AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-dd
April 22, 2004 - May 03, 2004
>the controls? What about a "take control" switch to determine which set of
>trim controls works....., is this necessary?
>
>Regards,
>Troy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | 28 volt radios... |
Item number: 2473438116
Dale, another Kx - 155 but without glideslope.......great price. So far.
Sid
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Switches |
Sorry folks,
I just noticed a typo in my first post. The IM251-78 switch is supposed to be
priced at $23.98
Charlie Kuss
>
>Troy,
> You can eliminate the need for relays for electric pitch and roll servos by purchasing
the new Ray Allen G307 (or G305) grips. The Honeywell Microswitch brand
hat switch on these units is rated for 15 amps. See
>
>http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgripsG3.html
>
> I'm building a tandem (RV-8A) aircraft, so panel switches are out of the question
for me. I plan to install two toggle switches to control who has control
of the electric trim (4 pole double throw ON-OFF-ON) and flaps, which are also
stick grip controlled (3 pole double throw ON-OFF-ON) This will allow these
functions to be shunted to either the pilot (ON) no one (OFF) or co-pilot (ON).
I want the OFF position to deal with any potential "runaway" condition.
> Yesterday, I placed several orders for electrical parts. I asked Waytek Electronics
(a Carling Technologies distributor) for pricing on these 2 switches. Carling
part numbers are:
>
>HM251-78 $17.71 each 3 pole double throw with 1/4" female
fast on connectors and chrome bat handle
>IM251-78 $$2398 each 4 pole double throw with 1/4" female
fast on connectors and chrome bat handle
>
> The problem is that there is a minimum of 11 for each item to place a special
order for these items. Does anyone on the list know of a Carling distributor
who stocks these? Failing that, anyone want to go in on a group purchase to get
these? I can supply a copy of Waytek's quote "off list" to anyone interested.
>
>Charlie Kuss
>RV-8A wiring
>Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>
>>
>>Gentlemen,
>>
>>
>>I plan to have electric trim controls on the stick(s). These will need
>>relays, since the switches are small and the currents large. I also plan to
>>install either a pullable breaker or switch as Electric Trim Interrupt. I'm
>>thinking it might also be good to have a direct (no relays) means of
>>controlling the trim motors. I'm thinking of installing a pair of
>>(ON)-none-(ON) rocker switches on the console. Is this commonly done? Or do
>>most of you choose either stick-mounted controls or console-mounted
>>controls, but not both? What about stick-mounted controls on the pilot's
>>side only and console mounted controls for when the passenger/pilot takes
>>the controls? What about a "take control" switch to determine which set of
>>trim controls works....., is this necessary?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Troy
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Switches |
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
> From: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net>
> I plan to have electric trim controls on the stick(s). These will need
> relays, since the switches are small and the currents large. I also plan to
> install either a pullable breaker or switch as Electric Trim Interrupt. I'm
> thinking it might also be good to have a direct (no relays) means of
> controlling the trim motors. I'm thinking of installing a pair of
> (ON)-none-(ON) rocker switches on the console. Is this commonly done?
I have this kind of rocker switch on mine but the currents are small. The
trim motor is a modified electric screwdriver that Alex Strong sells. Works
fine, though. Mine's in the armrest behind the throttles (Cozy III)
--Kent
>Or do
> most of you choose either stick-mounted controls or console-mounted
> controls, but not both? What about stick-mounted controls on the pilot's
> side only and console mounted controls for when the passenger/pilot takes
> the controls? What about a "take control" switch to determine which set of
> trim controls works....., is this necessary?
>
> Regards,
> Troy
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Switches |
Charlie,
Have you looked at the Infinity web site? JD has a good explanation on
transferring command of the stick switches via two switches. He also sells
the switches and relays needed. The locking lever switches were just 15
bucks.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electric Trim Switches
>
> Troy,
> You can eliminate the need for relays for electric pitch and roll servos
by purchasing the new Ray Allen G307 (or G305) grips. The Honeywell
Microswitch brand hat switch on these units is rated for 15 amps. See
>
> http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgripsG3.html
>
> I'm building a tandem (RV-8A) aircraft, so panel switches are out of the
question for me. I plan to install two toggle switches to control who has
control of the electric trim (4 pole double throw ON-OFF-ON) and flaps,
which are also stick grip controlled (3 pole double throw ON-OFF-ON) This
will allow these functions to be shunted to either the pilot (ON) no one
(OFF) or co-pilot (ON). I want the OFF position to deal with any potential
"runaway" condition.
> Yesterday, I placed several orders for electrical parts. I asked Waytek
Electronics (a Carling Technologies distributor) for pricing on these 2
switches. Carling part numbers are:
>
> HM251-78 $17.71 each 3 pole double throw with 1/4"
female fast on connectors and chrome bat handle
> IM251-78 $$2398 each 4 pole double throw with 1/4"
female fast on connectors and chrome bat handle
>
> The problem is that there is a minimum of 11 for each item to place a
special order for these items. Does anyone on the list know of a Carling
distributor who stocks these? Failing that, anyone want to go in on a group
purchase to get these? I can supply a copy of Waytek's quote "off list" to
anyone interested.
>
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8A wiring
> Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >
> >I plan to have electric trim controls on the stick(s). These will need
> >relays, since the switches are small and the currents large. I also plan
to
> >install either a pullable breaker or switch as Electric Trim Interrupt.
I'm
> >thinking it might also be good to have a direct (no relays) means of
> >controlling the trim motors. I'm thinking of installing a pair of
> >(ON)-none-(ON) rocker switches on the console. Is this commonly done? Or
do
> >most of you choose either stick-mounted controls or console-mounted
> >controls, but not both? What about stick-mounted controls on the pilot's
> >side only and console mounted controls for when the passenger/pilot takes
> >the controls? What about a "take control" switch to determine which set
of
> >trim controls works....., is this necessary?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Troy
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery failure modes? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Chad, at least one failure mode I've heard of in both cars and airplanes is the
physical failure of the battery post or bolt breaking off. Sounds like the best
way to mitigate this failure is to use a flexible battery lead that doesn't
stress the attach point, and to be very careful about torquing it right.
As for internal failures within the battery that render it weakened or inop, that
depends on what kind of battery you are talking about. Most people now are
using RG batteries, which eliminates many of the possible problems with other
battery types. Lots in the archives on RG batteries...I'm not an expert on them,
maybe Bob or someone else can enlighten us on what other failure modes, if
any, the RG can experience. Bottom line is if you change it out every other
year it reduces odds of failure to very slim.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
From: Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery failure modes?
What types of failures can occur to a battery in flight, assuming various
alternator conditions? Does anybody have a list of failure modes?
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Dale, just an FYI, I asked on the RV-List if anyone is having problems with auto
plugs fouling like you have experienced. So far a number of responses on and
off List indicate no problems at all like this, for either the Electroair or
LSE systems. Many responses indicated hundreds of hours on a set of auto plugs
and still going strong with no trouble. Several replies noted they were using
cheaper plugs than what Klaus supplies with the LSE and these were working
fine also. Remember these are all O-320's, O-360's, or IO-360's. I'm thinking
the issue you have experienced must be related to the O-235, unless there's
something else about the setup or operation of your engine that could be causing
it. At any rate it doesn't sound like an LSE vs. Electroair issue per se.
As a side note, I know a guy with an O-320 powered Long EZ who runs auto plugs
with magnetos. Never heard of anyone else doing this, but he claims they work
fine for him....
>With 319 hours experience with an LSE CDI system and also fouled motorcycle
>plugs (yes that's right - fouled plugs) every 50 to 75 hours. The magneto
>would run smoother then the E.I. system during this. After more research we
>find that the truth was not told by the LSE about the proper choice of
>plugs. I should have been using REM 37BY's (the spark plug that was
>developed specifically for my engine) just like I do for the magneto.
>
>Those who I've spoke with say they get 800 to 900 hours out of there
>aircraft spark plugs. Having used the triple ground arm plugs from
>NippenDenso plugs (LSE want $15 per plug) I can say they work a little
>better but they still would foul during a run-up after 40 25 hours and this
>was due to carbon deposits the 235L2C is known for -(my best guess anyway).
>Most interesting is they were all on top and the aircraft REM 37BY plugs and
>magneto fired all the bottom plugs and ran smooth. Best wishes to LSE
>however I have switched to Electro-Air's E.I. which recommends Aircraft
>plugs or the 386 plugs that fit into the standard aircraft cylinder head.
>
>You owe it to yourself to speak with Jeff Rose of Electro-Air if your
>airplane use's a starter. He recommends against hand propping for those
>with dual E.I.'s. His system already has the "longer duration spark" that
>LSE wants more $$$ for and use's a 60 tooth wheel to make timing adjustments
>every 12 verses the once every 360 (or 720) of the LSE system.
Just curious, other than starting, does the 60 tooth pickup make any real world
difference in operation? The longer duration spark is definitely an advantage
for lighting very lean mixtures, but at Lycoming rpms I can't imagine that sampling
the rate any more often than every crank rotation would have a measurable
effect on efficiency of the spark timing. I suppose during a rapid change
of power, i.e. shoving the throttle from idle to full power, a higher sampling
rate could be marginally better, but you aren't really worried about efficiency
in short duration bursts like that so if the LSE system works adequately for
quick power changes (which I've heard no complaints about) it would not seem
to be an advantage to sample more than necessary. But maybe I'm missing something...
>They both use manifold pressure & electronics to retard or advance the timing.
Do you know if Jeff is still using the same differential pressure sensor for MAP
and the same timing curves as tested by CAFE? The LSE has always used an absolute
pressure sensor as it was designed for aircraft use from the outset, whereas
I believe the Electroair system was an automotive system that used the psid
sensor for MAP. CAFE noted this as a problem in the testing they did. Differential
press sensor works fine on a car, but won't be optimum over the range
of altitudes an airplane experiences...the CAFE testing showed this to be true
in several scenarios where the spark advance was wrong and the mags actually
outperformed the E.I. in these instances. Too bad CAFE didn't test the LSE
system as well...Klaus claims he sent them a system but they never got around
to testing it. A real shame.
It would be cool if somebody would put both an LSE system and an Electroair system
on their airplane and fly different profiles, alternately turning one or the
other off to see the effect on airspeed, fuel flow, engine roughness, etc.
That would be the best real world test of any tangible differences between the
performance of the two designs....
>snip
>
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | SD-8 TEMPERATURE DATA |
RV-6 CRUISING AT 9300 FT DENSITY ALTITUDE, 2400 RPM
THE TEMPERATURE PROBE ATTACHED WITH ALUMINUM TAPE TO THE SD-8 REGULATOR
DATA RECORDING BEGAN AFTER 45 MINUTES OF FLIGHT
AT TIME :00 SD-8 ALTERNATOR SWITCHED ON AND MAIN ALTERNATOR SWITCHED OFF
TIME OAT - F REGULATOR - F
:00 43 86
:07 45 97
:12 45 100
:16 45 101
:19 45 101
:24 45 102
:28 45 101
:36 45 100
:43 45 99
LOAD ANALYSIS:
TYPICAL MAXIMUM
AMPS AMPS
ENG MONITOR 0.4 0.4
GPS 1.5 1.5
ALT ENCODER 0.2 0.3
TRANSPONDER 1.8 1.8
TURN COORDINATOR 0.4 1.0
INTERCOMM 0.2 0.2
EFIS 0.8 1.0
COMM RADIO 0.3 3.2
TOTAL 5.6 9.4
This data does not indicate a heat problem for this installation in which
the regulator is bolted directly to the firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
In a message dated 4/22/04 1:12:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
As a side note, I know a guy with an O-320 powered Long EZ who runs auto
plugs with magnetos. Never heard of anyone else doing this, but he claims they
work fine for him....
Good Evening Mark,
For What It Is Worth --- There are many 320 Lycomings that have
been flying for years using autogas and magnetos in certificated
airplanes. Auto gas approvals abound for that engine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
Note - Use of conventional cell phones while airborne is illegal.
jerb
>
>
>Richard said:
>
><No coax loss, no designing an antenna.
>
>My $0.02.
>
>Dick Tasker>>
>
>Richard,
>
>That's a great idea for the "emergency, HELP!!" version. But I'm hoping for
>a version that will let me receive calls. On camping trips I'm sometimes
>accompanied by an MD who needs to remain in contact. What about an
>amplifier to make up for the signal loss?
>
>-Troy
>tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
In a message dated 4/22/2004 6:59:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:
Note - Use of conventional cell phones while airborne is illegal.
jerb
Yes, airborne use of conventional cell phones was illegal back in the
eighties when I used to work for Motorola. It may still be, I don't know. The
theory is that as a cell phone moves around in a "cell" of transmitter/receiver
towers, the "system" tracks the phone's signal strength in order to hand the call
off to the next tower. If the phone were elevated by very much height, it
could raise so many towers that the system would become confused and not operate
at all. Potentially, this would tie up a lot of collective cell bandwidth
unnecessarily for no good purpose. This may be old information and the above
problems have been solved by other technology. I feel old...
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
What happens when I am standing on top of a 10,000 ft
mountain while skiing, and I can "see" dozens of GSM
antennas? Seems like it would be the same kind of
thing. I've often gotten calls while flying around
at 5-8000 ft. I hope I have not been breaking any laws! :-)
We use GSM here, so it may be different with a CDMA system.
Mickey
>Yes, airborne use of conventional cell phones was illegal back in the
>eighties when I used to work for Motorola. It may still be, I don't know. The
>theory is that as a cell phone moves around in a "cell" of transmitter/receiver
>towers, the "system" tracks the phone's signal strength in order to hand the call
>off to the next tower. If the phone were elevated by very much height, it
>could raise so many towers that the system would become confused and not operate
>at all. ...
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
> The Sky-Tec starter is a PM starter. As far as I understand, the
> B&C is not a PM starter. What is the biggest drawback to a PM
> starter? In otherwords, what is the advantage to the B&C starter design?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Keith Doyne
PM starters will have higher inrush currents than
their equal power wound field starters. This may
be problematic for some processor based accessories
that like to reset during the millisecond-long brown-
out when the starter contactor closes. The B&C
and other wound field starters will be less likely
to exhibit this characteristic.
I've not had an opportunity to do comparative testing of
the various starters but I can say that the one-
size-fits all B&C starter does indeed fit and
crank all engines. Other brands have resorted to
"high torque" or "heavy duty" designs to handle
larger or high compression engines. The B&C has
worked well on every engine from 235 to 720 since day-one.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Copper tube ground |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Rick Crapse (rwcrapse(at)att.com) on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 11:32:49
>
>Wednesday, April 21, 2004
>
>Rick Crapse
>
>,
>Email: rwcrapse(at)att.com
>Comments/Questions: Hello Bob!
>
>I know this has been discussed before, but why wouldn't a copper pipe
>ground not work in a Cozy? It seems to me that copper which is a good
>conductor would work with silver soldered tabs to it. I was planning on a
>dual use here. Vacuum on the inside, and ground through the metal. Valerie
>Harris tells me that there is an issue here. Yes, I have your book, but am
>curious as to what the issue is. What I was planning on was to run my main
>power feed down the right and the sensor wires down the left.
The first ground system I described in the 'Connection
15 years ago focused on canard pushers and indeed, a
copper conduit was suggested as doubling for a wire
pathway and system ground. A number of builders used
this material with generally good success electrically.
It is a labor intensive technique. We deduced later that
running all wires together in the same bundle down one
side of the airplane produced a similarly "quiet" system.
What you propose would work. I'd recommend you run all
wiring down the same side of the aircraft so as to avoid
generating strong magnetic fields in the cockpit due to
any un-shared electron paths between right and left sides.
If it were my airplane, I'd ditch the vacuum pump, run
an all-electric system and use plain ol' wires to
carry the electrons.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fusible link in series with breaker????? |
>Bob
>Thanks for the quick reply. I have one more question. Looking at Figure Z-11
>"Generic Light Aircraft....." . Concerning the Alt. field. You show a
>fuselink off the top of the main power bus, to the "batt/alt switch" then a
>5 amp circuit breaker? why the redundancy? And would it be OK to just come
>off the bus with the 5 amp breaker then to the switch? Thanks in advance?
You'll note that the drawing you're citing features fuse blocks. When
we add the breaker in satisfaction of crowbar ov protection
requirements, we're
EXTENDING the bus structure to the breaker's location on the panel which
may be quite remote from the fuseblock. I.e. there is a long, potentially
unprotected, small diameter wire that runs from fuseblock to breaker. What
appears to be a "redundant" protection scheme is, in fact, a cascade. The
fusible link protects wire out to the breaker, the breaker protects wire
from the breaker on to the alternator while providing a mechanism for
the crowbar ov module to work against.
If you're fabricating a breaker panel, then the 5A alternator field
breaker can occupy a position on the bus along side all other breakers
and the need for extending the bus and protecting that extension
goes away.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: revison to audio system document |
>
>Comments/Questions: The link on how to wire stereo music won't work.
>Please, any help there?
Sorry, I revised the document to revision E and didn't roll
the revision letter into the link. Thanks for the heads-up. I've
fixed the link from the webpage. You can access the new document
here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700E.pdf
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I need a sanity check. Yesterday I was helping a builder with a few odds
and ends, and the topic of a "fuel pump is operating" lamp came up. He
showed me his plan for wiring it, which was simply to wire the lamp in
parallel with the fuel pump...same fuse, shared circuit.
A warning lamp went off in my head (pun intended) and I recommended that
instead of piggybacking the lamp on the fuel pump's circuit, he should use a
simple relay setup and fuse the lamp circuit separately. I advised that
this has better inherent fault protection (should the lamp circuit short
out, the fuel pump will not be affected). If the lamp wiring were to short
out somehow, the fuse would blow and the fuel pump would be dead.
He looked at me like I was nuts, adding unnecessary complexity. Am I nuts?
I tend to think the folks on this list lean toward the conservative side,
toward the "engineered for all possibilities" philosophy. But some people
may not want to go to that extent if the likelihood of failure is slim to
none. I'd love to hear if I'm getting too over-analytical in my "old age"
and should relax about some of this stuff...
Now that I think about it, instead of a relay and separate fuse, I figure an
inline fuse could be used on the lamp circuit. That would reduce complexity
but still provide some fault tolerance...right?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Martin" <niceez(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Mark,
The MAP sensor is different from years ago...... One more thing. The
absolute max ceiling of over 30,000 feet is a LEZ with a Electro-Air
ignition. Jeff has over 2,500 unit in operation and I don't think old Klaus
is as fortunate. I myself like the more compact size and not having to
worry about the wires being to close together.
There are other reports of failures but we don't want Klaus run out of
business. Every time he does and update the older stuff is crap (to him)
and he does not want to support it. Very poor business practice IMO. I
have dealt with Klaus for years and consider him a friend and a good
person - just not a good businessman.
Yes, 235's are subject to more carbon deposit's because of a lousy intake
design then 320's or 360's. Gary Hertzler is the only one I know of that
has change intake runners and is using an Ellision TBI with good success in
a Varieze (a 230 mph VEZ).
A 235 has a few other drawbacks also. The correct engine for the LEZ was
suppose to be a 320 but Burt decided to use a 235 to make it lighter and
would greatly help small pilots with the C/G considerations and a 235 was
offered to him for $1,500.00.
John Roncz told me that when I worked at Scaled Composites.
I feel I have had enough dealings with LSE products to know they work but
also have enough common sense to know when I'm looking at a better value for
the money. I was able to sell my old unit to a friend because he hand props
his 0-200 and I was going to get the Plasma III. I got to thinking I had
better do an assessment on what else was out there and see if there was
anything better then LSE's E.I. system. I am confident I made the correct
choice. Not only that Jeff Rose is a great person and a good businessman
and you know as long as he can fog a mirror he will stand behind his
product.
Nuf said,
-Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
>
>
> Dale, just an FYI, I asked on the RV-List if anyone is having problems
with auto plugs fouling like you have experienced. So far a number of
responses on and off List indicate no problems at all like this, for either
the Electroair or LSE systems. Many responses indicated hundreds of hours
on a set of auto plugs and still going strong with no trouble. Several
replies noted they were using cheaper plugs than what Klaus supplies with
the LSE and these were working fine also. Remember these are all O-320's,
O-360's, or IO-360's. I'm thinking the issue you have experienced must be
related to the O-235, unless there's something else about the setup or
operation of your engine that could be causing it. At any rate it doesn't
sound like an LSE vs. Electroair issue per se.
>
> As a side note, I know a guy with an O-320 powered Long EZ who runs auto
plugs with magnetos. Never heard of anyone else doing this, but he claims
they work fine for him....
>
> >With 319 hours experience with an LSE CDI system and also fouled
motorcycle
> >plugs (yes that's right - fouled plugs) every 50 to 75 hours. The
magneto
> >would run smoother then the E.I. system during this. After more research
we
> >find that the truth was not told by the LSE about the proper choice of
> >plugs. I should have been using REM 37BY's (the spark plug that was
> >developed specifically for my engine) just like I do for the magneto.
> >
> >Those who I've spoke with say they get 800 to 900 hours out of there
> >aircraft spark plugs. Having used the triple ground arm plugs from
> >NippenDenso plugs (LSE want $15 per plug) I can say they work a little
> >better but they still would foul during a run-up after 40 25 hours and
this
> >was due to carbon deposits the 235L2C is known for -(my best guess
anyway).
> >Most interesting is they were all on top and the aircraft REM 37BY plugs
and
> >magneto fired all the bottom plugs and ran smooth. Best wishes to LSE
> >however I have switched to Electro-Air's E.I. which recommends Aircraft
> >plugs or the 386 plugs that fit into the standard aircraft cylinder head.
> >
> >You owe it to yourself to speak with Jeff Rose of Electro-Air if your
> >airplane use's a starter. He recommends against hand propping for those
> >with dual E.I.'s. His system already has the "longer duration spark"
that
> >LSE wants more $$$ for and use's a 60 tooth wheel to make timing
adjustments
> >every 12 verses the once every 360 (or 720) of the LSE system.
>
> Just curious, other than starting, does the 60 tooth pickup make any real
world difference in operation? The longer duration spark is definitely an
advantage for lighting very lean mixtures, but at Lycoming rpms I can't
imagine that sampling the rate any more often than every crank rotation
would have a measurable effect on efficiency of the spark timing. I suppose
during a rapid change of power, i.e. shoving the throttle from idle to full
power, a higher sampling rate could be marginally better, but you aren't
really worried about efficiency in short duration bursts like that so if the
LSE system works adequately for quick power changes (which I've heard no
complaints about) it would not seem to be an advantage to sample more than
necessary. But maybe I'm missing something...
>
> >They both use manifold pressure & electronics to retard or advance the
timing.
>
> Do you know if Jeff is still using the same differential pressure sensor
for MAP and the same timing curves as tested by CAFE? The LSE has always
used an absolute pressure sensor as it was designed for aircraft use from
the outset, whereas I believe the Electroair system was an automotive system
that used the psid sensor for MAP. CAFE noted this as a problem in the
testing they did. Differential press sensor works fine on a car, but won't
be optimum over the range of altitudes an airplane experiences...the CAFE
testing showed this to be true in several scenarios where the spark advance
was wrong and the mags actually outperformed the E.I. in these instances.
Too bad CAFE didn't test the LSE system as well...Klaus claims he sent them
a system but they never got around to testing it. A real shame.
>
> It would be cool if somebody would put both an LSE system and an
Electroair system on their airplane and fly different profiles, alternately
turning one or the other off to see the effect on airspeed, fuel flow,
engine roughness, etc. That would be the best real world test of any
tangible differences between the performance of the two designs....
>
> >snip
> >
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D finishing...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
>
>In a message dated 4/22/2004 6:59:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:
>Note - Use of conventional cell phones while airborne is illegal.
>jerb
>Yes, airborne use of conventional cell phones was illegal back in the
>eighties when I used to work for Motorola. It may still be, I don't
>know. The
>theory is that as a cell phone moves around in a "cell" of
>transmitter/receiver
>towers, the "system" tracks the phone's signal strength in order to hand
>the call
>off to the next tower. If the phone were elevated by very much height, it
>could raise so many towers that the system would become confused and not
>operate
>at all. Potentially, this would tie up a lot of collective cell bandwidth
>unnecessarily for no good purpose. This may be old information and the above
>problems have been solved by other technology. I feel old...
Old, original analog cell phones are prohibited in flight by FCC. But PCS
devices, which work in different bands, are covered by a completely
different set of regulations, which don't say anything about aircraft. I
have a long brief I wrote for my day job on it, I'll look it up.
That said, my I've looked at my sprint phone in the air - even though it
can "see" dozens of cell sites it says it's out of the service area - I
suspect it's got some internal logic that shuts it down in such
circumstances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
> He looked at me like I was nuts, adding unnecessary
> complexity. Am I nuts?
Yes:>)
Seriously, the reason for wanting a light on the boost pump is simply so
that if you forget to turn it off after some climbout, you'll notice the
light. Prior to engine start, you'll know if the pump is working by
listening to it, so no factor there. Before landing, if it doesn't work
what would you do about it anyway? The light won't tell you much in
flight other than the position of the switch, which you can look at
anyway.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 458 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
> I need a sanity check. Yesterday I was helping a builder with a few odds
> and ends, and the topic of a "fuel pump is operating" lamp came up. He
> showed me his plan for wiring it, which was simply to wire the lamp in
> parallel with the fuel pump...same fuse, shared circuit....
Dan,
I don't see how the "pump operating" light would be anything more than
annoying light on the panel during night flights. Either way you suggest
wiring it it doesnt tell you much you dont already know. Warning lights are
to tell you when something IS NOT operating. He'll know when the fuel pump
isn't operating by the sweat that builds up when the big fan stops. :)
Seriously - if he really wants a "pump operating" light, I'd say it should
be dependant on fuel flow, not power to the pump. A low fuel pressure
warning, perhaps.
My 2c
John Slade
Cozy IV Rotary turbo, flying
http://kgarden.com/cozy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sanity check |
In a message dated 4/23/04 10:50:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> Now that I think about it, instead of a relay and separate fuse, I figure
> an
> inline fuse could be used on the lamp circuit. That would reduce complexity
> but still provide some fault tolerance...right?
The fuse sounds like a good idea, but it should be the minimal necessary to
power the lamp. LED is even better (smaller fuse). I have no idea if an short
would pop the little fuse quick enough to save the main pump feed, but it
seems like it would. Maybe an experiment with all those extra fuses you have
laying around? I have a "pump on" LED block on my annunciator, and it's a great
reminder to turn the pump off after switching tanks. And I'll seriously
consider adding an inline fuse at the annunciator connection on the pump feed wire-
should have thought of that myself, thanks for passing it along.
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
It's is still illegal today as far as I know - you'll need an Air-Phone if
you want to have legal phone service while airborne or maybe one of them
Iridium satellite jobs.
jerb.
>
>In a message dated 4/22/2004 6:59:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:
>Note - Use of conventional cell phones while airborne is illegal.
