AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bf
October 04, 2002 - October 17, 2002
>DIRECT send mails with attachement)!
>
>So please, everybody connected to the Internet using MS operating systems
>and MS mailing programm you NEED a virus scanner and have to update at least
>ONCE A WEEK your virus definition! This will cost you around 50 bucks a
>year, that is nothing compared to an infected computer and the hassel to
>clean and set it up new (or it is about one hour flying a year).
Grisoft.com has a shareware virus checker that is VERY effective.
Our computers stay logged on 24 hours a day and the AVG system
does a complete scan of our systems every day in the wee hours
of the morning. It updates the virus data automatically too.
If you have a dial-up connection or don't want to leave your
computer on all the time, you can manually update the virus data
at first log-on of the day. It just takes a few seconds.
I get about a dozen attacks a day against nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
AVG catches and quarantines them all. We also use Eudora e-mail
which has not been a popular target for attacks (although the
latest and greatest (Bugbear) does know how to search for e-mail
addresses from Eudora's address book.
I also get another dozen notices per day for mail that was
"undeliverable" due to virus laden attachments. These
are invariably from the mail servers for people I don't even
know and have never communicated with. This means there are
virus propagation programs out there that know how to pretend
they are YOU in hopes that the recipient will unwittingly
launch an attachment that arrives in your name.
Good protection is free, e-mail programs with lower orders of
risk are free and wary policies for the opening of
ANY attachment makes good sense. Your service provider probably
has disk space available to you for the crafting and posting
of your own webpage. Even if you don't need or want a webpage,
it is worth your trouble to learn how to upload files to that
disk space and give others links on how to access it.
I almost never send files as attachments to e-mails. I
prefer to place them on my server and then give the recipient
a link to download it. If anything shows up in your
mailbox with my name on it with an attachment of any kind,
don't open it unless we've communicated about the file in
advance and you KNOW what it contains.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Bright-Dim switch |
FWIW as more LED's illuminate they will dim more and more when run
through a commom dimming resistor. I once put a dimmer on a tachometer
that used 30 LED's for analog as well as 3 seven segment digital LED's.
IIRC what worked well there was a 4049 ? ic that pulsed the supply
current continually at perhaps 100 Hz when the other panel lights were
dimmed (did not have full system voltage). Then one miniature cheap
volume control varied the duty cycle of the power supplying all the
LED's and dimmed them. Total cost of less than $2., the brightness did
not vary depending on how many were lit, and nothing to even get warm.
Don't know if this would lead to any electrical noise problems in an
aircraft.
Ken
> Bob,
>
> I'm trying to figure out the best way to make a bright-dim switch for
> multiple LED's in my panel driven by different circuits. My initial
> thought was to run the ground for all the LED's through the toggle such
> that in the Bright position, it would go directly to ground and in the
> Dim position, it would go through an additional resistor to dim the
> LED's. But this of course won't provide consistent results because the
> amount of voltage drop across the dimming resistor would depend upon how
> many of the LED circuits were turned On.
>
> Wondering if it would work to use a zener diode in place of the resistor
> to provide a constant voltage drop for consistent dimming regardless of
> how many LED's are on?? Is there a better or simpler scheme for a
> Bright/Dim switch that I'm missing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
I just got a 17a.h. battery from MECI
http://www.meci.com/default.asp?mode=getitems&category=618
Part # 140-0094
I plan to use it while building and see if it will crank the engine when the
time comes.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
Hi Folks,
Enough of these complicated problems....time to get back to basics! No one
has asked a beginner question in entirely too long a time. Here's mine.
I have the MicroAir 760 radio, Flightcom intercom, Telex headset in my Subaru-powered
Glastar. With engine off every thing is clear as a bell in the headset.
Turn on the engine and I hear a pronounced clicking sound that gets faster
or slower with engine rpm. The engine has its own computer. A source
wire for engine rpm leads out of the computer and is connected to the Grand Rapids
Engine information system tachometer function. All alternator goodies
are firewall forward except for the 5A circuit breaker for the alternator and
the overvoltage protection module, as per Bob's drawing for overvoltage protection
for internally regulated alternators. Com antenna mounted in vertical
stabilizer, antenna wire is a yellow, "triple-shielded" type supplied with the
airplane kit. People listening to me broadcast say there is pronounced background
noise and that transmission appears to break up. So...any ideas on this?
I greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
>
>I'm using two MAC Stick grips model G7 and am wondering which relay to use
>so that both grips can have full control of elevator/aileron trim.
>
>Is there a schematic schematic for this?
Here is a compendium of pitch trim relay drawings from
various past projects. You can mix/match features shown
in here to get what you need.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/PitchTrim.pdf
Any spdt relay good for 1A or more will work in these
circuits. If you want speed control, one of our dimmers
can be modified to mount a potentiometer for speed control
adjustment or you can use the dimmer drawings published
at http://216.55.140.222/temp/DimFab.pdf to
craft your own speed controller.
>Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the power to
>the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw a maximum
>of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also?
>
>What relay would be recommended for this?
Here's a drawing from a past project that shows
how to take a spring loaded, center off switch
and tie it to a disconnect relay with a latching
circuit to give you push-to-engage, push-to-
disengage action from the stick grip switch.
See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/AP_Disconnect.pdf
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Hi Folks,
> Enough of these complicated problems....time to get back to
> basics! No one has asked a beginner question in entirely too long a
> time. Here's mine.
> I have the MicroAir 760 radio, Flightcom intercom, Telex headset in
> my Subaru-powered Glastar. With engine off every thing is clear as a
> bell in the headset. Turn on the engine and I hear a pronounced
> clicking sound that gets faster or slower with engine rpm. The engine
> has its own computer. A source wire for engine rpm leads out of the
> computer and is connected to the Grand Rapids Engine information system
> tachometer function. All alternator goodies are firewall forward except
> for the 5A circuit breaker for the alternator and the overvoltage
> protection module, as per Bob's drawing for overvoltage protection for
> internally regulated alternators. Com antenna mounted in vertical
> stabilizer, antenna wire is a yellow, "triple-shielded" type supplied
> with the airplane kit. People listening to me broadcast say there is
> pronounced background noise and that transmission appears to break
> up. So...any ideas on this? I greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggest!
Have you reviewed chapter 16 and mapped out a plan of
attack for determining (1) source of noise (2) victim
and (3) propagation mode?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
What is the reason to use the momentary switch [(on) -(on)] and circuitry to
actuate the relay as opposed to a simple [on-off] switch?
- Jim
>
> >Also, each grip will have a switch that I want to disconnect the power to
> >the autopilot servos & control unit. The autopilot & servos draw a
maximum
> >of 5 amps. This will probably need a relay also?
> >
> >What relay would be recommended for this?
>
> Here's a drawing from a past project that shows
> how to take a spring loaded, center off switch
> and tie it to a disconnect relay with a latching
> circuit to give you push-to-engage, push-to-
> disengage action from the stick grip switch.
>
> See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/AP_Disconnect.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Why dpdt? Because you can accomplish the task with one relay instead of two, which
I should think would be both lighter and less expensive. And I believe there
are dpdt relays that use fast-ons.
My question worded a different way would be "why not a dpdt?" Is there a DISadvantage
to making it simpler, lighter and cheaper??
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts...
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: DPDT relay?
>
>Bob,
>
>Have you ever considered offering a DPDT relay in your catalog to
>complement the SPDT S704-1? You mention on your website that the S704-1
>is good for use with flaps and trim systems, but if I understand it
>correctly, I will need TWO of these relays for the flaps and two for each
>trim axis (I'm using the coolie hat on the Infinity stick grip for trim).
> This means for flaps and two trim axis I need 6 relays (at $60), whereas
>with DPDT relays I could get by with only 3 (and probably less $$) for
>these functions, right?
>
>I know I can get DPDT relays at Radio Shack and other places but I
>thought I'd ask you first....seems that other folks could use them also
>and it would be nice to have some with the same kind of connectors that
>the S704-1 has...
Why dpdt? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/flaps.pdf
The S704-1 a bit of a hog for trim but they have the
distinct advantage of using fast-on connections. The
diagram shown above will work with any PM motor system
and best yet, it puts a dead short across the motor when
both relays are relaxed. This has the effect of dynamically
braking the motor and minimizes coast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
>
>What is the reason to use the momentary switch [(on) -(on)] and circuitry to
>actuate the relay as opposed to a simple [on-off] switch?
>
>- Jim
You could do this. I prefer the two position latched-unlatched
configuration. This keeps the a/p from coming ON with aircraft
power if the stick switch were left ON. Further, the momentary
ground for actuation lets you parallel multiple sources
for control. Some builders want a push-it once for disconnect
of all motor driven flight control surfaces . . . so you add
more poles to the relay and let it control pitch and roll trim
power too.
This is the way most bizjets operate. Hitting a Wheel Master
Disconnect button stops all electrically driven surface
motion. If it were my airplane, I'd probably put the
ENGAGE button on the panel and use only a DISENGAGE button
on the stick. I can duplicate the DISENGAGE button on
the other stick.
The momentary two-position latch circuit gives you lots of
options that the simple ON-OFF doesn't.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Group LED dimmer |
Mark,
The sustained brightness from an LED is determined from its DC
rating - there is a maximum given. Thus all your LED lamps are fixed in
maximum brightness by the current flow at prescribed voltage.
However, one can 'fool' the eyes by turning on and off the LED
at a rate (above 30-40 time per second) imperceptible to the human eye. At
the same time the average current flow may be reduced and thus equally to
the LEDs, by reducing the on/off ratio with a timer chip. Jim Weir in
KitPlanes expounded on this a while back. You might want to consult him.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zener diode OV protection for alternators |
I am in the process of the final installation of a Nippon-Dienso(sp?) 60 amp
alternator in my LongEZ. I want to use the poor-man's Zener diode/fuse
combination for my overvoltage protection. Bob Nuckolls has described this
installation. All my Zener knowledge somehow blew out the window when I
retired and I can't decide which way the Zener should go in branched to
ground after the fuse and whether I need to put a resistor in parallel with
it. When I measure the resistance of the Zener, of course, one polarity is
a low resistance and the other polarity is open circuit. Which end should I
connect to the B+ voltage??
This is the only piece of information that is currently keeping me on the
ground.
I presume you're referring to an alternator with a built
in regulator. Adding ov protection to this machine requires
more than a simple shutdown of the control line in an
ov condition. See figure Z-24 of the power distribution
diagrams at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
The zener/fuse ov protection was indeed certified in
some models of Grummans . . . I wouldn't recommend this
technique when it's so easy to do much better. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
If you do use a zener, it MUST be a 1 watt glass device
(1N4745A) and it MUST be used in conjunction with a
real fuse - NOT a circuit breaker.
The banded end of the zener is equal to the yellow lead
of the crowbar ov module depicted in Figure Z-24
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Why dpdt? Because you can accomplish the task with one relay instead of
>two, which I should think would be both lighter and less expensive. And I
>believe there are dpdt relays that use fast-ons.
>
>My question worded a different way would be "why not a dpdt?" Is there a
>DISadvantage to making it simpler, lighter and cheaper??
But does the single relay version put a short across the motor
when you release the run command? Does the single relay version
isolate what might be a very low power command switch from having
to carry motor current?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Location of bus and contactor for rear-mounted |
batteries.
>
> >In Figure Z-14, there are 6" or shorter wires
> >recommended between the Battery / Battery Contactor /
> >Battery Bus. Does this mean that the Battery Bus
> >must be a maximum of 12" from the battery? Where
> >are most people mounting their Battery & Bus (in an RV).
>
> >>Battery busses should be right next to the battery as
> >>should their respective contactors. This is why those
> >>leads are flagged as having the shortest practical
> >>length.
>
>Those of us building the Lancair Super ES are generally stuck with putting
>the battery in the back of the plane for weight and balance
>reasons. Where do you recommend putting the battery contactor and battery
>bus in that situation? What modifications, if any, would you make to Z14?
Battery busses and battery contactors mount as close as
practical to their respective battery.
Not sure what you mean about modifications to Z-14 . . . if
you want to do a single battery installation, then perhaps
figure Z-12 is appropriate. This is the architecture used
in most certified ships that are getting an SD-20 installation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop1(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
> >17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00.
>
> RG batteries do have an excellent shelf life but
> it's not infinite. I've seen ads for batteries
> "removed from service" that are "tested good".
> These are fine for many applications where the
> user doesn't really care what the true capacity
> of the battery is.
The last I saw at that price were new Powersonics.
--
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
Hi Bob -
Where can I download this as a .DWG file. I'd like to add it to my
wirebook for the Lancair ES.
Jim Pack wrote:
> >
> > See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/AP_Disconnect.pdf
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
Hi Bob -
Same with these drawings, could I get them in .DWG files for AutoCad.
Many thanks again,
John Schroeder
> Here is a compendium of pitch trim relay drawings from
> various past projects. You can mix/match features shown
> in here to get what you need.
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/PitchTrim.pdf
>
> Any spdt relay good for 1A or more will work in these
> circuits.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Location of bus and contactor for rear-mounted |
batteries
>Battery busses should be right next to the battery as
>should their respective contactors. This is why those
>leads are flagged as having the shortest practical
>length.
>
>>Those of us building the Lancair Super ES are generally stuck with
>>putting the battery in the back of the plane for weight and balance
>>reasons. Where do you recommend putting the battery contactor and
>>battery bus in that situation? What modifications, if any, would you
>>make to Z14?
> Battery busses and battery contactors mount as close as
> practical to their respective battery.
> Not sure what you mean about modifications to Z-14 . . . if
> you want to do a single battery installation, then perhaps
> figure Z-12 is appropriate. This is the architecture used
> in most certified ships that are getting an SD-20 installation.
> Bob . . .
I'm actually doing a dual battery with one large and one small battery (Z14
with the S704-1s for small battery contactor and crossfeed). The large
battery must go in the back, while the small battery will go up front. Are
you suggesting that the battery contactor and bus for the large battery
should go in back by the large battery? Following Z14, that would mean
running three fat wires from back to front (wires from contactor to
crossfeed, and battery to ground) instead of two fat wires if the contactor
were in front. It also means running all wires off the large battery bus
from back to front. Is that the recommended course? Or should I just run
two fat wires from the battery in back to its contactor and ground in the
front.
Need help here. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
>
> > >17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00.
> >
> > RG batteries do have an excellent shelf life but
> > it's not infinite. I've seen ads for batteries
> > "removed from service" that are "tested good".
> > These are fine for many applications where the
> > user doesn't really care what the true capacity
> > of the battery is.
>
>The last I saw at that price were new Powersonics.
That's a bargain. That's basically an out-the-door-
of-the-factory price.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim & autopilot Relay / Schematic |
>
>
>Hi Bob -
>
>Same with these drawings, could I get them in .DWG files for AutoCad.
>
>Many thanks again,
Go get http://216.55.140.222/temp/pitchtrim.zip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap sources for RG batteries? |
At 08:13 PM 10/4/2002Robert L. Nuckolls, III sez:
>
>
> >
> > > >17 AH RGs usually run about $15.00.
> > >
> > > RG batteries do have an excellent shelf life but
> > > it's not infinite. I've seen ads for batteries
> > > "removed from service" that are "tested good".
> > > These are fine for many applications where the
> > > user doesn't really care what the true capacity
> > > of the battery is.
> >
> >The last I saw at that price were new Powersonics.
>
> That's a bargain. That's basically an out-the-door-
> of-the-factory price.
>
> Bob . . .
I posted my research on pricing I did a couple months ago. $49.95 includes
shipping from Les Schwab. 5 year warranty. Schwab is one of the best if not
the best place to get tires, batteries and brakes in the West.
So considering Bob's plan of discarding these batteries every two years,
you'd get 60% prorated credit on the next battery so that makes these $20
for two years. Provided they aren't still good in two years. I posted this
info. Bob added more on other models but my research was done with the
specs that Bob published for size, weight and current.
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:03:32 -0700
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wheelchair Battery ?
Status:
At 11:51 AM 8/18/2002Robert L. Nuckolls, III sez:
> Did a little poking around on the 'net . . . the ES18-12
> didn't sound like a Sonnenschein part number (Bill used to
> handle a Sonnenschein Gel-Cell and we had some occasion to
> tippy-toe through the Sonnenschein catalogs).
The Les Scwab buyer (there's only one) looked this up in his catalog. He
faxed me the page of photos for the Sonnenschein Batteries. Each battery in
the photos has the name "Powerfit" clearly written in raised letters on the
case. Can't see what the small writing says though. I posted this fax
<http://www.eucleides.com/fax00005.tif>.
You can phone Jamie at Schwab HQ (514)416-5132 and talk to him as I did. He
said this was a Sonnenschein battery.
> A search
> on ES18-12 seems to attribute this part number to a company
> called "Global". Here's a website in the UK that illustrates
> the ES18-12 as a direct replacement for several other brands:
>
>http://www.upssystems.uk.com/acatalog/The_UPS_Store_High_Quality_Pattern_Replacements_2.html
>
> Did a search on Global and ES18-12 and got only 6 hits
> NONE of which revealed to me who "Global" is . . .
I did some searching too and it looks like Global and Yuasa are synonyms.
<http://www.vds.de/en/daten/verzeichnisse/pest/pest1107414c0.htm#7381>
They have an ES 18-12. One branded Rocket and the other branded Global.
> I suspect this is a re-branded battery. This is not
> to suggest that it's a "bad" battery . . . lots
> of perfectly reputable folks buy good stuff from other
> folks and re-brand it (not the least of which are my
> friends up in Newton, KS).
Look at this nice book of specs for Powerfit batteries.
<http://www.exidenetworkpower.co.uk/mainpages/downloads.html>
Looks like it might also be an Exide battery. But I see that the Powerfit
ES18-12 photo from the fax I was sent has the Sonnenshein rising sun symbol
just as do all other Sonnenshein batteries have in the upper left corner.
> So, the battery you have discovered is indeed a member
> of a family of batteries of this size and price class
> that is equivalent to Sonnenschein F312/15.0GH5; A512/16.0G5
> RS Dryfit 595-081; Powersonic PS12170; Panasonic LCR12V17CP;
> LCR1215P(a); Hitachi HP15-12; Global ES18-12; Fulmen 12015;
> Fiamm FG21803 and undoubtedly others.
Paul Franz
PAF Consulting Engineers | 427 - 140th Ave NE
(425)641-8202 voice | Bellevue, WA 98005
(425)641-1773 fax |
<http://blackdog.bellevue.wa.us/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Location of bus and contactor for rear-mounted |
batteries
>
> >Battery busses should be right next to the battery as
> >should their respective contactors. This is why those
> >leads are flagged as having the shortest practical
> >length.
> >
> >>Those of us building the Lancair Super ES are generally stuck with
> >>putting the battery in the back of the plane for weight and balance
> >>reasons. Where do you recommend putting the battery contactor and
> >>battery bus in that situation? What modifications, if any, would you
> >>make to Z14?
>
> > Battery busses and battery contactors mount as close as
> > practical to their respective battery.
>
> > Not sure what you mean about modifications to Z-14 . . . if
> > you want to do a single battery installation, then perhaps
> > figure Z-12 is appropriate. This is the architecture used
> > in most certified ships that are getting an SD-20 installation.
>
> > Bob . . .
>
>I'm actually doing a dual battery with one large and one small battery (Z14
>with the S704-1s for small battery contactor and crossfeed). The large
>battery must go in the back, while the small battery will go up front. Are
>you suggesting that the battery contactor and bus for the large battery
>should go in back by the large battery? Following Z14, that would mean
>running three fat wires from back to front (wires from contactor to
>crossfeed, and battery to ground) instead of two fat wires if the contactor
>were in front.
The crossfeed contactor can be anywhere most convenient wiring.
This is often on the firewall 'cause both your main bus,
aux bus and starter contactors can use handy places to grab
a fatwire feed. Battery contactors are next to batteries
and battery busses are next to batteries.
> It also means running all wires off the large battery bus
>from back to front.
Yes. How many are there? Battery busses seldom have more than
4-5 feeds and they're small wires. This leaves you two fat
wires + feeds going to the back.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
I have a Motorolla Satellite Phone 9505 that I want to Wire up a Hands
free interface to the headset.
The phone has a 3 connector plug for a personal hands free. Mike,
earphone and a common ground I assume.
How easy would it be to wire a plug that would let me plug in the
headset.
Is there any special thing that I need to do re Impedances?
Any other hints
Thanks Bob.
Ian
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Goto
http://store.summitracing.com
and search on SUM-G1432
This switch sells for $20 and is sufficiently rated
to serve as a battery disconnect switch in a light
aircraft.
I've had several builders replace the finger operated
lever on similar switches with a belcrank arm. An auto parts
choke/throttle control kit was adapted to the bell crank
and mounted on the panel to provide a push-pull master battery
switch. This is especially suited to airplanes with small
or no alternator where you don't want to throw away an amp of
keep-closed power and also don't want to buy the much more
expensive, low-holding current contactors.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Yes, the single DPDT relay version will isolate a very low power command
switch from having to carry motor current, just like the two SPDT relay
version. No, it will not put a short across the motor when you release
the switch. I suppose for applications that benefit from this, the
two-relay version would be the way to go. But for my RV setup, the only
thing that would be sensitive enough to matter would be pitch trim, and
I'm using a flap-activated microswitch to source power from a speed
reducer to slow down the trim motor considerably when flaps are up....so
I really doubt it would make any observable difference in my setup.
There are some people using a Radio Shack DPDT relay (#275-218 for $7.99
with socket #275-220 for $2.49) to accomplish flap and trim functions
with a single relay for each motor. Contacts rated 15 A @ 125 VAC.
Someone put a schematic online and I printed it out but lost the link to
it. The main thing I don't like about it is that I don't think this
Radio Shack relay uses Fast-on connectors...the base has solder tabs
which might accept Fast-ons but it still makes mounting more difficult
compared to a relay with a flange that accepts two screws.... Bob do you
know if the supplier that you get your SPDT relay from might have a DPDT
relay that uses Fast-ons? I'll check my Mouser and Digikey catalogs and
let you know if I find something....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts...
_______
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: DPDT relay?
>
>Why dpdt? Because you can accomplish the task with one relay instead of
>two, which I should think would be both lighter and less expensive. And
I
>believe there are dpdt relays that use fast-ons.
>
>My question worded a different way would be "why not a dpdt?" Is there
a
>DISadvantage to making it simpler, lighter and cheaper??
But does the single relay version put a short across the motor
when you release the run command? Does the single relay version
isolate what might be a very low power command switch from having
to carry motor current?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Two Speed Trim Servo |
Bob,
How would I wire a SPST grip mounted [on-on] switch to switch between a fast
and a slow elevator trim speed using the Matronics Gov MkIII and the MAC
Trim Servo?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Two Speed Trim Servo |
Sorry, there are a couple of optional switches:
SPDT [on-on]
SPDT [on-off-on]
SPDT [(on)-off-(on)]
So, restated, how would I wire one of the above switches in the G207 grip to
switch between a fast and a slow elevator trim speed using the Matronics Gov
MkIII and the MAC Trim Servo?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
I've got a set-up that uses a pair of radio shack relays and a switch to
detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed whenever
my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
the mac servo.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
> Sorry, there are a couple of optional switches:
>
> SPDT [on-on]
> SPDT [on-off-on]
> SPDT [(on)-off-(on)]
>
> So, restated, how would I wire one of the above switches in the G207 grip
to
> switch between a fast and a slow elevator trim speed using the Matronics
Gov
> MkIII and the MAC Trim Servo?
>
> - Jim
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
How are they wired together? Where do you bypass the Matronics Governors?
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
> I've got a set-up that uses a pair of radio shack relays and a switch to
> detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed whenever
> my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
> the mac servo.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
>
> >
> > Sorry, there are a couple of optional switches:
> >
> > SPDT [on-on]
> > SPDT [on-off-on]
> > SPDT [(on)-off-(on)]
> >
> > So, restated, how would I wire one of the above switches in the G207
grip
> to
> > switch between a fast and a slow elevator trim speed using the Matronics
> Gov
> > MkIII and the MAC Trim Servo?
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
Jim,
The flap switch activates the two four pole double throw relays. The 4PDT
relays switch between one governor with a "low" speed setting and another
governor with a "high" speed setting. This keeps all of the governors'
safety features intact while allowing two speeds (discrete - non variable).
I have patents currently pending...contact me directly...my intent is not to
market or sell - just prevent others from making money from my idea...!
Ralph Capen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
> How are they wired together? Where do you bypass the Matronics Governors?
>
> - Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
>
>
> >
> > I've got a set-up that uses a pair of radio shack relays and a switch to
> > detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed
whenever
> > my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors
and
> > the mac servo.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Two Speed Trim Servo
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry, there are a couple of optional switches:
> > >
> > > SPDT [on-on]
> > > SPDT [on-off-on]
> > > SPDT [(on)-off-(on)]
> > >
> > > So, restated, how would I wire one of the above switches in the G207
> grip
> > to
> > > switch between a fast and a slow elevator trim speed using the
Matronics
> > Gov
> > > MkIII and the MAC Trim Servo?
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
>
>Bob,
>
>How would I wire a SPST grip mounted [on-on] switch to switch between a fast
>and a slow elevator trim speed using the Matronics Gov MkIII and the MAC
>Trim Servo?
>
>- Jim
Why would you want to do this on the stick grip? How about using
flap position (flaps not fully up gets you high speed trim)?
