AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-be
September 18, 2002 - October 04, 2002
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
boeing.com>
>Bob,
>
>I have modified a Nippon Internally Regulated alternator to use the B&C
>regulator. I need to insulate an area where I had to remove a tab/terminal
>and expose metal. The area is very small, no more than 1/16" x 1/4" (tab
>size). Can you suggest a compound, and something hard like a wafer of
>bakelite to insulate the exposed area with?
I'm having trouble visualizing the task. Are you asking about some
kind of sheet material? How about fiberglas sheet from which etched
circuit boards are made? This can be had as thin as 0.010" and as
thick as 1/8".
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Insulation boeing.com> |
Are you talking about where you had to cut off the tab on the diode
stack that one of the tabs on the brush assy mounted to? What I've seen
used there is a thin piece of phenolic glued across the exposed area. I
believe it has to be bent in the middle because the cut is not a
straight cut.
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
> >
> >I have modified a Nippon Internally Regulated alternator to use the
B&C
> >regulator. I need to insulate an area where I had to remove a
> tab/terminal
> >and expose metal. The area is very small, no more than 1/16" x 1/4"
(tab
> >size). Can you suggest a compound, and something hard like a wafer of
> >bakelite to insulate the exposed area with?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Subject: | Intresting electrical question |
I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I
was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches?
(charge in parallel and use in series)
Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v
They do not need to be used while charging?
Can it be done without switches?
If not what is the simplest way with least switches?
Thanks
Ian Scott
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Bob and all,
I am building an RV-8 with a Ray Allen G-7 stick grip. I'm planning on
using Bosch automotive relays for flap control and autopilot servo
disconnect. Any reason not to use these relays? What is the difference
between the 330-070 and the 330-073? Thanks for any help.
Ted H.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob and all,
> I am building an RV-8 with a Ray Allen G-7 stick grip. I'm planning on
>using Bosch automotive relays for flap control and autopilot servo
>disconnect. Any reason not to use these relays? What is the difference
>between the 330-070 and the 330-073? Thanks for any help.
>Ted H.
The only data I could find quickly on the -070 and -073 doesn't
show any difference in them. Either appears suited to the task.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Intresting electrical question |
>
>I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I
>was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches?
>(charge in parallel and use in series)
>
>Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v
>
>They do not need to be used while charging?
>
>Can it be done without switches?
>
>If not what is the simplest way with least switches?
>
>Thanks
>
>Ian Scott
You could do a solid state switching arrangement
but it's pretty complex. Here's a manual switch
scheme.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/2xBat.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "louis palmenteri" <phebe38(at)hotmail.com> |
hi all,
i have a problem. im using schematic z-11 i have a vans aircraft -40 0 40
ammeter with a 40 amp shunt. i connected it in series with the main bus
power feed line. im using an internally regulated alternator. havent hooked
it up yet though. when i power up my electrical system and turn on my icom
ac200 when i key the ptt or mic the ammeter swings rapidly to full
discharge. if the radio is off and i key the ptt or mic it doesnt swing.
1 why is this happening and where should i connect my alternator b lead in
this installation.
thanks Lou Palmenteri
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board etc. |
I have ordered parts and boards for three VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board units in
nice little cases. These should be completed and shipped by Friday Sept 27.
One is still available.
I have ordered boards and parts for an SMT version of Bob's Low Voltage Warning
and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm X 32 mm) . I could make
up kits of these, but you'd have to be into doing REALLY REALLY small electronic
assembly under a microscope. These connect via 1/4" Fastons instead of sub-D9.
I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws 6 mA and switches
1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an engine (or discharge
a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state features. (Test data still
to come...I'm have a problem finding big test loads).This thing is 1" X 2 1/2"
X .300 and weighs in at 1/2 Ounce.
Contact me off-list if you are interested.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
Glastar builder
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
"John Slade" wrote : Re: Fuel tank grounding
> Sorry if I came off as a bit wild-eyed on this.
Not at all. I really enjoyed enjoyed the rant.
Hi Bob,
I enjoyed it too. There are far too many PC idiots around these days that won't
tell it how it is.
Thank God (can I say that?) you aren't one.
Keep up the very good work
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A fuse. N919RV resvd.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Subject: | Ground conduit for a pusher |
As I start to gather the parts for my electrical system, I have heard that I can
use a copper tube for the ground on a pusher plane. I went to the local hardware
store to look at the choices. What would be the appropriate size copper
tubing that I should use? I think that the duct can handle a 3/4" tube. Does
it make a difference if the copper tube is an "L Blue" or a "M Red " copper
tube? Should I cover the outside of the copper tubing?
When I attach the neg to the outside of the tube, should I also solder the connection?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net> |
Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking
around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio..
I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should
also use the same pinouts..
Thanks,
Dave
Murphy Super Rebel #57
Vancouver, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Narco COM pinout |
Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first
attempt..
Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking
around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio..
I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should
also use the same pinouts..
Thanks,
Dave
Murphy Super Rebel #57
Vancouver, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave,
I have the info at the hangar. I will get it tomorrow and if no one has
already sent it, I will.
Sam Chambers
Long-EZ N775AM
Glasgow, KY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Safety rant
>
>
> Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie
kicking
> around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio..
>
> I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should
> also use the same pinouts..
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
> Murphy Super Rebel #57
> Vancouver, BC
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <nauga(at)brick.net> |
Subject: | Internal reg alternators mystery wiring |
I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks
to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the
next question.
I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal
regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's
a picture of the back of an identical model at:
http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html
with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is
hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric
Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated
alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal,
though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see above
link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg
(see:
http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html
Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back
of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar?
If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others
have used the same alternator - I don't know if
anyone's added OV protection.
Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the
shop door open with the old Delco lead brick.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)brick.net
RV-4 FWF and electrical and on and on and on...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
Subject: | ReFuel tank grounding |
Like " Old Bob ", I also remember the Boeing 707 crash in the fairly early operational
life of the model. IIRC, the 707 crashed near Elkton, Md as a result
of being struck by lightning rather than a static discharge and yes this led to
a change in the fuel vent system. I believe this happened sometime in the early
1960s. Apparently the NTSB actual web listings only go back to sometime
in the 1980s, the rest are in off-line records.
Dean
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Subject: | Internal reg alternators mystery wiring |
I'm also at the point of needing an alternator. For those of you who
have gone the route of getting one from the autoparts store or junk
yard, what did you do about the bracketry? Make something custom, or
what?
I've been considering the NiagaraAirparts 40 amp alternator
(http://www.niagaraairparts.com/) because everything seems to be
included. On the downside, it has an internal regulator and is a little
pricey compared to AutoZone -- but still a deal compared to B&C.
Thanks for the input!
-
Larry Bowen
RV-8 finish
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of nauga(at)brick.net
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:58 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring
>
>
>
> I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks
> to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the
> next question.
>
> I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal
> regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's
> a picture of the back of an identical model at:
>
> http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html
>
> with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is
> hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric
> Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated
> alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal,
> though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see
> above link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg
> (see:
> http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html
>
> Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back
> of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar?
> If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others
> have used the same alternator - I don't know if
> anyone's added OV protection.
>
> Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the
> shop door open with the old Delco lead brick.
>
> Dave Hyde
> nauga(at)brick.net
> RV-4 FWF and electrical and on and on and on...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Narco COM pinout |
>
>Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first
>attempt..
>
>
>Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking
>around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio..
>
>I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should
>also use the same pinouts..
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>Murphy Super Rebel #57
>Vancouver, BC
sure. Download http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%2011b.pdf
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring |
>
>I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks
>to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the
>next question.
>
>I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal
>regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's
>a picture of the back of an identical model at:
>
>http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html
>
>with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is
>hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric
>Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated
>alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal,
>though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see above
>link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg
>(see:
>http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html
>
>Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back
>of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar?
>If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others
>have used the same alternator - I don't know if
>anyone's added OV protection.
>
>Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the
>shop door open with the old Delco lead brick.
I'd connect the S and IG terminals together and
use them as crowbar ov protected input from your
alternator control switch.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Narco COM pinout |
Gee Bob,
Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin
outs for a Narco 122 ?
Thanks, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Narco COM pinout
>
> >
> >Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first
> >attempt..
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie
kicking
> >around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio..
> >
> >I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should
> >also use the same pinouts..
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dave
> >Murphy Super Rebel #57
> >Vancouver, BC
>
> sure. Download http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%2011b.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
>
> > IDEAL would
> > >be a little kit with all the required parts and instructions in a plastic
> > >bag - I'd be happy to PAY for such a kit.
> >
> > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built
> > and are in service in various places around RAC.
> >
>Great. Can I be the first customer? When?
If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right
now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf
Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week.
I expect them to be on the order of $35.00
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: ammeter swings |
>
>
>
>hi all,
>
>i have a problem. im using schematic z-11 i have a vans aircraft -40 0 40
>ammeter with a 40 amp shunt. i connected it in series with the main bus
>power feed line. im using an internally regulated alternator. havent hooked
>it up yet though. when i power up my electrical system and turn on my icom
>ac200 when i key the ptt or mic the ammeter swings rapidly to full
>discharge. if the radio is off and i key the ptt or mic it doesnt swing.
>
>1 why is this happening and where should i connect my alternator b lead in
>this installation.
The -zero+ ammeter isn't fully useful as a battery ammeter
in any of the power distribution diagrams I've published. For
this instrument to work like it does in the '49 Chevy and most
airplanes, the alternator b-lead needs to tie to the bus.
If you want to stay with this instrument, I'd put the shunt
in the alternator b-lead and attache the b-lead via a fuse/current
limiter to the starter contactor. The instrument would simply
behave as an alternator loadmeter and always show (+) readings.
Do you plan to have active notification of low voltage? A voltmeter
too?
I am mystified as to why it's behaving as you describe. It sounds
like the ammeter is seeing full bus current draw instead of
the proportional fraction that would pass off from the shunt.
I suspect incorrect shunt size or a wiring problem.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Narco COM pinout |
>
>
>Gee Bob,
>
>Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin
>outs for a Narco 122 ?
sure. http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%20122.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board |
etc.
>
>I have ordered parts and boards for three VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board
>units in nice little cases. These should be completed and shipped by
>Friday Sept 27. One is still available.
>
>I have ordered boards and parts for an SMT version of Bob's Low Voltage
>Warning and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm X 32 mm) . I
>could make up kits of these, but you'd have to be into doing REALLY
>REALLY small electronic assembly under a microscope. These connect via
>1/4" Fastons instead of sub-D9.
>
>I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws 6 mA and
>switches 1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an
>engine (or discharge a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state
>features. (Test data still to come...I'm have a problem finding big test
>loads).
Try coils of closeline wire.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Of to Camarillo until Monday |
Will be off-list for a few days. Gotta go talk to some guys
about airplanes.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit behind the
empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting
performance?
Or
Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or
Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. They seem to
be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Subject: | Intresting electrical question |
Thanks, though I cant see it. Any chance it could be mailed to me?
Ian
jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intresting electrical question
-->
>-->
>
>I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I
>was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches?
>(charge in parallel and use in series)
>
>Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v
>
>They do not need to be used while charging?
>
>Can it be done without switches?
>
>If not what is the simplest way with least switches?
>
>Thanks
>
>Ian Scott
You could do a solid state switching arrangement
but it's pretty complex. Here's a manual switch
scheme.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/2xBat.jpg
Bob . . .
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
Bob,
Your schematic doesn't show any pin numbers on the DB-9. Any chance of updating
the .PDF file with this information?
I'm interested in one of the assembled units when it's available...
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N925RV
2003 Hrs of safe flying!
Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management Module
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net)
Date: Thu Sep 19 - 8:19 PM
>
> > IDEAL would
> > >be a little kit with all the required parts and instructions in a plastic
> > >bag - I'd be happy to PAY for such a kit.
> >
> > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built
> > and are in service in various places around RAC.
> >
>Great. Can I be the first customer? When?
If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right
now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf
Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week.
I expect them to be on the order of $35.00
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
> > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built
> > > and are in service in various places around RAC.
> > >
> >Great. Can I be the first customer? When?
>
> If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right
> now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at:
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf
>
> Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week.
>
> I expect them to be on the order of $35.00
Sounds good to me. I presume that the resitors, LED etc. are additional to
the $10 - bought locally from RS. In which case it would be worth it to me
to pay for the completed / tested board.
I looked at the picture of the board and have one question....
How would this mount in a panel?
Could the LED be mounted remote from the board?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Subject: | adjustable voltage regulator |
I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable voltage regulator
for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or can I use (which
one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they really are) with Bob's
dual voltage monitor & notification kit?
Dave Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "bob999" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel tank grounding |
Cy,
You are correct in your statement, however that is one of several ways to
build up more than enough static electricity to create a static discharge.
Static discharges take place many times and we never see or know it. This
can become a dangerous situation, I had the opportunity to be on a safety
review team at the Kennedy Space Center that looked at many situations like
this for rocket fuel and ordnance installation. It can also be generated by
RF energy, that's why no radios, cell phone, etc (unless they are
intrinsically safe) should be carried to the fueling location. It is clearly
not a good idea to attach a static ground connection at the filler neck,
unless it is a permanent connection that is taken to the airframe. A good
point of connection (always connect the safety ground first and remove it
last) for the fuelling station might be the wing tie down or the spring
aluminum landing gear, if during the installation of your fuel tanks you
effective grounded the tanks to the airframe. I used three metal bands
riveted to the wing spar and I also used a ground wire from the float gauge
to the wing spar and without break continued back to the firewall negative
bus connection.
Sorry for being long winded
Bob
N601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
>
> The static charge necessary to create the spark is generated by the flow
of
> gasoline. No flow... No possible spark.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pazmany Newsletter" <pazmanynewsletter(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
>
>
>
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > My concern is that as the fueler brings the grounded nozzle close to the
> > ungrounded filler neck, a spark might jump between the two before they
> make
> > contact. And with the fuel tank open, the fuel to air mixture might be
at
> > the correct ratio to support combustion.
> >
> > Experimenter magazine had an article on this subject a couple of months
> ago,
> > and there's been ongoing discussion in the Letters to the Editor column.
> > One letter writer recommended going to the Petroleum Equipment
Institute's
> > website for more information. Here's a link to an article about fires
in
> > plastic gas cans. http://www.pei.org/FRD/gascan.htm
> >
> > I think I'm going to connect the neck to the airframe so that if any
spark
> > is going to occur, it will happen where the fueler hooks up his ground
> line,
> > not at the filler neck.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hi Electric Bob,
> > > >
> > > >This might be a bit outside of your area of expertise, but I'd like
> your
> > > >opinion anyway. And my question IS electrical in nature.
> > > >
> > > >I'm building a Pazmany PL-2 that has two fiberglass fuel tanks, each
> with
> > an
> > > >aluminum filler neck. The neck is electrically isolated from the
> > airframe,
> > > >and I'm concerned that when refueling, the ground line that is
attached
> > from
> > > >the fuel truck to the airframe will not be effective in grounding the
> > filler
> > > >neck. If a static charge had built up on the tank during flight,
> > grounding
> > > >the airframe would have no effect on the tanks, and a spark might
occur
> > when
> > > >the grounded fuel truck nozzle is touched to the ungrounded filler
> neck.
> > > >
> > > >So, I'm going to connect the filler neck to the airframe. My
question
> is
> > > >should I make it a low resitance connection (just a copper wire), or
> > should
> > > >I place a high resistance in the line (like the wrist straps that
> > electronic
> > > >technicians use when working with static sensitive devices)? My
> > > >understanding is the high resistance would cause the charge to bleed
> off
> > > >slowly instead of all at once as with a low resistance connection,
but
> > I'm
> > > >not sure if that's what I want in this case.
> > >
> > > When a fueler walks up to a Sundowner and puts the nozzle into
> > > the tank, the electrical connection between the fuel truck ground
> > > and the rim of the filler neck is pretty low resistance. I can't
> > > think of any good reason to make that something different for
> > > a plastic airplane.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> > > | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> > > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> > > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> > > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wayne Sweet" <wsweet(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel tank grounding |
Personally, I like the long winded answers.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob999" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
>
> Cy,
>
> You are correct in your statement, however that is one of several ways to
> build up more than enough static electricity to create a static discharge.
> Static discharges take place many times and we never see or know it. This
> can become a dangerous situation, I had the opportunity to be on a safety
> review team at the Kennedy Space Center that looked at many situations
like
> this for rocket fuel and ordnance installation. It can also be generated
by
> RF energy, that's why no radios, cell phone, etc (unless they are
> intrinsically safe) should be carried to the fueling location. It is
clearly
> not a good idea to attach a static ground connection at the filler neck,
> unless it is a permanent connection that is taken to the airframe. A good
> point of connection (always connect the safety ground first and remove it
> last) for the fuelling station might be the wing tie down or the spring
> aluminum landing gear, if during the installation of your fuel tanks you
> effective grounded the tanks to the airframe. I used three metal bands
> riveted to the wing spar and I also used a ground wire from the float
gauge
> to the wing spar and without break continued back to the firewall negative
> bus connection.
>
> Sorry for being long winded
> Bob
> N601XL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
>
>
> >
> > The static charge necessary to create the spark is generated by the flow
> of
> > gasoline. No flow... No possible spark.
> >
> > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
> >
> > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pazmany Newsletter" <pazmanynewsletter(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > My concern is that as the fueler brings the grounded nozzle close to
the
> > > ungrounded filler neck, a spark might jump between the two before they
> > make
> > > contact. And with the fuel tank open, the fuel to air mixture might
be
> at
> > > the correct ratio to support combustion.
> > >
> > > Experimenter magazine had an article on this subject a couple of
months
> > ago,
> > > and there's been ongoing discussion in the Letters to the Editor
column.
> > > One letter writer recommended going to the Petroleum Equipment
> Institute's
> > > website for more information. Here's a link to an article about fires
> in
> > > plastic gas cans. http://www.pei.org/FRD/gascan.htm
> > >
> > > I think I'm going to connect the neck to the airframe so that if any
> spark
> > > is going to occur, it will happen where the fueler hooks up his ground
> > line,
> > > not at the filler neck.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi Electric Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > >This might be a bit outside of your area of expertise, but I'd like
> > your
> > > > >opinion anyway. And my question IS electrical in nature.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm building a Pazmany PL-2 that has two fiberglass fuel tanks,
each
> > with
> > > an
> > > > >aluminum filler neck. The neck is electrically isolated from the
> > > airframe,
> > > > >and I'm concerned that when refueling, the ground line that is
> attached
> > > from
> > > > >the fuel truck to the airframe will not be effective in grounding
the
> > > filler
> > > > >neck. If a static charge had built up on the tank during flight,
> > > grounding
> > > > >the airframe would have no effect on the tanks, and a spark might
> occur
> > > when
> > > > >the grounded fuel truck nozzle is touched to the ungrounded filler
> > neck.
