AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ea
February 16, 2005 - February 26, 2005
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> > ##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
> > off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors for
> > wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
> >
>
> Yes, this is theoretically possible, but I've never been able to
> do it. I have an insertion/extraction tool that I got from
> Steinair, but I've never been able to remove a pin from a molex
> connector. If there is a trick, I'd love to know it!
>
> Mickey
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 Wiring
The extractor pin has two sides to it. The copper side without the split is for
inserting the pin. The other side(the silverextraction side)has a split that
will allow you to "grip" the wire but first you must push firmly past the internal
flange lock, then "grip" the wire and it should slide right out. It does
take some practice, but if there is no previous damage to the flange, it should
come right out. Good luck.
--
bnoon12(at)comcast.net
Tucson,AZ 85750
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
##PS: If one were a really fastidious and pecunious type one could not cut
off the connectors, but rather just extract the pins from the connectors for
wing removal, and then reinsert the pins upon wing reinstall.
Yes, this is theoretically possible, but I've never been able to
do it. I have an insertion/extraction tool that I got from
Steinair, but I've never been able to remove a pin from a molex
connector. If there is a trick, I'd love to know it!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Encoder Question- Dynon D10A coupled to Garmin GTX |
320A or GTX 327
| From: | "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com> |
I have asked Garmin's tech help line if the 320A or 327 Xpdrs can accept
the encoder output from the Dynon D10A. They responded "will need a
Grey code Gilham input from an encoder in order to receive altitude for
Mode C."
Dynon doesn't want to say yes or no and leaves it up to the user to
figure it out. Their web site indicates that the older D10 sent a
parallel gray code, but the new D10A sends a ASCII serial code. This is
all Greek to me. Can anybody enlighten me?
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"
Don Alexander
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Whelan Strobes |
That explains it - I've got the wrong tool! Thanks a lot for the help!
Mickey
John Schroeder wrote:
>
> Mickey -
>
> The connectors that Whelan uses are AMP Mate 'n Lock connectors. They look
> like Molex's but are not the same. However, since both types have similar
> pins and locking mechanisms, removing pins from either depends on the
> diameter of the pins.
>
> You can get .09's or .06's thereabouts diameter pins. Radio Shack has a
> tool for each pin size. The tool consists of a very thin-walled tube wi/
> the inside diameter of that tube being very slightly larger than the pins
> or sockets - .096 or .066 for sake of argument. The outside diameter is
> such that you can get the pin inside and the still be able to insert the
> tube in the socket well of the plug itself. There is a rod that fits into
> this tube and it has a flattened top so that you can push it with your
> thumb. Insert the tube into the socket well and push down until you feel a
> slight click, you then push on the inner rod to force the pin out of the
> socket to the rear.
>
> I did not find a pin remover on Steinair that does this. The two that he
> shows on the connector page are used to remove machined pins from other
> connectors eg. AMP CPC's and DSubs. They remove the pins from the back of
> the connector - not the front.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> John
>
>
>>Yes, this is theoretically possible, but I've never been able to do it.
>>I have an insertion/extraction tool > that I got from Steinair, but I've
>>never been able to remove a pin from a molex connector. If there is a >
>>trick, I'd love to know it!
>>
>>Mickey
>
>
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wiring P-Mag ignitions |
It would appear that you need both an ignition switch plus a battery power CB/switch
to test all functions. The ignition should function with EITHER battery
power OR it's internal generator so you would need the CB to test both. The ignition
switch only verifies that something is powering it, not what.
Greg
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Karen and Robert
Brown
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring P-Mag ignitions
I'm installing dual P-Mag ignitions in my RV7A that is wired per the "Connection"...Emagair
recommends putting a 5A breaker on each ignition so when you do a
run up, you can eliminate the power feed to the ignition system to prove that
it's generating it's own power.
I have a few 5A switch/breakers I could install to accomplish the above.
The one place I've differed from z-11 architecture is that I've installed a L/R/Start
ignition switch.
My questions are these:
1. Can I simply wire each ignition to it's own 5A fuse on one of my busses and
use the ignition switch to eliminate battery power to each ignition during run-up
or would it be best to use switch/breakers? I can't think of a good reason
I'd want to be able to switch the ignition off in two different places...
2. If I do wire the fused P-Mags to the ignition switch, it seems like these should
be wired to the battery bus, correct?
Thanks for so much teaching! I learn so much just by my morning reading of this
groups messages.
Bob Brown
RV7A - wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Encoder Question- Dynon D10A coupled to Garmin |
GTX 320A or GTX 327
Don, I have had no problem getting the D10A talking to my GTX 327, other
than some finger troubles with settings.
Dynon now offers a serial to grey code converter on their web site, so
that should work to talk to the GTX 320A.
Schematics for this are on my web site
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/rv-9a.html See link at top
of the page. You'll need to download some free software for reading my
schematic. Look for the Nav page in my schematic for the electrical
connections that you need.
If you need the configurations, let me know-- I can dig them up. You'll
probably have no trouble, though.
As an aside, did you know that the Garmin GTX 327 can't talk to a Garmin
GPSMap 296? I wanted to use the auto mode C function in the 327 which
gets airspeed and position data from an external GPS... but it has to be
a GNS 430 or similar. Now what engineer at Garmin decided that?
Probably the same genius that said their rack pitch should be 6.3125",
not the 6.25" everyone else uses (including the Garmin AT products).
Garmin is slowly figuring out that experimental aircraft are a market.
They now allow Van's to sell their avionics. Maybe one day they will
improve their support as well... including on-line manuals. I have the
GTX 327 manual if you want me to send it to you.
Anyway, let me know if you need more info.
Alexander, Don wrote:
>
>I have asked Garmin's tech help line if the 320A or 327 Xpdrs can accept
>the encoder output from the Dynon D10A. They responded "will need a
>Grey code Gilham input from an encoder in order to receive altitude for
>Mode C."
>
>Dynon doesn't want to say yes or no and leaves it up to the user to
>figure it out. Their web site indicates that the older D10 sent a
>parallel gray code, but the new D10A sends a ASCII serial code. This is
>all Greek to me. Can anybody enlighten me?
>
>"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"
>
>Don Alexander
>RV-8
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Mag/P-Mag electrical info |
No, I'm not certain, but it's a good point. It would be a bad design
that injected conducted RFI or was susceptable to it... but these are
not TSO'd devices.
At least it's not the normal mode of operation, and if I had to choose
between a functioning engine or an accurate EFIS, it's an easy choice.
Perhaps I take a spectrum analyzer and probe around my panel wiring at
some point.
Vern
Leo J. Corbalis wrote:
>
>Are you certain that you will not put any voltage spikes into the Dynon
>electronics. That could be an awfully expensive backup battery !
>Leo Corbalis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "rv-9a-online" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-Mag/P-Mag electrical info
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Werner, thanks for this. I've been trying to get this data from the
>>manufacturer for a while.
>>
>>I have wired my system to be able to draw power from my Dynon EFIS
>>internal battery. This allows hand-propping or emergency power for the
>>E-Mag. I decided not to wire the backup power for the P-Mag in order to
>>reduce current drain on the backup battery.
>>
>>If I need the backup power, its 'IGN switch to AUX, EFIS ON'. Since the
>>EFIS is usually on, this becomes a single motion in flight if needed.
>>
>>I figured that if I paid for the Dynon battery, I may as well use it!
>>It also powers my engine monitor back-up power input. With my GPSMap
>>296 internal battery, a primary electrical failure will still allow me
>>to have primary flight instruments, engine instruments and nav (GPS)...
>>and ignition. A handheld Comm completes the picture for redundancy.
>>
>>My design for this in on the Engine page of my schematics, available at:
>>
>>http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx.html
>>
>>Thanks, Vern Little RV-9A/Aerosport Roller Cam engine/p-mag&e-mag.
>>
>>
>>Werner Schneider wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>For all interested in this kind of magnetos, I did ask them to supply
>>>
>>>
>some
>
>
>>>numbers:
>>>
>>>-----------------------insert Tom Carlson ----------------------------
>>>Operating input voltage is nominally 5 to 18 volts. The coil charge time
>>>
>>>
>is
>
>
>>>automatically adjusted by the computer to maintain a constant spark power
>>>over the range of 8 to 18 volts.
>>>
>>>Because of the power storage capability the input current can be as
>>>
>>>
>little
>
>
>>>as .2 amp for a useful spark output during startup. Note however that
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>start mode uses multi-spark firing during start mode witch will use about
>>>
>>>
>.5
>
>
>>>amp during startup (up to about 300rpm).
>>>
>>>The P-Mag uses external power (like the E-Mag) for starting. It's power
>>>draw from the aircraft buss drops off quickly with rpm so above about
>>>
>>>
>1600
>
>
>>>rpm it is drawing no power from the aircraft buss. Without external
>>>
>>>
>power
>
>
>>>(aircraft electrical failure) it will operate self powered well under
>>>1000rpm.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Tom Carlson
>>> E-Mag
>>>-----------------------insert Tom Carlson ----------------------------
>>>might give some insights
>>>
>>>Werner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
> -->
>
>
> >
> >
> >A while back on this list there was discussion about whether or not
> >internally regulated alternators would continue to function if the
> >"field" input was turned off. Apparently many alternators will
> >continue to function after the "bootstrap" even if the
> control power is
> >turned off. I have the 40 amp internally regulated Nippondenso,
> >supplied on my Aerosport engine, but believed to be from Niagara Air
> >Parts. I recently confirmed that when the input circuit is
> shut off,
> >the alternator indeed shuts down.
> >
> >So, there are different animals out there.
>
> How much current flows into the control lead while the
> alternator is functioning. Just because the lead has "control"
> over the normally operating alternator does not answer the question
> as to what happens if the integrated circuit in the alternator
> goes sneakers-up. Unless the "control" lead is the POWER SORUCE
> for the alternator field . . . then there's no guarantee that
> this lead can be used to disable a failed alternator.
>
> If the input current is on the order of 2-3 amps with the
> alternator
> not running and falls as the alternator spins up, then the
> "control"
> lead is just a signal to the regulator and is vulnerable loss
> of functionality in the worst case scenario.
>
> Bob . . .
Ah, yes Bob, you probably recall our telephone discussion several years ago.
I really should rig up an ammeter in that line to answer this question once
and for all.
However, I only posted the above message because a while back several posts
indicated that shutting off the control line on a running alternator would
not kill its output, which isn't always true.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 571 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Schneider <plumberben(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Dual Alternator/Dual Battery monitoring. |
Bob and gang...
I am building an RV7 with a Mazda Rotary engine that will depend on the
electrical system for operation, though I won't be crossing any big water,
I have decided to go with dual alternator and dual batteries wired nearly
verbatim Z-14. I have B&C L40 alternators, and LR3 regulators. My thought
was to put in an Electronics International digital volt/amp gauge (even
though I have dual EFIS that also monitor bus voltage) to keep an eye on
things. However I want to only put in one gauge to monitor both systems.
Can this be done with a DPST switch and two shunts? I don't see why it
wouldn't work, but I may be missing something. Thus, I am looking for some
criticism/suggestions.
BTW, Bob, I will see you at the Wicks seminar, and I am looking forward
to it.
Ben Schneider RV7R N713R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED Bias Resistor |
Dear Bob,
I think some comment on this would be appropriate:
>Further, in my experience the modern LED is VERY tolerant to over-current.
I think this statement is unjustified. The LED makers would love it, if this
were true. What damages LEDs is heat. You can increase the voltage enough
that the little chip arcs over, or increase the current enough to melt the
bond wire....but basically it is heat that determines how long the carefully
arranged atoms in the LED die can keep doing their job. So maybe an LED with
the leads left long will be okay for years but put into a circuit board with
the leads trimmed it will expire quickly. This is very different from
saying, "the modern LED is VERY tolerant to over-current."
The "modern LED" is LESS tolerant to overcurrent. In the "old" days pulsing
LEDs was common. Now you can't pulse them worth a fartleberry in your
shreddies. Damn....
>We had a bit of a kerfuffle
A flummoxation perhaps, but a kerfuffle...?
> I fabricated an experiment with a wall wart wherein I biased up several
LEDs at 5x their rated current (150 versus 30 mA). Plugged them into a
little used outlet in the garage and >left them. Several years later I took
them down when I was pulling wall socket plates off the walls to paint . . .
they never got put back. As far as I could see, all LEDs in the experiment
>were still capable of scorching the retinas off the backs of my eyeballs.
I too frequently have half a dozen "comfort level" informal experiments
around. But in this case there is just enough information to make a rube
ing-bing
a) The LEDs were probably red* and made in the last several years (let's say
the 1990's?). There are trillions of LEDs that won't last in similar
conditions.
b) ...Still capable of scorching the retinas ? The eye is a very poor
light-metering device. The LEDs might have been 10% of original
brightness...who can tell?
>Yeah, if you want the LED to run a bizillion hours, there may be value in
running at or less than specified current. If you need a bit more light,
there's little risk in overdriving the parts to get it.
Just watch the heat.
* LEDs in identical conditions seem to fad by color. This is a technical
issue due to several causes. Reds fade least followed by green, blue, and
white. Good article at:
http://www.compoundsemiconductor.net/articles/magazine/8/1/4/1#csnarendran2_01-02.jpg
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
- - Leonard Cohen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkejrj(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Alternator/Dual Battery monitoring. |
Ben,
We wired my aircraft per Bob's Z 14 and installed E I's Volt/Amp guage with an
E I switch which was designed to allow the pilot to select which system he wanted
to monitor.The switch was labeled " Right or Left " and I presume it was
intended for use in a dual Alternator Twin with a common bus.The guage itself
was powered by the Main Bus ; the EI switch was designed to feed the guage with
either the "Right"(Main) or"Left"(Aux) Shunt values.
After installation we set up Z 14 to energize only the Main Alternator with the
Aux Alternator and Cross Feed off. We operated the " Right/Left " switch in
each position and tested the Bus voltage of each Bus with a volt meter. It read
12 volts on the" Right " Alt and 6 volts on the" Left ". The " Left " system,
according to our logic, should have read zero volts since , again , the "Left
"or Aux Bus was off.
We contacted E I and were advised that their Gauge is designed so that it is
powered by the same Alternator Bus that the Shunts it is measuring are on. What
was occuring was that the voltage was back feeding through the EI guage from
our active Main Bus to our inactive Aux Bus.
We solved the problem by installing a 9 pole switch so that the EI guage now
has the shunts it is measuring and the power it receives from the same system.
We purchased the switch from Digikey for about $15.00. All is well.
Happy wiring,
Dick Jordan
RV 8 Finishing
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Bob and gang...
>
> I am building an RV7 with a Mazda Rotary engine that will depend on the
> electrical system for operation, though I won't be crossing any big water,
> I have decided to go with dual alternator and dual batteries wired nearly
> verbatim Z-14. I have B&C L40 alternators, and LR3 regulators. My thought
> was to put in an Electronics International digital volt/amp gauge (even
> though I have dual EFIS that also monitor bus voltage) to keep an eye on
> things. However I want to only put in one gauge to monitor both systems.
> Can this be done with a DPST switch and two shunts? I don't see why it
> wouldn't work, but I may be missing something. Thus, I am looking for some
> criticism/suggestions.
>
> BTW, Bob, I will see you at the Wicks seminar, and I am looking forward
> to it.
>
> Ben Schneider RV7R N713R
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ben,
We wired my aircraft per Bob's Z 14 and installed E I's Volt/Amp guage with an
E I switch which was designed to allow the pilot to select which system he wanted
to monitor.The switch was labeled " Right or Left " and I presume it was
intended for use in a dual Alternator Twin with a common bus.The guage itself
was powered by the Main Bus ; the EI switch was designed to feed the guage with
either the "Right"(Main) or"Left"(Aux) Shunt values.
After installation we set up Z 14 to energize only the Main Alternator with the
Aux Alternator and Cross Feed off. We operated the " Right/Left " switch in
each position and tested the Bus voltage of each Bus with a volt meter. It read
12 volts on the" Right " Alt and 6 volts on the" Left ". The " Left " system,
according to our logic, should have read zero volts since , again , the"Left
"or Aux Bus was off.
We contacted E I and were advised that their Gauge is designed so that it is powered
by the same Alternator Bus that the Shunts it is measuring are on. What
was occuring was that the voltage was back feeding through the EI guage from
our activeMain Bus to our inactiveAux Bus.
We solved the problem byinstalling a 9 pole switch so that the EI guage now has
the shunts it is measuring and the power it receives from the same system. We
purchased the switch from Digikey for about $15.00. All is well.
Happy wiring,
Dick Jordan
RV 8 Finishing
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ben Schneider
Bob and gang...
I am building an RV7 with a Mazda Rotary engine that will depend on the
electrical system for operation, though I won't be crossing any big water,
I have decided to go with dual alternator and dual batteries wired nearly
verbatim Z-14. I have BC L40 alternators, and LR3 regulators. My thought
was to put in an Electronics International digital volt/amp gauge (even
though I have dual EFIS that also monitor bus voltage) to keep an eye on
things. However I want to only put in one gauge to monitor both systems.
Can this be done with a DPST switch and two shunts? I don't see why it
wouldn't work, but I may be missing something. Thu
s, I am looking for some
criticism/suggestions.
BTW, Bob, I will see you at the Wicks seminar, and I am looking forward
to it.
Ben Schneider RV7R N713R
com/browse/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
At http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm there is a section, most of the way down,
titled
02/07/05 A Forced Landing
You all might find the read interesting, especially the lessons learned.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Fisher" <sonex76(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Ammeter/voltmeter Gauge |
Looking for a source for a reliable but inexpensive (if Possible)
ammeter/voltmeter panel mount gauge for my Jabiru 3300 engine
with a 20 amp single phase permanent magnet alternator.
I'm using a Stratomaster Ultra X that has a voltmeter indicator,
so maybe just an ammeter would be needed??
Thank You.
Dick Fisher
sonex76(at)velocity.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Hi Eric,
Thanks for pointing out this excellent article.
Mickey
Eric Ruttan wrote:
>
> At http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm there is a section, most of the way down,
> titled
>
> 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
> You all might find the read interesting, especially the lessons learned.
>
> Eric
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Ignoring everything else, the alternator field fuse popped. He
apparently hasn't found a definate reason for that, such as a field
short. Perhaps the slow characteristics of a C/B (as advocated here for
alternator fields) might have helped but to stir the pot a bit it also
occurs to me that the much maligned oem internal VR alternator doesn't
have an external field circuit to cause difficulty...
Ken
Eric Ruttan wrote:
>
>At http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm there is a section, most of the way down,
>titled
>
>02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
>You all might find the read interesting, especially the lessons learned.
>
>Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>
>Hi Eric,
>
>Thanks for pointing out this excellent article.
>
>Mickey
>
>Eric Ruttan wrote:
>
> >
> > At http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm there is a section, most of the way down,
> > titled
> >
> > 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
> >
> > You all might find the read interesting, especially the lessons learned.
> >
> > Eric
What may we deduce from this article that will assist
us in deliberating our own projects? Let's see . . .
---------- COMMENTED EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE----------
02/07/05 A Forced Landing
"This read 9.5 volts so I knew then that we had a charging system failure.
At the time, I was not worried about making it to an airport, assuming that
the alternator had failed just in the last few minutes and believing that I
had 20-25 minutes of battery power remaining."
What do we know as a matter of simple-ideas in the discussions
on battery performance and capability? when a 12-volt lead-acid battery
drops to 10.5 volts it's remaining capacity is less than 5% of the
fully charged value IN IT'S PRESENT CONDITION. This means that if the
battery is several years old and has a current best capacity equal to
2/3 of new, then 10.5 volts is less than 5% of 2/3 of new.
In fact, it is likely that the alternator failed soon after takeoff from
Springbank but I did not notice signs of the failure until the battery was
well over half dead.
It wasn't half dead . . . it was all dead.
About 4-5 minutes later, the engine started to run rough as battery
voltage was down to 6.5 volts. 2 minutes later
(See? 20-25 minutes was totally wishful thinking.)
Preliminary investigation showed that the alternator field fuse . . .
Field Fuse? What style of ov protection is installed on
this airplane?
. . . was blown for reasons undetermined at this point although some swarf
was resting on top of the fuse holder in close proximity. Whether this was
the cause or simply dislodged from the impact will probably never be known.
We'll be performing tests on the charging system when the aircraft is
repaired again.
Tests? To measure what?
The low voltage warning light was likely ON for 10-15 minutes and remained
unnoticed by me because I was busy recording AFR data. The warning light is
not a flashing type which is much more likely to attract attention. A 95dB
warning buzzer will now be added so that a charging system malfunction will
be apparent immediately. I strongly recommend an aural warning vs. a light.
The delay in noticing the failure resulted in the forced landing. I
believed that I had 20-25 minutes of battery power remaining when the
failure was detected but had more like 10 minutes at that point.
Education is always expensive in terms of $time$ required to
achieve it. Venturing into situations rife with unknowns
can ratchet the cost of education up dramatically along
with the potential for seriously hazardous outcomes.
Pilots always talk of instructors throwing impossible multiple system
failures and emergencies at them in training or in the simulator. Well,
this time, we had such multiple, progressive system failures and did not
recognize what was happening until the third device started giving odd
readings. It is worth thinking about odd readings rather than dismissing
them. You might save valuable time.
Yup, here's the contrite and humble admission that the pilot
was somehow derelict in his duty to process a rapidly changing
stream of SYSTEMS information while attempting to BE A PILOT.
My friend, the seeds for this incident were plowed deep,
fertilized and watered well before you fueled the airplane
that day. The ROOT CAUSE of this incident had nothing to
do with your inability to deal with a basic FAILURE OF
DESIGN and understanding of limits.
In the dark-n-stormy night stories from the certified side
of aviation, we NEVER read where a pilot writes to Cessna,
Beech, Piper or the FAA and takes them to task for selling
them a system that almost guarantees failure. Since this is
YOUR project, please don't beat yourself up as PILOT but
a trip to the woodshed as DESIGNER is certainly in order . . .
We rely so much on GPS but the "Nearest Airport" feature does not help much
without electrical power and a dark screen. Having a map handy and marking
last known position every 10 miles is not a bad idea. Glass cockpit
advocates take note on the reliance of these on electrical power. We had no
time to Mayday or really squawk a comm failure before power was lost. This
could be serious in controlled airspace.
We had no battery backup as this was deemed unnecessary, thinking that the
alternator failure would be immediately noticed and that I'd have 20-25
minutes of flight time to find a suitable landing spot or airport. A second
18 amp hour battery will be added with a separate switch, independent of
the master solenoid. I was worried that the master solenoid would trip open
at the low voltage, effectively signing everything off. Fortunately, the
hold current required on these is quite low but this is an extra drain on
the battery.
Again, an assumption of facts not in evidence but easily
deduced by dedicating a certain amount of $time$ to education.
Most of the electrical devices were effectively offline at around 9 volts.
Fortunately the SDS ECU and coil pack functioned down to the very last
along with the fuel pumps, even at 6.5 volts where the battery is virtually
dead. SDS has voltage compensation for the ignition and injector drivers
which helped in this situation. Does your ECU have this?
This isn't a question of how well your system performs at
6.5 volts or even 10.5 volts. It's a question of designing
a system wherein voltage NEVER falls to these levels.
Damage will be repaired. Systems will be changed. Checklists will be
altered and training will be intensified. I pledge not to forget the
lessons learned here and am very happy to still be here to write this.
And we are very happy that you're here to share this
with us and to fly again.
It is apparent from the article that your
understanding of the rest of the airframe is extensive
and that you are conducting good development work in
the finest tradition of the Skunk Works. Please join us on
the AeroElectric-List . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/consulting.html
. . . so that you can tap the time, talent
and resources of dozens of folks who will
(and would have) assist you in sorting out lots
of simple-ideas. The goal is to assemble them in
to light, inexpensive, reliable and FAILURE TOLERANT
electrical systems that REDUCE PILOT WORKLOAD to an
absolute minimum and reduce probability of root
cause of an accident originating in the electrical
system.
Kindest regards,
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>Ignoring everything else, the alternator field fuse popped. He
>apparently hasn't found a definate reason for that, such as a field
>short. Perhaps the slow characteristics of a C/B (as advocated here for
>alternator fields) might have helped but to stir the pot a bit it also
>occurs to me that the much maligned oem internal VR alternator doesn't
>have an external field circuit to cause difficulty...
>Ken
The circuit breaker isn't recommended for field protection
because of it's speed characteristics. It fits
well with CROWBAR ov protection . . . which is subject to
nuisance tripping. Any other form of ov protection might work
well downstream of a fuse for field power . . . the
assumption of facts not in evidence here is whether the fuse
in question even carries field current.
It's most likely in an alternator control line that carries
mere milliamps of current to tell the alternator to turn
ON . . . and taking power off that leadwire may or may
not turn the alternator OFF. If we're privileged to know
the detailed analysis of this incident, it may well be
that some kind of FOD popped the fuse. If so, the outcome
of this event would have been no different had the airplane
been fitted with an LR-3/L40 system. It will be interesting
to see if the author joins us here on the list so that
(1) we can ask questions to guide his investigation and
(2) we all get to share benefits of the facts discovered.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>
>Hi Eric,
>
>Thanks for pointing out this excellent article.
>
>Mickey
>
>Eric Ruttan wrote:
>
> >
> > At http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm there is a section, most of the way down,
> > titled
> >
> > 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
> >
> > You all might find the read interesting, especially the lessons learned.
> >
> > Eric
What may we deduce from this article that will assist
us in deliberating our own projects? Let's see . . .
---------- COMMENTED EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE----------
02/07/05 A Forced Landing
"This read 9.5 volts so I knew then that we had a charging system failure.
At the time, I was not worried about making it to an airport, assuming that
the alternator had failed just in the last few minutes and believing that I
had 20-25 minutes of battery power remaining."
What do we know as a matter of simple-ideas in the discussions
on battery performance and capability? when a 12-volt lead-acid battery
drops to 10.5 volts it's remaining capacity is less than 5% of the
fully charged value IN IT'S PRESENT CONDITION. This means that if the
battery is several years old and has a current best capacity equal to
2/3 of new, then 10.5 volts is less than 5% of 2/3 of new.
In fact, it is likely that the alternator failed soon after takeoff from
Springbank but I did not notice signs of the failure until the battery was
well over half dead.
It wasn't half dead . . . it was all dead.
About 4-5 minutes later, the engine started to run rough as battery
voltage was down to 6.5 volts. 2 minutes later
(See? 20-25 minutes was totally wishful thinking.)
