AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bp
January 28, 2003 - February 12, 2003
| From: | "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com> |
I'll have Scotch, please. And get your elbows off my table.
:-)
David
-----Original Message-----
| From: | DHPHKH(at)aol.com [mailto:DHPHKH(at)aol.com] |
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: be nice, please
Gang,
As I understand it, most of the great minds of the 20th century really
enjoyed sitting around a kitchen table, arguing the fine points of their
specialties with their peers. I'm sure sure everyone gained in the process.
I'm equally sure the debate got heated at times, with "prove it" being the
classic challenge.
SIG e-mail lists are the world's largest kitchen tables. Enjoy and
learn. Anybody need another beer?
Dan Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring switches |
Robert
In our buisness we call that skywiring and we try to avoid it if possible.
although I do not see a problem with what you are doing.
Here are my suggestions:
You may want to make the switch wires longer and ty them to the panel
somehow or even tywrap them to the switch and loop them back to make the
connection. Try to make the branches off the main trunk for two or more
switches each. If you had to reach up behind the panel this would give you a
little more room to get your hand by. another way I seen is to put a peice
of heat shrink on the 6" branch for neatness. This looks better than using
small tywraps or lacing cord.
Ron Raby
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
>
> ><robert@thenews-journal.com>
> >
> >I'm wiring the toggle switches for my RV-6A and have a question about
> >whether I'm doing so "acceptably." I'm using switches from B&C with
fast-on
> >connections, and have a row of 14 switches along the bottom left of my
> >panel.
> >I've secured the main bundle of wires running to these switches with adel
> >clamps along the bottom of the bulkhead behind the panel. This makes the
> >distance from where the wires leave the bundle to the switch connections
at
> >about 6", maybe a little less.
> >I'm planning on tying the wires in smaller bundles between the clamps and
> >the switches, but what I really want to know is whether it's ok to have
this
> >kind of setup behind my switches.
> >I could, with some considerable effort, re-route the main bundle closer
to
> >the rear of the panel, but it would mean somehow actually clamping that
> >bundle to the panel itself. For removability reasons I'd much prefer not
to
> >do this.
> >It seems like I'm always thinking about something like this after I've
> >started do it another way. The way I've got the switches wired now really
> >looks fine to me just the way they are, but I thought I ought to ask.
Just
> >another reason (besides having to learn *everything*) I'm so darned slow
at
> >building this thing.
>
> What you are proposing sounds fine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Electric fuel valves |
>
>Mark et al,
>
>Thanks for the note.
>
>As co-owner or N812SP and primary designer of the electric fuel valve
>installation, let me share some facts about our experience with the valves
>... so far.
Was 812SP also known as "Ten Forward?"
Richard Riley
N1701V
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric fuel valves |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, FYI, if anyone else is interested in contacting Bernie Hayes about the electric
fuel valves in his Long-EZ, please write him at ebhayes(at)rockwellcollins.com.
I work with him and forwarded his comments to the List yesterday, but he
is not on the List and if you reply to yesterday's message you'll be sending
the e-mail to me, not him.
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil (czechsix(at)juno.com)
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wiring switches |
thanks, Ron, that's a great reply and pretty much what I was looking for. Is
it better to run the bundle just behind the switches leaving it supported
only by the switches, but with very short runs to the connectors? I've
checked several web sites since I posted my query and have seen what look to
be bundles right behind the row of switches with perhaps the only support at
the start of the run behind the row. Does this make any sense?
I could probably make this modification if it is a clearly more acceptable
(read more durable) way to do it.
I really appreciate your input.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
----------
>From: "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
>Date: Tue, Jan 28, 2003, 1:10 PM
>
>
>
> Robert
>
> In our buisness we call that skywiring and we try to avoid it if possible.
> although I do not see a problem with what you are doing.
> Here are my suggestions:
> You may want to make the switch wires longer and ty them to the panel
> somehow or even tywrap them to the switch and loop them back to make the
> connection. Try to make the branches off the main trunk for two or more
> switches each. If you had to reach up behind the panel this would give you a
> little more room to get your hand by. another way I seen is to put a peice
> of heat shrink on the 6" branch for neatness. This looks better than using
> small tywraps or lacing cord.
>
> Ron Raby
>
> N829R
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
>
>
>
>>
>> ><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>> >
>> >I'm wiring the toggle switches for my RV-6A and have a question about
>> >whether I'm doing so "acceptably." I'm using switches from B&C with
> fast-on
>> >connections, and have a row of 14 switches along the bottom left of my
>> >panel.
>> >I've secured the main bundle of wires running to these switches with adel
>> >clamps along the bottom of the bulkhead behind the panel. This makes the
>> >distance from where the wires leave the bundle to the switch connections
> at
>> >about 6", maybe a little less.
>> >I'm planning on tying the wires in smaller bundles between the clamps and
>> >the switches, but what I really want to know is whether it's ok to have
> this
>> >kind of setup behind my switches.
>> >I could, with some considerable effort, re-route the main bundle closer
> to
>> >the rear of the panel, but it would mean somehow actually clamping that
>> >bundle to the panel itself. For removability reasons I'd much prefer not
> to
>> >do this.
>> >It seems like I'm always thinking about something like this after I've
>> >started do it another way. The way I've got the switches wired now really
>> >looks fine to me just the way they are, but I thought I ought to ask.
> Just
>> >another reason (besides having to learn *everything*) I'm so darned slow
> at
>> >building this thing.
>>
>> What you are proposing sounds fine.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: be nice, please |
> SIG e-mail lists are the world's largest kitchen tables. Enjoy and
> learn. Anybody need another beer?
I'll drink to that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring switches |
Robert
This is what I would do.
If you could come on to the switch panel from one side and run the wires
either over the top or underneath the switches that would be good. If the
switch panel can be removed try and make it so that you can pull this panel
off to work on it with out taking the wires off. I would try not to use the
switches for support of the wiring bundle if possible. Use Adel clamps,
wallmounts etc. Try this catalog they have all kinds of mounts you can use.
Branch the wires out at each switch aprox 4" long and put on your lugs. Make
sure that this service loop will allow you to change these lugs a couple of
times if needed. Make all the branched wires the same length for looks.
http://onlinecatalog.panduit.com/Panduit/Templates/Panduit/browse.asp?newrec
ordset=yes&classlevel=316
Ron Raby
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
<robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> thanks, Ron, that's a great reply and pretty much what I was looking for.
Is
> it better to run the bundle just behind the switches leaving it supported
> only by the switches, but with very short runs to the connectors? I've
> checked several web sites since I posted my query and have seen what look
to
> be bundles right behind the row of switches with perhaps the only support
at
> the start of the run behind the row. Does this make any sense?
> I could probably make this modification if it is a clearly more acceptable
> (read more durable) way to do it.
> I really appreciate your input.
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
> ----------
> >From: "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
> >Date: Tue, Jan 28, 2003, 1:10 PM
> >
>
> >
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > In our buisness we call that skywiring and we try to avoid it if
possible.
> > although I do not see a problem with what you are doing.
> > Here are my suggestions:
> > You may want to make the switch wires longer and ty them to the panel
> > somehow or even tywrap them to the switch and loop them back to make the
> > connection. Try to make the branches off the main trunk for two or more
> > switches each. If you had to reach up behind the panel this would give
you a
> > little more room to get your hand by. another way I seen is to put a
peice
> > of heat shrink on the 6" branch for neatness. This looks better than
using
> > small tywraps or lacing cord.
> >
> > Ron Raby
> >
> > N829R
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring switches
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> ><robert@thenews-journal.com>
> >> >
> >> >I'm wiring the toggle switches for my RV-6A and have a question about
> >> >whether I'm doing so "acceptably." I'm using switches from B&C with
> > fast-on
> >> >connections, and have a row of 14 switches along the bottom left of my
> >> >panel.
> >> >I've secured the main bundle of wires running to these switches with
adel
> >> >clamps along the bottom of the bulkhead behind the panel. This makes
the
> >> >distance from where the wires leave the bundle to the switch
connections
> > at
> >> >about 6", maybe a little less.
> >> >I'm planning on tying the wires in smaller bundles between the clamps
and
> >> >the switches, but what I really want to know is whether it's ok to
have
> > this
> >> >kind of setup behind my switches.
> >> >I could, with some considerable effort, re-route the main bundle
closer
> > to
> >> >the rear of the panel, but it would mean somehow actually clamping
that
> >> >bundle to the panel itself. For removability reasons I'd much prefer
not
> > to
> >> >do this.
> >> >It seems like I'm always thinking about something like this after I've
> >> >started do it another way. The way I've got the switches wired now
really
> >> >looks fine to me just the way they are, but I thought I ought to ask.
> > Just
> >> >another reason (besides having to learn *everything*) I'm so darned
slow
> > at
> >> >building this thing.
> >>
> >> What you are proposing sounds fine.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Howto d-sub machined pins |
That what I did on my AP wiring and it worked out nice. I put 1/4"
flex-sleeve on the entire bundle. It made a 10', 7-wire bundle very
manageable and clean looking. Without it it was chaos.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>
> Heat shrink will increase the diameter of the assembly to
> an extent that will prevent the pin from being inserted
> into the connector. Heat shrink is not necessary on
> crimped connectors. If you're concerned about mechanical
> support, you can put a back shell on the connector.
> However, a string tie or tye-wrap on the wire bundle
> within an inch or so of the connector body stiffens up
> the wire bundle to provide adequate support.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/03 |
Hey guys, let these things sit on your computers a minute before you click
SEND and I'll bet most of them don't get sent at all.
"Old Bob" asked if folks wanted his repeated discussion on the T&B vs. TC
debate.
Folks said yes, so he re-posted it.
Not a problem for anyone, IMHO.
As for the "Go ahead, make my day" line from the OTHER Bob, if you think
it's arrogant, you obviously don't get it at all.
Bob (Nuckolls) enjoys nothing more than having someone show him if/when he's
wrong, and that's why he says that. It really does make his day.
It's not arrogance, though he would have the right to be so. I've never met
anyone who knows so much about a subject who is so willing to explain and
support his opinions, and identify them as such, WITHOUT being arrogant.
And he does it all for free. I, for one, greatly appreciate what he, and
others here, post for us all to wade through.
As for the "off topic" posts, that's not nearly as annoying to me as the
endless complaining about the occasional "off topic" posts. And the
endless, indiscriminate "quoting" of messages one is responding to. (One
list a week or so ago was over 75% "quoted" material.) I dug through it and
deleted the "chaff".
If something on this list bugs you, just delete it. Just like this message.
And you can have back the money you paid for mine...
And yes, lighten up, "all y'all"... There's far too much good info here
(among the other) to chase so many knowledgeable folks away.
Ron
From: "Rick D." <rsdec1(at)msn.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: be nice, please
What the heck, we are now getting health and academic reports from all
over, why not some discussion about something that is at least an electrical
component in an airplane. God, we have had all kinds of topics here. At one
point some non-aircraft related software topics dominated days of the list.
Arrogance? GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY, SHOW ME WHERE I"M WRONG! Wow, is that
genuine arrogance or what? I could point out hundreds of mistakes made here
on this site and related literature but I don't feel as though I need to rub
anyone's nose in it. Mistakes are made by EVERYONE. This list is frequented
by some of the most arrogant, pompous, know-it-all individuals that I have
ever had the displeasure of reading. It seems as though someone is always
looking for an argument and/or a fight at this list. Simple suggestions or
opinions are met with arrogant, discourteous responses because they have not
been supported and backed up by scienticific fact. Opinions offered by some
individuals here are offered as gospel and to disagree with them or to offer
alternatives only opens one up to more arrogant responses. One only needs to
go back and read some of the past posts to verify this.
Fortunatly, there are still some intelligent, courteous, non-arrogant
and genuine opinions that people such as "Old Bob" can contribute.
And, N919RV, just who DO you think is responsible for the mentioned
pilot differences noted by "Old Bob"? Never mind I don't want your OPINION
unless you can back it up with hard data. I don't think Denny was arrogant
or rude at all, he simply asks a question. He did not state his opinion that
it was "old Bob's" fault. You interpreted Denny's question for him. If Denny
wanted to say he thought it was Bob's fault, he probably would have said
just that.
How about some discussion about some of the solid state gyro's from people
like the Icarus/IPAQ. Will these replace the dreaded T/C and AI?
Lighten up yourself N919RV,
see ya later, ha, ha, ha,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Wig-Wag switching |
I have been looking at Bobs schmatics for Wig-Wag and I was wondering if it is
feasable on the third
layout to split the 4LT1-10 switch into tow 2-10 switches, one for taxi and one
for landing lights.
The idea is to be able to have both lights on, just the taxi light, wig-wag or
off with only two
switches. I prefer not to use three switches as on the first layout to save panel
room.
As I see it only when BOTH switches are at the center will wig-wag work. If the
taxi switch is up
then it will be on, no matter what position the landing lt switch is at and visa-versa.
I came to
this conclusion based on Note #1 that states both 2 & 3 pins of the SSF-1 flasher
must be loaded to
a lamp in order for it to actually flash.
The only reason I am looking at seperating the taxi and landing light is that I
have a tail dragging
RV-6 that I am assuming I will have to adjust the taxi light different then the
landing light. The
second assumption I am making is that I will need to turn off the landing light
on the ground since
it will be pointing up and may blind other pilots. Are these valid assumptions?
Any comments would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
Has anyone set up a single switch to turn on both the position lights and the instrument
lights
(still two circuits)? I am thinking of doing this with a 2-2 switch but I would
like to hear of any
down side to doing it, such as a need to shut off the instrument lights when the
position lights are
on. I will state that I plan on utilizing an AEC dimmer on the instrument light
circuit. This is
another attempt to simplify the instrument panel and to save space.
While we are on the subject, I am assuming that the AEC dimmer does not have an
off function.
Thank You
Frank Smidler
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
As has been discussed on the list before, for completion of flight, the
position lights aren't all that important. Conversely, I think it would
somewhat more inconvenient to do a night flight without your panel
lights. If you lose your main source of power (alternator) I think you
will want to turn off everything not necessary for continued flight. That
would include your position lights.
Maybe you could have a single switch, and have the panel lights and
position lights being fed from two different busses. The bus that feeds
your position lights (main?) could also feed other non-essential (non-
endurance) consumers.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> Has anyone set up a single switch to turn on both the position lights
> and the instrument lights (still two circuits)? I am thinking of doing
> this with a 2-2 switch but I would like to hear of any down side to
> doing it, such as a need to shut off the instrument lights when the
> position lights are on. I will state that I plan on utilizing an AEC
> dimmer on the instrument light circuit. This is another attempt to
> simplify the instrument panel and to save space.
>
> While we are on the subject, I am assuming that the AEC dimmer does not
> have an off function.
>
> Thank You
>
> Frank Smidler
> RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gooseneck lamp |
I installed mine between the landing gear weldment and the longeron attached
to the sidewall. I manufactured a plate that sits on top of these two
items. This plate has the gooseneck adapteer and dimmer attached to it.
Very convienent.
Ross Mickey
RV6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Dickson" <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gooseneck lamp
<robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I've bought one of Bob's gooseneck lights for my RV-6A, with the intention
> of mounting it on the forward canopy rail, just forward of the roll bar
> base. For you folks that have installed (or are considering installing)
one
> of these lights, does this sound like a reasonable place to put it? I've
> also thought about mounting it on the forward end of the pilot's armrest.
My
> thought is to put it someplace where it can illuminate either the panel
(in
> an E bus-only situation) or a chart in my lap. Other/better ideas?
>
> thanks,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net> |
Bob,
Back to the overvoltage disconnect for my late model GM alternator (they call it
a generator as it puts out DC) and is internally regulated. To recap, you advised
that wiring the crowbar overvoltage device in the field circuit may or may
not actually take the alternator off- line, correct? Your recommended addition
of an extra circuit with a heavy duty contactor (105 amp) to disconnect the
alternator output will complicate the installation but is doable. Currently
I have the output going direct to the starter contactor via a fuse as per your
recommendation.
I suppose my question is what are the chances that (1) an overcharge condition
will occur to begin with; and (2) if it does happen what are the chances that
the elimination of the field voltage will not solve the problem.
I suppose an alternative is to modify the alternator for use of an external voltage
regulator.... how hard and/or expensive is this? Changing the alternator
is not an option.
Any comments or advice is welcome, thanks.
Mark Means
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair Piggyback module |
I also have this combination, with a whole bunch of radio noise to boot.
Any time I throw a switch I get input in the headphones (engine off.)
I've spent these cold winter weeks reading and re-reading Bob's book on
the subject. Unfortunately it's too cold to stand in the hangar and
experiment. One question comes to mind though. Flightcom manual
calls for headphone grounds to return to the unit, which is itself
grounded. I ran the headphone grounds directly to the firewall-mounted
B & C groundblock. Any chance that's the culprit? Headphone and
microphone jacks are mounted in a piece of angle aluminum which is
mounted to my steel fuselage cage with rubber-cushioned Adel clamps.
Jacks themselves are mounted with the plastic and insulated washers
prescribed by Flightcom. No shielded wire was used except between the
radio and intercom.
I've been scratching my head about this for quite a while. Warm
weather can't come soon enough. Thanks very much.
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag switching |
>
>I have been looking at Bobs schmatics for Wig-Wag and I was wondering if
>it is feasable on the third
>layout to split the 4LT1-10 switch into tow 2-10 switches, one for taxi
>and one for landing lights.
>The idea is to be able to have both lights on, just the taxi light,
>wig-wag or off with only two
>switches. I prefer not to use three switches as on the first layout to
>save panel room.
>
>As I see it only when BOTH switches are at the center will wig-wag
>work. If the taxi switch is up
>then it will be on, no matter what position the landing lt switch is at
>and visa-versa. I came to
>this conclusion based on Note #1 that states both 2 & 3 pins of the SSF-1
>flasher must be loaded to
>a lamp in order for it to actually flash.
>
>The only reason I am looking at seperating the taxi and landing light is
>that I have a tail dragging
>RV-6 that I am assuming I will have to adjust the taxi light different
>then the landing light. The
>second assumption I am making is that I will need to turn off the landing
>light on the ground since
>it will be pointing up and may blind other pilots. Are these valid
>assumptions?
You betcha. What you propose will work. I've added the option
to the collection of drawings at:
http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
>
>Has anyone set up a single switch to turn on both the position lights and
>the instrument lights
>(still two circuits)? I am thinking of doing this with a 2-2 switch but I
>would like to hear of any
>down side to doing it, such as a need to shut off the instrument lights
>when the position lights are
>on. I will state that I plan on utilizing an AEC dimmer on the instrument
>light circuit. This is
>another attempt to simplify the instrument panel and to save space.
Builders have used the 2-10 switch to control strobes and
position lights. Down is OFF, mid position is STROBE, up
is strobe + position lights.
>While we are on the subject, I am assuming that the AEC dimmer does not
>have an off function.
Correct. The dimmer is designed to have the max counter-clockwise
position of the dimmer pot to bias the lamps up at a voltage just
below usable output (about 4v). This means that as you rotate
the control, you get immediate perceived response from the action.
Dimmers that go to zero volts "waste" the first few degrees of
control rotation doing nothing but bringing the lamps up from
zero to first visible light.
There is no practical reason to include additional switching
to turn the lamps OFF . . . lamp life in the keep-warm mode
is about 10x the life of your airplane. See chapter on lighting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair Piggyback module |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
When you say headphone, are you referring to both jacks (to include the
mic)? Or, this another way of asking whether you grounded the mic back to
the radio, or to the firewall? If you grounded the mic to the firewall, I
could
see this being the problem. I would be a little surprised if the noise is
coming
directly from a faulty ground for the headphone (the big plug) but not the
mic.
From my limited experience, it seems like you are likely to pick up noise on
the input to a buffered or amplified circuit. The mic side qualifies, but
the
headphone side does not. That's why I can see using sheilded wire on the
mics, but not on the headphone. On the headphone side, the electronics are
already done amplifying the signal, and noise will probably be of the low
voltage/
current variety.
All bets are off if the headphone amplifier doesn't use a common ground,
ie, the
negative headphone output needs to be grounded, instead of floating, by
design.
If that were the case, returning the negative lead of the headphone back to
the radio would be critical. I doubt this is an issue.
Interesting question. Please let us know what you find.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> I also have this combination, with a whole bunch of radio noise to boot.
> Any time I throw a switch I get input in the headphones (engine off.)
> I've spent these cold winter weeks reading and re-reading Bob's book on
> the subject. Unfortunately it's too cold to stand in the hangar and
> experiment. One question comes to mind though. Flightcom manual
> calls for headphone grounds to return to the unit, which is itself
> grounded. I ran the headphone grounds directly to the firewall-mounted
> B & C groundblock. Any chance that's the culprit? Headphone and
> microphone jacks are mounted in a piece of angle aluminum which is
> mounted to my steel fuselage cage with rubber-cushioned Adel clamps.
> Jacks themselves are mounted with the plastic and insulated washers
> prescribed by Flightcom. No shielded wire was used except between the
> radio and intercom.
> I've been scratching my head about this for quite a while. Warm
> weather can't come soon enough. Thanks very much.
> Bill Yamokoski
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
Do the lamps drain battery when they are "Turned Down"? If so, I assume you
would not want them on the battery bus without some additional switch?
- Jim
> There is no practical reason to include additional switching
> to turn the lamps OFF . . . lamp life in the keep-warm mode
> is about 10x the life of your airplane. See chapter on lighting.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GM alternator |
>
>Bob,
>
>Back to the overvoltage disconnect for my late model GM alternator (they
>call it a generator as it puts out DC) and is internally regulated. To
>recap, you advised that wiring the crowbar overvoltage device in the field
>circuit may or may not actually take the alternator off- line, correct?
>Your recommended addition of an extra circuit with a heavy duty contactor
>(105 amp) to disconnect the alternator output will complicate the
>installation but is doable. Currently I have the output going direct to
>the starter contactor via a fuse as per your recommendation.
>
>I suppose my question is what are the chances that
>(1) an overcharge condition will occur to begin with;
. . . it is low but NOT zero . . .
> and (2) if it does happen what are the chances that the
> elimination of the field voltage will not solve the problem.
100%
>I suppose an alternative is to modify the alternator for use of an
>external voltage regulator.... how hard and/or expensive is this?
>Changing the alternator is not an option.
Depends on the alternator and experience of who's doing it.
B&C routinely modifies hundreds of brand new ND alternators
to turn them into aircraft alternators . . . but their
tooling and experience level makes this a fairly easy
task . . . however, I wouldn't try it myself.
I have modified some older machines with reasonable
success but nature of the task can vary widely from
model to model even within the same brand.
I'm not familiar with your particular part, you can
ask an alternator shop about the task and see if they
would like to take it on. Many of my builders have
gone this route over the years. I cannot recall hearing any
negative feedback on the experience so this is certainly
an option to consider.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10258 Sherick |
>Hi Bob,
>
>Quick question on antenna ground planes: Is it acceptable for an external
>COMM antenna, mounted on the belly pan of a composite fuselage (E-Glass),
>to have a ground plane made from 2" wide aluminum tape, the kind you can
>buy in the hardware store?
See chapter on antennas in the AeroElectric Connection. The
technique you describe is detailed there.
>The aluminum tape seems to conform well to the slightly curved surface of
>the belly pan and can be taped in sections to tape up a rather large
>ground plane. It seems to be conductive on all strips when overlapped and
>pressed into place. I suppose soldering a braided wire across all strips
>would ensure conductivity even better.
Soft aluminum tape is VERY difficult to make an
electrical connection to that is also mechanically
robust . . . use copper strip. Hobby shops like
Hobby Lobby offer rolled, sheet copper that can
be cut into strips about 1" wide and then bonded
to the inside of your fuselage with something
like ShoGoo or perhaps an overlayment of glass and
epoxy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is flex-sleeve? |
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>what is flex-sleeve?
>
>Robert Dickson
>RV-6A
Here are some useful examples:
http://www.alphawire.com/pages/153.cfm
http://www.alphawire.com/pages/154.cfm
which you can buy from these folks
http://www.alphawire.com/index_8.cfm
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring headset jacks |
Dear all,
another question where I'm a bit uncertain, even after reading Bob's Shop
Notes and comparing them with the Seminar wirebook. Maybe Bob, if you read
this could you comment?
Bob, in the shop note you say, that you use 3 wire shielded, and the shield
itself is connected on both (?) sides to the Mic LO, did you use the 3 wire
because of wiring both mic's to only 4 ports? (You used the shielding
instead of one wire).
I have a used Garmin 340, where I have a separate port for each mic/phone,
should I use a 2wire shielded for each mic using the shield as the third
wire (if yes, which contact should be wired with the shield)? Same for the
phones, if I use the same approach I could use a 1wire shielded wire for the
two contacts. It would save weight and money.
Many thanks for your feedback
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
Bob,
Do you know what the flash rate is of the wig wag unit that B&C is
stocking?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual battery / Dual Alternator in composite canard |
pusher
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
G'Day Bob,
I have a question regarding grounding - How do you suggest running the grounds
for a dual battery (both 12V/17AH) / dual alternator (40A main/20A aux) (similar
to Z14) setup in a single engine composite canard pusher? I have B&C fast on
ground buses on the panel and the firewall, and both batteries in the nose(FYIO
- I would have used one battery / two alternators but need the weight up front,
and figured a battery is better than ballast). I was thinking:
1. 2AWG from Main Battery -ve to firewall fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt).
