and see where it is when I deploy it.
You are creating too much work for yourself, in my opinion. RV's are so
much more precise flying machines than Cessna aircraft and it is difficult
to compare the two when considering flap deployment and other
characteristics. Just put as much flaps in as you need to get your proper
speeds relative to your flying conidtions.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | EDO-AIRE RT-553 repair/parts |
I'm trying to repair an EDO-AIRE RT-553 NAV/COM radio for a friend.
Does anyone know where to get parts for these?
I think I've traced it to a chip in the synthesizer: F 95H04DC (I assume
an IC by Fairchild). Haven't been able to find it in any databook.
Anybody know what it is and where I can get it?
Finn
----------------------------------------------------
Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today
Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca)" <mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Garmin connector |
Hi all....just got my new 295 (sweet!) and am trying to figure out a
mounting configuration. I need to use the external antenna, but would
like to find a "shallow" coupler for it. That it, the BNC (I think?)
connector sticks too far out to the rear of the unit for a reasonable
surface "flush" mount. Simple BNC to R*-58 type 90 degree connectors I
have locally, but the cable to the antenna is small diameter - not sure
what it is. Any ideas for the connector of choice - ideally shallow
mount and/or 90 degree bend. Also, any tricks to fastening this thin
cable, before I cut the end off the existing connector?
Thx in advance.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Knettle <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net> |
Aviaiton Inspector ,
Beech-List Digest List ,
Denis M Arbeau ,
Engines-List Digest List ,
"North American Trainer Assc."
| Subject: | Aeroshell Oil Recall |
For those of you using Aeroshell products the code numbers of quart
bottles and cases can be found on this site.
http://www.cessna.org/aeroshell_recall.html
Wes K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin connector |
"Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca)" wrote:
>
>
> Hi all....just got my new 295 (sweet!) and am trying to figure out a
> mounting configuration. I need to use the external antenna, but would
> like to find a "shallow" coupler for it. That it, the BNC (I think?)
> connector sticks too far out to the rear of the unit for a reasonable
> surface "flush" mount. Simple BNC to R*-58 type 90 degree connectors I
> have locally, but the cable to the antenna is small diameter - not sure
> what it is. Any ideas for the connector of choice - ideally shallow
> mount and/or 90 degree bend. Also, any tricks to fastening this thin
> cable, before I cut the end off the existing connector?
> Thx in advance.
> Mike
>
Have you seen the BNC 90 degree adaptors?
BNC male > 90 degree turn > BNC female
Any well stocked electronic supply house will have them &
they won't stick out the back any further than a 90 degree
connector. Nothing to cut, nothing to make, just plug & go.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | alternator field switch |
Bob:
Sorry if I'm the 10,000th guy to ask this, but on page 11-20 of your
book you advise using a 2-3 switch to control battery master contactor
AND alt. field current simultaneously, but you don't say why. It always
made sense to me to be able to disconnect the alt. field coil separately
in order to avoid wasting power into it when the alternator fails and
you're running off the battery only. The Z-1 schematic shows the same
switch.
Are you depending on the B&C voltage regulator to not power the field
coil when the alt. dies?
--
Tom Sargent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
Just how much weight difference is there between the 40 Amp and the 60
Amp alternator? The answer does not appear to be on the website.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A QB N11CB (Res.)
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Katana flap mechanism |
12/1/01
Hello Robert Miller, I agree with Mike's recommendation below. Let me give
you a bit of a head start from the Katana illustrated parts catalog.
The flap control and indicator is in one box on the instrument panel. Part
number is KLSTR-DV20A Flap Control
The actuator is part number 22-2750-02-00 Actuator motor sub-assy,
The position detection system is part number 20-2750-15-00 Position switch
assy.
This position detection system appears to contain two micro switches.
This is not a simple system. Parts appear to be connected with a 3 pin and a
6 pin connector.
If you'd like copies of the pertinent pages email me an address and I'll mail
them to you.
It would be interesting to learn how Diamond treats you. I considered using
some of their parts in my airplane. Sometimes they treated me like a fellow
airplane builder "we are all in this together". Other times they treated me
as competitor to be stonewalled and as a tremedous potential liability if I
crashed my plane and sued them because of the parts that they had sold me.
Please keep us posted.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
In a message dated 12/01/2001 2:52:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, Robert Miller
writes:
From: Robert Miller <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: flap position for RV
I agree with your points here...
but - What kind of switch? How to include indicator? Circuit design?
These are the questions I have... as I already have a preference for a
system similar to your thoughts.
Robert
Mike & Lee Anne (mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca) wrote:
(mwiebe(at)sympatico.ca)"
>
>
>Robert, here's something you might consider. It's a simplification (and in
my opinion,
>an
>improvement) on the Cessna system. A little more difficult to construct,
but elegantly
>simple to use. I first saw this in a Diamond Katana, so find a local
dealer and check
>it out.
>Flap switch is not a momentary contact switch like the days of old, but is
simply a 3
>position
>switch. Top position is cruise (flaps up), middle position is takeoff
flaps, bottom
>position is
>landing flaps. No opportunity for screw ups in deployment. You do have to
give up the
>feeling that you "need" that infinite number of middle settings - sometimes
a hard thing
>for us
>homebuilders to do, but in my opinion the right thing if you are really
looking for
>simplicity. After
>a lot of discussion with the Diamond factory people about this, I am
convinced. My next
>airplane
>will have this, but I haven't figured out the behind the scenes wiring to
make it
>happen. I'm
>sure some listers here will know how, but it might be simpler to check with
the Diamond
>Aircraft folks.
>
>Mike
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
I believe it's 8.3 lbs vs. 6.1 lbs.
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
> Just how much weight difference is there between the 40 Amp and the 60
> Amp alternator? The answer does not appear to be on the website.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A QB N11CB (Res.)
> San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Exhaust Gas Indicator |
>
> Do these O2 sensors work with leaded fuel? I've heard they get
>contaminated and stop working but that could be old wife's tale.
I've seen them produce satisfactory performance after
hundreds of hours on 100LL. They get "slow" . . . too
slow to work with electronic controlled fuel injection
which needs to be tens-of-milliseconds fast . . . as
a manual leaning aid, they seem to perform quite well.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp - Load Analysis |
>
>Ed,
>
>My partner and I are building an RV with a similr setup (without the
>electric RC Allens)
>Navaid AP
>EI UBG
>Van's Gauges
>KMD 150 GPS
>UPS SL40 (no indicator yet)
>KT76A Transponder
>2 100 watt lights
>Whelen Strobes
>No Pitot heat (yet)
>Jeff Rose Electronic Ignition
>Manual Trim
>Turn Coordinator
>Electronic Compass
>Sony "Entertainment Subsystem" ;-) .
>
>We started out **thinking** that a 35 AMP alternator would work ...I don't
>think so!
>There is a scenario where the above adds up to over 50 AMPS!
>
>The more likely scenario can *probably* be covered with the 40. But even
>though my partner says she will never fly it at night, IFR, in a storm, over
>the mountains and that she KNOWS I won't either, we will most likely go with
>the 60.
>
>If it is critical, I think we find the current drain of each of the above.
>
>James
>RV6 ... Panel
>Patty
>RV6 ...Wingtips
And this note . . .
>
>I'm getting ready to engine my RV-6 and I'm trying to figure out how big
>an alternator I'll need. I'll be running all electric with :
>RC Allen horizon and DG, Navaid ap, EI ubg16, Matronics fuelscan,
>Van's gauges for about everything else, KMD 150 gps, KX 165 and
>indicator, and a transponder, 2 100watt landing lights (wigwag), whelen
>comet flash strobes, pitot heat, dual lightspeed ignitions and electric
>trim.
>The documentation that I've got doesn't tell me what the power
>consumption is on most of this stuff. I've tried to measure the amps on
>a gyro with my multimeter and got nowhere.
>Any ideas?
I've yet to see a single engine airplane homebuilt that won't
run well on a 40A machine. The largest full-up, night-ifr running
load I've calculated so far is 27A which leaves 13A for battery
support.
The next new addition to the connection will be a chapter including
a technique for load analysis . . . it is insufficient to ADD UP
all the breakers, these don't represent RUNNING LOADS. It's equally
insufficient to add up everything and assume that the alternator
has to carry all those loads for any significant amount of time.
Break down operations into phases of significant endurance and
add up only those things which have continuous running loads during
that phase. For example, pitot heat needs to be used in clouds,
but all exterior lighting will be OFF. Landing gear, flap motors,
landing lights are short duration, transient loads (unless you have
wig wags where the average draw for the pair of lights is
equal to one light) . . . make a chart of all goodies you plan to
install and then columns of operation phases like taxi, takoff/departure,
day cruise, night cruise, ifr cruise, approach to landing, and
alternator-out ops (the current suppied by battery only to the
essential bus).
If anyone can come up with more than 27A in any of these
phases, I'd like to see your analysis.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
>
>I believe the FAA requirement is 80% of total load for power but if you look
>at your devices, seldom will all be one at one time, especially the landing
>lights if you are flying IFR.
Please try to eliminate the phrase "FAA requirement" from the lexicon
of modern, owner built airplane-speak. There are NO requirements
applicable to what we're doing here. Let's pick an alternator
because we understand what it does for us and how we need to
use it.
> If the larger alternator doesn't have too big
>a weight penalty then it might be ok, but energy management is the key.
>Even with a 100 amp alternator you will not have enough charging capacity
>for extended taxi with every thing on.
What kind of airplane are we talking about here? Electrically
heated prop? Windshield? Toe warmers? . . .
The biggest taxi loads are presented by killer lighting
of some kind. Most of the airplanes I fly don't exceed
100W for taxi lamps (8.5A) . . . after that, it falls
rapidly from there. I suspect none exceed 20A during night
taxi.
The way we recommend belting a B&C alternator (leave the stock
small pulley on), you'll have FULL output available from the
alternator at taxi RPMS.
> Alternators do not put out their
>rated capacity until you running the engine at cruise rpm so one must use
>only what is needed. Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights
>when landing? Pilot's can't see that light behind them.
Because they fly certified airplanes that may or may not
be operated with any need to satisfy the physics of the
matter. I don't know of any Raytheon product that can't
get LOTS of snort out of engine driven power sources
even at flight idle . . . and they never get that slow
in normal ops.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin connector |
>
>Hi all....just got my new 295 (sweet!) and am trying to figure out a
>mounting configuration. I need to use the external antenna, but would
>like to find a "shallow" coupler for it. That it, the BNC (I think?)
>connector sticks too far out to the rear of the unit for a reasonable
>surface "flush" mount. Simple BNC to R*-58 type 90 degree connectors I
>have locally, but the cable to the antenna is small diameter - not sure
>what it is. Any ideas for the connector of choice - ideally shallow
>mount and/or 90 degree bend. Also, any tricks to fastening this thin
>cable, before I cut the end off the existing connector?
>Thx in advance.
>Mike
There are right angle connectors for use with the miniature
coax. Check out http://www.kingselectronics.com/
and search on p/n KC-59-109. This is a typical product
for one series of 50-ohm miniature coaxes. You need
to make sure we're talking about BNC and what coax
is involved.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
I'm sure you are kidding here cause the cabin lighting load is almost
insignificant on airliners with mutiple 100kw (or larger) generators.
The feds do seem to want your eyes adjusted for night vision though in
case of an 'incident'.
Ken
> Alternators do not put out their
>rated capacity until you running the engine at cruise rpm so one must use
>only what is needed. Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights
>when landing? Pilot's can't see that light behind them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ring Terminal Sizes |
Bob:
I am trying to hook up some 14-16 gauge wires to the larger terminals at
solenoid area. I find the large S812 series terminals on your site but what
I need is the large ring for the stud but small crimp area for 16 guage wire.
Is there such an animal?
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Hanger # 23 at INT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed Headsets |
I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
available are:
25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that is
probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for the
3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for the
inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
Comments?
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator size 40 or 60 amp? |
> >only what is needed. Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights
> >when landing? Pilot's can't see that light behind them.
> I thought they turned off the cabin lights to allow the passengers night
vision to adjust should there be a need for an emergency evacuation on
landing. It certainly has nothing to do with the pilot's vision or the
electrical loads.
Scott in Vancouver
> =================================
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
Hi Ross,
I have the 20K and am very happy with it. What a difference ANR makes. I
seriously doubt that you can tell the 3db difference between the 20 and
25XL. Anyway....If you are looking to save some cash I would not hesitate to
bid on ebay. I have enclosed a couple of current links to give you an idea
on price. I got one from the RV-list for $260 and a new in the box off ebay
for $225.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671563825
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1670756232
Ed Perry
eperry(at)san.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Headsets
>
> I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
> available are:
>
> 25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
> 20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
> 15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
>
> There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that is
> probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for the
> 3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for
the
> inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
>
> Comments?
>
> Ross Mickey
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
Ross--
Decibels are plotted on a logarithmic curve, meaning that a 3 dB
increase is a doubling of acoustic power or sound pressure (10 log 2
3.01). At conversational frequencies (1 - 3 kHz) a 3 dB change is just
noticeable as a change in volume. A 10 dB change is noted by most
subjects as a doubling (or halving) in volume.
Thus, across most of the frequecies that you'll be hearing, the noise
reduction in the 25XL will be subjectively twice as great as that of the
15XL. See if you can get the frequency response curve for the
headsets--if the noise reduction is greatest in the 1 - 5 kHz range,
then that's something you will notice (3 - 5 kHz is above normal
conversation but accounts for a lot of the "hiss" that you hear). The
sensitivity of the ear to changes in low frequency sounds falls off
quite a bit (find something called the Fletcher-Munson frequency curves
and then invert the curves to find out where noise reduction will be
most beneficial), so noise reductiion in this area is not as critical.
A very truncated discussion of psychoacoustics.
Boyd
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
>
> I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
> available are:
>
> 25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
> 20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
> 15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
>
> There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that is
> probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for the
> 3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for the
> inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
>
> Comments?
>
> Ross Mickey
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
I forgot. The acid test is to try them in your plane with your
intercom. If you like 'em, then throw out all those frequency curves
and fly on. But it does explain why a "high-frequency wife" gets
cancelled out but not the teen-age drummer--be lucky the other sibling
is not a bass player.
"Boyd C. Braem" wrote:
>
>
> Ross--
>
> Decibels are plotted on a logarithmic curve, meaning that a 3 dB
> increase is a doubling of acoustic power or sound pressure (10 log 2
> 3.01). At conversational frequencies (1 - 3 kHz) a 3 dB change is just
> noticeable as a change in volume. A 10 dB change is noted by most
> subjects as a doubling (or halving) in volume.
>
> Thus, across most of the frequecies that you'll be hearing, the noise
> reduction in the 25XL will be subjectively twice as great as that of the
> 15XL. See if you can get the frequency response curve for the
> headsets--if the noise reduction is greatest in the 1 - 5 kHz range,
> then that's something you will notice (3 - 5 kHz is above normal
> conversation but accounts for a lot of the "hiss" that you hear). The
> sensitivity of the ear to changes in low frequency sounds falls off
> quite a bit (find something called the Fletcher-Munson frequency curves
> and then invert the curves to find out where noise reduction will be
> most beneficial), so noise reductiion in this area is not as critical.
>
> A very truncated discussion of psychoacoustics.
>
> Boyd
>
> Ross Mickey wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
> > available are:
> >
> > 25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
> > 20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
> > 15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
> >
> > There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that is
> > probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for the
> > 3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for the
> > inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
Thanks so much. I will keep looking at ebay.
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Headsets
>
> Hi Ross,
>
> I have the 20K and am very happy with it. What a difference ANR makes. I
> seriously doubt that you can tell the 3db difference between the 20 and
> 25XL. Anyway....If you are looking to save some cash I would not hesitate
to
> bid on ebay. I have enclosed a couple of current links to give you an idea
> on price. I got one from the RV-list for $260 and a new in the box off
ebay
> for $225.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671563825
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1670756232
>
> Ed Perry
> eperry(at)san.rr.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Headsets
>
>
>
> >
> > I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
> > available are:
> >
> > 25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
> > 20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
> > 15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
> >
> > There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that
is
> > probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for
the
> > 3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for
> the
> > inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
> See if you can get the frequency response curve for the
> headsets--if the noise reduction is greatest in the 1 - 5 kHz range,
> then that's something you will notice (3 - 5 kHz is above normal
> conversation but accounts for a lot of the "hiss" that you hear).
Boyd,
A curve is shown on the Lightspeed website but I can't decipher it.
http://www.anrheadsets.com/products25xl.html
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
Boyd C. Braem wrote:
>
>
> A very truncated discussion of psychoacoustics.
>
*** Here's another consideration - Lightspeed headsets are not the most
mechanically robust. I have a pair of 25K's - they're literally falling
apart. Lightspeed support is very good - they fix'em for free - but
I can't quite bring myself to send mine away :).
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | efortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
I have the 25XL and am very pleased with it; howevery it failed after about 15
minutes of use. It was returned for repair and turnaround was quick. They said
it had a broken wire. I have had it for over a year now with no further problems.
Earl RV4
Ed Perry wrote:
>
> Hi Ross,
>
> I have the 20K and am very happy with it. What a difference ANR makes. I
> seriously doubt that you can tell the 3db difference between the 20 and
> 25XL. Anyway....If you are looking to save some cash I would not hesitate to
> bid on ebay. I have enclosed a couple of current links to give you an idea
> on price. I got one from the RV-list for $260 and a new in the box off ebay
> for $225.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671563825
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1670756232
>
> Ed Perry
> eperry(at)san.rr.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Headsets
>
>
> >
> > I am looking to buy a set of Lightspeed headsets for my RV6A. The three
> > available are:
> >
> > 25XL $500 25-28db of active cancellation
> > 20XL $400 22-24db of active cancellation
> > 15XL $300 16-18db of active cancellation
> >
> > There seems to be quite a difference between the 15XL and the 20XL that is
> > probably worth the $100. What I am wondering about is if the $100 for the
> > 3db difference is "worth it." They are identical other wise except for
> the
> > inclusion of an extra "ultrasoft" earcup for the 25XL.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ring Terminal Sizes |
Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:
I am trying to hook up some 14-16 gauge wires to the larger terminals at
solenoid area. I find the large S812 series terminals on your site but what I
need is the large ring for the stud but small crimp area for 16 guage wire. Is
there such an animal?
Go to your local West Marine or BOAT US store. ANCOR makes a good terminal in
most every size.
Richard Reynolds
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Redundant systems |
Pat,
Sorry for the long delay in responding to this. I found the same
information in the manual that you mentioned and did not see anything about
the failure annunciation. Maybe I either dreamed it or Ron Roberts told me
on the phone about some indication of failure of one ignition system. I
haven't had a chance to check through my lengthy notes yet but a call to Ron
may be in order here.
Sorry for the apparent false information, if I find out anything different,
I will let you know.
Sam Chambers
Long-EZ N775AM
----- Original Message -----
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Redundant systems
>
> Sam,
>
> Could you elaborate on how the Electronics Internationals tach monitors
both
> ignition systems? I have their R-1 gauge with dual electronic ignitions
and
> I have read through their manual and cannot find any reference to this.
It
> does say that during the "mag" check you will see a large drop in RPM for
1
> sec when switching from BOTH to LEFT mag while the microprocessor switches
> to the other mag. My gauge has no annunciator that I can see that would
> indicate a failure. Is there a more recent mod to the gauge perhaps? I
> recently had my R-1 modified by E.I. for the electronic ignition and
larger
> numbers, but they did not mention anything about this.
>
> Pat Hatch
> RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT
> O-320, Hartzell C/S
> RV-6, Fuselage
> O-360, Hartzell C/S
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Chambers" <schamber@glasgow-ky.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Redundant systems
>
>
> <schamber@glasgow-ky.com>
> >
> > Electronics International's tach monitors both ingition systems and
> > annunciates a failure. They can and will custom tailor the signal
> > conditioning to whatever your system needs.
> >
> > Sam Chambers
> > Long-EZ N775AM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Redundant systems
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >> I did have an electronic ignition failure while in flight. (the
mag
> > > saved
> > > my butt). Turns out the inductive pickup went intermittent. But as
> you've
> > > stated, the chances of a failure are very slim if everything has been
> > > installed correctly. Having two systems fail at the same time
(assuming
> no
> > > power loss) is almost impossible....<<
> > >
> > > I've been thinking about the discussion of "redundancy" with regard to
> one
> > > electronic/one mag ignition. The previous posts imply that the mag
can
> > fail
> > > undetected because of the timing difference between the electronic
> system
> > > and the mag. This then fails one of the tests for redundancy. For
> > > instance, assume that the mag fails early in a long flight - over
> hostile
> > > terrain of course. That means that you are going to make the whole
> flight
> > > without a backup ignition and not know it. This is what brought down
> the
> > > 737's a while back - the backup hydraulic system would fail and there
> > wasn't
> > > a good way to detect it until the primary also failed. The idea of a
> > > "single failure mode" being all that is necessary to worry about only
> > works
> > > if you can detect that failure. Am I worrying about nothing? One
> > previous
> > > post said the mag is much more likely to fail than the electronic
system
> > and
> > > another reported on an electronic system failure. The population of
> > > electronic systems is very small so one known failure is a lot.
Sounds
> > like
> > > an ignition monitoring system might be worthwhile.
> > >
> > > Gary Casey
> > > C177RG
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ring Terminal Sizes |
>
>
>Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>I am trying to hook up some 14-16 gauge wires to the larger terminals at
>solenoid area. I find the large S812 series terminals on your site but what I
>need is the large ring for the stud but small crimp area for 16 guage wire. Is
>there such an animal?
Sure . . . from our website catalog at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
where you'll find an S814B38 which is a blue insulator
(14-16AWG) and 3/8" stud and an S814B31 which fits
a 5/16" stud.
>Go to your local West Marine or BOAT US store. ANCOR makes a good terminal in
>most every size.
BE WARY OF STORES BEARING TERMINALS . . . not all terminals
are the same. See:
http://209.134.106.21/articles/terminal.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator field switch |
>
>Bob:
> Sorry if I'm the 10,000th guy to ask this, but on page 11-20 of your
>book you advise using a 2-3 switch to control battery master contactor
>AND alt. field current simultaneously, but you don't say why. It always
>made sense to me to be able to disconnect the alt. field coil separately
>in order to avoid wasting power into it when the alternator fails and
>you're running off the battery only. The Z-1 schematic shows the same
>switch.
when most of the folks building MODERN single engine airplanes
have an essential bus that is powered independently of the main
bus. If the alternator fails, one wants to shut down the main bus
which takes care of the alternator field loads -AND- battery contactor.
If there's a need to keep the main bus up via the battery contactor,
then you can pull the alternator field breaker while leaving the
DC power master switch ON. This is most often done during maintenance
ops on the ground to minimize battery loads.
Another option is to wire the DC POWER MASTER with an S700-2-10
switch - two pole, three position, progressive transfer. With this
switch, one can emulate the features of the mystical-magic split-rocker
switch that's found on many certified ships and too many homebuilts.
The lower position is OFF, first position is BATTERY only, the second
position adds the ALT FIELD. This is the switch shown in the latest
incarnations of the 'Connections power distribution diagrams at:
http://209.134.106.21/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
>Are you depending on the B&C voltage regulator to not power the field
>coil when the alt. dies?
Nope, it's all done with switches as described above.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
> I've yet to see a single engine airplane homebuilt that won't
> run well on a 40A machine. The largest full-up, night-ifr running
> load I've calculated so far is 27A which leaves 13A for battery
> support.
Bob:
This certainly agrees with a normal "everything on" load of about 15 amps
for my airplane. Using the above logic, the Z appendix drawings that call
for awg 4 or 5 wire for the alternator output seems to be more than
required. Assuming even a 100% increase in load for a short battery
charging period, would not awg 8 be adequate? An informal eyeball survey on
my local ramp seems to show smaller than awg 4 wires on the alternator
supply leads. Do you recommend the larger wire and 80 amp in line fuse to
protect against a potential battery feed short in this wire?
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <turboflyer(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed Headsets |
If its just the U shapes part that holds the ear cups, they will send you
the parts, easy fix.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
jerry(at)tr2.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lightspeed Headsets
Boyd C. Braem wrote:
>
>
> A very truncated discussion of psychoacoustics.
>
*** Here's another consideration - Lightspeed headsets are not the most
mechanically robust. I have a pair of 25K's - they're literally falling
apart. Lightspeed support is very good - they fix'em for free - but
I can't quite bring myself to send mine away :).
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
Rick wrote:
>
>
> If its just the U shapes part that holds the ear cups, they will send you
> the parts, easy fix.
*** Stirrups? Already replaced those twice. They're OK for the moment.
* One of the "cups" that form the outside of the earpieces has fallen apart,
a big chunk fell out.
* The headband has developed some cracks at its stress points.
* The electronics box broke at one side - I taped it together.
* The R/H pot slider doohicky broke - that side is stuck at full
volume.
* One of the foam surrounds keeps coming unglued.
...But electrically, it's a fantastic headset. And I know Lightspeed will
fix it all, no problem. Just can't stand to take even one flight without
that cushy feel & ANR.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Gray" <mgray(at)graymatter.org> |
In reading the list over the last few months - and at the same time
trying to decide which aircraft to build I haven't seen much discussion
on avionics installation issues. Nowdays there is little need for the
old vacuum instruments as more and more manufacturers are coming up with
the most sophisticated EFIS type instrumentation - much of which has
been discussed on this list. Use of this new technology dramatically
increases the complexity of panel wiring while reducing the plumbing. I
really do not want to build a harness that may have as many as 15 plugs
on it each with cables running from different plugs, sometimes with
joins to multiple connectors. In trying to come up with a simple
avionics wiring system I thought about using commonly available computer
type DB9 / DB25 cables and - for lack of a better word - an "interface
box".
My theory is this - matching connectors on the avionics - for example a
DB15F on the Microair 760 would interface through a computer type DB15 F
- M cable to a DB15M on the "interface box". All wiring - from for
example the headphone out (pin 14 on the Microair) to a COM1 position on
the audio selector would be made inside this box eliminating the need
for a complex harness which would have to be hand made in the
traditional method. At the worst case the substitution of the Microair
for another make of radio would simply require one custom cable DB15F on
the interface box to whatever the pin was on the new radio. In many
cases simple IDC (insulation displacement) style connectors and the
appropriate connector would suffice. However I am not sure if the use of
this non-aviation cable (behind the firewall) would be permitted.
Obviously the box would be screened and the odd cable would have to be
hand made (mainly to overcome problems of interference and crosstalk
where the maker has routed mic level and speaker outs together on one DB
connector). An additional possibility is that the box could contain a
12V 4Ah NiCad which would trickle charge from the Avionics buss and
provide a final emergency backup for several instruments.
Does this make sense to those far more experienced than myself?
Mike Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Terminal terminals |
>Go to your local West Marine or BOAT US store. ANCOR makes a good
terminal in>most every size.
