AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cb
May 26, 2003 - June 10, 2003
>looking at the contacts selection and there are "30-22AWG" and "24-18AWG"
>ranges. Then there are brass, brass gold, brass pre-tin, phosphor bronze,
>etc.
>
>Then there's what Terminal Town sells, and who knows what that stuff is.
>
>I've looked on a zillion aircraft builder web sites and sure, everybody says
>to use Mate-N-Lok connectors. Ok, would if I could...nobody spells out the
>specific parts!
For wires up to and including 20AWG, I'd go for d-subs. MUCH
better connectors, easier to work with and more compact to boot.
>SHEEEEESH.
>
>Can somebody give me a CLEAR answer about which connectors are ideal for
>free-hanging applications in aircraft?
>
>How about the required tools? Since these catalogs seem to sell different
>crimpers for different style connector contacts (yes, the crimper part #s
>are *different*), I can't tell what's what.
>
>Is the BCT-1 a crimp-all-end-all tool?
I've found that it works on every open barrel pin I've tried it on
including the full range mate-n-lock, waldom/molex, and d-subs . . .
but I used it perhaps once every two years. I seldom design open barrel
pins into my products and use the tool mostly to service an existing
connector.
If you need just one or two, consider the radio shack 274-224 thru
274-242 connectors. They come in sets with appropriate pins. They
can be installed with the BCT-1. They are offered in 2 to 12 wires
per connector. The pins are size in the wire-grip for larger wires
like 14-18 . . . but you can dike the tabs down to make them suited
to the smaller wires.
What you're trying to do is get a joint that looks like figure
5 in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
The tabs for 20 and 20AWG wire are quite short.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
> > The diode needs to be rated for 15v or more and be capable
> > of carrying the same current that it takes to energize the
> > contactor (1 to 5A) for a few milliseconds. About any
> > diode rectifier is electrically suited to the task. 1N400x
> > series are fine but they are rather small, sometimes glass
> > devices that are fragile compared to the 1N540x series
> > devices that are always 1/4" diam plastic and 20AWG leads.
> >
> > If you look at the diodes we supply on the S700 series
> > contactors at
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
> > and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-2.jpg
> >
> > . . . you can see how the mechanically more robust
> > 3A diodes lend themselves to the task.
> >
> > ANY diode you can find will work electrically . . .
> > chose for convenience of application.
>
>Sorry to bring this back up, but the vagueness of "ANY diode" has left my
>head spinning as I look at page 468 of the Digikey catalog (Sept-Dec 2002).
>There's a selection of 1N540x diodes (bridge rectifiers?), the variation
>being the "max peak reverse voltage." It ranges from 50V to 1000V. Can I
>assume that 50V is sufficient? Is this voltage what you meant by "rated for
>15v"? They all cost the same (32 cents), but does "going big" equate to
>being conservative?
>
>Or should I really just throw a dart at the page and choose one that way?
>8-)
>
>I have no clue what any of this means (I am no electrical engineer!), so any
>light you can shed is much appreciated.
The very best way to get confused is pull down a catalog with
too many choices. Go to Radio Shack and ask for a "3A diode".
They only stock three numbers: 276-1141, 50-volt; 276-1143,
200-volt; and 276-1144, 400-volt and any of them will work
fine. Two in a blister pack for about $1.25
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
> I would of course defer to Bob Nuckolls on this, BUT I've always
>accepted that a diode needs about three times the Reverse Voltage Rating
>that it protects. That's in radio work where one seldom encounters excessive
>voltage leaps as in aircraft. So, unless corrected, I'll be assuming the 3X
>rule when choosing diodes.
>Ferg
>Europa A064
the 3x rating comes from applications where two diodes
are used as a full wave rectifier downstream of a center-tapped
secondary. Peak-inverse is 1.5 x RMS and the full-wave center-tap
configuration doubles that stress to 3x. A full wave bridge rectifier
is pretty happy at only 1.5 x RMS.
In our applications, you can't buy a diode rated at less than
50v which is indeed 3x that of 14v system but if you COULD
find a 20v diode, it would be fine too. De-rating for
ac sine-wave doesn't apply here.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Stick It-Your-Ear Headsets |
Aviation Consumer recently reviewed the Panther and the Auri-Comm by
Quiet Technologies
http://www.quiettechnologies.com
The Auri-Comm differs from the Panther in that it uses expanding foam
inserts ( like industrial ear defenders ) instead of custom molded earpieces,
and uses an ultralight boom mike and stereo earpieces instead of the
mono earpiece and intra-canal mike of the Panther. It's also cheaper
when the cost of the custom molding is included.
Aviation Consumer preferred the Auri-Comm over the Panther for several
reasons:
0. quieter, less fussy fitting
1. better sound quality, both transmit and receive
2. more comfortable
3. more rugged
4. less sensitive to cord microphonics ( move the cord around and the
sound of the movement is transferred directly to your ear ), the seal is
not broken when you eat or move you jaw, and the microphone does
not pick up body noises like the Panther.
I've tried the Quiettechnologies product and agree with Aviation Consumer's
opinion. I have not tried the Panther, but I have used custom molded earplugs
for industrial noise protection, and have found similar wearability problems with
"hard"
plugs. I prefer expanding foam plugs, and tests have shown them to be the
best at quieting (even better than phones). The problem is that many people
can't wear earplugs because of the annoyance factor.
An interesting factoid - Quiettechnologies claims that their overall noise reduction
is equal to or superior than most ANR headsets, and in general, they're right.
I
compared them to the much-vaunted Telex 50-D and found this to be true. On the
other hand,
the new Lightspeed 30G offers better low frequency noise attenuation - where it
counts.
If you need a lightweight headset, and can stand earplugs, try the
Quiet Technologies product. Granted, the boom might droop during really extreme
high-G maneuvers...
If you want some enlightening reading on the subject, try ANR 101 and 201 on Lightspeed's
website
http://www.anrheadsets
or the E.A.R. corporation's white paper sessions on industrial hearing protection,
ANR appropriateness, and limits to noise attenuation by plugs, headsets, or helmets:
http://www.aearo.com/html/industrial/tech01.asp#anr
Shaun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse Block Mounting and Diode Bridge Rectifier |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>John Crate (john.crate(at)jus.gov.on.ca) on Monday, May 26, 2003 at 12:49:04
>
>Monday, May 26, 2003
>
>John Crate
>
>,
>Email: john.crate(at)jus.gov.on.ca
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob
>
>A couple of questions. Is there a problem suspending the fuse blocks
>upside down under the panel. My plan was to mount them on a platform with
>one end hinged to the panel and the other end fastened to the forward
>subpanel with zus fastener. This fill allow me to let them them swing
>formard for access if needed. Will the wires still be secure with the
>faston terminals hanging down?
Sure . . .
>I need to order a D25 Diode assembly. I ordered a bunch of parts from
>B&C, but they were unable to supply the diode. Do I order it directly
>from you?
No, I don't sell parts any more. You can use a Radio Shack
276-1185 . . .
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
I am using a Z-14 wire schematic and have a couple of questions:
Is there any scenario where a failure on one bus would require you to turn
off the battery for that bus, but not be able to use the crossfeed contactor
to power important items on that bus?
For example, I have a nav/com on each of the two bus's. The audio panel and
transponder is on the Aux Bus. If the Aux bus fails and it switched off, is
there any situation that would prohibit me from using power from the Main
bus through the crossfeed contactor? Is this something I need to worry
about?
Second Question:
How low can the voltage go, when on battery power only, before you expect to
see instrements stop working?
- Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VERY confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors |
Thanks much for the response and explanation of this stuff (and also for the
response on the diodes).
Question...have you ever used a miniature 5-pin DIN connector in an aircraft
application? I was thinking it would be ideal as a Ray Allen trim servo
5-wire connector, but I bailed on the idea because of the length of the
connector and the lack of a "detent" -- and my being generally unsure about
the connector's durability in a high-vibration, possibly high-moisture
setting.
Just curious if you'd give a thumbs up or down on it.
Thanks again,
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VERY confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok
connectors
>
> >
> >I'm sitting here looking at the Digikey & Mouser catalogs, and I'm
totally
> >confused about AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors. There are Commercial,
Universal,
> >and Universal II. Each one seems to use a mutually exclusive pin/socket
> >type.
> >
> >Then...ok, let's say I've got 22 AWG wire that needs to be connected.
I'm
> >looking at the contacts selection and there are "30-22AWG" and "24-18AWG"
> >ranges. Then there are brass, brass gold, brass pre-tin, phosphor
bronze,
> >etc.
> >
> >Then there's what Terminal Town sells, and who knows what that stuff is.
> >
> >I've looked on a zillion aircraft builder web sites and sure, everybody
says
> >to use Mate-N-Lok connectors. Ok, would if I could...nobody spells out
the
> >specific parts!
>
> For wires up to and including 20AWG, I'd go for d-subs. MUCH
> better connectors, easier to work with and more compact to boot.
>
> >SHEEEEESH.
> >
> >Can somebody give me a CLEAR answer about which connectors are ideal for
> >free-hanging applications in aircraft?
> >
> >How about the required tools? Since these catalogs seem to sell
different
> >crimpers for different style connector contacts (yes, the crimper part #s
> >are *different*), I can't tell what's what.
> >
> >Is the BCT-1 a crimp-all-end-all tool?
>
> I've found that it works on every open barrel pin I've tried it on
> including the full range mate-n-lock, waldom/molex, and d-subs . . .
> but I used it perhaps once every two years. I seldom design open barrel
> pins into my products and use the tool mostly to service an existing
> connector.
>
> If you need just one or two, consider the radio shack 274-224 thru
> 274-242 connectors. They come in sets with appropriate pins. They
> can be installed with the BCT-1. They are offered in 2 to 12 wires
> per connector. The pins are size in the wire-grip for larger wires
> like 14-18 . . . but you can dike the tabs down to make them suited
> to the smaller wires.
>
> What you're trying to do is get a joint that looks like figure
> 5 in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
>
> The tabs for 20 and 20AWG wire are quite short.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>I am using a Z-14 wire schematic and have a couple of questions:
>
>Is there any scenario where a failure on one bus would require you to turn
>off the battery for that bus, but not be able to use the crossfeed contactor
>to power important items on that bus?
the crossfeed contactor will energize from either bus. Note the
pair of diodes that feed the (+) end of contactor coil from
opposite busses.
>For example, I have a nav/com on each of the two bus's. The audio panel and
>transponder is on the Aux Bus. If the Aux bus fails and it switched off, is
>there any situation that would prohibit me from using power from the Main
>bus through the crossfeed contactor? Is this something I need to worry
>about?
>
>Second Question:
>How low can the voltage go, when on battery power only, before you expect to
>see instrements stop working?
DO-160 calls for useful operation down to 9v, a battery is 95%
used up at 10.5 volts so if you're battery only, the 9v
figure is somewhat meaningless.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DIN connectors? |
>
>Thanks much for the response and explanation of this stuff (and also for the
>response on the diodes).
>
>Question...have you ever used a miniature 5-pin DIN connector in an aircraft
>application? I was thinking it would be ideal as a Ray Allen trim servo
>5-wire connector, but I bailed on the idea because of the length of the
>connector and the lack of a "detent" -- and my being generally unsure about
>the connector's durability in a high-vibration, possibly high-moisture
>setting.
I considered the miniature DIN connectors when I crafted
the comic book at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
They're probably okay but much more difficult for the
neophyte solder slinger to get a good installation
and they're not a great deal smaller than the d-sub
illustrated. D-subs are my personal favorites . .
I try to make that connector work first before dragging
out catalogs for alternatives.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | XPDR antenna question |
Hi Bob and all,
This is an installation question.
I'm intending to install the transponder antenna in the fiber glass fairing
below the tail.
The ground plane is to be an aluminum cross, with the lateral arms bent to
follow the fairing skin, and the antenna in the middle.
Are there any drawbacks with this idea ?
I posted some picture of the cardboard model at :
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1543.JPG
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1544.JPG
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1545.JPG
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1546.JPG
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RFI and Grounds... Long |
Canyon wrote:
>1. Is there any such thing as a short circuit?
Gone longer than I thought I'd be this weekend. Getting back to the
perspective I had hoped to impart here, the short answer is it depends
on how short it needs to be. If you are dealing in power circuits it
may not be critical to performance that a connection be perfect and
pure. Therefore, sometimes just connecting to the right general ground
potential can be good enough.
OTOH, if you're dealing with small signals, processing millivolts to
nanovolts or concerned with measuring or detecting microamps to
picoamps, generally speaking, there ain't no such thing as a short
circuit. What you may need is as good a connection to a common point
as you can figure out how to build and good separation of various
return currents. How often does this happen with aircraft? Not often
enough to be fearful of it, but I'd bet often enough to require one to
be attentive to detail.
Example areas in which to be attentive to detail would be with such
things as the nav/com and other avionics. You're not likely to get in
trouble with the battery mains, alternator circuits and such if you
don't mix the return paths of the small signal devices in with these
power circuit returns. Ideally you want any current flowing directly
to sensitive devices to flow back on the return line as directly to the
power source as possible without intervening currents flowing through
that same return path from other devices. In fact, this ideal is the
basis for GFI devices which have saved many lives in plain old
residential power environments.
Bob offers a great solution for many with the idea of feeding power
through the firewall on a bolt, with avionics returns on the cockpit
side and power stuff on the firewall side for the heavier
currents. This tends to sort potential errors toward minimum effect.
>2. Can two wires occupying the same physical space and carrying equal
>currents of opposite polarity radiate energy externally?
No, and thinking about that is helpful. If you could accomplish this,
then the circuit would neither gather nor emit contaminating external
signals. Since it's not physically possible, what's the next best
thing? The simple idea is the inspiration for two practical near
perfect solutions. First, you can twist two wires evenly with regular,
frequent twists and come reasonably close to approximating the two
wires occupying the same physical space. To the extent that it's not
perfect, it will perform imperfectly. But, for most purposes, this is
very effective in the real world as both sides of the circuit are
exposed in essentially the same phase and magnitude to both magnetic
and electrostatic external signals and the opposite currents in the
pair cancel one another. As the wavelengths of AC signals become
shorter, the effectiveness is reduced.
But there is another way to emulate what we can't really construct --
coax is also inspired by the same simple idea and offers a number of
advantages for RF circuits, including our usual VHF and higher
frequency signals. There exists even triax and quadrax versions of the
same space emulation solutions, similar to the coax for use in
specialized areas.
So when thinking about how to hook things up for low noise, remember
two things:
1: Keep small signal circuits (i.e., RF=typical 1uv or less) paired as
close as possible to the ideal of both wires exposed the same way and
in the same amount and keep exposure minimized.
2. Always try to return the signal current offered by any avionics
(signal) device as directly to the source return as is possible without
other intervening currents mixed in with that signal.
Almost forgot, shielded twisted pair is often called out in audio and
similar applications. The shield is primarily intended for
electrostatic decoupling of the wire pair. All you really need to do
is hook up one end of that shield to drain off any charge to a proper
source return point.
A whiteboard would be a lot easier for explaining this kind of thing,
but I hope someone finds this useful.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pack" <jpack(at)igs3.com> |
Perhaps I have put the cart before the horse, but I would like to make a
dimmer circuit for my annunciator panel (Which has already been cut into my
panel).
Is anyone able/willing to suggest a scematic for the dimmer circuit? I have
6 LEDs & a single mini switch that can control it.
This is the explanation of how each are proposed to be connected.
Label
Intent
How connected
Main Alt Fail
Warn of Alt Fail
hooked up to the LR3 indicator circuit
Aux Alt Fail
Warn of Alt Fail
hooked up to the LR3 indicator circuit
X-Feed On
Warn of engaged X-feed
Hooked up per Z-14 diagram between posts 5 and 2 on the crossfeed
switch.
Starter On
Warn of stuck starter
connected to the I terminal on the Starter Contactor (S702-1) and
Ground.
Oil Pressure Low
Warn of low oil pressure
connected to the I terminal on the Oil pressure switch (S710-1) and the
Aux Bus Fuse Box.
A/P On
Warn that A/P is engaged (light out, not engaged)
Connected to the Autopilot Control unit power and Ground.
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
There is a neat dimmer kit you might want to look at with 3 channels (three
separate outputs all slaved to a master control) with several other options
described in the June 2003 Custom Planes. The kit is also available from
A&T Labs at
http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/
I have the kit assembled and it looks pretty good - silk screened plated
thru holes on the PC board, etc. The price varies as you only have to pay
for what features you use.
Gary Liming
>
>Perhaps I have put the cart before the horse, but I would like to make a
>dimmer circuit for my annunciator panel (Which has already been cut into my
>panel).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diode failures and "Reliable Systems" |
>
>
>Bob responded "excellently" to David Carter's story about a diode failure,
>then asked the question at the end:
>
> > Going back to the 2-cent diode bringing down $millions$ worth of
>equipment. How is this anecdote relevant to how a $5 diode
> > is bolted to your airplane?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>David replies: The diode in Z13 that passes Main bus power to E-bus isn't
>relevant to the million dollar anecdote - and poses zero threat to my
>airplane.
>
>Since I sent that e-mail, I've engaged my brain a bit more tightly (learning
>how to "think like an electron"?) and realized that the switch I proposed -
>paralleling around the "failable" diode - "in case it failed" (open), added
>NOTHING - it simply duplicated the existing "E-bus switch" in Z-13 - it
>would pass power from main bus to e-bus.
> - If that diode opened, killing my e-bus radios, etc, I didn't need
>the proposed switch - I only needed to close the "E-bus switch" shown in
>Z-13 to power the E-bus from the other side (left side) of the Main Battery
>Contactor.
>
>I apologize for being a bit slow at this stuff. It's getting clearer as I
>"exercise" my rusty, dusty electron knowledge. Seems like I had "tunnel
>vision" on a particular part of the schematic, started "what if'ing", and
>lost sight of the "big picture".
Not a problem my friend. Please don't succumb to some notion
that an apology is in order. I hope that reasons most
people have for belonging to this list include giving
and receiving assistance in filtering chaff from good
stuff. We are surrounded by uncountable sources of unfounded,
illogical information.
We're all at various stages of practice in the art of
organizing our collective basket of simple-ideas into
the most efficient designs. May I suggest no useful purpose
is served to beat yourself up for loosing sight of
simple-ideas in the chaff-storm . . . it happens
to all of us. I am certain that my teachers have no
feelings of insult nor do they expect any regrets on my
part when I benefit from their guiding beams-of-light in
the storm.
For myself, it's a been a good day when I hit the sack
with some new simple-idea in mind that adds to my ability
to serve the folks who reward me for my labors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
Could you be more specific in exactly what kit that is you got from A&T
Labs? I have checked their web site and don't find anything that looks like
it is a dimmer control. Thanks.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Canopy of Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Liming" <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dimmer circuit
>
>
> There is a neat dimmer kit you might want to look at with 3 channels
(three
> separate outputs all slaved to a master control) with several other
options
> described in the June 2003 Custom Planes. The kit is also available from
> A&T Labs at
> http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/
>
> I have the kit assembled and it looks pretty good - silk screened plated
> thru holes on the PC board, etc. The price varies as you only have to pay
> for what features you use.
>
> Gary Liming
>
> >
> >Perhaps I have put the cart before the horse, but I would like to make a
> >dimmer circuit for my annunciator panel (Which has already been cut into
my
> >panel).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>This is an installation question.
>I'm intending to install the transponder antenna in the fiber glass fairing
>below the tail.
>The ground plane is to be an aluminum cross, with the lateral arms bent to
>follow the fairing skin, and the antenna in the middle.
>Are there any drawbacks with this idea ?
>
>I posted some picture of the cardboard model at :
>
>
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1543.JPG
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1544.JPG
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1545.JPG
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1546.JPG
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gilles
When the ground plane cannot be "flat" it is
better that departures from flatness deflect
away from the antenna, not toward it. Also,
if you can keep the radials more disk-like,
your radiation pattern will be more uniform.
I would start with a round ground plane
and then bend some flanges in the disk
to conform to inside surfaces for attachment
to the airframe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
Try this link.
http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/K11_Dimmer/index.htm
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dimmer circuit
Could you be more specific in exactly what kit that is you got from A&T
Labs? I have checked their web site and don't find anything that looks
like
it is a dimmer control. Thanks.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Canopy of Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Liming" <gary(at)liming.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dimmer circuit
>
>
> There is a neat dimmer kit you might want to look at with 3 channels
(three
> separate outputs all slaved to a master control) with several other
options
> described in the June 2003 Custom Planes. The kit is also available
from
> A&T Labs at
> http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/
>
> I have the kit assembled and it looks pretty good - silk screened
plated
> thru holes on the PC board, etc. The price varies as you only have to
pay
> for what features you use.
>
> Gary Liming
>
> >
> >Perhaps I have put the cart before the horse, but I would like to
make a
> >dimmer circuit for my annunciator panel (Which has already been cut
into
my
> >panel).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KA-25 hummmmmmmmmm . . . |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Kelly Dossett (Kelly.Dossett(at)wnco.com) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 14:36:55
>
>Tuesday, May 27, 2003
>
>Kelly Dossett
>
>,
>Email: Kelly.Dossett(at)wnco.com
>Comments/Questions: Dear Bob -
>I beleive I am lucky to have found your website! Help!
>
> From a quick review, I was looking for a simple trouble-shooting
> guide/advise you may have put together.
>
>As you guessed, I have a electrical problem on my airplane!
>
>I have a 1974 Grumman AA-5 "Traveler". Yesterday (27 May 2003) while
>flying in the local area, a massive/load electrical "Hummmmmmm" developed.
>This "hum" is noted over the speaker, as well as through my headsets/intercom.
>
>Upon landing and shutdown, I performed some minor troubleshooting. The
>"hum" is even noted, just as soon as I flip-on the Master-Switch!
>avionics Master-Switch is still in the OFF position) I mean to tell you,
>this "hum" is very loud. (the sound is like an electric motor is binding)
>
>Today, 24 hours later, I have determined, for what it is worth, that if I
>un-plug my KA-25 (King Isolation Amp.) the loud "hum" will cease.
>
>I know you must be "bombarded" with these types of questions. However, if
>you might be able to offer ANY ADVISE on how I might be able to better
>troubleshoot this problem, I would be so very grateful.
>
>In layman's terms, what function does the KA-25 serve?
>Could this KA-25 unit be my problem?
>
>Or, do you suspect my problem is elsewhere?
>
>My many, many thanks!
>
>Mr. Kelly Dossett
>N7167L @ KDTO - Denton Muni
>(Just north of Dallas, Texas)
The KA-25 is an audio isolation amplifier that combines
head-set only outputs from multiple receivers to
a single headset feed . . . it also mounts an audio
power amplifier to drive the cabin speaker.
The audio isolation amplifier may also have an intercom
function. It also may process warning tones from other
systems. This is why it's common practice to wire
the audio system to the main bus so that it will
function with the avionics master switch turned off.
I suspect something has failed in the KA 25 or it's
associated wiring to cause an oscillation (not unlike
the feedback you get on some PA systems with poorly
placed microphones) except this is a totally electronic
phenomenon. You will probably need the assistance
of an avionics technician who is more familiar with
this system.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
> I would start with a round ground plane
> and then bend some flanges in the disk
> to conform to inside surfaces for attachment
> to the airframe.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Thank you for your answer. I'll have another try with a round ground plane.
The reason for bending downward was because the top 4 inches of the fairing
are lined with carbon fiber. Thus the whole setup could be placed below this
conductive limit without bottoming the antenna.
Cheers,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Crimp tool metric an AWG |
Bob and all,
I was able to organize here in Switzerland a crimp tool for thicker wire.
Problem is, the dies supplied with the pliers is metric, I was able to find
a conversion table (thanks to google )
AWG 2 dia 6.54 mm area 33.60 mm2
AWG 6 dia 4.11 mm area 13.30 mm2
The dies I have say 6/10/16/25/35 I believe this is mm2
exactly it says something like 12 KP Cu 25 where the KP seems to be the
brand small K lower rear leg extend downwards in something like a half
circle.
I would prefer to crimp, can I use the 10 die for AWG 6 and the 35 for AWG
2?
Is this safe?
Any help very much appreciated!
Many thanks
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> > I would start with a round ground plane
> > and then bend some flanges in the disk
> > to conform to inside surfaces for attachment
> > to the airframe.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>
>Thank you for your answer. I'll have another try with a round ground plane.
>The reason for bending downward was because the top 4 inches of the fairing
>are lined with carbon fiber. Thus the whole setup could be placed below this
>conductive limit without bottoming the antenna.
Fine, the bent tabs of the ground plane can couple to the
carbon fiber . . . this is good. Primary goal is to
give the antenna best possible 360 degree line of sight
to the horizon.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
>
> Fine, the bent tabs of the ground plane can couple to the
> carbon fiber . . . this is good. Primary goal is to
> give the antenna best possible 360 degree line of sight
> to the horizon.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
It's nice to get instant advice.
Does it look better now ?
