AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-df
May 17, 2004 - June 04, 2004
minimum weight of airplane structure, a minimum weight of power
plant consistent with the necessary performance, a minimum
weight of fuel, of lubricant, and of other essential equipment to accomplish
with a proper margin the intended voyage, may be considered as
detrimental but unavoidably so; in a sense an overhead charge against the
enterprise. Anything more than the minimum in these non-profitable loads may
reasonably be taken as parasitical and should be eliminated."
There are many ways to calculate how a pound will change your fortune and
fortunes.
Regarding Bob N's excellent note on the subject. $100 in 1964 is equivalent
to $606.45 in 2004 money. Yikes!
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
>
>Hey Chuck,
>What avionics did you install, and what is your exact address?
>JHSF,
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
>
>
>
> >
> > Is there an alarm system available for exp. aircraft that has been used.
>I
> > have a keyed door but, having just installed avionics that has the
> > equivalent value of the GNP of a developing nation, I'd like to give
> > potential thieves a better run for their money than some winky door lock.
> > An audible alarm and potentially activation of strobe and canard flashers
> > would seem to be a minimu. I assume some "good" solutions have been
>worked
> > out but didn't find it in the archives. Ideas?
How is your airplane to be stored? We had a tie-down tenant
on our airport relate his own experience with stolen radios:
Seems his C-182 was parked on a relatively unsecured field
(like ours at 1K1) and someone decided to take advantage of
the situation and removed all the radios from his airplane.
To get at the radios, he put a crowbar into the gap between
trailing edge of door and doorpost to pry it open. In addition
to getting the radios, damage to the aircraft was about $2,000.
Some years later, his airplane was entered while parked on
an away field. A flight bag with hand-helds and other pilot's
tools were stolen. The insurance company initially balked at
the claim, "You didn't lock the airplane." The guy sent
a copy of the repair bill for the door on the earlier
event and suggested that locking the door would not have
prevented anyone from getting into the airplane . . . and
would only increase the size of the claim. They paid the
claim with no further protest.
Bottom line is, what do you REALLY expect any barrier between
thief and valuables to accomplish? Locks only keep honest people
honest . . . if someone wants the stuff in your airplane,
fragile barriers are only an inconvenience.
You might be better off locking a hangar door (the most
robust barrier) and leaving the airplane unlocked. Once
the thief is inside the hangar, the question is not whether
or not he walks away with your stuff, it's a question of
total cost to put things right. New canopy? Lots of chop-n-hack
on your sheet metal with doublers inside at the joints where
buggered sheet metal was cut out?
Many folks who parked airplanes on 1K1 didn't lock doors . . .
for exactly the reason cited above. Given the number of
car alarms that annoy the populace-at-large, I'm not
sure I'd put much faith in the value of making some ADDITIONAL
noise when a thief hammers a hole in your windshield.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Locks only keep out the honest thieves, and alarms
are there to let you know that your stuff was just
stolen.
The only good alarm system I ever found was the old
retired guy next door. He told one ruffian who was
walking the neighborhood, knocking on doors to get
the time that he would "wind his watch" if he ever
saw him around again. I miss Smitty.
The only safe place to put your airplane will be at
a airport small and friendly enough for people to
know you and large enough to constantly having those
people coming and going.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Just like you don't have to be able to outrun a Grizzly but you do have to
be able to outrun the guy you are hiking with when the Grizzly charges, you
don't have to make it impossible for some jerk to steal your radios; just
less convenient than stealing someone else's radios.
It would seem to me that an alarm would be a better deterrent than a lock.
If he is going to ignore the alarm he still doesn't have to break your
canopy to get your avionics. I would think the decision about an alarm
would depend on cost, weight, inconvenience, and risk. I don't like car
alarms and I like false car alarms even less, but I can see that a similar
alarm on an airplane might make sense under some circumstances.
Locks do not keep honest people from stealing your stuff. Crooks steal your
stuff. Honest people leave it alone.
Terry
RV-8A wiring, probably without an alarm
Bottom line is, what do you REALLY expect any barrier between
thief and valuables to accomplish? Locks only keep honest people
honest . . . if someone wants the stuff in your airplane,
fragile barriers are only an inconvenience.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
>
>
>
> How is your airplane to be stored? We had a tie-down tenant
> on our airport relate his own experience with stolen radios:
>
> Seems his C-182 was parked on a relatively unsecured field
> (like ours at 1K1) and someone decided to take advantage of
> the situation and removed all the radios from his airplane.
snip
Hi Bob,
While I generally agree with everything you said, I think there
are some technological solutions that might bear consideration.
For instance, there are cell phone modules that can be interfaced
to car alarms so that setting off the system causes you (or your
airplane's appointed guardian to get a phone call (or email or text
page). Obviously, this only works if you have cell phone service
where the plane is parked. Another down side is that you have
to decide what action you want to take in response to an alert. Do
you immediately rush to the plane? If it's parked across town,
probably not...
Another option is to set up a motion sensing security camera
system. Here's one with a wireless interface.
http://www.x10.com/home/offer.cgi?!PLAT,../x10search4.htm#
I could imagine placing this unit on the glare shield so that any would
be thief gets his picture taken. The camera and recording
unit should be located seperately to minimize the chance that
the attacker removes/destroys both items. If the plane is parked
outside, rig up a solar panel to allow for battery operation.
It would be relatively simple to set the system up so it emails you
snapshots of anything interesting going on with the airplane. This
would be nice since the recording device (the hard drive on your
home computer) isn't accessible by the thief. Sure, you would
probably get a bunch of bogus shots of birds or leaves flying around,
but you can delete all of those if nothing ever gets stolen. Set up
a cron on your linux pc to take care of it....
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
>
>>
>>
>
>>
>> How is your airplane to be stored? We had a tie-down tenant
>> on our airport relate his own experience with stolen radios:
>>
>> Seems his C-182 was parked on a relatively unsecured field
>> (like ours at 1K1) and someone decided to take advantage of
>> the situation and removed all the radios from his airplane.
>snip
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>While I generally agree with everything you said, I think there
>are some technological solutions that might bear consideration.
>
>For instance, there are cell phone modules that can be interfaced
>to car alarms so that setting off the system causes you (or your
>airplane's appointed guardian to get a phone call (or email or text
>page). Obviously, this only works if you have cell phone service
>where the plane is parked. Another down side is that you have
>to decide what action you want to take in response to an alert. Do
>you immediately rush to the plane? If it's parked across town,
>probably not...
>
>Another option is to set up a motion sensing security camera
>system. Here's one with a wireless interface.
>
>http://www.x10.com/home/offer.cgi?!PLAT,../x10search4.htm#
>
>I could imagine placing this unit on the glare shield so that any would
>be thief gets his picture taken. The camera and recording
>unit should be located seperately to minimize the chance that
>the attacker removes/destroys both items. If the plane is parked
>outside, rig up a solar panel to allow for battery operation.
>
>It would be relatively simple to set the system up so it emails you
>snapshots of anything interesting going on with the airplane. This
>would be nice since the recording device (the hard drive on your
>home computer) isn't accessible by the thief. Sure, you would
>probably get a bunch of bogus shots of birds or leaves flying around,
>but you can delete all of those if nothing ever gets stolen. Set up
>a cron on your linux pc to take care of it....
>
>Regards,
>
>Matt-
>VE N34RD
If I were an avionics thief, and I learned that someone had gone to
this much trouble to protect their stuff, I might conclude that there
must be a lot of dollars of avionics in that panel. It would seem a
simple job to put on some sort of Halloween mask while stealing the
loot.
So, you might get a picture during the first robbery. But the next
ones to steal your stuff would be ready for your camera.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
I am in total agreement....but is it really the threat of an alarm, or the
alarm itself that prevents the more time consuming break-ins? Nothing but
bullet-proof glass and armor is going to stop a smash and grab, but to
remove a radio takes a little longer (although, not much).
So, what can we do? (Aside from the obvious hangars, well lit areas,
supervision, clean cockpit, etc.)
Install ye old blinking LED from Radio Shack, a resistor, and a very small
switch (less than $5 and won't drain batteries) in an obvious place. From
the outside, you can't tell the deference between a "real" alarm and a fake,
but it has EXACTLY the same deterrence factor. I've had one on every
vehicle I have ever owned - not a single problem. But I also leave nothing
in open view that might tempt the "smash and grab" artist. Your mileage may
vary...but given the simplistic approach...what do you have to loose?
Besides, if the guys is hell-bent on getting in or stealing the plane
itself...nothing you can do besides being within tackling distance will
prevent it. Even then....
Food for thought,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> It would seem to me that an alarm would be a better deterrent than a lock.
> If he is going to ignore the alarm he still doesn't have to break your
> canopy to get your avionics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Good point... The thief camera would catch the dumb ones (which,
fortuneately, most are). As well, many GA airports now have security
cams. A cockpit cam would make the detective work much easier...
Like "Hmm, my airplane was broken into around 3AM this morning. Let
me call the airport and talk to the manager and find out what cars were
wandering around the ramp at that time"
My hope, like others have expressed, is to make stealing my stuff
inconvenient/risky enough that the average felon goes elsewhere to ply
their trade. I fully realize that keeping the 'Gone in 60 seconds' crowd
out of my stuff is pretty difficult. I think most of the bad guys aren't
that
good, however.
MAP
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> How is your airplane to be stored? We had a tie-down tenant on
>>> our airport relate his own experience with stolen radios:
>>>
>>> Seems his C-182 was parked on a relatively unsecured field
>>> (like ours at 1K1) and someone decided to take advantage of
>>> the situation and removed all the radios from his airplane.
>>snip
>>
>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>While I generally agree with everything you said, I think there
>>are some technological solutions that might bear consideration.
>>
snip
> must be a lot of dollars of avionics in that panel. It would seem a
> simple job to put on some sort of Halloween mask while stealing the
> loot.
>
> So, you might get a picture during the first robbery. But the next
> ones to steal your stuff would be ready for your camera.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
The usual alarms don't do anything but annoy the neighbors (as already
pointed out in another post) but there is an effective way to use an alarm.
Put the noise INSIDE the cockpit, preferably a system capable of putting out
at least 80dB - more is better - of continuous sound and make sure that the
alarm and speaker and their wires are secured, as should be the source of
power to the alarm. No thief will sit in the cockpit long enough to trace
the wires especially if the wires are hard to find and are inside a metal
conduit, let alone stay long enough to remove the expensive stuff. Of
course if you leave your ANR headset in the cockpit (or the thief brings his
own, perhaps stolen from another aircraft on the ramp) this probably won't
work.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
Is there an alarm system available for exp. aircraft that has been used. I
have a keyed door but, having just installed avionics that has the
equivalent value of the GNP of a developing nation, I'd like to give
potential thieves a better run for their money than some winky door lock.
An audible alarm and potentially activation of strobe and canard flashers
would seem to be a minimu. I assume some "good" solutions have been worked
out but didn't find it in the archives. Ideas?
Chuck, in East Tennessee
Velocity XLRG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
James Redmon wrote:
> Besides, if the guys is hell-bent on getting in or stealing the plane
> itself...nothing you can do besides being within tackling distance will
> prevent it. Even then....
And what if the thief is after the alarm itself? Those are worth at least $50.
=)
This sounds like a market for instrument panel "fakers", authentic-looking
overlays with nothing behind them that sit in front of your real instrument
panel and make it look like your BEST instrument is this classic Narco VTR-1:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=419&item=2244525508&rd=1
and your attitude gyro is this bad boy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2478740682&category=26436
You'd have to have enough of an overhang/surround to make it look authentic,
but if you were clever about it... Let 'em wonder how you get it in the air at
all! =)
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
I'll add my bit to the discussion. The other comments were very
appropriate, but here is how I calculated it: My current airplane is worth
about $60,000 and carries about 600 pounds. $100 per pound. I don't carry
all 600 pounds very often, but when I do an extra pound would be valuable.
The important thing is that once you set a value use the discipline to stick
to it. I've set it at $100 and so far have paid for things that cost
$50/pound, like throwing away all the nylon locknuts that came with the kit
and buying all-metal locking nuts - average of $48/pound.
One of our customers related that for a military aircraft project they were
giving an incentive of $1,000/pound. For cars I've heard of $1/pound. I
think anything from $50 on up would make sense. Just don't do what some of
the OEM's do and worry about the airframe for hours, but when the time comes
to add the last 10% of the stuff they seem to figure "oh, well, what's an
extra pound?" Just from the few things they buy from us they could save
maybe a pound for very little effort, but they don't seem to be interested.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Hello Rob,
Monday, May 17, 2004, 5:43:13 PM, you wrote:
RH> Put the noise INSIDE the cockpit, preferably a system capable of putting out
RH> at least 80dB - more is better - of continuous sound
And then, what happens when it goes off while doing an instrument
approach to minimums?
--
Best regards,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:25 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Weight savings
>
> I'll add my bit to the discussion. The other
comments were very
> appropriate, but here is how I calculated it: My
current airplane
> is worth
> about $60,000 and carries about 600 pounds. $100
per pound. I
> don't carry
> all 600 pounds very often, but when I do an extra
pound would be
> valuable.
I like the way you look at it, but I don't like the
number that it gives me. My best guesstimate is
that my project will end up around $20K, and I'm
aiming for $15. The useful load is around 1100lb.
That comes out to only $18/lb. I just KNOW that I'm
willing to pay more than that. A certified ship
bought new with the same capacity would sell for
somewhere around $350K. That come out to around
$320/lb.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
>>And then, what happens when it goes off while doing an instrument
approach to minimums?<<
Focus, Man!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
> RH> Put the noise INSIDE the cockpit, preferably a
system capable
> of putting out
> RH> at least 80dB - more is better - of
continuous sound
>
>
> And then, what happens when it goes off while
doing an instrument
> approach to minimums?
>
> --
Full power to gain some altitude, then pull the damn
fuse out and put it back in your pocket where it
belongs!! 8*)
How about a cut-off switch in the gear legs?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Does $20K include paying yourself for your labor? If you buy a
certified ship, labor is included...
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
snip
>> valuable.
>
> I like the way you look at it, but I don't like the
> number that it gives me. My best guesstimate is
> that my project will end up around $20K, and I'm
> aiming for $15. The useful load is around 1100lb.
> That comes out to only $18/lb. I just KNOW that I'm
> willing to pay more than that. A certified ship
> bought new with the same capacity would sell for
> somewhere around $350K. That come out to around
> $320/lb.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
> From: James Redmon (james(at)berkut13.com)
>Date: Mon May 17 - 12:39 PM
>the backup 2 1/4" AS and ALT instruments are
> powered by the "add-on" glow strip rings that are powered by a DC-AC
>inverter. The inverter is hooked up to the same panel dimmer and it
does
>dim...but not nearly enough. They are still way-to-bright for night
ops,
>while some radio lights are at about zero illumination.
>The question is, how can I achieve additional dimming on those
instruments
>without sacrificing too much full-bright range? I can stand a little
>degradation, but not too much as the blue/green light makes them
stand-out
>from under the long canopy cover.
Electroluminescent lights are driven by a little inverter ( a circuit that
inputs DC and outputs AC). The light strip itself tests electrically to be a
capacitor. The frequency of this AC can be changed for dimming but it is
tricky. Some displays are pulse width modulated--also tricky. The inverter
output voltage can be changed, but might be tricky unless the inverted is
made for it.
The easy way is probably to put a resistor in series with one of the leads
and see what happens. This should lead to a solution. A capacitor in series
would work too but is harder to make variable.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
The EL strips with inverter I have dim just fine with reductions in
voltage. I suspect the problem is that incandescent lights dim rather
nonlinearly and go to essentially invisibility well above zero volts,
while the EL strips are more linear - leaving them with a significant
light output when the incandescents have dimmed to nothing.
I don't have a really good simple solution other than using two dimmers
- one for the incandescents and one for the EL strips.
If I had the problem I would probably design something that reduced the
EL supply voltage faster than the incandescent supply voltage - but
then, I am an electrical design engineer and the circuit would probably
be too complicated :-) .
Dick Tasker
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
> > From: James Redmon (james(at)berkut13.com)
> >Date: Mon May 17 - 12:39 PM
>
>
>
> >the backup 2 1/4" AS and ALT instruments are
> > powered by the "add-on" glow strip rings that are powered by a DC-AC
> >inverter. The inverter is hooked up to the same panel dimmer and it
>does
> >dim...but not nearly enough. They are still way-to-bright for night
>ops,
> >while some radio lights are at about zero illumination.
>
> >The question is, how can I achieve additional dimming on those
>instruments
> >without sacrificing too much full-bright range? I can stand a little
> >degradation, but not too much as the blue/green light makes them
>stand-out
> >from under the long canopy cover.
>
> Electroluminescent lights are driven by a little inverter ( a circuit that
>inputs DC and outputs AC). The light strip itself tests electrically to be a
>capacitor. The frequency of this AC can be changed for dimming but it is
>tricky. Some displays are pulse width modulated--also tricky. The inverter
>output voltage can be changed, but might be tricky unless the inverted is
>made for it.
>
>The easy way is probably to put a resistor in series with one of the leads
>and see what happens. This should lead to a solution. A capacitor in series
>would work too but is harder to make variable.
>
> Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | GTX-327 Wiring Diagram |
3.6 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
Anyone have a wiring diagram for the Garmin GTX-327 transponder? I hate the way
Garmin protects these things like their top secret or something.
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
James and Eric,
I had planned on using electroluminescent (EL) strips for lighting, and bought
parts from All Electronics which included a 12 inch by 1 inch EL strip($6) and
an inverter ($3 or $4) I did try the resistor in series with the inverter, and
it worked to some extent. I used fixed resistors to experiment. You could
do the same, find the biggest resistor that still lets your inverter start and
drive the two EL lights, and then find a 2 or 5 watt rheostat of the same value
as your biggest fixed resistor. Measure current so that you can calculate
needed wattage. Your particular inverter will determine the load and dimming
range of this setup.
To have a one knob solution, you could use a light controlled resistor in series
with the inverter. For example, the CAT# PRE-19 from All Electronics, is a
1" by 0.85" photocell which is 20 ohms with full illumination going to 5000 ohms
in the dark. This would need to dissipate some power, so bonding to a small
heat sink or to the metal mounting for your switch panel might work. You would
enclose this with a light bulb powered by your dimmer, and as the light from
the bulb fell, the photocell would increase its resistance. The amount of
experimenting to get this to track the incandescent bulbs might not be worth
it for a one-off project, though.
Changing frequency from the inverter is an elegant solution, but the color of the
light will change as well as the intensity. Since the eye does not see color
in low light, this is not a problem for instrument lighting. Using an NE555
as the waveform source would be easy, but again it would take more building
and experimentation than a one-off project warrants.
Ultimately, I decided not to use the EL strips, but rather use LEDs. The LEDs
are more reliable in that they do not need an inverter, just a series resistor.
If you already have the EL ring lights, you will need to live with that solution.
Jim Foerster, J400 80% done, waiting for me to wire.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: GTX-327 Wiring Diagram |
Randy,
I contacted Garmin Tech Support, explained that I was building an
experimental, and asked them to send me the install guide for the
GTX-327. They replied with the following document.
Mark S.
>
>Anyone have a wiring diagram for the Garmin GTX-327 transponder? I hate
>the way Garmin protects these things like their top secret or something.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Traveling Man" <travliman58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
The battery running dead is a problem motorcyclists who have alarms on their
rides have to deal with. (Small batteries, longish times of not being
used/recharged. I would suggest looking into a system for a motorcycle. If
it is going to be a long time between recharges, and since any system will
maintain a small current draw, look into a solar powered recharging system.
I personally like the idea of a VERY loud alarm inside the cockpit, but you
should have some failsafe way of turning it off.
Below is a link to one site that offers alarms for motorcycles, good luck.
http://shop.vendio.com/evan2002/category/6069/
Bob Lindley
Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: GTX-327 Wiring Diagram |
Randy,
Referenced doc was stripped in my reply. So, I sent it directly to you.
Mark S.
>
>
>Randy,
>I contacted Garmin Tech Support, explained that I was building an
>experimental, and asked them to send me the install guide for the
>GTX-327. They replied with the following document.
>
>Mark S.
>
>
> >
> >Anyone have a wiring diagram for the Garmin GTX-327 transponder? I hate
> >the way Garmin protects these things like their top secret or something.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Randy
> >F1 Rocket
> >http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
>
>I personally like the idea of a VERY loud alarm inside the cockpit,
How about tying the alarm system to the Wig-Wag landing lights. One thing
a thief doesn't want is attention.
Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alarm System
>
>
> >
> >I personally like the idea of a VERY loud alarm
inside the cockpit,
>
Just thought of something that might be a gotcha.
Crook in court tells the judge that his hearing got
ruined while trying to steal your radios. In a just
world, the judge would award the crook $1 for his
pain and suffering. In this world it might cost us
our plane and our house.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Eric -
You recommend a resistor inserted in one of the leads. Since you did nor
specify which one I assume that it is in either lead from the inverter to
the lamp. If this is not the case, it would go in the power (+) lead from
the dimmer to the inverter. Am I correct, or demonstrating some ignorance
about the effect of resistance in an AC circuit?
Thanks,
John
> The easy way is probably to put a resistor in series with one of the
> leads and see what happens. This should lead to a solution. A capacitor
> in series would work too but is harder to make variable.
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Prather <mprather(at)spro.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:26 am
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Weight savings
Prather"
>
> Does $20K include paying yourself for your labor?
If you buy a
> certified ship, labor is included...
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
> N34RD
>
echristley(at)nc.rr.com
> >
>
> snip
>
> >> valuable.
> >
> > I like the way you look at it, but I don't like the
> > number that it gives me. My best guesstimate is
> > that my project will end up around $20K, and I'm
> > aiming for $15. The useful load is around 1100lb.
> > That comes out to only $18/lb. I just KNOW that I'm
> > willing to pay more than that. A certified ship
> > bought new with the same capacity would sell for
> > somewhere around $350K. That come out to around
> > $320/lb.
> >
Good point, Matt.
Congress' justification of experimental aircraft is
supposed to be education (funny how the feds can
strip our rights and then hand them back when THEY
find a justification, ain't it). I figure I'm doing
as much work and learning just as much as someone
pursuing a doctorate degree. Donating 4 years of
labor to a local university will cost more in
tuition and books than what I'll have in materials.
I won't get presented with a fancy certificate full
of nice swirly letters, or wear a long dress twice a
year without my brothers laughing at me, but I will
have an airplane (which I'd much rather have anyway).
So, by this reckoning, my plane is free!!
If I was already an expert builder who knew
everything he needed to know, and this wasn't my
plane...you know, the typical A&P, and I got paid
workman's wages, say $30k/yr, then I guess labor
would be about $60, all told.
That reckoning puts the total cost at around $75k,
and about $70/lb of useful load.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Z-12 Main Alternator Control |
Bob:
With respect to Z-12 (Single Battery, Dual Alternator) the main alternator appears
to be controlled by the main battery master switch while the aux alternator
has a separate on/off switch.
Is there a reason for not having a separate main alternator switch as well? I
plan on this system for the RV-10 I have under construction.
The aircraft is designed with a battery location aft of the passenger compartment.
With an aluminum airframe is the 4AWG ground cable to the instrument panel
ground bus still the preferred grounding method?
Many thanks.
Dick Sipp
RV10 #65
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
In a message dated 5/18/04 3:49:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
echristley(at)nc.rr.com writes:
That reckoning puts the total cost at around $75k,
and about $70/lb of useful load
Good Evening echristle,
There is reasonable justification for using payload in
lieu of useful load. How would the numbers look if
you did that?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Actually an auto alarm might offer more than you realize. Any insurance
company would rather pay up for a $2000 repair than $10K-15K for
replacement of the avionics plus the hack repair. It could be set up to
power the strobes and landing light for drawing attention along with the
normal audio. (Note, most alarms will shut off after a period of time to
prevent running down the battery - some periodically repeat the warning
alert. Could even be on its own battery system with a relay to activate
the strobe and landing lights with a wigwag flasher.) Could even have the
higher tech microwave proximity alarm to discourage them to move on to
another target before they forcefully enter. Alarm cost $, avionics $$$$
and the insurance company might grant a premium reduction for the
alarm. At many isolated fields, there is often someone around its just
nothing attracts their attention for you to know it.
jerb
>
>
> >
> >Hey Chuck,
> >What avionics did you install, and what is your exact address?
> >JHSF,
> >Jim
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Is there an alarm system available for exp. aircraft that has been used.
> >I
> > > have a keyed door but, having just installed avionics that has the
> > > equivalent value of the GNP of a developing nation, I'd like to give
> > > potential thieves a better run for their money than some winky door lock.
> > > An audible alarm and potentially activation of strobe and canard flashers
> > > would seem to be a minimu. I assume some "good" solutions have been
> >worked
> > > out but didn't find it in the archives. Ideas?
>
>
> How is your airplane to be stored? We had a tie-down tenant
> on our airport relate his own experience with stolen radios:
>
> Seems his C-182 was parked on a relatively unsecured field
> (like ours at 1K1) and someone decided to take advantage of
> the situation and removed all the radios from his airplane.
> To get at the radios, he put a crowbar into the gap between
> trailing edge of door and doorpost to pry it open. In addition
> to getting the radios, damage to the aircraft was about $2,000.
>
> Some years later, his airplane was entered while parked on
> an away field. A flight bag with hand-helds and other pilot's
> tools were stolen. The insurance company initially balked at
> the claim, "You didn't lock the airplane." The guy sent
> a copy of the repair bill for the door on the earlier
> event and suggested that locking the door would not have
> prevented anyone from getting into the airplane . . . and
> would only increase the size of the claim. They paid the
> claim with no further protest.
>
> Bottom line is, what do you REALLY expect any barrier between
> thief and valuables to accomplish? Locks only keep honest people
> honest . . . if someone wants the stuff in your airplane,
> fragile barriers are only an inconvenience.
>
> You might be better off locking a hangar door (the most
> robust barrier) and leaving the airplane unlocked. Once
> the thief is inside the hangar, the question is not whether
> or not he walks away with your stuff, it's a question of
> total cost to put things right. New canopy? Lots of chop-n-hack
> on your sheet metal with doublers inside at the joints where
> buggered sheet metal was cut out?
>
> Many folks who parked airplanes on 1K1 didn't lock doors . . .