This is the way we did it on the Lears about 20 years ago.
Eliminates one piloting task.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
>
>
>I've got a set-up that uses a pair of radio shack relays and a switch to
>detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed whenever
>my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
>the mac servo.
Why two governors? Do you need to slow the trim system down
from it's full-voltage condition even in the approach phase
of flight?
Most of the homebuilts I've seen only need to slow it down
and control pitch trim in the cruising flight mode. The technique
is illustrated on page 2 of http://216.55.140.222/temp/PitchTrim.pdf
If you need to regulate both the flaps up and flaps down trim
speeds, a second potentiometer on a single voltage regulator will
give you this capability without having to add a second
controller.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
>
>
>Jim,
>
>The flap switch activates the two four pole double throw relays. The 4PDT
>relays switch between one governor with a "low" speed setting and another
>governor with a "high" speed setting. This keeps all of the governors'
>safety features intact while allowing two speeds (discrete - non variable).
Sounds pretty complicated. Page 2 of
http://216.55.140.222/temp/PitchTrim.pdf shows a way to
do it with one, single pole, two position switch.
>I have patents currently pending...contact me directly...my intent is not to
>market or sell - just prevent others from making money from my idea...!
Before let a patent attorney soak you for much money,
be sure to investigate "prior art" for systems already
out there. There's been so much work done in this area
that's already in service that you may be at risk
of spending a lot of money only to find out that
what you have is not patentable. Or your technique
varies so slightly from other techniques and control
philosophies as to have make the patent very weak.
It's been my observation on patents that unless you
are trying to protect a rudimentary feature of
core physics that makes your product unique, the
act of getting a patent is not very useful. The
technology rolls along so fast that techniques for
doing things become obsolete long before the patent
runs out.
Finally, holding a patent makes you LIABLE for defending
it. Suppose you do have a patent and you perceive that
its "protection" has been challenged. You are obligated
to mount a defense or risk loosing it. I recall one
case where the holder of a violated patent waited
until his perceived "damages" mounted to a value
that justified paying an attorney to go after the
violator. When the judge found out that the plaintiff
knew of the violation for several years before filling
suit, he booted the case out of court.
Patents are good things to have some times but
the vast majority of patents issued are so weak
-or- imposing upon the holder as to be virtually
useless in a rapidly evolving technology. And, as
is always the case, only the lawyers on BOTH sides
get paid their standard fees whether you win or not.
Locks on doors only keep honest people honest.
In the case of both locks and patents, dishonorable
people are seldom dissuaded by them. The risk is
high that a patent may cost you more than you
bargained for and in ways you never anticipated.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
Bob,
I already had the second governor so this was much simpler for me...I built
a mount for the relays and the governors and wired them all together...test
harness and all. I'm not big on the understanding of voltage regulators and
potentiometers (yet) as implemented in a circuit...the intent was to keep
the safety features inherent in the governor and allow me to ground select
the two speed settings. I do know of a couple of folks that are not using
full speed in "flaps-down" mode - just faster speed.
Thanks for your input...as always, you show me more things to learn about,
and I'm not the only one that is thankfull for that!
Ralph Capen
<>
> >my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
> >the mac servo.
>
>
> Why two governors? Do you need to slow the trim system down
> from it's full-voltage condition even in the approach phase
> of flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
Bob,
More thanks...
I did all of the paperwork myself so I'm not out any attorneys fees.
You're probably correct that it is not really new - or special.
I will check out the listing that you pointed me to to see a different way
to do it!
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Phone Interface |
>
>I have a Motorolla Satellite Phone 9505 that I want to Wire up a Hands
>free interface to the headset.
>
>The phone has a 3 connector plug for a personal hands free. Mike,
>earphone and a common ground I assume.
>
>How easy would it be to wire a plug that would let me plug in the
>headset.
>
>Is there any special thing that I need to do re Impedances?
I've not had an occasion to dig into the interface
characteristics of cell phones. Given that different
brands of phones seem to require different earphone/mic
accessories implies that they can be different from
brand to brand.
What you need to do is a bench measurement of the voltages
and impedances of the circuits while a "qualified"
accessory is plugged into the telephone and then strive
to duplicate those characteristics in a new system.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | DIY two speed trim system |
I've modified one of the previously published pitch trim
drawings to include a two speed system based on flap
position.
I believe this system has all the operational features
of the Matronics trim controller system with the addition of
two, independently set trim speeds and connections for
a switch on the flap linkage.
See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/trim6.pdf
The latest dimmer boards from B&C have provisions for
assembling this trim controller module. I haven't fed them
the assembly data yet but I suspect the costs will be
the same as for a DIM5-14 dimming controller.
Parts values are given in the drawing so one could do
the whole thing in house if you wish. The relays are
not critical. The MAC servos only draw about 100 mA.
Any 12v relay you want to use would be fine.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY two speed trim system |
What specific switch would you suggest for the "depressed when flaps full
up" switch?
Has anyone rigged this type of setup & has pictures of the physical
installation?
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DIY two speed trim system
>
> I've modified one of the previously published pitch trim
> drawings to include a two speed system based on flap
> position.
>
> I believe this system has all the operational features
> of the Matronics trim controller system with the addition of
> two, independently set trim speeds and connections for
> a switch on the flap linkage.
>
> See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/trim6.pdf
>
> The latest dimmer boards from B&C have provisions for
> assembling this trim controller module. I haven't fed them
> the assembly data yet but I suspect the costs will be
> the same as for a DIM5-14 dimming controller.
>
> Parts values are given in the drawing so one could do
> the whole thing in house if you wish. The relays are
> not critical. The MAC servos only draw about 100 mA.
> Any 12v relay you want to use would be fine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
> | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff LeTempt" <texasquadj(at)Prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Promotion of Bobs CD |
Bob,
Thoroughly enjoyed your program at the Tandem Wing Fly-In at Coffey County
Airport, but I have one correction.
The Jabiru was mounted on Wayne Ulvestad's Dragonfly (not a Quickie). Wayne
earned the "Best Overall Dragonfly" award at the fly-in. He has one
beautiful plane.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Promotion of Bobs CD
>
> >
> >I have to add a general promotion too. I just finished all of my wiring
and
> >I can't thank Bob enough. Everything was pretty straightforward after
> >reading his book, making the drawings from his CAD files and ordering all
> >the right stuff from his website. It came out great and everytime I
> >stripped, crimped and plugged another wire onto either the ground block
or
> >fuse blocks I was thinking of how much I owe Bob if I ever see him
around.
> >What a great system. Love that master toggle too.
> >
> >You are providing an incredible service to homebuilders Bob, thanks a
> >million! (That's about how many hours it would have taken if I tried it
> >without your help.)
>
> I'm very pleased that you find this activity useful.
>
> Spent yesterday at the tandem wing fly-in on the Burlington
> KS airport. These guys have no factory support. I've never met
> a more inquisitive and ambitious bunch of builders. They're
> looking at all kinds of engine options, electrical system
> options and whatever they decide to do, there are few if
> any suppliers of bolt-on-and-fly hardware.
>
> Got to look over a Jabiru engine installed in a Quickie.
> The American aircraft engine manufacturer's ought to keep
> scale models of this engine on everybody's desk to remind
> them what an aircraft engine CAN be . . .
>
> See http://www.jabiru.co.za/engines_pictures.htm
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/3300.html
>
> The installation was so much smaller and lighter than
> contemporary engines in the Quickies that the installer
> had to move a shorter engine forward under a new cowl
> to get the CG back in the right place. The end result
> being enough engine to firewall clearance to make this
> space attractive as a forward baggage compartment.
>
> No castings. EVERYTHING appears to be NC machined
> from solid hunks of metal. Not only a work of art
> but a stout and practical alternative to the 1940's
> technology that heads up the vast majority of US
> certified aircraft.
>
> Yet another example of what can happen when you
> figure out a way to do it without government's
> assistance and oversight.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >Gary K.
> >Pelican PL w/Stratus Subaru
> >Newport, R.I.
> >
> >
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | There is a great difference between knowing and |
> | understanding: you can know a lot about something and |
> | not really understand it. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Oops...I take back my first statement....the single DPDT relay will NOT
isolate the command switch from carrying motor current. The schematic I
have doesn't clearly show the internal workings of the relay, so I looked
up the relay schematic on Radio Shack's website and sure enough, the
circuit works such that the command switch provides the motor power
ground. With my Infinity stick grip the switches are rated at 8 amps so
I think this would still work ok for flaps and trim, but if someone is
using a switch rated at only one or two amps the DPDT solution would not
work...
On a seperate note, I looked through the relays in my Mouser catalog and
there are several flange-mount, DPDT relays that use Fast-Ons. They are
available with 15-30 Amp ratings and are in the $9-10 range. I also
noticed there were several SPDT relays that use Fast-Ons and they were
all between $3 and $4 apiece. Perhaps they are inferior quality to the
ones Bob sells for $10?? Anyway since they cost less than half what the
DPDT relays cost, I may just go ahead and order eight of them (two each
for flaps, pitch trim, roll trim, and taxi/landing lights). It will
probably add a few ounces, but will save me a few bucks and give me the
benefits of motor braking and less stress on the command switch....for
what little those features may be worth in my set-up...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts....
Yes, the single DPDT relay version will isolate a very low power command
switch from having to carry motor current, just like the two SPDT relay
version. No, it will not put a short across the motor when you release
the switch. I suppose for applications that benefit from this, the
two-relay version would be the way to go. But for my RV setup, the only
thing that would be sensitive enough to matter would be pitch trim, and
I'm using a flap-activated microswitch to source power from a speed
reducer to slow down the trim motor considerably when flaps are up....so
I really doubt it would make any observable difference in my setup.
There are some people using a Radio Shack DPDT relay (#275-218 for $7.99
with socket #275-220 for $2.49) to accomplish flap and trim functions
with a single relay for each motor. Contacts rated 15 A @ 125 VAC.
Someone put a schematic online and I printed it out but lost the link to
it. The main thing I don't like about it is that I don't think this
Radio Shack relay uses Fast-on connectors...the base has solder tabs
which might accept Fast-ons but it still makes mounting more difficult
compared to a relay with a flange that accepts two screws.... Bob do you
know if the supplier that you get your SPDT relay from might have a DPDT
relay that uses Fast-ons? I'll check my Mouser and Digikey catalogs and
let you know if I find something....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts...
_______
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: DPDT relay?
>
>Why dpdt? Because you can accomplish the task with one relay instead of
>two, which I should think would be both lighter and less expensive. And
I
>believe there are dpdt relays that use fast-ons.
>
>My question worded a different way would be "why not a dpdt?" Is there
a
>DISadvantage to making it simpler, lighter and cheaper??
But does the single relay version put a short across the motor
when you release the run command? Does the single relay version
isolate what might be a very low power command switch from having
to carry motor current?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | trim speed control |
<detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed whenever
>my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
>the mac servo.>>
I assume these "governors" provide a constant voltage output, but what about
a simple series resistor? I realize it won't regulate the trim speed to as
constant a value as a voltage control, but it is very simple. A
flap-actuated switch could then just bypass the resistor. Another thing
that I have seen used is a time delay that runs the trim slow for maybe a
second and then goes into high speed. What's the consensus on something
like that?
Gary Casey
ES project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
Has anyone looked into the use of an XM radio receiver for cruising tunes? Was
wondering what the receiver frequency band would be & if a GPS antenna could
be split to feed the input?
Dave Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trim speed control |
>
>< >detect my flap position. It automatically switches to high speed whenever
> >my flaps are off of their "UP" stop. It uses two matronics governors and
> >the mac servo.>>
>
>I assume these "governors" provide a constant voltage output, but what about
>a simple series resistor? I realize it won't regulate the trim speed to as
>constant a value as a voltage control, but it is very simple. A
>flap-actuated switch could then just bypass the resistor. Another thing
>that I have seen used is a time delay that runs the trim slow for maybe a
>second and then goes into high speed. What's the consensus on something
>like that?
It's been done and some people have found it satisfactory. Given
the very low mechanical efficiency of the MAC servos, their current
draw is relatively constant over a range of loads.
Active voltage control just increases the stability of the system
for changes both in aerodynamic loads and bus voltages. To meet
FAA requirements on larger airplanes, it was necessary to use
tach feedback on the motors and actually servo the motor's speed.
The trim speed controller using a modified dimmer is about half
way between a speed feedback servo and the simple resistor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Wire identification |
Can someone point me to a reference that deciphers the mil spec labeling on
wire? I would like to look up gauge and insulation type from the numbering
for a given wire number.
Thanks,
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire identification |
>
>
>Can someone point me to a reference that deciphers the mil spec labeling on
>wire? I would like to look up gauge and insulation type from the numbering
>for a given wire number.
See if you can find what you need at:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
>
>Has anyone looked into the use of an XM radio receiver for cruising
>tunes? Was wondering what the receiver frequency band would be & if a GPS
>antenna could be split to feed the input?
I'm using one in my car, it's set up for rack-out rack-in to the airplane
GPS antennas are not suitable, but the dedicated XM antennas aren't expensive
Look at EBAY to buy the XM unit. They're cheaper there than anywhere else.
There are two basic schemes for XM output. One goes into your
intercom. The other goes into the antenna of an FM radio. Be sure you
know which one you're getting.
We used it on our honeymoon, driving around northern California. I only
cut out when we were in tunnels. It should be great in the air.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: single DPDT relay? |
>
>Oops...I take back my first statement....the single DPDT relay will NOT
>isolate the command switch from carrying motor current. The schematic I
>have doesn't clearly show the internal workings of the relay, so I looked
>up the relay schematic on Radio Shack's website and sure enough, the
>circuit works such that the command switch provides the motor power
>ground. With my Infinity stick grip the switches are rated at 8 amps so
>I think this would still work ok for flaps and trim, but if someone is
>using a switch rated at only one or two amps the DPDT solution would not
>work...
Okay. You had me going there. I've been suffering a slight
case of brain-strain trying to figure out how to do it with
one DPDT and not run power through the control switch as well.
There's yet another variation on the theme wherein one doesn't
want to use the itty-bitty stick-grip switches and opts for
panel mounted toggle switches. Here's a case where the progressive
transfer type switch with momentary action both sides of center
[DPDT (on)-on-(on)] works well. See
http://216.55.140.222/temp/flaps2.pdf
Obviously, these configurations work equally well with any
PM motor positioning system be it flaps, trim, cowl flaps,
canopy, etc.
>On a seperate note, I looked through the relays in my Mouser catalog and
>there are several flange-mount, DPDT relays that use Fast-Ons. They are
>available with 15-30 Amp ratings and are in the $9-10 range. I also
>noticed there were several SPDT relays that use Fast-Ons and they were
>all between $3 and $4 apiece. Perhaps they are inferior quality to the
>ones Bob sells for $10?? Anyway since they cost less than half what the
>DPDT relays cost, I may just go ahead and order eight of them (two each
>for flaps, pitch trim, roll trim, and taxi/landing lights). It will
>probably add a few ounces, but will save me a few bucks and give me the
>benefits of motor braking and less stress on the command switch....for
>what little those features may be worth in my set-up...
Those will probably work for you just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY two speed trim system |
>
>What specific switch would you suggest for the "depressed when flaps full
>up" switch?
See: http://216.55.140.222/temp/BasicSwitches.jpg
and
http://info.digikey.com/T023/V5/0770-0771.pdf
>Has anyone rigged this type of setup & has pictures of the physical
>installation?
If anyone DOES have a working instllation and
can share pictures I can post, I'd like to hear from
them . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | We nearly got hosed . . . |
Catching up on a pile of unread mail this afternoon and ran
across this tidbit in AOPA Pilot. You can see an online
equivalent of the piece at
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2002/02-3-041x.html?PF
Seems the FAA came very close to banning all "non-certified"
EFB "electronic flight bag" devices from the cockpit unless
sprinkled with appropriate holy water. See the advisory
circular below which outlines in detail, the interests
assigned to a plethora of organizations within the FAA.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2002/ac120-76.doc
Had the "benefits" of government interest defined in the
above document been realized for our class of cockpit,
most current suppliers of useful equipment would throw in
the towel. The ones that stayed the course would have to
multiply their prices 3x to 10x. Advancement of their
products and ability to try new things would no longer be
driven by new technologies but by the designers ability
to get government "permission" . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: We nearly got hosed . . . |
In a message dated 10/6/02 4:46:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> The ones that stayed the course would have to
> multiply their prices 3x to 10x. Advancement of their
> products and ability to try new things would no longer be
> driven by new technologies but by the designers ability
> to get government "permission" . . .
>
Good Evening Bob,
I know this is a bit off topic, but I couldn't agree more.
May I add that standardization will always stifle innovation?
I know our industry constantly cries out for more and more standardization.
People want all GPSs to operate the same. Nobody wants to be required to
learn anything different when jumping from airplane to airplane, but if we
allow the government to set standards as to how things are to be done, nobody
will ever be able to make any improvements. The whole beauty of our entire
system is that we are free. Free to try and free to fail.
Let the market set the standards. People will build what people will buy.
Sorry for the soap box oratory.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm in the process of building a Seawind. For those who don't know, it's a
seaplane. I've been monitoring this site for a while now and find it very
interesting and informative. I need some help in determining how to setup my
electrical system. Thesystem will be all electric using two B & C alternators
and regulators. It will also have two batteries. The plane will also be full
IFR with auto pilot. What opinions do you all have on what should be on the
essential buss and the main buss.
Thank you
Tom Saccio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Both serius and xm radio use terk brand antennas. They have two leads
feeding the receiver; one is satellite and the other terrestrial. They use
ground transmitters for areas such as large cities where line of site (to
the satellite) is hard to maintain. They are relatively cheap, 79$ with a
30$ rebate. (www.terk.com)
Steve
capsteve(at)adelphia.net
N221RV RV-6A
Subject: AeroElectric-List: XM radio
Has anyone looked into the use of an XM radio receiver for cruising tunes?
Was wondering what the receiver frequency band would be & if a GPS antenna
could be split to feed the input?
Dave Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erik Anderson <erik(at)futura.net> |
| Subject: | Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
Bob,
I'm wiring my airplane, mostly taking your advice and thank you very
much by the way...
But I'm wondering if it's possible for the voltage light on the LR-3
controller to instead run to a two-color LED? Ideally, I'd like it to
light up green when the alternator is doing its thing, and red when it
isn't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I'm wiring my airplane, mostly taking your advice and thank you very
>much by the way...
> But I'm wondering if it's possible for the voltage light on the LR-3
> controller to instead run to a two-color LED? Ideally, I'd like it to
>light up green when the alternator is doing its thing, and red when it
>isn't.
A bit tough. The circuit flashes too. With a red/green
led, you would get an alternating red/green during a
low voltage condition . . . and I'm not sure we could get
things to bias up properly to make sure that the red light
would be illuminated during a power-down of the LR-3.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
I spoke with the XM folks a while back and they said there was no buffering
of the signal so I could expect to have the music drop out when rolling the
airplane (or flying under bridges!). Too bad.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Speed Trim Servo |
The Wright brothers patented their Flyer, and then spent the rest of their
productive lives and every penny they could scrape up 'trying' to protect
their patents, in court... They did not make even one further advance in
aeronautics after getting their patents... Curtiss replaced the wing warping
with ailerons, and changed from a canard planform to a conventional
planform and simply powered around them,... The other airplane manufacturers
ignored the Wrights patents and began producing airplanes, and the world
went on...
Bob's advice is right on the mark... I will add to that advice, if you have
something useful, forget the patents, publish it with your name attached and
insist that anyone using it or manufacturing it for sale use your name in
the future... Fame will be a far greater reward than making ATLA affluent..
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Two Speed Trim Servo
>
> >
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >I have patents currently pending...contact me directly...my intent is not
to
> >market or sell - just prevent others from making money from my idea...!
>
> Before let a patent attorney soak you for much money,
> be sure to investigate "prior art" for systems already
> out there. There's been so much work done in this
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>I'm in the process of building a Seawind. For those who don't know, it's a
>seaplane. I've been monitoring this site for a while now and find it very
>interesting and informative. I need some help in determining how to setup my
>electrical system. Thesystem will be all electric using two B & C alternators
>and regulators. It will also have two batteries. The plane will also be full
>IFR with auto pilot. What opinions do you all have on what should be on the
>essential buss and the main buss.
Tom, it would be easier to evaluate you're project
if you listed all the things you plan to put in your
airplane and how, based on your present understanding,
which bus you would use to power them up . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
Hi Bob,
You mean to tell me that the book not only tells me how to set up my electrical
system, it also helps me diagnose my screw-ups??? Such a deal! The DAR
is coming on Sunday so I won't be digging into it just yet, but thanlks very
much for pointing me in the right direction.
I know there has been a thread on promoting your products and I stand fully
behind that concept. Everyone who asks about my electrical system hears your
name and is told to get the durned book. Next step for me is to read it :)
Thanks.
Bill Yamokoski, watching the ammeter swing from 12:00 to 6:00 when the radio mike
is keyed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Insulating washers |
Hi Bob,
What is the requirement for insulating washers on the Mic and HS jacks? The
Val Com doesn't show any requirement but would it help or not?
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
What is the convention / need for terminal boots on the fat wires we have firewall
forward?
I see these nifty little rubber boots to put over the connections, however in my
case (wiring per Z11) I have 2 or 3 connections on the posts of the master contactor
& starter contactor so it's not clear to me how I would use one of those
rubber terminal boots.
Is this something I need, or if everything is tied up and clear of the connection
points can they be left open?
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Seattle WA
Finished my AWG2 leads (just like the comic books show)...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
> What is the convention / need for terminal boots on the fat wires
> we have firewall forward?
Even I know this one. They're used to hide the mess we made of the
insulation while soldering with a blow torch!
John Slade
Cozy IV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire identification |
>
>
> >
> >
> >Can someone point me to a reference that deciphers the mil spec labeling on
> >wire? I would like to look up gauge and insulation type from the numbering
> >for a given wire number.
>
>
> See if you can find what you need at:
>
> http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html
I didn't have any luck finding a hit on either a wire number or documents
that had wire numbers in them. There were a couple of hits on documents
that looked close, but the document wasn't included in the
description. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Chalmers <David(at)ChalmersFamily.com> |
Don't know whether they support sat phones but for a cellphone connection to
your headeset/intercom check out http://www.cellset.com/Aviationitems.html
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Scott [mailto:jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Phone Interface
I have a Motorolla Satellite Phone 9505 that I want to Wire up a Hands
free interface to the headset.
The phone has a 3 connector plug for a personal hands free. Mike,
earphone and a common ground I assume.
How easy would it be to wire a plug that would let me plug in the
headset.
Is there any special thing that I need to do re Impedances?
Any other hints
Thanks Bob.
Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire identification |
> > >Can someone point me to a reference that deciphers the mil spec
> labeling on
> > >wire? I would like to look up gauge and insulation type from the
> numbering
> > >for a given wire number.
> >
> >
> > See if you can find what you need at:
> >
> > http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/dodiss4_fields.html
>
>I didn't have any luck finding a hit on either a wire number or documents
>that had wire numbers in them. There were a couple of hits on documents
>that looked close, but the document wasn't included in the
>description. Am I missing something?
What numbers are you looking for?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating washers |
>
>Hi Bob,
>What is the requirement for insulating washers on the Mic and HS jacks? The
>Val Com doesn't show any requirement but would it help or not?
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 # 2888
Quoting from Chapter 16 . . .
"Microphone and headset jacks are common victims of
ground loops. A very few millivolts of noise can be
easily detected either in the headphones or impressed
upon your outgoing signal while speaking on the radio.
In metal airplanes, use insulating washers to prevent the
mounting bushings of headset and microphone jacks
from making contact with the airframe. All audio system
grounds should terminate at the audio system's distribu-
tion amplifier . . . usually the intercom system. Then, a
single ground wire from the audio system should join all
other avionics grounds at the panel equipment ground
block."
See also description for the insulating washers at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s890-1
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Terminal Boots? |
>
> > What is the convention / need for terminal boots on the fat wires
> > we have firewall forward?
>Even I know this one. They're used to hide the mess we made of the
>insulation while soldering with a blow torch!
>John Slade
>Cozy IV
Gee John, turn down the heat a little. I use the smallest
stable flame I can get from the standard hardware store variety
torch and apply heat only to the terminal . . . it's possible
to get the joint to flow with nary a hint of scorch on
the insulation. If you do get some discoloration and/or
pull-back, some double wall heat shrink like we use on
our battery jumpers is more secure than booties. See. . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/sbl.jpg
Booties are primarily intended as shields over otherwise
exposed electrical terminals to prevent inadvertent
contact and possible shorts. We use them all over the
spam cans. See . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/25171-2S.jpg
You can help them stay in place by putting a tye-wrap
or string tie around the barrel of the boot.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal Boots? |
>
>What is the convention / need for terminal boots on the fat wires we have
>firewall forward?
>
>I see these nifty little rubber boots to put over the connections, however
>in my case (wiring per Z11) I have 2 or 3 connections on the posts of the
>master contactor & starter contactor so it's not clear to me how I would
>use one of those rubber terminal boots.
>
>Is this something I need, or if everything is tied up and clear of the
>connection points can they be left open?