> > > > >
> > > > >So, I'm going to connect the filler neck to the airframe. My
> question
> > is
> > > > >should I make it a low resitance connection (just a copper wire),
or
> > > should
> > > > >I place a high resistance in the line (like the wrist straps that
> > > electronic
> > > > >technicians use when working with static sensitive devices)? My
> > > > >understanding is the high resistance would cause the charge to
bleed
> > off
> > > > >slowly instead of all at once as with a low resistance connection,
> but
> > > I'm
> > > > >not sure if that's what I want in this case.
> > > >
> > > > When a fueler walks up to a Sundowner and puts the nozzle into
> > > > the tank, the electrical connection between the fuel truck
ground
> > > > and the rim of the filler neck is pretty low resistance. I can't
> > > > think of any good reason to make that something different for
> > > > a plastic airplane.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bob . . .
> > > >
> > > > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> > > > | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> > > > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> > > > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> > > > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lehman" <LehmansMtl(at)netzero.com> |
Subject: | adjustable voltage regulator |
> From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: adjustable voltage regulator
>
>
> I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable voltage
regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or can I use (which
one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they really are) with Bob's
dual voltage monitor & notification kit?
>
> Dave Ford
Dave,
There is a 'heavy duty' version of the VR166 Ford type voltage regulator mentioned
in the Bob's book (and shown on some of the schematics) designated VR166X.
The VR166X includes under and over voltage sensing. Undervoltage is a steady
light and over voltage is the same light flashing. Per the manufacturer's instructions,
if the light is flashing, an over voltage has occurred putting the
regulator in 'overcharge protection' mode. They recommend replacing the regulator
and checking the charging system within 72 hours.
Since undervoltage is a steady light in our cars, why not the same in our aircraft?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Subject: | aux battery connection. |
In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery attached
to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the contactor, there is
a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the contactor, the wire
goes to the main battery contactor.
From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery switch must
be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the starting and for the
alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was intended? Could the
aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on the main
line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the aux battery
bus? Am I missing something here?
I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil> |
Subject: | aux battery connection. |
Battery bus's are always on. The are small buses for things like clocks, hobbs
etc as well as for things that need direct connections of their own such as EIs,
etc. They sit right next to the battery.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Kuc [mailto:bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: aux battery connection.
In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery attached
to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the contactor, there is
a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the contactor, the wire
goes to the main battery contactor.
From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery switch must
be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the starting and for the
alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was intended? Could the
aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on the main
line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the aux battery
bus? Am I missing something here?
I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wiring diagram program |
From: | Boyd Blue <blblue(at)earthlink.net> |
Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to
draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify
it easily.
Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is
the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps.
Thanks for the help!
Boyd Blue
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram program |
If you are looking for something simple to use, then if you have a
spreadsheet or a wordprocessor, you can probably make use of that. They
both should be able to create boxes that you can label. You can then draw
lines to the boxes.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Blue" <blblue(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring diagram program
>
> Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to
> draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify
> it easily.
> Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is
> the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Boyd Blue
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram program |
From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 03:01 PM, Boyd Blue wrote:
> Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is
> the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps.
>
The drawing module in Appleworks should do this pretty easily, and
comes free on the iMac. It's not terribly well documented, but it
works fine. e-mail me offline if I can help.
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
>
>Bob,
>
> Your schematic doesn't show any pin numbers on the DB-9. Any chance of
> updating the .PDF file with this information?
> I'm interested in one of the assembled units when it's available...
Yeah, we'll do that. I didn't put them on the DIY drawing cause
most folks would do their own point-to-point wiring and the
pin-out had no rigid requirements. I'll update the drawing to
show pin-outs that match our board.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
>
> > > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built
> > > > and are in service in various places around RAC.
> > > >
> > >Great. Can I be the first customer? When?
> >
> > If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right
> > now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at:
> >
> > http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf
> >
> > Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week.
> >
> > I expect them to be on the order of $35.00
>Sounds good to me. I presume that the resitors, LED etc. are additional to
>the $10 - bought locally from RS. In which case it would be worth it to me
>to pay for the completed / tested board.
>I looked at the picture of the board and have one question....
>How would this mount in a panel?
>Could the LED be mounted remote from the board?
>John Slade
This board doesn't mount on a panel. There are TWO leds in the
circuit. One is on the board and in series with the other which
is remotely mounted. See wiring diagram. I've already used this
assembly in several applications at RAC where it was handy to
have a "repeater" LED that could be seen by looking at the board
when the one on the panel was 25' and a pressure bulkhead away.
If one didn't want to include the second LED, you can just
put a jumper wire across it's solder pads.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | To be or not to be . . . a two battery installation |
In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery
attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the
contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the
contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor.
Correct.
From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery
switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the
starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was
intended?
Right. Normal operating mode for the aux battery master is ON for
all flight operations EXCEPT alternator-out/battery-only ops wherein
BOTH battery contactors are opened and the system drops to minimum
consumption of a limited resource until the airport is in sight.
At this time, you can reclose the main battery contactor and use whatever
energy is left to run whatever you please without placing and electrically
dependent engine at risk.
This is what the lv warn/abmm does for you automatically. You go to ON
for cranking, AUTO for all other ops. If the alternator goes off
line, the aux battery will not be tapped for any task other than
keep an engine running.
Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on
the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the
aux battery bus? Am I missing something here?
Can't imagine why you would want to do this. Battery busses are BATTERY
busses. If the battery is good, that bus is ready to deal with tasks
assigned to that bus - generally limited to electrically dependent
engine support and misc tasks like dome lights, clocks, hobbs, etc. that
need to run even if all masters are OFF.
Running ANYTHING else is done with a considered positioning of MASTER
and E-Bus Alternate Feed switches.
I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard.
I presume you have an electrically dependent engine wherein
half of the stuff to run the engine can be split between
two batteries and EITHER battery will support the engine
all by itself if needs be.
I've got some builders working with various automotive
conversions with single fuel injection and/or ignition
systems. Dual batteries don't do you any good here. Your
properly maintained RG battery is not going to fail. Modern
RG Batteries don't fail, they get run past useful service life and
wear out.
If I were building with this kind of engine setup, I'd run
ignition/fuel systems from fusible links right off the
hot side of the battery contactor and keep on truck'n
-------------------------------------------------------
P.S. I do some of my clearest thinking in the shower.
While getting ready to go to work, I decided I'd stuck
my foot in it with the above post . . .
TWO batteries may indeed still be a good thing to
consider even if your engine's requirements cannot
be evenly split between two batteries. A main battery
could be tapped for e-bus energy while an aux battery
gets partitioned off for engine support.
Even if you can run an engine from EITHER battery,
I would shut off half of engine loads on the main
battery during battery only ops so that the main
battery is only tasked to support e-bus loads.
If you can go all-electric with two engine driven
power sources, then one might save quite a bit of
weight by not having a second battery . . . but
with one alternator, two batteries are a good thing
to consider irrespective of how engine loads are
distributed between them.
Keep in mind that if either battery proves inadequate
to it's assigned task, you can always close the
master switches to tie them both together . . .
in this extremely rare, dual failure condition,
you now have an electrical EMERGENCY and getting
on the ground IOPASAP is the order of the day.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Narco COM pinout _ OOPS! |
>
>
> >
> >
> >Gee Bob,
> >
> >Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin
> >outs for a Narco 122 ?
>
>
> sure. http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_%20122.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
Just sat down to check the weekend's e-mail and noticed that the
document I posted in answer to this question was supposed to be
TWO pages long. Sorry 'bout that. I've reposted the NAV 121/122
drawing at http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_122.pdf
I note there is a model 122A also. Didn't check details to see
how or if they were wired differently but in case this is the
model you have, the pin-out is http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_122A.pdf
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: adjustable voltage regulator |
>
>
> > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: adjustable voltage regulator
> >
> >
> > I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable
> voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?)
> or can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they
> really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit?
> >
> > Dave Ford
>
>Dave,
>
>There is a 'heavy duty' version of the VR166 Ford type voltage regulator
>mentioned in the Bob's book (and shown on some of the schematics)
>designated VR166X. The VR166X includes under and over voltage
>sensing. Undervoltage is a steady light and over voltage is the same
>light flashing. Per the manufacturer's instructions, if the light is
>flashing, an over voltage has occurred putting the regulator in
>'overcharge protection' mode. They recommend replacing the regulator and
>checking the charging system within 72 hours.
>
>Since undervoltage is a steady light in our cars, why not the same in our
>aircraft?
Why do you want two kinds of lights? An undervoltage condition is
a static condition that warrants the attention-getting annunciation
afforded by flashing the light. I'm mystified as to why anyone
would put an over-voltage sensor and light in the airplane. From the
time the regulator fails and the voltage climbs high enough to trip
the crowbar is something on the order of 100 milliseconds. After
the alternator is shut down, what WAS a very short lived ov condition
IS NOW a long term lv condition. An ov annunciation would serve no
useful purpose.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: aux battery connection. |
>
>In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery
>attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the
>contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of
>the contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor.
Correct.
> From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery
> switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the
> starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what
> was intended?
Right. Normal operating mode for the aux battery master is ON for
all flight operations EXCEPT alternator-out/battery-only ops wherein
BOTH battery contactors are opened and the system drops to minimum
consumption of a limited resource until the airport is in sight.
At this time, you can reclose the main battery contactor and use whatever
energy is left to run whatever you please without placing and electrically
dependent engine at risk.
This is what the lv warn/abmm does for you automatically. You go to ON
for cranking, AUTO for all other ops. If the alternator goes off
line, the aux battery will not be tapped for any task other than
keep an engine running.
> Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always
> visible on the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off
> the power to the aux battery bus? Am I missing something here?
Can't imagine why you would want to do this. Battery busses are BATTERY
busses. If the battery is good, that bus is ready to deal with tasks
assigned to that bus - generally limited to electrically dependent
engine support and misc tasks like dome lights, clocks, hobbs, etc. that
need to run even if all masters are OFF.
Running ANYTHING else is done with a considered positioning of MASTER
and E-Bus Alternate Feed switches.
>I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard.
I presume you have an electrically dependent engine wherein
half of the stuff to run the engine can be split between
two batteries and EITHER battery will support the engine
all by itself if needs be.
I've got some builders working with various automotive
conversions with single fuel injection and/or ignition
systems. Dual batteries don't do you any good here. Your
properly maintained RG battery is not going to fail. Modern
RG Batteries don't fail, they get run past useful service life and
wear out.
If I were building with this kind of engine setup, I'd run
ignition/fuel systems from fusible links right off the
hot side of the battery contactor and keep on truck'n
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: adjustable voltage regulator |
>
>I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable
>voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or
>can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they
>really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit?
>
>Dave Ford
There are a number of adjustable automotive regulators I've
seen over the years but if you're not interested in the LR3
the how about the generic Ford VR-166? You'll find that
this guy runs 14.2 +/- 0.2 volts as installed and will
be just fine as-is.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: ELT antennae? |
>
>I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit behind the
>empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting
>performance?
No
>Or
>
>Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or
>Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. They seem to
>be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely.
Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for
aviation would work.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Why breaker for alternator field? |
I'm building a two alternator two battery system, but will use a very small battery
for the B&C SD20, regulated with the LR3. I have several questions:
1. Why have a 5 amp breaker for the alternator field? I would prefer a toggle
switch and a fuse, sized to twice the maximum explected field current. A
fusible link could be used instead, or even a Raychem Polyswitch rated 5 amps
such as the RUE500-UD at $0.79 from DigiKey.
2. Each alternator-the SD20 and the Jabiru flywheel mounted PM unit-can put
out 20 amps max. Would a 16 gauge fusible link be reasonable rather than an
ANL30? Or, parallel two RHE1000-ND 10 amp PolySwitches, each of which trip at
18 amps and cost $1.10 each. I'm afraid the wimpy 5 amp/hr Panasonic sealed
lead acid battery might not be able to trip the ANL30, which costs much more
anyway.
3. I will be combining the PM alternator connection of Z-13 with the dual
bus dual alternator architecture of Z-14, except it will be adjusted to avoid
crossfeed during starting, and the crossfeed relay and the aux battery contactor
will be small units with 88 ohm coils. Both alternators will have low voltage
indicators. On the PM alternator, since it will be used during normal operations,
should the output go to the battery side of the main contactor as in
Z-12, or to the output side as on all the other diagrams?
4. I will be dividing my loads between the two busses. I suppose that I should
divide the essential loads between them, but it would be less confusing
to have all the avionics on one bus, lights on the other. The crossfeed relay
keeps both busses alive, unless one bus has a short to ground. Divide the essential
loads?
Thanks, Jim Foerster J400, 50% done
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Ground conduit for a pusher |
>
>As I start to gather the parts for my electrical system, I have heard
>that I can use a copper tube for the ground on a pusher plane. I went to
>the local hardware store to look at the choices. What would be the
>appropriate size copper tubing that I should use? I think that the duct
>can handle a 3/4" tube. Does it make a difference if the copper tube is
>an "L Blue" or a "M Red " copper tube? Should I cover the outside of the
>copper tubing?
>
>When I attach the neg to the outside of the tube, should I also solder the
>connection?
I built one conduit ground system into a Long_Ez about
15 years ago for an Army RPV spook airplane project.
It WAS useful in reducing noise to minimize
the sensitive eavesdropping equipment that
was to be in the back seat.
I described that ground system in early issues
of the 'Connection as attractive both from the
noise mitigation perspective -and- the relative
ease with which wires could be snaked the length
of the airplane during installation.
A number of builders have used this technique
but reported that it was pretty labor intensive
for installation. Further, given that we're
not building black-ops machines and given
the successful operating history of hundreds
of canard pusher aircraft without conduit
grounds, I'll recommend you consider a less
ambitious approach as described in Figure
Z-15 View B.
If you're really enamored of the conduit
ground, then use the thinnest tube you can
find. The thinnest 3/4" diam tube will have
a copper cross section equal to or greater
than 2AWG wire.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Why breaker for alternator field? |
>
>
>I'm building a two alternator two battery system, but will use a very
>small battery for the B&C SD20, regulated with the LR3. I have several
>questions:
> 1. Why have a 5 amp breaker for the alternator field? I would
> prefer a toggle switch and a fuse, sized to twice the maximum explected
> field current. A fusible link could be used instead, or even a Raychem
> Polyswitch rated 5 amps such as the RUE500-UD at $0.79 from DigiKey.
overvoltage protection in the form of crowbar circuits deliberately open
the field
supply protection. there are situations where ov nuisance tripping can
occur when
in fact no ov condition exists and until we can built the ultimate,
know-it-all
ov protection system, this is ONE circuit that I recommend be a circuit
breaker
and mounted in reach of pilot as illustrated in the switch panel layouts
I published
earlier this month.
fusible links are used when you have a single leadwire to protect where
it is
VERY unlikely that it will ever see a serious fault and/or where the
ultimate
in circuit reliablity is needed. You would never use a fusible link upstream
of a crowbar module expecting it to be the reacting device in case of ov
condition.
> 2. Each alternator-the SD20 and the Jabiru flywheel mounted PM
> unit-can put out 20 amps max. Would a 16 gauge fusible link be
> reasonable rather than an ANL30?
Probably, but . . .
> Or, parallel two RHE1000-ND 10 amp PolySwitches, each of which trip at
> 18 amps and cost $1.10 each. I'm afraid the wimpy 5 amp/hr Panasonic
> sealed lead acid battery might not be able to trip the ANL30, which costs
> much more anyway.
The fusible link is as robust as an ANL limiter. If you don't want to
use the ANL
then get an inline fuseholder from an automotive parts store that will
accommodate
the MAXIfuses . . . big brothers to the ATC series fuses that fit our
fuseblocks.
A 30A maxifuse would be just about right. Please ditch the polyfuses.
These are
NOT suited to aircraft power distribution system fault management.
> 3. I will be combining the PM alternator connection of Z-13 with the
> dual bus dual alternator architecture of Z-14, except it will be adjusted
> to avoid crossfeed during starting, and the crossfeed relay and the aux
> battery contactor will be small units with 88 ohm coils. Both
> alternators will have low voltage indicators. On the PM alternator,
> since it will be used during normal operations, should the output go to
> the battery side of the main contactor as in Z-12, or to the output side
> as on all the other diagrams?
Output side. . .
> 4. I will be dividing my loads between the two busses. I suppose
> that I should divide the essential loads between them, but it would be
> less confusing to have all the avionics on one bus, lights on the
> other. The crossfeed relay keeps both busses alive, unless one bus has a
> short to ground. Divide the essential loads?
I'd treat the second bus as an "essential" bus . . . when you
have fully redundant power generation systems with crossfeed
capability, you don't need to have an "essential" bus that
can be isolated for battery only operations.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram program |
>
>Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to
>draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify
>it easily.
>Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is
>the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps.
>
>Thanks for the help!
>Boyd Blue
"simple" usually gets you an equally low grade
drawing system. I have several cad programs that
are distributed on the CD rom that I sell that
will open and use the wiring diagrams and library
of symbols used for diagrams already on the CD.
These run in Windows. You can get an old '486 machine
with something as old as Win3.11 for Workgroups for
under $200 to do your wiring diagrams. Frankly, if this
is the ONLY thing you'll ever use the cad program for
I'd make up all the drawings free-hand, in pencil
(page per system drawings). After your project is done,
trace them with a fine point Pilot brand ink pen using
straight edge. Use pink pearl eraser to clean off the
old pencil marks. Fog the pages lightly with clear
Krylon spray and you'll have a wire book that is low
tech, easy to generate, and will look 1000% more professional
than anything you can draw with a computer based
illustration program.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Internal regulation |
>
>I have a 60 amp internal regulated alternator on my 6A.
>
>I brought 12volts from a 5 amp breaker to the "L" on the alternator. I
>have the B lead running back to Bob's 80 amp fuse .
>I also have the OV module from the breaker to ground. I have 50 hours on
>it now.
Why did you choose to wire it this way?
>MY RV4 friend just went through melt down on all the instruments & his
>radios.
>I rewired it for him & I am trying to talk him into the OV module & the
>large in line fuss.
>
>Now my problem is when you start with the breaker pulled, the alternator
>is not on line.
>If you close the breaker the alternator comes on line & pulling the
>breaker will not take it off line.
>Therefore, my OV module can not trip the 5amp breaker to shut her down
>on a run away.
Yup . . . they do that.
>I have noticed Bob is recommending a connactor between the alternator &
>my 80 inline fuse, which I just bought & will install.
Good idea . . .
>Why is the internal voltage regulator working without the control
>voltage? I think the regulator is getting control voltage from the B
>lead.
That's how they are designed. The control lead is there
only to allow the engine management computer to DELAY
turn-on of the alternator until after the engine is running.
After the alternator is running, the rest of the car could
care less about turning it off . . . hence the latch-on
behavior you've noted.
We've written and warned about this condition for over
10 years in our published works and on dozens of internet
discussions and detailed postings.