>jerb
>Yes, airborne use of conventional cell phones was illegal back in the
>eighties when I used to work for Motorola. It may still be, I don't
>know. The
>theory is that as a cell phone moves around in a "cell" of
>transmitter/receiver
>towers, the "system" tracks the phone's signal strength in order to hand
>the call
>off to the next tower. If the phone were elevated by very much height, it
>could raise so many towers that the system would become confused and not
>operate
>at all. Potentially, this would tie up a lot of collective cell bandwidth
>unnecessarily for no good purpose. This may be old information and the above
>problems have been solved by other technology. I feel old...
>
>John P. Marzluf
>Columbus, Ohio
>Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sanity check |
Alex,
I'm not advocating the warning lamp...I don't have one in my plane and
personally don't believe it's very useful. But this builder has one, and I
was just trying to determine the safest way for him to wire it.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: sanity check
>
> > He looked at me like I was nuts, adding unnecessary
> > complexity. Am I nuts?
>
> Yes:>)
>
> Seriously, the reason for wanting a light on the boost pump is simply so
> that if you forget to turn it off after some climbout, you'll notice the
> light. Prior to engine start, you'll know if the pump is working by
> listening to it, so no factor there. Before landing, if it doesn't work
> what would you do about it anyway? The light won't tell you much in
> flight other than the position of the switch, which you can look at
> anyway.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 458 hours
>
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net> |
| Subject: | manual battery contactor |
Many thanks to Bob Nuckolls for the AeroElectric Connection. I suspect he has
saved many a pilot's buns, and I'm definitely planning on having mine be among
them!
I do have a couple questions that I haven't been able to find the answers to.
Two of them are very basic and regard electron flow, and the other regards the
possibility of a manually operated battery contactor.
Could someone help me with a couple questions on some of the material in the book?
Understanding the first two questions below would help me better understand
some of the other principles in the book, which I have read pretty thoroughly.
Question 1: On page 1-2 of the Connection it states that when resistors are connected
in series, the sum of the voltage drops across each resistor equals the
total voltage applied to the string. I'm interpreting that to mean that there
is zero pressure downstream of the last resistor in line but, if this were
true, if you only had one resistor there would be zero voltage available for
a downstream device. I've seen similar statements in other books, but just
cannot figure it out. What simple fact am I missing?
Question 2: On page1-3 (I told you these were basic questions!) in the top drawing
of Figure 1-4 it shows 13.8 volts of pressure in the wire between the +battery
terminal and the landing light when the switch is open. I don't understand
how could pressure go through an open switch..? But more fundamentally, if
electrons flow from negative to positive, wouldn't the pressure be between the
negative terminal (or ground wire for the light) and the light? Maybe it
is that the positive terminal exerts sort of a "sucking" type pressure on electrons?
(But then wouldn't it be called the negative terminal :-) ?)
Question 3: Those of us installing Jabiru engines only get 10amps "continuous"
out of the alternator, and are reluctant to spend one of those on a battery contactor.
Might it be possible to fabricate a manually operated contactor, perhaps
operated by a standard push-pull cable from the cockpit? If so, could anyone
suggest some ideas?
BTW, given that Jabirus are becoming increasingly popular, this might be an item
people would purchase if available.
Many thanks,
Bob Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BTomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
When an incandescent bulb fails it goes open circuit "probably" always.
This would not affect the operation of the pump. That's not to say that
the wiring for the lamp circuit adds some risk for failure thereby causing
the fuse to trip. I don't see a problem here other than the circuit should
be labeled "fuel pump". A "fuel pump is operating" lamp should be
controlled by a pressure switch indicating that the fuel pump is producing
correct output pressure and volume. This scenario is not required for an
Aux pump in my opinion.
Bevan
RV7A fuse
On Friday, April 23, 2004 8:45 AM, Dan Checkoway [SMTP:dan(at)rvproject.com]
wrote:
>
> I need a sanity check. Yesterday I was helping a builder with a few odds
> and ends, and the topic of a "fuel pump is operating" lamp came up. He
> showed me his plan for wiring it, which was simply to wire the lamp in
> parallel with the fuel pump...same fuse, shared circuit.
>
> A warning lamp went off in my head (pun intended) and I recommended that
> instead of piggybacking the lamp on the fuel pump's circuit, he should
use a
> simple relay setup and fuse the lamp circuit separately. I advised that
> this has better inherent fault protection (should the lamp circuit short
> out, the fuel pump will not be affected). If the lamp wiring were to
short
> out somehow, the fuse would blow and the fuel pump would be dead.
>
> He looked at me like I was nuts, adding unnecessary complexity. Am I
nuts?
> I tend to think the folks on this list lean toward the conservative side,
> toward the "engineered for all possibilities" philosophy. But some
people
> may not want to go to that extent if the likelihood of failure is slim to
> none. I'd love to hear if I'm getting too over-analytical in my "old
age"
> and should relax about some of this stuff...
>
> Now that I think about it, instead of a relay and separate fuse, I figure
an
> inline fuse could be used on the lamp circuit. That would reduce
complexity
> but still provide some fault tolerance...right?
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Bench test power supply opportunity |
There's a bunch of these critters on Ebay for $25.00 each
free shipping or lower prices + $7 shipping. Either way
they're a good deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3172234463
Listing says they'll adjust up to 13.8 volts. This makes them
suited to ground testing your panel mounted goodies or bench
testing . . . this device is rated for up to 13 amps load. I
just picked up a couple but this supplier seems to have quite
a few . . .
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Thanks for Responses |
To all who responded regarding using automotive plugs with EI systems - Thank
You.
The responses were detailed and provided good data points.
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
With my Airflow Performance fuel injection system and I think most other
Lycomming type engines, the electric fuel pump is a boost pump, to only be
used during times when a loss of the mechanical fuel pump would be critical,
such as takeoff and landing and maybe switching tanks. An indicator light
serves as a reminder to turn it off after takeoff, or at least that's why I
am installing a light that indicates it is operating, or more accurately,
has power to it. The man with the rotary turbo probably relies on the
electric pump to provide fuel pressure all the time, so a fuel PRESSURE
warning light makes sense to him. If I were to install a fuel pressure
warning light, it would tell me it the main fuel pump failed and the boost
pump is off, but it wouldn't remind me to turn off the boost pump after
switching tanks.
I still like the idea of an automatic boost pump switch that turns the boost
pump and a warning light on when the fuel pressure drops.
Terry
... A "fuel pump is operating" lamp should be
controlled by a pressure switch indicating that the fuel pump is producing
correct output pressure and volume. This scenario is not required for an
Aux pump in my opinion.
Bevan
RV7A fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: manual battery contactor |
Hi, Bob...
Voltage is the DIFFERENCE of potential between the points being
measured. If you want to compare it to water, as you have, then it is
similar to the water pressure available when a valve is closed and no
water is flowing. The pressure is there, but the valve (switch) prevents
it from going anywhere. So, electrically, if two points are not
connected, as through an open switch, the potential difference is the
greatest because one side has current available, while the other doesn't.
In your example, one point is +13.8 volts, and with the switch open,
the other point is 0...the difference is 13.8 volts. When the switch is
closed, like opening the water valve, current (water) can now flow, and
the voltage on both points is the same...so a voltage reading between
those two points will be 0. Just like when the water valve is open, and
the water is flowing, the water pressure drops off to almost 0.
If a "resistor" is placed in the circuit, then it "Resists" some of the
flow. That amount is determined by the "size" (or ohms value) of the
resistor. So there will be a potential difference if the voltage
measurement is taken across the resistor. This measurement across the
resistor is called voltage drop.
If you string out a bunch of resistors in a circuit where the voltage
(measured from one end of the circuit to the other) remains constant,
then the voltage drop across each resistor, totaled MUST equal the
voltage of the entire circuit. No one has increased the available
current (voltage) so if it is flowing, the total in the circuit must be
the sum total across all the resistances.
I strongly suggest you borrow a very basic book on electronics from the
library...as you go through Bob's books, you are going to find a lot
more questions like this...and they just get tougher to explain! The
water analogy I used above breaks down very quickly when you get just a
little deeper into it...induction for example...the presence of current
induced in a nearby wire, with no connection between them. Can't do
that with water!
Or, just take Bob's word for it, and don't try to understand the
details...just follow his instructions...as you work with it, you'll
understand it better than if you are just trying to read about it.
Harley Dixon
Bob Miller wrote:
>
>Many thanks to Bob Nuckolls for the AeroElectric Connection. I suspect he has
saved many a pilot's buns, and I'm definitely planning on having mine be among
them!
>
>
>I do have a couple questions that I haven't been able to find the answers to.
Two of them are very basic and regard electron flow, and the other regards the
possibility of a manually operated battery contactor.
>
>
>Could someone help me with a couple questions on some of the material in the book?
Understanding the first two questions below would help me better understand
some of the other principles in the book, which I have read pretty thoroughly.
>
>
>Question 1: On page 1-2 of the Connection it states that when resistors are
connected in series, the sum of the voltage drops across each resistor equals
the total voltage applied to the string. I'm interpreting that to mean that there
is zero pressure downstream of the last resistor in line but, if this were
true, if you only had one resistor there would be zero voltage available for
a downstream device. I've seen similar statements in other books, but just
cannot figure it out. What simple fact am I missing?
>
>
>Question 2: On page1-3 (I told you these were basic questions!) in the top drawing
of Figure 1-4 it shows 13.8 volts of pressure in the wire between the +battery
terminal and the landing light when the switch is open. I don't understand
how could pressure go through an open switch..? But more fundamentally,
if electrons flow from negative to positive, wouldn't the pressure be between
the negative terminal (or ground wire for the light) and the light? Maybe it
is that the positive terminal exerts sort of a "sucking" type pressure on electrons?
(But then wouldn't it be called the negative terminal :-) ?)
>
>
>Question 3: Those of us installing Jabiru engines only get 10amps "continuous"
out of the alternator, and are reluctant to spend one of those on a battery contactor.
Might it be possible to fabricate a manually operated contactor, perhaps
operated by a standard push-pull cable from the cockpit? If so, could anyone
suggest some ideas?
>
>
>BTW, given that Jabirus are becoming increasingly popular, this might be an item
people would purchase if available.
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>
>Bob Miller
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench test power supply opportunity |
If you look at his ebay store he also has more of these listed at $17.99
as well as $24.50...
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>There's a bunch of these critters on Ebay for $25.00 each
>free shipping or lower prices + $7 shipping. Either way
>they're a good deal.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3172234463
>
>
>Listing says they'll adjust up to 13.8 volts. This makes them
>suited to ground testing your panel mounted goodies or bench
>testing . . . this device is rated for up to 13 amps load. I
>just picked up a couple but this supplier seems to have quite
>a few . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: manual battery contactor |
> Question 1: On page 1-2 of the Connection it states that when resistors
> are connected in series, the sum of the voltage drops across each resistor
> equals the total voltage applied to the string. I'm interpreting that to
> mean that there is zero pressure downstream of the last resistor in line
> but, if this were true, if you only had one resistor there would be zero
> voltage available for a downstream device. I've seen similar statements
> in other books, but just cannot figure it out. What simple fact am I
> missing?
You're missing the downstream device itself - it's a resistor, too. (Well,
most devices can be approximated down to this, anyway.) Assume a simple case -
two resistors and a lamp. That's really three resistors; the lamp is one as
well. If you remove one resistor, from the chain now you just have two
(resistor plus lamp), not one (just a resistor).
> Question 2: On page1-3 (I told you these were basic questions!) in the top
> drawing of Figure 1-4 it shows 13.8 volts of pressure in the wire between
> the +battery terminal and the landing light when the switch is open. I
> don't understand how could pressure go through an open switch..? But more
> fundamentally, if electrons flow from negative to positive, wouldn't the
> pressure be between the negative terminal (or ground wire for the light)
> and the light? Maybe it is that the positive terminal exerts sort of a
> "sucking" type pressure on electrons? (But then wouldn't it be called the
> negative terminal :-) ?)
You're touching on a common confusion in electrical design. If you talk to a
physicist s/he will tell you that current flows from negative (electron
source) to positive (electron seeking). If you talk to an electrical engineer
s/he'll tell you that the positive terminal is the "supply." They're really
both saying the same thing but in different ways but it can be confusing when
you try to think of it in your head.
The negative terminal is called that because electrons are negatively charged,
and it has the excess. The positive terminal lacks electrons, and seeks them.
Electrons always flow from regions with an excess to regions that have too
few. When you do your wiring, think of the positive terminal as the "hot"
side. The "sucking" analogy is fairly accurate, but it's the positive terminal
that sucks. =)
I don't have the book so Bob should answer the Figure 1-4 portion.
> Question 3: Those of us installing Jabiru engines only get 10amps
> "continuous" out of the alternator, and are reluctant to spend one of those
> on a battery contactor. Might it be possible to fabricate a manually
> operated contactor, perhaps operated by a standard push-pull cable from the
> cockpit? If so, could anyone suggest some ideas?
Sure. Check out www.onlinemarine.com and go to Electrical->Battery Isolators
and Switches. Both Guest and Blue Sea Systems make these switches, and the
Blue Sea devices have the added advantage of an alternator field disconnect so
your alternator doesn't go nuts if you switch off while the engine is still
running. There are smaller versions available somewhere that I can't remember
off the top of my head that would be more suitable to a push-pull cable. Or
just take a look at Bob's endurance bus design, which includes an alternate
feed for key devices during alternator-out events.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: manual battery contactor |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Understanding electronics is something done best with a combination of
experience. Reading books and going to lectures provides part of the
picture, but there is no substitute for lab work.
I recommend getting a multimeter, a breadboard few resistors, a couple
of switches, a dc lamp, a couple of batteries, some wire, and maybe an
LED. Then try hooking some of these components together into some
circuits. Make the lamp light, and be able to control it with the
circuit. Use
a resistor to dim the light. Figure out how to make an LED produce light.
Use the multimeter to measure the Voltage across and the current through
each of the components. Using basic "Voltage = Current times Resistance,"
predict and explain what you measure.
Here's a useable breadboard. While solid, single strand wire isn't good
in airplanes, it is fine in prototyping...
http://www.outpost.com/product/3522224/
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Many thanks to Bob Nuckolls for the AeroElectric Connection. I suspect
> he has saved many a pilot's buns, and I'm definitely planning on having
> mine be among them!
>
>
> I do have a couple questions that I haven't been able to find the
> answers to. Two of them are very basic and regard electron flow, and
> the other regards the possibility of a manually operated battery
> contactor.
>
>
> Could someone help me with a couple questions on some of the material in
> the book? Understanding the first two questions below would help me
> better understand some of the other principles in the book, which I have
snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | electric trim switches |
Gentlemen,
I'd like some input WRT an idea. If both control sticks have (ON) OFF (ON)
trim control switches, and there is no "take control" switch to authorize
one or the other, then it's possible to have a grand short circuit if one
pilot keys UP while the other keys DOWN...., UNLESS there is a clever
circuit involved that disallows the motor from being asked to run in both
directions at once. If pilot #1 keys UP first, pilot #2 could key DOWN but
it would have NO EFFECT until pilot #1 releases his switch. Either switch
would "lock out" the other, depending on who activates the trim first. I
think I'd like to incorporate this idea if the circuit is SIMPLE, but I
don't like the idea of adding a lot of complexity and potential for failure.
Thoughts??
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
Glasair Super IISRG, N360TS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
| Subject: | Re: sanity check |
Does AFP sell more than one kind of injection system? My understanding
of the ones I've seen is that the engine is not going to run without the
electric pump running... Their web site makes me think that as well.
In regards to the fuel pump on light discussion, I would tend to think
that a relay is much more likely to short out than a light bulb.
Ken
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> With my Airflow Performance fuel injection system and I think most other
> Lycomming type engines, the electric fuel pump is a boost pump, to only be
> used during times when a loss of the mechanical fuel pump would be critical,
> such as takeoff and landing and maybe switching tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: sanity check |
On my set up the elect fuel pump is only used for priming and back up fuel
pump. The engine runs off the mechanical pump after being primed by the
elect pump. In some installations there is no mechanical fuel pump and 2
elect pumps. One primary and the other back up.
>
>Does AFP sell more than one kind of injection system? My understanding
>of the ones I've seen is that the engine is not going to run without the
>electric pump running... Their web site makes me think that as well.
>
>In regards to the fuel pump on light discussion, I would tend to think
>that a relay is much more likely to short out than a light bulb.
>
>Ken
>
>Terry Watson wrote:
>>
>> With my Airflow Performance fuel injection system and I think most other
>> Lycomming type engines, the electric fuel pump is a boost pump, to only be
>> used during times when a loss of the mechanical fuel pump would be critical,
>> such as takeoff and landing and maybe switching tanks.
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ACK E01 ELT antenna wire |
My ELT (ACK Technologies E-01) came with a length of coax cable for the whip
antenna.
Question: Can I shorten this cable and crimp on a new BNC connector if the
cable is far too long for my application, or will this cause some problems?
Thanks.
Amit Dagan
RV-7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for Responses |
So, please share with everyone what you think is the better solution/choice
with all the info you got. Don't worry about what your decision is. You
will not change too many opinions one way or the other. I for one know I'd
like to know your opinion based on the info you received. I'm undecided on
two things: I like the idea of lower cost plugs too. I just am a bit
concerned that they may have performance problems ( someone said it was
4% ).
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: <Speedy11(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thanks for Responses
>
> To all who responded regarding using automotive plugs with EI systems -
Thank
> You.
>
> The responses were detailed and provided good data points.
>
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Part of your confusion may be that injection systems, AFP included, uses
higher fuel pressure than carbs, e.g. ~12-15 psi. The typical Lycoming
IO-xxx setup uses a high pressure engine driven fuel pump (about the same $$
as low pressure pump) with a high-$$ electric aux/boost pump. AFP's boost
pump is much cheaper than Weldon or other certified pumps.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> Does AFP sell more than one kind of injection system? My
> understanding
> of the ones I've seen is that the engine is not going to run
> without the
> electric pump running... Their web site makes me think that as well.
>
> In regards to the fuel pump on light discussion, I would tend
> to think
> that a relay is much more likely to short out than a light bulb.
>
> Ken
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Triano" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | Bench test power supply opportunity |
Dick, check into it further, the cheaper one is with out shipping.
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Tasker
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bench test power supply opportunity
If you look at his ebay store he also has more of these listed at $17.99
as well as $24.50...
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>There's a bunch of these critters on Ebay for $25.00 each
>free shipping or lower prices + $7 shipping. Either way
>they're a good deal.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3172234463
>
>
>Listing says they'll adjust up to 13.8 volts. This makes them
>suited to ground testing your panel mounted goodies or bench
>testing . . . this device is rated for up to 13 amps load. I
>just picked up a couple but this supplier seems to have quite
>a few . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ACK E01 ELT antenna wire |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
No problem shortening the coax antenna lead.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> My ELT (ACK Technologies E-01) came with a length of coax cable for the
> whip antenna.
> Question: Can I shorten this cable and crimp on a new BNC connector if
> the cable is far too long for my application, or will this cause some
> problems? Thanks.
> Amit Dagan
> RV-7.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
I think you misread my post....I was talking about autmotive spark plugs, not autogas.
I know there's lots of autofuel STC's out there, but hadn't heard of
anyone using automotive spark plugs in a Lycoming with Magneto ignition.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
Re: AeroElectric-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
In a message dated 4/22/04 1:12:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
As a side note, I know a guy with an O-320 powered Long EZ who runs auto
plugs with magnetos. Never heard of anyone else doing this, but he claims they
work fine for him....
Good Evening Mark,
For What It Is Worth --- There are many 320 Lycomings that have
been flying for years using autogas and magnetos in certificated
airplanes. Auto gas approvals abound for that engine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric trim switches |
Troy,
The 3 pole double throw and 4 pole double throw switches I referred to making
a group purchase on yesterday are for exactly the purpose you mention. They are
to control which stick grip has "live" buttons. These switches also disable
the buttons on the grip not selected. If you have AutoCAD or another program that
reads DWG files, I can email you a copy of my electric flap circuit. Seeing
this circuit should aid in understanding how these switches are used.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I'd like some input WRT an idea. If both control sticks have (ON) OFF (ON)
>trim control switches, and there is no "take control" switch to authorize
>one or the other, then it's possible to have a grand short circuit if one
>pilot keys UP while the other keys DOWN...., UNLESS there is a clever
>circuit involved that disallows the motor from being asked to run in both
>directions at once. If pilot #1 keys UP first, pilot #2 could key DOWN but
>it would have NO EFFECT until pilot #1 releases his switch. Either switch
>would "lock out" the other, depending on who activates the trim first. I
>think I'd like to incorporate this idea if the circuit is SIMPLE, but I
>don't like the idea of adding a lot of complexity and potential for failure.
>Thoughts??
>
>Regards,
>Troy Scott
>tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
>Glasair Super IISRG, N360TS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | electric trim switches |
Troy,
Good thought, I would like to add one thing to possibly think about (you
might have already) in your example say instead,
Co-pilot switch FAILS in the down trim position first and you try to command
up trim latter, How do you go about correcting the problem aka with a switch
priority you can now disable the fault and control trim normally again.
Just something to think about
Jeff.
-->
Gentlemen,
I'd like some input WRT an idea. If both control sticks have (ON) OFF (ON)
trim control switches, and there is no "take control" switch to authorize
one or the other, then it's possible to have a grand short circuit if one
pilot keys UP while the other keys DOWN...., UNLESS there is a clever
circuit involved that disallows the motor from being asked to run in both
directions at once. If pilot #1 keys UP first, pilot #2 could key DOWN but
it would have NO EFFECT until pilot #1 releases his switch. Either switch
would "lock out" the other, depending on who activates the trim first. I
think I'd like to incorporate this idea if the circuit is SIMPLE, but I
don't like the idea of adding a lot of complexity and potential for failure.
Thoughts??
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
Glasair Super IISRG, N360TS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
In a message dated 4/23/04 5:13:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
Bob,
I think you misread my post....I was talking about autmotive spark plugs, not
autogas. I know there's lots of autofuel STC's out there, but hadn't heard
of anyone using automotive spark plugs in a Lycoming with Magneto ignition.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
Good Evening Mark,
You are correct. It is not only my thinking that is suffering from
senility, my reading is doing the same!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glong2" <glong2(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | ACK E01 ELT antenna wire |
Amit:
Here is a copy of a post about the ELT for the Lancair I am assembling. I
had the same proble with following the instructions from ACK on ground
planes and antenna separation.
Bob and all others who responded to the ELT antenna questions
Following Gregg Tanners lead, I called Bob Archer because all my other
antennas are from Archer.
Here is what he had to say:
1. Install two parallel 18" strips of conductive material (copper tape,
wire, coat hangers, etc.) on the ceiling parallel to the longitudinal axis.
This will not affect the VOR antenna if they are separated by a small
distance (assuming about a foot).
2. Solder or connect the coax in the center of the strips, shield to one
strip, center to the other.
3. Run coax to ELT.
His claim is this antenna, which is cross polarized, is a factor of two
better than most certified airplane ELT antennas. He says a satellite will
pick up the signal from the antenna regardless of the final resting position
of the aircraft.
Eugene Long
Lancair Super ES
glong2(at)netzero.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Amit
Dagan
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ACK E01 ELT antenna wire
My ELT (ACK Technologies E-01) came with a length of coax cable for the whip
antenna.
Question: Can I shorten this cable and crimp on a new BNC connector if the
cable is far too long for my application, or will this cause some problems?
Thanks.
Amit Dagan
RV-7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: electric trim switches |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Charlie -
I have AutoCAD 200LT and would love to get a file of the flap circuitry.
Many hanks,
John
> If you have > AutoCAD or another program that reads DWG files, I can
> email you a copy of my electric flap circuit. Seeing this circuit should
> aid in understanding how these switches are used.
> Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric trim switches |
John
Here you go. This switch allows pilot, copilot or OFF for the flap circuit. The
power must be switched because there is a possibility of the WHITE or WHITE/BLUE
wires (between the relays and the switch) shorting to ground. If this happens,
a flap runaway would result. If the power was not switched, choosing the
OFF position would not work to stop the runaway. A 4 pole version of this switch
is used to do the same thing on a 2 axis electric trim system. I'm still
finalizing the schematic for that circuit.
Charlie
>
>Charlie -
>
>I have AutoCAD 200LT and would love to get a file of the flap circuitry.
>
>Many hanks,
>
>John
>
>
>> If you have > AutoCAD or another program that reads DWG files, I can
>> email you a copy of my electric flap circuit. Seeing this circuit should
>> aid in understanding how these switches are used.
>> Charlie Kuss
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | electric trim switches |
Can I get a copy?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric trim switches
John
Here you go. This switch allows pilot, copilot or OFF for the flap
circuit. The power must be switched because there is a possibility of
the WHITE or WHITE/BLUE wires (between the relays and the switch)
shorting to ground. If this happens, a flap runaway would result. If
the power was not switched, choosing the OFF position would not work to
stop the runaway. A 4 pole version of this switch is used to do the same
thing on a 2 axis electric trim system. I'm still finalizing the
schematic for that circuit.
Charlie
>
>Charlie -
>
>I have AutoCAD 200LT and would love to get a file of the flap
circuitry.
>
>Many hanks,
>
>John
>
>
>> If you have > AutoCAD or another program that reads DWG files, I can
>> email you a copy of my electric flap circuit. Seeing this circuit
should
>> aid in understanding how these switches are used.
>> Charlie Kuss
>
>
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual battery contactor |
>
>
>Many thanks to Bob Nuckolls for the AeroElectric Connection. I suspect he
>has saved many a pilot's buns, and I'm definitely planning on having mine
>be among them!
>
>
>I do have a couple questions that I haven't been able to find the answers
>to. Two of them are very basic and regard electron flow, and the other
>regards the possibility of a manually operated battery contactor.
>
>
>Could someone help me with a couple questions on some of the material in
>the book? Understanding the first two questions below would help me better
>understand some of the other principles in the book, which I have read
>pretty thoroughly.
>
>
>Question 1: On page 1-2 of the Connection it states that when resistors
>are connected in series, the sum of the voltage drops across each resistor
>equals the total voltage applied to the string. I'm interpreting that to
>mean that there is zero pressure downstream of the last resistor in line
>but, if this were true, if you only had one resistor there would be zero
>voltage available for a downstream device. I've seen similar statements
>in other books, but just cannot figure it out. What simple fact am I missing?
voltage or "pressure" is distributed around the string of resistors such
that the sum of voltages for each resistor is equal to applied voltage. For
example, in Figure 1-2 if we hooked a 39 volt power supply to the string of
resistors in the right side of the figure, current flowing in the circuit
would be E/R = 39v/13ohms = 3 amps. Figuring the votlage drop across each
resistor (E = I x R) the 1 ohm resistor would drop 3 amps x 1 ohm or 3
volts.