> for exactly the reason cited above. Given the number of
> car alarms that annoy the populace-at-large, I'm not
> sure I'd put much faith in the value of making some ADDITIONAL
> noise when a thief hammers a hole in your windshield.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
WRT alarms, I think it would be great to rig a nerve gas system that would
assure the thief would still be by the plane when the police arrive.
Regards,
Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of RG142 |
> >A couple weeks ago there was a lister who thought my Super-2-CCA copper clad
> >aluminum FatWire (available in two weeks) was too expensive for the weight
> >saved. I honestly don't know how best to calculate such a thing. I once flew
> >from Van Nuys, Ca to Winslow, Az in a Cessna150 and landed with a pound of
> >usable fuel remaining. I would have paid plenty for that pound of fuel
> >instead of a extra pound of wire.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Eric M. Jones
>
>
> Excellent points. I can reinforce those ideas with the following
> anecdotes from my own experience. In 1964 when I was a tech writer
> for Cessna, a number commonly circulated around the
> engineering department suggested "For every pound of emptly weight
> added to our airplanes, it will cost the owner(s) of that airplane
> $100 to buy the pound of stuff, maintain it, and purchase fuel
> to carry it around over the lifetime of the airplane.
Hmmmm . . . I wondered where this post went. When it didn't show
up on the list for several hours after I sent it, I repeated the
post. Now the errant message pops up several days later . . . ain't
electronics wundurful?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
I agree, but unfortunately with the current legal system you would be
the one going to jail - even if the thief was only temporarily
"inconvenienced".
Dick Tasker
Troy Scott wrote:
>
>WRT alarms, I think it would be great to rig a nerve gas system that would
>assure the thief would still be by the plane when the police arrive.
>
>Regards,
>Troy
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BTomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
Someone makes a smoke system for use with alarm systems which produces very
dense theatrical smoke on demand to cloak the area. This has a number of
effects. It frightens the intruder who doesn't understand what's happening
(it will completely fill a 20 X 20 room in seconds (I don't remember for
sure but much less than 1 minute). Can you spell Claustrophobia...? It
blocks almost all light preventing theft because what you can't see you
can't steal. The intruder will have a difficult time finding the door if
he allows the smoke to envelop him. It's quite disorienting. It is tough
to disable because it works fast and by nature renders the intruder blind.
You get the picture. Again it needs to be positively disabled before
flight. It "should" be safe for radios and instruments because it's
intended for use in computer rooms.
Bevan
RV7A fuse
On Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:20 PM, Troy Scott
[SMTP:tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net] wrote:
>
> WRT alarms, I think it would be great to rig a nerve gas system that
would
> assure the thief would still be by the plane when the police arrive.
>
> Regards,
> Troy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
Richard Tasker wrote:
> The EL strips with inverter I have dim just fine with reductions in
> voltage. I suspect the problem is that incandescent lights dim rather
> nonlinearly and go to essentially invisibility well above zero volts,
> while the EL strips are more linear - leaving them with a significant
> light output when the incandescents have dimmed to nothing.
>
> I don't have a really good simple solution other than using two dimmers
> - one for the incandescents and one for the EL strips.
This sounds like a job for a cheap micrprocessor like a PIC with a couple of D:A
converters. You can program the D:A converters to drive a power op-amp that
drives the various lights. You can then tailor the transfer curve any way you
want.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
>> The EL strips with inverter I have dim just fine with reductions in
>> voltage. I suspect the problem is that incandescent lights dim rather
>> nonlinearly and go to essentially invisibility well above zero volts,
>> while the EL strips are more linear - leaving them with a significant
>> light output when the incandescents have dimmed to nothing.
>>
>> I don't have a really good simple solution other than using two dimmers
>> - one for the incandescents and one for the EL strips.
>This sounds like a job for a cheap micrprocessor like a PIC with a couple
of D:A
>converters. You can program the D:A converters to drive a power op-amp
that
>drives the various lights. You can then tailor the transfer curve any way
you
>want.......Brian Lloyd
Brian: That's why you can afford to live in St. Thomas.
>> The easy way is probably to put a resistor in series with one of the
>> leads and see what happens. This should lead to a solution. A capacitor
>> in series would work too but is harder to make variable.
>>Eric -
>You recommend a resistor inserted in one of the leads. Since you did nor
>specify which one I assume that it is in either lead from the inverter to
>the lamp. If this is not the case, it would go in the power (+) lead from
>the dimmer to the inverter. Am I correct, or demonstrating some ignorance
>about the effect of resistance in an AC circuit?.......John
Sorry I was not more clear. Yes the resistor (or capacitor) must go
in series with one of the inverter output leads to the EL strip. If you
tried to dim the inverter itself by reducing the voltage to the inverter
module, The inverter could burn up or just not work until the voltage got to
the Vmin needed to start the little oscillator.
In the very near future EL systems will disappear to be replaced by Organic
LEDs (sheet and strip) --much brighter, more efficient, longer lasting,
better colors--even white, simple to dim, cheaper and no inverter. One big
advantage is that EL is AC by nature. OLEDs are DC by nature. Thus OLEDs
and LEDs have no stroboscopic problems from vibration or motion.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:34 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Weight savings
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>
>
> Good Evening echristle,
>
> There is reasonable justification for using
payload in
> lieu of useful load. How would the numbers look if
> you did that?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
Hmmm? I don't know? How do you seperate payload
from useful load. I'm assuming that you're talking
about this game manufacturers play to try and make
their empty weight look as small as possible. I see
those games as nothing but marketing hype.
Firtst off, I don't understand the argument that oil
and (in my case) coolant shouldn't be part of the
plane's empty weight, because supposedly it can be
left on the ground. There may be engines that run
without oil, but if I'm to the point of draining oil
to get someplace, it's time to pull out the car
keys. My plane will have an oily dipstick or stay
on the ground. For me oil and engine coolant are
part of the empty weight.
Fuel can't be considered part of the empty weight,
except for that part that you just don't feel
comfortable taking off without. I believe it was
Deakins over on Avweb that argued that GA pilots
waste money hauling around fuel that they don't
need. That we should do better calculations, and
only carry what is necessary for the flight. My
response to that is that I have a day job that keeps
me on the ground more than I like, so I don't get to
practice my fuel calculations 8hrs/day. If I ever
get a job as an air carrier, I'll spend more time
trying to be efficient, but until then I'll pay
attention to the NTSB reports. It's my
understanding that the leading cause of GA accidents
is running out of gas. I see no reason to ever
takeoff without at least a half tank (I only have
one 42gal tank). So I'd put half of the tank in the
empty weight category.
The difference between the empty weight (with its
coolant, oil and fuel) and the gross weight (how
much weight I can put on the tires in the hanger),
is my useful load. Call it payload or whatever,
it's the weight budget I have to work with to get
stuff from point A to point B.
When paying for weight reduction, I'm simply paying
to increase that budget and that's the concept I
used in my calculations.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Alarm System |
>Someone makes a smoke system for use with alarm systems which produces very
>dense theatrical smoke on demand to cloak the area.
>Bevan
Hey I love that, Bevan...how about some theatrical flames to go with the
smoke?
There is a US patent for a device to disable hijackers or unruly passengers.
It uses knock-out syringes in the seat cushions. There are certainly others.
While my C172 was in Mexico, the plane was broken into and camping supplies
were stolen. No damage to the aircraft. The police said, "American thieves
take vacations here too." And I believe him. A couple days later we landed
in Huatabampo, Sonora, Mexico. An old lady with a shotgun and her four very
efficient large black dogs guarded the field all night... No venga por
favor aqu en
la noche! That works!
When you add up the cost of increased insurance premiums and the cost to
society if the plane gets stolen by terrorists or drug runners, employing
guards and dogs seems a simple and cost-effective approach.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
In a message dated 5/19/04 8:43:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
echristley(at)nc.rr.com writes:
Hmmm? I don't know? How do you seperate payload
from useful load. I'm assuming that you're talking
about this game manufacturers play to try and make
their empty weight look as small as possible. I see
those games as nothing but marketing hype.
Good Morning echristley,
Payload is that weight that is being carried for a purpose which makes money,
thus PAY load.
Obviously, the definition of payload and useful load is dependent on the
mission and is very subjective.
If you are doing sling loads with a helicopter, you will likely work with a
fuel load that allows only minutes of flight. It is not unusual to add a a
couple of gallons of fuel between each trip dropping an air conditioning unit on
top of a building. The payload is the air conditioner. The pilot and the fuel
is part of the useful load, but not part of the payload.
That is why the calculations are so difficult, you first must come to an
agreement as to just what IS payload.
I agree totally with John Deakin. My airplane carries one hundred and ten
gallons in four tanks. I very rarely take off with full fuel. I adjust my
loads to adapt to the payload that needs to be carried and the requirement for
fuel stops enroute. Bigger payloads require more fuel stops. When I am by
myself, I am the payload. The fuel is useful in that I can fly that payload for
ten hours if I so desire.
As Always, It All Depends!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Scott" <tscott1217(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Of course the "Nerve Gas Idea" was a joke. BUT, the smoke system also
suggested sounds like a winner......., unless the thief stubs his toe on the
way out. Then your life savings go down the drain.........
Maybe if it became well known that all (well insured) stolen avionics will
self-destruct, Mission Impossible style..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight savings |
>
> I agree totally with John Deakin. My airplane
carries one hundred
> and ten
> gallons in four tanks. I very rarely take off
with full fuel. I
> adjust my
> loads to adapt to the payload that needs to be
carried and the
> requirement for
> fuel stops enroute. Bigger payloads require more
fuel stops. When
> I am by
> myself, I am the payload. The fuel is useful in
that I can fly
> that payload for
> ten hours if I so desire.
>
> As Always, It All Depends!
>
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
You, sir, are perfectly and absolutely correct;
however, just to narrow the scope of the
conversation (because, it will be pointless
otherwise), I think we can limit our considerations
to OBAM aircraft. Otherwise, we don't have much
choice in the selection of components. We'll let
Cessna and Bell worry about their respective
projects 8*)
If we limit the conversation to OBAM aircraft in the
US, then PAYload will never be a consideration,
because the airplane will never be loaded for pay
(at least not legally 8*)
That little side-step brings us back to the original
consideration. How much are you willing to pay so
that your wife can take one more hairbrush or bring
back one more pair of shoes from vacation?
The link to that ancient Narco Omnigator for sale on
Ebay looks good all of a sudden doesn't it? 8*)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>>>I don't have a really good simple solution other than using two dimmers
>>>- one for the incandescents and one for the EL strips.
>
>
>>This sounds like a job for a cheap microprocessor like a PIC with a couple of
D:A
>>converters. You can program the D:A converters to drive a power op-amp that
>>drives the various lights. You can then tailor the transfer curve any way you
>>want.......Brian Lloyd
>
>
> Brian: That's why you can afford to live in St. Thomas.
Well, actually I can't afford to live in St. Thomas anymore which is why I am spending
a lot of my time doing network consulting in Africa. ;-) Sometimes you
guys are my sanity anchor.
But getting back to light dimming, I have run into this problem in almost every
aircraft panel I have ever worked on. The proliferation of incandescent, LED,
gas-discharge, and EL lighting systems is enough to drive you batty. Perhaps
the one that drove me the most nuts was the LED dimming circuit in the old EI
engine monitor. It had this really weird curve where decreasing the voltage
increased the brightness of the LEDs (and very nonlinearly) as I recall.
The reason I mentioned the PIC is that it has several very attractive features:
1. it is cheap;
2. you can program it very easily, especially the ones that speak BASIC;
3. they have built-in I/O devices so they don't need one to glue a bunch of chips
together;
4. it is really cheap.
It wouldn't be difficult or expensive; it would just take some time to lay out.
Having the ability to define arbitrary voltage/current output from several coordinated
sources would be a real boon.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Making FM Antenna |
Can anybody send me to a site that might have material on making a D.I.Y.
flexible wire antenna for a auto type FM radio?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight Savings OFF TOPIC |
When I took the written part of my pilot's license test, one question was--
"You are in Santa Monica. They are giving away free gold ingots in Mojave.
How much gold can you bring back to Santa Monica in a C150? Describe how you
would plan this flight legally (fuel, weight and balance, etc.)."
My description of this flight included the partial disassembly of the
aircraft, the discarding of all non-essential items, including landing
lights, radios, co-pilot's seat, floorboards, doors (!), carpeting,
headliner, wheel fairings, royalite, etc. Then upon loading up 512 pounds of
gold, draining oil to minimums, followed a tightly planned schedule of
precise partial refuelings (Agua Dulce--1.2 gallon), mathematically
determined to allow for reserve-fuel-only landings at every podunk strip,
private strips (with permission), dry lake beds and airports on the return
route--ten or more landings on the 100 mile or so return flight. Rich, rich,
rich! Absolutely astonishing.
The examiner didn't think so....She frowned at me, shook her head, and after
a long sigh finally said, "Let's rephrase that question ....."
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Well, that covered the territory from practical to cynical and most area
in-between. The nerve gas idea is real appealing and would be effective for
stopping the thief in his tracks. Of course, if I forgot to disarm the
system....
I'm installing stuff that is costing the same as the GNP of a third world
developing country (CNX80, MX20, SL30, SL70R, dual EFIS, and so on), so I'm
highly motivated to retain ownership. Without a doubt, no security system
is fool proof or will stop a determined thief. In this case, I just want to
"discourage" him (or her---we have to be PC here) as much as possible.
The airport security is quite good but not perfect. Unfortunately, I have to
park outside and fly to other ports and stay overnight from time to time. I
think I'll look into the picture taking idea. With a little luck, the
fellow could have his picture taken twice, with the second hung in the Post
Office. I'm not too worried about a smart thief (an oxymoron) outfoxing the
system, though he may be more adept the second time when he's out on parole.
If I were able to receive an alert on my cell, I could call the airport
security immediately to ask them to take a look, assuming Krispy Kreme has
radio reception. If that high tech stuff doesn't pan out, I can always
revert to car/cycle alarms and see how long it takes the system to screw up.
The noise in the cabin idea seems just a little too easy to defeat. As
pointed out, his own headset, my headset or 25 cent ear plugs and he's home
free. The external audible alarm hooked to my wig-wags seems more
intimidating. I wish these radio companies would come up with a
transmittable position, such as the WSI, which talks to a satellite anyhow.
It would seem if an avionics was registered and reported missing, there
should be a way of tracking it when it talks to somebody next time.
Something along the line of the stolen car reporting system---Black Jack or
whatever it is. Of course, this assumes the avionics companies are even
interested in deterring theft; can you say "repeat customers."
Finally, as to the inquiry about my home base, after having listed my
radios, I think I'll just keep that to myself.
Chuck
N27GV Exp. Velocity at TYS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard E. Tasker
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
I agree, but unfortunately with the current legal system you would be
the one going to jail - even if the thief was only temporarily
"inconvenienced".
Dick Tasker
Troy Scott wrote:
>
>WRT alarms, I think it would be great to rig a nerve gas system that would
>assure the thief would still be by the plane when the police arrive.
>
>Regards,
>Troy
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
In a message dated 5/19/2004 1:06:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N27160 writes:
> Can anybody send me to a site that might have material on
> making a D.I.Y.
> flexible wire antenna for a auto type FM radio?
Solder about 28-30 inches of flexible conductor of your choice to the center conductor
of the coax feedline, erect in the clear, and you're good to go. Really,
receiving antenna design is about that simple. No real need to agonize over
impedance matching, ground planes, or even polarization for FM listening except
at the very fringes. Most FM stations pump out way more than enough wattage
for easy reception while airborne. A bigger problem might be hearing too
many stations at once, but the capture effect of an FM discriminator makes that
less annoying than the heterodyne beat of two or more AM stations sharing the
same frequency.
A more exact formula for a resonant quarter-wave whip antenna (typ. 36-52 ohms
when operated against a ground plane, depending on its slope) is : length (inches)=2800/frequency
(MHz). Capacitive "end-effects" will throw this formula off,
but again, for reception, it makes NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE.
Don't sweat the small stuff ;-)
-Bill B / "Stormy"
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight Savings OFF TOPIC |
Actually, I am doing this for my CJ6A project. I view extra weight as something
to be avoided without getting crazy. Extra weight translates into several things
I wish to avoid:
1. reduced rate-of-climb;
2. reduced operational ceiling;
3. increased stall speed;
4. reduced fuel capacity;
5. additional load on structures during aerobatics;
6. increased induced drag.
I have to pay for weight with horsepower which then increases fuel burn and required
fuel. If I can reduce weight I can get to a higher and more efficient altitude
where fuel burn for a given TAS will be lower.
So in my case I have dispensed with all the heavy Chinese electrical crap. Just
for grins I weighed some of the stuff I removed. Just for example:
1. existing wiring harness (100% shielded in copper braid), 110 lbs;
2. ADF loop antenna, 25 lb;
3. ADF electronics module, 40 lb;
4. ADF control heads, 20 lb;
5. ADF power supply (dynamotor), 30 lb;
6. 60A/28V generator, 25 lb;
7. generator noise filter, 10 lb;
8. generator voltage regulator, 15 lb.
Some of this stuff will be replaced by modern equipment, e.g. the generator will
be replaced by a B&C alternator for primary power and I will add a B&C alternator
or dynamo to the vacuum pump pad for backup power. (I am probably going
to do the dual-alternator, single battery topology.) (And yes Bob, I need to
keep 24V for the existing lights and the electrically-operated starting air valve.)
I also got rid of the Chinese iron gyros with their rotary inverters, the remote
compass (with vacuum tube servo amp), and a lot of other heavy instruments.
I will save 400+ pounds by moving to modern stuff, i.e. a Blue Mountain EFIS-1
(both cockpits). That is a bunch of horsepower saved and a serious increase
in service ceiling not to mention a serious improvement in reliability.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> I wish these radio companies would come up with a
> transmittable position, such as the WSI, which talks to a satellite anyhow.
> It would seem if an avionics was registered and reported missing, there
> should be a way of tracking it when it talks to somebody next time.
> Something along the line of the stolen car reporting system---Black Jack or
> whatever it is. Of course, this assumes the avionics companies are even
> interested in deterring theft; can you say "repeat customers."
I actually built such a module once. It was for my ham gear and transmitted my
callsign in morse code at a low level in the background of my voice every time
I keyed the mic. This was pre-microprocessors so it took four or five chips
to do. Nowadays it would be even easier. Again, that little one-chip PIC looks
interesting.
> Finally, as to the inquiry about my home base, after having listed my
> radios, I think I'll just keep that to myself.
So how are things in Knoxville? ;-)
> Chuck
> N27GV Exp. Velocity at TYS
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
> intimidating. I wish these radio companies would
come up with a
> transmittable position, such as the WSI, which
talks to a satellite
> anyhow.It would seem if an avionics was registered
and reported
> missing, there
> should be a way of tracking it when it talks to
somebody next time.
Do you really want to give Big Brother another way
of tracking you? Looking forward to getting
'tickets' for flying in TFR zones while I'm at work
and my plane has its engine removed for
maintanence. And referring to the 'One Star' thing
that they're selling, there's no way I'm going to
let someone else remotely unlock my car just so that
they'll be able to call the fire department for me.
(Please forgive me if you haven't heard this
ridiculous string of commercials.)
There are technological impediments to improvement,
then there are the sociological ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
All the manufacturers maintain a database of stolen serial numbers. So
if your missing radio ever goes in for factory repair, you'll (or the
insurance company) will get it back.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> I wish these radio companies would come up with a
> transmittable position, such as the WSI, which talks to a satellite
anyhow.
> It would seem if an avionics was registered and reported missing,
there
> should be a way of tracking it when it talks to somebody next time.
> Something along the line of the stolen car reporting system---Black
Jack or
> whatever it is. Of course, this assumes the avionics companies are
even
> interested in deterring theft; can you say "repeat customers."
I actually built such a module once. It was for my ham gear and
transmitted my callsign in morse code at a low level in the background
of my voice every time I keyed the mic. This was pre-microprocessors so
it took four or five chips to do. Nowadays it would be even easier.
Again, that little one-chip PIC looks interesting.
> Finally, as to the inquiry about my home base, after having listed my
> radios, I think I'll just keep that to myself.
So how are things in Knoxville? ;-)
> Chuck
> N27GV Exp. Velocity at TYS
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
OK, I just fixed the problem. Thanks for the input, all.
Here is a link to the data sheet on the inverter I have:
http://www.umainstruments.com/PMAdocs/10-700Inverter.doc
I simply added a 1/4-watt 470-ohm resistor to the DC supply side coming from
the dimmer unit. I tried various resistors from 1k (no light at all) to
150-ohm (no noticeable affect). The 470 put the two EL rings in the same
range as the incandescent lamps. Bingo, problem solved. Of course, this
simple solution also reduced the "full bright" level...but not so much so
that they are dimmer than the other instruments at the same power level.
Very even brightness levels now, and dimmable to almost zero.
...now, if I can just get the EFIS-Lite dimmed output under control...but
that's another story.
Thanks again,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument light dimming
>
> James and Eric,
>
> I had planned on using electroluminescent (EL) strips for lighting, and
bought parts from All Electronics which included a 12 inch by 1 inch EL
strip($6) and an inverter ($3 or $4) I did try the resistor in series with
the inverter, and it worked to some extent. I used fixed resistors to
experiment. You could do the same, find the biggest resistor that still
lets your inverter start and drive the two EL lights, and then find a 2 or 5
watt rheostat of the same value as your biggest fixed resistor. Measure
current so that you can calculate needed wattage. Your particular inverter
will determine the load and dimming range of this setup.
>
> To have a one knob solution, you could use a light controlled resistor in
series with the inverter. For example, the CAT# PRE-19 from All
Electronics, is a 1" by 0.85" photocell which is 20 ohms with full
illumination going to 5000 ohms in the dark. This would need to dissipate
some power, so bonding to a small heat sink or to the metal mounting for
your switch panel might work. You would enclose this with a light bulb
powered by your dimmer, and as the light from the bulb fell, the photocell
would increase its resistance. The amount of experimenting to get this to
track the incandescent bulbs might not be worth it for a one-off project,
though.
>
> Changing frequency from the inverter is an elegant solution, but the color
of the light will change as well as the intensity. Since the eye does not
see color in low light, this is not a problem for instrument lighting.
Using an NE555 as the waveform source would be easy, but again it would take
more building and experimentation than a one-off project warrants.
>
> Ultimately, I decided not to use the EL strips, but rather use LEDs. The
LEDs are more reliable in that they do not need an inverter, just a series
resistor. If you already have the EL ring lights, you will need to live
with that solution.
>
> Jim Foerster, J400 80% done, waiting for me to wire.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument light dimming |
..uh...make that 1/2-watt. Bad fingers...bad!
> I simply added a 1/4-watt 470-ohm resistor...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Actually the NorthStar system is actually pretty neat and handy. You raise
the question, do you have a reason to fear the possibility of being tracked?
jerb
>
>
> > intimidating. I wish these radio companies would
>come up with a
> > transmittable position, such as the WSI, which
>talks to a satellite
> > anyhow.It would seem if an avionics was registered
>and reported
> > missing, there
> > should be a way of tracking it when it talks to
>somebody next time.
>
>Do you really want to give Big Brother another way
>of tracking you? Looking forward to getting
>'tickets' for flying in TFR zones while I'm at work
>and my plane has its engine removed for
>maintanence. And referring to the 'One Star' thing
>that they're selling, there's no way I'm going to
>let someone else remotely unlock my car just so that
>they'll be able to call the fire department for me.
>(Please forgive me if you haven't heard this
>ridiculous string of commercials.)
>
>There are technological impediments to improvement,
>then there are the sociological ones.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | B-8 stickgrip switches |
I just bought a B-8 stick grip and I'm trying to figure out how to make it do what
I want.
The switches are all normally open, momentary on. For an example, I want to turn
on my boost pump with one of the buttons and then turn it off later. Should
I try to find a replacement switch of the type "push on push off" or is there
a relay of sorts out there that will latch the connection closed?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
----- Original Message -----
From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
>
> Actually the NorthStar system is actually pretty
neat and handy.
> You raise
> the question, do you have a reason to fear the
possibility of being
> tracked?jerb
>
>
>
HEH! I MADE them teach me to land when I got my
flying lessons!!
8*)
Seriously, though. I got audited one year when I
was driving a tractor trailer, 'cause I didn't have
a receipt for a $200 federal tax I paid (Yeah, you
heard right. I got in trouble with the IRS for not
having a receipt for money I gave to the IRS.) The
interesting thing is, no state in the union will
sell you tractor truck tags without proof of paying
the tax. It drug out for over a year before they
finally succumbed to logic, and I still ended up
paying $10 in interest on money I didn't owe.
Yeah. I have reasons to fear being tracked.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Heinen" <mjheinen(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Alarm:I am using robodog...a menacing rotweiler recording that is motion
activated as well as a flashing LED.Also the hanger has motion activated
video that records on vcr and sends pictures via the internet...so if they
take everything I still have the photos...agian to keep the honest ones
honest.....so far has scared a few of my friends...
Robo Dog avalable at x10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | B-8 stickgrip switches |
>>For an example, I want to turn on my boost pump with one of the buttons
and then turn it off later. <<
Just my thoughts.....
You can, of course, make that switch do whatever you want with outboard
electronic or electromechanical switching.
However: The boost pump is a fairly important unit in many installations.
I'd personally go with a plain Jane switch or CB switch on the panel.
Use the B-8 switches for something less critical, like your machine guns.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Brian Lloyd wrote...
So how are things in Knoxville? ;-)
> Chuck
> N27GV Exp. Velocity at TYS
Man, you really blew my cover. Fortunately, there's a guard tower
overlooking my plane and the near-by machine gun nests, so anyone thinking
of stocking up on new avionics had better.........bring a cart. I'd hate to
see any of my nice radios dropped on the tarmac as you furtively scurry
about the ramp. For any low-life that would steal my radios, know that
there is a Greater Justice, and they will rot-in-hell---though while there,
they will not get lost, they can download weather (forecast; HOT) and will
always be in direct communications with Center.
Thanks for all the ideas.
Chuck
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joa Harrison <flyasuperseven(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | palms and PocketFMS |
Has anyone tried PocketFMS (www.pocketfms.com) ?
It looks like a *great* idea. Provide a very low cost moving map software package
and then have a community of users that continually update it with local waypoints
and airport info. Just what the owner-built community needs.
If enough people contributed maybe we could get the developers to create artificial
horizon (GPS based only) shareware too.
Also, I've heard that the Tungsten T3 palm is the best out there for daylight viewing
and screen size. Can anyone that owns one of these concur?
