AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-be

September 18, 2002 - October 04, 2002



         Bob . . .
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Insulation
boeing.com> >Bob, > >I have modified a Nippon Internally Regulated alternator to use the B&C >regulator. I need to insulate an area where I had to remove a tab/terminal >and expose metal. The area is very small, no more than 1/16" x 1/4" (tab >size). Can you suggest a compound, and something hard like a wafer of >bakelite to insulate the exposed area with? I'm having trouble visualizing the task. Are you asking about some kind of sheet material? How about fiberglas sheet from which etched circuit boards are made? This can be had as thin as 0.010" and as thick as 1/8". Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Insulation boeing.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Are you talking about where you had to cut off the tab on the diode stack that one of the tabs on the brush assy mounted to? What I've seen used there is a thin piece of phenolic glued across the exposed area. I believe it has to be bent in the middle because the cut is not a straight cut. David Swartzendruber Wichita > > > >I have modified a Nippon Internally Regulated alternator to use the B&C > >regulator. I need to insulate an area where I had to remove a > tab/terminal > >and expose metal. The area is very small, no more than 1/16" x 1/4" (tab > >size). Can you suggest a compound, and something hard like a wafer of > >bakelite to insulate the exposed area with? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Intresting electrical question
Date: Sep 19, 2002
I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches? (charge in parallel and use in series) Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v They do not need to be used while charging? Can it be done without switches? If not what is the simplest way with least switches? Thanks Ian Scott - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Bosch relay
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Bob and all, I am building an RV-8 with a Ray Allen G-7 stick grip. I'm planning on using Bosch automotive relays for flap control and autopilot servo disconnect. Any reason not to use these relays? What is the difference between the 330-070 and the 330-073? Thanks for any help. Ted H. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bosch relay
> > >Bob and all, > I am building an RV-8 with a Ray Allen G-7 stick grip. I'm planning on >using Bosch automotive relays for flap control and autopilot servo >disconnect. Any reason not to use these relays? What is the difference >between the 330-070 and the 330-073? Thanks for any help. >Ted H. The only data I could find quickly on the -070 and -073 doesn't show any difference in them. Either appears suited to the task. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Intresting electrical question
> >I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I >was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches? >(charge in parallel and use in series) > >Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v > >They do not need to be used while charging? > >Can it be done without switches? > >If not what is the simplest way with least switches? > >Thanks > >Ian Scott You could do a solid state switching arrangement but it's pretty complex. Here's a manual switch scheme. http://216.55.140.222/temp/2xBat.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "louis palmenteri" <phebe38(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: ammeter swings
Date: Sep 19, 2002
hi all, i have a problem. im using schematic z-11 i have a vans aircraft -40 0 40 ammeter with a 40 amp shunt. i connected it in series with the main bus power feed line. im using an internally regulated alternator. havent hooked it up yet though. when i power up my electrical system and turn on my icom ac200 when i key the ptt or mic the ammeter swings rapidly to full discharge. if the radio is off and i key the ptt or mic it doesnt swing. 1 why is this happening and where should i connect my alternator b lead in this installation. thanks Lou Palmenteri MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board etc.
Date: Sep 19, 2002
I have ordered parts and boards for three VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board units in nice little cases. These should be completed and shipped by Friday Sept 27. One is still available. I have ordered boards and parts for an SMT version of Bob's Low Voltage Warning and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm X 32 mm) . I could make up kits of these, but you'd have to be into doing REALLY REALLY small electronic assembly under a microscope. These connect via 1/4" Fastons instead of sub-D9. I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws 6 mA and switches 1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an engine (or discharge a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state features. (Test data still to come...I'm have a problem finding big test loads).This thing is 1" X 2 1/2" X .300 and weighs in at 1/2 Ounce. Contact me off-list if you are interested. Regards, Eric M. Jones Glastar builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com>
Subject: Safety rant
Date: Sep 19, 2002
"John Slade" wrote : Re: Fuel tank grounding > Sorry if I came off as a bit wild-eyed on this. Not at all. I really enjoyed enjoyed the rant. Hi Bob, I enjoyed it too. There are far too many PC idiots around these days that won't tell it how it is. Thank God (can I say that?) you aren't one. Keep up the very good work Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A fuse. N919RV resvd. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Ground conduit for a pusher
Date: Sep 19, 2002
As I start to gather the parts for my electrical system, I have heard that I can use a copper tube for the ground on a pusher plane. I went to the local hardware store to look at the choices. What would be the appropriate size copper tubing that I should use? I think that the duct can handle a 3/4" tube. Does it make a difference if the copper tube is an "L Blue" or a "M Red " copper tube? Should I cover the outside of the copper tubing? When I attach the neg to the outside of the tube, should I also solder the connection? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net>
Subject: Safety rant
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio.. I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should also use the same pinouts.. Thanks, Dave Murphy Super Rebel #57 Vancouver, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net>
Subject: Narco COM pinout
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first attempt.. Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio.. I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should also use the same pinouts.. Thanks, Dave Murphy Super Rebel #57 Vancouver, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Chambers" <schamber@glasgow-ky.com>
Subject: Re: Safety rant
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Dave, I have the info at the hangar. I will get it tomorrow and if no one has already sent it, I will. Sam Chambers Long-EZ N775AM Glasgow, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Qualley" <dqualley(at)telus.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Safety rant > > > Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking > around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio.. > > I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should > also use the same pinouts.. > > Thanks, > Dave > Murphy Super Rebel #57 > Vancouver, BC > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <nauga(at)brick.net>
Subject: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring
Date: Sep 19, 2002
I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the next question. I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's a picture of the back of an identical model at: http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal, though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see above link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg (see: http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar? If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others have used the same alternator - I don't know if anyone's added OV protection. Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the shop door open with the old Delco lead brick. Dave Hyde nauga(at)brick.net RV-4 FWF and electrical and on and on and on... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dean van winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: ReFuel tank grounding
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Like " Old Bob ", I also remember the Boeing 707 crash in the fairly early operational life of the model. IIRC, the 707 crashed near Elkton, Md as a result of being struck by lightning rather than a static discharge and yes this led to a change in the fuel vent system. I believe this happened sometime in the early 1960s. Apparently the NTSB actual web listings only go back to sometime in the 1980s, the rest are in off-line records. Dean ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring
Date: Sep 19, 2002
I'm also at the point of needing an alternator. For those of you who have gone the route of getting one from the autoparts store or junk yard, what did you do about the bracketry? Make something custom, or what? I've been considering the NiagaraAirparts 40 amp alternator (http://www.niagaraairparts.com/) because everything seems to be included. On the downside, it has an internal regulator and is a little pricey compared to AutoZone -- but still a deal compared to B&C. Thanks for the input! - Larry Bowen RV-8 finish Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of nauga(at)brick.net > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:58 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring > > > > I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks > to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the > next question. > > I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal > regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's > a picture of the back of an identical model at: > > http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html > > with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is > hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric > Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated > alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal, > though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see > above link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg > (see: > http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html > > Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back > of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar? > If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others > have used the same alternator - I don't know if > anyone's added OV protection. > > Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the > shop door open with the old Delco lead brick. > > Dave Hyde > nauga(at)brick.net > RV-4 FWF and electrical and on and on and on... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Narco COM pinout
> >Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first >attempt.. > > >Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking >around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio.. > >I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should >also use the same pinouts.. > >Thanks, >Dave >Murphy Super Rebel #57 >Vancouver, BC sure. Download http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%2011b.pdf Bob . . . Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Internal reg alternators mystery wiring
> >I got my turn coordinator noise fixed thanks >to Bob Nuckoll's suggestion. Time for the >next question. > >I've got a NipponDenso alternator with an internal >regulator (new, 55A, for an '87 Samurai). There's >a picture of the back of an identical model at: > >http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt104.html > >with the four terminals labelled. What I wanna do is >hook it up to a crowbar OV sensor as in The Aeroelectric >Connection in the drawing for internally-regulated >alternators (duh). This one doesn't have a field terminal, >though. There's the hole in the back marked 'field' (see above >link), which goes to a screw terminal on the internal reg >(see: >http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt130.html > >Can I mount a wire to this terminal and run it out the back >of the case to connect to the +12v bus and the crowbar? >If not, what's the normal thing to do? I know others >have used the same alternator - I don't know if >anyone's added OV protection. > >Nice compact alternator anyway - now I can prop the >shop door open with the old Delco lead brick. I'd connect the S and IG terminals together and use them as crowbar ov protected input from your alternator control switch. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: Re: Narco COM pinout
Date: Sep 19, 2002
Gee Bob, Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin outs for a Narco 122 ? Thanks, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Narco COM pinout > > > > >Sorry for the repost, I forgot to change the subject line on the first > >attempt.. > > > > > >Does anyone have a pinout for the Narco COM11A.. I have this oldie kicking > >around and thought I would wire it up for a hangar radio.. > > > >I believe the newer Narco COM 810+ is a direct replacement, so it should > >also use the same pinouts.. > > > >Thanks, > >Dave > >Murphy Super Rebel #57 > >Vancouver, BC > > sure. Download http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%2011b.pdf > > Bob . . . > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module > > > IDEAL would > > >be a little kit with all the required parts and instructions in a plastic > > >bag - I'd be happy to PAY for such a kit. > > > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built > > and are in service in various places around RAC. > > >Great. Can I be the first customer? When? If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at: http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week. I expect them to be on the order of $35.00 Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ammeter swings
> > > >hi all, > >i have a problem. im using schematic z-11 i have a vans aircraft -40 0 40 >ammeter with a 40 amp shunt. i connected it in series with the main bus >power feed line. im using an internally regulated alternator. havent hooked >it up yet though. when i power up my electrical system and turn on my icom >ac200 when i key the ptt or mic the ammeter swings rapidly to full >discharge. if the radio is off and i key the ptt or mic it doesnt swing. > >1 why is this happening and where should i connect my alternator b lead in >this installation. The -zero+ ammeter isn't fully useful as a battery ammeter in any of the power distribution diagrams I've published. For this instrument to work like it does in the '49 Chevy and most airplanes, the alternator b-lead needs to tie to the bus. If you want to stay with this instrument, I'd put the shunt in the alternator b-lead and attache the b-lead via a fuse/current limiter to the starter contactor. The instrument would simply behave as an alternator loadmeter and always show (+) readings. Do you plan to have active notification of low voltage? A voltmeter too? I am mystified as to why it's behaving as you describe. It sounds like the ammeter is seeing full bus current draw instead of the proportional fraction that would pass off from the shunt. I suspect incorrect shunt size or a wiring problem. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Narco COM pinout
> > >Gee Bob, > >Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin >outs for a Narco 122 ? sure. http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco%20122.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board
etc. > >I have ordered parts and boards for three VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board >units in nice little cases. These should be completed and shipped by >Friday Sept 27. One is still available. > >I have ordered boards and parts for an SMT version of Bob's Low Voltage >Warning and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm X 32 mm) . I >could make up kits of these, but you'd have to be into doing REALLY >REALLY small electronic assembly under a microscope. These connect via >1/4" Fastons instead of sub-D9. > >I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws 6 mA and >switches 1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an >engine (or discharge a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state >features. (Test data still to come...I'm have a problem finding big test >loads). Try coils of closeline wire. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Of to Camarillo until Monday
Will be off-list for a few days. Gotta go talk to some guys about airplanes. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: ELT antennae?
Date: Sep 20, 2002
I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit behind the empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting performance? Or Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. They seem to be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely. Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Intresting electrical question
Date: Sep 20, 2002
Thanks, though I cant see it. Any chance it could be mailed to me? Ian jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intresting electrical question --> >--> > >I need to charge a pair of 6V battery packs and use them in series, I >was wondering if it was possible to do this without using switches? >(charge in parallel and use in series) > >Reason is I only have 10 V to charge them and need them to output 12v > >They do not need to be used while charging? > >Can it be done without switches? > >If not what is the simplest way with least switches? > >Thanks > >Ian Scott You could do a solid state switching arrangement but it's pretty complex. Here's a manual switch scheme. http://216.55.140.222/temp/2xBat.jpg Bob . . . = = = http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list = - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module
Date: Sep 20, 2002
Bob, Your schematic doesn't show any pin numbers on the DB-9. Any chance of updating the .PDF file with this information? I'm interested in one of the assembled units when it's available... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 2003 Hrs of safe flying! Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management Module From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net) Date: Thu Sep 19 - 8:19 PM > > > IDEAL would > > >be a little kit with all the required parts and instructions in a plastic > > >bag - I'd be happy to PAY for such a kit. > > > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built > > and are in service in various places around RAC. > > >Great. Can I be the first customer? When? If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at: http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week. I expect them to be on the order of $35.00 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module
Date: Sep 20, 2002
> > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built > > > and are in service in various places around RAC. > > > > >Great. Can I be the first customer? When? > > If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right > now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at: > > http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf > > Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week. > > I expect them to be on the order of $35.00 Sounds good to me. I presume that the resitors, LED etc. are additional to the $10 - bought locally from RS. In which case it would be worth it to me to pay for the completed / tested board. I looked at the picture of the board and have one question.... How would this mount in a panel? Could the LED be mounted remote from the board? John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: adjustable voltage regulator
Date: Sep 21, 2002
I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit? Dave Ford ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob999" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank grounding
Date: Sep 22, 2002
Cy, You are correct in your statement, however that is one of several ways to build up more than enough static electricity to create a static discharge. Static discharges take place many times and we never see or know it. This can become a dangerous situation, I had the opportunity to be on a safety review team at the Kennedy Space Center that looked at many situations like this for rocket fuel and ordnance installation. It can also be generated by RF energy, that's why no radios, cell phone, etc (unless they are intrinsically safe) should be carried to the fueling location. It is clearly not a good idea to attach a static ground connection at the filler neck, unless it is a permanent connection that is taken to the airframe. A good point of connection (always connect the safety ground first and remove it last) for the fuelling station might be the wing tie down or the spring aluminum landing gear, if during the installation of your fuel tanks you effective grounded the tanks to the airframe. I used three metal bands riveted to the wing spar and I also used a ground wire from the float gauge to the wing spar and without break continued back to the firewall negative bus connection. Sorry for being long winded Bob N601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > The static charge necessary to create the spark is generated by the flow of > gasoline. No flow... No possible spark. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pazmany Newsletter" <pazmanynewsletter(at)cox.net> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > My concern is that as the fueler brings the grounded nozzle close to the > > ungrounded filler neck, a spark might jump between the two before they > make > > contact. And with the fuel tank open, the fuel to air mixture might be at > > the correct ratio to support combustion. > > > > Experimenter magazine had an article on this subject a couple of months > ago, > > and there's been ongoing discussion in the Letters to the Editor column. > > One letter writer recommended going to the Petroleum Equipment Institute's > > website for more information. Here's a link to an article about fires in > > plastic gas cans. http://www.pei.org/FRD/gascan.htm > > > > I think I'm going to connect the neck to the airframe so that if any spark > > is going to occur, it will happen where the fueler hooks up his ground > line, > > not at the filler neck. > > > > Ken > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > > To: > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Electric Bob, > > > > > > > >This might be a bit outside of your area of expertise, but I'd like > your > > > >opinion anyway. And my question IS electrical in nature. > > > > > > > >I'm building a Pazmany PL-2 that has two fiberglass fuel tanks, each > with > > an > > > >aluminum filler neck. The neck is electrically isolated from the > > airframe, > > > >and I'm concerned that when refueling, the ground line that is attached > > from > > > >the fuel truck to the airframe will not be effective in grounding the > > filler > > > >neck. If a static charge had built up on the tank during flight, > > grounding > > > >the airframe would have no effect on the tanks, and a spark might occur > > when > > > >the grounded fuel truck nozzle is touched to the ungrounded filler > neck. > > > > > > > >So, I'm going to connect the filler neck to the airframe. My question > is > > > >should I make it a low resitance connection (just a copper wire), or > > should > > > >I place a high resistance in the line (like the wrist straps that > > electronic > > > >technicians use when working with static sensitive devices)? My > > > >understanding is the high resistance would cause the charge to bleed > off > > > >slowly instead of all at once as with a low resistance connection, but > > I'm > > > >not sure if that's what I want in this case. > > > > > > When a fueler walks up to a Sundowner and puts the nozzle into > > > the tank, the electrical connection between the fuel truck ground > > > and the rim of the filler neck is pretty low resistance. I can't > > > think of any good reason to make that something different for > > > a plastic airplane. > > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > > > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > > > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Sweet" <wsweet(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank grounding
Date: Sep 22, 2002
Personally, I like the long winded answers. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob999" <bob999(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > Cy, > > You are correct in your statement, however that is one of several ways to > build up more than enough static electricity to create a static discharge. > Static discharges take place many times and we never see or know it. This > can become a dangerous situation, I had the opportunity to be on a safety > review team at the Kennedy Space Center that looked at many situations like > this for rocket fuel and ordnance installation. It can also be generated by > RF energy, that's why no radios, cell phone, etc (unless they are > intrinsically safe) should be carried to the fueling location. It is clearly > not a good idea to attach a static ground connection at the filler neck, > unless it is a permanent connection that is taken to the airframe. A good > point of connection (always connect the safety ground first and remove it > last) for the fuelling station might be the wing tie down or the spring > aluminum landing gear, if during the installation of your fuel tanks you > effective grounded the tanks to the airframe. I used three metal bands > riveted to the wing spar and I also used a ground wire from the float gauge > to the wing spar and without break continued back to the firewall negative > bus connection. > > Sorry for being long winded > Bob > N601XL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > > > > > The static charge necessary to create the spark is generated by the flow > of > > gasoline. No flow... No possible spark. > > > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pazmany Newsletter" <pazmanynewsletter(at)cox.net> > > To: > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > My concern is that as the fueler brings the grounded nozzle close to the > > > ungrounded filler neck, a spark might jump between the two before they > > make > > > contact. And with the fuel tank open, the fuel to air mixture might be > at > > > the correct ratio to support combustion. > > > > > > Experimenter magazine had an article on this subject a couple of months > > ago, > > > and there's been ongoing discussion in the Letters to the Editor column. > > > One letter writer recommended going to the Petroleum Equipment > Institute's > > > website for more information. Here's a link to an article about fires > in > > > plastic gas cans. http://www.pei.org/FRD/gascan.htm > > > > > > I think I'm going to connect the neck to the airframe so that if any > spark > > > is going to occur, it will happen where the fueler hooks up his ground > > line, > > > not at the filler neck. > > > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > > > To: > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel tank grounding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Electric Bob, > > > > > > > > > >This might be a bit outside of your area of expertise, but I'd like > > your > > > > >opinion anyway. And my question IS electrical in nature. > > > > > > > > > >I'm building a Pazmany PL-2 that has two fiberglass fuel tanks, each > > with > > > an > > > > >aluminum filler neck. The neck is electrically isolated from the > > > airframe, > > > > >and I'm concerned that when refueling, the ground line that is > attached > > > from > > > > >the fuel truck to the airframe will not be effective in grounding the > > > filler > > > > >neck. If a static charge had built up on the tank during flight, > > > grounding > > > > >the airframe would have no effect on the tanks, and a spark might > occur > > > when > > > > >the grounded fuel truck nozzle is touched to the ungrounded filler > > neck. > > > > > > > > > >So, I'm going to connect the filler neck to the airframe. My > question > > is > > > > >should I make it a low resitance connection (just a copper wire), or > > > should > > > > >I place a high resistance in the line (like the wrist straps that > > > electronic > > > > >technicians use when working with static sensitive devices)? My > > > > >understanding is the high resistance would cause the charge to bleed > > off > > > > >slowly instead of all at once as with a low resistance connection, > but > > > I'm > > > > >not sure if that's what I want in this case. > > > > > > > > When a fueler walks up to a Sundowner and puts the nozzle into > > > > the tank, the electrical connection between the fuel truck ground > > > > and the rim of the filler neck is pretty low resistance. I can't > > > > think of any good reason to make that something different for > > > > a plastic airplane. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > > > > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > > > > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lehman" <LehmansMtl(at)netzero.com>
Subject: adjustable voltage regulator
Date: Sep 22, 2002
> From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: adjustable voltage regulator > > > I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit? > > Dave Ford Dave, There is a 'heavy duty' version of the VR166 Ford type voltage regulator mentioned in the Bob's book (and shown on some of the schematics) designated VR166X. The VR166X includes under and over voltage sensing. Undervoltage is a steady light and over voltage is the same light flashing. Per the manufacturer's instructions, if the light is flashing, an over voltage has occurred putting the regulator in 'overcharge protection' mode. They recommend replacing the regulator and checking the charging system within 72 hours. Since undervoltage is a steady light in our cars, why not the same in our aircraft? Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: aux battery connection.
