AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fk
February 12, 2006 - February 21, 2006
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:51 PM
| Subject: | Re: Bosch Ice cube relay |
>
>I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not
>understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the
web
>to no avail. There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use
>this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will
>have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry
>for being so electronically dump.
>
>http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
See drawings in the package at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf
Sheet 3 or 4 is probably what you want.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Anderson" <s_s_and(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3.5 MM stereo plug |
I am wiring in a Garmin 396 and Roady 2 to my Garmin audio panel. I have a
switch STTP (single throw, triple pole). Anyway on my 3.5 mm stereo plug, I
assume the nearest to the tip is left channel, the next area of the plug is
right channel, the nearest area to the root of the plug is ground. Is there
any info on wiring up a 3.5 mm stereo plug? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
COMPUSA has TurboCad Designer on sale for $9.99 after rebate in this coming
week's ad.
Wally Hunt
Rockford, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> thermocouple probe |
| Subject: | Re: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple |
probe
>
>
>Listers:
>
>I have a Jabiru 3300 6 cylinder engine that uses spark plugs with a thread
>diameter of 0.645 inches. I wish to use ring terminals of 3/8 inch
>diameter drilled out to 15/32=3D0.4688 inches. (Using a Unibit will allow
>a clean cut.) This will center the probe more accurately than some
>commercial probes, and it allows me to make my thermocouples using type J
>wire that I bought from Omega. I don't want any splices, and will custom
>fit each wire, with an appropriate service loop.
>
>My question is this. I wish to insulate the 1/4 inch or less soldered end
>of the thermocouple. Should I use a bit of tefzel insulation, or plumbing
>Teflon tape? Is there a thin ceramic that is used that I never heard
>of? The main question is what sort of potting compound to use. I haven't
>researched high temperature epoxy yet, and would appreciate any
>suggestions. I am using a thermocouple amplifier, and a grounded
>thermocouple will not work well at all.
Last time I needed to instrument an engine, I used the AD594
style chips and grounded thermocouples. I used a separate
wire to crankcase to take the -VS, +Vs midpoint ground to the
crankcase. Common mode on the chips is more than capable
of working this way as long as you strap the signal ground
to the engine.
When you use grounded thermocouples, there are no concerns about
any common-mode noises (or differential for that matter,
t/c's are VERY low impedance sources) . . . so concerns
about proximity to other wires including spark plug wires
is nil. The hard part is arranging for the crankcase ground
reference. For a permanently installed instrumentation
system, you might have to figure out a way to "float" the
T/C signal conditioners . . . or simply use crankcase for
ALL instrument system grounds.
If you must insulate the T/C, I think I'd dip them in a
high-temp epoxy like JB Weld. Put a couple of thin coats
on each T/C before using JB weld to cement it into the
barrel of the terminal. See:
http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
This is pretty amazing stuff . . . in spite of it's
metal bearing properties, it's still and insulator
and rated for up to 500F.
Now, if you float the T/C's at the engine, I recommend
you tie a pair of 100 ohm resistors from each leg of
the amplifier chip to signal ground. This gives you a very low
common mode impedance to signal ground and has no effect on
accuracy of measurements over the short distances encountered
in small aircraft.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>The problem of the ELT anntenna in a wood and fabric plane, or a composite
>one, is discussed in Jim Weir's RST anntenna book. He suggests two
>dipoles, driven by the same coax, and that is what I plan to do. The
>ground plane is best suited for an aluminum plane. The configuration
>looks like the letter X with one pair of legs about 1/3 of the other. I
>don't recall the exact dimenions, something on the order of 7 inches and
>21 inches. Jim Weir suggests copper tape, but I prefer 0.032 or 0.016
>thick brass as being much easier to handle and solder. This is available
>in the hardware store in widths of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch. Best to
>tune this with an antenna analyser, of course.
>
>Jim Foerster, J400, wiring
That would work too. Thanks for tossing that into the pile!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
>
>
>I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that
>you contact Icom US and ask for a copy. I suspect they will know who you
>are and of your influence in our movement. If not, they would be well
>advised to find out!
>
>I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.
Take a peek at the dimming input. Can you confirm that it
simply drive panel lamps? Also, does it call out normal
input current to this pin?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Panel lighting questions |
Trying to resolve some nagging instrument lighting control issues here:
1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type). The
MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to the
INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to
+12 volts). Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire to
the input side of the dimmer control? Or can I connect it to the OUTPUT
side of a B&C solid state dimmer? The connection drawing also shows
separate power and ground connections to the indicator so I'm not sure if
the dimming action needs a variable resistance to ground or a variable input
voltage!? Also...anyone know how much current these draw at full intensity?
