AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-di
July 01, 2004 - July 26, 2004
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low)] |
I just *hate* it when this happens.
#2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
circuit on the data sheet & you can't tie the power supply ground to
the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
isolated battery to power it.
I'll keep looking.
Charlie
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output(now not so low)
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:50:46 -0500
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>With the options that have been presented, there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play. Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the
power source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for a box with two stereo
jacks and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is
anyone out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket(at)comcast.net. At this point in my project, I have more $$ than
time.
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card and take a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this
thread.
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>
>
>With the options that have been presented,there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play.Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the power
source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>
>
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for abox with two stereo jacks
and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is anyone
out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket(at)comcast.net. At this point inmy project, I have more $$ than time.
>
>
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card andtake a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
>
>
>Randy
>
>
>F1 Rocket
>
Ok, here ya go:
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53503
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=30370
data sheet:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/ha43man.pdf
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53829
data sheet for above:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/headamp.pdf
The 2nd one is the most likely candidate. 1/4" stereo phone jacks in &
out, 20 dB gain, 12 V DC power jack.
(No, you won't be using it in its design environment. Do you care? :-) )
Charlie
(I can't believe it took me this long to find this)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04 |
Then click on this link to make your changes. No one else can do it for you!
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stevenson" <johnstevenson31(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04
>
> I will to no longer receive emials from AEROELECTRIC-LIST DIGEST.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
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> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 06/30/04: 19
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:00 AM - Low Audio Output (f1rocket(at)comcast.net)
> 2. 10:53 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 3. 11:29 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Ross Mickey)
> 4. 12:49 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (f1rocket(at)comcast.net)
> 5. 01:06 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 6. 03:26 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 7. 03:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 8. 04:04 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Rick Girard)
> 9. 04:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (royt.or(at)netzero.com)
> 10. 04:09 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard Tasker)
> 11. 04:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 12. 04:30 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 13. 05:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 14. 06:12 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard E. Tasker)
> 15. 06:36 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 16. 06:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 17. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 18. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 19. 07:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: f1rocket(at)comcast.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching
for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
> I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
> Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have
> offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio
Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
> not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a
bit
> much for me to complete.
> Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
> Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier
already
> built?
> Inquiring minds want to know.
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching
for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
>
>
> I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
>
>
> Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have offered
> amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
not.
> Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a bit
much
> for me to complete.
>
>
> Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
Are
> there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier already
> built?
>
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
> > I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable
> > device in not sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom
> > music circuit. Therefore, an in-line amplifier is required.
>
> Actually, power is not the issue. Most audio panels have a relatively high
input
> impedance for the music input so you really need voltage gain, not power
gain.
> A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>
> OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to be
a pretty
> common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000 audio panels in
> my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage drive to achieve a
comfortable
> listening level.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Ross Mickey"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> Brian,
>
> Fortunately I had just purchased a 6000 series PS Engineering audio
> panel when this whole issue of low volume levels was being discussed on
> the list. The solution to the low volume issue by PS Engineering was to
> design the 7000 series. Since I had not opened the box on my 6000
> series, I was able to trade it in for a 7000. The main difference, in
> this regard, is the 7000 series has a separate volume control for audio
> inputs and the 6000 does not. Those with the 6000 series are left to
> solve the problem with an add-on.
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to
> be a pretty common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000
> audio panels in my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage
> drive to achieve a comfortable listening level.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: f1rocket(at)comcast.net
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> >A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> >
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>
>
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "John Slade"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> > >A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> > >
> > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
> > recommendation? Thanks.
> >
> > Randy
> > F1 Rocket
> Don't feel dense, Randy.
> I've had the same problem for 3 months, and have asked the same question.
> I'm following this thread hoping (this time) for a solution. Other similar
> threads have lead nowhere. I don't want to build anything. I just want to
> buy some simple, cheap gizmo that'll boost the audio on my plug in
portable
> CD player so I can actually hear it.
> Regards,
> John Slade
> Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >>A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> >>
> >
> > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
> Now it is my turn to be sorry. I spoke before thinking. I was thinking in
terms
> of building something but you are looking for an off-the-shelf solution.
What
> you need is a preamp. And, sorry, I can't think of any that are a) cheap,
> b) small, and c) powered by 12V.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "John Slade"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> > > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> > product recommendation? Thanks.
> How about this little baby?
> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
>
> Would this do the job for us?
> John Slade
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Rick Girard
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> I realize this isn't exactly off the shelf, but what about the
> amplifiers in cheap computer speakers? Go to a PC recycler, or take the
> wife garage saleing for a day and buy a pair of computer speakers for a
> dollar. There is also the option of buying amplified speakers made
> specifically for walk men and ipod style personal stereos, but they're
> not likely to be a buck. Tear the guts out, put it in an altoid box and
> double back tape it out of the way. Just a PBI.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "royt.or(at)netzero.com"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Low Audio Output
>
>
> I've been using a Radio Shack headphone booster (pn 33-1109)and portable
CD/MP3 player in my plane with Garmin 340 audio panel, Peltor 7004 headset
and/or Lightspeed XL20 headset. This has been marginal but not ideal. I've
purchased parts to build HeadBanger headphone amp. This is also available
prebuilt. See http://www.minidisc.org/headbanger.html I plan to run this
from the plane with a 12v to 9v powersupply.
>
> I recently installed a Headsets Inc ANR kit in my Peltor. See
http://www.headsetsinc.com/ The volume output of the upgraded headset is
much louder. If I always flew solo, I would be very happy with the portable
player, Radio Shack booster and ANR'ed Peltors. I'm still planning to build
the amp and power supply. I'll power the Headsets Inc ANR from the same
power supply.
>
> I'll report back when I have completed and installed the HeadBanger amp.
>
> (Garmin also say's there are four surface mount resistors which can be
removed
> to increase the external audio volume and may increase the noise. My local
shop
> quote to do this seemed out rageous. Something like $150.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
230hrs,
> 320 landings
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> From: Richard Tasker
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
> take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
> work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
>
> Sorry, Dick Tasker
>
> John Slade wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>product recommendation? Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >How about this little baby?
> > 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >
> > http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >
> >Would this do the job for us?
> >John Slade
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> John Slade wrote:
>
> > How about this little baby?
> > 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >
> > http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >
> > Would this do the job for us?
>
> Yes, it should.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> From: Charlie England
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> >I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours
searching for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
> >I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
> >Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have
> offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio
Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
> not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a
> bit much for me to complete.
> >Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
> Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier
already
> built?
> >Inquiring minds want to know.
> >Randy
> >F1 Rocket
> >
>
> Here's the link to the RS 33-1109:
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/Manuals/OME33-1109.pdf
>
> 40 mW is .8 volts into a 16 ohm load & isn't likely to do the trick. I'd
> want at least 2-3 volts output to give myself a little wiggle room.
>
> Just for grins, here are some audiophile quality headphone amps that
> could be made to work, but might be a little higher quality than what
> you need.
> http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=27
>
> This has more gain than you really need & still costs too much...
> http://www.opamplabs.com/m9c.htm
>
> Does the desire for plug&play arise out of the need for speed &
> convenience, or 'fear of soldering'? FWIW, if you can wire your airplane
> you can assemble a simple kit of electronic parts. If you just 'must
> have' plug & play, I'll call our local A/V supplier tomorrow & see
> what's available.
>
> Charlie
> (electronics tech in a former life)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> From: Charlie England
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
> capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
> intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
> of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
> an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
> transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
>
> Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
> amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
> slowwwly while playing something through the source.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Richard Tasker wrote:
>
> >
> >Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
> >take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
> >work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
> >
> >Sorry, Dick Tasker
> >
> >John Slade wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>product recommendation? Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>How about this little baby?
> >> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >>
> >> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >>
> >>Would this do the job for us?
> >>John Slade
> >>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Richard E. Tasker"
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
>
> Well, you are probably right. I am an electrical engineer :-) and
> look at it as not the correct device for the intended purpose - to do a
> little preamplification of his MP3 player to feed to his PM3000 intercom.
>
> While either should work (if the problem has been stated correctly) I
> would suggest that this would be a more appropriate solution (from the
> same source):
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/vk2572.html
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>
> >
> >My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
> >capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
> >intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
> >of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
> >an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
> >transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
> >
> >Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
> >amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
> >slowwwly while playing something through the source.
> >
> >Charlie
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
>
>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:03:30 PM Central Standard Time,
Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes:
Clear your browser cache and scroll all the way to the bottom.
-
Larry Bowen
Good Evening Larry,
Is that bit of wizardry something that it would be easy to explain or should
I contact a computer expert to tell me how to do it?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output |
In a message dated 7/1/2004 7:50:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
brianl(at)lloyd.com writes:
Well ... not really. The output impedance of this little amp is actually
well under an ohm. Most of these little amps are voltage amps with very low
output impedances. Even a preamp using an op-amp is going to have a
sub-10-ohm output impedance. And even with that the output impedance is going
to be a
function of the amount of feedback.
Yes, I forgot about feedback. Brian, you have this well thought out. I
will await your ideal choice for a plug and play preamp that will be the best
compromise for all considerations.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output |
KITFOXZ(at)aol.com wrote:
> Yes, I forgot about feedback. Brian, you have this well thought out. I
> will await your ideal choice for a plug and play preamp that will be the best
> compromise for all considerations.
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Oh, I am not going to get into pontificating about "the best". Most any little
amp that has an output relative to ground and a single supply should do just
fine. It can be a couple of small-signal op-amps or it can be an audio output
chip like the LM380 with cap-coupled input and output. Several people have pointed
out suitable amps.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low)] |
Just curious Charlie, what problem does this create that makes it unacceptable?
Randy
F1 Rocket
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> I just *hate* it when this happens.
>
> #2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
> circuit on the data sheet & you can't tie the power supply ground to
> the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
> isolated battery to power it.
>
> I'll keep looking.
>
> Charlie
Just curious Charlie, what problem does this create that makes it unacceptable?
Randy
F1 Rocket
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
I just *hate* it when this happens.
#2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
circuit on the data sheet you can't tie the power supply ground to
the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
isolated battery to power it.
I'll keep looking.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
I seem to be seeing about half the conversation on this. Missed the
original message and for some reason I'm getting only bits and
pieces of the thread. Is this all coming through the list or is
there some direct e-mails involved?
In any case, I'd be pleased to know more about the original
problem and what's being discussed to mitigate it.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
Bob,
I started this thread by asking the question of "Is there an off the shelf, plug-n-play
solution to the problem of low audio output when connecting a portable
MP3 player to a PM3000 intercom via the music input jacks.
The response has been very interesting in that despite to proponderance of people
using portable music devices in the cockpit, the answer to my question appears
to be "NO".
Various headphone amp solutions have been proposed with varying degrees of success.
Portable battery devices like the Boostaroo, are not the most desireable
due to short battery life. A device that can be hooked up to the bus is more
desirable.
I'd appreciate any input you might provide. While building a device like the one
outlined on your website is an option, I desire a plug-n-play solution if possible,
as time is more important than money at the moment.
Randy
F1 Rocket
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> I seem to be seeing about half the conversation on this. Missed the
> original message and for some reason I'm getting only bits and
> pieces of the thread. Is this all coming through the list or is
> there some direct e-mails involved?
>
> In any case, I'd be pleased to know more about the original
> problem and what's being discussed to mitigate it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bob,
I started this thread by asking the question of "Is there an off the shelf, plug-n-play
solution to the problem of low audio output when connecting a portable
MP3 player to a PM3000 intercom via the music input jacks.
The response has been very interesting in that despite to proponderance of people
using portable music devices in the cockpit, the answer to my question appears
to be "NO".
Various headphone amp solutions have been proposed with varying degrees of success.
Portable battery devices like the Boostaroo, are not the most desireable
due to short battery life. A device that can be hooked up to the bus is more desirable.
I'd appreciate any input you might provide. While building a device like the one
outlined on your website is an option, I desire a plug-n-play solution if possible,
as time is more important than money at the moment.
Randy
F1 Rocket
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
I seem to be seeing about half the conversation on this. Missed the
original message and for some reason I'm getting only bits and
pieces of the thread. Is this all coming through the list or is
there some direct e-mails involved?
In any case, I'd be pleased to know more about the original
problem and what's being discussed to mitigate it.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
anner ads or any other
Specific: http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
>
>Bob,
>I started this thread by asking the question of "Is there an off the
>shelf, plug-n-play solution to the problem of low audio output when
>connecting a portable MP3 player to a PM3000 intercom via the music input
>jacks.
>The response has been very interesting in that despite to proponderance of
>people using portable music devices in the cockpit, the answer to my
>question appears to be "NO".
>Various headphone amp solutions have been proposed with varying degrees of
>success. Portable battery devices like the Boostaroo, are not the most
>desireable due to short battery life. A device that can be hooked up to
>the bus is more desirable.
>I'd appreciate any input you might provide. While building a device like
>the one outlined on your website is an option, I desire a plug-n-play
>solution if possible, as time is more important than money at the moment.
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
Understand. The output from a portable player is designed to
drive the common entertainment headphones which can range from
8 to 50 ohms impedance. Aircraft headsets run from 100 to 600 ohms
and take more voltage to produce similar perceived volume.
Have you tried the Boostaroo? In other words, if the Boostaroo
were bus powered, would it provide adequate performance. I note
that it speaks to 12 db of gain which is a voltage gain of
4x . . . just about right to make up the difference between
aircraft and entertainment headsets.
I suspect you could develop a battery-clean power source
to allow powering the Boostaroo from ships power. The amplifier
construction project described on my website can be set up
for a variety of gain values and would be a good, wired-in
example of an amplifier that can be powered from ship's bus.
It seems that whatever you do, you'll have to do some hammer-n-saw'n
on the device either to modify a battery powered off-the-shelf
product or to build-from-scratch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
Quick follow-up:
Check out this link
http://www.hobbytron.net/vk2572.html
Here's an amplifier assembly you can purchase assembled for about
$20 that would probably do the trick. You'd need to box it up
and mount it but it's already rigged for external power.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> In any case, I'd be pleased to know more about the original
> problem and what's being discussed to mitigate it.
Problem: the current crop of intercoms with stereo music input have insufficient
gain to provide proper audio levels for the typical crop of personal music systems,
e.g. MP3 players, MD players, "Walkman", etc.
Solution: a stereo amp that provides some 10db-20db of gain.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | XP Power Supply noise |
Bob ...I wired an XM Delphi SKYFi received into my RV6. When I fired up the
avionics for the 1st time last week there was a high pitched noise on the
circuit. After considerable time I chased it down to the XM 12volt auto
converter for the SKYFi!
All the audio wires going to the XM are shielded, as are the headphone/mic
lines, separate ground to the panel etc. How can I eliminate this noise?
I can't live with out my XM! The only 'common' is that the 12 volt
converter and my headphone power supplies are run on the same 12 volt
circuit since they terminate in the same area.
Regards,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low)] |
First, make a mental note that ' - ' isn't always the same as 'ground'.
Sometimes it's 'below ground'.
If you look closely at the schematic shown on the data sheet, you will
see that the 'negative' or 'ground' of the power connector doesn't
connect to 'ground' in the electronics. It connects to 'V-' . The
particular model opamp (triangles in the drawing) used in this device
requires both a positive & negative supply voltage, referenced to
ground. The designer is 'tricking' the opamps into seeing + & - by
creating an artificial ground reference at 1/2 the supply voltage. This
works fine if everything 'floats' as it would using headphones, but if
you wire it into the plane, you will tie the aircraft's ground to the
'V-', or negative voltage power supply terminal seen by the opamps.
Compare the power input circuit to
http://www.rolls.com/data/mp13man.pdf
Notice the 'fat' terminal of the power connector on this one connected
to the ground symbol, while the unusable one has that terminal connected
to a terminal labeled '-'.
BTW, this one would probably work, but you'd need 2 for stereo. The
'probably' is inserted because there's a 7812 12 volt voltage regulator
in there & it wants to see an input voltage a couple of volts above its
output voltage. An aircraft power bus with the engine running will be
close to 14 V, so there you go. Note also that the mfgr has labeled the
power jack 'DC IN 12V'.
These guys seem to make a lot of stuff; why not just give them a call &
ask whether they have anything more suitable. Tell them you need to see
a single ended 12 V DC negative ground power supply, with the power
supply, input & output sharing a common ground, adjustable gain of at
least 20dB, max undistorted output of at least 3 Volts RMS into
headphones or a 600ohm load, and 2 channels (stereo operation). Oh yeah,
you need >10k ohms input impedance.
http://www.rolls.com/
Rolls Corporation
5968 South 350 W.
Salt Lake City, Utah, 84107
Phone: (801) 263-9053 Fax: (801) 263-9068
You can also try your local pro musicians' shop. You'll need to find
their resident technogeek to match the above wish list with the products
they sell. They will probably have a headphone amp in stock that uses a
single ended power supply. You can also ask for an 'active direct box
with gain' but most direct boxes attenuate the input rather than boost it.
Charlie
(could have built you one quicker, but half the fun is in the hunt)
f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>Just curious Charlie, what problem does this create that makes it unacceptable?
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I just *hate* it when this happens.
>>
>>#2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
>>circuit on the data sheet & you can't tie the power supply ground to
>>the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
>>isolated battery to power it.
>>
>>I'll keep looking.
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>>
>
>
>Just curious Charlie, what problem does this create that makes it unacceptable?
>
>
>Randy
>
>
>F1 Rocket
>
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
>
> I just *hate* it when this happens.
>
> #2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
> circuit on the data sheet you can't tie the power supply ground to
> the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
> isolated battery to power it.
>
> I'll keep looking.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XP Power Supply noise |
>Bob ...I wired an XM Delphi SKYFi received into my RV6. When I fired up
the
>avionics for the 1st time last week there was a high pitched noise on the
>circuit. After considerable time I chased it down to the XM 12volt auto
>converter for the SKYFi!
David
Try these guys too!
http://www.xmfan.com/
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> crowbar module |
| Subject: | Re: Feedback for Bob - Roll your own |
crowbar module
crowbar module
Ralph, did you pick up on the posing I made for an expansion of
the DIY crowbar module to include a how-it-works and troubleshooting
section at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
Hi all,
I am considering adding a digital voltmeter to my panel. What is/are the
best place/s to hook up a voltmeter to in order to have the most useful
information? (Battery, Main Bus, etc.)
Thanks
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Volmeter hookup |
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am considering adding a digital voltmeter to my panel. What is/are the
>best place/s to hook up a voltmeter to in order to have the most useful
>information? (Battery, Main Bus, etc.)
I'd run it on the e-bus. This allows the voltmeter to be the "gas gage"
for the battery under alternator-out operations. Under normal operations
you'll read 0.6 to 1.0 volts below bus voltage. Closing the e-bus alternate
feed switch during preflight will cause the reading to rise to battery
voltage which will verify the alternate feed path and show that the diode
is not shorted.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Letempt, Jeffrey CW4" <jeffrey.letempt(at)us.army.mil> |
I have a Narco Escort II NAV/COM radio in my new Dragonfly. A friend of
mine has the same radio in his Q1 and based on his experience he made a
recommendation. He told me his radio died once and the Narco dealer
returned it to Narco for repair. It ended up being a blown internal fuse
that cost him $168 to have replaced. After it was replaced it blew the fuse
again (it may have lasted a few years I do not know). This time he repaired
it himself and Narco recommended that he install a big capicator across the
power leads which he installed and has had no problems at all.
He told me his capicator is a Mallory TC 10501 500uF 100VDC
I have not had any luck finding this device. I would assume a wide variety
of capicators would work, but selecting one is way out of my area. Could
you please recommend a suitable capicator for this application?
Thanks in advance for your assistance!!
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
This one should work: 560uF @ 100V
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=9306&Row=116090
&Site=US
Regards,
Trampas Stern
Stern Technologies
4321 Waterwheel Dr
Raleigh NC 27606
919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
919-832-8441 (fax)
www.sterntech.com
tstern(at)sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Letempt,
Jeffrey CW4
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Capicator
I have a Narco Escort II NAV/COM radio in my new Dragonfly. A friend of
mine has the same radio in his Q1 and based on his experience he made a
recommendation. He told me his radio died once and the Narco dealer
returned it to Narco for repair. It ended up being a blown internal fuse
that cost him $168 to have replaced. After it was replaced it blew the fuse
again (it may have lasted a few years I do not know). This time he repaired
it himself and Narco recommended that he install a big capicator across the
power leads which he installed and has had no problems at all.
He told me his capicator is a Mallory TC 10501 500uF 100VDC
I have not had any luck finding this device. I would assume a wide variety
of capicators would work, but selecting one is way out of my area. Could
you please recommend a suitable capicator for this application?
Thanks in advance for your assistance!!
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
| Subject: | Re: Volmeter hookup |
Thanks, Bob.
As it is with most questions answering one brings a an avalanche of add-ons
:) , sorry
I assume you are referring to a circuit similar to Rotax 912/915 as shown
on pg. Z-15 (BTW I just got your book, it's very usefull), where
e-bus = essential bus, separate from the main bus, fed via Diode from main
bus or, alternatively, directly from the battery.
The "0.6 to 1.0 volts below bus voltage" is the V-drop on the diode, right?
What is the purpose of the diode?
Does a C-172 circuit contain the same elements (e-bus, main bus, diode)?
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 04:45 PM
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am considering adding a digital voltmeter to my panel. What is/are the
>best place/s to hook up a voltmeter to in order to have the most useful
>information? (Battery, Main Bus, etc.)
I'd run it on the e-bus. This allows the voltmeter to be the "gas gage"
for the battery under alternator-out operations. Under normal operations
you'll read 0.6 to 1.0 volts below bus voltage. Closing the e-bus alternate
feed switch during preflight will cause the reading to rise to battery
voltage which will verify the alternate feed path and show that the diode
is not shorted.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net> |
I am getting ready to begin the wiring on our RV7 and do not completely
understand grounds. As of this date I have heard of 3 types:
1. Airframe which I think I understand.
2. (and here is where the confusion comes in) Avionics ground....is this
isolated from the airframe?
3. Battery ground...is this different from the Airframe ground and the
Avionics ground?
I believe the Battery ground and Avionics ground are one in the same but not
sure. Can anyone clear up this subject for me.....Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
The battery ground is the negative terminal on the battery (or some point
very
close to the battery). The avionics ground is the where the negative
leads from
all of the different avionics devices are connected together. The
airframe ground
is anywhere the conductive material of the airframe (aluminum, mostly; steel
sometimes) is used to conduct current from the negative terminal of a
component
to the battery. Airframe ground refers more to using the airframe as
conductor
than it does to a specific poin on the airplane.
It is best practice to have all devices to ground to 'single point' in the
system, preferably
at a point which has a very low resistance connection to the negative
terminal on
the battery. A 'single point' can be a single bolt, or a ground bus which
may have a
bunch of tab connectors on it. Doing so is provides increased chances for
a trouble
free system.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> I am getting ready to begin the wiring on our RV7 and do not completely
> understand grounds. As of this date I have heard of 3 types:
>
> 1. Airframe which I think I understand.
> 2. (and here is where the confusion comes in) Avionics ground....is this
> isolated from the airframe?
> 3. Battery ground...is this different from the Airframe ground and the
> Avionics ground?
>
> I believe the Battery ground and Avionics ground are one in the same but
> not sure. Can anyone clear up this subject for me.....Thanks!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>I am getting ready to begin the wiring on our RV7 and do not completely
>understand grounds. As of this date I have heard of 3 types:
>
>1. Airframe which I think I understand.
