AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-db
March 28, 2004 - April 08, 2004
DOLLARS AND CENTS
Just as in previous years, there will be one flat all-encompassing "gig" fee that
covers all events that involve significant out-of-pocket costs for the organizers.
The fee is $160 per person, and will cover:
- Friday afternoon welcome party
- Friday evening dinner banquet
- Saturday and Sunday tech sessions
- Saturday afternoon lunch
- Saturday evening dinner at the Far Western Tavern in Guadalupe
- Meeting rooms and coffee service at the Santa Maria Radisson
- Transportation to (and from) the Far Western Tavern
Lodging at the SMX Radisson will cost $89.00/night for either a single or double
room, which is far below the regular hotel room rate. Be sure you check in as
a SMXgig attendee and get the special rate. We have our definitive preference
listed with the hotel for rampside rooms - early registration can only help,
but of course, the rampside rooms are subject to availability depending on how
many existing guests are in those rooms.
You do not need to register with the hotel - just give me your preferences, and
I will take care of the reservations.
Important: This year, our final rooming lists are due to the hotel on April 11,
2004 (the even of Sun 'n Fun), which will guarantee space and the group rate.
The hotel will accept additional room reservations after that, on a space- and
rate-available basis. They will try their best to accommodate us after that
date, but the hotel is already sold out for the weekend.
The website (www.smxgig.org) has detailed information about the schedule, meals, hotel accommodations, and online registration. If you'd like your own announcement/registration emailed to you, or have any other questions, just let me know. (cory(at)smxgig.org or bootless(at)earthlink.net ).
Thanks, and see you there!
best, Cory Emberson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 always flashes |
>
> > I believe the low volts set-point in this product is calibrated
> > with fixed resistors . . . no adjustment to get out of whack. However,
> > the regulator will function mostly normally even when the lv sense
> > lead is unhooked (a fail safe feature added some years ago). What's
> > the voltage on terminal 3 of the LR-3 with the engine running and
> > alternator turned on?
>
>I don't know that specific value, but last night when running the engine,
>alternator on, main bus voltage was 14.2 volts...I have to assume that
>terminal 3 would have the same voltage value -- or maybe 0.25 volts less due
>to drops across the fuselink and circuit breaker in the circuit, so say 14
>volts nominally?
>
>If absolutely necessary to know that measurement, I guess I can hook it up
>and try it. Have I mentioned how much I hate screws & ring terminals?! I
>wish the LR3C-14 came with fast-on tabs! 8-)
>
>Somebody posted a source a while ago for fast-on tab conversion tab thingies
>for ring terminals...anybody remember that source?
The low volts setpoint is 13.0 volts. If terminal 3 has any
significance in this situation, it will be because it's not
hooked up. This is the pin that supplies lv sensing while
power to run the regulator and lv monitor can come from
either power source. I don't have the schematic in front of
me but I memory serves me correctly, having pin 3 disconnected
will produce the symptoms you're seeing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
John Schroeder wrote:
>
>> If the battery, starter and alternator are all within a few feet of
>> each other, 4AWG will generally suffice for fat wires. If battery is
>> behind seats in a tractor or in the nose of a pusher, then 2AWG wires
>> are recommended for the fat wires that carry cranking currents . . .
>> I'd stay with 4AWG battery jumpers for ease of maintenance.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob -
>
> You have used this terminology before: "Battery jumpers...". I am still
> confused about what you mean. In the context above, it would seem that the
> wire from the battery to the contactor must be a #2 - if the wire from the
> contactor to the starter is "carrying starter current". If the battery
> provides the starting current, then there ought to be # 2 from the
> battery, to the battery contactor-to the starter contactor-to the starter.
> This is what we have on our Z-14 where the batteries/battery contactors
> are about 11 feet from the firewall; where the starter contactor is
> installed.
>
> The only other lead from the batteries, in our case, is the one to the
> battery bus itself. That is a # 10.
>
> Does this make sense? Out of all these wires, what is the "battery jumper"?
I believe Bob means the cable from the battery to the contactor. Bob has
previously recommended taking the battery bus feed from the battery input side
of the battery contactor, rather than adding a second terminal to the battery
itself. Battery terminals are soft and can corrode and have other bad things
happen, and this way at maintenance time you're only removing/attaching a
single cable.
Current carrying capacity is only one factor in conductor sizing. A #6 cable
could carry this current. It's just that for a long run the resistance is such
that a lot of power would be dissipated in the cable itself, so there would be
a voltage drop that would affect starting performance. But for a 9" run from
the battery to a contactor a 4AWG wire is fine. This is only relevant for the
long run from instrument panel to firewall if I plan to put my batteries up
front (as I am seriously considering doing).
The difference between 4AWG and 2AWG is miniscule for a 9" run (0.000069
ohms), but more significant for the long run back to the engine (0.00097 ohms
for a 15 foot run), so Bob is recommmending that I make this longer piece out
of 2AWG. But since 4AWG is more flexible it makes a better battery jumper.
Both cables can carry the required current, so 4AWG throughout is fine if your
engine is only a foot away from your battery.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mprather <mprather(at)spro.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
Oh... When you initially had this problem, did the reading go
significantly above 60A
when running the main alternator? If not, then you just had a flat
battery. No big deal.
The battery might not even be bad, just discharged. Duh.. I wish I had
though of that.
The 14.2V reading makes sense... That's about as high as a good
regulator will push the
output voltage. A flat battery might drag the output down to 13.7V.
That the reading was observed to be climbing, instead of instantly going
to 60+A might
just be a time constant effect that the instrument has built in to make
cleaner looking
readings.
Thanks for sharing your troubleshooting process...
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
James Redmon wrote:
>
>
>OK, problem solved. BAD BATTERY!! BAD!!
>
>I took the Panasonic 17ah RG battery out, and temporarily hooked up a 26ah
>battery - for the purpose of testing the bigger battery's ability to turn
>the engine over. It did it without any fuss, and while the engine was
>running, I went ahead and tried the alts. To my surprise...EVERYTHING
>worked...I mean, exactly as anticipated. Voltage was slightly higher at
>14.2 peak but steady, amps ran up to about 20 then backed down to 15, then
>hovered around 8 with the primary alternator engaged!! I tested both
>primary and secondary systems...both within perfect specs.
>
>So, add me to the growing list of complaints against the battery
>manufacturers quality control.
>
>Further testing is required to fully determine if I need the additional
>cranking power of a second 17ah battery. (no physical room for a single big
>battery)
>
>Thanks all! Dan, I hope that you come to a quick resolution for your issues
>too!!
>
>James Redmon
>Berkut #013 N97TX
>http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles
>
>
>
>
>>After the first couple of runs, I took the engine up to about 1800 RPM and
>>did the primary/secondary alt checks with all selectable equipment turned
>>off. When I flip the 60-amp alt on, the voltage pegs 13.6v - 13.8v, as
>>
>>
>it
>
>
>>should, and is rock steady. However, the amp meter reads 5...then up to10
>>slowly, then within the span of about two or three seconds continues to
>>climb to 30...50...60...etc. So I shut it down at that point. Same
>>
>>
>thing
>
>
>>happens when the secondary is engaged but to a lesser extent (smaller
>>alternator). Voltage is constant through-out the tests when either
>>alternator is engaged.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 always flashes |
> The low volts setpoint is 13.0 volts. If terminal 3 has any
> significance in this situation, it will be because it's not
> hooked up. This is the pin that supplies lv sensing while
> power to run the regulator and lv monitor can come from
> either power source. I don't have the schematic in front of
> me but I memory serves me correctly, having pin 3 disconnected
> will produce the symptoms you're seeing.
Hm. Well, terminal 3 is definitely hooked up. I get within 0.02 volts of
main bus voltage on terminal 3. Looks good to me!
I'm stumped. Gonna call B&C in the morning! Thanks Bob and everybody who
gave me suggestions, I really appreciate it!
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
Humm...well, this begs the question: Is the old 17ah battery bad, dead or
operating normally?
I was quick to dismiss the battery sucking down 65 amps (that was the peak
before I shut it down) in charge and low capacity to turn the engine over as
abnormal, and just labeled it- "BAD". Am I to infer from this that what the
battery did could be labeled as normal operation of a thrashed battery? I'd
like to learn more in this area if others would like to jump in.
The revised plan is to procure 1 new 17ah batt. Test the capacity of the
bat but simulating several multi-blade starts. If it performs well...I'll
stop here. If it does not, I will add another 17ah batt in parallel for
additional cranking power. (I do not have physical space for a single
larger battery - but do have space for another 17ah a foot away)
Listening with curious ears....
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "mprather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery
troubles
>
> Oh... When you initially had this problem, did the reading go
> significantly above 60A
> when running the main alternator? If not, then you just had a flat
> battery. No big deal.
> The battery might not even be bad, just discharged. Duh.. I wish I had
> though of that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LSI responce from Klaus |
| From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
03/29/2004 07:30:47 AM
Terry,
Thanks for that, I am not a reader of these lists so this is the only way I
become
aware of some of the stuff being said out there.
If you would publish this for me regarding this issue:
All Plasma systems are extensively checked and calibrated at Light Speed
Engineering. Each system has a serial number and a calibration sheet that
is kept
here. One of the test points documented on each are min voltages. During
start the
minimum voltage to start firing needs to be >7.5v. Once the system is
running the
voltage can be reduced to 4 or 5 volts depending on rpm. This is a safety
feature
that prevents takeoff with an 8v battery which then can causes engine
stoppage
during take off.
If the battery voltage drops to below 9 volts during cranking, either your
battery
is too small or your connections to the starter need improvement or you
have one of
those starters that draw over 600 Amps when the pistons go over
compression.
This is one of the reasons why our manual insists that you connect the
systems
directly to the battery terminals. If you have 8 volts steady at the
battery and
there is some buss or diode or other switching device between the power
supply and
the Plasma CDI, the voltage can be reduced below the threshold of about 7.5
volts.
If the system does not work with a steady 8 volts or more at its connector,
there
might be a problem with it and it should be returned for testing. Again,
once it is
operating the supply voltage at the pin can go as low as 4-5volts before it
stops
firing.
Fortunately the Plasma systems do not misfire during violent voltage
swings. It
either times correctly or does not fire. This is in contrast to all other
ignition
systems I have seen.
Regards,
Klaus Savier
tlamp(at)columbus.rr.com wrote:
> AS copied form the Aerolectric Connection users mail list.
>
> THought you mihgt want to hear.
>
> My LSI is running great. Perhaps we'll see you at SNF in a couple of
weeks.
>
> Terry
> Long EZ N977JT
> Ohio
>
> From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma III
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> LSE ignition units work as low as 4~5 volts if memory serves, its listed
on
> their web site. If your idea of the second battery works then either the
> IGN system has a problem or you by passed the problem somewhere else.
>
> Scott,
>
> On my RV-6, the voltage (measured at the ignition module) drops to around
8
> volts with the starter engaged, and the LSE does not fire at that
voltage,
> regardless of what Klause claims.
>
> Ken Harrill
> RV-6, 300+ hours
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery "jumpers" |
>
>
> > If the battery, starter and alternator are all within a few feet of
> > each other, 4AWG will generally suffice for fat wires. If battery is
> > behind seats in a tractor or in the nose of a pusher, then 2AWG wires
> > are recommended for the fat wires that carry cranking currents . . .
> > I'd stay with 4AWG battery jumpers for ease of maintenance.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob -
>
>You have used this terminology before: "Battery jumpers...". I am still
>confused about what you mean. In the context above, it would seem that the
>wire from the battery to the contactor must be a #2 - if the wire from the
>contactor to the starter is "carrying starter current". If the battery
>provides the starting current, then there ought to be # 2 from the
>battery, to the battery contactor-to the starter contactor-to the starter.
>This is what we have on our Z-14 where the batteries/battery contactors
>are about 11 feet from the firewall; where the starter contactor is
>installed.
#2 wire is needed on LONG runs to reduce voltage drops during
cranking. If #4 is okay for the cranking circuits when they're
short, it's also okay to have short segments of #4 wire in the
system for ease of maintenance. B&C offers custom battery
cables at
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
but only in 4AWG wire. The notion was that it's important to
minimize stress on battery terminals (they're often made out
of lead). The only broken battery terminal I'm aware of had
2AWG 22759 wire bolted to it.
>The only other lead from the batteries, in our case, is the one to the
>battery bus itself. That is a # 10.
Yes, and this wire should run from battery bus to hot side
of battery contactor . . . not directly to the battery.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery |
troubles
>
>
>Humm...well, this begs the question: Is the old 17ah battery bad, dead or
>operating normally?
>
>I was quick to dismiss the battery sucking down 65 amps (that was the peak
>before I shut it down) in charge and low capacity to turn the engine over as
>abnormal, and just labeled it- "BAD". Am I to infer from this that what the
>battery did could be labeled as normal operation of a thrashed battery? I'd
>like to learn more in this area if others would like to jump in.
With the trashed battery out of the airplane. Put your voltmeter
on it and tell us what you see . . .
>The revised plan is to procure 1 new 17ah batt. Test the capacity of the
>bat but simulating several multi-blade starts. If it performs well...I'll
>stop here. If it does not, I will add another 17ah batt in parallel for
>additional cranking power. (I do not have physical space for a single
>larger battery - but do have space for another 17ah a foot away)
>
>Listening with curious ears....
There are hundreds if not over a thousand airplanes flying
with most satisfactory performance from a single 17 a.h. battery.
Let's see what's going on with your current possession.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 always flashes |
>
> > The low volts setpoint is 13.0 volts. If terminal 3 has any
> > significance in this situation, it will be because it's not
> > hooked up. This is the pin that supplies lv sensing while
> > power to run the regulator and lv monitor can come from
> > either power source. I don't have the schematic in front of
> > me but I memory serves me correctly, having pin 3 disconnected
> > will produce the symptoms you're seeing.
>
>Hm. Well, terminal 3 is definitely hooked up. I get within 0.02 volts of
>main bus voltage on terminal 3. Looks good to me!
>
>I'm stumped. Gonna call B&C in the morning! Thanks Bob and everybody who
>gave me suggestions, I really appreciate it!
Very good. A talk with B&C is the next logical step.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery |
troubles
>
>
>Humm...well, this begs the question: Is the old 17ah battery bad, dead or
>operating normally?
>
>I was quick to dismiss the battery sucking down 65 amps (that was the peak
>before I shut it down) in charge and low capacity to turn the engine over as
>abnormal, and just labeled it- "BAD". Am I to infer from this that what the
>battery did could be labeled as normal operation of a thrashed battery? I'd
>like to learn more in this area if others would like to jump in.
>
>The revised plan is to procure 1 new 17ah batt. Test the capacity of the
>bat but simulating several multi-blade starts. If it performs well...I'll
>stop here. If it does not, I will add another 17ah batt in parallel for
>additional cranking power. (I do not have physical space for a single
>larger battery - but do have space for another 17ah a foot away)
>
>Listening with curious ears....
Oh yeah, Matt suggested that the battery might have been
simply discharged . . . dead batteries DO tend to draw a
lot of current when the alternator comes on line.
If you've got a bench charger, attach it to the battery
and watch the voltage with the charger hooked up and give
us those readings too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hartley" <DHartley(at)aascworld.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for source to purchase LED for Cessna Radio |
(Sperry)
Hello, I am looking for a source to purchase the LED that displays the frequency
digits in a Cessna Radio made by Sperry. The local avionics shop wants $100
each, and they frequently burn out, leaving the radio basically useless. I don't
know who manufactures them, but they have a "107" part mark on them, have 16
prongs, and measure about 7/16" wide by 7/8" tall . Any help on locating these
would be appreciated. Thanks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery "jumpers" |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
> #2 wire is needed on LONG runs to reduce voltage drops during
> cranking. If #4 is okay for the cranking circuits when they're
> short, it's also okay to have short segments of #4 wire in the
> system for ease of maintenance. B&C offers custom battery
> cables at
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
>
> but only in 4AWG wire. The notion was that it's important to
> minimize stress on battery terminals (they're often made out
> of lead). The only broken battery terminal I'm aware of had
> 2AWG 22759 wire bolted to it.
Got it. Will look into the B&C stuff. Gotta give them some big-bucks order
in a few days, so a cable or 3 can be added thereto.
>
>
>> The only other lead from the batteries, in our case, is the one to the
>> battery bus itself. That is a # 10.
>
> Yes, and this wire should run from battery bus to hot side
> of battery contactor . . . not directly to the battery.
That is the way we have in the wire book.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 always flashes |
> Very good. A talk with B&C is the next logical step.
Just to follow up here on-list, in case anybody bumps into this problem in
the future...
Spoke with B&C and they said it sounds like the warning light circuit is
just shorted. Repairable, and I'm sending the unit to B&C today.
Thanks again,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Essential Bus Heat Sink |
Just so I am clear on this discussion. It is my understanding that the
diode is not the problem, it is the regulator. What Tim at B&C told me
was that because this is a PM alternator, the regulator generates a lot
of heat.
Ross
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Well, last I checked power=volts * amps. Therefore the diode
> we will assume
> is a Schottky, with low voltage drop, let's assume 0.5 Volt.
> Then you said
> you have 10Amps, so .5*10=5Watts. 5 Watts will generate some
> heat in an
> enclosed box, however having the diode mounted such that it
> is open to the
> air should be enough to keep it cool. A good way to check it
> is to connect
> it up and turn every thing on and lightly touch it, if it is
> really hot then
> put heat sink on it.
>
> Regards,
> Trampas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for source to purchase LED for |
Cessna Radio (Sperry)
>
>
>Hello, I am looking for a source to purchase the LED that displays the
>frequency digits in a Cessna Radio made by Sperry. The local avionics shop
>wants $100 each, and they frequently burn out, leaving the radio basically
>useless. I don't know who manufactures them, but they have a "107" part
>mark on them, have 16 prongs, and measure about 7/16" wide by 7/8" tall .
>Any help on locating these would be appreciated. Thanks.
I'm sorry, I have no familiarity with this product.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
Here are the results for the 17ah battery that would not turn the motor over
during start attempts:
Measured today - temp 65-degrees - Using a 1amp "Battery Minder" charger:
Standing voltage: 12.85v
Charging volts: 13.09v (charger seemed to increase voltage until reaching a
peak, then dropped to this)
Measured yesterday after engine run attempts with booster: (using 10amp
automobile charger) - 75-degrees
standing voltage 12.2v
charging voltage 13.8v - but pulled about 15amps on the charger meter
Thoughts?
-James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery
troubles
> Oh yeah, Matt suggested that the battery might have been
> simply discharged . . . dead batteries DO tend to draw a
> lot of current when the alternator comes on line.
>
> If you've got a bench charger, attach it to the battery
> and watch the voltage with the charger hooked up and give
> us those readings too.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon(at)tir.com> |
Hi guys,
I'm upgrading the AM FM CD player in my RV-6 and ran into something that caught
me off guard.
The original stereo was setup with the output shielded from inside the case. The
new stereo has no provision for doing that. Old stereo was a Eclipse and a
Flight come 403 intercom. The new setup is JVC stereo and a DRE-244e intercom.
The question: Is it necessary to shield the output from the stereo to the intercom?
If it necessary to shield it, can I start the shielding from the stereo
at the stereo harness?
Thanks for your help,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
The whole thing with a battery is that knowing the voltage does not
correlate to knowing the condition of battery. If you know the battery is in
good condition, the voltage does correlates to the charge level of the
battery, but if the battery is not in a good condition then all bets are
off.
Here is a nice little tip, take a headlight from a car and connect across a
charged battery and while the load is connected measure the voltage. This
will put a load on the battery and then the voltage will be more valuable
for determining if the battery is good.
I am betting that you have a cell on your battery which is shorted. The
battery will charge up and read 12V standing as the battery will act like a
capacitor, however the moment you put a load on the battery the voltage will
drop to 10V or below. Plus since the cell is shorted the alternator and/or
battery charger will always think the battery is not fully charged and put
lots of current into battery trying to charge it.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Redmon
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery
troubles
Here are the results for the 17ah battery that would not turn the motor over
during start attempts:
Measured today - temp 65-degrees - Using a 1amp "Battery Minder" charger:
Standing voltage: 12.85v
Charging volts: 13.09v (charger seemed to increase voltage until reaching a
peak, then dropped to this)
Measured yesterday after engine run attempts with booster: (using 10amp
automobile charger) - 75-degrees
standing voltage 12.2v
charging voltage 13.8v - but pulled about 15amps on the charger meter
Thoughts?
-James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery
troubles
> Oh yeah, Matt suggested that the battery might have been
> simply discharged . . . dead batteries DO tend to draw a
> lot of current when the alternator comes on line.
>
> If you've got a bench charger, attach it to the battery
> and watch the voltage with the charger hooked up and give
> us those readings too.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Filter for Garmin GPS 400 ??!? |
Hi Bob and all,
My friend Igor was tinkering with the intercooler ducts when a radio
technician went into the hangar and had a look at our project. He said in
case of interference between the GPS receiver and the VHF, Garmin advises to
install some "nudge"(?!) filter at the rear of the receiver.
I was not present so I was unable to ask more precise questions.
Is it possible he was talking of a NOTCH filter to be intalles on the
TRANSCEIVER antenna, as specified in the GPS intallation manual ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Filter for Garmin GPS 400 ??!? |
Yes, he's talking about the notch filter.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GT
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Filter for Garmin GPS 400 ??!?
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
My friend Igor was tinkering with the intercooler ducts when a radio
technician went into the hangar and had a look at our project. He said
in
case of interference between the GPS receiver and the VHF, Garmin
advises to
install some "nudge"(?!) filter at the rear of the receiver.
I was not present so I was unable to ask more precise questions.
Is it possible he was talking of a NOTCH filter to be intalles on the
TRANSCEIVER antenna, as specified in the GPS intallation manual ?
Thanks,
Gilles
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery |
troubles
>
>Here are the results for the 17ah battery that would not turn the motor over
>during start attempts:
>
>Measured today - temp 65-degrees - Using a 1amp "Battery Minder" charger:
>Standing voltage: 12.85v
>Charging volts: 13.09v (charger seemed to increase voltage until reaching a
>peak, then dropped to this)
>
>Measured yesterday after engine run attempts with booster: (using 10amp
>automobile charger) - 75-degrees
>standing voltage 12.2v
>charging voltage 13.8v - but pulled about 15amps on the charger meter
If it's accepting 15A at 13.8 volts at the terminals, then the
battery IS in a state of discharge. I'd recommend you leave the
batteryminder
on it over night and then repeat your earlier test.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stereo output |
Dave,
Try it unshielded, mine is...I doubt if it needs to be. Mine has a couple
of banana plugs from the back of the stereo to the audio panel.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm upgrading the AM FM CD player in my RV-6 and ran into something that
caught me off guard.
>
> The original stereo was setup with the output shielded from inside the
case. The new stereo has no provision for doing that. Old stereo was a
Eclipse and a Flight come 403 intercom. The new setup is JVC stereo and a
DRE-244e intercom.
>
> The question: Is it necessary to shield the output from the stereo to the
intercom? If it necessary to shield it, can I start the shielding from the
stereo at the stereo harness?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
> If it's accepting 15A at 13.8 volts at the terminals, then the
> battery IS in a state of discharge. I'd recommend you leave the
> batteryminder
> on it over night and then repeat your earlier test.
OK, I charged the 17ah battery all day...now the Battery Minder has a
blinking light (means it is charged).
Reminder: Canard pusher Z-12 design with PM starter (SkyTek), new high
compression IO-360, aft mounted battery/relays/starter, .3 ohms from batt
ground terminal to all points on the engine, all wired with #4 and #2 wire.
I first tested the cranking ability of the big 26ah Panasonic battery with
the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on battery terminals)
12.5v starting charge - static
12.3v with master on - minimal consumption
9.5v when starter engaged and turning
Note: turns engine over easily, at least 10 blades, four tries, still has
more to go.
7.2v when starter engaged after multiple tries but prop no longer turning
12.2v after flogging with master off
Immediate attempt to charge - registers 12 amps at 13.3v on automotive
charger.
Next, I tested the cranking ability of the freshly charged 17ah Panasonic
battery with the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on battery
terminals)
12.9v starting charge - static
12.6v with master on - minimal consumption
6.1v when starter engaged and (barely) turning
Note: barely turns engine over, get 2 blades then prop stops, two more
tries, will no longer turn prop.
12.3v after flogging with master off
Immediate attempt to charge - registers 15amps @ 13.6v on automotive
charger.
OK, you gurus...tell me what the heck is going on?!?!?
Still stumped...
-James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
I think I just took the stereo output of our Sony AM/FM/CD (via RCA jacks)
to the input of our DRE-244e.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
> von Linsowe
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:38 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm upgrading the AM FM CD player in my RV-6 and ran into
> something that caught me off guard.
