AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-do

October 02, 2004 - October 14, 2004



      minds want to know . . ."
      
      In short...looks like a great idea, looks like it will work and they are 
      getting a lot of orders for them!
      
      You can read all about them at the website you indicated,  www.emagair.com
      
      Harley Dixon
      Long EZ N28EZ
      Canandaigua, NY
      
      
      Mike Brogley wrote:
      
      >
      >
      >Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list:
      >
      >  http://emagair.com/
      >
      >Any thoughts?
      >
      >--
      >Mike Brogley
      >mikebrogley(at)ieee.org
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Hat switch
Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful - They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. jerb > > >Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks? > It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and >feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50. >Scott in VAncouver >RV-6, 150 hours >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Richard Riley" <richard(at)RILEY.NET> >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > > > > > > > >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put > >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype > >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great, > >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!! > >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did > >>something stupid instead of buying my product and > >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas > >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note > >>that after reading through all the hype that they > >>employ the cheap solution. > > > > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We > > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just > > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood > > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying > > we'd stolen his design. > > > > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty > > good > > indication of who he is. > > > > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better > > than > > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce. > > > > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and > > salvaging > > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick > > itself. Like this one > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill & Marsha" <docyukon(at)ptcnet.net>
Subject: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher
Date: Oct 02, 2004
Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along with a Spa 400 Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics Website does not show this combination. Thanks Bill S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Hat switch
Let's try this again.... Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful - They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html jerb > > > > > >Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks? > > It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and > >feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50. > >Scott in VAncouver > >RV-6, 150 hours > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Richard Riley" <richard(at)RILEY.NET> > >To: > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put > > >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype > > >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great, > > >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!! > > >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did > > >>something stupid instead of buying my product and > > >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas > > >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note > > >>that after reading through all the hype that they > > >>employ the cheap solution. > > > > > > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We > > > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just > > > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood > > > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying > > > we'd stolen his design. > > > > > > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty > > > good > > > indication of who he is. > > > > > > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better > > > than > > > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce. > > > > > > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and > > > salvaging > > > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick > > > itself. Like this one > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
Subject: Re: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher
From: earl_schroeder(at)juno.com
I notice that the Spa 400 (perhaps all Sigtronics intercoms) run in parallel with the mic/com jacks. Some allow aux inputs which I wonder if Bob or someone has explored? I'd be interested in a cell phone input. Thanks, Earl > Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along > with a Spa 400 Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics > Website does not show this combination. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
Subject: Re: Hat switch
From: earl_schroeder(at)juno.com
> Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and > helpful - > http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html As a user of one of the original trim motors made available by Mr M. in a Mustang II and an observer of this growing company, I too would like to recommend checking their products. A fine bunch of folks IMHO. Earl E Schroeder Lancair N233EE Cessna N3595J 5436 Saint Phillips Rd S Evansville, Indiana 47712 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hat switch
Everybody else is responding to this thread, so I guess I will take my turn too. I just bought 2 of the CH Products stick grips for $98 each including mounting bushings. They are a maker of top of the line computer control sticks which are used for games mostly, but also for controlling instruments. Kevin Williamson at CH will send you one to examine at no charge. One thing to note about computer control sticks is that they get about 100 times more cycles on the switches than aircraft control sticks. Killing space aliens is a much more demanding task than talking to the tower. So, I'm expecting it to be very durable. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Subject: Re: Hat switch
----- Original Message ----- From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> Date: Saturday, October 2, 2004 11:15 am Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch > > Let's try this again.... > Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and > helpful - > They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your > application. In > fact is your looking for foam grips they have them. > http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html > jerb > They will also sell just the $50 hat switch. In fact, that is where I found the dimensional diagram for it. Right now, I'm working up an order for Mouser. Their switch is only about $2, but they have a $25 minimum, so I'm trying to throw in a bunch of stuff that I think I'll eventually need. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Subject: Annunciator LED's
I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: very basic magneto info
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info <> 10/2/2004 Hello Tom, I know how you feel it is like doing business with a technology and a company whose philosophies are firmly rooted in about the 1928 era when magneto fired farm tractors were in their heyday. Maybe I can help a little. <> Sounds correct. The P (P for primary coil) lead comes off a capacitor inside the magneto and when that P lead is connected to a source of ground the magneto will not send high voltage out the ignition harness wires to the spark plugs. <<2- There is a fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8 small holes in it. I this some sort of vent?>> Good guess - on the exploded parts diagram that is called Air Vent. <<3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection?>> Not an electrical connection, but Air Vent with Hood. <<4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the magneto that are connected together to best achieve grounding?>> There is a Phillips head screw on the magneto marked GND. You can connect the shield on the P lead shielded wire to that screw with a crimped on ring terminal. At the other end of the P lead you can have a switch that will connect the P lead shield to the P lead core wire when you want to ground the magneto. This would be the OFF position of the magneto switch. <> The memo is a publication from Unison called the F-1100 Master Service Manual. You can get a form to subscribe to this manual on the Unison web site initial cost is $50. Yearly subscriptions are $30. Probably overkill for a non A&P. If you will email me direct your postal mailing address I will copy a few pages from my manual, including an exploded parts diagram, and mail them to you. Should help a bit. OC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
Richard, I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to be cheaper there than anywhere else. check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very bright, and they are real attention getters. Jerzy Richard Riley wrote: > >I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at >the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending >on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they >should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them >for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: > > >Richard, >I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to >be cheaper there than anywhere else. > >check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List > >For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very >bright, and they are real attention getters. Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For gear up warning I'll use a blinker. I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/ 20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always reduce the current using bigger resistors. Jerzy Richard Riley wrote: > >At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: > > >> >> >>Richard, >>I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to >>be cheaper there than anywhere else. >> >>check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List >> >>For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very >>bright, and they are real attention getters. >> >> > > >Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status >indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For >gear up warning I'll use a blinker. > >I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for >the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
That will get you close. But different types of diodes have different forward voltage drops. The blue ones, for example, are quite large, whereas the old silicon red diodes were just one normal Silicon diode drop - about 0.7v. I put them in a circuit with a 12v battery and a 1K resistor and actually measure the voltage drop across the diode with a volt meter. Then the equation becomes (13.8 - Vf)/I = R where Vf is the forward drop that you measured across the diode. Plug in the current in amps to get resistance in ohms or vice versa. As Jerzey says, most are in the 2 - 3 volt range. The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently. Jerzy Krasinski wrote: > > You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum > resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/ > 20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there > is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always > reduce the current using bigger resistors. > > Jerzy -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2004
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
In a message dated 10/02/2004 2:24:22 PM Central Standard Time, richard(at)RILEY.NET writes: I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. >>> Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work great, plenty bright, cheap etc. From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips -6A N51PW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
At 07:30 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: >The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma >range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although >ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things >are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men >have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently. Fortunately I'm not, but my dad was. He couldn't see red led indicators *at all* - the early calculators were useless to him. He also couldn't tell the difference between the red light and the green light on a stoplight. Years ago some genius in the city planning commission decided it would be artsy to start turning stoplights sideways. Of course they couldn't be bothered to turn them all the same direction. Dad raised hell about it, they backed off. It was the reason he could never get a pilot's license. He was a heck of a stick, but never got the paper. I guess I'll just need to buy a bunch of sample LEDs of various colors and intensities, make up a test rig and start playing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2004
From: Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
At 08:07 PM 10/2/04, you wrote: >Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf >Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and >you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work >great, plenty bright, cheap etc. SRV? Stevie Ray Vaughan? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
On 10/02 1:19, Richard Riley wrote: > I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at > the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending > on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they > should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them > for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted. Instead of having to calculate the resistance for each of the colored LEDs, why don't you create a box with interchangeable front colored face plates, something that you could affix a label of your choice. And just use white LEDs behind it all. I spent a considerable amount of time trying to tackle this very thing. In the end, I want to fly sooner so I'll fabricate this after I'm flying... If you want, contact me offline. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glaesers" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com>
Subject: Re: Annunciator LED's
Date: Oct 03, 2004
I bought some LEDs to play with from these folks - red, green, yellow, blue, and white. The brightest are definitely bright enough for daylight. http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm You can get a solid state dimmer from Eric Jones (http://periheliondesign.com). Dennis Glaeser ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Mike Brogley <mikebrogley(at)ieee.org>
Subject: Re: e-mag
Thanks Harley. My apologies to the list for the duplication of an earlier question - I searched subject lines back through summer 2003, but should have searched the body text of the list. Sorry. -- Mike Harley wrote: > >Morning, Mike... > > >> http://emagair.com/ >Any thoughts?<< > >Oh yes! I've ordered both types for my Lycoming O-235...next batch is >due to be completed in October. > >Have heard nothing negative about them yet, and seem like the idea of >the century! About the only problem I can foresee is that some of >the pusher planes may not have enough room to mount the self powered "P" >version (it's "longer" than the basic e-mag) between the engine >accessory case and the firewall...but, in that case, Emagair will supply >the parts to remote the top half of the P-Mag. The smaller, E-Mag unit >will fit...I have a Long EZ, and preliminary measurements show that both >types (I ordered one of each) will fit my installation without modification. > >One of the guys on the Canard Aviators list (Ken Miller) is waiting for >a set of them...he is going to have Mattituck install them and Dyno test >them in his plane ... and our own Bob Nuckolls has commented on the idea >after seeing the web site. > >To quote a paragraph is Bob's email; > >"Emag is one of the most exciting new ideas to come along in OBAM >aircraft ignition systems in 10 years. If I owned an OBAM >aircraft, I'd put ONE of these critters on order right now. >I've e-mailed a few folks directly asking them to consider >this product for their currently-flying aircraft. Inquiring >minds want to know . . ." > >In short...looks like a great idea, looks like it will work and they are >getting a lot of orders for them! > >You can read all about them at the website you indicated, www.emagair.com > >Harley Dixon >Long EZ N28EZ >Canandaigua, NY > > >Mike Brogley wrote: > > > >> >> >>Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list: >> >> http://emagair.com/ >> >>Any thoughts? >> >>-- >>Mike Brogley >>mikebrogley(at)ieee.org >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
Subject: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments. Thanks, John Schroeder Lancair Super ES 82% -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Hat switch
Bob Kuc wrote: > > If you look at the CH products site, you will see that they sell the 4 way > switch of $2.00 and it is not surface mount. They do not list the hat for > sale. Maybe the mouse hat will fit it. > > http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.html > > Better thatn trying to get the surface mount to work. > For me, the issue is now solved. I made the mistake of walking into Wal-Mart yesterday with a brand new $20 bill in my pocket. I should have known better, but I guess I was just looking for trouble. There, sitting all by itself on the shelf, was the last Cyborg Graphite. http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg I walked out the store, exactly $21 lighter, and took my new prize straight home and began the deconstructive surgery. The hat switch lifted off in a nice, self-contained package. http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg Internal inspection revealed an ingenious arrangement of cheap switches. A single screw captures a post that engages one or two of four tactile momentary switches that are mounted sideways. It removes the need to provide arms out of the center post to actuate the switches and also keeps the assembly compact. I believe the same configuration could be easily reproduce with some scrap fiberglass and a ounze of epoxy, and then there would be convenient post to solder to. http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchInternals.jpg I would like to thank everyone for their input, -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/ "This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: open barrel crimper for small wires
clamav-milter version 0.80c on juliet.albedo.net Would anyone know of a small open barrel crimper (butt cheek crimper). I have done a fair bit of looking and the best I have come up with is one for 16awg (1.5 metric) wire with a width inside the jaws of 0.11 inches. From the photos I suspect that is about the same as the one from B & C. I need a unit for 18 to 22 awg wire. After crimping, these finished connections are 0.065 inches wide, 0.80 inches wide, and 0.090 inches wide. I can get by with something that does 0.090 wide finished crimps but anything larger and the pins won't fit into the connectors. This is for the EFI connections on my auto engine conversion so I'll break out the soldering iron and start splicing rather than spend huge dollars. But it would certainly be worth a moderate expenditure for something that would do the job. thank you Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher
Date: Oct 03, 2004
On Oct 2, 2004, at 11:48 AM, earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote: > > I notice that the Spa 400 (perhaps all Sigtronics intercoms) run in > parallel with the mic/com jacks. Some allow aux inputs which I wonder > if > Bob or someone has explored? I'd be interested in a cell phone input. > Thanks, Earl I have had nothing but problems with the Sigtronics intercoms. Paralleling the output of the intercom with the output of the audio panel works only if the output impedance of the audio panel is relatively high, not true for modern audio panels. I finally gave up and switched to using PS Engineering intercoms. Even their cheapest intercom far outperforms the Sigtronics. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
John Schroeder wrote: > >My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does >not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is >easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals >on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have >the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments. > >Thanks, > >John Schroeder >Lancair Super ES 82% > > > Use the format below to find the manuals that your looking for: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf Some one post a message listing all the links a while back but I don't remember which list. -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonEavesRV6" <DonEavesRV6(at)midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
Date: Oct 03, 2004
John: Garmin removed the installation manuals from the download site for liability reasons - I Got everything with my GPS except the installation manuals - Call Garmin they may email you one. If not, you will have to go to a dealer to get one - Also Bob Nuckolls has some "Radio Pinout Guides" @ http://www.aeroelectric.com/ - This may be all you need - Don Eaves RV6 Flying ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals > > > My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does > not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is > easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals > on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have > the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments. > > Thanks, > > John Schroeder > Lancair Super ES 82% > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
John, You are gonna love this. I have cut and paste from a post I made off the rv-list message #124797. Every Garmin manual ever made can be had by folling the below message. Enjoy. Mike Stewart ======= Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the appolo site down. I got a file from him like sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit by a bus. http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append the filename to the url above and you will have it. Enjoy, Mike Stewart MX20_InstallationManual.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf 143_InstallationManual.pdf (GPS 400 GNC 420 GNS 430 Series) CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf 156_InstallationManual.pdf GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf 156_InstallationManual.pdf GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf MX20_STCManual.pdf MX20_UserGuide.pdf MX20_MX20AirplaneFlightManualSupplement.pdf GTX320ATransponder_PilotsGuide.pdf 168_InstallationManual.pdf GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf SL70Transponder_TSOLetter.pdf GMA340AudioPanel_PilotsGuide.pdf SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf GPS92_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf 461_OwnersManual.pdf 461_OwnersManual.pdf NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_JTSOLetter.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_TSOLetter.pdf SL40Comm_UserGuide.pdf SL40Comm_STCKit.pdf 2001_2101C129Series_NMC_2001_2101_OperationManual.pdf 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101ApproachChecklist.pdf 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 360GPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 360GPS_STCKit.pdf 360GPS_UserGuide.pdf 360GPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf 360MAP_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 360MAP_UserGuide.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_604PilotGuide.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReference.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_612-614P-614RQuickReference.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_612BOperationHandbook.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_618QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_618UserGuide.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_602OperationManual.pdf 600SeriesLORAN_602QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800PilotsOperatingManual.pdf 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820PilotsOperatingManual.pdf 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 900SeriesGPS_920UserGuide.pdf 900SeriesGPS_920QuickStart.pdf 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusUserGuide.pdf 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusQuickReference.pdf 900SeriesGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf GNC250GPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf 156_InstallationManual.pdf GNC250GPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS100AVD_OwnersManual.pdf GPS100AVD_InstallationManual.pdf GPS150_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS150_InstallationManual.pdf GPS155TSO_PilotsGuide.pdf 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf GPS155TSO_InstallationManual.pdf GPS155TSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf GPS55AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS89_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS90_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS95AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS95STD_PilotsGuide.pdf GPS95XL_PilotsGuide.pdf GPSCOM190_PilotsGuide.pdf GTX320Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf 168_InstallationManual.pdf GX50IFRGPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GX50IFRGPS_GX50TrainingPackage.pdf GX50IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf GX55IFRGPS_QuickReference.pdf GX55IFRGPS_TrainingPackage.pdf GX55IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf GX60IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf GX60IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf GX60IFRGPS_COMM_OverflyCancellationLetter.pdf GX65IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf GX65IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReference.pdf SL10AudioPanel_UserGuide.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50QuickReference.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_SL60QuickReference.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_TSOC129InstallationFAAApprovalProcedures.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_Memo:Cancelsover-flyrequirement.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_SystemConfigurationIndex.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50_60MasterDrawingList.pdf SL50_60IFRGPS_SupplementaryAirplaneFlightManual.pdf 82_OwnersManual.pdf 82_OwnersManual.pdf GPS152_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP162_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP172C_OwnersManual.pdf 73_OwnersManual.pdf 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf 41_OwnersManual.pdf 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf 41_OwnersManual.pdf 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf GPSMAP3006C_3010C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP3006C_3010C_InstallationGuide.pdf GPSMAP168Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP178CSounder_OwnersManual.pdf 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf 437_OwnersManual.pdf 437_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP175_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf GBR21_OwnersManual.pdf GDL30MarineWeatherSatelliteReceiver_OwnersManual.pdf GMS10NetworkPortExpander_OwnersManual.pdf 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf GSD20_InstallationGuide.pdf 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf VHF720_OwnersManual.pdf VHF725_OwnersManual.pdf VHF725_OwnersManual_EuroVersion_.pdf DGPS53_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf GBR23_OwnersManual.PDF GPS100STD_OwnersManual.pdf GPS120_OwnersManual.pdf GPS120XL_OwnersManual.pdf GPS125Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf GPS45_OwnersManual.pdf GPS45XL_OwnersManual.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf GPS65_OwnersManual.PDF GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf GPSCOM170_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP130_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP135Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf 73_OwnersManual.pdf 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPSMAP180_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP185Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP200_OwnersManual.pdf 130_OwnersManual.pdf 80_OwnersManual.pdf 130_OwnersManual.pdf 80_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP230_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP235Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf 130_OwnersManual.pdf eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexCamo_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexSummit_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf Forerunner101_OwnersManual.pdf Forerunner201_OwnersManual.pdf Foretrex101_OwnersManual.pdf Foretrex201_OwnersManual.pdf Geko101_OwnersManual.pdf Geko201_OwnersManual.pdf Geko301_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexLegend_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexLegendC_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexVista_OwnersManual.pdf eTrexVista_Jumpmaster.pdf eTrexVistaC_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf 437_OwnersManual.pdf 437_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf GPS38_OwnersManual.pdf GPS40_OwnersManual.pdf 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf NavTalkGSM_OwnersManual.pdf NavTalkGSM_ATCommandInterfaceSupplement.pdf Quest_OwnersManual.pdf StreetPilot2610GPS_OwnersManual.pdf 439_OwnersManual.pdf StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf 39_OwnersManual.pdf StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf eMap_OwnersManual.pdf GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Schroeder Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments. Thanks, John Schroeder Lancair Super ES 82% -- == == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