2. 2AWG from firewall ground bus (bolt) to engine crankcase.
3. 4AWG from Main battery -ve to instrument panel fast on ground bus (5/16" brass
bolt).
4. 4AWG from Aux battery to firewall.
Do I need anything further? I'd like to avoid the installation complexities of
copper conduit - What would you do if designing grounds for this system?
I very much appreciate your time, and forbearance.
Cheers
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig Wag flasher |
>
>Bob,
>
>Do you know what the flash rate is of the wig wag unit that B&C is
>stocking?
I should have measured them while they were here. Sorry
'bout that. I would estimate each light flashes 2 times
per second alternating.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
>
>Do the lamps drain battery when they are "Turned Down"? If so, I assume you
>would not want them on the battery bus without some additional switch?
Sure . . . which configuration are you considering for system
architecture? Why would you run the lighting from a
battery bus?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
Dual Battery / Dual Alt configuration. Was thinking that cabin lights would
be nice for night cabin/flight prep without requiring the batteries to be
turned on.
- Jim
> >
> >Do the lamps drain battery when they are "Turned Down"? If so, I assume
you
> >would not want them on the battery bus without some additional switch?
>
> Sure . . . which configuration are you considering for system
> architecture? Why would you run the lighting from a
> battery bus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I just got a price on a King 030-00101-0002 coax connector of $46. First
question is why so much? Second question would be is there a "generic"
replacement for this connector? It is the antenna connector on the KT-76C
and the KY-97A. Using RG-400 coax.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
Listers,
In the RV-6A I'm building, I'm using the switched NAV light voltage to
drive the panel dimmer circuit. Whenever the NAV lights are ON, the panel
dimmer circuit is active. ( The fallback to a blown NAV circuit fuse is the
cockpit flood LED's..) The NAV circuit voltage is also used to power a relay
whose contacts select fixed 12V instrument backlighting (default mode), or
dimmer circuit backlighting.
Some instruments require back lighting for sunlight operations, that is
too bright for night operations. The Electronics International engine
instruments are a good example of this requirement (and there's nothing in
their operational manual suggesting how it should be done...) Their LCD
display requires 12V backlighting in the sunlight, and a variable voltage at
night (i.e., the dimmer output).. Also, the LED's go into a dim mode when
12V is applied to an input (which is internally overridden if an alarm
condition occurs). So by tying in the backlight/LED power requirements into
the NAV circuit voltage, both modes of operation are obtained.
I used this same circuit concept on my last RV-6A. Never had a problem in
over 2000 hrs of operation......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
>
>Has anyone set up a single switch to turn on both the position
lights and
>the instrument lights
>(still two circuits)? I am thinking of doing this with a 2-2
switch but I
>would like to hear of any
>down side to doing it, such as a need to shut off the instrument
lights
>when the position lights are
>on. I will state that I plan on utilizing an AEC dimmer on the
instrument
>light circuit. This is
>another attempt to simplify the instrument panel and to save space.
Builders have used the 2-10 switch to control strobes and
position lights. Down is OFF, mid position is STROBE, up
is strobe + position lights.
>While we are on the subject, I am assuming that the AEC dimmer does
not
>have an off function.
Correct. The dimmer is designed to have the max
counter-clockwise
position of the dimmer pot to bias the lamps up at a voltage
just
below usable output (about 4v). This means that as you rotate
the control, you get immediate perceived response from the
action.
Dimmers that go to zero volts "waste" the first few degrees of
control rotation doing nothing but bringing the lamps up from
zero to first visible light.
There is no practical reason to include additional switching
to turn the lamps OFF . . . lamp life in the keep-warm mode
is about 10x the life of your airplane. See chapter on lighting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Position Lt and Inst Lt Switches |
>
>Dual Battery / Dual Alt configuration. Was thinking that cabin lights would
>be nice for night cabin/flight prep without requiring the batteries to be
>turned on.
Okay, if those are going to be on dimmers, you'll also
need to add a switch. They're increasingly hard to find
but some potentiometers can be fitted with switches
like the old volume control switches on radios of old.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Parks" <flightwork2(at)msn.com> |
Bob!
I've started wiring my main and aux battery contactors per your schematic Fig.
7 that came with the LVMM kit. Running a wire from the contactor to DC master
switch term 5 and term 4 to gnd will only close contractor with switch in alt
position. Contactor will not not close in the bat position. Before adding any
more wires to the switch, thought I would query whether this is normal. Have not
wired the Alt Fld breaker, fuselink and OVM-14 to the switch as yet.
regards
Tom Parks RV-7 N620CF
________________________________________________________________________________
Gang,
A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC connectors.
Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet found a source
for a decent crimp-on right angle?
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inst Lt Switches |
Perhaps I could just unplug the gooseneck from the socket (instead of a
switch)? Would not be good if I forget to take it out, but should work?
> >
> >Dual Battery / Dual Alt configuration. Was thinking that cabin lights
would
> >be nice for night cabin/flight prep without requiring the batteries to be
> >turned on.
>
> Okay, if those are going to be on dimmers, you'll also
> need to add a switch. They're increasingly hard to find
> but some potentiometers can be fitted with switches
> like the old volume control switches on radios of old.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: King connector |
>
>I just got a price on a King 030-00101-0002 coax connector of $46. First
>question is why so much? Second question would be is there a "generic"
>replacement for this connector? It is the antenna connector on the KT-76C
>and the KY-97A. Using RG-400 coax.
>Thanks
Most connectors offered with "certified" radios
are generic to some commercial catalog. Unfortunately,
the FAA frowns on the idea of buying a connector
from the original manufacturer under their part
number . . . gotta be sure you get the "right"
part. Hence, manufacturers put their numbers on
lots of generic parts at multiples of what they're
really worth. At one time, Cessna had tens of thousands
of dollars tied up in lowly U/G-21 coax connectors
stocked in 8-10 different places under a manufacturer's
part number.
I presume you're talking about a blind-mate tray
connector that fastens to the tray with a snap
ring and solders onto the coax. The tray connector
mates with radio connector as the radio seats fully
in the tray.
I poked around on the 'net and couldn't find these
in the time I had to look. Seems like they were a
U/G-1085 . . or some such 4-digit callout. Call
an avionics shop and see if they can help you. I think
this is the same connector used on ARC's tray
mounted radios too.
I'll check some of my info resources next week.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob!
>
>I've started wiring my main and aux battery contactors per your schematic
>Fig. 7 that came with the LVMM kit. Running a wire from the contactor to
>DC master switch term 5 and term 4 to gnd will only close contractor with
>switch in alt position. Contactor will not not close in the bat position.
>Before adding any more wires to the switch, thought I would query whether
>this is normal. Have not wired the Alt Fld breaker, fuselink and OVM-14 to
>the switch as yet.
Hmmm. . . numbering of the switch pins is
different on various schematics depending on
whether I was referring to a Microswitch 2TL1-10
or a AEC S700-2-10 switch. Looking into the back
of the switch, the columns are swapped. Try
moving the contactor leads to the other side of the
switch . . . sounds like they're wired to the
side that is sequenced to control the ALT FIELD
line.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Dee is home and on the mend . . . |
Brought her home just before lunch today.
Now, I've got about 36 hours to try and convert back to a
"1st shift person" for the seminar scheduled next
Saturday in Nashville!
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inst Lt Switches |
>
>Perhaps I could just unplug the gooseneck from the socket (instead of a
>switch)? Would not be good if I forget to take it out, but should work?
You could do that too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
>
>Gang,
> A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC
> connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet
> found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle?
There are a number of sources . . . but none that
I know of that will install with the tool we sell.
AMP 225974-2 is a suitable part that sells for $22.00
qty of 1. The hand tool that installs it is about $400.00
If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector,
mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk
of double walled tubing over the interface to make it
permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector.
Bob . .
________________________________________________________________________________
I've installed the RMD wingtip landing lights on my RV. These use H7604 50w
bulbs. I would like to wire these to one switch, but I've got a couple of
issues.
First, RMD supplied #12 wire for these lights, which seems too large for the
wattage and length of run.
Second, in searching the RV list archive for what other folks have done for
wiring these lights, I came across the following post from Bob (Aug 99):
If you're going to have a landing light in each
wing, you need a breaker/fuse and switch for EACH light.
50 watt bulbs draw 4.5 amps, 100 watt bulbs 9 amps, 150
watt bulbs draw 13.5 amps. Wire sizes and breakers
purely for current carrying considerations are 20AWG/7A;
18AWG/10A, and 14AWG/15A for each lamp.
In a metal airplane, voltage drops in wires selected
for current rating alone are generally insignificant.
You need to be looking at runs of 20+ feet before I'd
be concerned about voltage drops.
So, do I really need to have a switch for each light? If I don't, would
14awg wire and a 10amp fuse be appropriate for the 2 light circuit?
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Interesting. I plan a 75W taxi light and a 75W landing light on each
gear door, so 2 light per side, 4 total. If I understand correctly, you
are saying I should have 4 breakers and 4 switches? I don't understand
why, so please "learn" me :)
If you're going to have a landing light in each
wing, you need a breaker/fuse and switch for EACH light.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | emrath <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag switching |
Bob, this is getting interesting. On drawing #5, both switches need to be in
the middle position to turn the wigwag on. Instead, how about taking
circuit shown on drawing #4 and add a Switch downstream of the the 4TL1-10
device to switch either the right or left light off (use pin 2 and 5 as
powered inputs). That way one could set up one light to be the taxi and one
to be the landing light if desired on a tail dragger or one could just shut
off one of the landing lights so as not to blind observers or other pilots
while in ground ops? What kind of switch could one use, S700-2-10
(right-on-left or taxi-on-right)? Seems like this switch could be left "on"
unless one has to turn off one of the lights.
Marty in Brentwood, TN
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag switching
-->
>-->
>
>I have been looking at Bobs schmatics for Wig-Wag and I was wondering
>if
>it is feasable on the third
>layout to split the 4LT1-10 switch into tow 2-10 switches, one for taxi
>and one for landing lights.
>The idea is to be able to have both lights on, just the taxi light,
>wig-wag or off with only two
>switches. I prefer not to use three switches as on the first layout to
>save panel room.
>
>As I see it only when BOTH switches are at the center will wig-wag
>work. If the taxi switch is up
>then it will be on, no matter what position the landing lt switch is at
>and visa-versa. I came to
>this conclusion based on Note #1 that states both 2 & 3 pins of the SSF-1
>flasher must be loaded to
>a lamp in order for it to actually flash.
>
>The only reason I am looking at seperating the taxi and landing light
>is
>that I have a tail dragging
>RV-6 that I am assuming I will have to adjust the taxi light different
>then the landing light. The
>second assumption I am making is that I will need to turn off the landing
>light on the ground since
>it will be pointing up and may blind other pilots. Are these valid
>assumptions?
You betcha. What you propose will work. I've added the option
to the collection of drawings at:
http://216.55.140.222/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Off line again . . . |
This time for something more enjoyable. Will be hopping
on the big iron bird bound for Nashville in the morning.
Be back on the list Monday morning.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
I'm installing Whalen strobes and landing lights on a Seawind that I'm
building. Do all wires including the ones going to the landing lights have to
be shielded. I can't seam to find any information on this. Tom Saccio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Just the strobes, from the power supply to the light. At least that's
my understanding.
-
Larry Bowen
RV-8 electrical
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of TSaccio(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: landing lights
>
>
>
> I'm installing Whalen strobes and landing lights on a Seawind
> that I'm
> building. Do all wires including the ones going to the
> landing lights have to
> be shielded. I can't seam to find any information on this. Tom Saccio
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
Neither landing light or position light wires need to be shielded. Whelen
supplies a 3 conductor wire that shields the wires for the position lights
and strobe, but you only really need to shield the strobe wires.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TSaccio(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: landing lights
>
> I'm installing Whalen strobes and landing lights on a Seawind that I'm
> building. Do all wires including the ones going to the landing lights have
to
> be shielded. I can't seam to find any information on this. Tom Saccio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Narco Com 120 gears |
I need to replace one of the little plastic gears in the frequency
selector mechanism on a Narco Com 120.I called the factory and they want
me to ship them the radio and $400 or $500.
It's obviously not worth spending that much on a 20 year old radio. Is
there another source for these gears?
Rick Pitcher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
Interesting. I plan a 75W taxi light and a 75W landing light on each
gear door, so 2 light per side, 4 total
Will the added weight on the doors impact their remaining closed under air
loads? 'Twas Lancair's concern Wendell Durr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cycling voltmeter and ammeter |
have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question.=A0 My voltmeter and
ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps every
1/2 second or so.=A0 The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5 volts
and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out, drops
below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out......=A0 It just
rapidly cycles up and down.=A0 I have tried adjusting the voltage regulator
lower but does not seem to help the cycling.....
I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish voltage
regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device.=A0 This issue
does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.=A0
Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to steady
out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes right
back to cycling.=A0 I don't understand what is going on or if it is an issue,
but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check?
Thanks
Mike Kraus
N223RV - 16 hours and loving it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: King connector |
amphenol or amp should have a cheaper version.
Ron Raby
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: <N2165v(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King connector
>
> I just got a price on a King 030-00101-0002 coax connector of $46. First
> question is why so much? Second question would be is there a "generic"
> replacement for this connector? It is the antenna connector on the KT-76C
> and the KY-97A. Using RG-400 coax.
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
They are on the outer gear door which is directly connected to the
strut, so I think they will be alright....we'll see.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Wendell & Jean Durr
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: landing lights
Interesting. I plan a 75W taxi light and a 75W landing light on each
gear door, so 2 light per side, 4 total
Will the added weight on the doors impact their remaining closed under
air
loads? 'Twas Lancair's concern Wendell Durr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Low Cost Ground Power Jack ..... |
Bob,
I like the idea of having a ground power jack for the reasons you list
in your paper. I have ordered the parts to install one.
In re-reviewing the schematic (Fig. 3) I am having a problem
understanding how the ground power contactor can release when the
external power is removed. It seems to me that, since it is connected to
the aircraft battery positive, that contactor will remain energized
after the external power is removed; with the only recourse being to
pull the circuit breaker to unlatch the contactor.
What am I missing?
Regards,
Richard Dudley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I can't see any reason to sheild the wiring for the landing lights.
>
> I'm installing Whalen strobes and landing lights on a Seawind that I'm
> building. Do all wires including the ones going to the landing lights
> have to be shielded. I can't seam to find any information on this. Tom
> Saccio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
Rick,
NARCO now does all their own repairs - no dealer repairs anymore, so
you're stuck with them unless
you can find a avionics repair shop that has some old ones laying
around.......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
I need to replace one of the little plastic gears in the
frequency
selector mechanism on a Narco Com 120.I called the factory
and they want
me to ship them the radio and $400 or $500.
It's obviously not worth spending that much on a 20 year old
radio. Is
there another source for these gears?
Rick Pitcher
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Narco Com 120 gears |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
Rick,
A mate of mine back in Australia had the same problem with his Narco transponder.
He was quoted same, except US$500 is $1000 to an Australian..
Solution: He made an aluminium version of the gear on his lathe, installed it,
and is living happily ever after. NB: He had to synchronise the actual frequency
with the number on the dial (Note: It was only one XPDR dial of the four).
You could probably get an Avionics shop to install your own gear and bench synchronise.
The tech wont look twice when he sees the stripped plastic version he's
replacing. Personally, if your not breaking a warranty seal on the old box,
I'd do it mys.... (Ooops, can I say that?)
- Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick [mailto:rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Narco Com 120 gears
I need to replace one of the little plastic gears in the frequency
selector mechanism on a Narco Com 120.I called the factory and they want
me to ship them the radio and $400 or $500.
It's obviously not worth spending that much on a 20 year old radio. Is
there another source for these gears?
Rick Pitcher
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Narco Com 120 gears |
I don't know about the gears, but I've seen Com 120s on Ebay for relatively cheap
:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401916981&category=26436
Certainly better than handing over a fistful of cash to Narco or redoing your panel
around something else....
Thanks!
Brad "Sharpie" Benson
RV6AQB underway...
"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" - http://www.notamd.com
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 1/31/2003 at 12:07 AM Rick wrote:
>
>
>I need to replace one of the little plastic gears in the frequency
>selector mechanism on a Narco Com 120.I called the factory and they want
>me to ship them the radio and $400 or $500.
>It's obviously not worth spending that much on a 20 year old radio. Is
>there another source for these gears?
>
>Rick Pitcher
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Narco Com 120 gears |
Might check to see if the older non-approved COMs have the same gears.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Narco Com 120 gears
>
>
> I don't know about the gears, but I've seen Com 120s on Ebay for
relatively cheap :
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401916981&cat
egory=26436
>
> Certainly better than handing over a fistful of cash to Narco or redoing
your panel around something else....
>
> Thanks!
> Brad "Sharpie" Benson
> RV6AQB underway...
> "Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" -
http://www.notamd.com
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 1/31/2003 at 12:07 AM Rick wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I need to replace one of the little plastic gears in the frequency
> >selector mechanism on a Narco Com 120.I called the factory and they want
> >me to ship them the radio and $400 or $500.
> >It's obviously not worth spending that much on a 20 year old radio. Is
> >there another source for these gears?
> >
> >Rick Pitcher
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
I recently bought a male-to-female right angle BNC connector at Radio Shack.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: <DHPHKH(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Right Angle BNC
>
> Gang,
> A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC
connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet
found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle?
>
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Cost Ground Power Jack ..... |
Bob,
I believe that I have found the answer to my own question. The symbol
that I took as a circuit breaker is a switch breaker. Then the operating
procedure would be to connect the external power which could be
confirmed by the push-to-test light. The switch breaker would have
control of the contactor and would have to be switched off at the end of
the transfer to avoid the battery holding the contactor closed.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
Richard Dudley wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I like the idea of having a ground power jack for the reasons you list
> in your paper. I have ordered the parts to install one.
>
> In re-reviewing the schematic (Fig. 3) I am having a problem
> understanding how the ground power contactor can release when the
> external power is removed. It seems to me that, since it is connected to
> the aircraft battery positive, that contactor will remain energized
> after the external power is removed; with the only recourse being to
> pull the circuit breaker to unlatch the contactor.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <rick.pitcher(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Narco Com 120 gears |
You guys sure are a helpful lot :
)
Besides the answers I got here on the list, I got several more emails at
home with suggestions.
I was thinking about making an aluminum replacement on a lathe, but went
out to the local avionics shop and was able to buy a "core" with a
decent set of gears in it. I went through 3 radios before I found one
that didn't have too much damage on the same gear. The one I ended up
buying had a little crack already starting, but I laid a bead of epoxy
alongside the gear and bonded it to the aluminum hub it is pressed onto.
It works great, hopefully it will KEEP working.
Thanks,
Rick Pitcher
http://lightflyers.com/Zodiac.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <wsweet(at)attbi.com> |
The Chief Aircraft catalog has 3 different types of coaxial cable: RG-58 (50 ohm),
RG-142 (low loss for DME/TPX/GPS) and RG-400(low loss for GPS). I have used
only the multi-stranded RG58 in my homebuilt for all the radios, not knowing
about the other two. Why the other two???
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
>
>
> >
> >Gang,
> > A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC
> > connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet
> > found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle?
>
> There are a number of sources . . . but none that
> I know of that will install with the tool we sell.
> AMP 225974-2 is a suitable part that sells for $22.00
> qty of 1. The hand tool that installs it is about $400.00
Ouch.
> If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector,
> mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk
> of double walled tubing over the interface to make it
> permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector.
I've done that in the past, and it's seemed to work fine for me. But
someone who *says* that they know RF tells me that you loose a lot of
energy out the angle unless it's a super special very expensive right angle
that has a little horseshoe magnet in it. Any truth to that?
________________________________________________________________________________
Gulf Coast Avionics sells a compatible coax connector (p/n 9-30-10 tray mount
connector) for $20.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
All
I am wiring my Panel. My Bendix/King KX125 has three output lines labeled
"AUX AUDIO 1 , 2 , 3 ". What are they used for? I am trying to figure out
the audio wiring of this thing.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
Europa XS N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernie_C(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
What about these guys??
<<http://www.pasternack.com/catalog.asp?RecNo=0&partNum=pe4345>>
<<http://www.pasternack.com/catalog.asp?RecNo=0&partNum=pe4053>>
The 4053 is solder. No special tools.
Bernie C.
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Gang,
> > A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC
> > connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet
> > found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle?
>
> There are a number of sources . . . but none that
> I know of that will install with the tool we sell.
> AMP 225974-2 is a suitable part that sells for $22.00
> qty of 1. The hand tool that installs it is about $400.00
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector,
> mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk
> of double walled tubing over the interface to make it
> permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector.
>
> Bob . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Rick,
"I've done that in the past, and it's seemed to work fine for me. But
someone who *says* that they know RF tells me that you lose a lot of energy
out the angle unless it's a super special very expensive right angle that
has a little horseshoe magnet in it. Any truth to that? "
Maybe that little horseshoe is an Omega sign - ohms impedance?
The ideal is 50ohms for RF.
I have one marked "CBWU UG306A". I think that's OK for impedance
but beware of rim-etched "CARO UG306/U" as no record of producer.
Not a horseshoe in a barrel, nor could I find a crimp version.
These are all twist&lock for RG58 coaxial cable.
Good Luck,
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
Hey Bob,
I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to
handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be
VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground
twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is
only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts and
shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it
operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for DC
Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" <mmdues@hal-pc.org
> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is better
> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing
> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles.
> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively
> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had a
> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle switch
> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, or
> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned
> on.
> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD
It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the available switches
are actually up to snuff.
How's Dee? Making good progress I hope.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
Bernie
thanks for the reply. I think you're right about a larger fuse being needed.
I've got another question, however.
Given that I'm going to run the two landing lights to one switch using 14awg
wires, is it ok to power that switch using 14awg or should I bump that part
of the run from the main bus(very short) to a larger size? The answer to
this is probably in the Connection, but I'm just not sure what's going on
with a two-branch circuit like this.
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
----------
>From: deltaB(at)erols.com
>To: robert@thenews-journal.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: landing lights
>Date: Fri, Jan 31, 2003, 7:22 PM
>
> I didn't see any replies to your question on this thread.
>
> You still only need to protect the 12 gauge wire with a single
> fuse. I'm sure you will find a rating that is low enough to protect
> the wire, yet high enough not to nuisance trip on the 100 watt
> load. (15 amps if the numbers below are to be believed) The
> proponents of the independent fusing/switching are allowing for
> failures to affect one light without the other. A 10 amp fuse may
> be a little close to the inrush current of the 9 amp load to use.
>
> Bernie C.
>
> Robert Dickson wrote:
>>
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>>
>> I've installed the RMD wingtip landing lights on my RV. These use H7604 50w
>> bulbs. I would like to wire these to one switch, but I've got a couple of
>> issues.
>> First, RMD supplied #12 wire for these lights, which seems too large for the
>> wattage and length of run.
>> Second, in searching the RV list archive for what other folks have done for
>> wiring these lights, I came across the following post from Bob (Aug 99):
>>
>> If you're going to have a landing light in each
>> wing, you need a breaker/fuse and switch for EACH light.
>> 50 watt bulbs draw 4.5 amps, 100 watt bulbs 9 amps, 150
>> watt bulbs draw 13.5 amps. Wire sizes and breakers
>> purely for current carrying considerations are 20AWG/7A;
>> 18AWG/10A, and 14AWG/15A for each lamp.
>>
>> In a metal airplane, voltage drops in wires selected
>> for current rating alone are generally insignificant.
>> You need to be looking at runs of 20+ feet before I'd
>> be concerned about voltage drops.
>>
>> So, do I really need to have a switch for each light? If I don't, would
>> 14awg wire and a 10amp fuse be appropriate for the 2 light circuit?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Robert Dickson
>> RV-6A electrical
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Bar Lamps from MPJA |
Here's a link to the bar lamps I purchased from MPJA last year after
seeing a message to the A-list from Jim Foerster about them. (thanks for
the tip, Jim!) They are apparently still available and are rectangular,
modular units that have grooves on the top and sides so they can be
"stacked" together, as many as you like, and have 2 parallel bulbs in
each- for details see:
http://www.mpja.com/product.asp?product=5072+LA
I am using these to assemble a "poor mans" annunciator and they may work
out just fine- for fifteen cents each, I bought 50 of 'em! I measured
them at about 160ma @14VDC, or about 2.25 watts (if my math is
correct!). Not assembled yet, but we'll see...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - Jim's original message below:
For those who want to build their own annunciator lights, the nicest
system I have seen uses 1.5in by 3/8 in bar lights, which have two 12
volt bulbs, draw 180 ma, and have stacking tongue and groove slots so
that they can be stacked horizontally, vertically, or variations of
these. A colored plastic sheet with lettering can be run through your
laser printer to make whatever lable you want, and because the lighted
area is 1.5 by 1/4, the lable can have 6 to 10 letters. The lamps glow
at a medium intensity, suggesting that they should be good for thousands
of hours. The price? 20 cents each, 15 cents for 10 or more. I got 30 of
them. see http://www.mpja.com/product.asp?product5072+LA for the
picture. These use 0.187 faston tabs.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KX125 wireing |
>
>All
>
>I am wiring my Panel. My Bendix/King KX125 has three output lines labeled
>"AUX AUDIO 1 , 2 , 3 ". What are they used for? I am trying to figure out
>the audio wiring of this thing.