Preliminary investigation showed that the alternator field fuse . . .
Field Fuse? What style of ov protection is installed on
this airplane?
. . . was blown for reasons undetermined at this point although some swarf
was resting on top of the fuse holder in close proximity. Whether this was
the cause or simply dislodged from the impact will probably never be known.
We'll be performing tests on the charging system when the aircraft is
repaired again.
Tests? To measure what?
The low voltage warning light was likely ON for 10-15 minutes and remained
unnoticed by me because I was busy recording AFR data. The warning light is
not a flashing type which is much more likely to attract attention. A 95dB
warning buzzer will now be added so that a charging system malfunction will
be apparent immediately. I strongly recommend an aural warning vs. a light.
The delay in noticing the failure resulted in the forced landing. I
believed that I had 20-25 minutes of battery power remaining when the
failure was detected but had more like 10 minutes at that point.
Education is always expensive in terms of $time$ required to
achieve it. Venturing into situations rife with unknowns
can ratchet the cost of education up dramatically along
with the potential for seriously hazardous outcomes.
Pilots always talk of instructors throwing impossible multiple system
failures and emergencies at them in training or in the simulator. Well,
this time, we had such multiple, progressive system failures and did not
recognize what was happening until the third device started giving odd
readings. It is worth thinking about odd readings rather than dismissing
them. You might save valuable time.
Yup, here's the contrite and humble admission that the pilot
was somehow derelict in his duty to process a rapidly changing
stream of SYSTEMS information while attempting to BE A PILOT.
My friend, the seeds for this incident were plowed deep,
fertilized and watered well before you fueled the airplane
that day. The ROOT CAUSE of this incident had nothing to
do with your inability to deal with a basic FAILURE OF
DESIGN and understanding of limits.
In the dark-n-stormy night stories from the certified side
of aviation, we NEVER read where a pilot writes to Cessna,
Beech, Piper or the FAA and takes them to task for selling
them a system that almost guarantees failure. Since this is
YOUR project, please don't beat yourself up as PILOT but
a trip to the woodshed as DESIGNER is certainly in order . . .
We rely so much on GPS but the "Nearest Airport" feature does not help much
without electrical power and a dark screen. Having a map handy and marking
last known position every 10 miles is not a bad idea. Glass cockpit
advocates take note on the reliance of these on electrical power. We had no
time to Mayday or really squawk a comm failure before power was lost. This
could be serious in controlled airspace.
We had no battery backup as this was deemed unnecessary, thinking that the
alternator failure would be immediately noticed and that I'd have 20-25
minutes of flight time to find a suitable landing spot or airport. A second
18 amp hour battery will be added with a separate switch, independent of
the master solenoid. I was worried that the master solenoid would trip open
at the low voltage, effectively signing everything off. Fortunately, the
hold current required on these is quite low but this is an extra drain on
the battery.
Again, an assumption of facts not in evidence but easily
deduced by dedicating a certain amount of $time$ to education.
Most of the electrical devices were effectively offline at around 9 volts.
Fortunately the SDS ECU and coil pack functioned down to the very last
along with the fuel pumps, even at 6.5 volts where the battery is virtually
dead. SDS has voltage compensation for the ignition and injector drivers
which helped in this situation. Does your ECU have this?
This isn't a question of how well your system performs at
6.5 volts or even 10.5 volts. It's a question of designing
a system wherein voltage NEVER falls to these levels.
Damage will be repaired. Systems will be changed. Checklists will be
altered and training will be intensified. I pledge not to forget the
lessons learned here and am very happy to still be here to write this.
And we are very happy that you're here to share this
with us and to fly again.
It is apparent from the article that your
understanding of the rest of the airframe is extensive
and that you are conducting good development work in
the finest tradition of the Skunk Works. Please join us on
the AeroElectric-List . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/consulting.html
. . . so that you can tap the time, talent
and resources of dozens of folks who will
(and would have) assist you in sorting out lots
of simple-ideas. The goal is to assemble them in
to light, inexpensive, reliable and FAILURE TOLERANT
electrical systems that REDUCE PILOT WORKLOAD to an
absolute minimum and reduce probability of root
cause of an accident originating in the electrical
system.
Kindest regards,
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
I'm very relieved that no one was hurt, and glad that this incident is being
shared for the benefit of all.
>>The low voltage warning light was likely ON for 10-15 minutes and remained
unnoticed by me because I was busy recording AFR data.
IMHO this is the key statement in this incident. He had LV warning, but it
was somehow not observed due to other distractions. Even a failure tolerant
system requires that the failure be recognized in time to take appropriate
action!
>>The warning light is not a flashing type which is much more likely to
attract attention.
>>A 95dB warning buzzer will now be added so that a charging system
malfunction will be apparent immediately.
>>I strongly recommend an aural warning vs. a light.
Two key Lessons Learned here. Neither are new, but I for one hadn't been
thinking about aural warning. Learning occurs when you change your behavior
based on the Lesson presented, so guess what's now on my list of things to
do . . .
Adding a buzzer in parallel with the warning light sounds simple enough.
But since hearing protection will be worn in the cockpit, I have a some
questions (these may be premature since I haven't done any investigation):
1) How would one add a buzzer that can be muted (it needs to be loud - so
you need to be able to mute it so it doesn't become a distraction)
2) How would one add aural warning through the headset (audio panel /
intercom) - which also can be muted.
3) What is the easiest way to make LEDs flash - just buy flashing LEDs - or
is adding a flasher a 'better' way to go (better = more control, cheaper,
easier, ...)
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
I'm very relieved that no one was hurt, and glad that this incident is being shared
for the benefit of all.
The low voltage warning light was likely ON for 10-15 minutes and remained unnoticed
by me because I was busy recording AFR data.
IMHO this is the key statement in this incident. He had LV warning, but it was
somehow not observed due to other distractions. Even a failure tolerant system
requires that the failure be recognized in time to take appropriate action!
The warning light is not a flashing type which is much more likely to attract attention.
A 95dB warning buzzer will now be added so that a charging system malfunction will
be apparent immediately.
I strongly recommend an aural warning vs. a light.
Two key Lessons Learned here. Neither are new, but I for one hadn't been thinking
about aural warning. Learning occurs when you change your behavior based on
the Lesson presented, so guess what's now on my list of things to do . . .
Adding a buzzer in parallel with the warning light sounds simple enough. But since
hearing protection will be worn in the cockpit, I have a some questions (these
may be premature since I haven't done any investigation):
1) How would one add a buzzer that can be muted (it needs to be loud - so you need
to be able to mute it so it doesn't become a distraction)
2) How would one add aural warning through the headset (audio panel / intercom)
- which also can be muted.
3) What is the easiest way to make LEDs flash - just buy flashing LEDs - or is
adding a flasher a 'better' way to go (better more control, cheaper, easier,
...)
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Audio isolation amp board |
| From: | "Dee L. Conger" <dee(at)ansatainc.com> |
Bob - is the circuit board for your isolation amp available? If so,
where?
Thanks,
Dee L. Conger
(858) 754-3010 Direct
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
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recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>Two key Lessons Learned here. Neither are new, but I for one hadn't been
>thinking about aural warning. Learning occurs when you change your
>behavior based on the Lesson presented, so guess what's now on my list of
>things to do . . .
>
>Adding a buzzer in parallel with the warning light sounds simple enough.
>But since hearing protection will be worn in the cockpit, I have a some
>questions (these may be premature since I haven't done any investigation):
>
>1) How would one add a buzzer that can be muted (it needs to be loud - so
>you need to be able to mute it so it doesn't become a distraction)
This opens the door to explore a feature of many of
the world's larger and perhaps more sophisticated
aircraft. Many of our airplanes at RAC have a Master
Caution and Master Warning detection and annunciation
system.
An illuminated red WARNING and amber CAUTION push buttons
are positioned centrally to both the pilot and copilot
panels. If anything CHANGES on the annunciator panel,
the changed item on annunciator -AND- the appropriate
WARNING or CAUTION lights begin to flash. After the crew
has reacted to the warning and observed the information
presented, he/she may push the flashing WARNING or CAUTION
button which causes all annunciations to stop flashing
and illuniation for the WARNING/CAUTION buttons goes out.
This feature is effective in bringing new data to the
crew's attention. An annunciator panel may have several
lights already on when some new event needs to be noted.
Flashing the new data IN ADDITION to lighting the
WARNING/CAUTION lights does a good job of beating
the washtub.
>2) How would one add aural warning through the headset (audio panel /
>intercom) - which also can be muted.
One could easily craft a master caution/warning system
that outputs a warning tone to the autio system in conjunction
with the flashing light.
>3) What is the easiest way to make LEDs flash - just buy flashing LEDs -
>or is adding a flasher a 'better' way to go (better more control,
>cheaper, easier, ...)
Build it into the driving circuitry. The Low Voltage Warning/
Aux Battery Management Module we offer builds the flasher
into the LED driver. Further, the lamp fixture we supply
uses a hi-intensity red LED and paragraph 5.3 of the installation
instructions . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
. . . says "The lamp's small size is favorable to
a mounting location right in front of the pilot
. . . even if the lamp needs to be tucked between
existing panel hardware."
Perhaps I should be a bit more specific in the
instructions and say that the lamp should be mounted
directly in front of the pilot.
We flash at about 3 flashes per second (recommended
by human factors folks as most attention getting) and
use a bright lamp. I'll suggest that had the aircraft
discussed in the original article been fitted with
the AEC9005-101 LVW/ABMM or its clone . . .
(See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
and
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf )
. . . the "forced landing" paragraphs would not have
been written.
Aural warnings are not necessarily a bad idea but
before folks run out and look for bunches of buzzers
to add to their lights, let's explore the options
and value of making the lights more effective.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you could
"loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly as
long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto thus
supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
Confused,
Bill Byars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Afternoon, Bill...
I didn't read that article, but as far as planes in general are
concerned...there are a lot of them using electronic ignitions now,
instead of magnetos, or in addition to magnetos. These electronic
ignitions require a source of power to work. Except for the P-Mag, of
course .
Harley Dixon
WRBYARS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you could
>"loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly as
>long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto thus
>supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
>
>Confused,
>Bill Byars
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Hi Bill,
The guy was flying an auto conversion, which requires
electricity to power the fuel pumps, the computer,
and the fuel injection system, just like in your
car. In fact, he is the manufacturer of the computer.
Mickey
WRBYARS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you could
> "loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly as
> long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto thus
> supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
>
> Confused,
> Bill Byars
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
| From: | "George Braly" <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
Bob,
A recent visit with the FAA reveals they are opposed to "flashing" warning or caution
lights.
They claim it is too easy to dismiss them as being simply "faulty" lights.
Rather than lights indicating a fault.
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
>Two key Lessons Learned here. Neither are new, but I for one hadn't been
>thinking about aural warning. Learning occurs when you change your
>behavior based on the Lesson presented, so guess what's now on my list of
>things to do . . .
>
>Adding a buzzer in parallel with the warning light sounds simple enough.
>But since hearing protection will be worn in the cockpit, I have a some
>questions (these may be premature since I haven't done any investigation):
>
>1) How would one add a buzzer that can be muted (it needs to be loud - so
>you need to be able to mute it so it doesn't become a distraction)
This opens the door to explore a feature of many of
the world's larger and perhaps more sophisticated
aircraft. Many of our airplanes at RAC have a Master
Caution and Master Warning detection and annunciation
system.
An illuminated red WARNING and amber CAUTION push buttons
are positioned centrally to both the pilot and copilot
panels. If anything CHANGES on the annunciator panel,
the changed item on annunciator -AND- the appropriate
WARNING or CAUTION lights begin to flash. After the crew
has reacted to the warning and observed the information
presented, he/she may push the flashing WARNING or CAUTION
button which causes all annunciations to stop flashing
and illuniation for the WARNING/CAUTION buttons goes out.
This feature is effective in bringing new data to the
crew's attention. An annunciator panel may have several
lights already on when some new event needs to be noted.
Flashing the new data IN ADDITION to lighting the
WARNING/CAUTION lights does a good job of beating
the washtub.
>2) How would one add aural warning through the headset (audio panel /
>intercom) - which also can be muted.
One could easily craft a master caution/warning system
that outputs a warning tone to the autio system in conjunction
with the flashing light.
>3) What is the easiest way to make LEDs flash - just buy flashing LEDs -
>or is adding a flasher a 'better' way to go (better more control,
>cheaper, easier, ...)
Build it into the driving circuitry. The Low Voltage Warning/
Aux Battery Management Module we offer builds the flasher
into the LED driver. Further, the lamp fixture we supply
uses a hi-intensity red LED and paragraph 5.3 of the installation
instructions . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
. . . says "The lamp's small size is favorable to
a mounting location right in front of the pilot
. . . even if the lamp needs to be tucked between
existing panel hardware."
Perhaps I should be a bit more specific in the
instructions and say that the lamp should be mounted
directly in front of the pilot.
We flash at about 3 flashes per second (recommended
by human factors folks as most attention getting) and
use a bright lamp. I'll suggest that had the aircraft
discussed in the original article been fitted with
the AEC9005-101 LVW/ABMM or its clone . . .
(See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
and
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf )
. . . the "forced landing" paragraphs would not have
been written.
Aural warnings are not necessarily a bad idea but
before folks run out and look for bunches of buzzers
to add to their lights, let's explore the options
and value of making the lights more effective.
Bob . . .
---
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
Bob and list:
I am planning my electrical system and have just re-read AEC chapter 17
Electrical System Reliability, and STILL am having trouble deciding the
ignition/aux battery/aux alternator mix. I think I need an algorithm
for analyzing redundancy and/or a hierarchy of the most failure-prone
primary electrical components.
First, here's the application: O-360 powered day/night VFR bush plane
with gravity-fed fuel (boost pump for TO & Ldg.) dual electronic
ignitions, either EMAG/PMAG or two PMAGS but leaning towards one of
each. All-electric panel, consisting of Dynon D1o-A EFIS with analog
airspeed and altimeter backup, a skid/slip ball, magnetic and electronic
compasses, and a GPS with moving map PDA ; and a Grand Rapids EIS.
How many simultaneous electrical/electronic failures is it reasonable to
guard against?
Could an alternator or regulator failure smoke an electronic
ignition--or both of them--thus taking down everything?
If the one PMAG self-destructs, the engine becomes electrically
dependent, but my single RG battery should keep the EMAG operating.
If an alternator/regulator failure can't possibly damage the electronic
ignitions, then the engine is not technically dependent on the aircraft
electrical system and the engine can take care of itself temporarily.
Per AEC, I shouldn't need two batteries if I use one good RG and take
care of it and replace it annually. Bob says the failure of a fresh RG
battery is about as likely as losing a prop bolt.
That leaves the alternator/regulator. I gather that this is the most
vulnerable link in the chain. The AEC list archives is awash with stuff
on what to do about alternators that wig out. Granted that a B&C
alternator would reduce the likelihood of an alternator failure, but
"Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: Things break." So
I consider backing up the alternator with an SD8 and overvoltage kit,
for $500. That's on top of the $638 for the main alternator, an L40 and
LR3 regulator, which might be very good but will someday croak. Heck, a
V-belt could break-not the alternator's fault.
So if I have a very reliable back-up alternator, why not realize some
savings and install as the main alternator a $110 automotive 55-amp
internally-regulated unit, with a crowbar circuit and maybe one of those
Whack Jack things? I mean, some of us homebuilders are doing it to
build a better mousetrap AND save money.
One more thing. I estimate peak electrical load at about 19 amps (night
landing with everything on). Rock bottom E-bus load about 5 amps.
Maximum fuel endurance about 6 hours. Should I think about anything
less than a 34 amp hour battery?
Thanks to all who offer critiques.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
When I built my Zodiac 601 HDS I put in a GRT engine monitor. The blinking
light from no oil pressure was supposed to remind me turn off the battery
switch. After the second flight, parked facing the late afternoon sun on the
ramp, I missed the light and ran the battery totally flat. I put a simple 2
1/2 or 3 inch Radio Shack buzzer in paralell with the light. The light has a
blinker circuit so just get a simple steady tone one. The buzzer is stuck to
the back side of the panel with 3M double sided foam tape. Its been there 7
years.
The buzzer is loud enough to hear clearly at full power thru my Peltor 7000
passive headset. The tone is probably higher than the ANR headsets try to
cancel.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
>
> >
> >Two key Lessons Learned here. Neither are new, but I for one hadn't been
> >thinking about aural warning. Learning occurs when you change your
> >behavior based on the Lesson presented, so guess what's now on my list of
> >things to do . . .
> >
> >Adding a buzzer in parallel with the warning light sounds simple enough.
> >But since hearing protection will be worn in the cockpit, I have a some
> >questions (these may be premature since I haven't done any
investigation):
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
wrote:
> One could easily craft a master caution/warning system
> that outputs a warning tone to the autio system in conjunction
> with the flashing light.
Bob -
Do you know if anyone in the OBAM community or a supplier thereof has done
such a system? I, for one, would love to have a kit available for an
annunciator panel that has both a master caution/warning lamp and an aural
output to the audio panel/intercomm.
I suspect that there is something out there, but I have not heard of it.
Several of the EFIS systems have audio and visual cues when certain
systems mostly engine-related) go awry, but such things as baggage doors,
main doors, ground power hooked up, redundant oil pressure warning
circuitry, etc. could be worked into such a system.
Thanks,
John
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
FWIW, this has been stated here before (most probably), but many are flying
dual CDI systems with the addition of a DEDICATED backup battery that is
used only in the event of a main power bus failure to power one CDI, AND as
in my case, for starting to power one CDI.
In fact I lost the alternator output (B-wire connector broke off) on a trip
and flew 40 minutes while still on the main battery back to my home airport,
after of course reducing the load to GPS and CDI's. Battery voltage never
dropped below 12.6 V. Never had to use the 7.8 AH backup battery, but it was
very reassuring just knowing it was there. I have Vision 800 engine
instrumentation system that when the voltage drops below 13.0, a LOW VOLTAGE
alert flashes.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
> Afternoon, Bill...
>
> I didn't read that article, but as far as planes in general are
> concerned...there are a lot of them using electronic ignitions now,
> instead of magnetos, or in addition to magnetos. These electronic
> ignitions require a source of power to work. Except for the P-Mag, of
> course .
>
> Harley Dixon
>
> WRBYARS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you
>>could
>>"loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly
>>as
>>long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto
>>thus
>>supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
>>
>>Confused,
>>Bill Byars
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
>
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
I second this super idea.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
>
>
> wrote:
>
>> One could easily craft a master caution/warning system
>> that outputs a warning tone to the autio system in conjunction
>> with the flashing light.
>
> Bob -
>
> Do you know if anyone in the OBAM community or a supplier thereof has done
> such a system? I, for one, would love to have a kit available for an
> annunciator panel that has both a master caution/warning lamp and an aural
> output to the audio panel/intercomm.
>
> I suspect that there is something out there, but I have not heard of it.
> Several of the EFIS systems have audio and visual cues when certain
> systems mostly engine-related) go awry, but such things as baggage doors,
> main doors, ground power hooked up, redundant oil pressure warning
> circuitry, etc. could be worked into such a system.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank & Dorothy <frankvdh(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>A recent visit with the FAA reveals they are opposed to "flashing" warning or
caution lights.
>
>They claim it is too easy to dismiss them as being simply "faulty" lights.
>
>
Seems unlikely to me... a faulty light might flicker at a high
frequency, or turn on/off intermittently, but I've never seen one that
blinks continuously at (say) 10Hz with an exact 50/50 duty cycle.
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Sounds like silly FAA deskjockey talk to me! I agree that status
indicators should not flash but warning and caution lights?
Surely nobody ignores a flashing light until explaining it. Removing a
faulted flickering light bulb on extremely rare occasion is trivial.
Flickering is not likely to be confused with flashing anyway. A
light that isn't noticed is useless.
Ken
George Braly wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>A recent visit with the FAA reveals they are opposed to "flashing"
warning or caution lights.
>
>They claim it is too easy to dismiss them as being simply "faulty" lights.
>
>Rather than lights indicating a fault.
>
>Regards, George
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Starter motor voltage |
I would like to know what happens to voltage across the starter motor
when current is interrupted. It probably depends on whether the motor is
running or stalled at the moment of interruption.
In the first case I would guess a gentle decay from battery voltage to
zero as the motor stops spinning. In the second case there might be a
negative voltage excursion?
A negative voltage excursion, added to the battery voltage, could exceed
the breakdown voltage of a solid state contacter.
Also, when the battery contacter is used as a backup for a welded-closed
starter contacter the negative voltage spike would appear on the bus.
A powerdiode Schottky clamp would be a solution. But only if there is a
problem.
Does somebody have data or a categorical opinion?
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>Sounds like silly FAA deskjockey talk to me! I agree that status
>indicators should not flash but warning and caution lights?
>Surely nobody ignores a flashing light until explaining it. Removing a
>faulted flickering light bulb on extremely rare occasion is trivial.
>Flickering is not likely to be confused with flashing anyway. A
>light that isn't noticed is useless.
The philosophy of minimizing flashing lights has some
foundation in practice. I think our Hawkers have a
bright/dim mode for the annunciator array itself and
they only flash the master caution/warning (MCW) buttons in
front of the pilots.
When an annunication first presents, it's much brighter
on the array and easy to pick out amongst any other
annunciations already lit. The MCW buttons flash and
you get alarm tones in the audio system. Once the
crew's acknowledges the new condition, the MCW buttons
go dark, the tones go away and the most recently
added annunciations go dim with the rest.
The idea isn't all that whacky but there is precedence
in the brotherhood of pilots for learning to fly with
this style of presentation. Like KEN, I am skeptical
of the value of this . . . as a pilot of an OBAM aircraft,
I'm sure I could become comfortable and confident with
the flashing scenario too.
The fact remains, getting the pilot's attention with
timely and concise information is the primary design
goal. After that, debates about dimming, flashing,
colors and font sizes won't add a great deal of value
beyond accomplishment of the primary goal.
So my friends, if your LOW VOLTS WARNING light is
not of the intensity and location to get your timely
attention, please consider relocating it and/or
going to a higher intensity lamp. This simple
condition would probably have saved our brother pilot
from wrinkling a lot of sheet metal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground plane questions... |
Malcom,
I was sorting though the out-box of my email client and found this
response to your query that wasn't sent. My apologies. I had good
intentions but didn't get the task finished by hitting the "send"
button.
Bob . . .
>
>
>I'm building a Thunder Mustang which is almost 100% carbon fiber. My
>questions are:
>
>1. Do antennas which receive only (ILS/VOR/Marker) need ground planes
>and if so what size.
These are generally horizontally polarized dipoles and do not require
a ground plane. Only VHF COM, Transponders and some marker beacon antennas
need ground planes.
>2. Can a "spray-on" metal coating be used?
Generally no. It's difficult to achieve long lasting,
low resistance connections to such coatings on the
surface of a composite structure.
>3. For Com antenna's how big must the ground plane be (minimum and
>preferred sizes)?
Ground plane radius is same as length of the antenna.
>4. If the ground plane is on the inside of the aircraft (opposite side
>of the carbon skin than the antenna) does it still work?
Yes.
>5. Does the ground plane have to be made of sheet metal and be shaped
>round, square or do strips of copper tape work?
4-8 strips of copper or aluminum same length as antenna and
1/2 to 1-inch wide with GOOD electrical connection to the
coax connector's shell will be fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: astute observers of the human condition |
>
>
>Ah Bob, a man who quotes Heinlein is a man after my own heart.
>
>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
>brianl(at)lloyd.com Suite 201
>+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
>A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
>butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
>accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
>give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
>problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
>efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
>
>--Lazarus Long (AKA Robert A. Heinlein)
I've been a minor student of good teachers for a number of
years. I'm delighted to find that they are oft discovered in
the most unexpected places and times. The neatest thing about
these folk is that concepts offered are as timeless,
lucid and worthy of the label "simple idea" as Ohm's Law,
class I levers, or stoichiometric combustion. During the
heat of political debate I often consider and take guidance
from these clear headed thinkers of the past.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
( "He who exercises government by means of his virtue )
( may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps )
( its place and all the stars turn towards it. If the )
( people be led by laws, and uniformity sought to be )
( given them by punishments, they will try to avoid )
( the punishment, but have no sense of shame. If they )
( be led by virtue, and uniformity sought to be given )
( them by the rules of propriety, they will have the )
( sense of shame, and moreover will become good." )
( Confucius 551-479 B.C. )
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
How about flashing the light in sync with a warning tone. It seems
unlikely a buzzer would just happen to have the same fault as the
light.
Regards,
Matt
>
> Sounds like silly FAA deskjockey talk to me! I agree that status
> indicators should not flash but warning and caution lights?
> Surely nobody ignores a flashing light until explaining it. Removing a
> faulted flickering light bulb on extremely rare occasion is trivial.
> Flickering is not likely to be confused with flashing anyway. A
> light that isn't noticed is useless.
> Ken
>
> George Braly wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >A recent visit with the FAA reveals they are opposed to "flashing"
> warning or caution lights.
> >
> >They claim it is too easy to dismiss them as being simply "faulty"
> lights.
> >
> >Rather than lights indicating a fault.
> >
> >Regards, George
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Flashing lights, buzzers, horns and beepers......reminds me of Three Mile
Island. I'm still wondering how I can execute the proper sequence to save my
life when my electrical system goes down....Let's see flip this switch up,
pull this, cutoff that....call Bob.....
It is now reasonably trivial to have voice warnings. One of the toys in the
box of prototypes (I'll get to it soon.....) is a tiny little 12 second max
voice chip module. Less than a square inch....but imagine the tons of
mischief one can do with it....Or helpful warnings.
And who says electronics isn't fun!
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ
from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even
incapable of forming such opinions." -- Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded magneto wires - Z Figures |
Walter,
Just discovered this unsent message in my outbound mail box. My appologies
for leaving you hanging.
First, have you fixed this problem? If so, what was the solution? If it's
still hanging around, see my belated comments below:
>
>On 09/01 11:19, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> >
> > > > >
> > > >Forgot to mention, I believe it is the alternator as when I
> increase load
> > > >(switch things on) the sound changes.
> > >
> > > aha! excellent data point. This almost always points to
> > > a ground loop. You have more than one ground for avionics/audio
> > > equipment that's reading high current ground returns for high
> > > current equipment like landing lights, pitot heat, etc.