2)Mid Content Instruments MD200-306 VOR/ILS indicator internal light
dimming. Thanks for giving me the scoop on the connections here. NOW.....I
need to know how much current the internal lighting needs at maximum
brightness. Anybody know the answer to this one? Can't seem to locate an
answer in the manual I have. I need to know this so I can determine the
current capacity of the dimming control circuit.
3) Electronic International FL-2CA fuel gauge (capacitive fuel sensing with
display of 2 tanks at once) has both LEDs (which form an analog bar graph to
show fuel levels in both tanks simultaneously) and an LCD digital readout
(which can be switched between each tank to give a digital indication of
fuel remaining). The instructions show a connection to the dimming control
that allows varying the intensity of the LED bar graph lights. The LCD
backlight shows only a +12 volt connection with no dimming capability. For
those of you that have one of these gauges, could a dimmer be connected to
the LCD backlight 12 volt input to provide a dimming of the LCD backlight?
Is dimming the LCD backlight worth-wile or even needed at all? Or..have you
just connect the +12 volts and lived with the LCD backlight being on all the
time? Also for the LED bar graphs that are dimmable...does anyone know if
that takes a variable voltage input (ala B&C dimmer controller)or do I need
a variable resistance to ground?
4)For dimming control on the EZ Pilot and AFS AOA indicators, a momentary
push button switch is used that temporarily grounds one pin on the
connector. Is there a way to control these two instruments with an
potentiometer style instrument panel dimmer control or do we have to use the
buttons? Is such precise dimming control of these instruments worth-wile or
even needed at all?
5)Non related to panel lights but related to Lightspeed Plasma II+
electronic ignition. I got this one because it uses the aircraft style key
switch to turn it on and off. I didn't find any key switch depicted or
specified in the manual. I'm using the STD aircraft A510 key switch that
grounds the P leads to shutoff the mags (I have one mag on the left side).
Is this the correct switch or do I need a car style that makes a connection
to enable the electronic ignition? I would also like to install an
annunciator light that will turn on when I have the ignition turned on at
the key switch and turn off when the key is off...anyone done this or know
how to accomplish it? Thanks much.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Autocad-21 drawings so far
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List |
Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Good Afternoon Brian,
>
>
> That handheld satellite phone sounds interesting. Would you be able to
> expand on the availability and the costs involved in such a unit?
Well, you can do a search with Google to find sources. I just entered
"satellite phone" as my search string and came up with the information
you are seeking.
The two system with which I am familiar are Iridium and Globalstar. The
seem quite pricey when compared to cellular/PCS service here in the US
but the key is that they work just about anywhere in the world (Iridium)
with no roaming charges. OTOH they cost like paying roaming charges for
normal service. Expect to pay about $1(US) per minute for air time.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mchristian(at)canetics.com |
I have the TCM IO240-B3B in my Shekari. I have tried three fuel pumps and finally
am ending up with the facet 40107. The reason I have tried three pumps was
due to lack of sufficient information regarding the Fuel Injection sytem design
and fuel requirements of the engine. I learned by trial and error with a little
help: an electric pump putting out 3psi and 30gph wouldn't make any pressure
at the fuel distributor (too much pressure loss in the system). I then
tried a FI pump putting out 45psi and 45gph (thinking I could possible regulate
it down); this overpowered my gascolator which had to be replaced. Too much
pressure and flow caused priming issues and would result in difficulty running
the engine on the pump due to overrich conditions - based on the metering.
This could have been rectified with a bypass type regulator, but I didn't want
to add complexity to the fuel system. I ended up checking all facet pump types
and settled on the 40107 because: no check or anti
-siphon valves, 7-10psi and 30gph. I prime for three second at 3psi showing on
the fuel distributor. The engine starts right up. Not sure how it works at
keeping the engine running (I suspect insufficient pressure).
I think the reason Diamond went to the Dukes was because there were some early
issues with mechnaical fuel pumps on these engines. They had a priming solution
with teh Facets but no backup for sustaining flight. They found a solution
in the Dukes that can perform both.
Reagrds,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
That peek required a magnifying glass Bob, plus a bright light and a glass
of scotch.
The dimming circuit doesn't rate a mention in the specifications at all,
beyond a "+14v (input)" description in section 5-2 when describing the
Molex connector pins.
According to the schematic, the input flows through an LC filter, the coil
value unspecified but described as EXC-ELDR25C and is a component used in
several other parts of the schematic; the capacitor is 0.0047 uF. The input
is picked off at the L and C junction. Test voltages at that point are
called out as 13.5V both in Tx and Rx. It then leads to 2 "lamps" on the
Main Unit pcb, drawn as incandescent bulbs but described in the parts list
as LEDs, via an 8.2 ohm resistor. Those 2 are wired in parallel between the
tail of that resistor and ground. They backlight the front panel push
switches. Test voltages at the junction of the tail of the 8.2 ohm res and
the paralleled leds is 12.5V, both in Rx and Tx.
