AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-br
February 19, 2003 - February 28, 2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Solid State Gyro Components |
John Loram wrote:
>Analog Devices (www.analogdevices.com) is a primary sourced for MEMS
>devices. Go to their home page and
>and look under the heading "Technology Leadership". At the bottom you'll
>find a link to the MEMS products and technical support for their iMEMS
>Accelerometers and Gyroscopes.
---
Ahh... thanks very much, John. Sounds like just what I was looking
for. AD has been around a long time. Google usually pulls through for
me, but it missed on several of these. Guess I needed better search
criteria.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MIL spec connectors |
Thanks got one ordered. Should have said Mil-Spec type connector. It was
still expensive thought but feel better knowing that I will have a high
quality connector in line replacing the piece of garbage I originally
installed.
>
>
>>
>>Does anyone know of a good place to buy MIL Spec connectors that dont cost
>>a fortune. I need one that can handle aobut 24 wires at 18g. I want to put
>>in line with a exisiting harness.
>
> What is the "magic" you expect for having purchased
> mil-spec? Unless you have a customer with some hard
> over requirement for spec'd connectors, consider the
> AMP CPC connectors on pages 191-192 of current Digikey
> catalog.
>
> If you gotta have holy-watered connectors, contact
> Aeroelectric Connector in Torrance, CA
> (310) 618-3737 and give them a part number.
>
> Consider the MS3470 series connectors at
> http://www.aero-electric.com/26482_2.htm
> pick your inserts from
> http://www.aero-electric.com/26482s2_cont_insert.htm
> Consider too that tools to install/extract
> pins will be needed.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> |
| Subject: | Connectors pins & corrosion |
Cars do not us gold plated pins, nor do they use many sealed connectors in
the engine comaprtment, and I have never heard of a problem with corroded
connections. With this being said can it be safe to say that high doller
connectors are not required in aircraft but your typical cheap Radio Shack
$5.00 connector will not cause problems?
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
Bob,
Don't despair, we've all had occasions when all we want is for someone to
tell us what to do and we'll do it, just to make some progress. Then our
natural curiosity returns and we get back to being experimenters again. I'm
glad all the stuff is in the connection even though I have to admit I skim
some of it, eventually I'll have read it all and hopefully absorbed the
important stuff..
I haven't started my electrical system yet and probably won't for a year or
more - maybe even longer - but I'm lurking here in hope's I'll pick up an
understanding and a "feel for .." this stuff when I'm actually doing it. My
biggest fear is that there is something I'm just not aware of, or that
hasn't registered with me, but I'm hoping it's nothing major and that a Tech
counsellor will spot whatever I missed.
I especially like your summary comments "..if it were my plane I'd ...".
Like one of the other people I'm also building a canard pusher but generally
I can figure out what is relevant to my situation and what is not.
Cheers and thanks again for all the good work.
Cheers,
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Milestone in history of the 'Connection
>
> Yes! I must agree there. A more definite separation of electrical theory
from practical details would be nice. I've read and reread The Good
Aeroplane Electrical Thingies Book (tm) but I still have a large gap between
what I read and what I'm trying to do to the plane. It must be a mental
problem of mine, but it sure is frustrating. I wish I had a co-builder who
understood all this stuff.
>
> dg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Slade [mailto:sladerj(at)bellsouth.net]
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Milestone in history of the 'Connection
>
>
>
> > He wrote, "I'm tired of learning how. I know to properly
> > understand something you should know how. But things
> > keep changing, what's the use? I am tired of learning
> > how. Just show me and I will do it. Why it is, is no
> > concern."
>
> Bob,
> I wouln't dream of sending back my copy of the Connection, even for double
> the price, but I must admit that I do understand his sentiments. Building
an
> airplane involves a long and steep learning curve. The more we can par
down
> to the essentials what we have to learn, the easier the journey will be.
> Finding the information relevant to the practical job in hand involves a
lot
> of sifting with the current layout.
>
> IMHO you're book would be better as two books. Book 1 - the history of
> aviation electronics. It's facinating stuff, but I don't need it right
now.
> Book 2 - how to wire you're plane - or ideally "how to wire you're canard
> pusher". I'd buy book 2, and leave book 1 for background reading when I've
> got more spare time. For example: I DO want to know why I need an
> overvoltage protection circuit, how it works and how to wire it up, but I
> DONT really care how a generator works, or why they were replaced by
> alternators.
>
> Regards,
> John Slade
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
Rob Housman has summed up the real reason most of us are now harhouring very negative
feelings to PS Engineering.
I for one am not at all "wondering" why Chris thought that modifying the
factory supplied harness would void the warranty. You (PS Engineering)
quite clearly do not trust any homebuilder (no matter how well qualified) to
assemble the harness from scratch so I (and probably most of the other folks
reading your comments) would conclude that you likewise do not consider us
homebuilders competent to repair your faulty harness.
How do you rationalize that we have the expertise to repair but not to
assemble a harness?
Further, how do you rationalize your insistence that your audio panel (when
sold as an Apollo SL15 or SL10) must be installed with your harness or by a
"FAA-certified avionics shop," while UPS trusts us homebuilders to install
the entire "full stack" of Apollo radios (except the SL15) and all of the
necessary wiring? Let's get real here - the audio panel is decidedly low
tech compared to the rest of the stack.
Just for laughs, do you consider the holder of a Repairman Certificate to be
"a non-certified individual?"
I am not raising these points to harass you - I had decided on the Apollo
radios, including your audio panel, but this thread has made me reconsider
my choice of audio panel. If you start coming up with some better answers
and more enlightened warranty policies I (and I think many others) will
reconsider (again) and buy your products. Your current policy makes the
decision a no brainer.
Rob Housman
Quite clearly Mark Scheuer is quite unable to consider the possibility that since
we first build our aeroplanes and then install complex avionics installations
with the help and cooperation of other vendors we are not amused to discover
that PS Engineering considers us insufficiently skilled to install their audio
panel. This is rather insulting - unless of course the panel is unnecessarily
complicated comes with poor installation instructions and is insufficiently
robustly designed.
The subsequent justifications and spin are not creating a very good impression
either. Your choices are simple make it straightforward to install and warranty
your product. If you don't other products will be chosen instead and spin
(whining) from PS Engineering will continue to irritate and alienate the builders.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
| From: | "David Glauser" <david.glauser(at)xpsystems.com> |
Oh, please don't get the idea that I'm critical of Bob. I would like to state here
that without Bob, I don't think my plane would ever fly. I read every message
on this forum, and my copy of Bob's book and my AC43-13 are both well-thumbed.
I just seem to have a block when it comes to understanding things electrical.
I'm not dumb - I design and develop very complex software for a living. I
should have no trouble picking up electrical theory. It is relatively straight-forward,
being in the physical realm. But I can read about it all day and think
it makes sense, and then when I go to the garage and try to do a circuit,
I'm at a loss. Not Bob's problem, and I'm way ahead of where I'd be without him.
As Tony says, thanks again for all the good work.
dg
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Babb [mailto:tonybabb(at)alejandra.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Milestone in history of the 'Connection
Bob,
Don't despair, we've all had occasions when all we want is for someone to
tell us what to do and we'll do it, just to make some progress. Then our
natural curiosity returns and we get back to being experimenters again. I'm
glad all the stuff is in the connection even though I have to admit I skim
some of it, eventually I'll have read it all and hopefully absorbed the
important stuff..
I haven't started my electrical system yet and probably won't for a year or
more - maybe even longer - but I'm lurking here in hope's I'll pick up an
understanding and a "feel for .." this stuff when I'm actually doing it. My
biggest fear is that there is something I'm just not aware of, or that
hasn't registered with me, but I'm hoping it's nothing major and that a Tech
counsellor will spot whatever I missed.
I especially like your summary comments "..if it were my plane I'd ...".
Like one of the other people I'm also building a canard pusher but generally
I can figure out what is relevant to my situation and what is not.
Cheers and thanks again for all the good work.
Cheers,
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
> If you need to carry more than 4A continuous
> per pin, consider the CPC Series I connectors
> in the same catalog can accommodate up to
> 14AWG wires. Except for firewall penetrations,
> the AMP CPC connectors for systems teamed with
> CPC and/or D-subs for avionics would be my
> connectors of choice. They are low cost, tools
> are reasonably priced, gold plated pins are
> available for both styles. Excellent values
> for our projects.
Bob -
You say "except for firewall penetrations...". What kind of connector would you
use for this application?
Super posting on connectors! Thanks.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Crap. That's how I did them all. Guess I should redo all that.
How did it come out for you? the shielded wire I use
here would be VERY hard to twist, insulate and then stuff
into the wire grip on a 20AWG pin . . . Are you happy
with the outcome? Do you perceive any risks for un-captured
strands of the shielding "unwinding" and making undesired
connections within the connector?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
>> Bob I am in the proces of creating a pitch trim rely deck. Can't use MAC
>> to much load. I was reading you download about this Pitch trim page
>> 4.2. The elevator trim on the Velocity has a 3amp draw and 5a breaker so
>> i have a good idea of the size of the relays. Any suggestion on whose to use?
>
> The S704-1 relay shown on our website catalog is suited
> to this task and can be wired per diagram you cited.
Bob -
I have a pitch trim sheet from the Lancair IV wirebook that you did some time
ago. It is page 4.2. Is this the same one referenced in the posting quoted
above? If not where could I find a copy of the page in .dwg format?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connectors pins & corrosion |
I beg to differ sir. You cannot make such an assumption on the few
vehicles the average person sees. I know of several dozen problems with
corroded connectors on autos. You have to be either a mechanic or hangout
at a wrecking yard to be aware of some of the problems that are really
rare, but do exist.
R
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski(at)qcpi.com>
---snip---
> and I have never heard of a problem with corroded
> connections.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
>
>IMHO you're book would be better as two books. Book 1 - the history of
>aviation electronics. It's facinating stuff, but I don't need it right now.
>Book 2 - how to wire you're plane - or ideally "how to wire you're canard
>pusher". I'd buy book 2, and leave book 1 for background reading when I've
>got more spare time. For example: I DO want to know why I need an
>overvoltage protection circuit, how it works and how to wire it up, but I
>DONT really care how a generator works, or why they were replaced by
>alternators.
Understand . . . and I did consider what you've suggested
but after the first few issues of the 'Connection made it to
hard copy, it became apparent that the book was more a design
manual than a fabrication manual.
Tony B and his contemporaries put heavy emphasis on fabrication
. . . and the systems they recommended were al-la C-172.
I realized that you guys need to be systems designers.
My most memorable teachers showed me that you cannot do
your best work without understanding the individual
components and the history of their evolution.
I'll bet the classes of cooking school spend a lot of time
discussing various components of discipline, their histories
and how they interact with each other before they ever
put a match to the stove.
It's true that many folks building airplanes would like
the Heath Kit approach . . . and for those folks, Van's
drawings, Tony's books, and products like the EXPBUS
represent the shortest, and perhaps easiest routes
to success.
Forgive me, but that just doesn't excite me in the
least. It's like lifting a 6-cyl out of a '64 Chevy
and dropping it into modern vehicle just because
it's the machine I understand and can work on. I'd
like to believe that many folks who buy the 'Connection and
participate on this list are looking for ways to
make their projects truly represent the best we
know how to do in the year 2003. Having a good
working knowledge of the box of "Tinker-Toys" is
an essential tool of that task.
Given the wide variety of aircraft represented
on this list, fabrication information still
has to be generic. We've talked about bundling,
wire marking, firewall penetrations, panel labeling,
etc quite a bit on this list . . . and beyond those
kinds of techniques, what is useful and necessary
for fabrication?
It seems to me that most of our meaty discussions
are still very much at the component level with
discussions on suitability, performance, costs,
pitfalls, etc. None of this is very cook-bookish
for those who yearn for the box full of
parts and a check-box set of installation
instructions.
I AM interested in suggestions. For example,
what particular fabrication techniques would
anyone think should be in the 'Connection?
When the 'Connection first started, illustrations
were laborious. Heavily illustrated
instructions were easier to do on the website;
hence all the comic books and other how-to
pieces. My sense is that these things are best
left on the website where the cost of production
and distribution of a dozen, high rez color
photos and text is a tiny fraction of that
required to putting ink to paper on 1,000
copies of a book.
Your comment about, "book 1 for background
reading when I've got more spare time" caught
my attention. It's been my experience as
student, teacher and practitioner that the
"spare time" almost never comes later. If
it's not part of the curriculum, the follow-up
will rarely happen, if ever.
You folks are the customers. The 'Connection and
the website are as much yours as they are mine.
Let's push them ahead together.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Well, I didn't think the outcome was too bad, or I guess it would have
caught my attention before. It didn't really sink in until I saw your
post and pix on the subject. The shield twisted without much effort,
and the pin seemed to grip well. However, I didn't insulate them with
heatshrink like I "at least" should have.
As far as being happy...what you show is a lot nicer now that I think
about it, but I'm not sure I really perceive any problems though. I
think I'll probably go back and heat shrink them all, and call it good.
That should keep any strands from getting their own ideas....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: shield pigtail
>
>
>Crap. That's how I did them all. Guess I should redo all that.
How did it come out for you? the shielded wire I use
here would be VERY hard to twist, insulate and then stuff
into the wire grip on a 20AWG pin . . . Are you happy
with the outcome? Do you perceive any risks for un-captured
strands of the shielding "unwinding" and making undesired
connections within the connector?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connectors pins & corrosion |
>
>Cars do not us gold plated pins, nor do they use many sealed connectors in
>the engine comaprtment, and I have never heard of a problem with corroded
>connections. With this being said can it be safe to say that high doller
>connectors are not required in aircraft but your typical cheap Radio Shack
>$5.00 connector will not cause problems?
I've had perhaps a dozen "incidents" involving
poor contact in automotive connectors with the first
one rising out of the ashes of a charred firewall
connector on my '59 Chevy and the most spectacular
being an AMC Pacer that kept trying to immolate
itself via a very poor fuseblock design.
I'd judge that the most difficult to find and fix
electrical problems have involved connector quality
issues and represent perhaps 1/4 of all failures
I've personally dealt with. Of course, the automotive
world used to use brass-on-brass connectors . . . at
least they're adding some plating and even a degree
of environmental sealing in modern connectors.
It's a sure bet that the gold-plated is better than
tin-plated is better than bare-brass connectors
with "Radio Shack" parts falling someplace between
the extremes. It can very much depend on where you
live. Our dirt cheap speakers on the Cessna SE aircraft
wouldn't last 6-months in Opa Locka, FL but lasted forever
in Tucson, AZ.
For myself, it kinda boils down to "if you haven't
got the time/dollars to do it right the first time,
where do you find the time/dollars to do it over
later?" The % increase in overall cost of the system
to use gold plated pins in all my airframe harnesses
instead of something cheaper is trivial. I'd call
this simple, reasonably priced risk management.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
>
>
>Good Evening All.
>
>I know we are not supposed to use bandwidth to say "Me Too." However, in
>this case I hope I will be forgiven. The only thing that I have found in the
>years I have been reading Electric Bob's stuff is that it has gotten better
>and better.
>
>Stay the course!
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
. . and all of you have participated in this endeavor.
I've learned more about advancing the state of the art
in the last 15 years of the 'Connection than I did
in the first 25 years of hearding new products through
the certification traps.
I've learned new things because you guys asked questions
that fertilized a search for answers. All of those
Z-figures evolved because there were opportunities
unfettered by tradition and regulation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> Got a book back from a gentleman who asked for his money
> back. Couldn't find where I'd sold it too him. He must
> have picked it up from one of the dealers. It had a stained
> front cover which he confessed happened when he left
> a sandwich laying on it . . . but the interior was still
> okay.
>
> He wrote, "I'm tired of learning how. I know to properly
> understand something you should know how. But things
> keep changing, what's the use? I am tired of learning
> how. Just show me and I will do it. Why it is, is no
> concern."
>
> For the first time in 17 years of publication and
> something on the order of 10,000 books sold,
> his was the first instance where an amateur airplane
> builder said they have no interest knowing how their
> airplane works . . . truly a milestone in my aviation
> career.
>
> I cut him a check and put it in the mail with a note
> hoping that his experiences with his airplane were
> "enjoyable and stress free." I've put his letter on the
> bulletin board over my desk. It's a "keeper". . .
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, the attitude of your reader is one that I have personally been
confronted with by a few readers of my website, "The RV Journal". One of
the most enjoyable aspects of a fly-in, major or minor, is the
opportunity for me to meet builders who express their appreciation for
the effort I expended on documenting the construction of my RV-6.
However, I have been discouraged to find that there is a segment of
builders who really have no interest in "doing their homework" as most
of us find necessary and challenging; they just want somebody to "tell
them what to do". This attitude concerns me because I have questioned a
few builders about the choices they made during construction and the
reply was "I just did it because that is what I read on your website".
The fact that their mission profile or flight experience was different
from mine, or the possibility that my reasoning may have been flawed
(!?!) was apparently not a factor in their decision to parrot what they
found on a builder's website. What is especially discouraging is that a
very few builders have seemed to take exception to my suggestion that
they need to research certain areas of construction to make sure the
plane is best suited to their needs.
Fortunately, I am describing a very small segment of the builders I have
met. However, as more and more folk enter the world of custom-built
aircraft, a world many of them would have never considered a few years
ago, I suspect the segment of builders who wish to replace personal
education with a "cookbook mentality" will become larger. It may very
well be an extension of our society's wish to achieve instant
gratification, but the construction and safe operation of an airplane is
not a good endeavor to pursue by blindly following other people's ideas
without understanding the rational of engineering factors.
Thanks again for your continued efforts to bring us up to speed on
electrical theory and practice; and especially thank you for encouraging
innovative thought outside the conventional box! :-)
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I bought the Aerolectric Book several years ago and believe it is just
>right. I have studied it several times over the years and find that it is
>just the right amount of theory and practice. Since I don't practice
>electrical engineering I tend to quickly forget the principals involved but
>I am glad that I can pick up your book and with an evening of reading can
>quickly regain a grasp of the basics. Then I can proceed with the
>applications also offered in the book.
>
>I feel that I am a better and safer pilot for having learned from your
>lectures and book. I think we are all extremely priveledged to have you as a
>resource and encourage you to keep on with your work.....
>
>Thanks for all your efforts,
Thank you . . . I'm pleased that you find the work
useful enough to patronize. We're helping each other!
It occurred to me that my "Milestone" post may have
been interpreted as being disappointed that the
customer didn't find the 'Connection to be a valuable
resource . . . which was NOT what surprised me.
I was most startled by his assertion that he didn't
want nor did he care to know how things worked. Whether
his information source of choice was the 'Connection or
any other didn't matter. The fact that he was making
a conscious effort to be a knob twister and lever
puller largely ignorant of the results of his actions
gave me the shivers.
I'm truly concerned for his future as a pilot.
I think many folks like this are star performers
in many dark-n-stormy-night situations with too
many not being around write the story down for
AOPA Pilot when the sun comes up.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
> The fact that he was making
> a conscious effort to be a knob twister and lever
> puller largely ignorant of the results of his actions
> gave me the shivers.
Bob,
I think perhaps you're interpreting "knob twister's" words too strongly.
While I understand his sentiment, I do want to understand the inner working
and function of EVERY gizmo that actually GOES IN my machine and why it's
there instead of various alternatives. What I don't feel I need to know is
how that gizmo evolved through layers of now extinct technology. Time spent
researching what we builders do has to be balanced against time spent
actually doing things. Get the balance wrong and there's danger of our not
getting to "pull the levers" until after the gizmos on the end have joined
the rows of extinct gizmos before them.
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Conflictiong Shield Termination |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
The shields for the mic and phone inputs and then the outputs to the com
radios for my PMA4000 Audio Panel/Intercom are shown terminated to "Lo" at
the intercom only. Fine. The outputs are shown going to Com 1 and Com 2 and
the shield is left unconnected. The unswitched audio connection to the GPS
is also shown grounded only at the intercom, fine.
The problem ... the wire diagram for the Icom radios show the mic and phone
shields making a connection at the radio, actually it looks like they are
using a single shielded conductor and using the shield as the ground/return
wire. The GPS also shows the audio to the intercom with the shield
terminated at the GPS end.
Do I need to make some phone calls?
Your thoughts,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch for AH ? |
Bob,
All right, sometimes just to make a point stronger we get a bit extreme.
But I would consider risky to go into a heavy turbulence with a gyro
with a limit stop. And for sure one should not attempt aerobatics with
these gyros running. Tumbling them would not extend their lifetime.
My gyro is an old cheap electrical postcommunist gyro LUN1202 made in
Czechoslovakia, it does not have the limit stops, but it does not have
the third frame, so it is not considered a true aerobatic gyro.
Nevertheless, it takes a lot of effort to get it tumbled. After many
attempts eventually I managed to tumble it by pushing rudder while going
vertically up. Going up or down are the situations when the two frames
of the gyro go into one plane. That position does not cause troubles if
you go straight, it works fine in loops. But if you push the rudder
while vertical you might get a trouble. I doubt if I ever get in such a
position due to a turbulence, and I always felt secure with it. It still
works all right, and now I am installing it into my KIS Cruiser. This is
not an aerobatic plane so no plans for vertical flying. I also have a
Czechoslovakian Directional Gyro LUN 1272.
Jerzy
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 2/18/03 11:32:14 PM Central Standard Time,
>krasinski(at)direcway.com writes:
>
>
>
>>This is probably true for gyros with limit stops, but those gyros belong
>>to a museum. Good contemporary gyros have 360 degrees fredom in every
>>direction of motion, and the plane rolls and loops around them in
>>aerobatic figures.
>>
>>
>
>Good Morning Jerzy,
>
>I don't disagree with your premise as to the capability of many modern gyros,
>(I mentioned that in the message from which you took your quote), but I would
>like to state that the section of my message which you quote was not written
>by me. It was a portion of a message to which I was adding additional data.
>I do believe I credited the original author, Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr, in
>my message.
>
>However, I feel your comment that any gyro that tumbles in an aerobatic
>maneuver should be relegated to a museum is a bit extreme.
>
>I have no way of knowing for sure, but I will bet a milk shake that the
>majority of gyros used in GA aircraft currently flown IFR will tumble. I
>have a KG-102A feeding a KI-525A and an Edo-Aire Mitchell 52D66 artificial
>horizon that are my primary IFR gyros.
>
>Both of those instruments will tumble if aerobatic flight is attempted.
>
>Are you suggesting that all instrumentation of that era should be abandoned?
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Bob -
I found a .dwg file in your format entitled: Pitch Trim, p 4.2 and revised 8-20-
00. The view is # 37 and the upper left corner has the number: FH980201. It has
a diode on each reversing relay as mentioned by Bryk. It also has two options
shown for the trim indicator.
I'm thinking that this is the one referenced by Bryk. Right?
John
>>> Bob I am in the proces of creating a pitch trim rely deck. Can't use MAC
>>> to much load. I was reading you download about this Pitch trim page
>>> 4.2. The elevator trim on the Velocity has a 3amp draw and 5a breaker so
>>> i have a good idea of the size of the relays. Any suggestion on whose to
use?
>>
>> The S704-1 relay shown on our website catalog is suited
>> to this task and can be wired per diagram you cited.
>
>Bob -
>
>I have a pitch trim sheet from the Lancair IV wirebook that you did some time
>ago. It is page 4.2. Is this the same one referenced in the posting quoted
>above? If not where could I find a copy of the page in .dwg format?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Schroeder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
>
> >I've learned new things because you guys asked questions
> > that fertilized a search for answers. All of those
> >
>
>
>Hahahaha!! Bob's calling our questions 'fertilizer.' What will he
>think of next??? :)
Touch . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob -
>
>I found a .dwg file in your format entitled: Pitch Trim, p 4.2 and revised
>8-20-
>00. The view is # 37 and the upper left corner has the number: FH980201.
>It has
>a diode on each reversing relay as mentioned by Bryk. It also has two options
>shown for the trim indicator.
>
>I'm thinking that this is the one referenced by Bryk. Right?
That's the one. I had also posted it at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/trim2.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Conflictiong Shield Termination |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>The shields for the mic and phone inputs and then the outputs to the com
>radios for my PMA4000 Audio Panel/Intercom are shown terminated to "Lo" at
>the intercom only. Fine. The outputs are shown going to Com 1 and Com 2 and
>the shield is left unconnected. The unswitched audio connection to the GPS
>is also shown grounded only at the intercom, fine.
>
>The problem ... the wire diagram for the Icom radios show the mic and phone
>shields making a connection at the radio, actually it looks like they are
>using a single shielded conductor and using the shield as the ground/return
>wire. The GPS also shows the audio to the intercom with the shield
>terminated at the GPS end.
>
>Do I need to make some phone calls?
It wouldn't hurt . . . but if you've deduced that some shields
are attached at both ends for the purposes of providing
ground return, then a double ended connection makes
sense. I'm mystified by the shields with NO connection,
I would return these to ground at the black box where
the center conductors provide INPUTS.
Can you scan/mail or fax me copies of the drawings?
It's always easier to sort these things out when
we're both looking at the same pieces of paper.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
There definitely is a problem with corrosion in automotive applications. In
the beginning there were only unsealed brass connections. Then the
low-current, high impedance systems went to sealed, tin-plated connectors
under the hood. Then the high-current connections were sealed. Now sealed
connections are finding there way inside the passenger compartment.