None the less, the MAJORITY of amateur airplane builders
are either unaware of or choose not to take advantage of
information that explains how their systems work. Most
have no problems and they tend to validate their choices
when describing them to others with statements like,
"I got a bizillion hours on my system and never had
a problem" . . . which is true only because they've
spun the wheel and their number simply hasn't hit
yet. A few, like your friend, are not so fortunate.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Is there a listing somewhere that has the different codes explained for
wires such as MS22759/16-12, MS27500, etc.?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Roberto Giusti" <roby(at)mail.com> |
Try the following link:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html
You may get more than you need.
Roberto Giusti
RV8 QB in Italy
Wings
> Is there a listing somewhere that has the different codes
> explained for wires such as MS22759/16-12, MS27500, etc.?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Internal regulation |
>
>Bob:
>
>As for the 4 problem, I don't know how it ran as long as it did without
>melt down.
>The field control was unfussed from the buss through the alternator
>switch. then to the B lead.
>the B lead ran from the same unfussed buss to a 35 amp breaker ( that is
>welded closed) to the B lead.
>I have no idea where the two little burned up wires on the voltage
>regulator went.
>I re wired it with my V166 exteranl voltage regulator. He bought a new 35
>amp b lead breaker.
>I told him to buy a 40 amp inline fuse for the b lead & your OV relay to
>trip a new 5 amp breaker in the control line.
>I also offered to rewire the plane with some fusses.
Good idea . . .
>The reason I have a internal regulator is it was the only one I could
>find that was 60 amp & had 10:30 clocking.
>My alternator mechanic said it would work, but after the 4 happning I
>realizded my OV sapper with not work.
>I am trying to find a wiring diagram for it. I hope to pull a control
>line out so it will work Can I disarm ( cut some wires inside) & go get
>another VR166 ford regulator to fix it.
I don't think I would go inside a perfectly good working
alternator just to gain control unless I was really sure
about getting it back together. There's nothing inherently
evil about a modern automotive alternator as long as we've
got a firewall between the alternator and one of the
dirty tricks it MIGHT play. Chances are it will do just
fine for a very long time . . . but the risk is not zero.
>I got my new master contactor yesterday to install in the b lead line in
>front of my 80 inline fuse.
>I don't see where it will do anything for me. I followed your layout 2
>years ago when I built it. the contactor was not called for then.
Back then, the #1 recommendation was to get the alternator
modified for use with external regulator. Some time back,
B&C used to offer that service. They had to discontinue the
practice and there seemed to be few automotive alternator
shops that could/would do a good job. Builders were
trashing a perfectly good alternator in the attempt to
get rid of the internal regulator.
Soooo . . . rather that FIGHT with them, I figured that
the series contactor was a way to LIVE with them.
>Did some phisics law change? I still hope my 80 amp inline is going
>before I could turn anything off in 50 milliseconds.
The in-line fuse is NOT overvoltage protection. The
inline fuse will keep things from getting out of hand
should the alternator loose some diodes and become
a dead short across your battery.
The ONLY ov protection is to devise some means for
either (1) killing all field excitation in case of an
ov condition (a la LR-3 or VR-166 with external
crowbar system) -or- (2) physically disconnecting the
alternator's b-lead terminal from the system should
an ov condition occur. This puts a highly stressed,
power relay in series with the alternator . . . not
the best of solutions but hey, we're FAILURE TOLERANT,
right?
You're more likely to loose that contactor than to
have an ov condition . . . but losing the contactor
doesn't smoke anything and your nicely maintained
RG battery is going get you all the way to Aunt
Martha's where the prospect of doing some minor
maintenance is no more than an inconvenience.
I've been toying with a crowbar ov system that could
be used directly on the b-lead output of an alternator.
This has to be a smart sensor that absolutely will not
nuisance trip. It's proper operation will also depend
on the owner operator's willingness to keep a fresh RG
battery installed. A really FAT crowbar system will need
700-1000 amps to trip it in a timely manner.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
My San Diego server got rebooted last Friday and the folks
who managed re-establishing the other two server sites on the
machine forgot about mine. It's back up now.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Internal regulation |
>
>Thanks again Bob:
>
>I thought the 80 amp inline will go when the volts near infinity. Don't
>the current go up with the run away volts?
Nope. An alternator is very nearly a constant current
device even in the runaway mode. Unlike a generator,
alternators refuse to burn their own brains bout by
overloading them.
>anyway, I am going to ask Paul (my altenator man) to open her up. Seems
>like all I have to do is move the pin I am using to the fields & bypass
>the internal regulator & go get another VR166 . Then that OV relay won't
>just be weight.
Yeahhhhh . . . BUT. I think you'll probably find that
one side of your field winding is attached to the b-lead
output terminal or perhaps a third set of diodes in the
alternator. This lead needs to get grounded in addition
to bringing the other end out of the alternator for an
external regulator. Most folks have lost their conversion
project with poor craftsmanship/understanding of how this
is accomplished without compromising the mechanical integrity
of the stock design.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:38 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT antennae?
>
>
> -->
>
> >-->
> >
> >I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit
> behind the
> >empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting
> >performance?
>
> No
>
> >Or
> >
> >Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or
> >Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too.
> They seem to
> >be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely.
>
> Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for
> aviation would work.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> ===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | Re: ELT antennae? |
Ah.... let's see.... two times 121.5 equals.....yes!.....243.0!!
This means your quarter-wave antenna on 121.5 will work fine as a
half-wave antenna on 243.0.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
======================
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:38 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT antennae?
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > >-->
> > >
> > >I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit
> > behind the
> > >empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting
> > >performance?
> >
> > No
> >
> > >Or
> > >
> > >Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or
> > >Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too.
> > They seem to
> > >be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely.
> >
> > Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for
> > aviation would work.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
Subject: | LR3 mounting location? |
Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information.
Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator.
I am building a RV9 (for reference)
The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall. However
a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go anywhere I like
(even forward of the firewall).
So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard to reach
under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the firewall where
it's easy to get to with the cowl open?
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
Wire Wire everywhere...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: ELT antennae? |
>
>Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0?
If you have a multi frequency ELT, you may have to stay with the
antenna recommended/supplied with the transmitter. A simple
1/4-wave vertical will accept power when fed at one end
with coax but at 2x the frequency, it electrically disappears
only to magically reappear as the frequency of interest approaches
3x. A multi-frequency transmitter needs a special antenna.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR3 mounting location? |
>
>Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information.
>
>Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator.
>
>I am building a RV9 (for reference)
>
>The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall.
>However a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go
>anywhere I like (even forward of the firewall).
>
>So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard
>to reach under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the
>firewall where it's easy to get to with the cowl open?
EVERY manufacturer would like for you to pamper their
products as much as practical . . . but thousands of
these critters are running fine on the firewall just
like hundreds of thousands of their cousins in the
world of certified antiquity.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR3 mounting location? |
I located equipment based on the number of wires that needed to penetrate the firewall.
The LR3 voltage regulator has only one wire that needs to go forward to the alternator.
The other wires need to connect to the bus/switches.
I built a little 4X6 horizontal "shelf" that was mounted to the lower flange of
the instrument sub panel (F-7105B). The aft edge of the shelf was screwed to
the flange and the forward edge was supported
by a brace running up to the upper part of the sub panel. Be sure to locate all
fasteners so you can remove them while working under the panel. Use nut plates.
The LR3 voltage regulator was mounted to lower side of the shelf and some other
equipment that had to be mounted "level" was mounted to the upper side of the
shelf.
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk VA, RV-6A
Andy Karmy wrote:
>
> Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information.
>
> Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator.
>
> I am building a RV9 (for reference)
>
> The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall. However
a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go anywhere I like
(even forward of the firewall).
>
> So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard to reach
under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the firewall
where it's easy to get to with the cowl open?
>
> - Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
> Wire Wire everywhere...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: O/V protection again |
Hi, Bob. I know the answer to this must be in the Connection somewhere,
but I have been unable to find it. Regarding fig. Z-24, O/V protection
with an internally regualted alternator:
1. What is the need for the O/V contactor? Can't the Crowbar module just
cause the alternator field breaker to pop?
Alternators with built in regulators don't get field power
through the control wire going into the back . . . there
are failure modes INSIDE the alternator that cannot be controlled
from outside. Hence the need to physically disconnect the
alternator's b-lead from the rest of the airplane.
2. Why is there a fusible link between the buss bar and switch, with the
breaker after the switch? Why not just a 5 Amp breaker off the main buss?
Because if the main bus is a fuse block -AND- it's remotely mounted
for convenience of installation and maintenance then it's also
remote to the panel where the 5A breaker needs to go. This puts a
longer-than-6-inches hot wire between the fuse block and the
breaker that is best protected with a fusible link.
Sorry if these are questions you have answered lots of times. I would like
to keep the number of contactors to a minimum, and would also like to
understand the system.
To eliminate the extra contactor, go to an externally regulated
alternator.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: O/V protection again |
Bob,
That Z11A (duel battery, single alternator) schematic you released a couple
of weeks ago is perfect for what I'm doing. Any chance of getting the same
in DWG format?
John Slade
Cozy IV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? |
I've got my Lancair ES panel almost completely planned, but I'm stuck on a
couple of points relating to electrical instrumentation and
annunciation. I plan a dual alternator (60 and 20 amps), dual battery
system with a main bus and an auxiliary bus that carries the
essentials. One battery will be small and will not be used for cranking,
but I will still have a crossfeed with a S704-1 relay as Mr. Nuckolls has
suggested in several posts over the past few months. The same size relay
will be used to replace the aux battery contactor in Z-14, per Mr.
Nuckolls. I will have a VM-1000, as well as a "backup" volts/amps meter
from Electronics International. My rationale for the backup electrical
instrumentation is that I can't bear the thought of losing the VM-1000
without a backup, because this would rob me of all engine instruments AND
the volts/amps information in an all-electric system. I want to know
what's going on with my electrical system if the VM-1000 fails. The choice
of EI for the backup was largely cosmetic, as it matches my EI fuel
indicator nicely.
My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I
will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total
load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a
switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What
makes the most sense here?
My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator
lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel
pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for
an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already
announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left
part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps
meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a
low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional
indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or
electrical issues?
Looking for opinions,
Dan
Lancair Super ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Crossfeed warning light / switch |
On Figure Z-14, why is it important to have a Crossfeed warning light?
Also, is there any potential harm from having the crossfeed switch on a
separate switch from the starter switch (other than the reduction in # of
switches?
I would like to have all switches OFF in the down position, and ON in the up
position. When starting the engine, is there a problem with first closing a
Crossfeed switch prior to starting the engine, then pressing the momentary
start button, and then turning off the Crossfeed switch after the engine has
started (as opposed to the start and Crossfeed being on the same momentary
switch as the starter). Is there any harm going to be done for those few
seconds that the engine is running, both alternators cranking, and the
Crossfeed contact is closed? (I can't see any problem, but I'm to dumb not
to ask the question)
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "glong2" <glong2(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? |
Dan:
I have the same system as you, dual alternators, regulators and batteries. I
opted for two EI voltage/current monitors to supplement the SFS system. I
will monitor the bus voltage and alternator currents for each alternator.
Because the EI's monitor for under voltage and the B&C regulators trip on
over voltage, I am not using additional enunciator lights for electrical
functions.
Since the SFS system monitors all the other engine parameters, I am not
using additional enunciators for anything else.
Eugene Long
Lancair Super ES
glong2(at)netzero.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
O'Brien
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate?
My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I
will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total
load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a
switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What
makes the most sense here?
My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator
lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel
pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for
an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already
announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left
part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps
meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a
low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional
indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or
electrical issues?
Looking for opinions,
Dan
Lancair Super ES
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Crossfeed warning light / switch |
>
>On Figure Z-14, why is it important to have a Crossfeed warning light?
It's a non-normal operations function to close the cross-feed.
The only reason you close this function continuously is when one
of the alternators is dead. Two normally operating alternators
have been known to "see-saw" the load between them if they're not
specifically tested and shown to work well together.
If one observes aberrant behavior on the system, it would be
well to have cross-feed closed annunciated for a potential clue
as to reason. We do this in bizjets.
>Also, is there any potential harm from having the crossfeed switch on a
>separate switch from the starter switch (other than the reduction in # of
>switches?
>I would like to have all switches OFF in the down position, and ON in the up
>position. When starting the engine, is there a problem with first closing a
>Crossfeed switch prior to starting the engine, then pressing the momentary
>start button, and then turning off the Crossfeed switch after the engine has
>started (as opposed to the start and Crossfeed being on the same momentary
>switch as the starter). Is there any harm going to be done for those few
>seconds that the engine is running, both alternators cranking, and the
>Crossfeed contact is closed? (I can't see any problem, but I'm to dumb not
>to ask the question)
No . . . but why not change to a S700-2-50 switch so that you can
wire it for OFF-XFEED-(START)? I used the -5 switch in the original
drawings because it was less expensive and I'd not located a source
for inexpensive -50 switches.
See figure Z14 switch panel at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to |
Annunciate?
>
>I've got my Lancair ES panel almost completely planned, but I'm stuck on a
>couple of points relating to electrical instrumentation and
>annunciation. I plan a dual alternator (60 and 20 amps), dual battery
>system with a main bus and an auxiliary bus that carries the
>essentials. One battery will be small and will not be used for cranking,
>but I will still have a crossfeed with a S704-1 relay as Mr. Nuckolls has
>suggested in several posts over the past few months. The same size relay
>will be used to replace the aux battery contactor in Z-14, per Mr.
>Nuckolls. I will have a VM-1000, as well as a "backup" volts/amps meter
>from Electronics International. My rationale for the backup electrical
>instrumentation is that I can't bear the thought of losing the VM-1000
>without a backup, because this would rob me of all engine instruments AND
>the volts/amps information in an all-electric system. I want to know
>what's going on with my electrical system if the VM-1000 fails. The choice
>of EI for the backup was largely cosmetic, as it matches my EI fuel
>indicator nicely.
>
>My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I
>will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total
>load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a
>switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What
>makes the most sense here?
>
>My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator
>lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel
>pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for
>an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already
>announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left
>part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps
>meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a
>low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional
>indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or
>electrical issues?
The VM1000 looks at one system at a time. If the VM-1000 fails,
you're not going to come spiraling out of the sky trailing
smoke. Both regulators have low voltage warning and ov protection
so the likelihood that you will have dual failure (vm1000 + something
in an alternator system) in any single flight that goes un-annunciated
is very remote.
I think the VM1000 gets it's voltage sense through the lead
that powers the system. If you loose one alternator, the cross
feed will be closed so the both indicators read the WHOLE system
irrespective of which alternator fails. I'd put the EI system
on one alternator and the VM-1000 system on the other and
be done with it. I would still hook up the low voltage warning
lights for both regulators . . . you already paid for them
and they don't take up much room on panel.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Subject: | Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? |
On my SFS equipped panel, I supplemented the included instrumentation
from the SFS with a JPI volt/amp meter (mainly because the SFS
doesn't/won't display amp draw). I have a dual alt dual bat system
planned, so to get away with one JPI, I added three switches. These
switches are PRI/AUX, V/I, and BAT/ALT. These will allow me to view the
PRI or AUX buss, view V or I on it, and view it from the BAT side of the
buss, or from the ALT side. I think this is pretty complete. Not built
or tested though.
For reference, or if it will help anyone, info on my panel and
electrical system design for my Lancair Legacy is at:
http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/
the .pdf file is a picture of the panel with SFS, etc
the .xls file is a circuit listing and amp draw
the .dwg file is an AutoCAD drawing of my elec system, based on Bob's
Z-14
enjoy, and send me any question, suggestions, comments, etc.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
glong2
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to
Annunciate?
Dan:
I have the same system as you, dual alternators, regulators and
batteries. I
opted for two EI voltage/current monitors to supplement the SFS system.
I
will monitor the bus voltage and alternator currents for each
alternator.
Because the EI's monitor for under voltage and the B&C regulators trip
on
over voltage, I am not using additional enunciator lights for electrical
functions.
Since the SFS system monitors all the other engine parameters, I am not
using additional enunciators for anything else.
Eugene Long
Lancair Super ES
glong2(at)netzero.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
O'Brien
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate?
My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I
will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the
total
load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a
switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches?
What
makes the most sense here?
My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator
lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low
fuel
pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters
for
an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already
announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left
part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps
meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has
a
low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional
indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure
and/or
electrical issues?
Looking for opinions,
Dan
Lancair Super ES
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: O/V protection again |
>
>Bob,
>That Z11A (duel battery, single alternator) schematic you released a couple
>of weeks ago is perfect for what I'm doing. Any chance of getting the same
>in DWG format?
>John Slade
>Cozy IV
goto http://216.55.140.222/temp with your browser and
right-click on Z11A.dwg to download to your hard drive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Phil Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
Subject: | Pilot Priority Relay Assy |
In some of Bob's wiring examples he shows a "Pilot Priority
Relay Assembly" . Does anyone know where I can source this component.
Philip Hildebrand, C.E.T. (General Manager)
Pritchard Industrial
Tel: 204-474-5909
Fax: 204-474-5970
Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
Web: www.pritchardindustrial.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pilot Priority Relay Assy |
>
>
> In some of Bob's wiring examples he shows a "Pilot Priority
>Relay Assembly" . Does anyone know where I can source this component.
I suggested this feature for dual control trim systems
about 5 years ago and so few folks warmed up to the idea,
the product was never developed. It shows on some
suggested wiring for trim systems . . . I think in
a partial AutoCAD drawing for a LancairIVP I published
but the hardware never came into being.
Suggest you check out the trim governor available from
Matronics at:
http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
Subject: | Resistor Orientation |
Hi Folks,
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just
making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System.
It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux"
sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the instructions
call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the end
of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of the
resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor itself.
The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be oriented
in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on this.
Thanks.
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Resistor Orientation |
From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
No
> From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:39:05 -0400
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
> Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just
> making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System.
> It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux"
> sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the
> instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the
> end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of
> the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor
> itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be
> oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on
> this.
> Thanks.
> Bill Yamokoski
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Resistor Orientation |
Bill,
The stripes only are a code for the resistance value of the resistor, it
does not matter what orientation you place it in, it will give the same
value both ways...
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
William Yamokoski
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
Hi Folks,
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of
the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure
sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is
attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire.
The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor
and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a
resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I
appreciate any advice on this.
Thanks.
Bill Yamokoski
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | richard(at)riley.net |
Subject: | Re: Resistor Orientation |
>
>
> Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a
> diode? I appreciate any advice on this.
Wow, one of the few electronics questions I can actually answer!!!
In a word, no.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Resistor Orientation |
No.
Don't forget to set the aux offset and aux scaling factor as provided in the
instructions for the fuel pressure sender.
I'm using the EIS aux channels for fuel pressure and left/right fuel tank
level. Properly calibrated the fuel levels read out in fairly accurate
gallon increments.
Spend some time understanding and making the initial setting entries into
the EIS. It provides a lot of information.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (flying)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
William Yamokoski
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
Hi Folks,
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of
the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure
sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is
attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire.