Date: Sep 23, 2002
In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor. From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was intended? Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the aux battery bus? Am I missing something here? I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: aux battery connection.
Date: Sep 23, 2002
Battery bus's are always on. The are small buses for things like clocks, hobbs etc as well as for things that need direct connections of their own such as EIs, etc. They sit right next to the battery. John -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kuc [mailto:bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com] Subject: AeroElectric-List: aux battery connection. In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor. From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was intended? Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the aux battery bus? Am I missing something here? I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
Subject: Wiring diagram program
From: Boyd Blue <blblue(at)earthlink.net>
Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify it easily. Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps. Thanks for the help! Boyd Blue ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring diagram program
Date: Sep 23, 2002
If you are looking for something simple to use, then if you have a spreadsheet or a wordprocessor, you can probably make use of that. They both should be able to create boxes that you can label. You can then draw lines to the boxes. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Blue" <blblue(at)earthlink.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring diagram program > > Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to > draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify > it easily. > Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is > the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps. > > Thanks for the help! > Boyd Blue > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
Subject: Re: Wiring diagram program
From: James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net>
On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 03:01 PM, Boyd Blue wrote: > Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is > the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps. > The drawing module in Appleworks should do this pretty easily, and comes free on the iMac. It's not terribly well documented, but it works fine. e-mail me offline if I can help. James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module > >Bob, > > Your schematic doesn't show any pin numbers on the DB-9. Any chance of > updating the .PDF file with this information? > I'm interested in one of the assembled units when it's available... Yeah, we'll do that. I didn't put them on the DIY drawing cause most folks would do their own point-to-point wiring and the pin-out had no rigid requirements. I'll update the drawing to show pin-outs that match our board. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module > > > > > Working on it. The board is done. Several have been built > > > > and are in service in various places around RAC. > > > > > > >Great. Can I be the first customer? When? > > > > If you want to roll your own, I've got a few boards available right > > now for $10.00 each. You can download the assembly aids at: > > > > http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf > > > > Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week. > > > > I expect them to be on the order of $35.00 >Sounds good to me. I presume that the resitors, LED etc. are additional to >the $10 - bought locally from RS. In which case it would be worth it to me >to pay for the completed / tested board. >I looked at the picture of the board and have one question.... >How would this mount in a panel? >Could the LED be mounted remote from the board? >John Slade This board doesn't mount on a panel. There are TWO leds in the circuit. One is on the board and in series with the other which is remotely mounted. See wiring diagram. I've already used this assembly in several applications at RAC where it was handy to have a "repeater" LED that could be seen by looking at the board when the one on the panel was 25' and a pressure bulkhead away. If one didn't want to include the second LED, you can just put a jumper wire across it's solder pads. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: To be or not to be . . . a two battery installation
In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of the contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor. Correct. From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what was intended? Right. Normal operating mode for the aux battery master is ON for all flight operations EXCEPT alternator-out/battery-only ops wherein BOTH battery contactors are opened and the system drops to minimum consumption of a limited resource until the airport is in sight. At this time, you can reclose the main battery contactor and use whatever energy is left to run whatever you please without placing and electrically dependent engine at risk. This is what the lv warn/abmm does for you automatically. You go to ON for cranking, AUTO for all other ops. If the alternator goes off line, the aux battery will not be tapped for any task other than keep an engine running. Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always visible on the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off the power to the aux battery bus? Am I missing something here? Can't imagine why you would want to do this. Battery busses are BATTERY busses. If the battery is good, that bus is ready to deal with tasks assigned to that bus - generally limited to electrically dependent engine support and misc tasks like dome lights, clocks, hobbs, etc. that need to run even if all masters are OFF. Running ANYTHING else is done with a considered positioning of MASTER and E-Bus Alternate Feed switches. I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard. I presume you have an electrically dependent engine wherein half of the stuff to run the engine can be split between two batteries and EITHER battery will support the engine all by itself if needs be. I've got some builders working with various automotive conversions with single fuel injection and/or ignition systems. Dual batteries don't do you any good here. Your properly maintained RG battery is not going to fail. Modern RG Batteries don't fail, they get run past useful service life and wear out. If I were building with this kind of engine setup, I'd run ignition/fuel systems from fusible links right off the hot side of the battery contactor and keep on truck'n ------------------------------------------------------- P.S. I do some of my clearest thinking in the shower. While getting ready to go to work, I decided I'd stuck my foot in it with the above post . . . TWO batteries may indeed still be a good thing to consider even if your engine's requirements cannot be evenly split between two batteries. A main battery could be tapped for e-bus energy while an aux battery gets partitioned off for engine support. Even if you can run an engine from EITHER battery, I would shut off half of engine loads on the main battery during battery only ops so that the main battery is only tasked to support e-bus loads. If you can go all-electric with two engine driven power sources, then one might save quite a bit of weight by not having a second battery . . . but with one alternator, two batteries are a good thing to consider irrespective of how engine loads are distributed between them. Keep in mind that if either battery proves inadequate to it's assigned task, you can always close the master switches to tie them both together . . . in this extremely rare, dual failure condition, you now have an electrical EMERGENCY and getting on the ground IOPASAP is the order of the day. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Narco COM pinout _ OOPS!
> > > > > > > >Gee Bob, > > > >Your a never ending source of information. Would you by chance have the pin > >outs for a Narco 122 ? > > > sure. http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_%20122.pdf > > Bob . . . Just sat down to check the weekend's e-mail and noticed that the document I posted in answer to this question was supposed to be TWO pages long. Sorry 'bout that. I've reposted the NAV 121/122 drawing at http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_122.pdf I note there is a model 122A also. Didn't check details to see how or if they were wired differently but in case this is the model you have, the pin-out is http://216.55.140.222/temp/Narco_122A.pdf Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: adjustable voltage regulator
> > > > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: adjustable voltage regulator > > > > > > I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable > voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) > or can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they > really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit? > > > > Dave Ford > >Dave, > >There is a 'heavy duty' version of the VR166 Ford type voltage regulator >mentioned in the Bob's book (and shown on some of the schematics) >designated VR166X. The VR166X includes under and over voltage >sensing. Undervoltage is a steady light and over voltage is the same >light flashing. Per the manufacturer's instructions, if the light is >flashing, an over voltage has occurred putting the regulator in >'overcharge protection' mode. They recommend replacing the regulator and >checking the charging system within 72 hours. > >Since undervoltage is a steady light in our cars, why not the same in our >aircraft? Why do you want two kinds of lights? An undervoltage condition is a static condition that warrants the attention-getting annunciation afforded by flashing the light. I'm mystified as to why anyone would put an over-voltage sensor and light in the airplane. From the time the regulator fails and the voltage climbs high enough to trip the crowbar is something on the order of 100 milliseconds. After the alternator is shut down, what WAS a very short lived ov condition IS NOW a long term lv condition. An ov annunciation would serve no useful purpose. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: aux battery connection.
> >In figure Z-11a then again in Z-30, the schematic shows the aux battery >attached to the aux battery contactor. From that same side of the >contactor, there is a wire to the aux battery bus, on the other side of >the contactor, the wire goes to the main battery contactor. Correct. > From what I can gather, the aux bus is always hot. and the aux battery > switch must be turned "on" to use the aux battery in the aid of the > starting and for the alternator to charge the aux battery. Is this what > was intended? Right. Normal operating mode for the aux battery master is ON for all flight operations EXCEPT alternator-out/battery-only ops wherein BOTH battery contactors are opened and the system drops to minimum consumption of a limited resource until the airport is in sight. At this time, you can reclose the main battery contactor and use whatever energy is left to run whatever you please without placing and electrically dependent engine at risk. This is what the lv warn/abmm does for you automatically. You go to ON for cranking, AUTO for all other ops. If the alternator goes off line, the aux battery will not be tapped for any task other than keep an engine running. > Could the aux battery contactor be reversed so that it is always > visible on the main line and use the aux master switch to turn on/off > the power to the aux battery bus? Am I missing something here? Can't imagine why you would want to do this. Battery busses are BATTERY busses. If the battery is good, that bus is ready to deal with tasks assigned to that bus - generally limited to electrically dependent engine support and misc tasks like dome lights, clocks, hobbs, etc. that need to run even if all masters are OFF. Running ANYTHING else is done with a considered positioning of MASTER and E-Bus Alternate Feed switches. >I am looking at the dual battery and single alternator setup for my canard. I presume you have an electrically dependent engine wherein half of the stuff to run the engine can be split between two batteries and EITHER battery will support the engine all by itself if needs be. I've got some builders working with various automotive conversions with single fuel injection and/or ignition systems. Dual batteries don't do you any good here. Your properly maintained RG battery is not going to fail. Modern RG Batteries don't fail, they get run past useful service life and wear out. If I were building with this kind of engine setup, I'd run ignition/fuel systems from fusible links right off the hot side of the battery contactor and keep on truck'n Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: adjustable voltage regulator
> >I'm a little confused in all the archives--looking for an adjustable >voltage regulator for the B&C 40 amp alt. Do I really NEED the LR3B(?) or >can I use (which one) a 1975-1994 adjustable Ford regulator (if they >really are) with Bob's dual voltage monitor & notification kit? > >Dave Ford There are a number of adjustable automotive regulators I've seen over the years but if you're not interested in the LR3 the how about the generic Ford VR-166? You'll find that this guy runs 14.2 +/- 0.2 volts as installed and will be just fine as-is. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ELT antennae?
> >I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit behind the >empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting >performance? No >Or > >Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or >Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. They seem to >be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely. Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for aviation would work. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Why breaker for alternator field?
Date: Sep 24, 2002
I'm building a two alternator two battery system, but will use a very small battery for the B&C SD20, regulated with the LR3. I have several questions: 1. Why have a 5 amp breaker for the alternator field? I would prefer a toggle switch and a fuse, sized to twice the maximum explected field current. A fusible link could be used instead, or even a Raychem Polyswitch rated 5 amps such as the RUE500-UD at $0.79 from DigiKey. 2. Each alternator-the SD20 and the Jabiru flywheel mounted PM unit-can put out 20 amps max. Would a 16 gauge fusible link be reasonable rather than an ANL30? Or, parallel two RHE1000-ND 10 amp PolySwitches, each of which trip at 18 amps and cost $1.10 each. I'm afraid the wimpy 5 amp/hr Panasonic sealed lead acid battery might not be able to trip the ANL30, which costs much more anyway. 3. I will be combining the PM alternator connection of Z-13 with the dual bus dual alternator architecture of Z-14, except it will be adjusted to avoid crossfeed during starting, and the crossfeed relay and the aux battery contactor will be small units with 88 ohm coils. Both alternators will have low voltage indicators. On the PM alternator, since it will be used during normal operations, should the output go to the battery side of the main contactor as in Z-12, or to the output side as on all the other diagrams? 4. I will be dividing my loads between the two busses. I suppose that I should divide the essential loads between them, but it would be less confusing to have all the avionics on one bus, lights on the other. The crossfeed relay keeps both busses alive, unless one bus has a short to ground. Divide the essential loads? Thanks, Jim Foerster J400, 50% done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Ground conduit for a pusher
> >As I start to gather the parts for my electrical system, I have heard >that I can use a copper tube for the ground on a pusher plane. I went to >the local hardware store to look at the choices. What would be the >appropriate size copper tubing that I should use? I think that the duct >can handle a 3/4" tube. Does it make a difference if the copper tube is >an "L Blue" or a "M Red " copper tube? Should I cover the outside of the >copper tubing? > >When I attach the neg to the outside of the tube, should I also solder the >connection? I built one conduit ground system into a Long_Ez about 15 years ago for an Army RPV spook airplane project. It WAS useful in reducing noise to minimize the sensitive eavesdropping equipment that was to be in the back seat. I described that ground system in early issues of the 'Connection as attractive both from the noise mitigation perspective -and- the relative ease with which wires could be snaked the length of the airplane during installation. A number of builders have used this technique but reported that it was pretty labor intensive for installation. Further, given that we're not building black-ops machines and given the successful operating history of hundreds of canard pusher aircraft without conduit grounds, I'll recommend you consider a less ambitious approach as described in Figure Z-15 View B. If you're really enamored of the conduit ground, then use the thinnest tube you can find. The thinnest 3/4" diam tube will have a copper cross section equal to or greater than 2AWG wire. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Why breaker for alternator field?
> > >I'm building a two alternator two battery system, but will use a very >small battery for the B&C SD20, regulated with the LR3. I have several >questions: > 1. Why have a 5 amp breaker for the alternator field? I would > prefer a toggle switch and a fuse, sized to twice the maximum explected > field current. A fusible link could be used instead, or even a Raychem > Polyswitch rated 5 amps such as the RUE500-UD at $0.79 from DigiKey. overvoltage protection in the form of crowbar circuits deliberately open the field supply protection. there are situations where ov nuisance tripping can occur when in fact no ov condition exists and until we can built the ultimate, know-it-all ov protection system, this is ONE circuit that I recommend be a circuit breaker and mounted in reach of pilot as illustrated in the switch panel layouts I published earlier this month. fusible links are used when you have a single leadwire to protect where it is VERY unlikely that it will ever see a serious fault and/or where the ultimate in circuit reliablity is needed. You would never use a fusible link upstream of a crowbar module expecting it to be the reacting device in case of ov condition. > 2. Each alternator-the SD20 and the Jabiru flywheel mounted PM > unit-can put out 20 amps max. Would a 16 gauge fusible link be > reasonable rather than an ANL30? Probably, but . . . > Or, parallel two RHE1000-ND 10 amp PolySwitches, each of which trip at > 18 amps and cost $1.10 each. I'm afraid the wimpy 5 amp/hr Panasonic > sealed lead acid battery might not be able to trip the ANL30, which costs > much more anyway. The fusible link is as robust as an ANL limiter. If you don't want to use the ANL then get an inline fuseholder from an automotive parts store that will accommodate the MAXIfuses . . . big brothers to the ATC series fuses that fit our fuseblocks. A 30A maxifuse would be just about right. Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power distribution system fault management. > 3. I will be combining the PM alternator connection of Z-13 with the > dual bus dual alternator architecture of Z-14, except it will be adjusted > to avoid crossfeed during starting, and the crossfeed relay and the aux > battery contactor will be small units with 88 ohm coils. Both > alternators will have low voltage indicators. On the PM alternator, > since it will be used during normal operations, should the output go to > the battery side of the main contactor as in Z-12, or to the output side > as on all the other diagrams? Output side. . . > 4. I will be dividing my loads between the two busses. I suppose > that I should divide the essential loads between them, but it would be > less confusing to have all the avionics on one bus, lights on the > other. The crossfeed relay keeps both busses alive, unless one bus has a > short to ground. Divide the essential loads? I'd treat the second bus as an "essential" bus . . . when you have fully redundant power generation systems with crossfeed capability, you don't need to have an "essential" bus that can be isolated for battery only operations. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring diagram program
> >Does anyone know of a simple wiring diagram program ? I just want to >draw a wiring diagram for a Subaru powered GlaStar and be able to modify >it easily. >Maybe sharewear or something easy to use. I am not teckie, so simple is >the key word. I have a i Mac OS X, if that helps. > >Thanks for the help! >Boyd Blue "simple" usually gets you an equally low grade drawing system. I have several cad programs that are distributed on the CD rom that I sell that will open and use the wiring diagrams and library of symbols used for diagrams already on the CD. These run in Windows. You can get an old '486 machine with something as old as Win3.11 for Workgroups for under $200 to do your wiring diagrams. Frankly, if this is the ONLY thing you'll ever use the cad program for I'd make up all the drawings free-hand, in pencil (page per system drawings). After your project is done, trace them with a fine point Pilot brand ink pen using straight edge. Use pink pearl eraser to clean off the old pencil marks. Fog the pages lightly with clear Krylon spray and you'll have a wire book that is low tech, easy to generate, and will look 1000% more professional than anything you can draw with a computer based illustration program. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Internal regulation
> >I have a 60 amp internal regulated alternator on my 6A. > >I brought 12volts from a 5 amp breaker to the "L" on the alternator. I >have the B lead running back to Bob's 80 amp fuse . >I also have the OV module from the breaker to ground. I have 50 hours on >it now. Why did you choose to wire it this way? >MY RV4 friend just went through melt down on all the instruments & his >radios. >I rewired it for him & I am trying to talk him into the OV module & the >large in line fuss. > >Now my problem is when you start with the breaker pulled, the alternator >is not on line. >If you close the breaker the alternator comes on line & pulling the >breaker will not take it off line. >Therefore, my OV module can not trip the 5amp breaker to shut her down >on a run away. Yup . . . they do that. >I have noticed Bob is recommending a connactor between the alternator & >my 80 inline fuse, which I just bought & will install. Good idea . . . >Why is the internal voltage regulator working without the control >voltage? I think the regulator is getting control voltage from the B >lead. That's how they are designed. The control lead is there only to allow the engine management computer to DELAY turn-on of the alternator until after the engine is running. After the alternator is running, the rest of the car could care less about turning it off . . . hence the latch-on behavior you've noted. We've written and warned about this condition for over 10 years in our published works and on dozens of internet discussions and detailed postings. None the less, the MAJORITY of amateur airplane builders are either unaware of or choose not to take advantage of information that explains how their systems work. Most have no problems and they tend to validate their choices when describing them to others with statements like, "I got a bizillion hours on my system and never had a problem" . . . which is true only because they've spun the wheel and their number simply hasn't hit yet. A few, like your friend, are not so fortunate. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Wire codes
Date: Sep 24, 2002
Is there a listing somewhere that has the different codes explained for wires such as MS22759/16-12, MS27500, etc.? Thanks, Stan Blanton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roberto Giusti" <roby(at)mail.com>
Subject: Wire codes
Date: Sep 24, 2002
Try the following link: http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html You may get more than you need. Roberto Giusti RV8 QB in Italy Wings > Is there a listing somewhere that has the different codes > explained for wires such as MS22759/16-12, MS27500, etc.? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Internal regulation
> >Bob: > >As for the 4 problem, I don't know how it ran as long as it did without >melt down. >The field control was unfussed from the buss through the alternator >switch. then to the B lead. >the B lead ran from the same unfussed buss to a 35 amp breaker ( that is >welded closed) to the B lead. >I have no idea where the two little burned up wires on the voltage >regulator went. >I re wired it with my V166 exteranl voltage regulator. He bought a new 35 >amp b lead breaker. >I told him to buy a 40 amp inline fuse for the b lead & your OV relay to >trip a new 5 amp breaker in the control line. >I also offered to rewire the plane with some fusses. Good idea . . . >The reason I have a internal regulator is it was the only one I could >find that was 60 amp & had 10:30 clocking. >My alternator mechanic said it would work, but after the 4 happning I >realizded my OV sapper with not work. >I am trying to find a wiring diagram for it. I hope to pull a control >line out so it will work Can I disarm ( cut some wires inside) & go get >another VR166 ford regulator to fix it. I don't think I would go inside a perfectly good working alternator just to gain control unless I was really sure about getting it back together. There's nothing inherently evil about a modern automotive alternator as long as we've got a firewall between the alternator and one of the dirty tricks it MIGHT play. Chances are it will do just fine for a very long time . . . but the risk is not zero. >I got my new master contactor yesterday to install in the b lead line in >front of my 80 inline fuse. >I don't see where it will do anything for me. I followed your layout 2 >years ago when I built it. the contactor was not called for then. Back then, the #1 recommendation was to get the alternator modified for use with external regulator. Some time back, B&C used to offer that service. They had to discontinue the practice and there seemed to be few automotive alternator shops that could/would do a good job. Builders were trashing a perfectly good alternator in the attempt to get rid of the internal regulator. Soooo . . . rather that FIGHT with them, I figured that the series contactor was a way to LIVE with them. >Did some phisics law change? I still hope my 80 amp inline is going >before I could turn anything off in 50 milliseconds. The in-line fuse is NOT overvoltage protection. The inline fuse will keep things from getting out of hand should the alternator loose some diodes and become a dead short across your battery. The ONLY ov protection is to devise some means for either (1) killing all field excitation in case of an ov condition (a la LR-3 or VR-166 with external crowbar system) -or- (2) physically disconnecting the alternator's b-lead terminal from the system should an ov condition occur. This puts a highly stressed, power relay in series with the alternator . . . not the best of solutions but hey, we're FAILURE TOLERANT, right? You're more likely to loose that contactor than to have an ov condition . . . but losing the contactor doesn't smoke anything and your nicely maintained RG battery is going get you all the way to Aunt Martha's where the prospect of doing some minor maintenance is no more than an inconvenience. I've been toying with a crowbar ov system that could be used directly on the b-lead output of an alternator. This has to be a smart sensor that absolutely will not nuisance trip. It's proper operation will also depend on the owner operator's willingness to keep a fresh RG battery installed. A really FAT crowbar system will need 700-1000 amps to trip it in a timely manner. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Server back up
My San Diego server got rebooted last Friday and the folks who managed re-establishing the other two server sites on the machine forgot about mine. It's back up now. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Internal regulation
> >Thanks again Bob: > >I thought the 80 amp inline will go when the volts near infinity. Don't >the current go up with the run away volts? Nope. An alternator is very nearly a constant current device even in the runaway mode. Unlike a generator, alternators refuse to burn their own brains bout by overloading them. >anyway, I am going to ask Paul (my altenator man) to open her up. Seems >like all I have to do is move the pin I am using to the fields & bypass >the internal regulator & go get another VR166 . Then that OV relay won't >just be weight. Yeahhhhh . . . BUT. I think you'll probably find that one side of your field winding is attached to the b-lead output terminal or perhaps a third set of diodes in the alternator. This lead needs to get grounded in addition to bringing the other end out of the alternator for an external regulator. Most folks have lost their conversion project with poor craftsmanship/understanding of how this is accomplished without compromising the mechanical integrity of the stock design. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: ELT antennae?