>
> The original stereo was setup with the output shielded from
> inside the case. The new stereo has no provision for doing that.
> Old stereo was a Eclipse and a Flight come 403 intercom. The
> new setup is JVC stereo and a DRE-244e intercom.
>
> The question: Is it necessary to shield the output from the
> stereo to the intercom? If it necessary to shield it, can I
> start the shielding from the stereo at the stereo harness?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for source to purchase LED for Cessna Radio |
(Sperry)
LED displays are fairly standard so you should be able to find one that will
work. I assume that the 107 is a Cessna part number that they stamped on
some display they bought from another manufacturer that may or may not still
exist.
Displays are either common annode (one common + pin and the rest of the
pins - for each segment) or common cathode (one common - pin and the rest +
for each segment). They are "usually" a standard pin configuration. You
should be able to find the same size and configuration from another
manufacturer. I assume that being 16 pins it is a two digit display with
either one or no decimal points.
If you measure accross the pins with a meter you should be able to figure
out which pin is common, if it is common cathode or anode and which pins go
to what segments. A sure fire way to get it down is to remove the display
and light the segments with a 9V battery and a 2K resistor.
I did a quick search in a few catalogs and didn't see one like you need, but
if you do some web searching using keywords optoelectronic LED seven segment
display you will find a bunch of manufacturers. Happy hunting! If you find
something that will work you will probably want to replace them all to keep
the exact same color and brightness.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Hartley
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for source to purchase LED for
Cessna Radio (Sperry)
Hello, I am looking for a source to purchase the LED that displays the
frequency digits in a Cessna Radio made by Sperry. The local avionics shop
wants $100 each, and they frequently burn out, leaving the radio basically
useless. I don't know who manufactures them, but they have a "107" part mark
on them, have 16 prongs, and measure about 7/16" wide by 7/8" tall . Any
help on locating these would be appreciated. Thanks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please
immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail
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intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is
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you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery |
troubles
>
> > If it's accepting 15A at 13.8 volts at the terminals, then the
> > battery IS in a state of discharge. I'd recommend you leave the
> > batteryminder
> > on it over night and then repeat your earlier test.
>
>OK, I charged the 17ah battery all day...now the Battery Minder has a
>blinking light (means it is charged).
>
>Reminder: Canard pusher Z-12 design with PM starter (SkyTek), new high
>compression IO-360, aft mounted battery/relays/starter, .3 ohms from batt
>ground terminal to all points on the engine, all wired with #4 and #2 wire.
>
>I first tested the cranking ability of the big 26ah Panasonic battery with
>the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on battery terminals)
>12.5v starting charge - static
>12.3v with master on - minimal consumption
>9.5v when starter engaged and turning
>Note: turns engine over easily, at least 10 blades, four tries, still has
>more to go.
>7.2v when starter engaged after multiple tries but prop no longer turning
>12.2v after flogging with master off
>
>Immediate attempt to charge - registers 12 amps at 13.3v on automotive
>charger.
>
>Next, I tested the cranking ability of the freshly charged 17ah Panasonic
>battery with the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on battery
>terminals)
>12.9v starting charge - static
>12.6v with master on - minimal consumption
>6.1v when starter engaged and (barely) turning
>Note: barely turns engine over, get 2 blades then prop stops, two more
>tries, will no longer turn prop.
>12.3v after flogging with master off
>
>Immediate attempt to charge - registers 15amps @ 13.6v on automotive
>charger.
>
>OK, you gurus...tell me what the heck is going on?!?!?
The Panasonic is probably bad. They test here at 300 to 400A
for 9 volts at the terminals.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon(at)tir.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stereo output |
I had originally intended to use the RCA jacks which are the "line out" intended
for use with an amplifier, but the tech at DRE told me to use the speaker lines
to get enough volume.
So has there been any issue with having enough volume?
Thanks,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: James E. Clark
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
I think I just took the stereo output of our Sony AM/FM/CD (via RCA jacks)
to the input of our DRE-244e.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
> von Linsowe
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:38 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm upgrading the AM FM CD player in my RV-6 and ran into
> something that caught me off guard.
>
> The original stereo was setup with the output shielded from
> inside the case. The new stereo has no provision for doing that.
> Old stereo was a Eclipse and a Flight come 403 intercom. The
> new setup is JVC stereo and a DRE-244e intercom.
>
> The question: Is it necessary to shield the output from the
> stereo to the intercom? If it necessary to shield it, can I
> start the shielding from the stereo at the stereo harness?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Dimming Multiple LEDs |
BOB ..I have several LEDs as warning lamps for various devices (primary,
secondary alt failure etc.) How can I attach these devices to my dimming bus
(B&C dimmer) so I can dim them?
Thanks..
David Schaefer
RV6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement |
Bob et.al.
I have a Rotax 912 and I thought (Z-16 as is) was ideal for my purpose
until I did a load analysis which threw me into a quandary.
I found that I was left with only two items on the Main Bus and
everything else was on the Endurance Bus (nee Essential Bus) and it
seemed to me to be a bit of a misnomer to call a bus the Main Bus with
only two items on it. I also have an electric trim which ideally should
be fed directly from the battery.
I am therefore contemplating changing the Endurance Bus to a Battery Bus
(for the trim + a couple of other items) to be connected as per Z-16 but
without the alternate feed switch and putting everything else on the
Main Bus. To accommodate failure of the main contactor (ie to provide
an alternate feed to the Main Bus), I am proposing a three or four pole,
double throw switch (30VDC 20A contacts) be connected between the
battery side of the main contactor and the Main Bus ie in parallel with
the main contactor using the normally open contacts of two or three
poles of this switch for this purpose. The only problem I can see is
that when this switch is turned on, there is now a current path
available through it for the starter contactor. To prohibit this, I am
proposing to put the normally closed side of one of the poles of the
same switch in series with the Starter Switch circuit to the starter
contactor. The diode between the Main Bus and the Endurance Bus on Z-16
would no longer be necessary.
Caveat - all items on the Main Bus will be controlled by their own
on/off switches for load shedding purposes.
My question:- Is this idea sound or is there something glaringly wrong
with this proposition?
Thank you in anticipation.
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Builder in Oz.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Rotax - Grounding of Shielded Ignition Switch Wires |
Bob,
Rotax stipulate that the shielding of the wires to the ignition switches
should be grounded at BOTH ends.
I would really like to wire mine as per Z-16 so am trying to convince
myself that by virtue of making these shields common at the ignition
switches like you do, they are in fact grounded at both ends.
Is this correct?
Many thanks
Kingsley Hurst
Europa builder in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stereo output |
I used the speaker level outs on my Pioneer/ DRE244 combo, volume is
just fine.
Jeff Point
Dave von Linsowe wrote:
>
>I had originally intended to use the RCA jacks which are the "line out" intended
for use with an amplifier, but the tech at DRE told me to use the speaker lines
to get enough volume.
>
>So has there been any issue with having enough volume?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Field alternator circuit breaker |
During my last flight, the 5A field alternator circuit breaker tripped,
which took the alternator offline. Cut back on electricity draining
devices and made it home safe and sound. I also had a second battery I
could have brought on line if I needed it.
Took the alternator to the auto store and it checked out fine. The output
cable from the alternator was loose when I pulled it out of the airplane,
so thought that might be the problem. I put it back in, cinched on the
bolt and took off to test it. My output was better @ 13.5 volts...until
the circuit breaker tripped again.
I'm wondering what I should be looking for that might be causing this
phenomenon. I have the crowbar overvoltage component from B&C. The
alternator doesn't appear to be putting out too much voltage, though. Any
ideas where I should look?
John Karnes
Zenith 601 HDS
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Works fine.
I have had no complaints about volume from anyone in about 300 hours of
flight time on the plane.
I seem to recall that the intercom has a gain of "1" so your supply needs to
have enough "ummph" to drive the headset to a decent level. The problem I
have with going to the speaker out is that some of these radios have 30-50
watt output amps on them!! Easy to blow your $1000 Bose with your $100 Sony.
I prefer to just crank the volume level up (takes about 3/4 of total) to a
level that is comfortable.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
> von Linsowe
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:31 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
>
>
>
>
> I had originally intended to use the RCA jacks which are the
> "line out" intended for use with an amplifier, but the tech at
> DRE told me to use the speaker lines to get enough volume.
>
> So has there been any issue with having enough volume?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James E. Clark
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:59 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
>
>
>
>
> I think I just took the stereo output of our Sony AM/FM/CD (via
> RCA jacks)
> to the input of our DRE-244e.
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
> > von Linsowe
> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:38 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo output
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I'm upgrading the AM FM CD player in my RV-6 and ran into
> > something that caught me off guard.
> >
> > The original stereo was setup with the output shielded from
> > inside the case. The new stereo has no provision for doing that.
> > Old stereo was a Eclipse and a Flight come 403 intercom. The
> > new setup is JVC stereo and a DRE-244e intercom.
> >
> > The question: Is it necessary to shield the output from the
> > stereo to the intercom? If it necessary to shield it, can I
> > start the shielding from the stereo at the stereo harness?
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMONDAY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
Just had a similiar problem.... seems a com radio was drawing a whole lot of
juice during transmit... happened a couple of times, wasn't sure what it was
just noticed it was popped, but then the radio fryed on transmit and popped
both alternator breakers! Might check and see if it is popping under load.
John Monday
KR2S
Laguna Beach, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cameron Kurth <n916kilo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | King KI208 connector |
Does anyone know where I can find a connector for a King KI208? I've called all
the avionics shops around here and they won't even order one for me.
Thanks
Cam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Martin" <niceez(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
You are not the first person to have this problem -
Start looking fro rubbed through insulation to bare wire, the ends of the
connections making contact or and short to ground.
Over time, (and many positive G's ;-)) I think one of the wire on this
airplane had rubbed through the insulation and was causing a fault just like
yours. My cure was to remake the entire electrical system while perform
panel upgrade surgery.
Dr Martin ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Field alternator circuit breaker
>
> During my last flight, the 5A field alternator circuit breaker tripped,
> which took the alternator offline. Cut back on electricity draining
> devices and made it home safe and sound. I also had a second battery I
> could have brought on line if I needed it.
>
> Took the alternator to the auto store and it checked out fine. The output
> cable from the alternator was loose when I pulled it out of the airplane,
> so thought that might be the problem. I put it back in, cinched on the
> bolt and took off to test it. My output was better @ 13.5 volts...until
> the circuit breaker tripped again.
>
> I'm wondering what I should be looking for that might be causing this
> phenomenon. I have the crowbar overvoltage component from B&C. The
> alternator doesn't appear to be putting out too much voltage, though. Any
> ideas where I should look?
>
> John Karnes
> Zenith 601 HDS
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax - Grounding of Shielded Ignition |
Switch Wires
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Rotax stipulate that the shielding of the wires to the ignition switches
>should be grounded at BOTH ends.
>
>I would really like to wire mine as per Z-16 so am trying to convince
>myself that by virtue of making these shields common at the ignition
>switches like you do, they are in fact grounded at both ends.
No, Figure Z-16 uses the shields to supply a ground to the
ignition switches. The shields find electrical system ground
at the engine end only . . .
>
>
>Is this correct?
There are over 100,000 airplanes flying wherein the "if-one-ground-
is-good-two-is-better" doctrine has been applied and the engine
functions just fine. However, there are many airplanes also flying
wired per figure Z-16 and the engine functions fine too. The
two-grounds or not-two-grounds question has more to do with noise
and ground loop avoidance which is almost never a concern for the
average power-plant guy. Either technique will not affect the
operation of your power plant and many aircraft operate in both
configurations.
Figure Z-16 is the best we know how to do in planning
ahead for avoiding future problems and is pretty low on the list
of concerns. Two grounds present a significant risk to ship's
wiring when the engine tries to find cranking current ground
through other wires if the crankcase jumper is left off. Had
a mechanic on our airport do it twice! I didn't give him
a third chance . . .
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement |
>
>
>Bob et.al.
>
>I have a Rotax 912 and I thought (Z-16 as is) was ideal for my purpose
>until I did a load analysis which threw me into a quandary.
>
>I found that I was left with only two items on the Main Bus and
>everything else was on the Endurance Bus (nee Essential Bus) and it
>seemed to me to be a bit of a misnomer to call a bus the Main Bus with
>only two items on it. I also have an electric trim which ideally should
>be fed directly from the battery.
>
>I am therefore contemplating changing the Endurance Bus to a Battery Bus
>(for the trim + a couple of other items) to be connected as per Z-16 but
>without the alternate feed switch and putting everything else on the
>Main Bus. To accommodate failure of the main contactor (ie to provide
>an alternate feed to the Main Bus), I am proposing a three or four pole,
>double throw switch (30VDC 20A contacts) be connected between the
>battery side of the main contactor and the Main Bus ie in parallel with
>the main contactor using the normally open contacts of two or three
>poles of this switch for this purpose. The only problem I can see is
>that when this switch is turned on, there is now a current path
>available through it for the starter contactor. To prohibit this, I am
>proposing to put the normally closed side of one of the poles of the
>same switch in series with the Starter Switch circuit to the starter
>contactor. The diode between the Main Bus and the Endurance Bus on Z-16
>would no longer be necessary.
>
>Caveat - all items on the Main Bus will be controlled by their own
>on/off switches for load shedding purposes.
>
>My question:- Is this idea sound or is there something glaringly wrong
>with this proposition?
>
>Thank you in anticipation.
>
>Kingsley Hurst
>Europa Builder in Oz.
What items are powered from each bus?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pascal Gosselin <pascal(at)aeroteknic.com> |
| Subject: | MIL-W-22759/16 flammability ? |
Has anyone here had to deal with this nonsense ?
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/certification/engineering/avionics/Workshop03/V0311-08.htm
We buy our wiring from EDMO, I'm trying to reach them for a comment on this
but their phones seem overly busy this morning.
-Pascal
+---------------------------+
Pascal Gosselin
pascal(at)aeroteknic.com
tel. (450) 676-6299
fax. (450) 676-2760
cell. (514) 298-3343
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Filter for Garmin GPS 400 ??!? |
Bruce,
Thank you for your response.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Filter for Garmin GPS 400 ??!?
>
> Yes, he's talking about the notch filter.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
....................................
>
> Is it possible he was talking of a NOTCH filter to be intalles on the
> TRANSCEIVER antenna, as specified in the GPS intallation manual ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> You are not the first person to have this problem -
>
> Start looking fro rubbed through insulation to bare wire, the ends of the
> connections making contact or and short to ground.
If a wire were shorted to ground on a circuit protected by a fuse, wouldn't
the fuse blow? Should I limit my search some wire not protected by a fuse?
John Karnes
N601JK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Round connector with D-sub pins? |
Bob,
Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
D-sub connector? If so, source?
Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
TIA for a great service provided.
Regards, Doug Windhorn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hartley" <DHartley(at)aascworld.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for source to purchase filament light for Cessna |
Radio (Sperry RT385A)
Hello, I am looking for a source to purchase the filament bulb that displays the
frequency digits in a Cessna Radio made by Sperry. The local avionics shop wants
$100 each, and they frequently burn out, leaving the radio basically useless.
I don't know who manufactures them, but they have a "107" part mark on them,
have 16 prongs, and measure about 7/16" wide by 7/8" tall . My previous post
erroneously indicated that these were LED's. Any help on locating these would
be appreciated. Thanks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately
notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail transmission
may contain confidential information. This information is intended only
for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed
incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended
recipient. Thank you for your compliance
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg.Puckett(at)united.com |
| Subject: | RE: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
Doug,
I used an AMP CPC (circular plastic connector) series 2. They uses
standard d-sub pins and sockets and are available from allied
electronics.
see:
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp=3FFN91.pdf
Greg Puckett
Subject: Round connector with D-sub pins=3F
From: N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com
Date: Tue Mar 30 - 2:24 PM
Bob,
Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
standard
D-sub connector=3F If so, source=3F
Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
easier.
Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
TIA for a great service provided.
Regards, Doug Windhorn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
>
>Bob,
>
>Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
>D-sub connector? If so, source?
>
>Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
>Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>TIA for a great service provided.
You're welcome!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
>
>Bob,
>
>Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
>D-sub connector? If so, source?
>
>Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
>Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>TIA for a great service provided.
You're welcome!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flmike <flmike2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for source to purchase filament light for |
Cessna
Try Wamco
I used them on a gov't project many moons ago and they
still make em. Be advised though, they are not likely
to be cheap. Not many users of that technology
anymore. Give them a call, good folks.
www.wamcoinc.com
fl-mike
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MIL-W-22759/16 flammability ? |
>
>
>
>Has anyone here had to deal with this nonsense ?
>
>http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/certification/engineering/avionics/Workshop03/V0311-08.htm
>
>We buy our wiring from EDMO, I'm trying to reach them for a comment on this
>but their phones seem overly busy this morning.
>
>-Pascal
First I've heard of any "problems" with this wire. It's been
the material of choice at RAC for nearly 30 years. While
perhaps a significant design concern on air transport category
aircraft, I'll suggest it's a tempest-in-a-teapot for
little airplanes. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <Robin.Wessel(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | King KR-22 wiring diagram |
I just bought a used KR-22 marker beacon rec. off of e-bay.
Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram?
Additionally, I looked up Mouser, Digi-key, and Molex for a 18 pin edge
card connector for as well. Any sources beyond a $100 install kit from
king?
thanks,
robin wessel
RV-10 wings
Tigard, OR
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
>
>
>During my last flight, the 5A field alternator circuit breaker tripped,
>which took the alternator offline. Cut back on electricity draining
>devices and made it home safe and sound. I also had a second battery I
>could have brought on line if I needed it.
>
>Took the alternator to the auto store and it checked out fine. The output
>cable from the alternator was loose when I pulled it out of the airplane,
>so thought that might be the problem. I put it back in, cinched on the
>bolt and took off to test it. My output was better @ 13.5 volts...until
>the circuit breaker tripped again.
13.5 volts is a tad low. What kind of voltage regulator are you
using? Were you switching any other accessory(ies) when the trip
occurred?
What has your voltage been running in recent flights before the
trip?
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: King KR-22 wiring diagram |
Robin:
Try contacting Eastern Avionics for the molex connector. Very helpful
folks. They even may be able to help you out with the wiring diagram.
Go to www.easternavionics.com and check their inventory. I would advise
calling them too to make sure they have what is listed.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
Panel
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Wessel" <Robin.Wessel(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KR-22 wiring diagram
>
> I just bought a used KR-22 marker beacon rec. off of e-bay.
>
> Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram?
>
> Additionally, I looked up Mouser, Digi-key, and Molex for a 18 pin edge
> card connector for as well. Any sources beyond a $100 install kit from
> king?
>
> thanks,
>
> robin wessel
> RV-10 wings
> Tigard, OR
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement |
Bob,
In relation to my original message below, you asked ...... What items
are powered from each bus?
Not sure if you mean each bus as per original Z-16 or the busses I am
proposing so will list what I am proposing.
MAIN BUS - normal feed as per Z-16 plus alternate feed thru proposed
multipole switch.
AH - electronic
Airmaster CS propeller
Auto Pilot
Engine Monitor
Fuel pump (Facet) - backs up mech pump
GPS
OV disconnect relay
Radio VHF
Starter contactor circuit
Strobe
Tacho
Transponder
Turn co-ordinator
Correction to yesterday's posting ........... All items on the main bus
with the exception of OV disconnect relay, Starter Relay circuit and
Tacho will be able to be switched off.
BATTERY BUS
MAC electric trim
Cabin & Panel Flood lights
Aux Power Outlets - for tyre pump, decanting fuel pump, airbed pump etc.
Bob, this was not a consideration when I thought of the idea as I have
only just this moment realised that as per standard Z-16, a battery
contactor failure (rare I know) would automatically put the alternator
off line. The switch I am proposing would allow alternator power to be
restored for this failure mode. Not a big deal I know but can't see why
this option would be a bad thing.
Be gentle on me please....... promise not to laugh and thanks again for
your time.
Kingsley
********************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement
>
>
>Bob et.al.
>
>I have a Rotax 912 and I thought (Z-16 as is) was ideal for my purpose
>until I did a load analysis which threw me into a quandary.
>
>I found that I was left with only two items on the Main Bus and
>everything else was on the Endurance Bus (nee Essential Bus) and it
>seemed to me to be a bit of a misnomer to call a bus the Main Bus with
>only two items on it. I also have an electric trim which ideally
should
>be fed directly from the battery.
>
>I am therefore contemplating changing the Endurance Bus to a Battery
Bus
>(for the trim + a couple of other items) to be connected as per Z-16
but
>without the alternate feed switch and putting everything else on the
>Main Bus. To accommodate failure of the main contactor (ie to provide
>an alternate feed to the Main Bus), I am proposing a three or four
pole,
>double throw switch (30VDC 20A contacts) be connected between the
>battery side of the main contactor and the Main Bus ie in parallel with
>the main contactor using the normally open contacts of two or three
>poles of this switch for this purpose. The only problem I can see is
>that when this switch is turned on, there is now a current path
>available through it for the starter contactor. To prohibit this, I am
>proposing to put the normally closed side of one of the poles of the
>same switch in series with the Starter Switch circuit to the starter
>contactor. The diode between the Main Bus and the Endurance Bus on
Z-16
>would no longer be necessary.
>
>Caveat - all items on the Main Bus will be controlled by their own
>on/off switches for load shedding purposes.
>
>My question:- Is this idea sound or is there something glaringly wrong
>with this proposition?
>
>Thank you in anticipation.
>
>Kingsley Hurst
>Europa Builder in Oz.
What items are powered from each bus?
Bob . . .
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | LOAD DUMP--- Protection design test status |
This is just a update of progress so far in defining the characteristics of
the Alternator Load Dump and how to clamp it to prevent other system damage
from overvoltage during an Load Dump event (hopefully you will never have
one :-) ).
I am teamed (remotely as he is on the other side of the USA) with another
excellent engineer and we have two different designs that both show promise.
I now have all the materials and all the test equipment to test and
characterize load dumps of up to 40 amps using AC motor driven alternators
of 55-60 amp rating; one with an internal regulator, and one with an exernal
regulator.
Once the dump is characterized (using real alternators) a capacitor bank of
up to 200,000 mfd TBD will be charged to up to 80 volts TBD and discharged
thru 2 ohms TBD to simulate the event in a more repeatable way. Dumps of 10
thru 40 amps will be simulated and the supressor designs will be evaluated.
The initial design goal is for voltage clamping to start at 17V and limit
the peak V to under 20V to cover some electronics that have 20V max ratings.
Also it appears this is an achievable design requirement. Both designs are a
simple two terminal device so it will be easy to install.
The test schedule, like everything done on a "time available", is behind my
original estimate and I now expect to have reportable results late in April.
Success schedule! :-)
The test equipment is Calibrated Tektronics and results will include voltage
and current waveforms as well as other parameters and the specific test
setups.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector |
Anyone know where I can get one for less than it's weight in gold? The
best I've found so far is a minimum 2 order at $75 each.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Dear Bob,
Please accept my humble apologies for a mistake I made in my previous
posting a few hours ago.
In my stupor I made the revelation that in respect of Z-16, if the main
contactor failed, the alternator would go off line. How stupid?
My brain finally engaged before and I realised the error of my ways, the
OV relay will be held up by the alternator itself of course.
Yes it is quite true that one should keep ones mouth shut and let others
think one is a fool rather than to open it and prove so. Embarrassing
to say the least.
Best regards
Kingsley Hurst
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector |
Try www.findchips.com. for stock etc.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard(at)riley.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector
>
> Anyone know where I can get one for less than it's weight in gold? The
> best I've found so far is a minimum 2 order at $75 each.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
Sam,
I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I have a
medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to a
wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the intercom.
This Spring, I'm going to try more shielding around the ignition wires
and plugs (Nippodenso plugs). I'm using RG-400 and I was very careful to
use shielded wires and ground all the shields per Klaus's plans. It's
tolerable for VFR flying but not good enough for IFR safety.
--Kent
> From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)mchsi.com>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:43:21 -0600
> To: "Aerolectric List"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux
>
>
> I am not having a lot of luck solving the LSE noise issue. I get a
> background tone is when the LSE is switched on, whether or not the engine is
> running.
>
> At Klaus' request I moved the com antenna coax away from the LSE 12V power
> leads. I shielded the 12V lead running from the battery to the CB. I then
> bridged the shielding across the CB so it connects with the shield on the
> 12V input lead.
> I still get the noise through my headset if the LSE is "ON", though it seems
> to have diminished somewhat.
>
> I tried installing the Radio Shack noise filter. At my first run, the
> capacitor blew up. The markings on the capacitor are not intuitive and I
> apparently got the polarity wrong. Went to R.S. and bought a replacement
> 220 microfarad, this time I got a 35V version.
