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AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bn
January 07, 2003 - January 17, 2003

> dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't > think of any way that antenna could function properly. > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I wrong? > > -John R. > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > have to run such tests? > > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > > > >> > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the > >>electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't readily > >>see the answer to my questions. > >> > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to do a > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the Aeroelectric > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated from the > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would expect. > >> > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin and > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have complete > >>continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything. > >> > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner pin > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried inside the > >>housing and I can't check that out. > >> > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin and > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no continuity > >>between the inner pin and the whip. > >> > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna? > > > > > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an ohmmeter. > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for > > testing an antenna. > > > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc). > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is installed, > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
In a message dated 01/07/2003 2:02:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrourke@allied-computer.com writes: > if it shows a > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't > think of any way that antenna could function properly. > I can: balun transformer between feedline and cat-whiskers. The standard arrangement, I believe. Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
><jrourke@allied-computer.com> > >I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is >entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a >dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't >think of any way that antenna could function properly. There are LOTS of antenna designs that measure zero ohms (or close to it) at the connector that work just fine as an antenna. The ohmmeter is NOT the tool for antenna testing. . . . >If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test >until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can >handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I wrong? > >-John R. > >P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to >have to run such tests? An SWR meter is good . . . like http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4671&item=1949914808 . . . . or an antenna analyzer like http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and rent/loan it to members. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics Masters
> > >Does anyone remember vacuum tube radios in automobiles. The vacuum >tubes required high voltage (over 90V) and to get this voltage the 6V >DC had to be converted to AC an run through a transformer. The DC to AC >converted was called vibrator and worked like an electric door bell. >When you turned on the radio the first thing you heard was the hum of >the vibrator. The vibrator was quite prone to failure due to contacts >sticking. As I understood it, it was to prevent the contact sticking >that the starter button was removed and replaced by the key >switch/starter which prevented the radio from being on while the car >was started. > >Old habits die hard. My first mobile rig was vibrator power supply powered. Had it installed in a 6-volt, 1941 Pontiac. Here's some more info on this bit of ancient but elegant technology at http://www.geocities.com/vintage_radio/vpwrsup.htm Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
From: "MATTHEW PRATHER" <mprather(at)spro.net>
At the risk of being argumentative, and to somewhat amplify on what Bob said, I believe that an impedance matching balun may be very close to a dc short across its inputs. Check out http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm. The reason that doesn't damage a transmitter is that the AC impedance of the inductor will always be greater than the measured DC resistance. What short circuit protection scheme is designed into the output stage of the transmitter shouldn't matter when driving into an inductive load (like a matching transformer). I would imagine that your ADF antenna might look like a DC short because of just such an impedance matcher. This is so because an efficiently sized dipole for lower (ADF) frequencies might be quite large. Not relevant example for transmitter damage, but if you are playing with an ohmeter and your airplane antennas, don't be surprised... Regards, Matt Prather N34RD > <jrourke@allied-computer.com> > > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't > think of any way that antenna could function properly. > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I > wrong? > > -John R. > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > have to run such tests? > > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the >>> electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't >>> readily see the answer to my questions. >>> >>>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to >>> do a continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the >>> Aeroelectric transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is >>> insulated from the outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, >>> all as I would expect. >>> >>>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin >>> and outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have >>> complete continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from >>> everything. >>> >>>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner >>> pin and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried >>> inside the housing and I can't check that out. >>> >>>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin >>> and outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no >>> continuity between the inner pin and the whip. >>> >>>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna? >> >> >> As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an >> ohmmeter. Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of >> various inductors and capacitors that will make continuity >> measurements confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting >> the antenna with a source at the frequency of interest and >> measuring resistive and reactive components (SWR) is the only >> effective means for testing an antenna. >> >> As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot >> recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer some >> catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc). >> So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything >> together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is >> installed, it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio >> but it's easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment >> that will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop. >> >> Bob . . . >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Radio waves are AC and you are measuring DC resistance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lundquist" <lundquist(at)ieee.org> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics > > It is entirely possible that a perfectly good antenna can be either open or > a dead short when checked with an ohm meter. The ohm meter is only useful > if you know what the antenna is supposed to be. > > Dave Lundquist > lundquist(at)ieee.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics > > > <jrourke@allied-computer.com> > > > > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is > > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows a > > dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I can't > > think of any way that antenna could function properly. > > > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission test > > until the short is found - although I guess today's transceivers can > > handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Am I > wrong? > > > > -John R. > > > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > > have to run such tests? > > > > > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand the > > >>electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but don't > readily > > >>see the answer to my questions. > > >> > > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and decided to > do a > > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the > Aeroelectric > > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated from > the > > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I would > expect. > > >> > > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner pin > and > > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have complete > > >>continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from everything. > > >> > > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the inner > pin > > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried inside > the > > >>housing and I can't check that out. > > >> > > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner pin and > > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no > continuity > > >>between the inner pin and the whip. > > >> > > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective antenna? > > > > > > > > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an > ohmmeter. > > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various > > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements > > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna > > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive > > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for > > > testing an antenna. > > > > > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot > > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer > > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc). > > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything > > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is > installed, > > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's > > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that > > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop. > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Avionics Masters
Date: Jan 07, 2003
What a great site for old radios. Brought back many old memories of my expensive 1948 Buick with the dual point vibrator. Never could get the hash out! Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Masters > > > > > > >Does anyone remember vacuum tube radios in automobiles. The vacuum > >tubes required high voltage (over 90V) and to get this voltage the 6V > >DC had to be converted to AC an run through a transformer. The DC to AC > >converted was called vibrator and worked like an electric door bell. > >When you turned on the radio the first thing you heard was the hum of > >the vibrator. The vibrator was quite prone to failure due to contacts > >sticking. As I understood it, it was to prevent the contact sticking > >that the starter button was removed and replaced by the key > >switch/starter which prevented the radio from being on while the car > >was started. > > > >Old habits die hard. > > My first mobile rig was vibrator power supply powered. Had > it installed in a 6-volt, 1941 Pontiac. Here's some more > info on this bit of ancient but elegant technology at > http://www.geocities.com/vintage_radio/vpwrsup.htm > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rod Kimmell" <rod.kimmell(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Antenna Electronics
Date: Jan 07, 2003
What looks like a dead short or open to DC current flow on an antenna will look entirely differerent to RF energy whether received or transmitted. Impedance is the AC equivalent of DC resistance and is a combination of resistance, reactance, and frequency. Depending on the antenna design, the DC measurement could be anythings for 0 to infinity. Most VHF/UHF radios, including aircraft, typically expect to see a 50 ohm impedance at the operating frequency. Some antennas have capacitance coupling which would look like an open. Ever wonder how those glass mounted cellular antennas work? Capacitive coupling through the glass. For those interested, any Amateur Radio Relay League Handbook will have more information. Rod -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics Radio waves are AC and you are measuring DC resistance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lundquist" <lundquist(at)ieee.org> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics > > It is entirely possible that a perfectly good antenna can be either > open or > a dead short when checked with an ohm meter. The ohm meter is only > useful if you know what the antenna is supposed to be. > > Dave Lundquist > lundquist(at)ieee.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Electronics > > > <jrourke@allied-computer.com> > > > > I would agree that an "open circuit" as shown with an ohmmeter is > > entirely possible in a properly functioning antenna, but if it shows > > a dead short of 0 ohms from the shielding to the center conductor, I > > can't think of any way that antenna could function properly. > > > > If that is the case, I wouldn't want to initiate any transmission > > test until the short is found - although I guess today's > > transceivers can handle that, it still just doesn't sound like a > > good idea to me. Am I > wrong? > > > > -John R. > > > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we > > to have to run such tests? > > > > > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >>Maybe I have some new, defective antennas or I don't understand > > >>the electronics. I've read Bob's chapter on antenna theory, but > > >>don't > readily > > >>see the answer to my questions. > > >> > > >>I'm installing the various nav & com antennas on my RV6 and > > >>decided to > do a > > >>continuity check on them before connecting the cables. On the > Aeroelectric > > >>transponder antenna, at the connector, the inner pin is insulated > > >>from > the > > >>outer, and the inner has continuity with the shaft, all as I > > >>would > expect. > > >> > > >>On my Comant VOR/LOC/GS cat wiskers, the ohm meter says the inner > > >>pin > and > > >>outer connector are hooked together somewhere inside and have > > >>complete continuity, but the two "whiskers" are insulated from > > >>everything. > > >> > > >>The Comant marker beacon antenna also has continuity between the > > >>inner > pin > > >>and the outer connector shell, but the actual antenna is buried > > >>inside > the > > >>housing and I can't check that out. > > >> > > >>The bent whip Com antenna is different from the rest. The inner > > >>pin and > > >>outer shell are insulated from each other, but there is also no > continuity > > >>between the inner pin and the whip. > > >> > > >>So, are the electronics correct, or do I have some defective > > >>antenna? > > > > > > > > > As a general rule, antennas cannot always be "tested" with an > ohmmeter. > > > Some antennas may have matching networks consisting of various > > > inductors and capacitors that will make continuity measurements > > > confusing or meaningless. Active testing by exciting the antenna > > > with a source at the frequency of interest and measuring resistive > > > and reactive components (SWR) is the only effective means for > > > testing an antenna. > > > > > > As a general rule also, antennas are quite rugged. I cannot > > > recall ever having to replace an antenna that did not suffer > > > some catastrophic damage (collision, lighting stroke, etc). > > > So if your coax feedlines check out, go ahead and stick everything > > > together. If you find performance lacking after every thing is > installed, > > > it is MORE likely that you have a problem with a radio but it's > > > easy to test the antenna as installed with test equipment that > > > will be in the possession of every decent avionics shop. > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Master Switch
> > > > > > Yup . . . I've seen it, and others like it for > > years. I can't remember if I wrote to this particular > > author or not. I used to attempt contact with everyone who > > published articles touting the virtues of an avionics > > master with respect to protecting radios from airplane > > gremlins. My question has always been, "Please identify > > for me the source, duration and magnitude of any > > transient that might endanger the health and well-being > > of any piece of electronics. > > >. > > > > Bob . . . > > >Just started installing my "things" and I have a used Insight engine monitor >GEM 602 in the installation instructions (Version 3.0 May 1996) Page 6 > > >.....If the aircraft installation does not include an Avionics Master switch >circuit or bus, we recommend that one be installed or a separate switch >provided to remove power from the Display during engine starts. > >Should I really follow the separate switch way (tube display) or just ignore >(Bob, do you want the notes in pdf form for asking them =(;o)) What does Insight say are the consequences of not waiting until after the engine is started to turn on their system? I suspect they've not done their homework on a microcontroller and the thing wanders off into the weeds during brownout. If this is the case, and you want to use the product, put the system on it's own power switch and write a procedure into your manual for keeping it OFF until after the engine is started. Had a builder some years ago find that the display processor on one of his instruments locked up during brownout. He just added a normally closed pushbutton next to the instrument that was in series with the +14V power. After startup, he would hold the button in for a second to interrupt the power and cause the processor to do a normal re-set. Some people put such products on the market thinking they can hide their shortcomings behind somebody else's avionics master switch. The normally closed push-button might be an option for you too . . . you can label Push for WAKE UP Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Good price on battery tester
Check out the specials/consignment section of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Good price on battery tester
In a message dated 1/7/03 3:14:04 PM Central Standard Time, bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > Check out the specials/consignment section of > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html > > Bob . . . > Good Afternoon Bob, The battery tester sounds interesting. Is there anything similar available for twenty-four volt batteries? Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Bob, My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked fine, but now it's acting up again. Any suggestions? John Slade Cozy IV #757 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Dead Dimmer?
> >Bob, >My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have >died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few >weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer >output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked fine, >but now it's acting up again. >Any suggestions? >John Slade >Cozy IV #757 If the dimmer is getting hot but the light doesn't light up, then there is most likely a short circuit that is causing the dimmer to go into thermal shutdown. The short would have to be in wiring between the dimmer and the lamp fixture or in the fixture itself. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Good price on battery tester
> >In a message dated 1/7/03 3:14:04 PM Central Standard Time, >bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > > > Check out the specials/consignment section of > > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html > > > > Bob . . . > > > >Good Afternoon Bob, > >The battery tester sounds interesting. Is there anything similar available >for twenty-four volt batteries? > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob Somebody probably makes one for commercial aviation and military applications but you can bet it wouldn't be a $240 device. I'm not aware of any specific products I can guide you toward . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics Masters
> >< we thought we had a good reason . . . . over the years > the reasoning, experience and technology upon which > the decision was made are long since gone the way of > the buggy whip. > > Bob . . . >> > >Just as a point of reference, my Cardinal apparently was equipped with an >"avionics master relay" which was a normally closed relay between the main >buss and the avionics buss. The coil was connected to the starter terminal >on the ignition switch so that when the starter was engaged the avionics >were turned off. It either only showed up in the service manual, never >being installed, or had been removed at some point in its life. Another >single point of failure. > >As far as I can tell there are very minor voltage transients that occur >during cranking. The first is when the starter is engaged and the battery >voltage takes a virtually instantaneous drop to some lower voltage. During >cranking the battery voltage will smoothly rise and fall with each >compression stroke, accompanied by a ripple voltage from starter commutator >segments. When the starter is released the voltage will step back to a >no-load condition, not overshooting. The inductive surge from the starter >exists on the STARTER side of the contactor and doesn't exist at the main >buss. Car systems shut off some of the electronics during cranking because >they only need to shut off the heater blower and the electronics were just >hooked to the same switch terminal because it was there. > >It would be tempting, I suppose, to hook the starter contactor directly to >the battery and leave the master off during cranking. But then there would >be no way to disconnect the starter if the contactor welded. > >Gary Casey I've had data acquisition systems tied to perhaps 30 different airplanes over the years to look for voltage aberrations. Early explorations were with relatively slow chart recorders. Later measurements used 8000 sample/second data acquisition adapters on a computer. I've never been able to catch a killer starting transient in the wild . . . During contactor bounce, there are some short fuzzy spikes of very low energy content when measured at the bus. If there are any capacitors on the input circuits to powered devices, these little fellers disappear completely. the next most noted artifact is battery voltage at starter inrush current levels that typically pulls the battery down to 6 volts or so for about 2 milliseconds. It rises quickly as the motor begins to turn an passes 8 volts in about 10 milliseconds. After the engine starts and the starter is released, there are no significant transients when the contactor opens. Some folks call the inrush artifact a "spike" and indeed on the oscilloscope, it's pretty pointy . . . but it's relatively long compared to the kinds of real spikes that used to trip our ov modules by a factor of 50 or more. Further, the negative going excursion stays inside the range of voltages any device should expect to see in normal operations . . . zero to 15 volts. I prefer to call it a perfectly acceptable and expected effect of hitting the battery with a 1000A inrush transient and as such should not be a threat to ANY other part of the airplane. DO-160 says so too . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Subject: Re: Dead Dimmer?
Bob . . . John Slade mentioned that he can run LED's with the dimmer on your gooseneck lamp. Does the lamp have a LED or LED's? Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer? Thanks, John Schroeder >>My dimmer unit (DIM15-14 - came with the gooseneck light) seems to have >>died. It gets hot, but doesnt light the lights. I had this problem a few >>weeks ago, but it came back on. Last week I connected one of the dimmer >>output's to the LEDs which light up my fuel sight guages. It worked fine, >>but now it's acting up again. > If the dimmer is getting hot but the light doesn't light > ... .> > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2003
Subject: CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER
From: Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com>
Hi all, Funny thing, if Cessna put an avionics master in 100,000 airplanes they must have missed my 1971 Cardinal RG ... or maybe this model was supposed to be ahead of it's time? Starting to wire my Murphy Moose soon and I think I will follow Cessna's lead and leave out the avionics master! Bob, I may be bugging you in the near future with some questions as I proceed with my dual alt and single bat system. Thanks for all the generosity you apply to this list, Regards, Don Boardman & Partner, Randy Bowers Murphy Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 07, 2003
> Does the lamp have a LED or LED's? No. Its a very low wattage bulb. > Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer? Bob may give you a more complete answer but yes, you can run any number of LED's off the dimmer. It has five outputs. I use one for the fuel gauges, one for the transponder / radio lights, one for the panel lights and one for the goose neck light. I still have a spare output. My only complaint, other than the fact that it aint working right now, is that it doesnt dim down far enough. Off to check my wiring. John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
Date: Jan 08, 2003
"> -John R.> > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > have to run such tests?" "> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B > is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . . Cheers, John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer is just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts - including aviation types we are discussing. The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well end up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our radio club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in the wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost you about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having kicked in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the investment. I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with 'old' hands. The result of this advice is to suggest you make contact with the local radio club - they are far more populous than EAA chapters - and are similar in function - guys/gals who enjoy a common goal. Their whereabouts are easily gleaned from the American Radio Relay League (in U.S.) In that frame of mind, I would suggest the chapter/individual contact the local club and buy the pres. a coffee over which to arrange a visit from one of his members who owns such a device. Hams like builders are a curious lot and am sure there's one who would volunteer his services, as they do to each other. ....sounds like a lot of fuss, but you could end up with an 'in-house' antenna specialist/lecturer and do the chapter a longterm favour - without putting the airfield radio shop's nose out of joint. Anyway, that's my experience, and $.02, Ferg Europa A064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > Does the lamp have a LED or LED's? >No. Its a very low wattage bulb. > > > Can you run more than one light off of the dimmer? >Bob may give you a more complete answer but yes, you can run any number of >LED's off the dimmer. It has five outputs. I use one for the fuel gauges, >one for the transponder / radio lights, one for the panel lights and one for >the goose neck light. I still have a spare output. My only complaint, other >than the fact that it aint working right now, is that it doesnt dim down far >enough. > >Off to check my wiring. >John Slade The dimmer was set up for incandescent lights. Minimum voltage was set for barely usable light output from a filament-type bulb at about 4 volts. LED dimming curves will be much different. If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some new resistors for the setting limits. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: CESSNA Cardinal NO AVIONICS MASTER
> >Hi all, > >Funny thing, if Cessna put an avionics master in 100,000 airplanes they must >have missed my 1971 Cardinal RG ... or maybe this model was supposed to be >ahead of it's time? > >Starting to wire my Murphy Moose soon and I think I will follow Cessna's >lead and leave out the avionics master! I believe it was always an option. I used to find it amusing that Cessna would publish these long lists of "standard" items in their products that included things like, battery, tires, seat belts, etc. By the same token, Cessna wasn't real keen on putting anything on the airplane for free that they could get more money for. I belive the avionics master was an option on most if not all the models. >Bob, I may be bugging you in the near future with some questions as I >proceed with my dual alt and single bat system. Put them up here on the list so we can share with everyone. >Thanks for all the generosity you apply to this list, My pleasure sir. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
> >"> -John R.> > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > >have to run such tests?" >"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like > > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B > > is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and > > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . . > >Cheers, > John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer is >just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts - >including aviation types we are discussing. > The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well end >up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the >manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our radio >club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in the >wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost you >about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having kicked >in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is >the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the investment. >I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with >'old' hands. As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from the external supply. Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition. I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external power supply on my analyzer . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net>
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger
Hi Bob Thanks for the reply regarding the battery charger. I am not interested in using it on my batteries for my airplane. I just will swap one out each year. ( Dual bat/ dual alt system) I do have regular wet cell batteries for my generator and other things that seem to die over a time. These are what I was wanting to prolong the life if possible. It doesn't sound like the process is very successful from your tests. The ads sure sound good, however. A thought came to mind as I was writing this. Maybe I will use the retired aircraft battery each year as a replacement for the generator start battery. Jim > > > > > > > >Bob > >There was a thread awhile back on battery chargers that helped > >desulfonate a battery to prolong it's life. I wonder what was found > >out regarding the units. Do they work as stated? Are they worth > >buying? any suggestions as to brands/ sources? Jim Robinson Glasair > >79R > > I have a sample product that's supposed to recover > lost capacity in a battery due to sulfation . . . the > limited testing I've been able to conduct haven't been > conclusive in support of the claims. I wasn't able > to recover a battery that was pulled from service > after it failed to start a car . . . I did see some > increase in battery capacity for a few cycles of testing. > I let the battery sit on the shelf for a month with the > de-sulfater installed . . . took it down and attempted > to charge and retest . . . battery wouldn't accept any > significant charge and it's capacity had dropped to > a few percent of new. > > If it were my airplane, I'd still have to opt for > the new-battery-every-year technique for making sure > I was carrying the expected reserve capacity. > > Dave S. You guys were looking at some de-sulfator > type products, any new info on that program? > > Bob . . . > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > List members. > == > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net>
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
Bob Is there a link to this unit or is it on your web site? I know there was discussion in the past, but I can't seem to find the post. Jim > > > > > > > >"> -John R.> > > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought > > > we to > > >have to run such tests?" > >"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like > > > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B is > > > handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and > > > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . . > > > >Cheers, > > John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna > > Analyzer is > >just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts - > >including aviation types we are discussing. > > The device was produced for hams who these days > > pretty-well end > >up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in > >the manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for > >our radio club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if > >you plug in the wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, > >the surge will cost you about $100 to repair. So it is not for > >average or casual use. Having kicked in for the unit, my advice is to > >let the owner use it - period. He/she is the sole caretaker and will > >doubtless take excellent care of the investment. I found a "club" > >ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with 'old' hands. > > As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass > the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply > is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from the > external supply. > > Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter > capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output > voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again > higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful > to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition. > > I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external > power supply on my analyzer . . . > > Bob . . . > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > List members. > == > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Paul Wilson <pwilson(at)climber.org>
Subject: Rotax 912UL alternator output
Help me with my thought process before I commit to a second alternator. From Rotax manual: At a constant 13.5V from a "battery charging" graph (fluctuations +/-5%) @4000 rpm ~18 amps @5000 rpm ~21 amps @5800 rpm ~22 amps Then with more detail from a "DC output" chart @2000 rpm, 8.9 v/12.4 amp max @4000 rpm, 13.5 v/7.7 amp @4000 rpm, 12.8 v/17.8 amp max @5800 rpm, 13.7 v/7.8 amps @5800 rpm, 12.6 v/20.5 amps max Rotax recommends cruise at 5000 to 5500 rpms. Interpolating: @5000 rpm 12.69 v/19.3 amps @5500 rpm 12.63 v/20.05 amps The questions are: - What output level should I use for the load analysis? Any reason why I could not use 19 to 20 amps as my max output for continuous operation? - Why is the "battery charging" graph different than the "DC output" chart? Thanks for your help, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 10209 Danielson
> Bob, > >Preface: I have had your book for almost 3 years now and havelearned/am >learning a lot from it. > >I am building a Zenithair CH 801 and it is time for me to wire up the tail >light. The socket that Zenith sells has two big tabs coming out of the >back, and each is threaded to accept a small screw, so I am guessing the >intended method of connection is to crimp a ring terminal to the end of my >16 guage wire and screw it to the tab. I am not too excited by this >prospect and wondered what your recommendation is? Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals. >On the other end of the 2 wires that leave the rudder and enter the >fuselage, my intention is to use faston receptacles purchased from the >site, and put a piece of shrinkwrap around them. If you sell the fully >insulated fastons then I'll use those, otherwise I'll use regular and >shrinkwrap each one, before I shrinkwrap the pair together. Does that >sound acceptable? Use knife splices for service joints. Put shrink tube over the mated splices. . . See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816 >PS I am subscribed to the Zenith list on matronics, but not the >aeroelectric list. If you desire, I will subscribe and ask my question there. I would recommend you join the AeroElectric-List. It's always better to share these conversations with others. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 08, 2003
> If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like > the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some > new resistors for the setting limits. Cool. My LED's have 470 ohm resistors in series per you're LED tutorial. Right now the LED's go from "bright" to "medium". Ideally I'd like them to go all the way to "off" = i.e. zero or close to it, but "dim" would be fine. I don't have an easy way to specify a voltage, but I'd guess that if 4 volts gets me half way, 1 or 2 volts would be good. John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: unusual toggle switch
In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use, down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case. I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: unusual toggle switch
> >In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe >lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was >off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use, >down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and >strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case. > >I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't >seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one? That's called a progressive transfer switch. Our S700-2-10 is such a device. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#switch http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switches.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-Pulse charger
> > >Hi Bob >Thanks for the reply regarding the battery charger. I am not >interested in using it on my batteries for my airplane. I just will >swap one out each year. ( Dual bat/ dual alt system) I do have >regular wet cell batteries for my generator and other things that >seem to die over a time. These are what I was wanting to prolong >the life if possible. It doesn't sound like the process is very >successful from your tests. The ads sure sound good, however. A >thought came to mind as I was writing this. Maybe I will use the >retired aircraft battery each year as a replacement for the generator >start battery. > >Jim The limited testing I've been able to do was most informal. If I were wanting to plug something into a wall to maintain a battery, I'd build a wall-wart power supply to put out about 13.0 volts. . . . too low to charge the battery but high enough to prevent self discharge. If one were to add some form of pulsed-desulfation device in parallel with this combination, it probably wouldn't hurt and may well be useful. There is a lot of literature that supports the notion . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
Bob Is there a link to this unit or is it on your web site? I know there was discussion in the past, but I can't seem to find the post. Jim http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B This is a link to the folks that make/sell them. I believe you can download a copy of the instruction manual for this piece of equipment to see the ways it can be used. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: mounting specs for the Klixon breakers
Though I'm using fuses for most of the systems I'm doing I am ending up with a couple of breakers. Among other reasons - I already have them :) Does anyone have the mounting specs for them - hole size, and placement and size for the anti-rotation tab? Are they the same as the s700 series toggles? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: 10209 Danielson
Date: Jan 08, 2003
> Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is > fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with > PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but > they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals. Bob, I have your manual. As we all know, it does not have a cross reference to make it a very easy-to-use reference source. This recent post forces some of us to need to check what a PIDG terminal is even though we have run across it before in our lives. I probably would not be wrong to say it is in your manual somewhere. But finding it would be easier if there was a cross reference list. If I had your manual in electronic form, I could word search for any topic. OK, without giving away your manual for free and depriving you of future authorship income, what about having a cross reference list of your manual on the aerolectric web site for everyone to use at so we could find stuff more easily in your manual. If anything, showing entries for various topics will wet the appetite of those not having your nice manual, I think. And those who own it -- it will be even more valuable. Indiana Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Master Switch
Date: Jan 08, 2003
> > What does Insight say are the consequences of not > waiting until after the engine is started to turn on In the troubleshooting section they tell about when the gas plasma screen goes out during engine start. They refer to valtage transient or over voltage condition. > their system? I suspect they've not done their homework > on a microcontroller and the thing wanders off into the > weeds during brownout. If this is the case, and you > want to use the product, put the system on it's own > power switch and write a procedure into your manual for > keeping it OFF until after the engine is started. So I start without a switch and if I have the effects just install a switch. > avionics master switch. The normally closed push-button > might be an option for you too . . . you can label > Push for WAKE UP =(;o)) I have two other question, they say: ......engine harnesses (probes) should be positioned away from sources of high energy, such as ignition harnesses,..... The wires of the probes itself are surounded with a metall shielding. Do I have a problem, if I bundle this wires partly together with the ignition harness (same clamp to the rocker box screws)?? The probes I have came with a set out of a crimp pin and and a socket. Insight seams to have standard wires without any shield and is using ring terminals with screw to make a connection point on the way from the instrument to the connector. My question is now, should I really cut the wires (breaking the shielding) with one of the methodes above. Or do I have a better setup, if I leave them intact from the probe to the instrument 30 pin connector? If you want, I can send you the installation instruction as PDF. Many thanks for helping us so much with your deep knowledge! Kind regards Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Subject: Re: unusual toggle switch
In a message dated 1/8/03 8:39:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, richard(at)riley.net writes: << In my last airplane I had a single switch for both the nav and strobe lights that was an oddball - double pole double throw, but the pattern was off-circuit 1 on-circuit 1&2 on. It saved a little panel space. In use, down was off, middle was position lights, up was position lights and strobes. Bat handle, .5" mounting hole, metal case. I got if from the Electric Switch Company on Fischer in LA, but they don't seem to exist anymore. Anyone know where I might find another one? >> You want a 2-10 switch from B&C Specialty Products, 316-283-800. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, starting firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"aeroelectric-list"
Subject: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb
Date: Jan 08, 2003
On my RV-6 I'm splicing in extra lengths of wire (14 or 16 awg - definitely bigger than 20 or 22) on my Whelen tail/strobe lights so have enough wire for service loop, etc. for maintenance/light fixture removal, etc. First tried to solder with a regular soldering gun but got cold solder joints due to wires wiggling with gun tip physically pressing on the wires. So, am going to buy a soldering torch - so don't have to physically touch the wires except with the thin solder strand. Had previously figured the torch was only for real pros like Bob Nuckolls - now I can see that an amateur like me needs one, too. Went to Radio Shack and found they are on sale for $5 off the normal $19.99 price thru 2 Feb or some such date. Anyone needs one, enjoy the price. David Carter RV-6 - about to close the aft fuselage with top aft skins ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Electronics
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Most interesting.... I have the 259B and it has nicads inside and an external charger/power supply... No problems... I plug the external supply in and out with it on frequently... Denny - K8DO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna Electronics > > > > >"> -John R.> > > > P.S.: Other than an RF power/SWR meter, what test equipment ought we to > > >have to run such tests?" > >"> . . . . or an antenna analyzer like > > > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B > > > is handy. Perhaps your EAA chapter could purchase one and > > > rent/loan it to members.> Bob . . > > > >Cheers, > > John, Bob has it quite right. The MFJ259B Antenna Analyzer is > >just the ticket for measuring and adjusting antennas of most sorts - > >including aviation types we are discussing. > > The device was produced for hams who these days pretty-well end > >up building antennas since everything is surface-mount (or worse) in the > >manufactured-unit snese. However, useful as it is (I have one for our radio > >club use), it is MOST sensitive to improper use. In fact if you plug in the > >wallwart power supply with the Analyzer turned on, the surge will cost you > >about $100 to repair. So it is not for average or casual use. Having kicked > >in for the unit, my advice is to let the owner use it - period. He/she is > >the sole caretaker and will doubtless take excellent care of the investment. > >I found a "club" ownership is a ticket to early destruction - even with > >'old' hands. > > As I recall, there is a jumper inside that allows you to bypass > the automatic disconnect of batteries when external power supply > is plugged in . . . this lets you charge internal ni-cads from > the external supply. > > Simple wallwarts are transformer-rectifiers with a filter > capacitor. When not loaded, they soar to the peak output > voltage value of the rectifier . . . typically half again > higher than loaded value. This can be overly stressful > to circuits not designed to accommodate the condition. > > I buy AA cells dirt cheap and never use the external > power supply on my analyzer . . . > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb
David Carter wrote: > > > On my RV-6 I'm splicing in extra lengths of wire (14 or 16 awg - definitely bigger than 20 or 22) on my Whelen tail/strobe lights so have enough wire for service loop, etc. for maintenance/light fixture removal, etc. First tried to solder with a regular soldering gun but got cold solder joints due to wires wiggling with gun tip physically pressing on the wires. > > So, am going to buy a soldering torch - so don't have to physically touch the wires except with the thin solder strand. Had previously figured the torch was only for real pros like Bob Nuckolls - now I can see that an amateur like me needs one, too. > > Went to Radio Shack and found they are on sale for $5 off the normal $19.99 price thru 2 Feb or some such date. Anyone needs one, enjoy the price. > > David Carter > RV-6 - about to close the aft fuselage with top aft skins Crimped butt joints work great in situations like this. Only takes a few seconds to install (even in cramped quarters), is self-insulating, and less likely to fail than a soldered joint. Be sure you use the proper, high-quality racheting crimper (about $45.00 and works great with all "Fast-On" terminals). Sam Buchanan (RV-6) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trim on e-buss?