Date: Sep 24, 2002
Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0? - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:38 AM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT antennae? > > > --> > > >--> > > > >I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit > behind the > >empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting > >performance? > > No > > >Or > > > >Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or > >Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. > They seem to > >be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely. > > Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for > aviation would work. > > Bob . . . > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > Search Engine: > http://www.matronics.com/search > =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: ELT antennae?
Ah.... let's see.... two times 121.5 equals.....yes!.....243.0!! This means your quarter-wave antenna on 121.5 will work fine as a half-wave antenna on 243.0. Sam Buchanan (RV-6) ====================== Larry Bowen wrote: > > > Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0? > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > > Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:38 AM > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT antennae? > > > > > > --> > > > > >--> > > > > > >I have a Pointer 3000 ELT. The antennae is too long to fit > > behind the > > >empennage fairing. Can it be cut 3" shorter without effecting > > >performance? > > > > No > > > > >Or > > > > > >Anyone have a spare ELT antennae they want to sell from the ACK or > > >Ameri-King ELTs? I assume they have a BNC connector too. > > They seem to > > >be shorter / more flexible and fit in the empennage nicely. > > > > Any rubber-duckie antenna from a hand held for > > aviation would work. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: LR3 mounting location?
Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information. Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator. I am building a RV9 (for reference) The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall. However a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go anywhere I like (even forward of the firewall). So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard to reach under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the firewall where it's easy to get to with the cowl open? - Andy Karmy RV9A Seattle WA Wire Wire everywhere... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: ELT antennae?
> >Thanks Bob. That makes sense, even to me, on 121.5. What about 243.0? If you have a multi frequency ELT, you may have to stay with the antenna recommended/supplied with the transmitter. A simple 1/4-wave vertical will accept power when fed at one end with coax but at 2x the frequency, it electrically disappears only to magically reappear as the frequency of interest approaches 3x. A multi-frequency transmitter needs a special antenna. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR3 mounting location?
> >Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information. > >Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator. > >I am building a RV9 (for reference) > >The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall. >However a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go >anywhere I like (even forward of the firewall). > >So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard >to reach under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the >firewall where it's easy to get to with the cowl open? EVERY manufacturer would like for you to pamper their products as much as practical . . . but thousands of these critters are running fine on the firewall just like hundreds of thousands of their cousins in the world of certified antiquity. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2002
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: LR3 mounting location?
I located equipment based on the number of wires that needed to penetrate the firewall. The LR3 voltage regulator has only one wire that needs to go forward to the alternator. The other wires need to connect to the bus/switches. I built a little 4X6 horizontal "shelf" that was mounted to the lower flange of the instrument sub panel (F-7105B). The aft edge of the shelf was screwed to the flange and the forward edge was supported by a brace running up to the upper part of the sub panel. Be sure to locate all fasteners so you can remove them while working under the panel. Use nut plates. The LR3 voltage regulator was mounted to lower side of the shelf and some other equipment that had to be mounted "level" was mounted to the upper side of the shelf. Richard Reynolds, Norfolk VA, RV-6A Andy Karmy wrote: > > Ok, Help I am confused by conflicting information. > > Where's the "best" place to mount my LR3 voltage regulator. > > I am building a RV9 (for reference) > > The B&C instructions say in the cockpit somewhere aft of the firewall. However a search through the archives seems to indicate that it can go anywhere I like (even forward of the firewall). > > So the question is, should it be aft to be cool in the cockpit, but hard to reach under the dash, or should it be high on the forward side of the firewall where it's easy to get to with the cowl open? > > - Andy Karmy > RV9A Seattle WA > Wire Wire everywhere... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: O/V protection again
Hi, Bob. I know the answer to this must be in the Connection somewhere, but I have been unable to find it. Regarding fig. Z-24, O/V protection with an internally regualted alternator: 1. What is the need for the O/V contactor? Can't the Crowbar module just cause the alternator field breaker to pop? Alternators with built in regulators don't get field power through the control wire going into the back . . . there are failure modes INSIDE the alternator that cannot be controlled from outside. Hence the need to physically disconnect the alternator's b-lead from the rest of the airplane. 2. Why is there a fusible link between the buss bar and switch, with the breaker after the switch? Why not just a 5 Amp breaker off the main buss? Because if the main bus is a fuse block -AND- it's remotely mounted for convenience of installation and maintenance then it's also remote to the panel where the 5A breaker needs to go. This puts a longer-than-6-inches hot wire between the fuse block and the breaker that is best protected with a fusible link. Sorry if these are questions you have answered lots of times. I would like to keep the number of contactors to a minimum, and would also like to understand the system. To eliminate the extra contactor, go to an externally regulated alternator. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: O/V protection again
Date: Sep 25, 2002
Bob, That Z11A (duel battery, single alternator) schematic you released a couple of weeks ago is perfect for what I'm doing. Any chance of getting the same in DWG format? John Slade Cozy IV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2002
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net>
Subject: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate?
I've got my Lancair ES panel almost completely planned, but I'm stuck on a couple of points relating to electrical instrumentation and annunciation. I plan a dual alternator (60 and 20 amps), dual battery system with a main bus and an auxiliary bus that carries the essentials. One battery will be small and will not be used for cranking, but I will still have a crossfeed with a S704-1 relay as Mr. Nuckolls has suggested in several posts over the past few months. The same size relay will be used to replace the aux battery contactor in Z-14, per Mr. Nuckolls. I will have a VM-1000, as well as a "backup" volts/amps meter from Electronics International. My rationale for the backup electrical instrumentation is that I can't bear the thought of losing the VM-1000 without a backup, because this would rob me of all engine instruments AND the volts/amps information in an all-electric system. I want to know what's going on with my electrical system if the VM-1000 fails. The choice of EI for the backup was largely cosmetic, as it matches my EI fuel indicator nicely. My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What makes the most sense here? My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or electrical issues? Looking for opinions, Dan Lancair Super ES ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Crossfeed warning light / switch
On Figure Z-14, why is it important to have a Crossfeed warning light? Also, is there any potential harm from having the crossfeed switch on a separate switch from the starter switch (other than the reduction in # of switches? I would like to have all switches OFF in the down position, and ON in the up position. When starting the engine, is there a problem with first closing a Crossfeed switch prior to starting the engine, then pressing the momentary start button, and then turning off the Crossfeed switch after the engine has started (as opposed to the start and Crossfeed being on the same momentary switch as the starter). Is there any harm going to be done for those few seconds that the engine is running, both alternators cranking, and the Crossfeed contact is closed? (I can't see any problem, but I'm to dumb not to ask the question) - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glong2" <glong2(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate?
Date: Sep 25, 2002
Dan: I have the same system as you, dual alternators, regulators and batteries. I opted for two EI voltage/current monitors to supplement the SFS system. I will monitor the bus voltage and alternator currents for each alternator. Because the EI's monitor for under voltage and the B&C regulators trip on over voltage, I am not using additional enunciator lights for electrical functions. Since the SFS system monitors all the other engine parameters, I am not using additional enunciators for anything else. Eugene Long Lancair Super ES glong2(at)netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan O'Brien Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What makes the most sense here? My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or electrical issues? Looking for opinions, Dan Lancair Super ES http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Crossfeed warning light / switch
> >On Figure Z-14, why is it important to have a Crossfeed warning light? It's a non-normal operations function to close the cross-feed. The only reason you close this function continuously is when one of the alternators is dead. Two normally operating alternators have been known to "see-saw" the load between them if they're not specifically tested and shown to work well together. If one observes aberrant behavior on the system, it would be well to have cross-feed closed annunciated for a potential clue as to reason. We do this in bizjets. >Also, is there any potential harm from having the crossfeed switch on a >separate switch from the starter switch (other than the reduction in # of >switches? >I would like to have all switches OFF in the down position, and ON in the up >position. When starting the engine, is there a problem with first closing a >Crossfeed switch prior to starting the engine, then pressing the momentary >start button, and then turning off the Crossfeed switch after the engine has >started (as opposed to the start and Crossfeed being on the same momentary >switch as the starter). Is there any harm going to be done for those few >seconds that the engine is running, both alternators cranking, and the >Crossfeed contact is closed? (I can't see any problem, but I'm to dumb not >to ask the question) No . . . but why not change to a S700-2-50 switch so that you can wire it for OFF-XFEED-(START)? I used the -5 switch in the original drawings because it was less expensive and I'd not located a source for inexpensive -50 switches. See figure Z14 switch panel at http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to
Annunciate? > >I've got my Lancair ES panel almost completely planned, but I'm stuck on a >couple of points relating to electrical instrumentation and >annunciation. I plan a dual alternator (60 and 20 amps), dual battery >system with a main bus and an auxiliary bus that carries the >essentials. One battery will be small and will not be used for cranking, >but I will still have a crossfeed with a S704-1 relay as Mr. Nuckolls has >suggested in several posts over the past few months. The same size relay >will be used to replace the aux battery contactor in Z-14, per Mr. >Nuckolls. I will have a VM-1000, as well as a "backup" volts/amps meter >from Electronics International. My rationale for the backup electrical >instrumentation is that I can't bear the thought of losing the VM-1000 >without a backup, because this would rob me of all engine instruments AND >the volts/amps information in an all-electric system. I want to know >what's going on with my electrical system if the VM-1000 fails. The choice >of EI for the backup was largely cosmetic, as it matches my EI fuel >indicator nicely. > >My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I >will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total >load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a >switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What >makes the most sense here? > >My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator >lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel >pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for >an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already >announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left >part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps >meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a >low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional >indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or >electrical issues? The VM1000 looks at one system at a time. If the VM-1000 fails, you're not going to come spiraling out of the sky trailing smoke. Both regulators have low voltage warning and ov protection so the likelihood that you will have dual failure (vm1000 + something in an alternator system) in any single flight that goes un-annunciated is very remote. I think the VM1000 gets it's voltage sense through the lead that powers the system. If you loose one alternator, the cross feed will be closed so the both indicators read the WHOLE system irrespective of which alternator fails. I'd put the EI system on one alternator and the VM-1000 system on the other and be done with it. I would still hook up the low voltage warning lights for both regulators . . . you already paid for them and they don't take up much room on panel. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate?