> > >
> > Hello Bob,
> >
> > interesting, I followed the recommendation and grounded each and every
> > equipment to the single 48-tab ground block from B&C, but my panel is
> metal
> > and the avionics rack are directly screwed onto the aluminum as well
> as the
> > whole panel is hinged on the metal cage, I added a separate ground
> from the
> > tab block to the panel but no change. The Battery is connected with a 2AWG
> > cable to the ground tab, on the other side of the firewall a braided cable
> > is going to the engine crankcase.
> >
> > As told the noise is very low and maybe only audible to me because of the
> > ANR headset.
> >
> > What is the best way to tackle this? Should I build the milliohmmeter from
> > Figure 5-3 to investigate and where to lock first, what about if the noise
> > is not there with stopped engine (have to listen next time).
If your avionics find any kind of electrical ground through the
mountings, then there's not much you can do about it . . . you've
got multiple grounds by design. When we write a specification for
any potential victim accessory, we always ask that power and signal
grounds NOT be internally connected to the enclosure. Enclosures
get local ground by virtue of their mechanical mounting . . . we like
to have control of where the signal and power grounds fine their
way to the airplane's ground system. Most of the time, the first
whack at an installation simply attaches the "special" grounds to
the airframe adjacent to the appliance.
I'm working a situation right now in an airplane where a VERY
special ground for the remote display of some radios was poorly
selected. The critter wanders off into the weeds from time to
time and needs a power-up reset to recover. I'm 90% certain that
we'll fix this by repositioning a ground wire. (I won't elaborate
on my opinion of the designed-in vulnerability to this problem).
It may be that you would do well to ground all your avionics
to a separate ground right on or near the avionics tray. This
at least side-steps the built-in vulnerability to ground loops
caused by internal grounding of one or more accessories to the
enclosure.
I'm writing a new chapter for Rev 11 of the 'Connection where
I'll propose a local avionics ground just as I've described.
Lancair has adopted this practice in their panel build shop
and I discussed it with their techs when I did a weekend seminar
in their shop some time ago. They used a terminal block like
this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminal_Strip_Captive_Stud.jpg
This is certainly a CAPABLE product but I think overly
robust for this task. I published a picture of a ground
block fabricated from a D-sub connector a couple of years
ago but I can't put my hands on it. I'm laid out a board
and ordered parts for an avionics ground bus kit. Parts
should be here next week and I'll get the kit up on the
website soon after.
Wiring concept for the avionics ground is illustrated
here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Avionics_Ground_Bus.gif
>Are both Mags grounded to the ground block as well?
No . . . wire mags exactly as shown in the Z-figures. Ground
shield at or close to mags on engine end and use shields to
PROVIDE ground for switches at panel end. Add no other grounds.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting Power |
>
>
>I recall a long discussion about this with reference to lightspeed
>ignitions. One of the solutions proposed was a large capacitor. Did this
>require a blocking diode or ?? so the capacitor would last for a few seconds?
>
>By the way, BlueMountain is very clear about needing a second battery to
>prevent a reset during starting if you want the engine gauges built into
>the EFIS One immediately upon start up. Would this capacitor trick work
>with their 3 amp requirement?
There are several schemes that might support the supply voltage
to these products for milliseconds to seconds required to get
past starter inrush transients. It's relatively easy to size
the capacitor needed:
1 ampere of current flowing into a 1 farad capacitor causes
it to change voltage by 1 volt per second. Nice neat relationship.
Let's assume device to be pampered needs 2 A at minimum voltage
(lets say 10 volts) to stay alive. You're starting with a hopefully
good battery at 12.5 volts. Feed capacitor with a Schottky diode
so it starts from 12.0 volts. Let's say that the capacitor needs
to support the 2A drain for 100 milliseconds. Okay
2 volts delta, 2A, .1 seconds.
I/C = V/S
2/C = 2/.1
2/C = 20
C = 10 Farads
Hmmm . . . that's a pretty fat capacitor. Impossible to consider
a few years ago but in the realm of possibilities now. If we were
supporting a shorter duration of brown-out, say 10 milliseconds,
then a 1 Farad capacitor gets us by. You see how this works?
For the most part, a small battery can masquerade as a capacitor
that is physically much larger in size and weight. As a general
rule, the brown-out battery is a better choice from the perspective
of sized and weight.
I've used capacitors for this very task but at much lower
currents where perhaps 1,000 microfarads will do the trick.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
| Subject: | RE: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Not sure if everyone is aware or not.... but Van's sells a flashing LV
light:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1108757653-384-9&brows
e=electrical&product=alt-warning
Alternator Monitor Warning Light
Description
-----------
This is a simple but effective warning light designed to monitor alternator
operation. This unit will automatically light when the aircraft system
voltage drops below 13 VDC. Circumstances that might produce this are a
failed alternator or a master switch left on after engine shutdown.
The unit flashes for 10 seconds then goes to constant illumination when
voltage drops below 13 volts. This feature sets it apart from other
annunciators. The flashing draws attention to the condition then remains
illuminated so as not to be a pilot distraction thereafter.
An ideal alert for the absentminded!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter motor voltage |
>
>I would like to know what happens to voltage across the starter motor
>when current is interrupted. It probably depends on whether the motor is
>running or stalled at the moment of interruption.
>In the first case I would guess a gentle decay from battery voltage to
>zero as the motor stops spinning. In the second case there might be a
>negative voltage excursion?
>A negative voltage excursion, added to the battery voltage, could exceed
>the breakdown voltage of a solid state contacter.
>Also, when the battery contacter is used as a backup for a welded-closed
>starter contacter the negative voltage spike would appear on the bus.
>A powerdiode Schottky clamp would be a solution. But only if there is a
>problem.
>Does somebody have data or a categorical opinion?
There is a RICH history of DC cranking motors and controlling
devices that go back to Charles Kettering's first efforts to
take the engine crank off the Cadillac in 1912 or so. See:
http://www.ehistory.com/world/amit/display.cfm?amit_id=2327
There is good reason to believe that the inductive nature of
motors and even the wiring used to power them will exhibit some
dynamic effects for the interrupted current flow. You're also
correct that those characteristics will vary depending on speed
and load on the motor at the time of interruption . . . and on
the design of the motor (wound field or permanent magnet).
Energy dumped from the starter has been blamed for a variety
of system ills but the concept didn't take off until we started
bolting 30 volt, germanium transistor to radios and the production
lines experienced too many but not understood failures of
transistors . . . must be "starter spikes" that got 'em.
I've not taken the time to quantify the magnitude and
duration of the transients. It's a low priority given that
a wealth of solid state products seem to live happily tied
to the bus without benefit of an avionics master switch
or special treatment to avoid subjecting the product to
vagaries of the bus during all kinds of cranking scenarios
not only on airplanes but hundreds of millions of cars.
I agree that a solid state starter contactor would be
the most vulnerable to the effects. I would hope that
any supplier of solid state contactors has explored and
identified and accounted for all the spiders and snakes
that live in the world where their product will live.
Until some folk on the list with a test setup, measurement
equipment and time can go "get the numbers", there will
be no advice backed with measurements. I think the risks
are low but it's a good question to ask of the supplier
of any contactor offered for this service.
It would be pretty easy to get some data off a vehicle that
has a starter controlled by external contactor. Lots of
old Ford products have this setup. I'll keep an eye
out for a test subject.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>
>
>Flashing lights, buzzers, horns and beepers......reminds me of Three Mile
>Island. I'm still wondering how I can execute the proper sequence to save my
>life when my electrical system goes down....Let's see flip this switch up,
>pull this, cutoff that....call Bob.....
>
>It is now reasonably trivial to have voice warnings. One of the toys in the
>box of prototypes (I'll get to it soon.....) is a tiny little 12 second max
>voice chip module. Less than a square inch....but imagine the tons of
>mischief one can do with it....Or helpful warnings.
>
>And who says electronics isn't fun!
Eric, drink two beers, get a good night's rest and call me in
the morning :-)
Actually there are a number of aircraft and other vehicles where
voice annunciation is found appropriate . . . you'd want a VERY
distinct voice so that it doesn't go unnoticed amongst the chatter
on approach control. Hmmm . . . how about Jerry Lewis? Shucks, I've
got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
you at no charge!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Shucks, I've got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
> you at no charge!
smoke detector in the shop:
"I said connect the black wire to GROUND, dummy!"
*grin*
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
Terry Watson wrote:
> Sadly, neither the engineer nor the actor is with us anymore. But good
> ideas live on.
Hi Terry,
The actor that played Scotty is James Doohan.
He is still alive, although not doing well.
He has Alzheimer's disease and also suffers from Parkinson's disease,
diabetes and lung fibrosis. I believe his last public
appearance was 31 Aug, 2004. If someone has more current
info, please share.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/31/state1830EDT0111.DTL
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com> |
>Let's say that the capacitor needs to support the 2A drain for 100
milliseconds. Okay 2 volts delta, 2A, .1 seconds.
>I/C = V/S
>2/C = 2/.1
>2/C = 20
>C = 10 Farads
No! C = 0.1 Farad
>Hmmm . . . that's a pretty fat capacitor. Impossible to consider a few
years ago but in the realm of possibilities now. If we were supporting a
shorter
duration of brown-out, say 10 milliseconds, then a 1 Farad capacitor gets us
by. You see how this works?
You would now only need 10,000 microfarads. Assuming you were using an
aluminium electrolytic capacitor, this would be readily available at a 25 V
rating in a can 55 mm long by 40 mm dia.
>For the most part, a small battery can masquerade as a capacitor that is
physically much larger in size and weight. As a general rule, the brown-out
battery is a better choice from the perspective of sized and weight.
> I've used capacitors for this very task but at much lower currents where
perhaps 1,000 microfarads will do the trick.
>Bob . . .
I don't know if you need to worry about protecting the battery from
discharge when the unit is switched off - presumably switching can be
arranged to prevent this. I suspect the capacitor would be the better
solution as it would not need such switching and should last the life of the
installation. I suggest an experiment to see if 10,000 microfarads would
prevent a brownout, increasing to 22,000, 33,000 or 47,000 if necessary
until achieving a satisfactory result.
Best regards
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2-10 switched fuel pump |
Hi Bob I was reading in past articles that you recommended a 2-10 switch
for wiring a dukes fuel pump in the configuration of off- low- high. I have
the switch and in trying to figure it out the only way I can see to get high
is to also have low on at the same time. Is this correct? Any harm to the
pump to power both high and low wires together? Thanks Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
| From: | "Tom Brusehaver" <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
I was originally thinking, yea, blinking lights might be more
of a problem than help, could be the FAA folks were thinking.
Then I went to work, started reading the spec's for some new
FAA software I am working on, and holy cow! talk about blinking.
It is their CHI (Computer Human Interface) spec, and they
got all kinds of stuff blinking, and at different rates! You
do a hand off from your sector to another sector, it blinks
the datablock at one rate. A flight is transitioning your sector
to an airport to land, but is controlled by another controller, the
datablock blinks at another rate. It seems everything has a
possible different rate (configurable software).
Then thinking about audio alerts. We had a controller tell us
about a cessna 337 that landed gear up a couple years ago. The
controller called 'em several times on the radio, "your gear
is up, go around". After they ground to a stop, the controller
got a chance to talk to the pilot, "didn't you hear me tell
you your gear is up?". "We couldn't hear nothing, there was
a loud buzzer going off".
>
> Sounds like silly FAA deskjockey talk to me! I agree that status
> indicators should not flash but warning and caution lights?
> Surely nobody ignores a flashing light until explaining it. Removing a
> faulted flickering light bulb on extremely rare occasion is trivial.
> Flickering is not likely to be confused with flashing anyway. A
> light that isn't noticed is useless.
> Ken
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Fuseable Link question |
Bob & Listers,
If I understand Bob's book correctly, Bob feels that any bus supply wire
which is 6" long or less, does not need circuit protection. I can not get
my main bus power supply wire that short (minimum bend radius and
obstruction considerations).
My main power supply circuit will go through a LittelFuse, 60 amp maxi
fuse and holder. However, I must run a 6AWG wire about 9" to reach this
fuse holder. Should I make a 10AWG fuseable link? This wire will be in free
air. It will be the supply line to both my main bus power and to the
alternator B lead. Or should I simply run 6 AWG wire to the fuse holder
without concern for a possible short in this 9" supply wire? If I use a 10
AWG wire (fuseable link), I can reduce this distance from 9" to 7". Since
this is the supply wire for my main bus, I'm concerned about voltage drop
here. Am I making mountains out of mole hills? How much of a
voltage/efficiency loss would be taken by installing the fuse able link?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <Richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
>A few years ago on the RV list, there was a discussion about audio warnings.
>A very bright engineer working on an integrated avionics package for
>experimental aircraft here in the Seattle area mentioned that his neighbor
>was the actor who played the flight engineer on the original Star Trek
>program. Was his name Scotty? It was great fun listening to the various
>possible "reports from the engine room" that they were going to get him to
>record as voice alarms.
About 10 years ago Majel Barette - Gene Roddenberry's wife and the voice of
the computer on Star Trek - The Next Generation, among other things -
agreed to record a series of audio warnings for me. A few days later our
prototype crashed and we never did it.
That was shortly after we did a missing man formation for Gene's memorial
service with Long EZ's, but that's another story.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Corbalis' Buzzer |
Leo,
Sounds like a good design you have. Do you have a means to mute the buzzer
once it has your attention? Does it start buzzing when you apply electrical
power and stop once you get the engine running?
Stan Sutterfield
Tampa
www.rv-8a.net
In a message dated 2/18/2005 2:57:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
When I built my Zodiac 601 HDS I put in a GRT engine monitor. The blinking
light from no oil pressure was supposed to remind me turn off the battery
switch. After the second flight, parked facing the late afternoon sun on the
ramp, I missed the light and ran the battery totally flat. I put a simple 2
1/2 or 3 inch Radio Shack buzzer in paralell with the light. The light has a
blinker circuit so just get a simple steady tone one. The buzzer is stuck to
the back side of the panel with 3M double sided foam tape. Its been there 7
years.
The buzzer is loud enough to hear clearly at full power thru my Peltor 7000
passive headset. The tone is probably higher than the ANR headsets try to
cancel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Tim -
I have a wiring diagram for this. Attached is a .pdf. The color scheme is
a bit weird for now. We are using green to show a wire is installed. Let
me know if you have any questions or comments. I wired this on the panel
yesterday.
Ooops, I forgot about no attachments to this list. I'll email it directly.
Cheers,
John
>
> Hi Bob I was reading in past articles that you recommended a 2-10
> switch
> for wiring a dukes fuel pump in the configuration of off- low- high. I
> have
> the switch and in trying to figure it out the only way I can see to get
> high
> is to also have low on at the same time. Is this correct? Any harm
> to the
> pump to power both high and low wires together? Thanks Tim
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing |
In a message dated 02/18/2005 7:02:44 PM Central Standard Time,
cozytom(at)mn.rr.com writes:
I was originally thinking, yea, blinking lights might be more
of a problem than help, could be the FAA folks were thinking.
>>>
I've got an LED annunciator dead-nuts centered in front of me as high on the
panel as practical that B L I N K S when my EIS4000 engine monitor
encounters some out-of-programmed- parameter "issue" and I've NEVER missed a
call- I almost look forward to the 30 minute reminders to check fuel status.
Plus it comes on solid when my Aeroelectric LVWM sees something it doesn't like,
the oil pressure craps, the flaps aren't all the way up, the canopy isn't
latched or either fuel tank is down by 2/3's. Works just fine and have never
missed anything the stupid thing is telling me, day or nite- what could be
simpler? I'm also wired for audio alerts but not active on this yet, and STILL
haven't missed any alarms.... I'm sorry, but the dark-n-stormy story of our
comrade in Canada just reinforces everything I've learned here on the A-list- If
my
all-electric-on-a-budget airplane ever falls from the sky because of an
electrical issue, it's because I probably climbed out of the cockpit, reached
through the oil door, ripped the battery from it's moorings and tossed the damn
thing overboard!
Sorry for preaching to the choir, but this RV driver is one happy camper when
it comes to shoving electrons around an airframe!
From The PossumWorks in TN, confirmed Nuckollhead:
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>
>
>
> >Let's say that the capacitor needs to support the 2A drain for 100
>milliseconds. Okay 2 volts delta, 2A, .1 seconds.
>
> >I/C = V/S
>
> >2/C = 2/.1
>
> >2/C = 20
>
> >C = 10 Farads
>
>No! C = 0.1 Farad
Very good! Damn! My teachers told me to watch those transpositions.
> >Hmmm . . . that's a pretty fat capacitor. Impossible to consider a few
>years ago but in the realm of possibilities now. If we were supporting a
>shorter
>duration of brown-out, say 10 milliseconds, then a 1 Farad capacitor gets us
>by. You see how this works?
>
>You would now only need 10,000 microfarads. Assuming you were using an
>aluminium electrolytic capacitor, this would be readily available at a 25 V
>rating in a can 55 mm long by 40 mm dia.
>
> >For the most part, a small battery can masquerade as a capacitor that is
>physically much larger in size and weight. As a general rule, the brown-out
>battery is a better choice from the perspective of sized and weight.
>
> > I've used capacitors for this very task but at much lower currents where
>perhaps 1,000 microfarads will do the trick.
>
> >Bob . . .
>
>I don't know if you need to worry about protecting the battery from
>discharge when the unit is switched off - presumably switching can be
>arranged to prevent this. I suspect the capacitor would be the better
>solution as it would not need such switching and should last the life of the
>installation. I suggest an experiment to see if 10,000 microfarads would
>prevent a brownout, increasing to 22,000, 33,000 or 47,000 if necessary
>until achieving a satisfactory result.
Good catch Mike. Yes, depending on a variety of variables,
there may be opportunities to press the lowly capacitor into
service as a temporary battery.
Keep an eye on that grey-bearded ol' fart back in Spamcanville.
He's got one foot in a bucket, another in the fire . . . but
he DID quit picking up the wrong end of a soldering iron
years ago.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
| Subject: | Voice annunciation. |
" Actually there are a number of aircraft and other vehicles where
voice annunciation is found appropriate . . . you'd want a VERY
distinct voice so that it doesn't go unnoticed amongst the chatter
on approach control. Hmmm . . . how about Jerry Lewis? Shucks, I've
got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
you at no charge!
Bob . . ."
Now if you wanted a nice cultured(!) English accent you could always give me a
call .................
Rob (the ex pat)
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation. |
Sorry guys but I also recall reading studies that proved that male
pilots are much more likely to notice and respond to certain female
voices compared to male voice warnings.... ;)
Ken
Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
>
> " Actually there are a number of aircraft and other vehicles where
> voice annunciation is found appropriate . . . you'd want a VERY
> distinct voice so that it doesn't go unnoticed amongst the chatter
> on approach control. Hmmm . . . how about Jerry Lewis? Shucks, I've
> got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
> you at no charge!
> Bob . . ."
>
>Now if you wanted a nice cultured(!) English accent you could always give me a
call .................
>Rob (the ex pat)
>Rob W M Shipley
>N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
>La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation. |
The ACS2002 and AF-2500 have a female voice for aural warnings.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com
It definitely gets your attention! This thing kicks butt.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation.
>
> Sorry guys but I also recall reading studies that proved that male
> pilots are much more likely to notice and respond to certain female
> voices compared to male voice warnings.... ;)
> Ken
>
>
> Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > " Actually there are a number of aircraft and other vehicles where
> > voice annunciation is found appropriate . . . you'd want a VERY
> > distinct voice so that it doesn't go unnoticed amongst the chatter
> > on approach control. Hmmm . . . how about Jerry Lewis? Shucks, I've
> > got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
> > you at no charge!
> > Bob . . ."
> >
> >Now if you wanted a nice cultured(!) English accent you could always give
me a call .................
> >Rob (the ex pat)
> >Rob W M Shipley
> >N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
> >La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Burton" <notrubce(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Two trim switches |
I'm converting a single panel mounted Ray Allen trim switch to two stick mounted
hat switches. I realize I need a relay deck to convert the SPST stick switches
to DPDT but do I need to install two relay decks, one for each stick switch,
or can I simply joint the wires from each switch together before they connect
to the relay deck?
Charlie Burton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two trim switches |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Charlie Hi
> I'm converting a single panel mounted Ray Allen trim switch to two stick
> mounted hat switches.
Matt who hosts this List has a neat device call a Governor' that does what
you want on his Matronics Website:
http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm
I have fitted one with a Panel TRIM Sx for back up and to Coolie Hats on
Control sticks. It's fine.
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation. |
I respond well to my wife's voice - many years of training.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation.
>
> Sorry guys but I also recall reading studies that proved that male
> pilots are much more likely to notice and respond to certain female
> voices compared to male voice warnings.... ;)
> Ken
>
>
> Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > " Actually there are a number of aircraft and other vehicles where
> > voice annunciation is found appropriate . . . you'd want a VERY
> > distinct voice so that it doesn't go unnoticed amongst the chatter
> > on approach control. Hmmm . . . how about Jerry Lewis? Shucks, I've
> > got one of those stand-out voices. I'll record your phrases for
> > you at no charge!
> > Bob . . ."
> >
> >Now if you wanted a nice cultured(!) English accent you could always give
me a call .................
> >Rob (the ex pat)
> >Rob W M Shipley
> >N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
> >La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation. |
On recent flight I was in an exit row, and the flight attendant
started her little orientation to us by saying they have a rule
that any men in the exit row must be married, because we are
used to taking orders from women.
Mickey
Tony Babb wrote:
>
> I respond well to my wife's voice - many years of training.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken" <klehman(at)albedo.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation.
>
>
>
>>
>>Sorry guys but I also recall reading studies that proved that male
>>pilots are much more likely to notice and respond to certain female
>>voices compared to male voice warnings.... ;)
>>Ken
>>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corbalis' Buzzer |
Yes. Its a stupid buzzer. If the light comes on the buzzer comes on too. I
turn the master ON - yell CLEAR - and turn the key to start. The EIS takes a
few seconds to boot up so no beep. I also have an "ice cube" relay in
paralell with the starter solonoid which disconnects all the electronics for
protection during the start. NC contacts rated at 40 amps. which restarts
the EIS at switch release. Its only a couple of seconds and then the EIS
senses 20 psi. oil pr. and stops or never starts the light and beep. Then I
turn ON the radios.
Works great
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Speedy11(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Corbalis' Buzzer
>
> Leo,
> Sounds like a good design you have. Do you have a means to mute the
buzzer
> once it has your attention? Does it start buzzing when you apply
electrical
> power and stop once you get the engine running?
> Stan Sutterfield
> Tampa
> www.rv-8a.net
>
> In a message dated 2/18/2005 2:57:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> When I built my Zodiac 601 HDS I put in a GRT engine monitor. The blinking
> light from no oil pressure was supposed to remind me turn off the battery
> switch. After the second flight, parked facing the late afternoon sun on
the
> ramp, I missed the light and ran the battery totally flat. I put a simple
2
> 1/2 or 3 inch Radio Shack buzzer in paralell with the light. The light has
a
> blinker circuit so just get a simple steady tone one. The buzzer is stuck
to
> the back side of the panel with 3M double sided foam tape. Its been there
7
> years.
> The buzzer is loud enough to hear clearly at full power thru my Peltor
7000
> passive headset. The tone is probably higher than the ANR headsets try to
> cancel.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuseable Link question |
>
>Bob & Listers,
> If I understand Bob's book correctly, Bob feels that any bus supply wire
>which is 6" long or less, does not need circuit protection. I can not get
>my main bus power supply wire that short (minimum bend radius and
>obstruction considerations).
First, know that the "6-inch rule" is a hand-me-down from
the darkest ages of electrical systems installations in airplanes.
I recall statements at Cessna in 1964 that short wires tied to
the bus behind the breaker panel did not need to be protected
because they were less than 6" in length.
Now, where did that number come from? The folks who thought it
up are probably dead. Was there some careful consideration of
the amount of smoke one could expect from then popular nylon
over PVC wire? Hmmm . . . if tefzel smoke is more/less, unpleasant/
hazardous then perhaps the rule of thumb should be 4 inches/10 inches.
I'll bet we could get them to debate this for at least a couple of
years before generating a new rule.
> My main power supply circuit will go through a LittelFuse, 60 amp maxi
>fuse and holder. However, I must run a 6AWG wire about 9" to reach this
>fuse holder. Should I make a 10AWG fuseable link? This wire will be in free
>air. It will be the supply line to both my main bus power and to the
>alternator B lead. Or should I simply run 6 AWG wire to the fuse holder
>without concern for a possible short in this 9" supply wire? If I use a 10
>AWG wire (fuseable link), I can reduce this distance from 9" to 7". Since
>this is the supply wire for my main bus, I'm concerned about voltage drop
>here. Am I making mountains out of mole hills? How much of a
>voltage/efficiency loss would be taken by installing the fuseible link?
Run a solid piece of wire for whatever length it takes to do the
job neatly and with good craftsmanship.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuseable Link question |
Good advice. At some point, you can't protect everything. The
probability of a wiring short is proportional to the number of
connections it makes, the number of corners it turns, the number of
adjacent wires in the bundle, and the vibration it is susceptible to.
I don't think length matters in this equation.
Murphy will get you, though... at some point you'll drop a wrench across
two terminals. I did this on a 200V battery pack for an electic
vehicle. It's a good way to cut steel and burst your eardrums in one
move.
Vern Little, RV-9A
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob & Listers,
>> If I understand Bob's book correctly, Bob feels that any bus supply wire
>>which is 6" long or less, does not need circuit protection. I can not get
>>my main bus power supply wire that short (minimum bend radius and
>>obstruction considerations).
>>
>>
>
> First, know that the "6-inch rule" is a hand-me-down from
> the darkest ages of electrical systems installations in airplanes.
> I recall statements at Cessna in 1964 that short wires tied to
> the bus behind the breaker panel did not need to be protected
> because they were less than 6" in length.
>
> Now, where did that number come from? The folks who thought it
> up are probably dead. Was there some careful consideration of
> the amount of smoke one could expect from then popular nylon
> over PVC wire? Hmmm . . . if tefzel smoke is more/less, unpleasant/
> hazardous then perhaps the rule of thumb should be 4 inches/10 inches.
> I'll bet we could get them to debate this for at least a couple of
> years before generating a new rule.
>
>
>
>> My main power supply circuit will go through a LittelFuse, 60 amp maxi
>>fuse and holder. However, I must run a 6AWG wire about 9" to reach this
>>fuse holder. Should I make a 10AWG fuseable link? This wire will be in free
>>air. It will be the supply line to both my main bus power and to the
>>alternator B lead. Or should I simply run 6 AWG wire to the fuse holder
>>without concern for a possible short in this 9" supply wire? If I use a 10
>>AWG wire (fuseable link), I can reduce this distance from 9" to 7". Since
>>this is the supply wire for my main bus, I'm concerned about voltage drop
>>here. Am I making mountains out of mole hills? How much of a
>>voltage/efficiency loss would be taken by installing the fuseible link?