Tens of thousands of airplanes are flying sans booties
yet electrical problems for lack of boots isn't very
high on the list of probable causes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erik Anderson <erik(at)futura.net> |
| Subject: | Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
>
> A bit tough. The circuit flashes too. With a red/green
> led, you would get an alternating red/green during a
> low voltage condition . . . and I'm not sure we could get
> things to bias up properly to make sure that the red light
> would be illuminated during a power-down of the LR-3.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Hmm. Well, a flashing warning light, even if it's red/green, isn't
so bad. Provided it'll light up green when everything is good.
Odd behavior at shutdown I'm not too concerned about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
>
>I spoke with the XM folks a while back and they said there was no buffering
>of the signal so I could expect to have the music drop out when rolling the
>airplane (or flying under bridges!). Too bad.
Weird. There is buffering, about 5 seconds worth. It won't cut out under
bridges, but will in tunnels. I think the only way you'll get it to cut
out in an airplane is flying inverted. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Terminal Boots? |
>
> Booties are primarily intended as shields over otherwise
> exposed electrical terminals to prevent inadvertent
> contact and possible shorts. We use them all over the
> spam cans. See . . .
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/25171-2S.jpg
So, this is my primary question... What is a person to do if you have 2 or 3 lugs
under those connections? How can the boots be attached in that configuration?
- Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Terminal Boots? |
They can't... Suggest a simple rubber flap screwed to the firewall and
hanging over the lug to prevent accidental contact with a wrench, etc...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Terminal Boots?
>
> >
> > Booties are primarily intended as shields over otherwise
> > exposed electrical terminals to prevent inadvertent
> > contact and possible shorts. We use them all over the
> > spam cans. See . . .
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/25171-2S.jpg
>
> So, this is my primary question... What is a person to do if you have 2 or
3 lugs under those connections? How can the boots be attached in that
configuration?
>
> - Andy
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Terminal Boots? |
In a message dated 10/8/02 12:58:03 AM Central Daylight Time, andy(at)karmy.com
writes:
> So, this is my primary question... What is a person to do if you have 2 or 3
> lugs under those connections? How can the boots be attached in that
> configuration?
>
> - Andy
>
Good Morning Andy,
I like to use the booties, don't know that they are really needed most of the
time though.
In the case which you mention, I just run the two, three or four wires
through the Bootie before putting it all together. So far, that has worked
well for me, but it does sometimes take creative thought to get the lugs to
lay close enough for everything to fit together and look nice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Rounds <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Blast tube |
Hi all
Have the Van's alternator with the external regulator. It doesn,t have
a fan so am wondering where the cooling air from the blast tube should
be directed. Front or back of the unit. Also is there a particular
location on the magneto that should be the focus of the blast tube.
Bill Rounds
RV-9A
Finishing the baffle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Terminal Boots? |
>
>
> >
> > Booties are primarily intended as shields over otherwise
> > exposed electrical terminals to prevent inadvertent
> > contact and possible shorts. We use them all over the
> > spam cans. See . . .
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/25171-2S.jpg
>
>So, this is my primary question... What is a person to do if you have 2 or
>3 lugs under those connections? How can the boots be attached in that
>configuration?
Generally can't. At least for multiple fat wires. You can
sometimes get one fat wire and a couple of skinny ones to
share the same boot but it can get crowded under the
end-cap. Lots of situations in certified and OBAM ships
call for multiple wires to a large threaded post. These
are generally left open.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
>
>
> >
> > A bit tough. The circuit flashes too. With a red/green
> > led, you would get an alternating red/green during a
> > low voltage condition . . . and I'm not sure we could get
> > things to bias up properly to make sure that the red light
> > would be illuminated during a power-down of the LR-3.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>
> Hmm. Well, a flashing warning light, even if it's red/green, isn't
>so bad. Provided it'll light up green when everything is good.
> Odd behavior at shutdown I'm not too concerned about.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/Bicolor_LED.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
>
>Hi all
>
>Have the Van's alternator with the external regulator. It doesn,t have
>a fan so am wondering where the cooling air from the blast tube should
>be directed. Front or back of the unit. Also is there a particular
>location on the magneto that should be the focus of the blast tube.
Have there been temperature studies done to show that
blast cooling for these items is necessary? I don't
recall having seen any cooling on mags for an RV and
although some folks have cooled the alternator, I don't
recall anyone taking any real data that shows it's
needed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
If a double pole relay is rated at 30 amps, is this 30 amps per contact? I've
looked at the spec sheets for several relays like this and it appears to mean
30 A per contact (for a total relay current capacity of 60 A) but it's not absolutely
clear...
I'm planning on controlling two 100 W lights on my RV-8A from my Infinity stick
grip. I was looking at using two independent relays to accomplish this, but
most single pole relays are rated at 15 A, and if I recall correctly it's good
to use switches with a 20 A rating to handle the inrush current of the lights.
Does this rule of thumb apply to relays too, or only toggle switches?
Would it be better to use a DPDT relay rated 30 A, assuming that this is 30 A per
contact, instead of two SPDT relays rated 15 A? (Yes I know this means both
lights are on or off at the same time, and this is ok with me...).
Thanks for the endless wisdom...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing but never finished...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dimming question, again... |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, I never really received a direct answer addressing my proposed use of a zener
diode for my bright/dim switch question a few days ago, so here goes one
more time:
I have 3 LED indicators that I want to be ON when power is applied to some piece
of equipment. I want to use a toggle switch to provide a bright/dim function
for these LED's. My proposal to keep things simple is to run the ground for
the LED's through the bright/dim switch. When in the Bright position, the switch
will tie straight to ground. When in Dim position, the switch will go to
ground via a zener diode of TBD voltage. The theory is that since the zener
has a constant voltage across it with varying current, it will provide consistent
dimming values to all three LED's regardless of whether one, two or all three
are ON.
Does this make sense, or is there a simpler, better, cheaper way to accomplish
this?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dimming question, again... |
In a message dated 10/8/02 1:18:59 PM Central Daylight Time,
czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
> When in the Bright position, the switch will tie straight to ground. When
> in Dim position, the switch will go to ground via a zener diode of TBD
> voltage. The theory is that since the zener has a constant voltage across
> it with varying current, it will provide consistent dimming values to all
> three LED's regardless of whether one, two or all three are ON.
>
Good Afternoon Mark,
I am no expert and can't give advice as to what is best, but I did use a
Zener to accomplish the dimming function on the four lights that were
required for annunciation on my IFR GPS installation. The panel mount GPS
unit supplies the ground for the various lights that are required. When they
need to be on, they are grounded through that set.
I put a Zener diode of an appropriate voltage in the power feed with a SPST
switch to short out the Zener when I want them bright.
Been working like a charm for the last eleven years!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob, I made a list and tried to break it down as to what goes where. Here it
is:
Main Bus:
Taxi lights, Strobe, Landing lights, Position lights, Panel lights, Over head
lights
Auto pilot, Vor, HSI
Fuel boast pump, Right & Left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump
Pitot heat, Cooling fan, Stall warning, Flaps, Hobbs meter
Electric trim for Ailerons, Rudder and Stablizer
Landing gear, Hydraulic pressure gauge
Essential Bus:
Altimiter, Rate of climb, Air speed indicator, AI, Turn and slip indicator
Directional gyro, GPS( full IFR UPS stack), Nav-Com, Transponder, Audio panel
Goose neck light, Amp and Volt meter, Annunciator light, Clock and Timer
Primary fuel pump, Quad fuel gauges
Turn cordinator
I will also have an EM 1000 to monitor the engine.
I know that this is not complete but I hope that it is enough to get me
started in the right direction. Thanks Bob.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
Does anyone know where I could source a good looking
annunciator for my panel. Something with about 5 lights and a dim
switch, etc.
Philip Hildebrand, Lancair Super ES, Canada
Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Laurence <dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
Why don't you roll your own?
You can have a sign manufacture engrave the plastic subpanel, light it up
with a fiberoptic ribbon, and connect it to a small relay board.
If this sounds intersting, let me know, I can provide the source for all of
the aformentioned items. Just did this on a Velocity XL
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Hildebrand" <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator
>
> Does anyone know where I could source a good looking
> annunciator for my panel. Something with about 5 lights and a dim
> switch, etc.
>
>
> Philip Hildebrand, Lancair Super ES, Canada
> Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimming question, again... |
czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Guys, I never really received a direct answer addressing my proposed use of a
zener diode for my bright/dim switch question a few days ago, so here goes one
more time:
>
> I have 3 LED indicators that I want to be ON when power is applied to some piece
of equipment. I want to use a toggle switch to provide a bright/dim function
for these LED's. My proposal to keep things simple is to run the ground for
the LED's through the bright/dim switch. When in the Bright position, the
switch will tie straight to ground. When in Dim position, the switch will go
to ground via a zener diode of TBD voltage. The theory is that since the zener
has a constant voltage across it with varying current, it will provide consistent
dimming values to all three LED's regardless of whether one, two or all
three are ON.
>
> Does this make sense, or is there a simpler, better, cheaper way to accomplish
this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D finishing...
>
Mark,
With incandescent lamps, your idea will work fine, but LED's don't respond well
to varying the voltage. Most variable intensity LED's happen by using pulsed DC
& varying the pulse width (duty cycle) of the pulsed voltage. The perceived
brightness changes with the 'on-time' of the LED. Unfortunately, it's a lot more
complicated than adding a zener diode.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
>> Does anyone know where I could source a good looking
>> annunciator for my panel. Something with about 5 lights and a dim
>> switch, etc.
>Why don't you roll your own?
>You can have a sign manufacture engrave the plastic subpanel, light it up
>with a fiberoptic ribbon, and connect it to a small relay board.
>
>If this sounds intersting, let me know, I can provide the source for
all >of the aformentioned items. Just did this on a Velocity XL
>
>Peter
Peter, Phillip
I am also building a Lancair ES and looking for a small, "annunciator
solution." I am building my own panel. Roll your own sounds great, if I
can get a little guidance. I'll have two B&C regulators that have
annunciator lights that come with the units (which I may convert to LEDs),
and thought that I might add some lights on the panel near the regulator
lights. I was thinking about simply putting in a couple of lights to
indicate when the boost pump and cross feed are on and let it go at
that. The two extra lights would be simple indicators of whether a switch
is on or off. But I was thinking it might also be nice to annunciate low
fuel pressure in the field of view along with these other lights. But
being a rookie at this stuff, I don't really have a clue how to do
that. (It was a leap for me to figure out how to wire a light simply to
indicate when a switch is on!)
I would appreciate any thoughts you have. There are some good solutions
out there (e.g., Proprietary Software), but as my panel grows, my budget
shrinks. Besides, a custom annunciator sounds more fun.
Dan O'Brien
Lancair Super ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Insulating Wahsers for Music Jacks |
Bob or anyone, please:
Do you know where to get 1/4 inch hole insulating washers for a music jack?
Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, N2GX reserved, SE Florida)
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating Wahsers for Music Jacks |
>
>
>Bob or anyone, please:
>
>Do you know where to get 1/4 inch hole insulating washers for a music jack?
How many do you need. Allied Electronics catalogs packages
of 100 for about $4.00 per pkg. It's a Keystone Electronics
p/n 4711. The matching flat washer is p/n 3178 also from
keystone. Allied doesn't catalog this one. If you just
need a few, try http://www.keyelco.com
They might sample you a few.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating Wahsers for Music Jacks |
Gabe and Marisol Ferrer wrote:
> Bob or anyone, please:
>
> Do you know where to get 1/4 inch hole insulating washers for a music jack?
>
> Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, N2GX reserved, SE Florida)
You might try Newark electronics part #50N867 at this site.
http://www.newark.com/search/searchPage.jsp?focus=0
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Dimming question, again... |
Mark,
That arrangement should work fine, just make sure your Zener is rated high enough
current to light (dimmly) all three LEDs. This shouldn't be a problem, since
you will likely only need a few milliamps each.
Since the LED is really a diode, the voltage drop across it will be constant (
about 0.8V if I remember right), regardless of the current. Of course the current
will determine the intensity of the LEDs. Each LED will need a series resistor
of a value determined by the current rating of the LED and the highest system
voltage you expect to see. With an LED rated at 20 mA full bright, say (14V
- 0.8V)/20mA 660 Ohms or, erring on the high side, around 720 ohms or so.
Now if you need 5 mA for the dim current, your 720 ohm will drop (720 *.005)
3.6V. Thus 14V - 0.8V - 3.6V 9.6V zener would give you the current you want (assuming
the led currents above are correct - but they're probably not!).
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dimming question, again...
Guys, I never really received a direct answer addressing my proposed use of a zener
diode for my bright/dim switch question a few days ago, so here goes one
more time:
I have 3 LED indicators that I want to be ON when power is applied to some piece
of equipment. I want to use a toggle switch to provide a bright/dim function
for these LED's. My proposal to keep things simple is to run the ground for
the LED's through the bright/dim switch. When in the Bright position, the switch
will tie straight to ground. When in Dim position, the switch will go to
ground via a zener diode of TBD voltage. The theory is that since the zener
has a constant voltage across it with varying current, it will provide consistent
dimming values to all three LED's regardless of whether one, two or all three
are ON.
Does this make sense, or is there a simpler, better, cheaper way to accomplish
this?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating Wahsers for Music Jacks |
Gabe and Marisol Ferrer wrote:
>
>
> Bob or anyone, please:
>
> Do you know where to get 1/4 inch hole insulating washers for a music jack?
>
> Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, N2GX reserved, SE Florida)
> ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
> Cell: 561 758 8894
> Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
>
http://www.switchcraft.com/
& look up their 1/4" audio phone jacks. P/N s1028 & s1029 insulating washers are
needed. Unfortunately, they can't be found using the site's search engine. Go to
a well equipped electronics supply house that handles Switchcraft brand
connectors & ask for them by name & #.
If you haven't bought your jacks yet, you can use their enclosed style SERIES
MN-11* Hi-D JAX which has a threaded nylon (insulated) mounting bushing.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Rounds" <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Blast tube
>
> Hi all
>
> Have the Van's alternator with the external regulator. It doesn,t have
> a fan so am wondering where the cooling air from the blast tube should
> be directed. Front or back of the unit. Also is there a particular
> location on the magneto that should be the focus of the blast tube.
Bill: Many moons ago, when Van was using an alternator like unto the
Pelican unit, there were failures (both on Van's RV-4 and others) attributed
to lack of cooling. Van even drilled a hole in the side of the alternator
case and piped air to it from the upper plenum. When I was setting up
my -4, I had one of the same units. It too, had the fan removed. Bill
Bainbridge sent me a pulley with fan which I use to this day. The only
explanation for the fan removal that I could find was the vague notion that
the air movement inside the cowl might tend to fight with the fan. It was
suggested that the diodes in the back of the alternator could fail if
overheated and so I built a shroud for the back side of the unit and piped
air to it from the front engine cooling baffle. This works in concert with
the fan. The alternator is still OK after nine years. I have no proof that
what I did was necessary.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Rounds <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
Bob,
You're probably right that there isn't any temperature studies on the
need for blast air for the alternator and mag. It may be another old
wives tale akin to needing shielded cable for the alternator field. On
the other hand, most if not all of the RV webmasters such as Sam
Buchanan used blast air on the Alt. and Mags . In addition, the
homebuilding guru, Tony Bingelis recommends it and Vans has them on
their demo aircraft. It seems to me that I saw some anecdotal data
somewhere that temperatures can exceed 300 degrees F in some parts of
the uncooled cowling area. Do you think any of the above means anything.
I don't have enough practical knowledge to separate the wheat from the
chaff on this one. At any rate if we wanted to cool the alternator
would one want to cool the forward or aft face. It seem to me that
those ND alternators have diodes in the back end. Would they be
vulnerable to overheating?
Bill Rounds
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Hi all
>>
>>Have the Van's alternator with the external regulator. It doesn,t have
>>a fan so am wondering where the cooling air from the blast tube should
>>be directed. Front or back of the unit. Also is there a particular
>>location on the magneto that should be the focus of the blast tube.
>>
>
>
> Have there been temperature studies done to show that
> blast cooling for these items is necessary? I don't
> recall having seen any cooling on mags for an RV and
> although some folks have cooled the alternator, I don't
> recall anyone taking any real data that shows it's
> needed.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSFIED - SWITCH QUERY |
Bob,
I am designing my first electrical circuits - managed to get confused
between the headroom required by fuses and switches so I re-read Ch11 of the
Connection, and am attempting to use the following table from Ch 11 of
AC43.13 to size switches for basic services. Still confused!
Switch Derating Factors
Sys Volts Load Type Derating factor
12 Lamp 5
12 Relay 2
12 Heater 1
12 Motor 2
Would you be kind enough to clarify the switch ratings of your S700 series
switches. The only reference to their rating I can find is at the end of the
article Switch Ratings- What's it all Mean? which generically quotes 7 amps,
but does not specify tungsten, inductive or resistive.
For example, for my 55 watt 4.6 amp landing light the table suggests a
whopping 23 amp DC switch rating. Presumably because of the inrush. But the
computed fuse will be 7 amp, so will the fuse blow when the switch goes to
work?
Some of my loads are pitot heat (constant resistance) 8 amps, position
lights, 6A, strobe power supply 7A, taxi light 4.6A. Please confirm your
S700 series switches are suitable for each of these loads.
Additionally, in Z12 and Z13 the essential bus alternate feed is shown as a
switch, but supports some fairly hefty combined loads on the e-bus, well
over 7A. At what total load point would you suggest upgrading from your
S700 series switch to a relay? Mine will be a complex IFR equipment fit with
attendant heavy electrical loads.
Appreciate your advice, and I very much enjoy sitting down to my daily
electrical lesson on the List.
David Francis, Canberra, Australia, VH-ZEE
Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)iprimus.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
I have a RV6 with my alternator blast tube aimed at the front. No problems
to compared to aiming it from behind. I have been running it for three years
300 hrs trouble free, but I wonder if that is really necessary given that
the temps in my car bonnet/hood are not much cooler. Come to think of it I
also wonder if the 4inch pulley is also necessary to slow down the alt revs.
Albert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
For those who want to build their own annunciator lights, the nicest system I have seen uses 1.5in by 3/8 in bar lights, which have two 12 volt bulbs, draw 180 ma, and have stacking tongue and groove slots so that they can be stacked horizontally, vertically, or variations of these. A colored plastic sheet with lettering can be run through your laser printer to make whatever lable you want, and because the lighted area is 1.5 by 1/4, the lable can have 6 to 10 letters. The lamps glow at a medium intensity, suggesting that they should be good for thousands of hours. The price? 20 cents each, 15 cents for 10 or more. I got 30 of them. see http://www.mpja.com/product.asp?product5072+LA for the picture. These use 0.187 faston tabs.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Hall effect Ammeter - Magneto ignition current |
I have two questions for you :
- Does anyone have a commendable reference for a good (and reliable)
Hall effect ammeter sensor with an unipolar power supply (+12V ) ?
The only one I found with unipolar power supply is from Honeywell
and looks like very small and fragile... (CS Series).
I red here and there thing's about "micro switch" sensor, but can't find it.
- I would like to use toggle switches for my ignition circuit and I would like
to know
what is the real value of the current from the primary circuit of a
Bendix magneto when you ground it?
Does anyone have measured it once ?
Thank you for your help.
Vincent.
France
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
>
>Bob,
>
>You're probably right that there isn't any temperature studies on the
>need for blast air for the alternator and mag. It may be another old
>wives tale akin to needing shielded cable for the alternator field. On
>the other hand, most if not all of the RV webmasters such as Sam
>Buchanan used blast air on the Alt. and Mags . In addition, the
>homebuilding guru, Tony Bingelis recommends it and Vans has them on
>their demo aircraft. It seems to me that I saw some anecdotal data
> somewhere that temperatures can exceed 300 degrees F in some parts of
>the uncooled cowling area.
Yup, anecdotal. It's sad that the same folks who KNOW that we
need to know, understand and observe other performance limits
on the airframe like Vne, stall, gross weight, density altitude,
etc toss around other numbers on the same machines as if they
were also important but haven't a clue as to what's really going
on.
> Do you think any of the above means anything.
> I don't have enough practical knowledge to separate the wheat from the
>chaff on this one. At any rate if we wanted to cool the alternator
>would one want to cool the forward or aft face. It seem to me that
>those ND alternators have diodes in the back end. Would they be
>vulnerable to overheating?
Might be. Never had the opportunity to go find out so
I can't tell you.
>Bill Rounds
It's pretty easy to find out for sure. Thermocouple reading
instruments are relatively cheap . . . A really good Fluke
digital T/C readout is under $100
http://www.tequipment.net/FlukePriceList.html
The worst case temps for most airplanes is a best angle
climb on hot day. An alternator would be tested with everything
electrical turned on. If you were REALLY going to see if the
alternator could be loaded to max capacity, you would
fabricate and install a temporary load of some kind that
could be used to fully load the machine. The alternator
is concerned with stator winding and diode array temperatures.
Diodes are not always easy to get at without disassembling
the alternator but you can slip a miniature T/C into the windings
of most alternators without disassembly. Magnetos, of course,
are easy to T/C . . . a dab of durable epoxy will hold a T/C
to the outside of the case.
If anyone is willing to go do some real studies on these
issues and publish the results, the could go down in the
annals of OBAM aviation as somebody who really KNEW what
they were talking about.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SWITCH QUERY |
>
>
>
>Bob,
>I am designing my first electrical circuits - managed to get confused
>between the headroom required by fuses and switches so I re-read Ch11 of the
>Connection, and am attempting to use the following table from Ch 11 of
>AC43.13 to size switches for basic services. Still confused!
>
>Switch Derating Factors
>Sys Volts Load Type Derating factor
>12 Lamp 5
>12 Relay 2
>12 Heater 1
>12 Motor 2
>
>
>Would you be kind enough to clarify the switch ratings of your S700 series
>switches. The only reference to their rating I can find is at the end of the
>article Switch Ratings- What's it all Mean? which generically quotes 7 amps,
>but does not specify tungsten, inductive or resistive.
>
>For example, for my 55 watt 4.6 amp landing light the table suggests a
>whopping 23 amp DC switch rating. Presumably because of the inrush. But the
>computed fuse will be 7 amp, so will the fuse blow when the switch goes to
>work?
>
>Some of my loads are pitot heat (constant resistance) 8 amps, position
>lights, 6A, strobe power supply 7A, taxi light 4.6A. Please confirm your
>S700 series switches are suitable for each of these loads.
>
>Additionally, in Z12 and Z13 the essential bus alternate feed is shown as a
>switch, but supports some fairly hefty combined loads on the e-bus, well
>over 7A. At what total load point would you suggest upgrading from your
>S700 series switch to a relay? Mine will be a complex IFR equipment fit with
>attendant heavy electrical loads.
>
>Appreciate your advice, and I very much enjoy sitting down to my daily
>electrical lesson on the List.
Have you read http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
You may be spending far too much time worrying about this.
Our switches are suitable for about any of the common loads
in your airplane. It isn't like we're trying to get 10,000
to 50,000 cycles out of these switches. It's more like
10-15 years which probably won't exceed 1,000 cycles on the
most used switch and perhaps a few dozen cycles on the least used.
Take the wire rating table in Figure 8-3 as guide for fuse
sizes. 30 to 100% headroom is no big deal for most circuits
you just want them large enough that there are no nuisance
trips of the circuit protection. The ringer is pitot heat. This
heater draws a lot of inrush (cold) current for perhaps 5-10
seconds after turn-on. Run 14AWG and 15A fuse for the 8A device.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
>
>
>I have a RV6 with my alternator blast tube aimed at the front. No problems
>to compared to aiming it from behind. I have been running it for three years
>300 hrs trouble free, but I wonder if that is really necessary given that
>the temps in my car bonnet/hood are not much cooler. Come to think of it I
>also wonder if the 4inch pulley is also necessary to slow down the alt revs.
>Albert
the oversized pulley was deemed useful by some folks to
"prevent overspeeding" and thereby increasing bearing life.
Bearing life has proven to be more a factor of rotor balance
than a function of speed. This is why B&C balances their rotors
to about 10x tighter specs than factory-new.
Leaving the pulley factory stock gets you more output at
idle/taxi RPMs, increases cooling and increases cowl clearance
on come aircraft.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Rounds" <wrounds(at)ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Blast tube
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Have the Van's alternator with the external regulator. It doesn,t have
> > a fan so am wondering where the cooling air from the blast tube should
> > be directed. Front or back of the unit. Also is there a particular
> > location on the magneto that should be the focus of the blast tube.
>
>Bill: Many moons ago, when Van was using an alternator like unto the
>Pelican unit, there were failures (both on Van's RV-4 and others) attributed
>to lack of cooling. Van even drilled a hole in the side of the alternator
>case and piped air to it from the upper plenum. When I was setting up
>my -4, I had one of the same units. It too, had the fan removed. Bill
>Bainbridge sent me a pulley with fan which I use to this day. The only
>explanation for the fan removal that I could find was the vague notion that
>the air movement inside the cowl might tend to fight with the fan. It was
>suggested that the diodes in the back of the alternator could fail if
>overheated and so I built a shroud for the back side of the unit and piped
>air to it from the front engine cooling baffle. This works in concert with
>the fan. The alternator is still OK after nine years. I have no proof that
>what I did was necessary.
Hey Gordon, long time no hear from you. Of course that's mostly my
fault. We may find a good reason to get back to OSH one of these years.
A common anecdote flying around about alternator fans way back when
was the notion that on airplane engines, the alternator runs
"backwards" and therefore, the models fitted with fans would be
better off having the fan removed and cooling replaced with a blast
tube.