Gold-plated terminals are increasing specified for under-hood terminations
carrying less than maybe 100ma. The "USCAR" connectors use a shroud over
the seal to protect against water spray. They also have a double latch
system where a secondary latch can't be snapped in place unless the primary
latch is in place. To separate the secondary latch has to first be pulled
out before the primary latch can be undone. All that costs more and more
money, but automakers are will to pay for the increase in reliability. If
we showed up in Detroit with a Molex-style connector on one of our sensors
we would be laughed out of town. Even the Mil-spec connectors usually can't
pass automotive requirements, mainly because the seal around the wire is too
fragile and subject to mis-handling. To be fair, the big difference between
automotive and aircraft applications is that aircraft aren't subjected to
salt spray (float planes used in salt water?). Regardless, I would
certainly consider sealed automotive-type connectors for everything outside
the cockpit and especially under the cowl and I would use gold terminations
in all D-sub connectors inside the cockpit.
Gary Casey
certainly no expert, but some experience
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Faris" <kf64358(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Solid State Gyro Components |
I'm interested in locating some pointers to solid state gyro
components. I know almost nothing about them but can imagine they may
be a spinoff of some of the neat gismos that came out National
Semiconductor in the late '70s or early '80s. They had created some
interesting little solid state motors back then and which at the time I
really didn't pay much attention to other than to think they were
really innovative. Am I way off base on the fundamentals of these
components? Anybody got a link or pointer?
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
Look at the following links in your quest for solid state gyros. The don't tumble
during aerobatics and such but instead have both short and long-term drift
problems. Various designers have tried all sorts of creative ways to cure the
"drift" problems. Some involve using GPS to determine "straight and level"
and others use combinations of compass and electronic "plumb-bobs".
The GPS stabilization seems good until you realize that if you are IFR and lose
GPS you lose your reference and the drift will kill you.
Flying magazine a couple of months ago ran an article on MFD's that explains the
compass and plumb-bob approach.
www.electronic-engineering.ch/study/ins/ins.html
http://www.watson-gyro.com/PDF/AHRS_E304_Brochure.pdf
I have no idea how the "big boys" do AHRS systems in a Boeing, but they always
have a mechanical gyro backup.
Just a few things to consider.
Kevin Faris
RV7 wings, fuselage kit just arrived.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Conflictiong Shield Termination |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Bob, I will fax copies to 316-685-8617.
I am heading over to the workshop, will send them after lunch.
I have used three conductor shielded wire for both mic and audio runs as it
made economical sense to go this way.
I must have miscommunicated. None of the shields are left hanging at both
ends. It is just that PS Engineering shows termination at there unit only
and the GPS and Coms show termination at there end.
Don
> Hi Bob,
>>
>> The shields for the mic and phone inputs and then the outputs to the com
>> radios for my PMA4000 Audio Panel/Intercom are shown terminated to "Lo" at
>> the intercom only. Fine. The outputs are shown going to Com 1 and Com 2 and
>> the shield is left unconnected. The unswitched audio connection to the GPS
>> is also shown grounded only at the intercom, fine.
>>
>> The problem ... the wire diagram for the Icom radios show the mic and phone
>> shields making a connection at the radio, actually it looks like they are
>> using a single shielded conductor and using the shield as the ground/return
>> wire. The GPS also shows the audio to the intercom with the shield
>> terminated at the GPS end.
>>
>> Do I need to make some phone calls?
>
> It wouldn't hurt . . . but if you've deduced that some shields
> are attached at both ends for the purposes of providing
> ground return, then a double ended connection makes
> sense. I'm mystified by the shields with NO connection,
> I would return these to ground at the black box where
> the center conductors provide INPUTS.
>
> Can you scan/mail or fax me copies of the drawings?
> It's always easier to sort these things out when
> we're both looking at the same pieces of paper.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyro Components |
Kevin Faris wrote:
>Look at the following links in your quest for solid state gyros. The
>don't tumble during aerobatics and such but instead have both short
>and long-term drift problems. Various designers have tried all sorts
>of creative ways to cure the "drift" problems. Some involve using GPS
>to determine "straight and level" and others use combinations of
>compass and electronic "plumb-bobs".
Thanks, Kevin. Yes, I just noticed on the Analog Devices spec sheet
last night that the things drift a lot.
>The GPS stabilization seems good until you realize that if you are IFR
>and lose GPS you lose your reference and the drift will kill you.
No kidding. Will probably require a pretty innovative approach to cope
with this. I got really interested in this after looking at some of
the new electronic widgets available now. I may never build what I
have in mind, but I'm going to study the problem until I understand its
pros and cons.
>Flying magazine a couple of months ago ran an article on MFD's that
>explains the compass and plumb-bob approach.
Thanks for the pointers -- I'll check those out. Without understanding
more about the techniques currently being used I sure don't plan any
IFR on these things. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Gary -
Could you provide a website or other info on these connectors. They sound
interesting.
Many thanks.
John Schroeder
Super ES
>The "USCAR" connectors use a shroud over the seal to protect against water
>>>>>spray. They also have a double latch system where a secondary latch can't
>be snapped in place unless the primary latch is in place. To separate the
>>>>>secondary latch has to first be pulled out before the primary latch can be
>undone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Conflictiong Shield Termination |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
Faxed you the wire diagrams and an antenna "farm" consideration this
afternoon. I hope it all came through I was using my sisters fax and am a
rookie at it.
In the process of faxing I had the pleasure of talking with a very pleasant
and upbeat lady ... thank her for me for being so patient.
Note on the Icom page under Power cable wiring, the statement "Use 2 pairs
of #18 wires for power and power grounding wiring. 2 pairs? I am not sure
what they mean. Use 2 separate conductors for power ... one to pin 14 and
the other to pin R and then tie them together at the fuse? The ground pins
6-15-F- S ... a pair of conductors to ground these pins?????
I have also added the pin numbers on the Icom sheet that I feel will hook up
with the pins on the intercom. I hope my notations are clear.
Thanks much,
don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)pilot.msu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyro Components |
Canyon wrote:
>Thanks, Kevin. Yes, I just noticed on the Analog Devices spec sheet
>last night that the things drift a lot.
>
>
>
>>The GPS stabilization seems good until you realize that if you are IFR
>>and lose GPS you lose your reference and the drift will kill you.
>>
>>
>
>No kidding. Will probably require a pretty innovative approach to cope
>with this. I got really interested in this after looking at some of
>the new electronic widgets available now. I may never build what I
>have in mind, but I'm going to study the problem until I understand its
>pros and cons.
>
>
>
These folks have actually got one of the solidstate
gyro/aclerometer/magnetotmer attitude heading
reference systems to hover a helecopter for an extended period. It's a
good source for information
on integrating these systems to produce attitude and heading data. It's
no trivial.
http://autopilot.sourceforge.net/
The cheapest integrated system I've seen to date is at. The may not be
in production yet.
http://cgi.nweaa.org/nweaa/exhibitors/site.eaa?ExhibitorURL=http://www.dynondevelopment.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wind driven power source? |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Karl Schneider (gpsmurf(at)ev1.net) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 09:15:54
>
>Thursday, February 20, 2003
>
>Karl Schneider
>
>,
>Email: gpsmurf(at)ev1.net
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>Has anyone ever tried using a wind driven alternator rather than a wind
>driven generator? I have a 40 year old Baby Ace with an A-65 engine and
>want an electrical power source to keep my battery charged. The
>alternators I have found are lighter, cheaper and more powerful than the
>old wind generators I have found and those with a built in regulator seem
>easy to hook up. Also, I think I could turn it at lower RPM and have
>slightly less drag.
How much current do you want to get? Keep in mind
that the output is probably more limited by the
size of the blades (which relate directly to how
much horsepower you're going to sap from the
slipstream). I know of no automotive alternators
that you'd really want to bolt to the belly along
with a propeller that would take advantage of the
alternator's true capabilities.
Let's put some bounds on the electrical size and
then see what that translates to in terms of
mechanical size.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
Hi Bob -
I vote we keep things as they are now.
You have a unique knack for simplifying and explaining our electrical
systems' architectures and components. When I go to the "Connection"
I know exactly where the "nuts 'n' bolts" chapters are, and where the
theory/historical chapters are. I very much like having them both in
one book but don't necessarily take them in equal doses.
A few months back a list-member asked about the acronym "pidg". Being
curious I went to chapter 9 and there is was on page 9-4 in bold,
capitol type - Yes!
So the list-members too, through give and take, play a large part in
my education.
Bob, the AEC you've created is a big, big deal and it's working very well.
Thank you -
Bill Mills
RANS Courier/912uls in progress
SF bay area Calif
---------snip-----------------
> Your comment about, "book 1 for background
> reading when I've got more spare time" caught
> my attention. It's been my experience as
> student, teacher and practitioner that the
> "spare time" almost never comes later. If
> it's not part of the curriculum, the follow-up
> will rarely happen, if ever.
>
> You folks are the customers. The 'Connection and
> the website are as much yours as they are mine.
> Let's push them ahead together.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Solid State Gyro Components |
Steve,
You might look at the archives of the Matronics Avionics list. There isn't
much activity, but there have been discussions of solid state gyros in the
past.
Terry
* AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon
I'm interested in locating some pointers to solid state gyro
components.
* Thanks,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glikar <glikar(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid State Gyro Components |
Hi, been playing with gyros recently. You may find these links interesting.
http://autopilot.sourceforge.net/ahrs.html
The gyration gyros are 3 axis and very sensitive, I've got 4 of these.
http://www.gyration.com/technology.htm
http://www.electronic-engineering.ch/study/ins/ins.html
Gord
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | 12 volts to 28 volts |
As the owner of a nice 28 volt Bendix-King KY-196, I would like to install
it in my 12 volt RV-8 under construction. Where could I buy a device to step
up the voltage from 12 to 28 volts, or where can I find plans to build a
device that will work for a com radio? Also, I would appreciate any real
world advice from those who have tried it. By the way, I have an email to
Sure Power, who builds such devices, but they have not responded yet with a
recommendation.
Stephen Soule
Huntington, Vermont
12 volts to 28 volts
As the owner of a nice 28 volt Bendix-King KY-196, I would like to install it in
my 12 volt RV-8 under construction. Where could I buy a device to step up the
voltage from 12 to 28 volts, or where can I find plans to build a device that
will work for a com radio? Also, I would appreciate any real world advice from
those who have tried it. By the way, I have an email to Sure Power, who builds
such devices, but they have not responded yet with a recommendation.
Stephen Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
"'Lancair Mailing List'"
Got the panel fired up for the first time today. How exciting :)
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net\
Lancair Legacy
http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Milestone in history of the 'Connection |
To which I can only add "Amen"
Bill Lamb
Wiring my Mustang II and loving it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Milestone in history of the 'Connection
>
> Hi Bob -
>
> I vote we keep things as they are now.
> You have a unique knack for simplifying and explaining our electrical
> systems' architectures and components. When I go to the "Connection"
> I know exactly where the "nuts 'n' bolts" chapters are, and where the
> theory/historical chapters are. I very much like having them both in
> one book but don't necessarily take them in equal doses.
>
> A few months back a list-member asked about the acronym "pidg". Being
> curious I went to chapter 9 and there is was on page 9-4 in bold,
> capitol type - Yes!
> So the list-members too, through give and take, play a large part in
> my education.
> Bob, the AEC you've created is a big, big deal and it's working very well.
>
> Thank you -
> Bill Mills
> RANS Courier/912uls in progress
> SF bay area Calif
>
> ---------snip-----------------
>
> > Your comment about, "book 1 for background
> > reading when I've got more spare time" caught
> > my attention. It's been my experience as
> > student, teacher and practitioner that the
> > "spare time" almost never comes later. If
> > it's not part of the curriculum, the follow-up
> > will rarely happen, if ever.
> >
> > You folks are the customers. The 'Connection and
> > the website are as much yours as they are mine.
> > Let's push them ahead together.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Sorry, link:
http://shannon.v8eaters.com/images/lancair/02_2003/panel_6.jpg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Shannon Knoepflein
Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel
Got the panel fired up for the first time today. How exciting :)
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net\
Lancair Legacy
http://www.lancaironline.net/pix/shannon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 58 Msgs - 02/19/03 |
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Milestone in history of the 'Connection
>
>
> ...
>
> I cut him a check and put it in the mail with a note
> hoping that his experiences with his airplane were
> "enjoyable and stress free." I've put his letter on the
> bulletin board over my desk. It's a "keeper". . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
Incredible. I expect there are many who feel they don't need to or want to
understand to put information to use, but I can't imagine having the nerve
to return the book, stains and all...
I'm not at all surprised you refunded his money...
You counldn't buy mine back!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Power Distribution |
Bob: Would like to run this by you one more time. I have included some of my
thought process on some items. Would appreciate your comments and
recommendations, I have also asked John Schroeder for his comments since Ron
and him are building a Lancair ES as well.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
# 1 POWER DISTRIBUTION BUS
Main Alt Fld 5A. Ford Motorcraft 60A 12vdc. Internal regulator. How is
Z-24 incorporated into Z-14 so as to behave like the Z-14, i.e., LO Voltage
sensor. Since this is not a LR3, would an ABMM be good here? Or should I just
ask my manufacturer to swap out the ford alternator for a B&C 60A?
Main Alt OV/LV sensor 2A? OV I know would take one of those crowbar modules.
Strobe light 7A. Opposed to the normal light s on the Lancair Es, I am
installing the three way lighting system. Where the Nav light would normally
go, I am putting some 55watt miniature white halogen lights which will be
used as taxi lights or sometimes know as runway turnoff lights. Left and
right taxi lights will have separate switches.
Landing Light 10A
NAV/POS lights will be wired together. 7A
Left/Right taxi lights 10A? I will have to check the spec sheet here for
these AutoZone lights. Question here is: Since I will have separate
switches,LT/RT, do I run both of the same fuse box circuit, or use separate
fuse for each side?
Electric Directional Gyro
Flap motor 5A
Flap indicator 2A
Pitot 10A
Cabin Fan 5A
Door seal Pump 5A
Cabin lights 5A will have four individual eyeball lights that have there own
on/off switch. Should run them all through one circuit i.e. a master on/off
power switch?
These lights are reading/map lights.
Cabin Dome light
Pitch trim 2A
Roll trim 2A
Yaw Trim 2A
Engine Gauges by Electronics International
Ultimate Bar graph
FP5-L
Oil/Temp
RPM
MAP
Electric DG
Starter 7A
Spare
Spare
#2 POWER DISTRIBUTION
Aux Alt Fld-B&C 20 amp, on the vacuum pad
Aux Alt Lo volt sensor
Garmin Aud/Com 340
Garmin GNS-530
Garmin GNS-430
Garmin GTX-327
Dynon EFIS D10
TruTrak Autopilot
Six pack lighting rings
GI-106A
GI-102
Electric Attitude Indicator
MAIN BATTERY BUS
Amp/Volt gauge: I can use a switch to read Aux battery, or utilize the
amp/volt function on the Dynon EFIS to read one of the systems.
GNS-530/430 memory
Clock
Fuel boost pump High/Low positions
Future Electronic Ignition
Power receptacle for handheld nav/com/gps
Looking at the above Bus, may have to go to a 10 fuse box
AUX BATTERY BUS
Hobbs meter
Future Electronic Ignition
Power receptacle for handheld nav/com/gps.
Cargo light-timer
Well there you have it. Now to complete the load analysis part of it.
Regards----Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Bob,
In a dual battery / dual alt system, why do you call it a Main & Aux bus?
In the dual/dual configuration the Aux bus isn't really for auxiliary (or
backup) power - its for primary power to the items on that bus. Either bus
is a backup to the other.
Wouldn't "bus one" and "bus two" (not to be confused with "thing one and
thing two" from my kids books) or "Left Bus & Right Bus", or "Big Bus &
Little Bus" or "Bus 60 & Bus 20" or something of the sort be more
descriptive?
- Jim -
Trying to decide on switch lables
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Bob: A few questions came up after attending your seminar.
> 1. Does the orientation of the different contactors
> make any difference. like upside down or sideways?
A popular myth . . . no.
> 2. Why not have an alternate feed path to the main buss instead of
> the essential buss. Pull the field breaker if necessary and then turn
> things off that are not needed.
Rather than "essential bus", let's call it the "endurance bus". Things
chosen to power from there are the minimum devices needed for an en route
mode until airport-in-sight . . . after you are cleared to land, turn
the main bus back on and run anything that the battery still has
enough energy to support. The SECOND duty of alternate feed path
is to provide a means for getting to airport of intended destination
if the battery contactor is lost.
> You could then select what you need at the time for the conditions you
> are in.
The configuration suggested minimizes the decision making and
need to analyze/fiddle with things in flight.
If Low volts light ON then
E-bus alternate feed - ON,
DC PWR Master - OFF
Continue to airport in sight.
Get clearance to land
DC PWR Master - ON
. . . what happens after this is immaterial to
the outcome of the flight.
This support the notion that it is possible to predict
what's needed for comfortable en route (and perhaps
a reduced performance arrival) in advance. Have
the plan in place for simple manipulation of controls
and concentrate on being a pilot instead of a
systems manager.
> another thought: what happens if you have both the master Battery contactor
> on and also the alt essential buss feed switch at the same time, anything?
E-bus voltage rises about 0.6 volts . . . otherwise, nothing
noteworthy . . .
> What if the alt feed is coming from a different battery?
No problem, it can come from ANY battery . . . the diode prevents
the alternate feed path from being used to power anything other
than e-bus loads.
> 3 If you have two low voltage warning lights, one for each of
> the two alternators and a voltmeter on the essential bus,
> wouldnt that cover all you really need to know about the status
> of your charging systems and condition of the battey.
You betcha . . . I would be quite comfortable with an airplane
equipped as you describe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Well, I didn't think the outcome was too bad, or I guess it would have
>caught my attention before. It didn't really sink in until I saw your
>post and pix on the subject. The shield twisted without much effort,
>and the pin seemed to grip well. However, I didn't insulate them with
>heatshrink like I "at least" should have.
>
>As far as being happy...what you show is a lot nicer now that I think
>about it, but I'm not sure I really perceive any problems though. I
>think I'll probably go back and heat shrink them all, and call it good.
>That should keep any strands from getting their own ideas....
I think that works. It doesn't sound like taking hammer-n-saw
to it now would be a good investment of time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans - Peter Reusser" <hpreusser(at)tiscalinet.ch> |
Could anyone give me some advice on the following subject?
I'm building a whelen wing strobelight system in to my Europa XS. As I mount
the power sply. at about half span in to the wing, (trough the ail.
bellcrank acess door), I would like to have a connector for the feeder and
the high tension leeds for ease of maint.
Now my question? Is it possible to go with the 2 feeder wires and the 3 high
tension wires through one single 5 pin connector? or would I risk to get
radio interference from this layout?
What kind of connector should I use for it, or if I need to seperate the
installation, what kind of connector is necessary for the high tension
leeds?
Many thanks, Hans-Peter, Europa XS, Mono, 700 hrs buildtime
*****************************************************************
Hans-Peter und Christa Reusser Tel: +41 (33) 654 00 24
Spiezbergstr. 13 Fax: +41 (33) 654 30 21
3700 Spiez E-mail: hpreusser(at)tiscalinet.ch
*****************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | sealed connectors |
<The "USCAR" connectors use a shroud over the seal to protect against water
>>>>>spray.>>
Welcome to the Black Hole of automotive connectors. It is a difficult
morass to traverse as many of the connectors are custom-designed and are not
available to the public. Many others are only available in one half as the
other mate is always integrated into some device (like our sensors). The
most readily available connector is from Packard Electric, a division of
Delphi Automotive (www.delphiauto.com), as they put just about every type in
their catalog and they sell through Pioneer-Standard
(www.pioneer-standard.com). Their current line does NOT meet the "USCAR"
standards and mostly are not available with gold pins. However, I wouldn't
be worried about using them in any but the most intense vibration or
water-spray environments. AMP, a division of TYCO, is probably worldwide
the most commonly used USCAR connector and you can find their products in
Mouser, Newark and others. The big problem is that their sealed automotive
connectors aren't there and you will have a terrible time trying to get them
at a reasonable price. I recently had to buy 1,000 directly from TYCO as an
OEM purchase just to get 25. However, with appropriate wandering through
their website (www.tycoint.com), also not easy, you can sometimes get them
to send you a few free samples which might be all you need. With all these
connector suppliers to find inline connectors (both mating pairs) in a
variety of pin numbers is not easy. Packard has a reasonable variety of
1,2,3, and 4-pin types. TYCO, as I recall, has 2,3 and 4-pin versions.
Sometimes there are more, sometimes not. Yazaki is another big supplier in
Detroit and a division of Sylvania is also in there. Deutsch
(http://www.deutschipd.com/) is one of the best, but I haven't worked my
way through their website. The list goes on.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sealed connectors |
I have used those watertight connectors all throughout my plane. Every place
where moisture is present like tail feathers to fuselage/ wings to
fuselage/landing light etc. You can buy them at auto parts stores. I got mine
at a Federated jobber but I have seen them at NAPA too. These plugs are the
ones used in sensors and have O rings for a sealing device and are a positive
lock, almost too positive. They come in 1,2,3,and four wire configs.
JT&T is the name on the package but I am not sure if they are the
manufacturer. When the parts store opens this mornin I will get you guys the
part numbers for those. I have to warn ya they are not cheap, seems to me
they were 12-17$ for each mating pair. They do have 14ga pig tails on them
so they were perfect for my strobes/fuel senders/nav lights position
lights,trim servos and other stuff. Seeya. Ben Haas. N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>
>In a dual battery / dual alt system, why do you call it a Main & Aux bus?
When one of the alternators is much smaller than the other,
the notion is that the big kahuna is the "main" alternator
and the smaller is an auxiliary support device. This doesn't
mean that both cannot or should not have 100% duty cycle
tasks as depicted in Z-14 . . .
>In the dual/dual configuration the Aux bus isn't really for auxiliary (or
>backup) power - its for primary power to the items on that bus. Either bus
>is a backup to the other.
>
>Wouldn't "bus one" and "bus two" (not to be confused with "thing one and
>thing two" from my kids books) or "Left Bus & Right Bus", or "Big Bus &
>Little Bus" or "Bus 60 & Bus 20" or something of the sort be more
>descriptive?
We do Right/Left for equal sized systems . . . I suppose
a tandem twin might go Forward/Aft. But like naming your
kids, the bottom line is that you can name them anything
you like.
Bob . . .
|-------------------------------------------------------|
| The man who does not read good books has no advantage |
| over the man who cannot read them. |
| - Mark Twain |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | sealed connectors |
I've been using some Deutsch IPD connectors. They're sealed, use high
quality solid pins and sockets, and are easy to buy in small quantities
from www.laddinc.com. The DTM series are good up to 7.5 amps, DT up to
13 amps. These are both plastic connectors. They also have round
connectors in both plastic and aluminum.
Dave in Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Distribution |
>
>Bob: Would like to run this by you one more time. I have included some of my
>thought process on some items. Would appreciate your comments and
>recommendations, I have also asked John Schroeder for his comments since Ron
>and him are building a Lancair ES as well.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ed Silvanic
>
># 1 POWER DISTRIBUTION BUS
>
>Main Alt Fld 5A. Ford Motorcraft 60A 12vdc. Internal regulator. How is
>Z-24 incorporated into Z-14 so as to behave like the Z-14, i.e., LO Voltage
>sensor. Since this is not a LR3, would an ABMM be good here?
With an internally regulated alternator, you remove the Z-14
alternators and regulators and drop in Z-24 to replace them. You
then have to ADD LV warning which can be accomplished with
the LVWarn/ABMM or similar product.
> Or should I just
>ask my manufacturer to swap out the ford alternator for a B&C 60A?
The B&C alternator will probably run the lifetime of your
airplane. Wouldn't give you $20 for a boat load of Fords.
>Main Alt OV/LV sensor 2A?
This lead draws less than 1A . . . any
size from 5A (22AWG limited) down will be fine.
>OV I know would take one of those crowbar modules.
Yes, for Z-24
>Strobe light 7A.
Okay
> Opposed to the normal lights on the Lancair Es, I am
>installing the three way lighting system. Where the Nav light would normally
>go, I am putting some 55watt miniature white halogen lights which will be
>used as taxi lights or sometimes know as runway turnoff lights. Left and
>right taxi lights will have separate switches.
Fine
>Landing Light 10A
>
>NAV/POS lights will be wired together. 7A
>
>Left/Right taxi lights 10A? I will have to check the spec sheet here for
>these AutoZone lights. Question here is: Since I will have separate
>switches,LT/RT, do I run both of the same fuse box circuit, or use separate
>fuse for each side?
I like to power each device through it's own
circuit protection and control. Position lights
are the notable exception.
>Electric Directional Gyro
>Flap motor 5A
>Flap indicator 2A
>Pitot 10A
>Cabin Fan 5A
>Door seal Pump 5A
>Cabin lights 5A will have four individual eyeball lights that have there own
>on/off switch. Should run them all through one circuit i.e. a master on/off
>power switch?
>These lights are reading/map lights.