BE WARY OF STORES BEARING TERMINALS . . . not all terminals
are the same. See: http://209.134.106.21/articles/terminal.pdf
Bob . . .
Cheers,
I'll second that!
I'm sitting here slowly cooling off because the pressure
switch which enables the gas burner in my furnace has a broken ring
connector hanging off it. VIBRATION broke its neck. I am at the
computor, so I can welcome the warrantee man who is coming with the
right unit.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights when landing? Pilot's
can't see that light behind them.
I think they used to turn them off to prepare passengers for landing -
mentally.
Matching the lights to the environment is one way. Turning off the movie is
another. Setting the cabin staff in their seats is another.
However, some manufacturers have decided to 'automate' the
decision or have left it to the cabin folk. Bad move.
Ferg
DC3,DC4M2,Visc,Vang,L1049,DC8,DC9,L10,L1011,B767
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
>
>
>> I've yet to see a single engine airplane homebuilt that won't
>> run well on a 40A machine. The largest full-up, night-ifr running
>> load I've calculated so far is 27A which leaves 13A for battery
>> support.
>
>Bob:
>
>This certainly agrees with a normal "everything on" load of about 15 amps
>for my airplane. Using the above logic, the Z appendix drawings that call
>for awg 4 or 5 wire for the alternator output seems to be more than
>required. Assuming even a 100% increase in load for a short battery
>charging period, would not awg 8 be adequate? An informal eyeball survey on
>my local ramp seems to show smaller than awg 4 wires on the alternator
>supply leads. Do you recommend the larger wire and 80 amp in line fuse to
>protect against a potential battery feed short in this wire?
4AWG was a one-size-fits all that was mated with the
terminals supplied in our b-lead fuse kit of some years
past. It wasn't that 4AWG was necessary, just that it
didn't hurt anything and will mate with the hardware in
the kit.
8AWG would be fine too. I'm going to be taking the b-lead
fuse kit off the website catalog and replacing it with
ANL current limiters and the appropriate mounting base.
When this is done, customers will supply their own terminals
to attach to the mounting base and can size the alternator
b-lead accordingly.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
Mike Gray wrote:
>
>
> the most sophisticated EFIS type instrumentation - much of which has
> been discussed on this list. Use of this new technology dramatically
> increases the complexity of panel wiring while reducing the plumbing. I
> really do not want to build a harness that may have as many as 15 plugs
> joins to multiple connectors. In trying to come up with a simple
> avionics wiring system I thought about using commonly available computer
> My theory is this - matching connectors on the avionics - for example a
> DB15F on the Microair 760 would interface through a computer type DB15 F
> - M cable to a DB15M on the "interface box". All wiring - from for
> example the headphone out (pin 14 on the Microair) to a COM1 position on
> the audio selector would be made inside this box eliminating the need
> for a complex harness which would have to be hand made in the
*** How about making the big central box ( BCB ) standardized? With little
individual boxes for the radios and instruments, converting them to a
standard? That way, if a navcom broke or became obsolete, you would be
able to plug in any other navcom that fit in the hole.
Another issue is ease of maintenance. The coolest BCB would open up and
swing out. Every single signal would be available as a test point. It
might even have a trouble light built into the top!
The perimeter of the BCB might be populated with DB25's. Each DB25 would
have a standardized internal "patch board" that could be freely wired to
other stuff inside the BCB. So you set up a little photographic circuit
board foundry - make up a bunch of these patch boards - or have them made
up. Each board would take a PC-mount DB25. The DB25 solders into the
patch board, and mounts to the edge of the BCB with screws. There's your
support for the patch board, too.
One key to making something like this work, is not to use the frame of
the BCB as a ground. Have one ground buss inside the BCB for power, another
one for signal, tie the two together at one point, and tie that point to the
main ground of the airplane.
Peripheral Adaptor Boxes ( PABs ) would consist of a little plastic case
containing a single DB25 with a patch board, same as the ones inside the
BCB.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
What they're showing in the graph (tho I can't read what's represented
in the left-hand scale) is a bandpass filter allowing the speech
frequencies centered on 1 kHz to come thru and then attenuating the
frequencies above and below by either -6/-12 dB per octave. This allows
your (male) voice to go thru but blocks the frequencies on either side
of it. A female with a voice an octave higher (a musical note is an
octave higher if it is double the frequency of the lower note) might get
cut out a bit, here (ie, there's a real sharp cut at 2 kHz). If the ANR
only occurs thru the mic-to-headphone circuit then you shouldn't notice
any difference in the music you hear coming out of the intercom--you'll
notice that there's quite a difference between the frequency response of
the mic compared to the earphones.
Boyd
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com>
>
> > See if you can get the frequency response curve for the
> > headsets--if the noise reduction is greatest in the 1 - 5 kHz range,
> > then that's something you will notice (3 - 5 kHz is above normal
> > conversation but accounts for a lot of the "hiss" that you hear).
>
> Boyd,
>
> A curve is shown on the Lightspeed website but I can't decipher it.
> http://www.anrheadsets.com/products25xl.html
>
> Ross
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | measuring RPM from a mag |
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Hi Guys,
I am wanting to monitor RPM with an engine monitor of my own creation
via the p-lead off of a magneto. My plan is to use a NTE3090
optoisolator and a 10K resistor from the p-lead to get TTL pulses which
if I'm thinking correctly will be two pulses per revolution. Will this
work?
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying 252 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
>
>In reading the list over the last few months - and at the same time
>trying to decide which aircraft to build I haven't seen much discussion
>on avionics installation issues. Nowdays there is little need for the
>old vacuum instruments as more and more manufacturers are coming up with
>the most sophisticated EFIS type instrumentation - much of which has
>been discussed on this list. Use of this new technology dramatically
>increases the complexity of panel wiring while reducing the plumbing. I
>really do not want to build a harness that may have as many as 15 plugs
>on it each with cables running from different plugs, sometimes with
>joins to multiple connectors. In trying to come up with a simple
>avionics wiring system I thought about using commonly available computer
>type DB9 / DB25 cables and - for lack of a better word - an "interface
>box".
Airplanes have used these since WWII . . . I helped design,
install and document a really fat on for the military version
of a Cessna 337 (The O-2A featured in numerous Vietnam movies).
EVERYTHING went through that box. Really friendly for installing
the various systems on the line but there was probably as much
labor in building the box as their was in all the rest of the
harnesses that connected to it.
>My theory is this - matching connectors on the avionics - for example a
>DB15F on the Microair 760 would interface through a computer type DB15 F
>- M cable to a DB15M on the "interface box". All wiring - from for
>example the headphone out (pin 14 on the Microair) to a COM1 position on
>the audio selector would be made inside this box eliminating the need
>for a complex harness which would have to be hand made in the
>traditional method. At the worst case the substitution of the Microair
>for another make of radio would simply require one custom cable DB15F on
>the interface box to whatever the pin was on the new radio. In many
>cases simple IDC (insulation displacement) style connectors and the
>appropriate connector would suffice. However I am not sure if the use of
>this non-aviation cable (behind the firewall) would be permitted.
You can use any kind of connectors you want to . . . nobody's
permission is necessary. What you seem to be describing is
a multi-system junction box . . . widely used in past designs
to facilitate a production situation where hundreds or thousands
of airplanes needed to be assembled. The j-box permits slicing
installations up into discrete harness assemblies that go into
the airplane like tinker-toy parts.
>Obviously the box would be screened and the odd cable would have to be
>hand made (mainly to overcome problems of interference and crosstalk
>where the maker has routed mic level and speaker outs together on one DB
>connector). An additional possibility is that the box could contain a
>12V 4Ah NiCad which would trickle charge from the Avionics buss and
>provide a final emergency backup for several instruments.
>
>Does this make sense to those far more experienced than myself?
In spite of an increase in capability and greater integration
of functionality of current products and things coming over the
hill, the number of wires in the system continue to go DOWN.
We're making more use of serial data communication and integrating
more functions into fewer black boxes. If you were going to
build hundreds of cookie-cutter airplanes, pre-assembled harnesses
and junction boxes might make sense but the ultimate goal is to
minimize the total number of joints in every conductor. J-boxes
take us in the wrong direction.
I'll venture to say that assembling the full avionics package
of a modern light plane will have less than half the number of
black boxes, 1/4th the wire and give more capability than
similar full-up systems of 30 years ago. I'd look VERY carefully
at including any kind of j-box. I helped a guy put one in his
Velocity project about 10 years ago. It sure LOOKED neat but it
had to more than double the time to put the system together.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin lights |
Good point Ferg, I've often wondered.
John A.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fergus Kyle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cabin lights
Why do you think airliners turn off the cabin lights when landing? Pilot's
can't see that light behind them.
I think they used to turn them off to prepare passengers for landing -
mentally.
Matching the lights to the environment is one way. Turning off the movie
is
another. Setting the cabin staff in their seats is another.
However, some manufacturers have decided to 'automate' the
decision or have left it to the cabin folk. Bad move.
Ferg
DC3,DC4M2,Visc,Vang,L1049,DC8,DC9,L10,L1011,B767
=
=
=
=
c-list
=
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Headsets |
And the 15K's are well worth the money too! I have two of them - had them for
several
years. I haven't had ANY problems with them. And they work as well as a friend's
$1000
Bose.
GREAT Value
Ronnie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
I know this has been a topic before and I have searched the archives but
didn't find the answer. I have two of the oil switches from B&C. I would
think that I would get continuity between the common pole and the normally
closed pole, but I don't on either switch. I am testing them on my bench
with a meter. What am I not seeing here??
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
How about a J-box that interconnected everything with a printed circuit
board and connectors that soldered directly to the board and poked out
through the box?
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
>
> In spite of an increase in capability and greater integration
> of functionality of current products and things coming over the
> hill, the number of wires in the system continue to go DOWN.
> We're making more use of serial data communication and integrating
> more functions into fewer black boxes. If you were going to
> build hundreds of cookie-cutter airplanes, pre-assembled harnesses
> and junction boxes might make sense but the ultimate goal is to
> minimize the total number of joints in every conductor. J-boxes
> take us in the wrong direction.
>
> I'll venture to say that assembling the full avionics package
> of a modern light plane will have less than half the number of
> black boxes, 1/4th the wire and give more capability than
> similar full-up systems of 30 years ago. I'd look VERY carefully
> at including any kind of j-box. I helped a guy put one in his
> Velocity project about 10 years ago. It sure LOOKED neat but it
> had to more than double the time to put the system together.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil pressure
the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
counting the time you have run the engine.
Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil pressure and
then they open.
I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system. One side
will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side will
either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is still on
after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a buzzer that will let
me know that the Master Sw is still on.
Howard
1/2 of an RV-8 project.
Mooresville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: measuring RPM from a mag |
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I am wanting to monitor RPM with an engine monitor of my own creation
>via the p-lead off of a magneto. My plan is to use a NTE3090
>optoisolator and a 10K resistor from the p-lead to get TTL pulses which
>if I'm thinking correctly will be two pulses per revolution. Will this
>work?
last time I 'scoped a p-lead, it had LOTS of trash that
included ringing with excursions above and below ground.
I ended up using the the first excursion to trigger a one-
shot multivibrator with a time constant long enough to ignore
the rest of the trash. That was part of a prop-synchronizer
system I was working on for the Cessna light twins about
25 years ago. Haven't had occasion to look at one since.
I suspect it's STILL quite trashy and will need some kind
of filter philosophy to avoid multiple triggers of a single
point opening.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
>
>*** How about making the big central box ( BCB ) standardized? With little
>individual boxes for the radios and instruments, converting them to a
>standard? That way, if a navcom broke or became obsolete, you would be
>able to plug in any other navcom that fit in the hole.
>
> Another issue is ease of maintenance. The coolest BCB would open up and
>swing out. Every single signal would be available as a test point. It
>might even have a trouble light built into the top!
>
> The perimeter of the BCB might be populated with DB25's. Each DB25 would
>have a standardized internal "patch board" that could be freely wired to
>other stuff inside the BCB. So you set up a little photographic circuit
>board foundry - make up a bunch of these patch boards - or have them made
>up. Each board would take a PC-mount DB25. The DB25 solders into the
>patch board, and mounts to the edge of the BCB with screws. There's your
>support for the patch board, too.
>
> One key to making something like this work, is not to use the frame of
>the BCB as a ground. Have one ground buss inside the BCB for power, another
>one for signal, tie the two together at one point, and tie that point to the
>main ground of the airplane.
>
> Peripheral Adaptor Boxes ( PABs ) would consist of a little plastic case
>containing a single DB25 with a patch board, same as the ones inside the
>BCB.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
Sheesh! How many new joints and connectors would this add to all the wires?
I was just setting here figuring out my fondest wishes instrument panel.
Garmin GPS/Nav/Com, transponder, encoder (this will go away soon . . . transponders
will get built in encoders). The only place components of this system touch
each other is panel lighting and power supplies.
Hmmm . . . how about a poor mans system. Microair transceiver, some
superwhippy panel mount GPS, transponder, encoder. Maybe some alarm
tones to the headsets and a stereo system. Again, power and lighting
commonality but with some audio added . . . nothing that the po'man's
audio distribution amplifier couldn't handle. See
http://209.134.106.21/articles/audio/760v4.pdf
If I had a j-box mounted somewhere, I cannot figure out what I would
what to run through it and in particular, how the installation would
be any simpler/easier by running any wires through a j-box.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
The switch you are refering to is what I have. The switch has 3
connections. A common pole, a normally open pole, and a normally closed
pole. When there is no pressure in the switch, I would think the common
pole and the normally closed pole would make a complete circuit, but neither
switch do. This confuses me.
Thanks for the reply,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: <W4PPN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
> Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil
pressure
> the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
> counting the time you have run the engine.
>
> Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil pressure
and
> then they open.
>
> I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system. One
side
> will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side will
> either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is still on
> after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a buzzer that will
let
> me know that the Master Sw is still on.
>
> Howard
> 1/2 of an RV-8 project.
> Mooresville, NC
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> I was just setting here figuring out my fondest wishes instrument
panel.
> Garmin GPS/Nav/Com, transponder, encoder (this will go away soon . . .
transponders
> will get built in encoders).
Bob: A couple of years ago when Upsat introduced their new transponder I
gave them particular hell for not including an encoder in the new design. I
did this more than once. What I got for response was a rather lame "Well,
we probably couldn't get it in our 1.3" box," to which I suggested that
maybe this fixation on a standard box was just flat wrong. Then they said
that they expected their new txp to go into aircraft that already had
encoders. When asked if they just figured to blow off the new aircraft part
of the market the conversation just died away. I believe it just never
occured to them to combine the two functions. Now you come up with the
above comment. Do you know for a fact that this will happen, and who will
be the first to do it?
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | measuring RPM from a mag |
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
> last time I 'scoped a p-lead, it had LOTS of trash that
> included ringing with excursions above and below ground.
> I ended up using the the first excursion to trigger a one-
> shot multivibrator with a time constant long enough to ignore
> the rest of the trash. That was part of a prop-synchronizer
> system I was working on for the Cessna light twins about
> 25 years ago. Haven't had occasion to look at one since.
> I suspect it's STILL quite trashy and will need some kind
> of filter philosophy to avoid multiple triggers of a single
> point opening.
>
>
I was afraid of that. I'm certain I can take care of that in my code,
by ignoring any other pulses for a few uS after the first pulse. At
this point the question in my mind is how much variation in voltage I'll
see in the pulses to effectively trigger the pulse output of the
optoisolator.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: measuring RPM from a mag |
>
>> last time I 'scoped a p-lead, it had LOTS of trash that
>> included ringing with excursions above and below ground.
>> I ended up using the the first excursion to trigger a one-
>> shot multivibrator with a time constant long enough to ignore
>> the rest of the trash. That was part of a prop-synchronizer
>> system I was working on for the Cessna light twins about
>> 25 years ago. Haven't had occasion to look at one since.
>> I suspect it's STILL quite trashy and will need some kind
>> of filter philosophy to avoid multiple triggers of a single
>> point opening.
>>
>>
>
>I was afraid of that. I'm certain I can take care of that in my code,
>by ignoring any other pulses for a few uS after the first pulse. At
>this point the question in my mind is how much variation in voltage I'll
>see in the pulses to effectively trigger the pulse output of the
>optoisolator.
The "signal" (if you want to call it that) has a peak amplitude
in the several hundreds of volts . . . about 300 as I recall.
This is why poking 'round the p-lead connections behind the panel
with the engine running is fraught with surprises. Only got "bit"
once . . . learned very quickly.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>> I was just setting here figuring out my fondest wishes instrument
>panel.
>> Garmin GPS/Nav/Com, transponder, encoder (this will go away soon . . .
>transponders
>> will get built in encoders).
>
>Bob: A couple of years ago when Upsat introduced their new transponder I
>gave them particular hell for not including an encoder in the new design. I
>did this more than once. What I got for response was a rather lame "Well,
>we probably couldn't get it in our 1.3" box," to which I suggested that
>maybe this fixation on a standard box was just flat wrong. Then they said
>that they expected their new txp to go into aircraft that already had
>encoders. When asked if they just figured to blow off the new aircraft part
>of the market the conversation just died away. I believe it just never
>occured to them to combine the two functions. Now you come up with the
>above comment. Do you know for a fact that this will happen, and who will
>be the first to do it?
>
>Gordon Comfort
>N363GC\
Nope. I've talked to a couple of folks. They all see 5-7 cubic
inches of volume when they close their eyes and imagine an
encoder. I've been telling folks that 1.0 to 1.2 cubic inches
is closer. I told them how to do it . . . haven't heard back.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Jerry,
According to Bob's diagram
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf), there should be
continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
I'll check my switch tonight at home.
Rob Acker (RV-6).
>
>
> The switch you are refering to is what I have. The switch has 3
> connections. A common pole, a normally open pole, and a normally
> closed pole. When there is no pressure in the switch, I would think
> the common pole and the normally closed pole would make a complete
> circuit, but neither switch do. This confuses me.
>
> Thanks for the reply,
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <W4PPN(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
>
>>
>> Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil
> pressure
>> the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
>> counting the time you have run the engine.
>>
>> Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil
>> pressure
> and
>> then they open.
>>
>> I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system.
>> One
> side
>> will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side
>> will either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is
>> still on after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a
>> buzzer that will
> let
>> me know that the Master Sw is still on.
>>
>> Howard
>> 1/2 of an RV-8 project.
>> Mooresville, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> generous support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
A couple of years ago I wired up an altimeter/airspeed indicator using a
microcontroller and solid-state pressure sensors. On the breadboard with
wires hanging out and no attempt at packaging, it is less than 5 cu. in.
SMT, with only one sensor for altitude, 1 cu.in. easy. And parts cost
under $20 also easy.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:31 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Interconnection
>
>
> III"
>
> Comfort"
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> >> I was just setting here figuring out my fondest wishes
> instrument
> >panel.
> >> Garmin GPS/Nav/Com, transponder, encoder (this will go
> away soon . . .
> >transponders
> >> will get built in encoders).
> >
> >Bob: A couple of years ago when Upsat introduced their new
> transponder I
> >gave them particular hell for not including an encoder in
> the new design. I
> >did this more than once. What I got for response was a
> rather lame "Well,
> >we probably couldn't get it in our 1.3" box," to which I
> suggested that
> >maybe this fixation on a standard box was just flat wrong.
> Then they said
> >that they expected their new txp to go into aircraft that already had
> >encoders. When asked if they just figured to blow off the
> new aircraft part
> >of the market the conversation just died away. I believe it
> just never
> >occured to them to combine the two functions. Now you come
> up with the
> >above comment. Do you know for a fact that this will
> happen, and who will
> >be the first to do it?
> >
> >Gordon Comfort
> >N363GC\
>
> Nope. I've talked to a couple of folks. They all see 5-7 cubic
> inches of volume when they close their eyes and imagine an
> encoder. I've been telling folks that 1.0 to 1.2 cubic inches
> is closer. I told them how to do it . . . haven't heard back.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
>
>
> ============
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Sheesh! How many new joints and connectors would this add to all the wires?
*** Yeah you're right, Bob. In the case of aircraft wiring, less is
definitely more. My main desire would be to facilitate troubleshooting
anyway.
How about a set of radio/instrument extender/breakout cables, fabricated
at the same time that the panel was put together? Then kept in storage.
- Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
> How about a set of radio/instrument extender/breakout cables,
fabricated
> at the same time that the panel was put together? Then kept in storage.
That's my approach. I'm using the AMP CPC connectors with the machined
pins, I love these things. The connectors are only a few bucks and I bought
extra so I can make a breakout cable and check signals coming out and also
send stuff into the electronics to check and calibrate the system. I like
it so far, nice and clean and "modular". Thru the firewall I have a 9-pin
for "control" signals and a 28-pin for "sensors". On my PC box I have
another 9-pin for power and control and a 28-pin connector for the data
coming in. Connectors are sometimes unreliable but I like to be able to
plug stuff in and out easily. For anything critical, I have either
redundancy or single wires from source to destination. These connectors and
pins with a nice crimper work very well and are a pleasure to work with.
Wiring has been very easy so far. I just have a list of signals for each
connector, then route and cut the wires, then crimp and snap them into the
connector. I'm using the spiral wrap for harnesses and so far so good, I
never thought it would be this easy.
Gary K., fun with wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Rob,
That's my thoughts too, but both switchs have no continuity at any lead.
One switch is over 6 months old and the other I just received. I thought
the old one was defective so I ordered another one last week when I ordered
my coax.
I just don's see how my "master left on" buzzer will work.
Thanks and let me know what you determine.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
> Jerry,
>
> According to Bob's diagram
> (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf), there should be
> continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
> pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
> pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
>
> I'll check my switch tonight at home.
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6).
>
>
> >
> >
> > The switch you are refering to is what I have. The switch has 3
> > connections. A common pole, a normally open pole, and a normally
> > closed pole. When there is no pressure in the switch, I would think
> > the common pole and the normally closed pole would make a complete
> > circuit, but neither switch do. This confuses me.
> >
> > Thanks for the reply,
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <W4PPN(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil
> > pressure
> >> the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
> >> counting the time you have run the engine.
> >>
> >> Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil
> >> pressure
> > and
> >> then they open.
> >>
> >> I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system.
> >> One
> > side
> >> will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side
> >> will either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is
> >> still on after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a
> >> buzzer that will
> > let
> >> me know that the Master Sw is still on.
> >>
> >> Howard
> >> 1/2 of an RV-8 project.
> >> Mooresville, NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > generous support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> > Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)tenforward.com> |
Before you give up try a light and 12V battery. Ohmmeters use very low
voltage these days and might not break down any oxide. I had the same
concern with a similar switch a few years ago and it ohm'ed open but worked
fine with 12V and some current.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
Calvert
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
Rob,
That's my thoughts too, but both switchs have no continuity at any lead.
One switch is over 6 months old and the other I just received. I thought
the old one was defective so I ordered another one last week when I ordered
my coax.
I just don's see how my "master left on" buzzer will work.
Thanks and let me know what you determine.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
> Jerry,
>
> According to Bob's diagram
> (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf), there should be
> continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
> pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
> pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
>
> I'll check my switch tonight at home.
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6).
>
>
> >
> >
> > The switch you are refering to is what I have. The switch has 3
> > connections. A common pole, a normally open pole, and a normally
> > closed pole. When there is no pressure in the switch, I would think
> > the common pole and the normally closed pole would make a complete
> > circuit, but neither switch do. This confuses me.
> >
> > Thanks for the reply,
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <W4PPN(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil
> > pressure
> >> the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
> >> counting the time you have run the engine.
> >>
> >> Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil
> >> pressure
> > and
> >> then they open.
> >>
> >> I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system.
> >> One
> > side
> >> will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side
> >> will either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is
> >> still on after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a
> >> buzzer that will
> > let
> >> me know that the Master Sw is still on.
> >>
> >> Howard
> >> 1/2 of an RV-8 project.
> >> Mooresville, NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > generous support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> > Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Paul,
I will give it a try and post the results.
Thanks,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Messinger <paulm(at)tenforward.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
> Before you give up try a light and 12V battery. Ohmmeters use very low
> voltage these days and might not break down any oxide. I had the same
> concern with a similar switch a few years ago and it ohm'ed open but
worked
> fine with 12V and some current.
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
> Calvert
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> That's my thoughts too, but both switchs have no continuity at any lead.
> One switch is over 6 months old and the other I just received. I thought
> the old one was defective so I ordered another one last week when I
ordered
> my coax.
> I just don's see how my "master left on" buzzer will work.
>
> Thanks and let me know what you determine.
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
>
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > According to Bob's diagram
> > (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf), there should
be
> > continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
> > pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
> > pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
> >
> > I'll check my switch tonight at home.
> >
> > Rob Acker (RV-6).
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The switch you are refering to is what I have. The switch has 3
> > > connections. A common pole, a normally open pole, and a normally
> > > closed pole. When there is no pressure in the switch, I would think
> > > the common pole and the normally closed pole would make a complete
> > > circuit, but neither switch do. This confuses me.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply,
> > > Jerry Calvert
> > > Edmond Ok -6
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <W4PPN(at)aol.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Jerry they are supposed to close under pressure. When you have oil
> > > pressure
> > >> the switch closes and applies 12 Volts to a Hobbs meter and it starts
> > >> counting the time you have run the engine.
> > >>
> > >> Of course there are switches that are closed until you apply oil
> > >> pressure
> > > and
> > >> then they open.
> > >>
> > >> I bought one that does both so I can incorporate it into my system.
> > >> One
> > > side
> > >> will run the hobbs meter when I have oil pressure and the other side
> > >> will either turn a light on to let me know that the Master Switch is
> > >> still on after the engine has shut down, or I can hook it up to a
> > >> buzzer that will
> > > let
> > >> me know that the Master Sw is still on.
> > >>
> > >> Howard
> > >> 1/2 of an RV-8 project.
> > >> Mooresville, NC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > generous support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > > Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> > > Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Switch problem resolved! |
Paul Messinger suggested testing the oil switch continuity with a light and
12v battery. The ohm meter doesn't have enough voltage to get through the
slight oxidation on the contacts. This suggestion wins the prize! The 12v
testing method proves that the normally closed contact is definately closed
in the natural state.
Thanks Paul.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Bob,
Your drawings show from the main bus to the master switch alternator
side a fusible link then routing through a circuit breaker to the
alternator field. Is the double protection necessary or is the fusible
link suggested as an option?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob A" <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Jerry,
My switch ohm'ed out correctly. No idea what's up with *both* of
yours...sure you have the right pins you are trying to measure (P to S
continuity, P to I no continuity w/o pressure)?
Rob.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
> Calvert
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:39 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> That's my thoughts too, but both switchs have no continuity at any lead.
> One switch is over 6 months old and the other I just received. I thought
> the old one was defective so I ordered another one last week when
> I ordered
> my coax.
> I just don's see how my "master left on" buzzer will work.
>
> Thanks and let me know what you determine.
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
>
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > According to Bob's diagram
> > (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf),
> there should be
> > continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
> > pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
> > pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
> >
> > I'll check my switch tonight at home.