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Robert Watson mentioned the problem of run away trim in this thread yesterday. So the trim is now at the stop and I can't get it back. I'm using constant manual pressure to fly the aircraft. What is advantage to pulling the power from the trim? When the servo hits the stop it shuts down so there isn't any current draw to worry about. Can any one comment on the failure modes of an electric trim system. I have a Ray Allen installed for both elevetor and aileron. Thanks. Neil Hulin Construction Zodiac 601XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Trim on e-buss?
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Good point. In theory, if you catch the runaway trim in time and pull the breaker, then you can avoid a full up- or down-trim situation. In actuality, would I personally catch it in time? Can't say until I fly this sucker and see how quickly the trim moves and how much force it applies. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "nhulin" <nhulin(at)hotmail.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss? > > Robert Watson mentioned the problem of run away trim in this thread > yesterday. > > So the trim is now at the stop and I can't get it back. I'm using constant > manual pressure to fly the aircraft. What is advantage to pulling the power > from the trim? When the servo hits the stop it shuts down so there isn't any > current draw to worry about. > > Can any one comment on the failure modes of an electric trim system. I have > a Ray Allen installed for both elevetor and aileron. > > Thanks. > > Neil Hulin > > Construction > Zodiac 601XL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
Subject: Alternator Connection
From: Bbbb Green <rvinfo(at)juno.com>
I have a Prestolite alternator with two terminals for the field connection. My question is: Does it matter which wires to which on these field wires or are they interchangeable? One goes to the regulator and one goes to the battery, I am just not sure which is which. Bruce Green Eagle N110GM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2003
From: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Mounting stuff
Ya know, wiring is easy, it is figuring out where to mount everything that is starting to worry me. I have a MB receiver, GS receiver, dimmer, and other stuff (ground bus). It is a Cozy, so I have some room, but is there like a shelf system or something to organize it? Right now I have the MB receiver mounted on the one side of the radio rack, and the GS receiver mounted on the other side. I built a box for the dimmer, and am thinking of mounting it next to the MB receiver. The Ground bus is on the wall above the passengers legs. The sensor wiring (canopy, LG, throttle, etc) terminal strip is on the pilot side wall. Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights. Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the wires to a terminal strip? Any ideas are welcome. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: New Survey: what's on your bus?
Date: Jan 08, 2003
If you have a moment, I kindly ask that you take this quick survey (just a few clicks required) which asks what you have (or will have) on your various electrical busses: http://www.rvproject.com/buspoll/ Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Subject: Re: New Survey: what's on your bus?
Dan - What a super, wonderful idea!!! Great job! I did not fill out the questionaire because I was not able to provide much useable information. We are doing Bob's Z-14 power distribution plan (dual battery and dual alternator). However, it would be a great tool to gather data from folks and build a superb database for future, and present, builders to view. My guess is that you already have the basic framework but with some modifications you could build the data on Bob's series of Z diagrams and people could view the data from several builders who are using a particular diagram. Bob already has had a number of folks submit their data on various Z's and an on-line database would really be an asset. Email me off line if you want to discuss further. If you don't have the time, perhaps someone else on this list would consider taking it on. Cheers, John Schroeder >If you have a moment, I kindly ask that you take this quick survey (just a >few clicks required) which asks what you have (or will have) on your various >electrical busses: > >http://www.rvproject.com/buspoll/ > >Thanks in advance, >)_( Dan > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Mounting stuff
Date: Jan 09, 2003
> it is figuring out where to > mount everything that is starting to worry me. I have the same problem, Tom. Even though the Cozy is fairly big I'm running out of room for stuff. Maybe I have too much stuff :) I can't imaging how the LongEz types squeeze everything in. My MB is on the passenger wall below the airvent. The ground bus is on the rear of the panel just above the lower wire inlet. The encoder is attached to the bottom of the radio stack frame On the pilot side wall is the parking brake and the trim / landing brake relay The dimmer is behind the top center of the panel tucked under the defrost vent Most of the sensor wiring will go on the forward side of the firewall (the firewall is getting pretty full too) I can't find an ideal spot on the panel for the voice annunciator. I'm thinking of building a horizontal frame between the IP and F22 in the center for additional stuff. > Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights. > Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the > wires to a terminal strip? I'm using LED's daisy chained. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N823ms(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Subject: Re: FS: Bendex electric AI
In a message dated 01/06/2003 6:43:44 AM Central Standard Time, neilmcleod(at)direcway.com writes: > > I have ended up with a spare electric AI. The bad news is that it's 110v > > 400hz 3 phase. The good news is that the inverters are available from > > http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/ for $160. > > > > The one I have is a Bendex#1978130-1, cageable with a full ball > > display. Removed as serviceable and kept as a serviceable spare with a > > yellow tag, sealed with desiccant and caged. I'm told it's mounted in an > > ATI-3 rack. > > > I would like photos as well of your AI gauge. Thanks, Ed SIlvanic N823MS(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Rob Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Hi listers After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly wait. Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details, installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should have been included. In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better mousetrap must be right around the corner. Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > If you can tell me what voltage range you'd like > > the dimmer to deliver, I can calculate some > > new resistors for the setting limits. > >Cool. >My LED's have 470 ohm resistors in series per you're LED tutorial. Right now >the LED's go from "bright" to "medium". Ideally I'd like them to go all the >way to "off" = i.e. zero or close to it, but "dim" would be fine. I don't >have an easy way to specify a voltage, but I'd guess that if 4 volts gets me >half way, 1 or 2 volts would be good. The purpose of not taking the voltage to zero at bottom of potentiometer travel is to make use of the control's full travel. Many designs take illumination voltage to zero at max ccw travel. This means that you turn the pot quite a way before there is any useful light output . . . I.e., that amount of travel is not useful for control. LED's are relatively constant voltage devices but they vary between colors. Red LEDs are lowest voltage devices that come on at about 2 volts. Sooo . . to modify a stock dimmer for a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm resistor changes to 330 ohms. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: wiring differences
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Hello Bob, I've the LR-3 Voltage Regulator from B&C, now I see some difference between the wiring in your Z-x diagramms and the delivered installation instructions for the regulator. The wires (FLD) (7) and case GND are 2 gauges smaller in your diag (AWG22) as in the intructions (AWG20). I've done it with Z-11 in my hands, can this cause any problems? Further, is it correct, that I should size the wire from the alternator to the starter contactor according the Alternator size? eg. a 40 Amp 8 awg a 60 Amp 6 awg Many thanks for a clarification. Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Indexing the 'Connection
> > > > Why do the screws bother you . . . and why 16AWG wire? 20AWG is > > fine for position lights. I'd go ahead and use the screws with > > PIDG terminals. I've seen people solder these joints but > > they loose insulation support offered by PIDG terminals. > > >Bob, I have your manual. As we all know, it does not have a cross reference >to make it a very easy-to-use reference source. This recent post forces >some of us to need to check what a PIDG terminal is even though we have run >across it before in our lives. I probably would not be wrong to say it is >in your manual somewhere. But finding it would be easier if there was a >cross reference list. > >If I had your manual in electronic form, I could word search for any topic. >OK, without giving away your manual for free and depriving you of future >authorship income, what about having a cross reference list of your manual >on the aerolectric web site for everyone to use at so we could find stuff >more easily in your manual. If anything, showing entries for various topics >will wet the appetite of those not having your nice manual, I think. And >those who own it -- it will be even more valuable. Understand . . . in its present form, doing a credible index a a pretty big task. Some chapters are original and still in WordStar. Each chapter is a stand-alone document in the word processor so I can't take advantage the automatic indexing feature present in most modern word processors. There are chapters yet to be written and I have hopes of one getting the entire document into a single file so that it can be published in a .pdf format that would make searches possible. Can't tell you when all this will happen . . . if I had nothing else to work on, it would happen sooner but as long as the AeroElectric Connection remains a hobby that makes a little money, grandest plans for the future aren't going to move to the front burner soon. Sorry. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 09, 2003
> to modify a stock dimmer for > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm > resistor changes to 330 ohms. Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are. Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they? Regards, John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N823ms(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Rob: I could not agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards, Ed Silvanic ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > to modify a stock dimmer for > > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in > > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm > > resistor changes to 330 ohms. >Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are. >Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things >and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they? that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that they replace the surface mounted devices. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC. - no documents -no power cord -no mounting hardware -no thank you Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect, 100 times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter, ASI). Panel pictures at: http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html Scot At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote: > >Hi listers > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly >wait. > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details, >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should >have been included. > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better >mousetrap must be right around the corner. > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 09, 2003
> > > to modify a stock dimmer for > > > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in > > > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm > > > resistor changes to 330 ohms. > >Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are. > >Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things > >and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they? > > that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and > tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that > they replace the surface mounted devices. OK. I can do that. I have to change 2 of the 4. Which is which? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 09, 2003
I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel system down the road. Ron Raby Lancair ES N829R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC. > - no documents > -no power cord > -no mounting hardware > -no thank you > > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect, 100 > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter, > ASI). Panel pictures at: > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html > > Scot > > > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote: > > > >Hi listers > > > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > >wait. > > > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details, > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should > >have been included. > > > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > >mousetrap must be right around the corner. > > > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com>
Subject: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 09, 2003
G'Day Ron and list, In most cases, in terms of current glass panel systems, failure would apply to ASI, AH, Altimeter, TC, VSI and compass as a minimum. Not just your AH. In terms of qualification (without backup), I would require that an experimental glass panel have a probability of failure less than or equal to the combined standard T primary instruments (electric). In terms of the instrument itself, a failure analysis would have been undertaken as part of the TSO process. I wouldn't consider a failure in the first hour to be very common! Particularly an electric unit. In terms of vacuum AH's, statistically Vac pump failure is FAR more probable than the instrument itself. I purchased an RC Allen electric AH with inclinometer, internal lighting and 8 degree tilt at OSH '02. This is for a VFR experimental aircraft installed for safety - I am an inexperienced pilot, flying in Seattle. I'm glad I bought it. Cheers Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Ron Raby [mailto:ronr(at)advanceddesign.com] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel system down the road. Ron Raby Lancair ES N829R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC. > - no documents > -no power cord > -no mounting hardware > -no thank you > > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect, 100 > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter, > ASI). Panel pictures at: > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html > > Scot > > > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote: > > > >Hi listers > > > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > >wait. > > > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty details, > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should > >have been included. > > > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get your > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > >mousetrap must be right around the corner. > > > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Rob Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Ron I had this gut feeling that this was a poor purchase going in. You know, that sick to the stomach feeling one gets when they suspect they are paying a lot for a product of dubious quality. Well, that feeling hasn't gone away. Rob Miller <----Preparing to kick self --- Ron Raby wrote: > > > I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was > going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? > my > plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel > system down the road. > > Ron Raby > > Lancair ES > N829R > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > > > > > > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC. > > - no documents > > -no power cord > > -no mounting hardware > > -no thank you > > > > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal > product > > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the > Sierra > > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I > suspect, > 100 > > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter, > > ASI). Panel pictures at: > > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html > > > > Scot > > > > > > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > >Hi listers > > > > > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new > RC > > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for > about > > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several > times > > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous > info > > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit > was > > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can > hardly > > >wait. > > > > > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty > details, > > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. > I > > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this > should > > >have been included. > > > > > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get > your > > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The > better > > >mousetrap must be right around the corner. > > > > > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Low Voltage Monitor
> >Any new info on price/availability of the new AEC9005-201/202 modules? > >Could not find in B&C catalog or referenced on the Aeroelectric site... Just put them up on the website. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html We're finishing up 15 ship sets . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > > > to modify a stock dimmer for > > > > a 2 to 12 volt adjustment range, the 909 ohm resistor in > > > > series with the control pot changes to 220 ohms, the 392 ohm > > > > resistor changes to 330 ohms. > > >Hmmm. Sounds easy, except that I don't know where those resistors are. > > >Looking at the back of the circuit board I see 2 tiny little black things > > >and 2 tenny tiny little black things. Could these be they? > > > > that's them . . . you can use 1/4w wired resistors and > > tack solder them to the traces on the ECB so that > > they replace the surface mounted devices. >OK. I can do that. I have to change 2 of the 4. Which is which? Two devices are resistors . . . mounted apart from the others. Two are capacitors mounted side-by-side. The resistors are usually installed with the number facing up. One will be marked 392 the other 909 . . . these are the ones that need to be replaced. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com>
Subject: Fuel pump wiring
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Bob, I have the Airflow Performance Fuel Injection system on my IO360 powered Long EZ. The literature on the supplied electric fuel pump states the use of 16AWG wiring, and a 7A to 10A breaker. I had a feeling that the continuous duty current for the MIL-W-22759 used on the cold side of the firewall would have been more like 15A, maybe more in reality. The wire run is short. Unfortunately, I don't have any specifications on the electric motor used to make an educated determination. What's your recommendation? Cheers Wayne Blackler IO-360 Long EZ Seattle, USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N823ms(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2003
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
In a message dated 01/09/2003 3:08:50 PM Central Standard Time, ronr(at)advanceddesign.com writes: > > > I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was > going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my > plan was to go with all electric gauges, then upgrade to a glass panel > system down the road. > > Ron Raby > > Lancair ES > N829R > > Ron: Remember, I am building a Lancair ES too. I going with the Falcon gauges for my AI/DG, electric. Rick Davis at electronics Technologies can probably get both gauges for the money you spend on one RC Allen. I will be using these as part of my primary six pack until Dynon EFIS -10 is completed. $1995.00. Look at Dynondevelopment.com and get on the list to at least secure the price when it comes available. If at that time you choose not to, no harm. I'll use these as backup gauges when it comes. I am also looking control vision iPAQ 3950 as a backup to the EFIS. I have forward your letter to Rick, however, his E-mail is etech(at)ucnsb.net. Ed Silvanic Lancair ES N823MS(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting stuff
Thanks, There were a bunch of things I forgot, I put the encoder under the rack too, then there is the fuse block, and various other terminal strips too. Putting stuff on the firewall sounds like a good idea, tho. I'll give it a chance. John Slade wrote: > >>it is figuring out where to >>mount everything that is starting to worry me. >> > I have the same problem, Tom. Even though the Cozy is fairly big I'm running > out of room for stuff. Maybe I have too much stuff :) I can't imaging how > the LongEz types squeeze everything in. > > My MB is on the passenger wall below the airvent. > The ground bus is on the rear of the panel just above the lower wire inlet. > The encoder is attached to the bottom of the radio stack frame > On the pilot side wall is the parking brake and the trim / landing brake > relay > The dimmer is behind the top center of the panel tucked under the defrost > vent > Most of the sensor wiring will go on the forward side of the firewall > (the firewall is getting pretty full too) > I can't find an ideal spot on the panel for the voice annunciator. > I'm thinking of building a horizontal frame between the IP and F22 in the > center for additional stuff. > > >>Oh yea, and what are people doing for post lights. >>Like how do they get wired? Daisy chain, or all the >>wires to a terminal strip? >> > I'm using LED's daisy chained. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
My BlueMountain EFIS 1 was delivered today. I'll be reporting as I install it. > >I was about to write the check for my artificial horizon, tc etc. I was >going to buy rc allen. Now I have second thoughts. Any recommendations? my >plan was to go with all electric guages, then upgrade to a glass panel >system down the road. > >Ron Raby > >Lancair ES >N829R > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > > > > > > Except for the failure part I had the same experience with my new TC. > > - no documents > > -no power cord > > -no mounting hardware > > -no thank you > > > > Must be nice to be able to provide terrible service and a marginal product > > and still have good sales. My TC is a backup unit as I have the Sierra > > Flight systems EFIS 2000 in my Rocket. Very cool stuff and, I suspect, >100 > > times more reliable than the backup mechanical units(TC, Altimeter, > > ASI). Panel pictures at: > > http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/photo/Scot%20Stambaugh/index.html > > > > Scot > > > > > > At 08:12 AM 1/9/2003, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi listers > > > > > >After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > > >thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new RC > > >Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for about > > >an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several times > > >only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > > >that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit was > > >returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > > >wait. > > > > > >Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty >details, > > >installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. I > > >even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this should > > >have been included. > > > > > >In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get >your > > >product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > > >mousetrap must be right around the corner. > > > > > >Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump wiring
> > >Bob, > >I have the Airflow Performance Fuel Injection system on my IO360 powered >Long EZ. The literature on the supplied electric fuel pump states the use of >16AWG wiring, and a 7A to 10A breaker. I had a feeling that the continuous >duty current for the MIL-W-22759 used on the cold side of the firewall would >have been more like 15A, maybe more in reality. The wire run is short. >Unfortunately, I don't have any specifications on the electric motor used to >make an educated determination. What's your recommendation? 16AWG isn't TOO big. Go ahead and put 16AWG wire in, then when you're flying, let's get some REAL current measurements and see what size protection is appropriate. You can put 10A protection in to start and then let's see what really makes sense. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Solder Sleeves
>Any words of wisdom re. the heat gun and tip used on raychem solder >sleeves? I use a weller with a "focusing" heat tip plus several other >guns (Master-mite and Ideal) but all I seem able to do is to melt the >plastic sleeve before the solder flows. Hate to ruin such costly items so >I've gone back to soldering pigtail to the shield. Any suggestions as to >how better to use the sleeves or a better heat gun. Thanks, Ben Martin The plastic always shrinks before the solder flows inside. My current favorite heat gun is a Milwaukee variable heat gun I bought at Home Depot. I'm always amazed how much heat the plastic sleeve and wiring insulation will stand while these critters are being applied. After the plastic shrinks down, I concentrate the heat on the pigtail side of the sleeve until I get first flow of the solder before I rotate it around to heat the other side. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Connection
> >I have a Prestolite alternator with two terminals for the field >connection. My question is: Does it matter which wires to which on >these field wires or are they interchangeable? One goes to the regulator >and one goes to the battery, I am just not sure which is which. > >Bruce Green >Eagle N110GM IF there are two field terminals brought outside the alternator, you can ground either one and use the remaining terminal to apply field power from the regulator. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Lots of us will be interested in Mr. Riley's experiences with his new instrumentation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 10, 2003
> Two devices are resistors . . . mounted apart from the > others. Two are capacitors mounted side-by-side. > The resistors are usually installed with the number > facing up. One will be marked 392 the other 909 . . . these > are the ones that need to be replaced. Thanks, Bob. I looked at the board under a magnifying glass and identified the resistors. They're the REALLY small ones. I also noticed that one of the capacitors seems to be damaged - the black covering is partly missing. I checked my wiring and there are no shorts. The dimmer gets hot, but doesn't light the lights. The board is brown around the main component. I think I need either a replacement board or a replacement capacitor. Regards, John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > Two devices are resistors . . . mounted apart from the > > others. Two are capacitors mounted side-by-side. > > The resistors are usually installed with the number > > facing up. One will be marked 392 the other 909 . . . these > > are the ones that need to be replaced. >Thanks, Bob. I looked at the board under a magnifying glass and identified >the resistors. They're the REALLY small ones. I also noticed that one of the >capacitors seems to be damaged - the black covering is partly missing. I >checked my wiring and there are no shorts. The dimmer gets hot, but doesn't >light the lights. The board is brown around the main component. I think I >need either a replacement board or a replacement capacitor. >Regards, >John Slade Hmmm . . . send it back directly to me and I'll take a look at it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Surplus Antenna
I was cleaning out the shop and found an orphaned antenna I purchased a couple of years ago when I was considering the addition of antennas to our parts catalog. It's an RA Miller Industries AV-529 which you can find out more about here. http://www.rami.com/gaa1.htm#AV-529 The antenna costs $92.00 wholesale. If anyone wants it for $60.00, drop me a note. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
> > >Lots of us will be interested in Mr. Riley's experiences with his new >instrumentation. I don't have much to say yet, it's not even unpacked. What I can say is that it was scheduled to ship on Dec.24. They didn't quite make it, but they emailed every day to let me know what the status was - they had a bad batch of inclinometers, and had to replace them and re-test the units. It shipped on Jan 5, a delay I find acceptable. Going with the BlueMountain is the reason I've ended up with several extra instruments, I'll be putting photos up shortly. Does anyone have a suggestion for an easy and free place on the web to stash them? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trim on e-buss?