>Cabin Dome light
>Pitch trim 2A
>Roll trim 2A
>Yaw Trim 2A
>Engine Gauges by Electronics International
>Ultimate Bar graph
>FP5-L
>Oil/Temp
>RPM
>MAP
>Electric DG
>Starter 7A
>Spare
>Spare
>#2 POWER DISTRIBUTION
>
>Aux Alt Fld-B&C 20 amp, on the vacuum pad
>Aux Alt Lo volt sensor
>Garmin Aud/Com 340
>Garmin GNS-530
>Garmin GNS-430
>Garmin GTX-327
>Dynon EFIS D10
>TruTrak Autopilot
>Six pack lighting rings
>GI-106A
>GI-102
>Electric Attitude Indicator
>
>MAIN BATTERY BUS
>
>Amp/Volt gauge: I can use a switch to read Aux battery, or utilize the
>amp/volt function on the Dynon EFIS to read one of the systems.
>GNS-530/430 memory
>Clock
>Fuel boost pump High/Low positions
>Future Electronic Ignition
>Power receptacle for handheld nav/com/gps
>
>Looking at the above Bus, may have to go to a 10 fuse box
>
>AUX BATTERY BUS
>
>Hobbs meter
>Future Electronic Ignition
>Power receptacle for handheld nav/com/gps.
>Cargo light-timer
>
>Well there you have it. Now to complete the load analysis part of it.
>Regards----Ed
>
Looks good at first blush. Load Analysis is the
true acid test.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe wireing |
>
>
>Could anyone give me some advice on the following subject?
>
>I'm building a whelen wing strobelight system in to my Europa XS. As I mount
>the power sply. at about half span in to the wing, (trough the ail.
>bellcrank acess door), I would like to have a connector for the feeder and
>the high tension leeds for ease of maint.
>Now my question? Is it possible to go with the 2 feeder wires and the 3 high
>tension wires through one single 5 pin connector? or would I risk to get
>radio interference from this layout?
>What kind of connector should I use for it, or if I need to seperate the
>installation, what kind of connector is necessary for the high tension
>leeds?
Don't understand. The power supply already has
connectors right on it. Do I deduce that you want to
run short leads from two connectors into a single
connector? If so, the gain in convenience is low,
increase in parts count drives reliability down.
But if you gotta do this, a 5-pin plastic connector
would function with low risk of noise problems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
>
>
>As the owner of a nice 28 volt Bendix-King KY-196, I would like to install
>it in my 12 volt RV-8 under construction. Where could I buy a device to step
>up the voltage from 12 to 28 volts, or where can I find plans to build a
>device that will work for a com radio? Also, I would appreciate any real
>world advice from those who have tried it. By the way, I have an email to
>Sure Power, who builds such devices, but they have not responded yet with a
>recommendation.
KGS makes a line of these. A 6A device is about $600 dealer net.
If you could get a toroidal core wound with right amount of
wire, the rest of a two-transistor, saturated core power
oscillator is pretty easy to fabricate. We built hundreds of
these things for various power conditioning/conversion tasks
back in the 70's and 80's
You could dig through the application notes from Linear
Technology and perhaps come up with a circuit using a
more modern, high frequency, switch-mode power supply.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Mechanical A/H backup |
Cheers,
"I have no idea how the "big boys" do AHRS systems in a Boeing, but they
always have a mechanical gyro backup.
Just a few things to consider."
Boeing have no choice - it's mandated.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim V. Wickert" <JimW_btg(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
If yoiu are in to building your own Radio Shack has a book Building Power
Supplies that also has several chapters and projects to build step down and
step up converters. They include both the design theory, the actual
schematics and BOM's for each design and several version of each as well
for various current requirements. Quite easy to understand.
New Second Edition, PTNO. 62-1337, by David Lines, Published by Master
Publishing, Inc., Lincolnwood IL, I got mine for $1.97 at my local Radio
Shack about three weeks ago.
Jim Wickert
Vision #159
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mechanical A/H backup |
In a message dated 2/21/03 9:33:53 AM Central Standard Time, VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
writes:
> Boeing have no choice - it's mandated.
> Ferg
>
Good Morning Ferg,
I agree that a standby attitude instrument is required equipment, but does it
have to be a gyro?
I think there are solid state devices that are approved for the backup unit.
However, the prices I have seen were between twenty-five and forty-five
thousand US dollars per unit.
Makes for a rather high priced back up for we little guys. On top of that,
all that I have seen required twenty-eight volts for power.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ford alternator vs B&C |
In a message dated 2/21/2003 9:04:04 AM Central Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> Looks good at first blush. Load Analysis is the
> true acid test.
>
Bob:
Thanks for looking at my second pass. Now I will rap up the load analysis for
the true test. Were you suggesting and/or recommending the swap out of the
Ford Alternator for the B&C? I'll see if the manufacturer will do that.
Probably not much of a credit, perhaps I should just try to sell it on E-Bay.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | B&C Alternators 60A/20A |
Bob:
Before you even get a chance of answering my last question. What are
the model numbers/prices of the B&C 60A/20A alternators for a Continental
IO-520 "D" engine. The 20A going on the vacuum pad, and the 60A would replace
the belt driven Ford Motorcraft.
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wind driven power source? |
>Bob,
>First, thanks for the reply.
>As far as output, I think 15 amps (plus or minus a few) would drive
>lights, radio, Xponder, and an electronic ignition (far into the
>future). Most of the automotive alternators weigh I've checked from 9.5
>to 12 pounds and put out a max of 50 to 60 amps (way too much). There are
>light weight aircraft alternators I've seen but, the cost is over the
>top. I can go a few more pounds for the difference in cost ($25 or so
>versus $300).
>I'm guessing a blade small enough to turn it at 1000 RPM would provide all
>the power I need and I have a good mounting place on the gear that could
>handle that (the gear is virtually a copy of an early Cub).
>Thanks again, Karl
Minimum speed for output voltage on most
alternators will be something on the order
of 3,000 rpm. Minimum speed for full output
is on the order of 5,000 rpm. For example,
a 40A Nipon-Denso running at about 3,900
rpm gives you 20A . . . you can probably
count on 15A with with perhaps 3,500 rpm.
15A at 14 volts is 210 watts output. Assuming
60% efficiency in alternator at this edge of
the envelope operation, and 50% efficiency
in a propeller, you'll have to take 700 watts
of energy out of the slip stream . . . almost
1 h.p.
I'd have to dig out the books to see how
big a propeller this is for an 80 mph
airplane . . . but I suspect it's
pretty breathtaking. Have you considered
finding a -12 accessory case for your
engine?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Alternators 60A/20A |
>
>Bob:
>
> Before you even get a chance of answering my last question. What are
>the model numbers/prices of the B&C 60A/20A alternators for a Continental
>IO-520 "D" engine. The 20A going on the vacuum pad, and the 60A would replace
>the belt driven Ford Motorcraft.
SD-20 on teh vacuum pump pad. L-60 for the belt driven. Don't
know if B&C has brackets to attach L-60 to your engine. We have
an L-60 on the back of a Continental powered Bonanza at
RAC . . . I think our shops had to fabricate a bracket. Call
B&C at 316.283.8000 and get more details.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford alternator vs B&C |
>
>In a message dated 2/21/2003 9:04:04 AM Central Standard Time,
>bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > Looks good at first blush. Load Analysis is the
> > true acid test.
> >
>
>Bob:
>
>Thanks for looking at my second pass. Now I will rap up the load analysis for
>the true test. Were you suggesting and/or recommending the swap out of the
>Ford Alternator for the B&C? I'll see if the manufacturer will do that.
>Probably not much of a credit, perhaps I should just try to sell it on E-Bay.
That's what I'd do if it were my airplane. OTOH, you
may find yourself at the upper end of the bell-curve
on Ford alternator longevity . . . given that you already
have it, -AND FURHTER- you plan dual alternators, there
is little risk in running the Ford. You can make your
repair/replace decision based on experience
as opposed to anyone else's personal preferences.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike.weed(at)acterna.com |
| Subject: | avionics mounting |
Is there a standard for mounting screw distances between centers and front
to back spacing for avionics? I know there are standards for the Dzus
mount style, but what about the "normal" stuff. I'm looking for something
similar to the EIA-310 standard for rack mount equipment. In other words,
can I make up a set of tapped rails for the avionics stack and know that
everything will line up? Or is everything "line drilled"?
Thanks,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Bob:
This is a reply from Electronics International, concerning my volt/amp
gauge.
Ed
From: "EI Tech Support" <Sales@Buy-Ei.com>
Subject: RE: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:17:10 -0800
Ed -
Thank you for your email. I am unaware of a voltammeter that will read
correctly from two different shunts that have different shunt values.
As far shunts are concerned, there are no "correct" or "incorrect" shunt
values. The only concern is that you select a shunt that will accommodate
your generator or alternator. In your case, you have 60 Amp and 20 Amp
alternators. You will need to select at least a 60 Amp shunt to accommodate
both.
There are two possible installations that come to mind when I picture your
system. If the two alternators feed into one line that goes to the bus, you
can get away with installing one shunt in the line after both alternators.
If, however, the two alternators are parallel and feed into separate lines
that both go to the bus, you will need two shunts.
Electronics International's Voltammeter's will not read from two different
shunts that have different shunt values. A possible solution to the second
installation would be to install two S-50 shunts and one VA-1A-50. Both
shunts have the same value and the instrument will read both of them. You
could then install an RSVA-2 switch to select between the two systems. You
could also install a third shunt in your battery lead and install an RSVA-3
switch.
The shunts I mentioned retail for $35. The switches are each $100. The
instrument retails for $342.
If you have any questions, or if I can be of any assistance, please don't
hesitate to contact me.
Tyler Speed
Electronics International Inc.
63296 Powell Butte Highway
Bend, OR 97701
Phone: (541) 318-6060
Fax: (541) 318-7575
Web: <http://www.buy-ei.com/> www.Buy-Ei.com
-----Original Message-----
From: N823ms(at)aol.com [mailto:N823ms(at)aol.com]
Subject: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring
Hey Guys,
I am beginning to install and wire up my instrument panel for a
Lancair ES. I will be running an all electric airplane, i.e. 60A/20A
alternators. What is the correct shunt for these alternators? Lancair sent
me the volt/amp gauge with the external shunt 60A/100mv. I have seen where
yo can install a switch so as to read either the 60A alt, or the 20A alt
system. With the current shunt, I believe this means that at full amp load,
60amp system, a full deflection on the gauge would occur. Flip the switch
and now full deflection would mean a 20amp load. So with that in mind,
unless there is specific required shunt, if I get the 60A/50mv shunt, would
this mean that the gauge would indicate a full load of 60amps with a half
deflection on the gauge? If so, then anything further would indicate a load
of more than 60A/20A respectively as the gauge went toward a full
deflection. Is this something I would want to be aware of should I
temporarily exceed? Do you have the electrical schematics for wiring a
switch so as to read either system? What kind of amperage rating is on this
gauge? I will be installing in the future a Dynon EFIS -10, which has a
function of reading volts/amps. Until then I'll have to use the switch
method, or even do both if that is possible so as to have a back up if
either gauge was to fail.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
Ed -
Thank you for your email. I am
unaware of a voltammeter that will read correctly from two different shunts
that have different shunt values.
As far shunts are concerned, there are
no
correct or incorrect shunt values. The only
concern is that you select a shunt that will accommodate your generator or
alternator. In your case, you have 60 Amp and 20 Amp alternators.
You will need to select at least a 60 Amp shunt to accommodate both.
There are two possible installations
that
come to mind when I picture your system. If the two alternators feed into
one line that goes to the bus, you can get away with installing one shunt in
the line after both alternators. If, however, the two alternators are
parallel and feed into separate lines that both go to the bus, you will need
two shunts.
Electronics International's Voltammeter's
will not read from two different shunts that have different shunt values.
A possible solution to the second installation would be to install two S-50
shunts and one VA-1A-50. Both shunts have the same value and the
instrument will read both of them. You could then install an RSVA-2
switch to select between the two systems. You could also install a third
shunt in your battery lead and install an RSVA-3 switch.
The shunts I mentioned retail for
$35. The switches are each $100. The instrument retails for $342.
If you have any questions, or if I can
be
of any assistance, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Tyler Speed
Electronics
International Inc.
63296
Powell Butte Highway
Bend, OR 97701
Phone: (541) 318-6060
Fax: (541) 318-7575
Web: www.Buy-Ei.com
-----Original Message-----
From: N823ms(at)aol.com [mailto:N823ms(at)aol.com]
10:20 PM
Subject: amp/volt gauge/ shunts
and wiring
Hey Guys,
I am beginning to install and wire up my
instrument panel for a Lancair ES. I will be running an all electric airplane,
i.e. 60A/20A alternators. What is the correct shunt for these alternators?
Lancair sent me the volt/amp gauge with the external shunt 60A/100mv. I have
seen where yo can install a switch so as to read either the 60A alt, or the=2020A
alt system. With the current shunt, I believe this means that at full amp load,
60amp system, a full deflection on the gauge would occur. Flip the switch and
now full deflection would mean a 20amp load. So with that in mind, unless there
is specific required shunt, if I get the 60A/50mv shunt, would this mean that
the gauge would indicate a full load of 60amps with a half deflection on the
gauge? If so, then anything further would indicate a load of more than 60A/20A
respectively as the gauge went toward a full deflection. Is this something I
would want to be aware of should I temporarily exceed? Do you have the
electrical schematics for wiring a switch so as to read either system? What
kind of amperage rating is on this gauge? I will be installing in the future a
Dynon EFIS -10, which has a function of reading volts/amps. Until then I'll
have to use the switch method, or even do both if that is possible so as to
have a back up if either gauge was to fail.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Common Ground/Ground power contactor# |
Bob:
You mentioned awhile back about a common ground point for people who
install their batteries in the back such as I will with this Lancair ES. What
device would you use as a common ground point? Second, you mentioned then to
run 4AWG wire to the front from the battery contactors to the cross-feed
contactor. Since I have abundant amount of welding 2awg cable; would it be ok
to use this vise 4awg.
Thanks
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: avionics mounting |
>
>Is there a standard for mounting screw distances between centers and front
>to back spacing for avionics? I know there are standards for the Dzus
>mount style, but what about the "normal" stuff. I'm looking for something
>similar to the EIA-310 standard for rack mount equipment. In other words,
>can I make up a set of tapped rails for the avionics stack and know that
>everything will line up? Or is everything "line drilled"?
I suspect it's pretty much drill-to-match. We ARE fortunate
that they settled on a common width. . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
N823ms(at)undoubtedly.com wrote:
>Electronics International's Voltammeter's will not read from two
>different
>shunts that have different shunt values.
---
I'm sure Bob will give you the scoop on this, but for my own
clarification, is the EI instrument truly a two in one? That is, it
has two scales, one for voltage and the other for current? If so, are
there 4 terminals, or 3 terminals or what?
In any event, this kind of ammeter is really a voltmeter anyway. It
reads the voltage across the shunt and reports the value in amps, only
because of the scale provided on the instrument, and is often called an
ammeter. If it also reads voltage, it undoubtedly has at least 3
terminals and a separate calibration resistor for the voltage scale,
probably internal.
You may be able to use two shunts quite easily if each has the shunt
value required to read full scale @ 60 A on one and 20 A on the
other. Whether that's wise may also be another matter. And if the
scale is wrong for the two different ammeter values, that might be
problematic -- you might rescale it for % of capacity?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Thanks for your comments. I am doing the Z-14 system. I have the gauge
already, I'll just have to take a look at the schematics and determine what
exactly the capability of this gauge is.
Thanks,
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aeroelectric contactors/Z-14 |
Bob:
Do all the contactors for the Z-14 system come with the diodes?
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: avionics mounting |
In a message dated 2/21/03 1:42:21 PM Central Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> In other words,
> >can I make up a set of tapped rails for the avionics stack and know that
> >everything will line up? Or is everything "line drilled"?
>
Good Afternoon All,
Has anyone checked out the Radiorax Products?
I have set of their "experimental" version on the way.
We shall see what we shall see.
See them at www.radiorax.com
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans - Peter Reusser" <hpreusser(at)tiscalinet.ch> |
>Now my question? Is it possible to go with the 2 feeder wires and the 3
high
>tension wires through one single 5 pin connector? or would I risk to get
>radio interference from this layout?
>What kind of connector should I use for it, or if I need to seperate the
>installation, what kind of connector is necessary for the high tension
>leeds?
Don't understand. The power supply already has
connectors right on it. Do I deduce that you want to
run short leads from two connectors into a single
connector? If so, the gain in convenience is low,
increase in parts count drives reliability down.
But if you gotta do this, a 5-pin plastic connector
would function with low risk of noise problems.
Bob . . .
Thanks
I have the whelen A490T, CF which have no connectors on it but two cables
running out of them with plastic connectors on the high tension cable. This
cable is too short to reach the wingtip and too long to get at it trough the
access door. My plan is to shorten both cables from the pwr sply. and make
the connection close to the access door.
Hans-Peter...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | 12 volts to 28 volts |
Thanks for the information. Are you trying to use a 28 volt radio in a 12
system, too?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
New Second Edition, PTNO. 62-1337, by David Lines, Published by Master
Publishing, Inc., Lincolnwood IL, I got mine for $1.97 at my local Radio
Shack about three weeks ago.
Jim Wickert
Vision #159
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | sealed connector part #'s |
JT&T
2865F is a single connector
2866F double
2867F triple
2868F quad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric contactors/Z-14 |
>
>Bob:
>
>Do all the contactors for the Z-14 system come with the diodes?
>
>Ed Silvanic
If you order them from B&C, yes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe wireing |
>
>
>
> >Now my question? Is it possible to go with the 2 feeder wires and the 3
>high
> >tension wires through one single 5 pin connector? or would I risk to get
> >radio interference from this layout?
> >What kind of connector should I use for it, or if I need to seperate the
> >installation, what kind of connector is necessary for the high tension
> >leeds?
>
> Don't understand. The power supply already has
> connectors right on it. Do I deduce that you want to
> run short leads from two connectors into a single
> connector? If so, the gain in convenience is low,
> increase in parts count drives reliability down.
>
> But if you gotta do this, a 5-pin plastic connector
> would function with low risk of noise problems.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Thanks
>I have the whelen A490T, CF which have no connectors on it but two cables
>running out of them with plastic connectors on the high tension cable. This
>cable is too short to reach the wingtip and too long to get at it trough the
>access door. My plan is to shorten both cables from the pwr sply. and make
>the connection close to the access door.
Aha! That makes sense. Go ahead with what you've
suggested . . . it will be fine. Do you have access
to a source of plastic connectors like the Molex or
AMP Mate-n-Lock series? By the way, I got your book
dropped the mailbox a few minutes ago.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
National Semiconductor has always gotten the web,
I usually appreciate their efforts, but usually
take them for granted. Last night at robotics club
one guy reminded me about them.
http://www.national.com/appinfo/webench/power/SS/SS.cgi?flow=power&step=0A
This page, you enter your requirements, min/max
Volts in, V out, and current. It'll pick your
parts, and give you a design. Really impressive!
The best I could get for these requirements tho
was about 2A out. Might not be enough for a
comm radio.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
Before you start building a 12V to 24V converter check ASTRON 1212
converters. Their application is to convert positive ground 12 V into
negative ground 12 volt, for use in positive ground trucks, for driving
standard radio equipment. There are two models, one is good for
something around 6 or 8 amps and the other 1212-18 is good up to 18A.
It is easy to use this converters to get 24V. If you connect the
negative input of the converter to the plane's ground, connect the
ground wire of the converter to +13.5V battery line, you will get + 27V
between the output of the converter and the plane's ground. You would
pay around $130, if you buy the 18A version new from the company. But
if you check EBAY as I did, you can get it for $30.
The disadvantage of using it as I described is that you would have the
converter case floating at a hard 12V. It is not a big problem in a
composite plane but I hate if a box hangs out there at some hard
voltage. I opened the box and I found that the case is connected
only through four #6 screws holding the two pc boards. It is easy to
replace the steel screws with nylon and use nylon washers underneath the
mounting ears of the pc boards. Or use power transistor isolating
mounting plastic hardware and smaller steel screws. I did it the last
way because I did not have nylon screws at home but I had the plastic
sleeves for mounting transistors. Now, after checking with ohmmeter that
the case is really floating, you can connect the converter case to the
plane's ground , and it is all done.
I checked the converter and I was amazed by its good performance.
1) unlike most crude converters it takes very little current when the
output is not loaded.
2) it is electronically regulated and holds the output 12V voltage quite
rigid
3) it has decent filtering both on the input and on the output. It
shows very little ripple in mV range.The ripple frequency is around
500Hz I havent checked it with nav receivers yet, but considering small
ripple voltage I would be surprised if it caused troubles. If necessary,
an external filter in the power and output lines might help.
The smaller 1212 converter is more than sufficient to drive a 24V
navcom. I bought the big 1212-18 because it must also drive a 400Hz
converter for the gyros. The small converter cost from the factory is
somewhere around $70, but I am not very certain about that. Check
withAstron, Irvine California or hunt on Ebay.
Keep in mind that using this unorthodox type of arrangement one
connects 12V local battery IN SERIES with the regulated 12V output of
the converter. A purist might get not happy that the resulting total
output of 24V is not regulated since the battery is not regulated. But
the battery holds voltage in a narrow range and I have no problems with
that.
I work in electronics and initially I considered an idea of making 12V
to 24V converter because prices of aviation equipment are insane. I
immediately abandoned that idea as soon as I discovered Astron. I
thought it was worth the risk to buy it even factory new. Now after I
got it for $30 and it works as I thought it would, it seems that it was
one of my best recent deals.
I doubt if I would make a better and much cheaper converter and I know
that it would take me a lot of time, while moving the case ground of
the Astron converter took me only one evening, including all the
other testing and thinking.
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
Check out http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/dcdc.htm
DC-DC CONVERTERS
We currently offer 2 types of dc-dc converters.
1) A switched capacitor converter designed to be used with 24V turn and
slip indicators. In common with all switched capacitor type converters the
output voltage is less than 24V when on load. This normally present no
problems. This converter takes the form of a circuit board with mounting
pillars to allow direct mounting on the back of large turn and slip
indicators.
2) A switched inductor converter capable of producing any output voltage
upto 65V DC. Output current is dependant upon output voltage and ranges
from about 3 amps down to 1 amp at the higher output voltages. The output
voltage does not droop on load.
This converter is ideal for use with instruments which consume larger
currents, such as 14V or 28V DC artificial horizons, or 28VDC turn and slip
indicators. The converter is housed in a rugged diecast box with screw
locking connectors for the input and output leads. This converter is also
ideal for eliminating unreliable 14V batteries which are used solely for
powering 14VDC artificial horizons.
Switched Capacitor Converter 20
Switched Inductor Converter 70
>
>
>Before you start building a 12V to 24V converter check ASTRON 1212
>converters. Their application is to convert positive ground 12 V into
>negative ground 12 volt, for use in positive ground trucks, for driving
>standard radio equipment. There are two models, one is good for
> something around 6 or 8 amps and the other 1212-18 is good up to 18A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 12 volts to 28 volts |
One thing I forgot to add about Astron converter.
After you mount the pc boards on plastic shims and with insulating
hardware, trim the top edge of copper on the copper coated pc board with
several electrolytic caps on it. That board will be in contact with the
cover, and if copper is left to the very edge of the board that would
create big sparks when you power it. You can also glue electrical tape
or a plastic sheet
inside the cover where the cover might get in contact with the pc board.
The other board, at least in my converter, did not have copper coating
to the very top, so I did not change anything there.
You do not have to make any extra connection since the case was used
only as a shield, and there are connecting wires already in place.
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Common Ground/Ground power contactor# |
>
>Bob:
>
> You mentioned awhile back about a common ground point for people who
>install their batteries in the back such as I will with this Lancair ES. What
>device would you use as a common ground point?
A simple brass stud (5/16" or larger) with brass nuts
and washers could bring your battery (-) leads together.
This same stud could be a remote ground for your strobe
power supply and rear position light. Other remote devices
like pitot heat and tip lights might get a closer ground
at the firewall ground . . . in fact, I'd just run them
up there anyhow . . . ESPECIALLY the pitot heat which
draws a lot of current. It's magneitc effects will
be minimized if power and ground wires can stay in
close proximity for the furthest practical distance.
> Second, you mentioned then to
>run 4AWG wire to the front from the battery contactors to the cross-feed
>contactor. Since I have abundant amount of welding 2awg cable; would it be ok
>to use this vise 4awg.
Sure . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Steve,
The E.I. VA1A Volt/Amp instrument, which is the internal shunt model,
has two posts on the back that are hooked in series in the B lead
between the alternator and the main bus. There are two separate wires
that tap into the bus for the voltage reading.
Joel Harding
On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 12:54 PM, Canyon wrote:
>
>
> N823ms(at)undoubtedly.com wrote:
>> Electronics International's Voltammeter's will not read from two
>> different
>> shunts that have different shunt values.
> ---
> I'm sure Bob will give you the scoop on this, but for my own
> clarification, is the EI instrument truly a two in one? That is, it
> has two scales, one for voltage and the other for current? If so, are
> there 4 terminals, or 3 terminals or what?