> >
> > Rob Acker (RV-6).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
> Bob,
>
>Your drawings show from the main bus to the master switch alternator
>side a fusible link then routing through a circuit breaker to the
>alternator field. Is the double protection necessary or is the fusible
>link suggested as an option?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
protection for a wire needs to be AT THE BUS. If you're
using a fuseblock mounted away from the panel, then there's
an unprotected wire that runs from the main bus up to the
DC MASTER and ALT FIELD circuit breaker. Using a fusible
link at the bus takes care of the short wire, the c/b takes
care of the ov protection and downstream wiring.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Rob,
I checked again with a 12v battery and light. I checks out Ok now. My ohm
meter isn't putting out enough power to get through the oxidation on the
contacts. Thanks for checking it out.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob A <racker(at)rmci.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
>
> Jerry,
>
> My switch ohm'ed out correctly. No idea what's up with *both* of
> yours...sure you have the right pins you are trying to measure (P to S
> continuity, P to I no continuity w/o pressure)?
>
> Rob.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
> > Calvert
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:39 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > That's my thoughts too, but both switchs have no continuity at any lead.
> > One switch is over 6 months old and the other I just received. I
thought
> > the old one was defective so I ordered another one last week when
> > I ordered
> > my coax.
> > I just don's see how my "master left on" buzzer will work.
> >
> > Thanks and let me know what you determine.
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: oil switch
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > >
> > > According to Bob's diagram
> > > (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf),
> > there should be
> > > continuity between leads "P" and "S" with no oil pressure (i.e. oil
> > > pressure idiot light/buzzer circuit), and leads "P" and "I" with oil
> > > pressure (i.e hobbs meter circuit).
> > >
> > > I'll check my switch tonight at home.
> > >
> > > Rob Acker (RV-6).
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
I'm hoping to get some opinions on the layout of switches for my panel. I
have a Stratus subaru with dual fuel pumps, dual ignition and dual
batteries. I have a starter switch that has an accessory contact that I
plan on using for the primary fuel pump and ignition, and a master toggle
for the main battery and alternator. So the start procedure would be flip
up master and turn the key to start.
For the backup pump and ignition (for takeoff/landing and primary system
failure), I am planning on having one of these options;
- one off/on/on toggle to switch on the pump, then pump and ig on using the
backup battery (simplest)
- two off/on/on toggles, one each for the pump and ig, switching between
off, main battery and backup battery (most flexible)
- two on/off switches, one each for the pump and ig to switch off/on from
the backup battery.
- break out the primary pump and ignition from the starter switch and have
separate switches for each (real messy but then maybe a push button starter)
I know it's hard enough to build your own system, much less take an
interest in someone else's, but there's a lot of experienced builders and
pilots here that can provide some valuable opinions. I guess it's mostly
preference anyway but I was having last minute thoughts before installing.
Thanks for any comments, Gary K.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> Sheesh! How many new joints and connectors would this add to all the wires?
>
>*** Yeah you're right, Bob. In the case of aircraft wiring, less is
>definitely more. My main desire would be to facilitate troubleshooting
>anyway.
>
> How about a set of radio/instrument extender/breakout cables, fabricated
>at the same time that the panel was put together? Then kept in storage.
Extension cables, and "breakout" boxes are most valuable
tools for technicians. I have my own set of harnesses
with mating connectors and intermediate panel boxes with
tip jacks that sample every wire through the harness.
Got tired of trying to chase down common tools at
RAC and built my own.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries |
>Hi Bob,
>
>I would like to know your opinion on dry cell rechargeable batteries that some
guys are putting in their aircraft in place of the regular wet cell or RC batteries.
Aircraft Spruce and Van's sell them.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Hepperlen
These are STILL RG batteries . . . they're playing on
words a tad to make them appear different. The Odyssey
battery is an excellent RG product from Hawker . . .
they've been enhanced for deep discharge service (not
particularly important to airplane folks).
See:
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)tenforward.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Switch problem resolved! |
TX.
This list has helped me many times, glad to be of help.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
Calvert
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil Switch problem resolved!
Paul Messinger suggested testing the oil switch continuity with a light and
12v battery. The ohm meter doesn't have enough voltage to get through the
slight oxidation on the contacts. This suggestion wins the prize! The 12v
testing method proves that the normally closed contact is definately closed
in the natural state.
Thanks Paul.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interconnection |
>
>How about a J-box that interconnected everything with a printed circuit
>board and connectors that soldered directly to the board and poked out
>through the box?
>
>David Swartzendruber
>Wichita
Hi Dave, long time no see. What's been going on with your
new job?
Actually, we DID a sort of j-box approach to an audio panel
and some other functions that escape memory. On the single
engine Cessnas about 1968 we built etched circuit boards
with fingers to accept AMP twin-leaf connectors. I think
it had connectors on all four edges and accepted harnesses
from what was then a pretty busy, full stack of radios.
It was abandoned some years later . . . the connector
technology of the time against our ECB tabs proved
less than desirable after a few years in the field.
I'm sure a machined pin, d-sub would have been a better
choice . . . but you and I both know Cessna's product
design philosophy well . . . don't spend a penny more
than you HAVE to . . . that penny-pinching bit us more
than once. I'm not sure but I think we elected not
to gold plate the ECB fingers . . . NOT a good idea.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Inline Fuse Rating |
Hi Bob,
3 things.....
1) first I am now experiencing the problem with the master & starter
contactors having nuts that are too big. If you have any of the 5/16"
nuts and star washers laying around, say 4 of each I would be happy to
reimburse you for them. If you are interested I'll send you my
address.....
2) If I understand your Figure Z1, I am going to route the B lead from
the alternator to the battery side of the Starter contactor. I am
running a 35 amp alternator supplied by Van's and I have a few 50
circuit breakers
laying around, will this be enough to protect the 4awg wire? Or should I
go with a heavier inline fuse? If the fuse what amp?
3) I am looking at my ACS ignition switch. On the back are the
connectors for the MAGs, starter,etc. They look like little loops but
are not threaded. What sort of connector do I use here, or is this a
place for, gulp, SOLDER?
As Always Thank You,
Ed Perry
eperry(at)san.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inline Fuse Rating |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>3 things.....
>
>1) first I am now experiencing the problem with the master & starter
>contactors having nuts that are too big. If you have any of the 5/16"
>nuts and star washers laying around, say 4 of each I would be happy to
>reimburse you for them. If you are interested I'll send you my
>address.....
By too big I presume you mean too thick. I need to know if
the contactors have 5/16-24 or 5/16-18 thread. I can send
you a hardware set with thin nuts and washers.
Also, we had a discussion some time back about adding
a starter-engaged light to your starter contactor. If the
contactor you have is anything like the ones we sell, the
two small terminals are not the same size. The "S" terminal
will be 8-32 thread and this wire goes to your starter
switch. The "I" terminal will be 6-32 . . . this is the
terminal that gets and inline fuse or fusible link and
connects to your STARTER ENGAGED annunicator.
>2) If I understand your Figure Z1, I am going to route the B lead from
>the alternator to the battery side of the Starter contactor. I am
>running a 35 amp alternator supplied by Van's and I have a few 50
>circuit breakers
>laying around, will this be enough to protect the 4awg wire? Or should I
>go with a heavier inline fuse? If the fuse what amp?
No, the 50A breaker is fine. Mount it on a bracked close to the
starter contactor.
>3) I am looking at my ACS ignition switch. On the back are the
>connectors for the MAGs, starter,etc. They look like little loops but
>are not threaded. What sort of connector do I use here, or is this a
>place for, gulp, SOLDER?
Is this an ACS-510 switch or something different? I've never
seen an ignition switch with solder lugs. Are the tabs flat
and thick enough that they COULD be threaded? I'm wondering
if they missed the threading step in manufacturing. Did the
switch come with a bag of screws and lockwashers not installed
on the switch?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | electrical gurus |
Anyone here (Bob?) want to tackle an electronics project?
What I'd like to have (I bet a lot of people would) is a device which can respond
to a remote
signal, perhaps like a touch tone cell phone signal, to turn on and off the electric
engine
pre-heater.
In other words, I wanna get up at 6:00 AM, see that its a good morning to fly,
call the pre-heater
on the phone, and tell it to turn itself on. Then, when I get to the airport a
couple hours
later, everything is warm and happy and ready to fire up.
So far, I've found 2 possible ways to do this, but each has limitations:
1] There is a device sold by Radio Shack and others called the X-10 controller
which does exactly
this and will in fact control up to 10 independent circuits. (push 1 for your
plane, push 2 for
your hangarmates plane, 3 for the guy next door, and so on) The problem is that
it requires
standard phone lines in the hangar which we don't have. (Bringing them in would
cost several
thousand dollars)
2] There is another device sold by Bob Reiff (the heater guy) called the beeper
box. You tape a
telephone pager to it. The device listens for the sound of the beeper beeping
and then the sound
activates a switch which turns on the heater. This eliminates the phone line but
Bob's box is
quite pricey (almost $400), requires a seperate beeper and beeper service account,
and will only
handle a single circuit.
Is there such thing as an X-10 type device that will work off a cell phone, or
other radio type
signal, instead of regular telephone land lines. Or, anybody know how to make
one?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
In a message dated 12/9/2001 10:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> Also, we had a discussion some time back about adding
> a starter-engaged light to your starter contactor. If the
> contactor you have is anything like the ones we sell, the
> two small terminals are not the same size. The "S" terminal
> will be 8-32 thread and this wire goes to your starter
> switch. The "I" terminal will be 6-32 . . . this is the
> terminal that gets and inline fuse or fusible link and
> connects to your STARTER ENGAGED annunicator.
>
Hey everyone ! I had to say "hold everything here" when I saw this . My
confusion on this is directed to Bob : Is'nt one of the potential failure
modes of the start contactor to fail (welded contacts) in the closed position
? This would result in the starter being engaged when there is actually no
voltage present at the "I" terminal & hence no illumination of the Starter
Engaged annunciator . This is the major reason I thought I wanted the
annunciator . Otherwise I know the starter is engaged if the prop is turning
! It seems to me that the pic-up point for the annunciator should be the high
current terminal that gets power when the heavy contacts are closed . I
realise the voltage ( for a 12 v sys) would be maybe 6 or 8 v during cranking
so a lower rated annunciator lamp rating might be needed but @ least then I
would know to turn off my batt master B4 my starter self destructs . Please
clarify . Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
In a message dated 12/9/2001 1:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
> Is there such thing as an X-10 type device that will work off a cell phone,
> or other radio type
> signal, instead of regular telephone land lines. Or, anybody know how to
> make one?
>
> Andy
>
GEEEEZ Andy , you should head to the pattent office w/ this one . I know I'd
love to have that . You better hurry though cause you got me thinking of
persuing this . . . Can't wait to hear from Bob on this . Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
Hi Andy..it is possible to use a radio signal..have a receiver at your hangar,
connected to a touch
tone decoder (DTMF) to control almost anything you want..an old aircraft receiver
will work,
depending on the distance involved..as VHF is pretty much line of sight, and the
range on the ground
even with a good antenna may only be 4 or 5 miles depending on how powerful your
transmitter is..I,ve
used this type of system for turning on runway lights, etc..Radio Shack has a
touch tone module which
can be plugged into your mic jack with built in push to talk..Hams use them for
repeater use, etc.
Vern Smith
Andy wrote:
>
> Anyone here (Bob?) want to tackle an electronics project?
>
> What I'd like to have (I bet a lot of people would) is a device which can respond
to a remote
> signal, perhaps like a touch tone cell phone signal, to turn on and off the electric
engine
> pre-heater.
>
> In other words, I wanna get up at 6:00 AM, see that its a good morning to fly,
call the pre-heater
> on the phone, and tell it to turn itself on. Then, when I get to the airport
a couple hours
> later, everything is warm and happy and ready to fire up.
>
> So far, I've found 2 possible ways to do this, but each has limitations:
>
> 1] There is a device sold by Radio Shack and others called the X-10 controller
which does exactly
> this and will in fact control up to 10 independent circuits. (push 1 for your
plane, push 2 for
> your hangarmates plane, 3 for the guy next door, and so on) The problem is
that it requires
> standard phone lines in the hangar which we don't have. (Bringing them in would
cost several
> thousand dollars)
>
> 2] There is another device sold by Bob Reiff (the heater guy) called the beeper
box. You tape a
> telephone pager to it. The device listens for the sound of the beeper beeping
and then the sound
> activates a switch which turns on the heater. This eliminates the phone line
but Bob's box is
> quite pricey (almost $400), requires a seperate beeper and beeper service account,
and will only
> handle a single circuit.
>
> Is there such thing as an X-10 type device that will work off a cell phone, or
other radio type
> signal, instead of regular telephone land lines. Or, anybody know how to make
one?
>
> Andy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
>
Unfortunately we don't have line of sight to the airport. I'm about 8 miles away
but on the side of a
hill facing the wrong way.
Andy
> Hi Andy..it is possible to use a radio signal..have a receiver at your hangar,
connected to a touch
> tone decoder (DTMF) to control almost anything you want..an old aircraft receiver
will work,
> depending on the distance involved..as VHF is pretty much line of sight, and
the range on the ground
> even with a good antenna may only be 4 or 5 miles depending on how powerful your
transmitter is..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Smith <vismith(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
Have you considered using a CB hookup with a good directional antenna at each end..have
sent data this
way..Vern
Andy wrote:
>
> >
>
> Unfortunately we don't have line of sight to the airport. I'm about 8 miles
away but on the side of a
> hill facing the wrong way.
>
> Andy
>
> > Hi Andy..it is possible to use a radio signal..have a receiver at your hangar,
connected to a touch
> > tone decoder (DTMF) to control almost anything you want..an old aircraft receiver
will work,
> > depending on the distance involved..as VHF is pretty much line of sight, and
the range on the ground
> > even with a good antenna may only be 4 or 5 miles depending on how powerful
your transmitter is..
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
Buy a cell phone and a clapper.
The cell phone ringing will activate a clapper.
Have the clapper activate a circuit that locks the heater on
for 3 hours.
Works on tv anyway :)
Jim Pollard
ch601hds
ea81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
>
>In a message dated 12/9/2001 10:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
>
>> Also, we had a discussion some time back about adding
>> a starter-engaged light to your starter contactor. If the
>> contactor you have is anything like the ones we sell, the
>> two small terminals are not the same size. The "S" terminal
>> will be 8-32 thread and this wire goes to your starter
>> switch. The "I" terminal will be 6-32 . . . this is the
>> terminal that gets and inline fuse or fusible link and
>> connects to your STARTER ENGAGED annunicator.
>>
>
>
>Hey everyone ! I had to say "hold everything here" when I saw this . My
>confusion on this is directed to Bob : Is'nt one of the potential failure
>modes of the start contactor to fail (welded contacts) in the closed position
>? This would result in the starter being engaged when there is actually no
>voltage present at the "I" terminal & hence no illumination of the Starter
>Engaged annunciator . This is the major reason I thought I wanted the
>annunciator . Otherwise I know the starter is engaged if the prop is turning
>! It seems to me that the pic-up point for the annunciator should be the high
>current terminal that gets power when the heavy contacts are closed . I
>realise the voltage ( for a 12 v sys) would be maybe 6 or 8 v during cranking
>so a lower rated annunciator lamp rating might be needed but @ least then I
>would know to turn off my batt master B4 my starter self destructs . Please
>clarify . Chris
When you take one of these contactors apart and study the
way the main terminal contacts are bridged to engage the starter,
the "I" terminal has to be closed too . . . the moveable contact
inside is like a three-legged stool.
Most 12v lamps are entirely adequate to the task for annunciation -
especially if you are watching for the light to go out when
you release the start button.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
So... is there anything wrong with putting the indicator light on the
starter side contact? Especially if it were an LED, which would draw an
insignificant amount of current away from the starter (with dropping
resistor of course)?
-John
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 12/9/2001 10:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> >
> >
> >> Also, we had a discussion some time back about adding
> >> a starter-engaged light to your starter contactor. If the
> >> contactor you have is anything like the ones we sell, the
> >> two small terminals are not the same size. The "S" terminal
> >> will be 8-32 thread and this wire goes to your starter
> >> switch. The "I" terminal will be 6-32 . . . this is the
> >> terminal that gets and inline fuse or fusible link and
> >> connects to your STARTER ENGAGED annunicator.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Hey everyone ! I had to say "hold everything here" when I saw this . My
> >confusion on this is directed to Bob : Is'nt one of the potential failure
> >modes of the start contactor to fail (welded contacts) in the closed position
> >? This would result in the starter being engaged when there is actually no
> >voltage present at the "I" terminal & hence no illumination of the Starter
> >Engaged annunciator . This is the major reason I thought I wanted the
> >annunciator . Otherwise I know the starter is engaged if the prop is turning
> >! It seems to me that the pic-up point for the annunciator should be the high
> >current terminal that gets power when the heavy contacts are closed . I
> >realise the voltage ( for a 12 v sys) would be maybe 6 or 8 v during cranking
> >so a lower rated annunciator lamp rating might be needed but @ least then I
> >would know to turn off my batt master B4 my starter self destructs . Please
> >clarify . Chris
>
> When you take one of these contactors apart and study the
> way the main terminal contacts are bridged to engage the starter,
> the "I" terminal has to be closed too . . . the moveable contact
> inside is like a three-legged stool.
>
> Most 12v lamps are entirely adequate to the task for annunciation -
> especially if you are watching for the light to go out when
> you release the start button.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Remore telephone control |
Andy:
You want an old Amateur Radio licensee. Remote control of radio
repeaters is 50 years old - all done by tone control on the telephone patch.
If done by audio (as in Babysitter), ANY sound which contains the control
tone turns on your preheater - a locomotive whistle, scvreeching tires, etc.
Avoid this by using CTCSS tones (double ones like on you touchtone phone)
and the control circuit comes from the 'ham'.
Don't go for those expensive commercial control circuit units.
Details on request.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
In a message dated 12/10/2001 12:58:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> When you take one of these contactors apart and study the
> way the main terminal contacts are bridged to engage the starter,
> the "I" terminal has to be closed too . . . the moveable contact
> inside is like a three-legged stool.
>
> Most 12v lamps are entirely adequate to the task for annunciation -
> especially if you are watching for the light to go out when
> you release the start button.
>
> Bob . . .
>
OK ,Thanks Bob , That sound sgreat ! Chris . Do Not
Archive !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remore telephone control |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
>
> Andy:
> You want an old Amateur Radio licensee. Remote control of radio
> repeaters is 50 years old - all done by tone control on the telephone patch.
> If done by audio (as in Babysitter), ANY sound which contains the control
> tone turns on your preheater - a locomotive whistle, scvreeching tires, etc.
> Avoid this by using CTCSS tones (double ones like on you touchtone phone)
> and the control circuit comes from the 'ham'.
*** There are chips available that implement the entire tone decode
function. You put audio in one end, and at the other end, the "three"
wire pulses when you a tone encoded "three" comes in.
- Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Remote radio control precautions |
Cheers,
there have been a number of suggestions regarding Gary's request
for info on how to remotely start a preheater. There are wyas to do it, and
ways not to.
One way not to, is to send an audio signal over the air by
whatever radio frequency that can be monitored by the 'cranks'. If they
think you're doing something interesting, they'll tape the tone, and send it
on the same frequency later. You may not want that.
The safest way is still by wired telephone (and that may not be
"cellphone" which is just a radio, but they call it 'wireless' to avoid the
radiating thought), since few are monitoring this mode.
That's why some of these suggestions require the advice of someone who has
the experience to have safely (and legally) done it before. Bob will know
this.
Good Luck,
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remote radio control precautions |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
>
> Cheers,
> there have been a number of suggestions regarding Gary's request
> for info on how to remotely start a preheater. There are wyas to do it, and
> ways not to.
> One way not to, is to send an audio signal over the air by
> whatever radio frequency that can be monitored by the 'cranks'. If they
> think you're doing something interesting, they'll tape the tone, and send it
> on the same frequency later. You may not want that.
*** If you got fancy, you could have a little computer sitting on the phone
line ( or radio ) and use some sort of encrypted request-response protocol.
But that's getting into the "kill a gnat with a sledgehammer" territory.
>
> The safest way is still by wired telephone (and that may not be
> "cellphone" which is just a radio, but they call it 'wireless' to avoid the
> radiating thought), since few are monitoring this mode.
*** "PCS" or "digital" cellphones are probably reasonably secure. If you
listen to their freq with a scanner, I think you just hear noise.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Remote control of hangar equipment |
>
>Anyone here (Bob?) want to tackle an electronics project?
>
>What I'd like to have (I bet a lot of people would) is a device which can respond
to a remote
>signal, perhaps like a touch tone cell phone signal, to turn on and off the electric
engine
>pre-heater.
>
>In other words, I wanna get up at 6:00 AM, see that its a good morning to fly,
call the pre-heater
>on the phone, and tell it to turn itself on. Then, when I get to the airport
a couple hours
>later, everything is warm and happy and ready to fire up.
>
>So far, I've found 2 possible ways to do this, but each has limitations:
>
>1] There is a device sold by Radio Shack and others called the X-10 controller
which does exactly
>this and will in fact control up to 10 independent circuits. (push 1 for your
plane, push 2 for
>your hangarmates plane, 3 for the guy next door, and so on) The problem is that
it requires
>standard phone lines in the hangar which we don't have. (Bringing them in would
cost several
>thousand dollars)
>
>2] There is another device sold by Bob Reiff (the heater guy) called the beeper
box. You tape a
>telephone pager to it. The device listens for the sound of the beeper beeping
and then the sound
>activates a switch which turns on the heater. This eliminates the phone line
but Bob's box is
>quite pricey (almost $400), requires a seperate beeper and beeper service account,
and will only
>handle a single circuit.
the pager is the easiest and least expensive way to go.
The controls are easy, getting a good link is the hard
part. Easiest links are via phone line. Next easiest
is via radio of some kind but if you want to stay "legal"
you need to have some licensed service to carry your
commands . . . things like CB radio, cell phones, pagers
and amateur radio have all been used successfully.
Amateur radio repeater stations are generally located on
very tall facilities so that their line of sight range
can be extensive. I was president the Air Capitol Amateur
Repeater Association when we formed up the club and acquired
a spot 1200 feet up on a television tower in Hutchinson, KS.
http://209.134.106.21/ktvh.jpg
Those are the toes of my boots at the bottom of the frame.
I took the picture looking down the center of the tower from
the 1200 foot platform. From this kind of height, relatively
low power, line of sight communications and control are
possible over a wide area. The repeater we installed on that
platform would perform well with a two-watt handheld transceiver
45 miles away in Wichita.
It's not too difficult to get an amateur radio operators
license that would let you access one or more local repeaters.
You need to memorize some stuff and take a relatively slow
code test (5 wpm).
All you need then is a receiver decoder on the remote site and
a touchtone pad on any transmitter fitted to talk to that
repeater. Since you don't need a lot of variable frequency
performance or other features, relatively cheap transceivers
can be had from Ebay and similar services.
The transceiver at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1306799707
is going to sell for peanuts. I built a remote control system
that worked through a local repeater for another application
about 10 years ago. Bought a couple of crystal controlled
transceivers for about $20 each as I recall. Rigged an off
the shelf touch tone controller to the remote receiver. The
customer was able to control several different functions
over 90 miles away and get a confirming reply from the remote
site.
Of course this is all hung out on a relatively public facility
and subject to mischief by others who might try to figure out how
your system works. It's relatively easy to make it secure
even on an open service like a shared repeater. Nowadays, I
would use a Basic-Stamp micro-controller running an algorithm
against a time of day clock to constantly change the control
codes. Not heavy duty security but difficult to crack since
you would use it very infrequently. Even if someone observed
and decoded your commands, it's unlikely that they would
get more than a few samples a month to work with.
One could acquire and assemble the total package for under
100 dollars.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
>
>So... is there anything wrong with putting the indicator light on the
>starter side contact? Especially if it were an LED, which would draw an
>insignificant amount of current away from the starter (with dropping
>resistor of course)?
>
>-John
that would work too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Photo Share Main Index Page - The Detail You Asked |
For...
Hi Listers!
I've been noticing a lot of people having fun with the new Email List Photo
and File Share feature and I've seen a great many hits on the various
member pages.
A number of you wrote to say that some additional topic data on the Main
Photo Share Index page would certainly be helpful and I would have to agree.
It took a little programming, and it was a job retrofitting to all of the
older Shares, but I think you'll be pleased with the outcome! I've added
Poster Name, Photo Share Subject, and Target Email List data to the Main
Index. Clicking on a Subject text opens a new window with the Photo Share
and the thumbnails.
Have a look and feel free to submit your photos for sharing! The
instructions are at the top of the Main Photo Share Index Page.
The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Enjoy!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED KOWALSKI" <salned(at)msn.com> |
Right now I have a sony AM/FM Sterio CD player installed in our RV-8 and
am thinking of going to an MP-3 player instead. Can they be tied into the Audio
Panel (Garmin 340 )? Do you recomend any specific unit? Thanks!!!!!!!!............Ed
Ed Kowalski, Wilmington Il.
RV-8.......... S.N. #80127
N127EK
Getting ready to Fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remote control of hangar equipment |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> Of course this is all hung out on a relatively public facility
> and subject to mischief by others who might try to figure out how
> your system works. It's relatively easy to make it secure
> even on an open service like a shared repeater. Nowadays, I
> would use a Basic-Stamp micro-controller running an algorithm
> against a time of day clock to constantly change the control
> codes.
*** Would the FCC interpret this as "codes & ciphers"? Or are those
OK now? ( I haven't kept track over the last few years... )
- Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote control of hangar equipment |
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>> Of course this is all hung out on a relatively public facility
>> and subject to mischief by others who might try to figure out how
>> your system works. It's relatively easy to make it secure
>> even on an open service like a shared repeater. Nowadays, I
>> would use a Basic-Stamp micro-controller running an algorithm
>> against a time of day clock to constantly change the control
>> codes.
>
>*** Would the FCC interpret this as "codes & ciphers"? Or are those
>OK now? ( I haven't kept track over the last few years... )
>
> - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
ANY bureaucrat could pick up on that rule and make an
issue of it . . . the codes and ciphers rule has been
around I believe since day-one and its apparent intent was
to restrict communications to plain languages. Obviously,
one could have legally used some obscure foreign dialect
and still be "legal" . . . this task is more of a remote
control activity that does not convey intelligence from
one person to another and would (in my not so humble
opinion) come under the jurisdiction of the rule. . .
but this day and age (and while dealing with government)
you never know.
BOB, K0DYH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | A conversation about shielding |
>By the way, my whole understanding of the purpose of using shielded wire
>may be faulty. I thought it was that GPS is very noise-sensitive and
>therefore one would like to keep radiated energy in the vicinity as low as
>possible. I just assumed that every unshielded conductor acts like a little
>antenna broadcasting whatever goes through it, and that its signal would be
>a problem for the GPS even several feet away. Is the only problem actually
>between wires that run in close proximity to one another for some distance?