>
> I hooked it up again. At first there seemed to be no change. Then, after a
> little fiddling, the tone seemed to fade in and out, as if someone was
> slowly turning a volume control. Then, after that, I still got the tone
> quite steady.
>
> The only thing I have not yet done is to run the LSE shielded ground (yes
> shielded, it is not shown on the on-line versions, but on my wiring diagram
> the wires coming from pins 15 & 8 on the input connector are shielded
> http://www.lsecorp.com/Manuals/PIIPIIPInputDiagram.htm ) ground from the
> control module, all the way to the battery. Right now the ground is plugged
> into my firewall ground bus.
>
> Has anyone else had noise and radio problems with their LSE Plasma III? I
> could use some experience here.
>
> Thanks
> Sam
> Q-200 ~ 1,350 hours
>
>
> 0noise&replyto=200403240403.i2O435115236(at)matronics.com> >
>
> oise&replyto=200403240403.i2O435115236(at)matronics.com> >
>>
>> I thought I was finished with the installation of my LSE Plasma III into my
>> all composite Q-200. I am running the one mag/one electronic system. I
>> went out for the test flight, but the tower was unable to read me.
>> "Aircraft calling ground, unreadable".
>
> Have you listened to the output from your transmitter? You need
> to have someone else talk to you while you're on a hand held 100'
> or more away. What does the radio sound like? An "unreadable"
> report may have nothing to do with the ignition system. Does the
> tower say you're now quite clear with the ignition system off?
>
>> After I fiddled with the squelch, I found there was a mid-range tone, quite
>> loud, whenever I had the LSE switched ON. I shut down the engine and found
>> the same thing; the noise was just as bad. (I have a Wag-Aero ICS Plus
>> Nav/Com, about 12 years old).
>
> If you're hearing noise in your headphones, then this may not
> have anything to do with the radio. It might be an audio system
> problem.
>
>
>> I called Klaus and he said I was picking up inductive coupling from the
>> oscillator. I admit I had diverted from his instructions just a little
> bit.
>> For the 12V supply I ran an unshielded wire from the battery to a 5A
> breaker
>> in the panel. From there, his shielded wire runs to the LSE brain box.
> The
>> shielded ground wire runs from the brain box to the ground buss, which is
>> mounted about 18" aft of the firewall. His instructions say it should go
>> all the way to the battery.
>
> shielded ground wire?????
>
>
>> My com antenna lead is RG58 and it runs in intimate proximity with the
>> unshielded 12V supply line to the battery. The com antenna is in the
>> vertical stab, and the battery is in the baggage compartment, aft of the
>> passenger seat.
>
> If you are hearing power supply noise from the ignition system
> then it's 1000% better to filter it off at the source than
> to re-route wires in an attempt to "live with the noise".
>
>
>> Klaus suggested separating the com antenna leads from any power leads, and
>> run shielded wire, straight to the battery per plans, including the CB.
> That
>> is what I now intend to do.
>>
>>
>> Any more thoughts or suggestions?
>
> These are all shots in the dark. Have you read the chapter on
> noise? What experiments have you run to make sure we're talking
> about the right antagonist, the right victim and then isolate
> the propagation mode? If Klaus or anyone else has you changing
> configuration of your installation wiring in an attempt to mitigate
> a noise problem, then they're admitting that their product isn't
> really suited for installation in your airplane.
>
> Let's chop and hack on things because we've deduced the
> action to be a useful thing to try instead of trying lots
> of things because they "might" help.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>Please accept my humble apologies for a mistake I made in my previous
>posting a few hours ago.
>
>In my stupor I made the revelation that in respect of Z-16, if the main
>contactor failed, the alternator would go off line. How stupid?
>
>My brain finally engaged before and I realised the error of my ways, the
>OV relay will be held up by the alternator itself of course.
>
>Yes it is quite true that one should keep ones mouth shut and let others
>think one is a fool rather than to open it and prove so. Embarrassing
>to say the least.
Instead of "embarrassing" let us call it "educational". Every
week I participate in meetings where a LOT of ideas and hypotheses
are thrown out . . . many with great conviction and enthusiasm.
Like the human genome (5% "data" and 95% "chaos") it turns out
that the chaos is sort of the binder which contains data in various
orders (the difference between men and mice is more how their
data is arranged in the binder than in any major differences
of data).
The skills to strive for involve sifting apparent chaos
for data and fitting it together into solutions supported
by simple-ideas. If you allow this experience to be inhibiting
as a potential for embarrassment, then your ability to contribute
anything toward the solution is damaged. Please continue to
participate at what ever level you can in any investigation
of simple-ideas. Just change your focus to sifting for simple-ideas
and finding how they fit together into solutions. Yes, there
will be a lot of chaff but unless we do a good job of sifting
through ALL of it, important data may not be recovered.
The other side of the coin suggests that if the rest of us
are similarly focused there should be no behavior or reaction
from listeners that encourages embarrassment on the part of
speakers. We are all simultaneously teachers and students.
Nobody learns well in a hostile environment. Our public
schools are a living testament to that fact. Every night
before I go to bed, if I can reflect upon something
new I learned that day, it's a GOOD day. If, from time to
time, I can look back on an assemblage of simple-ideas that
solved a problem, it's a GREAT day.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector |
>
>Try www.findchips.com. for stock etc.
Call Grant Helmer at 316.788.0400 I forget the
name of his company right now but he is my #1 choice
source for small quantities of specialty connectors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
>
>Sam,
> I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I have a
>medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
>My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to a
>wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the intercom.
I had a lot of noise with a Klaus system until (at his suggestion) I
installed automotive resistance wires. Silence after that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | A theoretical question |
I was modeling something in my mind and had a question:
If you took a Z-12 wired aircraft, master on, both 60 and 20amp alternators
turned on, engine running at speed, and all systems nominal - then
disconnected the battery leads. Would the alternators (and systems) stay
alive via the power the alternator(s) produce, or is the battery required to
keep the field power to the regulators/alts?
Just curious....
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Load Analysis - power usage project |
Hi,
What happened to the project of gathering up all the
information about the power used by various instruments
and devices? Sorry if I missed a posting on it. I'm
currently trying to get my Load Analysis finished,
and I miss a few things. I'm using Bob's form:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A theoretical question |
>
>I was modeling something in my mind and had a question:
>
>If you took a Z-12 wired aircraft, master on, both 60 and 20amp alternators
>turned on, engine running at speed, and all systems nominal - then
>disconnected the battery leads. Would the alternators (and systems) stay
>alive via the power the alternator(s) produce, or is the battery required to
>keep the field power to the regulators/alts?
>
>Just curious....
They may . . . and may not. Most likely they'll stay on line
and run self excited but without the filtering benefits of
the battery. One MIGHT consider adding one of those super
capacitors popular with the 4-wheeled hearing-killers.
theres's good reason to suggest that alternator only
operations will be MUCH enhanced by the presence of such
a device in the system. You can find these things all over
the 'net. Ebay has a wad of them offered at any given time.
Once the ripple-filtering issues are addressed by adding
the capacitor, the only variable is strength and duration
of any inrush currents. For example, a hydraulic pump motor
might draw so much startup current that an barefoot alternator
is deprived of field excitation whereupon it "stalls" and
the whole system goes down.
To my present level of knowledge, no certified aircraft
carries this feature (although we considered it on S.E.
Cessnas about 30 years ago . . . don't recall now the
reason for not bringing it into production).
The short answer to your question is: if you're interested
alternator only operation, then give it a try. I'd leave
potentially sensitive devices (stuff with transistor in
them) off line. See if you can open the battery contactor
after the alternator is on line and observe how well the
system behaves. Try turning things on/off. Watch voltage
stability. If things look pretty good, bring a comm radio
up and see how well you hear and how people hear you.
The rational for the split rocker with interlocked battery
and alternator switches was to eliminate the need and/or
opportunity for purposeful operation in this mode. It's
depended upon the behavior of individual models of alternators
and the regulators they are paired with. Cessna/Piper/Beech
et. als. didn't see value in pursuing alternator only ops
as a good marketing ploy or safety enhancement. That doesn't
mean you can't pursue it.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> 13.5 volts is a tad low. What kind of voltage regulator are you
> using?
In retrospect, actual voltage is about 3.8 with the internal regulator.
Were you switching any other accessory(ies) when the trip
> occurred?
Nope.
> What has your voltage been running in recent flights before the
> trip?
Voltage has not been a problem. The connection to the alternator was
loose, so I was losing voltage. Tightened the v-belt and the cable and
voltage has been about 3.8 to 4.0.
Thanks, Bob!
John Karnes
601 HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
Might suggest http://magnecor.com/ for some great information about ignition
wires. Covers aviation and automotive.
Specifically http://magnecor.com/magnecor1/frequent.htm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux
> >Sam,
> > I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I
have a
> >medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
> >My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to
a
> >wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the
intercom.
>
> I had a lot of noise with a Klaus system until (at his suggestion) I
> installed automotive resistance wires. Silence after that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
You wrote: Instead of "embarrassing" let us call it
"educational"....................
Bob,
Thank you for being your normal understanding self. The admiration you
command from those on the list and I imagine elsewhere too is well
deserved.
Kingsley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Inrush Current Limiter ?and/or? Keep-Warm Circuit |
Bob and all,
WRT landing, taxi and position lights: Are the filament keep-warn circuit
and the inrush current limiters compatible? Or are they mutually exclusive?
Will the fact that the filament is already warm adversely affect the ability
of the thermistor to protect the bulb? Or am I misunderstanding the
application completely....? Is the function of the inrush current limiter
just to protect the switch contacts? Or do they also protect (extend the
life of) the bulb(s)?
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Dukes boost pump question |
I'm wiring a Duke's electric boost pump for my Lancair using two switches,
one for high boost and one for low boost. It occurred to me that
inadvertently turning on both could be something that the pump doesn't
like, depending on how it's wired internally. Does anyone know what
happens when both wires (high and low boost) are hot? I can ask Dukes, but
thought I'd try the list first. If for some reason this is a no no, is
there a simple way to wire things so that both can't be hot at once?
Thanks!
Dan O'Brien
Lancair Super ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Gentlemen,
I would like to have in my annunciator group "FIRE" or "HOT" to indicate
that the cowling exit air is hot enough to be concerned about. I know this
has been done on homebuilts in the past by using an automotive radiator
temperature sensor. I think we should be able to do better than that now.
I've seen in Digikey some thermistors that look like they might do the job.
However, there is a bewildering array of sensors. If any of you have
successfully done this, I'd like to know how you did it, what parts you
used, etc.. Simple and reliable is more important than exact temperature.
I just want an LED to light up if things get too hot under the cowl.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question |
Dan
The simplest would be with a single switch which has three positions.
Off, low boost, high boost. Why two separate switches ? This would seem
to be perhaps unduly complicated with the potential to create the
problem you mention. (if it is in fact a problem) If you insist on two
switches for some reason then they could each be wired through a
normally closed contact on the other so that turning on one would deny
the other power. This of course could create a condition of both on
equals power to the pump from neither. Or, use this feature for only one
so that both on equates to low boost. (or high depending on which you
wish to give precedence.)
Bob McC
Dan O'Brien wrote:
>
>I'm wiring a Duke's electric boost pump for my Lancair using two switches,
>one for high boost and one for low boost. It occurred to me that
>inadvertently turning on both could be something that the pump doesn't
>like, depending on how it's wired internally. Does anyone know what
>happens when both wires (high and low boost) are hot? I can ask Dukes, but
>thought I'd try the list first. If for some reason this is a no no, is
>there a simple way to wire things so that both can't be hot at once?
>
>Thanks!
>Dan O'Brien
>Lancair Super ES
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Gentlemen,
Since I posted the original message, I found these Cantherm Encapsulated
Thermostats for Electronics, (F11-E06). One example is Digikey part #
317-1023-ND. It closes at 90 degrees Celsius. Other part numbers represent
similar devices with different temperature ranges. This device looks to me
like it would operate my LED annunciator directly and survive life under the
cowling. Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
At 08:46 PM 3/31/2004, you wrote:
>
> Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
>cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
>Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
They make thermometers with remote probes. Experiment. Probably it is
between 70F and 500F - Oven temps?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Campbell" <GregCampbellUSA(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question |
A simple solution using two commonly available switches is:
First Switch: SPDT for "Boost Select" (Low / High):
Center or Common terminal of switch goes to the fuse for the pump.
The "Low" and "High" wires from the Dukes pump go to opposite poles on the
switch.
Second Switch: SPST switch for "Fuel Boost " (On / Off):
One terminal goes to the "common" wire from the Dukes,
the other terminal goes to ground.
Put the two switches next to each other - so you select: Low/High, Off/On.
The nice part is you can follow the convention of: Down is OFF.
A less conventional solution would be a 3 position ON-OFF-ON switch
with down being LOW, center OFF, and up being HIGH.
Wire this into the Low & High wires - same as above.
Then take the "Common" wire from the pump and ground it.
There is probably some way to wire up an S700-2-10 switch to do an: OFF-LOW-HIGH
function.
Any of these will effectively insure you don't apply power to both the Low & High
wires
at the same time. I too was curious about what would happen should this occur.
But given the cost of a Dukes fuel pump, I wasn't inclined to experiment.
It gets more complicated if you try to incorporate pair of joysticks,
combined with a "stick disable", manual override, panel mount switch, etc..
I think I would like to try a latching relay so I could "pulse" the relay
and toggle the state of the pump (ON/OFF) from any of three inputs.
Any suggestions from the list on a latching relay would be appreciated.
(The pump in question draws about 9 Amps on High.)
Greg
88% Lancair ES
San Francisco CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
There are several types of pyrometer type sensors on the market, many are
used for "fire fighting" robots.
I would personally have two temperature sensors, one for the intake air and
one for the exhaust air temperatures. This would give me a rough idea about
not only if there was fire but also the cooling performance, when combined
with CHT probes.
Also depending what your environment is for the temperature probe you may
just want to use a thermocouple, which are very accurate and can operate in
extreme conditions.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
Stern Technologies
4321 Waterwheel Dr
Raleigh NC 27606
919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
919-832-8441 (fax)
www.sterntech.com
tstern(at)sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hal /
Carol Kempthorne
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Detector
At 08:46 PM 3/31/2004, you wrote:
>
> Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
>cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
>Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
They make thermometers with remote probes. Experiment. Probably it is
between 70F and 500F - Oven temps?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
Well, after reading and studying all the excellent discussions on the "list"
I'm fixin' to get ready to start. There are still a few questions that are
unanswered, mostly to do with the mechanics of it all. Where do people put
their fuse blocks - just stuffed behind the panel or in some really clever
place? What kind of connectors are used? I'm thinking specifically of ones
to go between control surfaces and the airframe - on my rudder there are
position lights, a strobe light and rudder trim for a total of 10 wires.
The removable wingtips also require connectors (the wing/fuselage joint will
be hard-wired). Since these connections are "outside" in the weather I
would like to use sealed connectors. For the bigger power wires
DelphiPackard connectors are easy to get, but a little bulky. I don't have
a solution for the smaller wires.
Gary Casey
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question |
How about a 2-10 switch as illustrated in Figure
>
>
>A simple solution using two commonly available switches is:
>
> First Switch: SPDT for "Boost Select" (Low / High):
> Center or Common terminal of switch goes to the fuse for the pump.
> The "Low" and "High" wires from the Dukes pump go to opposite poles
> on the switch.
>
> Second Switch: SPST switch for "Fuel Boost " (On / Off):
> One terminal goes to the "common" wire from the Dukes,
> the other terminal goes to ground.
>
>Put the two switches next to each other - so you select: Low/High, Off/On.
>The nice part is you can follow the convention of: Down is OFF.
>
>
>A less conventional solution would be a 3 position ON-OFF-ON switch
>with down being LOW, center OFF, and up being HIGH.
>Wire this into the Low & High wires - same as above.
>Then take the "Common" wire from the pump and ground it.
>
>
>There is probably some way to wire up an S700-2-10 switch to do an:
>OFF-LOW-HIGH function.
See figure 11-7 of the 'Connection and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
>Any of these will effectively insure you don't apply power to both the Low
>& High wires
>at the same time. I too was curious about what would happen should this
>occur.
The motor runs in the fast mode
>But given the cost of a Dukes fuel pump, I wasn't inclined to experiment.
>
>
>It gets more complicated if you try to incorporate pair of joysticks,
>combined with a "stick disable", manual override, panel mount switch, etc..
>
>I think I would like to try a latching relay so I could "pulse" the relay
>and toggle the state of the pump (ON/OFF) from any of three inputs.
>Any suggestions from the list on a latching relay would be appreciated.
> (The pump in question draws about 9 Amps on High.)
I am mystified as to the value of adding any complexity. About
1/4th of the flights I've made in 23 years were in airplanes having
two level boost pumps. I've never had an occasion to use/need the
pump in flight. Should the need arise, I would expect necessary
actions to take no more time nor have any greater effect on flight
dynamics than running a tank dry and needing to move the fuel selector.
I'd recommend the 2-10 wired for OFF-LOW-HIGH and keep it
simple.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>Since I posted the original message, I found these Cantherm Encapsulated
>Thermostats for Electronics, (F11-E06). One example is Digikey part #
>317-1023-ND. It closes at 90 degrees Celsius. Other part numbers represent
>similar devices with different temperature ranges. This device looks to me
>like it would operate my LED annunciator directly and survive life under the
>cowling. Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
>cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
>Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
You've got a 40-hour flyoff to do. Suggest you investigate these
values and then enlighten us.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inrush Current Limiter ?and/or? |
Keep-Warm Circuit
>
>
>Bob and all,
>
>WRT landing, taxi and position lights: Are the filament keep-warn circuit
>and the inrush current limiters compatible?
> Or are they mutually exclusive?
>Will the fact that the filament is already warm adversely affect the ability
>of the thermistor to protect the bulb? Or am I misunderstanding the
>application completely....? Is the function of the inrush current limiter
>just to protect the switch contacts? Or do they also protect (extend the
>life of) the bulb(s)?
I'd use automotive halogens and not worry about keep-warm.
You can use inrush limiters but their value is more to reduce
voltage perturbations on the bus and relieve switch stress
than to 'protect' lamps. If you have a keep-warm system, inrush
is automatically mitigated by having warm filaments and a separate
limiter is not necessary.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: getting started |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Gary -
We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
from various lists:
1. Use model airplane connectors (Deans P/N 1005) for the 5 wire things
like trim actiators and stick connections. You could use some shrink wrap
around the whole connector to keep most of the crud out.
2. Bob Nuckolls shows the use of the D-sub machined pins and recepticles,
one for each wire, with shrink wrap to close off each wire and a larger
piece to cover the staggered joints.
3. The small .062 Waldom/Molex like what is on your tail light could be
sealed fairly well with a piece of shrink tubing.
4. Bob also has an article on his web site that shows how to modify a
D-sub or mini d-sub for the trim wiring. He uses Shoo Goo to pot the
terminals after soldering them, and uses a larger diameter piece of shrink
tubing to seal it after it is connected.
Getting fully water proof connectors would probably mean mil spec stuff
and very expensive. Plus they tend to be bulky. I priced 3 prong CPC's and
they are $35-$40 for each half of a connector.
We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that Dave
Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel. I
have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so they
will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not sure
about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk screws
per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's or
20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one could
use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they need
one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
control.
If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
Swartzendruber" )know because he has to
order 24 of the blocks to get get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
but there is room for the 20/8's.
Hope this helps
John Schroeder
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question |
>>>Does anyone know what happens when both wires
>>>(high and low boost) are hot?
>>I too was curious about what would happen should this
>>occur.
>The motor runs in the fast mode.
>I'd recommend the 2-10 wired for OFF-LOW-HIGH and keep it
>simple.
I would prefer a three way switch, but I bought all my
engraved rockers from Lancair who for some reason stopped carrying the three way
switches. The switches are
bought, the panel is cut, and there's lots of room, so I may as well use both.
If the answer is that having both on inadvertently simply means that the unit draws
more current so as to make the motor run at the fast speed, then I guess
Ill just wire both independently and be done with it. Any problem with this?
Thanks for the help,
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>In relation to my original message below, you asked ...... What items
>are powered from each bus?
>
>Not sure if you mean each bus as per original Z-16 or the busses I am
>proposing so will list what I am proposing.
>
>MAIN BUS - normal feed as per Z-16 plus alternate feed thru proposed
>multipole switch.
>AH - electronic
>Airmaster CS propeller
>Auto Pilot
>Engine Monitor
>Fuel pump (Facet) - backs up mech pump
>GPS
>OV disconnect relay
>Radio VHF
>Starter contactor circuit
>Strobe
>Tacho
>Transponder
>Turn co-ordinator
>
>Correction to yesterday's posting ........... All items on the main bus
>with the exception of OV disconnect relay, Starter Relay circuit and
>Tacho will be able to be switched off.
The value of the endurance bus is to mini
>BATTERY BUS
>MAC electric trim
Don't understand the value of putting trim on the battery bus.
>Cabin & Panel Flood lights
>Aux Power Outlets - for tyre pump, decanting fuel pump, airbed pump etc.
>
>Bob, this was not a consideration when I thought of the idea as I have
>only just this moment realised that as per standard Z-16, a battery
>contactor failure (rare I know) would automatically put the alternator
>off line. The switch I am proposing would allow alternator power to be
>restored for this failure mode. Not a big deal I know but can't see why
>this option would be a bad thing.
>
>Be gentle on me please....... promise not to laugh and thanks again for
>your time.
>
>Kingsley
>
>********************************************************
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob et.al.
> >
> >I have a Rotax 912 and I thought (Z-16 as is) was ideal for my purpose
> >until I did a load analysis which threw me into a quandary.
> >
> >I found that I was left with only two items on the Main Bus and
> >everything else was on the Endurance Bus (nee Essential Bus) and it
> >seemed to me to be a bit of a misnomer to call a bus the Main Bus with
> >only two items on it. I also have an electric trim which ideally
>should
> >be fed directly from the battery.
> >
> >I am therefore contemplating changing the Endurance Bus to a Battery
>Bus
> >(for the trim + a couple of other items) to be connected as per Z-16
>but
> >without the alternate feed switch and putting everything else on the
> >Main Bus. To accommodate failure of the main contactor (ie to provide
> >an alternate feed to the Main Bus), I am proposing a three or four
>pole,
> >double throw switch (30VDC 20A contacts) be connected between the
> >battery side of the main contactor and the Main Bus ie in parallel with
> >the main contactor using the normally open contacts of two or three
> >poles of this switch for this purpose. The only problem I can see is
> >that when this switch is turned on, there is now a current path
> >available through it for the starter contactor. To prohibit this, I am
> >proposing to put the normally closed side of one of the poles of the
> >same switch in series with the Starter Switch circuit to the starter
> >contactor. The diode between the Main Bus and the Endurance Bus on
>Z-16
> >would no longer be necessary.
> >
> >Caveat - all items on the Main Bus will be controlled by their own
> >on/off switches for load shedding purposes.
> >
> >My question:- Is this idea sound or is there something glaringly wrong
> >with this proposition?
> >
> >Thank you in anticipation.
> >
> >Kingsley Hurst
> >Europa Builder in Oz.
>
> What items are powered from each bus?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | connecting two battery contactors |
Hi All,
I have mounted my two battery contactors one right over the other and was wondering
if I could use a bus bar to connect the output sides to each other rather
than using a very short wire no longer than the two terminals end to end. I
have a strip of copper that is .063 thick and 1/2" wide.
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Z-16 Proposed Rearrangement |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>In relation to my original message below, you asked ...... What items
>are powered from each bus?
>
>Not sure if you mean each bus as per original Z-16 or the busses I am
>proposing so will list what I am proposing.
>
>MAIN BUS - normal feed as per Z-16 plus alternate feed thru proposed
>multipole switch.
>AH - electronic
>Airmaster CS propeller
>Auto Pilot
>Engine Monitor
>Fuel pump (Facet) - backs up mech pump
>GPS
>OV disconnect relay
>Radio VHF
>Starter contactor circuit
>Strobe
>Tacho
>Transponder
>Turn co-ordinator
>
>Correction to yesterday's posting ........... All items on the main bus
>with the exception of OV disconnect relay, Starter Relay circuit and
>Tacho will be able to be switched off.
The value of the endurance bus is to minimize en route loads
until airport of destination is in sight. The list of goodies
placed on this bus is generally very small . . . there are
builders with E-bus loads of under 3 amps.
Suppose you wire per Figure Z-16 and place only the GPS, comm
radio, transponder, turn coordinator and minimal panel lighting
on the e-bus, what scenario do you envision that could cause
you to break a sweat should you find yourself sans alternator?
>BATTERY BUS
>MAC electric trim
Don't understand the value of putting trim on the battery bus.
>Cabin & Panel Flood lights
>Aux Power Outlets - for tyre pump, decanting fuel pump, airbed pump etc.