>
> In any event, this kind of ammeter is really a voltmeter anyway. It
> reads the voltage across the shunt and reports the value in amps, only
> because of the scale provided on the instrument, and is often called an
> ammeter. If it also reads voltage, it undoubtedly has at least 3
> terminals and a separate calibration resistor for the voltage scale,
> probably internal.
>
> You may be able to use two shunts quite easily if each has the shunt
> value required to read full scale @ 60 A on one and 20 A on the
> other. Whether that's wise may also be another matter. And if the
> scale is wrong for the two different ammeter values, that might be
> problematic -- you might rescale it for % of capacity?
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans - Peter Reusser" <hpreusser(at)tiscalinet.ch> |
Aha! That makes sense. Go ahead with what you've
suggested . . . it will be fine. Do you have access
to a source of plastic connectors like the Molex or
AMP Mate-n-Lock series? By the way, I got your book
dropped the mailbox a few minutes ago.
Bob . . .
I have no access for the mentioned connectors, but thought of fitting MIL
Spec C26482 connectors rated at 700VDC 7,5amps, which I could by from a
swiss provider for a resonable price.(I was thinking of connecting the
shield of the HF-cable outside the connector.) Would they do the job?
Hans-Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Joel Harding wrote:
>Steve,
>The E.I. VA1A Volt/Amp instrument, which is the internal shunt model,
>has two posts on the back that are hooked in series in the B lead
>between the alternator and the main bus. There are two separate wires
>that tap into the bus for the voltage reading.
>
>Joel Harding
---
Hi Joel,
If that is the case, it won't work with external shunts at all (without
modification). I thought the response he got from E.I. indicated it
would work with one external shunt. If it will work with one external
shunt, it can be made to work with two, or more, but obviously would
require a switch between the them and a scale change to reflect the
actual current or a flag on the meter, at least.
But, I'm getting confused as to why the question of the mfg would
produce the answer he got. Maybe he has a different model #? Maybe I
misunderstood the whole thing. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe wireing |
Hans Peter,
contact http://www.tycoelectronics.ch, they are the distributor of AMP
products in Switzerland and can tell you where to get it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans - Peter Reusser" <hpreusser(at)tiscalinet.ch>
Subject: AW: AW: AeroElectric-List: Strobe wireing
>
>
> Aha! That makes sense. Go ahead with what you've
> suggested . . . it will be fine. Do you have access
> to a source of plastic connectors like the Molex or
> AMP Mate-n-Lock series? By the way, I got your book
> dropped the mailbox a few minutes ago.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I have no access for the mentioned connectors, but thought of fitting MIL
> Spec C26482 connectors rated at 700VDC 7,5amps, which I could by from a
> swiss provider for a resonable price.(I was thinking of connecting the
> shield of the HF-cable outside the connector.) Would they do the job?
>
> Hans-Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ND alternator modification |
Bob,
I have a question regarding a new B&C Linear regulator as applied
to a Nippondenso alternator that I modified to change from internal regulation
to external regulation. In this particular model, one side of the field
was electrically connected to the B lead instead of ground.
I believe all the ND alternators do that . . .
Since this connection also provides mechanical support to the brush holder,
the only way to isolate the field from the B lead was to install nylon
shoulder washers between the terminal and the bolt and mating surfaces.
This has allowed me to connect this side of the field to ground. I've
run this ground connection through a 10 amp fuse so that if the isolation
fails the fuse will blow and now the field will once again have one terminal
connected to the B lead instead of ground.
Now, the question: If the isolation fails and the field is connected to
plus instead of ground, what happens, if anything, to the B&C regulator
that is driving the other terminal?
The system will shut down and it will not hurt the
regulator . . .
The ideal situation would be that the alternator shuts down because there
is now no current flowing through the field. A bad situation would be
reverse current flowing through the regulator causing either a runaway
alternator or a failed regulator.
That's what will happen . . .
If this is a problem, would installing a diode between the regulator and the
field cause problems during normal operation? I d prefer not to have a diode
there but if necessary I can install one.
Not necessary . . .
The good news is if the alternator fails it has the same connector
as the B&C 60-amp unit (is the B&C unit a rebuilt Nippondenso?) and I
have wired it the same way so a B&C will drop right in without any
wiring changes needed.
B&C starts out with brand new ND alternators and in addition
to a similar modification to rewire the field, they balance
rotors to about 10x tighter specs than as-produced. This
is essential for good bearing life at at the 10,000+ RPM
speeds we like to see at cruising speeds on a Lyc.
Thanks for all the good advice on your website. It s been most useful
in the design of the electrical system for the RV-7A I am building.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased that you find
the effort useful . . .
I'll suggest that you join us on the AeroElectric-List hosted
at matronics.com . . . this is a good place for questions like
this to be shared along with answers so that others can
benefit from the exchange.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 12 volts to 28 volts converter |
>
>
>As the owner of a nice 28 volt Bendix-King KY-196, I would like to install
>it in my 12 volt RV-8 under construction. Where could I buy a device to step
>up the voltage from 12 to 28 volts,
************************************
Stephen -
You did not say how much power you needed. If you are looking for 3A at 28V continous,
try vicorpower.com. Here are a couple of suggestions:
http://www.vicr.com/products/datasheets/ds_vi-200.pdf
P/N VI-J0L-EX-F2
http://www.vicr.com/products/datasheets/ds_vi-j00.pdf
P/N VI-J0L-EX-F2
12V input
28V output (24V available)
-10C to +100C operating (-40C or colder, storage temp available for us that need
it)
75W output
heatsink, 1" fin mod (heatsink)
80% to 85% efficiency (likely close to 85% at full load)
Either of the two units I suggested is rated for 75W. I suspect you would want
the heatsink option. The smaller one of the two (second one listed) is 3 oz
without the heatsink.
I did not run any of the heat transfer calcs on these modules. However, I did
run the heat transfer calcs on their 2nd generation, 400W modules (not suitable
for your application (12V input not available) and the best I can get with heatsinked,
natural convection is 150W. I would highly suggest you check their
applications data - lots available on their site - for power output with natural
convection. I have some of their other power supplies and it is good looking
industrial grade equipment - nothing second rate about it.
I don't know what the prices are for the suggested modules, but the quoted prices
for the 400W module I am looking at buying is $220 in single quanities. Could
be the 75W modules are reasonable and, if the price is reasonable, but one
isn't enough, they parallel easily.
I don't know that I would tell them I was building airplanes - probably something
like I was prototyping mobile equipment systems, which of course, is true.
If you call and get some prices, let us know.
If you need less current, I know of some other options.
carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 02/22/2003 4:43:19 PM Central Standard Time,
steve.canyon(at)verizon.net writes:
> Joel Harding wrote:
> >Steve,
> >The E.I. VA1A Volt/Amp instrument, which is the internal shunt model,
> >has two posts on the back that are hooked in series in the B lead
> >between the alternator and the main bus. There are two separate wires
> >that tap into the bus for the voltage reading.
> >
> >Joel Harding
> ---
>
The EI gauge I got from EI is the VA-1A-50. this is the external shunt model
and requires a S-50 shunt which is the 100mv/100AMP. Bench tested it today,
works just as advertised.
Ed SIlvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/22/03 9:03:28 PM Central Standard Time, N823ms(at)aol.com
writes:
> The EI gauge I got from EI is the VA-1A-50. this is the external shunt model
>
> and requires a S-50 shunt which is the 100mv/100AMP. Bench tested it today,
>
> works just as advertised.
>
> Ed SIlvanic
>
Good Evening Ed,
For what it's worth, I have an EI VA-1A-50 with a three way switch and three
shunts which allows me to check my Battery buss, Primary Alternator buss and
my B&C Standby Alternator buss.
Works like a charm!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 wires ...
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps which I
would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve panel real
estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second (aux) is only used
when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps five flights per year.
Both will be fed off the essential bus and I would like to have independent circuit
protection.
I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an appropriate selection.
I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off switch.
Any suggestions here?
Sam
Quickie Q-200 1,350 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ant. distance |
>
>I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
>and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
>approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
>two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
These systems are so far apart in operating frequency that
proximity to each other is pretty much a non-issue.
Comm antennas used to be mounted in pairs on top of Cessna
cabins with not much more separation with what appears
to be satisfactory performance. We did some pattern tests
with this antenna arrangement back in the 60's . . . don't
recall how much effect they had on each other. It
must have been pretty minimal since nobody got excited
enough about the test results to force repositioning
of the antennas.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10351 Watson |
>Comments/Questions: Wiring for folding wings.
>In the electronics industry (non-flying) whenever I need to bring a cable
>(wire bundle)
>across a hinge line, we always route it parallel to the hinge pin, and as
>close as possible.
>We then clamp it as far apart as practical. (ends of hinge line)
>This allows the wire to "TWIST", not bend, and twisted wire will withstand
>much
>more twisting than it will bending. Also, if the wing (lid, panel,etc) is
>detachable,
>the connector is placed between the two tiedown points, one of which is on the
>removeable part and the other on the base. The connector should NOT be
>located in
>the middle of the span, biasing it towards one end will minimize most
>vibration effects.
Good points. Thank you for sharing them with us.
When wires have to span across moving hardware,
they're always happier being twisted/untwisted
as opposed to longitudinal flexing.
Many times, I've found it possible to mount
connectors adjacent to but outside the "twist
zone" . . . it's generally necessary to remove
only one additional clamp or other wire bundle
support to de-mate the equipment.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
>
>
>I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps
>which I would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve
>panel real estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second
>(aux) is only used when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps
>five flights per year. Both will be fed off the essential bus and I would
>like to have independent circuit protection.
>
>I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an
>appropriate selection. I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off switch.
>
>Any suggestions here?
Would it matter/hurt if the main pump were running any time
aux pump was running? At 2-10 switch can give you an OFF-MAIN-BOTH
kind of opertation with the OFF position being at the bottom and
independent power circuits for both pumps.
If this isn't practical, then a 2-5 switch will let you
do an AUX-OFF-MAIN style of operation with each pump
operating independently of the other and never in
concert.
If you could use a single power source, the 2-10 can
be wired to operate as a single-pole, three-position
switch where you have OFF-MAIN-AUX operation with
the pumps never operating together.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Hi Bob -
What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings of the 3
shunts?
Thanks,
John Schroeder
>
>Good Evening Ed,
>
>For what it's worth, I have an EI VA-1A-50 with a three way switch and three
>shunts which allows me to check my Battery buss, Primary Alternator buss and
>my B&C Standby Alternator buss.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
Thanks for the speedy reply.
Holy permutations, Batman! I have three tanks, a six gallon gravity fed
header (fwd of C.G.), 16 gallon main (approx. on C.G.), and nine gallon
removable aux (aft of C.G.). Both the main and aux feed directly into the
header tank. In this configuration I can't run the main pump at the same
time as the aux. Since the aux is in the baggage compartment it should be
burned off first to maintain proper W&B.
On one hand, I'm looking for individual circuit protection because I would
hate to have two full fuel tanks and have none available due to a single
blown fuse. But, let's see... If I'm using the aux tank (1.75 hr. capacity)
unable to transfer fuel from the aux tank, for whatever reason, I would be
forced to land as soon as practical since further flight would only make it
more tail heavy. So yes, I would need dual circuit protection to ensure
that I can take fuel out of the main tank and send it forward to the header,
helping to maintain W&B.
I suppose I could re-plumb the hoses so the aux pumps into the main tank
instead of the header. If I did that, I could use your first 2-10
suggestion. I'll have to mull that one over.
Yes, I could use a 2-5. The only problem with that is the OFF will be in the
middle position instead of the down position. I prefer to use standard
positions, where down is always off. Not saying I wouldn't make an
exception, but if possible I would rather keep it standard.
Sam
(Soon to be selling several barely used circuit breakers)
> >
> >I have started re-wiring my Quickie Q-200. I have two transfer pumps
> >which I would like to control independently, with one switch (to preserve
> >panel real estate). One switch (main) gets used a lot and the second
> >(aux) is only used when the temporary aux fuel tank is installed, perhaps
> >five flights per year. Both will be fed off the essential bus and I
would
> >like to have independent circuit protection.
> >
> >I was looking at the switches in AEC and am not able to make an
> >appropriate selection. I think I am looking for a 2 pole ON-ON-Off
switch.
> >
> >Any suggestions here?
>
> Would it matter/hurt if the main pump were running any time
> aux pump was running? At 2-10 switch can give you an OFF-MAIN-BOTH
> kind of opertation with the OFF position being at the bottom and
> independent power circuits for both pumps.
>
> If this isn't practical, then a 2-5 switch will let you
> do an AUX-OFF-MAIN style of operation with each pump
> operating independently of the other and never in
> concert.
>
> If you could use a single power source, the 2-10 can
> be wired to operate as a single-pole, three-position
> switch where you have OFF-MAIN-AUX operation with
> the pumps never operating together.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/23/03 11:30:34 AM Central Standard Time,
jschroeder(at)perigee.net writes:
> What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings of the 3
> shunts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
>
>
Good Afternoon John,
The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849.
The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt.
The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50.
The S-50 is listed by EI as follows:
> S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used with a
> VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00
>
I also used an EI switch:
> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
> $98.00
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Hi Bob -
Thanks for the response. I'm beginning to understand this thread! One more
question:
When you are in each position of the 3-way switch, and with the amps function
selected on the instrument, do you read what looks like a % of the amps from
each source or do you read the amps that the sources are providing at the time
you are looking at the readout?
Thanks Again,
John
>Good Afternoon John,
>
>The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849.
>
>The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt.
>
>The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50.
>
>The S-50 is listed by EI as follows:
>
>> S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used with a
>> VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00
>>
>I also used an EI switch:
>
>> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
>> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
>> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
>> $98.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/23/03 1:06:59 PM Central Standard Time,
jschroeder(at)perigee.net writes:
> When you are in each position of the 3-way switch, and with the amps
> function
> selected on the instrument, do you read what looks like a % of the amps
> from
> each source or do you read the amps that the sources are providing at the
> time
> you are looking at the readout?
>
Good Afternoon John,
When in Batt position, it will show the output, if any, as a a minus flow
from the battery. If the battery is being charged, it will show the actual
charge current, in amps, to the closest tenth of an amp.
In the Primary or Standby position, it will show the total output of the
selected alternator. The readings are in amps to the closest tenth of an
amp.
When the VA switch is in the voltage position, it shows the voltage of the
whole system. There is no capability of showing any other voltage because
they are all hooked together!
My B&C is set up strictly as a back up alternator. If the voltage of the
system falls below 26 volts, for any reason, the B&C will begin to supply
current.
So far, for about four years and a thousand hours, it has worked flawlessly.
It even warned me of a drive clutch on the primary alternator starting to
slip.
I began to get an indication that the system was calling for the standby to
come on line at an RPM that it had not been calling for operation under
normal conditions. I pulled the primary alternator and my accessory guru
discovered a clutch that was starting to slip under very high loads.
I am very pleased with the unit and the counsel I have received from Bill
Bainbridge.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Well then old Bob, send me the type of switch and schematic.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/23/03 1:38:29 PM Central Standard Time, N823ms(at)aol.com
writes:
> Well then old Bob, send me the type of switch and schematic.
>
>
Good Afternoon Ed,
The switch is as a listed in the last communique and I wired it just as EI
suggested. I don't have the schematic with me just now.
> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator and
> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit. Body 1"
> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd, PMA'd.Price:
> $98.00
Works great!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Old Bob:
Thanks, I found the schematics within the box the gauge came in.
Thanks so much.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump(s) switch selection |
>
>
>Thanks for the speedy reply.
>
>Holy permutations, Batman! I have three tanks, a six gallon gravity fed
>header (fwd of C.G.), 16 gallon main (approx. on C.G.), and nine gallon
>removable aux (aft of C.G.). Both the main and aux feed directly into the
>header tank. In this configuration I can't run the main pump at the same
>time as the aux. Since the aux is in the baggage compartment it should be
>burned off first to maintain proper W&B.
>
>On one hand, I'm looking for individual circuit protection because I would
>hate to have two full fuel tanks and have none available due to a single
>blown fuse. But, let's see... If I'm using the aux tank (1.75 hr. capacity)
>unable to transfer fuel from the aux tank, for whatever reason, I would be
>forced to land as soon as practical since further flight would only make it
>more tail heavy. So yes, I would need dual circuit protection to ensure
>that I can take fuel out of the main tank and send it forward to the header,
>helping to maintain W&B.
Hmmmm . . . how about a relay with normally closed
contacts in series with main pump. Wire coil of
relay such that it energizes with aux pump. Then
wire 2-10 in first permutation OFF-MAIN-BOTH except
relay will shut down MAIN pump in BOTH postion making
it AUX only. Now, if power is lost to aux pump,
the main pump will not shut down even if you're in the
AUX (both) position.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PTACKABURY(at)aol.com |
Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to
seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how do
you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you
lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful airplane,
a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more added
every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something. My
wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am
considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future
electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat
shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I
wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but
nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats the
secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires
hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt?
Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
>
>Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to
>seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how do
>you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you
>lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful airplane,
>a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more added
>every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something. My
>wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am
>considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future
>electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat
>shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I
>wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but
>nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats the
>secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires
>hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt?
>Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul
Hmmmm . . . do you plan to revise/replace/modify system components
like blowers, trim actuators, etc. very often? I can sorta see where
avionics items or other whippy panel mounted gizmos can be in a
constant if slow state of flux . . . but their wires tend to be
short segments that are relatively easy to replace in their entirety.
If I understand the words with which you described your Ez project
conjures up some rather bizarre images.
I think terminal blocks with lots of screw fasteners are
rarely the solution to anything. When equipment items
such as trim actuators, blowers, fuel pumps, do not
come with service disconnects you can certainly add them
in the form of a connector. For multiple, low current wires
(less than 5a) you can do things like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
For heavier current, two or three-wire devices, knife
splices work pretty nice . . . For more wires in the
greater than 5A category, the AMP CPC Series I connectors
are reasonable in price and low cost tooling is available.
If you find yourself playing musical radios (or any
other panel mounted accessory), then you MIGHT benefit
from a set of cable connectors behind the radio that
simply provide a convenient place to open the wire
bundle and fabricate a new, short jumper cable to
accommodate the new radio . . . However, odds are that
a new radio will have some feature not supported in the
old bundle and you'll be doing some major rework
anyhow.
To reduce bulk in spiced wires, there is absolutely
nothing wrong with lap soldering 1/2" segments of
bare wires and covering with heatshrink. This IS
the essence of Raychem's popular solder sleeves for
joining conductors and insulating the joint with
a single, relatively easy to use but expensive
component. If you're doing just a few splices
then ordinary butt spices are no big deal. If
your doing a LOT of splices, then one would be
wise to consider cleaner ways to avoid splices
entirely.
The few times I've swapped out a radio in an airplane,
I pulled in all new wires for the installation.
Every splice, whether accomplished in a connector
or any other form adds joints and volume to the bundle
that degrades (as you have already observed) appearance,
and reliability. A strong sense of craftsmanship
will dictate that spontaneous eruptions of wire
splicing be kept to the most practical minimum.
If I were building an airplane I think I try
to practice high levels of craftsmanship for
airframe, systems AND wiring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PA-Glastar <paglastar(at)nationi.net> |
Bob, I was wondering how you were making out analyzing the
Eggenfellner/EXPbus design? I'm not flying yet but I have my
electrical design almost done using your Z-11a as the backbone.
Randy Gaugler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PTACKABURY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those
components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned
only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come with
wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and those
devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little
connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail so why not make
an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted
wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really need
to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather than
superbly flexible--maybe? paul
________________________________________________________________________________
Can someone tell me which is the smaller-diameter plug... the mic or the
headphones?
Jim Oberst
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headset wiring |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Jim,
The mic plug is smaller at .206 " with the larger phone weighing in at .25"
> Can someone tell me which is the smaller-diameter plug... the mic or the
> headphones?
>
> Jim Oberst
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
A friend told me today that new rules mandate the use of external antennas only
for ELTs. I've been unable to find confirmation of this. Does anyone have any
further information?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
Hi Paul,
Supurb work on your Long-EZ, I've appreciated your involvement (with
CSA) over the years!!
I have elected to use connectors in all (most) locations simply for the
purpose of maintenance. The mentioned devices inevitably have to come
out (or at least be moved out of the way) for some reason. I've enjoyed
being able to simply unplug the device and then just plug it back in
when finished (as opposed to have re-splicing all the wires).
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of PTACKABURY(at)aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:44 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing
>
>
>
> Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question
> centers on those
> components that are wired in "permanently"--that is
> replacement is planned
> only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors
> all come with
> wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch
> wires--and those
> devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a
> neat little
> connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail
> so why not make
> an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be
> soldered twisted
> wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or
> do I really need
> to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as
> lightness rather than
> superbly flexible--maybe? paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
>
>Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those
>components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned
>only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come with
>wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and those
>devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little
>connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail
Really? Perhaps I should see if they'd be interested in a
trim system contract for the Beechjet. We see replacements
of perhaps 30 actuators a year in a fleet of 700 aircraft.
If they build actuators that never fail, Raytheon is missing
out on a really good deal . . .
> . . . . . so why not make
>an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted
>wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really need
>to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather than
>superbly flexible--maybe? paul
The devices you've mentioned are called "LRU" (line replaceable
units) in the parlance of certified aircraft. Purely as a matter
of deference to the mechanic who will have to work with the
airplane in the future, LRU's are installed using
some form of connector. Devices with few, heavier gage wires
can use a knife splice, very nearly as reliable as a butt
splice and a whole lot easier to work with from a maintenance
perspective. Smaller, more numerous wires for a device
a brought through some kind of connector such as I have
illustrated for the MAC trim actuator. No LRU is wired
in "permanently" . . . Were I to suggest such a device
require strip, twist and solder to remove/replace, my
professionalism would be unanimously questioned by
by contemporaries . . .
On an OBAM airplane, the only mechanic you have to satisfy
is yourself. Choice of assembly methods for wires beyond
concerns for mechanical integrity are completely optional.
You don't "need" to do anything you don't want to.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen |
Larry,
IMHO too close. These are both 1/4wavelength antennas and are
both in the VHF COMM band. Theory says they should be separated by 1/2wave
at least = 300/130m = 44 inches or so. This can be relieved somewhat by
substituting and antenna in another band, such as GPS or transponder. If
another type of antenna is used, this restriction might be modified,
depending on type. There's lots of room in most 2seaters to put antennas
where least interference may be encountered.
Good luck,
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Antenna prximity Larry Bowen et al |
Oh, oh.......
I misspoke by thinking the transponder was ELT. Please ignore
all foregoing................ Getting senile..........
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Proximity limits Larry Bowen |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Ferg,
The plan is comm on one side of the belly and xpdr on the other. Sounds
like you read something else. There is also a discussion going on about
ELT antennas, but that is a different thread....right?
Thanks,
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003: The Year of Flight!
Fergus Kyle said:
>
> Larry,
> IMHO too close. These are both 1/4wavelength antennas and
> are
> both in the VHF COMM band. Theory says they should be separated by
> 1/2wave at least = 300/130m = 44 inches or so. This can be relieved
> somewhat by substituting and antenna in another band, such as GPS or
> transponder. If another type of antenna is used, this restriction might
> be modified, depending on type. There's lots of room in most 2seaters to
> put antennas where least interference may be encountered.
> Good luck,
> Ferg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Bob,
Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because
it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around
the associated date.
No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one
in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and
I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this
too, just to be safe.
However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do
it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so it
was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
attributed to.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Just curious, is your website's order taking capability a secure
>transaction? It doesn't look to be so.
No. The costs of secure website software adds only a
modicum of safety to an issue that is hundreds of
times wider than encrypted transfers from your browser
to my server . . . I've determined that the whole
"secure server" thing is bogus and I elected not
to load my customers with essentially
worthless overhead.
>I'd like to order a copy of the book, but I'm not in favor of insecure
>transactions over the internet. I tried calling your phone number to
relay
>credit card information and got the fax.
If I'm in the office, I pick up in 4 rings or less. Otherwise
you get the fax. You could fax your order in.
>Just starting on the planning stages of my electrical system and need
all
>the help I can get......
B&C stocks the book too . . . you can call them during
your order. Call 316.283.8000
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
I agree with Bob that they shouldn't be needed. However, I had a piece
of equipment (read SFS EFIS, basically a PC) that could not tolerate the
low voltage condition during starting, and if it happened at the wrong
point during the SFS bootup, it could chunk memory and files and not
recover. Therefore, I had to do something to protect this "pampered"
piece.
I feel an AV MASTER that just controls a solid state relay (eric jones
powerlink JR) is a good choice when this HAS to be this way. I went one
step further and put my ESS avionics behind this AV MASTER, and added a
diode (superDiode from Eric Jones) and an ESS (AV) alternate feed
directly from the battery. I feel this is the most robust design when
confronted with a piece that actually DOES (most don't as Bob points
out) have to be protected, and doesn't have its own ON/OFF switch.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Casey
Subject: AeroElectric-List:
<<
I've seen this article and several others in the
same vein. As you have observed, they are
remarkable for their lack of data. These writers
are propagandists, no more than living echoes of
ancient dogma.