>I am in fact running all my radio-related wiring in separate bundles.
Shielded wire has almost no beneficial effects for controlling
"radiation" . . . shielding breaks up the CAPACITIVE coupling
of fast rise-time voltages between adjacent conductors in airplanes
that use airframe ground for the primary power return.
In composite airplanes, where the ground must accompany the supply
wire to remote loads, there is a small benefit to be gained to reduce
MAGNETIC coupling of current variation noise between adjacent
conductors by using the shield as a ground return. This absolutely
forces concentric equal and opposite magnetic fields around the
wire to cancel each other. Similarly, magnetic fields from other
antagonists couple equally into both conductors with electrical
effects nulled out at the ends of the conductor.
You can get 90% of the SAME effect by bundling inbound and outbound
conductors together in parallel bundles and 99% of the same effect
by twisting them together (about 1 turn per inch).
If you have the tools, skill and materials to deal comfortably
with shielded wire for this application, it's not a bad thing
to do . . . but the benefits over other techniques don't justify
the effort if you're having to spend a lot of time on it -OR- if
there are any concerns for operational integrity due to hassles
of the special techniques involved.
Most problems with MAGNETIC radiation involve the whisky compass
or alternator whine coupled into audio systems.
>Now that I think about it, people use GPS in all kinds of environments. Is
>noise really that big a problem? And does noise really mean what I thought
>it means -- eg a signal emanating from an unshielded DC conductor running
>to, say, a light bulb?
No, GPS is 1500 MHz . . . far above the range of system generated
noises in your airplane. The strongest potential antagonist to
GPS comes from harmonics of local oscillators in your VHF receivers
falling on or near the GPS receiving frequencies . . . and this
has been rare in practice. Most cases of poor GPS performance
can be traced to antenna problems . . .poor design or location
on the aircraft.
Except for the minor benefits I've described above, the use of
shielded wire in light aircraft is generally limited to P-leads,
strobe-head-to-power-supply leads (both fast risetime voltages),
and to avionics wiring where the installation instructions call
out shielded wire. The biggest noise reduction comes from use of
single point grounding (in both metal and plastic airplanes)
described in my book.
>You see, once you start ignorant people thinking, you cause all kinds of
>mischief.
No, just an opportunity to spread the words of understanding. Knowledge
is one of the few commodities who's value goes up because
it is shared with the maximum number of interested parties.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remote control of hangar equipment |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
*** How about an "invisible" cipher? Let's say you have a code that you
use to turn on the thingie. It consists of N CTCSS digits. The digits
are always the same. HOWEVER, the digit-to-digit times vary with respect
to the date, the time of day, the phase of the moon, whatever. Wrong
times = no worko.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
> >> against a time of day clock to constantly change the control
> >> codes.
> >
> >*** Would the FCC interpret this as "codes & ciphers"? Or are those
> >OK now? ( I haven't kept track over the last few years... )
> >
> > - Jerry Kaidor, KF6VB
>
> ANY bureaucrat could pick up on that rule and make an
> issue of it . . . the codes and ciphers rule has been
> around I believe since day-one and its apparent intent was
> to restrict communications to plain languages. Obviously,
> one could have legally used some obscure foreign dialect
> and still be "legal" . . . this task is more of a remote
> control activity that does not convey intelligence from
> one person to another and would (in my not so humble
> opinion) come under the jurisdiction of the rule. . .
> but this day and age (and while dealing with government)
> you never know.
>
> BOB, K0DYH
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "ED KOWALSKI" <salned(at)msn.com>
> Right now I have a sony AM/FM Sterio CD player installed in our RV-8 and
> am thinking of going to an MP-3 player instead. Can they be tied into th> e
Audio Panel (Garmin 340 )? Do you recomend any specific unit? Thanks> !!!!!!!!............Ed
Ed,
I see that you didn't get many public responses to your question. I am
going to get an MP3 for my RV-6A. It will just plug into the SL15 Apollo
audio panel. There are a few formats to choose from and just like building
an airplane, mission is the key. MP3 players come in many sizes and
formats. The four basic are the CD, minidisk, flash memory and hard drive.
The flash memory are the smallest and least prone to skipping but tend to
hold the smallest amount. The CD format allows you to burn MP3 CD's and is
the largest. The hard drive hold the most (6-20mb) but are heavy and are
just portable hard drives. I am leaning towards the Creative Nomad 32 on
board. This has 32 kb flash memory and accepts 128kb SmartMedia cards. It
is small, light and should hold 10 hours of music. If you want to carry
your whole CD library with you, I would go with the Archos Nomad 20mb. This
all assumes you are PC not Mac based.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com> |
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Mickey [mailto:rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 09:57
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP-3 Player
>
> ... I am leaning towards the Creative Nomad 32 on
> board. This has 32 kb flash memory and accepts 128kb
> SmartMedia cards. It
> is small, light and should hold 10 hours of music. If you
> want to carry
> your whole CD library with you, I would go with the Archos
> Nomad 20mb. This
> all assumes you are PC not Mac based.
>
> Ross
Other disk-based systems to check out are the Neo Jukebox, available
with drives up to 40GB, and the Neo Car Jukebox, available with 40GB and
60GB drives and already built to handle vibration. If you're a Mac type,
there;s the iPod.
The Nomad is actually made by Creative Labs, and Archos has a product
called the Jukebox, available in several configurations. Search on
Google for "Archos Jukebox", "Creative Labs Nomad", and "Jeo Jukebox".
If you like to roll your own, there are several open-source and/or DIY
MP3 player projects out there.
I personally plan to install the Neo Car Jukebox in my Europa, and carry
my entire 600+ CD music collection along. What the heck - the extra bits
don't weigh all that much.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: A conversation about shielding |
----- Original Message -----
>
> In composite airplanes, where the ground must accompany the supply
> wire to remote loads, there is a small benefit to be gained to reduce
> MAGNETIC coupling of current variation noise between adjacent
> conductors by using the shield as a ground return. This absolutely
> forces concentric equal and opposite magnetic fields around the
> wire to cancel each other. Similarly, magnetic fields from other
> antagonists couple equally into both conductors with electrical
> effects nulled out at the ends of the conductor.
>
> You can get 90% of the SAME effect by bundling inbound and outbound
> conductors together in parallel bundles and 99% of the same effect
> by twisting them together (about 1 turn per inch).
Interesting....My micromonitor manual calls for the majority of sensors to
be connected by twisted pair inside a sheild. Does this mean I can
substitute a pair of shielded wires without penalty?
I thought the explanation very clear and understandable: I got 100%, 100% of
the time in the electrics module tests when I did my A&P. Certainly doesn't
mean I understood it (Once it gets beyond the "water in pipes" analogy, it's
over my head) but I've learned more on this site (and via the aeroelectric
connection) than I thought possible. What's more, it's interesting. Does
this mean I'm turning into a geek?
all the best
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
>----- Original Message -----
>> Right now I have a sony AM/FM Sterio CD player installed in our RV-8 and
>> am thinking of going to an MP-3 player instead. Can they be tied into th>>
e Audio Panel (Garmin 340 )? Do you recomend any specific unit? Thanks>
>
>an airplane, mission is the key. MP3 players come in many sizes and
>formats. The four basic are the CD, minidisk, flash memory and hard drive.
>The flash memory are the smallest and least prone to skipping but tend to
>hold the smallest amount. The CD format allows you to burn MP3 CD's and is
>the largest. The hard drive hold the most (6-20mb) but are heavy and are
>just portable hard drives. I am leaning towards the Creative Nomad 32 on
I don't have experience with the in-dash units, but have been using a
portable Phillips Expanium EXP103 in my truck since early summer. I intend
to install a panel-mount (dash-mount) mp3 player in my RV, but the EPX103
portable, fed into the aux music port of the intercom would definately be
suitable. It has 100 second skip protection at 128Kbps, which is adequate.
I haven't tried dropping it, but I've shaken it, rattled it, turn it
upside down, and left it sitting on either the floor or dashboard of a
truck bouncing down rough roads, and so far, it has never skipped.
I've been using mp3s at home for a few years, and have one of my older
desktops connected to the stereo as a dedicated mp3 'tape drive' for
playing and recording them. I've converted all 300+ CDs in our collection
to mp3s, and have started on the 500+ vinyl albums. In my opinion, 128Kbps
is the optimum comprimise between quality and compression for every day
use. The audio quality at the lower bitrates becomes objectionable; at the
higher rates the sound improves, but only to a point, and with less
compression. If you want CD quality, you're stuck with a CD. The audio
quality of an mp3 at 128Kbps is as good or better than FM radio or the very
best audio cassette. More than good enough in a noisy environment, even
with good headsets.
At 128Kbps you can expect your audio CDs to compress to about 10%. That
is, roughly 10 audio CDs can be converted to 128Kbps mp3s and stored on a
single data CD. The low end 32mb portables will not hold the music from
even a single audio CD unless you go to a lower bit rate, making them
fairly impractical.
In the RV, I'd recommend a panel mounted in-dash unit for convenience, or a
portable for economy and weight. A semi-permanent installation of a
portable might be a good compromise. Or use a portable in conjunction with
the current panel-mount stereo. The hard-drive based units are probably a
little heavy for aircraft use, and having hundreds of hours of music on tap
in an airplane that can get from Seattle to Key West in less than 20 seems
like overkill.
You will find reviews of several in-dash units online. The usual
considerations of ease of use, clarity of display, etc that you would
evaluate when choosing a unit for your car also apply when choosing one for
your RV. You should also consider installed weight. Since you won't be
installing speakers, power output is of no interest. Skip protection is
important too. In my experience, 100 seconds is plenty. Less might even
be enough. More would be better, everything else being equal.
The mp3 format has been huge with computer geeks for years, but for reasons
I don't understand, has been slow to catch on in the consumer audio market.
The selection of players just continues to get better. You can find a
reasonable selection of what is available now for cars (RVs) with
specifications, and some reviews at:
http://www.highwaymp3.com
Another site that works pretty well for checking prices is:
http://www.nextag.com/In_dash_MP3_CD~500122z3oz3kzmainz5-htm
Good luck.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
RV-6A in progress, N642MH (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
*** I have a Casio E100 that's not doing much. I was thinking of making
that into an in-plane MP3 player. With mono MP3's and a large Compact Flash
card, it would hold a pretty reasonable number of songs.
( why mono? Rest of the plane is mono anyway, why waste the space? )
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Melvinke(at)aol.com |
My Creative Nomad will not provide sufficient volume when pluged into the NAT
intercom, through which a Walkman or Discman provide plenty of sound. When I
interfaced the Nomad with a small amplifier, it locked up and had to be
reset. In other words, the Nomad is no good for the purpose.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical gurus |
How about buying a little cheap pager with a vibrating motor. Take the
thing apart and un-solder the motor and replace it with a relay. Put the
pager in vibrate mode and you have a discrete signal to start some kind of
timer that would run your heater for say two or three hours.
If you really want to be fancy you could put a cellular phone near one of
the touch tone decoders that have been discussed here and put the cell phone
in auto-answer mode. Just dial the cell phone number when it answers punch
in your code and there you have it. This would also give you a phone to use
at the hanger as well as giving you the ability to control multiple devices
and with a little creativity could give you some feedback, you could plug
some noise maker into the same outlet with the heater and you can listen for
the noise to make sure that it is working. You could also set this thing up
to turn things off.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - Wings - Fuse ordered
Houston, Texas
http://www.myrv7.com
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: electrical gurus
>
> Anyone here (Bob?) want to tackle an electronics project?
>
> What I'd like to have (I bet a lot of people would) is a device which can
respond to a remote
> signal, perhaps like a touch tone cell phone signal, to turn on and off
the electric engine
> pre-heater.
>
> In other words, I wanna get up at 6:00 AM, see that its a good morning to
fly, call the pre-heater
> on the phone, and tell it to turn itself on. Then, when I get to the
airport a couple hours
> later, everything is warm and happy and ready to fire up.
>
> So far, I've found 2 possible ways to do this, but each has limitations:
>
> 1] There is a device sold by Radio Shack and others called the X-10
controller which does exactly
> this and will in fact control up to 10 independent circuits. (push 1 for
your plane, push 2 for
> your hangarmates plane, 3 for the guy next door, and so on) The problem
is that it requires
> standard phone lines in the hangar which we don't have. (Bringing them in
would cost several
> thousand dollars)
>
> 2] There is another device sold by Bob Reiff (the heater guy) called the
beeper box. You tape a
> telephone pager to it. The device listens for the sound of the beeper
beeping and then the sound
> activates a switch which turns on the heater. This eliminates the phone
line but Bob's box is
> quite pricey (almost $400), requires a seperate beeper and beeper service
account, and will only
> handle a single circuit.
>
> Is there such thing as an X-10 type device that will work off a cell
phone, or other radio type
> signal, instead of regular telephone land lines. Or, anybody know how to
make one?
>
> Andy
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
You will find the problem with many intercoms including the PS Engineering
PM3000 that I have. It is because the entertaiment circuit is fed into the
audio stream *before* the intercom volume control and is therefore
attenuated. I bought a Boostaroo, a little battery powered linear amplifier
that provides 12 db of boost, which helped, but still didn't solve the
problem to my satisfaction. Consequently I'm presently building a whole new
panel (for several reasons) into which I'm installing a PS Engerring
PCD7100. This has it's own volume control for the music that is blended into
the audio stream *after* the main voice volume control. Doesn't play MP3s,
but store a small CD wallet in the cockpit should be no problem.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 140 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
> My Creative Nomad will not provide sufficient volume when pluged into the
NAT
> intercom, through which a Walkman or Discman provide plenty of sound. When
I
> interfaced the Nomad with a small amplifier, it locked up and had to be
> reset. In other words, the Nomad is no good for the purpose.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A conversation about shielding |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>
>> In composite airplanes, where the ground must accompany the supply
>> wire to remote loads, there is a small benefit to be gained to reduce
>> MAGNETIC coupling of current variation noise between adjacent
>> conductors by using the shield as a ground return. This absolutely
>> forces concentric equal and opposite magnetic fields around the
>> wire to cancel each other. Similarly, magnetic fields from other
>> antagonists couple equally into both conductors with electrical
>> effects nulled out at the ends of the conductor.
>>
>> You can get 90% of the SAME effect by bundling inbound and outbound
>> conductors together in parallel bundles and 99% of the same effect
>> by twisting them together (about 1 turn per inch).
>
>Interesting....My micromonitor manual calls for the majority of sensors to
>be connected by twisted pair inside a sheild. Does this mean I can
>substitute a pair of shielded wires without penalty?
No, when a manufacturer calls out specific wiring techniques
for their product, they should be observed. What you've suggested
is probably true but one should give the designers a benefit
of the doubt . . . perhaps they're aware of some vulnerability
that is to readily apparent.
On the other side of the coin, we should observe that adding
shielding to a wire protects the system from a very narrow
spectrum of antagonistic stresses which are also rare throughout
the average system . . . there is no value in shielding-every-
wire-just-to-be-safe . . . I've had a couple of builders do
this and they added many pounds, dollars and hours to their
projects without adding operational value.
>I thought the explanation very clear and understandable: I got 100%, 100% of
>the time in the electrics module tests when I did my A&P. Certainly doesn't
>mean I understood it (Once it gets beyond the "water in pipes" analogy, it's
>over my head) but I've learned more on this site (and via the aeroelectric
>connection) than I thought possible. What's more, it's interesting. Does
>this mean I'm turning into a geek?
I sincerely hope so. There are many factions in our society
who champion a variety of causes to rid us of one kind of
evil or another . . . may I suggest that mankind's greatest
threat in any venue comes from ignorance and lack of
understanding?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Ground wire from aft mounted battery |
Aeroelectriceers,
I am working on the aft fuselage in a Harmon Rocket II (modified RV4, aft
battery) and have closely followed Bob's wiring strategy. I spoke with
someone who wired the ground side a bit different and it seems to work well
and save quite a few lbs. I'm interested in possible downsides on this
method.
Instead of running an additional 2awg wire from the Battery Negative
terminal to the engine, run a short length to the nearby 1/8" aluminum
longeron (running the full length of the airplane). At the forward end, run
a braid or wire to a firewall/engine mount bolt and from there to a ground
block for the panel. On the engine side of that same firewall/engine mount
bolt, run a braid to the engine case. This will save many feet of 2awg
wire.
Also, can the main positive lead from the master contactor be routed to an
insulated stud on the firewall rather than having the wire go through to the
starter contactor or is that too many connections?
Thanks,
Russ Werner
Maui
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Gray" <mgray(at)graymatter.org> |
Can any of the good folks out there tell me if there is a book on
avionics - particularly interconnection and protocols etc. - that is
similar in scope to the Bob's AeroElectric bible?
Mike Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED KOWALSKI" <salned(at)msn.com> |
Thanks to all that responded. You've been a great help and given me plenty to
look into. Thanks Again...Ed
Ed Kowalski, Wilmington Il.
RV-8.......... S.N. #80127
N127EK
Getting ready to Fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics 101 |
Mike Gray wrote:
>
> Can any of the good folks out there tell me if there is a book on
> avionics - particularly interconnection and protocols etc. - that is
> similar in scope to the Bob's AeroElectric bible?
>
Try Avionics Troubleshooting & Repair by Eric Mahler.
Aside from the title, this book is really more of an installation guide than
anything else, as it goes by the premise that most avionics problems are actually
installation issues and, among other things, shows you how to check and perfect
those connections.
You can see a more detailed description in the Electrical and Panel section of
Builder's Bookstore
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vans MP Gauge/Radio Interference |
Hello Listers,
I am having a problem with my Vans manifold pressure gauge and the electric
trim indicator.
When I key the transmitter the Vans manifold pressure gauge loses pressure
using the Narco MK12D and gains pressure with the Garmin GNC250XL.=A0 Also the
trim indicator will move from neutral to full nose up when I key the Garmin.=A0
The Narco does not effect it.=A0
I have tried every thing I could think of to isolate this problem, nothing
seems to work.=A0 I am hoping someone else has experienced this problem and
came up with a solution.=A0
I have used the Electrical Connection techniques faithfully throughout the
wiring process.=A0 Maybe I missed something!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cash Copeland
RV6 N46FC
To the airport when I solve this problem
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans MP Gauge/Radio Interference |
This isn't help, just consolation. My Van's MAP gauge gains pressure when I
xmit (UPSAT SL40). I've learned to live with it though as you really don't
spend that much time transmitting. If anyone has a solution I'd be
interested though.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 140.5 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
> I am having a problem with my Vans manifold pressure gauge and the
electric
> trim indicator.
> When I key the transmitter the Vans manifold pressure gauge loses pressure
> using the Narco MK12D and gains pressure with the Garmin GNC250XL.=A0 Also
t> he
> trim indicator will move from neutral to full nose up when I key the
Garmin.>
> The Narco does not effect it.=A0
> I have tried every thing I could think of to isolate this problem, nothing
> seems to work.=A0 I am hoping someone else has experienced this problem
and
> came up with a solution.=A0
> I have used the Electrical Connection techniques faithfully throughout the
> wiring process.=A0 Maybe I missed something!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 N46FC
> To the airport when I solve this problem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector? I'm building
an RV-6
with capacative senders. How do I solder the doggone thing without melting the
guts of
the connector? Any types of soldering guns that are more suited to this than others?
And what type of solder should I use?
Told ya these were crayon-level :-)
Semper Fi
John
RV-6 (fuel tank for left wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Mattsson" <ken.mattsson(at)helsinki.fi> |
| Subject: | battery solenoid + diode |
Hi everybody!
This is my first post to this mail list, so if Im off topic please tell me so.
Im reading Tony Bingelis Firewall Forward book, currently the chapter on electrical
systems. On one wiring schematic for a complete electrical system there is
a diode connected over the battery solenoid. It is connected from the relay
connector to the primary plus of the solenoid, allowing current flow in that direction.
What is this diode used for? Some kind of radio interference antimeasure?
Ken
Finland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
Heat the end of the wire and coat it with some good electical solder(I use
radioshack 63/37). Push the wire in the BNC hole and use a fine tip solder
iron and heat the area where the wire sticks in and touch solder to it and
it will wick up in there. Doesn't take long. Use proseal and completely
coat the BNC on the inside of the tank so it won't leak fuel. Also, coat
the wire were it comes out of the BNC for about 1 1/2" up the wire. This
helps support the wire better from vibration.
You're next BNC challenge will be figuring out how to connect the sender
converter modules coming from the guage to the BNC you just installed!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector
>
> OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
>
> Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector? I'm
building an RV-6
> with capacative senders. How do I solder the doggone thing without melting
the guts of
> the connector? Any types of soldering guns that are more suited to this
than others?
> And what type of solder should I use?
>
> Told ya these were crayon-level :-)
>
> Semper Fi
> John
> RV-6 (fuel tank for left wing)
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery solenoid + diode |
>
>Hi everybody!
>
>This is my first post to this mail list, so if Im off topic please tell me so.
>
>Im reading Tony Bingelis Firewall Forward book, currently the chapter on electrical
systems. On one wiring schematic for a complete electrical system there
is a diode connected over the battery solenoid. It is connected from the relay
connector to the primary plus of the solenoid, allowing current flow in that
direction.
>
>What is this diode used for? Some kind of radio interference antimeasure?
Go to http://www.aeroelectric.com and click on link
to Article Reprints and Newsgroup Treads. On the
next page, find and click on "An illustrated discussion
about spike catching diodes and how they work."
You may find a bunch of other goodies on this page
worth reading as well.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: battery solenoid + diode |
This is a common trick, necessary for any coil that is turned on and
off.
When you turn on the circuit, a magnetic field builds up in the relay's
coil.
When you turn it off, the magnetic field collapses.
Any moving magnetic field (even collapsing ones) induces a voltage in
any wire in its path.
The collapsing magnetic field crosses the many wires in the relay's coil
and induces a large voltage spike in them, in the opposite direction of
the voltage that created the magnetic field in the first place.
The diode is there to "clamp" any such reverse voltage spike.
-John
Ken Mattsson wrote:
>
>
> Hi everybody!
>
> This is my first post to this mail list, so if Im off topic please tell me so.
>
> Im reading Tony Bingelis Firewall Forward book, currently the chapter on electrical
systems. On one wiring schematic for a complete electrical system there
is a diode connected over the battery solenoid. It is connected from the relay
connector to the primary plus of the solenoid, allowing current flow in that
direction.
>
> What is this diode used for? Some kind of radio interference antimeasure?
>
> Ken
> Finland
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
12/17/2001 09:55:28 AM
If anyone is interested in a yellow tagged King KY 197 A Comm radio, please
email privately
Thanks
Terry
Long EZ
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
>
>OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
>
>Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector? I'm building
an RV-6
>with capacative senders. How do I solder the doggone thing without melting the
guts of
>the connector? Any types of soldering guns that are more suited to this than
others?
>And what type of solder should I use?
>
>Told ya these were crayon-level :-)
First, what kind of wire is intended to receive the BNC connector?
Is it a coaxial cable like RG-58, RG-142 or RG-400? If the
wire is a common coaxial cable used in radio antenna systems,
consider crimping the connector on. See:
http://209.134.106.21/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
and . . .
http://209.134.106.21/articles/coaxconn/coaxconn.html
If the connectors are unique to some special kind of
coaxial cable and crimped connectors are NOT an option,
then you've got your work cut out for you if you don't
have some spare connectors and wire on which to practice.
If you don't have experience with this operation, I
suggest you find someone in your neighborhood that does.
An electronic technician with a two-way radio company
would be a good bet.
You need to get some spare wire and connectors to train
on . . . I wouldn't recommend that anyone fly the
first soldered BNC connector that was part of their
Soldering 101 curriculum.
If you're forced to use the solder type connector then
slip the clamping nut, washer and gasket over the trimmed
end of the coax before you being to strip it.
Strip insulations and outer conductor to the dimensions
on the installation instructions for the type of connector
you are using. If the center conductor is stranded wire,
then "tin" the ends of exposed strands with just enough
solder to stick the ends of the strands together. This
operation is intended to immobilize the strands with
respect to each other and has nothing to do with the
integrity of the final soldered joint.
Fill the solder cup of connector's center pin with a
piece of .032" diameter wire solder. Just cut a piece
of solder long enough to be totally contained inside
the pin's wire opening.
Put coax in vise with end sticking out horizontally,
hold pin with needle nose pliers and apply heat to body
of pin while holding pin poised over end of coax center
conductor. As the solder inside melts, slip the pin down
over the wire.
When the joint cools, you can finish the connectors
assembly by adding the outer conductor clamp ring,
trimming the outer conductor so that the ends of the
strands project no more than 1/16th of inch beyond
the clamp surface and then push the body of the connector
down over the prepared ends.
Use a thin 7/16" wrench to gain a purchase on the
connector body's wrench flats and another 7/16"
wrench to snug the clamp nut down into the rear of
the connector.
In 1961, solder type BNCs was all we had. Got to
work on hundreds of these things early on in my career.
When affordable tools and crimp products came onto the
scene, it wasn't hard to convince me that I needed to
add solderless BNC capability to my toolbox!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground wire from aft mounted battery |
>
>Aeroelectriceers,
>
>I am working on the aft fuselage in a Harmon Rocket II (modified RV4, aft
>battery) and have closely followed Bob's wiring strategy. I spoke with
>someone who wired the ground side a bit different and it seems to work well
>and save quite a few lbs. I'm interested in possible downsides on this
>method.
>
>Instead of running an additional 2awg wire from the Battery Negative
>terminal to the engine, run a short length to the nearby 1/8" aluminum
>longeron (running the full length of the airplane). At the forward end, run
>a braid or wire to a firewall/engine mount bolt and from there to a ground
>block for the panel. On the engine side of that same firewall/engine mount
>bolt, run a braid to the engine case. This will save many feet of 2awg
>wire.
The scheme you describe has been used successfully in one
form or another on thousands of airplanes. I wouldn't worry
about a jumper from structure to the ground block at the front
end of the longeron.
How much is "many feet" of 2AWG wire? 2AWG wire weighs about
4 oz per foot . . . so a run of less than 12 feet will be
under three pounds. Not perhaps a compelling weight difference
but something to consider in your deliberations for weight
reduction versus system performance.
>Also, can the main positive lead from the master contactor be routed to an
>insulated stud on the firewall rather than having the wire go through to the
>starter contactor or is that too many connections.
Insulated feed-through studs are a practical way to bring
high quality, heavy current conductors through the firewall
and maintain good electrical insulation for the penetration.
HOWEVER, use only brass hardware and plan to cover the firewall
side of the device with fire-putty . . . there isn't a speedshop
feed-through out there that's truly qualified for firewall
service on aircraft.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
John Lawson wrote:
>
>
> OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
>
> Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector? I'm building
an RV-6
> with capacative senders. How do I solder the doggone thing without melting the
guts of
> the connector? Any types of soldering guns that are more suited to this than
others?
> And what type of solder should I use?
