AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-do
October 02, 2004 - October 14, 2004
minds want to know . . ."
In short...looks like a great idea, looks like it will work and they are
getting a lot of orders for them!
You can read all about them at the website you indicated, www.emagair.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
Canandaigua, NY
Mike Brogley wrote:
>
>
>Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list:
>
> http://emagair.com/
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>--
>Mike Brogley
>mikebrogley(at)ieee.org
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful -
They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In
fact is your looking for foam grips they have them.
jerb
>
>
>Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks?
> It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and
>feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50.
>Scott in VAncouver
>RV-6, 150 hours
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Riley" <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch
>
>
> >
> >
> >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put
> >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype
> >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great,
> >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!!
> >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did
> >>something stupid instead of buying my product and
> >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas
> >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note
> >>that after reading through all the hype that they
> >>employ the cheap solution.
> >
> > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We
> > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just
> > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood
> > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying
> > we'd stolen his design.
> >
> > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty
> > good
> > indication of who he is.
> >
> > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better
> > than
> > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce.
> >
> > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and
> > salvaging
> > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick
> > itself. Like this one
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill & Marsha" <docyukon(at)ptcnet.net> |
Subject: | Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher |
Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along with a Spa 400
Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics Website does not show this
combination.
Thanks Bill
S.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Let's try this again....
Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and helpful -
They have a basic foam grip on up that will work for your application. In
fact is your looking for foam grips they have them.
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html
jerb
> >
> >
> >Might I suggest trying the replica B-8 stickgrip from Wicks?
> > It has multiple switches, plus the four-way, coolie-hat trim switch, and
> >feels much more substantial than the video-game Infinity, all for $50.
> >Scott in VAncouver
> >RV-6, 150 hours
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Richard Riley" <richard(at)RILEY.NET>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >>Just in passing, I must say that I was a little put
> > >>off by the Infinity Grip's website. To much of hype
> > >>along the lines of 'buy my super-great,
> > >>designed-for-airplane product, or you'll DIE!!
> > >>Someone told me at a big flyin that someone else did
> > >>something stupid instead of buying my product and
> > >>they DIED!!' It sort of obfuscates the simple ideas
> > >>and basic physics concept. It's interesting to note
> > >>that after reading through all the hype that they
> > >>employ the cheap solution.
> > >
> > > My first year at Oshkosh I was with the newly debuting Berkut. 1991. We
> > > weren't offering them for sale, we didn't have a booth, we were just
> > > handing out spec sheets and seeing if people were interested. JD stood
> > > about 20 feet away, handing out spec sheets for his Infinity and saying
> > > we'd stolen his design.
> > >
> > > 13 years later, his plane still hasn't flown. The website is a pretty
> > > good
> > > indication of who he is.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, his stick isn't bad. Way too expensive, but better
> > > than
> > > most of the the other sticks in Aircraft Spruce.
> > >
> > > I think your best bet is going to be buying a stick off Ebay, and
> > > salvaging
> > > it for the hat switch. Shipping will be way more than the stick
> > > itself. Like this one
> > >
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5126667828&rd=1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher |
From: | earl_schroeder(at)juno.com |
I notice that the Spa 400 (perhaps all Sigtronics intercoms) run in
parallel with the mic/com jacks. Some allow aux inputs which I wonder if
Bob or someone has explored? I'd be interested in a cell phone input.
Thanks, Earl
> Is their a way to use a Sigtronics RES stereo audio switcher along
> with a Spa 400 Intercom? (It is not a 401 switcher) Sigtronics
> Website does not show this combination.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | earl_schroeder(at)juno.com |
> Check out these folks, I've found them to be very friendly and
> helpful -
> http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html
As a user of one of the original trim motors made available by Mr M. in a
Mustang II and an observer of this growing company, I too would like to
recommend checking their products. A fine bunch of folks IMHO.
Earl E Schroeder Lancair N233EE Cessna N3595J
5436 Saint Phillips Rd S
Evansville, Indiana 47712
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
Everybody else is responding to this thread, so I guess I will take my
turn too. I just bought 2 of the CH Products stick grips for $98 each
including mounting bushings. They are a maker of top of the line
computer control sticks which are used for games mostly, but also for
controlling instruments. Kevin Williamson at CH will send you one to
examine at no charge.
One thing to note about computer control sticks is that they get about
100 times more cycles on the switches than aircraft control sticks.
Killing space aliens is a much more demanding task than talking to the
tower. So, I'm expecting it to be very durable.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
----- Original Message -----
From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Date: Saturday, October 2, 2004 11:15 am
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hat switch
>
> Let's try this again....
> Check out these folks, I've found them to be very
friendly and
> helpful -
> They have a basic foam grip on up that will work
for your
> application. In
> fact is your looking for foam grips they have them.
>
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html
> jerb
>
They will also sell just the $50 hat switch. In
fact, that is where I found the dimensional diagram
for it. Right now, I'm working up an order for
Mouser. Their switch is only about $2, but they
have a $25 minimum, so I'm trying to throw in a
bunch of stuff that I think I'll eventually need.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
Subject: | Annunciator LED's |
I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at
the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending
on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they
should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them
for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | very basic magneto info |
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: very basic magneto info
<>
10/2/2004
Hello Tom, I know how you feel it is like doing business with a technology and
a company whose philosophies are firmly rooted in about the 1928 era when magneto
fired farm tractors were in their heyday. Maybe I can help a little.
<>
Sounds correct. The P (P for primary coil) lead comes off a capacitor inside the
magneto and when that P lead is connected to a source of ground the magneto
will not send high voltage out the ignition harness wires to the spark plugs.
<<2- There is a fitting about the size of a quarter which has 6 or 8
small holes in it. I this some sort of vent?>>
Good guess - on the exploded parts diagram that is called Air Vent.
<<3- There is a screw holding on what looks like a metal "cap" about the
size of a quarter. What is this? Is it an electrical connection?>>
Not an electrical connection, but Air Vent with Hood.
<<4- When one grounds the P-lead, is it enough to connect the P-lead to
any system ground, or are there 2 electrical connections on the magneto
that are connected together to best achieve grounding?>>
There is a Phillips head screw on the magneto marked GND. You can connect the shield
on the P lead shielded wire to that screw with a crimped on ring terminal.
At the other end of the P lead you can have a switch that will connect the
P lead shield to the P lead core wire when you want to ground the magneto. This
would be the OFF position of the magneto switch.
<>
The memo is a publication from Unison called the F-1100 Master Service Manual.
You can get a form to subscribe to this manual on the Unison web site initial
cost is $50. Yearly subscriptions are $30. Probably overkill for a non A&P.
If you will email me direct your postal mailing address I will copy a few pages
from my manual, including an exploded parts diagram, and mail them to you. Should
help a bit.
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
Richard,
I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to
be cheaper there than anywhere else.
check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List
For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very
bright, and they are real attention getters.
Jerzy
Richard Riley wrote:
>
>I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at
>the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending
>on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they
>should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them
>for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote:
>
>
>Richard,
>I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to
>be cheaper there than anywhere else.
>
>check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List
>
>For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very
>bright, and they are real attention getters.
Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status
indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For
gear up warning I'll use a blinker.
I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for
the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum
resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/
20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there
is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always
reduce the current using bigger resistors.
Jerzy
Richard Riley wrote:
>
>At 02:24 PM 10/2/04, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>Richard,
>>I strongly recommend blinking LEDs. I got the LEDs on Ebay. They seem to
>>be cheaper there than anywhere else.
>>
>>check http://stores.ebay.com/SHOP-LED-Product-List
>>
>>For important things get three color blinking LEDs. Threy are very
>>bright, and they are real attention getters.
>>
>>
>
>
>Most of the things I want lights for aren't trouble indicators, just status
>indicators - like gear down, gear in transit, electric fuel pump on. For
>gear up warning I'll use a blinker.
>
>I notice that the blue and green LEDs seem to have a lot less lumins for
>the same power as the red. Will I need to adjust that with resistors?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
That will get you close. But different types of diodes have different
forward voltage drops. The blue ones, for example, are quite large,
whereas the old silicon red diodes were just one normal Silicon diode
drop - about 0.7v. I put them in a circuit with a 12v battery and a 1K
resistor and actually measure the voltage drop across the diode with a
volt meter. Then the equation becomes (13.8 - Vf)/I = R where Vf is
the forward drop that you measured across the diode. Plug in the
current in amps to get resistance in ohms or vice versa. As Jerzey
says, most are in the 2 - 3 volt range.
The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma
range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although
ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things
are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men
have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently.
Jerzy Krasinski wrote:
>
> You have a current limit, usually 20ma per diode. This defines minimum
> resistance and the highest brightness. The minimum resistance is 10V/
> 20mA = 500ohms. I put 10V rather than 12V in the formula because there
> is avoltage drop ~2-3V accross the diode. Obviously you can always
> reduce the current using bigger resistors.
>
> Jerzy
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
In a message dated 10/02/2004 2:24:22 PM Central Standard Time,
richard(at)RILEY.NET writes:
I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at
the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending
on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they
should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them
for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted.
>>>
Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf
Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and
you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work
great, plenty bright, cheap etc.
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
At 07:30 PM 10/2/04, you wrote:
>The modern super bright LEDs make a LOT of light in the 10ma to 20ma
>range. The red ones seem to give the most light per milliamp, although
>ultimately, your subjective impression is all that counts. These things
>are pretty spectrally pure. If you're a little color blind (10% of men
>have some red-green color blindness) you'll see it differently.
Fortunately I'm not, but my dad was. He couldn't see red led indicators
*at all* - the early calculators were useless to him.
He also couldn't tell the difference between the red light and the green
light on a stoplight. Years ago some genius in the city planning
commission decided it would be artsy to start turning stoplights
sideways. Of course they couldn't be bothered to turn them all the same
direction. Dad raised hell about it, they backed off. It was the reason
he could never get a pilot's license. He was a heck of a stick, but never
got the paper.
I guess I'll just need to buy a bunch of sample LEDs of various colors and
intensities, make up a test rig and start playing.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
At 08:07 PM 10/2/04, you wrote:
>Use these: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1429.pdf
>Go to figure 3 at the bottom of the page- no blues, but put some SRV on and
>you won't need them! I used the red and yellow on my annunciator, they work
>great, plenty bright, cheap etc.
SRV? Stevie Ray Vaughan?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
On 10/02 1:19, Richard Riley wrote:
> I'm building annuniators into my panel. I plan on mounting colored LED's at
> the back of the cavity to light them - red, green, yellow or blue depending
> on the function. Does anyone have relevant experience on how bright they
> should be to be readable in daylight? I'm assuming I'll have to dim them
> for night. Suggestions of specific parts would be *gratefully* accepted.
Instead of having to calculate the resistance for each of the colored
LEDs, why don't you create a box with interchangeable front colored
face plates, something that you could affix a label of your choice.
And just use white LEDs behind it all.
I spent a considerable amount of time trying to tackle this very
thing. In the end, I want to fly sooner so I'll fabricate this after
I'm flying... If you want, contact me offline.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "glaesers" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
Subject: | Re: Annunciator LED's |
I bought some LEDs to play with from these folks - red, green, yellow, blue,
and white. The brightest are definitely bright enough for daylight.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm
You can get a solid state dimmer from Eric Jones
(http://periheliondesign.com).
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Brogley <mikebrogley(at)ieee.org> |
Thanks Harley.
My apologies to the list for the duplication of an earlier question - I
searched subject lines back through summer 2003, but should have
searched the body text of the list.
Sorry.
--
Mike
Harley wrote:
>
>Morning, Mike...
>
> >> http://emagair.com/
>Any thoughts?<<
>
>Oh yes! I've ordered both types for my Lycoming O-235...next batch is
>due to be completed in October.
>
>Have heard nothing negative about them yet, and seem like the idea of
>the century! About the only problem I can foresee is that some of
>the pusher planes may not have enough room to mount the self powered "P"
>version (it's "longer" than the basic e-mag) between the engine
>accessory case and the firewall...but, in that case, Emagair will supply
>the parts to remote the top half of the P-Mag. The smaller, E-Mag unit
>will fit...I have a Long EZ, and preliminary measurements show that both
>types (I ordered one of each) will fit my installation without modification.
>
>One of the guys on the Canard Aviators list (Ken Miller) is waiting for
>a set of them...he is going to have Mattituck install them and Dyno test
>them in his plane ... and our own Bob Nuckolls has commented on the idea
>after seeing the web site.
>
>To quote a paragraph is Bob's email;
>
>"Emag is one of the most exciting new ideas to come along in OBAM
>aircraft ignition systems in 10 years. If I owned an OBAM
>aircraft, I'd put ONE of these critters on order right now.
>I've e-mailed a few folks directly asking them to consider
>this product for their currently-flying aircraft. Inquiring
>minds want to know . . ."
>
>In short...looks like a great idea, looks like it will work and they are
>getting a lot of orders for them!
>
>You can read all about them at the website you indicated, www.emagair.com
>
>Harley Dixon
>Long EZ N28EZ
>Canandaigua, NY
>
>
>Mike Brogley wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Just saw this referred on the RV-10 list:
>>
>> http://emagair.com/
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>--
>>Mike Brogley
>>mikebrogley(at)ieee.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does
not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is
easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals
on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have
the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments.
Thanks,
John Schroeder
Lancair Super ES 82%
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Bob Kuc wrote:
>
> If you look at the CH products site, you will see that they sell the 4 way
> switch of $2.00 and it is not surface mount. They do not list the hat for
> sale. Maybe the mouse hat will fit it.
>
> http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.html
>
> Better thatn trying to get the surface mount to work.
>
For me, the issue is now solved.
I made the mistake of walking into Wal-Mart yesterday with a brand new
$20 bill in my pocket. I should have known better, but I guess I was
just looking for trouble.
There, sitting all by itself on the shelf, was the last Cyborg Graphite.
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg
I walked out the store, exactly $21 lighter, and took my new prize
straight home and began the deconstructive surgery. The hat switch
lifted off in a nice, self-contained package.
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg
Internal inspection revealed an ingenious arrangement of cheap switches.
A single screw captures a post that engages one or two of four tactile
momentary switches that are mounted sideways. It removes the need to
provide arms out of the center post to actuate the switches and also
keeps the assembly compact. I believe the same configuration could be
easily reproduce with some scrap fiberglass and a ounze of epoxy, and
then there would be convenient post to solder to.
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchInternals.jpg
I would like to thank everyone for their input,
--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Subject: | open barrel crimper for small wires |
clamav-milter version 0.80c
on juliet.albedo.net
Would anyone know of a small open barrel crimper (butt cheek crimper). I
have done a fair bit of looking and the best I have come up with is one
for 16awg (1.5 metric) wire with a width inside the jaws of 0.11 inches.
From the photos I suspect that is about the same as the one from B & C.
I need a unit for 18 to 22 awg wire. After crimping, these finished
connections are 0.065 inches wide, 0.80 inches wide, and 0.090 inches
wide. I can get by with something that does 0.090 wide finished crimps
but anything larger and the pins won't fit into the connectors. This is
for the EFI connections on my auto engine conversion so I'll break out
the soldering iron and start splicing rather than spend huge dollars.
But it would certainly be worth a moderate expenditure for something
that would do the job.
thank you
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Sigtronics RES Audio Switcher |
On Oct 2, 2004, at 11:48 AM, earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> I notice that the Spa 400 (perhaps all Sigtronics intercoms) run in
> parallel with the mic/com jacks. Some allow aux inputs which I wonder
> if
> Bob or someone has explored? I'd be interested in a cell phone input.
> Thanks, Earl
I have had nothing but problems with the Sigtronics intercoms.
Paralleling the output of the intercom with the output of the audio
panel works only if the output impedance of the audio panel is
relatively high, not true for modern audio panels. I finally gave up
and switched to using PS Engineering intercoms. Even their cheapest
intercom far outperforms the Sigtronics.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
Subject: | Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
John Schroeder wrote:
>
>My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does
>not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is
>easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals
>on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have
>the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments.
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Schroeder
>Lancair Super ES 82%
>
>
>
Use the format below to find the manuals that your looking for:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
Some one post a message listing all the links a while back but I don't
remember which list.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DonEavesRV6" <DonEavesRV6(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
John:
Garmin removed the installation manuals from the download site for liability
reasons -
I Got everything with my GPS except the installation manuals -
Call Garmin they may email you one. If not, you will have to go to a dealer
to get one -
Also Bob Nuckolls has some "Radio Pinout Guides" @
http://www.aeroelectric.com/ -
This may be all you need -
Don Eaves
RV6 Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
>
>
> My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin does
> not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is
> easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals
> on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have
> the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
> Lancair Super ES 82%
>
> --
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
John,
You are gonna love this.
I have cut and paste from a post I made off the rv-list message #124797.
Every Garmin manual ever made can be had by folling the below message.
Enjoy.
Mike Stewart
=======
Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found
by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the
scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some
file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill
try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But
for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its
in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference
Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds
of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have
wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals
which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to
get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in
case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the
appolo site down. I got a file from him like
sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that
filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit
by a bus.
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are
looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append
the filename to the url above and you will have it.
Enjoy,
Mike Stewart
MX20_InstallationManual.pdf
SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf
GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf
GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
143_InstallationManual.pdf (GPS 400 GNC 420 GNS 430 Series)
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf
CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
156_InstallationManual.pdf
GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf
140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF
GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
156_InstallationManual.pdf
GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf
163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf
140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf
140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
MX20_STCManual.pdf
MX20_UserGuide.pdf
MX20_MX20AirplaneFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GTX320ATransponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
168_InstallationManual.pdf
GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
SL70Transponder_TSOLetter.pdf
GMA340AudioPanel_PilotsGuide.pdf
SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
GPS92_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf
444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
461_OwnersManual.pdf
461_OwnersManual.pdf
NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf
NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf
SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf
SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
SL30Nav_Comm_JTSOLetter.pdf
SL30Nav_Comm_TSOLetter.pdf
SL40Comm_UserGuide.pdf
SL40Comm_STCKit.pdf
2001_2101C129Series_NMC_2001_2101_OperationManual.pdf
2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101ApproachChecklist.pdf
2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
360GPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
360GPS_STCKit.pdf
360GPS_UserGuide.pdf
360GPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
360MAP_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
360MAP_UserGuide.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_604PilotGuide.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReference.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_612-614P-614RQuickReference.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_612BOperationHandbook.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_618QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_618UserGuide.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_602OperationManual.pdf
600SeriesLORAN_602QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
900SeriesGPS_920UserGuide.pdf
900SeriesGPS_920QuickStart.pdf
900SeriesGPS_PrecedusUserGuide.pdf
900SeriesGPS_PrecedusQuickReference.pdf
900SeriesGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
GNC250GPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
156_InstallationManual.pdf
GNC250GPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS100AVD_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS100AVD_InstallationManual.pdf
GPS150_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS150_InstallationManual.pdf
GPS155TSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
GPS155TSO_InstallationManual.pdf
GPS155TSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
GPS55AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS89_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS90_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS95AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS95STD_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPS95XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
GPSCOM190_PilotsGuide.pdf
GTX320Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
168_InstallationManual.pdf
GX50IFRGPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GX50IFRGPS_GX50TrainingPackage.pdf
GX50IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
GX55IFRGPS_QuickReference.pdf
GX55IFRGPS_TrainingPackage.pdf
GX55IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
GX60IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
GX60IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
GX60IFRGPS_COMM_OverflyCancellationLetter.pdf
GX65IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
GX65IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReference.pdf
SL10AudioPanel_UserGuide.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50QuickReference.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_SL60QuickReference.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_TSOC129InstallationFAAApprovalProcedures.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_Memo:Cancelsover-flyrequirement.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_SystemConfigurationIndex.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50_60MasterDrawingList.pdf
SL50_60IFRGPS_SupplementaryAirplaneFlightManual.pdf
82_OwnersManual.pdf
82_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS152_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP162_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP172C_OwnersManual.pdf
73_OwnersManual.pdf
74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
41_OwnersManual.pdf
47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
41_OwnersManual.pdf
47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
GPSMAP3006C_3010C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP3006C_3010C_InstallationGuide.pdf
GPSMAP168Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP178CSounder_OwnersManual.pdf
83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
437_OwnersManual.pdf
437_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP175_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GBR21_OwnersManual.pdf
GDL30MarineWeatherSatelliteReceiver_OwnersManual.pdf
GMS10NetworkPortExpander_OwnersManual.pdf
47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GSD20_InstallationGuide.pdf
111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
VHF720_OwnersManual.pdf
VHF725_OwnersManual.pdf
VHF725_OwnersManual_EuroVersion_.pdf
DGPS53_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
GBR23_OwnersManual.PDF
GPS100STD_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS120_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS120XL_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS125Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS45_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS45XL_OwnersManual.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS65_OwnersManual.PDF
GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
GPSCOM170_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP130_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP135Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
73_OwnersManual.pdf
74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSMAP180_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP185Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP200_OwnersManual.pdf
130_OwnersManual.pdf
80_OwnersManual.pdf
130_OwnersManual.pdf
80_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP230_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP235Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
130_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexCamo_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexSummit_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
Forerunner101_OwnersManual.pdf
Forerunner201_OwnersManual.pdf
Foretrex101_OwnersManual.pdf
Foretrex201_OwnersManual.pdf
Geko101_OwnersManual.pdf
Geko201_OwnersManual.pdf
Geko301_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexLegend_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexLegendC_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexVista_OwnersManual.pdf
eTrexVista_Jumpmaster.pdf
eTrexVistaC_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
437_OwnersManual.pdf
437_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS38_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS40_OwnersManual.pdf
104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
NavTalkGSM_OwnersManual.pdf
NavTalkGSM_ATCommandInterfaceSupplement.pdf
Quest_OwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilot2610GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
439_OwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
39_OwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf
StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf
StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf
45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf
cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf
eMap_OwnersManual.pdf
GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf
iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf
iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf
45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf
MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf
66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf
GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf
IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf
JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf
LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf
PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf
usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin
does
not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is
easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals
on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have
the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments.