> >Robert Watson mentioned the problem of run away trim in this thread >yesterday. > >So the trim is now at the stop and I can't get it back. I'm using constant >manual pressure to fly the aircraft. What is advantage to pulling the power >from the trim? When the servo hits the stop it shuts down so there isn't any >current draw to worry about. If one is worried about trim run-away . . . why not develop a trim system that won't run away? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Check out www.snapfish.com. You can set up free photo albums and allow certain e-mail addresses to have access. Very cool, fast and free. scot At 09:00 AM 1/10/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > >Lots of us will be interested in Mr. Riley's experiences with his new > >instrumentation. > >I don't have much to say yet, it's not even unpacked. What I can say is >that it was scheduled to ship on Dec.24. They didn't quite make it, but >they emailed every day to let me know what the status was - they had a bad >batch of inclinometers, and had to replace them and re-test the units. It >shipped on Jan 5, a delay I find acceptable. > >Going with the BlueMountain is the reason I've ended up with several extra >instruments, I'll be putting photos up shortly. Does anyone have a >suggestion for an easy and free place on the web to stash them? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 10, 2003
> instruments, I'll be putting photos up shortly. Does anyone have a > suggestion for an easy and free place on the web to stash them? How about my panel? :) I can't afford the EFIS 1 ....yet John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: marc cote <marcjcote(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Solder Sleeves
HI Bob, I have used these before without any problems. The words of wisdom I have is maybe you are concetrating the heat too much on the sleeve, Have you tried with no tip on the heat gun or putting your heat gun further away from the sleeve? the trick is to heat it up slowly. And the plastic will melt or deform slightly but not more than that. hope this helps "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Any words of wisdom re. the heat gun and tip used on raychem solder >sleeves? I use a weller with a "focusing" heat tip plus several other >guns (Master-mite and Ideal) but all I seem able to do is to melt the >plastic sleeve before the solder flows. Hate to ruin such costly items so >I've gone back to soldering pigtail to the shield. Any suggestions as to >how better to use the sleeves or a better heat gun. Thanks, Ben Martin The plastic always shrinks before the solder flows inside. My current favorite heat gun is a Milwaukee variable heat gun I bought at Home Depot. I'm always amazed how much heat the plastic sleeve and wiring insulation will stand while these critters are being applied. After the plastic shrinks down, I concentrate the heat on the pigtail side of the sleeve until I get first flow of the solder before I rotate it around to heat the other side. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Richard: Take a look at this site: http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/jschroeder. You might try to keep posting pictures as you go along and use the annotation feature to add some explanations. Rob Logan runs this site for Lancair photos & builders' logs. He might give you some space. His email is: rob(at)logan.com. We are also planning to install an EFIS/ONE so keep the postings and pictures coming. Cheers, John Schroeder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 10, 2003
I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify the make and part number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both Whelen and Nova use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or Mouser (and is what Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me the maker & part numbers for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. Thanks so much, Steve. RV9 #90360 / wings N Yorks.., UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Still "buildin' the plane"
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: Aren't you glad you don't own a 172? It's really great when a useful tool can evolve with the times, technology and acquisition of new ideas. Bob . . . I own a '68 C-177 and by looking at the piles of parts laying around it, it's clear that it's still evolving and far from finished! Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Solder Sleeves
> > >HI Bob, >I have used these before without any problems. The words of wisdom I have >is maybe you are concetrating the heat too much on the sleeve, Have you >tried with no tip on the heat gun or putting your heat gun further away >from the sleeve? the trick is to heat it up slowly. And the plastic will >melt or deform slightly but not more than that. >hope this helps Wondering what kind of solder sleeves you're talking about. The devices we use and sell in our kits feature a ring of sealant at both ends of a heat shrinkable sleeve. There's a ring in the center of flux coated solder. As the heat builds up in the sleeve, the outer jacket and end seals soften and shrink first. The ends are oft closed to minimum diameter before the solder begins to flow in the center. The only time I've had problems was with a gun that didn't put out enough heat. One needs to do the install with a single application of heat . . . if you take the heat away and try to come back, I think you'll find that the characteristics of the heatshrink are altered and it won't pull down around the solder joint even if you do get the solder to flow inside. The heatgun I use is rated at 1200W. I hold the solder sleeve 1/2" off end of the nozzle. I used to use a concentrator but after the concentrator got lost, I found that it didn't seem to make much difference. As long as the insulation on your wire isn't getting cooked, you're not putting on too much heat. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net>
Subject: ANR headset power
My homebuilt plane has a 9V power supply built in to replace the battery pack of ANR headsets. Don't have the headsets yet. Does anyone know what is the right panel connector to use for the headset power cord to plug into. Jim Bean RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net>
Subject: Re: Trim on e-buss?
Date: Jan 10, 2003
OK Bob, Stop teasing us. The only one I can think of that won't run away is manual. I'm sure you have a much better idea ;-) > If one is worried about trim run-away . . . why not develop > a trim system that won't run away? > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov>
Subject: Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump trouble
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Does this mean that a 3-phase PM Alternator does not need a filter capacitor? -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Perm magnet alternator & fuel pump trouble > ><motor coil) may be sensitive to the severe ripple voltage that is present >with the permanent alternators. >> > > Bob, can you expand on the subject of PM alternator ripple? Didn't >realize that, nor the part about an old battery not being able to smooth >things for the system. > > >Thanks >Dan PM alternators in general are single phase devices with an unfiltered ripple voltage equal to full output from the device. 3-phase alternators on the other hand have only about 5% pk-pk ripple after rectification. All of our diagrams show a hefty filter capacitor on each PM alternator installation . . . which should be replaced every 4-5 years. We also recommend periodic battery replacement for the purposes of maintaining both battery capacity and battery filtering effectiveness. Bob . . . Does this mean that a 3-phase PM Alternator does not need a filter capacitor? -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Perm magnet alternator fuel pump trouble -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert L. Nuckolls, III bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: DHPHKH(at)aol.com I suspect the pump (which I believe is solid state electronics to control motor coil) may be sensitive to the severe ripple voltage that is present with the permanent alternators. Bob, can you expand on the subject of PM alternator ripple? Didn't realize that, nor the part about an old battery not being able to smooth things for the system. Thanks Dan PM alternators in general are single phase devices with an unfiltered ripple voltage equal to full output from the device. 3-phase alternators on the other hand have only about 5% pk-pk ripple after rectification. All of our diagrams show a hefty filter capacitor on each PM alternator installation . . . which should be replaced every 4-5 years. We also recommend periodic battery replacement for the purposes of maintaining both battery capacity and battery filtering effectiveness. Bob . . . http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/archives ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick D." <rsdec1(at)msn.com>
Subject: runaway trim
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Does anyone know what the failure modes are for runaway trim? i.e. stuck switch ? motor malfunction? I plan to have a three position momentary switch, up,off,down, and a N.O. pushbutton switch right next to it. To add trim you will push the button (this will provide power to the aforementioned 3 position switch) and then you move the 3 position switch in the appropriate direction. Good luck, you'll need it, Rick From: "robert watson"<bob1629r(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss? watson" Dan put trims on main buss this way if you have a runaway trim you can remove with master and still have e-buss ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: runaway trim
> >Does anyone know what the failure modes are for runaway trim? i.e. stuck >switch ? motor malfunction? I plan to have a three position momentary >switch, up,off,down, and a N.O. pushbutton switch right next to it. To add >trim you will push the button (this will provide power to the aforementioned >3 position switch) and then you move the 3 position switch in the >appropriate direction. >Good luck, you'll need it, >Rick That's how the big guys do it. Design so that it takes two independent, pre-flight testable failures to effect a runaway trip. This can be a simple "trim enable" switch operated in conjunction with a trim up/dn switch. The King Airs split their two-pole, double-throw switch into two halves, which can BOTH be operated with the thumb to get desired trim . . . failure of either half doesn't stick the trim in a runaway condition. I published a diagram a few weeks ago for a master trim disconnect system that would shut down all trim systems + autopilot servos. This is a very common feature in larger GA aircraft and bizjets. It's usually a little red button on yolk or stick that unlatches a relay. In any case, you want to make sure that your trim system authority has no more range and effect than what is needed for operations. I'm aware of a Kitfox accident where a stuck trim switch put the tab to an extreme position that was almost twice the trim force needed to operate the airplane over full range of speeds and CG . . . Even at that, it wasn't a great amount of force had the pilot been expecting it but the onset of effects were so fast that the pilot didn't react in a useful way . . . pilot got out okay but it totaled the airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
"RV-list"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack
thru 2 Feb - cancel incorrect info
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Hey, RV-list & Aeroelectric List - the "torch" I told you all about is a "butane heated tip IRON" - not a torch. Found one at another Radio Shack last night and realized I "saw what I wanted to see" at the first RS where it was out of stock and all I had to go by was the tiny letters on the pegboard label - probably didn't have my reading glasses on. Anyway, its not a torch. Sorry. So, where's a good place to buy a torch for working away from where there is electricity for solder guns? David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" > > Why not splice via the splices that you crimp? Fast, easy, secure. I'm not > one to "teach", but I've read solder and planes don't go together. Most of > the wiring we use is stranded, not solid core . . . so that it can vibrate, > flex, etc. without breaking. Solder adds, in effect, a "solid core" > section. Anyway, that's my two cents. > Rick Jory RV8A > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> > To: RV-list ; aeroelectric-list > > Subject: RV-List: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > > > On my RV-6 I'm splicing in extra lengths of wire (14 or 16 awg - > definitely bigger than 20 or 22) on my Whelen tail/strobe lights so have > enough wire for service loop, etc. for maintenance/light fixture removal, > etc. First tried to solder with a regular soldering gun but got cold > solder joints due to wires wiggling with gun tip physically pressing on the > wires. > > > > So, am going to buy a soldering torch - so don't have to physically touch > the wires except with the thin solder strand. Had previously figured the > torch was only for real pros like Bob Nuckolls - now I can see that an > amateur like me needs one, too. > > > > Went to Radio Shack and found they are on sale for $5 off the normal > $19.99 price thru 2 Feb or some such date. Anyone needs one, enjoy the > price. > > > > David Carter > > RV-6 - about to close the aft fuselage with top aft skins > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: runaway trim
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Runaway trim in an RV is really no huge deal like it can be in other planes. Everyone should get to altitude and run the trim to the limits at approach speeds to get a feel for what it feels like. Not comfortable, but doable. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 247 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Rick D. > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:53 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: runaway trim > > > > Does anyone know what the failure modes are for runaway trim? > i.e. stuck switch ? motor malfunction? I plan to have a three > position momentary switch, up,off,down, and a N.O. pushbutton > switch right next to it. To add trim you will push the button > (this will provide power to the aforementioned 3 position > switch) and then you move the 3 position switch in the > appropriate direction. Good luck, you'll need it, Rick > From: "robert watson"<bob1629r(at)earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim on e-buss? > > watson" > > Dan put trims on main buss this way if you have a runaway > trim you can remove with master and still have e-buss > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Soldering torch on sale at Radio
Shack thru 2 Feb - cancel incorrect info David Carter wrote: > > Hey, RV-list & Aeroelectric List - the "torch" I told you all about is a > "butane heated tip IRON" - not a torch. Found one at another Radio Shack > last night and realized I "saw what I wanted to see" at the first RS where > it was out of stock and all I had to go by was the tiny letters on the > pegboard label - probably didn't have my reading glasses on. Anyway, its > not a torch. Sorry. > > So, where's a good place to buy a torch for working away from where there > is electricity for solder guns? > > David Carter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Soldering torch on sale at Radio Shack thru 2 Feb > > If it's similar to the one I've owned for about 20 years, it should be more useful than a torch. It works like a cordless soldering iron with less danger than a torch of igniting something you don't want to burn. Also, you will be more likely to get clean joints if you aren't applying a flame directly to the joint. If you want battery powered cordless, Wahl http://www.starkelectronic.com/whl7944.htm makes one but I never liked using them because of limited 'thermal inertia' (limited power). Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kellar" <rkellar(at)attbi.com>
Subject: OV Module problems
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Bob, I posted this a week ago to the net and missed the answer you may have given. I am re posting it to see if you have any ideas regarding this problem. What follows is my original e-mail to Bob through his web site, his answer and questions, my response and finally at the bottom of the message is the new information regarding the tripping of the breaker... Comments/Questions: I am using your voltage regulator LR3B-14 in my RV6. Purchased 2 years ago. Worked wonderfully until 2 months ago. On multiple occasions the 5A fuse from the bus to the master switch to terminal 6 blows. This fuse should have been a circuit breaker . . . all of our installation drawings show a breaker used with any form of crowbar overvoltage protection. When not blown the voltage regulator functions perfectly 20+ amps charge then cycles down to less than 5 amps for flight. Usually the fuse lasts for 1 hr or less and then with the next flight, as I take off the fuse will blow and the blinking warning light comes on. Replace the fuse and I can fly again for awhile. I have inspected everything in the panel, wires, connections etc looking for a possible short or failure. My question is...Is there anything internal to the unit that could cause this intermittent failure? If not, I will continue my investigation of all the wire out to the alternator looking for a possible intermittent short. Do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it read just before the ov system trips? Thank you for your response and all the help provided on the net and in your electical manual and diagrams. > > My pleasure sir. > > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List > to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to > share the information with as many folks as possible. > You can join at . . . Thank you for you quick response. I missed the part about the breaker in the instructions. I'll install a breaker and fly some more and then let you know here on the list. Re: Voltage before the fuse blows...I am too busy flying the takeoff to notice. I'll bring a passenger to monitor this value. Bob Kellar Jan 2, 03 Bob, After installing a 5 amp breaker, I went flying today with an observer with the following results. Start up and taxi, runup all trouble free. I placed various loads, lights radios, strobes etc. onto the bus without any problems. Good charge at 13 + volts even during idle. Take off started and just about at 100 ft. of altitude the breaker popped and the yellow blinking light came on. The observer reported no change in the volt meter until the breaker popped and it of course dropped to 10-12 volts. She noted that the amp meter had suddenly flicked full to charge just before the breaker popped. I unloaded the system bus completely, reset the breaker and then restarted to apply the load. No problems at all. We flew for awhile and then landed, shut down, restarted and took off, this time without any problems. Regualator and alternator continued to work well for the 30 min. of additional flight. The unit was purchased from you 5/4/99 with first flight 10/4/01. As I noted above I have about 100 hours on the airplane and no problems until the last 15 hours. Any suggestions regarding diagnostics or fixes would be greately appreciated. Bob Kellar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Butane powered tools
> > >David Carter wrote: > > > > > Hey, RV-list & Aeroelectric List - the "torch" I told you all about is a > > "butane heated tip IRON" - not a torch. Found one at another Radio Shack > > last night and realized I "saw what I wanted to see" at the first RS where > > it was out of stock and all I had to go by was the tiny letters on the > > pegboard label - probably didn't have my reading glasses on. Anyway, its > > not a torch. Sorry. > > > > So, where's a good place to buy a torch for working away from where there > > is electricity for solder guns? I've kept butane powered irons in my mini-box of tools at my desk for a number of years. See some exemplar tools at: http://www.ba-electronics.com/soldiron.htm http://www.elexp.com/sdr_05pl.htm http://www.hobbytron.net/r-bsi20.html http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/PP-PPSK.html I had a butane powered heat gun from Radio Shack that really worked nice when it worked. Igniter was flakey . . http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-275 The butane powered torch is useful only for (1) very large solder jobs like installing terminals on 2AWG wire and (2) very hot jobs like sliver soldering. I've had several versions of these things on my website catalog from time to time. http://www.chefdepot.net/minitorch.htm http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-270 http://hightechdepot.com/static/Bt-8000.Html http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42099 these were on sale at Harbor Freight before xmas for $1.50 each. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39440 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: PM Alternator filter?
> >Does this mean that a 3-phase PM Alternator does not need a filter >capacitor? Not necessarily so . . . it's output is certainly easier to filter than a single phase but unfortunately, due to the way a PM alternator's output has to be regulated (series phase triggered SCR's) the output can still be quite trashy comparted to a wound field alternator. I'd assume that any airplane would benefit from filter capacitor(s) added to the output of any style PM alternator. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Well, I had my first disappointment with the installation - and it's NOT Bluemountains. I had my previous instrument panel digitized by Steve Davis. A couple of weeks ago I found a waterjet company a block away from my shop, and they offered to do a test panel for me for nothing, if I supplied the material. I got some plexi and had them cut it, it doesn't fit the plane. I don't know if the file doesn't match the old panel, or if the new panel doesn't match the file, but somewhere there's an error. I'm having Steve send the old panel back to me so I can physically compare the two. > > >Richard: > >Take a look at this site: http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/jschroeder. You >might >try to keep posting pictures as you go along and use the annotation >feature to >add some explanations. Rob Logan runs this site for Lancair photos & >builders' >logs. He might give you some space. His email is: rob(at)logan.com. > >We are also planning to install an EFIS/ONE so keep the postings and pictures >coming. > >Cheers, > >John Schroeder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Switch on a strobe line?