>
> Told ya these were crayon-level :-)
>
> Semper Fi
> John
> RV-6 (fuel tank for left wing)
>
John,
'Gun' usually implies too much heat & power for small
connectors. You can buy a pencil style iron & the proper
electronics grade solder at Radio Shack or other electronics
supply house for less than $10. Grind the tip to a longer,
round point. 'Tin' the hot tip with solder. Keep a damp rag
or sponge handy to clean the tip while working. (Pro's just
use their blue jeans. You can tell a pro by the linear scars
on his thighs from forgetting that he was wearing shorts.)
With the wire prepared & after test fitting in the
connector, wipe the hot iron's tip on the sponge, re-tin the
tip with a very small amount of solder (this aids heat
transfer; the black looking corrosion which forms on the tip
actually insulates the tip). Now 'tin' the bare wire end
with a *small* amount of solder & recheck its fit in the
connector. Clean the iron on the sponge again, re-tin the
iron with a *small* amount of solder, & apply heat to the
connector, if possible. Quickly start touching your solder
to the point where the wire & connector meet. The solder
should flow into the joint between the wire & the connector.
Note that you don't heat the solder with the iron, you heat
the connector & let it heat the solder. This insures that
everything got hot enough to make a proper joint. If it
takes longer than about 2 seconds to actually heat the
connector & flow the solder into the joint, something is
wrong; stop & analyze the problem. The technique is very
similar to 'sweating' a joint in copper pipe, except that
you cannot use the same solder (no acid flux allowed for
electronic work) & things happen much faster.
Charlie
Slobovia Outernational Airport
RV-4 (sold)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
John Lawson wrote:
>
>
> OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
>
> Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector?
*** This is a very well designed connector. All you solder is the center
pin. You slide the nut, rubber gasket, & washer onto the coax, trim the end
of the coax as appropriate, and solder the little tiny all-metal center pin
onto the coax. Then you push the rest of the connector onto the coax over
the center pin, and tighten the nut. Piece O'cake. See AC43-13 or the
Amateur Radio Handbook for precise instructions. Use ordinary rosin-core
radio solder.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
Bob
What difference is there in Fig Z-4 and new Fig Z-14. I cannot
see any difference. There may not be any, but I am using Z-4 and
wanted to make sure.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Engaged Confusion |
>
>Bob
>
>What difference is there in Fig Z-4 and new Fig Z-14. I cannot
>see any difference. There may not be any, but I am using Z-4 and
>wanted to make sure.
>
>Jim
There was a major correction to the diodes used on the
crossfeed contactor. Wired per figure Z-4 and the system
won't work right.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Basic tool kit for dealing with electrical "things" |
Hokay, another crayon-level question for the assembled multitudes...
I'm building an RV-6 (2/3 finished with the first - left - wing). I'm going to
put a
wing leveler or single-axis autopilot (maybe two-axis, if I can afford it) and
equip it
for basic IFR. I'm putting electric elevator and aileron trim on it.
I'm a novice when it comes to things electrical...that's why I bought 'The Aero-Electric
Connection' :-) I'm getting ready to start doing some "things electric"...what
would you
folks suggest I purchase in the way of tools and supplies in order to do a good
job of
building the airplane and maintaining it? I'm not D. Trump (no one...well, ok...most
people don't get rich in guvmint service), so I don't have a ton of $$, but I do
believe
firmly that good-quality tools pay for themselves many, many times over, both in
terms of
the quality of the work and in resale value...same goes for materials, in terms
of doing
a job that won't have to be done over again.
I had a lot of good suggestions from folks on the RV-list about buying sheet metal
tools,
and I'm looking for the same from the 'trons in the house. Any suggestions on
what I
should get, and where? Are there any "starter" tool kits available that are worth
looking at? (I told you I was at crayon level!).
Semper Fi
John
RV-6 (left wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | fuse on the buss wire? |
Bob- I understand the need to protect the Alt B lead at the battery
[protection is given to the wire to keep the battery from becoming an arc
welder if the wire shorts]
why isn't the lead from the batt contactor to the buss similarly protected?
Ralph Bookout, Certified Slumlord
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
Thanks Bob
I will discard Z-4 and use Z-14. Thanks again for all your great help!
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
Bob
I just compared my fig z-4 (rev 8/01) and can see no difference in
the diodes or there direction. I'm I missing something?
I spoke(emailed) to soon before I had a chance to check the
drawings.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Basic tool kit for dealing with electrical "things" |
John,
I purchased the terminal crimper and BNC crimping tool from 'lectric Bob's
associates at B&C Specialties. You may not need the BNC crimper, but the
terminal crimper is a must. I went Home Depot and bought a wire stripper
made by Ideal. I believe they call it an automatic stripper. Squeeze the
handle and it grips the wire and cuts the insulation and pulls it off in one
swoop. Also, some small wire cutters were purchased at Home Depot. Also
picked up some pin crimpers for the sub connectors at Radio Shack. I
haven't noticed a kit with all the right tools. I would start with the
terminal crimpers, wire strippers, and wire cutters for total layout of
about $55.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic tool kit for dealing with electrical
"things"
>
> Hokay, another crayon-level question for the assembled multitudes...
>
> I'm building an RV-6 (2/3 finished with the first - left - wing). I'm
going to put a
> wing leveler or single-axis autopilot (maybe two-axis, if I can afford it)
and equip it
> for basic IFR. I'm putting electric elevator and aileron trim on it.
>
> I'm a novice when it comes to things electrical...that's why I bought 'The
Aero-Electric
> Connection' :-) I'm getting ready to start doing some "things
electric"...what would you
> folks suggest I purchase in the way of tools and supplies in order to do a
good job of
> building the airplane and maintaining it? I'm not D. Trump (no
one...well, ok...most
> people don't get rich in guvmint service), so I don't have a ton of $$,
but I do believe
> firmly that good-quality tools pay for themselves many, many times over,
both in terms of
> the quality of the work and in resale value...same goes for materials, in
terms of doing
> a job that won't have to be done over again.
>
> I had a lot of good suggestions from folks on the RV-list about buying
sheet metal tools,
> and I'm looking for the same from the 'trons in the house. Any
suggestions on what I
> should get, and where? Are there any "starter" tool kits available that
are worth
> looking at? (I told you I was at crayon level!).
>
> Semper Fi
> John
> RV-6 (left wing)
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector
>
>
> >
> >OK, crayon-level time (in case you can't tell)...
> >
> >Any special considerations in soldering a wire to a BNC connector? I'm building
an RV-6
> >with capacative senders. How do I solder the doggone thing without melting the
guts of
> >the connector? Any types of soldering guns that are more suited to this than
others?
> >And what type of solder should I use?
> >
> >Told ya these were crayon-level :-)
>
> First, what kind of wire is intended to receive the BNC connector?
> Is it a coaxial cable like RG-58, RG-142 or RG-400? If the
> wire is a common coaxial cable used in radio antenna systems,
> consider crimping the connector on. See:
>
> http://209.134.106.21/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
>
> and . . .
>
> http://209.134.106.21/articles/coaxconn/coaxconn.html
>
Ah, drat...I should have told you what kind of BNC connector, I didn't realize
there were coax BNC connectors also...the plans show it as an "AV BNC 31-236-RFX
BNC Bulkhead Terminal." It has one verrrrrry little socket for a wire (18
AWG, I think).
>
> If the connectors are unique to some special kind of
> coaxial cable and crimped connectors are NOT an option,
> then you've got your work cut out for you if you don't
> have some spare connectors and wire on which to practice.
>
> If you don't have experience with this operation, I
> suggest you find someone in your neighborhood that does.
> An electronic technician with a two-way radio company
> would be a good bet.
>
> You need to get some spare wire and connectors to train
> on . . . I wouldn't recommend that anyone fly the
> first soldered BNC connector that was part of their
> Soldering 101 curriculum.
>
Good idea...I'm headed to Radio Shack today to get the necessary instructional
materials :-)
> If you're forced to use the solder type connector then
> slip the clamping nut, washer and gasket over the trimmed
> end of the coax before you being to strip it.
>
> Strip insulations and outer conductor to the dimensions
> on the installation instructions for the type of connector
> you are using. If the center conductor is stranded wire,
> then "tin" the ends of exposed strands with just enough
> solder to stick the ends of the strands together. This
> operation is intended to immobilize the strands with
> respect to each other and has nothing to do with the
> integrity of the final soldered joint.
>
> Fill the solder cup of connector's center pin with a
> piece of .032" diameter wire solder. Just cut a piece
> of solder long enough to be totally contained inside
> the pin's wire opening.
>
> Put coax in vise with end sticking out horizontally,
> hold pin with needle nose pliers and apply heat to body
> of pin while holding pin poised over end of coax center
> conductor. As the solder inside melts, slip the pin down
> over the wire.
>
> When the joint cools, you can finish the connectors
> assembly by adding the outer conductor clamp ring,
> trimming the outer conductor so that the ends of the
> strands project no more than 1/16th of inch beyond
> the clamp surface and then push the body of the connector
> down over the prepared ends.
>
> Use a thin 7/16" wrench to gain a purchase on the
> connector body's wrench flats and another 7/16"
> wrench to snug the clamp nut down into the rear of
> the connector.
>
> In 1961, solder type BNCs was all we had. Got to
> work on hundreds of these things early on in my career.
> When affordable tools and crimp products came onto the
> scene, it wasn't hard to convince me that I needed to
> add solderless BNC capability to my toolbox!
>
Thanks to you, Bob, and to the others who responded, much appreciated! :-) I'm
headed to the Shack and to Home Depot to give myself some early Christmas presents.
> *** This is a very well designed connector. All you solder is the center
> pin. You slide the nut, rubber gasket, & washer onto the coax, trim the end
> of the coax as appropriate, and solder the little tiny all-metal center pin
> onto the coax. Then you push the rest of the connector onto the coax over
> the center pin, and tighten the nut. Piece O'cake. See AC43-13 or the
> Amateur Radio Handbook for precise instructions. Use ordinary rosin-core
> radio solder.
Hmmm...there wasn't a rubber gasket in the little bag that the connector came in
(I just checked) - it does have a nut, a ring with a tab on it (tab has a hole
in it), both of which I presume go onto the barrel of the connector...But on
the plans I only see one wire leading to the end of the connector with the socket.
?
Semper Fi
John
RV-6 (left wing tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob
>
>I just compared my fig z-4 (rev 8/01) and can see no difference in
>the diodes or there direction. I'm I missing something?
>I spoke(emailed) to soon before I had a chance to check the
>drawings.
>Jim
You apparently downloaded the corrected Z-4 in August (the
original drawing was quite a lot older). Other than some
changes to correct errors in notes, etc., the Z-4 you
were working with was okay.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuse on the bus wire? |
>
>Bob- I understand the need to protect the Alt B lead at the battery
>[protection is given to the wire to keep the battery from becoming an arc
>welder if the wire shorts]
Actually, the greatest risk to that wire is from shorted
diodes inside the alternator . . . for short runs of HEAVY
wire, there is little risk of the wire itself getting
shorted to ground.
>why isn't the lead from the batt contactor to the buss similarly protected?
For the same reason as cited above. The large feeders are
not at much risk of shorting in a way that puts the wire
in jeopardy. We go to extra pains on installation to support
such conductors and minimize risks but they are already very
small. There are hundreds of thousands of airplanes that have
no "extra" protection of large power distribution feedlines.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dumb Questions |
>
>I purchased the Starter Contactor and the 20A Sealed Relay from your
>website, but I'm unsure which terminals to use for both of these items (I
>can figure that the big ones on the Intermittent Relay are form the battery
>and to the starter, but does it matter which one is which?) Which one of
>the little ones to use for the Starter Switch?
The two large terminals of the starter contactor are interchangeable.
These carry current from battery to starter motor when the button
is pushed. The solenoid coil of the starter contactor is internally
connected to the contactor's mounting base . . . so one connection
to the coil is achieved via attachment to grounded, metallic structure.
The "S" terminal is 10-32 thread and receives power to energize the
contactor via the starter switch. The "I" terminal is 8-32 thread
and is optionally used to supply power to a STARTER ENGAGED indicator
light. Most builders ignore this terminal.
> I have the same kind of
>questions regarding the little relay as well.
The two large tabs of the relay are interchangeable and are
connected to the switching contacts inside the relay. The
two small tabs are also interchangeable and supply power
to the solenoid coil that will energize the relay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Microair transponders |
Hey Bob,
Did you ever get any Microair transponders? I've got a 2 1/4" hole that
wants one and not much room in my radio stack.
Ed Holyoke
RV-6 QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
John Lawson wrote:
>
> Ah, drat...I should have told you what kind of BNC connector, I didn't
> realize there were coax BNC connectors also...the plans show it as an "AV
> BNC 31-236-RFX BNC Bulkhead Terminal." It has one verrrrrry little socket
> for a wire (18 AWG, I think).
>
*** Normally, one connects to a bulkhead connector by stripping the end of
the coax for about a half inch. You separate the braid and center into two
"wires". Solder a small ring termainal onto the braid end. Solder the
center conductor to the bulkhead connector. Terminate the braid by
fastening the ring terminal with one of the screws holding the bulkhead
connector.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
I looked on the B&C web site for crimpers as one lister suggested...no luck, doesn't
look like they're selling them any more. I find about a millyun different
types of crimpers (ok...well...mebbe not that many) on the Digi-Key web site...and
I found one in the Aircraft Spruce catalog...any suggestions on which
one I should
buy?
I'm crimping terminals for the capacitative fuel senders in the tank for my RV-6.
Help!
Lost in crimper land
John
RV-6 (left wing tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | spike catching diodes |
In a message dated 12/18/2001 2:52:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list- writes:
<<....skip.... Go to http://www.aeroelectric.com and click on link
to Article Reprints and Newsgroup Treads. On the
next page, find and click on "An illustrated discussion
about spike catching diodes and how they work.".....skip..... >>
12/18/01
Hello Bob, Thanks for your testing and detailed write up on this subject. But
I'm still left with some very simple layman's questions / doubts.
The diagram on page 212 of Tony Bingelis' book Firewall Forward provides a
basis for discussion / questions.
1) Does the diode always get installed so that it provides a connection
between the solenoid switch terminal and some other part of the circuit?
2) Does it matter which other part of the circuit that the diode connection
goes to? I see on Tony's diagram that the diode connection is made to the
plus or input side of the relay. I see that on your sketch you show the diode
connection going to ground. Which is correct / better?
3) When diagramming this diode connection which is the proper direction for
the diode triangle to be pointing? I see on Tony's diagram that the diode
triangle has the base connected to the solenoid switch terminal. I see on
your sketch that you have the point of the diode triangle connected to the
solenoid switch terminal (and the base of the triangle connected to ground).
4) When the switch has been closed for some time is there supposed to be any
current flow through the diode?
5) Which way is the current from the collapsing coil field supposed to flow
through the diode when the switch is opened? In the direction that the diode
triangle is pointing or opposite to the direction the diode triangle is
pointing?
6) When one has a diode in hand how can one tell by looking at its markings
which end the triangle is pointing towards?
Many thanks for your help.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
John,
I just finished wiring my entire plane (RV6, IFR). I used basically 3
different crimpers. Here's what I have.
1 pair (red) AMP 18-22 guage ratcheting crimpers. (EBAY)
1 pair (Blue)AMP 16-18 guage ratcheting crimpers. (EBAY)
1 pair of generic "snapon or channel-lock" multi crimpier/stripper
I also have a BNC crimper from Radio Shack which is working quite well. I
used my rivet squeezer with a home-made die to squeeze the #2 battery
cables, and the #8 bus wire.
Since I used cannon plugs in the firewall and subpanel, I have a cheap pair
of Radio Shack pin crimpers for the TypeIII Cannon Plug pins. This crimper
also worked for the molex pins (Narco) and the D-Sub pins for other
connectors.
You really don't need a huge selection, just make sure you get the basics.
The one thing I would recommend spending decent money on is a good set of
"ideal" wire strippers. These are the "automatic" kind that work all at
once. WAYYYYY better than the cheap generic onces, especially with Tefzel.
My total cost in Crimpers is under $75.00, but who's keeping track! I
swear, this part of the plane is going to nickel and dime me to DEATH!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis, Cowling.
.;..........................................................................
............................................................................
..........................................
I'm crimping terminals for the capacitative fuel senders in the tank for my
RV-6. Help!
Lost in crimper land
John
RV-6 (left wing tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob A" <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Hmmm...right there at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#rct-1
Rob Acker (RV-6, wired with the tool above).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
> Lawson
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:31 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers?
>
>
>
>
> I looked on the B&C web site for crimpers as one lister
> suggested...no luck, doesn't look like they're selling them any
> more. I find about a millyun different types of crimpers
> (ok...well...mebbe not that many) on the Digi-Key web site...and
> I found one in the Aircraft Spruce catalog...any suggestions on
> which one I should
> buy?
>
> I'm crimping terminals for the capacitative fuel senders in the
> tank for my RV-6. Help!
>
> Lost in crimper land
> John
> RV-6 (left wing tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
John,
The RCT-1 tool on B&C's site will do the terminals. The BCT-1 is for D-subs
and Molex type pins(like your wing light wires that plug in at the
fuselage). The RCT-2 is for BNC connectors.
I didn't crimp the awg18 to the inner BNC connection. Soldering and then
coating the BNC and 1 1/2" of the wire with proseal secures it. I talked to
the inventor of this setup and this is how he advised doing it.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers?
>
> I looked on the B&C web site for crimpers as one lister suggested...no
luck, doesn't look like they're selling them any more. I find about a
millyun different types of crimpers (ok...well...mebbe not that many) on the
Digi-Key web site...and I found one in the Aircraft Spruce catalog...any
suggestions on which one I should
> buy?
>
> I'm crimping terminals for the capacitative fuel senders in the tank for
my RV-6. Help!
>
> Lost in crimper land
> John
> RV-6 (left wing tank)
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Hi Everyone , I don't chime in often but I've read promotion , of late , of
the "Ideal" brand of automatic (single action) wire strippers . Everyone is
welcome to use what they want or can afford but the Feds do not approve of
these wire strippers because they truly do NOT have the performance
capabilities of the similar style of strippers that use dies in place of the
sharp edged $ 20 version . The "die" types are about $ 125 & they will
virtually NEVER nick the wire or remove any strands . The only safe way to
use the cheapies for aviation use is to visually inspect EVERY strip with
great lighting & a jewelers loop to assure no nicks occured & all strands are
present ! Are you really making any of your homebuilt dream "pretty good" or
"good enough" ?? Then don't do it to the wire . The entire plane is
obviously no better than it's weakest link & if it's an IFR bird it can be
even more crucial that you maximize electrical integrity . Any wire bound for
a crimped pin that is missing a single strand will be crimped to the wrong
calibration . Just MHO & I welcome correction/critisism . FWIW I've seen
multiple listings of the "die" type on Ebay & I got 5 pair of the
"Stripmaster" wirestrippers for $ 75 total ! The auction seller was
ebayqotm(at)hotmail.com . I believe she has more . I already had buddies that
wanted the extras I had , but a few of you could go in on several & save big
! She had them in 10, 12, 14 gauge & 16 thru 26 gauge . Good Luck , Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Chris -
But the ones you bought *are* the "Ideal" brand, and they *also* use
knife-edge cutting surfaces - I've been using them for years in
manufacturing. Incidentally, they are essentially identical to the ones
from Radio Shack - I used to pay $31 through my industrial supply house,
until I realized they were the same as the ones at Radio Shack, but less
than 1/2 the price (I thought they were $15 - but the catalog shows
12.99?).
<http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F005%5F009%5F000&product%5Fid=64%2D1919>
-John
CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Everyone , I don't chime in often but I've read promotion , of late , of
> the "Ideal" brand of automatic (single action) wire strippers . Everyone is
> welcome to use what they want or can afford but the Feds do not approve of
> these wire strippers because they truly do NOT have the performance
> capabilities of the similar style of strippers that use dies in place of the
> sharp edged $ 20 version . The "die" types are about $ 125 & they will
> virtually NEVER nick the wire or remove any strands . The only safe way to
> use the cheapies for aviation use is to visually inspect EVERY strip with
> great lighting & a jewelers loop to assure no nicks occured & all strands are
> present ! Are you really making any of your homebuilt dream "pretty good" or
> "good enough" ?? Then don't do it to the wire . The entire plane is
> obviously no better than it's weakest link & if it's an IFR bird it can be
> even more crucial that you maximize electrical integrity . Any wire bound for
> a crimped pin that is missing a single strand will be crimped to the wrong
> calibration . Just MHO & I welcome correction/critisism . FWIW I've seen
> multiple listings of the "die" type on Ebay & I got 5 pair of the
> "Stripmaster" wirestrippers for $ 75 total ! The auction seller was
> ebayqotm(at)hotmail.com . I believe she has more . I already had buddies that
> wanted the extras I had , but a few of you could go in on several & save big
> ! She had them in 10, 12, 14 gauge & 16 thru 26 gauge . Good Luck , Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
----- Original Message -----
From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!!
Chris,
Your points have merit, but I can't resist.
> Hi Everyone , I don't chime in often but I've read promotion , of late ,
of
> the "Ideal" brand of automatic (single action) wire strippers . Everyone
is
> welcome to use what they want or can afford but the Feds do not approve of
> these wire strippers because they truly do NOT have the performance
> capabilities of the similar style of strippers that use dies in place of
the
> sharp edged $ 20 version . The "die" types are about $ 125 & they will
> virtually NEVER nick the wire or remove any strands . The only safe way to
My RV the experimental way = +/- $45k
My RV the Fed way = +/-$450,000 ;
)
> use the cheapies for aviation use is to visually inspect EVERY strip with
> great lighting & a jewelers loop to assure no nicks occured & all strands
are
> present ! Are you really making any of your homebuilt dream "pretty good"
or
> "good enough" ?? Then don't do it to the wire . The entire plane is
> obviously no better than it's weakest link & if it's an IFR bird it can be
> even more crucial that you maximize electrical integrity . Any wire bound
for
> a crimped pin that is missing a single strand will be crimped to the wrong
> calibration . Just MHO & I welcome correction/critisism . FWIW I've seen
> multiple listings of the "die" type on Ebay & I got 5 pair of the
My "Ideal" brand wirestrippers ARE Stripmasters! Says so right on 'em!
Paid about the same price as ebay.
> "Stripmaster" wirestrippers for $ 75 total ! The auction seller was
> ebayqotm(at)hotmail.com . I believe she has more . I already had buddies that
> wanted the extras I had , but a few of you could go in on several & save
big
> ! She had them in 10, 12, 14 gauge & 16 thru 26 gauge . Good Luck , Chris
No flame! Just another opinion, which we all are welcome to have.
Good day,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
In a message dated 12/19/2001 2:07:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
john@allied-computer.com writes:
> Chris -
>
> But the ones you bought *are* the "Ideal" brand, and they *also* use
> knife-edge cutting surfaces - I've been using them for years in
> manufacturing. Incidentally, they are essentially identical to the ones
> from Radio Shack - I used to pay $31 through my industrial supply house,
> until I realized they were the same as the ones at Radio Shack, but less
> than 1/2 the price (I thought they were $15 - but the catalog shows
> 12.99?).
>
> <http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&
> category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F005%5F009%5F000&product%5Fid=64%2D1919>
>
> -John
>
Hi John , I'll conceed the Brands are alike but on the rest I have to
disagree . I'll happily take macro photos of the two major differences in the
two types of strippers & send them to you if it will clarify . The "die" are
not sharp , which is why they do the least damage to the wire . The other
major diff to compensate for the dull dies is the side of the tool that grips
& holds the insulation consists of stippled metal surfaces that are equal to
approx. 80 grit sandpaper in roughness to better grip Tefzel etc ....Check
out the surfaces on the cheap version . This is the other reason why the
production cost hence selling price is higher . Take care , Chris .
________________________________________________________________________________
John:
Check these out: http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/EclipseCrimpTools.html
and http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/SargentBrandCrimpers.html.
Both ratcheting crimpers with interchangeable die sets for a good price.
Gaylen Lerohl
Terminaltown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers?
>
> I looked on the B&C web site for crimpers as one lister suggested...no
luck, doesn't look like they're selling them any more. I find about a
millyun different types of crimpers (ok...well...mebbe not that many) on the
Digi-Key web site...and I found one in the Aircraft Spruce catalog...any
suggestions on which one I should
> buy?
>
> I'm crimping terminals for the capacitative fuel senders in the tank for
my RV-6. Help!
>
> Lost in crimper land
> John
> RV-6 (left wing tank)
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: crimpers - thanks! |
John Lawson wrote:
>
> -->
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about a source for crimpers. I
> went right by those URLs that y'all sent me, if they'd been snakes I'd
> have been bitten. Thanks for pointing them out!
*** The Sargent crimper is an especially good unit. It has a finer-toothed
ratchet than the Taiwanese ones, and the handles fold into each other ( one
handle is wider than the other ) for better ergonomics ( it's easier for
the hand to squeeze something small and close together than something wide
and far apart ).
In a Light Plane Maintenance crimper shootout, the Sargent outperformed
everything except the $300 AMP crimper.
That being said, I bought the Ideal ( Taiwanese ) crimper. It was
perfectly adequate for my purposes, and the local electronics store had a
wide selection of dies for it.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>> I looked on the B&C web site for crimpers as one lister suggested...no
>luck, doesn't look like they're selling them any more. I find about a
>millyun different types of crimpers (ok...well...mebbe not that many) on the
>Digi-Key web site...and I found one in the Aircraft Spruce catalog...any
>suggestions on which one I should . . .
Never did sell the die sets. The Coax and PIDG tools on our site
have removable dies and COULD be interchanged. When I first
began to offer them about 5 years ago, I considered selling
handles and die sets.
Harking back over 40+ years of experience, I KNEW that keeping
loose parts for tools in close proximity to the body of the
tool was an iffy proposition. It doesn't take
very many incidences of misplaced or lost parts to gobble up
productive time exceeding the value of the tool when it comes
time to change the color of a crimp tool's spots . . .
That's why I elected to offer each tool complete to the
intended task with the knowledge that when I'm ready to
do the job, the tool is ready to support the effort.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Stein Bruch wrote:
> You make a good point and I definately agree with you on the "Mil-Spec"
> quality strippers. They do a better job, but it's all relative. Even the
> Mil-Spec strippers will nick the wire somewhat. From my airline employment
> days, I had the fortune of sitting in a class where we inspected wires
> stripped with dozens of kinds of strippers under a HIGH power microscope.
>
> OK, here's the big point. ANY stripper which uses "mecahnical"
> cutters/teeth will leave a scar on the wire somewhere.
*** I believe AC43-13 has a table somewhere showing how many strands can be
nicked or broken for different sizes of wire for an acceptable joint.
Probably mostly applies to larger wire sizes.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
I have a electric thermal wire stripper that I would like to use when
wiring my plane. Unfortunately, it has a burnt jaw (or thermal element),
which is replaceable. Does anyone know where I could get a new set of
jaws... Radio Shack has never heard of a thermal wire stripper. Go figure!