The 2 ohm resistor would drop 3 amps x 2 ohms or 6 volts. The 10 ohm
resistor
would drop 3 amps x 10 ohms or 30 volts. Add up the 3 + 6 + 30 and we get
39 volts. Exactly equal to the applied voltage.
>Question 2: On page1-3 (I told you these were basic questions!) in the
>top drawing of Figure 1-4 it shows 13.8 volts of pressure in the wire
>between the +battery terminal and the landing light when the switch is
>open. I don't understand how could pressure go through an open switch..?
How does pressure go through a closed valve? It doesn't. Pressure is the
POTENTIAL to do work. You can have an air bottle pumped up to 120 psi or
a battery charged to 12 volts. Either one can sit in a static state without
an exchange of energy. Close the switch (or open a valve) and the POTENTIAL
energy puts motion on electrons (or air molecules). The formerly static
condition is now dynamic . . . stuff is moving. You will not that in the
upper half of figure 1-4, the battery shows 13.8 but the lamp shows zero
volts. relating this back to the resistor string example above, applied
voltage is 13.8 and resistance across the open switch is infinite . . . so
ALL potential energy appears across the switch. But because there is no
current flow, the system is still static. Nothing is moving. No energy
leaves the battery. Zero current in wires yields zero voltage drop. Zero
current across the lamp yields zero voltage drop.
When you close the switch, current flows and we see small voltage drops
in properly sized switch and wires with the majority of voltage dropped
across the lamp. Again, we've violated none of Kirchoff's laws. In every
case, total voltage across loads is equal to total voltage from source.
In first case current everywhere in circuit is zero and no energy is
changing places. In second case, current is some finite value (11.54 amps),
sum of voltages in loads add up to total of voltage applied by battery,
current everywhere in circuit is 11.54 amps and energy is moving from
battery through wires to generate a little heat and the lamp's filament
to generate a lot of heat (and light).
Download the CD from my website at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/AEC8_0.zip
Unzip onto a CD and then go to the directory called Navy Electronics Course
See pages 3-1 through 3-17 of Module01.pdf for multiple, illustrated
examples
of these concepts.
>Question 3: Those of us installing Jabiru engines only get 10amps
>"continuous" out of the alternator, and are reluctant to spend one of
>those on a battery contactor. Might it be possible to fabricate a
>manually operated contactor, perhaps operated by a standard push-pull
>cable from the cockpit? If so, could anyone suggest some ideas?
It's been done a lot and discussed several times on the list.
There are any number of manual battery switches suited to
the control of cranking loads. See automotive speed shops
an marine suppliers for battery switches.
Check out Cole-Hersee battery switches at:
http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/master_cat/t_battery.PDF
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Robertson" <grobertson(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Manual battery contactor |
>>The negative terminal is called that because electrons are negatively
charged,
>>and it has the excess. The positive terminal lacks electrons, and seeks
them.
This is always confusing to the non-electrical engineer. It comes about
because before folks recognized that current was a flow of electrons, and
were experimenting with batteries, they just picked one battery terminal as
*positive* and one as *negative*. Could easily have picked it the other
way around. Unfortunately, when they realized that the electrons actually
flowed the other way from what they had picked, the only solution was to
define the electron charge as negative. Everything else follows from that
single unfortunate guess.
Gordon Robertson
RV8- waiting for engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure warning light |
All this talk about electric pump operating lights prompts me to get
comments on an idea I had: Put a pressure switch in the line between the
mechanical pump and the carburetor or injector servo. When the fuel
pressure drops below the switch point a latching relay is energized, turning
on the electric pump. Of course, as soon as the electric pump starts
delivering pressure the switch will turn back off, but the latching relay
will keep the pump on. The hold circuit to the latching relay can be
interrupted with the fuel pump switch, which would be of the on-off-on
variety, one of the on positions being the "automatic" setting and the other
a positive on. On master-on, turn the switch to the auto position,
verifying that the pump turns on and stays on, then turn it off to shut it
off for engine starting (just to reduce battery draw during cranking). Then
turn it back to the auto position for the flight. The relay would also turn
on an "electric pump operating" light, as otherwise there would be no way to
know if the mechanical pump failed during flight. I think the extra
complexity is worth it as it removes the pilot from a critical failure mode
scenario. To assume the pilot will always remember to turn on the electric
pump in case a sudden silence is a false assumption. My partner experienced
just such a silence and he never tried the electric pump - in this case it
wouldn't have done any good anyway, but the point remains that to rely on
human performance in an emergency is a weak design philosophy.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
>
>It's is still illegal today as far as I know - you'll need an Air-Phone if
>you want to have legal phone service while airborne or maybe one of them
>Iridium satellite jobs.
>jerb.
Here's the memo I wrote for work, use at your own risk, I'm not a lawyer,
your mileage may vary, etc.
----------
The use of cellular telephones in airplanes is regulated by both the FCC
and the FAA. The applicable code sections are:
FCC: Sec. 22.925 Subpart H Cellular Radiotelephone Service
Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.
Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or
any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are
airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground,
all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The
following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone
installed in any aircraft: ``The use of cellular telephones while this
aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this
rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use
of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to
FAA regulations.
There is an exception made specifically for "Air Cell" service, and I have
a bunch of supporting material on that. Basically, It uses AMPS
frequencies and (modified) AMPS equipment (including FCC-definition
"cellular telephones"). Power output is reduced and horizontally-polarized
antennas are used. The license is limited both in extent (it can only
support a couple of hundred users nationwide at any one time) and duration
(it's being renewed a couple of years at a time.)
The FAA supports this rule with FARs 91.21, 121.306, and 135.144
(Portable electronic devices.) The three sections are identical, 91
applies to general aviation, 121 to airlines and 135 to commuters. The 121
section reads:
Sec. 121.306 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may
operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the
operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil
aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate
holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or
communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
In addition to the regulation we also have an Advisory Circular that
explains all this for general aviation. It's AC 91.21-1A (Use of Portable
Electronic Devices Aboard Aircraft). Ive included it at the end of this
message. An AC does not carry the authority of a regulation - it's
recommendations on how to comply with an underlying regulation. And in
this case, the three FAR sections includes an exception for all portable
electronic devices that (b)5 the part 119 certificate holder has determined
will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of
the aircraft on which it is to be used.
Here's where it gets interesting.
According to the FCC, "cellular telephone" only refers to equipment
operating under Part 22. This includes not only analog (AMPS) equipment
but also digital service that AMPS providers provide. AMPS providers have
been authorized to provide digital service on the same frequencies
(824-849/869-894 MHz) under a blanket authorization that only requires that
they continue to provide AMPS service for some unknown period.
Per my conversation with Mike Ferrante of the FCC's Wireless
Telecommunications Bureau Enforcement Division last year, PCS is a whole
different ballgame. There is no airborne use restriction (from the FCC) on
PCS. The FCC has allocated 25MHz to PCS and the industry is free to allow
all or part of that to be used by airborne customers. Narrowband PCS
operates 901-902 MHz, 930-931 MHz, and 940-941 MHz. PCS is covered under
Part 24 of the FCC regulations, which dont mention airplanes or airborne
use at all. FAA regulations and advisory circulars do not address
PCS. They only refer to cellular telephones (like AC 91.21-1A 7ii)
Therefore, under FAR 121.306 paragraph B5, if a part 119 or part 91
certificate holder wants to permit the use of PCS phones in their aircraft,
they are authorized to determine that the PCS phones don't interfere with
communications or navigation, and proceed.
USE OF PORTABLE ELECTRONIC
Date: 10/02/00
AC No: 91.21-1A
DEVICES ABOARD AIRCRAFT
Initiated by: AFS-330
Change:
1. PURPOSE.
This advisory circular (AC) provides aircraft operators with information
and guidance for assistance in compliance to Title 14 of the Code of
Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 91, section 91.21. Section 91.21 was
established because of the potential for portable electronic devices (PED)
to interfere with aircraft communications and navigation equipment. It
prohibits the operation of PED's aboard U.S.-registered civil aircraft,
operated by the holder of an air carrier operating certificate, an
operating certificate, or any other aircraft while operating under
instrument flight rules (IFR). This rule permits use of specified PED's and
other devices that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not
interfere with the safe operation of the aircraft in which it is operated.
The recommendations contained herein are one means,
but not the only means, of complying with section 91.21 requirements,
pertaining to the operation of PED's.
2.
CANCELLATION.
AC 91.21-1, Use of Portable Electronic Devices Aboard Aircraft, dated
August 20, 1993, is canceled.
3.
RELATED 14 CFR SECTIONS.
Section 91.21, 121.306, 125.204, and 135.144.
4.
BACKGROUND.
Section 91.21 (formerly 91.19) was initially established in May 1961 to
prohibit the operation of portable frequency-modulated radio receivers
aboard U.S. air carrier and U.S.-registered aircraft when the very high
frequency omnidirectional range was being used for navigation purposes. The
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) subsequently determined that other
PED's could be potentially hazardous to aircraft communication and
navigation equipment, if operated aboard aircraft. Amendment 91-35 amended
the scope of former section 91.19 to prohibit the use of additional PED's
aboard certain U.S. civil aircraft. Earlier studies conducted by RTCA, Inc.
(RTCA), Special Committee 156, Document No. RTCA/DO-199, Volumes 1 and 2,
entitled "Potential Interference to Aircraft Electronic Equipment from
Devices Carried Aboard," have contributed greatly to an understanding of
the operational effects of PED's aboard aircraft.
(See paragraph 7b for obtaining copies.)
5.
DISCUSSION.
Section 91.21 allows for the operation of PED's which the operator of the
aircraft has determined will not interfere with the navigation or
communication system of that aircraft. The determination of the effect of a
particular device on the navigation and communication system of the
aircraft on which it is to be used or operated must, in case of an aircraft
operated by the holder of an air carrier certificate or other operating
certificate, be made by that operator (i.e., certificate holder). In all
other cases, a determination must be made and it may be made by the
operator and/or the pilot-in-command (PIC). In some cases, the
determination may be based on operational tests conducted by the operator
without sophisticated testing equipment. When safely at cruise altitude,
the pilot could allow the devices to be operated. If interference is
experienced, the types of devices causing interference could be isolated,
along with the applicable conditions recorded. The device responsible for
the interference should then be turned off. If all operators collect this
type of data with specific information, a large enough database could be
generated to identify specific devices
Page 2
10/02/00
AC 91.21-1A
Page 2
Par 5
causing interference. The operator may elect to obtain the services of a
person or facility having the capability of making the determination for
the particular electronic device and aircraft concerned. The rule as
adopted was drafted to require the air carrier or commercial operator to
determine whether a particular PED will cause interference when operated
aboard its aircraft. Personnel specifically designated by the air carrier
or commercial operator for this purpose may make this determination. For
other aircraft, the language of the rule expressly permits the
determination to be made by the PIC or operators of the aircraft. Thus, in
the case of rental aircraft, the renter-pilot, lessee, or owner-operator
could make the determination.
6.
RECOMMENDED PROCEDURES FOR THE OPERATION OF PED's ABOARD AIRCRAFT.
a.
If an operator allows the use of PED's aboard its aircraft, procedures
should be established and spelled out clearly to control their use during
passenger-carrying operations. The procedures, when used in conjunction
with an operator's program, should provide the following:
(1) Methods to inform passengers of permissible times, conditions, and
limitations when various PED's may be used. This may be accomplished
through the departure briefing, passenger information cards, captain's
announcement, and other methods deemed appropriate by the operator. The
limitations, as a minimum, should state that use of all such devices
(except certain inaccessible medical electronic devices, such as
pacemakers) are prohibited during any phase of operation when their use
could interfere with the communication or navigation equipment on board the
aircraft or the ability of the flightcrew to give necessary instructions in
the event of an emergency.
(2) Procedures to terminate the operation of PED's suspected of causing
interference with aircraft systems.
(3) Procedures for reporting instances of suspected and confirmed
interferences by a PED to the local FAA Flight Standards District Office.
(4) Cockpit to cabin coordination and cockpit flightcrew monitoring procedures.
(5) Procedures for determining acceptability of those portable electronic
components to be operated aboard its aircraft. The operator of the aircraft
must make the determination of the effects of a particular PED on the
navigation and communication systems of the aircraft on which it is to be
operated. The operation of a PED is prohibited, unless the device is
specifically listed in section 91.21(b) (1) through (4). But, even if the
device is specifically accepted from the general prohibition on the use of
PED's, an operator may prohibit use of that PED. The use of all other PED's
is prohibited by regulation, unless pursuant to section 91.21(b)(5). The
operator determines that the operation of that device will not interfere
with the communication or navigation system of the aircraft on which it is
to be operated.
(6) Prohibiting the operation of any PED's during the takeoff and landing
phases of flight. It must be recognized that the potential for personal
injury to passengers is a paramount consideration as well as the
possibility of missing important safety announcements during these
important phases of flight. This is in addition to lessening the possible
interference that may arise during sterile cockpit operations (below 10,000
feet).
Page 3
AC 91.21-1A
10/02/00
Par 6
Page 3
(7) Prohibiting the operation of any PED's aboard aircraft, unless
otherwise authorized, which are classified as intentional radiators or
transmitters. These devices include, but are not limited to:
(i) Citizens band radios.
(ii) Cellular telephones.
(iii) Remote control devices.
b.
PED's designed to transmit have consideration in addition to paragraph 6a.
There are certain devices, which by their nature and design, transmit
intentionally. These include cellular telephones, citizens band radios,
remote control devices, etc. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
typically licenses these devices as land mobile devices. The FCC currently
prohibits the use and operation of cellular telephones while airborne. Its
primary concern is that a cellular telephone, while used airborne, would
have a much greater transmitting range than a land mobile unit. This could
result in serious interference to transmissions at other cell locations
since the system uses the same frequency several times within a market.
Since a cellular mobile telephone unit is capable of operating on all
assignable cellular frequencies, serious interference may also occur to
cellular systems in adjacent markets. The FAA supports this airborne
restriction for reasons of potential interference to critical aircraft
systems. Currently, the FAA does not prohibit use of cellular telephones in
aircraft while on the ground if the operator has determined that they will
not interfere with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft
on which they are to be used. An example might be their use at the gate or
during an extended wait on the ground, while awaiting a gate, when
specifically authorized by the captain. A cellular telephone will not be
authorized for use while the aircraft is being taxied for departure after
leaving the gate. The unit will be turned off and properly stowed,
otherwise it is possible that a signal from a ground cell could activate
it. Whatever procedures an operator elects to adopt should be clearly
spelled out in oral departure briefings and by written material provided to
each passenger to avoid passenger confusion.
c.
Telephones, which have been permanently installed in the aircraft, are
licensed as air-ground radiotelephone service frequencies. In addition,
they are installed and tested in accordance with the appropriate
certification and airworthiness standards. These devices are not considered
PED's provided they have been installed and tested by an FAA-approved
repair station or an air carrier's-approved maintenance organization and
are licensed by the FCC as air-ground units.
7.
MANUFACTURERS' TEST CRITERIA FOR PED's.
a.
Operators should use manufacturers' information, when provided, with each
device that informs the consumer of the conditions and limitations
associated with its use aboard aircraft.
b.
All portable electronic devices should be designed and tested in accordance
with appropriate emission control standards. Document Nos. RTCA/DO-160D,
Environmental Conditions and Test Procedures for Airborne Equipment, and
RTCA/DO-199, may constitute one acceptable method for meeting these
requirements. These documents may be purchased from: RTCA Secretariat, 1140
Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1020, Washington, DC 20036.
c.
Medical-Portable Electronic Devices (M-PED), such as automated external
defibrillators (AED), airborne patient medical telemonitoring (APMT)
equipment, etc., should be designed and tested in accordance with Section
21, Category M, of RTCA document No. RTCA/DO-160D. M-PED's that test within
the emission levels contained in this document, in all modes of operation
(i.e., standby, monitor, and/or transient operating conditions, as
appropriate), may be used onboard the aircraft without any further testing
by the operator. Equipment tested and found to exceed the Section 21,
Category M, emission levels are required to
Page 4
10/02/00
AC 91.21-1A
Page 4
Par 7
be evaluated in the operator's M-PED selected model aircraft for
electromagnetic interference (EMI) and radio frequency interference (RFI).
All navigation, communication, engine, and flight control systems will be
operating in the selected aircraft. The ground EMI/RFI evaluation should be
conducted with the M-PED equipment operating, and at the various locations
in the cabin where M-PED usage is expected (galley, passenger aisles,
etc.). If M-PED equipment can be operated at any location in the cabin,
then the worst-case locations (proximity to cable bundles, flight controls,
electronic and electrical bays, antennas, etc.) should be considered. Air
carriers planning to equip their aircraft with M-PED's will provide
evidence to the principal FAA inspector that the M-PED equipment meets the
RTCA/DO-160D Section 21, Category M, emission levels, or conducts the
ground EMI/RFI evaluation described above. Operators will incorporate
procedures into their maintenance program to determine the M-PED's
serviceability based on the equipment manufacturers' recommendations, to
include procedures for marking the date of the equipment's last inspection.
Operators will establish operational procedures that require crewmembers to
inform the PIC when the M-PED is removed from its storage for use.
NOTE: For those M-PED's using Lithium Sulfur Dioxide batteries (LiSO
2) as a power source, the batteries must be Technical Standard Order C-97
(TSO-C97) approved and labeled accordingly.
/s/
L. Nicholas Lacey
Director, Flight Standards Service
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure warning light |
>
>All this talk about electric pump operating lights prompts me to get
>comments on an idea I had: Put a pressure switch in the line between the
>mechanical pump and the carburetor or injector servo. When the fuel
>pressure drops below the switch point a latching relay is energized, turning
>on the electric pump. Of course, as soon as the electric pump starts
>delivering pressure the switch will turn back off, but the latching relay
>will keep the pump on. The hold circuit to the latching relay can be
>interrupted with the fuel pump switch, which would be of the on-off-on
>variety, one of the on positions being the "automatic" setting and the other
>a positive on. On master-on, turn the switch to the auto position,
>verifying that the pump turns on and stays on, then turn it off to shut it
>off for engine starting (just to reduce battery draw during cranking). Then
>turn it back to the auto position for the flight. The relay would also turn
>on an "electric pump operating" light, as otherwise there would be no way to
>know if the mechanical pump failed during flight. I think the extra
>complexity is worth it as it removes the pilot from a critical failure mode
>scenario. To assume the pilot will always remember to turn on the electric
>pump in case a sudden silence is a false assumption. My partner experienced
>just such a silence and he never tried the electric pump - in this case it
>wouldn't have done any good anyway, but the point remains that to rely on
>human performance in an emergency is a weak design philosophy.
This idea has sound foundations. On the same topic, many manufacturer's
-AND- builders install indicator lights to annunciate functionality
when in fact, the illuminated lamp only shows that the lamp is good
and a switch is ON. For example, any lamp wired to simply echo a
switch position for control of any accessory only guarantees that the
switch is ON, the circuit breaker is IN and the light bulb is GOOD.
If it is important that such lamps offer MORE assurance, the methodology
of installation needs more consideration. For example, pitot heater systems
on many RAC aircraft circulate heater current though a current detector.
Here's the po' mans version
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/CurrentSense.jpg
Use the magnetic reed switch to turn ON a lamp that say's
PITOT HEAT. If that lamp is off, the power to the heater is
OFF -or- the circuit is OPEN in spite of the fact that
pitot heat control switch is ON.
The same kind of sensor can be used on nav, landing and taxi
lights. Here the reed switch is used to keep a LAMP FAIL light
off.
Such a sensor in series with a fuel pump would at least assure
that the pump was drawing some kind of current and that the
annunicator light wasn't simply announcing that 14v was being
applied to an open circuit.
Of course, in the case of pumps, it's better to test and
annunicate proper operation as far downstream of the functionality
chain as possible . . . like Gary's suggestion above to
annunciate and control things base on pressure sensing.
When you contemplate any kind of annunciation, do the
failure mode effects analysis to see what that light REALLY
means and what it's shortcomings are for telling you
what you'd really like to know.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: current flow |
>
>
> >>The negative terminal is called that because electrons are negatively
>charged,
>
> >>and it has the excess. The positive terminal lacks electrons, and seeks
>them.
>
>
>This is always confusing to the non-electrical engineer. It comes about
>because before folks recognized that current was a flow of electrons, and
>were experimenting with batteries, they just picked one battery terminal as
>*positive* and one as *negative*. Could easily have picked it the other
>way around. Unfortunately, when they realized that the electrons actually
>flowed the other way from what they had picked, the only solution was to
>define the electron charge as negative. Everything else follows from that
>single unfortunate guess.
Even electrical engineers have problems when they
study from old texts which are perfectly "correct"
in their presentations but adopt the conventions
of popular writings in 1920. Virtually all modern
texts use the (-) terminal of a source as emitter of
electrons as "current". I have many books in my
library where the sense is reversed. This was quite
common before vacuum tubes. Electron mobility
was known and understood long before vacuum tubes
and is mentioned in the books that speak of current
as a flow opposite that of the electrons!
It makes sense that the (-) terminal is the source
of electrons since they carry what was also deemed
a "negative" charge. One can adopt either convention for the
purposes of studying things under the umbrella of Kirchoff's laws.
You simply need to be consistent throughout the study. Calling
the emitter of both CURRENT and electrons the (-) terminal for
any source maintains the consistency for electron current
flow and induced voltages. Consider what happens in the
discussions presented in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
In the figure on the first page, we see voltage across
an inductor (contactor coil) shown as +12 volts at the
top of the coil when the contactor is energized. During
this time, electrons are moving up from ground or - terminal
of battery to the top terminal that is connected to
the bus or + terminal of battery. We know that while
capacitors dynamically resist change of voltage, inductors
dynamically resist change of current. It follows then that
as the switch opens, the collapse of magnetic field tries
to SUSTAIN the flow of current. In this case, the normal
flow of electrons from the upper terminal of the coil
becomes a torrent of electrons in the same direction as
the switch opens. Hence the top of the coil becomes the
(-) terminal of a current source and we can measure a
negative going voltage of substantial amplitude at this
terminal with respect to ground.
It more than a matter of flipping the coin for
choosing which terminal of a battery is a current
source. We need to use the same convention for ALL sources
(and loads were the signs are reversed) so that
all pieces of the lego-set will mate together
without spinning the hon. Mr. Kirchoff in his
grave.
I've mentioned this before but it's always worth repeating.
My all time favorite publication on electron physics
is Electronic Fundamentals Circuits, Devices and
Applications by Thomas L. Floyd. New ones are $100
retail. Used ones are abundantly available for under
$10 with examples at:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/067521310X//103-6674777-4163850?condition=all
Don't worry about edition dates. They're ALL worth
the few dollars you'll pay for one. I keep two extra
copies on my shelves to give away to any visitors
(especially kids) who show an encouraging spark of
interest in this stuff.
There's also copy of a US Navy course in electronics
on the CD from my website which you can download
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/AEC8_0.zip
Unfortunately, these documents have a lot of
boiler-plate and the explanations are not nearly
as clear as Mr. Floyd's book . . . but it IS
free.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker buss bar |
PB circuit breakers are labeled LINE ane LOAD. Which side of the breaker is the
buss bar to be attached, and will the breaker trip should an overload occur if
the buss bar and wires are reversed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker buss bar |
Jim Lane wrote:
>
>PB circuit breakers are labeled LINE ane LOAD. Which side of the breaker is the
buss bar to be attached, and will the breaker trip should an overload occur
if the buss bar and wires are reversed?
>
Buss bar goes to LINE. LOAD goes to the load (light, pump, etc.).
Unless the breaker obeys some FAA reg instead of the laws of physics, I
can't think of a good reason why reversing the terminals would prevent
the breaker tripping.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cell phone antenna |
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
>
>>
>>It's is still illegal today as far as I know - you'll need an Air-Phone if
>>you want to have legal phone service while airborne or maybe one of them
>>Iridium satellite jobs.
>>jerb.
>
>
> Here's the memo I wrote for work, use at your own risk, I'm not a lawyer,
> your mileage may vary, etc.
The phones in common use today that most people call "cellular" phones are not
cellular (AMPS) phones by the definition of the FCC. They are PCS devices and
operate under different rules. As far as I am aware there is no prohibition
by the FCC from operating these devices in flight. If you are operating under
part 91 of the FARs and have determined that the device in question is not causing
interference with the flight and navigation equipment, I am not aware of
any reason the FAA would be unhappy either.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure warning light |
One should be able to accomplish this with just a $2. comparator circuit
in cases like mine where I already have an electric fuel pressure gauge
and also a computer controlled relay to feed power to the pump. From
memory I believe the electric sender feeds up to 5 volts to the Grand
Rapids engine monitor.
A certain Subaru converter specifies a pressure switch and an extra (and
complicated) relay for this purpose on his 38 psi fuel system. Actually
in that particular case it controls the second electric efi fuel pump. I
believe there were some problems with the first pressure switch that was
specified though and it seemed like a complicated way to achieve the
goal compared to a bit of silicon.
Ken
Gary Casey wrote:
>
> All this talk about electric pump operating lights prompts me to get
> comments on an idea I had: Put a pressure switch in the line between the
> mechanical pump and the carburetor or injector servo. When the fuel
> pressure drops below the switch point a latching relay is energized, turning
> on the electric pump. Of course, as soon as the electric pump starts
> delivering pressure the switch will turn back off, but the latching relay
> will keep the pump on. The hold circuit to the latching relay can be
> interrupted with the fuel pump switch, which would be of the on-off-on
> variety, one of the on positions being the "automatic" setting and the other
> a positive on. On master-on, turn the switch to the auto position,
> verifying that the pump turns on and stays on, then turn it off to shut it
> off for engine starting (just to reduce battery draw during cranking). Then
> turn it back to the auto position for the flight. The relay would also turn
> on an "electric pump operating" light, as otherwise there would be no way to
> know if the mechanical pump failed during flight. I think the extra
> complexity is worth it as it removes the pilot from a critical failure mode
> scenario. To assume the pilot will always remember to turn on the electric
> pump in case a sudden silence is a false assumption. My partner experienced
> just such a silence and he never tried the electric pump - in this case it
> wouldn't have done any good anyway, but the point remains that to rely on
> human performance in an emergency is a weak design philosophy.
>
> Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker buss bar |
>
>
>PB circuit breakers are labeled LINE ane LOAD. Which side of the breaker
>is the buss bar to be attached, and will the breaker trip should an
>overload occur if the buss bar and wires are reversed?
I'll have to ask my cb guru at Eaton about this. I believe the
housings are marked so that special breakers with trip annunciators
or external trip inputs get wired properly. For the plain vanilla,
two terminal, thermal breaker, I cannot think of any reason for it
to make a difference. I've wired them both ways and they've worked
fine. I'll confirm my hypothesis with someone who is in the business.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Listers: Does anyone have a CAD drawing of a basic RV-6 panel. I have
TurboCAD 4 and would like to start planning out panel using this. Please
contact me directly if you can assist. Thanks. Marty in Brentwood, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | status indicators and failure modes |
Robert Nuckolls makes a good point about status indicators and being sure you know
what they indicate and how they fail. An indicator light placed at the output
of the power switch for the fuel boost pump verifies only the switch, breaker,
and indicator itself. Adding a current-sensing relay additionally verifies
that the electrical circuit is complete and that current is flowing through
the pump. But it does not verify pump operation. Only a pressure sensor at
the output of the pump will verify actual pump operation. And that only tells
you that the pump is providing pressure, not that fuel is flowing into the engine.