Date: Sep 26, 2002
On my SFS equipped panel, I supplemented the included instrumentation from the SFS with a JPI volt/amp meter (mainly because the SFS doesn't/won't display amp draw). I have a dual alt dual bat system planned, so to get away with one JPI, I added three switches. These switches are PRI/AUX, V/I, and BAT/ALT. These will allow me to view the PRI or AUX buss, view V or I on it, and view it from the BAT side of the buss, or from the ALT side. I think this is pretty complete. Not built or tested though. For reference, or if it will help anyone, info on my panel and electrical system design for my Lancair Legacy is at: http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ the .pdf file is a picture of the panel with SFS, etc the .xls file is a circuit listing and amp draw the .dwg file is an AutoCAD drawing of my elec system, based on Bob's Z-14 enjoy, and send me any question, suggestions, comments, etc. --- Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of glong2 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? Dan: I have the same system as you, dual alternators, regulators and batteries. I opted for two EI voltage/current monitors to supplement the SFS system. I will monitor the bus voltage and alternator currents for each alternator. Because the EI's monitor for under voltage and the B&C regulators trip on over voltage, I am not using additional enunciator lights for electrical functions. Since the SFS system monitors all the other engine parameters, I am not using additional enunciators for anything else. Eugene Long Lancair Super ES glong2(at)netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan O'Brien Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the VM-1000, and What to Annunciate? My first question is how I to wire the electrical instrumentation that I will have in this system. Should I wire the VM-1000 to measure the total load from both buses and the EI to monitor either bus as chosen by a switch? Should I wire both units to monitor either bus via switches? What makes the most sense here? My second question concerns whether to wire any additional annunciator lights. My inner self keeps saying "annunciate low voltage and low fuel pressure," which have always struck me as the most critical parameters for an all-electric, hard IFR system. However, the VM-1000 will already announce both conditions with flashing lights, albeit in the lower left part of the panel I have planned. In addition, the back-up volts/amps meter (planned for the bottom row of my main instrument panel) also has a low voltage warning light. Would it be over-kill to put additional indicator lights above the instruments to annunciate fuel pressure and/or electrical issues? Looking for opinions, Dan Lancair Super ES http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com = = = http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: O/V protection again
> >Bob, >That Z11A (duel battery, single alternator) schematic you released a couple >of weeks ago is perfect for what I'm doing. Any chance of getting the same >in DWG format? >John Slade >Cozy IV goto http://216.55.140.222/temp with your browser and right-click on Z11A.dwg to download to your hard drive. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2002
From: Phil Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com>
Subject: Pilot Priority Relay Assy
In some of Bob's wiring examples he shows a "Pilot Priority Relay Assembly" . Does anyone know where I can source this component. Philip Hildebrand, C.E.T. (General Manager) Pritchard Industrial Tel: 204-474-5909 Fax: 204-474-5970 Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com Web: www.pritchardindustrial.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pilot Priority Relay Assy
> > > In some of Bob's wiring examples he shows a "Pilot Priority >Relay Assembly" . Does anyone know where I can source this component. I suggested this feature for dual control trim systems about 5 years ago and so few folks warmed up to the idea, the product was never developed. It shows on some suggested wiring for trim systems . . . I think in a partial AutoCAD drawing for a LancairIVP I published but the hardware never came into being. Suggest you check out the trim governor available from Matronics at: http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us>
Subject: Resistor Orientation
Hi Folks, Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on this. Thanks. Bill Yamokoski ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Subject: Re: Resistor Orientation
From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
No > From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> > Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:39:05 -0400 > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > > Hi Folks, > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just > making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. > It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" > sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the > instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the > end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of > the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor > itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be > oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on > this. > Thanks. > Bill Yamokoski > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Resistor Orientation
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Bill, The stripes only are a code for the resistance value of the resistor, it does not matter what orientation you place it in, it will give the same value both ways... Alex -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Yamokoski Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation Hi Folks, Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on this. Thanks. Bill Yamokoski http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Re: Resistor Orientation
> > > Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a > diode? I appreciate any advice on this. Wow, one of the few electronics questions I can actually answer!!! In a word, no. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Resistor Orientation
Date: Sep 27, 2002
No. Don't forget to set the aux offset and aux scaling factor as provided in the instructions for the fuel pressure sender. I'm using the EIS aux channels for fuel pressure and left/right fuel tank level. Properly calibrated the fuel levels read out in fairly accurate gallon increments. Spend some time understanding and making the initial setting entries into the EIS. It provides a lot of information. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (flying) Vienna, VA -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Yamokoski Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation Hi Folks, Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on this. Thanks. Bill Yamokoski http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Gyros For Sale
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Hi Jerry, Are your Gyros still for sale? Thanks, Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale > > I'm selling my two R.C. Allen 3 1/8" electrical gyros due to my latest panel > redesign. The DG and horizon have both been in service and run regularly > until being removed from my airplane two weeks ago. The DG was purchased on > 9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00. The horizon has the 8 degree panel tilt > adjustment needed for RV's and is placarded as such by the manufacturer. > There is no manufacturer's warranty, although I will warranty each for > thirty days to allow the purchaser to inspect the instruments. Each is > supplied with the required connector, so all one has to do is splice the > power and ground wires. New price for these instruments is over $1,850 each. > I'm asking $1,500.00 each, buyer pays shipping. > > E-mail me for any questions. > > Jerry Carter > RV-8A > 155 hrs > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Voltmeter markings
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Hi Bob and all, I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... Thanks in advance, Gilles Thesee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Compass location and perturbations
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Hi Bob, For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG would be, if we had one. Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? Thanks in advance, Gilles Thesee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 27, 2002
As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to any builder. Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 50% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Compass location and perturbations
How about this? http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html -LB --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote: > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > Hi Bob, > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG > would be, if we had one. > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? > > Thanks in advance, > > Gilles Thesee > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Voltmeter markings
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > >Hi Bob and all, > >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. > >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Batery contactor diode
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. Bob K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Batery contactor diode
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Might use shrink tubing on the leads but the body is an insulator. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com We support Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode > > Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. > > > Bob K > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
> > >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to >any builder. > >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. I thought the website description was fairly complete but okay . . . I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that got hosed when I split the website between two different servers and didn't account for it when the CD got cut. First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This includes all of the articles and product descriptions. There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can easily search for specific words in your word processor or text editor. There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words, about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need to add. AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included. There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit and print my drawings. The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to the CD when you copy it. When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high speed connections can download it directly. If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th full . . . Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 27, 2002
I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring and I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around. What a great system. Love that master toggle too. You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it without your help.) Gary K. Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru Newport, R.I. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Compass location and perturbations
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Larry, Thanks for the input. Nevertheless, we already have the PAI 700 compass. Cheers, Gilles ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Larry Bowen" : Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 21:47 Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations > > How about this? > > http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html > > -LB > > > --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote: > > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL > > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG > > would be, if we had one. > > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. > > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the > > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? > > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Gilles Thesee > > > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Voltmeter markings
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Bob, Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. Gilles ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" : Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 22:18 Objet : AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings > > ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > >Hi Bob and all, > > > >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with > >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). > >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary > >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. > > > >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean > >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... > > > See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf > > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on! P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have time to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read them! William Slaughter RV-8 N492WS in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD > > >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to >any builder. > >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. I thought the website description was fairly complete but okay . . . I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that got hosed when I split the website between two different servers and didn't account for it when the CD got cut. First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This includes all of the articles and product descriptions. There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can easily search for specific words in your word processor or text editor. There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words, about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need to add. AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included. There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit and print my drawings. The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to the CD when you copy it. When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high speed connections can download it directly. If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th full . . . Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Batery contactor diode
> >Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat >shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. Doesn't have to but it doesn't hurt either. See http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg for how we attach a 1N5400 series diode to the continuous duty contactor. Our starter contactors are supplied with a built in diode. If you're particular contactor doesn't have the diode built in, you'll need to add one externally between the "S" terminal (cathod-banded end of diode) and the contactor's mounting base (anode end) of diode. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2002
Subject: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & never loose it . Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com>
Subject: Re: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
Date: Sep 27, 2002
I would as well!!! Britt Jensen ----- Original Message ----- From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! > > > I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to > download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & > never loose it . Chris > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: re: Resistor Orientation
Date: Sep 28, 2002
The reason resistor winds up at Radio Shack is someone put the color code on the wrong end anyway. Regards, Eric M. Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2002
From: davepetrv6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 09/27/02
I also mounted my compass in the panel on an RV6A - it was substantially affected by the electric turn coordinator . To get out of this I wrapped the turn coordinator with Mu (Greek-sounds like mew) Metal which you can get from Aircraft Spruce or one of the compass manufacturers . This eliminated the major problem - there is still some minor problem from the dimmer rheostat which is also close to it. If you can, keep it away from the electric gyros and any electrical device which is liable to generate a magnetic field ----- Original Message ----- From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server" Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 09/27/02 > * > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 09/27/02: 21 > > ____ > From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > Hi Folks, > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on this. > Thanks. > Bill Yamokoski > > ____ > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> > > > No > > > From: "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> > > Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:39:05 -0400 > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. Just > > making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. > > It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of the "Aux" > > sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure sensor) the > > instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is attached to the > > end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. The other end of > > the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor and the monitor > > itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a resistor have to be > > oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I appreciate any advice on > > this. > > Thanks. > > Bill Yamokoski > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____ > From: "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > Bill, > The stripes only are a code for the resistance value of the resistor, it > does not matter what orientation you place it in, it will give the same > value both ways... > > Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > William Yamokoski > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > > > Hi Folks, > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. > Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information > System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of > the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure > sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is > attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. > The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor > and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a > resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I > appreciate any advice on this. > Thanks. > Bill Yamokoski > > ____ > From: richard(at)riley.net > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > > > > > > Does a resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a > > diode? I appreciate any advice on this. > > Wow, one of the few electronics questions I can actually answer!!! > > In a word, no. > > ____ > From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > No. > Don't forget to set the aux offset and aux scaling factor as provided in the > instructions for the fuel pressure sender. > I'm using the EIS aux channels for fuel pressure and left/right fuel tank > level. Properly calibrated the fuel levels read out in fairly accurate > gallon increments. > Spend some time understanding and making the initial setting entries into > the EIS. It provides a lot of information. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (flying) > Vienna, VA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > William Yamokoski > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resistor Orientation > > > > > Hi Folks, > Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm awfully close to first flight. > Just making the final connections on the Grand Rapids Engine Information > System. It has something I haven't dealt with before....when using one of > the "Aux" sensor feeds (in this case I'm using Aux for the fuel pressure > sensor) the instructions call for the use of a resistor. The resistor is > attached to the end of another wire in the harness, an "excitation" wire. > The other end of the resistor then T's into the Aux wire, between the sensor > and the monitor itself. The resistor has color stripes on it. Does a > resistor have to be oriented in a specific direction like a diode? I > appreciate any advice on this. > Thanks. > Bill Yamokoski > > ____ > From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale > > > Hi Jerry, > > Are your Gyros still for sale? > > Thanks, > Ned > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Gyros For Sale > > > > > > > I'm selling my two R.C. Allen 3 1/8" electrical gyros due to my latest > panel > > redesign. The DG and horizon have both been in service and run regularly > > until being removed from my airplane two weeks ago. The DG was purchased > on > > 9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00. The horizon has the 8 degree panel tilt > > adjustment needed for RV's and is placarded as such by the manufacturer. > > There is no manufacturer's warranty, although I will warranty each for > > thirty days to allow the purchaser to inspect the instruments. Each is > > supplied with the required connector, so all one has to do is splice the > > power and ground wires. New price for these instruments is over $1,850 > each. > > I'm asking $1,500.00 each, buyer pays shipping. > > > > E-mail me for any questions. > > > > Jerry Carter > > RV-8A > > 155 hrs > > > > > > > > > > ____ > From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltmeter markings > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > Hi Bob and all, > > I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with > an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). > The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary > switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. > > What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean > green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... > > Thanks in advance, > > Gilles Thesee > > ____ > From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > Hi Bob, > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG > would be, if we had one. > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? > > Thanks in advance, > > Gilles Thesee > > ____ > From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little > promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the > book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments > part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" > that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a > lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to > any builder. > > Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the > capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post > for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just > want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. > Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop > Finish Kit 50% Complete > > ____ > From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations > > > How about this? > > http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html > > -LB > > > --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote: > > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the paneL > > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the DG > > would be, if we had one. > > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. > > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the > > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? > > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Gilles Thesee > > > > ____ > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings > > > ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > >Hi Bob and all, > > > >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus with > >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). > >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary > >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. > > > >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I mean > >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... > > > See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf > > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > ____ > From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode > > > Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. > > > Bob K > > ____ > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > > > > > >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little > >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the > >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments > >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" > >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a > >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to > >any builder. > > > >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the > >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post > >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just > >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. > > I thought the website description was fairly complete > but okay . . . > > I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that > got hosed when I split the website between two different servers > and didn't account for it when the CD got cut. > > First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything > you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your > screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This > includes all of the articles and product descriptions. > > There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can > easily search for specific words in your word processor or > text editor. > > There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and > a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be > modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words, > about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are > symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need > to add. > > AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included. > > There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit > and print my drawings. > > The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended > only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're > free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the > only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to > the CD when you copy it. > > When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file > copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high > speed connections can download it directly. > > If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included > on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th > full . . . > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > ____ > From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode > > > Might use shrink tubing on the leads but the body is an insulator. > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > www.bellanca-championclub.com > We support Aeroncas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode > > > > > > Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat > shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. > > > > > > Bob K > > > > > > > > > > ____ > From: "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring and > I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after > reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all > the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I > stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or > fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around. > What a great system. Love that master toggle too. > > You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a > million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it > without your help.) > > Gary K. > Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru > Newport, R.I. > > ____ > From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > Larry, > > Thanks for the input. > Nevertheless, we already have the PAI 700 compass. > > Cheers, > > Gilles > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De : "Larry Bowen" > : > Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 21:47 > Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Compass location and perturbations > > > > > > How about this? > > > > http://www.nisongermarine.com/3-gcid2.html > > > > -LB > > > > > > --- "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote: > > > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > For space reasons, our vertical card compass will be located on the > paneL > > > Our intention is to install it below the artificial horizon, where the > DG > > > would be, if we had one. > > > Thus our visual scan will remain conventional. > > > But, in this particular location, can this compass be perturbated by the > > > near by gyros or other electrical stuff ? > > > If so, is there any "classical" remedy to the situation ? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > Gilles Thesee > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____ > From: "gilles.thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > Bob, > > Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. > > Gilles > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > : > Envoy : vendredi 27 septembre 2002 22:18 > Objet : AeroElectric-List: Re: Voltmeter markings > > > > > > > ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > > > >Hi Bob and all, > > > > > >I'm devising a wiring with single alternator, two batteries and Ess bus > with > > >an electrically dependent engine (Rotax 914). > > >The voltmeter will indicate the main bus voltage, and with a momentary > > >switch, can switch to the Ess bus voltage. > > > > > >What do you suggest for the markings on the face of this voltmeter ? I > mean > > >green and yellow arcs, safe voltage values, etc... > > > > > > See http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > > > > > ____ > From: "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable > modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on! > P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have time > to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read > them! > > William Slaughter > RV-8 N492WS in progress > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > L. Nuckolls, III > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > > > > > > > >As a major resource to this list I think that Bob should give a little > >promotion of his infamous CD on this list. I have the Version 9 of the > >book, and a few of his products. I am now into the engine and instruments > >part of my RV-9A. I believe that I would benefit greatly from the "stuff" > >that is on the CD, but I don't know what's on it. I believe that it has a > >lot, including drawings, software, spreadsheets, etc., that are useful to > >any builder. > > > >Bob, please give a little merchandising presentation of this CD about the > >capabilities and their benefits. We can either order it or file the post > >for future use, in one place. Ignore the few grumps. The rest of us just > >want good information that gets us closer to that first flight. > > I thought the website description was fairly complete > but okay . . . > > I've just finished editing v 7.0 which fixes some links that > got hosed when I split the website between two different servers > and didn't account for it when the CD got cut. > > First, the CD has a mirror of the website . . . so everything > you might have to download via 56k modem now pops up on your > screen as if you had a fiber optic connection to the server. This > includes all of the articles and product descriptions. > > There are copies of many FARs in .txt format so that you can > easily search for specific words in your word processor or > text editor. > > There are digital copies of all my appendix Z drawings and > a number of wire-book-in-progress drawings that can be > modified to match what you want to do . . . in other words, > about 75% of YOUR wirebook is already drawn and there are > symbol libraries on the CD to assist with what ever you need > to add. > > AC43.13-1B with the latest change is included. > > There are 3 different CAD programs that will open, edit > and print my drawings. > > The best part of the deal is this. The $10 fee is intended > only to offset production costs for the CD . . . you're > free to duplicate and distribute as you see fit . . . the > only thing I would ask is that no modifications are made to > the CD when you copy it. > > When I get the time, I'll upload a compressed .zip file > copy of the CD to the fast server so those who have high > speed connections can download it directly. > > If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included > on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th > full . . . > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > ____ > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batery contactor diode > > > > > >Does the diode for the battery contactor need to be encloded in heat > >shrink tubing? I understand the reason for the starter contactor. > > Doesn't have to but it doesn't hurt either. See > http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg > for how we attach a 1N5400 series diode to the > continuous duty contactor. Our starter contactors > are supplied with a built in diode. If you're > particular contactor doesn't have the diode built > in, you'll need to add one externally between > the "S" terminal (cathod-banded end of diode) > and the contactor's mounting base (anode end) > of diode. > > Bob . . . > > ____ > From: CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! > > > I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to > download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & > never loose it . Chris > > ____ > From: "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! > > > I would as well!!! > > Britt Jensen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bob's CD TOO !!!!! > > > > > > > > I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to > > download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & > > never loose it . Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 28, 2002
>> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power distribution system fault management. << Bob, Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 28, 2002
George, Take a look at this thread. It sums up Bob's position on Poloyfusses pretty well. http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyf use?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... > > > >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power > distribution system fault management. << > > Bob, > > Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using > polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management? > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... -----Original Message----- From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... George, Take a look at this thread. It sums up Bob's position on Poloyfusses pretty well. http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyf use?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... > > > >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power > distribution system fault management. << > > Bob, > > Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using > polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management? > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2002
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
> >Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... Cut and paste the two lines of the URL together ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
In a message dated 9/28/02 7:56:24 PM Central Daylight Time, gwbraly(at)gami.com writes: > Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... Good Evening George, That's funny, I tried it and it worked fine. It is a very long address. Over two full lines, but it worked for me and, as you know, I am a complete computer illiterate! http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfus e?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2002
From: Rick <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
George Braly wrote: > > > Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... Try this. These long URL's can be a pain... hope I got this one right. http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfuse?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Ah... missed the second line. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: richard(at)riley.net [mailto:richard(at)riley.net] Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... > >Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... Cut and paste the two lines of the URL together http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module
Date: Sep 28, 2002
Bob, I am interested in one of the completed modules. Is the indication of low voltage a flashing or steady light? What is meant by "aux battery management"? Dave Ford ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD
> > >Now ready for the direct download, zipped or just in a folder. Our cable >modem is currently running about 2.1 Mbit throughput - bring it on! I got a latest copy of WinZip and tried to create a single file of the CD structure . . . it put all the files into a single .zip file and threw away the directory tree. My old dos based PK zip would preserve directory structures. Maybe the purchased version of WinZip will have this capability to. Need to look over the PkZip products as well. I'll get 'er whipped (hopefully pretty soon). >P.S. I'll gladly pay the $10 either way. Bob, I don't know how you have time >to post all these messages and work too. I barely have enough time to read >them! Could do it if it weren't both fun and useful. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 29, 2002
> If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included > on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th > full . . . How about the archive of this mail list? John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
> >I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring and >I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after >reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all >the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I >stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block or >fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him around. >What a great system. Love that master toggle too. > >You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a >million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it >without your help.) I'm very pleased that you find this activity useful. Spent yesterday at the tandem wing fly-in on the Burlington KS airport. These guys have no factory support. I've never met a more inquisitive and ambitious bunch of builders. They're looking at all kinds of engine options, electrical system options and whatever they decide to do, there are few if any suppliers of bolt-on-and-fly hardware. Got to look over a Jabiru engine installed in a Quickie. The American aircraft engine manufacturer's ought to keep scale models of this engine on everybody's desk to remind them what an aircraft engine CAN be . . . See http://www.jabiru.co.za/engines_pictures.htm http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/3300.html The installation was so much smaller and lighter than contemporary engines in the Quickies that the installer had to move a shorter engine forward under a new cowl to get the CG back in the right place. The end result being enough engine to firewall clearance to make this space attractive as a forward baggage compartment. No castings. EVERYTHING appears to be NC machined from solid hunks of metal. Not only a work of art but a stout and practical alternative to the 1940's technology that heads up the vast majority of US certified aircraft. Yet another example of what can happen when you figure out a way to do it without government's assistance and oversight. Bob . . . >Gary K. >Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru >Newport, R.I. > > Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com>
Subject: lost E-mail
Date: Sep 29, 2002
Bob- Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly- It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of questions about how my loads should be distributed on the main/essential/battery busses. Alex Balic Dallas, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
> > > I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to >download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & >never loose it . Chris I just did a major clean up of the CD to fix some html linking problems that I injected into earlier versions when I split the website between two servers. V7.0 is current and if you order one now at http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AECcatalog.html you'll have the latest and greatest. I'll keep working the .zip issue. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: re: Resistor Orientation
> >The reason resistor winds up at Radio Shack is someone put the color code >on the wrong end anyway. > >Regards, >Eric M. Jones that used to be a common situation years ago. Radio Shack and dozens of other retail suppliers used to gather up factory seconds and production line clean-ups in order to offer serviceable but sometimes less-than- pristine parts. This has become a rare condition 'cause new parts are so inexpensive that it doesn't pay to handle over-runs or seconds a second or third time to get them into distribution. While Radio Shack parts trend toward the bottom end of the new parts spectrum, I find that by-in-large, they are good value for the money and convenience of being able to put your hands on them at 8 o'clock in evening or on Sunday afternoon a few blocks from your house. Lot's of Radio Shack purchases are flying around in RAC flight test aircraft! You do need to apply some judgement when selecting parts at the Shack or similar outlets but I think it's both unfair and inaccurate to suggest that we avoid patronizing these sources in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Magnetic shielding via MU-metal.