>
>Stein Bruch wrote:
> > You make a good point and I definately agree with you on the "Mil-Spec"
> > quality strippers. They do a better job, but it's all relative. Even the
> > Mil-Spec strippers will nick the wire somewhat. From my airline employment
> > days, I had the fortune of sitting in a class where we inspected wires
> > stripped with dozens of kinds of strippers under a HIGH power microscope.
> >
> > OK, here's the big point. ANY stripper which uses "mecahnical"
> > cutters/teeth will leave a scar on the wire somewhere.
>
>*** I believe AC43-13 has a table somewhere showing how many strands can be
>nicked or broken for different sizes of wire for an acceptable joint.
>Probably mostly applies to larger wire sizes.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Well, now I feel like a dummy! A simple web search turned up a plethora of
sources for this. The first site
(http://www.teledyneinterconnect.com/products/wire_strippers/wirestrip_esd.asp)
handles both Stripall and EDS. I think mine is an EDS brand (see
attachment). They have a directory by state for suppliers. I think I have
the riddle solved. This thread on stripping wires has been enlightening.
>
>
>I have a electric thermal wire stripper that I would like to use when
>wiring my plane. Unfortunately, it has a burnt jaw (or thermal element),
>which is replaceable. Does anyone know where I could get a new set of
>jaws... Radio Shack has never heard of a thermal wire stripper. Go figure!
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/18/01 6:43:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
<< jwlawson(at)hargray.com >>
Hi John: I just bought a terminal crimper from B&C less than two weeks ago
and ordered it from their web site. Try again. I have several times been
unable to find stuff on their web site that I know they carry, then I go back
a few days later and, lo and behold, there it is. Being somewhat computer
challenged (ig'nernt) I don't have any idea what I'm doing wrong in the off
times. Sometimes I have better luck going to B&C via the link on Bob
Nuckoll's site (www.aeroelectric.com).
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi guys -
Go to B&C by clicking on the link at Bob's AeroElectricConnection web
site - I don't think the products we're talking about are "reachable"
from the B&C home page (only starters and generators and stuff).
I too couldn't navigate B&C very well - only way to get there is via
AEC web site I think.
Bill
>
>In a message dated 12/18/01 6:43:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
>
><< jwlawson(at)hargray.com >>
>
>Hi John: I just bought a terminal crimper from B&C less than two weeks ago
>and ordered it from their web site. Try again. I have several times been
>unable to find stuff on their web site that I know they carry, then I go back
>a few days later and, lo and behold, there it is. Being somewhat computer
>challenged (ig'nernt) I don't have any idea what I'm doing wrong in the off
>times. Sometimes I have better luck going to B&C via the link on Bob
>Nuckoll's site (www.aeroelectric.com).
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop1(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
> OK, here's the big point. ANY stripper which uses "mecahnical"
> > cutters/teeth will leave a scar on the wire somewhere.
>
>*** I believe AC43-13 has a table somewhere showing how many strands can be
>nicked or broken for different sizes of wire for an acceptable joint.
'lectrik Bob:
How about weighing in on this thread.
Do we need to put up with the inconvenience of using a thermal
stripper or is a more portable mechanical stripper adequate?
What is the best approach to one or more mechanical wire strippers for our use?
I notice that you don't have one in your catalog. Is that because you
don't have a recommendation? I asked for a recommendation when I
ordered some terminals and a crimper last week. I was told that they
were using "stripmasters" in the shop, but didn't specify whether
it was the "cutter" style or the "Custom Stripmaster" "die-type"
stripper.
I have a $20 "cutter style" Stripmaster for use on #22 to #10 wire
that I have been using for everyday wiring jobs around the house.
Do I need to buy a milspec Custom stripper (strippers) for my project?
It looks like that could get pretty pricey pretty quick. I notice
that the Ideal Customs do not handle a very wide range of wire sizes
and that they list different strippers for PVC and Teflon coated
wires.
So what is the answer for those of us suffering from "stripperphobia?"
I am not far enough along to know what wire sizes I will be dealing
with, but I would imagine that the bulk of them will fall within a
small range of sizes.
Which sizes?
Thanks
--
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian & Debi Shannon" <wings(at)theshannons.net> |
| Subject: | Coax Feedline Question |
Bob or anyone,
Is there any reason not to run two coax feedlines down the fuselage
(composite) right next to each other after they have been routed away from
their respective foil antennas (preferrably at an initial 90 deg angle from
the antenna)?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Where can I get a good pair of wire stripers and crimpers?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
that's strippers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Some people might think it's a waste of money, and I'm sure there are more
economical and even better ways to do it, but I went out and bought the AMP
Pro-Crimper with PIDG dies and Stripmaster from Techni-tool. With the
amount of money spent on the plane and the amount of wires that have to be
connected, the cost of the tools becomes insignificant compared to the
absolute pleasure of working with quality and confidence. This is the most
enjoyable part of building so far and I consider these "lifetime" tools. I
may have to build another plane to justify the cost but that's the price I'm
willing to pay ;<}. The mil stripper p/n that I got is 462ST11Q, it is an
Ideal Stripmaster for tefzel wire and it has the one cutter with sizes from
16-26 ga. www.techni-tool.com
Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aucountry(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!!
>
> Where can I get a good pair of wire stripers and crimpers?
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <nthomas(at)mmcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
Yesterday our neighbor lady came over. She's got quite a bit of country in
her. She seen my computer screen which happened to be a full page listing
of the aeroelectric emails I received lately. There was a whole list of
pretty much nothing but Wire Stripping!!!!!!! Which she read We're
Stripping!!!!!!! She of course wanted to know what kind of computer
discussion group would be stripping.....
Just a little humor....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!!
>
> Some people might think it's a waste of money, and I'm sure there are more
> economical and even better ways to do it, but I went out and bought the
AMP
> Pro-Crimper with PIDG dies and Stripmaster from Techni-tool. With the
> amount of money spent on the plane and the amount of wires that have to be
> connected, the cost of the tools becomes insignificant compared to the
> absolute pleasure of working with quality and confidence. This is the
most
> enjoyable part of building so far and I consider these "lifetime" tools.
I
> may have to build another plane to justify the cost but that's the price
I'm
> willing to pay ;<}. The mil stripper p/n that I got is 462ST11Q, it is an
> Ideal Stripmaster for tefzel wire and it has the one cutter with sizes
from
> 16-26 ga. www.techni-tool.com
>
> Gary K.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Aucountry(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!!
>
>
> >
> > Where can I get a good pair of wire stripers and crimpers?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
In a message dated 12/20/01 5:33:22 AM, flyink(at)efortress.com writes:
<< and I'm sure there are more
economical and even better ways to do it, but I went out and bought the AMP
Pro-Crimper with PIDG dies and Stripmaster from Techni-tool. >>
OK, I'm being lazy, where are they, do they have a web site, what is their
phone number?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Quilters Confectionery <qltconf(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | In-Line fuse for Certified Aircraft - Cessna 150 Cigaret |
AD
AD 79-08-03 applies to my Cessna 150 H.
___________The important part is (this is not a complete copy - only an
extract)___________________
To prevent an inflight electrical system failure, smoke in the cockpit,
and/or fire in the wire
bundle behind the instrument panel, accomplish the following:
A) Disconnect the wire, at the ammeter or at the electrical system bus as
applicable, that connects the bus to the cigar lighter receptacle.
Following the disconnection of this wire either:
1) Reconnect the wire to the electrical bus by using an existing or newly
installed circuit protection device that is properly rated to protect the
wire gauge used for this circuit, or
2) Disconnect the wire from the lighter receptacle at the opposite end and
remove it from the airplane, or
3) Protect the wire by insulating its disconnected end, fold this wire end
back against the wire
bundle in which it is routed and secure it to that bundle.
NOTE: For those installations reconnected in accordance with paragraph A 1
the proper rated circuit protection device to be used may be determined by
consulting FAA Advisory Circular 43.13-1A.
____________________________ end of extract
____________________________________
My aircraft has had method 3 applied. I need my Cigaret Lighter back in
operation to power things like my Anywhere Map system (wonderful). To do
this, I want to go to method 1 - fuse in line with cigaret lighter
My simple question is; Where can I get an in-line fuse holder that is
approved for certified airplane use? I know we are not suppose to go to the
local Ace hardware store for screws (mine all come from Spruce and I keep
the records to be able to prove it). Does not sound right to go to the
local Radio Shack for a fuse holder. I even looked in the WAG Aero catalog
which specifies if an item is for certified aircraft (I like that) but no
fuse holders. Spruce has them but no statement about being for certified
aircraft. I think my A&P will sign off on the install but he is stickler
for source of parts (good). I am confident this group has the answer.
Sorry so long but to get a complete answer one needs a complete question
and data behind it.
Happy Holidays to All, Larry Owner/Operator N22027 :-)
PS Bought Revision 10 The Aero Connection Book. It is absolutely wonderful!
Best investment I have made in understanding things in my fun machine that
the typical A&P's I have encountered are not able to help with.
http://www.quiltsweets.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | KLN94 GPS Wiring |
Does anyone have the wiring schematic for the external connection to the
KLN94. I would like to build a docking station for the "take home mode."
According to the Pilot's Guide, all you have to do is ground the appropriate
pin at the back of the unit...removed from the aircraft, of course. And hook
up a power supply.
John Brick
Tacoma
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: In-Line fuse for Certified Aircraft - Cessna 150 |
Cigar...
In a message dated 12/20/2001 12:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
qltconf(at)earthlink.net writes:
> My simple question is; Where can I get an in-line fuse holder that is
> approved for certified airplane use? I know we are not suppose to go to the
> local Ace hardware store for screws (mine all come from Spruce and I keep
>
Hi Larry , Spruce ALSO has the nice "legal" bayonet (front load) fuse holders
in thier catalog (P/N FU002) . Happy Holidays ! , Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In-Line fuse for Certified Aircraft - Cessna 150 |
Cigar...
>
>In a message dated 12/20/2001 12:48:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>qltconf(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>> My simple question is; Where can I get an in-line fuse holder that is
>> approved for certified airplane use? I know we are not suppose to go to the
>> local Ace hardware store for screws (mine all come from Spruce and I keep
>>
>
>Hi Larry , Spruce ALSO has the nice "legal" bayonet (front load) fuse holders
>in thier catalog (P/N FU002) . Happy Holidays ! , Chris
There's no such thing as an "approved fuse holder" . . . there are
lots of products used on certified airplanes because they were on
the drawings that fabricated the airplane the day it was certified.
An aircraft manufacturer can put virtually ANYTHING on the airplane
they choose as long as it meets all of the requirements for suitability
to the intended task.
A Bussmann HKP panel mounted fuse holder was used on thousands
of Cessnas and Pipers in the early days of electrification of
airplanes . . . but the HKP is neither certified nor approved
for any application other than to replace a damaged fuseholder
where the drawings call out that product . . . and then only
if you buy the fuseholder through the OEM's service-parts
system . . . ostensibly to insure that you're getting the
REAL part and not some bogus substitute.
Technically, the only legal replacement for the fuse is one
acquired through Cessna service parts. Obviously, it probably
came right out of Bussmann's or Littlefuse's catalogs. Just
because Aircraft Spruce says "this part is 'legal' or 'used
on certified ships' does not make it a shoo-in for your
problem if you're really concerned about the legalities of
so trivial an item.
IF the legalities are important to you. Get the part from
Cessna service parts and take the hit. Otherwise, go down
to the local automotive parts store and get something that's
rated to do the task and just don't tell anyone about it.
The later action has a better than even chance that you'll
get a part that is BETTER than the one originally certified
onto the airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coax Feedline Question |
>
>Bob or anyone,
>
> Is there any reason not to run two coax feedlines down the fuselage
>(composite) right next to each other after they have been routed away from
>their respective foil antennas (preferrably at an initial 90 deg angle from
>the antenna)?
>
>Thanks
None whatsoever . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Stripping !!!!!!!!! |
>
>> OK, here's the big point. ANY stripper which uses "mecahnical"
>> > cutters/teeth will leave a scar on the wire somewhere.
>>
>>*** I believe AC43-13 has a table somewhere showing how many strands can be
>>nicked or broken for different sizes of wire for an acceptable joint.
>
>'lectrik Bob:
>
>How about weighing in on this thread.
>
>Do we need to put up with the inconvenience of using a thermal
>stripper or is a more portable mechanical stripper adequate?
Before anyone runs out and buys anything expensive . . . let
me finish a "shop notes" addition to the website. I've been
following the thread and there's just enough truth in each
admonition to lend credence to a lot of misunderstanding.
I'll try to have it done this weekend . . . as an advance
teaser, I can tell you that I'd have no problems wiring up
an airplane with a $3 pair of strippers from Radio Shack . . .
there are more CONVENIENT tools but it doesn't take a lot of
practice or skill to get by inexpensively either.
Got the piece illustrated and about half written last night. I
need to take care of some customers for a couple of days.
More to come soon . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <turboflyer(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Transponder antenna location |
Is it possible to run two transponder antennas for the same transponder?
Mine is blocked in the forward position by my radiator. Until I make a metal
radiator scoop and mount to it at the lowest point, I am stuck.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Navaid and KLX135A |
Hello all,
I have a friend with a BendixKing KLX135A and a Navaid wing leveler. We can't
get them to couple. Friends of ours say you can't use a 135A with the Navaid,
They've tried the filter they've tried the smart coupler. Navaid says its the
signal from the 135A and Bendix King says its the Navaid. Does anyone one
know of someone who has that combo and has them working together?
Thanks for your time,
SteveD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: In-Line fuse for Certified Aircraft - Cessna |
150 Cigar...
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> IF the legalities are important to you. Get the part from
> Cessna service parts and take the hit.
*** Another possibility is to fill out a 337, get something MIL-spec or
somesuch and get a field approval for it. Takes a cooperative FSDO
inspector. And it helps if the part has been used in some other
certificated aircraft, or is MIL-spec so he won't feel he's sticking his
neck out too far.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Grosvenor" <dwg(at)iafrica.com> |
I bought a Cessna comm antenna at the Fly Mart at AirVenture. When I
measure the resistance between the outside of the BNC and the centre pin, I
get 0 ohms (measured on the antenna, nothing else connected). Is there
something inside these antennas that will make it look like a short circuit
or is this thing dead? It's so simple I can't see how it can go faulty.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Kluijfhout, PE1RUI" <jessevli(at)zeelandnet.nl> |
Hi Dave,
Its possible that it looks like a short circuit, because
you measured resistances.
You should measure the resistances on the frequency
you want to use it.. (That the impedance of a
certain frequency). and not the DC resistance youve
measured..
There are special antenna analyzer which can do
this job for you.
You could try simpler by connect the antenna to youre
receiver, try to listen to a local frequency and notice
if it does work or not...
If it does, check the SWR with an SWR analizer.
These are much cheaper than a antenna analyzer.
You also could ask a local avionics shop or a
local ham radio amateur, who might be willing to
help you and let them borrow there SWR meter, or
they might will be test it for you.
Than youre sure.
Regards,
Jesse
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave Grosvenor wrote:
>
>
> I bought a Cessna comm antenna at the Fly Mart at AirVenture. When I
> measure the resistance between the outside of the BNC and the centre pin, I
> get 0 ohms (measured on the antenna, nothing else connected). Is there
> something inside these antennas that will make it look like a short circuit
> or is this thing dead? It's so simple I can't see how it can go faulty.
>
*** It's common to have inductors or matching transformers insdie an antenna
that will make it look like a short to DC. I would hook the antenna up to
a handheld or a scanner and see if it receives well. Make sure you use a
piece of coax so both "sides" of the antenna circuit are connected.
If it receives well, compared to a hunk of wire ( say 21" of wire )
stuck into the center pin of the receiver input connector, then it's
probably OK.
It's also possible for an antenna to have a real internal short. So
I would check it out before installing it, especially before transmitting on
it. Otherwise, you could damage your transmitter.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
>
>
> Is it possible to run two transponder antennas for the same transponder?
>Mine is blocked in the forward position by my radiator. Until I make a metal
>radiator scoop and mount to it at the lowest point, I am stuck.
>
>Rick
Not without more difficulty that you'd like to
put up with. You might mount it temporarily as far
aft as you can . . . perhaps back behind the seats.
The degree of shadowing may be very small to negligible
from that location.
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A question on split battery electrical systems |
>Robert:
>
>Thanks for your great website and your kind responses to my past questions. I
>have another general question for which I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased that you
find the information useful. . .
>
>I have been pursuing the design of an all electrical panel for my Europa which
>at this point includes an auxiliary alternator on the vacuum pad of the Rotax
914
>and appropriate bussing as per The Aeroelectric Connection. Since the 914
>vacuum pad turns about 20% slower than a Lycoming pad, the output of an SD-8
>might be marginal; An SD-20 would do better, but may not fit. But what of that.
First, are you sure you need dual alternators? How
do you plan to use the airplane? The ignition systems
on a 914 are self powered so the only thing you need to
do is keep the panel lit up.
>
>The forward CG bias of a 914 installation - indeed, any installation with an Airmaster
>CS prop - usually means that the battery must be installed behind the seats with
a
>commensurately heavy (7-8 lbs) run of welder's cables forward to the starter.
Several builders
>have used two batteries, though for redundancy rather than what I'm thinking of.
>
>My thought is to use one of the newer "high-crank-amps" batteries in the engine
>compartment with a short run of cables to the alternator and contactor, and a
fairly
>small standard battery in the back for other system electrical loads. This could
save
>weight, because:
>1. The total weight of the two batteries would be less than one large battery
>2. the interconnecting cables could be thin gauge (10 or 12) and therefore much
lighter
>3. the overall AH capacity of the system might be reduced since (it seems to me)
that the AH
> rating of a battery is determined by cranking capability first and system
load demands 2nd.
> If a modest size battery with very low internal resistance is used, this could
be the equivalent
> of a larger battery with higher resistance.
>
>Have you had any experience with such "high-crank-amps" batteries or distributed
systems
>such as what I am proposing?
Cranking will not be an issue if you use recombinant gas
(RG) batteries. All you need to concern yourself with is
alternator-out endurance. What is your minimum electrical
load for comfortable termination of flight? Even with
electric gyros, you can probably get this down to under
5 amps. If you need 3-4 hour endurance, then a 24 a.h.
battery that is monitored for capacity (or simply replaced
every two years) would cover you.
I don't think I'd want to hose up a really nice airplane
by loading it down with so much electrical hardware if we
can keep it simple, easy to install and low cost to install
and maintain.
>
>PS. Where can one get one of the "good" contactors shown on your website?
All of the products on our website are sold from the catalog
index/order form at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector |
>
>>
>
>Ah, drat...I should have told you what kind of BNC connector, I didn't realize
there were coax BNC connectors also...the plans show it as an "AV BNC 31-236-RFX
BNC Bulkhead Terminal." It has one verrrrrry little socket for a wire (18
AWG, I think).
18AWG!!!!???!!! what coax needing a BNC connector
has this big a wire down the middle?
Did a search on the part number and couldn't turn
anything up. Do you know who makes the connector?
Brand name on package?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
>
>
> >
> >
> > Is it possible to run two transponder antennas for the same transponder?
> >Mine is blocked in the forward position by my radiator. Until I make a
> >metal radiator scoop and mount to it at the lowest point, I am stuck.
> >
> >Rick
>
> Not without more difficulty that you'd like to
> put up with. You might mount it temporarily as far
> aft as you can . . . perhaps back behind the seats.
> The degree of shadowing may be very small to negligible
> from that location.
>
> Bob. . .
>
In our Glasair 1 we ended up moving the antenna clear back in front
of the tail on the belly from under the seat between the gear legs.
It worked better , but still had a weak area directly ahead. I think
the engine blocked it in that direction.
Jim
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> members.
> http://www.matronics.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/22/01 |
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Connecting a wire to a BNC connector
>
>
> >
> >>
> >
> >Ah, drat...I should have told you what kind of BNC connector, I didn't realize
there were coax BNC connectors also...the plans show it as an "AV BNC 31-236-RFX
BNC Bulkhead Terminal." It has one verrrrrry little socket for a wire (18
AWG, I think).
>
> 18AWG!!!!???!!! what coax needing a BNC connector
> has this big a wire down the middle?
>
> Did a search on the part number and couldn't turn
> anything up. Do you know who makes the connector?
> Brand name on package?
>
Ah, my untrained and uneducated mind sez it probably isn't coax. Sorry about that,
I think I confused you with my remark about coax connectors. I took that
part number off the Van's plans for the capacative fuel senders (they are to
be hooked up to the
EI fuel gauges that Van's sells). The connector fits into the inboard (root) rib
for the fuel tank. There's one socket on the end of the connector that is
inside the tank. The end inside the tank also has threads and a nut (to keep
the connector from
falling out of the hole)...there's also a small ring with a tab and a hole in the
tab, I presume the ring goes on the connector and is for another wire? Altho
in the plans, I only see one wire...
The wire goes from the connector to the next rib outboard, where it is connected
to the inboard sender plate. The wire then goes to the fifth rib outboard,
where it connects to the sender plate there.
The bag that the connector came in didn't have a part number of brand name, maybe
EI makes or sells them? Perhaps it'd be worth an email to Van's to ask about
it? Maybe some of the other RV builders can jump in here and help?
Semper Fi
John
RV-6 (left wing fuel tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Using BNC connectors |
In a message dated 12/23/2001 2:52:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
<>
And Bob Nuckolls responds:
<<18AWG!!!!???!!! what coax needing a BNC connector has this big a wire
down the middle? Did a search on the part number and couldn't turn anything
up. Do you know who makes the connector? Brand name on package? Bob . . . >>
12/23/01
Hello John and Bob, May I attempt to contribute / clarify?
1) John, BNC connectors are designed to only connect coaxial wires / cables.
2) John, It is still not clear exactly what problem you are trying to solve.
I believe that you are attempting to use a particular type of BNC bulkhead
connector (31-236) to connect some non coaxial fuel quantity system wiring.
Is that right? (I also note that type 31-236 is not for pressurized use. Will
that make a leakage difference?)
3) Bob, type 31-236 (not a part number) 50 OHM MIL UG-625B Bulkhead BNC
receptacles are made by Amphenol (among others). Newark stock number is
39F1337.
4) John, any time that you start using an object for an outside of intended
designed purpose you must expect to do some freelancing / innovation / head
scratching to make make it all fit or work.
5) John, when you ask a question in this forum the more specific and complete
information that you can provide initially the better chance you have of
getting a quicker meaningful / useful answer.
Please let us know when / if the issue is resolved / understood. Thanks.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/23/01 |
> From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Using BNC connectors
>
>
> In a message dated 12/23/2001 2:52:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
>
> < realize there were coax BNC connectors also...the plans show it as an "AV BNC
> 31-236-RFX BNC Bulkhead Terminal." It has one verrrrrry little socket for a
> wire (18 AWG, I think).>>
>
> And Bob Nuckolls responds:
>
> <<18AWG!!!!???!!! what coax needing a BNC connector has this big a wire
> down the middle? Did a search on the part number and couldn't turn anything
> up. Do you know who makes the connector? Brand name on package? Bob . . . >>
>
> 12/23/01
>
> Hello John and Bob, May I attempt to contribute / clarify?
>
> 1) John, BNC connectors are designed to only connect coaxial wires / cables.
OK, I think I finally figured that out. :-)
> 2) John, It is still not clear exactly what problem you are trying to solve.
It's a Van's RV-6, I'm installing capacative senders for the EI fuel quantity gauge
per the plans and directions supplied by Van's.
> I believe that you are attempting to use a particular type of BNC bulkhead
> connector (31-236) to connect some non coaxial fuel quantity system wiring.
> Is that right? (I also note that type 31-236 is not for pressurized use. Will
> that make a leakage difference?)
That's correct. It's a non-pressurized tank, so using the connector doesn't appear
to be a problem.
> 3) Bob, type 31-236 (not a part number) 50 OHM MIL UG-625B Bulkhead BNC
> receptacles are made by Amphenol (among others). Newark stock number is
> 39F1337.
>
> 4) John, any time that you start using an object for an outside of intended
> designed purpose you must expect to do some freelancing / innovation / head
> scratching to make make it all fit or work.
Hmmmmmm....I didn't know that that particular part was outside of its intended
purpose...as I mentioned, I took all of the information right off the drawing
and instructions that Van's supplied.
> 5) John, when you ask a question in this forum the more specific and complete
> information that you can provide initially the better chance you have of
> getting a quicker meaningful / useful answer.
Understand and agree. The part number shown on the drawing is all I have...no
manufacturer, no MS or AN number, no nuthin'. I even searched Van's parts list
and catalog, and couldn't find it, nor could I find it in the Spruce catalog.
I think what
confused Bob was my mention of "coax" when I said I didn't know that both coax
and non-coax BNC connectors.
Thanks for your input, hopefully what you found will help Bob (and me!).
Semper Fi
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
Hi, Bob, and everyone else on the List, Merry Christmas. I have a question
in this vein. Right now I am in the middle of changing over the wheel pants
on my RV-6A from the old style to the new 2-piece "pressure recovery" pants.
These pants are quite generous in size, and come with a substantial, flat
fiberglass/epoxy bulkhead in the back, to seal off the area behind the tire.
I currently run a stubby stainless steel whip-with-corona-ball type of
transponder antenna on the belly of the plane, where it occasionally quits
working due to oily build-up. I suspect that it is a draggy installation, if
such a short thing can have much drag.
Here's where my thoughts are going: I have room to install a horizontal
ground plane of about 5in. x 5 in. with same type of antenna in its center,
pointed down vertiacally, just behind the bulkhead in the wheel pant. I have
already scoped out in my head the coax routing and connectors required to
make such an installation workable and removable for maintenance; it looks
like 3 or possibly 4 bulkhead BNC connectors, and associated runs or RG-58
(or RG-400, is it, that Bob recommends now?)
My biggest concern is possible adverse VSWR and radiation pattern effects
from having this antenna radiating element about 12 inches from the center of
the axle, with that metal wheel in proximity. I think the field of view from
the tip of the antenna at a roughly 3 to 5 degree downward angle will be
unrestricted 360 degrees, but looking strictly horizontally,, there will no
doubt be some shadowing toward the front.
What do you think? Is this idea worth pursuing? I really want to end up
with a transponder antenna that doesn't need so much maintenance.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
Clifton Forge, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC connectors |
BAKEROCB(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/2001 2:54:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jwlawson(at)hargray.com writes:
>
> <<....skip.....It's a Van's RV-6, I'm installing capacative senders for the
> EI fuel quantity gauge per the plans and directions supplied by Van's.>>
>
> That is what I deduced from your original request, but wasn't sure what kind
> of wire (coax or non coax, sheilded or non shielded) that you were going to
> be using.
Yup, I should have mentioned that...it's regular ol' 18 AWG wire, pretty simple.
> I think that is a very clever idea that someone came up with, using
> a BNC bulkhead connector to pass wiring through the side of a fuel tank.