Regardless, a pressure switch at the input to the carburetor or fuel injection
servo to operate a low-pressure indicator or perhaps provide input to the master
caution light verifies the operation of both mechanical and/or electric fuel
pump. This seems to me to make a lot more sense. To my way of thinking, the
interest is in the continued operation of the engine which requires proper fuel
pressure and flow. Sensing pressure at the input to the fuel metering system
verifies proper operation of both fuel pumps. Should the mechanical pump
fail one will get a warning light. Turning on the boost pump accompanied by the
fuel pressure warning light going off is positive indication of the proper
operation of the electric fuel pump.
An additional comment about relative reliability; I trust a switch to be more reliable
than a light bulb. The position of the fuel pump switch is, to me, a
more positive indication of whether the fuel pump is turned on than any indicator
light connected ahead of the pump. (This may not be true for LED indicators.)
Only actually sensing fuel pressure provides more information of use to
me in-flight.
And if the light comes on while the engine continues to run one can safely assume
that there is a problem with the low-fuel-pressure indicator system.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: status indicators and failure modes |
Can't you just SEE the pressure delta on the fuel pressure gauge when the
electric pump is operating?
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker buss (--he means bus) bar |
>>PB circuit breakers are labeled LINE and LOAD. Which side of the breaker
>>is the buss bar to be attached, and will the breaker trip should an
>>overload occur if the buss bar and wires are reversed?
>I'll have to ask my cb guru at Eaton about this. I believe the
>housings are marked so that special breakers with trip annunciators
>or external trip inputs get wired properly. ...Bob . . .
Bob et al:
[CSA Standard C22.2 No. 5-02, Molded Case Circuit Breakers, Molded Case
Switches and Circuit Breaker Enclosures: "Circuit breakers shall be marked
"line" and "load" unless the construction and the test results are
acceptable with the line and load connections reversed." In addition, clause
7.1.1.17 states that "... if a circuit breaker is not marked "line" and
"load", one sample of each set tested, or one additional sample, shall be
connected with the line and load connections reversed during the overload,
endurance and interrupting tests."]
So indeed, the plain vanilla variety may be reversible but it takes more CSA
testing to find out. Since the engineers are practical people, and the
manufacturing guys want the greatest commonality of parts. Why not simply
mark everything line and load?
Another issue as Bob notes, is the add-ons like indicators, output signals,
remote trips, etc. These almost always demand line-load polarity.
From a design approach almost every electro-mechanical device has some
preferred electrical direction. A circuit breaker is more complicated than a
fuse and when it catastrophically fails--the designer would like the hot
stuff to maintain the greatest distance from the cold stuff. "Close counts
in horse-shoes and high voltage."
From a physics point of view interrupting arcs demands knowing where the
line and load is (unless everything is perfectly symmetrical).
So there you have it. I don't know either.
Electrical puzzle of the day: A spiral two-wire cable (Hot, Neutral) accepts
a power plug on either end. A spiral three-wire cable (Hot, Neutral, and
Ground) accepts a power plug only on one end. Why?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
- James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
- Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: status indicators and failure modes |
>
>Can't you just SEE the pressure delta on the fuel pressure gauge when the
>electric pump is operating?
Many of airplanes I fly will show an increase of present fuel
pressure when the aux pump is turned on. Gages make poor warning
devices. If one likes to spend more time looking outside the
windows than inside, ACTIVE notification of failures is a
good thing to pursue for truly critical items.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
>
>Bob,
>
>I've been wiring my RV-7 per Z-11 and for convenience would like to add an
>Avionics Master Switch. I've read your article reguarding their necessity (or
>lack thereof) which included a schematic showing the switch wired between the
>Main Power Bus and the E-Buss (after the diode). I also read on page 11-3
>of the
>Connection, "The avionics master switch controls e-bus connection to main
>bus, selects an emergency mode e-bus feed directly from battery and also
>disables
>the starter circuits if the switch is not positioned to shut off the
>avionics". This sounds like you're combining the functions of the
>avionics master,
>e-bus alternate feed and bat/alt master switch into one switch. Is this
>correct? Could you direct me to a schematic showing this switch set up or
>explain it
>with switch type, etc. so an electrically challenged person (like me) can
>understand? Thanks for the help...............
This has been proposed many times. I prefer to keep the two power
paths to the e-bus as isolated and independent of each other as
practical. The single switch technique you propose makes for a
single point of failure for e-bus power.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Roll your own crowbar OV module |
| From: | Ralph Ketter <arizonahikers(at)juno.com> |
>>
>>I build my own OV crowbar module and it functions correctly except that
>>it operated in the 10-11 volt range. I triple checked the components
and
>>wiring. I tested the 1N4742A diode and it regulates at 12V. I changed
>>the 1.62K ohm resistor specified for a 14 volt system to 6.04K and the
>>circuit operates in the correct voltage range of 15.5-17 volts. Has
>>anyone else found this?
>
> With the 1.62K resistor in place, adjust the potentiometer to
> approximately mid range. Adjust the power supply to a point just
> below the trip point and then measure voltage at (1) + end of
> capacitor and (2) junction of zener diode and the 392 ohm
> resistor and tell us what you get.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
Thanks for the reply Bob,
Sorry I took so long with a response to your suggestion.
I did as you suggested. The pot is set to mid range. The resistor on
plus side of pot is 1.62K. The trip point is 10.4 volts.
Reading from capacitor (+ end) to the zener diode and 392 ohm resistor
junction measures +.436 volts.
Reading from ground to the same junction reads 7.6 volts across the
zener.
With the 1.62K resistor replaced with a 6.04K and the pot in the same
midrange position the trip point is 16.22 volts
Reading from capacitor (+ end) to the zener diode and 392 ohm resistor
junction measures +.538 volts.
Reading from ground to the same junction reads 7.36 volts across the
zener.
Ralph
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator configuration |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Manuel Bonniot (mbonniot(at)hotmail.com) on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 at 08:05:32
>
>Tuesday, January 6, 2004
>
>Manuel Bonniot
>
>,
>Email: mbonniot(at)hotmail.com
>Comments/Questions: Hello Bob,
>
>I am building a MCR 4S with a Rotax 912S, equipped for night flying.
>I will certainly use the scheme Z-13, that I find very attractive.
>But I need the SD8 to be permanently activated, to supply enough
>power in case I use of all the electrical equipments. Does it make
>a problem ?
>My other question is about the Ducati regulator : is it good to keep
>it (at least with wiring according to Z-16), or had I better throw
>it and use something else ?
I'm told that the SD-8 will not deliver rated current at the
vacuum pump speeds on the Rotax engines. There's nothing wrong
with running two alternators to meet normal running loads. Twin
engine aircraft do it all the time. I'm not aware of any popular
replacements for the Ducati regulator supplied with Rotax engines.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: status indicators and failure modes |
Neil Clayton wrote:
>
> Can't you just SEE the pressure delta on the fuel pressure gauge when the
> electric pump is operating?
Not necessarily. Some (most?) fuel pumps have a bypass valve that opens between
output and input to maintain a fixed fuel pressure at the output of the pump.
Carburetors have a minimum and maximum operating pressure and are pretty forgiving.
Pressure carburetors and the Bendix RSA fuel servo compensate for fuel
inlet pressure changes which allows you to use unregulated fuel pumps. The
fuel metering servo used with Continental engines is very sensitive to fuel pressure
changes and therefore the fuel pumps for Continental engines must maintain
a fixed pressure. You should never see a fuel pressure change at the input
to the fuel metering system on a Continental engine.
BTW, this is why you can kill a Continental fuel-injected engine at low power settings
by turning the boost pump to the high position. The extra fuel pressure
causes the mixture to go way rich to the point where the engine quits running.
And then there is the other issue of noticing a low or high fuel pressure indication.
Sometimes you are just looking outside and don't see the problem. I really
like audio alerting for critical engine parameters. Even a Sonalert(tm)
connected to the master caution light is a win.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Trim, flap Relay |
I'm in search for the perfect combination dual axis trim and flap relay for my
Infinity stick grips in I will be operating pitch and roll trim, and electric
flaps from the small stick grip switches. Infinity sells both individual relays
and a combo unit that will do just what I am needing, but for 107 dollars.
I will also be adding the MAC speed controllers to control the MAC speed for trimming
both axis.
Has anyone tried the Infinity combo relay unit, or, know of a better unit.
Thanks,
Jim
Harmon Rocket II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Nalevanko <tom(at)mstay.com> |
| Subject: | Tachometer Sensor Info Request |
I would appreciate any info that anyone can provide on the following.
Here is the story. I recently purchased a Teledyne Continental IO-550N
aircraft engine and installed at the bottom of its Right magneto is a
tach sensor. The 3 wire leads from the sensor (blue, black, red) that
terminate in a Molex type connector have a tag with the following info:
Spirent Systems Wichita Inc.
8710 E 32nd St. N
Wichita, KS 67226
P/N 0406-005
FSCM 59551
CUST P/N 655862 REV N/C
Date 4/21/03
S/N 120866
----------------------
The Teledyne Continental installation manual only notes "Electrical
Tachometer Standard Signal".
I would like info on this device to see if I can use it with my ACS2002
Engine Monitor; the alternative is to remove it and replace it with the
ACS sensor. But, due to laziness (magneto would have to be removed and
part of upper induction system), I would rather not do this.
I would think that this is a standard Hall sensor and if 5 volts is
applied, a positive square wave is generated at the frequency of the
engine RPMs.
Would appreciate any info and I am also pursuing other avenues of info
and will post results here. Other builders, for example on the Lancair
list, seem to have this same question and answering it once and for all
would be beneficial to a lot of people.
Thanks,
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | radio ariel placement |
I would like to put my 45 bent RAMI radio antenna on the belley about its
own length from one of the gear legs which is oriented in approvimately the
same plane. (Its an RV9a.) Is this likely to present serious radio problems?
Thanks, Steve.
PS The transponder will be a similar distance from the other gear leg
pointing vertically down.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires at each end.
What is a good labelling system?
Thanks
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wire crimp crushing |
What's the accepted method to crush a crimp relative to the axial joint?
Thanks
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
> As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires
> at each end.
> What is a good labelling system?
Neil,
I printed sheets of wire lables in 6 point font, cut them up as needed, then
tucked the labels under clear shrink wrap. It's a bit messy, but it works.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator configuration |
I'm not aware of any popular
> replacements for the Ducati regulator supplied with Rotax engines.
>
>
Hi Bob, Manuel and all
Some months ago we started a survey of the Ducati regulator supplied by
Rotax. Jerome's students are presently completing a thermal study. Their
report is not yet definitive but it appears the Ducati rectifier/regulator
reaches unacceptable temperatures when used for any length of time at
anything above 50-60 % rated power.
On the other hand, after getting good feed back from the Schike GR 4
regulator, we have the feeling it could be a usable replacement. The
advertised continuous rated current is 16 amps, confirmed by our measures,
and without excessive heating. I'm intending to install a Schicke in our
project.
http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dframe.htm
Only in German. For reasons unknown to me, the GR 4 doesn't appear on their
website but Herr Schicke readily sent the specs.
I hope I'll be able to make a short translation of the complete report
within the next few weeks.
FWIW
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
The Kroy 3000 printer and wire label printing system is excellent.
Prints directly from computer to shrink-tubing or wrap.
Kenneth Melvin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Slade
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wire labels
> As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires
> at each end.
> What is a good labelling system?
Neil,
I printed sheets of wire lables in 6 point font, cut them up as needed,
then
tucked the labels under clear shrink wrap. It's a bit messy, but it
works.
John
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax alternator configuration |
Look for the "Key West" regulator carried by Aircraft Spruce, Leading Edge
and most Rotax parts distrubutors..........better than the Ducati.
Sid
---------------------
I'm not aware of any popular replacements for the Ducati regulator supplied with
Rotax engines.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Has anyone used these in an airplane? I've not actually seen one, but they
are supposed to be able to put out a fair amount of light for not much in
the way of cost in amps. There is also a cousin to these and to EL strip
lighting. It is EL wire. There are lots of apps for it if you like to
attract attention in your car!
We are looking for a good source of inexpensive EL strips to use for under
the glare shield for panel flood lighting.
Any info would be appreciated on either product. Also a good source for EL
strips.
Many thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
I put 4 of them in my plane, and they are pretty neat. They
put out quite a bit of light at night, and hardly nothing
in the daylight.
If you mouse over the picture of the passenger interior,
the picture will change to the night time version.
http://home.mn.rr.com/brusehaver/cozy_page.html
I mounted them under the longerons.
wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone used these in an airplane? I've not actually seen one, but
> they
> are supposed to be able to put out a fair amount of light for not much in
> the way of cost in amps. There is also a cousin to these and to EL strip
> lighting. It is EL wire. There are lots of apps for it if you like to
> attract attention in your car!
>
> We are looking for a good source of inexpensive EL strips to use for
> under
> the glare shield for panel flood lighting.
>
> Any info would be appreciated on either product. Also a good source for
> EL
> strips.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator configuration |
>
>Look for the "Key West" regulator carried by Aircraft Spruce, Leading Edge
>and most Rotax parts distrubutors..........better than the Ducati.
>Sid
Are those folks still around? I'd been told by someone that they were
out of business. Great data-point. Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire crimp crushing |
>
>What's the accepted method to crush a crimp relative to the axial joint?
>
>Thanks
>Neil
I'm mystified . . . If you're talking about crimp tools for
terminals on the ends of wires, see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires at each end.
>What is a good labelling system?
>
>Thanks
>Neil
B&C offers a kit or individual pieces of clear heatshrink
that can be used as shown in this picture:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s817c.jpg
Print your wire labels onto AVERY label material
(full sheets from office supply).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Out of town quite a bit for next 10 days. |
I'm out of here 6:30A tomorrow for California. I'll be
visiting Concord to get material on a battery failures
study I'm doing at RAC . . . also looking for some personal
education on the inner workings of RG batteries.
Will be home one day and then off again for the Nashville
seminar next Sat, Sunday. We get back to Wichita Sunday
evening and I'm out again Monday morning for a consulting
task in Idaho with one of my local clients. Won't be back
in my office until a week from Wednesday.
I'll have the laptop with me and if any of our hotels
offer high speed Internet connections, I'll try to check
in. Otherwise, please know that I'm not being snooty . . .
just hard to find for a bit.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Out of town quite a bit for next 10 days. |
Thanks, Bob, and welcome to my neck of the woods. If you need some
restaurant suggestions, just let me know off-line so as to keep the threads
more or less on-topic. :-0
best, Cory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Out of town quite a bit for next 10 days.
>
> I'm out of here 6:30A tomorrow for California. I'll be
> visiting Concord to get material on a battery failures
> study I'm doing at RAC . . . also looking for some personal
> education on the inner workings of RG batteries.
>
> Will be home one day and then off again for the Nashville
> seminar next Sat, Sunday. We get back to Wichita Sunday
> evening and I'm out again Monday morning for a consulting
> task in Idaho with one of my local clients. Won't be back
> in my office until a week from Wednesday.
>
> I'll have the laptop with me and if any of our hotels
> offer high speed Internet connections, I'll try to check
> in. Otherwise, please know that I'm not being snooty . . .
> just hard to find for a bit.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
John Schroeder wrote:
> We are looking for a good source of inexpensive EL strips to use for under
> the glare shield for panel flood lighting.
>
> Any info would be appreciated on either product. Also a good source for EL
> strips.
I don't know where you can get the raw strips but I did install two from Aero Enhancements (http://www.aeroenhance.com/) under the eyebrow for my instrument panel on my CJ6A. It was wonderful for flood-lighting the panel and the color closely matched the florescent paint on the stock instruments. (the CJ6A normally uses a pair of UV spotlights to cause the instruments to glow yellow-green.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> from Aero Enhancements (http://www.aeroenhance.com/) under the
Turns out that URL is no longer valid but I did find this one:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/EL-Panel1.htm
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
John,
For a cheap source of EL strips, check out All Electronics at http://www.allelectronics.com/ They have 1"by 12" EL strips for $6.00 each. I have found that the DB25 style gold plated pins fit the connector, which is fragile. The same company carries DC to AC inverters, but I did not find it today with a brief search. I decided against EL lighting, because of the need for an inverter, and thus less reliability compared to LED sources. LED sources are getting very efficient, and for my map light aimed at the lap, I will be using Luxeon Stars, which run $12 to $14, and can be had in white, red, and other colors, with and without an epoxy lens. With the lens, the unit is 1" square, and draws one watt. This works out to 350 ma at about 3 volts, so you need a 30 ohm resistor if you want to run only one from the 14 volt battery. This also works well with a dimmer.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire crimp crushing |
Sorry....I described it poorly. I meant this; A PIDG terminal consists of a
crushable tube with a seam running along it axially, plus the tab.
When I use an el-cheapo crimping tool I get all sorts of odd crimped
shapes. Sometimes one side if the seam rides up over the other. Sometimes
the seam actually separates, creating two minitubes, each with a few
strands of wire in them. And they're the better results! Is it 'cos I'm
using an e-cheapo tool? I'm sure there some published standard as to what a
finished crimp should look like.
Neil
At 10:53 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >What's the accepted method to crush a crimp relative to the axial joint?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Neil
>
> I'm mystified . . . If you're talking about crimp tools for
> terminals on the ends of wires, see:
>
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Jim -
We also want to have a couple of map lights and are looking at some boat
chart lights. As always, the boat stuff is pricey - sometimes more than
aircraft equipment (solid brass, stainless steel ... )
Did you buy the light with the LED already installed?
Or did you modify a fixture?
Is it a gooseneck? and How long?
Sources?
Many thanks for the EL info. I'll check it out.
Cheers,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire crimp crushing |
Neil Clayton wrote:
> shapes. Sometimes one side if the seam rides up over the other. Sometimes
> the seam actually separates, creating two minitubes, each with a few
> strands of wire in them. And they're the better results! Is it 'cos I'm
> using an e-cheapo tool?
Yes. Buy a decent crimper from Bob. His price is right and the tool works well.
Not only have I rewired a couple of airplanes but I am in the middle of rewiring
a rather large boat. A good crimp tool is worth its weight in gold.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
04/26/2004 12:24:43 PM,
Serialize complete at 04/26/2004 12:24:43 PM
Before you commit to CCFL lighting, you
might want to investigate the RFI associated
with them and the required inverter.
Ira N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | trim motor braking |
Gentlemen,
I've modified an electric elevator trim scheme (originally designed by Jim
Dutton) and installed it in my Glasair. I'm utilizing a DC reversible
linear actuator to operate a bellcrank, much like the stock
Stoddard-Hamilton design. It seems to work very well, meaning that it
imparts the same range of forces to the trim springs that the original
manual trim mechanism did. The airplane hasn't yet flown, but I see no
reason why it won't be fine. I notice one area that could be improved: The
motor doesn't stop instantly when the current is cut off. It "coasts"
briefly. I know there is an electrical way to make the motor stop quickly
when the current goes off, but I don't yet have any experience in this area.
I've read about "magnetic braking" and "DC motor braking", but I'm not sure
how to implement this feature. Suggestions?
Regards,
Troy Scott
Glasair Super IISRG, N360TS
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
I would like to ask the group where you might recommend to purchase a RG
battery online. I am looking to replace an existing PowerSonic PS-12180 NB
battery.
Thanks, Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trim motor braking |
You just have to set it up so the motor is shorted when it is off. I
don't know how you are controlling it or I could be more specific.
Here are several trim circuits that Bob posted recently:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/PitchTrim.pdf
Note that in all cases when everything is off, the trim motor is shorted.
Dick Tasker
Troy Scott wrote:
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I've modified an electric elevator trim scheme (originally designed by Jim
>Dutton) and installed it in my Glasair. I'm utilizing a DC reversible
>linear actuator to operate a bellcrank, much like the stock
>Stoddard-Hamilton design. It seems to work very well, meaning that it
>imparts the same range of forces to the trim springs that the original
>manual trim mechanism did. The airplane hasn't yet flown, but I see no
>reason why it won't be fine. I notice one area that could be improved: The
>motor doesn't stop instantly when the current is cut off. It "coasts"
>briefly. I know there is an electrical way to make the motor stop quickly
>when the current goes off, but I don't yet have any experience in this area.
>I've read about "magnetic braking" and "DC motor braking", but I'm not sure
>how to implement this feature. Suggestions?
>
>Regards,
>Troy Scott
>Glasair Super IISRG, N360TS
>tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Neil Clayton
<>
4/26/2004
Hello Neil, There are many different ways to skin this cat. Here is one of
the simplest and cheapest -- very durable.
1) Print labels on plain printer paper in small type (or to suit wire
diameter) with either Microsoft Word or Excel. You can copy and paste to generate
many dozens of labels on one sheet of paper.
2) Cut the labels off the sheet one at a time with a scissors as you need
them. Two line labels work best for me.
3) Crimp roll the cut off label a bit along their length around a round
toothpick or piece of wire.
4) Cut off a piece of clear shrink tube about a 1/4 -- 3/8 inch longer on
each end than the length of the label. Choose a size of shrink tube that will
squeeze down tight on the wire when heated.
5) Stuff the cut off and curled label into the shrink tube -- a straightened
out large size paper clip (or other poking tool) can be used to center the
label lengthwise in the piece of shrink tube.
(Actually I normally cut off the piece of shrink tube before I cut the label
off so that once I cut the label off the large paper sheet I can curl the
label and stuff it in the tube without ever setting the teeny label down).
6) Slide the shrink tube with the label curled inside into position on the
wire -- preferably before you crimp on the terminal unless you just want
practice in cutting off and replacing terminals.
7) Heat the shrink tube with a heat gun. Admire. Move on to the next label
needed. Pretty soon you realize that you can set up several labels and shrink
them all with one heating of the heat gun.
A tip: If you are using multiple wire connectors like AMP Mate-n-Lock or
similar consider positioning the labels at different places along the various
wires so that you don't wind up with all the shrink tubes clumped together.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
Digikey has good prices on Panasonic batteries. Take a look at this
page for a 17Ah. They're only$ 23.70 if you order 160 of them, but
$34.56 isn't bad either if you just want one.
Joel Harding
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?
Ref=258389&Site=US&Cat=30147394
On Apr 26, 2004, at 5:59 PM, ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I would like to ask the group where you might recommend to purchase a
> RG
> battery online. I am looking to replace an existing PowerSonic
> PS-12180 NB
> battery.
>
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RG Battery CCA ? |
One more question. How do you determine the CCA on a PowerSonic 12 volt, 18
Ah battery? The P/N is Ps-12180.
Thanks, Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
Save yourself a lot of extra work and hassle.... get yourself a Kroy TM-600 Shrink
Tube Printer! Label your wires easily and when your wiring is complete, sell
the thing on E-Bay.
I got one on E-Bay for $60 (with the shrink tube supplies). Laser quality printer
will print letters/numeric directly on the shrink tube (1/8", 3/16", and
1/4" tubing).
No fuss, no muss. I will be selling mine very soon now that my wiring is complete.
Only way to go....
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Battery CCA ? |
ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> One more question. How do you determine the CCA on a PowerSonic 12 volt, 18
> Ah battery? The P/N is Ps-12180.
Are you guys sure that the Powersonic batteries are AGM and not Gel-Cells? Both
are sealed but behave very differently and require different charging regimens.
AGMs have much lower internal resistance which means less voltage sag under
heavy loads which makes them good for starting. Gells will produce more charge/discharge
cycles for deep discharges when properly charged than will AGM
which makes them good for battery power for your avionics should the alternator
fail. They require different absorption and float voltages during charging.
AGMs can be charged without too much trouble using the same voltages as used
for flooded-cell lead-acid batteries.
BTW, some of the best information about battery type and charging can be found
at:
http://www.amplepower.com/
This site is to boaters and RV-ers (the rolling kind) what the Aeroelectric Connection
is to airplane builders.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
Go to www.froogle.com and put the part number you are looking for in the
search window. It works great!
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Harding
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG Batteries Where to buy online?
Digikey has good prices on Panasonic batteries. Take a look at this
page for a 17Ah. They're only$ 23.70 if you order 160 of them, but
$34.56 isn't bad either if you just want one.
Joel Harding
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?
Ref=258389&Site=US&Cat=30147394
On Apr 26, 2004, at 5:59 PM, ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I would like to ask the group where you might recommend to purchase a
> RG
> battery online. I am looking to replace an existing PowerSonic
> PS-12180 NB
> battery.
>
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
I just thought of an additional step that could make the whole job a bit
easier.
I print a lot of labels for shipping my model plans sets. I often ship
by priority mail, and pick up the free Priority mail labels from the
post office.
They have a sticky back...so, on a hunch, I cut one to wire label size,
peeled the back off and stuck it around the insulation on a wire I have
sitting here (my trackball cable! About the same size as an insulated
20 gauge wire).
It sticks great!
So, to keep it in place while you cut and install the shrink tubing, I
would suggest printing on these free labels, then cutting off what you
need. They hold very well on the wire until you get the clear shrink
tubing over them...in fact, I just tried to take it off, and it tore in
little pieces trying.
If you don't want to bankrupt the post office by taking home their free
labels, you can buy the label stock with the sticky backs at office
supplies stores...they come in various sizes...the sheets I use from
Office Depot are letter size, and very bright white printing surface.
Make for very high contrast printing.
Harley Dixon
BAKEROCB(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Neil Clayton
>
>
><end.
>What is a good labelling system?Thanks Neil>>
>
>4/26/2004
>
>Hello Neil, There are many different ways to skin this cat. Here is one of
>the simplest and cheapest -- very durable.
>
>1) Print labels on plain printer paper in small type (or to suit wire
>diameter) with either Microsoft Word or Excel. You can copy and paste to generate
>many dozens of labels on one sheet of paper.
>
>2) Cut the labels off the sheet one at a time with a scissors as you need
>them. Two line labels work best for me.
>
>3) Crimp roll the cut off label a bit along their length around a round
>toothpick or piece of wire.
>
>4) Cut off a piece of clear shrink tube about a 1/4 -- 3/8 inch longer on
>each end than the length of the label. Choose a size of shrink tube that will
>squeeze down tight on the wire when heated.
>
>5) Stuff the cut off and curled label into the shrink tube -- a straightened
>out large size paper clip (or other poking tool) can be used to center the
>label lengthwise in the piece of shrink tube.
>
>(Actually I normally cut off the piece of shrink tube before I cut the label
>off so that once I cut the label off the large paper sheet I can curl the
>label and stuff it in the tube without ever setting the teeny label down).