The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor
and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a
resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I
appreciate any advice on this.
Thanks.
Bill Yamokoski
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Gyros For Sale |
Hi Jerry,
Are your Gyros still for sale?
Thanks,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale
>
> I'm selling my two R.C. Allen 3 1/8" electrical gyros due to my latest
panel
> redesign. The DG and horizon have both been in service and run regularly
> until being removed from my airplane two weeks ago. The DG was purchased
on
> 9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00. The horizon has the 8 degree panel tilt
> adjustment needed for RV's and is placarded as such by the manufacturer.
> There is no manufacturer's warranty, although I will warranty each for
> thirty days to allow the purchaser to inspect the instruments. Each is
> supplied with the required connector, so all one has to do is splice the
> power and ground wires. New price for these instruments is over $1,850
each.
> I'm asking $1,500.00 each, buyer pays shipping.
>
> E-mail me for any questions.
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A
> 155 hrs
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Voltmeter markings |
Hi Bob and all,
I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with
an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean
green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
Thanks in advance,
Gilles Thesee
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Compass location and perturbations |
Hi Bob,
For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL
Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG
would be, if we had one.
Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the
near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
Thanks in advance,
Gilles Thesee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Promotion of Bobs CD |
As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments
part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff"
that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a
lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
any builder.
Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just
want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 50% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Compass location and perturbations |
How about this?
http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html
-LB
--- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL
> Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG
> would be, if we had one.
> Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
> But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the
> near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
> If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Gilles Thesee
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Voltmeter markings |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with
>an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
>The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
>switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
>
>What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean
>green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Subject: | Batery contactor diode |
Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat shrink tubing?
I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
Bob K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: Batery contactor diode |
Might use shrink tubing on the leads but the body is an insulator.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode
>
> Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat
shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
>
>
> Bob K
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
>
>
>As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
>promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
>book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments
>part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff"
>that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a
>lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
>any builder.
>
>Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
>capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
>for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just
>want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
I thought the website description was fairly complete
but okay . . .
I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that
got hosed when I split the website between two different servers
and didn't account for it when the CD got cut.
First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything
you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your
screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This
includes all of the articles and product descriptions.
There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can
easily search for specific words in your word processor or
text editor.
There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and
a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be
modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words,
about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are
symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need
to add.
AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included.
There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit
and print my drawings.
The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended
only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're
free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the
only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to
the CD when you copy it.
When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file
copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high
speed connections can download it directly.
If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
full . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring and
I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after
reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all
the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I
stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or
fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around.
What a great system. Love that master toggle too.
You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a
million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it
without your help.)
Gary K.
Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru
Newport, R.I.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Compass location and perturbations |
Larry,
Thanks for the input.
Nevertheless, we already have the PAI 700 compass.
Cheers,
Gilles
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Larry Bowen"
:
Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 21:47
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations
>
> How about this?
>
> http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html
>
> -LB
>
>
> --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
> > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the
paneL
> > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the
DG
> > would be, if we had one.
> > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
> > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the
> > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
> > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Gilles Thesee
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Voltmeter markings |
Bob,
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.
Gilles
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
:
Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 22:18
Objet : AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings
>
> ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus
with
> >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
> >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
> >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
> >
> >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I
mean
> >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
>
>
> See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable
modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on!
P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have time
to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read
them!
William Slaughter
RV-8 N492WS in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
>As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
>promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
>book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments
>part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff"
>that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a
>lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
>any builder.
>
>Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
>capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
>for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just
>want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
I thought the website description was fairly complete
but okay . . .
I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that
got hosed when I split the website between two different servers
and didn't account for it when the CD got cut.
First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything
you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your
screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This
includes all of the articles and product descriptions.
There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can
easily search for specific words in your word processor or
text editor.
There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and
a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be
modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words,
about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are
symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need
to add.
AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included.
There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit
and print my drawings.
The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended
only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're
free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the
only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to
the CD when you copy it.
When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file
copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high
speed connections can download it directly.
If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
full . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Batery contactor diode |
>
>Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat
>shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
Doesn't have to but it doesn't hurt either. See
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
for how we attach a 1N5400 series diode to the
continuous duty contactor. Our starter contactors
are supplied with a built in diode. If you're
particular contactor doesn't have the diode built
in, you'll need to add one externally between
the "S" terminal (cathod-banded end of diode)
and the contactor's mounting base (anode end)
of diode.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Bob's CD TOO !!!!! |
I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy &
never loose it . Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com> |
Subject: | Re: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! |
I would as well!!!
Britt Jensen
----- Original Message -----
From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
>
>
> I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
> download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy &
> never loose it . Chris
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | re: Resistor Orientation |
The reason resistor winds up at Radio Shack is someone put the color code on the
wrong end anyway.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | davepetrv6(at)comcast.net |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 09/27/02 |
I also mounted my compass in the panel on an RV6A - it was substantially
affected by the electric turn coordinator . To get out of this I wrapped the
turn coordinator with Mu (Greek-sounds like mew) Metal which you can get
from Aircraft Spruce or one of the compass manufacturers . This eliminated
the major problem - there is still some minor problem from the dimmer
rheostat which is also close to it. If you can, keep it away from the
electric gyros and any electrical device which is liable to generate a
magnetic field
----- Original Message -----
From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 09/27/02
> *
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 09/27/02: 21
>
>
____
> From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
> Hi Folks,
> Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of
the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure
sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is
attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire.
The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor
and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a
resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I
appreciate any advice on this.
> Thanks.
> Bill Yamokoski
>
>
____
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
> From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
>
>
> No
>
> > From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us>
> > Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:39:05 -0400
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
Just
> > making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
System.
> > It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the
"Aux"
> > sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor)
the
> > instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached
to the
> > end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other
end of
> > the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the
monitor
> > itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have
to be
> > oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice
on
> > this.
> > Thanks.
> > Bill Yamokoski
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____
> From: "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
> Bill,
> The stripes only are a code for the resistance value of the resistor, it
> does not matter what orientation you place it in, it will give the same
> value both ways...
>
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> William Yamokoski
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
> Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
> Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
> System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one
of
> the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure
> sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is
> attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire.
> The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the
sensor
> and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a
> resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I
> appreciate any advice on this.
> Thanks.
> Bill Yamokoski
>
>
____
> From: richard(at)riley.net
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
> >
> >
> > Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a
> > diode? I appreciate any advice on this.
>
> Wow, one of the few electronics questions I can actually answer!!!
>
> In a word, no.
>
>
____
> From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
> No.
> Don't forget to set the aux offset and aux scaling factor as provided in
the
> instructions for the fuel pressure sender.
> I'm using the EIS aux channels for fuel pressure and left/right fuel tank
> level. Properly calibrated the fuel levels read out in fairly accurate
> gallon increments.
> Spend some time understanding and making the initial setting entries into
> the EIS. It provides a lot of information.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (flying)
> Vienna, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> William Yamokoski
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation
>
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
> Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight.
> Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information
> System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one
of
> the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure
> sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is
> attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire.
> The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the
sensor
> and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a
> resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I
> appreciate any advice on this.
> Thanks.
> Bill Yamokoski
>
>
____
> From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Are your Gyros still for sale?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm selling my two R.C. Allen 3 1/8" electrical gyros due to my latest
> panel
> > redesign. The DG and horizon have both been in service and run regularly
> > until being removed from my airplane two weeks ago. The DG was purchased
> on
> > 9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00. The horizon has the 8 degree panel tilt
> > adjustment needed for RV's and is placarded as such by the manufacturer.
> > There is no manufacturer's warranty, although I will warranty each for
> > thirty days to allow the purchaser to inspect the instruments. Each is
> > supplied with the required connector, so all one has to do is splice the
> > power and ground wires. New price for these instruments is over $1,850
> each.
> > I'm asking $1,500.00 each, buyer pays shipping.
> >
> > E-mail me for any questions.
> >
> > Jerry Carter
> > RV-8A
> > 155 hrs
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____
> From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltmeter markings
>
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus
with
> an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
> The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
> switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
>
> What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I
mean
> green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Gilles Thesee
>
>
____
> From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations
>
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL
> Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG
> would be, if we had one.
> Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
> But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the
> near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
> If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Gilles Thesee
>
>
____
> From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
> As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
> promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
> book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments
> part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff"
> that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a
> lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
> any builder.
>
> Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
> capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
> for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just
> want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
> Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> Finish Kit 50% Complete
>
>
____
> From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations
>
>
> How about this?
>
> http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html
>
> -LB
>
>
> --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
> > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the
paneL
> > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the
DG
> > would be, if we had one.
> > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
> > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the
> > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
> > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Gilles Thesee
> >
>
>
____
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings
>
>
> ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus
with
> >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
> >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
> >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
> >
> >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I
mean
> >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
>
>
> See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
____
> From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode
>
>
> Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat
shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
>
>
> Bob K
>
>
____
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
> >
> >
> >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
> >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
> >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and
instruments
> >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the
"stuff"
> >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has
a
> >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
> >any builder.
> >
> >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
> >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
> >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us
just
> >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
>
> I thought the website description was fairly complete
> but okay . . .
>
> I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that
> got hosed when I split the website between two different servers
> and didn't account for it when the CD got cut.
>
> First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything
> you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your
> screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This
> includes all of the articles and product descriptions.
>
> There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can
> easily search for specific words in your word processor or
> text editor.
>
> There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and
> a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be
> modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words,
> about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are
> symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need
> to add.
>
> AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included.
>
> There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit
> and print my drawings.
>
> The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended
> only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're
> free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the
> only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to
> the CD when you copy it.
>
> When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file
> copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high
> speed connections can download it directly.
>
> If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
> on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
> full . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
____
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode
>
>
> Might use shrink tubing on the leads but the body is an insulator.
>
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> We support Aeroncas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode
>
>
> >
> > Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat
> shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
> >
> >
> > Bob K
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____
> From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
> I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring
and
> I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after
> reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all
> the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I
> stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or
> fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around.
> What a great system. Love that master toggle too.
>
> You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a
> million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it
> without your help.)
>
> Gary K.
> Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru
> Newport, R.I.
>
>
____
> From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations
>
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Larry,
>
> Thanks for the input.
> Nevertheless, we already have the PAI 700 compass.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gilles
>
> ----- Message d'origine -----
> De : "Larry Bowen"
> :
> Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 21:47
> Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations
>
>
> >
> > How about this?
> >
> > http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html
> >
> > -LB
> >
> >
> > --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
> > > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> > >
> > > Hi Bob,
> > >
> > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the
> paneL
> > > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the
> DG
> > > would be, if we had one.
> > > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional.
> > > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by
the
> > > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ?
> > > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Gilles Thesee
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____
> From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings
>
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Bob,
>
> Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.
>
> Gilles
>
> ----- Message d'origine -----
> De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> :
> Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 22:18
> Objet : AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings
>
>
>
> >
> > ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> > >
> > >Hi Bob and all,
> > >
> > >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus
> with
> > >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914).
> > >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary
> > >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage.
> > >
> > >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I
> mean
> > >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc...
> >
> >
> > See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> > | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> > |-------------------------------------------------------|
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____
> From: "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
> Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable
> modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on!
> P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have
time
> to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read
> them!
>
> William Slaughter
> RV-8 N492WS in progress
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little
> >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the
> >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and
instruments
> >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the
"stuff"
> >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has
a
> >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to
> >any builder.
> >
> >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the
> >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post
> >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us
just
> >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight.
>
> I thought the website description was fairly complete
> but okay . . .
>
> I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that
> got hosed when I split the website between two different servers
> and didn't account for it when the CD got cut.
>
> First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything
> you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your
> screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This
> includes all of the articles and product descriptions.
>
> There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can
> easily search for specific words in your word processor or
> text editor.
>
> There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and
> a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be
> modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words,
> about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are
> symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need
> to add.
>
> AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included.
>
> There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit
> and print my drawings.
>
> The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended
> only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're
> free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the
> only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to
> the CD when you copy it.
>
> When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file
> copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high
> speed connections can download it directly.
>
> If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
> on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
> full . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
____
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode
>
>
> >
> >Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat
> >shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor.
>
> Doesn't have to but it doesn't hurt either. See
> http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
> for how we attach a 1N5400 series diode to the
> continuous duty contactor. Our starter contactors
> are supplied with a built in diode. If you're
> particular contactor doesn't have the diode built
> in, you'll need to add one externally between
> the "S" terminal (cathod-banded end of diode)
> and the contactor's mounting base (anode end)
> of diode.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
____
> From: CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
>
>
> I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
> download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy &
> never loose it . Chris
>
>
____
> From: "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
>
>
> I would as well!!!
>
> Britt Jensen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
>
>
> >
> >
> > I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
> > download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy
&
> > never loose it . Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Subject: | RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
>> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power
distribution system fault management. <<
Bob,
Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using
polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
George,
Take a look at this thread. It sums up Bob's position on Poloyfusses pretty
well.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyf
use?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
>
>
> >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power
> distribution system fault management. <<
>
> Bob,
>
> Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using
> polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management?
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Subject: | RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
George,
Take a look at this thread. It sums up Bob's position on Poloyfusses pretty
well.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyf
use?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
>
>
> >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power
> distribution system fault management. <<
>
> Bob,
>
> Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using
> polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management?
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | richard(at)riley.net |
Subject: | RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
>
>Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
Cut and paste the two lines of the URL together
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
In a message dated 9/28/02 7:56:24 PM Central Daylight Time, gwbraly(at)gami.com
writes:
> Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
Good Evening George,
That's funny, I tried it and it worked fine. It is a very long address. Over
two full lines, but it worked for me and, as you know, I am a complete
computer illiterate!
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfus
e?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
George Braly wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
Try this. These long URL's can be a pain... hope I got this one right.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfuse?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Subject: | RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
Ah... missed the second line. Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: richard(at)riley.net [mailto:richard(at)riley.net]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
>
>Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
Cut and paste the two lines of the URL together
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
Bob,
I am interested in one of the completed modules. Is the indication of low voltage
a flashing or steady light? What is meant by "aux battery management"?
Dave Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Promotion of Bobs CD |
>
>
>Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable
>modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on!
I got a latest copy of WinZip and tried to create a single file
of the CD structure . . . it put all the files into a single
.zip file and threw away the directory tree. My old dos based
PK zip would preserve directory structures. Maybe the purchased
version of WinZip will have this capability to. Need to look
over the PkZip products as well. I'll get 'er whipped (hopefully
pretty soon).
>P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have time
>to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read
>them!
Could do it if it weren't both fun and useful.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
> If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
> on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
> full . . .
How about the archive of this mail list?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
>
>I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring and
>I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after
>reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all
>the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I
>stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or
>fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around.
>What a great system. Love that master toggle too.
>
>You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a
>million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it
>without your help.)
I'm very pleased that you find this activity useful.
Spent yesterday at the tandem wing fly-in on the Burlington
KS airport. These guys have no factory support. I've never met
a more inquisitive and ambitious bunch of builders. They're
looking at all kinds of engine options, electrical system
options and whatever they decide to do, there are few if
any suppliers of bolt-on-and-fly hardware.
Got to look over a Jabiru engine installed in a Quickie.
The American aircraft engine manufacturer's ought to keep
scale models of this engine on everybody's desk to remind
them what an aircraft engine CAN be . . .
See http://www.jabiru.co.za/engines_pictures.htm
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/3300.html
The installation was so much smaller and lighter than
contemporary engines in the Quickies that the installer
had to move a shorter engine forward under a new cowl
to get the CG back in the right place. The end result
being enough engine to firewall clearance to make this
space attractive as a forward baggage compartment.
No castings. EVERYTHING appears to be NC machined
from solid hunks of metal. Not only a work of art
but a stout and practical alternative to the 1940's
technology that heads up the vast majority of US
certified aircraft.
Yet another example of what can happen when you
figure out a way to do it without government's
assistance and oversight.
Bob . . .
>Gary K.
>Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru
>Newport, R.I.
>
>
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com> |
Bob-
Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly-
It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of
questions about how my loads should be distributed on the
main/essential/battery busses.
Alex Balic
Dallas, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! |
>
>
> I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
>download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy &
>never loose it . Chris
I just did a major clean up of the CD to fix some html
linking problems that I injected into earlier versions
when I split the website between two servers.
V7.0 is current and if you order one now at
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
you'll have the latest and greatest.
I'll keep working the .zip issue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | re: Resistor Orientation |
>
>The reason resistor winds up at Radio Shack is someone put the color code
>on the wrong end anyway.
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
that used to be a common situation years ago. Radio Shack and dozens
of other retail suppliers used to gather up factory seconds and production
line clean-ups in order to offer serviceable but sometimes less-than-
pristine parts. This has become a rare condition 'cause new parts are
so inexpensive that it doesn't pay to handle over-runs or seconds
a second or third time to get them into distribution.
While Radio Shack parts trend toward the bottom end of the new parts
spectrum, I find that by-in-large, they are good value for the money
and convenience of being able to put your hands on them at 8 o'clock
in evening or on Sunday afternoon a few blocks from your house.
Lot's of Radio Shack purchases are flying around in RAC flight test
aircraft! You do need to apply some judgement when selecting parts
at the Shack or similar outlets but I think it's both unfair and
inaccurate to suggest that we avoid patronizing these sources
in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Magnetic shielding via MU-metal. |
>
>I also mounted my compass in the panel on an RV6A - it was substantially
>affected by the electric turn coordinator . To get out of this I wrapped the
>turn coordinator with Mu (Greek-sounds like mew) Metal which you can get
>from Aircraft Spruce or one of the compass manufacturers . This eliminated
>the major problem - there is still some minor problem from the dimmer
>rheostat which is also close to it. If you can, keep it away from the
>electric gyros and any electrical device which is liable to generate a
>magnetic field
Mu-metal is the optimal material for magnetic shielding but
it's expensive, rare and not the easiest stuff to work with.
Try gutter flashing metal available from lumber yards and
big-box stores. Cut a strip width equal to the depth of the
instrument and long enough to go around the instrument three
times. Coil a cylinder of the strip held loosely with long
tye wraps. Slide over the instrument and snug the tye-wraps
down. I've used this technique perhaps a dozen times in 30
years with a high probability of successful interference
mitigation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
>
>
> >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power
>distribution system fault management. <<
>
>Bob,
>
>Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using
>polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management?
http://216.55.140.222/articles/expbusad.html
http://216.55.140.222/articles/expbuthe.html
Here are a couple of pieces I assembled several years
ago that include a short dialog with the supplier of
the EXP-Bus wherein polyfuses were touted as a
major feature favoring use of the product.
Aside from Jay's lack of justification for the
savings of time, weight or anything else, he wouldn't
offer a compelling reason for adding mechanical complexity
and committing to a single source, not easily
repaired product as replacement for stone-simple,
multiple-source, much less expensive and equal-
or-better performing alternatives.