>2. (and here is where the confusion comes in) Avionics ground....is this
>isolated from the airframe?
>3. Battery ground...is this different from the Airframe ground and the
>Avionics ground?
>
>I believe the Battery ground and Avionics ground are one in the same but not
>sure. Can anyone clear up this subject for me.....Thanks!
Is this purely an academic question or are you working on a particular
airplane? If a particular airplane, what kind and where do you want
to install your battery?
You might review the ground architecture drawings in Appendix Z to
the AeroElectric Connection which you can download from:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Check out figure Z-15 (two sheets).
In general, airframe grounds are made to any convenient metallic
structure. Recommend you limit real airframe grounding to remotely
mounted, non-victim/non-antagonist products like landing lights,
nav lights, pitot heaters, etc. Figure Z-15 will show a firewall
mounted, single point ground where all other things can come together
to avoid introduction of noises into potential victim systems
by potential antagonist systems. The single point firewall ground
eliminates potential for any and all "ground loops".
Power distribution diagrams published in appendix-z use the convention
G1 = crankcase ground, G2 = firewall ground (fwd), G3 = firewall ground
(aft side) and LCL for local airframe ground were applicable.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Berend Ages" <Berend42(at)cox.net> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/06/04 |
In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:59:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> >I am considering adding a digital voltmeter to my panel. What is/are the
> >best place/s to hook up a voltmeter to in order to have the most useful
> >information? (Battery, Main Bus, etc.)
>
> I'd run it on the e-bus. This allows the voltmeter to be the "gas gage"
> for the battery under alternator-out operations. Under normal operations
> you'll read 0.6 to 1.0 volts below bus voltage. Closing the e-bus alternate
> feed switch during preflight will cause the reading to rise to battery
> voltage which will verify the alternate feed path and show that the diode
> is not shorted.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob,
How about reading from numerous locations with a selector switch? I'd like
to read volts and amps from several locations such as battery 1, battery 2,
alternator 1, alternator 2, main bus, ess bus, etc. Can I assume that is not
terrible difficult to do?
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Checking Voltage |
In a message dated 7/9/04 8:06:35 PM Central Daylight Time, Speedy11(at)aol.com
writes:
Bob,
How about reading from numerous locations with a selector switch? I'd like
to read volts and amps from several locations such as battery 1, battery 2,
alternator 1, alternator 2, main bus, ess bus, etc. Can I assume that is
not
terrible difficult to do?
Stan Sutterfield
Good Evening Stan,
This is a different Bob!
Unless you have a diode in the circuit that will drop the voltage, or some
other method of isolating the system to be checked from the rest of the
system, it should read the same everywhere.
I suppose there could be some trouble shooting capability by using pick ups
at various points around the system. However, as long as the wiring is
properly done and in good condition, all voltages will read the same.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Beware of files sent by rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net. Two different files
> sent to me by this source contained viruses.
I have received viruses (worms really) from several different "legitimate" sources
on the various Matronics mailing lists. My supposition is that one or more
people have machines that are are infected with the new breed of "super snooper"
worms (no, I did not make up that name) which collect email address. The
mail probably doesn't even come from the email address you identify.
The best thing you can do to combat this is to make sure you have a good anti-virus
program running on your computer and keep it up-to-date. This is no longer
a luxury but a necessity.
On a related note, you probably want to get an anti-spyware program too. The best
one, Spybot Search & Destroy, is free and available from:
http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
>>On a related note, you probably want to get an anti-spyware program too.
The best one, Spybot Search & Destroy, is free and available from:
http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html<<
((((((((()))))))))))
Before doing this, you might want to check out some comments from others.
See this:
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1043809773/1
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Virus alert
>
> j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
> >
> > Beware of files sent by rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net. Two different files
> > sent to me by this source contained viruses.
>
> I have received viruses (worms really) from several different "legitimate"
sources on the various Matronics mailing lists. My supposition is that one
or more people have machines that are are infected with the new breed of
"super snooper" worms (no, I did not make up that name) which collect email
address. The mail probably doesn't even come from the email address you
identify.
>
> The best thing you can do to combat this is to make sure you have a good
anti-virus program running on your computer and keep it up-to-date. This is
no longer a luxury but a necessity.
>
> On a related note, you probably want to get an anti-spyware program too.
The best one, Spybot Search & Destroy, is free and available from:
>
> http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Thanks Bob. I will review appendix Z and I just ordered your book
>AeroConnection 10th Edition.
>
>As I mentioned we are building an RV7. This is our second project, the
>first was a Thorp-T18.
>
Very good. If your battery goes on firewall, then I'd
recommend a single point ground kit on firewall. See
various sizes offered at:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
(these will be down from the top of the page)
Run battery (-) cable to big brass bolt. Run crankcase
ground strap to big brass bolt. Remove any bonding
jumpers across the engine mount shock biscuits. Run
grounds for all panel mounted items to ground block.
Ground landing lights, taxi lights, nav lights,
pitot heaters and strobe power supplies locally to
airframe. Antennas are only other appliances that
may ground to airframe (follow manufacturer's installation
instructions).
In a two-paragraph nutshell, this is a description of
a grounding philosophy with a high probability of
zero noise difficulties.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
Regarding the virus alert mentioned by Brian Lloyd;
I've found no better Anti-Virus program than the F_R_E_E
Personal Edition of AVG from Grisoft. Use the link below
& find the F_R_E_E download of the Personal Edition:
http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php
I've used both Norton & McAfee & a couple others, but,
this program has always scored higher & found more of
the problems & protected my machine better than any other.
(Even used the one from CA before they went commercial)
Plus, it is T_O_T_A_L_L_Y F_R_E_E.
Highly recommended.
George
P.S.: I also use Spybot Search & Destroy 'cause it works.!
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
Thank you for that. I had AdAware on my system, but was getting horrible
problems just trying to boot up. I downloaded Spybot at your suggestion,
it removed 734 pieces of spyware. Now I can put off buying a new computer!!
At 04:11 AM 7/10/04, you wrote:
>
>
> >>On a related note, you probably want to get an anti-spyware program too.
>The best one, Spybot Search & Destroy, is free and available from:
>
>http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html<<
>
>((((((((()))))))))))
>Before doing this, you might want to check out some comments from others.
>See this:
>http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1043809773/1
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Virus alert
>
>
> >
> > j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Beware of files sent by rv6capt(at)pacificcoast.net. Two different files
> > > sent to me by this source contained viruses.
> >
> > I have received viruses (worms really) from several different "legitimate"
>sources on the various Matronics mailing lists. My supposition is that one
>or more people have machines that are are infected with the new breed of
>"super snooper" worms (no, I did not make up that name) which collect email
>address. The mail probably doesn't even come from the email address you
>identify.
> >
> > The best thing you can do to combat this is to make sure you have a good
>anti-virus program running on your computer and keep it up-to-date. This is
>no longer a luxury but a necessity.
> >
> > On a related note, you probably want to get an anti-spyware program too.
>The best one, Spybot Search & Destroy, is free and available from:
> >
> > http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> > brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> > http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> > +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >
> > There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> > A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/09/04 |
In a message dated 7/10/2004 2:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
How about reading from numerous locations with a selector switch? I'd like
to read volts and amps from several locations such as battery 1, battery 2,
alternator 1, alternator 2, main bus, ess bus, etc. Can I assume that is
not terribly difficult to do?
Stan Sutterfield
Good Evening Stan,
This is a different Bob!
Unless you have a diode in the circuit that will drop the voltage, or some
other method of isolating the system to be checked from the rest of the
system, it should read the same everywhere.
I suppose there could be some trouble shooting capability by using pick ups
at various points around the system. However, as long as the wiring is
properly done and in good condition, all voltages will read the same.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Different Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to build a whiz
bang commercial jet, but in the commercial jets we can select various points
in the electrical system such as generator 1, generator 2, APU generator,
battery, battery bus, standby bus, etc., and each selection indicates what the
volts/amps are at that particular point. For example, one can select generator
1
and read the output - I guess much like a meter I might use in my shop to
check electricity. It seems as though such a setup could be useful for
troubleshooting and for general monitoring of the system. How does one "sample"
the
electricity at several locations?
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/09/04 |
In a message dated 7/10/04 12:49:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
I guess much like a meter I might use in my shop to
check electricity. It seems as though such a setup could be useful for
troubleshooting and for general monitoring of the system. How does one
"sample" the
electricity at several locations?
Good Afternoon Stan,
I think you will find that it is relatively easy to wire up a load meter to
check the voltage and current flow from various sources, but you can only
check voltage when the sources of voltage are isolated. Not sure what kind of
Commercial Jets you are flying, but all the ones I flew required that we
isolate the systems to be able to check available voltage. As long as they are
all
hooked to the system, all voltages will be the same other than for those
cases where an intentional voltage dropping device is built into the system.
However, the ammeter will show the loads that each source is putting out or
receiving as the case may be.
Somewhere in the recesses of my ancient mind, I do recall that the 737 had
"break before make" switches so that various systems could be isolated. Most
other commercial aircraft I flew fed everything to the same primary busses and
that made them all read the voltage of the highest voltage source. Remember
all the paralleling problems on the 707/720 and 727?
I suppose as long as you kept one side isolated from the other, the voltage
could be checked. Seems like there was some of that capability on a few of
the other jet transports I flew. It's been a while!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: V-meter Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - |
07/06/04
Stan
This isn't Bob either, I posted the original question.
Re. V-metering
I will be doing exactly what you are asking, I am now looking for a
reliable small multipe position switch to read V from different locations
(locations with normal V and with V drop).
Re. the ammeter part, you'd have either to move the shunt to where your
reading would be (not a practical idea) or to have various shunts where you
want to read and to move the V-meter from shunt to shunt to read Amps.
Regards
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Speedy11(at)aol.com; Date: 09:04 PM 7/9/2004
EDT)
In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:59:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> >I am considering adding a digital voltmeter to my panel. What is/are the
> >best place/s to hook up a voltmeter to in order to have the most useful
> >information? (Battery, Main Bus, etc.)
>
> I'd run it on the e-bus. This allows the voltmeter to be the "gas gage"
> for the battery under alternator-out operations. Under normal operations
> you'll read 0.6 to 1.0 volts below bus voltage. Closing the e-bus alternate
> feed switch during preflight will cause the reading to rise to battery
> voltage which will verify the alternate feed path and show that the diode
> is not shorted.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Bob,
How about reading from numerous locations with a selector switch? I'd like
to read volts and amps from several locations such as battery 1, battery 2,
alternator 1, alternator 2, main bus, ess bus, etc. Can I assume that is not
terrible difficult to do?
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Narco indicator to-from is backwards?? |
Hi all,
I installed a Narco VOR unit in my RV6a. Model is Nav 824 and the
indicator is an ID-824. Cable I made up is pretty simple.
All works fine except TO - FROM flag triangle is backwards. If I am south
of the station and I set the indicator on 360, the triangle points down.
Backwards. I can't even see how wiring it wrong could cause this effect.
But what could?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/09/04 |
Stan,
I ended up putting a shunt in the line from the alternator to the
starter contactor and another in the line from the essential bus switch
to the essential bus. I put a shunt switch between both of those and
the E I volt/amp meter.
Overkill..... probably, but I can tell how hard the alternator is
working, and also how fast I'm pulling down the battery, if the
alternator quits. I have a B & C alternator, so that will probably
never happen, but I just like a lot of numbers to look at. If you are
interested, I can send you a thoroughly confusing diagram of what I
ended up with.
Joel Harding #80004
Closing in on the big event.
On Jul 10, 2004, at 11:48 AM, Speedy11(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2004 2:56:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> How about reading from numerous locations with a selector switch?
> I'd like
> to read volts and amps from several locations such as battery 1,
> battery 2,
> alternator 1, alternator 2, main bus, ess bus, etc. Can I assume
> that is
> not terribly difficult to do?
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> Good Evening Stan,
>
> This is a different Bob!
>
> Unless you have a diode in the circuit that will drop the voltage, or
> some
> other method of isolating the system to be checked from the rest of the
> system, it should read the same everywhere.
>
> I suppose there could be some trouble shooting capability by using
> pick ups
> at various points around the system. However, as long as the wiring is
> properly done and in good condition, all voltages will read the same.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> Different Bob,
> Thanks for your reply. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to build
> a whiz
> bang commercial jet, but in the commercial jets we can select various
> points
> in the electrical system such as generator 1, generator 2, APU
> generator,
> battery, battery bus, standby bus, etc., and each selection indicates
> what the
> volts/amps are at that particular point. For example, one can select
> generator 1
> and read the output - I guess much like a meter I might use in my shop
> to
> check electricity. It seems as though such a setup could be useful for
> troubleshooting and for general monitoring of the system. How does
> one "sample" the
> electricity at several locations?
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david caswell <davidbcaswell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics master switch |
I'm in process of putting together electrics for an RV-7. I'm using the "Z-11"
schematic.
My concerns are two:
1) I'm accustomed to flying conventional planes with an Avionics Master that
is required to be turned off when starting the motor. I don't see any provision
for that in the schematic. I'm using a starter button and it seems that
the avionics would be on when the engine is being cranked. Is this a problem?
2) On the essential bus, (in the event of alternator failure) I would like
to include the engine instruments with a switch to allow me to turn them on
and off so that I can monitor them periodically. Is that possible, and if so,
what is the best way to do that?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Voltage cruising |
"""
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs -
07/09/04
In a message dated 7/10/04 12:49:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
I guess much like a meter I might use in my shop to check electricity. It
seems as though such a setup could be useful for troubleshooting and for
general monitoring of the system. How does one "sample" the electricity at
several locations?
Good Afternoon Stan,
I think you will find that it is relatively easy to wire up a load meter to
check the voltage and current flow from various sources, but you can only
check voltage when the sources of voltage are isolated. Not sure what kind
of Commercial Jets you are flying, but all the ones I flew required that we
isolate the systems to be able to check available voltage. As long as they
are all hooked to the system, all voltages will be the same other than for
those cases where an intentional voltage dropping device is built into the
system.
However, the ammeter will show the loads that each source is putting out or
receiving as the case may be.
Somewhere in the recesses of my ancient mind, I do recall that the 737 had
"break before make" switches so that various systems could be isolated.
Most
other commercial aircraft I flew fed everything to the same primary busses
and
that made them all read the voltage of the highest voltage source. Remember
all the paralleling problems on the 707/720 and 727?
I suppose as long as you kept one side isolated from the other, the voltage
could be checked. Seems like there was some of that capability on a few of
the other jet transports I flew. It's been a while!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator"""
Cheers,
....am in full accord with 'Old Bob' on the topic, with the
proviso that my experience (DC3 - L1011) was that little was learned from
gauging voltage throughout the system unless:
[1] You knew all recesses of the circuitry intimately (I never could);
[2] There was a reason to plumb these corners (we read them all into the
log every hour on the Connie, and who would ever find time to read twenty
logs a day), i.e: it was forensic, and
[3] We only learned something during an electrical fire when chasing up
an electrical circuit helped eliminate the cause. Old Bob will confirm we
spent hours practising turning everything off and then back on, one unit at
a time or words to that effect. .......never found one cause that way
because the stink gave away the cause minutes earlier - that's experience
from four fires enroute, and usually halfway across some ocean or other.
Does a relatively simple homebuilt call for such dedication?
maybe.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics master switch |
In a message dated 07/11/2004 11:03:34 AM Central Standard Time,
davidbcaswell(at)yahoo.com writes:
1) I'm accustomed to flying conventional planes with an Avionics Master
that is required to be turned off when starting the motor. I don't see any
provision for that in the schematic. I'm using a starter button and it seems
that the avionics would be on when the engine is being cranked. Is this a
problem?
Welcome, David!
You must be a recent subscriber as this issue has been discussed ad nauseum
since the inception of the Aeroelectric list, but the short answer is that if
you install typical avionics, they are normally built to a standard which
should make voltage transients encountered during engine cranking a non-event,
even
though many manufacturers of these goodies will tell you otherwise in their
documentation. If you (or the manufacturer) are nervous about having the
device energized during engine cranking, simply use the power switch on the device
to delay its power-up until after the fan is happily turning. Per Microair's
instructions, I leave my comm and xpndr off until engine start as reflected on
my checklists, but my engine instrumentation (EIS) is wired direct (blessed
by Grand Rapids) . The whole philosophy here is to KISS and use the absolute
minimum components necessary to make the bells ring and whistles blow. Not
having a separate avionics bus helps achieve this. (p.s.- you AREN'T building
a
conventional airplane, so why do it that way? The fact you are here proves you
think you can do better!!)
2) On the essential bus, (in the event of alternator failure) I would
like to include the engine instruments with a switch to allow me to turn them
on and off so that I can monitor them periodically. Is that possible, and if
so, what is the best way to do that?
Normally engine instrumentation is pretty low-draw stuff. The whole trick to
E-bus usage is to determine the maximum current needed by whatever you want
on it (preferably important stuff like engine instruments!) and size your
battery accordingly. For example, I have my comm, xpndr, engine monitor, EFIS
system (PCFlight Systems + power to 2 PDAs), fuel pump and annunciator- nothing
here sucks much amps but the comm when transmitting or the fuel pump, neither of
which should be needed much in the event of alternator failure- which is the
main reason you HAVE an E-bus. My RV-6A has one of them itty-bitty Panasonic
20Ah RG batts, and if the engine cranks and runs long enough to recharge it,
(40 amp B&C alternator monitored by Bobs LVWM) I can fly until bingo gas with
no sweat, which is the whole idea.
You could entertain yourself for daze on end researching this stuff in the
archives, or just take Bob's book to heart (you HAVE read the Aeroelectric
Connection, haven't you?) and build a perfectly useful, rediculously reliable
electric system under his directions. Or build it like the spam folks do and live
with that. One signature of Nuckolls (paraphrased) says "If you always do
what you always done, you'll always be what you've always been". Gee, I just
love that line! 8-)
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - N51PW, 80+ giggling hours & a starter button on my Z-11!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
Bob ...
Checked my XM installation today. Separate ground, but a shared power run
with the headsets. The XM power supply is truly the culprit of the
high-pitched noise in the headphones. Any idea where I can get a "quiet' 6
volt power supply? I need 12 volts in and 6 out.
Otherwise the aircraft is quiet as a stone. Running all those 'home-run'
grounds worked just as advertised!!
Regards,
David
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounds
>
>I am getting ready to begin the wiring on our RV7 and do not completely
>understand grounds. As of this date I have heard of 3 types:
>
>1. Airframe which I think I understand.
>2. (and here is where the confusion comes in) Avionics ground....is this
>isolated from the airframe?
>3. Battery ground...is this different from the Airframe ground and the
>Avionics ground?
>
>I believe the Battery ground and Avionics ground are one in the same but
not
>sure. Can anyone clear up this subject for me.....Thanks!
Is this purely an academic question or are you working on a particular
airplane? If a particular airplane, what kind and where do you want
to install your battery?
You might review the ground architecture drawings in Appendix Z to
the AeroElectric Connection which you can download from:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Check out figure Z-15 (two sheets).
In general, airframe grounds are made to any convenient metallic
structure. Recommend you limit real airframe grounding to remotely
mounted, non-victim/non-antagonist products like landing lights,
nav lights, pitot heaters, etc. Figure Z-15 will show a firewall
mounted, single point ground where all other things can come together
to avoid introduction of noises into potential victim systems
by potential antagonist systems. The single point firewall ground
eliminates potential for any and all "ground loops".
Power distribution diagrams published in appendix-z use the convention
G1 = crankcase ground, G2 = firewall ground (fwd), G3 = firewall ground
(aft side) and LCL for local airframe ground were applicable.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Dennis Johnson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Dennis Johnson
Subject: Revised Starter/Mag Switches
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pinetownd@volcano.net.07.11.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Load Dump report status. |
We are in the last stages of the report.
What started out to be a simple test of alternator load dump has turned out
to be a huge time sink for us. One estimated week has expanded into over
three months.
In building the test simulator it was decided to use a simplified test
circuit that contained the essentials of a basic aircraft electrical system
using parts likely to be used by many builders. Contactors from Wicks or
ACFT Spruce etc. Bob's OVP per "the do it your self version", both the
popular Panasonic Type 12v 18 ah battery as well as the Odyssey PC625 that
were lying around and not to be used in flight.
There were problems from the start that needed to be sorted out before the
initial Alternator load dumps could be characterized.
While load dump is well known its surprising how different it's defined,
based on who is defining it. There is a factor of ten in the magnitude of
the dump pulse in the different literature.
Thanks to Bob, we have a copy of DO-160 to review and apply to our testing.
Perhaps surprising there are short comings in this document.
We also decided that to only point out designs or devices that did not meet
our expectations was not enough. We decided that an a solution needed to be
designed and tested so anyone wanting to follow the test results and
suggested changes could have a really available alternative solution.
There were no "grounding before next flight" problems discovered but there
are some design changes suggested to improve the reliability of the
electrical system.
We have dozens of tests and several hundred scope pictures etc to sort thru
to provide all the needed documentation to understand the tests and the test
results. This report in being written in a format that is intended to reduce
the electronics background needed to understand the test and test results.
The tests and test results are presented as facts and have been repeatable
over the entire duration of the testing process from start to some done
today.
Comments about the significance of the test results are informed opinion, as
are the recommended solutions. We will limit solutions to one or more
readily available ones and not leave a problem without a solution. The main
reason for the test duration is the need to design and test a solution to a
problem.
Clearly all aircraft electrical needs are different from say an VFR non
electric engine to an IFR electrically dependent engine. The specific design
of these systems is beyond the scope of this effort. There is a common core
of any system consisting of the alternator, main bus, and battery and that
is what we limited the study to.
The report will be posted on the web shortly after the end of OSH 2004. I
plan to make the trip there as do others on the list and we want to be
around to reply to comments on the report.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Dump report status. |
Great to hear, Paul. Looking forward to the results of all your work.
Undoubtedly will enhance the safety factor for those of use who fly
"all-electric" aircraft.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Load Dump report status.
>
> We are in the last stages of the report.
>
> What started out to be a simple test of alternator load dump has turned
out
> to be a huge time sink for us. One estimated week has expanded into over
> three months.
>
> In building the test simulator it was decided to use a simplified test
> circuit that contained the essentials of a basic aircraft electrical
system
> using parts likely to be used by many builders. Contactors from Wicks or
> ACFT Spruce etc. Bob's OVP per "the do it your self version", both the
> popular Panasonic Type 12v 18 ah battery as well as the Odyssey PC625 that
> were lying around and not to be used in flight.
>
> There were problems from the start that needed to be sorted out before the
> initial Alternator load dumps could be characterized.
>
> While load dump is well known its surprising how different it's defined,
> based on who is defining it. There is a factor of ten in the magnitude of
> the dump pulse in the different literature.
>
> Thanks to Bob, we have a copy of DO-160 to review and apply to our
testing.
> Perhaps surprising there are short comings in this document.
>
> We also decided that to only point out designs or devices that did not
meet
> our expectations was not enough. We decided that an a solution needed to
be
> designed and tested so anyone wanting to follow the test results and
> suggested changes could have a really available alternative solution.
>
> There were no "grounding before next flight" problems discovered but there
> are some design changes suggested to improve the reliability of the
> electrical system.
>
> We have dozens of tests and several hundred scope pictures etc to sort
thru
> to provide all the needed documentation to understand the tests and the
test
> results. This report in being written in a format that is intended to
reduce
> the electronics background needed to understand the test and test results.
>
> The tests and test results are presented as facts and have been repeatable
> over the entire duration of the testing process from start to some done
> today.