>
>6) Slide the shrink tube with the label curled inside into position on the
>wire -- preferably before you crimp on the terminal unless you just want
>practice in cutting off and replacing terminals.
>
>7) Heat the shrink tube with a heat gun. Admire. Move on to the next label
>needed. Pretty soon you realize that you can set up several labels and shrink
>them all with one heating of the heat gun.
>
>A tip: If you are using multiple wire connectors like AMP Mate-n-Lock or
>similar consider positioning the labels at different places along the various
>wires so that you don't wind up with all the shrink tubes clumped together.
>
>'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Durakovich <ddurakovich(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
Try these guys: www.glowire.com
The 4 LED cluster is truly awesome! Runs directly off of 12V too.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Battery CCA ? |
Ah, so maybe Gells and RG cells are not the same thing?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG Battery CCA ?
>
> ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > One more question. How do you determine the CCA on a PowerSonic 12 volt,
18
> > Ah battery? The P/N is Ps-12180.
>
> Are you guys sure that the Powersonic batteries are AGM and not Gel-Cells?
Both are sealed but behave very differently and require different charging
regimens. AGMs have much lower internal resistance which means less voltage
sag under heavy loads which makes them good for starting. Gells will
produce more charge/discharge cycles for deep discharges when properly
charged than will AGM which makes them good for battery power for your
avionics should the alternator fail. They require different absorption and
float voltages during charging. AGMs can be charged without too much
trouble using the same voltages as used for flooded-cell lead-acid
batteries.
>
> BTW, some of the best information about battery type and charging can be
found at:
>
> http://www.amplepower.com/
>
> This site is to boaters and RV-ers (the rolling kind) what the
Aeroelectric Connection is to airplane builders.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Battery CCA ? |
Bill Maxwell wrote:
>
> Ah, so maybe Gells and RG cells are not the same thing?
Gel-cell is RG (recombinant gas)
AGM is RG
Both types are sealed and also called VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid), the valve
is just an overpressure relief valve that will pop-off and release pressure
if you abuse the battery and make it gas faster than the gasses, hydrogen and
oxygen, will recombine.
The difference is in construction. AGM stands for absorbed glass mat. The liquid
electrolyte (yes, liquid) is held in a thin porous fiberglass mat that separates
the lead plates and acts as an insulator. It allows the plates to be very
close together so you can pack a lot of power into a smaller package. Often
the lead plates are made out of lead foil and rolled up with the glass mat.
AGMs are also called "starved electrolyte" because the mat holds very little
electrolyte. The chemistry is almost identical to standard flooded-cell lead-acid
batteries and can use the same charging voltages.
The killer for AGMs is to overcharge them after they have reached full charge.
They can generate gas faster than they can recombine the gas and pop off their
relief valves. The water is then lost along with battery capacity.
You can pull a lot of current out of an AGM battery quickly which makes even small
ones good for engine starting.
Gel-Cells use an electrolyte that has been turned into a paste that is then held
between the lead plates using a more conventional insulator. Gel-Cells tend
to have lower capacity for their size and weight but they can tolerate deep discharges
better than can AGMs. Gel-Cells have a much higher internal resistance
which makes their output voltage sag more under load. Gel-Cells make poor
starting batteries unless they are oversized for the application. If you want
to provide 4-5 hours of battery capacity to power your panel (not a bad idea
if you have 4-5 hours of fuel and plan to fly IFR) then a gel-cell may be sufficiently
oversized to be adequate as a starting battery as well.
Gel-Cells use different charging voltages and using a stock voltage regulator set
for flooded-cell batteries will probably damage your gel-cells in the long
run as its charging voltage is set too high.
The other thing to consider is that charging voltages need to be adjusted for battery
temperature if you are using a sealed battery. Flooded cell batteries
can be abused through overcharging without damage more than can sealed batteries.
Have I confused everyone enough yet?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Trim speed control |
I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim tab. I
plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired together and
to control the trim speed.
A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the above
need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
Thanks,
Jim
HRII
I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
installation at:
http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Jim
Whose stick grips are you planning on using? If you use the new RAC 305 or 307
grips, you can eliminate the need for relays. The hat switch used in these grips
is rated at 15 amps. Typical current through the hat switch for the servos
is only 0.5 amp. This reduces wiring complexity as you then only need a (less
expensive) speed controller for your trim servos. I looked into the Mac controller,
but I do not like the idea that this system allows for "first come, first
serve" control of the flaps and trim servos. I prefer to use a 3 position
toggle switch to control who's stick grip is "live" at any time.
This method has the advantage of giving the pilot positive control over who is
controlling the flaps and trim at any time. The third position (OFF) allows the
flaps and trim to be disabled if need be. I can email you a copy of my flap
wiring schematic if you care to see it.
Charlie Kuss
>
>I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim tab.
I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired together
and to control the trim speed.
>A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
>However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the above
need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
>Thanks,
>Jim
>HRII
>
> I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
> installation at:
>
> http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
>
> The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
> a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
> speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
>
> I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
> the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
> right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
> of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
> voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Kroy 3000 pricing |
Someone recently mentioned using the Kroy K-3000-PC shrink tube printer on the
list. I'm curious as to what members who own this piece of equipment paid for
it and where they purchased it? I'd also like comments as to your opinion of it's
usefulness.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Does anyone on the list have experience using the capacitive type fuel
level probes with auto fuel? I keep hearing that fuel additives,
especially ethanol, can create wildly erroneous readings. I haven't
installed mine yet and am wondering whether to switch to the float type.
Winston Ellis
Zenith 701/Suzuki
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Does anyone on the list have experience using the capacitive type fuel
level probes with auto fuel? I keep hearing that fuel additives,
especially ethanol, can create wildly erroneous readings. I haven't
installed mine yet and am wondering whether to switch to the float type.
I have a friend who uses both types of fuel in his RV7A (Subaru) and has that
problem. He plans to change to the float type senders.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Trim speed control |
Jim,
I can not view your schematic, is the address below correct ?
Thanks
Jeff.
-->
I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim tab.
I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired
together and to control the trim speed.
A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N. However,the link
no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the above need? In
particular, I like the flap position controlled switch. Thanks, Jim HRII
I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
installation at:
http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing |
One source is a fellow named Don, at 1 800 304-9043. I hope to get a price
from him later today. The internet has them in various sites for 149.00,
the cartridges are 30 each for 230 narrow 1 inch labels that stick on. See
http://www.kroy.com/industrial/index.htm
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Kroy 3000 pricing
>
> Someone recently mentioned using the Kroy K-3000-PC shrink tube printer on
the list. I'm curious as to what members who own this piece of equipment
paid for it and where they purchased it? I'd also like comments as to your
opinion of it's usefulness.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Dave -
I have a bunch of LED/Glow sites, but this one is really good.
Beside looking at EL strips for panel floods (under the glare shield), we
also are looking for LED lights for cabin dome, battery compartment and
baggage compartment. Have you installed the 4 LED cluster in an airplane
or car yet?
I found some 12 LED strips (1 inch apart) that really pur out the light.
The problem there is protecting them from head knockers, bags, etc.. If
you happen to know of a source for a clear lexan/metal or similar
extrusion to house them, I'd appreciate knowing about what you find.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers,
John
> The 4 LED cluster is truly awesome! Runs directly off of 12V too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello,
I'm currently detailing my already flying Glastar and changed over to Visio
as I'm better used to it, thanks to Chad I have many of the needed symbols,
I'm currently looking at getting the symbols for the audio parts
phone/mic/PTT symbols.
Anybody out there which has them in use/made?
Many thanks for your help!
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
There is a very recent discussion on the Blue Mountain Avionics discussion
list about capacitive probes and auto gas. It seems that the probes have to
be calibrated for the type of fuel being used, which causes lots of error or
inconvenience if you want to switch between 100LL and autogas. Maybe it
would work if you used one type of fuel in one tank and another in the other
tank.
To see the discussion, go to bluemountainavionics.com, then to the
discussion list and search on the last day or last weeks postings.
Terry
RV-8A with capacitive probes & Blue Mountain EFIS
Wiring
Does anyone on the list have experience using the capacitive type fuel
level probes with auto fuel? I keep hearing that fuel additives,
especially ethanol, can create wildly erroneous readings. I haven't
installed mine yet and am wondering whether to switch to the float type.
I have a friend who uses both types of fuel in his RV7A (Subaru) and has
that
problem. He plans to change to the float type senders.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visio Symbols |
If you tell me which ones you're after based on one of Bob's DWG/DXF files I
can add them to the Visio stencil I made. It's due for an update anyway; I've
made some minor modifications to handle my electrical system layout.
Also, I haven't done this yet, but at some point I need to go through and
correct all of the text labels. With some of the parts you just click on the
part and start typing. With others you have to click a second time to select
the "inner" object. I want to fix that. It's just a pain in the rear...
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm currently detailing my already flying Glastar and changed over to Visio
> as I'm better used to it, thanks to Chad I have many of the needed symbols,
> I'm currently looking at getting the symbols for the audio parts
> phone/mic/PTT symbols.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
> etc.. If
> you happen to know of a source for a clear
lexan/metal or similar
> extrusion to house them, I'd appreciate knowing
about what you find.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
Here's a trick I worked up. You can take the single
packaged LED from www.superbrightled.com and package
them directly into 1/4"
plexiglass/lexan/wood/whatever. Just use and
appropriate sized drill bit (I believe I used
3/16"), and glue them in with some model glue.
Solder the lead in series with resistors in whatever
configuration you feel is appropriate, and pot the
back end to a solid mass with epoxy/shoe goo/whatever.
It makes for some interesting packaging options.
Basically, whatever your heart so desires. I was
going to do a 1/2" wide by 4" tall tail light, but
I've since decide to place the tail lights on the
wingtips like the canards do. Makes the wiring so
much simpler.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Jim;
In trying to access older files posted by Bob K if you replace the
numeric part of the link with "aeroelectric.com" (without the quotes)
they usually work. These changes took place when he changed servers a
while back. In the particular case you've cited however, the word trim
should also not be repeated. I you go to
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/ you can look at the list of all
articles readily available. ("trim4" does not appear in the list, but
"trim", "trim.pdf", and "trim2.pdf" do)
Bob McC
Jim Stone wrote:
>
>I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim tab.
I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired together
and to control the trim speed.
>A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
>However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the above
need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
>Thanks,
>Jim
>HRII
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visio Symbols |
Hello Chad,
the text problem is not so anoying, what I'm looking at currently are the
parts from the seminar wirebook 6.1 Audio Panel, plugs for MIC and phones
symbol as well as the PTT Button.
More or less, most of the symbols in this series of drawings are needed e.g.
Dimmer, the ~ symbol, fuel flow transcducer etc.
Many thanks for your help!
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Robinson" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Visio Symbols
>
> If you tell me which ones you're after based on one of Bob's DWG/DXF files
I
> can add them to the Visio stencil I made. It's due for an update anyway;
I've
> made some minor modifications to handle my electrical system layout.
>
> Also, I haven't done this yet, but at some point I need to go through and
> correct all of the text labels. With some of the parts you just click on
the
> part and start typing. With others you have to click a second time to
select
> the "inner" object. I want to fix that. It's just a pain in the rear...
>
> Werner Schneider wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm currently detailing my already flying Glastar and changed over to
Visio
> > as I'm better used to it, thanks to Chad I have many of the needed
symbols,
> > I'm currently looking at getting the symbols for the audio parts
> > phone/mic/PTT symbols.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | electric trim switches |
Bruce,
Regarding the toggle switches needed to allow the pilot to have absolute control
of who's stick grips are "live" for electric flaps I had thought that these
items were special order only items. I've searched some more & have found both
of these items IN STOCK at Mouser Electronics in the NKK brand. These are
considerably cheaper than the quote from Waytek for the Carling switches. I'm
ordering 1 of each for my project.
3 pole double throw ON/OFF/ON toggle switches with 1/4" fast on terminals
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&handler=data.listcategory&Ntt=*633S33F*&terms=633-S33F&Dk=1&D=*633S33F*&N=0&crc=true
4 pole double throw ON/OFF/ON toggle switch with 1/4" fast on terminals
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&handler=data.listcategory&Ntt=*633S43F*&terms=633-S43F&Dk=1&D=*633S43F*&N=0&crc=true
FYI These switches will cosmetically & electrically match the Carling switches
sold by B & C and other vendors. I found the Waytek is much cheaper than B &
C for the same Carling toggle switches. However, I ordered the 2-10 style switches
from B & C because Waytek doesn't carry those items.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Can I get a copy?
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Charlie Kuss
>To: jschroeder(at)perigee.net
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric trim switches
>
>
>
>
>John
> Here you go. This switch allows pilot, copilot or OFF for the flap
>circuit. The power must be switched because there is a possibility of
>the WHITE or WHITE/BLUE wires (between the relays and the switch)
>shorting to ground. If this happens, a flap runaway would result. If
>the power was not switched, choosing the OFF position would not work to
>stop the runaway. A 4 pole version of this switch is used to do the same
>thing on a 2 axis electric trim system. I'm still finalizing the
>schematic for that circuit.
>Charlie
>
>
>>
>>Charlie -
>>
>>I have AutoCAD 200LT and would love to get a file of the flap
>circuitry.
>>
>>Many hanks,
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>> If you have > AutoCAD or another program that reads DWG files, I can
>>> email you a copy of my electric flap circuit. Seeing this circuit
>should
>>> aid in understanding how these switches are used.
>>> Charlie Kuss
>>
>>
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mjheinen(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing |
http://members.tripod.com/~HANOVER_TECHNICAL/index.html
K3000-PC - $140.95 Buy 15 supply cartridges at the standard
discounted price and we'll give you a new Kroy K3000 label
and wire marker printer at NO CHARGE! (except shipping)
I got mine this way. It works great. Any black,white,grey graphic or font that
is on your computer you can use. They have various lables, wire wrap and heat
shrink tubes available. You might get together with your other builders in your
area and split the cost.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hi Charlie -
If one is going to go for the more expensive and probably the easiest way
to get labelling on to wires, I'd look at the Kroy 2500. It can do wire
wraps that are designed for the printer and are fairly well indestructible
when applied to the wire. If you want to go the shrink tubing way, it also
has the ability to print on several sizes of tubing. Of course, you have
to use the cartridges designed for the 2500. If you have no need for the
machine after you are finished wiring - sell it on eBay.
The 2500 runs about $250 - 280 for a new one or a good used one. The
problem is that Kroy quit making them and are very late getting the
replacement (the 5100) to market. Thus, the used ones are going for about
the price of what they were new. One source told me that the 5100 will be
in their hands around the 1st of June; which is too late for us. So, we
bought a refurbed 2500 from him with the promise to take it back for
almost the same price if we want to get the 5100 when it arrives.
Check:
http://members.tripod.com/~HANOVER_TECHNICAL/kroy11.html Ask for Don
Lovett if you call the 800 number.
http://www.labelpal.com/k2500.html another source and descriptions.
http://www.ptouchlabels.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=79
Good prices on label cartridges and the ones for the 2500 will also work
for the 5100. These guys also carry the printers.
http://www.kroy.com/industrial/5100spec.asp (5100 specs).
I've check eBay for some time and there have been no 2500 available for
quite some time.
Hope this helps,
John
> Someone recently mentioned using the Kroy K-3000-PC shrink tube printer
> on the list. I'm curious as to what members who own this piece of
> equipment paid for it and where they purchased it? I'd also like
> comments as to your opinion of it's usefulness.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Battery Contactor |
Many thanks to Harley, Chad, Matt and Dr. Bob. I didn't expect to get so many
helpful responses. You guys are great!
Bob Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Colley <larry(at)grrok.com> |
I'm using wire numbers printed on velium and covering them with clear
shrink tubing that I purchased from B&C.
At 02:44 PM 4/25/04, you wrote:
>
>As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires at each end.
>What is a good labelling system?
>
>Thanks
>Neil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
I used Sunn battery in Jacksonville Fl. Great price and shipping on Odyssey
680. http://www.sunnbattery.com/catalog.html
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: <ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG Batteries Where to buy online?
>
> I would like to ask the group where you might recommend to purchase a RG
> battery online. I am looking to replace an existing PowerSonic PS-12180
NB
> battery.
>
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski(at)mwutah.com> |
| Subject: | Odyssey Batteries on eBay |
If looking for the Odyssey you probably can't beat Odyssey World on eBay.
Just put Odyssey Battery in the search and you will find them. PC680's for
$53 buy it now.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
Just wanted to thank those of you who responded to my questions regarding
batteries.
Thanks, Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
You can buy expensive labelers, but I found the best solution for me was to
use the heat shrink wire labels for a Brady labeler and just write on them
with indelible pen. When you shrink them down, the writing shrinks down
nicely and it's an easy solution. Look for Brady labelers on the web and
their Permashrink labels. Get the smallest and they will shrink down to 22
gage.
David Schaefer
RV6A Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Colley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire labels
I'm using wire numbers printed on velium and covering them with clear
shrink tubing that I purchased from B&C.
At 02:44 PM 4/25/04, you wrote:
>
>As I start to install my electrical system, I want to label wires at each
end.
>What is a good labelling system?
>
>Thanks
>Neil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RG batteries where to buy online |
Mike,
Portable Power Systems, INC. sells the Panasonic 17 ampere hour battery for
$44.95.
Their item number for the LC-RD1217P SLA is: 34L105S2.
sales(at)gotbatteries.com
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Battery CCA ? |
No confusion, just very useful information. Thanks Brian.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RG Battery CCA ?
>
> Bill Maxwell wrote:
> >
> > Ah, so maybe Gells and RG cells are not the same thing?
>
> Gel-cell is RG (recombinant gas)
>
> AGM is RG
>
> Both types are sealed and also called VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid),
the valve is just an overpressure relief valve that will pop-off and release
pressure if you abuse the battery and make it gas faster than the gasses,
hydrogen and oxygen, will recombine.
>
> The difference is in construction. AGM stands for absorbed glass mat.
The liquid electrolyte (yes, liquid) is held in a thin porous fiberglass mat
that separates the lead plates and acts as an insulator. It allows the
plates to be very close together so you can pack a lot of power into a
smaller package. Often the lead plates are made out of lead foil and rolled
up with the glass mat. AGMs are also called "starved electrolyte" because
the mat holds very little electrolyte. The chemistry is almost identical to
standard flooded-cell lead-acid batteries and can use the same charging
voltages.
>
> The killer for AGMs is to overcharge them after they have reached full
charge. They can generate gas faster than they can recombine the gas and
pop off their relief valves. The water is then lost along with battery
capacity.
>
> You can pull a lot of current out of an AGM battery quickly which makes
even small ones good for engine starting.
>
> Gel-Cells use an electrolyte that has been turned into a paste that is
then held between the lead plates using a more conventional insulator.
Gel-Cells tend to have lower capacity for their size and weight but they can
tolerate deep discharges better than can AGMs. Gel-Cells have a much higher
internal resistance which makes their output voltage sag more under load.
Gel-Cells make poor starting batteries unless they are oversized for the
application. If you want to provide 4-5 hours of battery capacity to power
your panel (not a bad idea if you have 4-5 hours of fuel and plan to fly
IFR) then a gel-cell may be sufficiently oversized to be adequate as a
starting battery as well.
>
> Gel-Cells use different charging voltages and using a stock voltage
regulator set for flooded-cell batteries will probably damage your gel-cells
in the long run as its charging voltage is set too high.
>
> The other thing to consider is that charging voltages need to be adjusted
for battery temperature if you are using a sealed battery. Flooded cell
batteries can be abused through overcharging without damage more than can
sealed batteries.
>
> Have I confused everyone enough yet?
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Miller" <drmiller(at)cvillepsychology.net> |
| Subject: | Jabiru Alternator Output |
My Jabiru manual says the alternator output is "14.2 VDA at 3000 RPM" and "10 amps
Continuous". Does this mean that a maximum output of 14.2 amps is achieved
at 3000 RPM, and that output will never be below 10 amps at any operating RPM?
Or, what...?
Thanks,
Bob Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
The post below with the link is from Bob N back in 2001 from the archives.
The link no longer works and that is why I posted the note. Where is the
schematic now?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
> Jim,
>
> I can not view your schematic, is the address below correct ?
>
> Thanks
> Jeff.
>
> -->
>
> I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim
tab.
> I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired
> together and to control the trim speed.
> A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N. However,the
link
> no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the above need? In
> particular, I like the flap position controlled switch. Thanks, Jim HRII
>
> I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
> installation at:
>
> http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
>
> The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
> a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
> speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
>
> I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
> the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
> right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
> of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
> voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Output |
Bob Miller wrote:
> My Jabiru manual says the alternator output is "14.2 VDA at 3000 RPM"
> and "10 amps Continuous". Does this mean that a maximum output of
> 14.2 amps is achieved at 3000 RPM, and that output will never be
> below 10 amps at any operating RPM? Or, what...?
It means that the alternator will put out 14.2V at 3000 RPM. It means you should
never put a continuous load on the alternator that exceeds 10A. That doesn't
mean it can source 10A at low RPM, only that continuous current drain of greater
than 10A could damage the alternator.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Charlie,
I plan on using the Infinity grips, they are similar to what I used in the
Navy. So, I'm stuck with the extra wiring and relays. I really don't
consider two people trying to trim the aircraft much of a worry. As long as
you have a positive change of "pilot flying", there should be only one hand
on a stick at a time. Worse case, if I am attempting to trim and nothing is
happening or it is going the wrong way, I can just shake the stick and
remind the backseater who has the airplane.
Although wiring the aircraft with the two switches is possibly safer, I
don't think I want to reach down somewhere to flip two switches every I take
control or give up control of the aircraft.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
> Jim
> Whose stick grips are you planning on using? If you use the new RAC 305
or 307 grips, you can eliminate the need for relays. The hat switch used in
these grips is rated at 15 amps. Typical current through the hat switch for
the servos is only 0.5 amp. This reduces wiring complexity as you then only
need a (less expensive) speed controller for your trim servos. I looked into
the Mac controller, but I do not like the idea that this system allows for
"first come, first serve" control of the flaps and trim servos. I prefer to
use a 3 position toggle switch to control who's stick grip is "live" at any
time.
> This method has the advantage of giving the pilot positive control over
who is controlling the flaps and trim at any time. The third position (OFF)
allows the flaps and trim to be disabled if need be. I can email you a copy
of my flap wiring schematic if you care to see it.
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim
tab. I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired
together and to control the trim speed.
> >A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
> >However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the
above need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
> >Thanks,
> >Jim
> >HRII
> >
> > I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
> > installation at:
> >
> > http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
> >
> > The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
> > a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
> > speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
> >
> > I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
> > the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
> > right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
> > of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
> > voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
This is a good suggestion, but everyone would have better luck finding
it if they used the correct name "Permasleeve". It took me about 10
minutes to discover this detail...
Dick Tasker
David Schaefer wrote:
>
>You can buy expensive labelers, but I found the best solution for me was to
>use the heat shrink wire labels for a Brady labeler and just write on them
>with indelible pen. When you shrink them down, the writing shrinks down
>nicely and it's an easy solution. Look for Brady labelers on the web and
>their Permashrink labels. Get the smallest and they will shrink down to 22
>gage.
>
>David Schaefer
>RV6A Finishing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing |
John,
How is the 250 better than the 300? I have a computer at my shop, so spending
$140-150 for the 300 appeals to me. I intend to print directly onto the heat shrink.
Do you have to use Kroy's heat shrink with the 300?
Charlie
>
>Hi Charlie -
>
>If one is going to go for the more expensive and probably the easiest way
>to get labelling on to wires, I'd look at the Kroy 2500. It can do wire
>wraps that are designed for the printer and are fairly well indestructible
>when applied to the wire. If you want to go the shrink tubing way, it also
>has the ability to print on several sizes of tubing. Of course, you have
>to use the cartridges designed for the 2500. If you have no need for the
>machine after you are finished wiring - sell it on eBay.
>
>The 2500 runs about $250 - 280 for a new one or a good used one. The
>problem is that Kroy quit making them and are very late getting the
>replacement (the 5100) to market. Thus, the used ones are going for about
>the price of what they were new. One source told me that the 5100 will be
>in their hands around the 1st of June; which is too late for us. So, we
>bought a refurbed 2500 from him with the promise to take it back for
>almost the same price if we want to get the 5100 when it arrives.
>
>Check:
>http://members.tripod.com/~HANOVER_TECHNICAL/kroy11.html Ask for Don
>Lovett if you call the 800 number.
>
>http://www.labelpal.com/k2500.html another source and descriptions.
>
>http://www.ptouchlabels.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=79
> Good prices on label cartridges and the ones for the 2500 will also work
>for the 5100. These guys also carry the printers.
>
>http://www.kroy.com/industrial/5100spec.asp (5100 specs).
>
>I've check eBay for some time and there have been no 2500 available for
>quite some time.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>John
>
>> Someone recently mentioned using the Kroy K-3000-PC shrink tube printer
>> on the list. I'm curious as to what members who own this piece of
>> equipment paid for it and where they purchased it? I'd also like
>> comments as to your opinion of it's usefulness.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Jim
What is your plan of action if a button should stick on either grip? Pull the
breaker or fuse?
Charlie
>
>Charlie,
>I plan on using the Infinity grips, they are similar to what I used in the
>Navy. So, I'm stuck with the extra wiring and relays. I really don't
>consider two people trying to trim the aircraft much of a worry. As long as
>you have a positive change of "pilot flying", there should be only one hand
>on a stick at a time. Worse case, if I am attempting to trim and nothing is
>happening or it is going the wrong way, I can just shake the stick and
>remind the backseater who has the airplane.
>Although wiring the aircraft with the two switches is possibly safer, I
>don't think I want to reach down somewhere to flip two switches every I take
>control or give up control of the aircraft.
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
>
>
>>
>> Jim
>> Whose stick grips are you planning on using? If you use the new RAC 305
>or 307 grips, you can eliminate the need for relays. The hat switch used in
>these grips is rated at 15 amps. Typical current through the hat switch for
>the servos is only 0.5 amp. This reduces wiring complexity as you then only
>need a (less expensive) speed controller for your trim servos. I looked into
>the Mac controller, but I do not like the idea that this system allows for
>"first come, first serve" control of the flaps and trim servos. I prefer to
>use a 3 position toggle switch to control who's stick grip is "live" at any
>time.
>> This method has the advantage of giving the pilot positive control over
>who is controlling the flaps and trim at any time. The third position (OFF)
>allows the flaps and trim to be disabled if need be. I can email you a copy
>of my flap wiring schematic if you care to see it.
>> Charlie Kuss
>>
>
>> >
>> >I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator trim
>tab. I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be wired
>together and to control the trim speed.
>> >A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
>> >However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for the
>above need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
>> >Thanks,
>> >Jim
>> >HRII
>> >
>> > I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
>> > installation at:
>> >
>> > http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
>> >
>> > The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
>> > a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
>> > speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
>> >
>> > I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
>> > the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
>> > right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
>> > of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
>> > voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
>> >
>> > Bob . . .