>
>
>Cliff Shaw
>1041 Euclid ave.
>Edmonds WA 98020
>(425) 776-5555
> Europa XS N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
Many nav/coms of years gone by had auxiliary audio INPUTS
to their audio amplifiers that could be used to mix outputs
from other sources together into the same headphone/speaker
signals. I suspect that's what these are.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
>
> > If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector,
> > mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk
> > of double walled tubing over the interface to make it
> > permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector.
>
>I've done that in the past, and it's seemed to work fine for me. But
>someone who *says* that they know RF tells me that you loose a lot of
>energy out the angle unless it's a super special very expensive right angle
>that has a little horseshoe magnet in it. Any truth to that?
Nope . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Coaxial cables |
>
>The Chief Aircraft catalog has 3 different types of coaxial cable: RG-58
>(50 ohm), RG-142 (low loss for DME/TPX/GPS) and RG-400(low loss for GPS).
>I have used only the multi-stranded RG58 in my homebuilt for all the
>radios, not knowing about the other two. Why the other two???
>Wayne
RG-58 is an obsolete spec coax of WWII era using PVC and
polyethylene insulations and single braid shield. Hasn't
been used in a production aircraft for decades. RG400 cousins
are lower loss, double shielded, modern insulation products
that march along hand-in-hand with tefzel insulated wires
for the rest of your airplane. It's the year-2003 way
to go.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
>
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>What about these guys??
>
>
><<http://www.pasternack.com/catalog.asp?RecNo=0&partNum=pe4345>>
>
>
><<http://www.pasternack.com/catalog.asp?RecNo=0&partNum=pe4053>>
>
>The 4053 is solder. No special tools.
That will work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which
are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been
testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their
performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them on,
so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation.
The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay.
Just something to think about.
I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units
called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully
someday)
Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will
hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle
200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon.
Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag
flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic
gadgets that should make our planes safer.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob W
M Shipley
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
Hey Bob,
I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay
to
handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can
be
VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the
ground
twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC
is
only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts
and
shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it
operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for
DC
Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues" <mmdues@hal-pc.org
> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is
better
> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing
> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles.
> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively
> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had
a
> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle
switch
> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut,
or
> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned
> on.
> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD
It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the available
switches are actually up to snuff.
How's Dee? Making good progress I hope.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring headset jacks 2nd try |
As I've got no answer I repost this message
Dear all,
another question where I'm a bit uncertain, even after reading Bob's Shop
Notes and comparing them with the Seminar wirebook. Maybe Bob, if you read
this could you comment?
Bob, in the shop note you say, that you use 3 wire shielded, and the shield
itself is connected on both (?) sides to the Mic LO, did you use the 3 wire
because of wiring both mic's to only 4 ports? (You used the shielding
instead of one wire).
I have a used Garmin 340, where I have a separate port for each mic/phone,
should I use a 2wire shielded for each mic using the shield as the third
wire (if yes, which contact should be wired with the shield)? Same for the
phones, if I use the same approach I could use a 1wire shielded wire for
the
two contacts. It would save weight and money.
Many thanks for your feedback
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PTACKABURY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation |
Bob: I am building an unpressurized Lancair IV and am designing the power
distribution to support all electric dual electronic ignition operation (no
vacuum, no mags). I am therefore using your Z-14 diagram as the foundation
for the dual alt, dual battery installation. My question: what criteria
should I use to size the second alternator and second battery? I would like
to save weight where possible and yet insure these devices are capable of
supporting what ever load an emergency might require. thank you, paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10265 Sherick |
>
>Thanks for the reply to my previous email concerning antenna ground
>planes. I did review the antenna section in your (nicely done) book and
>it brings up a couple more questions that I hope you will comment on.
>
>I am using a Comant COMM antenna (swept back version) on the e-glass belly
>pan. I have a total space of 24" wide x 48" long for a ground plane
>area. The Comm antenna is back from a Transponder antenna, which is
>placed forward on the belly pan.
>
>Question: Can I use the copper tape approach for the COMM antenna with the
>limited belly pan width of 24 inches? Or, is it possible to just use a
>single piece of aluminum 24" x 48" for the ground plane for both the COMM
>and Transponder antennas? Which approach might be more effective as a
>ground plane?
One never achieves an ideal ground plane on small aircraft.
ANY ground plane is better than NO ground plane. Do the best
you can and don't worry about it. Radials can run up the
contours and still be VERY effective. It's the length
that is magic, not the "flatness" . . . any hunk of aluminum
you can fit in there will probably be adequate also.
>Regarding the Marker Beacon antenna: You indicate a "sled" type approach
>75" in length. Bob Archer has a 1" wide copper tape version 40" long. Is
>either approach OK the the Marker Beacon antenna requirement? Also, how
>for from the COMM ground plane should the Marker Beacon antenna be located?
That 75" figure is an error . . . which you are the first one
to bring it to my attention. 75MHz marker beacon is 4 meters
full wavelength making a 1/4 wave antenna 1 meter long or
40". The 40" internal antenna wire would be fine. It can begin
at the edge of your aluminum sheet ground plane. Ground shield
of marker beacon coax to ground plane and connect center conductor
of coax to 40' piece of wire that is straight as possible but again,
length is magic, straightness is less important.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Cost Ground Power Jack ..... |
>
>Bob,
>I believe that I have found the answer to my own question. The symbol
>that I took as a circuit breaker is a switch breaker. Then the operating
>procedure would be to connect the external power which could be
>confirmed by the push-to-test light. The switch breaker would have
>control of the contactor and would have to be switched off at the end of
>the transfer to avoid the battery holding the contactor closed.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard Dudley
You got it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switches and AC |
| From: | Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> |
Shannon,
How do we contact Eric Jones.
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>
> For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which
> are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been
> testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their
> performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them
> on,
> so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation.
> The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay.
> Just something to think about.
>
> I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
> heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units
> called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
> busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully
> someday)
>
> Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will
> hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and handle
> 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon.
>
> Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig wag
> flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic
> gadgets that should make our planes safer.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> W
> M Shipley
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
>
>
>
> Hey Bob,
> I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
> Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a
> relay
> to
> handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can
> be
> VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the
> ground
> twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC
> is
> only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts
> and
> shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and
> it
> operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need
> for
> DC
> Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
> Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues"
> <mmdues@hal-pc.org
>> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is
> better
>> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
>> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing
>> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles.
>> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively
>> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had
> a
>> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle
> switch
>> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
>> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut,
> or
>> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned
>> on.
>> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD
>
> It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the
> available
> switches are actually up to snuff.
>
> How's Dee? Making good progress I hope.
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
Hello all
Forgive me if this has been addressed before, I am new to this list
and did not have luck running the archives.
I was wiring a PTT switch for my hand held 520 JRC radio. It seems to
work better and shut off faster if I use only a single switch from
the tip of the plug to the ground, and leave the center connector to
center connector connection connected rather then disconnecting them
with a second switch when I release the PTT switch. ( I hope that is
understandable to people.)
Does anyone have feelings on weather or not I should leave this as a
single switch or double it up and disconnect the center connectors?
_____________________ _____
l \/ \
___________l_________/\_____/
ground center tip
Thanks
Mark Wood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10267 Strickland |
>
>I'm an RV-6 builder and I'm building your dual alt/single battery
>electrical system (Figure Z-12 in revision 10.) I have a couple of questions:
>
>1) I'm running a dual electronic ignition (Light Speed Engineering, Klaus
>Saviors system) and he recommends I connect to the battery, by-passing any
>busses. He also recommends a 5 amp circuit breaker. Your schematic shows
>electronic ignition coming off the battery bus. I'm a total fan of your
>design and was planning on running one electronic ignition, via the fuse
>block, off the battery bus and the other off the essential bus, what
>should I do?
I think I'd run both of them off the battery bus. Each
on with it's own fuse. . . . since this is an electrically
dependent engine, you might consider adding a second battery,
(even if just a small, 6-8 a.h. device), a battery relay
(mini-contactor) to support one of ignition systems.
>2)Your schematic shows a circuit braker for the alt fld, lv warn, and
>start. How do I connect a circuit breaker to the fuse block?
Those diagrams are generic depictions of architectures. If you
use fuse blocks, then only the ALT FLD gets a breaker on an
EXTENSION of the bus created by fusible link connection to
the main feedpoint bolt of the fuseblock. (See Figure Z-11)
If you use breakers as depicted in Z-12, then everything feeds
from your fabricated bus via breakers.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switches and AC |
>
>Hey Bob,
>I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
>Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to
>handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be
>VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground
>twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is
>only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts and
>shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it
>operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for DC
>Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
>Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the
following:
1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim
light?
2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to
find something in the dark when the plane is parked?
Thanks, Steve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Dual battery / Dual Alternator in composite canard |
pusher
boeing.com>
>Bob,
>
>I managed to work this one out myself (like I should have in the first
>place). The listed connections in the email below are incorrect. I now have:
>
>1. 2AWG all the way from Main battery to engine crankcase ground.
>2. Ground strap from engine crankcase ground to firewall fast on ground
>bus (5/16" brass bolt).
>3. 4AWG from firewall fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt) to instrument
>panel fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt).
>4. 2AWG from Aux battery to firewall fast on ground bus (5/16" brass bolt).
>
>Unless you have any further comment, I'll move fwd with this plan.
>
>- Wayne
Take a look at http://216.55.140.222/temp/CPDBFB.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
>heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A).
A 7A "rated" toggle or rocker switch would run for thousands
of cycles in any of these applications.
> I'm using Eric's larger units
>called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
>busses (15A and 22A).
Avionics busses?????? how come?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation |
>
>
>Bob: I am building an unpressurized Lancair IV and am designing the power
>distribution to support all electric dual electronic ignition operation (no
>vacuum, no mags). I am therefore using your Z-14 diagram as the foundation
>for the dual alt, dual battery installation. My question: what criteria
>should I use to size the second alternator and second battery? I would like
>to save weight where possible and yet insure these devices are capable of
>supporting what ever load an emergency might require. thank you, paul
You haven't got many choices for vacuum pump driven
alternators. There's an 8A and a 20A device currently
on the market. The 8A is probably too small, so go with
the SD-20.
Bob . . .
p.s. please don't think of ANY failure in your electrical
system as being worthy of calling it an EMERGENCY. If
we don't end up with a system that takes ANY failure as
a ho-hum, no-sweat event, then we haven't done our
homework.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try |
> Bob, in the shop note you say, that you use 3 wire shielded, and the shield
> itself is connected on both (?) sides to the Mic LO, did you use the 3 wire
> because of wiring both mic's to only 4 ports? (You used the shielding
> instead of one wire).
The shop notes are one example of suitable wiring as it
applies to the 760VHF that has one PTT and two mic inputs
for the pair crew stations. This means I have three active
wires departing the radio and the need for one ground return.
I had some 3-conductor shielded and the drawing illustrates
a technique for using wire on hand for this task.
> I have a used Garmin 340, where I have a separate port for each mic/phone,
> should I use a 2wire shielded for each mic using the shield as the third
> wire (if yes, which contact should be wired with the shield)? Same for the
> phones, if I use the same approach I could use a 1wire shielded wire for
>the
> two contacts. It would save weight and money.
Here's a wirebook I did for a 430/340 combo
in the AGATE Bonanza a few years ago.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/gns430.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PTT switches |
>
>Hello all
>Forgive me if this has been addressed before, I am new to this list
>and did not have luck running the archives.
>
>I was wiring a PTT switch for my hand held 520 JRC radio. It seems to
>work better and shut off faster if I use only a single switch from
>the tip of the plug to the ground, and leave the center connector to
>center connector connection connected rather then disconnecting them
>with a second switch when I release the PTT switch. ( I hope that is
>understandable to people.)
>Does anyone have feelings on weather or not I should leave this as a
>single switch or double it up and disconnect the center connectors?
>
>_____________________ _____
> l \/ \
>___________l_________/\_____/
>ground center tip
>
>Thanks
>Mark Wood
You difficult to argue with success . . . but if what
you're doing is contrary to manufacturer's instructions,
there is some risk that requirements unknown to us
are not being satisfied.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the
>following:
>
>1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim
>light?
>2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to
>find something in the dark when the plane is parked?
The human eye is an amazing device with a huge dynamic
range. ANY high output led (600 MCD or more) will produce
usable results for total light output.
You may find that the light doesn't spread enough
for convenient use which may drive a need for multiple
lamps. It's a an experiment that may well dictate changes
to whatever you put in the first time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Eric M. Jones emjones(at)charter.net
He's on this list.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Walter Casey
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
Shannon,
How do we contact Eric Jones.
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>
> For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which
> are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been
> testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their
> performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them
> on,
> so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation.
> The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay.
> Just something to think about.
>
> I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
> heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units
> called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
> busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully
> someday)
>
> Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will
> hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and
handle
> 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon.
>
> Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig
wag
> flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic
> gadgets that should make our planes safer.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> W
> M Shipley
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
>
>
>
> Hey Bob,
> I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
> Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a
> relay
> to
> handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch
can
> be
> VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the
> ground
> twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC
> is
> only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts
> and
> shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and
> it
> operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need
> for
> DC
> Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
> Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues"
> <mmdues@hal-pc.org
>> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is
> better
>> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
>> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like
landing
>> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German
vehicles.
>> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them
exclusively
>> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never
had
> a
>> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle
> switch
>> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
>> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut,
> or
>> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are
turned
>> on.
>> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD
>
> It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the
> available
> switches are actually up to snuff.
>
> How's Dee? Making good progress I hope.
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | switch keyway question |
Sorry if the answer to this is obvious...
I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut
any holes yet.
When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally
ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the
keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32"
holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a
lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Bob,
....per comments about switches versus solid state devices....
I stick with 1,000,000 cycles, thanks. No big deal, but to each his
own, and in this case I'll stick with my way. You always want people to
tell you why. Well, in this case, my reason is quite
simple.....1,000,000+ cycles is better than 1,000. Solid state devices
will always win when it becomes a battle of dependability, especially
where vibration is a concern. Also, the solid state devices have
thermal shutout protection modes that no switch or relay have. The
sizes and weight are also much less for the solid state devices. The
cube (20A) is about the size of a dice, the powerlink jr (35A) is the
size of a domino. In my design I haven't chosen to implement this, as
they aren't 100% proven yet, but in the future, you won't even need
fuses or circuit breakers with these devices and their protection
modes.....if they draw too much current, they trip out until the current
reaches a normal level. This would be a highly simplified system
without CB's or fuses, and a lot less weight, AND no pilot
thought/action required. Until they are proven and I have some hours on
them, I chose to go a more traditional route....
http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon-jan03/panel_cbs
http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon-jan03/panel_perfect_cube_2
with mounting the cubes DIRECTLY to the circuit breaker, as their tab is
a Vin terminal also.
....per questions about avionics busses.....
Bob, we've been through all this before on the avionics busses,
http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ the spreadsheet with all
the loads is there. My devices, Chelton Flight Systems EFIS 2000
system, are not DO-160 on the experimental side (and half the price
versus the certified DO-160 version.....the certified version wasn't
even available when I purchased mine though, so it wasn't an option), so
they require a dedicated buss during starting. I realize this isn't
ideal, but it is what I have chosen to work with, and I am quite happen
with them. Therefore, I decided to design a system as simple and yet
robust as possible within the design limits I chose by using the CFS
EFIS. I think I've succeeded.
Here's what I've done: The EFIS has to be behind an AV MASTER, no other
way about it. I also like the convenience of an AV MASTER to simplify
power up and down of my quite complex all electric panel. So, 1) I have
to have it to protect my "wimpy" or "pampered" EFIS, and 2) I like the
convenience. Also, since the EFIS is one of my essential flight
instruments, it needs to be on an ESS buss, so basically I combined an
ESS (or endurance as you call it now) buss and a AVIONICS buss together.
My design is simple. There is a switch on the panel that controls a
Powerlink Jr SSR. The Jr SSR is fed from the main buss through a diode
and then on to the ESS AV devices. Now, this alone doesn't make it an
ESS buss, so an ALT FEED switch will switch power directly to this ESS
buss from the battery in a true emergency, just leaving on what I need,
which the EFIS happens to be one of the devices.
The only difference between my system and yours is instead of just the
diode feeding the ESS buss, I added a interruptible power, so I can shut
it off and make it an AV buss too and protect the EFIS during starting.
To make this aspect as dependable as possible, I went beyond just a
normal relay, and am using a solid state device. In true ESS buss form,
this is all backed up by a ALT FEED switch.
I think I've come up with the simplest system and the most robust that
will fit my needs. I see no drawbacks. As always, I'm open to
comments.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
>
>
>I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
>heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A).
A 7A "rated" toggle or rocker switch would run for thousands
of cycles in any of these applications.
> I'm using Eric's larger units
>called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
>busses (15A and 22A).
Avionics busses?????? how come?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Shaffer <shafferaviation(at)yahoo.com> |
Shannon Knoepflein wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: "Shannon Knoepflein"
Eric M. Jones emjones(at)charter.net
He's on this list.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Walter Casey
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
Shannon,
How do we contact Eric Jones.
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>
> For an application like this, I would suggest the Perfect Cubes, which
> are solid state devices that Eric Jones is building. I have been
> testing these units the past couple weeks, and have found their
> performance to be great. They draw very little current to turn them
> on,
> so your switches should last for a long time with little degradation.
> The cubes themselves, being solid state, will far outlast any relay.
> Just something to think about.
>
> I'm using these for my taxi lights (11A), landing lights (11A), pitot
> heat (7A), Navs (5A), and strobes (7A). I'm using Eric's larger units
> called the Powerlink JR on my gear up and down (35A) and my avionics
> busses (15A and 22A). No relays in my plane :) (well, hopefully
> someday)
>
> Eric is also working on a larger unit, called a Powerlink, that will
> hopefully be able to replace the stardard battery contactors and
handle
> 200A+. I have a prototype, and hope to test it soon.
>
> Eric has some other cool products too, like the super diodes, a wig
wag
> flasher, and is working on LED bulbs. All kinds of cool electronic
> gadgets that should make our planes safer.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> W
> M Shipley
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
>
>
>
> Hey Bob,
> I saw this in the RV digest and would like your comments.
>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
> Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a
> relay
> to
> handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch
can
> be
> VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the
> ground
> twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC
> is
> only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts
> and
> shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and
> it
> operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need
> for
> DC
> Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
> Ron DeWees Atlanta, Ga
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall M. Dues"
> >> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is
> better
>> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
>> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like
landing
>> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German
vehicles.
>> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them
exclusively
>> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never
had
> a
>> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle
> switch
>> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
>> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut,
> or
>> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are
turned
>> on.
>> Marshall Dues Katy, Texas RV-6 N243MD
>
> It sounds like a way of ontroducing more failure points if the
> available
> switches are actually up to snuff.
>
> How's Dee? Making good progress I hope.
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _- you san go candhsales.com they have 50 amp DC aircraft relays for $7.95 ea.
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PTACKABURY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation |
Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup
battery? paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>....per comments about switches versus solid state devices....
>I think I've come up with the simplest system and the most robust that
>will fit my needs. I see no drawbacks. As always, I'm open to
>comments.
Fair 'nuf.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: switch keyway question |
>
>Sorry if the answer to this is obvious...
>
>I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut
>any holes yet.
>
>When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally
>ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the
>keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32"
>holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a
>lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation?
Ignore the keyway for cutting panel and then use anti-rotation
washer that comes with switch. Hole layout for using these washers
is shown on page 6 of:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/tr/catalog/tl_series.pdf
Note that tab on anti-rotation washer may be on the OPPOSITE
side from switch keyway so the anti-rotation hole may need
to be BELOW the main clearance hole.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: switch keyway question |
My switches came with the washer that fits over the flat on the threaded
shaft. The washer has a tab that is bent 90 deg. so I drilled a small hole
next to the main switch mounting hole and clocked it properly to align the
switch. This keeps the switches properly oriented during installation and
keeps them that way during use. Because the switch can't turn during
normal use, it also helps to prevent the switch nut from working loose.
scot
At 11:52 AM 2/3/2003, Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>Sorry if the answer to this is obvious...
>
>I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut
>any holes yet.
>
>When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally
>ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have the
>keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32"
>holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a
>lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation?
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation |
How can you size the altenator without even knowing what loads will be
on it? I'd suggest doing a load analysis spreadsheet. There is one on
my site, http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/ get the
spreadsheet, which you can use as a starting point/template.
There is a 35A pad mount alternator available from GAMI in both a
standard and a 90 degree mount. These are ~6# units. Also, Kelly
Aerospace is developing a 70A unit that is pad mount.
I imagine you are a little ways out from need the alternator, so I would
suggest doing a load analysis, and then deciding what alternator to use.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PTACKABURY(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation
Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup
battery? paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alt, Dual Battery Installation |
>
>
>Thanks Bob: 20A backup alternator it is. Now how do I size the backup
>battery? paul
I'd run a pair of 17 a.h. batteries. Every year, put a new battery
in main alternator slot, move old main to aux battery slot, give
old aux battery to grand-kids for their battery powered kiddie-car.
This way, you always have a battery less than one year old,
no battery more than two years old. This combination of
34 a.h. of demonstrable capacity combined with two engine
driven power sources will provide you system integrity
not available on the vast majority of aircraft flying in
the world today.
However, given the the way most light aircraft are used
you could probably save a few dollars by running the batteries
till they croak . . . with two alternators, your chances
of getting caught with a dark panel are on the same order
as having your propeller break off.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: switch keyway question |
Hello Dan,
if you drill the keyway switch (the 90 deg tab) first, there is no problem
to drill the switch hole later,
worked on my panel in about 10 cases.
Werner (crimping and crimping and crimping.......)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch keyway question
>
> Sorry if the answer to this is obvious...
>
> I'm still in the panel planning phase...haven't bought any switches or cut
> any holes yet.
>
> When drilling your panel for toggle switches, is the keyway slot generally
> ignored? I mean...maybe if you have the panel laser cut you could have
the
> keyway notch integrated into the cutout, but when drilling your own 15/32"
> holes there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this. Does simply using a
> lock washer of some sort prevent switch rotation?
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring headset jacks 2nd try |
Hello Bob,
as usual, exactly what I need to confirm my doing!
Appreciate very much your help!
Kind regards
Werner
> Here's a wirebook I did for a 430/340 combo
> in the AGATE Bonanza a few years ago.
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/gns430.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cycling voltmeter and ammeter |
>
> have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question.=A0 My voltmeter and
>ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps every
>1/2 second or so.=A0 The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5 volts
>and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out, drops
>below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out......=A0 It just
>rapidly cycles up and down.=A0 I have tried adjusting the voltage regulator
>lower but does not seem to help the cycling.....
>
>I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish voltage
>regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device.=A0 This issue
>does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.=A0
>
>Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to steady
>out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes right
>back to cycling.=A0 I don't understand what is going on or if it is an issue,
>but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check?
This sounds like a classic voltage stability problem
that can jump up when there is too much resistance
in the wiring and components between a voltage regulator
and where it ties to the bus.
Just for grins, try making a temporary connection from
the input of your regulator right to the b-lead of
the alternator. Use a nice fat 18AWG or 16AWG wire.
Disconnect the regulator's input lead that gets power
from the bus and splice it to the test wire. Attach
the other end of the wire to the alternator b-lead.
Turn off ALL electronic gizmos. Start the engine
and check the voltmeter. If the voltage looks okay,
then try turning things on to vary the load while
you watch the voltmeter. There's a good chance that
the voltage will be steady.
If this is true, then you need to "refurbish" all
wiring/components between the bus and the regulator.
This is a very common problem on some models of
single engine Cessnas where there can be as many as
20 joints in the wiring between bus and regulator.
As these age and increase in resistance, the system
can become unstable in exactly the manner you
have described.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian & Debi Shannon" <wings(at)theshannons.net> |
| Subject: | DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? |
Hi Bob/All,
I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for my
Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to come
by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a few
28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question is:
Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an
inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC
converter found here at
http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120
(MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at
http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC
converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but is a
bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any
issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight?
Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about this
issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people start
looking for electric back-up attitude indicators!
Regards,
Brian
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Angle BNC |
>
>
>>
>>Gang,
>> A few months ago somebody asked about crimp-on right angle female BNC
>> connectors. Bob mentioned using a right angle adapter. Has anyone yet
>> found a source for a decent crimp-on right angle?
>
> There are a number of sources . . . but none that
> I know of that will install with the tool we sell.
> AMP 225974-2 is a suitable part that sells for $22.00
> qty of 1. The hand tool that installs it is about $400.00
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd install a cable male connector,
> mate it with a right angle adapter and shrink a chunk
> of double walled tubing over the interface to make it
> permanent. . . . the po' boy's right angle connector.
>
> Bob . .
>
What about the Amphenol 31-334, available from Newark as PN 39F1443
for $28.92? It needs the Amphenol CTL-1 tool, which Mouser lists for
about $50. Is this connector comptiable with the RCT-2 tool that B&C
sells?