The consensus I've gathered over more than
20 years of considering (and using polyfuses)
is that they have excellent applicability for
adding useful levels of protection inside a product
that already has an etched circuit board upon which
the device can be mounted.
There have been no cases I'm aware of where anyone
found it attractive to fabricate an etched circuit
board based assembly for the sole advantage of
replacing and array of fuses or breakers with
solid state devices.
The self-resetting feature was touted as an
"advantage" while it's easy to see where this
could be a trouble shooting nightmare for our
service technicians in the field.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
>
>Bob,
>
>I am interested in one of the completed modules. Is the indication of low
>voltage a flashing or steady light? What is meant by "aux battery management"?
>
>Dave Ford
My post of 9-23
>
>In a message dated 9/18/2002 11:35:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > If the bus is above 13.0 volts, and the switch is in AUTO position,
> > it closes the aux battery contactor. If below 13.0 volts, it opens the
> > aux battery contactor (and flashes a low volts warning light).
>
>Bob, been trying to figure out when I would want to use this feature. It
>looks to me that it would provide automatic shutdown of the main buss. While
>this may seem like a desireable feature, I could also see where an
>uncontrolled shutdown of main buss features would certainly startle a pilot
>if causing no other undesirable consequences. Seems to me that a pilot
>controlled shutdown of main buss functions would be less exciting.
>Also, in my planned configuration (diode fed e-buss from main buss, switched
>alternate path from battery buss), I would need to make sure the e-buss was
>always hot rather than switched to assure that such an automatic shutdown
>would not also interrupt essential e-buss operations.
>
>Is my take on this correct?
No. The AUX battery management module is for the management of
the AUX battery only while at the same time, notifying you of
the failure of the main alternator by flashing the low volts
warning light. Assuming you have two batteries because
your engine is electrically dependent, this feature has the
task of immediately separating two halves of engine loads onto
separate batteries.
>What would be the best way to use this feature, and can the auto-shutdown
>startle factor be reduced?
>
>Doug Windhorn
At some convenient time after the low volts light begins
to flash, you would close the e-bus alternate feed switch and
move the main DC power master from BAT+ALT to OFF. This last
action would shut down the main distribution bus. You might also
choose to shut off half of engine loads on the main battery
bus . . . they can always be turned on as needed should you
experience the insult of double failure for any given flight.
When the airport is in sight and comfortable arrival is assured,
you can bring the main DC power master back to BAT position to
use the rest of the main battery as needed for approach to
landing loads . . . by this time it doesn't matter if the main
battery happens to be too far gone to help.
If push comes to shove, both main DC master and aux battery
masters can be placed in BAT and ON positions to close both
contactors and use the sum total of all energy left in order
to power anything in the airplane just as you would for normal
flight ops except that the alternator is still dead and you're
now powering up two contactors.
Should this action ever become necessary, it probably means that
the batteries were either improperly maintained or undersized
for the task.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Subject: | re: Resistor Orientation |
Bob,
>>in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore.<<
Ah... that is a great line. Can I borrow it and change it?
"... in deference to over-fertilized aviation folk-lore.<<
Regards, George
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Subject: | Re: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
>>The consensus I've gathered over more than
20 years of considering (and using polyfuses)
is that they have excellent applicability for
adding useful levels of protection inside a product
that already has an etched circuit board upon which
the device can be mounted.<<
Ok... no surprises or alligators there. Thanks.
Like everything else... a right time and place.
Regards, George
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Promotion of Bobs CD |
>
> > If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included
> > on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th
> > full . . .
>How about the archive of this mail list?
>John Slade
I've considered this . . . problem is that to do a really
good job takes a lot of editing to keep the cited material
direct and to the point with minimum effort on part of reader
to access the information.
I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on
common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the
articles section of my website.
Good suggestion . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Resistor Orientation |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> >>in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore.<<
>
>
> Ah... that is a great line. Can I borrow it and change it?
>
> "... in deference to over-fertilized aviation folk-lore.<<
Ahh ... if the phenomenon were limited only to aviation ... the
world would be a better place!
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees |
Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting
controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable
voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus.
I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and
posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf
You may also find the installation instructions for our
pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | RE: Promotion of Bobs CD |
> >How about the archive of this mail list?
> I've considered this . . . problem is that to do a really
> good job takes a lot of editing to keep the cited material
> direct and to the point with minimum effort on part of reader
> to access the information.
How about including ONLY you're own posts. You're posts are usually direct
and to the point.
This might seem to some to be a little egotistical on your part, but I'm in
this mail list mainly for you're input. It would be nice if you could edit
and clean up the text, but I'd rather have it all than none of it. PC based
search engines can do the rest.
> I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on
> common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the
> articles section of my website.
Useful, but I'd also like to have the archives on the CD. I missed a few
years.
I'd buy the CD for this feature alone.
Regards,
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Subject: | RE: Promotion of Bobs CD |
What's the advantage over using the existing archives and tools on-line?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of John Slade
> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
> > I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on
> > common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the
> > articles section of my website.
> Useful, but I'd also like to have the archives on the CD. I
> missed a few years. I'd buy the CD for this feature alone.
>
> Regards,
> John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: VOR indicator problem |
I have a question which you may be able to help. I built my RV6 3 years ago
and I have a Terra Nav with electronic CDI with the digital OBS
display/selector.
The usual problem is that the selected course track(3 digits)tend to count
down in the early stage of the flight, so I have to repeatedly reset the
course numbers to fly the correct interception to center the needle. Once
the plane settles in flight (up to 1/2 hr or so) the digits select behave
itself again for the whole flight and no longer counts down.
It has been suggested that it could be noise interference that is causing
this problem. I have tested this without the engine running, and yes the
problem doesn't arise.
Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem?
I have thought of shielding the power input and earth wires to the
indicator but think better to bounce this idea from you first.
Maybe you can suggest one of your many products to help solve this.
Albert, you need to make sure that the noise
is coming in through the power leads. I'll suggest
that you run the radio and its indicator from a
12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away.
I usually use a pair of 6v sportsman's lantern batteries
in series for a test power source.
If the problem goes away, try running just the radio
or just the indicator from the dry battery and see if
it's still okay. It may be that only one of the
gizmos is vulnerable to noise.
Also, try turning your alternator OFF while the
engine is running to see if the problem goes away.
This will help us decide if it's alternator noise
or ignition noise.
Are you using magnetos? Do you have the p-lead
shielded. Have you grounded the p-lead shields ONLY
at the engine end?
Suggest you join us on the AeroElectric-List which
you can subscribe to at:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
This will set you up to listen in and join
the conversation (if you wish) on a variety
of electrical systems topics and ask your
own questions as well! These kinds of
problems are best worked where lots of folk
can benefit from the investigation, analysis
and solution.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
| People are far more willing to pay |
| for being amused than for anything else. |
| -Thomas Edison- |
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
Subject: | Bob's CD TOO !!!!! |
Hello Robert,
Sunday, September 29, 2002, 8:09:51 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to
>>download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy &
>>never loose it . Chris
RLNI> I just did a major clean up of the CD to fix some html
RLNI> linking problems that I injected into earlier versions
RLNI> when I split the website between two servers.
RLNI> V7.0 is current and if you order one now at
RLNI> http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
RLNI> you'll have the latest and greatest.
RLNI> I'll keep working the .zip issue.
RLNI> Bob . . .
Bob,
A couple of software suggestions for you if you haven't already made a
choice. Check-out WinRar (http://www.rarlab.com/). It is a
combination program that works with zip, tar, rar, and other
compression programs. Works real well and compresses more than most.
However, for keeping and delivering a CD ROM on the Internet, you can
use the iso format. Your cd burning software should permit you to
save the entire contents of the cd into a single iso file. Then, on
the other end, us users can do the reverse. The iso file is also
condensed and expands directly into cd format.
The best cd burning software I've seen is Ahead Software's Nero
Burning ROM (http://www.nero.com/en/index.html#root).
Hope that these recommendations are helpful.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | RE: Resistor Orientation |
Resistor orientation and Radio Shack --Hey, it was just humor....But I was teaching
a class recently and demonstrated the orientation of LEDs. A student interrupted
and told me his LEDs (that he had just bought from Radio Shack) only
worked backwards.
On the subject of what to put on Bob's CD Rom-- Perhaps some tools like an easy-to-use
CAD program, or the ExpressPCB or Eagle circuit design or the free Orcad
program (or both). Readers please suggest.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Resistor Orientation |
>
>Resistor orientation and Radio Shack --Hey, it was just humor....But I was
>teaching a class recently and demonstrated the orientation of LEDs. A
>student interrupted and told me his LEDs (that he had just bought from
>Radio Shack) only worked backwards.
Forgive me, I didn't pick up on it. Maybe I need to get more sleep!
>On the subject of what to put on Bob's CD Rom-- Perhaps some tools like an
>easy-to-use CAD program, or the ExpressPCB or Eagle circuit design or the
>free Orcad program (or both). Readers please suggest.
The CD already has shareware copies of IntelliCAD and TurboCAD. There's
also a copy of AutoCADLT version 1.0 . . . the very first and now
rather old version of ACAD that would run under windows. Interestingly
enough, I find that 99% of everything I need to do with AutoCAD can
be accomplished with versions going as far back as DOS release 10!
If one used the AutoCAD LT for anything more than managing your
wirebook (once you get proficient, you'll find that there are
lots of drawing things you can do with it) then I'd recommend that
you take an engineering student to lunch and then get him/her
to buy you a copy of AcadLT2000 or whatever is being offered
at the bookstore. It's generally available for under $200
and is VERY powerful.
I will put ExpressPCB on it at the next upgrade. Are there
other, similar etched circuit board programs out there?
I am only familiar with ExpressPCB.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
to put it into your broswer . . .
This will take you to a directory of this name
wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
I tested the download and was able to bring
down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
like to know how it works for others.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Latimer" <jlatimer1(at)cox.net> |
Worked great for me.
Jerry Latimer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD
Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
to put it into your broswer . . .
This will take you to a directory of this name
wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
I tested the download and was able to bring
down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
like to know how it works for others.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... |
From: | "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com> |
If you're sending a long URL to the list, you can help the cut-and-paste-challenged by going to http://tinyurl.com/ first. Paste your long link in, and you'll get a nice short one. The link below was rendered as http://tinyurl.com/1pm3. It is probably best to also include the long link in the mail, for the archives, but the short ones are definitely handy.
Alternately, if you use Outlook to read your email, here is an add-in that automagically grabs multi-line URLs, cleans them up, and runs the browser. http://www.cheztabor.com/UrlRunAddIn/
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick [mailto:rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
George Braly wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread...
Try this. These long URL's can be a pain... hope I got this one right.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfuse?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
Bob:
I am at work where we have a T3 to the 'net, and I experienced a similar
rate, about 230-250 kbps...So it was in the 6 min range for me
Regards,
Britt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD
>
> Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
> to put it into your broswer . . .
>
> This will take you to a directory of this name
> wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
>
> http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
>
> I tested the download and was able to bring
> down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
> like to know how it works for others.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
I must have a sloooow cable modem in Tampa. It took 20 minutes to download.
I was averaging 85Kbps.
Bob Kuc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD
>
> Took 9 approx. min on a cable modem while I did other stuff.
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD
>
>
>
> >
> > Me too. About 10 minutes via DSL in NC. Thanks.
> >
> > -
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
>
>
>http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
>
>I tested the download and was able to bring
>down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
>like to know how it works for others.
>
Me too, just about, at approx 113 Kbps average with Roadrunner.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD - Mac notes |
>
>
>Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
>to put it into your broswer . . .
>
>This will take you to a directory of this name
>wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
>
>http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
>
>I tested the download and was able to bring
>down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
>like to know how it works for others.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob,
I got about 85 kb/s on my cable modem, which is a bit slower than
usual, but still a lot faster (and cheaper) than getting it through
the mail. Everything seemed to work OK, but there is one strange
thing I haven't figured out yet - the "Click Here - How to Use This
CD" file wouldn't work with the Mac OS X version of Microsoft
Internet Explorer (ver 5.2.2). I tried a whole bunch of other Mac
browsers, and they all worked fine. I finally got Internet Explorer
to open the file by adding a .html suffix to the end, which is very
un-Mac like. So, given that Internet Explorer is the default browser
with Macs now, you might want to post a note on the page where you
download this file, just to reduce the number of questions you get.
Thanks for all the expertise you provide to the OBAM crowd. I found
the AEC invaluable when designing the electrical system for my RV-8.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (cowling, wing tip lights)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody
help me out?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
stanb(at)door.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: KA-134 pinout |
>
>I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody
>help me out?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stan Blanton
>stanb(at)door.net
Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com> |
Subject: | Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64?
While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the
need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack?
Thanks,
Britt Jensen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
Hello Robert,
Monday, September 30, 2002, 7:51:34 AM, you wrote:
RLNI> Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
RLNI> to put it into your broswer . . .
RLNI> This will take you to a directory of this name
RLNI> wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
RLNI> http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
RLNI> I tested the download and was able to bring
RLNI> down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
RLNI> like to know how it works for others.
RLNI> Bob . . .
RLNI> |-------------------------------------------------------|
RLNI> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
RLNI> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
RLNI> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
RLNI> |-------------------------------------------------------|
This may be getting old, but I did it in a little under 4 minutes at
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional |
value?
>
>
>Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64?
>
>While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the
>need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack?
Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KN64.pdf
With GPS why would you want DME . . especially since
DME and Transponders need to talk to each other to
keep from interfering with each other?
Isn't there something REALLY useful you could do
with that panel space?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Subject: | Re: KA-134 pinout |
Thanks for the diagram Bob.
Stan
> >
> >I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can
anybody
> >help me out?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Stan Blanton
> >stanb(at)door.net
>
>
> Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
In a message dated 9/30/02 9:07:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com writes:
> While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the
> need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack?
>
>
Good Evening Britt,
I would suggest that you eliminate the DME unless you will have an occasion
to fly the aircraft IFR in Europe.
Any IFR approved GPS installation can be used anywhere in the US National
Airspace System for any DME function. That includes the requirement for DME
capability above Flight Level 240 and for the localizer associated DMEs.
Check it out in the AIM under 1-1-21. Look specifically at paragraph 1-1-21,
5 and subsequent paragraphs. You might as well save the space, power and
weight as long as you have a GPS that is approved for at least enroute
operations.
The only rub is that to be legal to use the GPS in lieu of ADF and DME, the
datacard must be current. Pilot verification, as can be used for most
enroute uses, is not allowed for the "In Lieu Of" provision.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
Britt Jensen wrote:
>
> Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64?
>
> While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the
> need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack?
For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required.
That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count
as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
In a message dated 9/30/02 10:06:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
cozytom(at)mn.rr.com writes:
> That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count
> as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to.
>
>
It does. Check out 1-1-21, 5 in the AIM. It doesn't even have to be
approach approved. Enroute approved is adequate.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Downloadable CD - Mac notes |
>
>I got about 85 kb/s on my cable modem, which is a bit slower than
>usual, but still a lot faster (and cheaper) than getting it through
>the mail. Everything seemed to work OK, but there is one strange
>thing I haven't figured out yet - the "Click Here - How to Use This
>CD" file wouldn't work with the Mac OS X version of Microsoft
>Internet Explorer (ver 5.2.2). I tried a whole bunch of other Mac
>browsers, and they all worked fine. I finally got Internet Explorer
>to open the file by adding a .html suffix to the end, which is very
>un-Mac like. So, given that Internet Explorer is the default browser
>with Macs now, you might want to post a note on the page where you
>download this file, just to reduce the number of questions you get.
I'm mystified by this. When I started doing my own .html
coding on a WIN3.11 over Dos machine, I had to use three
character extensions (.htm) on the PC and remember to convert
them to .html after I uploaded them to the website.
Having graduated to later versions of Windows that handle
larger extensions, all of the browser files already have
.html extensions. I'm wondering how it got shortened
such that you had to patch it.
>Thanks for all the expertise you provide to the OBAM crowd. I found
>the AEC invaluable when designing the electrical system for my RV-8.
You're most welcome. I'm pleased to be of assistance.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)iprimus.com.au> |
Can someone please enlighten me on the correct method to ground the p leads
of the mags. Do you ground both ends, switch and engine ends, or just the
engine/mag body end?
I am having noise problem at my VOR indicator .
Thanks
Albert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
It works also over the Atlantic, just a bit slower, but might depend on the
peering of your provider.
Did use 20 Minutes to have it here in Switzerland with stable 86.7KByte/s or
a line speed of aprox 700Kbits/s (our Internet Connection is 6MB).
Now I'm just wondering where to send the 10 Bucks to as I think Bob deserves
it for the devoted work he does!
Kind regards
Werner (Glaster #5794 designing panel)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Re: KA-134 pinout |
I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm using
Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints?
Bob
RV8 - working on wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: KA-134 pinout
>
>I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody
>help me out?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stan Blanton
>stanb(at)door.net
Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: KA-134 pinout |
>
> I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm using
>Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints?
Do you have Adobe Acrobat installed? This is a .pdf
file that opens with Acrobat. You might try
using this link:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp
This takes your browser to the directory on the
server where all the downloadable files are
stored. Right-Click on the KA134.pdf and then
tell your browser where you want it stored on
your hard drive. After it's been brought down,
use Acrobat to open it directly from your
hard drive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Magneto P leads |
>
>
>Can someone please enlighten me on the correct method to ground the p leads
>of the mags. Do you ground both ends, switch and engine ends, or just the
>engine/mag body end?
>I am having noise problem at my VOR indicator .
>Thanks
>Albert
You can download appendix Z from our book at
http://216.55.140.222/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
In every case where magneto p-lead wiring is
depicted, you will see that the shielded
wire is grounded to engine only. The shield
is use to PROVIDE a ground for the magneto
switch be it toggle or key-type switch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD |
>
>
>It works also over the Atlantic, just a bit slower, but might depend on the
>peering of your provider.
>
>Did use 20 Minutes to have it here in Switzerland with stable 86.7KByte/s or
>a line speed of aprox 700Kbits/s (our Internet Connection is 6MB).
>
>Now I'm just wondering where to send the 10 Bucks to as I think Bob deserves
>it for the devoted work he does!
Not a problem . . . but it occurs to me that I may need
to move the CD to another system. Given that it's 100MB
in size and scheduled to grow, each download is 0.1GB
of traffic on the new server. EACH CD access about doubles
the daily traffic to the server which we are billed at
a $5/GB/Month rate. So each download adds about $.50 to
my bill. Not a big deal yet I think. I've been working
with a friend of mine in California to build and operate
our own server which is now fully operational as of last
night. We shared the cost of the hardware (less than
$1000) and co-location costs of $35/month. The only
additional costs are the traffic fees which will have to
be pretty severe before the cost of operating this
server begins to approach the cost of hosting fees
I've paid in the past.
If the CD download traffic becomes real popular, I might
move it to a server I have running here in my house
on the cable system. It would be a lot slower but
still about 50x faster than modem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
>
> For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required.
>
> That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count
> as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to.