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: palms and PocketFMS |
Hello Joa,
Thursday, May 20, 2004, 7:15:32 AM, you wrote:
JH> Also, I've heard that the Tungsten T3 palm is the best out
JH> there for daylight viewing and screen size. Can anyone that owns
JH> one of these concur?
Why would you want a Palm at all for this software? According to
their web site:
"There is no support for Palm or MIPS, nor will there be."
I sure like my Palm Tungsten C - but it won't work with this software.
--
Best regards,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | fast on terminal strips |
Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast on tabs.
Can't find it at B&C, Mouser or Digikey.
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Aeroelectric List
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
The neatest and easiest FM antenna I have seen was on Razzmatazz, an
award winning RV-6A out of Tampa, FL. The builder used a rubber ducky
antenna mounted low on the forward right side of the firewall and
extending horizontally into the engine compartment. As I remember, he
had a panel mounted AM/FM/CD radio. The pilot reported he got great AM
and FM reception.
Charlie
San Antonio
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Making FM Antenna
In a message dated 5/19/2004 1:06:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N27160
writes:
> Can anybody send me to a site that might have material on
> making a D.I.Y.
> flexible wire antenna for a auto type FM radio?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fast on terminal strips |
Not sure what you are asking for? Do you mean like the standard
terminal/barrier blocks that traditionally use screws? If so, you can
get adapters for those that just screw down and which have Faston tabs.
Both Mouser and Digikey have the adapters with the terminal strips.
For example look at pg 185 of the latest Digikey catalog (or look up
A0138-ND on their web site).
Additionally, McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) also has them.
As far as I know no one makes a terminal block that only consists of
faston connections (but I could be wrong).
If this is not want you are referring to, please be more specific in
your description.
Dick Tasker
Jim Stone wrote:
>
>Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast on tabs.
Can't find it at B&C, Mouser or Digikey.
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fast on terminal strips |
In a message dated 5/20/2004 12:17:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jrstone(at)insightbb.com writes:
> Jim Stone"
>
> Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast on
> tabs.
Jim,
B & C does have the tabs, in 12 pair strips (they solder them to flat brass
to make their ground terminal strips). Though not listed in their catalog, I
bought some of these a while back at $5 per. You need to request them
directly. They can also be shortened to any number of tabs you want.
They are not insulated, so you will have to do that. I used a piece of 1/4"
thick high density polypropylene plastic. Drilled holes where the tabs were
going to go (tab strips had 1/8" holes in them already) then used a piloted
drill bit to countersink the hole in the plastic about 1/16" on the side opposite
where the tabs would reside (a pop rivet from the plastic side into the strip
holds it in place).
But before securing the tabs, you need to locate and drill your holes for
securing the platic to you metal or fiberglass mounting plate. If you pop rivet
through the metal sheet into the plastic strip, you may need to use a washer
to keep from pulling the pop rivet through the plastic.
Doug Windhorn
Doug Windhorn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <rv6a(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
What is a rubber ducky antenna?
On May 20, 2004, at 1:10 PM, Charlie wrote:
>
>
> The neatest and easiest FM antenna I have seen was on Razzmatazz, an
> award winning RV-6A out of Tampa, FL. The builder used a rubber ducky
> antenna mounted low on the forward right side of the firewall and
> extending horizontally into the engine compartment. As I remember, he
> had a panel mounted AM/FM/CD radio. The pilot reported he got great AM
> and FM reception.
>
> Charlie
> San Antonio
>
>
> From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Making FM Antenna
>
>
> In a message dated 5/19/2004 1:06:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N27160
> writes:
>
>> Can anybody send me to a site that might have material on
>> making a D.I.Y.
>> flexible wire antenna for a auto type FM radio?
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | fast on terminal strips |
Depends on your use. The B&C ones are great for ground ... but I needed
strips for the power side at the wing roots. I used strips from Electronic
Supply in Kansas City http://eskc.com . These are really cool in that they
are a build it yourself tab. You pick the number of connections you need
and then you can stack the tabs on top of each other under a central screw
to make the connection. One tab on one side for the input and three on the
other for an output etc.
Regards,
David
RV6-A
Finish Kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fast on terminal strips
In a message dated 5/20/2004 12:17:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jrstone(at)insightbb.com writes:
> Jim Stone"
>
> Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast
on
> tabs.
Jim,
B & C does have the tabs, in 12 pair strips (they solder them to flat brass
to make their ground terminal strips). Though not listed in their catalog,
I
bought some of these a while back at $5 per. You need to request them
directly. They can also be shortened to any number of tabs you want.
They are not insulated, so you will have to do that. I used a piece of 1/4"
thick high density polypropylene plastic. Drilled holes where the tabs were
going to go (tab strips had 1/8" holes in them already) then used a piloted
drill bit to countersink the hole in the plastic about 1/16" on the side
opposite
where the tabs would reside (a pop rivet from the plastic side into the
strip
holds it in place).
But before securing the tabs, you need to locate and drill your holes for
securing the platic to you metal or fiberglass mounting plate. If you pop
rivet
through the metal sheet into the plastic strip, you may need to use a washer
to keep from pulling the pop rivet through the plastic.
Doug Windhorn
Doug Windhorn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
Chris Krieg wrote:
>
> What is a rubber ducky antenna?
>
You remember the song:
We got a great big convoy
Rolling through the night
Come on and join our convoy
Ain't she a beautiful sight.
Rubber ducky antenna was used by one of those guys.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fast on terminal strips |
Thanks for your input guys. I don't want to spend time building the strips
so I'm thinking the B&C one is out. I do have the ground block for the
firewall but need the strips for mostly positive connections. I didn't know
that you have to order the standard strip (with screws) and then order the
tab as an accessory. So, that tidbit helps a lot.
Thanks again.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fast on terminal strips
>
> Depends on your use. The B&C ones are great for ground ... but I needed
> strips for the power side at the wing roots. I used strips from
Electronic
> Supply in Kansas City http://eskc.com . These are really cool in that
they
> are a build it yourself tab. You pick the number of connections you need
> and then you can stack the tabs on top of each other under a central screw
> to make the connection. One tab on one side for the input and three on
the
> other for an output etc.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> RV6-A
> Finish Kit.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fast on terminal strips
>
>
> In a message dated 5/20/2004 12:17:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> jrstone(at)insightbb.com writes:
>
> > Jim Stone"
> >
> > Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast
> on
> > tabs.
>
> Jim,
>
> B & C does have the tabs, in 12 pair strips (they solder them to flat
brass
> to make their ground terminal strips). Though not listed in their
catalog,
> I
> bought some of these a while back at $5 per. You need to request them
> directly. They can also be shortened to any number of tabs you want.
>
> They are not insulated, so you will have to do that. I used a piece of
1/4"
>
> thick high density polypropylene plastic. Drilled holes where the tabs
were
>
> going to go (tab strips had 1/8" holes in them already) then used a
piloted
> drill bit to countersink the hole in the plastic about 1/16" on the side
> opposite
> where the tabs would reside (a pop rivet from the plastic side into the
> strip
> holds it in place).
>
> But before securing the tabs, you need to locate and drill your holes for
> securing the platic to you metal or fiberglass mounting plate. If you pop
> rivet
> through the metal sheet into the plastic strip, you may need to use a
washer
>
> to keep from pulling the pop rivet through the plastic.
>
> Doug Windhorn
>
>
> Doug Windhorn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MMcs139808(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
A short rubber coated antenna as used on industrial wakie talkies eg:Motorola.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <rv6a(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
Thanks.
Chris
On May 20, 2004, at 8:17 PM, MMcs139808(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> A short rubber coated antenna as used on industrial wakie talkies
> eg:Motorola.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Chuck, I've put an alarm system in my Glasair. I bought a standard auto
system. I hooked up two sensors: a shock sensor, which chirps if the
airplane is bumped and sets off the siren if it is hit, and a door open
sensor. My door open sensor is a circuit connected through the latches on
the two doors; if either door is unlatched, it goes off, and turns on the
siren. I also use it as a cockpit annunciator... with my airplane, an open
door during flight is a disaster. The system comes with a relay that could
also drive the landing lights, but I didn't bother with that.
I turn it on when I leave the airplane in the hangar for just the reason you
mention... I don't want to lose my avionics. Let the crooks go next door
where there is no alarm.
Just go to your local auto aftermarket store and pick up a reasonably priced
alarm system.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
>
> Is there an alarm system available for exp. aircraft that has been used.
I
> have a keyed door but, having just installed avionics that has the
> equivalent value of the GNP of a developing nation, I'd like to give
> potential thieves a better run for their money than some winky door lock.
> An audible alarm and potentially activation of strobe and canard flashers
> would seem to be a minimu. I assume some "good" solutions have been
worked
> out but didn't find it in the archives. Ideas?
>
> Chuck, in East Tennessee
> Velocity XLRG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Installation Manuals |
Thanks to all who replied about copies of the CNX-80 Installation manual.
I'm also looking for electronic copies of the SL-30, SL-70 and SL15SM
installation manuals. I'm trying to put together a CD documentation package
for my aircraft.
These documents were originally on the UPSAT site. Garmin no longer
supports that site, nor do they offer the installation manuals on their
site. (They do offer installation manuals on obsolete gear!)
You can send them directly to either of my email addresses below....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
wrk: fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
Hm: fred.stucklen(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Shrink tube size for Kroy 2500 |
Folks
I got a Kroy K2500 with a 1 inch tape but no shrink tube. Buying 2 sizes
seems a waste. What size do you recommend 1/8, 3/16, 1/4?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installation Manuals |
> I'm also looking for electronic copies of the SL-30, SL-70 and SL15SM
> installation manuals. I'm trying to put together a CD documentation
package
> for my aircraft.
http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp?market=1&subcategory=57&product=013-00105-01
http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp?market=1&subcategory=25&product=013-00107-01
http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp?market=1&subcategory=26&product=013-00139-01
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Shrink tube size for Kroy 2500 |
Anything you need to label can be done with 1/8" tube. I have completed
two aircraft with just the one size (1/8).
Ken Melvin
N51KX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Jurotich
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shrink tube size for Kroy 2500
Folks
I got a Kroy K2500 with a 1 inch tape but no shrink tube. Buying 2
sizes
seems a waste. What size do you recommend 1/8, 3/16, 1/4?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | fast on terminal strips |
Jim, try...........
There is a site in the USA
http://www.weco.ca/main2_3I.asp?SessionID=HU9JMKTZR4 will get you near. Have
a look at the 401 6.3mm
Thatused to solve that problem, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Stone
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fast on terminal strips
Can someone give me a steer to a terminal block or strip that uses fast on
tabs. Can't find it at B&C, Mouser or Digikey.
Thanks,
Jim
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mjheinen(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shrink tube size for Kroy 2500 |
Kroy labels and heat shrink: I used several sizes....thus I could also label control
cables and bundles of wires.
If you can get several others together and put an order together you can probably
work a deal and get a free printer you could then circulate or have at the
local Eaa for folks to use. See Hanover Technical Supply...they can usually work
you out some kind of deal like that...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of RG-142 |
Christley wrote:
So, how much do you spend to save $30 ($3x10years)?
Well, the money you can afford spend today to save $30 in the future is
markedly less than one might expect. For people that look at money in an
analytical manner (which exempts most aircraft owners), they need to know
what the Present Value (PV) of savings is 10 years out.
In other words, you probably can't afford to spend $1 today to save $3 ten
years from now. Given the already remarked risk that you may sell the
plane, have someone else take ownership of it after midnight, land 2500'
long on a 3000' runway, have a twister vertically stack all the planes on
the ramp (and so on) before you have the opportunity realize the full
savings, I would think one should be skeptical about spending more than $5,
$10 at the very most, to save $30 over 10 years. Certainly, any $3 per year
saving at the 20 year mark can just be rounded off and dropped from the
savings equation--no value.
Mind you, this is only for the analytical types. Aircraft owners are
allowed to spend up to $40 to realize a $30 savings. If we spend an extra
$100 for feather-coax, to save 1.031 pound, you can be assured that during
the subsequent test flight, you will be able to sense and remark "you know,
it did seem to accelerate and get off a little faster than it used to...and
cruise also seemed to be a little faster."
Ultimately, if we are keenly interested in weight reduction, most of us are
setting on 10-15 pounds of wasted payload that we should get rid of.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
Chris Krieg wrote:
>
> What is a rubber ducky antenna?
A short, flexible, rubber-covered antenna often used on handheld radios.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Worth of a Pound? |
Thanks to the many Aeroelectric listers who commented on what a pound is
worth. Its value is between $1 and $1000; that's my story and I'm stickin'
to it!
I think the issue boils down to physical and existential qualities:
Tangibles:
The justifiable expense to remove a pound of weight from your aircraft
varies depending on who you are and what you want in an aircraft. Variables
include mission, mission value, aircraft lifetime and who is paying the
bill.
If we exert a force over a given distance, we have done work. pound-feet
(lb-ft). We can think of work as energy expended. Power is how fast we can
do work or how fast we can expend energy, measured by work/time lb-ft/s, or
horsepower (1 hp = 550 lb-ft/s). So for every 1 pound we lift to 10,000 feet
in 10 minutes (600 seconds) we have to use: 10,000
lb-ft/600s=16.7lb-ft/s/550 lb-ft/s=0.03 hp.
But even this is complicated by the fact that the engine has to boost the
part of itself that generates the additional 0.03 hp....and the fuel to
generate it....and the airplane structure to carry it. Yikes. Bob's
(re:Voyager) comment on #4 of additional airplane and fuel for #1 of added
payload is probably close.
A pound here and a pound there and pretty soon you'll wish you'd paid closer
attention to the details.
Intangibles:
The human subjective qualities are often the most important parts of an
aircraft. Is she beautiful? Is it done expertly--even in places no one will
ever look? Am I satisfied? How about that Imron paint job? It that purely
functional? How about the sleek beauty in the slanted tail...does she really
go THAT fast?
Here's an MBA discussion of the whole issue.
http://www.solutionmatrix.com/
But I can give you the MBA education free---as a recent Business Week
article said, "this new philosophy of (Return on Investment) says it's the
things that are most difficult to measure that matter most of all.
Hey...the Super-2-CCA Fatwire and the Super-lightweight RG142 are on the
way!
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"I only regret my economies."
--Reynolds Price
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
" We live in the greatest country in the world."
Next to, actually.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
At 11:51 AM 5/23/04, you wrote:
>
>Charlie
>
>I have researched the AG's speeches and cannot find the remarks you refer to
>anywhere. Could you please advise me of the speech or speeches that contain
>these remarks, date or venue would be sufficient.
They don't exist. I follow public statements from the AG, DHS Sec. Tom
Ridge, Asa Hutchenson, Pres. Bush, Sec. Rumsfeld and Sec. Powell. I get a
Lexus-Nexus report every morning. They simply aren't there.
But once you've convinced yourself that someone is the embodiment of pure
evil, lying about what they say is a minor transgression. If you think
"The Jews" are evil, you come up with "The Protocols of the Elders of
Zion." If you think Bush and Ashcroft are evil, you come up with this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
> I watched the man make the statement on national TV. If I can find a
> link to an actual quote, I'll submit it to the list.
No. Enough already. Please submit it to some other list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>
> At 11:51 AM 5/23/04, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>>I have researched the AG's speeches and cannot find the remarks you refer to
>>anywhere. Could you please advise me of the speech or speeches that contain
>>these remarks, date or venue would be sufficient.
>
>
> They don't exist. I follow public statements from the AG, DHS Sec. Tom
> Ridge, Asa Hutchenson, Pres. Bush, Sec. Rumsfeld and Sec. Powell. I get a
> Lexus-Nexus report every morning. They simply aren't there.
>
> But once you've convinced yourself that someone is the embodiment of pure
> evil, lying about what they say is a minor transgression. If you think
> "The Jews" are evil, you come up with "The Protocols of the Elders of
> Zion." If you think Bush and Ashcroft are evil, you come up with this.
>
I'm not afraid of the "man" coming down on me as a terrorist, but I AM
afraid of getting caught up in the Great Beaucracy". It'll grind you up
an not even know you're there. Like the guys who use minimum sized N
numbers where they're hard to see, I'd rather just quitely stay below
the radar.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Gerry Holland wrote:
>
> Gentlemen......
>
>
>>>I have researched the AG's speeches and cannot find the remarks you refer to
>>>anywhere. Could you please advise me of the speech or speeches that contain
>>>these remarks, date or venue would be sufficient.
>>
>>They don't exist. I follow public statements from the AG, DHS Sec. Tom
>>Ridge, Asa Hutchenson, Pres. Bush, Sec. Rumsfeld and Sec. Powell. I get a
>>Lexus-Nexus report every morning. They simply aren't there.
>>
>>But once you've convinced yourself that someone is the embodiment of pure
>>evil, lying about what they say is a minor transgression. If you think
>>"The Jews" are evil, you come up with "The Protocols of the Elders of
>>Zion." If you think Bush and Ashcroft are evil, you come up with this.
>
>
> This thread is going where?
>
> Gerry Holland
Gerry, the only place I see it going is the advise not to put anything
in your OBAM aircraft that give those-who-know-more-that-we (as Bob
might say) the ability to track you. I don't believe anyone in the
government is any more evil than the typical American, and that is what
scares the S%*7 outta me. Beaucracies tend to make people discontented,
apathetic, and sometimes mean. Sometimes they force people to be this
way. Where I go is my business, and I don't want the Feds to know about
it, 'cause I've been on the losing end of using facts and logic to
explain that I'm not a criminal.
I most cases, devices that allow you to be tracked do NOT increase your
safety as they only allow searchers to find the pieces easier.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Winston Churchill is said to have defined a fanatic as:
"One who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject"
Enough already, Take your diatribes else where, Please. LRE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
Where I go is my business, and I don't want the Feds to know about
> it, 'cause I've been on the losing end of using facts and logic to
> explain that I'm not a criminal.
>
> I most cases, devices that allow you to be tracked do NOT increase your
> safety as they only allow searchers to find the pieces easier.
I agree, but what are you going to do when the government requires us to
install mode S (or whatever) type transponders that will identify your
aircraft specifically and be able to track it via satellite or whatever?
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alarm System
>
> Gerry Holland wrote:
> >
> > Gentlemen......
> >
> >
> >>>I have researched the AG's speeches and cannot find the remarks you
refer to
> >>>anywhere. Could you please advise me of the speech or speeches that
contain
> >>>these remarks, date or venue would be sufficient.
> >>
> >>They don't exist. I follow public statements from the AG, DHS Sec. Tom
> >>Ridge, Asa Hutchenson, Pres. Bush, Sec. Rumsfeld and Sec. Powell. I get
a
> >>Lexus-Nexus report every morning. They simply aren't there.
> >>
> >>But once you've convinced yourself that someone is the embodiment of
pure
> >>evil, lying about what they say is a minor transgression. If you think
> >>"The Jews" are evil, you come up with "The Protocols of the Elders of
> >>Zion." If you think Bush and Ashcroft are evil, you come up with this.
> >
> >
> > This thread is going where?
> >
> > Gerry Holland
>
> Gerry, the only place I see it going is the advise not to put anything
> in your OBAM aircraft that give those-who-know-more-that-we (as Bob
> might say) the ability to track you. I don't believe anyone in the
> government is any more evil than the typical American, and that is what
> scares the S%*7 outta me. Beaucracies tend to make people discontented,
> apathetic, and sometimes mean. Sometimes they force people to be this
> way. Where I go is my business, and I don't want the Feds to know about
> it, 'cause I've been on the losing end of using facts and logic to
> explain that I'm not a criminal.
>
> I most cases, devices that allow you to be tracked do NOT increase your
> safety as they only allow searchers to find the pieces easier.
>
> --
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> alleviated by information and experience."
> Veeduber
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul <pwilson(at)climber.org> |
| Subject: | Source for "weatherpac" connectors |
Here is a source for the GM sealed connectors.
http://fordfuelinjection.com/weatherpack.html
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Load Dump test status |
Well the physical testing has been completed.
It appears that ALL my test objectives were met, including load dump
suppression methods etc.
Test data analysis remains to be completed and this will take another week
or so. This includes verifying design margins on the recommended Load dump
suppressors. The actual test report, in a usable to others form, is a very
large effort that will be completed much later for the record and at that
time available on the internet for reading etc.
It appears that load dumps have the potential to exceed the requirements of
DO-160D under certain conditions making some sort of suppression necessary
(at least to me).
The test setup included a simulated complete aircraft electrical system,
from battery to alternator and simulated aircraft system loads. This made
the testing more complex (than some had suggested was necessary) but in the
end proved to be needed as Load Dumps can have system wide impacts. Testing
was done (and documentated) so that the test results can be duplicated by
others and individual tests were repeated over several days and shown to
have very repeatable results. Test setup documentation has been documented
to include test setup parts used (including brand and part numbers) as well
as test equipment serial numbers etc.
Please consider that this effort is done on a time available basis. Thus the
documentation will lag way behind firm results in pencil and test equipment
analysis form.
Expect conclusions and recommendations by the end of this month.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
So... Anyone want to help me figure out why
my Stormscope WX-8 is picking up false indications?
I'm suspecting possible noise in the electrical
system, although it behaves the same way with
the engine running or not.
I haven't tried any noise filters yet.
My transponder also generates a whine in the
headset when it is in the standby, on, or alt
positions, but makes no difference to the
WX-8 even if turned off. I'm also hearing a
slight pulse from the strobes when they are on.
Anyone recommend a good test procedure
that doesn't involve the war in Iraq? ;-)
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | ramblings........ |
Blame it on Bush or Halliburton.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj
Merrill
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ramblings........
So... Anyone want to help me figure out why
my Stormscope WX-8 is picking up false indications?
I'm suspecting possible noise in the electrical
system, although it behaves the same way with
the engine running or not.
I haven't tried any noise filters yet.
My transponder also generates a whine in the
headset when it is in the standby, on, or alt
positions, but makes no difference to the
WX-8 even if turned off. I'm also hearing a
slight pulse from the strobes when they are on.
Anyone recommend a good test procedure
that doesn't involve the war in Iraq? ;-)
-Dj
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> Blame it on Bush or Halliburton.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
Hmm, well, at least on this list
Bush is generating enough static to be causing
the problem... *grin*
But seriously... ?
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
Why not Kerry? He's the one causing the disturbance
And if it is O.K. tomorrow, you know that he has flip-flopped again!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ramblings........
>
> Blame it on Bush or Halliburton.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj
> Merrill
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ramblings........
>
>
>
>
>
> So... Anyone want to help me figure out why
> my Stormscope WX-8 is picking up false indications?
> I'm suspecting possible noise in the electrical
> system, although it behaves the same way with
> the engine running or not.
> I haven't tried any noise filters yet.
> My transponder also generates a whine in the
> headset when it is in the standby, on, or alt
> positions, but makes no difference to the
> WX-8 even if turned off. I'm also hearing a
> slight pulse from the strobes when they are on.
> Anyone recommend a good test procedure
> that doesn't involve the war in Iraq? ;-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | ramblings........ |
What happens when the engine is not running and the systems are powered
by the battery?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj
Merrill
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ramblings........
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> Blame it on Bush or Halliburton.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
Hmm, well, at least on this list
Bush is generating enough static to be causing
the problem... *grin*
But seriously... ?
-Dj
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
cgalley wrote:
> And if it is O.K. tomorrow, you know that he has flip-flopped again!
I once built a circuit that flip-flopped.... ;-)
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
> What happens when the engine is not running and the systems are powered
> by the battery?
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
Same behaviour whether the engine is running or not.
I suspect one of the other instruments/devices, but I
haven't as yet been able to isolate it.
I'm going to play some more with it, but thought
I would ask for advice before going too far. Figured
someone might have already been down this road.
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alarm System |
> Where I go is my business, and I don't want the
Feds to know about
> > it, 'cause I've been on the losing end of using
facts and logic to
> > explain that I'm not a criminal.
> >
> > I most cases, devices that allow you to be
tracked do NOT
> increase your
> > safety as they only allow searchers to find the
pieces easier.
>
> I agree, but what are you going to do when the
government requires
> us to
> install mode S (or whatever) type transponders
that will identify your
> aircraft specifically and be able to track it via
satellite or
> whatever?
> Cliff
Install it, then run it when they tell me to (and
ONLY when they tell me to). The goal is not to be
noticed by the bureaucrats (I finally found my
dictionary). Remain legal and inconspicuous. All
you can ever do is reduce your chances of being
"Forcifully Used for Carnal Knowledge".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frequent flyer <jdhcv(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Toggle Switch Installation. |
Bob,
Awhile back you presented a very clever way of keeping
toggle switches keyed. I can't find the info but I
thought it entailed gluing the plate with the tab to
the back of the panel. Can you refresh my old memory?
Thanks,
Jack
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Hawker Odyssey Battery |
Hi ! Guys,
I have a Kitfox IV Classic Speedster with Rotax 582. I live
in Australia. If I leave the plane say about 3 weeks without starting it
just won't start on it;s own battery. It appears to be swinging over OK but
I have come to the conclusion that it is just below the 300RPM ignition cut
in point. It is a 16AH wet cell motorcycle battery that's only 6 months old.
The complete Rotax 582 is also almost new at about 60 hours.
It appears that wet cells discharge fairly well left standing, although it
seems to have plenty of kick it must be down just enough to cause the
problem. If we jump start it from the car it fires up instantly and is OK
the rest of the day.
Now a Hawker Odyssey battery appears to be much improved over the standard
wet cell. It doesn't lose it's charge nearly as fast and is happier deep
cycling. It lasts longer, can be charged quicker, cranks the motor faster
etc. Our club put one in the Jabiru trainer and it lives up to all these
claims with flying colours. My problem is that out here in Australia the
cost of what we call a Model 700 and is the US PC625 is $265AU. In USA a
very usual price is only $89US. So I figured it had to worth importing one.
I have only been able to get one quote to do so but that was $210US
shipping. I find that hard to understand as the battery is supposed to be no
trouble to ship like a wet cell. It only weighs 6Kg's and $210US doesn't
seem to make sense to me comparing against other imports I have made.
I know I need one of these batteries, does anyone have any ideas how I can
get one here in Australia at a sensible price. I suppose I could try flying
my Kitfox over and picking one up !
Thanks Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | starter wire run |
Harmon Rocket
Battery behind rear seat
B&C starter
B&C alternator
I'm about to run the pos lead from the battery thru the firewall. I am aware of
two ways to wire the starter.