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing & 2500 |
I found another Internet retailer to look at for pricing on the Kroy
products. I just purchased the Kroy 2500 for $259.00 no tax, free shipping, and
$20.00
instant discount off my order. Just thought this might help for those of you
looking to purchase a Kroy product.
Mike
https://wx9.registeredsite.com/user879142/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProd
ucts.asp?idCategory=14
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <scott_m_richardson(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
A source for larger sheets of EL lighting is:
http://www.luminousfilm.com/
They are an OEM for E-Lite ( http://www.e-lite.com/ ) and will sell you
EL lighting sheet in a large variety of sizes and two colors. You can
have them add the power connectors or crimp them on yourself. I haven't
bought any from these guys yet but am planning on using their stuff to
illuminate my reverse engraved panel overlay. The strips can also be
used for glareshield lighting.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com> |
| Subject: | Odyssey Batteries on eBay |
Anybody using the metal jacketed 680 in the Vans battery box? Fits OK? Any
reason to use the MJ over the regular 680?
Thx
Randy
7A FWF
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott & Leere' Aldrich [mailto:flynski(at)mwutah.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Batteries on eBay
If looking for the Odyssey you probably can't beat Odyssey World on eBay.
Just put Odyssey Battery in the search and you will find them. PC680's for
$53 buy it now.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Triano" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | Kroy 3000 pricing & 2500 |
.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Kroy 3000 pricing & 2500
I found another Internet retailer to look at for pricing on the Kroy
products. I just purchased the Kroy 2500 for $259.00 no tax, free shipping,
and $20.00
instant discount off my order. Just thought this might help for those of you
looking to purchase a Kroy product.
Mike
https://wx9.registeredsite.com/user879142/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndPr
od
ucts.asp?idCategory=14
[rondefly]
Way to expensive, I could purchase about 14 years of 8.5X11 media, print the
labels on my computer which stick into the shrink wrap quite easy, since I
am using shrink wrap anyway for strain purposes.
Ron Triano
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batteries on eBay |
The MJ generally costs a bit more than the plain 680, the metal jacket might
make it tougher to place in the RV battery box. I can see no reason to use
the MJ version unless perhaps you to not plan a battery box.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Batteries on eBay
>
> Anybody using the metal jacketed 680 in the Vans battery box? Fits OK?
Any
> reason to use the MJ over the regular 680?
> Thx
> Randy
> 7A FWF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott & Leere' Aldrich [mailto:flynski(at)mwutah.com]
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey Batteries on eBay
>
>
>
>
> If looking for the Odyssey you probably can't beat Odyssey World on eBay.
> Just put Odyssey Battery in the search and you will find them. PC680's
for
> $53 buy it now.
>
> Scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Some Data on the Rotax regulator |
Hi Bob and all,
My friend Jerome Delamare is completing a thermal survey of the Rotax rectifier/regulator
and a possible replacement, the Schicke GR 4.
Jerome is a reasercher at the Institut National Polytechnique de Grenoble (France)
The final report is still to come, but here is an excerpt of a recent message he
posted on a French homebuilder list.
He agreed to let me make a quick translation of the relevant text for the Aeroelectric
Connection.
I'd be glad to forward him any questions regarding his study.
Feel free to correct my English.
Regards,
Gilles
Translation :
"When I read the Rotax documentation I nearly had a fit. It specifies the ambient
maximum temperature is 90=B0C. Even without any measurements this seemed doubtful.
Since that we have characterized the regulator. I lack time to write a full report
at the moment but here is a short abstract.
- At nominal output, ie at 240 W, the regulator dissipates 80 W (actually measured)
- Thermal resistance between the regulator heat sink and and the ambient atmosphere,
measured at sea level, is 2=B0C/W.
- In a simplified way, one can add a series thermal resistance of 0,3=B0C/W to
obtain the junction temperature.
- Junction temperature must not exceed 125=B0C
Conclusion : in order to work at nominal output the ambient temperature at sea
level must not exceed :
125 - 80*(2+ 0,3) - 59=B0C
Even in Siberia the thing may toast if used at nominal output !
Many among you may think "mine never toasted". Two reasons :
- Many use but one tenth of the nominal power advertised by ROTAX.
- It takes 45 min for the regulator to reach it's max temperature (thermal time
constant on the order of 15 min)
With a PC type fan, the regulator heat sink thermal resistance drops to about 0,5=B0C/W.
At sea level and nominal output, the ambiant temprerature should stay
below :
125-80*(0,5+0,3) + 61=B0C
You'll get out of the airplane before that limit !"
Original French text :
*****************************************************************************************
"En lisant la doc Rotax il y a quelques temps, j'ai failli prendre une attaque.
On y lit que la temp=E9rature ambiante max est de 90=B0C. Sans mesures, =E7a
semblait d=E9j=E0 peut cr=E9dible.
Depuis, nous avons caract=E9ris=E9 le r=E9gulateur. Je n'ai pas le temps de tout
r=E9diger en ce moment mais voici un r=E9sum=E9 :
- A la puissance nominale, c'est-=E0-dire 240W, le r=E9gulateur dissipe 80W (mesur=E9).
- La r=E9sistance thermique entre le radiateur du r=E9gulateur et l'ambiante, mesur=E9e
au niveau de la mer, est de 2=B0C/W.
- En simplifiant un peu, on peut rajouter en s=E9rie une r=E9sistance thermique
de 0,3=B0C/W pour obtenir la temp=E9rature de jonction.
- La temp=E9rature de jonction ne doit pas d=E9passer 125=B0C
Conclusion, pour pouvoir fonctionner au nominal, au niveau de la mer, la temp=E9rature
ambiante ne doit pas d=E9passer :
125 - 80*(2+ 0,3) - 59=B0C
M=EAme en Sib=E9rie le bidule risque de cramer si vous l'utilisez =E0 son r=E9gime
nominal !
Beaucoup d'entre vous doivent se dire : =AB le mien n'a jamais cram=E9 ! =BB. Deux
raisons =E0 cela :
- Beaucoup ne consomment que le dixi=E8me de la puissance nominale annonc=E9e
par ROTAX.
- Il faut 45 min pour que le r=E9gulateur atteigne sa temp=E9rature max
(constante de temps thermique d'environ 15 min).
Avec un ventilateur de PC, la r=E9sistance thermique du radiateur du r=E9gulateur
tombe =E0 environ 0,5=B0C/W.
Au niveau de la mer et au r=E9gime nominal, la temp=E9rature ambiante ne doit pas
d=E9passer :
125-80*(0,5+0,3) + 61=B0C
Vous serez descendu de l'avion avant !"
[...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some Data on the Rotax regulator |
Hi all,
It seems the temperature symbols didn't get through correctly in the
previous message. All the
temperatures are in degrees C.
Corrected (hopefully) text below
Regards,
Gilles
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> My friend Jerome Delamare is completing a thermal survey of the Rotax
rectifier/regulator and a possible replacement, the Schicke GR 4.
> Jerome is a reasercher at the Institut National Polytechnique de Grenoble
(France)
> The final report is still to come, but here is an excerpt of a recent
message he posted on a French homebuilder list.
> He agreed to let me make a quick translation of the relevant text for the
Aeroelectric Connection.
>
> I'd be glad to forward him any questions regarding his study.
> Feel free to correct my English.
> Regards,
>
> Gilles
>
> Translation :
>
> "When I read the Rotax documentation I nearly had a fit. It specifies the
ambient maximum temperature is 90 degrees C. Even without any measurements
this seemed doubtful.
>
> Since that we have characterized the regulator. I lack time to write a
full report at the moment but here is a short abstract.
>
> - At nominal output, ie at 240 W, the regulator dissipates 80 W (actually
measured)
> - Thermal resistance between the regulator heat sink and and the ambient
atmosphere, measured at sea level, is 2 degrees C/W.
> - In a simplified way, one can add a series thermal resistance of 0,3
degrees C/W to obtain the junction temperature.
> - Junction temperature must not exceed 125 degrees C
>
> Conclusion : in order to work at nominal output the ambient temperature at
sea level must not exceed :
>
> 125 - 80*(2+ 0,3) = - 59 degrees C
>
> Even in Siberia the thing may toast if used at nominal output !
>
> Many among you may think "mine never toasted". Two reasons :
> - Many use but one tenth of the nominal power advertised by ROTAX.
> - It takes 45 min for the regulator to reach it's max temperature (thermal
time constant on the order of 15 min)
>
> With a PC type fan, the regulator heat sink thermal resistance drops to
about 0,5 degrees C/W. At sea level and nominal output, the ambiant
temprerature should stay below :
> 125-80*(0,5+0,3) = + 61 degrees C
>
> You'll get out of the airplane before that limit !"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Triano" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | Cosel power supply |
Hi, A few weeks ago Bob talked about AC to DC power supply's that were a
great buy. The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
marks on the terminals I don't understand. Maybe someone can help. They are
as follows.
+V +S
+V
-V
-V-S
FG
AC(L)
AC(N)
On top of this set of terminals there seams to be an V.ADJ which I think is
the way to adjust the voltage.
Thankyou in advance
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page2.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> Just to be clear here, I am NOT the one that said "Use floats - they can't
> tell the difference". The capacitive sensors that Van's sells are said to
> have the advantage of more accuracy and an earlier indication of fuel level
> as a full tank gets used.
If you want accuracy, you use a fuel totalizer. The fuel gauges are your sanity
check. A fuel gauge will tell you if your fuel is leaking away whereas a totalizer
won't.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cosel power supply |
Ron;
See embedded comments
Bob McC
Ron Triano wrote:
>
>Hi, A few weeks ago Bob talked about AC to DC power supply's that were a
>great buy. The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
>just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
>marks on the terminals I don't understand. Maybe someone can help. They are
>as follows.
>
>+V +S Positive voltage sense (not normally used)
>+V Positive voltage output terminal (equivalent to battery positive)
>-V Negative voltage output terminal (equivalent to battery negative)
>-V-S Negative voltage sense (not normally used)
>FG System ground (the ground pin in your hydro line cord)
>AC(L) AC power Line (the live wire in your hydro line cord)
>AC(N) AC power Neutral (the neutral wire in your hydro line cord)
>
>On top of this set of terminals there seams to be an V.ADJ which I think is
>the way to adjust the voltage. That is correct. The specifications say the voltage
is adjustable from about 10.8 to about 13.2 volts but in practice most of
these supplies will be able to reach about 14.2 volts.
>
>
>Thank you in advance
>
>Ron Triano
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Cosel power supply |
>Hi, A few weeks ago Bob talked about AC to DC power supply's that were a
>great buy. The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
>just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
>marks on the terminals I don't understand. Maybe someone can help. They are
>as follows.
+V+S This is a sense lead (more below)
+V Positive Voltage Out (fat black wire)
-V Negative Voltage Out (fat red wire)
-V-S This is a sense lead (more below)
FG AC (Wall) Ground. Green wire.
AC(L) AC (Wall) Line, Hot, Black wire
AC(N) AC (Wall) Neutral, White wire
>On top of this set of terminals there seams to be an V.ADJ which I think is
the way to adjust the voltage.
Yes. See below.
Here's the deal on the sense leads. Let's say you have the power supply
cranked up and it's putting out a lot of current. Now the power supply does
not know how long your wires are. So if the power supply is adjusted to 12V,
you might be getting only 9V at the end of a long run of wire because of the
resistance of the wire. Not good.
So the power supply uses two more leads (these can be a very small wires
since they carry almost zero current) that measure the voltage at the far
end of the wires and adjust the power supply so that it delivers enough
voltage to deliver the right voltage at the far end of the wires. Cool eh?
Caveats: Often the power supply will do strange things if the sense leads
are not connected. After all, the supply is cranking its dear little heart
out to try to get the sense leads to the requested voltage. So for
non-critical purposes and short, fat, power leads, just jumper the sense
leads to the V+ leads they are associated with.
Also--The ground may or may not be connected to the negative lead. It
usually says on the box. For most purposes this will not matter.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Capacitive sensors are a neat way of measuring fuel levels.
The problem with different fuels is that they have different dielectric
constants; that is, a capacitor is two plates separated by something, and
that something has its own characteristics.
But Holy Mackerel Batman, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to whip up a
device to obviate this infortuity!
Simply have another tiny reference circuit that is a capacitive fuel sensor
that is always submerged. The rest is simple for a rocket scientist.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"When dealing with the enemy, it helps if he thinks you're a little bit
crazy."
--Gen. Curtis LeMay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cosel power supply |
This is almost 100% correct. The sense terminals must be connected to
the appropriate output terminals (there may be jumpers installed
already). This is to allow remote sensing of the regulated voltage. If
the supply is located far from the equipment that uses the power, one
can run four wires to the use point and connect the sense inputs to the
power outputs at the use point. That eliminates any voltage drops in
the voltage output lines - i.e. the power supply regulates the voltage
measured at the use point rather than at the power supply terminals.
This is why the power supply can be adjusted to significantly higher
than the nameplate rating - to allow for the case where there is
significant voltage drop between the supply and the equipment using the
power.
The above may be much more than you want to know. If so, just read the
below statement. :-)
In your case, that is probably unnecessary so they should be connected
at the power supply (positive sense to positive output and negative
sense to negative output).
Dick Tasker,
RV9A #90573
Robert McCallum wrote:
>
>Ron;
>See embedded comments
>
>Bob McC
>
>Ron Triano wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Hi, A few weeks ago Bob talked about AC to DC power supply's that were a
>>great buy. The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
>>just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
>>marks on the terminals I don't understand. Maybe someone can help. They are
>>as follows.
>>
>>+V +S Positive voltage sense (not normally used)
>>+V Positive voltage output terminal (equivalent to battery positive)
>>-V Negative voltage output terminal (equivalent to battery negative)
>>-V-S Negative voltage sense (not normally used)
>>FG System ground (the ground pin in your hydro line cord)
>>AC(L) AC power Line (the live wire in your hydro line cord)
>>AC(N) AC power Neutral (the neutral wire in your hydro line cord)
>>
>>On top of this set of terminals there seams to be an V.ADJ which I think is
>>the way to adjust the voltage. That is correct. The specifications say the voltage
is adjustable from about 10.8 to about 13.2 volts but in practice most of
these supplies will be able to reach about 14.2 volts.
>>
>>
>>Thank you in advance
>>
>>Ron Triano
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cosel power supply |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Check the guy's web site. I believe there is a picture of the terminals
and a listing of what they all mean.
John
> The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
> just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
> marks on the terminals I don't understand.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Brian,
Good to see you back on one of Matt's lists. I see you moved. Must be an
interesting story there.
The Blue Mountain EFIS/one that I am installing has both the capacitive fuel
level sensors and a fuel totalizer that uses the fuel flow to keep track of
the fuel burn rate and fuel onboard. From the manual, "As you fly, this
number (fuel onboard) will be updated to show the current computed fuel
level. This number should substantially agree with what is shown on your
fuel level sensors but is not a measurement of the fuel level sensors. The
number shown as fuel onboard is calculated based upon the initial fuel
entered and the fuel used as read from the calibrated fuel flow sensor(s)."
Terry
RV-8A wiring
Seattle
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> Just to be clear here, I am NOT the one that said "Use floats - they can't
> tell the difference". The capacitive sensors that Van's sells are said to
> have the advantage of more accuracy and an earlier indication of fuel
level
> as a full tank gets used.
If you want accuracy, you use a fuel totalizer. The fuel gauges are your
sanity check. A fuel gauge will tell you if your fuel is leaking away
whereas a totalizer won't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kroy 3000 pricing |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Charlie -
I don't know if you have to use Kroy's shrink tubing with the 300 or not.
Kroy's website should have the info. You could also check the suppliers'
sites and see if they have a specific cartridge for the 300. Most of these
type of machines have proprietary stuff - witness Inkjet printers!! With
the 2500, I can choose what I want to use each time I set a wire - label
or tubing. Both cartridges are there and can be changed very quickly.
As for the 300 vs. the 2500, I chose the 2500 because I do not want to
have a computer in the shop where the dust from sanding and other stuff
can get into the drives. Also, the 2500 is self contained and does not
need a cord. While wiring in the fuselage or elsewhere, I want to be able
to cut a wire, put a label on, or a piece of lettered shrink tubing, strip
it and put a pin or connector on. Less chance for trying to remember which
6 or 7 wires in that AMP CPC are for what.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
JOhn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Triano" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Cosel power supply |
Thanks to both of you that answered. Did not want to blow it up before using
it.
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Cosel power supply
>Hi, A few weeks ago Bob talked about AC to DC power supply's that were a
>great buy. The name was Cosel and the price was right. I ordered one and
>just got it, however there are no directions with it and it has some ID
>marks on the terminals I don't understand. Maybe someone can help. They are
>as follows.
+V+S This is a sense lead (more below)
+V Positive Voltage Out (fat black wire)
-V Negative Voltage Out (fat red wire)
-V-S This is a sense lead (more below)
FG AC (Wall) Ground. Green wire.
AC(L) AC (Wall) Line, Hot, Black wire
AC(N) AC (Wall) Neutral, White wire
>On top of this set of terminals there seams to be an V.ADJ which I think is
the way to adjust the voltage.
Yes. See below.
Here's the deal on the sense leads. Let's say you have the power supply
cranked up and it's putting out a lot of current. Now the power supply does
not know how long your wires are. So if the power supply is adjusted to 12V,
you might be getting only 9V at the end of a long run of wire because of the
resistance of the wire. Not good.
So the power supply uses two more leads (these can be a very small wires
since they carry almost zero current) that measure the voltage at the far
end of the wires and adjust the power supply so that it delivers enough
voltage to deliver the right voltage at the far end of the wires. Cool eh?
Caveats: Often the power supply will do strange things if the sense leads
are not connected. After all, the supply is cranking its dear little heart
out to try to get the sense leads to the requested voltage. So for
non-critical purposes and short, fat, power leads, just jumper the sense
leads to the V+ leads they are associated with.
Also--The ground may or may not be connected to the negative lead. It
usually says on the box. For most purposes this will not matter.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
Teamwork: " A lot of people doing exactly what I say."
(Marketing exec., Citrix Corp.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | ND alternator terminals |
I have an ND 70 amp (yes, internally regulated) alternator.
I machined up a V-belt pulley ~5" diameter to slow the brute down from 10k
revs to get it to live longer and more reliably (?).
The "B" terminal is clear (it's the big meaty one), but there are three
other terminals in a "T" arrangement.
One will be field, one ground, but which is which, and what is the third one?
Thanks
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Girard <fly.ez(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator configuration |
WIth the mention of substituting a John Deere regulator for the Ducati
unit, I will assume my hunch that the Rotax uses a dynamo to generate
electricity is correct. If that is the case why not look at a Harley
Davidson regulator as a possible replacement? They handle up to 35 amps
and can be bought for around $60.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RE: Cosel power supply |
Oops--
+V Positive Voltage Out (fat red wire )
-V Negative Voltage Out (fat black wire)
-V-S This is a sense lead (more below)
Target fixation maybe,
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Well you got me there. Perhaps a normally closed switch with an emergency
position of open would solve that emergency. That way the switch on the
panel never gets used except for a runaway. What do you think?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
> Jim
> What is your plan of action if a button should stick on either grip? Pull
the breaker or fuse?
> Charlie
>
> >
> >Charlie,
> >I plan on using the Infinity grips, they are similar to what I used in
the
> >Navy. So, I'm stuck with the extra wiring and relays. I really don't
> >consider two people trying to trim the aircraft much of a worry. As long
as
> >you have a positive change of "pilot flying", there should be only one
hand
> >on a stick at a time. Worse case, if I am attempting to trim and nothing
is
> >happening or it is going the wrong way, I can just shake the stick and
> >remind the backseater who has the airplane.
> >Although wiring the aircraft with the two switches is possibly safer, I
> >don't think I want to reach down somewhere to flip two switches every I
take
> >control or give up control of the aircraft.
> >Jim
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> Whose stick grips are you planning on using? If you use the new RAC
305
> >or 307 grips, you can eliminate the need for relays. The hat switch used
in
> >these grips is rated at 15 amps. Typical current through the hat switch
for
> >the servos is only 0.5 amp. This reduces wiring complexity as you then
only
> >need a (less expensive) speed controller for your trim servos. I looked
into
> >the Mac controller, but I do not like the idea that this system allows
for
> >"first come, first serve" control of the flaps and trim servos. I prefer
to
> >use a 3 position toggle switch to control who's stick grip is "live" at
any
> >time.
> >> This method has the advantage of giving the pilot positive control
over
> >who is controlling the flaps and trim at any time. The third position
(OFF)
> >allows the flaps and trim to be disabled if need be. I can email you a
copy
> >of my flap wiring schematic if you care to see it.
> >> Charlie Kuss
> >>
> >
> >> >
> >> >I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator
trim
> >tab. I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be
wired
> >together and to control the trim speed.
> >> >A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
> >> >However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for
the
> >above need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >Jim
> >> >HRII
> >> >
> >> > I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
> >> > installation at:
> >> >
> >> > http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
> >> >
> >> > The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
> >> > a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
> >> > speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
> >> >
> >> > I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
> >> > the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
> >> > right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
> >> > of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
> >> > voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Bob . . .
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Triano" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | ND alternator terminals |
This page may help you id the terminals.
http://www.mrreman.com/downloadsgateway/TECH/MRTSB-TECH-006.htm
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Clayton
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ND alternator terminals
I have an ND 70 amp (yes, internally regulated) alternator.
I machined up a V-belt pulley ~5" diameter to slow the brute down from 10k
revs to get it to live longer and more reliably (?).
The "B" terminal is clear (it's the big meaty one), but there are three
other terminals in a "T" arrangement.
One will be field, one ground, but which is which, and what is the third
one?
Thanks
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Yes, that would work.
Charlie
>
>Well you got me there. Perhaps a normally closed switch with an emergency
>position of open would solve that emergency. That way the switch on the
>panel never gets used except for a runaway. What do you think?
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
>
>
>>
>> Jim
>> What is your plan of action if a button should stick on either grip? Pull
>the breaker or fuse?
>> Charlie
>>
>
>> >
>> >Charlie,
>> >I plan on using the Infinity grips, they are similar to what I used in
>the
>> >Navy. So, I'm stuck with the extra wiring and relays. I really don't
>> >consider two people trying to trim the aircraft much of a worry. As long
>as
>> >you have a positive change of "pilot flying", there should be only one
>hand
>> >on a stick at a time. Worse case, if I am attempting to trim and nothing
>is
>> >happening or it is going the wrong way, I can just shake the stick and
>> >remind the backseater who has the airplane.
>> >Although wiring the aircraft with the two switches is possibly safer, I
>> >don't think I want to reach down somewhere to flip two switches every I
>take
>> >control or give up control of the aircraft.
>> >Jim
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>> >To:
>> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Jim
>> >> Whose stick grips are you planning on using? If you use the new RAC
>305
>> >or 307 grips, you can eliminate the need for relays. The hat switch used
>in
>> >these grips is rated at 15 amps. Typical current through the hat switch
>for
>> >the servos is only 0.5 amp. This reduces wiring complexity as you then
>only
>> >need a (less expensive) speed controller for your trim servos. I looked
>into
>> >the Mac controller, but I do not like the idea that this system allows
>for
>> >"first come, first serve" control of the flaps and trim servos. I prefer
>to
>> >use a 3 position toggle switch to control who's stick grip is "live" at
>any
>> >time.
>> >> This method has the advantage of giving the pilot positive control
>over
>> >who is controlling the flaps and trim at any time. The third position
>(OFF)
>> >allows the flaps and trim to be disabled if need be. I can email you a
>copy
>> >of my flap wiring schematic if you care to see it.
>> >> Charlie Kuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >I would like to have two speeds to run my Mac servo on my elevator
>trim
>> >tab. I plan to use the Matronics Governor to allow two sticks to be
>wired
>> >together and to control the trim speed.
>> >> >A search of the archives came up with this post from Bob N.
>> >> >However,the link no longer works. Does anyone know of schematic for
>the
>> >above need? In particular, I like the flap position controlled switch.
>> >> >Thanks,
>> >> >Jim
>> >> >HRII
>> >> >
>> >> > I've published a schematic for a trim speed regulator
>> >> > installation at:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://209.134.106.21/articles/trim/trim4.pdf
>> >> >
>> >> > The speed control switch could be panel mounted -OR-
>> >> > a microswitch on the flap mechanism to switch to low
>> >> > speed ops when flaps are fully retracted.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm modifying the dimmer boards that B&C uses in
>> >> > the DIM series lighting controllers to accept potentiometers
>> >> > right on the board . . . this will allow the full range
>> >> > of dimmer assemblies to be used as adjustable, constant
>> >> > voltage sources for trim speed, CD players, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bob . . .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
Have Bob Robertson, a Canadian Rotax dealer and repairperson, make a few
comments here: there is a known failure, or lack of longevity, in the stock
Rotax supplied, or Ducati regulator as shipped with the older models.......
not sure about the later (BlueHeads) models of the 582. Bob can be reached
at "Light Engines Service Ltd.", in St. Albert, Alberta, Canada, at
aerocon1(at)telusplanet.net. He has joined in on the Avid and Kitfox (probably
others) forums with great experience and good advice many times............
most of us actually carry a spare regulator knowing that eventually the
stocker is going to weaken, or fail.
Sid
Alpena, Michigan
N204S
------------------------
My friend Jerome Delamare is completing a thermal survey of the Rotax
rectifier/regulator and a possible replacement, the Schicke GR 4.
Jerome is a reasercher at the Institut National Polytechnique de Grenoble
(France)
The final report is still to come, but here is an excerpt of a recent
message he posted on a French homebuilder list.
He agreed to let me make a quick translation of the relevant text for the
Aeroelectric Connection.
I'd be glad to forward him any questions regarding his study.
Feel free to correct my English.
Regards,
Gilles
Translation :
"When I read the Rotax documentation I nearly had a fit. It specifies the
ambient maximum temperature is 90B0C. Even without any measurements this
seemed doubtful.
Since that we have characterized the regulator. I lack time to write a full
report at the moment but here is a short abstract.
- At nominal output, ie at 240 W, the regulator dissipates 80 W (actually
measured)
- Thermal resistance between the regulator heat sink and and the ambient
atmosphere, measured at sea level, is 2B0C/W.
- In a simplified way, one can add a series thermal resistance of 0,3B0C/W
to obtain the junction temperature.
- Junction temperature must not exceed 125B0C
Conclusion : in order to work at nominal output the ambient temperature at
sea level must not exceed :
125 - 80*(2+ 0,3) - 59B0C
Even in Siberia the thing may toast if used at nominal output !
Many among you may think "mine never toasted". Two reasons :
- Many use but one tenth of the nominal power advertised by ROTAX.