I'm installing a 4 head strobe pack and would like to be able to turn off two of the strobes while leaving the other 2 on. Can I use a conventional toggle swich in line with the bulbs, or does the high voltage make that unworkable? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com>
Subject: Low fuel warning
Date: Jan 10, 2003
Dave Lundquist wrote - "As an aside, you can probably see that a "digital" fuel sensor is really not the best way to go. An analog resistive sender produces a much easier to deal with signal that is more suited to averaging. If you are using resistive senders the same circuit in fact could just tap off them to produce the same low fuel warning. The only advantage I can see with the switches is that it would give you an independent warning of low fuel." This sounds like something I would really like to add to my project. I have the standard Vans resistive senders and would welcome your input on how to tap the output of these for a warning light without interfering with the gauges. Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV Fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N823ms(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2003
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
E-bay--under aviation/avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roy Taylor" <Royandjilly(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Whelen Connectors
Date: Jan 11, 2003
Steve, I rang Whelen direct to get a couple of extra connectors for the wing roots, they were most helpful....sent me a few at no cost, not even postage to UK...that's service! Roy, RV9A, Somerset, UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2003
From: David Lundquist <dlndqst(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Low fuel warning
I'll put on my thinking cap and try to post something this weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low fuel warning > > > Dave Lundquist wrote - > "As an aside, you can probably see that a "digital" fuel sensor is really not > the best way to go. An analog resistive sender produces a much easier to > deal with signal that is more suited to averaging. If you are using > resistive senders the same circuit in fact could just tap off them to > produce the same low fuel warning. The only advantage I can see with the > switches is that it would give you an independent warning of low fuel." > This sounds like something I would really like to add to my project. I have the standard Vans resistive senders and would welcome your input on how to tap the output of these for a warning light without interfering with the gauges. > Rob > Rob W M Shipley > RV9A N919RV Fuselage. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: RE: runaway trim
Date: Jan 11, 2003
I mentioned before that I have a revision to the MAC8 servo where a simple voltage determines the position of the trim. This is a true "servo" system. The advantage is that the position of the input control determines the trim position. Maybe it is not the perfect "no-runaway-trim", or maybe it is. But I figure it is far safer than the standard system. It employs a potentiometer, which can be environmentally sealed, or any other method of setting a voltage (like a microprocessor or D-A converter. Contact me off-line and I will email you data. even if you don't want to do it, I will detail some areas of the MAC8 that can be improved. Bob, Did you ever test the stuff I sent??? Eric M. Jones, struggling to get a website up. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
> >I'm installing a 4 head strobe pack and would like to be able to turn off >two of the strobes while leaving the other 2 on. Can I use a conventional >toggle swich in line with the bulbs, or does the high voltage make that >unworkable? Why would you want to do this? You need to switch high voltages that should be as confined as practical inside a shielded environment, shortest practical wires and routed away from other avionics and instrumentation wiring. If there's a really good reason to make yourself less noticeable to others while flying, I'd put a relay near the power supply to open the trigger lead of the controlled strobe head. Operate the relay from a remote switch on the panel. The three wires from power supply to flash tube are ground, trigger and high voltage. The trigger signal is also high voltage but very low energy. Discontinuing this signal will stop the tube from flashing. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: OV Module problems
> >Bob, I posted this a week ago to the net and missed the answer you may >have given. I am re posting it to see if you have any ideas regarding >this problem. > >What follows is my original e-mail to Bob through his web site, his answer >and questions, my response and finally at the bottom of the message is the >new information regarding the tripping of the breaker... > >Comments/Questions: I am using your voltage regulator LR3B-14 in my >RV6. Purchased 2 years ago. Worked wonderfully until 2 months ago. On >multiple occasions the 5A fuse from the bus to the master switch to >terminal 6 blows. > > This fuse should have been a circuit breaker . . . all of our > installation drawings show a breaker used with any form of > crowbar overvoltage protection. > >When not blown the voltage regulator functions perfectly 20+ amps >charge then cycles down to less than 5 amps for flight. Usually the >fuse lasts for 1 hr or less and then with the next flight, as I take off the >fuse will blow and the blinking warning light comes on. Replace the >fuse and I can fly again for awhile. I have inspected everything in the >panel, wires, connections etc looking for a possible short or failure. My >question is...Is there anything internal to the unit that could cause >this intermittent failure? If not, I will continue my investigation of >all the wire out to the alternator looking for a possible intermittent >short. > > Do you have a voltmeter in the airplane? What does it read > just before the ov system trips? > >Thank you for your response and all the help provided on the net and >in your electical manual and diagrams. > > > > My pleasure sir. > > > > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List > > to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to > > share the information with as many folks as possible. > > You can join at . . . > >Thank you for you quick response. I missed the part about the breaker in >the instructions. I'll install a breaker and fly some more and then let you >know here on the list. Re: Voltage before the fuse blows...I am too busy >flying the takeoff to notice. I'll bring a passenger to monitor this value. >Bob Kellar > >Jan 2, 03 >Bob, After installing a 5 amp breaker, I went flying today with an >observer with the following results. Start up and taxi, runup all trouble >free. I placed various loads, lights radios, strobes etc. onto the bus >without any problems. Good charge at 13 + volts even during idle. Take >off started and just about at 100 ft. of altitude the breaker popped and >the yellow blinking light came on. The observer reported no change in the >volt meter until the breaker popped and it of course dropped to 10-12 >volts. She noted that the amp meter had suddenly flicked full to charge >just before the breaker popped. I unloaded the system bus completely, >reset the breaker and then restarted to apply the load. No problems at >all. We flew for awhile and then landed, shut down, restarted and took >off, this time without any problems. Regualator and alternator continued >to work well for the 30 min. of additional flight. The unit was purchased >from you 5/4/99 with first flight 10/4/01. > I noted above I have about 100 hours on the airplane and no problems > until the last 15 hours. Any suggestions regarding diagnostics or fixes > would be greately appreciated. If you have access to a variable voltage power supply, you might try putting 0-17 volts on pin 6 of the regulator with the engine not running and the DC power master switch off. This should be a current limited power supply that will not be hurt by a momentary dead short. Slowly advance the voltage until you see a sudden drop . . . note the highest voltage reading just before the "trip" . . . it should be 16.0 to 16.5 volts. If it is lower, the LR-3 needs some factory attention. Further, what I suspect is that your LR3 is an older configuration which is sensitive to low energy transients present in a few airplanes. OV protection circuitry in B&C and AEC products was modified a bit more than a year ago to tolerate this rare situation. It may be that something in your airplane has changed to begin producing the antagonistic stress . . . B&C would be happy to update your LR-3 -AND- check the OV trip calibration. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butane
powered tools)
Date: Jan 11, 2003
Thanks for everyone's responses. Let me start over. I'm lengthening the factory wiring harness to my Whelen tail lite/strobe in my RV-6 rudder bottom fairing. I tried using a standard soldering gun and a Radio Shack "hands free" gadget (2 alligator clips, small magnifying glass, all on a heavy base) - could hardly get the wires to heat up enough to melt solder. Got 1 of 3 done. 2nd turned out to be a cold solder joint - mechanically bonded but infinite resistance, because the wires were wiggling continuously as I held the solder gun tip on the wires, which weren't being held very solidly by the "hands free" thing. About this time the gun burned out (far exceeded its duty cycle, probably). I assumed that the gun was OK, initially, and just couldn't heat the wires enough, so my mind seized on an old memory of Bob mentioning "soldering torches" and thought, "A direct flame would heat the wires quickly and without my shakey hands wiggling the joint and making a cold solder joint." - That is what I've been pursuing until all these replies, especially Bob's statement that the torch is really for 2 AWG HEAVY stuff. I now have a new Weller solder gun, to replace the one that burned out, as well as a 25 watt soldering pencil. Should I just start over and try the gun again? I have the 63/37 solder. Is the direct flame on the wire not a good idea? Yes, I could use butt splices, knife splices, or "wire nuts" (I'm just kidding), instead of soldering. I'm just following Bob's previously stated opinion that he prefers a solder joint to the crimped joints, in some cases, as a general rule, etc, etc. (not trying to put words in his mouth, just trying to recall what I've "learned" or remember from this list). David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Butane powered tools > > > > > > >David Carter wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey, RV-list & Aeroelectric List - the "torch" I told you all about is a > > > "butane heated tip IRON" - not a torch. Found one at another Radio Shack > > > last night and realized I "saw what I wanted to see" at the first RS where > > > it was out of stock and all I had to go by was the tiny letters on the > > > pegboard label - probably didn't have my reading glasses on. Anyway, its > > > not a torch. Sorry. > > > > > > So, where's a good place to buy a torch for working away from where there > > > is electricity for solder guns? > > I've kept butane powered irons in my mini-box of tools > at my desk for a number of years. See some exemplar > tools at: > > http://www.ba-electronics.com/soldiron.htm > http://www.elexp.com/sdr_05pl.htm > http://www.hobbytron.net/r-bsi20.html > http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/PP-PPSK.html > > > I had a butane powered heat gun from Radio Shack that > really worked nice when it worked. Igniter was flakey . . > > http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-275 > > > The butane powered torch is useful only for (1) very large > solder jobs like installing terminals on 2AWG wire and (2) > very hot jobs like sliver soldering. I've had several > versions of these things on my website catalog from time > to time. > > http://www.chefdepot.net/minitorch.htm > http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=370-270 > http://hightechdepot.com/static/Bt-8000.Html > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42099 > > > these were on sale at Harbor Freight before xmas for $1.50 each. > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39440 > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "royt.or" <royt.or(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs with AeroLectric

Date: Jan 11, 2003
For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs on the same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, Randall uses a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the dimmer, allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs are getting the "keep warm" voltage. Regards, Roy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2003
From: richard(at)riley.net
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
> Why would you want to do this? My plane (a canard pusher) already has 2 nice, clear lenses just on each side of the nose. They currently have mounts for MR-16 bulbs, as landing lights. Unfortunately the amount of light they put out is (IMHP) inadequate. I'm going to a pair of 50 W HID's on the main gear, which still leaves me with these clear lenses. My thought was to put a couple of strobes behind them. But then I thought at night with a little moisture in the air it might be pretty annoying to have all that blinking directly in front of me, so, some way to switch them off while leaving the wing strobes on. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Darrah" <RDarrah(at)austin.rr.com>
Subject: Runaway trim control
Date: Jan 11, 2003
I can't prevent runaway trim, but my system allows me to control it (at least on the bench). I put in a three position switch, up-on (normal). Center-off, and momentary down is reverse. When the trim runs away, hit and hold the reverse until it gets back in the proper area, then off. Works great on the bench! Bob Darrah ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2003
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was
Butan... In a message dated 1/11/2003 12:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcarter(at)datarecall.net writes: > > I'm lengthening the factory wiring harness to my Whelen tail lite/strobe in > my RV-6 rudder bottom fairing. I tried using a standard soldering gun and > a Radio Shack "hands free" gadget (2 alligator clips, small magnifying > glass, all on a heavy base) - could hardly get the wires to heat up enough > to melt solder. Got 1 of 3 done. 2nd turned out to be a cold solder > joint - mechanically bonded but infinite resistance, because the wires were > wiggling continuously as I held the solder gun tip on the wires, which > weren't being held very solidly by the "hands free" thing. > > About this time the gun burned out (far exceeded its duty cycle, probably). > > I assumed that the gun was OK, initially, and just couldn't heat the wires > enough, so my mind seized on an old memory of Bob mentioning "soldering > torches" and thought, "A direct flame would heat the wires quickly and > without my shakey hands wiggling the joint and making a cold solder joint." > - That is what I've been pursuing until all these replies, especially > Bob's statement that the torch is really for 2 AWG HEAVY stuff. > > I now have a new Weller solder gun, to replace the one that burned out, as > well as a 25 watt soldering pencil. > > Should I just start over and try the gun again? I have the 63/37 solder. > > Is the direct flame on the wire not a good idea? > > Yes, I could use butt splices, knife splices, or "wire nuts" (I'm just > kidding), instead of soldering. I'm just following Bob's previously stated > opinion that he prefers a solder joint to the crimped joints, in some > cases, > as a general rule, etc., etc., (not trying to put words in his mouth, just > trying to recall what I've "learned" or remember from this list). > > David Carter > > David, I don't want to sound like a jerk here but I have to establish some credentials and experience in the area of soldering to make my point. I have done tons of electrical soldering in the last 30 years. From PC board building or repairing to wire splicing and connector/terminal installing, etc., etc. I was one of the few to earn a Navy "White Card" in the US Naval Avionics Micro Miniature Repair School (for work center 690) of the early 1970s. A properly soldered connection is superb in every way except wire flexibility near the joint. As a "solder it" guy, it took me a long time to trust the very good crimped terminal joints of today. These crimped devices maintain wire flexibility at the joint but are subject to mechanical strength problems if not done with the proper tools and care. So, if I may, let me give you some of my opinions and ideas on electrical soldering. "The ten commandments of electrical soldering." First, forget about using a flame for anything but the largest of wires (4 or 2 gauge). I feel that it takes a lot of experience to be able to solder with a flame on anything smaller than a 4 gauge wire. In fact, it is better to use a big soldering iron on big wires rather than a flame at all because you have better control of the heat. I have a 300 watt Weller iron I call "Bertha" for battery cable terminals etc. Second, forget about a soldering gun. The secret to electrical soldering is to be able to control the heat at the joint. A soldering gun is typically too much heat for the work that you are trying to do (solder wires of 22 to say, 12 gauge). A soldering gun is often 150 to 250 watts and maybe higher. This is too much heat except in the hands of an expert for this type of soldering. Third, a 25 to 35 watt iron is plenty of heat for this range of work. I would stay at 25 watts up to about a 16 gauge wire splice. It will take a little more heat for larger wires. Fourth, the second secret to soldering is cleanliness. Get everything clean and shiny bright. A common pencil eraser or a miniature stiff fiberglass brush can be used to clean wires. Fine sandpaper will work for this too and then dip them in liquid electrical soldering flux or lemon juice to prep them for "tinning." More about "tinning" in a minute. All oxidation must be removed from any "to be soldered" part. Fifth, about that "tinning," soldering is easier to perform if the parts are "tinned" separately first before they are joined with a solder "joint." A clean, fluxed wire is heated by the iron and solder is added to melt and flow onto the wire in just the amount to just coat the wire. Sixth, more about "tinning," the soldering iron tip needs to transfer it's heat to the materials to be soldered. It must be clean and tinned with solder to do this. Wipe the hot tip on a very damp sponge to clean the slag off the tip and melt solder on it to "tin" the tip. Once the solder on the iron tip is melted, coating the tip, it is tinned. But, the tin and lead that the solder is made of begin to separate in this molten state, the flux in the solder evaporates and the tip begins to build an ash on itself. This is bad! You must keep the tip clean and tinned at all times. Heat will not transfer through ash on a "dirty" iron tip. This means before every single joint is soldered or every wire tinning operation is done. Keep that tip clean and tinned, and you will be on your way to being a master solderer. Seventh, make the joint quickly. The name of the game is to melt the solder and keep it melted for only a few seconds while it flows into the joint and then get the heat away from it. When the solder is kept at the molten state it begins to separate into tin and lead and this is bad! The joint will be dull looking (lead is dull). It needs to look shiny and bright to indicate that it was not over heated or cooked into a highly resistive or "cold" solder joint. Lead is a poor electrical conductor by itself. Don't allow the tin and lead to separate by keeping the heat on it too long. Eighth, more about that tinned soldering iron tip. The freshly cleaned and tinned soldering iron tip will transfer it's heat to the wire quickly when touched to the wire because the fresh molten solder on the tip will engulf the end of the wire and heat it quickly due to the larger contact area of the molten solder on the tip. This is good! You want the wire to heat up quickly so that you can flow a little more solder to the "joint" and get the heat away before it turns into a bad joint due to tin/lead separation. Ninth, The right heat is very important. An iron's heat is fairly constant once it comes up to temperature. You can vary the heat delivered to the work a little bit by choosing a tip that is slightly larger or smaller or by using a wire wound potentiometer to control the iron's input voltage. Radio shack has one that is rated for an iron up to 150 watts, Cat. No. 64-2054. Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured alcohol. Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder joint! Now where did I lay my crimping tool? John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was
Butan...
Date: Jan 11, 2003
John, I printed your post and hung it on the wall! Thanks for an informative lesson on proper soldering! Jon CH 701 near Green Bay www.joncroke.com do not arcihve ----- Original Message ----- From: <KITFOXZ(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint (was Butan... > Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured alcohol. > Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder joint! > > Now where did I lay my crimping tool? > > John > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: OV Module problems
Date: Jan 12, 2003
> Further, what I suspect is that your LR3 is an older > configuration which is sensitive to low energy transients > present in a few airplanes. OV protection circuitry > in B&C and AEC products was modified a bit more than > a year ago to tolerate this rare situation. Bob, is there a way to tell if I have the modified one e.g. serial number?? And if not, is it wise to let the item upgrade even if I'm not flying before about March? Kind regards Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: OV Module problems
> > > > Further, what I suspect is that your LR3 is an older > > configuration which is sensitive to low energy transients > > present in a few airplanes. OV protection circuitry > > in B&C and AEC products was modified a bit more than > > a year ago to tolerate this rare situation. > >Bob, is there a way to tell if I have the modified one e.g. serial number?? >And if not, is it wise to let the item upgrade even if I'm not flying before >about March? > >Kind regards The latest version is an LR3C . . . if you've been flying this one for several years, it's an older version. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Runaway trim control
> > >I can't prevent runaway trim, but my system allows me to control it (at >least on the bench). I put in a three position switch, up-on >(normal). Center-off, and momentary down is reverse. When the trim runs >away, hit and hold the reverse until it gets back in the proper area, then off. > >Works great on the bench! The thing that is going to CAUSE your runaway is a malfunction in the switch. A runaway-proof system depends on operation of two switches to power and/or command the system. Likelihood of coincident failures in two switch is insignificantly low. Bob. . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: runaway trim, webcrafting
> >I mentioned before that I have a revision to the MAC8 servo where a simple >voltage determines the position of the trim. >This is a true "servo" system. The advantage is that the position of the >input control determines the trim position. > >Maybe it is not the perfect "no-runaway-trim", or maybe it is. But I >figure it is far safer than the standard system. It employs a >potentiometer, which can be environmentally sealed, or any other method of >setting a voltage (like a microprocessor or D-A converter. > >Contact me off-line and I will email you data. even if you don't want to >do it, I will detail some areas of the MAC8 that can be improved. ADDING parts to a system never increases reliability . . . only some degree of convenience. Driving a trim motor in a position feed-back servo loop adds more ways for something to croak or come unhooked causing the motor to run in undesirable ways. Adding a second switch for a TRIM ENABLE function does INCREASE the probability of switch failure in the trim system by double . . . you got twice as many switches. It reduces the probability of trim runaway because the likelihood of simultaneous failure of two switches is extremely remote. >Bob, Did you ever test the stuff I sent??? Yes, didn't have any way to load the big relay until I bought one of the SB-5 battery load testers shown on my website. If you're planning to hammer on high current switching designs, you probably ought to have one of these things too. I'm modifying mine to make the stock 0AWG lead wires removable so I can use it as either a portable battery tester or a variable high current load bank on the bench. >Eric M. Jones, struggling to get a website up. What's your biggest hurdle? If you need a short cut to getting content up where it can be accessed, duplicate my site and edit to fit. You can download the whole site to a CD Rom which is still posted at http://216.55.140.222/CD/AEC7_0.zip This is essentially what I did about 5 years ago. It's a whole lot easier to edit a working product to fit your needs than to create one from scratch. What are you using for an .html editor? Do you have some form of file transfer utility compatible with your server up and running? There are a number of very good programs out there. My personal favorite .html crafting software is Coffee Cup . . . See http://www.wizardzone.com/webshop/coffeecup.htm This same site offers WS FTP Pro file transfer software but if your server is capable of working with it, one of the encrypted transfer tools might be better. I use WinSCP. The biggest problem I've had with trying to use things like Front Page is that the .html code they generate is LOADED with commands and effects not immediately obvious as to their function. You'll note from my code there are NO commands that do not produce an immediate and observable effect on the appearance of the page when it pops up a browser. It may not have all the bells and whistles that .html and modern browsers are capable of producing but it offers a way to get up quickly and with a reasonably understandable tool. Hammering out a new website with the bare-minimums tools and programming philosophy is much like learning to program in BASIC . . . it's almost plain-language intuitive. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint . .
. "The ten commandments of electrical soldering." First, forget about using a flame for anything but the largest of wires (4 or 2 gauge). I feel that it takes a lot of experience to be able to solder with a flame on anything smaller than a 4 gauge wire. In fact, it is better to use a big soldering iron on big wires rather than a flame at all because you have better control of the heat. I have a 300 watt Weller iron I call "Bertha" for battery cable terminals etc. Generally true. Second, forget about a soldering gun. The secret to electrical soldering is to be able to control the heat at the joint. A soldering gun is typically too much heat for the work that you are trying to do (solder wires of 22 to say, 12 gauge). A soldering gun is often 150 to 250 watts and maybe higher. This is too much heat except in the hands of an expert for this type of soldering. Not true. Soldering guns while rated for 100-250 watts, put their energy into the WHOLE tip which if straightened out might be 2 to 3 inches long. Soldering guns are probably the lowest efficiency heat producing tools for soldering that there is. None the less, they do have the convenience of fast heat up, reasonably fast cool down and tend to be less hazardous than an always-hot device plugged into the wall. As a mater of fact, I gave my 13 year old nephew his first lessons in soldering yesterday afternoon. We spent sometime on the bench stripping wire and sticking things together . . . with a soldering gun. Third, a 25 to 35 watt iron is plenty of heat for this range of work. I would stay at 25 watts up to about a 16 gauge wire splice. It will take a little more heat for larger wires. "Watts" are not tightly connected to "heat". I've got some 50W irons that are so efficient in transferring energy from source to joint that they out-perform a big soldering gun by a wide margin. The low-cost soldering iron we offer from the website is a 25W tool with a reasonably modern design that should suffice for anything except putting fat terminals on fat wires . . . See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#s101_1 Fourth, the second secret to soldering is cleanliness. Get everything clean and shiny bright. A common pencil eraser or a miniature stiff fiberglass brush can be used to clean wires. Fine sandpaper will work for this too and then dip them in liquid electrical soldering flux or lemon juice to prep them for "tinning." More about "tinning" in a minute. All oxidation must be removed from any "to be soldered" part. Not necessary at all . . . unless your parts to be joined have laid around getting all rusty for years, every material involved in the fabrication of a new joint will be fine as-received. A freshly stripped wire should go into the solder cup of a reasonably stored d-sub connector with no fuss. The flux that comes with modern solders is quite sufficient to overcome all but the worst cases of corrosion. Fifth, about that "tinning," soldering is easier to perform if the parts are "tinned" separately first before they are joined with a solder "joint." A clean, fluxed wire is heated by the iron and solder is added to melt and flow onto the wire in just the amount to just coat the wire. Doesn't hurt but seldom necessary . . . Sixth, more about "tinning," the soldering iron tip needs to transfer it's heat to the materials to be soldered. It must be clean and tinned with solder to do this. Wipe the hot tip on a very damp sponge to clean the slag off the tip and melt solder on it to "tin" the tip. Once the solder on the iron tip is melted, coating the tip, it is tinned. But, the tin and lead that the solder is made of begin to separate in this molten state, the flux in the solder evaporates and the tip begins to build an ash on itself. This is bad! You must keep the tip clean and tinned at all times. Heat will not transfer through ash on a "dirty" iron tip. This means before every single joint is soldered or every wire tinning operation is done. Keep that tip clean and tinned, and you will be on your way to being a master solderer. A damp CELLULOSE sponge is a handy aid to wiping the crud from a soldering iron tip. Many off-the-shelf soldering iron holders have a pan with a cut to match sponge that one wets with water for this purpose. Electronics supply houses like to sell you replacement sponges for $1 each . . . I buy O-cel-o sponges from the grocery store and cut them to fit my application for real cheap. The solder alloys don't separate but they do pick up other materials that form new alloys with very high melting points and become chunks of crud that collect on the tip of the iron. Modern soldering iron tips are coated with elemental iron plating . . . iron alloys with solder but at a very low rate compared to copper. The constant melting of solder on an iron plated tip doesn't dissolve away the tip like a pure copper one . . . plumbers and sheet metal workers were always having to reshape the tip of their blow-torch heated "soldering coppers" because the tool was literally becoming part of the finished work as molecules of copper were swept off the surface and into the molten solder. Seventh, make the joint quickly. The name of the game is to melt the solder and keep it melted for only a few seconds while it flows into the joint and then get the heat away from it. When the solder is kept at the molten state it begins to separate into tin and lead and this is bad! The joint will be dull looking (lead is dull). It needs to look shiny and bright to indicate that it was not over heated or cooked into a highly resistive or "cold" solder joint. Lead is a poor electrical conductor by itself. Don't allow the tin and lead to separate by keeping the heat on it too long. If one uses the right kind of solder (63% tin, 37% lead) it is practically impossible to achieve a "cold" solder joint. See Chapter 9 of the Connection for discussion on how solder works and particularly with respect to "eutectic" alloys. The nephew and I assembled a "flashlight" by soldering two AA cells, a switch and a light bulb together. Except for the switch, NONE of the parts were intended to be soldered. In the case of the cells and lamp, we did brighten up the areas to be soldered with a small file and then "tinned" a location where wires were to be attached. After tinning the wires too, we were able to tack the wires to the components with a one-second applications of heat from the soldering gun and leave the finished part so cool that it could be immediately picked up with the fingers. In cases like this, get-on-get-off-quickly has some merit but when putting two wires together or applying a terminal to a wire, speed is not the essence of a good joint . . . flow of the solder is. Eighth, more about that tinned soldering iron tip. The freshly cleaned and tinned soldering iron tip will transfer it's heat to the wire quickly when touched to the wire because the fresh molten solder on the tip will engulf the end of the wire and heat it quickly due to the larger contact area of the molten solder on the tip. This is good! You want the wire to heat up quickly so that you can flow a little more solder to the "joint" and get the heat away before it turns into a bad joint due to tin/lead separation. True . . . touching a dry iron to a bare wire conducts heat to the joint very slowly. I'll touch the working surface of the iron with the end of the solder to "wet" it . . . place that surface against the joint and the feed solder into the point where the iron and wire come together. When working with small parts on an etched circuit board one can take advantage of the low heat transfer characteristics of a dry iron. I wipe the tip, place the tip so that it touches both the wire and the trace on the board and then feed solder into the space between tip, wire, trace. The act of melting some solder into this void triggers the rapid heat rise in all parts to be soldered so that you can effect the joining quickly and get of with minimal energy conducted into places that don't need it. Ninth, The right heat is very important. An iron's heat is fairly constant once it comes up to temperature. You can vary the heat delivered to the work a little bit by choosing a tip that is slightly larger or smaller or by using a wire wound potentiometer to control the iron's input voltage. Radio shack has one that is rated for an iron up to 150 watts, Cat. No. 64-2054. One can make perfectly satisfactory joints with a WIDE range of energies delivered from a soldering iron. Certainly if the iron has electronic controls to thermostatically maintain the tip temperature, it's more convenient to use and less likely to inflict collateral damage to etched circuit boards and wiring insulation . . . I have some $25 dollar butane powered soldering tools and some $500 electronically controlled soldering tools that only put out 50W at the tip. BOTH tools can be used to solder wires that run from 24AWG to 2AWG jobs . . . one should be careful when citing absolutes with respect to "heat" and "wattage" . . . By and large, when you first touch solder to the tip to wet it, you'll get a good first indication as to the iron's ability to warm things up. If the solder melts quickly and the flux puffs off violently, the iron is very hot and one should be ready to move quickly to put heat into the joint, flow the solder and get off before the energy flows out too far beyond the work site. There is nothing like a little experimentation and practice to hone your skills. Make some solder joints between two wires. Buy a couple of 25-pin d-subs from Radio Shack and attache some practice wires to them. Tack solder Tenth, Clean all of the flux off the finished joint with denatured alcohol. Get your magnifying glass out and admire your clean shiny new solder joint! Electronic fluxes need not be cleaned from ordinary joints where wires are joined or terminals applied. Flux left behind on an etched circuit board MIGHT be a problem later due to moisture effects . . . I wash down a finished etched circuit board with lacquer-thinner-in-a-can sold by WalMart for about 90 cents. A spray wash followed by a low-heat dry-off from the heat gun gets the board ready to accept polyurethane varnish for moisture and dust protection. Cleaning of joints on anything but ECB's is not necessary. The nephew took the soldering gun home along with a spool of 63/37 Resin 44 solder and a bunch of practice materials. Next time he comes back, we'll fiddle with some etched circuit boards and use the $500 solder station a bit. It is my intention to hire him this summer to assemble etched circuit boards with both thru-hole wired parts and surface mount parts. It takes more understanding of how the stuff works than training. I expect to have him up to speed in perhaps 2-3 hours total training at my bench and a few hours practice on his own at home. "Cold" solder joints are the least of my concerns for his education. If one is getting cold joints, they're using the wrong solder. I saw a roll of solder on sale at Harbor Freight this weekend. Picked it up and it said 95% lead, 5% tin, no flux . . . UGH! . . . misery on a spool. I don't think I could solder a downspout with that stuff . . . showed it to the nephew and advised that he avoid this kind of solder for ANY task. For those who have not seen them, I'll suggest a couple of articles on the same subject posted at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net>
Subject: List server problem?
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Hi guys, Is it just me or is the list server having problems? I'm using Outlook Express/ Windows 2000. . Last night several times when I downloaded messages Outlook Express failed (trying to access a certain memory location) on opening some messages and crashed. When I restarted the messages were marked as suspect by Outlook Express so I deleted them and the problem went away. Today I'm receiving every message twice. No big deal I was just wondering... Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint
. . . In a message dated 1/12/2003 1:53:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > > Not true. Soldering guns while rated for 100-250 watts, put their > energy into the WHOLE tip which if straightened out might be 2 to > 3 inches long. Soldering guns are probably the lowest efficiency > heat producing tools for soldering that there is. None the less, > they do have the convenience of fast heat up, reasonably fast > cool down and tend to be less hazardous than an always-hot device > plugged into the wall.... > > Hello Bob, As usual, you are very thorough. My little "Ten Commandments For Electrical Soldering" post was written with some "absolutes" that were designed to give a complete novice the best chance to succeed. I have seen too many people get discouraged when attempting to solder two wires together because they got out a big dirty heat producing monster and tried to dive bomb some molten solder on a dirty pair of wires. I am not saying that I have the only formula to joint two wires together. I am simply stating that if these rules are followed, the novice has to end up with a longer wire. ; ) Seriously, the crucial point is that just enough heat needs to be transferred to the future solder joint in order to promote molten solder to begin flowing into that joint and then the heat needs to be removed. The novice will have more trouble soldering with too much heat at his command than any other problem other than contaminates of oil, corrosion or general dirt. A cheap 25 to 35 watt iron clad tipped soldering pencil is still an ideal choice in my opinion for a beginner to make a few successful solder joints. A gun is always on the way up to a temperature that is too hot or on it's way down to a temperature that is too cold and as a result is the most difficult to keep tinned properly. I too have several soldering guns but do not use them unless I am in such a big hurry that I cannot wait the 15 minutes for an iron to heat up and stabilize at a temperature that is ideal for the task at hand. I too have used the best equipment available in my soldering experience and I once soldered a lamp cord together with a fire place poker. The original post here was to outline how a novice could learn to solder two wires together with success. There are many ways to get good results when soldering with a variety of tools and conditions. I posted a step by step procedure here that if followed to the letter was intended to almost guarantee success. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: List server problem?
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Well I only got one from you . I will send this only once. Some services have been know to double send, Phil was complaining about that last spring. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: List server problem? > > Hi guys, > > Is it just me or is the list server having problems? I'm using Outlook > Express/ Windows 2000. . Last night several times when I downloaded messages > Outlook Express failed (trying to access a certain memory location) on > opening some messages and crashed. When I restarted the messages were marked > as suspect by Outlook Express so I deleted them and the problem went away. > Today I'm receiving every message twice. > > No big deal I was just wondering... > > Thanks, > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint
. . .