Thanks,
John Schroeder
Lancair Super ES 82%
--
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
Here's a direct link page I created out of the previous post....I just
used it to auto-download everything on a linux box so I'll have an
archive of them saved.
Tim
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/143_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/156_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/156_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_STCManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_MX20AirplaneFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX320ATransponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/168_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_TSOLetter.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS92_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/461_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/461_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_JTSOLetter.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL30Nav_Comm_TSOLetter.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL40Comm_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL40Comm_STCKit.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/2001_2101C129Series_NMC_2001_2101_OperationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101ApproachChecklist.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360GPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360GPS_STCKit.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360GPS_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360GPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360MAP_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/360MAP_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_604PilotGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_612-614P-614RQuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_612BOperationHandbook.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_618QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_618UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_602OperationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/600SeriesLORAN_602QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/900SeriesGPS_920UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/900SeriesGPS_920QuickStart.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/900SeriesGPS_PrecedusUserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/900SeriesGPS_PrecedusQuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/900SeriesGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250GPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/156_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC250GPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS100AVD_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS100AVD_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155TSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155TSO_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155TSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS55AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS89_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS90_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS95AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS95STD_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS95XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSCOM190_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX320Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/168_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX50IFRGPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX50IFRGPS_GX50TrainingPackage.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX50IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX55IFRGPS_QuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX55IFRGPS_TrainingPackage.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX55IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX60IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX60IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX60IFRGPS_COMM_OverflyCancellationLetter.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX65IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GX65IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL10AudioPanel_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50QuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_SL60QuickReference.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_TSOC129InstallationFAAApprovalProcedures.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_Memo:Cancelsover-flyrequirement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_SystemConfigurationIndex.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50_60MasterDrawingList.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL50_60IFRGPS_SupplementaryAirplaneFlightManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/82_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/82_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS152_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP162_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP172C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/73_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/41_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/41_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP3006C_3010C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP3006C_3010C_InstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP168Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP178CSounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/437_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/437_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP175_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GBR21_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GDL30MarineWeatherSatelliteReceiver_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMS10NetworkPortExpander_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GSD20_InstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/VHF720_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/VHF725_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/VHF725_OwnersManual_EuroVersion_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/DGPS53_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GBR23_OwnersManual.PDF
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS100STD_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS120XL_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS125Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS45_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS45XL_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS65_OwnersManual.PDF
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSCOM170_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP135Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/73_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP180_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP185Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP200_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/80_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/80_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP230_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP235Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexCamo_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexSummit_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Forerunner101_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Forerunner201_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Foretrex101_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Foretrex201_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Geko101_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Geko201_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Geko301_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexLegend_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexLegendC_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexVista_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexVista_Jumpmaster.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eTrexVistaC_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/437_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/437_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS38_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS40_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkGSM_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalkGSM_ATCommandInterfaceSupplement.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Quest_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilot2610GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/439_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/39_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/eMap_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
> John,
> You are gonna love this.
> I have cut and paste from a post I made off the rv-list message #124797.
> Every Garmin manual ever made can be had by folling the below message.
> Enjoy.
> Mike Stewart
> =======
> Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found
> by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the
> scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some
> file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill
> try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But
> for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its
> in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference
> Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds
> of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have
> wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals
> which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to
> get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in
> case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the
> appolo site down. I got a file from him like
> sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that
> filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit
> by a bus.
>
> http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are
> looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append
> the filename to the url above and you will have it.
> Enjoy,
> Mike Stewart
>
> MX20_InstallationManual.pdf
> SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
> SL40Comm_InstallationManual.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_InstallationManual.pdf
> GX60IFRGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
> SL70Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_InstallationManual.pdf
> GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
> GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
> 143_InstallationManual.pdf (GPS 400 GNC 420 GNS 430 Series)
>
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter1.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter2.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter3.pdf
> CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_CNX80UserNewsletter4.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GNC250XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 156_InstallationManual.pdf
> GNC250XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNC300XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GNC300XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNC300XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNC420_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GNC420_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNC420_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GNS430_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GNS430_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
> GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GNS530_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.PDF
> GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GNS530_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> 288_SampleTrainingSyllabus.pdf
> GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 156_InstallationManual.pdf
> GPS150XL_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS155XLTSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS155XLTSO_LBAApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GPS165TSODzusRail_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS400_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GPS400_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GPS500_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 140_DisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 141_FDEPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 142_TrafficDisplayPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GPS500_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS500_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> MX20_STCManual.pdf
> MX20_UserGuide.pdf
> MX20_MX20AirplaneFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GTX320ATransponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 168_InstallationManual.pdf
> GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 147_GarminDisplayInterfacesPilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
> SL70Transponder_TSOLetter.pdf
> GMA340AudioPanel_PilotsGuide.pdf
> SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
> SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
> GPS92_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSIIIPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP195_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP295_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP295_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 444_FlightBookQuickStartGuide.pdf
> 461_OwnersManual.pdf
> 461_OwnersManual.pdf
> NavTalkPilot_PilotsGuide.pdf
> NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_AircraftProvisions_.pdf
> NavTalkPilot_InstallationManual_CellularAntenna_.pdf
> SL30Nav_Comm_UserGuide.pdf
> SL30Nav_Comm_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> SL30Nav_Comm_JTSOLetter.pdf
> SL30Nav_Comm_TSOLetter.pdf
> SL40Comm_UserGuide.pdf
> SL40Comm_STCKit.pdf
> 2001_2101C129Series_NMC_2001_2101_OperationManual.pdf
> 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101ApproachChecklist.pdf
> 2001_2101C129Series_2001-2101QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 360GPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 360GPS_STCKit.pdf
> 360GPS_UserGuide.pdf
> 360GPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
> 360MAP_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 360MAP_UserGuide.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_604PilotGuide.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReference.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_604QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_612-614P-614RQuickReference.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_612BOperationHandbook.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_618QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_618UserGuide.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_602OperationManual.pdf
> 600SeriesLORAN_602QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
> 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_800QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820PilotsOperatingManual.pdf
> 800SeriesLORAN_GPS_820QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> 900SeriesGPS_920UserGuide.pdf
> 900SeriesGPS_920QuickStart.pdf
> 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusUserGuide.pdf
> 900SeriesGPS_PrecedusQuickReference.pdf
> 900SeriesGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
> GNC250GPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 156_InstallationManual.pdf
> GNC250GPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_InstallationManual.pdf
> GNC300TSOGPS_COMM_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS100AVD_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS100AVD_InstallationManual.pdf
> GPS150_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS150_InstallationManual.pdf
> GPS155TSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 163_PilotsGuideAddendum.pdf
> GPS155TSO_InstallationManual.pdf
> GPS155TSO_ApprovedFlightManualSupplement.pdf
> GPS55AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS89_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS90_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS95AVD_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS95STD_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPS95XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GPSCOM190_PilotsGuide.pdf
> GTX320Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> 168_InstallationManual.pdf
> GX50IFRGPS_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GX50IFRGPS_GX50TrainingPackage.pdf
> GX50IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
> GX55IFRGPS_QuickReference.pdf
> GX55IFRGPS_TrainingPackage.pdf
> GX55IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
> GX60IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
> GX60IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> GX60IFRGPS_COMM_OverflyCancellationLetter.pdf
> GX65IFRGPS_COMM_UserGuide.pdf
> GX65IFRGPS_COMM_QuickReference.pdf
> SL10AudioPanel_UserGuide.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50QuickReference.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_SL60QuickReference.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_UserGuide.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_WaypointManagerforWindowsVer4.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_TSOC129InstallationFAAApprovalProcedures.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_Memo:Cancelsover-flyrequirement.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_SystemConfigurationIndex.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_SL50_60MasterDrawingList.pdf
> SL50_60IFRGPS_SupplementaryAirplaneFlightManual.pdf
> 82_OwnersManual.pdf
> 82_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS152_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP162_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP172C_OwnersManual.pdf
> 73_OwnersManual.pdf
> 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
> 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
> 41_OwnersManual.pdf
> 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
> 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
> 41_OwnersManual.pdf
> 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
> 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
> 75_GPSMAP182_182C_232OwnersManual.pdf
> 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
> GPSMAP3006C_3010C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP3006C_3010C_InstallationGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP168Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP178CSounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
> 83_GPSMAP188_188C_238OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
> 437_OwnersManual.pdf
> 437_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
> GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP175_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GBR21_OwnersManual.pdf
> GDL30MarineWeatherSatelliteReceiver_OwnersManual.pdf
> GMS10NetworkPortExpander_OwnersManual.pdf
> 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
> 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GSD20_InstallationGuide.pdf
> 111_GSD20withGarminChartplotters.pdf
> Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> VHF720_OwnersManual.pdf
> VHF725_OwnersManual.pdf
> VHF725_OwnersManual_EuroVersion_.pdf
> DGPS53_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> GBR23_OwnersManual.PDF
> GPS100STD_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS120_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS120XL_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS125Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS45_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS45XL_OwnersManual.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS65_OwnersManual.PDF
> GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
> GPSCOM170_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP130_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP135Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> 73_OwnersManual.pdf
> 74_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSMAP180_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP185Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP200_OwnersManual.pdf
> 130_OwnersManual.pdf
> 80_OwnersManual.pdf
> 130_OwnersManual.pdf
> 80_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP230_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP235Sounder_OwnersManual.pdf
> 130_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexCamo_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexSummit_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
> Forerunner101_OwnersManual.pdf
> Forerunner201_OwnersManual.pdf
> Foretrex101_OwnersManual.pdf
> Foretrex201_OwnersManual.pdf
> Geko101_OwnersManual.pdf
> Geko201_OwnersManual.pdf
> Geko301_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12_OwnersManual.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-3.62_.pdf
> GPS12XL_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion4.0andabove_.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS72_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS72_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS76_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexLegend_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexLegendC_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexVenture_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexVista_OwnersManual.pdf
> eTrexVista_Jumpmaster.pdf
> eTrexVistaC_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP276C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76CS_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76S_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP76S_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> FishFinder120_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> FishFinder240_OwnersManual.pdf
> 437_OwnersManual.pdf
> 437_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder320C_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder80_Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> FishFinder100_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder100Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder160_OwnersManual.pdf
> FishFinder160Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> Fishfinder240Blue_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12CX_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS38_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS40_OwnersManual.pdf
> 104_GPS12,12XL,48,80Addendum.pdf
> GPS48_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS50_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS75_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSII_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion2.00-2.11_.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_OwnersManual_SoftwareVersion3.0andabove_.pdf
> GPSIIPlus_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
> GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
> GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
> NavTalkGSM_OwnersManual.pdf
> NavTalkGSM_ATCommandInterfaceSupplement.pdf
> Quest_OwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilot2610GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
> 439_OwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilot2650GPS_OwnersManual.pdf
> 39_OwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilotGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilotGPS_AtlanticUsersManual.pdf
> StreetPilotGPSColorMap_Ownersmanual.pdf
> StreetPilotGPSColorMap_AtlanticOwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilotIIIGPS_OwnersManual.pdf
> StreetPilotIIIGPS_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
> cfQue1620_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> cfQue1620_ApplicationsGuide.pdf
> eMap_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPS12MAP_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSIIIPlus_PlusFeaturesAddendum.pdf
> GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60C_OwnersManual.pdf
> GPSMAP60CS_OwnersManual.pdf
> iQue3200_OperatingInstructions.pdf
> iQue3200_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
> iQue3600_OperatingInstructions.pdf
> iQue3600_QueApplicationsGuide.pdf
> Rino110_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino110_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino120_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino120_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> Rino130_OwnersManual.pdf
> Rino130_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPSIII_OwnersManual.pdf
> NavTalk_OwnersManual.pdf
> 45_USBDataCardProgrammer.pdf
> MapSource_BlueChartUsersGuide.pdf
> MapSource_MapSourceUsersGuide.pdf
> 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
> 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
> 68_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> 47_GPSMAP2006_2010_GPS17NInstallationGuide.pdf
> 66_GPS16_17NSeriesTechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS17N_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS18_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS35LPSeries_GPS35USBQuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS35LPSeries_GPS35PCQuickStartGuide.pdf
> GPS36TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS15_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
> 237_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf
> GPS25LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPS31TracPak_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
> GPSGuideforBeginners_Manual.pdf
> IntroductiontoGeocaching_Manual.pdf
> JeppesenUpdateInstructions_Manual.pdf
> LoranTDPositionHandbook_Manual.pdf
> PCX5_OwnersManual.pdf
> usingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Schroeder
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals
>
>
>
> My trusty old URL for downloading the installation manuals for Garmin
> does
> not work any more. Can anyone provide the new one - if any :-((. It is
> easy to get the pilot's manual but I can't find the installation manuals
>
> on their website. We are starting to wire the airplane and need to have
>
> the pinouts for the various feeds to other equipment and instruments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Schroeder
> Lancair Super ES 82%
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Tim and all you other good folks who responded -
Many thanks for the huge response and the help. It works like a charm.
Hopefully, Garmin won't plug this loophole as well. Ahhhhh, the whiff of
monopoly!! :-))
Cheers,
John
--
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: open barrel crimper for small wiresclamav-milter |
version 0.80con juliet.albedo.net
I'm not sure what your issue is here but I bought two of them this weekend. One
from Pep Boys for an outrageous $24 then found a better quality looking one
from Radio Shack for about $7. I made some connections, gave it the ol' SWAG
pull test and they all didn't budge at all so no soldering for me. I bought the
crimpable pins and housing also from Radio Shack. They sell various wire sized,
reasonably priced complete set blister packs of .090.
Lucky
In a message dated 10/3/2004 9:20:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ken
writes:
>
>Would anyone know of a small open barrel crimper (butt cheek crimper). I
>have done a fair bit of looking and the best I have come up with is one
>for 16awg (1.5 metric) wire with a width inside the jaws of 0.11 inches.
>From the photos I suspect that is about the same as the one from B & C.
>
> I need a unit for 18 to 22 awg wire. After crimping, these finished
>connections are 0.065 inches wide, 0.80 inches wide, and 0.090 inches
>wide. I can get by with something that does 0.090 wide finished crimps
>but anything larger and the pins won't fit into the connectors. This is
>for the EFI connections on my auto engine conversion so I'll break out
>the soldering iron and start splicing rather than spend huge dollars.
>But it would certainly be worth a moderate expenditure for something
>that would do the job.
>
>thank you
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | echristley(at)nc.rr.com |
Christley
>
> I walked out the store, exactly $21 lighter, and
took my new prize
> straight home and began the deconstructive
surgery. The hat switch
> lifted off in a nice, self-contained package.
>
> http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Joystick.jpg
>
Oops. I put the wrong URL on that one. Try:
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/HatSwitch.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net> |
"RV7list" ,
Subject: | wiring fuel level sender |
i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level
sender in the second bay.
i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with
bushing.
wiring with AWG22.
could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left
wing and fuselage).
or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any
connector or splicing ?
thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english.
Olivier LC
France
ICQ#: 82067330
sanglier(at)laposte.net
http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | The power of questions and networking. |
>
>
>Well hopefully not John, but like some of the other posts, I have the
>entire directory archived for our future benefit.
>
>Ahhhh the power of technology!
Ahhhh . . . the power of networking!
>Oh and BTW, I received my HT-322 rotary coax stripper and I am very
>pissed off. I pulled it out of the package, spun it around a piece of
>coax, and in about 3 seconds I had a perfectly stripped 3 way coax. How
>in the heck did I ever get by with out this little device. I stripped 4
>times, made a couple tweaks to the blades, and now I am ready to tackle
>all those connectors I got coming. Thanks Bob for this incredible find
>and to the list that nudged me to buy one.
These things have been around for over 30 years that I can think
of . . . before that, folks "in the business" made their own
with the help of some guy down in the machine shop that wasn't
adverse to working "a government job". A couple of hunks of phenolic,
some Xacto knife blades and perhaps several hours at the hands
of a craftsman would produce what we called "shop aids". We
could justify two hours of that machinist's time to save $time$
in assembly and reduce $time$ lost in scrap materials/labor.
A neat fallout is increased worker satisfaction and pride
of accomplishment for being able to do a better job in less
time and less dependence on craftsmanship for a good outcome.
I can still see grandad's grin as he watched his carpenters
cut stacks of studs in minutes with the newly acquired Skill-Saw
and a "shop aid" fabricated from some lumber, a hinge,
hunk of angle iron and a screen door spring. Thanks to grandpa
for planting the seeds of the Skunk Works mentality into the
head of a 6 year old grandson. He never knew what a gift
he gave.
I have several such tools . . .some are pretty old (and the
blades are still fine after perhaps 50-100 installations).
I don't carry one in my minimalist toolbox because it takes
up more room than my multitasking Xacto knife with #11
blade in it. If I need to install a connector in the wild,
I can still do it the "hard way" but if I have a dozen
connectors to install on the bench, the strippers come
out.
I didn't think to explore this subject and share the
outcome until someone asked. Others could have (and perhaps
did) do some exploring on their own and had some "discoveries"
that we've not heard about yet. But it's a sure bet that
we all received benefit from somebody's willingness
to throw the question out. I found (stumbled onto)
a good tool, others are coming forward with equal-to-or-
better deals yet.
This ladies and gentlemen is what makes the List work.
The most important component of any problem solving
activity is not the answers but THE QUESTIONS. Was
it ever asked? Were all the questions asked? I've observed
dozens of problem solving activities wherein groups of
people had some discussions, made some decisions,
changed some drawings, expended tens if not hundreds
of thousands of dollars, and declared victory. Some time
later, the problem was found to be only partly resolved
and/or new problems came up as unintended consequences.
Insufficient questions were asked (and subsequently
answered) in their deliberations.
So, after all these years of running down the road
severely deprived of good coax stripping tools, someone
asked the question. One guy went off in search of
an answer. Now others are refining, expanding and
enhancing that answer with their own. The Skunk Works
approach to problem solving.
I've been watching the thread on leds for annunciators.
When the thread first started there were things I thought
of that could have been contributed to the conversation
but other folks tossed those ideas in later down the
thread. I'm not going to get into that thread but will
watch it. I anticipate and increasing degree of satisfaction
and pride of association with folks willing and able to
conduct this exercise; combing the wild for simple-ideas
that have good prospects for application in new products.
For me at least, a teacher's ultimate career goal
is to face his students and say, "gee folks, I have given
you all I have. YOU are now the teachers and have
things to share with me." Of course we know that in
the normal course of human communication. This happens
in microcosm all the time. We are all (or should be)
students and teachers at all times.
Now, I gave away my newest stripping tool yesterday
as a door prize at the seminar in St. Louis. Gotta go
ask Google where to get a better one. Thank you Mike!
> A google search on the part
>number will get you prices better than e-bay. Next trick is to find a
>blade kit cause that braid is gonna kill those blades in short order.
I think you'll find that unless you're going into the coax
assembly business, the blades are going to last for a lifetime
of service in your own Skunk Works.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: wiring fuel level sender |
Olivier,
I have a connector between my fuselage and wings for all my electrical
wiring. landing/taxi Lights, heated Pitot tube, nav lights, Nav antenna,
etc. In case I ever had to take a wing off. But, finding out how much
trouble it was to put all those bolts and nuts to hold the wing spar to the
bulkhead, I doubt I will ever have a wing off (voluntarily).{:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net>
;
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender
>
> i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level
> sender in the second bay.
> i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with
> bushing.
> wiring with AWG22.
> could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left
> wing and fuselage).
> or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any
> connector or splicing ?
>
> thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english.
>
> Olivier LC
> France
> ICQ#: 82067330
> sanglier(at)laposte.net
> http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
Subject: | Lead acid batteries: Vairiations on a theme. |
Just so I understand this.
I recently had a new Concorde RG35A battery delivered. TNT smashed the
plastic case in transit so now I have another one. It works well.
My question is about the first one. Certainly nothing leaked out despite
being able to see through the cracks to the inside, and it has been doing
good duty starting my lawn mower. (The mower battery is a bit tired.) Will
moisture evaporate out? Is this acidic?
It is quite useful having a 12V source around, but am I better to get it out
of my workshop?
Thanks, Steve.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Lead acid batteries: Vairiations on a theme. |
On Oct 4, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Steve Sampson wrote:
> My question is about the first one. Certainly nothing leaked out
> despite
> being able to see through the cracks to the inside, and it has been
> doing
> good duty starting my lawn mower. (The mower battery is a bit tired.)
> Will
> moisture evaporate out? Is this acidic?
>
> It is quite useful having a 12V source around, but am I better to get
> it out
> of my workshop?
It works. Seal up the cracks with something, put it in a vented
battery box, and use it for light duty. Not being completely sealed it
will eventually dry out but in the mean time it is usable.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Subject: | 24 Volt batteries |
Every so often the discussion comes up about 12 volt vs. 24 volt systems.
What battery do those who choose 24 volts use? What does it weigh, and how
does it compare the new lightweight batteries like the PC680? Do they hook
2 of them together for 24 volts?
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net> |
Subject: | wiring fuel level sender |
thank's for answer.
i use AWG 20, but i think that AWG22 is enough for fuel senders ? i don't
find anything about this problem.
i own the aeroelectic b nuckolls book and CD and don't find anything about
wire size for fuel gauge (never in van's manual).