1. The most common is to attach the pos lead from the battery to a starter solenoid
with is mounted on the firewall, then forward to the starter. The alternator
would have a separate lead going back to the bat side of the starter solenoid.
2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in method one and run
the wire with no breaks all the way to the starter. From the starter it could
then move a foot or so to the right to catch the alternator B lead. This method
allows for fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of the firewall.
I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control the current
going to the starter (following selection of the starter button).
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hawker Odyssey Battery |
In my humble opinion, something is amiss here.
1) There most definitely IS a problem shipping batteries by air--hazardous
cargo and all that. There is also some international WTO craziness about not
exporting lead batteries period....part of this has to do with lead disposal
I would guess.
2) The Hawker Odyssey is just a plain old battery. If it was 20% better than
the average lot, that would be earthshaking and they would wind up with all
the business. So I assume it's not.
3) There may be something discharging the battery. Check into this.
4) The starting problem is a separate issue. Check all the obvious stuff
that causes hard-starting. What if you had to hand-prop it?
5) There are lots of Australian battery companies. And there are lots of
Australians who use batteries for very important stuff. Shouldn't be hard
to find a good one.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"...as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We
also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some
things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we
don't know we don't know."
--Donald Rumsfeld
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
Werner -
Did you figure this out? What was it?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:06 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
> -->
>
> Larry,
>
> I did as their directions say, but it's not working =(;o((
>
> And my plane is flying, just not according to the activated
> flightplan, just GPS bearings.
>
> Thanks
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
>
> >
> > I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning
> corrrectly --
> > but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the
> documentaiton
> > that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to work.
> > Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific directions.
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> > >
> > >
> > > -->
> > >
> > > Hello Folks,
> > >
> > > who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> > > flightplan feature?
> > >
> > > I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak,
> I get the
> > > bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> flightplan shows up
> > > with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
> > >
> > > Any advice much appreciated
> > >
> > > crossposted on Avionics list
> > >
> > > Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
Might be silly of me to suggest this, but have you tried just disconnecting
the leads off the battery when not flying........sounds like you may have
something shorting out and draining the battery some. Or maybe the engine
isn't getting the charging circuit back to the battery good enough?
Just a thought.........
Sid
------------------------------------
I have a Kitfox IV Classic Speedster with Rotax 582. I live
in Australia. If I leave the plane say about 3 weeks without starting it
just won't start on it;s own battery. It appears to be swinging over OK but
I have come to the conclusion that it is just below the 300RPM ignition cut
in point. It is a 16AH wet cell motorcycle battery that's only 6 months old.
The complete Rotax 582 is also almost new at about 60 hours.
It appears that wet cells discharge fairly well left standing, although it
seems to have plenty of kick it must be down just enough to cause the
problem. If we jump start it from the car it fires up instantly and is OK
the rest of the day.
Now a Hawker Odyssey battery appears to be much improved over the standard
wet cell. It doesn't lose it's charge nearly as fast and is happier deep
cycling. It lasts longer, can be charged quicker, cranks the motor faster
etc. Our club put one in the Jabiru trainer and it lives up to all these
claims with flying colours. My problem is that out here in Australia the
cost of what we call a Model 700 and is the US PC625 is $265AU. In USA a
very usual price is only $89US. So I figured it had to worth importing one.
I have only been able to get one quote to do so but that was $210US
shipping. I find that hard to understand as the battery is supposed to be no
trouble to ship like a wet cell. It only weighs 6Kg's and $210US doesn't
seem to make sense to me comparing against other imports I have made.
I know I need one of these batteries, does anyone have any ideas how I can
get one here in Australia at a sensible price. I suppose I could try flying
my Kitfox over and picking one up !
Thanks Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | starter wire run |
Ahhh, Jim.
Not trying to be funny, but is this a question or a comment?
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> Stone
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: starter wire run
>
>
>
>
> Harmon Rocket
> Battery behind rear seat
> B&C starter
> B&C alternator
>
> I'm about to run the pos lead from the battery thru the firewall.
> I am aware of two ways to wire the starter.
>
> 1. The most common is to attach the pos lead from the battery to
> a starter solenoid with is mounted on the firewall, then forward
> to the starter. The alternator would have a separate lead going
> back to the bat side of the starter solenoid.
>
> 2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in
> method one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the
> starter. From the starter it could then move a foot or so to the
> right to catch the alternator B lead. This method allows for
> fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of the firewall.
> I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control
> the current going to the starter (following selection of the
> starter button).
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter wire run |
my question, your comment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: starter wire run
>
> Ahhh, Jim.
>
> Not trying to be funny, but is this a question or a comment?
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> > Stone
> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:28 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: starter wire run
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Harmon Rocket
> > Battery behind rear seat
> > B&C starter
> > B&C alternator
> >
> > I'm about to run the pos lead from the battery thru the firewall.
> > I am aware of two ways to wire the starter.
> >
> > 1. The most common is to attach the pos lead from the battery to
> > a starter solenoid with is mounted on the firewall, then forward
> > to the starter. The alternator would have a separate lead going
> > back to the bat side of the starter solenoid.
> >
> > 2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in
> > method one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the
> > starter. From the starter it could then move a foot or so to the
> > right to catch the alternator B lead. This method allows for
> > fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of the firewall.
> > I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control
> > the current going to the starter (following selection of the
> > starter button).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
| Subject: | permanent magnet alternator question |
I have a 33 year old motorcycle with a permanent
magnet alternator. It regulates the voltage with
a big zener diode and a rectifier. It will run
very well without a battery.
It seems that the new type of regulators which
are a mystery box with fins on them, work differently
somehow and will not work without a battery.
What is the difference between them and what makes
the new ones better. My guess is they dont make
zeners big enough for the high output of the newer
permanent magnet alternators and they had to
go with some other method of regulating but I dont
know.
My old example seems to be fairly reliable still
working after all these years. Lucas manufactrued.
The new ones seem good also. Got 2300 hours on one
on a small tractor.
thanks
Jim Pollard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
Hello Larry,
did search this message just yesterday, yes, it was figured out, the older
controller of the digitrak had problems with the information of the 196,
I've got a new controller from TruTrak last week and now it is working
perfect, intercept, and then following my flightplan. And this all for no
cost!!! Now this is real customer service, I even got the replacement
beforehand! Juts added the altitude hold recently and is also working to
all my expectation!
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
> Werner -
>
> Did you figure this out? What was it?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:06 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > I did as their directions say, but it's not working =(;o((
> >
> > And my plane is flying, just not according to the activated
> > flightplan, just GPS bearings.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning
> > corrrectly --
> > > but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the
> > documentaiton
> > > that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to work.
> > > Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific directions.
> > >
> > > -
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> > > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -->
> > > >
> > > > Hello Folks,
> > > >
> > > > who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> > > > flightplan feature?
> > > >
> > > > I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak,
> > I get the
> > > > bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> > flightplan shows up
> > > > with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
> > > >
> > > > Any advice much appreciated
> > > >
> > > > crossposted on Avionics list
> > > >
> > > > Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | starter wire run |
Thanks. Here goes an opinion/comment ....
Since method #1 is known to work without problems, I would stick with it. In
a Rocket you won't notice the weight difference in wire.
Just curious ... Is there a solenoid at the battery as well so you don't
have such a long length of "hot" wire?? Or did I miss something?
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> Stone
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:53 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter wire run
>
>
>
>
> my question, your comment.
>
> [snip]
> > > Harmon Rocket
> > > Battery behind rear seat
> > > B&C starter
> > > B&C alternator
> > >
> > > I'm about to run the pos lead from the battery thru the firewall.
> > > I am aware of two ways to wire the starter.
> > >
> > > 1. The most common is to attach the pos lead from the battery to
> > > a starter solenoid with is mounted on the firewall, then forward
> > > to the starter. The alternator would have a separate lead going
> > > back to the bat side of the starter solenoid.
> > >
> > > 2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in
> > > method one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the
> > > starter. From the starter it could then move a foot or so to the
> > > right to catch the alternator B lead. This method allows for
> > > fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of the firewall.
> > > I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control
> > > the current going to the starter (following selection of the
> > > starter button).
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196 |
I'm glad you worked it out.
I'm left wondering if I have an older controller. Do you know how to tell?
Serial number perhaps? I'm days away from putting on the top skin over the
panel......
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:00 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
> -->
>
> Hello Larry,
>
> did search this message just yesterday, yes, it was figured
> out, the older controller of the digitrak had problems with
> the information of the 196, I've got a new controller from
> TruTrak last week and now it is working perfect, intercept,
> and then following my flightplan. And this all for no cost!!!
> Now this is real customer service, I even got the replacement
> beforehand! Juts added the altitude hold recently and is
> also working to all my expectation!
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and Garmin 196
>
>
>
> >
> > Werner -
> >
> > Did you figure this out? What was it?
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 3:06 PM
> > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and
> Garmin 196
> > >
> > >
> > > -->
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > I did as their directions say, but it's not working =(;o((
> > >
> > > And my plane is flying, just not according to the activated
> > > flightplan, just GPS bearings.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and
> Garmin 196
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have the same equipment, and believe it's functioning
> > > corrrectly --
> > > > but I'm not flying yet. I think I recall seeing in the
> > > documentaiton
> > > > that you have to be in motion for the nav/flightplan stuff to
> > > > work. Check the docs on their website. They have 196 specific
> > > > directions.
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Larry Bowen
> > > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > > > http://BowenAero.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Werner Schneider [mailto:wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:34 AM
> > > > > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: HELP needed digitrak and
> Garmin 196
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -->
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > who has a digitrak and a Garmin 196 hooked up and can use the
> > > > > flightplan feature?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've configured both according the guidelines of TruTrak,
> > > I get the
> > > > > bearing info of the GPS, but never an activated
> > > flightplan shows up
> > > > > with the -F- symbol on the digitrak.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice much appreciated
> > > > >
> > > > > crossposted on Avionics list
> > > > >
> > > > > Werner (Glastar HB-YKP)
> >
> >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | permanent magnet alternator question |
For PM alternators there are two types of regulators, linear and non-linear.
Linear regulators can be further divided into series and shunt regulators.
A shut regulator dumps extra power. For example imagine a water pump station
where you want to control the output pressure of the pump. One method is to
connect up a pressure valve which links output of the pump back to the
input. Then when the pressure gets too high water from the output of the
pump gets diverted back to the input of the water pump. This is the way the
zener diode works. It dumps the power back to ground when voltage gets too
high. The problem with this solution is that you have to make sure your
valve/zener can handle the maximum flow (power) of the pump (PM alternator).
This gets really expensive with zeners as really high power zener's are
expensive.
The second type of linear regulator is called a series regulator. To use the
water example, imagine that rather than dumping the water back to the input
you let the pump run full blast, then have a valve connected between the
pump and your system, then as the system pressure drops you open the valve.
When the pressure on your system increases you close the valve. Thus the
valve is between the pump and your system, or in series. As you can imagine
the valve will get hot that is as you restrict the power you will cause it
to do work and thus generate heat.
The third type of regulator is a non-linear regulator. These regulators
operate similar to the series regulator expect the valve can only be fully
open or fully closed. Thus you turn the water on full blast or turn it fully
off. Well this creates a lot of water pulses on your water system, therefore
you need to put a bladder tank or filter on your system to remove the
pulses. The advantage here is that the valve will not get as hot as that it
is either off or on and never partially restricting the flow.
Back to your question, the zener system is a shut regulator while most of
the big fin regulators are series regulators. Eventually there will be some
manufactures that make non-linear regulators as that they have the potential
of wasting less energy.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim and
Lucy
Subject: AeroElectric-List: permanent magnet alternator question
I have a 33 year old motorcycle with a permanent
magnet alternator. It regulates the voltage with
a big zener diode and a rectifier. It will run
very well without a battery.
It seems that the new type of regulators which
are a mystery box with fins on them, work differently
somehow and will not work without a battery.
What is the difference between them and what makes
the new ones better. My guess is they dont make
zeners big enough for the high output of the newer
permanent magnet alternators and they had to
go with some other method of regulating but I dont
know.
My old example seems to be fairly reliable still
working after all these years. Lucas manufactrued.
The new ones seem good also. Got 2300 hours on one
on a small tractor.
thanks
Jim Pollard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
Rex and Jan,
I would be happy to research the costs and regulations of my buying and
sending you a battery from here in Michigan..........let me know the exact
size (dimensions), make and model of the battery and your city in Aus. to
figure the shipping. I can purchase and send it directly to you at my
costs.
I could also meet you in Oshkosh and deliver your new battery there.
:-)
Sid
-------------------------
Might be silly of me to suggest this, but have you tried just
disconnecting
the leads off the battery when not flying........sounds like you may have
something shorting out and draining the battery some. Or maybe the engine
isn't getting the charging circuit back to the battery good enough?
Just a thought.........
Sid
------------------------------------
I have a Kitfox IV Classic Speedster with Rotax 582. I live
in Australia. If I leave the plane say about 3 weeks without starting it
just won't start on it;s own battery. It appears to be swinging over OK but
I have come to the conclusion that it is just below the 300RPM ignition cut
in point. It is a 16AH wet cell motorcycle battery that's only 6 months old.
The complete Rotax 582 is also almost new at about 60 hours.
It appears that wet cells discharge fairly well left standing, although it
seems to have plenty of kick it must be down just enough to cause the
problem. If we jump start it from the car it fires up instantly and is OK
the rest of the day.
Now a Hawker Odyssey battery appears to be much improved over the standard
wet cell. It doesn't lose it's charge nearly as fast and is happier deep
cycling. It lasts longer, can be charged quicker, cranks the motor faster
etc. Our club put one in the Jabiru trainer and it lives up to all these
claims with flying colours. My problem is that out here in Australia the
cost of what we call a Model 700 and is the US PC625 is $265AU. In USA a
very usual price is only $89US. So I figured it had to worth importing one.
I have only been able to get one quote to do so but that was $210US
shipping. I find that hard to understand as the battery is supposed to be no
trouble to ship like a wet cell. It only weighs 6Kg's and $210US doesn't
seem to make sense to me comparing against other imports I have made.
I know I need one of these batteries, does anyone have any ideas how I can
get one here in Australia at a sensible price. I suppose I could try flying
my Kitfox over and picking one up !
Thanks Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter wire run |
>
> Thanks. Here goes an opinion/comment ....
>
> Since method #1 is known to work without problems, I would stick with it.
In
> a Rocket you won't notice the weight difference in wire.
I concur with that logic. However, weight effects the Rocket just like any
other airplane.
>
> Just curious ... Is there a solenoid at the battery as well so you don't
> have such a long length of "hot" wire?? Or did I miss something?
Yes, I have two Odysee 680s each controlled by a contactor at the battery.
> James
Thanks for your opinion,
Jim Stone
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> > Stone
> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:53 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: starter wire run
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > my question, your comment.
> >
> > [snip]
>
> > > > Harmon Rocket
> > > > Battery behind rear seat
> > > > B&C starter
> > > > B&C alternator
> > > >
> > > > I'm about to run the pos lead from the battery thru the firewall.
> > > > I am aware of two ways to wire the starter.
> > > >
> > > > 1. The most common is to attach the pos lead from the battery to
> > > > a starter solenoid with is mounted on the firewall, then forward
> > > > to the starter. The alternator would have a separate lead going
> > > > back to the bat side of the starter solenoid.
> > > >
> > > > 2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in
> > > > method one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the
> > > > starter. From the starter it could then move a foot or so to the
> > > > right to catch the alternator B lead. This method allows for
> > > > fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of the firewall.
> > > > I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control
> > > > the current going to the starter (following selection of the
> > > > starter button).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
For Hawker batteries in Australia see:
http://www.powerware.com/DC_Power/Batteries.asp
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ramblings........ |
the battery goes dead!!!!!
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>What happens when the engine is not running and the systems are powered
>by the battery?
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj
>Merrill
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ramblings........
>
>
>
>
>Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Blame it on Bush or Halliburton.
>>
>>Bruce
>>www.glasair.org
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, well, at least on this list
>Bush is generating enough static to be causing
>the problem... *grin*
>
> But seriously... ?
>
>-Dj
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re starting Rotax 582 & Odyssey battery |
Thanks guys for your comments. I am a retired electronics tech and have
checked such things as leakage with master off etc. Also checked charging
and this is verified anyway by only trouble for first start for the day etc.
If I suspected anything other than the battery charicteristics it would be
the starter or a worn or excessive clearance rotary valve housing.
Thanks also re comments on importing. This is the way I am pursuing. Thanks
for the technical names of the Odyssey battery this might help me find an
equivalent although I favour the Odyssey as it is a known proven fact this
is better than a standard wet cell. Anyone that doesn't accept that should
do some checking before buying their next battery. I don't mean just
accepting manufacturers claims. Actually the battery I want is known in USA
as PC625 but the same battery is sold in Australia as Model 700. I suspect
this is part of covering their tracks to get away with $265AU here. At the
moment I am looking at $57.32 US. It's just a question of the shipping and I
am hopeful I will get some sense here.
My conclusions are that the starter and rotary valve are probably OK
mainly because it's all only 60 hours old. Studying wet cell behaviour adds
to my conclusions that it is the battery. Wet cells lose charge quickly
standing idle. The Odyssey takes much longer. Odyssey also cranks much
better due to type of cell. Of interest is that the next day or so after
flying it is still fine. Three weeks or so though is a different matter.
Also the Ducatti CDI's don't fire until 300RPM and it seems that this is the
basis of the problem. The battery only needs to be very slightly less than
perfect and we are cranking at what looks like OK but in fact I suspect
below 300 RPM. In fact I think I am starting to pick the slight difference.
Am I falsely biassed towards the Odyssey ? Well no I don't think so. I
can see with my own eyes what one does in our club Jabiru trainer apart from
studying cell charicteristics and Odyssey owners comments.
Regards Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re starting Rotax 582 & Odyssey battery |
| From: | "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott(at)commander.com> |
I paid about $220 for mine is ie a 700 form Nrg automotive in Rydenmere 0296381037
also have you called Jabiru on 0741551778 and asked where and for what price they
get theirs?
Ian Scott (with an Odessey in my car and Jabiru J400)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rex &
Jan Shaw
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re starting Rotax 582 & Odyssey battery
Thanks guys for your comments. I am a retired electronics tech and have
checked such things as leakage with master off etc. Also checked charging
and this is verified anyway by only trouble for first start for the day etc.
If I suspected anything other than the battery charicteristics it would be
the starter or a worn or excessive clearance rotary valve housing.
Thanks also re comments on importing. This is the way I am pursuing. Thanks
for the technical names of the Odyssey battery this might help me find an
equivalent although I favour the Odyssey as it is a known proven fact this
is better than a standard wet cell. Anyone that doesn't accept that should
do some checking before buying their next battery. I don't mean just
accepting manufacturers claims. Actually the battery I want is known in USA
as PC625 but the same battery is sold in Australia as Model 700. I suspect
this is part of covering their tracks to get away with $265AU here. At the
moment I am looking at $57.32 US. It's just a question of the shipping and I
am hopeful I will get some sense here.
My conclusions are that the starter and rotary valve are probably OK
mainly because it's all only 60 hours old. Studying wet cell behaviour adds
to my conclusions that it is the battery. Wet cells lose charge quickly
standing idle. The Odyssey takes much longer. Odyssey also cranks much
better due to type of cell. Of interest is that the next day or so after
flying it is still fine. Three weeks or so though is a different matter.
Also the Ducatti CDI's don't fire until 300RPM and it seems that this is the
basis of the problem. The battery only needs to be very slightly less than
perfect and we are cranking at what looks like OK but in fact I suspect
below 300 RPM. In fact I think I am starting to pick the slight difference.
Am I falsely biassed towards the Odyssey ? Well no I don't think so. I
can see with my own eyes what one does in our club Jabiru trainer apart from
studying cell charicteristics and Odyssey owners comments.
Regards Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting Rotax 582 & Odyssey battery |
Rex,
>Wet cells lose charge quickly standing idle. The Odyssey takes much longer.
Odyssey also cranks much
>better due to type of cell.
Bob would say, "So where is your test that shows this to be true?" (I would
say the same thing, but evoking Bob's name add a certain credence....)
>Also the Ducatti CDI's don't fire until 300RPM and it seems that this is
the basis of the problem.
What kind of starter is THAT? If that were true generally, half the stuff in
my backyard would never start. Where's the switch that changes it to 30RPM?
This makes little sense.
If you search Google for "Ducati CDI" (Ducati is spelled with ONE "t") you
will get 40,000 hits. Lots of info there.
Also, you don't mention a primer or a choke. Does the little beastie have
anything to make starting easier?
>Am I falsely biassed towards the Odyssey ? Well no I don't think so.
I do. Let's assume the Hawker Odyssey Battery is the BEST DANGED BATTERY IN
THE UNIVERSE. The right course of action is not to get the BDBITU so you can
light your engine. This does not seem a proper approach at all.
> I can see with my own eyes what one does in our club Jabiru trainer apart
from
>studying cell charicteristics and Odyssey owners comments.
So what are you going to believe, the aeroelectric list or your "lyin'
eyes"?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"The Okies moving to California raised the average IQ of both states."
---Will Rogers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | starter solenoid |
5/26/2004
Here is part of a previous posting from Jim:
<< ...skip....2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in method
one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the starter. From the starter
it could then move a foot or so to the right to catch the alternator B lead.
This method allows for fewer connections and a lot less #2 wire forward of
the
firewall. I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control the current
going to the starter (following selection of the starter button). Thanks,
Jim>>
5/26/2004
Hello Jim, I don't accept your assumption about the solenoid located at the starter.
There are many modern starters that do include a solenoid on the starter itself.
This solenoid, depending upon starter design, can both control electricity to
the starter motor and extension and retraction of the starter spur gear which
cranks the engine.
But these designs require that starter motor current be applied to an electrical
lug on the starter itself in order for the starter mounted solenoid to do its
thing. This means that you must have either a separate starter solenoid activated
by a much lower current starting switch located on the instrument panel
(most common) or a massive mechanical switch to turn on and apply the high current
required by the starter motor (much less common).
It is unfortunate that when the term "starter solenoid" is thrown around that people
do not realize that there can be two differen starter solenoids involved
in one installation and that they perform different functions.
Distinguishing which starter solenoid people are referring to when they write would
help keep things clearer.
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter solenoid |
Thanks OC for your comment,
I spoke to Bill at B&C yesterday and he recommend using a separate contactor
to control the starter for safety reasons. He said I could locate the
contactor on either side of the firewall and to use an ANL on the B line as
it returns to the hot side of this contactor. I am providing this
additional info for the benefit of the group.
Jim
HRII
Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: starter solenoid
>
> 5/26/2004
>
> Here is part of a previous posting from Jim:
>
>
> << ...skip....2. The second method is to eliminate the starter solenoid in
method one and run the wire with no breaks all the way to the starter. From
the starter it could then move a foot or so to the right to catch the
alternator B lead. This method allows for fewer connections and a lot less
#2 wire forward of the
> firewall. I'm assuming the solenoid attached to the starter would control
the current going to the starter (following selection of the starter
button). Thanks,
> Jim>>
>
> 5/26/2004
>
> Hello Jim, I don't accept your assumption about the solenoid located at
the starter.
>
> There are many modern starters that do include a solenoid on the starter
itself. This solenoid, depending upon starter design, can both control
electricity to the starter motor and extension and retraction of the starter
spur gear which cranks the engine.
>
> But these designs require that starter motor current be applied to an
electrical lug on the starter itself in order for the starter mounted
solenoid to do its thing. This means that you must have either a separate
starter solenoid activated by a much lower current starting switch located
on the instrument panel (most common) or a massive mechanical switch to turn
on and apply the high current required by the starter motor (much less
common).
>
> It is unfortunate that when the term "starter solenoid" is thrown around
that people do not realize that there can be two differen starter solenoids
involved in one installation and that they perform different functions.
> Distinguishing which starter solenoid people are referring to when they
write would help keep things clearer.
>
> OC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: permanent magnet alternator question |
Trampas wrote:
>
> For PM alternators there are two types of regulators, linear and non-linear.
> Linear regulators can be further divided into series and shunt regulators.
>
> A shut regulator dumps extra power. ... It dumps the power back to
> ground when voltage gets too high. The problem with this solution is
> that you have to make sure your valve/zener can handle the maximum
> flow (power) of the pump (PM alternator). This gets really expensive
> with zeners as really high power zener's are expensive.
OTOH, you can make a shunt regulator using a shunt transistor to act as the load
element and then you can use a little-bitty reference (zener diode if you will).
And the box would probably need fins to dissipate the heat.
P.S. The discussion about fearing one's government is quite interesting. Not really
appropriate to this list but still interesting. BTW, this comes from someone
who has been on the receiving end of heavy-handed government bureaucrats
who have no checks or balances. It sure does suck.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting Rotax 582 & Odyssey battery |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>>Wet cells lose charge quickly standing idle. The Odyssey takes much longer.
>
> Odyssey also cranks much
>
>>better due to type of cell.
>
>
> Bob would say, "So where is your test that shows this to be true?" (I would
> say the same thing, but evoking Bob's name add a certain credence....)
Actually, this is pretty well known to people who work with rechargeable batteries.
Battery chemistry determines the self-discharge rate. The gell-cells I
have worked with tend to have a lower self-discharge rate than the standard lead-antimony
flooded cell. I haven't researched the self-discharge rates of lead-calcium
batteries since I tend to work with big deep-cycle battery banks used
for alternative power and UPS applications and they don't usually use lead-calcium
batteries. A lead-acid battery will also self-discharge more quickly
at higher temperatures.
As for cranking, different batteries have different internal resistance characteristics.
The newer crop of rolled AGMs like the Odyssey have very low internal
resistance even under partial discharge and will still crank well. (A partially
discharged LA battery has a higher internal resistance and suffers from a
greater voltage drop under load.)
The manufacturer also claims better charge retention, i.e. less self discharge.
I would presume that they are being truthful in their advertising but can't
make a claim either way.
So, yes, I strongly suspect that the Odyssey battery will perform differently than
the run-of-the-mill flooded-cell LA battery.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
"aeroelectric-list"
| Subject: | Fw: LED flashlights |
I know we have some tinkerers on these lists so I thought I should pass on
the prompt and kindly reply of Wayne, of Electrolumens.com
My e-mail to him is at bottom. Looks like he's had a lot of fun with this
sideline (see 2nd link, at bottom of his reply). His prices are a bit high
for me, but he also sells parts to hobbyists/tinkerers - so he's not "too
proud" or "too proprietary oriented" to help someone.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <elektrolumens(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: LED flashlights
> See this link of a modified flashlight I make, called the Anglelux:
>
> http://elektrolumens.com/AngleLux/AngleLux.html
>
>
> This light might be good for aviation, as it has the different lens
> colors. I make them with a single LED, and with the dual LED
> setup.