>
> Comments about the significance of the test results are informed opinion,
as
> are the recommended solutions. We will limit solutions to one or more
> readily available ones and not leave a problem without a solution. The
main
> reason for the test duration is the need to design and test a solution to
a
> problem.
>
> Clearly all aircraft electrical needs are different from say an VFR non
> electric engine to an IFR electrically dependent engine. The specific
design
> of these systems is beyond the scope of this effort. There is a common
core
> of any system consisting of the alternator, main bus, and battery and that
> is what we limited the study to.
>
> The report will be posted on the web shortly after the end of OSH 2004. I
> plan to make the trip there as do others on the list and we want to be
> around to reply to comments on the report.
>
> Paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Narco indicator to-from is backwards?? |
Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I installed a Narco VOR unit in my RV6a. Model is Nav 824 and the
> indicator is an ID-824. Cable I made up is pretty simple.
>
> All works fine except TO - FROM flag triangle is backwards. If I am south
> of the station and I set the indicator on 360, the triangle points down.
> Backwards. I can't even see how wiring it wrong could cause this effect.
>
> But what could?
Verify the following wiring:
NAV-824 P103 ID-824 Signal
(pin ID) (pin ID)
5---------------5 + From flag
K---------------6 + Right CDI
3,6-------------7 + To flag, +Left CDI (+8v reference)
D---------------1 Sin/Cos pot 1 (OBS)
E---------------2 Sin/Cos pot 2 (OBS)
F---------------3 Sin/Cos pot 3 (OBS)
H---------------4 Sin/Cos pot 4 (OBS)
1--.
| ID-824/825 enable
4--'
Note 1: make sure there is no jumper between pins 10 and 12 of P103 on the NAV-824.
Note 2: you can use either pin 3 or pin 6 on P103 to provide the +8V ref for the
ID-824.
Since the meter movement for the CDI and for the TO/From flag share a common, it
strikes me as unlikely that one could be reversed while the other indicates
correctly. This leads me to wonder if the OBS resolver pot is wired backwards
or if the 30 Hz reference phase inside the receiver is reversed. The result
of that would be reversed to/from flag behavior. (I forget whether that would
reverse the sense of the CDI too.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounds - XM |
| From: | Bob Bittner <rbittner(at)us.ibm.com> |
07/12/2004 09:27:36 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/12/2004 09:27:36 AM
A friend of mine who just installed an XM receiver had similar noise
issues, including messing with GPS reception. A phone call to XM
discovered they have an updated, better-shielded unit. They agreed to
replace his. Give 'em a call.
---------------------------------------------- >+
Bob Bittner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Photo Share Available! |
| Subject: | Re: [ Dennis Johnson ] : New Email List |
Photo Share Available!
Photo Share Available!
>
>
>
>A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Dennis Johnson
>
>
> Subject: Revised Starter/Mag Switches
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pinetownd@volcano.net.07.11.2004/index.html
Dennis, I can't get this file to download from Matronics. Matt
may have filters to prevent anything but known picture formats from
being published there and you appear to have posted an AutoCAD .dwg
file. Mail a copy directly to me at mailto:rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | Odyssey battery terminal size |
I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I searched and could not find
anything.
The terminals on my Odyssey battery take a 6mm diameter (about 0.233inch)
stainless steel bolt. Actually it came with stainless steel allen head
screws, with a notice to torque to 50 inch pounds. My contactors and
starter have 5/16" (.312inch) terminals. If I recall, the starter could
pull up to 200A.
Any problems with the smaller diameter terminals?
Is it a good idea to replace my 5/16" (hole) battery cable terminals with
ones to fit the 6mm terminal bolts, or is there a special reducing washer to
use in case I need to replace a battery in the field with one that uses
5/16" bolts? (I can make brass reducing washers on my lathe).
If I replace the terminal allen head screws with hex head bolts for
maintenance convenience, is there a minimum tensile strength bolt I should
specify?
Should I use lock washers in addition to the flat washers?
Sorry to be so anal, but after careful design of a dual alternator system, I
don't want to have a weak link.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric Compass |
Hi All,
I bought in a garage sale Electric Compass manufactured by aircraft
inst. & development Inc. from Wichita Kansas.
Part number 17-111.
This compass has 4 leads coming into it with markings A, B, C, and D.
Any information on this product and what it expect to see on each lead
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [ Dennis Johnson ] : New Email List Photo |
Share Available!
It worked fine for me and, yes, it is an AutoCAD file.
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Photo Share Available!
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>>
>> Poster: Dennis Johnson
>>
>>
>> Subject: Revised Starter/Mag Switches
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pinetownd@volcano.net.07.11.2004/index.html
>>
>>
>
> Dennis, I can't get this file to download from Matronics. Matt
> may have filters to prevent anything but known picture formats from
> being published there and you appear to have posted an AutoCAD .dwg
> file. Mail a copy directly to me at mailto:rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Avionics Master Switch |
Dave, I support Mark's response to your questioning the need for an avionics
master switch. Lots in the archives if you care to look. I too am use to an
avionics master switch, so I put my radios on my essential bus and put a
switch on my essential bus (labled it avionics) which gets turned on after engine
startup. Was that necessary? I don't know. Yes, it is another failure point,
but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
Pete
RV-6
Clearwater, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hot battery contactor |
Good afternoon all.
I am installing the instrument panel in my CH-701 and
am testing the various components. The first thing I
hooked up was the battery contactor so I would have
12v to the fuse blocks and then test each component
separately. After about ten minutes I noticed that
the contactor was so hot that I couldn't touch it for
more than a second. I was wondering if this in
normal?
My only experience with battery contactors has been
in certified aircraft, with the contactor in the back
with the battery. Out of sight out of mind, don't
know if they were running hot or not.
Thanks for your help.
Mark S.
CH-701/Rotax 912uls
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Evenson" <revenson(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | splicing strobe wire |
My Whelen strobe wire is 3 (actually 4) wire shielded type. It has three #18 wires
wrapped with a thin alum foil like paper, then outside this is a bare wire.
This is all sheathed with a plastic (tetzel?) type covering.
What's the proper way to splice this kind of wire? More specifically, is there
any harm in wrapping the spliced joint with a separate piece of this 'alum foil'?
In other words, does the 'foil' need to be one continuous piece to do it's
shielding job?
Roger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hot battery contactor |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
You might verify that you have a battery contactor and not
a starter contactor. The coil winding resistance is much higher
for the battery contactor, and the power dissipation is consequently
much lower - allowing continuous service. It seems like I
have read where the starter contactor coil resistance is in the
range of 2ohms (6A/72W), and the battery relays are around
15ohms (~1A/12W).
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Good afternoon all.
>
> I am installing the instrument panel in my CH-701 and
> am testing the various components. The first thing I
> hooked up was the battery contactor so I would have
> 12v to the fuse blocks and then test each component
> separately. After about ten minutes I noticed that
> the contactor was so hot that I couldn't touch it for
> more than a second. I was wondering if this in
> normal?
>
> My only experience with battery contactors has been
> in certified aircraft, with the contactor in the back
> with the battery. Out of sight out of mind, don't
> know if they were running hot or not.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Mark S.
> CH-701/Rotax 912uls
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: splicing strobe wire |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I don't think there is any benefit to adding a piece of foil to
the joint. Just splice the drain wire (that outer conductor) and
you should be in good shape. The frequencies associated
with the strobe system don't warrant anything more sophisticated
than that - especiall if the exposed section of wire is relatively
short (maybe less than 1"). The shielded wire is not a tightly
controlled impedance environment where the shielding would
be critical.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> My Whelen strobe wire is 3 (actually 4) wire shielded type. It has
> three #18 wires wrapped with a thin alum foil like paper, then outside
> this is a bare wire. This is all sheathed with a plastic (tetzel?) type
> covering.
>
> What's the proper way to splice this kind of wire? More specifically,
> is there any harm in wrapping the spliced joint with a separate piece of
> this 'alum foil'? In other words, does the 'foil' need to be one
> continuous piece to do it's shielding job?
>
> Roger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Another Starter Switch Scheme |
Greetings,
I've posted an AutoCAD LT 97 file at:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pinetownd@volcano.net.07.11.2004/index.html
that shows a starter switch scheme I'm considering for my project. The idea is
to have a separate 2-5 toggle switch (Off-On-(Start)) for each magneto. The
12 volt power for the starter contactor coil comes from the main bus into the
right mag switch and then to the left mag switch so that when both toggle switches
are held in the top position, three things happen:
1. The right, non-impulse, magneto is grounded.
2. The left, impulse, magneto is not grounded.
3. The starter contactor closes because the coil is energized and the starter
engages.
This is a modification of Z-11. It seems to me to provide the benefit of eliminating
the need for a pushbutton starter switch. It also seems to provide the
same benefit; namely, disabling the right mag during start.
Any comments?
Additional info:
Lancair Legacy, all carbon fiber aircraft.
Magneto ignition; standard right mag and impulse coupled left mag.
Z-13, all electric airplane on a budget.
Two alternators, single battery.
By the way, I'd like to give Bob another thanks for his valuable contributions
to the OBAM community. I've studied the 'Connection and attended the Watsonville
seminar and both were extremely valuable. Combined with this newsgroup, I
can't fail!
Best,
Dennis Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Compass |
Hi, David - sounds like you may be the new owner of a 'flux gate', or a
repeater compass remote sensor.
The terminal labelling seems familiar.
Is it a little bowl shaped unit a few inches across with the terminals on
the flat side? Does it have mounting holes that allow the unit to be
'turned' in its orientation a few degrees?
If yes to these questions, you may need to find out what compass system
it was from and buy the rest of the bits to make it work.
Slaved compass systems are typically an external gyro, very often part of
an HSI system, which is corrected for precession by reference to earth's
magnetic. The device you have sounds like the sensor for the earth's
magnetism.
There were also remote compass units in early aviation, without gyros -
a 400Hz synchro system would transfer the heading from the unit to the
panel mounted indicator. They flung themselves around like a whisky
compass does, being only slightly stabler.
What other junk did you buy?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | Hot battery contactor |
Hi, Mark - sounds like the contactor is not designed for constant duty.
Perhaps a starter contactor, which I believe are rated for a lower
hold-in voltage and intermittent use.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 07/11/04 |
In a message dated 7/12/2004 2:59:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Checked my XM installation today. Separate ground, but a shared power run
with the headsets. The XM power supply is truly the culprit of the
high-pitched noise in the headphones. Any idea where I can get a "quiet' 6
volt power supply? I need 12 volts in and 6 out.
David,
When you find the appropriate solution, please post it so the rest of us
dummies (referring only to myself, of course) who plan to install XM can benefit
from your discoveries.
Thanks,
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Preflight Check List Item - 0.8V |
Hi Bob,
There was a preflight item you recommended I check on my RV 6A that had to do with
0.8 Volts and the essential bus. It's been 5 years since I've owned the airplane.
Is the test still recommended and if it is could you refresh my memory
on how the test was done and what it accomplished.
Thanks, Rick Fogerson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating avionics
from the bus during engine start-up?
I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any evidence
to the contrary?
Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
to?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Flood" <bryanflood(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Which alternators are affected. |
Could someone remind me which alternators are effected by the load dump
thing when a crowbar overvolt situation occurs? I heard it was a Van's
aleternator but I cannot remember if it's just the Van's internally
regulated alternator -or- also the Van's externally regulated alernator,
which I am using. Am I in the clear?
Thanks,
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which alternators are affected. |
The original issue was an apparent problem with the vans rebuilt alternator
that failed under what I have assumed was a procedure where the alternator
was taken off line under load.
In any event ALL alternators, internal or externally regulated exhibit the
"load dump" condition.
Generally the regulator/alternator assy has internal overvoltage protection
against any load dump condition. This does not protect the acft electrical
system just the alternator.
What happens is when the load is suddenly reduced (for example turning off
landing lights) the alternator continues supplying the prior load current
(before the current was reduced) for a short time. The alternator output
voltage will rise until the this current is absorbed by the load. If there
is a battery attached the battery takes the additional current and the
voltage rise is very small. If there is no battery then the voltage can rise
to 50v or more for a short time.
Its not a good idea to ever remove the alternator from the battery when the
alternator is producing output current. But if the battery contactor failed
open the alternator will see a load dump whose magnitude is the battery
charging current at that time.
There is a backup mode of operation when/if the battery is off line due to
some failure. Its been assumed that use of a large capacitor (25,000 mfd)
across the bus will stabilize the alternator and flight can continue with
"alternator only" flight. Problem is that a load dump of 10 amps can cause
the bus voltage to exceed 20v with the capacitor. If you have Bob's OVP
module installed the result is an instant bus off and most alternators will
not restart with no voltage so you just lost all electrical power from a
simple load dump when you turned something off.
We have a solution that is in the forthcoming report that we think everyone
should consider.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Flood" <bryanflood(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Which alternators are affected.
>
>
> Could someone remind me which alternators are effected by the load dump
> thing when a crowbar overvolt situation occurs? I heard it was a Van's
> aleternator but I cannot remember if it's just the Van's internally
> regulated alternator -or- also the Van's externally regulated alernator,
> which I am using. Am I in the clear?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | splicing strobe wire |
From: "Roger Evenson" <revenson(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: splicing strobe wire
--> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Roger Evenson"
My Whelen strobe wire is 3 (actually 4) wire shielded type. It has
three #18 wires
wrapped with a thin alum foil like paper, then outside this is a bare
wire.
This is all sheathed with a plastic (tetzel?) type covering.
What's the proper way to splice this kind of wire? More specifically,
is there
any harm in wrapping the spliced joint with a separate piece of this
'alum foil'?
In other words, does the 'foil' need to be one continuous piece to do
it's
shielding job? Roger.>>
7/13/2004
Hello Roger, A more elegant solution would be to eliminate the mid wire splice.
If the cable already has a connector on each end cut the connector off one end
and snake the cable the entire route leaving prudent excess at some convenient
location.
Then put a new connector on the cut off end. Replacement connectors and pins are
available from Terminal Town and other sources.
This process can be repeated as necessary if it is required to remove and reinstall
the cable. Not much cable length is required to cut and replace connectors
and the cost is minimal.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
Whether there is evidence or not, you can mitigate the argument by placing your
avionics on the endurance bus, and by using an avionics master switch. That
accomplishes two things. One, it provides an alternate power path to your avionics
because the edurance bus switch can be used to power the bus in the event
of an avionics switch failure. Two, it allows you you easily power your radios
on the ground before engine start by turning on the endurance bus switch.
In my mind, you get added convenience and mitigate the risk of a "single point
of failure" for all your avionics. Again, the argument as to whether you "NEED"
an avionics master switch will never die. I don't need one, I just like the
convenience of having one and by wiring the endurance bus the way I have, I've
kept the integrity of having an endurance bus while mitigating the risk.
That's a win/win for me and the real beauty in designing my OBAM aircraft to fit
my personal needs.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> ...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
>
> Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating
> avionics from the bus during engine start-up?
> I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any
> evidence to the contrary?
>
> Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
> of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
> against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
> to?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Whether there is evidence or not, you can mitigate the argument by placing your
avionics on the endurance bus, and by using an avionics master switch. That accomplishes
two things. One, it provides an alternate power path to your avionics
because the edurance bus switch can be used to power the bus in the event
of an avionics switch failure. Two, it allows you you easily power your radios
on the ground before engine start by turning on the endurance bus switch.
In my mind, you get added convenience and mitigate the risk of a"single point of
failure" for all your avionics. Again, the argument as to whether you "NEED"
an avionics master switch will never die. I don't need one, I just like the convenience
of having one and by wiring theendurance bus the way I have, I've kept
the integrity of having an endurance bus while mitigating the risk. That's
a win/win for me and the real beauty in designing my OBAM aircraft to fit my
personal needs.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by:
...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating
avionics from the bus during engine start-up?
I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any
evidence to the contrary?
Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
to?
ives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey battery terminal size |
Scott,
I just went thru this exact exercise. Went to Van's (I live close) thinking
they would have terminals with the smaller holes, was told to just use the ones
that were too large.
Not being happy with that answer, I found a local welding supply store that
had terms to fit with various hole sizes, and they would even crimp them for
me.
BTW, I was going to use #2 welding wire, which Bob recommends , so a bought a
little to experiment with and proceeded to hit it with the old propane torch.
That worked o.k., kind of melted, would not sustain a flame. Then cut a 2"
piece and dropped it in a sealed cup of gasoline. After 12 hrs, the insulation
had expanded so much that the fine wires fell out, so welding wire under the
cowling won't work for me. Perhaps there is a grade with better insulation. Hope
this helps.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey battery terminal size
I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I searched and could not find
anything.
The terminals on my Odyssey battery take a 6mm diameter (about
0.233inch)
stainless steel bolt. Actually it came with stainless steel allen head
screws, with a notice to torque to 50 inch pounds. My contactors and
starter have 5/16" (.312inch) terminals. If I recall, the starter could
pull up to 200A.
Any problems with the smaller diameter terminals?
Is it a good idea to replace my 5/16" (hole) battery cable terminals
with
ones to fit the 6mm terminal bolts, or is there a special reducing washer to
use in case I need to replace a battery in the field with one that uses
5/16" bolts? (I can make brass reducing washers on my lathe).
If I replace the terminal allen head screws with hex head bolts for
maintenance convenience, is there a minimum tensile strength bolt I should
specify?
Should I use lock washers in addition to the flat washers?
Sorry to be so anal, but after careful design of a dual alternator system, I
don't want to have a weak link.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Girard <fly.ez(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
All, Anecdotal evidence only of damage done during shut down. The
shutdown checklist used in all the aircraft of the flying club to which
I belong has master off before leaning out the mixture and turning the
mags off and then back on to clear the cylinders. The maintenance
officer says we have had several radios fried by current spikes from the
mags when the master was left on. I can't speak to the claim, I just
follow the check list.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Sherman <msherman95632(at)yahoo.com> |
Ron and Matt.
Thanks for your input. I have verified the 15 ohms
across the actuator contacts. So it looks like it is
a battery contactor.
I have an e-mail out to B&C to see if the heat is
normal. Or if there may be an inernal problem.
Mark S.
CH-701/912ULS
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
It does not look like a flux gate. A typical flux gate would have 5
wires rather than 4.
Jerzy
Ron Koyich wrote:
>
>Hi, David - sounds like you may be the new owner of a 'flux gate', or a
>repeater compass remote sensor.
>
>
>The terminal labelling seems familiar.
>
>
>Is it a little bowl shaped unit a few inches across with the terminals on
>the flat side? Does it have mounting holes that allow the unit to be
>'turned' in its orientation a few degrees?
>
>If yes to these questions, you may need to find out what compass system
>it was from and buy the rest of the bits to make it work.
>
>
>Slaved compass systems are typically an external gyro, very often part of
>an HSI system, which is corrected for precession by reference to earth's
>magnetic. The device you have sounds like the sensor for the earth's
>magnetism.
>
>
>There were also remote compass units in early aviation, without gyros -
>a 400Hz synchro system would transfer the heading from the unit to the
>panel mounted indicator. They flung themselves around like a whisky
>compass does, being only slightly stabler.
>
>
>What other junk did you buy?
>
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
| From: | Bruce Green <mailindex(at)juno.com> |
I had an electric compass a few years back and from what I remember, the
four wires are two for power and ground and two to the sender which also
had power and ground. Mine was three pieces, the indicator head, the
sender and an inverter.
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
<David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com> writes:
> <David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I bought in a garage sale Electric Compass manufactured by aircraft
> inst. & development Inc. from Wichita Kansas.
> Part number 17-111.
>
> This compass has 4 leads coming into it with markings A, B, C, and
> D.
> Any information on this product and what it expect to see on each
> lead
> would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Crimping BNC/RG400 |
Robert,
I have some RG400 from you/BandC and wish to crimp BNC to same.
What model BNCs would you recommend and whence now that I have the proper
crimpers?
(I am having trouble searching BandC at the moment).
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
Thanks Ron for the info.
Actually it is a standard 3" vertical compass that suppose to show
Magnetic heading with standard mounting holes. Does this additional info
help to wake up some dead brain cells??
Thanks again,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto(at)hotmail.com> |
Is there any differance between the ANL fuses sold for use with alternators and
the ones sold for use with auto sound systems ?
Thanks
Richard
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months FREE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ciolino <jbc2000(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | dumb wiring question |
I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
"proper" way, I will do it.
I would appreciate any help.
JBC
Wiring Illiterate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jimk36(at)comcast.net> |
If you really, really want an avionics master switch, which is convenient if not
necessary, you can wire it as Randy suggests which is a neat idea, or you might
simply put in 2 switches side by side wired in parallel. If one switch fails
the other will turn on all those expensive boxes. Either way, I too would avoid
the chance, however remote, that a single failure would turn the lights off.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
>>The maintenance officer says we have had several radios fried by
current spikes from the mags when the master was left on.<<
To which I say, "BS."
Data, please, not heresay stories.
REK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | dumb wiring question |
John,
I would recommend running both wires to the back of the switch. That is, do
not put a connection in a hidden place or somewhere in-line, as that if a
problem happens it is usually at a connection. Thus it is helpful to have
all connections accessible.
As far as connecting the two wires together it depends on your switch. For
example if you use fast-on connections for the switch I would crimp the two
wires in the same fast-on. I am not sure if this is an acceptable practice
or not. If the connection is a screw I would put an eyelet on each wire.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
http://www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Ciolino
Subject: AeroElectric-List: dumb wiring question
I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
"proper" way, I will do it.
I would appreciate any help.
JBC
Wiring Illiterate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: dumb wiring question |
Just run the two wires to your switch and crimp them together in the same terminal.
It's okay to crimp multiple wires into the same terminal provided the terminal
is sized correctly. Look at Bob's shop notes on his web site, I believe
he has an aticle about this.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
> bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
> branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
> thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
> two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
>
> I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
> "proper" way, I will do it.
>
> I would appreciate any help.
>
> JBC
> Wiring Illiterate
>
>
>
>
>
>
Just run the two wires to your switch and crimp them together in the same terminal.
It's okay to crimp multiple wires into the same terminal provided the terminal
is sized correctly. Look at Bob's shop notes on his web site, I believe
he has an aticle about this.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Ciolino
I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
"proper" way, I will do it.
I would appreciate any help.
JBC
Wiring Illiterate
ves: http://www.matronics.com/archives
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dumb wiring question - Multiple wires in a crimp |
Correct. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
There is no prohibition for putting multiple wires into a single PIDG terminal.
It's done all the time.
Bob . . .
>
>Just run the two wires to your switch and crimp them together in the same
>terminal. It's okay to crimp multiple wires into the same terminal
>provided the terminal is sized correctly. Look at Bob's shop notes on his
>web site, I believe he has an aticle about this.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> > I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
> > bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
> > branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
> > thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
> > two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
> >
> > I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
> > "proper" way, I will do it.
> >
> > I would appreciate any help.
> >
> > JBC
> > Wiring Illiterate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Just run the two wires to your switch and crimp them together in the same
>terminal. It's okay to crimp multiple wires into the same terminal
>provided the terminal is sized correctly. Look at Bob's shop notes on his
>web site, I believe he has an aticle about this.
>
>
>Randy
>
>
>F1 Rocket
>
>
>http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
>
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Ciolino
>
> I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
> bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
> branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
> thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
> two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
>
> I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
> "proper" way, I will do it.
>
> I would appreciate any help.
>
> JBC
> Wiring Illiterate
>
>
> ves: http://www.matronics.com/archives
>
>
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Compass |
Ah, you have the panel mounted instrument?