Olivier
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part de Ed
Anderson
Envoy : dimanche 3 octobre 2004 19:05
: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender
Olivier,
I have a connector between my fuselage and wings for all my electrical
wiring. landing/taxi Lights, heated Pitot tube, nav lights, Nav antenna,
etc. In case I ever had to take a wing off. But, finding out how much
trouble it was to put all those bolts and nuts to hold the wing spar to the
bulkhead, I doubt I will ever have a wing off (voluntarily).{:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net>
;
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring fuel level sender
>
> i have flop tube in the first fuel tank bay and put the fuel level
> sender in the second bay.
> i plan wiring through a existing little hole in the main spar with
> bushing.
> wiring with AWG22.
> could i have a connector at the wing root ? (connector between left
> wing and fuselage).
> or must this fuel sender wire to go from sender to gauge without any
> connector or splicing ?
>
> thank's for help, and sorry for my bad english.
>
> Olivier LC
> France
> ICQ#: 82067330
> sanglier(at)laposte.net
> http://sangliervolant.chez.tiscali.fr Van's RV-8 n81939 wings
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CFrank(at)edony.com |
Subject: | RE: Unstable 20A generator system |
Update:
This past Saturday, I was going to try swapping out the voltage regulator to
rule the old one out. I disconnected the leads, started working on the
ground wire.
I pulled slightly on the wire, and you know what? The wire was improperly
swaged to the eyelet that grounds it to the airframe... actually, it was not
even swaged, since the wires were not crushed. The bare wires were just
making touching contact with the inside of the eyelet, creating an
intermittent connection.
I re-attached the battery, armature, and field wires, and started her up.
Problem solved! No more ammeter needle bounce!
Lesson learned: Continuity testing is not enough. A "tug test" would have
revealed the problem immediately. Live and learn, I guess.
Thanks to all for all the excellent advice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:b.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Unstable 20A generator system
>
>Bob,
>
>Thank you very much for your response.
>
>Can I substitute a 35 amp regulator for a 20 amp regulator? I do have a
>spare 14V regulator on hand, but it is rated for 35 amps, not matching my
20
>amp generator output. I suppose that this regulator will do the job, and
>will just regulate for maximum generator output, but I have been reluctant
>to try this out of fear of damaging something.
>
>Either way, whether going with an alternator system or replacing the
voltage
>regulator, I will still need field approval. We'll see if Santa Claus has
>some spare change left over after Xmas for the B&C alternator you
recommend.
>
>I have joined the list, and already am finding it worthwhile.
Substitute the 35A regulator for a quick test to see if
the system settles down. The 35A current limit is too large
to run . . . if your 20A generator is good, the too-large
current limit setting in the regulator will not protect
the generator. However, the test would be useful to see
if a different regulator makes the system behave better.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: 24 Volt batteries |
On Oct 4, 2004, at 1:58 PM, Terry Watson wrote:
>
>
> Every so often the discussion comes up about 12 volt vs. 24 volt
> systems.
> What battery do those who choose 24 volts use? What does it weigh,
> and how
> does it compare the new lightweight batteries like the PC680? Do they
> hook
> 2 of them together for 24 volts?
Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery equalizer
to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the pair
without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to me.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | wiring fuel level sender |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hello Olivier,
Mr Nuckolls strives to give the reader the analytical tools to pick the
correct wire based on a component's electrical demands. He sometimes
provides illustrative examples of the analysis used to size wire. These
examples include calculations using real world numbers. Trying to
provide a comprehensive list of all possible electrical devices (and their
associated wiring) that could be installed in an airplane wouldn't be
practical.
Most sensors are designed to use a minimum amount of power and
cause the least disruption of the measured system. As such, their power
demands are typically low. Because of this, in most cases, the bottom limit
on wire size for connections to sensors is a mechanical one. Really small
wires are not as robust as slightly thicker ones, and are more difficult to
make connections using cheap tools. Reference recent discussion about
certain servo motor wire selection.
For gas guages, AWG22 is plenty, but if you had AWG20 on hand, that works
too.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
>
>
> thank's for answer.
> i use AWG 20, but i think that AWG22 is enough for fuel senders ? i
> don't find anything about this problem.
> i own the aeroelectic b nuckolls book and CD and don't find anything
> about wire size for fuel gauge (never in van's manual).
>
> Olivier
>
snip
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Subject: | 24 Volt batteries |
Thanks for the answer, Brian. I wonder if there is a way of deriving most
of the benefits of either a 12 or 24 volt system from such a combination.
This is just curiosity to me at this point. I have already added a second
battery to power my Blue Mountain EFIS one while the first one cranks the
starter. I think I have everything worked out so almost any part of the
system can run off one or both batteries, but not off either battery
individually. For example, the EFIS/one can run off battery #2 or 1 & 2,
but not #1 alone; and the starter can be cranked by #1 or #1 and #2, but not
#2 alone.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 wiring & panel
Seattle
Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery equalizer
to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the pair
without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 24 Volt batteries |
From: | earl_schroeder(at)juno.com |
OK, maybe I should already know but please describe "batteries in series
with a battery equalizer" that Brian mentioned. Thanks, Earl
>
>
>
> Two small 12V gell or AGM batteries in series with a battery
> equalizer
> to, a) ensure equal change and, b) allow one to draw 12V from the
> pair
> without damaging either battery, seems to make the most sense to
> me.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Coax Strippers |
>
>
>You folks can throw rocks at me for not speaking up sooner. I haven't used
>a knife on coax in 15 years - I thought those nifty little strippers were
>common. Of course, I didn't know that y'all didn't know.
How could you know . . . until someone asks the question?
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lamar Overvoltage Relay |
>
>
>Help!
>
>I've got a Lamar B-00289-2 overvoltage relay I'd like to try and use in my
>aircraft. It has two connections on it: Bat and Load. Looking at Bob's
>schematics, the crowbar hooks up to one side of the 5 amp field breaker and
>to ground. In other words, this Lamar doodad may be a different approach
>altogether. Anybody know how and where it gets connected? The Lamar web site
>is all but useless for information.
Yes, it's a true RELAY . . . related to the crowbar ov module only
in intended function. It goes in series with the power from your
alt field circuit breaker (or fuse in this case . . . the ov relay
doesn't force the fuse open). LOAD goes toward the regulator. BAT
goes to the breaker or fuse through the alternator control side of
the DC power master switch.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuse block connections |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse block connections
>
>
>
> > >The Fast-on PIDG terminals are 10X-100X higher force. In fact they
> > >require mechanical assisted grip to separate.
> >
> > Force is not the same as pressure. It's pressure that sets electrical
> > integrity of the connection. There are millions of vehicles using
> > similar if not identical connections.
>
>I agree, but in this case extraction force directly relates to pressure as
>the contact area and type are very similar.
>
>And yes I did try pulling the fuse out of my wife's import auto. The force
>and contact marks on the fuse was much higher. Also the contacts were solid
>and not loose as in the Buss products (I have several models all with the
>same very low forces and loose contacts.) Thus based on a tiny sample the
>aftermarket BUSS fuse holders are NOT nearly as good as the production auto
>fuse holders.
>
>I needed the fuse extractor on the auto vs. simple fingers on the BUSS
>product. The marks on the auto fuse indicate much higher contact force
>similar to the highly recommended fast-on lugs.
>
>If we were talking about fast-on terminals, I suspect you would judge the
>(fuse holder) contact force unacceptable.
Fast-ons have a 10x margin of holding force. Most of the fuse
holders are light . . . but the guy at Bussmann assured me that
adequate pressures were there. Pressure is related to force but
we need a scale factor too.
Consider whacking off a whisker with a blade . . . sharp edge
against a cylinder at right angles. Initial area of contact, zero.
Initial force, very light. Pressure . . . tons per square inch and
the whisker fails . . . hopefully at the right height the first time
so you don't have to whack it again.
The risk is in loosing the sharp edges he alludes to in the
trifurcated clip that grabs the fuse. Insertion/removal wear
has to be significant . . . corrosion dulling of the edge is
also a concern.
>I will not consider nor recommend fuse holders of the types I have from
>BUSS.
>
>A system is only as good as its weakest link and I feel the BUSS fuse
>holders commonly available, not ready for aircraft use. The fuse holder on
>the import was fine in my judgment, just not as handy in size.
>
>Making a fuse holder from female fast-on's and pcb material would provide
>the required gas tight contact.
Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips
that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't
figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and
keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is
to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel.
I'll populate the fixture with sockets and then work them onto the board.
Just need to wait until my budget for tooling is a bit more flush. I'm not
going to try to cut that one out on the ol' Bridgeport!
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Garmin & Garmin AT Installation Manuals |
From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
I downloaded the CNX80 rev F installation manual. Compared to Rev C that
was published by UPS, the quality of Rev F is appalling! Many of the
drawings and diagrams are unreadable. Looks like someone zeroxed it
several times using an old 300 dpi copier and then converted it to a .pdf
file. I cannot imagine asking their "licensed installers" to rely on this
document to install it according to the FAR's. Looks like they have put
these on line for us to make us feel good.
Best,
John
>
> Well hopefully not John, but like some of the other posts, I have the
> entire directory archived for our future benefit.
>
> Ahhhh the power of technology!
>
> Many thanks for the huge response and the help. It works like a charm.
> Hopefully, Garmin won't plug this loophole as well. Ahhhhh, the whiff of
> monopoly!! :-))
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "glaesers" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
Subject: | Cheap terminal crimper |
I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497
"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website.
I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found
the second link but the same description.
Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good
crimps on PIDG terminals??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281
&rd=1
also
http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod
uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap terminal crimper |
clamav-milter version 0.80c
on juliet.albedo.net
Dennis
It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG
terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I
often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a
separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and
insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it.
Ken
glaesers wrote:
>
>I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497
>"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website.
>I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found
>the second link but the same description.
>
>Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good
>crimps on PIDG terminals??
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281
>&rd=1
>also
>http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod
>uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251
>
>Thanks,
> Dennis Glaeser
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap terminal crimper |
>
>Dennis
>It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG
>terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I
>often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a
>separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and
>insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it.
>Ken
>
>glaesers wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497
> >"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website.
> >I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found
> >the second link but the same description.
> >
> >Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good
> >crimps on PIDG terminals??
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281
> >&rd=1
> >also
> >http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod
> >uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251
> >
> >Thanks,
> > Dennis Glaeser
Yes, that is the same tool. I believe there are only a few
folks making this tool. I've seen it in the wild with a variety
of colored handles but with identical mold and machine marks.
I've seen it priced anywhere from $17 or so up to $125 but
they're all made in Taiwan, if not by the same company then
twin brother companies.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | D-sub connectors current rating |
All,
Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
pin I guess.
Many thanks
Kingsley Hurst
Europa 281 in Oz.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: 24 Volt batteries |
On Oct 4, 2004, at 5:37 PM, earl_schroeder(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> OK, maybe I should already know but please describe "batteries in
> series
> with a battery equalizer" that Brian mentioned. Thanks, Earl
I find that many people who go for a 24V/28V electrical system also
want 12V/14V to run other loads. I have also seen people make the
mistake of just stealing the 12V from the center tap between the two
batteries. This is bad because it causes the upper battery to
overcharge and the lower battery to be perpetually undercharged.
An equalizer is a special 24V-to-12V converter that sits across both
batteries connecting to ground, the center tap between the batteries
and to the 24V point (positive terminal of the upper battery). Like
this:
,------+---------> 24V
| |
| B2
| |
E------+---------> 12V
| |
| B1
| |
`------+---------> Gnd
The voltage at the 12V point is always exactly 1/2 the voltage at the
24V point. This ensures that the batteries maintain equal charge even
if you draw power from the 12V tap.
The advantage to this approach over the more conventional 24V-to-12V
converter running from the 24V buss is that, if the equalizer fails the
batteries will still provide approximately 12V to the 12V loads thus
allowing you to complete your flight without losing any of your
equipment. If you use a converter and it fails you lose all your 12V
loads.
SurePower makes both battery equalizers and converters with capacities
from 10A to 150A. For most aircraft I would suspect a 10A unit would
probably suffice.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Subject: | Re: Cheap terminal crimper |
Thanks Ken and Bob! I just bought one. My previous email has the links for
anyone else who is in the market.
Dennis
---
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Dennis
It certainly looks like the imported one that I am using on PIDG
terminals and I am delighted with it for the electrical connection but I
often touch up the insulation side a bit (when crimping tefzel) with a
separate crimper that has a round die. Both sides (electrical and
insulation) are the same on that tool but I still like it.
Ken
---
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Yes, that is the same tool. I believe there are only a few
folks making this tool. I've seen it in the wild with a variety
of colored handles but with identical mold and machine marks.
I've seen it priced anywhere from $17 or so up to $125 but
they're all made in Taiwan, if not by the same company then
twin brother companies.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-sub connectors current rating
All,
Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
pin I guess.
Many thanks
Kingsley Hurst
Europa 281 in Oz.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stanley Mann" <mesllc(at)hotmail.com> |
"Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips
that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't
figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and
keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is
to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel"
Bob,
In the past I've used fairly simple arbor press type tooling to insert PCB type
terminals. The key is to design the PCB with the proper amount of interference
fit to keep the terminal straight during soldering and to design the tooling
to make sure the board is flat, supported well below the terminal, and the terminal
is inserted perpendicular. This requires much less tooling sophistication
(work) as you only tool one pocket to hold the terminal and support rails to
keep the board flat. An anvil to put a minimal swage on the legs as they come
through the PCB will guarantee that they don't come back out. This duplicates
the action of the automatic insertion machines supplied by companies like Autosplice
just manually positioned and actuated. A properly sized, plated through
hole in the PCB does a good job of keeping things aligned and vertical and
provide good vibration fatique resistance. Similar tooling would insert the male
faston tabs for outgoing connections.
It would seem that one could make a power distribution board that incorporated
some other items like undervoltage sensing or OV protection, keep-warm for lights,
wig-wag, etc. The simplicity factor is one unit with fewer connections, the
down side would be lack of flexibility. Ideas?
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors current rating |
>
>
>All,
>
>Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
>soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
>pin I guess.
>
>Many thanks
>
>Kingsley Hurst
>Europa 281 in Oz.
It depends on the reliability level you're looking for. 5A for any
one pin is the rating . . . if you want to run lots of pins at "power"
levels, I'll suggest you de-rate the pins a bit and parallel some pins.
I did a design for a solid state power distribution controller for a
super sonic target. We had conductors entering and leaving the controller
that carried 20A continuous. We designed d-sub i/o connectors into the
system and then wired it as illustrated in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif
The long strands of 22AWG add just enough resistance to make pins
reliably share the loads. In the case I cited above, 7 pins were
used to carry 20A with high degree of reliability. If you need to
run more than 5A on one wire, is it continuous or intermittent?
If you used the technique cited, you can run a LOT of current through
a d-sub connector. My early proof of concept fixture paralleled 12/13
pins together in a single 25-pin d-sub. We tested it at elevated
temperatures carrying 40 Amps through each of two conductors for a
total of 80A, intermittent loads of twice that amount would not have
been a big concern.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> everything |
Subject: | RE: Unstable generator - Putting one's hands/eyes on |
everything
everything
> >
> >This past Saturday, I was going to try swapping out the voltage regulator to
> >rule the old one out. I disconnected the leads, started working on the
> >ground wire.
> >
> >I pulled slightly on the wire, and you know what? The wire was improperly
> >swaged to the eyelet that grounds it to the airframe... actually, it was not
> >even swaged, since the wires were not crushed. The bare wires were just
> >making touching contact with the inside of the eyelet, creating an
> >intermittent connection.
Great! Pleased that you've solved the problem.
> . . . . . One of my A/P instructors would get his hands on
>everything. Even things directly in front of him that looked secure
>he'd give a tug. This method of getting your hands on everything is
>paramount to a good inspection and may prevent some FBO from telling
>you "it was a bad $diode$".
Yup. This is one of the reasons why I've suggested that owners
of OBAM aircraft "retie" their bundles under the cowl every annual
or so. Don't worry about $high$ tie-wraps. Use any tie-wrap you like
but snip them off during the annual (just a few at a time) and look
things over for chaffing, cracked insulation, poor bundle routing,
etc. The whole operation shouldn't take 15-30 minutes to do under
the cowl and it gives you a good look-see on the ship's most
vulnerable wires, tubes and hoses.
Bob . . .
P.S. Been looking into this ageing aircraft wiring thing. So far,
95% of the issues have more to do with poor cleanliness, terrible
preventative maintenance and lack of professional attention to detail
by mechanics (no doubt due to corporate policy). There ARE a few
issues with insulation types but Tefzel is at the bottom of the totem
pole for probability of being a trouble maker.
Incidentally, in the first 30 documents I've reviewed, I haven't
seen Teflon mentioned once. A builder at the St. Louis seminar
last weekend recalled Teflon airframe wiring on an old F-4. He
had to etch the insulation on the wire before installing a connector
to improve bonding of the connector sealing compound to the wire's
insulation. I'd forgotten that Teflon is so damned hard to glue,
the hi-rel military programs that use potted connectors would have
hated the stuff.
Watch this space . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Subject: | 9 v power supply |
Guys,
I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit. I'd like to
put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep changing batteries. Headsets
Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39, and claims you need really stable power
input for the ANR to work well.
Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down to 9v (I know
it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or does it need to be
something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap do-it-yourself plans out there
for such a power supply?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta finish wiring...
Get your name as your email address.
Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more
Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can someone
advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each of these
since I have to wire the jackplugs up.
Thanks, Steve.
RV9a
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Re: 9 v power supply |
I did this in my current plane. Added 9V stable supplies for
4 jacks. I used a component similar to theirs, only larger.
It's an isolation system for the power and provides short-circuit
protection as well. In the end, for me to track down these
components one-by-one, I paid nearly what those separate jacks
cost. If I did it again I'd buy theirs. One reason is that they
use a very nice threaded-on power plug so it doesn't unplug on
you. I was able to find them, but it wasn't easy. Sure, you
can hack something together, and I'm sure a zener or a 3-pin
regulator would work, but it isn't really a stable or complete
solution. I'd say just suck it up and buy their jacks.
Besides that, you're flying a -8, right?? It's only about
$80, and it makes it real easy to wire.
BTW: I absolutely loved the ANR upgrade....so much so that
I went out and bought the kids headsets and upgraded them,
and did the wife's too. After using them, I can't see
being without, and they're every bit as good as my
father's lightspeeds, from what I can tell.
Tim
czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Guys,
>
> I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit.
> I'd like to put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep
> changing batteries. Headsets Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39,
> and claims you need really stable power input for the ANR to work
> well.
>
> Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down
> to 9v (I know it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or
> does it need to be something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap
> do-it-yourself plans out there for such a power supply?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta
> finish wiring...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Mice and Phones |
Steve Sampson wrote:
>
>The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can someone
>advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each of these
>since I have to wire the jackplugs up.
>
>Thanks, Steve.
>
>RV9a
>
The mic plug (smaller diameter) is:
tip- push to talk
ring- mic audio
shield (closest to your hand)- ground or return for both audio & PTT
If you have stereo headphones, the shield (closest to your hand) is
ground return, & I can't remember which is left & right for tip & ring
but you can tell for yourself with a 1.5V flashlight battery & a couple
of jumper wires. Tie one end of the battery to the shield & touch the
other end to the tip of the headphone connector. The earcup that clicks
is tied to the tip & the other is tied to the ring.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mice and Phones |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Do a Google search on "aircraft headset wiring" and what do you
know, but the first hit is where Bob published the microphone side...
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html
A similar search will show the headphone side....
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
>
>
> The plugs on the end of my headsets have three segments to them. Can
> someone advise me what the standard is for the signal and return on each
> of these since I have to wire the jackplugs up.
>
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> RV9a
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>"Very true. Keystone and others make solder-tailed fast-on like clips
> that mate with the ATC fuse tabs. I have a big bag of them here. I haven't
> figured out how I'm going to fixture a bunch of these on an assembly and
> keep them really straight for soldering. At the moment, the plan is
> to cut a forest-of-fuse-tabs into a chunk of soft but hardenable steel"
>
>Bob,
>In the past I've used fairly simple arbor press type tooling to insert PCB
>type terminals. The key is to design the PCB with the proper amount of
>interference fit to keep the terminal straight during soldering and to
>design the tooling to make sure the board is flat, supported well below
>the terminal, and the terminal is inserted perpendicular. This requires
>much less tooling sophistication (work) as you only tool one pocket to
>hold the terminal and support rails to keep the board flat. An anvil to
>put a minimal swage on the legs as they come through the PCB will
>guarantee that they don't come back out. This duplicates the action of the
>automatic insertion machines supplied by companies like Autosplice just
>manually positioned and actuated. A properly sized, plated through hole in
>the PCB does a good job of keeping things aligned and vertical and provide
>good vibration fatique resistance. Similar tooling would insert the male
>faston tabs for outgoing connections.
I've made some boards doing just that. These particular pins don't stay
real straight unless fully seated and I need to shim the part up about
.030" for fully seated so that soldering operations later don't wick up
into the clip.
>It would seem that one could make a power distribution board that
>incorporated some other items like undervoltage sensing or OV protection,
>keep-warm for lights, wig-wag, etc. The simplicity factor is one unit with
>fewer connections, the down side would be lack of flexibility. Ideas?
Yes, that's what I've been toying with. It's pretty low on the
totem pole of things to do but not so far down that I don't
ponder the options. I'm in some discussions with a potential
partner for some future products. We think we could produce a
kit that would put 90% of the wiring in an RV in 3 hours or less.
Don't anybody hold up their projects based on this statement.