As a PhD, Mr Rogers is OBLIGATED to expand
on understanding based on data . . . this guy
might just as well be writing ad copy for
breakfast cereal.>>
I dealt with Tom Rogers a number of times when he was doing an
installation
in my Cessna (I'll admit it, we installed an avionics master at the
time).
While he is very knowledgeable, I would have bet a weeks pay he didn't
have
a PhD, at least not in a technical field. His understanding of the
engineering basics was more of an experience-based one than one founded
on
the physics and theoretical. He does make a point that some of the
electronic gizmos don't have power switches, so a "master" is the only
way
to turn them off. In my uninformed state (read ignorant) state, the
reason
for the master was simple - it's easier to remember to turn one thing on
and
off than several. Having said all that, the only reason I can think of
to
turn off the radios at all is to eliminate the few amps of draw during
cranking to save every bit of energy for the starter. I once owned a
no-master airplane with several others; there were always radios that
were
left on and I often tried to transmit through a radio which I hadn't yet
turned on. It would seem to me two masters in parallel would be a
reasonable approach.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeEasley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Unswitched Audio Inputs |
I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with 2 unswitched
audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and a Davtron that
all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS Engineering said,
"Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed and hook two up to
each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". TruTrak said, "Just
hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to cast a vote!!!
Thanks,
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but
cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him?
DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573
Shannon Knoepflein wrote:
>
>I agree with Bob that they shouldn't be needed. However, I had a piece
>of equipment (read SFS EFIS, basically a PC) that could not tolerate the
>low voltage condition during starting, and if it happened at the wrong
>point during the SFS bootup, it could chunk memory and files and not
>recover. Therefore, I had to do something to protect this "pampered"
>piece.
>
>I feel an AV MASTER that just controls a solid state relay (eric jones
>powerlink JR) is a good choice when this HAS to be this way. I went one
>step further and put my ESS avionics behind this AV MASTER, and added a
>diode (superDiode from Eric Jones) and an ESS (AV) alternate feed
>directly from the battery. I feel this is the most robust design when
>confronted with a piece that actually DOES (most don't as Bob points
>out) have to be protected, and doesn't have its own ON/OFF switch.
>
>---
>Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>Casey
>To: Aeroelectric-List
>Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
>
>
><<
> I've seen this article and several others in the
> same vein. As you have observed, they are
> remarkable for their lack of data. These writers
> are propagandists, no more than living echoes of
> ancient dogma.
>
> As a PhD, Mr Rogers is OBLIGATED to expand
> on understanding based on data . . . this guy
> might just as well be writing ad copy for
> breakfast cereal.>>
>
>I dealt with Tom Rogers a number of times when he was doing an
>installation
>in my Cessna (I'll admit it, we installed an avionics master at the
>time).
>While he is very knowledgeable, I would have bet a weeks pay he didn't
>have
>a PhD, at least not in a technical field. His understanding of the
>engineering basics was more of an experience-based one than one founded
>on
>the physics and theoretical. He does make a point that some of the
>electronic gizmos don't have power switches, so a "master" is the only
>way
>to turn them off. In my uninformed state (read ignorant) state, the
>reason
>for the master was simple - it's easier to remember to turn one thing on
>and
>off than several. Having said all that, the only reason I can think of
>to
>turn off the radios at all is to eliminate the few amps of draw during
>cranking to save every bit of energy for the starter. I once owned a
>no-master airplane with several others; there were always radios that
>were
>left on and I often tried to transmit through a radio which I hadn't yet
>turned on. It would seem to me two masters in parallel would be a
>reasonable approach.
>
>Gary Casey
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Unswitched Audio Inputs |
snip
I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with 2 unswitched
audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and a Davtron that
all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS Engineering said,
"Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed and hook two up
to
each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two". TruTrak said, "Just
hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to cast a vote!!!
Thanks,
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
Lancair ES
Mike,
Here's a past exchnge on this topic from the AeroElectric list:
(Basically a poor man's audio panel)
Stan Blanton
>> See some new drawings I just posted at:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v1.pdf
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v2.pdf
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf
>>
>> These four drawings show how to do stereo with the
>> Microair (or any other transceiver).
>Is this amplifier (p. 2.4) expandable in parallel using the same value
>components for other inputs such as engine monitors, fuel monitors, MB
>lights etc. or would all of the component values have to be adjusted?
You can add additional inputs to as many as you need.
The component values assume that all audio sources are
in the same ballpark for output voltage. If you have
a lot of different sources, you might want to put
a screwdriver adjustment gain control in the input circuit
of each source.
>Does each warning tone source need its own set of resitor/capacitors?
Yes . . .
>Could this be used (with some of the sources switched) as a poor man's
audio
>panel driving an intercom other than that included in a Microair?
You can use this basic amplifier configuration with any combination
of radios/music sources/intercom systems.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------
( "Teaching should be such that what is offered )
( is perceived as a valuable gift and not as a )
( hard duty ." Albert Einstein )
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
Try http://www.periheliondesign.com
Dave in Wichita
>
> I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but
> cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him?
>
> DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
>stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because
>it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around
>the associated date.
>No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one
>in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and
>I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this
>too, just to be safe.
A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood
of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that
posted the bogus charge?
>However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
>numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do
>it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so it
>was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
>attributed to.
What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even
months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing
else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out
to dinner and hand it to a waiter?
I can understand how, based on what information you have,
you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . .
but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your
conclusion is poorly founded.
We are looking into adding encryption to the browser
uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably
since the last time I checked.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | emrath <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
What is so special about that Switch RSVA-3 that it costs $98.00?
Marty in Brentwood TN
amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring
In a message dated 2/23/03 11:30:34 AM Central Standard Time,
jschroeder(at)perigee.net writes:
> What are the amp ratings on your alternators and the sizes/ratings
of the 3
> shunts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
>
>
Good Afternoon John,
The primary alternator is a 60 amp Teledyne 24 volt model 646849.
The backup is a B&C model BC410-1, 20 amp, 24 volt.
The shunts are all Electronics International model S-50.
The S-50 is listed by EI as follows:
> S-50: 50 amp, 50mV (100 amp capability) External Shunt. To be used
with a
> VA-1A-50. Size 2" x 1.2" x 1.7" height. 3.5 Oz. Unit.Price: $35.00
>
I also used an EI switch:
> RSVA-3: Remote Switch used to monitor the Left and Right Alternator
and
> Battery Current for Twins. To be used with any external shunt unit.
Body 1"
> x 1" x 1.5" depth. Front Panel 2" x 1.15." 3 Oz. Unit. STC'd,
PMA'd.Price:
> $98.00
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/24/03 6:55:49 PM Central Standard Time,
emrath(at)comcast.net writes:
> What is so special about that Switch RSVA-3 that it costs $98.00?
> Marty in Brentwood TN
>
Good Evening Marty,
I don't know, but I would imagine it is because it is FAA approved!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm saying
is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a
purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a
call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made 5
or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't
use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places prompted
them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only
use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce
basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I
have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I
used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW), and
she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a
problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but
who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a
note to call me for the card in the special instructions section.
Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested
to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to
call.
Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks
before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've
said before, its really not a big deal though.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
>stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because
>it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around
>the associated date.
>No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one
>in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and
>I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this
>too, just to be safe.
A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood
of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that
posted the bogus charge?
>However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
>numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do
>it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so
it
>was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
>attributed to.
What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even
months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing
else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out
to dinner and hand it to a waiter?
I can understand how, based on what information you have,
you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . .
but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your
conclusion is poorly founded.
We are looking into adding encryption to the browser
uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably
since the last time I checked.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Unswitched Audio Inputs |
I have a TruTrak (DF200VS) also. I didn't realize it made noise. When?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of MikeEasley(at)aol.com
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:55 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs
>
>
>
> I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with
> 2 unswitched
> audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and
> a Davtron that
> all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS
> Engineering said,
> "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed
> and hook two up to
> each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two".
> TruTrak said, "Just
> hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to
> cast a vote!!!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Easley
> Colorado Springs
> Lancair ES
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"AeroElectric-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
I'd like to pass on a suggestion one of my friends made about wire splices,
useful on small wires. Attach the pins for a d-sub connector onto each wire
(obviously male on one and female on the wire to be joined.) Then, instead
of inserting the pin into a connector, simply slide a piece of heat shrink
over the pins and the splice is made. If the part needs to be changed out,
just cut off the heat shrink.
Sounded good to this neophyte!
Bill
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing
>
>
> >
> >Bob: After six months of daily lurking with few questions, I am ready to
> >seek the least esoteric advise given on this site to date: To wit--how
do
> >you recommend I splice wires in my Lancair? Now before the rest of you
> >lurkers hurt yourselves giggling, I have already built a successful
airplane,
> >a LongEZ in which I used crimped butt joints--hundreds of 'em with more
added
> >every time I change avionics or think of a better way of doing something.
My
> >wire bundles look like snakes after swallowing a litter of pigs. So I am
> >considering terminal blocks (heavy, complex, bulky and a source of future
> >electrical surprises) and soldered joints (twist, solder, and then heat
> >shrink--if only I had 4 hands this would be the obvious solution and I
> >wouldn't be typing this question). Oh--I read your book, mostly, but
> >nada--you must have assumed a lever of expertise beyond mine. So whats
the
> >secret to neat wire runs connecting devices that come with several wires
> >hanging out like MAC motors, blowers, and other mostly automotive eqpt?
> >Thank you for considering this rather pedestrian problem. paul
>
> Hmmmm . . . do you plan to revise/replace/modify system components
> like blowers, trim actuators, etc. very often? I can sorta see where
> avionics items or other whippy panel mounted gizmos can be in a
> constant if slow state of flux . . . but their wires tend to be
> short segments that are relatively easy to replace in their entirety.
> If I understand the words with which you described your Ez project
> conjures up some rather bizarre images.
>
> I think terminal blocks with lots of screw fasteners are
> rarely the solution to anything. When equipment items
> such as trim actuators, blowers, fuel pumps, do not
> come with service disconnects you can certainly add them
> in the form of a connector. For multiple, low current wires
> (less than 5a) you can do things like this:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
>
> For heavier current, two or three-wire devices, knife
> splices work pretty nice . . . For more wires in the
> greater than 5A category, the AMP CPC Series I connectors
> are reasonable in price and low cost tooling is available.
>
> If you find yourself playing musical radios (or any
> other panel mounted accessory), then you MIGHT benefit
> from a set of cable connectors behind the radio that
> simply provide a convenient place to open the wire
> bundle and fabricate a new, short jumper cable to
> accommodate the new radio . . . However, odds are that
> a new radio will have some feature not supported in the
> old bundle and you'll be doing some major rework
> anyhow.
>
> To reduce bulk in spiced wires, there is absolutely
> nothing wrong with lap soldering 1/2" segments of
> bare wires and covering with heatshrink. This IS
> the essence of Raychem's popular solder sleeves for
> joining conductors and insulating the joint with
> a single, relatively easy to use but expensive
> component. If you're doing just a few splices
> then ordinary butt spices are no big deal. If
> your doing a LOT of splices, then one would be
> wise to consider cleaner ways to avoid splices
> entirely.
>
> The few times I've swapped out a radio in an airplane,
> I pulled in all new wires for the installation.
> Every splice, whether accomplished in a connector
> or any other form adds joints and volume to the bundle
> that degrades (as you have already observed) appearance,
> and reliability. A strong sense of craftsmanship
> will dictate that spontaneous eruptions of wire
> splicing be kept to the most practical minimum.
>
> If I were building an airplane I think I try
> to practice high levels of craftsmanship for
> airframe, systems AND wiring.
>
> Bob . . .
> From: PTACKABURY(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire Splicing
>
>
> Bob: Thanks for your thoughts. My remaining question centers on those
> components that are wired in "permanently"--that is replacement is planned
> only in case of failure. Boost pumps, air blower, MAC motors all come
with
> wires hanging out rather than receptacles (screws) to atch wires--and
those
> devices would be replaced only if they fail. So why use a neat little
> connector ala your referenced web page--MAC motors don't fail so why not
make
> an equally "permanent" splice? And should that splice be soldered twisted
> wires covered with heat shrink, or a crimped butt splice, or do I really
need
> to fab a connector? Craftsmanship might be defined as lightness rather
than
> superbly flexible--maybe? paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Unswitched Audio Inputs |
It should put out a chime when it's disengaged.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Bowen
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs
I have a TruTrak (DF200VS) also. I didn't realize it made noise. When?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of MikeEasley(at)aol.com
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:55 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Unswitched Audio Inputs
>
>
>
> I am wiring my own panel with a UPSAT SL15M audio panel with
> 2 unswitched
> audio inputs. I have an AOA, EDM900, TruTrak Autopilot, and
> a Davtron that
> all need to be connected to an unswitched audio input. PS
> Engineering said,
> "Use a dropping resistor from 100 to 460 ohms on each feed
> and hook two up to
> each input". UPSAT said, "It can't be done, pick two".
> TruTrak said, "Just
> hook all 4 up, it won't hurt a thing". Anyone else care to
> cast a vote!!!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Easley
> Colorado Springs
> Lancair ES
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the
only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure that
I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were widely
separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card also.
Kind of makes a person wonder.
Bill
Glasair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Very recently there was a computer security breach at a third party card
processor (un-named in the article I read) which compromised millions of
credit card numbers.
William
RV-8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Hibbing
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the
only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure that
I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were widely
separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card also.
Kind of makes a person wonder.
Bill
Glasair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
William Bernard wrote:
>
>I'd like to pass on a suggestion one of my friends made about wire splices,
>useful on small wires. Attach the pins for a d-sub connector onto each wire
>(obviously male on one and female on the wire to be joined.) Then, instead
>of inserting the pin into a connector, simply slide a piece of heat shrink
>over the pins and the splice is made. If the part needs to be changed out,
>just cut off the heat shrink.
>
>Sounded good to this neophyte!
>
>Bill
>
The only significant downside is that the heat shrink isn't a reliable
locking device & could allow the connection to be opened by unintended
tension on the wires.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
There you go. See, I could be totally off base. Just seemed like it
made sense. Its possible it happened another way when mine got stolen.
Either way, its no big deal and there are ways to protect yourself. I
know I'm more careful now.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Hibbing
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
I find this very interesting. My AOPA card was also compromised and the
only place that I use it is for self service avgas and then I make sure
that
I have the receipt. I had a couple of charges from places that were
widely
separated. The bank took care of the charges and sent me a new card
also.
Kind of makes a person wonder.
Bill
Glasair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
Gang,
Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in
small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure
locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive
coating on the inside.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
Dick
David Swartzendruber wrote:
>
>Try http://www.periheliondesign.com
>
>
>Dave in Wichita
>
>
>
>>I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but
>>cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him?
>>
>>DIck Tasker, RV9A - 90573
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so
back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
company. Could be yours was one of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
> Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm saying
> is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a
> purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a
> call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made 5
> or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't
> use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places prompted
> them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only
> use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce
> basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I
> have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
> Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW), and
> she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a
> problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but
> who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a
> note to call me for the card in the special instructions section.
>
> Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested
> to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to
> call.
>
> Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks
> before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've
> said before, its really not a big deal though.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
> >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site because
> >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period around
> >the associated date.
>
>
> >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new one
> >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me and
> >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do this
> >too, just to be safe.
>
> A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood
> of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that
> posted the bogus charge?
>
> >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
> >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they do
> >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so
> it
> >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
> >attributed to.
>
> What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even
> months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing
> else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out
> to dinner and hand it to a waiter?
>
> I can understand how, based on what information you have,
> you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . .
> but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your
> conclusion is poorly founded.
>
> We are looking into adding encryption to the browser
> uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably
> since the last time I checked.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
Old , John
I may be wrong but I will check it. I have a S-50, and the shunt is
stamped 100mv'100amp.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
DHPHKH(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Gang,
> Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in
> small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure
> locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive
> coating on the inside.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
>
>Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so
>back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
>company. Could be yours was one of them.
Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
book keeping machine is never used to download applications
that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
mapped to other computers.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
> >
> > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable cause"
with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
because I happen to own a shovel.
If my system had been breached, there should have been
hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
on which thousands of card numbers are stored
has no relationship to or benefit from having an
encrypted transaction between your browser and the
computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
looking at closing that very tiny porthole
soon.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Bob,
As I understand it the problem was that the company that services
transactions was hacked, not your good self so even if you used one of those
little machines that connects by telephone line to them, at some point the
cc number ends up on the cc servicing company network, it has to so they can
charge the card. No reflection on your own security but on the company that
processes cc transactions for the banks.
Cheers,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
> >
> >Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
> >back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
> >company. Could be yours was one of them.
>
> Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
> One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
> for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
> that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
> book keeping machine is never used to download applications
> that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
> trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
> sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
> mapped to other computers.
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
>
> It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable
cause"
> with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
> over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
> was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
> because I happen to own a shovel.
>
> If my system had been breached, there should have been
> hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
> with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
> on which thousands of card numbers are stored
> has no relationship to or benefit from having an
> encrypted transaction between your browser and the
> computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
> looking at closing that very tiny porthole
> soon.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
In a message dated 2/25/2003 1:36:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
>
> I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
Mark,
I agree. The key is a "properly crimped" butt splice. Butt splices in my
experience have gotten a bad reputation due to the fact that extra care is
needed to install one correctly. With a crimp-on terminal you can see the
wire ends extend through the crimp zone. A but splice takes more care to
make the crimp in the correct area with the wire properly inserted. Using
the wrong size butt splice is a common mistake but that applies to any
crimped terminal. A butt splice in a tied bundle is a source for wire
chaffing. I would suppose the biggest objection is in the fact that a butt
splice has little or no additional mechanical support other than at the crimp
itself.
Mark, do possums really do any work?
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: : amp/volt gauge/ shunts and wiring |
In a message dated 2/24/03 11:34:31 PM Central Standard Time, N823ms(at)aol.com
writes:
> Old , John
>
> I may be wrong but I will check it. I have a S-50, and the shunt is
> stamped 100mv'100amp.
>
> Ed
>
Good Morning John,
The data that comes with the shunt calls it a 50 amp unit that is good for up
to 100 amps.
I have no idea if that is common in the industry or not.
I have tried turning on everything that is mounted in my airplane all at the
same time and have never been able to get the load above 35 amps or so. I
am, therefore, unable to tell you whether the system will show a current
above 50 adequately, but I'll bet a milkshake it will!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
In a message dated 2/25/03 12:36:48 AM Central Standard Time,
ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
> I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
Good Morning Mark,
Interesting point.
The thing that interests me about using the crimp on pins is the ease of
disassembly by just cutting off the shrink wrap. That could be handy!
I think I would only use that technique where there is a possibility that
disassembly may be desired sometime in the future. Other than that, a
soldered butt splice is fine with me.
I have never used the technique, but would be willing to give it a try!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Actually, this happened back in September2002, last of the month, so I
doubt it.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Babb
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
company. Could be yours was one of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
> Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal. All I'm
saying
> is I hadn't used the card for several weeks, then I used it on a
> purchase from your non-secure site, and 3-4 days later I was getting a
> call from my CC company asking me about purchases. The perps had made
5
> or 6 purchases from strange places that didn't fit my pattern (I don't
> use the card much, so a lot of use quickly, from strange places
prompted
> them). So, my only conclusion was it happened from your site. I only
> use this card for airplane parts purchases (B&C and Aircraft Spruce
> basically is it), so I don't know how else it could have happened. I
> have another card I use for all my other personal stuff. The card I
> used was my AOPA card, and I only use it for airplane stuff.
>
> Anyway, I told the lady at B&C about it (very nice and helpful BTW),
and
> she said I was the first (and only as far as she knew) to have a
> problem. I'm sure I was the first, and probably will be the last, but
> who knows. I've ordered 2-3 times from B&C since and I just leave a
> note to call me for the card in the special instructions section.
>
> Again, no big deal. I just would suggest you fix it (like I suggested
> to her) or that you tell people to do the same as I do with a note to
> call.
>
> Now, it is certainly possible it was stolen another way several weeks
> before, but highly unlikely considering the circumstances. Like I've
> said before, its really not a big deal though.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Not to discourage you or your site, but, my credit card number was
> >stolen while ordering from your site. I know it was your site
because
> >it is the only thing I had ordered within a several week period
around
> >the associated date.
>
>
> >No big deal, my CC company caught it, canceled it, and had me a new
one
> >in a couple days. Now I just leave instructions for B&C to call me
and
> >I'll give them the number. Words great. I would suggest other do
this
> >too, just to be safe.
>
> A single event? A stolen number generally gets a flood
> of activity. Do you recall the name of the company that
> posted the bogus charge?
>
> >However, just so you know, somebody is watching the site and grabbing
> >numbers somehow. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how they
do
> >it, but I also know I didn't order anything else around that time, so
> it
> >was pretty much the only data point that it being stolen could be
> >attributed to.
>
> What makes you think the # wasn't acquired weeks or even
> months before/after your order? The card is used for nothing
> else other than ordering from AEC/B&C? You didn't go out
> to dinner and hand it to a waiter?
>
> I can understand how, based on what information you have,
> you might arrive at the conclusion you've cited . . .
> but without forensic data or confessions by perps, your
> conclusion is poorly founded.
>
> We are looking into adding encryption to the browser
> uplink . . . the prices have come down considerably
> since the last time I checked.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? WAY off topic |
Do no archive
Well, whatever the case is, I apologize for saying anything. Last thing
I wanted to do was start another tissy on here. I was just relaying my
experience. I take it all back, and will just leave the listers with
this bit of advise: When you order something online with a credit card,
take all the precautions possible.
Now, forgive my ignorance, because, as usual, you obviously know more
about this as I do. Please explain to me, in your opinion, experience,
whatever, how you think my number was stolen. This really has me
concerned now, as I don't know how it happened. I looked up my
statement, and the last transaction before the B&C one was ~6 weeks
earlier to Aircraft Spruce (August). The transaction I made with you
was in late September. I received a call on October 1 reporting the
false charges (I remember the exact date because I was doing flight
training for my instrument rating I got on 10-2). Now, if there is no
possibility that this occurred when I ordered from you as you have
stated, what else could have happened to allow it to occur? I want to
know so I can be sure to protect myself in the future. All this online
ordering and throwing credit card numbers around sure is fast and
convenient, but now I'm really worried how to protect myself. I thought
I knew the culprit and how to protect myself from it, but if you say it
couldn't have been when I ordered from you, that leaves me with no idea
what happened, which really bothers me......
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or
so
>back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
>company. Could be yours was one of them.
Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
book keeping machine is never used to download applications
that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
mapped to other computers.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>
>
> >
> > Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable
cause"
with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
because I happen to own a shovel.
If my system had been breached, there should have been
hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
on which thousands of card numbers are stored
has no relationship to or benefit from having an
encrypted transaction between your browser and the
computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
looking at closing that very tiny porthole
soon.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch> |
| Subject: | Tyco EV200 power relay |
Bob,
In my Rotax 912S electric power system, I'd like to replace the battery relay by
a Tyco EV200 power relay shown in http://www.ciitech.com/doc_generator.asp?doc_id=1280
. Reason: it has a hold power consumption of only 1.7 W at 12 VDC.
Do you see any reason for not using it in an OBAM Europa?
Thank you for your always helpful advices!
Alfred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeEasley(at)aol.com |
All TruTrak autopilots (according to the install manual) have audio alerter
signals from pin 13. It alerts loss of GPSS, glideslope capture, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? WAY off topic |
Shannon,
First the obvious question, and please, no offense meant in asking; You
do have a firewall in place on your own computer? FWIW, I get pinged about
twice a day.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>
>Dick
I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
links.
Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
hit U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
feature.
I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
language capable of some pretty whizzy things
(sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
simple by default . . . they contain no
features that fall outside the set of things I
needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
The end results can suffer from effects cited
by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
"Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
program that puts great capabilities in the hands
of neophytes. But when things don't work as
desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
potential for disappointment when things are
not working as expected.
Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
either by vertical integration of his personal
skills or horizontal integration of the skills
of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
Until you've been there, it's difficult to
appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
be.
Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
we face as system designers. And this is not
limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
"the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
the-headlights expression as a new problem
was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
that someone present will offer insight.
It's instructive to observe the frustration
of higher level managers that try to balance
desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
with the need to understand and have some
control over our destiny (vertical integration).
We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
giggles from the listener who just drove up
to your workshop in an automobile with
push-button everything, a webcam fitted
cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
a level of understanding that allows them to
use less than 10% of the capabilities of
the universal remote for their
TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
they are in control . . . until one of
those devices craps or produces unexpected
and unwanted results. (I cover some
buttons on my remotes with a blob of
epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
by accident - better to disable features
NOT needed to keep them from getting
in the way of what IS needed).
When I watch a well heeled professional
fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
say a little prayer that his experiences
match his expectations. As you consider
your future with an OBAM product, I'll
suggest that nothing will serve you better
than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
Got a call last evening to go out to flight
test and help with a little project on
our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
in the sky, all the goodies one might
imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
but it still gives me the shivers.
In the mean time, the least we can do
for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
his offerings when it makes sense for our
projects.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
Whoa... Bob.