In that case, it could be for any remote or slaved compass system, David.
It is more than likely just a servo/synchro indicator. Lots more stuff
required to make it work as a compass.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Missing AeroElectric List Messages |
For some reason, I don't seem to be receiving all of the AeroElectric List
traffic. For example, the exchange below just came through but I don't see the
posting that started the thread. I just checked the archives and see a lot
of traffice on the list that did not come through to my cox.net email account.
The only thing I can think of is that cox.net has some kind of spam filter
running that are trashing some of my incoming traffic. I'll be changing my
matronics
list-server email to the account that resides on my website server. Since
I own that server, I know there are no spam filters . . . unfortunately,
I can begin to expect lots of spam on that account as soon as I begin to
publish a new e-mail address . . . hazards of playing in the real-world
sand box.
Anyhow, I wanted folks to know that I've not been ignoring them. If anyone
has a query from the past several weeks that I appeared to ignore, wait
a day or two until my AeroElectric-List return address changes to
rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com That should fix the communications problem
Bob . . .
>
>Ah, you have the panel mounted instrument?
>
>In that case, it could be for any remote or slaved compass system, David.
>
>
>It is more than likely just a servo/synchro indicator. Lots more stuff
>required to make it work as a compass.
>
>
>Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmfpublic(at)comcast.net |
(Aeroelectric-List)
| Subject: | Re: Missing AeroElectric List Messages |
Bob,
Instead of having the list messages sent to your email, why not just log onto the
website (matronics)list? This is what I do, and this also sort of organizes
threads: not always reliably. You don't want to wade through spam, which is
running 80% on my system.
Jim Foerster
Bob,
Instead of having the list messages sent to your email, why not just log onto the
website (matronics)list? This is what I do, and this also sort of organizes
threads: not always reliably. You don't want to wade through spam, which is running
80% on my system.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George(at)maxwell.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
Bob -
I have what may be an irrational aversion to rosin-core solder.
I seem to get much better results with my red tin can of Lenk paste flux and
solid (thin) solder. Are you aware of any problems or incompatibilities
with common paste flux residue in aircraft?
Neal George
RV-7 N8ZG, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
Hi George,
There is a problem with paste flux in any electronic wiring. Its residue
is corrosive and in time will damage anything metallic it comes in
contact with. Because of this property it is especially risky to use it
in aircraft wiring. Rosin core is the preferred solder for use in
electronics.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A painting
George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
>
>Bob -
>I have what may be an irrational aversion to rosin-core solder.
>I seem to get much better results with my red tin can of Lenk paste flux and
>solid (thin) solder. Are you aware of any problems or incompatibilities
>with common paste flux residue in aircraft?
>
>Neal George
>RV-7 N8ZG, wings
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
Let's not get too generalized here. There are paste and liquid fluxes
out there that are perfectly fine for electronics. You just have to
make sure that the residues are not acidic or otherwise corrosive. I do
not know if your "Lenk" flux is in this category or not. There are also
flux cored solders that are not suitable for electronics.
Rosin-core solder is good for electronics applications, but should
really be cleaned off after soldering - alcohol, acetone, mek or any
reasonable solvent.
There are also plenty of flux cored solder that is not rosin-based and
is great for electronics. There are several types that offer cores of
water soluble flux, low residue flux or others that are specifically
designed for electronics applications - some designed to be cleaned
after soldering and some specifically designed to be left on after
soldering.
The key is to make sure whatever you use states specifically that it is
designed for electronics applications and is specifically non-corrosive.
In some cases, where what I want to solder is not readily solderable
with electronics fluxes, I even use acid based or other highly active
fluxes to solder something "electronic". The trick there is to be sure
to thoroughly clean the joint after soldering. YMMV
Dick Tasker, RV9A # 90573
richard dudley wrote:
>
>Hi George,
>There is a problem with paste flux in any electronic wiring. Its residue
>is corrosive and in time will damage anything metallic it comes in
>contact with. Because of this property it is especially risky to use it
>in aircraft wiring. Rosin core is the preferred solder for use in
>electronics.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard Dudley
>-6A painting
>
>George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob -
>>I have what may be an irrational aversion to rosin-core solder.
>>I seem to get much better results with my red tin can of Lenk paste flux and
>>solid (thin) solder. Are you aware of any problems or incompatibilities
>>with common paste flux residue in aircraft?
>>
>>Neal George
>>RV-7 N8ZG, wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
>
> >Bob -
> >I have what may be an irrational aversion to rosin-core solder.
> >I seem to get much better results with my red tin can of Lenk paste flux and
> >solid (thin) solder. Are you aware of any problems or incompatibilities
> >with common paste flux residue in aircraft?
> >
> >Neal George
> >RV-7 N8ZG, wings
> >
I have perhaps a dozen different soldering tools, three or
four forms of electronic tin/lead solder and one form of
silver solder. The only solder that needs additional/external
flux is the sliver solder. Haven't had a can of flux in the
shop since I gave up soldering small enclosures together from
galvanized roofing material . . . that was about 35 years ago.
Check out the Kester offerings at:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T042/1170.pdf
63/37 Resin 44 is my favorite. I do have a spool of "285" but
never found a need for it.
If you can't do a good job with these solders as-is,
there's something wrong with your tools, materials
and/or technique.
If you really gotta use an external flux, make sure
it's 'elctronic stuff like those offered at:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=222564&Site=US&Cat=32703202
. . . but I'd be very skeptical of any need for externally
applied flux. The only place I've ever seen bottled
flux at RAC is on rework stations where they have to
deal routinely with soldered joints that have been exposed
to the wild and woolly world of service in airplanes.
Next time I'm over in that building, I'll ask the folks if
they ever find the stuff useful. I've done plenty
of "rework" in soldered joints where off-the-spool, pre-fluxed
solder was entirely adequate to the task.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: dumb wiring question |
In a message dated 07/14/2004 6:51:24 AM Central Standard Time,
f1rocket(at)comcast.net writes:
> I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
> bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
> branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
> thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
> two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
Nothing "wrong" with this as long as ALL wires in the circuit are properly
sized for the FUSE supplying the circuit. You mention R & L, so I assume you
are using tip lights with the rear-facing white lights for say, 10 amps total?
Use 18 ga. from switch, strip about 3/4" from the splice end, double it over
and stuff into a blue PDIG splice & crimp. Yank on it to make SURE it is
tightly crimped. Strip 1/4" from the two 18 ga. wires to the tip lights, stuff
into
splice, crimp & yank. The electrons from the switch will never get confused
when they arrive at the splice, the red ones will go left and the green ones
right...........
The white ones are filtered by the kadink muffler built into the receptacle
and are drawn aft by relative motion conditioned by coriolis effect on surface
tension of lens.
(Most of the above is relevant- discard all else! 8-)
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Blade VOR/LOC/GS antennas |
I am thinking on using a Comant CI120 VOR/LOC/GS dual blade antenna on
my Thunder Mustang. These blade type antennas are normally mounted on
either side of a vertical stabilizer and then the signal from each side
is combined together into a single coax/signal which goes to your radio.
My question is, does it matter how for apart the two blades are as I am
thinking about locating one in each wing tip which are 25' apart? The
Thunder Mustang is nearly all carbon fiber, except the wing tips.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
Bob, I found it helpful to put a touch of liquid flux on the ends of those
25 pin D-sub connectors prior to soldering AWG 22 wires in them. Seemed to
make them go together better. Otherwise I agree.
--Kent
3 aircraft wired per Aeroelectric Connection
. . . but I'd be very skeptical of any need for externally
> applied flux. The only place I've ever seen bottled
> flux at RAC is on rework stations where they have to
> deal routinely with soldered joints that have been exposed
> to the wild and woolly world of service in airplanes.
> Next time I'm over in that building, I'll ask the folks if
> they ever find the stuff useful. I've done plenty
> of "rework" in soldered joints where off-the-spool, pre-fluxed
> solder was entirely adequate to the task.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
In a message dated 7/14/2004 9:29:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kjashton(at)vnet.net writes:
Bob, I found it helpful to put a touch of liquid flux on the ends of those
25 pin D-sub connectors prior to soldering AWG 22 wires in them. Seemed to
make them go together better. Otherwise I agree.
--Kent
3 aircraft wired per Aeroelectric Connection
Bob, Kent,
Yes, I was taught to do this by the US Navy in the early seventies. A
little liquid flux on small pins or parts helps to speed up the whole soldering
process and definitely helps to accomplish that perfect shiny, smooth finish.
The heat transfers to the work piece faster and the liquid flux cleans the
soldering iron tip and the wire/pin, etc., at that last second to ensure a
cleaner joint.
I urge all doubters to try this: Solder a few wires into a D-sub connector
your own way and then try it this way: Strip a few wires for use and prepare
to solder by dipping the stripped ends in liquid flux. Clean the soldering
iron tip on a wet sponge and freshly tin with solder. Tin the iron tip with
just a little more solder than needed and then immediately touch the stripped
and fluxed wire end to the iron tip for a second. The wire end will wick the
solder up in that first second to just the right fill with no extra that
tends to thicken the wire's cross section. Cut the wire's stripped and tinned
end to ideal length for insertion into the solder cup of the pin on your
connector. Now is the time to clean the flux off the wire and add the wire sleeve
or heat shrink tubing (especially if the other end of your wire is already
terminated).
With the D-sub connector held in a clamp on the bench, apply a little liquid
flux to the solder cup of a pin and touch the soldering iron tip to it as
above in the wire prep stage. The iron needs to be freshly cleaned and tinned
immediately before this step. The cup will take up the solder and should be
about half full for best results. You can add some solder but don't bother
because the cup does not have to be full for a very good joint to result.
Now you have a tinned wire and a tinned solder cup on your connector pin and
the perfect joint is about to happen!
Put a drop of liquid flux in the tinned solder cup. Hold the wire end to
the solder cup of the pin and again touch the again freshly cleaned and tinned
iron tip to them as you push the wire home and remove the iron in less than a
second. The cup will be full or nearly so and the wire end will be embedded
in a nice shiny, smooth fillet of solder. Slide the sleeve or heat shrink
home after you have cleaned the flux off.
Don't burn your fingers.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
In a message dated 7/15/04 7:08:49 AM Central Daylight Time, KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
writes:
Yes, I was taught to do this by the US Navy in the early seventies. A
little liquid flux on small pins or parts helps to speed up the whole
soldering
process and definitely helps to accomplish that perfect shiny, smooth
finish.
The heat transfers to the work piece faster and the liquid flux cleans the
soldering iron tip and the wire/pin, etc., at that last second to ensure a
cleaner joint.
Good Morning John,
Thanks for the great description.
Do you have any specific recommendations as to types or brands of flux or
solder?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erie <erie(at)shelbyvilledesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
If I'm not mistaken, soldering introduces a stress riser where the
solder ends, so cable clamping in the shell becomes critical to long
term survival,
Crimping, on the other hand, when properly done makes a gas tight joint
that survives better in a high vibration environment.
erie
Kent Ashton wrote:
>
>Bob, I found it helpful to put a touch of liquid flux on the ends of those
>25 pin D-sub connectors prior to soldering AWG 22 wires in them. Seemed to
>make them go together better. Otherwise I agree.
>--Kent
>3 aircraft wired per Aeroelectric Connection
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Crimp tool for King connectors? |
I'd appreciate advice on the best crimp tool to use for
the connectors as used by Bendix-King on their units
(KX155 etc.) also where best to buy one.
Many thanks
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Crimp tool for King connectors? |
I'd appreciate advice on the best crimp tool to use for
the connectors as used by Bendix-King on their units
(KX155 etc.) also where best to buy one.
Many thanks
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
>
>If I'm not mistaken, soldering introduces a stress riser where the
>solder ends, so cable clamping in the shell becomes critical to long
>term survival,
>Crimping, on the other hand, when properly done makes a gas tight joint
>that survives better in a high vibration environment.
>
>erie
There is no functional differences and/or advantages of
crimp over solder. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
Both produce "stress risers" both produce
"gas tight" joints. One process takes skill to use low
cost tools, the other requires high cost tools and more
expensive materials to offset a need for experience and
skills. Either technique can produce very satisfactory,
long lived connections.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
----- Original Message -----
From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Date: Thursday, July 15, 2004 8:07 am
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Solder - Rosin-core
or paste flux
KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 7/14/2004 9:29:28 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
> kjashton(at)vnet.net writes:
>
> Bob, I found it helpful to put a touch of liquid
flux on the ends
> of those
> 25 pin D-sub connectors prior to soldering AWG 22
wires in them.
> Seemed to
> make them go together better. Otherwise I agree.
> --Kent
> 3 aircraft wired per Aeroelectric Connection
>
>
> Bob, Kent,
>
> Yes, I was taught to do this by the US Navy in the
early
> seventies. A
> little liquid flux on small pins or parts helps to
speed up the
> whole soldering
> process and definitely helps to accomplish that
perfect shiny,
> smooth finish.
> The heat transfers to the work piece faster and
the liquid flux
> cleans the
> soldering iron tip and the wire/pin, etc., at
that last second to
> ensure a
> cleaner joint.
>
> I urge all doubters to try this: Solder a few
wires into a D-sub
> connector
> your own way and then try it this way: Strip a few
wires for use
> and prepare
> to solder by dipping the stripped ends in liquid
flux. Clean the
> soldering
> iron tip on a wet sponge and freshly tin with
solder. Tin the
> iron tip with
> just a little more solder than needed and then
immediately touch
> the stripped
> and fluxed wire end to the iron tip for a second.
The wire end
> will wick the
> solder up in that first second to just the right
fill with no
> extra that
> tends to thicken the wire's cross section. Cut
the wire's
> stripped and tinned
> end to ideal length for insertion into the solder
cup of the pin
> on your
> connector. Now is the time to clean the flux off
the wire and add
> the wire sleeve
> or heat shrink tubing (especially if the other
end of your wire is
> already
> terminated).
>
> With the D-sub connector held in a clamp on the
bench, apply a
> little liquid
> flux to the solder cup of a pin and touch the
soldering iron tip
> to it as
> above in the wire prep stage. The iron needs to
be freshly
> cleaned and tinned
> immediately before this step. The cup will take
up the solder and
> should be
> about half full for best results. You can add
some solder but
> don't bother
> because the cup does not have to be full for a
very good joint to
> result.
> Now you have a tinned wire and a tinned solder cup
on your
> connector pin and
> the perfect joint is about to happen!
>
> Put a drop of liquid flux in the tinned solder
cup. Hold the wire
> end to
> the solder cup of the pin and again touch the
again freshly
> cleaned and tinned
> iron tip to them as you push the wire home and
remove the iron in
> less than a
> second. The cup will be full or nearly so and
the wire end will
> be embedded
> in a nice shiny, smooth fillet of solder. Slide
the sleeve or
> heat shrink
> home after you have cleaned the flux off.
>
> Don't burn your fingers.
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
>
Excellent practice for a perfect solder joint, but
just one more step will make the job much easier.
Thin the flux about 10 to 1 with alcohol. It only
takes a minute layer of flux to block out the oxygen
that ruins your day, and extra flux just burns and
give you more to clean off. As a technician in an
AT&T manufacturing plant, I used to put down a
150-pin, surface mount IC in about 30sec without a
single bridge. The problem with cored flux is that
it doesn't coat the parts until AFTER it is
heated...which means that it has already had a
chance to oxidize. Keep the thinned flux in a
miniature, needle-tipped squeeze bottle and your
work will improve ten-fold.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
----- Original Message -----
From: richard dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:51 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Solder - Rosin-core
or paste flux
dudley
>
> Hi George,
> There is a problem with paste flux in any
electronic wiring. Its
> residue
> is corrosive and in time will damage anything
metallic it comes in
> contact with. Because of this property it is
especially risky to
> use it
> in aircraft wiring. Rosin core is the preferred
solder for use in
> electronics.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
> -6A painting
Don't use plumber's solder in electronics...EVER.
Just as you say, it is corrosive. Electronic solder
is not. The problem is the residue is stick and
will gunk up everything with conductive goo. The
rosin core is no less worrisome than the paste, as
it is the exact same material. Clean all your
solder joints with alcohol after soldering for two
reasons. 1) It removes the sticky goo, and 2) it is
the only way to tell if you have a cold solder
joint. If it's not bright and shiny, or has what
looks like a crack in the middle, then it is very
prone to develop high resistance at some point not
to far in the future. The solder should be laid
down so that you can see the outline of the wire
under it. If you've have a glob of solder sticking
things together, there is no way to tell what you
have under there. It may still work just fine
forever, and then again, it may not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
avionics-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Cabin speaker specs |
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have
decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight
etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult
to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly -
volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimp tool for King connectors? |
I used the crimper that B&C sells - it worked great. But, I imagine that
any good Molex crimper (.156 pin size) will do the job.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimp tool for King connectors?
>
> I'd appreciate advice on the best crimp tool to use for
> the connectors as used by Bendix-King on their units
> (KX155 etc.) also where best to buy one.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Ralph asked:
"After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have
decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight
etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult
to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly -
volume, freq, distortion...?"
Power input to the speaker is V squared divided by R, so you will get 1/2 the power
into your 8 ohm speaker compared to the 4 ohm. This is 3 db, hardly noticable.
As the load on the amplifier is less, you will hurt nothing. The opposite
choice: 4 ohm speaker on an amp rated for 8 ohms, might lead to distortion.
You are going in the safe direction by using a speaker with an impedance greater
than the "rated" impedance of the amp.
Jim Foerster J400, 80%,...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
>
>
>Folks,
>
>After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
>have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
>operation (pre-flight etc).
>
>My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
>difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
>Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
>properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
>Thanks,
>Ralph Capen
The 4-ohm callout on your audio panel is the recommended
load for maximum output. If you use an 8-ohm speaker,
the maximum output will be 1/2 that of the 4-ohm speaker.
This says NOTHING about speaker efficiency . . . there are
good 8-ohm devices that would put out more sound pressure
than a cheap 4-ohm device. Don't worry about it. An 8-ohm
speaker will work just fine for ground ops. If push comes to
shove, install two 8-ohm devices side by side and you'll
double the sound pressure by taking advantage of the
amplifier's rated capabilities . . . but I'm certain that
this will not be necessary.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Good info - thanks for the tron lesson too!
-----Original Message-----
From: James Foerster <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cabin speaker specs
Ralph asked:
"After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have
decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight
etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult
to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly -
volume, freq, distortion...?"
Power input to the speaker is V squared divided by R, so you will get 1/2 the power
into your 8 ohm speaker compared to the 4 ohm. This is 3 db, hardly noticable.
As the load on the amplifier is less, you will hurt nothing. The opposite
choice: 4 ohm speaker on an amp rated for 8 ohms, might lead to distortion.
You are going in the safe direction by using a speaker with an impedance greater
than the "rated" impedance of the amp.
Jim Foerster J400, 80%,...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Thanks Bob,
This will probably be the way that I go as there are small speakers out there with
enclosures etc.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cabin speaker specs
>
>
>Folks,
>
>After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
>have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
>operation (pre-flight etc).
>
>My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
>difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
>Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
>properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
>Thanks,
>Ralph Capen
The 4-ohm callout on your audio panel is the recommended
load for maximum output. If you use an 8-ohm speaker,
the maximum output will be 1/2 that of the 4-ohm speaker.
This says NOTHING about speaker efficiency . . . there are
good 8-ohm devices that would put out more sound pressure
than a cheap 4-ohm device. Don't worry about it. An 8-ohm
speaker will work just fine for ground ops. If push comes to
shove, install two 8-ohm devices side by side and you'll
double the sound pressure by taking advantage of the
amplifier's rated capabilities . . . but I'm certain that
this will not be necessary.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Point of clarification, No load is often not an option!
Some audio amps REQUIRE a load or they will fail. Instructions like "If no
speaker than you MUST have a resistor of XX ohms across the leads".
I have not seen a case where there was a problem between 4 and 8 ohms
however, and remember the resistance as measured by an ohmmeter for a "4"
Ohm speaker is not 4 ohms. You cannot determine the speaker impedance with
an ohmmeter.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cabin speaker specs
>
> Ralph asked:
> "After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have
> decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight
> etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult
> to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly -
> volume, freq, distortion...?"
>
> Power input to the speaker is V squared divided by R, so you will get 1/2
the power into your 8 ohm speaker compared to the 4 ohm. This is 3 db,
hardly noticable. As the load on the amplifier is less, you will hurt
nothing. The opposite choice: 4 ohm speaker on an amp rated for 8 ohms,
might lead to distortion. You are going in the safe direction by using a
speaker with an impedance greater than the "rated" impedance of the amp.
>
> Jim Foerster J400, 80%,...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Thanks...my audio panel has a switch and will function without a speaker. The
impedance info is helpful too - I was gonna take an ohmmeter to it........guess
I gotta read the label.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Messinger <paulm(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cabin speaker specs
Point of clarification, No load is often not an option!
Some audio amps REQUIRE a load or they will fail. Instructions like "If no
speaker than you MUST have a resistor of XX ohms across the leads".
I have not seen a case where there was a problem between 4 and 8 ohms
however, and remember the resistance as measured by an ohmmeter for a "4"
Ohm speaker is not 4 ohms. You cannot determine the speaker impedance with
an ohmmeter.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cabin speaker specs
>
> Ralph asked:
> "After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have
> decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight
> etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult
> to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly -
> volume, freq, distortion...?"
>
> Power input to the speaker is V squared divided by R, so you will get 1/2
the power into your 8 ohm speaker compared to the 4 ohm. This is 3 db,
hardly noticable. As the load on the amplifier is less, you will hurt
nothing. The opposite choice: 4 ohm speaker on an amp rated for 8 ohms,
might lead to distortion. You are going in the safe direction by using a
speaker with an impedance greater than the "rated" impedance of the amp.
>
> Jim Foerster J400, 80%,...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hi Paul,
That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring a load
or otherwise being damaged. Do you know of an example of such
a device? I had gotten the impression that most modern amps
were pretty impervious to that kind of thing, but your note makes
me think I should be more careful.
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> Point of clarification, No load is often not an option!
>
> Some audio amps REQUIRE a load or they will fail. Instructions like "If
> no speaker than you MUST have a resistor of XX ohms across the leads".
>
> I have not seen a case where there was a problem between 4 and 8 ohms
> however, and remember the resistance as measured by an ohmmeter for a
> "4" Ohm speaker is not 4 ohms. You cannot determine the speaker
> impedance with an ohmmeter.
>
> Paul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
Rick Girard wrote:
>
> All, Anecdotal evidence only of damage done during shut down. The
> shutdown checklist used in all the aircraft of the flying club to which
> I belong has master off before leaning out the mixture and turning the
> mags off and then back on to clear the cylinders. The maintenance
> officer says we have had several radios fried by current spikes from the
> mags when the master was left on. I can't speak to the claim, I just
> follow the check list.
Oh man, is this guy confused. There is no relationship between the mags and the
rest of the electrical system unless someone has attached the P-lead ground
to ground in the electrical system. (Actually, Cessna does this in the C-172
which makes no sense to me.) The grounds for the P-leads should terminate at the
mags themselves.
OTOH, turning off the battery master while the engine is running is not such a
hot idea as you are creating the possibility of a spike on the buss now that the
battery is no longer connected to absorb said spike. The master switch should
stay on until the engine stops running. This is doubly important if you are
using an internally-regulated self-exciting alternator.
But the short answer, as Ron Koyich put it so succinctly, is, "BS."