Here's a direct link page I created out of the previous post....I just used it to auto-download everything on a linux box so I'll have an archive of them saved. Tim http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/143_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/156_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/156_InstallationManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 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http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/461_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/461_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf 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http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/39_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eMap_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/68_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/68_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf http://www.garmin.com/manuals/usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > > John, > You are gonna love this. > I have cut and paste from a post I made off the rv-list message #124797. > Every Garmin manual ever made can be had by folling the below message. > Enjoy. > Mike Stewart > ======= > Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found > by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the > scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some > file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill > try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But > for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its > in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference > Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds > of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have > wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals > which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to > get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in > case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the > appolo site down. I got a file from him like > sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that > filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit > by a bus. > > http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are > looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append > the filename to the url above and you will have it. > Enjoy, > Mike Stewart > > MX20_InstallationManual.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf > SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf > GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf > SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf > GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf > GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf > 143_InstallationManual.pdf (GPS 400 GNC 420 GNS 430 Series) > > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf > CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > 156_InstallationManual.pdf > GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf > 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf > 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf > GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf > 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF > GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf > GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > 156_InstallationManual.pdf > GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf > 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf > 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf > 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > MX20_STCManual.pdf > MX20_UserGuide.pdf > MX20_MX20AirplaneFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GTX320ATransponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > 168_InstallationManual.pdf > GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf > SL70Transponder_TSOLetter.pdf > GMA340AudioPanel_PilotsGuide.pdf > SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf > SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf > GPS92_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf > 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf > 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf > 461_OwnersManual.pdf > 461_OwnersManual.pdf > NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf > NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf > NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_JTSOLetter.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_TSOLetter.pdf > SL40Comm_UserGuide.pdf > SL40Comm_STCKit.pdf > 2001_2101C129Series_NMC_2001_2101_OperationManual.pdf > 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101ApproachChecklist.pdf > 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 360GPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 360GPS_STCKit.pdf > 360GPS_UserGuide.pdf > 360GPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf > 360MAP_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 360MAP_UserGuide.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_604PilotGuide.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReference.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_612-614P-614RQuickReference.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_612BOperationHandbook.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_618QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_618UserGuide.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_602OperationManual.pdf > 600SeriesLORAN_602QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800PilotsOperatingManual.pdf > 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820PilotsOperatingManual.pdf > 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > 900SeriesGPS_920UserGuide.pdf > 900SeriesGPS_920QuickStart.pdf > 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusUserGuide.pdf > 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusQuickReference.pdf > 900SeriesGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf > GNC250GPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf > 156_InstallationManual.pdf > GNC250GPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf > GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf > GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS100AVD_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS100AVD_InstallationManual.pdf > GPS150_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS150_InstallationManual.pdf > GPS155TSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf > GPS155TSO_InstallationManual.pdf > GPS155TSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf > GPS55AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS89_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS90_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS95AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS95STD_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPS95XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > GPSCOM190_PilotsGuide.pdf > GTX320Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > 168_InstallationManual.pdf > GX50IFRGPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GX50IFRGPS_GX50TrainingPackage.pdf > GX50IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf > GX55IFRGPS_QuickReference.pdf > GX55IFRGPS_TrainingPackage.pdf > GX55IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf > GX60IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf > GX60IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > GX60IFRGPS_COMM_OverflyCancellationLetter.pdf > GX65IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf > GX65IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReference.pdf > SL10AudioPanel_UserGuide.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50QuickReference.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_SL60QuickReference.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_TSOC129InstallationFAAApprovalProcedures.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_Memo:Cancelsover-flyrequirement.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_SystemConfigurationIndex.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50_60MasterDrawingList.pdf > SL50_60IFRGPS_SupplementaryAirplaneFlightManual.pdf > 82_OwnersManual.pdf > 82_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS152_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP162_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP172C_OwnersManual.pdf > 73_OwnersManual.pdf > 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf > 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf > 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf > 41_OwnersManual.pdf > 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf > 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf > 41_OwnersManual.pdf > 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf > 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf > 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf > 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf > GPSMAP3006C_3010C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP3006C_3010C_InstallationGuide.pdf > GPSMAP168Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP178CSounder_OwnersManual.pdf > 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf > 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf > FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf > 437_OwnersManual.pdf > 437_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf > GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP175_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GBR21_OwnersManual.pdf > GDL30MarineWeatherSatelliteReceiver_OwnersManual.pdf > GMS10NetworkPortExpander_OwnersManual.pdf > 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf > 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GSD20_InstallationGuide.pdf > 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf > Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf > VHF720_OwnersManual.pdf > VHF725_OwnersManual.pdf > VHF725_OwnersManual_EuroVersion_.pdf > DGPS53_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > GBR23_OwnersManual.PDF > GPS100STD_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS120_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS120XL_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS125Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS45_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS45XL_OwnersManual.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS65_OwnersManual.PDF > GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf > GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf > GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf > GPSCOM170_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP130_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP135Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf > 73_OwnersManual.pdf > 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSMAP180_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP185Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP200_OwnersManual.pdf > 130_OwnersManual.pdf > 80_OwnersManual.pdf > 130_OwnersManual.pdf > 80_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP230_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP235Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf > 130_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexCamo_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexSummit_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf > Forerunner101_OwnersManual.pdf > Forerunner201_OwnersManual.pdf > Foretrex101_OwnersManual.pdf > Foretrex201_OwnersManual.pdf > Geko101_OwnersManual.pdf > Geko201_OwnersManual.pdf > Geko301_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf > GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexLegend_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexLegendC_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexVista_OwnersManual.pdf > eTrexVista_Jumpmaster.pdf > eTrexVistaC_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf > FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf > FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf > 437_OwnersManual.pdf > 437_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf > FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf > FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS38_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS40_OwnersManual.pdf > 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf > GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf > GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf > GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf > GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf > GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf > NavTalkGSM_OwnersManual.pdf > NavTalkGSM_ATCommandInterfaceSupplement.pdf > Quest_OwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilot2610GPS_OwnersManual.pdf > 439_OwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf > 39_OwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf > StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf > StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf > StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf > 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf > cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf > cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf > eMap_OwnersManual.pdf > GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf > GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf > GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf > iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf > iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf > iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf > iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf > Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf > Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf > Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf > NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf > 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf > MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf > MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf > 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf > 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf > 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf > 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf > 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf > 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf > GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf > 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf > GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf > GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf > IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf > JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf > LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf > PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf > usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Schroeder > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals > > > > My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin > does > not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is > easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals > > on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have > > the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments. > > Thanks, > > John Schroeder > Lancair Super ES 82% > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2004
Subject: Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Tim and all you other good folks who responded - Many thanks for the huge response and the help. It works like a charm. Hopefully, Garmin won't plug this loophole as well. Ahhhhh, the whiff of monopoly!! :-)) Cheers, John -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: RV8ter(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: open barrel crimper for small wiresclamav-milter
version 0.80con juliet.albedo.net I'm not sure what your issue is here but I bought two of them this weekend. One from Pep Boys for an outrageous $24 then found a better quality looking one from Radio Shack for about $7. I made some connections, gave it the ol' SWAG pull test and they all didn't budge at all so no soldering for me. I bought the crimpable pins and housing also from Radio Shack. They sell various wire sized, reasonably priced complete set blister packs of .090. Lucky In a message dated 10/3/2004 9:20:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ken writes: > >Would anyone know of a small open barrel crimper (butt cheek crimper). I >have done a fair bit of looking and the best I have come up with is one >for 16awg (1.5 metric) wire with a width inside the jaws of 0.11 inches. >From the photos I suspect that is about the same as the one from B & C. > > I need a unit for 18 to 22 awg wire. After crimping, these finished >connections are 0.065 inches wide, 0.80 inches wide, and 0.090 inches >wide. I can get by with something that does 0.090 wide finished crimps >but anything larger and the pins won't fit into the connectors. This is >for the EFI connections on my auto engine conversion so I'll break out >the soldering iron and start splicing rather than spend huge dollars. >But it would certainly be worth a moderate expenditure for something >that would do the job. > >thank you >Ken > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Subject: Re: Hat switch
Christley > > I walked out the store, exactly $21 lighter, and took my new prize > straight home and began the deconstructive surgery. The hat switch > lifted off in a nice, self-contained package. > > http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg > Oops. I put the wrong URL on that one. Try: http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/HatSwitch.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net>
"RV7list" ,
Subject: wiring fuel level sender
Date: Oct 04, 2004
i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level sender in the second bay. i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with bushing. wiring with AWG22. could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left wing and fuselage). or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any connector or splicing ? thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english. Olivier LC France ICQ#: 82067330 sanglier(at)laposte.net http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: The power of questions and networking.
> > >Well hopefully not John, but like some of the other posts, I have the >entire directory archived for our future benefit. > >Ahhhh the power of technology! Ahhhh . . . the power of networking! >Oh and BTW, I received my HT-322 rotary coax stripper and I am very >pissed off. I pulled it out of the package, spun it around a piece of >coax, and in about 3 seconds I had a perfectly stripped 3 way coax. How >in the heck did I ever get by with out this little device. I stripped 4 >times, made a couple tweaks to the blades, and now I am ready to tackle >all those connectors I got coming. Thanks Bob for this incredible find >and to the list that nudged me to buy one. These things have been around for over 30 years that I can think of . . . before that, folks "in the business" made their own with the help of some guy down in the machine shop that wasn't adverse to working "a government job". A couple of hunks of phenolic, some Xacto knife blades and perhaps several hours at the hands of a craftsman would produce what we called "shop aids". We could justify two hours of that machinist's time to save $time$ in assembly and reduce $time$ lost in scrap materials/labor. A neat fallout is increased worker satisfaction and pride of accomplishment for being able to do a better job in less time and less dependence on craftsmanship for a good outcome. I can still see grandad's grin as he watched his carpenters cut stacks of studs in minutes with the newly acquired Skill-Saw and a "shop aid" fabricated from some lumber, a hinge, hunk of angle iron and a screen door spring. Thanks to grandpa for planting the seeds of the Skunk Works mentality into the head of a 6 year old grandson. He never knew what a gift he gave. I have several such tools . . .some are pretty old (and the blades are still fine after perhaps 50-100 installations). I don't carry one in my minimalist toolbox because it takes up more room than my multitasking Xacto knife with #11 blade in it. If I need to install a connector in the wild, I can still do it the "hard way" but if I have a dozen connectors to install on the bench, the strippers come out. I didn't think to explore this subject and share the outcome until someone asked. Others could have (and perhaps did) do some exploring on their own and had some "discoveries" that we've not heard about yet. But it's a sure bet that we all received benefit from somebody's willingness to throw the question out. I found (stumbled onto) a good tool, others are coming forward with equal-to-or- better deals yet. This ladies and gentlemen is what makes the List work. The most important component of any problem solving activity is not the answers but THE QUESTIONS. Was it ever asked? Were all the questions asked? I've observed dozens of problem solving activities wherein groups of people had some discussions, made some decisions, changed some drawings, expended tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, and declared victory. Some time later, the problem was found to be only partly resolved and/or new problems came up as unintended consequences. Insufficient questions were asked (and subsequently answered) in their deliberations. So, after all these years of running down the road severely deprived of good coax stripping tools, someone asked the question. One guy went off in search of an answer. Now others are refining, expanding and enhancing that answer with their own. The Skunk Works approach to problem solving. I've been watching the thread on leds for annunciators. When the thread first started there were things I thought of that could have been contributed to the conversation but other folks tossed those ideas in later down the thread. I'm not going to get into that thread but will watch it. I anticipate and increasing degree of satisfaction and pride of association with folks willing and able to conduct this exercise; combing the wild for simple-ideas that have good prospects for application in new products. For me at least, a teacher's ultimate career goal is to face his students and say, "gee folks, I have given you all I have. YOU are now the teachers and have things to share with me." Of course we know that in the normal course of human communication. This happens in microcosm all the time. We are all (or should be) students and teachers at all times. Now, I gave away my newest stripping tool yesterday as a door prize at the seminar in St. Louis. Gotta go ask Google where to get a better one. Thank you Mike! > A google search on the part >number will get you prices better than e-bay. Next trick is to find a >blade kit cause that braid is gonna kill those blades in short order. I think you'll find that unless you're going into the coax assembly business, the blades are going to last for a lifetime of service in your own Skunk Works. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: wiring fuel level sender
Date: Oct 03, 2004
Olivier, I have a connector between my fuselage and wings for all my electrical wiring. landing/taxi Lights, heated Pitot tube, nav lights, Nav antenna, etc. In case I ever had to take a wing off. But, finding out how much trouble it was to put all those bolts and nuts to hold the wing spar to the bulkhead, I doubt I will ever have a wing off (voluntarily).{:>) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net> ; Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender > > i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level > sender in the second bay. > i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with > bushing. > wiring with AWG22. > could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left > wing and fuselage). > or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any > connector or splicing ? > > thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english. > > Olivier LC > France > ICQ#: 82067330 > sanglier(at)laposte.net > http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Lead acid batteries: Vairiations on a theme.
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Just so I understand this. I recently had a new Concorde RG35A battery delivered. TNT smashed the plastic case in transit so now I have another one. It works well. My question is about the first one. Certainly nothing leaked out despite being able to see through the cracks to the inside, and it has been doing good duty starting my lawn mower. (The mower battery is a bit tired.) Will moisture evaporate out? Is this acidic? It is quite useful having a 12V source around, but am I better to get it out of my workshop? Thanks, Steve. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Lead acid batteries: Vairiations on a theme.