I suddenly developed an interest in 90 deg coax connectors tonight,
as I just discovered that my avionics installation leaves a bit less
room for the RG-400 coax than I had hoped. So, I spent a little
while flipping pages of an old Newark catalog and found:
90 deg BNC 50 ohm jack plug - part number 89F2919 - $18.11 - TYCO ELECTRONICS
http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=89F2919
90 deg BNC crimp on jack plug (UG-306)- part number 39F071 - $17.39
- AMPHENOL
http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=39F071
90 deg BNC crimp on jack plug (UG-306A)- part number 39F1071 -
$12.62 - AMPHENOL
http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/support/catalog/productDetail.jsp?id=39F1071
Questions - should there be enough performance difference between the
crimp on connector vs the jack plug to make this a consideration?
I've got to connect to COM, NAV, G/S and GPS antennae.
I've searched the web, but I can't find what the difference is
between a UG-306 and a UG-306A connector (other than about $5). Can
anyone shed any light on this?
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
Steve Sampson wrote:
>
>I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the
>following:
>
>1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in dim
>light?
>2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement to
>find something in the dark when the plane is parked?
>
>Thanks, Steve.
>
Steve,
l000 mcd = 1cd is approximately as much light as from 1 regular candle.
Jerzy
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Parks" <flightwork2(at)msn.com> |
Bob!
If I wire the switch per the terminal number sequence shown in Fig 11-11 of Aeroconnection,
it works as advertised regarding closing the contactor in the bat
and alt position. Figure 7 of the ABMM schematic shows a (2-10) switch terminals
only. The (2-10) switch terminals shown in the notes section of Figure 7
indicates a S700 (2-10) switch, mounted keyway up. I'll use the terminal layout
shown in Fig 11-11 for all (2-10) switches (obtained from B&C) for my aircraft
wiring.
regards,
Tom Parks RV-7 N620CF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grounding strobe shield on RV's? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
I'm interested in getting the strobe wire shield grounding philosophy
clarified....understand you recommend for composite aircraft to ground
the shielding to the strobe head body, whereas on a metal aircraft to
leave the shield at the strobe head end unconnected. Is that correct?
Now, on the RV series, of course most of the wing is metal BUT the
wingtip is fiberglass so the strobe body is not mounted directly on the
metal airframe. So what do you recommend in this case?
I think most guys with RV's leave the strobe head end of the shielding
unconnected but a friend with an RV-8 using this scheme has some strobe
noise coming through the headset. Have no idea if grounding the strobe
ends of the shielding would make a difference hence the question (he has
the power supply end grounded).
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward stuff...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank |
I dutifully read the List with search term of 'turn & bank'. After 99
postings, I still don't know what brand of Turn & Bank is best. Aircraft
Spruce lists a 2.25in unit for $1187. It has a brushless motor, which
should make it more reliable. Another 2.25 in unit is unlighted, and goes
for $$810: presumably with a brush motor. The 3.2 in units run less at
$662. Anyone know if the smaller units are less reliable? Or more reliable
due to newer manufacture? I need to buy one soon, and old Bob convinced me
that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and the
smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive.
Jim Foerster J400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank |
The backup unit that Lancair Avionics is putting in my panel is a
Mid-Continent 2.25" unit, with a part number of 5550-8340-N5L. Hope
that helps, not sure of price, as it is all bunched in with other flight
instruments.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Foerster
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank
I dutifully read the List with search term of 'turn & bank'. After 99
postings, I still don't know what brand of Turn & Bank is best.
Aircraft
Spruce lists a 2.25in unit for $1187. It has a brushless motor, which
should make it more reliable. Another 2.25 in unit is unlighted, and
goes
for $$810: presumably with a brush motor. The 3.2 in units run less at
$662. Anyone know if the smaller units are less reliable? Or more
reliable
due to newer manufacture? I need to buy one soon, and old Bob convinced
me
that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and
the
smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive.
Jim Foerster J400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby ADI???? |
If by ADI you mean a backup attitude instrument, I would suggest a
refurbished 2" USAF JET Attitude Gyro unit, 501-1131-01. It is 14V, and
under $2000 I believe. From the people I've talked to that have it, it
performs flawlessly.
If that's not what you meant by ADI, ignore.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
& Debi Shannon
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ Standby
ADI????
Hi Bob/All,
I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for
my
Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to
come
by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a
few
28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question
is:
Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an
inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC
converter found here at
http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120
(MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at
http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC
converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but
is a
bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any
issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight?
Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about
this
issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people
start
looking for electric back-up attitude indicators!
Regards,
Brian
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank |
In a message dated 2/4/03 4:35:54 AM Central Standard Time,
jmfpublic(at)attbi.com writes:
> old Bob convinced me
> that I'd rather had the T&B instead of the TC. My panel is tight, and the
> smaller unit would be preferable--and more expensive.
>
Good Morning Jim,
Welcome to the ranks of believers!
Unfortunately, my instrument guru tells me that none of the currently
available crop of 2.25 rate instruments, TC or T&B, are much good. They both
have comparably high failure rates.
My first one lasted about 500 hours and the second one about two thousand
hours. I could tell the first one was going bad by the sound it made. The
second one sounded nice and quiet right up to the day it died. I intend to
take it to my guru to see if we can determine the failure point, but haven't
gotten around to doing so as yet.
I decided to go back to the full size T&B because I think it helps force me
to keep it in my normal scan.
After Itzahk Jacoby was killed at Newark, I tried to analyze my technique and
realized that I had not been checking the rate instrument as much as I
thought I had.
If you are not familiar with Itzahk's accident findings, it appears that both
his HSI and his TC had failed.
If it is a choice between a 2.25 TC or a 2.25 T&B, I would still opt for the
T&B, but none of the smaller instruments seem to be as reliable as the
ancient sized ones.
If you must stick to the little bitty ones, listen to several, if you can,
and pick the one that sounds the smoothest.
Sure wish Jim Younkin was developing his stuff for certificated machines. It
would be nice to be able to get something that was designed after World War
One!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
The illuminating power of a light source depends not only on the overall
light output but on the
solid angle over which it radiates its light. Since an LED is a diffuse
light source, it's tricky to
constrain the light pattern with an external reflector. There are so many
LED fixtures now out
on the market that I would go there first before rolling my own. I'd
suggest checking into
http://www.ledmuseumm.org
one of the many LED enthusiast websites, for guidance, or
http://www.theledlight.com
for LED flashlights, replacement bulbs, fixtures, and raw LEDs.
One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini
Eyeball Cockpit Light
(11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood. Only
works for planes with
roofs.
Another possibility is to use one of the many LED headlamp fixtures
available for campers.
These are usually 2-3 bulb affairs that run on tiny batteries but throw a
lot of light for around $20.
Some have switchable colors.
Suitable gooseneck LED fixtures are available, as are LED "brick" fixtures,
at automotive
customization shops.
Shaun
>
> >
> >I am about to order some LEDs. Roughly how many mcd do I need for the
> >following:
> >
> >1. For a red flood for the cabin if all else fails so I can see in
dim
> >light?
> >2. A white one to provide some light in the baggage compartement
to
> >find something in the dark when the plane is parked?
> >
> >Thanks, Steve.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: DC-DC Converter or AC Inverter w/ |
Standby ADI????
Brian, I'm using a single panel Bluemountain EFIS, and bought a 115 v 400
hz 3 ph AI. I'm powering it with one of Andy Wright's inverters - haven't
installed it yet, so I can't say anything good or bad, but it works nicely
on the bench.
Can I ask where you found the 28V, and how much they run?
>
>
>Hi Bob/All,
>
> I'm looking for a 2" standby ADI as a backup to a dual-EFIS panel for my
>Glasair with a 14V electric system. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to come
>by the 2" standby ADIs at all, much less in a 14v version! I've found a few
>28V versions and a few 115vac, 400hz, 3 phase versions. So my question is:
>Would it be better to use a DC-DC converter for the 28v version or an
>inverter for the AC version. Would there be any problem using the DC-DC
>converter found here at
>http://www.majorpower.com/dctodc/majorvtc_120.html#MajorVTC120
>(MajorVTC120-12-24)? How about the inverter found here at
>http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/inverter.htm ?? The DC-DC
>converter appears to be much lighter than most inverters at 2.5 lbs but is a
>bit "pricey" at $279 versus about $160 for an inverter. Are there any
>issues that would be necessary to consider besides price & weight?
>
>Thanks for any input! I'm sure there will be many others curious about this
>issue as the EFIS units become more economically feasible and people start
>looking for electric back-up attitude indicators!
>
>Regards,
> Brian
>---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
>
>That was it Scott, any suggestions why I would want to
>spend $50 more for 90W as opposed to 60W?
If your strobe tubes will take the extra power (like, they aren't the
Aeroflash wingtip strobes) the 90 w (45 w per side, if you're only running
2) is that much brighter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Deltran On Board Charger |
Gang,
Ran across something interesting. Deltran has 21 oz automatic battery
charger designed for on-board installation, with software tailored for RG
batteries. If you have battery dependent ignitions, you could simply plug
the airplane into an AC outlet anywhere, and always depart for the next
flight with fully charged batteries.
http://www.batterytender.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=46
Dan Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switches and AC |
go to the list archives
how does one do that? (Please forgive my ignorance)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
| Subject: | OT: NAV Radio Squelch |
Hi all,
This is a completely off topic question - I apologize.
The nav volume on my NAV/COM (King KX-155) will not "disengage".
Normally pulling the nav volume knob out turn it "on" and then you turn
the knob to increase/decrease the volume. When my nav volume knob is
"in" and set to minimum volume I can still hear the nav signal. Anyone
know if this is a simple adjustment that I can make, something that a
radio shop can fix, or worse???
Thanks!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Deltran On Board Charger |
>
>Gang,
> Ran across something interesting. Deltran has 21 oz automatic battery
>charger designed for on-board installation, with software tailored for RG
>batteries. If you have battery dependent ignitions, you could simply plug
>the airplane into an AC outlet anywhere, and always depart for the next
>flight with fully charged batteries.
>
>http://www.batterytender.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=46
If you store your airplane for extended periods of time
(many months), some type of smart, float charger may
be beneficial. RG battery self discharge rates
are on the order of 2-3% per MONTH. Further,
most folks who want the ultimate in battery performance
will have a new battery every year. I'll suggest
that time and expense to incorporate such a device
in a modern airplane will have next to zero return
on investment.
My father-in-law has a small fork lift in his
business that got parked for 90 days and the
FLOODED battery ran down and destroyed itself.
It was one of those long, skinny, odd-ball
3EE series batteries that cost about $200
each. He put a new battery in and the fork lift
is up and running. Given that he is trying
to spin this business down, the new battery
is at risk of self-destruction too . . .
I'm building a 13.0 volt float charger to
clip onto the parked fork lift to keep this
from happening again. Now, if I could only
figure out a way to get an RG battery
fitted to the machine . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Huh? Roofs?
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003: The Year of Flight!
Shaun Simpkins said:
>
>
[snip]
> One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini
> Eyeball Cockpit Light
> (11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood.
> Only works for planes with
> roofs.
[snip]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding strobe shield on RV's? |
>
>Bob,
>
>I'm interested in getting the strobe wire shield grounding philosophy
>clarified....understand you recommend for composite aircraft to ground
>the shielding to the strobe head body, whereas on a metal aircraft to
>leave the shield at the strobe head end unconnected. Is that correct?
Yes.
>Now, on the RV series, of course most of the wing is metal BUT the
>wingtip is fiberglass so the strobe body is not mounted directly on the
>metal airframe. So what do you recommend in this case?
Ground the base of the strobe head to the shield . . .
>I think most guys with RV's leave the strobe head end of the shielding
>unconnected but a friend with an RV-8 using this scheme has some strobe
>noise coming through the headset. Have no idea if grounding the strobe
>ends of the shielding would make a difference hence the question (he has
>the power supply end grounded).
Depending on what conditions he is hearing the strobe noise,
grounding the strobe head via shield on wiring may help. Need
more details on kind of noise and conditions under which it
happens. See chapter on noise . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
You need something above your head (a roof) to put the lamp on.
>
>Huh? Roofs?
>
>--
>Larry Bowen
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>2003: The Year of Flight!
>
>Shaun Simpkins said:
>>
>>
>[snip]
>> One builder I know was successful in replacing the lamp in the ACS Mini
>> Eyeball Cockpit Light
>> (11-07800) with a high-intensity red LED for use as a cockpit flood.
>> Only works for planes with
>> roofs.
>[snip]
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switches and AC |
Hi Wendell,
Try the following:
Go to http://www.matronics.com/ the source of some great products and all
the various lists. go to the bottom of the page and click on
http://www.matronics.com/ and follow instructions.
Go to http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html and enter various words
and word combinations and see what you find. Sometimes it takes a bit of
patience to get the info you want. Other times, depending on subject, no
amount of trying will seem to work.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switches and AC
>
> go to the list archives
>
> how does one do that? (Please forgive my ignorance)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Bob,
I got very positive reviews as expected from the Tennessee Valley RV
Builders Group members who attended the Nashville seminar this past
weekend. I hope the TVRVBG bunch didn't embarrass the rest of the class
what with their drooling and other unsociable behavior. ;-)
Any members of this list who have an opportunity to attend one of
'Lectric Bob's seminars really need to consider enrollment. He may be
too modest to say so, but it will be some of the most valuable time and
dollars you can spend while educating yourself about the wiring
architecture on our custom-built planes.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood(at)uvm.edu> |
| Subject: | inexpensive low output alternator |
Bob
I am building a light VFR aircraft (Zenith 601) and I am looking for
an inexpensive low output alternator to connect to my Continental
O-200. I have heard people talk about the alternator from a John Deer
lawn tractor and was looking for any input on using this.
I have used the drive gear from an old generator which I cut down and
I plan to put a pulley on the shaft to drive the alternator.
1 Is using this alternator a reasonable way to go? (in your opinion
or feedback from anyone on the list is welcome.)
2. This is a permanent magnet type alternator, do you know how the
voltage is regulated, and do I need an external regulator?
3. Do you know what RPM range the alternator would need to turn? I
can adjust this by the ratio of the pulleys.
Thanks
Mark Wood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wendell & Jean Durr" <legacy147(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switches and AC |
Thanx. My learning curve is almost vertical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY |
Bob, is this another example of system instability that just needs a cleanup
of bus to voltage regulator, or is it more:
Aircraft is an elderly Pawnee, amps are stable at all times. There are two
voltage cycles, one imposed on the other.
Normally the voltage needle oscillates over 0.5 volt about 3-5 times per
second. If I turn on the strobe, the voltage drops 1.5 volts in time with
firing of the strobe, additonal to the underlying 0.5 cycle. The radios are
noisy all the time. Should this be fixed, if so how?
Regards, David Francis
Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY |
Do you have the Cessna Flashing Beacon? Our Skyhawk did the same thing
until we reversed the connections for the large resistor and the light.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - BUS INSTABILITY
>
>
> Bob, is this another example of system instability that just needs a
cleanup
> of bus to voltage regulator, or is it more:
>
> Aircraft is an elderly Pawnee, amps are stable at all times. There are two
> voltage cycles, one imposed on the other.
>
> Normally the voltage needle oscillates over 0.5 volt about 3-5 times per
> second. If I turn on the strobe, the voltage drops 1.5 volts in time with
> firing of the strobe, additonal to the underlying 0.5 cycle. The radios
are
> noisy all the time. Should this be fixed, if so how?
>
> Regards, David Francis
>
> Email: David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Deltran On Board Charger |
Bob writes:
<>
You may be right, but it's still fun to explore the "why".
Subject is an RV8A with dual Lightspeeds. I've declined to install an APU plug,
as it seems kinda dumb to help crank and launch a battery dependent airplane
with low batteries.
At 21 oz and less than $100, the charger doesn't weigh much more than an APU
plug, or cost much more either. You always have it with you. You know it has
the right charge cycle and rates, unlike the relic in the back of the hanger.
The little green light tells you when you've reached full charge, and it won't
overcharge. It would allow recharging without removing the rear of the RV
baggage compartment.
Return on investment? Fail an alternator on the outbound trip, and after a
full recharge you could fly your battery ignition airplane some reasonable distance
back to home base. I'll bet you would save more than $100 compared to
repairs in a foreign port
No, I haven't thought it all through yet, but it is an interesting idea.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring harness heads up |
I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share
with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem.
I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him
make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a
nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the
transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I
swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom,
the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots.
If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting
on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on
the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It
would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the
problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks.
Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks.
The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is
only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse.
If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had
a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use
a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse
blowing.
So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied
wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because
it comes from a reputable vendor.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
In a message dated 2/4/2003 7:37:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,
khorto1537(at)rogers.com writes:
>
> I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share
> with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem.
>
> I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him
> make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a
> nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the
> transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I
> swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom,
> the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots.
> If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting
> on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on
> the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It
> would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the
> problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks.
>
> Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks.
> The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is
> only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse.
> If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had
> a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use
> a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse
> blowing.
>
> So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied
> wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because
> it comes from a reputable vendor.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
Do tell all of us the name of this vendor so we can steer real clear of them.
I just finished my panel and it was ALOT of work. I am sure everything is
connected correctly. You were smart by checking your harness while it was
still on the bench. You can probably run another 18 ga wire on the outside of
your bundle and disable the smaller wire. I would bet a 7 amp fuse will work
without blowing out though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: switch keyway question |
>
>
>I have several toggle switches that came without anti-rotation washers.
>Does anyone know where the washers can be purchased seperately?
>
>Vince Welch
>N327W
Send me your address and how many you need . . .
I'll mail them to you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
>
>In a message dated 2/4/2003 7:37:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>khorto1537(at)rogers.com writes:
>
>
>Do tell all of us the name of this vendor so we can steer real clear of them.
>I just finished my panel and it was ALOT of work. I am sure everything is
>connected correctly. You were smart by checking your harness while it was
>still on the bench. You can probably run another 18 ga wire on the outside of
>your bundle and disable the smaller wire. I would bet a 7 amp fuse will work
>without blowing out though.
>
I'd rather not name names. This vendor has lots of satisfied
customers, and I have never heard anyone else complain about a
problem.
Any vendor can screw up a wiring harness. So no matter who you buy
from you should give the harness a good check out on the bench. That
was really the point of my message, rather than to skewer a vendor
whose employee had a bad day.
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Deltran On Board Charger |
>
>Bob writes:
><modern airplane will have next to zero return on investment.>>
>
> You may be right, but it's still fun to explore the "why".
>
> Subject is an RV8A with dual Lightspeeds. I've declined to install an
> APU plug, as it seems kinda dumb to help crank and launch a battery
> dependent airplane with low batteries.
>
> At 21 oz and less than $100, the charger doesn't weigh much more than
> an APU plug, or cost much more either. You always have it with you. You
> know it has the right charge cycle and rates, unlike the relic in the
> back of the hanger. The little green light tells you when you've reached
> full charge, and it won't overcharge. It would allow recharging without
> removing the rear of the RV baggage compartment.
>
> Return on investment? Fail an alternator on the outbound trip, and
> after a full recharge you could fly your battery ignition airplane some
> reasonable distance back to home base. I'll bet you would save more than
> $100 compared to repairs in a foreign port
>
> No, I haven't thought it all through yet, but it is an interesting idea.
If you were flying a Ford gear driven alternator on a C-172
fitted with a flooded battery that was 3-4 years old, then
I would agree, you need everything going for you that you
can get. That same $100 will by two years worth of
batteries for a yearly change-out cycle that would
(if the airplane is flown every two months or so)
guarantee a level of reliability that all the chargers
in the world cannot bestow on a Cessna.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Gotta pack up again . . . |
RAC is sending me out to Whippany, NJ for the rest of
the week. See you all Saturday morning. . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: inexpensive low output alternator |
>
>Bob
>I am building a light VFR aircraft (Zenith 601) and I am looking for
>an inexpensive low output alternator to connect to my Continental
>O-200. I have heard people talk about the alternator from a John Deer
>lawn tractor and was looking for any input on using this.
>
>I have used the drive gear from an old generator which I cut down and
>I plan to put a pulley on the shaft to drive the alternator.
>
>1 Is using this alternator a reasonable way to go? (in your opinion
>or feedback from anyone on the list is welcome.)
>
>2. This is a permanent magnet type alternator, do you know how the
>voltage is regulated, and do I need an external regulator?
>
>3. Do you know what RPM range the alternator would need to turn? I
>can adjust this by the ratio of the pulleys.
If you're proposing a belt-drive adapter, then the
Nipon-Denso 40A machine would be my choice (B&C L-40).
Unless you are experienced at modifying modern
alternator to accept external regulators, consider
using the built in regulator with external OV protection
as shown in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
>
>I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share
>with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem.
>
>I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him
>make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a
>nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the
>transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I
>swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom,
>the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots.
>If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting
>on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on
>the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It
>would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the
>problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks.
>
>Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks.
>The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is
>only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse.
>If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had
>a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use
>a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse
>blowing.
An 20AWG wire would rise 10 degrees C at 7A continuous . .
which never happens in a transceiver. The 10A protection
recommended is a bit hefty, a 7A fuse (80+ watts into the radio
during transmit) would probably be fine too. There was no
danger imposed by running a 10A fuse in this case, it just
means that the wire gets a bit hotter before the fuse opens
but in no way represents a threat to the wire bundle.
>So, please pay close attention to the details of any vendor supplied
>wiring harness. Don't simply assume that it must be OK just because
>it comes from a reputable vendor.
Sounds like a case of multiple dyslexic pin insertions.
Pretty easy to do. Disappointing tho that they didn't
do their own pin-to-pin ringout of the harness.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Best LED color for preserving night vision |
I'm designing a ceiling mounted headphone jack with integral LEDs for cabin
light. It will have both a white LED and another color. Initially, I was
thinking I would use red, but I vaguely recall that the military has
determined that another color, perhaps green, was better as long as this was
kept at a low level. A brief Google search found at least one reference
confirming this vague notion. http://www.corvus.com/kniffen.htm is an
astronomy reference.
I intend to have the LEDs on Bob's dimmer, fed through a 4 volt Zener and
series resistor, as was mentioned recently on this list. Each LED will have
a double throw switch, for full brightness, or for dimmer level power. The
green LED is wired for full voltage as well as dimmer power for those times
when the master is off, and the plane is parked, needing some amount of
cabin light. I will make up a pc board with the connector for the wire
harness. I can find pc mount 1/4 in jacks, but not the slightly smaller
microphone jack. I have not decided whether to use DB9 or DB15 connectors,
or just use FASTON tabs on the pc board.
Anyone have any thoughts on color choice?
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
>
>
>>
>>I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share
>>with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem.
>>
>>I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him
>>make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a
>>nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the
>>transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I
>>swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom,
>>the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots.
>>If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting
>>on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on
>>the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It
>>would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the
>>problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks.
>>
>>Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks.
>>The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is
>>only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse.
>>If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had
>>a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use
>>a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse
>>blowing.
>
> An 20AWG wire would rise 10 degrees C at 7A continuous . .
> which never happens in a transceiver. The 10A protection
> recommended is a bit hefty, a 7A fuse (80+ watts into the radio
> during transmit) would probably be fine too. There was no
> danger imposed by running a 10A fuse in this case, it just
> means that the wire gets a bit hotter before the fuse opens
> but in no way represents a threat to the wire bundle.
>
I appreciate your input Bob. This is a GNS-430, and that "Com" power
wire seems to do more than just power the com transceiver. I didn't
hook it up when I first tried to check the unit out on the bench, as
I didn't have a com antenna, and the complete display remained blank.
Once I hooked the "Com" power line up I was able to bring the whole
unit to life. It drew about 3a just sitting there doing nothing.
Garmin recommends a 10a fuse. I'm hesitant to drop down to a 7a
fuse, as I certainly don't want to set myself up for a nuisance trip
issue. I'm also hesitant to bust the wire size recommendations in
AC43.13-1B - I studied them last night and I can't see a way to
justify a 10a fuse, unless I run this power line outside the bundle,
all by itself. I'll probably get a local avionics shop to replace
the 20 AWG wire with 18 AWG.
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Best LED color for preserving night vision |
> I'm designing a ceiling mounted headphone jack with integral LEDs for
> cabin
> light. It will have both a white LED and another color. Initially, I
was
> thinking I would use red, but I vaguely recall that the military has
> determined that another color, perhaps green, was better as long as
this
> was
> kept at a low level. A brief Google search found at least one
reference
> confirming this vague notion. http://www.corvus.com/kniffen.htm is an
> astronomy reference.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on color choice?
>
> Jim Foerster
I think that the military prefers green for use with night vision
goggles.
See:
http://www.seitzinc.com/cat_1.htm
http://www.seitzinc.com/cat_2.htm
I'm not sure which color would be better for reading charts. My guess is
red.
Good luck,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
In a message dated 2/5/2003 5:16:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
khorto1537(at)rogers.com writes:
>
> I appreciate your input Bob. This is a GNS-430, and that "Com" power
> wire seems to do more than just power the com transceiver. I didn't
> hook it up when I first tried to check the unit out on the bench, as
> I didn't have a com antenna, and the complete display remained blank.
> Once I hooked the "Com" power line up I was able to bring the whole
> unit to life. It drew about 3a just sitting there doing nothing.