> >I also mounted my compass in the panel on an RV6A - it was substantially >affected by the electric turn coordinator . To get out of this I wrapped the >turn coordinator with Mu (Greek-sounds like mew) Metal which you can get >from Aircraft Spruce or one of the compass manufacturers . This eliminated >the major problem - there is still some minor problem from the dimmer >rheostat which is also close to it. If you can, keep it away from the >electric gyros and any electrical device which is liable to generate a >magnetic field Mu-metal is the optimal material for magnetic shielding but it's expensive, rare and not the easiest stuff to work with. Try gutter flashing metal available from lumber yards and big-box stores. Cut a strip width equal to the depth of the instrument and long enough to go around the instrument three times. Coil a cylinder of the strip held loosely with long tye wraps. Slide over the instrument and snug the tye-wraps down. I've used this technique perhaps a dozen times in 30 years with a high probability of successful interference mitigation. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
> > > >> Please ditch the polyfuses. These are NOT suited to aircraft power >distribution system fault management. << > >Bob, > >Could you expound upon the considerations that are the basis for not using >polyfuses in aircraft power distribution system fault management? http://216.55.140.222/articles/expbusad.html http://216.55.140.222/articles/expbuthe.html Here are a couple of pieces I assembled several years ago that include a short dialog with the supplier of the EXP-Bus wherein polyfuses were touted as a major feature favoring use of the product. Aside from Jay's lack of justification for the savings of time, weight or anything else, he wouldn't offer a compelling reason for adding mechanical complexity and committing to a single source, not easily repaired product as replacement for stone-simple, multiple-source, much less expensive and equal- or-better performing alternatives. The consensus I've gathered over more than 20 years of considering (and using polyfuses) is that they have excellent applicability for adding useful levels of protection inside a product that already has an etched circuit board upon which the device can be mounted. There have been no cases I'm aware of where anyone found it attractive to fabricate an etched circuit board based assembly for the sole advantage of replacing and array of fuses or breakers with solid state devices. The self-resetting feature was touted as an "advantage" while it's easy to see where this could be a trouble shooting nightmare for our service technicians in the field. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module > >Bob, > >I am interested in one of the completed modules. Is the indication of low >voltage a flashing or steady light? What is meant by "aux battery management"? > >Dave Ford My post of 9-23 > >In a message dated 9/18/2002 11:35:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > > > If the bus is above 13.0 volts, and the switch is in AUTO position, > > it closes the aux battery contactor. If below 13.0 volts, it opens the > > aux battery contactor (and flashes a low volts warning light). > >Bob, been trying to figure out when I would want to use this feature. It >looks to me that it would provide automatic shutdown of the main buss. While >this may seem like a desireable feature, I could also see where an >uncontrolled shutdown of main buss features would certainly startle a pilot >if causing no other undesirable consequences. Seems to me that a pilot >controlled shutdown of main buss functions would be less exciting. >Also, in my planned configuration (diode fed e-buss from main buss, switched >alternate path from battery buss), I would need to make sure the e-buss was >always hot rather than switched to assure that such an automatic shutdown >would not also interrupt essential e-buss operations. > >Is my take on this correct? No. The AUX battery management module is for the management of the AUX battery only while at the same time, notifying you of the failure of the main alternator by flashing the low volts warning light. Assuming you have two batteries because your engine is electrically dependent, this feature has the task of immediately separating two halves of engine loads onto separate batteries. >What would be the best way to use this feature, and can the auto-shutdown >startle factor be reduced? > >Doug Windhorn At some convenient time after the low volts light begins to flash, you would close the e-bus alternate feed switch and move the main DC power master from BAT+ALT to OFF. This last action would shut down the main distribution bus. You might also choose to shut off half of engine loads on the main battery bus . . . they can always be turned on as needed should you experience the insult of double failure for any given flight. When the airport is in sight and comfortable arrival is assured, you can bring the main DC power master back to BAT position to use the rest of the main battery as needed for approach to landing loads . . . by this time it doesn't matter if the main battery happens to be too far gone to help. If push comes to shove, both main DC master and aux battery masters can be placed in BAT and ON positions to close both contactors and use the sum total of all energy left in order to power anything in the airplane just as you would for normal flight ops except that the alternator is still dead and you're now powering up two contactors. Should this action ever become necessary, it probably means that the batteries were either improperly maintained or undersized for the task. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: re: Resistor Orientation
Date: Sep 29, 2002
Bob, >>in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore.<< Ah... that is a great line. Can I borrow it and change it? "... in deference to over-fertilized aviation folk-lore.<< Regards, George ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com>
Subject: Re: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 29, 2002
>>The consensus I've gathered over more than 20 years of considering (and using polyfuses) is that they have excellent applicability for adding useful levels of protection inside a product that already has an etched circuit board upon which the device can be mounted.<< Ok... no surprises or alligators there. Thanks. Like everything else... a right time and place. Regards, George ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD
> > > If anyone has suggestions for data that could be included > > on this CD, I'm open to suggestions. It's only about 1/6th > > full . . . >How about the archive of this mail list? >John Slade I've considered this . . . problem is that to do a really good job takes a lot of editing to keep the cited material direct and to the point with minimum effort on part of reader to access the information. I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the articles section of my website. Good suggestion . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Resistor Orientation
> > >Bob, > > >>in deference to over-fertilized consumer folk-lore.<< > > > Ah... that is a great line. Can I borrow it and change it? > > "... in deference to over-fertilized aviation folk-lore.<< Ahh ... if the phenomenon were limited only to aviation ... the world would be a better place! Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees
Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus. I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf You may also find the installation instructions for our pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 29, 2002
> >How about the archive of this mail list? > I've considered this . . . problem is that to do a really > good job takes a lot of editing to keep the cited material > direct and to the point with minimum effort on part of reader > to access the information. How about including ONLY you're own posts. You're posts are usually direct and to the point. This might seem to some to be a little egotistical on your part, but I'm in this mail list mainly for you're input. It would be nice if you could edit and clean up the text, but I'd rather have it all than none of it. PC based search engines can do the rest. > I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on > common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the > articles section of my website. Useful, but I'd also like to have the archives on the CD. I missed a few years. I'd buy the CD for this feature alone. Regards, John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD
Date: Sep 29, 2002
What's the advantage over using the existing archives and tools on-line? - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of John Slade > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:28 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Promotion of Bobs CD > > > I am considering a sort of FAQ document that touches on > > common and oft repeated questions that will publish in the > > articles section of my website. > Useful, but I'd also like to have the archives on the CD. I > missed a few years. I'd buy the CD for this feature alone. > > Regards, > John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: VOR indicator problem
I have a question which you may be able to help. I built my RV6 3 years ago and I have a Terra Nav with electronic CDI with the digital OBS display/selector. The usual problem is that the selected course track(3 digits)tend to count down in the early stage of the flight, so I have to repeatedly reset the course numbers to fly the correct interception to center the needle. Once the plane settles in flight (up to 1/2 hr or so) the digits select behave itself again for the whole flight and no longer counts down. It has been suggested that it could be noise interference that is causing this problem. I have tested this without the engine running, and yes the problem doesn't arise. Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem? I have thought of shielding the power input and earth wires to the indicator but think better to bounce this idea from you first. Maybe you can suggest one of your many products to help solve this. Albert, you need to make sure that the noise is coming in through the power leads. I'll suggest that you run the radio and its indicator from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. I usually use a pair of 6v sportsman's lantern batteries in series for a test power source. If the problem goes away, try running just the radio or just the indicator from the dry battery and see if it's still okay. It may be that only one of the gizmos is vulnerable to noise. Also, try turning your alternator OFF while the engine is running to see if the problem goes away. This will help us decide if it's alternator noise or ignition noise. Are you using magnetos? Do you have the p-lead shielded. Have you grounded the p-lead shields ONLY at the engine end? Suggest you join us on the AeroElectric-List which you can subscribe to at: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ This will set you up to listen in and join the conversation (if you wish) on a variety of electrical systems topics and ask your own questions as well! These kinds of problems are best worked where lots of folk can benefit from the investigation, analysis and solution. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- | People are far more willing to pay | | for being amused than for anything else. | | -Thomas Edison- | -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2002
From: Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net>
Subject: Bob's CD TOO !!!!!
Hello Robert, Sunday, September 29, 2002, 8:09:51 AM, you wrote: >> >> >> I too am on a cable modem & would gladly fork over $10 just to >>download that great collection & burn on a CD myself so I can store/copy & >>never loose it . Chris RLNI> I just did a major clean up of the CD to fix some html RLNI> linking problems that I injected into earlier versions RLNI> when I split the website between two servers. RLNI> V7.0 is current and if you order one now at RLNI> http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AECcatalog.html RLNI> you'll have the latest and greatest. RLNI> I'll keep working the .zip issue. RLNI> Bob . . . Bob, A couple of software suggestions for you if you haven't already made a choice. Check-out WinRar (http://www.rarlab.com/). It is a combination program that works with zip, tar, rar, and other compression programs. Works real well and compresses more than most. However, for keeping and delivering a CD ROM on the Internet, you can use the iso format. Your cd burning software should permit you to save the entire contents of the cd into a single iso file. Then, on the other end, us users can do the reverse. The iso file is also condensed and expands directly into cd format. The best cd burning software I've seen is Ahead Software's Nero Burning ROM (http://www.nero.com/en/index.html#root). Hope that these recommendations are helpful. -- Best regards, Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: Resistor Orientation
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Resistor orientation and Radio Shack --Hey, it was just humor....But I was teaching a class recently and demonstrated the orientation of LEDs. A student interrupted and told me his LEDs (that he had just bought from Radio Shack) only worked backwards. On the subject of what to put on Bob's CD Rom-- Perhaps some tools like an easy-to-use CAD program, or the ExpressPCB or Eagle circuit design or the free Orcad program (or both). Readers please suggest. Regards, Eric M. Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Resistor Orientation
> >Resistor orientation and Radio Shack --Hey, it was just humor....But I was >teaching a class recently and demonstrated the orientation of LEDs. A >student interrupted and told me his LEDs (that he had just bought from >Radio Shack) only worked backwards. Forgive me, I didn't pick up on it. Maybe I need to get more sleep! >On the subject of what to put on Bob's CD Rom-- Perhaps some tools like an >easy-to-use CAD program, or the ExpressPCB or Eagle circuit design or the >free Orcad program (or both). Readers please suggest. The CD already has shareware copies of IntelliCAD and TurboCAD. There's also a copy of AutoCADLT version 1.0 . . . the very first and now rather old version of ACAD that would run under windows. Interestingly enough, I find that 99% of everything I need to do with AutoCAD can be accomplished with versions going as far back as DOS release 10! If one used the AutoCAD LT for anything more than managing your wirebook (once you get proficient, you'll find that there are lots of drawing things you can do with it) then I'd recommend that you take an engineering student to lunch and then get him/her to buy you a copy of AcadLT2000 or whatever is being offered at the bookstore. It's generally available for under $200 and is VERY powerful. I will put ExpressPCB on it at the next upgrade. Are there other, similar etched circuit board programs out there? I am only familiar with ExpressPCB. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Downloadable CD
Click on this link or use cut/n/paste to put it into your broswer . . . This will take you to a directory of this name wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 I tested the download and was able to bring down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd like to know how it works for others. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Latimer" <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Downloadable CD
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Worked great for me. Jerry Latimer -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD Click on this link or use cut/n/paste to put it into your broswer . . . This will take you to a directory of this name wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 I tested the download and was able to bring down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd like to know how it works for others. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ...
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com>
If you're sending a long URL to the list, you can help the cut-and-paste-challenged by going to http://tinyurl.com/ first. Paste your long link in, and you'll get a nice short one. The link below was rendered as http://tinyurl.com/1pm3. It is probably best to also include the long link in the mail, for the archives, but the short ones are definitely handy. Alternately, if you use Outlook to read your email, here is an add-in that automagically grabs multi-line URLs, cleans them up, and runs the browser. http://www.cheztabor.com/UrlRunAddIn/ David -----Original Message----- From: Rick [mailto:rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Polyfuse use in aircraft ... George Braly wrote: > > > Thanks Mike. However, I can't open the thread... Try this. These long URL's can be a pain... hope I got this one right. http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=364622?KEYS=polyfuse?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=49?SERIAL=1726462648?SHOWBUTTONS=YES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Bob: I am at work where we have a T3 to the 'net, and I experienced a similar rate, about 230-250 kbps...So it was in the 6 min range for me Regards, Britt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD > > Click on this link or use cut/n/paste > to put it into your broswer . . . > > This will take you to a directory of this name > wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip > > http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 > > I tested the download and was able to bring > down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd > like to know how it works for others. > > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
Date: Sep 30, 2002
I must have a sloooow cable modem in Tampa. It took 20 minutes to download. I was averaging 85Kbps. Bob Kuc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD > > Took 9 approx. min on a cable modem while I did other stuff. > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> > To: > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Downloadable CD > > > > > > > Me too. About 10 minutes via DSL in NC. Thanks. > > > > - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: Michael Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
> > >http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 > >I tested the download and was able to bring >down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd >like to know how it works for others. > Me too, just about, at approx 113 Kbps average with Roadrunner. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD - Mac notes
> > >Click on this link or use cut/n/paste >to put it into your broswer . . . > >This will take you to a directory of this name >wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip > >http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 > >I tested the download and was able to bring >down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd >like to know how it works for others. > > Bob . . . > Bob, I got about 85 kb/s on my cable modem, which is a bit slower than usual, but still a lot faster (and cheaper) than getting it through the mail. Everything seemed to work OK, but there is one strange thing I haven't figured out yet - the "Click Here - How to Use This CD" file wouldn't work with the Mac OS X version of Microsoft Internet Explorer (ver 5.2.2). I tried a whole bunch of other Mac browsers, and they all worked fine. I finally got Internet Explorer to open the file by adding a .html suffix to the end, which is very un-Mac like. So, given that Internet Explorer is the default browser with Macs now, you might want to post a note on the page where you download this file, just to reduce the number of questions you get. Thanks for all the expertise you provide to the OBAM crowd. I found the AEC invaluable when designing the electrical system for my RV-8. Take care, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (cowling, wing tip lights) Ottawa, Canada http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: KA-134 pinout
Date: Sep 30, 2002
I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody help me out? Thanks, Stan Blanton stanb(at)door.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: KA-134 pinout
> >I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody >help me out? > >Thanks, > >Stan Blanton >stanb(at)door.net Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Britt Jensen" <dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com>
Subject: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64? While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack? Thanks, Britt Jensen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
Hello Robert, Monday, September 30, 2002, 7:51:34 AM, you wrote: RLNI> Click on this link or use cut/n/paste RLNI> to put it into your broswer . . . RLNI> This will take you to a directory of this name RLNI> wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip RLNI> http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 RLNI> I tested the download and was able to bring RLNI> down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd RLNI> like to know how it works for others. RLNI> Bob . . . RLNI> |-------------------------------------------------------| RLNI> | There is a great difference between knowing and | RLNI> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | RLNI> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | RLNI> |-------------------------------------------------------| This may be getting old, but I did it in a little under 4 minutes at -- Best regards, Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional
value? > > >Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64? > >While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the >need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack? Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KN64.pdf With GPS why would you want DME . . especially since DME and Transponders need to talk to each other to keep from interfering with each other? Isn't there something REALLY useful you could do with that panel space? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Re: KA-134 pinout
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Thanks for the diagram Bob. Stan > > > >I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody > >help me out? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Stan Blanton > >stanb(at)door.net > > > Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
In a message dated 9/30/02 9:07:31 PM Central Daylight Time, dbjensen(at)thebigmouse.com writes: > While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the > need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack? > > Good Evening Britt, I would suggest that you eliminate the DME unless you will have an occasion to fly the aircraft IFR in Europe. Any IFR approved GPS installation can be used anywhere in the US National Airspace System for any DME function. That includes the requirement for DME capability above Flight Level 240 and for the localizer associated DMEs. Check it out in the AIM under 1-1-21. Look specifically at paragraph 1-1-21, 5 and subsequent paragraphs. You might as well save the space, power and weight as long as you have a GPS that is approved for at least enroute operations. The only rub is that to be legal to use the GPS in lieu of ADF and DME, the datacard must be current. Pilot verification, as can be used for most enroute uses, is not allowed for the "In Lieu Of" provision. Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
Britt Jensen wrote: > > Help! Does anyone have pinouts for the KN64? > > While I'm asking DME related questions, does anyone have an opinion on the > need(value?) to add DME to a modern dual Gps/Nav/Com stack? For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required. That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2002
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
In a message dated 9/30/02 10:06:34 PM Central Daylight Time, cozytom(at)mn.rr.com writes: > That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count > as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to. > > It does. Check out 1-1-21, 5 in the AIM. It doesn't even have to be approach approved. Enroute approved is adequate. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Downloadable CD - Mac notes
> >I got about 85 kb/s on my cable modem, which is a bit slower than >usual, but still a lot faster (and cheaper) than getting it through >the mail. Everything seemed to work OK, but there is one strange >thing I haven't figured out yet - the "Click Here - How to Use This >CD" file wouldn't work with the Mac OS X version of Microsoft >Internet Explorer (ver 5.2.2). I tried a whole bunch of other Mac >browsers, and they all worked fine. I finally got Internet Explorer >to open the file by adding a .html suffix to the end, which is very >un-Mac like. So, given that Internet Explorer is the default browser >with Macs now, you might want to post a note on the page where you >download this file, just to reduce the number of questions you get. I'm mystified by this. When I started doing my own .html coding on a WIN3.11 over Dos machine, I had to use three character extensions (.htm) on the PC and remember to convert them to .html after I uploaded them to the website. Having graduated to later versions of Windows that handle larger extensions, all of the browser files already have .html extensions. I'm wondering how it got shortened such that you had to patch it. >Thanks for all the expertise you provide to the OBAM crowd. I found >the AEC invaluable when designing the electrical system for my RV-8. You're most welcome. I'm pleased to be of assistance. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "albert poon" <albertp(at)iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Magneto P leads
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Can someone please enlighten me on the correct method to ground the p leads of the mags. Do you ground both ends, switch and engine ends, or just the engine/mag body end? I am having noise problem at my VOR indicator . Thanks Albert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
Date: Oct 01, 2002
It works also over the Atlantic, just a bit slower, but might depend on the peering of your provider. Did use 20 Minutes to have it here in Switzerland with stable 86.7KByte/s or a line speed of aprox 700Kbits/s (our Internet Connection is 6MB). Now I'm just wondering where to send the 10 Bucks to as I think Bob deserves it for the devoted work he does! Kind regards Werner (Glaster #5794 designing panel) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: KA-134 pinout
Date: Oct 01, 2002
I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm using Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints? Bob RV8 - working on wiring -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: KA-134 pinout > >I'm looking for a pinout diagram for a King KA134 audio panel. Can anybody >help me out? > >Thanks, > >Stan Blanton >stanb(at)door.net Try http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KA134.pdf Bob . . . http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: KA-134 pinout
> > I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm using >Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints? Do you have Adobe Acrobat installed? This is a .pdf file that opens with Acrobat. You might try using this link: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp This takes your browser to the directory on the server where all the downloadable files are stored. Right-Click on the KA134.pdf and then tell your browser where you want it stored on your hard drive. After it's been brought down, use Acrobat to open it directly from your hard drive. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Magneto P leads
> > >Can someone please enlighten me on the correct method to ground the p leads >of the mags. Do you ground both ends, switch and engine ends, or just the >engine/mag body end? >I am having noise problem at my VOR indicator . >Thanks >Albert You can download appendix Z from our book at http://216.55.140.222/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf In every case where magneto p-lead wiring is depicted, you will see that the shielded wire is grounded to engine only. The shield is use to PROVIDE a ground for the magneto switch be it toggle or key-type switch. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD
> > >It works also over the Atlantic, just a bit slower, but might depend on the >peering of your provider. > >Did use 20 Minutes to have it here in Switzerland with stable 86.7KByte/s or >a line speed of aprox 700Kbits/s (our Internet Connection is 6MB). > >Now I'm just wondering where to send the 10 Bucks to as I think Bob deserves >it for the devoted work he does! Not a problem . . . but it occurs to me that I may need to move the CD to another system. Given that it's 100MB in size and scheduled to grow, each download is 0.1GB of traffic on the new server. EACH CD access about doubles the daily traffic to the server which we are billed at a $5/GB/Month rate. So each download adds about $.50 to my bill. Not a big deal yet I think. I've been working with a friend of mine in California to build and operate our own server which is now fully operational as of last night. We shared the cost of the hardware (less than $1000) and co-location costs of $35/month. The only additional costs are the traffic fees which will have to be pretty severe before the cost of operating this server begins to approach the cost of hosting fees I've paid in the past. If the CD download traffic becomes real popular, I might move it to a server I have running here in my house on the cable system. It would be a lot slower but still about 50x faster than modem. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com>
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
Date: Oct 01, 2002
> > For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required. > > That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count > as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to. > *** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing the DME may not be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially different from GPS distances. So you need the DME. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: KA-134 pinout
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Worked much better. Thanks! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: KA-134 pinout > > I've tried clicking on the link and all I get is a blank screen. I'm using >Microsoft Internet Explorer. Any hints? Do you have Adobe Acrobat installed? This is a .pdf file that opens with Acrobat. You might try using this link: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp This takes your browser to the directory on the server where all the downloadable files are stored. Right-Click on the KA134.pdf and then tell your browser where you want it stored on your hard drive. After it's been brought down, use Acrobat to open it directly from your hard drive. Bob . . . http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
In a message dated 10/1/02 9:04:57 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry(at)tr2.com writes: > > > *** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing > the DME may not > be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially > different from GPS distances. So you need the DME. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( > Good Morning Jerry, We all know that it almost impossible for any one instructor to be up to date on all aspects of aviation, but your instructor is way off on this one. If you have not seen my earlier posts on this one, check the AIM at 1-1-21, para 5 and subsequent. It is possible that your instructor was telling you that DME distances are from a DME transceiver and not from the Airport Reference Point. That is a true statement. If you call up the GPS distance to an airport, it will give you the distance to the ARP. If an approach shows a DME distance as part of the approach, it will always tell you what transceiver is being used as a basis for that distance. In order to properly use the "GPS in Lieu Of DME" provision, you must take the GPS distance from the DME transceiver location. That is most often at a VOR or VORTAC site. On those occasions when the DME distance is from a transceiver associated with a localizer, there are a couple of ways to get the information. It can be done directly from the database or by a computation based on locating a waypoint along the course that meets certain requirements as spelled out in the AIM. On Garmin or King equipment, the location of the DME transceiver is listed in the database as an intersection. It uses the same identifier as does the DME and Localizer. That is: At Rockford, Illinois, Rwy 1 approach, the identifier for the localizer and DME is IRFD. If you call from the database an intersection named IRFD, you will be getting the distance from the localizer associated DME site. The UPSAT units have a separate page for that same information. There is another method spelled out in the AIM for those of us that don't have Garmin, King or UPSAT units. It takes some digging to find it, but it is there. If you have trouble finding it, contact me directly. There are no uses of the DME in the United States National Airspace System for which an IFR approved GPS cannot be substituted. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: lost E-mail
> > > >Bob- >Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly- >It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of >questions about how my loads should be distributed on the >main/essential/battery busses. > >Alex Balic >Dallas, Texas I looked through the various mail boxes and didn't find it. Sorry. Try re-mailling the question . . . better yet, how about posing it as a question on the AeroElectric-List? Bob. . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value?