> I do it as it is interesting and provides work for a help of
> mine, so he can make a little money too.
>
> For using LEDs, you just need to pay attention to the voltage
> requirements of the LED. For the Luxeon LED, you also need to
> pay attention to sinking the heat from the LED.
>
> In the Anglelux, I use a switch in one model to go from a single to
> dual LEDs. It could also be done with a single LED and a switch for
> low power/high power, so when you're in a small area or reading a
> map, you can cut the power down.
>
> Just some suggestons.
>
> I use the genuine Fulton Industries anglehead flashlights in my
> Anglelux. I also have some generic ones, which I cannot use. You
> can have one for minimal cost, if you want one. They work just as
> good, but my customers insist on the American made quality
> product. I also have the Fulton Anglheads, if you want one of those,
> which you can modify yourself. I normally do not sell the flashlight
> like this. I can also throw in the needed heat sink. You'll have to do
> the rest.
>
> Here's a link to flashlights I've modified in the past, for your
> amusement:
>
> http://elektrolumens.com/Modified_Flashlights.html
>
>
> Wayne
> ==============================================
> On 26 May 2004 at 9:45, David Carter wrote:
>
> > Your website was mentioned on a home-built aircraft e-mail forum. I
> > spent a long time in Wal-Mart last month looking at LED flashlights -
> > all but 1 (MagLite) were made in China. I don't buy anything made in
> > China.
> >
> > I'm not in law enforcement or military, so don't need a superbright
> > flashlight. However, I am a pilot, fly at night and on instruments,
> > so need a flashlight with LONG battery life and just average - or less
> > - light "power".
> >
> > I'd think a single NmH AA or AAA battery ought to power a small LED
> > for a "long" time - smaller flashlight is "better" for holding in my
> > mouth or velcro'ing to a mounting pad to shine on instrument panel.
> >
> > Tight beam is probably NOT best for looking at a map or illuminating
> > several instruments on the panel.
> >
> > Any suggestions? I am building my own RV-6 from a kit and am doing
> > all my own electrical work and have experience as a flight simulator
> > repairman (old tube type thing in 1960), so I have some experience
> > soldering and have all the good solder and devices, heat shrink, etc.
> > I have saved some e-mails from the Aeroelectric List that tell how to
> > size the resistors for any particular LED. Seems like "optics head"
> > and the "case & switch" will be the keys to making my own light. I
> > have a "bread board" for prototyping from Radio Shack.
> >
> > Since you seem to be kind enough to make your parts available for the
> > "flashlight hobbyist", may I ask if you have any suggestions of parts
> > for me to make my own "little flashlight"
> >
> > I am also a Scoutmaster and family camper. I need a more normal "2 D
> > cell" type flashlight for my back pack - and for emergency use in my
> > two cars. Is conversion of a std 2 D cell flashlight to LED feasible?
> > Any suggestions for parts for thist?
> >
> > Not trying to take your time away from "real money makers", so hope
> > you don't find my questions bothersome. I'll certainly appreciate any
> > time you can spare to respond to this.
> >
> > David Carter
> > 409-722-7259
> > dcarter(at)datarecall.net
> > 619 S. 16th St.
> > Nederland, Texas 77627
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi Marilyn,
Here it is. In the magizine it was 2.25 inches. My wife scanned it on her
computer and sent it to me to email to you. Can you make the diameter of the
circle 11 inches and what ever on the rest. The red and yellow are solid
color. The zebra looks like it might have some shading. If it looks like too
much trouble or the price is out of sight I might just for get it.
I will call at 1300 hours your time.
Regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Fatwire and RG+142 |
Gee--Bruce Bell's Winged Zebra put such a stop to conversation I forget
what we were talking about.
But I would like to announce (at last) that I have 1000' of Super-2-CCA
Fatwire in house. I also have 800' of RG+142 in transit. I am starting to
pack up standing orders now.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"When dealing with the enemy, it helps if he thinks you're a little bit
crazy."
--Gen. Curtis LeMay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kearnsjoseph(at)yahoo.com> |
I have beengiven a good amount of wire from someone's
dad's garage. It has a mil# M81044/9-20-9.
I think this number is referenced at
www.awcwire.com/pdf/ct-B11-81044-9.pdf
This site says
This dual layer, light weight, high temperature wire
offers outstanding performance that makes it suitable
for many applications where high density cabling and
harnessing are required. Besides offering size and
weight advan-tages, these wires have excellent
resistance to cut through, abrasion, cold flow, shrink
back, notch propaga-tion, and common chemicals. In
addition, they strip and stripe easily, may be potted,
and have low smoke charac-teristics. This wire should
be considered for airframe, avionics, military
vehicle, shipboard, missile, and other electronic
applications.
Insulation
Irradiation cross-linked extruded Polyalkene meeting
the requirements of the above specification.
Jacket
Clear Irradiation cross-linked extruded Polyvinylidene
Fluoride (PVF) with a wall thickness of 0.003 .001
inches (.076 .025 mm). Finished wire diameter and
weight as listed below.
Is this safe for use in experimentals? I have gotten
other stuff that was pvc coated and I want to avoid
future hazards.
Thanks
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane.
Gary Casey
LES #157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
auto parts stores.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
>
> I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
> I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
> by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
> have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
> 0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
> it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
> shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
> cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane.
>
> Gary Casey
> LES #157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
Gary;
Try a welding supply shop. Arc welders use a lot of heavy gauge cable in
various sizes with different covering types, etc. and there should be a
cost-effective solution to be found there.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
>
> I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
> I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
> by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
> have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
> 0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
> it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
> shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
> cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane.
>
> Gary Casey
> LES #157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Buy my Fatwire. Lighter than AWG 2. The insulation comes off without too
much trouble if you want to run a bare cable.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ladyrat01(at)aol.com |
TWAT FACE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Try Stein Aircraft. That is where I got mine. I had to assemble it by
putting ends on it.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
>
> I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
> I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
> by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
> have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
> 0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
> it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
> shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
> cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane.
>
> Gary Casey
> LES #157
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
I've been out of town a lot the last 6 weeks. Haven't seen
any traffic on the 'list' for some time. Thought I'd post
a test message to see if I'm still on the list.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've been out of town a lot the last 6 weeks. Haven't seen
> any traffic on the 'list' for some time. Thought I'd post
> a test message to see if I'm still on the list.
Bob, if you are not on the list please unsubscribe
me too! (joking!) :-)
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
"
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane. Gary Casey LES #157"
Gary,
It's been a tradition of hams to use the outer braid of coaxial
cable for grounding straps. RG8 (common 1/2" cable) braid will carry about
20A or more so you would have to add copies in parallel to accomodate higher
current. Many hams throw out the cable (it deteriorates as constant
impedance over several years) and you might acquire same from locals, strip
cover and press braid off the internal insulation. If you take the trouble
to strip the central wire out of the insulation and thread it through the
braid, then pound flat, you can carry 40A fairly safely.
Ferg, Europa A064
yeah, but the price is right
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Grounding strap/wire |
There's another alternative to welding wire for fat grounding - apparently
the kids are wiring their junkers with heavy-duty power cable to accomodate
the vital thumpthump 'music' which must be pumped out of their jalopies at
100db. I priced some at the local autoradio shop and it's not bad in short
lengths. The usual sizes are #2-0 and 4.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
A most excellent suggestion and I didn't know that your wire is now
available. Compared to prices I have found from various sources the cost of
weight saved for your wire comes out to about $28 a pound, a bargain
compared to other methods. In that case I might change my design around and
use one of your insulated wires for the ground return instead of a braid.
But what does your wire look like if the insulation is pulled off? Wouldn't
it tend to unravel even if it is twisted (some wire is twisted, but most
isn't)?
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
>A most excellent suggestion and I didn't know that your wire is now
>available.
Yep, A giant spool of Super-2-CCA sits ten feet from me.
>Compared to prices I have found from various sources the cost of
>weight saved for your wire comes out to about $28 a pound, a bargain
>compared to other methods. In that case I might change my design around
and
>use one of your insulated wires for the ground return instead of a braid.
>But what does your wire look like if the insulation is pulled off?
Wouldn't
>it tend to unravel even if it is twisted (some wire is twisted, but most
>isn't)?
>Gary Casey
The wire is made up of 15 groups of 17 wires of AWG 23 (0.0226") Copper-Clad
Aluminum, all twisted. It won't unravel easily.
By the way, regarding Ferg's comment on coaxial cable wearing out---Quite
true! A high-powered transmitter can change the characteristics of a cable
in reasonably short order. So buy my RG+142.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"So in the ninth inning; score is tied, bases loaded; two outs; ---when
suddenly an angel came down from Heaven and knocked the ball out of the
park. Some say it was a miracle, but others say it was just a lucky
ng." --Anon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Balic <alex157(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Flat grounding cable |
Gary-
I am using braided hose cover fro my ground strap- it is normally used to
dress up radiator hoses in cars- I bought an entire "kit" to do a 350
Chevy - cost about 25 bucks and it has an entire assortment including about
6' of some heavy gauge in there for the radiator hoses- it is at least #2
since I had to really compress it to fit into the swage connectors- it is
made from tinned copper just like the expensive stuff from spruce- you can
get it from any auto supply, but I ordered mine from summit racing...
Alex
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE:Flat grounding cable |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Are you sure its tinned copper, and not stainless (or tinned
steel)?
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
>
> Gary-
>
> I am using braided hose cover fro my ground strap- it is normally used
> to dress up radiator hoses in cars- I bought an entire "kit" to do a 350
> Chevy - cost about 25 bucks and it has an entire assortment including
> about 6' of some heavy gauge in there for the radiator hoses- it is at
> least #2 since I had to really compress it to fit into the swage
> connectors- it is made from tinned copper just like the expensive stuff
> from spruce- you can get it from any auto supply, but I ordered mine
> from summit racing...
>
> Alex
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Diode on starter relay (solenoid) |
I have my HR II all wired and my neighbor showed me a wiring diagram of a
starter solenoid with a diode between the S terminal and ground. I have
owned 3 planes that didn't have this. What is the thinking behind this? I
also have Van's RV-8 wiring schematic that comes with the wiring kit and it
doesn't call out a diode. However, the diagram I saw with the diode was
from Van's.
?????????
Jim
HR-II #153 flying soon............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Diode on starter relay (solenoid) |
Jim Anglin wrote:
>
> I have my HR II all wired and my neighbor showed me a wiring diagram of a
> starter solenoid with a diode between the S terminal and ground. I have
> owned 3 planes that didn't have this. What is the thinking behind this?
It is a "snubber" diode. It absorbs the energy of the voltage spike caused by
removing the excitation of the starter solenoid when you release the start button
or release the key from the start position. The collapsing magnetic field
generates a big voltage spike just like it does in the primary circuit of your
magneto. The diode just shunts this spike to ground.
While avionics and lights, etc., are unlikely to be damaged by this transient,
it will cause an arc across the contacts of the start button or key switch ultimately
leading to earlier than normal failure.
It is a good idea to install one.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Slobovia Outernational Airport BBQ |
Five days to BBQ DAY. Please plan to visit with us, eat some BBQ & talk
airplanes.
Location: Slobovia Outernational Airport (MS71) 10 mi north of Jackson
MS on the Memphis sectional
Approx. 4000' usable with decent approaches.
Email me direct for a map if you are driving. (Don't trust the online
mapping services for this one.)
You are welcome to come for the day, or stay the weekend. Just throw a
bedroll in the plane/car & we'll find you a place to sleep that's out of
the heat. If you plan to overnight, please call us at 601-879-9596 or
drop us an email at ceengland(at)bellsouth.net so we can get breakfast
stuff lined up.
If you've never done any a/c metal work, you can come & play with drills
& rivet guns. Alternative engine discussions will probably revolve
around the Mazda rotary. (Sorry 'bout that. :-) )
No formal seminars, but lots of knowledge is in the air when we have
these events.
Come on down!
Charlie
Slobovia Outernational Airport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Light potentiometer ? |
Yesterday I took apart my old Turn & Bank Coordinator (a little sping connecting
the gyro with the indicator had popped loose).
I knew it had an "auto-pilot" sensor built into it, but I'd never used that nor
looked at it before.
What I found was a wierd part I'd not seen before:
It works as a potentiometer, but I don't understand how it works. I'll try to describe
it:
Two parallel strips (probably on some base material like glass).
One strip has wires connected at each end (0 and 10 Volts).
The other strip just one wire (output).
The "arm" "connecting" the two strips is a LED (mounted on the gyro) with no physical
connection to the strips (Actually the LED is mounted inside a plastic
tube).
An oddity is that the output did vary even with the LED off as the gyro was moved.
There's a note on the housing saying to only test/calibrate with the housing
on (I suppose to remove ambient light.
Anybody know what such a potentiometer is called and how it works?
Photocell potentiometer?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)smartm.com> |
| Subject: | Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with the
main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
(delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only thing
I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
Art
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | RG142 and the Jones boy |
Eric!
In no way was I attempting a competitive stance! My remarks were
for ground strap use. I thought your excellent RG142 was meant for RF to the
antenna, not to produce ground strapping..........
"By the way, regarding Ferg's comment on coaxial cable wearing out---Quite
true! A high-powered transmitter can change the characteristics of a cable
in reasonably short order. So buy my RG+142."
I'll endorse Eric's remarks all the way............!
Cheers, Ferg
PS: I don't plan a high-powered transmitter, but hope to install a 100W HF
and retractable long wire for those long flights......... I think RG8 will
handle that PS current.
----- Original Message -----
From: "AeroElectric-List Digest Server"
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 05/30/04
| *
|
| ==================================================
| Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
| ==================================================
|
| Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can be also be found in either
| of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
| formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
| Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
| version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
| text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
|
| HTML Version:
|
|
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-05-30.html
|
| Text Version:
|
|
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-05-30.txt
|
|
| ================================================
| EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
| ================================================
|
|
| AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
| ---
| Total Messages Posted Sun 05/30/04: 7
|
|
| Today's Message Index:
| ----------------------
|
| 1. 06:11 AM - Grounding strap (Fergus Kyle)
| 2. 06:17 AM - Grounding strap/wire (Fergus Kyle)
| 3. 06:22 AM - Re: Ground wire (Gary Casey)
| 4. 08:08 AM - Re: Ground wire (Eric M. Jones)
| 5. 08:49 AM - Re:Flat grounding cable (Alex Balic)
| 6. 09:23 AM - Re: Re:Flat grounding cable (Matt Prather)
| 7. 10:57 PM - Diode on starter relay (solenoid) (Jim Anglin)
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding strap
|
|
| "
| From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
|
| I plan to use a flat braided ground cable for my rear-mounted battery, but
| I'm having trouble finding some. Aircraft Spruce will sell a 2-gage cable
| by the foot at something less than $1 an inch (ouch). But I would like to
| have something heavier than that and Alpha makes cable in either 3-gage or
| 0/2, which is what I would prefer. Unfortunately, the only way I can find
| it is by the 100-foot reel. Anyone know of a way to buy this stuff in
| shorter lengths? Or do you think the 0/2-gage is an overkill? I will be
| cranking an IO-540 in my plastic airplane. Gary Casey LES #157"
|
| Gary,
| It's been a tradition of hams to use the outer braid of coaxial
| cable for grounding straps. RG8 (common 1/2" cable) braid will carry about
| 20A or more so you would have to add copies in parallel to accomodate
higher
| current. Many hams throw out the cable (it deteriorates as constant
| impedance over several years) and you might acquire same from locals,
strip
| cover and press braid off the internal insulation. If you take the trouble
| to strip the central wire out of the insulation and thread it through the
| braid, then pound flat, you can carry 40A fairly safely.
| Ferg, Europa A064
| yeah, but the price is right
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grounding strap/wire
|
|
| There's another alternative to welding wire for fat grounding - apparently
| the kids are wiring their junkers with heavy-duty power cable to
accomodate
| the vital thumpthump 'music' which must be pumped out of their jalopies at
| 100db. I priced some at the local autoradio shop and it's not bad in
short
| lengths. The usual sizes are #2-0 and 4.
| Ferg
| Europa A064
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground wire
|
|
| <>
|
| A most excellent suggestion and I didn't know that your wire is now
| available. Compared to prices I have found from various sources the cost
of
| weight saved for your wire comes out to about $28 a pound, a bargain
| compared to other methods. In that case I might change my design around
and
| use one of your insulated wires for the ground return instead of a braid.
| But what does your wire look like if the insulation is pulled off?
Wouldn't
| it tend to unravel even if it is twisted (some wire is twisted, but most
| isn't)?
|
| Gary Casey
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground wire
|
|
|
| >A most excellent suggestion and I didn't know that your wire is now
| >available.
|
| Yep, A giant spool of Super-2-CCA sits ten feet from me.
|
| >Compared to prices I have found from various sources the cost of
| >weight saved for your wire comes out to about $28 a pound, a bargain
| >compared to other methods. In that case I might change my design around
| and
| >use one of your insulated wires for the ground return instead of a braid.
| >But what does your wire look like if the insulation is pulled off?
| Wouldn't
| >it tend to unravel even if it is twisted (some wire is twisted, but most
| >isn't)?
| >Gary Casey
|
| The wire is made up of 15 groups of 17 wires of AWG 23 (0.0226")
Copper-Clad
| Aluminum, all twisted. It won't unravel easily.
|
| By the way, regarding Ferg's comment on coaxial cable wearing out---Quite
| true! A high-powered transmitter can change the characteristics of a cable
| in reasonably short order. So buy my RG+142.
|
| Regards,
| Eric M. Jones
| www.PerihelionDesign.com
| 113 Brentwood Drive
| Southbridge MA 01550-2705
| Phone (508) 764-2072
| Email: emjones(at)charter.net
|
| "So in the ninth inning; score is tied, bases loaded; two outs; ---when
| suddenly an angel came down from Heaven and knocked the ball out of the
| park. Some say it was a miracle, but others say it was just a lucky
| ng." --Anon
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: Alex Balic <alex157(at)direcway.com>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE:Flat grounding cable
|
|
|
| Gary-
|
| I am using braided hose cover fro my ground strap- it is normally used to
| dress up radiator hoses in cars- I bought an entire "kit" to do a 350
| Chevy - cost about 25 bucks and it has an entire assortment including
about
| 6' of some heavy gauge in there for the radiator hoses- it is at least #2
| since I had to really compress it to fit into the swage connectors- it is
| made from tinned copper just like the expensive stuff from spruce- you can
| get it from any auto supply, but I ordered mine from summit racing...
|
| Alex
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
|
|
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE:Flat grounding cable
| From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
|
|
| Are you sure its tinned copper, and not stainless (or tinned
| steel)?
|
| Regards,
|
| Matt-
| N34RD
|
| >
| >
| >
| > Gary-
| >
| > I am using braided hose cover fro my ground strap- it is normally used
| > to dress up radiator hoses in cars- I bought an entire "kit" to do a 350
| > Chevy - cost about 25 bucks and it has an entire assortment including
| > about 6' of some heavy gauge in there for the radiator hoses- it is at
| > least #2 since I had to really compress it to fit into the swage
| > connectors- it is made from tinned copper just like the expensive stuff
| > from spruce- you can get it from any auto supply, but I ordered mine
| > from summit racing...
| >
| > Alex
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Diode on starter relay (solenoid)
|
|
| I have my HR II all wired and my neighbor showed me a wiring diagram of a
| starter solenoid with a diode between the S terminal and ground. I have
| owned 3 planes that didn't have this. What is the thinking behind this?
I
| also have Van's RV-8 wiring schematic that comes with the wiring kit and
it
| doesn't call out a diode. However, the diagram I saw with the diode was
| from Van's.
|
| ?????????
|
| Jim
| HR-II #153 flying soon............
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
You do get a voltage drop with the diode bridge. You can use a ammeter with
diode tester to measure the drop. It is different and could be more if you
are using the wrong terminals. I think the drip is about 1/2 amp when wired
correctly.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)smartm.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage
>
> I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with
the
> main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
> (delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
> volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
> switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
> link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only
thing
> I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
> teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
>
> Art
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Matt Dralle ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light potentiometer ? |
>
>Yesterday I took apart my old Turn & Bank Coordinator (a little sping
>connecting the gyro with the indicator had popped loose).
>
>I knew it had an "auto-pilot" sensor built into it, but I'd never used
>that nor looked at it before.
>
>What I found was a wierd part I'd not seen before:
>
>It works as a potentiometer, but I don't understand how it works. I'll try
>to describe it:
>
>Two parallel strips (probably on some base material like glass).
>One strip has wires connected at each end (0 and 10 Volts).
>The other strip just one wire (output).
>The "arm" "connecting" the two strips is a LED (mounted on the gyro) with
>no physical connection to the strips (Actually the LED is mounted inside a
>plastic tube).
>An oddity is that the output did vary even with the LED off as the gyro
>was moved. There's a note on the housing saying to only test/calibrate
>with the housing on (I suppose to remove ambient light.
>
>Anybody know what such a potentiometer is called and how it works?
>
>Photocell potentiometer?
Sure . . . there have been several variations on this theme. One of the
earliest no-friction sensors I've seen using optics was for the altitude
hold feature in an autopilot. A mirror mounted on a barograph capsule
would reflect a beam of light more or less upon two closely spaced
photocells. To hold altitude, a valve stopped off a passage to the
interior of the capsule so that it would expand as altitude increased,
contract as it decreased. Variability of the light on two photocells
was interpreted as a climb-descent signal to the pitch servo loop.
Without seeing your example in more detail, the best guess I'd offer
for it's operation is that the potentiometer element (wires attached
to both ends) is "tapped" by a light sensitive area between the two
strips (cadmium sulfide?). Light falling on the space between the two
stripes causes a strong drop in resistance at that point effectively
closing a connection between the potentiometer and the "wiper" conductor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocker Switch Problems |
Just received my engraved rocker switch operators (plastic covers) for my
illuminated Honeywell (Micro Switch) Double Pole AML34FBA4AC01 (15A
resistive @ 12v DC) panel switches. Since the switches are low on the panel,
I had the engraving done on the lower half per Aircraft Engravers
recommendation. Turns out the internal light bulb only illuminates one half
of the operator, which happens to be the top half with the switch mounted
conventionally (push top for on and bottom for off). Any suggestions?
There is a lot more to the story, so if you are interested, read on.
Aircraft Engravers sells and engraves the operators (plastic covers), but
does not sell the switches, thus refers you to a distributor. Prior to
ordering same, I obtained Honeywell's data sheet showing six terminals with
ON-ON positions, i.e. the switch could be rotated 180 degrees, placing the
light bulb on either the upper or lower face. I also received a copy of
Honeywell's technical representative's e-mail confirming the switch has 6
terminals. They have now confirmed that both pieces of information are
incorrect and in fact the switch has 4 switch terminals (2 pole single
throw) plus an independent light circuit. When I brought this to Aircraft
Engravers attention, they were dumfounded, having engraved hundreds of
operators on the lower half with no mention of my problem. They suggested I
post this message. Am I overlooking the obvious?
Options considered so far:
Engrave upper half - difficult to read upper half when switch is
in OFF
position due to location on bottom of panel.
Install switch upside down - this would work but I am afraid of
a
potential "John Denver" result and I don't think the FAA inspector would
like it.
Find another DPDT ON-ON switch with 6 terminals- Panel is cut,
final
wiring near complete (except for switches), can't find a switch the same
size.
Modify the switch to let bulb light reach the bottom half - cut
and
drilled the switch mechanism to no avail. Light won't transfer.
Use Honeywell's 3 amp switch with 6 terminals and add solid state
relays-I
would need 7 relays (out of 12) and would like to avoid the complexity.
Turn on cockpit light - Everything on panel is internally lit.
No plans
for a cockpit light other than battery backup flashlight.
I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this matter.
Thank you,
Scott Diffenbaugh RV7A IFR panel
diff(at)foothill.net
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lakemichigancollege.edu> |
| Subject: | Odd Transmission |
Hi Folks,
Haven't been on this list for a while....too busy having fun flying :)
I have a question concerning an intermittent problem I experience. For example,
a few days ago I was at 2500' making a position report while flying near a
small airport. After my transmission, one pilot said he could not understand
my report, the transmission was too garbeled and gravelly. Two other pilots
immediately chimed in and said they heard me fine. The first pilot communicated
fine with the other two pilots, and I heard all of them fine. This is not
the only time this has happened.
How is it possible for this to happen? I have a MicroAir 760, with a copper
strip dipole antenna bonded to the inner surface of the vertical stabilizer
of my GlaStar. Could it be positional? On the ground, I have someone transmit
over my radio while I walk around with a handheld. I've never been able
to pick up any transmission difference no matter where I am relative to the plane.
Any ideas on this? Thanks in advance for any help here. It's no fun
flying around wondering who is hearing you and who is not.
Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
285 hours on the Eggen-Soob GlaStar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Bob Nuckols' loadmeter/voltmeter |
Bob,
You used to have a loadmeter/voltmeter combo you were selling. Do you still offer
that product?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
Treff, Arthur wrote:
>
> I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with the
> main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
> (delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
> volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
> switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
> link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only thing
> I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
> teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
Yes. Get rid of the diode bridge and substitute a schottky power diode. The voltage
drop will be much less, on the order of 0.2V to 0.3V. That is what I did
in my RV-4.
Bob and I have argued about the efficacy of schottky vs. silicon diode bridges
several times. It seems we are never likely to be in agreement on this topic.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Light potentiometer ? |
| From: | "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Bob,
This part is apparently used in several T & B type instruments.
It is some type of photo-potentiometer. LED shines on the strip and
the output voltage is proportional to the location on the strip of the
light beam - - from one end to the other.
I have looked around trying to find a source, and have never found the
manufacturer.
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Light potentiometer ?
>
>Yesterday I took apart my old Turn & Bank Coordinator (a little sping
>connecting the gyro with the indicator had popped loose).
>
>I knew it had an "auto-pilot" sensor built into it, but I'd never used
>that nor looked at it before.
>
>What I found was a wierd part I'd not seen before:
>
>It works as a potentiometer, but I don't understand how it works. I'll
try
>to describe it:
>
>Two parallel strips (probably on some base material like glass).