>
> Garmin recommends a 10a fuse. I'm hesitant to drop down to a 7a
> fuse, as I certainly don't want to set myself up for a nuisance trip
> issue. I'm also hesitant to bust the wire size recommendations in
> AC43.13-1B - I studied them last night and I can't see a way to
> justify a 10a fuse, unless I run this power line outside the bundle,
> all by itself. I'll probably get a local avionics shop to replace
> the 20 AWG wire with 18 AWG.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
If you have a 430 then you spent a fair amount of money at that unnamed
avionics shop. I am curious ?????? Why not just have them fix this big mess
you have on your bench? Ben Haas. N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Best LED color for preserving night vision |
It is almost impossible to see everything on a chart (especially all that
stuff printed in the FAA's favorite color: magenta) when using a red light.
Green, however, makes it easy to read the charts.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Best LED color for preserving night vision
> I'm designing a ceiling mounted headphone jack with integral LEDs for
> cabin
> light. It will have both a white LED and another color. Initially, I
was
> thinking I would use red, but I vaguely recall that the military has
> determined that another color, perhaps green, was better as long as
this
> was
> kept at a low level. A brief Google search found at least one
reference
> confirming this vague notion. http://www.corvus.com/kniffen.htm is an
> astronomy reference.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on color choice?
>
> Jim Foerster
I think that the military prefers green for use with night vision
goggles.
See:
http://www.seitzinc.com/cat_1.htm
http://www.seitzinc.com/cat_2.htm
I'm not sure which color would be better for reading charts. My guess is
red.
Good luck,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness heads up |
Kevin;
I am sure you have checked the wiring schematic carefully but may I suggest
you look for a duplicated or two line power feed ? Some avionics (the King
KY-97 comm, for one) use two wire power feeds to spread the power going into
the unit over two connector pins for reasons of conductor sizing, etc. The
two leads go back to a single breaker in my case but could go to individual
ones to ensure both wires are protected by a suitably sized breaker. (As
Bob says often enough, the breaker protects the wire not the radio, etc.)
Just a thought. If its a single wire feed, you may be looking at going to a
larger gauge wire as you say.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring harness heads up
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I've just had a bad wiring harness experience that I want to share
> >>with you, as it highlights a potential safety problem.
> >>
> >>I bought my avionics from a popular avionics vendor, and I had him
> >>make up the wiring harness. Well, this wiring harness has been a
> >>nightmare. Two pins were swapped on the transponder, which meant the
> >>transponder and altitude encode wouldn't talk to each other. I
> >>swapped the pins and everything is OK there now. On the intercom,
> >>the PTT and mic wires were swapped between the Com 1 and Com 2 spots.
> >>If I had selected Com 1 to transmit, I would have been transmitting
> >>on Com 2, but listening on Com 1. OK, I can fix that. I found it on
> >>the bench when I decided to check every wire with an ohmmeter. It
> >>would have been a royal PITA to find and fix if I hadn't found the
> >>problem until I was doing post-installation functional checks.
> >>
> >>Well tonight I found the problem that has stopped me in my tracks.
> >>The Com 1 power line is supposed to get a 10a fuse, but the wire is
> >>only 20 AWG. It needs to be 18 AWG if it is going to get a 10a fuse.
> >>If I had simply followed the notes the vendor sent me, and I ever had
> >>a short, I could have a smoking wire before the fuse blew. If I use
> >>a 7a fuse to match the wire I could be looking at nuisance fuse
> >>blowing.
> >
> > An 20AWG wire would rise 10 degrees C at 7A continuous . .
> > which never happens in a transceiver. The 10A protection
> > recommended is a bit hefty, a 7A fuse (80+ watts into the radio
> > during transmit) would probably be fine too. There was no
> > danger imposed by running a 10A fuse in this case, it just
> > means that the wire gets a bit hotter before the fuse opens
> > but in no way represents a threat to the wire bundle.
> >
>
> I appreciate your input Bob. This is a GNS-430, and that "Com" power
> wire seems to do more than just power the com transceiver. I didn't
> hook it up when I first tried to check the unit out on the bench, as
> I didn't have a com antenna, and the complete display remained blank.
> Once I hooked the "Com" power line up I was able to bring the whole
> unit to life. It drew about 3a just sitting there doing nothing.
>
> Garmin recommends a 10a fuse. I'm hesitant to drop down to a 7a
> fuse, as I certainly don't want to set myself up for a nuisance trip
> issue. I'm also hesitant to bust the wire size recommendations in
> AC43.13-1B - I studied them last night and I can't see a way to
> justify a 10a fuse, unless I run this power line outside the bundle,
> all by itself. I'll probably get a local avionics shop to replace
> the 20 AWG wire with 18 AWG.
>
> Kevin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | solid state gyro & avionics master relay |
Has anyone seen the solid state gyro from Crossbow? Here is a link to them.
http://www.xbow.com/General_info/gyro_guide.htm
Does anyone know anything about Tiger Avionics? I installed one of their
avionics master relays in my plane about 16 years ago. I would like to have
some documentation on it. I'm considering taking it out and/or installing an
E-buss now. I believe they were located in Phoenix.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding strobe shield on RV's? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Hmmm...interesting...a quick survey of the RV List shows pretty much everybody
is grounding the shield only at the power supply end. Funny thing is that some
folks get no noise at all, and others have problems. But the fact that there
are some who do NOT have noise even with the shields connected only at the power
supply end implies that the connection at the strobe head is not critical
for the RV series, and there's something else happening to cause the noise that
some people are experiencing. Given the variety of routing and wiring techniques
used in each individual aircraft it may be difficult to trace the source
of strobe noise...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward...
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding strobe shield on RV's?
>
>Bob,
>
>I'm interested in getting the strobe wire shield grounding philosophy
>clarified....understand you recommend for composite aircraft to ground
>the shielding to the strobe head body, whereas on a metal aircraft to
>leave the shield at the strobe head end unconnected. Is that correct?
Yes.
>Now, on the RV series, of course most of the wing is metal BUT the
>wingtip is fiberglass so the strobe body is not mounted directly on the
>metal airframe. So what do you recommend in this case?
Ground the base of the strobe head to the shield . . .
>I think most guys with RV's leave the strobe head end of the shielding
>unconnected but a friend with an RV-8 using this scheme has some strobe
>noise coming through the headset. Have no idea if grounding the strobe
>ends of the shielding would make a difference hence the question (he has
>the power supply end grounded).
Depending on what conditions he is hearing the strobe noise,
grounding the strobe head via shield on wiring may help. Need
more details on kind of noise and conditions under which it
happens. See chapter on noise . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night vision |
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 03:24 AM, James Foerster wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on color choice?
>
> Jim Foerster
>
>
HI Jim.
You'd think this choice would be fairly obvious, but then you' d
wrong.... ;-)
I have looked into this a few times and found conflicting
recommendations.
Older literature (and the AIM, last time I looked this up there)
suggest red, and one reason for the sometimes odd color choices on FAA
charts is to make everything at least legible under red light.
It turns out that, although theoretically sound, the color of light
probably doesn't have any significant impact on the eye's dark
adaptation.
A (minor) disadvantage of red light or gauges is that as we age, it is
harder to see red objects up close. This is because red light is a
longer wavelength, and is therefore refracted less strongly than
shorter wavelengths. If you have a need reading glasses and have a
high quality inkjet, try printing some words in the smallest font
possible in red and then adjacent in blue or green. You'll notice that
the green/blue objects can be a little closer and still be sharp.
Blues/greens (shorter wavelengths) will scatter more easily and cause
more glare if you have any opacity or irregularity in your eyes or
correction (e.g. cataracts, astigmatism, dirty lenses, etc.)
The dark adapted eye has its peak sensitivity at a blue-green
wavelength (one of the reasons we are all slightly more nearsighted at
night than during the day)
AFAIK current military fashion is blue-green, but this is for
compatibility with the current technology night vision goggles.
The most important consideration, really, is what you like. I have
owned cars with blue/green electroluminescent gauges and didn't
particularly like them, although they were very easy to read. I
currently have a car with white dash lights, and one with
reddish-orange lights. Both are perfectly functional, but I like the
reddish-orange much better.
Bottom line is, pick what you like, make sure it's pointed at what you
want to be able to read, and make sure the dimmer is effective....
JFF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | solid state gyro & avionics master relay |
The crossbow unit, the 500, is what is supplied with the Chelton/Sierra
EFIS. Despite a few early troubles, I have heard great things about
their latest version. When properly calibrated, accordingly to all the
test pilots at Lancair, it hangs right in there with the laser ring gyro
control unit.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KahnSG(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: solid state gyro & avionics master relay
Has anyone seen the solid state gyro from Crossbow? Here is a link to
them.
http://www.xbow.com/General_info/gyro_guide.htm
Does anyone know anything about Tiger Avionics? I installed one of their
avionics master relays in my plane about 16 years ago. I would like to
have
some documentation on it. I'm considering taking it out and/or
installing an
E-buss now. I believe they were located in Phoenix.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)pilot.msu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: solid state gyro & avionics master relay |
Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>The crossbow unit, the 500, is what is supplied with the Chelton/Sierra
>EFIS. Despite a few early troubles, I have heard great things about
>their latest version. When properly calibrated, accordingly to all the
>test pilots at Lancair, it hangs right in there with the laser ring gyro
>control unit.
>
>
>
And costs $7,000 without a display. You can get software to drive
your PDA with it..
John Mireley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
Hi all.
I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm considering the EXPBUS
from Control Vision to be the "heart" of my system. One of the local veterans
in the field adviced against it however (he has no personal experience with
the EXPBUS though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if something would
go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to trouble-shoot - and most likely
have it sent across the pond for repairs.... With of course a longtime
grounding of the A/C as a result.
Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest and most well
arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been there, done that:
what's your experience/advice??
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Loram <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | solid state gyro & avionics master relay |
Crossbow is quoting single unit quantities of the AHRS500 at $12,000, and
the less precise AHRS4000 at $7,000. They are working on less spendy two
axis units (without the magnetometer) for around $2000. Whether they'll ever
see the light of day, remains to be determined. They are aware of the
GA/Experimental market and are interested.
-john-
john(at)loram.org
www.loram.org
-----Original Message-----
From: John Mireley [mailto:mireley(at)pilot.msu.edu]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: solid state gyro & avionics master relay
Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>The crossbow unit, the 500, is what is supplied with the Chelton/Sierra
>EFIS. Despite a few early troubles, I have heard great things about
>their latest version. When properly calibrated, accordingly to all the
>test pilots at Lancair, it hangs right in there with the laser ring gyro
>control unit.
>
>
>
And costs $7,000 without a display. You can get software to drive
your PDA with it..
John Mireley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring harness follow up |
I reported yesterday about some problems I had with the vendor
supplied wiring harnesses that I purchased with my avionics. There
were several pairs of wires that were on the wrong pins, and one
power line was only 20 AWG even though it was supposed to get a 10a
fuse.
I received many e-mails, on and off the lists, so please understand
if I don't respond to each one individually.
Today I called the vendor to talk to him. He was very cooperative
and easy to deal with. He said that his employees are supposed to
"ohm out" each harness, but that something obviously went wrong with
my harness. He offered to take the harness back, personally fix all
the problems, and to give it a complete inspection - no charge.
Power line - I originally was concerned that I could be looking at a
possible smoke event if the 20 AWG power line ever shorted. However,
Bob Nuckolls responded that although a 10a fuse was a bit much for a
20 AWG wire, and the wire would get hotter than desired if it ever
shorted, it should not lead to a smoke event.
I discussed this issue with the vendor. He explained that the Garmin
specified 18 AWG wire requires an extra long pin to make room for a
larger crimp area. In his opinion, this long pin has a real risk of
later shorting out against other wires in the connector. He
discussed the issue with his local FAA folks, and convinced them to
allow him to use 20 AWG wire.
Note - this power line "Y's" to go to two pins, so it should be
possible to use 20 AWG wire from the pins to the Y, and 18 AWG wire
the rest of the way. I didn't think to bring this up with the vendor
while I had him on the phone, but I requested he do this in the
letter I sent with the harnesses.
Many people wanted me to name the vendor, as they seemed to want to
stay away from him. That was not the point of my messages. Even
with the issues I had with my wiring harness I am still glad I chose
the vendor I did. Any vendor can make a mistake. The important
thing is how they deal with the mistake.
My story was intended to advise that wiring harnesses should be
completely checked out on the bench before installing them in the
aircraft. Several of my problems would not have been noticed until I
was doing the functional checks after installation, and it would have
been very difficult to find and correct the problems with harness
embedded in the aircraft. Don't just assume that any vendor supplied
part is good without inspecting it.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
If I remember correctly the Facet pump needs 1.2 Amps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Loram <johnl(at)loram.org> |
| Subject: | Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
The A/C Spruce catalog says 1amp max. But I don't know if that's peak or
RMS. I'd call Facet.
regards, -john-
john(at)loram.org
www.loram.org
-----Original Message-----
From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com [mailto:BillRVSIX(at)aol.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
Bill,
I have a Facet , the inrush current on switch-on is 1.2 Amps, it stabilises
on 0.9 Amps during continouse run (wet), this on the Batterie only, so with
13.8 it might draw 10% more (if I remember Bobs advice correctly).
I do not know, what your pumps type is, mine is a Facet 40108.
Hope it helpes
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
>
> The A/C Spruce catalog says 1amp max. But I don't know if that's peak or
> RMS. I'd call Facet.
>
> regards, -john-
>
> john(at)loram.org
> www.loram.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com [mailto:BillRVSIX(at)aol.com]
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
>
>
> Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
> draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit breaker
> size. Thanks
>
> Bill Higgins
> Pembroke Ma.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
If it's the same little 14V facet pump I'm using, it draws .98 amps
while pumping, .76 when empty. Hope that helps.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillRVSIX(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit
breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Avionics Systems" <hk53(at)his.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness follow up |
Just a little additional info here. The longer pins that work with the 18 gauge
wire could potentially short against each other, but nothing would happen since
it would be ground touching ground or power touching power. All the other
pins are inside the connector and could not be affected. Also Garmin supplies
insulating tubing with each GNS-430 kit to insulate those longer pins from touching
each other. We use the longer pins and have never had a problem.
David Buckwalter
Avionics Systems, LLC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/5/2003 4:20:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com writes:
> Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest and most
> well arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been there,
> done that: what's your experience/advice??
>
> Hans
>
Hans, I don't know how much you personally respect AeroElectric Bob but
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
for his in depth
critical review of the EXPBUS.=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0 And=A0 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
for more follow
thru discussions to this review online.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank |
Shannon
I found the list price of your TnB off there web page. $1776.00 I about
fell off my chare. It is made by a instrument company , General Design, but
I can't make Google find it. It does find a list of aviation company with
General Design listed, so I am sure they are for real. Just NO web sight.
( just a little follow-up)
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Best Brand of 2.25 in Turn & Bank
>
> The backup unit that Lancair Avionics is putting in my panel is a
> Mid-Continent 2.25" unit, with a part number of 5550-8340-N5L. Hope
> that helps, not sure of price, as it is all bunched in with other flight
> instruments.
>
> ---
> Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Huw & Rachel" <huwrachel(at)earthlink.net> |
Hans wrote on 02/05/03 >>>>
>>I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm considering the
EXPBUS
>>from Control Vision to be the "heart" of my system. One of the local
veterans
>>in the field adviced against it however (he has no personal experience
with
>>the EXPBUS though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if something
would
>>go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to trouble-shoot - and most
likely
>>have it sent across the pond for repairs.... With of course a longtime
>>grounding of the A/C as a result.
Hans
There is a lot of discussion in the archives of this list about the EXPBUS,
but I doubt that anyone has enough airtime with the device to give you
advice. I am planning to install an Eggenfellner Subaru in my Glastar and
the recommended electrical system for that installation is based around the
EXPBUS. This is mainly because it supports automatic switching between
batteries in a dual battery setup. I strongly disagree with the choice of
the EXPBUS not on grounds of its technical capabilities, because I don't
have the knowledge to argue, but on its repairability. I keep hoping that
Bob or someone else will produce a wiring diagram that we can pick up and
use for building. That diagram would of course be based on standard
components available from a number of sources.
Meanwhile I read Bob's book and watch here in the hope that I can find an
alternate way forward.
from
Huw Williams
huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
There has been a lot of dialog on this list about the unit.
First some upfront comments.
1. I am using (planning to use) both this approach (EXPBUS) in a plane and
Bob's dual/dual approach in another.
2. I like BOTH approaches. For me they solve different problems.
3. I am *happy* with the EXPBUS installation. So far there have been no
problems with it (~75hrs)
I installed one in the RV6 my partner and I are currently flying and plan a
different route for another RV I have under construction. I think both
approaches are just fine, you need to decide what is important to you.
Some of *my* logic follows. It may not apply to anyone else's way of
thinking (for either case).
RV with EXPBUS
1. Wanted a contained system that allowed the "connections to be made" to a
reserved space already.
2. Works well for straightforward systems
3. If anything goes wrong, the unit can be replaced (Some may think the
plane has to be down if *anything* fails but I didn't see it that way. If it
was a major failure, then I would try to get them to send me a loaner while
it was being repaired.
RV without EXPBUS
1. I plan for a more "complex" (please note the quotes) system. Basically
Bob's Z14 I think. All electric. Dual alternator. Dual battery. I think the
Eggenfellner (sp?) Subaru systems use the EXPBUS for this but I will be
going the Aeroelectric way.
2. Z14 handles the issues I have for the second RV that I did not have for
the first.
There is a lot of solid logic and thinking behind the designs that Bob has
made available to us over the years. It is also a matter of what you really
feel comfortable working with and then flying behind.
On the other hand some people feel more comfortable with a "box" they feel
is straightforward, pre-tested and built by someone else. To each his own.
I have seen many planes with the EXPBUS but you don't hear that much about
it hear because we (me included) on this list tend to more so disciples of
the "Aeroelectric Way" (for good reason).
All I am saying is that there is room for both approaches and if you want to
dicuss a **specific** question about your potential installation, feel free
to contact me off list.
James
p.s. Another couple of comments I forgot to add.
1. You will need to take a minute and walk through the EXPBUS design
philosophy just like you need to do with Bob's.
2. Control Vision would do themselves and us all a big favor if they
included a few more "application notes" ... a kinda "here's how you would
hook it up for A, here's how for B and here's how for C. The system has a
lot more flexibility than meets the eye, but you have tostudy it to realize
that.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
> Hi all.
>
> I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm
> considering the EXPBUS from Control Vision to be the "heart" of
> my system. One of the local veterans in the field adviced against
> it however (he has no personal experience with the EXPBUS
> though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if something
> would go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to
> trouble-shoot - and most likely have it sent across the pond for
> repairs.... With of course a longtime grounding of the A/C as a result.
>
> Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the
> simplest and most well arranged system for the homebuilder. So -
> to all who has been there, done that: what's your experience/advice??
>
> Hans
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Huw raises an important point ... repairability.
And personally I think this might be the most relevant point.
What one needs to do though is a failure mode analysis ... what is likely to
fail when and how and what will its impact be on my flight. (We have all
heard that here before).
Basic things that could fail ..
Mechanical Switches
"Connections"
"Polyfuse Switch" (name??)
Capacitors, diodes in circuit
Mechanical Switches ...
Changing the switch is straightforward.
Also, it is possible to use the SAME switches that you would otherwise use
if that was a concern.
Connections ...
The same Fast-on (name??) tabs used here.
Polyfuse Switch ...
If one of these fails, you have the ability (on some later models I believe)
to insert a standard fuse and simply loose the "reset" capability.
Caps, diodes etc ....
This would be more problematic.
Now you need to ask what components of you panel would be taken out.
THere are some specific things that I did to try to minimize the downside
here. Don't have it all before me but I would be willing to **TRY** to
answer a specific question about the installation.
James
By the way ....
I have **NO** conection to CV other than being a customer.
I believe their system "works" for some people and not for others
Your mileage may vary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Huw &
> Rachel
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
>
>
> Hans wrote on 02/05/03 >>>>
>
> >>I'll soon start on the electric system for my Europa. I'm
> considering the
> EXPBUS
> >>from Control Vision to be the "heart" of my system. One of the local
> veterans
> >>in the field adviced against it however (he has no personal experience
> with
> >>the EXPBUS though). He said that it looked vulnerable - and, if
> something
> would
> >>go wrong with it, it would take a lot of work to trouble-shoot
> - and most
> likely
> >>have it sent across the pond for repairs.... With of course a longtime
> >>grounding of the A/C as a result.
>
> Hans
>
> There is a lot of discussion in the archives of this list about
> the EXPBUS,
> but I doubt that anyone has enough airtime with the device to give you
> advice. I am planning to install an Eggenfellner Subaru in my
> Glastar and
> the recommended electrical system for that installation is based
> around the
> EXPBUS. This is mainly because it supports automatic switching between
> batteries in a dual battery setup. I strongly disagree with the choice of
> the EXPBUS not on grounds of its technical capabilities, because I don't
> have the knowledge to argue, but on its repairability. I keep hoping that
> Bob or someone else will produce a wiring diagram that we can pick up and
> use for building. That diagram would of course be based on standard
> components available from a number of sources.
>
> Meanwhile I read Bob's book and watch here in the hope that I can find an
> alternate way forward.
>
> from
> Huw Williams
> huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
Just a minor point of clarification....the Eggenfellner EXPBUS design is
for dual batteries, one alternator. I didn't use it...went with a
basic Bob design, mainly because I already had most of the parts before
deciding on the Eggenfellner engine. Wonder if using EXPBUS would have
toned down my miserable radio noise....NAH!
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | brucem(at)olypen.com |
Hans,
The EXPBUS uses poly fuses (solid state, self-resetting devices).
See the AeroElectric book and website for some strong negative
opinions on these.
Regards, Bruce
McGregor
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail.
http://www.olypen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bill, I asked this question to Craig Weber, Facet's engineering rep, a while back
and the answer for the pump Vans sells (model # 40108) is 1.4 amps. I went
with the "beer can" style pump instead on my RV, not because it draws less current
(1 A) but because I like the inlet filter screen and it also fit in the
wingroot where I wanted to mount it.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward....
------------------------------------------------------
Mark,
The 478360 draws 1 amp max. The 40108 draws 1.4 amps max.
Regards
Craig
> ----------
> From:
> menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com[SMTP:menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:40 PM
> To: Weber, Craig
> Subject: RE: Interrupter Fuel Pump Question
>
>
> Hi Craig,
>
> Can you tell me the max current or power requirements for the 478360
> interrupter fuel pump (@12 VDC)?
> Also for comparison sake, what is the power req'ts for the solid state
> 40108 pump (also 12 VDC)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
Hello dose any have any idea how many amps the Facet fuel pump from vans
draws. Working on bus load analysis and need to figure out circuit breaker
size. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Pembroke Ma.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | CarlingTech PWM Dimmer (long) |
Listers,
Yesterday I received an electronic dimmer from Carling Technologies that
was previously talked about on the Aeroelectric List. (see
http://www.carlingtech.com/products/switches/ld_series.asp ). This is a
digital PWM circuit that is capable of 10A of current, with an output that
is adjustable from 0-100% duty cycle. (i.e., full OFF to full ON. 50% duty
cycle would essentially be a square wave..). It has a three wire interface:
+12VDC, Output, and Ground, with 1/4" fast-on tabs, so it's real simple to
hook up. In my case, the dimmer power and all lights are brought to a
terminal strip, so running a twisted pair of #18 wire to the dimmer, and
another #18 wire from the dimmer to the avionics common ground, only took a
few minutes to complete. (I did not mount it into the panel yet..) The part
I evaluated is a LD3A1CC1-3AAFE-1FC. (12v, 10A, 11 step, Red led labeling,
black case, rocker switch, "Bright/DIM" labeling. See the Carling web site
for other versions).
When I first heard of this device, my main concern centered about the
interference it might cause to the IFR panel I'm installing in my new RV-6A.
In a previous IFR RV-6A, I had designed and installed a PWM style dimmer,
and had to take special care to avoid EMI that would negate it's usefulness
in an avionics panel. Among other design issues, I found that by using
relatively low switching frequencies, controlling the rising and falling
edges of the switching waveform, using proper bypass and grounding
techniques, and using twisted pairs for power leads, the EMI was issues
were eliminated.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that these issues have been properly
addressed in the Carling LD-Series dimmer circuit. Even with the dimmer next
to the antenna of a COMM radio, I was not able to detect any significant EMI
on either the COMM or VOR/ILS frequency ranges. I was also not able to
detect any perceptible additional noise in an adjacent AM radio over the
entire AM band, so it shouldn't effect ADF's. With the dimmer near it's
intended mounting location, I couldn't detect any interference on any of the
radios. (see
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com.01.19.200
3/ for an earlier picture of my panel..) Any noise I was able to detect, at
any test condition, was only with the radio squelch open and the audio
turned up. Even this was barely perceptible. While this test was done in the
shop, and not out in the quiet electrical domain of an open field, I'm
relatively confident that the device will not cause any electrical
interference to the avionics.
Putting an oscilloscope on the dimmers output revealed a 200 Hz PWM
waveform with smooth rise/fall time transitions and no spikes or overshoots
when driving a load of standard incandescent bulbs and some LED's (i.e., no
additional inductive loads...). Switch turn off times were about 60 uSec (0V
- 12 Vdc) with a max Dv/Dt of 9V/50 uSec. Switch turn on times were a bit
faster at 20 uSec (12 Vdc - 0V) with a max Dv/Dt of -9V/15uSec. The PWM duty
cycle was adjustable from 0-100% in .5mS steps. With a 5 mS period for the
frequency, that results in 11 steps over the full range of control
(including OFF). For some, this might not be fine enough control. But
turning out the lights in the shop, and playing around with the dimmer while
sitting in the cockpit, convinced me that it should do the job for me.