This will take a highly evolved kit with considerable development,
tooling and investment.
Yeah, there's some loss of flexibility but 95% of the OBAM
aircraft community doesn't care. Folks who hang out on the list
discussion DIFFERENT ways to do things are a small part of the
total. Most folks would be really happy with some kind of
cookie-cutter approach to getting their airplane wired.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Starter vs Master contactor |
>
>
>Bob, Ken,
>
>Thanks for the clarification. Got to my hangar, schematic in hand and
>noticed that that's what I had to do. I was able to get a reading across the
>small connector and the mount (ground) but not across the connector and
>either of the large connectors on the three terminal variety. Even stranger,
>I couldn't get any reading across my four terminal one which is brand new.
>On the last one, I was able to get about 14 ohms, so at least that one is
>ID'd. Gonna play with it some more tomorrow. I can't believe that two out of
>three are toast!
Keep in mind all the possible combinations of coil wiring. Not all
4-terminal
contactors use two terminals for coils. Some contactors will connect coils
internally to one of the main studs, others will connect to the mounting
base.
You have to poke around a bit to see which combination is used.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: PTC Overload Protectors |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Haven't you also suggested that it isn't always a good idea to turn
>something back on - if a fuse/breaker blows during flight?
I've suggested, as have many others, that it's not always a good
thing to fiddle with breakers or mis-behaving accessories in flight.
The self re-setting PTC encourages or even forces fiddling activity
because of the indefinite nature of PTC operation. When the
accessory quits, you're likely to mess around with it not knowing
that it's going off line due to over-load of the PTC. A breaker
or fuse makes this condition known the first time and at least
offers you the opportunity to leave it alone until on the ground.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> penetrations |
Subject: | Re: stainless towel bar firewall |
penetrations
penetrations
> penetrations
>
>
> > ... I'm always on
> > the lookout for other quick-n-dirty but practical substitutes for
> > "aircraft quality" parts.
>
>This is good - do you generally post these somewhere on the
>net? I was looking for the "grab bar" solution for quite
>some time, and had Rob not pointed it out, I would have
>probably never found it!
A Matronics archive search should have unearthed the
threads about this.
I've been toying with a third publication . . . an occasional
regurgitation of Tech Tips gleaned from thousands of e-mail
threads over the years . . . a sort of frequency asked questions
thing as a monthly posting to the website. Each would have
a table of contents. They would be .pdf documents so the search
engines would catalog them as well.
The whole editing task should take more than two, maybe
three hundred hours . . . but I am saving the input data
for that series of rainy days!
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: barrier strip? |
>
>
>I am trying to figure out what to use physically to distribute the +12
>power for the main bus and the essential bus. I spotted some Molex
>barrier strips (well, Beau, actually) that have optional shorting clips
>you can insert to connect adjacent screw terminals together. I'm
>thinking of attaching +12v supply in a few places to such a strip with
>the shorting clips all across. Seems like one barrier strip for each
>bus ought to do it.
>
>Is this acceptable? Is there a better way to do this?
You betcha. I haven't used a terminal strip in a new
design in decades. Fuse blocks are my personal favorite but
breakers and bus bars work too. Take a peek behind the circuit
breaker panel of any certified ship. Also look at
http://bandc.biz/Fuseholder.html
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | 9 v power supply |
From: | "Nuffer, Chuck" <CNuffer(at)it21.com> |
Hey Mark......... Been sporting a set of Headsets inc ANR's for about 10
years. Great support, great guys.
I have the power jacks in my plane..... Yeah, I know $40 a pop, but they
work and no noise. Don't exactly know what is on the small board but
it's definitely more than a single diode.
Good luck......
Regards,
Chuck Nuffer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
czechsix(at)juno.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 9 v power supply
-->
Guys,
I'm looking at upgrading to ANR using the Headsets Inc upgrade kit. I'd
like to put 9v power jack in my RV so I don't need to keep changing
batteries. Headsets Inc sells a 9 v power supply for $39, and claims
you need really stable power input for the ANR to work well.
Is this true? Could you just use a zener diode to drop the 12V down to
9v (I know it would fluctuate some depending on bus voltage)? Or does
it need to be something fancier, and if so, are there any cheap
do-it-yourself plans out there for such a power supply?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D paint is DONE, now gotta finish wiring...
Get your name as your email address.
Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month
- visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Horsten" <airplanes(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Wiring Harnesses |
I decided not to try and tackle the wiring harnesses myself for my Zenair
CH-300, except for the power stuff. Instead I went to SteinAir
(www.steinair.com) and sent them all my Dsub connectors, intercom jacks
etc. What I got back was an excellent, clean and easy to hook up wiring
harness for each of my panel components, to my custom specification. The
price was excellent, and the workmanship the same. Amidst some of the bad
news suppliers being discussed I just wanted to share my great experience
with the guys at Steinair.
Chris H
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | D-sub connectors current rating |
>Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
>soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
>pin I guess.
Bob,
In view of the fact that you really do owe us nothing, I sincerely
appreciate the trouble you go to for the likes of people like me. Thank
you mate.
I do not have a particular application in mind right now, but can
foresee maybe using a d-sub here or there. Not having any idea just how
much current they can safely carry, thought I would seek the wisdom
available on the list first.
In relation to the drawing you did for me at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif
Is that connector a Blue 'PIDGE' Splice ? If so, could you tell me what
the 'E' stands for please Bob.
Thanks again
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Classic 281 in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Jig for wiring a 25 pin D-Sub connector |
>
>Bob....I spent two frustrating hours trying to solder a D-sub connector
>onto the 19+ wires of an Infinity Stick. The idea is to be able to remove
>the stick during annuals, etc. I eventually threw up the idea and decided
>there MUST be some kind of professional jig for wiring these things.
>Can you direct me to such a device?
>
>Many thanks
>
>Neil
You've probably got past this issue by now. Sorry that it slipped
so far behind. First, I'd pitch the solder type connector in favor
of crimp. You can get the connector housings from Radio Shack (throw
away pins that come with their crimp style connector) and substitute
machined pins from bandc.biz or steinair.com
Both suppliers also sell low cost tools to crimp and extract pins.
Soldered connectors are fine too, just less convenient. I'll solder
one if there's no convenient option to shift to crimped. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Garmin BNC connector |
>
>
>Listers
>
>I need to replace the BNC connector on my Garmin 196 GPS aerial lead.
>Doe's anyone know what type of connector I need, 50 or 75 ohm?
it will be 50 ohm but more likely rated to fit the particular
coax as opposed to having an impedance rating.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
Hi all!
I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had nearly
finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes,
I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty
much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably
already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the
archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and
need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the
AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG
FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II
and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval,
even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and
splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe
I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 w/ 582.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Olivier Le Carbonnier" <olcdlm(at)laposte.net> |
Subject: | Cheap terminal crimper |
i got the same crimper by Steinair.
Olivier
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part de
glaesers
Envoy : mardi 5 octobre 2004 03:32
: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
Objet : AeroElectric-List: Cheap terminal crimper
I was browsing on eBay and found the following wire crimper - an OTC-4497
"Stinger" for $19. It looks very similar to the tool on the B&C website.
I then did a Google search on the part number - hoping for more info - found
the second link but the same description.
Has anyone used one of these crimpers? Any chance these will make good
crimps on PIDG terminals??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281
&rd=1
also
http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod
uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | william mills <courierboy(at)earthlink.net> |
Guy -
Here's Bob's shop notes comparing two crimpers:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
Bill
>
>Hi all!
> I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had nearly
>finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes,
>I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty
>much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably
>already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the
>archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and
>need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the
>AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG
>FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II
>and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval,
>even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and
>splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe
>I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter?
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 w/ 582.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Guy,
I found the same crimpers on the B&C site for less than $20 on the web:
eBay (may not be there anymore):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31483&item=3843657281
&rd=1
Also that vendor's website:
http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Prod
uct_Code=OTC-4497&Category_Code=251
Or do a Google or eBay search for 'OTC-4497' or 'wire crimper'.
Whatever you get, your local EAA chapter would, I'm sure, appreciate the
donation. Alternatively, you can sell things on eBay to recoup some costs
when you are done ...
Good luck!
Dennis Glaeser
-------------------------------
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers
Hi all!
I purchased Bob Ducar's Kitfox IV a little while back. Bob had
nearly
finished it; only the wiring was left to do. I'm working on that now. (Yes,
I've got Bob Nucholls' book and will be installing his Z-17 system pretty
much as drawn.) Unfortunately that leads me to raise a subject probably
already discussed to death, even though I couldn't find much in the
archives. I want to use some PIDG FASTONs and other PIDG connectors and
need a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on the
AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG
FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-CRIMPER II
and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?) approval,
even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG terminals and
splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal? Maybe
I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA chapter?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 w/ 582.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Brame <Charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Instrument wiring |
I recently installed a MD40-67 GPS CDI in my instrument panel. The
pinout shows three separate 14 VDC power leads to the instrument;
however, no amperage information is provided. Can I connect all three
leads to the same fuzed power source or should each lead be separately
powered and fuzed? I have queried MidContinent about the wiring, but
have received no answers.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Avg Power Consumption |
Hello Listers,
In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out average
current consumption for a few different components. I have called the manufacturers
directly, but for the most part they only give me maximum current values
for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to a reliable source?
Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A transponder
a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in my O-235
powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to about 19 amps
or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of error. Besides, my
friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps according to him, so my 19
amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum of continuous
loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output. Sounds good
to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
Any input will be appreciated. Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
With Dual EI, 1 gyro, 1 radio, 1 transponder, and a VM-1000, I run 6~8 amps
continuous. Turn on position lights,boost pump,strobes and I am over 20 amps
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out
>average current consumption for a few different components. I have called
>the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me
>maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to
>a reliable source?
>
>Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A
>transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
>
>I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in
>my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to
>about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of
>error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps
>according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
>
>The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum
>of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output.
>Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
>
> Any input will be appreciated. Thanks,
> Grant Krueger
> Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Guy Buchanan
<>
10/6/2004
Hello Guy, You raise two interesting questions:
(1)Do the PIDG Faston connectors require different crimping than other forms of
PIDG connectors?
(2)What particular CSA (Canadian Standards Association) standard says that the
answer to the previous question is yes (at least in the Canadians minds) and why
do they say so?
You seem like the kind of person that would want to know the answers to those two
questions. Can we leave it in your good hands to pursue the answers and inform
us?
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 10/05/04 |
In a message dated 10/6/04 2:57:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> 6. 10:00 AM - 9 v power supply (czechsix(at)juno.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com |
Subject: | Re: 9V Power supply |
I have been using the Headsets Inc conversion with a single 9V power supply
for two years with no problems. The power supply, if you can call it that is a
positive fixed VR, with input of 10 to 20 V, and fixed output of 9V. It
could be just this one component, but I put a 100 mike condenser across the output
in deference to their stable requirements. It supplies both headsets, and
also a recorder of the audio, that will repeat the last 45 seconds, in case you
are wondering what ATC really said. I can't tell any difference in operation
now and when I was using two 9V batteries. Can't imagine why a separate
supply is needed for each headset. The VR cost $1.49. FWIW Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Re: 9V Power supply |
While you're correct that this would give you the proper voltage,
it doesn't accomplish the same thing as what you get when they
sell their jacks to you. Those are isolated.
The circuit that I used was something like this:
The 3-pin regulator providing 12V regulated power to the input of
a DC/DC converter. They sell you individual DC/DC converters
per headset jack. I purchased a MicroPower Direct B1200RU 12W
Ultra-Wide input Range Single and Dual Output DC/DC converter.
Then I regulated the output to 9V. It was all so that I'd have
"sacrificial" components (there was a fuse in there too), so
that you could short it out and not affect either the headset,
or the rest of the airplane wiring. I knew it was overkill
when I built it, but they are using DC/DC converters, and I'm
sure they don't do it just so they can sell them to you, so
I did it that way too. All in all, I should have just bought
the jacks they sold. My cost wasn't too far away from what
their parts were.
Tim
Frankhsmit(at)wmconnect.com wrote:
>
> I have been using the Headsets Inc conversion with a single 9V power supply
> for two years with no problems. The power supply, if you can call it that is
a
> positive fixed VR, with input of 10 to 20 V, and fixed output of 9V. It
> could be just this one component, but I put a 100 mike condenser across the output
> in deference to their stable requirements. It supplies both headsets, and
> also a recorder of the audio, that will repeat the last 45 seconds, in case you
> are wondering what ATC really said. I can't tell any difference in operation
> now and when I was using two 9V batteries. Can't imagine why a separate
> supply is needed for each headset. The VR cost $1.49. FWIW Frank
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
Well, I was hoping someone would have found out long ago, but if not I will
track it down. I had good success reaching technical support at AMP and I'm
sure they have the answer. I'll let the list know what I find.
Guy
>You seem like the kind of person that would want to know the answers to
>those two questions. Can we leave it in your good hands to pursue the
>answers and inform us?
>
>OC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
Subject: | Flightcom Intercom |
Listers
I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an existing intercom
which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't work very well. The aircraft,Vans
RV9, has a Microair 760 and is already hard wired. The PTT buttons
are wired directly into the radio but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through
the intercom. I have a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones
but the push to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to
access without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot
/ Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT connection to the
403mc.
Wot you fink
Neil Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
On Oct 7, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Neil Henderson wrote:
>
>
>
> Listers
>
>
> I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
> existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't
> work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is
> already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio
> but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have
> a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push
> to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access
> without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot /
> Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT
> connection to the 403mc.
The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT
lines through the intercom.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Peter Laurence <dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
> >Brian,
I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
> > work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
Peter Laurence
> > Listers
> >
> >
> > I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
> > existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't
> > work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is
> > already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio
> > but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have
> > a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push
> > to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access
> > without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot /
> > Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT
> > connection to the 403mc.
>
> The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
> When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
> going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT
> lines through the intercom.
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Guy Buchanan
>
> < a crimp tool. I found Bob Nucholl's on B&C for $40. I checked on
>the AMP site and they said I had to use their ~$350 TETRA-CRIMP for PIDG
>FASTONs. I called them and asked why I couldn't use the ~$66 PRO-
>CRIMPER II and they said that the resulting crimps would not meet CSA (?)
>approval, even though the PRO-CRIMPER is approved for all other PIDG
>terminals
>and splices. I'd like to do it right, but am I getting entirely too anal?
>Maybe I should buy the expensive one and donate it to the local EAA
>chapter? Guy Buchanan>>
>
>10/6/2004
>
>Hello Guy, You raise two interesting questions:
>
>(1)Do the PIDG Faston connectors require different crimping than other
>forms of PIDG connectors?
If you're a professional designer of terminals and the tools that install
them, you would do well to at least KNOW what the optimum die shapes
and pressures are for installing ANY terminal on ANY wire.
You would be equally aware of a RANGE of acceptable installations
selected such that one tool does an adequate job installing several
terminals on several wires. This allows one tool to install a red
PIDG on 18, 20, and 22 AWG wire.
>(2)What particular CSA (Canadian Standards Association) standard says that
>the answer to the previous question is yes (at least in the Canadians
>minds) and why do they say so?
One can only guess. Without reading a report wherein terminals
were installed, data gathered and and a judgement applied as
to the adequacy of any particular wire/terminal/tool combination,
we're not going to know.
The poor man's rule of thumb is described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
as the "milk-jug" test. One could also repeat the
experiment described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
Check out the cross-section of a finished crimp
as illustrated in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg
An inexpensive 30x illuminated microscope from Radio
Shack will let you do similar studies with ease.
It would be interesting to hear what a professional
from AMP/Waldom/TB has to say . . . Just be aware
that there are OPTIMUM combinations and ACCEPTABLE
combinations that cover a RANGE of situations. So
while getting their opinions, be sure to ask
their recommendations for home workshop testing
techniques that would help you explore compatibility
of your own combinations of terminals/tools/wire.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
>
> >Hello Listers,
> >
> >In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out
> >average current consumption for a few different components. I have called
> >the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me
> >maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to
> >a reliable source?
> >
> >Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A
> >transponder a Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
> >
> >I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in
> >my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to
> >about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of
> >error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps
> >according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice
piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the
L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's
also about 2x the price.
> >
> >The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum
> >of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output.
> >Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable
with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge,
then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Instrument wiring |
>
>
>I recently installed a MD40-67 GPS CDI in my instrument panel. The
>pinout shows three separate 14 VDC power leads to the instrument;
>however, no amperage information is provided. Can I connect all three
>leads to the same fuzed power source or should each lead be separately
>powered and fuzed? I have queried MidContinent about the wiring, but
>have received no answers.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Many manufacturer's provide multiple pins for power and ground
in their connectors. Put a 22AWG in each pin. Extend into the wire
bundle 6 to 12" and bring them together into a splice. Continue on
from the splice with 20AWG or whatever is appropriate.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | D-sub connectors current rating |
>
>
> >Requesting the max current rating for miniature d-sub connectors, both
> >soldered and machined pin types please. That would be max current per
> >pin I guess.
>
>Bob,
>
>In view of the fact that you really do owe us nothing, I sincerely
>appreciate the trouble you go to for the likes of people like me. Thank
>you mate.
>
>I do not have a particular application in mind right now, but can
>foresee maybe using a d-sub here or there. Not having any idea just how
>much current they can safely carry, thought I would seek the wisdom
>available on the list first.
>
>In relation to the drawing you did for me at
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/dsub-pin-paralleling.gif
>
>Is that connector a Blue 'PIDGE' Splice ? If so, could you tell me what
>the 'E' stands for please Bob.
Just a slip of the pen . . . my address is on Bainbridge . . . I
just didn't watch to see when it was a good time to stop writing.
I've redrawn that figure and posted it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Paralleled_DSub_Pins.pdf
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Subject: | VHF Antenna - Comant vs. RAMI |
Hi Bob,
You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
since I asked them this question a couple of hours
ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
vertically.
I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
they don't have to be vertical!
Mickey
>>
>>Re-post original may have gotten lost in the Christmas rush.
>>I hope to install the contactor tomorrow.
>>
>>Hi Bob and All,
>>
>>Quick question. Is there any concern about mounting a battery contactor with
>>the coil tube in the horizontal position? Given the pounding that our
>>seaplane will take on the water I wondered if there was any problem with the
>>coil holding the contact bar in a horizontal position verses pulling it down
>>while in a vertical position.
>
> There are many a hangar-legend and ol' mechanic's tales circulating
> about suggesting that there are critical orientation issues with
> respect to contactor installation. All are based upon some
> mis-interpretation of facts. The short answer is, No. Please
> feel free to mount your contactors to maximize convenience
> of installation.
>
> Bob . . .
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time,
mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes:
Hi Bob,
You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
since I asked them this question a couple of hours
ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
vertically.
I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
they don't have to be vertical!
Mickey
Good Afternoon Mickey,
For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about
twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started to become
intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting
rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical
and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor
about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real?
I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
The contactor orientation issues came to a boil more than 10 years
ago when some airshow performer landing and discovered a trashed
starter and chewed up ring gear. Theory was at the time that g-loads
during the show teased the contactor shut and welded it.
In all likelihood, the performer was concentrating on the task
ahead and did not notice that the starter contactor stuck when
the engine was started . . . he probably flew the whole event
with the starter motor engaged.
Let's noodle through how these things work:
The battery contactor has a fairly light spring and yeah,
one MIGHT be able to tease an OPEN contactor CLOSED with
g-loading . . . but we fly with this contactor already
engaged. You're NOT going to drive it OPEN with g-loading.
Starter contactors have much heavier springs (for the express
purpose of driving contacts open even when they may have stuck
a little bit). Starter contactors usually mount on the firwall
with their axis of operation parallel to waterlines. Not only
is the starter contactor relatively immune from effects of
g-loading due to much heavier spring, it's mounted in the
airplane such that it doesn't experience g-loads due to
aero-maneuvers.
Consider further that many folks don't have battery boxes.
The battery sets in a shallow tray on a horizontal shelf.
There are no vertical surfaces upon which one might mount
the battery contactor . . . I sure wouldn't build a bracket
for the sole purpose of standing the battery contactor up.
That puppy lays down on the shelf right beside the battery.
Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the
battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business
end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater
benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the
contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest
part of the lid.
I'll suggest that 99% of the worrying about contactor
orientation adds no real value and will at best influence
service life by perhaps +/- ten percent. Since we're
designing failure tolerant systems from the get-go,
I wouldn't loose any sleep over contactor service life.
Bob . . .
>
>
>In a message dated 10/7/2004 1:27:40 PM Central Standard Time,
>mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>You may want to update the B&C guys on this issue,
>since I asked them this question a couple of hours
>ago, and they said that I should mount the contactor
>vertically.
>
>I didn't like the answer, so I searched through the
>archives, and found this Q&A. I'm happy to hear
>they don't have to be vertical!
>
>Mickey
>
>
>Good Afternoon Mickey,
>
>For What It Is Worth. I had an Essex 8449 contactor in service for about
>twelve years that I had mounted with the coil horizontal. It started
>to become
>intermittent. I contacted the manufacturer and asked about the old mounting
>rumor. I was told that it should have been mounted with the coil vertical
>and the business end down. I switched to that when I replaced the contactor
>about three years ago. So far so good, but who knows for real?
>
>I had about two thousand hours of flight time with the coil horizontal.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Airpark LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8502
>
>
>---
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
Hi Bob,
>Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the
>battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business
>end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater
>benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the
>contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest
>part of the lid.
Thanks for your explanation. This is another example
of where knowledge of how things work can help a lot.
The battery contactor is a black box for me. I have
only a vague idea what is happening inside. Do you know if
anyone has cut one open and posted pictures somewhere?