A branch before the 8.2 ohm resistor also feeds a further 6 "lamps", again
drawn as incandescent lamps but again described in the parts list as LEDs,
via an 18 ohm resistor. These 6 backlight the LCD display panel, wired 3 in
series, the 2 series networks then wired in parallel between the tail of the
18 ohm Res. and ground. These obviously backlight the LCD display on the
Front Unit. Test voltages at the junction of the led networks and the 18ohm
are called out as 10.0V on both transmit and receive..
Nothing furter mentioned anywhere but I hope this little helps. It seems to
me to be a fairly straightforward linear circuit, lending itself readily to
dimming by varying the input voltage below the 13.8 volt rail?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest
>>that
>>you contact Icom US and ask for a copy. I suspect they will know who you
>>are and of your influence in our movement. If not, they would be well
>>advised to find out!
>>
>>I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.
>
> Take a peek at the dimming input. Can you confirm that it
> simply drive panel lamps? Also, does it call out normal
> input current to this pin?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Yesterday morning on the way to church I noticed the alternator idiot light
come on. A quick check of the volt meter indicated 18 volts. I was driving
my son's 1990 Ford F-150 with an IR alternator. It took me about thirty
seconds to figure out what to do. There was not enough time left before
church to make a forced landing so I kept flying. I started turning on
anything electrical to absorb the extra electrons that were smashing the
battery. When I remembered the off road driving lights my son recently
installed and turned them on I was down to 13 volts. The voltage would
varry with RPM and as long as I kept everything on and the RPM below 1500 I
could keep the voltage under 14 volts. As the truck accelerated away from a
stop and the transmission was in lower gears the idiot light would come on
each time the voltage was above 16 volts which happened around 2000 RPM.
Once in high gear the RPM would settle around 1200 and the voltage would be
around 13 volts.
In thirty years of driving I would guess that I have had five or six
alternator failures. This is the first time it has been a high voltage
failure. All of the other times it has been low output failures.
Conclusions:
1. some IR alternators out there will detect an overvoltage event (turn
on the idiot light) and yet do nothing about it (continue to produce 18
volts).
2. one event does not make conclusive scinece
3. a check list for OV events would have solved this problem quicker - I
need a plan for low frequency failures with simple solutions.
4. z-13 would have handled this problem in my airplane as the main
alternator would have tripped the OV module; the low voltage tone in my
earphones would alert me to turn on the standby alternator and flight would
have continued to destination.
5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4 is worth the risk of
starting another IR alternator e-mail flood.
6. I'm glad I removed the IR regulator from my plane's alternator and
replaced it with an external unit and OV module.
Just remember, everything I say could be wrong - or right?
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR2 N52BL
91% done only 63% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lighting questions |
Dean wrote:
> Trying to resolve some nagging instrument lighting control issues here:
>
> 3) Electronic International FL-2CA fuel gauge (capacitive fuel sensing
> with
> display of 2 tanks at once) has both LEDs (which form an analog bar graph
> to
> show fuel levels in both tanks simultaneously) and an LCD digital readout
> (which can be switched between each tank to give a digital indication of
> fuel remaining). The instructions show a connection to the dimming
> control
> that allows varying the intensity of the LED bar graph lights. The LCD
> backlight shows only a +12 volt connection with no dimming capability.
> For
> those of you that have one of these gauges, could a dimmer be connected to
> the LCD backlight 12 volt input to provide a dimming of the LCD backlight?
> Is dimming the LCD backlight worth-wile or even needed at all? Or..have
> you
> just connect the +12 volts and lived with the LCD backlight being on all
> the
> time? Also for the LED bar graphs that are dimmable...does anyone know if
> that takes a variable voltage input (ala B&C dimmer controller)or do I
> need
> a variable resistance to ground?
Dean,
I can't help with the other issues, but the EI gage, I can. The LEDs are
dimmed with 12 vdc applied at the specified pin (unless they have changed
something) and at max brightness with no voltage. If you don't connect the
backlight to keep it on all the time, you will wish you did.