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Enroute/terminal or approach GPS is allowed to legally substitute for DME - when the GPS contains the appropriate fixes co-located with the localizer DME. Most GPS's now have these new fixes in their latest database updates. They can also be used for DME arcs off of VOR's as well. There is a difference however in that the GPS gives accurate distance across the ground and does not suffer from the slant range error of DME's. My observation is that DME's aren't always reliable, not nearly as good as GPS. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pinout for KN64 DME- Also functional value? > > > > > For some IFR approaches, DME (or RADAR) is required. > > > > That said, does an IFR approach approved GPS count > > as a DME? Probably not to the FAA, but it ought to. > > > *** I asked my CFII. He told me that on approaches, the station providing > the DME may not > be colocated with the runway. So DME distances can be substantially > different from GPS distances. So you need the DME. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( > jerry(at)tr2.com ) > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com>
Subject: lost E-mail
Date: Oct 01, 2002
I can post it, but it does pertain directly to you, so, I am including it here, I am still new to the AeroElectric list, and I don't have the E-mail address in my book yet. I have been reading the posts though....... Alex Hi Bob! I just wanted to thank you for the great seminar this past weekend, I definitely learned a lot about my systems, and am going to take your advice and go with the fuse blocks. I do have some questions that have come up, and need some clarification as well- 1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150 amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large? they say that they are good for a lot more than their rated capacity (then why not rate them that way?). So then the alt field current is never tripped out to shut off the alternator, just the power coming out of it is prevented from making it to the bus? 2)So, OK, no breakers then, and 3 busses- a battery (always on) bus for things like map light, clock power, radio memory ect... an essential bus that will stay on (with a contactor?)in the event of alt failure to keep the essentials going. a main buss for everything else Thing is, with my overly outfitted panel, I have a lot of circuits- if it is all right , I will list them for you and get your opinion on what bus they should be on....... BATTERY BUS: cabin light map light 12v jack radio memory stereo memory transponder (clock function from the Garmin unit) ESSENTIAL BUS EFIS One (yea- I already sent my deposit- I'll keep my fingers crossed) might not need this one on the essential bus, but it doesn't use too much power) Transponder power Strobes Panel lights alternator field engine gauges ( I'm using electronics international electronic units) Engine control module (doesn't get more essential than that one) Fuel pump Aux fuel pump Pitot Heat GPS COM AND THE REST WX500 sensor JP fuel scan elev. trim Ail. trim elev. AP servo Ail. AP servo Dynon EFIS (has it's own battery backup built in) Gear Pump AUX radiator cooling fans CD/DVD player Nav lights taxi light landing light CDI head NAV Com/ localizer RX Audio panel/marker RX Good thing I have 95 amps available I suppose.......... OH, and could you give me the info on those fancy French contactors- might just spend the $$ if the power looks like it will be close...... Thanks Bob, and I am really looking foreword to using those REALLY nice crimpers that you gave me- I need to order some of those fancy sleeves though- from Digi Key I'm sure..... You have an absolutely great seminar, that should be required attendance for every homebuilder with an electrical system! Sincerely, Alex Balic -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lost E-mail > > > >Bob- >Did you get my e-mail from last week? - It was addressed to you directly- >It was about the great seminar that you had in Camarillo, and a couple of >questions about how my loads should be distributed on the >main/essential/battery busses. > >Alex Balic >Dallas, Texas I looked through the various mail boxes and didn't find it. Sorry. Try re-mailling the question . . . better yet, how about posing it as a question on the AeroElectric-List? Bob. . . http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Contactor Question
Bob, In my starterless, B&C dynamo'ed, day VFR only VariEze, it seems like the standard battery contactor is overkill. They are designed to handle a lot of continuous amps and burn a fair amount of power in the windings. I am considering substituting another relay to do the job. Maybe a power window relay from an early 70's Ford pickup? I think its rated at something like 60A max - I am trying to find its continuous duty rating. The napa-echlin part number echar200. Can you suggest another part number that would be a better choice? Or maybe a rationale for using the standard contactor? It doesn't even need to be that big. The little 1" cube SPDT relays rated at 20A or better would be fine. See our S704-1 at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s704-1 Lots of folks stock relays of this genre' Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | There is a great difference between knowing and | | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: marc cote <marcjcote(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: drawings for genave beta/5000 transponder
good day, I am looking for the drawings or info for the Genave Beta/5000 transponder.I have to identify and replace a burnt component (resistor) also want to test the unit after that. thank-you Marc --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Subject: GPS pilot verification
In a message dated 10/01/2002 2:53:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: <<.....skip....... Pilot verification, as can be used for most enroute uses, is not allowed for the "In Lieu Of" provision. Happy Skies, Old Bob >> 10/01/2002 Hello Old Bob, Would you please write a few words in amplification of the above and also the subject of noncurrrent GPS data cards. Some specific references would be helpful. Many thanks. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM WING
FLY-IN attendees) Bob; The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the "LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source item in the parts list. I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current suppliers. Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc. ? Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees > > Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting > controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable > voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus. > > I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and > posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf > > You may also find the installation instructions for our > pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from > > http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf > > Bob . . . > > |-------------------------------------------------------| > | There is a great difference between knowing and | > | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | > | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | > |-------------------------------------------------------| > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lighting Controller
> >Bob; > >The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per >your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the >"LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source >item in the parts list. Digikey has been a good source for years. See the following links for all three parts ranging from 1.5 to 5.0 amps of control capability. Of course, built as shown, ANY size integrated circuit will be heat-sink limited to about 1A. http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83012&Row=240348 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83558&Row=168503 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=83755&Row=169065 >I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you >know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current >suppliers. These folks also handle the integrated circuit as well as other items used in the design . . . they may even be less expensive than Digikey. . . http://www.alliedelec.com >Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is >there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc. Did I have any copyright tags? Ignore them. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: drawings for genave beta/5000 transponder
> > >good day, > >I am looking for the drawings or info for the Genave Beta/5000 >transponder.I have to identify and replace a burnt component (resistor) >also want to test the unit after that. > >thank-you Good luck my friend. This is a real dinosaur in addition to the fact that the company was famous for lack of robustness in their designs. I looked for Genave data in the library of a couple of local shops about 5 years ago. They'd all pitched their data and no long offered to work on them. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Subject: Re: GPS pilot verification
In a message dated 10/1/02 12:04:03 PM Central Daylight Time, BAKEROCB(at)aol.com writes: > Hello Old Bob, Would you please write a few words in amplification of the > above and also the subject of noncurrrent GPS data cards. Some specific > references would be helpful. Many thanks. > Good Afternoon OC, What can and cannot be done with an expired datacard is fully dependent on the language written in the individual airplane Flight Manual Supplement which is part of the approval. The guidance given the manufacturers by the FAA via AC-20-138, Appendix 2, Section 1, Paragraphs 3 and 4 contains suggested language as follows: 3. IFR en route and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot verifies the currency of the data base or verifies each selected waypoint for accuracy by reference to current approved data. 4. Instrument approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument approach procedures that are retrieved from the GPS equipment data base. The GPS equipment data base must incorporate the current update cycle. Most of the manufacturers have used this, or similar, language in the original installation Approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement which they submitted to the FAA for approval. All subsequent approvals are done via the FAA's local approval option via the Follow-On GPS Equipment Installation procedure as listed in Appendixes 1 and 2. UPSAT managed to get an approval in August of 1997 which contained language for the approach condition similar to that found in the AC in reference to the en route and terminal functions. Not all of the local FSDO inspectors will accept that language in Flight Manual Supplements which are submitted to them for approval. I know of one case where an installer used the UPSAT language for a KLN 89B installation and got it approved. It can go both ways! The generally accepted method of complying with the UPSAT currency verification procedure for approach purposes is to inspect the dates on the current charts against the date on the data card. If the issue date on a Jepp chart, or the Julian date on a C&G chart is before the expiration date of the data card, the card can legally be used for an approach. Remember, this provision is ONLY true if the individual aircraft flight manual has language to allow such usage. Any help? Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: John Rourke <john@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM
WING FLY-IN attendees) I don't think they're that hard to find; but if they are, I've got hundreds (maybe thousands!) in some old inventory, if anyone needs them. TO-220 package, as I recall. -John R Jim Oke wrote: > > Bob; > > The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per > your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the > "LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source > item in the parts list. > > I realize you do not stock such stuff for resale, just wondering what you > know about this item as an industry participant in touch with current > suppliers. > > Realizing this controller to be a proprietary design of AeroElectric Inc. is > there any problem with someone do a one-off copy for personal use only, etc. > ? > > Jim Oke > Winnipeg, MB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Attn: TANDEM WING FLY-IN attendees > > > > > > >>Several folks expressed an interest in DIY lighting >>controllers and other applications calling for an adjustable >>voltage power source to be driven from the 14v Bus. >> >>I have collected info on a dimmer kit we used to offer and >>posted it at http://216.55.140.222/articles/DimmerFab.pdf >> >>You may also find the installation instructions for our >>pre-fabricated dimmers useful which can be downloaded from >> >>http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/lighting/9013-704E.pdf >> >> Bob . . . >> >> |-------------------------------------------------------| >> | There is a great difference between knowing and | >> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and | >> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- | >> |-------------------------------------------------------| >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing Wiring Questions
Bob, I'm getting ready to run the wires through the wings in my F1 Rocket and I had a couple of questions that I hoped you would be willing to answer. Here is the configuration. I have Sportcraft Antennas in my wingtips along with strobes, position lights, landing lights, and a heated pitot tube midpoint. My questions are: 1) Is it okay to run the coax in the tube with the other wires? 2) Should I run the stobe wires with the others (inside the tube) or should I separate it and run it all by itself? 3) Is it necessary to run ground wires back to the fuselage (and subsequently back to the ground block) or can I attach the ground wires to the spar? Will I introduce a noise problem by doing so? Thanks fo much. Randy htp://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lighting Controller
><john@allied-computer.com> > >I don't think they're that hard to find; but if they are, I've got >hundreds (maybe thousands!) in some old inventory, if anyone needs them. >TO-220 package, as I recall. The TO-220 plastic package is available for all three part numbers but it's harder to work with in terms of getting adequate heatsinking. The design I published shows the TO-3 metal package which bolts together quite nicely with the metal parts that make up the heatsink and mounting bracket. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Wiring Questions
> >Bob, > >I'm getting ready to run the wires through the wings in my F1 Rocket >and I had a couple of questions that I hoped you would be willing to >answer. Here is the configuration. I have Sportcraft Antennas in my >wingtips along with strobes, position lights, landing lights, and a >heated pitot tube midpoint. My questions are: > >1) Is it okay to run the coax in the tube with the other wires? You bet. >2) Should I run the stobe wires with the others (inside the tube) or >should I separate it and run it all by itself? they can all run down the same tube. >3) Is it necessary to run ground wires back to the fuselage (and >subsequently back to the ground block) or can I attach the ground wires >to the spar? Will I introduce a noise problem by doing so? No, ground nav lights, pitot heat and landing lights locally to structure. The strobe fixtures should wire only to the shielded wires that come with the installation kit. I've had some builders ADD a ground wire for the black wire and shield at the fixture end of the strobe lamp feeder that CAUSED problems. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: lost E-mail
Hi Bob! I just wanted to thank you for the great seminar this past weekend, I definitely learned a lot about my systems, and am going to take your advice and go with the fuse blocks. I do have some questions that have come up, and need some clarification as well- I'm pleased that you found the experience useful. 1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150 amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large? If you use a FUSE like the JJS/JJN series devices we used to sell, then you need to oversize them to keep from nuisance tripping on the output of an alternator. You can probably pick up a JJN-150 or JJS-150 fuse from a local electrical contractor supply house. Alternatively, the ANL-100 current limiter would also be suited. We have holders for the ANL limiters and I think B&C either has or would get a 100A device for you. Give them a call. they say that they are good for a lot more than their rated capacity (then why not rate them that way?). ANL devices are intended to be used in power distribution bus structures where hard fault currents can be expected to be 10X the rating of the device. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html There are LOTS of different kinds of fuses with different opening characteristics depending on the intended service. I used JJN/JJS fast devices early on because of availability and when B&C started using and stocking them for their product line, it seemed a good idea not to stock two different kinds of parts that could be used for similar tasks. Hence the changeover as the article above will describe. So then the alt field current is never tripped out to shut off the alternator, just the power coming out of it is prevented from making it to the bus? Here's a copy of an earlier post on ov protection for alternators with built in regulators Hi, Bob. I know the answer to this must be in the Connection somewhere, but I have been unable to find it. Regarding fig. Z-24, O/V protection with an internally regualted alternator: 1. What is the need for the O/V contactor? Can't the Crowbar module just cause the alternator field breaker to pop? Alternators with built in regulators don't get field power through the control wire going into the back . . . there are failure modes INSIDE the alternator that cannot be controlled from outside. Hence the need to physically disconnect the alternator's b-lead from the rest of the airplane. 2. Why is there a fusible link between the buss bar and switch, with the breaker after the switch? Why not just a 5 Amp breaker off the main buss? Because if the main bus is a fuse block -AND- it's remotely mounted for convenience of installation and maintenance then it's also remote to the panel where the 5A breaker needs to go. This puts a longer-than-6-inches hot wire between the fuse block and the breaker that is best protected with a fusible link. Sorry if these are questions you have answered lots of times. I would like to keep the number of contactors to a minimum, and would also like to understand the system. To eliminate the extra contactor, go to an externally regulated alternator. -------------------- End of repost ------------------------------ 2)So, OK, no breakers then, and 3 busses- a battery (always on) bus for things like map light, clock power, radio memory ect... an essential bus that will stay on (with a contactor?)in the event of alt failure to keep the essentials going. a main buss for everything else Thing is, with my overly outfitted panel, I have a lot of circuits- if it is all right , I will list them for you and get your opinion on what bus they should be on....... BATTERY BUS: cabin light map light 12v jack radio memory stereo memory transponder (clock function from the Garmin unit) ESSENTIAL BUS EFIS One (yea- I already sent my deposit- I'll keep my fingers crossed) might not need this one on the essential bus, but it doesn't use too much power) Transponder power Strobes Panel lights alternator field - Alternator field is ALWAYS on the MAIN bus. CDI head NAV Com/ localizer RX Audio panel/marker RX engine gauges ( I'm using electronics international electronic units) Why would shutting down the engine guages while en route be a bad thing to do? Engine control module (doesn't get more essential than that one) This guy goes on the battery bus Fuel pump Battery bus Aux fuel pump Battery bus Pitot Heat Main bus GPS COM Everything below on the MAIN bus AND THE REST WX500 sensor JP fuel scan elev. trim Ail. trim elev. AP servo Ail. AP servo Dynon EFIS (has it's own battery backup built in) Gear Pump AUX radiator cooling fans CD/DVD player Nav lights taxi light landing light Your e-bus should be able to get down below 3 amps for the en-route battery only endurance mode. Once you have the airport in sight, bring the main bus back up to use all those other goodies if they're really handy . . . but by then, your comfortable arrival should NOT be an issue even if the battery goes dead. Good thing I have 95 amps available I suppose.......... Thats about 65 amps more than you'll ever need. The biggest full-up IFR load I've ever seen on a homebuilt was 27 Amps. OH, and could you give me the info on those fancy French contactors- might just spend the $$ if the power looks like it will be close...... Dave S. Are you listening in? Who makes those low-holding current contactors? I seem recall that AirTechnics handles them here in town. . . Thanks Bob, and I am really looking foreword to using those REALLY nice crimpers that you gave me- I need to order some of those fancy sleeves though- from Digi Key I'm sure..... You have an absolutely great seminar, that should be required attendance for every homebuilder with an electrical system! Thank you! Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jerry(at)tr2.com
Subject: Re: Lighting Controller (was Attn: TANDEM
Date: Oct 01, 2002
> Jim Oke wrote: > > > > Bob; > > > > The obvious question (for anyone looking to "homebrew" a dimmer system per > > your .pdf document below) would be the current cost and availability of the > > "LM317K" integrated circuit that appears to be the only difficult-to-source > > item in the parts list. *** Piece of cake. Very common chip. RadioShack P/N 276-1778, $1.99. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Annunciator Panel
Bob, Do you have a wiring diagram for an annunciator panel using LED's? Something with a ptt button etc.? Which LED's will be visible in daylight, but dimmable at night? Can you just use a simple pot for the dimmer switch? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "albert poon" <albertp(at)iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magneto P leads
Date: Oct 02, 2002
Bob Thanks for your help on the noise problem in my VOR indicator, I,ll try to solve this problem and advise later Regards Albert > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 09/30/02
Date: Oct 01, 2002
> > Click on this link or use cut/n/paste > to put it into your broswer . . . > > This will take you to a directory of this name > wherein you will see a file called AEC70.zip > > http://216.55.140.222/AEC70 > > I tested the download and was able to bring > down the 100MB file in about 7 minutes. I'd > like to know how it works for others. > > > Bob . . . Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem, too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now, burned onto my own CD! But I too think I'll add $10 to my next AeroElectric parts order to pay Bob for it. It's just too much work to give away. But this way, it's here tonight! I know you say you love it, Bob, but your time's valuable, too! We couldn't buy this kind of information anywhere else. Thanks again, for all of us. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: dual low voltage indicator
Date: Oct 01, 2002
Bob, Is there a circuit that will monitor dual independant busses and indicate low voltage on each buss? I have B&C 40A and SD8. SD8 has of course its own regulator & relay with optional steady light triggered by inactive relay to indicate low voltage (not enough voltage to pull relay?) or aux. alt. off. Don't yet have regulator for B&C alt. I know LR3B will indicate LV but I was wondering if there is a circuit made or a schematic of one that maybe I could put together to monitor 2 busses and give visual indication by flashing light if one or the other gets to a certain level. Dave Ford ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: CD distribution
> > >Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem, >too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now, burned onto my >own CD! > >But I too think I'll add $10 to my next AeroElectric parts order to pay Bob >for it. It's just too much work to give away. But this way, it's here >tonight! > >I know you say you love it, Bob, but your time's valuable, too! We couldn't >buy this kind of information anywhere else. Ron, The BEST thing you could do is help distribute the CD. My best advertising for the revenue side of our activities is the endorsement of our products and services by happy customers. I've spent $thousands$ on various advertisement activities that to the best of my knowledge have yet to produce a single phone call or e-mail . . . much less an order. Further, the advertising dollars did nothing to advance the state of our art and science. If I'd spent that same amount money giving away CD's . . . I could at least claim that the efforts help spread the word as we understand it today. If enthusiastic users give away the same CD's, it can only help encourage others to take advantage of opportunities to raise their level of understanding and we'll all benefit. Bob . . . |--------------------------------------------------------| | "My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there." -C.F. Kettering- | |--------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: B-lead fuse qustion follow-up.