If anyone had bothered to study the physics of centrifugal fans
they would have discovered that turning that particular design
"backwards" results in only a slight loss of air flow for a given
speed. Removing the fans was NOT a good thing to do.
Even if the fans were left on, pundits of the time opined that slowing
the alternator down with a larger pulley was advisable . . .which
only served to further cripple fan operation.
Modern alternators are cooled with internal fans so we don't
have an opportunity to hose them up by taking the fans off.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Inline mike and headset plugs |
I am looking for a source of inline male & female mike and speaker
plugs for an aviation headset (part of the phone interface project)
Ian
http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au
- Find yourself a bargain!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall effect Ammeter - Magneto ignition current |
>
>I have two questions for you :
>
>- Does anyone have a commendable reference for a good (and reliable)
>Hall effect ammeter sensor with an unipolar power supply (+12V ) ?
>The only one I found with unipolar power supply is from Honeywell
>and looks like very small and fragile... (CS Series).
>I red here and there thing's about "micro switch" sensor, but can't find it.
Microswitch and Honeywell are one in the same company
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/current/
Did a quick websearch and came up with
http://www.wattco.net/tstitems/halleffect.pdf
http://www.crmagnetics.com/newprod/ProductView.asp?ProdName=CR5210
and
http://www.west.net/~escor/
>- I would like to use toggle switches for my ignition circuit and I would
>like to know
>what is the real value of the current from the primary circuit of a
>Bendix magneto when you ground it?
>Does anyone have measured it once ?
I've taken a whack at it. It's not much and due to the pulsed
nature that lasts only a very short time, it's difficult to put an
RMS value on it. I think I recall seeing peak currents on the order of
2-3 Amps.
>Thank you for your help.
>
>
>Vincent.
>France
>
>
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
I've been reading the list for some time now trying to absorb what I will
need to know - but now I am about to start and have a really simple question
to which I haven't seen the answer. I am putting some "microswitches" in
the flap mechanism that will switch the motor current directly. It looks
like the motor has a stall current of about 4-5 amps. Catalogs usually list
current ratings at every voltage except 12, it seems. Question is, how does
one convert the typical 120-volt AC rating to a 12-volt DC inductive load?
I'm assuming a 15-amp AC switch will have the capacity for a 5-amp DC load.
Correct? Then I found some switches that had a Mil-spec rating - the cost
went from about $4 each to about $25 each. What's the difference?
Gary Casey
ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Current capacity |
Bob,
I've positioned my battery and contactors so that they can be connected
short, shrink wrapped lengths of your B&C brass bus bar stock. Any idea of
the AWG equivelent of this brass stock? Should I double it up?
On a similar note, I notice that drawing 11a shows 18AWG for the starter
contactor, but 22 awg for the other contactors. Why is this?
John Slade
Cozy IV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Current capacity |
>
>Bob,
>I've positioned my battery and contactors so that they can be connected
>short, shrink wrapped lengths of your B&C brass bus bar stock. Any idea of
>the AWG equivelent of this brass stock? Should I double it up?
Single layer will be fine.
>On a similar note, I notice that drawing 11a shows 18AWG for the starter
>contactor, but 22 awg for the other contactors. Why is this?
Starter contactors draw about 5X the current
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch ratings |
>
>I've been reading the list for some time now trying to absorb what I will
>need to know - but now I am about to start and have a really simple question
>to which I haven't seen the answer. I am putting some "microswitches" in
>the flap mechanism that will switch the motor current directly. It looks
>like the motor has a stall current of about 4-5 amps. Catalogs usually list
>current ratings at every voltage except 12, it seems. Question is, how does
>one convert the typical 120-volt AC rating to a 12-volt DC inductive load?
>I'm assuming a 15-amp AC switch will have the capacity for a 5-amp DC load.
>Correct? Then I found some switches that had a Mil-spec rating - the cost
>went from about $4 each to about $25 each. What's the difference?
Not much. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
About any switch you buy with thickness of 0.4" x 1.0" x 0.6"
(Microswitch V3 series) or larger will be just fine. Given the
VERY infrequent and low duty cycle of switches in airplanes,
"ratings" that speak of life in the tens of thousands of operations
are close to meaningless.
As I point out in the article above, 117 VAC ratings compare
very favorably with 14 VDC capability.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard aero
suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts stores
with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also re-packaging
them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own strobes?
Thanks
Neil Clayton
Cozy MkIV #493
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall effect Ammeter - Magneto ignition current |
current sensors - http://www.ampsense.com/
I got the AMP200's and PRO50 installed but not running yet.
Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hall effect Ammeter - Magneto ignition
current
>
> >
> >I have two questions for you :
> >
> >- Does anyone have a commendable reference for a good (and reliable)
> >Hall effect ammeter sensor with an unipolar power supply (+12V ) ?
> >The only one I found with unipolar power supply is from Honeywell
> >and looks like very small and fragile... (CS Series).
> >I red here and there thing's about "micro switch" sensor, but can't find
it.
>
>
> Microswitch and Honeywell are one in the same company
>
> http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/current/
>
>
> Did a quick websearch and came up with
>
> http://www.wattco.net/tstitems/halleffect.pdf
>
> http://www.crmagnetics.com/newprod/ProductView.asp?ProdName=CR5210
>
> and
>
> http://www.west.net/~escor/
>
>
> >- I would like to use toggle switches for my ignition circuit and I would
> >like to know
> >what is the real value of the current from the primary circuit of a
> >Bendix magneto when you ground it?
> >Does anyone have measured it once ?
>
> I've taken a whack at it. It's not much and due to the pulsed
> nature that lasts only a very short time, it's difficult to put an
> RMS value on it. I think I recall seeing peak currents on the order of
> 2-3 Amps.
>
>
> >Thank you for your help.
> >
> >
> >Vincent.
> >France
> >
> >
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
> | spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
> |-------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Vaccum Pump Removal |
Since I am using the all-electric approach to building I plan to remove and
sell my vaccum pump. I have an O-235 N2C engine. I will need to install a
cover plate and gasket on the accessory pad in place of the vaccum pump.
Does anyone know where I can buy one already made? I haven't seen anything
in my regular catalogues. I really don't want to make a plate for this.
The engine and everything on it is still "certified" - so far.
Thanks for any help.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 70% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard aero
>suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts stores
>with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also re-packaging
>them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
>
>Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own strobes?
You seem willing to get shed of the strangle-hold that
certified aviation strobe suppliers have on the market.
That being the case, then there's no reason to build
your self when there are so many capable suppliers
of product equal to or better than certified for
less dollars.
Did some websearching and had thousands of hits for
suppliers/manufacturers of vehicular warning strobe
systems. Here's just a small sample.
http://www.strobes-r-us.com/strobes-r-us_021.htm
http://www.strobes-r-us.com/strobes-r-us_025.htm
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=GR006
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?item=GR061
http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/ies/606pakset1.JPG
http://www.acornproducts.com/specials/January_2002_Specials/Undercover_Specials_Content.htm
http://www.strobe.com/products/xpak.htm
Talk to the folks that make them. You're looking for
systems that put 20 joules or more energy into
EACH flash to be on a par with systems sprinkled with
Washington holy water.
The hard part is mounting some of these critters as the supplied
lamp assemblies are designed to fit inside user supplied
fixtures. But some creative glass and epoxy, sheet metal
or machine work should yield useful alternatives . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vaccum Pump Removal |
>
>
>Since I am using the all-electric approach to building I plan to remove and
>sell my vaccum pump. I have an O-235 N2C engine. I will need to install a
>cover plate and gasket on the accessory pad in place of the vaccum pump.
>Does anyone know where I can buy one already made? I haven't seen anything
>in my regular catalogues. I really don't want to make a plate for this.
>The engine and everything on it is still "certified" - so far.
>Thanks for any help.
Why aren't you "plugging" that hole with another alternator?
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)globaleyes.net> |
I got a couple of strobe kits from Great Plains Aircraft. I think they are
really some kind of Heathkit type of kit that Great Plains re-labels. I
built two strobes - one works, I need to order another bulb. I potted them
with micro slurry for vibration. I have not yet tried mounting them.
They are not all that bright, but I will use them if nothing better comes
along.
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Clayton" <harvey4(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes
>
> I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard aero
> suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts stores
> with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also re-packaging
> them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
>
> Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own strobes?
>
> Thanks
> Neil Clayton
> Cozy MkIV #493
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeter ... |
I bought two Hall Effect sensors from Grand Rapids Technology
www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys
I installed one on my backup power system and one on the primary.
They run from a 4.8 VDC source.
Call Gregg at Grand Rapids, 616 583 8000. I'm sure he'll be glad to discuss
with you the sensor's details.
I haven't flown yet, but it looks like they are working in the hangar.
Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, N2GX reserved, SE Florida)
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
I messed with it for a while, and got fristrated.
If you search on e-bay, there are various auto (police, emergency)
strobe systems available for pretty cheap. Just search "strobe"
there will be a buncha hits. It seems there are one or two places
that have stores and 5 or 6 systems at a time for sale, so they
are new. (usually $60-240 for the powersupply with some bulbs).
The frustrating thing, is the darn wing tip fittings. Like you,
my Cozy isn't too conducive to mounting the bulbs anywhere but
the tips. They'll cost about $300 for the pair.
Neil Clayton wrote:
>
> I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard aero
> suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts stores
> with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also re-packaging
> them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
>
> Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own strobes?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
There are certainly much cheaper power supplies that you can use with the aeroflash
or whelen strobe tubes if you don't want to build a custom mount. I chose
to use the Nova Electronics XPAK 904 - this is one of the links Bob posted:
http://www.strobe.com/products/xpak.htm
The 904 has bascially the same specs as the whelen cometflash 413 that drives three strobe heads. I purchased my 904 from http://www.strobesnmore.com for $159 dollars compared to $350+ for the whelen unit. There's detailed information in the RV-List archives, just search on XPAK. I hooked it up to my Whelen lighting units and they're extremely bright! It exceeds the 20 Joules per flash requirment that Bob mentions.
Todd Houg
RV-9A - fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Strobes
>
>I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard aero
>suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts stores
>with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also re-packaging
>them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
>
>Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own strobes?
You seem willing to get shed of the strangle-hold that
certified aviation strobe suppliers have on the market.
That being the case, then there's no reason to build
your self when there are so many capable suppliers
of product equal to or better than certified for
less dollars.
Did some websearching and had thousands of hits for
suppliers/manufacturers of vehicular warning strobe
systems. Here's just a small sample.
http://www.strobes-r-us.com/strobes-r-us_021.htm
http://www.strobes-r-us.com/strobes-r-us_025.htm
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?itemGR006
http://www.galls.com/shop/viewProductDetail.jsp?itemGR061
http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/ies/606pakset1.JPG
http://www.acornproducts.com/specials/January_2002_Specials/Undercover_Specials_Content.htm
http://www.strobe.com/products/xpak.htm
Talk to the folks that make them. You're looking for
systems that put 20 joules or more energy into
EACH flash to be on a par with systems sprinkled with
Washington holy water.
The hard part is mounting some of these critters as the supplied
lamp assemblies are designed to fit inside user supplied
fixtures. But some creative glass and epoxy, sheet metal
or machine work should yield useful alternatives . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeter ... |
Gabe,
I have a 40 amp alternator and an SD-8 backup alternator. Greg at Grand
Rapids advised me to purchase just one hall effect current sensor and run
both B-leads through it. I don't anticipate ever running both alternators at
the same time so the single current sensor should be sufficient for my
system.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I bought two Hall Effect sensors from Grand Rapids Technology.
I installed one on my backup power system and one on the primary.
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erik Anderson <erik(at)futura.net> |
| Subject: | Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
Phreeeow! Now that's a true act of kindness. Many, many thanks.
>
>
> See http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/Bicolor_LED.pdf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
> I messed with it for a while, and got fristrated.
Me too. I made the White Plains strobes. As was said, they work (both in my
case :), but then you still have to figure out how and where to fit them,
and you still need the fittings. I struggled with this one for two years
before buckling under and getting the Aeroflash units. There's about $30
worth of cheap looking parts in the whole package, but they work well and
they're much cheaper than the Whelands.
John Slade
Cozy IV
http://kgarden.com/cozy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall effect Ammeter - Magneto ignition current |
> current sensors - http://www.ampsense.com/
> I got the AMP200's and PRO50 installed but not running yet.
These look nice, and inexpensive too. What gauge did you use?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeter ... |
I was wondering wghat the advantages to using Hall Effect ammeter sensors
are? Is it to get the big leads out of the cockpit?
Thanks
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hall Effect Ammeter ...
>
> I bought two Hall Effect sensors from Grand Rapids Technology
> www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys
>
> I installed one on my backup power system and one on the primary.
>
> They run from a 4.8 VDC source.
>
> Call Gregg at Grand Rapids, 616 583 8000. I'm sure he'll be glad to
discuss
> with you the sensor's details.
>
> I haven't flown yet, but it looks like they are working in the hangar.
>
> Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, N2GX reserved, SE Florida)
> ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
> Cell: 561 758 8894
> Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander Balic" <alex0157(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
I don't think that the Bi-color Led's are wired that way (maybe there is one
out there though) all of the ones that I have seen have 3 leads- an input
for each of the led elements, and a ground- the led shown looks to be
designed specifically for polarity sensing- is there such a thing?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Erik
Anderson
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Two-color LED and the LR-3?
Phreeeow! Now that's a true act of kindness. Many, many thanks.
>
>
> See http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/Bicolor_LED.pdf
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall Effect Ammeter ... |
>
>
>I was wondering wghat the advantages to using Hall Effect ammeter sensors
>are? Is it to get the big leads out of the cockpit?
>Thanks
>Ned
No, you can get the fat wires out with either a shunt
or a hall effect sensor. Hall-sensors do not require
breaking into the lead wire to measure the current that
flows in it. You can also use the hall-sensor to measure
the current in more than one wire wherein the sensor
sees the algebraic sum of all the currents. Not much
application for this in airplanes but there is ONE
two-wire opportunity. You can run the b-lead for both
the main and aux alternators through the sensor and it
will read either alternator or the sum of both should they
both happen to be on and delivering power.
This comes with a price. Hall-sensors have very tiny
output signals that need amplification by circuitry
having stable characteristics. Higher parts count,
lower overall reliability and perhaps some loss of
accuracy (not a big issue for alternator loadmeters).
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Hall Effect Ammeter ... |
>
>Gabe,
>
>I have a 40 amp alternator and an SD-8 backup alternator. Greg at Grand
>Rapids advised me to purchase just one hall effect current sensor and run
>both B-leads through it. I don't anticipate ever running both alternators at
>the same time so the single current sensor should be sufficient for my
>system.
That will work. See my post of a few minutes ago.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>There are certainly much cheaper power supplies that you can use with the
>aeroflash or whelen strobe tubes if you don't want to build a custom
>mount. I chose to use the Nova Electronics XPAK 904 - this is one of the
>links Bob posted:
>http://www.strobe.com/products/xpak.htm
>
>The 904 has bascially the same specs as the whelen cometflash 413 that
>drives three strobe heads. I purchased my 904 from
>http://www.strobesnmore.com for $159 dollars compared to $350+ for the
>whelen unit. There's detailed information in the RV-List archives, just
>search on XPAK. I hooked it up to my Whelen lighting units and they're
>extremely bright! It exceeds the 20 Joules per flash requirment that Bob
>mentions.
Good data points! Thank you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Blast tube |
Guess I will volunteer to be the guinea pig for testing without blast tubes.
My A&P thinks they are not needed so I am not putting them in. If I have
premature failures I will post them.
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Flying Saturday !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>I got a couple of strobe kits from Great Plains Aircraft. I think they are
>really some kind of Heathkit type of kit that Great Plains re-labels. I
>built two strobes - one works, I need to order another bulb. I potted them
>with micro slurry for vibration. I have not yet tried mounting them.
>
>They are not all that bright, but I will use them if nothing better comes
>along.
Chapter on lighting speaks to sizing the capability of a strobe.
Potential energy per flash is capacitance x volts(squared) divided
by two. Any strobe you assemble can be easily analyze for
flash energy by plugging in the numbers.
A few years ago, I saw a diagram that I think was published in
Sport Aviation way back when. It charged a 20uF capacitor to
300 volts. 20 microfarads X 300
2 divided by 2 comes out to
0.9 Joules per flash. Pretty wimpy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Two-color LED and the LR-3? |
>
>
>I don't think that the Bi-color Led's are wired that way (maybe there is one
>out there though) all of the ones that I have seen have 3 leads- an input
>for each of the led elements, and a ground- the led shown looks to be
>designed specifically for polarity sensing- is there such a thing?
Yes. see http://www.jiannwa.com.tw/con-20.htm
http://www.ledyoung.com.tw/pdf/L-1.PDF
These folks seem to be a source for
low-quantity off the shelf shipments.
http://www.sourceresearch.com/sunled/LXXX58X.cfm
The key here is "bi-color" meaning red or green
but not both. There are some red-green pairs with
a common lead where you can illuminate both
leds to get "multi-color" effects.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
>
>Bob, I made a list and tried to break it down as to what goes where. Here it
>is:
Good start. Let's water the seeds of these ideas and
see what grows out of them . . .
>Main Bus:
>Taxi lights, Strobe, Landing lights, Position lights, Panel lights, Over head
>lights
>Auto pilot,
Okay
> Vor,
VOR? are you talking about the display head? This normally
gets all operating power from the radio that drives it.
> HSI
You might want to put this on the Aux bus.
>Fuel boast pump, Right & Left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump
I think I'd put all of these on one of the battery busses.
>Pitot heat, Cooling fan, Stall warning, Flaps,
okay
> Hobbs meter
This goes on a battery bus
>
>Electric trim for Ailerons, Rudder and Stablizer
These draw very little current and are very intermittent
duty. They could go on the aux bux.
>Landing gear, Hydraulic pressure gauge
Okay
>Essential Bus:
I'm wrestling with the word "essential" in the vernacular of
airplane-speak. Essential evokes a sense of urgency in the minds
of many speakers and listeners. Auxiliary and perhaps "endurance
bus" are better phrases. I'd REALLY like to get everyone
to sign up to the idea that were NOT going to have any
electrical emergencies in our airplanes.
>Altimiter,
Is this a micro-encoder? Does it need power to operate?
> Rate of climb,
same question
> Air speed indicator,
same question
>AI, Turn and slip indicator
okay
>Directional gyro, GPS( full IFR UPS stack), Nav-Com, Transponder, Audio panel
>Goose neck light, Amp and Volt meter, Annunciator light,
okay
> Clock and Timer
Battery bus
>Primary fuel pump,
Battery bus
> Quad fuel gauges
okay
>Turn cordinator
covered above "turn and slip"
>I will also have an EM 1000 to monitor the engine.
Okay
>I know that this is not complete but I hope that it is enough to get me
>started in the right direction. Thanks Bob.
An excellent start! Take this list an re-arrange it
as suggested above. Add two battery busses to your
deliberations. Do you plan electronic ignition?
Put this(ese) on battery busses too.
This is a good exercise. Make your list look something like this:
Main Battery Bus:
#1 Ignition 3A
Hobbs 1A
.
.
Main Power Distribution Bus:
Main Alternator Field 5A
Landing light 10A
Pitot heat 15A
.
.
Aux Battery Bus
Clock 1A
#2 Ignition 3A
.
.
Aux Power Distribution Bus:
Aux Alt Field 5A
GPS 3A
A.H. 3A
.
.
When the list is complete, you'll be able to take Figure Z-14
and begin to size the bus bars (sizes of fuse blocks). Further,
each item on the list represents a page in your wire-book-to-be
that describes how that system is wired.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: relay ratings |
>
>
>czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> > If a double pole relay is rated at 30 amps, is this 30 amps per contact?
>
>The contact rating on a relay or switch is per pole. i.e. your double pole
>relay is therefore
>capable of switching two separate 30 amp circuits.
Generally accurate. SOME products like our S704-1 have de-rated
contacts for the normally closed side. I think our S704-1 is
rated at 30A for n.o. and 20A for normally closed. This is seldom
an issue but you should be aware of it.
Another point, you CANNOT parallel contacts of a two pole relay
and expect to get performance of a relay equivalent to a device
rated for twice the current without taking pains to make sure
contact pairs SHARE current. This is done with lengths of
wire to generate ballasting resistance in the legs of each
relay pole. If you are considering anything like this, lets
talk. It's generally a better idea to upsize a relay than to
stack sets of contacts on top of each other.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Burton" <notrubce(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Cooling |
Early inthe "phase 1" testing of my O-360 Glastar I placed a thermocouple right
next (within 1/4")to the alternator (a 40 amp BC) and got a temperature reading
less than 100 degrees F. The temp did rise a couple ofdegrees from no load
to full electrical load but it was not what I considered enough temp to worry
about cooling, at no time did I ever see 100 F. The engine baffles that I made
look very much like a standard Van's kit. I got the patterns from Tony Bingelis's
book on engines. FYI the outside air on the day of testing was 64F. The
firewall, at the engine control cable area was 115F and the gascolator which is
located about 4" from the Vetterman exhaust pipe was 122F but it's cooled with
a 5/8" blast tube and shroud.
Charlie Burton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcculleyja(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Magneto & Alternator Temperature Requirements |
Yup, anecdotal. It's sad that the same folks who KNOW that we
> need to know, understand and observe other performance limits
> on the airframe like Vne, stall, gross weight, density altitude,
> etc toss around other numbers on the same machines as if they
> were also important but haven't a clue as to what's really going
> on.
There is generally a source for the upper limit temperatures of the mags and
the alternator.
These limits are published in the engine manufacturer's specifications list.
For example, In the case of a Lycoming O-320 or O-360, the maximum
permissible temperature must not exceed 360F in the stator slot and stator
end turns, 248F in the drive end bearing, and 305F in the positive heat sink.
The magneto maximum permissible temperature is 225F in the pole laminations.
Usually, both alternators and mags can be purchased from their respective
manufacturers with thermocouples already installed (extra cost). Determining
the temperature that any accessory is exposed to at any particular operating
set of conditions once installed on a given airframe is the responsibility of
the airframe manufacturer (spam can or homebuilder). As already mentioned on
this list, homebuilders can and probably should instrument, as do the spam
can manufacturers, to learn the actual temperature profiles in their specific
installations. Slick, (and probably Bendix) mag manufacturers (and probably
the alternator manufacturers) will tell you (if you ask) where to locate the
temperature sensors for finding the hottest spot if you prefer to instrument
your own rather than buy one with the sensor already installed. At least I
have found this true in the case of Slick.
Jim McCulley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Anecdotal Alternator cooling |
Regarding blast cooling to an alternator, my 1988 BMW 735i runs a 100 amp
Bosch Unit. BMW saw fit to run a cooling duct to the alternator. The
alternator has a ducted rear housing with a connection for a 3.5" plastic
duct that runs to behind the front grille. It is a pretty elegant set up.
(I had to go open my hood and look at it just now before writing!)
I would guess they had a pretty good reason, those German luxury car
engineers take life pretty seriously, and it looks like a relatively
expensive set up. this alternator has a brush pak-regulator setup that
lives in the rear case section, so I guess they are cooling it..it looks
like the airflow runs in from the rear, and is sucked out the pulley end by
the alternator fan.
Anecdotal evidence, but I would be willing to bet somone did some
experimenting before engineering in this expense.
Dave Leonard
My 72 Bellanca alternator(pulley driven aft end of the engine) has blast air
to it as well...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | relay contact ratings |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
One more ignorant question about relay ratings...do the same rules apply to selecting
appropriate relay contact ratings as with toggle switches?
For example I think Bob recommends a toggle switch rated at 20 A for a 100W landing
light due to inrush. Is the same true for relays, or will a 15 A relay provide
sufficient service life?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: relay contact ratings |
>
>One more ignorant question about relay ratings...do the same rules apply
>to selecting appropriate relay contact ratings as with toggle switches?
>
>For example I think Bob recommends a toggle switch rated at 20 A for a
>100W landing light due to inrush. Is the same true for relays, or will a
>15 A relay provide sufficient service life?
You need to read the article at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
and then pretty much go buy any switch you want to
do any task you want. By-in-large, the life of switches
in airplanes has little if anything to do with their ratings.
If you find it interesting to worry about ratings, I
would not dissuade you from addressing your worries -
but I'd rather you didn't worry about them at all.
All those "rules" people are fond of citing don't
mean much for the machines we're building.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Over Voltage Protection Module |
Hi Bob,
Just wondered if the OVM-14 14V Over Voltage Protection Module works okay
with PM alternators?
I have the VLM 14PM and need to complete this area with OV protection.
Should I consider the LR3B-14 Aircraft Alternator Control System as an
alternative to OVM -14?
I also notice B&C has a new OV unit for PM alternators.
IT's nice to have so many things to look at for the job but it makes it hard
to decide which way to go....
Thanks.
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto & Alternator Temperature Requirements |
This might be really easy to do.
Go to your local welding supply store and ask for TempliStick(sp?) crayons.
They are available in many different temperatures. Just scribble some crayon
on the part. If the mark melts, the temp of the crayon has been exceeded.
Scott in VAncouver
----- Original Message -----
From: <mcculleyja(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Magneto & Alternator Temperature Requirements
>
>
> > Yup, anecdotal. It's sad that the same folks who KNOW that we
> > need to know, understand and observe other performance limits
> > on the airframe like Vne, stall, gross weight, density altitude,
> > etc toss around other numbers on the same machines as if they
> > were also important but haven't a clue as to what's really going
> > on.