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1550.JPG
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1554.JPG
http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1555.JPG
Thanks a lot,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> >
> > Fine, the bent tabs of the ground plane can couple to the
> > carbon fiber . . . this is good. Primary goal is to
> > give the antenna best possible 360 degree line of sight
> > to the horizon.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>It's nice to get instant advice.
>
>Does it look better now ?
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1550.JPG
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1554.JPG
>http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1555.JPG
That's it!
>Thanks a lot,
You're most welcome . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimp tool metric an AWG |
>
>
>Bob and all,
>
>I was able to organize here in Switzerland a crimp tool for thicker wire.
>Problem is, the dies supplied with the pliers is metric, I was able to find
>a conversion table (thanks to google )
>
>AWG 2 dia 6.54 mm area 33.60 mm2
>AWG 6 dia 4.11 mm area 13.30 mm2
>
>The dies I have say 6/10/16/25/35 I believe this is mm2
>
>exactly it says something like 12 KP Cu 25 where the KP seems to be the
>brand small K lower rear leg extend downwards in something like a half
>circle.
>
>I would prefer to crimp, can I use the 10 die for AWG 6 and the 35 for AWG
>2?
>
>Is this safe?
>
>Any help very much appreciated!
What you have hypothesized about the die sizes
seems reasonable. Give it a try. Saw the test terminal
in two centered on the wire grip. Sand the sawed
end with increasingly finer sand paper until you can
distinctly see individual strands (areas of bright
copper surrounded by very thin lines of tin plating).
The crimp should be totally free of visible voids . . .
i.e. the terminal and wire have become one piece of
metal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
Hi Jim-
My annunciator panel is not fed with a dimmer, but my panel lights are.
(If you have ACAD type stuff, I can send you a copy, if interested)
I put one of these little PWM controllers together to use as a panel
dimmer and it actually works! It worked great as a motor speed
controller (you get a little motor with the kit) and it's rated for 10A,
but I removed the motor F/R switch and bought a better quality pot to
remote mount on the panel. The one with the kit is OK, just a little
twitchy as you change the output. I've had a project board full of LEDs
running off it for about a month total, so I suppose it should hold up OK.
see: http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=4057+MD
Sixteen bux. I ordered this thing and it arrived as a bunch of parts in
a ziplock, so I got to do a little soldering, which was a great
confidence builder. They've got a lot of other neat stuff- bought a
bunch of LEDs etc, low prices & no, I'm not affiliated!
From The PossumWorks
Mark
Jim Pack wrote:
>
> Perhaps I have put the cart before the horse, but I would like to make a
> dimmer circuit for my annunciator panel (Which has already been cut into my
> panel).
>
>
> Is anyone able/willing to suggest a scematic for the dimmer circuit? I have
> 6 LEDs & a single mini switch that can control it.
>
>
> This is the explanation of how each are proposed to be connected.
>
>
> Label
> Intent
> How connected
>
> Main Alt Fail
> Warn of Alt Fail
> hooked up to the LR3 indicator circuit
>
> Aux Alt Fail
> Warn of Alt Fail
> hooked up to the LR3 indicator circuit
>
> X-Feed On
> Warn of engaged X-feed
> Hooked up per Z-14 diagram between posts 5 and 2 on the crossfeed
> switch.
>
> Starter On
> Warn of stuck starter
> connected to the I terminal on the Starter Contactor (S702-1) and
> Ground.
>
> Oil Pressure Low
> Warn of low oil pressure
> connected to the I terminal on the Oil pressure switch (S710-1) and the
> Aux Bus Fuse Box.
>
> A/P On
> Warn that A/P is engaged (light out, not engaged)
> Connected to the Autopilot Control unit power and Ground.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair Radio-Xpdr Wire Harness |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fw: Electric Bob - Microair Radio-Xpdr Wire
>Harness
I can ship tomorrow morning. I have the following
data from your last order:
Rick Fogerson
7558 W. Hathaway Ct
Boise, ID 83703
Country: USA
Phone: 208-853-0436
Email: rickf(at)velocitus.net
The visa you used ended in -0629 . . . do
you want to use this same card?
VISA/Mastercard: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-0629
Expiry: 07/04
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
> >
> >Does it look better now ?
> >http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1550.JPG
> >http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1554.JPG
> >http://gilles.thesee.free.fr/temp/DSCF1555.JPG
>
> That's it!
>
Bob,
Thanks once more for the knowledge you share with us, and the swiftness of
your answers.
Regards,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XPDR antenna question |
> "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>> RF goes around corners . . . a radial that is physically
>> 1/4 wave length over all still has a low impedance node
>> at the base of the antenna if some portion of the end
>> takes a 90 degree turn.
>>
>> "Ground plane" means that you're looking for a zero-ohms
>> connection to free space at the end of the transmission
>> line for the coax shield connection. If the base impedance
>> of a 1/4 wave is on the order of 30 ohms, then 4 radials
>> paralleled gives you a 'ground' impedance of about 7 ohms,
>> 10 radials would be 3 ohms, etc. One can imagine that
>> a disk is made of an infinite number of radials in parallel
>> for an ideal 'ground' impedance approaching zero ohms.
>>
>> Obviously simplistic, there are some additional effects that
>> keep us from getting zero but for all practical purposes,
>> we can get quite close . . . the overall shape of those 1/4 wave
>> radials is not terribly critical. It's length from base of antenna
>> to the edge irrespective of shape . . . that's the "magic" of
>> a circular ground plane as opposed to a square one . . . square
>> gets you 4 radials at the right length and a bunch of others
>> too long. Circular makes them all the same length.
>
>I *think* square - with the dimention a touch undersize - gets you 8
>radials the right length, and an infinite number a little long or a little
>short. A hexagon would get you 12 accurate radials, etc.
Yup, that's right too . . .
>If your diameter is just right, then yes, you have an infinte number of
>accurate radials. But what exactly is that diameter? And if you're off
>by (say) .125" on a circular ground plane, you have NO accurate
>radials. In that case would you be better off with a square or hexagonal one?
When you see a vertical antenna with ground plane radials
under it perched on top of some tower or building, it's
not uncommon to have just 4 radials . . . and as mentioned
above, this gives you a "ground impedance" about 1/4th that
of the antenna . . . adding more "perfect" radials has a
diminishing return on the effort . . . adding 4 more radials
only improves on the original 4 by a few percent. Doubling
the number again gives you the same percentage improvement.
From a power transfer perspective, the guy at the other end
would not perceive any improvement in your signal by jumping
from 4 to an infinite number of radials.
Radiation pattern is also affected by ground plane
area and it's shape. You often see radials "drooped"
downward. This has two beneficial effects. It raises
the matching impedance of the antenna to more nearly
equal 50-ohm coax and lowers the radiation angle
from approx 45 degrees to some pattern more nearly
on the horizon.
>Or do I misunderstand - is the 1/4 wave length the minimum, or the optimum?
It's "optimum" . . . for a 1/4 wave radial is "tuned" to
the frequency of interest. You can get similar performance
with 3/4 or any other odd multiples of quarter wave . . and
once you're out more than a wavelength or two, you have
what's called an "infinite ground plane" wherein actual
size variations have no measurable effect on antenna
characteristics.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | The loss of a horseshoe nail |
Bob,
Off the topic - somewhat.
I just couldn't stop sending this - your analogy of the lost
horseshoe nail and designing a three-legged horse which could fight is a
luxurious and creative one of the best. I don't think we'll ever forget the
mental corridor we'll travel in future.....................
A milestone.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello all,
This may be slightly off topic but there may be others with a similar
nagging query...
I am collecting instruments and avionics as I construct my RV-8 in an
effort to spread the costs over time and to take advantage of "deals" as
I come across them.
Does anyone have experience with the King KNS-80? This is an all in one
unit that incorporates VOR/LOC/GS/DME in one box. From a panel space
and installation standpoint it has advantages. From a reliability
standpoint it would seem to be a single point failure item.
Narco has a similar unit (122 D) with VOR/LOC/GS.
OBS/LOC/GS indicators: Is there a standard I/O from receiver to
indicator or does each manufacturer have their own signal/data I/O? If
they are manufacturer specific is each manufacturer consistent or does
each manufacturer have variants within their own product lines? i.e.
can I use a Sperry indicator with a King receiver?
Antennas...
I have followed the discussions on antennas and have decided to go with
the Sportcraft VOR/COM wingtip antenna.
Can this also be used for the Localizer? I have a Marker Beacon and
Transponder antenna. Will I need a separate Glide Slope antenna?
I would like to keep the airframe clean i.e. no antennas hanging
everywhere. If a separate GS antenna is required can it be mounted
inside the fiberglass wingtip?
I realize I have posted questions that my require lengthy answers...
This is my primary source for aircraft/avionics expertise, and a good
one it is! Thanks!
Chris Stone
RV-8 - wings
Slowly drying out in Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The loss of a horseshoe nail |
>
>Bob,
> Off the topic - somewhat.
> I just couldn't stop sending this - your analogy of the lost
>horseshoe nail and designing a three-legged horse which could fight is a
>luxurious and creative one of the best. I don't think we'll ever forget the
>mental corridor we'll travel in future.....................
> A milestone.
Thank you for your kind words sir . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | My Fuel Gauge Design and Linearizing |
Here's the plan: I have every faith in fuel flow rate but realize the need for
fuel gauges. I like the elegance of the capacitive sensors but not their complexity.
So how about this--
Put ten tiny tiny tiny 0805 size PTC thermistors on a flex circuit with a Gortex
sleeve over it. Arrange these logarithmically so that they can be read-out by
a 10-led bar graph. Stuff it through a 1/4" rivnut installed in each tank. On
the instrument panel, 10 leds100%, 9 leds70.7%, 8 leds50%, 7 leds35.4%, 6 leds+
25%, 5 leds17.7%, 4 leds12.5%, 3 leds8.8%, 2 leds6.2%, 1 led4.4%. Use an LM3915
display driver. Greater precision as the fuel is depleted. This makes enormous
sense, since no one cares how much they have when they are full of fuel.
This also makes up for using the bar graph.
Now where does the FAA required "Red radial line marking zero" go? I just don't
know.
PS- There is one Powerlink 1280 Amp solid state starter battery contactor flying
(on a dual battery split system). Seems to be working perfectly. I am making
a new run of an updated and improved design. This is still in a test phase, but
versions of the new design will be for sale assuming all goes well in the testing.
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
- James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
- Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator noise on Grumman |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Fred Hardy (frederick.a.hardy(at)boeing.com) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 at
>11:14:57
>
>Wednesday, May 28, 2003
>
>Fred Hardy
>
>,
>Email: frederick.a.hardy(at)boeing.com
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob, My '78 Grumman Tiger has a loud whine coming
>from the alternator through the headsets. I had the alternator checked at
>annual (4/03)and the IA stated the brushes were about 50% worn. Also a new
>filter was installed in 2002. The unit charges the battery without any
>problems. The alternater is original equipment (25 years/1200
>hours). I've been reading up on this and it seems that I have a bad
>diode(s). Should I have the unit totally rebuilt or just have the diodes
>replaced?
You need to load test the alternator. You can do this with
a battery tester before you take it off the airplane.
Put a voltmeter on the bus. With engine running at or
near 2000 rpm, bring alternator on and increase load on
battery up to the rating of the alternator. If you can
get more than 1/2 or 2/3rds rating of alternator without
drooping the bus to less than 13.0 volts, then your diodes
are okay.
Did this problem just crop up? Was it after the annual?
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 09:49 AM, Chris Stone wrote:
> s anyone have experience with the King KNS-80? This is an all in one
> unit that incorporates VOR/LOC/GS/DME in one box. From a panel space
> and installation standpoint it has advantages. From a reliability
> standpoint it would seem to be a single point failure item.
> Narco has a similar unit (122 D) with VOR/LOC/GS.
I've got over 700 hours behind one. Easy to use, dead reliable.
Absolute state of the art...when Jimmy Carter was president. I
recently talked to the new owner of my old Navion, and the unit still
works flawlessly, but he'sthinking about upgrading.
It is, however, an RNAV. Even a cheap GPS sort of makes the RNAV/DME
redundant and has more utility.
If it's the cheapest way you can get VOR/GS to shoot ILS approaches,
and it's a smoking deal, I'd go for it.
If you are VFR and just want to navigate, I think the biggest bang for
the buck is a Northstar M-1 Loran. About a hundred bucks on e-bay and
works great.
JFF
P.S.
It occurs to me that my old Navion is near you, in Washington State.
You might look up the registration for 2512T and see if he is ready to
make the change.
JFF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin and Marlys Cocozzoli" <mcocozzoli(at)satx.rr.com> |
Good Evening,
I'm having trouble with radio interference in a Glasair III homebuilt I just
finished and need some advice on what to look for. I'm not versed in
avionics and there's no avionics shop at my airport.
I have a UPSAT SL-30 Nav/Comm and SL-15 Audio Panel. The comm radio works
fine in ground tests and with the engine running at low RPM I am both
transmitting and receiving loud and clear. The problem surfaces when I
increase the throttle to take off power. At approximately 2000 RPM my
headset fills with static and I hear nothing but this static until I reduce
RPM. Then everything's normal again.
I was told by the kit maker that it may be the alternator. I pulled the
alternator field circuit breaker but this had no effect. I would like to
know what else I should look for as I have no idea why the radio would work
fine until I advance the throttle. Tower states their not hearing the
static so it's purely internal.
Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
Sincerely,
Kevin Cocozzoli
210-666-6713
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Are you very familiar with the **digital** setting of the squelch and other
items on radio (I and friends have the SL-40). There are certain
incantations spelled out in the manual that once done make a lot of sense
but when you read the first time may seem a little strange.
Suggestion:
Take a pilot friend up for a flight and while one of you is flying the
plane, the other take the manual and make adjustments with the headsets that
you are normally going to use.
Of course you could do this on the ground but the noise will be slightly
differnt and you will be running your engine for some time at 2000 RPM+
without the benefit of cooling and scenery.
Just a thought.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
> and Marlys Cocozzoli
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:12 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RFI
>
>
> Cocozzoli"
>
> Good Evening,
>
> I'm having trouble with radio interference in a Glasair III
> homebuilt I just
> finished and need some advice on what to look for. I'm not versed in
> avionics and there's no avionics shop at my airport.
>
> I have a UPSAT SL-30 Nav/Comm and SL-15 Audio Panel. The comm radio works
> fine in ground tests and with the engine running at low RPM I am both
> transmitting and receiving loud and clear. The problem surfaces when I
> increase the throttle to take off power. At approximately 2000 RPM my
> headset fills with static and I hear nothing but this static
> until I reduce
> RPM. Then everything's normal again.
>
> I was told by the kit maker that it may be the alternator. I pulled the
> alternator field circuit breaker but this had no effect. I would like to
> know what else I should look for as I have no idea why the radio
> would work
> fine until I advance the throttle. Tower states their not hearing the
> static so it's purely internal.
>
> Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kevin Cocozzoli
> 210-666-6713
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin and Marlys Cocozzoli" <mcocozzoli(at)satx.rr.com> |
Thanks James, I'll look into the manual. However, since this static starts
at 2000 RPM, I obviously can't fly the plane until I get this worked out on
the ground. I can't hear anything but static! But I'll check the
manual...I should've thought of that.
Thanks,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RFI
Are you very familiar with the **digital** setting of the squelch and other
items on radio (I and friends have the SL-40). There are certain
incantations spelled out in the manual that once done make a lot of sense
but when you read the first time may seem a little strange.
Suggestion:
Take a pilot friend up for a flight and while one of you is flying the
plane, the other take the manual and make adjustments with the headsets that
you are normally going to use.
Of course you could do this on the ground but the noise will be slightly
differnt and you will be running your engine for some time at 2000 RPM+
without the benefit of cooling and scenery.
Just a thought.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
> and Marlys Cocozzoli
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:12 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RFI
>
>
> Cocozzoli"
>
> Good Evening,
>
> I'm having trouble with radio interference in a Glasair III
> homebuilt I just
> finished and need some advice on what to look for. I'm not versed in
> avionics and there's no avionics shop at my airport.
>
> I have a UPSAT SL-30 Nav/Comm and SL-15 Audio Panel. The comm radio works
> fine in ground tests and with the engine running at low RPM I am both
> transmitting and receiving loud and clear. The problem surfaces when I
> increase the throttle to take off power. At approximately 2000 RPM my
> headset fills with static and I hear nothing but this static
> until I reduce
> RPM. Then everything's normal again.
>
> I was told by the kit maker that it may be the alternator. I pulled the
> alternator field circuit breaker but this had no effect. I would like to
> know what else I should look for as I have no idea why the radio
> would work
> fine until I advance the throttle. Tower states their not hearing the
> static so it's purely internal.
>
> Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kevin Cocozzoli
> 210-666-6713
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Well, give it a try on the ground with another pilot rev'ing the plane up.
Read up and make some minor adjustments BEFORE you start the engine so you
have a feel for the process and how to get to the various settings.
There are a lot of things you can adjust.
Good luck.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
> and Marlys Cocozzoli
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 2:22 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RFI
>
>
> Cocozzoli"
>
> Thanks James, I'll look into the manual. However, since this
> static starts
> at 2000 RPM, I obviously can't fly the plane until I get this
> worked out on
> the ground. I can't hear anything but static! But I'll check the
> manual...I should've thought of that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RFI
>
>
>
>
> Are you very familiar with the **digital** setting of the squelch
> and other
> items on radio (I and friends have the SL-40). There are certain
> incantations spelled out in the manual that once done make a lot of sense
> but when you read the first time may seem a little strange.
>
> Suggestion:
>
> Take a pilot friend up for a flight and while one of you is flying the
> plane, the other take the manual and make adjustments with the
> headsets that
> you are normally going to use.
>
> Of course you could do this on the ground but the noise will be slightly
> differnt and you will be running your engine for some time at 2000 RPM+
> without the benefit of cooling and scenery.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
> > and Marlys Cocozzoli
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:12 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: RFI
> >
> >
> > Cocozzoli"
> >
> > Good Evening,
> >
> > I'm having trouble with radio interference in a Glasair III
> > homebuilt I just
> > finished and need some advice on what to look for. I'm not versed in
> > avionics and there's no avionics shop at my airport.
> >
> > I have a UPSAT SL-30 Nav/Comm and SL-15 Audio Panel. The comm
> radio works
> > fine in ground tests and with the engine running at low RPM I am both
> > transmitting and receiving loud and clear. The problem surfaces when I
> > increase the throttle to take off power. At approximately 2000 RPM my
> > headset fills with static and I hear nothing but this static
> > until I reduce
> > RPM. Then everything's normal again.
> >
> > I was told by the kit maker that it may be the alternator. I pulled the
> > alternator field circuit breaker but this had no effect. I
> would like to
> > know what else I should look for as I have no idea why the radio
> > would work
> > fine until I advance the throttle. Tower states their not hearing the
> > static so it's purely internal.
> >
> > Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Kevin Cocozzoli
> > 210-666-6713
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
I've been following the thread about the optimum ground plane for the transponder.
What is the optimum diameter for a circular ground plane? I'd like to mount
the antenna on a 7" diameter aileron bellcrank access plate on the bottom
of the wing of my Glasair. Others have done this, but I'll figure out something
else if you think I should.
Regards,
Troy Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
Troy,
Here's what Bob said when I asked about this a while ago:
If the ground plane is "small" . . . like less than a wavelength
at frequency of interest, then it works best if "tuned" . . . i.e.
exactly same radius as height of antenna or 5.3" diameter.
Hope this helps.
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Scott" <tscott@c-gate.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
> Bob,
>
> I've been following the thread about the optimum ground plane for the
transponder. What is the optimum diameter for a circular ground plane? I'd
like to mount the antenna on a 7" diameter aileron bellcrank access plate on
the bottom of the wing of my Glasair. Others have done this, but I'll figure
out something else if you think I should.
>
> Regards,
> Troy Scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
Radius of ground plane disk should be at least the height of the transponder
antenna.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Scott" <tscott@c-gate.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ground plane
>
> Bob,
>
> I've been following the thread about the optimum ground plane for the
transponder. What is the optimum diameter for a circular ground plane? I'd
like to mount the antenna on a 7" diameter aileron bellcrank access plate on
the bottom of the wing of my Glasair. Others have done this, but I'll
figure out something else if you think I should.
>
> Regards,
> Troy Scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lmc.cc.mi.us> |
| Subject: | What is that noise anyway? |
Hi Folks,
Just chiming in on the radio headset static that people are commenting on.
I also have a situation where, on idle, there is no noise to speak of. Get
up to cruise rpm and the noise/static is very pronounced. Doesn't matter if
the intercom is on or off...speak into the microphone and loud static accompanies.
I was thinking maybe it was associated with the MicroAir 760, but now we have
other radio owners heard from as well. So just what is the source of that
static? Is there any reference anyone has so I can read about it? Thanks very
much...inquiring minds want to know.
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ANL's, Z14 flexibility, and cigarette lighter receptacles... |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
G'Day Bob,
I have a few questions regarding my 'Z-14' system and general installation:
a) I have ANL 40 current limiters installed for both the B&C SD-20 and 40A alternators
I have installed. Aeroelectric.com states that "the 40 Amp device is suited
for all alternators 40A and below". Your Z-14 diagrams show ANL30's, and
a Matronics Search revealed that "B&C had 30's to go with the SD-20 alternator".."with
the STC'd kits". I'm confused, is my current setup of 2 x ANL40's acceptable?
b) I have the main bus (40A) supplied by 4AWG and the aux bus (20A) supplied by
10AWG. Is this acceptable in a crossfeed condition, or would 4AWG give me greater
flexibility in a SD-20 failure condition? My understanding is that functionally,
the 10AWG is 100% acceptable, but...
c) I have 20AWG supplying a cigarette lighter receptacle straight off a hot battery
bus. In your experience, is 20AWG (with 7.5A) fuse enough for general use
(GPS, small light, small vacuum), or should I increase to 10A? or more perhaps?
I have the IA-C23 handheld nav/comm drawing 1.8A during a transmit, and a
handheld GPS I'm expecting way less.. What are some of these vacuum accessories
drawing?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Wayne Blackler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
How are contactors energized? I had always assumed that almost all of them must
have a switch to Batt+, but I could be wrong, at least one pilot says that most
of them use a switch to ground. What's going on?
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
Eric,
I believe that typically, the master contactor is energized with a switch to ground,
while the starter contactor is switched with + voltage, from the switched
output of the master contactor. This avoids an always hot wire going to the
master switch on the panel.
Regards,
Chris Good
West Bend, WI
RV-6A
--
--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:38:41
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
>
>How are contactors energized? I had always assumed that almost all of them must
have a switch to Batt+, but I could be wrong, at least one pilot says that most
of them use a switch to ground. What's going on?
>
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 09:49 AM, Chris Stone wrote:
> s anyone have experience with the King KNS-80? This is an all in one
> unit that incorporates VOR/LOC/GS/DME in one box. From a panel space
> and installation standpoint it has advantages. From a reliability
> standpoint it would seem to be a single point failure item.
> Narco has a similar unit (122 D) with VOR/LOC/GS.
I've got over 700 hours behind one. Easy to use, dead reliable.
Absolute state of the art...when Jimmy Carter was president. I
recently talked to the new owner of my old Navion, and the unit still
works flawlessly, but he'sthinking about upgrading.
It is, however, an RNAV. Even a cheap GPS sort of makes the RNAV/DME
redundant and has more utility.
If it's the cheapest way you can get VOR/GS to shoot ILS approaches,
and it's a smoking deal, I'd go for it.
If you are VFR and just want to navigate, I think the biggest bang for
the buck is a Northstar M-1 Loran. About a hundred bucks on e-bay and
works great.
JFF
P.S.
It occurs to me that my old Navion is near you, in Washington State.
You might look up the registration for 2512T and see if he is ready to
make the change.
JFF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
To Chris Stone,
I bought a KNS80 for my project Cardinal and am about to put it in, I got a
nice yellow tagged unit in great shape for well less that a grand, I've seen
them on ebay go from a few hundred dollars (ratty looking) to about $900 real
nice looking. Most but NOT ALL HAVE GLIDESLOPE so be sure to check part number
and be sure to get the tray, backplate and connectors they can be pricey to
find separately.
The kns80 I am told uses an "arinc" standard cdi, but it isn't the same as my
Narco "arinc". The cdi's are mostly not interchangeable, the King KI206 and
KI520 I believe work and the Garmin/Midcontinent I believe work but those
usually are pricey on ebay. A collins 350 or 351 work I forget which is the
glideslope model. Whan I was looking I was warned to get the "A" model of the
Collins as they corrected some problems then. I went with a KI206 indicator with
glideslope, it will also work with the garmin gps so when the garmin 430 gets
affordable I can use my cdi. That cdi will also work with the Garmin 155xl
and 300xl gps. I have been told there are some Cessna/ARC indicators that will
also work with the KNS80 and the Garmins but it was difficult getting
confirmation. I almost bought an ARC that my avionics guy said would probably
work
for $90. So if you can get that confirmed you can probably put together a unit
real reasonable. The Garmin tech told me that if it works on the King KX 165
or KNS 80 it will work on the Garmin 155/300/430/530 so that might help
determine compatability. Something about the resolver being the key factor, I
forget. Be sure the cdi has glideslope.