>>
>>
>
>
> Run a solid piece of wire for whatever length it takes to do the
> job neatly and with good craftsmanship.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
>
>Hi Bob I was reading in past articles that you recommended a 2-10 switch
>for wiring a dukes fuel pump in the configuration of off- low- high. I have
>the switch and in trying to figure it out the only way I can see to get high
>is to also have low on at the same time. Is this correct? Any harm to the
>pump to power both high and low wires together? Thanks Tim
If this is the pump I'm thinking of, the hi/lo power wires are taps
on a series wound motor. Tying them both together would get you
high speed and powering just the low speed wire would get you
low speed. The wiring for a 2-10 switch to power one wire at a time
is posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio isolation amp board |
>
>Bob - is the circuit board for your isolation amp available? If so,
>where?
>
Yes. See
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
In a message dated 2/19/2005 11:05:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
b.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
Bob I think that drawing may be incorrect Should not #5 be jumped to #1
instead of #3.
While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in both
high and low configurations. One Light on with either high or low? Thanks
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> Link question |
| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable |
Link question
question
At 07:44 PM 2/19/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Bob & Listers,
> > If I understand Bob's book correctly, Bob feels that any bus supply wire
> >which is 6" long or less, does not need circuit protection. I can not get
> >my main bus power supply wire that short (minimum bend radius and
> >obstruction considerations).
>
> First, know that the "6-inch rule" is a hand-me-down from
> the darkest ages of electrical systems installations in airplanes.
> I recall statements at Cessna in 1964 that short wires tied to
> the bus behind the breaker panel did not need to be protected
> because they were less than 6" in length.
>
> Now, where did that number come from? The folks who thought it
> up are probably dead. Was there some careful consideration of
> the amount of smoke one could expect from then popular nylon
> over PVC wire? Hmmm . . . if tefzel smoke is more/less, unpleasant/
> hazardous then perhaps the rule of thumb should be 4 inches/10 inches.
> I'll bet we could get them to debate this for at least a couple of
> years before generating a new rule.
>
> > My main power supply circuit will go through a LittelFuse, 60 amp maxi
> >fuse and holder. However, I must run a 6AWG wire about 9" to reach this
> >fuse holder. Should I make a 10AWG fuseable link? This wire will be in free
> >air. It will be the supply line to both my main bus power and to the
> >alternator B lead. Or should I simply run 6 AWG wire to the fuse holder
> >without concern for a possible short in this 9" supply wire? If I use a 10
> >AWG wire (fuseable link), I can reduce this distance from 9" to 7". Since
> >this is the supply wire for my main bus, I'm concerned about voltage drop
> >here. Am I making mountains out of mole hills? How much of a
> >voltage/efficiency loss would be taken by installing the fuseible link?
>
>
> Run a solid piece of wire for whatever length it takes to do the
> job neatly and with good craftsmanship.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available for
6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's "vulnerability"
by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Tim -
We wired the power from the input terminal (2) thru terminal 1 back to
terminal 5. When you go to the mid position of the 2-10 switch, power is
fed from 2 to 1 to 5 to terminal 6 to the low wire (white) of the pump.
When you go from the mid to the up-position of the switch lever, power
goes from 2 to 1 to 5 to 4 to the high wire of the pump (black). In the up
position of the lever, power is thus removed from 6 (low). We tapped the
low caution light power off pin 6 and the high caution off of pin 4.
This was with the keyway up.
We tested the basic circuitry on the installed pump and it worked. We did
not check the lights, however.We could always use a sanity check on this,
so if you bench test the switching, we'd appreciate feedback.
As Bob mentioned some time ago, the lights, when wired this way do not
tell you if the pump is working and the pressurized fuel is making it to
the engine. Originally, we wanted a light to remind us that the pump is on
in the high mode or on in the low mode.
Cheers,
John
>
>
> In a message dated 2/19/2005 11:05:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> b.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
>
>
> Bob I think that drawing may be incorrect Should not #5 be jumped to #1
> instead of #3.
> While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in
> both
> high and low configurations. One Light on with either high or low?
> Thanks
> Tim
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable Link question |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Charlie -
If I understand what you mean by "flag" style terminals, they are bent at
45 degrees or 90. Thomas & Betts makes then for # 6 welding cable. They
are the color code blue to match their crimper. Their catalog number for
1/4" stud hole and 90 degrees is: 54105UB. The 5/16" stud is 54135UB.
Website: www.tnb.com
The problem with these is that very few businesses carry them. They will
special order them and you'll pay for a minimum order of like 25. Welding
supply shops in the Charlotte, NC area do not carry them.They are a great
help with orienting that heavy cabling and for aligning the cable in a way
to keep pressure off of the battery terminals. Steinair, B&C, Terminal
Town are you reading this? Perhaps someone on this list would know a
source for buying small quantities of them for #6 , #4 (brown) and #2
(green) welding cable.
Cheers,
John
> Bob,
> Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available
> for
> 6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's
> "vulnerability"
> by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
> Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
>
>
>In a message dated 2/19/2005 11:05:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>b.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/2-10_Hi-Lo_Boost.pdf
>
>
>Bob I think that drawing may be incorrect Should not #5 be jumped to #1
>instead of #3.
>While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in both
>high and low configurations. One Light on with either high
>or low? Thanks
> Tim
You're exactly right sir. Good call and thank you!
The drawing has been revised.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Tim -
On Bob's revised diagram, couldn't you tap one wire off of the number 1 or
number 5 terminal for a one lamp annunciator? Either is hot in low and
high because they are the feed path for both positions. They are both off
when the switch is in the off position.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-10 switched fuel pump |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Tim -
On Bob's revised diagram, couldn't you tap one wire off of the number 1 or
number 5 terminal for a one lamp annunciator? Either is hot in low and
high because they are the feed path for both positions. They are both off
when the switch is in the off position.
John
> While I have you how would you wire a pump on light to show pump on in
> both high and low configurations. One Light on with either high or
> low? Thanks
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation.
The ACS2002 and AF-2500 have a female voice for aural warnings.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com
It definitely gets your attention! This thing kicks butt.
For many years, the lady has been referred to as Moaning Millie, Bitching
Betty or Nagging Nellie. and my son tells me she's a life-saver.......F-18s.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Voice annunciation |
Hi All-
Two companies ago I flew a plane with 13 different voice annunciations in
addition to the GPWS. The voice was a husky feminine one that we referred
to as 'Natashia'. It was pretty cool... for about 2 weeks. After that it
got pretty annoying.
The planes I've flown since all had voice annunciations, but only for the
GPWS. That makes them (and your imminent demise) really stand out. I
really prefer this arrangement, for what it's worth.
The simplest / most effective convention I've been exposed to includes a
red light and three audio chirps for a condition that may kill you if you
don't address it pretty quick, and a single chirp with an amber light for a
condition that will cause further equipment damage or perhaps kill you
somewhere down the road if you don't deal with it at some point in time.
What I'd like for my plane is a dimmable annunciator light system atop the
glare shield that illuminates whenever a monitored system goes out of
parameters. Whenever a light first illuminates, there would be a single
chirp in the audio system.
The big point here is that no one failure ever killed a pilot. However,
several small and seemingly unrelated things can sometimes synergise in a
most unpleasant way. Having the audio chirp wouldn't so much alert you
that there is something bad happening, but rather that ANOTHER something
bad is happening once you already have a light(s) illuminated.
The downside for me is that this represents a technology that I'm not
really motivated to master, at least not at this point.
FWIW, YMMV...
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: System analysis |
>
>
>Bob and list:
>
>
>I am planning my electrical system and have just re-read AEC chapter 17
>Electrical System Reliability, and STILL am having trouble deciding the
>ignition/aux battery/aux alternator mix. I think I need an algorithm
>for analyzing redundancy and/or a hierarchy of the most failure-prone
>primary electrical components.
>
>
>First, here's the application: O-360 powered day/night VFR bush plane
>with gravity-fed fuel (boost pump for TO & Ldg.) dual electronic
>ignitions, either EMAG/PMAG or two PMAGS but leaning towards one of
>each. All-electric panel, consisting of Dynon D1o-A EFIS with analog
>airspeed and altimeter backup, a skid/slip ball, magnetic and electronic
>compasses, and a GPS with moving map PDA ; and a Grand Rapids EIS.
>
>
>How many simultaneous electrical/electronic failures is it reasonable to
>guard against?
None. Assuming you took reasonable care probability
of multiple failures of truly critical appliances in
a single tank of fuel is very remote. The only cases
where I've learned of really catastrophic failures was
in amateur built or very poorly maintained spam-cans.
Every scenario likely to cause you to break a sweat
takes a STRING of conditions to trigger the event.
The worst cases almost always include elements of
poor craftsmanship and/or ignorance of history. Poor
choice of architecture and absolute quality of parts
are very low probability for root cause of an accident.
>Could an alternator or regulator failure smoke an electronic
>ignition--or both of them--thus taking down everything?
Why not run p-mags and ELIMINATE them from consideration?
>If the one PMAG self-destructs, the engine becomes electrically
>dependent, but my single RG battery should keep the EMAG operating.
Accurate observation. Now, what is the probability of
self-destruction? What are the highly stressed parts
in a p-mag? Unless the manufacturer says "accomplish
refurbishment/overhaul ever x-hours" one might conclude
that there are no highly stressed, mechanical or electrical
wearing parts within . . . unlike our venerable magnetos.
>If an alternator/regulator failure can't possibly damage the electronic
>ignitions, then the engine is not technically dependent on the aircraft
>electrical system and the engine can take care of itself temporarily.
>Per AEC, I shouldn't need two batteries if I use one good RG and take
>care of it and replace it annually. Bob says the failure of a fresh RG
>battery is about as likely as losing a prop bolt.
There you go. I'm working a project on an RV-7 that
promises to be the designers dream. Budget is no restraint.
So, what would I recommend for an airplane that's carrying
dual EFIS, dual GPS aided autopilots, and dual electronic ignition?
First, we're going with dual p-mags. We'll start out with
Figure Z-13 but with a look-ahead to later upgrade to
either Z-13/20 or Z-14. The goal is to make it all play
with attractive failure mode effects analysis with stock
Z-13 . . . for a potential weight savings of 12# over
a minimized Z-14.
>That leaves the alternator/regulator. I gather that this is the most
>vulnerable link in the chain. The AEC list archives is awash with stuff
>on what to do about alternators that wig out. Granted that a B&C
>alternator would reduce the likelihood of an alternator failure, but
>"Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: Things break." So
>I consider backing up the alternator with an SD8 and overvoltage kit,
>for $500. That's on top of the $638 for the main alternator, an L40 and
>LR3 regulator, which might be very good but will someday croak. Heck, a
>V-belt could break-not the alternator's fault.
Okay, ASSUME the alternator is going to quit. Are you willing
to craft an e-bus load and an operating/maintenance philosophy
that makes this a no-sweat scenario? Review the dark-n-stormy
night story in Chapter 17. Any ONE of several actions on the
part of the aircraft owner would have certainly mitigated if
not eliminated the set-up that put our hero into that situation.
(1) make sure ov system WORKS. (2) keep battery fresh enough to
carry ENDURANCE LOADS for a KNOWN number of minutes after (3)
active notification of low voltage comes on.
>So if I have a very reliable back-up alternator, why not realize some
>savings and install as the main alternator a $110 automotive 55-amp
>internally-regulated unit, with a crowbar circuit and maybe one of those
>Whack Jack things? I mean, some of us homebuilders are doing it to
>build a better mousetrap AND save money.
Most assuredly. It's true that one can pile lots of back-ups-to-
backups in the system but the risks are (1) operational complexity
that trips up a stressed out pilot trying to deal with the
less than ideal situation, (2) weight, (3) $time$ purchase, install
and maintain. Until the p-mags came along, our deliberations
suggested a second battery for dual ignition airplanes. Now,
(at least for traditional aircraft engines) we can concentrate
exclusively on systems issues other than power plant which
drives system weights and costs down yet one more little step.
>One more thing. I estimate peak electrical load at about 19 amps (night
>landing with everything on). Rock bottom E-bus load about 5 amps.
>Maximum fuel endurance about 6 hours. Should I think about anything
>less than a 34 amp hour battery?
You betcha. This a shoo-in for Z-13/8 which gives you 8 amps
e-bus support IRRESPECTIVE of battery size. Trade lots of pounds
in plastic and lead for a 4# alternator installation seems like
an easy choice to me. If push comes to shove, you can do Z-13
on steroids with Z-13/20. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Architecture
But the last thing you want to do is add lead to the airplane.
Energy available in a battery is no match for energy available
from an engine driven power source for weight, endurance, and
lowest cost of ownership.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Link question |
| Subject: | Re: Large Flag ring terminals was Fuseable |
Link question
Link question
>
>Bob,
> Thank you for your advice. Are "flag" style ring terminals available for
>6AWG? I can reduce the length of this wire and reduce it's "vulnerability"
>by using such a terminal. Where might I find them?
>Charlie Kuss
You'll spend more time looking for one than it takes to make one.
Pick a twist drill diameter that's a slip fit over the exposed
strands of 6AWG. Take a 5/8 or 3/4" piece of soft copper tubing
and mash it in stages in a vise with the last few squishing operations
forming the tubing down over the shank of your twist drill. See
Figure 9-5 in the 'Connection.
Use a unibit to drill a stud clearance hole in the terminal's
flag and then solder the terminal to your wire as described in
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
These terminals are available commercially but you only need
a couple . . . you can have them fabricated and installed in
less time that it will take you to find and order them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Solid state relay recommendation |
Hi all,
I need a pair of solid state relays for my altitude hold project. The load is
quite small and non inductive and the drive signal will be from PIC microprocessor
running on 5 volts. Could someone make a recommendation, preferably something
available at Mouser or Digikey
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter/voltmeter Gauge |
>
>Looking for a source for a reliable but inexpensive (if Possible)
>ammeter/voltmeter panel mount gauge for my Jabiru 3300 engine
>with a 20 amp single phase permanent magnet alternator.
>I'm using a Stratomaster Ultra X that has a voltmeter indicator,
>so maybe just an ammeter would be needed??
Voltmeters and ammeters are diagnostic tools, not flight
operations tools. I'd be perfectly comfortable flying
in airplanes with active notification of low voltage and
well maintained ov protection systems. If you'd
like a small ammeter, I can fix you up with a miniature
loadmeter. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Loadmeter_2.jpg
This 1.5" square instrument will be added to our website
later this year but I could get a pre-production item
out for you. We're considering an expanded scale voltmeter
in the same package. We were forced into this new product
when Westach was unable to provide me with an instrument
of sufficient quality. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
This loadmeter features a movement by Tripplet and
has a zero-adjuster.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter motor voltage |
Thank you Bob...
> Until some folk on the list with a test setup, measurement
> equipment and time can go "get the numbers", there will
> be no advice backed with measurements. I think the risks
> are low but it's a good question to ask of the supplier
> of any contactor offered for this service.
>
> It would be pretty easy to get some data off a vehicle that
> has a starter controlled by external contactor. Lots of
> old Ford products have this setup. I'll keep an eye
> out for a test subject.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Testing "stalled" might not be so easy ofcourse.
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voice annunciation |
My experience with the Rocky Mountain Micromonitor is that it will
generate alarm tones in the headset and/or a flashing light if any
parameter goes out of limits or if any of three general purpose sense
inputs are activated.
I drive my warning lamp, plus stall, flap motor, and boost pump
indicators from a dimmable annuciator controller. See
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx for more information.
The indicators don't have audible warnings-- it would be nice to add
one to the stall warning... It's easy to wire a piezo buzzer in parallel
with the lamp, but I've found that passengers really get upset when
alarms sound.
As for voice alerts, I use a Monroy ATD-300 traffic monitor. It has a
nice pleasant female voice that alerts me to traffic or low voltage. In
this case, you should have your eyes outside and your ears listening for
warnings.
Vern Little RV-9A
Glen Matejcek wrote:
>
>Hi All-
>
>Two companies ago I flew a plane with 13 different voice annunciations in
>addition to the GPWS. The voice was a husky feminine one that we referred
>to as 'Natashia'. It was pretty cool... for about 2 weeks. After that it
>got pretty annoying.
>
>The planes I've flown since all had voice annunciations, but only for the
>GPWS. That makes them (and your imminent demise) really stand out. I
>really prefer this arrangement, for what it's worth.
>
>The simplest / most effective convention I've been exposed to includes a
>red light and three audio chirps for a condition that may kill you if you
>don't address it pretty quick, and a single chirp with an amber light for a
>condition that will cause further equipment damage or perhaps kill you
>somewhere down the road if you don't deal with it at some point in time.
>
>What I'd like for my plane is a dimmable annunciator light system atop the
>glare shield that illuminates whenever a monitored system goes out of
>parameters. Whenever a light first illuminates, there would be a single
>chirp in the audio system.
>
>The big point here is that no one failure ever killed a pilot. However,
>several small and seemingly unrelated things can sometimes synergise in a
>most unpleasant way. Having the audio chirp wouldn't so much alert you
>that there is something bad happening, but rather that ANOTHER something
>bad is happening once you already have a light(s) illuminated.
>
>The downside for me is that this represents a technology that I'm not
>really motivated to master, at least not at this point.
>
>FWIW, YMMV...
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Powerdiode failure mode |
I would like to know what happens to powerdiodes when they are destroyed
by excessive dissipation. Are they guaranteed to become open circuits or
is there a possibility of a short?
I hope somebody has the data.
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Audio isolation amp board |
| From: | "Dee L. Conger" <dee(at)ansatainc.com> |
Thanks Bob. I'm working on a Yak50 single seat airplane - I'd like to install
two com radio and an i-pod input and was thinking about using your isolation amp
as a sort of audio panel. Obviously, no need for an intercom, so this looks
like just the ticket. Any concerns in using it for this application?
dee
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio isolation amp board
>
>Bob - is the circuit board for your isolation amp available? If so,
>where?
>
Yes. See
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Antenna / aerial questions |
Dear Bob et al
The radio antenna kit supplied by the manufacturer of my kit contains 6m
of RG58C/U cable. It also contains some copper tape for the
manufacturing of a dipole antenna in the rear of the fin. Toroids were
also supplied and the aircraft is of fibreglass construction.
1) Considering cost/benefit etc, would I be wise to use RG400 cable
instead ?
2) Instead of using the copper tape (others have reported it cracking
after a while from temp changes), would it be okay to bring the inner
part of the aerial cable out through the braid and make the dipole of
these two cable components rather than other material ?
3) Use the toroids or not ?
Comments most welcome.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa 281 in Oz.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powerdiode failure mode |
Large power diodes almost always fail shorted since the package is very
robust and holds the silicon chip in place as it destroys itself. Of
course, if you REALLY overdo it, a lead could melt I suppose :-) .
Smaller diodes (which may still be a so called power diode - depends on
your definition) can fail either way depending on the magnitude of the
overload. If it is big enough to melt one of the (internal) connecting
leads then it fails open. If the leads hang together then it will fail
shorted.
Bottom line is that it depends on the actual construction of the diode
in question.
No guarantees. Sorry.
Dick Tasker
Jan de Jong wrote:
>
>I would like to know what happens to powerdiodes when they are destroyed
>by excessive dissipation. Are they guaranteed to become open circuits or
>is there a possibility of a short?
>I hope somebody has the data.
>
>Jan de Jong
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Evenson" <revenson(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one marked "HIGH"
and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon for positive
and negative leads?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
>
>
>Dear Bob et al
>
>The radio antenna kit supplied by the manufacturer of my kit contains 6m
>of RG58C/U cable. It also contains some copper tape for the
>manufacturing of a dipole antenna in the rear of the fin. Toroids were
>also supplied and the aircraft is of fibreglass construction.
>
>1) Considering cost/benefit etc, would I be wise to use RG400 cable
>instead ?
>
>2) Instead of using the copper tape (others have reported it cracking
>after a while from temp changes), would it be okay to bring the inner
>part of the aerial cable out through the braid and make the dipole of
>these two cable components rather than other material ?
>
>3) Use the toroids or not ?
tens of thousands of airplanes are flying with RG-58 in the
VHF comm system . . . The toroids don't do much but they
don't hurt either.
I've often wondered how well thin foil antennas perform when
bonded directly to composite shells. The differences in
thermal coefficient of expansion will probably cause cracks.
The width of the foil is a plus as it improves bandwidth of
the antenna. VHF comm has a greater spread of useful frequencies
(percentage wise) than any other service we use. The thin, flat
conductors are attractive. Making them out of copper makes them
solderable too.
Hmmmm . . . come to think of it, etched circuit board material
comes in big sheets of 0.062" fiberglas and epoxy with .0013"
copper sheet bonded to it. I've never heard any concern about
hairline cracks due to temperature cycling. I suspect your
worries don't have much foundation in physics. It's very
likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
have will perform as expected for longer than you will
own the airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
| From: | "Dee L. Conger" <dee(at)ansatainc.com> |
I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power several
very nice JET attitude gyros. Does anyone know where I might find such
a thing? These indicators only require about 100va so a small unit would be just
fine. I'm not interested in one of the bulky rotary converters - a nice small
static inverter would work best.
Dee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
theer are a number of aspects to warning systems which have not been made
clear in the exchanges I've seen lately. This is not to talk down to others
but to make known the advantages of such a system to those who may not be
familiar with modern large commercial aircraft.
The Master Caution and Warning panel contains both Warning [red] and Caution
[orange] Switch-Lights. A switch light tells you one thing when it's at
rest, and another when it's been activated. It, too, shows different colours
according to the severity of its function. For instance, in the original
L1011 pretakeoff item where I was, the last item before throttle-up was a
black cockpit (no beefs).
When a 'killer' item exists and is detected by the system, a red warning
switchlight goes from black [dark, unlit] to red, and an aural sound is
generated. This does two things - it tells the crew something serious is
wrong and it tells the lawyers to pay attention to the accuracy and
comprehension of the crew - the tapes. When the pilot designated [depends on
the airline] reacts, he first states the fault detected (tape again) and
then pushes the switchlight. This 'resets' the system for the next warning,
tells the lawyers what the pilot thinks [tape] and times the coming
reaction. It also might indicate the steps taken in a semi-automatic system
(such as three-man crew down to two might have). The tape then records the
separate and combined actions of the crew and their proper order.
This usually presumes at least two fliers, one concentrating on control of
the aircraft and one reacting to the warning which then sets off a series of
practiced functions, each as prescribed by the manual.
When you are alone in the plane, you are the flier, the reaction,and the
lawyer all rolled up into one - so the heat's on you.
I believe this might be one time when Electric Bob - and a few others - may
agree that a sound to add to the complexity - might be excusable? I intend
anyway to have a wake-up horn, bell, tinkle or succulent voice for any
detected killer item I can forecast.
Now, Caution [orange] is another matter and perhaps we should distinguish
between W and C. Certainly, the latest dark and stormy story is a yellow, so
there might be some room for some discussion there..............
E-Bob, Old Bob, Eric, boys?
ferg
europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
From: WRBYARS(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 02/07/05 A Forced Landing
Perhaps I missed out on something earlier, however in my airplanes you
could
"loose", or turn off, ALL of the electrical system, and continue to fly as
long as the gas held out (during VFR). The engine runs off of a magneto
thus
supplying It's own power and doesn't need a battery, etc.
Confused, "
Bill Byars
Me too. Which was meant, "Loose" or "lose"? Spelling counts, and
'loose' is an adjective...............
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
> I've often wondered how well thin foil antennas perform when
> bonded directly to composite shells. The differences in
> thermal coefficient of expansion will probably cause cracks.
> The width of the foil is a plus as it improves bandwidth of
> the antenna. VHF comm has a greater spread of useful frequencies
> (percentage wise) than any other service we use. The thin, flat
> conductors are attractive. Making them out of copper makes them
> solderable too.
>
> Hmmmm . . . come to think of it, etched circuit board material
> comes in big sheets of 0.062" fiberglas and epoxy with .0013"
> copper sheet bonded to it. I've never heard any concern about
> hairline cracks due to temperature cycling. I suspect your
> worries don't have much foundation in physics. It's very
> likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
> have will perform as expected for longer than you will
> own the airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
I cant wrangle electrons, but this I know. Thousands of Burt Rutan's canard
composites, and derivatives of, have put copper foil strip antennas in the
winglets. No problems.
An example can be found here
http://www.canardaviation.com/cozy/chap20.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)provalue.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
Dee,
Try this British guy. Below is an exchange of messages with him several
months ago.
>> How much do you charge for the inverter? Thank you,
Jerzy
> lightwork(at)aerosys.co.uk
> Hi Jerzy,
>
> Thanks for the enquiry and apologies for the delay in getting back to
> you. The price of the inverter alone is 165.00 ukp + shipping, to
> include cables to your specification. Delivery is 2-3 weeks from recipt
> of order, with a lifetime guarantee. It will power all the smaller gyros
> and can be built either as a single or three phase unit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
Dee L. Conger wrote:
>
>I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power several
very nice JET attitude gyros. Does anyone know where I might find such
a thing? These indicators only require about 100va so a small unit would be
just fine. I'm not interested in one of the bulky rotary converters - a nice
small static inverter would work best.
>
>Dee
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
>
>
>The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one
>marked "HIGH" and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon
>for positive and negative leads?
Essentially, yes. HI and LO used to be really significant
in some venues where the audio system used balanced lines
between black boxes and both sides were isolated from ground.
Then, the HI and LO labels were useful for phasing. Nowadays,
the vast majority of autio is carried on unbalanced lines and
LO is the shield side of the signal . . . if you do an ohmmeter
check between any audio LO pin and power ground, they'll be
directly connected.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank & Dorothy <frankvdh(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
Roger Evenson wrote:
>The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one marked
"HIGH" and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon for positive
and negative leads?
>
>
Traffic at higher and lower altutdes than you perhaps?
Or perhaps female or male voice annunciation?
Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Ex Pilot Question |
Question for the Trio Ez Pilot and Navaid (since they use basically the same
servo) folks. The installation instructions for the Ez Pilot recommend a
shielded wire for the PWM (servo movement commands)signal line from the
control head to the servo. Do I need to find some shielded wire for this
and what should I use? Is there a Tefzel or MIL-SPEC coaxial cable that I
could/should use? What gauge would it be and where would I get it? Is this
a big deal or could I just use an unshielded wire here? What is the
frequency of the pulse width modulation that Trio uses? Would it be an
antagonist to my radios and audio system? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Can't wait to fly this thing!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Dee Hi!