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Bob is very correct , as usual. BUT John did a better job in getting a beginner on the right track to make a good soldered connection. Remember, "There is always more that one good way to do a job good." IMHO (from my English friends) Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint . .
. > >In a message dated 1/12/2003 1:53:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, >bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > > > > > Not true. Soldering guns while rated for 100-250 watts, put their > > energy into the WHOLE tip which if straightened out might be 2 to > > 3 inches long. Soldering guns are probably the lowest efficiency > > heat producing tools for soldering that there is. None the less, > > they do have the convenience of fast heat up, reasonably fast > > cool down and tend to be less hazardous than an always-hot device > > plugged into the wall.... > > > > > >Hello Bob, > >As usual, you are very thorough. My little "Ten Commandments For Electrical >Soldering" post was written with some "absolutes" that were designed to give >a complete novice the best chance to succeed. I have seen too many people >get discouraged when attempting to solder two wires together because they got >out a big dirty heat producing monster and tried to dive bomb some molten >solder on a dirty pair of wires. >I too have used the best equipment available in my soldering experience and I >once soldered a lamp cord together with a fire place poker. The original >post here was to outline how a novice could learn to solder two wires >together with success. There are many ways to get good results when >soldering with a variety of tools and conditions. I posted a step by step >procedure here that if followed to the letter was intended to almost >guarantee success. I understand and agree. But consider that when someone is having problems with any process, it's daunting to the neophyte when presented with a long list of do and don'ts, especially when the majority of them have nothing to do with their problem. It's the Occam's Razor thing ("Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.") I could have sat the nephew down in front of the blackboard and delivered a two-hour lecture on metallurgy sprinkled with some Mil-STD-2000 and Raytheon Soldering School dogma for good measure. He would have retained nothing of it worth remembering. Further, it would have not helped him one bit at the work bench where he was making sloppy but serviceable joints in 20 minutes (in spite of failure to observe most of the popularly published do and don'ts). The popular systematic approach to solving problems is like someone standing outside watching their house burn. A fireman walks up and hands him a 1,000 page book on city fire codes, "Here study up on this and maybe you can keep it from happening again." I think we can do best as teachers to burrow down to the root cause of a specific difficult and try to impart understanding that gets them around the problem. As horizons expand and new problems arise, go after those issues individually. The skills will be quickly acquired, lessons will be permanently retained, Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs
> >For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs on the >same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at >http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, Randall uses >a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the dimmer, >allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs are >getting the "keep warm" voltage. > >Regards, > >Roy Randall did a nice job integrating LEDs into his cockpit lighting scheme . . . I'm impressed. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Subject: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs
From: Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com>
Bob, The link listed below is broken. Walter Casey On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >> >> >> For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs >> on the >> same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at >> http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, >> Randall uses >> a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the >> dimmer, >> allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs >> are >> getting the "keep warm" voltage. >> >> Regards, >> >> Roy > > Randall did a nice job integrating LEDs into his > cockpit lighting scheme . . . I'm impressed. > > Bob . . . > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Chambers" <schamber@glasgow-ky.com>
Subject: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs
Date: Jan 12, 2003
I just tried it and it worked fine. It IS a nice job!! Sam Chambers Glasgow, KY Long-EZ N775AM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs > > Bob, > The link listed below is broken. > Walter Casey > On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > wrote: > > > > > > >> > >> > >> For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs > >> on the > >> same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at > >> http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, > >> Randall uses > >> a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the > >> dimmer, > >> allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs > >> are > >> getting the "keep warm" voltage. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Roy > > > > Randall did a nice job integrating LEDs into his > > cockpit lighting scheme . . . I'm impressed. > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Subject: Static Air
From: Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com>
The Cessna Cardinal has a small valve in the cockpit which allows the pilot to chose the aircraft interior as an alternate static air source. Question, does anyone know where I can purchase such a neat little valve. Best wishes, Walter Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs
Worked for me, too. R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Chambers" <schamber@glasgow-ky.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs <schamber@glasgow-ky.com> > > I just tried it and it worked fine. It IS a nice job!! > > Sam Chambers > Glasgow, KY > Long-EZ N775AM > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs > > > > > > Bob, > > The link listed below is broken. > > Walter Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs
Date: Jan 12, 2003
Works fine for me as well. William Slaughter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walter Casey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimming LED's and incansadent bulbs Bob, The link listed below is broken. Walter Casey On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >> >> >> For a circuit which allows using LED's and standard incandesent bulbs >> on the >> same B&C dimmer see Randall Henderson's web page at >> http://www.edt.com/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html. For LED's, >> Randall uses >> a 4.7V Zener diode to offset the 4V minimum output voltage of the >> dimmer, >> allowing the LED's to be completely dimmed when the incandesant bulbs >> are >> getting the "keep warm" voltage. >> >> Regards, >> >> Roy > > Randall did a nice job integrating LEDs into his > cockpit lighting scheme . . . I'm impressed. > > Bob . . . > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Static Air
> >The Cessna Cardinal has a small valve in the cockpit which allows the >pilot to chose the aircraft interior as an alternate static air source. > >Question, does anyone know where I can purchase such a neat little >valve. > >Best wishes, >Walter Casey Have you checked out the little ball valves available now at most hardware stores? One for 1/4" or even perhaps 1/8" pipe would allow you to vent the static line to cabin with a pretty small device. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net>
Subject: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
I've followed the thread on the RC Allen gyros, as I was also planning their electric attitude and heading indicators for my panel. I've not heard good things about these gyros, not on this website, not on other websites, and not from a certain kit manufacturer. My flying club has had what I would consider marginal luck with an RC Allen electric AI in put in as a back up for IFR flight in one of our planes. I've gone back and forth between spending $2000 on an instrument that may be unreliable (from most of what I've heard) to spending $1000 on the "cheaper knockoff" (Falcon) that many on the RV list have said is just that, a cheap knock off. (I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that's what I've read.) I'm told by a kit manufacturer that BFG has a bullet proof electric gryo, but it costs twice as much as RC Allen's. It's not a happy situation having to spend $4000+ for a single instrument to get acceptable reliability, and it's kind of hard to believe, but that may be the state we're in. For IFR flyers, this is obviously one of the more important instruments in an all-electric panel. The request has been made on this list before, but I think it's worth making again: Anyone who has an electric gryo from RC Allen or Falcon, can you comment on your experience with it? Does anyone know of a source of information on the reliability of these things? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Static Air
Date: Jan 13, 2003
I think a pilot handbook I've seen suggest smashing the gauge glass with the butt of your flashlight to use cabin air as an alt static source. However, Clippard Minimatic makes very nice valves that look like toggle switches. See: http://www.clippard.be/products/valves.shtml Eric M. Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint
. . .
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Bob & "KitFoxz", You guys are both great. I like, save, & use both of your inputs. The best was the fellow who said he went out and got a new 100W gun and was amazed at how fast the wires went together. I think my gun was on its last legs and not putting out enough heat - it did, in fact, go "poof" and die just as I finished the "cold solder joint". I'll re-try with my new Weller gun - and good tips from you guys. David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint . . . > > > > >In a message dated 1/12/2003 1:53:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes: > > > > > > > > Not true. Soldering guns while rated for 100-250 watts, put their > > > energy into the WHOLE tip which if straightened out might be 2 to > > > 3 inches long. Soldering guns are probably the lowest efficiency > > > heat producing tools for soldering that there is. None the less, > > > they do have the convenience of fast heat up, reasonably fast > > > cool down and tend to be less hazardous than an always-hot device > > > plugged into the wall.... > > > > > > > > > >Hello Bob, > > > >As usual, you are very thorough. My little "Ten Commandments For Electrical > >Soldering" post was written with some "absolutes" that were designed to give > >a complete novice the best chance to succeed. I have seen too many people > >get discouraged when attempting to solder two wires together because they got > >out a big dirty heat producing monster and tried to dive bomb some molten > >solder on a dirty pair of wires. > > > > >I too have used the best equipment available in my soldering experience and I > >once soldered a lamp cord together with a fire place poker. The original > >post here was to outline how a novice could learn to solder two wires > >together with success. There are many ways to get good results when > >soldering with a variety of tools and conditions. I posted a step by step > >procedure here that if followed to the letter was intended to almost > >guarantee success. > > I understand and agree. But consider that when someone is having problems > with any process, it's daunting to the neophyte when presented with > a long list of do and don'ts, especially when the majority > of them have nothing to do with their problem. It's the Occam's Razor > thing ("Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.") > > I could have sat the nephew down in front of the blackboard and > delivered a two-hour lecture on metallurgy sprinkled with some > Mil-STD-2000 and Raytheon Soldering School dogma for good measure. > He would have retained nothing of it worth remembering. Further, it would > have not helped him one bit at the work bench where he was making > sloppy but serviceable joints in 20 minutes (in spite of failure > to observe most of the popularly published do and don'ts). > > The popular systematic approach to solving problems > is like someone standing outside watching their house burn. > A fireman walks up and hands him a 1,000 page book on city fire > codes, "Here study up on this and maybe you can keep it > from happening again." > > I think we can do best as teachers to burrow down to the root > cause of a specific difficult and try to impart understanding > that gets them around the problem. As horizons expand > and new problems arise, go after those issues individually. > The skills will be quickly acquired, lessons will be permanently > retained, > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Doble" <mark(at)mddesigns.com>
Subject: LR3C-14 low voltage light question
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Hi List, i have the LR3 installed in my plane. i used a LED/resistor combo instead of the included yellow warning light in my panel. when i flip on the master the light blinks hi brite/lo brite (note the led does not blink completely off..just hi brite/lo brite...not sure if this is normal?). Bus voltage reads 12.0. when the engine is fired up volts are at 13.5 and the low voltage light stays on, but does not blink. only thing powered up in the panel are the electric attitue, t&b, and dg. my battery is 1.5 years old Concorde...that has been charged up every three months while in storage and fires the engine up fine. any suggestions on why the low voltage light stays on? Is this caused by the load of the battery charging? Ammeter shows a charge. i have the b&c 60 amp alternator and used the Z-9 diagram to wire my plane with the only change being a key switch instead of toggles for mags. now that i type this i'm guessing there is voltage provided by the LR3 that is causing the LED to light and would not light the supplied bulb?? thanks, Mark. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
> >I've followed the thread on the RC Allen gyros, as I was also planning >their electric attitude and heading indicators for my panel. I've not >heard good things about these gyros, not on this website, not on other >websites, and not from a certain kit manufacturer. My flying club has had >what I would consider marginal luck with an RC Allen electric AI in put in >as a back up for IFR flight in one of our planes. > >I've gone back and forth between spending $2000 on an instrument that may >be unreliable (from most of what I've heard) to spending $1000 on the >"cheaper knockoff" (Falcon) that many on the RV list have said is just >that, a cheap knock off. (I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying >that's what I've read.) I'm told by a kit manufacturer that BFG has a >bullet proof electric gryo, but it costs twice as much as RC Allen's. It's >not a happy situation having to spend $4000+ for a single instrument to get >acceptable reliability, and it's kind of hard to believe, but that may be >the state we're in. > >For IFR flyers, this is obviously one of the more important instruments in >an all-electric panel. The request has been made on this list before, but >I think it's worth making again: >Anyone who has an electric gryo from RC Allen or Falcon, can you comment on >your experience with it? Does anyone know of a source of information on >the reliability of these things? Talk to instrument overhaul shops . . . they see lots of all brands of gyros come over their work benches and can give you a better feel for how a product is performing in the marketplace . . . but consider their answers too. I once asked an a/p about the serviceability of the low-dollar contactors we sell on our website . . . these are direct descendants of the RBM Controls contactors used on over 100,000 Cessnas and others for decades. The guy said, "Man! I replace a lot of those. I don't think they're nearly as good as the ones used on the Beech Bonanza (Cutler-Hammer 6041H series . . . 10X the price)." Looking around his shop and the ramp outside, Cessnas being worked on and waiting to be worked on outnumbered all other brands by 3 or 4 to 1 . . . His perception of reliability was skewed by the disproportionate volumes of customers. In fact, the low-dollar contactors, while not as hefty as the mil-spec style are an excellent value. One can cast about the web and get all kinds of positive and negative opinion about any product . . . all of which is meaningless unless you have data relative to the numbers of owners who are experiencing satisfactory service life. You won't get this from talking to owners, you won't get it talking to manufacturer's . . . you might get some useful information talking to people who work on the products and airplanes that carry them. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
Date: Jan 13, 2003
I would also be interested in data on this, because that's the way I plan to go. Gyros have a shelf life, and if they sit for a length of time without being run, the bearings are likely to fail. I plan to spin up my gyros every week or so with a car battery after purchase to avoid this problem. We need to ask ourselves if part of the reason for failures is due to time spent on the ground without running. Steve Johnson building RV-8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reliability of Electric Gyros? > > > > >I've followed the thread on the RC Allen gyros, as I was also planning > >their electric attitude and heading indicators for my panel. I've not > >heard good things about these gyros, not on this website, not on other > >websites, and not from a certain kit manufacturer. My flying club has had > >what I would consider marginal luck with an RC Allen electric AI in put in > >as a back up for IFR flight in one of our planes. > > > >I've gone back and forth between spending $2000 on an instrument that may > >be unreliable (from most of what I've heard) to spending $1000 on the > >"cheaper knockoff" (Falcon) that many on the RV list have said is just > >that, a cheap knock off. (I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying > >that's what I've read.) I'm told by a kit manufacturer that BFG has a > >bullet proof electric gryo, but it costs twice as much as RC Allen's. It's > >not a happy situation having to spend $4000+ for a single instrument to get > >acceptable reliability, and it's kind of hard to believe, but that may be > >the state we're in. > > > >For IFR flyers, this is obviously one of the more important instruments in > >an all-electric panel. The request has been made on this list before, but > >I think it's worth making again: > >Anyone who has an electric gryo from RC Allen or Falcon, can you comment on > >your experience with it? Does anyone know of a source of information on > >the reliability of these things? > > Talk to instrument overhaul shops . . . they see lots > of all brands of gyros come over their work benches and > can give you a better feel for how a product is performing > in the marketplace . . . but consider their answers too. > > I once asked an a/p about the serviceability of the low-dollar > contactors we sell on our website . . . these are direct descendants > of the RBM Controls contactors used on over 100,000 Cessnas and > others for decades. The guy said, "Man! I replace a lot of those. > I don't think they're nearly as good as the ones used on the > Beech Bonanza (Cutler-Hammer 6041H series . . . 10X the price)." > > Looking around his shop and the ramp outside, Cessnas being > worked on and waiting to be worked on outnumbered all other > brands by 3 or 4 to 1 . . . His perception of reliability > was skewed by the disproportionate volumes of customers. > In fact, the low-dollar contactors, while not as hefty > as the mil-spec style are an excellent value. > > One can cast about the web and get all kinds of positive > and negative opinion about any product . . . all of which > is meaningless unless you have data relative to the numbers > of owners who are experiencing satisfactory service life. > You won't get this from talking to owners, you won't > get it talking to manufacturer's . . . you might get > some useful information talking to people who work on > the products and airplanes that carry them. > > Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Subject: Re: Static Air
From: Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com>
Thanks Eric, What a great source. Walter Casey On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 07:22 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote: > > > I think a pilot handbook I've seen suggest smashing the gauge glass > with the butt of your flashlight to use cabin air as an alt static > source. > > However, Clippard Minimatic makes very nice valves that look like > toggle switches. See: http://www.clippard.be/products/valves.shtml > > Eric M. Jones > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
Date: Jan 13, 2003
I recently had to get my Navion's DG overhauled. It is an old vacuum RCA that had operated since at least 1987 without a filter (I installed one as soon as I discovered it). I took it in because the card spun on startup, but it still tracked fine after it was set. The shop found a tremendous accumulation of junk inside due to lack of a filter for so many years/hours but it still performed. I am impressed with that kind of tolerance. The DG is back in and even though there's no indicated problem I'll get the RCA AH O/H'd before I start flying IFR but overall I'm happy with the RCA gyros. That said, while I was there, I asked the shop's opinion about various brands for use in my RV. They said both RC Allen and Sigmatek were good, solid gyros for the GA market and that they could not O/H the Chinese imports (Falcon/Woltrad). They could not see a significant reliability difference between RCA and Sigmatek. When I pressed them for differences and a recommendation, they got that Tim Allen/Toolman glaze when describing the internal construction of the Sigmatek. I can't relate the details but it involved the bearings and quality of machining. Based on that, I'll be going with Sigmatek for the RV or any replacement. I did not specifically ask them about electric vs vacuum so I'll second Bob's suggestion to talk to an instrument shop and get their opinion. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > >--> > > > >I've followed the thread on the RC Allen gyros, as I was > also planning > >their electric attitude and heading indicators for my panel. > I've not > >heard good things about these gyros, not on this website, > not on other > >websites, and not from a certain kit manufacturer. My > flying club has > >had what I would consider marginal luck with an RC Allen > electric AI in > >put in as a back up for IFR flight in one of our planes. > > > >it? Does anyone know of a source of information on the > reliability of > >these things? > > Talk to instrument overhaul shops . . . they see lots > of all brands of gyros come over their work benches and > can give you a better feel for how a product is performing > in the marketplace . . . but consider their answers too. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Static Air
> > > > > > However, Clippard Minimatic makes very nice valves that look like > > toggle switches. See: http://www.clippard.be/products/valves.shtml > > > > Eric M. Jones Interesting web-site. Could you specify the model number of the particular valve you used? Thanks. Robert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR3C-14 low voltage light question
> >Hi List, > >i have the LR3 installed in my plane. > >i used a LED/resistor combo instead of the included yellow warning light in >my panel. > >when i flip on the master the light blinks hi brite/lo brite (note the led >does not blink completely off..just hi brite/lo brite...not sure if this is >normal?). Bus voltage reads 12.0. The lamp driver in the LR3 is specifically designed to drive incandescent lamps. To substitute an LED, you need to make the LED look more like an incandescent . . . see: http://216.55.140.222/temp/LV_Led.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com>
Subject: Mac trim
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Bob, I am installing the Mav elevator trim in my RV-8. I see in your drawing, Pitch Trim, page 4.1 you use 3 amp circuit breakers. Mac recommends 1 amp CB's. Is there any reason to use 3 amp as opposed to 1 amp? Also, I was planning to use the same circuit breaker for the Mac servo relay deck and the pitch trim light indicator. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Mac trim
> > >Bob, > >I am installing the Mav elevator trim in my RV-8. I see in your drawing, >Pitch Trim, page 4.1 you use 3 amp circuit breakers. > >Mac recommends 1 amp CB's. > >Is there any reason to use 3 amp as opposed to 1 amp? > >Also, I was planning to use the same circuit breaker for the Mac servo >relay deck and the pitch trim light indicator. > >Jim The drawings are intended to describe architectures. Details such as wire sizing and associated protection need to be considered for each application. The MAC actuators are quite happy with 1A protection. When wired with 22AWG wire protection up to 5A represents no hazard. So in this case, what ever floats your boat . . . Bob. . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: GPU contactor
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Bob, I put together the Cole-Hersey ground plug assembly - following your article to the letter - and am pleased with the rigidity and facility. It goes on the outside of the battery compartment behind the portside baggage area - and next to both batteries. In fig3, page 3 of the article, you quote an AirSpruce cat# 111-140 for what I suppose to be the GP contactor. This item is no longer in the book. I am supposing it's a starter-type for greater current capability (and shorter interval), but suitable for battery charging and ship services. ACS don't give details/numbers, but I have been told I need 180A for the glowplugs and 240A to crank Old Betsy (diesel). However to be certain, could you confirm the choice? If I order another of your selection, I presume the preventive diode would be internal. The glowplug current is likely extended interval to achieve best temp, but am told Ol' Betsy takes only a few seconds to come to life after glowing although I don't know the coulombs. Any comment you might like to make concerning the current anticipated would be most welcome. Regards, Ferg Europa A064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
From: Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com>
>> I just tried to go to Dynon and their web site is closed. http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html Walter >> >> >> Hi listers >> >> After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I >> thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new >> RC >> Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for >> about >> an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several >> times >> only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info >> that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit >> was >> returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly >> wait. >> >> Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty >> details, >> installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. >> I >> even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this >> should >> have been included. >> >> In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get >> your >> product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better >> mousetrap must be right around the corner. >> >> Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. >> >> > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: GPU contactor
> >Bob, > I put together the Cole-Hersey ground plug assembly - following >your article to the letter - and am pleased with the rigidity and facility. >It goes on the outside of the battery compartment behind the portside >baggage area - and next to both batteries. > In fig3, page 3 of the article, you quote an AirSpruce cat# >111-140 for what I suppose to be the GP contactor. This item is no longer in >the book. I am supposing it's a starter-type for greater current capability >(and shorter interval), but suitable for battery charging and ship services. >ACS don't give details/numbers, but I have been told I need 180A for the >glowplugs and 240A to crank Old Betsy (diesel). However to be certain, could >you confirm the choice? If I order another of your selection, I presume the >preventive diode would be internal. > The glowplug current is likely extended interval to achieve best >temp, but am told Ol' Betsy takes only a few seconds to come to life after >glowing although I don't know the coulombs. Any comment you might like to >make concerning the current anticipated would be most welcome. >Regards, Ferg >Europa A064 That number was selected as a potentially useful part at the time the article was written and before we had any parts offerings on our website. The S701-1 contactor should do nicely. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1 and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: How To, engine sensors and howto mount
Date: Jan 13, 2003
As I have no feedback to this I post again with a more specific subject ----- Original Message ----- From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Master Switch > I have two other question, they (Insight) say: > > ......engine harnesses (probes) should be positioned away from sources of > high energy, such as ignition harnesses,..... > > The wires of the probes itself are surounded with a metall shielding. Do I > have a problem, if I bundle this wires partly together with the ignition > harness (same clamp to the rocker box screws)?? > > The probes I have came with a set out of a crimp pin and and a socket. > Insight seams to have standard wires without any shield and is using ring > terminals with screws to make a connection point on the way from the > instrument to the connector. > > My question is now, should I really cut the wires (breaking the shielding) > with one of the methodes above. Or do I have a better setup, if I leave them > intact from the probe to the instrument 30 pin connector? > > If you want, I can send you the installation instruction as PDF. > > Many thanks for helping us so much with your deep knowledge! > > Kind regards > > Werner > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Website Offline?
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Don't panic, I just talked with Dynon. They weren't even aware that their web server had shut down their website. They are very much open and cranking away. Check in again tomorrow, the problem should be resolved by then. Shaun ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Dynon Website Fine
Date: Jan 13, 2003
I just tried and got on fine. Ross Mickey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > >> > I just tried to go to Dynon and their web site is closed. > http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html > Walter > > > >> > >> > >> Hi listers > >> > >> After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > >> thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new > >> RC > >> Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for > >> about > >> an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several > >> times > >> only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > >> that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit > >> was > >> returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > >> wait. > >> > >> Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty > >> details, > >> installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. > >> I > >> even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this > >> should > >> have been included. > >> > >> In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get > >> your > >> product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > >> mousetrap must be right around the corner. > >> > >> Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > >> > >> > > > > > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Website Fine
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Dynon didn't work for me. Message said "Unknown Zone" Bill Lamb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Website Fine > > I just tried and got on fine. > > Ross Mickey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > > > > > >> > > I just tried to go to Dynon and their web site is closed. > > http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html > > Walter > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi listers > > >> > > >> After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > > >> thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new > > >> RC > > >> Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for > > >> about > > >> an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several > > >> times > > >> only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > > >> that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit > > >> was > > >> returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > > >> wait. > > >> > > >> Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty > > >> details, > > >> installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. > > >> I > > >> even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this > > >> should > > >> have been included. > > >> > > >> In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get > > >> your > > >> product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > > >> mousetrap must be right around the corner. > > >> > > >> Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > _- > > > ====================================================================== > > > _- > > > ====================================================================== > > > _- > > > ====================================================================== > > > _- > > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder
joint . . . David Carter wrote: > > Bob & "KitFoxz", > > You guys are both great. I like, save, & use both of your inputs. The best > was the fellow who said he went out and got a new 100W gun and was amazed at > how fast the wires went together. I think my gun was on its last legs and > not putting out enough heat - it did, in fact, go "poof" and die just as I > finished the "cold solder joint". I'll re-try with my new Weller gun - and > good tips from you guys. > > David Carter > snipped >>>> One thing I haven't seen mentioned: most solder training includes the admonition to first prepare the joint so that mechanical integrity is supplied by the joint, not the solder. The solder should only supply electrical continuity. A side benefit is that you will have a much easier time making a good electrical connection with the solder. Also, I'd like to see comments from the guys with 'credentials' (I'm limited to lots of experience) about the old 'stress riser from solder' line that seems to surface in any electrical discussion. My experience has been that whether you transition from stranded to solid at the solder or at the crimp, you still have a stress riser. If no strain relief is supplied and/or the wire isn't held stable after leaving the connector, it is likely to break. Comments? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering 14AWG wires w/o cold solder joint . .