According to Carling Technologies, the dimmer retail cost is about $35.00.
I'm trying to get a quote from a local distributor for cost and delivery
times......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)pilot.msu.edu> |
| Subject: | OT: Cockpit floors could become 'invisible' to assist |
pilots in landing.
I can't imagine trying a landing while looking straight down at the runway.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030207/ap_on_fe_st/japan_invisible_2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 01/07/03 |
If I separate the Firewall Ground Block and the Panel Ground Block on an
Aluminum airplane (RV-9A), do I need to connect the two of them with a 2AWG
wire or is the firewall that they are rivetted to sufficent ground
connection between them?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Schiff" <tomschiff(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | OT: Cockpit floors could become 'invisible' to |
assist pilots in landing.
I remember talking to a WW II ace his squadron lost a number of planes
because it was possible to look down and see the runway through the open
gear doors. In doing so the pilots lost the perspective of where they
were.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Mireley
Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: Cockpit floors could become 'invisible'
to assist pilots in landing.
I can't imagine trying a landing while looking straight down at the
runway.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030207/ap_on_fe_st/j
apan_invisible_2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 01/07/03 |
Jim -
Buy the combo ground block from B&C and the hardware comes with it to join them
together. You drill holes thru the firewall and mount them back-to-back with the
studs, washers and nuts. The studs act like a wire/busbar.
John
2/7/2003 2:54:41 PM, "Jim Pack" wrote:
>
>If I separate the Firewall Ground Block and the Panel Ground Block on an
>Aluminum airplane (RV-9A), do I need to connect the two of them with a 2AWG
>wire or is the firewall that they are rivetted to sufficent ground
>connection between them?
>
>- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
I am using the B&C Ground Block, however, the space on the engine site where
it is best placed, does not correspond to the space on the cabin side. They
need to be offset by a foot. So, I have riveted the two sides into the most
appropriate place for the application on the respective sides of the
firewall. Is that OK or do I need to wire them together with 2AWG?
- Jim
>
> Jim -
>
> Buy the combo ground block from B&C and the hardware comes with it to join
them
> together. You drill holes thru the firewall and mount them back-to-back
with the
> studs, washers and nuts. The studs act like a wire/busbar.
>
> John
> > >If I separate the Firewall Ground Block and the Panel Ground Block on
an
> >Aluminum airplane (RV-9A), do I need to connect the two of them with a
2AWG
> >wire or is the firewall that they are rivetted to sufficent ground
> >connection between them?
> >
> >- Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | OV circuit breaker tripping |
Bob-
I have an auto conversion engine with nippodenso alternator. It has an
internal voltage regulator. After a really bad overheating condition, the
OV circuit breaker is tripping every time the engine starts running.
Changing to the new "yellow lead" module didn't help. Can I assume the
regulator is faulty. If so, can I run the wire from the alternator into an
aftermarket regulator to fix this problem or do I need to purchase a whole
new alternator? Thanks.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Zenith 601HDS w/Stratus Subaru engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | voltage regulators |
Can any one tell me where they usually mount voltage regulators in a canard
pusher? I seems with three or four wires needing to go to the panel, warning
light, panel ground, and only one going to the alternator that it would be
best to put it in the nose. Tim Rhodenbaugh, Velocity XL, timrhod(at)aol.com
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage regulators |
>
>Can any one tell me where they usually mount voltage regulators in a canard
>pusher? I seems with three or four wires needing to go to the panel, warning
>light, panel ground, and only one going to the alternator that it would be
>best to put it in the nose. Tim Rhodenbaugh, Velocity XL, timrhod(at)aol.com
>Thanks
That would be my choice.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OV circuit breaker tripping |
>
>Bob-
> I have an auto conversion engine with nippodenso alternator. It has an
>internal voltage regulator. After a really bad overheating condition, the
>OV circuit breaker is tripping every time the engine starts running.
>Changing to the new "yellow lead" module didn't help. Can I assume the
>regulator is faulty. If so, can I run the wire from the alternator into an
>aftermarket regulator to fix this problem or do I need to purchase a whole
>new alternator? Thanks.
You can have the alternator repaired at an automotive
shop . . . if the regulator is bad, they'll replace
it. Did you notice the voltmeter in your airplane
before the trip? Was it indeed running 16 volts or
more?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Block |
>
>I am using the B&C Ground Block, however, the space on the engine site where
>it is best placed, does not correspond to the space on the cabin side. They
>need to be offset by a foot. So, I have riveted the two sides into the most
>appropriate place for the application on the respective sides of the
>firewall. Is that OK or do I need to wire them together with 2AWG?
The idea was that all cranking currents would be carried by
no part of the airframe or any components that held it together.
Hence, the 5/16" brass bolt intended to connect cockpit side
grounds with engine compartment grounds. It wouldn't hurt anything
to run a fatwire jumper between them . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: voltage regulators |
>
>
> >
> >Can any one tell me where they usually mount voltage regulators in a canard
> >pusher? I seems with three or four wires needing to go to the panel, warning
> >light, panel ground, and only one going to the alternator that it would be
> >best to put it in the nose. Tim Rhodenbaugh, Velocity XL, timrhod(at)aol.com
> >Thanks
>
>
> That would be my choice.
We always mount them to the canard bulkhead, between the lift tabs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night |
vision
>
>
>I'm designing a ceiling mounted headphone jack with integral LEDs for cabin
>light. It will have both a white LED and another color. Initially, I was
>thinking I would use red, but I vaguely recall that the military has
>determined that another color, perhaps green, was better as long as this was
>kept at a low level. A brief Google search found at least one reference
>confirming this vague notion. http://www.corvus.com/kniffen.htm is an
>astronomy reference.
. . . it is indeed a vague notion. About 35 years ago, red
flood lighting was standard in the small Cessnas . . . for lots
of dollars extra, one could install the optional red or blue/white
post lights. One can find about as many opinion/reason combinations
as there are pilots . . . some of whom will have never flown at
night.
EVERY color of light, if kept at a level just bright enough
to see that all is well, will probably do just fine. Individuals
may find that they favor or have problems with one color over
another but I'll bet that has more to do with individual
physiology than for any standard rules-of-thumb for cockpit
lighting. Besides, if you're using flood lighting, changing
colors later to suit your personal preferences is easy . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night vision |
I bought one of those LED gooseneck lights with 6 LEDs in it - but I'm
replacing them with two red, 2 green and 2 blue LEDs, and a 6-position
DIP switch to program whatever color I want. It will be interesting to
discover what color I find to be most effective, and what others prefer.
-John R.
(Actually, maybe I'll put in TWO 6p dipswitches, and a on-off-on DPST so
I can compare two different colors in flight)
>
>
>>
>>
>>I'm designing a ceiling mounted headphone jack with integral LEDs for cabin
>>light. It will have both a white LED and another color. Initially, I was
>>thinking I would use red, but I vaguely recall that the military has
>>determined that another color, perhaps green, was better as long as this was
>>kept at a low level. A brief Google search found at least one reference
>>confirming this vague notion. http://www.corvus.com/kniffen.htm is an
>>astronomy reference.
>
>
>
> . . . it is indeed a vague notion. About 35 years ago, red
> flood lighting was standard in the small Cessnas . . . for lots
> of dollars extra, one could install the optional red or blue/white
> post lights. One can find about as many opinion/reason combinations
> as there are pilots . . . some of whom will have never flown at
> night.
>
> EVERY color of light, if kept at a level just bright enough
> to see that all is well, will probably do just fine. Individuals
> may find that they favor or have problems with one color over
> another but I'll bet that has more to do with individual
> physiology than for any standard rules-of-thumb for cockpit
> lighting. Besides, if you're using flood lighting, changing
> colors later to suit your personal preferences is easy . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Block |
So, you feel it is worth a hole in the firewall to connect the two grounds?
- Jim
> >I am using the B&C Ground Block, however, the space on the engine site
where
> >it is best placed, does not correspond to the space on the cabin side.
They
> >need to be offset by a foot. So, I have riveted the two sides into the
most
> >appropriate place for the application on the respective sides of the
> >firewall. Is that OK or do I need to wire them together with 2AWG?
>
> The idea was that all cranking currents would be carried by
> no part of the airframe or any components that held it together.
> Hence, the 5/16" brass bolt intended to connect cockpit side
> grounds with engine compartment grounds. It wouldn't hurt anything
> to run a fatwire jumper between them . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
What benefit does this offer? Is it corrosion, or is it interference with
other electrical stuff, or what?
- Jim
> The idea was that all cranking currents would be carried by
> no part of the airframe or any components that held it together.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rico Voss <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night vision |
After 20+ years in the merchant marine, on the
darkened bridge of a ship, I've learned that there is
good reason for the traditional red lighting. I feel
that the red lighting can be cranked up enough to be
useful, yet still allows the eye to recover instantly
when vision is taken back into the darkness outside
the window. Other colors, turned up to a useful
intensity, are harder to recover from.
Of course, the option is to run any color at a lower
level. But in general, my vote would be RED.
--Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night vision |
John R.
Where did you get the 6 LED gooseneck light?
Thanks,
John
>I bought one of those LED gooseneck lights with 6 LEDs in it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | My Web Site Finally |
Please check out and save the link for:
www.PerihelionDesign.com
All sorts of aero-related stuff for sale and in development. This site is best
viewed with IE and a PC. Macs
and Netscape seem to be a problem. I'm working on it.
I made this wesite with a bunch of Webwizards from Excel and MSWord, so who knows?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Block |
>
>What benefit does this offer? Is it corrosion, or is it interference with
>other electrical stuff, or what?
>
>- Jim
>
> > The idea was that all cranking currents would be carried by
> > no part of the airframe or any components that held it together.
This is but one of many building blocks that make up
the design goal for a quiet, maximum performance electrical
system. When airplanes first got batteries and starters,
few, if any, of these building blocks were perceived or
even necessary. Nowadays, most are understood but application
on certified iron is sporadic . . . oft shoved aside
by traditional, political or regulatory decision making
processes.
The quietest airplanes minimize use of airframe to
carry power or signal currents on the airframe for
either potential victims or potential antagonists
but particularly potential victims.
The single-point ground system was a no-brainer feature
of the composite airplane . . . and many have been constructed
over the years with noise free systems. Metal airplanes
can derive equal benefit by adopting similar philosophies.
Ground loop coupling of effects between systems simply
cannot occur when there are no loops (multiple grounds
on airframes that carry currents for multiple systems).
Will your airplane suffer the indignities of a trashy
system for having pushed one design goal aside? Probably
not. Will you suffer some drop in performance? Probably
none that you will perceive . . . many airplanes we've
grown up with over the years have electrical performance
issues that can only be calculated and/or measured. As
humans pushing buttons and twisting knobs, our ability
to resolve variability in system performance is extremely
limited.
Just try to be sensitive to the fact that brushing
COMBINATIONS of building blocks aside can digress
your system back toward what we've been told
(by both manufacturers and regulators) are "the
best airplanes we know how to build." I hope our
associations here and elsewhere in the OBAM aircraft
community have exposed what a sad joke that is.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Block |
>
>So, you feel it is worth a hole in the firewall to connect the two grounds?
>
>- Jim
That's the way it was designed . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | Fuse reccomendation |
I am retrofitting my Q-200 with a B&C 200G alternator. Their drawing calls for
a 15a fuse on the engine side of the firewall.
What would be a recommended fuse and holder for this application? I didn't find
anything in the AEC catalog, maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.
The catalog said the ATC fuseblock was not reccomended for continous loads more
than 7a.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
Quickie Q-200
Flying since '86 with over 1,200 hours.
http://home.globaleyes.net/shoskins/page1.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Web Site Finally |
In a message dated 2/8/03 2:24:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
emjones(at)charter.net writes:
<< www.PerihelionDesign.com >>
Hi Eric, I tried the website this morning and for some reason none of the
links respond, plus there are no illustrations except for the picture of the
Glastar at the top but it looks as if you intended there to be some. I am
using a PC with Microsoft Office 97 on an old IBM notebook so it may be my
equipment.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, starting firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ageless Wings" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | My Web Site Finally |
Harry....
The pictures are quite large...he didn't reduce them to a manageable size.
So, if you are trying to load it with a dialup modem, they may take quite
awhile. I have a DSL line, and I thought there was a mistake at first,
too...but eventually they all loaded....the links followed.
Harley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> HCRV6(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:09 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: My Web Site Finally
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/8/03 2:24:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> emjones(at)charter.net writes:
>>
>> << www.PerihelionDesign.com >>
>>
>> Hi Eric, I tried the website this morning and for some reason
>> none of the
>> links respond, plus there are no illustrations except for the
>> picture of the
>> Glastar at the top but it looks as if you intended there to be
>> some. I am
>> using a PC with Microsoft Office 97 on an old IBM notebook so it
>> may be my
>> equipment.
>>
>> Harry Crosby
>> Pleasanton, California
>> RV-6, starting firewall forward
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse reccomendation |
>
>
>I am retrofitting my Q-200 with a B&C 200G alternator. Their drawing
>calls for a 15a fuse on the engine side of the firewall.
>
>What would be a recommended fuse and holder for this application? I
>didn't find anything in the AEC catalog, maybe I'm just not looking in the
>right place. The catalog said the ATC fuseblock was not reccomended for
>continous loads more than 7a.
The fuse blocks are rated by the manufacturer at up to 30A
per slot. For aircraft use we've recommended de-rating to 15A
per slot . . . and then only for loads like pitot heat and
klieg-lights you may have bolted on for night landings.
The single ATC fuse holder at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/ckrtprot/ckrtprot.html#ifh-2
is also RATED for much more . . . about 20A as I recall.
You could use this with a 15A fuse in it for the 200G
alternator.
If it were my airplane, I'd wire per figure Z-16 of Appendix
Z and use a 20AWG fusible link on the end of a 16AWG or
14AWG feeder . . . the feeder/link combination shown on
Figure Z-16 is appropriate for the larger, Rotax alternator.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | MicroSwitch vs. Carling Differences |
Over the years, AeroElectric Connection drawings have
depicted a mixture of progressive transfer switches by
Honeywell-MicroSwitch and Carling (who makes the S700-Series
switches stocked at B&C. Until all the documentation can be
updated to resolve differences between the two brands
see the benchmark document at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
These differences have left a few pitfalls for generating new
drawings from the archives of old drawings. One has to be careful
lest artifacts of both switch brands get intermixed.
Just such a snafu occurred when instructions for the LV_Warn/ABMM
modules were crafted. For those of you who have received LV_Warn
Modules from the first production batch, B-revision instructions
have been posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
The second production batch is being finished now and will be
shipped tomorrow with Revision B instructions.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse reccomendation |
Ok, I see that. I was already considering a fuselink, but some or your
writings (page 10-4)seemed to discourage them in the current ranges we are
talking about here. Re-reading it, I see you addressed PM alternators.
While I'm looking at Z-16 - what is the purpose of the 22AWG fuselink in
series with the 5a breaker? Isn't that redundent redundent?
Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse reccomendation
>
> >
> >
> >I am retrofitting my Q-200 with a B&C 200G alternator. Their drawing
> >calls for a 15a fuse on the engine side of the firewall.
> >
> >What would be a recommended fuse and holder for this application? I
> >didn't find anything in the AEC catalog, maybe I'm just not looking in
the
> >right place. The catalog said the ATC fuseblock was not reccomended for
> >continous loads more than 7a.
>
> The fuse blocks are rated by the manufacturer at up to 30A
> per slot. For aircraft use we've recommended de-rating to 15A
> per slot . . . and then only for loads like pitot heat and
> klieg-lights you may have bolted on for night landings.
>
> The single ATC fuse holder at
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/ckrtprot/ckrtprot.html#ifh-2
>
> is also RATED for much more . . . about 20A as I recall.
> You could use this with a 15A fuse in it for the 200G
> alternator.
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd wire per figure Z-16 of Appendix
> Z and use a 20AWG fusible link on the end of a 16AWG or
> 14AWG feeder . . . the feeder/link combination shown on
> Figure Z-16 is appropriate for the larger, Rotax alternator.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night vision |
I'm checking... I can't find my receipt, and this link isn't where I
bought it from, but it looks like the same thing and I think has the
same part number - but I didn't pay as much for it (and I know there
were several models with various combinations of color/quantity of LEDs):
http://www.cetsolar.com/3ledcabin.htm
I'll look for the receipt when I get back to the hangar next week - but
in any event, I think I'll end up modifying it so much (or destroying it
in the process) that I should probably just make my own - all I really
need is the swivel mount (gooseneck was the wrong word)
-John R.
John Schroeder wrote:
>
> John R.
>
> Where did you get the 6 LED gooseneck light?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>>I bought one of those LED gooseneck lights with 6 LEDs in it
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse reccomendation |
>
>
>Ok, I see that. I was already considering a fuselink, but some or your
>writings (page 10-4)seemed to discourage them in the current ranges we are
>talking about here. Re-reading it, I see you addressed PM alternators.
>
>While I'm looking at Z-16 - what is the purpose of the 22AWG fuselink in
>series with the 5a breaker? Isn't that redundent redundent?
Fuseblock (and bus) may be mounted somewhat remotely
from the panel and the 5A field breaker. If you EXTEND
the bus with a wire up to the breaker, it should be
protected. If you use a FUSE in the fuse block, then
because of the much faster response time of a fuse, a
15A fuse might open faster than a 5A breaker . . . so
we use a fusible link with a time constant that is
greater than a breaker to protect that wire segment.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Order processing system on the fritz |
The website's order-form program was down from February 1
through February 9. If you placed an order within this
interval and received a copy of it via your e-mail,
check the serial number of the order in the subject
line of the echo. We've lost serials 870 through 921.
If your order fell within this group -OR- if you placed
and order and did NOT receive an e-mail copy, please
do us the kindness of re-entering your order now. If
you have any questions, please call Bob at 316.685.8617
for AEC orders or Todd at 316.283.8000 for B&C orders.
Ya gotta love these computers . . . otherwise we couldn't
put up with them!
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob:
Asked my son about the Autocad LT at the bookstore of Ole Miss. If
you go to JourneyED.Com, you will see a list of AutoCAD's. Which one are you
talking about? There are a few around 150.00.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob:
>
> Asked my son about the Autocad LT at the bookstore of Ole Miss. If
>you go to JourneyED.Com, you will see a list of AutoCAD's. Which one are you
>talking about? There are a few around 150.00.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ed Silvanic
>N823MS(at)aol.com
Autocad LT 2002 for $149.98 would be my suggestion.
It is "light" in name only . . . VERY powerful
program.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
>
>Bill, I asked this question to Craig Weber, Facet's engineering rep, a
>while back and the answer for the pump Vans sells (model # 40108) is 1.4
>amps. I went with the "beer can" style pump instead on my RV, not because
>it draws less current (1 A) but because I like the inlet filter screen and
>it also fit in the wingroot where I wanted to mount it.
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D firewall forward....
Does anyone have a Facet pump they could send me for some
REAL energy measurements? I'd like to set one up to pump
a fix pressure head and put a data acquisition system on
it to plot the current curve (ya can't put a simple ammeter
in series with a critter that pulses) . . .
I'd really like to get some good data on one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>In a message dated 2/5/2003 4:20:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> > Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest and most
> > well arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been there,
> > done that: what's your experience/advice??
If for no other reasons:
(1) The EXPbus may or may not have all the circuit features
you need. What you see is what you get for now and
in the future.
(2) The EXPbus is warmed-over 1960's certifie-iron architecture.
(3) For what the EXPbus costs, we can buy all the circuit
protection, switches, terminals, wire, contactors and
installation supplies to do any of the Z-figures or
a variation thereof) and have money left over.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob!
>
>If I wire the switch per the terminal number sequence shown in Fig 11-11
>of Aeroconnection, it works as advertised regarding closing the contactor
>in the bat and alt position. Figure 7 of the ABMM schematic shows
>a (2-10) switch terminals only. The (2-10) switch terminals shown in the
>notes section of Figure 7 indicates a S700 (2-10) switch, mounted keyway
>up. I'll use the terminal layout shown in Fig 11-11 for all (2-10)
>switches (obtained from B&C) for my aircraft wiring.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
Thanks for bringing this to my attention . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | parallel resistor for LED used with LR-3? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
I found in the archives a reference where you recommended a 220 ohm resistor to
be used in parallel with an LED when used to replace the incandescent bulb in
the LR-3 Low voltage warning circuit. Then I also have a sketch you posted for
someone not too long ago showing the same thing only in this case you recommend
a 470 ohm resistor for the parallel resistor.
Is it 220, 470, or does it matter? I don't know how much current the LR-3 sinks
in the OFF state so I'm not sure how to calculate what it should be.
For what it's worth, Greg Toman suggests a 1K resistor to be used with his engine
monitor warning light if replaced with an LED, but his circuit may not sink
the same amount of current as the LR-3....so maybe that's a moot point.
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lonestar Mag Filter - Success |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
After some struggle to quiet the original magneto ignition system on my
VariEze,
I have some sucess to report. I replaced one of the mags with an
old-style LSE
CDI ignition, and I had the remaining mag rebuilt (new coil, points,
condensor,
timing adjusted, etc). There was still quite a bit of crackle showing up
on my
comm radio. The LSE ignition is very quiet, but it bothered me that the
mag was
only slightly better after the rebuild than before, and 10x worse than the
LSE. Out of
a small amount of desperation, I ordered one of the Lonestar Mag Filters
from 'Spruce,
and installed it over the weekend. I am happy to report that it made a
huge difference
in the system. While the mag is still noisier than the LSE, it only takes
about 1/2
available squelch to cover it up. Interestingly, (to me) even when I turn
the squelch
down, the amplitude of the noise is much less than before.
Lonestar touts the effectiveness of the coaxial design of their filter,
and from
my recent experience I can't argue. I didn't try any other style of cap,
however.
I suspect that part of my difficulties came from the VE not providing any
shielding that an Al airplane might enjoy.
Matt (Quiet and Happy) Prather
N34RD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Best LED color for preserving night |
vision
The LED Light.com has a variety of led fixtures. One looks like the one
referenced by John R.
See http://www.theledlight.com/interior.html
Mark S.
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>I'm checking... I can't find my receipt, and this link isn't where I
>bought it from, but it looks like the same thing and I think has the
>same part number -
>-John R.
>
>
>John Schroeder wrote:
>
> >
> > John R.
> >
> > Where did you get the 6 LED gooseneck light?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >>I bought one of those LED gooseneck lights with 6 LEDs in it
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
I'm toying with the idea of panel mounting a Garmin 196.
Has anyone used one at night? How good is the visibility/readability of
the display at night?
Thanks,
Dave
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: parallel resistor for LED used with |
LR-3?
>
>Bob,
>
>I found in the archives a reference where you recommended a 220 ohm
>resistor to be used in parallel with an LED when used to replace the
>incandescent bulb in the LR-3 Low voltage warning circuit. Then I also
>have a sketch you posted for someone not too long ago showing the same
>thing only in this case you recommend a 470 ohm resistor for the parallel
>resistor.
470 ohm series resistance will give you about 21
mA of lamp current. 220 raises it to 45 mA. The
high intensity red lamps I use really get your attention
at 45 mA!
>Is it 220, 470, or does it matter? I don't know how much current the LR-3
>sinks in the OFF state so I'm not sure how to calculate what it should be.
The LR-3 pulls down at about 2 mA in the off state.
Putting a 220 ohm resistor across the LED and then
a 220-470 ohm resistor in series with the lamp/led
combo will get it lit up in good shape. You need the
220 across the lamp to keep it dark while off-state
leakage is present.
>For what it's worth, Greg Toman suggests a 1K resistor to be used with his
>engine monitor warning light if replaced with an LED, but his circuit may
>not sink the same amount of current as the LR-3....so maybe that's a moot
>point.
This would give you about 10 mA on most lamps. This
will get you quite a bit of light too . . .
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kc" <samdacat(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
I have a new Facet #40108 that I won't need for the next month or two if
that will help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ?
>
> >
> >Bill, I asked this question to Craig Weber, Facet's engineering rep, a
> >while back and the answer for the pump Vans sells (model # 40108) is 1.4
> >amps. I went with the "beer can" style pump instead on my RV, not
because
> >it draws less current (1 A) but because I like the inlet filter screen
and
> >it also fit in the wingroot where I wanted to mount it.
> >
> >--Mark Navratil
> >Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> >RV-8A N2D firewall forward....
>
> Does anyone have a Facet pump they could send me for some
> REAL energy measurements? I'd like to set one up to pump
> a fix pressure head and put a data acquisition system on
> it to plot the current curve (ya can't put a simple ammeter
> in series with a critter that pulses) . . .
>
> I'd really like to get some good data on one.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
The lighting is PERFECT !!!!! It still amazes me how damn smart and accurate
that little box can be. Without a doubt the best 890.00$ I ever spent.Now,
if they would make a bigger display I would get rid of my King KMD150 and
make the 196 center of attention.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Starter solenoid |
Hello Bob and friends,
There's nothing better than a simple experiment to
lighten up. Today, I wanted to know how much current
my starter solenoid was draining... I remember reading
Bob's article, but I suppose I did not understand it
and decided not to use an external starter contactor.