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
OTOH, turning off the battery master while the engine is running is not
such a hot idea as you are creating the possibility of a spike on the buss
now that the battery is no longer connected to absorb said spike. The
master switch should stay on until the engine stops running. This is doubly
important if you are using an internally-regulated self-exciting alternator.
You get a load dump from any alternator int or external reg and so goes the
so called spike. I cannot think of any difference between int and ext reg
except for contactor/relay dropout times.
If your setup removes regulator power (for an ext reg alternator) say 200ms
before removing the battery then you are safe. Both off at the same time
does not stop the load dump from getting to the bus.
BTW the contactor open time goes from around 5 ms to 50 ms when the diode
coil supressor is added to a commonly used contactor.
Contactor contact bounce on closing can and has damaged avionics and thus I
was convinced at the time an avionics master was more than a convience. Load
dumps on power off can also cause damage. This in the 1960's and 70's built
avionics. Poor transient protection and blown cmos parts. Not sure if todays
avionics could be damaged but the worst case load dump is impressive in
energy 50v @15amps peak decaying over more than 150 ms is not trivial and
this is above the bus V and current
The contactor contact bounce I have observed in my current testing is NOT
addressed properly in DO-160. In fact this very long multiple bounce was a
major problem in the test series The kilovac brand contactor has essentially
no contact bounce.
My conclusion is that while modern avionics are less sensitive, load dumps
can happen that exceed the requirements of DO-160 and thus the power on and
off timing delays of the various relays and switches have the potential of
causing nasty transients.
Power on and power off sequencing is a major issue in many electronic
designs. Thus while many or nearly all aircraft electrical systems may be
safe the occasional acft will have problems.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
My comments are from several com radios I have installed.
>
> I agree that modern design should not need a load but if the avionics mfgr
> says so then I do it.
>
> Look at the install manual and see if there is a note. Not all have such a
> requirement.
>
> Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cabin speaker specs
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring a load
> or otherwise being damaged. Do you know of an example of such
> a device? I had gotten the impression that most modern amps
> were pretty impervious to that kind of thing, but your note makes
> me think I should be more careful.
>
> Matt-
> N34RD
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Matt Prather wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring a load
> or otherwise being damaged. Do you know of an example of such
> a device? I had gotten the impression that most modern amps
> were pretty impervious to that kind of thing, but your note makes
> me think I should be more careful.
The problem occurs with transformer-coupled amplifiers. You won't find those in
production audio panels these days unless you have one of those new-fangled
hi-fi tube-type audio panels. :-)
It can be an issue with some comm radios as they use the audio amp to modulate
the transmitter through a transformer and couple the speaker to the audio amp
through the same transformer.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
In a message dated 7/15/04 10:58:08 AM Central Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
> difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>>>>>>>>>
Got my 4 ohm spkr at the aviation department at WallyWorld- (WalMart Auto)
It's about 5" in diameter, cost maybe $7 and works great on my Microair 760....
From The PossumWorks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Thanks - that sounds like something I have read somewhere....
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Matt Prather wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring a load or
>> otherwise being damaged. Do you know of an example of such
>> a device? I had gotten the impression that most modern amps
>> were pretty impervious to that kind of thing, but your note makes me
>> think I should be more careful.
>
> The problem occurs with transformer-coupled amplifiers. You won't find
> those in production audio panels these days unless you have one of those
> new-fangled hi-fi tube-type audio panels. :-)
>
> It can be an issue with some comm radios as they use the audio amp to
> modulate the transmitter through a transformer and couple the speaker to
> the audio amp through the same transformer.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
Paul Messinger wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
> OTOH, turning off the battery master while the engine is running is not
> such a hot idea as you are creating the possibility of a spike on the buss
> now that the battery is no longer connected to absorb said spike. The
> master switch should stay on until the engine stops running. This is doubly
> important if you are using an internally-regulated self-exciting alternator.
>
>
> You get a load dump from any alternator int or external reg and so goes the
> so called spike. I cannot think of any difference between int and ext reg
> except for contactor/relay dropout times.
And the usual wiring practice is to have a DPST switch remove excitation from the
battery master contactor and the field at the same time. If the engine is
still running you have created the unprotected load-dump scenario.
> If your setup removes regulator power (for an ext reg alternator) say 200ms
> before removing the battery then you are safe. Both off at the same time
> does not stop the load dump from getting to the bus.
Right. Internally regulated and self-exciting alternators will continue to provide
output until they quit turning. Turning off the battery master in that case
is asking for a problem since the alternator will continue to generate power
unless you have installed a contactor to disconnect the alternator from the
bus.
> BTW the contactor open time goes from around 5 ms to 50 ms when the diode
> coil supressor is added to a commonly used contactor.
Ha, I bet you are right. I never thought about that.
> Power on and power off sequencing is a major issue in many electronic
> designs. Thus while many or nearly all aircraft electrical systems may be
> safe the occasional acft will have problems.
I have always adopted the "better safe than sorry" approach and turned off the
master after the engine stopped turning.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <beecho(at)beecho.org> |
"Europa Forum"
| Subject: | Turn Coordinator |
I have a new, never used, 3 1/8", American made (Electric Gyro Corp.),
electric, Aircraft Spruce P/N 1394T100.
List price in the AS catalog $489.00 USD. Will sell for $389.00 USD
obo. Will ship anyway you wish at your cost.
Tom Friedland Atascadero, CA. 805 460 9690
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Alternator output at shutdown is typically lower than any other time...
After having flown the airplane for a time, the alternator has had a chance
to recharge the battery (potentially the biggest continuous load in a
system). If you turn off the lights and sirens before killing the
alternator, the
load dump is going to be smaller than immediately after startup (for
instance).
I know, I haven't quantified anything here. As well, you wouldn't
typically be
turning very many RPM when you shut down - this limits output.
On externally regulated alternators, it would seem safe to turn off the
alternator, then the battery?
Question: Will your car's rebuilt alternator be damaged if you should turn
on the headlights, wipers, A/C, heaterfan, rev up the engine, and then turn
off the key? Seems like the load dump scenario. The alternator will
continue to spin (producing output) for several hundred milliseconds after
the key is pulled....
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Paul Messinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
>> OTOH, turning off the battery master while the engine is running is
>> not
>> such a hot idea as you are creating the possibility of a spike on the
>> buss now that the battery is no longer connected to absorb said spike.
>> The master switch should stay on until the engine stops running.
>> This is doubly important if you are using an internally-regulated
>> self-exciting alternator.
>>
>>
>> You get a load dump from any alternator int or external reg and so
>> goes the
>> so called spike. I cannot think of any difference between int and ext
>> reg except for contactor/relay dropout times.
>
> And the usual wiring practice is to have a DPST switch remove excitation
> from the battery master contactor and the field at the same time. If
> the engine is still running you have created the unprotected load-dump
> scenario.
>
>> If your setup removes regulator power (for an ext reg alternator) say
>> 200ms before removing the battery then you are safe. Both off at the
>> same time does not stop the load dump from getting to the bus.
>
> Right. Internally regulated and self-exciting alternators will continue
> to provide output until they quit turning. Turning off the battery
> master in that case is asking for a problem since the alternator will
> continue to generate power unless you have installed a contactor to
> disconnect the alternator from the bus.
>
>> BTW the contactor open time goes from around 5 ms to 50 ms when the
>> diode coil supressor is added to a commonly used contactor.
>
> Ha, I bet you are right. I never thought about that.
>
>> Power on and power off sequencing is a major issue in many electronic
>> designs. Thus while many or nearly all aircraft electrical systems may
>> be safe the occasional acft will have problems.
>
> I have always adopted the "better safe than sorry" approach and turned
> off the master after the engine stopped turning.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | The maintenance officer says we have had several radios |
fried by
The maintenance officer says we have had several radios fried by
current spikes from the mags when the master was left on.<<
To which I say, "BS."
I have just sold my Electronics repair business and retired after 30 years.
My experience was not centered on aviation, never the less I strongly agree.
In the early days of electronics getting large values in filter capacitors
was not feasable and so spikes from start up surges would present themself
to any radio circuit operating. However early valve based gear was unlikely
to be influenced by this except perhaps one capacitor in the vibrator power
supply and then only if it was a poor choice that was used.
With the advent of solid state [ie:- transistors ] things were very much
more susceptable to surges and spikes. Early solid state components were not
up to handling any abuse and seemed to fail even for no reason. On top of
that the filter capacitors were still not up to anywhere near the standards
or capacities of today, so radio gear and the likes thereof were very
susceptable at that period in time. This is where the idea of not allowing
power to this gear during start up and shut down comes from. It was a very
real necessity at that time.
Despite the short comings in this regard of solid state at this time it
presented much lighter radios etc that used much less power so they were
used especially in aircraft where these features were very important. I
would guess the adverse side of things re reliability was played down by the
manufacturers. After all don't they still all do that today with everything.
However now the situation has improved dramatically with solid state
components and filter capacitors. There is also readilly available simple
technology built in to any good aircraft radio etc to protect in this
regard. Hence I agree that the precaution of turning off the master or radio
should not any longer be necessarry. However you can see where the idea came
from. It's just time the idea was let die a natural death so we can
concentrate on relevant things and have our facts straight. Also it is
desirable that where feasable we understand reasons why. Hence my reason for
presenting this explanation. Strangely probably a lot of the younger
generation that might be very good technicians probably would not realise
all this as they just live in todays world. However it is yesterdays world
that is eroniously affecting our thinking today.
As I say my expertise is not in Aviation electronics so if someone can
validly show me why I am wrong when it comes to aviation then I am all ears,
but don't just tell me a lot of grandma's tales. Facts based on electronics
please.
Rex Shaw
Australia
Kitfox 19-4004
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:20:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
Good Morning John,
Thanks for the great description.
Do you have any specific recommendations as to types or brands of flux or
solder?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Hello Bob,
I have always used Kester 63/37 solder and liquid flux. I don't know if
others are any better or worse. Radio Shack would be just as good and
convenient to most users.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solder - Rosin-core or paste flux |
In a message dated 7/15/2004 11:27:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
echristley(at)nc.rr.com writes:
Excellent practice for a perfect solder joint, but
just one more step will make the job much easier.
Thin the flux about 10 to 1 with alcohol. It only
takes a minute layer of flux to block out the oxygen
that ruins your day, and extra flux just burns and
give you more to clean off. As a technician in an
AT&T manufacturing plant, I used to put down a
150-pin, surface mount IC in about 30sec without a
single bridge. The problem with cored flux is that
it doesn't coat the parts until AFTER it is
heated...which means that it has already had a
chance to oxidize. Keep the thinned flux in a
miniature, needle-tipped squeeze bottle and your
work will improve ten-fold.
Yes, this is a very good point that I forgot to mention. The liquid flux is
constantly thickening in everyday use. One needs to add some alcohol from
time to time to keep it in a viscosity range that is workable for the
component size at hand.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
This is the LED tail lamp that I have talked about a few times. It is a
piece of plexiglass, drilled with several holes at appropriate angles,
and then the holes are plugged with SuperBright LEDs. The first picture
captures how the LEDs point off in different directions. It is brighter
than my truck's taillights, and you can tell from the cigarette lighter
plug how small it is.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED experiment |
Ernest, the "list" stripped off the attachment. Could you post the picture
to your website (I went there and didn't see a link to the tail light).
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED experiment
>
> This is the LED tail lamp that I have talked about a few times. It is a
> piece of plexiglass, drilled with several holes at appropriate angles,
> and then the holes are plugged with SuperBright LEDs. The first picture
> captures how the LEDs point off in different directions. It is brighter
> than my truck's taillights, and you can tell from the cigarette lighter
> plug how small it is.
>
>
> --
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> alleviated by information and experience."
> Veeduber
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Koyich" <Ron(at)Koyich.com> |
| Subject: | The maintenance officer says we have had several |
radios fried by
Hi, Rex.
Not discounting old wisdom - got some of it myself, having been in ham
radio, avionics and other electronics business for nearly forty years.
Not to take away from your experience one bit, please note.
My comment was made because nobody has explained now a surge/spike, call
it what you may, can get from the mags to anything else.
The mags in a traditional aircraft operate independently of the
electrical system. If, for some reason, there was a coupling of mag
electrics with the rest of the ship's electrics there's a fault that goes
way beyond normal faults.
As you say, your experience isn't centred on aviation. This one problem
is very aviation-centric.
Best - Ron (from Sydney and Hong Kong, but remote from Chilliwack, BC,
Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The maintenance officer says we have had several |
radio...
In a message dated 7/16/04 3:26:10 AM Central Daylight Time, Ron(at)Koyich.com
writes:
Best - Ron (from Sydney and Hong Kong, but remote from Chilliwack, BC,
Canada)
Hey Ron!
If you are that close already, can we see you at OSH again this year?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
Load dump is not a problem when the battery is connected. Thus in an car
where the battery is hard wired its a very different case than in an acft
where the battery is/can be disconnected.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master Switch
>
> Alternator output at shutdown is typically lower than any other time...
> After having flown the airplane for a time, the alternator has had a
chance
> to recharge the battery (potentially the biggest continuous load in a
> system). If you turn off the lights and sirens before killing the
> alternator, the
> load dump is going to be smaller than immediately after startup (for
> instance).
> I know, I haven't quantified anything here. As well, you wouldn't
> typically be
> turning very many RPM when you shut down - this limits output.
>
> On externally regulated alternators, it would seem safe to turn off the
> alternator, then the battery?
>
> Question: Will your car's rebuilt alternator be damaged if you should turn
> on the headlights, wipers, A/C, heaterfan, rev up the engine, and then
turn
> off the key? Seems like the load dump scenario. The alternator will
> continue to spin (producing output) for several hundred milliseconds after
> the key is pulled....
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED experiment |
>This is the LED tail lamp that I have talked about a few times. It is a
>piece of plexiglass, drilled with several holes at appropriate angles,
>and then the holes are plugged with SuperBright LEDs. The first picture
>captures how the LEDs point off in different directions. It is brighter
>than my truck's taillights, and you can tell from the cigarette lighter
>plug how small it is.
Ernest,
Comfortable as I am in operating with almost complete ignorance --(please
email me your photos!), I can say that no sensible arrangement as you
describe will please the Aviation Authorities, or be safe either. If the
truck behind you was flying at 250 knots, you want a brighter tail light.
Please see my website for practical data on designing your own LED tail
light or position lights or beacons. Or contact me off line. I'll be glad to
help.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...."
- - Leonard Cohen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: LED experiment |
----- Original Message -----
From: David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Date: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:13 am
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED experiment
Carter"
>
> Ernest, the "list" stripped off the attachment.
Could you post the
> pictureto your website (I went there and didn't
see a link to the
> tail light).
>
> David
>
Oops! Didn't think about that. I'm working on a
page with complete instructions and background
explanations. Should be finished in a few days.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: LED experiment |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:36 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED experiment
> Ernest,
>
> Comfortable as I am in operating with almost
complete ignorance --
> (pleaseemail me your photos!), I can say that no
sensible
> arrangement as you
> describe will please the Aviation Authorities, or
be safe either.
> If the
> truck behind you was flying at 250 knots, you want
a brighter tail
> light.
> Please see my website for practical data on
designing your own LED
> taillight or position lights or beacons. Or
contact me off line.
> I'll be glad to
> help.
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
Those are rather broad, sweeping statements. I
apologize for my pictures not getting through. I
sent it to a few list I participate in, and didn't
consider that this was a text only list. The lack
of pictures sort of limits the discussion.
I did look at your site, but could find no advice
for designing a LED lamp other than a description of
the one you're selling for $160. The system
includes a current regulator, and is meant as a drop
in replacement for current housing designs.
One goal I have is to eliminate complexity. I
already have a voltage regulator. Constant voltage
produces constant current through a resistive load.
Simple resistors are unlikely to do anything
strange, and if the voltage regulator goes south all
bets are off anyway. I view an additional regulator
as needless overkill that adds unnecessary failure
modes.
Another goal is to replace a bulky housing with
something more aerodynamic if for no other reason
than to make the airplane look cleaner (whether it
actually reduces drag or not). My construction
approach frees me to shape the light any way I want.
Finally, the light IS brighter than my truck's tail
light, which probably isn't true of the typical
Cessna rental sitting on the flight line. What with
the yellowed and scratched housing that I've seen so
much of. A 5W bulb in a 12V system will produce the
same amount of light whether it's in a car or plane.
There's not much use debating till I can get my
webpage written, at which point I'd like to hear why
it isn't either sensible, pleasing to authorities or
safe. But until that point, can you give me the
pointer to the practical design advice your talking
about above. I'd rather talk after considering all
the data whenever possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: LED experiment |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:24:55 AM PDT
Subject: Re: LED experiment
>> Ernest,
>>
>> Comfortable as I am in operating with almost
>>complete ignorance -- (please email me your photos!), I can say that no
>>sensible arrangement as you describe will please the Aviation
Authorities, or
>>be safe either. If the truck behind you was flying at 250 knots, you want
>>a brighter tail light. Please see my website for practical data on
>>designing your own LED taillight or position lights or beacons. Or
>>contact me off line. I'll be glad to help.
>> Regards,
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>Those are rather broad, sweeping statements....
I do get smart-alecky at times! Yes....and we all agree we need to see the
details. The tail light stuff was removed (oops) but the other stuff is
still there in the Downloads section.
Here's the tail light stuff (abbreviated.....and yes I know I have made some
approximations here...Don't email me unless you can show me wrong by a
factor of lets say 1.414 X)
_____________________
Making LED position lights is not difficult, but some of the engineering is
messy, especially the photometric units. We know the FAA wants 20
candlepower (same thing as 20 candelas) in a hemispherical dome pointing
rearward (it's a bit more complicated but this will do fine). Now, given the
numbers published by the LED manufacturers, one would think we would start
with the LED's Luminous Intensity, but this is completely backwards. We need
to cover a solid hemisphere with LEDs that usually emit less than a full
hemisphere of light.
Imagine the multi-armed goddess Shiva in a dome tent with a bunch of
flashlights. We want an outside observer to see a smooth light distribution
instead of the beams of the individual flashlights. (Overlapping is good
too.) So... If the dome tent is one meter in radius, the surface area of the
dome is 2XPi or 6.28 square meters (or feet or whatever) in area. You can
skip all length units since they cancel out. I am skipping the steradians
and some of the math, etc.; just trust me on this.
So how many cones of LED light are needed to fill the area of the domed
tent? We have to select an LED and find out how much area it will cover on
the dome. A little trigonometry says we take the half-angle of the LED beam,
set hypotenuse=1 meter (or whatever) and the opposite side is the sine of
the angle. For example if the LED cone of light is 20 degrees, then the sine
of 10 degrees is 0.17. (This then is the radius of the spot on the tent.
(Geometrists will note this is not quite correct but ignore them...they have
no souls). And the area of the LED lighted spot on the domed tent surface is
then Area=Pi X R X R = 0.09 Square Whatevers.
Now from this we gather that 6.28 Square Whatevers require 67 evenly
distributed LEDs of 20 degrees cone angle to cover the surface since
6.28/0.09=66.29...LEDs. Now what luminous Intensity must each LED be? The
FAA requires 20 candelas so 20/67= 0.300 candelas or 300 mcd
(millicandelas).
Note that, in this example, you cannot get away with fewer than 67 LEDs (and
a few more might be better). But if we get wider angle LEDs, say 30 degree
LEDs, then we can get away with 30 LEDs. And then we need 20 candelas/30 or
667 mcd each. The LEDs are $1.50 each or so.
___________________
Well grind this finer after you have a chance to study it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: LED experiment |
And what happens when you move the dome further out from the light
source. Do the LED's have enough beam spread to cover the added dome
area?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: LED experiment
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:24:55 AM PDT
Subject: Re: LED experiment
>> Ernest,
>>
>> Comfortable as I am in operating with almost
>>complete ignorance -- (please email me your photos!), I can say that
no
>>sensible arrangement as you describe will please the Aviation
Authorities, or
>>be safe either. If the truck behind you was flying at 250 knots, you
want
>>a brighter tail light. Please see my website for practical data on
>>designing your own LED taillight or position lights or beacons. Or
>>contact me off line. I'll be glad to help.
>> Regards,
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>Those are rather broad, sweeping statements....
I do get smart-alecky at times! Yes....and we all agree we need to see
the
details. The tail light stuff was removed (oops) but the other stuff is
still there in the Downloads section.
Here's the tail light stuff (abbreviated.....and yes I know I have made
some
approximations here...Don't email me unless you can show me wrong by a
factor of lets say 1.414 X)
_____________________
Making LED position lights is not difficult, but some of the engineering
is
messy, especially the photometric units. We know the FAA wants 20
candlepower (same thing as 20 candelas) in a hemispherical dome pointing
rearward (it's a bit more complicated but this will do fine). Now, given
the
numbers published by the LED manufacturers, one would think we would
start
with the LED's Luminous Intensity, but this is completely backwards. We
need
to cover a solid hemisphere with LEDs that usually emit less than a full
hemisphere of light.
Imagine the multi-armed goddess Shiva in a dome tent with a bunch of
flashlights. We want an outside observer to see a smooth light
distribution
instead of the beams of the individual flashlights. (Overlapping is good
too.) So... If the dome tent is one meter in radius, the surface area of
the
dome is 2XPi or 6.28 square meters (or feet or whatever) in area. You
can
skip all length units since they cancel out. I am skipping the
steradians
and some of the math, etc.; just trust me on this.
So how many cones of LED light are needed to fill the area of the domed
tent? We have to select an LED and find out how much area it will cover
on
the dome. A little trigonometry says we take the half-angle of the LED
beam,
set hypotenuse=1 meter (or whatever) and the opposite side is the sine
of
the angle. For example if the LED cone of light is 20 degrees, then the
sine
of 10 degrees is 0.17. (This then is the radius of the spot on the tent.
(Geometrists will note this is not quite correct but ignore them...they
have
no souls). And the area of the LED lighted spot on the domed tent
surface is
then Area=Pi X R X R = 0.09 Square Whatevers.
Now from this we gather that 6.28 Square Whatevers require 67 evenly
distributed LEDs of 20 degrees cone angle to cover the surface since
6.28/0.09=66.29...LEDs. Now what luminous Intensity must each LED be?
The
FAA requires 20 candelas so 20/67= 0.300 candelas or 300 mcd
(millicandelas).
Note that, in this example, you cannot get away with fewer than 67 LEDs
(and
a few more might be better). But if we get wider angle LEDs, say 30
degree
LEDs, then we can get away with 30 LEDs. And then we need 20 candelas/30
or
667 mcd each. The LEDs are $1.50 each or so.
___________________
Well grind this finer after you have a chance to study it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Re: LED experiment |
>And what happens when you move the dome further out from the light
>source. Do the LED's have enough beam spread to cover the added dome
>area? Bruce
Bruce,
The artifice of the dome tent and the area covered by the flashlight is
merely a ruse to avoid discussing photometry employing steradian measures.
Going beyond plane geometry and trigonometry might have lost one or two of
the aeroelectric list members ( Hah! just kidding...).
So the dome tent can't really inflate, or if it did...same problem. My
deletion of the linear units is also a key. Okay, so the tent is 10X as
big....but I measured it in "whatevers".
The subject you allude to--near-field and far-field luminous distribution is
key to good lighting design, but using the tent analogy pretty much
describes what is going on. (To clarify also, 1000-armed Shiva is very small
and at the center of the tent....). My purpose in writing this was to show
how to calculate what is needed to use LEDs for various tasks. It is not
clear or simple to understand how (e.g.) a 60 degree 1200 mcd LED fits into
an assembly to make a position or other light.