Sam Chambers
Long-EZ N775AM
Glasgow, KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
>
>Yesterday morning on the way to church I noticed the alternator idiot light
>come on. A quick check of the volt meter indicated 18 volts. I was driving
>my son's 1990 Ford F-150 with an IR alternator. It took me about thirty
>seconds to figure out what to do. There was not enough time left before
>church to make a forced landing so I kept flying. I started turning on
>anything electrical to absorb the extra electrons that were smashing the
>battery. When I remembered the off road driving lights my son recently
>installed and turned them on I was down to 13 volts. The voltage would
>varry with RPM and as long as I kept everything on and the RPM below 1500 I
>could keep the voltage under 14 volts. As the truck accelerated away from a
>stop and the transmission was in lower gears the idiot light would come on
>each time the voltage was above 16 volts which happened around 2000 RPM.
>Once in high gear the RPM would settle around 1200 and the voltage would be
>around 13 volts.
>
>In thirty years of driving I would guess that I have had five or six
>alternator failures. This is the first time it has been a high voltage
>failure. All of the other times it has been low output failures.
>
>Conclusions:
> 1. some IR alternators out there will detect an overvoltage event (turn
>on the idiot light) and yet do nothing about it (continue to produce 18
>volts).
> 2. one event does not make conclusive scinece
> 3. a check list for OV events would have solved this problem quicker - I
>need a plan for low frequency failures with simple solutions.
> 4. z-13 would have handled this problem in my airplane as the main
>alternator would have tripped the OV module; the low voltage tone in my
>earphones would alert me to turn on the standby alternator and flight would
>have continued to destination.
> 5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4 is worth the risk of
>starting another IR alternator e-mail flood.
> 6. I'm glad I removed the IR regulator from my plane's alternator and
>replaced it with an external unit and OV module.
>
>Just remember, everything I say could be wrong - or right?
The things you've offered are reasonable deductions based on
irrefutable observation and an understanding of the simple ideas
upon which the failed system functions. Using these tools, the
probability of having good ideas to offer is quite high. I can
find no faults in your narration.
The most profound observation I would offer is that because of
your willingness to learn, understand, observe, react and
craft a Plan-B on the fly (load it up and keep rpm low) is
gratifying to me. As engineer I KNOW that ALL alternator/regulator
combinations have operating/failure modes wherein there is benefit
for crafting the automatic (or at least a rapid-response manual)
control philosophy.
The difficult task is as teacher to share that knowledge in ways
that impart understanding. If what you've shared with us today
is based at least in part on understanding you've acquired here
on the List, then you've made my day sir. Know that there are
ways to add positive, low stress control to an IR alternator and the
hardware for doing that will be available in due course. Thank
you for sharing your contribution with us.
I'm off to class today. RAC offered me a short course (35 hours)
from KU on flight testing. I'm sure that most of the course
materials have to do with the investigation of an airplane's
aerodynamics and structural integrity which is way out of my
field of expertise. But the most successful test programs
are those which are well instrumented and supported by tools for
evaluating data. You ought to see how Eclipse has conducted
their flight tests! I'm looking forward to a week of immersion
in, as #5 would say, "input". This is going to be a good week.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Panel lighting questions |
You posted:
"1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type).
The
MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to the
INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to
+12 volts). Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire to
the input side of the dimmer control? Or can I connect it to the OUTPUT
side of a B&C solid state dimmer? The connection drawing also shows
separate power and ground connections to the indicator so I'm not sure if
the dimming action needs a variable resistance to ground or a variable input
voltage!? Also...anyone know how much current these draw at full
intensity?"
The Ray Allen indicators do not have "variable" lighting; they simply have a
full intensity state and a dimmed state. Applying a voltage to the white
wire causes the LED's to dim; removing that voltage causes them to operate
with full intensity.
You would not want to put them on the "output" side of a dimmer.
The rationale for connecting the white wire to the "input" side of the
dimmer is that you would normally not have a voltage there unless the panel
lights were turned on, either via the NAV light switch or a separate PANEL
light switch.
So, with the panel lights OFF, no voltage would be applied to either the
"input" side of the dimmer switch, nor to the white wire connected there,
and the LED's would operate with full brightness. Turning the panel lights
ON would apply a voltage to the "input" side of the dimmer switch, and to
the white wire connected there, which would dim the LED's.
Hope this is helpful...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel lighting questions
Trying to resolve some nagging instrument lighting control issues here:
1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type). The
MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to the
INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to
+12 volts). Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire to
the input side of the dimmer control? Or can I connect it to the OUTPUT
side of a B&C solid state dimmer? The connection drawing also shows
separate power and ground connections to the indicator so I'm not sure if
the dimming action needs a variable resistance to ground or a variable input
voltage!? Also...anyone know how much current these draw at full intensity?