>
>Bob, this was not a consideration when I thought of the idea as I have
>only just this moment realised that as per standard Z-16, a battery
>contactor failure (rare I know) would automatically put the alternator
>off line. The switch I am proposing would allow alternator power to be
>restored for this failure mode. Not a big deal I know but can't see why
>this option would be a bad thing.
Battery contactor failure is rare. Adding complexity (back-ups to
back-ups) may increase probability of a problem. We're noodling
through a system design now where I'm ask clarification of real
value for dual position sensing potentiometers embraced as golden
by traditionalist thinkers. This is in a fail-passive system where
any fault simply results in system halt and lighting a warning
light. I've demonstrated an ability to detect any faults in a single
pot and that adding a second pot only increases probability of
a pot failure by 2x while making no difference in the outcome
of the failure since the system will simply halt in either case.
Consider how the airplane will be used and do the mental exercise
that deduces results of any/all failures. What specific failure
is being considered? How will you KNOW that the failure has
occurred. What workaround is practical to mitigate stresses
against comfortable completion of flight. Last, is the failure
pre-flight detectable . . . i.e. is it possible to take off
unaware that the failure is already in place?
You've suggested some added wires and switches to offset
contactor failure. If Figure Z-16, e-bus loads as described
above, and proposed missions for this airplane have some
failure driven tension generators, let's identify those
first. Perhaps your best solution is a manually operated
battery switch . . . simpler electrically than the classic
battery contactor and about as reliable in-flight as
wing bolts.
Many, many decisions are made to prop up concerns before
details of the concerns are fully deduced and tested for
validity. Before we throw more parts and pilot options
into the system, let's see if they REALLY help. The elegant
solution covers all concerns with a minimum of parts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: connecting two battery contactors |
>
>Hi All,
>I have mounted my two battery contactors one right over the other and was
>wondering if I could use a bus bar to connect the output sides to each
>other rather than using a very short wire no longer than the two terminals
>end to end. I have a strip of copper that is .063 thick and 1/2" wide.
That's done quite often. It will work fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
4/1/2004
Hello Electrical Gurus, First off this is no April Fool's joke. I am
requesting your help for a friend. He has a Beech Sierra with a Lycoming IO-360
engine, two magnetos, impulse coupling on the left magneto.
Recently it would not start. The (highly paid) mechanics fixed it by cleaning
off some oil from the P lead connection area on the left magneto. The
mechanics said the oil was shorting out / making connection to the P lead / shielding
and thereby preventing the magneto spark from getting to the plugs.
The engine is starting and running now, but I am having a difficult time
believing this diagnosis and cure. Does it make sense to you? Can oil become so
loaded with carbon or, heaven forbid, metal particles so that it can conduct
enough electricity to short out a P lead to the surrounding shielding or nearby
magneto frame? Oil is changed every 25 hours on this engine.
Thanks for your help.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
PS: I personally suspect some sort of intermittent malfunction in the key
type ignition switch itself.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | connecting two battery contactors |
Jim,
I did just that but I wasn't happy with how little of the 1/2" bus bar was
left on each side of the hole when I was done to I put a piece of 1/2" dia.
Copper pipe in a vise and flattened it and used that. I would think a 5/8"
or so strip of .063 copper would be better, but I couldn't find any. Soft
copper tubing might be better than the rigid copper pipe that I used.
How about it, Bob?
Terry
RV-8A
Hi All,
I have mounted my two battery contactors one right over the other and was
wondering if I could use a bus bar to connect the output sides to each other
rather than using a very short wire no longer than the two terminals end to
end. I have a strip of copper that is .063 thick and 1/2" wide.
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Durakovich <ddurakovich(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix-King Connectors |
Anyone have a name/specification/source/??? for the edge card connectors/replacement
contacts that BK uses on their various units?
Connectors as used on the KMA-24, KN-75, etc.
Any help would be appreciated.
Dave Durakovich
RV-4 in progress!
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Conducts? |
The engine is starting and running now, but I am having a difficult time
believing this diagnosis and cure. Does it make sense to you? Can oil become
so
loaded with carbon or, heaven forbid, metal particles so that it can conduct
enough electricity to short out a P lead to the surrounding shielding or
nearby
magneto frame?
'OC'
It happens a lot on automobiles with oily/greasy ignition wires, coils,
distributor caps. At night or in a darkened garage it gives a pretty good fire
works display.
Ed. Sadler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Conducts? |
>
>4/1/2004
>
>Hello Electrical Gurus, First off this is no April Fool's joke. I am
>requesting your help for a friend. He has a Beech Sierra with a Lycoming
>IO-360
>engine, two magnetos, impulse coupling on the left magneto.
>
>Recently it would not start. The (highly paid) mechanics fixed it by cleaning
>off some oil from the P lead connection area on the left magneto. The
>mechanics said the oil was shorting out / making connection to the P lead
>/ shielding
>and thereby preventing the magneto spark from getting to the plugs.
>
>The engine is starting and running now, but I am having a difficult time
>believing this diagnosis and cure. Does it make sense to you? Can oil
>become so
>loaded with carbon or, heaven forbid, metal particles so that it can conduct
>enough electricity to short out a P lead to the surrounding shielding or
>nearby
>magneto frame? Oil is changed every 25 hours on this engine.
>
>Thanks for your help.
It's not so much the oil itself but things that the oil
"glues" to the surface and moisture contained in those
contaminants. Voltage at the p-lead is several
hundred volts. Clean oil is a pretty fair insulator. Oil
and moisture soaked dirt could be the source of leakage
that can cripple a mag.
>'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
>
>PS: I personally suspect some sort of intermittent malfunction in the key
>type ignition switch itself.
Certainly possible . . .
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | connecting two battery contactors |
>
>Jim,
>
>I did just that but I wasn't happy with how little of the 1/2" bus bar was
>left on each side of the hole when I was done to I put a piece of 1/2" dia.
>Copper pipe in a vise and flattened it and used that. I would think a 5/8"
>or so strip of .063 copper would be better, but I couldn't find any. Soft
>copper tubing might be better than the rigid copper pipe that I used.
>
>How about it, Bob?
Flattening a piece of tubing is very difficult to do and
make a part you'd be proud of. Plumbing and/or roofing
contractors may have scraps of copper sheet handy. Hobby
shops stock copper sheet by K&S Engineering
http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/structural_sheet.asp
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Breaker buss - K&S |
Bob,
In the book you mention using copper or brass strips from K&S out of a hobby shop
for the buss bar for Klixon style breakers. You say to use 1/2" strips, is
that because of the holes to connect to breakers would leave too little conductor
to use 1/4" strips (which seem to fit rather nicely)?
Brett
--
Visit us at www.velocityxl.com
44VF Velocity XL/FG
I68 Cincinnati, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix-King Connectors |
Dave:
Try www.easternavionics.com
They have a listing of all the trays/connector kits for just about anything.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
panel
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Durakovich" <ddurakovich(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bendix-King Connectors
>
> Anyone have a name/specification/source/??? for the edge card
connectors/replacement contacts that BK uses on their various units?
>
> Connectors as used on the KMA-24, KN-75, etc.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Dave Durakovich
> RV-4 in progress!
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Breaker buss - K&S |
>
>Bob,
>
>In the book you mention using copper or brass strips from K&S out of a
>hobby shop for the buss bar for Klixon style breakers. You say to use
>1/2" strips, is that because of the holes to connect to breakers would
>leave too little conductor to use 1/4" strips (which seem to fit rather
>nicely)?
It's structural and electrical. You want minimum cross-section of
the bus to be equal to the current loads but more important, once
you drill a .150" hole through a .250" strip, you don't have
much material left on each side. I'd recommend 1/2" You could
put a fold in the center to form the bus against the outside
of the breaker and put the holes along one edge . . .
If it were my airplane, I wouldn't bother to build bus bars
opting instead for off-the-shelf busses in the form of
fuseblocks. Getting rid of all those threaded fasteners
in the system is a good thing to do.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix-King Connectors |
Sure do. http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Much cheaper than the "avionics shop" too.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Durakovich" <ddurakovich(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bendix-King Connectors
>
> Anyone have a name/specification/source/??? for the edge card
connectors/replacement contacts that BK uses on their various units?
>
> Connectors as used on the KMA-24, KN-75, etc.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Dave Durakovich
> RV-4 in progress!
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Questions for Bob Nuckels |
Dear Bob,
1) If Captain Piccard could shoot those Borgs with a Tommy gun, why weren't
spears, arrows, or bullets the preferred weapons against the Borg's force
fields?
2) Is the oatmeal box really necessary in the crystal set radio? What if
they don't make the oatmeal anymore? Then what?
3) If AC electricity is stuff the power company keeps giving you a little
and then taking back a little; why should we pay for it? We never get to
keep any of it.
4) Since the speed of light is finite, why can't we see the light come on
when we open the refrigerator door?
5) They say--"When one finds an elevated or deficient meridian on Ryoraku,
the correct treatment approach is one of tonification or sedation, to
specific acupuncture points known to replenish or deplete electronic
bio-magnetic energy so as to create balance in the meridians. Precise
electronic measurements are ascertained by examining the twenty-four
specific Yuan points of the wrist and ankles for only three seconds per
point." Bob, should I worry about this?
6) My friend John used to make lasers for destroying tanks, but now he
designs medical instruments. He asked me where he buy a switch that turns
the laser beam from "Tanks" to "Tumors"?
7) I've read all of IEC 60950, EN 60987, UL 19507/CSA C28.2 95650, IEEE456,
AS/NZS 3260 and I still don't hardly understand none of it. Can you explain?
8) I just thought of something whilst cleaning my room. I wonder if you
could power an arc welder backwards with high voltage? You could adjust it
using the crank at the top to get the best spark. Would this work? What kind
of power supply would you need? Someone please tell me if this is a good
idea or if there is some obvious flaw here.
9) If you put a 9-volt battery and some pennies in your pocket. The pennies
will wind up in your shoe and THEY WILL BE RED HOT. Can we make money with
this?
10) If someone holds his finger out and says, "Smell this!", should you?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Things possess an infinite quality when moving in a circle that they lack
when moving in a straight line."--Galiani
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: connecting two battery contactors |
Try this for the 1/2" copper bus bar.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1080858073-312-687&browse=electrical&product=buss-bar
$2.87 plus $4 handling plus UPS shipping.
Larry in Indiana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: connecting two battery contactors
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >I did just that but I wasn't happy with how little of the 1/2" bus bar
was
> >left on each side of the hole when I was done to I put a piece of 1/2"
dia.
> >Copper pipe in a vise and flattened it and used that. I would think a
5/8"
> >or so strip of .063 copper would be better, but I couldn't find any. Soft
> >copper tubing might be better than the rigid copper pipe that I used.
> >
> >How about it, Bob?
>
> Flattening a piece of tubing is very difficult to do and
> make a part you'd be proud of. Plumbing and/or roofing
> contractors may have scraps of copper sheet handy. Hobby
> shops stock copper sheet by K&S Engineering
>
> http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/structural_sheet.asp
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | connecting two battery contactors |
That's what I used. By the time you drill a hole big enough to put the stud
on the contactor through, you have very little edge distance left. I would
much rather have a part that didn't look so professional but was going to do
the job than one that looked great but was going to cause me to worry about
it breaking off, but that's apparently what Van's has in the RV-7 drawings.
Here's a link to Dan Checkoway's excellent web site showing the drawings and
the drilled bar.
http://www.rvproject.com/20030518.html.
Terry
Try this for the 1/2" copper bus bar.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1080858073-312-687&bro
wse=electrical&product=buss-bar
$2.87 plus $4 handling plus UPS shipping.
Larry in Indiana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: connecting two battery contactors
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >I did just that but I wasn't happy with how little of the 1/2" bus bar
was
> >left on each side of the hole when I was done to I put a piece of 1/2"
dia.
> >Copper pipe in a vise and flattened it and used that. I would think a
5/8"
> >or so strip of .063 copper would be better, but I couldn't find any. Soft
> >copper tubing might be better than the rigid copper pipe that I used.
> >
> >How about it, Bob?
>
> Flattening a piece of tubing is very difficult to do and
> make a part you'd be proud of. Plumbing and/or roofing
> contractors may have scraps of copper sheet handy. Hobby
> shops stock copper sheet by K&S Engineering
>
> http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/structural_sheet.asp
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Pflanzer" <f1rocket(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions for Bob Nuckels |
Uh....I think Eric has been smelling too much smoke from his soldering iron
again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Questions for Bob Nuckels
>
> Dear Bob,
>
> 1) If Captain Piccard could shoot those Borgs with a Tommy gun, why
weren't
> spears, arrows, or bullets the preferred weapons against the Borg's force
> fields?
> 2) Is the oatmeal box really necessary in the crystal set radio? What if
> they don't make the oatmeal anymore? Then what?
> 3) If AC electricity is stuff the power company keeps giving you a little
> and then taking back a little; why should we pay for it? We never get to
> keep any of it.
> 4) Since the speed of light is finite, why can't we see the light come on
> when we open the refrigerator door?
> 5) They say--"When one finds an elevated or deficient meridian on Ryoraku,
> the correct treatment approach is one of tonification or sedation, to
> specific acupuncture points known to replenish or deplete electronic
> bio-magnetic energy so as to create balance in the meridians. Precise
> electronic measurements are ascertained by examining the twenty-four
> specific Yuan points of the wrist and ankles for only three seconds per
> point." Bob, should I worry about this?
> 6) My friend John used to make lasers for destroying tanks, but now he
> designs medical instruments. He asked me where he buy a switch that turns
> the laser beam from "Tanks" to "Tumors"?
> 7) I've read all of IEC 60950, EN 60987, UL 19507/CSA C28.2 95650,
IEEE456,
> AS/NZS 3260 and I still don't hardly understand none of it. Can you
explain?
> 8) I just thought of something whilst cleaning my room. I wonder if you
> could power an arc welder backwards with high voltage? You could adjust it
> using the crank at the top to get the best spark. Would this work? What
kind
> of power supply would you need? Someone please tell me if this is a good
> idea or if there is some obvious flaw here.
> 9) If you put a 9-volt battery and some pennies in your pocket. The
pennies
> will wind up in your shoe and THEY WILL BE RED HOT. Can we make money with
> this?
> 10) If someone holds his finger out and says, "Smell this!", should you?
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
> "Things possess an infinite quality when moving in a circle that they lack
> when moving in a straight line."--Galiani
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions for Bob Nuckels |
>
>
>Uh....I think Eric has been smelling too much smoke from his soldering iron
>again.
Yeah, it may be that new "lead free" stuff ;-)
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | connecting two battery contactors |
>
>That's what I used. By the time you drill a hole big enough to put the stud
>on the contactor through, you have very little edge distance left. I would
>much rather have a part that didn't look so professional but was going to do
>the job than one that looked great but was going to cause me to worry about
>it breaking off, but that's apparently what Van's has in the RV-7 drawings.
>Here's a link to Dan Checkoway's excellent web site showing the drawings and
>the drilled bar.
>http://www.rvproject.com/20030518.html.
The 1/2" stuff is fine for breaker panels (not "switches" as
described in Van's website). Contactors have 5/16" studs and
I'd try to have at least 1/8" edge margin so the "bar" should
be at least 9/16" wide. This is why cutting your own out of
sheet stock is preferred.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
I have a FLITECOM 403mc Intercom that specifies a 4 Ohm speaker for the Cabin Speaker
Function. All the 4 Ohm speakers I have found are large and HEAVY!
I have an 8 Ohm computer speaker that is both small and light-weight, works, and
sounds great. I connected it to the -403mc external speaker connector and it
seems to work fine.
Can I use this 8 Ohm speaker without damaging the intercom?
Also, before anyone mentions that I won't be able to hear the speaker when the
engine is running and/or in flight.... my purpose for the speaker is to monitor/get
the ATIS prior to engine start.
Thanks,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N174JL reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
>
>
> > 13.5 volts is a tad low. What kind of voltage regulator are you
> > using?
>
>In retrospect, actual voltage is about 3.8 with the internal regulator.
I presume you mean 13.8 . . .
>Were you switching any other accessory(ies) when the trip
> > occurred?
>
>Nope.
>
> > What has your voltage been running in recent flights before the
> > trip?
>
>Voltage has not been a problem. The connection to the alternator was
>loose, so I was losing voltage. Tightened the v-belt and the cable and
>voltage has been about 3.8 to 4.0.
I'll assume 13.8 to 14.0 . . . that's a useful operating range.
Have you had any nuisance trips of the ov protection system in the past?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LOAD DUMP--- Protection design test |
status
>
>This is just a update of progress so far in defining the characteristics of
>the Alternator Load Dump and how to clamp it to prevent other system damage
>from overvoltage during an Load Dump event (hopefully you will never have
>one :-) ).
>The test equipment is Calibrated Tektronics and results will include voltage
>and current waveforms as well as other parameters and the specific test
>setups.
>
>Paul
Pleased your making progress. It's high on the list of things
to do here also . . . but things keep getting shoved in above it!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Speaker |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Your 8ohm speaker will work fine for your application. A 4ohm
speaker would be a little louder. Its almost always safe to substitute
a higher impedance load in place of a lower impedance one. If
you decide you want a 4ohm speaker at some point, try looking
at some of the cheap automotive stereo speakers. Most are 4ohm,
and the cheap ones are light weight.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> I have a FLITECOM 403mc Intercom that specifies a 4 Ohm speaker for the
> Cabin Speaker Function. All the 4 Ohm speakers I have found are large
> and HEAVY!
>
> I have an 8 Ohm computer speaker that is both small and light-weight,
> works, and sounds great. I connected it to the -403mc external speaker
> connector and it seems to work fine.
>
> Can I use this 8 Ohm speaker without damaging the intercom?
>
> Also, before anyone mentions that I won't be able to hear the speaker
> when the engine is running and/or in flight.... my purpose for the
> speaker is to monitor/get the ATIS prior to engine start.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> RV-7A N174JL reserved
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
Thanks to all. Found what I needed locally in an AMP circular flanged
connector. Now I am wishing I used these for all of my connectors rather than the
usual D-subs since they are bayonet locking rather than using the little metal
screws to hold them together.
Regards,
Doug
In a message dated 3/30/2004 7:53:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
> >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> >
> >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
> >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
>
> See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: connecting two battery contactors |
I guess it could be made of brass or copper. And you are right about the
1/2 inch width not leaving much meat on either side of the bolt.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: connecting two battery contactors
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >I did just that but I wasn't happy with how little of the 1/2" bus bar
was
> >left on each side of the hole when I was done to I put a piece of 1/2"
dia.
> >Copper pipe in a vise and flattened it and used that. I would think a
5/8"
> >or so strip of .063 copper would be better, but I couldn't find any. Soft
> >copper tubing might be better than the rigid copper pipe that I used.
> >
> >How about it, Bob?
>
> Flattening a piece of tubing is very difficult to do and
> make a part you'd be proud of. Plumbing and/or roofing
> contractors may have scraps of copper sheet handy. Hobby
> shops stock copper sheet by K&S Engineering
>
> http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/structural_sheet.asp
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan - ZK-VII" <zk-vii(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | FADEC w/ Dual battery |
Hi,
We are starting down the path of electrical design for a 7A. The basis is
likely to be the Z-14, dual battery, dual Alternator design. We are also
considering the FADEC option, this needs power to provide a spark (ie. it
has no mechanical source for the spark).
A couple of questions:
a) Has this (FADEC configuration) already been done / peer reviewed?
b) AeroSance recommend a dedicated battery directly connected to the
ignition system, what are the general thoughts on this vs sharing a second
battery with other critical items ie. EBUS / radio and AI.
Thanks,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB
Cromwell, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FADEC w/ Dual battery |
I have said configuration on my 6A including FADEC. Email me directly and
I'll direct you to some pictures etc.
David
RV6-A IOF-360
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Morgan - ZK-VII
Subject: AeroElectric-List: FADEC w/ Dual battery
Hi,
We are starting down the path of electrical design for a 7A. The basis is
likely to be the Z-14, dual battery, dual Alternator design. We are also
considering the FADEC option, this needs power to provide a spark (ie. it
has no mechanical source for the spark).
A couple of questions:
a) Has this (FADEC configuration) already been done / peer reviewed?
b) AeroSance recommend a dedicated battery directly connected to the
ignition system, what are the general thoughts on this vs sharing a second
battery with other critical items ie. EBUS / radio and AI.
Thanks,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB
Cromwell, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dukes boost pump question |
| From: | "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott(at)commander.com> |
HI Greg,
from you email am I to infer that you are putting your boost pump switch on the
control stick? Why?
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg
Campbell
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dukes boost pump question
A simple solution using two commonly available switches is:
First Switch: SPDT for "Boost Select" (Low / High):
Center or Common terminal of switch goes to the fuse for the pump.
The "Low" and "High" wires from the Dukes pump go to opposite poles on the
switch.
Second Switch: SPST switch for "Fuel Boost " (On / Off):
One terminal goes to the "common" wire from the Dukes,
the other terminal goes to ground.
Put the two switches next to each other - so you select: Low/High, Off/On.
The nice part is you can follow the convention of: Down is OFF.
A less conventional solution would be a 3 position ON-OFF-ON switch
with down being LOW, center OFF, and up being HIGH.
Wire this into the Low & High wires - same as above.
Then take the "Common" wire from the pump and ground it.
There is probably some way to wire up an S700-2-10 switch to do an: OFF-LOW-HIGH
function.
Any of these will effectively insure you don't apply power to both the Low & High
wires
at the same time. I too was curious about what would happen should this occur.
But given the cost of a Dukes fuel pump, I wasn't inclined to experiment.
It gets more complicated if you try to incorporate pair of joysticks,
combined with a "stick disable", manual override, panel mount switch, etc..
I think I would like to try a latching relay so I could "pulse" the relay
and toggle the state of the pump (ON/OFF) from any of three inputs.
Any suggestions from the list on a latching relay would be appreciated.
(The pump in question draws about 9 Amps on High.)
Greg
88% Lancair ES
San Francisco CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Morris <dave(at)davemorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
There's always the low-tech method using a VW Beetle thermostat bellows to
open a cowl flap when the temp reaches a certain level. I just bought 2 of
the new-fangled versions of them and used a heat gun to see how it
works. When it heats up, a little rod pushes out about an inch, which can
be used (via a lever) to open a cowl flap.
Not my usual microprocessor-controlled GPS-based high-tech, but cheap and
effective.
Dave Morris
At 10:46 PM 3/31/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>Since I posted the original message, I found these Cantherm Encapsulated
>Thermostats for Electronics, (F11-E06). One example is Digikey part #
>317-1023-ND. It closes at 90 degrees Celsius. Other part numbers represent
>similar devices with different temperature ranges. This device looks to me
>like it would operate my LED annunciator directly and survive life under the
>cowling. Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
>cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
>Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
>
>Regards,
>Troy Scott
>tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 Booster |
Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster would
give me a better answer but no such luck.
I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king AK-550-12
14volt to 28 volt booster.
Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and drawing
5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
The manual states the following
INPUT
Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
Current:
@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for AK-550-12)
@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-12)
.11a typ. @ no load for -6
322a typ. @ no load for -12
Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each amp
pulled from the booster???
Aka
Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at 28vdc
and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
It's late maybe I need sleep
Thanks
Jeff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
Therefore, for a 5A output @ 28V (140W) you would need to supply 12.5A @
14V (175W) or 14A @ 12.5V. Or to answer your question of how many amps
in per amp out, 2.5A @14V input or 2.8A @12.5V for each amp out @28V.
Of course, the efficiency of the supply probably varies with the actual
load, but since there is only one valid output current data point we
cannot estimate that. However, this should be close enough to start.
Dick Tasker
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>
>Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster would
>give me a better answer but no such luck.
>
>I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king AK-550-12
>14volt to 28 volt booster.
>
>Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and drawing
>5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
>
>The manual states the following
>
>INPUT
>
>Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
>
>
>Current:
>@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
>
>@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
>
>@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for AK-550-12)
>
>@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-12)
>
>
>.11a typ. @ no load for -6
>
>322a typ. @ no load for -12
>
>
>Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each amp
>pulled from the booster???
>
>Aka
>
>Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at 28vdc
>and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
>
>I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
>
>It's late maybe I need sleep
>Thanks
>Jeff.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> (by way of Matt Dralle |
)
| Subject: | Bussmann fuseblock survey question |
(by way of Matt Dralle )
I tried sending out this survey question last night, but it doesn't seem
to have come through so I'll try it again. As John mentions below in
his message, he would like to use the new 15710 series fuseblock. The
size he is interested in is a 24 position dual bus split 20/4. However,
I have to order a minimum of 24 pieces to get this new size that I don't
currently stock. John says he could also use a 28 position split 20/8
if that size would be useful to more people and increase my chances of
selling all 24 pieces.
So here's the survey question. Would you be more likely to use a 24
position dual bus fuseblock split 20/4 or a 28 position split 20/8?