Read it again. He wasn't talking about your site but "a cc servicing
company".
In other words a company which vendors connect to to do the transaction.
Finn
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Wasn't there a news item recently (in the past few days maybe a week or so
>>back) about several million cc numbers being stolen from a cc servicing
>>company. Could be yours was one of them.
>>
>>
>
> Nope. Card numbers are stored here behind two firewalls.
> One which is hardware that filters off all protocols
> for data transfer coming in from the 'net. Nobody taps
> that machine from outside . . . not even me. The
> book keeping machine is never used to download applications
> that might contain trojans and the software firewall would
> trap and flag those if they existed. Drives with
> sensitive data are not shared on the local network nor
> mapped to other computers.
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Secure site?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bob, no need to get in a hissy, it's really no big deal.
>>>
>>>
>
> It's something of a "deal" when my system is tagged as "probable cause"
> with nothing other than commonality of numerous transactions
> over a range of dates. Its like suggesting that I
> was responsible for vandalizing my neighbor's garden
> because I happen to own a shovel.
>
> If my system had been breached, there should have been
> hundreds of incidents with strong correlation to transactions
> with B&C and/or AEC. Vulnerability of the computers
> on which thousands of card numbers are stored
> has no relationship to or benefit from having an
> encrypted transaction between your browser and the
> computer that hosts the website . . . and we're
> looking at closing that very tiny porthole
> soon.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
>
>Gang,
> Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice in
>small wires. I wouldn't be concerned about heat shrink being an insecure
>locking device if you're using the good stuff with the hot melt adhesive
>coating on the inside.
>
>Dan
I've used d-sub pins exactly as you have described. They
are an excellent, low volume alternative to butt-splices
with the advantages of a knife splice. Obviously, the
BIG consideration is controlling installation of the
bundle to tightly control and limit TENSION on the
wires. But what you propose is quite rational.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
>
>Bob,
>
>As I understand it the problem was that the company that services
>transactions was hacked, not your good self so even if you used one of those
>little machines that connects by telephone line to them, at some point the
>cc number ends up on the cc servicing company network, it has to so they can
>charge the card. No reflection on your own security but on the company that
>processes cc transactions for the banks.
Don't know details of how that works. We do manually enter
CC data on a telephone line connected terminal. Obviously,
there are many opportunities for compromise when you
have a byte-thrasher connected to the outside world
via phone lines and Internet connections. It's really
easy to become enamored of doing lots of things by
remote control and communication . . . but every porthole
that is opened to do good things is a potential
entry point for persons of dishonorable intent. The
best thing is to minimize portholes which is what
we try to do here.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
>
>In a message dated 2/25/2003 1:36:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
>
> >
> > I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> > advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> > unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> > system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
> >
> > From The PossumWorks in TN
> > Mark
> >
>
>Mark,
>
>I agree. The key is a "properly crimped" butt splice. Butt splices in my
>experience have gotten a bad reputation due to the fact that extra care is
>needed to install one correctly. With a crimp-on terminal you can see the
>wire ends extend through the crimp zone. A butt splice takes more care to
>make the crimp in the correct area with the wire properly inserted.
AMP butt splices use a transparent jacket through which one may
observe and inspect captured wires for sufficient insertion. This
is the style of butt splice sold through the B&C catalog.
> Using
>the wrong size butt splice is a common mistake but that applies to any
>crimped terminal. A butt splice in a tied bundle is a source for wire
>chaffing. I would suppose the biggest objection is in the fact that a butt
>splice has little or no additional mechanical support other than at the crimp
>itself.
. . . Hmmmm . . . it's plastic rubbing against plastic. Similar
materials that are not mechanically antagonistic to each other.
If I were to survey "the big guys" as to desirability or
undesirability of butt splices, I think there would be consensus
on keeping such devices at a minimum (a product or process not
utilized cannot be a future failure point) and concerns about
adding bulk to a bundle. We have process rules at RAC that
limit the number of splices that can exist in any wire before
it is pulled out and replaced in its entirety.
The classic PIDG butt splice is seldom used for small wires
(22 and 20AWG) . . . there's a new product I've seen that
is very small diameter, un-insulated splice covered with
heat-shrinked jacket . . . MUCH smaller volume than the
PIDG product.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
>
>In a message dated 2/25/03 12:36:48 AM Central Standard Time,
>ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
>
> > I'd like to think a butt splice would be perfectly suitable- what is the
> > advantage gained by the pins? A properly applied "butt" is virtually
> > unconpromisable- you crimp the majority of other terminations in your
> > system, so why is a butt splice unacceptable?
>
>Good Morning Mark,
>
>Interesting point.
>
>The thing that interests me about using the crimp on pins is the ease of
>disassembly by just cutting off the shrink wrap. That could be handy!
THERE'S the real trick. Cutting the shrink off a small diameter
wire takes some care while wielding sharp tools. Butt splices
are simply cut out and the bundle gets a little shorter when
they are replaced. Getting the shrink off without damage to wire
is a skill to be mastered.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Secure site? |
This is a strange situation. I've used cards on the internet for years and
never had a problem but the card that no one but me ever gets to see is
ripped off. There must be a number of ways that the thieves are getting the
info but the thing I wanted to point out here is if the dollar amount of the
theft gets into the $4,000 to 5,000 or better range, let the Secret Service
know about it. They are the agency that handles this type of crime.
Bill
Glasair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeEasley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
I have used some small uninsulated butt connectors on my instrument panel
wiring. They are for 22-18 awg and only about 9/16" long and about 1/8" in
diameter. I can slip two 22 awg conductors in one end, and one out the other
end for combining two wires into a d-sub pin. A little white shrink wrap on
the outside and it's compact, solid, and pretty! The package is from
GC/Waldom, part # KS-1019. I picked them up at the local electronic supply
store.
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Differential Radio Noise |
Hi Folks,
Got a brief flash of warmth the other day so was able to go out to
the hangar and start fiddling with my radio noise problem.
Dang....it's still there. I did notice that there is quite a
noticeable difference between the noises coming out of the co-pilot
headphone jack as opposed to those coming out of the pilot jack. Used
the same headset and plugged into each. Co-pilot's side was much
quieter, both engine off and engine on. Has anyone else noticed such a
thing? Any ideas on how that might be happening?
Like most airplane builders, I enjoy problem-solving, but this is
getting ridiculous :)
Bill Yamokoski
Putting a muffler on the high rpm Subaru
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
command set to ensure compatibility.
All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
readable rather than complex but not readable.
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>>
>>Dick
>>
>>
>
> I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
> pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
> he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
> links.
>
> Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
> In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
> hit U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
> feature.
>
> I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
> commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
> It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
> is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
>
> I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
> of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
> Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
> set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
> html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
> language capable of some pretty whizzy things
> (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
> I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
> is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
> that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
> most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
> simple by default . . . they contain no
> features that fall outside the set of things I
> needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
> the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
>
> The end results can suffer from effects cited
> by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
> "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
> Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
> program that puts great capabilities in the hands
> of neophytes. But when things don't work as
> desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
> of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
> C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
> B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
> potential for disappointment when things are
> not working as expected.
>
> Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
> either by vertical integration of his personal
> skills or horizontal integration of the skills
> of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
> Until you've been there, it's difficult to
> appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
> be.
>
> Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
> we face as system designers. And this is not
> limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
> in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
> "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
> the-headlights expression as a new problem
> was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
> that someone present will offer insight.
>
> It's instructive to observe the frustration
> of higher level managers that try to balance
> desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
> with the need to understand and have some
> control over our destiny (vertical integration).
> We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
> now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
>
> Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
> giggles from the listener who just drove up
> to your workshop in an automobile with
> push-button everything, a webcam fitted
> cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
> a level of understanding that allows them to
> use less than 10% of the capabilities of
> the universal remote for their
> TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
> they are in control . . . until one of
> those devices craps or produces unexpected
> and unwanted results. (I cover some
> buttons on my remotes with a blob of
> epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
> by accident - better to disable features
> NOT needed to keep them from getting
> in the way of what IS needed).
>
> When I watch a well heeled professional
> fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
> say a little prayer that his experiences
> match his expectations. As you consider
> your future with an OBAM product, I'll
> suggest that nothing will serve you better
> than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
>
> Got a call last evening to go out to flight
> test and help with a little project on
> our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
> cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
> in the sky, all the goodies one might
> imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
> into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
> to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
> but it still gives me the shivers.
>
> In the mean time, the least we can do
> for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
> his offerings when it makes sense for our
> projects.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
In a message dated 2/24/03 1:58:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
retasker(at)optonline.net writes:
<< I have seen Eric Jones and his products mentioned several times, but
cannot find him on the web. Do you have a URL for him? >>
Sure: www.PerihelionDesign.com. Eric's got some good stuff on there. I
have installed his wig wag module that is the size and weight of one of those
purse sized aspirin containers ladies used to carry but will handle 250 watt
per side according to Eric (I don't plan to run mine with more than 100 watt
lights and more likely 55 watt lights). He's got lots of other electronic
goodies and is a nice guy to deal with. His direct E-mail is
emjones(at)charter.net.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Steer" <bsteer(at)gwi.net> |
I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
workable, for free.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones
>
> Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
> done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
>
> Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
> indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
> information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
> Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
> web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
> products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
> This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
> while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
> generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
> command set to ensure compatibility.
>
> All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
> the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
>
> I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
> what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
> severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
> realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
> web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
> site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
> be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
> readable rather than complex but not readable.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
> >>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
> >>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
> > pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
> > he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
> > links.
> >
> > Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
> > In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
> > hit U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
> > feature.
> >
> > I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
> > commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
> > It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
> > is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
> >
> > I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
> > of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
> > Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
> > set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
> > html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
> > language capable of some pretty whizzy things
> > (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
> > I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
> > is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
> > that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
> > most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
> > simple by default . . . they contain no
> > features that fall outside the set of things I
> > needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
> > the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
> >
> > The end results can suffer from effects cited
> > by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
> > "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
> > Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
> > program that puts great capabilities in the hands
> > of neophytes. But when things don't work as
> > desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
> > of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
> > C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
> > B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
> > potential for disappointment when things are
> > not working as expected.
> >
> > Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
> > either by vertical integration of his personal
> > skills or horizontal integration of the skills
> > of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
> > Until you've been there, it's difficult to
> > appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
> > be.
> >
> > Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
> > we face as system designers. And this is not
> > limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
> > in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
> > "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
> > the-headlights expression as a new problem
> > was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
> > that someone present will offer insight.
> >
> > It's instructive to observe the frustration
> > of higher level managers that try to balance
> > desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
> > with the need to understand and have some
> > control over our destiny (vertical integration).
> > We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
> > now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
> >
> > Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
> > giggles from the listener who just drove up
> > to your workshop in an automobile with
> > push-button everything, a webcam fitted
> > cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
> > a level of understanding that allows them to
> > use less than 10% of the capabilities of
> > the universal remote for their
> > TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
> > they are in control . . . until one of
> > those devices craps or produces unexpected
> > and unwanted results. (I cover some
> > buttons on my remotes with a blob of
> > epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
> > by accident - better to disable features
> > NOT needed to keep them from getting
> > in the way of what IS needed).
> >
> > When I watch a well heeled professional
> > fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
> > say a little prayer that his experiences
> > match his expectations. As you consider
> > your future with an OBAM product, I'll
> > suggest that nothing will serve you better
> > than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
> >
> > Got a call last evening to go out to flight
> > test and help with a little project on
> > our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
> > cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
> > in the sky, all the goodies one might
> > imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
> > into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
> > to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
> > but it still gives me the shivers.
> >
> > In the mean time, the least we can do
> > for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
> > his offerings when it makes sense for our
> > projects.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall pass-through protection hardware |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, I saw this on Doug Reeves' website this morning and thought I'd post it here
for those of you who aren't RV builders and probably didn't see it. Since
the topic of how to protect wire bundles through the firewall while maintaining
the integrity of the firewall has been discussed here before I thought it was
relevant. You can see the text and pictures at:
http://members6.clubphoto.com/doug412210/1161024/guest.phtml
Here's the text for the archives:
Firewall Penetrations
Firewall Penetrations-by Vern Darley (vern(at)mindspring.com)
Years ago,I was an Air Force Force pilot and had a jet engine throw a compressor
blade thru the
cockpit and hit the side of the ejection seat. The cockpit immediately filled with
intense heat
and I was solid IFR with dense white smoke inside the cockpit. In another type
of AF plane,I
once experienced an electrical fire in the cockpit. In college,I worked parting
out crashed
light aircraft at an FBO. Lately,I've wandered around aircraft junkyards scrounging
parts. All
of these experiences have made me accutely aware of how much I want to keep fire
out of my RV
cockpit.
In the RV world,there are four main penetrations through our firewalls: engine
controls,fuel
lines, wiring, and cabin heat/air. Due to their small size and the availability
of
'eyeballs',etc. engine controls are not a big threat to us. The fuel line penetration
is
normally handled by a through-the-firewall fitting. So, there remain two main threats
to our
health and safety: the wiring bundles and the cabin heat/air.
Typically, most builders seem to opt for the rubber grommet and a dab of RTV for
the wires,and
depend on the aluminum cabin heat devices that Vans and others market to cover
the
two-inch-or-so firewall penetration for air. In my opinion, the aluminum devices
are inadequate
protection to keep fire on the engine side of my RV. In searching for solutions,
I found a new
company that has helped me solve these problems. I asked them for data,and Paul
Bowmar, director
of R&D provided me with a video of a recent test he conducted on aluminum vs.stainless
firewall
penetration devices. His company,EPM.AV Corporation, has developed a beautiful
stainless version
of the airbox most RVs need and has also manufactured various size wiring pass
throughs.He has
also tested various compounds that seal the wire bundles.
In the tests, a standard aluminum RV style vent was subjected to a flame source
at the 1600-1800
degree range that one would get in a fuel fire in a flying RV. The aluminum vent
melted like wax
within ten seconds! Even with a stainless flapper installed, this would not have
protected us
since the flapper would simply fall away when the supporting aluminum structure
melted. Tests on
an all stainless version of the same airbox endured extended direct flames with
no damage for
the duration of the test. Tests with wire penetrations yielded similar results
and pointed out
the need to use top grade wire and insulation for your through-the-firewall wiring.
I've since
bought actual products and am happy to report first class workmanship and to recommend
their new
products to my fellow RV'ers.
Fly safe!
Vern Darley
6A slowbuild
Peachtree City, Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
I'm one of the masses eagerly awaiting the Dynon EFIS D-10 that is supposed to
be available shortly. Before I send them my money, however, I think it would
be nice to hear from someone who is not a Dynon employee who has flown with the
unit...always nice to get a review from somebody with a different perspective
and hopefully as unbiased as possible...at least without a conflict of interest!
A while back there was talk of Dynon sending out beta test units to a few people.
Is anybody out there a participant, or know of anyone who is? I expect Dynon
may have made a beta tester sign some sort of nondisclosure agreement during
the test phase to allow them to sort out any problems without negative press,
but at some point we should be able to hear from those folks...
I also asked Dynon about this and have not received a response yet...will post
it if I get any information. I'd encourage others interested in seeing a 3rd
party review of the unit to contact Dynon expressing this desire...write them
at info(at)dynondevelopment.com
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward and wiring...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
connectors are.
I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or could
some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
What I would like to do is put one connector in the rear fuse for strobe /
MAC servo/ Tail light disconect.
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors
>
>Bob and Gang,
> Discussion of connectors raises an interesting thought; don't think
> I've
>ever seen a good article on multi-wire plug connectors, and the selection
of
>a particular type for a particular application. Electronics guys know the
>details because they've worked with them for years. The rest of us pick up
a
>Digi-Key catalog or similar, find a jaw-dropping selection, and groan.
> Need examples? When does one use a Molex connector vs a D-sub?
D-subs are the first connector I consider for any new application.
Check out this picture:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/power_dist.jpg
This is a "tall" picture . . . so scroll down to
see the bottom half.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
His email address is: emjones(at)charter.net
I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
I could see the parts he sells!
Dick Tasker
Bill Steer wrote:
>
>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>workable, for free.
>
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eric Jones
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
>>done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
>>
>>Don't get me started on Microsoft and their products... Someone
>>indicated in a post somewhere that Eric said (how's that for indirect
>>information :-) ) he was using the built-in capabilities of Word and
>>Excel to create the web pages. That is a very bad way to create usable
>>web pages and will result in incompatibilities with even older Microsoft
>>products given their propensity to create file new formats all the time.
>> This is one of the reasons that you seem to be able to read it in IE6
>>while I cannot do so in IE5.5. This is absurd given the fact that code
>>generated for use on the web is supposed to use the standard HTML
>>command set to ensure compatibility.
>>
>>All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
>>the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
>>
>>I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
>>what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
>>severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
>>realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
>>web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
>>site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
>>be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
>>readable rather than complex but not readable.
>>
>>Dick Tasker
>>
>>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Does this URL actually do anything for you? I have both IE5.5 and
>>>>Netscape 7 and the web site does nothing except display a rather
>>>>rudimentary home page - no links do anything...
>>>>
>>>>Dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I have WinXP/Netscape7.0 and IE6.0 . . . Netscape won't
>>> pick the links out of his front page. IE6.0 will . . . when
>>> he first put the site up, neither browser would pick the
>>> links.
>>>
>>> Just for grins, try viewing the front page's source code.
>>> In Netscape, you click on "View" and then "Page Source", or
>>> hit U from the keyboard. I think IE has a similar
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> I was astounded at the amount of code and specialized
>>> commands imbedded in the formation of his front page.
>>> It comes to about 69 Kbytes of stuff. My most complex webpage
>>> is the B&C Catalog page and it's only 37 Kbytes.
>>>
>>> I believe Eric's webcrafting was done on some kind
>>> of turn-key Microsoft product, probably Front Page.
>>> Those kinds of applications weren't around when I
>>> set up aeroelectric.com. I was forced to learn
>>> html coding to format a page . . . it's simple
>>> language capable of some pretty whizzy things
>>> (sorta like a modern, compiled BASIC). The problem
>>> I've found with turn-key webcrafting applications
>>> is that they put a LOT of code into your end product
>>> that is beyond understanding given the time and effort
>>> most folks have to invest in it. My pages are stone
>>> simple by default . . . they contain no
>>> features that fall outside the set of things I
>>> needed (or was willing) to learn . . . and by
>>> the same token, simpler to troubleshoot.
>>>
>>> The end results can suffer from effects cited
>>> by William of Occam who centuries ago observed,
>>> "Things should not be unnecessarily multiplied."
>>> Like Windows in general, Front Page is a very powerful
>>> program that puts great capabilities in the hands
>>> of neophytes. But when things don't work as
>>> desired, one finds himself sitting at the controls
>>> of a 747 with perhaps 100 hours experience in a
>>> C-172. Yeah, we can navigate from point A to point
>>> B in about ANYTHING that flies . . . but there's
>>> potential for disappointment when things are
>>> not working as expected.
>>>
>>> Eric has a huge task ahead that will be handled
>>> either by vertical integration of his personal
>>> skills or horizontal integration of the skills
>>> of other folk he chooses to tap for assistance.
>>> Until you've been there, it's difficult to
>>> appreciate what kind of a struggle this can
>>> be.
>>>
>>> Eric's labors are illustrative of the tasks
>>> we face as system designers. And this is not
>>> limited to the OBAM community. I've sat
>>> in plenty of meetings rubbing elbows with
>>> "the big guys" where many had that deer-in-
>>> the-headlights expression as a new problem
>>> was tossed out to the attendees with hopes
>>> that someone present will offer insight.
>>>
>>> It's instructive to observe the frustration
>>> of higher level managers that try to balance
>>> desires to off-load (horizontal integration)
>>> with the need to understand and have some
>>> control over our destiny (vertical integration).
>>> We're in the horizontal creep mode at RAC right
>>> now . . . I'm glad I don't have their jobs!
>>>
>>> Explanation of the KISS principal often draws
>>> giggles from the listener who just drove up
>>> to your workshop in an automobile with
>>> push-button everything, a webcam fitted
>>> cellphone, a PDA that runs their lives and
>>> a level of understanding that allows them to
>>> use less than 10% of the capabilities of
>>> the universal remote for their
>>> TV/VCR/DVD/Cable boxes. But they BELIEVE
>>> they are in control . . . until one of
>>> those devices craps or produces unexpected
>>> and unwanted results. (I cover some
>>> buttons on my remotes with a blob of
>>> epoxy lest they get punched in the dark
>>> by accident - better to disable features
>>> NOT needed to keep them from getting
>>> in the way of what IS needed).
>>>
>>> When I watch a well heeled professional
>>> fly off in his new A-36 Bonanza, I gotta
>>> say a little prayer that his experiences
>>> match his expectations. As you consider
>>> your future with an OBAM product, I'll
>>> suggest that nothing will serve you better
>>> than understanding how EVERYTHING works.
>>>
>>> Got a call last evening to go out to flight
>>> test and help with a little project on
>>> our AGATE derivative Bonanza . . . glass
>>> cockpit, fly by wire, auto-land, electronic highways
>>> in the sky, all the goodies one might
>>> imagine. Talk about dropping C-172 pilots
>>> into a B-747 . . . this airplane proposes
>>> to do exactly that! Fun stuff to work on
>>> but it still gives me the shivers.
>>>
>>> In the mean time, the least we can do
>>> for Eric is encourage him on and patronize
>>> his offerings when it makes sense for our
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
AM
Subject: Columbia
This is the absolute best information package that I have seen yet, be
sure to let all of
the animations load and watch all of them,,,,,,,This is unbelievable ! !
Subject: Columbia
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gshuttle_disaster/flash.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Chalmers <David(at)ctsinternational.com> |
I just talked to them about this. Only the DFC series has audio on pin 13.
Digitrak and DigiFlight do not have audio out.
-----Original Message-----
From: MikeEasley(at)aol.com [mailto:MikeEasley(at)aol.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TruTrak Sounds
All TruTrak autopilots (according to the install manual) have audio alerter
signals from pin 13. It alerts loss of GPSS, glideslope capture, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
Hello Richard,
Another option is to download Mozilla
(http://www.mozilla.org) and install it, for free. This is
the open source version of Netscape. It has a built-in web
development capability called "Composer." It's not flashy,
but it works and it will display on all browsers.
Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 10:42:03 AM, you wrote:
RT> His email address is: emjones(at)charter.net
RT> I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
RT> I could see the parts he sells!
RT> Dick Tasker
RT> Bill Steer wrote:
>>
>>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>>workable, for free.
>>
>>Bill
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
I am aware of this already, but I am not the one with a web site that
needs work...
Eric Jones is.
Freddie Freeloader wrote:
>
>Hello Richard,
>
>Another option is to download Mozilla
>(http://www.mozilla.org) and install it, for free. This is
>the open source version of Netscape. It has a built-in web
>development capability called "Composer." It's not flashy,
>but it works and it will display on all browsers.
>
>Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 10:42:03 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>RT> His email address is: emjones(at)charter.net
>
>RT> I suspect that he would be interested. I certainly would be since then
>RT> I could see the parts he sells!
>
>RT> Dick Tasker
>
>
>RT> Bill Steer wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>I'm in the web software business and would be happy to make those pages
>>>workable, for free.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shay King" <shaking(at)eircom.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912 charge light |
Dear list,
I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I need.
The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be used as the
charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind anywhere.
I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal Town and local electronics
stores to no avail.
I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no indication
of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2 watt bulb which
is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the 3 watt
rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
Any help appreciated.
Regards,
Shay King.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, this just in from Gillian at Dynon....answered my question. Guess we'll
have to wait for some of you jocks who are already flying to get a unit and tell
us how you like it...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring and FWF...
------------------------------------------------------
Mark,
All testing to this point has been done with people closely connected with
the company. We hope to see "flying reports" from people not connected with
the company shortly after the first units ship.
By-the-way, our warranty includes a 90 day, money back, no questions asked
clause. Of course, the unit will have to not be damaged, but it will give
you a chance to review the unit.
Thank you for your continued interest.
Gillian C. D'Ancicco
Business Manager
Dynon Development Inc.
19501 144th Ave NE
Suite C-500
Woodinville, WA 98072
(425)402-4404 Phone (425)984-1751 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com [mailto:menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com]
Subject: EFIS D-10 beta testing reports?
Hi Gillian,
Are there any beta testers or non-Dynon individuals out there who have used
the EFIS D-10 in flight who can vouch for it to work "as advertised"? Just
curious because I thought there was going to be some folks beta testing the
unit before deliveries started but haven't heard from anyone like this.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring right now....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
Mike:
Hello. I do not remember seeing your name here before. I am building a
Lancair ES. Live outside of Memphis in a Town called Collierville. I a just
beginning to wire install gauges in my panel. Interested in that kit you
described. Is the product you bought made by a national company, perhaps at a
local electrical supply house may have it here. Would love to see some photos
of the back just to get routing ideas.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Beta testers, anyone?? |
Mark:
They will begin sending out units March 3rd. They are happy with there
final testing. Beta test units are available, however, I did not apply as
thay want aircraft that are flying. I have not heard of anymore units that
have been handed out.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Circuit Breakers |
I couldn't believe it, but they seem to be
real. Circuit breakers that plug into the
blade fuse blocks!