>
> There is generally a source for the upper limit temperatures of the mags
and
> the alternator.
>
> These limits are published in the engine manufacturer's specifications
list.
> For example, In the case of a Lycoming O-320 or O-360, the maximum
> permissible temperature must not exceed 360F in the stator slot and stator
> end turns, 248F in the drive end bearing, and 305F in the positive heat
sink.
>
> The magneto maximum permissible temperature is 225F in the pole
laminations.
> Usually, both alternators and mags can be purchased from their respective
> manufacturers with thermocouples already installed (extra cost).
Determining
> the temperature that any accessory is exposed to at any particular
operating
> set of conditions once installed on a given airframe is the responsibility
of
> the airframe manufacturer (spam can or homebuilder). As already mentioned
on
> this list, homebuilders can and probably should instrument, as do the spam
> can manufacturers, to learn the actual temperature profiles in their
specific
> installations. Slick, (and probably Bendix) mag manufacturers (and
probably
> the alternator manufacturers) will tell you (if you ask) where to locate
the
> temperature sensors for finding the hottest spot if you prefer to
instrument
> your own rather than buy one with the sensor already installed. At least
I
> have found this true in the case of Slick.
>
> Jim McCulley
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marc cote <marcjcote(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | pin-out for a king KX-150 VHF |
Hello,
I am looking for the pin out for a bendix/king kx-150 VHF, the lighting is not
working and i suspect it is in the a/c wiring.
thanks for the help
---------------------------------
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
Hi Bob, Took your advice and reworked my system. Tell me what you think.
Main Battery Bus
Fuel boast pump, Right & left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump, Hobbs meter,
Primary fuel pump
Aux Battery Bus
Clock and timer, Electronic ignition system. Not sure what else to add to
this bus.
Main Power Dist. Bus
Taxi lights, Strobe, Landing lights, Position lights, Panel lights, Over head
lights, Auto pilot, Pitot heat, Cooling fan, Stall warning, Flaps, Hydrolic
pressure gauge, Landing gear, Attitude indicator
Aux Power Dist. Bus
HSI, Electric trim (ailerons, rudder, Stablizer), Turn and slip indicator,
Directional gyro, GPS (full IFR UPS stack), Nav Com, Transponder, Audio
panel, Goose neck light, Amp and Volt meter, Annunciator light, Quad fuel
gauges, VM 1000
When you told me how to make the list you said to do
Main Battery Bus
#1 Ignition 3A
Hobbs 1A
Am I correct in assuming that 3A is the amps that the ignition draws? I'm not
sure what the #1 means. Could you please explain?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | off line until Monday |
Dee and I are hopping on the big iron bird in the morning
headed for Oregon to do a weekend seminar. Will be back
on line Monday morning.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
Neil,
Try [ http:www.strobeguy.safeshopper.com ]. Read up on the
Superpack 906. Save a lot of money. When I first asked my FAA
safety man about these over the phone he said I would have to get
them field approved. I wasn't happy about that so I met him at a safety
meeting and showed him the specs. When he learned it was for an
had been in the electrical industry and that that was the industry
standard. I have no fear of using these. Your milage may vary. HTH.
writes:
>
>
> I'm reeling at the cost of buying these things from the standard
> aero
> suppliers for my canard A/C. I've bought some samples at auto parts
> stores
> with a plan to roll-my-own, but they all seem so dim. Also
> re-packaging
> them for wing-tip installation is an issue.
>
> Has anyone come up with a BRIGHT solution for building your own
> strobes?
>
> Thanks
> Neil Clayton
> Cozy MkIV #493
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
As an add-on to my last post I'd like to say that the specs also
say that these lights put out 80 joules. That would be 23.33
Joules per flash in a set of three. I bought the "Vans, Whelen,
Tail light/ strobe combination and the Strobes-n-more pop-in
strobes for inside the wing tips. That's got to be an easy install.
Pop-in strobes--$24.99 ea., 45 Ft. cable $15.75, three
connectors, $5.79, S-pack 906 168.99
Larry Mac Donald
> If you search on e-bay, there are various auto (police, emergency)
> strobe systems available for pretty cheap. Just search "strobe"
> there will be a buncha hits. It seems there are one or two places
> that have stores and 5 or 6 systems at a time for sale, so they
> are new. (usually $60-240 for the powersupply with some bulbs).
>
> The frustrating thing, is the darn wing tip fittings. Like you,
> my Cozy isn't too conducive to mounting the bulbs anywhere but
> the tips. They'll cost about $300 for the pair.
Neil Clayton wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Where can I get crimp connectors for an ARC 459A transponder plug.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
pulsar-builders(at)caseyk.org
2/11/2002
Free Government Gold Available -- Well anyway free government information
which can be more valuable than gold at times.
The FAA has created a CD (compact disc) that contains an unbelievable amount
of information and links to even more. I can't / won't begin to describe the
information available on this CD -- you must see it for yourself.
The title of this CD is "2002 FAA KEY TO THE INTERNET FAA PUBLICATIONS, JUNE
2002" It is much more than a key or a menu -- it contains actual documents
and links to more on the internet.
It is available free from your local FSDO -- my FSDO was happy to mail me
one. Try it, you'll like it.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
BOB:
HOPE YOU HAVE FUN IN OREGON. GOT THE WELDING CABLE YOU SUGGESTED. MY
IN-LAWS OWN A SCRAP YARD AND AHD A LOT LAYING AROUND, HOWEVER, SINCE THEY
LOOK FORWARD TO RIDING IN THE PLANE IN THE FUTURE THEY ORDERED ME 80 FEET AT
.60 CENTS A FOOT. SO I TOOK THEM UP ON THAT ONE. KNOWING THAT IT WILL BE
BETWEEN 6-9 MONTHS BEFORE I TEST FLY THE PLANE, CAN I GET THE BATTERIES NOW
SO I CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE MOUNTS?
REGARDS,
ED SILVANIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
FYI, in case anybody is interested in more info on the XPAK 904, I documented it
pretty extensively on the RV-List a couple years ago. Search for "Cometflash
on a beer budget". I'm not flying it yet but a friend of mine with an RV-8 is
using the same unit, and at the airport the other evening I saw it in operation....and
it's VERY BRIGHT. We are using Whelen strobe heads by the way...most
strobe heads including Aeroflash cannot handle the 40 joules per head that
this unit can put out. My friend is firing only two wingtip strobes, I will
be running a tail strobe as well...the unit can fire four strobe heads so it will
cover any configuration you want on an airplane...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Strobes
>
>There are certainly much cheaper power supplies that you can use with the
>aeroflash or whelen strobe tubes if you don't want to build a custom
>mount. I chose to use the Nova Electronics XPAK 904 - this is one of the
>links Bob posted:
>http://www.strobe.com/products/xpak.htm
>
>The 904 has bascially the same specs as the whelen cometflash 413 that
>drives three strobe heads. I purchased my 904 from
>http://www.strobesnmore.com for $159 dollars compared to $350+ for the
>whelen unit. There's detailed information in the RV-List archives, just
>search on XPAK. I hooked it up to my Whelen lighting units and they're
>extremely bright! It exceeds the 20 Joules per flash requirment that Bob
>mentions.
Good data points! Thank you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Just curious, why would you want all the fuel pumps on the battery bus? Is this
Seawind set up such that an electric boost pump or primary pump are required
at all times due to the high engine location? Will the engine-driven pump not
be adequate to keep it running without the elec pumps?
I can understand the desire for something like the bilge pump to be on a battery
bus, and possibly the transfer pumps (if needed for refueling?), but otherwise
wouldn't it be ok to put elec boost pumps on the Ess or Aux busses?
I'm planning to have my Lightspeed ignition system running off my battery bus,
but my elec boost pump will be on the Ess bus unless there's a compelling reason
I'm missing why it should be on my battery bus (RV-8A).
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning
>
>Bob, I made a list and tried to break it down as to what goes where. Here it
>is:
snip
>Fuel boast pump, Right & Left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump
I think I'd put all of these on one of the battery busses.
>Primary fuel pump,
Battery bus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
AeroElectric List
| Subject: | Vacuum Pump Removal |
Try any Lycoming parts house. Cover is Lycoming Part # 60430. Gasket
is Lycoming Part # 8313
Charlie
RV-6A N11CB (Res)
San Antonio
-----------------------------------
> From:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Vaccum Pump Removal
>
>
> Since I am using the all-electric approach to building I plan to remove and
> sell my vaccum pump. I have an O-235 N2C engine. I will need to install a
> cover plate and gasket on the accessory pad in place of the vaccum pump.
> Does anyone know where I can buy one already made? I haven't seen anything
> in my regular catalogues. I really don't want to make a plate for this.
> The engine and everything on it is still "certified" - so far.
> Thanks for any help.
> Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> Finish Kit 70% Complete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
AeroElectric List
| Subject: | Vacuum Pump Removal |
Just reread your message and saw where you specified an 0235 engine. The
info I sent was for an 0-320. They may be the same, but you had better
check.
My apologies.
Charlie
RV-6A N11CB (Res)
San Antonio
-----------------------------------------
> Try any Lycoming parts house. Cover is Lycoming Part # 60430. Gasket is Lycoming
Part # 8313
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A N11CB (Res)
> San Antonio
>
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> From:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Vaccum Pump Removal
>
>
> Since I am using the all-electric approach to building I plan to remove and
> sell my vaccum pump. I have an O-235 N2C engine. I will need to install a
> cover plate and gasket on the accessory pad in place of the vaccum pump.
> Does anyone know where I can buy one already made? I haven't seen anything
> in my regular catalogues. I really don't want to make a plate for this.
> The engine and everything on it is still "certified" - so far.
> Thanks for any help.
> Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> Finish Kit 70% Complete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Battery contactor running temperature |
Hi Bob,
I know you're away. This can wait till you get back if no one else chimes
in...
I was running a few tests this evening, and had the master on for maybe 10
minutes max. A few minutes later I climbed in the back to attach yet another
wire and noticed that the battery contactor was hot. Hot enough that I
wouldnt want to keep my hand on it for more than a few seconds. Is this
normal?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor running temperature |
John Slade wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob,
> I know you're away. This can wait till you get back if no one else chimes
> in...
>
> I was running a few tests this evening, and had the master on for maybe 10
> minutes max. A few minutes later I climbed in the back to attach yet another
> wire and noticed that the battery contactor was hot. Hot enough that I
> wouldnt want to keep my hand on it for more than a few seconds. Is this
> normal?
> John Slade
>
A battery contactor draws in the neighbourhood of one amp. This on a nominal 12
volt system
represents approximately 12 watts of power being dissipated by the contactor windings.
If you
imagine holding onto a 12 watt light bulb while it is illuminated you will realize
that yes this
represents quite a bit of heat and is therefore normal.
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Wiring Diagram NAT model AA80 intercom |
ANYONE HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAHM FOR A NORTHERN AIRBORNE TECHNOLOGY (NAT) INTERCOM
MODEL 80?
I COULD SURE USE ONE. TRYING TO HOOK UP A PTT AND HAVING TROUBLE.
THANKS,
NED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument holes? |
Hello,
Could anybody tell me what's the center-to-center distance for the
mounting holes for a standard 2.25" instrument? I need to fabricate a
blanking plate, and would prefer not to drive to the airport today to
measure :).
Thanks in advance,
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
From: TSaccio(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:36:30 EDT
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning
Hi Bob, Took your advice and reworked my system. Tell me what you think.
Main Battery Bus
Fuel boast pump, Right & left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump, Hobbs meter,
Primary fuel pump
Aux Battery Bus
Clock and timer, Electronic ignition system. Not sure what else to add to
this bus.
Main Power Dist. Bus
Taxi lights, Strobe, Landing lights, Position lights, Panel lights, Over head
lights, Auto pilot, Pitot heat, Cooling fan, Stall warning, Flaps, Hydrolic
pressure gauge, Landing gear, Attitude indicator
Aux Power Dist. Bus
HSI, Electric trim (ailerons, rudder, Stablizer), Turn and slip indicator,
Directional gyro, GPS (full IFR UPS stack), Nav Com, Transponder, Audio
panel, Goose neck light, Amp and Volt meter, Annunciator light, Quad fuel
gauges, VM 1000
When you told me how to make the list you said to do
Main Battery Bus
#1 Ignition 3A
Hobbs 1A
Am I correct in assuming that 3A is the amps that the ignition draws? I'm not
sure what the #1 means. Could you please explain?
Tom
Hi Bob, Took your advice and reworked my system. Tell me what you think.
Main Battery Bus
Fuel boast pump, Right left fuel transfer pump, Bilge pump, Hobbs meter, Primary
fuel pump
Aux Battery Bus
Clock and timer, Electronic ignition system. Not sure what else to add to this
bus.
Main Power Dist. Bus
Taxi lights, Strobe, Landing lights, Position lights, Panel lights, Over head lights,
Auto pilot, Pitot heat, Cooling fan, Stall warning, Flaps, Hydrolic pressure
gauge, Landing gear, Attitude indicator
Aux Power Dist. Bus
HSI, Electric trim (ailerons, rudder, Stablizer), Turn and slip indicator, Directional
gyro, GPS (full IFR UPS stack), Nav Com, Transponder, Audio panel, Goose
neck light, Amp and Volt meter, Annunciator light, Quad fuel gauges, VM 1000
When you told me how to make the list you said to do
Main Battery Bus
#1 Ignition 3A
Hobbs 1A
Am I correct in assuming that 3A is the amps that the ignition draws? I'm not sure
what the #1 means. Could you please explain?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Bob -
I bought a grounding cable from your website a couple weeks ago - the
one for the engine-to-firewall connection. The ends have some
heavy-duty looking heat shrink on them. I'm thinking of using the same
thing elsewhere under the cowl. What are the specs of the heatshrink
you used, and where can I get some more?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument holes? |
Jerry, A 2.25" instrument uses a 2.3125 hole with screw holes 2.625" CTC (.169
drill Diameter). Info is from a Aircraft Spruce catalog. Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Kaidor
To: Aeroelectric-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument holes?
Hello,
Could anybody tell me what's the center-to-center distance for the
mounting holes for a standard 2.25" instrument? I need to fabricate a
blanking plate, and would prefer not to drive to the airport today to
measure :).
Thanks in advance,
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Internally Regulated Alternator Adjustment? |
How does one accomplish an "adjustment" of the output voltage of an
internally regulated alternator?
I fly a homebuilt (I'm not the original builder) that uses an internally
regulated Hitachi alternator on a Lycoming. The alternator raises the
battery buss to a value between between 14.9 and 15.1 when the engine
runs. I'd like to replace the conventional lead-acid battery with a
"gel cell" someday and know this is too high (for either type of battery).
Thanks,
Joe
Clarkston, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kdbrv8r(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Microair T2000 Transponder |
Hi, Bob!
Can you tell me the status of my T2000 order? If you no longer have them available,
just say so and I'll go through the Microair website. You were also
going to include the encoder, antenna and harness, but that may have fallen through
as well. Awaiting your reply off-line. Thanks.
Ken Brooks
RV-8
Roscoe, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | For Steve Sampson |
Steve,
When I used the 'reply' function to answer your diesel queries,
I got the following;
" ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu
(expanded from: )
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu... User unknown
550 ... User unknown"
So call me again with a suitable return address and will email
my earlier reply.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch> |
| Subject: | Microair T2000 Transponder |
Ken,
I am convinced Microair does the best to fulfill all orders as they got
them in. There is a _huge_ demand on the market for the Microair
products, Bob will deliver as soon as he will receive your T2000 from
Australia.
Anybody planning to install Microair products should be advised to order
early enough.
Microair will no longer deliver direct to end users.
-Kurt.
Sport Aviation LLC
Microair Dealer for Switzerland
http://www.sportaviation.ch
Webmaster EAS - Experimental Aviation of Switzerland
http://www.experimental.ch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Brooks
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Microair T2000 Transponder
-->
Hi, Bob!
Can you tell me the status of my T2000 order? If you no longer have
them available, just say so and I'll go through the Microair website.
You were also going to include the encoder, antenna and harness, but
that may have fallen through as well. Await
Ken Brooks
RV-8
Roscoe, IL
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Chalmers <David(at)ChalmersFamily.com> |
| Subject: | Microair T2000 Transponder |
3 weeks ago I called American Avionics in Seattle and they had them in
stock. Got it next day.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt A. Schumacher [mailto:Kurt.Schumacher(at)schumi.ch]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Microair T2000 Transponder
Ken,
I am convinced Microair does the best to fulfill all orders as they got
them in. There is a _huge_ demand on the market for the Microair
products, Bob will deliver as soon as he will receive your T2000 from
Australia.
Anybody planning to install Microair products should be advised to order
early enough.
Microair will no longer deliver direct to end users.
-Kurt.
Sport Aviation LLC
Microair Dealer for Switzerland
http://www.sportaviation.ch
Webmaster EAS - Experimental Aviation of Switzerland
http://www.experimental.ch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Brooks
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Microair T2000 Transponder
-->
Hi, Bob!
Can you tell me the status of my T2000 order? If you no longer have
them available, just say so and I'll go through the Microair website.
You were also going to include the encoder, antenna and harness, but
that may have fallen through as well. Await
Ken Brooks
RV-8
Roscoe, IL
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Internally Regulated Alternator |
Adjustment?
Joe,
Unfortunately, the only "adjustment" you can make is to disassemble the alternator
and replace that voltage regulator
Charlie Kuss
>
>How does one accomplish an "adjustment" of the output voltage of an
>internally regulated alternator?
>
>I fly a homebuilt (I'm not the original builder) that uses an internally
>regulated Hitachi alternator on a Lycoming. The alternator raises the
>battery buss to a value between between 14.9 and 15.1 when the engine
>runs. I'd like to replace the conventional lead-acid battery with a
>"gel cell" someday and know this is too high (for either type of battery).
>
>Thanks,
>Joe
>Clarkston, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagram NAT model AA80 intercom |
>
>ANYONE HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAHM FOR A NORTHERN AIRBORNE TECHNOLOGY (NAT)
>INTERCOM MODEL 80?
>
>I COULD SURE USE ONE. TRYING TO HOOK UP A PTT AND HAVING TROUBLE.
>
>THANKS,
>NED
I have the installation manual which includes the following models.
aa80-001, aa80-020, aa80-060. aa80-062
I can scan it and send it to you if you want it.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
zodiac 601hds
ea81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Spade connectors |
Hi AeroElectric Listers,
I am brand new to this list, I hope I am not asking a newbie question
that averyone is tired of hearing.
I am looking very seriously at using Subaru power for my RV-7 from
Eggenfellner Aircraft. They recommend using the EXBUS from control vision.
The EXBUS uses automotive type spade connectors and the installation manual
for the Eggennfellner package shows them being used in many places.
All of the certified aircrarft that I have been involved with used ring
terminals with lock wahers and a screw to hold connections together. So my
question is this. Are the spade connectors really OK for airplanes? Would
you consider using them on an airplane that requires electricity to keep
it's engine running?
Maybe there are poor quality spade connectors that give them a bad
reputation but the ones people put in their experimental airplanes are of
much better quality?
I appreciate any opinions on this.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument holes? |
In an old Aircraft Spruce catalog shows that the holes are centered on a 2
and 5/8" diameter circle 45 degrees off the vertical.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument holes?
>
> Hello,
>
> Could anybody tell me what's the center-to-center distance for the
> mounting holes for a standard 2.25" instrument? I need to fabricate a
> blanking plate, and would prefer not to drive to the airport today to
> measure :).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | NAVAID & PTT Diode |
Hello friends,
For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
Thanks!
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spade connectors |
Check Bob's answer at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/faston3.pdf.
And the answer is yes.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Spade connectors
>
> Hi AeroElectric Listers,
> I am brand new to this list, I hope I am not asking a newbie question
> that averyone is tired of hearing.
> I am looking very seriously at using Subaru power for my RV-7 from
> Eggenfellner Aircraft. They recommend using the EXBUS from control vision.
> The EXBUS uses automotive type spade connectors and the installation
manual
> for the Eggennfellner package shows them being used in many places.
> All of the certified aircrarft that I have been involved with used
ring
> terminals with lock wahers and a screw to hold connections together. So my
> question is this. Are the spade connectors really OK for airplanes? Would
> you consider using them on an airplane that requires electricity to keep
> it's engine running?
> Maybe there are poor quality spade connectors that give them a bad
> reputation but the ones people put in their experimental airplanes are of
> much better quality?
> I appreciate any opinions on this.
> Randy
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument holes? |
Thanks Cy! And Ken. And Dave.
I did look in the Aircraft Spruce catalog before asking, but now they
only have a three-inch kind. I guess they decided it was more beneficial to
spend their paper on stuff to sell, rather than on free engineering info. I
can't say I blame them - that catalog must cost a MINT to put out.
I needed it to make a mounting plate for the remote control for my new
ACK ELT - made necessary because the existing ELT in my Sundowner is
obsolete, and even its battery is obsolete. In fact, the battery that
replaced the original obsolete battery is now obsolete! Since the ELT
cannot legally be re-batteried, it must be replaced. Luckily, it's annual
time, and almost enough stuff to route the cable needs to come apart anyway.
I figured that it would be best to mount the remote control panel in an
instrument hole, so as not to bugger up the instrument panel, or ( horror! )
hang the thing on a bracket below.
Again, thank you all for the information!
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument holes?
>
> In an old Aircraft Spruce catalog shows that the holes are centered on a 2
> and 5/8" diameter circle 45 degrees off the vertical.
>
> Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
> Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
> www.bellanca-championclub.com
> We support Aeroncas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument holes?
>
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Could anybody tell me what's the center-to-center distance for the
> > mounting holes for a standard 2.25" instrument? I need to fabricate a
> > blanking plate, and would prefer not to drive to the airport today to
> > measure :).
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Laurence <dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
For those of you who asked me about the info for the roll your own
ennunciator--
For the engraving:
Guillermo Valledor
305-821-3424
valgreencopr.msn.com
For the lights:( fiber oprtic ribbon)
Ken Whitaker
562-776-9494
fiberlite(at)email.msn
for the board
Wayne Lanza
561-664-8953
wlanza(at)iu.net
Peter Laurence
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
>
>
>Hello friends,
>
>For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
>a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
>I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
>
>I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
I'm mystified as to what the Navaid has to do
with any wiring to the PTT switch. On who's
drawing is the diode mentioned and what notes
support the option decision?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagram NAT model AA80 intercom |
>
>ANYONE HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAHM FOR A NORTHERN AIRBORNE TECHNOLOGY (NAT)
>INTERCOM MODEL 80?
>
>I COULD SURE USE ONE. TRYING TO HOOK UP A PTT AND HAVING TROUBLE.
>
>THANKS,
>NED
Here's a copy of the pinout data I have
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/NAT80.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob -
>
>I bought a grounding cable from your website a couple weeks ago - the
>one for the engine-to-firewall connection. The ends have some
>heavy-duty looking heat shrink on them. I'm thinking of using the same
>thing elsewhere under the cowl. What are the specs of the heatshrink
>you used, and where can I get some more?
Call Todd at B&C and see if he can fix you up.
The internal melting wall heat shrink is described
at
http://www.alphawire.com/pages/125.cfm
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, CMDR David" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - USING LEDS |
Folks,
I am looking at using a couple of LEDs to indicate things like fuel pump on,
pitot heat on, maybe low fuel or oil pressure. Most LEDs seem to like
2-5volts. So how do I provide that voltage electrically - a step down device
to a 5v mini bus? In line resisters to each?
I cant see any advice in the AeroElectric Connection on these aspects.
Appreciate any help
David Francis, VH-ZEE
Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >Hello friends,
> >
> >For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
> >a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
> >I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
> >
> >I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
>
> I'm mystified as to what the Navaid has to do
> with any wiring to the PTT switch. On who's
> drawing is the diode mentioned and what notes
> support the option decision?
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, the diode is intended to momentarily disconnect the servo from the
control head (I don't recall if it interrupts power or signal) when the
PTT is activated. Apparently there have been some cases where RFI or
something upset the servo during radio transmissions. The diode is shown
on Navaid's installation diagrams.
I included the diode in my Navaid installation even though I have no
idea if it is necessary. The only downside of it is when I have allowed
the plane to get significantly out of trim due to fuel imbalance; a
slight roll will occur when the PTT is used.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 425 hrs with Navaid)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
Per the Navaid installation instructions, the diode in series with the PTT
switch disengages the Navaid servo when transmitting. I did not do this in
my installation and have found this is a problem. Hitting the PTT causes a
very pronounce stick bump. I will be putting in this mod the next time I
pull the panel. Other than this the Navaid works as advertised. Program
the track into the GX-60, turn it on away you go.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (40 hour fly off completed today)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode
>
>
>Hello friends,
>
>For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
>a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
>I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
>
>I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
I'm mystified as to what the Navaid has to do
with any wiring to the PTT switch. On who's
drawing is the diode mentioned and what notes
support the option decision?
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone will
know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the garage
separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I ran
door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell uses. A
low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I needed
at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
Thanks for any help,
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Folks,
>I am looking at using a couple of LEDs to indicate things like fuel pump on,
>pitot heat on, maybe low fuel or oil pressure. Most LEDs seem to like
>2-5volts. So how do I provide that voltage electrically - a step down device
>to a 5v mini bus? In line resisters to each?