> Normal use for that BNC fitting would be to pass coax wiring through the side
> of an electronic box.
Ah, I didn't know that...interesting! No wonder I couldn't find it in any of the
catalogs (Spruce, Wick's, etc).
> < doesn't appear to be a problem.>>
>
> I guess the real issue here is not whether the tank is pressurized or not,
> but whether or not fuel will leak out more readily through a non pressurized
> bulkhead fitting. Maybe the sealing goop that you plan to smear around the
> inside and outside of the fitting is supposed to solve that problem.
>
You're exactly right, the directions say to apply Proseal at the connector, if
I
remember correctly.
> < have...no manufacturer, no MS or AN number, no nuthin'. I even searched
> Van's parts list and catalog, and couldn't find it, nor could I find it in
> the Spruce catalog. I think what
> confused Bob was my mention of "coax" when I said I didn't know that both
> coax and non-coax BNC connectors.>>
>
> Being a non electronic type myself I know how easy it is to get lost in their
> domain.
My extent of experience with things electrical is turning them on and off...oh,
and when I was a kid, getting a shock from licking the terminals of a 9v battery.
Didn't do that again...
> One way to self educate is through catalogs. Mouser, Newark, and
> Digikey are three biggies in the business. If you want to pursue this I
> recommend starting with a Newark catalog <> or 1-800-4-NEWARK.
I'll look Newark up tonite, thanks :-) I have the Digikey site bookmarked.
> Another gotcha in this area is numbers. There are part numbers, style
> numbers, type numbers, stock numbers, manufacturer's numbers, distributor's
> numbers, catalog numbers, industry standard's numbers, etc., etc., etc. So
> when one wants to use a number it can be very important to identify just
> whose number it is and what kind of number it is supposed to be.
Good point, I hadn't thought about the variety of numbers that could be attached
to that part.
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
Thanks, OC, much appreciated.
For Electric Bob: hope this input from OC clarifies things a bit, he's very
helpful!
I presume that I'll need to solder the wire to the connector. Van's recommends
coating the sealing the exposed soldered end of the wire where it connects to the
connector.
> PS: Maybe Vans can put you in touch with the people who have invented or done
> this non standard use of the BNC fitting and they can give you some advice
> about how to solder / connect the wires to it.
I'll do just that! Maybe Bob has a suggestion or two, also.
> Realize that normally one would crimp the proper type of BNC fitting to the
> end of a coax wire then attach that fitting to the exterior of the bulkhead
> fitting in order to make a connection.
Got that...'now I see', said the blind man :-) thanks for the help.
> PPS: I presume that you have available one of the books "XX Years of the
> RVAtor".
> Full of good tips.Easy Publishing, 505-865-3466.
Sure do!
Semper Fi
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BNC connectors |
John Lawson wrote:
>
>
> My extent of experience with things electrical is turning them on and off...oh,
> and when I was a kid, getting a shock from licking the terminals of a 9v battery.
> Didn't do that again...
>
*** Gee, I've done that for years. Can tell a nice fresh one from a stale
one, from a dead one...
"Ah, 1983 Eveready. A fine vintage...."
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master switches |
Merry Christmas all!
I just ran across this article on avionics master switches...It seems to
disagree with Bob's analysis of the need for them..and being one to stir the
pot..here it is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/avmaster.html
I tend to believe they are unnecessarymyself, liking Bob's logic....higher
parts count.. single point failure, etc..
Dave Leonard.. a man with a '72 Bellanca Viking with no avionics master..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | New pricing on 760VHF Transceiver |
Check out the new pricing on the Microair 760VHF
transceiver at http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
I'm ready to mount a transponder antenna and I was wondering what some basic
guidelines are for the location and orientation. I have a composite
fuselage with a metal tail. I was hoping to mount it inside the fuselage
somewhere but I don't have a plan yet. Any tips are appreciated.
Happy Holidays, Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna location
>
> Hi, Bob, and everyone else on the List, Merry Christmas. I have a
question
> in this vein. Right now I am in the middle of changing over the wheel
pants
> on my RV-6A from the old style to the new 2-piece "pressure recovery"
pants.
> These pants are quite generous in size, and come with a substantial, flat
> fiberglass/epoxy bulkhead in the back, to seal off the area behind the
tire.
> I currently run a stubby stainless steel whip-with-corona-ball type of
> transponder antenna on the belly of the plane, where it occasionally quits
> working due to oily build-up. I suspect that it is a draggy installation,
if
> such a short thing can have much drag.
>
> Here's where my thoughts are going: I have room to install a horizontal
> ground plane of about 5in. x 5 in. with same type of antenna in its
center,
> pointed down vertiacally, just behind the bulkhead in the wheel pant. I
have
> already scoped out in my head the coax routing and connectors required to
> make such an installation workable and removable for maintenance; it looks
> like 3 or possibly 4 bulkhead BNC connectors, and associated runs or RG-58
> (or RG-400, is it, that Bob recommends now?)
>
> My biggest concern is possible adverse VSWR and radiation pattern effects
> from having this antenna radiating element about 12 inches from the center
of
> the axle, with that metal wheel in proximity. I think the field of view
from
> the tip of the antenna at a roughly 3 to 5 degree downward angle will be
> unrestricted 360 degrees, but looking strictly horizontally,, there will
no
> doubt be some shadowing toward the front.
>
> What do you think? Is this idea worth pursuing? I really want to end up
> with a transponder antenna that doesn't need so much maintenance.
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A O-320/Sensenich FP
> Hop-Along Air Field, 12VA
> Clifton Forge, VA
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: New pricing on 760VHF Transceiver |
OK, sold. So what's the latest on the XPNDR? (looking for the package deal!)
Fom the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> Check out the new pricing on the Microair 760VHF
> transceiver at http://www.aeroelectric.com/
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
>
>I'm ready to mount a transponder antenna and I was wondering what some basic
>guidelines are for the location and orientation. I have a composite
>fuselage with a metal tail. I was hoping to mount it inside the fuselage
>somewhere but I don't have a plan yet. Any tips are appreciated.
>
>Happy Holidays, Gary K.
If it were my airplane, I'd try for fuselage centerline with the
shortest practical feedline. Many builders have reported successful
operation with antennas inside a composite tailcone but common
logic tells us there would be degraded performance due to
shadowing and attenuation of the signal with surrounding
materials.
Bottom line is that you can try about anything and go to an
alternative plan if ATC can't see you as well as you think
they should.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
>
>Merry Christmas all!
>
>I just ran across this article on avionics master switches...It seems to
>disagree with Bob's analysis of the need for them..and being one to stir the
>pot..here it is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/avmaster.html
>
>I tend to believe they are unnecessary myself, liking Bob's logic....higher
>parts count.. single point failure, etc..
>
>Dave Leonard.. a man with a '72 Bellanca Viking with no avionics master..
Those articles are all over the place. I get one e-mailed
to me several times a year. When I could find e-mail addresses,
I've written a number of authors asking for specifics as to
the magnitude and source of transients that exceed the
capabilities of the radio to deal with it. Never had an
answer from any one of them. The general flow of these
articles is to first instill a lot of concern for the
uncertainties based on divine revelation. For example,
the article you cited says:
"Your panel of state-of-the-art avionics might represent
one-quarter or one-third of the total value of your (TRUE)
aircraft. To invest this kind of money and not have proper
protection doesn't make economic sense or even common sense."
Hmmmm . . . I guess "protection" is a "common sense" issue,
not a scientific issue. The article goes on to say:
"You might think that you could just turn on and off the
radios individually before and after starting the aircraft
and wouldn't have a need for an avionics master switch,
but that's only half-true. You may be able to turn on and
off the navigation and communications equipment, but how
about the intercom, fuel computer, glideslope receiver,
marker beacon, altitude encoder, HSI, flight directorwell
the list goes on. None of those units normally have an
on-off switch. Their designers assume that the installing
agency knows what they are doing and will provide spike
protection."
Here the author chooses to ignore or is completely ignorant
of the fact that the "installing agency" has no responsibility
whatsoever with respect to protecting any aircraft accessory
from system gremlins real or imagined. The installer is
obligated by regulation and ignorance to follow the instructions
that come with the product. Our guardian angles with clubs
are quick to bless installations in accordance with approved
documentation . . . right or wrong. Any installer with the
brass to do something original either faces an uphill battle
to convince the "angels" that the science is correct and that
the deviation is a good thing . . . when tradition and
ignorance are so pervasive, why bother?
These articles also fail to mention the hundreds of
products with solid state innards that are routinely
attached to the main bus of tens of thousands of airplanes
and amassed millions of failure-free flight hours.
It's easier to ignore the efforts of capable designers
and chalk the apparent success up as "a universe of
accidents looking for someplace to happen."
Dr. Tom's credentials are impressive . . . he owns
"one of the finest radio shops on the West Coast", has
the blessings of the FAA for functioning as a DER and
even earned a PhD in nuclear physics. . . . Hmmmmm . . . won't
belabor the obvious question there.
The article wraps up with:
"If you have modern solid-state avionics (nav/comms, DME, GPS,
fuel flow computer, etc.) then in my opinion an avionics
master switch is a must. The few dollars you try to save by not
installing one will return to haunt you in repair bills, guaranteed."
Hmmm. . . "guaranteed" . . . These articles have been around
for decades and they'll persist as along as there are consumers
ready to buy into the advertising hype. They never contain any
data or specifics as to the threats or weaknesses in the design
of potential victims.
As a sideline datapoint, I've been working with a number of
folks at Raytheon who are considering the next generation
glass cockpit products for inclusion into light aircraft.
These systems are far more complex and potentially fragile
than any piece of avionics produced to date . . . but all
are tested to DO-160 to DEMONSTRATE an ability to withstand
anything the airplane might throw at it . . and nature too.
People have agonized for years about "spikes" from starter
motors . . . you ought to see what we do to provide immunity
from most effects of lightning. Now that's a SPIKE!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
>To invest this kind of money and not have proper
> protection doesn't make economic sense or even common sense."
>
> Hmmmm . . . I guess "protection" is a "common sense" issue,
> not a scientific issue. The article goes on to say:
Personally, I've always been suspect of arguments that invoke "common
sense" or anything else you can't really define well - after all, it is
common sense that tells you earth is flat!
> People have agonized for years about "spikes" from starter
> motors . . . you ought to see what we do to provide immunity
> from most effects of lightning. Now that's a SPIKE!
This one is interesting - I asked what can be done to protect against
lightning strikes once before, and was promptly admonished not to fly into
bad weather for an answer. Assuming my plane is out on the field at a
tie-down, where it may spend the vast majority of its time, is there
anything that can be done about the charge from a near miss? (I'm not even
going to ask about a direct hit.)
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kay <skay(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
Never thought about that Gary. I might add a ground spike to my tie down. -Steve
> This one is interesting - I asked what can be done to protect against
> lightning strikes once before, and was promptly admonished not to fly into
> bad weather for an answer. Assuming my plane is out on the field at a
> tie-down, where it may spend the vast majority of its time, is there
> anything that can be done about the charge from a near miss? (I'm not even
> going to ask about a direct hit.)
>
> Gary Liming
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New pricing on 760VHF Transceiver & Xpndr Availability |
>
>OK, sold. So what's the latest on the XPNDR? (looking for the package deal!)
>
>Fom the PossumWorks in TN
>Mark
>
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>>
>> Check out the new pricing on the Microair 760VHF
>> transceiver at http://www.aeroelectric.com/
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
The FAA is still chasing them around the paperwork
mountain. Just checked with my distributor and they
tell me they're going to ship my back-ordered T2000SFL
transponders on Jan 04!!!!! We shall see what we shall
see. I'll post a note on the AeroElectric List and
on the website when I know it's a Done Deal.
I think I have three transponders coming that are not
spoken for. If the pricing hasn't changed since I placed
the order, they'll sell for $1195. The prewired harness
will be $55 . . . and like the VHF760, we'll eventually
publish our own installation manual and diagrams.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics Master switches |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
I read this article on avionics masters and sent an e-mail to the author
asking if he could back up his conclusion with solid evidence. I'll let
you guys know if I hear anything back. I gave him the web address to
Lectric Bob's article on avionics master switches. I'd be interested to
hear Bob's comments too...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A finish kit due to arrive this week if Roadway doesn't lose it
somewhere.....
_______
From: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master switches
Merry Christmas all!
I just ran across this article on avionics master switches...It seems to
disagree with Bob's analysis of the need for them..and being one to stir
the
pot..here it is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/avmaster.html
I tend to believe they are unnecessarymyself, liking Bob's
logic....higher
parts count.. single point failure, etc..
Dave Leonard.. a man with a '72 Bellanca Viking with no avionics master..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: New pricing on 760VHF Transceiver & |
Xpndr Availability
> I'll post a note on the AeroElectric List and
> on the website when I know it's a Done Deal.
I know Microair has a "panel" version of the 760 - one that looks like am
ICOM A200, kind of. Do you know if it is functionally the same as the 2
1/4 inch round one? Do you carry it too, and if so, have a price? I think
I would like the panel version because I am used to that format and would
fumble with the switches less.
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
>
>
>I read this article on avionics masters and sent an e-mail to the author
>asking if he could back up his conclusion with solid evidence. I'll let
>you guys know if I hear anything back. I gave him the web address to
>Lectric Bob's article on avionics master switches. I'd be interested to
>hear Bob's comments too...
already posted mine . . . I'm sure we're all interested in
what the good doctor has to say.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <nthomas(at)mmcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New pricing on 760VHF Transceiver & Xpndr Availability |
Bob,
I am interested in the T2000SFL. Will the T2000SFL require an encoder? If
so do you recommend any encoders to go with the T2000SFL?
Thanks
Ned
> The FAA is still chasing them around the paperwork
> mountain. Just checked with my distributor and they
> tell me they're going to ship my back-ordered T2000SFL
> transponders on Jan 04!!!!! We shall see what we shall
> see. I'll post a note on the AeroElectric List and
> on the website when I know it's a Done Deal.
>
> I think I have three transponders coming that are not
> spoken for. If the pricing hasn't changed since I placed
> the order, they'll sell for $1195. The prewired harness
> will be $55 . . . and like the VHF760, we'll eventually
> publish our own installation manual and diagrams.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
Upper or lower side of the fuse Bob?
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder antenna location
lls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>I'm ready to mount a transponder antenna and I was wondering what some basic
>guidelines are for the location and orientation. I have a composite
>fuselage with a metal tail. I was hoping to mount it inside the fuselage
>somewhere but I don't have a plan yet. Any tips are appreciated.
>
>Happy Holidays, Gary K.
If it were my airplane, I'd try for fuselage centerline with the
shortest practical feedline. Many builders have reported successful
operation with antennas inside a composite tailcone but common
logic tells us there would be degraded performance due to
shadowing and attenuation of the signal with surrounding
materials.
Bottom line is that you can try about anything and go to an
alternative plan if ATC can't see you as well as you think
they should.
Bob . . .
=
=
=
c-list
=
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master switches EGAD |
Bob:
Bravo! Your latest tilt at the "Delightfully Bewildered" Doctor
of atomic science is a masterpiece of contemplated logic........... It
ranks with the Cessna Master Square and the Car Battery Care topics and has
therefore taken its place in the front of my Construction Log with AC43.13
and assorted other Rules to Live by.
Without your shared experience and willingness to deliver, we
would all be the poorer. Best regards for 2002 - and Don't Give Up the
Shippppp!
Ferg
diesel Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/26/01 |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantC(at)total.net> |
on 12/27/01 02:51, AeroElectric-List Digest Server at
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Those articles are all over the place. I get one e-mailed
...
> "Your panel of state-of-the-art avionics
FWIW - just as a sidebar - the ole' reliable 727 did indeed have avionics
masters installed. Our company routinely kept those in the 'ON' position.
The brand new state-of-the-art A320 with more avionics and computers than
anyone can count, doesn't have any avionics master switches. I don't know
what sort of electrical spikes are caused when the generators kick in during
engine start (at about 53% of N1 rotation speed, the generator suddenly
assumes the full load of the electrical busses), but the mechanical jolt is
violent enough to actually make the engine pods shake, and the impact can be
felt in the flight deck! And I couldn't count the number of times a year
that the electrical system bounces around from engine-generator power, to
Auxiallary-gen power, to ground power, to nothing (the worst case is when
the ground plug falls out of the socket 2 minutes before pushback and
everything suddenly goes black - then someone hurredly plugs it back in and
all the lights and bells and whistles come on doing self-tests while the
pilots frantically fumble through the flight computer pages to ensure that
none of the data has been lost or corrupted!!! joy oh joy!).
All without any 'master switch' protection at all.
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
www.theWingStayedON.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 'Lectric Bob fuseblocks...good service |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantC(at)total.net> |
>> I just ran across this article on avionics master switches...It seems to
>> disagree with Bob's analysis of the need for them..
While on the topic of some of the innovative ideas encouraged by the
Aeroelectric manual, let me provide an update regarding my fuseblocks.
I utilized the automotive style fuseblocks as suggested in Bob's book - One
20 terminal unit for the main bus, a 10 terminal unit for my essential bus,
and a 6 terminal unit for my engine/ignition bus. These are conveniently
located on the outboard side panels, freeing up valuable instrument panel
space.
The only snag I had was that first the 10-slot unit, then the 6-slot unit
revealed a loosening in the grip on the fuse in the top right hand slot,
resulting in an intermittant circuit.
I want to emphasize that this is the only problem that I've had - all the
other slots on all the other units are working just fine.
I have eliminated the possibility that I may have somehow kicked them
getting in and out of the aircraft (they are well protected by their
position). When I change them, I will re-examine the installation technique
to see if there is any way that I did something to cause the problem - I
can't see how.... but (another thing I will investigate is whether my
'generic' fuses have the same terminal gauge as original manufacturers
equipment?)
Anyways, the convenience of this unit was displayed in the short-term
solution, which was to merely switch the faulty circuit to the next
available slot for the time being. And in my 'winter works' project, I will
merely have to unbolt the fuseblock itself and drop in the new unit.
Here's where the good service comes in. As soon as I had advised Bob
Nuckolls of the problem a replacement unit appeared in the mail, along with
a request that I return the defective unit for investigation. That's great
service!
I'll post more later on as required - just wanted to give 'kuddos' where
due.
All the best in '02,
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
www.theWingStayedON.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Lightning and ground spikes |
"Never thought about that Gary. I might add a ground spike to my tie
down. -Steve"
Steve:
Not in a million years...... the whole idea of lightning
protection is to induce the strike in an Alternative path - not the one
you're trying to protect.
The aircraft is best protected by lettijng it 'float' between positive and
negative fields and intriguing the tendrils 'feeling' for the alternative
route to go elsewhere. Then the aircraft will not be nearly so 'attractive'
a route.
So mebbe a post twenty feet away, well grounded and sharp at the
top would induce the feelers to it. Then if a strike occurs (or even a
preemptive one) it will mean only cleaning tiny spots of molten steel off
the 'plane.
Regards, Ferg A064
P.S: There is still (I hope) an superb account of the destruction of a
composite aircraft in Southern UK on the Brit AAIB list. The discussion of
the pica-minute by pica-minute travel of the lightning is an
education...........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kay <skay(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightning and ground spikes |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> "Never thought about that Gary. I might add a ground spike to my tie
> down. -Steve"
>
> Steve:
> Not in a million years...... the whole idea of lightning
> protection is to induce the strike in an Alternative path - not the one
> you're trying to protect.
Got it... I was thinking in terms of the avionics and directing the path "around"
them by using the skin of the airframe. I must admit, I've seen buildings and
there wiring fried by lightning while the nice shinning apd aluminum Grumman
step van along side was not touched! -Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/26/01 |
> All without any 'master switch' protection at all.
>
Yes... but do you know what protection circuits are built into the electrical
system, and into each box in the avionics, that are not controlled by the crew?
The system may well be protected in a variety of ways, both voltage and thermal,
invisible to the crew.
Robert
Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
> on 12/27/01 02:51, AeroElectric-List Digest Server at
> aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> > Those articles are all over the place. I get one e-mailed
> ...
> > "Your panel of state-of-the-art avionics
>
> FWIW - just as a sidebar - the ole' reliable 727 did indeed have avionics
> masters installed. Our company routinely kept those in the 'ON' position.
>
> The brand new state-of-the-art A320 with more avionics and computers than
> anyone can count, doesn't have any avionics master switches. I don't know
> what sort of electrical spikes are caused when the generators kick in during
> engine start (at about 53% of N1 rotation speed, the generator suddenly
> assumes the full load of the electrical busses), but the mechanical jolt is
> violent enough to actually make the engine pods shake, and the impact can be
> felt in the flight deck! And I couldn't count the number of times a year
> that the electrical system bounces around from engine-generator power, to
> Auxiallary-gen power, to ground power, to nothing (the worst case is when
> the ground plug falls out of the socket 2 minutes before pushback and
> everything suddenly goes black - then someone hurredly plugs it back in and
> all the lights and bells and whistles come on doing self-tests while the
> pilots frantically fumble through the flight computer pages to ensure that
> none of the data has been lost or corrupted!!! joy oh joy!).
>
> All without any 'master switch' protection at all.
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> Montreal
> Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
> C-GHTF
> www.theWingStayedON.ca
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 'Lectric Bob fuseblocks...good service |
Bussman has evidently had some issues with the fuse not being held
tightly enough for some applications because they now,(a couple of years
ago), offer a version of the fuse block with greater grip on the fuse.
They do this by putting little spring steel clips over the fingers that
grip the fuses. The resulting fuse block was somewhat more pricey, and
this info is a couple years old, so I'm not sure if they still offer it.
I don't have any service experience with the enhanced fuseblocks because
the solution to the issue I'm remembering was to replace the fuseblock
with some circuit breakers. Bob, have you seen one of the fuseblocks
with these little clips?
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
>
>
> While on the topic of some of the innovative ideas encouraged
> by the Aeroelectric manual, let me provide an update
> regarding my fuseblocks.
>
> I utilized the automotive style fuseblocks as suggested in
> Bob's book - One 20 terminal unit for the main bus, a 10
> terminal unit for my essential bus, and a 6 terminal unit for
> my engine/ignition bus. These are conveniently located on the
> outboard side panels, freeing up valuable instrument panel space.
>
> The only snag I had was that first the 10-slot unit, then the
> 6-slot unit revealed a loosening in the grip on the fuse in
> the top right hand slot, resulting in an intermittent circuit.
>
> I want to emphasize that this is the only problem that I've
> had - all the other slots on all the other units are working
> just fine.
>
> I have eliminated the possibility that I may have somehow
> kicked them getting in and out of the aircraft (they are well
> protected by their position). When I change them, I will
> re-examine the installation technique to see if there is any
> way that I did something to cause the problem - I can't see
> how.... but (another thing I will investigate is whether my
> 'generic' fuses have the same terminal gauge as original manufacturers
> equipment?)
>
> Anyways, the convenience of this unit was displayed in the
> short-term solution, which was to merely switch the faulty
> circuit to the next available slot for the time being. And
> in my 'winter works' project, I will merely have to unbolt
> the fuseblock itself and drop in the new unit.
>
> Here's where the good service comes in. As soon as I had
> advised Bob Nuckolls of the problem a replacement unit
> appeared in the mail, along with a request that I return the
> defective unit for investigation. That's great service!
>
> I'll post more later on as required - just wanted to give
> 'kuddos' where due.
>
> All the best in '02,
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> Montreal
> Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
> C-GHTF
> www.theWingStayedON.ca
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightning and ground spikes |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> "Never thought about that Gary. I might add a ground spike to my tie
> down. -Steve"
>
> Steve:
> Not in a million years...... the whole idea of lightning
> protection is to induce the strike in an Alternative path - not the one
*** If I was running an airport in a lightning-prone area, I might provide a
"lightning tower" - just a tall steel pole. So lightning would tend to
hit the tower in preference to the airplanes.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
Bob,
I was on the Microair web site the other night and see that they are
waiting for TSO cert.(still) before they release their transponder for sale.
Any idea when you'll be getting any? With their time table staement
last year of "a couple of months", it should only take me 10 minutes or
so to finish my 7.
Just wondering...won't be working on the panel for another few minutes...
Jim Duckett, RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kay <skay(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightning and ground spikes |
Thats because you're an aircraft owner...not an airport owner... -Steve
jerry(at)tr2.com wrote:
>
> Fergus Kyle wrote:
> >
> > "Never thought about that Gary. I might add a ground spike to my tie
> > down. -Steve"
> >
> > Steve:
> > Not in a million years...... the whole idea of lightning
> > protection is to induce the strike in an Alternative path - not the one
>
> *** If I was running an airport in a lightning-prone area, I might provide a
> "lightning tower" - just a tall steel pole. So lightning would tend to
> hit the tower in preference to the airplanes.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | spike catching diodes |
12/27/01
Hello Bob, I'd like to try again on this subject. Please see my previous post
below. Many thanks. 'OC'
Subj: spike catching diodes
Date: 12/18/2001
In a message dated 12/18/2001 2:52:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list- writes:
<<....skip.... Go to http://www.aeroelectric.com and click on link
to Article Reprints and Newsgroup Treads. On the
next page, find and click on "An illustrated discussion
about spike catching diodes and how they work.".....skip..... >>
12/18/01
Hello Bob, Thanks for your testing and detailed write up on this subject. But
I'm still left with some very simple layman's questions / doubts.
The diagram on page 212 of Tony Bingelis' book Firewall Forward provides a
basis for discussion / questions.
1) Does the diode always get installed so that it provides a connection
between the solenoid switch terminal and some other part of the circuit?
2) Does it matter which other part of the circuit that the diode connection
goes to? I see on Tony's diagram that the diode connection is made to the
plus or input side of the relay. I see that on your sketch you show the diode
connection going to ground. Which is correct / better?
3) When diagramming this diode connection which is the proper direction for
the diode triangle to be pointing? I see on Tony's diagram that the diode
triangle has the base connected to the solenoid switch terminal. I see on
your sketch that you have the point of the diode triangle connected to the
solenoid switch terminal (and the base of the triangle connected to ground).
4) When the switch has been closed for some time is there supposed to be any
current flow through the diode?
5) Which way is the current from the collapsing coil field supposed to flow
through the diode when the switch is opened? In the direction that the diode
triangle is pointing or opposite to the direction the diode triangle is
pointing?
6) When one has a diode in hand how can one tell by looking at its markings
which end the triangle is pointing towards?
Many thanks for your help.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)juno.com> |
An exerpt from my BENDIX/KING KX 125 Instalation manual:
CAUTION
THE KX 125 SHOULD ONLY BE TURNED ON AFTER ENGINE STARTUP. THIS IS A
SIMPLE PRECAUTION WHICH HELPS PROTECT THE SOLID STATE CIRCITRY AND
EXTENDS THE OPERATING LIFE OF YOUR AVIONICS EQUIPMENT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
writes:
>
>
>
> >
> >Merry Christmas all!