I guess I could sacrifice one of my new ones, and order
another. I don't have easy access to used stuff.
Also, which end would you consider the "business end",
the end with the connections? I was about to mount
mine with this end up. I guess another thing to add
to your list of things to do is "Everything you wanted
to know about contactors, but were afraid to ask".
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
Brian
Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to transmit at the
same time. This must be the case with RST unit because the PTT buttons are connected
in parallel directly into the radio. I think I might connect it up and
see. Doe's anyone see a problem with this.
In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite being looked
at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing it. The squelch control
pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise ratio is unacceptable, maybe due
to the fact that I modified it as built in unit by remote mounting the pot's
and switch. RST are not prepared to check it out in this form. The standard RST
unit was only availlable as a portable unit.
Neil
>
>
>
> Listers
>
>
> I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
> existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and doesn't
> work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760 and is
> already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into the radio
> but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the intercom. I have
> a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and Headphones but the push
> to talk buttons go straight to the radio and are difficult to access
> without a major rewired. Will the intercom work with just the Pilot /
> Co Pilot Mic and Headphones connected or must their be a PPT
> connection to the 403mc.
The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the PTT
lines through the intercom.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
> > work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
Peter Laurence
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Peter Laurence wrote:
>
>
>>> Brian,
> I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
> You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
>>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
> Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
No, that was not from me. I have no experience with Jim's intercom and
so cannot comment. I did build and install his marker beacon receiver
in my RV-4 and was pleased with its performance. Jim seems to know
what he is doing.
YMMV.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
> better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
> output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're
> comfortable
> with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
> you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute
> recharge,
> then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage
charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to
about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you
can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage
which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn
more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already
have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more
alternator capacity will not speed charging.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
I can't possibly be the only one wondering this, but, why
don't you just do the job right and wire it as it was intended,
even though it's more work. There's something to be said
about doing the job properly. I b1tch up and down every time
I have to re-do the wiring in our house because I find something
that wasn't done properly. I can only bet that down the road
you'd be far happier if everything actually worked as intended,
and matches the wiring diagram if someone else has to look at
it.
Tim
Neil Henderson wrote:
>
>
> Brian
>
> Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to
> transmit at the same time. This must be the case with RST unit
> because the PTT buttons are connected in parallel directly into the
> radio. I think I might connect it up and see. Doe's anyone see a
> problem with this.
>
> In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite
> being looked at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing
> it. The squelch control pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise
> ratio is unacceptable, maybe due to the fact that I modified it as
> built in unit by remote mounting the pot's and switch. RST are not
> prepared to check it out in this form. The standard RST unit was only
> availlable as a portable unit.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Listers
>>
>>
>> I have just purchased a Flightcom 403mc intercom to replace an
>> existing intercom which I built from a RST Engineering kit and
>> doesn't work very well. The aircraft,Vans RV9, has a Microair 760
>> and is already hard wired. The PTT buttons are wired directly into
>> the radio but the 403mc calls for them to be wired through the
>> intercom. I have a "D" connector with easy access for Mic and
>> Headphones but the push to talk buttons go straight to the radio
>> and are difficult to access without a major rewired. Will the
>> intercom work with just the Pilot / Co Pilot Mic and Headphones
>> connected or must their be a PPT connection to the 403mc.
>
>
> The PTT connection is needed to tell the intercom which mic to mute.
> When the pilot's PTT is pressed the intercom mutes the copilot's mic
> going into the radio and vice versa. So, yes, you need to wire the
> PTT lines through the intercom.
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brianl(at)lloyd.com
> Suite 201 +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
>
> I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom. You stated that the
> RST intercom "doesn't
>
>>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
>
> Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
>
> Peter Laurence
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
On Oct 8, 2004, at 9:03 AM, Neil Henderson wrote:
>
>
> Brian
>
> Presumably the intercom would still work, both would be able to
> transmit at the same time. This must be the case with RST unit because
> the PTT buttons are connected in parallel directly into the radio. I
> think I might connect it up and see. Doe's anyone see a problem with
> this.
No, that should work but you do have the problem of hushing your
passenger when you talk on the radio. Ultimately you are going to find
this annoying and will want to wire the PTTs into the intercom. If it
were me, I would bite the bullet and rewire properly now.
> In answer to Peter's question. I can't get to work properly despite
> being looked at by an electronic wiss kid,that's why I'm replacing it.
> The squelch control pretty indeterminate and the signal to noise ratio
> is unacceptable, maybe due to the fact that I modified it as built in
> unit by remote mounting the pot's and switch. RST are not prepared to
> check it out in this form. The standard RST unit was only availlable
> as a portable unit.
Jim Weir is a bright guy who seems to do a good job designing things.
I am surprised you are having problems if you have built it correctly.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
From: | earl_schroeder(at)juno.com |
I have a couple of RST intercoms that have worked fine for ~10 years.
Simple straight forward design. If done per the kit, I see no problems
with remote mounting the volume & squelch controls. Earl
> > I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
> > You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
> >>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
> > Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
Subject: | Resetting CB in flight//Not in Russia |
Bob seems to have world wide influence :-) (well its nice to think so).
The October AOPA pilot mag page 98 has an article on a unique twin amphibian
from Russia.
ALL the CB are only accessable from outside, on the ground, as "the mfgr
"does not want popped breakers to be reset in the air.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
>
>On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
> > better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
> > output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're
> > comfortable
> > with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
> > you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute
> > recharge,
> > then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
>
>Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage
>charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to
>about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you
>can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage
>which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn
>more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already
>have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more
>alternator capacity will not speed charging.
That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus
voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already
"too-high". Any lead-acid battery will ULTIMATELY achieve 100%
charge at voltage considerably below the nominal 14.2 setting
of most regulator products. Our recommended nominal setting
on RAC products is 28.5 volts.
You're quite correct that optimum recharging of batteries
can take advantage of some pretty fancy footwork. See:
http://batterytender.com/battery_basics.php
If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
it take to increase a battery's service life by say
10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions
in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule:
Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8
may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights
once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's
almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to
tell the difference.
When the FAA was crafting the 80% rule, the spirit
and intent was pretty clear. If one takes off with
100% of the generator's output is taxed running ship's
electro-whizzies, the battery may never get recharged.
On the other hand, if you're day-vfr with nothing of
significance turned on, then most of the generator's
energy production is now surplus and may be used to
recharge the battery . . . assuming of course that
the battery will accept it.
I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA
OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier
I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated
regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6
is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of
installation) the return on investment is very
problematical.
I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks
extolling the virtues of elegant charging system
design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may
have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY
for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly
through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading
an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative
return on investment. I.e., certification stifles
improvements and may indeed reduce safety.
Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating
temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery
life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage.
The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with
a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans.
The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs
will be the driver for a go/no-go decision.
Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Horizontal contactor |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
> >Is there an "ideal" mounting position? Perhaps for the
> >battery contactor . . . a vertical mounting with the business
> >end down will have a very small operating benefit. The greater
> >benefit is to gather condensate in the lid away from the
> >contacts. I might even drill a #40 drain hole in the lowest
> >part of the lid.
>
>Thanks for your explanation. This is another example
>of where knowledge of how things work can help a lot.
>The battery contactor is a black box for me. I have
>only a vague idea what is happening inside. Do you know if
>anyone has cut one open and posted pictures somewhere?
>I guess I could sacrifice one of my new ones, and order
>another. I don't have easy access to used stuff.
>
>Also, which end would you consider the "business end",
>the end with the connections? I was about to mount
>mine with this end up. I guess another thing to add
>to your list of things to do is "Everything you wanted
>to know about contactors, but were afraid to ask".
See page 11-14 of the 'Connection. Also see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1b.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1c.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1d.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1e.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1f.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-1l.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S701-2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1b.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702-1l.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/S702wire.jpg
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
I just gooped the rudder bars which infringe upon the firewall
sides. I made overlapping plates either side and gooped the whole opening
with a McMaster-Carr offering of "Grace Flamesafe FS-1900 Sealant" - an
intumescent, elastomeric Firestop". I put the firepot to a copy of the
materials to see, and it kept the flames at bay for at least 15 minutes -
and it's good for one year.
tech assistance at 866-333-3726 or see at www.graceconstruction.com
Ferg
A064
www.mcmaster.com - start with page 1683, or search for fire stop compounds
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio. Inside 20 miles
it's OK, but I was expecting more. It's an SL30 radio with a clean commant
bent-whip antenna under the footwell. What sort of things can I do/check to
ensure I'm getting the max performance from it? At this point I'm
complaining about receiving, I haven't done any testing with max testing
range.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/8/2004 10:48:18 PM Central Standard Time,
Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes:
I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio. Inside 20 miles
it's OK, but I was expecting more.
Good Evening Larry,
What signal are you using to determine range. Are you sure that there is a
clear line of sight between your antenna and the radio sending the signal?
The curvature of the earth in twenty miles would put any ground based
transmitter well out of sight over level ground.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
I am use to receiving local tranmisions from within certain areas. I can
usually pick up the atis from xx miles out. I can usually converse with
apch xx miles out. This is unscientifically based on my routines in the
local rental fleet over the last six years. Nothing scientific, just
impressions.........
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com [mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 11:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Range
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/8/2004 10:48:18 PM Central Standard
> Time, Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes:
>
> I'm a little disappointed in the range of my comm radio.
> Inside 20 miles it's OK, but I was expecting more.
>
>
> Good Evening Larry,
>
> What signal are you using to determine range. Are you sure
> that there is a clear line of sight between your antenna and
> the radio sending the signal?
>
> The curvature of the earth in twenty miles would put any
> ground based transmitter well out of sight over level ground.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/8/2004 11:13:18 PM Central Standard Time,
Larry(at)BowenAero.com writes:
I am use to receiving local transmissions from within certain areas. I can
usually pick up the atis from xx miles out. I can usually converse with
apch xx miles out. This is unscientifically based on my routines in the
local rental fleet over the last six years. Nothing scientific, just
impressions.........
Thanks,
Good Evening Larry,
If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom
mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic. Be sure that
your new radio is getting the same chance at reception that you were getting
from the rental airplanes.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Good Evening Larry,
If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom
mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<<
Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet lower at
a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still vertical, will be
upside down! Transmissions might even come though backwards. Upper sideband
will appear as lower, and vice versa. This could smoke your expensive radio...
Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a parallel universe;
not to worry, I guess.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls(at)cox.net
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avg Power Consumption
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:35:59 -0500
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" b.nuckolls(at)cox.net
Hello Listers,
In an attempt to size my alternator appropriately I am trying to find out
average current consumption for a few different components. I have called
the manufacturers directly, but for the most part they only give me
maximum current values for their devices. Can anyone help or direct me to
a reliable source?
Specifically I'm looking for average current values for a King KT-76A
transpondera Garmin GNC 250 XL GPS/Com.
I would like very much to put a BC 20 amp, vacuum pad driven alternator in
my O-235 powered Kitfox, but the current values I have are adding up to
about 19 amps or so. I feel like (20-19)=1 amp is too thin a margin of
error. Besides, my friend's mustang replica only runs about 15 amps
according to him, so my 19 amps seems real high. Anyadvice?
Why cripple yourself with so small an alternator? It's a nice
piece of equipment but it's EXACTLY the same alternator as the
L-40 . . . de-rated because the vacuum pump pad runs so slow. It's
also about 2x the price.
I've been told by many qualifed sources to build light. The BC 20 amp alternator
only weighs about 5.75 lbs.....that's 2 lbs lighter than the belt driven Honda
alternator I currently have on ( about 0.4 lbs lighter thanBC L-40) which is
big, but even bigger when you consider that I can get rid of the belt mounting
bracket bolttoo. Once the belt is gone, I don'tneed the groove on the flywheel
either so I'm looking at ahuge weight savings by using a vacuum pump pad
driven alternator.....assuming it's electrically sufficient.Equally important
to me,the airplane I'm buildingwill be nose heavy to begin with.....so by using
the SD-20, there is a lot of weight out of the very front the necessary remainder
has moved back a couple feet. As for cost, B Coffered tosell me the SD-20
without the STC for the same cost as the L-40. Still real steep at ~$700,
but I'll
splurge for that kind of weight CG improvement.
Call me a lightweight or a weight savings kook.....I bought 32 feet of Eric's copper
clad aluminum battery cable replaced the heavy polyvinylinsulation with
polyolefin that is 1/2 the weight more temperature resistant.
The only rule of thumb I've been told about sizing an alternatoris the sum
of continuous loads should not exceed 80% of rated alternator output.
Sounds good to me. Are there other guidelines commonly used?
The 80% rule is intended to cover battery recharge issues. A
better statement of the rule-of-thumb is to have sufficient
output to recharge the battery in whatever interval you're comfortable
with. If you like 30 minutes and you have a 17 a.h. battery,
you need 34 amps of headroom. If you're okay with a 90 minute recharge,
then 6 amps of headroom would do it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 15.95 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75
amps
I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when
I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with
a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking
for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 -
Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety?
One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or
last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights
off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system
can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | How to connect solder tab switches into crimp design |
Bob, or others,
I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf
There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on the toggle,
available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic toggles. I just
don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy.
The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab variety.
Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector on the other
end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to each switch post,
but might need to use something smaller than 1/4 inch. The pigtail would
let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not sure if this is a feature or
just marginally more work. The switches will be mounted on a subpanel with a
service loop. The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels
for the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all
but the legend spots.
Jim Foerster J400, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:23:37 AM Central Standard Time,
SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes:
Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a
parallel universe; not to worry, I guess.
-Stormy
Good Afternoon Stormy,
I understand your skepticism, but that five feet a can make a major
difference. At my home drome, I can work a local FAA communication station just
fine
with the top antenna and can get no contact at all with the bottom antenna.
In addition to the signal being grabbed up by the ground clutter, there is
always the possibility of getting interference with reinforcing metal in the
ground cover.
Five feet may not seem like much to you, but it could be a lot to the
antenna.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Aldrich" <sa(at)mwutah.com> |
Subject: | Alternator shield grounds |
I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now
understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
the firewall single point ground be okay?
Thanks,
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
Friends,
There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on building a
milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available from the magazine.
It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current limiting resistor
into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio operators might know
this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a 'lock-in milliohmmeter'.
It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for checking switches, big connections,
and other things presently not measurable. The author used perf board
and point to point wiring, which looks messy but apparently worked well--this
type of circuit is very forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal
read with a two line by 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make
a good shared unit for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all
the time.
I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to share the
layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send three boards
for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of course, Eric Jones
might want to do this, and that would be the best arrangement, but I would
like to see if there is any interest in such a project.
I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very expensive, e.g.
$2,500
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Old Bob:
I hope you recognized tongue-in-cheek :-)
You are right that on the ground, 5 feet (belly vs turtledeck) can and often does
make all the diffrerence in the readability of an AM signal. I have experienced
the detuning effect and the nulls in the pattern on many occasions with
belly antennas, and with the other kind, though less often. His question specifically
referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet. Different rules apply
up there.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB. (and
/ or just the layout).
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
>
> Friends,
>
> There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on
building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code available
from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current
limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur radio
operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it a
'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for
checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not
measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which
looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very
forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by
16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared unit
for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time.
>
> I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to
share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send
three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of
course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best
arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a
project.
>
> I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very
expensive, e.g. $2,500
>
> Jim Foerster
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Comments on Wiring Diagram |
Bob,
I'd like to get your comments on my wiring diagram (modified fig Z-11) before I
go crazycutting crimping. I don't think I can send an attachment to the list.
Would you be willing to comment if I sent you the file off list?
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Riley <richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
Subject: | Alt field switch amp rating |
I'm picking an alternator field switch. I want to use a locking miniature
toggle. I understand that I need a 5 amp breaker on the alt field. The
switch I'd like to use doesn't give me a rating at 12 volts. It lists 3
amps at 30 VDC. Is it enough?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/9/2004 12:59:02 PM Central Standard Time,
SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes:
His question specifically referenced an altitude of some thousands of feet.
Different rules apply up there.
-Stormy
Good Afternoon Stormy,
I guess I missed the reference to an altitude.
Sorry for the bad information.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator shield grounds |
>
>I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I now
>understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
>ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
>shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
>the firewall single point ground be okay?
What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics
of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding
so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from
a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach
one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths
between the crankcase and airframe.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Jim -
I am definitely interested in a pcb for this meter. I don't have a copy of
the magazine. Any suggestions as to how to get a copy of the article?
Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Anyone need a milliohmmeter? |
Hi all,
Just re-read an article by Bob about a low ohm adaptator for low resistance
measurements. The 10 $ fixture works with a digital multimeter and is
powered by dry cell batteries. Working on DC current might be significant
for coil measurements, for instance ?
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
>
> I must have missed that article and yes I would be interested in a PCB.
(and
> / or just the layout).
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Anyone need a milliohmmeter?
>
>
>
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > There is an article in the Jan. 2004 Circuit Cellar Ink magazine on
> building a milliohmmeter. It uses a microcontroller with the code
available
> from the magazine. It uses a 1 KHz signal at 5 volts through a current
> limiting resistor into the low value resistance. You oldtime amateur
radio
> operators might know this circuit as a synchronous detector. They call it
a
> 'lock-in milliohmmeter'. It reads zero to 190 milliohms, about right for
> checking switches, big connections, and other things presently not
> measurable. The author used perf board and point to point wiring, which
> looks messy but apparently worked well--this type of circuit is very
> forgiving of noise. The output is a serial signal read with a two line by
> 16 place LCD display. Anyone interested? It would make a good shared
unit
> for an EAA chapter, and the author says he uses it all the time.
> >
> > I'm considering doing a PC board layout for this, and would be happy to
> share the layout with anyone who might want it. pcbexpress.com will send
> three boards for $62, and I would expect to design to this size board. Of
> course, Eric Jones might want to do this, and that would be the best
> arrangement, but I would like to see if there is any interest in such a
> project.
> >
> > I did look briefly for commercial milliohmmeters, and they a very
> expensive, e.g. $2,500
> >
> > Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Aldrich" <sa(at)mwutah.com> |
Subject: | Alternator shield grounds |
Thanks Bob.
Scott
>I ran shielded wire for all my alternator and voltage regulator lines, I
now
>understand that wasn't necessary. But since I did, would I want to only
>ground one end like on the magneto P leads or ground both ends of the
>shielding? If both, would bringing the shields from the bus end back to
>the firewall single point ground be okay?
What ever methodology you like. There are no characteristics
of noise on the alternator wires that benefit from shielding
so the manner in which you connect shields doesn't matter from
a perspective of performance. I would recommend that you attach
one end only so as to avoid creation of multiple ground paths
between the crankcase and airframe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> crimp design |
Subject: | Re: How to connect solder tab switches into |
crimp design
crimp design
>
>
>Bob, or others,
>
>I have decided to use some miniature toggle switches with LED indicators
>at the tip. These are available with two colors, and I got the red-green
>pair and well as pure amber. This lets me use the switch itself as an
>annunciator, and for takeoff, all the switches should be "in the
>green". I could find these only in miniature size made by NKK. Here is
>the URL http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf
Cute! You realize of course that you'll need to buffer these switches
for high current loads (more than 5A or so). Relays or solid-state
contactors will be needed for landing lights, pitot heat, nav lights
etc.
>There are full size switches made with faston tabs, with LED lighting on
>the toggle, available from auto supply houses, but these have plastic
>toggles. I just don't like the idea of a plastic toggle--too flimsy.
Okay.
>The NKK 2100 series is miniature, and I could only purchase the solder tab
>variety. Do I solder a two inch pigtail with a male crimp PIDG connector
>on the other end? I could also directly solder an uninsulated tab on to
>each switch post, but might need to use something smaller than 1/4
>inch. The pigtail would let me use shrink tubing over the joint: I'm not
>sure if this is a feature or just marginally more work. The switches will
>be mounted on a subpanel with a service loop.
I'd make the sub-panel removable as an assembly with enough
service slack in the wires that you can easily get the assembly
clear of the panel for maintenance. Then solder wires directly to
the switches and heat-shrink the joints. Make service loops
long enough that you can clip off and replace the switch several
times. An extra inch of wire should suffice.
> The subpanel will have the backlighting built in as flat LED panels for
> the legends, and I'm considering Lexan sheet with paint to mask all but
> the legend spots.
Consider back-engraved lexan placards. You can put colored gels over the
lettering from behind and illuminate with white leds for both daylight
and nite visibility.
>Jim Foerster J400, wiring
>
>
>---
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Good Evening Larry,
>
>If you are comparing a top mounted antenna on a Cessna 150 with a bottom
>mounted antenna on a home built, the difference could be dramatic.<<
>
>Yeah, after all, not only the experimental's antenna will be five feet
>lower at a given altitude, its antenna polarization, although still
>vertical, will be upside down! Transmissions might even come though
>backwards. Upper sideband will appear as lower, and vice versa. This
>could smoke your expensive radio...
>
>Oh, wait; what was I thinking? These problems would only exist in a
>parallel universe; not to worry, I guess.
Not at all. The radiation pattern for a quarter-wave vertical antenna
over a ground plane peaks at 15 to 20 degrees above the horizon.
The top mounted Cessna antennas talk and hear best for stations
above the horizon. Bottom mounted antennas will see more of the
earth's surface. All things being equal, the bottom mounted antenna
should perform best most of the time for communicating with ground
stations well below the horizon. For stations a long way off (essentially
ON the horizon), it's a toss-up. Depending on bearing of the station
and variables of location on the fuselage, top or bottom mounted
antennas may trade off the "Top Dog Antenna Awards".