I knew nothing about avionics and used the internet, some club sites (this
site is new to me) Southeast Aerospace has a nice site that gives specifications
but getting confirmation of compatability across manufacturers was difficult
since nobody wants to take responsibility. As an avionics newbie that was a
problem for me and I just paid for the KING cdi, partly because it can be used
on the Garmin later.
It's big and heavy and cheap and a cooling fan is I believe recommended.
Good luck, Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: transponder question |
Troy,
No reason why that shouldn't work, just as long as the transponder antenna can
make contact with the aluminium sheet. I've not even the first clue about fibreglassing
mind you (mine being a wood plane).
I had similar thoughts about putting the transponder antenna on an aluminium access
panel underneath the fuselage. I decided against it, preferring to keep
the outside of the plane as clean as possible. Also, I would rather an access
panel was just that, and could be removed without pulling on the wires, etc.
(despite there being an easily-undoable BNC connector). Finally, I'd rather the
transponder cable leading up to the aerial would be fixed too, so that it won't
flex, and perhaps fracture, in the long term.
Perhaps this is overly cautious, but I'd rather leave as little to chance as possible.
In the end I just put a little upside-down L-shaped bracket in the fuselage
(fixed to one of the uprights that joins the top and bottom longerons),
which holds the transponder aerial and ground plane in the correct attitude.
Hope this helps.
Nev
ps. I've sent this reply via the list.
----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Scott
To: nkilford(at)etravel.org
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 5:03 PM
Subject: transponder question
Thanks for your response on the Aeroelectric Forum. I need to use the full size
7" access plate for the aileron bellcrank. However, it occurred to me that
I could switch to a 7" fiberglass plate with a correctly sized (5.3"? )thin
sheet of aluminum bonded to the inside of it. This would serve as the ground
plane and still allow me to mount the antenna where I'd planned. Thoughts?
Regards,
Troy Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
Hi Bob and all,
Here is a question that has kept bothering me for several weeks :
A month ago I witnessed the electrician in an FBO advise his co-wokers never
to touch a comm antenna during transmission. He said he did once and got a
handburn.
Question : How hot can an antenna get ? Was he telling the truth, or was he
just reporting another hangar tale ? What is the physics behind the story ?
Thank you for any feedback or explanation
Regards
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
It doesn't really get hot, but there is a bunch
of energy there. (5-25W). You could get and RF
burn, which isn't the same as grabbing the wrong
end of a soldering iron.
When I first got my ham license, I got a Swan 250
I think, and the first time I tuned it up (I didn't
know what I was doing), I got zapped pretty good.
burned the tiniest hole through the tip of my finger.
Gilles.Thesee wrote:
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Here is a question that has kept bothering me for several weeks :
> A month ago I witnessed the electrician in an FBO advise his co-wokers never
> to touch a comm antenna during transmission. He said he did once and got a
> handburn.
>
> Question : How hot can an antenna get ? Was he telling the truth, or was he
> just reporting another hangar tale ? What is the physics behind the story ?
>
> Thank you for any feedback or explanation
> Regards
>
> Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
I have been burned by the RF from a ham radio.
Touching one of those antennas during a transmission is NOT a "cool" thing
to do.
What happens is that you do NOT kow you are being burned until it is way too
late. It is like the RF is boiling the blood inside your finger and you
don't notice until it reaches the boiling point. Once I let go of the
antenna (it was on a roof and someone transmitted when I did not expect such
to occur) that is when it really burned for a while.
I don't know how much energy was transmitted into my fingers but I do know
it was enough. It is probably kinda like you don't want to be inside a
microwave oven while it is on. It won't get hot but your insides REALLY
will.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Gilles.Thesee
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:04 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ?
>
>
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Here is a question that has kept bothering me for several weeks :
> A month ago I witnessed the electrician in an FBO advise his
> co-wokers never
> to touch a comm antenna during transmission. He said he did once and got a
> handburn.
>
> Question : How hot can an antenna get ? Was he telling the truth,
> or was he
> just reporting another hangar tale ? What is the physics behind
> the story ?
>
> Thank you for any feedback or explanation
> Regards
>
> Gilles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
Thanks to Tom and James for their answers.
Boiling blood, that's hair raising !
Never had considered that.
Cheers,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Should I label wires at the connector end ? |
Hi Bob and all,
Soldering 18-20 wires to a 25 pin D-Sub is an easy task, thanks to Bob's
Shop-Note. I succeded in obtaining a neat array of wires in no time at all.
But I went into the trouble of labelling each wire at the connector, which
took twice the time and ended in a not too neat bunch of labels.
Here is my question :
Is it worth the trouble to label the wires at the connector end ? After all,
isn't the pin number there to help identify the wire ?
Thanks for your advice and feed-back on best practice.
Cheers,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
In common surgery, a surgeon will use a skin scalpel, but then does the majority
of cutting AND WELDING of tissue with a "Bovie", the generic name for a hundred-year-old
(!) electrosurgery unit. The device works by vibrating the water
molecules inside the tissue cells until they explode. Thus the surgeon parts tissue
like Moses through the Red Sea. Remarkably, a small tweak to the current,
frequency and wave shape and the surgeon can stop bleeding and even weld tissue
back together. A remarkable and NON-thermal device. Typically the voltage
is hundreds of volts, the frequency is maybe a megahertz, and the delivered power
can be 250 watts.
Yikes! So why doesn't the patient jump right off the table like Galvani's frog?
Nerve conduction progresses by the cells ions communicating from one nerve cell
to another. In order to successfully conduct, the ion must travel across the
cell to the cell wall. But if the electrical current reverses before this can
happen, the ion only gets jostled around and never completes the whole journey.
It turns out curiously, that maximum sensitivity to electrical frequencies
peaks at 50-60 hertz.
So what could the transmitter antenna do to your hand? if the antenna were thin
enough, and tuned just right, it could cut your flesh to the bone with almost
no thermal damage to adjacent tissue, so NO it's not "hot". Most antennas have
too large an area to do much cutting. Nevertheless your hand would not like
it even though there would be little thermal injury and no electrical shock.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Should I label wires at the connector end ? |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
>> Soldering 18-20 wires to a 25 pin D-Sub is an easy task...Is it worth
the trouble to label the wires at the connector end ?
If it were me, I would just document the number/wire relationship and
put it with the rest of the planes diagrams, notes, etc. You could also
make a small label and put it near the connector if possible, however,
if once everything gets closed up and such it my not be practical to
read the label and then the docs make the most sense.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Gilles.Thesee [mailto:Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Should I label wires at the connector end ?
--> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Soldering 18-20 wires to a 25 pin D-Sub is an easy task, thanks to Bob's
Shop-Note. I succeded in obtaining a neat array of wires in no time at
all. But I went into the trouble of labelling each wire at the
connector, which took twice the time and ended in a not too neat bunch
of labels. Here is my question : Is it worth the trouble to label the
wires at the connector end ? After all, isn't the pin number there to
help identify the wire ?
Thanks for your advice and feed-back on best practice.
Cheers,
Gilles
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap blind encoder. |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
:
Envoy : jeudi 15 mai 2003 06:24
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap blind encoder.
> You can drive multiple loads with one encoder but you need an array of
> diodes to avoid cross-coupled problems between loads. I don't
> recall now exactly how the diodes are oriented. I searched the
> net and found some encoder loads (transponders) that claim
> to have isolation diodes installed.
>
.................
>
> The neatest way to install this raft of diodes
> is to lay out a simple etched circuit board with
> d-sub connector to bring wires onto and off the
> board. For driving two loads, there's a total
> 27 wires . . . a single 37-pin D-sub would
> do it.
>
Hi Bob and all,
What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ? I'm not
equipped for etching circuits, nor designing them.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob
I'm trying to download Z11 in order to get a more legible copy than the one
in the Aeroelectric Connection. I want to enlarge it to make it more
compatible with a pair of 72 year old eyes. When I download it, all I get is a
lot of
text/garbage not the drawing. What am I doing wrong. Airplanes I know...
computers, well that's another story.
Thanks, Bob Devaney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
I just downloaded and it works as advertised. I opened it with TurboCAD
LE. Are you saving it first?
R
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobdeva(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-11
>
> Bob
> I'm trying to download Z11 in order to get a more legible copy than the
one
> in the Aeroelectric Connection. I want to enlarge it to make it more
> compatible with a pair of 72 year old eyes. When I download it, all I
get is a lot of
> text/garbage not the drawing. What am I doing wrong. Airplanes I know...
> computers, well that's another story.
>
> Thanks, Bob Devaney
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis(at)defence.gov.au> |
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - MICROAIR RADIOS AND ICOM MICROPHONES |
Folks,
Below is a repeat of an advisory from an Australian glider parts supplier
which may explain to you some sensitivities of Midroair radios matched to
Icom hardware.
Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia.
TO ANYBODY IN GLIDING USING MICROAIR RADIO AND ICOM BOOM MIC
(the thin and short silver booms and insert not changed) please read on and
alert others within your club
I am realising there are still Microairs radios linked to Icom flexible boom
mics. There can be problems with this installation as I have found the hard
way and I know Nigel Andrews the designer has found this also. It shows
itself that every now and then a transmittion does not get out and the radio
is blamed for the fault. After about 3 different radios in an ASH25E I
changed the electret insert in the Icom booms and it has been perfect since.
I have just this week heard of a IS28 at Camden with a Microair and the thin
silver Icom booms and radio problems!! Also Canberra Club were planning to
upgrade radios and they had the Icom booms. In the past I sent out almost 50
microphones (to many countries I might add) with a changed spec insert which
I was caught by and all had to come back.
For some reason unknown to me Microairs are touchy when it comes to electret
inserts. The fix is simple remove the Icom insert and change to Altronics
part no C 0170. I do know there is a DSE insert which is OK but you should
check with Nigel for exact cat no. There is a trick in getting them apart as
you can only just get the insert unsoldered as a knot in coax restricts
removal. This knot can be moved by undoing the mic head from gooseneck with
mini-mini allen key. I can supply inserts at $2.30 if you can not get them
locally. Alternatively I have an exchange service for Icom mics and at the
same time I strengthen the base so hopefully they will not fail in the
future. The big problem is I only have one exchange boom that I can send out
at a time. If your glider is out of air for Form 2 then that is a good time
to return same. I suggest a green paint dot on insert to indicate it has
been changed.
So if you see somebody in your club not on this list and the have the
Microair/Icom combination please alert them as it would be wonderful to see
this problem gone once and for all !! PLEASE!!!!
Bye
Ian McPhee
Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia
Tel +61 (0)2 66 847 642 Mob +61 (0)428 847 642
iankmcphee(at)bigpond.com
www.mrsoaring.com <http://www.mrsoaring.com/> and being revamped next
week!!.
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring terminal |
The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe). I
was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with Van's
basic wiring kit.
How have others handled this...do you have to use ring terminals with a
smaller hole, or can you use the 5/16" terminal? It looks like once
tightened it'll be fine, but I'm curious if it's generally acceptable that
way.
Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring terminal |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Dan,
Get on the Aeroelectric website, choose tools and materials, and
somewhere down the list are ring terminals for #2 wire with an
assortment of hole sizes. I just got some and they work great.
Joel Harding
On Sunday, June 1, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
> The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe).
> I
> was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with
> Van's
> basic wiring kit.
>
> How have others handled this...do you have to use ring terminals with a
> smaller hole, or can you use the 5/16" terminal? It looks like once
> tightened it'll be fine, but I'm curious if it's generally acceptable
> that
> way.
>
> Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this...
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Handburn on antenna : fact or mythology ? |
Gilles.Thesee wrote:
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>Here is a question that has kept bothering me for several weeks :
>A month ago I witnessed the electrician in an FBO advise his co-wokers never
>to touch a comm antenna during transmission. He said he did once and got a
>handburn.
>
>Question : How hot can an antenna get ? Was he telling the truth, or was he
>just reporting another hangar tale ? What is the physics behind the story ?
>
>Thank you for any feedback or explanation
>Regards
>
>Gilles
>
Gilles,
A well designed antenna is not supposed to get hot. If it gets hot
that means that there is somewhere a high contact resistance and it
is converting power from the transmitter into heat rather than into waves.
However, some heat will be generated in your hand if you put it too
close to the operating antenna in the area of a strong field. Same thing
as placing your hand in a microwave oven, except a different power
level. A microwave oven generates hundreds of watts, or even above a
kilowatt. The airplane transmitter usually generates below 10W, and
only a fraction of that would be coupled into your finger. That power
is comparable to a very small soldering iron, but you would not like to
hold even a small operating soldering iron in your hand.
Making it short, an antenna with a power of several watts might make a
small burn if you touch it, but stay away from high power antennas, they
can make large burns. If you touch a high voltage area of an antenna fed
with several hundred watts, an arc like in an electric welder will
start between your finger and the antenna creating a lot of damage. With
higher power antennas it is easy to get in trouble even without touching
them. Get too close and they will overheat you and ruin your eyes or
kidneys which are very heat sensitive, no matter that antenna is quite
cold. The bad thing is that when the whole body is uniformly heated we
do not feel much of a problem as it is in the case of localized surface
heating, and the result might be very bad. But I hope you are not
installing several kilowatt transmitter in your plane : )
Jerzy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
I decided that I'd like to make the warning circuit Jim Weir put in this months
KitPlanes. I visited my local Radio Shack and was able to get everything except
the 10nF mylar capacitor. They told me that they have never stocked capacitors
this small!!!! All the other local sources had nothing either and I'm reluctant
to try Mouser or Digikey for one mylar capacitor.
Does aanyone have any suggestions or better yet does anyone have one of these they
could sell me?
Any help gratefully received.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage - now a canoe!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wallace Enga <wenga(at)svtv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring |
terminal
Another way to do it is to get a SAE Terminal Adapter Kit which has
brass posts that screw into the PC680 and then you can use a
3/8" brass bolt for your ring terminals.
I got mine from Cell Energy, Inc Part # 3217-0006 , not cheap
they were about $15.
I also just saw them in the latest Wick's catalog at about the same price.
Wally Enga
RV7 N757E
>The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe). I
>was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with Van's
>basic wiring kit.
>
>How have others handled this...do you have to use ring terminals with a
>smaller hole, or can you use the 5/16" terminal? It looks like once
>tightened it'll be fine, but I'm curious if it's generally acceptable that
>way.
>
>Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this...
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring terminal |
The PC680 terminals use a female 6 mm metric thread. This is approximately
1/4 inch for sizing ring terminals, but users will have to locate 6 mm
bolts/cap screws or whatever to do the final connection. (Unless Odessy is
including the bolts these days - they were not included with my PC680).
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring terminal
>
> The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe). I
> was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with Van's
> basic wiring kit.
>
> How have others handled this...do you have to use ring terminals with a
> smaller hole, or can you use the 5/16" terminal? It looks like once
> tightened it'll be fine, but I'm curious if it's generally acceptable that
> way.
>
> Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this...
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Fuel Gauge Design |
>
>
>>On 5/29/03, Eric M. Jones" wrote:
>>(snip)
>>Put ten tiny tiny tiny 0805 size PTC thermistors on a flex circuit with a
>>Gortex sleeve over it. Arrange these logarithmically so that they can be
>>read-out by a 10-led bar graph. Stuff it through a 1/4" rivnut installed in each
>>tank. On the instrument panel, 10 leds100%, 9 leds70.7%, 8 leds50%, 7 leds35.4%,
6
>>leds+25%, 5 leds17.7%, 4 leds12.5%, 3 leds8.8%, 2 leds6.2%, 1 led4.4%.
>>
>>
>\
>
Just guessing the principle of operation..The thermistors are heated by
current, The thermistors in liquid are efficiently cooled, their
temperature is almost equal to the temperature of the liquid, and their
resistance is low. The thermistors above the liquid do not have much
cooling , they get hot, their resistance goes up. The system monitors
resistance of the thermistors and can figure out the position of the
surface of the liquid.
However, temperature of the liquid is not constant, it can vary between
say 40C on a hot day in Oklahoma to say -20C on a cold day somewhere
further North . To make it more complicated all PTC thermistors that I
was working with had positive coefficient within relatively narrow
temperature range, and outside of that range they behaved like standard
NTC thermistors. I believe that all PTC thermistors behave that way.
That would require to select a PTC thermistor with positive coefficient
temperature range somewhere above the highest posible ambient
temperature, say above 50C.
Here comes a possible problem. When it is very cold the PTC thermistor
runs into normal NTC range, its resistance goes up, the thermal power
generated in the thermistor goes down, and that power might not be
sufficient to heat it up to 50 deg even if it is above the liquid.
There is another possible problem. Imagine that it is very hot outside,
the thermistor is additionaly heated by the current, it gets very hot
until it jumps over the PTC range into the normal NTC range. Now its
resistance decreasesas as it gets hotter, which pumps more current into
it, which makes it hotter and lower resistance, which pumps even more
current, etc., until it melts.
Both problems can be solved driving the thermistors from a proper
current source. However, the second problem might still happen
producing false reading rather than melt down.
There is an additional problem of comparing (changing with ambient
temperature) resistance of the submerged thermistors with also changing
with the ambient resistance of the thermistors above the surface. It is
possible that there is a trick which might make it easy, but it seems
again that interpretation of the results would be the easiest with a
microcontroller that would sequentially measure resistance of
thermistors and set the liguid level between the group of thermistors
with equal (but not constant) resistance, and the first hotter one.
Am I missing something? Is there an easy way?
Jerzy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Jula" <jmjula(at)attbi.com> |
They have them, they probably did not recognize the nF reference. Ask for a
0.01uF cap, it is the same size. They show up on the Radio Shack website.
They carry capacitors much smaller, as low as 1pF (0.001nF). Sometimes you
need to purchase capacitor packs to get what you want there.
James
I decided that I'd like to make the warning circuit Jim Weir put in this
months KitPlanes. I visited my local Radio Shack and was able to get
everything except the 10nF mylar capacitor. They told me that they have
never stocked capacitors this small!!!! All the other local sources had
nothing either and I'm reluctant to try Mouser or Digikey for one mylar
capacitor.
Does aanyone have any suggestions or better yet does anyone have one of
these they could sell me?
Any help gratefully received.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage - now a canoe!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Wolfgang Trinks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Wolfgang Trinks
Subject: LUN2141 Regulator Schematic
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Wolfgang.Trinks@flugbereitschaft.com.06.01.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Loram <johnl(at)loram.org> |
10nF = .01uF. Radio Shack has them.
nano-Farad is a relatively recent term. You won't find in in most catalogs
(e.g. Digikey).
1 nano farad is still often written as 0.001 uF
1000 pico Farad (pF) = 1 nano Farad (nF)
1000 nano Farad (nF) = 1 micro Farad (uF aka mFd)
1,000,000 microFarad (uF) = 1 Farad
milliFarad is not used. Or at least I've never (in 50 years) seen it.
regards, -john-
john(at)loram.org
www.loram.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob W M Shipley [mailto:Rob(at)RobsGlass.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 10nF mylar cap.
I decided that I'd like to make the warning circuit Jim Weir put in this
months KitPlanes. I visited my local Radio Shack and was able to get
everything except the 10nF mylar capacitor. They told me that they have
never stocked capacitors this small!!!! All the other local sources had
nothing either and I'm reluctant to try Mouser or Digikey for one mylar
capacitor.
Does aanyone have any suggestions or better yet does anyone have one of
these they could sell me?
Any help gratefully received.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage - now a canoe!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Expando Foam and Custom Boxes... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
I'm in the process of retrofitting my Garmin GPS 195 handheld unit to my
panel (I love this unit - one of the best I've seen even though it's an
old one by technology's standards). Because my panel is small (Zodiac
601) and the unit's full height will interfere with my layout I've taken
the GPS apart and looked for ways to mount just the screen and buttons
to the panel and save the 1.5 inches of 'wasted' built-in antenna space
which is exactly what I need to get the unit to fit. It does look like
I'll be able to rig something together for the panel mounting the key
components of the GPS, but will then have to put the main circuit board
for the GPS in a box and mount it behind of the panel where I have more
space options.
I remember seeing an article about if you needed a quick dirty way to
keep a circuit board secure in a box, you could use the expanding
insulation foam to secure the circuit board. Obviously, this would make
working on the board in the future difficult if not impossible, but I
highly doubt I'll be troubleshooting a high denisty board with 99.9%
surface mounted components. Also, this would make sure the board was
protected from the vibrations as well.
Any way, was hoping to get some thoughts on using the expanding foam to
secure the main PCB in a box - pros or cons...
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
P.S. If for some reason this doesn't work, I can always just go
purchase a Garmin GPS Pilot III which will fit very nicely without any
mods, but that would be the easy way and then I'd end up with a smaller
GPS screen ;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Expando Foam and Custom Boxes... |
Hello Don,
How about putting the board inside a baggy or a zip-lock bag before potting
it in the foam. Then if there even came a need to look at the board it might
more easilly reached.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Expando Foam and Custom Boxes...
>
> I'm in the process of retrofitting my Garmin GPS 195 handheld unit to my
> panel (I love this unit - one of the best I've seen even though it's an
> old one by technology's standards). Because my panel is small (Zodiac
> 601) and the unit's full height will interfere with my layout I've taken
> the GPS apart and looked for ways to mount just the screen and buttons
> to the panel and save the 1.5 inches of 'wasted' built-in antenna space
> which is exactly what I need to get the unit to fit. It does look like
> I'll be able to rig something together for the panel mounting the key
> components of the GPS, but will then have to put the main circuit board
> for the GPS in a box and mount it behind of the panel where I have more
> space options.
>
> I remember seeing an article about if you needed a quick dirty way to
> keep a circuit board secure in a box, you could use the expanding
> insulation foam to secure the circuit board. Obviously, this would make
> working on the board in the future difficult if not impossible, but I
> highly doubt I'll be troubleshooting a high denisty board with 99.9%
> surface mounted components. Also, this would make sure the board was
> protected from the vibrations as well.
>
> Any way, was hoping to get some thoughts on using the expanding foam to
> secure the main PCB in a box - pros or cons...
>
> Thanks!
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
>
> P.S. If for some reason this doesn't work, I can always just go
> purchase a Garmin GPS Pilot III which will fit very nicely without any
> mods, but that would be the easy way and then I'd end up with a smaller
> GPS screen ;)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | battery bus directly from battery terminal? |
Bob,
In all of the Z figures the battery bus is supplied power from a wire that
comes off the "always hot" terminal of the battery contactor. In my
particular case, because of where I would like to mount the battery bus fuse
block, I'd like to power the it directly from the battery's (+) terminal in
order to satisfy the "6 inches or less" requirement and still be able to
locate the battery bus fuse block in a reasonable location.
Is this acceptable, wiring directly from the (+) terminal as opposed to from
the contactor's hot terminal?
If so, is there any advantage or disadvantage to using a separate ring
terminal vs. soldering the smaller battery bus wire right into the 2 AWG
ring terminal for the wire to the battery contactor? I figure a separate
ring terminal (and just stack 'em) makes the most sense but figured I'd ask.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on small connector for avionics |
I would like to have small connectors between my audio panel and the various
avionics for easy removal of tray and upgrade, or to just pull tray and be
able to work behind the panel. I would appreciate thoughts and places to buy and
brand name or an numbers.
Also, can someone please give me a basic briefing of the pin insertion and
retraction tools, are all Mollinex the same for instance or are there different
sizes.
Thank you Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Fuel Gauge Design |
krasinski(at)direcway.com>
>>> 5/29/03, Eric M. Jones" wrote:
>>>(snip)
>>>Put ten tiny tiny tiny 0805 size PTC thermistors on a flex circuit with a
>>>snipped
Exactly. Thermistors have been used for level sensing for a long time too.
But they only recently were available in tiny 0805 SMD. Some other changes
in technology make this scheme more attractive that previously.
>However, temperature of the liquid is not constant, it can vary between
>say 40C on a hot day in Oklahoma to say -20C on a cold day somewhere
>further North .
Yes. The thermistor I plan to use has a 70C transition. The ones I have in
the prototype are 110C,
so they get hotter than I would like, but they are tiny and as they
say...It's only a prototype....
>To make it more complicated all PTC thermistors that I
>was working with had positive coefficient within relatively narrow
>temperature range, and outside of that range they behaved like standard
>NTC thermistors. ...........
>That would require to select a PTC thermistor with positive coefficient
>temperature range somewhere above the highest possible ambient
>temperature, say above 50C.
The transition temperature is all that's important here. It must be above
any likely fuel temperature. BTW--Gasoline flash point is minus-40C, boiling
point is +40C to 200C more or less.
>runs into normal NTC range, its resistance goes up, the thermal power
>generated in the thermistor goes down, and that power might not be
>sufficient to heat it up to 50 deg even if it is above the liquid.
Yes. That could be. So a parallel resistor in close proximity to the PTC
might be required. Sounds like R&D.