Date: Oct 04, 2004
On Oct 4, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Steve Sampson wrote: > My question is about the first one. Certainly nothing leaked out > despite > being able to see through the cracks to the inside, and it has been > doing > good duty starting my lawn mower. (The mower battery is a bit tired.) > Will > moisture evaporate out? Is this acidic? > > It is quite useful having a 12V source around, but am I better to get > it out > of my workshop? It works. Seal up the cracks with something, put it in a vented battery box, and use it for light duty. Not being completely sealed it will eventually dry out but in the mean time it is usable. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: 24 Volt batteries
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Every so often the discussion comes up about 12 volt vs. 24 volt systems. What battery do those who choose 24 volts use? What does it weigh, and how does it compare the new lightweight batteries like the PC680? Do they hook 2 of them together for 24 volts? Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net>
Subject: wiring fuel level sender
Date: Oct 04, 2004
thank's for answer. i use AWG 20, but i think that AWG22 is enough for fuel senders ? i don't find anything about this problem. i own the aeroelectic b nuckolls book and CD and don't find anything about wire size for fuel gauge (never in van's manual). Olivier -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part de Ed Anderson Envoy : dimanche 3 octobre 2004 19:05 : aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender Olivier, I have a connector between my fuselage and wings for all my electrical wiring. landing/taxi Lights, heated Pitot tube, nav lights, Nav antenna, etc. In case I ever had to take a wing off. But, finding out how much trouble it was to put all those bolts and nuts to hold the wing spar to the bulkhead, I doubt I will ever have a wing off (voluntarily).{:>) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net> ; Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender > > i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level > sender in the second bay. > i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with > bushing. > wiring with AWG22. > could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left > wing and fuselage). > or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any > connector or splicing ? > > thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english. > > Olivier LC > France > ICQ#: 82067330 > sanglier(at)laposte.net > http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CFrank(at)edony.com
Subject: RE: Unstable 20A generator system
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Update: This past Saturday, I was going to try swapping out the voltage regulator to rule the old one out. I disconnected the leads, started working on the ground wire. I pulled slightly on the wire, and you know what? The wire was improperly swaged to the eyelet that grounds it to the airframe... actually, it was not even swaged, since the wires were not crushed. The bare wires were just making touching contact with the inside of the eyelet, creating an intermittent connection. I re-attached the battery, armature, and field wires, and started her up. Problem solved! No more ammeter needle bounce! Lesson learned: Continuity testing is not enough. A "tug test" would have revealed the problem immediately. Live and learn, I guess. Thanks to all for all the excellent advice. -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:b.nuckolls(at)cox.net] Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Unstable 20A generator system > >Bob, > >Thank you very much for your response. > >Can I substitute a 35 amp regulator for a 20 amp regulator? I do have a >spare 14V regulator on hand, but it is rated for 35 amps, not matching my 20 >amp generator output. I suppose that this regulator will do the job, and >will just regulate for maximum generator output, but I have been reluctant >to try this out of fear of damaging something. > >Either way, whether going with an alternator system or replacing the voltage >regulator, I will still need field approval. We'll see if Santa Claus has >some spare change left over after Xmas for the B&C alternator you recommend. > >I have joined the list, and already am finding it worthwhile. Substitute the 35A regulator for a quick test to see if the system settles down. The 35A current limit is too large to run . . . if your 20A generator is good, the too-large current limit setting in the regulator will not protect the generator. However, the test would be useful to see if a different regulator makes the system behave better. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: 24 Volt batteries
Date: Oct 04, 2004
On Oct 4, 2004, at 1:58 PM, Terry Watson wrote: > > > Every so often the discussion comes up about 12 volt vs. 24 volt > systems. > What battery do those who choose 24 volts use? What does it weigh, > and how > does it compare the new lightweight batteries like the PC680? Do they > hook > 2 of them together for 24 volts? Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery equalizer to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the pair without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to me. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Subject: wiring fuel level sender
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Hello Olivier, Mr Nuckolls strives to give the reader the analytical tools to pick the correct wire based on a component's electrical demands. He sometimes provides illustrative examples of the analysis used to size wire. These examples include calculations using real world numbers. Trying to provide a comprehensive list of all possible electrical devices (and their associated wiring) that could be installed in an airplane wouldn't be practical. Most sensors are designed to use a minimum amount of power and cause the least disruption of the measured system. As such, their power demands are typically low. Because of this, in most cases, the bottom limit on wire size for connections to sensors is a mechanical one. Really small wires are not as robust as slightly thicker ones, and are more difficult to make connections using cheap tools. Reference recent discussion about certain servo motor wire selection. For gas guages, AWG22 is plenty, but if you had AWG20 on hand, that works too. Regards, Matt- VE N34RD, C150 N714BK > > > thank's for answer. > i use AWG 20, but i think that AWG22 is enough for fuel senders ? i > don't find anything about this problem. > i own the aeroelectic b nuckolls book and CD and don't find anything > about wire size for fuel gauge (never in van's manual). > > Olivier > snip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: 24 Volt batteries
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Thanks for the answer, Brian. I wonder if there is a way of deriving most of the benefits of either a 12 or 24 volt system from such a combination. This is just curiosity to me at this point. I have already added a second battery to power my Blue Mountain EFIS one while the first one cranks the starter. I think I have everything worked out so almost any part of the system can run off one or both batteries, but not off either battery individually. For example, the EFIS/one can run off battery #2 or 1 & 2, but not #1 alone; and the starter can be cranked by #1 or #1 and #2, but not #2 alone. Terry RV-8A #80729 wiring & panel Seattle Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery equalizer to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the pair without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to me. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Subject: Re: 24 Volt batteries
From: earl_schroeder(at)juno.com
OK, maybe I should already know but please describe "batteries in series with a battery equalizer" that Brian mentioned. Thanks, Earl > > > > Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery > equalizer > to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the > pair > without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to > me. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Coax Strippers
> > >You folks can throw rocks at me for not speaking up sooner. I haven't used >a knife on coax in 15 years - I thought those nifty little strippers were >common. Of course, I didn't know that y'all didn't know. How could you know . . . until someone asks the question? Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lamar Overvoltage Relay
> > >Help! > >I've got a Lamar B-00289-2 overvoltage relay I'd like to try and use in my >aircraft. It has two connections on it: Bat and Load. Looking at Bob's >schematics, the crowbar hooks up to one side of the 5 amp field breaker and >to ground. In other words, this Lamar doodad may be a different approach >altogether. Anybody know how and where it gets connected? The Lamar web site >is all but useless for information. Yes, it's a true RELAY . . . related to the crowbar ov module only in intended function. It goes in series with the power from your alt field circuit breaker (or fuse in this case . . . the ov relay doesn't force the fuse open). LOAD goes toward the regulator. BAT goes to the breaker or fuse through the alternator control side of the DC power master switch. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse block connections
> > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse block connections > > > > > >The Fast-on PIDG terminals are 10X-100X higher force. In fact they > > >require mechanical assisted grip to separate. > > > > Force is not the same as pressure. It's pressure that sets electrical > > integrity of the connection. There are millions of vehicles using > > similar if not identical connections. > >I agree, but in this case extraction force directly relates to pressure as >the contact area and type are very similar. > >And yes I did try pulling the fuse out of my wife's import auto. The force >and contact marks on the fuse was much higher. Also the contacts were solid >and not loose as in the Buss products (I have several models all with the >same very low forces and loose contacts.) Thus based on a tiny sample the >aftermarket BUSS fuse holders are NOT nearly as good as the production auto >fuse holders. > >I needed the fuse extractor on the auto vs. simple fingers on the BUSS >product. The marks on the auto fuse indicate much higher contact force >similar to the highly recommended fast-on lugs. > >If we were talking about fast-on terminals, I suspect you would judge the >(fuse holder) contact force unacceptable. Fast-ons have a 10x margin of holding force. Most of the fuse holders are light . . . but the guy at Bussmann assured me that adequate pressures were there. Pressure is related to force but we need a scale factor too. Consider whacking off a whisker with a blade . . . sharp edge against a cylinder at right angles. Initial area of contact, zero. Initial force, very light. Pressure . . . tons per square inch and the whisker fails . . . hopefully at the right height the first time so you don't have to whack it again. The risk is in loosing the sharp edges he alludes to in the trifurcated clip that grabs the fuse. Insertion/removal wear has to be significant . . . corrosion dulling of the edge is also a concern. >I will not consider nor recommend fuse holders of the types I have from >BUSS. > >A system is only as good as its weakest link and I feel the BUSS fuse >holders commonly available, not ready for aircraft use. The fuse holder on >the import was fine in my judgment, just not as handy in size. > >Making a fuse holder from female fast-on's and pcb material would provide >the required gas tight contact. Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel. I'll populate the fixture with sockets and then work them onto the board. Just need to wait until my budget for tooling is a bit more flush. I'm not going to try to cut that one out on the ol' Bridgeport! Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
Subject: Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
I downloaded the CNX80 rev F installation manual. Compared to Rev C that was published by UPS, the quality of Rev F is appalling! Many of the drawings and diagrams are unreadable. Looks like someone zeroxed it several times using an old 300 dpi copier and then converted it to a .pdf file. I cannot imagine asking their "licensed installers" to rely on this document to install it according to the FAR's. Looks like they have put these on line for us to make us feel good. Best, John > > Well hopefully not John, but like some of the other posts, I have the > entire directory archived for our future benefit. > > Ahhhh the power of technology! > > Many thanks for the huge response and the help. It works like a charm. > Hopefully, Garmin won't plug this loophole as well. Ahhhhh, the whiff of > monopoly!! :-)) > > Cheers, > > John > > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glaesers" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com>
Subject: Cheap terminal crimper
Date: Oct 04, 2004
I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497 "Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website. I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found the second link but the same description. Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good crimps on PIDG terminals?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281 &rd=1 also http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251 Thanks, Dennis Glaeser ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap terminal crimper
clamav-milter version 0.80c on juliet.albedo.net Dennis It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it. Ken glaesers wrote: > >I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497 >"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website. >I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found >the second link but the same description. > >Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good >crimps on PIDG terminals?? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281 >&rd=1 >also >http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod >uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251 > >Thanks, > Dennis Glaeser > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap terminal crimper
> >Dennis >It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG >terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I >often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a >separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and >insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it. >Ken > >glaesers wrote: > > > > > >I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497 > >"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website. > >I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found > >the second link but the same description. > > > >Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good > >crimps on PIDG terminals?? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281 > >&rd=1 > >also > >http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod > >uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251 > > > >Thanks, > > Dennis Glaeser Yes, that is the same tool. I believe there are only a few folks making this tool. I've seen it in the wild with a variety of colored handles but with identical mold and machine marks. I've seen it priced anywhere from $17 or so up to $125 but they're all made in Taiwan, if not by the same company then twin brother companies. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: D-sub connectors current rating
Date: Oct 05, 2004
All, Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per pin I guess. Many thanks Kingsley Hurst Europa 281 in Oz. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: 24 Volt batteries
Date: Oct 05, 2004
On Oct 4, 2004, at 5:37 PM, earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote: > > OK, maybe I should already know but please describe "batteries in > series > with a battery equalizer" that Brian mentioned. Thanks, Earl I find that many people who go for a 24V/28V electrical system also want 12V/14V to run other loads. I have also seen people make the mistake of just stealing the 12V from the center tap between the two batteries. This is bad because it causes the upper battery to overcharge and the lower battery to be perpetually undercharged. An equalizer is a special 24V-to-12V converter that sits across both batteries connecting to ground, the center tap between the batteries and to the 24V point (positive terminal of the upper battery). Like this: ,------+---------> 24V | | | B2 | | E------+---------> 12V | | | B1 | | `------+---------> Gnd The voltage at the 12V point is always exactly 1/2 the voltage at the 24V point. This ensures that the batteries maintain equal charge even if you draw power from the 12V tap. The advantage to this approach over the more conventional 24V-to-12V converter running from the 24V buss is that, if the equalizer fails the batteries will still provide approximately 12V to the 12V loads thus allowing you to complete your flight without losing any of your equipment. If you use a converter and it fails you lose all your 12V loads. SurePower makes both battery equalizers and converters with capacities from 10A to 150A. For most aircraft I would suspect a 10A unit would probably suffice. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap terminal crimper
Date: Oct 05, 2004
Thanks Ken and Bob! I just bought one. My previous email has the links for anyone else who is in the market. Dennis --- From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> Dennis It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it. Ken --- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Yes, that is the same tool. I believe there are only a few folks making this tool. I've seen it in the wild with a variety of colored handles but with identical mold and machine marks. I've seen it priced anywhere from $17 or so up to $125 but they're all made in Taiwan, if not by the same company then twin brother companies. Bob . . . --- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub connectors current rating All, Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per pin I guess. Many thanks Kingsley Hurst Europa 281 in Oz. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stanley Mann" <mesllc(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse blocks
Date: Oct 05, 2004
"Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel" Bob, In the past I've used fairly simple arbor press type tooling to insert PCB type terminals. The key is to design the PCB with the proper amount of interference fit to keep the terminal straight during soldering and to design the tooling to make sure the board is flat, supported well below the terminal, and the terminal is inserted perpendicular. This requires much less tooling sophistication (work) as you only tool one pocket to hold the terminal and support rails to keep the board flat. An anvil to put a minimal swage on the legs as they come through the PCB will guarantee that they don't come back out. This duplicates the action of the automatic insertion machines supplied by companies like Autosplice just manually positioned and actuated. A properly sized, plated through hole in the PCB does a good job of keeping things aligned and vertical and provide good vibration fatique resistance. Similar tooling would insert the male faston tabs for outgoing connections. It would seem that one could make a power distribution board that incorporated some other items like undervoltage sensing or OV protection, keep-warm for lights, wig-wag, etc. The simplicity factor is one unit with fewer connections, the down side would be lack of flexibility. Ideas? Stan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: D-sub connectors current rating
> > >All, > >Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both >soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per >pin I guess. > >Many thanks > >Kingsley Hurst >Europa 281 in Oz. It depends on the reliability level you're looking for. 5A for any one pin is the rating . . . if you want to run lots of pins at "power" levels, I'll suggest you de-rate the pins a bit and parallel some pins. I did a design for a solid state power distribution controller for a super sonic target. We had conductors entering and leaving the controller that carried 20A continuous. We designed d-sub i/o connectors into the system and then wired it as illustrated in http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif The long strands of 22AWG add just enough resistance to make pins reliably share the loads. In the case I cited above, 7 pins were used to carry 20A with high degree of reliability. If you need to run more than 5A on one wire, is it continuous or intermittent? If you used the technique cited, you can run a LOT of current through a d-sub connector. My early proof of concept fixture paralleled 12/13 pins together in a single 25-pin d-sub. We tested it at elevated temperatures carrying 40 Amps through each of two conductors for a total of 80A, intermittent loads of twice that amount would not have been a big concern. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> everything
Subject: RE: Unstable generator - Putting one's hands/eyes on
everything everything > > > >This past Saturday, I was going to try swapping out the voltage regulator to > >rule the old one out. I disconnected the leads, started working on the > >ground wire. > > > >I pulled slightly on the wire, and you know what? The wire was improperly > >swaged to the eyelet that grounds it to the airframe... actually, it was not > >even swaged, since the wires were not crushed. The bare wires were just > >making touching contact with the inside of the eyelet, creating an > >intermittent connection. Great! Pleased that you've solved the problem. > . . . . . One of my A/P instructors would get his hands on >everything. Even things directly in front of him that looked secure >he'd give a tug. This method of getting your hands on everything is >paramount to a good inspection and may prevent some FBO from telling >you "it was a bad $diode$". Yup. This is one of the reasons why I've suggested that owners of OBAM aircraft "retie" their bundles under the cowl every annual or so. Don't worry about $high$ tie-wraps. Use any tie-wrap you like but snip them off during the annual (just a few at a time) and look things over for chaffing, cracked insulation, poor bundle routing, etc. The whole operation shouldn't take 15-30 minutes to do under the cowl and it gives you a good look-see on the ship's most vulnerable wires, tubes and hoses. Bob . . . P.S. Been looking into this ageing aircraft wiring thing. So far, 95% of the issues have more to do with poor cleanliness, terrible preventative maintenance and lack of professional attention to detail by mechanics (no doubt due to corporate policy). There ARE a few issues with insulation types but Tefzel is at the bottom of the totem pole for probability of being a trouble maker. Incidentally, in the first 30 documents I've reviewed, I haven't seen Teflon mentioned once. A builder at the St. Louis seminar last weekend recalled Teflon airframe wiring on an old F-4. He had to etch the insulation on the wire before installing a connector to improve bonding of the connector sealing compound to the wire's insulation. I'd forgotten that Teflon is so damned hard to glue, the hi-rel military programs that use potted connectors would have hated the stuff. Watch this space . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2004
Subject: 9 v power supply
Guys, I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit. I'd like to put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep changing batteries. Headsets Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39, and claims you need really stable power input for the ANR to work well. Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down to 9v (I know it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or does it need to be something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap do-it-yourself plans out there for such a power supply? Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta finish wiring... Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Mice and Phones
Date: Oct 05, 2004
The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can someone advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each of these since I have to wire the jackplugs up. Thanks, Steve. RV9a --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: 9 v power supply
I did this in my current plane. Added 9V stable supplies for 4 jacks. I used a component similar to theirs, only larger. It's an isolation system for the power and provides short-circuit protection as well. In the end, for me to track down these components one-by-one, I paid nearly what those separate jacks cost. If I did it again I'd buy theirs. One reason is that they use a very nice threaded-on power plug so it doesn't unplug on you. I was able to find them, but it wasn't easy. Sure, you can hack something together, and I'm sure a zener or a 3-pin regulator would work, but it isn't really a stable or complete solution. I'd say just suck it up and buy their jacks. Besides that, you're flying a -8, right?? It's only about $80, and it makes it real easy to wire. BTW: I absolutely loved the ANR upgrade....so much so that I went out and bought the kids headsets and upgraded them, and did the wife's too. After using them, I can't see being without, and they're every bit as good as my father's lightspeeds, from what I can tell. Tim czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > > > > Guys, > > I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit. > I'd like to put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep > changing batteries. Headsets Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39, > and claims you need really stable power input for the ANR to work > well. > > Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down > to 9v (I know it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or > does it need to be something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap > do-it-yourself plans out there for such a power supply? > > Thanks, > > --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta > finish wiring... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Mice and Phones
Steve Sampson wrote: > >The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can someone >advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each of these >since I have to wire the jackplugs up. > >Thanks, Steve. > >RV9a > The mic plug (smaller diameter) is: tip- push to talk ring- mic audio shield (closest to your hand)- ground or return for both audio & PTT If you have stereo headphones, the shield (closest to your hand) is ground return, & I can't remember which is left & right for tip & ring but you can tell for yourself with a 1.5V flashlight battery & a couple of jumper wires. Tie one end of the battery to the shield & touch the other end to the tip of the headphone connector. The earcup that clicks is tied to the tip & the other is tied to the ring. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
Subject: Re: Mice and Phones
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Do a Google search on "aircraft headset wiring" and what do you know, but the first hit is where Bob published the microphone side... http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html A similar search will show the headphone side.... Regards, Matt- VE N34RD, C150 N714BK > > > The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can > someone advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each > of these since I have to wire the jackplugs up. > > Thanks, Steve. > > RV9a > > --- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse blocks
> >"Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips > that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't > figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and > keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is > to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel" > >Bob, >In the past I've used fairly simple arbor press type tooling to insert PCB >type terminals. The key is to design the PCB with the proper amount of >interference fit to keep the terminal straight during soldering and to >design the tooling to make sure the board is flat, supported well below >the terminal, and the terminal is inserted perpendicular. This requires >much less tooling sophistication (work) as you only tool one pocket to >hold the terminal and support rails to keep the board flat. An anvil to >put a minimal swage on the legs as they come through the PCB will >guarantee that they don't come back out. This duplicates the action of the >automatic insertion machines supplied by companies like Autosplice just >manually positioned and actuated. A properly sized, plated through hole in >the PCB does a good job of keeping things aligned and vertical and provide >good vibration fatique resistance. Similar tooling would insert the male >faston tabs for outgoing connections. I've made some boards doing just that. These particular pins don't stay real straight unless fully seated and I need to shim the part up about .030" for fully seated so that soldering operations later don't wick up into the clip. >It would seem that one could make a power distribution board that >incorporated some other items like undervoltage sensing or OV protection, >keep-warm for lights, wig-wag, etc. The simplicity factor is one unit with >fewer connections, the down side would be lack of flexibility. Ideas? Yes, that's what I've been toying with. It's pretty low on the totem pole of things to do but not so far down that I don't ponder the options. I'm in some discussions with a potential partner for some future products. We think we could produce a kit that would put 90% of the wiring in an RV in 3 hours or less. Don't anybody hold up their projects based on this statement. This will take a highly evolved kit with considerable development, tooling and investment. Yeah, there's some loss of flexibility but 95% of the OBAM aircraft community doesn't care. Folks who hang out on the list discussion DIFFERENT ways to do things are a small part of the total. Most folks would be really happy with some kind of cookie-cutter approach to getting their airplane wired. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Starter vs Master contactor
> > >Bob, Ken, > >Thanks for the clarification. Got to my hangar, schematic in hand and >noticed that that's what I had to do. I was able to get a reading across the >small connector and the mount (ground) but not across the connector and >either of the large connectors on the three terminal variety. Even stranger, >I couldn't get any reading across my four terminal one which is brand new. >On the last one, I was able to get about 14 ohms, so at least that one is >ID'd. Gonna play with it some more tomorrow. I can't believe that two out of >three are toast! Keep in mind all the possible combinations of coil wiring. Not all 4-terminal contactors use two terminals for coils. Some contactors will connect coils internally to one of the main studs, others will connect to the mounting base. You have to poke around a bit to see which combination is used. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: PTC Overload Protectors
> > >Bob, > >Haven't you also suggested that it isn't always a good idea to turn >something back on - if a fuse/breaker blows during flight? I've suggested, as have many others, that it's not always a good thing to fiddle with breakers or mis-behaving accessories in flight. The self re-setting PTC encourages or even forces fiddling activity because of the indefinite nature of PTC operation. When the accessory quits, you're likely to mess around with it not knowing that it's going off line due to over-load of the PTC. A breaker or fuse makes this condition known the first time and at least offers you the opportunity to leave it alone until on the ground. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> penetrations
Subject: Re: stainless towel bar firewall
penetrations penetrations > penetrations > > > > ... I'm always on > > the lookout for other quick-n-dirty but practical substitutes for > > "aircraft quality" parts. > >This is good - do you generally post these somewhere on the >net? I was looking for the "grab bar" solution for quite >some time, and had Rob not pointed it out, I would have >probably never found it! A Matronics archive search should have unearthed the threads about this. I've been toying with a third publication . . . an occasional regurgitation of Tech Tips gleaned from thousands of e-mail threads over the years . . . a sort of frequency asked questions thing as a monthly posting to the website. Each would have a table of contents. They would be .pdf documents so the search engines would catalog them as well. The whole editing task should take more than two, maybe three hundred hours . . . but I am saving the input data for that series of rainy days! Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: barrier strip?