. > > >One thing I haven't seen mentioned: most solder training includes the >admonition >to first prepare the joint so that mechanical integrity is supplied by the >joint, not the solder. The solder should only supply electrical continuity. A >side benefit is that you will have a much easier time making a good >electrical >connection with the solder. Kinda, sorta true but mostly BS. It is true that solder is not as "structural" as the materials it commonly joins. When the notion "make it mechanically strong first and electrically strong with solder later" was king, guys driving Model A trucks and a few horse drawn wagons were running wires between poles to wire up lights, railroad signals and later, some telephones. Nowadays, solder is both the structural -AND- electrical member in most electronic assemblies for holding surface mount parts to etched circuit boards. Solder sleeves are another good example of the dual role (structure/conductive) capabilities of solder. When you twist two clean wires together, they are now capable of conducting electrical current across the joint about as well as they ever can. The effects of environment would eventually degrade that condition if left open to atmosphere. Solder provides a gas tight exclusion of the environment that maintains the original quality of the joint within. Reasonably clean materials to be soldered will be quite cooperative when soldering . . . even when solder is the structural component of the joint, as long as you're using the material within it's well known limits. >Also, I'd like to see comments from the guys with 'credentials' (I'm >limited to >lots of experience) about the old 'stress riser from solder' line that >seems to >surface in any electrical discussion. >My experience has been that whether you >transition from stranded to solid at the solder or at the crimp, you still >have >a stress riser. If no strain relief is supplied and/or the wire isn't held >stable after leaving the connector, it is likely to break. See articles on terminals at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html and http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf You are correct . . . Crimping a terminal on a wire makes it just as "solid" in the joint as solder does. Without proper support of the wire just outside the solid to stranded transition, soldered and crimped wires are both equally vulnerable to flexure stress and failure. That's the magic of a PIDG terminal . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 13, 2003
Hi Walter, I'm also interested in Dynon, just schecked their site, and they're home. Try again. Harold Kovac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > >> > I just tried to go to Dynon and their web site is closed. > http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html > Walter > > > >> > >> > >> Hi listers > >> > >> After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > >> thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new > >> RC > >> Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for > >> about > >> an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several > >> times > >> only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > >> that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit > >> was > >> returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > >> wait. > >> > >> Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty > >> details, > >> installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. > >> I > >> even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this > >> should > >> have been included. > >> > >> In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get > >> your > >> product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > >> mousetrap must be right around the corner. > >> > >> Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > >> > >> > > > > > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: GPU contactor
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Bob, "That number was selected as a potentially useful part at the time the article was written and before we had any parts offerings on our website. The S701-1 contactor should do nicely. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1 and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html Bob . . ." As always, many thanks for the swift reply - it was tough, but I managed to get 8 hours' sleep before reading your answer............... 701-1 it is. Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brucem(at)olypen.com
Subject: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Rather than spend $8,000 for a "reliable" AI and DG, install a vacuum system with back-up for far less. As just noted vacuum gyros are pretty sturdy with the vacuum pump the usual failure point. A manifold back-up vacuum source costs $400 while a standby electric system, $2,000. Alternatively just replace the primary vacuum pump every 500 hours. So long as the filters are kept clean and the lines tight, a vacuum pump should have a MTBF beyond that service time. As a last resort partial panel will get one down safely, especially when combined with GPS track to maintain direction. Just stay current. Regards, Bruce McGregor --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail. http://www.olypen.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: Re: Reliability of Electric Gyros?
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Hi All, I painfully came to the same conclusion as Bruce. I say painful as I have spent a good amount of my working life in the electronic engineering arena and conceding to an inelegant mechanical solution with known failure points is painful. The approach I have taken is to use a vacuum system, (all sigmatek including the pump) and I have a Navaids wing leveler. The vacuum system has a warning light should the pump fail. The rational I am applying here is that I should get an early enough warning to be able to rely upon the wing leveler should I find myself with a failure in IMC. If find devices offered by Dynon and Blue Mountain very seductive and I am hoping by the time my vacuum system is up for replacement that these devices will have a nice proven track record. Just my 2 cents worth. - Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <brucem(at)olypen.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reliability of Electric Gyros? > > Rather than spend $8,000 for a "reliable" AI and DG, install a > vacuum system with back-up for far less. As just noted vacuum gyros > are pretty sturdy with the vacuum pump the usual failure point. A > manifold back-up vacuum source costs $400 while a standby electric > system, $2,000. > > Alternatively just replace the primary vacuum pump every 500 hours. > So long as the filters are kept clean and the lines tight, a vacuum > pump should have a MTBF beyond that service time. As a last resort > partial panel will get one down safely, especially when combined > with GPS track to maintain direction. Just stay current. > > Regards, Bruce > McGregor > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail. > http://www.olypen.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: LR-3
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Bob - a couple of queries regarding the LR-3. I am looking at Fig.Z-11 1. Pin 1. Is the battery temp sensor supplied with the LR-3? If not what is appropriate? 2. Pin 2 is labelled 'OV PTT' & Note xx. Could you expand on these please. 3. Does the lamp on pins 3 & 5 indicate low voltage as well as high voltage? That's it! Thanks, Steve. PS One other question. Why do you show the diode array in Z-11 and only a simple diode in Z-13 for the main bus / essential bus connection? Am I missing something? Surely the diode in necessary and sufficient in Z-11. Thanks again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
Date: Jan 14, 2003
If you go with a Nova Strobe power supply (I have the X-Pak 904) there are connections on the power supply for just such a reason. There are two on my 904 each one controls two of the heads. These control leads are very low current 12VDC and are designed for just what you are describing. It will flash the Whelen strobe heads too, I have done it. Did I mention the Nova's are much cheaper than the Whelen's. The X-Pak also has a low power mode that drops the power requirement and light output a little bit. It is a fairly flexible system, I think that I'll be very happy with it. The only drawback is that the power supply is fairly large. It's not all that heavy but it is bigger than I thought that it would be. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <richard(at)riley.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > > > Why would you want to do this? > > My plane (a canard pusher) already has 2 nice, clear lenses just on each > side of the nose. They currently have mounts for MR-16 bulbs, as landing > lights. Unfortunately the amount of light they put out is (IMHP) > inadequate. I'm going to a pair of 50 W HID's on the main gear, which > still leaves me with these clear lenses. > > My thought was to put a couple of strobes behind them. But then I thought > at night with a little moisture in the air it might be pretty annoying to > have all that blinking directly in front of me, so, some way to switch them > off while leaving the wing strobes on. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
In a message dated 1/14/03 3:35:54 PM Central Standard Time, phil(at)petrasoft.net writes: > If you go with a Nova Strobe power supply (I have the X-Pak 904 Good Afternoon Phil, Could you supply a web address for the Nova equipment? Thanks. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Subject: alt field and overvoltage contactor connection
From: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Bob and others I've got an internally regulated 60 amp alternator that I got from Van delivering its output to an s701-1 overvoltage contactor. I'd like to verify that I've got this stuff wired correctly. The s701-1 came with a pair of diodes, with one diode running between the two small posts and the other diode from one small post to the adjacent 5/16" stud. Figure Z-24 shows only one diode (at least that's what my ignorant eyes see), so which side of this contactor gets the alternator output? Also, I assume the alt field wire connects to the small post with the diode marking on that side. Does this sound right? Another also - the alternator I've got has a plug with three wires coming from it - red, blue & green. I've determined from Van's accompanying instructions that the green wire is the one I should use, but what do I do with other two wires? Should I just cut them short and insulate them somehow? Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Robert Dickson RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
Date: Jan 14, 2003
http://www.strobe.com/ Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > In a message dated 1/14/03 3:35:54 PM Central Standard Time, > phil(at)petrasoft.net writes: > > > If you go with a Nova Strobe power supply (I have the X-Pak 904 > > Good Afternoon Phil, > > Could you supply a web address for the Nova equipment? > > Thanks. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Phil, with the x-pak power supply, I'm interested in knowing what actual strobe light units you are using/attaching to the power supply. Thanks, Indiana Larry with 3XG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > If you go with a Nova Strobe power supply (I have the X-Pak 904) there are > connections on the power supply for just such a reason. There are two on my > 904 each one controls two of the heads. These control leads are very low > current 12VDC and are designed for just what you are describing. It will > flash the Whelen strobe heads too, I have done it. Did I mention the Nova's > are much cheaper than the Whelen's. > > The X-Pak also has a low power mode that drops the power requirement and > light output a little bit. It is a fairly flexible system, I think that > I'll be very happy with it. The only drawback is that the power supply is > fairly large. It's not all that heavy but it is bigger than I thought that > it would be. > > Godspeed, > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage > http://www.myrv7.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <richard(at)riley.net> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > > > > > > > > Why would you want to do this? > > > > My plane (a canard pusher) already has 2 nice, clear lenses just on each > > side of the nose. They currently have mounts for MR-16 bulbs, as landing > > lights. Unfortunately the amount of light they put out is (IMHP) > > inadequate. I'm going to a pair of 50 W HID's on the main gear, which > > still leaves me with these clear lenses. > > > > My thought was to put a couple of strobes behind them. But then I thought > > at night with a little moisture in the air it might be pretty annoying to > > have all that blinking directly in front of me, so, some way to switch > them > > off while leaving the wing strobes on. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Hi Steve, I know you have resolved your problem, at least temporarily, but if you or anyone else out there has the same problem I went through the same thing and here is the info. The Mate-n-lock 3 coductor plugs can be purchased at Digi-Key. 1-800-344-4539 or www.digikey.com There is a minimum order price so get a friend to go in with you or plan your purchase when you need enough treasures to make up the minimum which I believe is $25.00. These are Digi-key's numbers; Male plug A1429 ND Female plug A1400 ND Tinned Pins for 14-20 AWG wire A1420 ND Tinned socket " " " " A1421 ND Tinned Pins for 18-24 AWG " A1422 ND Tinned Sockets " " " " A1423 ND Since I needed to make up a minimum order I ordered several 2 conductor ones also. I figured they would be good to have around for other projects. Hope this helps someone out there. Bill Lamb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! > > I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify the make and part > number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both Whelen and Nova > use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or Mouser (and is what > Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me the maker & part numbers > for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. > > Thanks so much, Steve. > > RV9 #90360 / wings > N Yorks.., UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 14, 2003
I recently order several of these connectors from http://www.mouser.com. They have a friendlier website that digikey, imo. I don't remember seeing anything about minimums either. If there are minimums, I had no problem meeting them -- they have so many goodies to buy. They have a free catalog on paper or CD too. Just another option... - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Billie Lamb > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:55 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little > things that get you! > > > --> > > Hi Steve, > > I know you have resolved your problem, at least temporarily, > but if you or anyone else out there has the same problem I > went through the same thing and here is the info. > > The Mate-n-lock 3 coductor plugs can be purchased at > Digi-Key. 1-800-344-4539 or www.digikey.com > > There is a minimum order price so get a friend to go in with > you or plan your purchase when you need enough treasures to > make up the minimum which I believe is $25.00. > > These are Digi-key's numbers; Male plug A1429 ND > Female plug A1400 ND > Tinned Pins > for 14-20 AWG wire A1420 ND > Tinned socket > " " > " " A1421 ND > Tinned Pins > for 18-24 AWG > " A1422 ND > Tinned Sockets " " > " " A1423 ND > > Since I needed to make up a minimum order I ordered several 2 > conductor ones also. I figured they would be good to have > around for other projects. Hope this helps someone out there. > > > Bill Lamb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little > things that get you! > > > > > > > I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify > the make and > part > > number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both > Whelen and > > Nova use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or > Mouser (and > > is what Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me > the maker & > > part > numbers > > for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. > > > > Thanks so much, Steve. > > > > RV9 #90360 / wings > > N Yorks.., UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - WIRE SIZE QUESTION
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Bob, Please clarify one point for me. My three position lights will run from the one fuse and switch, the load is 2 amps each. When ganged together I understand that the circuit protection should be for the sum of the load, 6 amps, with a bit of headroom call it a 7 amp fuse. For voltage drop I can use 20AWG wire, which can take up to 5amps load fused (7.5 for a breaker), but could see 7 amps before the fuse blows. What wire size do I use, 20AWG based on voltage drop or up it to 18AWG based on the fuse size? Reference used is AC43.13 Chapter 11. Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kc" <samdacat(at)elp.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Maybe I'm missing something but I just clicked on the address you provided and the site looks fine to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Casey" <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RCA Artificial Horizon Disappointment > > >> > I just tried to go to Dynon and their web site is closed. > http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html > Walter > > > >> > >> > >> Hi listers > >> > >> After completing some electronic installations in the "Bad Cat." I > >> thought I needed to express my utter disappointment with my brand new > >> RC > >> Allen Artificial Horizon. After nearly $2,000, the unit worked for > >> about > >> an hour, then rolled over and died. It came back to life several > >> times > >> only to die once again. No flag came up, nothing, just erroneous info > >> that could have had dire results had I been in the clouds. The unit > >> was > >> returned to the avionics shop where it is being repaired--I can hardly > >> wait. > >> > >> Also, the horizon came with absolutely no paperwork. No warranty > >> details, > >> installation info, or even a "thank you for buying our product" note. > >> I > >> even had to spend $35 on a connector to hook up power--I feel this > >> should > >> have been included. > >> > >> In short, Dynon, Blue Mountain, and anyone else out there, please get > >> your > >> product to the marketplace and give us consumers a choice. The better > >> mousetrap must be right around the corner. > >> > >> Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 40 hrs. > >> > >> > > > > > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > _- > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2003
From: Matt Prather <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - WIRE SIZE QUESTION
David: I'll try to take a stab at it... Always make the wire big enough to handle the max current required to open the circuit protection. In this case, I think you have to make each wire size so that it won't be damaged by carrying current large enough to pop the breaker. Even in this case where the wire is tee-ed from the breaker, you have to look at the worst case scenario - One leg of the tee has a blown bulb (open, 0A), and the other gets a dead short to ground. The side that gets shorted must be able to cary the full 7A. BTW, I think that the 2A for each light might be a bit conservative. My buddy had a system spec'ed the same way, and he ended up with a 10A breaker to be able to handle 8A worth of lights. You could actually, safely run even a bigger breaker, as long as all of the wire could match it. Regards, Matt Prather N34RD PS. Bob, I have finished my basic VariEze system, largely according to your design and construction ideas. I have run-tested it, and everything seems to work great. No whines, buzzes, pops, or smoke. Thanks for the continued help. Francis, David CMDR wrote: > > >Bob, >Please clarify one point for me. > >My three position lights will run from the one fuse and switch, the load is >2 amps each. When ganged together I understand that the circuit protection >should be for the sum of the load, 6 amps, with a bit of headroom call it a >7 amp fuse. For voltage drop I can use 20AWG wire, which can take up to >5amps load fused (7.5 for a breaker), but could see 7 amps before the fuse >blows. What wire size do I use, 20AWG based on voltage drop or up it to >18AWG based on the fuse size? > >Reference used is AC43.13 Chapter 11. > >Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. >Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 14, 2003
Thanks Larry. Can't have too many sources. When dealing with Digi-key I don't use the website I just call them and if I can't find the info in the catalog I ask for a technical expert in the product I'm looking for. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! > > I recently order several of these connectors from http://www.mouser.com. > They have a friendlier website that digikey, imo. I don't remember > seeing anything about minimums either. If there are minimums, I had no > problem meeting them -- they have so many goodies to buy. They have a > free catalog on paper or CD too. > > Just another option... > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > 2003: The year of flight! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > > Behalf Of Billie Lamb > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:55 PM > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little > > things that get you! > > > > > > --> > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > I know you have resolved your problem, at least temporarily, > > but if you or anyone else out there has the same problem I > > went through the same thing and here is the info. > > > > The Mate-n-lock 3 coductor plugs can be purchased at > > Digi-Key. 1-800-344-4539 or www.digikey.com > > > > There is a minimum order price so get a friend to go in with > > you or plan your purchase when you need enough treasures to > > make up the minimum which I believe is $25.00. > > > > These are Digi-key's numbers; Male plug A1429 ND > > Female plug A1400 ND > > Tinned Pins > > for 14-20 AWG wire A1420 ND > > Tinned socket > > " " > > " " A1421 ND > > Tinned Pins > > for 18-24 AWG > > " A1422 ND > > Tinned Sockets " " > > " " A1423 ND > > > > Since I needed to make up a minimum order I ordered several 2 > > conductor ones also. I figured they would be good to have > > around for other projects. Hope this helps someone out there. > > > > > > Bill Lamb > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > > To: > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little > > things that get you! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify > > the make and > > part > > > number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both > > Whelen and > > > Nova use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or > > Mouser (and > > > is what Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me > > the maker & > > > part > > numbers > > > for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. > > > > > > Thanks so much, Steve. > > > > > > RV9 #90360 / wings > > > N Yorks.., UK > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - WIRE SIZE QUESTION
> >David: > >I'll try to take a stab at it... Always make the wire big enough to >handle the >max current required to open the circuit protection. In this case, I >think you >have to make each wire size so that it won't be damaged by carrying current >large enough to pop the breaker. Even in this case where the wire is tee-ed >from the breaker, you have to look at the worst case scenario - One leg of >the tee has a blown bulb (open, 0A), and the other gets a dead short to >ground. >The side that gets shorted must be able to cary the full 7A. > >BTW, I think that the 2A for each light might be a bit conservative. My >buddy had a system spec'ed the same way, and he ended up with a 10A >breaker to be able to handle 8A worth of lights. You could actually, safely >run even a bigger breaker, as long as all of the wire could match it. > >Regards, > >Matt Prather >N34RD You are correct Matt . . . and David, 20AWG would be fine to wire the lights. Bob . . . >PS. Bob, I have finished my basic VariEze system, largely according >to your design and construction ideas. I have run-tested it, and everything >seems to work great. No whines, buzzes, pops, or smoke. Thanks for the >continued help. Good to hear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Battery De-Sulphating Gizmos Redux
While rummaging around under the lathe bench for a piece of aluminum rod stock about a week ago, I spotted a 110 a.h. deep discharge battery that I had stored under there several months ago. This battery was used to power the standby supply for a server that used to be on a DSL line in downtown Wichita. I lost access to the DSL line and retrieved the server about the same time we put the San Diego server on line to handle all the traffic for aeroelectric.com I'd forgotten about the battery. It was a flooded cell technology. My heart sank when I realized that it had been setting unattended for so long. This battery was about 18 months old and had never seen a significant discharge. It was floating on a 13.8 volt charger for the duration of its service. A voltmeter check showed less than 3 volts on the battery's terminals . . . not good. I put a charger on it set for 14.6 and waited. Charge current levels would not rise above bout 2 amps for over 24 hours. I put the Power-Pulse desulfator modules on the battery and left the charger attached set for 14.6 A couple of days later, I load tested the battery and it put out 100A at 8.5 volts for about 10 seconds. When I took the load tester off, recharge current jumped up to 10A. Came back two days later and recharge current was still hanging around 2A . . . another load test was more encouraging, 180A for 10 seconds. Two days later, a third load test gave me 180A again but recharge current never dropped below 2A. Conclusion: for this particular experiment, a totally dead and abused battery was resurrected to the extent that it might crank an engine on a warm day. Self-discharge current was quite high and showed no signs of retreating. The desulfator did seem to stir some activity back into the battery but no where near its original capacity (This battery load tests new at 800+ amps for over 30 seconds) and of course, self discharge currents on the order of less than 100 mA should be expected. If I get another chance to try this gizmo, I'll let you all know how it comes out. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - WIRE SIZE QUESTION
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Hi all, just measured the load on my aeroflash units with a 12V Batterie: Average Peak each Nav bulb: 1.98A have to check again, is 3.24A in my list! each Pos bulb: 1.72 A 2.18A each Strobe: 1.55A 1.65A Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - WIRE SIZE QUESTION > > David: > > I'll try to take a stab at it... Always make the wire big enough to > handle the > max current required to open the circuit protection. In this case, I > think you > have to make each wire size so that it won't be damaged by carrying current > large enough to pop the breaker. Even in this case where the wire is tee-ed > from the breaker, you have to look at the worst case scenario - One leg of > the tee has a blown bulb (open, 0A), and the other gets a dead short to > ground. > The side that gets shorted must be able to cary the full 7A. > > BTW, I think that the 2A for each light might be a bit conservative. My > buddy had a system spec'ed the same way, and he ended up with a 10A > breaker to be able to handle 8A worth of lights. You could actually, safely > run even a bigger breaker, as long as all of the wire could match it. > > Regards, > > Matt Prather > N34RD > > PS. Bob, I have finished my basic VariEze system, largely according > to your design and construction ideas. I have run-tested it, and everything > seems to work great. No whines, buzzes, pops, or smoke. Thanks for the > continued help. > > > Francis, David CMDR wrote: > > > > > > >Bob, > >Please clarify one point for me. > > > >My three position lights will run from the one fuse and switch, the load is > >2 amps each. When ganged together I understand that the circuit protection > >should be for the sum of the load, 6 amps, with a bit of headroom call it a > >7 amp fuse. For voltage drop I can use 20AWG wire, which can take up to > >5amps load fused (7.5 for a breaker), but could see 7 amps before the fuse > >blows. What wire size do I use, 20AWG based on voltage drop or up it to > >18AWG based on the fuse size? > > > >Reference used is AC43.13 Chapter 11. > > > >Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE. > >Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: WIRE SIZE QUESTION and ALTERNATOR LOADS