Red LEDs are about 2v, Whites are almost 4v with other colors
in that range. All can be operated with a simple resistor in series
to set rated operating current for operation at any voltage greater
than the minimum required for the device.
See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Internally Regulated Alternator Adjustment? |
>
>How does one accomplish an "adjustment" of the output voltage of an
>internally regulated alternator?
>
>I fly a homebuilt (I'm not the original builder) that uses an internally
>regulated Hitachi alternator on a Lycoming. The alternator raises the
>battery buss to a value between between 14.9 and 15.1 when the engine
>runs. I'd like to replace the conventional lead-acid battery with a
>"gel cell" someday and know this is too high (for either type of battery).
You sure you really want to put a gel-cell battery in your airplane?
They're getting pretty rare and don't perform nearly as well as
either the flooded or RG (recombinant-gas) batteries. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
the only fix for the too-high output voltage is to
replace the alternator's built-in regulator.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
Sam -
I believe that some of the problem here is that "PTT" has taken on too
many meanings to be of use as an acronym - at least on this list. One
is: Push-To-Talk. Another is: Push-To-Test, and yours is
"Push-To-disconnecT. Maybe someone on the list can can come up with a
more descriptive acronym for your situation.
Mine is "APED": Auto Pilot Emergency Disconnect
Cheers,
John Schroeder
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> >
> > >For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
> > >a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
> > >I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
>
>Hi Bob, Took your advice and reworked my system. Tell me what you think.
>
>MAIN BATTERY BUS
>Fuel boast pump
>Right Fuel transfer pump,
>Left Fuel transfer pump
>Bilge pump
>Hobbs meter,
>Primary fuel pump
Keep the listing one line per powered device . . we'll add
protection sizes to each item later
A total of 4 electric fuel pumps? How are they interconnected
and how are they used?
>AUX BATTERY BUS
>Clock and timer
>Electronic ignition system.
I take it you're planning a single electronic ignition?
>MAIN POWER DISTRIBUTION BUS
>Taxi lights
>Strobe
>Landing lights
>Position lights
>Panel lights
>Over head lights
Would this be used as a nighttime courtesy light?
Maybe it would work better on one of the battery busses
so it could be used with the master switches off.
>
>Auto pilot
>Pitot heat
>Cooling fan
. . . for radios? If so probably should be on same
bus as radios.
>Stall warning
I'd run this from a battery bus
>Flaps
>Hydrolic pressure gauge
Is this an electrically powered instrument?
>Landing gear
Hydraulic pump? Probably run this right from the
main battery contactor through its own ANL current
limiter.
> Attitude indicator
>AUX POWER DISTRIBUTION BUS
>HSI
>Roll trim
>Yaw trim
>Pitch Trim
>Turn and slip indicator,
>Directional gyro
A DG in addition to the HSI?
>GPS
>Nav Com
>Transponder
>Audio panel
>Goose neck light
Move this to a battery bus
>Volt meter
With switch to monitor either bus and either battery
>Loadmeter
With switch to monitor either alternator. What kind
of ammetere would you use here? Does it take 14 VDC to
operate?
>Annunciator light
What gets annunicated?
>Quad fuel gauges
>VM 1000
The VM1000 has voltmeter/loadmeter capabilities.
You may not need the loadmeter and voltmeter cited
above.
>When you told me how to make the list you said to do
>Main Battery Bus
>#1 Ignition 3A
>Hobbs 1A
>
>Am I correct in assuming that 3A is the amps that the ignition draws? I'm not
>sure what the #1 means. Could you please explain?
No, size of the fuse/breaker that will protect the circuit.
We're working toward building your first drawing which is
the power distribution diagram.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pin-out for a king KX-150 VHF |
>
>
>Hello,
>
>I am looking for the pin out for a bendix/king kx-150 VHF, the lighting is
>not working and i suspect it is in the a/c wiring.
Sorry, that's not included in my library of drawings.
can anyone else help out?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ARC connectors |
>
>
>Where can I get crimp connectors for an ARC 459A transponder plug.
>Ted
I don't know what style connector that is. Can
you e-mail me a photograph?
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
>
>BOB:
>
> HOPE YOU HAVE FUN IN OREGON. GOT THE WELDING CABLE YOU SUGGESTED. MY
>IN-LAWS OWN A SCRAP YARD AND AHD A LOT LAYING AROUND, HOWEVER, SINCE THEY
>LOOK FORWARD TO RIDING IN THE PLANE IN THE FUTURE THEY ORDERED ME 80 FEET AT
>.60 CENTS A FOOT. SO I TOOK THEM UP ON THAT ONE. KNOWING THAT IT WILL BE
>BETWEEN 6-9 MONTHS BEFORE I TEST FLY THE PLANE, CAN I GET THE BATTERIES NOW
>SO I CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE MOUNTS?
I wouldn't buy a battery until the day before first flight.
Make the trays using dimensions off the batteries. Which batteries
are you planning on using?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
>
>
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >Hello friends,
> > >
> > >For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
> > >a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
> > >I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
> > >
> > >I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
> >
> > I'm mystified as to what the Navaid has to do
> > with any wiring to the PTT switch. On who's
> > drawing is the diode mentioned and what notes
> > support the option decision?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
>Bob, the diode is intended to momentarily disconnect the servo from the
>control head (I don't recall if it interrupts power or signal) when the
>PTT is activated. Apparently there have been some cases where RFI or
>something upset the servo during radio transmissions. The diode is shown
>on Navaid's installation diagrams.
>
>I included the diode in my Navaid installation even though I have no
>idea if it is necessary. The only downside of it is when I have allowed
>the plane to get significantly out of trim due to fuel imbalance; a
>slight roll will occur when the PTT is used.
Interesting! If you can't live with the stress, just shut it
off during stress . . . I'm not sure I'd take that approach
to solving an RF interference problem but I guess it would
work.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
>
>
>This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone will
>know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the garage
>separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I ran
>door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
>
>Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell uses. A
>low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
>contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I needed
>at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
>industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>Randy
Look up motor starter or contactor on ebay. They are often rated in hp but
sometimes
in amps. The rating given for the controlling switch part is the "coil
voltage". You need one
with at least 2 poles for 220 volts so you can switch both wires at the
same time.
If you get one with 110 or 220 volt coil you will not need a transformer.
Make sure
your bell wire is rated for that if you do. A in line fuse(S) to protect
the wire to your
switch would be good also for the higher volt control would be good too.
A transformer should be on the same circuit as the compressor is. That way
if you shut the breaker off the transformer is off. Or put one of those pieces
that lock the separate breakers together in the breaker panel box.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
ch601hds
ea81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Bob -
A couple months ago you recommended a power supply that was on sale at
Radio Shack. I got one. It's working great the little I've used it so
far.
I bet you have a similar device, and a cleaver setup for the
wire/probes/clips coming out the back for + and -. I could reinvent the
wheel, or just ask for a description of yours.
Thanks.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
Bob:
I believe you recommended two 17 amp RG batteries? As a recap, I am
building the Lancair ES, all electric panel. I will have an IO-520 "D"
engine. Engine gauges will be EI, Electronics International, Avionics will be
a Garmin Stack--Garman-340 AUD/COM, GNS-530, GNS-430, GTX-327 TRANSPONDER.
TruTrak 2 axis A/P. As I have mentioned to you before, I was interested in
the BMA EFIS/ONE. Could not get any positive response, however, I am
beginning to hear good things about the EFIS/Lite inwhich some folks are
using as their Primary PFD. In fact one person has installed it in a YAK
doing acro! and loves it. It certainly would look better proportioned using
this. It would allow for the standard 3 1/8 instruments to surround it as
backup, just like the Airbus I fly. I have written BMA for the dimensions to
see how the panel will lay out. What do you think?
I will have a list of possible switches for you soon. I am following
your conversation about the Seawind build up. Thanks. By the way I have
found two electric gyros. Made in 1987, and have been yellow tagged, whatever
that means. $600.00 for one $1,000.00 for two, which would fulfill my
primary, stby system should the BMA not become a good course of action. What
do you think?
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internally Regulated Alternator Adjustment? |
> Unfortunately, the only "adjustment" you can make is to disassemble
> the alternator and replace that voltage regulator
That's not the answer I wanted to hear, Charlie .
Is it possible I've overlooked something in the hookup of the
alternator? Other than a "B" lead and ground, it has only two other
terminals: "S" and "L".
The original builder connected battery voltage (through the alternator
switch and "field" CB) to the "S" terminal but the alternator would not
start up until engine RPM exceeded 2400 (apparently no field excitation;
only residual magnetism). A local automotive electrical shop suggested
that the "L" terminal was used for startup by supplying its current
through the dashboard's alternator warning light.
So I moved the lead from the "S" terminal to the "L" terminal (after
inserting a 20-ohm series resistor) and now it starts right up.
But could a battery voltage connection to the "S" terminal still be
needed? Perhaps with no connection it floats, hence the 15-volts of output.
Another thought is to try a well-heatsunk, heavy-duty silicon diode in
series with the alternator's "B" lead to drop about 1 volt. Any
thoughts on that approach if "Plan A" above doesn't work?
--
Joe
> From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Internally Regulated Alternator
> Adjustment?
>
>
> Joe,
> Unfortunately, the only "adjustment" you can make is to disassemble
the alternator and replace that voltage regulator
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>>
>>How does one accomplish an "adjustment" of the output voltage of an
>>internally regulated alternator?
>>
>>I fly a homebuilt (I'm not the original builder) that uses an internally
>>regulated Hitachi alternator on a Lycoming. The alternator raises the
>>battery buss to a value between between 14.9 and 15.1 when the engine
>>runs. I'd like to replace the conventional lead-acid battery with a
>>"gel cell" someday and know this is too high (for either type of battery).
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Joe
>>Clarkston, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
Randy,
You don't even need the doorbell wire. I have my compressor mounted in one
end of my house, in the shop, and can control it from there, the door to the
shop, my garage at the other end of the house or my master bedroom (for when
I'm lying in bed and realize I forgot to turn it off).
What you need is any X-10 control switch (one or more) and an x-10 220v
appliance module. I originally bought mine at www.smarthome.com. Working
great for 4 years now. No wires, the switch just sends a code down the ac
line in the house and the module picks it up and turns on or off as sent.
If you have more questions, let me know.
Russ Werner
HR II
Maui
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Remote Compressor Switch
>
> This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone
will
> know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the
garage
> separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I
ran
> door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
>
> Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell uses.
A
> low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
> contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I
needed
> at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
> industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Randy
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
Thanks Jim, that really helps get me pointed in the right direction. Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Lucy" <jpollard(at)mnsi.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Remote Compressor Switch
>
> >
> >
> >This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone
will
> >know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the
garage
> >separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I
ran
> >door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
> >
> >Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell
uses. A
> >low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
> >contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I
needed
> >at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
> >industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
> >
> >Thanks for any help,
> >Randy
>
>
> Look up motor starter or contactor on ebay. They are often rated in hp but
> sometimes
> in amps. The rating given for the controlling switch part is the "coil
> voltage". You need one
> with at least 2 poles for 220 volts so you can switch both wires at the
> same time.
> If you get one with 110 or 220 volt coil you will not need a transformer.
> Make sure
> your bell wire is rated for that if you do. A in line fuse(S) to protect
> the wire to your
> switch would be good also for the higher volt control would be good too.
> A transformer should be on the same circuit as the compressor is. That way
> if you shut the breaker off the transformer is off. Or put one of those
pieces
> that lock the separate breakers together in the breaker panel box.
>
> Jim Pollard
> Merlin Ont
> ch601hds
> ea81
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
Hello Ed,
> the BMA EFIS/ONE. Could not get any positive response, however, I am
> beginning to hear good things about the EFIS/Lite inwhich some folks are
> using as their Primary PFD. In fact one person has installed it in a YAK
We had some messages about two month ago, where a user reported, that in a
standard rate turn, after 270 deg the gyro just got off the trak, I'm not
sure they fixed their problem, but it seems then it was not reliable enough
for IFR
> found two electric gyros. Made in 1987, and have been yellow tagged,
whatever
> that means. $600.00 for one $1,000.00 for two, which would fulfill my
I have currently a similar thing a RC Allen gyro for 600$, I let it check
with an instrument shop, it starts very late (13V), noisy bearings and
after removing power stops immediately. They recommend a reconditoning
(~700$) which makes it still cheaper then a new one.
Kind regards
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - USING LEDS |
This could be as complex as building a small power supply using a 7805
voltage regulator, or the simpler way is to just properly size a series
resistor. I'm sure Bob has some info somewhere on this subject.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Francis, CMDR David
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - USING LEDS
Folks,
I am looking at using a couple of LEDs to indicate things like fuel pump
on,
pitot heat on, maybe low fuel or oil pressure. Most LEDs seem to like
2-5volts. So how do I provide that voltage electrically - a step down
device
to a 5v mini bus? In line resisters to each?
I cant see any advice in the AeroElectric Connection on these aspects.
Appreciate any help
David Francis, VH-ZEE
Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
You just need a size1 motor starter. Siemens, Allen-Bradley, etc, all
make these, and they are used routinely in factories. They have
overloads on them to protect the motor in case of overcurrent or single
phase, and they have a coil (usually 110vac) that can be controlled
remotely like you mention. Bad thing is that they are usually about
150-200 bucks, so I don't know if that is worthwhile to you.
If you didn't want the overload protection, you could accomplish the
same thing with individual solenoids or relays like we use in our
planes, operated by 12vdc. This would work, but require a transformer.
There is another methold, although I don't condone it, but I have seen
it done more than once in my plant (unfortunately). You can also use a
simple light switch (DPST) and run 2 of the three phases through the
remote mounted light switch to turn it on and off. One leg will always
be hot to the motor, but this will not hurt it, just makes it an
electrical hazard if you have to work on it. Again, I don't condone it,
but it will work, and will definitely be the cheapest method.
May I ask why you want it remote controlled? Maybe there is a simpler
solution.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Crothers
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Remote Compressor Switch
This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone
will
know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the
garage
separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I
ran
door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell
uses. A
low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I
needed
at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
Thanks for any help,
Randy
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Matt Dralle Appreciation Month . . . |
Every year about this time, many of us dig into our pockets
and send a donation to Matt to help defray the costs of
supporting dozens of list-servers offered at basically
no cost to anyone who chooses to take advantage of this
fantastic service.
Being half owner in the 'Connection's server and having barely got
my feet wet with learning to set it up and maintain it, I can tell
you that Matt's offerings are at least 100x more complex and 10x
more expensive than my meager efforts at becoming cyber-wise.
I can well appreciate the skill, time and expense it takes to
accomplish what he has accomplished on our behalf.
Please do a little calculating on what it's worth to you
for access to Matt's hardware and programming skills that
have kept us all in touch over the last year. Drop a
little something in the mail to him - or contact him
by the medium of your choice from list below. He can
take plastic too.
Matt G Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Voice 925-606-1001
Fax 925-606-6281
Email: dralle(at)matronics.com
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Remote Compressor Switch |
>
>
>You just need a size1 motor starter. Siemens, Allen-Bradley, etc, all
>make these, and they are used routinely in factories. They have
>overloads on them to protect the motor in case of overcurrent or single
>phase, and they have a coil (usually 110vac) that can be controlled
>remotely like you mention. Bad thing is that they are usually about
>150-200 bucks, so I don't know if that is worthwhile to you.
Here's a couple on e-bay for a lot less than that.
Both offerings end soon and neither one has a bid on
it at this time. If they don't sell, you can contact
the offering party directly using info from these links
below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1775867122
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1774907122
>If you didn't want the overload protection, you could accomplish the
>same thing with individual solenoids or relays like we use in our
>planes, operated by 12vdc. This would work, but require a transformer.
>There is another methold, although I don't condone it, but I have seen
>it done more than once in my plant (unfortunately). You can also use a
>simple light switch (DPST) and run 2 of the three phases through the
>remote mounted light switch to turn it on and off. One leg will always
>be hot to the motor, but this will not hurt it, just makes it an
>electrical hazard if you have to work on it. Again, I don't condone it,
>but it will work, and will definitely be the cheapest method.
I think he has a single phase machine . . . the contactors
above are 3-pole . . . but he can simply ignore one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob -
>
>A couple months ago you recommended a power supply that was on sale at
>Radio Shack. I got one. It's working great the little I've used it so
>far.
>
>I bet you have a similar device, and a cleaver setup for the
>wire/probes/clips coming out the back for + and -. I could reinvent the
>wheel, or just ask for a description of yours.
When I sold those power supplies for a time,
I offered a 10AWG set of extension leads that
made it easy to connect the power supply's (+)
lead to the alternator b-lead terminal and the
(-) lead to handy ground (like crankcase or
single point ground block). This allowed the
13.8 volt power supply to pretend like it
is an alternator. If you wanted to take the
simulation a tad further, configure a 12v
relay to control 110 VAC going to the power
supply. Disconnect the alternator's field lead
and use it to drive the relay's coil. This
makes your DC PWR MASTER switch function just
as if the engine was running.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> |
Larry Bowen wrote:
> I bet you have a similar device, and a cleaver setup for the
> wire/probes/clips coming out the back for + and -.
I used to use "GR Plugs" for 12V bench distribution. GR plugs are a pair of
banana plugs sticking out one end, and a matching pair of jacks on the other
end. They can plug into a pair of banana jacks spaced .75 inches. I found
a long skinny aluminum chassis, and mounted several pairs of banana jacks on
it, all spaced .75, with black ones on the bottom, and red ones on the top.
Then wired them all in parallel.
The GR plugs can be stacked, so you can plug two or three items into one
"jack"
( pair of banana jacks ). Their current capacity is quite high. I have
put 20A through
a GR plug, and it didn't even warm up!
"GR" btw stands for General Radio, which was a test equipment company.
Wonder if they're still around?
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bench PS
>
> Bob -
>
> A couple months ago you recommended a power supply that was on sale at
> Radio Shack. I got one. It's working great the little I've used it so
> far.
>
> I bet you have a similar device, and a cleaver setup for the
> wire/probes/clips coming out the back for + and -. I could reinvent the
> wheel, or just ask for a description of yours.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
| From: | Vince Ackerman <vack(at)teleport.com> |
on 10/14/02 6:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
>
>>
>> BOB:
>>
>> HOPE YOU HAVE FUN IN OREGON. GOT THE WELDING CABLE YOU SUGGESTED. MY
>> IN-LAWS OWN A SCRAP YARD AND AHD A LOT LAYING AROUND, HOWEVER, SINCE THEY
>> LOOK FORWARD TO RIDING IN THE PLANE IN THE FUTURE THEY ORDERED ME 80 FEET AT
>> .60 CENTS A FOOT. SO I TOOK THEM UP ON THAT ONE. KNOWING THAT IT WILL BE
>> BETWEEN 6-9 MONTHS BEFORE I TEST FLY THE PLANE, CAN I GET THE BATTERIES NOW
>> SO I CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE MOUNTS?
>
>
> I wouldn't buy a battery until the day before first flight.
> Make the trays using dimensions off the batteries. Which batteries
> are you planning on using?
>
> Bob . . .
>
I have a battery that came with my kit 3 years ago. It is still in the box
and never been filled with distilled water. Is there a problem with using
it? Should I go buy a new one?
Thanks
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 10/14/02 |
Bob:
The Navaid Devices autopilot had some problems with spurious roll inputs in
some installations when the radio was transmitting (it's an older design, as
you know).
The suggestion is in the installation manual (a supplement, I believe)
saying that the optional PTT wiring to the autopilot would momentarily
interrupt the power to the servo when you transmit, preventing roll
excursions during that few seconds.
I'm going to pull a wire for it, and see what happens with mine when I fly
mine
Ron
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode
>
>
> >
> >
> >Hello friends,
> >
> >For those of you using a Navaid Devices autopilot with
> >a VFR panel (no VOR and only 1 VHF), do you (or should
> >I) connect the optional diode to the PTT switch?
> >
> >I'll be using an Apollo SL-40 COM.
>
> I'm mystified as to what the Navaid has to do
> with any wiring to the PTT switch. On who's
> drawing is the diode mentioned and what notes
> support the option decision?
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
>
>on 10/14/02 6:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> BOB:
> >>
> >> HOPE YOU HAVE FUN IN OREGON. GOT THE WELDING CABLE YOU SUGGESTED. MY
> >> IN-LAWS OWN A SCRAP YARD AND AHD A LOT LAYING AROUND, HOWEVER, SINCE THEY
> >> LOOK FORWARD TO RIDING IN THE PLANE IN THE FUTURE THEY ORDERED ME 80
> FEET AT
> >> .60 CENTS A FOOT. SO I TOOK THEM UP ON THAT ONE. KNOWING THAT IT WILL BE
> >> BETWEEN 6-9 MONTHS BEFORE I TEST FLY THE PLANE, CAN I GET THE
> BATTERIES NOW
> >> SO I CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE MOUNTS?
> >
> >
> > I wouldn't buy a battery until the day before first flight.
> > Make the trays using dimensions off the batteries. Which batteries
> > are you planning on using?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>I have a battery that came with my kit 3 years ago. It is still in the box
>and never been filled with distilled water. Is there a problem with using
>it? Should I go buy a new one?
If it's still dry, it will probably perform as well as
can be expected for a flooded battery. I wouldn't fly
one in my airplane. Are you planning one or two batteries?
Your original note suggested two. You might use your
flooded battery as a test battery but plan on new
RG batteries for first flight.
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rino <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
Vince Ackerman wrote:
>
>
> on 10/14/02 6:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> BOB:
> >>
> >> HOPE YOU HAVE FUN IN OREGON. GOT THE WELDING CABLE YOU SUGGESTED. MY
> >> IN-LAWS OWN A SCRAP YARD AND AHD A LOT LAYING AROUND, HOWEVER, SINCE THEY
> >> LOOK FORWARD TO RIDING IN THE PLANE IN THE FUTURE THEY ORDERED ME 80 FEET
AT
> >> .60 CENTS A FOOT. SO I TOOK THEM UP ON THAT ONE. KNOWING THAT IT WILL BE
> >> BETWEEN 6-9 MONTHS BEFORE I TEST FLY THE PLANE, CAN I GET THE BATTERIES NOW
> >> SO I CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE MOUNTS?
> >
> >
> > I wouldn't buy a battery until the day before first flight.
> > Make the trays using dimensions off the batteries. Which batteries
> > are you planning on using?
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> I have a battery that came with my kit 3 years ago. It is still in the box
> and never been filled with distilled water. Is there a problem with using
> it? Should I go buy a new one?
>
> Thanks
>
> Vince
Hi Vance,
It is most probably ELECTROLYTE that you have to use to fill your
battery. In that case your battery is brand new the moment you add the
Electrolyte to it. (electrolyte = a mixture of acid and water)
Thats what I did, buy the battery now to have the right dimensions --
fill it when you are ready.
Rino
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Compressor Switch |
Shannon, thanks for the information. My hangar / shop is under my house, I
live on an airpark. My garage and compressor is up on the top side of the
property and separate from the house. And if course I have a small leak
somewhere! It is nice to have the compressor so far away as I can barely
hear it when it turns on but it is a long way to go to turn it off at night
when I am done working. So that big compressor keeps cycling all night
unless I go out there and turn it off. Last night I did order a few X10
components from Smarthome.com. A little expensive for the 30 AMP controller
at $100 but I think it will be worthwhile for me. The X10 is controlled via
signals transmitted through the AC wiring. Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Remote Compressor Switch
>
> You just need a size1 motor starter. Siemens, Allen-Bradley, etc, all
> make these, and they are used routinely in factories. They have
> overloads on them to protect the motor in case of overcurrent or single
> phase, and they have a coil (usually 110vac) that can be controlled
> remotely like you mention. Bad thing is that they are usually about
> 150-200 bucks, so I don't know if that is worthwhile to you.
>
> If you didn't want the overload protection, you could accomplish the
> same thing with individual solenoids or relays like we use in our
> planes, operated by 12vdc. This would work, but require a transformer.
>
> There is another methold, although I don't condone it, but I have seen
> it done more than once in my plant (unfortunately). You can also use a
> simple light switch (DPST) and run 2 of the three phases through the
> remote mounted light switch to turn it on and off. One leg will always
> be hot to the motor, but this will not hurt it, just makes it an
> electrical hazard if you have to work on it. Again, I don't condone it,
> but it will work, and will definitely be the cheapest method.
>
> May I ask why you want it remote controlled? Maybe there is a simpler
> solution.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> Crothers
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Remote Compressor Switch
>
>
>
> This question is a little on the heavy duty side but I suspect someone
> will
> know what I need. I have a 22.5 Amp 230 Volt compressor. It is in the
> garage
> separate from my shop space. I want to switch it on and off remotely. I
> ran
> door bell wire through conduit ahead of time anticipating doing this.
>
> Here is what I think I need. Probably a transformer like a door bell
> uses. A
> low voltage switch to activate on the remote end. A solenoid activated
> contactor to handle the above specified load. I tried to find what I
> needed
> at Home Depot but no luck. Is this kind of switching only available from
> industrial type outlets? Am I on the right track here?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Randy
>
>
> >
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Larry Bowen wrote:
> > I bet you have a similar device, and a cleaver setup for the
> > wire/probes/clips coming out the back for + and -.