> > >I am trying to figure out what to use physically to distribute the +12 >power for the main bus and the essential bus. I spotted some Molex >barrier strips (well, Beau, actually) that have optional shorting clips >you can insert to connect adjacent screw terminals together. I'm >thinking of attaching +12v supply in a few places to such a strip with >the shorting clips all across. Seems like one barrier strip for each >bus ought to do it. > >Is this acceptable? Is there a better way to do this? You betcha. I haven't used a terminal strip in a new design in decades. Fuse blocks are my personal favorite but breakers and bus bars work too. Take a peek behind the circuit breaker panel of any certified ship. Also look at http://bandc.biz/Fuseholder.html Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 9 v power supply
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Nuffer, Chuck" <CNuffer(at)it21.com>
Hey Mark......... Been sporting a set of Headsets inc ANR's for about 10 years. Great support, great guys. I have the power jacks in my plane..... Yeah, I know $40 a pop, but they work and no noise. Don't exactly know what is on the small board but it's definitely more than a single diode. Good luck...... Regards, Chuck Nuffer -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of czechsix(at)juno.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: 9 v power supply --> Guys, I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit. I'd like to put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep changing batteries. Headsets Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39, and claims you need really stable power input for the ANR to work well. Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down to 9v (I know it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or does it need to be something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap do-it-yourself plans out there for such a power supply? Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta finish wiring... Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Horsten" <airplanes(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Wiring Harnesses
Date: Oct 05, 2004
I decided not to try and tackle the wiring harnesses myself for my Zenair CH-300, except for the power stuff. Instead I went to SteinAir (www.steinair.com) and sent them all my Dsub connectors, intercom jacks etc. What I got back was an excellent, clean and easy to hook up wiring harness for each of my panel components, to my custom specification. The price was excellent, and the workmanship the same. Amidst some of the bad news suppliers being discussed I just wanted to share my great experience with the guys at Steinair. Chris H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: D-sub connectors current rating
Date: Oct 06, 2004
>Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both >soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per >pin I guess. Bob, In view of the fact that you really do owe us nothing, I sincerely appreciate the trouble you go to for the likes of people like me. Thank you mate. I do not have a particular application in mind right now, but can foresee maybe using a d-sub here or there. Not having any idea just how much current they can safely carry, thought I would seek the wisdom available on the list first. In relation to the drawing you did for me at http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif Is that connector a Blue 'PIDGE' Splice ? If so, could you tell me what the 'E' stands for please Bob. Thanks again Kingsley Hurst Europa Classic 281 in Oz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Jig for wiring a 25 pin D-Sub connector
> >Bob....I spent two frustrating hours trying to solder a D-sub connector >onto the 19+ wires of an Infinity Stick. The idea is to be able to remove >the stick during annuals, etc. I eventually threw up the idea and decided >there MUST be some kind of professional jig for wiring these things. >Can you direct me to such a device? > >Many thanks > >Neil You've probably got past this issue by now. Sorry that it slipped so far behind. First, I'd pitch the solder type connector in favor of crimp. You can get the connector housings from Radio Shack (throw away pins that come with their crimp style connector) and substitute machined pins from bandc.biz or steinair.com Both suppliers also sell low cost tools to crimp and extract pins. Soldered connectors are fine too, just less convenient. I'll solder one if there's no convenient option to shift to crimped. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Garmin BNC connector
> > >Listers > >I need to replace the BNC connector on my Garmin 196 GPS aerial lead. >Doe's anyone know what type of connector I need, 50 or 75 ohm? it will be 50 ohm but more likely rated to fit the particular coax as opposed to having an impedance rating. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2004
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>
Subject: Crimpers
Hi all! I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had nearly finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes, I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval, even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter? Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 w/ 582. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net>
Subject: Cheap terminal crimper
Date: Oct 06, 2004
i got the same crimper by Steinair. Olivier -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part de glaesers Envoy : mardi 5 octobre 2004 03:32 : AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com Objet : AeroElectric-List: Cheap terminal crimper I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497 "Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website. I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found the second link but the same description. Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good crimps on PIDG terminals?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281 &rd=1 also http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251 Thanks, Dennis Glaeser ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: william mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
Guy - Here's Bob's shop notes comparing two crimpers: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html Bill > >Hi all! > I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had nearly >finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes, >I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty >much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably >already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the >archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and >need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the >AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG >FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II >and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval, >even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and >splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe >I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter? > >Guy Buchanan >K-IV 1200 w/ 582. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
Subject: Crimpers
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Guy, I found the same crimpers on the B&C site for less than $20 on the web: eBay (may not be there anymore): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281 &rd=1 Also that vendor's website: http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251 Or do a Google or eBay search for 'OTC-4497' or 'wire crimper'. Whatever you get, your local EAA chapter would, I'm sure, appreciate the donation. Alternatively, you can sell things on eBay to recoup some costs when you are done ... Good luck! Dennis Glaeser ------------------------------- From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers Hi all! I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had nearly finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes, I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval, even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter? Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 w/ 582. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Charlie Brame <Charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Instrument wiring
I recently installed a MD40-67 GPS CDI in my instrument panel. The pinout shows three separate 14 VDC power leads to the instrument; however, no amperage information is provided. Can I connect all three leads to the same fuzed power source or should each lead be separately powered and fuzed? I have queried MidContinent about the wiring, but have received no answers. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Avg Power Consumption
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Hello Listers, In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out average current consumption for a few different components. I have called the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to a reliable source? Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com. I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice? The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output. Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used? Any input will be appreciated. Thanks, Grant Krueger Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
With Dual EI, 1 gyro, 1 radio, 1 transponder, and a VM-1000, I run 6~8 amps continuous. Turn on position lights,boost pump,strobes and I am over 20 amps > >Hello Listers, > >In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out >average current consumption for a few different components. I have called >the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me >maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to >a reliable source? > >Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A >transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com. > >I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in >my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to >about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of >error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps >according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice? > >The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum >of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output. >Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used? > > Any input will be appreciated. Thanks, > Grant Krueger > Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Crimpers
Date: Oct 06, 2004
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Guy Buchanan <> 10/6/2004 Hello Guy, You raise two interesting questions: (1)Do the PIDG Faston connectors require different crimping than other forms of PIDG connectors? (2)What particular CSA (Canadian Standards Association) standard says that the answer to the previous question is yes (at least in the Canadians minds) and why do they say so? You seem like the kind of person that would want to know the answers to those two questions. Can we leave it in your good hands to pursue the answers and inform us? OC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 10/05/04
In a message dated 10/6/04 2:57:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > 6. 10:00 AM - 9 v power supply (czechsix(at)juno.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Oct 06, 2004
Subject: Re: 9V Power supply
I have been using the Headsets Inc conversion with a single 9V power supply for two years with no problems. The power supply, if you can call it that is a positive fixed VR, with input of 10 to 20 V, and fixed output of 9V. It could be just this one component, but I put a 100 mike condenser across the output in deference to their stable requirements. It supplies both headsets, and also a recorder of the audio, that will repeat the last 45 seconds, in case you are wondering what ATC really said. I can't tell any difference in operation now and when I was using two 9V batteries. Can't imagine why a separate supply is needed for each headset. The VR cost $1.49. FWIW Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: 9V Power supply
While you're correct that this would give you the proper voltage, it doesn't accomplish the same thing as what you get when they sell their jacks to you. Those are isolated. The circuit that I used was something like this: The 3-pin regulator providing 12V regulated power to the input of a DC/DC converter. They sell you individual DC/DC converters per headset jack. I purchased a MicroPower Direct B1200RU 12W Ultra-Wide input Range Single and Dual Output DC/DC converter. Then I regulated the output to 9V. It was all so that I'd have "sacrificial" components (there was a fuse in there too), so that you could short it out and not affect either the headset, or the rest of the airplane wiring. I knew it was overkill when I built it, but they are using DC/DC converters, and I'm sure they don't do it just so they can sell them to you, so I did it that way too. All in all, I should have just bought the jacks they sold. My cost wasn't too far away from what their parts were. Tim Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com wrote: > > I have been using the Headsets Inc conversion with a single 9V power supply > for two years with no problems. The power supply, if you can call it that is a > positive fixed VR, with input of 10 to 20 V, and fixed output of 9V. It > could be just this one component, but I put a 100 mike condenser across the output > in deference to their stable requirements. It supplies both headsets, and > also a recorder of the audio, that will repeat the last 45 seconds, in case you > are wondering what ATC really said. I can't tell any difference in operation > now and when I was using two 9V batteries. Can't imagine why a separate > supply is needed for each headset. The VR cost $1.49. FWIW Frank > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2004
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
Well, I was hoping someone would have found out long ago, but if not I will track it down. I had good success reaching technical support at AMP and I'm sure they have the answer. I'll let the list know what I find. Guy >You seem like the kind of person that would want to know the answers to >those two questions. Can we leave it in your good hands to pursue the >answers and inform us? > >OC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Listers I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot / Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT connection to the 403mc. Wot you fink Neil Henderson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 07, 2004
On Oct 7, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Neil Henderson wrote: > > > > Listers > > > I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an > existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't > work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is > already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio > but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have > a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push > to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access > without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot / > Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT > connection to the 403mc. The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute. When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT lines through the intercom. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
> >Brian, I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't > > work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? Peter Laurence > > Listers > > > > > > I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an > > existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't > > work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is > > already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio > > but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have > > a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push > > to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access > > without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot / > > Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT > > connection to the 403mc. > > The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute. > When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic > going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT > lines through the intercom. > >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
> >AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Guy Buchanan > > < a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on >the AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG >FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO- >CRIMPER II and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) >approval, even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG >terminals >and splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? >Maybe I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA >chapter? Guy Buchanan>> > >10/6/2004 > >Hello Guy, You raise two interesting questions: > >(1)Do the PIDG Faston connectors require different crimping than other >forms of PIDG connectors? If you're a professional designer of terminals and the tools that install them, you would do well to at least KNOW what the optimum die shapes and pressures are for installing ANY terminal on ANY wire. You would be equally aware of a RANGE of acceptable installations selected such that one tool does an adequate job installing several terminals on several wires. This allows one tool to install a red PIDG on 18, 20, and 22 AWG wire. >(2)What particular CSA (Canadian Standards Association) standard says that >the answer to the previous question is yes (at least in the Canadians >minds) and why do they say so? One can only guess. Without reading a report wherein terminals were installed, data gathered and and a judgement applied as to the adequacy of any particular wire/terminal/tool combination, we're not going to know. The poor man's rule of thumb is described in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf as the "milk-jug" test. One could also repeat the experiment described in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html Check out the cross-section of a finished crimp as illustrated in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg An inexpensive 30x illuminated microscope from Radio Shack will let you do similar studies with ease. It would be interesting to hear what a professional from AMP/Waldom/TB has to say . . . Just be aware that there are OPTIMUM combinations and ACCEPTABLE combinations that cover a RANGE of situations. So while getting their opinions, be sure to ask their recommendations for home workshop testing techniques that would help you explore compatibility of your own combinations of terminals/tools/wire. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
> > >Hello Listers, > > > >In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out > >average current consumption for a few different components. I have called > >the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me > >maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to > >a reliable source? > > > >Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A > >transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com. > > > >I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in > >my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to > >about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of > >error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps > >according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice? Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's also about 2x the price. > > > >The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum > >of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output. > >Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used? The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery, you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge, then 6 amps of headroom would do it. How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to be shown wrong. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument wiring
> > >I recently installed a MD40-67 GPS CDI in my instrument panel. The >pinout shows three separate 14 VDC power leads to the instrument; >however, no amperage information is provided. Can I connect all three >leads to the same fuzed power source or should each lead be separately >powered and fuzed? I have queried MidContinent about the wiring, but >have received no answers. > >Charlie Brame >RV-6A N11CB >San Antonio Many manufacturer's provide multiple pins for power and ground in their connectors. Put a 22AWG in each pin. Extend into the wire bundle 6 to 12" and bring them together into a splice. Continue on from the splice with 20AWG or whatever is appropriate. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: D-sub connectors current rating
> > > >Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both > >soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per > >pin I guess. > >Bob, > >In view of the fact that you really do owe us nothing, I sincerely >appreciate the trouble you go to for the likes of people like me. Thank >you mate. > >I do not have a particular application in mind right now, but can >foresee maybe using a d-sub here or there. Not having any idea just how >much current they can safely carry, thought I would seek the wisdom >available on the list first. > >In relation to the drawing you did for me at > http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif > >Is that connector a Blue 'PIDGE' Splice ? If so, could you tell me what >the 'E' stands for please Bob. Just a slip of the pen . . . my address is on Bainbridge . . . I just didn't watch to see when it was a good time to stop writing. I've redrawn that figure and posted it at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Paralleled_DSub_Pins.pdf Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: VHF Antenna - Comant vs. RAMI
Hi Bob, You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue, since I asked them this question a couple of hours ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor vertically. I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear they don't have to be vertical! Mickey >> >>Re-post original may have gotten lost in the Christmas rush. >>I hope to install the contactor tomorrow. >> >>Hi Bob and All, >> >>Quick question. Is there any concern about mounting a battery contactor with >>the coil tube in the horizontal position? Given the pounding that our >>seaplane will take on the water I wondered if there was any problem with the >>coil holding the contact bar in a horizontal position verses pulling it down >>while in a vertical position. > > There are many a hangar-legend and ol' mechanic's tales circulating > about suggesting that there are critical orientation issues with > respect to contactor installation. All are based upon some > mis-interpretation of facts. The short answer is, No. Please > feel free to mount your contactors to maximize convenience > of installation. > > Bob . . . -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Horizontal contactor
In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time, mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes: Hi Bob, You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue, since I asked them this question a couple of hours ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor vertically. I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear they don't have to be vertical! Mickey Good Afternoon Mickey, For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started to become intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real? I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal contactor
The contactor orientation issues came to a boil more than 10 years ago when some airshow performer landing and discovered a trashed starter and chewed up ring gear. Theory was at the time that g-loads during the show teased the contactor shut and welded it. In all likelihood, the performer was concentrating on the task ahead and did not notice that the starter contactor stuck when the engine was started . . . he probably flew the whole event with the starter motor engaged. Let's noodle through how these things work: The battery contactor has a fairly light spring and yeah, one MIGHT be able to tease an OPEN contactor CLOSED with g-loading . . . but we fly with this contactor already engaged. You're NOT going to drive it OPEN with g-loading. Starter contactors have much heavier springs (for the express purpose of driving contacts open even when they may have stuck a little bit). Starter contactors usually mount on the firwall with their axis of operation parallel to waterlines. Not only is the starter contactor relatively immune from effects of g-loading due to much heavier spring, it's mounted in the airplane such that it doesn't experience g-loads due to aero-maneuvers. Consider further that many folks don't have battery boxes. The battery sets in a shallow tray on a horizontal shelf. There are no vertical surfaces upon which one might mount the battery contactor . . . I sure wouldn't build a bracket for the sole purpose of standing the battery contactor up. That puppy lays down on the shelf right beside the battery. Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest part of the lid. I'll suggest that 99% of the worrying about contactor orientation adds no real value and will at best influence service life by perhaps +/- ten percent. Since we're designing failure tolerant systems from the get-go, I wouldn't loose any sleep over contactor service life. Bob . . . > > >In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time, >mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes: > >Hi Bob, > >You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue, >since I asked them this question a couple of hours >ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor >vertically. > >I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the >archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear >they don't have to be vertical! > >Mickey > > >Good Afternoon Mickey, > >For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about >twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started >to become >intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting >rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical >and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor >about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real? > >I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal. > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob >AKA >Bob Siegfried >Ancient Aviator >Stearman N3977A >Brookeridge Airpark LL22 >Downers Grove, IL 60516 >630 985-8502 > > >--- Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: Horizontal contactor
Hi Bob, >Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the >battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business >end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater >benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the >contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest >part of the lid. Thanks for your explanation. This is another example of where knowledge of how things work can help a lot. The battery contactor is a black box for me. I have only a vague idea what is happening inside. Do you know if anyone has cut one open and posted pictures somewhere? I guess I could sacrifice one of my new ones, and order another. I don't have easy access to used stuff. Also, which end would you consider the "business end", the end with the connections? I was about to mount mine with this end up. I guess another thing to add to your list of things to do is "Everything you wanted to know about contactors, but were afraid to ask". Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Brian Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to transmit at the same time. This must be the case with RST unit because the PTT buttons are connected in parallel directly into the radio. I think I might connect it up and see. Doe's anyone see a problem with this. In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite being looked at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing it. The squelch control pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise ratio is unacceptable, maybe due to the fact that I modified it as built in unit by remote mounting the pot's and switch. RST are not prepared to check it out in this form. The standard RST unit was only availlable as a portable unit. Neil > > > > Listers > > > I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an > existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't > work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is > already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio > but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have > a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push > to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access > without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot / > Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT > connection to the 403mc. The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute. When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT lines through the intercom. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't > > work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? Peter Laurence ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 08, 2004
On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Peter Laurence wrote: > > >>> Brian, > I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. > You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't >>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. > Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? No, that was not from me. I have no experience with Jim's intercom and so cannot comment. I did build and install his marker beacon receiver in my RV-4 and was pleased with its performance. Jim seems to know what he is doing. YMMV. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
Date: Oct 08, 2004
On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A > better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient > output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're > comfortable > with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery, > you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute > recharge, > then 6 amps of headroom would do it. Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more alternator capacity will not speed charging. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
I can't possibly be the only one wondering this, but, why don't you just do the job right and wire it as it was intended, even though it's more work. There's something to be said about doing the job properly. I b1tch up and down every time I have to re-do the wiring in our house because I find something that wasn't done properly. I can only bet that down the road you'd be far happier if everything actually worked as intended, and matches the wiring diagram if someone else has to look at it. Tim Neil Henderson wrote: > > > Brian > > Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to > transmit at the same time. This must be the case with RST unit > because the PTT buttons are connected in parallel directly into the > radio. I think I might connect it up and see. Doe's anyone see a > problem with this. > > In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite > being looked at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing > it. The squelch control pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise > ratio is unacceptable, maybe due to the fact that I modified it as > built in unit by remote mounting the pot's and switch. RST are not > prepared to check it out in this form. The standard RST unit was only > availlable as a portable unit. > > Neil > > > >> >> >> >> Listers >> >> >> I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an >> existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and >> doesn't work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 >> and is already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into >> the radio but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the >> intercom. I have a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and >> Headphones but the push to talk buttons go straight to the radio >> and are difficult to access without a major rewired. Will the >> intercom work with just the Pilot / Co Pilot Mic and Headphones >> connected or must their be a PPT connection to the 403mc. > > > The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute. > When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic > going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the > PTT lines through the intercom. > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com > Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 > > > I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. You stated that the > RST intercom "doesn't > >>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. > > Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? > > Peter Laurence > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 08, 2004