Your answer is not a commitment to buy anything. If you want your
answer to count, please reply prompty as John needs me to get these on
order without much delay. Thanks for your help.
Dave Swartzendruber
P.S. see www.mihdirect.biz for more info on the 15710 series fuseblock.
>
>
> Gary -
>
> We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
> from various lists:
>
>
> We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that
Dave
> Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
> spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
>
> We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel.
I
> have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so
they
> will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not
sure
> about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk
screws
> per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
> connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's
or
> 20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one
could
> use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they
need
> one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
> control.
>
> If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
> Swartzendruber" )know because he has to
> order 24 of the blocks to get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
> but there is room for the 20/8's.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> John Schroeder
> Lancair ES
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> I'll assume 13.8 to 14.0 . . . that's a useful operating range.
> Have you had any nuisance trips of the ov protection system in the
past?
>
> Bob . . .
Yes, but not since I changed to the newer OV module and replaced my
alternator. I think I have a bare wire somewhere that is grounded out. In
finding this culprit, may I assume:
1) that the wire is "downstream" past a fuse greater than 5A?
or
2) that the wire is providing power on a circuit without a fuse? (I have
to figure out what that might be)
If there is indeed a grounded wire, do you recommend a particular "search
and destroy" tactic to find the culprit in the least amount of time?
Thanks, Bob
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
"RV List"
| Subject: | Annunciator Light Bulb |
Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really small light
bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only showed one
hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of em!!!
Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4
>of em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
The "CM" part of the number is Chicago Minature's prefix for
an industry standard #388 lamp. If we're talking about the same
lamp, you'll find it illustrated in Figure 11 of
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=962.pdf
This catalog page also says the 388 is a 28v lamp. Are
you sure that you're not looking for a #386 which is
the grooved base rather than flanged (makes it useful
in front-remove-replace fixtures) and also 14v rated.
This would be figure 12 on the same catalog page.
These would also cost you $9.00 . . . for a box
of 10 lamps.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
>
>
> > I'll assume 13.8 to 14.0 . . . that's a useful operating range.
> > Have you had any nuisance trips of the ov protection system in the
>past?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Yes, but not since I changed to the newer OV module and replaced my
>alternator. I think I have a bare wire somewhere that is grounded out. In
>finding this culprit, may I assume:
>1) that the wire is "downstream" past a fuse greater than 5A?
Not sure where this came from . . . if the alternator field
breaker is popping, then any intermittent fault that triggers
this event would be in the alternator field circuit downstream
of THE tripping breaker. This probably isn't some nefarious gremlin
doing it's dirty work in some unrelated portion of the ship's
systems.
When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
send it back and/or replace it?
>or
>
>2) that the wire is providing power on a circuit without a fuse? (I have
>to figure out what that might be)
>
>If there is indeed a grounded wire, do you recommend a particular "search
>and destroy" tactic to find the culprit in the least amount of time?
No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
exactly what it's designed to do.
What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Jack -
Which annunciator panel buttons are you using? We are looking at some
solutions. One is a light from GC Waldom that has a small bulb in it
(.08 amps). They sell for about $6 per assembly/light from a distributor.
It might be cheaper to change to another assembly. Check:
http://www.gcwaldom.com/catalog.html
Click on Panel Lamps/..., then click down a few pages to get to the
rectangular panel snap in lamps (38-1022-12 is the red one).
Hope this helps,
John
> Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
> small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 Booster |
First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
??
THANKS in advance
Jeff.
-->
Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
Therefore, for a 5A output @ 28V (140W) you would need to supply 12.5A @
14V (175W) or 14A @ 12.5V. Or to answer your question of how many amps
in per amp out, 2.5A @14V input or 2.8A @12.5V for each amp out @28V.
Of course, the efficiency of the supply probably varies with the actual
load, but since there is only one valid output current data point we
cannot estimate that. However, this should be close enough to start.
Dick Tasker
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>-->
>
>Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster
>would give me a better answer but no such luck.
>
>I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king
>AK-550-12 14volt to 28 volt booster.
>
>Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and
>drawing 5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
>
>The manual states the following
>
>INPUT
>
>Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
>
>
>Current:
>@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
>
>@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
>
>@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for
>AK-550-12)
>
>@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for
>AK-550-12)
>
>
>.11a typ. @ no load for -6
>
>322a typ. @ no load for -12
>
>
>Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each
>amp pulled from the booster???
>
>Aka
>
>Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at
>28vdc and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
>
>I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
>
>It's late maybe I need sleep
>Thanks
>Jeff.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
fuse block survey question
Dave,
I've been puzzling over Eric Jones' existential crisis questions all day! :-)
I recently mounted my fuse blocks. I'm sure someone will soon ask you how to use
these blocks when you need to surface mount them. I made 4 2" long, pillar
type spacers out of Bakelite for one of my fuse blocks. This allows enough room
behind it for the wire loom to exit nicely. See attached photos. This is mounted
on the rear side of my forward baggage compartment bulkhead (F-866A) I'm
using #8 flat head screws which enter from the rear (aka back) of the fuse block.
The pillars have been countersunk to nest into the dimples in the F-866A.
Charlie Kuss
(by way of Matt Dralle )
>
> I tried sending out this survey question last night, but it doesn't seem
> to have come through so I'll try it again. As John mentions below in
> his message, he would like to use the new 15710 series fuseblock. The
> size he is interested in is a 24 position dual bus split 20/4. However,
> I have to order a minimum of 24 pieces to get this new size that I don't
> currently stock. John says he could also use a 28 position split 20/8
> if that size would be useful to more people and increase my chances of
> selling all 24 pieces.
>
> So here's the survey question. Would you be more likely to use a 24
> position dual bus fuseblock split 20/4 or a 28 position split 20/8?
> Your answer is not a commitment to buy anything. If you want your
> answer to count, please reply prompty as John needs me to get these on
> order without much delay. Thanks for your help.
>
> Dave Swartzendruber
> P.S. see www.mihdirect.biz for more info on the 15710 series fuseblock.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Gary -
> >
> > We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
> > from various lists:
> >
> >
> > We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that
>Dave
> > Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
> > spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
> >
> > We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel.
>I
> > have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so
>they
> > will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not
>sure
> > about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk
>screws
> > per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
> > connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's
>or
> > 20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one
>could
> > use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they
>need
> > one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
> > control.
> >
> > If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
> > Swartzendruber" )know because he has to
> > order 24 of the blocks to get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
> > but there is room for the 20/8's.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > John Schroeder
> > Lancair ES
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>
> First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
> myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
> http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
> I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
> less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
>
> Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
> ??
>
> THANKS in advance
> Jeff.
>
> -->
>
> Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
> output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
> We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
> current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
> get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
> power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
Am I missing something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: use block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: |
Bussmann fuse block survey question
Listers,
My apologies. The post below was meant to be sent to Dave off list. My bad! :-(
do not archieve
Charlie Kuss
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:51:58 -0500
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: Bussmann
> fuse block survey question
>Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Dave,
> I've been puzzling over Eric Jones' existential crisis questions all day! :-)
>I recently mounted my fuse blocks. I'm sure someone will soon ask you how to use
these blocks when you need to surface mount them. I made 4 2" long, pillar
type spacers out of Bakelite for one of my fuse blocks. This allows enough room
behind it for the wire loom to exit nicely. See attached photos. This is mounted
on the rear side of my forward baggage compartment bulkhead (F-866A) I'm
using #8 flat head screws which enter from the rear (aka back) of the fuse block.
The pillars have been countersunk to nest into the dimples in the F-866A.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
(by way of Matt Dralle )
>>
>> I tried sending out this survey question last night, but it doesn't seem
>> to have come through so I'll try it again. As John mentions below in
>> his message, he would like to use the new 15710 series fuseblock. The
>> size he is interested in is a 24 position dual bus split 20/4. However,
>> I have to order a minimum of 24 pieces to get this new size that I don't
>> currently stock. John says he could also use a 28 position split 20/8
>> if that size would be useful to more people and increase my chances of
>> selling all 24 pieces.
>>
>> So here's the survey question. Would you be more likely to use a 24
>> position dual bus fuseblock split 20/4 or a 28 position split 20/8?
>> Your answer is not a commitment to buy anything. If you want your
>> answer to count, please reply prompty as John needs me to get these on
>> order without much delay. Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Dave Swartzendruber
>> P.S. see www.mihdirect.biz for more info on the 15710 series fuseblock.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Gary -
>> >
>> > We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
>> > from various lists:
>> >
>> >
>> > We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that
>>Dave
>> > Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
>> > spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
>> >
>> > We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel.
>>I
>> > have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so
>>they
>> > will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not
>>sure
>> > about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk
>>screws
>> > per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
>> > connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's
>>or
>> > 20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one
>>could
>> > use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they
>>need
>> > one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
>> > control.
>> >
>> > If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
>> > Swartzendruber" )know because he has to
>> > order 24 of the blocks to get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
>> > but there is room for the 20/8's.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps
>> >
>> > John Schroeder
>> > Lancair ES
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
> replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
> for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
> send it back and/or replace it?
During a "catastrophic" overheating of my engine two summers ago, the
breaker tripped. I sent the OV module back to you for updating because of
some nuisance trips with the older version. Never got it back. Ordered a
replacement from B & C with the newer components.
> No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
> it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
> ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
> then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
The tripping event occurs seconds after starting the engine. Push the
breaker in and the voltmeter shows about 14 volts and the breaker trips
again...
>
> This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
> system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
> Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
> would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
> operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
> action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
> a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
> kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
> plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
> of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
> exactly what it's designed to do.
>
> What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
The voltage regulator is internal with the Beck-Arnley rebuilt alternator.
The alternator is for an '88 Justy. It has a Mitsubishi symbol on it. I
took it to the auto parts place and had it checked out. Checked out fine...
Thanks, Bob
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's response. |
>>>Does anyone know what happens when both wires
>>>(high and low boost) are hot?
>>I too was curious about what would happen should this
>>occur.
>The motor runs in the fast mode.
Spoke with a Dukes tech about having both wires hot at once. He said they hadn't
tested the unit that way and so he recommended against it. He said he thought
the unit would run in the fast mode but that it would draw more current than
it's designed to draw (...something about two separate motors). It would get
hotter than designed as well.
I have no way of evaluating this, but I'm back to wanting to wire it so that only
one switch can be hot. Bob, if, hypothetically, you were constrained to use
two switches, how would you wire it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
>
>
> > When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
> > replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
> > for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
> > send it back and/or replace it?
>
>During a "catastrophic" overheating of my engine two summers ago, the
>breaker tripped. I sent the OV module back to you for updating because of
>some nuisance trips with the older version. Never got it back. Ordered a
>replacement from B & C with the newer components.
>
> > No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
> > it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
> > ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
> > then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
>
>The tripping event occurs seconds after starting the engine. Push the
>breaker in and the voltmeter shows about 14 volts and the breaker trips
>again...
> >
> > This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
> > system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
> > Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
> > would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
> > operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
> > action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
> > a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
> > kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
> > plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
> > of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
> > exactly what it's designed to do.
> >
> > What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
>
>The voltage regulator is internal with the Beck-Arnley rebuilt alternator.
>The alternator is for an '88 Justy. It has a Mitsubishi symbol on it. I
>took it to the auto parts place and had it checked out. Checked out fine...
Okay, it's almost a sure bet that unhooking the ov module will
stop the tripping but it's worth a confirmation.
The next question to scope out is what's agitating the
ov module? I presume the system ran well on the new module
until recently . . . have you made any changes to the system . . .
installed any new equipment?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's |
response.
>
> >>>Does anyone know what happens when both wires
> >>>(high and low boost) are hot?
>
> >>I too was curious about what would happen should this
> >>occur.
>
> >The motor runs in the fast mode.
>
>Spoke with a Dukes tech about having both wires hot at once. He said they
>hadn't tested the unit that way and so he recommended against it. He said
>he thought the unit would run in the fast mode but that it would draw more
>current than it's designed to draw (...something about two separate
>motors). It would get hotter than designed as well.
>
>I have no way of evaluating this, but I'm back to wanting to wire it so
>that only one switch can be hot. Bob, if, hypothetically, you were
>constrained to use two switches, how would you wire it?
Wire with single pole, double throw switches. Wire the high speed
through the OFF position of the low speed switch. That way, you can't
get high speed operation until the low speed switch is OFF thus
preventing the dual-power feed situation we've hypothesized.
I believe the pump is a series-wound motor with extra field
windings for slow speed operation. Connection both speed control
wires together simply shorts out the low speed field wires and
forces the motor into the high speed mode. It doesn't surprise
me but it is disappointing that the Dukes guy doesn't understand
his product any better than that. It's still more disappointing
to find this a common condition throughout general aviation.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What happened to Gretz Aero ? |
Hi Bob and all,
Some time ago, after asking on the 'List I found a nice little black round
GPS antenna on Gretz Aero's website.
Warren Gretz kindly answered my questions, and I was just about to place an
order.
But to my surprise it appears they don't carry GPS antennas any longer, and
I got no reply to my e-mail.
Anyone know what's going on ?
Thanks,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
Sorry to disagree, but you did type the numbers in the wrong places -
must have been the late hour!
If you look again at the data sheet you will see that the specs for the
6A units are:
6A out for 15A @ 14V in
6A out for 23.3A @ 9V in
And the 12A units:
12A out for 30A @ 14V in
12A out for 46.6A @ 9V in
However, these data are for two different supplies. Nonetheless, the
original calculations are correct for the 12A supply and if you do the
same calculations for the 6A supply, the efficiency also calculates to
80% efficiency, so the original comments are still valid.
If you need 5A continuous, I might go with the 12A version (depending on
cost). If your typical requirement is lower and only 5A on transmit,
then I would go for the 6A supply (since it will probably be cheaper and
certainly has enough capacity for your application).
Dick Tasker
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
>myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
>http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
> I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
>less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
>
>Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
>??
>
>THANKS in advance
>Jeff.
>
>-->
>
>Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
>output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
>We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
>current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
>get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
>power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
>
>Therefore, for a 5A output @ 28V (140W) you would need to supply 12.5A @
>14V (175W) or 14A @ 12.5V. Or to answer your question of how many amps
>in per amp out, 2.5A @14V input or 2.8A @12.5V for each amp out @28V.
>
>Of course, the efficiency of the supply probably varies with the actual
>load, but since there is only one valid output current data point we
>cannot estimate that. However, this should be close enough to start.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>
>
>
>>-->
>>
>>Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster
>>would give me a better answer but no such luck.
>>
>>I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king
>>AK-550-12 14volt to 28 volt booster.
>>
>>Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and
>>drawing 5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
>>
>>The manual states the following
>>
>>INPUT
>>
>>Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
>>
>>
>>Current:
>>@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
>>
>>@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
>>
>>@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for
>>AK-550-12)
>>
>>@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for
>>AK-550-12)
>>
>>
>>.11a typ. @ no load for -6
>>
>>322a typ. @ no load for -12
>>
>>
>>Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each
>>amp pulled from the booster???
>>
>>Aka
>>
>>Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at
>>28vdc and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
>>
>>I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
>>
>>It's late maybe I need sleep
>>Thanks
>>Jeff.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
>I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
>I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
>impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
>the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
>
>Am I missing something?
>
>
Yes, you are. We are talking about a regulated power supply here. The supply
will draw whatever current it needs from the source voltage to supply whatever
current is being drawn from the output (until it is overloaded).
I am not sure how to better explain it in layman's terms (I am an electrical engineer,
sorry :-) ) but I will give it a try.
The internal circuitry of the power supply serves to convert input power to output power. The original data were typed wrong (see the data sheet for the correct values http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf ). based on this data, the conversion efficiency is 80% - for 10 watts of output you must put 12.5 watts in (2.5 watts ends up as heat and 10 watts goes to the output). The power supply (within its design constraints) doesn't care how it gets its input power - it can take anything from 9V to 16V. When it takes 12.5 watts of input to make 10W of output it can take 9V @ 1.4A or 13V @ .96A or 16V @ .78A (or anything in between these numbers). Of course, this is somewhat oversimplified since a power supply's efficiency will vary somewhat depending on the input voltage and output load.
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
Try here:
http://www.chml.com/
There search engine does not show it but I would call them any way, it
might be superceded.
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of
>em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
Found it here:
http://www.chml.com/assets/databookpdf/2-48.pdf
Really need to call them
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of
>em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse block |
survey question
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Charley -
YOur pictures of the 15710 buss blocks were not attached to the email.
Could you send them directly to me attached to an email?
jschroeder(at)perigee.net Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
Richard Tasker wrote:
>
>
>>I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
>>I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
>>impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
>>the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
>>
>>Am I missing something?
>>
>>
>
> Yes, you are. We are talking about a regulated power supply here. The supply
will draw whatever current it needs from the source voltage to supply whatever
current is being drawn from the output (until it is overloaded).
Ah! Sorry, the PDF link didn't work for me and I didn't realize this thing was
a power supply. I thought it was an actual device of some sort.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse |
block survey question
John,
The list server strips out all attachments. This is because of problems with virus'
in the past. I'll send you a copy this evening when I get home. I don't
have those photos on my shop computer.
Charlie
>
> From: John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
> Date: 2004/04/02 Fri PM 01:28:51 EST
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse
block survey question
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
>
>Bob,
>
>Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
>D-sub connector? If so, source?
>
>Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
>Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>TIA for a great service provided.
You're welcome!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Don Ward ,
aeroelectric list ,
Rotary motors in aircraft ,
"Anderson, Ed" ,
"avionics-list(at)matronics.com" ,
"Berry, Imogene " ,
"bourgeois, Gene (home)" ,
"Boyd, Bill " , "Buchanan, Sam " ,
"Burris, Curt" ,
"Callahan, Michael D. " ,
"Calvert, Jerry " ,
"Canizaro, Paul " ,
"Carter, Tommy Sue Paxton"
| Subject: | Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! |
Greetings Fellow Aviators,
The Lower Slobovia Outernational Garden Club would like to extend to You
and Yours a cordial invitation to our next effort to cultivate more
frequent pilotage, higher flour bombing accuracy, and an increased
consumption of non plant food matter.
We will be serving lunch to you on Saturday, June 5, 2004.
I'll make available sheet metal tools & aluminum for anyone wanting
their 1st exposure to metal work. For those interested in alternative
engines, I'll try ot hav a Mazda rotary opened up for inspection.
Formation flight teams are invited to attend & demonstrate their skills.
(Mike Stewart, are you listening?) Plaques will be awarde for flour
bombing, longest distance flown, & other categories & as determined by
our totally biased judges.
Anyone wishing to arrive on Friday and/or stay until Sunday is welcome
to do so. Just throw a bedrool in your plane/car & we will find yo a
place to sleep that's out of the heat. There are lots of spare bedrooms,
hangar apartments, floor space, etc. available with the sponsoring
families. We will do continental breakfast stuff in the morning & poll
the participants for evening meal decisions. Some of our pilots actually
consider themselves multitalented & encourage you to bring your musical
instrument of choice for some homegrown music in the evening.
Now for the details:
Disclaimer: Slobovia is a private airport. Pilots operate at their own risk.
You can get complete info about our airport at airnav.com
http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71
FAA Identifier: MS71
Lat/Long: 32-29-42.508N / 090-17-34.325W
32-29.70847N / 090-17.57208W
32.4951411 / -90.2928681
(estimated)
Elevation: 250 ft. / 76 m (estimated)
Variation: 03E (1985)
From city: 1 mile N of POCAHONTAS, MS (10 miles N of Jackson MS)
Airport Operations
Airport use: Private use. Permission required prior to landing
Activation date: 11/1988
Sectional chart: MEMPHIS
<http://www.airnav.com/ad/click/taHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdnNob3.uY29tL3NlY3Rpb25hbGNoYXJ0cy5odG1sP3Jl+LZj05MyBhdnNob3..>
Control tower: no
ARTCC: MEMPHIS CENTER
FSS: GREENWOOD FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF]
Attendance: UNATNDD
Wind indicator: yes
Segmented circle: no
Lights: RDO REQ
Beacon: unknown
Airport Communications
UNICOM: 122.75
WX ASOS at HKS (10 nm S): 120.625 (601-354-4037)
WX ASOS at JAN (16 nm SE): PHONE 601-932-2822
Nearby radio navigation aids
VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var
JAN
<http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/navaid-info?id=JAN&type=VORTAC&name=JACKSON>r258/6.4
JACKSON VORTAC
112.60
05E
Runway Information
Runway 15/33
Dimensions: 3540 x 80 ft. / 1079 x 24 m
Surface: turf
RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33
Traffic pattern: left
left
Obstructions: 70 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway
none
If you need driving directions or more info, feel free to email me at
cengland(at)netdoor.com
or call at 601-879-9596.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Bob wrote:
You've got a 40-hour fly-off to do. Suggest you investigate these
values and then enlighten us.
Bob . . .
Yes, but....., I think that many times the fly-off period is when major
problems, if any, rear their scary heads. I don't want to wait until after
I need a fire detector to install one. Fortunately a few guys have made
suggestions regarding maximum acceptable cowling exit air temperatures,
ranging from 51degreesC to 86degreesC. I think I'll start out with a 95C
encapsulated thermostat. If I get nuisance trips during the fly-off
period, I'll increase the temperature range. Now for an important question:
Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
"open" a sensor wire......
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Annunciator Light Bulb |
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
small light
>bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only showed one
>hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of em!!!
The economics of small bulbs dictates the $9 price. You can bet that most
filament instrument lamps are being sold from existing stocks and when they
are gone...you'll say, "Back in ought-four I could have bought them for just
nine bucks a pop!"
Ledtronics and many others sell LED retrofits. This would be my serious
consideration.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
- James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
- Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
Thanks for the info Bob...
It's pretty strange. I have 6 annunciator bulbs in 3 annunciators.... 4 of them
are CM388s and 2-CM386s. The 4-CM388s light up fine, the 2-CM386 did not.
Now here's the strange part..... my electrical system is 12v!
As per your info, I should be using the CM386s. Why would 28v bulbs be working
and not the 12v bulbs in my 12v system?
Now I'm really confused.....
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
Offshore we set up inputs to the safety system one of two ways. Either all
of the devices are normally closed and when the circuit opens then we take
appropriate action. Or there is a resistor or some kind of end of circuit
device that we can monitor to determine if the wire is broken. The
advantages of the second are that you can tell the difference between a
broken wire and a tripped device. The disadvantage is complexity. The
worst possible scenario is to have a device lose connection to the control
system and no one know it. Then have a fire or a process upset that the
device should have checked also go unnoticed because of it.
After saying that, most of the inputs to my annunciator in my RV-7 are going
to be NO, but I have a way to check that each is working prior to take-off.
So worst case is that I have both a sensor failure and the failure that the
sensor was to detect all in the same flight. In your case however I would
think that it would be a good idea to have the circuit NC because, as you
said, the fire that you are trying to detect is the one that will burn the
wires.
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fire Detector
>
> Bob wrote:
> You've got a 40-hour fly-off to do. Suggest you investigate these
> values and then enlighten us.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Yes, but....., I think that many times the fly-off period is when major
> problems, if any, rear their scary heads. I don't want to wait until
after
> I need a fire detector to install one. Fortunately a few guys have made
> suggestions regarding maximum acceptable cowling exit air temperatures,
> ranging from 51degreesC to 86degreesC. I think I'll start out with a 95C
> encapsulated thermostat. If I get nuisance trips during the fly-off
> period, I'll increase the temperature range. Now for an important
question:
> Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
> difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
> "open" a sensor wire......
>
> Regards,
> Troy
> tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Charlie,
Good luck with Slobbovia Outernational etc., however - could you
possibly use "B,c.c:" - Blind Carbon Copy for any address list containing
more than a very few addresses? What crooked servers do is relay messages
with large address lists AFTER having stripped the list for sale to
spammmers. Your last invitation contained all the neccessary ingredients for
Matronics to be stripping SPAM messages for the next 30 years.
Thanks,
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
Critical sensors are always "fail-safe" in other words a failure of the
detection system sounds the alarm, OR they are monitored in some way
that gives indication of a failed system. The former is usually much
easier to implement. In your case the NC sensor serves this purpose.
Bob McC
Troy Scott wrote:
>Yes, but....
>Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
>difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
>"open" a sensor wire......
>
>Regards,
>Troy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
Jack;
It is conceivable that the higher voltage bulbs were substituted into
the lower voltage system because the original bulbs were too bright. A
28 volt bulb in a 12 volt system is a very simple way to reduce
brightness if a lower wattage bulb is not conveniently available in the
correct voltage. It's also possible that coincidentally both of your 12
volt bulbs are burnt out. The other advantage of using the higher
voltage bulb is to dramatically increase its service life. Therefore, in
your case, the 12 volt bulbs would require replacement several times
before the 28 volt bulbs did, assuming equal usage.