Small airplanes are a large departure from idealized installations
for resonant antennas. We have some VERY expensive computer software
that predicts antenna performance on our "big" ol' bizjets. Even
airplanes of this size present some lumpy radiation patterns
that depart considerably from the antenna range ideals.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Firewall goop |
Ferg,
Thanks for the tip. Looking in McMaster-Carr's online catalog, they don't
mention the model (FS-1900) on the catalog page. Do I assume correctly,
that you are referring to the product which is described as:
Water-Based, Expanding- Cures to a flexible seal that, when exposed to
heat, expands up to seven times its original volume to fill voids left by
melting PVC, plastic pipe, and insulation. Perfect for construction joints
where expansion and contraction exist. Can be sanded and painted. Contains
no solvents or silicones, and won't emit gases. Install at temperatures
from 40=B0 to 90=B0 F.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Cheers,
> I just gooped the rudder bars which infringe upon the firewall
>sides. I made overlapping plates either side and gooped the whole opening
>with a McMaster-Carr offering of "Grace Flamesafe FS-1900 Sealant" - an
>intumescent, elastomeric Firestop". I put the firepot to a copy of the
>materials to see, and it kept the flames at bay for at least 15 minutes -
>and it's good for one year.
>tech assistance at 866-333-3726 or see at www.graceconstruction.com
>
>Ferg
>A064
>www.mcmaster.com - start with page 1683, or search for fire stop compounds
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avg Power Consumption |
On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage
>> charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to
>> about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you
>> can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage
>> which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn
>> more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already
>> have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more
>> alternator capacity will not speed charging.
>
> That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus
> voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already
> "too-high".
Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to
ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent the
battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a
proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the
battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall
off too soon, before the battery is fully charged.
Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I posted
for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting
reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that
flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that.
> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
> it take to increase a battery's service life by say
> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
> field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse
the hell out of their batteries.
> Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions
> in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule:
> Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8
> may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights
> once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's
> almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to
> tell the difference.
Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have
solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I
have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator
controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift
from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank
there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in
my pocket.
> I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA
> OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier
> I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated
> regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6
> is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of
> installation) the return on investment is very
> problematical.
OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't
provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra
complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the
Unison/Slick electronic magneto system.
> I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks
> extolling the virtues of elegant charging system
> design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may
> have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY
> for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly
> through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading
> an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative
> return on investment. I.e., certification stifles
> improvements and may indeed reduce safety.
It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for
the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long
way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit the
output of the alternator to a safe level.
> Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating
> temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery
> life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage.
> The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with
> a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans.
> The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs
> will be the driver for a go/no-go decision.
>
> Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens.
Just change the battery every year ...
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Hi Bob,
Thank you for the info. You're right it is Hitachi. Would you please send me
the web site where you found this info, or where I could get additional
technical data on the regulator, a schematic, etc.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Bob, my previous post left out this info: Hitachi, LT150-62 alternator.
Sorry I'm not quite awake yet.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flightcom Intercom |
On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Peter Laurence wrote:
>
>
>>> Brian,
> I was thinking of purchasing Jim Weir's intercom.
> You stated that the RST intercom "doesn't
>>> work very well." Would you elaborate on this?.
> Is it a faulty circuit or in your opinion a not so great design?
No, that was not from me. I have no experience with Jim's intercom and
so cannot comment. I did build and install his marker beacon receiver
in my RV-4 and was pleased with its performance. Jim seems to know
what he is doing.
YMMV.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: 11654 Murphy |
>Bob
> Do you have a sourse for circuit breakers with Fast On terminals. B&C
> cannot supply. John Murphy
If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the
breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly
onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to
reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then
the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost
when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it
and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with
more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on.
Really messy.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: | LASAR enunciator light wiring Q |
This question is for those of you who have installed a LASAR
system on your bird and have *not* used the supplied enunciator
light, but instead wired an enunciator light of your chosing.
I'm trying to figure out how to wire this. The LASAR enunciator
light socket has three inputs: (1) positive voltage from the bus,
(2) negative feed, and a third (3) feed which comes from the LASAR
ignition black box. I want to wire this to a light socket
which has only two posts.
I've tried using just 1 and 3 and the light just stays on.
Didn't want to experiment much further.
Any ideas?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
Bob et al,
When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
Thank you in anticipation.
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Miniature switch current ratings-was ?how to wire a |
solder type switch...
Bob,
Thanks for your comments. You mentioned that with these smaller switches I
would need to use a relay for pitot heat, nav and landing lights, and other
high current needs. I reread your chapter on switch ratings, and reread the
spec sheet for the NKK 2100 series switches. They are rated for resistive
loads only: 3 amps at 30 volts DC, 6 amps at 125 volts AC. With a life
cycle of 25,000 electrical and 50,000 mechanical, I don't mind overloading
them. But the chapter on incandescent loads is worrisome. I may need to
use some of the ugly automobile switches rated for 20 to 30 amps. Radio
Shack, Pep Boys, Kragen Auto all have rocker type lighted switches with a
round hole mount and 1/4 inch tabs. These use a large bar of copper
internally to make contact. I took one apart last year, but can't do the
nice photomicrographs that you do to show this. In any event, rather than
use relays, I will use a switch with higher ratings for incandescent loads.
Listers should know that there are a wide variety of high current switches
with LED or illuminated actuators and 1/4 inch tabs. The highest quality
unit, made by Cole-Hersee, is about $19 from West Marine, and is slightly
larger than a standard toggle but with a plastic case. It is sealed, rated
at 30 amps, and has a white LED tip. At the other end of the toggle
spectrum, for about $4.00, is a #85909 Conduct-Tite switch from Kragen, also
rated at 30 amps. It has a plastic toggle wrapped with an aluminum tube
with a red LED at the tip. Looks nice, but I will carry spares.
Fortunately, the landing lights are HID from Hella. I don't think the HID
ballast will pull the same current spike as a cold filament, so I can use
the nice NKK switch.
I wonder if it is possible to estimate the risk of a welded switch by the
rise in resistance after a small numbers of cycles, say, 100. Perhaps this
is another application for the milliohmmeter...
Jim Foerster J400, wiring slooowly
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Subject: | Re: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q |
Walter,
I was using a LED which is blinking (gets your attention faster).
The 2nd post is just used as a push to test, that is the reason you have
three, but as the ignition is on fault when you switch it on and do the
magneto check, you do not need this functionality.
You did wire it correctly, as the enunciator will go out, when the engine is
running after about 20 seconds only =(;o).
Just in case you have once problems starting after the first splutters, try
to "reset" the Lasar by switch off power for a few seconds, then engage
again and it will start immediately.
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q
>
> This question is for those of you who have installed a LASAR
> system on your bird and have *not* used the supplied enunciator
> light, but instead wired an enunciator light of your chosing.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to wire this. The LASAR enunciator
> light socket has three inputs: (1) positive voltage from the bus,
> (2) negative feed, and a third (3) feed which comes from the LASAR
> ignition black box. I want to wire this to a light socket
> which has only two posts.
>
> I've tried using just 1 and 3 and the light just stays on.
> Didn't want to experiment much further.
>
> Any ideas?
> --
> Walter Tondu
> http://www.rv7-a.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
Morning, Kingsley..
Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw
sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more.
If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most
likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875
inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches.
In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a
3/16" bolt.
Harley Dixon
Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
>Bob et al,
>
>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
>
>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
>
>Thank you in anticipation.
>
>Kingsley Hurst
>Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
Morning, again, Kingsley...
I just noticed your location! I see now why you would be confused!
Trying to deal with us Americans who create their own number systems (or
use archaic ones unrelated to actual dimensions).
Sorry I didn't notice that the first time.
Here's a chart that may help:
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14043/css/14043_100.htm
Harley
Harley wrote:
>
>Morning, Kingsley..
>
>Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw
>sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more.
>
>If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most
>likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875
>inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches.
>
>In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a
>3/16" bolt.
>
>Harley Dixon
>
>
>Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob et al,
>>
>>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
>>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
>>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
>>
>>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
>>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
>>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
>>
>>Thank you in anticipation.
>>
>>Kingsley Hurst
>>Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
Boy...I am having a bad morning...swore off coffee for awhile...maybe I
should get back on it!
Anyway, Kingsley, I sent you a link to the wrong chart. That one was
for wood screws! Here's the one for machine screws:
http://bosunsupplies.com/ScrewSizesThreads.cfm
Shutting down, and getting a cup of coffee..
Harley
Harley wrote:
>
>Morning, again, Kingsley...
>
>I just noticed your location! I see now why you would be confused!
>Trying to deal with us Americans who create their own number systems (or
>use archaic ones unrelated to actual dimensions).
>
>Sorry I didn't notice that the first time.
>
>Here's a chart that may help:
>
>http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14043/css/14043_100.htm
>
>Harley
>
>
>Harley wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Morning, Kingsley..
>>
>>Nothing "convoluted" about it...those numbers are the standard screw
>>sizes that have been in use for 100 years or more.
>>
>>If your stud is 3/16" it's most probably really a #10 screw...most
>>likely a 10-32 (#10 screw with 32 threads per inch). 3/16" is 0.1875
>>inches, a #10 screw is 0.190 inches.
>>
>>In any case, a #10 ring terminal will fit on either a #10 bolt, or a
>>3/16" bolt.
>>
>>Harley Dixon
>>
>>
>>Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Bob et al,
>>>
>>>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
>>>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
>>>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
>>>
>>>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
>>>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
>>>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
>>>
>>>Thank you in anticipation.
>>>
>>>Kingsley Hurst
>>>Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
Subject: | Re: LASAR enunciator light wiring Q |
On 10/11 8:20, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> Walter,
>
> I was using a LED which is blinking (gets your attention faster).
>
> The 2nd post is just used as a push to test, that is the reason you have
> three, but as the ignition is on fault when you switch it on and do the
> magneto check, you do not need this functionality.
>
> You did wire it correctly, as the enunciator will go out, when the engine is
> running after about 20 seconds only =(;o).
>
> Just in case you have once problems starting after the first splutters, try
> to "reset" the Lasar by switch off power for a few seconds, then engage
> again and it will start immediately.
Thanks Werner,
I very much appreciate your help! I figured that the light
would go out after 20 seconds with the engine not running but
the EI engaged. If it stays on until the engine is running
that explains it all. Thanks again.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Miniature switch current ratings-was |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for your comments. You mentioned that with these smaller switches I
>would need to use a relay for pitot heat, nav and landing lights, and other
>high current needs. I reread your chapter on switch ratings, and reread the
>spec sheet for the NKK 2100 series switches. They are rated for resistive
>loads only: 3 amps at 30 volts DC, 6 amps at 125 volts AC. With a life
>cycle of 25,000 electrical and 50,000 mechanical, I don't mind overloading
>them.
There's overload and then there's OVERLOAD. The spirit and intent
of the switch ratings article was to dispel the notion that a switch
is teetering on the edge of failure if you run say 10A through a 7A
switch.
> But the chapter on incandescent loads is worrisome. I may need to
>use some of the ugly automobile switches rated for 20 to 30 amps.
Incandescent inrush are high with respect to normal operating currents
but they are short lived . . . tens of milliseconds. Pitot heat
inrush is not as high but lasts 100-500 times longer due to long
time constant of the heavier mass to heat.
> Radio
>Shack, Pep Boys, Kragen Auto all have rocker type lighted switches with a
>round hole mount and 1/4 inch tabs. These use a large bar of copper
>internally to make contact. I took one apart last year, but can't do the
>nice photomicrographs that you do to show this. In any event, rather than
>use relays, I will use a switch with higher ratings for incandescent loads.
>
>Listers should know that there are a wide variety of high current switches
>with LED or illuminated actuators and 1/4 inch tabs. The highest quality
>unit, made by Cole-Hersee, is about $19 from West Marine, and is slightly
>larger than a standard toggle but with a plastic case. It is sealed, rated
>at 30 amps, and has a white LED tip. At the other end of the toggle
>spectrum, for about $4.00, is a #85909 Conduct-Tite switch from Kragen, also
>rated at 30 amps. It has a plastic toggle wrapped with an aluminum tube
>with a red LED at the tip. Looks nice, but I will carry spares.
>
>Fortunately, the landing lights are HID from Hella. I don't think the HID
>ballast will pull the same current spike as a cold filament, so I can use
>the nice NKK switch.
Sounds like you're doing the homework. I'm not trying to discourage
you . . . I just want you to have the benefit of all the data you
need to make a well considered decision.
Consider inrush limiters like those found here:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1047.pdf
>I wonder if it is possible to estimate the risk of a welded switch by the
>rise in resistance after a small numbers of cycles, say, 100. Perhaps this
>is another application for the milliohmmeter...
Here's a couple of articles on poor-man's milliohm measurement:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LowOhmsAdapter_3.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Practical_Low_Resistance_Measurements_A.pdf
I don't think I've ever seen a switch weld in service. Contact sticking
is generally a low force event that is easily overcome by operating forces
of the switch lever. Relays, especially small ones are another matter.
Their return spring forces are comparatively light. Contact resistance
in a switch is inversely related to current flowing in the switch. See:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/001008_3.pdf
and
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/basicswitches/technical/010172.pdf
Keep us informed of your progress!
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alt field switch amp rating |
>
>I'm picking an alternator field switch. I want to use a locking miniature
>toggle. I understand that I need a 5 amp breaker on the alt field. The
>switch I'd like to use doesn't give me a rating at 12 volts. It lists 3
>amps at 30 VDC. Is it enough?
yes.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
>
>
>Bob et al,
>
>When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
>weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
>terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
>
>Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
>sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
>stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
American standard threads for small machine screws come in
numbered sizes 000 (tiny) through 12 (just under 1/4"). See:
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/tools/screwinfo.html
So a numbered terminal without decimals or fractions are referring
to numbered thread sizes. Decimals and fractions are referring
to actual hole size in the terminal.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: care and feeding of batteries |
>
>On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >> Except that batteries do not recharge linearly. Constant voltage
> >> charging of lead-acid batteries puts most of the electrons back (up to
> >> about 85%) in short order but after that it takes a long time and you
> >> can't get the battery to suck more current without raising the voltage
> >> which will damage the battery. And since you probably haven't drawn
> >> more than a couple of AH out of the battery for starting, you already
> >> have more than 85% when you start recharging. Having a lot more
> >> alternator capacity will not speed charging.
> >
> > That's kind of picking at small straws . . . the nominal bus
> > voltage setting for most off-the-shelf regulators is already
> > "too-high".
>
>Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to
>ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent the
>battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a
>proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the
>battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall
>off too soon, before the battery is fully charged.
Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc
all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get
a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . .
>Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I posted
>for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting
>reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that
>flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that.
There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their
are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's
published data on battery performance is based on laboratory
tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can
try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field
but at some point, return on investment just isn't there
any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery
than it's worth.
> > If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
> > a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
> > airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
> > decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
> > it take to increase a battery's service life by say
> > 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
> > RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
> > field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
>
>I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse
>the hell out of their batteries.
Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery
manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing
batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general
utility sources.
> > Lots of lab data but we never see laboratory conditions
> > in the field. In the mean time, rules-of-thumb rule:
> > Do you fly lots of LONG flights? 14.2 or even 13.8
> > may be your magic, room-temp setting. Short flights
> > once a week? 14.2 to 14.6 might be helpful. But it's
> > almost a sure bet that few operators will be able to
> > tell the difference.
>
>Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have
>solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I
>have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator
>controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift
>from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank
>there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in
>my pocket.
Most battery manufacturers state that their products will
sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their
original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some
advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that
any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of
energy exchanged.
Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps
2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine.
Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not
a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect
lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual
a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at
battery charge while stopped at a light.
> > I've been proposing smart regulators to the GA
> > OEMs for about 20 years. To date, B&C is the only supplier
> > I'm aware of that offers a temperature compensated
> > regulator. But for 95% of the missions where an RV6
> > is useful, adding this feature ($75 plus cost of
> > installation) the return on investment is very
> > problematical.
>
>OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't
>provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra
>complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the
>Unison/Slick electronic magneto system.
Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have
"properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well
over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in
instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about
50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery
Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries
were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a
week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the
recycling pile a couple of years ago.
100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles
per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your
batteries down to less than 50% charge?
> > I've been working on a White Paper for several weeks
> > extolling the virtues of elegant charging system
> > design. However, in the last few paragraphs, I may
> > have to recommend that these features be considered ONLY
> > for new airplanes were the whole airplane has to fly
> > through the hoops of certification. The cost of upgrading
> > an old airplane are so high that there may be a negative
> > return on investment. I.e., certification stifles
> > improvements and may indeed reduce safety.
>
>It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for
>the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long
>way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit the
>output of the alternator to a safe level.
Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator
control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning.
This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah,
if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some
scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such
a device for a whole lot less than $225.
> > Our bizjet products see some wide variation of operating
> > temperatures and we would probably see improvement in battery
> > life by temperature compensating the recharge voltage.
> > The goal is to figure out a way to incorporate it with
> > a minimum number of drawing changes and test plans.
> > The engineering part is easy. Minimizing the paper-costs
> > will be the driver for a go/no-go decision.
> >
> > Wouldn't be surprised that it never happens.
>
>Just change the battery every year ...
That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting
500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about
a year.
Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most mechanical
devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive
to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult
to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of battery.
No two batteries are treated the same way.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Resetting CB in flight//Not in Russia |
>
>Bob seems to have world wide influence :-) (well its nice to think so).
>
>The October AOPA pilot mag page 98 has an article on a unique twin amphibian
>from Russia.
>ALL the CB are only accessable from outside, on the ground, as "the mfgr
>"does not want popped breakers to be reset in the air.
>
>Paul
We're seeing breakers fleeing the cockpit in droves. Eclipse has
no breakers in the cockpit. I'm working with several new designs
in the certified world that won't have breakers in the cockpit.
I'd like to think we had that much influence but good, simple-ideas
have a way of propagating themselves.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: 11654 Murphy |
>Bob
> Do you have a sourse for circuit breakers with Fast On terminals. B&C
> cannot supply. John Murphy
If you use breakers, go with the screws. You need to connect all the
breakers together with a common bus bar which will screw directly
onto the breaker terminals. One of the goals for using fuse blocks is to
reduce the system parts count. If you use fast-on breakers, then
the parts reduction gained with fast-ons at the breakers is lost
when you have to fabricate a bus bar, support it, insulate it
and install a jumper wire from the bus to the breaker with
more screws and two terminals, only one of which is a fast-on.
Really messy.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
<>
10/11/2004
Hello Kingsley, My apologies. Sometime in the distant past someone in our non metric
society came up with the brilliant idea of sizing machine screws by assigning
them numbers. If there is a consistent numerical relationship between these
numbers and the actual diameters of the screws I have not yet found it.
What I have done is create an Excel spread sheet with several different screw (and
bolt and rivet) diameters displayed for ready reference. I keep this spread
sheet under plastic in my shop and refer to it often.
I will send you a separate email direct with a copy of this spread sheet attached
(attachments will not go through the listing). The data on the spread sheet
will be in inches, not metric, but I know that you already have a sheet that
gives you that data conversion information.
OC
PS: If any other listers would like a copy of this Excel spread sheet just email
me direct and I will email one to you.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
Kingsley,
This is yet another system for sizing screws and it is used in general for
screws less than 1/4 inch in diameter. A No. 10 screw is the same as
3/16 screw. Look at the following tables for screw sizes.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/drillsizeconvert.html
http://www.csgnetwork.com/screwnummachtable.html
John, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals
>
> Bob et al,
>
> When I went to order some Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals on the
> weekend, I noted in the ACS catalogue that for example, 22-16 (Red)
> terminals have stud sizes of 4,6,8,10, 1/4
>
> Could you enlighten me as to what this seemingly convoluted way of
> sizing the holes means please ? Eg If I want a terminal for a 3/16"
> stud, what is the correct number equivalent ?
>
> Thank you in anticipation.
>
> Kingsley Hurst
> Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
I understand that theory says you have to have line of sight, but in
practice this is not the case. 20 miles out having descended 200' behind the
crest of a line of hills I can hear them clearly. Similarly at my home strip
I can talk to them from the ground with the intervening ground higher than
both locations. What is happening in practice? Is this a reflection?
Thanks, Steve.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>I understand that theory says you have to have line of sight, but in
>practice this is not the case. 20 miles out having descended 200' behind the
>crest of a line of hills I can hear them clearly. Similarly at my home strip
>I can talk to them from the ground with the intervening ground higher than
>both locations. What is happening in practice? Is this a reflection?
>
>Thanks, Steve.
Reflections, refractions, etc. The fact that you were so close
(20 miles) means that the direct, line of sight signal would
be very strong. It also means that once the direct signal is
shadowed, various sources of scattered signals, while many
dB below a direct signal, are still strong enough to be heard
by a good receiver.
Atmospherics can have a strong influence although they're
more rare. I was sitting on my front porch in Wichita one
morning as a cold front was moving across the area. I was
playing with a new hand held 2m transceiver and stumbled
across a repeater I'd not heard before. Turned out to
be 150 miles South in Oklahoma City. I had several conversations
with stations in Oklahoma City over the course of an hour
before the VHF ducting effects of the cold front faded.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Poor Man's Solder Sleeve? |
I looked at these a couple of years ago. They're not a PIDG style
splice . . . even if you close the insulation jacket down on the
wire outside the metal splicing sleeve, there's marginal support
of the wire outside the wire grip. May I suggest an alternative?
We know that solder sleeves have a wide following in aviation
and other venues for splicing wires.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/628.pdf
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/406%20Solder%20Sleeves.html
http://www.raychem.com/US/datasheets/REVISED32004/Sec_8/8-006_8-011_SolderSleeve.pdf
So, if we can get past the ol' saw about "make it mechanically secure and
then solder for electrical integrity", how about this?