I hope this simplifies it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"The man who carries a cat by the tail
learns something that can be learned
in no other way."
--Mark Twain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: LED experiment |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
...snip
> So how many cones of LED light are needed to fill the area of the domed
> tent? We have to select an LED and find out how much area it will cover on
> the dome. A little trigonometry says we take the half-angle of the LED beam,
> set hypotenuse=1 meter (or whatever) and the opposite side is the sine of
> the angle. For example if the LED cone of light is 20 degrees, then the sine
> of 10 degrees is 0.17. (This then is the radius of the spot on the tent.
> (Geometrists will note this is not quite correct but ignore them...they have
> no souls). And the area of the LED lighted spot on the domed tent surface is
> then Area=Pi X R X R = 0.09 Square Whatevers.
>
> Now from this we gather that 6.28 Square Whatevers require 67 evenly
> distributed LEDs of 20 degrees cone angle to cover the surface since
> 6.28/0.09=66.29...LEDs. Now what luminous Intensity must each LED be? The
> FAA requires 20 candelas so 20/67= 0.300 candelas or 300 mcd
> (millicandelas).
>
> Note that, in this example, you cannot get away with fewer than 67 LEDs (and
> a few more might be better). But if we get wider angle LEDs, say 30 degree
> LEDs, then we can get away with 30 LEDs. And then we need 20 candelas/30 or
> 667 mcd each. The LEDs are $1.50 each or so.
>
Not really a correction...more like several omissions. First, the
requirement:
Sec. 23.1387
Position light system dihedral angles.
[(a) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, each position
light must, as installed, show unbroken light within the dihedral angles
described in this section.]
(b) Dihedral angle L (left) is formed by two intersecting vertical
planes, the first parallel to the longitudinal axis of the airplane, and
the other at 110 to the left of the first, as viewed when looking
forward along the longitudinal axis.
(c) Dihedral angle R (right) is formed by two intersecting vertical
planes, the first parallel to the longitudinal axis of the airplane, and
the other at 110 to the right of the first, as viewed when looking
forward along the longitudinal axis.
(d) Dihedral angle A (aft) is formed by two intersecting vertical planes
making angles of 70 to the right and to the left, respectively, to a
vertical plane passing through the longitudinal axis, as viewed when
looking aft along the longitudinal axis.
(e) If the rear position light, when mounted as far aft as practicable
in accordance with Sec. 23.1385(c), cannot show unbroken light within
dihedral angle A (as defined in paragraph (d) of this section), a solid
angle or angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.04
steradians is allowable within that dihedral angle, if such solid angle
is within a cone whose apex is at the rear position light and whose
elements make an angle of 30 with a vertical line passing through the
rear position light.
Sec. 23.1391
Minimum intensities in the horizontal plane of [position lights.]
Each position light intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values
in the following table:
Dihedral angle
(light included)
Angle from right or left of longitudinal axis, measured from dead ahead
Intensity
(candles)
[L and R (red and green).] Intensity (candles)
0 to 10------------------- 40
10 to 20------------------ 30
20 to 110------------------ 5
A (rear white)
110 to 180-------------------- 20
Sec. 23.1393
Minimum intensities in any vertical plane [of position lights.]
Each position light intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values
in the following table:
Angle above or below the horizontal plane Intensity
0--------------------------------------- 1.00 I.
0 to 5--------------------------------- 0.90 I.
5 to 10-------------------------------- 0.80 I.
10 to 15------------------------------- 0.70 I.
15 to 20------------------------------- 0.50 I.
20 to 30------------------------------- 0.30 I.
30 to 40------------------------------- 0.10 I.
40 to 90------------------------------- 0.05 I.
You don't want to cover the entire inside of the dome with a uniform
sheet of light. For the taillight, Sheba should only drop her flashlight
to an angle of 70 to each side. If the is using a MagLite, then when
she is moving front to back, she should adjust it so that she gets the
really wide angle except when pointing straight up. Once she hits an
angle of 45 to the front, the intensity should have dropped to only 5%
of the vertical intensity, or about 1 candle. (Lay Sheba out on the
fuselage to more the orientation to airplane usage...and remember, YOU
started the Sheba thing). The positional lights only need 5candels for
90 of there span from front to back. Only 10 pointing forward needs
40candles.
Your example uses 30 LEDs at 300mcd. What happens to the required
number when you use 45 and 60 lamps with 1500mcd? I think my lamp is
far exceeds the requirement and only uses 10 LEDs at <$1.50 each.
There is also an important reg limiting overlap of the lights, which
boils down to 'they shouldn't'. A single, large LumiLED will need a
reflector to keep the tail light from shinging where it shouldn't.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mprather <mprather(at)spro.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Re: LED experiment |
While I believe Eric's explanation is correct (and entertaining as
usual), I think
Bruce's question could be answered slightly more directly.... If you
make the
dome of the tent bigger, the area of the "spot" that each LED makes on
the dome
would be proportionally larger (though dimmer) - the "percentage" of the
dome
that is covered in light remains the same, regardless of the dome's
size. You can
think of the LED's light beam to be shaped like a cone - the further
from the LED
you are, the larger the diameter of the cone.
For this thought model to be representative of reality, the distance
from each LED
to the surface of the dome must be "large" compared to the distance
between each
LED. Consider this: If the radius of the dome was 1meter (3feet), and
each LED
was mounted 0.01meters (1/4inch) from it's surface (evenly distributed),
the dome
would have 67 discreet spots on it, which wouldn't look very uniform.
Eric, please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards,
Matt-
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>And what happens when you move the dome further out from the light
>>source. Do the LED's have enough beam spread to cover the added dome
>>area? Bruce
>>
>>
>
>Bruce,
>
>The artifice of the dome tent and the area covered by the flashlight is
>merely a ruse to avoid discussing photometry employing steradian measures.
>Going beyond plane geometry and trigonometry might have lost one or two of
>the aeroelectric list members ( Hah! just kidding...).
>
>So the dome tent can't really inflate, or if it did...same problem. My
>deletion of the linear units is also a key. Okay, so the tent is 10X as
>big....but I measured it in "whatevers".
>
>The subject you allude to--near-field and far-field luminous distribution is
>key to good lighting design, but using the tent analogy pretty much
>describes what is going on. (To clarify also, 1000-armed Shiva is very small
>and at the center of the tent....). My purpose in writing this was to show
>how to calculate what is needed to use LEDs for various tasks. It is not
>clear or simple to understand how (e.g.) a 60 degree 1200 mcd LED fits into
>an assembly to make a position or other light.
>
>I hope this simplifies it.
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
>"The man who carries a cat by the tail
> learns something that can be learned
> in no other way."
> --Mark Twain
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring |
a load
That's an interesting note about audio amplifiers requiring a load
or otherwise being damaged. Do you know of an example of such
a device? I had gotten the impression that most modern amps
were pretty impervious to that kind of thing, but your note makes
me think I should be more careful.
I had my own electrical business including sales and service for 30 years
until I retired. I can assure you no load can blow the output stage in an
amplifier ie:- no speaker. However I have only seen it happen in early solid
state amplifiers. I wouldn't go around deliberately tempting fate running no
load but you would probably be OK these days.
Rex.
rexjan(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
The page is quick and dirty, but I started a second prototype just to
get construction pictures and then threw it together real quick. Please
forgive any ridiculously blaring errors.
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LEDs.html
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED light page |
Ernest, tried the link at 10:05pm and it couldn't find page. May be a
slight typo in url?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED light page
>
> The page is quick and dirty, but I started a second prototype just to
> get construction pictures and then threw it together real quick. Please
> forgive any ridiculously blaring errors.
>
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LEDs.html
>
> --
> http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
> "Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
> alleviated by information and experience."
> Veeduber
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED light page |
David Carter wrote:
>
> Ernest, tried the link at 10:05pm and it couldn't find page. May be a
> slight typo in url?
>
Yep my typo. I checked it before sending the email, fixed it in the
browser bar, but didn't fix the email.
Duh!!
Here's the correct URL:
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LED.html
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: LED experiment |
>For this thought model to be representative of reality, the distance from
each LED
>to the surface of the dome must be "large" compared to the distance between
each
>LED. Consider this: If the radius of the dome was 1meter (3feet), and
>each LED was mounted 0.01meters (1/4inch) from it's surface (evenly
distributed),
>the dome would have 67 discreet spots on it, which wouldn't look very
uniform.
>Eric, please correct me if I am wrong.
>Regards, Matt-
Matt---you are exactly right as always. Employing a bunch of conical
emitters to make a hemispherically smooth emitting light source is what I
was aiming at.
Thanks,
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Help with Visio 2000 |
All,
I have Visio 2000, professional edition. There is also a technical edition, and
I suspect the difference is the library of "solutions", or example templates.
Does anyone have a file of these for electrical schematics? I did download
the library of symbols kindly created by Chad Robinson.
I did sucessfully download fig.14 in .dwg format into the program, but I'm not
sure how to proceed, as I'm just learning Visio. I think I need an electric schematic
template, but I'm not sure.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED Tail Lights |
LED Tail Lights----
Dig out your books on solid geometry and photometry.
Okay, the FAA wants 20 cd in spherical wedge 70 degrees on each side of the
airplanes tail.
The area of the curved surface of this wedge at 1 meter radius is 4.9 m sq.
(The exercise is left to the student).
If the light source is 20 cd, then we expect 20 lux on this surface (you can
measure it with an incidence [lux] photometer).
So we need "X Lumens"/4.9 meters=20 cd. Solve for "X Lumens" and we get
about 100 lumens.
Now lumens (lm) are the standard unit of photometric Stuff---think of
lumens as real matter like oatmeal. Furthermore, Lumens/Watt is the
fundamental way of describing the efficiency of light sources; how much
light gets made from how much electricityand presently both high-efficiency
leds and tungsten-halogen lamps are in the 25 lumens/watt range.
This 100 lumens is easy to get in an LED like the Luxeon V Portable. This
LED is 5 Watts 88-120 lumens of white light and is the LED in my white LED
tail light. I have measure this and it satisfies the FAA requirements--but
without a huge margin. And this $45 LED dissipates 5 watts of heat. Keeping
the temperature down is critical to enjoying the LEDs long life.
So if one were to build a tail light out of SuperBright LEDs like RL5-W2545
(3750 mcd at 30mA , 45 degrees coverage), you would expect the same
dissipation per lumen--that is you would expect 5 watts of heat. Since the
package dissipates only 80 mW (and physically cannot be made to dissipate
more), you would expect 63 LEDs would be necessary. This is not in close
agreement particularly, with my earlier estimates, but we are only
estimating here from the heat loss given that both LEDs are about the same
efficiency, not the actual photometry. The Luxeon is spectacularly good
optically, while the 5 mm package of the RL5 is not so good and gets much
worse with adhesives and solventsso you would need a lot more LEDs.
I have shown this calculation elsewhere, so I won't whip that horse again
here.
My white LED tail light is designed to be used with the supplied current
regulator since there is a temperature coefficient involved in the LED and
any ballast resistor employed. Likewise the ageing characteristics might
change the current in way I could not entirely predictand aircraft
electrical systems can be a range of voltages. The current regulator is 700
mA +/- 1 mA over its temperature and voltage range.
Be aware that I would be the last person to pooh-pooh LED tail lights or any
other lights. I love them. But do the engineering involved before believing
that the job is done. Mythose shining lights do look convincing----but are
they right?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help with Visio 2000 |
James Foerster wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> I have Visio 2000, professional edition. There is also a technical
> edition, and I suspect the difference is the library of "solutions", or
> example templates. Does anyone have a file of these for electrical
> schematics? I did download the library of symbols kindly created by Chad
> Robinson.
>
> I did sucessfully download fig.14 in .dwg format into the program, but I'm
> not sure how to proceed, as I'm just learning Visio. I think I need an
> electric schematic template, but I'm not sure.
James, you don't need Technical Edition unless you want to import AutoCAD
files into Visio. In your case there should be no need, that was the purpose
of my work creating the stencil.
Open Visio and start a new drawing. Download the stencil file if you haven't
already, and use File->Open Stencil to open it. Then drag symbols from the
stencil into your drawing. Visio has a tool you can use to draw wires
connecting components, and there are tiny blue 'X' marks on each component
that act as endpoints for the wires. One nice feature of Visio is that if you
drag an object, connected wires follow it. Play around, you'll quickly get the
hang of the basics.
I have an example of my own planned system in the Orion->Chapter 22 portion of
my site. If it would help I can upload the Visio file for this, but since it's
based on a manual battery switch it's probably not too similar to what
everybody else is planning.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED Tail Lights |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> LED Tail Lights----
>
> Dig out your books on solid geometry and photometry.
>
> Okay, the FAA wants 20 cd in spherical wedge 70 degrees on each side of the
> airplanes tail.
>
> The area of the curved surface of this wedge at 1 meter radius is 4.9 m sq.
> (The exercise is left to the student).
>
The surface area of a sphere is 4*pi*r
2, or 12.56 in this case. We
only cover 140 degrees with the tail light, so (140/360)*12.56 is 4.88.
That's the easy part. Now consider that 20 degrees from the
horizontal, the light should only be at only half power, and drops of to
nearly nothing quickly thereafter. Full power should be confined to a
20x140 degree box on the sphere surface. An exact computation requires
a double integral, but 1/3rd of the area is close enough. Now we're
down to 1.6 or so.
> If the light source is 20 cd, then we expect 20 lux on this surface (you can
> measure it with an incidence [lux] photometer).
>
No, we don't expect that. You might, but I certainly wouldn't. One lux
is equal to 0.0929 footcandles. 20 footcandles would be only 1.9 lux.
> So we need "X Lumens"/4.9 meters=20 cd. Solve for "X Lumens" and we get
> about 100 lumens.
x = 1.6 / 1.858 = .86 lumen
>
> Now lumens (lm) are the standard unit of photometric Stuff---think of
> lumens as real matter like oatmeal. Furthermore, Lumens/Watt is the
> fundamental way of describing the efficiency of light sources; how much
> light gets made from how much electricityand presently both high-efficiency
> leds and tungsten-halogen lamps are in the 25 lumens/watt range.
>
> This 100 lumens is easy to get in an LED like the Luxeon V Portable. This
> LED is 5 Watts 88-120 lumens of white light and is the LED in my white LED
> tail light. I have measure this and it satisfies the FAA requirements--but
> without a huge margin. And this $45 LED dissipates 5 watts of heat. Keeping
> the temperature down is critical to enjoying the LEDs long life.
>
> So if one were to build a tail light out of SuperBright LEDs like RL5-W2545
> (3750 mcd at 30mA , 45 degrees coverage), you would expect the same
> dissipation per lumen--that is you would expect 5 watts of heat. Since the
> package dissipates only 80 mW (and physically cannot be made to dissipate
> more), you would expect 63 LEDs would be necessary. This is not in close
> agreement particularly, with my earlier estimates, but we are only
> estimating here from the heat loss given that both LEDs are about the same
> efficiency, not the actual photometry. The Luxeon is spectacularly good
> optically, while the 5 mm package of the RL5 is not so good and gets much
> worse with adhesives and solventsso you would need a lot more LEDs.
>
It's called efficacy and is just a measurement of the efficiency of a
light source. All modern clear LEDs going to be nearly identical. All
the Luxeon is a clever package that get more diodes into a confined
space. That is neither necessary or possibly even desirable in this
case. Consider putting a 3/8" radius on a piece of plexiglass and using
it on a trailing edge. Embed the LEDs and eliminate a couple bulges.
> I have shown this calculation elsewhere, so I won't whip that horse again
> here.
>
This returns us to the original need. Replacing a expensive light
(cost, maintanence and headache), that uses excess power to produce
> My white LED tail light is designed to be used with the supplied current
> regulator since there is a temperature coefficient involved in the LED and
> any ballast resistor employed. Likewise the ageing characteristics might
> change the current in way I could not entirely predictand aircraft
> electrical systems can be a range of voltages. The current regulator is 700
> mA +/- 1 mA over its temperature and voltage range.
>
I discussed how to allow for reasonable voltage variances, and the
operating temperature varies from -30 to +70 degrees Celcius. I'd bet
money that the components in your regulator aren't rated to operate very
far out of that range (and who want's to fly when the temps are over
140). The simple diode's characteristics will vary no more over it's
useful life than a regulator (the useful life hereby defined as the life
of the airframe). In this situation, the regulator is just a heating
element that provides you with nothing but additional failure modes.
> Be aware that I would be the last person to pooh-pooh LED tail lights or any
> other lights. I love them. But do the engineering involved before believing
> that the job is done. Mythose shining lights do look convincing----but are
> they right?
And when you do the engineering, either use metric or british
measurements throughout. It's unseemly to switch back and forth.
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | My Visio 2000 Stencil |
Hello all,
I've received numerous requests in the past few days for my Visio stencil of
the AeroElectric symbols. To anybody that may be looking for this file, please
drop by
http://www.lucubration.com/aero
and you can download the file from there. I ask only that you recognize Bob
Nuckolls' original efforts in creating these symbols in AutoCAD, and that if
you make changes to the stencil that you recontribute them so I can post
updated versions for everybody's benefit.
A few comments:
1. To use the stencil you need any edition of Visio 2000 or higher. Save the
stencil somewhere you can find it. Open Visio, create a new drawing, and click
File->Open Stencil. Browse for where you saved the file and select it. Then
drag symbols to your drawing and use the dynamic wire connector to draw wires.
2. You can adjust the thickness of wires and add labels to indicate their wire
sizes. For an example of this, see my diagram in Chapter 22 of the "Orion"
section of my site.
3. When you save and close your drawing, then re-open it, Visio should find
the stencil again as long as you haven't moved it.
4. Some of the symbols aren't quite perfect, especially with respect to the
text labels. Sometimes you have to click once and start typing to change a
label, and sometimes you have to click twice (but NOT double-click, wait a
second between clicks). For an example of this, see the battery or fuse
symbols, or the switches.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Come see us at OSH 2004 |
Dee and I will make the pilgrimage to OSH after about 8 years
hiatus. I'm scheduled to offer a forum in the tents on Saturday
at 2:30 p.m. We'd be pleased to meet face to face with any of
you who can join us.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net> |
Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can plug my
ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The aircraft is a RV7
(antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King KX125. Also, any information
regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mickey Billings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
Mickey -
A couple of solutions can be down-loaded from this page on Bob's website:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
See the sixth item down under the heading: "How-to Articles".
Good luck -
Bill
>
>Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can plug my
>ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The aircraft is a RV7
>(antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King KX125. Also, any information
>regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>Mickey Billings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mauri Morin" <maurv8(at)bigsky.net> |
Mickey,
Take alook at this and see if it will do your job.
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapter
Mauri Morin\
RV-8 wings/tanks
Polson, Mt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
> Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can plug my
> ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The aircraft is a RV7
> (antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King KX125. Also, any
information
> regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Mickey Billings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Reid" <AllTheGoodUseridsAreGone(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Suggestions for software to create simple wiring diagrams |
Hey folks
I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of "one
day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and maintenance
logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage and
wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap and
easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
Thanks for any and all suggestions,
Greg Reid ( http://www.divorcemagazine.com/Vision132 )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple |
wiring diagrams
Greg Reid wrote:
>
> Hey folks
>
> I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of "one
> day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and maintenance
> logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage and
> wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
>
> I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
> certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap and
> easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
Greg, there are inexpensive CAD packages available online, and Bob includes a
few demos (I believe) on his CD if you buy the Aeroelectric book. As another
option, if you have or can get a copy of Visio, I made a stencil set from
Bob's symbols that you can use there. I like Visio because it's easy to learn,
and lines stay connected when you drag symbols around (among other things).
http://www.lucubration.com/aero
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
wiring diagrams
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple |
wiring diagrams
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Greg Hi!
>>
>> I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
>> certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap and
>> easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
If you are an Apple user especially OSX it might be worth looking at
OmniGraffle Professional from http://www.omnigroup.com. About $89.00
You can try it as a Demo first
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax and Arplast CS Prop.
Engine and Prop getting near to starting.
Painting completed. Just vinyl design scheme to be added.
Completing Wiring to Panel.
Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
+44 7808 402404
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> simple wiring diagrams |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create |
simple wiring diagrams
simple wiring diagrams
>
>
>Hey folks
>
>I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of "one
>day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and maintenance
>logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage and
>wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
>
>I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
>certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap and
>easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
>
>Thanks for any and all suggestions,
> Greg Reid ( http://www.divorcemagazine.com/Vision132 )
How about free? You can download my CD offering at no
cost from http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/
There are three cad programs on the CD that will open,
edit, print and save any of the AutoCAD drawings also
included on the CD. There are a couple of wirebooks-in-progress
on the CD. I suspect that 90% or more of your wirebook is
already done. Just download the package and drop by a bookstore
for a used tutorial on one of the cad programs (the AutoCAD LT1.0
is my recommendation).
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> simple wiring diagrams |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create |
simple wiring diagrams
simple wiring diagrams
>
>Greg Reid wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey folks
> >
> > I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of "one
> > day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and maintenance
> > logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage and
> > wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
> >
> > I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
> > certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap and
> > easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
>
>Greg, there are inexpensive CAD packages available online, and Bob includes a
>few demos (I believe) on his CD if you buy the Aeroelectric book. . .
One doesn't need to buy anything to take advantage of the CD
data package. It's free at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/
If someone doesn't have access to a high-speed Internet connection,
we'll send a copy out for $10 but that's a nuisance fee . . . has
nothing to do with buying anything else from us.
Similarly, if anyone has copies of the CD via download, purchased,
or handed out at one of our seminars, feel free to duplicate and
distribute the CD to your local builder's community.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net> |
King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mauri
Morin
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
-->
Mickey,
Take alook at this and see if it will do your job.
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Ada
pter
Mauri Morin\
RV-8 wings/tanks
Polson, Mt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
> Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can
> plug my ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The
> aircraft is a RV7 (antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King KX125.
> Also, any
information
> regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Mickey Billings
>
>
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
Malcolm Thomson wrote:
>
>King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
>Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
>
>
>
These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the hand held
is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a second radio?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AutoCAD Attachment for Starter Switches |
>Hi Bob,
>
>Sorry the posting on the Matronics list didn't work; the AutoCAD file is
>attached to this message.
>
>The drawing shows a starter switch scheme I'm considering for my
>project. The idea is
>to have a separate 2-5 toggle switch (Off-On-(Start)) for each magneto. The
>12 volt power for the starter contactor coil comes from the main bus into the
>right mag switch and then to the left mag switch so that when both toggle
>switches
>are held in the top position, three things happen:
>
>1. The right, non-impulse, magneto is grounded.
>
>2. The left, impulse, magneto is not grounded.
>
>3. The starter contactor closes because the coil is energized and the starter
>engages.
>
>This is a modification of Z-11. It seems to me to provide the benefit of
>eliminating
>the need for a pushbutton starter switch. It also seems to provide the
>same benefit; namely, disabling the right mag during start.
>
>Any comments?
I guess I don't see what's driving your "modification" . . . Z-11 doesn't
show or need a separate push-button for starter. The mod you suggest
has the same "disadvantage" as a key-type switch. A rejected start
effort opens the start contacts of the right mag and immediately ungrounds
the right mag making it "hot". IF the mag decides to fire a cylinder (rare
but we think it happens) you get a BTDC ignition and kickback which has been
known to break starter parts.