>One strip has wires connected at each end (0 and 10 Volts).
>The other strip just one wire (output).
>The "arm" "connecting" the two strips is a LED (mounted on the gyro)
with
>no physical connection to the strips (Actually the LED is mounted
inside a
>plastic tube).
>An oddity is that the output did vary even with the LED off as the gyro
>was moved. There's a note on the housing saying to only test/calibrate
>with the housing on (I suppose to remove ambient light.
>
>Anybody know what such a potentiometer is called and how it works?
>
>Photocell potentiometer?
Sure . . . there have been several variations on this theme. One of
the
earliest no-friction sensors I've seen using optics was for the
altitude
hold feature in an autopilot. A mirror mounted on a barograph capsule
would reflect a beam of light more or less upon two closely spaced
photocells. To hold altitude, a valve stopped off a passage to the
interior of the capsule so that it would expand as altitude increased,
contract as it decreased. Variability of the light on two photocells
was interpreted as a climb-descent signal to the pitch servo loop.
Without seeing your example in more detail, the best guess I'd offer
for it's operation is that the potentiometer element (wires attached
to both ends) is "tapped" by a light sensitive area between the two
strips (cadmium sulfide?). Light falling on the space between the two
stripes causes a strong drop in resistance at that point effectively
closing a connection between the potentiometer and the "wiper"
conductor.
Bob . . .
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Stress to alterantors while cranking? |
<5.0.0.25.2.20040531152110.01116950(at)pop.central.cox.net>
>Thank you for your reply. The concern was based more about what appears
>to be almost a "dead short" across the diodes because of the large current
>draw from the starter and also the torque load on the alternator coupling
>and bearings during engine start with the fields on. It would seem that
>the "dead short" across the alternator output would have some impact on
>alternator diode life from this repeated stress.
The 'dead short' doesn't exist. While the starter is cranking, battery
voltage generally falls to about 2/3 the battery's rated voltage. During this
same period of time, the alternator's field is supplied by the very same
voltage and being rotated by starter at 1/10th cruise rpm . . . i.e.,
output from
alternator is MUCH less than 2/3 battery voltage. So, while one might
measure a volt or so output from the alternator's b-lead terminal while
cranking, you'd have to DISCONNECT the b-lead to make the measurement.
The battery is holding the terminal voltage up at a much higher magnitude
than would exist if the b-lead were disconnected and observed as an
independent power source. Bottom line is that except for a bit of field
current,
there is NO exchange of energy between the alternator and the rest of
the system while the starter motor is working. The hypothesized "stress"
is a complete myth. Anyone who suggests differently simply doesn't
understand how components of the system work.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower |
voltage
Brian,
Please provide some info on where to purchase the Schottky power diode. I already
have the B&C diode bridge and would like to experience the difference.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage
Treff, Arthur wrote:
>
> I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with the
> main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
> (delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
> volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
> switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
> link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only thing
> I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
> teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
Yes. Get rid of the diode bridge and substitute a schottky power diode. The voltage
drop will be much less, on the order of 0.2V to 0.3V. That is what I did
in my RV-4.
Bob and I have argued about the efficacy of schottky vs. silicon diode bridges
several times. It seems we are never likely to be in agreement on this topic.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocker Switch Problems |
>
>
>Just received my engraved rocker switch operators (plastic covers) for my
>illuminated Honeywell (Micro Switch) Double Pole AML34FBA4AC01 (15A
>resistive @ 12v DC) panel switches. Since the switches are low on the panel,
>I had the engraving done on the lower half per Aircraft Engravers
>recommendation. Turns out the internal light bulb only illuminates one half
>of the operator, which happens to be the top half with the switch mounted
>conventionally (push top for on and bottom for off). Any suggestions?
>
> There is a lot more to the story, so if you are interested, read on.
>Aircraft Engravers sells and engraves the operators (plastic covers), but
>does not sell the switches, thus refers you to a distributor. Prior to
>ordering same, I obtained Honeywell's data sheet showing six terminals with
>ON-ON positions, i.e. the switch could be rotated 180 degrees, placing the
>light bulb on either the upper or lower face.
Which data sheet are you looking at? The Honeywell website data
sheet I found is
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/manual/catalog/c30035.pdf
If you dissect the part number cited above we deduce as follows:
AML34F = rectangular 1-lamp circuit
B = black
A = no lamp installed
4 = .187" solder/fast-on terminal
AC = two form A switches
01 = operating action is ON-OFF (maintained in both states)
If the switch has six terminals, then perhaps two of them are not
used since the "A" value for lamp suggests there is no lamp installed
in the parts you have. You need a "C" part for 12v lamp, or "E" for
a 28v lamp.
> I also received a copy of
>Honeywell's technical representative's e-mail confirming the switch has 6
>terminals. They have now confirmed that both pieces of information are
>incorrect and in fact the switch has 4 switch terminals (2 pole single
>throw) plus an independent light circuit.
That jives with the data sheet I've cited above.
> When I brought this to Aircraft
>Engravers attention, they were dumfounded, having engraved hundreds of
>operators on the lower half with no mention of my problem. They suggested I
>post this message. Am I overlooking the obvious?
The data sheet does indicate that only the upper half of the switch
is illuminated.
> Options considered so far:
> Engrave upper half - difficult to read upper half when
> switch is in OFF
>position due to location on bottom of panel.
>
> Install switch upside down - this would work but I am
> afraid of a
>potential "John Denver" result and I don't think the FAA inspector would
>like it.
More importantly, would YOU like it? How hard is it to get one
of these switches apart? You might be able to modify them to
put the lamp on the other side . . . better yet, while you're
hammer-n-saw'n on them, change over to white or other color
leds for illumination.
> Find another DPDT ON-ON switch with 6 terminals- Panel is
> cut, final
>wiring near complete (except for switches), can't find a switch the same
>size.
>
> Modify the switch to let bulb light reach the bottom half
> - cut and
>drilled the switch mechanism to no avail. Light won't transfer.
Hmmm . . . that answers that question . . .
> Use Honeywell's 3 amp switch with 6 terminals and add
> solid state relays-I
>would need 7 relays (out of 12) and would like to avoid the complexity.
>
> Turn on cockpit light - Everything on panel is internally
> lit. No plans
>for a cockpit light other than battery backup flashlight.
You could go with non-illuminated switches and illuminate a reverse
engraved overlay panel. Leds could be used to light this up as well.
I saw some Glasair panels years ago that used the TP series rockers
from Honeywell. These feature separate operators that you can buy
in a translucent white, engrave front faces, and back-light with
LEDs or other small lamps. Best yet, the TP series rocker switches
are available in all the special functions including progressive
transfer. See:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/pdbdownload/images/12pa5.series.chart.1.pdf
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/printfriendly.asp?FAM=tr&PN=102TP81-10
>I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this matter.
This is an excellent illustration that supports Nuckolls' love affair
with toggle switches. There are REALLY great looking products
out there that will certainly dress up your panel . . . but
at the end of the day, the TASK of opening one set of contacts in
favor of closing another set of contacts to make something electrical
happen is the same whether it's a $5 toggle switch or a $50, back-lighted
rocker.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frequent flyer <jdhcv(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob,
I posted a question about keying the toggles while you
were away and got some good suggestions but thought
I'd post to you again. I have the switches but no
plates. Don't need the On/Off plates but would like to
keep the switches from rotating. Thought I had
remembered a post you made some time ago abut doing
this but couldn't find it. Any thoughts?
Jack
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> Please provide some info on where to purchase the Schottky power
> diode. I already have the B&C diode bridge and would like to
> experience the difference.
At the time I was living in Sacramento and drove to Fry's where I purchased one
off-the-shelf. Mouser and other on-line parts places have them. See:
http://www.mouser.com
I used an NTE6083, a 10A diode in a TO-220 case. Mouser's quantity 1 price is
$1.60. My [essential|endurance|excreting|eradicating] buss drew about 3A normally
and about 6A with the transmitter keyed so that 10A diode was very happy.
You need to know the max current draw and then scale your diode accordingly.
Here is a list of the NTE devices that might be useful:
part # Amps case style
----------------------------------
6080 10A TO-220
6083 10A TO-220
6085 7.5A (dual) TO-220
6087 30A TO-220
6088 10A (dual) TO-220
6090 15A (dual) TO-218
6092 20A (dual) TO-247
6094 60A DO-5 (stud mount)
The NTE6087 at $5.85 seems to be the most attractive/useful. It is spec'd to have
a maximum forward voltage drop at 30A of 0.82V at +25C.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
>Please provide some info on where to purchase the Schottky power diode.
>I already have the B&C diode bridge and would like to experience the
difference.
Regular silicon rectifier P-N diodes have been used for 40 years to allow
current to flow in only one direction. All diodes have some voltage loss
when current flows through them. This is called the voltage drop or forward
voltage (Vf). This is important because the heat generated (W=wasted power)
when current flows through them is Vf X I. The lost voltage is subtracted
from what you started with (Vbus=Vbatt-Vforward).
So a P-N diode with a voltage drop of 1.0 Volts (typical of the P-N diodes),
and 10 amperes of current will waste 11 Watts of power. This wasted power
demands more heatsink and by definition lowers efficiency. A typical
Schottky at 10 amps has a forward voltage of 0.34 Volts and thus wastes only
3.4 Watts or so. (Vf is always a function of current)
Schottky diodes were originally developed for their high frequency uses.
Because of their construction they are not available with simultaneously low
Vf AND high reverse voltage, so most Schottky diodes are low voltage
devices. If your battery voltage was 100 volts, you wouldn't need a Schottky
anyway.
But they are absolutely great at typical battery voltage rectification and
bus
isolation. Battery powered devices use Schottkys to lower energy waste.
Bob N. uses a diode to act as a reverse-flow preventer. His use of one leg
of a Radio Shack diode bridge is seen by some of his fans as cost effective
but perhaps
inelegant. We agree to disagree on this subject.
I sell lots of the Schottkys packaged in mountable modules "PowerSchottkys".
Inside
the module is an IR 100BGQ-030 which is a real beast of a diode. I put
studs on it
and solder it to a heat spreader and pot it in epoxy.
Check my website. www.PerihelionDesign.com
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klehman(at)albedo.net |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower voltage |
Art
With a 1.1 volt drop I am wondering if you really do have it wired
incorrectly such that the current is going through 2 diodes and doubling
the voltage drop. Are the terminals marked at all? If you have the load
(ess bus) connected to the + pin and the supply connected to the - pin
for instance then it would double the drop. If your voltmeter happens to
have a diode test setting, you would be able to see this.
If the pins are marked I'd suggest connecting the load to the + pin and
the supply to one of the AC pins. If it works, great. If it doesn't work
then switch the supply to the other AC pin and all should be fine.
Ken
Treff, Arthur wrote:
>
> I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with the
> main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
> (delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
> volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
> switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
> link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only thing
> I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
> teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
>
> Art
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> voltage |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower |
voltage
voltage
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s401-25.jpg for details on
wiring a bridge-rectifier as an e-bus normal feed diode.
Bob . . .
>
>Art
>
>With a 1.1 volt drop I am wondering if you really do have it wired
>incorrectly such that the current is going through 2 diodes and doubling
>the voltage drop. Are the terminals marked at all? If you have the load
>(ess bus) connected to the + pin and the supply connected to the - pin
>for instance then it would double the drop. If your voltmeter happens to
>have a diode test setting, you would be able to see this.
>
>If the pins are marked I'd suggest connecting the load to the + pin and
>the supply to one of the AC pins. If it works, great. If it doesn't work
>then switch the supply to the other AC pin and all should be fine.
>
>Ken
>Treff, Arthur wrote:
>
> >
> > I've wired my RV-8 per appx Z-13 "All electric plane on a budget", with the
> > main bus feeding the Ess bus thru the B&C diode. With a 13.8 power supply
> > (delivers up to 23 amps, constant voltage) on the main bus, I show 12.7
> > volts on the main bus fuse outputs. When I switch off the main bus, and
> > switch on the Ess bus, power is now thru the Battery bus thru a fuseable
> > link and switch. The ess bus fuse outputs show 13.8 volts. The only thing
> > I can think of is I must be using the wrong poles of the diode. IT has 4
> > teminals, and I thought I had the two correct ones. Any thoughts?
> >
> > Art
>
>
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
>
>Bob,
>
>I posted a question about keying the toggles while you
>were away and got some good suggestions but thought
>I'd post to you again. I have the switches but no
>plates. Don't need the On/Off plates but would like to
>keep the switches from rotating. Thought I had
>remembered a post you made some time ago abut doing
>this but couldn't find it. Any thoughts?
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s700dwg.jpg
Switches sold by B&C come with anti-rotation washers.
Nearly all switches have a groove machined into the
threaded bushing to accept the tab of an anti rotation
washer so even if your switches came without them, you can
purchase washers only from B&C.
These can be used on the back side of the panel to
supply the anti-rotation feature while leaving the front
of the panel smooth.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower |
voltage
Eric M. Jones wrote:
> Check my website. www.PerihelionDesign.com
It doesn't resolve. Did you typo this?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com> |
lowervoltage
| Subject: | Z-13 power distribution: main bus |
lowervoltage
Hmm. Bob, that picture shows a different connection method than the one I
got from B&C with my Diode. It showed the two terminals adjacent to the E
bus tab as being connected together and terminating at the Main Bus. Which
is "right" and/or does it make a difference if wired the B&C way?
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 power distribution: main bus
lowervoltage
voltage
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s401-25.jpg for details on
wiring a bridge-rectifier as an e-bus normal feed diode.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> lowervoltage |
| Subject: | Z-13 power distribution: main bus |
lowervoltage
lowervoltage
>
>
>Hmm. Bob, that picture shows a different connection method than the one I
>got from B&C with my Diode. It showed the two terminals adjacent to the E
>bus tab as being connected together and terminating at the Main Bus. Which
>is "right" and/or does it make a difference if wired the B&C way?
Without seeing exactly what B&C supplied, I'll not venture
a guess . . . given that there are 4 diodes in the assembly then
there are 4 different ways one could wire it and access any
one diode . . .
The way I've illustrated in the photo is ONE good way.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lowervoltage |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III lowervoltage wrote:
> Without seeing exactly what B&C supplied, I'll not venture
> a guess . . . given that there are 4 diodes in the assembly then
> there are 4 different ways one could wire it and access any
> one diode . . .
>
> The way I've illustrated in the photo is ONE good way.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
The method illustrated by B&C parallels two of the diodes rather than
using just one.
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator Control Z-14 |
Bob:
Z-12 (single battery - dual alternator) depicts an alternator control switch
for the aux alternator. The primary alternator however appears to be
controlled by the battery master switch without an independent field
control. Is there an operational logic for this configuration?
I am planning the Z-12 configuratin for an RV-10 which has the battery
mounted aft of the passenger compartment. I know the ideal battery ground
is common to the firewall penetration - engine ground - ground bus
connection. With the all metal airframe would you still recommend a rather
long fat wire ground connector to the firewall or a local battery ground to
the airframe at the aft battery location?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
RV10 110DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> lowervoltage |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus |
lowervoltage
lowervoltage
>
>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III lowervoltage wrote:
>
> > Without seeing exactly what B&C supplied, I'll not venture
> > a guess . . . given that there are 4 diodes in the assembly then
> > there are 4 different ways one could wire it and access any
> > one diode . . .
> >
> > The way I've illustrated in the photo is ONE good way.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>The method illustrated by B&C parallels two of the diodes rather than
>using just one.
that works too . . .
If he's getting 1.1 volts of drop across this arrangement,
I'm wondering about the "diodes" in the part. This is too
much drop.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lowervoltage |
>
>
>>The method illustrated by B&C parallels two of the diodes rather than
>>using just one.
>>
>>
>
> that works too . . .
>
> If he's getting 1.1 volts of drop across this arrangement,
> I'm wondering about the "diodes" in the part. This is too
> much drop.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Almost as though he's got two diodes in series, but not quite enough
drop for that. Something does seem amiss
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Franz Fux" <franz(at)lastfrontierheli.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Aero Electric-List: permanent magnet alternator |
question
Hi Bob,
I am building a RV7 and would like to use you Z11 as the basis for my
wiring. I just received my firewall forward kit and with it a Nippondenso,
60amp internally regulated alternator. As I am a total novice when it comes
to wiring, even thought I have the connection, I am wondering if I should
get a B&C alternator with an voltage regulator or would I be able with my
limited knowledge to adapt the unit that I have and still have a good
system,
Thanks for your help,
Franz Fux
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lowervoltage |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> If he's getting 1.1 volts of drop across this arrangement,
> I'm wondering about the "diodes" in the part. This is too
> much drop.
That was what I thought too. I tried several silicon power bridge rectifier modules
and found them all to be in that range. That is why I switched to Schottky
diodes. I am not the least bit sorry I did and will not use silicon rectifiers
in this application any more. Even the marine and RV community is abandoning
silicon rectifiers in favor of Schottky rectifiers for the battery isolation
application.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Z-13 power distribution: main bus lowervoltage |
Brain,
I noticed in a previous post that there was some debate about using Schottky
diodes as opposed to silicone. I have been racking my brain trying to figure
out what the argument would be about?
Regards,
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 power distribution: main bus
lowervoltage
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> If he's getting 1.1 volts of drop across this arrangement,
> I'm wondering about the "diodes" in the part. This is too
> much drop.
That was what I thought too. I tried several silicon power bridge rectifier
modules and found them all to be in that range. That is why I switched to
Schottky diodes. I am not the least bit sorry I did and will not use
silicon rectifiers in this application any more. Even the marine and RV
community is abandoning silicon rectifiers in favor of Schottky rectifiers
for the battery isolation application.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: PS Engineering pin contacts needed |
Hello, I need the following for a PS Engineering 7000 audio panel:
Plastic connector "shells" that holds the metal contact pins and the metal
contact pins (are these generic, or manufacturer only), if manufacturer only I
can call PSE, if generic I would appreciate a part number and a good place to
order from
Also, what insertion and extraction tool and crimper is appropriate for these
contacts.
Thank you, Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Odd Transmission |
posted by: "William Yamokoski"
I have a question concerning an intermittent problem I experience. ...a few days
ago I was at 2500' making a position report while flying near a
small airport. After my transmission, one pilot said he could not understand
my report, the transmission was too garbeled and gravelly. Two other pilots
immediately chimed in and said they heard me fine. .... I have a MicroAir
760, with a copper strip dipole antenna bonded to the inner surface of the vertical
stabilizer of my GlaStar. Could it be positional? .... Any ideas on
this?
Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
Bill
I have a Glastar with a bonded antenna in the vert fin and a Microair 760. I have
had this experience once, two months ago at Sunriver, Oregon. Five miles
out and in the pattern the FBO radio was garbled, all other aircraft within range
(in the pattern and up to 50 miles or more) were perfectly intelligible.
On the ground the FBO still sounded like an old, cheap, school intercom system,
very loud and very garbled. This was right to the point of being 90% unintelligible.
I talked to the FBO operator about it and he said I was not garbled
and when he checked with other aircraft HE was reported as perfectly clear.
When I left I checked again and the FBO was still garbled on the ramp and in the
pattern. All other transmissions that day were clear and ever since then too.
It was not positional. I thought it might be the mountainous area Sunriver
is in but other area towers and unicoms were clear. The only other guess was
that I might have had the radio turned up too loud for a base station that
close. I'll be going back this summer and checking it out but I haven't lost
any sleep over it. I'm not happy to hear this could be worse. If it gets worse
I'll try another antenna.
Michael Harfst N9TZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lowervoltage |
Trampas wrote:
>
> Brain,
Thanks but actually my name is Brian. ;-)
> I noticed in a previous post that there was some debate about using Schottky
> diodes as opposed to silicone. I have been racking my brain trying to figure
> out what the argument would be about?
People frequently make the mistake of writing "silicone" when they mean "silicon".
Just remember that silicone is for breast augmentation. I think about "silly
cones" and therefore have no trouble remembering which is which. :-)
Here are the issues. The physics of standard silicon diodes gives them a forward
voltage drop starting at about 0.7 VDC but it can be higher. The physics of
the Schottky diode (which is also made of of silicon but made in a different
way) is less. As a result it dissipates less power and your essential buss receives
a higher voltage, much closer to the VR setpoint or to the main battery
voltage than with a silicon power rectifier such as in the large bridge rectifier
modules that Bob favors.
The silicon power rectifier can withstand a higher reverse voltage than can the
Schottky power rectifier but that is not an issue in this application as it is
not being called upon to rectify AC to DC.
Schottky power rectifiers are more expensive than an equivalent silicon power rectifier
but the proliferation of low-voltage computer technology and switching
power supplies have driven the market to require large quantities of Schottky
power rectifiers which has driven the price down to where there is almost no
obvious price advantage for silicon power rectifiers.
To be honest with you, this is more of an argument akin to "how many angels can
dance on the head of a pin." It doesn't matter that much unless you have a poorly-designed
piece of equipment that quits working at a higher voltage than
is reasonable. I have seen some radios that will not work at 10V. A lead-acid
battery is "dead" when it gets to somewhere between 10.5V and 11V. If you have
a Schottky diode your equipment might still be working when the battery is
almost dead and might not if you choose to use a silicon power rectifier.
But if you are dependent on your radio still working at that point, you probably
have worse problems.
But I am a purist. The Schottky diode is technically a better solution so that
is what I prefer. But the advantage is pretty small and probably not worth arguing
about.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PS Engineering pin contacts needed |
Hi Skip:
Go to www.steinair.com and you will find what you need. Stein has the
plastic shells of which you speak as well as an extraction tool ( you just
shove the pins in to insert them). I *think* he has the crimp tool for the
pins. If not B&C will have them.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P (reserved)
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: <CardinalNSB(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: PS Engineering pin contacts needed
>
> Hello, I need the following for a PS Engineering 7000 audio panel:
>
> Plastic connector "shells" that holds the metal contact pins and the metal
> contact pins (are these generic, or manufacturer only), if manufacturer
only I
> can call PSE, if generic I would appreciate a part number and a good place
to
> order from
>
> Also, what insertion and extraction tool and crimper is appropriate for
these
> contacts.
>
> Thank you, Skip Simpson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Control Z-14 |
>
>Bob:
>
>Z-12 (single battery - dual alternator) depicts an alternator control switch
>for the aux alternator. The primary alternator however appears to be
>controlled by the battery master switch without an independent field
>control. Is there an operational logic for this configuration?
the recommended switch for the main alternator is an S700-2-10
progressive transfer device. Wired as shown, you get three positions:
OFF - BAT - BAT+ALT
This mimics the functionality of the infamous split-rocker master
switch in a much less expensive device that looks like it goes
with the rest of the ship's switches.
Figure Z-12 is not recommended for new design. It's shown as a
reasonable way to ADD an aux alternator to an existing system
such as one might find in a certified ship. If you have a vacuum pump
pad open, Figure Z-13 is less expensive and lighter. It provides
dual alternator reliability that's adequate for probably 95% of
the airplanes being built in peoples basements and garages. If your
endurance loads dictate a need for more capacity in the aux alternator
then perhaps Z-14 is more appropriate. Have you done a load analysis
to size your alternators?
>I am planning the Z-12 configuratin for an RV-10 which has the battery
>mounted aft of the passenger compartment. I know the ideal battery ground
>is common to the firewall penetration - engine ground - ground bus
>connection. With the all metal airframe would you still recommend a rather
>long fat wire ground connector to the firewall or a local battery ground to
>the airframe at the aft battery location?
If it were my airplane, I'd run the battery (-) to the firewall
ground stud. However, hundreds of thousands of certified ships
have used airframe grounds for battery (-) connections. Give it
a try. If you don't have any noteworthy noise problems,
then it was a reasonable decision.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
RAW: Message text disguised using base64 encoding
Mdharfst(at)cs.com wrote:
>
> posted by: "William Yamokoski" I have a question concerning an
> intermittent problem I experience. ...a few days ago I was at 2500'
> making a position report while flying near a small airport. After
> my transmission, one pilot said he could not understand my report,
> the transmission was too garbeled and gravelly. Two other pilots
> immediately chimed in and said they heard me fine. .... I have a
> MicroAir 760, with a copper strip dipole antenna bonded to the inner
> surface of the vertical stabilizer of my GlaStar. Could it be
> positional? .... Any ideas on this? Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
>
> Bill I have a Glastar with a bonded antenna in the vert fin and a
> Microair 760. I have had this experience once,
I have experienced this problem with the Microair 760. Seems that when the signal
is too strong, the receiver overloads and produces unusable audio. We ran
into the problem with aircraft flying formation. The radio works fine when the
aircraft are a 1/2 mile apart or so but becomes unsable after the join up.
Since it didn't affect all Microair radios I suspect they have a mod or upgrade
to solve the problem. Check with the manufacturer.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)smartm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 power distribution: main bus lower |
voltage
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s401-25.jpg for details on
wiring a bridge-rectifier as an e-bus normal feed diode.
Bob . . .
Bob,
Thanks, the photo confirms that I have hooked it up the way you suggested.
Any other ideas on the voltage drop?
Art
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Comm receiver overload |
>
>Mdharfst(at)cs.com wrote:
> >
> > posted by: "William Yamokoski" I have a question concerning an
> > intermittent problem I experience. ...a few days ago I was at 2500'
> > making a position report while flying near a small airport. After
> > my transmission, one pilot said he could not understand my report,
> > the transmission was too garbeled and gravelly. Two other pilots
> > immediately chimed in and said they heard me fine. .... I have a
> > MicroAir 760, with a copper strip dipole antenna bonded to the inner
> > surface of the vertical stabilizer of my GlaStar. Could it be
> > positional? .... Any ideas on this? Bill Yamokoski, N4970Y
> >
> > Bill I have a Glastar with a bonded antenna in the vert fin and a
> > Microair 760. I have had this experience once,
>
>I have experienced this problem with the Microair 760. Seems that when
>the signal is too strong, the receiver overloads and produces unusable
>audio. We ran into the problem with aircraft flying formation. The radio
>works fine when the aircraft are a 1/2 mile apart or so but becomes
>unsable after the join up. Since it didn't affect all Microair radios I
>suspect they have a mod or upgrade to solve the problem. Check with the
>manufacturer.
If the problem was resistance to receiver overload, then
there's nothing you can do to your radio to make the problem
go away for the situation you cited. The difficultly lies
with the receiver in the airplane that couldn't hear you
well. If you get ANY reports of good intelligibility from
other airplanes, then the fact that one or more individuals
can't hear you well is not your problem.