> I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power
> several very nice JET attitude gyros.
A Company here in UK may still be able to supply that requirement.
It was in their Catalogue last year with a new Catalogue due out.
It's Listed as: Inverter 28V DC to 115V 3 phase. Ideal use for Ferranti
FH32.
That would be a UK built Attitude Indicator for the Military and be a fairly
substantial Unit with corresponding power requirement so this inverter
should be adequate.
Size: 150x80x50mm or in proper measurement....6"x3"X2". Weight 700g or 1.5
US Pounds
It's part No: RD 102/28. Price $290.00 but subtract 17.5% as you dont need
to pay UK Value added Tax.
Company details: http://www.afeonline.com or for e-mail:
enquiries(at)afeonline.com
Tel No: +44 161 499 0023
Best of Luck!
I used one on a Ferranti FH14 Attitude Indicator. The Inverter device was
fine and physically quiet with no perceived RF Noise although I think it
would need careful placement. It indicated a 6A+ draw at 12V on start up and
settled to about 2A.
I'll call then later this morning and get an update to you (I'm in UK).
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <Richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
I have one of those in 12 volt running at JET gyro, it works wonderfully.
At 11:33 PM 2/20/05, you wrote:
>
>Dee Hi!
>
> > I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to
> power
> > several very nice JET attitude gyros.
>
>A Company here in UK may still be able to supply that requirement.
>It was in their Catalogue last year with a new Catalogue due out.
>
>It's Listed as: Inverter 28V DC to 115V 3 phase. Ideal use for Ferranti
>FH32.
>That would be a UK built Attitude Indicator for the Military and be a fairly
>substantial Unit with corresponding power requirement so this inverter
>should be adequate.
>Size: 150x80x50mm or in proper measurement....6"x3"X2". Weight 700g or 1.5
>US Pounds
>
>It's part No: RD 102/28. Price $290.00 but subtract 17.5% as you dont need
>to pay UK Value added Tax.
>
>Company details: http://www.afeonline.com or for e-mail:
>enquiries(at)afeonline.com
>
>Tel No: +44 161 499 0023
>
>Best of Luck!
>
>I used one on a Ferranti FH14 Attitude Indicator. The Inverter device was
>fine and physically quiet with no perceived RF Noise although I think it
>would need careful placement. It indicated a 6A+ draw at 12V on start up and
>settled to about 2A.
>
>I'll call then later this morning and get an update to you (I'm in UK).
>
>Regards
>
>Gerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 330 High vs. Low? |
| From: | pengilly(at)southwest.com.au |
High and low in electrical speak also stands for open and closed contacts
and also on and off
Regards
Paul
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>The Garmin 330 Mode S transponder shows two traffic audio outputs, one
>>marked "HIGH" and one marked "LOW". What does this mean? Is this jargon
>>for positive and negative leads?
>
> Essentially, yes. HI and LO used to be really significant
> in some venues where the audio system used balanced lines
> between black boxes and both sides were isolated from ground.
> T
hen, the HI and LO labels were useful for phasing. Nowadays,
> the vast majority of autio is carried on unbalanced lines and
> LO is the shield side of the signal . . . if you do an ohmmeter
> check between any audio LO pin and power ground, they'll be
> directly connected.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Over Voltage Module/Relay |
Bob,
I want to install an OVM14. I have a Rotax 912S. On the Z-7 diagram it shows
an overvoltage relay that, in the description of OVM14, should be used with
an alternator having an internal regulator, however the Z-7 diagram shows
both an EXTERNAL regulator AND the OV disconnect relay. In addition, your
parts catalog does not show a overvoltage relay available. Where can I get
one, at an auto parts store? One other thing, I have LEDs already installed
in my panel as warning lights, including the alternator fail light. Will
this work in place of the Alt. lamp shown on Z-7?
Thanks.
Troy Maynor
N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
Quotes from website concerning overvoltage modules for 14 volt systems.
"for additional commentary on the matter . . . However over voltage
protection may be added alternators with built-in regulators by
incorporating an external contactor and a crowbar O.V. module"
.<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf>
I've stopped 661 spam messages. You can too!
One month FREE spam protection at
http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsigs/?rc=al4waa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Pressure switches |
I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum. I would like the fuel and oil
pressure switches to go on below about 10-15 psi and the vacuum to go on
below about 4 inches vacuum. Is there a source for high-quality switches
that do these functions? Of course, I could go to Pep Boys and get an oil
pressure switch, but that would probably fail the "high quality" test and
they are usually set for 7 psi.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Casey Rayman <theturbodog(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Good Inductive load MOSFET / solid state relay/ motor |
control
There has been a bit of talk about solid state relays, and motor
control lately. Just wanted to add my 2 cents in. I've used the
IPS0151 to drive all kinds of inductive loads, its rated to
35A(heatsink) and has built in kickback protection(Diode). Its
fairly tolerant of abuse too, as mosfet's go anyway. Digikey carries
them and they are fairly cheap.
Here is the datasheet:
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/ips0151.pdf
Casey
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
John D'Onofrio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Gary Hi! from UK.
A coincidence. I have just placed a pressure Sx on eBay that=B9s surplus from
my build.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item5559565262&ssPageN
ameSTRK:MESE:IT
(Shows pictures and other details)
The Company (Gem Sensors) who supplied it have details as follows:
http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplatePressureSwitch.asp?nProductGroupID29
7
I had two delivered in the following configuration for about $35.00 each.
Gem Sensors PS61 Series Sub Miniature Pressure Switch - Suitable for Low
Coolant or Oil Pressure
Range: 0.35 - 6 Bar (Adjustable) Factory SET at 5lbs per sq in.
Fitting: 1/8th NPT male - Switch: SPST/NC
Connections: Spade Terminals
Weight: 0.14lbs
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ex Pilot Question |
>
>
>Question for the Trio Ez Pilot and Navaid (since they use basically the same
>servo) folks. The installation instructions for the Ez Pilot recommend a
>shielded wire for the PWM (servo movement commands)signal line from the
>control head to the servo. Do I need to find some shielded wire
. . . if the manufacturer calls it out, it's a
reasonable thing to do.
> for this
>and what should I use?
. . . it's a signal wire . . . physical size has
nothing to do with its performance.
> Is there a Tefzel or MIL-SPEC coaxial cable that I
>could/should use?
. . . there are LOTS of shielded wires with mil-specs
against them and lots of different insulations including
Tefzel.
> What gauge would it be and where would I get it?
22AWG would be fine I think . . . what does the
manufacturer's installation diagrams call out?
> Is this
>a big deal or could I just use an unshielded wire here?
"Big deal" isn't very quantifiable. The answer based
on equally un-quantified anecdotes suggests that the
servo's control signal is not a strong antagonist . . .
but it might be a victim. I think there is greater (but
still small) risk that something like strobes firing
could cause the servo to "twitch" if it were trying
to respond to a command during strobe illumination
time.
Bottom line is that we could hypothesize about the
what-ifs and where-evers for a long time and never
deduce the real story.
The safest approach is to always comply with
manufacturer's installation instructions. At least
when you call them with some kind of interference
problem, they can't insult your ancestry for
not having followed instructions!
> What is the
>frequency of the pulse width modulation that Trio uses? Would it be an
>antagonist to my radios and audio system?
Again, no way to know without more data. Suggest
you acquire some shielded wire from one of the
several capable suppliers to the OBAM aircraft
community which include but are not limited to
B&C, Steinar, Wicks, Aircraft Spruce, and shucks . . .
if it's 10' of wire you need, I can throw a chunk
into an envelope for you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery |
Chuck,
After 5 yrs, my Skyforce IIIC just started complaining about the battery. I put
in a web order last night to McMaster-Carr, per your suggestion:
P/N is 6951K999 and the description is "disposable lithium battery Hawker Entercell
3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
with one wire pigtail each end."
They phoned me this morning & said they don't carry anything like this battery.
Is there some magic phrase that I'm missing? Do you, or anyone else, know of
any other source for an equivalent?
Regards,
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:31:42 -0400
>
>
> For all the DIYs. The disassembly is not difficult but as you work your way
> down through the board levels, just remove the screws and clips as you go.
> The battery leads are soldered directly onto the board. Use a solder-sucker
> to desolder the pigtail joints. Put the new battery pigtails in place,
> soldered it (not too many close-by components to be heat damaged) and
> reassemble. Plug in, turn on and allow internal battery to charge up.
>
> Cycle unit off/on. The database will likely be corrupted (it's probably a
> Political Database). If the memory is corrupted, go into SETUP and clear
> memory. The code to clear memory is either 3-3-3-3 or 1-2-3-4. When the
> memory is cleared, your pin number is reset to 1-2-3-4. You will lose all
> your saved flight plans and/or waypoints, but that's not the end of the
> world!
>
> Kurt, an external battery may get disconnected, or not charged; each time
> resulting in loss of your memory and corrupted database. Replacing the
> internal battery is a once-every-5-year project and takes less than an
> hour...2 hours for the dexterity-challenged. Not a big deal.
>
> As to the battery itself, the McMaster-Carr P/N is 6951K999 and the
> description is "disposable lithium battery Hawker Entercell 3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
> with one wire pigtail each end." Price was $13.46 with $3.45 shipping.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
> schrader
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS
> battery
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> What I meant to say is that I wanted to mount the
> replacement battery on the outside to avoid opening
> the unit again next time. My main power comes off the
> aircraft system. An external battery could be of any
> diminsions and not have to fit the inside space. It
> could be larger or maybe a cheaper substitute? Or
> just a radio shack substitute that is easier to get.
>
> How's that for thinking out of the box? :-) Ok, if
> it isn't too hard to do, I'll just stick with the
> matching substitute.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Jim Stone wrote:
>
> > Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce
> > IIIC GPS battery
> >
> > Kert,
> >
> > I agree it's a bummer, having just gone through the
> > process myself. I
> > also did some investigations inside the box. It is
> > NOT a standard
> > identifiable battery as one would expect. This is
> > probably a legacy of
> > the unit originally being designed and built in
> > Great Britain, then the
> > company was bought by Bendix/King.
> >
> > Since the battery is used to keep the RAM alive, an
> > external battery would still be required.
> >
> > Mine lasted over 5 years before the message poped
> up.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Jim Stone
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
As Bob suggested, I believe some of the embedded antenna suffer
from bad termination technique and improper strain relief. One place
where the antenna may have problems is glassed into a landing gear
leg. I could imagine that embedded into the bottom of the arc would be
the worst case scenario. The fiberglass matrix elogates under load.
The copper may not be stretchy enough to keep up with the glass.
If embedded in a stiff structure, and with proper strain relief, everything
is good.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD, C150 N714BK
>
>
>> I've often wondered how well thin foil antennas perform when
>> bonded directly to composite shells. The differences in
>> thermal coefficient of expansion will probably cause cracks. The
>> width of the foil is a plus as it improves bandwidth of
>> the antenna. VHF comm has a greater spread of useful frequencies
>> (percentage wise) than any other service we use. The thin, flat
>> conductors are attractive. Making them out of copper makes them
>> solderable too.
>>
>> Hmmmm . . . come to think of it, etched circuit board material
>> comes in big sheets of 0.062" fiberglas and epoxy with .0013"
>> copper sheet bonded to it. I've never heard any concern about
>> hairline cracks due to temperature cycling. I suspect your
>> worries don't have much foundation in physics. It's very
>> likely that your antenna assembled with the materials you
>> have will perform as expected for longer than you will
>> own the airplane.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
> I cant wrangle electrons, but this I know. Thousands of Burt Rutan's
> canard composites, and derivatives of, have put copper foil strip
> antennas in the winglets. No problems.
>
> An example can be found here
> http://www.canardaviation.com/cozy/chap20.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Chris,
I checked and you have the P/N and description exactly as I entered it in my email
last fall, so that's not the problem. ToDo:
1. Call McMaster and try again. Results may vary depending on who you get.
You might mention that it may have been a special order.
2. I will look in our archives to see if I can find the actual invoice.
If I can, I'll send you the invoice number so you can ask for the same identical
component by referencing the invoice number.
McMaster is actually pretty squared away, but with a quadzillion different parts
and materials, its amazing they can find anything. So, a second attempt is
time well spent.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Good
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS
battery
Chuck,
After 5 yrs, my Skyforce IIIC just started complaining about the battery. I put
in a web order last night to McMaster-Carr, per your suggestion:
P/N is 6951K999 and the description is "disposable lithium battery Hawker Entercell
3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
with one wire pigtail each end."
They phoned me this morning & said they don't carry anything like this battery.
Is there some magic phrase that I'm missing? Do you, or anyone else, know of
any other source for an equivalent?
Regards,
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:31:42 -0400
>
>
> For all the DIYs. The disassembly is not difficult but as you work your way
> down through the board levels, just remove the screws and clips as you go.
> The battery leads are soldered directly onto the board. Use a solder-sucker
> to desolder the pigtail joints. Put the new battery pigtails in place,
> soldered it (not too many close-by components to be heat damaged) and
> reassemble. Plug in, turn on and allow internal battery to charge up.
>
> Cycle unit off/on. The database will likely be corrupted (it's probably a
> Political Database). If the memory is corrupted, go into SETUP and clear
> memory. The code to clear memory is either 3-3-3-3 or 1-2-3-4. When the
> memory is cleared, your pin number is reset to 1-2-3-4. You will lose all
> your saved flight plans and/or waypoints, but that's not the end of the
> world!
>
> Kurt, an external battery may get disconnected, or not charged; each time
> resulting in loss of your memory and corrupted database. Replacing the
> internal battery is a once-every-5-year project and takes less than an
> hour...2 hours for the dexterity-challenged. Not a big deal.
>
> As to the battery itself, the McMaster-Carr P/N is 6951K999 and the
> description is "disposable lithium battery Hawker Entercell 3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
> with one wire pigtail each end." Price was $13.46 with $3.45 shipping.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
> schrader
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS
> battery
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> What I meant to say is that I wanted to mount the
> replacement battery on the outside to avoid opening
> the unit again next time. My main power comes off the
> aircraft system. An external battery could be of any
> diminsions and not have to fit the inside space. It
> could be larger or maybe a cheaper substitute? Or
> just a radio shack substitute that is easier to get.
>
> How's that for thinking out of the box? :-) Ok, if
> it isn't too hard to do, I'll just stick with the
> matching substitute.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Jim Stone wrote:
>
> > Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce
> > IIIC GPS battery
> >
> > Kert,
> >
> > I agree it's a bummer, having just gone through the
> > process myself. I
> > also did some investigations inside the box. It is
> > NOT a standard
> > identifiable battery as one would expect. This is
> > probably a legacy of
> > the unit originally being designed and built in
> > Great Britain, then the
> > company was bought by Bendix/King.
> >
> > Since the battery is used to keep the RAM alive, an
> > external battery would still be required.
> >
> > Mine lasted over 5 years before the message poped
> up.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Jim Stone
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy Wheaton <roy_wheaton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blinking lights and warning sounds |
Just a thought or two: We released our monitor about 3 years ago for
motorcycles. It monitors oil pressure, charging system, and optionally coolant
temp, and sounds various loud warnings to indicate the type of failure. Sales
were minimal, because riders said "I always watch my lights." This in spite of
the fact that most motorcycles don't have a warning light for the charging
system! When they became stranded because their alternator plug fell out, they
became customers. It's heartwarming to hear pilots, who are trained to scan
their instruments constantly, recognize the need for audible and visual alarms.
We moved into developing products for ultralights and rally vehicles, using
multiple response voice chips; a microprocessor monitors the various functions,
and then selects a voice message which is passed through the intercom. There is
NO substitute for multiple alarms. As my belt and suspender-wearing daddy used
to say, "you can't be too careful..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
There is a person selling a Honeywell oil and fuel pressure sensor for
$12 each. From what I've read, they are top quality devices. He
apparently bought a ton of them surplus and is still selling them. I'll
have to dig around to find his info if anyone is interested.
Tailgummer(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
>I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
>pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
>
>
>Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
>etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
>
> John D'Onofrio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Gary -
Allied Electronics has the oil pressure switch that goes with a Hobbs
meter. Costs about $30. It is the dual circuit kind - one NO and OC
terminal. And you can get it in various pressure settings. We wired one
contact to the Hobbs and the other to an oil pressure low light. Let me
know if you need the wiring diagram for this. ACS only carries the single
circuitkind. Allied might also carry other kinds.
Cheers,
JOhn
>
> I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
> pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum. I would like the fuel and
> oil
> pressure switches to go on below about 10-15 psi and the vacuum to go on
> below about 4 inches vacuum. Is there a source for high-quality switches
> that do these functions? Of course, I could go to Pep Boys and get an
> oil
> pressure switch, but that would probably fail the "high quality" test and
> they are usually set for 7 psi.
>
> Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Have 'scope, will travel |
I'm packing up to climb onto a big iron bird for a trip to
Mississippi. Seems I'm Mr. Ground Fault Expert now that the
saga that raged over the Xmas holidays has been written.
I'll be off-list for several days. We're scheduled back
Friday but I tuned up the ol' 'scope and sharpened the
axes and saws . . . maybe we'll get it fixed in a few
hours and be back on Wednesday.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery |
Chuck,
Thanks for your help with this. Your original invoice from McMaster might help.
Do you recall the physical size of the battery? Or perhaps you have the old one
& could measure it. I'd rather not take my Skymap apart till I have a replacement
battery in hand!
Digikey carries several 3.6v lithium batteries in different sizes with leads (AA
or 1/2 AA for instance). I'm hoping one of these might be suitable.
Regards,
Chris Good.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS battery
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:55 -0500
>
>
> Chris,
>
> I checked and you have the P/N and description exactly as I entered
> it in my email last fall, so that's not the problem. ToDo:
>
> 1. Call McMaster and try again. Results may vary depending
> on who you get. You might mention that it may have been a special
> order.
>
> 2. I will look in our archives to see if I can find the
> actual invoice. If I can, I'll send you the invoice number so you
> can ask for the same identical component by referencing the invoice
> number.
>
> McMaster is actually pretty squared away, but with a quadzillion
> different parts and materials, its amazing they can find anything.
> So, a second attempt is time well spent.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
> Good
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bendix King Skyforce IIIC GPS
> battery
>
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> After 5 yrs, my Skyforce IIIC just started complaining about the
> battery. I put in a web order last night to McMaster-Carr, per
> your suggestion:
>
> P/N is 6951K999 and the description is "disposable lithium battery
> Hawker Entercell 3.7V TO6/8AA TCL
> with one wire pigtail each end."
>
> They phoned me this morning & said they don't carry anything like
> this battery. Is there some magic phrase that I'm missing? Do
> you, or anyone else, know of any other source for an equivalent?
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good,
> West Bend, WI
> RV-6A
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antenna / aerial questions |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Kingsley,
I built a monowheel and installed the factory di-pole in the
tail. It worked very well. I did no special treatment for the
instalation. Just kept the ends free so I could trim the length to get
the correct bandwidth. You need to install the torrids just before you
terminate the cable at the di-pole. This keeps the standing waves such
that you can get a SWR ratio below 2:1. I was able to get a ratio of
about 1.2:1 in the middle of the band. I "rented" Bob Nuchols
professional SWR meter and tuned the antenna just right. His instrument
was the key in doing it right.. I made up a graph with swr v:s
frequency. I actually had a dip in the middle but it was great. Cheep
and very effective. When the antenna was finally tuned, I put a coat of
epoxy on the antenna for the full the length. My torrids were just
inside the fin close out. BTW, I had to solder some lengths back on the
antenna to lengthern it after I found out I had trimmed off too much. I
wanted the antenna at peak performance
Jim Nelson
N15JN (sold)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com> |
Has anyone flow with a P-mags yet? For that matter. Does anyone have
any idea about how many have been shipped?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com> |
Has anyone flow with a P-mags yet? For that matter., does anyone have
any idea about how many have been shipped?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Not sure how many have been shipped, but I just received mine today, and
it was serial number 118.
Just printed out the manual (came on a disk).
Dropped them off at the hangar this afternoon...didn't stay long, the
plow hadn't got passed the taxi strip as yet!
I know that someone else here has a much earlier serial number and has
been flying with them.
Harley Dixon
Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell wrote:
>
>Has anyone flow with a P-mags yet? For that matter. Does anyone have
>any idea about how many have been shipped?
>
>Roger
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Audio Panel Ground Bar |
I'm getting ready to wire my radio stack which includes an SL-15 (PM7000B)
audio panel. I've wired this same stack before but this SL-15 includes a
"ground bar" which the previous one did not. I couldn't find any reference
to it in their manual other than for mounting it. It's a thin strip of metal
that spans the rear case between the connectors. It appears to be tinned so
I suspect it's there to receive the forest of grounds and shields that you
have to contend with. It was a mess the last time but that was before I
learned about solder seals and pigtails. Should I just throw away the ground
bar and go with the pigtails or is there some benefit to using it? If so,
how do I use it? Aside from electrical and physical robustness, I'm also
striving for neatness this time around. Suggestions?
Thanks,
Greg Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hi Bob, My alternator controller. |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
Hi Bob,
My Alternator Controller ( from BNC) has never had volts hooked up to it
yet.
Its bolted to a grounded surface. I find all seven stations are then
grounded
with no wires hooked to it at all. Something smells in denmark. Whats
going on?
Bad Controller??
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A molex dis-connect wrench?? |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
Seems to me there should be a molex dis-connect wrench.
There are tabs on the sides that look like they are there for that
purpose.
Where would I find such a thing and what would it be called.
Cecil
RV6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A molex dis-connect wrench?? |
Cecil...
Those tabs are for mounting in chassis...they bend back and lock the
receptacle into the sheet metal.
As far as disconnecting, all I ever did was sweat and strain and pull!
And we had some 50 pin versions to work with!
Harley
cecilth(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>Seems to me there should be a molex dis-connect wrench.
>There are tabs on the sides that look like they are there for that
>purpose.
>Where would I find such a thing and what would it be called.
>Cecil
>RV6a
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi Bob, My alternator controller. |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Since Bob is out of town for a few days...
I assume you are using a meter of some sort to determine that
they are 'grounded.'
I wouldn't be surprised if each of the inputs have a diode stack or
similar structure connected as input polarity protection. Some
terminals may have fairly large capacitors on them. Depending on
what kind of meter you have and how you hook it up to each terminal,
they may look nearly like they are shorted to ground.
If you need an answer right away, you could probably contact one
of the techies at B and C. They have been very responsive to my
questions and requests in the past.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Hi Bob,
> My Alternator Controller ( from BNC) has never had volts hooked up to it
> yet.
> Its bolted to a grounded surface. I find all seven stations are then
> grounded
> with no wires hooked to it at all. Something smells in denmark. Whats
> going on?
> Bad Controller??
> Cecil Hatfield
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kent" <jakent(at)unison.ie> |
| Subject: | 3-Phase Inverters & 3 Suppliers . Plus inverter for |
sale!
As well as Chris Quayle and RD aviation, consider also Andy Wright (
http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.wright617/ ).
I bought one of his inverters to run a Bendix J8 horizon - turned out the
tilt could not be doctored for 8 degrees - bummer!
The inverter is a nice 14V to 115V/3ph unit which I will now part with for a
reasonable offer.
I purchased a Ferranti horizon (8 degree !) from Chris Quayle.
It came with an even nicer inverter, lighter and with an on-board cooling
fan.
Both Andy and Chris produce the inverters themselves using high quality
multi-pin connectors, etc.
The examples of RD Aviation units that I have seen all appear to have
screws to hold the connecting wires in place - not as nice quality, (IMHO).
Not much difference in the price if I recall correctly.
Contact Chris or Andy to see if they can supply the 28V to 115V/3ph unit you
require.
John Kent (RV-4 EI-DIY)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Have 'scope, will travel |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>I'm packing up to climb onto a big iron bird for a trip to
>Mississippi. Seems I'm Mr. Ground Fault Expert now that the
>saga that raged over the Xmas holidays has been written.
>
>I'll be off-list for several days. We're scheduled back
>Friday but I tuned up the ol' 'scope and sharpened the
>axes and saws . . . maybe we'll get it fixed in a few
>hours and be back on Wednesday.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
If you're going to be in Jackson & have some free time in the afternoon
or evening, give me a call & come by to visit at Slobovia Outernational
Airport (MS71). We are about 10 miles NW of Jackson on HWY 49 with some
good MS catfish just down the road from the airstrip. I'm home by 1:00
PM each day.
Charlie
601-879-9596
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi Bob, My alternator controller. |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
I do the checking with a meter.
I touch the case and all 7 terminals and get a full needle deflection
at each terminal. The other probe is grounded to the airframe.
Cecil
writes:
>
>
> Since Bob is out of town for a few days...
>
> I assume you are using a meter of some sort to determine that
> they are 'grounded.'
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if each of the inputs have a diode stack or
> similar structure connected as input polarity protection. Some
> terminals may have fairly large capacitors on them. Depending on
> what kind of meter you have and how you hook it up to each terminal,
> they may look nearly like they are shorted to ground.
>
> If you need an answer right away, you could probably contact one
> of the techies at B and C. They have been very responsive to my
> questions and requests in the past.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> > My Alternator Controller ( from BNC) has never had volts hooked up
> to it
> > yet.
> > Its bolted to a grounded surface. I find all seven stations are
> then
> > grounded
> > with no wires hooked to it at all. Something smells in denmark.
> Whats
> > going on?
> > Bad Controller??
> > Cecil Hatfield
> >
> >
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
I'd like to have the info on how to contact this person, please.
Thank you,
Bill Byars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Pressure switches |
Definately interested!
Hans
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens AI Nut
> Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 18:17
> Aan: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
>
>
> There is a person selling a Honeywell oil and fuel pressure sensor for
> $12 each. From what I've read, they are top quality devices. He
> apparently bought a ton of them surplus and is still selling them. I'll
> have to dig around to find his info if anyone is interested.
>
>
> Tailgummer(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
> >
> >I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
> >pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
> >
> >
> >Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
> >etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
> >
> > John D'Onofrio
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blinking lights and warning sounds |
Roy,
Do you have a web site for your bells and whistles stuff?
Thanks
Hans
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Roy Wheaton
> Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 18:04
> Aan: aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Onderwerp: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blinking lights and warning sounds
>
>
>
> Just a thought or two: We released our monitor about 3 years ago for
> motorcycles. It monitors oil pressure, charging system, and optionally
> coolant
> temp, and sounds various loud warnings to indicate the type of failure.