Bob McC
Jack Lockamy wrote:
> The 4-CM388s light up fine, the 2-CM386 did not. Now here's the strange part.....
my electrical system is 12v!
> Why would 28v bulbs be working and not the 12v bulbs in my 12v system?
>
>Now I'm really confused.....
>
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Am I correct in thinking the wires to the ears can be a pair of asw22 and to
the mike a shielded wire using the shield as the return assuming the PTT is
acting on the radio end?
Thanks, Steve.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
>
>Thanks for the info Bob...
>
>It's pretty strange. I have 6 annunciator bulbs in 3 annunciators.... 4
>of them are CM388s and 2-CM386s. The 4-CM388s light up fine, the 2-CM386
>did not. Now here's the strange part..... my electrical system is 12v!
>
>As per your info, I should be using the CM386s. Why would 28v bulbs be
>working and not the 12v bulbs in my 12v system?
>
>Now I'm really confused.....
As others have noted, the original designer may have used
28v lamps to achieve lower intensity as well as a HUGE increase
in lamp life. An incandescent lamp operated at 50% of rated
voltage puts out about 10% of rated intensity and has a life
of 4000 times the rated life. (Edison's earliest production
lamps operate at very low temperatures compared to modern
lamps . . . while rather low in light output and red in
color, some of his originals have been burning continuously
24 hrs a day since he screwed them in the sockets lots of
years ago).
As to lamps that don't work, there's probably another
perfectly good explanation . . . lamp burned out or
some part of the circuit is unhooked.
As to pricing, I'm not aware of any particular lamps going
obsolete to the extent that pricing them like antiques
is common. The lamps we're discussing are readily available
in full boxes for under $1 each. The $9 price cited
is undoubtedly the offering of someone who not
really interested in being a lamp dealer. If
I could offered d-sub pins at $1 each, I could
easily avoid being in the connector business too.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: radio wiring |
>
>
>Am I correct in thinking the wires to the ears can be a pair of asw22 and to
>the mike a shielded wire using the shield as the return assuming the PTT is
>acting on the radio end?
I think I'm getting an accurate image of your question . . .
If all the wires in a microphone and/or headphone circuit were
simply a twisted pair (headset) or twisted trio (microphone +
PTT), the system has a 99 plus percent chance of being just fine.
The major noise mitigation features to seek in wiring these
devices are (1) no ground loops - carry "grounds" all the way
back to radio/intercom and (2) close parallel proximity
of both inbound and outbound electrons for the device - twisted
pairs. If you choose to use shielded wires for any or all of these
circuits, you're now 99.9 plus percent assured of noise free
operation.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> Okay, it's almost a sure bet that unhooking the ov module will
> stop the tripping but it's worth a confirmation.
Unhooked the ov module and the same thing happened. I pulled all fuses but
the starter and a fuel pump and the circuit breaker still is tripping.
HELP!
>
> The next question to scope out is what's agitating the
> ov module? I presume the system ran well on the new module
> until recently . . . have you made any changes to the system . . .
> installed any new equipment?
No new equipment
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
Here's some thoughts on "temp range" for your detector system. I want to
cover two different types of "high temp" events:
1) exhaust leak (turns on OVERHEAT light in fighters) - ambient temp in
engine compartment won't get as hot as "flames"or fire - will be exhaust
gas, quite a bit below "flame temp" because the "flame" has already burned
out and the residual HOT gas is being empied out of the "flame container" -
still very hot and very destructive of whatever is close to the leak. Gets
diluted as it expands into the engine compartment and out wherever it exits.
(in jets, the overheat is for either a tailpipe (exhaust) leak OR a
compressor leak -over 1000 deg when air is compressed before having fuel
injected, and is bled off for various uses - is a "genie out of the bottle"
when it leaks - N/A to RV's)
2) FIRE (turns on FIRE light in military fighters). Fire can be from
fuel or spraying/leaking pressurized oil.
I'm planning on 1) an overheat light for temps around 500 degrees F (has to
be well above coolant temp of 240F max) and has to allow for some air
passing over the exhaust manifold and pipes that is going to be hot); then
2) a fire light for temps at or above 1500 F.
- I'll take refinements on those threshholds if anyone cites actual
threshholds in use in certified or military aircraft - 500 & 1500F are off
the top of my head.
Emergency procedure for "overheat" will be to reduce power to idle to see if
light goes out with reduction in volume and temp of exhaust leak. If
doesn't go off, and fire light does NOT come on, I may just keep it at idle
and glide to a suitable landing and takeoff place and use a bit of power to
assure a safe landing.
Emergency procedure for "fire" will be 1) shut off fuel to engine
compartment (save plane and occupants), 2) activate halogen fire
extinguisher system in engine compartment, 3) dead stick landing.
- Of course, I have to have confidence that the "fire" light really
means I have a fire. In the T-33, there were about 5 or 7 items that could
be causing the "fire" light to illuminate. #5 or 7 was "fire. I.e., wasn't
a very reliable system.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fire Detector
>
> Bob wrote:
> You've got a 40-hour fly-off to do. Suggest you investigate these
> values and then enlighten us.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Yes, but....., I think that many times the fly-off period is when major
> problems, if any, rear their scary heads. I don't want to wait until
after
> I need a fire detector to install one. Fortunately a few guys have made
> suggestions regarding maximum acceptable cowling exit air temperatures,
> ranging from 51degreesC to 86degreesC. I think I'll start out with a 95C
> encapsulated thermostat. If I get nuisance trips during the fly-off
> period, I'll increase the temperature range. Now for an important
question:
> Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
> difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
> "open" a sensor wire......
>
> Regards,
> Troy
> tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Excuse me if this has been discussed here before. I couldn't find a
search engine for the list, and Google has been nearly useless. Seems
that it is beginnning to turn up more and more sales adds, and less and
less information.
I'm building a Dyke Delta (just finished the elevons today!). The
battery is as far back in the tail as it can be, making for a starter
cable run of about 15ft. I'm trying to gather up information on the
feasibility of making this run with aluminum wire.
What I've gotten so far is from a thread on rec.aviation.homebuilt
(notice that Google in only NEARLY useless). I'd want to use #1 wire,
to keep the resistance low, but even that will save me about 3lbs over
the #4 copper. One person commented that Al wire has been used in some
certified ships (a solid bar was used in a Bellanca, if I remember
correctly).
My plan would be to run the aluminum from one side of a manual
contactor, to a block on the cockpit side of the firewall. I would run
the rest of the electrics from this block, and a jumper of #4 welding
wire would go out to the starter. The Al wire would be securely
strapped to a longeron of the steel tube fuselage.
What I can't find information on is what sort of connectors to use. I
know oxidized Al is resistive and it's different rate of expansion WILL
allow oxygen in a joint if the wrong metal is used. You can't just bolt
it down and hope for the best. Ideally, the wire ends would be TIG
welded onto a block of some sort of compatible metal.
Is this a reasonable idea, or are there already a dozen airplanes
sitting in trees because someone tried?
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum wire |
Piper used Aluminum cable. Bogart has an STC to replace it. If you use
Aluminum make sure you use the sealing compound for aluminum wire as AL
joints gradually corrode and become high resistance if it isn't used.
Incidentally my Bellanca uses only copper wire (1948) Why don't you ask John
Dyke for his opinion?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum wire
>
> Excuse me if this has been discussed here before. I couldn't find a
> search engine for the list, and Google has been nearly useless. Seems
> that it is beginnning to turn up more and more sales adds, and less and
> less information.
>
> I'm building a Dyke Delta (just finished the elevons today!). The
> battery is as far back in the tail as it can be, making for a starter
> cable run of about 15ft. I'm trying to gather up information on the
> feasibility of making this run with aluminum wire.
>
> What I've gotten so far is from a thread on rec.aviation.homebuilt
> (notice that Google in only NEARLY useless). I'd want to use #1 wire,
> to keep the resistance low, but even that will save me about 3lbs over
> the #4 copper. One person commented that Al wire has been used in some
> certified ships (a solid bar was used in a Bellanca, if I remember
> correctly).
>
> My plan would be to run the aluminum from one side of a manual
> contactor, to a block on the cockpit side of the firewall. I would run
> the rest of the electrics from this block, and a jumper of #4 welding
> wire would go out to the starter. The Al wire would be securely
> strapped to a longeron of the steel tube fuselage.
>
> What I can't find information on is what sort of connectors to use. I
> know oxidized Al is resistive and it's different rate of expansion WILL
> allow oxygen in a joint if the wrong metal is used. You can't just bolt
> it down and hope for the best. Ideally, the wire ends would be TIG
> welded onto a block of some sort of compatible metal.
>
> Is this a reasonable idea, or are there already a dozen airplanes
> sitting in trees because someone tried?
>
> --
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> alleviated by information and experience."
> Veeduber
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum wire |
P.S. If it were mine I'd find some where else to save the 4 pounds. It isn't
worth the trouble.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor-in-Chief & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum wire
>
> Excuse me if this has been discussed here before. I couldn't find a
> search engine for the list, and Google has been nearly useless. Seems
> that it is beginnning to turn up more and more sales adds, and less and
> less information.
>
> I'm building a Dyke Delta (just finished the elevons today!). The
> battery is as far back in the tail as it can be, making for a starter
> cable run of about 15ft. I'm trying to gather up information on the
> feasibility of making this run with aluminum wire.
>
> What I've gotten so far is from a thread on rec.aviation.homebuilt
> (notice that Google in only NEARLY useless). I'd want to use #1 wire,
> to keep the resistance low, but even that will save me about 3lbs over
> the #4 copper. One person commented that Al wire has been used in some
> certified ships (a solid bar was used in a Bellanca, if I remember
> correctly).
>
> My plan would be to run the aluminum from one side of a manual
> contactor, to a block on the cockpit side of the firewall. I would run
> the rest of the electrics from this block, and a jumper of #4 welding
> wire would go out to the starter. The Al wire would be securely
> strapped to a longeron of the steel tube fuselage.
>
> What I can't find information on is what sort of connectors to use. I
> know oxidized Al is resistive and it's different rate of expansion WILL
> allow oxygen in a joint if the wrong metal is used. You can't just bolt
> it down and hope for the best. Ideally, the wire ends would be TIG
> welded onto a block of some sort of compatible metal.
>
> Is this a reasonable idea, or are there already a dozen airplanes
> sitting in trees because someone tried?
>
> --
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> alleviated by information and experience."
> Veeduber
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A theoretical question |
There was once a french engine built called a Potez
It was about 100 hp and had battery and points ignition.
It had an electical system that allowed operation on
battery only or alternator only. There was a big
capacitor wired in the system somewhere to allow
this alternator only mode. The wireing diagram is
at
http://www.jodel.com/potezwiring.htm
So it may be possible to do this maybe you just
need a particular type of alternator and big capacitor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum wire |
If I recall right there was an AD on the Pipers to replace the aluminum
cable with copper $$$.
I agree with the other post - go with copper and figure another way to save
weight. If you do use aluminum there is a paste you apply to the wire
before it terminated, make sure you use it. Welding the cable to a solid
block is no different than tinning wires before you crimp them, it's a no
no on military aircraft wiring as it has been established it may break at
the junction of the tinned and bare wire.when subjected to vibration.
jerb
>
>Piper used Aluminum cable. Bogart has an STC to replace it. If you use
>Aluminum make sure you use the sealing compound for aluminum wire as AL
>joints gradually corrode and become high resistance if it isn't used.
>
>Incidentally my Bellanca uses only copper wire (1948) Why don't you ask John
>Dyke for his opinion?
>
>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.org
>
>Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum wire
>
>
>
> >
> > Excuse me if this has been discussed here before. I couldn't find a
> > search engine for the list, and Google has been nearly useless. Seems
> > that it is beginnning to turn up more and more sales adds, and less and
> > less information.
> >
> > I'm building a Dyke Delta (just finished the elevons today!). The
> > battery is as far back in the tail as it can be, making for a starter
> > cable run of about 15ft. I'm trying to gather up information on the
> > feasibility of making this run with aluminum wire.
> >
> > What I've gotten so far is from a thread on rec.aviation.homebuilt
> > (notice that Google in only NEARLY useless). I'd want to use #1 wire,
> > to keep the resistance low, but even that will save me about 3lbs over
> > the #4 copper. One person commented that Al wire has been used in some
> > certified ships (a solid bar was used in a Bellanca, if I remember
> > correctly).
> >
> > My plan would be to run the aluminum from one side of a manual
> > contactor, to a block on the cockpit side of the firewall. I would run
> > the rest of the electrics from this block, and a jumper of #4 welding
> > wire would go out to the starter. The Al wire would be securely
> > strapped to a longeron of the steel tube fuselage.
> >
> > What I can't find information on is what sort of connectors to use. I
> > know oxidized Al is resistive and it's different rate of expansion WILL
> > allow oxygen in a joint if the wrong metal is used. You can't just bolt
> > it down and hope for the best. Ideally, the wire ends would be TIG
> > welded onto a block of some sort of compatible metal.
> >
> > Is this a reasonable idea, or are there already a dozen airplanes
> > sitting in trees because someone tried?
> >
> > --
> > http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> > "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> > alleviated by information and experience."
> > Veeduber
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum wire |
>
>If I recall right there was an AD on the Pipers to replace the aluminum
>cable with copper $$$.
>
>I agree with the other post - go with copper and figure another way to save
>weight. If you do use aluminum there is a paste you apply to the wire
>before it terminated, make sure you use it. Welding the cable to a solid
>block is no different than tinning wires before you crimp them, it's a no
>no on military aircraft wiring as it has been established it may break at
>the junction of the tinned and bare wire.when subjected to vibration.
The downsides of soldering and/or 'welding' are fraught with
myth.
In practice, bring all strands of a multi-strand
wire together in a gas-tight crimp, solder OR "weld" will
in fact make the strands behave as if they were a single
solid strand of copper. ALL such connections benefit from
vibration support immediately adjacent to the joint to
avoid failures commonly attributed only to soldered
connections.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
All that has been offered vis-a-vis "aluminum" wires has
some degree of fact but much misunderstanding too.
Pure aluminum wire is famous for its special handling
requirements and relatively unfriendly performance in
aircraft. Piper did a short marriage with copper and wound
up scrapping it. There was no AD against them that I'm aware
of, just a rip-off STC to force an owner operator to buy
pre-assembled copper wires with terminals crimped on each
end while airplanes before-and-after-aluminum all used
copper fat wires. Any mechanic worth his a/p ticked could
envoke AC43-13 guidlines an replace the aluminum wire with
copper for a fraction of the price. Cessna's Cardinal had
aluminum wires in it first year. Operation Cardinal Rule
replace the wires with copper and accomplished a number
of additional enhancements to the airplane in the second
year of production.
There was some discussion a few months back about
COPPER CLAD aluminum wire. This is a whole new breed
of cat. In many respects it handles just like copper
wire but with the benefits of weight reduction.
Eric Jones has offered to provide fat wires to the
OBAM aircraft community fabricated from this new
material.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A theoretical question |
>
>There was once a french engine built called a Potez
>It was about 100 hp and had battery and points ignition.
>It had an electical system that allowed operation on
>battery only or alternator only. There was a big
>capacitor wired in the system somewhere to allow
>this alternator only mode. The wireing diagram is
>at
>http://www.jodel.com/potezwiring.htm
>
>So it may be possible to do this maybe you just
>need a particular type of alternator and big capacitor.
The wiring diagram shows a one-wire alternator (which
suggests either a PM alternator or a wound-field alternator
with a built-in regulator. Since the diagram also calls
out a regulator, it seems reasonable to presume that the
alternator IS a permanent magnet type. The alternator has
a capacitor across it in the schematic . . . but I'm mystified
by the fact that the alternator output connects to ground
and has a capacitor across the output. This suggest that
the alternator also has rectifiers in it and the capacitor
offers some degree of smoothing. This would make the regulator
some form of pure-linear design using fat transistors on fatter
heatsinks. I couldn't think of a more difficult approach
to the problem.
Elegant designs not withstanding, the addition of
a capacitor into ANY system with ANY style alternator
will offer a degree of battery emulation that would
offset some of the shortcomings of alternator-only
operations. I would encourage anyone who wishes to
explore this option to give it a try and to publish
the results of a repeatable experiment here on the
list. Let's talk about how to set up the experiment
and to test for potential benefits of this modification.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper Clad Aluminum Wire |
I stand guilty as charged. I apologize to those who have been waiting, and
I concede defeat in attempting to cable and insulate this stuff myself. It
was not for lack of effort!
But finally I have located a cable manufacturer that is both interested and
willing to make a reasonably quantity of the 1/0 (Substitute for the AWG 2
copper). The material is ON THE WAY THERE, ETA Tuesday. They quote 20
working days to product.
Thanks to those who supported me in this, especially Bob Nuckolls. Thanks
for the many emails of encouragement from the members of the Aeroelectric
List.
Check my website. The Space Shuttle Switch Guards are stunningly good.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
>
>
>
> > Okay, it's almost a sure bet that unhooking the ov module will
> > stop the tripping but it's worth a confirmation.
>
>Unhooked the ov module and the same thing happened. I pulled all fuses but
>the starter and a fuel pump and the circuit breaker still is tripping.
>HELP!
Okay, then it's a fault of some kind downstream of the breaker
that's tripping. Wire rubbed to ground, bad regulator, . . .
something along that line. You're getting close.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuseblocks |
I have the B&C fuseblocks and am interested to know what screws/nutplates
folk have been using to mount them on an ally bulkhead. Without modifying
the fuseblocks this is not as obvious (at least to me) as it should be.
Thanks, Steve.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Yes my query was perhaps too terse.
I was thinking that for the headphones (ears) even a twisted pair was not
necessary since it seemed an unlikely source of gremlins into the system.
From your email I understand a shielded wire would be best.
For the microphone I had made the assumption there would only be two wires
(hence a wire and shield) and the PTT would be activated by taking one of
these to ground, but I was planning to do this via the PTT at the radio not
jack end of the wire for routing reasons. (I havn't bought a radio yet -
probably Microair or XCOM) and am making assumptions about how the wiring
diag will look, perhaps erroniously. I will go with two shielded twisted
wires.
Whatever happens all the grounds will run back to a forest of tabs on the
firewall.
Thanks, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring
>
>
>Am I correct in thinking the wires to the ears can be a pair of asw22 and
to
>the mike a shielded wire using the shield as the return assuming the PTT is
>acting on the radio end?
I think I'm getting an accurate image of your question . . .
If all the wires in a microphone and/or headphone circuit were
simply a twisted pair (headset) or twisted trio (microphone +
PTT), the system has a 99 plus percent chance of being just fine.
The major noise mitigation features to seek in wiring these
devices are (1) no ground loops - carry "grounds" all the way
back to radio/intercom and (2) close parallel proximity
of both inbound and outbound electrons for the device - twisted
pairs. If you choose to use shielded wires for any or all of these
circuits, you're now 99.9 plus percent assured of noise free
operation.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
In the nose of my airplane (a canard pusher) I have 2 MR-16 lamps. They
were originally installed as landing lights but they aren't nearly bright
enough, so I'm putting in an HID light attached to my front landing gear.
I'd like to flash them as anti-collision lights, but they're so close
together I don't know if I should wig-wag them, or flash them
together. Will you module allow me to flash them together?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frequent flyer <jdhcv(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Brass Bolt & Washers |
Bob, bought the grond blocks from B & C for my Glasair
but the firewall is much ticker and I can only get one
nut on the bolt with no bolt left over. Need a bolt
that is abo9ut 3/4" longer and washers to make up the
firewall thickness. Havn't been able to locate any
locally. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Jack
Glasair II-S FT
Camp Verde, AZ
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brass Bolt & Washers |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
I got some longer ones from McMaster Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/keywordsearch/search.asp?sesnextrep=409754603155953&input=%22brass+studs%22&link=%3CFONT+COLOR%3D%27006400%27+FACE%3D%27Verdana%27+size%3D%27%2D2%27%3E%3C%2FFONT%3E&expanded=0&nodetype=nominal#ScrollPosition
If this does not work, go to www.mcmaster.com and search for "brass
studs". Be sure to use the quotes. If you need nuts, they only sell by
the box. Same for lockwashers. I have a box of 5/16 washers and nuts if
you need a few.
Cheers,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
>
>
>Bob wrote:
> You've got a 40-hour fly-off to do. Suggest you investigate these
> values and then enlighten us.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Yes, but....., I think that many times the fly-off period is when major
>problems, if any, rear their scary heads. I don't want to wait until after
>I need a fire detector to install one. Fortunately a few guys have made
>suggestions regarding maximum acceptable cowling exit air temperatures,
>ranging from 51degreesC to 86degreesC. I think I'll start out with a 95C
>encapsulated thermostat. If I get nuisance trips during the fly-off
>period, I'll increase the temperature range. Now for an important question:
>Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
>difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
>"open" a sensor wire......
>
>Regards,
>Troy
How will you differentiate between a nuisance trip and a real fire?
How will you respond to a fire indication?
I'm not sure a home-brew fire detection system is worth the trouble.
I've had several fire indications over the years from supposedly well
engineered systems, and they all turned out to be false alarms. I'd
be very surprised if a home-brew system works better.
If you've got a super-reliable fire detection system, then you can
treat all fire indications as being real fires. I.e. close the fuel
valve, etc and go for a forced landing. If the indication is suspect
I'm not sure it really helps you very much.
Just my two cents worth. It's your aircraft.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Brass Bolt & Washers |
I bought a pair of brass toilet hold-down bolts for the firewall penetration
of the ground on my RV-8A but found I won't need them after all. I think
they were less than $1.00 each.
Terry
Bob, bought the grond blocks from B & C for my Glasair
but the firewall is much ticker and I can only get one
nut on the bolt with no bolt left over. Need a bolt
that is abo9ut 3/4" longer and washers to make up the
firewall thickness. Havn't been able to locate any
locally. Any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Brass Bolt & Washers |
Why not use the Plumbing department at your local hardware store?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brass Bolt & Washers
>
> I got some longer ones from McMaster Carr
>
>
http://www.mcmaster.com/keywordsearch/search.asp?sesnextrep=409754603155953&
input=%22brass+studs%22&link=%3CFONT+COLOR%3D%27006400%27+FACE%3D%27Verdana%
27+size%3D%27%2D2%27%3E%3C%2FFONT%3E&expanded=0&nodetype=nominal#ScrollPosit
ion
>
> If this does not work, go to www.mcmaster.com and search for "brass
> studs". Be sure to use the quotes. If you need nuts, they only sell by
> the box. Same for lockwashers. I have a box of 5/16 washers and nuts if
> you need a few.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
OK, gang...Here is the report I promised. I got a new 17ah Panasonic
battery, charged it overnight, and repeated the tests....with very nearly
the SAME results. (sigh)
So...I am going to try to gang the two 17ah batteries together (mounted
about 2ft apart) and try again as soon as I receive the required
wire/terminal ends. Remember, the single 28ah battery spun the engine
easily...so two 17s should do the trick - and I'll get the benefit of extra
juice and a second battery source if I add a second electronic ignition
someday.
In review of the AEC, it is recommended to add a battery relay to isolate
the secondary battery. I'll do that...but I am wondering if there is
functional difference between connecting the second battery relay to the bus
structure (as depicted in Figure 17-6), or rather connecting it to the
battery side of the main contactor? I'm running out of room on the bus side
post of the master relay. Also, is there a good way to keep from forgetting
to turn the Aux battery off so the relay doesn't drain it? I'm already
thinking - covered rocker switch.
Thanks all,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> >Reminder: Canard pusher Z-12 design with PM starter (SkyTek), new high
> >compression IO-360, aft mounted battery/relays/starter, .3 ohms from batt
> >ground terminal to all points on the engine, all wired with #4 and #2
wire.
> >
> >I first tested the cranking ability of the big 26ah Panasonic battery
with
> >the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on battery terminals)
> >12.5v starting charge - static
> >12.3v with master on - minimal consumption
> >9.5v when starter engaged and turning
> >Note: turns engine over easily, at least 10 blades, four tries, still has
> >more to go.
> >7.2v when starter engaged after multiple tries but prop no longer turning
> >12.2v after flogging with master off
> >
> >Immediate attempt to charge - registers 12 amps at 13.3v on automotive
> >charger.
> >
> >Next, I tested the cranking ability of the freshly charged 17ah Panasonic
> >battery with the following results: (measured with Fluke digital on
battery
> >terminals)
> >12.9v starting charge - static
> >12.6v with master on - minimal consumption
> >6.1v when starter engaged and (barely) turning
> >Note: barely turns engine over, get 2 blades then prop stops, two more
> >tries, will no longer turn prop.
> >12.3v after flogging with master off
>
> The Panasonic is probably bad. They test here at 300 to 400A
> for 9 volts at the terminals.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Field alternator circuit breaker |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "John Karnes"
jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net
<....skip....Unhooked the ov module and the same thing happened. I pulled
all fuses but
the starter and a fuel pump and the circuit breaker still is tripping.