Well, I connected a positive 12V to the solenoid tab
of my starter and the fuse from my battery pack blew
(a 15A fuse). I replaced it with a 20A fuse and it
blew after a few seconds... wow. What's happening? I
thought that the solenoid needed only 8 amps or so.
Bob's article on starter solenoid explains that very
well. There are probably two windings on the
solenoid, one of them connected to the contactor on
the motor side. So, initially, the solenoid can draw
quite a bit of current, but that second coil becomes
inactive when it receives the 12V from the contactor
side. At that time the demand for current from the
solenoid would get lower.
In my case, I did not connect 12V to the contactor
side of the starter (the bolt). So, It was always
demanding the high current.
Now I understand that peak current thing Bob explains
and I can see how it would make a switch work
harder... I modified my drawing to include a starter
contactor. :-)
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Facet Electric fuel pump ? |
>
>I have a new Facet #40108 that I won't need for the next month or two if
>that will help.
I believe I have one coming already. Thanks!
Watch for data to be published as soon as I
can get it gathered.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | re: Crowbar Device |
I have recently bought one of your crowbars to fit to my Europa + Rotax
912. It is a standard Europa Club modification and fitting instructions
with a circuit diagram are published. Nigel Charles, who is the club's
Modifications Representative had dealings with you some while ago.
I installed the crowbar plus a 40A relay, but with a 5A fuse instead of the
circuit breaker. At some stage during the first flight the Crowbar operated
and the fuse blew. It may have been at start-up or early in the flight, but
I didn't notice. I turned off all unnecessary electrics and completed the
flight on the battery alone. On inspection the 22,000uF capacitor had also
blown and had leaked soot and fluid.
Hmmmm . . wonder if it was hooked up backwards. Electrolytic
capacitors are polarity sensitive . . .
Following recommendations, I replaced the capacitor and used a slow blow 5A
fuse instead.
The crowbar ov module should always be used with a 5A breaker . . .
The next flight was uneventful and charged the whole time, but the
following flight blew the fuse on start-up. I replaced the fuse and the
flight was OK. Following further recommendations, I replaced the slow blow
fuse with a 5A circuit breaker.
Very good . . .
I also wired up a multi-meter across the regulator output and earth to
monitor voltage. The next flight was OK and charger at 14.05 V. After
landing and waiting for about 5 mins I started again and the c.b. blew
immediately. I tried resetting it a few times, but it would not remain
connected. The multi-meter recorded voltages of 35 to 40 volts depending on
rpm, so I shut down the engine. Further advice was to connect the regulator
control wire directly to the regulator output wire instead of to the Master
solonoid output terminal. This was a mod. to the Rotax suggested circuit
diagram, but had not been made to my A/C wiring. (It had run for 400 hours
like this without a problem) I made the change and ground ran the engine,
but it would not charge.
If you have this much output from the system under
any circumstances, I suspect the regulator/rectifier
is hurt . . .
At this stage I decided to remove all new components and restore the
original circuit. When doing so, I found that the c.b. would not function
properly and the insulation to the two wires to the crowbar had melted and
fused together. I bridged the reg. output wires to replace the relay and
ran the engine. It gave a constant charge of 13.75 volts, but I have not
yet flown since to test the system thoroughly.
Interesting . . . I'm wondering where the 30 volt
transient went . . .
I am concerned that I might have damaged the regulator which might cause it
to fail at a later stage. I am still keen to use one of your crowbar
devices to protect my avionics, but I do not want to have any further bad
experiences.
I'd like to see your wiring diagram. Suggest you compare what
you've done with Figure Z-16 of the AeroElectric Connection.
Rotax is not known for their critical understanding of
electrical systems.
I should be most grateful if you would give me your advice on fitting
another crowbar unit plus c.b. and relay and also whether or not you
consider I should replace the regulator, so as to avoid future problems. If
you would like to see my circuit diagrams, I could fax them to you if you
could e-mail your fax number. I am afraid I do not have a scanner.
You can fax a copy to 316.685.8617
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
There is one more consideration which builders may want to
question: The angle of the display (azimuth?).
I drilled a series of small holes in my innermost bulkheads and
buried LEDs in them so that they would light up the darkest innards for
repair or mod work. I neglected initially to check the angle at which the
LED displays the light and so the first few are 'spots' where they should be
'floods' (yellow is a good substitute for white - less costly).
I now plan using spots (10deg or less) for red instruments, one
per dial, and flood whites for general cockpit area and dark corners. These
'spots' are also great for bedlights when one wants to read without flooding
the partner. I got one wall insertion down to lighting just the page........
So consider lighting angle when you shop..........
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 02/10/03 |
Bob,
Just curious, is your website's order taking capability a secure
transaction? It doesn't look to be so.
I'd like to order a copy of the book, but I'm not in favor of insecure
transactions over the internet. I tried calling your phone number to relay
credit card information and got the fax.
Just starting on the planning stages of my electrical system and need all
the help I can get......
Doug Lawton
Europa Mono-Motorglider A244
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: Crowbar Device |
...but you DO have a scanner.
If you have a fax machine (as you say) and you have a PC (obviously, since
you are on line) with a modem (and fax software), all you need to do is fax
the document to your PC, and you have a scanned document. You do need two
separate phone lines, one for each device.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: Crowbar Device
I am afraid I do not have a scanner.
You can fax a copy to 316.685.8617
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
I'm planning on mounting my oxygen tank in the rear of the plane. The tank
has a simple lever actuated valve for opening and closing. I could run a
cable to open and close, but I would rather have it done electrically. I'm
looking for a solenoid with some special talents. I want it to stay in
position even if power is lost. Has anyone seen such a device? Any and all
suggestions taken.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter solenoid |
>
>Hello Bob and friends,
>
>There's nothing better than a simple experiment to
>lighten up. Today, I wanted to know how much current
>my starter solenoid was draining... I remember reading
>Bob's article, but I suppose I did not understand it
>and decided not to use an external starter contactor.
>Now I understand that peak current thing Bob explains
>and I can see how it would make a switch work
>harder... I modified my drawing to include a starter
>contactor. :-)
>
>Michel
Repeatable results are the foundation upon
which real science and understanding are
based . . . good work.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/11/2003 11:42:46 AM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)oasissolutions.com writes:
>
> I'm planning on mounting my oxygen tank in the rear of the plane. The tank
> has a simple lever actuated valve for opening and closing. I could run a
> cable to open and close, but I would rather have it done electrically. I'm
> looking for a solenoid with some special talents. I want it to stay in
> position even if power is lost. Has anyone seen such a device? Any and
> all
> suggestions taken.
>
> Steve Richard
> steve(at)oasissolutions.com
Steve, I'm sure there are solenoid valves that move a piston one way then
another, my concern with your plan would be in the event you lost all power,
you still need a means of shutting off the bottle if you were going down.
Oxygen could be just as bad as a fuel leak.
...Chrissi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Just curious, is your website's order taking capability a secure
>transaction? It doesn't look to be so.
No. The costs of secure website software adds only a
modicum of safety to an issue that is hundreds of
times wider than encrypted transfers from your browser
to my server . . . I've determined that the whole
"secure server" thing is bogus and I elected not
to load my customers with essentially
worthless overhead.
>I'd like to order a copy of the book, but I'm not in favor of insecure
>transactions over the internet. I tried calling your phone number to relay
>credit card information and got the fax.
If I'm in the office, I pick up in 4 rings or less. Otherwise
you get the fax. You could fax your order in.
>Just starting on the planning stages of my electrical system and need all
>the help I can get......
B&C stocks the book too . . . you can call them during
your order. Call 316.283.8000
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>In a message dated 2/11/2003 11:42:46 AM Central Standard Time,
>steve(at)oasissolutions.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > I'm planning on mounting my oxygen tank in the rear of the plane. The tank
> > has a simple lever actuated valve for opening and closing. I could run a
> > cable to open and close, but I would rather have it done electrically. I'm
> > looking for a solenoid with some special talents. I want it to stay in
> > position even if power is lost. Has anyone seen such a device? Any and
> > all
> > suggestions taken.
> >
> > Steve Richard
> > steve(at)oasissolutions.com
>
>Steve, I'm sure there are solenoid valves that move a piston one way then
>another, my concern with your plan would be in the event you lost all power,
>you still need a means of shutting off the bottle if you were going down.
>Oxygen could be just as bad as a fuel leak.
If you're planning to architecture and maintain the
airplane so as to ALWAYS have power, then what you're
looking for is a motor driven valve. You may be able to
adapt a MAC trim servo to the task. This would get
you an off-the-shelf gear box, actuation mechanism,
and limit switches. There may be other options in
the form of DC motor/gearbox combinations that
would facilitate the design.
Can you get some torque measurements on the valve
to help size the task?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Huw & Rachel" <huwrachel(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>In a message dated 2/5/2003 4:20:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> > Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest and
most
> > well arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been
there,
> > done that: what's your experience/advice??
>>
> If for no other reasons:
>
> (1) The EXPbus may or may not have all the circuit features
> you need. What you see is what you get for now and
> in the future.
>
> (2) The EXPbus is warmed-over 1960's certifie-iron architecture.
>
> (3) For what the EXPbus costs, we can buy all the circuit
> protection, switches, terminals, wire, contactors and
> installation supplies to do any of the Z-figures or
> a variation thereof) and have money left over.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob
Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest somewhere,
and this seems like the best place.
I just wish I had the knowledge to put together an alternative to the EXPBUS
using standard components.
For modern engines a continuous supply of electricity is necessary for
powered flight. We are installing an Eggenfellner Subaru in a Glastar and
the package comes with a very comprehensive Installation Manual.
The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to go
another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the warranty.
As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
2. Provide Alternator Field switch
3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the greatest
output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp, 11
amp.
7. Protects avionics at start up
8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained very
well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could lead me by
the hand to circuits designs and components that would replace the EXPBUS.
What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
"Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be required
to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter & Brumfield,
or equivalent button type breakers."
Additional circuit breakers include:
1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if desired)
2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
Additional fuses include:
1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical equipment.
4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
The 60A Main Battery circuit breaker is used to isolate the Main Battery in
the event of a serious primary circuit short. Isolating the Main Battery
could potentially offer additional emergency flight time when running off
the Aux Battery by engaging the Aux Boost switch to cross-connect the two
batteries.
Fuses 1 through 4 are ATO Type fuses. These are common automotive "blade"
type fuses and can share a quad fuse block. The purpose of the 10A Fuel
Pump fuses is to provide a protective device which will blow slightly before
the EXPBUS protection (11A) will trip. This allows other equipment which is
using the EXPBUS circuits to continue to operate in the event of a shorted
fuel pump circuit. "
Any help would be much appreciated.
from
Huw & Rachel Williams
huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
>
>
> Bob
>
> Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest
...
> The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to
> go another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the
> warranty.
Any idea whether Egg is in cahoots with Expbus? This kind of thing
makes me wonder. None the less, if Egg is honest, I think they would
recognize the robustness of the Aeroelectric inspired designs, and
approval should be easy.
>
> As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
> 1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
> 2. Provide Alternator Field switch
> 3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the
> greatest output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
> 4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
> 5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
> 6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp,
> 11 amp.
> 7. Protects avionics at start up
> 8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
>
I kind of liken this list of capabilities to Sears selling a machine that
washes clothes, dishes, is a cd player and cooks for you you. And,
you have to pay more because all of the capabilities are installed in
one box (for 'convenience'). Those are all things that we like to have
(maybe even need), but it may be inconvenient and impractical (and
maybe less safe) to have them all located in the kitchen. It really
doesn't make sense to pay extra for them either.
If you think about the above list, its pretty short.
>
> There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained
> very well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could
> lead me by the hand to circuits designs and components that would
> replace the EXPBUS.
>
> What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
>
> "Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
> protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be
> required to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter &
> Brumfield, or equivalent button type breakers."
>
> Additional circuit breakers include:
> 1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if
> desired) 2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
> 3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
> 4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
> 5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
> Additional fuses include:
> 1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
> 2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
> 3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
> equipment. 4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
>
If you duplicated a few of the items on the not-included list (add a
couple of
breakers/fuses for other electricals in the airplane), you would have to
add only
a couple of extra components (a few switches, a couple of contactors, a diode
bridge, some heat-shrink) to completely replace the ExpBus with a more
modular, custom designed system. I suspect that in the end, you are going to
end up spending enough time studying your electrical system that you would
have been able to understand it without the Expbus. At that point, if you
have
some kind of anomally, you have a clue about where it might be coming from.
Hmm....
>
> from
> Huw & Rachel Williams
> huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
>
Regards,
Matt Prather
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob
>
>Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest somewhere,
>and this seems like the best place.
Yup . . . that's what we're all here for . . .
>I just wish I had the knowledge to put together an alternative to the EXPBUS
>using standard components.
So did we all face a similar challenge at some point in the past . . .
>For modern engines a continuous supply of electricity is necessary for
>powered flight. We are installing an Eggenfellner Subaru in a Glastar and
>the package comes with a very comprehensive Installation Manual.
>The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to go
>another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the warranty.
I'm mystified as to why this should be so. But let's see what
the requirements really are and then see if the EXPBUS offers
some kind of magic that cannot be duplicated or replaced.
>As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
>1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
>2. Provide Alternator Field switch
>3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the greatest
>output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
>4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
>5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
>6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp, 11
>amp.
>7. Protects avionics at start up
>8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
>
>
>There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained very
>well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could lead me by
>the hand to circuits designs and components that would replace the EXPBUS.
>
>What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
Exactly what I was eluding to earlier . . . the cookie cutter
approach falls short in some ways . . .
>"Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
>protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be required
>to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter & Brumfield,
>or equivalent button type breakers."
>
>Additional circuit breakers include:
>1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if
>desired)
>2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
>3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
>4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
>5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
>Additional fuses include:
>1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
>2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
>3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
>equipment.
>4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
>
>The 60A Main Battery circuit breaker is used to isolate the Main Battery in
>the event of a serious primary circuit short. Isolating the Main Battery
>could potentially offer additional emergency flight time when running off
>the Aux Battery by engaging the Aux Boost switch to cross-connect the two
>batteries.
>
>Fuses 1 through 4 are ATO Type fuses. These are common automotive "blade"
>type fuses and can share a quad fuse block. The purpose of the 10A Fuel
>Pump fuses is to provide a protective device which will blow slightly before
>the EXPBUS protection (11A) will trip. This allows other equipment which is
>using the EXPBUS circuits to continue to operate in the event of a shorted
>fuel pump circuit.
It's been a goal of the AeroElectric Connection (and I
hope for those who participate on this list) to figure out
ways to meet electrical operational needs of ANY collection
of airborne hardware. The suite of architectures published
in Appendix Z of the book evolved as solutions to a variety
of unique requirements. All of them fabricated with simple,
off-the-shelf components.
There is no reason why we cannot modify one of the existing
architectures as needed to satisfy your anticipated system
needs along with some you may not have anticipated.
To start with, how about sending me copies of the
pertinent pages from the manual so I can familiarize myself
with any special requirements for this engine.
Bob . . .
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Why would one wonder if they are in "cahoots"?
I think we can discuss this without such implication.
The EXPBUS was developed some time ago with a particular purpose in mind
from a particular design perspective. I think it serves the purposes the
designers intended. We may argue that those are not our purposes or that it
does not serve our purposes as well as a more recently (or thoroughly)
thought through design. That is not only fair but healthy to think through.
It appears to me that the Eggenfellner people probably saw it as a tool that
would get them part the way there in a manner that they were comfortable
with for THEIR ENGINE INSTALLATION at the time they needed something.
Now maybe if they had time, insight or money they could have gotten Bob (or
some wise soul from this list) to do a better design (and maybe some day, if
such is presented, they will adopt same) ... but they don't have to be in
"cahoots" to have used the EXPBUS.
James
EXPBUS ...chosen for one RV project
AeroElectric Way ... chosen for another
... different strokes for different projects
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
> Prather
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest
> ...
> > The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to
> > go another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the
> > warranty.
>
>
> Any idea whether Egg is in cahoots with Expbus? This kind of thing
> makes me wonder. None the less, if Egg is honest, I think they would
> recognize the robustness of the Aeroelectric inspired designs, and
> approval should be easy.
>
>
> >
> > As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
> > 1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
> > 2. Provide Alternator Field switch
> > 3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the
> > greatest output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
> > 4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
> > 5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
> > 6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp,
> > 11 amp.
> > 7. Protects avionics at start up
> > 8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
> >
>
> I kind of liken this list of capabilities to Sears selling a machine that
> washes clothes, dishes, is a cd player and cooks for you you. And,
> you have to pay more because all of the capabilities are installed in
> one box (for 'convenience'). Those are all things that we like to have
> (maybe even need), but it may be inconvenient and impractical (and
> maybe less safe) to have them all located in the kitchen. It really
> doesn't make sense to pay extra for them either.
>
> If you think about the above list, its pretty short.
>
> >
> > There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained
> > very well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could
> > lead me by the hand to circuits designs and components that would
> > replace the EXPBUS.
> >
> > What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
> >
> > "Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
> > protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be
> > required to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter &
> > Brumfield, or equivalent button type breakers."
> >
> > Additional circuit breakers include:
> > 1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if
> > desired) 2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
> > 3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
> > 4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
> > 5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
> > Additional fuses include:
> > 1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
> > 2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
> > 3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
> > equipment. 4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
> >
>
> If you duplicated a few of the items on the not-included list (add a
> couple of
> breakers/fuses for other electricals in the airplane), you would have to
> add only
> a couple of extra components (a few switches, a couple of
> contactors, a diode
> bridge, some heat-shrink) to completely replace the ExpBus with a more
> modular, custom designed system. I suspect that in the end, you
> are going to
> end up spending enough time studying your electrical system that you would
> have been able to understand it without the Expbus. At that point, if you
> have
> some kind of anomally, you have a clue about where it might be
> coming from.
> Hmm....
>
> >
> > from
> > Huw & Rachel Williams
> > huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
> >
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt Prather
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Crowbar Device |
Bob,
> The multi-meter recorded voltages of 35 to 40 volts depending on
> rpm, so I shut down the engine.
I am a Europa builder and I intend to fit a 912S. I am curious to see the
report of over voltages this high. I was under the impression that the
permanment magnet alternator did not have enough "grunt" to generate a
significant overvoltage when a battery is connected to the system. Am I
mistaken in this assumption and should I seriously consider installing a
crowbar protection device ?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Prather <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I would wonder because it was stated that Eggenfellner might not
honor the warrantee on their product should it be installed without
the purchase of companion products.
None the less, I chose my wording poorly, and admit that for me to
suggest that Control Vision or Eggenfellner might be involved in
dishonest business dealings was foolish. I appologize for any angst I
might have caused. Vendors of products designed for the custom
aircraft market have enough roadblocks in the way of success and
don't need people spreading baseless rumors or false accusations.
I have heard good things of the Eggenfellner product and am personally
excited about using a better engine than my old Continental. If these
guys are doing it, good for them.
As for the Exp Bus product, I haven't been able to understand its merits,
though that doesn't demonstrate that it doesn't have any.
I still stand by the ideal of education for the custom builder. I think we
as a group should well understand the ins and outs of the systems that
we install and use. I believe that it contributes to operational
safety. If,
after developing a clear understanding of the requirements of the electrical
system on our aircraft the benefits of a particular product stand out over
its weaknesses, then buy it and install it.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
James E. Clark wrote:
>
>Why would one wonder if they are in "cahoots"?
>
>I think we can discuss this without such implication.
>
>The EXPBUS was developed some time ago with a particular purpose in mind
>from a particular design perspective. I think it serves the purposes the
>designers intended. We may argue that those are not our purposes or that it
>does not serve our purposes as well as a more recently (or thoroughly)
>thought through design. That is not only fair but healthy to think through.
>
>It appears to me that the Eggenfellner people probably saw it as a tool that
>would get them part the way there in a manner that they were comfortable
>with for THEIR ENGINE INSTALLATION at the time they needed something.
>
>Now maybe if they had time, insight or money they could have gotten Bob (or
>some wise soul from this list) to do a better design (and maybe some day, if
>such is presented, they will adopt same) ... but they don't have to be in
>"cahoots" to have used the EXPBUS.
>
>
>James
>
>EXPBUS ...chosen for one RV project
>AeroElectric Way ... chosen for another
>
>... different strokes for different projects
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
>>Prather
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:28 PM
>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest
>>>
>>...
>>
>>>The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to
>>>go another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the
>>>warranty.
>>>
>>
>>Any idea whether Egg is in cahoots with Expbus? This kind of thing
>>makes me wonder. None the less, if Egg is honest, I think they would
>>recognize the robustness of the Aeroelectric inspired designs, and
>>approval should be easy.
>>
>>
>>>As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
>>>1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
>>>2. Provide Alternator Field switch
>>>3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the
>>>greatest output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
>>>4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
>>>5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
>>>6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp,
>>>11 amp.
>>>7. Protects avionics at start up
>>>8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
>>>
>>I kind of liken this list of capabilities to Sears selling a machine that
>>washes clothes, dishes, is a cd player and cooks for you you. And,
>>you have to pay more because all of the capabilities are installed in
>>one box (for 'convenience'). Those are all things that we like to have
>>(maybe even need), but it may be inconvenient and impractical (and
>>maybe less safe) to have them all located in the kitchen. It really
>>doesn't make sense to pay extra for them either.
>>
>>If you think about the above list, its pretty short.
>>
>>>There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained
>>>very well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could
>>>lead me by the hand to circuits designs and components that would
>>>replace the EXPBUS.
>>>
>>>What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
>>>
>>>"Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
>>>protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be
>>>required to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter &
>>>Brumfield, or equivalent button type breakers."
>>>
>>>Additional circuit breakers include:
>>>1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if
>>>desired) 2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
>>>3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
>>>4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
>>>5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
>>>Additional fuses include:
>>>1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
>>>2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
>>>3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
>>>equipment. 4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
>>>
>>If you duplicated a few of the items on the not-included list (add a
>>couple of
>>breakers/fuses for other electricals in the airplane), you would have to
>>add only
>>a couple of extra components (a few switches, a couple of
>>contactors, a diode
>>bridge, some heat-shrink) to completely replace the ExpBus with a more
>>modular, custom designed system. I suspect that in the end, you
>>are going to
>>end up spending enough time studying your electrical system that you would
>>have been able to understand it without the Expbus. At that point, if you
>>have
>>some kind of anomally, you have a clue about where it might be
>>coming from.
>>Hmm....
>>
>>>from
>>>Huw & Rachel Williams
>>>huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
>>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Matt Prather
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
FWIW, the primary and MOST SIGNIFICANT reason to roll your own electrical system,
preferably utilizing the long and hard learned lessons offered by Bob
Nuckolls, is simply this: If you build it yourself, you must understand
what you are doing, and you will be intimately familiar with the thing
in its entirety. Therefore, if for some reason it DOESN'T perform as
expected, takes a crap in the least desirable of times and places, or
wants modifying at a later date, you, its creator, will be fully capable
of dealing with it. If something on that board decides to go south and
you are in East Bumflock, what are your alternatives?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips RV-6A - "almost" ready to order wires & stuff...
>
> Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest somewhere,
> and this seems like the best place.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter solenoid |
I think I must be missing something about the starter
solenoid. After reading about it in the Connection and
on the emails the only reason I have read not to use it
is that it is hard on the starter switch.
Would it not be easier just to get a better switch that
can handle this? I have a lucas keyswitch on one
machine that easily have 10000 start cycles on it
from 35 years of use.
Also there is about 20 different pieces of machinery
around here and none of them have starter contactors
except for a 30 year old ford dumptruck and another
large motor with a 24 volt starter with a series parallel
contactor (12 volt system with 24 volt starter)
There is the question of the starter sticking but that
can be taken care of by shutting of the master switch.
Is the problem something to do with running all that
power through the main buss??
I will be hooking up the starter soon like what Michel
just talked about. It is a little bitty subaru starter.
Got me wondering anyway
Thanks
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
ch601hds
ea-81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter solenoid |
What I'm thinking about Jim is to reduce the size of
one fuse from the battery bus (in the back). Bob
advises that the circuits from the BBus should be of
5A or less.
Since I use an ignition key, I have one circuit that
will drive the ignition 1 as well as the starter
solenoid.
One of my friends who use an ignition key in the same
way determined that he needed a 10A fuse to accomodate
the starting of the engine and the ignition together.
Using the contactor will enable reducing this fuse
to a 5A one.
It will also simplify the wiring to the starter in the
engine compartment. My batteries are in the back and
the alternator B-Lead is to be connected to the
starter (where the battery cables reach in the front).
With the "Start" wire, that makes three wires going
to the front of the engine. The contactor will enable
routing a single wire (4AWG in my case) instead of the
three.
Michel
--- Jim and Lucy wrote:
> Lucy
>
> I think I must be missing something about the
> starter
> solenoid. After reading about it in the Connection
> and
> on the emails the only reason I have read not to use
> it
> is that it is hard on the starter switch.
>
> Would it not be easier just to get a better switch
> that
> can handle this? I have a lucas keyswitch on one
> machine that easily have 10000 start cycles on it
> from 35 years of use.
> Also there is about 20 different pieces of machinery
> around here and none of them have starter contactors
> except for a 30 year old ford dumptruck and another
> large motor with a 24 volt starter with a series
> parallel
> contactor (12 volt system with 24 volt starter)
>
> There is the question of the starter sticking but
> that
> can be taken care of by shutting of the master
> switch.