> Sales
> were minimal, because riders said "I always watch my lights." This in
> spite of
> the fact that most motorcycles don't have a warning light for the charging
> system! When they became stranded because their alternator plug fell out,
> they
> became customers. It's heartwarming to hear pilots, who are trained to
> scan
> their instruments constantly, recognize the need for audible and visual
> alarms.
> We moved into developing products for ultralights and rally vehicles,
> using
> multiple response voice chips; a microprocessor monitors the various
> functions,
> and then selects a voice message which is passed through the intercom.
> There is
> NO substitute for multiple alarms. As my belt and suspender-wearing daddy
> used
> to say, "you can't be too careful..."
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: Powerdiode failure mode |
Thank you, Dick
>Bottom line is that it depends on the actual construction of the diode
>in question.
>
>No guarantees. Sorry.
>
I believe you...
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Dee Hi again!
> I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to power
> several very nice JET attitude gyros.
RD Aviation in UK can supply this device.
You need to contact Peter Purdy on +44 1865 841441 or
e-Mail: oxford(at)afeonline.com
His feedback was as follows:
3 weeks lead time on receipt of an Order.
Jet Gyro's may only need 115V AC Single Phase supply, not 3 phase.
You need to clarify this.
Approximate price between $200 -$300. (Dont quote me!)
Best of luck.
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Panel near completion.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
Please bear with me regarding those sensors. The emails that I had that
info on disappeared thanks to a disk crash so I'm having to search the
hard way. I tried to buy some but kept forgetting to send the money
(long, boring story.)
Hans Teijgeler wrote:
>
>Definately interested!
>
>Hans
>
>
>
>
>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>>aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens AI Nut
>>Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 18:17
>>Aan: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
>>
>>
>>There is a person selling a Honeywell oil and fuel pressure sensor for
>>$12 each. From what I've read, they are top quality devices. He
>>apparently bought a ton of them surplus and is still selling them. I'll
>>have to dig around to find his info if anyone is interested.
>>
>>
>>Tailgummer(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>>glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
>>>
>>>I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
>>>pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
>>>
>>>
>>>Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
>>>etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
>>>
>>> John D'Onofrio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Ex Pilot Question |
Hi Dean,
Thanks for pointing this out. I've already wired my Trio Avionics
EZ Pilot servo, but didn't notice the recommendation to use shielded
wire on the PWM line. How the heck did I miss this? Anyway...
One question for the experts - would it hurt to have all three
lines - ground, +14v, and the PWM be in the same shielded bundle?
One concern I have is that the documentation says to ground both
ends of the shield. This seems to be in conflict with Bob's
teachings. Are autopilot servos different from strobes in this
regard?
Thanks,
Mickey
>>Question for the Trio Ez Pilot and Navaid (since they use basically the same
>>servo) folks. The installation instructions for the Ez Pilot recommend a
>>shielded wire for the PWM (servo movement commands)signal line from the
>>control head to the servo. Do I need to find some shielded wire
>
>
> . . . if the manufacturer calls it out, it's a
> reasonable thing to do.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <vernw(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
I'm just a little confused and could use some guidance:
In Bob's Z13 "All Elecrtic on a Budget" schematic, the SD8 works fine for backup
even in the event of a TOTAL battery failure because it looks like the capacitor
is used for excitation of the SD8 in case it doesn't "find" a battery.
Assuming that's correct...
As long as it's possible to assure excitation of the standby alternator to
positively get power from it in case of (total) battery failure, I'm very comfortable
with going with just one battery. However, I also don't mind spending
a bit more to use the SD20 alternator as the standby instead of the SD8, but still
using the "... Budget" schematic. I really like the philosophy and practical
operation of the Z13 schematic, even more than the "split" system represented
by the Z14 schematic.
My question is: Considering the higher power output of the SD20, can you simply
replace the SD8 with the SD 20 but leave everything else the same, or, because
of the higher power output of the SD20, do I need to replace other components
as well, and even have to use the LR-3 regulator instead of the standard
voltage regulator with OV Crowbar module as is used on the original Z13 schematic?
Or perhaps I should just "cut and paste" the SD20 portion of the schematic
from the Z14 diagram onto the Z13 diagram and replace the SD8 portion of the Z13
schematic with it?
Comments?
TIA
Vern
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <vernw(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
Are they something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=88433&item=5558782894&rd=1
Vern
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
>
> Please bear with me regarding those sensors. The emails that I had that
> info on disappeared thanks to a disk crash so I'm having to search the
> hard way. I tried to buy some but kept forgetting to send the money
> (long, boring story.)
>
>
> Hans Teijgeler wrote:
>
> >
> >Definately interested!
> >
> >Hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >>Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> >>aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens AI Nut
> >>Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 18:17
> >>Aan: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
> >>
> >>
> >>There is a person selling a Honeywell oil and fuel pressure sensor for
> >>$12 each. From what I've read, they are top quality devices. He
> >>apparently bought a ton of them surplus and is still selling them. I'll
> >>have to dig around to find his info if anyone is interested.
> >>
> >>
> >>Tailgummer(at)aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >>>glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
> >>>
> >>>I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
> >>>pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
> >>>etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
> >>>
> >>> John D'Onofrio
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Ez Pilot Question |
OK, thanks for the clarification!
Mickey
> With the strobe you are trying to keep the noise IN, on the servo you're
> keeping it OUT. Two different things and they are treated differently.
>
>>One concern I have is that the documentation says to ground both
>>ends of the shield. This seems to be in conflict with Bob's
>>teachings. Are autopilot servos different from strobes in this
>>regard?
>>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 115 vac 3 phase inverter |
| From: | "Dee L. Conger" <dee(at)ansatainc.com> |
Thanks for the information - I'll contact the vendors and see what we
can come up with!
Dee L. Conger
(858) 754-3010 Direct
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 115 vac 3 phase inverter
Dee Hi again!
> I'm searching for a small, 28vdc to 115 vac 400hz, 3 phase inverter to
power
> several very nice JET attitude gyros.
RD Aviation in UK can supply this device.
You need to contact Peter Purdy on +44 1865 841441 or
e-Mail: oxford(at)afeonline.com
His feedback was as follows:
3 weeks lead time on receipt of an Order.
Jet Gyro's may only need 115V AC Single Phase supply, not 3 phase.
You need to clarify this.
Approximate price between $200 -$300. (Dont quote me!)
Best of luck.
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Panel near completion.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Hi Vern
I think I can answer some of your questions. You should also be able to
find several related discussions in the archives.
Permanent magnet alternators use permanent magnets instead of
electromagnets for the field magnetism. Therefore they don't need any
excitation current and they generate voltage if they are turning,
whether they are connected to a load, a battery, or nothing. The
capacitor is simply there to smooth the output and insure steady
operation of the regulator. Yes a larger capacitor (more microfarads) is
preferred with a larger alternator. A second battery like the Z-14
diagram would also smooth the output but it would be heavier and more
complicated than a capacitor.
As far as the size of alternator goes, you must decide how much current
you would want out of it after a main alternator failure. What loads
will you need to maintain? Usually not very much. With a Lycoming I'd
guess that most folks will likely find the 8 amp unit just fine to
comfortably continue flying to destination or a comfortable diversion.
With an engine that needs electronic fuel injection, 12 volt ignition, a
high pressure electric fuel pump and also will be flown IFR, then the 20
amp unit probably makes sense.
I'd guess that the two PM alternators use the same regulator but the B&C
website should have that info. Slightly larger wire may be appropriate
with the 20 amp unit but most relays and switches should work for either
unit.
Ken
Vern W. wrote:
>
> I'm just a little confused and could use some guidance:
> In Bob's Z13 "All Elecrtic on a Budget" schematic, the SD8 works fine for
backup even in the event of a TOTAL battery failure because it looks like the
capacitor is used for excitation of the SD8 in case it doesn't "find" a battery.
Assuming that's correct...
>
> As long as it's possible to assure excitation of the standby alternator to
positively get power from it in case of (total) battery failure, I'm very comfortable
with going with just one battery. However, I also don't mind spending
a bit more to use the SD20 alternator as the standby instead of the SD8, but
still using the "... Budget" schematic. I really like the philosophy and practical
operation of the Z13 schematic, even more than the "split" system represented
by the Z14 schematic.
> My question is: Considering the higher power output of the SD20, can you simply
replace the SD8 with the SD 20 but leave everything else the same, or, because
of the higher power output of the SD20, do I need to replace other components
as well, and even have to use the LR-3 regulator instead of the standard
voltage regulator with OV Crowbar module as is used on the original Z13 schematic?
> Or perhaps I should just "cut and paste" the SD20 portion of the schematic
from the Z14 diagram onto the Z13 diagram and replace the SD8 portion of the
Z13 schematic with it?
> Comments?
>
>TIA
>Vern
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Michael" <MJones(at)hatch.ca> |
hi all
i have following gyros for my kit plane rc allen dg model rca-15 and horizon
model rca-26
i am wondering what the current draw on them is so i dont have to hook up
and measure
i seem to have written down that the horizon has written on its case 14 vdc
and 1.0 amp, if this is true and using say 4ft of wire and figure 11-30 from
ac 43.13 the wire size is off the chart, so how do you size an item like
this, perhaps my amps are wrong, if not can someone explain the example i
see of 22 awg wire and 2 amp cb's
thanx
mike
murphy rebel#007
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of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
copy or take any action with respect to it.
If you have received this message in error please notify
HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin(at)hatch.ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
No, they were nothing like that.
Still searching. Dang it.
Vern W. wrote:
>
>Are they something like this?
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=88433&item=5558782894&rd=1
>
>Vern
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "AI Nut" <ainut(at)hiwaay.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Please bear with me regarding those sensors. The emails that I had that
>>info on disappeared thanks to a disk crash so I'm having to search the
>>hard way. I tried to buy some but kept forgetting to send the money
>>(long, boring story.)
>>
>>
>>Hans Teijgeler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>Definately interested!
>>>
>>>Hans
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>>Van: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
>>>>aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens AI Nut
>>>>Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 18:17
>>>>Aan: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>Onderwerp: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pressure switches
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is a person selling a Honeywell oil and fuel pressure sensor for
>>>>$12 each. From what I've read, they are top quality devices. He
>>>>apparently bought a ton of them surplus and is still selling them. I'll
>>>>have to dig around to find his info if anyone is interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tailgummer(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In a message dated 2/21/2005 6:33:31 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>>>>glcasey(at)adelphia.net writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>I have been unable (I haven't looked really hard, I'll admit) to find
>>>>>pressure switches for fuel, oil and vacuum........
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Precise Flight in Oregon sells a low vacuum warning kit (switch, tubing
>>>>>etc.). Works just fine for the vacuum system.
>>>>>
>>>>>John D'Onofrio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pressure switches |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
> No, they were nothing like that.
Try here:
http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplatePressureSwitch.asp?nProductGroupID=29
7
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder.
PSS AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
Mobile: +44 7808 402404
WebFax: +44 870 7059985
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Voice annunciation |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen
Matejcek
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voice annunciation
This thread about bells, whistles, chirps and voices reminds me of an
incident more or less 40 years ago four of us were having quartet
practice, in the days when beer cans were thicker than tissue paper and
the pull tabs came off of the cans. I was idly popping the head of a
can in and out like a halloween cricket when our bass singer said "I've
been looking for that kind of sound". At the time he worked for
Gray-Faraday and they were trying to devise a unique sound for a warning
system for commercial aircraft. We talked a bit about how it might be
done and a couple weeks later he came to practice with a prototype unit.
It went into production and one application for what became known as a
"clacker" was as an overspeed warning on Boeing 737's. Whether or not it
was used anywhere else, I have no idea but the search for distinctive
methods of warning has been underway for quite a while. This fits the
category of more or less useless information.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Vern,
I had the same question a couple years ago. The following exchange with
Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
>I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
>more juice in the event of main alternator
>failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
>How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
>of the SD-8?
Bob wrote:
How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
>What would be wrong with modifying Z-13 by replacing the
>SD-8 with an SD-20 and running the B-lead to the battery
>side of the battery contactor (as with the SD-8)?
>Wouldn't this avoid the need for a 2nd battery while also
>removing the the contactor as a single point of failure?
Bob wrote:
You could do that too...It
wouldn't be my choice of architectures.
I wrote:
Why not?
Bob wrote:
If I were going to spend the extra dollars to get the
higher capability of the SD-20, I think I'd go ahead
and take it the small additional step to provide 100%
isolation between the two systems.
Bob . . .
Hope this helps,Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
My RCA-26 draws .76 A at 14 V.
The fuse protects the wire. Fuses do not protect the equipment. If you decide
to use 10 AWG, then use a 30A fuse.
22 AWG typically calls for a 5 A fuse/CB. If you use a smaller fuse, the fuse
will blow before the wire burns, That's GOOD.
Richard Reynolds
RV-6A
"Jones, Michael" wrote:
>
> hi all
>
> i have following gyros for my kit plane rc allen dg model rca-15 and horizon
> model rca-26
> i am wondering what the current draw on them is so i dont have to hook up
> and measure
> i seem to have written down that the horizon has written on its case 14 vdc
> and 1.0 amp, if this is true and using say 4ft of wire and figure 11-30 from
> ac 43.13 the wire size is off the chart, so how do you size an item like
> this, perhaps my amps are wrong, if not can someone explain the example i
> see of 22 awg wire and 2 amp cb's
>
> thanx
>
> mike
> murphy rebel#007
>
> NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
> confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient
> of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
> copy or take any action with respect to it.
>
> If you have received this message in error please notify
> HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin(at)hatch.ca.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Vern -
We did a solution similar to Dan's. We are using the basic Z-14 &
installing the SD-20 on an IO-550. We are not crossfeeding for start. So
we are installing 2 20 AH batteries. The #1 battery holder is large enough
to go to a 25AH battery if necessary for cranking. The original design was
to accommodate two items that may have brown-out problems. One was the
aerosance FADEC; which would not function if the busses went below a
certain voltage due to cranking. We also wanted to have a separate buss
arrangement for each of the two fadec channels. The other was because of
Blue Mountain's design of the EFIS ONE. Once the FADEC solution was
decided it made sense to put the EFIS on the # 2 buss and not worry about
cranking effects on the EFIS or fadec. Since then, we canned the fadec,
but are keeping the same architecture. Eventually we will add electronic
ignition and separate channels would work for that.
I have a .pdf of the Z-14 power layout if you would like to look at it.
Cheers,
John
>
>
>
> Vern,
>
> I had the same question a couple years ago. The following exchange with
> Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
>
> >I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
> >more juice in the event of main alternator
> >failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
> >How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
> >of the SD-8?
>
> Bob wrote:
> How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
> a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
> relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
> the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
> Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
> en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
> cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
> pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <vernw(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Thanks to John and the others who have had some good comments on this
subject, and I'm still listening if others have something to add. I hope
discussing this publicly also helps others in the middle of planning their
electrical systems.
The reason I like the Z13 design so much is that it's really a very
simple system that can overcome either an in-air primary alternator failure
or a battery failure (or both, for that matter).
What I'm building is a "cross country" RV7-A with all electric IFR panel
plus Electronic ignition so I definitely want to make my electrical system
bullet proof. At the same time, being an RV, I'd rather not carry an extra
battery if I don't have to as long as I get the backup power I can count on.
Plus, I would be in a less puckerable situation if the backup alternator was
able to supply 20 amps rather than just 8 amps.
In my mind, and thinking through various failure scenarios, the Z13
design with the SD20 (instead of the SD8) is really as reliable as the Z14
and without the extra weight of an additional battery.
If both alternators AND a single battery (Z13 design) were to fail at
the same moment, then considering the odds against a failure of that nature,
I'm thinking that perhaps that would mean that I just got a direct
invitation to have a personal conversation with God. :-|
So you see my quandry. I'm not considering so much to save money because
either way costs lots of $$. I'm more concerned with not needing to add
another battery on a light aircraft, but still end up with enough dependable
power so that the flight can end uneventfully and with almost all electrics
humming along nicely on just the SD20 if need be.
Even though Bob (hisownself) says that just replacing the SD8 with the
SD20 "wouldn't be (his) choice of architectures", I still want to explore
that possibility. He doesn't argue against it from a dependability
standpoint, he just seems to think that (probably) for the money, you might
as well install a second battery (which I don't want to do).
From what's been said so far, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, it
looks like all I would need to do is to simply use the SD20 in the Z13
schematic instead of the SD8, and still use ALL of the rest of the original
Z13 parts including the regulator shown and the OV Crowbar setup and wire
everything up exactly the same? In other words, just plug in an SD20 instead
of the SD8?
Vern
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
>
> Vern -
>
> We did a solution similar to Dan's. We are using the basic Z-14 &
> installing the SD-20 on an IO-550. We are not crossfeeding for start. So
> we are installing 2 20 AH batteries. The #1 battery holder is large enough
> to go to a 25AH battery if necessary for cranking. The original design was
> to accommodate two items that may have brown-out problems. One was the
> aerosance FADEC; which would not function if the busses went below a
> certain voltage due to cranking. We also wanted to have a separate buss
> arrangement for each of the two fadec channels. The other was because of
> Blue Mountain's design of the EFIS ONE. Once the FADEC solution was
> decided it made sense to put the EFIS on the # 2 buss and not worry about
> cranking effects on the EFIS or fadec. Since then, we canned the fadec,
> but are keeping the same architecture. Eventually we will add electronic
> ignition and separate channels would work for that.
>
> I have a .pdf of the Z-14 power layout if you would like to look at it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Vern,
> >
> > I had the same question a couple years ago. The following exchange with
> > Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
> >
> > >I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
> > >more juice in the event of main alternator
> > >failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
> > >How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
> > >of the SD-8?
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
> > a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
> > relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
> > the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
> > Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
> > en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
> > cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
> > pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Vern -
I don't have the Z-13 in front of me , but you will have to have an
external regulator for the SD-20. I would put in the LR3 from B&C. It has
a crobaw overvoltage built in.
John
> From what's been said so far, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, it
> looks like all I would need to do is to simply use the SD20 in the Z13
> schematic instead of the SD8, and still use ALL of the rest of the
> original Z13 parts including the regulator shown and the OV Crowbar
> setup and wire
> everything up exa
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Intercom Problems in my RV-4 |
I have found, recently, that on cold days my intercom does not work well.
This problem seems to coincide with a "weakened" battery condition caused by
not flying for a couple of weeks. With this combination of cold weather and
weak battery, my intercom generates a lot of static. My transmissions are
difficult to understand due to the static levels, but reception remains
fine. After 30-40 minutes of flying, performance improves dramatically.
The plane has no heat, so I don't believe it is an ambient temperature issue
as the cockpit remains cold. PS Engineering, the manufacturer of my
intercom, has told me that the intercom performance is sensitive to supply
voltage, but once the engine is running, the alternator supplies an
indicated 14.2 volts to the system.
After the airplane sits for a couple of weeks, the battery voltage is about
12.0-12.1 volts (with the instrument panel powered up) Priming with the
electric fuel pump momentarily drops the voltage to 11 volts. Cranking the
engine momentarily drops the voltage to 9+ volts.
Is it likely or possible that my panel is not receiving sufficient voltage
or current to satisfy the needs of the intercom? All other instruments
appear to work properly.
Dean Pichon
Bolton, MA
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Problems in my RV-4 |
I am no electrical expert but when ever I have run across strange problems
the first thing I check for is a bad ground. Bad or partial grounding of
equipment creates some of the strangest problems. For example a partial
ground on the fire wall may improve after everything heats up and expands.
>
>I have found, recently, that on cold days my intercom does not work well.
>This problem seems to coincide with a "weakened" battery condition caused by
>not flying for a couple of weeks. With this combination of cold weather and
>weak battery, my intercom generates a lot of static. My transmissions are
>difficult to understand due to the static levels, but reception remains
>fine. After 30-40 minutes of flying, performance improves dramatically.
>
>The plane has no heat, so I don't believe it is an ambient temperature issue
>as the cockpit remains cold. PS Engineering, the manufacturer of my
>intercom, has told me that the intercom performance is sensitive to supply
>voltage, but once the engine is running, the alternator supplies an
>indicated 14.2 volts to the system.
>
>After the airplane sits for a couple of weeks, the battery voltage is about
>12.0-12.1 volts (with the instrument panel powered up) Priming with the
>electric fuel pump momentarily drops the voltage to 11 volts. Cranking the
>engine momentarily drops the voltage to 9+ volts.
>
>Is it likely or possible that my panel is not receiving sufficient voltage
>or current to satisfy the needs of the intercom? All other instruments
>appear to work properly.
>
>Dean Pichon
>Bolton, MA
>RV-4
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | What is this device? |
What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about 1/16th
thick plastic with two leads .
Marked
ERIE
3.3 M
100V
Found connect from power bus to ground.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with the
same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than the
c/b is adequate to protect?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard V. Reynolds
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
My RCA-26 draws .76 A at 14 V.
The fuse protects the wire. Fuses do not protect the equipment. If you
decide
to use 10 AWG, then use a 30A fuse.
22 AWG typically calls for a 5 A fuse/CB. If you use a smaller fuse, the
fuse
will blow before the wire burns, That's GOOD.
Richard Reynolds
RV-6A
"Jones, Michael" wrote:
>
> hi all
>
> i have following gyros for my kit plane rc allen dg model rca-15 and
horizon
> model rca-26
> i am wondering what the current draw on them is so i dont have to hook
up
> and measure
> i seem to have written down that the horizon has written on its case
14 vdc
> and 1.0 amp, if this is true and using say 4ft of wire and figure
11-30 from
> ac 43.13 the wire size is off the chart, so how do you size an item
like
> this, perhaps my amps are wrong, if not can someone explain the
example i
> see of 22 awg wire and 2 amp cb's
>
> thanx
>
> mike
> murphy rebel#007
>
> NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
> confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient
> of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
> copy or take any action with respect to it.
>
> If you have received this message in error please notify
> HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin(at)hatch.ca.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael D Crowe" <rv8a(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | What is this device? |
Hal,
It is a capacitor. Used for noise filtering.
Mike Crowe
Subject: AeroElectric-List: What is this device?
What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about
1/16th thick plastic with two leads .
Marked
ERIE
3.3 M
100V
Found connect from power bus to ground.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Errr.. Almost. Should be 'Or at least neither wired with a smaller
wire that the c/b is adequate to protect' Making wire bigger is always
safe. Making wire smaller needs to be done carefully. If you get
a fault to ground, the c/b needs to be small enough that it blows before
the wire gets hot enough to do anything dangerous.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD
>
>
> So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
> dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with the
> same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than the
> c/b is adequate to protect?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard V. Reynolds
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
>
>
>
> My RCA-26 draws .76 A at 14 V.
>
> The fuse protects the wire. Fuses do not protect the equipment. If you
> decide
> to use 10 AWG, then use a 30A fuse.
>
> 22 AWG typically calls for a 5 A fuse/CB. If you use a smaller fuse, the
> fuse
> will blow before the wire burns, That's GOOD.
>
> Richard Reynolds
> RV-6A
>
> "Jones, Michael" wrote:
>
>
>>
>> hi all
>>
>> i have following gyros for my kit plane rc allen dg model rca-15 and
> horizon
>> model rca-26
>> i am wondering what the current draw on them is so i dont have to hook
> up
>> and measure
>> i seem to have written down that the horizon has written on its case
> 14 vdc
>> and 1.0 amp, if this is true and using say 4ft of wire and figure
> 11-30 from
>> ac 43.13 the wire size is off the chart, so how do you size an item
> like
>> this, perhaps my amps are wrong, if not can someone explain the
> example i
>> see of 22 awg wire and 2 amp cb's
>>
>> thanx
>>
>> mike
>> murphy rebel#007
>>
>> NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be
>> confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient
>> of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
>> copy or take any action with respect to it.
>>
>> If you have received this message in error please notify
>> HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin(at)hatch.ca.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this device? |
It appears to be a high frequency decoupling capacitor, used to reduce
conducted interferece. Was it near an instrument?
Vern Little
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>
>What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about 1/16th
thick plastic with two leads .
>
>Marked
>
>ERIE
>
>3.3 M
>
>100V
>
>
>Found connect from power bus to ground.
>
>hal
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Problems in my RV-4 |
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
No, it means that neither must be wired with a wire SMALLER than the
fuse or breaker is capable of protecting. You can use a wire as large
as you wish. It would be rather silly and heavy but if you found some
way to achieve the connections you could theoretically wire your dome
light with #2 wire, your intercom with #20 and protect both with a
single 5 amp fuse. As long as the smallest wire connected in the group
is properly protected by the fuse you are fine.
Bob McC
John Swartout wrote:
>
>So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
>dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with the
>same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than the
>c/b is adequate to protect?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
I have a 5 amp cb on my electric Bob dimmer circuit. I dont remember what
size wire I have running from the breaker to the dimmer but I believe I have
24 or maybe even 28 running to the little lights Vans sells. Would a direct
short in one of these small wires trip the 5 amp c.b.?
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
165 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
>
>
> No, it means that neither must be wired with a wire SMALLER than the
> fuse or breaker is capable of protecting. You can use a wire as large
> as you wish. It would be rather silly and heavy but if you found some
> way to achieve the connections you could theoretically wire your dome
> light with #2 wire, your intercom with #20 and protect both with a
> single 5 amp fuse. As long as the smallest wire connected in the group
> is properly protected by the fuse you are fine.
>
> Bob McC
>
> John Swartout wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
>>dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with the
>>same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than the
>>c/b is adequate to protect?
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jsto1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Yes, any short with a resistance less then 2.4 ohms should trip the
breaker. The time may very depending on the actual resistance.
Crossing bare wires have very low resistance, hense the sparks. Basic
Ohms law: volts = current times resistance.
The wire size and material effects its resistance. Here's an
interesting web site if you want to get more precise.
http://www.redbinary.com/electrist_doc_Drop.php
Jim Stone
Jabiru J450 N450SJ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Dowling
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
-->
I have a 5 amp cb on my electric Bob dimmer circuit. I dont remember
what
size wire I have running from the breaker to the dimmer but I believe I
have
24 or maybe even 28 running to the little lights Vans sells. Would a
direct
short in one of these small wires trip the 5 amp c.b.?
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
165 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
>
>
> No, it means that neither must be wired with a wire SMALLER than the
> fuse or breaker is capable of protecting. You can use a wire as large
> as you wish. It would be rather silly and heavy but if you found some
> way to achieve the connections you could theoretically wire your dome
> light with #2 wire, your intercom with #20 and protect both with a
> single 5 amp fuse. As long as the smallest wire connected in the group
> is properly protected by the fuse you are fine.