On Oct 8, 2004, at 9:03 AM, Neil Henderson wrote: > > > Brian > > Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to > transmit at the same time. This must be the case with RST unit because > the PTT buttons are connected in parallel directly into the radio. I > think I might connect it up and see. Doe's anyone see a problem with > this. No, that should work but you do have the problem of hushing your passenger when you talk on the radio. Ultimately you are going to find this annoying and will want to wire the PTTs into the intercom. If it were me, I would bite the bullet and rewire properly now. > In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite > being looked at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing it. > The squelch control pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise ratio > is unacceptable, maybe due to the fact that I modified it as built in > unit by remote mounting the pot's and switch. RST are not prepared to > check it out in this form. The standard RST unit was only availlable > as a portable unit. Jim Weir is a bright guy who seems to do a good job designing things. I am surprised you are having problems if you have built it correctly. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
From: earl_schroeder(at)juno.com
I have a couple of RST intercoms that have worked fine for ~10 years. Simple straight forward design. If done per the kit, I see no problems with remote mounting the volume & squelch controls. Earl > > I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. > > You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't > >>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. > > Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Resetting CB in flight//Not in Russia
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Bob seems to have world wide influence :-) (well its nice to think so). The October AOPA pilot mag page 98 has an article on a unique twin amphibian from Russia. ALL the CB are only accessable from outside, on the ground, as "the mfgr "does not want popped breakers to be reset in the air. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
> >On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A > > better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient > > output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're > > comfortable > > with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery, > > you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute > > recharge, > > then 6 amps of headroom would do it. > >Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage >charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to >about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you >can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage >which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn >more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already >have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more >alternator capacity will not speed charging. That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already "too-high". Any lead-acid battery will ULTIMATELY achieve 100% charge at voltage considerably below the nominal 14.2 setting of most regulator products. Our recommended nominal setting on RAC products is 28.5 volts. You're quite correct that optimum recharging of batteries can take advantage of some pretty fancy footwork. See: http://batterytender.com/battery_basics.php If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND- a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does it take to increase a battery's service life by say 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real field data from which one might draw a conclusion. Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule: Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8 may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to tell the difference. When the FAA was crafting the 80% rule, the spirit and intent was pretty clear. If one takes off with 100% of the generator's output is taxed running ship's electro-whizzies, the battery may never get recharged. On the other hand, if you're day-vfr with nothing of significance turned on, then most of the generator's energy production is now surplus and may be used to recharge the battery . . . assuming of course that the battery will accept it. I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6 is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of installation) the return on investment is very problematical. I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks extolling the virtues of elegant charging system design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative return on investment. I.e., certification stifles improvements and may indeed reduce safety. Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage. The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans. The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs will be the driver for a go/no-go decision. Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal contactor
> > >Hi Bob, > > >Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the > >battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business > >end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater > >benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the > >contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest > >part of the lid. > >Thanks for your explanation. This is another example >of where knowledge of how things work can help a lot. >The battery contactor is a black box for me. I have >only a vague idea what is happening inside. Do you know if >anyone has cut one open and posted pictures somewhere? >I guess I could sacrifice one of my new ones, and order >another. I don't have easy access to used stuff. > >Also, which end would you consider the "business end", >the end with the connections? I was about to mount >mine with this end up. I guess another thing to add >to your list of things to do is "Everything you wanted >to know about contactors, but were afraid to ask". See page 11-14 of the 'Connection. Also see: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1a.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1b.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1c.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1d.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1e.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1f.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1l.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1a.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1b.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1l.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702wire.jpg Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Firewall goop
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Cheers, I just gooped the rudder bars which infringe upon the firewall sides. I made overlapping plates either side and gooped the whole opening with a McMaster-Carr offering of "Grace Flamesafe FS-1900 Sealant" - an intumescent, elastomeric Firestop". I put the firepot to a copy of the materials to see, and it kept the flames at bay for at least 15 minutes - and it's good for one year. tech assistance at 866-333-3726 or see at www.graceconstruction.com Ferg A064 www.mcmaster.com - start with page 1683, or search for fire stop compounds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: Radio Range
Date: Oct 08, 2004
I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio. Inside 20 miles it's OK, but I was expecting more. It's an SL30 radio with a clean commant bent-whip antenna under the footwell. What sort of things can I do/check to ensure I'm getting the max performance from it? At this point I'm complaining about receiving, I haven't done any testing with max testing range. Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Radio Range
In a message dated 10/8/2004 10:48:18 PM Central Standard Time, Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes: I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio. Inside 20 miles it's OK, but I was expecting more. Good Evening Larry, What signal are you using to determine range. Are you sure that there is a clear line of sight between your antenna and the radio sending the signal? The curvature of the earth in twenty miles would put any ground based transmitter well out of sight over level ground. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Subject: Radio Range
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I am use to receiving local tranmisions from within certain areas. I can usually pick up the atis from xx miles out. I can usually converse with apch xx miles out. This is unscientifically based on my routines in the local rental fleet over the last six years. Nothing scientific, just impressions......... Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com [mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 11:52 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Range > > > > In a message dated 10/8/2004 10:48:18 PM Central Standard > Time, Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes: > > I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio. > Inside 20 miles it's OK, but I was expecting more. > > > Good Evening Larry, > > What signal are you using to determine range. Are you sure > that there is a clear line of sight between your antenna and > the radio sending the signal? > > The curvature of the earth in twenty miles would put any > ground based transmitter well out of sight over level ground. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Airpark LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8502 > > > ============ > Matronics Forums. > ============ > ============ > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm > ============ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Radio Range
In a message dated 10/8/2004 11:13:18 PM Central Standard Time, Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes: I am use to receiving local transmissions from within certain areas. I can usually pick up the atis from xx miles out. I can usually converse with apch xx miles out. This is unscientifically based on my routines in the local rental fleet over the last six years. Nothing scientific, just impressions......... Thanks, Good Evening Larry, If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic. Be sure that your new radio is getting the same chance at reception that you were getting from the rental airplanes. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Radio Range
Good Evening Larry, If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<< Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet lower at a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still vertical, will be upside down! Transmissions might even come though backwards. Upper sideband will appear as lower, and vice versa. This could smoke your expensive radio... Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a parallel universe; not to worry, I guess. -Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls(at)cox.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avg Power Consumption Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:35:59 -0500 -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls(at)cox.net Hello Listers, In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out average current consumption for a few different components. I have called the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to a reliable source? Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A transpondera Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com. I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice? Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's also about 2x the price. I've been told by many qualifed sources to build light. The BC 20 amp alternator only weighs about 5.75 lbs.....that's 2 lbs lighter than the belt driven Honda alternator I currently have on ( about 0.4 lbs lighter thanBC L-40) which is big, but even bigger when you consider that I can get rid of the belt mounting bracket bolttoo. Once the belt is gone, I don'tneed the groove on the flywheel either so I'm looking at ahuge weight savings by using a vacuum pump pad driven alternator.....assuming it's electrically sufficient.Equally important to me,the airplane I'm buildingwill be nose heavy to begin with.....so by using the SD-20, there is a lot of weight out of the very front the necessary remainder has moved back a couple feet. As for cost, B Coffered tosell me the SD-20 without the STC for the same cost as the L-40. Still real steep at ~$700, but I'll splurge for that kind of weight CG improvement. Call me a lightweight or a weight savings kook.....I bought 32 feet of Eric's copper clad aluminum battery cable replaced the heavy polyvinylinsulation with polyolefin that is 1/2 the weight more temperature resistant. The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output. Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used? The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery, you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge, then 6 amps of headroom would do it. How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to be shown wrong. Bob . . . As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please tell me if otherwise): Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment): Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps * Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps Sub-total 15.95 amps * = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value. Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off the list): Intercom0.16 amps Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps Battery Contactor1.0 amps Sub-total1.285 amps Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps 'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything to go on): Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75 amps I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 - Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety? One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator. Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Grant Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: How to connect solder tab switches into crimp design
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Bob, or others, I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on the toggle, available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic toggles. I just don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy. The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab variety. Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector on the other end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to each switch post, but might need to use something smaller than 1/4 inch. The pigtail would let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not sure if this is a feature or just marginally more work. The switches will be mounted on a subpanel with a service loop. The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels for the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all but the legend spots. Jim Foerster J400, wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Radio Range
In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:23:37 AM Central Standard Time, SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes: Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a parallel universe; not to worry, I guess. -Stormy Good Afternoon Stormy, I understand your skepticism, but that five feet a can make a major difference. At my home drome, I can work a local FAA communication station just fine with the top antenna and can get no contact at all with the bottom antenna. In addition to the signal being grabbed up by the ground clutter, there is always the possibility of getting interference with reinforcing metal in the ground cover. Five feet may not seem like much to you, but it could be a lot to the antenna. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa(at)mwutah.com>
Subject: Alternator shield grounds
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to the firewall single point ground be okay? Thanks, Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Friends, There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a 'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared unit for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time. I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a project. I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very expensive, e.g. $2,500 Jim Foerster ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Radio Range
Old Bob: I hope you recognized tongue-in-cheek :-) You are right that on the ground, 5 feet (belly vs turtledeck) can and often does make all the diffrerence in the readability of an AM signal. I have experienced the detuning effect and the nulls in the pattern on many occasions with belly antennas, and with the other kind, though less often. His question specifically referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet. Different rules apply up there. -Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
Date: Oct 09, 2004
I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB. (and / or just the layout). Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? > > Friends, > > There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a 'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared unit for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time. > > I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a project. > > I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very expensive, e.g. $2,500 > > Jim Foerster > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Comments on Wiring Diagram
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Bob, I'd like to get your comments on my wiring diagram (modified fig Z-11) before I go crazycutting crimping. I don't think I can send an attachment to the list. Would you be willing to comment if I sent you the file off list? Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
Subject: Alt field switch amp rating
I'm picking an alternator field switch. I want to use a locking miniature toggle. I understand that I need a 5 amp breaker on the alt field. The switch I'd like to use doesn't give me a rating at 12 volts. It lists 3 amps at 30 VDC. Is it enough? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Radio Range
In a message dated 10/9/2004 12:59:02 PM Central Standard Time, SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes: His question specifically referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet. Different rules apply up there. -Stormy Good Afternoon Stormy, I guess I missed the reference to an altitude. Sorry for the bad information. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator shield grounds
> >I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now >understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only >ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the >shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to >the firewall single point ground be okay? What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths between the crankcase and airframe. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Jim - I am definitely interested in a pcb for this meter. I don't have a copy of the magazine. Any suggestions as to how to get a copy of the article? Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Hi all, Just re-read an article by Bob about a low ohm adaptator for low resistance measurements. The 10 $ fixture works with a digital multimeter and is powered by dry cell batteries. Working on DC current might be significant for coil measurements, for instance ? Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? > > I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB. (and > / or just the layout). > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? > > > > > > > Friends, > > > > There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on > building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available > from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current > limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio > operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a > 'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for > checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not > measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which > looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very > forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by > 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared unit > for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time. > > > > I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to > share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send > three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of > course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best > arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a > project. > > > > I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very > expensive, e.g. $2,500 > > > > Jim Foerster ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa(at)mwutah.com>
Subject: Alternator shield grounds
Date: Oct 09, 2004
Thanks Bob. Scott >I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now >understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only >ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the >shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to >the firewall single point ground be okay? What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths between the crankcase and airframe. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> crimp design
Subject: Re: How to connect solder tab switches into
crimp design crimp design > > >Bob, or others, > >I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators >at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green >pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an >annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the >green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is >the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf Cute! You realize of course that you'll need to buffer these switches for high current loads (more than 5A or so). Relays or solid-state contactors will be needed for landing lights, pitot heat, nav lights etc. >There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on >the toggle, available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic >toggles. I just don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy. Okay. >The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab >variety. Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector >on the other end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to >each switch post, but might need to use something smaller than 1/4 >inch. The pigtail would let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not >sure if this is a feature or just marginally more work. The switches will >be mounted on a subpanel with a service loop. I'd make the sub-panel removable as an assembly with enough service slack in the wires that you can easily get the assembly clear of the panel for maintenance. Then solder wires directly to the switches and heat-shrink the joints. Make service loops long enough that you can clip off and replace the switch several times. An extra inch of wire should suffice. > The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels for > the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all but > the legend spots. Consider back-engraved lexan placards. You can put colored gels over the lettering from behind and illuminate with white leds for both daylight and nite visibility. >Jim Foerster J400, wiring > > >--- Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Range
> > >Good Evening Larry, > >If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom >mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<< > >Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet >lower at a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still >vertical, will be upside down! Transmissions might even come though >backwards. Upper sideband will appear as lower, and vice versa. This >could smoke your expensive radio... > >Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a >parallel universe; not to worry, I guess. Not at all. The radiation pattern for a quarter-wave vertical antenna over a ground plane peaks at 15 to 20 degrees above the horizon. The top mounted Cessna antennas talk and hear best for stations above the horizon. Bottom mounted antennas will see more of the earth's surface. All things being equal, the bottom mounted antenna should perform best most of the time for communicating with ground stations well below the horizon. For stations a long way off (essentially ON the horizon), it's a toss-up. Depending on bearing of the station and variables of location on the fuselage, top or bottom mounted antennas may trade off the "Top Dog Antenna Awards". Small airplanes are a large departure from idealized installations for resonant antennas. We have some VERY expensive computer software that predicts antenna performance on our "big" ol' bizjets. Even airplanes of this size present some lumpy radiation patterns that depart considerably from the antenna range ideals. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall goop
Ferg, Thanks for the tip. Looking in McMaster-Carr's online catalog, they don't mention the model (FS-1900) on the catalog page. Do I assume correctly, that you are referring to the product which is described as: Water-Based, Expanding- Cures to a flexible seal that, when exposed to heat, expands up to seven times its original volume to fill voids left by melting PVC, plastic pipe, and insulation. Perfect for construction joints where expansion and contraction exist. Can be sanded and painted. Contains no solvents or silicones, and won't emit gases. Install at temperatures from 40=B0 to 90=B0 F. Charlie Kuss > >Cheers, > I just gooped the rudder bars which infringe upon the firewall >sides. I made overlapping plates either side and gooped the whole opening >with a McMaster-Carr offering of "Grace Flamesafe FS-1900 Sealant" - an >intumescent, elastomeric Firestop". I put the firepot to a copy of the >materials to see, and it kept the flames at bay for at least 15 minutes - >and it's good for one year. >tech assistance at 866-333-3726 or see at www.graceconstruction.com > >Ferg >A064 >www.mcmaster.com - start with page 1683, or search for fire stop compounds > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Avg Power Consumption
Date: Oct 09, 2004
On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage >> charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to >> about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you >> can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage >> which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn >> more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already >> have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more >> alternator capacity will not speed charging. > > That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus > voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already > "too-high". Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent the battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall off too soon, before the battery is fully charged. Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I posted for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that. > If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND- > a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the > airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment > decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does > it take to increase a battery's service life by say > 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for > RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real > field data from which one might draw a conclusion. I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse the hell out of their batteries. > Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions > in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule: > Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8 > may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights > once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's > almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to > tell the difference. Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in my pocket. > I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA > OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier > I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated > regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6 > is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of > installation) the return on investment is very > problematical. OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the Unison/Slick electronic magneto system. > I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks > extolling the virtues of elegant charging system > design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may > have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY > for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly > through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading > an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative > return on investment. I.e., certification stifles > improvements and may indeed reduce safety. It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit the output of the alternator to a safe level. > Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating > temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery > life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage. > The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with > a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans. > The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs > will be the driver for a go/no-go decision. > > Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens. Just change the battery every year ... Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WRBYARS(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Hi Bob, Thank you for the info. You're right it is Hitachi. Would you please send me the web site where you found this info, or where I could get additional technical data on the regulator, a schematic, etc. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WRBYARS(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Bob, my previous post left out this info: Hitachi, LT150-62 alternator. Sorry I'm not quite awake yet. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Flightcom Intercom
Date: Oct 10, 2004
On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Peter Laurence wrote: > > >>> Brian, > I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. > You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't >>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?. > Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design? No, that was not from me. I have no experience with Jim's intercom and so cannot comment. I did build and install his marker beacon receiver in my RV-4 and was pleased with its performance. Jim seems to know what he is doing. YMMV. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 11654 Murphy
>Bob > Do you have a sourse for circuit breakers with Fast On terminals. B&C > cannot supply. John Murphy If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on. Really messy. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q
This question is for those of you who have installed a LASAR system on your bird and have *not* used the supplied enunciator light, but instead wired an enunciator light of your chosing. I'm trying to figure out how to wire this. The LASAR enunciator light socket has three inputs: (1) positive voltage from the bus, (2) negative feed, and a third (3) feed which comes from the LASAR ignition black box. I want to wire this to a light socket which has only two posts. I've tried using just 1 and 3 and the light just stays on. Didn't want to experiment much further. Any ideas? -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Bob et al, When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? Thank you in anticipation. Kingsley Hurst Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Miniature switch current ratings-was ?how to wire a
solder type switch...