>There is another possible problem. Imagine that it is very hot outside,
>the thermistor is additionally heated by the current, it gets very hot
>until it jumps over the PTC range into the normal NTC range. Now its
>resistance decreases as it gets hotter, which pumps more current into
>it, which makes it hotter and lower resistance, which pumps even more
>current, etc., until it melts.
Yes, however I surmise if it gets THAT hot out. My airplane will melt first.
>Both problems can be solved driving the thermistors from a proper
>current source. However, the second problem might still happen
>producing false reading rather than melt down.
Maybe...
>There is an additional problem of comparing (changing with ambient
>temperature) resistance of the submerged thermistors with also changing
>with the ambient resistance of the thermistors above the surface. It is
>possible that there is a trick which might make it easy, but it seems
>again that interpretation of the results would be the easiest with a
>microcontroller that would sequentially measure resistance of
>thermistors and set the liquid level between the group of thermistors
>with equal (but not constant) resistance, and the first hotter one.
We're going to see. A microprocessor would still be a good addition to any
system.
>Am I missing something? Is there an easy way?
>Jerzy
I think a PTC thermistor system could be the simplest method. It is even
possible to build ONE long monolithic flexible thermistor. How would it
change with fuel level???
BTW--I still have my amazing self-heating pitot tube that calmly maintains a
30C temp. Inside are 30C PTC thermistors. Nothing else.
Thanks for the great input.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Expando Foam and Custom Boxes... |
>I remember seeing an article about if you needed a quick dirty way to
>keep a circuit board secure in a box, you could use the expanding
>insulation foam to secure the circuit board. Obviously, this would make
>working on the board in the future difficult if not impossible, but I
>highly doubt I'll be troubleshooting a high denisty board with 99.9%
>surface mounted components. Also, this would make sure the board was
>protected from the vibrations as well.
>
>Any way, was hoping to get some thoughts on using the expanding foam to
>secure the main PCB in a box - pros or cons...
I suggested the foamed-in-place encapsulation for securing
spider-webbed assemblies using techniques described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cladboard/cladboard.html
If your device is assembled onto an etched circuit board, there's
no need to secure it further. If fact, an enclosure is only useful
while the assembly is being handled. Unless it's in danger of being
kicked or otherwise damaged after installation, or you need a metallic
enclosure for RFI protection, there's little value in even putting
a box around it.
A number of our products are offered sans enclosure and suggested that
they simple be installed as-is like this:
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on small connector for |
avionics
>
>I would like to have small connectors between my audio panel and the various
>avionics for easy removal of tray and upgrade, or to just pull tray and be
>able to work behind the panel. I would appreciate thoughts and places to
>buy and
>brand name or an numbers.
>
>Also, can someone please give me a basic briefing of the pin insertion and
>retraction tools, are all Mollinex the same for instance or are there
>different
>sizes.
Every manufacturer of a removable pin connector uses unique tooling
unless the connector is built to some standard like the D-subs mentioned
below . . .
>Thank you Skip Simpson
The Type D Subminiature (D-sub) connectors like those on the back
of your computer are probably the most user friendly devices you can
get . . . prices and tooling are attractive too. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#rct-3
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#dse-1
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/connect/connect.html#S604
Shells for these connectors (as well as solder cub versions
of the connectors) are available from virtually every electronic
supply store not the least of which are Digikey and Radio Shack.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring |
terminal
>
>The PC680 terminals use a female 6 mm metric thread. This is approximately
>1/4 inch for sizing ring terminals, but users will have to locate 6 mm
>bolts/cap screws or whatever to do the final connection. (Unless Odessy is
>including the bolts these days - they were not included with my PC680).
>
>Jim Oke
>Winnipeg, MB
Hawker supplies hardware with the batteries but they're packaged
separately. Many distributors don't take pains to make sure the
little bag of hardware goes out with the battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10nF mylar cap. |
>
>I decided that I'd like to make the warning circuit Jim Weir put in this
>months KitPlanes. I visited my local Radio Shack and was able to get
>everything except the 10nF mylar capacitor. They told me that they have
>never stocked capacitors this small!!!! All the other local sources had
>nothing either and I'm reluctant to try Mouser or Digikey for one mylar
>capacitor.
>Does aanyone have any suggestions or better yet does anyone have one of
>these they could sell me?
>Any help gratefully received.
Yup, you got questions, they got answers.
"nano" is 10 to the minus 9th exponent. In the US
manufacturers and designers have largely ignored this multiplier
preferring to use "micro" (10 to the minus 6) and
"pico" (10 to the minus 12) multipliers.
Electronics diagrams from other parts of the world
have taken advantage of the intermediate nano multiplier
ever since I can remember . . .
1 nF is 1000 pF and .001 mF
So the 10 nF capacitor callout can also be written
as .01 mF or 10,000 pF . . . and Radio Shack has
had them since day-one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring |
terminal
>
>The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe). I
>was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with Van's
>basic wiring kit.
>
>How have others handled this...do you have to use ring terminals with a
>smaller hole, or can you use the 5/16" terminal? It looks like once
>tightened it'll be fine, but I'm curious if it's generally acceptable that
>way.
>
>Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this...
It's best to get a terminal that fits the screw . . . electrical
connection integrity is a function of PRESSURE that the threaded
fasteners are expected to place on the mated parts. If the hole
in a terminal is oversized, the ability of a fastener to provide
this pressure is compromised. B&C can supply you with terminals
with exactly the hole size you need.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob
>I'm trying to download Z11 in order to get a more legible copy than the one
>in the Aeroelectric Connection. I want to enlarge it to make it more
>compatible with a pair of 72 year old eyes. When I download it, all I get
>is a lot of
>text/garbage not the drawing. What am I doing wrong. Airplanes I know...
>computers, well that's another story.
Sounds like you were looking at or trying to print the file
contents without using the appropriate application to open
it. The drawings are in .dwg format by AutoCAD and are compatible
with a number of other cad programs not the least of which are
those supplied on the CD rom from our website.
The CD can be downloaded at
http://216.55.140.222/CD/AEC8_0.zip
or purchased at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery bus directly from battery |
terminal?
>
>Bob,
>
>In all of the Z figures the battery bus is supplied power from a wire that
>comes off the "always hot" terminal of the battery contactor. In my
>particular case, because of where I would like to mount the battery bus fuse
>block, I'd like to power the it directly from the battery's (+) terminal in
>order to satisfy the "6 inches or less" requirement and still be able to
>locate the battery bus fuse block in a reasonable location.
>
>Is this acceptable, wiring directly from the (+) terminal as opposed to from
>the contactor's hot terminal?
>
>If so, is there any advantage or disadvantage to using a separate ring
>terminal vs. soldering the smaller battery bus wire right into the 2 AWG
>ring terminal for the wire to the battery contactor? I figure a separate
>ring terminal (and just stack 'em) makes the most sense but figured I'd ask.
Stacking terminals is fine. But I wouldn't loose any sleep over
the 6" rule-of-thumb either. I think there is value in having the
battery bus feed come from a relatively permanent connection like
the battery contactor as opposed to using a termination subject
to routine maintenance . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey PC680 terminal with larger ring terminal |
In a message dated 6/1/03 7:50:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com
writes:
<< The cap screws on the Odyssey PC680's terminals are 3/16" (I believe). I
was planning on using the 2 AWG 5/16" ring terminals that came with Van's
basic wiring kit. >>
I have what is supposed to be a clone of the PC 680 from Battery Web .com.
The terminal cap screws on my battery are metric size 10, or 0.224 in. I used
a "D" drill to open the holes in some 3/16" terminals. Worked for me.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on small connector for avionics |
Skip,
Unsolicited testimonial: The RCT-3 crimp tool found on Bob's website works
great.
With this tool and a bag of machined male and female pins, building up d-subs
is very fast. Strip the wire, drop a pin in the tool, crimp, plug it into
the d-sub connector body. When all the wires are in there, add the shell and
you're done.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RF burns from antenna . . .fact or mythology ? |
>
>
>I have been burned by the RF from a ham radio.
>
>Touching one of those antennas during a transmission is NOT a "cool" thing
>to do.
>
>What happens is that you do NOT kow you are being burned until it is way too
>late. It is like the RF is boiling the blood inside your finger and you
>don't notice until it reaches the boiling point. Once I let go of the
>antenna (it was on a roof and someone transmitted when I did not expect such
>to occur) that is when it really burned for a while.
>
>I don't know how much energy was transmitted into my fingers but I do know
>it was enough. It is probably kinda like you don't want to be inside a
>microwave oven while it is on. It won't get hot but your insides REALLY
>will.
Don't know about the blood boiling bit . . . but consider
the following:
The dielectric strength of air is about 1,000 volts per
.001" of airspace. This is means that if you put your finger
within .001" of a conductor carrying 1,000 volts more potential
than your body, you can get a arc. Once the arc starts, air
in intervening space is ionized and it now takes much less
than 1,000 volts to sustain the arc.
An arc is HOT . . . energy is released in a relatively small
volume which elevates temperatures in the arc to well over
1,000 degrees. Boil blood? Probably. Cook meat? Probably.
Get your attention via the nervous system? One certainly
hopes so.
How does that voltage get there? Take a peek at Figure 13-5
in the 'Connection. Hmmm . . . just noticed an error in
that figure . . . the bottom label on the y-axis is zero.
It should be minimum . . . I've fixed the figure and uploaded
to http://216.55.140.222/temp/DIPOLE.pdf
Anywho, this figure illustrates the distribution of voltage
across the antenna's length. A 1/2-wave dipole is shown,
a 1/4-wave vertical monopole is similar . . just half the
structure.
If we're conducting 5-watts of power into the low impedance
point on the antenna (center or base) then voltage at the
base will be on the order of E(squared)/R=watts or
E(squared)= 5-Watts * 50-Ohms = 16 volts.
Now, as you move toward the end of the antenna the current
in antenna rod goes down while the voltage goes up. How high?
Saw the reasoning behind that calculation once but don't recall
now what it was . . . but trust me, at the FREE END of an
antenna, the voltage can become high enough to get your
attention.
Recall that a laser rated in a few hundred milliwatts is
capable of concentrating that power into a very small area
so that POWER DENSITY (watts/cc) can be a spectacular
number. Same thing happens with the itty-bitty transmitter
arcing off the top of an antenna to your finger. It may
not excite a LOT of nerves but the few it does hammer
on get really irritated.
Frequency of the energy has an effect too. 130 Mhz RF
is more penetrating and will propagate across smaller
gaps that DC. I've held my hand in front of an operating
radar antenna on the B-52 and felt a slight warming.
In years past, doctors hooked patients up to diathermy machines
operating at 27 MHz for the therapeutic value of
deep penetration heating effects. Got one of those
treatments for a kidney disorder when I was a teenager.
I've not seen such a machine in a doctor's office
in about 45 years but the machines are still out there.
See
http://www.mettlerelec.com/diatherm.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/safety/121902.pdf
http://www.orthoteers.co.uk/Nrujp~ij33lm/Orthdiathermy.htm
https://www.dmc.org/health_info/topics/spor3327.html
Here are links where higher energy densities are
used for surgical effects.
http://www.mbnsclinic.co.uk/diathermy.htm
http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/ab002211.htm
While radio frequency energy has qualities different than
DC or ordinary line frequency AC . . . it's not particularly
"magic" . . . just simple-idea based physics.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap blind encoder. |
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ? I'm not
>equipped for etching circuits, nor designing them.
>Any suggestions ?
>
>Thanks,
>Gilles
There's free diy software for crafting and ordering
boards available from
http://www.expresspcb.com/
I'm not sure they can or will ship internationally.
I could do the layout, order the boards and then
forward them to you. How many radios are you tying
to the encoder and how many of them do not already
have isolation diodes?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap blind encoder. |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
:
Envoy : lundi 2 juin 2003 20:49
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap blind encoder.
>
>
> >
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ? I'm
not
> >equipped for etching circuits, nor designing them.
> >Any suggestions ?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Gilles
>
> There's free diy software for crafting and ordering
> boards available from
> http://www.expresspcb.com/
>
> I'm not sure they can or will ship internationally.
> I could do the layout, order the boards and then
> forward them to you. How many radios are you tying
> to the encoder and how many of them do not already
> have isolation diodes?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob,
Thanks for your offer.
I downloaded the software and I'll try to produce an acceptable setup.
My intention is to connect a Garmin GPS 400 and a Becker ATC-4401
transponder to an Ameri-King 350 encoder.
The GPs already has the diodes built in. I don't know yet for the Becker. I
asked them but no response to date. As soon as the radios arrive I'll
perform the test you described.
Or maybe someone around knows for the Becker ?
Cheers,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | PTT - Ground Wire |
I had an avionics shop build the wire harnesses for my nav / com radios.
It all looks good except for a question on the PTT wiring. The UPS SL15
manual shows the PTT switch wired between the Mic PTT (tip) and Mic Lo
(ring) on the Mic jack, that is, two wires in a closed circuit with the
switch in between. The Mic Lo then goes to on to ground in the system.
My avionics guy ran just one wire from the Mic PTT (tip) to the actual
PTT switch and told me to take the other side of the PTT switch to
ground. It all looks good, logically, but is different that the closed
circuit diagram as well as the ones that Bob has printed as examples.
Is this proposal going to cause me problems, with not running another
wire back to the mic jack?
Duane
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cheap blind encoder. |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
>> What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ?
You may also want to try a do it yourself home project for the PCB. A
lot of electronic stores have kits that you buy to make your own PCBs at
home.
I got into this about a year or so ago to make a USB based ISO7816 data
logger for my business to help better understand how these devices work.
After a few attempts I was able to make some really nice boards that
used surface mounted uControllers with a 100+ pin count by using just my
laser printer, some paper, UV light, and required chemicals. If you've
ever developed pictures the 'old fashion way' it's pretty much the same.
Only hard part is getting a good starting image when dealing with super
small surface mount ICs and traces, but for the diode project any old
laser printer or even an inkjet would work fine.
Good Luck,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap blind encoder.
-->
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ? I'm
>not equipped for etching circuits, nor designing them. Any suggestions
>?
>
>Thanks,
>Gilles
There's free diy software for crafting and ordering
boards available from
http://www.expresspcb.com/
I'm not sure they can or will ship internationally.
I could do the layout, order the boards and then
forward them to you. How many radios are you tying
to the encoder and how many of them do not already
have isolation diodes?
Bob . . .
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rino <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap blind encoder. |
You may want to check these people on yet a different technique of
making PCBs
This is the method I prefer.
Rino
http://www.mnsi.net/~boucher/makepcbs.htm
Don Honabach wrote:
>
>
> >> What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ?
>
> You may also want to try a do it yourself home project for the PCB. A
> lot of electronic stores have kits that you buy to make your own PCBs at
> home.
>
> I got into this about a year or so ago to make a USB based ISO7816 data
> logger for my business to help better understand how these devices work.
> After a few attempts I was able to make some really nice boards that
> used surface mounted uControllers with a 100+ pin count by using just my
> laser printer, some paper, UV light, and required chemicals. If you've
> ever developed pictures the 'old fashion way' it's pretty much the same.
> Only hard part is getting a good starting image when dealing with super
> small surface mount ICs and traces, but for the diode project any old
> laser printer or even an inkjet would work fine.
>
> Good Luck,
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cheap blind encoder.
>
> -->
>
> >
> >Hi Bob and all,
> >
> >What could be a simple way to make the above etched circuit board ? I'm
>
> >not equipped for etching circuits, nor designing them. Any suggestions
> >?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Gilles
>
> There's free diy software for crafting and ordering
> boards available from
> http://www.expresspcb.com/
>
> I'm not sure they can or will ship internationally.
> I could do the layout, order the boards and then
> forward them to you. How many radios are you tying
> to the encoder and how many of them do not already
> have isolation diodes?
>
> Bob . . .
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PTT - Ground Wire |
>
>I had an avionics shop build the wire harnesses for my nav / com radios.
>It all looks good except for a question on the PTT wiring. The UPS SL15
>manual shows the PTT switch wired between the Mic PTT (tip) and Mic Lo
>(ring) on the Mic jack, that is, two wires in a closed circuit with the
>switch in between. The Mic Lo then goes to on to ground in the system.
>
>
>My avionics guy ran just one wire from the Mic PTT (tip) to the actual
>PTT switch and told me to take the other side of the PTT switch to
>ground. It all looks good, logically, but is different that the closed
>circuit diagram as well as the ones that Bob has printed as examples.
>Is this proposal going to cause me problems, with not running another
>wire back to the mic jack?
The "ring" terminal is microphone HI . . . are you sure their
diagram doesn't show connection to the "barrel" or "sleeve"
connection which then goes to ground? The barrel or sleeve
connection is usually MIC LO and PTT return to ground.
The tech's suggestion is how tens of thousands of external
PTT switches have been wired and will probably be okay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
This is probably a silly question, but I'd rather ask than do it wrong...
On the LR3C alternator controller from B&C, what type of wire terminals are
ideal to use with the screws, ring terminals or spade terminals? Spade
terminals seem like they'd work better since you wouldn't have to remove the
screw to install...but B&C doesn't sell spade terminals...which implies to
me that they're not recommended.
Am I over-thinking this?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Merging wiring - FWF |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Bob Hi! from UK
Did some light reading of Aero Connection Manual this morning over breakfast
to establish some guidance over wiring compatibility. Very wholesome! Still
need your words of wisdom!
In an effort to keep efficient and 'tidy' Wiring, can you advise or confirm
that it it probably be OK to merge various Instrument Sensor wires in 22 AWG
unsceened with the Magneto screened wires (18 AWG) into a single loom,
separating again once through Firewall conduit. I have 22 AWG Screened if
more suitable.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384 Tri-gear
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C terminals |
>
>This is probably a silly question, but I'd rather ask than do it wrong...
>
>On the LR3C alternator controller from B&C, what type of wire terminals are
>ideal to use with the screws, ring terminals or spade terminals? Spade
>terminals seem like they'd work better since you wouldn't have to remove the
>screw to install...but B&C doesn't sell spade terminals...which implies to
>me that they're not recommended.
>
>Am I over-thinking this?
Conventional wisdom calls for ring terminals over threaded
fasteners. The open spade terminals are frowned upon because
they would fall off if the screw got loose . . . but if the
screw is loose, then operation of the system is problematical
anyhow and we've designed the system to be protected from
results of any faults due to wires falling off . . .
It's probably more of a craftsmanship issue than a safety
issue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Transpondeur cable question |
Hi Bob and all,
The Becker AT4401 transponder installation manual calls for RG 223/U coax
for the 175 watt version, and RG 58/U or RG 223/U for the 250 watt model.
We didn't know that before installing RG 58/U cable in the plane.
How do those two cables losses compare for a length of 17 ft (5 meters) at
1030 or 1090 MHz ?
And could we install RG 400, easier to find in short lengths ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
Having heard only good things about Mid-Continent instruments, and having
heard several negative comments about the Falcon turn coordinators, I opted
to buy the Mid-Continent turn coordinator from Chief. My only concern (so
far) is that on the back of the instrument it reads:
"Calibrated for installation in vertical panel"
Maybe I'm reading into it, but on my RV-7 the panel has an 8-degree forward
tilt. Should I be concerned about this turn coordinator functioning
properly? It's my assumption that only *attitude* gyros need to be
specially calibrated for the 8-degree tilt (so the horizon lines up
properly). Is that the case?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder cable question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>The Becker AT4401 transponder installation manual calls for RG 223/U coax
>for the 175 watt version, and RG 58/U or RG 223/U for the 250 watt model.
>We didn't know that before installing RG 58/U cable in the plane.
>
>How do those two cables losses compare for a length of 17 ft (5 meters) at
>1030 or 1090 MHz ?
>And could we install RG 400, easier to find in short lengths ?
I added RG223 to the coax loss chart I published a year ago.
You can find it at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/coaxloss.pdf
223 is and "old" coax with PVC jacket . . . if it were my
airplane, I'd use RG-400. If I had a scrap of RG-141 laying
around (solid conductor version of 400), I'd use up the scrap
before I bought new RG-400.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
In a message dated 6/3/03 5:29:06 PM Central Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com
writes:
> Maybe I'm reading into it, but on my RV-7 the panel has an 8-degree forward
> tilt. Should I be concerned about this turn coordinator functioning
> properly? It's my assumption that only *attitude* gyros need to be
> specially calibrated for the 8-degree tilt (so the horizon lines up
> properly). Is that the case?
Good Evening Dan,
That instrument definitely need to be mounted in a vertical panel. If you
have an eight degree slanted panel, you either have to have an instrument
calibrated that way at the factory or use an eight degree wedge to get it back
in
the proper plane.
Canting the gyro makes it act like a Turn Coordinator. That is all a TC is.
It is a rate gyro mounted at an angle of between thirty and forty-five
degrees (very often 37 degrees) to the level so that it will be sensitive to both
roll and yaw. A Turn and Bank that is properly mounted will be affected only by
yaw. Obviously, the speed, and thus, the angle of attack, being flown will
affect that to some degree, but the instrument manufacturers do make provision
within the instrument for mounting in slanted panels so that the instrument
will be as little affected by extraneous sensing as is possible.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
In a message dated 6/3/03 5:29:06 PM Central Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com
writes:
> "Calibrated for installation in vertical panel"
>
Good Evening Once Again Dan,
I obviously didn't read your original message correctly prior to sending my
message. You have a Turn Coordinator and not a Turn and Bank.
My message was specifically oriented toward proper mounting of the T&B not a
TC. However, the same thing applies.
It should be mounted as the manufacturer intended. You can purchase rate
instruments that are calibrated for slanted panels. Since the TC never tells the
truth anyway, I guess mounting it correctly would not be as important as is
mounting a T&B correctly, but I would imagine mounting it eight degrees off of
where it was designed to be could adversely affect the ratio as to whether the
instrument was indicating roll or yaw. The Rate of Turn indications during a
stable coordinated turn would probably be acceptably close even when mounted
on a slanted panel. Best, though, to get an instrument matched to your panel.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
Dan,
I wonder how it could know? I mean, even if it's in a vertical panel, what
about if you were in a climb, or a descent, or a turn. Assuming it's only
important during startup, what about if you were starting on a slope? Or in a
tailwheel? No panel could be *exactly* vertical, could it?
Perhaps it just means a grossly vertical panel, i.e. not a horizontal panel.
I'll be interested to hear a definitive answer.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150, UK.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question
>
> Having heard only good things about Mid-Continent instruments, and having
> heard several negative comments about the Falcon turn coordinators, I opted
> to buy the Mid-Continent turn coordinator from Chief. My only concern (so
> far) is that on the back of the instrument it reads:
>
> "Calibrated for installation in vertical panel"
>
> Maybe I'm reading into it, but on my RV-7 the panel has an 8-degree forward
> tilt. Should I be concerned about this turn coordinator functioning
> properly? It's my assumption that only *attitude* gyros need to be
> specially calibrated for the 8-degree tilt (so the horizon lines up
> properly). Is that the case?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder cable question |
Bob,
Talk of a quick answer !
Now a naive question : does a 30 db/100 ft loss give a 6 db loss for 20 ft ?
I forgot about those logarithmic functions.
Our cable loss must be less than 18.5 db (17-18 ft cable).
Thanks a lot,
Gilles
>
> I added RG223 to the coax loss chart I published a year ago.
> You can find it at:
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/coaxloss.pdf
>
> 223 is and "old" coax with PVC jacket . . . if it were my
> airplane, I'd use RG-400. If I had a scrap of RG-141 laying
> around (solid conductor version of 400), I'd use up the scrap
> before I bought new RG-400.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
It makes we wonder if the turn coordinator in the Navaids autopilot will
work in a tail dragger? Or should these be setup in the level and not worry
about them in the ground attitude?
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Canopy of Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt
question
>
> Dan,
>
> I wonder how it could know? I mean, even if it's in a vertical panel,
what
> about if you were in a climb, or a descent, or a turn. Assuming it's only
> important during startup, what about if you were starting on a slope? Or
in a
> tailwheel? No panel could be *exactly* vertical, could it?
>
> Perhaps it just means a grossly vertical panel, i.e. not a horizontal
panel.
> I'll be interested to hear a definitive answer.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Nev
>
> --
> Jodel D150, UK.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt
question
>
>
>
> >
> > Having heard only good things about Mid-Continent instruments, and
having
> > heard several negative comments about the Falcon turn coordinators, I
opted
> > to buy the Mid-Continent turn coordinator from Chief. My only concern
(so
> > far) is that on the back of the instrument it reads:
> >
> > "Calibrated for installation in vertical panel"
> >
> > Maybe I'm reading into it, but on my RV-7 the panel has an 8-degree
forward
> > tilt. Should I be concerned about this turn coordinator functioning
> > properly? It's my assumption that only *attitude* gyros need to be
> > specially calibrated for the 8-degree tilt (so the horizon lines up
> > properly). Is that the case?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
T&B's and TC's depend on being mounted a certain way - the
axis of the gyro with respect to the motion of the airplane.