> > >Hi all, > >just measured the load on my aeroflash units with a 12V Batterie: > > Average Peak > each Nav bulb: 1.98A have to check again, is 3.24A in my list! > each Pos bulb: 1.72 A 2.18A > each Strobe: 1.55A 1.65A > >Werner What are you calling a Nav bulb and Position bulb? How many total lamps are in your nav/position system . . . 3 or 4 lamps? Can you look at the lamps and give me part numbers off of the lamps? By and large, incandescent lamps are rather predictable with respect to current draw vs. light output. For example, looking over a miniature lamp catalog I have, lamps that draw 1.50 amps are 22-26 Candle Power, lamps that draw 1.9 to 2.1 amps are 30-32 Candle Power. There are dozens of part numbers for lamps in the higher and lower group of light outputs listed with minor differences in package and recommended application. If one has a 4-lamp, position light set (Grn/Wht left wing, Red/Wht right wing) then the maximum anticipated current draw for the largest lamps commonly available would be about 8A. The largest 3-light system would be about 6A. In the former case, 10A circuit protection and 16AWG wire would be attractive. In the later case, 7.5A protection and 20AWG wire would suffice. If the current readings Werner made were 1.98 for the red/grn lamps and 1.72A for each of the white lamps in a 4-light system, then we're still looking at 10A protection and 16AWG wire. This ties into Paul's question earlier . . . Bob, Is the following correct? The position lights are rated at 26+75 watts per wingtip or 202 watts total. I measured the steady state current for each bulb and got 1.4 & 1.6 amps (6 amps total) at 12.33 volts (on my bench battery) or 17.26 & 19.73 watts per bulb. Does this make sense? Yup, no mater what the books say, you can't beat having REAL data from which to make your decision. Readings taken from a 12v battery will go up by about 1/6th as the bus voltage rises to 14v so figure 5.21 x 1.15 = 6.0 amps So at 14.2 volts the current draw would be (17.26+19.73x2)/14.2 = 5.21 amps. If I have this correct then my loads will be higher when I max out my Rotax alternator since the voltage drops off as the demand goes way up. i.e. the Rotax output is 12.6 v & 20.5 amps at 5800 rpms. This rating for the alternator suggests that at 20.5A load, the alternator is barely able to sustain bus voltage at some level sufficient to avoid discharging the battery. Of course, it cannot charge the battery at this level either. As I recall, the Rotax alternator is good for about 18A at 14.0 volts. This means that from the time you start the engine until the battery is fully recharged, you should not load the alternator to any level exceeding 18A total . . . which INCLUDES current that is used to recharge the battery. System loads should probably be 10A or less if you'd like to get the battery recharged with some dispatch. So for night flight with the semi-useless power hog that is position lights, you may want to keep powered up electro- whizzies to a minimum until the battery recharge current falls below 2A or so . . . and then turn on the rest of your toys. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: alt field and overvoltage contactor
connection ><robert@thenews-journal.com> > >Bob and others > >I've got an internally regulated 60 amp alternator that I got from Van >delivering its output to an s701-1 overvoltage contactor. I'd like to verify >that I've got this stuff wired correctly. > >The s701-1 came with a pair of diodes, with one diode running between the >two small posts and the other diode from one small post to the adjacent >5/16" stud. Figure Z-24 shows only one diode (at least that's what my >ignorant eyes see), so which side of this contactor gets the alternator >output? Also, I assume the alt field wire connects to the small post with >the diode marking on that side. Does this sound right? The S701-1 contactor should have been shipped to you with one diode and a jumper wire as shown in http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg To use the S701-1 as a OV disconnect contactor in the b-lead of your alternator, the jumper is removed, the terminal marked TO MASTER SWITCH goes to ground, the terminal that used to have the jumper on it goes to your alternator control switch, crowbar ovm and alternator control lead. >Another also - the alternator I've got has a plug with three wires coming >from it - red, blue & green. I've determined from Van's accompanying >instructions that the green wire is the one I should use, but what do I do >with other two wires? Should I just cut them short and insulate them >somehow? Cut them off right at the connector. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR-3
> > >Bob - a couple of queries regarding the LR-3. I am looking at Fig.Z-11 > >1. Pin 1. Is the battery temp sensor supplied with the LR-3? If not >what is appropriate? fewer than 1% of our customers can take advantage of the battery temperature sensor. If you plan to cruise at 25,000 ft for hours at a time, land, refuel and cruise at 25,000 ft for a few more hours, you don't need the battery temp sensor. >2. Pin 2 is labelled 'OV PTT' & Note xx. Could you expand on these >please. We used to show extending this wire into the cockpit to a Press to Test button . . . but folks were testing the thing about every flight. Not necessary. We disconnected the lead and now recommend that you test the OV ever so often, like every oil change. Momentarily jumper 2 to 6 and turn on the master switch. This should pop your ALT FLD breaker. >3. Does the lamp on pins 3 & 5 indicate low voltage as well as high >voltage? Just low voltage . . . an overvoltage condition lasts only for tens of milliseconds before the ALT FLD breaker opens whereupon a high voltage condition quickly reverts to a low voltage condition. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JEEdmondson(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Subject: fuse question
Bob, I have purchased and read your excelent book. I agree with your methods but have a question. You say that if something causes a fuse to blow, replacing the fuse in flight, or re-setting a breaker is not necessary because the problem still exists and will just blow/pop again. On more than one occasion, in autos that I have owned, I have had to replace a blown fuse that never blew again. Dont know what caused it to blow, nothing was repaired and nothing changed. For example, in a 95 ranger truck I had, the cruise control stoped working. I changed the fuse and it worked fine and never blew the fuse again. What can cause a fuse to blow when there is no apparent problem? Jimmy Edmondson jeedmondson(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: fuse question
> >Bob, >I have purchased and read your excelent book. >I agree with your methods but have a question. > >You say that if something causes a fuse to blow, replacing the fuse in >flight, or re-setting a breaker is not necessary because the problem still >exists and will just blow/pop again. On more than one occasion, in autos that >I have owned, I have had to replace a blown fuse that never blew again. Dont >know what caused it to blow, nothing was repaired and nothing changed. For >example, in a 95 ranger truck I had, the cruise control stoped working. I >changed the fuse and it worked fine and never blew the fuse again. > >What can cause a fuse to blow when there is no apparent problem? Happens in airplanes too . . . In airplanes, the problem is most likely an undersized fuse/breaker for the task. In a certified ship, there's precious little the po' guy can do about it. To fix a design flaw is a major undertaking in a certified aircraft. In your OBAM aircraft, you re-evaluate your fuse/breaker/wire selection decision and probably decided to upsize the circuit whereupon the nuisance tripping problem stops. There may be intermittent events to consider but only lightly. I had a Voyager that would occasionally pop a fuse when engaging the cruise control. Same fuse powered a bunch of panel instruments. It would do it only very occasionally so I just carried extra fuses. After several years, the stalk that mounted cruise controls cracked and required replacement of the assembly. Fuse never popped again. Keep in mind that these anecdotal stories are not a basis for modifying decisions for design and/or flight operations. The public is taught to fear lots of things based upon poor reasoning . . . and pilots are as vulnerable if not more so. The ways that any system can become unusable by NOT popping a fuse generally outnumber the ways that it fails and does pop a fuse by a factor of 10:1 or more. Why would it be a good idea to gather up a fist full of spare fuses and mount your fuse block for in-flight accessibility when (1) majority failures are not likely to open a fuse, (2) if it does open a fuse, likelihood of getting system back by replacing fuse is small and (3) while you're fiddling with systems failure analysis and hoping for a remedy, you are NOT BEING A PILOT? EVERY mid air between airplanes involves up to 4 pilots with their heads down. EVERY system in your airplane is subject to failure either due to normal wear-out or quality issues . . . if any system is highly prized for its ability to assist in comfortable continuation of flight, you'd better pack a stand-by replacement for it either in your flight bag or mounted to the panel. If you've got backups for things you really need, then the idea of in-flight fuse-fiddling becomes a small, virtually insignificant consideration for overall flight safety and comfort. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Subject: New books for Homebuilders
From: sonja.englert(at)juno.com
Hi everyone, I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer, pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com. They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane. Cheers, Sonja Englert www.caroengineering.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Subject: Re: fuse question
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Water. > > Bob, > I have purchased and read your excelent book. > I agree with your methods but have a question. > > You say that if something causes a fuse to blow, replacing the fuse in > flight, or re-setting a breaker is not necessary because the problem > still exists and will just blow/pop again. On more than one occasion, > in autos that I have owned, I have had to replace a blown fuse that > never blew again. Dont know what caused it to blow, nothing was > repaired and nothing changed. For example, in a 95 ranger truck I had, > the cruise control stoped working. I changed the fuse and it worked > fine and never blew the fuse again. > > What can cause a fuse to blow when there is no apparent problem? > > Jimmy Edmondson > jeedmondson(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Low Cost Wig-Wag
With thanks to Larry Martin who e-mailed me a copy of his recommendations for a low cost Wig-Wag system, I have taken his suggestion and expanded upon it. There are a variety of three-terminal flashers suited to wig-wag service on our airplanes. A part suggested by Larry is a Wagner 537-12 http://www.copcars.com/able2/17-0537%20.htm There are lots of thermal flashers that would work but my personal preference leans toward a solid state flasher that uses a real relay to alternate power connections between the lamp circuits. These tend to be more uniform in flash rate, duty cycle and are more robust. I've twisted B&C's arm and they've laid in a stock of solid state flashers that will do the job. Whatever flasher you use, you can wire it up as shown here: http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Bill / Larry - thanks for that. Can either of you easily translate that into the AMP part numbers? Then I can just buy them locally. Thanks, Steve. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billie Lamb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! Hi Steve, I know you have resolved your problem, at least temporarily, but if you or anyone else out there has the same problem I went through the same thing and here is the info. The Mate-n-lock 3 coductor plugs can be purchased at Digi-Key. 1-800-344-4539 or www.digikey.com There is a minimum order price so get a friend to go in with you or plan your purchase when you need enough treasures to make up the minimum which I believe is $25.00. These are Digi-key's numbers; Male plug A1429 ND Female plug A1400 ND Tinned Pins for 14-20 AWG wire A1420 ND Tinned socket " " " " A1421 ND Tinned Pins for 18-24 AWG " A1422 ND Tinned Sockets " " " " A1423 ND Since I needed to make up a minimum order I ordered several 2 conductor ones also. I figured they would be good to have around for other projects. Hope this helps someone out there. Bill Lamb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! > > I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify the make and part > number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both Whelen and Nova > use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or Mouser (and is what > Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me the maker & part numbers > for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. > > Thanks so much, Steve. > > RV9 #90360 / wings > N Yorks.., UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: Paul Wilson <pwilson(at)climber.org>
Subject: Re: WIRE SIZE QUESTION and ALTERNATOR LOADS
Bob, I still need more of your reassurance that I am thinking straight. I am confused about how the Rotax alternator delivers its power. The Rotax manual gives volts/amps/rpm data and they do not give data above 14v. Is this because of the Ducati regulator? So if I dump the Ducati regulator and use a B&C unit how can I figure out what the watts will be at say 14.2V. When I interpolated the Rotax data I got the following at Rotax recommended cruise at 5000 to 5500 rpms for the 912UL : Interpolating their DC output data: @5000 rpm 12.69 v/19.3 amps = 245 watts @5500 rpm 12.63 v/20.05 amps = 253 watts (This is from the same data as below "i.e. the Rotax output is 12.6 v & 20.5 amps at 5800 rpms") QUESTION: With a proper regulator will the Rotax deliver the following: @ 5000RPM 245W/14.2V/17.25A or 245W/14V/17.50A and @ 5500RPM 253W/14.2V/17.82A or 253W/14V/18.07A And if I am correct I have derived your 18A number. Will the Ducati regulator do this or do I need a better unit? Thanks, Paul ========== > > >> >> >>Hi all, >> >>just measured the load on my aeroflash units with a 12V Batterie: >> >> Average Peak >> each Nav bulb: 1.98A have to check again, is 3.24A in my list! >> each Pos bulb: 1.72 A 2.18A >> each Strobe: 1.55A 1.65A >> >>Werner > > What are you calling a Nav bulb and Position bulb? How many > total lamps are in your nav/position system . . . 3 or 4 lamps? > Can you look at the lamps and give me part numbers off of > the lamps? > > By and large, incandescent lamps are rather predictable > with respect to current draw vs. light output. For example, > looking over a miniature lamp catalog I have, lamps that > draw 1.50 amps are 22-26 Candle Power, lamps that draw > 1.9 to 2.1 amps are 30-32 Candle Power. There are dozens > of part numbers for lamps in the higher and lower group > of light outputs listed with minor differences in package > and recommended application. > > If one has a 4-lamp, position light set (Grn/Wht left wing, > Red/Wht right wing) then the maximum anticipated current draw > for the largest lamps commonly available would be about > 8A. The largest 3-light system would be about 6A. In the > former case, 10A circuit protection and 16AWG wire would > be attractive. In the later case, 7.5A protection and 20AWG > wire would suffice. > > If the current readings Werner made were 1.98 for the red/grn > lamps and 1.72A for each of the white lamps in a 4-light > system, then we're still looking at 10A protection and > 16AWG wire. > > This ties into Paul's question earlier . . . > >Bob, > >Is the following correct? >The position lights are rated at 26+75 watts per wingtip or 202 watts total. > >I measured the steady state current for each bulb and got 1.4 & 1.6 amps (6 >amps total) at 12.33 volts (on my bench battery) or 17.26 & 19.73 watts per >bulb. > >Does this make sense? > > Yup, no mater what the books say, you can't beat having > REAL data from which to make your decision. Readings taken > from a 12v battery will go up by about 1/6th as the bus > voltage rises to 14v so figure 5.21 x 1.15 = 6.0 amps > >So at 14.2 volts the current draw would be (17.26+19.73x2)/14.2 = 5.21 amps. >If I have this correct then my loads will be higher when I max out my >Rotax alternator since the voltage drops off as the demand goes way up. >i.e. the Rotax output is 12.6 v & 20.5 amps at 5800 rpms. > > This rating for the alternator suggests that at 20.5A load, > the alternator is barely able to sustain bus voltage > at some level sufficient to avoid discharging the battery. > Of course, it cannot charge the battery at this level either. > As I recall, the Rotax alternator is good for about 18A > at 14.0 volts. This means that from the time you start the > engine until the battery is fully recharged, you should > not load the alternator to any level exceeding 18A total . . . > which INCLUDES current that is used to recharge the battery. > > System loads should probably be 10A or less if you'd like > to get the battery recharged with some dispatch. So for > night flight with the semi-useless power hog that is > position lights, you may want to keep powered up electro- > whizzies to a minimum until the battery recharge current > falls below 2A or so . . . and then turn on the rest of > your toys. > > Bob . . . > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
Date: Jan 15, 2003
I have an old note here with AMP numbers 1-480305-0 and 1-480303-0. That may be just the plugs without the pins and sockets but I also have their Phone number 1-800-522-6752. Just ask for a tech in that department. That's what I did when trying to track these down. They were quite helpful. If you get them, please post and it will save others the same grief. Bill Lamb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! > > Bill / Larry - thanks for that. Can either of you easily translate that into > the AMP part numbers? Then I can just buy them locally. Thanks, Steve. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billie > Lamb > Sent: 15 January 2003 00:55 > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get > you! > > > Hi Steve, > > I know you have resolved your problem, at least temporarily, but if you or > anyone else out there has the same problem I went through the same thing and > here is the info. > > The Mate-n-lock 3 coductor plugs can be purchased at Digi-Key. > 1-800-344-4539 or www.digikey.com > > There is a minimum order price so get a friend to go in with you or plan > your purchase when you need enough treasures to make up the minimum which I > believe is $25.00. > > These are Digi-key's numbers; Male plug A1429 ND > Female plug A1400 ND > Tinned Pins for 14-20 AWG > wire A1420 ND > Tinned socket " " > " " A1421 ND > Tinned Pins for 18-24 AWG > " A1422 ND > Tinned Sockets " " > " " A1423 ND > > Since I needed to make up a minimum order I ordered several 2 conductor ones > also. I figured they would be good to have around for other projects. > Hope this helps someone out there. > > > Bill Lamb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connectors - its the little things that get you! > > > > > > > I am wasting a mass of time trying to accurately identify the make and > part > > number for the 3-pin plugs/sockets/pins that I think both Whelen and Nova > > use on their strobes. I think they are either AMP or Mouser (and is what > > Mouser sells made by AMP). If anyone could give me the maker & part > numbers > > for the plugs sockets m & f pins I would be grateful. > > > > Thanks so much, Steve. > > > > RV9 #90360 / wings > > N Yorks.., UK > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Connectors - its the little things that get you!
> >I have an old note here with AMP numbers 1-480305-0 and 1-480303-0. That may >be just the plugs without the pins and sockets but I also have their Phone >number 1-800-522-6752. Just ask for a tech in that department. That's what I >did when trying to track these down. They were quite helpful. If you get >them, please post and it will save others the same grief. AMP has a very informative website at www.amp.com Note the Part Number and Text Search boxes that take you to detailed data right from the horse's mouth . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Lancair BMA Flight Testing
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Hello Folks, I wanted to share following posting from Denis Douglas in the Glastar Net. It seems, that BMA made some progress, Bob, as you have good contacts into Lancair, can you confirm? -----------------------------------Posting from Denis Douglas---------------------------------- I have been been anxiously watching the BMA-Lancair dialog/"spat" because, if Lancair tests the BMA EFIS and finds it acceptable, I was sure that I would also find it acceptable. To this end, I have attached (below) the text of a 01/15/03 report from Kirk Hammersmith, Lancair's Avionics Manager. Judge for yourself: [QUOTE] Last year, I promised I would (continue) to test the Blue Mountain EFIS system and report how things were panning out. If you recall, we attempted to flight test Greg Richter's system on several occasions and I reported negative results. Since my post in July 2002, several things have occurred. Most significantly, Greg Richter paired up with Malcom Thomson, who I met in Reno at the Air Races last September. After conversation with Malcom about our negative experiences with BMA, he assured me that things were changing at Blue Mountain and asked for some time to prove it. I agreed to a new round of testing, which we started in October 2002. We installed the system in our company Lancair IV and waited for Malcom to arrive. After our first round of flight tests with Malcom in the copilot seat, we did a fabulous job at demonstrating pitch, roll, acceleration and deceleration errors that were unacceptable. After seeing the errors, Malcom agreed that they had some work to do. Two subsequent flights were made specifically to collect data for Greg to analyze. Malcom arrives back at Lancair (late Nov or early Dec), this time with Greg. Some new software code and flight tests showed vast improvements (and hope), but additional flight-testing continues to show significant pitch & roll errors as well as acceleration and deceleration errors. After again collecting more data, Malcom & Greg left, promising to return with a fix. Malcom, Greg, and Greg's AHRS expert returned to Lancair last week with new software and determination to demonstrate an accurate EFIS/One. The weather was nasty all week, preventing any flight-testing. The Blue Mountain crew headed to Portland for the weekend, returning bright and early Monday morning. No more snog (snow-fog) and blue skies prevailing, Chief Pilot Peter Stiles and Greg Richter took off in the company IV to put the EFIS/One through the paces. After they returned, Peter walked into my office to report the test flight. "I couldn't fail the system," Peter tells me. I questioned him further about the test and couldn't believe my ears. The Blue Mountain EFIS/One performed flawlessly. Additional testing and refinements to the Blue Mountain system will be done between now and Sun N Fun. The BMA group dove in head first, identified problems, and demonstrated incredible support in resolving those issues. Based on the testing standards we put these guys through, the accuracy of their system and their level of support, we will be offering the BMA EFIS/One to our customers. As a side note, the system we are testing has new software code, which is not released yet, according to Greg. He mentioned it would be incorporated in his next software release after refinements and debugging is done. Additional testing and in-flight photos will be available soon on the Lancair Avionics website (www.lancairavionics.com) If you have any specific questions about the system or its performance, feel free to contact me directly kirkh@lancair-kits.com We are preparing for first flight-testing phase of the new Avidyne Entegra EFIS, Garmin GTX330 Mode S Transponder w/ TIS, weather datalinking system by WSI and the JPI EDM-900 Engine Monitoring System. Kirk Hammersmith Lancair Avionics [END QUOTE] --------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
> > > Two devices are resistors . . . mounted apart from the > > others. Two are capacitors mounted side-by-side. > > The resistors are usually installed with the number > > facing up. One will be marked 392 the other 909 . . . these > > are the ones that need to be replaced. >Thanks, Bob. I looked at the board under a magnifying glass and identified >the resistors. They're the REALLY small ones. I also noticed that one of the >capacitors seems to be damaged - the black covering is partly missing. I >checked my wiring and there are no shorts. The dimmer gets hot, but doesn't >light the lights. The board is brown around the main component. I think I >need either a replacement board or a replacement capacitor. Got your dimmer today. The etched circuit board under the voltage regulator IC was scorched. One of the capacitors had the side blown out. This dimmer has seen some hard times. I was reluctant to rebuild it on a cooked board but since I don't build them here any more, I don't have bare boards. I've replaced all the components and re-configured for a 2-12 volt adjustment range. When you power this guy up, unless the dimmer is functioning exactly as expected immediately, make sure it's not overloaded (scorches board), too much or reverse polarity voltage (blows up capacitors). It's back in the mail today. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <WernerSchneider(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: WIRE SIZE QUESTION and ALTERNATOR LOADS
Date: Jan 15, 2003
Hello Bob, > >just measured the load on my aeroflash units with a 12V Batterie: > > > > Average Peak > > each Nav bulb: 1.98A have to check again, is 3.24A in my list! > > each Pos bulb: 1.72 A 2.18A > > each Strobe: 1.55A 1.65A > > > What are you calling a Nav bulb and Position bulb? How many > total lamps are in your nav/position system . . . 3 or 4 lamps? > Can you look at the lamps and give me part numbers off of > the lamps? a Nav bulb is the red or green Navigation light (frontside), Micro Lamps ML 7512-12, a Pos is the white Position light (backside) nothing on the bulb, the socket says SYL TP20 75W 40V, looks like the halogen lights in my kitchen. In the middle sits the strobe (no markings). It is a three light combo Aeroflash 156-0049, they are similar to the Whelen A650-PG The white position light has a separate ground, the red/green nav light uses the ground from the strobe, so 5 wires through the wing (power supplies are at the wing tip). > > By and large, incandescent lamps are rather predictable > with respect to current draw vs. light output. For example, > looking over a miniature lamp catalog I have, lamps that > draw 1.50 amps are 22-26 Candle Power, lamps that draw > 1.9 to 2.1 amps are 30-32 Candle Power. There are dozens > of part numbers for lamps in the higher and lower group > of light outputs listed with minor differences in package > and recommended application. > > If one has a 4-lamp, position light set (Grn/Wht left wing, > Red/Wht right wing) then the maximum anticipated current draw > for the largest lamps commonly available would be about > 8A. The largest 3-light system would be about 6A. In the > former case, 10A circuit protection and 16AWG wire would > be attractive. In the later case, 7.5A protection and 20AWG > wire would suffice. > > If the current readings Werner made were 1.98 for the red/grn > lamps and 1.72A for each of the white lamps in a 4-light > system, then we're still looking at 10A protection and > 16AWG wire. > > This ties into Paul's question earlier . . . So I guess, 4 lamp, about 10.6A peak and 7.6 A steady is a 10A fuse and AWG 16, or I take a 2-3 switch and two fuses with 5A (left/right or pos/nav) and could then use AWG22? Had you a chance to prepare an answer for my engine sensor question? Many thanks Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Switch on a strobe line?
Date: Jan 15, 2003
The strobe in the tail is the Whelen combo position/strobe that Van sales. It has a little postition light with a strobe tube surrounding it. On each wing I have the little Nova 'Hide-a-Flash' strobes sticking out from inside the wingtip into the cavity behind the clear cover that comes on the RV-7. Here is a picture of the setup before I put on the clear lense... http://www.myrv7.com/viewimage.php?pictureid=242 BTW I did hook all three strobes to the PS to make sure that it would all work and it did; flawlessly. The Nova PS uses normal Amp Mate-n-Lok connectors which is what the Whelen stuff comes with as well so it will all connect together. The Nova guy told me to use 18AWG 3-conductor sheilded wire for the strobe heads. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > Phil, with the x-pak power supply, I'm interested in knowing what actual > strobe light units you are using/attaching to the power supply. > > Thanks, > > Indiana Larry with 3XG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> > To: > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > > > > > > If you go with a Nova Strobe power supply (I have the X-Pak 904) there are > > connections on the power supply for just such a reason. There are two on > my > > 904 each one controls two of the heads. These control leads are very low > > current 12VDC and are designed for just what you are describing. It will > > flash the Whelen strobe heads too, I have done it. Did I mention the > Nova's > > are much cheaper than the Whelen's. > > > > The X-Pak also has a low power mode that drops the power requirement and > > light output a little bit. It is a fairly flexible system, I think that > > I'll be very happy with it. The only drawback is that the power supply is > > fairly large. It's not all that heavy but it is bigger than I thought > that > > it would be. > > > > Godspeed, > > > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas > > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage > > http://www.myrv7.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <richard(at)riley.net> > > To: > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch on a strobe line? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you want to do this? > > > > > > My plane (a canard pusher) already has 2 nice, clear lenses just on each > > > side of the nose. They currently have mounts for MR-16 bulbs, as > landing > > > lights. Unfortunately the amount of light they put out is (IMHP) > > > inadequate. I'm going to a pair of 50 W HID's on the main gear, which > > > still leaves me with these clear lenses. > > > > > > My thought was to put a couple of strobes behind them. But then I > thought > > > at night with a little moisture in the air it might be pretty annoying > to > > > have all that blinking directly in front of me, so, some way to switch > > them > > > off while leaving the wing strobes on. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dead Dimmer?