2)Mid Content Instruments MD200-306 VOR/ILS indicator internal light
dimming. Thanks for giving me the scoop on the connections here. NOW.....I
need to know how much current the internal lighting needs at maximum
brightness. Anybody know the answer to this one? Can't seem to locate an
answer in the manual I have. I need to know this so I can determine the
current capacity of the dimming control circuit.
3) Electronic International FL-2CA fuel gauge (capacitive fuel sensing with
display of 2 tanks at once) has both LEDs (which form an analog bar graph to
show fuel levels in both tanks simultaneously) and an LCD digital readout
(which can be switched between each tank to give a digital indication of
fuel remaining). The instructions show a connection to the dimming control
that allows varying the intensity of the LED bar graph lights. The LCD
backlight shows only a +12 volt connection with no dimming capability. For
those of you that have one of these gauges, could a dimmer be connected to
the LCD backlight 12 volt input to provide a dimming of the LCD backlight?
Is dimming the LCD backlight worth-wile or even needed at all? Or..have you
just connect the +12 volts and lived with the LCD backlight being on all the
time? Also for the LED bar graphs that are dimmable...does anyone know if
that takes a variable voltage input (ala B&C dimmer controller)or do I need
a variable resistance to ground?
4)For dimming control on the EZ Pilot and AFS AOA indicators, a momentary
push button switch is used that temporarily grounds one pin on the
connector. Is there a way to control these two instruments with an
potentiometer style instrument panel dimmer control or do we have to use the
buttons? Is such precise dimming control of these instruments worth-wile or
even needed at all?
5)Non related to panel lights but related to Lightspeed Plasma II+
electronic ignition. I got this one because it uses the aircraft style key
switch to turn it on and off. I didn't find any key switch depicted or
specified in the manual. I'm using the STD aircraft A510 key switch that
grounds the P leads to shutoff the mags (I have one mag on the left side).
Is this the correct switch or do I need a car style that makes a connection
to enable the electronic ignition? I would also like to install an
annunciator light that will turn on when I have the ignition turned on at
the key switch and turn off when the key is off...anyone done this or know
how to accomplish it? Thanks much.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Autocad-21 drawings so far
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Mickey asked: [answers in [] brackets]
Was that the standard voltmeter that is installed in the car? [Ford Factory]
What is the scale of the gauge? [8 to 18 volts in 1 volt incriments]
What brand of IR alternator are we talking about? [Stock Ford]
> 5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4 is worth the risk of
> starting another IR alternator e-mail flood.
I'm not sure I agree with you! :-) [like I said, everything I said could
be wrong!]
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR2 N52BL
91% done only 63% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supplies was Wiring issues |
You might want to consult your Whelen manual regarding using this
power pack for 3 or 4 strobe heads. What is your power supply model?
Most Whelen and Nova power supplies only supply rated power to HALF
the number of heads. Most units only supply half power when using
more than half the maximum number of strobe heads. My Nova 904 can
run up to 6 heads. However, this means that each capacitor must power
2 heads rather than 1. This cuts the charging time (and therefore the
power output) for each head, in half.
This could become an issue when your DAR makes his/her inspection.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Hello
> Redoing my lower dash panel.
>
> 1 I have a Whalen strobe powerpack that can handle either 1,2,3
> or 4 strobes. It is 14v 7a unit . I have 2 wingtip , 1 tail and 1
> red strobe/ beacon.
>
> My question is if I could use a [ 2-10 ?] switch to control this
> strobe power unit and have the red beacon turn on the middle switch
> position and then add the other 3 strobes at the top switch position?
> If that would not do it is there some other arrangment to do it?
>
>2 I have the B + C instrament lighting dimmer setup .
> I have Inst. lights, couple of post lights Radio lights ,Lower
> dash panel lights , and 2 over the shoulder lights. I have a cabin
> ovhd light as well.
>
> I am using Fiber light units on most instraments and on the lower
> dash. The lower dash units are a long fiber optic strip that has
> lettering on them to label the lower dash panel items.
>
> How should I handle this whole setup?
> I only have one dimmer pot .
>Do I need some type of rotary switch?
> Regular switches or wire the ovhd to a seperate switch? ? wire
> them all together?
>
>Any ideas would be helfull
>
> thanks l
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11546#11546
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lighting questions |
| From: | Greg Campbell <gregcampbellusa(at)gmail.com> |
I'll take a shot at Question #1)
The white wire is a "logic input" to control a dimmer built into the LED
trim indicator.
The two "logic states" are "FULL Brightness" and "HALF Brightness",
controlled by
the voltage supplied to the white wire as a "command" to the built in
dimmer.
If you don't apply any voltage to the white wire, (or if you don't bother
connecting it),
then you are commanding FULL Brightness whenever the trim display is powered
up.