This is why Figure Z-11 shows starter enabled and right mag grounded through
a switch that is not moved until AFTER the engine is running. I'd recommend
you stay with the published configuration.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Malcolm Thomson wrote:
>
>
> >
> >King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> >Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
> >
> >
> >
>These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the hand held
>is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
>antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a second radio?
There are no practical duplexers to allow simultaneous
use of a single antenna by two transceivers in airplanes.
The practical approach is to install two antennas or provide
a means for switching the single antenna between radios.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello Bobby,
I have a KX-125 and a Icom A-20 each with his own antenna wired to a GMA 340
audio pannel, however as the Icom is a bit an old radio I did need an
interface box which was designed by joe Fisher from flighttech, I'm happy
using the Icom as a second radio! The newer Icom's however should be able to
be connected directly.
I do have some pictures of this box if needed.
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
> Malcolm Thomson wrote:
>
> >
> >King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> >Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
> >
> >
> >
> These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the hand held
> is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
> antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a second
radio?
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
>
>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
>such a circuit from scratch.
>
>Thanks,
>Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Mark,
My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal which is
around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing simple
as hooking it up.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Steitle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
>
>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
>such a circuit from scratch.
>
>Thanks,
>Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Mark -
Contact Todd Stehouwer at Princeton Electronics. He makes converters that
interface with BMA's EFIS ONE. We have the Vision Microsystems probes and
I am told by the folks at EI that they are virtually identical to the EI
probes. The only difference is that the "electonics" are in a small bulge
outside of the probe while the VMS electronics module is in the housing.
(Guess which one we should have ordered?? :-(( ) Anyway, you run a wire
off of one of the 5 volt out pins on the EFIS CPU. Branch it to the probes
and take the signals back to pins 4&5, I believe, of Analog 1. I have some
of the thread in a word doc and can send it to you. But Todd should be
able to help. His modules ran $95 each and come with directions.
todds@princeton-electronics.com
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Trampas,
That would be great news. The BMA does have both low frequency and high
frequency channels. So, this would be low frequency? I guess I could try
that and see if it works. That would be too easy. ;-)
Mark
>
>Mark,
>
>My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal which is
>around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
>accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing simple
>as hooking it up.
>
>Regards,
>Trampas Stern
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>Steitle
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
> >and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
> >signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
> >my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
> >somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
> >confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
> >such a circuit from scratch.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Mark S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Reid" <AllTheGoodUseridsAreGone(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple wiring |
diagrams
Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I should've mentioned that
this is for a Windoze laptop. Bob, I did download and install the three
free CAD tools from your site:
- Acad Lt 1.0 installation apparently wants me to cut four floppy
disks?! I don't have a floppy at all.
- TurboCad execution is time-limited . and furthermore when it expired
on my laptop (I'd installed this from your site ages ago, and forgot
about it!) the forced "registration" step completely hung my laptop when
it was unable to reach the registration server (I use a proxy and
firewall) . couldn't even kill it with Task Manager . big red switch
time.
- IntelliCad 2000 seems pretty decent . used it to view Z11H . will have
to play with it some more
Meanwhile, last night I did a little Google'ing and came across
"SmartDraw", which seems to be well respected and supported, and used a
30-day trial copy to create my left wing wiring diagram quite nicely.
(I have no financial interest, etc. etc.) I'll keep playing with it to
see if it's worth purchasing. And I'll spend some time with IntelliCad
too.
Regards,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Coldenhoff <rv9a_000(at)deru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple |
wiring diagrams
Greg Reid wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I should've mentioned that
> this is for a Windoze laptop. Bob, I did download and install the three
> free CAD tools from your site:
I have a late entry for you - Design CAD Express.
Take a look at http://www.upperspace.com
The new version 15 is only $34.95.
This is a full featured CAD program. I bought a
copy and have created schematics, bracket designs,
and my panel layout with it. It will import and
export Autocad files (and some other formats).
--
Tim Coldenhoff
#90338 - Finishing!
http://rv9a.deru.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Location of GPS antenna |
Am I in any way compromising my GPS antenna reception (for a GNS 530) if I
place the antenna under my cowl about 10 inches from my SD-20 alternator? Is
there an "electrical" issue having it that close or near my LASAR ignition
wires? I see by the archives that many of you place your GPS antenna under your
cowl. Do any of you have an argument for not doing so?
Pete
RV-6, finishing engine instillation
Clearwater, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
> Dee and I will make the pilgrimage to OSH after about 8 years
> hiatus. I'm scheduled to offer a forum in the tents on Saturday
> at 2:30 p.m. We'd be pleased to meet face to face with any of
> you who can join us.
> Bob . . .
Hi Bob,
I am the Chairman in charge of the fun stuff (activities) at the Oshkosh
SeaBase. Saturday is a hectic day for me and I doubt if I can make your
seminar. We have a "Pig Roast" at the Base on Saturday. I am not directly in
charge of that event but have lots to do. I think it starts at 5PM. We are
also being host to a Murphy Aircraft group during the Friday evening fish
dinner. The dinner sold by the food vendor is open to all comers. If by
chance you get to the SeaBase for either of these (or any other time) you
could ask for me at the registration office and they will page me. If it is
convenient and works into your plans, I'd love to touch base and put a face
on the person who was so helpful with the wiring of my Murphy Moose
Side note: Had the EAA'ers at the hanger tonight. I installed the Moose atop
it's Aerocet Amphibs earlier in the day ... finally. Everyone was very
interested with the electrical architecture. "Where are the breakers" etc.
Thanks again for all your help,
Don Boardman
Rome, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | GPS Antenna Placement |
<< AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Am I in any way compromising my GPS antenna reception (for a GNS 530)
if I place the antenna under my cowl about 10 inches from my SD-20
alternator? Is there an "electrical" issue having it that close or near my LASAR
ignition wires? I see by the archives that many of you place your GPS antenna
under your cowl. Do any of you have an argument for not doing so? Pete>>
7/22/2004
Hello Pete, The instructions that came with the antenna for my Garmin 430 called
for a grandiose metal ground plane under the antenna. I called a Garmin tech
person and he told me to just put an aluminum shelf under my antenna to shield
it from some of the electrical / electronic garbage coming from below.
My GPS antenna is below a fiberglass fuselage shell on a small aluminum shelf just
aft of the stainless steel and plywood firewall not too far from a 60 amp
alternator on the rear of my engine. Works great.
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Trampas,
Well, no cigar for me. Tried hooking up the EI fuel probe signal lead to
the low frequency channel of the BMA and it didn't respond. As I
understand it, the EI outputs a 0-5v pulse-width modulation signal. It is
a square wave signal in the plus direction only which varies with changes
in capacitance. I don't know enough to go any further with this. So, I'll
inquire into purchasing a converter. There are a couple of sources,
neither of which is a low-buck solution, which is what I was hoping
for. But, at least there is a solution.
thanks,
Mark
>
>
>Trampas,
>That would be great news. The BMA does have both low frequency and high
>frequency channels. So, this would be low frequency? I guess I could try
>that and see if it works. That would be too easy. ;-)
>
>Mark
>
> >
> >Mark,
> >
> >My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal which is
> >around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
> >accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing simple
> >as hooking it up.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Trampas Stern
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> >Steitle
> >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
> > >and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
> > >signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
> > >my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
> > >somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
> > >confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
> > >such a circuit from scratch.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Mark S.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> Switches |
| Subject: | Re: AutoCAD Attachment for Starter |
Switches
Kind of sounds like the pre 1969 Piper Cherokee mag switch and starter push
button set up. Start on left mag, right off and push the starter button to
engage the starter, once running turn on the right mag. Using the right
switches it could be wired so that the right mag switch must be in the off
position to be able to energize the starter. The disadvantage is you can
forget to turn the right mag on after start up - what the key switch tried
to prevent.
jerb
>
>
>
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >Sorry the posting on the Matronics list didn't work; the AutoCAD file is
> >attached to this message.
> >
> >The drawing shows a starter switch scheme I'm considering for my
> >project. The idea is
> >to have a separate 2-5 toggle switch (Off-On-(Start)) for each magneto. The
> >12 volt power for the starter contactor coil comes from the main bus
> into the
> >right mag switch and then to the left mag switch so that when both toggle
> >switches
> >are held in the top position, three things happen:
> >
> >1. The right, non-impulse, magneto is grounded.
> >
> >2. The left, impulse, magneto is not grounded.
> >
> >3. The starter contactor closes because the coil is energized and the
> starter
> >engages.
> >
> >This is a modification of Z-11. It seems to me to provide the benefit of
> >eliminating
> >the need for a pushbutton starter switch. It also seems to provide the
> >same benefit; namely, disabling the right mag during start.
> >
> >Any comments?
>
> I guess I don't see what's driving your "modification" . . . Z-11 doesn't
> show or need a separate push-button for starter. The mod you suggest
> has the same "disadvantage" as a key-type switch. A rejected start
> effort opens the start contacts of the right mag and immediately ungrounds
> the right mag making it "hot". IF the mag decides to fire a cylinder (rare
> but we think it happens) you get a BTDC ignition and kickback which has
> been
> known to break starter parts.
>
> This is why Figure Z-11 shows starter enabled and right mag grounded
> through
> a switch that is not moved until AFTER the engine is running. I'd recommend
> you stay with the published configuration.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create |
>Bob:
>I've downloaded the CD and extracted the AutoCAD LT1.0 but if I "click" on
>the *.exe files, it tries to extract again. What do I do to start up
>AutoCad Lt1.0?
>Marty
In the LT1.0 directory there is a file called makeset.bat
You need 4 floppy disks. Doubleclick makeset.bat and follow
instructions to insert floppies one at a time. When all four
have been written, you will have a pristine install-set for
the cad program.
Put disk #1 in your a:drive and doubleclick setup.exe which
will being the install program to put the cad program on
your hard drive.
When finished, you can open the AutoCAD program and then
open the .dwg files with it. Check in some used book stores
for some AutoCAD LT tutorials.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> simple wiring diagrams |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create |
simple wiring diagrams
simple wiring diagrams
>
>
>Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I should've mentioned that
>this is for a Windoze laptop. Bob, I did download and install the three
>free CAD tools from your site:
>
>
>- Acad Lt 1.0 installation apparently wants me to cut four floppy
>disks?! I don't have a floppy at all.
Ebay has dozens of USB floppy drives for $25 or less.
>
>
>
>Meanwhile, last night I did a little Google'ing and came across
>"SmartDraw", which seems to be well respected and supported, and used a
>30-day trial copy to create my left wing wiring diagram quite nicely.
>(I have no financial interest, etc. etc.) I'll keep playing with it to
>see if it's worth purchasing. And I'll spend some time with IntelliCad
>too.
Very good. I'll be interested in your findings.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob at Oshkosh |
>
> > Dee and I will make the pilgrimage to OSH after about 8 years
> > hiatus. I'm scheduled to offer a forum in the tents on Saturday
> > at 2:30 p.m. We'd be pleased to meet face to face with any of
> > you who can join us.
>
> > Bob . . .
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am the Chairman in charge of the fun stuff (activities) at the Oshkosh
>SeaBase. Saturday is a hectic day for me and I doubt if I can make your
>seminar. We have a "Pig Roast" at the Base on Saturday. I am not directly in
>charge of that event but have lots to do. I think it starts at 5PM. We are
>also being host to a Murphy Aircraft group during the Friday evening fish
>dinner. The dinner sold by the food vendor is open to all comers. If by
>chance you get to the SeaBase for either of these (or any other time) you
>could ask for me at the registration office and they will page me. If it is
>convenient and works into your plans, I'd love to touch base and put a face
>on the person who was so helpful with the wiring of my Murphy Moose
Thanks for the invitation. It's doubtful that I'm going to have much
evening time open. I've been invited to talk at several gaterings
and we're working to see if I can accommodate any of them and still
take care of essentials.
>Side note: Had the EAA'ers at the hanger tonight. I installed the Moose atop
>it's Aerocet Amphibs earlier in the day ... finally. Everyone was very
>interested with the electrical architecture. "Where are the breakers" etc.
>
>Thanks again for all your help,
You're most welcome. I'm pleased that you find the work useful.
Don't have any Northeast seminars scheduled. Any chance your
local EAA chapter would like to host one?
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Mark,
For a conversion of pulse width modulation signal into DC signal you
do not need any high dollar converters. You need a signal averager which
most likely can be made out of a resistor and capacitor.
There are three questions here: 1) what is the frequency of PWM pulses
from the sensor and 2) what is the input resistance of the indicator, 3)
what is the output resistance of the sensor.
Large input resistance of the indicator is very likely in your system
and that would make your project easy, a simple RC circuit with a time
constant of a fraction of a second would work.
I doubt that ithe frequency of the PWM signal would be lower than 100Hz.
Assuming such a low frequency as the worst case, a 0.1 second time
constant integrator would be sufficient. Such time constant can be made
by 10 kiloohms with 10 microfarads, or 1 kiloohm with 100 microfarads.
etc.. The last pair would work better in case of really low input
resistance of the indicator. You can always use a bigger capacitor, that
would provide larger time constant and better averaging. If it happened
that you had a higher frequency from the sensor it would make
operation of the system better.
Connect together the grounds of the PWM sensor and the indicator.
Connect the PWM sensor output through the resistor to the input of the
indicator. Connect the capacitor acress the input of the indicator. The
network would convert the PWM pulsed signal into almost DC signal with
voltage proportional to the length of the pulses. That should convince
the system to work.
For the unlikely case of a very small input resistance of the indicator
together with a large output resistance of the sensor, you would have
to hook up an opamp wired as a follower in front of the indicator,
which would increase input resistance of the indicator.
Jerzy
Mark Steitle wrote:
>
>Trampas,
>Well, no cigar for me. Tried hooking up the EI fuel probe signal lead to
>the low frequency channel of the BMA and it didn't respond. As I
>understand it, the EI outputs a 0-5v pulse-width modulation signal. It is
>a square wave signal in the plus direction only which varies with changes
>in capacitance. I don't know enough to go any further with this. So, I'll
>inquire into purchasing a converter. There are a couple of sources,
>neither of which is a low-buck solution, which is what I was hoping
>for. But, at least there is a solution.
>
>thanks,
>Mark
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Trampas,
>>That would be great news. The BMA does have both low frequency and high
>>frequency channels. So, this would be low frequency? I guess I could try
>>that and see if it works. That would be too easy. ;-)
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal which is
>>>around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
>>>accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing simple
>>>as hooking it up.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Trampas Stern
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>>>Steitle
>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
>>>>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
>>>>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
>>>>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
>>>>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
>>>>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
>>>>such a circuit from scratch.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Mark S.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple wiring |
diagrams /
Linux
By the way, all of the CAD programs mentioned are Windows applications. I'm
not a Linux bigot but I do run it and it occurred to me that there might be
others that do as well. If you're one of them, check out a program called
"Qcad". There is a GPL version available for free and the application is quite
good. It can only open DXF files (not DWG), but there are free converters out
there to translate between the two. I use Qcad for all my light-duty CAD
requirements.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Jerzy,
Thanks for the fine explanation. From reviewing the pics I took off the
scope, it looks like the pulse is 5.6v and varies between 200us and 390us,
depending on fuel level. I'm working on this with an EE friend that
suggested essentially the same solution as yours. Sounds like the way to
go. Thanks for the help.
Mark S.
>
>
>Mark,
>For a conversion of pulse width modulation signal into DC signal you
>do not need any high dollar converters. You need a signal averager which
>most likely can be made out of a resistor and capacitor.
>
>There are three questions here: 1) what is the frequency of PWM pulses
>from the sensor and 2) what is the input resistance of the indicator, 3)
>what is the output resistance of the sensor.
>
> Large input resistance of the indicator is very likely in your system
>and that would make your project easy, a simple RC circuit with a time
>constant of a fraction of a second would work.
>
> I doubt that ithe frequency of the PWM signal would be lower than 100Hz.
>Assuming such a low frequency as the worst case, a 0.1 second time
>constant integrator would be sufficient. Such time constant can be made
>by 10 kiloohms with 10 microfarads, or 1 kiloohm with 100 microfarads.
>etc.. The last pair would work better in case of really low input
>resistance of the indicator. You can always use a bigger capacitor, that
>would provide larger time constant and better averaging. If it happened
>that you had a higher frequency from the sensor it would make
>operation of the system better.
>
>Connect together the grounds of the PWM sensor and the indicator.
>Connect the PWM sensor output through the resistor to the input of the
>indicator. Connect the capacitor acress the input of the indicator. The
>network would convert the PWM pulsed signal into almost DC signal with
>voltage proportional to the length of the pulses. That should convince
>the system to work.
>
>For the unlikely case of a very small input resistance of the indicator
>together with a large output resistance of the sensor, you would have
>to hook up an opamp wired as a follower in front of the indicator,
>which would increase input resistance of the indicator.
>Jerzy
>
>Mark Steitle wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Trampas,
> >Well, no cigar for me. Tried hooking up the EI fuel probe signal lead to
> >the low frequency channel of the BMA and it didn't respond. As I
> >understand it, the EI outputs a 0-5v pulse-width modulation signal. It is
> >a square wave signal in the plus direction only which varies with changes
> >in capacitance. I don't know enough to go any further with this. So, I'll
> >inquire into purchasing a converter. There are a couple of sources,
> >neither of which is a low-buck solution, which is what I was hoping
> >for. But, at least there is a solution.
> >
> >thanks,
> >Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Trampas,
> >>That would be great news. The BMA does have both low frequency and high
> >>frequency channels. So, this would be low frequency? I guess I could try
> >>that and see if it works. That would be too easy. ;-)
> >>
> >>Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Mark,
> >>>
> >>>My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal
> which is
> >>>around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
> >>>accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing
> simple
> >>>as hooking it up.
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Trampas Stern
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> >>>Steitle
> >>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
> >>>>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
> >>>>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
> >>>>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
> >>>>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
> >>>>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to
> design
> >>>>such a circuit from scratch.
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks,
> >>>>Mark S.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Mark,
Of course, you might still have a problem of shifted zero and mismatch
of ranges. One opamp for a dollar or so woyuld solve this problem.
Jerzy
Jerzy Krasinski wrote:
>
>Mark,
>For a conversion of pulse width modulation signal into DC signal you
>do not need any high dollar converters. You need a signal averager which
>most likely can be made out of a resistor and capacitor.
>
>There are three questions here: 1) what is the frequency of PWM pulses
>from the sensor and 2) what is the input resistance of the indicator, 3)
>what is the output resistance of the sensor.
>
> Large input resistance of the indicator is very likely in your system
>and that would make your project easy, a simple RC circuit with a time
>constant of a fraction of a second would work.
>
> I doubt that ithe frequency of the PWM signal would be lower than 100Hz.
>Assuming such a low frequency as the worst case, a 0.1 second time
>constant integrator would be sufficient. Such time constant can be made
>by 10 kiloohms with 10 microfarads, or 1 kiloohm with 100 microfarads.
>etc.. The last pair would work better in case of really low input
>resistance of the indicator. You can always use a bigger capacitor, that
>would provide larger time constant and better averaging. If it happened
>that you had a higher frequency from the sensor it would make
>operation of the system better.
>
>Connect together the grounds of the PWM sensor and the indicator.
>Connect the PWM sensor output through the resistor to the input of the
>indicator. Connect the capacitor acress the input of the indicator. The
>network would convert the PWM pulsed signal into almost DC signal with
>voltage proportional to the length of the pulses. That should convince
>the system to work.
>
>For the unlikely case of a very small input resistance of the indicator
>together with a large output resistance of the sensor, you would have
>to hook up an opamp wired as a follower in front of the indicator,
>which would increase input resistance of the indicator.
>Jerzy
>
>Mark Steitle wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Trampas,
>>Well, no cigar for me. Tried hooking up the EI fuel probe signal lead to
>>the low frequency channel of the BMA and it didn't respond. As I
>>understand it, the EI outputs a 0-5v pulse-width modulation signal. It is
>>a square wave signal in the plus direction only which varies with changes
>>in capacitance. I don't know enough to go any further with this. So, I'll
>>inquire into purchasing a converter. There are a couple of sources,
>>neither of which is a low-buck solution, which is what I was hoping
>>for. But, at least there is a solution.
>>
>>thanks,
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Trampas,
>>>That would be great news. The BMA does have both low frequency and high
>>>frequency channels. So, this would be low frequency? I guess I could try
>>>that and see if it works. That would be too easy. ;-)
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mark,
>>>>
>>>>My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal which is
>>>>around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
>>>>accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing simple
>>>>as hooking it up.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Trampas Stern
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>>>>Steitle
>>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
>>>>>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
>>>>>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
>>>>>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
>>>>>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
>>>>>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
>>>>>such a circuit from scratch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Mark S.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 07/20/04 |
| From: | Stuart S Driver <stuart_38(at)juno.com> |
If anyone has a copy of Bob's CD I'd be happy to pay the postage. I don't
have the high speed connection to download it TIA SSD
writes:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can be also be found in
> either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
> Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
> ASCII
> version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a
> generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-Lis
t.2004-07-20.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-Lis
t.2004-07-20.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 07/20/04: 11
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:26 AM - Re: Splitter (Mauri Morin)
> 2. 10:41 AM - Suggestions for software to create simple wiring
> diagrams (Greg Reid)
> 3. 11:34 AM - Re: Suggestions for software to create simple
> (Chad Robinson)
> 4. 12:04 PM - Re: Suggestions for software to create simple
> (Gerry Holland)
> 5. 12:59 PM - Re: Suggestions for software to create (Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III)
> 6. 01:01 PM - Re: Suggestions for software to create (Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III)
> 7. 05:01 PM - Re: Splitter (Malcolm Thomson)
> 8. 08:06 PM - Re: Splitter (Bobby Hester)
> 9. 08:37 PM - Re: AutoCAD Attachment for Starter Switches
> (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 10. 08:44 PM - Re: Splitter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 11. 10:13 PM - Re: Splitter (Werner Schneider)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Mauri Morin" <maurv8(at)bigsky.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> Mickey,
>
> Take alook at this and see if it will do your job.
>
>
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adap
ter
>
> Mauri Morin\
> RV-8 wings/tanks
> Polson, Mt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> >
> > Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can
> plug my
> > ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The aircraft
> is a RV7
> > (antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King KX125. Also, any
> information
> > regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mickey Billings
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Greg Reid" <AllTheGoodUseridsAreGone(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Suggestions for software to create
> simple wiring diagrams
>
>
>
> Hey folks
>
> I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of
> "one
> day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and
> maintenance
> logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage
> and
> wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
>
> I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that will
> certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a cheap
> and
> easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
>
> Thanks for any and all suggestions,
> Greg Reid ( http://www.divorcemagazine.com/Vision132 )
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suggestions for software to create
> simple
> wiring diagrams
>
>
>
> Greg Reid wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey folks
> >
> > I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of
> "one
> > day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and
> maintenance
> > logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage
> and
> > wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
> >
> > I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that
> will
> > certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a
> cheap and
> > easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
>
> Greg, there are inexpensive CAD packages available online, and Bob
> includes a
> few demos (I believe) on his CD if you buy the Aeroelectric book. As
> another
> option, if you have or can get a copy of Visio, I made a stencil set
> from
> Bob's symbols that you can use there. I like Visio because it's easy
> to learn,
>
> and lines stay connected when you drag symbols around (among other
> things).
>
> http://www.lucubration.com/aero
>
> Regards,
> Chad
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> wiring diagrams
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suggestions for software to create
> simple
> wiring diagrams
> From: Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com>
>
>
>
> Greg Hi!