>
> Is the problem something to do with running all that
> power through the main buss??
>
> I will be hooking up the starter soon like what
> Michel
> just talked about. It is a little bitty subaru
> starter.
>
> Got me wondering anyway
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim Pollard
> Merlin Ont
> ch601hds
> ea-81
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Good post. I, for one, applaud your response.
Comments below.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
> Prather
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:31 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
>
>
> I would wonder because it was stated that Eggenfellner might not
> honor the warrantee on their product should it be installed without
> the purchase of companion products.
>
I don't know, but I would think they are trying to minimize the number of
variables at this point. There are probably a lot of people out there who
have never heard of this list or read Bob's book but who are thinking about
"tinkering" with the electrical design. This is what we do but I can see
them having some concern in the early days of a new engine project. The
Lycomings have had dozens of years for tinkering so people may not be as
concerned.
> None the less, I chose my wording poorly, and admit that for me to
> suggest that Control Vision or Eggenfellner might be involved in
> dishonest business dealings was foolish. I appologize for any angst I
> might have caused. Vendors of products designed for the custom
> aircraft market have enough roadblocks in the way of success and
> don't need people spreading baseless rumors or false accusations.
>
We all make such mistakes. You put it quite well and summed up my reason for
responding.
> I have heard good things of the Eggenfellner product and am personally
> excited about using a better engine than my old Continental. If these
> guys are doing it, good for them.
>
Yes.
> As for the Exp Bus product, I haven't been able to understand its merits,
> though that doesn't demonstrate that it doesn't have any.
>
> I still stand by the ideal of education for the custom builder.
> I think we
> as a group should well understand the ins and outs of the systems that
> we install and use. I believe that it contributes to operational
> safety. If,
> after developing a clear understanding of the requirements of the
> electrical
> system on our aircraft the benefits of a particular product stand out over
> its weaknesses, then buy it and install it.
>
Yes you are most correct. I "evaluated" the EXPBUS for use for a particular
situation and concluded it was fine for the chosen application. Maybe after
I have done "Z-14" (or thereabouts) I will conclude that I could have come
up with a better approach. I did though go in with eyes wide open and so far
have been happy.
James
> Regards,
>
> Matt Prather
> N34RD
>
>
> James E. Clark wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Why would one wonder if they are in "cahoots"?
> >
> >I think we can discuss this without such implication.
> >
> >The EXPBUS was developed some time ago with a particular purpose in mind
> >from a particular design perspective. I think it serves the purposes the
> >designers intended. We may argue that those are not our purposes
> or that it
> >does not serve our purposes as well as a more recently (or thoroughly)
> >thought through design. That is not only fair but healthy to
> think through.
> >
> >It appears to me that the Eggenfellner people probably saw it as
> a tool that
> >would get them part the way there in a manner that they were comfortable
> >with for THEIR ENGINE INSTALLATION at the time they needed something.
> >
> >Now maybe if they had time, insight or money they could have
> gotten Bob (or
> >some wise soul from this list) to do a better design (and maybe
> some day, if
> >such is presented, they will adopt same) ... but they don't have to be in
> >"cahoots" to have used the EXPBUS.
> >
> >
> >James
> >
> >EXPBUS ...chosen for one RV project
> >AeroElectric Way ... chosen for another
> >
> >... different strokes for different projects
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
> >>Prather
> >>Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:28 PM
> >>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXPBUS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Bob
> >>>
> >>>Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest
> >>>
> >>...
> >>
> >>>The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub
> installation that to
> >>>go another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the
> >>>warranty.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Any idea whether Egg is in cahoots with Expbus? This kind of thing
> >>makes me wonder. None the less, if Egg is honest, I think they would
> >>recognize the robustness of the Aeroelectric inspired designs, and
> >>approval should be easy.
> >>
> >>
> >>>As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
> >>>1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
> >>>2. Provide Alternator Field switch
> >>>3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the
> >>>greatest output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
> >>>4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
> >>>5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
> >>>6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp,
> >>>11 amp.
> >>>7. Protects avionics at start up
> >>>8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
> >>>
> >>I kind of liken this list of capabilities to Sears selling a
> machine that
> >>washes clothes, dishes, is a cd player and cooks for you you. And,
> >>you have to pay more because all of the capabilities are installed in
> >>one box (for 'convenience'). Those are all things that we like to have
> >>(maybe even need), but it may be inconvenient and impractical (and
> >>maybe less safe) to have them all located in the kitchen. It really
> >>doesn't make sense to pay extra for them either.
> >>
> >>If you think about the above list, its pretty short.
> >>
> >>>There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained
> >>>very well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could
> >>>lead me by the hand to circuits designs and components that would
> >>>replace the EXPBUS.
> >>>
> >>>What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner
> Manual) is :
> >>>
> >>>"Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
> >>>protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be
> >>>required to complete your installation. These should be
> Klixon, Potter &
> >>>Brumfield, or equivalent button type breakers."
> >>>
> >>>Additional circuit breakers include:
> >>>1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an
> ANL-Type fuse if
> >>>desired) 2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
> >>>3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
> >>>4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
> >>>5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
> >>>Additional fuses include:
> >>>1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
> >>>2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
> >>>3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
> >>>equipment. 4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
> >>>
> >>If you duplicated a few of the items on the not-included list (add a
> >>couple of
> >>breakers/fuses for other electricals in the airplane), you would have to
> >>add only
> >>a couple of extra components (a few switches, a couple of
> >>contactors, a diode
> >>bridge, some heat-shrink) to completely replace the ExpBus with a more
> >>modular, custom designed system. I suspect that in the end, you
> >>are going to
> >>end up spending enough time studying your electrical system
> that you would
> >>have been able to understand it without the Expbus. At that
> point, if you
> >>have
> >>some kind of anomally, you have a clue about where it might be
> >>coming from.
> >>Hmm....
> >>
> >>>from
> >>>Huw & Rachel Williams
> >>>huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
> >>>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Matt Prather
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
How about a door lock actuator from almost any late model car? They are
small electric motor powered devices that will go to either position and
stop. Much lighter than a solenoid that would have the same force and
travel.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
I am purchasing wire to wire the panel of my RV6A. Am I correct that 95%
of the job can be done with 16 gage wire?
CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
I believe Bob said that 90% can be done with AWG 20.
John
2/11/2003 10:35:05 AM, cecilth(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>I am purchasing wire to wire the panel of my RV6A. Am I correct that 95%
>of the job can be done with 16 gage wire?
>CH
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
Just wanted to add my two cents on this. I have a Glastar with the
Egfgenfellner package. I do not use the EXPBUS. It was quite easy to
adapt one of Bob's drawings to accomodate the all-electric,
fuel-injected engine's needs.
One of the goals that Jan Eggenfellner has espoused is to offer a very
complete package....something that really appealed to this novice. As
such, he sees an advantage to having all of his customers using the same
parts, be it electrical or plumbing or whatever. Makes his job of
supporting his customers less complicated. I haven't been a
particitant in his user's group for a while, but when I was there he
never discouraged the use of alternative electrical approaches. He just
re-iterated that he couldn't (and shouldn't) answer too many questions
on systems he didn't design. Maybe that has changed in the past few
weeks...I don't know.
As to the warranty, isn't just about every warranty filled with
loopholes if you alter the product in any way?
Bill Yamokoski
very happy with my non-EXPBUS Glastar
>>> huwrachel(at)earthlink.net 02/11/03 19:12 PM >>>
>
>In a message dated 2/5/2003 4:20:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> > Still, I'm leaning towards the EXPBUS - as it must be the simplest
and
most
> > well arranged system for the homebuilder. So - to all who has been
there,
> > done that: what's your experience/advice??
>>
> If for no other reasons:
>
> (1) The EXPbus may or may not have all the circuit features
> you need. What you see is what you get for now and
> in the future.
>
> (2) The EXPbus is warmed-over 1960's certifie-iron architecture.
>
> (3) For what the EXPbus costs, we can buy all the circuit
> protection, switches, terminals, wire, contactors and
> installation supplies to do any of the Z-figures or
> a variation thereof) and have money left over.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob
Sorry, this is a long post, but, I need to get it off my chest
somewhere,
and this seems like the best place.
I just wish I had the knowledge to put together an alternative to the
EXPBUS
using standard components.
For modern engines a continuous supply of electricity is necessary for
powered flight. We are installing an Eggenfellner Subaru in a Glastar
and
the package comes with a very comprehensive Installation Manual.
The EXPBUS is so highly recommended for the Egg Sub installation that to
go
another route requires factory approval or it may invalidate the
warranty.
As far as I can make out, what the EXPBUS does for us is:
1 Provide Master Electrical Switch
2. Provide Alternator Field switch
3. Continuously monitors both batteries and picks the one with the
greatest
output - so giving automatic switching between batteries.
4. Monitors high and low voltage situations
5. Provides warm up circuits for lamps
6. Provides fused supplies at various rates 3 amp, 5 amp, 7 amp, 9 amp,
11
amp.
7. Protects avionics at start up
8. Provide Keep Alive circuits
There is a lot that the EXPBUS does not do and all of that is explained
very
well in the Installation Manual. I just wish that someone could lead me
by
the hand to circuits designs and components that would replace the
EXPBUS.
What the EXPBUS does not do, (quoting from the Eggenfellner Manual) is :
"Although the EXPBUS provides the majority of your secondary circuit
protection, several conventional circuit breakers and fuses will be
required
to complete your installation. These should be Klixon, Potter &
Brumfield,
or equivalent button type breakers."
Additional circuit breakers include:
1. 60A - Main Battery to EXPBUS (May also use an ANL-Type fuse if
desired)
2. 50A - Alternator to EXPBUS
3. 20A - Aux Battery to Bus Master switch
4. 10A - Starter Solenoid and Optional Cabin Heater
5. 10A - Optional Pitot Heater and/or Optional Cabin Heater
Additional fuses include:
1. 10A - ATO Type - Main Fuel Pump
2. 10A - ATO Type - Aux Fuel Pump
3. 5A - ATO Type - Auto-Failover circuit and additional critical
equipment.
4. 3A - ATO Type - Backup Gyro
The 60A Main Battery circuit breaker is used to isolate the Main Battery
in
the event of a serious primary circuit short. Isolating the Main Battery
could potentially offer additional emergency flight time when running
off
the Aux Battery by engaging the Aux Boost switch to cross-connect the
two
batteries.
Fuses 1 through 4 are ATO Type fuses. These are common automotive
"blade"
type fuses and can share a quad fuse block. The purpose of the 10A Fuel
Pump fuses is to provide a protective device which will blow slightly
before
the EXPBUS protection (11A) will trip. This allows other equipment which
is
using the EXPBUS circuits to continue to operate in the event of a
shorted
fuel pump circuit. "
Any help would be much appreciated.
from
Huw & Rachel Williams
huwrachel(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter solenoid |
>
>I think I must be missing something about the starter
>solenoid. After reading about it in the Connection and
>on the emails the only reason I have read not to use it
>is that it is hard on the starter switch.
>
>Would it not be easier just to get a better switch that
>can handle this? I have a lucas keyswitch on one
>machine that easily have 10000 start cycles on it
>from 35 years of use.
>Also there is about 20 different pieces of machinery
>around here and none of them have starter contactors
>except for a 30 year old ford dumptruck and another
>large motor with a 24 volt starter with a series parallel
>contactor (12 volt system with 24 volt starter.
>
>There is the question of the starter sticking but that
>can be taken care of by shutting of the master switch.
Not all starters use the two-stage engagement solenoid.
The only ones I am aware of offered to aviation are
the B&C and Skytec products . . . there are undoubtedly
others but some may not use this technology. In particular,
smaller starters using the inertial engagement (Bendix)
technique for the pinion gear has no particular need
of a robust solenoid.
>Is the problem something to do with running all that
>power through the main buss??
Close . . B&C suggests that wear and tear
on the pinion and ring gears is minimized by
providing the shortest, most energetic engagement
of the mechanisms as practical. The high inrush
current through the longer wires between
starter solenoid and push-button worked against
this . . .
A secondary consideration was that B&C wanted
their product to be a drop in replacement for
the Prestolite Pig starters that did not have
built in engagement solenoids.
Soooo . . . by jumpering the solenoid terminal
to the main power terminal, and suggesting
the use of an external starter contactor, both
conditions were satisfied.
PM motor starters CANNOT be configured by simple
jumpering Figure Z-22 in the 'Connection shows
how an externally wired "boost" relay can be used
to relieve the panel mounted controls of the high
inrush current while providing positive control
of the built in soleniod to prevent run-on engagement
of the pinion gear after the start button is released.
This same boost relay has been used with the B&C
starters to (1) eliminate the larger, external starter
contactor and (2) relieving the panel
mounted controls of the high inrush and (3) keeping
leadwires driving the solenoid short for best
engagement performance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
I would say 70% AWG22, 20% AWG20 (behind the panel)
Werner (still crimping)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire gage
>
> I believe Bob said that 90% can be done with AWG 20.
>
> John
>
> 2/11/2003 10:35:05 AM, cecilth(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I am purchasing wire to wire the panel of my RV6A. Am I correct that 95%
> >of the job can be done with 16 gage wire?
> >CH
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
| Subject: | oxygen tank valve actuator |
MAC servo's, dual solenoids from McMasters, and a car lock. Thanks for all
the great ideas!
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
John:
I finally just begin to teach myself this turbocad until I acquire the
AutoCAD LT. Took a few diagrams, cut and pasted the external power section on
to Z-14. Seems to be OK. I am looking for the symbols that Bob had offered at
one time. Do you know where they are?
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <wsweet(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter solenoid |
I went through 3 standard Bendix starter solenoids in as many years. Don't
know why the gear was stripping, since the engine/prop and all the
accessories came off a Mooney M20B. Went to B&C stuff, starter, alternator,
regulator, battery; for the last 9 years no( meaning zero, natta) trouble
with any of the stuff. It spins my IO-360A1A every time, all the time.
Am I an unpaid supporter of B you bet. Oh, BTW, got the tip about
B his hangar is three
down from mine).
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter solenoid
>
> >
> >I think I must be missing something about the starter
> >solenoid. After reading about it in the Connection and
> >on the emails the only reason I have read not to use it
> >is that it is hard on the starter switch.
> >
> >Would it not be easier just to get a better switch that
> >can handle this? I have a lucas keyswitch on one
> >machine that easily have 10000 start cycles on it
> >from 35 years of use.
> >Also there is about 20 different pieces of machinery
> >around here and none of them have starter contactors
> >except for a 30 year old ford dumptruck and another
> >large motor with a 24 volt starter with a series parallel
> >contactor (12 volt system with 24 volt starter.
> >
> >There is the question of the starter sticking but that
> >can be taken care of by shutting of the master switch.
>
> Not all starters use the two-stage engagement solenoid.
> The only ones I am aware of offered to aviation are
> the B&C and Skytec products . . . there are undoubtedly
> others but some may not use this technology. In particular,
> smaller starters using the inertial engagement (Bendix)
> technique for the pinion gear has no particular need
> of a robust solenoid.
>
>
> >Is the problem something to do with running all that
> >power through the main buss??
>
> Close . . B&C suggests that wear and tear
> on the pinion and ring gears is minimized by
> providing the shortest, most energetic engagement
> of the mechanisms as practical. The high inrush
> current through the longer wires between
> starter solenoid and push-button worked against
> this . . .
>
> A secondary consideration was that B&C wanted
> their product to be a drop in replacement for
> the Prestolite Pig starters that did not have
> built in engagement solenoids.
>
> Soooo . . . by jumpering the solenoid terminal
> to the main power terminal, and suggesting
> the use of an external starter contactor, both
> conditions were satisfied.
>
> PM motor starters CANNOT be configured by simple
> jumpering Figure Z-22 in the 'Connection shows
> how an externally wired "boost" relay can be used
> to relieve the panel mounted controls of the high
> inrush current while providing positive control
> of the built in soleniod to prevent run-on engagement
> of the pinion gear after the start button is released.
> This same boost relay has been used with the B&C
> starters to (1) eliminate the larger, external starter
> contactor and (2) relieving the panel
> mounted controls of the high inrush and (3) keeping
> leadwires driving the solenoid short for best
> engagement performance.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Figure Z-14 and crossfeed contactor location |
Hi Bob: I'm not sure this is the place to try to contact you but I'll try
anyway. I'll also try signing up through the consulting web site.
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net is a better address. nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com is so
loaded with spam that my you are at risk of being missed. Also, I'll
suggest you join the aeroelectric-list on matronics.com . . . these
kinds of questions are best answered in an environment where lots of
folks can share in the discussions and solutions.
I attended your seminar in Racine, WI in the summer of 2001 and am building
a two alternator, two battery Lancair Super ES. My electrical system uses
your Fig Z-14 as a model. My main alternator is a 60 amp provided by
Continental on my IO-550 engine. The no. 2 alt is a B&C 20 amp. I'm also
using B&C voltage reg's, batt contactor, crossfeed contactor and starter
contactor, etc. The distance from the aft mounted batteries to the firewall
mounted starter contactor is 10.5 ft.
Understand
Questions:
1.Z-14 shows a 2AWG strap fro the Batt Contactor to the Crossfeed
Contactor, implying [I think] a short distance between the two. Question:
Given the distance between the battery cx and the firewall [10.5 ft] could
the crossfeed cx be installed on the firewall near the starter cx?
If your batteries are in the back, I'd recommend a 2AWG common
ground for batteries, and two 4AWG feeders from battery conactors
to the crossfeed contactor mounted on the FIREWALL.
2. If the answer to question 1 is no, the crossfeed contactor will be
installed near the battery contactors in the aft fuselage. Question: Would
AWG 2 flexible cables work just as well as straps to connect batt
contactors to crossfeed contactors?
Sure . . .
3. Z-14 shows a 10AWG cable connecting the aux battery connector the aux
alternator. Question: Given the 10.5 ft distance between the two would 2AWG
or 4 AWG cables be a better choice?
If the crossfeed contactor is on firewall, then aux altenrator
can feed the aux battery at the firewall too . . . 10AWG is fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hi Ed -
Look on the CD ROM with MS Explorer and go to the folder: AutoCAD Drawings.
Select the symbols folder. Most all of the symbols he uses are in that folder as
.dwg files. Import them into a drawing as a block (Insert on the menu bar). They
are all to the same scale as his entire drawing catalog. There is also another
file of symbols in the drawings folder entitled: Symbols3.dwg. It is a series of
drawings, each containing one or more blocks. You can import them into a
drawing.
Good luck and I hope this helps.
John
2/12/2003 1:19:44 PM, N823ms(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>John:
>
> I finally just begin to teach myself this turbocad until I acquire the
>AutoCAD LT. Took a few diagrams, cut and pasted the external power section on
>to Z-14. Seems to be OK. I am looking for the symbols that Bob had offered at
>one time. Do you know where they are?
>
>
>Ed Silvanic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Drawings for Dual Electrical |
| From: | Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> |
I took Robert Nuckolls drawing Z-14 and redid it in Adobe Illustrator.
This should make it easier for some of you to print and edit the file.
You can access the PDF's at http://www.caseyspm.com/RV7A.html
Walter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: To start with, how about sending me copies
of the
> pertinent pages from the manual so I can familiarize myself
> with any special requirements for this engine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> 6936 Bainbridge Road
> Wichita, KS 67226-1008
Bob:
Would love to see a well-developed system that does not use the EXPBus for the
Eggenfellner
Subaru.
I intend to use this engine package, but have never gotten quite comfortable with
the
EXPBUS, in spite of the well-thought out circuit design given by Gary.
The redundancy presently built into the electrical system, as shown in the manual,
must be
retained....
(electrically dependent engine, after all).
The beautifully done installation manual can be downloaded from Jan's site.
I look forward to the possibility of a robust off-the-shelf electrical package
that does it
all., without the EXPBUS
Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Xfeed switch |
>Bob:
>Im reading from the revision 10 of the aeroelectric connection.
>On your Z-14 wire diagram you show a S700-2-5 switch for the
>crossfeed/starter switch. It appears that this switch needs to go down
>for the cross feed and up for the starter. Is that right? Don't we want
>a switch that is off in the down position crossfeed on in the middle
>position and start in the full up spring loaded position? On page 17-10
>under duel Alt/duel Batt description you describe the crossfeed switch as
>a S700-2-50 switch. But that doesnt look like a spring loaded switch in
>the full up position according to fig11-14 pp11-18. What don't I
>understand and which switch is it? Thanks Tim
The cross-feed switch is supposed to be an S700-2-50
and will be fixed at next revision. Use terminals 4-5
to control crossfeed contactor, terminals 1-3 for
the starter contactor.
This gives you OFF-XFEED-START as the three positions
for the switch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Wiring Plan et al |
>It appears the Carling S2-50 switch you provided has the terminals on the
>opposite side from what is shown on the Microswitch terminal numbering chart.
yes. see
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
> Does the negative terminal on the D 25 rectifier module need to grounded?
no
> Is a 5A breaker adequate for the alternator field line?
yes
> Do you sell or recommend a particular breaker for this application?
B&C stocks miniature, pullable breakers which
are available from their website at
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?7X358218
> Any reason I should not use the solid state adjustable regulator
> (Transpo M5-130A) I already have?
nope . . .
> Are 1/4 watt diodes really adequate for protecting the
> starter and DC power switches from the corresponding contactors?
1/4W? 1N400x series are 1A devices MORE than capable
electrically but rather fragile mechanically. You
can see how we use the more robust 1N540x series
devices on our contactors at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
>Must it be across the coil of the starter contactor or can it
>be across the battery and starter contacts on the key switch
>as the manufacturer's diagram shows?
If you use our starter contactor at :
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s702-1
the diode is already built in.
If you use another contactor, you need to add the diode
across the contactor's coil terminals. Putting it across
the switch contacts doesn't work as I explain and
demonstrate in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oxygen bottle electrics |
>
><tank
>has a simple lever actuated valve for opening and closing. I could run a
>cable to open and close, but I would rather have it done electrically. I'm
>looking for a solenoid with some special talents. I want it to stay in
>position even if power is lost. Has anyone seen such a device? Any and all
>suggestions taken.
>
>Steve Richard
>steve(at)oasissolutions.com>>
>
>How about a door lock actuator from almost any late model car? They are
>small electric motor powered devices that will go to either position and
>stop. Much lighter than a solenoid that would have the same force and
>travel.
>
>Gary Casey
Neat idea. I need to go look at those critters.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Feild Breaker/ Switch Selection/ Nav/Pos Hookup |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
A few questions if I may. ( All Electric on Budget )
1) I am happy to be using fuse blocks. So happy in fact, I would rather not
use the 5A breakers you call for in the Alt Field circuits. Why are they
necessary?
If I must use breakers I will probably mount them on the swing down panel I
am using to mounting the fuse blocks on. They could be re-set with a short
reach under the panel.
2) I have seen two ways to set up the Master switch. One using a 2-3 and one
using a 2-10 . Why is it an advantage to be able to turn on the BAT only in
the middle position? Does it hurt to have the Bat and ALT Field active when
you might just want to play with the Radios or GPS and the engine is not
running?
3) Speaking of playing with the GPS. Does it make any sense to put the
Electric Horizon and DG on a separate switch so that they are not spinning
up every time the Master is turned on and flight is not the intention.
4) I have the strobe/nav/position fixtures from Aeroflash. I see no reason
not to have the Nav and Position lights come on together, controlled by a
single toggle. Is there any problem using a single fuse and running a single
conductor from the switch out to the wingtips and connecting both lamp leads
to the conductor? Night flying is a rare occurrence and only for a short
time at the end of a trip. Loss of the Nav/Pos lights would be backed up by
the strobes and wig-wag Landing Taxi lights.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
AeroElectric Powered
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EXPBUS and Eggenfellner |
>
>
>Just wanted to add my two cents on this. I have a Glastar with the
>Egfgenfellner package. I do not use the EXPBUS. It was quite easy to
>adapt one of Bob's drawings to accomodate the all-electric,
>fuel-injected engine's needs.
> One of the goals that Jan Eggenfellner has espoused is to offer a very
>complete package....something that really appealed to this novice. As
>such, he sees an advantage to having all of his customers using the same
>parts, be it electrical or plumbing or whatever. Makes his job of
>supporting his customers less complicated. I haven't been a
>particitant in his user's group for a while, but when I was there he
>never discouraged the use of alternative electrical approaches. He just
>re-iterated that he couldn't (and shouldn't) answer too many questions
>on systems he didn't design. Maybe that has changed in the past few
>weeks...I don't know.
> As to the warranty, isn't just about every warranty filled with
>loopholes if you alter the product in any way?
>Bill Yamokoski
>very happy with my non-EXPBUS Glastar
Bill, did you document your approach in a way
that's easy to share? I'd like to see what you
did and then perhaps add a figure to the 'Connection
that's unique to the needs of the Eggenfellner
system.
I've looked over his installation manual briefly . . .
mostly good stuff but I think we can help him out
a little here. Let's put our heads together and
see what the elegant solution looks like.
Anyone else out flying the Eggenfellner package
with a non-EXPBUS architecture?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oxygen bottle electrics |
Steve,
You know there is a much simpler and more elegant solution to your
problem. Mountain High Oxygen Systems ( www.mtn-high.com
)offers very nice
panel mounted regulators, so that you can plumb your O2 bottle to the panel
where you have direct control over not only on/off, but also flow rates. The
January 28, 2003 - February 12, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-bp