>
>I used to use "GR Plugs" for 12V bench distribution. GR plugs are a pair of
>banana plugs sticking out one end, and a matching pair of jacks on the other
>end. They can plug into a pair of banana jacks spaced .75 inches. I found
>a long skinny aluminum chassis, and mounted several pairs of banana jacks on
>it, all spaced .75, with black ones on the bottom, and red ones on the top.
>Then wired them all in parallel.
>
> The GR plugs can be stacked, so you can plug two or three items into one
>"jack"
>( pair of banana jacks ). Their current capacity is quite high. I have
>put 20A through
>a GR plug, and it didn't even warm up!
>
> "GR" btw stands for General Radio, which was a test equipment company.
>Wonder if they're still around?
Only a ghost of the original company remains. They got out
of the RF business a number of years ago and concentrated on
high speed automated test equipment for etched circuit
board assembly testing. They sold out that operation
a few years back to
http://www.teradyne.com/prods/prodserv.html
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAVAID & PTT Diode |
>
>
>Sam -
>
>I believe that some of the problem here is that "PTT" has taken on too
>many meanings to be of use as an acronym - at least on this list. One
>is: Push-To-Talk. Another is: Push-To-Test, and yours is
>"Push-To-disconnecT. Maybe someone on the list can can come up with a
>more descriptive acronym for your situation.
>
>Mine is "APED": Auto Pilot Emergency Disconnect
Bizjets have buttons called "Wheel Master Disconnects"
that shut down all motor driven flight control surfaces
(a/p and trim servos) with the press of a single button.
There's another button on some aircraft called "Control
Wheel Steering" that disconnects autopilot steering for
duration of switch depression. Once released, the a/p
resumes it's last condition.
In this case, a "PTT" input to the autopilot is somewhat
analogous to "Control Wheel Steering" in that it temporarily
disables the autopilot . . . but for the wrong reasons.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| My interest is in the future, because I'm going to |
| spend the rest of my life there. -C.F. Kettering- |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: standing up to be counted. . . |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>This is just the way life is, you know. The inventor of the Xerox copier
>was turned down by dozens of non-government corporate bureaucrats.
. . . and even after the Xerox process became a runaway
success, the same people who were snubbed by the copier
marketplace failed to see the future in adapting the
technology to laser printers. Even when the laser
printer was first brought to life in Xerox's own
Palo Alto labs, it was up to other companies to show
them how to make $mucho$ with the idea.
> The
>auto and airplane were derided as silly ideas till they were
>demonstrated. The developer of Fed Express got a poor grade for his thesis
>outlining the design of the system.
>
>Railing against bureaucrats is like pissing into the wind, an expression I
>learned while growing up in north central Kansas.
There was a time when I would agree with that . . .
now I think there is an increasing awareness of
current trends and predicable futures for some
of the paths our leadership has mapped out for
us. The Internet is an important feature of this
new awareness.
Irrespective of whether or not you agree with
anything I have to offer, how often do you write
your congress-persons? Even when the details
of your opinion are mis-understood or mis-filed
by the recipient, they are acutely aware of the
numbers of folk who are watching and expressing
themselves.
I write several times a week on various issues,
usually at http://www.congress.org/ But if
the issue is particularly important to me, the
letters go out priority mail.
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>RV6-a N7HK flying!
>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the |
| discomfort of thought. ~ John F. Kennedy |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
To make it even simpler, Radio Shack offers assemblies of red, green, and
orange LEDs (276-270, 276-271, 276-272, respectively) that have the resistor
installed internally so all are rated at 12VDC (16VDC max).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USING LEDS
>
>
>Folks,
>I am looking at using a couple of LEDs to indicate things like fuel pump
on,
>pitot heat on, maybe low fuel or oil pressure. Most LEDs seem to like
>2-5volts. So how do I provide that voltage electrically - a step down
device
>to a 5v mini bus? In line resisters to each?
Red LEDs are about 2v, Whites are almost 4v with other colors
in that range. All can be operated with a simple resistor in series
to set rated operating current for operation at any voltage greater
than the minimum required for the device.
See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marlys" <marlysp(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Phone Interface |
Ian
I've built a few of theses, not a lot of problems.
You will need a way of increasing the op from the phone headset, normally
less than 100 ohms.
There is never enough gain to overcome the cabin noise.
Next, a two input mic mixer to combine your headset mic and the phone mic.
This can all be assemble into a small project box with connectors that plug
into your IC, and
a cable going to the phone. This is very similar to the ones seen in the
mags except it will work.
Good luck
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Phone Interface
>
> I have a Motorolla Satellite Phone 9505 that I want to Wire up a Hands
> free interface to the headset.
>
> The phone has a 3 connector plug for a personal hands free. Mike,
> earphone and a common ground I assume.
>
> How easy would it be to wire a plug that would let me plug in the
> headset.
>
> Is there any special thing that I need to do re Impedances?
>
> Any other hints
>
> Thanks Bob.
>
> Ian
>
>
> - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: standing up to be counted. . . |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >This is just the way life is, you know. The inventor of the Xerox copier
> >was turned down by dozens of non-government corporate bureaucrats.
>
> . . . and even after the Xerox process became a runaway
> success, the same people who were snubbed by the copier
> marketplace failed to see the future in adapting the
> technology to laser printers. Even when the laser
> printer was first brought to life in Xerox's own
> Palo Alto labs, it was up to other companies to show
> them how to make $mucho$ with the idea.
>
*** Xerox also invented Ethernet, but did they make any money off it? A
couple of guys working for Xerox had the bright idea of doing Ethernet over
unshielded twisted pair ( telephone wire ). Xerox didn't want to pursue the
idea, so they quit and founded SynOptics - which I joined in 1990. LOTTA
money got made on that one....
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Dorothy <frankv(at)infogen.net.nz> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - USING LEDS |
At 00:41 16/10/2002, you wrote:
>
>
>This could be as complex as building a small power supply using a 7805
>voltage regulator, or the simpler way is to just properly size a series
>resistor. I'm sure Bob has some info somewhere on this subject.
By coincidence, I was looking at a Kitplanes article on this just
yesterday... came from the September 2000 issue. The short answer is a
resistor of at least 600 ohms is right for a single LED in a 14V electrical
system. If you have several LEDs is series, the resistor value drops.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: standing up to be counted. . . |
> >
>*** Xerox also invented Ethernet, but did they make any money off it? A
>couple of guys working for Xerox had the bright idea of doing Ethernet over
>unshielded twisted pair ( telephone wire ). Xerox didn't want to pursue the
>idea, so they quit and founded SynOptics - which I joined in 1990. LOTTA
>money got made on that one....
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
One of Dee's textbooks for a course she took was "Dealers
of Lightning", a history of Xerox PARC based on interviews
of the folks that built the division and did a whole lot
of things for the first time including windows, personal
computers, laser printing, word processing and data base
programs, graphics capable of animation displays, digital
communication via laser, and probably a dozen other things
I don't immediately recall.
A fascinating read if you get a chance to put your hands
on a copy. Amazon has some used copies for $10.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | dual battery switch |
Since I am planning on having dual batteries, I still can't figure out when I would
shut down the aux battery master and still keep the main battery master.
I would think that if I want the main batter contactor off, I would also want
the aux contactor off. If that is the case, could I just have a master switch
to turn on/off both the main and aux contactors?
I plan on having a switch to drive the e-bus from either the main battery bus or
the aux battery bus. This way, on an alternator runaway or over volt trip,
I turn on the alt e-feed from one or both of the battery busses and turn off
the master switch which would turn off the master/aux contactors.
Am I missing something here?
Bob
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: standing up to be counted. . . |
>
>FWIW, I have a copy of an article entitled "Predicting The Future," given
>at the
>20th annual meeting of the Stanford Computer Forum by Alan Kay, one of the
>founding principals of PARC. His thesis there is that the way to predict the
>future is to invent it, as Bob indicates. He talks about a study done by the
>railroads just after WWI that showed that airline transportation would
>always be
>more expensive than that provided by the railroads, with the obvious (and
>incorrect) conclusion.
>
>Bill Steer
Found an excerpt from that piece. Did you the whole thing
on the 'net anywhere?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
I coud'nt either.... so I decided to operate both
contactors from a single master switch. However, I
added to momentary off switches so I can test each
contactor individually. The good side is that my
system is really simple to use and anyone familiar
with the Cessnas will be able to operate my electrical
system. I also have the aux inition and the e-bus
switches.
The negative side is that I have a single point of
failure for both contactors (the master switch).
However, failure of the switch won't prevent the big
ventilator on the nose of the plane to keep the cabin
cool (ign and fuel pumps are on battery busses). And
I still have the e-bus feed switch separate.
Michel
PS: I should be able to publish my electrical system
drawings soon if I can find time to update my web
site.
--- Bob Kuc wrote:
>
>
> Since I am planning on having dual batteries, I
> still can't figure out when I would shut down the
> aux battery master and still keep the main battery
> master. I would think that if I want the main
> batter contactor off, I would also want the aux
> contactor off. If that is the case, could I just
> have a master switch to turn on/off both the main
> and aux contactors?
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
>
>--- Bob Kuc wrote:
> >
> >
> > Since I am planning on having dual batteries, I
> > still can't figure out when I would shut down the
> > aux battery master and still keep the main battery
> > master. I would think that if I want the main
> > batter contactor off, I would also want the aux
> > contactor off. If that is the case, could I just
> > have a master switch to turn on/off both the main
> > and aux contactors?
> >
>I coud'nt either.... so I decided to operate both
>contactors from a single master switch. However, I
>added to momentary off switches so I can test each
>contactor individually. The good side is that my
>system is really simple to use and anyone familiar
>with the Cessnas will be able to operate my electrical
>system. I also have the aux inition and the e-bus
>switches.
Why would you want to have your year 2002 airplane
emulate a year 1960 airplane? By adding
the press-to-test switches, your system has become
more complex than as-published. If a Cessna driver
needs to check out in your airplane, what's so
complicated about both switches ON for normal
ops and both switches OFF for parking the airplane?
It's during alternator failed operations that your
airplane is unlike anything pushed out the doors
of places where spam is canned. Your guest
pilot is going to need a checkout anyhow if he/she
is to take advantage of the improvements his Cessna
will never have.
I can't see how you've gained anything . . .
>The negative side is that I have a single point of
>failure for both contactors (the master switch).
>However, failure of the switch won't prevent the big
>ventilator on the nose of the plane to keep the cabin
>cool (ign and fuel pumps are on battery busses). And
>I still have the e-bus feed switch separate.
>
>Michel
>PS: I should be able to publish my electrical system
>drawings soon if I can find time to update my web
>site.
If one has two batteries then it is presumed that
you have truly flight critical equipment that
would benefit from separate power sources during
alternator-out conditions when maximum endurance is needed
from battery only operations.
Depending on your particular airplane's equipment
I think its most likely that when the alternator
quits, you turn off BOTH masters and run in the
redundant battery, max endurance mode with engine
powered only from aux battery and e-bus only from
main battery.
When the airport is in sight, the main battery
master COULD be turned on to allow showing lights
or other tasks driven from the main bus while leaving
the aux battery free to keep the engine running
irrespective of the outcome for the main battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
>
>Since I am planning on having dual batteries, I still can't figure out
>when I would shut down the aux battery master and still keep the main
>battery master. I would think that if I want the main batter contactor
>off, I would also want the aux contactor off. If that is the case, could
>I just have a master switch to turn on/off both the main and aux contactors?
>
>I plan on having a switch to drive the e-bus from either the main battery
>bus or the aux battery bus. This way, on an alternator runaway or over
>volt trip, I turn on the alt e-feed from one or both of the battery
>busses and turn off the master switch which would turn off the master/aux
>contactors.
>
>Am I missing something here?
Why does this need to be more complicated? If you have two
batteries, then each battery has a task to itself. I presume
you're planning to maintain both batteries so that each is
assured of the capacity needed to comfortably complete
the flight. IF so, what condition do you anticipate that you'll
want to drive the e-bus from the aux battery?
The reason for two batteries is to have one shielded
from all loads EXCEPT keeping the engine running.
Flipping the e-bus to the aux battery would be necessary
only if you've exhausted the main battery which means
you (1) didn't do your homework and put too much
load on it or (2) didn't do your homework and maintain
the battery for sufficient endurance to the task. In either
case, you don't move the e-bus to the aux battery.
This is when you whip out the flight-bag standbys.
The last thing I'd do is saddle the aux battery with
additional loads.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
| Subject: | Strobes - tail assembly |
Bob wrote in a reply to a roll your own strobe question:
"
Did some websearching and had thousands of hits for
suppliers/manufacturers of vehicular warning strobe
systems. Here's just a small sample.
etc."
I have decided to do just this but have the problem of combining the tail light
and strobe tube. I don't want to use the Whelen unit since its power output
is less than the supply I plan to use and I object to the price. I have been
considering making an array of LEDs to surround the the tube but I'm a little
unsure as to a) how many at 5000mcd I will need and b) how to power this.
Advice will be appreciated.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley.
RV9A fuselage. N919RV resvd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
Bob:
Her is a list of some of the equipment I will have concerning how many
and what type of toggle switches I should have. Cabin Fan, for a blower that
will be ducted into the main stream of the NACA air scoop. Cabin lights which
I have 4 individual reading lights that have there own on/off switch, a
toggle switch here would be the master control sort of speak. High/Low boost
toggle switch, perhaps a 3 way switch, off, low and high. I quess this is
required with fuel injected engines. Landing light. Taxi light - left, taxi
light -right. I have modified my wing tip position lights to have some Auto
Zone high intensity lights for taxi. Nav lights, Strobe lights. Pitot heat.
AOA system. Cargo are light. Looking at the Z-12, Switches for the Main DC,
Aux DC. I have the ACS ignition switch, reading a lot about electronic
ignition; don't really know what the advantage would be to have this. If
recommended, can I upgrade later or just wire it up now? Basically, looking
at the Z-12, other than the obvious things, i.e., lights, pumps; can you just
tell me what toggle switches to order, the wire required and I'll get going.
Received my 6,10,and 20 fuse bus boxes today. These I presume are for the +
side of power, what do you recommend for a ground bus? I suspect I would need
three, firewall, instrument panel, and one back near the batteries where
servos, strobe power supply could hook up to. Going to send you some
attachments of some of the stuff Lancair makes available to see what you
think.
Regards,
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off line until Monday |
Bob:
Here is the regulator, alternate alternator, bus bar, fasteners. Power
distribution grid. What do you think of all this stuff?
Regards,
ED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
> The reason for two batteries is to have one shielded
> from all loads EXCEPT keeping the engine running.
> Flipping the e-bus to the aux battery would be necessary
> only if you've exhausted the main battery which means
> you (1) didn't do your homework and put too much
> load on it or (2) didn't do your homework and maintain
> the battery for sufficient endurance to the task. In either
> case, you don't move the e-bus to the aux battery.
>
> This is when you whip out the flight-bag standbys.
> The last thing I'd do is saddle the aux battery with
> additional loads.
>
The thought is more of parts reduction then emulation. If the aux always
follows the master, then using the same switch would make it less
complicated and reduce your part count by one. Since you don't move the
e-bus to the aux, then just having a master switch that controls both
contactors and alternate to e-bus switch would be all that is needed.
With this assumption, there should also be no need to monitor the voltage
level on the aux bus, since it is the same during normal operation, and
e-bus is the essential one to monitor.
Bob
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
> The thought is more of parts reduction then emulation. If the aux always
> follows the master, then using the same switch would make it less
> complicated and reduce your part count by one.
Would it be a good habit to alternate starting between the batteries?
This would give a backup indication of poor battery condition.
Just a thought.
John Slade
Cozy IV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Predicting the Future |
Small note about predictions--in 1967 Keuffel & Esser, the sliderule people,
contracted for a sophisticated analysis of technology 1000 years in the future.
This study generated glowing predictions of domed cities and even 3D television
in
2067, but failed to predict that nobody would need sliderules just 5 years later.
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: standing up to be counted. . . |
| From: | Vince Ackerman <vack(at)teleport.com> |
on 10/15/02 9:08 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> This is just the way life is, you know. The inventor of the Xerox copier
>> was turned down by dozens of non-government corporate bureaucrats.
>
> . . . and even after the Xerox process became a runaway
> success, the same people who were snubbed by the copier
> marketplace failed to see the future in adapting the
> technology to laser printers. Even when the laser
> printer was first brought to life in Xerox's own
> Palo Alto labs, it was up to other companies to show
> them how to make $mucho$ with the idea.
>
>
>> The
>> auto and airplane were derided as silly ideas till they were
Don't forget that Xerox also came up with the Graphical User Interface which
was basically copied by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak to became the Apple
Macintosh (which was subsequently copied by Microsoft to become windows).
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: diode jumper |
>Bob.......thanks for the responses. You must have answered my question on
>the E-bus isolation diode in the attachment to your response, but for some
>reason, I didn't get the attachment.......just the "paperclip."
>
>The original question was:
>
>Regarding the e-bus isolation diode: Why not put a jumper between the two
>ac signal inputs, so you have two diodes in parallel? Wouldn't that
>reduce the voltgage drop across the diode to the e-bus?
The voltage drop across a diode is a fairly fixed quantity. It's
not like a resistor wherein paralleling two resistors will cut the
voltage drop in half. This is known as the "barrier hill potential"
junction voltage that is a function of the materials from which the junction
is made. For many years after the rise of silicon devices as
material of choice for new design, germanium devices continued to
be manufactured because their barrier hill potential was on the
order of 0.25 volts . . . about a third that of their silicon
cousins.
Paralleling diodes to increase their current carrying ability is
also problematical. One has to match the two diodes carefully to
insure that they share the load. In our case, any diode in the
bridge rectifier array is able to carry our loads nicely on its
own so the other three diodes are just along for the ride.
The reason for using the bridge rectifier array is the convenience
with which it can be mounted and wired. No other diode product
with similar current and voltage ratings is so user friendly.
It really bugs some people that there are three diodes left over
that don't do anything for us . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes - tail assembly |
>
>Bob wrote in a reply to a roll your own strobe question:
>"
> Did some websearching and had thousands of hits for
> suppliers/manufacturers of vehicular warning strobe
> systems. Here's just a small sample.
>
>etc."
>
>I have decided to do just this but have the problem of combining the tail
>light and strobe tube. I don't want to use the Whelen unit since its
>power output is less than the supply I plan to use and I object to the
>price. I have been considering making an array of LEDs to surround the
>the tube but I'm a little unsure as to a) how many at 5000mcd I will need
>and b) how to power this.
>
>Advice will be appreciated.
>
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley.
>RV9A fuselage. N919RV resvd.
Whelen has a white LED nav tail light that's TSO'd . . . but not
cheap. It's presently being installed on the tail of the Beechjet.
The array of LEDs to do this task is something on the order
of 50-75 lamps. Whelen uses surface mount lamps on etched
circuit boards. They also have to be oriented to achieve the
spherical radiation pattern that mimics a light bulb. I think
I go with two separate fixtures . . . or switch to the silly
but qualified, dual lamp fixtures on the wings and forget the
nav light for the tail.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
>
>Bob:
>
> Her is a list of some of the equipment I will have concerning how
> many
>and what type of toggle switches I should have. Cabin Fan, for a blower that
>will be ducted into the main stream of the NACA air scoop. Cabin lights which
>I have 4 individual reading lights that have there own on/off switch, a
>toggle switch here would be the master control sort of speak. High/Low boost
>toggle switch, perhaps a 3 way switch, off, low and high. I quess this is
>required with fuel injected engines. Landing light. Taxi light - left, taxi
>light -right. I have modified my wing tip position lights to have some Auto
>Zone high intensity lights for taxi. Nav lights, Strobe lights. Pitot heat.
>AOA system. Cargo are light. Looking at the Z-12, Switches for the Main DC,
>Aux DC. I have the ACS ignition switch, reading a lot about electronic
>ignition; don't really know what the advantage would be to have this. If
>recommended, can I upgrade later or just wire it up now? Basically, looking
>at the Z-12, other than the obvious things, i.e., lights, pumps; can you just
>tell me what toggle switches to order, the wire required and I'll get going.
>Received my 6,10,and 20 fuse bus boxes today. These I presume are for the +
>side of power, what do you recommend for a ground bus? I suspect I would need
>three, firewall, instrument panel, and one back near the batteries where
>servos, strobe power supply could hook up to. Going to send you some
>attachments of some of the stuff Lancair makes available to see what you
>think.
Don't send anything yet. First, take the list of things you've cited
and organize them based upon the architecture for the power distribution
diagram you plan to use. Do the list like we've been working on
for Tom's Seawind that has been thrashed to some extent here on the
list.
Until this list is complete and accurate, you're not ready to order
parts.
You've got a composite airplane - you'll need a "busy ground
bus" . . . I'd use the 48 pin device shown in the website catalog.
I'd bring ground for every electrically powered device to this
single ground point.
Let's get your paperwork finished first. Go through the list
postings of the last few days and find a message with the subject
Seawind - Rudimentary system planning
Start building a list like that for your airplane and post it here
on the list with the subject "Ed's Lancair system planning" and
lets comb it out on the list.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
>
>Bob:
>
> Here is the regulator, alternate alternator, bus bar, fasteners.
> Power
>distribution grid. What do you think of all this stuff?
>
>Regards,
>
>ED
I presume you had some attachments to your e-mail response
to the list. Be aware that the list server doesn't forward
any kind of attachments. I'll arrange to look at them via
direct mail when we get your paperwork done.
I've also changed the subject line to match what we're
talking about so those with an interest/disinterest in this
conversation can chose to open the messages or not.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
>
> > The reason for two batteries is to have one shielded
> > from all loads EXCEPT keeping the engine running.
> > Flipping the e-bus to the aux battery would be necessary
> > only if you've exhausted the main battery which means
> > you (1) didn't do your homework and put too much
> > load on it or (2) didn't do your homework and maintain
> > the battery for sufficient endurance to the task. In either
> > case, you don't move the e-bus to the aux battery.
> >
> > This is when you whip out the flight-bag standbys.
> > The last thing I'd do is saddle the aux battery with
> > additional loads.
> >
>
>The thought is more of parts reduction then emulation. If the aux always
>follows the master, then using the same switch would make it less
>complicated and reduce your part count by one. Since you don't move the
>e-bus to the aux, then just having a master switch that controls both
>contactors and alternate to e-bus switch would be all that is needed.
The AUX does not follow or lead anything. Normal operations for both
batteries calls for moving the switches together but in no particular
order.
>With this assumption, there should also be no need to monitor the voltage
>level on the aux bus, since it is the same during normal operation, and
>e-bus is the essential one to monitor.
I'm lost. Which architecture are you talking about? I thought
we were discussing a single alternator, two battery system.
Main bus, e-bus, main battery bus, aux battery bus. Now you
seem to be discussing something else.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
>
> > The thought is more of parts reduction then emulation. If the aux always
> > follows the master, then using the same switch would make it less
> > complicated and reduce your part count by one.
>Would it be a good habit to alternate starting between the batteries?
>This would give a backup indication of poor battery condition.
>Just a thought.
If your main battery is always less than one year old
and your aux battery is less than two years old, this
should never be a concern . . . but you could certainly
do it. I'd always start with both batteries to reduce
wear and tear on other system components. The faster the
engine starts, the lower the stress on components that
get the engine started.
Testing of batteries should be a maintenance activity
needed only if you're modus operandi calls for periodic
capacity checks and replacement on measured conditions.
With periodic replacement well inside the battery's expected
useful life, testing of any kind is less useful . . .
How about doing a one-battery start every oil change?
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Internally Regulated Alternator Adjustment? |
>Bob,
>
>Earlier I wrote:
>
> > I'd like to replace the conventional lead-acid battery with a
> >"gel cell" someday and know this is too high (for either type of
>
>You responded:
>
>[snip]
> > You sure you really want to put a gel-cell battery in your airplane?
> > They're getting pretty rare and don't perform nearly as well as
> > either the flooded or RG (recombinant-gas) batteries. See:
>[snip]
>
>You're absolutely right -- RG is what I want. I couldn't remember
>the correct name for it; hence the "gel cell" (in quotes).
>
>And while I have you attention, please let me express my gratitude for
>your time and effort on the AeroElectric List. I'm a long-time lurker
>and have learned a lot by reading your responses.
I figured that was the case. Just rattling your cage a little.
I'm trying to get folks to purge the term "gel-cell" from the
vernacular of battery-speak unless that's what they're
REALLY talking about.
Thank you for the kind words.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
> >With this assumption, there should also be no need to monitor the voltage
> >level on the aux bus, since it is the same during normal operation, and
> >e-bus is the essential one to monitor.
>
> I'm lost. Which architecture are you talking about? I thought
> we were discussing a single alternator, two battery system.
> Main bus, e-bus, main battery bus, aux battery bus. Now you
> seem to be discussing something else.
>
I am. Right now I am building a system to monitor voltage in the plane.
With the alt working, then the whole system will have the same voltage, the
voltage from the alternator. However, in an alternator out situation, my
volts drop < 13. I would think that I would need to monitor the voltage
level to at least down to 10 volts remaining, where I better be on the
ground. I am planning on monitoring the voltage level off from the e-bus.
Since the aux battery doesn't have as much load on it as the main battery,
and the main battery is driving the e-bus, I don't think that I would
need to monitor the voltage level on the aux battery bus.
Bob
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
Bob:
Excellent advise. Yes, I have kept copies of all the seawind
discussion. I will refer to them now and do my homework assignments. I will
order the 48 pin ground point. Thanks for your response, I will use your Ed's
Lancair-System planning as reference from here on out.