Date: Oct 10, 2004
Bob, Thanks for your comments. You mentioned that with these smaller switches I would need to use a relay for pitot heat, nav and landing lights, and other high current needs. I reread your chapter on switch ratings, and reread the spec sheet for the NKK 2100 series switches. They are rated for resistive loads only: 3 amps at 30 volts DC, 6 amps at 125 volts AC. With a life cycle of 25,000 electrical and 50,000 mechanical, I don't mind overloading them. But the chapter on incandescent loads is worrisome. I may need to use some of the ugly automobile switches rated for 20 to 30 amps. Radio Shack, Pep Boys, Kragen Auto all have rocker type lighted switches with a round hole mount and 1/4 inch tabs. These use a large bar of copper internally to make contact. I took one apart last year, but can't do the nice photomicrographs that you do to show this. In any event, rather than use relays, I will use a switch with higher ratings for incandescent loads. Listers should know that there are a wide variety of high current switches with LED or illuminated actuators and 1/4 inch tabs. The highest quality unit, made by Cole-Hersee, is about $19 from West Marine, and is slightly larger than a standard toggle but with a plastic case. It is sealed, rated at 30 amps, and has a white LED tip. At the other end of the toggle spectrum, for about $4.00, is a #85909 Conduct-Tite switch from Kragen, also rated at 30 amps. It has a plastic toggle wrapped with an aluminum tube with a red LED at the tip. Looks nice, but I will carry spares. Fortunately, the landing lights are HID from Hella. I don't think the HID ballast will pull the same current spike as a cold filament, so I can use the nice NKK switch. I wonder if it is possible to estimate the risk of a welded switch by the rise in resistance after a small numbers of cycles, say, 100. Perhaps this is another application for the milliohmmeter... Jim Foerster J400, wiring slooowly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Walter, I was using a LED which is blinking (gets your attention faster). The 2nd post is just used as a push to test, that is the reason you have three, but as the ignition is on fault when you switch it on and do the magneto check, you do not need this functionality. You did wire it correctly, as the enunciator will go out, when the engine is running after about 20 seconds only =(;o). Just in case you have once problems starting after the first splutters, try to "reset" the Lasar by switch off power for a few seconds, then engage again and it will start immediately. Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Tondu" <walter(at)tondu.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q > > This question is for those of you who have installed a LASAR > system on your bird and have *not* used the supplied enunciator > light, but instead wired an enunciator light of your chosing. > > I'm trying to figure out how to wire this. The LASAR enunciator > light socket has three inputs: (1) positive voltage from the bus, > (2) negative feed, and a third (3) feed which comes from the LASAR > ignition black box. I want to wire this to a light socket > which has only two posts. > > I've tried using just 1 and 3 and the light just stays on. > Didn't want to experiment much further. > > Any ideas? > -- > Walter Tondu > http://www.rv7-a.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Morning, Kingsley.. Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more. If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875 inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches. In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a 3/16" bolt. Harley Dixon Kingsley Hurst wrote: > >Bob et al, > >When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the >weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) >terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 > >Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of >sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" >stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? > >Thank you in anticipation. > >Kingsley Hurst >Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Morning, again, Kingsley... I just noticed your location! I see now why you would be confused! Trying to deal with us Americans who create their own number systems (or use archaic ones unrelated to actual dimensions). Sorry I didn't notice that the first time. Here's a chart that may help: http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14043/css/14043_100.htm Harley Harley wrote: > >Morning, Kingsley.. > >Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw >sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more. > >If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most >likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875 >inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches. > >In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a >3/16" bolt. > >Harley Dixon > > >Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > > >> >>Bob et al, >> >>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the >>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) >>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 >> >>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of >>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" >>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? >> >>Thank you in anticipation. >> >>Kingsley Hurst >>Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Boy...I am having a bad morning...swore off coffee for awhile...maybe I should get back on it! Anyway, Kingsley, I sent you a link to the wrong chart. That one was for wood screws! Here's the one for machine screws: http://bosunsupplies.com/ScrewSizesThreads.cfm Shutting down, and getting a cup of coffee.. Harley Harley wrote: > >Morning, again, Kingsley... > >I just noticed your location! I see now why you would be confused! >Trying to deal with us Americans who create their own number systems (or >use archaic ones unrelated to actual dimensions). > >Sorry I didn't notice that the first time. > >Here's a chart that may help: > >http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14043/css/14043_100.htm > >Harley > > >Harley wrote: > > > >> >>Morning, Kingsley.. >> >>Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw >>sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more. >> >>If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most >>likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875 >>inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches. >> >>In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a >>3/16" bolt. >> >>Harley Dixon >> >> >>Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>Bob et al, >>> >>>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the >>>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) >>>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 >>> >>>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of >>>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" >>>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? >>> >>>Thank you in anticipation. >>> >>>Kingsley Hurst >>>Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q
On 10/11 8:20, Werner Schneider wrote: > > Walter, > > I was using a LED which is blinking (gets your attention faster). > > The 2nd post is just used as a push to test, that is the reason you have > three, but as the ignition is on fault when you switch it on and do the > magneto check, you do not need this functionality. > > You did wire it correctly, as the enunciator will go out, when the engine is > running after about 20 seconds only =(;o). > > Just in case you have once problems starting after the first splutters, try > to "reset" the Lasar by switch off power for a few seconds, then engage > again and it will start immediately. Thanks Werner, I very much appreciate your help! I figured that the light would go out after 20 seconds with the engine not running but the EI engaged. If it stays on until the engine is running that explains it all. Thanks again. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Miniature switch current ratings-was
> > >Bob, > >Thanks for your comments. You mentioned that with these smaller switches I >would need to use a relay for pitot heat, nav and landing lights, and other >high current needs. I reread your chapter on switch ratings, and reread the >spec sheet for the NKK 2100 series switches. They are rated for resistive >loads only: 3 amps at 30 volts DC, 6 amps at 125 volts AC. With a life >cycle of 25,000 electrical and 50,000 mechanical, I don't mind overloading >them. There's overload and then there's OVERLOAD. The spirit and intent of the switch ratings article was to dispel the notion that a switch is teetering on the edge of failure if you run say 10A through a 7A switch. > But the chapter on incandescent loads is worrisome. I may need to >use some of the ugly automobile switches rated for 20 to 30 amps. Incandescent inrush are high with respect to normal operating currents but they are short lived . . . tens of milliseconds. Pitot heat inrush is not as high but lasts 100-500 times longer due to long time constant of the heavier mass to heat. > Radio >Shack, Pep Boys, Kragen Auto all have rocker type lighted switches with a >round hole mount and 1/4 inch tabs. These use a large bar of copper >internally to make contact. I took one apart last year, but can't do the >nice photomicrographs that you do to show this. In any event, rather than >use relays, I will use a switch with higher ratings for incandescent loads. > >Listers should know that there are a wide variety of high current switches >with LED or illuminated actuators and 1/4 inch tabs. The highest quality >unit, made by Cole-Hersee, is about $19 from West Marine, and is slightly >larger than a standard toggle but with a plastic case. It is sealed, rated >at 30 amps, and has a white LED tip. At the other end of the toggle >spectrum, for about $4.00, is a #85909 Conduct-Tite switch from Kragen, also >rated at 30 amps. It has a plastic toggle wrapped with an aluminum tube >with a red LED at the tip. Looks nice, but I will carry spares. > >Fortunately, the landing lights are HID from Hella. I don't think the HID >ballast will pull the same current spike as a cold filament, so I can use >the nice NKK switch. Sounds like you're doing the homework. I'm not trying to discourage you . . . I just want you to have the benefit of all the data you need to make a well considered decision. Consider inrush limiters like those found here: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1047.pdf >I wonder if it is possible to estimate the risk of a welded switch by the >rise in resistance after a small numbers of cycles, say, 100. Perhaps this >is another application for the milliohmmeter... Here's a couple of articles on poor-man's milliohm measurement: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Practical_Low_Resistance_Measurements_A.pdf I don't think I've ever seen a switch weld in service. Contact sticking is generally a low force event that is easily overcome by operating forces of the switch lever. Relays, especially small ones are another matter. Their return spring forces are comparatively light. Contact resistance in a switch is inversely related to current flowing in the switch. See: http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/001008_3.pdf and http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/010172.pdf Keep us informed of your progress! Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Alt field switch amp rating
> >I'm picking an alternator field switch. I want to use a locking miniature >toggle. I understand that I need a 5 amp breaker on the alt field. The >switch I'd like to use doesn't give me a rating at 12 volts. It lists 3 >amps at 30 VDC. Is it enough? yes. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
> > >Bob et al, > >When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the >weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) >terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 > >Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of >sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" >stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? American standard threads for small machine screws come in numbered sizes 000 (tiny) through 12 (just under 1/4"). See: http://corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/tools/screwinfo.html So a numbered terminal without decimals or fractions are referring to numbered thread sizes. Decimals and fractions are referring to actual hole size in the terminal. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: care and feeding of batteries
> >On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >> Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage > >> charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to > >> about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you > >> can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage > >> which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn > >> more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already > >> have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more > >> alternator capacity will not speed charging. > > > > That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus > > voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already > > "too-high". > >Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to >ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent the >battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a >proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the >battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall >off too soon, before the battery is fully charged. Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . . >Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I posted >for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting >reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that >flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that. There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's published data on battery performance is based on laboratory tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field but at some point, return on investment just isn't there any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery than it's worth. > > If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND- > > a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the > > airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment > > decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does > > it take to increase a battery's service life by say > > 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for > > RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real > > field data from which one might draw a conclusion. > >I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse >the hell out of their batteries. Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general utility sources. > > Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions > > in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule: > > Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8 > > may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights > > once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's > > almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to > > tell the difference. > >Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have >solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I >have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator >controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift >from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank >there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in >my pocket. Most battery manufacturers state that their products will sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of energy exchanged. Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps 2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine. Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at battery charge while stopped at a light. > > I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA > > OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier > > I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated > > regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6 > > is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of > > installation) the return on investment is very > > problematical. > >OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't >provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra >complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the >Unison/Slick electronic magneto system. Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have "properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about 50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the recycling pile a couple of years ago. 100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your batteries down to less than 50% charge? > > I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks > > extolling the virtues of elegant charging system > > design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may > > have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY > > for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly > > through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading > > an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative > > return on investment. I.e., certification stifles > > improvements and may indeed reduce safety. > >It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for >the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long >way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit the >output of the alternator to a safe level. Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning. This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah, if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such a device for a whole lot less than $225. > > Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating > > temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery > > life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage. > > The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with > > a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans. > > The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs > > will be the driver for a go/no-go decision. > > > > Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens. > >Just change the battery every year ... That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting 500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about a year. Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most mechanical devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of battery. No two batteries are treated the same way. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Resetting CB in flight//Not in Russia
> >Bob seems to have world wide influence :-) (well its nice to think so). > >The October AOPA pilot mag page 98 has an article on a unique twin amphibian >from Russia. >ALL the CB are only accessable from outside, on the ground, as "the mfgr >"does not want popped breakers to be reset in the air. > >Paul We're seeing breakers fleeing the cockpit in droves. Eclipse has no breakers in the cockpit. I'm working with several new designs in the certified world that won't have breakers in the cockpit. I'd like to think we had that much influence but good, simple-ideas have a way of propagating themselves. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 11654 Murphy
>Bob > Do you have a sourse for circuit breakers with Fast On terminals. B&C > cannot supply. John Murphy If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on. Really messy. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Date: Oct 11, 2004
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <> 10/11/2004 Hello Kingsley, My apologies. Sometime in the distant past someone in our non metric society came up with the brilliant idea of sizing machine screws by assigning them numbers. If there is a consistent numerical relationship between these numbers and the actual diameters of the screws I have not yet found it. What I have done is create an Excel spread sheet with several different screw (and bolt and rivet) diameters displayed for ready reference. I keep this spread sheet under plastic in my shop and refer to it often. I will send you a separate email direct with a copy of this spread sheet attached (attachments will not go through the listing). The data on the spread sheet will be in inches, not metric, but I know that you already have a sheet that gives you that data conversion information. OC PS: If any other listers would like a copy of this Excel spread sheet just email me direct and I will email one to you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Date: Oct 11, 2004
Kingsley, This is yet another system for sizing screws and it is used in general for screws less than 1/4 inch in diameter. A No. 10 screw is the same as 3/16 screw. Look at the following tables for screw sizes. http://www.csgnetwork.com/drillsizeconvert.html http://www.csgnetwork.com/screwnummachtable.html John, A230 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals > > Bob et al, > > When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the > weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red) > terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4 > > Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of > sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16" > stud, what is the correct number equivalent ? > > Thank you in anticipation. > > Kingsley Hurst > Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Radio Range
Date: Oct 11, 2004
I understand that theory says you have to have line of sight, but in practice this is not the case. 20 miles out having descended 200' behind the crest of a line of hills I can hear them clearly. Similarly at my home strip I can talk to them from the ground with the intervening ground higher than both locations. What is happening in practice? Is this a reflection? Thanks, Steve. --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Radio Range
> > >I understand that theory says you have to have line of sight, but in >practice this is not the case. 20 miles out having descended 200' behind the >crest of a line of hills I can hear them clearly. Similarly at my home strip >I can talk to them from the ground with the intervening ground higher than >both locations. What is happening in practice? Is this a reflection? > >Thanks, Steve. Reflections, refractions, etc. The fact that you were so close (20 miles) means that the direct, line of sight signal would be very strong. It also means that once the direct signal is shadowed, various sources of scattered signals, while many dB below a direct signal, are still strong enough to be heard by a good receiver. Atmospherics can have a strong influence although they're more rare. I was sitting on my front porch in Wichita one morning as a cold front was moving across the area. I was playing with a new hand held 2m transceiver and stumbled across a repeater I'd not heard before. Turned out to be 150 miles South in Oklahoma City. I had several conversations with stations in Oklahoma City over the course of an hour before the VHF ducting effects of the cold front faded. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Poor Man's Solder Sleeve?