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_4.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_5.jpg
This technique provides equivalent mechanical and electrical integrity
with your ordinary hand tools for a lot less cost than pe-fabricated
solder sleeves and splices. The only edge I can see for solder sleeves
is the sealant included in each end of the sleeve . . . but the
radio shack spice cited above isn't sealed either . . . nor is the
classic PIDG butt-splice. Everything "magic" happens at the crimp/soldered
joint. The next requirement is to support the joint to reduce flexure of
the stranding just outside the crimp/solder joint.
I'll suggest that the technique described meets our needs nicely
for a fraction of the cost. Bulk of the slice is small too.
However, if you're splicing a bundle of multiple wires, it's still
a good idea to stagger the splice locations along the bundle.
Bob . . .
>
>
>Gang:
>
>I found another type of crimp connector at Radio Shack about which I'd
>like to get some comments. RS calls them "Insulated Telephone Butt
>Connectors, for 22-26 gauge wire", PN 64-3073. Them come in packs of 24
>for about $1.50.
>
>These connectors are *much* smaller and lighter than PIDG for the same
>wire size, appear well matched to 22-gauge tefzel aircraft wire, but do
>not crimp the insulation. Instead, because of the good size match, the
>insulation receives some support from the insulator of the connector.
>RS sells a manual (non-ratcheting) crimp tool for this connector for
><$10.
>
>I have placed a picture of this connector, a crimp and the tool at
>
>http://members.cox.net/n481hy/connector/connector.jpg
>
>I like these because of their small size and weight, which makes for
>neat wiring, especially for wiring repairs. The crimps easily pass my
>"pull" test. But I would really like comments on aircraft applications
>please. If anyone knows of a ratcheting crimper for this connector (or
>die for my HX4), that would be great, too.
>
>Thanks,
>Andy Elliott
>N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
>http://members.cox.net/n481hy/
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Z-13 - latest version of 'simplification' |
>
>
>I've learned some more about Autocad (Intellicad actually) and figured out
>how to use the symbol "blocks", etc.
> - Wasn't able to eliminate the "alternator switch" and only use the CB.
>Reason: The OVM's relay coils are hooked up to the batt bus so it would
>suck the battery dry unless there's a switch to disconnect the coil after
>engine shutdown/overnight, etc. I don't want to use the CB after every
>shutdown - rather "use a switch for a switch - not a CB".
>
>I printed my dwg file as pdf and re-posted to my website. Hope to get some
>feedback form 'Lectric Bob and others.
> - Especially what I did to the Endurance Bus circuit. I don't like
>diodes - they fail, even though they are said to be "solid state, highly
>reliable". My experience is otherwise. Rather use a simple switch to
>select how the E-bus gets fed when the electrons hit the fan.
>
>http://www.datarecall.net/~dcarter/Builder's%20Log.html
A single pole, double throw e-bus switch was used in early versions
of drawings with an e-bus . . . but discarded because it's a single
point of failure for the e-bus power. The goal of an effective
e-bus implementation is DUAL, independent pathways for power to
the e-bus. Hence the diode drive normal path from the main bus
and a switched alternate path directly from the battery.
The 20AWG fuse-link in the e-bus alternate feed path is not necessary.
The diode across the starter push button is ineffective for catching
the spike generated by the starter engagement solenoid. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
Don't understand the diode across the battery contactor.
If the 35A PM alternator is your only alternator, there's
no reason not to wire per Figure Z-11 with an alternator
ov disconnect contactor per Z-24.
Does the alternator have a grounded center tap on its
AC output winding? If not, then there's no advantage in
disconnecting both ends of the output lead.
Lo Voltage warning is the same as for any other system.
You need a sensor/flasher module equal to
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.jpg
installed like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
or build your own like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
Last, please don't call this drawing "Figure Z-13".
It's a long way from that which I published. Once modified
in any way, it's whatever you want to call it but NOT
what I called it. It's possible that problems people
perceive with some OBAM aircraft are attributed to the
'Connection when in fact, they are concepts borrowed
from the 'Connection but modified in significant ways.
I don't perceive much "simplification" that doesn't
negate some feature that was a considered part of the
original architecture.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Potter & Brumfield W31 CBs |
Can anyone comment on the suitability of the W31 Switch/Circuit Breaker combination or possibly suggest another similar type unit? Are these suitable for aircraft use? Also, ETA makes some circuit breakers that plug into an automotive style blade-type fuse block ( http://www.etacbe.com/n_america/e-t-a/etacbeframeset.html go to "thermal" then the 1610 model), this may be a way to have the best of both worlds: circuit breaker operations simplicity as well as fuse block assembly simplicity. Any thoughts out there?
Dan Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: care and feeding of batteries |
On Oct 11, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to
>> ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent
>> the
>> battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a
>> proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the
>> battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall
>> off too soon, before the battery is fully charged.
>
> Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc
> all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get
> a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . .
OK, I posted all this a couple of months back but here is the table for
charge and float voltages recommended by Deka for their AGM batteries
at different temperatures:
Temp. Charge Float Temp.
F Optimum Maximum Optimum Maximum C
120 13.60 13.90 12.80 13.00 49
110 120 13.80 14.10 12.90 13.20 43 49
100 110 13.90 14.20 13.00 13.30 38 43
90 100 14.00 14.30 13.10 13.40 32 38
80 90 14.10 14.40 13.20 13.50 27 32
70 80 14.30 14.60 13.40 13.70 21 27
60 70 14.45 14.75 13.55 13.85 16 21
50 60 14.60 14.90 13.70 14.00 10 16
40 50 14.80 15.10 13.90 14.20 4 10
40 15.10 15.40 14.20 14.50 4
I find that the numbers for AGMs seem to fall into the ranges specified
for flooded cell batteries so I tend to use AGM numbers for FC
batteries too.
>> Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I
>> posted
>> for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting
>> reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that
>> flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that.
>
> There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their
> are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's
> published data on battery performance is based on laboratory
> tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can
> try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field
> but at some point, return on investment just isn't there
> any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery
> than it's worth.
That may be so. Today it is very easy to optimize the three-stage
charging regimen (constant-current, constant-voltage at the charge
voltage, step down to constant voltage at the float voltage when the
battery is charged) for batteries based on temperature. Three-stage
charge regulators for alternators that include temperature compensation
are pretty darned cheap. Some even include alternator load sensing or
alternator temperature sensing to prevent large loads from exceeding
the capacity of the alternator. And all at a fraction of the cost of
the B&C LR-3x.
>>> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
>>> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
>>> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
>>> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
>>> it take to increase a battery's service life by say
>>> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
>>> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
>>> field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
>>
>> I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse
>> the hell out of their batteries.
>
> Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery
> manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing
> batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general
> utility sources.
That is true. We usually don't pull much out of our starting batteries
before putting it back. But the proliferation of sealed batteries
makes it much more likely that we will damage the batteries by
overcharging if the charge controller does not step down to the proper
float voltage.
The only point I am making in all of this is that, with a single charge
voltage setting, even if temperature compensated, if you set the charge
voltage high enough to push juice back into the battery, you are going
to be overcharging that battery once it is fully charged. Once the
battery is fully charged, keeping the voltage above the float voltage
will stress the battery. Given the very poor and very consistent
experience I have had with AGM batteries failing in aircraft with one
voltage setting, I believe this to be a common problem in aircraft.
>> Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have
>> solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I
>> have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator
>> controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift
>> from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank
>> there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in
>> my pocket.
>
> Most battery manufacturers state that their products will
> sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their
> original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some
> advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that
> any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of
> energy exchanged.
I agree.
> Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps
> 2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine.
> Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not
> a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect
> lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual
> a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at
> battery charge while stopped at a light.
Right. But I still hold that batteries need not fail in 18 months if
properly treated. And that has been my experience with AGM batteries
in certified aircraft use.
>> OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't
>> provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra
>> complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the
>> Unison/Slick electronic magneto system.
>
> Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have
> "properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well
> over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in
> instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about
> 50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery
> Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries
> were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a
> week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the
> recycling pile a couple of years ago.
>
> 100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles
> per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your
> batteries down to less than 50% charge?
On my boat? My normal daily cycle is about 25%-30% discharge. Every
couple of months I pull them down to about 70% discharge to check that
they are still delivering normal capacity. Deka claims that I should
see 600 cycles to 80% discharge and 2100 cycles at 25% discharge. So I
should still see something close to a 5 year life at these rates.
>> It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for
>> the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long
>> way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit
>> the
>> output of the alternator to a safe level.
>
> Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator
> control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning.
> This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah,
> if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some
> scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such
> a device for a whole lot less than $225.
And the three-stage regulators are a charge control system. What's in
a name? OTOH, once you put in the microprocessor you can combine some
of the functions to reduce parts count.
>> Just change the battery every year ...
>
> That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting
> 500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about
> a year.
>
> Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most
> mechanical
> devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive
> to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult
> to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of
> battery.
> No two batteries are treated the same way.
It all depends on what you want. As the man says, "you pays yer money
and you takes yer choice."
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Solder Sleeve? |
>
>
>I looked at these a couple of years ago. They're not a PIDG style
>splice . . . even if you close the insulation jacket down on the
>wire outside the metal splicing sleeve, there's marginal support
>of the wire outside the wire grip. May I suggest an alternative?
>
>We know that solder sleeves have a wide following in aviation
>and other venues for splicing wires.
>
>http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/628.pdf
>
>http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/406%20Solder%20Sleeves.html
>
>http://www.raychem.com/US/datasheets/REVISED32004/Sec_8/8-006_8-011_SolderSleeve.pdf
>
>So, if we can get past the ol' saw about "make it mechanically secure and
>then solder for electrical integrity", how about this?
I've formalized the solder sleeve photos into a shop notes
on the website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Potter & Brumfield W31 CBs |
>
>Can anyone comment on the suitability of the W31 Switch/Circuit Breaker
>combination or possibly suggest another similar type unit? Are these
>suitable for aircraft use?
About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying
in Bonanzas and Barons.
>Also, ETA makes some circuit breakers that plug into an automotive style
>blade-type fuse block (
>http://www.etacbe.com/n_america/e-t-a/etacbeframeset.html go to
>"thermal" then the 1610 model), this may be a way to have the best of both
>worlds: circuit breaker operations simplicity as well as fuse block
>assembly simplicity.
Breakers are more complicated that fuses. Even the least
expensive fuse will perform as designed. If you want to go
the fuseblock route, I'd recommend you use fuses. If you
want to go with breakers. The W31 is an okay breaker.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
To all six who "enlightened" me re the sizing convention of Ring Tongue
Terminals.
Thank you gents, much appreciated. I looked on the Net but couldn't
find what I wanted to know.
Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't
help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained
by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at
years ago.
Cheers all
Kingsley Hurst in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | voltage regulators b&c |
From: | james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com |
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 03:07:15 AM
Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
I need to get it upgraded
James K Glindemann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
>
>Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
>LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
>I need to get it upgraded
>
>
>James K Glindemann
The LS1 was the very first design that was built in a very
small quantity before we decided that the design needed to
be changed. I recommend you acquire a new one.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Vinyl Insulated Ring Tongue Terminals |
On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:40 AM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> Do not want to start an argument about units of measurement but I can't
> help feeling how much simpler life could be if we were not constrained
> by the momentum of all these weird and wonderful conventions arrived at
> years ago.
As I recall, bolt sizes and thread pitches were more consistent in the
"English Standard" world than they are in the metric world. One could
get by with a much smaller stock of fasteners. But even given that, I
agree that having things spec'd by their size rather than some
seemingly ambiguous convention is a win.
If we only lived in a perfect world.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Alternator Fuse Location |
By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor connection
and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to the main
buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I like it because
it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11 doesn't protect the
lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But maybe I don't understand
the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator output shouldn't be connected
to the main buss without a fuse in between so I thought I'd ask.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
From: | james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com |
01, 2004) at 10/12/2004 04:47:06 PM
Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor
component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a
complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft
electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of
performing the modifications if it is possible.
I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it
very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you
and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes
things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline
type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world.
James K Glindemann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: voltage regulators b&c |
>
>Thank you for the reply Bob. Can you tell me if this was just minor
>component changes that could be incorporated onto the existing board or a
>complete redesign of the circuit.. I am in the avionics/ aircraft
>electrical game ( mostly helicopter maintenance ) and am quite capable of
>performing the modifications if it is possible.
It was a major re-design. LR1 was the first product that flew
on about two dozen OBAM aircraft and Voyager for the closed-circuit
shakedown flight. We discovered some things from field experience
that we didn't like and the LR-2 replaced the LR-1. LR-2 regulators
went around the world. Of course, that was all a long time ago
and the LR3 is up to revision C or so.
I don't even recall now what the differences were. B&C may have
drawings that go back that far. You can always ask.
>I have been receiving this list on and off for many years now and find it
>very interesting and informative. I mostly like the low cost methods you
>and others have highlighted to achieve rather elegant results. Sometimes
>things can be done better using methods found in the military or airline
>type aircraft, but the cost is just out of this world.
Most of what passes for certified doesn't add much value over
and above modern components that evolve while certified components
are frozen in time due to cost of making any changes . . . even
good ones. OBAM aircraft are the future of small GA aircraft.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator Fuse Location |
>
>By wiring one end of my 40 amp fuse to the battery cable starter contactor
>connection and the other end to both the alternator lead and the lead to
>the main buss, I don't have exactly what is depicted in Z-11, however I
>like it because it protects both the 8AWG wires from shorts whereas Z-11
>doesn't protect the lead from the battery contactor to the main buss. But
>maybe I don't understand the purpose of this fuse and maybe the alternator
>output shouldn't be connected to the main buss without a fuse in between
>so I thought I'd ask.
You don't want to use one fuse to "protect" both leads. A fault
in the alternator takes down your main bus normal feed path too.
Recommend you wire as depicted.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob.
I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40 radio.
I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be no
longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave me
conflicting or incomplete information.
The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit key
line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line labeled
"avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same "ground"
used to power the 403mc.
The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio panel.
There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic audio, mic
ground, and com mic key.
The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to figure out.
The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw it up
and have to re-do it.
What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7)
connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not connecting any
jacks directly to the SL-40?
Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"? In this
case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all be
connected together.
------
Also. The 403mc manual says that you can insulate the headphone jacks (which
I intend to do) and run the return wires back to the intercom. It then goes
on to say "do not use the same ground wire for the headphone and microphone
jacks." The microphone jacks return to pin 13 on the 403mc (mic return), but
where do the headphone jack returns go? Pin 1, the same ground that's used to
power the intercom?
The 403mc manual says to use shielded wire on all jacks. However, it doesn't
say where to connect the sheild. Do I use the shield as the return line and
connect both ends, or do I use a separate wire for the returns and connect
only one end of the shield to a chassis or something?
I'm hoping to avoid the ground loop problem and do this thing right the first
time.
Thanks.
-Geoff
RV-8
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the dimmer
circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite rings and
avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming
functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest in
sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the Digitrak's
display to dim.
I could always rig up a separate dimmer just for the Digitrak, which I would
keep high during the day, low at night...but I'd rather not do that if I can
"automate" the inversion somehow.
I'm sure the answer is simple (I hope), but can the electronics gurus on
this list enlighten me as to how I can rig up something like this?
In case it's a factor, I don't currently have a panel lights switch, they're
on the dimmer's lowest setting all the time (keep warm).
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Power Consumption II |
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights 7.4 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 15.95 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor' 17.235 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1.75
amps
I realize the fudge factor is ridiculously high....was working off memory when
I wrote the original e-mail (besides a factor of safety is good when faced with
a lack of knowledge), but one should still get the points: #1 - I'm looking
for accurateavg power consumption figures formy panel - can anyone help? #2 -
Is the 20 amps - 17, 18 or 19 amps a sufficient margin of safety?
One last point: I don't PLAN on flying at night.....once in a whilethe first or
last30 minutes of a trip.....(anyone can see that leaving the position lights
off puts me well below 20 amps).....but I'd like to know if the electrical system
can handle night flight withouta heavy, front mounted, belt driven alternator.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: SL-40 and 403mc |
On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Geoff Evans wrote:
>
>
> Bob.
>
> I'm trying to connect a Flightcom 403mc intercom to a Garmin AT SL-40
> radio.
>
> I've read the archives, but the links to the 403mc drawings seem to be
> no
> longer active. I've also spoken with both manufacturers, and they gave
> me
> conflicting or incomplete information.
>
> The 403mc schematic shows 4 wires going to a generic radio: transmit
> key
> line, receive audio, transmit audio, and avionics ground. The line
> labeled
> "avionics ground" comes off pin 1 of the 403mc, which is the same
> "ground"
> used to power the 403mc.
>
> The closest SL-40 schematic shows connecting the SL-40 to an audio
> panel.
> There are 5 connections here: com aduio in, audio ground, com mic
> audio, mic
> ground, and com mic key.
>
> The three connections for transmit, receive, and key are easy to
> figure out.
> The problem I'm having is with the grounds, and I don't want to screw
> it up
> and have to re-do it.
>
> What do I do with the audio ground (pin 13) and mic ground (pin 7)
> connections on the SL-40? Do I leave them open, since I'm not
> connecting any
> jacks directly to the SL-40?
>
> Or do I tie them together and connect them to the "avionics ground"?
> In this
> case, pins 13, 7, and 9 of the SL-40 and pin 1 of the 403mc would all
> be
> connected together.
Tie the grounds together at the radio. The intercom ground will tie to
The SL-40's audio ground, mic ground, and power ground.
As for your headphone and microphone jacks on the intercom, use the
shields as ground and tie them together at a single point at the
intercom. Do insulate the jacks from the airframe (important for the
mic, less so for the headphones). If you do ground the headphone jacks
to the airframe break the shield at the jack so as to prevent a
possible ground loop.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: inverse dimmer |
On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
> I just installed a Digitrak autopilot in my RV-7, and I wired the
> dimmer
> circuit to my solid state dimmer that feeds the rest of my Nulite
> rings and
> avionics lighting. Problem is, I really want "inverse" dimming
> functionality for the Digitrak...in that I want the display brightest
> in
> sunlight, and at night as I turn up my panel lights I want the
> Digitrak's
> display to dim.
Actually, you want the Digitrak's light to be bright in sunlight and
then dim along with the other panel lights when they are on.
If you use a DPDT switch for your panel lighting you can use the other
pole to switch power to the display light in the Digitrak when the
other lights are switched off. Use a diode from the dimmer circuit to
the digitrak panel light so that when you turn the panel lights off the
current to the digitrak's display lighting doesn't flow back into your
panel lighting circuit.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Avg Power Consumption III |
Bob et al,
Please let me clarify that last post: I am very interested in putting a 20 amp
alternator in my plane 'cuz of the weight CG advantages offered. Iwas concerned
that 20 ampsmight not be sufficient outputbut now Ihavesome additional data,
(indirectly from this list - thanks!), that my steady state electrical load
(see below)will be about 16 amps with position lights strobes on.
Seeing as how I don't plan on using position lights strobes together very often
I am installing a 14 AH battery I feel comfortable with the installation.......unless
someone can point out a major flaw in my reasoning......or unless Bob
would strongly recommend against it.
How about sharing the load analysis data you have so far? I'm
skeptical of the 19A figure you have now but I'd be pleased to
be shown wrong.
Bob . . .
As I don't have all accurate figures yet, 19 amps was my semi-educated guess.(Accurate
figures is what I'm really in search of right now) Here's how I came up
with it (I assumed cruise flight is what condition I should design for....please
tell me if otherwise):
Accurate figures (from manufacturer /or tag/literaturew/equipment):
Whelen Position Lights5 amps
Whelen Strobe Power Supply 4.0 amps
Garmin GPS/Comm (not x-mitting voice) 1.35 amps
King KT76A Transponder 1.5 amps *
Light Speed Elect. Ign 1.2 amps
Apple I-Pod music input 0.5 amps
Sub-total 13.45 amps
* = Max figure. Honeywell/King wont give avg value.
Semi-Accurate figures (from load analysis of a Europa HB-YK1....a sheet I got off
the list):
Intercom0.16 amps
Turn Coordinator 0.125 amps
Battery Contactor1.0 amps
Sub-total1.285 amps
Total w/o 'Fudge Factor'~15 amps
'Fudge-Factor' figures (Guessed what I hope is high 'cuz I don't have anything
to go on):
Engine Instruments, Instrument Lights, Low Voltage Warning, Low Fuel Warning.....1
amp
Ithink this fudge factor is stillpretty high....but still thinka bigfactor of safety
is good when faced with a lack of knowledge.
Again, any input will be greatly appreciated. I wont bug the list aboutthis topic
again
Thanks,
Grant
Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
Bob,
I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard
back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP
construction)
Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . .
.
Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and
ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these
two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at
some time.
Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these
little things that I get hung up on.
Thank you
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Subject: | Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a
16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss with
a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from
switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog
that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection is
turned on.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
>
> Bob,
>
> I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard
> back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP
> construction)
>
> Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . .
> .
>
> Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and
> ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these
> two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at
> some time.
>
> Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these
> little things that I get hung up on.
>
> Thank you
>
> Kingsley Hurst
> Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Subject: | Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
Larry,
I think Kingsley asked for a detachable connection for the pump. On devices
I have to remove very seldom I would use knife splices maybe with a shrink
tube over it. However, I did my facet pump (which has very short cables)
with a but splice and might change them if I ever have to replace them with
a knife splice.