HELP!....skip....>
4/4/04
Hello John, have you checked out the CB itself? This could be done by
temporarily bypassing the CB and using a comparable fuse in a fuse holder to replace
the CB.
If the fuse also blows when activating the circuit then the CB is telling you
the truth -- you have a circuit fault. If the fuse doesn't blow and the
circuit works fine then you have a bad CB.
Keep in mind that equivalent amperage fuses and CB don't have exactly the
same reaction characteristics.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Phil, Robert, David (et al):
Thanks for the input!
I'll consider two "levels" of temperature alarms: One that would suggest
just an exhaust leak, and another that would suggest fire.
Also, I'll plan to use a NC sensor with some self-diagnostic feature.
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brass Bolt & Washers |
>
>
>I got some longer ones from McMaster Carr
>
>http://www.mcmaster.com/keywordsearch/search.asp?sesnextrep=409754603155953&input=%22brass+studs%22&link=%3CFONT+COLOR%3D%27006400%27+FACE%3D%27Verdana%27+size%3D%27%2D2%27%3E%3C%2FFONT%3E&expanded=0&nodetype=nominal#ScrollPosition
>
>If this does not work, go to www.mcmaster.com and search for "brass
>studs". Be sure to use the quotes. If you need nuts, they only sell by
>the box. Same for lockwashers. I have a box of 5/16 washers and nuts if
>you need a few.
B&C stocks some longer ones for the composite firewalls.
Did you ask them what they could do for you?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuseblocks |
I used AN509 type screws with washer and AN lock nut. (I don't like
mounting plate nuts if I can get to both sides of the mounting wall after
everything is installed for maintenance purposes -- and in this case it
wasn't a problem.)
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks
>
> I have the B&C fuseblocks and am interested to know what screws/nutplates
> folk have been using to mount them on an ally bulkhead. Without modifying
> the fuseblocks this is not as obvious (at least to me) as it should be.
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brass Bolt & Washers |
At 04:14 PM 4/4/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>I got some longer ones from McMaster Carr
>
>http://www.mcmaster.com/keywordsearch/search.asp?sesnextrep=409754603155953&input=%22brass+studs%22&link=%3CFONT+COLOR%3D%27006400%27+FACE%3D%27Verdana%27+size%3D%27%2D2%27%3E%3C%2FFONT%3E&expanded=0&nodetype=nominal#ScrollPosition
>
>If this does not work, go to www.mcmaster.com and search for "brass
>studs". Be sure to use the quotes. If you need nuts, they only sell by
>the box. Same for lockwashers. I have a box of 5/16 washers and nuts if
>you need a few.
>
>Cheers,
>
>John
Hi John....this says they come in lots of 10.
If you got ten, would you sell a couple to me?
I would like a couple of bolts and washers too pls.
Thanks
Neil
660 Forest Cove
Oviedo FL
32765
407 366 8470
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brass Bolt & Washers |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hi Neil -
I bought a package of 5 2" x 5/16" d for $2.80 Their stock # is 93025
A973. I needed 5 of them.
How many nuts & washers do you need?
Cheers,
John
>
> Hi John....this says they come in lots of 10.
> If you got ten, would you sell a couple to me?
> I would like a couple of bolts and washers too pls.
> Thanks
> Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery |
troubles
>
>OK, gang...Here is the report I promised. I got a new 17ah Panasonic
>battery, charged it overnight, and repeated the tests....with very nearly
>the SAME results. (sigh)
>
>So...I am going to try to gang the two 17ah batteries together (mounted
>about 2ft apart) and try again as soon as I receive the required
>wire/terminal ends. Remember, the single 28ah battery spun the engine
>easily...so two 17s should do the trick - and I'll get the benefit of extra
>juice and a second battery source if I add a second electronic ignition
>someday.
>
>In review of the AEC, it is recommended to add a battery relay to isolate
>the secondary battery. I'll do that...but I am wondering if there is
>functional difference between connecting the second battery relay to the bus
>structure (as depicted in Figure 17-6), or rather connecting it to the
>battery side of the main contactor? I'm running out of room on the bus side
>post of the master relay. Also, is there a good way to keep from forgetting
>to turn the Aux battery off so the relay doesn't drain it? I'm already
>thinking - covered rocker switch.
If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Yes my query was perhaps too terse.
>
>I was thinking that for the headphones (ears) even a twisted pair was not
>necessary since it seemed an unlikely source of gremlins into the system.
> From your email I understand a shielded wire would be best.
>
>For the microphone I had made the assumption there would only be two wires
>(hence a wire and shield) and the PTT would be activated by taking one of
>these to ground, but I was planning to do this via the PTT at the radio not
>jack end of the wire for routing reasons. (I havn't bought a radio yet -
>probably Microair or XCOM) and am making assumptions about how the wiring
>diag will look, perhaps erroniously. I will go with two shielded twisted
>wires.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
for an exemplar wiring diagram for comm transceiver. Also,
if you DO decide to install the 760VHF, I still have a few
wire harnesses for that radio.
>Whatever happens all the grounds will run back to a forest of tabs on the
>firewall.
Just POWER grounds go to the forest of tabs ground block. Signal
grounds and shields wire as shown in installation diagrams.
Check out diagrams in the installation manual I cited above.
The only wires that go to the ground block have the
G3(PNL) notation on the ground symbol.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ignitions lock switch |
Gentlemen,
I'd like to avoid the "hot ignition syndrome" in my Glasair with dual
Electroair electronic ignition systems. I'm considering the use of a
key-operated DP switch to control the power to the two ignitions. I realize
this creates a single-point failure. However, it seems like it might be the
best way to avoid the possibility of an accidental start if/when a switch is
accidentally left on. Check out Digikey part number CKC1235-ND and let me
know if you think this switch is up to the task.
I also want to avoid an accidental actuation of the starter. Scenario: The
canopy is open at a fly-in. An incorrigibly curious person reaches in and
flips a couple of switches, including the battery and start switches. This
happens while someone is closely checking out the propeller. I've bought a
300 amp key-operated battery switch for this particular possibility.
However, I don't much like the idea. Might it be better to install a hidden
"kill switch" that only interrupts the primary on the starter contactor? An
even simpler possibility is to just pull the fuse for the starter contactor
or the battery contactor whenever the airplane is left open.
What are you guys doing about these worries?
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
> If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
> batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
> as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
> so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
> Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
> size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for
your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp),
w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version.
Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12,
canard with battery in the back:
Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex cable -
master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall -
30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to engine
mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex
strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded under
engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with the
exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps
between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot
during multiple starts.
From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does
anywhere on the engine case.
Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll
report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to
accommodate a single 28ah battery.
Thanks,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
Troy,
I recall an article in an airplane magazine where the author showed how to build
a flame detector using a series of infrared LEDs. Apparantly, these also work
to detect as well as emit IR. This was said to detect a leak from the exhaust
quickly, and is of course independent of temperature exhausting from the cowl.
The problem, it would seem, is that a small, high temperature exhaust leak
will not heat up the large volume of cowl air until it ignites something.
I can't recall what magazine. I looked for articles by Jim Weir, and also the
Kitplanes index. I did not do a search of the EAA index, though. You might
wish to look into this.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Alternator Field Circuit Breaker |
Hi,
I know there is a description somewhere in the book
or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to
install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker,
but I can't seem to locate it.
Can someone point me to this text?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker |
Maybe you are referring to the requirement that the 5amp CB be used when
using B and C's LR3 voltage regulator. That is how the VR shuts down the
ALT when it senses an OV condition.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker
>
> Hi,
>
> I know there is a description somewhere in the book
> or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to
> install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker,
> but I can't seem to locate it.
>
> Can someone point me to this text?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
----- Original Message -----
From: <N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
>
> Thanks to all. Found what I needed locally in an AMP circular flanged
> connector. Now I am wishing I used these for all of my connectors rather
than the
> usual D-subs since they are bayonet locking rather than using the little
metal
> screws to hold them together.
(((((((((())))))))))))
You could try using safety wire for holding d-subs together rather than the
tiny screws. That way it cannot vibrate it self loose.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
((((((((((()))))))))
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> In a message dated 3/30/2004 7:53:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
standard
> > >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> > >
> > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
easier.
> > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
> >
> > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
((((((((())))))))))
Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a
great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold
pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct?
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge
((((((((((()))))))))))
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
standard
> >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> >
> >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
easier.
> >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
>
> See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>
>
> >TIA for a great service provided.
>
> You're welcome!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
>
>
>((((((((())))))))))
>Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a
>great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold
>pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct?
Yes . . . but so many others already offer them . . .
I don't stock detail parts any more but B&C does. I'll forward
a copy of this to Todd and see what he thinks.
Bob . . .
>Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
>TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>JeffRose Flightline Interiors
>Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge
>((((((((((()))))))))))
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >
> > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
>standard
> > >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> > >
> > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
>easier.
> > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
> >
> > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
> >
> >
> > >TIA for a great service provided.
> >
> > You're welcome!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> > ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> > ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
>
>
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I'd like to avoid the "hot ignition syndrome" in my Glasair with dual
>Electroair electronic ignition systems. I'm considering the use of a
>key-operated DP switch to control the power to the two ignitions. I realize
>this creates a single-point failure. However, it seems like it might be the
>best way to avoid the possibility of an accidental start if/when a switch is
>accidentally left on. Check out Digikey part number CKC1235-ND and let me
>know if you think this switch is up to the task.
>
>I also want to avoid an accidental actuation of the starter. Scenario: The
>canopy is open at a fly-in. An incorrigibly curious person reaches in and
>flips a couple of switches, including the battery and start switches. This
>happens while someone is closely checking out the propeller. I've bought a
>300 amp key-operated battery switch for this particular possibility.
>However, I don't much like the idea. Might it be better to install a hidden
>"kill switch" that only interrupts the primary on the starter contactor? An
>even simpler possibility is to just pull the fuse for the starter contactor
>or the battery contactor whenever the airplane is left open.
>
>What are you guys doing about these worries?
. . . for the most part, most folks don't worry about 'em.
I've been working in and around aircraft for 40+ years. Every
accident involving people and propellers was precipitated
by the actions of people who ALREADY had keys or knew where
HIDDEN switches were. Policy and procedure will never replace
experience and common sense.
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
>
> > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
> > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
> > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
> > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
> > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
> > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
>
>I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for
>your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp),
>w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version.
>
>Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12,
>canard with battery in the back:
>
>Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex cable -
>master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall -
>30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to engine
>mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex
>strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded under
>engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with the
>exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps
>between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot
>during multiple starts.
>
> From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does
>anywhere on the engine case.
>
>Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll
>report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to
>accommodate a single 28ah battery.
It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter
performs in this application. Everything you've described
suggests that the starter is the questionable variable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a dual
Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of pics for
the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm thinking of hanging
the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them close to the exhaust
and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box around the sump to get to
the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the coils behind the acc. case??
Any input/advice on how others have done this would be appreciated...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuseblocks |
Larry right after I sent a mail to Charlie I saw yours. I think I tried
AN509-8, but I must have made a mistake. I will take a look tomorrow again.
Thanks, Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks
I used AN509 type screws with washer and AN lock nut. (I don't like
mounting plate nuts if I can get to both sides of the mounting wall after
everything is installed for maintenance purposes -- and in this case it
wasn't a problem.)
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks
>
> I have the B&C fuseblocks and am interested to know what screws/nutplates
> folk have been using to mount them on an ally bulkhead. Without modifying
> the fuseblocks this is not as obvious (at least to me) as it should be.
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> ---
>
>
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Thanks Bob. Right now I cant make that web page work. I get an unavailable
message. I will try later, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring
>
>
>Yes my query was perhaps too terse.
>
>I was thinking that for the headphones (ears) even a twisted pair was not
>necessary since it seemed an unlikely source of gremlins into the system.
> From your email I understand a shielded wire would be best.
>
>For the microphone I had made the assumption there would only be two wires
>(hence a wire and shield) and the PTT would be activated by taking one of
>these to ground, but I was planning to do this via the PTT at the radio not
>jack end of the wire for routing reasons. (I havn't bought a radio yet -
>probably Microair or XCOM) and am making assumptions about how the wiring
>diag will look, perhaps erroniously. I will go with two shielded twisted
>wires.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
for an exemplar wiring diagram for comm transceiver. Also,
if you DO decide to install the 760VHF, I still have a few
wire harnesses for that radio.
>Whatever happens all the grounds will run back to a forest of tabs on the
>firewall.
Just POWER grounds go to the forest of tabs ground block. Signal
grounds and shields wire as shown in installation diagrams.
Check out diagrams in the installation manual I cited above.
The only wires that go to the ground block have the
G3(PNL) notation on the ground symbol.
Bob . . .
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says
you have to have two locks on your airplane?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Morris <dave(at)davemorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational |
Airport!!
Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope
every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already.
Dave Morris
>
>
>Greetings Fellow Aviators,
>
>The Lower Slobovia Outernational Garden Club would like to extend to You
>and Yours a cordial invitation to our next effort to cultivate more
>frequent pilotage, higher flour bombing accuracy, and an increased
>consumption of non plant food matter.
>
>We will be serving lunch to you on Saturday, June 5, 2004.
>
>I'll make available sheet metal tools & aluminum for anyone wanting
>their 1st exposure to metal work. For those interested in alternative
>engines, I'll try ot hav a Mazda rotary opened up for inspection.
>Formation flight teams are invited to attend & demonstrate their skills.
>(Mike Stewart, are you listening?) Plaques will be awarde for flour
>bombing, longest distance flown, & other categories & as determined by
>our totally biased judges.
>
>Anyone wishing to arrive on Friday and/or stay until Sunday is welcome
>to do so. Just throw a bedrool in your plane/car & we will find yo a
>place to sleep that's out of the heat. There are lots of spare bedrooms,
>hangar apartments, floor space, etc. available with the sponsoring
>families. We will do continental breakfast stuff in the morning & poll
>the participants for evening meal decisions. Some of our pilots actually
>consider themselves multitalented & encourage you to bring your musical
>instrument of choice for some homegrown music in the evening.
>
>Now for the details:
>
>Disclaimer: Slobovia is a private airport. Pilots operate at their own risk.
>
>You can get complete info about our airport at airnav.com
>http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71
>
>FAA Identifier: MS71
>Lat/Long: 32-29-42.508N / 090-17-34.325W
>32-29.70847N / 090-17.57208W
>32.4951411 / -90.2928681
>(estimated)
>Elevation: 250 ft. / 76 m (estimated)
>Variation: 03E (1985)
> From city: 1 mile N of POCAHONTAS, MS (10 miles N of Jackson MS)
>
> Airport Operations
>
>Airport use: Private use. Permission required prior to landing
>Activation date: 11/1988
>Sectional chart: MEMPHIS
><http://www.airnav.com/ad/click/taHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdnNob3.uY29tL3NlY3Rpb25hbGNoYXJ0cy5odG1sP3Jl+LZj05MyBhdnNob3..>
>
>
>Control tower: no
>ARTCC: MEMPHIS CENTER
>FSS: GREENWOOD FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF]
>Attendance: UNATNDD
>Wind indicator: yes
>Segmented circle: no
>Lights: RDO REQ
>Beacon: unknown
>
>
> Airport Communications
>
>UNICOM: 122.75
>WX ASOS at HKS (10 nm S): 120.625 (601-354-4037)
>WX ASOS at JAN (16 nm SE): PHONE 601-932-2822
>
>
> Nearby radio navigation aids
>
>VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var
>JAN
><http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/navaid-info?id=JAN&type=VORTAC&name=JACKSON>r258/6.4
>
>
> JACKSON VORTAC
> 112.60
> 05E
>
> Runway Information
>
>
> Runway 15/33
>
>Dimensions: 3540 x 80 ft. / 1079 x 24 m
>Surface: turf
>
> RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33
>Traffic pattern: left
> left
>Obstructions: 70 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway
> none
>
>If you need driving directions or more info, feel free to email me at
>cengland(at)netdoor.com
>or call at 601-879-9596.
>
>Charlie
>
>
Dave Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? |
The only way I have seen them done in the past was to attached them to the
engine mount tubing with Adel clamps and run the leads to the plugs just
like the mag line would run. Sorry, no pictures of them.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a
dual Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of
pics for the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm
thinking of hanging the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them
close to the exhaust and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box
around the sump to get to the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the
coils behind the acc. case?? Any input/advice on how others have done this
would be appreciated...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand
that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to
figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the
PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground).
Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the
airframe as suggested?
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker and OVP |
The function of most circuit breakers is to open when there is too much
current in a circuit. In a general sense, a circuit interrupter could open
a circuit whenever any bad condition occurs---let's say the circuit has too
much voltage across it, or if an earthquake or flood occurs--whatever.
But the alternator field circuit breaker cannot only respond to too high a
voltage, since the standard hazardous occurrences could easily cause an
overcurrent too. So the alternator field circuit breaker still needs an
overcurrent interupter as well as an overvoltage interrupter.
So (I'm getting to a point here), The OVP serves the function of detecting
the overvoltage and forcing the current operated circuit breaker to open.
Many vendors sell crowbar-type OVP's. I offer several non-crowbar types too
(but curiously have never sold one).
So (I'm still getting to a point here), I envision the standard aircraft
alternator field circuit breaker should be only the current operated device
with a healthy 18V TVS from its output to ground.
No OVP module.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
>
>
>
>Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says
>you have to have two locks on your airplane?
Don't think there were any "rules" before 9/11 when
lots of folks with too much time on their hands decided
to sit down and make some.
I know of perhaps a dozen airplanes sitting on various
fields around Wichita that I could fly away with without
having to get past any form of "security". 95% of
the rest of the fleet, I could fly away with after having
done very little damage to the airplane in spite of a
multiplicity of "locked" doors AND ignition switches . . .
My dad is a locksmith. You ought to see how quickly
he can get "locked" things open and damage nothing. He's
told me more than once that, "locks only keep honest
people honest. If somebody wants your stuff, the lock
is merely an inconvenience." In the case of airplanes,
locks only keep the stupid from hurting themselves or
others at substantial inconvenience and expense to owners
and responsible users.
If one wants and/or is required to HAVE some form of
real security, I've oft suggested the hardened steel
chain with a soft cover wrapped figure-8 around the prop
blades and closed with a REALLY good lock. This puts
the "security" right out front where anyone
trying to work around it is most likely to be observed.
Given that all other airplanes are so much easier
to steal, your airplane will be very low on an already
miniscule list of potential victims.
A very popular worry for the 15+ years I've been
working in OBAM aviation is the possible outcome from
ignorant and/or random switch-flippers who just might
have occasion to gain access to the cockpit. If this
is at a show, the 100% safe technique (required by
most shows) is to disconnect one lead of the battery
while the airplane is parked and accessible to anyone
other than authorized pilots and passengers. When
anyone gets into my airplane, the first sign of
undisciplined behavior will get him one warning. There's
no second warning, only an immediate invitation
out of the airplane. Never had to do it after
over a hundred flights for various kinds of
rides . . . but won't hesitate carry out the action
as needed.
I recall standing just outside one of those nutrition
supplement super-stores in a mall and noting
perhaps 2,000 different bottles and cans of "stuff"
on the shelves . . . all offered to support some
normal bodily function or to repair some malfunction.
I thought it would be interesting to walk in and ask
for a quote on "one-of-everything."
Gee, if all these things are so useful, it seems
the best thing I could do is take them all. After
all, not a single one has a hazard warning label
on it and virtually every one has virtues supported
paragraphs of not full books of words. None-the-less,
the sales-person would no doubt recommend that I
reduce my intended purchase the few products most
helpful to me.
"Hmmmm . . . I think I'm feeling fine . . . Oh,
no, my knees are aching a bit". I don't tell him
that I've just walked four loops around the mall
at 75% power.
"Aha! Over here we have stuff for aching joints."
"Great, which one do I need?"
"Uh, well, there are several dozen . . . perhaps
one of these books would be helpful."
"Can't you can't tell me which is the most effective
product?"
"Uh, no, all the books recommend different products . . .
but as you can see here, we stock them all! Just read
through all of these books under 'joint pain' and
I'm certain we'll have the product recommend by the
author you find the most persuasive."
As you pour over the stock of suggested preventives
and cures for any technology, see if the "problem"
really exists and that both problem and solution
are reduced to well understood simple-ideas. Just
because there are a lot of words written about any
of them doesn't mean the writer has the foggiest
notion of what they're writing about. No need to
study anything if you have a hyperactive imagination.
Shucks. You wouldn't belive what I saw happen on TV
just last week!
No doubt there are dozens if not hundreds of OBAM
(and certified) machines fitted with extra key locks,
hidden switches, etc. It's a further certainty
that folks with the power to make rules have assuaged their
own ignorant concerns with mandates for any number of
additional "safeguards". If these features make
the owner feel better, so be it. My only heartburn
with questions and discussions on this topic is that
I am unable to offer much thoughtful advise for folks
who find comfort in adding them to their airplanes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio wiring |
>
>
>Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand
>that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to
>figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the
>PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground).
>Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the
>airframe as suggested?
Sheet 2.1 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
shows the "ideal" PTT wiring . . . but should you choose to ground a stick
PTT button somewhere else AND have it share grounds with other stick
functions, there is little potential for problems. PTT currents are
very low and the circuit is not generally vulnerable as an interference
gateway to the radio.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational |
Airport!!
>
>Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems.
. . . maybe nothing. But it probably has a lot to do with
the sharing of simple-ideas on other aspects of aircraft
operation and construction . . . I go if I had the time.
> I hope
>every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
>here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already.
Get a copy of MailWasher from http://www.mailwasher.net/
They have a "pro" version you pay for but the free one is
very effective. Given that my e-mail address is published
in over 700 places on the 'net, I get several hundred trash
items a day too. I don't spend two minutes a day going over
the MailWasher listing of downloaded mail to pick out new
items not already on my "friends" list.
This is a great piece of software.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Karnes" <jpkarnes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
> Okay, then it's a fault of some kind downstream of the breaker
> that's tripping. Wire rubbed to ground, bad regulator, . . .
> something along that line. You're getting close.
>
> Bob . . .
FOUND IT!!
During construction, I installed the fuse block over a bolt and it
contacted the bus bar. It shorted and melted a bit and I terminated power.
Removed bolt, reinstalled fuse block, etc. - thought everything was fine.
I took the fuse block off today and checked it. An area of melted plastic
in the back with a possible path to ground was apparent. I left the fuse
block off the firewall and started the engine. No circuit breaker
tripping!! Ordered replacement fuse block from B&C today. Thanks Bob et
al. for your help.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
James Redmon,
Which Skytec starter are you using? The PM Skytec requires inrush current
of 285 amps or more. Their newer inline starter (not PM) requires only
about 185 amps.
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Kevin,
I'm thinking this would be called "Firewall Hot" or "Hot" or something like
that...., not necessarily "!!FIRE!!". My response to this alarm would be to
land and look for an exhaust leak, or evidence of a fire. I'm really
thinking more of an advance warning of an impending problem, as opposed to
waiting for serious smoke or flames to appear.
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
Parts came in early so I hooked up the two batteries in parallel this
evening. Zzzzing! Engine spins like crazy with a 10.3v bus voltage while
cranking. Tried cranking several successive times (more than 6 times, 10-15
blades each)...no appreciable degradation of cranking power or voltage. I
think this will work just fine. Now, with the two 17ah bats in parallel, I
have 34ah of energy on tap - quite a comfortable margin, even for a all
electric airplane.
Question: With the two batteries in parallel, do I have any special charging
concerns - either on the charger, or alternator?
Thanks all, and especially Bob, for all the help.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> > > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
> > > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
> > > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
> > > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
> > > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
> > > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
> >
> >I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for
> >your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp),
> >w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version.
> >
> >Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12,
> >canard with battery in the back:
> >
> >Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex
cable -
> >master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall -
> >30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to
engine
> >mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex
> >strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded
under
> >engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with
the
> >exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps
> >between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot
> >during multiple starts.
> >
> > From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does
> >anywhere on the engine case.
> >
> >Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll
> >report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to
> >accommodate a single 28ah battery.
>
> It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter
> performs in this application. Everything you've described
> suggests that the starter is the questionable variable.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
Gentlemen,
I've e-mailed the Honeywell techies and Aircraft Engravers with the
following questions, but I've not heard back from them. Then I thought, why
not ask the real experts! SO! How about this:
I need to know before ordering if the form factor of the switch operator
(the part you touch when operating the switch) is the same for the TP Series
and the AML34 Series rocker switches. I've found a company (Aircraft
Engravers) that will supply engraved operators for the AML34 Series. If you
go to the Aircraft Engravers website, you can see they offer Honeywell Style
One and Honeywell Style Two. Which one fits the TP Series? Aircraft
Engravers would engrave other styles, but I would have to supply the
operators. I don't even know if the operator is removable from the TP
Series as it is from the AML34 Series. Is the operator removable from the
TP Series? If so, I could buy the switches, remove the operators, and send
them to Aircraft Engravers. However, it would be mush simpler to just order
the engraved operators all at once for both the AML34 and the TP Series
switches.