The orientation of the single axis gyro effects to which axis
(yaw, roll, pitch) it is coupled. The difference between a T&B
and a TC is that the TC gets coupled to the roll axis of the
aircraft by being tipped off-axis from vertical. This means
that rolling into a bank without also turning will cause a TC
to respond, but a T&B will ignore it - no coupling.
Unless you are planning to do IFR while in a 3-point attitude
(while its foggy at the airport?), neither instrument will care
a whit the orientation of the instrument while on the ground
(taildragger/tricycle). Once you are flying, then it will matter.
I have to imagine the both the T&B and the TC will behave slightly
differently when in a low airspeed climb because the orientation
of the yaw axis is slightly different then when in cruise.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> It makes we wonder if the turn coordinator in the Navaids autopilot will
> work in a tail dragger? Or should these be setup in the level and not
> worry about them in the ground attitude?
>
> Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
> Working on Canopy of Finish Kit
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder cable question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Talk of a quick answer !
>Now a naive question : does a 30 db/100 ft loss give a 6 db loss for 20 ft ?
yes. RG-400 is about 24 db/100 ft at GPS frequencies. 20ft
of cable yields 1/5th that amount or 4.8 db.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>......Canting the gyro makes it act like a Turn Coordinator. That is all a TC
is.....
>
However, canting can be done a few ways. Among others, the gyro can be
canted normal way where the rear part of the instrument (that is the
part pointing in the direction of the flight) goes down and the dial up,
or it can be canted the other way i.e. rear part of the instrument moved
up in respect to the dial
All right, all right, I know that nobody cants panels the last and
wrong way, but this is how they tilt a gyro in order to make it into a
Turn Coordinator. In the Turn Coordinator when the left wing goes down,
even before the turn started, the gyro "feels" and shows it as a left
turn because of the canting. Easy to see that effect of the wing going
down if you imagine the gyro at an extreme and never used cant angle of
90 deg,. i.e. rear of the instrument up, and the dial down. That gives
the left turn signal a little before the start of the turn, which is a
good info, but it makes the indicator more nervous.
But look what happens if you mount the gyro in a normally canted panel.
Now if the left wing drops down, even before the left turn started, the
gyro feels it and shows it as the RIGHT turn. Eventually, the indicator
will go left as you develop the left turn. That makes the gyro behaving
in a slow, lazy and confusing way, with all these symptoms increasing
as you increase the canting angle. Not a good idea.
However, if you have a Turn Coordinator, where the gyro is internally
canted "rear up" around 30 deg, or more, and if you mounted it in a
normally canted panel tilted by a few degrees, you would still have a
Turn Coordinator with a slightly less effective internal canting . If
you increased the canting angle of the panel to an unlikely 30 degrees,
you would find that your turn coordinator behaves like a normal Turn and
Bank, because the canting of the panel cancelled the internal canting of
the gyro. You would detect confusing indications only if you used a
panel with a huge canting of over 30 degrees
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
In a message dated 6/4/03 12:02:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
krasinski(at)direcway.com writes:
> However, if you have a Turn Coordinator, where the gyro is internally
> canted "rear up" around 30 deg, or more, and if you mounted it in a
> normally canted panel tilted by a few degrees, you would still have a
> Turn Coordinator with a slightly less effective internal canting . If
> you increased the canting angle of the panel to an unlikely 30 degrees,
> you would find that your turn coordinator behaves like a normal Turn and
> Bank, because the canting of the panel cancelled the internal canting of
> the gyro. You would detect confusing indications only if you used a
> panel with a huge canting of over 30 degrees
> Jerzy
>
Sounds fair to me!
I still think the only proper use for a canted gyro is as a sensor for a
cheap autopilot. It makes a lousy flight instrument. Just one guys opinion!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | flap circuit using DPDT relay |
Bob,
I'm wondering if you have seen this design before:
http://www.infinityaerospace.com/Flap.pdf
I bought the cheap Radio Shack relay
(http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218) and wired it up
according to the drawing and it works perfectly. I'm just curious if you
see any potential snags by using that design.
Thanks,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt |
question
>
>In a message dated 6/3/03 5:29:06 PM Central Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com
>writes:
>
> > "Calibrated for installation in vertical panel"
> >
>Good Evening Once Again Dan,
>
>I obviously didn't read your original message correctly prior to sending my
>message. You have a Turn Coordinator and not a Turn and Bank.
>
>My message was specifically oriented toward proper mounting of the T&B not a
>TC. However, the same thing applies.
>
>It should be mounted as the manufacturer intended. You can purchase rate
>instruments that are calibrated for slanted panels. Since the TC never
>tells the
>truth anyway, I guess mounting it correctly would not be as important as is
>mounting a T&B correctly . . .
Bob, I understand your preference for pure-yaw rate
sensing as a panel display for turning rate indicator
but I need to call you on the rhetoric . . . a turn
coordinator is just as "truthful" as any other instrument
on the panel in terms of what it's designed to do.
Successful integration of the turn coordinator into
nearly 100,000 light aircraft over decades speaks
to it's utility for service as both wing leveling
and as a panel display for hand flying the airplane
sans gyros.
I've shot many a no-gyro approach behind a turn-coordinator
and ridden shotgun for other pilots while they
honed their skills at the same task. While performance of
this instrument might be considered a compromise of
features found in rate gyros of old, I'll suggest that
the industry has demonstrated the "losses" to be
minimal in exchange for useful "additions".
I've flown both instruments and my personal preference
favors the turn coordinator. Individual preferences
aside, may I suggest it's disingenuous to label
the turn-coordinator as untruthful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 10nF mylar cap |
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 10nF mylar cap.
>
> 1 nF is 1000 pF and .001 mF
>
> So the 10 nF capacitor callout can also be written
> as .01 mF or 10,000 pF . . . and Radio Shack has
> had them since day-one.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Minor nit, Bob.
1nf is 1000pF or 0.001uF (the lower case m is reserved for
milli, while lower case u is used for micro)
MikeM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt question |
In a message dated 6/4/03 10:00:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> I've flown both instruments and my personal preference
> favors the turn coordinator. Individual preferences
> aside, may I suggest it's disingenuous to label
> the turn-coordinator as untruthful.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Good Morning Bob,
We have been through this before and I am afraid we will have to agree to
disagree.
When I am rolling down a runway after making a turn onto the runway just
before takeoff and my rate gyro shows an indication that I am either turning or
rolling while the airplane is going straight with the wheels are solidly on the
ground I think it is fair to say that the instrument is not telling the truth.
When I have to check the indication of other instruments to tell whether that
instrument is telling me that I am rolling or yawing, I feel the instrument
is not telling me the truth.
If I am flying a nice knife edge, the instrument will be telling the truth as
far as the fact that I am neither rolling nor yawing, but if there is any
sense in my head that it is depicting a wings level situation, it is definitely
not presenting any indication that is consistent with the current state of the
flight.
I think I mentioned early on that I installed TCs in all of my training
airplanes when the unit first became available. I had applauded it's use as a
low
cost sensor for autopilots and felt that it would make a good instrument to
aid in partial panel flying. It was only after several years of use that I
gradually came to my present position. I think the TC is largely responsible for
the plethora of accidents we have experienced when pilots are presented with a
partial panel scenario.
I wholeheartedly agree that a competent pilot can use either successfully. I
now feel that a pilot trained and competent in the use of a T&B is more
likely to retain that competency than one who has been initially trained in the
use
of the TC.
That has to do with the mindset of the pilot and how both instruments
integrate into normal everyday flying, but that is an even longer story and I will
let it go for now.
Your's for differences of opinion.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
I'd like to echo some of the recent sentiments regarding dsub connectors and
crimp pins. I've found them to be very user friendly.
My question is about the shells for the connectors. In a couple of places
behind my panel there's just not room to use the shell. I've supported the
wires next to the connectors to relieve any stress. Is this an ok practice?
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo in the elevator of my
Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a modified dsub connector to hook up
the servo, but I'm not sure how to best connect the led trim gauge and the
switch in the panel.
Both of these items mount from the front of the panel, making it difficult
to install and remove them on a temporary basis during panel construction.
I suppose I could just connect them on a temp basis for testing using wire
nuts, then butt splice them during final panel installation, but I'm
curious as to how others may have dealt with this situation.
thanks,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo in the elevator of my
>Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a modified dsub connector to hook up
>the servo, but I'm not sure how to best connect the led trim gauge and the
>switch in the panel.
>Both of these items mount from the front of the panel, making it difficult
>to install and remove them on a temporary basis during panel construction.
>I suppose I could just connect them on a temp basis for testing using wire
>nuts, then butt splice them during final panel installation, but I'm
>curious as to how others may have dealt with this situation.
Why not put connectors on these leads too?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: d sub shells |
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>I'd like to echo some of the recent sentiments regarding dsub connectors and
>crimp pins. I've found them to be very user friendly.
>
>My question is about the shells for the connectors. In a couple of places
>behind my panel there's just not room to use the shell. I've supported the
>wires next to the connectors to relieve any stress. Is this an ok practice?
Sure. Our targets use shell-less d-subs in some places and
we passed some pretty rough environmental stress tests. If
the connector is used in a system that would give you
heartburn if it quit, then you could sho-goo the backside
of the connector . . BUT ONLY AFTER you're sure it's
wired correctly. It's VERY hard to move pins around after
they're potted into place.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | BNC soldier style connectors |
Bob,
I want to use soldier style BNC connectors with RG400 coax. A Jim Weir article
said DigiKey sells AMP male soldier style connectors under part no. A24424-ND.
However, on their website, the picture looks like it has a crimped collar on
the coax cable and the discription says "CONN PLUG BNC RG174, 188 CRMP TIN"
and customer service wasn't knowledgeable. Is this what I want or do you know
the correct PN if it isn't?
Thanks,
Rick Fogerson
RV3 wiring
Boise, ID.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
I installed both elevator and aileron trims in my
plane. I mounted the two indicators and the aileron
trim switch on a removable sub panel. Everything
connects with a DB15 connector.
See:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/DCP01826.JPG
The MAC accessories are next to the compass.
Michel
--- Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com> wrote:
> Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo
> in the elevator of my
> Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a modified
> dsub connector to hook up
> the servo, but I'm not sure how to best connect the
> led trim gauge and the
> switch in the panel.
> Both of these items mount from the front of the
> panel, making it difficult
> to install and remove them on a temporary basis
> during panel construction.
> I suppose I could just connect them on a temp basis
> for testing using wire
> nuts, then butt splice them during final panel
> installation, but I'm
> curious as to how others may have dealt with this
> situation.
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
I found the 26 gauge wire a little small for crimp connectors and you
are right, the D-sub pins in behind the panel seem unnecessary. I just
soldered these connections and covered them with shrink.
I know, I know......I used the "s" word. However, in the case of these
small wires, it works fine.
Randy
F1 Rocket #95
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Dickson <robert@thenews-journal.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2003 1:34 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: MAC trim gauge & switch connection
> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo in the elevator
> of my
> Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a modified dsub connector
> to hook up
> the servo, but I'm not sure how to best connect the led trim gauge
> and the
> switch in the panel.
> Both of these items mount from the front of the panel, making it
> difficultto install and remove them on a temporary basis during
> panel construction.
> I suppose I could just connect them on a temp basis for testing
> using wire
> nuts, then butt splice them during final panel installation, but I'm
> curious as to how others may have dealt with this situation.
>
> thanks,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
>
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= !! NEWish !!
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= List Related Information
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
I wired the MAC with a 5 pin Deans connector. These are gold plated pins
with a very positive connections, easy to install and readily available.
(R/C hobby stuff)After final connection the entire assembly will be
protected with an appropriate sized piece of heat shrink.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MAC trim gauge & switch connection
>
> FWIW, I'm planning on using individual D-sub pins/sockets (available from
> B&C) for cases like this where I need removable connectors on 24 AWG
wires.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
I used a 5-pin flat Molex-type connector along with a single pin connector
for the dimmer for each indicator. The trim indicator dimmer gets pulled
high to dim the LEDs so it's connected to the panel light switch in parallel
with the wire to the panel dimmer. The single pin connector made the harness
routing a little cleaner.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> --> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo in the
> elevator of my Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a
> modified dsub connector to hook up the servo, but I'm not
> sure how to best connect the led trim gauge and the switch in
> the panel. Both of these items mount from the front of the
> panel, making it difficult to install and remove them on a
> temporary basis during panel construction. I suppose I could
> just connect them on a temp basis for testing using wire
> nuts, then butt splice them during final panel installation,
> but I'm curious as to how others may have dealt with this situation.
>
> thanks,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC soldier style connectors |
>
>Bob,
>I want to use soldier style BNC connectors with RG400 coax. A Jim Weir
>article said DigiKey sells AMP male soldier style connectors under part
>no. A24424-ND. However, on their website, the picture looks like it has a
>crimped collar on the coax cable and the discription says "CONN PLUG BNC
>RG174, 188 CRMP TIN" and customer service wasn't knowledgeable. Is this
>what I want or do you know the correct PN if it isn't?
> Thanks,
You want the military designation UG-88/U which is Amphenol's
p/n 31-202 and Digikey's catalog number ARF1040-ND
Installation instructions can be on page 299 of this document.
http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/AssemblyInstructions/bnc.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
Greg
being fairly unsure of myself in matters electrical, I'm trying to
understand exactly what you mean by this statement.
> The trim indicator dimmer gets pulled
> high to dim the LEDs so it's connected to the panel light switch in parallel
> with the wire to the panel dimmer.
> Regards,
> Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
I gather you've got a separate dimmer just for the LEDs. Are they
unacceptably bright if undimmed at night? I've only got elevator trim and it
seems like a hassle to install a dimmer just for that one gauge if it really
isn't necessary.
thanks for your help,
Robert Dickson
RV-6A electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
><robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
>
> >> I'm installing a mac/Ray Allen elevator trim servo in the elevator of my
> >> Rv-6A. I've read Bob's article on using a modified dsub connector to
> hook up
> >> the servo, but I'm not sure how to best connect the led trim gauge and the
> >> switch in the panel.
> >> Both of these items mount from the front of the panel, making it difficult
> >> to install and remove them on a temporary basis during panel construction.
> >> I suppose I could just connect them on a temp basis for testing using wire
> >> nuts, then butt splice them during final panel installation, but I'm
> >> curious as to how others may have dealt with this situation.
> >
> > Why not put connectors on these leads too?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>what kind of connectors? will shrink-tubed d-sub pins be ok, as Dan
>suggested?
I prefer d-subs for this kind of application. But individually
covered d-sub pins works too. What you don't get is pull-apart
resistance . . . but then wire bundles aren't flight control
cables. They're not hard to install so that they don't have
tension on them.
When you use individually covered d-sub mates, put an overall
cover of heat shrink over the array of connections. Then use
a nice, tight string-tie or tye-wrap at each end of cover
to provide some pull-apart protection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Merging wiring - FWF |
>
>Bob Hi! from UK
>
>Did some light reading of Aero Connection Manual this morning over breakfast
>to establish some guidance over wiring compatibility. Very wholesome! Still
>need your words of wisdom!
>
>In an effort to keep efficient and 'tidy' Wiring, can you advise or confirm
>that it it probably be OK to merge various Instrument Sensor wires in 22 AWG
>unsceened with the Magneto screened wires (18 AWG) into a single loom,
>separating again once through Firewall conduit. I have 22 AWG Screened if
>more suitable.
>
>Regards
>
>Gerry
There is no advantage in adding shields to any wires that share
the bundle with magneto p-leads already shielded. Be
sure to hook up the shields as depicted in several places on the
Z-figures . . . ground the shield at the engine end only and use
the shield to provide a ground for the magneto control switch.
Other wires that might share wire routing and/or firewall
penetrations with the p-leads need not be shielded unless
the installation diagrams call for shielded wires.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
Robert,
There is a dimming function built into the indicator. It's a day/night mode
affair, not variable. It's counter intuitive to me but when you apply power
to the dimmer wire, the LEDs go dim. I hooked it up so the panel light
switch provides the power to the LED dimmer. I've just got 2 wires from the
switch, one to the indicator and the other to a rheostat dimmer that feeds
all the other panel lights. You can power the LED dimmer from any source,
even a dedicated switch. I figured when it was dark enough to light the
panel I'd want the LED's dimmed too. I'm somewhat electron challenged as
well and it took a while to decipher MAC's wiring diagram but maybe this
will help.
Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert Dickson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 3:46 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MAC trim gauge & switch connection
>
>
> --> <robert@thenews-journal.com>
>
> Greg
> being fairly unsure of myself in matters electrical, I'm
> trying to understand exactly what you mean by this statement.
>
> > The trim indicator dimmer gets pulled
> > high to dim the LEDs so it's connected to the panel light switch in
> > parallel with the wire to the panel dimmer.
>
> > Regards,
> > Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
>
> I gather you've got a separate dimmer just for the LEDs. Are
> they unacceptably bright if undimmed at night? I've only got
> elevator trim and it seems like a hassle to install a dimmer
> just for that one gauge if it really isn't necessary.
>
> thanks for your help,
>
> Robert Dickson
> RV-6A electrical
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | MAC trim gauge & switch connection |
>
>Robert,
>
>There is a dimming function built into the indicator. It's a day/night mode
>affair, not variable. It's counter intuitive to me but when you apply power
>to the dimmer wire, the LEDs go dim. I hooked it up so the panel light
>switch provides the power to the LED dimmer. I've just got 2 wires from the
>switch, one to the indicator and the other to a rheostat dimmer that feeds
>all the other panel lights. You can power the LED dimmer from any source,
>even a dedicated switch. I figured when it was dark enough to light the
>panel I'd want the LED's dimmed too. I'm somewhat electron challenged as
>well and it took a while to decipher MAC's wiring diagram but maybe this
>will help.
Two level dimming is not uncommon for something that is
basically illuminated all the time . . . like an LED
bar graph. To be visible in sunlight, one generally
designs for the LEDs to run max bright . . . which
would be too bright for the dark cockpit. So . . .
the "dim" wire is exactly that . . . a wire that
tells the indicator to go into the dim mode. Depending
on how sophisticated their input signal conditioning
the indicator may switch from bright to dim for any
voltage that appears on the DIM COMMAND wire.
This would let you hook the DIM COMMAND wire to a string
of dimmed panel lights such that any time they are ON
at any intensity, the trim indicator goes to the dim
mode. Given that the Ray Allen installation drawing
calls for hooking DIM COMMAND to a "hard" 14v upstream
of any dimmer control suggests that this is not the case.
If you use B&C dimmers in the recommended configuration,
there is NEVER less than 4 volts on any lamps . . . the
system is turned OFF by max counter clockwise rotation
of dimmer knob which simply reduces the panel lamps
to minimum voltage for any usable light output . . .
quite dim. If the Ray Allen indicator used a sophisticated
sensor with a wide voltage range, then it would probably
not go to the "day-bright" mode when panel lamps are
reduced only down to 4v.
Suggest you consider hooking the DIM COMMAND line to
some other night lighting circuit like nav lights.
Any time the nav lights are on, the indicator
intensity goes to dim.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
>
>Bob,
>
>I've been following the thread about the optimum ground plane for the
>transponder. What is the optimum diameter for a circular ground
>plane? I'd like to mount the antenna on a 7" diameter aileron bellcrank
>access plate on the bottom of the wing of my Glasair. Others have done
>this, but I'll figure out something else if you think I should.
The "optimum" tuned ground plane is same radius as height of
antenna . . . or about 5.2" diameter for transponder. But
it will probably work just fine on the access plate too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Power buss feed connection |
RE: Power buss feed connection
Bob or anyone, what is the preferred method for connecting the primary +
feed to the main buss or other power buss? As I see it, one could connect
it to one of the PIDG and put a large rated fuse in it or is it better to
connect it to the metal screw post at the end of the buss? What other use
could the metal screw post be used for?
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Starting to work with Bob's power busses
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Wilson <pwilson(at)climber.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Power buss feed connection |
Or one could get the male faston adapter meant to be used for the battery bolt.
It has three tabs and one big slot for a big battery bolt. For use with smaller
bolts we use on the airplane one could solder the correct ring terminal to
get rid of the slot. I think I got them at either Radio Shack or at an Auto supply
place.
Paul
========
>
>RE: Power buss feed connection
>
>Bob or anyone, what is the preferred method for connecting the primary +
>feed to the main buss or other power buss? As I see it, one could connect
>it to one of the PIDG and put a large rated fuse in it or is it better to
>connect it to the metal screw post at the end of the buss? What other use
>could the metal screw post be used for?
>
>Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
>Starting to work with Bob's power busses
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Mid-Continent turn coordinator -- tilt |
Cheers,
Just so's it doesn't appear that Ol' Bob is alone in the Turn
and Bank persuasion, I heartily agree with his stand and will have but a T&B
in my Europa for coordinated footwork (and perhaps the odd clumsy stumble
out of cloud).
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
> The "optimum" tuned ground plane is same radius as height of
> antenna . . . or about 5.2" diameter for transponder. But
> it will probably work just fine on the access plate too.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
I'm afraid my transponder ground plane is 5.5" diameter. Will that make a
big difference ? Shall I have to make a new one ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Another shielding question |
Bob:
Hoping for your expert opinion. I am using a SoftCom ATC-2P intercom with a
KX-125 Navcom. The factory prewired harness for the intercom has only
unshielded wires. I have installed it as received but I have routed the mic and
phone jack wiring so as to keep them at least 2 inches away from other wires
except for a span of about 3 inches where all the wiring passes through one panel.
Now I am installing the KX-125, for which I have to fabricate the harness,
and the wiring diagram calls for shielding on the connections to the intercom.
This would require disassembly and rewiring of the installed intercom harness,
a tough job because I potted the backside of the connector.
My question is, if I continue to keep the audio and mic key wires separate
from other wires, is it reasonable to expect that I can forego shielding on
these lines, or should I "bite the bullet" and rework the intercom harness now?
BTW, I am using your single point "forest of tabs" for all grounds, including
avionics.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward and finishing electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron & Jean" <byronjean(at)ticon.net> |
Bob & List:
I'm looking for a quality ratchet crimper and lugs for #2 & #4 welding cable. I'm
trying not to buy the real expensive ones, unless I have too. Any recommendations
would be appreciated.
Thanks
Byron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | peter goudinoff <peterg(at)dakotacom.net> |
| Subject: | ground plane for comm. |
Lancair Legacy still early in construction; only thing done in cockpit
so far (besides loadpads) is seat reinforcement and canopy latch. q:
should I install the comm. ant. groundplane (there's already a slot for
it on the belly) now or wait 'til later?
peter goudinoff
L2K #200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Crimper |
>
>Bob & List:
>I'm looking for a quality ratchet crimper and lugs for #2 & #4 welding
>cable. I'm trying not to buy the real expensive ones, unless I have too.
>Any recommendations would be appreciated.
>Thanks
>Byron
I solder this size terminal. There are so few terminals to put
on and good tools are expensive. There's an article on how
to solder the big wires on my website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
I own about a dozen crimp tools but nothing bigger
than the 10-12AWG PIDG terminal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> > The "optimum" tuned ground plane is same radius as height of
> > antenna . . . or about 5.2" diameter for transponder. But
> > it will probably work just fine on the access plate too.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I'm afraid my transponder ground plane is 5.5" diameter. Will that make a
>big difference ? Shall I have to make a new one ?
Nope . . . keep on truck'n
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
I have an 8 day clock that wants 5V for the internal light. I have a 12v
airplane.
I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure out
how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through the
equation?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
In a message dated 6/5/03 10:34:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
richard(at)riley.net writes:
> I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure out
>
> how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through the
> equation?
>
Just curious, why not use a ZENER?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
>
>I have an 8 day clock that wants 5V for the internal light. I have a 12v
>airplane.
>
>I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure out
>how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through the
>equation?
Light bulbs have a very steep positive temperature
coefficient of resistance. The resistance reading
you'll get with an ohmmeter will be much lower
than actual operating resistance.
You need to attach the clock to a 5v power supply
and measure the current with the lamp operating.
Then subtract 5v from 14v to get the resistor drop.
Your formula is R=E/I so divide the voltage drop
by measured current to yield appropriate size resistor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
V=IR is the start
You want 5 volts across the clock, so measure its resistance. Now you
know Vclock and Rclock, so calculate Iclock from equation. Say Rclock
is 5ohms, the Iclock would be 1A.
Now we know the current through the circuit needs to be 1 Amp, and we
need to drop 12-5=7 volts across the other resistor. So, Vres is 7
volts, Iclock=Iresistor=1A, so again, using the equation we can find the
R value you need is 7ohms.
Size your resistor power by P=I
2 * R, so 1*1*7, or 7watts in the case.
Oversize it by a factor of about 2 I'd say to be safe.
Also, you might want to consider 14.4 volts in these calcs instead of
12, depending on how you set up your electrical system.
These are all hypothetical, but should help you get it figured out.
Basically, sum of all current in and out of a node is zero, and sum of
all voltages around a loop is also zero. Hopefully you can see these
laws at work in the above example.
Another way would be to just use a small 7805 5v voltage regulator that
takes 12 in and would put out enough 5V to run your clock.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
richard(at)riley.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: V=IR problem
I have an 8 day clock that wants 5V for the internal light. I have a
12v
airplane.