Have a look at
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?12X358218#s891rb or
http://www.steinair.com/terminals.htm or
http://www.edmo.com/s2/s2-2.asp
and scroll down.
Werner
I've mine hooked up on the E-bus, however mine is a high wing with the pump
only necessary very seldom (when the mechanical would fail).
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
>
> Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a
> 16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss
with
> a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from
> switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog
> that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection
is
> turned on.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump
>
>
>
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard
> > back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP
> > construction)
> >
> > Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . .
> > .
> >
> > Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and
> > ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these
> > two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at
> > some time.
> >
> > Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these
> > little things that I get hung up on.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Kingsley Hurst
> > Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have to connect up a Facet solid state fuel pump as the standard
>back-up to the engine driven mechanical fuel pump in my Europa (FRP
>construction)
>
>Theoretically, I should probably never have to remove it again but . . .
>.
>
>Since the pump has two wires which have to be connected to power and
>ground respectively, what method would you prefer I use to make these
>two connections bearing in mind that it may have to be disconnected at
>some time.
>
>Sorry to bore the list with trivia like this but it seems to be these
>little things that I get hung up on.
I'd recommend knife splices with heat shrink over them.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
>
>
>Since no one else has answered this: Using Bob's three buss system, run a
>16 or 18awg power feed (red if you have it) wire from the battery buss with
>a 10A fuse to a switch on your panel. Run black 16/18awg ground wire from
>switch to your firewall ground. Label both ends of each wire and catalog
>that in your wiring book. When you turn the switch on/up, the connection is
>turned on.
Why such fat wire and fuse? These critters draw about 3A peak and
less than 1A average. 22AWG on a 5A fuse would be fine.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Hedding" <tim(at)bandc.info> |
James,
I think Bob may be mistaking the LR1 for the LS1. The LR1 is a very early
regulator and should be upgraded. However, the LS1 and LS1A are very close
designs. Basically the components in the input end of the LS1A have higher
voltage ratings than the components in the input end of the LS1. When the
standby version of the LS1 (the SB1B-28) was certified in the same system as
a competitor's primary voltage regulator, it was found that the primary
system's over-voltage protection could allow the bus voltage to exceed the
voltage rating of the standby regulator's input component voltage ratings
and possibly damage the standby regulator. Not a good thing. So, the voltage
rating of the input components was increased to withstand any probable
primary system over-voltage. The LS1A was merely upgraded to the higher
voltage rating components so that we did not have to stock each of these
parts in two different voltage ratings.
This is probably way too much explanation to simply tell you that there is
no reason to replace the LS1 you have.
Tim Hedding, E.E. at B&C
Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
I need to get it upgraded
James K Glindemann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | wingtip antenna SWR field data |
I have now completed the initial fabrication and set-up of a copper-foil wingtip
comm antenna patterned after the design in the Aeroelectric Connection. The
overall dimensions are similar to the ones in the book, except that I made most
of the radiating element rather fat, 1.5 to 2 inches in width (3 or 4 parallel
strips of the copper foil tape, tack-soldered together at points along their
adjoining edges. The gamma network uses a small air-variable capacitor which
is mounted so as to be field-adjustable via a screwdriver inserted through
a small hole in the underside of the wingtip. The foil itself is applied to the
aft portion of the interior undersurface of the conventional (not "sheared")
Van's wingtip. Coax feed is via RG-400 with a service disconnect at the outboard
wing rib. Nav light wiring is dressed as far forward in the wingtip as
possible to minimize interaction with the antenna.
I learned some interesting things from comparing antenna analyzer measurements
at the bench and on the plane, both in flight and on the ground. To summarize,
the antenna as prorotyped is very broadband, with a W-shaped VSWR curve (two
minima), and SWR measurements obtained in flight (far away from any nearby detuning
objects or ground) were NOT different enough from ground-based measurements
to justify airborne tweaking of the design. This is nice to know, since
adjustments are only possible and measurements so much easier to obtain on the
ground!
VSWR values obtained in flight are as follows:
114 MHz - 1.6
118 MHz - 1.3
123 MHz - 1.7
127 MHz - 1.2
134 MHz - 1.7
138 MHz - 1.5
141 MHz - 2.5
143 MHz - 3.0
As I said, this is one very broadband antenna! I hope this is due to its shape
factor and not to low Q! The bimodal SWR curve shape probably results from the
antenna itself being resonant at a different sweet spot than the gamma matching
network is. Reactance readings vary wildly across the tuning range as the
analyzer signal is swept across the band. The counterpoise section length does
influence the performance of the antenna on the bench, as I alluded in an
earlier post. Some of the SWR curve's strange shape might reflect resonances on
the counterpoise section or the nav light wiring.
Basic antenna shape:
______ Date: | Oct 13, 2004 |
Subject: | VOR Antenna Challenged |
I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy.
Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper
tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or
aft bending of the antennas for VOR's?
This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied
antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most
anything as long as I get the right specs.
Signed:
Antenna Challenged.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: VOR Antenna Challenged |
Check out Kent Paser's book - "Speed with Economy" . It has the info you're
looking for. I have a copy and it's got loads of fun stuff.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOR Antenna Challenged
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy.
> Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper
> tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward
or
> aft bending of the antennas for VOR's?
> This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied
> antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most
> anything as long as I get the right specs.
>
> Signed:
> Antenna Challenged.
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR1/LS1 Regulators by B&C |
Opps! Put my foot into that one didn't I. Yes the LS1 and LR1 are
entirely different critters. Thanks for bailing me out Tim!
Bob . . .
>
>
>James,
>
>I think Bob may be mistaking the LR1 for the LS1. The LR1 is a very early
>regulator and should be upgraded. However, the LS1 and LS1A are very close
>designs. Basically the components in the input end of the LS1A have higher
>voltage ratings than the components in the input end of the LS1. When the
>standby version of the LS1 (the SB1B-28) was certified in the same system as
>a competitor's primary voltage regulator, it was found that the primary
>system's over-voltage protection could allow the bus voltage to exceed the
>voltage rating of the standby regulator's input component voltage ratings
>and possibly damage the standby regulator. Not a good thing. So, the voltage
>rating of the input components was increased to withstand any probable
>primary system over-voltage. The LS1A was merely upgraded to the higher
>voltage rating components so that we did not have to stock each of these
>parts in two different voltage ratings.
>
>This is probably way too much explanation to simply tell you that there is
>no reason to replace the LS1 you have.
>
>Tim Hedding, E.E. at B&C
>
>
>Can anybody tell me the difference between the B & C regulators P/N 's
>LS1 and LS1A? . B&C no longer list LS1, but I own one and am wondering if
>I need to get it upgraded
>
>
>James K Glindemann
>
>
>---
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: LR1/LS1 Regulators by B&C |
From: | james.k.glindemann(at)exxonmobil.com |
01, 2004) at 10/13/2004 07:23:39 PM
Thank you Bob and Tim, the history and detail were just what I wanted.
James K Glindemann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Potter and Brumfield |
"About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying
in Bonanzas and Barons."
Thanks Bob. Are the W31s used in the other aircraft used as switches
or just as CBs with other switches in series?
> Dan Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
Subject: | Connecting Facet Fuel Pump |
Bob, Larry and Werner
Thank you for your replies. It WAS the detachable connection I wanted
to sort out so heat shrink covered knife splices it is.
Regards
Kingsley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
An interesting aside to Bob's notes and descriptions of the crimpers
supplied by B&C as referenced in the link below. Bob's references to the
B&C crimpers say that the two sides of the dies are the same and it
matters not which way the terminals go into the tool. I took delivery
of an RCT-1 crimp tool from B&C last week and in the tool supplied to
me, the two sides of the die are NOT the same. The side of the tool
intended for the insulation grip has a diamond shape to it while the
wire attachment side has an oval shape. The results obtained with this
tool as currently supplied by B&C are almost identical to the $high$
tool shown in Bob's article below. The end view from the insulation grip
end has a nicely formed diamond pattern just as shown in Bob's
photograph depicting the results with the $high$ tool. It may be that
the "el-cheapo" manufacturers are catching on and copying more detail
from the $high$ tools than in the past.
Bob McC
william mills wrote:
>
>Guy -
>
>Here's Bob's shop notes comparing two crimpers:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
>
>Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: VOR Antenna Challenged |
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy.
>Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper
>tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or
>aft bending of the antennas for VOR's?
>This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied
>antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most
>anything as long as I get the right specs.
I cringe every time I see or hear of someone wanting to
glue stuff to the inside of a perfectly good canopy . . .
but TECHNICALLY, what you propose will function.
Departure from a straight line dipole is more for convenience/
appearances than anything else. You have to test the antenna
at an instrumented antenna range to measure the effects on
performance.
If it were MY hand held, I'd provide a means for connecting
it to the existing COM antenna as a back up to the ship's
regulator com radio -OR- install a dedicated COM antenna for
the hand held . . . and keep polishing that canopy for the
ultimate clarity of vision and aura of craftsmanship.
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Potter and Brumfield |
>
>"About 80,000 W31 breakers or their ancestors are flying
> in Bonanzas and Barons."
>
>Thanks Bob. Are the W31s used in the other aircraft used as switches
>or just as CBs with other switches in series?
W31 are a whole lot more expensive than a simple switch. The only
rational thought process for using them would be to eliminate the
need for another breaker on the bus . . . but of course, using
these switches forces you to have two busses - one for the breakers
that don't "switch" and one for the switches that "break"
Are you planning a breaker panel for non-switched functions?
Bob . . .
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: care and feeding of batteries |
On Oct 11, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Actually, in my experience, the setting on aircraft VRs is too low to
>> ensure a proper full charge in reasonable time (probably to prevent
>> the
>> battery from self-destructing on a long flight) but too high for a
>> proper float (maintenance) charge. So you are never going to get the
>> battery to accept a full charge in short order. The current will fall
>> off too soon, before the battery is fully charged.
>
> Too low, full charge, reasonable, too high, short order, etc
> all non quantified. Not very helpful if we're trying to get
> a handle on selection, care and feeding of batteries . . .
OK, I posted all this a couple of months back but here is the table for
charge and float voltages recommended by Deka for their AGM batteries
at different temperatures:
Temp. Charge Float Temp.
F Optimum Maximum Optimum Maximum C
120 13.60 13.90 12.80 13.00 49
110 120 13.80 14.10 12.90 13.20 43 49
100 110 13.90 14.20 13.00 13.30 38 43
90 100 14.00 14.30 13.10 13.40 32 38
80 90 14.10 14.40 13.20 13.50 27 32
70 80 14.30 14.60 13.40 13.70 21 27
60 70 14.45 14.75 13.55 13.85 16 21
50 60 14.60 14.90 13.70 14.00 10 16
40 50 14.80 15.10 13.90 14.20 4 10
40 15.10 15.40 14.20 14.50 4
I find that the numbers for AGMs seem to fall into the ranges specified
for flooded cell batteries so I tend to use AGM numbers for FC
batteries too.
>> Did you see the voltage-vs-temperature charge and float tables I
>> posted
>> for Deka's AGM and Gel-Cell batteries? It makes for interesting
>> reading. Given that the chemistry for AGMs is very much like that
>> flooded-cell batteries you can get an idea from that.
>
> There are as many "optimized" charging philosophies as their
> are manufacturers of batteries . . . Every manufacturer's
> published data on battery performance is based on laboratory
> tests and assumes optimized charging conditions. We can
> try real hard to optimize those conditions in the field
> but at some point, return on investment just isn't there
> any more. You spend more $time$ caring for the battery
> than it's worth.
That may be so. Today it is very easy to optimize the three-stage
charging regimen (constant-current, constant-voltage at the charge
voltage, step down to constant voltage at the float voltage when the
battery is charged) for batteries based on temperature. Three-stage
charge regulators for alternators that include temperature compensation
are pretty darned cheap. Some even include alternator load sensing or
alternator temperature sensing to prevent large loads from exceeding
the capacity of the alternator. And all at a fraction of the cost of
the B&C LR-3x.
>>> If one has the patience, motivation, budget -AND-
>>> a friendly microprocessor, it's easy to pamper the
>>> airplane's battery. It gets down to return-on-investment
>>> decisions that ask the question, "How much $time$ does
>>> it take to increase a battery's service life by say
>>> 10 percent?" I'm trying to answer that question for
>>> RAC right now. As you might guess, there's no real
>>> field data from which one might draw a conclusion.
>>
>> I think you need to look in the Marine and RV markets where they abuse
>> the hell out of their batteries.
>
> Yes, but those are ALL deep cycle applications. Most battery
> manufacturer's offer variations on a theme for optimizing
> batteries intended for deep cycle motive power and/or general
> utility sources.
That is true. We usually don't pull much out of our starting batteries
before putting it back. But the proliferation of sealed batteries
makes it much more likely that we will damage the batteries by
overcharging if the charge controller does not step down to the proper
float voltage.
The only point I am making in all of this is that, with a single charge
voltage setting, even if temperature compensated, if you set the charge
voltage high enough to push juice back into the battery, you are going
to be overcharging that battery once it is fully charged. Once the
battery is fully charged, keeping the voltage above the float voltage
will stress the battery. Given the very poor and very consistent
experience I have had with AGM batteries failing in aircraft with one
voltage setting, I believe this to be a common problem in aircraft.
>> Good point. It does need to be made automatic. On my boat I have
>> solved the problem with an energy monitor that keeps track of the AH I
>> have pulled out of the battery and also controls the alternator
>> controller to temperature compensate the charge process and to shift
>> from charge to float when the battery is full. OTOH, my battery bank
>> there costs $1500 so keeping it alive for 5+ years means real money in
>> my pocket.
>
> Most battery manufacturers state that their products will
> sustain 100 or so deep cycles and still maintain 80% of their
> original capacity . . . in the laboratory at least. Some
> advertise more, some a little less. Bottom line is that
> any battery is life limited by the number of watt-seconds of
> energy exchanged.
I agree.
> Vehicular batteries are called upon to deliver perhaps
> 2% to crank a piston engine and 10% to start a turbine.
> Further, for automobiles, the battery's capacity is not
> a driving issue either. It's not unreasonable to expect
> lots of years of service as long as you don't have dual
> a/c blower motors that are constantly pecking away at
> battery charge while stopped at a light.
Right. But I still hold that batteries need not fail in 18 months if
properly treated.
>> OTOH, there is no reason that a properly cared-for battery shouldn't
>> provide 90% capacity at 5 years. If viewed that way the extra
>> complexity starts to look like break-even. Hey, guys are buying the
>> Unison/Slick electronic magneto system.
>
> Again, not enough data to support the premise. I have
> "properly cared for" batteries in my shop that are well
> over 5 years old. They're deep cycle batteries used in
> instrumentation systems. Each one has been used to about
> 50% capacity perhaps a dozen times. They sit on Battery
> Tenders the rest of the time. If those batteries
> were in constant use . . . say discharged to 50% twice a
> week . . . I can guarantee that they'd be sent to the
> recycling pile a couple of years ago.
>
> 100 deep discharge cycles spread over 5 years is 20 cycles
> per year. One every two weeks. How often do you pull your
> batteries down to less than 50% charge?
On my boat? My normal daily cycle is about 25%-30% discharge. Every
couple of months I pull them down to about 70% discharge to check that
they are still delivering normal capacity. Deka claims that I should
see 600 cycles to 80% discharge and 2100 cycles at 25% discharge. So I
should still see something close to a 5 year life at these rates.
>> It shouldn't be all that difficult. Three-stage charge regulators for
>> the marine and RV markets are less expensive then the B&C VR by a long
>> way. Some even include current and/or temperature sensing to limit
>> the
>> output of the alternator to a safe level.
>
> Keep in mind that the B&C "regulator" is an alternator
> control system. It includes ov protection and low voltage warning.
> This works out to three gizmos in one box for $75/gizmo. Yeah,
> if the only task was to regulate the voltage based on some
> scheme designed to enhance battery life, we could produce such
> a device for a whole lot less than $225.
And the three-stage regulators are a charge control system. What's in
a name? OTOH, once you put in the microprocessor you can combine some
of the functions to reduce parts count.
>> Just change the battery every year ...
>
> That's essentially what happens. Most operators are getting
> 500 hours out of a battery before it drops below 80% . . . about
> a year.
>
> Batteries are more like house plants than fuel pumps. Most
> mechanical
> devices are life limited on real usage. Batteries are sensitive
> to discharge, charge and storage variables that make it difficult
> to compare performance between brands, styles and sizes of
> battery.
> No two batteries are treated the same way.
It all depends on what you want. As the man says, "you pays yer money
and you takes yer choice."
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
Didn't know they had a new tool. I presume that it comes packaged
with some kind of instructions that make note of proper terminal positioning
in the un-symetical dies.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to get Todd to send me one to look at.
Bob . . .
>
>
>
>An interesting aside to Bob's notes and descriptions of the crimpers
>supplied by B&C as referenced in the link below. Bob's references to the
>B&C crimpers say that the two sides of the dies are the same and it
>matters not which way the terminals go into the tool. I took delivery
>of an RCT-1 crimp tool from B&C last week and in the tool supplied to
>me, the two sides of the die are NOT the same. The side of the tool
>intended for the insulation grip has a diamond shape to it while the
>wire attachment side has an oval shape. The results obtained with this
>tool as currently supplied by B&C are almost identical to the $high$
>tool shown in Bob's article below. The end view from the insulation grip
>end has a nicely formed diamond pattern just as shown in Bob's
>photograph depicting the results with the $high$ tool. It may be that
>the "el-cheapo" manufacturers are catching on and copying more detail
>from the $high$ tools than in the past.
>
>Bob McC
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Fordham" <consult(at)island.net> |
Subject: | Fuel Capacitance Plates |
Hi
I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space between the
ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is greater than for the
RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was designed for. If I remember rightly
capacitance value is a function of dielectric and distance between plates, would
that extra distance (6 inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument
reading? Any thoughts much appreciated.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hi Chris,
What you said is correct - distance between the plates is one of the
factors determining capacitance - the others being plate area and
dielectric properties of the insulator seperating the plates.
Correct my if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that there are two probes,
wired in parallel in each RV-4 wing - one at the inner rib and one at the
outer rib. Each probe consists of a plate mounted on the end rib using
insulating spacers. If so, the distance between the inner rib and the outer
rib will have no impact on the function of the circuit. The critical
dimension
is how far from the plate is mounted from the end rib.
Having a probe at each end of the tank just gives you the capability to
measure the fuel level more accurately at both nearly empty and nearly
full - the dihedral of the wing means that the inboard probe is fully
submerged
until a fair amount of gas is burned off, and the outboard probe reads fully
dry even with a usable amount of fuel still in the tank. Having two probes
in parallel also doubles the effective capacitance - probably makes the
circuit more robust.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Matt Prather
C150 N714BK, VE N34RD
>
>
> Hi
> I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space
> between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is
> greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was
> designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of
> dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6
> inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any
> thoughts much appreciated.
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates |
On Oct 14, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Chris Fordham wrote:
>
>
> Hi
> I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space
> between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is
> greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was
> designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of
> dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6
> inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any
> thoughts much appreciated.
Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same
spacing and surface area.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
>On Oct 14, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Chris Fordham wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hi
>> I'm presently building fuel tanks for a Harmon Rocket, the space
>>between the ribs in the tank where I attach the capacitance plates is
>>greater than for the RV-4 tanks which the capacitance unit was
>>designed for. If I remember rightly capacitance value is a function of
>>dielectric and distance between plates, would that extra distance (6
>>inches or so) have much of an impact on the instument reading? Any
>>thoughts much appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same
>spacing and surface area.
>
>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
>brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
>+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
>There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
>citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
>
>
The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse
proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter
directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how
many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the same
surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be
the same..
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Subject: | Fuel Capacitance Plates |
You are going to calibrate the fuel level indicators as one of the last
steps before the first flight, so it would seem to me that the size and
distance between the plates will be compensated for in the calibration
process.
Terry
RV-8A with capacitance gauges, wiring
>
The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse
proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter
directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how
many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the same
surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be
the same..
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Lloyd <brianl(at)lloyd.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Capacitance Plates |
On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:55 PM, Jerzy Krasinski wrote:
>> Try making the plates longer and narrower so that they have the same
>> spacing and surface area.
> The capacitance is proportional to the surface area and inverse
> proportional to the distance between the plates.. It does not matter
> directly how many inches are added to the distance. What matters is how
> many % is the increase of the distance. But if your plates have the
> same
> surface to distance ratio as in the original, the capacitance will be
> the same..
That was my point and the reason for saying that the surface area and
spacing should be the same. That would eliminate the need to
re-calibrate the indicator.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VOR Antenna Challenged |
Oh no, gluing nothing to the canopy. I would be using copper tape. The hand
held works great in COM mode its the VOR that has no distance.
>
>
>
> ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >I want to put a VOR antenna on the inside back portion of my RV-8a canopy.
> >Dont even know if this will work or not but want to try. Can I use copper
> >tape on the inside of the canopy to do this? Also whats with the forward or
> >aft bending of the antennas for VOR's?
> >This antenna will be used for my hand held Radio/VOR because the supplied
> >antenna sucks, only works out to about 20 miles. I can fabricate most
> >anything as long as I get the right specs.
>
> I cringe every time I see or hear of someone wanting to
> glue stuff to the inside of a perfectly good canopy . . .
> but TECHNICALLY, what you propose will function.
>
> Departure from a straight line dipole is more for convenience/
> appearances than anything else. You have to test the antenna
> at an instrumented antenna range to measure the effects on
> performance.
>
> If it were MY hand held, I'd provide a means for connecting
> it to the existing COM antenna as a back up to the ship's
October 02, 2004 - October 14, 2004
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-do