If you apply anything from 12v down to some "threshold voltage"
(which can be determined), then the display will be at "HALF Brightness".
If you apply some voltage, but less than the "threshold voltage",
then the display will again be at "FULL brightness".
(Essentially treating it the same as applying no voltage to it.)
So the simplest thing is to hook the white wire up to the INPUT side of your
panel lights
dimmer. If you've turned on the panel lights - then the trim display will
sense 12v on
the white wire and go to HALF Brightness and stay there regardless of how
low
you turn the panel lights.
However, if you hook the white wire to the OUTPUT side of your dimmer - then
the
trim indicator will probably go to HALF Brightness when you turn your panel
lights ON,
but it may go back up to FULL Brightness when you turn your panel lights way
down low.
This would happen if the OUTPUT voltage from the panel dimmer is below the
switching threshold of the trim indicator's "dimmer input" circuit.
It won't hurt anything to try - it's just a logic input. You might be able
to "get away"
with hooking the white wire up to the OUTPUT side. It will add a miniscule
load
to the dimmer's load - and worst case you'll see your trim indicators get
brighter
when you turn the panel dimmer all the way down low.
Maybe you see that as a feature, not a bug ;-)
A reminder that you have the panel lights turned down low.
A FEW OTHER NOTES:
The MAC / Ray Allen trim indicators rely on a simple 5K potentiometer inside
the servo.
The three colored wires coming out of a Servo are connected to the three
terminals of the pot.
You can figure out which is which by using an Ohmmeter across them. Two
wires
will have a 5,000 ohm resistance regardless of the position of the servo.
The other wire
is the "tap" - and the readings from the "tap" to each "end" should add up
to 5,000 Ohms.
In normal use, the indicator applies some "reference voltage" (probably 5v
regulated)
across the ends of the potentiometer, and the tap returns a voltage
proportional to the servo's position.
The 5K potentiometer inside the servo will handle 12v applied across the
"ends" of the pot
regardless of the position of the servo arm. However, if you have the servo
arm at one
end or the other - the resistance from the tap to that end of the
potentiometer can be fairly low.
Inadvertently applying 12v across the tap and that end could smoke the
potentiometer
inside the servo. I can't think of any good reason to be applying 12v to
the servo
potentiometer lines - but it's something to keep in mind.
Similarly, you shouldn't apply 12v to the Trim Indicator wires (other than
the red & black).
To do so could smoke a diode inside the RP2 indicator, or possibly damage
the RP3 indicator.
See this link for more details:
www.RayAllenCompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf
Another comment is the availability of the "needle type" RP2 trim
indicators.
See: www.AircraftSpruce.com/catalog/elpages/racindicators.php
I find the green LED from the (RP3) trim indicator gives some strong
reflections in the cockpit
that turn up on the windshield at night. And sometimes I have to shade the
LED indicator
with my hand to read it in direct sunlight. (Mine is a few years old
though.)
So. you might want to consider the analog RP2 meter version of the trim
indicator.
I'm not sure if it has a built in light - but for $75 I'm hoping it does.
Hope it helps,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List |
D...
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> brian-yak(at)lloyd.com writes:
>
> The two systems with which I am familiar are Iridium and Globalstar. They
> seem quite pricey when compared to cellular/PCS service here in the US
> but the key is that they work just about anywhere in the world (Iridium)
> with no roaming charges. OTOH they cost like paying roaming charges for
> normal service. Expect to pay about $1(US) per minute for air time.
>
>
>
> Thank You Brian. That certainly has possibilities.
If you need telephone service while flying your airplane, this is
certainly the way to go. Most of the expensive yachts have these. These
phones also offer low-speed (9600 bps) access to the Internet.
For those of you interested in having someone know where you are should
you go down and not have to pay an arm and a leg for it, I would suggest
you consider getting your amateur radio license and put your airplane
into the APRS network. APRS works by broadcasting your GPS-derived
position to the rest of the APRS network on the ham bands. (This is
similar in approach to ADS-B that the FAA is rolling out.) There are
lots of people out there listening and an airplane has a great deal of
advantage in that its VHF transmitter will cover a lot of territory.
Odds are high that another ham on the network will hear and forward your
position information.
BTW, they also use APRS on the HF (short-wave) bands which give
world-wide coverage.
(My call is WB6RQN - extra)
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List |
D...
Dave Morris "BigD" AeroElectric-List D... wrote:
>
> I have some shares of Iridium if someone wants to buy them **cheap** I'll
> sell them for what I paid for them (smirk smirk) :)
Yeah, it was a financial bust for the original investors. The technology
was good but no one bothered to wonder if, when everyone else was paying
25 cents per minute for cell service, would anyone bother to pay a
dollar a minute (or more). Iridium went belly up but all those beautiful
satellites were still up there. They were even going to de-orbit the
birds! Fortunately someone bought them at fire-sale prices and the
network remained. You can run the network pretty cheaply if you don't
have to pay to build and launch the satellites.