>
> Bob McC
>
> John Swartout wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
>>dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with
>>the same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than
>>the c/b is adequate to protect?
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
It will trip the breaker, but... It will also make the
wire very hot and maybe melt the insulation. The chart
on Bob's site (or out of his book) shows that you get a
10 deg C rise by running 5A through a 22g wire. Figure
that you'll get much more using 24g. Looking around, I
found a chart that shows 26g wire will rise 60deg C over
ambient with 5A. Also figure that during the time that
it takes the breaker to trip, the current is MUCH higher.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> I have a 5 amp cb on my electric Bob dimmer circuit. I dont remember
> what size wire I have running from the breaker to the dimmer but I
> believe I have 24 or maybe even 28 running to the little lights Vans
> sells. Would a direct short in one of these small wires trip the 5 amp
> c.b.?
>
> Shemp/Jeff Dowling
> RV-6A, N915JD
> 165 hours
> Chicago/Louisville
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: electric gyros
>
>
>>
>>
>> No, it means that neither must be wired with a wire SMALLER than the
>> fuse or breaker is capable of protecting. You can use a wire as large
>> as you wish. It would be rather silly and heavy but if you found some
>> way to achieve the connections you could theoretically wire your dome
>> light with #2 wire, your intercom with #20 and protect both with a
>> single 5 amp fuse. As long as the smallest wire connected in the group
>> is properly protected by the fuse you are fine.
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>> John Swartout wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So, if you are protecting two circuits with one breaker, for instance,
>>> dome light and intercom, does that mean that both must be wired with
>>> the same size wire? Or at least neither wired with a bigger wire than
>>> the c/b is adequate to protect?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
Probably, if the wire is #22 or #24. If it's #28 (unlikely) then it's
quite possible the wire will "blow" before the breaker trips in a
shorted situation. The recommended minimum wire size for 5 amps under
"most" conditions is #22. If you are using breakers as opposed to fuses
then the time lag for a breaker to trip might heat your #26 or #28 wire
to well beyond the insulation melting point before the breaker gets
around to tripping.
Bob McC
Jeff Dowling wrote:
>
>I have a 5 amp cb on my electric Bob dimmer circuit. I dont remember what
>size wire I have running from the breaker to the dimmer but I believe I have
>24 or maybe even 28 running to the little lights Vans sells. Would a direct
>short in one of these small wires trip the 5 amp c.b.?
>
>Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>RV-6A, N915JD
>165 hours
>Chicago/Louisville
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Garforth" <richard(at)hawk.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Nippon denso alternators |
I am seeking some help with sourcing replacement parts (regulator and diode pack)
for the Vans supplied Nippon -Denso 60 amp alternator. I am located in the
UK and the alternator model is not recognised by the local repair shops. I would
be grateful if anyone can tell me the original vehicle the alternator was fitted
to/part nos. and a US source of parts that will deal via the web.
Richard
G-RVIX (RV-9A)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nippon denso alternators |
Around here only the general parts stores ever ask for the model and
year. The real alternator rebuilders only want the Nippon-Denso number
off the alternator. ND makes quite a number of alternators for non
automotive applications which includes most of the 70amp or less units.
If you have it, you might e-mail the Nippon Denso number to a larger
rebuilder or a North American rebuilder if necessary. A good rebuilder
will also replace the slip rings etc. if required and return a
good-as-new unit if you elect to exchange it. I believe the parts lists
are regularly updated and supplied on CD to rebuilders. You can even try
googling the part number to see what comes up.
Ken
Richard Garforth wrote:
>
>I am seeking some help with sourcing replacement parts (regulator and
diode pack) for the Vans supplied Nippon -Denso 60 amp alternator. I am
located in the UK and the alternator model is not recognised by the
local repair shops. I would be grateful if anyone can tell me the
original vehicle the alternator was fitted to/part nos. and a US source
of parts that will deal via the web.
>
>
>Richard
>G-RVIX (RV-9A)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Problems in my RV-4 |
Check EVERY connection starting inside your headset, a substitute headset
will bypass a lot of connections, all the way back to your transmitter. It
sounds like something warms up and makes good contact. Low volts would only
cause problems during the low volt period. Also check power and ground to
the intercom.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Problems in my RV-4
>
> I have found, recently, that on cold days my intercom does not work well.
> This problem seems to coincide with a "weakened" battery condition caused
by
> not flying for a couple of weeks. With this combination of cold weather
and
> weak battery, my intercom generates a lot of static. My transmissions are
> difficult to understand due to the static levels, but reception remains
> fine. After 30-40 minutes of flying, performance improves dramatically.
>
> The plane has no heat, so I don't believe it is an ambient temperature
issue
> as the cockpit remains cold. PS Engineering, the manufacturer of my
> intercom, has told me that the intercom performance is sensitive to supply
> voltage, but once the engine is running, the alternator supplies an
> indicated 14.2 volts to the system.
>
> After the airplane sits for a couple of weeks, the battery voltage is
about
> 12.0-12.1 volts (with the instrument panel powered up) Priming with the
> electric fuel pump momentarily drops the voltage to 11 volts. Cranking
the
> engine momentarily drops the voltage to 9+ volts.
>
> Is it likely or possible that my panel is not receiving sufficient voltage
> or current to satisfy the needs of the intercom? All other instruments
> appear to work properly.
>
> Dean Pichon
> Bolton, MA
> RV-4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Avionics Wiring Questions |
What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap into it
at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the output pin of the
first device to the input pin of the second device?
Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the same way
as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429 wire? Do I just
crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of the sending device?
Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go into the
Garmin 430 chassis?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap into it
at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the output pin of the first
device to the input pin of the second device?
Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the same way
as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429 wire? Do I just
crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of the sending device?
Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go into the
Garmin 430 chassis?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Vern,
I am using Z-14 in an RV6A with a similar mission profile as you mention. I
went through a different logic.
The weight of the two PC680s + cases + regulators do in fact weigh a little
bit more (than the "normal" battery used in the RVs) BUT for me, I decided
that I would rather take the extra pounds off ME and keep the implied
operational simplicity and reliability of Z-14.
The way I see it ... any single power source failure, I am require to do
*nothing* "right now. Items will be split beforehand so that I can fly home
using only the "left" or the "right" electrical system. If I WANT something
from one side that is totally dead to work, I can just throw the crossfeed
switch **IF** it is not already thrown.
Also, the SD20 will need some "juice" on the field wire so you will need
some sort of external regulator for it (not required for the SD8).
I suspect you have gone through this line of thinking already and discarded
it though.
James
{SNIP}
|
|
| Thanks to John and the others who have had some good comments on this
| subject, and I'm still listening if others have something to add. I hope
| discussing this publicly also helps others in the middle of planning
| their
| electrical systems.
|
| The reason I like the Z13 design so much is that it's really a very
| simple system that can overcome either an in-air primary alternator
| failure
| or a battery failure (or both, for that matter).
| What I'm building is a "cross country" RV7-A with all electric IFR
| panel
| plus Electronic ignition so I definitely want to make my electrical
| system
| bullet proof. At the same time, being an RV, I'd rather not carry an
| extra
| battery if I don't have to as long as I get the backup power I can count
| on.
| Plus, I would be in a less puckerable situation if the backup alternator
| was
| able to supply 20 amps rather than just 8 amps.
| In my mind, and thinking through various failure scenarios, the Z13
| design with the SD20 (instead of the SD8) is really as reliable as the
| Z14
| and without the extra weight of an additional battery.
| If both alternators AND a single battery (Z13 design) were to fail at
| the same moment, then considering the odds against a failure of that
| nature,
| I'm thinking that perhaps that would mean that I just got a direct
| invitation to have a personal conversation with God. :-|
|
| So you see my quandry. I'm not considering so much to save money
| because
| either way costs lots of $$. I'm more concerned with not needing to add
| another battery on a light aircraft, but still end up with enough
| dependable
| power so that the flight can end uneventfully and with almost all
| electrics
| humming along nicely on just the SD20 if need be.
| Even though Bob (hisownself) says that just replacing the SD8 with
| the
| SD20 "wouldn't be (his) choice of architectures", I still want to explore
| that possibility. He doesn't argue against it from a dependability
| standpoint, he just seems to think that (probably) for the money, you
| might
| as well install a second battery (which I don't want to do).
| From what's been said so far, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, it
| looks like all I would need to do is to simply use the SD20 in the Z13
| schematic instead of the SD8, and still use ALL of the rest of the
| original
| Z13 parts including the regulator shown and the OV Crowbar setup and wire
| everything up exactly the same? In other words, just plug in an SD20
| instead
| of the SD8?
|
| Vern
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
| To:
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
|
|
|
| >
| > Vern -
| >
| > We did a solution similar to Dan's. We are using the basic Z-14 &
| > installing the SD-20 on an IO-550. We are not crossfeeding for start.
| So
| > we are installing 2 20 AH batteries. The #1 battery holder is large
| enough
| > to go to a 25AH battery if necessary for cranking. The original design
| was
| > to accommodate two items that may have brown-out problems. One was the
| > aerosance FADEC; which would not function if the busses went below a
| > certain voltage due to cranking. We also wanted to have a separate buss
| > arrangement for each of the two fadec channels. The other was because
| of
| > Blue Mountain's design of the EFIS ONE. Once the FADEC solution was
| > decided it made sense to put the EFIS on the # 2 buss and not worry
| about
| > cranking effects on the EFIS or fadec. Since then, we canned the fadec,
| > but are keeping the same architecture. Eventually we will add
| electronic
| > ignition and separate channels would work for that.
| >
| > I have a .pdf of the Z-14 power layout if you would like to look at it.
| >
| > Cheers,
| >
| > John
| >
| >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Vern,
| > >
| > > I had the same question a couple years ago. The following exchange
| with
| > > Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
| > >
| > > >I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
| > > >more juice in the event of main alternator
| > > >failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
| > > >How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
| > > >of the SD-8?
| > >
| > > Bob wrote:
| > > How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
| > > a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
| > > relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
| > > the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
| > > Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
| > > en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
| > > cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
| > > pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics Wiring Questions |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
According to John Stark from Stark avionics. Arinc and Serial lines can
be split in parallel (definitely not series) to 3 devices w/o
appreciable loss in signal to cause unit data failure.
Mike
I have 3 off my serial, 2 off ARINC in they work fine.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
f1rocket(at)comcast.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Wiring Questions
What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap
into it at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the
output pin of the first device to the input pin of the second device?
Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the
same way as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429
wire? Do I just crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of
the sending device?
Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go
into the Garmin 430 chassis?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap
into it at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the
output pin of the first device to the input pin of the second device?
Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the
same way as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429
wire? Do I just crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of
the sending device?
Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go
into the Garmin 430 chassis?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Wiring Questions |
> -----Original Message-----
> From: f1rocket(at)comcast.net
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (Aeroelectric List)
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:45:08 +0000
>
> Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go
> into the Garmin 430 chassis?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
http://www.steinair.com/connectors.htm
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | crossfeed contactor |
To Everyone
If the crossfeed contactors coil is being powered from the side that is
dead, it will not work. Does it make sense to power the coil to this
contactor from both battery busses?
Regards
Ron Raby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Wiring Questions |
The 'Proper Way' is to drive each connection independently, however in
practice you can get away with two or three loads depending on the
distance and bit rate. If you are concerned about the integrity of your
RS-232 signals, and want to drive each load independently, you can use
an RS-232 repeater, such as described at:
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/vx
The SST-U2 device can drive either two discrete serial channels, or one
channel can drive two loads independently.
Vern Little
RV-9A
f1rocket(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap into it
at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the output pin of the
first device to the input pin of the second device?
>
>Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the same
way as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429 wire? Do I just
crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of the sending device?
>
>Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go into
the Garmin 430 chassis?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
>
>What's the proper way to split a serial (RS232) signal wire? Can I tap into it
at any place? Can I actually chain wires together from the output pin of the
first device to the input pin of the second device?
>
>Also, I understand that ARINC 429 signal wires cannot be tapped into the same
way as serial wires. What's the proper way to split a ARINC 429 wire? Do I just
crimp/solder two output wires off of the output pin of the sending device?
>
>Finally, is there an internet source for the wire connector pins that go into
the Garmin 430 chassis?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket (nearing completion)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crossfeed contactor |
Take a look at Z-14. Either side can power the crossfeed through the
diodes. Just ground the other side of the coil to energize it. There are
pics of the prewired crossfeed on the B&C site.
Ken
Ron Raby wrote:
>
>To Everyone
>
>If the crossfeed contactors coil is being powered from the side that is
>dead, it will not work. Does it make sense to power the coil to this
>contactor from both battery busses?
>
>Regards
>
>Ron Raby
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: crossfeed contactor |
Ken
Thanks, I see it now.
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: crossfeed contactor
>
> Take a look at Z-14. Either side can power the crossfeed through the
> diodes. Just ground the other side of the coil to energize it. There are
> pics of the prewired crossfeed on the B&C site.
> Ken
>
> Ron Raby wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>To Everyone
>>
>>If the crossfeed contactors coil is being powered from the side that is
>>dead, it will not work. Does it make sense to power the coil to this
>>contactor from both battery busses?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Ron Raby
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <vernw(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
James,
Yes, I have given the Z14 design some thought but I'm still confident
(enough) in the
reliability of the Z13 design. I researched a little further and found that
you
are right that the SD20 is not a simple PM alternator like the SD8 so the
SD20 would
in fact need a different regulator and something to excite it (it's own
battery being first choice of exciter).
I just wish there were a PM alternator like the SD8, but that put out a
few more amps like around 12 to 14. That would do the trick for me. B&C does
have a 14amp dynamo, but it's not for the lycoming engine.
In the end, I guess I really need to decide if I want to use the Z13
design as is, or the Z14 design as is.
By the way, do you fly with the crossfeed contactor closed all the time
or does that create a conflict between the two different regulators? Or do
you normally operate with the crossfeed contactor open and so are truly
flying with two separate systems until a time comes when one side has to
feed the other?
Also, who you calling fat :-) ?
Thanks,
Vern
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
>
> Vern,
>
> I am using Z-14 in an RV6A with a similar mission profile as you mention.
I
> went through a different logic.
>
> The weight of the two PC680s + cases + regulators do in fact weigh a
little
> bit more (than the "normal" battery used in the RVs) BUT for me, I decided
> that I would rather take the extra pounds off ME and keep the implied
> operational simplicity and reliability of Z-14.
>
> The way I see it ... any single power source failure, I am require to do
> *nothing* "right now. Items will be split beforehand so that I can fly
home
> using only the "left" or the "right" electrical system. If I WANT
something
> from one side that is totally dead to work, I can just throw the crossfeed
> switch **IF** it is not already thrown.
>
> Also, the SD20 will need some "juice" on the field wire so you will need
> some sort of external regulator for it (not required for the SD8).
>
> I suspect you have gone through this line of thinking already and
discarded
> it though.
>
> James
>
>
> {SNIP}
>
> |
> |
> | Thanks to John and the others who have had some good comments on
this
> | subject, and I'm still listening if others have something to add. I
hope
> | discussing this publicly also helps others in the middle of planning
> | their
> | electrical systems.
> |
> | The reason I like the Z13 design so much is that it's really a very
> | simple system that can overcome either an in-air primary alternator
> | failure
> | or a battery failure (or both, for that matter).
> | What I'm building is a "cross country" RV7-A with all electric IFR
> | panel
> | plus Electronic ignition so I definitely want to make my electrical
> | system
> | bullet proof. At the same time, being an RV, I'd rather not carry an
> | extra
> | battery if I don't have to as long as I get the backup power I can
count
> | on.
> | Plus, I would be in a less puckerable situation if the backup
alternator
> | was
> | able to supply 20 amps rather than just 8 amps.
> | In my mind, and thinking through various failure scenarios, the Z13
> | design with the SD20 (instead of the SD8) is really as reliable as the
> | Z14
> | and without the extra weight of an additional battery.
> | If both alternators AND a single battery (Z13 design) were to fail
at
> | the same moment, then considering the odds against a failure of that
> | nature,
> | I'm thinking that perhaps that would mean that I just got a direct
> | invitation to have a personal conversation with God. :-|
> |
> | So you see my quandry. I'm not considering so much to save money
> | because
> | either way costs lots of $$. I'm more concerned with not needing to add
> | another battery on a light aircraft, but still end up with enough
> | dependable
> | power so that the flight can end uneventfully and with almost all
> | electrics
> | humming along nicely on just the SD20 if need be.
> | Even though Bob (hisownself) says that just replacing the SD8 with
> | the
> | SD20 "wouldn't be (his) choice of architectures", I still want to
explore
> | that possibility. He doesn't argue against it from a dependability
> | standpoint, he just seems to think that (probably) for the money, you
> | might
> | as well install a second battery (which I don't want to do).
> | From what's been said so far, and someone correct me if I'm wrong,
it
> | looks like all I would need to do is to simply use the SD20 in the Z13
> | schematic instead of the SD8, and still use ALL of the rest of the
> | original
> | Z13 parts including the regulator shown and the OV Crowbar setup and
wire
> | everything up exactly the same? In other words, just plug in an SD20
> | instead
> | of the SD8?
> |
> | Vern
> |
> |
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
> | To:
> | Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
> |
> |
> |
> | >
> | > Vern -
> | >
> | > We did a solution similar to Dan's. We are using the basic Z-14 &
> | > installing the SD-20 on an IO-550. We are not crossfeeding for start.
> | So
> | > we are installing 2 20 AH batteries. The #1 battery holder is large
> | enough
> | > to go to a 25AH battery if necessary for cranking. The original
design
> | was
> | > to accommodate two items that may have brown-out problems. One was
the
> | > aerosance FADEC; which would not function if the busses went below a
> | > certain voltage due to cranking. We also wanted to have a separate
buss
> | > arrangement for each of the two fadec channels. The other was because
> | of
> | > Blue Mountain's design of the EFIS ONE. Once the FADEC solution was
> | > decided it made sense to put the EFIS on the # 2 buss and not worry
> | about
> | > cranking effects on the EFIS or fadec. Since then, we canned the
fadec,
> | > but are keeping the same architecture. Eventually we will add
> | electronic
> | > ignition and separate channels would work for that.
> | >
> | > I have a .pdf of the Z-14 power layout if you would like to look at
it.
> | >
> | > Cheers,
> | >
> | > John
> | >
> | >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > Vern,
> | > >
> | > > I had the same question a couple years ago. The following exchange
> | with
> | > > Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
> | > >
> | > > >I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
> | > > >more juice in the event of main alternator
> | > > >failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
> | > > >How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
> | > > >of the SD-8?
> | > >
> | > > Bob wrote:
> | > > How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
> | > > a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
> | > > relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
> | > > the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
> | > > Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
> | > > en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
> | > > cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
> | > > pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Ooopps. Didn't mean to imply anything about anyone but me. I was calling
**ME** overweight. :-)
Second, I am NOT flying yet.
I would *probably* fly with the cross-feed closed **IF** I confirm that this
does not cause a problem. The way I see it, my larger (B&C) alternator would
have a bit more load and its regulator would cause it to come online. It
would do the charging of both batteries.
This will mean that all things will be able to get juice from all sources so
to speak.
Otherwise, I will fly with it open and if "stuff goes dark", I throw the
cross-feed switch.
It just seems so much cleaner from an operational standpoint. Maybe I am
kidding myself but I feel I then have twice the reliability (two potentially
independent systems) for keeping the lights on. Belt and suspenders so I
sweat less if I am ever IFR, at night, over the mountains, blah, blah :-)
James
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W.
| Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:58 PM
| To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
|
|
| James,
| Yes, I have given the Z14 design some thought but I'm still confident
| (enough) in the
| reliability of the Z13 design. I researched a little further and found
| that
| you
| are right that the SD20 is not a simple PM alternator like the SD8 so the
| SD20 would
| in fact need a different regulator and something to excite it (it's own
| battery being first choice of exciter).
| I just wish there were a PM alternator like the SD8, but that put out
| a
| few more amps like around 12 to 14. That would do the trick for me. B&C
| does
| have a 14amp dynamo, but it's not for the lycoming engine.
| In the end, I guess I really need to decide if I want to use the Z13
| design as is, or the Z14 design as is.
|
| By the way, do you fly with the crossfeed contactor closed all the
| time
| or does that create a conflict between the two different regulators? Or
| do
| you normally operate with the crossfeed contactor open and so are truly
| flying with two separate systems until a time comes when one side has to
| feed the other?
|
| Also, who you calling fat :-) ?
|
| Thanks,
| Vern
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
| To:
| Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
|
|
|
| >
| > Vern,
| >
| > I am using Z-14 in an RV6A with a similar mission profile as you
| mention.
| I
| > went through a different logic.
| >
| > The weight of the two PC680s + cases + regulators do in fact weigh a
| little
| > bit more (than the "normal" battery used in the RVs) BUT for me, I
| decided
| > that I would rather take the extra pounds off ME and keep the implied
| > operational simplicity and reliability of Z-14.
| >
| > The way I see it ... any single power source failure, I am require to
| do
| > *nothing* "right now. Items will be split beforehand so that I can fly
| home
| > using only the "left" or the "right" electrical system. If I WANT
| something
| > from one side that is totally dead to work, I can just throw the
| crossfeed
| > switch **IF** it is not already thrown.
| >
| > Also, the SD20 will need some "juice" on the field wire so you will
| need
| > some sort of external regulator for it (not required for the SD8).
| >
| > I suspect you have gone through this line of thinking already and
| discarded
| > it though.
| >
| > James
| >
| >
| > {SNIP}
| >
| > |
| > |
| > | Thanks to John and the others who have had some good comments on
| this
| > | subject, and I'm still listening if others have something to add. I
| hope
| > | discussing this publicly also helps others in the middle of planning
| > | their
| > | electrical systems.
| > |
| > | The reason I like the Z13 design so much is that it's really a
| very
| > | simple system that can overcome either an in-air primary alternator
| > | failure
| > | or a battery failure (or both, for that matter).
| > | What I'm building is a "cross country" RV7-A with all electric
| IFR
| > | panel
| > | plus Electronic ignition so I definitely want to make my electrical
| > | system
| > | bullet proof. At the same time, being an RV, I'd rather not carry an
| > | extra
| > | battery if I don't have to as long as I get the backup power I can
| count
| > | on.
| > | Plus, I would be in a less puckerable situation if the backup
| alternator
| > | was
| > | able to supply 20 amps rather than just 8 amps.
| > | In my mind, and thinking through various failure scenarios, the
| Z13
| > | design with the SD20 (instead of the SD8) is really as reliable as
| the
| > | Z14
| > | and without the extra weight of an additional battery.
| > | If both alternators AND a single battery (Z13 design) were to
| fail
| at
| > | the same moment, then considering the odds against a failure of that
| > | nature,
| > | I'm thinking that perhaps that would mean that I just got a direct
| > | invitation to have a personal conversation with God. :-|
| > |
| > | So you see my quandry. I'm not considering so much to save money
| > | because
| > | either way costs lots of $$. I'm more concerned with not needing to
| add
| > | another battery on a light aircraft, but still end up with enough
| > | dependable
| > | power so that the flight can end uneventfully and with almost all
| > | electrics
| > | humming along nicely on just the SD20 if need be.
| > | Even though Bob (hisownself) says that just replacing the SD8
| with
| > | the
| > | SD20 "wouldn't be (his) choice of architectures", I still want to
| explore
| > | that possibility. He doesn't argue against it from a dependability
| > | standpoint, he just seems to think that (probably) for the money,
| you
| > | might
| > | as well install a second battery (which I don't want to do).
| > | From what's been said so far, and someone correct me if I'm
| wrong,
| it
| > | looks like all I would need to do is to simply use the SD20 in the
| Z13
| > | schematic instead of the SD8, and still use ALL of the rest of the
| > | original
| > | Z13 parts including the regulator shown and the OV Crowbar setup and
| wire
| > | everything up exactly the same? In other words, just plug in an SD20
| > | instead
| > | of the SD8?
| > |
| > | Vern
| > |
| > |
| > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
| > | To:
| > | Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | >
| > | > Vern -
| > | >
| > | > We did a solution similar to Dan's. We are using the basic Z-14 &
| > | > installing the SD-20 on an IO-550. We are not crossfeeding for
| start.
| > | So
| > | > we are installing 2 20 AH batteries. The #1 battery holder is
| large
| > | enough
| > | > to go to a 25AH battery if necessary for cranking. The original
| design
| > | was
| > | > to accommodate two items that may have brown-out problems. One was
| the
| > | > aerosance FADEC; which would not function if the busses went below
| a
| > | > certain voltage due to cranking. We also wanted to have a separate
| buss
| > | > arrangement for each of the two fadec channels. The other was
| because
| > | of
| > | > Blue Mountain's design of the EFIS ONE. Once the FADEC solution
| was
| > | > decided it made sense to put the EFIS on the # 2 buss and not
| worry
| > | about
| > | > cranking effects on the EFIS or fadec. Since then, we canned the
| fadec,
| > | > but are keeping the same architecture. Eventually we will add
| > | electronic
| > | > ignition and separate channels would work for that.
| > | >
| > | > I have a .pdf of the Z-14 power layout if you would like to look
| at
| it.
| > | >
| > | > Cheers,
| > | >
| > | > John
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Vern,
| > | > >
| > | > > I had the same question a couple years ago. The following
| exchange
| > | with
| > | > > Bob helped me. I decided to go with Z-14.
| > | > >
| > | > > >I am planning on using the SD-20 so I can have a little
| > | > > >more juice in the event of main alternator
| > | > > >failure (to cover pitot heat, for example.)
| > | > > >How should Z-13 be modified to wire in the SD-20 instead
| > | > > >of the SD-8?
| > | > >
| > | > > Bob wrote:
| > | > > How about a variation on Z-14. Use S704-1 relays for
| > | > > a low current (30A) cross-feed, and as the battery
| > | > > relay for a small (6 a.h. or so) battery to stabilize
| > | > > the SD-20 when the cross-feed is open. Use the Aux
| > | > > Bus as you would the E-bus and put all the main-alt-out
| > | > > en route loads on the Aux Bus. You wouldn't close the
| > | > > cross-feed during cranking in this case so a single
| > | > > pole, single throw cross-feed switch would suffice.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Girard <fly.ez(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Vern, Your local John Deere dealer has PM alternators up to 60 amps,
IIRC. Sorry I don't have part numbers, but you might be able to find
them by searching the archives of the Aircraft Rotary Engine (ACRE) web
site.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Aldrich" <sa(at)mwutah.com> |
Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad, with the Avcomm DX-AC6PA
intercoms??