Regards,
ED
N823MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
Bob:
OK. I have them ready to go when the time comes.
Regards,
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
Ed -
What kind of Lancair are you building? We are building a Super ES
(IO-550N) and are looking at Z-14 as the power distribution plan. This
system calls for dual alternators and 2 batteries. We'll buy the 20 amp
alternator from B&C, along with 2 of the regulators.
I've done a lot of work in AutoCAD, drawing relevant circuits for
avionics power, adding things to the busses (#1, #2, #1 battery & #2
battery), labeling the diagram and adding equipment numbers to it. I
then make an entry in an Excel sheet with the number, nomenclature,
where-to-buy, part number (if known), power rating and other information
for each piece of electrical gear in the wire book. Regarding the ground
busses: We'll have one on the firewall and directly behind it on the
cabin side of the firewall will be another 48. Both of these will use
two common bolts to bind them together and fasten them to the firewall.
A ground strap goes from the firewall ground bus to the engine.
Right now, we have one channel of the FADEC (or electronic ignition) on
each battery bus. The avionics are on the small (20 amp alternator) bus.
If you would like to see what I have, let me know and I'll email the
files to you.
Looking forward to watching yours "get combed out" on this list. It will
be productive for us, too.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
Lancair Super ES
>
> Bob:
>
> Excellent advise. Yes, I have kept copies of all the seawind
> discussion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
Hi Bob, Here is my revised list as per your suggestions:
Main Battery Bus:
Full boast pump
Rt wing fuel transfer pump ( aux tank to main tank )
Left wing fuel transfer pump ( aux tank to main tank )
Transfer pump ( left wing to right wing )
Transfer pump ( right wing to left wing )
Bilge pump
Primary fuel pump
Hobbs meter
Over head curtesy lights
Aux Battery Bus:
Clock/timer
Stall warning
Goose neck light
Main Power Distribution Bus:
Taxi lights
Strobe lights
Landing lights
Position lights
Panel lights
Auto pilot
Flaps
Hydraulic pressure pump (needs power)
Attitude indicator
Pitot Heat
Aux Power Distribution Bus:
HSI
Electronic trim for ( ailerons, rudder, stabilizer)
Turn and slip indicator
GPS (Full IFR UPS stack)
Nav Com
Transponder
Audio panel
Quad fuel gauges
Cooling fan for radios
VM 1000
There are six fuel pumps. 2 pumps to transfer fuel from aux tanks to main
tanks.
2 pumps to transfer fuel from left wing to right wing and vice-versa.
1 pump to bring fuel up to the engine.
1 high altitude pump.
There is also the pump that is on the engine.
Do you think that all the fuel pumps should be on the same bus? If not which
pumps do I put on which bus?
I am also told that the altimeter, Rate of climb indicator, and air speed
indicator need power to operate and that they have built in encoders.
What bus should the be hooked up to?
Thanks for your patience,
Tom Saccio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Load meter & Volt Meter |
In a dual battery / dual alternator setup, why is it important (or is it
important) to have a volt meter and/or ameter for each system if you have
the alternator low voltage indicator lights from the LR-3 regulators?
If they are important, do they need to be visible all the time or just on
runup/problem time? Is it something you should be checking in flight?
It appears to me that if the volts are good (as indicated by the low volt
warning lights), then the alternators are working (volts & amps should be
fine).
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning
>
> >
> >Bob:
> >
> > Her is a list of some of the equipment I will have concerning how
> > many
> >and what type of toggle switches I should have. Cabin Fan, for a blower
that
> >will be ducted into the main stream of the NACA air scoop. Cabin lights
which
> >I have 4 individual reading lights that have there own on/off switch, a
> >toggle switch here would be the master control sort of speak. High/Low
boost
> >toggle switch, perhaps a 3 way switch, off, low and high. I quess this is
> >required with fuel injected engines. Landing light. Taxi light - left,
taxi
> >light -right. I have modified my wing tip position lights to have some
Auto
> >Zone high intensity lights for taxi. Nav lights, Strobe lights. Pitot
heat.
> >AOA system. Cargo are light. Looking at the Z-12, Switches for the Main
DC,
> >Aux DC. I have the ACS ignition switch, reading a lot about electronic
> >ignition; don't really know what the advantage would be to have this. If
> >recommended, can I upgrade later or just wire it up now? Basically,
looking
> >at the Z-12, other than the obvious things, i.e., lights, pumps; can you
just
> >tell me what toggle switches to order, the wire required and I'll get
going.
> >Received my 6,10,and 20 fuse bus boxes today. These I presume are for the
+
> >side of power, what do you recommend for a ground bus? I suspect I would
need
> >three, firewall, instrument panel, and one back near the batteries where
> >servos, strobe power supply could hook up to. Going to send you some
> >attachments of some of the stuff Lancair makes available to see what you
> >think.
>
> Don't send anything yet. First, take the list of things you've cited
> and organize them based upon the architecture for the power
distribution
> diagram you plan to use. Do the list like we've been working on
> for Tom's Seawind that has been thrashed to some extent here on the
> list.
>
> Until this list is complete and accurate, you're not ready to order
> parts.
>
> You've got a composite airplane - you'll need a "busy ground
> bus" . . . I'd use the 48 pin device shown in the website catalog.
> I'd bring ground for every electrically powered device to this
> single ground point.
>
> Let's get your paperwork finished first. Go through the list
> postings of the last few days and find a message with the subject
> Seawind - Rudimentary system planning
>
> Start building a list like that for your airplane and post it here
> on the list with the subject "Ed's Lancair system planning" and
> lets comb it out on the list.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dual battery switch |
>
> > >With this assumption, there should also be no need to monitor the voltage
> > >level on the aux bus, since it is the same during normal operation, and
> > >e-bus is the essential one to monitor.
> >
> > I'm lost. Which architecture are you talking about? I thought
> > we were discussing a single alternator, two battery system.
> > Main bus, e-bus, main battery bus, aux battery bus. Now you
> > seem to be discussing something else.
> >
>I am. Right now I am building a system to monitor voltage in the plane.
>With the alt working, then the whole system will have the same voltage, the
>voltage from the alternator.
. . . actually not true. E-bus runs about .7 volts lower than
main bus.
> However, in an alternator out situation, my
>volts drop < 13. I would think that I would need to monitor the voltage
>level to at least down to 10 volts remaining, where I better be on the
>ground.
. . . are you saying that you're not SURE that you can
run battery-only loads for duration of remaining fuel?
What stands in the way of making this a sure thing?
Voltmeters and ammeters make for good diagnostic tools
(that's why we added the field voltage measurement feature
to the Loadmeter/Voltmeter product). By-in-large, one should
be able to configure and maintain a system in a manner that
lets you fly with confidence having only a low volts warning
light as your total electrical system instrumentation.
> I am planning on monitoring the voltage level off from the e-bus.
>Since the aux battery doesn't have as much load on it as the main battery,
>and the main battery is driving the e-bus, I don't think that I would
>need to monitor the voltage level on the aux battery bus.
Correct. Is this a single-alternator/dual-battery system? The
Loadmeter/Voltmeter system we used to sell featured a relay
that when energize from the main bus, feeds the voltmeter
from the main bus. When the main bus shuts down, the relay
drops out and transfers the voltmeter to the e-bus.
I think the last time I responded to this thread, we were
discussing combining both battery contactors onto a single
switch . . . and someone mentions adding press-to-test
buttons to allow single battery cranking as a means of
pre-flight testing.
I was hoping that we agreed there's a valid reason for
putting each battery on its own switch.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
>
>Bob:
>
> Excellent advise. Yes, I have kept copies of all the seawind
>discussion. I will refer to them now and do my homework assignments. I will
>order the 48 pin ground point. Thanks for your response, I will use your Ed's
>Lancair-System planning as reference from here on out.
Let's get started on yours too. Go ahead and post a first pass
at it.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John's Lancair - System planning |
>
>
>Ed -
>
>What kind of Lancair are you building? We are building a Super ES
>(IO-550N) and are looking at Z-14 as the power distribution plan. This
>system calls for dual alternators and 2 batteries. We'll buy the 20 amp
>alternator from B&C, along with 2 of the regulators.
>
>I've done a lot of work in AutoCAD, drawing relevant circuits for
>avionics power, adding things to the busses (#1, #2, #1 battery & #2
>battery), labeling the diagram and adding equipment numbers to it. I
>then make an entry in an Excel sheet with the number, nomenclature,
>where-to-buy, part number (if known), power rating and other information
>for each piece of electrical gear in the wire book. Regarding the ground
>busses: We'll have one on the firewall and directly behind it on the
>cabin side of the firewall will be another 48. Both of these will use
>two common bolts to bind them together and fasten them to the firewall.
>A ground strap goes from the firewall ground bus to the engine.
>
>Right now, we have one channel of the FADEC (or electronic ignition) on
>each battery bus. The avionics are on the small (20 amp alternator) bus.
>
>If you would like to see what I have, let me know and I'll email the
>files to you.
Could you be talked into publishing them? I'd be pleased to post
them on my server and link them for general access by anyone interested.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Load meter & Volt Meter |
>
>In a dual battery / dual alternator setup, why is it important (or is it
>important) to have a volt meter and/or ameter for each system if you have
>the alternator low voltage indicator lights from the LR-3 regulators?
>
>If they are important, do they need to be visible all the time or just on
>runup/problem time? Is it something you should be checking in flight?
>
>It appears to me that if the volts are good (as indicated by the low volt
>warning lights), then the alternators are working (volts & amps should be
>fine).
>
>- Jim
. . . an astute observation my friend.
Electrical system gages are mostly useful for diagnostics
while trouble shooting a system. It's quite practical to
consider the low volts warning lights as your primary and
only necessary flight instrumentation for the electrical
system(s).
If the lights are out, cool. If a light is lit, then we
should KNOW that we've got enough battery aboard that
we'll put the wheels back on the ground without breaking
a sweat.
Then, if the only measurement tools for fixing the system
are those you pull out of your toolbox, I don't see that
as a big problem. If the automotive industry had put a
calibrated and trustworthy low volts warning light on
cars back about 45 years ago, perhaps the "idiot light"
might have been named the "smart light".
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
John:
Thank you for writing me. Since Lancair has left me in the dark on
this part of the building project it was beginning to get a little
discouraging. Since I have talked to Bob on the phone and net, I am getting a
better big picture. I would love to have anything you have that would help me
through this process. Here is a snap shot of where I am now.
I acquired kit #59. I have been working on it about a year and a half.
I am about to close the left wing; just finished the left flap closeout.
Ready to close out the left aileron, however, my hang up there is the wiring
of the servo. Some have routed to the inboard, others to the outboard. I am
running a plastic tubing for the wire, and I am looking for some simple
connectors so as to remove the aileron if necessary. I have the horizontal
stab on, the vertical stab, on, half a rudder. I made an inspection plate for
the com antenna connections, again running a plastic tube so as to replace
faulty wire if need be. Once the left side is done I am sure the right side
will go faster.
Avionics was, I have just bought a Gagman stack: AUD/COM 340, GNS-530,
GNS-430, GTX-327. Will be installing the elevator servo for the TRUTRAK 200
or 250, haven't decided yet. I will also be going dual alt/batt. I am looking
at the Z-12 plan. Is that the same as your Z-14? Perhaps I need to be
updated. I have version 10 of the Aeroelectric Connection? I am thinking
seriously about the BMA EFIS/Lite for my PFD. Talked to them yesterday and
they may make the same size HSI. I have heard better news about this item
vise the EFIS/ONE. At any rate I will go with all electric gauges that I can
find and afford. Any recommendations here?
Engine: I just ordered an IO-520 "D", 300hp. I will be going with a
rear belt driven 60amp ALT in the rear. I also will be going with the 20amp
BC ALT.
I do not have AUTOCAD, but I just ordered Bob's CD-ROM. Additionally I
bought one 20 fuse box, one 10 fuse box, and a 6 fuse box just for starters.
I will be installing the batteries on each side of the elevator idler. Any
recommendations? Bob recommended welding cable so I bought 80 feet @ .60
cents a foot. I have just learned from Bob about the 48 ground bus, I like
what you did.
I am going with toggle switches, and my latest assignment from Bob is
to what goes on each bus.
There you have it. We have 4 Lancair's here in the Memphis area going
on right now. I am the only Super ES. One guy is near completion on his IVP
and is going to sell me his cowling, carbon fiber, because he had to modify
another one to fit his three intercoolers. I am also getting his box that he
made for the cabin blower, since he has now gone with an airconditiong
system. Have you installed a cabin blower?
I currently work for FedEx, so I will be out for the next few days. I
appreciate your time and info, if there is anything that I can do, let me
know.
Regards,
Ed SIlvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
(901) 409-7807
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | loadmeter/voltmeter |
Speaking of which, Bob, I was planning to use one of your
loadmeter/voltmeters in my RV-6 project and was disappointed that you
discontinued them. I held off buying one until I was closer to needing
it and now they are no more. Are you thinking about selling them again?
I'll buy one.
Ed Holyoke
>Voltmeters and ammeters make for good diagnostic tools
(that's why we added the field voltage measurement feature
to the Loadmeter/Voltmeter product). By-in-large, one should
be able to configure and maintain a system in a manner that
lets you fly with confidence having only a low volts warning
light as your total electrical system instrumentation.
> I am planning on monitoring the voltage level off from the e-bus.
>Since the aux battery doesn't have as much load on it as the main
battery,
>and the main battery is driving the e-bus, I don't think that I would
>need to monitor the voltage level on the aux battery bus.
Correct. Is this a single-alternator/dual-battery system? The
Loadmeter/Voltmeter system we used to sell featured a relay
that when energize from the main bus, feeds the voltmeter
from the main bus. When the main bus shuts down, the relay
drops out and transfers the voltmeter to the e-bus.
I think the last time I responded to this thread, we were
discussing combining both battery contactors onto a single
switch . . . and someone mentions adding press-to-test
buttons to allow single battery cranking as a means of
pre-flight testing.
I was hoping that we agreed there's a valid reason for
putting each battery on its own switch.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
=
=
=
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Kaidor" <jerry(at)tr2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: loadmeter/voltmeter |
*** Speaking of voltmeters, I was at the auto parts store, and there was a
cute little digital voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket.
I had to have it. Now it lives in my Sundowner. I don't smoke :).
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ed's Lancair - System planning |
Bob:
I have selected the following busses based on what I have seen and
read. I will admit, however, it was hard not to include avionics bus, ground
bus, essential bus, and emergency bus.
MAIN POWER DISTRIBUTION BUS:
Attitude indicator either as primary or backup. Looking at the
EFIS/Lite from BMA which has had better performance than what I have heard
about the EFIS/ONE.
Nav lights
Strobe
Taxi light left
Landing light
Autopilot
Electric Flaps
Pitot heat
AOA system
Cabin Fan
GNS-530
GTX-327
AUX POWER DISTRIBUTION:
Taxi light - right
Electric trim: aileron, rudder, elevator
Turn coordinator
Directional Gyro- possible a future BMA HSI
GNS-430
engine gauge- Electronics International- Oil/Temp
MAP
RPM
Ultimate Bar Graph
FP-5L, fuel flow/pressure
MAIN BATTERY BUS:
Amp/Volt gauge
Post lighting
Fuel boost pump (high)
* Ignition #1
Comm panel
Cabin lighting
Cargo Compartment light
AUX BATTERY BUS:
Clock
Hobbs Meter
* Ignition #2
Fuel boost Pump (low)
Power Receptacle for Hand Held NAV/COM
* Ignition system: I have always have seen MAGS, I'll be honest with
you, I don't know much about this other than what is in cars. Have read a lot
of past mail about this. My IO-520"D" engine is coming with a new set of MAGS
and harness. Should I plan on discarding this? Go with one side on EI or go
for both EI? If I stay with MAGS, is it to much trouble to go to EI later?
Here is my first pass at this!
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Predicting the Future |
If predicting the future were possible, we would all be rich....
BTW, I still have, and use now and then, a K&E slide rule, the Rolls Royce
Silver Phantom of slip sticks... A log, log, antilog screamer...
I might point out that the atomic bomb, the SR71, and lotsa good stuff was
designed and engineered on slip sticks..
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Predicting the Future
>
> Small note about predictions--in 1967 Keuffel & Esser, the sliderule
people,
> contracted for a sophisticated analysis of technology 1000 years in the
future.
> This study generated glowing predictions of domed cities and even 3D
television in
> 2067, but failed to predict that nobody would need sliderules just 5 years
later.
>
> Eric M. Jones
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
"AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
| Subject: | Re: Strobes - tail assembly |
The higher the current from the power supply, the shorter the useable
lifespan of the flash tube... In fact the light output of the strobe head
will degrade rapidly, logarithmically even, with increasing current... It
may be that with a 25% increase in lumens over nominal the actual lumens of
the flash tube after one year of use, will be less than what you would get
for many years of use at the recommended power level...
TANSTAAFL
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - tail assembly
>
> Bob wrote in a reply to a roll your own strobe question:
> "
> Did some websearching and had thousands of hits for
> suppliers/manufacturers of vehicular warning strobe
> systems. Here's just a small sample.
>
> etc."
>
> I have decided to do just this but have the problem of combining the tail
light and strobe tube. I don't want to use the Whelen unit since its power
output is less than the supply I plan to use and I object to the price. I
have been considering making an array of LEDs to surround the the tube but
I'm a little unsure as to a) how many at 5000mcd I will need and b) how to
power this.
>
> Advice will be appreciated.
>
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley.
> RV9A fuselage. N919RV resvd.
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: loadmeter/voltmeter |
>
>*** Speaking of voltmeters, I was at the auto parts store, and there was a
>cute little digital voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket.
>I had to have it. Now it lives in my Sundowner. I don't smoke :).
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
Radio Shack used to offer a bar-graph voltmeter that plugged into
the cigar lighter too. Never put my hands on one to see how it
was scaled or how accurate it was. Might do that next time I see
one. Have you checked the accuracy of your purchase against a
good multi-meter? It's getting easier by the year to do accurate
voltage measurement and display so accuracy issues should be
diminishing . . . but there are some early offerings out there
that were off by more than 0.5 volts at 14.0 volts.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes - tail assembly |
>
>
>The higher the current from the power supply, the shorter the useable
>lifespan of the flash tube... In fact the light output of the strobe head
>will degrade rapidly, logarithmically even, with increasing current... It
>may be that with a 25% increase in lumens over nominal the actual lumens of
>the flash tube after one year of use, will be less than what you would get
>for many years of use at the recommended power level...
This is true. The life of the strobe tube itself is a function of
heating . . . at 20 watt-seconds per flash and 1 flash per second
they have to dump 20 watts of heat. For an object this small, this
means they run REALLY warm.
I've had builders substitute surplus flash tubes into their
holy-watered strobe systems only to find that they were good
for only 10 hours of operation before their shells were
markedly darkened. One builder remarked about 10 years ago
that he didn't mind replacing them fairly often 'cause
he could get the tubes for about $3.00 each and he'd
worked out a means for convenient replacement. His
cost-of-ownership was sufficiently enhanced despite the
added time-to-maintain.
I think one is justified in substituting "high power"
strobe heads from the emergency vehicle market into
holy-watered strobe systems. Emergency vehicles generally
see a lot more operating hours per year than most
airplanes and I have to believe successful products
offered to that market are relatively robust.
Get a photographer's light meter that will read flashguns
and take a sample reading of your strobe assembly's
output when new. It's time to replace the head when the
light output falls by one half (1 f-stop).
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | Good, low budget multi-meters |
I am looking for a good quality mutli-meter, without paying Fluke prices.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Tom's Seawind - Rudimenary system planning |
>
>Hi Bob, Here is my revised list as per your suggestions:
Very good. Lets start working the loads issues. The
architecture details need not be carved in stone at this
time . . . I think you're 95% of the way there now.
You need to put some current draw (not wire or breaker
size) figures on each of these items.
I'll add a few where I'm sure I've got good numbers.
>Main Battery Bus:
Main battery contactor 1A
>Full boast pump
>Rt wing fuel transfer pump ( aux tank to main tank )
>Left wing fuel transfer pump ( aux tank to main tank )
>Transfer pump ( left wing to right wing )
>Transfer pump ( right wing to left wing )
>Bilge pump
>Primary fuel pump
>Hobbs meter 0.1A
>Over head curtesy lights
>
>Aux Battery Bus:
>Clock/timer 0.05A
>Stall warning 0.2A (intermittant)
>Goose neck light ) 0.1A
>
>Main Power Distribution Bus:
Main battery contactor 1A
>Taxi lights
>Strobe lights
>Landing lights
>Position lights 6A
>Panel lights
>Auto pilot
>Flaps 5A (intermittant - just guessing here)
>Hydraulic pressure pump (needs power) This guy will move to the
main battery through an ANL current limiter. What is
your "emergency" gear extension system like? How do
you get the gear down with no electrical power?
>Attitude indicator
>Pitot Heat 8A
>
>Aux Power Distribution Bus:
>HSI
>Roll trim Mac Servo? 0.2A (intermittant)
>Yaw trim Mac Servo? 0.2A (intermittant)
>Pitch trim Mac Servo? 0.2A (intermittant)
>Turn and slip indicator 0.3A
>GPS (Full IFR UPS stack)
>Nav Com (xx/xx receive/intermittant transmit)
>Transponder
>Audio panel 0.1A
>Quad fuel gauges
>Cooling fan for radios
>VM 1000
>
>There are six fuel pumps. 2 pumps to transfer fuel from aux tanks to main
>tanks.
>2 pumps to transfer fuel from left wing to right wing and vice-versa.
>1 pump to bring fuel up to the engine.
>1 high altitude pump.
>There is also the pump that is on the engine.
>
>Do you think that all the fuel pumps should be on the same bus? If not which
>pumps do I put on which bus?
What kind of pumps are these? Fawcet solid state pumps?
They don't draw much current. I think I'd like to be able
to keep this airplane aloft with the master switches both
OFF and still use up all fuel aboard. I'd put the pumps
on battery busses, each with it's own fuse. Say half
half of them on main battery, half on aux battery.
>I am also told that the altimeter, Rate of climb indicator, and air speed
>indicator need power to operate and that they have built in encoders.
What brand and part numbers are you anticipating
in these slots?
>What bus should the be hooked up to?
>
>Thanks for your patience,
>
>Tom Saccio
>
No problem. This is a good and necessary exercise that
should be the beginning of EVERY electrical system design.
At RAC, we try to have all these details worked out
before any parts are ordered or aluminum is cut.
It can save you a lot of time and avoid the frustration
and expense of back-tracking over unforeseen problems
later.
We have a couple of Lancair guys watching this thread
and I hope we'll be posting their deliberations here
soon as well. After we've gone through a few of these
exercises I think the technique will be obvious to
others who are wrestling with their own project
planning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Good, low budget multi-meters |
MCM Electronics WWW.mcmelectronics.com has Fluke 110 on sale at $99.00 or for the
budget minded they have a TENMA DMM for 29.95 (order #72-2055). I have had
excellent service from these folks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins(at)globaleyes.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good, low budget multi-meters
I am looking for a good quality mutli-meter, without paying Fluke prices.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Good, low budget multi-meters |
Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
>
> I am looking for a good quality mutli-meter, without paying Fluke prices.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
*** How about Sears Craftsman? I think Sears is reasonably careful about
what they slap Craftsman stickers onto.
In general, I've given up on cheap multimeters. They always break for
me, YMMV. Well, there is one exception. I have a little credit-card-sized
SOAR that has never let me down. Still ticking after ten years.
Do an Ebay search for "Fluke Multimeter" - there are LOTS of them. A
used Fluke might be your best meter.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Bob,
I'm finishing the details of my electrical system design for my Lancair
Legacy, working on the power grid/contactors right now. To refresh you,
it is a dual alt/bat sys, similar to your depiction in z14. dual 17ah
bats will be behind the seat with the bat and crossfeed contactors there
on a power grid, and there will be a starter (and avionics) power grid
on the firewall, and there will be a final contactor bank in the aft
fuselage where the hyd pump and air conditioning is. I have a couple of
questions though:
1) why is the wire from the starter contactor to the starter shown as
2awg, while the wire feeding it from the batteries is only 4awg.
Shouldn't the wire from the bat to starter contactor also be 2awg,
especially in a situation like this where there is 7-10 feet between the
contactors?
2) is there any reason I can't move the shunt to the other side of the
contactor to measure amp draw on the bat? Likewise, I will pull the
crossfeed and starter feed off before the shunt so there is no drop on
it and to eliminate any problems there. If this doesn't make sense, I
can include a drawing. Heres basically what I have in mind:
B+ 0--O contactor 0--0--0 bat_shunt 0--0--0 alt_shunt 0--0 anl30 0--0
alt
| |
| |
xfeed main
cont & bus
starter
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good, low budget multi-meters |
>
>Sam Hoskins wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I am looking for a good quality mutli-meter, without paying Fluke prices.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
We've been offering this instrument or close cousins
to it for several years with good history . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#dmm-2
I've had occasion to use one of these from Radio Shack
and I think it's a good value . . . you can also probably
find one locally.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F008%5F002%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=22%2D811
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good, low budget multi-meters |
Sears has good digital meters reasonable...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Good, low budget multi-meters
>
> >
> >Sam Hoskins wrote:
October 04, 2002 - October 17, 2002
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bf