Of course this begs the question: is it profitable to replace satellites
that die? My guess is that they probably can keep it going but I haven't
looked at their books.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lighting questions |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Dean -
Answer is yes. That is the way they dim the led's in that indicator. If
you have the input to your dimmer switched, you can take the dimmer input
to the same pole on the switch or from its connection to the input side of
the dimmer.
John
wrote:
> 1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type).
> The
> MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to
> the
> INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to
> +12 volts). Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire
> to
> the input side of the dimmer control?
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lighting questions |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Dean -
We have the same instrument and did not bother with the current flow. It
is very low and I'm guessing that it is no more than 0.2 amps.
Am sending you two .pdf pages to your email address from my wirebook
showing the trim setup and the MD200 feed.
John
wrote:
> 2)Mid Content Instruments MD200-306 VOR/ILS indicator internal light
> dimming. Thanks for giving me the scoop on the connections here.
> NOW.....I
> need to know how much current the internal lighting needs at maximum
> brightness. Anybody know the answer to this one? Can't seem to locate an
> answer in the manual I have. I need to know this so I can determine the
> current capacity of the dimming control circuit.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mchristian(at)canetics.com |
I just finished the installation of the ACS FlyCam in my taildragger Shekari.
I am putting the low light capable Sony CCD in the cowl pointing level in taxi
config. The dimmable 6.8" TFT LCD will allow me to get a better view of what
I can't see due to the cowl at night and day. In flight, the camera will be
pointing down at an angle to expose the area I can not see due to the cowl.
I am sanding and filling prior to paint, so I can't say yet how it will work out.
Camera tests in low level light though show great resolution.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (errata of first draft wiring |
diagrams)
Basic ICOM A200 wiring (corrected). Forgot a jumper in the first draft. Also shown
is my interpretation of how to wire the "HOT" mic intercom built into the
ICOM. I have heard from two folks that used the ICOM internal intercom. It works
but is low on volumn, and it was suggest even a cheap Flightcom or similar
low cost VOX intercom would be better.
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/8466/icoma2004lh.jpg
Below is my two ICOM's with no audio panel idea's. I show three ways to wire.
Disclaimer is I never wired this up before, but think it will work fine. I have
great memories of my OLD Piper Apache with two King KX170's that did not have
an audio panel. It just had a switch to select the transmitter. The ADF was
wired thru one of the KX170s aux input ( I think) and individual volumn control
was used to listen or silence the radio/nav of choice.
The mixer is a common electronic kit that takes 3 or 4 inputs and mixes it thru
a preamp to one output.
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3088/icomblock5xg.jpg
George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Anyone have pictures of what a Main Bus and E-Bus can look like?
I know what they look like on a schematic, and what B+C sells as Bus Bar
Stock which is .025" x .5" x 12" brass.
I can see if you have breakers in a row you can screw to the brass.
What if you have switches, fuses and breakers? Can you solder Faston tabs
like B+Cs Tab ground kit?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Single point ground? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hmmmm, this bounced back to me??
Have a question on B+C 24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit:
Is it desirable to put a phospher bronze internal star washer under head
of bolt and ground bus, and under nut and other ground bus, and under nut
that captures ground lugs?
Or??
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
The busses really are the fuse boxes...At least mine are.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Main and E-Bus
Anyone have pictures of what a Main Bus and E-Bus can look like?
I know what they look like on a schematic, and what B+C sells as Bus Bar
Stock which is .025" x .5" x 12" brass.
I can see if you have breakers in a row you can screw to the brass.
What if you have switches, fuses and breakers? Can you solder Faston
tabs like B+Cs Tab ground kit?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 02/12/06 |
"You make this implicit assumption on which to base an argument to change
the FAA's mind: "I am conscious and able to turn on my blackberry or cell
phone, and to connect and to describe my location ... ". If you are not
capable of the above and need rescue to stay alive, or your family needs
your body for closure, the whole process needs to be automatic and more
accurate. That's the answer the FAA will send back. Now, how to do what
they want in a way that will be far more reliable than the method mandated
now, and will not break our banks, is the problem at hand. There is a much
better solution, but it costs a lot more and so far, a lot of folks have
rejected it because of cost.
John Schroeder"
All good points, I think. I was not aware cell towers have to be within 3
miles for cell phones to work. How do they do it in Cambodia? I was there
a couple of years ago and reception was outstanding---surprised me no end.