>
*** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing
the DME may not
be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially
different from GPS distances. So you need the DME.
- Jerry Kaidor (
jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Re: KA-134 pinout |
Worked much better. Thanks!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: KA-134 pinout
>
> I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm
using
>Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints?
Do you have Adobe Acrobat installed? This is a .pdf
file that opens with Acrobat. You might try
using this link:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp
This takes your browser to the directory on the
server where all the downloadable files are
stored. Right-Click on the KA134.pdf and then
tell your browser where you want it stored on
your hard drive. After it's been brought down,
use Acrobat to open it directly from your
hard drive.
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
In a message dated 10/1/02 9:04:57 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry(at)tr2.com
writes:
> >
> *** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing
> the DME may not
> be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially
> different from GPS distances. So you need the DME.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor (
>
Good Morning Jerry,
We all know that it almost impossible for any one instructor to be up to date
on all aspects of aviation, but your instructor is way off on this one.
If you have not seen my earlier posts on this one, check the AIM at 1-1-21,
para 5 and subsequent.
It is possible that your instructor was telling you that DME distances are
from a DME transceiver and not from the Airport Reference Point.
That is a true statement.
If you call up the GPS distance to an airport, it will give you the distance
to the ARP.
If an approach shows a DME distance as part of the approach, it will always
tell you what transceiver is being used as a basis for that distance.
In order to properly use the "GPS in Lieu Of DME" provision, you must take
the GPS distance from the DME transceiver location. That is most often at a
VOR or VORTAC site.
On those occasions when the DME distance is from a transceiver associated
with a localizer, there are a couple of ways to get the information. It can
be done directly from the database or by a computation based on locating a
waypoint along the course that meets certain requirements as spelled out in
the AIM.
On Garmin or King equipment, the location of the DME transceiver is listed in
the database as an intersection. It uses the same identifier as does the DME
and Localizer.
That is: At Rockford, Illinois, Rwy 1 approach, the identifier for the
localizer and DME is IRFD. If you call from the database an intersection
named IRFD, you will be getting the distance from the localizer associated
DME site.
The UPSAT units have a separate page for that same information.
There is another method spelled out in the AIM for those of us that don't
have Garmin, King or UPSAT units. It takes some digging to find it, but it
is there. If you have trouble finding it, contact me directly.
There are no uses of the DME in the United States National Airspace System
for which an IFR approved GPS cannot be substituted.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>
>Bob-
>Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly-
>It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of
>questions about how my loads should be distributed on the
>main/essential/battery busses.
>
>Alex Balic
>Dallas, Texas
I looked through the various mail boxes and didn't find it.
Sorry. Try re-mailling the question . . . better yet, how
about posing it as a question on the AeroElectric-List?
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? |
Enroute/terminal or approach GPS is allowed to legally substitute for DME -
when the GPS contains the appropriate fixes co-located with the localizer
DME. Most GPS's now have these new fixes in their latest database updates.
They can also be used for DME arcs off of VOR's as well. There is a
difference however in that the GPS gives accurate distance across the ground
and does not suffer from the slant range error of DME's. My observation is
that DME's aren't always reliable, not nearly as good as GPS.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
>
> >
> > For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required.
> >
> > That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count
> > as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to.
> >
> *** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing
> the DME may not
> be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially
> different from GPS distances. So you need the DME.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor (
> jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com> |
I can post it, but it does pertain directly to you, so, I am including it
here, I am still new to the AeroElectric list, and I don't have the E-mail
address in my book yet. I have been reading the posts though.......
Alex
Hi Bob!
I just wanted to thank you for the great seminar this past weekend, I
definitely learned a lot about my systems, and am going to take your advice
and go with the fuse blocks. I do have some questions that have come up, and
need some clarification as well-
1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system
in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the
device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that
correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150
amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would
figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large? they say that
they are good for a lot more than their rated capacity (then why not rate
them that way?). So then the alt field current is never tripped out to shut
off the alternator, just the power coming out of it is prevented from making
it to the bus?
2)So, OK, no breakers then, and 3 busses-
a battery (always on) bus for things like map light, clock power,
radio
memory ect...
an essential bus that will stay on (with a contactor?)in the event
of alt
failure to keep the essentials going.
a main buss for everything else
Thing is, with my overly outfitted panel, I have a lot of circuits- if it is
all right , I will list them for you and get your opinion on what bus they
should be on.......
BATTERY BUS:
cabin light
map light
12v jack
radio memory
stereo memory
transponder (clock function from the Garmin unit)
ESSENTIAL BUS
EFIS One (yea- I already sent my deposit- I'll keep my fingers crossed)
might not need this one on the essential bus, but it doesn't use too much
power)
Transponder power
Strobes
Panel lights
alternator field
engine gauges ( I'm using electronics international electronic units)
Engine control module (doesn't get more essential than that one)
Fuel pump
Aux fuel pump
Pitot Heat
GPS COM
AND THE REST
WX500 sensor
JP fuel scan
elev. trim
Ail. trim
elev. AP servo
Ail. AP servo
Dynon EFIS (has it's own battery backup built in)
Gear Pump
AUX radiator cooling fans
CD/DVD player
Nav lights
taxi light
landing light
CDI head
NAV Com/ localizer RX
Audio panel/marker RX
Good thing I have 95 amps available I suppose..........
OH, and could you give me the info on those fancy French contactors- might
just spend the $$ if the power looks like it will be close......
Thanks Bob, and I am really looking foreword to using those REALLY nice
crimpers that you gave me- I need to order some of those fancy sleeves
though- from Digi Key I'm sure.....
You have an absolutely great seminar, that should be required attendance for
every homebuilder with an electrical system!
Sincerely,
Alex Balic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lost E-mail
>
>
>
>Bob-
>Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly-
>It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of
>questions about how my loads should be distributed on the
>main/essential/battery busses.
>
>Alex Balic
>Dallas, Texas
I looked through the various mail boxes and didn't find it.
Sorry. Try re-mailling the question . . . better yet, how
about posing it as a question on the AeroElectric-List?
Bob. . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Question |
Bob,
In my starterless, B&C dynamo'ed, day VFR only VariEze, it seems
like the standard battery contactor is overkill. They are designed
to handle a lot of continuous amps and burn a fair amount of power
in the windings. I am considering substituting another relay to do
the job. Maybe a power window relay from an early 70's Ford pickup?
I think its rated at something like 60A max - I am trying to find
its continuous duty rating. The napa-echlin part number echar200.
Can you suggest another part number that would be a better choice?
Or maybe a rationale for using the standard contactor?
It doesn't even need to be that big. The little
1" cube SPDT relays rated at 20A or better would
be fine. See our S704-1 at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s704-1
Lots of folks stock relays of this genre'
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| There is a great difference between knowing and |
| understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
| not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | marc cote <marcjcote(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | drawings for genave beta/5000 transponder |
good day,
I am looking for the drawings or info for the Genave Beta/5000 transponder.I have
to identify and replace a burnt component (resistor) also want to test the
unit after that.
thank-you
Marc
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
Subject: | GPS pilot verification |
In a message dated 10/01/2002 2:53:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
<<.....skip....... Pilot verification, as can be used for most enroute uses,
is not allowed for the "In Lieu Of" provision. Happy Skies, Old Bob >>
10/01/2002
Hello Old Bob, Would you please write a few words in amplification of the
above and also the subject of noncurrrent GPS data cards. Some specific
references would be helpful. Many thanks.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM WING |
FLY-IN attendees)
Bob;
The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per
your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the
"LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source
item in the parts list.
I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you
know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current
suppliers.
Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is
there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc.
?
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees
>
> Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting
> controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable
> voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus.
>
> I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and
> posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf
>
> You may also find the installation instructions for our
> pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from
>
> http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lighting Controller |
>
>Bob;
>
>The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per
>your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the
>"LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source
>item in the parts list.
Digikey has been a good source for years. See the following
links for all three parts ranging from 1.5 to 5.0 amps of
control capability. Of course, built as shown, ANY size integrated
circuit will be heat-sink limited to about 1A.
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83012&Row=240348
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83558&Row=168503
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83755&Row=169065
>I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you
>know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current
>suppliers.
These folks also handle the integrated circuit as well as other
items used in the design . . . they may even be less expensive
than Digikey. . .
http://www.alliedelec.com
>Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is
>there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc.
Did I have any copyright tags? Ignore them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: drawings for genave beta/5000 transponder |
>
>
>good day,
>
>I am looking for the drawings or info for the Genave Beta/5000
>transponder.I have to identify and replace a burnt component (resistor)
>also want to test the unit after that.
>
>thank-you
Good luck my friend. This is a real dinosaur in addition
to the fact that the company was famous for lack of robustness
in their designs. I looked for Genave data in the library
of a couple of local shops about 5 years ago. They'd all
pitched their data and no long offered to work on them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: GPS pilot verification |
In a message dated 10/1/02 12:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
BAKEROCB(at)aol.com writes:
> Hello Old Bob, Would you please write a few words in amplification of the
> above and also the subject of noncurrrent GPS data cards. Some specific
> references would be helpful. Many thanks.
>
Good Afternoon OC,
What can and cannot be done with an expired datacard is fully dependent on
the language written in the individual airplane Flight Manual Supplement
which is part of the approval.
The guidance given the manufacturers by the FAA via AC-20-138, Appendix 2,
Section 1, Paragraphs 3 and 4 contains suggested language as follows:
3. IFR en route and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
verifies the currency of the data base or verifies each selected waypoint for
accuracy by reference to current approved data.
4. Instrument approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved
instrument approach procedures that are retrieved from the GPS equipment data
base. The GPS equipment data base must incorporate the current update cycle.
Most of the manufacturers have used this, or similar, language in the
original installation Approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement which they
submitted to the FAA for approval.
All subsequent approvals are done via the FAA's local approval option via the
Follow-On GPS Equipment Installation procedure as listed in Appendixes 1 and
2.
UPSAT managed to get an approval in August of 1997 which contained language
for the approach condition similar to that found in the AC in reference to
the en route and terminal functions.
Not all of the local FSDO inspectors will accept that language in Flight
Manual Supplements which are submitted to them for approval.
I know of one case where an installer used the UPSAT language for a KLN 89B
installation and got it approved.
It can go both ways!
The generally accepted method of complying with the UPSAT currency
verification procedure for approach purposes is to inspect the dates on the
current charts against the date on the data card.
If the issue date on a Jepp chart, or the Julian date on a C&G chart is
before the expiration date of the data card, the card can legally be used for
an approach.
Remember, this provision is ONLY true if the individual aircraft flight
manual has language to allow such usage.
Any help?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM |
WING FLY-IN attendees)
I don't think they're that hard to find; but if they are, I've got
hundreds (maybe thousands!) in some old inventory, if anyone needs them.
TO-220 package, as I recall.
-John R
Jim Oke wrote:
>
> Bob;
>
> The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per
> your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the
> "LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source
> item in the parts list.
>
> I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you
> know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current
> suppliers.
>
> Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is
> there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc.
> ?
>
> Jim Oke
> Winnipeg, MB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting
>>controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable
>>voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus.
>>
>>I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and
>>posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf
>>
>>You may also find the installation instructions for our
>>pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from
>>
>>http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
>> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
>> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
>> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>>
>>
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Wing Wiring Questions |
Bob,
I'm getting ready to run the wires through the wings in my F1 Rocket
and I had a couple of questions that I hoped you would be willing to
answer. Here is the configuration. I have Sportcraft Antennas in my
wingtips along with strobes, position lights, landing lights, and a
heated pitot tube midpoint. My questions are:
1) Is it okay to run the coax in the tube with the other wires?
2) Should I run the stobe wires with the others (inside the tube) or
should I separate it and run it all by itself?
3) Is it necessary to run ground wires back to the fuselage (and
subsequently back to the ground block) or can I attach the ground wires
to the spar? Will I introduce a noise problem by doing so?
Thanks fo much.
Randy
htp://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lighting Controller |
><john@allied-computer.com>
>
>I don't think they're that hard to find; but if they are, I've got
>hundreds (maybe thousands!) in some old inventory, if anyone needs them.
>TO-220 package, as I recall.
The TO-220 plastic package is available for
all three part numbers but it's harder to
work with in terms of getting adequate
heatsinking.
The design I published shows the TO-3 metal
package which bolts together quite nicely
with the metal parts that make up the heatsink
and mounting bracket.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wing Wiring Questions |
>
>Bob,
>
>I'm getting ready to run the wires through the wings in my F1 Rocket
>and I had a couple of questions that I hoped you would be willing to
>answer. Here is the configuration. I have Sportcraft Antennas in my
>wingtips along with strobes, position lights, landing lights, and a
>heated pitot tube midpoint. My questions are:
>
>1) Is it okay to run the coax in the tube with the other wires?
You bet.
>2) Should I run the stobe wires with the others (inside the tube) or
>should I separate it and run it all by itself?
they can all run down the same tube.
>3) Is it necessary to run ground wires back to the fuselage (and
>subsequently back to the ground block) or can I attach the ground wires
>to the spar? Will I introduce a noise problem by doing so?
No, ground nav lights, pitot heat and landing lights locally
to structure. The strobe fixtures should wire only to the
shielded wires that come with the installation kit. I've
had some builders ADD a ground wire for the black wire and
shield at the fixture end of the strobe lamp feeder that
CAUSED problems.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Hi Bob!
I just wanted to thank you for the great seminar this past weekend, I
definitely learned a lot about my systems, and am going to take your advice
and go with the fuse blocks. I do have some questions that have come up, and
need some clarification as well-
I'm pleased that you found the experience useful.
1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system
in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the
device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that
correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150
amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would
figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large?
If you use a FUSE like the JJS/JJN series devices we used to sell,
then you need to oversize them to keep from nuisance tripping on the
output of an alternator. You can probably pick up a JJN-150 or
JJS-150 fuse from a local electrical contractor supply house.
Alternatively, the ANL-100 current limiter would also be suited.
We have holders for the ANL limiters and I think B&C either has
or would get a 100A device for you. Give them a call.
they say that
they are good for a lot more than their rated capacity (then why not rate
them that way?).
ANL devices are intended to be used in power distribution bus
structures where hard fault currents can be expected to be
10X the rating of the device.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
There are LOTS of different kinds of fuses with different
opening characteristics depending on the intended service.
I used JJN/JJS fast devices early on because of availability
and when B&C started using and stocking them for their
product line, it seemed a good idea not to stock two different
kinds of parts that could be used for similar tasks. Hence
the changeover as the article above will describe.
So then the alt field current is never tripped out to shut
off the alternator, just the power coming out of it is prevented from making
it to the bus?
Here's a copy of an earlier post on ov protection for alternators
with built in regulators
Hi, Bob. I know the answer to this must be in the Connection somewhere,
but I have been unable to find it. Regarding fig. Z-24, O/V protection
with an internally regualted alternator:
1. What is the need for the O/V contactor? Can't the Crowbar module just
cause the alternator field breaker to pop?
Alternators with built in regulators don't get field power
through the control wire going into the back . . . there
are failure modes INSIDE the alternator that cannot be controlled
from outside. Hence the need to physically disconnect the
alternator's b-lead from the rest of the airplane.
2. Why is there a fusible link between the buss bar and switch, with the
breaker after the switch? Why not just a 5 Amp breaker off the main buss?
Because if the main bus is a fuse block -AND- it's remotely mounted
for convenience of installation and maintenance then it's also
remote to the panel where the 5A breaker needs to go. This puts a
longer-than-6-inches hot wire between the fuse block and the
breaker that is best protected with a fusible link.
Sorry if these are questions you have answered lots of times. I would like
to keep the number of contactors to a minimum, and would also like to
understand the system.
To eliminate the extra contactor, go to an externally regulated
alternator.
-------------------- End of repost ------------------------------
2)So, OK, no breakers then, and 3 busses-
a battery (always on) bus for things like map light, clock
power, radio
memory ect...
an essential bus that will stay on (with a contactor?)in
the event of alt
failure to keep the essentials going.
a main buss for everything else
Thing is, with my overly outfitted panel, I have a lot of circuits- if it is
all right , I will list them for you and get your opinion on what bus they
should be on.......
BATTERY BUS:
cabin light
map light
12v jack
radio memory
stereo memory
transponder (clock function from the Garmin unit)
ESSENTIAL BUS
EFIS One (yea- I already sent my deposit- I'll keep my fingers crossed)
might not need this one on the essential bus, but it doesn't use too much
power)
Transponder power
Strobes
Panel lights
alternator field
- Alternator field is ALWAYS on the MAIN bus.
CDI head
NAV Com/ localizer RX
Audio panel/marker RX
engine gauges ( I'm using electronics international electronic units)
Why would shutting down the engine guages while en route
be a bad thing to do?
Engine control module (doesn't get more essential than that one)
This guy goes on the battery bus
Fuel pump
Battery bus
Aux fuel pump
Battery bus
Pitot Heat
Main bus
GPS COM
Everything below on the MAIN bus
AND THE REST
WX500 sensor
JP fuel scan
elev. trim
Ail. trim
elev. AP servo
Ail. AP servo
Dynon EFIS (has it's own battery backup built in)
Gear Pump
AUX radiator cooling fans
CD/DVD player
Nav lights
taxi light
landing light
Your e-bus should be able to get down below 3 amps for
the en-route battery only endurance mode. Once you
have the airport in sight, bring the main bus back
up to use all those other goodies if they're really
handy . . . but by then, your comfortable arrival
should NOT be an issue even if the battery goes
dead.
Good thing I have 95 amps available I suppose..........
Thats about 65 amps more than you'll ever need. The biggest
full-up IFR load I've ever seen on a homebuilt was 27 Amps.
OH, and could you give me the info on those fancy French contactors- might
just spend the $$ if the power looks like it will be close......
Dave S. Are you listening in? Who makes those low-holding
current contactors? I seem recall that AirTechnics handles them
here in town. . .
Thanks Bob, and I am really looking foreword to using those REALLY nice
crimpers that you gave me- I need to order some of those fancy sleeves
though- from Digi Key I'm sure.....
You have an absolutely great seminar, that should be required attendance for
every homebuilder with an electrical system!
Thank you!
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM |
> Jim Oke wrote:
> >
> > Bob;
> >
> > The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per
> > your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the
> > "LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source
> > item in the parts list.
*** Piece of cake. Very common chip. RadioShack P/N 276-1778, $1.99.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Annunciator Panel |
Bob,
Do you have a wiring diagram for an annunciator panel using LED's?
Something with a ptt button etc.? Which LED's will be visible in daylight,
but dimmable at night? Can you just use a simple pot for the dimmer switch?
Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)iprimus.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: Magneto P leads |
Bob
Thanks for your help on the noise problem in my VOR indicator, I,ll try to
solve this problem and advise later
Regards
Albert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 09/30/02 |
>
> Click on this link or use cut/n/paste
> to put it into your broswer . . .