Now, if YOU have problems hearing closely positioned aircraft
on YOUR receiver . . . and the problem goes away when distance
between you increases, then there MIGHT be something that can
be done to help your receiver.
I've built attenuators for temporary installation in the antenna
line for airplanes that were going to spend a lot of time flying
in formation. For them most part, this is a transient condition
that shouldn't be much cause for concern. In the case you've
cited, there is nothing you should be expected to do to alleviate
and overload problem in the other airplane's receiver.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Feedback for Bob - Roll your own crowbar module |
| From: | Ralph Ketter <arizonahikers(at)juno.com> |
Bob,
Now that your back maybe you can take a look at the readings I took for
troubleshooting my OV crowbar module.
Thanks,
Ralph
************************
writes:
Original posting 4/12/04
>>
>>I build my own OV crowbar module and it functions correctly except that
>>it operated in the 10-11 volt range. I triple checked the components
and
>>wiring. I tested the 1N4742A diode and it regulates at 12V. I changed
>>the 1.62K ohm resistor specified for a 14 volt system to 6.04K and the
>>circuit operates in the correct voltage range of 15.5-17 volts. Has
>>anyone else found this?
***************************
> With the 1.62K resistor in place, adjust the potentiometer to
> approximately mid range. Adjust the power supply to a point just
> below the trip point and then measure voltage at (1) + end of
> capacitor and (2) junction of zener diode and the 392 ohm
> resistor and tell us what you get.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
Thanks for the reply Bob,
Sorry I took so long with a response to your suggestion.
I did as you suggested. The pot is set to mid range for all of the
following voltage readings.
Designating Point (1) as the + end of the capacitor, and Point (2) as the
junction of the 392 ohm resistor, and GND as the negative lead, I got the
following readings:
1.62 K resistor in place for 14 volt operation. - Trip point = 10.4
volts.
Point (1) - Point (2) +0.436 volts
GND - Point (2) +7.6 volts
6.04K resistor replacing the 1.62K one. - Trip point = 16.22 volts.
Point (1) - Point (2) +0.538 volts
GND - Point (2) +7.36 volts
These readings made me realize the circuit was not letting the zener
regulate at 12 volts so I did the following checks.
First I disconnected the SCR trigger lead to prevent it from firing.
I reinstalled the original 1.62K resistor.
Measuring the Zener voltage from GND to Point (2):
As I increased the input voltage the voltage across the zener increases
linearly to about 8.25 volts and then starts to decrease. The input
voltage is about 9 volts when this knee occurs.
I then disconnected the 1N4148 diode and repeated the above test with
basically the same results.
With the 1N4148 diode still disconnected, I also disconnected the NPN
collector and PNP base (they remained connected together) from the Point
(2) junction. Now only the Zener and 392 ohm resistor are in series
across the supply. Again measuring the Zener voltage from GND to Point
(2):
The zener voltage tracks the input voltage up to about 11.3 volts at
which point the zener begins to regulate.
With the two transistors still disconnected, I reconnected the 1N4148
diode.
Now the voltage across the zener increases linearly up to 9 volts (input
voltage is 9.35) when suddenly the voltage drops to 1.87 volts.
When I made the statement in my original email that the zener regulates
at 12 volts, I neglected to say that I tested it out of the circuit.
Ralph Ketter
RV-6
Marysville, KS
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James J. Varney" <jvarney(at)vfpi.com> |
| Subject: | KT-71 Transponder |
Hey all.
I picked up a KT-71 transponder with no rack/connector. From what I can
figure out from info available, this transponder will fit in the rack
and connector for the KT-76a so I found one and bought it. I looked at
the connector pin-out diagrams on Bob's site and the KT-71 is not
listed. Does anybody happen to know if the KT-76a pin-outs are the same?
or, does anybody happen to have the correct wiring diagram for this
setup? It will be connected to an ACK-A30 Encoder.
I thank you in advance.
James Varney
RV-7a Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Wiegenstein" <n727jw(at)hellerwiegenstein.com> |
| Subject: | ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
I've got an RV-6 (almost done) with an ICOM A200 comm radio, Flightcom 403
intercom, and the Van's wiring harness for the Flightcom. I've wired it all
up per the Van's drawing and the ICOM schematic. Functional test has
checked out OK for passenger and pilot headsets (receive), intercom
functions, etc., and I can receive comm transmissions just fine. Problem
is I don't seem to be able to transmit. When I use the PTT switch the ICOM
shows "TX" on the display, but I don't hear myself in the headphones when I
talk, and cannot get a response from tower. I tried placing multimeter
leads across the antenna terminal (its a generic belly mount bent whip) and
to ground, and when the PTT is pressed and "TX" shows on the ICOM, I show a
jump to about 1.5V across the antenna. Checking continuity of wiring, etc.
all seems to be OK. Any ideas? I'd be happy to call on my nickel and talk
with anyone who has this setup, or similar, or who might have dealt with a
similar problem. TIA
John Wiegenstein
Hansville, WA
RV-6 N727JW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
John Wiegenstein wrote:
> functions, etc., and I can receive comm transmissions just fine. Problem
> is I don't seem to be able to transmit. When I use the PTT switch the ICOM
> shows "TX" on the display, but I don't hear myself in the headphones when I
> talk, and cannot get a response from tower.
The fact you see the TX indicates that the PTT circuit is functioning. To hear
yourself you need to adjust the sidetone level in the radio and adjust the mic
level. You are probably just sending a carrier with no modulation.
> I tried placing multimeter
> leads across the antenna terminal (its a generic belly mount bent whip) and
> to ground, and when the PTT is pressed and "TX" shows on the ICOM, I show a
> jump to about 1.5V across the antenna.
DO NOT DO THAT! You cannot check transmitter power output with a multimeter.
In fact, you can damage your transmitter and multimeter doing that. I suspect
that the Icom has a high-VSWR protection circuit and will save itself but that
is not true for all radios.
Here is how I would troubleshoot the problem:
1. Disconnect the coax at the antenna and attach it to a dummy-load/wattmeter.
The wattmeter will show the transmit power output and the dummy load will absorb
the power so that you don't radiate and cause interference.
2. Tune your transmitter to another frequency, one that is not used locally.
DO NOT tune up on the tower or ground control frequencies.
3. Key the tranmitter. The wattmeter should indicate something on the order of
5-10 watts.
4. Use another radio (handheld) to tune in the same frequency as your transmitter.
Now you should be able to hear your signal.
5. As you key your transmitter you will open the squelch on the other radio.
When you talk you should be able to hear yourself on the other radio. If not,
increase the mic gain on your transmitter. Do NOT turn it up too much. You
want to turn it up just enough so that your signal sounds clean and clear, just
about as loud as the tower sounds in the other radio. Use the lowest mic gain
setting that produces acceptable results.
6. After you set the mic gain set the sidetone level so that your own speech in
your headphones is about the same volume as the tower when they talk to you.
If you can lay hands on a service monitor (a very expensive piece of test gear
usually made by a company named IFR) you speed the process. The service monitor
has the wattmeter and dummy load built in as well as a receiver to let you
monitor your transmitter directly. In that case set the service monitor to the
AM mode, tune in your transmitter's frequency, and adjust your transmitter's
mic gain to provide about 90% modulation on peaks. Most new radios have protection
against overmodulation and will not let you get above about 90% modulation
but it pays to be careful.
Most people have the tendency to set the mic gain too high. It should be set just
high enough to make your signal sound as loud as the tower.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
>Here is how I would troubleshoot the problem......
Brian,
I just wanted you to know that I happen to have the exact same radio
(different intercom), and the exact same problem. I was planning to try and
fix it today and didn't know where to start.
Talk about timely information!
Thanks.
John Slade
Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
http://canardaviation.com/cozy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
While I have you're learned ear....
My transponder recently came back from Narco where it was fixed, tested and
upgraded.
The Tower isn't getting a transponder signal. There IS power to the
transponder. Is there anything I can check before calling in the $75/hr guy?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
In a message dated 6/3/2004 9:00:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sladerj(at)bellsouth.net
writes:
> While I have you're learned ear....
>
> My transponder recently came back from Narco where it was fixed, tested and
> upgraded.
> The Tower isn't getting a transponder signal. There IS power to the
> transponder. Is there anything I can check before calling
> in the $75/hr guy?
>
> John Slade
>
>
> _-
Antenna connections!
I paid $250 to Garmin for a bench check of an inop txponder just out of warranty,
only to be told it was 100% operational. Turns out the center conductor had
pulled out of a connector in the antenna feedline run to the wheel pant, where
I had "hidden" the antenna. 100% my fault, for not providing enough slack in
the line to allow for movement, but a very expensive lesson!
My belly-mounted xpdr antenna will often get enough oil/grime on it to make it
unusable. Wiping it off restores normal operation.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Digital Music in the Cockpit |
I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for digital
music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player and what, if any,
problems you encountered connecting this device up to your intercom.
I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I assume that
I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this jack. Is that correct?
I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.
Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
Randy
F1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
John Slade wrote:
>
>>Here is how I would troubleshoot the problem......
>
>
> Brian,
> I just wanted you to know that I happen to have the exact same radio
> (different intercom), and the exact same problem. I was planning to try and
> fix it today and didn't know where to start.
> Talk about timely information!
I am very happy to hear that my information is useful. Thank you.
Good luck and I hope the procedure I outlined solves your problem.
As an aside, if you are looking for radio troubleshooting tools, check the ham
radio catalogs. Radio shack has a VSWR-meter/wattmeter available via the web
or special order in the stores. They also sell a dummy load. This is the kind
of thing that an EAA chapter should have because darned near every airplane
being built will have radios in it and these will need testing.
Here are the test setups:
.
| <-Antenna
|
[radio]---------[SWR-bridge]--'
[radio]----------[wattmeter]--[dummy-load]
Note that most SWR bridges are now wattmeters so you just need two devices, the
SWR-bridge/wattmeter and a dummy load.
Test with the dummy load first because that will verify that the proper operation
of the radio and the coax. Testing with the SWR-bridge connected to the antenna
tests the whole system. Remember, many radios have a protection circuit
that will shut down the transmitter if the coax and/or antenna are not working
properly. This can cause you to think that the radio is broken. The dummy
load looks to the radio like a perfect antenna and allows the radio to output
full power even if the antenna or antenna installation is faulty. If it works
into the dummy load but doesn't work into the antenna, you need to troubleshoot
the antenna, not the radio.
The SWR bridge will tell you if the radio, coax, and antenna are doing their jobs.
SWR should be less than about 2:1. If it is, the antenna is working properly.
One more thing: put a break in your coax under the panel where you can get at it.
This will let you test the radios independently of the antenna. Do something
like this:
.
| <-antenna
|
[radio]------=[] == []=-------'
/
coax | | \BNC male
| \
| BNC female/female barrel connector
\
BNC male connector
Do this for the antenna leads of all your comm and nav radios. This will allow
you to attach test equipment without having to tear your airplane apart. Be
sure to make the loop of coax from the radio to the first BNC connector long enough
that you can comfortably attach the test equipment where you can see or
or can attach another cable to it for testing.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
> Very frustrating to have these little bugs when its so close to
> being ready to fly :-((
Even more frustrating when it's already flying. :)
I monitor this list, but forgot to make a first flight announcement on it
for those who don't follow the canard forums, so in case anyone's
interested, belatedly:
I'm pleased to announce that Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM made it's first
flight on April 9th, 2004. A detailed write-up and pictures can be found at
http://canardaviation.com/cozy
My thanks to Bob and everyone on this list who helped me with the electrical
system.
The plane now has 3 hrs on it and I'm gradually working my way through the
bugs.
Regards,
John Slade
Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
http://canardaviation.com/cozy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Digital Music in the Cockpit |
Not really what you asked for, but I've nixed the MP3 idea, and will someday
go with an XM radio. I decided MP3 downloading/ripping/burning/etc was too
much hassle. Spontanious selection of news or talk or rock or classical is
much better, for me.
I've wired my plane for music in, but haven't commited to a source yet.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: F1Rocket(at)comcast.net [mailto:F1Rocket(at)comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:04 AM
> To: Aeroelectric List
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digital Music in the Cockpit
>
>
>
> I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a
> source for digital music. I'm interested in what others are
> using as a MP3 player and what, if any, problems you
> encountered connecting this device up to your intercom.
>
> I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music
> jack. I assume that I plug the headphone output from the MP3
> player into this jack. Is that correct? I'm not sure if the
> MP3 players have a music out jack.
>
> Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
F1Rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I
> assume that I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this
> jack. Is that correct? I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music
> out jack.
I have stereo music inputs in all my airplanes. I have used portable cassette,
CD, and MD players by plugging them in as you have described. Plug the headphone
output from the player into the music input of the audio panel.
I now have an Apple iPod. This is the most fantastic device for playing music
in the cockpit I have ever found. My entire record and CD collection fits on
the thing with plenty of room left over for more music in the future. I don't
need to fumble around with cassettes, CDs, minidisks, or memory cards. Not only
that but the song you want is always right there. I highly recommend this
as the best solution for portable music in the cockpit.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | Digital Music in the Cockpit |
I'm using a Nomad Jukebox, Randy. Upgraded the HD to 20GB and it holds
heaps of CDs.
>>I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.<<
What am I missing? Music out is what they're all about. Some have only an
earphone jack, others have a line output, too, that's not influenced by
the unit's volume control.
The connections you suggest will work fine!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
F1Rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for
> digital music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player and
> what, if any, problems you encountered connecting this device up to your
> intercom.
>
> I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I
> assume that I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this jack.
> Is that correct? I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.
That's pretty much the story. All MP3 players have at least a headphone-out
jack and this would probably work provided you were careful with your volume
settings on the player. It would be better if the player had a line-out jack,
and choosing the right player would go a long way toward helping the quality
of the audio signal. On some players this is built in, on others (like the
iPod) you need to buy an adapter to obtain the line-out signal.
-Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
I have a PM stereo intercom with a Sony MP3 cd player wired to it. The cd player
has a 10sec skip prevention feature. Haven't flown yet - but I've tested the
beejeebers out of it and I'm very happy.
Zap me direct if you need more details.....
-----Original Message-----
From: F1Rocket(at)comcast.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digital Music in the Cockpit
I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for digital
music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player and what, if any,
problems you encountered connecting this device up to your intercom.
I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I assume that
I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this jack. Is that correct?
I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.
Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
Randy
F1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Digital Music in the Cockpit |
While we're on the subject, I have a portable CD player with the headphone
output hooked to the intercom. It works, but the volume is very low. Is
there a simple fix or some gizmo I can buy to match the input?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com> |
| Subject: | Runaway trim switch |
I read recently on this list comments about the value of having/not having a
means to control/reverse a runaway trim. IF I were to add a switch in the
servo circuit that would cut the power to the offending relay or
Rocker/Stick switch that caused the problem, and provide power to the servo
to reverse the servo positon, how would I wire the Emergency Runaway Trim
Reversing Switch? (Hopefully you can interpret my description of the intent)
Thx
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com> |
| Subject: | Shielded cable question |
Forgot to ask one other question:
Am I asking for noise problems if I run my Elevator Trim servo wires in the
same 17 conductor cable as the PTT wires from my Infinity Stick grip forward
to a terminal block on the panel where they get routed to their final
destinations? I could run the sheilded 5 conductor cable from the servo
uninterupted to the panel, but am trying to minimize the number of wires
running thru the few holes provide thru my 7A center section. Thoughts?
Thx
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
Chad Robinson wrote:
> of the audio signal. On some players this is built in, on others (like the
> iPod) you need to buy an adapter to obtain the line-out signal.
I have used both the line output and the headphone output. They work pretty much
the same. The PS engineering audio panel does not have a level control for
the music in so you probably want some sort of volume control for your music
source. This tends to favor the headphone out from your music source.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
John Slade wrote:
>
> While we're on the subject, I have a portable CD player with the headphone
> output hooked to the intercom. It works, but the volume is very low. Is
> there a simple fix or some gizmo I can buy to match the input?
Bob Nuckols sells an amplifier kit that should solve your problem.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Yamokoski" <yamokosk(at)lakemichigancollege.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm receiver overload |
Thanks Bob et al for the responses to my question. If it wasn't for the fact
that it's occasionally a tower or controller that reports garbeled transmission,
I sure wouldn't sweat it.
As to the antenna, it is mounted near vertically in the vert. stab. Also,
in my never-ending quest to solve this mystery (including buying a new radio)
I've had many occasions to plug my handheld into the ship's antenna and fly that
way for weeks at a time. I never got a report of garbeled response using
the handheld. Now, maybe it was just that nobody bothered to report a problem
back to me during those times.
Anyway, thanks for the help. Is there any point in fiddling with the length
of cable connecting antenna to radio? I know optimum lengths are recommended,
but could that be related to my problem?
Bill Yamokoski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
ipod! I have a 15gb ipod that rocks the house. When I wired my GMA-340
audio panel, I installed a 3.5mm stereo jack under the panel. I just plug
this puppy in and go. I have like 2800 songs on my ipod and it's not even
full (yet).
The sound quality is excellent (I utilized the 20db boost jumper on the
GMA-340).
Why pay a subscription fee every friggin' month for "usually what you like"
programming on satellite radio when you can have your entire music
collection in one tiny compact, battery free (it's rechargable), non
aircraft current consumer, no moving parts, no panel space taker, etc.,
etc.?
Why install a piece of hardware in your panel that you *know* will be
obsolete in 2-3 years?
I'm all for the ipod and the like.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digital Music in the Cockpit
>
> I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for
digital music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player and
what, if any, problems you encountered connecting this device up to your
intercom.
>
> I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I
assume that I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this jack.
Is that correct? I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.
>
> Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I like too many kinds of music to own everything. Plus, I get to hear lots
of new artists without hearing any ads. 10 bucks a month is only one cd
a month. I like my XM. Everybody is different.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> ipod! I have a 15gb ipod that rocks the house. When I wired my GMA-340
> audio panel, I installed a 3.5mm stereo jack under the panel. I just
> plug this puppy in and go. I have like 2800 songs on my ipod and it's
> not even full (yet).
>
> The sound quality is excellent (I utilized the 20db boost jumper on the
> GMA-340).
>
> Why pay a subscription fee every friggin' month for "usually what you
> like" programming on satellite radio when you can have your entire music
> collection in one tiny compact, battery free (it's rechargable), non
> aircraft current consumer, no moving parts, no panel space taker, etc.,
> etc.?
>
> Why install a piece of hardware in your panel that you *know* will be
> obsolete in 2-3 years?
>
> I'm all for the ipod and the like.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net>
> To: "Aeroelectric List"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digital Music in the Cockpit
>
>
>>
>> I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for
> digital music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player
> and what, if any, problems you encountered connecting this device up to
> your intercom.
>>
>> I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I
> assume that I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this
> jack. Is that correct? I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out
> jack.
>>
>> Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
>>
>> Randy
>> F1 Rocket
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
> Why install a piece of hardware in your panel that
you *know* will be
> obsolete in 2-3 years?
>
> I'm all for the ipod and the like.
>
> )_( Dan
There's also the question of 'how often will I use
it?' Unless the airplane is for serious
transportation, I submit that the answer would be
'seldom'. I considered a flat panel display on the
back of the pilot's seat for the benefit of the
three in the back. Looked at prices, how often it
would be used, and decided that the flat panel would
make more sense in a laptop that could be taken on
that rare long trip with the family.
Will you actually turn on an XM radio when you're
puddle-jumping to the $100 hamburger in a loose
formation of your buddies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I use my XM at home far more than anywhere else.... But
I agree with the philosophy you are suggesting. I wouldn't
buy an XM to permanently mount in the plane.
MAP
>
> There's also the question of 'how often will I use
> it?' Unless the airplane is for serious
> transportation, I submit that the answer would be
> 'seldom'. I considered a flat panel display on the
> back of the pilot's seat for the benefit of the
> three in the back. Looked at prices, how often it
> would be used, and decided that the flat panel would
> make more sense in a laptop that could be taken on
> that rare long trip with the family.
>
> Will you actually turn on an XM radio when you're
> puddle-jumping to the $100 hamburger in a loose
> formation of your buddies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Digital Music in the Cockpit |
I used an XM satelite radio in my KR-2. It was great. You can get satelite
weather services on it now also.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
F1Rocket(at)comcast.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digital Music in the Cockpit
I'm getting ready to purchase and install my intercom and a source for
digital music. I'm interested in what others are using as a MP3 player and
what, if any, problems you encountered connecting this device up to your
intercom.
I am using a PM-3000 stereo intercom. It comes with a music jack. I assume
that I plug the headphone output from the MP3 player into this jack. Is
that correct? I'm not sure if the MP3 players have a music out jack.
Your experiences, pro's, con's, etc appreciated.
Randy
F1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Power diode drops |
Just ran some real tests. (Power supply in constant current mode. (TEK PS
2511 Programmable Power Supply), 'In calibration' for the curious :-)
A "typical" Diode bridge (25A rated) V drop at 7 amps is 0.81V (0.76V at 2
amps) and a Schottky power diode is 0.31V (0.25V at 2 amps), Both at room
temp.
The extra 0.5V (usable) you get (with Schottky) can be a lot of extra
battery life.
Look at the minimum voltages required for some avionics and then look at the
Amp hours available in a battery with a 0.5V lower end of useful life
voltage. 0.5 volts can be a significant increase in useful life, when you
must run on battery power alone.
I am using a 160CMQ045 that is insulated from the case and has 3/16" (#10)
boltable lugs. So while not inexpensive (just under $30 in ones), its very
easy to mount and wire. Use www.findchips.com to locate stock.
(Currently in stock at Digikey.)
Useful for both "avionics bus" etc and also for charging a backup battery
where the V drop of "normal" bridge diodes would prevent a full charge (not
to mention the heat sink required during a high current chargeing period.
The secret to low V drop with Schottky diodes, besides the technology, is a
large die size IE high current rating. The above part is two diodes
internally connected as a full wave rectifier rated at 160 amps each. Thus
its very close to a drop in replacement for the diode bridge Electrically
direct replacement and mechanically "no insulation" bolt down mounting.
Plus nearly 2/3 fewer watts lost in heat you must sink.
There are lots of other Schottky diodes available but few with as simple
mechanical and electrical mounting.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM A200 and Flightcom 403 - Transmit Problems? |
John Slade wrote:
>
>While I have you're learned ear....
>
>My transponder recently came back from Narco where it was fixed, tested and
>upgraded.
>The Tower isn't getting a transponder signal. There IS power to the
>transponder. Is there anything I can check before calling in the $75/hr guy?
>
>John Slade
>
Generic troubleshooting stuff follows. All except the interrogation
light would apply to comms as well as xp's.
Does the interrogation light flash periodically, indicating that the
xponder is hearing the radar? If not, look for antenna/coax/connector
issues.
If it does flash, see above. ;-)
Seriously, have you made sure that the xp is *fully* seated in the
tray, *and* that the lock/retaining screw is completely tightened?
Sometimes you must insert the radio in the tray, tighten the screw, push
on the radio & discover that it will go in a little more, then discover
that the screw isn't tight any more, so you tighten it again. If it's
not fully seated, the coax connector might not be making contact with
its mate in the tray. You might be able to receive but not transmit
(both needed in a transponder). This can apply to a regular comm also.
The same problem can be caused by the tray being mounted slightly too
far back (forward?) behind the instrument panel.
Have you checked the ant. cable to be sure that the center conductor
isn't shorted to the shield? It's not hard at all to have a strand of
the shield get folded over & touch the center conductor. You can check
for shorts with a regular ohm meter by probing center & shield after you
disconnect the coax from the back of the tray. Even with the antenna
connected you should see near infinite (very high) resistance when
measuring between center conductor & shield.
Do working xp's in other a/c at your airport flash their interrogation
lights while on the ground showing that they can hear the radar while on
the ground? If so, try this:
After trying all the above, as a last resort you might make or borrow
another 3'-6' length of coax & another antenna. Just hook the spare coax
to the tray & prop the spare antenna vertically somewhere in the cockpit
where it can see the radar at the airport. (I'm assuming that the radar
is somewhere close.) You can call the tower or Approach & get a squawk
code, then ask them if they see your reply using the substituted
coax/antenna.
Last & very long shot: Is there a chance that the xp has an 'enable' pin
that would be used to control the xp with remote switches? If it does,
the manual might be deceptive or vague about the need to strap that pin
to ??? if you don't use the remote switch.
Charlie
(Thanks for helping blaze new trails with the rotary. I'm hoping to
follow down that path when my RV-7 is ready for a motor.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
My numbers are similar to Paul's, for the 276-1185 diode bridge I got from
Radio Shack versus the IR 100BGQ-030 Schottky, the numbers are:
Load Radio Shack Schottky
5A 0.86 Vf 0.32 Vf
10A 0.89 0.34
11A 0.91 0.35
16A 0.94 0.35
At any point the Schottky ran far cooler than the RS diode.
The energy left in the battery is extremely important. One of the techniques
that is now being used in battery operated devices is to use circuitry that
jacks up the output voltage to whatever you want while it sucks the
batteries flat. Example---a single 1.5 Volt cell drives circuitry that
produces 9V in a transistor- battery-sized package with flat discharge until
dead. MUCH greater capacity, MUCH lower cost. Cool....
So the Schottky can use much more of the energy contained in the battery.
That energy is sitting there at a great penalty in weight if you don't use
it. Someone should figure this out--it's probably a pound or more.
This is not a case of what Brian calls "angels dancing on the head of a
pin". This is not a subtle difference at all.
I've spent the last couple days putting my website back up. My old ISP
apparently left town under a cloud.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm receiver overload |
William Yamokoski wrote:
> radio) I've had many occasions to plug my handheld into the ship's
> antenna and fly that way for weeks at a time. I never got a report of
> garbeled response using the handheld. Now, maybe it was just that
> nobody bothered to report a problem back to me during those times.
> Anyway, thanks for the help. Is there any point in fiddling with the
> length of cable connecting antenna to radio? I know optimum lengths
> are recommended, but could that be related to my problem
The length of coax is not an issue. If changing the length of the coax improves
things there is something wrong with the antenna installation and you should
deal with the problem there.
When I have problems with transmit audio it is often RF getting into the mic input.
Does the problem change when you change the radio frequency? Does the problem
change when you switch microphones or headsets? These indicate that RF
is getting back into mic circuit.