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page107.html
They are cheap too ($3.95!) Don't think they'll
end up in my plane tho.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | N2GX Fist Flight |
I flew RV6 N2GX for the first time today.
Uneventful, except for the unlocked canopy.
Thanks to all in the Aeroelectric list. I've learned much from you.
Special thanks to Bob Nuckolls. Your book has been most informative.
Your willingness to share your experiences is admirable.
Incidentally I spent close to six months (5 days a week) wiring my IFR
panel.
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX. 2 hours. South Florida
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
>
>
>Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
>connectors are.
>
>I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
>to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
>However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or could
>some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
I wouldn't put high voltage on these connectors. The
connectors would be just fine . . . for awhile. They
are not designed to ward off effects of environmental
contamination that promotes breakdown and arcing between
closely spaced terminals. Stay with the fat-wire (.093" pins)
white nylon connectors as the low cost solution for
this one application.
I design the d-subs into systems at 30 volts and below.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | N2GX Fist Flight |
> I flew RV6 N2GX for the first time today.
Congrats, Gabe, from another S. Floridian.
I'm curious - where did the fist fight come in? Deciding who gets to fly the
second flight?
John Slade
Cozy IV
West Palm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Yes, I am aware of this capability (looking at the source code) and have
>done it to (laboriously) look at some of his pages.
>All you say about his and your site is true - although not everyone has
>the aptitude to learn HTML to do what you did :-) .
It didn't take long. I ripped off some simple pages from
the 'net, bought an HTML for Dummies book that did a good
job explaining about 20 commands that cover 99% of your
needs. Spent a weekend experimenting with the effects of
changes to the ripped pages. Rudimentary .html ain't that
hard.
>I hope Eric is reading this or someone tells him of this exchange. From
>what I understand his products are useful and high quality, but he will
>severely limit his market if his users cannot get the information. I
>realize that he probably cannot afford to pay someone to create a snazzy
>web site at this time. On the other hand, he doesn't need a snazzy web
>site - just one that is usable. Hopefully he knows someone that would
>be willing to help him get a web site together that is rudimentary but
>readable rather than complex but not readable.
I've been bugging him to get "on the 'net" and even suggested
that he rip my webpages to get started. I've suggest to more
than one OBAM aircraft builder to get the airplane flying
in the J-3 mode first. Get your 25/40 hours flown off. Once
the nosey folks are satisfied and go away, then work incrementally
toward the machine of your dreams but never in such big steps
that the airplane is down for more than a week or so. This
way you get the benefits of being able to go flying while
the phase-two details are worked out.
One could build a website the same way. It wouldn't take
but a couple of hours to clone my website and trim it
to get Eric's stuff out for the world to see and order.
Adding the fancier features can be saved for cold winter
nights when there's nothing better to do.
Saw another post where Bill Steer offered to help.
Thanks Bill.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers |
>
>
>I couldn't believe it, but they seem to be
>real. Circuit breakers that plug into the
>blade fuse blocks!
Been around for years . . .
> http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page107.html
>
>They are cheap too ($3.95!) Don't think they'll
>end up in my plane tho.
Wouldn't end up in my plane either . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 charge light |
>
>Dear list,
>I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I need.
>The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be used
>as the charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind
>anywhere. I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal
>Town and local electronics stores to no avail.
>I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no
>indication of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2 watt
>bulb which is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
>
>Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the
>3 watt rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
No, any 12v lamp will work. 3W or .250 mA is a MAX rating.
But you could leave this lamp out completely in favor
of active notification of low voltage which is a much
more definitive notification of alternator failure than
any of the common warning lights built into regulators.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim V. Wickert" <JimW_btg(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Beta testers--reply from Dynon |
One important point to understand with this statement is they are and have
been very honest with everyone on product results, delivery, development
and testing to date results. In our industry what more can we ask for but
this??
Jim Wickert
Vision #159
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Message resend Sheild Termination/ Power cable |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
My partner faxed you copies of the wire diagrams on Saturday in the event
mine from earlier in the week did not make it.
I am re-posting the questions in the chance you still don't have the
originals.
> Hi Bob,
>>
>> The shields for the mic and phone inputs and then the outputs to the com
>> radios for my PMA4000 Audio Panel/Intercom are shown terminated to "Lo" at
>> the intercom only. Fine. The outputs are shown going to Com 1 and Com 2 and
>> the shield is left unconnected. The unswitched audio connection to the GPS
>> is also shown grounded only at the intercom, fine.
>>
>> The problem ... the wire diagram for the Icom radios show the mic and phone
>> shields making a connection at the radio, actually it looks like they are
>> using a single shielded conductor and using the shield as the ground/return
>> wire. The GPS also shows the audio to the intercom with the shield
>> terminated at the GPS end.
>>
>> Do I need to make some phone calls?
>
> It wouldn't hurt . . . but if you've deduced that some shields
> are attached at both ends for the purposes of providing
> ground return, then a double ended connection makes
> sense. I'm mystified by the shields with NO connection,
> I would return these to ground at the black box where
> the center conductors provide INPUTS.
>
> Can you scan/mail or fax me copies of the drawings?
> It's always easier to sort these things out when
> we're both looking at the same pieces of paper.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, I will fax copies to 316-685-8617.
I am heading over to the workshop, will send them after lunch.
I have used three conductor shielded wire for both mic and audio runs as it
made economical sense to go this way.
I must have miscommunicated. None of the shields are left hanging at both
ends. It is just that PS Engineering shows termination at there unit only
and the GPS and Coms show termination at there end.
Don
Hi Bob,
Faxed you the wire diagrams and an antenna "farm" consideration this
afternoon. I hope it all came through I was using my sisters fax and am a
rookie at it.
In the process of faxing I had the pleasure of talking with a very pleasant
and upbeat lady ... thank her for me for being so patient.
Note on the Icom page under Power cable wiring, the statement "Use 2 pairs
of #18 wires for power and power grounding wiring. 2 pairs? I am not sure
what they mean. Use 2 separate conductors for power ... one to pin 14 and
the other to pin R and then tie them together at the fuse? The ground pins
6-15-F- S ... a pair of conductors to ground these pins?????
I have also added the pin numbers on the Icom sheet that I feel will hook up
with the pins on the intercom. I hope my notations are clear.
Thanks much,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 charge light |
According to my handy pocket reference (from Harbor Freight) the GE331 lamp
Shay is questioning is rated at 1.35 volts .06 amps.
Bill Lamb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912 charge light
>
> >
> >Dear list,
> >I posted about this topic a while ago and I still haven't found what I
need.
> >The wiring diag. for the Rotax 912s specifies a 12v. 3watt bulb to be
used
> >as the charge ind. light. I can't find a bulb and holder of this kind
> >anywhere. I've tried RadioShack,Aircraft Spruce, Aeroelectric, Terminal
> >Town and local electronics stores to no avail.
> >I have two bulb holders I got from salvage. One has a GE331 bulb with no
> >indication of what voltage or wattage it is. The other has a 12v / 2
watt
> >bulb which is the closest I've come to the correct spec.
> >
> >Has anyone wired up this light and what kind of bulb did you use? Is the
> >3 watt rating crucial for operation of ther charge lamp?
>
> No, any 12v lamp will work. 3W or .250 mA is a MAX rating.
> But you could leave this lamp out completely in favor
> of active notification of low voltage which is a much
> more definitive notification of alternator failure than
> any of the common warning lights built into regulators.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Hey don't wear it out, that's my name.
Yes, I know my website has a problem with the Ms Web wizard stuff and Netscape
stuff. I am recreating the whole thing so that Netscape and Opera and six or seven
other "off-brand" (just kidding) browsers can read it.
In the meantime...folks with Ms products won't have much problem. I checked this
thing on several Windows computers with few issues, then people running Netcape
3.0 Linux on Apple 4 computers started to complain...yikes!
Thanks for the encouragement and the kind words. Have faith.....soon.....
www.PerihelionProducts.com
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy.
--Dave Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<< Nice idea about using d-sub pins and heat shrink for an inline splice
in
>small wires.>>
For what is worth, in situations like this I usually double the wire back
over the "splice", making an "S" out of it and then heat-shrink the whole
thing. Makes more of a lump in the wiring, but totally eliminates any
tensile load on the connection. I do the same thing if I have to put a
diode in-line without support.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <bjapundza(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | regulator/charging voltage questions |
Hi Bob,
I have a small Denso alternator that is indentical in
form-factor to the B&C alternator but it has the
built-in regulator. I have a lightweight 17ah
Panasonic battery that I believe will be adequate to
turn over my IO-540. This battery has the same specs
as the Odyssey but only cost $36. In the battery
datasheet Panasonic specifies a charging voltage of
14.5-14.9 volts. I noticed that the Odyssey specs are
based on a 14.7v charging voltage. At this point I am
going to disable the internal regulator so I can use
an adjustable external regulator and OV protection
without a contactor. With this in mind I have a few
questions:
1. Other than maybe a slight reduction in the lifespan
of incandescent bulbs, do you see any problems with
running the electrical system at 14.5? I assume the
13.8 volt systems were set at that voltage because
that is the ideal voltage for normal (i.e., non-rg or
vented batteries?)
2. Is the difference noticable between linear
regulators such as the B&C and cheap switching-type
regulators you can buy at Autozone, as far as
electrical system noise goes?
3. With the battery in back, and the alternator in
front, I assume the place for the regulator would be
as close to the alternator as possible?
4. I haven't opened up my alternator yet, but other
than making sure all diodes are connected to the
ground and power lug respectively, is there any advice
you could offer when disabling the internal regulator?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 QB under const.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charger |
Bob
Do you have any recomendations for a good battery charger for the sealed batteries.
Jim Robinson
Glasair 79R nearing first flight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Logan <Rob(at)logan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: secure transactions |
|July 24, 2002) at 02/26/2003 11:12:38 AM,
Serialize by Router on mtasmtp2-clev/P/SERVER/PHILIPS-CLE(Release 5.0.11
|July
24, 2002) at 02/26/2003 11:13:11 AM,
Serialize complete at 02/26/2003 11:13:11 AM
As the owner of an ISP, the risk of "snooping" the wire
is greatest on a cable modem line or co-hosting site
that use hubs rather than switches for clients (rare).
as the pipes come together and get fatter it get
harder to tap, and the cpu required to "snoop" goes
up a huge amount.
the "risk" is much greater protecting the accounting
system, or the transaction house.
I still send my credit card number over clear text email
or web when ever required..
-- Source of Credit Card Security Breach Disclosed
(18/19 February 2003)
The locus of the massive credit card security breach has been traced
to a computer system at Omaha-based Data Processors International,
a company that handles credit card transactions for catalogs and
direct marketers. It appears the security breach was launched from
the outside; information is being analyzed to see if there is a
trail that will lead to the hacker. Data Processors International
also handles American Express accounts. There have been no reported
cases of credit card fraud so far, and it isn't clear if the hacker
actually stole any information.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/874307.asp?0dm=C236T
http://www.msnbc.com/news/874907.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
-- Banks Cancel Cards After Security Breach
(20/21 February 2003)
Pittsburgh's PNC bank has canceled 16,000 Visa cards after being
informed that their card were among those exposed in the recent
security breach; they are in the process of issuing new cards to
their customers. MasterCards issued by Rhode Island-based Citizens'
Financial Group were also affected by the breach.
http://www.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20030220pnc0220p4.asp
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-02-21-hack-attack_x.htm
--
Utopian Maturity: Eternity, Liberty, Equality and now Fraternity & Altruism.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors |
Bob - thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AMP CPC or Equivalent Connectors
>
>
>Bob - I was interested in your comments below about how versatile D-sub
>connectors are.
>
>I have always discarded the idea of running the strobe wires - power supply
>to head - through one of these assuming they would not take the voltage.
>However I do not know what voltage is in those wires. Am I correct, or
could
>some like AMP/Tyco's HDP-22 take it?
I wouldn't put high voltage on these connectors. The
connectors would be just fine . . . for awhile. They
are not designed to ward off effects of environmental
contamination that promotes breakdown and arcing between
closely spaced terminals. Stay with the fat-wire (.093" pins)
white nylon connectors as the low cost solution for
this one application.
I design the d-subs into systems at 30 volts and below.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery charger |
>
>
>Bob
>
>Do you have any recomendations for a good battery charger for the sealed
>batteries.
If you want a charger to boost a battery that is known to
be in some state less than full charge . . . anything
you pick up at the car parts store is fine. Just leave
it on no longer than required to top the battery off.
Look for an "automatic shutoff" feature . . . this is always
good too. There is NOTHING magic about chargers for flooded
vis-a-vis sealed lead-acid batteries . . . I've seen some
add which suggest that one needs to select a battery charger
with care lest you get one that's "okay" for flooded batteries
and "killer" for sealed batteries.
Any charger with "killer instincts" will kill any
kind of battery.
If you want a maintenance charger and/or you're not looking
for short term boost capability, then consider something
like
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/6.pdf
. . . here you see a little automatic charger that
can be left on your battery indefinitely. This little
charger will recharge a totally dead battery of any
size. We had a thread on here a few weeks ago wherein
someone suggested that a small maintenance or "trickle"
charger was unsuited for recharging depleted batteries.
Not true. As long as the charging source puts out more
current than the self-discharge or leakage current
within the battery, the excess current will charge
the battery . . . it may take many hours to days but
it WILL charge the battery.
Folks have put 100 mA solar arrays on their hangars
thinking that this little bit of current can't possibly
hurt their battery. After sitting unattended for months,
many have come out to fly only to find that their
battery is cooked. "Automatic" is the key word for
extended unattended operation of any charger connected
to any battery technology.
A charger good for both boost and maintenance is
shown here:
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/9.pdf
. . . but if you use an RG battery and fly regularly,
you should never find yourself in need of a battery
charger. A ground power jack for extended maintenance
operations on the ground is a pretty good idea too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
Looking for suggestions for how to get wires thru the firewall ie connector
suggestions, how about battery cables? EMF problems with thermocouples?
Thanks
Jim Butcher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Design brainstorming - help, please? |
I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
back when I push a button.
There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
controlled.
The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
for the job.
The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
need to close again.
I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
radio control, I'd be thankful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
>
>I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
>a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
>My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
>plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
>need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
>back when I push a button.
>
>There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
>place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
>thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
>controlled.
>
>The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
>door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
>move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
>mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
>thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
>for the job.
Consider door held shut by short stroke pin through
a clevis . . . You can get very small solenoids with
a goodly amount of pull force over short distances of
say .25" or less. They can take a lot of current but
a AA ni-cad pack will produce a lot of current for
the very short interval needed to pull the pin.
>The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
>and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
>there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
>need to close again.
See http://www.rfdigital.com/
>I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
>
>If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
>radio control, I'd be thankful.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 09:45 PM, richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
> I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as
> good
> a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
> My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane.
> My
> plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window.
> I
> need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in
> front and
> back when I push a button.
>
Richard--I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I never met your father,
but I suspect he is largely responsible for the traits I admire in
you...
Could you run a pull string to a main gear well? I have heard of
people scattering ashes by placing them in a paper bag with a "rip
cord." Simple, reliable, "appropriate technology".
Maybe you could put the ashes in a main gear well, pull a string to
open the bag, and fly the whole mission with the gear down and locked.
IIRC the gear well is a foot or so outside the prop arc and they should
scatter in the prop/wing wash without reentering vents or the cockpit.
I've read that opening a window in cessnas fills the cabin and aft fuse
with ashes.
HTH
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
Sorry to hear of your loss - you have my condolences.
How tight is your canopy? Would it be possible to run a length of
monofilament fish line through the canopy/fuselage joint to the canister
and just pull on it to release a pull pin to allow the doors to open?
Or possibly route it through a ventilation port?
Dick Tasker
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
>I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
>a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
>
>My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane. My
>plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window. I
>need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in front and
>back when I push a button.
>
>There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
>place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there. So, I'm
>thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and radio
>controlled.
>
>The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of electric car
>door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so you can
>move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That would
>mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
>thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and powered
>for the job.
>
>The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC car
>and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on over
>there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they don't
>need to close again.
>
>I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
>
>If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators and
>radio control, I'd be thankful.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
>Richard--I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I never met your father,
>but I suspect he is largely responsible for the traits I admire in
>you...
>
>Could you run a pull string to a main gear well? I have heard of
>people scattering ashes by placing them in a paper bag with a "rip
>cord." Simple, reliable, "appropriate technology".
>
>Maybe you could put the ashes in a main gear well, pull a string to
>open the bag, and fly the whole mission with the gear down and locked.
>IIRC the gear well is a foot or so outside the prop arc and they should
>scatter in the prop/wing wash without reentering vents or the cockpit.
Thanks, James. I can't go that way, for a couple of reasons.
I'm going to be doing this several times, scattering a little bit at each
of many places. Yosemite, Kill Devil Hill, La Bourget Airport, Eugene OR
(where he was born) Laurel, MS (where his father was born). Some will be
in the middle of cross country flights, and performance with gear down is
awful.
Second, my dad wouldn't have done it that way. He was a builder, he's why
I'm a builder. Even my grandfather was a builder. He was a flight
instructor for the signal corps during the first world war. He pulled up
the cornstalks to lay out the first runways at Kelly Field.
Right now I'm having to rebuild the landing gear on the Berkut, one of the
parts was *way* under engineered. I looked at several ways to do it,
widely varying in cost from about $100 (the half assed way) to about $3000
(the gold plated way). A couple of months ago I ran down all the options
for him, to ask his advice on which way to go. He said "Just do it right."
>I've read that opening a window in cessnas fills the cabin and aft fuse
>with ashes.
I've read that too. I'm actually going to keep a little in a tube in my
plane permanently. I don't need God as my co-pilot, that position is
already filled.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Vosters" <jvosters(at)adelphia.net> |
Bob,
What do you recommend for a 24 volt power supply to power the aircraft on
the ground for extended maintenance and testing or can you just use the
battery power with a boast charger connected?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: battery charger
>
>
>Bob
>
>Do you have any recomendations for a good battery charger for the sealed
>batteries.
If you want a charger to boost a battery that is known to
be in some state less than full charge . . . anything
you pick up at the car parts store is fine. Just leave
it on no longer than required to top the battery off.
Look for an "automatic shutoff" feature . . . this is always
good too. There is NOTHING magic about chargers for flooded
vis-a-vis sealed lead-acid batteries . . . I've seen some
add which suggest that one needs to select a battery charger
with care lest you get one that's "okay" for flooded batteries
and "killer" for sealed batteries.
Any charger with "killer instincts" will kill any
kind of battery.
If you want a maintenance charger and/or you're not looking
for short term boost capability, then consider something
like
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/6.pdf
. . . here you see a little automatic charger that
can be left on your battery indefinitely. This little
charger will recharge a totally dead battery of any
size. We had a thread on here a few weeks ago wherein
someone suggested that a small maintenance or "trickle"
charger was unsuited for recharging depleted batteries.
Not true. As long as the charging source puts out more
current than the self-discharge or leakage current
within the battery, the excess current will charge
the battery . . . it may take many hours to days but
it WILL charge the battery.
Folks have put 100 mA solar arrays on their hangars
thinking that this little bit of current can't possibly
hurt their battery. After sitting unattended for months,
many have come out to fly only to find that their
battery is cooked. "Automatic" is the key word for
extended unattended operation of any charger connected
to any battery technology.
A charger good for both boost and maintenance is
shown here:
http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/9.pdf
. . . but if you use an RG battery and fly regularly,
you should never find yourself in need of a battery
charger. A ground power jack for extended maintenance
operations on the ground is a pretty good idea too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
What is the diameter of the connection post on the fuse blocks B&C
sells? Need to order terminals!
TIA- Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DC Power Master switch |
> Bob: Planning simple day-VFR RV6A panel. Possiblly later on upgrade to
> night VFR with one electronic ignition. I am referencing Fig Z-11 with
> toggle switches. I am confused by different reference to swiches for
> battery/alternator master switch (2-3 or 2-10 depends if you reference
> Z-11 or switch 2-3 verbage on p11-18.)
>Hopefully this was an easy question, and not too stupid. Thanks.
The purpose of this switch is to make sure that alternator
is never on without also having the battery on. The low-dollar
solution is to use a 2-3 switch and have the battery and
alternator come on and off together. When running battery
only for extended periods of time, one can pull the crowbar
ov breaker supplying the field to shut off the alternator.
A sexier, somewhat more expensive solution is to use the
progressive transfer, 2-10 switch wired so that down
is OFF, mid is BAT only, up is BAB+ALT . . . then you
don't have to pull the breaker to get battery-only
operation.
Either technique works just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: regulator/charging voltage questions |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I have a small Denso alternator that is indentical in
>form-factor to the B&C alternator but it has the
>built-in regulator. I have a lightweight 17ah
>Panasonic battery that I believe will be adequate to
>turn over my IO-540. This battery has the same specs
>as the Odyssey but only cost $36. In the battery
>datasheet Panasonic specifies a charging voltage of
>14.5-14.9 volts. I noticed that the Odyssey specs are
>based on a 14.7v charging voltage. At this point I am
>going to disable the internal regulator so I can use
>an adjustable external regulator and OV protection
>without a contactor. With this in mind I have a few
>questions:
>1. Other than maybe a slight reduction in the lifespan
>of incandescent bulbs, do you see any problems with
>running the electrical system at 14.5? I assume the
>13.8 volt systems were set at that voltage because
>that is the ideal voltage for normal (i.e., non-rg or
>vented batteries?)
The nominal setpoint for system voltage in aircraft
has been 14.2 for at least 40 years. Variations
over the range of 13.8 to as high as 14.8 or so
will have little effect on battery life
ESPECIALLY if you subscribe to a preventative
maintenance change-out of battery every year
to INSURE a minimum capacity is available for
alternator-out operations. Setpoints trending
to the mid or upper half of that range are
useful to assist in rapid recharge of a battery
that has been tagged for a hard-start or other
debilitating duty.
>2. Is the difference noticable between linear
>regulators such as the B&C and cheap switching-type
>regulators you can buy at Autozone, as far as
>electrical system noise goes?
It's measurable in the lab but in practice, not
significantly different.
>3. With the battery in back, and the alternator in
>front, I assume the place for the regulator would be
>as close to the alternator as possible?
No, as close to main bus as possible.
>4. I haven't opened up my alternator yet, but other
>than making sure all diodes are connected to the
>ground and power lug respectively, is there any advice
>you could offer when disabling the internal regulator?
The ND alternator is not easy to modify. Mechanical
features of the brush interconnection are molded
into the regulator housing. Unless you've done this
before, there is risk . . .
How about running the built in regulator and
adding external ov protection as shown in Appendix
Z?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Message resend Sheild Termination/ |
Power cable
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>My partner faxed you copies of the wire diagrams on Saturday in the event
>mine from earlier in the week did not make it.
>I am re-posting the questions in the chance you still don't have the
>originals.
Got the faxes. Haven't got around to looking at them yet.
Will try for this evening.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>
>What do you recommend for a 24 volt power supply to power the aircraft on
>the ground for extended maintenance and testing or can you just use the
>battery power with a boast charger connected?
That would probably work okay. The only risk is that you might
hear 60/120 cycle noise on some electronics from the battery
charger. This doesn't hurt anything and will obviously go
away when the alternator becomes the source of energy. Again,
use a charger with an automatic control of output voltage.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Design brainstorming - help, please? |
I read a story about a parachute maker who used to toss shove-dummies out of his
airplane. Worried that one of his dummies or parachutes would get tangled on
the tail, he installed a couple eyebolts under each wing and sewed a couple rings
on each of his test dummies, ran a piece of wire through the mess and had
a good system for testing.
His only cautionary comment was, "If you put bomb racks on your Cessna, you WILL
get a visit from the FBI !"
This may go doubly-so in today's terrorist climate. This even worries me a bit....you're
going to drop stuff from your airplane all over the beautiful spots
in the West......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???? And Allah is your copilot?......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????
The real issues are not technical.......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............?
Best regards,
Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Mark,
The post is a 10-32 screw.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>
> What is the diameter of the connection post on the fuse blocks B&C
> sells? Need to order terminals!
>
> TIA- Mark
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Logan <Rob(at)logan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
|July 24, 2002) at 02/27/2003 10:35:21 AM,
Serialize by Router on mtasmtp2-clev/P/SERVER/PHILIPS-CLE(Release 5.0.11
|July
24, 2002) at 02/27/2003 10:35:55 AM,
Serialize complete at 02/27/2003 10:35:55 AM
> This may go doubly-so in today's terrorist climate.
it seem like every time our little group gets together
to fly some formation now a-days, we generate calls
to local police. http://rob.com/pra/gwo/
the best trick we found now is to fly out of towered airports
only so the police can call the tower who explains
what we are doing is perfectly legal.
[oh to stay on topic, I would stick with a little bag one
can open with fish line, attach to wing / canard via strobe
holes.. -Rob ]
--
Utopian Maturity: Eternity, Liberty, Equality and now Fraternity & Altruism.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Michael" <MJones(at)hatch.ca> |
| Subject: | fast on connectors |
Hi all
Does anyone know if fast on spade terminals are all the same quality no
matter where you get them, rqdio shack, home depot etc
regards
mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
Not even close!!!