> >>
> >> I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that
> will
> >> certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a
> cheap and
> >> easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
>
> If you are an Apple user especially OSX it might be worth looking
> at
> OmniGraffle Professional from http://www.omnigroup.com. About
> $89.00
> You can try it as a Demo first
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry
>
> a 384 G-FIZY
> Trigear with Rotax and Arplast CS Prop.
> Engine and Prop getting near to starting.
> Painting completed. Just vinyl design scheme to be added.
> Completing Wiring to Panel.
> Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
> PSS AoA Fitted.
>
> http://www.g-fizy.com
> +44 7808 402404
> gnholland(at)onetel.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> simple wiring diagrams
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suggestions for software to create
> simple wiring diagrams
>
>
> simple wiring diagrams
>
>
> >
> >
> >Hey folks
> >
> >I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent of
> "one
> >day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and
> maintenance
> >logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my fuselage
> and
> >wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
> >
> >I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that
> will
> >certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a
> cheap and
> >easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
> >
> >Thanks for any and all suggestions,
> > Greg Reid ( http://www.divorcemagazine.com/Vision132 )
>
> How about free? You can download my CD offering at no
> cost from http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/
>
> There are three cad programs on the CD that will open,
> edit, print and save any of the AutoCAD drawings also
> included on the CD. There are a couple of
> wirebooks-in-progress
> on the CD. I suspect that 90% or more of your wirebook is
> already done. Just download the package and drop by a
> bookstore
> for a used tutorial on one of the cad programs (the AutoCAD
> LT1.0
> is my recommendation).
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> simple wiring diagrams
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suggestions for software to create
> simple wiring diagrams
>
>
> simple wiring diagrams
>
>
>
> >
> >Greg Reid wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hey folks
> > >
> > > I've been keeping my wiring diagrams on paper, with the intent
> of "one
> > > day" getting them properly recorded for my construction and
> maintenance
> > > logs. That day is fast approaching, as I've completed my
> fuselage and
> > > wing wiring (nothing much FWF or panel as yet.)
> > >
> > > I know that there are several-hundred-dollar CAD programs that
> will
> > > certainly do the trick, with plenty of overkill. But what's a
> cheap and
> > > easy program to use for simple hookup diagrams?
> >
> >Greg, there are inexpensive CAD packages available online, and Bob
> includes a
> >few demos (I believe) on his CD if you buy the Aeroelectric book. .
> .
>
>
> One doesn't need to buy anything to take advantage of the CD
> data package. It's free at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD/
>
> If someone doesn't have access to a high-speed Internet
> connection,
> we'll send a copy out for $10 but that's a nuisance fee . . .
> has
> nothing to do with buying anything else from us.
>
> Similarly, if anyone has copies of the CD via download,
> purchased,
> or handed out at one of our seminars, feel free to duplicate
> and
> distribute the CD to your local builder's community.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mdthomson(at)attglobal.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mauri
> Morin
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
> -->
>
> Mickey,
>
> Take alook at this and see if it will do your job.
>
>
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Ada
> pter
>
> Mauri Morin\
> RV-8 wings/tanks
> Polson, Mt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> >
> > Does anyone know of a drawing to build a antenna switcher so I can
>
> > plug my ICOM handheld into the aircraft antenna if needed? The
> > aircraft is a RV7 (antenna not yet mounted) the radio is a King
> KX125.
>
> > Also, any
> information
> > regarding signal loss due to this device would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mickey Billings
> >
> >
>
>
> ==
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> Malcolm Thomson wrote:
>
>
> >
> >King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> >Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
> >
> >
> >
> These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the hand
> held
> is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
> antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a second
> radio?
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at:
> http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AutoCAD Attachment for Starter
> Switches
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >Sorry the posting on the Matronics list didn't work; the AutoCAD
> file is
> >attached to this message.
> >
> >The drawing shows a starter switch scheme I'm considering for my
> >project. The idea is
> >to have a separate 2-5 toggle switch (Off-On-(Start)) for each
> magneto. The
> >12 volt power for the starter contactor coil comes from the main
> bus into the
> >right mag switch and then to the left mag switch so that when both
> toggle
> >switches
> >are held in the top position, three things happen:
> >
> >1. The right, non-impulse, magneto is grounded.
> >
> >2. The left, impulse, magneto is not grounded.
> >
> >3. The starter contactor closes because the coil is energized and
> the starter
> >engages.
> >
> >This is a modification of Z-11. It seems to me to provide the
> benefit of
> >eliminating
> >the need for a pushbutton starter switch. It also seems to provide
> the
> >same benefit; namely, disabling the right mag during start.
> >
> >Any comments?
>
> I guess I don't see what's driving your "modification" . . . Z-11
> doesn't
> show or need a separate push-button for starter. The mod you
> suggest
> has the same "disadvantage" as a key-type switch. A rejected
> start
> effort opens the start contacts of the right mag and immediately
> ungrounds
> the right mag making it "hot". IF the mag decides to fire a
> cylinder (rare
> but we think it happens) you get a BTDC ignition and kickback
> which has been
> known to break starter parts.
>
> This is why Figure Z-11 shows starter enabled and right mag
> grounded through
> a switch that is not moved until AFTER the engine is running. I'd
> recommend
> you stay with the published configuration.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
> ____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Malcolm Thomson wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> > >Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the hand
> held
> >is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
> >antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a second
> radio?
>
> There are no practical duplexers to allow simultaneous
> use of a single antenna by two transceivers in airplanes.
> The practical approach is to install two antennas or provide
> a means for switching the single antenna between radios.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
> ____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> Hello Bobby,
>
> I have a KX-125 and a Icom A-20 each with his own antenna wired to a
> GMA 340
> audio pannel, however as the Icom is a bit an old radio I did need
> an
> interface box which was designed by joe Fisher from flighttech, I'm
> happy
> using the Icom as a second radio! The newer Icom's however should be
> able to
> be connected directly.
>
> I do have some pictures of this box if needed.
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splitter
>
>
>
> >
> > Malcolm Thomson wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > >King makes an adapter for this purpose. KX-99A costs about $55.
> > >Icom also has one IC-ANT-SB about the same price.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > These devises brake the connection to the main radio while the
> hand held
> > is connected. If you want to be able to use both do you need two
> > antennas? Can a hand held be wired thru your audio panel as a
> second
> radio?
> >
> > --
> > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> > Visit my web site at:
> http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> > RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
Cheers,
I've been mulling ovwer the late email exchange regarding the above
topic.
It occurs to me that using the cockpit air pressure for static
source dates back to WWII or ealier as an alternate source when the static
system iced up or otherwise - not an infrequent event. The answer was to
crack the dial glass to get a reasonable facsimile of static pressure BUT
you then had to stall the aircraft to establish the new datum before landing
so as not to depend on a revised indication.
The same would apply here so if you get a reasonable reading DON'T
crack a side window open or change the airflow to the cabin - airspeed is
pitot over static so don't fool with Mother Nature on the bottom of the
formula.
I am hesitant to use the cockpit because I am intent on pressurising
it slightly to avoid exhaust intake through the slits etc. Also if hot plus
cold air mix is twice greater than outlet total you have better temp control
and smoke dispersement if something in the cockpit lets it out.
....just a thought - open to flames............
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <beecho(at)beecho.org> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
Ferg
"Great Minds,...." Your thoughts of slightly pressurizing the cockpit
is exactly what I have been planning. (or doing) I have a naca duct in
the cowl as far forward as practical to get prop blast providing fresh
air under some pressure. The air flow can be controlled and heated to
get the right combo, but I plan to keep it at least partially open
always to provide the positive pressure. (Even though many in the past
have said that the cockpit seems to be naturally under positive
pressure.)
Tom (Getting closer to the blue.) (And begging for a ride to OSH, to
the point of buying the fuel.....)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fergus Kyle
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternate static source
Cheers,
I've been mulling ovwer the late email exchange regarding the
above
topic.
It occurs to me that using the cockpit air pressure for static
source dates back to WWII or ealier as an alternate source when the
static
system iced up or otherwise - not an infrequent event. The answer was to
crack the dial glass to get a reasonable facsimile of static pressure
BUT
you then had to stall the aircraft to establish the new datum before
landing
so as not to depend on a revised indication.
The same would apply here so if you get a reasonable reading
DON'T
crack a side window open or change the airflow to the cabin - airspeed
is
pitot over static so don't fool with Mother Nature on the bottom of the
formula.
I am hesitant to use the cockpit because I am intent on
pressurising
it slightly to avoid exhaust intake through the slits etc. Also if hot
plus
cold air mix is twice greater than outlet total you have better temp
control
and smoke dispersement if something in the cockpit lets it out.
....just a thought - open to flames............
Ferg A064
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
snipped
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
>>>>>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
>>>>>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal that
>>>>>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
>>>>>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
>>>>>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to design
>>>>>such a circuit from scratch.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Mark S.
>>>>>
Kitplanes Sept. '89, or download it at
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/articles/KP89SEP.pdf
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NEMuzzy" <list01(at)GourmetDamage.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestions for software to create simple wiring |
Powerpoint works reasonable well also. Create your basic symbols, group
them so they act like one entity, put them on the first page, then copy and
paste.
Make a different slide for each circuit. It is much easier to keep it neat
and organized that way. I like the big massive drawings, with every circuit
on one page. But they are a nightmare to create and to maintain.
I also used Excel to keep track of the fuse blocks. Sized everything such
that I could print the excel file and use it as the label on the fuseblocks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Maher <lilabner_45(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Schematic (not just pinout) for KX-170B? |
Does anyone know where I can find an actual schematic for a King
KX-170B Nav.comm?
I have the complete installation manual. It has a number of pinout
diagrams showing connections to various indicators etc. But nothing
that explains what the various King signals do. A schematic would be
very helpful.
Thanks all,
Steve Maher
San Diego, CA
__________________________________
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Schattauer" <chasm711(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate static source |
Fergus
Icing of the static ports is uncommon but if you are worried about it and
plan to fly IFR...install an alternate static valve in the cockpit and just
test fly the indications with both sources, I don't think you will find
much difference. But whatever the difference is you will know it and be
able to compensate for it. My solution was a Gretz aero heated pitot and
static tube all in one.
Paul
>From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternate static source
>Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:43:56 -0400
>
>
>Cheers,
> I've been mulling ovwer the late email exchange regarding the
>above
>topic.
> It occurs to me that using the cockpit air pressure for static
>source dates back to WWII or ealier as an alternate source when the static
>system iced up or otherwise - not an infrequent event. The answer was to
>crack the dial glass to get a reasonable facsimile of static pressure BUT
>you then had to stall the aircraft to establish the new datum before
>landing
>so as not to depend on a revised indication.
> The same would apply here so if you get a reasonable reading DON'T
>crack a side window open or change the airflow to the cabin - airspeed is
>pitot over static so don't fool with Mother Nature on the bottom of the
>formula.
> I am hesitant to use the cockpit because I am intent on
>pressurising
>it slightly to avoid exhaust intake through the slits etc. Also if hot plus
>cold air mix is twice greater than outlet total you have better temp
>control
>and smoke dispersement if something in the cockpit lets it out.
> ....just a thought - open to flames............
>Ferg A064
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mickey Billings" <mbilli(at)cox.net> |
Does anyone know if I can use a fair DC power supply in the airplane to power my
KMD 150 GPS without damaging the GPS in order to spend some time learning some
of it's features? The power supply I have is 12v DC with no other adjustments.
I am however willing to purchase another unit if necessary.
Many Thanks
Mickey Billings RV&
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Possible OV condition with Z 16 diagram ? |
Hi Bob and all,
The completion of our four seater is not far now, and the time will come for
the first start up.
We have a Rotax 914 wired as per fig Z 16 with dual battery. Some fellow
builders have already flown their own projects, and have been aware of a
possible snag with the OV wiring and the Rotax regulator as well as the
Schicke GR4 regulator. They have been experiencing alarming OV conditions on
shutdown.
Scenario :
According to fig Z 16 the regulator "sense" wire (C wire) is connected to
the bus through the S700-2-10 master switch. When one opens the master or
the OV module fires, the sense wire sees zero volt.
The regulator then throws the full alternator output at the capacitor
through the wires B and R. The capacitor is rated for 25 volts and could
suffer from the 60-100 volts.
The scenario is quite similar with the Schicke regulator.
To prevent this condition one could connect the sense wire (C wire) directly
to the capacitor, and not to the master switch. Thus the regulator always
sees a load and no ill effect is produced when the master is opened.
What is your opinion about this variation on the Z 16 theme ? Doable, not
doable ?
Thank you,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry <larry(at)grrok.com> |
Why not use a 12 vdc battery in your system between the power supply and
the KMD 150.
At 10:04 PM 7/23/2004, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know if I can use a fair DC power supply in the airplane to
>power my KMD 150 GPS without damaging the GPS in order to spend some time
>learning some of it's features? The power supply I have is 12v DC with no
>other adjustments. I am however willing to purchase another unit if necessary.
>
>Many Thanks
>
>Mickey Billings RV&
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm working on an experimental plane that has the gascolator between the
Weldon high pressure electric pump and the mechanical fuel pump. It has a PS5C
pressure carb.
I always have seen the gascolator on the low pressure (suction) side of the
fuel pumps.
Has anyone seen this type of setup for a pressure carb?
Is it correct?
Any comments?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: single ground question |
I think that I understand that a single ground for the avionics and
electrical instruments is best.
Does the cabin and instrument lighting need the signel ground also?
I remember a comment by Bob that it would be best to run the bus avionics
directly to the battery, as a sort of electronic shock absorber. Assuming that
it is impossible to run the positive bus lead directly to the battery, would
there be any point in running just the negative lead directly to the
battery? I think my ai will sign this off as a minor mod, since "its only the
ground"....
Thank you for your thoughts. Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: <KahnSG(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gascolator
>
> I'm working on an experimental plane that has the gascolator between the
> Weldon high pressure electric pump and the mechanical fuel pump. It has a
PS5C
> pressure carb.
> I always have seen the gascolator on the low pressure (suction) side of
the
> fuel pumps.
> Has anyone seen this type of setup for a pressure carb?
> Is it correct?
> Any comments?
>
> Steve
(((((((((()))))))))))))
Yes, this is how Vans Aircraft design their latest planes. Pressure is
needed to push gas into the gascolator when you periodically purge/clean the
gascolator. Do this by turning on the electric pump and pushing on the
release valve of the gascolator.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Why would you want to do that? Advantages??
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "larry" <larry(at)grrok.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KMD 150
>
> Why not use a 12 vdc battery in your system between the power supply and
> the KMD 150.
>
> At 10:04 PM 7/23/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >Does anyone know if I can use a fair DC power supply in the airplane to
> >power my KMD 150 GPS without damaging the GPS in order to spend some time
> >learning some of it's features? The power supply I have is 12v DC with
no
> >other adjustments. I am however willing to purchase another unit if
necessary.
> >
> >Many Thanks
> >
> >Mickey Billings RV&
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/24/2004 6:05:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
KahnSG(at)aol.com writes:
>
> I'm working on an experimental plane that has the gascolator between the
> Weldon high pressure electric pump and the mechanical fuel pump. It has a
> PS5C
> pressure carb.
> I always have seen the gascolator on the low pressure (suction) side of the
> fuel pumps.
> Has anyone seen this type of setup for a pressure carb?
> Is it correct?
> Any comments?
>
> Steve
>
Probably not a good idea. It would be better to mount it upstream of the
high pressure pump.
Ben Haas N801BH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
As far as I know that is the normal position. The gascolator is on the
suction side of the engine-driven pump, but is pressurized by the electric
pump. I'm not sure if all gascolators are rated for pressurization at any
pressure, though. I believe that the pressure in the system is between 20
and 30 psi, but I'm also not sure about that.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
KahnSG(at)aol.com wrote:
> I'm working on an experimental plane that has the gascolator between the
> Weldon high pressure electric pump and the mechanical fuel pump.
> ...
> Is it correct?
In my opinion, no. Water and contaminants should be able to get to the gascolator
by gravity feed. That is why the gascolator is at the low-point in the fuel
system. Crap in the tanks runs downhill to the gascolator where you can drain
it out before it even gets to the pump.
If you put the electric pump in the system before the gascolator, the springs in
the valves in the pump will hold the valves closed against the slight pressure
of the water and contaminants so they won't reach the gascolator until after
you turn on the electric fuel pump and start the engine.
OTOH, if you turn on the electric pump before draining the gascolator the pump
will force contaminants into the gascolator that might not otherwise get there
until later so I can see an advantage there. Just be careful about the high-pressure
jet that will come out of the gascolator drain if the electric fuel pump
is turned on.
Upon further reflection I think both will work so long as you understand and accommodate
their limitations.
As for "high pressure" and pressure carbs, are you sure it needs "high pressure"?
The pressure carbs I deal with operate at 5-7 PSI input pressure normally.
Have you checked the manufacturer's recommendation for proper input pressure?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Visio 2000 Stencil |
Chad, This sounds interesting but I can only find a "pay for subscription" link for Visio 2000-2003. Is there a free program anywhere? I've looked at www.downloads.com but there's so many to choose from. A few have a free try, $300 to buy download but that would be annoying. Any info?
Dave
N118DG
----- Original Message -----
From: Chad Robinson
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 11:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: My Visio 2000 Stencil
Hello all,
I've received numerous requests in the past few days for my Visio stencil of
the AeroElectric symbols. To anybody that may be looking for this file, please
drop by
http://www.lucubration.com/aero
and you can download the file from there. I ask only that you recognize Bob
Nuckolls' original efforts in creating these symbols in AutoCAD, and that if
you make changes to the stencil that you recontribute them so I can post
updated versions for everybody's benefit.
A few comments:
1. To use the stencil you need any edition of Visio 2000 or higher. Save the
stencil somewhere you can find it. Open Visio, create a new drawing, and click
File->Open Stencil. Browse for where you saved the file and select it. Then
drag symbols to your drawing and use the dynamic wire connector to draw wires.
2. You can adjust the thickness of wires and add labels to indicate their wire
sizes. For an example of this, see my diagram in Chapter 22 of the "Orion"
section of my site.
3. When you save and close your drawing, then re-open it, Visio should find
the stencil again as long as you haven't moved it.
4. Some of the symbols aren't quite perfect, especially with respect to the
text labels. Sometimes you have to click once and start typing to change a
label, and sometimes you have to click twice (but NOT double-click, wait a
second between clicks). For an example of this, see the battery or fuse
symbols, or the switches.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry <larry(at)grrok.com> |
This way you know that your are supplying clean power to the unit.
At 03:36 AM 7/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Why would you want to do that? Advantages??
>
>Indiana Larry
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "larry" <larry(at)grrok.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KMD 150
>
>
> >
> > Why not use a 12 vdc battery in your system between the power supply and
> > the KMD 150.
> >
> > At 10:04 PM 7/23/2004, you wrote:
>
> > >
> > >Does anyone know if I can use a fair DC power supply in the airplane to
> > >power my KMD 150 GPS without damaging the GPS in order to spend some time
> > >learning some of it's features? The power supply I have is 12v DC with
>no
> > >other adjustments. I am however willing to purchase another unit if
>necessary.
> > >
> > >Many Thanks
> > >
> > >Mickey Billings RV&
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Robinson <crj(at)lucubration.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Visio 2000 Stencil |
Dave wrote:
>
> Chad, This sounds interesting but I can only find a "pay for subscription"
> link for Visio 2000-2003. Is there a free program anywhere? I've looked at
> www.downloads.com but there's so many to choose from. A few have a free
> try, $300 to buy download but that would be annoying. Any info?
Visio is indeed a commercial product currently sold by Microsoft. It's one of
their better products, actually - they didn't write it, they purchased it from
the original makers (Visio the company) because it was the best flowcharting
product on the market and they wanted in.
There is a 30-day evaluation for the product at:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085798
(click Trial Version).
Visio Standard costs $200. You can get older versions on eBay for less than
half that (I saw some quotes as low as $60) but be sure you're buying a
legitimate version. Standard Edition is almost certainly all you need.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Does anyone know if I can use a fair DC power supply in the airplane to
>power my KMD 150 GPS without damaging the GPS in order to spend some time
>learning some of it's features? The power supply I have is 12v DC with no
>other adjustments. I am however willing to purchase another unit if necessary.
>
>Many Thanks
>
>Mickey Billings RV&
Your description of "12v DC with no other adjustments" is not very
illuminating. This can describe a lot of different products. What
you're looking for is a regulated bench supply that may or may not
be adjustable. It's also desirable that it have very little noise
from the ac mains rectifiers but this happens automatically in the
regulation process.
The keywords are "regulated" "power supply" and you can toss in
"13.8" for a narrower search on suitable devices. Radio shack
sells several models of fixed output supplies adjusted for
13.8 volts to emulate vehicular DC power sources. Your
radio would run fine on either of these two offerings on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48708&item=5710800322&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58286&item=3829308370&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW\
If you wanted a bit more versatility in a bench supply, consider
something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58286&item=3830084207&rd=1
This is adjustable over the range of 0-30 volts and has
adjustable current limiting and digital meters to display
output voltage and load current. We have perhaps a half dozen
power supplies of this genre' on our workbench.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>This way you know that your are supplying clean power to the unit.
Keep in mind that radios properly designed for operation
with vehicular DC power sources get anything but "clean"
power. Alternator have very trashy output. The biggest
risk to equipment when using power supplies of unknown
quantity is over voltage. Some simple supplies might be
"rated" for 13 volts at full load but soar to 19 volts or
more lightly loaded. Getting a regulated supply eliminates
this risk. Beyond that, power supply selection is more
a matter of deciding how much utility you'd like to have
from the supply for tasks other than running a GPS
receiver in the "home learning" mode.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter |
Jerzy,
Well, turns out that Trampas was right when he advised that the EI
capacitor probe puts out a signal that could be read by the BMA EFIS-1. It
has the ability to read both low and high frequencies. I had tried the low
frequency and wasn't able to get it to work and abandoned the idea. Last
weekend I tried the high frequency channel and it worked like a champ. The
side benefit to this is that it saves two of the three voltage channels for
monitoring battery or buss voltage. So, as it turns out, it was as simple
as connecting the white output from the EI probe to the correct d-sub pin
for the high-frequency channel input and then do the calibration.
Appreciate your help and advice none the less.
Thanks,
Mark S.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Mark,
> >>>>
> >>>>My understanding is that the EI probes output a 5V frequency signal
> which is
> >>>>around 2Khz and the frequency varies with the fuel level. I think BMA can
> >>>>accept a frequency input to their device, thus making the interfacing
> simple
> >>>>as hooking it up.
> >>>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>Trampas Stern
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> >>>>Steitle
> >>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: PWM Signal to 0-5v Voltage Converter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Does anyone know where I can get a converter that takes a 5v pwm signal
> >>>>>and converts it to 0-5v output. The purpose is to convert the output
> >>>>>signal from my Electronics Int'l. capacitive fuel probes to a signal
> that
> >>>>>my BMA EFIS can understand. I figure there ought to be a simple circuit
> >>>>>somewhere that will do this, but I haven't been able to find it. I feel
> >>>>>confident that I could assemble such a device, but its beyond me to
> design
> >>>>>such a circuit from scratch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>Mark S.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Visio 2000 Stencil |
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
I used to always recoment xfig (www.xfig.org), bacause that is what I use.
I have used Dia for a couple little drawings, and it works pretty good.
It;ll read DXFs too!
There is a Dia for windows, try http://dia-installer.sourceforge.net/
July 01, 2004 - July 26, 2004
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-di