Here are some possible fixes:
1. Add small bypass capacitors to the mic lines at the jacks and at the transceiver.
2. Add ferrite beads to the PTT, mic audio, and ground lines both at the jack
and at the transceiver.
3. Adjust the mic gain at the transceiver and at the microphone to see if there
is a combination that does away with the problem.
The ARRL has information on getting rid of RF interference in radios. You might
check out the Radio Amateur's Handbook for information. It also has good information
about antennas, coax, connectors, and getting the most out of a mobile
radio installation. This stuff is just as applicable to aircraft as it is
to cars.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> My numbers are similar to Paul's, for the 276-1185 diode bridge I got from
> Radio Shack versus the IR 100BGQ-030 Schottky, the numbers are:
>
> Load Radio Shack Schottky
> 5A 0.86 Vf 0.32 Vf
> 10A 0.89 0.34
> 11A 0.91 0.35
> 16A 0.94 0.35
>
> At any point the Schottky ran far cooler than the RS diode.
>
> The energy left in the battery is extremely important. One of the techniques
> that is now being used in battery operated devices is to use circuitry that
> jacks up the output voltage to whatever you want while it sucks the
> batteries flat. Example---a single 1.5 Volt cell drives circuitry that
> produces 9V in a transistor- battery-sized package with flat discharge until
> dead. MUCH greater capacity, MUCH lower cost. Cool....
I used one to build a 28V inverter to power a 28V attitude gyro from the 14V electrical
system in my RV-4. Worked like a champ and it wasn't much bigger than
a postage stamp.
> So the Schottky can use much more of the energy contained in the battery.
> That energy is sitting there at a great penalty in weight if you don't use
> it. Someone should figure this out--it's probably a pound or more.
>
> This is not a case of what Brian calls "angels dancing on the head of a
> pin". This is not a subtle difference at all.
In all but a very few cases the extra drop won't be an issue. If you are running
on battery power you are probably going to throw the switch that connects the
e-buss to the battery directly rather than through the blocking diode. Still,
I agree in principle and I use a Schottky diode in the electrical systems
I build because it is the best device for the job.
> I've spent the last couple days putting my website back up. My old ISP
> apparently left town under a cloud.
Sorry to hear that. Good luck!
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Music in the Cockpit |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> ipod! I have a 15gb ipod that rocks the house. When I wired my GMA-340
> audio panel, I installed a 3.5mm stereo jack under the panel. I just plug
> this puppy in and go. I have like 2800 songs on my ipod and it's not even
> full (yet).
...
> Why install a piece of hardware in your panel that you *know* will be
> obsolete in 2-3 years?
>
> I'm all for the ipod and the like.
Rock on dude! I have the 20GB iPod with 2600 songs in it and it is not even half
full. I even grabbed my 24-year-old son's CDs and ripped them too. Seems
he and I have some similar tastes, especially when it comes to Reggae.
Heck, my mother, father, and I were coming back across country from my daughter's
college graduation in the Comanche last week when my dad says, "gee, do you
have any big-band swing in there?" I was able to say, "let's see ... Glen Miller,
Benny Goodman, Les Brown, a bunch of Sinatra, Asleep at the Wheel, Manhattan
Transfer, the New York Voices ... and I have a bunch of be-bop and cool.
What do you want to hear?"
Yeah, the iPod is pretty awesome.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | B&C LR-3C question |
All,
I was working with B&C on this, but the gentleman is out of pocket for a
couple weeks and thought one of you might know the answer.
I am using a LED instead of an incandescent lamp for the OV light. The
issue I discussed with B&C was that the LED never goes out...it stays on
(dimly) even when the regulator is turned off. When I turn on the regulator
(battery only) the LED does blink properly. He mentioned that the regulator
bleeds a little current on the lamp pin all the time - not enough to
illuminate a lamp, but a LED still glows slightly.
He mentioned a fix of placing a 520-ohm resistor between Pin 5 (the lamp
lead) and another pin on the regulator. I have misplaced my notes and can
not remember specifically which other pin to connect the resistor to.
Does someone happen to know which one I should use? If not, I can always
wait a
couple of weeks until Tim gets back.
Thanks!
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
>
>My numbers are similar to Paul's, for the 276-1185 diode bridge I got from
>Radio Shack versus the IR 100BGQ-030 Schottky, the numbers are:
>
>Load Radio Shack Schottky
>5A 0.86 Vf 0.32 Vf
>10A 0.89 0.34
>11A 0.91 0.35
>16A 0.94 0.35
>
>At any point the Schottky ran far cooler than the RS diode.
>
>The energy left in the battery is extremely important. . .
This is a moot point. The battery is never used to supply normal
path current. The only time the diode is in service is while the alternator
is running and main bus voltage is 13.8 to 14.6 volts. People keep
tossing around these gawd-awful power dissipations as significant
to battery-only endurance when the diode carries no current during
alternator-out operations. Further, anyone running an e-bus load of
more than 5 amps continuous through ANY diode may be running the wrong
architecture.
> One of the techniques
>that is now being used in battery operated devices is to use circuitry that
>jacks up the output voltage to whatever you want while it sucks the
>batteries flat. Example---a single 1.5 Volt cell drives circuitry that
>produces 9V in a transistor- battery-sized package with flat discharge until
>dead. MUCH greater capacity, MUCH lower cost. Cool....
. . . completely inapplicable in this instance. Battery only ops tie
all e-bus equipment directly to the battery. E-bus loads should provide
useful operation down to 10.5 volts (battery capacity less than 5%). Jacking
up the parts count to squeeze that last 5% out of the battery is an
confession to having undersized the battery and/or subjecting it
to poor preventative maintenance.
>So the Schottky can use much more of the energy contained in the battery.
>That energy is sitting there at a great penalty in weight if you don't use
>it. Someone should figure this out--it's probably a pound or more.
>
>This is not a case of what Brian calls "angels dancing on the head of a
>pin". This is not a subtle difference at all.
Diode drop and wattage could be important if folks choose
to use it in a manner for which it was never suggested or intended.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C LR-3C question |
Hello James,
Bob did post a picture for that and I'm running this way without any
problems, a 220 ohm over the diode and a 220 in series direction regulator.
I will send you in a direct mail the sketch (jpg).
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C LR-3C question
>
> All,
>
> I was working with B&C on this, but the gentleman is out of pocket for a
> couple weeks and thought one of you might know the answer.
>
> I am using a LED instead of an incandescent lamp for the OV light. The
> issue I discussed with B&C was that the LED never goes out...it stays on
> (dimly) even when the regulator is turned off. When I turn on the
regulator
> (battery only) the LED does blink properly. He mentioned that the
regulator
> bleeds a little current on the lamp pin all the time - not enough to
> illuminate a lamp, but a LED still glows slightly.
>
> He mentioned a fix of placing a 520-ohm resistor between Pin 5 (the lamp
> lead) and another pin on the regulator. I have misplaced my notes and can
> not remember specifically which other pin to connect the resistor to.
>
> Does someone happen to know which one I should use? If not, I can always
> wait a
> couple of weeks until Tim gets back.
>
> Thanks!
>
> James Redmon
> Berkut #013 N97TX
> http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Facet fuel pumps - foam solvent? |
I took one of my Facet fuel pumps apart this evening. One of the square
solid state types.
Sunday nigth when I wanted to go fly one of the pumps didn't when I
turned on the power. After fiddeling a bit with it it started up. I had
also noticed occasional fuel pressure drops (very brief) over the last
few months.
This lead me to believe that the pump was intermittently bad.
I'm very impressed with the construction of these pumps. All of the
electronics are embedded completely in foam.
It's hard to see how one of these pumps could fail electrically. I
suppose that heat cycling could lead to a bad connection on the circuit
board even though all components are held firmly in place by the foam.
Of course it's impossible to inspect the electronics because of the foam.
Anybody here know of a solvent that will dissolve the foam and not harm
the electronic components and circuit board?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Personally I stand with Brian on this one, that is wasted power is wasted
power, it in my opinion is like throwing extra weight in the plane.
I personally like to design things for at least 2x margin. That is if a
circuit breaker is rated at 5Amps then the wiring should be able to handle
at least 10Amps continuously. So lets say that you have a silicon (spelled
it right this time) diode and running 5Amps. From Paul's numbers:
Amps Silicon Schottky
5A 4.3W 1.6W
10A 8.9W 3.4W
Now I do not know about other devices by my engine monitor
(www.sterntech.com) takes about 10W of power. Thus at 10A your wasting
almost as much power as the engine monitor takes. To put it another way if
you have a 10A alternator, at 10A E-bus draw you would be wasting 6% of the
alternator's power. At 5A and silicon you would be wasting about 3% of the
alternator's power.
Another reason it is good to use Schottky diodes is that you will most
likely have your engine monitor hanging off the E-bus. As such your battery
voltage measurement will but low by about 0.9V for a silicon diode. Of
course my engine monitor lets you calibrate the voltage measurement to
compensate but others will not.
Brian, sorry about misspelling your name, fingers are faster than brain more
often than I like to admit.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
Stern Technologies
4321 Waterwheel Dr
Raleigh NC 27606
919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
919-832-8441 (fax)
www.sterntech.com
tstern(at)sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Power Diode Drops
>
>My numbers are similar to Paul's, for the 276-1185 diode bridge I got from
>Radio Shack versus the IR 100BGQ-030 Schottky, the numbers are:
>
>Load Radio Shack Schottky
>5A 0.86 Vf 0.32 Vf
>10A 0.89 0.34
>11A 0.91 0.35
>16A 0.94 0.35
>
>At any point the Schottky ran far cooler than the RS diode.
>
>The energy left in the battery is extremely important. . .
This is a moot point. The battery is never used to supply normal
path current. The only time the diode is in service is while the
alternator
is running and main bus voltage is 13.8 to 14.6 volts. People keep
tossing around these gawd-awful power dissipations as significant
to battery-only endurance when the diode carries no current during
alternator-out operations. Further, anyone running an e-bus load of
more than 5 amps continuous through ANY diode may be running the wrong
architecture.
> One of the techniques
>that is now being used in battery operated devices is to use circuitry that
>jacks up the output voltage to whatever you want while it sucks the
>batteries flat. Example---a single 1.5 Volt cell drives circuitry that
>produces 9V in a transistor- battery-sized package with flat discharge
until
>dead. MUCH greater capacity, MUCH lower cost. Cool....
. . . completely inapplicable in this instance. Battery only ops tie
all e-bus equipment directly to the battery. E-bus loads should provide
useful operation down to 10.5 volts (battery capacity less than 5%).
Jacking
up the parts count to squeeze that last 5% out of the battery is an
confession to having undersized the battery and/or subjecting it
to poor preventative maintenance.
>So the Schottky can use much more of the energy contained in the battery.
>That energy is sitting there at a great penalty in weight if you don't use
>it. Someone should figure this out--it's probably a pound or more.
>
>This is not a case of what Brian calls "angels dancing on the head of a
>pin". This is not a subtle difference at all.
Diode drop and wattage could be important if folks choose
to use it in a manner for which it was never suggested or intended.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: B&C LR-3C question |
Ditto that. Here's the wiring diagram.
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/Alternator.pdf
Randy
F1 Rocket.
>
>
> Hello James,
>
> Bob did post a picture for that and I'm running this way without any
> problems, a 220 ohm over the diode and a 220 in series direction regulator.
>
> I will send you in a direct mail the sketch (jpg).
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C LR-3C question
>
>
>
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I was working with B&C on this, but the gentleman is out of pocket for a
> > couple weeks and thought one of you might know the answer.
> >
> > I am using a LED instead of an incandescent lamp for the OV light. The
> > issue I discussed with B&C was that the LED never goes out...it stays on
> > (dimly) even when the regulator is turned off. When I turn on the
> regulator
> > (battery only) the LED does blink properly. He mentioned that the
> regulator
> > bleeds a little current on the lamp pin all the time - not enough to
> > illuminate a lamp, but a LED still glows slightly.
> >
> > He mentioned a fix of placing a 520-ohm resistor between Pin 5 (the lamp
> > lead) and another pin on the regulator. I have misplaced my notes and can
> > not remember specifically which other pin to connect the resistor to.
> >
> > Does someone happen to know which one I should use? If not, I can always
> > wait a
> > couple of weeks until Tim gets back.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > James Redmon
> > Berkut #013 N97TX
> > http://www.berkut13.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> This is a moot point. The battery is never used to supply normal
> path current. The only time the diode is in service is while the alternator
> is running and main bus voltage is 13.8 to 14.6 volts. People keep
> tossing around these gawd-awful power dissipations as significant
> to battery-only endurance when the diode carries no current during
> alternator-out operations. Further, anyone running an e-bus load of
> more than 5 amps continuous through ANY diode may be running the wrong
> architecture.
You are right and I pointed that out last night. But I have two additional points
to make.
Some people are building airplanes that are engineering "works of art." Their
goal is to craft something that is as close to their image of perfection as they
can achieve. They do not use cast aluminum parts where machined billet aluminum
parts are available. The Schottky diode is a better diode for the purposes
described herein. Yes a standard silicon rectifier is "good enough" but people
want to go beyond "good enough". You only have to look at their wiring
or firewall forward to see what I mean. OTOH, If the MTBF were higher for the
silicon diode I would agree with you instantly. First and foremost it is about
safety and reliability.
And as for "5A is good enough", it may not be. I may find that to complete a flight
comfortably I will want to turn on more bits of avionics to safely and legally
complete an approach. For that reason I want all my avionics on the e-buss.
Each one has an on/off switch so I can turn off what I am not using to
conserve energy in the battery but in the last 10 minutes or so I may want everything.
Arbitrarily limiting the e-buss to 5A seems a bit limiting to me.
And, no, that does not include the landing lights. :-)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | battery capacity remaining |
One thing I have not seen discussed here are battery energy remaining meters.
These are devices that tell you how much energy is remaining in the battery and
how long the battery will battery will provide power at the current drain.
These are common devices in boats, RVs, and people living on alternative energy
systems (solar and wind power). Why not in aircraft?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
Hi Guys,
I'm building a Harmon Rocket II and have two 17ah batts in the baggage compartment
each with their own battery contactor. From the contactor, I ran #2 wire
fwd thru the firewall, some ten feet or so, to the starter contactor.
My Main and Endurance busses will be located on the cockpit side of the FW which
is a very short distance from the starter contactor and main battery wire.
Question 1: Would it be better to home run another large wire (#4 or 6 awg) from
the battery contactor as shown in dwg 11 to the main bus, or pick up the shortest
route, directly from the starter contactor (hot side of course), using
a much smaller wire (8 awg or so). The main potential problem with connecting
to the starter contactor is it is on the engine side of the FW and in the event
of a fire, I would loose my feed to the Main bus as the wire burns. By the
way, the main batt wires both + and - run thru a stainless steel handrail 90
deg fitting on the FW so there is no bolt thru the FW for the + battery lead.
Question 2: If I go with the home run method, do you recommend using a different
route for the wire within the aircraft or run it along side the #2 +and- wires?
Thanks,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 14V to 28V inverter? |
| From: | "Crapse, Richard W (Rick), WCS" <rwcrapse(at)att.com> |
I would like to know more about that. That would give me a box to power other avionics
off my bus. Details, please.
Rick
Cozy 3 #40 - Building the strakes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Bob and Brian
Points to consider
Approximately 1/2V is not trivial depending on your wiring design. An e-bus
load thru a diode is a very common design. At a battery load of 2-10 amps
you get more power out of your Xponder and or Com with 12v vs 11.5v and your
battery will be usable longer. Eventually the battery dies but its end of
life voltage is always effectively 1/2V lower with the subject diode which
can be significant time in flight duration depending on the load.
Consider the data for an Odyssey battery. 1/2V is 40% of the total energy.
From the Odyssey specifications the following.
12.3V = 60% state of charge
11.8V = 20% state of charge.
Note the above voltages are for a battery that is unloaded and thus not
directly applicable. Loaded voltages will be lower and load dependent. I
reference this info to illustrate the point that 1/2V is not a small
difference in usable energy at end of life voltage as noted later.
As the data is nearly linear you get a 40% loss in usable capacity
regardless of where you define end of life voltage. There is only 10% left
at 11.7V plus what ever diode drop is in play. I do not know about the rest
of you, but I like the extra voltage to my com and xponder where the added
voltage can (and typically does)increase power output and perhaps make the
difference in being heard and "seen on the radar".
With battery end of charge around 11.6V a "normal diode has dropped the
e-bus voltage to below 11.0V. Even equipment that "meets" DO-160 may not be
required to below that V as DO-160 has no requirement for equipment to even
work below 11.0V unless it was specifically designed to do so and that is
optional.
So lets assume your com requires 11.0V minimum and that it does meet DO-160.
If you use a Radio shack diode vs a Schottky you can shorten your time to
the end of life (11.0V e-bus ) with a 4.0 amp average load by 1/4 or more.
Thats a lot!
Sure none of us ever expect to be in a case where we need every drop of
energy from a battery to make it safely to the airport, but why not design a
system that is simple (no extra switches to bypass diodes) KISS and use the
best part for the job not just what can be made to work under normal usage.
Also reducing the heat load (typically behind the panel) is not
insignificant to me.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend $50,000 on a avionics
package and then quibble over the difference in the lowest cost battery or a
more expensive diode that improves emergency operations.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Trampas wrote:
>
> Personally I stand with Brian on this one, that is wasted power is wasted
> power, it in my opinion is like throwing extra weight in the plane.
It is purist thing.
> Brian, sorry about misspelling your name, fingers are faster than brain more
> often than I like to admit.
No worries. I get a chuckle out of it. Heck, my nickname in elementary school
was "Mr. Brain". I was the nerdy guy who brought books on rocket engine design
or the Radio Amateur's Handbook to school instead of the Hardy Boys.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocker Switch Problems-Followup |
Bob, Thanks for the feedback. You asked which datasheet I was looking at.
The copy that was faxed to me that shows a schematic of the 6 power
terminals is:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/printfriendly.asp?FAM=tr&PN=AML34FBA4AC
01 --- it no longer is a valid URL as they apparently deleted it while they
are correcting it. Honeywell's technical rep Wendy Domino's e-mail which
was posted on Aircraft Engraver's web site showed the datasheet info you
cite but for the "AC" code stated "2-pole six terminals". I had not seen
the datasheet you cite below, which apparently is the correct one, but I
suppose one needs to know that one form A switch only has 2 terminals.
I checked out the "TP" switches. They would require a major rework of
my
panel. Looks like I will have the operators re-engraved on the upper half
and live with it. Thanks again. Scott
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rocker Switch Problems
>
>
>Just received my engraved rocker switch operators (plastic covers) for my
>illuminated Honeywell (Micro Switch) Double Pole AML34FBA4AC01 (15A
>resistive @ 12v DC) panel switches. Since the switches are low on the
panel,
>I had the engraving done on the lower half per Aircraft Engravers
>recommendation. Turns out the internal light bulb only illuminates one
half
>of the operator, which happens to be the top half with the switch mounted
>conventionally (push top for on and bottom for off). Any suggestions?
>
> There is a lot more to the story, so if you are interested, read
on.
>Aircraft Engravers sells and engraves the operators (plastic covers), but
>does not sell the switches, thus refers you to a distributor. Prior to
>ordering same, I obtained Honeywell's data sheet showing six terminals with
>ON-ON positions, i.e. the switch could be rotated 180 degrees, placing the
>light bulb on either the upper or lower face.
Which data sheet are you looking at? The Honeywell website data
sheet I found is
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/manual/catalog/c30035.pdf
If you dissect the part number cited above we deduce as follows:
AML34F = rectangular 1-lamp circuit
B = black
A = no lamp installed
4 = .187" solder/fast-on terminal
AC = two form A switches
01 = operating action is ON-OFF (maintained in both states)
If the switch has six terminals, then perhaps two of them are not
used since the "A" value for lamp suggests there is no lamp installed
in the parts you have. You need a "C" part for 12v lamp, or "E" for
a 28v lamp.
> I also received a copy of
>Honeywell's technical representative's e-mail confirming the switch has 6
>terminals. They have now confirmed that both pieces of information are
>incorrect and in fact the switch has 4 switch terminals (2 pole single
>throw) plus an independent light circuit.
That jives with the data sheet I've cited above.
> When I brought this to Aircraft
>Engravers attention, they were dumfounded, having engraved hundreds of
>operators on the lower half with no mention of my problem. They suggested
I
>post this message. Am I overlooking the obvious?
The data sheet does indicate that only the upper half of the switch
is illuminated.
> Options considered so far:
> Engrave upper half - difficult to read upper half when
> switch is in OFF
>position due to location on bottom of panel.
>
> Install switch upside down - this would work but I am
> afraid of a
>potential "John Denver" result and I don't think the FAA inspector would
>like it.
More importantly, would YOU like it? How hard is it to get one
of these switches apart? You might be able to modify them to
put the lamp on the other side . . . better yet, while you're
hammer-n-saw'n on them, change over to white or other color
leds for illumination.
> Find another DPDT ON-ON switch with 6 terminals- Panel is
> cut, final
>wiring near complete (except for switches), can't find a switch the same
>size.
>
> Modify the switch to let bulb light reach the bottom half
> - cut and
>drilled the switch mechanism to no avail. Light won't transfer.
Hmmm . . . that answers that question . . .
> Use Honeywell's 3 amp switch with 6 terminals and add
> solid state relays-I
>would need 7 relays (out of 12) and would like to avoid the complexity.
>
> Turn on cockpit light - Everything on panel is internally
> lit. No plans
>for a cockpit light other than battery backup flashlight.
You could go with non-illuminated switches and illuminate a reverse
engraved overlay panel. Leds could be used to light this up as well.
I saw some Glasair panels years ago that used the TP series rockers
from Honeywell. These feature separate operators that you can buy
in a translucent white, engrave front faces, and back-light with
LEDs or other small lamps. Best yet, the TP series rocker switches
are available in all the special functions including progressive
transfer. See:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/pdbdownload/images/12pa5.series.chart.1
.pdf
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com/printfriendly.asp?FAM=tr&PN=102TP81-10
>I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this matter.
This is an excellent illustration that supports Nuckolls' love affair
with toggle switches. There are REALLY great looking products
out there that will certainly dress up your panel . . . but
at the end of the day, the TASK of opening one set of contacts in
favor of closing another set of contacts to make something electrical
happen is the same whether it's a $5 toggle switch or a $50, back-lighted
rocker.
Bob . . .
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 14V to 28V inverter? |
Crapse, Richard W (Rick), WCS wrote:
> I would like to know more about that. That would give me a box to power other
avionics off my bus. Details, please.
I used a little boost-type inverter chip from Maxim, the MAX669. Here is the application note: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/910
This is great for turning a 28V gyro into a 14V gyro. I found that I could buy
overhauled 28V gyros much cheaper than I could buy 14V gyros so this is what
I did to power them from the 14V system..
This is not a universal 28V power supply since it can only source about 1A.
There are high-power step-up converters available if you care to look. The company that makes the battery equalizer I use on my boat (I need both 12V and 24V from my boat battery bank) also makes high-power step-up and step down converters. See http://www.surepower.com/Products/dc2dc.asp and http://www.surepower.com/pdf/ebr_dcdc.pdf
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerzy Krasinski" <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 14V to 28V inverter? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crapse, Richard W (Rick), WCS" <rwcrapse(at)att.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 14V to 28V inverter?
>
> I would like to know more about that. That would give me a box to power
other avionics off my bus. Details, please.
>
> Rick
> Cozy 3 #40 - Building the strakes.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Paul Messinger wrote:
> Approximately 1/2V is not trivial depending on your wiring design. An e-bus
> load thru a diode is a very common design. At a battery load of 2-10 amps
> you get more power out of your Xponder and or Com with 12v vs 11.5v and your
> battery will be usable longer. Eventually the battery dies but its end of
> life voltage is always effectively 1/2V lower with the subject diode which
> can be significant time in flight duration depending on the load.
The point that your xpdr and comm will transmit with higher power is a good one.
Since you will directly connect your e-buss to the battery in the case of alternator
failure, the end-point voltage relative to diode drop is a non-issue.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerzy Krasinski" <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 14V to 28V inverter? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crapse, Richard W (Rick), WCS" <rwcrapse(at)att.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 14V to 28V inverter?
>
> I would like to know more about that. That would give me a box to power
other avionics off my bus. Details, please.
>
> Rick
> Cozy 3 #40 - Building the strakes.
Richard,
They are quite expensive. But one can use a converter from trucks and these
are far cheaper. Some trucks have -12V system. All radios etc.require +12V,
so they make -12V to +12V converters providing lots of current. These
converters can be used as +12V to +24V converters. Just connect -12V
terminal of the converter to the ground, connect ground of the converter to
+12V of the system, and you will have +24V at the +12V terminal of the
converter. This way you put the 12V output of the converter in series with
your battery and get 24 volts on the output. Remember that the box of the
converter is now at 12V potential, which is not a big deal in a plastic
plane. In a metal plane that would be scary, and I would recommend to
reconnect the box inside the converter to the -12V terminal which is now the
ground, of course disconnecting the old connection to the former ground of
the converter. I use Astron model 1515-18, which is 18 amps max output
converter. I have a plastic plane but I reconnected the box to -12V
terminal i.e. to the real ground of the plane. That was quite easy, I had to
put isolating washers under four screws. I got the converter on ebay for
$30. A new one is a few times more expensive, I forgot the price. Worth to
say that it is not a bad converter, it holds the output voltage, and it does
not take much current on the input if the output is not loaded, unlike many
others that swallow lots of current loaded or not.
Jerzy
forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Diode Drops |
Hello all,
I can agree on the fact, that the Schotky is the better diode, but:
-the argument of lower voltage and saving enegy and
having more power available on the e-bus is only partly true, because:
1. when the alternator is running (feed through main bus, voltage
drop occurs) we have a main bus voltage of 13.4V and the
voltage on the e.bus is high enough with both diodes.
2. when the alternator fails the e-bus is feeded through the e-bus
switch
directly and we do not go through the diode hence no voltage
drop,
no more energy available as diode not used.
What I can agree:
1. due to the higher voltage drop more heat is disipated which could
cause
some problems in narrow spaced paneld.
2. due to the higher voltage drop in an alternator on situation we
do need
to produce more energy (from the alternator) voltage drop diff 0.5V
with 5A load this accounts for 0.18A my ship has a standard
load of
around 15 A during cruise so this is around 1.2% lost energy
May 17, 2004 - June 04, 2004
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-df