I looked at these a couple of years ago. They're not a PIDG style splice . . . even if you close the insulation jacket down on the wire outside the metal splicing sleeve, there's marginal support of the wire outside the wire grip. May I suggest an alternative? We know that solder sleeves have a wide following in aviation and other venues for splicing wires. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/628.pdf http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/406%20Solder%20Sleeves.html http://www.raychem.com/US/datasheets/REVISED32004/Sec_8/8-006_8-011_SolderSleeve.pdf So, if we can get past the ol' saw about "make it mechanically secure and then solder for electrical integrity", how about this? http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_1.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_3.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_4.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_5.jpg This technique provides equivalent mechanical and electrical integrity with your ordinary hand tools for a lot less cost than pe-fabricated solder sleeves and splices. The only edge I can see for solder sleeves is the sealant included in each end of the sleeve . . . but the radio shack spice cited above isn't sealed either . . . nor is the classic PIDG butt-splice. Everything "magic" happens at the crimp/soldered joint. The next requirement is to support the joint to reduce flexure of the stranding just outside the crimp/solder joint. I'll suggest that the technique described meets our needs nicely for a fraction of the cost. Bulk of the slice is small too. However, if you're splicing a bundle of multiple wires, it's still a good idea to stagger the splice locations along the bundle. Bob . . . > > >Gang: > >I found another type of crimp connector at Radio Shack about which I'd >like to get some comments. RS calls them "Insulated Telephone Butt >Connectors, for 22-26 gauge wire", PN 64-3073. Them come in packs of 24 >for about $1.50. > >These connectors are *much* smaller and lighter than PIDG for the same >wire size, appear well matched to 22-gauge tefzel aircraft wire, but do >not crimp the insulation. Instead, because of the good size match, the >insulation receives some support from the insulator of the connector. >RS sells a manual (non-ratcheting) crimp tool for this connector for ><$10. > >I have placed a picture of this connector, a crimp and the tool at > >http://members.cox.net/n481hy/connector/connector.jpg > >I like these because of their small size and weight, which makes for >neat wiring, especially for wiring repairs. The crimps easily pass my >"pull" test. But I would really like comments on aircraft applications >please. If anyone knows of a ratcheting crimper for this connector (or >die for my HX4), that would be great, too. > >Thanks, >Andy Elliott >N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ >http://members.cox.net/n481hy/ --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Z-13 - latest version of 'simplification'
> > >I've learned some more about Autocad (Intellicad actually) and figured out >how to use the symbol "blocks", etc. > - Wasn't able to eliminate the "alternator switch" and only use the CB. >Reason: The OVM's relay coils are hooked up to the batt bus so it would >suck the battery dry unless there's a switch to disconnect the coil after >engine shutdown/overnight, etc. I don't want to use the CB after every >shutdown - rather "use a switch for a switch - not a CB". > >I printed my dwg file as pdf and re-posted to my website. Hope to get some >feedback form 'Lectric Bob and others. > - Especially what I did to the Endurance Bus circuit. I don't like >diodes - they fail, even though they are said to be "solid state, highly >reliable". My experience is otherwise. Rather use a simple switch to >select how the E-bus gets fed when the electrons hit the fan. > >http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html A single pole, double throw e-bus switch was used in early versions of drawings with an e-bus . . . but discarded because it's a single point of failure for the e-bus power. The goal of an effective e-bus implementation is DUAL, independent pathways for power to the e-bus. Hence the diode drive normal path from the main bus and a switched alternate path directly from the battery. The 20AWG fuse-link in the e-bus alternate feed path is not necessary. The diode across the starter push button is ineffective for catching the spike generated by the starter engagement solenoid. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf Don't understand the diode across the battery contactor. If the 35A PM alternator is your only alternator, there's no reason not to wire per Figure Z-11 with an alternator ov disconnect contactor per Z-24. Does the alternator have a grounded center tap on its AC output winding? If not, then there's no advantage in disconnecting both ends of the output lead. Lo Voltage warning is the same as for any other system. You need a sensor/flasher module equal to http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.jpg installed like http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf or build your own like http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf Last, please don't call this drawing "Figure Z-13". It's a long way from that which I published. Once modified in any way, it's whatever you want to call it but NOT what I called it. It's possible that problems people perceive with some OBAM aircraft are attributed to the 'Connection when in fact, they are concepts borrowed from the 'Connection but modified in significant ways. I don't perceive much "simplification" that doesn't negate some feature that was a considered part of the original architecture. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Potter & Brumfield W31 CBs
Can anyone comment on the suitability of the W31 Switch/Circuit Breaker combination or possibly suggest another similar type unit? Are these suitable for aircraft use? Also, ETA makes some circuit breakers that plug into an automotive style blade-type fuse block ( http://www.etacbe.com/n_america/e-t-a/etacbeframeset.html go to "thermal" then the 1610 model), this may be a way to have the best of both worlds: circuit breaker operations simplicity as well as fuse block assembly simplicity. Any thoughts out there? Dan Fritz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: care and feeding of batteries
Date: Oct 11, 2004
On Oct 11, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to >> ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent >> the >> battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a >> proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the >> battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall >> off too soon, before the battery is fully charged. > > Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc > all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get > a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . . OK, I posted all this a couple of months back but here is the table for charge and float voltages recommended by Deka for their AGM batteries at different temperatures: Temp. Charge Float Temp. F Optimum Maximum Optimum Maximum C 120 13.60 13.90 12.80 13.00 49 110 120 13.80 14.10 12.90 13.20 43 49 100 110 13.90 14.20 13.00 13.30 38 43 90 100 14.00 14.30 13.10 13.40 32 38 80 90 14.10 14.40 13.20 13.50 27 32 70 80 14.30 14.60 13.40 13.70 21 27 60 70 14.45 14.75 13.55 13.85 16 21 50 60 14.60 14.90 13.70 14.00 10 16 40 50 14.80 15.10 13.90 14.20 4 10 40 15.10 15.40 14.20 14.50 4 I find that the numbers for AGMs seem to fall into the ranges specified for flooded cell batteries so I tend to use AGM numbers for FC batteries too. >> Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I >> posted >> for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting >> reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that >> flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that. > > There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their > are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's > published data on battery performance is based on laboratory > tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can > try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field > but at some point, return on investment just isn't there > any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery > than it's worth. That may be so. Today it is very easy to optimize the three-stage charging regimen (constant-current, constant-voltage at the charge voltage, step down to constant voltage at the float voltage when the battery is charged) for batteries based on temperature. Three-stage charge regulators for alternators that include temperature compensation are pretty darned cheap. Some even include alternator load sensing or alternator temperature sensing to prevent large loads from exceeding the capacity of the alternator. And all at a fraction of the cost of the B&C LR-3x. >>> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND- >>> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the >>> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment >>> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does >>> it take to increase a battery's service life by say >>> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for >>> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real >>> field data from which one might draw a conclusion. >> >> I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse >> the hell out of their batteries. > > Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery > manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing > batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general > utility sources. That is true. We usually don't pull much out of our starting batteries before putting it back. But the proliferation of sealed batteries makes it much more likely that we will damage the batteries by overcharging if the charge controller does not step down to the proper float voltage. The only point I am making in all of this is that, with a single charge voltage setting, even if temperature compensated, if you set the charge voltage high enough to push juice back into the battery, you are going to be overcharging that battery once it is fully charged. Once the battery is fully charged, keeping the voltage above the float voltage will stress the battery. Given the very poor and very consistent experience I have had with AGM batteries failing in aircraft with one voltage setting, I believe this to be a common problem in aircraft. >> Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have >> solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I >> have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator >> controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift >> from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank >> there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in >> my pocket. > > Most battery manufacturers state that their products will > sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their > original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some > advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that > any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of > energy exchanged. I agree. > Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps > 2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine. > Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not > a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect > lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual > a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at > battery charge while stopped at a light. Right. But I still hold that batteries need not fail in 18 months if properly treated. And that has been my experience with AGM batteries in certified aircraft use. >> OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't >> provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra >> complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the >> Unison/Slick electronic magneto system. > > Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have > "properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well > over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in > instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about > 50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery > Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries > were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a > week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the > recycling pile a couple of years ago. > > 100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles > per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your > batteries down to less than 50% charge? On my boat? My normal daily cycle is about 25%-30% discharge. Every couple of months I pull them down to about 70% discharge to check that they are still delivering normal capacity. Deka claims that I should see 600 cycles to 80% discharge and 2100 cycles at 25% discharge. So I should still see something close to a 5 year life at these rates. >> It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for >> the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long >> way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit >> the >> output of the alternator to a safe level. > > Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator > control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning. > This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah, > if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some > scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such > a device for a whole lot less than $225. And the three-stage regulators are a charge control system. What's in a name? OTOH, once you put in the microprocessor you can combine some of the functions to reduce parts count. >> Just change the battery every year ... > > That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting > 500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about > a year. > > Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most > mechanical > devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive > to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult > to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of > battery. > No two batteries are treated the same way. It all depends on what you want. As the man says, "you pays yer money and you takes yer choice." Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Solder Sleeve?
> > >I looked at these a couple of years ago. They're not a PIDG style >splice . . . even if you close the insulation jacket down on the >wire outside the metal splicing sleeve, there's marginal support >of the wire outside the wire grip. May I suggest an alternative? > >We know that solder sleeves have a wide following in aviation >and other venues for splicing wires. > >http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/628.pdf > >http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/406%20Solder%20Sleeves.html > >http://www.raychem.com/US/datasheets/REVISED32004/Sec_8/8-006_8-011_SolderSleeve.pdf > >So, if we can get past the ol' saw about "make it mechanically secure and >then solder for electrical integrity", how about this? I've formalized the solder sleeve photos into a shop notes on the website at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Potter & Brumfield W31 CBs
> >Can anyone comment on the suitability of the W31 Switch/Circuit Breaker >combination or possibly suggest another similar type unit? Are these >suitable for aircraft use? About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying in Bonanzas and Barons. >Also, ETA makes some circuit breakers that plug into an automotive style >blade-type fuse block ( >http://www.etacbe.com/n_america/e-t-a/etacbeframeset.html go to >"thermal" then the 1610 model), this may be a way to have the best of both >worlds: circuit breaker operations simplicity as well as fuse block >assembly simplicity. Breakers are more complicated that fuses. Even the least expensive fuse will perform as designed. If you want to go the fuseblock route, I'd recommend you use fuses. If you want to go with breakers. The W31 is an okay breaker. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Date: Oct 12, 2004
To all six who "enlightened" me re the sizing convention of Ring Tongue Terminals. Thank you gents, much appreciated. I looked on the Net but couldn't find what I wanted to know. Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at years ago. Cheers all Kingsley Hurst in Oz ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: voltage regulators b&c
From: james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com
Date: Oct 12, 2004
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 03:07:15 AM Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if I need to get it upgraded James K Glindemann ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: voltage regulators b&c
> >Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's >LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if >I need to get it upgraded > > >James K Glindemann The LS1 was the very first design that was built in a very small quantity before we decided that the design needed to be changed. I recommend you acquire a new one. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
Date: Oct 12, 2004
On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:40 AM, Kingsley Hurst wrote: > Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't > help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained > by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at > years ago. As I recall, bolt sizes and thread pitches were more consistent in the "English Standard" world than they are in the metric world. One could get by with a much smaller stock of fasteners. But even given that, I agree that having things spec'd by their size rather than some seemingly ambiguous convention is a win. If we only lived in a perfect world. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Alternator Fuse Location
Date: Oct 12, 2004
By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor connection and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to the main buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I like it because it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11 doesn't protect the lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But maybe I don't understand the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator output shouldn't be connected to the main buss without a fuse in between so I thought I'd ask. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: voltage regulators b&c
From: james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com
Date: Oct 13, 2004
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 04:47:06 PM Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of performing the modifications if it is possible. I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world. James K Glindemann ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: voltage regulators b&c
> >Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor >component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a >complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft >electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of >performing the modifications if it is possible. It was a major re-design. LR1 was the first product that flew on about two dozen OBAM aircraft and Voyager for the closed-circuit shakedown flight. We discovered some things from field experience that we didn't like and the LR-2 replaced the LR-1. LR-2 regulators went around the world. Of course, that was all a long time ago and the LR3 is up to revision C or so. I don't even recall now what the differences were. B&C may have drawings that go back that far. You can always ask. >I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it >very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you >and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes >things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline >type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world. Most of what passes for certified doesn't add much value over and above modern components that evolve while certified components are frozen in time due to cost of making any changes . . . even good ones. OBAM aircraft are the future of small GA aircraft. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Fuse Location
> >By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor >connection and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to >the main buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I >like it because it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11 >doesn't protect the lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But >maybe I don't understand the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator >output shouldn't be connected to the main buss without a fuse in between >so I thought I'd ask. You don't want to use one fuse to "protect" both leads. A fault in the alternator takes down your main bus normal feed path too. Recommend you wire as depicted. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2004
From: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: SL-40 and 403mc
Bob. I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40 radio. I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be no longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave me conflicting or incomplete information. The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit key line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line labeled "avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same "ground" used to power the 403mc. The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio panel. There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic audio, mic ground, and com mic key. The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to figure out. The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw it up and have to re-do it. What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7) connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not connecting any jacks directly to the SL-40? Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"? In this case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all be connected together. ------ Also. The 403mc manual says that you can insulate the headphone jacks (which I intend to do) and run the return wires back to the intercom. It then goes on to say "do not use the same ground wire for the headphone and microphone jacks." The microphone jacks return to pin 13 on the 403mc (mic return), but where do the headphone jack returns go? Pin 1, the same ground that's used to power the intercom? The 403mc manual says to use shielded wire on all jacks. However, it doesn't say where to connect the sheild. Do I use the shield as the return line and connect both ends, or do I use a separate wire for the returns and connect only one end of the shield to a chassis or something? I'm hoping to avoid the ground loop problem and do this thing right the first time. Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: inverse dimmer
Date: Oct 12, 2004
I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the dimmer circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite rings and avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest in sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the Digitrak's display to dim. I could always rig up a separate dimmer just for the Digitrak, which I would keep high during the day, low at night...but I'd rather not do that if I can "automate" the inversion somehow. I'm sure the answer is simple (I hope), but can the electronics gurus on this list enlighten me as to how I can rig up something like this? In case it's a factor, I don't currently have a panel lights switch, they're on the dimmer's lowest setting all the time (keep warm). Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Power Consumption II
Date: Oct 12, 2004
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to be shown wrong. Bob . . . As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please tell me if otherwise): Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment): Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps * Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps Sub-total 15.95 amps * = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value. Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off the list): Intercom0.16 amps Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps Battery Contactor1.0 amps Sub-total1.285 amps Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps 'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything to go on): Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75 amps I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 - Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety? One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator. Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Grant Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: SL-40 and 403mc
Date: Oct 12, 2004
On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Geoff Evans wrote: > > > Bob. > > I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40 > radio. > > I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be > no > longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave > me > conflicting or incomplete information. > > The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit > key > line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line > labeled > "avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same > "ground" > used to power the 403mc. > > The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio > panel. > There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic > audio, mic > ground, and com mic key. > > The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to > figure out. > The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw > it up > and have to re-do it. > > What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7) > connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not > connecting any > jacks directly to the SL-40? > > Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"? > In this > case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all > be > connected together. Tie the grounds together at the radio. The intercom ground will tie to The SL-40's audio ground, mic ground, and power ground. As for your headphone and microphone jacks on the intercom, use the shields as ground and tie them together at a single point at the intercom. Do insulate the jacks from the airframe (important for the mic, less so for the headphones). If you do ground the headphone jacks to the airframe break the shield at the jack so as to prevent a possible ground loop. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: inverse dimmer
Date: Oct 12, 2004
On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Dan Checkoway wrote: > > > I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the > dimmer > circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite > rings and > avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming > functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest > in > sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the > Digitrak's > display to dim. Actually, you want the Digitrak's light to be bright in sunlight and then dim along with the other panel lights when they are on. If you use a DPDT switch for your panel lighting you can use the other pole to switch power to the display light in the Digitrak when the other lights are switched off. Use a diode from the dimmer circuit to the digitrak panel light so that when you turn the panel lights off the current to the digitrak's display lighting doesn't flow back into your panel lighting circuit. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Avg Power Consumption III
Date: Oct 12, 2004