- It takes 45 min for the regulator to reach it's max temperature (thermal
time constant on the order of 15 min)
With a PC type fan, the regulator heat sink thermal resistance drops to
about 0,5B0C/W. At sea level and nominal output, the ambiant temprerature
should stay below :
125-80*(0,5+0,3) + 61B0C
You'll get out of the airplane before that limit !"
Original French text :
*****************************************************************************
***********
"En lisant la doc Rotax il y a quelques temps, j'ai failli prendre une
attaque. On y lit que la tempE9rature ambiante max est de 90B0C. Sans
mesures, E7a semblait dE9jE0 peut crE9dible.
Depuis, nous avons caractE9risE9 le rE9gulateur. Je n'ai pas le temps de
tout rE9diger en ce moment mais voici un rE9sumE9 :
- A la puissance nominale, c'est-E0-dire 240W, le rE9gulateur dissipe 80W
(mesurE9).
- La rE9sistance thermique entre le radiateur du rE9gulateur et l'ambiante
mesurE9e au niveau de la mer, est de 2B0C/W.
- En simplifiant un peu, on peut rajouter en sE9rie une rE9sistance
thermique de 0,3B0C/W pour obtenir la tempE9rature de jonction.
- La tempE9rature de jonction ne doit pas dE9passer 125B0C
Conclusion, pour pouvoir fonctionner au nominal, au niveau de la mer, la
tempE9rature ambiante ne doit pas dE9passer :
125 - 80*(2+ 0,3) - 59B0C
MEAme en SibE9rie le bidule risque de cramer si vous l'utilisez E0 son
rE9gime nominal !
Beaucoup d'entre vous doivent se dire : AB le mien n'a jamais cramE9 ! BB
Deux raisons E0 cela :
- Beaucoup ne consomment que le dixiE8me de la puissance nominale
annoncE9e par ROTAX.
- Il faut 45 min pour que le rE9gulateur atteigne sa tempE9rature
max (constante de temps thermique d'environ 15 min).
Avec un ventilateur de PC, la rE9sistance thermique du radiateur du
rE9gulateur tombe E0 environ 0,5B0C/W.
Au niveau de la mer et au rE9gime nominal, la tempE9rature ambiante ne
doit pas dE9passer :
125-80*(0,5+0,3) + 61B0C
Vous serez descendu de l'avion avant !"
[...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
"Eric M. Jones" wrote:
> Simply have another tiny reference circuit that is a capacitive fuel sensor
> that is always submerged. The rest is simple for a rocket scientist.
The manufacturer I spoke to said he has thought of doing just that, have a
reference cap in the bottom of the tank, but figured that it would make the whole
system too expensive. It seems like this will be necessary if these probes are
going to work with auto fuel.
Winston Ellis
Zenith 701/uzuki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> Good to see you back on one of Matt's lists. I see you moved. Must be an
> interesting story there.
Well, I never left the Yak-list as I still own a CJ6 (project) but my flying/building
has been substantially reduced as I focused on a new business and an unplanned
sailboat "re engineering". (Why is it that I find it necessary to redesign
the electrical systems of vehicles I own?)
> The Blue Mountain EFIS/one that I am installing has both the capacitive fuel
> level sensors and a fuel totalizer that uses the fuel flow to keep track of
> the fuel burn rate and fuel on-board. From the manual, "As you fly, this
> number (fuel on-board) will be updated to show the current computed fuel
> level. This number should substantially agree with what is shown on your
> fuel level sensors but is not a measurement of the fuel level sensors. The
> number shown as fuel on-board is calculated based upon the initial fuel
> entered and the fuel used as read from the calibrated fuel flow sensor(s)."
My CJ6A project is going to have the Blue Mountain EFIS for both cockpits so I
am very interested in your comments and opinion. My biggest problem will be monitoring
all 9 cylinders. For some reason engine monitors seem to expect an
even number of cylinders when everyone knows that real aircraft engines have an
odd number of cylinders unless they have multiple cylinder banks. ;-)
A properly-calibrated totalizer will tell you much more accurately how much fuel
you have used than will your gauges. If you have 32 gal of fuel, you have flown
for two hours with an engine that burns 8 gal/hr, the totalizer says you
have 16 gal remaining, and the gauges say 1/2, all is well. It is when things
don't agree that you start to worry.
I made a precautionary landing in my Comanche one night because I had an anomalous
reading on one fuel gauge. Everything else seemed normal but if the gauge
were correct, I could not make it to my destination. So I landed and checked.
It turned out to be a good thing because the fuel cap (one of those thermos-bottle
expanding rubber things) had not sealed properly and the fuel had vented
overboard. A totalizer would have told me nothing except that the engine had
burned what I expected.
This gets back to what Bob and I were saying about indicators. They don't always
tell you what you think they are telling you. A light connected to the fuel
pump switch tells you that the switch is good, not that there is power to the
fuel pump. A light across the terminals to the fuel pump tells you that the
pump is receiving voltage but not whether it is running. A current-sensing relay
tells you that the pump is drawing power but not if it is pumping fuel.
A fuel pressure switch or gauge will tell you if the pump is providing pressure
but not if there is any flow into the fuel-metering system of the engine (carb
or injection system). A fuel flow meter will tell you if there is fuel flow
to the engine compartment but not if fuel is leaking from the tanks. You have
to know your systems to know what your gauges and indicators are telling you.
(BTW, Bob N. is one of the few guys I have met who really thinks this stuff through.)
But for daily flying, nothing beats a totalizer. Having the time-to-empty displayed
on the totalizer and the time-to-go displayed on the GPS gives you a really
good idea of whether or not you will make it to your destination with safe
fuel reserves long before it becomes an issue and when you still have a lot more
options for stopping and refueling. That last 100mi leg across the desert
is not the time to figure out you won't make it to your destination and you won't
make it back to the last airport you overflew. The totalizer takes the pucker-factor
out of in-flight decisions when winds aloft are not as forecast.
(And yes, I know this from experience in my RV-4.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Jim Stone wrote:
> Well you got me there. Perhaps a normally closed switch with an emergency
> position of open would solve that emergency. That way the switch on the
> panel never gets used except for a runaway. What do you think?
I think that is just something else to go wrong. You can bump it, drop something
on it, etc. I like the pull-able breaker or fuse idea myself.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ND alternator terminals |
Ron Triano wrote:
>
> This page may help you id the terminals.
> http://www.mrreman.com/downloadsgateway/TECH/MRTSB-TECH-006.htm
Good reference. I wish I had known about that a year ago when I was working on
the alternators in my boat.
As an additional point, many internally-regulated alternators are "self exciting"
in that residual magnetism in the armature will generate enough power to turn-on
the regulator and start providing field current. The alternator then "bootstraps"
itself into producing full output.
But sometimes that requires that you turn the alternator pretty fast. On my previous
CJ6A it has a self-exciting internally-regulated truck alternator (28V/60A)
that didn't self-excite until I turned the engine up to about 2000 RPM.
After that it was fine even at idle. My alternator wouldn't come on line until
run-up or until I goosed it pretty good.
The work-around is to hook up the idiot-light (alternator not working light) circuit.
In some cases the internal regulator can use a switched line from the
battery to power the regulator but many times it uses the idiot-light circuit
to do the same thing. Before the alternator provides any output the idiot-light
provides power to the input of the regulator and the light comes on. When
the output from the stator is high enough, the regulator gets its input from the
diode-trio so there is no current through the idiot-light anymore and the light
goes off.
But this gets back to that "be sure you know what you are measuring" thing. If
the output diodes in the alternator fail, it is possible for the light to go
out and yet there still be no alternator output because the regulator gets its
power from the diode trio.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Capacitive fuel probe errors? |
The way I get around this in my engine monitor is to do everything. That is
the Pulsar allows the user to decide what they want the instrument to do.
For example consider the fuel level problem, the Pulsar engine monitor can
be configured to show two simultaneous fuel gauges, one calibrated with
100LL and one with auto gas using the same capacitive probes.
Alternatively the Pulsar can be configured to use a submerged reference
capacitor and switch calibrations based on the reference cap. Note the
Pulsar basically has a programmable calculator built in so you could use one
calibration table and use the reference capacitor to scale the calibration
based on the dielectric constant.
Third option is to use fuel flow sensors to measure the actual fuel burned.
Note that since the Pulsar is configurable by the end user you can implement
all three solutions if you wanted. You could also have fuel gauges showing
liters, pounds and gallons simultaneous.
Heck if you really wanted you could place the reference capacitor near the
bottom of the tank and use it not only to calculate the dielectric constant
but also as a low fuel level light.
Don't look at the Pulsar as an engine monitor but rather think of it as a
data acquisition system coupled with a sun light readable color LCD and a
programmable calculator.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Winston
Ellis
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Capacitive fuel probe errors?
<w1mdi@cox-internet.com>
"Eric M. Jones" wrote:
> Simply have another tiny reference circuit that is a capacitive fuel
sensor
> that is always submerged. The rest is simple for a rocket scientist.
The manufacturer I spoke to said he has thought of doing just that, have a
reference cap in the bottom of the tank, but figured that it would make the
whole
system too expensive. It seems like this will be necessary if these probes
are
going to work with auto fuel.
Winston Ellis
Zenith 701/uzuki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: routing coax in a Cessna |
I am adding a gps and traffic detector (top and bottom transponder antennas)
and also replacing the coax all with RG400.
On top are the gps antenna, transponder antenna for the traffic detector, and
two comm antennas, with the comm/glideslpe whisker in the fin; on bottom is
the transponder, dme, marker beacon, and the additional transponder antenna for
the traffic detector.
Any suggestions as to routing the coax, do they interfere with each other,
does it matter? Thank you, Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 2 magenetometers, Dynon |
I am planning to ditch the electric spinning gryos AI and DG in favor of a
second EFIS. Each would require a remote sensing magnetometer. Can I
place these side by side or one on top of the other? If they must be
separated, how far? If anybody has already done this, results? Pictures?
I have only one report on the FIX to the Dynon RFI problem. Has anyone
else installed the "dongle" and gotten rid of the interference?
Cross posted to RV and Aeroelectric lists.
Thanks in advance.
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 magenetometers, Dynon |
> I have only one report on the FIX to the Dynon RFI problem. Has anyone
> else installed the "dongle" and gotten rid of the interference?
Last I heard, Dynon was producing the final "potted" dongle. The one I had
tested was just a free-hanging unprotected version. I just emailed Doug
Medema this morning to see where they stand on production. Will advise when
I get the final version.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: routing coax in a Cessna |
> I am adding a gps and traffic detector (top and bottom transponder
antennas)
How are you connecting both of the antennas (transponder antenna) to the
traffic detector? Through a splitter of some sort I presume?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <CardinalNSB(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: routing coax in a Cessna
>
> I am adding a gps and traffic detector (top and bottom transponder
antennas)
> and also replacing the coax all with RG400.
>
> On top are the gps antenna, transponder antenna for the traffic detector,
and
> two comm antennas, with the comm/glideslpe whisker in the fin; on bottom
is
> the transponder, dme, marker beacon, and the additional transponder
antenna for
> the traffic detector.
>
> Any suggestions as to routing the coax, do they interfere with each other,
> does it matter? Thank you, Skip Simpson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: routing coax in a Cessna |
CardinalNSB(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I am adding a gps and traffic detector (top and bottom transponder antennas)
> and also replacing the coax all with RG400.
I presume you mean LMR-400. Good stuff. I use it in a lot of microwave applications.
It isn't very flexible so be careful with your routing so as not to bend
it too tightly.
> On top are the gps antenna, transponder antenna for the traffic detector, and
> two comm antennas, with the comm/glideslpe whisker in the fin; on bottom is
> the transponder, dme, marker beacon, and the additional transponder antenna for
> the traffic detector.
>
> Any suggestions as to routing the coax,
Routing the coax inside the fuselage shouldn't be an issue so long as you keep
the bend radii as large as possible.
> do they interfere with each other,
> does it matter? Thank you, Skip Simpson
The DME and transponder can interfere with each other. (Actually the DME can interfere
with the transponder.) The manuals should tell you how far apart to place
the antennas for the transponder and DME. In fact, your DME probably has
a pulse supression line that goes to the transponder to squelch replies from
the transponder in reply to DME pulses. You can try installing without it but
if some DME frequencies cause the transponder reply light to come on, you need
the supression line.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: routing coax in a Cessna |
>
>CardinalNSB(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I am adding a gps and traffic detector (top and bottom transponder
> antennas)
> > and also replacing the coax all with RG400.
>
>I presume you mean LMR-400. Good stuff. I use it in a lot of microwave
>applications. It isn't very flexible so be careful with your routing so
>as not to bend it too tightly.
RG-400 is a double shielded version of RG-58 with modern
insulations and silver plated shield. LMR-400 is a different
stuff.
> > On top are the gps antenna, transponder antenna for the traffic
> detector, and
> > two comm antennas, with the comm/glideslpe whisker in the fin; on
> bottom is
> > the transponder, dme, marker beacon, and the additional transponder
> antenna for
> > the traffic detector.
> >
> > Any suggestions as to routing the coax,
>
>Routing the coax inside the fuselage shouldn't be an issue so long as you
>keep the bend radii as large as possible.
RG-400 is good down to 2" radius bends or less.
> > do they interfere with each other,
> > does it matter? Thank you, Skip Simpson
>
>The DME and transponder can interfere with each other. (Actually the DME
>can interfere with the transponder.) The manuals should tell you how far
>apart to place the antennas for the transponder and DME. In fact, your
>DME probably has a pulse supression line that goes to the transponder to
>squelch replies from the transponder in reply to DME pulses. You can try
>installing without it but if some DME frequencies cause the transponder
>reply light to come on, you need the supression line.
Coax placement is an issue of days gone by but direct
interference between these systems via signals radiated
from antennas is a BIG issue. Good advice on the suppression
line.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Spark plug wires... |
I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
Maclom
I and a number of other rotary engine powered RVs fly with quality auto
sparkplug wires up to around 17,000 MSL and have not encountered that
problem. Perhaps we are not flying high enough.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Spark plug wires...
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
> altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
> plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
> there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
> spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
>
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim speed control |
Good point.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Trim speed control
>
> Jim Stone wrote:
>
> > Well you got me there. Perhaps a normally closed switch with an
emergency
> > position of open would solve that emergency. That way the switch on the
> > panel never gets used except for a runaway. What do you think?
>
> I think that is just something else to go wrong. You can bump it, drop
something on it, etc. I like the pull-able breaker or fuse idea myself.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Vor wingtip ant |
Does anyone have Van's VOR wingtip antennae installed and working? I'm wondering
if it works as good as the Bob Archer unit. It is only 25 bucks.
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erie Patsellis <erie(at)shelbyvilledesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
which would make sense, as the dielectric voltage of the air increases
as the density decreases.....
or at least that's what I was taught 20 years ago in college...
erie
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>Maclom
>
> I and a number of other rotary engine powered RVs fly with quality auto
>sparkplug wires up to around 17,000 MSL and have not encountered that
>problem. Perhaps we are not flying high enough.
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Spark plug wires...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
>>electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
>>are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
>>altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
>>plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>>
>>My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
>>there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
>>spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
>
>
>I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
>electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
>are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
>altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
>plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>
>My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
>there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
>spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
If someone is having altitude related, high voltage problems, it's
not with wire. Dielectric strength is a function of insulation material
and thickness which does not vary with altitude. However, connections
NOT totally enclosed in insulation (like interface between wire and
some form of connector) exposes conductors to ambient pressures where
arc-overs are pressure related.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimmers etc. |
There has been an on-going discussion regarding Trim Speed, Trim failure
management, Dual trim controls, etc. This makes a shoe lace tied to a trim
cable spring seem like a good idea.
I too, have a MAC servo for the elevator trim (for a complete exposition of
this device see my website), and I am planning to make a Cessna-type trim
wheel in the center console. This will alleviate some of the problems.
I would like to suggest a short list of considerations:
Runaway trim:
1) If you want to keep the stock pushbuttons, they must be environmentally
sealed and top quality.
2) If you think you can pull a breaker to remedy a runaway trim....you have
more faith that I have.
Dual operation:
3) How do you KNOW there is a trim runaway???? You might only feel something
is really amiss. Or maybe you could figure it out but John Denver might not.
Dual control:
1) A center console wheel is really functional. There are many
"both-pilot-operated" controls, and that's why they are centered between the
pilots.
2) A lot of dual control schemes make for more complications.
Fail safe designs:
1) Making a trim servo that is substantially fool-proof is not impossible.
What you want is probably a "neutral-center-on-control failure" scheme. The
idea is that a working control system must update the trim servo
periodically...a "watch-dog", and tell it that everything is okay. If this
does not happen, the trim servo centers automatically. (A little explosive
bolt might do!).
2) Make redundant trim tab systems. (And I don't mean so each pilot can have
one, although this might solve the dual control problem too!)
3) Futaba servo controllers can be made to self-center if everything else
goes bonkers. These R/C guys are clever.
Trim Speed:
1) The "Cessna-wheel" handles this automatically--sort of.
2) Use the Tach output to drive a F-V+ converter. The V+ is the voltage to
the servo.
3) Use the pitot pressure line to a little pressure sensor and op amp. The
output is V+ as above
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and
wrong.
- H. L. Mencken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
In a message dated 4/29/2004 9:55:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mdthomson(at)attglobal.net writes:
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
> altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
> plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
> there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
> spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
>
> Thanks
>
>
I am running MSD ignition on my fire breathing V-8 Ford. MSD stuff is working
out great, the wires you are talking about are 8.5mm not 14 mm and my radios
are very quiet running their best wires. Unless you are running up in the
20,000 + msl range I doubt there will be a misfire issue.
Ben Haas N801BH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Coax type rg-142B vs Rg-400 |
I was reading over the SL30 nav - com install guide and came across a
question for the experts. It states to use RG-142B for the coax leads or a
comparable quality 50 ohm coax.
I think rg-400 is 50 ohm but what are the other differences between the two
and which is "better" and why?
Thanks
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | radio ariel placement |
I asked this a few days ago but did not see ANY replies. Sorry if it is to
be too simple to be worthy of comment. Can anyone please help? Thanks,
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Sampson
Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio ariel placement
I would like to put my 45 bent RAMI radio antenna on the belly about its
own length from one of the gear legs which is oriented in approvimately the
same plane. (Its an RV9a.) Is this likely to present serious radio problems?
Thanks, Steve.
PS The transponder will be a similar distance from the other gear leg
pointing vertically down.
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
Malcolm Thomson wrote:
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
> altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
> plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
> there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
> spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
I'm not sure I can see any reason this would be physically possible. At higher
altitudes, air is less dense. Air is a pretty good insulator already, and the
less dense it gets, the BETTER it gets (a true vacuum being a 'perfect'
insulator). Remember, electrical flow is the movement of electrons from atom
to atom. If there aren't atoms for the electrons to hop between, they can't
move. The farther apart the atoms are, the more incentive (voltage) it takes
to get them moving.
There are other things that could cause you trouble at high altitudes, though,
like managing proper leaning. I suppose I could imagine certain ways this
could cause engine trouble (like boosting too much with a turbo and triggering
detonation), but they're best left to an engine-related list. Actually, I
suppose I can think of another. If your ECU doesn't know how to handle high
altitudes (and many auto engine ECUs are designed by default for a certain
maximum altitude in their map tables - there aren't a lot of 18,000-ft
mountains you can drive up) the ECU itself could cause some misfires.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hello Malcom,
What kind of airplane are you putting the Falconer on? My airplane
is based at the Nampa airport where they build Thundermustangs.
An impressive package.
>
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
> altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
> plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
Most ignition systems will suffer from this issue if they are used at high
enough altitude. The question is how good is the insulation on the wire
vs. how hot the spark is (and what the routing of the wires is). At
altitude,
most magneto ignitions suffer from shorting within the distributor before
shorting between wires - that's why many forced induction aircraft engines
have pressurized mags - they are usually the only ones flying high enough
to worry about it.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
> there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
> spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
As has been discussed on this list before, denser air (a composition of
non-conductive gasses) is a better insulator (higher dielectric breakdown
capability). As the air gets thinner, its propensity to conduct increases.
Here's a commonly published chart of dielectric strength:
Material* Dielectric strength (kV/inch)
===========================================
Vacuum ------------------- 20
Air ---------------------- 20 to 75
Porcelain ---------------- 40 to 200
Paraffin Wax ------------- 200 to 300
Transformer Oil ---------- 400
Bakelite ----------------- 300 to 550
Rubber ------------------- 450 to 700
Shellac ------------------ 900
Paper -------------------- 1250
Teflon ------------------- 1500
Glass -------------------- 2000 to 3000
Mica --------------------- 5000
You can see that Vacuum will break down at around 20kV with a 1" gap,
whereas dense air might hold up to 75kV over the same gap. This
phenomena is commonly seen in spark plug testers. A plug that works
properly at atmospheric pressure may display shorts when the gap is
exposed to pressurized air (which has even higher dielectric strength).
You may be able to rig up shielded style spark plug leads for your engine,
but
I suspect that high quality automotive wires are better in this regard
than the
60 year old technology of aircraft style wires which were design with mag
ignition that made only about 20kV on a good day. You should be able to get
data from the wire manufacturers.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hello Bob,
I wonder about this... I was thinking that the total dielectric strength
resisting
arcing between wires is the combined dielectric strength of the insulators
present. It seems that OEMs usually make an effort to physically seperate
ignition leads, and my impression was that this reduced the chances of cross
fire. This suggests to me that the design depends to some extent on the
dielectric properties of the air surrounding the wires. I suppose that
the common
spark wire insulators may have such a vastly larger dielectric strength
than air or
vacuum that wire spacing may be required for chafe resistance or some other
mechanical issue.
> If someone is having altitude related, high voltage problems, it's not
> with wire. Dielectric strength is a function of insulation material
> and thickness which does not vary with altitude. However, connections
> NOT totally enclosed in insulation (like interface between wire and
> some form of connector) exposes conductors to ambient pressures where
> arc-overs are pressure related.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Spark plug wires... |
Yes, it's an almost finished Thunder Mustang. I have been building it
for the last 5 years but now it is getting close.
M.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Spark plug wires...
-->
Hello Malcom,
What kind of airplane are you putting the Falconer on? My airplane is
based at the Nampa airport where they build Thundermustangs. An
impressive package.
>
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at
> "high altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through
> the spark plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
Most ignition systems will suffer from this issue if they are used at
high
enough altitude. The question is how good is the insulation on the
wire
vs. how hot the spark is (and what the routing of the wires is). At
altitude, most magneto ignitions suffer from shorting within the
distributor before shorting between wires - that's why many forced
induction aircraft engines have pressurized mags - they are usually the
only ones flying high enough to worry about it.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and
> is there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified
> aircraft) spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
As has been discussed on this list before, denser air (a composition of
non-conductive gasses) is a better insulator (higher dielectric
breakdown capability). As the air gets thinner, its propensity to
conduct increases.
Here's a commonly published chart of dielectric strength:
Material* Dielectric strength (kV/inch)
===========================================
Vacuum ------------------- 20
Air ---------------------- 20 to 75
Porcelain ---------------- 40 to 200
Paraffin Wax ------------- 200 to 300
Transformer Oil ---------- 400
Bakelite ----------------- 300 to 550
Rubber ------------------- 450 to 700
Shellac ------------------ 900
Paper -------------------- 1250
Teflon ------------------- 1500
Glass -------------------- 2000 to 3000
Mica --------------------- 5000
You can see that Vacuum will break down at around 20kV with a 1" gap,
whereas dense air might hold up to 75kV over the same gap. This
phenomena is commonly seen in spark plug testers. A plug that works
properly at atmospheric pressure may display shorts when the gap is
exposed to pressurized air (which has even higher dielectric strength).
You may be able to rig up shielded style spark plug leads for your
engine, but I suspect that high quality automotive wires are better in
this regard than the 60 year old technology of aircraft style wires
which were design with mag ignition that made only about 20kV on a good
day. You should be able to get data from the wire manufacturers.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: radio ariel placement |
Steve Sampson wrote:
> I would like to put my 45 bent RAMI radio antenna on the belly about its
> own length from one of the gear legs which is oriented in approvimately the
> same plane. (Its an RV9a.) Is this likely to present serious radio problems?
No, that should work OK. You may get some shading off to the side from the gear
legs but coverage fore/aft should be good.
> PS The transponder will be a similar distance from the other gear leg
> pointing vertically down.
You are more likely to have a problem with this. The gear leg fairings on my RV-4
did noticably shade my xpdr antenna. Best to get that as much in the clear
as possible.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
What kind of plane is the V12 being mounted in? Got some pics?
Sid
------------------
>I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
>electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
>are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
>altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
>plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: radio ariel placement |
Hi Steve,
I have seen many mounted the same as you describe. My radio guy says mine
will be fine mounted the same.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: FW: AeroElectric-List: radio ariel placement
>
> I asked this a few days ago but did not see ANY replies. Sorry if it is to
> be too simple to be worthy of comment. Can anyone please help? Thanks,
> Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
> Sampson
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio ariel placement
>
>
>
>
> I would like to put my 45 bent RAMI radio antenna on the belly about its
> own length from one of the gear legs which is oriented in approvimately
the
> same plane. (Its an RV9a.) Is this likely to present serious radio
problems?
>
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> PS The transponder will be a similar distance from the other gear leg
> pointing vertically down.
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net> |
A Thunder Mustang. See www.thundermustang.com
M.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hausding, sid
Subject: AeroElectric-List: plug wires...
-->
What kind of plane is the V12 being mounted in? Got some pics? Sid
------------------
>I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
>electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
>are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
>altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
>plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
I recall reading a Corky Meyer story some years ago where he described a
practical example of this. He and his fellow Grumman test-pilots were
test-flying Hellcats (?) to higher altitudes (27,000 - 28,00 ft or so) and
had a series of "interesting" engine failures which recovered at lower
altitudes. Problem - what to do?
After a brief discussion with his opposite number at Chance-Vought flying
Corsairs (the competition!) the answer turned out to be pressurized ignition
harnesses. These were procured with some difficulty (higher priority users -
there was a war on...) and solved the problem.
Really big P&W radial engines & mid to high 20,000 ft altitudes. No quite
homebuilt territory really.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Spark plug wires...
>
> I am using an automotive type engine (Falconer V12) which uses
> electronic ignition and MSD high quality ignition wires. Spark plugs
> are automotive 14mm. I have heard that the engine may misfire at "high
> altitudes" due to the ignition spark finding a ground through the spark
> plug wires or arcing to other spark plug wires.
>
> My first question is why does a higher altitude make this show up and is
> there a better (more like those plug wires used on a certified aircraft)
> spark plug wire that can be used to prevent this?
>
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lights |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Jim -
What are you using for the shell for your maplight?
Are you taking an original and modifying it for a LED or 2 or 3?
Is it a gooseneck?
Thanks,
John
> LED sources are getting very efficient, and for my map light aimed at
> the lap, I will be > using Luxeon Stars, which run $12 to $14, and can
> be had in white, red, and other colors, with and without an epoxy lens.