>
> This will take you to a directory of this name
> wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip
>
> http://216.55.140.222/AEC70
>
> I tested the download and was able to bring
> down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd
> like to know how it works for others.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem,
too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now, burned onto my
own CD!
But I too think I'll add $10 to my next AeroElectric parts order to pay Bob
for it. It's just too much work to give away. But this way, it's here
tonight!
I know you say you love it, Bob, but your time's valuable, too! We couldn't
buy this kind of information anywhere else.
Thanks again, for all of us.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Subject: | dual low voltage indicator |
Bob,
Is there a circuit that will monitor dual independant busses and indicate low voltage
on each buss? I have B&C 40A and SD8. SD8 has of course its own regulator
& relay with optional steady light triggered by inactive relay to indicate
low voltage (not enough voltage to pull relay?) or aux. alt. off.
Don't yet have regulator for B&C alt. I know LR3B will indicate LV but I was
wondering if there is a circuit made or a schematic of one that maybe I could
put together to monitor 2 busses and give visual indication by flashing light
if one or the other gets to a certain level.
Dave Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: CD distribution |
>
>
>Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem,
>too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now, burned onto my
>own CD!
>
>But I too think I'll add $10 to my next AeroElectric parts order to pay Bob
>for it. It's just too much work to give away. But this way, it's here
>tonight!
>
>I know you say you love it, Bob, but your time's valuable, too! We couldn't
>buy this kind of information anywhere else.
Ron,
The BEST thing you could do is help distribute the CD. My best
advertising for the revenue side of our activities is the
endorsement of our products and services by happy customers.
I've spent $thousands$ on various advertisement activities
that to the best of my knowledge have yet to produce a single
phone call or e-mail . . . much less an order. Further, the
advertising dollars did nothing to advance the state of our
art and science.
If I'd spent that same amount money giving away CD's . . .
I could at least claim that the efforts help spread the
word as we understand it today. If enthusiastic users
give away the same CD's, it can only help encourage others
to take advantage of opportunities to raise their level
of understanding and we'll all benefit.
Bob . . .
|--------------------------------------------------------|
| "My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there." -C.F. Kettering- |
|--------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | B-lead fuse qustion follow-up. |
>1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system
>in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the
>device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that
>correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150
>amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would
>figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large?
>
> If you use a FUSE like the JJS/JJN series devices we used to sell,
> then you need to oversize them to keep from nuisance tripping on the
> output of an alternator. You can probably pick up a JJN-150 or
> JJS-150 fuse from a local electrical contractor supply house.
>
> Alternatively, the ANL-100 current limiter would also be suited.
> We have holders for the ANL limiters and I think B&C either has
> or would get a 100A device for you. Give them a call.
Just got a note from Todd at B&C. He says they stock the
ANL in an 80A rated device. Given the robust nature of
these critters, I think an 80A would be okay for your
95A alternator.
I found some ANL100 fuses on Amazon.com for $12.00
each at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y3RM/summitpost-20/103-6569411-3501455
Did a little more searching and found a smaller alternative
to the ANL series fuses. Dubbed the MEGA/SEA series you might
consider a fuse holder like this:
http://www.bluesea.com/catalog_.pdf/fuseblocks/pg_7.pdf
matching fuses are shown a bit further down the same page.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: dual low voltage indicator |
>
>Bob,
>
>Is there a circuit that will monitor dual independant busses and indicate
>low voltage on each buss? I have B&C 40A and SD8. SD8 has of course its
>own regulator & relay with optional steady light triggered by inactive
>relay to indicate low voltage (not enough voltage to pull relay?) or aux.
>alt. off.
> Don't yet have regulator for B&C alt. I know LR3B will indicate LV
> but I was wondering if there is a circuit made or a schematic of one that
> maybe I could put together to monitor 2 busses and give visual indication
> by flashing light if one or the other gets to a certain level.
Dave,
You could build two of these:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf
using this diagram
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
and one of these fixtures (or equal)
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator Panel |
>
>Bob,
>
>Do you have a wiring diagram for an annunciator panel using LED's?
An annunciator panel is pretty customized to the task. You need
some lamps to light up when they get a ground, others that light
up when hit with +14V. Still others may need both lead wires to
connect to the device that drives them.
>Something with a ptt button etc.?
If you use LEDs . . .press to test isn't very useful. It's
complex to implement and given the life of LEDs, not worth
the effort.
> Which LED's will be visible in daylight,
All the new bright LEDs are capable of sunlight viewability . . .
>but dimmable at night?
. . . all LEDs are dimmable.
> Can you just use a simple pot for the dimmer switch?
Yes . . . but since you need to control at least two
and sometimes more LED sources for dimming, most systems
just use a bright/dim switch.
>Any other suggestions?
It's not difficult to do but it can be tedious. You
first need to define what conditions are to be annunciated
and how the power and control is to be supplied to each
lamp.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: CD distribution |
> >Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem,
> >too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now,
> burned onto my own CD!
Beat ya - 5:43
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
I am after opinions on the new TPAS systems (cheap TCAS) what are people
using and prices?
Ian in Australia
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Bob,
Colud you post a copy of the pinout for a KX170B?
Thanks as always,
Stan Blanton
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: KX170B pinout |
>
>Bob,
>
>Colud you post a copy of the pinout for a KX170B?
>
>Thanks as always,
>
>Stan Blanton
Sure. Click on http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KX170.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 10/01/02 |
> Ron,
>
> The BEST thing you could do is help distribute the CD. My best
> advertising for the revenue side of our activities is the
> endorsement of our products and services by happy customers.
> I've spent $thousands$ on various advertisement activities
> that to the best of my knowledge have yet to produce a single
> phone call or e-mail . . . much less an order. Further, the
> advertising dollars did nothing to advance the state of our
> art and science.
>
> If I'd spent that same amount money giving away CD's . . .
> I could at least claim that the efforts help spread the
> word as we understand it today. If enthusiastic users
> give away the same CD's, it can only help encourage others
> to take advantage of opportunities to raise their level
> of understanding and we'll all benefit.
>
> Bob . . .
Well, I can sure do that. But I still think your time is enough for you to
be giving away to this extent.
I've recommended the book (and loaned my copy) to several folks who are now
owners of their own copies, and I will continue to do so. Same now with the
CD except I'll just burn some extras and give them away. But I'll make them
buy the book if I can!
As I have often said, "That's the least I can do ... and that's my goal!"
One typical comment upon ordering it was, "How can it be that good when he
only charges that much?" I said I couldn't explain it in light of today's
commercial culture, but there it is!
Few of us will ever be able to say we have helped so many people so much in
aviation (or anywhere else). That undoubtedly will be your reward.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Irene & Dan Goldman <ireneg(at)netvision.net.il> |
Subject: | Starter circuit voltage drop. |
In my motorglider the cranking power of the starter is very weak. I measured a
0.9 V drop between the battery terminal and the starter and 7 volts drop between
the starter terminals. I can choose which of the two batteries to use (no alternator)
through a small looking switch (on-on type). I suspect a large Voltage
drop there. What type/spec of switch to use? the stater is rated at 400 Watts.
I do not need to switch batteries ahile the startert is cranking.
Dan Goldman
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Diagram Z-14 questions |
Bob,
In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the Battery /
Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus must be
a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most people mounting their Battery
& Bus (in an RV).
In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6" requirement,
but the Aux Battery does. Why is this?
In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one alternator
goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason not to do that?
If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close?
Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any ramifications?
If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp glow?
I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. Is the
ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web site only has
ANL40 & ANL 60).
What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the difference
in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with diodes & the other
has a different setup of diodes. What is the functionality of this? Or are they
functionally the same?
Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair diagram does).
Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?)
In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps for all
annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in place of the
one drawn (or is it the same)?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
Jim -
Thanks for your list of questions on Z-14. I asked several of the same questions
and Bob mentioned that he is working with Lancair to finalize an electrical
system for the ES, based on Z-14. When he gets this finished, I suspect that Z-14
may change a bit and most
of the questions will be answered. We are going for Z-14 with a 60 amp and 20 amp
alternator on three IO-550N in a Lancair ES..
Bob said that the MOV is a device used in place of a diode that he has since decided
is not very effective. Thus, Z-14 has the best setup for the diodes.
As I understand the schematic, the crossfeed switch is only activated when you
go to the mid position of the starter/crossfeed switch. This puts both batteries
on line for starting. If you have an alternator failure, I believe that you
must move this switch to the
crossfeed position. I suppose that you could automatically make the crossfeed work,
but the solution seems to me to add quite a bit more complexity and possible
failure modes. I'd prefer your LED/warning system and then manually place
the switch to crossfeed if
necessary.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
Jim Pack wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires ...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD . . . |
>
>
>Well, I can sure do that. But I still think your time is enough for you to
>be giving away to this extent.
>
>I've recommended the book (and loaned my copy) to several folks who are now
>owners of their own copies, and I will continue to do so. Same now with the
>CD except I'll just burn some extras and give them away. But I'll make them
>buy the book if I can!
>
>As I have often said, "That's the least I can do ... and that's my goal!"
then you've "earned" the CD and then some . . .
>One typical comment upon ordering it was, "How can it be that good when he
>only charges that much?" I said I couldn't explain it in light of today's
>commercial culture, but there it is!
When the 'Connection is "finished" (meaning the full compliment of
chapters have been written) and we switch over to high quality
printing that will let me do photographs, the price of the book
will probably go up. In the mean time, you guys are helping me
write the thing. This is a joint venture between those who have
questions and those who have the task of finding answers.
>Few of us will ever be able to say we have helped so many people so much in
>aviation (or anywhere else). That undoubtedly will be your reward.
It's true that I've enjoyed an unique opportunity to blend
my experiences and pleasure of finding things out with
a business venture that benefits a lot of people.
Many folk in our country strive to have their names cast
in bronze placards affixed to construction projects financed
with other people's money. They add no value aside from having
taken unto themselves the power to steal from others. I much
prefer to look back 10 or 20 years hence and know that you
and I and a few thousand others worked together to add real
value to our collective existence at no expense to anyone else.
And further, all it really cost us was the time to sit down
and discuss those little details of physics that makes it
all work.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
>
>Bob,
>
>
>In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the
>Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the
>Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most
>people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV).
Battery busses should be right next to the battery as should their
respective contactors. This is why those leads are flagged as
having the shortest practical length.
>In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6"
>requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this?
My mistake . . .
>In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one
>alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason not
>to do that?
You will have plenty of warning about alternator
failure with low voltage warning lights. Depending
on where you are at in the flight, you may choose to
do nothing but shut down the failed alternator. It's
not necessary to close the cross-feed if you are minutes
away from a desirable landing.
>If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close?
Not the way it's wired now and leaving it manual gives you
no more switches to operate than if you had a single alternator
single battery system . . . with an essential bus alternate
feed switch.
>Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any
>ramifications?
I published that drawing in the temp director on the website
a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over
in the server switch.
Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall
downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file.
>If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp glow?
it's supposed to.
>I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. Is
>the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web site
>only has ANL40 & ANL 60).
Hmmmm . . . I thought B&C had 30's to go with the SD-20 alternator.
I thought that's what they were shipping with the STC'd kits.
>What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
Those turned out to be a not so hot idea. Use diodes
as described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
>Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the
>difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with
>diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the
>functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same?
The Lancair schematic is an old drawing and may still have
an error in the diode interconnection on the cross-feed contactor
that was corrected with Figure Z-14.
>Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair
>diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?)
PTT is used to actively test the ov trip system. The installation
instructions with the LR3 should speak to testing this perhaps
once a year or at every oil change but NOT by installation of
a switch for the purposes of testing each pre-flight.
I'd mount push buttons easy to access from the pilot's seat
but not necessarily on the panel. If your LR-3 is accessible
during routine maintenance, you can leave the buttons out
and just install a temporary jumper wire to do the periodic
but infrequent active tests.
>In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps
>for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in
>place of the one drawn (or is it the same)?
sure. LEDs need to have a series resistor added to set their
operating current.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf
Also see
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
for some alternative mounting suggestions for LEDs
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management |
Module
> Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week.
> I expect them to be on the order of $35.00
Any news on these, Bob? I'm ready to order and install one.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Downloadable CD . . . |
Amen Bob, you're good people & I wish I could buy ya dinner
sometime or something . It's hard to let this thread die when you're so
gracious & philanthropic ! I'm not worthy .......Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Starter circuit voltage drop. |
>
>
>In my motorglider the cranking power of the starter is very weak. I
>measured a 0.9 V drop between the battery terminal and the starter and 7
>volts drop between the starter terminals.
I presume the 0.9 was measured between battery (+) and the
starter motor (+) terminals while cranking and that the
7 V measurement was the applied voltage between starter (+)
and starter (-). This means that we have accounted for
7.9 volts out of a total of about 12.5 volts. Let's get
a measurement of the ground path as well from starter (-)
to battery (-) and round it out with a measurement at
the battery terminals.
USUALLY, a ground path has lower voltage drop than a
power path so this means that total wiring drop is
about 1.8 volts or less. Given that only 7.0 volts
is getting to the motor, I am inclined to predict
that your battery terminal voltage is going to be
8.8 volts while cranking . . . about 2 volts lower
than it should be.
What kind of battery are you using and how old is
it. Do you have a voltmeter in the system to KNOW that
the bus is running at a proper level to recharge the battery?
Let's get the voltage readings for the ground path
and battery and answers to questions above so we can
proceed further. . .
> I can choose which of the two batteries to use (no alternator) through a
> small looking switch (on-on type). I suspect a large Voltage drop there.
Oops, just got one of my questions answered, you don't have
an alternator. What kind of charger are you using and does it
regulate to somewhere between 13.8 and 14.5 volts?
Do you have a digital camera? Send me a picture of the
starter switch. If you SUSPECT a large voltage drop, go
measure it and find out for sure.
> What type/spec of switch to use? the stater is rated at 400 Watts. I do not
> need to switch batteries ahile the startert is cranking.
If your starter is a 400W machine, we don't know if
this is rated output (about .53 horsepower) or the
electrical input power rating which translates to
(400W/12V = 33A) about 33 amps input . . . this is
a VERY light starter draw so I'll guess that the
starter's 400W rating is really output. Given these
little critters are hard pressed to run at better than
50% efficient, this raises our current draw to about 66
amps . . . a much more believable figure.
If you need 66A for cranking, there are few practical
fingers operated switches designed for this task.
A contactor like our S701-1 . . .
(See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1 )
. . . would be suitble.
Why two batteries? What kind? . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: field breaker pops |
Bob,
If you remember, I've got an RV-6 (now flying) that I followed your
recommended wiring with the fuse panels for main and essential busses.
I also employ 2 B&C alternators with the 8 amp pad mounted as an
auxiliary alternator. Everything has been working fine but now the main
alternator field breaker pops after the airplane has been flying for
about 15 minutes. If I reset the breaker it will pop again in about a
minute or so.
Steve,
do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it say in
cruising flight?
If I reset the breaker after the airplane is on the
ground and taxiing it will most often stay reset. This has given me the
opportunity to use the auxiliary alternator and essential buss setup and
it has worked flawlessly. Any ideas why the breaker might be popping?
What color wires are on your OV module. If black/red it's an
older model that is twitchy on SOME airplanes. It may be that
I need to update it for you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Low power contactor |
Earlier on this list, Bob asked for the source of the low power contactor. It
is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the site is harder to navigate.
The model that you would want is the EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from
onlinecomponents.com , which is one of the distrubutors. Nice unit, but it may
need cooling as it is encased in resin. I plan to put the fuse, ANL current
limiter, capacitor for cutting noise from the PM alternator, and two regulators
for the two alternators all in one aluminum box with some air flow.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> >Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED?
> Any
> >ramifications?
>
> I published that drawing in the temp director on the website
> a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over
> in the server switch.
>
> Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall
> downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file.
Bob and the group,
attached is the jpg of the LED setup with the LR-3 voltage regulator
that Bob published earlier.
Mike Salzman
LNCE
Fairfield, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3 Controller |
>Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any
>ramifications?
I published that drawing in the temp director on the website
a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over
in the server switch.
Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall
downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file.
SEVERAL LISTERS HAVE SENT ME COPIES OF THE MISSING
SKETCH. YOU CAN ACCESS IT AT:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/LV_Led.jpg
THANKS FOLKS!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Low power contactor |
>
>
>Earlier on this list, Bob asked for the source of the low power
>contactor. It is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the
>site is harder to navigate. The model that you would want is the
>EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from onlinecomponents.com , which is one of
>the distrubutors. Nice unit, but it may need cooling as it is encased in
>resin. I plan to put the fuse, ANL current limiter, capacitor for cutting
>noise from the PM alternator, and two regulators for the two alternators
>all in one aluminum box with some air flow.
Found this on Kilovac's website at
http://www.kilovac.com/general.news.item.asp?id=330
This isn't the device I'd seen earlier but it offers similar
characteristics for a lower price.
Here's the datasheet on the EV200
http://www.kilovac.com/pdf/kilovac/high.voltage/pdf/ev200.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
Subject: | Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter |
Bob,
I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However, the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic.
The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the Westach expanded
scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of fig.7-18 in
the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change the component values
to those that you have already calculated in the accompaning text. I can
hold my own with a soldering iron.
And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with that. I
bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the system to read
using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with a total resistance
of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of the 50 mv 20 amp
shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading full scale on this
meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of the meter face, if I
decide not to redo the voltmeter part.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Bright-Dim switch |
From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
I'm trying to figure out the best way to make a bright-dim switch for
multiple LED's in my panel driven by different circuits. My initial
thought was to run the ground for all the LED's through the toggle such
that in the Bright position, it would go directly to ground and in the
Dim position, it would go through an additional resistor to dim the
LED's. But this of course won't provide consistent results because the
amount of voltage drop across the dimming resistor would depend upon how
many of the LED circuits were turned On.
Wondering if it would work to use a zener diode in place of the resistor
to provide a constant voltage drop for consistent dimming regardless of
how many LED's are on?? Is there a better or simpler scheme for a
Bright/Dim switch that I'm missing?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts.....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
Have you ever considered offering a DPDT relay in your catalog to
complement the SPDT S704-1? You mention on your website that the S704-1
is good for use with flaps and trim systems, but if I understand it
correctly, I will need TWO of these relays for the flaps and two for each
trim axis (I'm using the coolie hat on the Infinity stick grip for trim).
This means for flaps and two trim axis I need 6 relays (at $60), whereas
with DPDT relays I could get by with only 3 (and probably less $$) for
these functions, right?
I know I can get DPDT relays at Radio Shack and other places but I
thought I'd ask you first....seems that other folks could use them also
and it would be nice to have some with the same kind of connectors that
the S704-1 has...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter |
Jim,
Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom
of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of
their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and
it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge
with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could
trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style
Ned
http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
>
> Bob,
> I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer
offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks
identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However,
the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I
want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you
suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions
about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks
like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would
replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic.
> The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the
Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of
fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change
the component values to those that you have already calculated in the
accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron.