>1) I will be running a single 95 amp rated alternator, dual battery system >in my Velocity with my SVX motor- with the over voltage protection; the >device that I get from you, trips the power fuse on the B lead- is that >correct and not the field breaker? You said that I should probably get a 150 >amp fuse for the B lead- I didn't see one on the B&C web site, but I would >figure that it can be special ordered- would 150 be too large? > > If you use a FUSE like the JJS/JJN series devices we used to sell, > then you need to oversize them to keep from nuisance tripping on the > output of an alternator. You can probably pick up a JJN-150 or > JJS-150 fuse from a local electrical contractor supply house. > > Alternatively, the ANL-100 current limiter would also be suited. > We have holders for the ANL limiters and I think B&C either has > or would get a 100A device for you. Give them a call. Just got a note from Todd at B&C. He says they stock the ANL in an 80A rated device. Given the robust nature of these critters, I think an 80A would be okay for your 95A alternator. I found some ANL100 fuses on Amazon.com for $12.00 each at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Y3RM/summitpost-20/103-6569411-3501455 Did a little more searching and found a smaller alternative to the ANL series fuses. Dubbed the MEGA/SEA series you might consider a fuse holder like this: http://www.bluesea.com/catalog_.pdf/fuseblocks/pg_7.pdf matching fuses are shown a bit further down the same page. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: dual low voltage indicator
> >Bob, > >Is there a circuit that will monitor dual independant busses and indicate >low voltage on each buss? I have B&C 40A and SD8. SD8 has of course its >own regulator & relay with optional steady light triggered by inactive >relay to indicate low voltage (not enough voltage to pull relay?) or aux. >alt. off. > Don't yet have regulator for B&C alt. I know LR3B will indicate LV > but I was wondering if there is a circuit made or a schematic of one that > maybe I could put together to monitor 2 busses and give visual indication > by flashing light if one or the other gets to a certain level. Dave, You could build two of these: http://216.55.140.222/temp/LVW-ABMM.pdf using this diagram http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf and one of these fixtures (or equal) http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Annunciator Panel
> >Bob, > >Do you have a wiring diagram for an annunciator panel using LED's? An annunciator panel is pretty customized to the task. You need some lamps to light up when they get a ground, others that light up when hit with +14V. Still others may need both lead wires to connect to the device that drives them. >Something with a ptt button etc.? If you use LEDs . . .press to test isn't very useful. It's complex to implement and given the life of LEDs, not worth the effort. > Which LED's will be visible in daylight, All the new bright LEDs are capable of sunlight viewability . . . >but dimmable at night? . . . all LEDs are dimmable. > Can you just use a simple pot for the dimmer switch? Yes . . . but since you need to control at least two and sometimes more LED sources for dimming, most systems just use a bright/dim switch. >Any other suggestions? It's not difficult to do but it can be tedious. You first need to define what conditions are to be annunciated and how the power and control is to be supplied to each lamp. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: CD distribution
Date: Oct 02, 2002
> >Just so all you fancy broadband guys know, it worked fine on a 56K modem, > >too! Took about 6-1/2 hrs. , but hey, it's here now, > burned onto my own CD! Beat ya - 5:43 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: TPAS
Date: Oct 03, 2002
I am after opinions on the new TPAS systems (cheap TCAS) what are people using and prices? Ian in Australia - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: KX170B pinout
Date: Oct 02, 2002
Bob, Colud you post a copy of the pinout for a KX170B? Thanks as always, Stan Blanton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: KX170B pinout
> >Bob, > >Colud you post a copy of the pinout for a KX170B? > >Thanks as always, > >Stan Blanton Sure. Click on http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/KX170.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 10/01/02
Date: Oct 02, 2002
> Ron, > > The BEST thing you could do is help distribute the CD. My best > advertising for the revenue side of our activities is the > endorsement of our products and services by happy customers. > I've spent $thousands$ on various advertisement activities > that to the best of my knowledge have yet to produce a single > phone call or e-mail . . . much less an order. Further, the > advertising dollars did nothing to advance the state of our > art and science. > > If I'd spent that same amount money giving away CD's . . . > I could at least claim that the efforts help spread the > word as we understand it today. If enthusiastic users > give away the same CD's, it can only help encourage others > to take advantage of opportunities to raise their level > of understanding and we'll all benefit. > > Bob . . . Well, I can sure do that. But I still think your time is enough for you to be giving away to this extent. I've recommended the book (and loaned my copy) to several folks who are now owners of their own copies, and I will continue to do so. Same now with the CD except I'll just burn some extras and give them away. But I'll make them buy the book if I can! As I have often said, "That's the least I can do ... and that's my goal!" One typical comment upon ordering it was, "How can it be that good when he only charges that much?" I said I couldn't explain it in light of today's commercial culture, but there it is! Few of us will ever be able to say we have helped so many people so much in aviation (or anywhere else). That undoubtedly will be your reward. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: Irene & Dan Goldman <ireneg(at)netvision.net.il>
Subject: Starter circuit voltage drop.
In my motorglider the cranking power of the starter is very weak. I measured a 0.9 V drop between the battery terminal and the starter and 7 volts drop between the starter terminals. I can choose which of the two batteries to use (no alternator) through a small looking switch (on-on type). I suspect a large Voltage drop there. What type/spec of switch to use? the stater is rated at 400 Watts. I do not need to switch batteries ahile the startert is cranking. Dan Goldman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Diagram Z-14 questions
Bob, In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV). In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6" requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this? In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason not to do that? If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close? Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any ramifications? If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp glow? I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. Is the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web site only has ANL40 & ANL 60). What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same? Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?) In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in place of the one drawn (or is it the same)? - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
Jim - Thanks for your list of questions on Z-14. I asked several of the same questions and Bob mentioned that he is working with Lancair to finalize an electrical system for the ES, based on Z-14. When he gets this finished, I suspect that Z-14 may change a bit and most of the questions will be answered. We are going for Z-14 with a 60 amp and 20 amp alternator on three IO-550N in a Lancair ES.. Bob said that the MOV is a device used in place of a diode that he has since decided is not very effective. Thus, Z-14 has the best setup for the diodes. As I understand the schematic, the crossfeed switch is only activated when you go to the mid position of the starter/crossfeed switch. This puts both batteries on line for starting. If you have an alternator failure, I believe that you must move this switch to the crossfeed position. I suppose that you could automatically make the crossfeed work, but the solution seems to me to add quite a bit more complexity and possible failure modes. I'd prefer your LED/warning system and then manually place the switch to crossfeed if necessary. Cheers, John Schroeder Jim Pack wrote: > > Bob, > > In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires ... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD . . .
> > >Well, I can sure do that. But I still think your time is enough for you to >be giving away to this extent. > >I've recommended the book (and loaned my copy) to several folks who are now >owners of their own copies, and I will continue to do so. Same now with the >CD except I'll just burn some extras and give them away. But I'll make them >buy the book if I can! > >As I have often said, "That's the least I can do ... and that's my goal!" then you've "earned" the CD and then some . . . >One typical comment upon ordering it was, "How can it be that good when he >only charges that much?" I said I couldn't explain it in light of today's >commercial culture, but there it is! When the 'Connection is "finished" (meaning the full compliment of chapters have been written) and we switch over to high quality printing that will let me do photographs, the price of the book will probably go up. In the mean time, you guys are helping me write the thing. This is a joint venture between those who have questions and those who have the task of finding answers. >Few of us will ever be able to say we have helped so many people so much in >aviation (or anywhere else). That undoubtedly will be your reward. It's true that I've enjoyed an unique opportunity to blend my experiences and pleasure of finding things out with a business venture that benefits a lot of people. Many folk in our country strive to have their names cast in bronze placards affixed to construction projects financed with other people's money. They add no value aside from having taken unto themselves the power to steal from others. I much prefer to look back 10 or 20 years hence and know that you and I and a few thousand others worked together to add real value to our collective existence at no expense to anyone else. And further, all it really cost us was the time to sit down and discuss those little details of physics that makes it all work. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
> >Bob, > > >In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the >Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the >Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most >people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV). Battery busses should be right next to the battery as should their respective contactors. This is why those leads are flagged as having the shortest practical length. >In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6" >requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this? My mistake . . . >In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one >alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason not >to do that? You will have plenty of warning about alternator failure with low voltage warning lights. Depending on where you are at in the flight, you may choose to do nothing but shut down the failed alternator. It's not necessary to close the cross-feed if you are minutes away from a desirable landing. >If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close? Not the way it's wired now and leaving it manual gives you no more switches to operate than if you had a single alternator single battery system . . . with an essential bus alternate feed switch. >Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any >ramifications? I published that drawing in the temp director on the website a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over in the server switch. Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file. >If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp glow? it's supposed to. >I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. Is >the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web site >only has ANL40 & ANL 60). Hmmmm . . . I thought B&C had 30's to go with the SD-20 alternator. I thought that's what they were shipping with the STC'd kits. >What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? Those turned out to be a not so hot idea. Use diodes as described in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf >Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the >difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with >diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the >functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same? The Lancair schematic is an old drawing and may still have an error in the diode interconnection on the cross-feed contactor that was corrected with Figure Z-14. >Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair >diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?) PTT is used to actively test the ov trip system. The installation instructions with the LR3 should speak to testing this perhaps once a year or at every oil change but NOT by installation of a switch for the purposes of testing each pre-flight. I'd mount push buttons easy to access from the pilot's seat but not necessarily on the panel. If your LR-3 is accessible during routine maintenance, you can leave the buttons out and just install a temporary jumper wire to do the periodic but infrequent active tests. >In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps >for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in >place of the one drawn (or is it the same)? sure. LEDs need to have a series resistor added to set their operating current. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf Also see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html for some alternative mounting suggestions for LEDs Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Low Voltage Warning Light and Aux Battery Management
Module
Date: Oct 02, 2002
> Will have pricing on assembled/tested units early next week. > I expect them to be on the order of $35.00 Any news on these, Bob? I'm ready to order and install one. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Downloadable CD . . .
Amen Bob, you're good people & I wish I could buy ya dinner sometime or something . It's hard to let this thread die when you're so gracious & philanthropic ! I'm not worthy .......Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Starter circuit voltage drop.
> > >In my motorglider the cranking power of the starter is very weak. I >measured a 0.9 V drop between the battery terminal and the starter and 7 >volts drop between the starter terminals. I presume the 0.9 was measured between battery (+) and the starter motor (+) terminals while cranking and that the 7 V measurement was the applied voltage between starter (+) and starter (-). This means that we have accounted for 7.9 volts out of a total of about 12.5 volts. Let's get a measurement of the ground path as well from starter (-) to battery (-) and round it out with a measurement at the battery terminals. USUALLY, a ground path has lower voltage drop than a power path so this means that total wiring drop is about 1.8 volts or less. Given that only 7.0 volts is getting to the motor, I am inclined to predict that your battery terminal voltage is going to be 8.8 volts while cranking . . . about 2 volts lower than it should be. What kind of battery are you using and how old is it. Do you have a voltmeter in the system to KNOW that the bus is running at a proper level to recharge the battery? Let's get the voltage readings for the ground path and battery and answers to questions above so we can proceed further. . . > I can choose which of the two batteries to use (no alternator) through a > small looking switch (on-on type). I suspect a large Voltage drop there. Oops, just got one of my questions answered, you don't have an alternator. What kind of charger are you using and does it regulate to somewhere between 13.8 and 14.5 volts? Do you have a digital camera? Send me a picture of the starter switch. If you SUSPECT a large voltage drop, go measure it and find out for sure. > What type/spec of switch to use? the stater is rated at 400 Watts. I do not > need to switch batteries ahile the startert is cranking. If your starter is a 400W machine, we don't know if this is rated output (about .53 horsepower) or the electrical input power rating which translates to (400W/12V = 33A) about 33 amps input . . . this is a VERY light starter draw so I'll guess that the starter's 400W rating is really output. Given these little critters are hard pressed to run at better than 50% efficient, this raises our current draw to about 66 amps . . . a much more believable figure. If you need 66A for cranking, there are few practical fingers operated switches designed for this task. A contactor like our S701-1 . . . (See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1 ) . . . would be suitble. Why two batteries? What kind? . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: field breaker pops
Bob, If you remember, I've got an RV-6 (now flying) that I followed your recommended wiring with the fuse panels for main and essential busses. I also employ 2 B&C alternators with the 8 amp pad mounted as an auxiliary alternator. Everything has been working fine but now the main alternator field breaker pops after the airplane has been flying for about 15 minutes. If I reset the breaker it will pop again in about a minute or so. Steve, do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it say in cruising flight? If I reset the breaker after the airplane is on the ground and taxiing it will most often stay reset. This has given me the opportunity to use the auxiliary alternator and essential buss setup and it has worked flawlessly. Any ideas why the breaker might be popping? What color wires are on your OV module. If black/red it's an older model that is twitchy on SOME airplanes. It may be that I need to update it for you. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Low power contactor
Date: Oct 02, 2002
Earlier on this list, Bob asked for the source of the low power contactor. It is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the site is harder to navigate. The model that you would want is the EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from onlinecomponents.com , which is one of the distrubutors. Nice unit, but it may need cooling as it is encased in resin. I plan to put the fuse, ANL current limiter, capacitor for cutting noise from the PM alternator, and two regulators for the two alternators all in one aluminum box with some air flow. Jim Foerster ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2002
From: Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > >Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? > Any > >ramifications? > > I published that drawing in the temp director on the website > a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over > in the server switch. > > Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall > downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file. Bob and the group, attached is the jpg of the LED setup with the LR-3 voltage regulator that Bob published earlier. Mike Salzman LNCE Fairfield, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3 Controller
>Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any >ramifications? I published that drawing in the temp director on the website a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over in the server switch. Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file. SEVERAL LISTERS HAVE SENT ME COPIES OF THE MISSING SKETCH. YOU CAN ACCESS IT AT: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/LV_Led.jpg THANKS FOLKS! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Low power contactor
> > >Earlier on this list, Bob asked for the source of the low power >contactor. It is made by Kilovac, which was bought by Tyco-and thus the >site is harder to navigate. The model that you would want is the >EV200AAANA. This is $67.61 from onlinecomponents.com , which is one of >the distrubutors. Nice unit, but it may need cooling as it is encased in >resin. I plan to put the fuse, ANL current limiter, capacitor for cutting >noise from the PM alternator, and two regulators for the two alternators >all in one aluminum box with some air flow. Found this on Kilovac's website at http://www.kilovac.com/general.news.item.asp?id=330 This isn't the device I'd seen earlier but it offers similar characteristics for a lower price. Here's the datasheet on the EV200 http://www.kilovac.com/pdf/kilovac/high.voltage/pdf/ev200.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
Date: Oct 02, 2002
Bob, I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However, the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic. The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change the component values to those that you have already calculated in the accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron. And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part. Jim Foerster ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Subject: Bright-Dim switch
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Bob, I'm trying to figure out the best way to make a bright-dim switch for multiple LED's in my panel driven by different circuits. My initial thought was to run the ground for all the LED's through the toggle such that in the Bright position, it would go directly to ground and in the Dim position, it would go through an additional resistor to dim the LED's. But this of course won't provide consistent results because the amount of voltage drop across the dimming resistor would depend upon how many of the LED circuits were turned On. Wondering if it would work to use a zener diode in place of the resistor to provide a constant voltage drop for consistent dimming regardless of how many LED's are on?? Is there a better or simpler scheme for a Bright/Dim switch that I'm missing? Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D canopy skirts..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Subject: DPDT relay?
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Bob, Have you ever considered offering a DPDT relay in your catalog to complement the SPDT S704-1? You mention on your website that the S704-1 is good for use with flaps and trim systems, but if I understand it correctly, I will need TWO of these relays for the flaps and two for each trim axis (I'm using the coolie hat on the Infinity stick grip for trim). This means for flaps and two trim axis I need 6 relays (at $60), whereas with DPDT relays I could get by with only 3 (and probably less $$) for these functions, right? I know I can get DPDT relays at Radio Shack and other places but I thought I'd ask you first....seems that other folks could use them also and it would be nice to have some with the same kind of connectors that the S704-1 has... Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D canopy skirts.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Jim, Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style Ned http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter > > Bob, > I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However, the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic. > The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change the component values to those that you have already calculated in the accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron. > And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part. > > Jim Foerster > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Jim, Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style Ned http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter > > Bob, > I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However, the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to 15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic. > The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic of fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or change the component values to those that you have already calculated in the accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron. > And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement with a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one side of the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 mv, reading full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo this part of the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part. > > Jim Foerster > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
Date: Oct 03, 2002
> >What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? > > Those turned out to be a not so hot idea. What was the problem with the MOV's? David Swartzendruber Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3 Controller
How would you set up the dimmer switch? Another resistor on a switch? - Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-14 questions - LED indicator for LR3 Controller > > >Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any > >ramifications? > > I published that drawing in the temp director on the website > a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if it got carried over > in the server switch. > > Just checked and it's gone. Does anyone on the List recall > downloading that sketch? It was a hand drawn .jpg file. > > SEVERAL LISTERS HAVE SENT ME COPIES OF THE MISSING > SKETCH. YOU CAN ACCESS IT AT: > http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/LV_Led.jpg > > THANKS FOLKS! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: John Rourke <john@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
They wear out (get consumed). I don't know if that's why Bob had a problem with them, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like them for protecting against spikes in computer equipment - I prefer series power filters. -John David Swartzendruber wrote: > > >>>What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? >> >> Those turned out to be a not so hot idea. > > > > What was the problem with the MOV's? > > David Swartzendruber > Wichita > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: Phil Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com>
Subject: Diagram Z-14 questions
I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pack Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions Bob, In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV). In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6" requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this? In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason not to do that? If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close? Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any ramifications? If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp glow? I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. Is the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web site only has ANL40 & ANL 60). What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same? Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?) In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in place of the one drawn (or is it the same)? - Jim = = = http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Re: Lancair AutoCAD Schematic
I got it off of Bob's Site http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html Scroll down until you see the article, "Down-loadable wiring diagrams in AutoCAD: " That has the AutoCAD Lancair diagram. - Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Hildebrand" <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions > > I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES > and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair > schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax. > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Pack > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diagram Z-14 questions > > > Bob, > > > In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires recommended between the > Battery / Battery Contactor / Battery Bus. Does this mean that the > Battery Bus must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where are most > people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV). > > > In Z-14, The Main battery wire to the Contactor doesn't have the 6" > requirement, but the Aux Battery does. Why is this? > > > In Z-14, Does the Cross-Feed contactor close automatically when one > alternator goes out? If not, can it be made to? Is there any reason > not to do that? > > > If you turn off one alternator, will the Cross-Feed automatically close? > > > Can the Lamp output of the LR-3 module be connected with an LED? Any > ramifications? > > > If you turn off (open) the alternator contactor, will the LR-3 Lamp > glow? > > > I have one 60 amp and one 20 amp B&C alternator using LR-3 regulators. > Is the ANL 40 Current Limiter OK for the 20 amp alternator? (your web > site only has ANL40 & ANL 60). > > > What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? > > > Comparing the Lancair schematic & the Figure Z-14 Schematic, why the > difference in the CrossFeed Contactor setup? One uses an "mov" with > diodes & the other has a different setup of diodes. What is the > functionality of this? Or are they functionally the same? > > > Z-14 doesn't have the LR-3 ptt circuit connected (where the Lancair > diagram does). Why? (If LED is used, is a ptt not required?) > > > In reviewing the Lancair schematic, can a diode be used instead of lamps > for all annunciation purposes? What is the schematic you would use in > place of the one drawn (or is it the same)? > > > - Jim > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Subject: Bob's Philosophy
In a message dated 10/03/2002 2:52:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: ".........skip...... I much prefer to look back 10 or 20 years hence and know that you and I and a few thousand others worked together to add real value to our collective existence at no expense to anyone else. And further, all it really cost us was the time to sit down and discuss those little details of physics that makes it all work. Bob . . ." 10/3/2002 What a superb philosopy. I'm proud to be a very tiny part of it. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <danobrien(at)cox.net>
Subject: Location of bus and contactor for rear-mounted batteries.