> With the lens, the unit is 1" square, and draws one watt. This works
> out to 350 ma at about 3 volts, so you need a 30 ohm resistor if you
> want to run only one from the 14 volt battery. This also works well
> with a dimmer.
>
> Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trimmers etc. |
In a message dated 04/29/2004 12:23:57 PM Central Standard Time,
emjones(at)charter.net writes:
Dual operation:
3) How do you KNOW there is a trim runaway???? You might only feel something
is really amiss. Or maybe you could figure it out but John Denver might not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FWIW- if an uncommanded out-of-trim condition manifests itself (gee, why am I
pointed at the ground?!) or any other odd situation grabs my attention while
life is good, my laser guided finger finds the Master switch pronto- damn,
didn't need at those distractions anyway-
After allowing adrenaline to subside & get used to that warm feeling down
under, assess situation, realize what went down, gingerly turn on the E-bus feed
(trim/autopilot/flaps are on Main bus, no?) and have a "reasonably"
comfortable completion of flight...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - Aeroelectric -6A N51PW, 67 hrs & still grinnin' like a mule
eatin' briars!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ciolino <jbc2000(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries Where to buy online? |
try ebay.Prices are surprisingly low.
John Ciolino
Jim Stone wrote:
>
>I used Sunn battery in Jacksonville Fl. Great price and shipping on Odyssey
>680. http://www.sunnbattery.com/catalog.html
>Jim
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <ALWAYSPDG(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG Batteries Where to buy online?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I would like to ask the group where you might recommend to purchase a RG
>>battery online. I am looking to replace an existing PowerSonic PS-12180
>>
>>
>NB
>
>
>>battery.
>>
>>
>>Thanks, Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spark plug wires... |
| From: | "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
>> If someone is having altitude related, high voltage problems, it's
not with wire. Dielectric strength is a function of insulation
material
and thickness which does not vary with altitude. However, connections
NOT totally enclosed in insulation (like interface between wire and
some form of connector) exposes conductors to ambient pressures where
arc-overs are pressure related.
Bob . . .<<
Bob,
I think you are right - - if you assume the harness is in good condition
to begin with.
But if the harness has faults or cracks or pinholes - - then the
likelihood that these faults will turn into misfires to ground or
structure or other ignition wires will get progressively more likely
with altitude.
We just changed out a HARNESS only today. If completely solved the
problem with a turbocharged engine. We had already changed the plugs
and the mags. Both of those efforts helped only a little.
The engine ran fine up to about 13000'. Above that, even with the new
mags and plugs - - it was ugly.
New harness - - today - - and it ran like a top to 20,000'.
Regards George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: radio ariel placement |
In a message dated 04/29/2004 12:54:26 PM Central Standard Time,
SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu writes:
I would like to put my 45 bent RAMI radio antenna on the belly about its
own length from one of the gear legs which is oriented in approvimately the
same plane. (Its an RV9a.) Is this likely to present serious radio problems?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My 20$ special comm antenna is one of those cheesy bent-whip jobs from ACS
and it works beautifully with my Microair 760 mounted as you describe- I've
easily conversed with aircraft over 70 miles distant. My XPNDR is INOP ATT(at
this time) so I can't comment- but I located it just aft of the cowling on the
side opposite the comm antenna, FWIW.......
yeehaw! Mark -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
George Braly wrote:
>
>
>>> If someone is having altitude related, high voltage problems, it's
>
> not with wire. Dielectric strength is a function of insulation
> material
> and thickness which does not vary with altitude. However, connections
> NOT totally enclosed in insulation (like interface between wire and
> some form of connector) exposes conductors to ambient pressures where
> arc-overs are pressure related.
>
> Bob . . .<<
>
> Bob,
>
> I think you are right - - if you assume the harness is in good condition
> to begin with.
>
> But if the harness has faults or cracks or pinholes - - then the
> likelihood that these faults will turn into misfires to ground or
> structure or other ignition wires will get progressively more likely
> with altitude.
>
Actual experience is hard to argue with. If changing out the harness
fixed the problem, then there was a problem with the harness. The
question we are all having now is, "Why?"
All reason says that the insulation increases with altitude, so
obviously our reasoning is leaving something out.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
> Actual experience is hard to argue with. If changing out the harness
> fixed the problem, then there was a problem with the harness. The
> question we are all having now is, "Why?"
>
> All reason says that the insulation increases with altitude, so
> obviously our reasoning is leaving something out.
>
------------------------------------------------
Actually, insulation does not increase with altitude.
Bill schertz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics Cooling fans - blowers |
Okay, I am about to give up trying to figure this out,
Why are FAA TSO bla bla bla avionics cooling fans so special?? I know they
have all that paper work to drive the price up but other than that,
I mean they are brushless, Made of plastic and run from dc voltage either 12
or 24 volts?
So other than the TSO paper work what else makes them so expensive??
Is there something special there doing to contain EMI - RFI ??? I mean
computer cooling fans are dirt cheap, and able to cool electronics parts in
computers, why can't they be used for Experimental aircraft ?
Can anybody shed some light on this one ??
Thanks in advance
Jeff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Cooling fans - blowers |
>
>Okay, I am about to give up trying to figure this out,
>
>Why are FAA TSO bla bla bla avionics cooling fans so special??
>
They're not.
>I know they
>have all that paper work to drive the price up but other than that,
>
>I mean they are brushless, Made of plastic and run from dc voltage either 12
>or 24 volts?
>
Correct.
>
>So other than the TSO paper work what else makes them so expensive??
>
Nothing, other than the fact that those with certified aircraft must use
them by regulation and therefore the seller can get what the market will
bear.
>
>Is there something special there doing to contain EMI - RFI ???
>
No.
>I mean
>computer cooling fans are dirt cheap, and able to cool electronics parts in
>computers, why can't they be used for Experimental aircraft ?
>
They can. You can use anything you want in an experimental. That's why
it's an experimental.
Why would you suppose you can't?
>
>Can anybody shed some light on this one ??
>
You are required to use TSO'd parts only in certified aircraft, you can
use anything you deem suitable for the task at hand in an experimental.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Jeff.
>
Bob McC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Source for coax connectors |
Does anyone know of a good source for those right angle coax connectors
that go on the rear of the frames of a KT76A or a ICOM A200? They include
a cap and a ring clip, and are intended to have the coax shield soldered to
the connector. I bought a used KT76A and the one that is on the rack needs
replacing.
Thanks,
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimmers etc. |
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
> 3) How do you KNOW there is a trim runaway????
Uh, airplane pitches, rolls, or yaws in an undesired direction and it keeps getting
worse.
> You might only feel something
> is really amiss. Or maybe you could figure it out but John Denver might not.
Oh, you will know. And it will scare the s--t out of you when it happens.
> FWIW- if an uncommanded out-of-trim condition manifests itself (gee, why am I
> pointed at the ground?!) or any other odd situation grabs my attention while
> life is good, my laser guided finger finds the Master switch pronto- damn,
> didn't need at those distractions anyway-
This does not work for IFR flight using a glass attitude indicator. Dark clouds
and a dark panel do the anal sphincter no good.
It is for this reason that I am quite wary of an all-power trim system without
mechanical backup. A servo with a friction clutch driving a standard mechanical
trim system strikes me as a good balance. An electric servo embedded in the
horizontal stab as the only way to control pitch trim leaves a cold feeling
in the pit of my stomach when I contemplate electric trim failure scenarios.
Aircraft with low stick forces (the RV series comes to mind here) can be flown
without too much difficulty in a serious out-of-trim situation. Aircraft with
heavier stick forces might be unflyable. For this reason you should go try to
fly your airplane with the trim set to both stops to verify you have the strength
and control authority to land the airplane. Do it at altitude first please.
My RV-4 had the original pitch trim lever on the throttle quadrant. It was a bit
touchy but worked OK when you got used to it. It would have been relatively
easy to add electric trim to that yet still be able to overpower a runaway servo.
I know, electrical servos are very reliable but not as reliable as a push-pull
cable in my book.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Cooling fans - blowers |
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
> So other than the TSO paper work what else makes them so expensive??
Liability insurance for the manufacturer in addition to all the work they had to
go through for FAA/PMA/STC approval for permanent installation in certified
aircraft. Add that to the relatively small market and you have the formula for
high cost.
> Is there something special there doing to contain EMI - RFI ??? I mean
> computer cooling fans are dirt cheap, and able to cool electronics parts in
> computers, why can't they be used for Experimental aircraft ?
That is the beauty of experimental. You are free to try what you want. Computer
cooling fans are just fine.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pascal Gosselin <pascal(at)aeroteknic.com> |
Would really appreciate it someone could email or fax me a KMA-20 pinout.
fax (450) 676-2760
email pascal(at)aeroteknic.com
-Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrison Sem" <chasm711(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimmers etc. |
Get a three position switch, on, off, momentary on, wire it "up" normal on,
"center" off, "down" momentary on reverse. If the relay or switch sticks
you can turn it off and "bump" it back to in trim. That should cover most
failure modes. On my airplane the trim system also has one of the few
circutbreakers. If the servo fails its not a big deal in cruise and if the
trim is towards the stop and fails you should just be taking off or landing
so a quick return is easy. I worry more about pine bark beetles.
Paul Schattauer
rv8 #80009 N808PS
50 hrs and getting painted
>From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Trimmers etc.
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:58:31 +0100
>
>
>Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > 3) How do you KNOW there is a trim runaway????
>
>Uh, airplane pitches, rolls, or yaws in an undesired direction and it keeps
>getting worse.
>
> > You might only feel something
> > is really amiss. Or maybe you could figure it out but John Denver might
>not.
>
>Oh, you will know. And it will scare the s--t out of you when it happens.
>
> > FWIW- if an uncommanded out-of-trim condition manifests itself (gee, why
>am I
> > pointed at the ground?!) or any other odd situation grabs my attention
>while
> > life is good, my laser guided finger finds the Master switch pronto-
>damn,
> > didn't need at those distractions anyway-
>
>This does not work for IFR flight using a glass attitude indicator. Dark
>clouds and a dark panel do the anal sphincter no good.
>
>It is for this reason that I am quite wary of an all-power trim system
>without mechanical backup. A servo with a friction clutch driving a
>standard mechanical trim system strikes me as a good balance. An electric
>servo embedded in the horizontal stab as the only way to control pitch trim
>leaves a cold feeling in the pit of my stomach when I contemplate electric
>trim failure scenarios.
>
>Aircraft with low stick forces (the RV series comes to mind here) can be
>flown without too much difficulty in a serious out-of-trim situation.
>Aircraft with heavier stick forces might be unflyable. For this reason you
>should go try to fly your airplane with the trim set to both stops to
>verify you have the strength and control authority to land the airplane.
>Do it at altitude first please.
>
>My RV-4 had the original pitch trim lever on the throttle quadrant. It was
>a bit touchy but worked OK when you got used to it. It would have been
>relatively easy to add electric trim to that yet still be able to overpower
>a runaway servo.
>
>I know, electrical servos are very reliable but not as reliable as a
>push-pull cable in my book.
>
>--
>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
>brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
>http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
>+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
>There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
>A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Coax placement |
Thank you all for the replies, it doesn't appear there are any reasons to
"separate" the coax runs, I will keep the antennas separated as much as possible.
I was planning on rg400 coax, I don't know about LMR400 coax.
Cliff, the Monry 300 traffic detector is highly praised in the Cessna forum,
as I understand the best reception is to put a transponder antenna top and
bottam and run into a splitter instead of using the "portable" antenna. I
haven't bought one yet but since I was in the "antenna" mode of the project I am
going to put them in. I don't remember the type of splitter to use, I did email
to the company and they explained what to use I can get it if you need.
Sincerely, Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sean Spencer" <sean.s(at)cnwltd.com> |
I just faxed it to that number if you cannot read it let me know and I
will try to scan it and email it.
Sean
509-886-1036 or 2516
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pascal Gosselin
Subject: AeroElectric-List: KMA-20 Pinout ?
Would really appreciate it someone could email or fax me a KMA-20
pinout.
fax (450) 676-2760
email pascal(at)aeroteknic.com
-Pascal
==
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
While organizing the "stuff" behind my panel, I realized that I have four instruments
that require connection to the static line; altimeter, EFIS, autopilot,
and blind encoder.
Is it okay to just hook these up in series? Should I tee the line and put two
on one branch and two on the other? Does it make any difference?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Randy
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
>
> Would really appreciate it someone could email or fax me a KMA-20 pinout.
>
> fax (450) 676-2760
>
> email pascal(at)aeroteknic.com
>
> -Pascal
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimmers etc. |
Garrison Sem wrote:
>
>
> Get a three position switch, on, off, momentary on, wire it "up" normal on,
> "center" off, "down" momentary on reverse. If the relay or switch sticks
> you can turn it off and "bump" it back to in trim. That should cover most
> failure modes. On my airplane the trim system also has one of the few
> circutbreakers. If the servo fails its not a big deal in cruise and if the
> trim is towards the stop and fails you should just be taking off or landing
> so a quick return is easy. I worry more about pine bark beetles.
RVs are less of a problem because of their low stick forces but a fair number of
people will still have trouble landing their airplane with the trim at the stops.
Before you dismiss my concerns so offhandedly I still suggest you try flying your
airplane with the trim at the stops. My experience with trim runaway is that
the first reaction is to freeze and ask what's going on and/or counter the
trim force with the stick and *then* realize your trim servo is running away.
The next momentary lapse will be to realize you have to pull the breaker/fuse/switch.
I bet that more than a couple of seconds will elapse.
Now your airplane is seriously out of trim. And whatever trim setting it is at
is probably going to be something very very different from the trim setting you
normally use on short final for landing. Better to find out at altitude when
you are expecting the problem than when you are on short final and the switch
sticks as you trim nose-up as you set up for flare. Most people have never
had to hold forward pressure on the stick to land. Any other momentary lapse
of attention is asking for a low-altitude stall incident (accident?) in that
situation.
Too many people think about how things work and not enough think about how they
fail.
I also know that few people have had an airplane totally scare the s--t out of
them.
> Paul Schattauer
> rv8 #80009 N808PS
> 50 hrs and getting painted
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Source |
F1Rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> While organizing the "stuff" behind my panel, I realized that I have
> four instruments that require connection to the static line;
> altimeter, EFIS, autopilot, and blind encoder.
>
> Is it okay to just hook these up in series?
Yes.
> Should I tee the line
> and put two on one branch and two on the other?
Not necessary.
> Does it make any difference?
No. The static line has no fluid flow in it so it just needs to ensure that all
the attached devices are at the same pressure. Make sure there are no leaks
and you are good to go.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sean Spencer" <sean.s(at)cnwltd.com> |
Static air is just that there is no flow through it only pressure
changes it will make no difference in the system how you route your
lines. The system all comes from one point inless you have a alt.
system, the only benift to running them in series or through a manifold
would be organization some times its keeps the area behind the panel
cleaner and easier to make changes later.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
F1Rocket(at)comcast.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Static Source
While organizing the "stuff" behind my panel, I realized that I have
four instruments that require connection to the static line; altimeter,
EFIS, autopilot, and blind encoder.
Is it okay to just hook these up in series? Should I tee the line and
put two on one branch and two on the other? Does it make any
difference?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Randy
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
>
> Would really appreciate it someone could email or fax me a KMA-20
pinout.
>
> fax (450) 676-2760
>
> email pascal(at)aeroteknic.com
>
> -Pascal
>
>
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Source |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> No. The static line has no fluid flow in it so it just needs to ensure
> that all the attached devices are at the same pressure. Make sure there
> are no leaks and you are good to go.
Another question on the same topic. I've seen people install static
reservoirs, basically small sealed bottles on a T in the static line. I know
these help stabilize instrument displays, especially altitude, especially in
turbulence. But just how much do they help? Are they worth the effort, or is
it really something for certain types of flying, like acrobatic, or hard-IFR?
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Source |
Chad Robinson wrote:
> Another question on the same topic. I've seen people install static
> reservoirs, basically small sealed bottles on a T in the static line. I know
> these help stabilize instrument displays, especially altitude, especially in
> turbulence. But just how much do they help? Are they worth the effort, or is
> it really something for certain types of flying, like acrobatic, or hard-IFR?
If you increase the volume you end up with flow in the static line between the
reservoir and the static port. But the purpose may not be to stabilize the displays.
It may actually be a water trap to keep liquid from reaching your instruments,
not entirely a bad idea. The Russian (Yak) and Chinese (Nanchang) aircraft
with which I am familiar have these small reservoirs in both the static
and pitot lines. We check them for dirt and water at 100 hour intervals.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: F1Rocket(at)comcast.net
<< While organizing the "stuff" behind my panel, I realized that I have four
instruments
that require connection to the static line; altimeter, EFIS, autopilot, and
blind encoder. Is it okay to just hook these up in series? Should I tee the
line and put two on one branch and two on the other? Does it make any
difference? Inquiring minds would like to know. Randy>>
5/1/2004
Hello Randy, Some additional things to consider when creating your static
source installation:
1) A low point moisture trap and drain if you ever get water in your static
system.
2) A means of creating an alternate static source from inside the cockpit if
your outside source(s) get plugged up.
3) Dual external static ports so that slip and skid do not generate instantly
false static.
pressures.
4) The possibility that you will need to move your initial static port
location(s) because it gives poor results. A less likely problem if experience
from
other similar airplanes have successfully used the same spot(s) that you are
using.
5) The potential of fine tuning your external static port(s) with wedges, in
order to avoid having to move them, in order to obtain a more accurate
airspeed reading at the indicated airspeeds that you are really interested in
(approach airspeeds rather than cruise airspeeds).
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | radio ariel placement |
Thanks for all the help. Steve.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning corrrectly --
but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the documentaiton
that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to work.
Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific directions.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
> -->
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> flightplan feature?
>
> I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak, I
> get the bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> flightplan shows up with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
>
> Any advice much appreciated
>
> crossposted on Avionics list
>
> Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
Larry,
I did as their directions say, but it's not working =(;o((
And my plane is flying, just not according to the activated flightplan, just
GPS bearings.
Thanks
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
> I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning corrrectly --
> but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the documentaiton
> that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to work.
> Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific directions.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Hello Folks,
> >
> > who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> > flightplan feature?
> >
> > I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak, I
> > get the bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> > flightplan shows up with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
> >
> > Any advice much appreciated
> >
> > crossposted on Avionics list
> >
> > Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob G" <rpgross(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | More electric trim stuff.... |
Fellow electron people/aviators,
I built an electronic trim system/altitude hold in my Rocket and it continues to
work well. My buddy is also building an F1 Rocket and prompted me to build him
a similar system. Why mention this here? Because many of the points mentioned
recently have been addressed.
In short, this tiny box accepts two sets of trim buttons, provides two trim motor
speeds via PWM (pulse width modulation), gives limited runaway trim protection
and replaces mechanical relays with highly reliable solid state components.
It also uses logic to give the pilots trim buttons priority while ignoring the
other buttons. The pilot may also disable the other guys buttons anytime via
push button.
More entertainment is available here...
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/tcm.html
As this is still in development, your opinions are gladly accepted! (next years
model will have pitot static sense ports for true variable speed trim)
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
Oh. Sorry.
Give TruTrak a call Monday -- and let us know what the fix is.....
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 in progress.....
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:06 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
> -->
>
> Larry,
>
> I did as their directions say, but it's not working =(;o((
>
> And my plane is flying, just not according to the activated
> flightplan, just GPS bearings.
>
> Thanks
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
>
> >
> > I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning
> corrrectly --
> > but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the
> documentaiton
> > that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to work.
> > Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific directions.
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> > >
> > >
> > > -->
> > >
> > > Hello Folks,
> > >
> > > who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> > > flightplan feature?
> > >
> > > I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak,
> I get the
> > > bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> flightplan shows up
> > > with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
> > >
> > > Any advice much appreciated
> > >
> > > crossposted on Avionics list
> > >
> > > Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
> >
> >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Source for lower prices on fuseblocks |
I just got back form the AeroElectric Seminar in Nashville. Before I
went I was doing a search for the Buss Blade Type Fuseblocks that are
used in Bob's wiring systems. I found the exact same fuseblocks on this
website: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ they have the best prices I
have found. I just ordered 1 of each 6,10,20. Bob asked me to let
everybody know, so there you go!
Someone brought a catalog of electrical supplies that Bob really liked
also. I went to there website http://www.waytekwire.com/ and tried to
request a catalog but got an error so I'll call them Monday and request one.
Really good seminar, good information, and I won a BNC crimping tool :-)
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for lower prices on fuseblocks |
Dang! Wish I'd know about that seminar. I'm only about 100 miles from
Nashville and would have gone had I known 8-(.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for lower prices on fuseblocks
>
> I just got back form the AeroElectric Seminar in Nashville. Before I
> went I was doing a search for the Buss Blade Type Fuseblocks that are
> used in Bob's wiring systems. I found the exact same fuseblocks on this
> website: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ they have the best prices I
> have found. I just ordered 1 of each 6,10,20. Bob asked me to let
> everybody know, so there you go!
>
> Someone brought a catalog of electrical supplies that Bob really liked
> also. I went to there website http://www.waytekwire.com/ and tried to
> request a catalog but got an error so I'll call them Monday and request
one.
>
> Really good seminar, good information, and I won a BNC crimping tool :-)
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Source for lower prices on fuseblocks |
I've bought from Pegasus for years. Always great service, fast delivery,
reasonably low prices - I can sometimes find better prices, but never by
much. A good vendor to deal with, I keep going back.
At 02:49 PM 5/2/04, you wrote:
>
>
>I just got back form the AeroElectric Seminar in Nashville. Before I
>went I was doing a search for the Buss Blade Type Fuseblocks that are
>used in Bob's wiring systems. I found the exact same fuseblocks on this
>website: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ they have the best prices I
>have found. I just ordered 1 of each 6,10,20. Bob asked me to let
>everybody know, so there you go!
>
>Someone brought a catalog of electrical supplies that Bob really liked
>also. I went to there website http://www.waytekwire.com/ and tried to
>request a catalog but got an error so I'll call them Monday and request one.
>
>Really good seminar, good information, and I won a BNC crimping tool :-)
>
>--
>Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
>Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
>RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
| Subject: | ANL ring terminal |
Hi
Would anyone happen to know what size ring terminal fits the ANL fuse
holder. Can't seem to find the spec on the B&C site or the Bussman site.
thanks
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark plug wires... |
William wrote:
>-----------------------------------------------
>Actually, insulation does not increase with altitude.
>
>Bill schertz
>
>
Actually it does if you go high enough. But then the least of your
troubles would be ignition failures.
Planes do not fly well in a vacuum, nor do engines operate well :-) .
So, for all practical purposes you are correct.
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Cooling fans - blowers |
The comments below are all correct. However, if you want the el-cheapo
fans to work for long, make sure you get the ones with ball bearings
rather than sleeve bearings.
Dick Tasker
Robert McCallum wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Okay, I am about to give up trying to figure this out,
>>
>>Why are FAA TSO bla bla bla avionics cooling fans so special??
>>
>>
>>
>They're not.
>
>
>
>>I know they
>>have all that paper work to drive the price up but other than that,
>>
>>I mean they are brushless, Made of plastic and run from dc voltage either 12
>>or 24 volts?
>>
>>
>>
>Correct.
>
>
>
>>So other than the TSO paper work what else makes them so expensive??
>>
>>
>>
>Nothing, other than the fact that those with certified aircraft must use
>them by regulation and therefore the seller can get what the market will
>bear.
>
>
>
>>Is there something special there doing to contain EMI - RFI ???
>>
>>
>>
>No.
>
>
>
>>I mean
>>computer cooling fans are dirt cheap, and able to cool electronics parts in
>>computers, why can't they be used for Experimental aircraft ?
>>
>>
>>
>They can. You can use anything you want in an experimental. That's why
>it's an experimental.
>Why would you suppose you can't?
>
>
>
>>Can anybody shed some light on this one ??
>>
>>
>>
>You are required to use TSO'd parts only in certified aircraft, you can
>use anything you deem suitable for the task at hand in an experimental.
>
>
>
>>Thanks in advance
>>Jeff.
>>
>>
>>
>Bob McC
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wallace Enga <wenga(at)svtv.com> |
| Subject: | ANL ring terminal |
A 5/16" ring terminal fits snuggly around the one I have from B&C.
Wally Enga
>
>Hi
>Would anyone happen to know what size ring terminal fits the ANL fuse
>holder. Can't seem to find the spec on the B&C site or the Bussman site.
>thanks
>Ken
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | short Vans master relay stud length, again... |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
I know this has come up before...I've got the Vans master relay with the
oh-so-short little studs which will barely hold a single terminal let
alone the multiple ones that I need (battery lead, e-bus feed, Lightspeed
#1, and aux battery feed).
Before I toss it in the useless parts bin and order a manly B&C relay on
Viagra with a stud size worthy of my 21st Century electrical system, I'm
just curious as to why I can't stack the aformentioned terminals directly
on the + battery terminal? Seems I recall hearing somewhere that this is
bad practice, but can't think of how the physics of the connection would
be any different (i.e. less convenient or less secure) this way as
opposed to attaching them all to the master relay stud. But I don't have
my battery yet (planning Odyssey PC680) so I'm not sure if there are
issues I'm unaware of....
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fwf stuff....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: short Vans master relay stud length, again... |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I think its a matter of convenience... During the life of the
airplane, you will have to disconnect the battery many times. If
the battery lug has a bunch of stacked connecters, you have to
wrestle with all of the each time you disconnect the battery. If
they are attached to the contactor stud, they can remain in place.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
> Guys,
>
> I know this has come up before...I've got the Vans master relay with the
> oh-so-short little studs which will barely hold a single terminal let
> alone the multiple ones that I need (battery lead, e-bus feed,
> Lightspeed #1, and aux battery feed).
>
> Before I toss it in the useless parts bin and order a manly B&C relay on
> Viagra with a stud size worthy of my 21st Century electrical system, I'm
> just curious as to why I can't stack the aformentioned terminals
> directly on the + battery terminal? Seems I recall hearing somewhere
> that this is bad practice, but can't think of how the physics of the
> connection would be any different (i.e. less convenient or less secure)
> this way as opposed to attaching them all to the master relay stud. But
> I don't have my battery yet (planning Odyssey PC680) so I'm not sure if
> there are issues I'm unaware of....
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D fwf stuff....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Z-Document to Start From? |
| From: | "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott(at)commander.com> |
out of curiosity why 2 computers and also what 2 computers specifically, you may
be making a reliable system (the factory ECU) less reliable by replacing it
with 2 aftermarket systems, and how are you going to deal with the fact that there
are only one spark plug per cylinder?
Ian (owner of many a Subaru, though none in a plane)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenny Bauman [mailto:kennybauman(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-Document to Start From?
Bob,
What Z diagram would you recomend taking a look at for
the following:
Subaru engine
April 22, 2004 - May 03, 2004
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-dd