> >
> >I just ran across this article on avionics master switches...It
> seems to
> >disagree with Bob's analysis of the need for them..and being one to
> stir the
> >pot..here it is: http://www.avweb.com/articles/avmaster.html
> >
> >I tend to believe they are unnecessary myself, liking Bob's
> logic....higher
> >parts count.. single point failure, etc..
> >
> >Dave Leonard.. a man with a '72 Bellanca Viking with no avionics
> master..
>
> Those articles are all over the place. I get one e-mailed
> to me several times a year. When I could find e-mail addresses,
> I've written a number of authors asking for specifics as to
> the magnitude and source of transients that exceed the
> capabilities of the radio to deal with it. Never had an
> answer from any one of them. The general flow of these
> articles is to first instill a lot of concern for the
> uncertainties based on divine revelation. For example,
> the article you cited says:
>
> "Your panel of state-of-the-art avionics might represent
> one-quarter or one-third of the total value of your (TRUE)
> aircraft. To invest this kind of money and not have proper
> protection doesn't make economic sense or even common sense."
>
> Hmmmm . . . I guess "protection" is a "common sense" issue,
> not a scientific issue. The article goes on to say:
>
> "You might think that you could just turn on and off the
> radios individually before and after starting the aircraft
> and wouldn't have a need for an avionics master switch,
> but that's only half-true. You may be able to turn on and
> off the navigation and communications equipment, but how
> about the intercom, fuel computer, glideslope receiver,
> marker beacon, altitude encoder, HSI, flight directorwell
> the list goes on. None of those units normally have an
> on-off switch. Their designers assume that the installing
> agency knows what they are doing and will provide spike
> protection."
>
> Here the author chooses to ignore or is completely ignorant
> of the fact that the "installing agency" has no responsibility
> whatsoever with respect to protecting any aircraft accessory
> from system gremlins real or imagined. The installer is
> obligated by regulation and ignorance to follow the instructions
> that come with the product. Our guardian angles with clubs
> are quick to bless installations in accordance with approved
> documentation . . . right or wrong. Any installer with the
> brass to do something original either faces an uphill battle
> to convince the "angels" that the science is correct and that
> the deviation is a good thing . . . when tradition and
> ignorance are so pervasive, why bother?
>
> These articles also fail to mention the hundreds of
> products with solid state innards that are routinely
> attached to the main bus of tens of thousands of airplanes
> and amassed millions of failure-free flight hours.
> It's easier to ignore the efforts of capable designers
> and chalk the apparent success up as "a universe of
> accidents looking for someplace to happen."
>
> Dr. Tom's credentials are impressive . . . he owns
> "one of the finest radio shops on the West Coast", has
> the blessings of the FAA for functioning as a DER and
> even earned a PhD in nuclear physics. . . . Hmmmmm . . . won't
> belabor the obvious question there.
>
> The article wraps up with:
>
> "If you have modern solid-state avionics (nav/comms, DME, GPS,
> fuel flow computer, etc.) then in my opinion an avionics
> master switch is a must. The few dollars you try to save by not
> installing one will return to haunt you in repair bills,
> guaranteed."
>
> Hmmm. . . "guaranteed" . . . These articles have been around
> for decades and they'll persist as along as there are consumers
> ready to buy into the advertising hype. They never contain any
> data or specifics as to the threats or weaknesses in the design
> of potential victims.
>
> As a sideline datapoint, I've been working with a number of
> folks at Raytheon who are considering the next generation
> glass cockpit products for inclusion into light aircraft.
> These systems are far more complex and potentially fragile
> than any piece of avionics produced to date . . . but all
> are tested to DO-160 to DEMONSTRATE an ability to withstand
> anything the airplane might throw at it . . and nature too.
> People have agonized for years about "spikes" from starter
> motors . . . you ought to see what we do to provide immunity
> from most effects of lightning. Now that's a SPIKE!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)tenforward.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
I might point out that IF you follow ALL the electrical design suggestions
that Bob recommends AND have equipment that was DESIGNED to current 160
requirements you need not worry about electrical damage.
However I have some electronics from major mfgrs that was manufactured in
1999 (designed years before that)that does not meet 160. Further some appear
to not have suitable protection for devices across the input bus that are
rated for 18V max.
Those with spam cans that have older electronics and factory stock
electrical charging systems should use consider the use of an avionics
master and/or turn off everything during starting and shutdown.
The origins of the ""requirement"" for avionics master switches is not
clear. However FBO's found that they had fewer equipment problems in the
50"s and 60" with rental acft if there was a avionics master and if it was
used.
Personally I like a single switch for power control and have a second one in
the very unlikely event of failure. This is a personal preference not due to
worrys. I have included proper spike transient supression at the source in
my acft similar to what Bob suggests and use the Avionics master for
personal choice only.
My conclusion is that a properly designed electrical system does not need
the additional cautions of avionics off during start up and shutdown.
However I have yet to see a spam can built before 1990 that had a good
electrical design.
Paul Messinger
EAA tech Con.
Electronics engineer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of b
green
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master switches
An exerpt from my BENDIX/KING KX 125 Instalation manual:
CAUTION
THE KX 125 SHOULD ONLY BE TURNED ON AFTER ENGINE STARTUP. THIS IS A
SIMPLE PRECAUTION WHICH HELPS PROTECT THE SOLID STATE CIRCITRY AND
EXTENDS THE OPERATING LIFE OF YOUR AVIONICS EQUIPMENT.
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob:
I am trying to wire my RC Allen electric AI & DG. The plug that fits the
back of the instrument has me a little confused. Nothing came with the
instruments so I ordered the plugs from Gulf Coast. Nothing then came with
the plugs and I don't know how to wire or operate these plugs.
They are parts number MS90376-12R. It also says Caplugs EC-12. Can you help
me?
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Hanger # 23 at INT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument panel planning - please comment |
Hello listers,
This evening, I worked on the design of my instrucment
panel and I completed two different models. I would
like to have your assistance to debug the panel for
any important missing things or any usability issue.
Please notice that while I reserved space for a DG and
an AH, these flight instruments will not be installed
initially. I also reserved a space for additional
2-1/4" gauges.
Most circuits will be protected with fuse blocs from
Aeroelectrics.
I want to have a dual-battery electrical system and
dual ignition for a carburated EA-81 installation.
The Comm is an Apollo SL-40 with integrated VOX
intercom. The transponder will be a 2-1/4" device
(when one is available) :-)
The ventilation is assured with Van's Aircraft vents
system.
For cabin heat, I picked up a method on this list that
I think is very simple. I will have a cabin header
radiator backed with computer fans (activated with
on-off switch and a dimmer).
I will operate three facet fuel pumps... one at each
leading edge fuel tank and an additional one for
emergency use.
The EIS is the Advanced EIS for water cooled engine
(from Grand-Rapid). It monitors EGT, water temp,
water pressure, fuel pressure, oil temp, oil pressure,
OAT, engine hours, CHT, dc voltage. Current loading
will be monitored separately with an ammeter.
If you foresee any bugs with this setup, please let me
know before I cut the panel.
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dec27-1.JPG
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dec27-2.JPG
Thank!
Michel
PS: please let me know if this is off-topic for this
list.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics Cooling Hose |
Hello,
Can anybody tell me - what is the exact correct type and size of hose
for cooling radios? You know, the kind that goes into the cooling port on
the back of the radio?
Thanks in advance,
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Harlow" <jharlow(at)onearrow.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
A few quick thoughts.
Can't answer if this is off topic for this group or not, but I do have some
comments on your design.
As a two place A/C the throttle should in the center so both pilots can
reach it ( I see you have two shown). The layout of the flight instruments
in 2.JPG is the better choice but I would move it further left so the AH and
DG or more in the center of vision.
I installed the Control Vision exp buss
http://www.controlvision.com/frame.cfm?link=avionics.htm which made the
wiring job easier and took up less panel space.
Also don't forget a vacuum gage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel arrangement |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantC(at)total.net> |
on 12/28/01 02:51, AeroElectric-List Digest Server at
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote:
> From: Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument panel planning - please comment
>
>
> Hello listers,
>
> This evening, I worked on the design of my instrucment
> panel and I completed two different models. I would
Michel,
The second version with the regular 6 instruments front and center is a more
conventional setup and will allow for easier transitioning with other
aircraft/other pilots. This setup was agreed to by all the major
manufacturers many years ago as 'the best' overall way to scan the
instruments in instrument flying.
If you are delaying the gyros, then I would temporarily relocate the ALT/VSI
to the center column, and blank out the other two for now.
In your other diagram (.1 I think), where you have the AH & DG top and
center I would recommend the following. Initially set it up just as you have
drawn, leaving your gyro holes blanked off. But later when you add the
gyros, relocate them to the two center holes where they will be most
visible. Swap the AH and ALT positions and the DG and VSI positions, and
then you will almost have the 'recommended' setup - just the VSI (the least
important of all) will be out of place. (But still next to the Altimeter, so
not too bad actually).
So, either one can work quite well I think.
Happy cutting,
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
www.theWingStayedON.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Mullins <n323xl(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
Michel,
After looking over your two layouts, This is what I can find:
1: Layout #1 does not have a standard flight instrument scan.
If you've flown other aircraft or will, it will be to your benefit
to keep this as a standard layout.
2: The layout of the switches and other controls seems to be
a little hap-hazard by placing them where there was space
available.
3: The layout of panel #2 is starting to look better but it is missing
a MAG compass.
4: The switch positions are getting better, plus no more than 5
in a row. There are still some just put where there is space.
5: If this is a single or tandem panel, why do you have two throttles?
6: I believe that the EIS system has all your alarms for Oil Pressure,
Oil Temp, ALT, Voltage, etc. That is why I only found one
enunciator light or buzzer (Idiot light for you shadetree mechanics)
7: The VSI does not need the extra cutout in the panel. Mine adjusted
through the lower left screw hole. The Altimeter does need it.
The Artificial Horizon may need one for the caging feature.
I took your two photos and put together a layout as a guide for
you. That file is attached. You will get it, but I don't think the list will.
Are you drawing this in CAD, Panel Planner or something else?
You can check out the panel for my KR2S at:
Http://n323xl.iwarp.com/panel1.htm
I laid my panel out in Turbocad V7 and had the resultant
file sent to a waterjet cutter. I saved a lot of time and
frustration by doing it this way. It also did not cost that
much to have done. Triple check all your dimensions
before sending the file out. You only want to do this once.
Dave Mullins
Nashua, New Hampshire
http://n323xl.iwarp.com
Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> Hello listers,
>
> This evening, I worked on the design of my instrucment
> panel and I completed two different models. I would
> like to have your assistance to debug the panel for
> any important missing things or any usability issue.
>
> Please notice that while I reserved space for a DG and
> an AH, these flight instruments will not be installed
> initially. I also reserved a space for additional
> 2-1/4" gauges.
>
> Most circuits will be protected with fuse blocs from
> Aeroelectrics.
>
> I want to have a dual-battery electrical system and
> dual ignition for a carburated EA-81 installation.
>
> The Comm is an Apollo SL-40 with integrated VOX
> intercom. The transponder will be a 2-1/4" device
> (when one is available) :-)
>
> The ventilation is assured with Van's Aircraft vents
> system.
>
> For cabin heat, I picked up a method on this list that
> I think is very simple. I will have a cabin header
> radiator backed with computer fans (activated with
> on-off switch and a dimmer).
>
> I will operate three facet fuel pumps... one at each
> leading edge fuel tank and an additional one for
> emergency use.
>
> The EIS is the Advanced EIS for water cooled engine
> (from Grand-Rapid). It monitors EGT, water temp,
> water pressure, fuel pressure, oil temp, oil pressure,
> OAT, engine hours, CHT, dc voltage. Current loading
> will be monitored separately with an ammeter.
>
> If you foresee any bugs with this setup, please let me
> know before I cut the panel.
>
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dec27-1.JPG
>
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dec27-2.JPG
>
> Thank!
>
> Michel
> PS: please let me know if this is off-topic for this
> list.
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
>
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Mullins <n323xl(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
Sorry, the link to my instrument panel pages is:
http://n323xl.iwarp.com/blpanel1.htm
Dave Mullins
Nashua, New Hampshire
http://n323xl.iwarp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
See below:
--- John Harlow wrote:
> As a two place A/C the throttle should in the center
> so both pilots can
> reach it ( I see you have two shown).
In a CH601, there is only one control stick in the
center... that's why there are two throttle controls,
one on each side.
> The layout of
> the flight instruments
> in 2.JPG is the better choice but I would move it
> further left so the AH and
> DG or more in the center of vision.
I'll explore that a little more... What limits me is
the height of the panel. When it starts to curve
down, I rapidly loose space and it forces me to revert
to the first design.
> I installed the Control Vision exp buss
>
http://www.controlvision.com/frame.cfm?link=avionics.htm
> which made the
> wiring job easier and took up less panel space.
> Also don't forget a vacuum gage.
I'll look into this.
Thanks!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
Good feedback David!
--- David Mullins wrote:
> 1: Layout #1 does not have a standard flight
> instrument scan.
I got that comment from someonelse as well who is an
airline pilot...
> 2: The layout of the switches and other controls
> seems to be
> a little hap-hazard by placing them where there
> was space
> available.
This is almost right. I tried to group them so I have
the sensitive switches together (fuel pumps for
instance) and the lights switches together. These
details are hard to see and you'd probably need my CAD
file to see them more clearly.
> 3: The layout of panel #2 is starting to look better
> but it is missing
> a MAG compass.
With this setup, the compass would be on top of the
panel... not inside the panel.
> 5: If this is a single or tandem panel, why do you
> have two throttles?
Because the control stick is between the seats (this
is a Zenair CH601).
> 6: I believe that the EIS system has all your alarms
> for Oil Pressure,
> Oil Temp, ALT, Voltage, etc. That is why I only
> found one
> enunciator light or buzzer (Idiot light for you
> shadetree mechanics)
I'm also thinking about using illuminated switches
which would show when they are turned on. These are
cheap switches found in local electronics surplus
stores. They are rated for 20 amps at 12v.
Any good or bad comments about these switches would be
appreciated.
> 7: The VSI does not need the extra cutout in the
> panel. Mine adjusted
> through the lower left screw hole.
I'm planning for the same thing... actually, I started
from another CAD file which had this cutout... I added
the position for the hole and I will only drill that
hole, not the cutout.
> The Artificial Horizon may need one for the
> caging feature.
Thanks!
> I took your two photos and put together a layout as
> a guide for
> you. That file is attached. You will get it, but I
> don't think the list will.
> Are you drawing this in CAD, Panel Planner or
> something else?
I'm using Autocad Lite. I can make the dwf file
available.
> You can check out the panel for my KR2S at:
>
> Http://n323xl.iwarp.com/panel1.htm
I'll look at your page later today...
> file sent to a waterjet cutter. I saved a lot of
Good tip.... how can I find such a place?
Thank you very much for taking time to provide that
information!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
> http://www.controlvision.com/frame.cfm?link=avionics.htm
>> which made the
>> wiring job easier and took up less panel space.>
> I'll look into this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michel
Michel,
I researched the Controlvision offerings carefully (using the
Aeroconnection and RV-List archives) before deciding to instead use Bob's
fuseblock arrangement.
My research concluded (all IMHO only):
1) This device adds lots of extra parts to perform the simple task of wire
overcurrent protection (which in turn may/probably reduces reliability).
The fuseblock arrangement is a simple wire/switch/fuse arrangement.
2) The unit cannot handle high current devices, which then requires the
installation of traditional buss bars or fuseblocks anyway. Why have two
completely different current protection methods when one will do the whole
job for far cheaper?
3) If the Controlvision fails in the field, you are stuck. Switches/fuses
can be had at any auto parts store so you can get back airborne again
quickly.
4) The unit has an avionics master function, which is a designed in single
point failure. Its not good for your entire avionics stack to go down all
at once .
5) As for saving panel space, this unit actually uses *more* space than
toggle switches (which are smaller both in height and depth).
Rob Acker (RV-6).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 12/27/01 |
Hey all, this just in from the author of the Avionics master switch article
at Avionics West.
I asked him what his reaction to our groups' discussion on master
switches.., and directed himto Bob's article on masters..
This was his response to me, which was timely, but still reflects an
opinion, rather than citing a standard or a research paper.
David,
In my opinion an avionics master switch is a must. In fact, some of the
installation manuals require an avionics master switch to be installed.
Without it, the installation would be illegal. Do you know of any aircraft
purchased today that does not have an avionics master switch?
Cheers,
tom
Seems like more of the "common sense" with no science approach to me.
Dave Leonard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iflych2" <iflych2(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
"I'm also thinking about using illuminated switches
which would show when they are turned on. These are
cheap switches found in local electronics surplus
stores. They are rated for 20 amps at 12v."
You might want to try these under low light conditions before making your
decision. They can be very distracting.
N571RS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master switches |
>
>An exerpt from my BENDIX/KING KX 125 Instalation manual:
>
> CAUTION
>
>THE KX 125 SHOULD ONLY BE TURNED ON AFTER ENGINE STARTUP. THIS IS A
>SIMPLE PRECAUTION WHICH HELPS PROTECT THE SOLID STATE CIRCITRY AND
>EXTENDS THE OPERATING LIFE OF YOUR AVIONICS EQUIPMENT.
Yup . . . saw that too . . . saw similar paragraphs in manuals
from Narco, Terra and Genave. Called all of those folks and asked
to talk to the person who would know about the technical validity
of that note.
In no case could anyone identify the potential source, triggering
event or magnitude of a potential hazard to the product. ALL products
offered DO-160 certification as a feature of their product's
capabilities.
The last question was "why is the note there?" . . . "Uh . . . dunno,
let me get back to you on that."
I've asked this question about 10 times in the past 10 years. About
half really did bother to call back to admit, "well, gee . . . we've
been saying that for years and nobody has ever considered whether
or not it was valid."
. . . whereupon I asked, "Then if a radio comes back on warranty
and parts failed were even remotely vulnerable to stresses from
the ship's power, would you void the warranty?"
"Hmmmm . . . I guess not."
"Okay, then what you're telling me is that if a radio comes
in with failed components and you don't know if the radio was
ON or OFF during engine cranking, then you won't automatically
assume that it was ON and tell the owner he screwed up and killed
his radio?"
"We'd have no basis for making such a claim."
Obviously, this is not a transcript of the conversation but
I think my paraphrasing is accurate. Nobody I've talked to
was able to offer a scientific explanation to substantiate
the statement that still appears in many manuals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel arrangement |
Thank you Grant for your feedback! See below:
--- Grant Corriveau wrote:
> The second version with the regular 6 instruments
> front and center is a more
OK...with all the feedback I got, I'll work on this
one from now on.
> If you are delaying the gyros, then I would
> temporarily relocate the ALT/VSI
> to the center column, and blank out the other two
> for now.
That's my intention and I would put a hand held GPS on
the left side.
Would you know if there are things to avoid? What
needs to be far from a compass? Or from a radio?
Thanks and I wish you a happy year 2002!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <nthomas(at)mmcable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 12/27/01 |
My 1976 Grumman Tiger was not equipped with a master switch from the
factory. I have had no problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 12/27/01
>
> Hey all, this just in from the author of the Avionics master switch
article
> at Avionics West.
>
> I asked him what his reaction to our groups' discussion on master
> switches.., and directed himto Bob's article on masters..
>
> This was his response to me, which was timely, but still reflects an
> opinion, rather than citing a standard or a research paper.
>
>
> David,
>
> In my opinion an avionics master switch is a must. In fact, some of the
> installation manuals require an avionics master switch to be installed.
> Without it, the installation would be illegal. Do you know of any
aircraft
> purchased today that does not have an avionics master switch?
>
> Cheers,
> tom
>
> Seems like more of the "common sense" with no science approach to me.
>
> Dave Leonard
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
With the advent of the cheap $100-150 GPS from Walmart, etc. and an $80
external antenna, what is wrong with the idea of finding one that can be
mounted in the panel, and dedicated with the compass rose and heading
screen on full time, and replacing it with the DG? This would be in
addition to any other GPS navaid.
Can GPS antennas be easily attached to two units, as in a simple "y"
harness, or are two antennas a must?
Also, If some of the coming $1000 electronic Artificial Horizon units turn
out well, you don't need a vacuum pump anymore, making this price
competitive with the vacuum instruments. (I am assuming an essential bus
arrangement or even a separate battery back up for it.)
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel planning - please comment |
Good comment! I just checked and yes, in daylight
situation it is nice, but at night, I would not need
any other cabin light and that would be bothersome.
I then checked how much current a bulb uses. It takes
0.039 amp at 12.38 volts for a wattage of 0.48 watts.
So, for the 10 bulbs, we're talking about 5 watts. If
I want to dim them off, I cannot use an ordinary
dimmer as what I want to control is not the +12v, but
rather the return to the ground.
I saw resistors that are rated 10 watts that seems to
be casted in a heatsink (RCD resistors TYPE 175 as an
example). How much heat would such resistors generate
at 5 watts? Would this be an appropriate solution to
dim the light for night flying?
Under this scenario, the instrument lighting switch
would be a dpdt switch and would on one pole control
power to the dimmer for instrument lights and the
other pole would control the return path to the ground
from the lighted switches (either direct or through
resistor).
Please advise on that.
--- iflych2 wrote:
>
>
> "I'm also thinking about using illuminated switches
> which would show when they are turned on. These are
> cheap switches found in local electronics surplus
> stores. They are rated for 20 amps at 12v."
>
> You might want to try these under low light
> conditions before making your
> decision. They can be very distracting.
> N571RS
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DG replacement |
The only thing wrong with using a GPS or another
electronic toy instead of a DG is regulatory
requirements... Even though a GPS will not drift and
need reajustment every 10 minutes, it is not
considered as being acceptable by our regulatory
agency (Transport Canada).
For night flying, I need to have on board either a
Directional Gyroscope or a Stabilized Magnetic
Compass. When asking what a Stabilized Magnetic
Compass is, I could not get any answer. One of my
friend, tried harder than me and succeeded to speak
with one of the team members that wrote the
regulation... it is some sort of a remote gyro.
Michel
--- Gary Liming wrote:
>
>
>
> With the advent of the cheap $100-150 GPS from
> Walmart, etc. and an $80
> external antenna, what is wrong with the idea of
> finding one that can be
> mounted in the panel, and dedicated with the compass
> rose and heading
> screen on full time, and replacing it with the DG?
> This would be in
> addition to any other GPS navaid.
>
> Can GPS antennas be easily attached to two units, as
> in a simple "y"
> harness, or are two antennas a must?
>
> Also, If some of the coming $1000 electronic
> Artificial Horizon units turn
> out well, you don't need a vacuum pump anymore,
> making this price
> competitive with the vacuum instruments. (I am
> assuming an essential bus
> arrangement or even a separate battery back up for
> it.)
>
> Gary Liming
>
>
>
> Forum -
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
,
| Subject: | Coax through plastic bushings |
Folks,
As I'm pondering through the construction of my Vertical Stabilizer, I'm
trying to determine the correct bushings to use in the upper and lower
forward ribs to route my antenna coax through.
I already have the Comant CI-182 antenna which fits inside the VS cap
and am planning to run RG400 which Bob (Nuckolls) says is about .27"
diameter.
Here's where I'm stuck...the SB437-4 bushings that Van's (and others)
sell has a measured OD of .4375" (7/16") and a measured ID of .274.
This means that it should (weasel word) fit. This doesn't really
comfort me in preassembling this thing counting on .004 to snake coax
through. There is a little lip on the inside of the bushing that could
be reamed out for a little better slop.
Does anyone out there have any RG400 and one of these bushings that
would be willing to test fit it and report...or would be willing to give
away a foot or so so I can measure it myself???
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB N822AR(rsvd)
Closed my pre-QB HS - now working on the VS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Use two antennas - simple, more reliable.
Although we all tend to fly by GPS heading, for IFR work the FARs
specifically state you must have a gyro based DG and AI. I will meet this
requirement using the ICARUS solid state gyro AI/DG and iPAQ PDA display,
with an RC Allen electric AI as backup. The GPS input to the ICARUS unit
will be the GX-60. The second iPAQ on the panel will have the AnyWhere map,
fed by a separate GPS receiver. The GX-60 and the AnyWhere map/GPS are feed
from separate electric busses.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (mounting empennage for the last time!!)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Liming
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DG replacement
With the advent of the cheap $100-150 GPS from Walmart, etc. and an $80
external antenna, what is wrong with the idea of finding one that can be
mounted in the panel, and dedicated with the compass rose and heading
screen on full time, and replacing it with the DG? This would be in
addition to any other GPS navaid.
Can GPS antennas be easily attached to two units, as in a simple "y"
harness, or are two antennas a must?
Also, If some of the coming $1000 electronic Artificial Horizon units turn
out well, you don't need a vacuum pump anymore, making this price
competitive with the vacuum instruments. (I am assuming an essential bus
arrangement or even a separate battery back up for it.)
Gary Liming
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DG replacement |
I purchased a $90 model a year of so ago. The problem is that it doesn't
update fast enough for the RV planes. OK in the Cessna 172, but not is a
light twin.
Marty in Brentwood TN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Liming" <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DG replacement
>
>
> With the advent of the cheap $100-150 GPS from Walmart, etc. and an $80
> external antenna, what is wrong with the idea of finding one that can be
> mounted in the panel, and dedicated with the compass rose and heading
> screen on full time, and replacing it with the DG? This would be in
> addition to any other GPS navaid.
>
> Can GPS antennas be easily attached to two units, as in a simple "y"
> harness, or are two antennas a must?
>
> Also, If some of the coming $1000 electronic Artificial Horizon units turn
> out well, you don't need a vacuum pump anymore, making this price
> competitive with the vacuum instruments. (I am assuming an essential bus
> arrangement or even a separate battery back up for it.)
>
> Gary Liming
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DG replacement |
jdnewsum wrote:
>
>
> The only thing wrong with using a GPS or another
> electronic toy instead of a DG is regulatory
> requirements...
*** Not so! If you use a GPS readout for your DG,
you are completely dependant on the GPS system for your
navigation. Imagine if it all goes *pop* in the soup...
I remember reading somewhere that the ambient GPS signal
is something like -160dbm. Not only that, there's a *button*
somewhere that can turn it all off! Sometimes, they
disable GPS by NOTAM in certain areas. Can you imagine a
NOTAM reading "everybody's DG will die on such & such a
date within 300 miles of such and such a VORTAC"?
Also, a GPS display can only show you ground track
direction. When ATC gives you the ole "fly heading 150",
he expects you to go the same direction as the last 10
airplanes he gave that vector to.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Cooling Hose |
>
>Hello,
>
> Can anybody tell me - what is the exact correct type and size of hose
>for cooling radios? You know, the kind that goes into the cooling port on
>the back of the radio?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
Jerry, I know I've seen at least two sizes over the years
but I'll bet the modern multi-output fans use 5/8" scat
tube.
How many radios do you have that need cooling?
December 01, 2001 - December 28, 2001
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-am