I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure
out
how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through
the
equation?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
>Just curious, why not use a ZENER?
My understanding was that a Zener wouldn't let me dim the internal lighting
with the rest of the panel. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
If I string together 3 D cells, would that be close enough to 5 v to get an
accurate voltage drop?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
Actually, I've found it difficult to reliably measure the resistance
of a lamp directly with an ohmmeter - if it's LED, you won't get a
meaningful answer, and if it's incandescent, the cold resistance is
different from the hot (lighted) resistance. Also, if there's any
electronics in it at all (apparently not, by "8-day clock" I take it to
mean it's mechanical, only the light needs electrical), I would not
depend solely on a dropping resistor anyway, I'd want a 5.1v Zener in
there too.
But, given a mechanical clock, I'd simply first find the current it uses
at 5 volts (use a milliammeter and 4 NiCads or NiMHs), then divide that
into 9 (14-volt supply - 5-volt desired = 9-volt drop)... Example: let's
say you find it uses 50 milliamps (.05A) - you want to drop 9 volts so
that would be 9/.05 or 180 ohms. Wattage is I*I*R, or 1/20*1/20*180 in
this case... about 1/2 watt so make it a 1-watt resistor and make sure
it has a bit of room to breathe. Maybe it would just be better to swap
the 5-volt for a 12-volt lamp if possible?
-John R.
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
>I have an 8 day clock that wants 5V for the internal light. I have a 12v
>airplane.
>
>I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure out
>how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through the
>equation?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
In a message dated 6/5/03 11:17:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
richard(at)riley.net writes:
> My understanding was that a Zener wouldn't let me dim the internal lighting
>
> with the rest of the panel. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
>
Good Evening Richard,
I am definitely one of those electrically challenged types, but I have used
Zeners for dimming purposes. What is so nice about a Zener is that it drops
the voltage to the required voltage regardless of what the load is. I guess I
should say; as long as the load is within the capacity of the zener.
The first time I used one was to dim a set of four GPS annunciator lights.
Since they were sometimes all on at the same time and other times only one or
two were on, a resistor wouldn't work. The zener did the job perfectly. I
think it is all just magic!
Surely, some of the folks on this list will explain it much better than I
can.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
You're right about the zener cancelling out the dimming to a large
degree - as for 3 D-cells, it's close enough (4.5 volts) but 4 NiCads
are closer (NiCads start out near 1.4 volts, but quickly drop to 1.25
under about any load)
-John R.
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>>Just curious, why not use a ZENER?
>>
>>
>
>My understanding was that a Zener wouldn't let me dim the internal lighting
>with the rest of the panel. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
>
>If I string together 3 D cells, would that be close enough to 5 v to get an
>accurate voltage drop?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
Bob, that's indeed a great way to independently dim a set of lamps,
independent of load... but I think Richard has the opposite requirement
- a fixed load that he wants to dependently dim with the master dimmer.
A zener won't work for that.
-John R.
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 6/5/03 11:17:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
>richard(at)riley.net writes:
>
>
>
>>My understanding was that a Zener wouldn't let me dim the internal lighting
>>
>>with the rest of the panel. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Good Evening Richard,
>
>I am definitely one of those electrically challenged types, but I have used
>Zeners for dimming purposes. What is so nice about a Zener is that it drops
>the voltage to the required voltage regardless of what the load is. I guess I
>should say; as long as the load is within the capacity of the zener.
>
>The first time I used one was to dim a set of four GPS annunciator lights.
>Since they were sometimes all on at the same time and other times only one or
>two were on, a resistor wouldn't work. The zener did the job perfectly. I
>think it is all just magic!
>
>Surely, some of the folks on this list will explain it much better than I
>can.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power buss feed connection |
Larry,
Use the post with a ring terminal and a locking nut or lock washer. That is what
that post is for. It would be useless to put the current for the whole fuse
block through a big fuse: the fuse protects nothing. Also, the PIDG connectors
may be useful to 20 amps, but your fuse block could draw more. The ring terminal
is the appropriate connection here. If you wish to protect the feed wire
from the contactor to your fuse block, you could use a fusable link if it
exceeds the 6 inch rule. Bob Nucholls does not worry much about exceeding the
6 inch rule according to a recent post, so a longer wire to the contactor with
attention paid to avoid chaffing the insulation should be OK.
Jim Foerster J400, 50%
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ground plane |
> >I'm afraid my transponder ground plane is 5.5" diameter. Will that make a
> >big difference ? Shall I have to make a new one ?
>
> Nope . . . keep on truck'n
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
Why not get a 12 volt bulb?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: V=IR problem
>
> >
> >I have an 8 day clock that wants 5V for the internal light. I have a 12v
> >airplane.
> >
> >I know if measure the clock's resistance with an ohm meter I can figure
out
> >how big a resistor to put in line with it. Can someone walk me through
the
> >equation?
>
> Light bulbs have a very steep positive temperature
> coefficient of resistance. The resistance reading
> you'll get with an ohmmeter will be much lower
> than actual operating resistance.
>
> You need to attach the clock to a 5v power supply
> and measure the current with the lamp operating.
> Then subtract 5v from 14v to get the resistor drop.
> Your formula is R=E/I so divide the voltage drop
> by measured current to yield appropriate size resistor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
In a message dated 6/5/03 11:52:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
jrourke@allied-computer.com writes:
> Bob, that's indeed a great way to independently dim a set of lamps,
> independent of load... but I think Richard has the opposite requirement
> - a fixed load that he wants to dependently dim with the master dimmer.
> A zener won't work for that.
>
> -John R.
>
Makes sense to me!
I hadn't picked up on that data correctly. I guess the dimming would have to
be separately supplied for the unit powered by the zener. More complications.
Thanks for the explanation.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Crimper |
Byron
I use a T&B # TBM5. It comes with several dies. It works with there color
keyed lugs.
Best regards
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron & Jean" <byronjean(at)ticon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ratchet Crimper
>
> Bob & List:
> I'm looking for a quality ratchet crimper and lugs for #2 & #4 welding
cable. I'm trying not to buy the real expensive ones, unless I have too. Any
recommendations would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Byron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: V=IR problem |
>
>In a message dated 6/5/03 11:17:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
>richard(at)riley.net writes:
>
> > My understanding was that a Zener wouldn't let me dim the internal
> lighting
> >
> > with the rest of the panel. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
> >
>
>Good Evening Richard,
>
>I am definitely one of those electrically challenged types, but I have used
>Zeners for dimming purposes. What is so nice about a Zener is that it drops
>the voltage to the required voltage regardless of what the load is. I
>guess I
>should say; as long as the load is within the capacity of the zener.
>
>The first time I used one was to dim a set of four GPS annunciator lights.
>Since they were sometimes all on at the same time and other times only one or
>two were on, a resistor wouldn't work. The zener did the job perfectly. I
>think it is all just magic!
>
>Surely, some of the folks on this list will explain it much better than I
>can.
A zener has a relatively constant voltage drop. So, Consider
a 5v lamp in series with a 9v resistor to run full bright from
a 14v supply. At 14v, all lamps will be max bright.
Reducing dimming supply voltage by say, 2 volts, will drop
the supply to 14v string by (2/14)*100 or 14%. Voltage on
the 5v string will go down by 2v as well. (2/5)*100 is
40%. Reducing dimming supply still further to say 9V will
have the 14v string about half-bright, the 5v string
will be dark.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power buss feed connection |
>
>Or one could get the male faston adapter meant to be used for the battery
>bolt. It has three tabs and one big slot for a big battery bolt. For use
>with smaller bolts we use on the airplane one could solder the correct
>ring terminal to get rid of the slot. I think I got them at either Radio
>Shack or at an Auto supply place.
> Paul
>========
>
>
> >
> >RE: Power buss feed connection
> >
> >Bob or anyone, what is the preferred method for connecting the primary +
> >feed to the main buss or other power buss? As I see it, one could connect
> >it to one of the PIDG and put a large rated fuse in it or is it better to
> >connect it to the metal screw post at the end of the buss? What other use
> >could the metal screw post be used for?
> >
> >Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
> >Starting to work with Bob's power busses
The treaded post on the end of the fuseblock was designed
to be the feedpoint for the bus. If you perceive some design
advantage in an alternative configuration, can you support
it with a dissertation of simple ideas upon which the
whole is founded?
Not trying to be preachy or sanctimonious here. In fact,
a good designer has to acknowledge that there could be
a suite of configurations based on good assemblage
of simple ideas. It then becomes a trade-off based on
complexity, cost of ownership, efficiency, etc. There may
a number of ways to skin a cat but one of them will be most
attractive depending on circumstances other than skinning
technique.
So, if you have an alternative configuration to consider,
pull together the underlying pieces that hold it up.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Crimper |
Byron,
Although not exactly what you asked for (a ratchet crimper), a Nicopress
tool does a good job on the big terminals.
--
Joe
Long-EZ 821RP
Clarkston, WA
[original message]
==================
Bob & List:
I'm looking for a quality ratchet crimper and lugs for #2 & #4 welding
cable. I'm trying not to buy the real expensive ones, unless I have too.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks
Byron
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | crimping large ring terminals |
This may be a silly question, but what tool is used to crimp terminals for
wires larger than 10 AWG?
I have a vinyl insulated ring terminal for a #8 wire (source: Van's basic
wiring kit) but no tool (that I know of) to crimp it with. Should I scrap
it and solder/heat-shrink it instead? I'm just as happy doing that if I
have to buy YET another expensive tool.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Crimper |
I was able to rent some from the local electrical supply house.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Dubner
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ratchet Crimper
Byron,
Although not exactly what you asked for (a ratchet crimper), a Nicopress
tool does a good job on the big terminals.
--
Joe
Long-EZ 821RP
Clarkston, WA
[original message]
==================
Bob & List:
I'm looking for a quality ratchet crimper and lugs for #2 & #4 welding
cable. I'm trying not to buy the real expensive ones, unless I have too.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks
Byron
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | crimping large ring terminals |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
Bob's solder and heat shrink method works extremely well for 8WAG to 2AWG and is
simple, effective and perfectly acceptable for our aeroplanes. I completed
mine (2AWG and 4AWG) last weekend and saved $300-$600 on hand crimpers. Now, if
you really desperately want to crimp, you can get it done, but remember to verify
clocking with the person doing your crimping.
Cheers
- Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Getting closer...
Seattle, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: crimping large ring terminals
This may be a silly question, but what tool is used to crimp terminals for
wires larger than 10 AWG?
I have a vinyl insulated ring terminal for a #8 wire (source: Van's basic
wiring kit) but no tool (that I know of) to crimp it with. Should I scrap
it and solder/heat-shrink it instead? I'm just as happy doing that if I
have to buy YET another expensive tool.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Since the subject of using zeners for dimming control is being
>discussed, could someone please offer an explanation of how they work?
>The little bit of research I have done says they are intentionally
>reverse-biased diodes that conduct when their rated voltage level is
>reached. If this is correct, how does this act like anything more than
>a switch with a voltage threshold?
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/robert.booth/uni/docs/Industrial%20Electronics.pdf
http://www.americanmicrosemi.com/tutorials/zener.htm
http://jever.phys.ualberta.ca/~gingrich/phys395/notes/node60.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/zener.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/zenereg.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/limiter.html#c1
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sealed coax connectors |
Hi Bob and all,
Found in old issues of Avionics magazine some adds from Pic wire. They talk
about sealed BNC and TNC connectors to prevent moisture problems.
Any opinions ?
Regards
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmfpublic(at)attbi.com |
| Subject: | Torque measurement with strain gauge |
Bob or anyone,
I'm installing a Blue Mountain EFIS and this allows me to set up 'instrument
gauges' with any label that I want, as long as I can get an analog voltage to
represent the measurement. I would like to measure HP output from the engine.
HP=(Torque)(RPM)/5252. Strain gauges are old technology with which I have no
experience. A strain gauge on the prop shaft is hard to interface. Power and
signal must pass either sliding rings and brushes :>(( or else use some
magnetic and optical coupling. However, strain gauges on the engine mount
would be easy to connect, but I'm not sure that I could separate torque moments
from the linear stresses of just holding the weight of the engine. I believe
that there are strain gauges with a 45 degree pattern that respond to torque
more than to linear stress, but I hardly know where to start reading. Or, has
anyone tried this and found that it is impossible? I did send off to Omega for
some literature. I envision building a Wheatstone bridge arrangement feeding
an instrumentation amplifier. Any thoughts/pearls/war stories?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
This months Circuit Cellar had an article about a
horsepower monitor for an automobile
http://www.circuitcellar.com/flash2002/second.htm
They used a RF link from the drive shaft to the
monitor CPU.
Something to think about, prop hub or something for
a light weight RF unit.
jmfpublic(at)attbi.com wrote:
>
> Bob or anyone,
> I'm installing a Blue Mountain EFIS and this allows me to set up 'instrument
> gauges' with any label that I want, as long as I can get an analog voltage to
> represent the measurement. I would like to measure HP output from the engine.
> HP=(Torque)(RPM)/5252. Strain gauges are old technology with which I have no
> experience. A strain gauge on the prop shaft is hard to interface. Power and
> signal must pass either sliding rings and brushes :>(( or else use some
> magnetic and optical coupling. However, strain gauges on the engine mount
> would be easy to connect, but I'm not sure that I could separate torque moments
> from the linear stresses of just holding the weight of the engine. I believe
> that there are strain gauges with a 45 degree pattern that respond to torque
> more than to linear stress, but I hardly know where to start reading. Or, has
> anyone tried this and found that it is impossible? I did send off to Omega for
> some literature. I envision building a Wheatstone bridge arrangement feeding
> an instrumentation amplifier. Any thoughts/pearls/war stories?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmfpublic(at)attbi.com |
(Aeroelectric-List)
| Subject: | Nav antenna next to Comm |
Bob, or anyone,
I have a Jabiru J400 with the comm antenna in the vertical fin, just ahead of
the rudder. There is a channel in the horizontal stabalizer where the elevator
lies with a perfect fit for some one inch wide brass strip, possibly 0.020
thick. This would give a broadband, low Q horizontally polarized antenna. My
receiver is a UPS SL-30, a modern design. Will I have cross-talk problems
transmitting on the comm frequencies while receiving VOR, or using the third
harmonic of the antenna for glide-slope?
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
The Vishay Measurements Group website has a vast quantity of info about
strain gauges. They sell Wheatstone bridge arrangements on a single guage.
Try:
http://www.vishay.com/brands/measurements_group/guide/guide.htm
I did a project with a Wheatstone on a prop shaft using radio to get the
signal off the shaft, but it was a pain. Slip rings can have noise problems.
If you cook up a easy way to do it, drop me a line .
Strain gauges on the motor mount tubes doesn't sound very practical.
Dan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Shielding question |
Bob:
Hoping for your expert opinion. I am using a SoftCom ATC-2P intercom with a
KX-125 Navcom. The factory prewired harness for the intercom has only
unshielded wires. I have installed it as received but I have routed the mic and
phone jack wiring so as to keep them at least 2 inches away from other wires
except for a span of about 3 inches where all the wiring passes through one panel.
Now I am installing the KX-125, for which I have to fabricate the harness,
and the wiring diagram calls for shielding on the connections to the intercom.
This would require disassembly and rewiring of the installed intercom harness.
My question is, if I keep the audio and mic key wires separate from other
wires, is it reasonable to expect that I can forego shielding on these lines, or
should I "bite the bullet" and rework the intercom harness now? BTW, I am
using your single point "forest of tabs" for all grounds, including avionics
grounds, except the strobes, nav lights and landing lights in the wing tips.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward and finishing electrical
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
In a message dated 6/6/2003 10:10:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmfpublic(at)attbi.com
writes:
> Or, has
> anyone tried this and found that it is impossible?
Good Morning jmf,
I don't believe anyone has found it to be impossible, but it has been tried before.
I am not sure who did it, though it might have been Texas Insruments and Al Hundere
may have been involved.
To the best of my recollection, it was in Texas and the strain gauges were affixed
to the engine mounts in a Beechcraft model 18. The circa was around 1960.
It was hoped that a low cost torquemeter could be developed.
The reports were favorable, but it never made it to market.
Maybe it is time to try again with modern technology, it might work great!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Wilson <pwilson(at)climber.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
>
>Bob or anyone,
>I'm installing a Blue Mountain EFIS and this allows me to set up 'instrument
>gauges' with any label that I want, as long as I can get an analog voltage to
>represent the measurement. I would like to measure HP output from the engine.
>HP=(Torque)(RPM)/5252. Strain gauges are old technology with which I have no
>experience. A strain gauge on the prop shaft is hard to interface. Power and
>signal must pass either sliding rings and brushes :>(( or else use some
>magnetic and optical coupling. However, strain gauges on the engine mount
>would be easy to connect, but I'm not sure that I could separate torque moments
>from the linear stresses of just holding the weight of the engine. I believe
>that there are strain gauges with a 45 degree pattern that respond to torque
>more than to linear stress, but I hardly know where to start reading. Or, has
>anyone tried this and found that it is impossible? I did send off to Omega for
>some literature. I envision building a Wheatstone bridge arrangement feeding
>an instrumentation amplifier. Any thoughts/pearls/war stories?
=========
Why not just buy an automotive gadget that gives direct readout of acceleration,
horsepower plus other things. Pretty simple just turn it on and read the numbers
while in motion. No wires to connect.
Many outfits sell the gadgets. Do a Google search and find one to fit your needs/desires. Start with www.gtimer.com
Paul
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crow Bar OV Protection |
Hi Bob,
I am installing your Crow Bar OV Module and was wondering if it would be okay to
use a 7 amp breaker instead of a 5 amp? The smallest gauge wire in the circuit
is 16 G except for the OV module wire which appears to be smaller. I already
have a 7 amp breaker available in the panel, do I need to replace it with
a 5 or can I just use it?
Thanks,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Head" <banana(at)atlantic.net> |
Hi,
I am new to the list. I am building a Cozy MK4. I have seen some wire labels
that are printed on shrink tube. Are these labels available or do you need
some sort of "printer" to make them?
Thanks
Dean Head
Cozy MK4 #1040
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crow Bar OV Protection |
Hey guys never mind. Dad had a 5 amp breaker in his 60 year collection of
parts!
Thanks,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crow Bar OV Protection
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I am installing your Crow Bar OV Module and was wondering if it would be
okay to use a 7 amp breaker instead of a 5 amp? The smallest gauge wire in
the circuit is 16 G except for the OV module wire which appears to be
smaller. I already have a 7 amp breaker available in the panel, do I need
to replace it with a 5 or can I just use it?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
Check out www.kroy.com. They have several models (650 and 2500) of
shrink tube printers. I bought mine on Ebay for $80 including 6
cartridges of shrink tubing.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dean
Head
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire labels
Hi,
I am new to the list. I am building a Cozy MK4. I have seen some wire
labels
that are printed on shrink tube. Are these labels available or do you
need
some sort of "printer" to make them?
Thanks
Dean Head
Cozy MK4 #1040
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Dean,
At last, a question on this list I can answer!
I use MS word and a 6 point font to print a sheet of labels, then cut them
up with scissors and insert the label between the shrink tubing and the
wire. Just about any printer and plain paper works great.
Regards,
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Melvinke(at)aol.com |
The specific shrinktube and the Kroy printer necessary to produce the labels
are available at Graphic Products, ; 1-800-788-5572.
The printer is a Kroy K3000-PC; use Kroy 1/8" yellow shrinktubing. Incredible
job. Well worth the expense.
Kenneth Melvin
FEW Mustang N51KX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Hi Dean,
>At last, a question on this list I can answer!
>I use MS word and a 6 point font to print a sheet of labels, then cut them
>up with scissors and insert the label between the shrink tubing and the
>wire. Just about any printer and plain paper works great.
>Regards,
>John Slade
For an illustration of how this works, see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816c
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed coax connectors |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>Found in old issues of Avionics magazine some adds from Pic wire. They talk
>about sealed BNC and TNC connectors to prevent moisture problems.
>Any opinions ?
>
>Regards
>Gilles
Some offerings in BNC connectors have gaskets in them to reduce
probability of splash getting into the connector but NONE are
gas tight . . . meaning that environmental circulation of moisture
due to atmospheric pressure changes WILL happen.
I wouldn't make any special effort to buy a super-whizzy coax
connector for an OBAM project . . .
Now, if it's a taxpayer funded military project, then the
sky's the limit. You can go for gold plated too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage
switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I
want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with the
red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the
three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Circuit breaker recommendation |
Hi All,
I am going to use Bob's OVP module and I will need to buy a circuit breaker. Can
someone make a recommendation for a CB. A specific brand, type number & suplier
would be helpful.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit breaker recommendation |
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I am going to use Bob's OVP module and I will need to buy a circuit
>breaker. Can someone make a recommendation for a CB. A specific brand,
>type number & suplier would be helpful.
>
>Thanks, Paul
Any 5A breaker will do. The folks who sold you the OV protection
module sell a miniature 5A breaker at:
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?7X358218
Aircraft Spruce has one a bit larger at:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/pbcircuitbrkr.php
See p/n W23X1A1G5 5 CB-230 5A $11.950
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mom-on toggle |
>
>I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage
>switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I
>want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with the
>red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the
>three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ...
CARLING 6FB5H73XA: ALLIED STOCK # 683-5121
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=896.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Bob -
Now that the subject came up again, it would really help to have a feel for
the right sizes. Could you complete the following table for sizing of
shrink wrap? Of course, it varies with the terminal, pin, # of wires, etc.,
but a general size for each would be OK. Many thanks in advance and again
for your past help.
All wire is Mil 22759
22AWG: Size:
20AWG: Size:
18AWG: Size:
16AWG: Size:
14AWG: Size:
12AWG: Size:
10AWG: Size:
08AWG: Size:
06AWG: Size:
04AWG: Size:
02AWG: Size:
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wire cross sectional area |
| From: | Gerald Giddens <geraldgiddens(at)cox.net> |
Anyone
Anyone have a reference for the cross sectional area for Mil Spec Wire
#24-#2 and sq inch preferred.
Thanks
Jerry N414PM Reserved
Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Bob -
>
>Now that the subject came up again, it would really help to have a feel for
>the right sizes. Could you complete the following table for sizing of
>shrink wrap? Of course, it varies with the terminal, pin, # of wires, etc.,
>but a general size for each would be OK. Many thanks in advance and again
>for your past help.
>
>All wire is Mil 22759
>
>22AWG: Size:
>20AWG: Size:
>18AWG: Size:
>16AWG: Size:
>14AWG: Size:
>12AWG: Size:
>10AWG: Size:
>08AWG: Size:
>06AWG: Size:
>04AWG: Size:
>02AWG: Size:
It depends on the kind of heat-shrink you are using. MOST
shrinks drop to 1/2 their manufactured size when
heated. However, referring to the catalog page:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Allied_p301.pdf we see
shrink ratios as high as 4:1
Here's an excerpt from the spec for Mil-W-22759/16
wire . . . most commonly used for aircraft.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/22759-16.pdf
This chart gives you the overall diameter limits
for the various gages of wire. You'll want ot select
shrink that will close to some value just smaller
than the wire for best fit.
As it turns out, there are only a few sizes necessary
to cover all the bases in applying shrink covers over
wire labels. These are offered by B&C at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
down near the bottom of the listing. There's even
a kit of assorted sizes and quqantites that will
probably have enough of every size necessary in
2:1 clear shrink to do an airplane project.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
>
>Bob or anyone,
>I'm installing a Blue Mountain EFIS and this allows me to set up 'instrument
>gauges' with any label that I want, as long as I can get an analog voltage to
>represent the measurement. I would like to measure HP output from the
>engine.
>HP=(Torque)(RPM)/5252. Strain gauges are old technology with which I have no
>experience. A strain gauge on the prop shaft is hard to interface. Power
>and
>signal must pass either sliding rings and brushes :>(( or else use some
>magnetic and optical coupling. However, strain gauges on the engine mount
>would be easy to connect, but I'm not sure that I could separate torque
>moments
>from the linear stresses of just holding the weight of the engine. I believe
>that there are strain gauges with a 45 degree pattern that respond to torque
>more than to linear stress, but I hardly know where to start reading. Or,
>has
>anyone tried this and found that it is impossible? I did send off to Omega
>for
>some literature. I envision building a Wheatstone bridge arrangement feeding
>an instrumentation amplifier. Any thoughts/pearls/war stories?
It's been done but it's pretty ugly. First, the stress on a prop shaft
is rather low . . . seems there is a decidedly enthusiastic interest in
not having prop shafts break. When one goes to measure strain on
a prop shaft surface, the values are exceedingly small. After you've
amplified them up to usable values, you find that every power pulse
from a firing cylinder puts gobs of modulation on the envelope of
average torque. Aerodynamic loads and gyroscopic loading add further
degrees of uncertainty. The task is challenging electronically too.