Jones, Michael wrote:
>
>Hi all
>
>Does anyone know if fast on spade terminals are all the same quality no
>matter where you get them, rqdio shack, home depot etc
>
>regards
>
>mike
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
In a message dated 2/27/03 10:04:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
retasker(at)optonline.net writes:
Not even close!!!
Jones, Michael wrote:
>
>Hi all
>
>Does anyone know if fast on spade terminals are all the same quality no
>matter where you get them, rqdio shack, home depot etc
>
>regards
>
>mike >>
To expand on that a little, none of the fast on terminals carried by the
stores you mentioned, or for that matter by most electronics stores in this
area, are PIDG type. For PIDG terminals you'll probably have to order from
Mouser, Digi-ky, direct from Aeroelectric, etc.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
Mike
No, they are not the same quality. I would recommend t&b or amp. I also
recommend buying the right tool to install them. The one the manufacturer
specify's using. The racheting kind, that will not release until the lug is
fully crimped.
Ron Raby
N829R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones(at)hatch.ca>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fast on connectors
>
> Hi all
>
> Does anyone know if fast on spade terminals are all the same quality no
> matter where you get them, rqdio shack, home depot etc
>
> regards
>
> mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Likar" <glikar(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
Have you thought of using shape memory alloys? Mondo-tronics has an
inexpensive, very light but rugged linear actuator (electric piston). It
shortens by 0.75" and can lift 1 pound. The kit came with a 6 volt
Polapulse battery, same as you'll find in a Polaroid camera film pack. It
will supply a up to 15amps instanteous and measures ~1/8" x 3.8" x 3", also
very light. The actuator could be controlled with a reciever from a MiniRC
Car, the type that kids are crasy about these days. Pick one at Walart for
under $20.00. With simple circuitry between the receivers motor output and
the electric piston you should end up with compact and light weight hardware
with plenty of power to controll a door. Use levers to change the stroke
lenght of the piston.
Best regards!
Gord
I need brainstorming help with initial design concepts, and this is as good
a group as it gets. This one's a little unusual.
My father died last month. I want to scatter his ashes from my plane.
My
plane's a canard pusher - a Berkut - and I can't just open the window.
I
need to build a pod that will hold his ashes, then open a door in
front and
back when I push a button.
There's a wing tiedown point halfway out the wing that makes a natural
place to attach, but there's no electrical system available there.
So, I'm
thinking I'll make it self contained, with batteries built in, and
radio
controlled.
The door actuators should be self limiting. I was thinking of
electric car
door lock actuators, but they seem to have a centrifugal clutch, so
you can
move the lock button manually and not back drive the motor. That
would
mean the actuator wouldn't keep the doors closed, so at the moment I'm
thinking of electric car window motors, but they seem oversized and
powered
for the job.
The radio control, I'm not sure of. I'm thinking of buying a cheap RC
car
and tearing it apart. All I need is "press button, switch goes on
over
there" - I don't need any proportionality, and once they're open they
don't
need to close again.
I know both doors will have to open toward the rear.
If anyone has any ideas either about design or sources for actuators
and
radio control, I'd be thankful
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Didn't mean to be pushy |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
Certainly understand. Didn't mean to be pushy. Just wanted to make sure the
technology (fax) had worked.
Thanks for your kind help,
Don B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | self exciting alternator |
Bob
What is the disadvantage to having a self exciting
alternator w/ the regulator within the alternator?
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob:
Before I purchase anything from B&C or aeroelectric, will there be
anybody from these two establishments be at SUN & FUN this year. Most venders
at these shows, have some kind of discount.
Ed Silvanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ford Motrorcraft alternator |
Bob:
Just got back from my engine manufacturer that their Ford alternator
does not have an internal controller. So I ask. Is this a good alternator? I
am happy that it does not have an internal controller because it gives my
Z-14 some simplicity, i.e. two of the same kind of controllers. So, I need
one of your famous "If it were my plane" recommendations. Should I go with
the Ford or switch so as to have both alternators from B&C?
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
N823MS
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SPEAKING OF DIODES |
I really want to understand where the diode goes on a relay. Which senario
is correct. It goes from the small terminal which is switched to 12v, or
to ground?
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Design brainstorming - help, please? |
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 01:07 AM, richard(at)riley.net wrote:
> I'm going to be doing this several times, scattering a little bit at
> each
> of many places. Yosemite, Kill Devil Hill, La Bourget Airport, Eugene
> OR
> (where he was born) Laurel, MS (where his father was born). Some will
> be
> in the middle of cross country flights, and performance with gear down
> is
> awful.
>
OK, some tighter parameters. Aftermarket car power door lock actuators
are available new for ten bucks or so. Complete keyless entry systems
are a little more but you should be be able to put everything together
for under $100. A couple of quick hits (from Google):
http://www.commandoalarms.com/itmidx11.htm
http://www.commandoalarms.com/itm10005.htm
I suspect you could power everything from a single 9v battery, or a
pack of AA or AAA if they really need 12v.
If you mount an appropriately sized piece of thinwall tubing under the
wing on your hardpoint and aligned into local flow, I wonder if you
could use a sprinkler valve/servo to open the front end to the
slipstream and push the ashes out the back. The potato cannon/spud gun
guys use these in some pressure fed designs.
HTH
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Materials/parts |
>
>Bob:
>
> Before I purchase anything from B&C or aeroelectric, will there be
>anybody from these two establishments be at SUN & FUN this year. Most venders
>at these shows, have some kind of discount.
B&C is usually there. Check with them at 316.283.8000 to be
sure. The years I worked the shows for Bill, he didn't
have show specials . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro connectors |
>hi bob
>
>i have got my electric gyros and just got the amphenol conectors for the
>back. i assume i need to get the mini pin connectors to attach to wires to
>the plug that goes into the amphenol connectors, i dont solder wires to
>the back of the amphenol connector.
>
>thank
>
>mike
I presume the style of connector you have has loose
pins. These are normally crimped to wires before
the pins are inserted into the connector. They can
be soldered but one has to be very careful not to
allow any solder to contaminate the outside surface
of the pin which will make it difficult if not
impossible to seat into the connector.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SPEAKING OF DIODES |
Scott -
Go to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
Scroll down to "How it works", and click on:
"An illustrated discussion about spike catching diodes and how they work."
It's all there. I had to read it slooowly a few times but Bob makes
it quite clear.
Bill
>I really want to understand where the diode goes on a relay. Which senario
>is correct. It goes from the small terminal which is switched to 12v, or
>to ground?
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Motrorcraft alternator |
Ed,
Which Ford alternator are you referring to. I have done considerable
research, looking for an "off the shelf" externally regulated automotive
alternator, that I could easily replace, in "East Wherever," should the need
arise.
So far, I have not come up with one that meets my needs. If you have
found one, I'd appreciate knowing the part#.........LRE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
Here's the layout. RV7QB. Existing holes with snap in bushings were drilled out
for a 1/2" ID conduit. I have ran the landing light wire, the nav light wire
and the strobe wires (Whelens)in the conduit. I also want to mount a comm antenna
in one wing tip and a nav in the other.
I'd like to know if I can run the coax for the nav and comm antennas in the conduit
with the other wiring? Is there a potential interference problem? And, if
so, how far apart should they be run?
Thanks in advance.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Motrorcraft alternator |
>
>Bob:
>
> Just got back from my engine manufacturer that their Ford alternator
>does not have an internal controller. So I ask. Is this a good alternator? I
>am happy that it does not have an internal controller because it gives my
>Z-14 some simplicity, i.e. two of the same kind of controllers. So, I need
>one of your famous "If it were my plane" recommendations. Should I go with
>the Ford or switch so as to have both alternators from B&C?
I thought we'd talked about this but maybe it was with someone
else. If I've already bought and paid for a Ford alternator,
I'd go ahead and run it. It will work fine with the B&C regulators.
Who knows, I may have an alternator that's running at the top
of the bell-curve.
First time it craps, make a decision based on how it died
and how long it took to make the fix/replace decision. That
could be many years off and since you have two alternators,
this approach presents zero risk.
This re-enforces the idea that a system designed to be
failure tolerant is more reliable than one wherein
designers hope to gain reliability by specification
and other forms of wishful thinking.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
Darwin,
You can run these together. There should not be a problem. You can
check out http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/ for pictures of how I
ran the exact same wires in the wings of my F1 Rocket. Go to the F1
Rocket Project section and click on the Wings section. The pictures
also show using the spar as the ground point for the landing and
position lights as well as the use of a quick disconnect fitting at the
wing root.
Randy
F1 Rocket #95
----- Original Message -----
From: ktlkrn(at)cox.net
Date: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:35 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wing wiring
>
> Here's the layout. RV7QB. Existing holes with snap in bushings
> were drilled out for a 1/2" ID conduit. I have ran the landing
> light wire, the nav light wire and the strobe wires (Whelens)in
> the conduit. I also want to mount a comm antenna in one wing tip
> and a nav in the other.
>
> I'd like to know if I can run the coax for the nav and comm
> antennas in the conduit with the other wiring? Is there a
> potential interference problem? And, if so, how far apart should
> they be run?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
>
>
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= !! NEWish !!
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= List Related Information
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeEasley(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
I have an electronic surplus store locally that has quite a good selection of
the right kind of ring and fast-on connectors. I've bought most of my
quantities from B&C and A/S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DC Power Master switch |
Apparently, there are situations I don't know about in which it would be advantageous
to run battery only power to the main bus. Would you describe them, Bob?
I was planning a 2-3 master switch and a fused alternator field circuit protected
by crowbar OV. In fact, why not use a 1-3 master and leave the alternator
permanently connected to the main bus?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SPEAKING OF DIODES |
>
>
>Scott -
>
>Go to:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
>Scroll down to "How it works", and click on:
>"An illustrated discussion about spike catching diodes and how they work."
>
>It's all there. I had to read it slooowly a few times but Bob makes
>it quite clear.
>
>Bill
>
>
> >I really want to understand where the diode goes on a relay. Which senario
> >is correct. It goes from the small terminal which is switched to 12v, or
> >to ground?
The article cited above speaks to the electrical positioning
of the diode for effective operation, the MECHANICAL positioning
depends on the particular contactor or relay. For example:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
shows how we attache the diodes to a contactor wherein
both terminals of the energizing coil are brought out
to small terminals on the side. The diode always goes
across the contactor or relay coil. When you use a contactor
with a coil lead connnected internally to the "BAT" terminal
then the diode has to run between the "BAT" terminal (banded
end) and the single small coil terminal.
For many starter contactors, the coil is internally connected
to the contactor base . . . this means that the diode has
to run between the small coil terminal (banded end) and
the base. The contactors we offer all come with diodes
installed on outside as in picture above or installed
internally as with our S702-1
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s702-1l.jpg
Here's an example of how a diode can be installed on the
smaller, S704-1 relay
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/s704inst.jpg
The rating of the diode is insignificant. Any silicon
rectifier diode will do the job electrically on any
contator or relay. For smaller tasks 1N4000 series
devices (1A rated) are handy. For larger tasks,
I prefer the 1N5400 series for their mechanical
robustness. Both diodes are available from Radio Shack.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: self exciting alternator |
>
>Bob
>
>What is the disadvantage to having a self exciting
>alternator w/ the regulator within the alternator?
Not sure what you mean my "self exciting". I suspect
your talking about alternators with built in regulators.
Either internally or externally regulated alernators
can be used in an airplane. Examples of both are shown
in Appendix Z wiring diagrams. Most of the diagrams show
externally regulated alternators. Figure Z-24 shows the
difference for substituting an internally regulated
alternators.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diode mounting |
>
>Greetings A-list-
>
>I need to put a diode in the circuit between my starter contactor (for
>example) and annunciator panel lamp (incandescent) for proper operation
>of the annunciator's push-to-test function. Does anyone know of a
>technique for doing this? Perhaps some automotive component? My
>annunciator lamps use .187 tabs and I could double the lead on a regular
>diode over and crimp into a red faston, then butt splice the other end
>of the diode, but there is nothing to support that flimsy little diode.
>A couple of layers of heatshrink to stiffen it up? Still not very
>mechanically sound. The diode sandwiched between a couple of butt
>splices then covered with shrink is also not too appealing.
>
>One alternative is to add a terminal strip and run all wires through it,
>jumpering through the diodes to adjacent terminals- adds a lot of
>connections and takes a lot of space, as I have 16 diodes to install.
>Any elegant solutions out there?
The need for a ptt diode array is common to all annunciator panels.
In the big airplanes, this is either built into a custom annunicator
panel -or- the diode array is built onto an etched circuit board.
We often have to test both pull-up and pull-down annunicators in
the same array. This means that the ptt-diode assembly gives
us a place to assemble both circuits.
Since press-to-test ONLY test LAMP and has nothing to do with
testing associated SYSTEMS, how about going with an LED annunciator
and dispense with the PTT system entirely . . . this is a feature
that needs to fade off into the sunset along with vacuum pumps.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Didn't mean to be pushy |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Certainly understand. Didn't mean to be pushy. Just wanted to make sure the
>technology (fax) had worked.
No problem. It never hurts to rattle my cage. Got a lot
of things going on at RAC right now and loose time is
a little scarce.
>Thanks for your kind help,
>Don B.
My pleasure.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBFLESHREN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Columbia |
Yeah, that is damN cool ! I passed it on to many. THX Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DC Power Master switch |
>
>Apparently, there are situations I don't know about in which it would be
>advantageous to run battery only power to the main bus. Would you
>describe them, Bob? I was planning a 2-3 master switch and a fused
no . . CIRCUIT BREAKERed
> alternator field circuit protected by crowbar OV.
>In fact, why not use a 1-3 master and leave the alternator permanently
>connected to the main bus?
If the alternator mis-behaves, you want a way to shut it down
and leave the battery on line. You COULD do this by pulling
a breaker -OR- operating a switch. You also may want to do
some short term ground maintenance with the battery master on
and still relieve the battery of alternator field loads (as much
as 3A with the engine not running).
When you set the DC PWR MASTER switch to OFF, this means
everything is OFF . . . not just a battery. The alternator
may well run all by itself and be essentially un-controllable
except for being able to pull a breaker. Use the 2-pole switch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | self exciting alternator |
Bob
It is my understanding the the alternator has one wire
connection.
The self exciting feature feeds the field without a
separate circuit coming to the alternator.
thanks
cary rhodes
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diode mounting |
>>I need to put a diode in the circuit between my starter contactor (for
>>example) and annunciator panel lamp (incandescent) for proper operation
>>of the annunciator's push-to-test function. Does anyone know of a
>>technique for doing this?
>
> Since press-to-test ONLY test LAMP and has nothing to do with
> testing associated SYSTEMS, how about going with an LED annunciator
> and dispense with the PTT system entirely . . . this is a feature
> that needs to fade off into the sunset along with vacuum pumps.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob: Would you have a wirebook sheet on an annunciator panel with LED's. If so,
could you past a .dwg file on it.
Many thanks,
John Schroeder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
Gang,
There is an alternative to double-crimp Amp PIDG and similar. Consider
good quality uninsulated terminals with quality adhesive heat shrink for
insulation/strain relief.
Sure, nothing really wrong with PIDG. I like the above method better.
Bare terminals w/ adhesive heat shrink take a few extra moments to
install. In the context of "best airplane I can build", that doesn't matter
to me. I can physically inspect when I make the single metal-to-metal wire
crimp; it's not hidden inside anything. It's also easy to put the crimp in
exactly the right place in the middle of the barrel.
PIDG wire support is a function of the copper sleeve's crimp on the
insulation. A poor crimp (too much or too little) is worthless. Not a
problem with the right ratchet tool of course. Even with a perfect strain
relief crimp, forces are still localized in a small area of insulation and
wire. Adhesive heatshrink spreads the wire relief load across a large area
of the insulation. I think it offers superior support in both bending and in
axial pull.
The adhesive serves to totally seal the wire entry end of the terminal.
In the rare case of a corrosive environment, you can solder the
ring/spade/etc end of the terminal enough to close it, then install the heat
shrink.
The finished terminal is physically compact, far more so than a PIDG.
Looks good too, for those of you concerned about nosy airshow judges.
I've been buying my adhesive heat shrink from Del City Wire, but there
are lots of other places. Del City is at
http://www.delcity.net/wiremanagement.html
BTW, you can easily do a personal check on the tensile strength of
adhesive heat shrink (as well as it's grip strength to wire insulation and
terminal barrel) using something similar to Ye Old Milk Jug test. Insert a
wire into a terminal barrel, but don't crimp it. Just leave it loose in the
barrel and apply the heat shrink. Let it cool a minute, then hang the
terminal on a nail and apply weight to the wire. A #18 wire in an uncrimped
barrel withstands more than 15 lbs of axial load using the standard 1/8" dual
wall 3 to 1 adhesive shrink tube listed above.
Dan Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Limitations of float-based fuel gauges |
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
For the homebuilders, here is some info about the limitations
of float-based fuel gauges. In my Piper Pa22/20, the gauges
would read Empty with seven to eight gallons left in each tank.
I removed the senders, and the gauge readings linearly tracked the
position of the sender float arm. With the float arm resting
on the sender's down stop, the gauge reads Empty, and with
the float arm resting against the top stop, it reads Full.
I had the entire fuel system drained during an annual.
With the tanks empty and aircraft levelled to flight
attitude, I used a "snake light" and an inspection mirror
to look into the tank. I noticed that with no gas in
the tanks, the floats hung down such that they rest about
2" from the bottom of the tank. Since the floats sink
about 1/2" into the fuel, 2 1/2" of fuel is about 1/3 of the
capacity of the 18 gal tank that does not ever register on
the gauges.
I removed both senders from the tanks, and bent the float arms
downward, so that when each sender is reinstalled, the float
rests only about 1/8" to 1/4" from the bottom of the tank. It is
important that the float arm not rest on the bottom of the tank,
as it might eventually rub a hole in the float or tank due to
movement.
It took a couple of tries to get the bend in the arm just right.
At the suggestion of my A&P/IA, I got new fuel sender gaskets
for the final installation. I also put "Fuel Lube" on the
threads of the screws holding the sender into the tank.
Next, I refilled the tanks a gallon at a time, logging the fuel
gauge readings as the fuel was added. I logged the fuel
gauge readings in sixteenths, i.e 1/4 = 4/16, etc.
Here is the logged data:
Gal Left Right Right
0 0 0 Empty
1 0 0 Empty
2 0 0 Empty
3 0 1
4 2 2
5 3 3
6 4 4 1/4
7 5 5
8 6 6
9 7 8 1/2
10 9 9
11 10 10
12 11 11
13 13 13 3/4+
14 15 14
15 16 16 Full
16 16 16 Full
17 16 16 Full
18 16 16 Full
After bending the arms downward, it improved the accuracy of the
gauges near the Empty end, at the expense of the Full end. Now
each gauge will continue to read Full while the first three gallons
are burned, then the indications decrease linearly until there are
2 gallons in the right tank, and 3 gallons in the left tank,
respectively. With the senders suspended 1/4" above the bottom
of the tank, it takes about 2 to 3 gallons of fuel to "float" the
sender to where it begins to move and effect the gauge reading.
It is obvious from this data that the only way to get the
gauge to to follow the fuel level in the tank
over a wider range would be to allow the sender arm/float to
travel further, past its mechanical stops.
If fact, if you think about it, to get the
float to follow the fuel level all the way from the bottom
of the tank to the top of the tank, you would have to put
a "dome" on the top of the tank to provide mechanical clearance
for the float; and you would have to put a "well" on the bottom.
Obviously, this is not practical on a wing mounted tank, where
the top and bottom of the tank is within a 1/8" of the
wing skin.
There are stops on the sender which restrict the travel of the
float arm such that it can only "follow" only about 12 gallons of
change (out of 18). By bending the float arm, you can choose
which 12 gallons of change the gauge tracks. There is not much that
can be done to get the float to follow more of the total range without
having the float rub on either the top or bottom of the tank.
I now understand why float-based aircraft fuel gauges have such
a bad reputation... If the float can not faithfully follow the
full range of fuel levels in the tank, then there is nothing that
can be done to "linearize" the readings after the fact.
Mike Mladejovsky
Pacer '00Z
Skylane '1MM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fast on connectors |
>
>Gang,
> There is an alternative to double-crimp Amp PIDG and similar. Consider
>good quality uninsulated terminals with quality adhesive heat shrink for
>insulation/strain relief.
>
> Sure, nothing really wrong with PIDG. I like the above method better.
I disagree . . . particularly for the fast-ons. The alloy used
to form the fast-on needs to have a degree of springiness and tension
to maintain a good joint. Obviously, this is not so important
for ring terminals.
Please don't save pennies per joint to install components
of unknown materials used for fabrication. Folks like AMP,
Waldom, etc. have spend $millions$ in IR&D and have decades
of market experience in the design, fabrication and sales of
their products. The folk who manufacture hardware store terminals
may also do wind-up toys for kids next week and cheese graters
the next.
> Bare terminals w/ adhesive heat shrink take a few extra moments to
>install. In the context of "best airplane I can build", that doesn't matter
>to me. I can physically inspect when I make the single metal-to-metal wire
>crimp; it's not hidden inside anything. It's also easy to put the crimp in
>exactly the right place in the middle of the barrel.
>
> PIDG wire support is a function of the copper sleeve's crimp on the
>insulation. A poor crimp (too much or too little) is worthless. Not a
>problem with the right ratchet tool of course.
The "right" tool is $40 or less . . . why not own one? If I understand
you, you're not even using PLASTIGRIP style terminals (insulated but
no liner) . . . similar philosophies were offered and discussed
in . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
> Even with a perfect strain
>relief crimp, forces are still localized in a small area of insulation and
>wire. Adhesive heatshrink spreads the wire relief load across a large area
>of the insulation. I think it offers superior support in both bending and in
>axial pull.
>
> The adhesive serves to totally seal the wire entry end of the
> terminal.
>In the rare case of a corrosive environment, you can solder the
>ring/spade/etc end of the terminal enough to close it, then install the heat
>shrink.
>
> The finished terminal is physically compact, far more so than a PIDG.
>Looks good too, for those of you concerned about nosy airshow judges.
>
> I've been buying my adhesive heat shrink from Del City Wire, but there
>are lots of other places. Del City is at
>http://www.delcity.net/wiremanagement.html
>
> BTW, you can easily do a personal check on the tensile strength of
>adhesive heat shrink (as well as it's grip strength to wire insulation and
>terminal barrel) using something similar to Ye Old Milk Jug test. Insert a
>wire into a terminal barrel, but don't crimp it. Just leave it loose in the
>barrel and apply the heat shrink. Let it cool a minute, then hang the
>terminal on a nail and apply weight to the wire. A #18 wire in an uncrimped
>barrel withstands more than 15 lbs of axial load using the standard 1/8" dual
>wall 3 to 1 adhesive shrink tube listed above.
>
>Dan Horton
The facts cited are correct . . . but buyer beware when it comes
to substituting brands PARTICULARLY for fast-on terminals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: self exciting alternator |
>
>Bob
>
>It is my understanding the the alternator has one wire
>connection.
Understand. This alternator is probably not "self
exciting" . . . you still need a battery connnected
to the b-lead. Figure Z-24 still applies . . . you
just eliminate the small wire between alternator
and disconnect contactor.
>The self exciting feature feeds the field without a
>separate circuit coming to the alternator.
The term "self exciting" has been classically used to describe
an alternator that retains enough residual magnetism to come
on line with no battery assist. Virtually all commonly
available alternators require external power to come alive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Limitations of float-based fuel gauges |
>
>aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>For the homebuilders, here is some info about the limitations
>of float-based fuel gauges. In my Piper Pa22/20, the gauges
>would read Empty with seven to eight gallons left in each tank.
>I removed the senders, and the gauge readings linearly tracked the
>position of the sender float arm. With the float arm resting
>on the sender's down stop, the gauge reads Empty, and with
>the float arm resting against the top stop, it reads Full.
>I now understand why float-based aircraft fuel gauges have such
>a bad reputation... If the float can not faithfully follow the
>full range of fuel levels in the tank, then there is nothing that
>can be done to "linearize" the readings after the fact.
>
>
>Mike Mladejovsky
>Pacer '00Z
>Skylane '1MM
Mike, thank you so much for this considered contribution
of data and techniques on dealing with 1941 Pontiac
fuel gages in aircraft. Your experience closely parallels
my own. If I owned an aircraft with float based fuel
gages, I would adjust for useful activity from empty
to whatever fuel causes full-scale display. It's more
important to know how things are going on the last
half of the fuel load than the first half.
Bottom line is that this technology cannot reliably
meter fuel better than manual management with
the 'ol wrist-biscuit.
I fly first hour on one tank and then switch. Fly
second hour on #2 tank. Switch back to #1 and run it dry.
Note total endurance for #1. I KNOW that the fuel in second
tank will last longer than fuel in first tank because it didn't
have to put out the energy to climb.
Go back to #2 with RELIABLE knowledge that redline-time
for fuel remaining in #2 is equal to or greater than #1.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diode mounting |
>
>
> >>I need to put a diode in the circuit between my starter contactor (for
> >>example) and annunciator panel lamp (incandescent) for proper operation
> >>of the annunciator's push-to-test function. Does anyone know of a
> >>technique for doing this?
February 19, 2003 - February 28, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-br