> And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with
that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the
system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with
a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of
the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading
full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of
the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part.
>
> Jim Foerster
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter |
Jim,
Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom
of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of
their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and
it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge
with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could
trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style
Ned
http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
>
> Bob,
> I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer
offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks
identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However,
the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I
want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you
suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions
about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks
like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would
replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic.
> The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the
Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of
fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change
the component values to those that you have already calculated in the
accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron.
> And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with
that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the
system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with
a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of
the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading
full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of
the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part.
>
> Jim Foerster
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
> >What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
>
> Those turned out to be a not so hot idea.
What was the problem with the MOV's?
David Swartzendruber
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3 Controller |
How would you set up the dimmer switch? Another resistor on a switch?
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3
Controller
>
> >Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any
> >ramifications?
>
> I published that drawing in the temp director on the website
> a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over
> in the server switch.
>
> Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall
> downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file.
>
> SEVERAL LISTERS HAVE SENT ME COPIES OF THE MISSING
> SKETCH. YOU CAN ACCESS IT AT:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/LV_Led.jpg
>
> THANKS FOLKS!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
They wear out (get consumed). I don't know if that's why Bob had a
problem with them, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like them
for protecting against spikes in computer equipment - I prefer series
power filters.
-John
David Swartzendruber wrote:
>
>
>>>What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
>>
>> Those turned out to be a not so hot idea.
>
>
>
> What was the problem with the MOV's?
>
> David Swartzendruber
> Wichita
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Phil Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
Subject: | Diagram Z-14 questions |
I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES
and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair
schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Pack
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions
Bob,
In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the
Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the
Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most
people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV).
In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6"
requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this?
In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one
alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason
not to do that?
If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close?
Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any
ramifications?
If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp
glow?
I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators.
Is the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web
site only has ANL40 & ANL 60).
What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the
difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with
diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the
functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same?
Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair
diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?)
In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps
for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in
place of the one drawn (or is it the same)?
- Jim
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Re: Lancair AutoCAD Schematic |
I got it off of Bob's Site
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
Scroll down until you see the article, "Down-loadable wiring diagrams in
AutoCAD: "
That has the AutoCAD Lancair diagram.
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Hildebrand" <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions
>
> I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES
> and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair
> schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax.
> Thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Pack
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
> In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the
> Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the
> Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most
> people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV).
>
>
> In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6"
> requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this?
>
>
> In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one
> alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason
> not to do that?
>
>
> If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close?
>
>
> Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any
> ramifications?
>
>
> If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp
> glow?
>
>
> I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators.
> Is the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web
> site only has ANL40 & ANL 60).
>
>
> What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
>
>
> Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the
> difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with
> diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the
> functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same?
>
>
> Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair
> diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?)
>
>
> In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps
> for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in
> place of the one drawn (or is it the same)?
>
>
> - Jim
>
>
> >
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Bob's Philosophy |
In a message dated 10/03/2002 2:52:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
".........skip...... I much prefer to look back 10 or 20 years hence and know
that you and I and a few thousand others worked together to add real
value to our collective existence at no expense to anyone else. And further,
all it really cost us was the time to sit down and discuss those little
details of physics that makes it all work. Bob . . ."
10/3/2002
What a superb philosopy. I'm proud to be a very tiny part of it.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Location of bus and contactor for rear-mounted batteries. |
>In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires
>recommended between the Battery / Battery Contactor /
>Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus
>must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where
>are most people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV).
>>Battery busses should be right next to the battery as
>>should their respective contactors. This is why those
>>leads are flagged as having the shortest practical
>>length.
Those of us building the Lancair Super ES are generally stuck with putting the
battery in the back of the plane for weight and balance reasons. Where do you
recommend putting the battery contactor and battery bus in that situation? What
modifications, if any, would you make to Z14?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
I'm using two MAC Stick grips model G7 and am wondering which relay to use
so that both grips can have full control of elevator/aileron trim.
Is there a schematic schematic for this?
Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the power to
the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw a maximum
of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also?
What relay would be recommended for this?
Any schematic available for this application?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>
>Have you ever considered offering a DPDT relay in your catalog to
>complement the SPDT S704-1? You mention on your website that the S704-1
>is good for use with flaps and trim systems, but if I understand it
>correctly, I will need TWO of these relays for the flaps and two for each
>trim axis (I'm using the coolie hat on the Infinity stick grip for trim).
> This means for flaps and two trim axis I need 6 relays (at $60), whereas
>with DPDT relays I could get by with only 3 (and probably less $$) for
>these functions, right?
>
>I know I can get DPDT relays at Radio Shack and other places but I
>thought I'd ask you first....seems that other folks could use them also
>and it would be nice to have some with the same kind of connectors that
>the S704-1 has...
Why dpdt? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/flaps.pdf
The S704-1 a bit of a hog for trim but they have the
distinct advantage of using fast-on connections. The
diagram shown above will work with any PM motor system
and best yet, it puts a dead short across the motor when
both relays are relaxed. This has the effect of dynamically
braking the motor and minimizes coast.
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Diagram Z-14 questions |
>
>
>
> > >What is an "mov"? Where do I get them?
> >
> > Those turned out to be a not so hot idea.
>
>
>What was the problem with the MOV's?
They were originally attractive because they were AC
devices and it didn't matter what polarity the leads
were connected.
The problems were several.
(1) harder to find in the lower voltage versions.
(2) didn't clamp transients off as well as a diode.
(3) they were reputed to allow large contactors
to open faster than with diode clamping. I did
measurements that were unable to confirm any
significant difference.
(4) more expensive than diodes.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter |
>
>Jim,
>
>Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom
>of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of
>their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and
>it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge
>with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could
>trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style
>
>Ned
>
>http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm
Just looked this over and note that they did not duplicate
the markings for the instrument they produced for my
project. They show a RED arc from 13.0 to 14.5 volts
which should be green.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rewiring the Westach dual |
ammeter-voltmeter
>
>
>Bob,
>I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer
>offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks
>identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However,
>the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to
>15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs
>you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any
>suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts
>and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not
>sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic.
> The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the
> Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic
> of fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or
> change the component values to those that you have already calculated in
> the accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron.
Figure 7-18 illustrates the technique for fabricating an
expanded scale voltmeter. You would have to re-calculate
the resistor values using the techniques cited.
> And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with
> that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the
> system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement
> with a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one
> side of the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75
> mv, reading full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo
> this part of the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part.
If it's a 1 mA movement at 50 ohms, this makes it
a 50MV movement for FULL scale deflection. Leaving the
instrument centered gives you 25 mV for half scale
deflection and indication of 30A. This translates to
the equivalent of a 60A shunt for an instrument that
runs 50 mv for full deflection. You could trade your
20A shunt for a 60A shunt and the instrument is fine
as is.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)globaleyes.net> |
Subject: | Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
Hi Bob,
I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about 20 years
ago!!!
Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe, xponder
& NavCom. No starter.
I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested. Where can
I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation" prices?
Thanks!
Sam Hoskins
http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
Jim,
I had dual MAC sticks in my RV-6. You need one relay per stick, but
only one speed controller. I followed the MAC instructions that came
with the sticks and things worked just fine.
However, when I do my F1 Rocket, I will not install trim switches for
the passenger. I can't tell you how many times my passenger would rest
his/her "stuff" on top of the stick and accidentally activate the
trim. If you want to wake up quickly, have your airplane make an
uncommanded maneuver on you. I tested my airplane and found that I
could land it with full up or down trims although it was a handfull so
I realized that the dual trims were not really necessary.
With regard to the autopilot, I think Van's sells an electronic
component for this. Check out his web store.
Randy Pflanzer
F1 Rocket #95
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/F1Rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Pack <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Date: Thursday, October 3, 2002 11:20 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic
>
> I'm using two MAC Stick grips model G7 and am wondering which
> relay to use
> so that both grips can have full control of elevator/aileron trim.
>
> Is there a schematic schematic for this?
>
> Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the
> power to
> the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw
> a maximum
> of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also?
>
> What relay would be recommended for this?
>
> Any schematic available for this application?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> _-
>
=======================================================================_
-= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
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-= !! NEW !!
> _-
>
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-= List Related Information
> _-
>
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>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | In-line fuse or to the panel? |
Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator
& the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp
alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you
run the wire back to the fuse panel?
What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it
typical to install this?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | In-line fuse or to the panel? |
Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator
& the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp
alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you
run the wire back to the fuse panel?
What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it
typical to install this?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "glong2" <glong2(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
Sam:
I just received 2 Panasonic 20 AH RG batteries from Digikey for my ES. They
were about $42 each. They are about 2.99 wide, 7.13" long, and 6.58" high,
weigh 14.34 lbs each.
Since I am putting on an Aerocomposite prop, saving close to 50#, I am
mounting my batteries under the copilot's seat. By my calculations the CG
should be ok with the new propeller. I will have the batteries installed in
a couple of days and can send photo's if you would like.
Eugene Long
Lancair Super ES
glong2(at)netzero.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
Hi Bob,
I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about 20
years ago!!!
Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe,
xponder & NavCom. No starter.
I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested.
Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation"
prices?
Thanks!
Sam Hoskins
http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | RE: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system wirebook) |
>
>
> I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES
>and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair
>schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax.
>Thanks
The wirebook in progress is part of the CD ROM available
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/AEC70/AEC70.zip
Keep in mind that this wirebook is a work-in-progress
offered as a basis for doing your own document using
one of the CAD programs included on the CD_ROM.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "texasquadj(at)prodigy.net" <texasquadj(at)Prodigy.net> |
Subject: | Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
Sam,
Jeff LeTempt here (the guy with the Dragonfly project from Rolla, MO). I
have not ordered one for my plane yet but All Electronics offers a 12V 17AH
model for $35.00. The part number is CAT# GC-217
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=160400&item=GC-2
17&type=store
They have all kinds of cool electronic stuff - cheap. I am going to order
a couple of the little halagon lights to use as my landing lights for $3.50
each.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=320150&type=stor
e
Shipping charge is $6.00 in the Continental US regardless of what you
order. You can also request a free printed catalog (basically cartoon
drawings).
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Sam Hoskins shoskins(at)globaleyes.net
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:06:59 -0500
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
Hi Bob,
I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about
20 years ago!!!
Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe,
xponder & NavCom. No starter.
I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested.
Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation"
prices?
Thanks!
Sam Hoskins
http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker |
Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic,
but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement, every
one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm.
This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your computer
with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and others by
avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with www.mcaffe.com,
www.symantec.com and many more.
Kind regards
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch> |
Subject: | Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker |
Werni et al,
http://www.mcafee.com/ please ;-)
To check your system online I suggest http://housecall.antivirus.com/ -
dial-up Internet users can disconnect as soon as the program started
scanning your system.
-Kurt.
PS. Glad if the list master decides to strip MIME attachments or even
better allow TEXT only mails.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus
checker
-->
Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic,
but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement,
every one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm.
This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your
computer with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and
others by avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with
www.mcaffe.com, www.symantec.com and many more.
Kind regards
Werner
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system |
wirebook)
Bob - Is this the wirebook that you are developing for Lancair for use
on the ES (per your note to me awhile back), or will it be a generic one
for the IV, IVP, Legacy and the ES?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
> > I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair
ES
> >and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair
> >schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax.
> >Thanks
>The wirebook in progress is part of the CD ROM available
>at http://www.aeroelectric.com/AEC70/AEC70.zip .....
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
Subject: | Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker |
My Norton Anti-virus captured a bugbear this afternoon. Keep those virus
definitions up-to date!
William
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus
checker
Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic,
but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement, every
one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm.
This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your computer
with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and others by
avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with www.mcaffe.com,
www.symantec.com and many more.
Kind regards
Werner
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system |
wirebook)
>
>
>Bob - Is this the wirebook that you are developing for Lancair for use
>on the ES (per your note to me awhile back), or will it be a generic one
>for the IV, IVP, Legacy and the ES?
I'm not developing one. About 4-5 years ago, I was offering
wirebook services but found myself buried in a backlog of
work I'd never dig out of. The downloadables from my
website are major component artifacts of that effort.
They are a collection of page per system drawings that
can be used to assemble your own professional looking
document without having to do it all from scratch.
I will be working with a builder who wants to do
custom wirebooks but it may be some time before we
want to dump a Z-14-in-a-Lancair sized task on
him.
Unless you are already fairly salty with a CAD
program that will work with these drawings, I recommend
you do not spend any time learning to be a CAD
driver. A three-ring binder full of paper, a
pink pearl eraser and a fist full of .7mm pencils
will let you document and easily revise the technical
details of your project as it progresses.
One page, one system. After your airplane is flying
and you have some time to kill during bad flying
weather, convert your hand drawings to CAD drawings.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: In-line fuse or to the panel? |
>
>
>Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator
>& the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp
>alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you
>run the wire back to the fuse panel?
B-leads from alternators need to stay off the panel. This
is what's shown on all of our power distribution diagrams.
If you use JJN/JJS series fuses for alternator b-lead protection
then use an 80A fuse for a 60A alternator. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fusvsbkr.html
If you want to go the ANL current limiter route, the device
can be selected for the same size or even a little smaller
than the alternator's rated output.
>What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it
>typical to install this?
It's pink elephant insurance. Used to sell them and at
one time, they were a hot item of discussion on the
various list servers. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spike.pdf
I even included one as part of the loadmeter/voltmeter
system I sold a short time back. Bottom line is that
I've never been able to capture an electrical gremlin
that would be expected to trigger one of these devices.
For a time in the late 60's we experimented with various
active spike catching circuits on the single engine Cessnas.
We came up with some pretty nifty circuits but the bottom line
was that even then, we could never identify the existence
much less a source of spikes that was worth building a
spike catcher for.
I don't think I'd bother to include one in a new
design.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | SMT MOSFET MODULES |
I am building the following SMT MOSFET devices, epoxy potted into teeny little
modules--
1) Bob's Low Voltage Warning and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm
X 32 mm) I said I'd make up kits of these, but I have discovered what "Heathkit"
did, that the kit is at least as expensive as the assembled device, so for
now I must renege and sell modules only. These connect via 1/4" Fastons instead
of sub-D9.
2) "PowerLink"-- I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws
6 mA and switches 1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an
engine (or discharge a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state features.
This thing is 1" X 2 1/2" X .300" and weighs in at 1/2 Ounce. A better part
than the Kilovac contactor.
3) "PowerLink Junior"-- Half of everything of the above with fewer features. THIS
would start the motorglider in a pinch. 0.5" X 1.375. 160 Amp. So small it
still scares me.
4) I have also designed and built a NON-CROWBAR Over-Voltage Disconnect Module.
Several people have asked about this. Upon voltage over 16.0 Volts, back-to-back
FETs disconnect the line and light a remote LED. Unit is latched off until
reset button is pushed. If reset is held in intentionally, the module stays
on. No blown fuses or tripped breakers. It is also 7/8" X 1 1/4".
5) In prototype: "Perfect Cube"-0.5" X 0.5" X 0.5" (has 20 parts!) Uses the very
latest solid-state thinking in SSRs. diagnostic outputs, onboard indicator led,
.over-current and over-temperature, 35A limit, ESD, reverse battery connection,
active clamping, voltage peak clipping, ground loss, load dump, battery
disconnection, open load indication, double battery, etc. protection. 1000X longer
life than electro-mechanical relays. Intended to interface stick switches
especially.
6) Soon to come: Universal Dimmer-Multi-dimmer module with ambient light feedback
and several settable "zones". Stay tuned-still adding features.
-----------------------------------------
I will still make the AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board complete in a flame
retardant plastic box if I can get three buyers. (Three is the minimum number
of PCBs I can order.). Total to you (USA) $105.00 Shipping included.
OR
I will share with you my design It goes into a Serpac C10 case which is 2.3" X
3.25" X 0.8". The parts list totals $60. No charge for information. Contact me
off-list if you are interested.
OR
I will sell a complete kit of parts and instructions. (We also need three builders).
$85 Shipping included.
Contact me off-list if you are interested.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
Glastar builder (when I get time).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Subject: | CrossFeed Wire / Flap Limit Switch |
Sould the wire between the CrossFeed Contactor & The Battery Contactors be
less than 6 inches also?
What switch do you recommend for a Flap Limit Switch?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
There is some talk in the archives about VS mounted video cameras, but I
don't see any follow-through. Has anyone actually mounted something
like this in their VS or elsewhere on their RV? Might be kinda fun
.........
http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/videocameras/pinholecovert/bulletcameras.
html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker |
Hello Kurt,
thanks for correcting the typo. And I have to protect Matt, the list IS
attachement free, but as today most of the "worms" are using YOUR address
book/inbox and by standard several MS mailing programms.
And if I wrote in the past a mail for the mailing list and you keept it or
have my email address in your address book, the chance is 99.9% that if you
catch a virus your computer will try to infect mine (be suspect for ALL
DIRECT send mails with attachement)!
So please, everybody connected to the Internet using MS operating systems
and MS mailing programm you NEED a virus scanner and have to update at least
ONCE A WEEK your virus definition! This will cost you around 50 bucks a
year, that is nothing compared to an infected computer and the hassel to
clean and set it up new (or it is about one hour flying a year).
Sorry again for the off topic .
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus
checker
>
> Werni et al,
>
> http://www.mcafee.com/ please ;-)
>
> To check your system online I suggest http://housecall.antivirus.com/ -
> dial-up Internet users can disconnect as soon as the program started
> scanning your system.
>
> -Kurt.
>
> PS. Glad if the list master decides to strip MIME attachments or even
> better allow TEXT only mails.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop1(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
>Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
If you live in or near a large enough city to have electronic surplus
stores, check em out.
17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00.
--
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
>
> >Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
>
>If you live in or near a large enough city to have electronic surplus
>stores, check em out.
>
>17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00.
Unless you are buying a new battery with a known
history, you don't know what the battery's capabilities
are without performing a capacity test on it.
RG batteries do have an excellent shelf life but
it's not infinite. I've seen ads for batteries
"removed from service" that are "tested good".
These are fine for many applications where the
user doesn't really care what the true capacity
of the battery is.
Unless YOU test them and know what you've
got, the few dollars NOT spent is not a savings.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
>
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about
>20 years ago!!!
>
>Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries?
>
>I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe,
>xponder & NavCom. No starter.
>
>I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you
>suggested. Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying
>"aviation" prices?
>
>Thanks!
There have been a number of sources cited here on the list for
RG batteries. Digikey has Panasonics at:
http://info.digikey.com/T023/V5/0897.pdf
The LC-X1220P is $41
Allied has PowerSonics at:
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?PreviousCatalog=True&FN=16.pdf
The PS12180NB is listed at $49.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Virus checkers |
>
>
>Hello Kurt,
>
>And if I wrote in the past a mail for the mailing list and you keept it or
>have my email address in your address book, the chance is 99.9% that if you
>catch a virus your computer will try to infect mine (be suspect for ALL
September 18, 2002 - October 04, 2002
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-be