The best approach I've see was to power the measurement system from
battery and radio the data off the prop from a TM transmitter
housed in the prop spinner. Some fancy footwork with a digital
signal processor integrated the very ratty raw data into usable
information. Is this a short term investigative effort or are you
trying to make your suite of engine instrumentation look like you've
got a turbo-prop installed?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav antenna next to Comm |
>
>Bob, or anyone,
>I have a Jabiru J400 with the comm antenna in the vertical fin, just ahead of
>the rudder. There is a channel in the horizontal stabalizer where the
>elevator
>lies with a perfect fit for some one inch wide brass strip, possibly 0.020
>thick. This would give a broadband, low Q horizontally polarized antenna. My
>receiver is a UPS SL-30, a modern design. Will I have cross-talk problems
>transmitting on the comm frequencies while receiving VOR, or using the third
>harmonic of the antenna for glide-slope?
On VOR maybe but it's only while you're transmitting. On GS, probably
not.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire cross sectional area |
>
>
>Anyone
>
>Anyone have a reference for the cross sectional area for Mil Spec Wire
>#24-#2 and sq inch preferred.
Are you wanting the overall sizes or cross section of
the conductor? For overall size of wires, refer to the
excerpt from the spec I just published for the Mil-W-22759/16
wire at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/22759-16.pdf
If you're wanting the finely tuned cross sectional area
of the copper, you can calculate based on numbers of strands
use in layup and compute cross section for sum of strands
of the gages cited. Here's a list of data on solid strands
over a limited range
WIRE TABLE FOR SOLID, ROUND COPPER CONDUCTORS
Size Diameter Cross-sectional area Weight
AWG inches cir. mils sq. inches lb/1000 ft
===============================================================
10 -------- 0.1019 ------- 10,380 ------ 0.008155 ----- 31.43
11 -------- 0.09074 ------- 8,234 ------ 0.006467 ----- 24.92
12 -------- 0.08081 ------- 6,530 ------ 0.005129 ----- 19.77
13 -------- 0.07196 ------- 5,178 ------ 0.004067 ----- 15.68
14 -------- 0.06408 ------- 4,107 ------ 0.003225 ----- 12.43
15 -------- 0.05707 ------- 3,257 ------ 0.002558 ----- 9.858
16 -------- 0.05082 ------- 2,583 ------ 0.002028 ----- 7.818
17 -------- 0.04526 ------- 2,048 ------ 0.001609 ----- 6.200
18 -------- 0.04030 ------- 1,624 ------ 0.001276 ----- 4.917
19 -------- 0.03589 ------- 1,288 ------ 0.001012 ----- 3.899
20 -------- 0.03196 ------- 1,022 ----- 0.0008023 ----- 3.092
21 -------- 0.02846 ------- 810.1 ----- 0.0006363 ----- 2.452
22 -------- 0.02535 ------- 642.5 ----- 0.0005046 ----- 1.945
23 -------- 0.02257 ------- 509.5 ----- 0.0004001 ----- 1.542
24 -------- 0.02010 ------- 404.0 ----- 0.0003173 ----- 1.233
25 -------- 0.01790 ------- 320.4 ----- 0.0002517 ----- 0.9699
26 -------- 0.01594 ------- 254.1 ----- 0.0001996 ----- 0.7692
27 -------- 0.01420 ------- 201.5 ----- 0.0001583 ----- 0.6100
28 -------- 0.01264 ------- 159.8 ----- 0.0001255 ----- 0.4837
29 -------- 0.01126 ------- 126.7 ----- 0.00009954 ---- 0.3836
30 -------- 0.01003 ------- 100.5 ----- 0.00007894 ---- 0.3042
31 ------- 0.008928 ------- 79.70 ----- 0.00006260 ---- 0.2413
32 ------- 0.007950 ------- 63.21 ----- 0.00004964 ---- 0.1913
33 ------- 0.007080 ------- 50.13 ----- 0.00003937 ---- 0.1517
34 ------- 0.006305 ------- 39.75 ----- 0.00003122 ---- 0.1203
35 ------- 0.005615 ------- 31.52 ----- 0.00002476 --- 0.09542
36 ------- 0.005000 ------- 25.00 ----- 0.00001963 --- 0.07567
37 ------- 0.004453 ------- 19.83 ----- 0.00001557 --- 0.06001
38 ------- 0.003965 ------- 15.72 ----- 0.00001235 --- 0.04759
39 ------- 0.003531 ------- 12.47 ---- 0.000009793 --- 0.03774
40 ------- 0.003145 ------- 9.888 ---- 0.000007766 --- 0.02993
41 ------- 0.002800 ------- 7.842 ---- 0.000006159 --- 0.02374
42 ------- 0.002494 ------- 6.219 ---- 0.000004884 --- 0.01882
43 ------- 0.002221 ------- 4.932 ---- 0.000003873 --- 0.01493
44 ------- 0.001978 ------- 3.911 ---- 0.000003072 --- 0.01184
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque measurement with strain gauge |
Thanks you all for the comments and resources. The Circuit Cellar reference was
unclear as to the mechanics of the torque measurement, but it did not involve
a strain gauge. Bob confirmed my suspicion that the very strong prop shaft
would lead to very little strain for the applied stress, and thus a tiny signal,
full of noise. Also, hanging something on the prop shaft that could fly off,
or get unbalanced, demands real engineering and care in manufacture. "First,
do no harm". The engine mount is far more flexible, and thus gives a much
larger output to a strain gauge. I can average out the vibration. The Blue Mountain
software is quite flexible in the setup page, and a moving average is
easy to do.
And yes, I would like to have the instrumentation look like a turboprop, Bob!
Mainly, it will help to compare propellers, but it may also give early warning
of engine malfunction. Or, early warning of pilot malfunction if I try to take
off at high density altitude with insufficient power. I like reassurance.
Jim Foerster Jabiru J400 50% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Engine torque measurement |
I've often wondered if measuring the engine deflection in the engine mounts
would be a practical method of determining torque. The idea would be to
attach a position sensor to opposite cylinders, since that is a convenient
location where two sensors could be placed as far from the centerline as
possible and in the same plane as the crank. Engine mount deflection is not
linear with applied and it probably changes significantly with time, but it
might be a way to grasp a large enough signal to be practical. Common-mode
effects due to G loading and thrust would presumably be cancelled. One
could also use strain gages on the engine mount tubing, but the stresses are
very low and because of the geometry canceling the common-mode effects would
be difficult. Any comments?
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
In a message dated 6/8/2003 6:33:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
> I've often wondered if measuring the engine deflection in the engine mounts
> would be a practical method of determining torque. The idea would be to
> attach a position sensor to opposite cylinders, since that is a convenient
> location where two sensors could be placed as far from the centerline as
> possible and in the same plane as the crank. Engine mount deflection is not
> linear with applied and it probably changes significantly with time, but it
> might be a way to grasp a large enough signal to be practical. Common-mode
> effects due to G loading and thrust would presumably be cancelled. One
> could also use strain gages on the engine mount tubing, but the stresses are
> very low and because of the geometry canceling the common-mode effects would
> be difficult. Any comments?
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
On all the dyno's I have run there where several ways to monitor loads. On
the Stuska brake it was a fluid filled diaphram that send the fluid pressure to
the 12" gauge in the control room. You could suppress most engine pulses with
a inline needle valve. On the Superflow dyno's there is a electronic strain
gauge and you program out the pulses with their software. All dyno's have the
brake sitting on two rather large bearings and the force of the engine torque is
measured by monitoring the retarded and regulated rotation force loaded by
the brake. I would imagine a person could weld up a mount that incorperates a
similar set up with the motor sitting a a cradle with two rubber mounted large
bearing, one at each end of the engine. You can then weld a pad for the
strain gauge / load diaphram and get info from that. It would need to resist thrust
loads too. Just my two cents worth.
Ben Haas Haas Racing Products. Jackson Hole Wy. N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>I use MS word and a 6 point font to print a sheet of labels, then cut
>>them up with scissors and insert the label between the shrink tubing
>>and the wire. Just about any printer and plain paper works great.
>>Regards, John Slade
>
> For an illustration of how this works, see:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/wiring.html#s816c
>
> Bob . . .
>
I recently rebuilt my instrument panel, and I used this method for wire
labels. Instead of printing the labels on plain paper however, I
printed them on self-stick return address labels (1/2" x 1 3/4", Avery
5267). I used one return address label for each wire label. The wire
designation (a number in my case) was printed 20 times on a single label
-- 5 columns of 4 rows (in 6 point font). I then cut the label between
the five columns. This gave me five labels for each wire -- one for
each end plus three spares. (Those of you who always do everything
exactly right the first time would have no need for the spares.)
I found it much easier to just wrap the self-stick label around the wire
and then add the heat-shrink tubing, rather than trying to coax an
uwilling plain-paper label under a piece of tubing. The self-stick
label makes a fairly decent wire label all by itself, without the
heat-shrink tubing. I used the labels without tubing to replace some of
the "flag" type labels that I used when I originally wired the airplane.
To print the labels, I used an Excel spreadsheet. By using a number for
each label, I was able to prepare all the labels that I needed, without
a lot of typing. I printed a whole sheet of 80 labels then cut it into
strips; each strip had 20 consecutively numbered labels. It did take
some fiddling to get the spreadsheet rows and columns setup to index
properly with the sheet of labels. If anyone wants a copy of my
spreadsheet, please contact me OFF LIST and I will send you one.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 812 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com> |
I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
place. Works very well.
Andy Morehouse
Grumman AA-5 N7167L
future RV builder
> From: "Dean Head" <banana(at)atlantic.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire labels
>
>
> Hi,
> I am new to the list. I am building a Cozy MK4. I have seen some wire
labels
> that are printed on shrink tube. Are these labels available or do you need
> some sort of "printer" to make them?
> Thanks
> Dean Head
> Cozy MK4 #1040
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Schiff" <tomschiff(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Engine torque measurement |
I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology. Might
look up how they did it. If all you are interested in is a relative
measurement my guess is that a few strain gages on the engine mounts
should do it.
If on the other hand you want a real accurate torque measurement it
might be more difficult.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kc" <samdacat(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | D-Sub for Idiots |
??Is there a "D-Sub for Idiots" publication available?? I want to utilize these
connectors. I think I understand where to buy pins, crimpers, and wire. I
think I know how to crimp and insert pins. BUT when it comes to connector shells
I am totally lost.
I am currently looking at an application that tells me to use a Female connector
to mate with a Male DB-25P. I find the recommenced source, Mouser, and enter
DB-25P in the search window. I immediately get 30 matches to my inquiry, all
different. ??What am I missing??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Mom-on toggle |
Larry and Bob,
I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and find that
it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that switch with
the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless lifted to activate.
This means that the switch would be ON if I'm interpreting this correctly.
Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON).
Seems to me that this is what you want.
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom..." <tsled(at)pacbell.net> |
Here ya go with the Red cover:
http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/
Tom...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Bowen
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mom-on toggle
I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage
switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I
want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with the
red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the
three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
In a message dated 6/8/03 7:06:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
tomschiff(at)attbi.com writes:
> I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
> engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
> torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
> tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
> measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology.
Good Evening Tom,
Those were referred to as Torquemeters and they worked by measuring the
movement of the planetary ring gear in the reduction system. No reduction gearing,
no torquemeter. We not only used them for normal leaning, but to check that
the engine was producing normal power on every takeoff. They were every nice
things to have. As to leaning lean of peak, we leaned the Turbo Compound
R-3350 on the DC-7 ten percent lean of best power, advanced the spark and leaned
some more.
There is nothing new under the sun. Lindbergh did the same thing only he
didn't have a torque meter. However, he had the next best thing. He had a fixed
pitch prop. By developing the numbers on a test engine, he knew just how big
a drop he needed to get the engine into the best BSFC range.
The problem was the same back then as it is today, you had to get even fuel
distribution to successfully run the engine on the lean side.
Incidentally, I mentioned a few days ago that there has been development work
done on using strain gauges on the engine mounts to develop a low cost torque
meter. It would be nice to have.
Al Hundere developed the use of an EGT gauge because there wasn't any
reasonable way to get a low cost torque meter on our small engines. By running
an
engine on a test stand and noting the EGT readings at various mixtures and power
settings, we can approximate what was done on the old piston airliners. The
actual temperature read on the EGT gauge is basically immaterial. The
important thing is what it is telling you as to how far you are from best power.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Mom-on toggle |
>
>
>Larry and Bob,
>I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and
>find that it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that
>switch with the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless
>lifted to activate. This means that the switch would be ON if I'm
>interpreting this correctly. Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied
>stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON). Seems to me that this is what
>you want.
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
>
>Jim Foerster
An on-none-(on) switch simply means that the switch is
a single-pole, two-position switch with no center position
and electrical conductivity AVAILABLE in both extremes. Whether
you hook up to both is optional hence the opportunity to
wire the switch as (off)-none-on or off-none-(on) or
on-none-(on) . . . this is why we don't stock the off-xxx-(on)
versions of any switch . . . it just makes us stock
different configurations of switch while adding no utility
with respect to how the switch is used.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: D-Sub for Idiots |
>
>??Is there a "D-Sub for Idiots" publication available?? I want to utilize
>these connectors. I think I understand where to buy pins, crimpers, and
>wire. I think I know how to crimp and insert pins. BUT when it comes to
>connector shells I am totally lost.
>
>I am currently looking at an application that tells me to use a Female
>connector to mate with a Male DB-25P. I find the recommenced source,
>Mouser, and enter DB-25P in the search window. I immediately get 30
>matches to my inquiry, all different. ??What am I missing??
Same problem as walking into a hardware store and asking
for a "6-32 screw", they come in all sizes, shapes, materials and
finishes. Check out this page from Digikey catalog:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/DK119.pdf
At the top of left hand column you find the Amplimite series of d-sub
shells (the Diary Queen variety) and just below are the 109 series
military qualified (Haggen-Das variety) connector shells.
Radio Shack has 9 and 25 pin shells (I am mystified as to why
they don't stock the 15 pin sizes . . . I've written to them
several times to let them know that there ARE some other
sizes of noteworthy utility).
Looking through the Digikey catalog will give you a good
(but small) overview of the variety of d-sub products available
but I'm betting that the page cited above will cover your
needs.
See center column of:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/DK131.pdf
for low cost plastic back shells. If you don't need
15 pin shells and hoods, RS is an option for local
off the shelf parts . . . buy the crimp variety and
throw away the pins that come with them in favor of
the machined pins like those at the bottom left corner
of page 119 or from our website at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/BCcatalog.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Smoking a fusible link |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
When you did your experiments with fusible links, did you get any numbers
on how many amps it takes to actually melt a fusible link? For example,
if I use a 22 or 20 awg wire for the fuse link, I can look on the wire
chart and tell how many amps they can safely carry without overheating,
but at what minimum amperage will they physically melt through and open
the circuit? I'm just interested in a ballpark figure, like 30 A or 100
A or whatever the case may be. Assume free air (not in a bundle).
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D paint prep...
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
FWIW.......I know YAK 52's have a % power gage.
>
>In a message dated 6/8/03 7:06:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
>tomschiff(at)attbi.com writes:
>
>> I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
>> engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
>> torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
>> tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
>> measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology.
>
>Good Evening Tom,
>
>Those were referred to as Torquemeters and they worked by measuring the
>movement of the planetary ring gear in the reduction system. No reduction
>gearing,
>no torquemeter. We not only used them for normal leaning, but to check that
>the engine was producing normal power on every takeoff. They were every nice
>things to have. As to leaning lean of peak, we leaned the Turbo Compound
>R-3350 on the DC-7 ten percent lean of best power, advanced the spark and
>leaned
>some more.
>
>There is nothing new under the sun. Lindbergh did the same thing only he
>didn't have a torque meter. However, he had the next best thing. He had a
>fixed
>pitch prop. By developing the numbers on a test engine, he knew just how big
>a drop he needed to get the engine into the best BSFC range.
>
>The problem was the same back then as it is today, you had to get even fuel
>distribution to successfully run the engine on the lean side.
>
>Incidentally, I mentioned a few days ago that there has been development work
>done on using strain gauges on the engine mounts to develop a low cost torque
>meter. It would be nice to have.
>
>Al Hundere developed the use of an EGT gauge because there wasn't any
>reasonable way to get a low cost torque meter on our small engines. By
>running an
>engine on a test stand and noting the EGT readings at various mixtures and
>power
>settings, we can approximate what was done on the old piston airliners. The
>actual temperature read on the EGT gauge is basically immaterial. The
>important thing is what it is telling you as to how far you are from best
>power.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
<>
Yes, but it is not tied to the M14P's planetary. It's just a tach,
percent of max RPM. Russian training thinking. And you can't lean it either.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
In a message dated 6/9/03 9:03:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes:
> FWIW.......I know YAK 52's have a % power gage
Good Morning Scott,
Any idea how it works?
I have no familiarity with the engine used in the YAK 52. Does it have a
built in gear reduction unit?
If so, a torque measuring device may be incorporated. However, RPM is also
required to get a reading of the power being developed by the engine. I
imagine such a combination instrument could be built using only mechanical
components, but with electronic devices, it should be a no brainer.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator and
a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
20 amps.
- Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should I
add a relay?
- If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
Philip Hildebrand
Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
Winnipeg, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for aircraft
use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an electric
oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
container is empty.
What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the pump
off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the oil
gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
switch that works as described above?
Oil Level Switch
I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the turbocharger
on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for aircraft use on
the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an electric oil pump
to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine crankcase. This is
necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too low for a gravity drain-back.
The electric pump only needs to operate long enough to pump oil out of
the container when it gets full and stop when the container is empty.
What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when the
oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will detect
when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the pump off. I
have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the oil gets too low,
but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to detect/switch at maximum
and minimum levels.
Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a switch
that works as described above?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics switch |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Philip,
What about cold weather operations requires the use of an
avionics master? Just curious. How cold are you talking
about?
I would think a 20A switch would be fine. Using relays adds
to the parts count which generally has a negative effect on
reliability. I would only use relays in a few applications.
These include where the switch I want to use (for form factor
reasons) isn't up to the electrical requirements for the
application. Or, where the use of a relay allows me to save
on the use of a bunch of heavy wire. Or where I can avoid
running long runs of unprotected wire. None of these seem
relevant here.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
> an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
> than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator and
> a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
> 20 amps.
> - Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should I
> add a relay?
> - If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
> Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
>
>
> Philip Hildebrand
> Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
> Winnipeg, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics switch |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Philip,
What about cold weather operations requires the use of an
avionics master? Just curious. How cold are you talking
about?
I would think a 20A switch would be fine. Using relays adds
to the parts count which generally has a negative effect on
reliability. I would only use relays in a few applications.
These include where the switch I want to use (for form factor
reasons) isn't up to the electrical requirements for the
application. Or, where the use of a relay allows me to save
on the use of a bunch of heavy wire. Or where I can avoid
running long runs of unprotected wire. None of these seem
relevant here.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
> an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
> than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator and
> a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
> 20 amps.
> - Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should I
> add a relay?
> - If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
> Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
>
>
> Philip Hildebrand
> Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
> Winnipeg, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil Level Switch
>
> I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
> turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
aircraft
> use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
electric
> oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
> crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
> low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate
long
> enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when
the
> container is empty.
>
> What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect
when
> the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
> detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
pump
> off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the oil
> gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
> detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
> switch that works as described above?
>
Hi Bob,
I fly a RV-6A with a Rotary 13B engine without a turbo at this time, but
I am planning on installing one and I have the same problem. Here are my
thoughts on the scavenger pump operation.
1. If the drain container fills up and is not pumped down, it is very
likely that the oil will back up to the turbo shaft, push past the seals and
cause smoking exhaust, if this continues sufficiently long, I would imagine
that the shaft would eventually "coke" from the overheated/burnt oil on the
shaft and may require a rebuild of the turbocharger. Not something you want
to have happen very often.
2. If the drain container remains empty (all oil always pumped out as soon
as it comes in) then depending on the size of your drain container, you have
a lot (continuos?) operation of the pump which would like shorten its
operational life (maybe).
Since I fly with an electric fuel pump on at all times and that pump has
shown no signs of wear after 200 hours of flight time and close to 260
engine operation time, I think the simpler approach might be to have your
pump operate at all times the engine is operating. An oil level
switch/detector is simply another part that can fail. Fewer parts = less
likely of failure of the system - all other things being equal.
Here's two things you could do to provide an increased comfort level. I
presume you will have a fuse or circuit breaker in the scavenger pump power
line. Should either blow/trip then you have a pump problem indication and
you take corrective action.
Also, you might rig a small LED in a visible spot on your instrument panel
powered off DC power to the pump terminal. Should power fail to get to the
pump terminal or should the pump short out the LED will go out (of course in
the latter case your fuse or circuit breaker should also blow/pop giving you
a backup indication).
Then there is always the visual indication of your exhaust making like an
airshow aircraft trailing smoke {:>)
I know this doesn't answer your specific question, but thought I would throw
it in for your consideration.
Be very interested in hearing how your Mustang II does with a rotary.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW 200+ Rotary Hours
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
There are times when the airplane is parked outside with the
tanis heater warming the engine but the cabin could be down to -25C.
Further to my initial question, should the avionics bus be
protected by a circuit breaker, or are the individual breakers for the
radio, HSI, etc sufficient?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics switch
Philip,
What about cold weather operations requires the use of an
avionics master? Just curious. How cold are you talking
about?
I would think a 20A switch would be fine. Using relays adds
to the parts count which generally has a negative effect on
reliability. I would only use relays in a few applications.
These include where the switch I want to use (for form factor
reasons) isn't up to the electrical requirements for the
application. Or, where the use of a relay allows me to save
on the use of a bunch of heavy wire. Or where I can avoid
running long runs of unprotected wire. None of these seem
relevant here.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
> an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
> than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator
and
> a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
> 20 amps.
> - Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should
I
> add a relay?
> - If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
> Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
>
>
> Philip Hildebrand
> Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
> Winnipeg, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealed coax connectors |
Bob,
Thanks for your response.
>
> I wouldn't make any special effort to buy a super-whizzy coax
> connector for an OBAM project . . .
>
> Now, if it's a taxpayer funded military project, then the
> sky's the limit. You can go for gold plated too . . .
So no special connectors. And no heatshrink, no nothing ?
thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Cable Tie Mounts |
I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold most
of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both appear
easy to install but expensive.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Comm antenna port to handheld questions |
Hi Bob and all,
I'm considering the building of a 'cockpit port to comm antenna' for a
portable VHF.
Of course several questions arose.
1) What do I use to solder brass shim stock ? Soldering iron, small torch ?
And are there any hints and tips I should know before launching into the
real thing ? (except what's already in Bob's Shop Note).
2) How do I solder the shield braid to the shim stock ? Just as if it were a
bunch of wires ?
3) I was unable to locate a radio Shack 174-248 jack in this part of the
world. Any one around know a source for an equivalent part in Europe ?
Thanks
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <beecho(at)beecho.org> |
| Subject: | Cable Tie Mounts |
Hi Steve
I use the cheepo adhesive stick on type that don't stick very well. If
you put a dot of epoxy in the center when you stick them on, the
adhesive holds them in place until the epoxy cures and then they are
very secure.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Richard
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
most
of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
appear
easy to install but expensive.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cable Tie Mounts |
The stick on types will not hold (long term) if there is a constant
pull/tug/tension on the wire. I use them only when I want to keep a wire
from being floppy/sagging etc.
>
>Hi Steve
>
>I use the cheepo adhesive stick on type that don't stick very well. If
>you put a dot of epoxy in the center when you stick them on, the
>adhesive holds them in place until the epoxy cures and then they are
>very secure.
>
>Tom
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
>Richard
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
>
>
>I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
>most
>of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
>click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
>appear
>easy to install but expensive.
>
>Steve Richard
>steve(at)oasissolutions.com
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
I have been using varios panduit mounts. part#s TM1 TM2. I sand the back,
put some Hysol on them and use a pop rivit to hold them while they dry.
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
> I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
most
> of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
> click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
appear
> easy to install but expensive.
>
> Steve Richard
> steve(at)oasissolutions.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 6/8/03 7:06:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
>tomschiff(at)attbi.com writes:
>
>
>
>>I have heard that on the old big round engine airliners they leaned the
>>engine by using a gage that measured the engine output. It was either
>>torque or thrust. The engine was leaned for maximum output and just a
>>tad beyond (lean of peak). So they knew how to do what you want to
>>measure in the early 50s and therefore must be old technology.
>>
>>
>
>Good Evening Tom,
>
>Those were referred to as Torquemeters and they worked by measuring the
>movement of the planetary ring gear in the reduction system. No reduction gearing,
>no torquemeter. We not only used them for normal leaning, but to check that
>the engine was producing normal power on every takeoff. They were every nice
>things to have. As to leaning lean of peak, we leaned the Turbo Compound
>R-3350 on the DC-7 ten percent lean of best power, advanced the spark and leaned
>some more.
>
>
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
Can you elaborate on the 'movement of the planetary ring gear' ? Was the
thrust of a helical cut gear being measured, or ????