Bob et al, Please let me clarify that last post: I am very interested in putting a 20 amp alternator in my plane 'cuz of the weight CG advantages offered. Iwas concerned that 20 ampsmight not be sufficient outputbut now Ihavesome additional data, (indirectly from this list - thanks!), that my steady state electrical load (see below)will be about 16 amps with position lights strobes on. Seeing as how I don't plan on using position lights strobes together very often I am installing a 14 AH battery I feel comfortable with the installation.......unless someone can point out a major flaw in my reasoning......or unless Bob would strongly recommend against it. How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to be shown wrong. Bob . . . As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please tell me if otherwise): Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment): Whelen Position Lights5 amps Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps * Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps Sub-total 13.45 amps * = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value. Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off the list): Intercom0.16 amps Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps Battery Contactor1.0 amps Sub-total1.285 amps Total w/o 'Fudge Factor'~15 amps 'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything to go on): Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1 amp Ithink this fudge factor is stillpretty high....but still thinka bigfactor of safety is good when faced with a lack of knowledge. Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. I wont bug the list aboutthis topic again Thanks, Grant Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Bob, I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP construction) Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . . . Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at some time. Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these little things that I get hung up on. Thank you Kingsley Hurst Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a 16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss with a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection is turned on. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; in flying a virgin plane never flown before. - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump > > Bob, > > I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard > back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP > construction) > > Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . . > . > > Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and > ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these > two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at > some time. > > Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these > little things that I get hung up on. > > Thank you > > Kingsley Hurst > Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Larry, I think Kingsley asked for a detachable connection for the pump. On devices I have to remove very seldom I would use knife splices maybe with a shrink tube over it. However, I did my facet pump (which has very short cables) with a but splice and might change them if I ever have to replace them with a knife splice. Have a look at http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?12X358218#s891rb or http://www.steinair.com/terminals.htm or http://www.edmo.com/s2/s2-2.asp and scroll down. Werner I've mine hooked up on the E-bus, however mine is a high wing with the pump only necessary very seldom (when the mechanical would fail). ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump > > Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a > 16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss with > a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from > switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog > that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection is > turned on. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" > > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; > in flying a virgin plane never flown before. > - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard > > back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP > > construction) > > > > Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . . > > . > > > > Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and > > ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these > > two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at > > some time. > > > > Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these > > little things that I get hung up on. > > > > Thank you > > > > Kingsley Hurst > > Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
> > >Bob, > >I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard >back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP >construction) > >Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . . >. > >Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and >ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these >two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at >some time. > >Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these >little things that I get hung up on. I'd recommend knife splices with heat shrink over them. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
> > >Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a >16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss with >a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from >switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog >that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection is >turned on. Why such fat wire and fuse? These critters draw about 3A peak and less than 1A average. 22AWG on a 5A fuse would be fine. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Hedding" <tim(at)bandc.info>
Subject:
Date: Oct 13, 2004
James, I think Bob may be mistaking the LR1 for the LS1. The LR1 is a very early regulator and should be upgraded. However, the LS1 and LS1A are very close designs. Basically the components in the input end of the LS1A have higher voltage ratings than the components in the input end of the LS1. When the standby version of the LS1 (the SB1B-28) was certified in the same system as a competitor's primary voltage regulator, it was found that the primary system's over-voltage protection could allow the bus voltage to exceed the voltage rating of the standby regulator's input component voltage ratings and possibly damage the standby regulator. Not a good thing. So, the voltage rating of the input components was increased to withstand any probable primary system over-voltage. The LS1A was merely upgraded to the higher voltage rating components so that we did not have to stock each of these parts in two different voltage ratings. This is probably way too much explanation to simply tell you that there is no reason to replace the LS1 you have. Tim Hedding, E.E. at B&C Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if I need to get it upgraded James K Glindemann ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: wingtip antenna SWR field data
I have now completed the initial fabrication and set-up of a copper-foil wingtip comm antenna patterned after the design in the Aeroelectric Connection. The overall dimensions are similar to the ones in the book, except that I made most of the radiating element rather fat, 1.5 to 2 inches in width (3 or 4 parallel strips of the copper foil tape, tack-soldered together at points along their adjoining edges. The gamma network uses a small air-variable capacitor which is mounted so as to be field-adjustable via a screwdriver inserted through a small hole in the underside of the wingtip. The foil itself is applied to the aft portion of the interior undersurface of the conventional (not "sheared") Van's wingtip. Coax feed is via RG-400 with a service disconnect at the outboard wing rib. Nav light wiring is dressed as far forward in the wingtip as possible to minimize interaction with the antenna. I learned some interesting things from comparing antenna analyzer measurements at the bench and on the plane, both in flight and on the ground. To summarize, the antenna as prorotyped is very broadband, with a W-shaped VSWR curve (two minima), and SWR measurements obtained in flight (far away from any nearby detuning objects or ground) were NOT different enough from ground-based measurements to justify airborne tweaking of the design. This is nice to know, since adjustments are only possible and measurements so much easier to obtain on the ground! VSWR values obtained in flight are as follows: 114 MHz - 1.6 118 MHz - 1.3 123 MHz - 1.7 127 MHz - 1.2 134 MHz - 1.7 138 MHz - 1.5 141 MHz - 2.5 143 MHz - 3.0 As I said, this is one very broadband antenna! I hope this is due to its shape factor and not to low Q! The bimodal SWR curve shape probably results from the antenna itself being resonant at a different sweet spot than the gamma matching network is. Reactance readings vary wildly across the tuning range as the analyzer signal is swept across the band. The counterpoise section length does influence the performance of the antenna on the bench, as I alluded in an earlier post. Some of the SWR curve's strange shape might reflect resonances on the counterpoise section or the nav light wiring. Basic antenna shape: ______ Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: VOR Antenna Challenged
I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy. Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or aft bending of the antennas for VOR's? This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most anything as long as I get the right specs. Signed: Antenna Challenged. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Challenged
Date: Oct 13, 2004
Check out Kent Paser's book - "Speed with Economy" . It has the info you're looking for. I have a copy and it's got loads of fun stuff..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOR Antenna Challenged <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy. > Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper > tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or > aft bending of the antennas for VOR's? > This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied > antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most > anything as long as I get the right specs. > > Signed: > Antenna Challenged. > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR1/LS1 Regulators by B&C
Opps! Put my foot into that one didn't I. Yes the LS1 and LR1 are entirely different critters. Thanks for bailing me out Tim! Bob . . . > > >James, > >I think Bob may be mistaking the LR1 for the LS1. The LR1 is a very early >regulator and should be upgraded. However, the LS1 and LS1A are very close >designs. Basically the components in the input end of the LS1A have higher >voltage ratings than the components in the input end of the LS1. When the >standby version of the LS1 (the SB1B-28) was certified in the same system as >a competitor's primary voltage regulator, it was found that the primary >system's over-voltage protection could allow the bus voltage to exceed the >voltage rating of the standby regulator's input component voltage ratings >and possibly damage the standby regulator. Not a good thing. So, the voltage >rating of the input components was increased to withstand any probable >primary system over-voltage. The LS1A was merely upgraded to the higher >voltage rating components so that we did not have to stock each of these >parts in two different voltage ratings. > >This is probably way too much explanation to simply tell you that there is >no reason to replace the LS1 you have. > >Tim Hedding, E.E. at B&C > > >Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's >LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if >I need to get it upgraded > > >James K Glindemann > > >--- Bob . . . -------------------------------------------------------- < Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition > < of man. Advances which permit this norm to be > < exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the > < work of an extremely small minority, frequently > < despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed > < by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny > < minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes > < happens) is driven out of a society, the people > < then slip back into abject poverty. > < > < This is known as "bad luck". > < -Lazarus Long- > <------------------------------------------------------> http://www.aeroelectric.com --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LR1/LS1 Regulators by B&C
From: james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com
Date: Oct 14, 2004
01, 2004) at 10/13/2004 07:23:39 PM Thank you Bob and Tim, the history and detail were just what I wanted. James K Glindemann ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Potter and Brumfield
"About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying in Bonanzas and Barons." Thanks Bob. Are the W31s used in the other aircraft used as switches or just as CBs with other switches in series? > Dan Fritz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
Date: Oct 14, 2004
Bob, Larry and Werner Thank you for your replies. It WAS the detachable connection I wanted to sort out so heat shrink covered knife splices it is. Regards Kingsley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2004
From: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
An interesting aside to Bob's notes and descriptions of the crimpers supplied by B&C as referenced in the link below. Bob's references to the B&C crimpers say that the two sides of the dies are the same and it matters not which way the terminals go into the tool. I took delivery of an RCT-1 crimp tool from B&C last week and in the tool supplied to me, the two sides of the die are NOT the same. The side of the tool intended for the insulation grip has a diamond shape to it while the wire attachment side has an oval shape. The results obtained with this tool as currently supplied by B&C are almost identical to the $high$ tool shown in Bob's article below. The end view from the insulation grip end has a nicely formed diamond pattern just as shown in Bob's photograph depicting the results with the $high$ tool. It may be that the "el-cheapo" manufacturers are catching on and copying more detail from the $high$ tools than in the past. Bob McC william mills wrote: > >Guy - > >Here's Bob's shop notes comparing two crimpers: >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Challenged
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > >I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy. >Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper >tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or >aft bending of the antennas for VOR's? >This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied >antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most >anything as long as I get the right specs. I cringe every time I see or hear of someone wanting to glue stuff to the inside of a perfectly good canopy . . . but TECHNICALLY, what you propose will function. Departure from a straight line dipole is more for convenience/ appearances than anything else. You have to test the antenna at an instrumented antenna range to measure the effects on performance. If it were MY hand held, I'd provide a means for connecting it to the existing COM antenna as a back up to the ship's regulator com radio -OR- install a dedicated COM antenna for the hand held . . . and keep polishing that canopy for the ultimate clarity of vision and aura of craftsmanship. Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Potter and Brumfield
> >"About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying > in Bonanzas and Barons." > >Thanks Bob. Are the W31s used in the other aircraft used as switches >or just as CBs with other switches in series? W31 are a whole lot more expensive than a simple switch. The only rational thought process for using them would be to eliminate the need for another breaker on the bus . . . but of course, using these switches forces you to have two busses - one for the breakers that don't "switch" and one for the switches that "break" Are you planning a breaker panel for non-switched functions? Bob . . . --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: care and feeding of batteries
Date: Oct 14, 2004
On Oct 11, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to >> ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent >> the >> battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a >> proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the >> battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall >> off too soon, before the battery is fully charged. > > Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc > all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get > a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . . OK, I posted all this a couple of months back but here is the table for charge and float voltages recommended by Deka for their AGM batteries at different temperatures: Temp. Charge Float Temp. F Optimum Maximum Optimum Maximum C 120 13.60 13.90 12.80 13.00 49 110 120 13.80 14.10 12.90 13.20 43 49 100 110 13.90 14.20 13.00 13.30 38 43 90 100 14.00 14.30 13.10 13.40 32 38 80 90 14.10 14.40 13.20 13.50 27 32 70 80 14.30 14.60 13.40 13.70 21 27 60 70 14.45 14.75 13.55 13.85 16 21 50 60 14.60 14.90 13.70 14.00 10 16 40 50 14.80 15.10 13.90 14.20 4 10 40 15.10 15.40 14.20 14.50 4 I find that the numbers for AGMs seem to fall into the ranges specified for flooded cell batteries so I tend to use AGM numbers for FC batteries too. >> Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I >> posted >> for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting >> reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that >> flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that. > > There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their > are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's > published data on battery performance is based on laboratory > tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can > try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field > but at some point, return on investment just isn't there > any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery > than it's worth. That may be so. Today it is very easy to optimize the three-stage charging regimen (constant-current, constant-voltage at the charge voltage, step down to constant voltage at the float voltage when the battery is charged) for batteries based on temperature. Three-stage charge regulators for alternators that include temperature compensation are pretty darned cheap. Some even include alternator load sensing or alternator temperature sensing to prevent large loads from exceeding the capacity of the alternator. And all at a fraction of the cost of the B&C LR-3x. >>> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND- >>> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the >>> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment >>> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does >>> it take to increase a battery's service life by say >>> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for >>> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real >>> field data from which one might draw a conclusion. >> >> I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse >> the hell out of their batteries. > > Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery > manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing > batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general > utility sources. That is true. We usually don't pull much out of our starting batteries before putting it back. But the proliferation of sealed batteries makes it much more likely that we will damage the batteries by overcharging if the charge controller does not step down to the proper float voltage. The only point I am making in all of this is that, with a single charge voltage setting, even if temperature compensated, if you set the charge voltage high enough to push juice back into the battery, you are going to be overcharging that battery once it is fully charged. Once the battery is fully charged, keeping the voltage above the float voltage will stress the battery. Given the very poor and very consistent experience I have had with AGM batteries failing in aircraft with one voltage setting, I believe this to be a common problem in aircraft. >> Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have >> solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I >> have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator >> controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift >> from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank >> there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in >> my pocket. > > Most battery manufacturers state that their products will > sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their > original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some > advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that > any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of > energy exchanged. I agree. > Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps > 2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine. > Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not > a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect > lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual > a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at > battery charge while stopped at a light. Right. But I still hold that batteries need not fail in 18 months if properly treated. >> OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't >> provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra >> complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the >> Unison/Slick electronic magneto system. > > Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have > "properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well > over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in > instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about > 50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery > Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries > were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a > week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the > recycling pile a couple of years ago. > > 100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles > per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your > batteries down to less than 50% charge? On my boat? My normal daily cycle is about 25%-30% discharge. Every couple of months I pull them down to about 70% discharge to check that they are still delivering normal capacity. Deka claims that I should see 600 cycles to 80% discharge and 2100 cycles at 25% discharge. So I should still see something close to a 5 year life at these rates. >> It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for >> the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long >> way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit >> the >> output of the alternator to a safe level. > > Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator > control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning. > This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah, > if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some > scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such > a device for a whole lot less than $225. And the three-stage regulators are a charge control system. What's in a name? OTOH, once you put in the microprocessor you can combine some of the functions to reduce parts count. >> Just change the battery every year ... > > That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting > 500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about > a year. > > Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most > mechanical > devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive > to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult > to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of > battery. > No two batteries are treated the same way. It all depends on what you want. As the man says, "you pays yer money and you takes yer choice." Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
Didn't know they had a new tool. I presume that it comes packaged with some kind of instructions that make note of proper terminal positioning in the un-symetical dies. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to get Todd to send me one to look at. Bob . . . > > > >An interesting aside to Bob's notes and descriptions of the crimpers >supplied by B&C as referenced in the link below. Bob's references to the >B&C crimpers say that the two sides of the dies are the same and it >matters not which way the terminals go into the tool. I took delivery >of an RCT-1 crimp tool from B&C last week and in the tool supplied to >me, the two sides of the die are NOT the same. The side of the tool >intended for the insulation grip has a diamond shape to it while the >wire attachment side has an oval shape. The results obtained with this >tool as currently supplied by B&C are almost identical to the $high$ >tool shown in Bob's article below. The end view from the insulation grip >end has a nicely formed diamond pattern just as shown in Bob's >photograph depicting the results with the $high$ tool. It may be that >the "el-cheapo" manufacturers are catching on and copying more detail >from the $high$ tools than in the past. > >Bob McC --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Fordham" <consult(at)island.net>
Subject: Fuel Capacitance Plates
Date: Oct 14, 2004
Hi I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6 inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any thoughts much appreciated. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Hi Chris, What you said is correct - distance between the plates is one of the factors determining capacitance - the others being plate area and dielectric properties of the insulator seperating the plates. Correct my if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that there are two probes, wired in parallel in each RV-4 wing - one at the inner rib and one at the outer rib. Each probe consists of a plate mounted on the end rib using insulating spacers. If so, the distance between the inner rib and the outer rib will have no impact on the function of the circuit. The critical dimension is how far from the plate is mounted from the end rib. Having a probe at each end of the tank just gives you the capability to measure the fuel level more accurately at both nearly empty and nearly full - the dihedral of the wing means that the inboard probe is fully submerged until a fair amount of gas is burned off, and the outboard probe reads fully dry even with a usable amount of fuel still in the tank. Having two probes in parallel also doubles the effective capacitance - probably makes the circuit more robust. Hope that helps. Regards, Matt Prather C150 N714BK, VE N34RD > > > Hi > I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space > between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is > greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was > designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of > dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6 > inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any > thoughts much appreciated. > Chris > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates
Date: Oct 14, 2004
On Oct 14, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Chris Fordham wrote: > > > Hi > I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space > between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is > greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was > designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of > dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6 > inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any > thoughts much appreciated. Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same spacing and surface area. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates
Brian Lloyd wrote: > > >On Oct 14, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Chris Fordham wrote: > > > >> >> >>Hi >> I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space >>between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is >>greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was >>designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of >>dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6 >>inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any >>thoughts much appreciated. >> >> > >Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same >spacing and surface area. > >Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza >brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 >+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 > >There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good >citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. > > > > The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the same surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be the same.. Jerzy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Fuel Capacitance Plates
Date: Oct 14, 2004
You are going to calibrate the fuel level indicators as one of the last steps before the first flight, so it would seem to me that the size and distance between the plates will be compensated for in the calibration process. Terry RV-8A with capacitance gauges, wiring > The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the same surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be the same.. Jerzy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates
Date: Oct 14, 2004
On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:55 PM, Jerzy Krasinski wrote: >> Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same >> spacing and surface area. > The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse > proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter > directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how > many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the > same > surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be > the same.. That was my point and the reason for saying that the surface area and spacing should be the same. That would eliminate the need to re-calibrate the indicator. Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802 I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: VOR Antenna Challenged
Oh no, gluing nothing to the canopy. I would be using copper tape. The hand held works great in COM mode its the VOR that has no distance. > > > > ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > >I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy. > >Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper > >tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or > >aft bending of the antennas for VOR's? > >This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied > >antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most > >anything as long as I get the right specs. > > I cringe every time I see or hear of someone wanting to > glue stuff to the inside of a perfectly good canopy . . . > but TECHNICALLY, what you propose will function. > > Departure from a straight line dipole is more for convenience/ > appearances than anything else. You have to test the antenna > at an instrumented antenna range to measure the effects on > performance. > > If it were MY hand held, I'd provide a means for connecting > it to the existing COM antenna as a back up to the ship's


October 02, 2004 - October 14, 2004

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