Regards,
Troy Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
> From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as
> does anywhere on the engine case.
That would mean a loss of .3 volts per amp?
The measured resistance cannot be in series with battery and motor or it
would not turn at all.
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
>
>Parts came in early so I hooked up the two batteries in parallel this
>evening. Zzzzing! Engine spins like crazy with a 10.3v bus voltage while
>cranking. Tried cranking several successive times (more than 6 times, 10-15
>blades each)...no appreciable degradation of cranking power or voltage. I
>think this will work just fine. Now, with the two 17ah bats in parallel, I
>have 34ah of energy on tap - quite a comfortable margin, even for a all
>electric airplane.
>
>Question: With the two batteries in parallel, do I have any special charging
>concerns - either on the charger, or alternator?
>
>Thanks all, and especially Bob, for all the help.
Nope. There's a lot of myth circulating around about paralleled
batteries. It's TRUE that unequal batteries will both accept
and deliver energies at what ever they're able to do as individual
batteries. Neither battery has any way to sense/react to the presence
of other batteries. You could have a dozen batteries in parallel
and no single battery will behave any differently than if it
were the only battery on line. The only concerns about "balance"
between the two batteries is when total cranking current required
is greater than the ability of one battery as illustrated in the case
you've cited. Here it is NECESSARY to have two batteries of relatively
strong capabilities. Let's say one of the two batteries was two years
old and could barely get the engine started and you parallel it with
a new one. We would EXPECT the new one to take on most of the
burden for getting the engine started. In terms of service life for
THAT battery, we expect it to degrade faster than it would
when teamed with a second new battery. However, in terms of charging
or in terms of total energy stored, both batteries will accept and
deliver the total of its individual ability irrespective of how many
batteries share the energy management responsibilities.
If you have occasion to replace your starter, it would
be interesting to see if a B&C starter would get the engine
going on one battery. Tell you what, if you'll buy a B&C
starter and put it on your airplane and don't find it
to be a good value replacement for the existing starter,
I'll buy it back from you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall penetration questions |
1. When installing the Nuckolls/B&C dual ground block through the firewall, is
it necessary (or desirable) to take steps to make the penetration more fireproof?
Stainless plates on each side? Firestop putty around the brass bolt?
2. What about throttle/mixture/prop cables? These are pretty small holes with
a metal fitting on the engine side, but Im just wondering if anything needs to
be done to seal them up.
Thanks,
Dan OBrien
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Single ignition hooked up to two batteries |
Hi,
I'm looking for a way to reliably hook up a single electronic
control module (engine ignition/computer) to two batteries.
I've done a quick sketch and written some text, and I would
love to get any feedback on this proposed method of doing
this. Please be gentle, I'm quite a novice at this stuff.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
| Subject: | Voltmeter Scaling Module |
This message is primarily to Mr. Bob Nuckolls, but others may wish to
respond as well. At one time back in 2001, the AeroElectric Connection
catalog offered a combination Voltmeter/Loadmeter with a Voltmeter Scaling
Module ("VSM"), which I purchased (Catalog item VLM-14) for use in my
experimental Mustang II kitplane with a Mazda 13B Rotary engine, which comes
with an 80-amp alternator. The catalog offered (but I did not then
purchase) a separate additional VSM if needed for a second alternator. I
now am installing a second alternator (35-amp permanent magnet alternator
-not a B&C product), but cannot find a source for the VSM anymore. It seems
that neither the AeroElectric Connection nor B&C Specialty carries the
product.
I have a few questions.
1. From the installation instructions that came with the VLM-14, it appears
that use of a double-pole, double-throw switch and a properly sized shunt
for each alternator allows me to toggle the input to the Loadmeter back and
forth between two alternators. If this is true, why do I need a second VSM?
2. If I do need a second VSM, where can I get one?
3. The catalog literature says "If your airplane is fitted with a permanent
magnet alternator, order the 'PM' modification to delete the field voltage
test and auto-switching features." Can you please explain why the use of a
permanent magnet alternator requires that these two features be deleted? If
I have two alternators, one PM and one regular, what is the proper setup?
What would happen if I tried to use my VLM-14 with the PM alternator?
Voltmeter Scaling Module
This message is primarily to Mr. Bob Nuckolls, but others may wish to respond as
well. At one time back in 2001, the AeroElectric Connection catalog offered
a combination Voltmeter/Loadmeter with a Voltmeter Scaling Module (VSM), which
I purchased (Catalog item VLM-14) for use in my experimental Mustang II kitplane
with a Mazda 13B Rotary engine, which comes with an 80-amp alternator. The
catalog offered (but I did not then purchase) a separate additional VSM if needed
for a second alternator. I now am installing a second alternator (35-amp
permanent magnet alternator -not a BC product), but cannot find a source for the
VSM anymore. It seems that neither the AeroElectric Connection nor BC Specialty
carries the product.
I have a few questions.
1. From the installation instructions that came with the VLM-14, it appears that
use of a double-pole, double-throw switch and a properly sized shunt for each
alternator allows me to toggle the input to the Loadmeter back and forth between
two alternators. If this is true, why do I need a second VSM?
2. If I do need a second VSM, where can I get one?
3. The catalog literature says If your airplane is fitted with a permanent magnet
alternator, order the 'PM' modification to delete the field voltage test and
auto-switching features. Can you please explain why the use of a permanent magnet
alternator requires that these two features be deleted? If I have two alternators,
one PM and one regular, what is the proper setup? What would happen
if I tried to use my VLM-14 with the PM alternator?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wallace Enga <wenga(at)svtv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single ignition hooked up to two |
batteries
Mickey,
I would suggest that you put separate fuses on each feed line between it's Bus
and diode. Use either separate control switches in each feed line or a high
quality
double pole switch if you want single switch control.
For the isolation diodes, use something similar to IR 100BGQ030 Power Schottky
for as low as possible forward voltage drop.
Use at least 16 AWG wire and 10 Amp fuses.
This circuit powers not only the ECM computer, but also the fuel injectors,
coil,
ignition, ect. Definitely don't want any nuisance trips to OPEN this circuit.
The current draw on the circuit will vary with engine power setting ---
check with Jan Eggenfellner for the exact numbers.
Wally Enga
RV7
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking for a way to reliably hook up a single electronic
>control module (engine ignition/computer) to two batteries.
>I've done a quick sketch and written some text, and I would
>love to get any feedback on this proposed method of doing
>this. Please be gentle, I'm quite a novice at this stuff.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040406145425120
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration questions |
>
>1. When installing the Nuckolls/B&C dual ground block through the
>firewall, is it necessary (or desirable) to take steps to make the
>penetration more fireproof? Stainless plates on each side? Firestop
>putty around the brass bolt?
No.
>2. What about throttle/mixture/prop cables? These are pretty small holes
>with a metal fitting on the engine side, but Im just wondering if anything
>needs to be done to seal them up.
There are a number of "eyeball" fittings that help with
this effort. One example can be seen in photos at:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030722.html
does anyone on the list have a source to recommend for
these fittings?
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration questions |
I've been going through this very issue in the past few weeks. I ordered
those eyeball fitting, and they're a lovely made product, but they expect
an RV-like firewall - thin! My 3/8 firewall wouldn't work with them and I
had to return them. I'm still trying to find a solution, or at least a
workaround.
Neil
> >2. What about throttle/mixture/prop cables? These are pretty small holes
> >with a metal fitting on the engine side, but Im just wondering if anything
> >needs to be done to seal them up.
>
> There are a number of "eyeball" fittings that help with
> this effort. One example can be seen in photos at:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20030722.html
>
> does anyone on the list have a source to recommend for
> these fittings?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Girard <fly.ez(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration questions |
Neil et al, You might try Tony Bingelis' book, "Bingelis on Engines",
chapter 3, Firewall Preparation, in which he showed how to make nice
stainless steel grommet covers with a vice, socket and a plywood form.
The same approach should work fine for almost any firewall penetration
with a little eye ball engineering.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
Jan de Jong wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as
>>does anywhere on the engine case.
>>
>>
>
>That would mean a loss of .3 volts per amp?
>The measured resistance cannot be in series with battery and motor or it
>would not turn at all.
>
>Jan de Jong
>
I think it should be mentioned that measuring resistance of less than a
few ohms is not something that is easy to do reliably. Resistance at the
contact point of the probe itself can cause significant errors if you
aren't very careful & 'deliberate' with the act of probing.
It's a lot easier if you're using consumer grade meters to just measure
voltage before & after every joint, with a good solid connection to the
ground terminal on the battery itself. Attach the probe at the desired
test point, then apply voltage to the circuit (including the load) &
record the voltage at that point. Move on to the next point & repeat as
needed, including the ground side of the load itself & any joints in the
ground return path. A noticeable drop across any area except the load
itself points to wiring/connection problems. If you see noticeable
voltage on the ground side of the load, again, you have
wiring/connection problems.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jimk36(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Fittings |
Bob et al ---
Avery Tools carries a lot of good stuff for our market. They have swivel eyeball fittings to handle 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" cables through the firewall. They're on the web at www.averytools.com
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltmeter Scaling Module |
>
>This message is primarily to Mr. Bob Nuckolls, but others may wish to
>respond as well. At one time back in 2001, the AeroElectric Connection
>catalog offered a combination Voltmeter/Loadmeter with a Voltmeter Scaling
>Module ("VSM"), which I purchased (Catalog item VLM-14) for use in my
>experimental Mustang II kitplane with a Mazda 13B Rotary engine, which comes
>with an 80-amp alternator. The catalog offered (but I did not then
>purchase) a separate additional VSM if needed for a second alternator. I
>now am installing a second alternator (35-amp permanent magnet alternator
>-not a B&C product), but cannot find a source for the VSM anymore. It seems
>that neither the AeroElectric Connection nor B&C Specialty carries the
>product.
Correct. Westach was unable to produce instruments of the necessary
quality to support the project.
>I have a few questions.
>
>1. From the installation instructions that came with the VLM-14, it appears
>that use of a double-pole, double-throw switch and a properly sized shunt
>for each alternator allows me to toggle the input to the Loadmeter back and
>forth between two alternators. If this is true, why do I need a second VSM?
You don't. The VLM-14 offered a multiplicity of functions. (1) expanded
scale voltmeter with autoswitching between main bus and e-bus depending
on whether or not the main bus was hot (2) active notification of low
voltage, (3) optional press-to-test for monitoring field voltage of
a wound field alternator for diagnostic investigations and (4) zero
to 100 percent loadmeter that could be switched to multiple shunts;
in most cases a maximum of two shunts - one in each of two alternator
b-leads.
The toggle switch is used for feature (4) only. Autoswitching of
the feature (1) was built into the product.
>2. If I do need a second VSM, where can I get one?
If you have one, that's all you need.
>3. The catalog literature says "If your airplane is fitted with a permanent
>magnet alternator, order the 'PM' modification to delete the field voltage
>test and auto-switching features." Can you please explain why the use of a
>permanent magnet alternator requires that these two features be deleted? If
>I have two alternators, one PM and one regular, what is the proper setup?
>what would happen if I tried to use my VLM-14 with the PM alternator?
Not sure what you mean by "regular" alternator. Does it have an external
regulator? If so, then you will want to install the components
color coded in the installation manual as magenta. If it has
an internal regulator, then the magenta wiring and magenta
instructions are not applicable to your alternator.
The installation instructions:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9021/9021704F.pdf
shows addition of a second loadmeter shunt in the b-lead of a second
alternator. In this case, your second alternator is a PM device
and the two loadmeter shunts would be wired like those shown in
Figure Z-13 and switched as shown on page 9 of the instructions.
bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rino Lacombe" <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
...........Snip..............
> >Question: With the two batteries in parallel, do I have any special
charging
> >concerns - either on the charger, or alternator?
> >
> >Thanks all, and especially Bob, for all the help.
>
..........Snip...........
> > > If you have occasion to replace your starter, it would
> be interesting to see if a B&C starter would get the engine
> going on one battery. Tell you what, if you'll buy a B&C
> starter and put it on your airplane and don't find it
> to be a good value replacement for the existing starter,
> I'll buy it back from you.
>
> Bob . . .
I believe that Bob is right on this one.
One good 17ah battery should start the engine properly -- it does on mine,
every time!
Rino
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Fittings |
I saw some thermoplastic rubber, firewall grommets at www.summitracing.com
The item number is MOR-39050. You get several sizes for just 10 bucks. I
figure these are a good start, then just cover with the one or two piece
covers that are available at Spruce and various other places.
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimk36(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Fittings
>
> Bob et al ---
>
> Avery Tools carries a lot of good stuff for our market. They have swivel
eyeball fittings to handle 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" cables through the firewall.
They're on the web at www.averytools.com
>
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Fittings |
>
>Bob et al ---
>
>Avery Tools carries a lot of good stuff for our market. They have swivel
>eyeball fittings to handle 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" cables through the
>firewall. They're on the web at www.averytools.com
Can you give us a link to the parts? I poked around on
their website and couldn't find the fittings.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
In a message dated 4/5/2004 5:36:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lhelming(at)sigecom.net writes:
> You could try using safety wire for holding d-subs together rather than the
> tiny screws. That way it cannot vibrate it self loose.
Larry,
Thanks, but already thought of that -- plan to use the little screws, and
safety wire for its intended purpose, as a backup. With the round units, they
do
not require either of those efforts.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
Interested readers, this is a copy of an offline request, FWIW:
Just couldn't stand not trying it out. The pins/sockets (machined type as
sold by B&C) go into the connector just like the D-sub connectors, and the
pins/sockets can be extracted just like the D-subs. As these pins are good for
24-20
ga. wire just like the D-subs.
The connector is an AMP 205840-3 female 28 pin version with a 205839-3 male
28 socket connector. In the catalog I saw, they have versions for 3, 8, 28 and
63 pins, or about those numbers, in both female pin/male socket or female
socket/male pin versions. For the 28 pin version, the hole size is 1-1/16" with
a flange for securing with 4 small screws (they also make a corresponding
unflanged type for use without bulkhead mounting).
Regards, Doug
> just wondering, did you buy the special pin's from AMP or use the one from
> the d-subs?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Out of town for a few days . . . |
Dee and I are headed for San Antonio for a few days to attend
the Southwest Psychological Association convention. Be back
in the saddle on Sunday . . .
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
>
>
>Jan de Jong wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as
> >>does anywhere on the engine case.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >That would mean a loss of .3 volts per amp?
> >The measured resistance cannot be in series with battery and motor or it
> >would not turn at all.
> >
> >Jan de Jong
> >
>I think it should be mentioned that measuring resistance of less than a
>few ohms is not something that is easy to do reliably. Resistance at the
>contact point of the probe itself can cause significant errors if you
>aren't very careful & 'deliberate' with the act of probing.
It's easier to do with the right equipment. See low resistance measurement
techniques discussed in the chapter on grounding. Also, here's an article
I did for another program describing a low-ohms adapter for digital
multimeters. It has a resolution of 1 milliohm when used with the millivolt
scale of most multimeters.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter.pdf
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall penetration questions |
Bob, et. al., these fittings are available from Bob Avery at Avery Tools.
They are in the $25-$30 each.
I just purchased a few and recommend them and him. Bob will have them at
Sun-N-Fun with a "show special" price.
This type requires the drilling/punching of a hole of about 1.1" as I
recall. (Don't have the paperwork handy) and they eyeballs come with holes
of 3-4 different sizes. The *aluminum* eyeballs can be drilled out to a
larger size to accomodate bigger cables of wires.
He **ALSO** has the type that starts with the ~1" hole and two small holes
for screws that go into a backing plate. The "front" side is then bolted on
using four screw that also screw into the backing plate (2 screw hold the
backing plate to the firewall and 4 screws attach the "engine side" plate
that holds the "eyeball" in. This type comes with steel plate and aluminum
balls or steel plate and steel balls. Due to the geometry of the steel
"balls", they cannot be enlarged.
I looked for pictures on Bob's website but could not find any. These items
are though in his latest catalog (near the back).
James
[SNIP]
>
> >2. What about throttle/mixture/prop cables? These are pretty
> small holes
> >with a metal fitting on the engine side, but Im just wondering
> if anything
> >needs to be done to seal them up.
>
> There are a number of "eyeball" fittings that help with
> this effort. One example can be seen in photos at:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20030722.html
>
> does anyone on the list have a source to recommend for
> these fittings?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
>
>
> > From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as
> > does anywhere on the engine case.
>
>That would mean a loss of .3 volts per amp?
>The measured resistance cannot be in series with battery and motor or it
>would not turn at all.
Good eye! Actually, he was probably making measurements with a
garden variety multimeter which probably has a leadwire resistance
on the order of .2 ohms. I've just published an article on low
resistance measurements at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter.pdf
Used this fixture just today to measure residual resistance
in a piece of equipment that faulted and caught fire. The
power input leads showed about 200 milliohms to ground. With
28v applied, this produces a current flow on the order of
140 amps for a power dissipation of over 4000 watts in
about 1 cubic centimeter of volume. Needless to say, it got
pretty hot!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Fittings |
>>Avery Tools carries a lot of good stuff for our market. They have swivel
>>eyeball fittings to handle 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" cables through the
>>firewall. They're on the web at www.averytools.com
>
> Can you give us a link to the parts? I poked around on
> their website and couldn't find the fittings.
Hi,
This product does not seem to be in their web
catalog, but I've got it in the paper version.
I've put a scan on my web site if anyone is
interested.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040407083459141
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration questions |
The low cost way to cover cable FW penetrations is using Stainless Steel FW
shields from AirCraft Spruce and their p/n 61-375. These can be sealed up
with grommet and fireproof putty nicely. Cost is about $7 each +S&H.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/nsearch.php?s=firewall+shield
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring w/Nuckoll's Knowledge
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Eyeball passthrough |
Cleveland Tool also has eyeball firewall passthroughs. Part # FPT1 and FPT1S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Eyeball passthrough |
By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch hole
required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball passthrough |
unibit works great.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough
>
> By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch hole
> required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
> Ted
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball passthrough |
A Greenlee chassis punch would work great on SS. They're available for
about $10, and up, from ebay.
Mark S.
>
>unibit works great.
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap(at)rochester.rr.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough
>
>
>
> >
> > By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch hole
> > required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
> > Ted
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jimk36(at)comcast.net> |
Bob--
I could not find them on Avery's web site either. Called them [ 800-652-8379] and
they say they are aware of problems with the site and have hired a new guy
to fix it. The firewall eyeballs are in their printed cataloge on page 79.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cameron Kurth <n916kilo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball passthrough with Greenlee punch |
I used a Greenlee punch on my SS firewall. Yolu really have to want out for tearing
of the stainless. Two holes came out OK the third took quite a bit of dressing
to make the hole look OK, and I caught it right when it started to tear.
Cam
Mark Steitle wrote:
A Greenlee chassis punch would work great on SS. They're available for
about $10, and up, from ebay.
Mark S.
>
>unibit works great.
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ted Hultzapple"
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough
>
>
> >
> > By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch hole
> > required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
> > Ted
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball passthrough with Greenlee punch |
What I've found that worked is to drill the hole up to 1" with a Unibit. Then,
screw the backside fitting into place and remove the final 1/8" with a file and
dremel attachment. That stainless is tough stuff and will ruin your tools
in no time. I went mostly with abrasive tools rather than cutting tools.
Randy
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
> I used a Greenlee punch on my SS firewall. Yolu really have to want out for
> tearing of the stainless. Two holes came out OK the third took quite a bit of
> dressing to make the hole look OK, and I caught it right when it started to
> tear.
>
> Cam
>
> Mark Steitle wrote:
>
> A Greenlee chassis punch would work great on SS. They're available for
> about $10, and up, from ebay.
> Mark S.
>
> >
> >unibit works great.
> >Jim
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ted Hultzapple"
> >To:
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch hole
> > > required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
> > > Ted
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyeball passthrough with Greenlee punch |
Alternative methode was doing the drawing in Intellicad (after trying out
all with a plastic (plexi) firewall) and got in a shop for lasercutting,
cost me around 60$ including the side parts for my GlaStar, could even get
the shield for closing the nosegear strut breaktrough (1 shield for
nosegear, a closing out shield for taildragger). Did do the same with the
Panel..
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough with Greenlee punch
>
> What I've found that worked is to drill the hole up to 1" with a Unibit.
Then, screw the backside fitting into place and remove the final 1/8" with a
file and dremel attachment. That stainless is tough stuff and will ruin
your tools in no time. I went mostly with abrasive tools rather than
cutting tools.
>
> Randy
> http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
> >
> > I used a Greenlee punch on my SS firewall. Yolu really have to want out
for
> > tearing of the stainless. Two holes came out OK the third took quite a
bit of
> > dressing to make the hole look OK, and I caught it right when it started
to
> > tear.
> >
> > Cam
> >
> > Mark Steitle wrote:
> >
> > A Greenlee chassis punch would work great on SS. They're available for
> > about $10, and up, from ebay.
> > Mark S.
> >
> > >
> > >unibit works great.
> > >Jim
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Ted Hultzapple"
> > >To:
> > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Eyeball passthrough
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > By the way, what is the best way to punch the required 1 1/8 inch
hole
> > > > required for these eyeballs in the RV stainless firewall?
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussmann fuseblocks |
John,
Everyone that responded to the survey with a preference preferred the
20/08. I went ahead and got them on order today and was quoted only a 6
week leadtime rather than the 10 weeks previously quoted. I'll let you
know when I get them in.
Dave
www.mihdirect.biz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
Just thought I'd mention DEKA powersport AGM batteries as another
possible battery supply.
The ETX9 at 6.3 lbs for 8 AH (10 hr. rate) and 110 CCA is an interesting
size for a second battery. My local farm supply has all the larger sizes
on the shelf and Deka seems to have a number of retail/wholesale outlets
as well.
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/small_engine_power.html
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce(at)sysmatrix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Fittings |
Page 75 of the 2004 catalog
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall Fittings
>
>
> >>Avery Tools carries a lot of good stuff for our market. They have swivel
> >>eyeball fittings to handle 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" cables through the
> >>firewall. They're on the web at www.averytools.com
> >
> > Can you give us a link to the parts? I poked around on
> > their website and couldn't find the fittings.
>
> Hi,
>
> This product does not seem to be in their web
> catalog, but I've got it in the paper version.
>
> I've put a scan on my web site if anyone is
> interested.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040407083459141
>
> Mickey
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: small batteries |
>Just thought I'd mention DEKA powersport AGM batteries as another
>possible battery supply.
>
>The ETX9 at 6.3 lbs for 8 AH (10 hr. rate) and 110 CCA is an interesting
>size for a second battery. My local farm supply has all the larger sizes
>on the shelf and Deka seems to have a number of retail/wholesale outlets
>as well.
Interesting products, but totally annoying website. Imagine
having to fill out a form before you browsed in the neighborhood
store.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration questions |
| From: | Larry Landucci <lllanducci(at)tds.net> |
The most economical solution is to fabricate your own firewall shields
from scrap stainless steel. It is easy to do and is fully described in
"Firewall Forward" by Tony Bingelis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Bob - I dont know if it is just me but my copy of Adobe insists the file is
damaged and cant open it....................... Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
for an exemplar wiring diagram for comm transceiver. Also,
if you DO decide to install the 760VHF, I still have a few
wire harnesses for that radio.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Julia <wings97302(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss?? |
would the ELECTRIC attitude indicator go on the e-buss or main?
if on the e-buss and I don't have a switch for it - then if in VFR with failed
alternator - I would not need it yet it would be running and so draining the battery?
How about the electric booster pump - main buss or e-buss??
should the comm/gps/transponder all go on the e-buss- they all have indipendend
on/off switches on them - so if not needed, I could shut them off.
Would it also be a good idea not to put the attitude indicator and turn coordinator
on the same fuse?? - I would think one would want both on the e-buss??
I'd like NOT to have another switch - how can I avoid one for the attitude indicator.
I'm of the understanding that I ask myself "is it essential for the completion
of the flight" if so I put it on the e-buss. Well then I would think instrument
lights, radios, gps,electric booster pump, attitude indicator, would all go
on the e-buss - am I right here??
I'm having troubles located B&C Electrical - the company Bob used to own - what's
their website
thanks
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
Steve,
I just tried the link and the file opened just fine on my machine, you might
want to try re-installing your program.
Just a suggestion
Jeff.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
March 28, 2004 - April 08, 2004
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-db