This might have application in alternative engines with reduction drives.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Marker Beacon Antenna Lead |
I have an Apollo SL-10 intercom with a built in Marker Beacon. Unlike
other avionics with antennas (Comm or Nav) the SL-10 does not have any
sort of BNC connection for an antenna. The SL-10 antenna connection is
merely one pin in a fully loaded connector. This leads me to believe
that RG-400 or RG-58 cable is unnecessary. The installation manual says
nothing about antenna leads. I intend to have a simple wire antenna in
the wing tip for the marker beacon.
What sort of antenna lead do I need? Will just a strand of 22AWG wire
work, or should it be some sort of shielded wire?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
In a message dated 6/9/03 2:12:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
cengland(at)netdoor.com writes:
> Can you elaborate on the 'movement of the planetary ring gear' ? Was the
> thrust of a helical cut gear being measured, or ????
>
> This might have application in alternative engines with reduction drives.
>
>
Good Afternoon Charlie,
I can't tell you precisely, but that sounds about right.
The outer ring gear had helical cuts in the outer periphery such that it
would move slightly fore and aft as the torque was applied. The ring gear pushed
on a series of pistons which then supplied a flow of oil to the instrument.
That was calibrated to be equivalent to the calculated Brake Mean Effective
Pressure which should have been developed in the cylinders to provide that amount
of torque. By using a constant based on the displacement of the engine and
applying the RPM to the equation, the horsepower being developed could be
determined.
I know that regular oil pressure was supplied to the pistons to be used as a
transfer medium. I have no idea how the pressure being developed by the
movement of the ring gear was isolated from the engine oil pressure. I guess we
aviators didn't need to know that detail!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
If your load is pushing 20 amps or more, I would look into a SSR. I
personally used the powerlink JR and a SuperDiode from Eric to feed the
avionics/ess buss on my airplane. To back this up, I would suggest
added an ALT FEED switch directly from the battery. Two switches, a
diode, and a SSR should have you sitting nice if you deem you really
need the av master. I do highly recommend making it an ESS buss with
the ALT FEED if you do find a need for the av master. I'm not sure why
you think the cold warrants the master, but it is your plane, and if you
find it necessary, my only other advise is to be sure to back it up (ie,
the alt feed).
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Philip Hildebrand
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics switch
In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator and
a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
20 amps.
- Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should I
add a relay?
- If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
Philip Hildebrand
Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
Winnipeg, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shannon Knoepflein" <kycshann(at)kyol.net> |
Individual should be fine, as long as you keep the run from the
ssr/diode to the buss short. The alt feed directly from the battery
buss should be fused though.
---
Shannon Knoepflein <---> kycshann(at)kyol.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Philip Hildebrand
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics switch
There are times when the airplane is parked outside with the
tanis heater warming the engine but the cabin could be down to -25C.
Further to my initial question, should the avionics bus be
protected by a circuit breaker, or are the individual breakers for the
radio, HSI, etc sufficient?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics switch
Philip,
What about cold weather operations requires the use of an
avionics master? Just curious. How cold are you talking
about?
I would think a 20A switch would be fine. Using relays adds
to the parts count which generally has a negative effect on
reliability. I would only use relays in a few applications.
These include where the switch I want to use (for form factor
reasons) isn't up to the electrical requirements for the
application. Or, where the use of a relay allows me to save
on the use of a bunch of heavy wire. Or where I can avoid
running long runs of unprotected wire. None of these seem
relevant here.
Regards,
Matt Prather
N34RD
>
>
> In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
> an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
> than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator
and
> a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
> 20 amps.
> - Would a switch rated 20 amps be the right way to go or should
I
> add a relay?
> - If I need a relay, would the Perfect Cube SSR from Eric at
> Perihelion Design be a good choice for this application?
>
>
> Philip Hildebrand
> Email: phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com
> Winnipeg, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cable Tie Mounts |
| From: | "David" <David(at)ChalmersFamily.com> |
The stick on type just don't hold up. I remove the adhesive from the back, drill
several small holes around the edge of the base, then 5 minute epoxy them in
place with a strip of duct tape over them to hold in place. Without the small
holes to give some tooth for the epoxy they can pull off since the epoxy does
not bond well to the plastic.
Dave Chalmers
Redmond, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Richard [mailto:steve(at)oasissolutions.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold most
of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both appear
easy to install but expensive.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Magnetic Coupler - Tach |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
A friend of mine is trying to simplify his Subaru tach setup (two
ignitions) and was hoping to purchase a magnetic coupler that would
surround the main spark park feed wire on the engine and then connect to
his tach instrument, but hasn't been able to find someone that sells the
coupler. Does any one know where you can get one?
Thanks!
Don Honabach
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic Coupler - Tach |
There are simple magnetic pickups that count flywheel teeth. Simple as dirt,
and doesn't connect to anything ignition.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
Here's an idea Iuse:
take a 1/4 rod and lay it down on your table, cover with saran, then
with a piece of peel ply.
Wet out scrapes of cloth (5-6 layers) on the rod, another sheet of
saran and put a piece of soft foam over it all to force it down and let
it harden.
After it's hard, remove the peel ply and the rod and slice the layup on
a bandsaw crosswise into 1/2 pieces. When you have to attach something
like wires, flox one of these pieces where you want it and then double
tie-wrap the wire to the holder piece.
For attaching things like vacuum hoses, do the same thing but lay out
two 1/4 inch rods and make your layups across the two rods. When hard,
they will make a nice little inverted W that you can use a couple of
tiewraps to secure a hose too.
--Kent A.
Steve Richard wrote:
>
>I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold most
>of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed coax connectors |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
>Bob,
>Thanks for your response.
> >
> > I wouldn't make any special effort to buy a super-whizzy coax
> > connector for an OBAM project . . .
> >
> > Now, if it's a taxpayer funded military project, then the
> > sky's the limit. You can go for gold plated too . . .
>
>So no special connectors. And no heatshrink, no nothing ?
>thanks,
Do you have a connector that might be exposed to splash
or rain? If not, any BNC connector will be find as-supplied
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
>
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
>turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for aircraft
>use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an electric
>oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
>crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
>low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
>enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
>container is empty.
>
>What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
>the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
>detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the pump
>off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the oil
>gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
>detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
>Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
>switch that works as described above?
Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics switch |
>
>
> In spite of Bob's recommendations, I am planning on installing
>an avionics switch due to the cold weather operations in Canada. Other
>than the avionics switch I am wiring to Z14 with a 60 amp alternator and
>a 20 amp alternator. Loading for each avionics bus will be well under
>20 amps.
How much under 20A? If you do a load analysis of RUNNING LOAD (not
transmit loads) for each bus, you should find that ANY switch will
be just fine. The switch's ratings are most critical for making
and breaking a load, they CARRY several times rated current without
breathing hard. It's unlikely that you'll have any avionics bus
that begins to work the ordinary toggles switch beyond it's capabilities.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
> There are times when the airplane is parked outside with the
>tanis heater warming the engine but the cabin could be down to -25C.
> Further to my initial question, should the avionics bus be
>protected by a circuit breaker, or are the individual breakers for the
>radio, HSI, etc sufficient?
What is the "simple idea" that would prompt such a decision?
If there is a need for "protection" other than the protective
devices usually applied to a power distribution system, there
should be a reason based upon the physics of system operation
that suggest value in adding another protective device.
Adding parts increases cost of ownership, weight, complexity
and reduces system reliability. If there's a reason for doing
it, it's always a simple one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealed coax connectors |
> >So no special connectors. And no heatshrink, no nothing ?
> >thanks,
>
> Do you have a connector that might be exposed to splash
> or rain? If not, any BNC connector will be find as-supplied
>
> Bob . . .
No rain expected.
Except maybe for the XPDR antenna in the rear lower fairing. There are the
rudder bellcrank openings, and rain or wash water COULD get into them.
Cheers,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/GPS Indicator Relay Assembly |
Hello Bob,
I'm finally there were I can get use of your design from last August, there
are two major questions, I can only get easy hold of the G5V-2 relais not
the ultra sensitive one does this cause any problems?
Second question, is there a wiring diagramm for the switcher, as I can not
see out of my diagram for the GI-106A what the pins 19,18,17,16,15 on the
indicator to the 1 on the receivers are for (shields?).
There is the anunciator flags pins, are they feeded by the switch which is
feeding the power for the relais (double contacts?)
Many thanks for your help
Werner (trying to finish the panel wiring)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magnetic Coupler - Tach |
They come attached to timing lights for your car.
>
>A friend of mine is trying to simplify his Subaru tach setup (two
>ignitions) and was hoping to purchase a magnetic coupler that would
>surround the main spark park feed wire on the engine and then connect to
>his tach instrument, but hasn't been able to find someone that sells the
>coupler. Does any one know where you can get one?
>
>Thanks!
>Don Honabach
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Cable Tie Mounts |
Ron,
Where did you buy your mounts? Telephone number? I've tried Greybar, but
they don't carry in-stock.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron
Raby
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
I have been using varios panduit mounts. part#s TM1 TM2. I sand the back,
put some Hysol on them and use a pop rivit to hold them while they dry.
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
> I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
most
> of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
> click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
appear
> easy to install but expensive.
>
> Steve Richard
> steve(at)oasissolutions.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake" <BReed(at)slcrail.com> |
| Subject: | Magnetic Coupler - Tach |
The Mini Tach ($30 option) on a twin cylinder kohler just uses a lead
wrapped abot 20 times on the plug wire -
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magnetic Coupler - Tach
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
They come attached to timing lights for your car.
>
>A friend of mine is trying to simplify his Subaru tach setup (two
>ignitions) and was hoping to purchase a magnetic coupler that would
>surround the main spark park feed wire on the engine and then connect to
>his tach instrument, but hasn't been able to find someone that sells the
>coupler. Does any one know where you can get one?
>
>Thanks!
>Don Honabach
>
>
_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
In a message dated 6/9/2003 2:54:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
>
> >
> >I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
> >turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
> aircraft
> >use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an electric
> >oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
> >crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
> >low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
> >enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
> >container is empty.
> >
> >What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
> >the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
> >detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
> pump
> >off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the oil
> >gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
> >detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
> >
> >Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
> >switch that works as described above?
>
> Last time I took on a similar
Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most have a
3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute is not
a
liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time to de
emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil temp out
of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at one
gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years back and
couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a guy who is
stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
Ben Haas N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net> |
From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
Andy,
I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal they would
often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun was too hot
but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did you have this problem,
what is your secret?
Mark Means
I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
place. Works very well.
Andy Morehouse
Grumman AA-5 N7167L
future RV builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Mom-on toggle |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I didn't see the option you pointed out before I ordered. Thanks. I hope
the ones originally discussed will work. I had planned on not wiring the
on position, just the (on) position. Won't this result in the same
functionality?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
James Foerster said:
>
>
> Larry and Bob,
> I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and
> find that it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that
> switch with the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless
> lifted to activate. This means that the switch would be ON if I'm
> interpreting this correctly. Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied
> stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON). Seems to me that this is what
> you want.
>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
>
> Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Thanks. I already have the cover from Wicks. I had changed my switching
layout slightly and was just hunting for the elusive off-(on) switch.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Tom... said:
>
> Here ya go with the Red cover:
>
> http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/
>
> Tom...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> Bowen
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mom-on toggle
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking for a off-(on) toggle switch for use as a starter engage
> switch. Same functionality as the push button that Bob sells, but I
> want the form-factor of the toggle switches. This will be used with the
> red flip-guard. Anyone know a source? I guess one of the
> three-position switches would work [xx-xx-(on)], but ...
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> 2003 - The year of flight!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had no
problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left over
from my RC days.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>
> From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
>
> Andy,
>
> I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
you have this problem, what is your secret?
>
> Mark Means
>
>
> I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
> stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
> place. Works very well.
>
> Andy Morehouse
> Grumman AA-5 N7167L
> future RV builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine torque measurement |
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 6/9/03 2:12:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
>cengland(at)netdoor.com writes:
>
>
>
>>Can you elaborate on the 'movement of the planetary ring gear' ? Was the
>>thrust of a helical cut gear being measured, or ????
>>
>>This might have application in alternative engines with reduction drives.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Good Afternoon Charlie,
>
>I can't tell you precisely, but that sounds about right.
>
>The outer ring gear had helical cuts in the outer periphery such that it
>would move slightly fore and aft as the torque was applied. The ring gear pushed
>on a series of pistons which then supplied a flow of oil to the instrument.
>That was calibrated to be equivalent to the calculated Brake Mean Effective
>Pressure which should have been developed in the cylinders to provide that amount
>of torque. By using a constant based on the displacement of the engine and
>applying the RPM to the equation, the horsepower being developed could be
>determined.
>
>I know that regular oil pressure was supplied to the pistons to be used as a
>transfer medium. I have no idea how the pressure being developed by the
>movement of the ring gear was isolated from the engine oil pressure. I guess
we
>aviators didn't need to know that detail!
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>
>Thanks, Bob
>
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
-John R.
RSwanson wrote:
>
>Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had no
>problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left over
>from my RC days.
>R
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
>>
>>Andy,
>>
>>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
>>
>>
>they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
>was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
>you have this problem, what is your secret?
>
>
>>Mark Means
>>
>>
>>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
>>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
>>place. Works very well.
>>
>>Andy Morehouse
>>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
>>future RV builder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
Yes, I didn't think about that. I had forgotten that they also make paper
labels. Never even considered using them, all mine are laminated.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
> -John R.
>
> RSwanson wrote:
>
> >
> >Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
no
> >problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
over
> >from my RC days.
> >R
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
> >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
> >>
> >>Andy,
> >>
> >>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
> >>
> >>
> >they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
> >was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
> >you have this problem, what is your secret?
> >
> >
> >>Mark Means
> >>
> >>
> >>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make
and
> >>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
> >>place. Works very well.
> >>
> >>Andy Morehouse
> >>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
> >>future RV builder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
HI Bob and all,
I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant switches
available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a normal oil
temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
the normal oil temp circuit.
Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Backup power source for ignition? |
Hi Gang,
I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point ignition.
I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC fuses running to each
ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition switches are about 2 inches
from the main bus and I wondered about the feasability of running a wire from
the main bus to the ignition switches for a redundant power supply. With the
fuses being unaccessable in flight located in the tail cone on the battery box
if the fuses both blow then it will get real quiet...
Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power sources isolated?
The power from the main bus could be fused abd switched as well??
Thanks,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
Steve
Nelco products. 781-826-3010. Do you have the Panduit catalog? There are
many versions. that is the base #. I would recommend # TM1S6-C for most
cases. Fits medium tywrap # 6 mounting hole in the middle.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
> Ron,
>
> Where did you buy your mounts? Telephone number? I've tried Greybar, but
> they don't carry in-stock.
>
> Steve Richard
> steve(at)oasissolutions.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron
> Raby
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
>
>
>
> I have been using varios panduit mounts. part#s TM1 TM2. I sand the back,
> put some Hysol on them and use a pop rivit to hold them while they dry.
>
> Ron Raby
>
> Lancair ES
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cable Tie Mounts
>
>
>
> >
> > I'm building a fiberglass airplane. I'd like to use cable ties to hold
> most
> > of the wire. What is everyone using for cable tie mounts? Lanciar uses
> > click-bond at $1.65 each. Panduit has some for 90 cents each. Both
> appear
> > easy to install but expensive.
> >
> > Steve Richard
> > steve(at)oasissolutions.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billie Lamb" <N254BL(at)cfl.rr.com> |
I just finished wiring my Mustang II. I used the P touch labeler and used
the TZ tape. It will stand all the heat you want to give it with no
discoloration and the adhesive is adequate to hold it in place until you
shrink the tube over it. I used the small pencil propane torch to shrink all
the tubing and am quite satisfied with the finished product.
Bill Lamb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
> -John R.
>
> RSwanson wrote:
>
> >
> >Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
no
> >problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
over
> >from my RC days.
> >R
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
> >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
> >>
> >>Andy,
> >>
> >>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
> >>
> >>
> >they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
> >was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
> >you have this problem, what is your secret?
> >
> >
> >>Mark Means
> >>
> >>
> >>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
> >>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
> >>place. Works very well.
> >>
> >>Andy Morehouse
> >>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
> >>future RV builder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Mom-on toggle |
>
>I didn't see the option you pointed out before I ordered. Thanks. I hope
>the ones originally discussed will work. I had planned on not wiring the
>on position, just the (on) position. Won't this result in the same
>functionality?
Apparently you missed my earlier post on this item:
>Larry and Bob,
>I looked up the Carling switch 6FB5H-73-XA, Allied stock # 683-5121, and
>find that it is a ON-NONE-(0N) SPST unit. Larry, you intend to guard that
>switch with the hinged cover which ensures that the toggle is down unless
>lifted to activate. This means that the switch would be ON if I'm
>interpreting this correctly. Two lines up in the catalog is the Allied
>stock # 683-5119 which is OFF-NONE-(ON). Seems to me that this is what
>you want.
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN896.pdf
>
>Jim Foerster
An on-none-(on) switch simply means that the switch is
a single-pole, two-position switch with no center position
and electrical conductivity AVAILABLE in both extremes. Whether
you hook up to both is optional hence the opportunity to
wire the switch as (off)-none-on or off-none-(on) or
on-none-(on) . . . this is why we don't stock the off-xxx-(on)
versions of any switch . . . it just makes us stock
different configurations of switch while adding no utility
with respect to how the switch is used.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
> > Last time I took on a similar
>
> Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
> thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most have a
> 3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
> coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute is not
a
> liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time to de
> emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
> housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil temp out
> of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
> pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at one
> gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years back and
> couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
> componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a guy who
is
> stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
Hi Ben,
Regarding turbos and oil, as usual - it depends. The oil pressure needed to
keep a turbo happily lubricated ranges from approx 10-15 psi when at idle to
approx 45-60 psi at full gallop. However, the flow rate is not quite as much
as you indicated (at least not with the turbos I am familiar with) and will
seldom exceed 1/2 gallon/min for our size turbos (less than 3"dia wheels). Older
turbos (before water cooling) often did have large oil flow for cooling as
well as lubrication purposes - newer ones with water cooling generally have less
oil flow).
If you are not using a water cooled turbo then the oil temps can get a bit high
as the oil picks up heat off the turbine shaft and housing and can get up
around 60-80F above the inlet oil temp when at full boost, but the relative small
amount of oil so heated (when compared to the total oil capacity of the engine)
will seldom elevate the sump oil temp more than 5F-10F during boost. The
principal reason you see you oil temperature increase during boost is because
you engine is producing more power and therefore more waste heat
There is the exception, of course, and that is if you shut the engine down after
running the turbo hard - without letting the turbocharger cool down, then with
no new oil/oil movement through the turbocharger, the oil remaining can indeed
reach 300F or more and that will generally lead to a condition known as "coking"
of the shaft and ultimately to bearing/shaft wear and failure. The water
cooled turbos are generally not nearly as bad under those conditions as even
with the engine off the water will still tend to carry heat away from the turbocharger.
The oil temp should not exceed 250-260F and I highly recommend that
if you are using a turbo, then to use synthetic oil with its higher temperature
tolerance.
Totally agree about the foamy state of the oil as it drains from the turbo, one
of the reasons the turbos have such large drain orifices compared to the oil
inlet. So you also need a container/sump to collect the foamy oil and give it
a chance to settle out. Otherwise, as you indicate, it will be difficult for
any pump to pump frothy oil. However, a pint size container is generally sufficient
to accomplish this. I would recommend putting a slanting plate (drilled
with 1/8" dia holes) from near the oil entrance to approx 3/4 way down the
tank that spans the diameter of the tank. The oil inlet should be placed so
that the frothy oil drops onto this plate (splitting oil flow over both sides
of the plate as much as possible). This plate will induce the oil/air bubbles
to collapse releasing the oil to flow down the plate to the bottom of the tank
in liquid form to be pumped out by the scavenger pump.
Regarding the scavenger pump, I would recommend a diaphragm type pump or piston
type over a rotary. A rotary/vane impeller type pick up might have more trouble
if the oil were still a bit frothy than a diaphragm or piston type pump.
It needs to be a low-pressure, high volume type pump as all it needs to do it
pump the oil back into the engine sump. A recommend capacity is 1 1/2 times the
expected oil inflow. So if you expect 0.5/gpm of oil flow then a 1.5 gallon/min
pump should do the job.
Regarding turbos and aircraft, its important to verify that the change in operating
conditions (i.e. decrease in ambient pressure) as you climb in altitude does
not push your compressor wheel into the "surge" zone. If the boost pressure
is kept constant during the climb, then the pressure ratio of P1/P2 (P1 ambient,
P2boost) will increase as P1 decreases and that will move the operating
point vertically on most compressor maps (toward the surge zone on the left hand
side of the graph lines). FWIW
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>
>-John R.
Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
enough to use on 22AWG wire.
See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
6pt.
Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
may disappear with time).
The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
the heat shrink slides over it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup power source for ignition? |
>
>Hi Gang,
>
>I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point
>ignition. I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC
>fuses running to each ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition
>switches are about 2 inches from the main bus and I wondered about the
>feasability of running a wire from the main bus to the ignition switches
>for a redundant power supply. With the fuses being unaccessable in flight
>located in the tail cone on the battery box if the fuses both blow then
>it will get real quiet...
If you DO blow two fuses, what is likelihood that replacing
either of them will make things get noisier? 7A circuits are
generally quite robust with respect to actual power required
to run an ignition system . . . these fuses are not going
to nuisance trip.
>Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power
>sources isolated? The power from the main bus could be fused abd switched
>as well??
>
>Thanks,
>Ned
If you have two ignition systems, will EITHER run the engine
independently of
the other? If so, consider two batteries, one for each ignition. The
second battery doesn't have to be a big one. Are you using one of
the Z-figures as a baseline distribution diagram?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
Yup, I for one won't be available for a ride in such a setup ;(
However for a somewhat different approach, "TurboTom" has been flying an
ej22 where the engine sucks oil from a remote oil tank that sits lower
than the normal crankcase. Essentially he has lowered the oil pan and
separated it from the engine. Think he trashed the first engine when the
suction line collapsed but last I heard his setup was working fine.
Ken
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
> >turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
> aircraft
> >use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
electric
> >oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
> >crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is
mounted too
> >low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to
operate long
> >enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop
when the
> >container is empty.
> >
> >What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will
detect when
> >the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on,
and will
> >detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
> pump
> >off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when
the oil
> >gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
> >detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
> >
> >Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor
with a
> >switch that works as described above?
>
> Last time I took on a similar
Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most
have a
3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute
is not
a
liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time
to de
emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil
temp out
of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at
one
gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years
back and
couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a
guy who is
stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
Ben Haas N801BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Backup power source for ignition? |
Good point Bob. I'll just Keep It Simple.
Thanks,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Backup power source for ignition?
>
> >
> >Hi Gang,
> >
> >I've been rewiring my RV6A that has a Chevy 4.3L V6 with dual point
> >ignition. I have completed the Always Hot Battery Buss with 7 amp ATC
> >fuses running to each ignition switch then to the coils. The ignition
> >switches are about 2 inches from the main bus and I wondered about the
> >feasability of running a wire from the main bus to the ignition switches
> >for a redundant power supply. With the fuses being unaccessable in flight
> >located in the tail cone on the battery box if the fuses both blow then
> >it will get real quiet...
>
> If you DO blow two fuses, what is likelihood that replacing
> either of them will make things get noisier? 7A circuits are
> generally quite robust with respect to actual power required
> to run an ignition system . . . these fuses are not going
> to nuisance trip.
>
>
> >Would this be a bad idea? Would it need diodes to keep the 2 power
> >sources isolated? The power from the main bus could be fused abd
switched
> >as well??
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ned
>
> If you have two ignition systems, will EITHER run the engine
> independently of
> the other? If so, consider two batteries, one for each ignition. The
> second battery doesn't have to be a big one. Are you using one of
> the Z-figures as a baseline distribution diagram?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temp switch |
did you mean various?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
>
> HI Bob and all,
>
> I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant switches
> available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a normal oil
> temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
>
> What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
>
> Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
> the normal oil temp circuit.
>
> Ian
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Right. The TZ-types are all laminated, I believe, and some are specially
designed to resist chemicals as well, if I recall their catalog info
correctly... BTW, Sam's Club has the tapes in a multi-pack now, 3 for
$25 (Clear, White and Yellow, 26.2' each, 1/2-in wide) or so.... I'm not
sure if there's better deals out there, but I believe they are usually
$12-15 apiece?
I believe all the model types PT-1100 and above use laminated tapes (TZ-
and other types); while the cheaper ones (PT-65 and below) use the
M-type tapes, which are all paper.
-John R.
Billie Lamb wrote:
>
>I just finished wiring my Mustang II. I used the P touch labeler and used
>the TZ tape. It will stand all the heat you want to give it with no
>discoloration and the adhesive is adequate to hold it in place until you
>shrink the tube over it. I used the small pencil propane torch to shrink all
>the tubing and am quite satisfied with the finished product.
>
>
>Bill Lamb
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>
>>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
May 26, 2003 - June 10, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cb