Thanks,
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1deltawhiskey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: electric gyros |
In a message dated 23-Feb-05 21:40:11 Pacific Standard Time,
robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca writes:
If you are using breakers as opposed to fuses
then the time lag for a breaker to trip might heat your #26 or #28 wire
to well beyond the insulation melting point before the breaker gets
around to tripping.
Think that is why Bob/B&C distributes their fuselink kits with a fire
resistive sleeve - to catch that stuff. Ultimately, the link is supposed to operate
even slower than a breaker, and much slower than a fuse. Look at is as being
a different kind of fuse (real slow blow) for certain applications. A direct
short down stream would probably produce enough current to MELT THE COPPER.
Hopefully this occurs before the wire one is protecting melts its insulation,
and why 4 wire sizes smaller is commonly recommended.
Doug Windhorn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: crossfeed contactor |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Ron -
If I read the Z-14 diagram correctly, the crossfeed coil is fed from both
sides thru the two diodes. Let me know if this is true.
Thanks,
John
> If the crossfeed contactors coil is being powered from the side that is
> dead, it will not work. Does it make sense to power the coil to this
> contactor from both battery busses?
>
> Regards
>
> Ron Raby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14 |
Vern
Try http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html . It has some
of the info that you are looking for.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Girard" <fly.ez(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
>
> Vern, Your local John Deere dealer has PM alternators up to 60 amps,
> IIRC. Sorry I don't have part numbers, but you might be able to find
> them by searching the archives of the Aircraft Rotary Engine (ACRE) web
> site.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gianni Zuliani" <gz(at)comgz.com> |
| Subject: | Air pressure switch |
Good morning listers,
On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To this
end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low anemometric
pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI).
Has anybody already faced this application or searched for such a switch?
Thanks.
Gianni Zuliani
Tel/Fax +41 91 9710850
Mobile +41 79 3373439
Long-Ez >> Stag-Ez >>Stag-EzRG
http://www.comgz.com/tristar.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Air pressure switch |
Goto www.digikey.com and search for MPX pressure sensors. These pressure
sensors will do what you want. Note you will want a differential pressure
sensor connected to pitot and static ports.
Regards,
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gianni
Zuliani
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Air pressure switch
Good morning listers,
On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To this
end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low anemometric
pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI).
Has anybody already faced this application or searched for such a switch?
Thanks.
Gianni Zuliani
Tel/Fax +41 91 9710850
Mobile +41 79 3373439
Long-Ez >> Stag-Ez >>Stag-EzRG
http://www.comgz.com/tristar.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
A motorola solid state pressure sensor/Digi-Key MPXV5004GC6U-ND will do
it. $26., good for 0 to 4 kpa or 0 to 0.6 psi. Outputs 0 to 5 volts so
is a good match for a comparator with a bit of hysterisis and set the
trip point for 90 Kt. or wherever. Or there are some commercial gear
alarms available if you don't want to do it yourself.
Ken
Gianni Zuliani wrote:
>
>Good morning listers,
>On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
>retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
>airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To this
>end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low anemometric
>pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI).
>Has anybody already faced this application or searched for such a switch?
>Thanks.
>Gianni Zuliani
>Tel/Fax +41 91 9710850
>Mobile +41 79 3373439
>Long-Ez >> Stag-Ez >>Stag-EzRG
>http://www.comgz.com/tristar.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
I may have some info for you. We installed a device like this on a Velocity. When
my
hangar mate gets back into town I'll get the info for you.
Peter Laurence
On 25 Feb 2005 at 11:48, Gianni Zuliani wrote:
>
>
> Good morning listers,
> On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
> retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
> airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To
> this end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low
> anemometric pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI). Has anybody already
> faced this application or searched for such a switch? Thanks. Gianni
> Zuliani Tel/Fax +41 91 9710850 Mobile +41 79 3373439 Long-Ez >>
> Stag-Ez >>Stag-EzRG http://www.comgz.com/tristar.htm
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | No more fuel to transfer |
Hi guys,
My Jodel has a two-tank setup with a main tank from which the engine gets
its fuel and an aux tank under the rear bench. There is a facet fuel pump to
transfer fuel from the aux to the main tank.
The problem: How do I detect when to shut down the transfer pump when the
aux tank runs dry?
I could think of a flow switch in the fuel line. Probably works well, but is
fairly expensive
I could envision using a pressure switch right after the fuel pump, but
before the inline filter and the 6 ft of fuel line. If the switch is
sensitive enough, it will at least allow me to light a LED and/or a buzzer
to warn me. Question would be if I could locate a pressure switch with
enough sensitivity to trigger on this low pressure.
Or option three: and here's my question: couldn't I simply monitor the
current that goes to the fuel pump and deduct from that wether the pump is
pumping fuel or air? And then what? A shunt, some electronics, a comparator
and a light + buzzer??
Thanks!
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stand-by and Second Alternators (subject line change) |
If anyone manages to fit one of the J.D. units onto a Lyc like the SD8 is
mounted, I'm interested in do this too. The cost seems very favorable for
the J.D. device. A while back there was some "chatter" about the SD8 having
output problems at both low RPM and at high temperatures. The low RPM issue
isn't much of a factor in flight but not being able to actually put out
8amps at it rated rpm due to temperature issues is not helpful if this is
the case. Bob, did this testing ever get completed?
Marty in Brentwood TN
Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
Vern
Try http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html . It has
some
of the info that you are looking for.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Girard" <fly.ez(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mixing Z13 and Z14
>
> Vern, Your local John Deere dealer has PM alternators up to 60 amps,
> IIRC. Sorry I don't have part numbers, but you might be able to find
> them by searching the archives of the Aircraft Rotary Engine (ACRE)
web
> site.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No more fuel to transfer |
| From: | pengilly(at)southwest.com.au |
Try a pillar point fuel tank monitor this is what you need
http://www.ppavionics.com/
Regards
Paul P
Glasair in progress
>
> Hi guys,
>
> My Jodel has a two-tank setup with a main tank from which the engine gets
> its fuel and an aux tank under the rear bench. There is a facet fuel pump
> to
> transfer fuel from the aux to the main tank.
>
> The problem: How do I detect when to shut down the transfer pump when the
> aux tank runs dry?
>
> I could think of a flow switch in the fuel line. Probably works well, but
> is
> fairly expensive
>
> I could envision using a pressure switch right after the fuel pump, but
> before the inline filter and the 6 ft of fuel line. If the switch is
> sensitive enough, it will at least allow me to light a LED and/or a buzzer
> to warn me. Question would be if I could locate a pressure switch with
> enough sensitivity to trigger on this low pressure.
>
> Or option three: and here's my question: couldn't I simply monitor the
> current that goes to the fuel pump and deduct from that wether the pump is
> pumping fuel or air? And then what? A shunt, some electronics, a
> comparator
> and a light + buzzer??
>
> Thanks!
>
> Hans
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: No more fuel to transfer |
If you can, you can put in a liquid sensor and mount it low. When it comes
on, you have very little fuel left. If you have a fuel guage in the main
tank, then another indication would be that the fuel guage stops rising.
Bob Kuc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: No more fuel to transfer
>
> Hi guys,
>
> My Jodel has a two-tank setup with a main tank from which the engine gets
> its fuel and an aux tank under the rear bench. There is a facet fuel pump
to
> transfer fuel from the aux to the main tank.
>
> The problem: How do I detect when to shut down the transfer pump when the
> aux tank runs dry?
>
> I could think of a flow switch in the fuel line. Probably works well, but
is
> fairly expensive
>
> I could envision using a pressure switch right after the fuel pump, but
> before the inline filter and the 6 ft of fuel line. If the switch is
> sensitive enough, it will at least allow me to light a LED and/or a buzzer
> to warn me. Question would be if I could locate a pressure switch with
> enough sensitivity to trigger on this low pressure.
>
> Or option three: and here's my question: couldn't I simply monitor the
> current that goes to the fuel pump and deduct from that wether the pump is
> pumping fuel or air? And then what? A shunt, some electronics, a
comparator
> and a light + buzzer??
>
> Thanks!
>
> Hans
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | SD-8 on a Rotax 914 |
2.00 DATE_IN_FUTURE_24_48 Date": is.24.to.48.hours.after.Received:date(at)matronics.com
Hi All
I have a 914 which is dependent on electric fuel pumps. I am thinking of
putting an SD-8 on the empty vacume pump pad. Does anyone know what
output I might expect from the SD-8 in cruise, say 5200 rpm?
Kevin
Europa nearing completion, no electrical plan started yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Angier & Gynna <N2811A(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cables |
The battery is behind the co-pilot seat in my Lancair. When installing the +/-
cables going forward through the firewall, should these cables have several twists
or is it ok to simply run then parallel to eachother?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Angier Ames
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
> On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
> retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
> airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To this
> end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low
> anemometric
> pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI).
> Has anybody already faced this application or searched for such a switch?
Airspeed Switch
Value Engineered Products
3541 Old Conejo Road, Ste #117
Newbury Park, CA 91320
(805) 499-1959
(805) 499-1955
email: vep1(at)pacbell.net
www.veproducts.com
Part #654A53.2 set at 80 knots
It's a little pricy, but it works perfectly. I've installed one on two
Berkuts now.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | PMA-4000 audio panel |
Can anyone recommend (or not), the PMA-4000 audio panel from PS engineering?
I'll have two radios, one nav, and want to have a high quality ICS with music input.
This unit is not stereo but I am under the impression that having stereo
is not really important due to the high ambient noise levels. Is this true?
Thanks,
Jim
Harmon Rocket
final year (2nd anniversary)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | PMA-4000 audio panel |
I can definitely tell the difference between stereo and mono. Especially
with good ANR headsets.
You might want to get a stereo model now and not regret it later if you plan
to listen to "tunes" in flight.
James
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
| Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:24 AM
| To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
|
|
|
| Can anyone recommend (or not), the PMA-4000 audio panel from PS
| engineering?
|
| I'll have two radios, one nav, and want to have a high quality ICS with
| music input. This unit is not stereo but I am under the impression that
| having stereo is not really important due to the high ambient noise
| levels. Is this true?
|
| Thanks,
| Jim
| Harmon Rocket
| final year (2nd anniversary)
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PMA-4000 audio panel |
One man's opinion on stereo:
I have a mono intercom and wish I had gone with stereo.
My original thinking was as you said, high noise level in cockpit, plus
my ears are shot from overexposure to jet noise and aging of same.
HOWEVER what has changed in this century is the ANR headsets, and
digital music. Whole nother ball game. Noise goes away. Music sounds
wonderful.
Go for the stereo. Hang the cost. Full speed ahead.
Unless of course you are just going to fly that rocket like a spam
can. Music is not essential for straight and level flight.
Denis
On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone recommend (or not), the PMA-4000 audio panel from PS
> engineering?
>
> I'll have two radios, one nav, and want to have a high quality ICS
> with music input. This unit is not stereo but I am under the
> impression that having stereo is not really important due to the high
> ambient noise levels. Is this true?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> Harmon Rocket
> final year (2nd anniversary)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
Gianni,
I have a switch built in from Conrad electronics which switches on my Hoobs
meter when I reach 43 kts. It's just to cold in Buttwil to check, but should
be no problem.
Werner (HB-YKP)
----- Original Message -----
From: <plaurence@the-beach.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Air pressure switch
>
> I may have some info for you. We installed a device like this on a
Velocity. When my
> hangar mate gets back into town I'll get the info for you.
>
> Peter Laurence
>
> On 25 Feb 2005 at 11:48, Gianni Zuliani wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Good morning listers,
> > On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
> > retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
> > airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To
> > this end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low
> > anemometric pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI). Has anybody already
> > faced this application or searched for such a switch? Thanks. Gianni
> > Zuliani Tel/Fax +41 91 9710850 Mobile +41 79 3373439 Long-Ez >>
> > Stag-Ez >>Stag-EzRG http://www.comgz.com/tristar.htm
> >
> >
> > advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | What is this device - again as I seriously doubt that |
it is a capicator
I know I have already been told what it is. Can someone say for sure and tell
me what the numbers mean? Where can I get another one? I don't see anything
in Digikey catalog.
I've been told it is a capacitor, a resistor and a MOV.
hal
What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about 1/16th
thick plastic with two leads .
Marked
ERIE
3.3 M
100V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-9a-online <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this device - again as I seriously |
doubt that it is a capicator
Here's my take:
Murata is the manufacturer. Erie is no longer in business, purchased by
Murata apparently.
check http://www.murata.com/catalog/c49e15.pdf
It looks like a 3.3 nF 20% (Z5U) capacitor. Murata does not specify
the parts the same, so the nF is inferred. It's too big to by 3.3 pF,
and too small to be 3.3 uF.
A photo would be useful in identification.
Vern Little
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>I know I have already been told what it is. Can someone say for sure and tell
me what the numbers mean? Where can I get another one? I don't see anything
in Digikey catalog.
>
>I've been told it is a capacitor, a resistor and a MOV.
>
>hal
>
>
>What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about 1/16th
thick plastic with two leads .
>
>Marked
>
>ERIE
>
>3.3 M
>
>100V
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is this device - again as I seriously |
doubt that it is a capicator
It is probably a capacitor. With nothing more than the markings and a
general description it is really hard to specifically identify it.
Where is it? What is it connected to?
It is very likely NOT a resistor. There are hardly any resistors that
come in a thin square package (none that I know of and I am an EE).
Do you have any sort of test equipment? A DVM even?
Erie no longer exists, but I know that they made capacitors when they
did. I do not know whether they made MOVs but probably not.
A picture would be nice...
Dick Tasker
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>I know I have already been told what it is. Can someone say for sure and tell
me what the numbers mean? Where can I get another one? I don't see anything
in Digikey catalog.
>
>I've been told it is a capacitor, a resistor and a MOV.
>
>hal
>
>
>What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and about 1/16th
thick plastic with two leads .
>
>Marked
>
>ERIE
>
>3.3 M
>
>100V
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PMA-4000 audio panel |
Thanks, Tunes are very important.
Can you recommend a great unit?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
>
>
> I can definitely tell the difference between stereo and mono. Especially
> with good ANR headsets.
>
> You might want to get a stereo model now and not regret it later if you
> plan
> to listen to "tunes" in flight.
>
> James
>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> | aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
> | Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:24 AM
> | To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> | Subject: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
> |
> |
> |
> | Can anyone recommend (or not), the PMA-4000 audio panel from PS
> | engineering?
> |
> | I'll have two radios, one nav, and want to have a high quality ICS with
> | music input. This unit is not stereo but I am under the impression
> that
> | having stereo is not really important due to the high ambient noise
> | levels. Is this true?
> |
> | Thanks,
> | Jim
> | Harmon Rocket
> | final year (2nd anniversary)
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PMA-4000 audio panel |
Alright, now to find a high quality Stereo unit.
Thanks,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Walsh" <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
>
>
> One man's opinion on stereo:
>
> I have a mono intercom and wish I had gone with stereo.
>
> My original thinking was as you said, high noise level in cockpit, plus
> my ears are shot from overexposure to jet noise and aging of same.
>
> HOWEVER what has changed in this century is the ANR headsets, and
> digital music. Whole nother ball game. Noise goes away. Music sounds
> wonderful.
>
> Go for the stereo. Hang the cost. Full speed ahead.
>
> Unless of course you are just going to fly that rocket like a spam
> can. Music is not essential for straight and level flight.
>
> Denis
> On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone recommend (or not), the PMA-4000 audio panel from PS
>> engineering?
>>
>> I'll have two radios, one nav, and want to have a high quality ICS
>> with music input. This unit is not stereo but I am under the
>> impression that having stereo is not really important due to the high
>> ambient noise levels. Is this true?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>> Harmon Rocket
>> final year (2nd anniversary)
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this device - again as I seriously doubt |
that it is a capicator
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Agree.. And I would add that the particular value of the capacitor is not
of any real concern. I am not even convinced that a capacitor that small
will have a beneficial effect on system performance. Capacitors are added
to a bus to reduce noise propagation at a particular point on the bus.
Generally, the smaller the capacitor, because of reduced lead inductance,
the higher the frequency that it is useful for filtering. Conversely, the
smaller
the capacitor, the less it is able to damp the large voltage swings that may
be on a power bus. I would guess that a cap that is as physically small
as you
have described would be most effective at reducing electrical noise in the RF
frequency range. Chances are that it was added to combat some kind of
noise that was audible on the radio.
Is the capacitor damaged?
Getting the absolutely correct capacitor value is only critical where you
intend to design a resonant circuit which will oscillate at a particular
frequency,
or timing.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> It is probably a capacitor. With nothing more than the markings and a
> general description it is really hard to specifically identify it.
> Where is it? What is it connected to?
>
> It is very likely NOT a resistor. There are hardly any resistors that
> come in a thin square package (none that I know of and I am an EE).
>
> Do you have any sort of test equipment? A DVM even?
>
> Erie no longer exists, but I know that they made capacitors when they
> did. I do not know whether they made MOVs but probably not.
>
> A picture would be nice...
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I know I have already been told what it is. Can someone say for sure
>> and tell me what the numbers mean? Where can I get another one? I
>> don't see anything in Digikey catalog.
>>
>>I've been told it is a capacitor, a resistor and a MOV.
>>
>>hal
>>
>>
>>What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and
>> about 1/16th thick plastic with two leads .
>>
>>Marked
>>
>>ERIE
>>
>>3.3 M
>>
>>100V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | PMA-4000 audio panel |
Cannot recommend a great unit as I don't know yet.
I am considering the Garmin (because the radios are gonna be Garmin) GMA340
***BUT*** may revisit and go with PS Engineering.
See http://www.ps-engineering.com/audio.shtml .
In two airplanes at present I use the DRE 244e and it works great. But it is
not an audio panel ... just an intercom.
James
{SNIP}
| Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
|
|
|
| Thanks, Tunes are very important.
| Can you recommend a great unit?
| Jim
| ----- Original Message -----
{SNIP}
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is this device - again as I seriously doubt |
that it is a capicator
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
One more thing... I found a pretty handy guide for identifying capacitor
values.
http://www.twysted-pair.com/capidcds.htm
Looks to me like you have a 3.3uF cap there.
Google is great.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> It is probably a capacitor. With nothing more than the markings and a
> general description it is really hard to specifically identify it.
> Where is it? What is it connected to?
>
> It is very likely NOT a resistor. There are hardly any resistors that
> come in a thin square package (none that I know of and I am an EE).
>
> Do you have any sort of test equipment? A DVM even?
>
> Erie no longer exists, but I know that they made capacitors when they
> did. I do not know whether they made MOVs but probably not.
>
> A picture would be nice...
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I know I have already been told what it is. Can someone say for sure
>> and tell me what the numbers mean? Where can I get another one? I
>> don't see anything in Digikey catalog.
>>
>>I've been told it is a capacitor, a resistor and a MOV.
>>
>>hal
>>
>>
>>What the heck is this part? It is red, about half an inch square and
>> about 1/16th thick plastic with two leads .
>>
>>Marked
>>
>>ERIE
>>
>>3.3 M
>>
>>100V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Garforth" <richard(at)hawk.flyer.co.uk> |
Ken,
Thanks for the ideas - unfortunately whoever rebuilds these Alternators for Vans
blasts the numbers away when they clean up the casings !
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | transponder antenna cable near other cables? |
Hi,
The most convenient routing for my transponder antenna cable is
along with cables for my flap motor cables, autopilot servo
cables, and aileron trim cables. Does anyone know if this
might cause any problems with electrical interference?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: PMA-4000 audio panel |
I'm also considering the Garmin GMA 340. It's not too expensive,
actually cheaper than the equivalent PMA unit, and seems to do
a lot. All our club's Pipers have them, and they seem to work
fine. It is really overkill for what I need, but I can't find
a cheap stereo equivalent of the PMA-4000, unfortunately.
Mickey
James E. Clark wrote:
>
> Cannot recommend a great unit as I don't know yet.
>
> I am considering the Garmin (because the radios are gonna be Garmin) GMA340
> ***BUT*** may revisit and go with PS Engineering.
>
> See http://www.ps-engineering.com/audio.shtml .
>
> In two airplanes at present I use the DRE 244e and it works great. But it is
> not an audio panel ... just an intercom.
>
> James
>
>
> {SNIP}
>
> | Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PMA-4000 audio panel
> |
> |
> |
> | Thanks, Tunes are very important.
> | Can you recommend a great unit?
> | Jim
> | ----- Original Message -----
> {SNIP}
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cables |
Mine are all parallel. It's neater and just as effective as twisting
AFAIK. Either way should cancel the magnetic effects.
The only ones I twisted were the AC feed from the PM alternator to make
sure they stayed close together when bundled.
Ken
Angier & Gynna wrote:
>
>The battery is behind the co-pilot seat in my Lancair. When installing the +/-
cables going forward through the firewall, should these cables have several twists
or is it ok to simply run then parallel to eachother?
>
>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Angier Ames
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ND Alternators |
Too bad, that probably turns it into a throw away item and it says a lot
about the rebuilder. Bet the rebuilders name is not on it either then!
Ken
Richard Garforth wrote:
>
>Ken,
>
>Thanks for the ideas - unfortunately whoever rebuilds these Alternators for Vans
blasts the numbers away when they clean up the casings !
>
>
>Richard
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Hall" <mhall67(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | equipment amp loads? |
I thought some time ago I saw a list on the web that had amp load for equipment
(ie Garmin engine monoters and such)? Could any one point me to that sight?
Regards,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: [Stinson] Genave marker receiver pinout? |
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data Bob Nuckolls has a data base of radio pin-outs/ But it doesn't seem to be on the site.
I am forwarding your request to the aeroelectric-list@matronics list
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: fixbritishcars
To: Stinson(at)yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: [Stinson] Genave marker receiver pinout?
I an have a Genave Delta 300 marker beacon receiver that I want to
install in my Stinson. I have no diagram for it. Does anyone have the
pin out for this? If so please e-mail me, phone me 314-808-0281 or
fax inro to 573-237-3605. MANY THANKS
Andy
8968K
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stinson/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Stinson-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <Richard(at)RILEY.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Air pressure switch |
I have a pamphlet from UMA instruments saying they have such a switch, but
I don't find it on their website.
At 02:48 AM 2/25/05, you wrote:
>
>Good morning listers,
>On my Stag-EZRG canard I'd like to install a device which prevents
>retracting the landing gear below 90 Kt and arms an alarm in case my
>airspeed goes below 90 Kt and my landing gear is still retracted. To this
>end I'm looking for an air pressure switch which senses very low anemometric
>pressure ( I've calculated 0.2 PSI).
>Has anybody already faced this application or searched for such a switch?
>Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Winn (Matronics List)" <swmat(at)cox.net> |
I have a switching application on my panel that selects between Off,
Primary and Aux. The switch I selected to perform the switching is a
2-1 type switch. The problem I am having is that everything else on my
panel is pointed down for the off positsion. The 2-1 switch has it's
off position in the middle which isn't what I want. I would really like
to be consistent with the operation of the switches on my panel so that
when something is turned Off, it is pointed down. I need a DP3T switch
to perform this task, but B & C doesn't carry one. It is also very
important to me to have identical size and feel of switches on the
panel, so I'd prefer to get a switch that exactly matches the size,
shape and operation of the B & C switches. Since I ordered a bunch of
switches from them, I Iooked up the manufacturer and it appears that
they do not manufacture a DP3T switch. Does anyone know of a DP3T
switch that has the same size bat toggle as the B&C switches?
--Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | aircraft wiring course slides |
My apologies if this is information is already widely distributed:
I ran across this PowerPoint wiring course while surfing the net. While I
haven't read everything, the topic appears to be relevant to wiring best
practices... Some information appears to be restatement of information already
contained AC43-13.
http://www.academy.jccbi.gov/airdl/wiringcourse/
=====
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | wire labeling practices |
Can someone point me to a good source/example of wire labeling and
identification best practices? Are folks using fancy mil-spec labels, just
printing & heat shrinking them on, or something else???
Thanks in advance,
Jay
P.S. This group is a much appreciated resource!
=====
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Butcher" <europa(at)triton.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SD-8 on a Rotax 914 |
Kevin,
You won't get much because the vacuum drive runs at 54% of engine rpm. Even
the SD 20 only gives about 10A at 5000 rpm on the Rotax.
On my Europa with 914 I copied Jim Nelson's install of the alternator driven
off the rear of the crankshaft. It fits nicely inside the engine frame and
produces over 40A. I can supply more details, photos and even parts if you
wish. I understand that B&C is developing a similar setup.
Another solution is the belt driven Rotax alternator. Flightcrafters did
this on the Yellow Bird Europa. It involved a lot of rework of the cowl.
Lastly, Flightcrafters has an alternator that mounts to the vacuum pad that
puts out more than the SD8 or SD20. Check with Bob Berube for details.
Jim Butcher Europa N241BW A185
Paint done, doing final engine install
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire labeling practices |
Hi Jay,
I have followed the procedure that Bob Nuccolls wrote about. That is
printing labels and covering them with clear shrink tubing. I used a
couple of wrinkles that might be a slightly different. Since I use an
ink jet printer, and knowing that the ink is water affected, I printed
them on plain paper using the label program for a specific Avery label.
Then took the paper to Kinko's and had them copy them onto Avery labels
that I supplied. Their charge was the regular copying per page charge. I
then peeled off the labels, cut out the pieces that I wanted to use,
wrapped the label around the wire and shrunk clear shrink tubing that I
bought from Aeroelectric (now, probably from B&S). By using a small
point size font and repeating the text vertically, some text will show
without having to specially orient the label.
This worked well for me and was very easy to do.
If some of this is a bit unclear, I' d be glad to try to re-explain any
part.
Regards and good luck,
Richard Dudley
-6A flying
Jay Brinkmeyer wrote:
>
>Can someone point me to a good source/example of wire labeling and
>identification best practices? Are folks using fancy mil-spec labels, just
>printing & heat shrinking them on, or something else???
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jay
>
>P.S. This group is a much appreciated resource!
>
>=====
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <b.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SD-8 on a Rotax 914 |
>
>
>Hi All
>
>I have a 914 which is dependent on electric fuel pumps. I am thinking of
>putting an SD-8 on the empty vacume pump pad. Does anyone know what
>output I might expect from the SD-8 in cruise, say 5200 rpm?
Call B&C and find out. I think you're going to hear
that the vacuum pump pad on the Rotax engines turns
too slow for any practical output from B&C's pad
mounted products.
Their number is 316.283.8000
February 16, 2005 - February 26, 2005
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ea