Date: Jan 15, 2003
> Got your dimmer today. The etched circuit board under the > voltage regulator IC was scorched. One of the capacitors > had the side blown out. This dimmer has seen some hard times. Hmmm. Now I feel like a klutse. I wonder what I did. I definately didnt install it reverse polarity. Maybe there was an intermittent short in one of the outlets which isnt connected yet. The total load it was getting was a goose neck light, four LEDs and a small dome light. I dont think I ever ran them all at once. I'll double check the draw on each of the circuits before I reconnect it. > I've replaced all the components and re-configured for > a 2-12 volt adjustment range. When you power this guy > up, unless the dimmer is functioning exactly as expected > immediately, make sure it's not overloaded (scorches board), > too much or reverse polarity voltage (blows up capacitors). > > It's back in the mail today. Spectacular service! Thank you very much. I'll try really hard not to break anything else. John Slade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lancair BMA Flight Testing
> > >Hello Folks, > >I wanted to share following posting from Denis Douglas in the Glastar Net. > >It seems, that BMA made some progress, Bob, as you have good contacts into >Lancair, can you confirm? I spoke with Kirk on another matter just after they finished installing the system in the airplane. Kirk told me about weather problems and said the BMA crew retired to Portland to wait it out. I've not spoken with him since. This is good news indeed! I'll call Kirk tomorrow and see if he has any nitty-gritty details to share. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Switch Alternatives for Galls flashers
Mark Phillips wrote: > > Hello agin A-list- > > I have been searching without luck for ANY alternative to bat-handle > toggle switches for my panel- let's face it, when was the last time you > plopped yer fanny down in a $60K sports car and saw bat-handles? The > combinations of these critters that Bob shows in the Connection are > testimony to their variety and versatility, but I'd sure like to know if > anyone's dug up some alternatives. I would really like to find some > illuminated rockers You might take a look at the switches listed here. Rocker style -- illuminated or not-- single or double pole-- and all the configurations Bob lists for the toggle style. Scroll down to 8553 series and 4 pole gets added to the mix with all the same configurations. http://aerospace.eaton.com/pdfs/power/rocker.pdf -- Bob McC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Switch Alternatives for Galls flashers
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Try looking at what Eaton has to offer http://www.commercialcontrols.eaton.com/VCBU/index.htm David Swartzendruber Wichita > > Hello agin A-list- > > I have been searching without luck for ANY alternative to bat-handle > toggle switches for my panel- let's face it, when was the last time you > plopped yer fanny down in a $60K sports car and saw bat-handles? The > combinations of these critters that Bob shows in the Connection are > testimony to their variety and versatility, but I'd sure like to know if > anyone's dug up some alternatives. I would really like to find some > illuminated rockers (or short handled toggles) with the single small LED > (or light) indicating the circuit is energized for stuff like exterior > lights, fuel pump, e-bus feed etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: fuse question
Date: Jan 16, 2003
The basic cause of a fuse blow where no problem can be found is often a fuse that is marginal in it's amp rating for the load... Every time the device turns on with an initial current surge the fuse heats a bit more than the designers intended, then rapidly cools after the initial surge... Over many cycles the metal link develops oxidation cracks and it's resistance rises a tad... This leads to even more heating with each current surge, until it finally just fails one day... Increase the fuse size by ~20% and it will probably never fail again... Denny - old industrial electrician ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fuse question > > > > >Bob, > >I have purchased and read your excelent book. > >I agree with your methods but have a question. > > > >You say that if something causes a fuse to blow, replacing the fuse in > >flight, or re-setting a breaker is not necessary because the problem still > >exists and will just blow/pop again. On more than one occasion, in autos that > >I have owned, I have had to replace a blown fuse that never blew again. Dont > >know what caused it to blow, nothing was repaired and nothing changed. For > >example, in a 95 ranger truck I had, the cruise control stoped working. I > >changed the fuse and it worked fine and never blew the fuse again. > > > >What can cause a fuse to blow when there is no apparent problem? > > Happens in airplanes too . . . In airplanes, the problem is most > likely an undersized fuse/breaker for the task. In a certified > ship, there's precious little the po' guy can do about it. To > fix a design flaw is a major undertaking in a certified aircraft. > In your OBAM aircraft, you re-evaluate your fuse/breaker/wire selection > decision and probably decided to upsize the circuit whereupon > the nuisance tripping problem stops. > > There may be intermittent events to consider but only lightly. > I had a Voyager that would occasionally pop a fuse when > engaging the cruise control. Same fuse powered a bunch > of panel instruments. It would do it only very occasionally > so I just carried extra fuses. After several years, the > stalk that mounted cruise controls cracked and required > replacement of the assembly. Fuse never popped again. > > Keep in mind that these anecdotal stories are not a basis > for modifying decisions for design and/or flight operations. > The public is taught to fear lots of things based upon poor > reasoning . . . and pilots are as vulnerable if not more so. > The ways that any system can become unusable by NOT popping > a fuse generally outnumber the ways that it fails and does > pop a fuse by a factor of 10:1 or more. > > Why would it be a good idea to gather up a fist full of > spare fuses and mount your fuse block for in-flight > accessibility when (1) majority failures are not likely > to open a fuse, (2) if it does open a fuse, likelihood > of getting system back by replacing fuse is small and > (3) while you're fiddling with systems failure analysis > and hoping for a remedy, you are NOT BEING A PILOT? > > EVERY mid air between airplanes involves up to 4 pilots > with their heads down. EVERY system in your airplane is > subject to failure either due to normal wear-out or > quality issues . . . if any system is highly prized for > its ability to assist in comfortable continuation of > flight, you'd better pack a stand-by replacement for > it either in your flight bag or mounted to the panel. > > If you've got backups for things you really need, > then the idea of in-flight fuse-fiddling becomes > a small, virtually insignificant consideration for > overall flight safety and comfort. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: basic wiring question
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Bob, I've been trying to figure out the best wire to wire up an LED crossfeed warning light. I wonder if you'd throw you're considerable expertise at such a simple problem. I have two fuel pumps, left and right, individually switched. I have a fuel return solenoid, also individually switched. When the solenoid is energized, the return fuel goes to the left tank. By default, return fuel goes to the right tank. Therefore, if I switch on the right pump fuel is pumped from the right tank and returned to the right tank. If I switch on the left pump and the solenoid, fuel is pumped from the left tank and returned to the left tank. Any other combination, including both pumps on, leads to a crossfeed condition. Obviously I could wire the solenoid to be powered automatically from the left pump switch, but I'd like to retain the crossfeed option. Could you suggest the best way to wire this? I'm currently using on-off-on switches. Regards, John Slade. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: fuse question
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Remember, fuses are primarily used to protect the wire not the device. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis O'Connor [mailto:doconnor(at)chartermi.net] Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fuse question The basic cause of a fuse blow where no problem can be found is often a fuse that is marginal in it's amp rating for the load... Every time the device turns on with an initial current surge the fuse heats a bit more than the designers intended, then rapidly cools after the initial surge... Over many cycles the metal link develops oxidation cracks and it's resistance rises a tad... This leads to even more heating with each current surge, until it finally just fails one day... Increase the fuse size by ~20% and it will probably never fail again... Denny - old industrial electrician ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fuse question > > > > >Bob, > >I have purchased and read your excelent book. > >I agree with your methods but have a question. > > > >You say that if something causes a fuse to blow, replacing the fuse in > >flight, or re-setting a breaker is not necessary because the problem still > >exists and will just blow/pop again. On more than one occasion, in autos that > >I have owned, I have had to replace a blown fuse that never blew again. Dont > >know what caused it to blow, nothing was repaired and nothing changed. For > >example, in a 95 ranger truck I had, the cruise control stoped working. I > >changed the fuse and it worked fine and never blew the fuse again. > > > >What can cause a fuse to blow when there is no apparent problem? > > Happens in airplanes too . . . In airplanes, the problem is most > likely an undersized fuse/breaker for the task. In a certified > ship, there's precious little the po' guy can do about it. To > fix a design flaw is a major undertaking in a certified aircraft. > In your OBAM aircraft, you re-evaluate your fuse/breaker/wire selection > decision and probably decided to upsize the circuit whereupon > the nuisance tripping problem stops. > > There may be intermittent events to consider but only lightly. > I had a Voyager that would occasionally pop a fuse when > engaging the cruise control. Same fuse powered a bunch > of panel instruments. It would do it only very occasionally > so I just carried extra fuses. After several years, the > stalk that mounted cruise controls cracked and required > replacement of the assembly. Fuse never popped again. > > Keep in mind that these anecdotal stories are not a basis > for modifying decisions for design and/or flight operations. > The public is taught to fear lots of things based upon poor > reasoning . . . and pilots are as vulnerable if not more so. > The ways that any system can become unusable by NOT popping > a fuse generally outnumber the ways that it fails and does > pop a fuse by a factor of 10:1 or more. > > Why would it be a good idea to gather up a fist full of > spare fuses and mount your fuse block for in-flight > accessibility when (1) majority failures are not likely > to open a fuse, (2) if it does open a fuse, likelihood > of getting system back by replacing fuse is small and > (3) while you're fiddling with systems failure analysis > and hoping for a remedy, you are NOT BEING A PILOT? > > EVERY mid air between airplanes involves up to 4 pilots > with their heads down. EVERY system in your airplane is > subject to failure either due to normal wear-out or > quality issues . . . if any system is highly prized for > its ability to assist in comfortable continuation of > flight, you'd better pack a stand-by replacement for > it either in your flight bag or mounted to the panel. > > If you've got backups for things you really need, > then the idea of in-flight fuse-fiddling becomes > a small, virtually insignificant consideration for > overall flight safety and comfort. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: wig-wag flashers
Date: Jan 16, 2003
<> Question: It looks like the flashers suggested turn the lamp completely off between on cycles. Doesn't this put quite a stress on the filament, shortening the life? I seem to recall that other commercial flashers have a "keep-warm" feature to avoid the inrush current. True? Gary Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Switch Alternatives for Galls flashers
> >Hello agin A-list- > >I have been searching without luck for ANY alternative to bat-handle >toggle switches for my panel- let's face it, when was the last time you >plopped yer fanny down in a $60K sports car and saw bat-handles? The >combinations of these critters that Bob shows in the Connection are >testimony to their variety and versatility, but I'd sure like to know if >anyone's dug up some alternatives. I would really like to find some >illuminated rockers (or short handled toggles) with the single small LED >(or light) indicating the circuit is energized for stuff like exterior >lights, fuel pump, e-bus feed etc. but so far have only come up with >some that are SPST i.e., OFF-ON, and precious little else. Have >searched the web, Digikey, Mouser, Jap-shack, Autozone etc. with no joy. >Mouser sells a slick little switch by Mountain Switch: The full range of switch functionality in rockers is available from Microswitch. Here's a link to the page for their TP series rockers: http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/ss.asp?FAM=tr&SORD=2148&FT_2148=22003 Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: basic wiring question
> >Bob, >I've been trying to figure out the best wire to wire up an LED crossfeed >warning light. I wonder if you'd throw you're considerable expertise at such >a simple problem. > >I have two fuel pumps, left and right, individually switched. >I have a fuel return solenoid, also individually switched. >When the solenoid is energized, the return fuel goes to the left tank. >By default, return fuel goes to the right tank. > >Therefore, if I switch on the right pump fuel is pumped from the right tank >and returned to the right tank. If I switch on the left pump and the >solenoid, fuel is pumped from the left tank and returned to the left tank. > >Any other combination, including both pumps on, leads to a crossfeed >condition. Obviously I could wire the solenoid to be powered automatically >from the left pump switch, but I'd like to retain the crossfeed option. > >Could you suggest the best way to wire this? I'm currently using on-off-on >switches. >Regards, >John Slade. As I tried to understand the description of your proposed system, I was reminded of the Smith's Aerostar and its reputation for unplanned arrivals with the earth due engine stoppage with lots of fuel aboard. That airplane had a very complex fuel system that was easy to use the wrong way. Have you worked through a operational instruction set for your fuel system? What potential problems generate a need for more hardware to work around perceived problems? A few months ago, I published a drawing depicting a no-valves fuel delivery system at http://216.55.140.222/temp/NoValve.gif This system features a 4-port primer system with calibrated flow to become an alterative fuel delivery system should the primary route become disabled for any reason. Three pumps, three switches and no valves. This kind of system could be gussied up with some automatic controls for transferring fuel from left to right tank for normal ops but even with manual operations, this architecture offers a lot of reliability with very simple controls and an opportunity to have zero fuel plumbing fittings in the cockpit. I'm not suggesting that the drawing cited fits your needs but I offer it as an illustration of a system where each component's mission is well defined and the component total has been minimized. Simple is better both from the standpoint of reliability and operability. Bob . . . |-------------------------------------------------------| | The man who does not read good books has no advantage | | over the man who cannot read them. | | - Mark Twain | |-------------------------------------------------------| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engine sensors and how to mount
> I have two other question, they (Insight) say: > > ......engine harnesses (probes) should be positioned away from sources of > high energy, such as ignition harnesses,..... > > The wires of the probes itself are surounded with a metall shielding. Do I > have a problem, if I bundle this wires partly together with the ignition > harness (same clamp to the rocker box screws)?? > > The probes I have came with a set out of a crimp pin and and a socket. > Insight seams to have standard wires without any shield and is using ring > terminals with screws to make a connection point on the way from the > instrument to the connector. > > My question is now, should I really cut the wires (breaking the shielding) > with one of the methodes above. Or do I have a better setup, if I leave them > intact from the probe to the instrument 30 pin connector? > > If you want, I can send you the installation instruction as PDF. > > Many thanks for helping us so much with your deep knowledge! > > Kind regards > > Werner This is always a tough one to answer. I've been putting instrumentation systems in airplanes for years where the routing of wires was not an option . . . you run wires where the original designers made places to run wires. I can't recall any case where a system suffered interference problems by adjacent wires. It's stone simple to design instrumentation circuits that are quite immune to external noise sources. When someone cites all the caveats and cautions from an installation manual for some electro-whizzy, I have to wonder if the worries are based on real concerns. If real, the engineers who designed the installation should be flogged with their own soldering iron cords. Or are they the concerns of their legal department. I bought a cordless screwdriver last week . . . it came with a 20 page manual divided into four sections for each of four languages. Three pages of each section was filled with goodies like, "Do not use this device while bathing", and "Do not use this device while standing in water", etc. It was a 2.5 volt device that represented no electrical hazard in ANY situation. Nevertheless, suppliers of the product felt compelled to adequately warn me . . . So, without knowing a lot more about how the front end of your system is designed, I can offer no further insight as to the validity or importance of following instructions to the letter. As a general rule, if a wire is called out as shielded, I use a separate pin to bring the shield through any connector. If it were my airplane, I'd do the installation by routing wires in the best manner consistent with craftsmanship and then see how the system plays. Odds are in your favor that it's going to work just fine. If it doesn't you will have deduced a valuable data point with respect to the quality of that product's engineering. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: dfuss(at)eaze.net
Subject: LED's
For those considering LED's for nav lights, check out Sunbriteleds.com General Lighting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: basic wiring question
Date: Jan 16, 2003
> a very complex fuel system that was easy to use the wrong way. I don't see this as complex. There are only three components and three switches. > What potential problems generate a need for more hardware to work around > perceived problems? Moving fuel from one tank to the other without realizing it. > delivery system at http://216.55.140.222/temp/NoValve.gif I saw it. It's nice, if you have a carb, primers, and no returns to worry about. If there's a simpler way to handle an EFI system I'd like to know about it. > I'm not suggesting that the drawing cited fits your needs > but I offer it as an illustration of a system where each > component's mission is well defined and the component total > has been minimized. I hope I'm not defending what I've implemented just because I've implemented it, but....I wanted redundant fuel systems. Given what I've got, the only other way I know to get fuel transfer would be to add additional pump/s. I can achieve the same purpose by flipping the return on and off. All I need is a warning light to remind me that I'm doing that. Thanks for you're input. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Subject: PDX WX
Group... Reporting from Portland re WX.... It is gorgeous here today. Almost CAVU!! :-) Jerry Cochran In a message dated 1/15/03 11:58:38 PM, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: << I spoke with Kirk on another matter just after they finished installing the system in the airplane. Kirk told me about weather problems and said the BMA crew retired to Portland to wait it out. I've not spoken with him since. This is good news indeed! I'll call Kirk tomorrow and see if he has any nitty-gritty details to share. Bob . . . >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: wig-wag flashers, keep warm circuit?
> ><of solid state flashers that will do the job. Whatever >flasher you use, you can wire it up as shown here:>> > >Question: It looks like the flashers suggested turn the lamp completely off >between on cycles. Doesn't this put quite a stress on the filament, >shortening the life? I seem to recall that other commercial flashers have a >"keep-warm" feature to avoid the inrush current. True? > >Gary Casey I wondered about this and went to the workbench to make some measurements. I put the 'scope on a lamp/flasher combo to look at filament inrush during the wigwag mode. As it turns out, the cool-down time for the relatively heavy filaments of a lamp suited for landing or taxi is long. The killer inrush current happens only when you first turn the lamp on for a truly COLD start. After the first event, the filaments stayed warm enough that the inrush on each cycle was barely 10% higher than running current . . . a trivial concern. That doesn't mean that a keepwarm circuit might not lengthen lamp life under cold-vibration as discussed in the 'Connection's chapter on lighting. Frankly, given the wealth of low cost, halogen, high output lamps suited to this service, I'm not sure I'd even bother to put a keepwarm system on my own airplane's lights. Automotive head lamps demonstrate very long life with no special needs to pamper 'em. Keepwarm is easy to add later. Try your system without it. If you're unhappy with lamp life, try adding the keepwarm to see if it helps. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Subject: Antenna Location Question
Bob and others, I would like to locate my comm antenna (KX-125) and transponder antenna (GTX-320A) at the opposite rear corners of the floor in my RV-6 just ahead of the wing spar. I understand from the RV-List that this has been done successfully, but my concern is that the installation manuals for both the above units state that the antenna should be a minimum of three feet from the unit. The actual distance measured from the front panels of the units in my preferred locations would be closer to two to two and a half feet. So my question is, can anyone cite actual experience with an installation like this or at least give me an educated opinion as to whether I will encounter any problem(s) if I proceed as planned. Thanks as always for any advice. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, starting firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com>
Subject: Re: Switch Alternatives for Galls flashers
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Try these also Ron Raby N829R http://www.carlingtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switch Alternatives for Galls flashers > > > > >Hello agin A-list- > > > >I have been searching without luck for ANY alternative to bat-handle > >toggle switches for my panel- let's face it, when was the last time you > >plopped yer fanny down in a $60K sports car and saw bat-handles? The > >combinations of these critters that Bob shows in the Connection are > >testimony to their variety and versatility, but I'd sure like to know if > >anyone's dug up some alternatives. I would really like to find some > >illuminated rockers (or short handled toggles) with the single small LED > >(or light) indicating the circuit is energized for stuff like exterior > >lights, fuel pump, e-bus feed etc. but so far have only come up with > >some that are SPST i.e., OFF-ON, and precious little else. Have > >searched the web, Digikey, Mouser, Jap-shack, Autozone etc. with no joy. > >Mouser sells a slick little switch by Mountain Switch: > > > The full range of switch functionality in rockers is available from > Microswitch. Here's a link to the page for their TP series > rockers: > > http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/ss.asp?FAM=tr&SORD=2148&FT_2148=22003 > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2003
From: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Location Question
Harry, I installed a bent whip COMM antenna in the center of the floor just forward of the spar and the transponder antenna in the left hand corner just forward of the spar. This was on my RV-6. I never had a complaint from ATC about either in over 200 hours of flying. Randy F1 Rocket http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/ ----- Original Message ----- From: HCRV6(at)aol.com Date: Thursday, January 16, 2003 1:33 pm Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Location Question > > Bob and others, I would like to locate my comm antenna (KX-125) > and > transponder antenna (GTX-320A) at the opposite rear corners of the > floor in > my RV-6 just ahead of the wing spar. I understand from the RV- > List that this > has been done successfully, but my concern is that the > installation manuals > for both the above units state that the antenna should be a > minimum of three > feet from the unit. The actual distance measured from the front > panels of > the units in my preferred locations would be closer to two to two > and a half > feet. So my question is, can anyone cite actual experience with > an > installation like this or at least give me an educated opinion as > to whether > I will encounter any problem(s) if I proceed as planned. Thanks > as always > for any advice. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, starting firewall forward > > > _- > ======================================================================_- = - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > _- > ======================================================================_- = !! NEWish !! > _- > ======================================================================_- = List Related Information > _- > ====================================================================== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynwood Stagg" <woody6(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wiring issues at the wing root
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Bob and list: Hello. I have been lurking and reading Bob's book and trying to soak all this great information up. I am building and RV7A, and have some questions re: wing root wiring, connectors, etc., and would like the feedback of the group. I plan on mounting wings a few times, and will likely fly before painting, so straight wire runs I don't think are a good option for me. For pitot heat, pos. lights, and landing lights, I plan on using the knife splices from AMP. I am putting an Archer Wintip Nav antenna in with RG400 cable. Planned to use a BNC at or near the wing root. Any issues about this that I should be aware of? Whelen wingtip strobes - I thought a mate-n-lok (like what is on the ends) at the wing root would be acceptable. Had questions as to the shielding and radio noise. Can I just put the shield to a pin in the connector at the root? Is there a shielded connector that I should be using here? AP wing servo - My understanding is several 20g and 22g (12 or so?) wires for the Tru-trak. Servo hasn't gotten here yet. Probably a multi-pin type connector at the root, rather than knife splices. I would welcome any feedback, positive or negative. I am very new at this. Thanks, Woody Stagg RV-7A Future Z-14 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net>
Subject: Where should I put the ammeter?
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Bob, I'm using a variation of Figure Z-11, without a starter. Where would be best place to put the internal shunt ammeter? Since there are two feeds off the battery, I'm a little confused. Quickie Q-200 with the battery in the tail. Any suggestions? Thanks! Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net>
Subject: Grounds
Date: Jan 16, 2003
Bob, I am doing some rewiring of my Q-200 and would like to install better ground paths and connections. I would like to use your firewall ground kit set-up but it is really hard to access the aft side of the firewall. (It was a lot easier 20 years ago when I originally built the plane). What do you think about locating one groundblock on the firewall, then a connecting cable to a ground near the panel? Here's a link to some photos of my buggy. http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/n202shdetail.html Thanks. Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net>
Subject: Grounds
Date: Jan 17, 2003
Hi Sam, You know that wiring changes won't contribute to speed, don't you?? :-) We have very different systems in our Q's but if it helps: I installed my ground block and main bus fuse panel on the aft wall of my header tank (behind the instrument panel for those that don't know Q's). I have a large ground cable (#4) that runs from the battery (tail) to the engine case then a smaller wire (#10, if memory serves) that runs back to the panel (from the engine case ground). This really isn't applicable to you (I have an electrically dependent engine (Subaru EJ-22)): I installed my e-bus next to the battery box in the tail and from it run my EFI, aux header pump, and aux EFI pump. Jon Finley N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine Apple Valley, Minnesota http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Sam Hoskins > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:51 PM > To: Aerolectric List > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounds > > > --> > > Bob, I am doing some rewiring of my Q-200 and would like to > install better ground paths and connections. I would like to > use your firewall ground kit set-up but it is really hard to > access the aft side of the firewall. (It was a lot easier 20 > years ago when I originally built the plane). > > What do you think about locating one groundblock on the > firewall, then a connecting cable to a ground near the panel? > Here's a link to some photos of my buggy. > http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/n202shdeta> il.html > > Thanks. > > Sam > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2003
From: Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring issues at the wing root
Woody, You can check out my wing wiring at: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/ Go to the Wings section under F1 Rocket Project. I bought some 12 pin Mate-N-Loc connectors from Digikey and mounted them in the root rib of the wing. Randy #95 F1 Rocket ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynwood Stagg <woody6(at)yahoo.com> Date: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:18 pm Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring issues at the wing root > > Bob and list: > > Hello. I have been lurking and reading Bob's book and trying to > soak all this great information up. > > I am building and RV7A, and have some questions re: wing root > wiring, connectors, etc., and would like the feedback of the group. > > I plan on mounting wings a few times, and will likely fly before > painting, so straight wire runs I don't think are a good option > for me. > > For pitot heat, pos. lights, and landing lights, I plan on using > the knife splices from AMP. > > I am putting an Archer Wintip Nav antenna in with RG400 cable. > Planned to use a BNC at or near the wing root. Any issues about > this that I should be aware of? > > Whelen wingtip strobes - I thought a mate-n-lok (like what is on > the ends) at the wing root would be acceptable. Had questions as > to the shielding and radio noise. Can I just put the shield to a > pin in the connector at the root? Is there a shielded connector > that I should be using here? > > AP wing servo - My understanding is several 20g and 22g (12 or > so?) wires for the Tru-trak. Servo hasn't gotten here yet. > Probably a multi-pin type connector at the root, rather than knife > splices. > I would welcome any feedback, positive or negative. I am very new > at this. > > Thanks, > Woody Stagg > RV-7A > Future Z-14 > > > _- > ======================================================================_- = - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum - > _- > ======================================================================_- = !! NEWish !! > _- > ======================================================================_- = List Related Information > _- > ====================================================================== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Where should I put the ammeter?
> > >Bob, I'm using a variation of Figure Z-11, without a starter. Where would >be best place to put the internal shunt ammeter? Since there are two >feeds off the battery, I'm a little confused. > >Quickie Q-200 with the battery in the tail. > >Any suggestions? > >Thanks! > >Sam I presume you're talking about a minus-zero-plus type ammeter designed to read battery discharge-charge levels like automobiles of old and Cessnas of late. If you want to use this instrument, you have to bring fat, high current wires to the panel . . . an interference issue we try to avoid. You also have to wire the bus-to-battery feed so that it carries both discharge current from battery to bus and charge current from alternator to battery. This requires that you connect the alternator b-lead to the bus inside the cockpit . . . another fat wire unnecessarily brought inside to accommodate an instrument. If you'd like to use this instrument, you need to pitch Z-11 and get out the wiring diagram for a C-172. Otherwise, I'd recommend replacing it with a remotely shunted, alternator loadmeter style instrument. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: dimmer switches
Date: Jan 17, 2003
Ron, I've called and asked for a sample for "Business" evaluation purposes.. Their technology is similar to a dimmer circuit I had installed in my last RV that worked out very well.. I'll let you and the list know how they work after I get one and test it on the panel I'm working on now... It might be interesting to see how a digital output works on the LED's I have in the panel......AND what kind of RFI suppression they have in their design so that there's no radio interference..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A > Came across these dimmer switches. They look good. Ron Raby N829R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Benford2(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 17, 2003
Subject: One wire alternater
Bob, I am using a Ford engine and I would like to use a one wire alt, internally shunted-60-0-+60 ammeter. I have always liked those because it shows whether the charging systems are keeping up or not. Please feed me the pros and cons of this setup. Thanks. N801BH. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynwood Stagg" <woody6(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring issues at the wing root
Date: Jan 17, 2003
Thanks Randy. I had not run across your site yet. Very helpful. With the Whelen install kit for strobes, the 3 conductor cable has a shield for attach at the power supply end. Did you just run this through the wing root connector too? I wasn't sure how this would impact the shielding re:noise. Thanks, Woody ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Pflanzer" <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring issues at the wing root > > Woody, > > You can check out my wing wiring at: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/ > > Go to the Wings section under F1 Rocket Project. > > I bought some 12 pin Mate-N-Loc connectors from Digikey and mounted > them in the root rib of the wing. > >>>snip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna Location Question
> >Bob and others, I would like to locate my comm antenna (KX-125) and >transponder antenna (GTX-320A) at the opposite rear corners of the floor in >my RV-6 just ahead of the wing spar. I understand from the RV-List that this >has been done successfully, but my concern is that the installation manuals >for both the above units state that the antenna should be a minimum of three >feet from the unit. The actual distance measured from the front panels of >the units in my preferred locations would be closer to two to two and a half >feet. So my question is, can anyone cite actual experience with an >installation like this or at least give me an educated opinion as to whether >I will encounter any problem(s) if I proceed as planned. Thanks as always >for any advice. You can generally install antennas any handy place on the airplane and get satisfactory performance. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2003
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: One wire alternater
> >Bob, I am using a Ford engine and I would like to use a one wire alt, >internally shunted-60-0-+60 ammeter. I have always liked those because it >shows whether the charging systems are keeping up or not. Please feed me the >pros and cons of this setup. Thanks. N801BH. This ammeter cannot be used in a low noise, simple architectures as described in Appendix Z of the 'Connection. There are better ways to "show whether the charging systems are keeping up or not." Before you carve this decision into stone, I'll suggest you review the 'Connection for the concepts that support these "non-standard" approaches to wiring an airplane . . . especially the chapters on noise and reliability. The zero-center-ammeter just doesn't fit any of these architectures . . . which isn't a bad deal because it's really EASY to know if your charging system is keeping up or not. Just install a low volts warning light as described http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html and http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf

January 07, 2003 - January 17, 2003

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bn