Date: Oct 03, 2002
>In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires >recommended between the Battery / Battery Contactor / >Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus >must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where >are most people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV). >>Battery busses should be right next to the battery as >>should their respective contactors. This is why those >>leads are flagged as having the shortest practical >>length. Those of us building the Lancair Super ES are generally stuck with putting the battery in the back of the plane for weight and balance reasons. Where do you recommend putting the battery contactor and battery bus in that situation? What modifications, if any, would you make to Z14? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic
I'm using two MAC Stick grips model G7 and am wondering which relay to use so that both grips can have full control of elevator/aileron trim. Is there a schematic schematic for this? Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the power to the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw a maximum of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also? What relay would be recommended for this? Any schematic available for this application? Thanks, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: DPDT relay?
> >Bob, > >Have you ever considered offering a DPDT relay in your catalog to >complement the SPDT S704-1? You mention on your website that the S704-1 >is good for use with flaps and trim systems, but if I understand it >correctly, I will need TWO of these relays for the flaps and two for each >trim axis (I'm using the coolie hat on the Infinity stick grip for trim). > This means for flaps and two trim axis I need 6 relays (at $60), whereas >with DPDT relays I could get by with only 3 (and probably less $$) for >these functions, right? > >I know I can get DPDT relays at Radio Shack and other places but I >thought I'd ask you first....seems that other folks could use them also >and it would be nice to have some with the same kind of connectors that >the S704-1 has... Why dpdt? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/flaps.pdf The S704-1 a bit of a hog for trim but they have the distinct advantage of using fast-on connections. The diagram shown above will work with any PM motor system and best yet, it puts a dead short across the motor when both relays are relaxed. This has the effect of dynamically braking the motor and minimizes coast. |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Diagram Z-14 questions
> > > > > >What is an "mov"? Where do I get them? > > > > Those turned out to be a not so hot idea. > > >What was the problem with the MOV's? They were originally attractive because they were AC devices and it didn't matter what polarity the leads were connected. The problems were several. (1) harder to find in the lower voltage versions. (2) didn't clamp transients off as well as a diode. (3) they were reputed to allow large contactors to open faster than with diode clamping. I did measurements that were unable to confirm any significant difference. (4) more expensive than diodes. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rewiring the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter
> >Jim, > >Check out the following web page from Westach and you will see at the bottom >of the page they have Bob's gauge from 10 to 15 volts. I spoke to one of >their guys some time ago and they said they could still make the gauge and >it seams the price was quite reasonable. I went ahead and bought the gauge >with the loadmeter kit from Bob to help support his work. Maybe you could >trade your gauge in for Westachs aircraft style > >Ned > >http://www.westach.com/whatsnew.htm Just looked this over and note that they did not duplicate the markings for the instrument they produced for my project. They show a RED arc from 13.0 to 14.5 volts which should be green. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rewiring the Westach dual
ammeter-voltmeter > > >Bob, >I had planned on buying the loadmeter you carried, but this is no longer >offered. I then bought the Westach dual ammeter-voltmeter, which looks >identical in terms of case size and meter position to your unit. However, >the voltmeter reads 7 to 17 volts instead of a more reasonable 10 to >15. I want to redo the meter face with the red, yellow, and green arcs >you suggested recently http://216.55.140.222/temp/MtrFace.pdf. Any >suggestions about opening up the meter? Mine has the usual captured nuts >and it looks like I could carefully drill them out from the back. Not >sure how I would replace them, as rivnuts might break the plastic. > The second question is harder: do you if how I could change the > Westach expanded scale of 7-17 volts to 10-15? Does it use the schematic > of fig.7-18 in the 'Connection? If so, I could either recalibrate, or > change the component values to those that you have already calculated in > the accompaning text. I can hold my own with a soldering iron. Figure 7-18 illustrates the technique for fabricating an expanded scale voltmeter. You would have to re-calculate the resistor values using the techniques cited. > And the ammeter? Reads -30 to zero to +30 amps. I can live with > that. I bought 20 amp shunts for the loadmeter, so how to rejigger the > system to read using the -30-0+30 scale? The ammeter is a 1 ma movement > with a total resistance of 50 ohms. A 25 ohm resistor in series with one > side of the 50 mv 20 amp shunt will convert this to a 30 amp shunt at 75 > mv, reading full scale on this meter at 30 amps. I wouldn't need to redo > this part of the meter face, if I decide not to redo the voltmeter part. If it's a 1 mA movement at 50 ohms, this makes it a 50MV movement for FULL scale deflection. Leaving the instrument centered gives you 25 mV for half scale deflection and indication of 30A. This translates to the equivalent of a 60A shunt for an instrument that runs 50 mv for full deflection. You could trade your 20A shunt for a 60A shunt and the instrument is fine as is. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)globaleyes.net>
Subject: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Hi Bob, I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about 20 years ago!!! Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe, xponder & NavCom. No starter. I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested. Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation" prices? Thanks! Sam Hoskins http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic
Jim, I had dual MAC sticks in my RV-6. You need one relay per stick, but only one speed controller. I followed the MAC instructions that came with the sticks and things worked just fine. However, when I do my F1 Rocket, I will not install trim switches for the passenger. I can't tell you how many times my passenger would rest his/her "stuff" on top of the stick and accidentally activate the trim. If you want to wake up quickly, have your airplane make an uncommanded maneuver on you. I tested my airplane and found that I could land it with full up or down trims although it was a handfull so I realized that the dual trims were not really necessary. With regard to the autopilot, I think Van's sells an electronic component for this. Check out his web store. Randy Pflanzer F1 Rocket #95 http://mywebpages.comcast.net/F1Rocket/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Pack <jpack(at)igs3.com> Date: Thursday, October 3, 2002 11:20 am Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic > > I'm using two MAC Stick grips model G7 and am wondering which > relay to use > so that both grips can have full control of elevator/aileron trim. > > Is there a schematic schematic for this? > > Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the > power to > the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw > a maximum > of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also? > > What relay would be recommended for this? > > Any schematic available for this application? > > Thanks, > Jim > > > _- > =======================================================================_ -= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > _- > =======================================================================_ -= !! NEW !! > _- > =======================================================================_ -= List Related Information > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2000
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: In-line fuse or to the panel?
Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator & the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you run the wire back to the fuse panel? What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it typical to install this? - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: In-line fuse or to the panel?
Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator & the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you run the wire back to the fuse panel? What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it typical to install this? - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glong2" <glong2(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Sam: I just received 2 Panasonic 20 AH RG batteries from Digikey for my ES. They were about $42 each. They are about 2.99 wide, 7.13" long, and 6.58" high, weigh 14.34 lbs each. Since I am putting on an Aerocomposite prop, saving close to 50#, I am mounting my batteries under the copilot's seat. By my calculations the CG should be ok with the new propeller. I will have the batteries installed in a couple of days and can send photo's if you would like. Eugene Long Lancair Super ES glong2(at)netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheap sources for RG batteries? Hi Bob, I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about 20 years ago!!! Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe, xponder & NavCom. No starter. I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested. Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation" prices? Thanks! Sam Hoskins http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system wirebook)
> > > I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES >and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair >schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax. >Thanks The wirebook in progress is part of the CD ROM available at http://www.aeroelectric.com/AEC70/AEC70.zip Keep in mind that this wirebook is a work-in-progress offered as a basis for doing your own document using one of the CAD programs included on the CD_ROM. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "texasquadj(at)prodigy.net" <texasquadj(at)Prodigy.net>
Subject: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Sam, Jeff LeTempt here (the guy with the Dragonfly project from Rolla, MO). I have not ordered one for my plane yet but All Electronics offers a 12V 17AH model for $35.00. The part number is CAT# GC-217 http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=160400&item=GC-2 17&type=store They have all kinds of cool electronic stuff - cheap. I am going to order a couple of the little halagon lights to use as my landing lights for $3.50 each. http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=320150&type=stor e Shipping charge is $6.00 in the Continental US regardless of what you order. You can also request a free printed catalog (basically cartoon drawings). Jeff Original Message: ----------------- From: Sam Hoskins shoskins(at)globaleyes.net Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:06:59 -0500 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheap sources for RG batteries? Hi Bob, I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about 20 years ago!!! Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe, xponder & NavCom. No starter. I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you suggested. Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying "aviation" prices? Thanks! Sam Hoskins http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic, but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement, every one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm. This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your computer with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and others by avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with www.mcaffe.com, www.symantec.com and many more. Kind regards Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch>
Subject: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker
Date: Oct 03, 2002
Werni et al, http://www.mcafee.com/ please ;-) To check your system online I suggest http://housecall.antivirus.com/ - dial-up Internet users can disconnect as soon as the program started scanning your system. -Kurt. PS. Glad if the list master decides to strip MIME attachments or even better allow TEXT only mails. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Subject: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker --> Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic, but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement, every one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm. This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your computer with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and others by avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with www.mcaffe.com, www.symantec.com and many more. Kind regards Werner = = = http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system
wirebook) Bob - Is this the wirebook that you are developing for Lancair for use on the ES (per your note to me awhile back), or will it be a generic one for the IV, IVP, Legacy and the ES? Thanks, John Schroeder > > I am in the process of designing the wiring for my Lancair ES > >and am using Z-14 as a guide. I would like to see the Lancair > >schematic. Where did you get it? Can I get a copy by Email or Fax. > >Thanks >The wirebook in progress is part of the CD ROM available >at http://www.aeroelectric.com/AEC70/AEC70.zip ..... Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu>
Subject: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker
Date: Oct 03, 2002
My Norton Anti-virus captured a bugbear this afternoon. Keep those virus definitions up-to date! William -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Werner Schneider Subject: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker Dear all, I know this is a bit offtopic, but I've received in the last 5 days several mails with attachement, every one was infected with the bugbear mailing worm. This is a pretty new threat (October), please, please update your computer with the newest virus scanner and protect your computer and others by avoiding this nasty things. You can find Virus scanner with www.mcaffe.com, www.symantec.com and many more. Kind regards Werner http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lancair schematic (really Z-14 in page/system
wirebook) > > >Bob - Is this the wirebook that you are developing for Lancair for use >on the ES (per your note to me awhile back), or will it be a generic one >for the IV, IVP, Legacy and the ES? I'm not developing one. About 4-5 years ago, I was offering wirebook services but found myself buried in a backlog of work I'd never dig out of. The downloadables from my website are major component artifacts of that effort. They are a collection of page per system drawings that can be used to assemble your own professional looking document without having to do it all from scratch. I will be working with a builder who wants to do custom wirebooks but it may be some time before we want to dump a Z-14-in-a-Lancair sized task on him. Unless you are already fairly salty with a CAD program that will work with these drawings, I recommend you do not spend any time learning to be a CAD driver. A three-ring binder full of paper, a pink pearl eraser and a fist full of .7mm pencils will let you document and easily revise the technical details of your project as it progresses. One page, one system. After your airplane is flying and you have some time to kill during bad flying weather, convert your hand drawings to CAD drawings. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: In-line fuse or to the panel?
> > >Should the 70amp (or should it be 80 amp?) fuse between the 60amp alternator >& the main battery contactor (and the 30 amp fuse between the 20 amp >alternator & the aux battery contactor) be an In Line fuse? Or should you >run the wire back to the fuse panel? B-leads from alternators need to stay off the panel. This is what's shown on all of our power distribution diagrams. If you use JJN/JJS series fuses for alternator b-lead protection then use an 80A fuse for a 60A alternator. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html and http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fusvsbkr.html If you want to go the ANL current limiter route, the device can be selected for the same size or even a little smaller than the alternator's rated output. >What is the "Transient Suppressor" found on the Lancair Schematic? Is it >typical to install this? It's pink elephant insurance. Used to sell them and at one time, they were a hot item of discussion on the various list servers. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spike.pdf I even included one as part of the loadmeter/voltmeter system I sold a short time back. Bottom line is that I've never been able to capture an electrical gremlin that would be expected to trigger one of these devices. For a time in the late 60's we experimented with various active spike catching circuits on the single engine Cessnas. We came up with some pretty nifty circuits but the bottom line was that even then, we could never identify the existence much less a source of spikes that was worth building a spike catcher for. I don't think I'd bother to include one in a new design. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: SMT MOSFET MODULES
Date: Oct 03, 2002
I am building the following SMT MOSFET devices, epoxy potted into teeny little modules-- 1) Bob's Low Voltage Warning and Aux Battery Module. It is 7/8" X 1 1/4" ( 22 mm X 32 mm) I said I'd make up kits of these, but I have discovered what "Heathkit" did, that the kit is at least as expensive as the assembled device, so for now I must renege and sell modules only. These connect via 1/4" Fastons instead of sub-D9. 2) "PowerLink"-- I also have in testing a MOSFET battery contactor which draws 6 mA and switches 1280 Amps Peak, carries 320 Amps for long enough to start an engine (or discharge a battery) and has a bunch of nice solid state features. This thing is 1" X 2 1/2" X .300" and weighs in at 1/2 Ounce. A better part than the Kilovac contactor. 3) "PowerLink Junior"-- Half of everything of the above with fewer features. THIS would start the motorglider in a pinch. 0.5" X 1.375. 160 Amp. So small it still scares me. 4) I have also designed and built a NON-CROWBAR Over-Voltage Disconnect Module. Several people have asked about this. Upon voltage over 16.0 Volts, back-to-back FETs disconnect the line and light a remote LED. Unit is latched off until reset button is pushed. If reset is held in intentionally, the module stays on. No blown fuses or tripped breakers. It is also 7/8" X 1 1/4". 5) In prototype: "Perfect Cube"-0.5" X 0.5" X 0.5" (has 20 parts!) Uses the very latest solid-state thinking in SSRs. diagnostic outputs, onboard indicator led, .over-current and over-temperature, 35A limit, ESD, reverse battery connection, active clamping, voltage peak clipping, ground loss, load dump, battery disconnection, open load indication, double battery, etc. protection. 1000X longer life than electro-mechanical relays. Intended to interface stick switches especially. 6) Soon to come: Universal Dimmer-Multi-dimmer module with ambient light feedback and several settable "zones". Stay tuned-still adding features. ----------------------------------------- I will still make the AEC 9008 VOR/GPS Relay Indicator Board complete in a flame retardant plastic box if I can get three buyers. (Three is the minimum number of PCBs I can order.). Total to you (USA) $105.00 Shipping included. OR I will share with you my design It goes into a Serpac C10 case which is 2.3" X 3.25" X 0.8". The parts list totals $60. No charge for information. Contact me off-list if you are interested. OR I will sell a complete kit of parts and instructions. (We also need three builders). $85 Shipping included. Contact me off-list if you are interested. Regards, Eric M. Jones Glastar builder (when I get time). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2000
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: CrossFeed Wire / Flap Limit Switch
Sould the wire between the CrossFeed Contactor & The Battery Contactors be less than 6 inches also? What switch do you recommend for a Flap Limit Switch? - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: VS Cams
Date: Oct 04, 2002
There is some talk in the archives about VS mounted video cameras, but I don't see any follow-through. Has anyone actually mounted something like this in their VS or elsewhere on their RV? Might be kinda fun ......... http://www.cctvwholesalers.com/videocameras/pinholecovert/bulletcameras. html - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker
Date: Oct 04, 2002
Hello Kurt, thanks for correcting the typo. And I have to protect Matt, the list IS attachement free, but as today most of the "worms" are using YOUR address book/inbox and by standard several MS mailing programms. And if I wrote in the past a mail for the mailing list and you keept it or have my email address in your address book, the chance is 99.9% that if you catch a virus your computer will try to infect mine (be suspect for ALL DIRECT send mails with attachement)! So please, everybody connected to the Internet using MS operating systems and MS mailing programm you NEED a virus scanner and have to update at least ONCE A WEEK your virus definition! This will cost you around 50 bucks a year, that is nothing compared to an infected computer and the hassel to clean and set it up new (or it is about one hour flying a year). Sorry again for the off topic . Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Many Virus hit, please update your Virus checker > > Werni et al, > > http://www.mcafee.com/ please ;-) > > To check your system online I suggest http://housecall.antivirus.com/ - > dial-up Internet users can disconnect as soon as the program started > scanning your system. > > -Kurt. > > PS. Glad if the list master decides to strip MIME attachments or even > better allow TEXT only mails. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2002
From: John Top <jjtop1(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
>Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? If you live in or near a large enough city to have electronic surplus stores, check em out. 17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00. -- John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
> > >Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? > >If you live in or near a large enough city to have electronic surplus >stores, check em out. > >17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00. Unless you are buying a new battery with a known history, you don't know what the battery's capabilities are without performing a capacity test on it. RG batteries do have an excellent shelf life but it's not infinite. I've seen ads for batteries "removed from service" that are "tested good". These are fine for many applications where the user doesn't really care what the true capacity of the battery is. Unless YOU test them and know what you've got, the few dollars NOT spent is not a savings. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries?
> > > >Hi Bob, > >I really enjoyed your seminar last weekend. I wish I had your book about >20 years ago!!! > >Are there any cheap sources out there for RG battries? > >I have a Quickie Q-200, with the Cessna alternator, nav lights, strobe, >xponder & NavCom. No starter. > >I really lke the idea of deep sixing my battery box, as you >suggested. Where can I find a suitibly sized RG battery without paying >"aviation" prices? > >Thanks! There have been a number of sources cited here on the list for RG batteries. Digikey has Panasonics at: http://info.digikey.com/T023/V5/0897.pdf The LC-X1220P is $41 Allied has PowerSonics at: http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?PreviousCatalog=True&FN=16.pdf The PS12180NB is listed at $49. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to | | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2002
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Virus checkers
> > >Hello Kurt, > >And if I wrote in the past a mail for the mailing list and you keept it or >have my email address in your address book, the chance is 99.9% that if you >catch a virus your computer will try to infect mine (be suspect for ALL


September 18, 2002 - October 04, 2002

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-be