Never saw a cell tower anywhere.
The problem with ELT's (assuming the stats given are right) is that they
aren't very reliable either (12% of the time). If you are incapacitated you
may be out of luck either way. Satcom is nice but expensive. Oh well.
406, here I come, I guess.
Regards,
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joelrhaynes(at)aol.com |
Bob,
Having just recently wired my ICOM A200, I recognized that you reversed pins 9
and J on your schematic below. Pin 9 is the PTT and pin J is mic input HI.
A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.
The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.
I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be
doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
posted at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf
If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not
answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,
I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd
intended
to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page
2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be
fixed in several places.
Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with
us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead
of building airplanes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: subject line |
I'm not trying to play list cop, but it is helpful to use a subject line
in posts.
With viruses running rampant, I'm prone to delete anything I don't
recognize & I'd bet others are, as well.
thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
| Subject: | ANR Headset Connector |
Can anyone steer me to the proper connector to accept a
ship-powered ANR headset ?? If I go this route (and I
prefer not having a battery flopping around the cockpit)
are there options for me to adapt to standard dual-plug
headsets also ??
thanks in advance,
--
Larry E. James Harmon Rocket II
Seattle, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | ANR Headset Connector |
Bose sells them ($31.95 IIRC), and I believe Lightspeed uses the same
connector...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
E. James
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANR Headset Connector
Can anyone steer me to the proper connector to accept a
ship-powered ANR headset ?? If I go this route (and I
prefer not having a battery flopping around the cockpit)
are there options for me to adapt to standard dual-plug
headsets also ??
thanks in advance,
--
Larry E. James Harmon Rocket II
Seattle, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plane-Power alternators |
At the risk of starting another disputatious thread about alternators, is
there any field experience with Plane-Power? They appear to have addressed
some of the concerns that have been expressed over the last months and they
are now selling into the experimental market. According to a spokesperson
their units have improved cooling fans, internal regulation with external
control via the field circuit, overvoltage protection mounted on the
alternator, balanced rotating parts, machined drive pulley, low voltage
warning light and all the parts needed to mount the system on a Lycoming
(for instance). Apparently the regulator is set to 14.3volts plus or minus.
I do not know who manufactures the basic unit. Does anyone out there know
these people or have operational experience with their equipment? They
apparently sell through distributors which include Aircraft Spruce and
Chief. Prices are not extremely low but are substantially lower than B&C's
60A with LR3. Comments please.
Thank you.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
> Bob,
>Having just recently wired my ICOM A200, I recognized that you reversed
>pins 9 and J on your schematic below. Pin 9 is the PTT and pin J is mic
>input HI.
>
Got it fixed. Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Main and E-Bus |
>
>Anyone have pictures of what a Main Bus and E-Bus can look like?
If you use breakers, then they look something like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Bus_Bar_Not_1.jpg
. . . except the breakers are more modern.
If you use fuse blocks, the bus bars are built into the
fuse block assembly . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/fuseblks.jpg
Nothing to build, just bolt it in and start wiring up.
>I know what they look like on a schematic, and what B+C sells as Bus Bar
>Stock which is .025" x .5" x 12" brass.
That works well for breakers . . .
>I can see if you have breakers in a row you can screw to the brass.
yup . . .
>What if you have switches, fuses and breakers? Can you solder Faston tabs
>like B+Cs Tab ground kit?
Perhaps you were unaware that the bus is built into the fuse
holders. Use the fuseblocks as supplied and your bus bars
are already done. They run right down the middle of the fuseblock
and you wire them with a wire to the fat screw at the end of the
fuseblock.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | ANR Headset Connector |
Spruce sell the bose one with a wiring bundle already attached for $30ish...
DC uses a different connector I believe, there is a 6 pin and an 8 pin
version..
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANR Headset Connector
-->
Bose sells them ($31.95 IIRC), and I believe Lightspeed uses the same
connector...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry E.
James
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANR Headset Connector
Can anyone steer me to the proper connector to accept a ship-powered ANR
headset ?? If I go this route (and I prefer not having a battery flopping
around the cockpit) are there options for me to adapt to standard dual-plug
headsets also ??
thanks in advance,
--
Larry E. James Harmon Rocket II
Seattle, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | STEVE MASSARI <smassari(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | ANL Current Limiter more than 6 inches from starter |
contactor
All of the Aeroelectric 'Z' diagrams show the ANL current limiter mounted within
6 inches of the starter contactor. I would like to mount mine on the right side
of the battery on a RV9. What wire size would you use ? I am using the B&C
base with a 60A fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | cell phone range to cell tower |
Lee Logan wrote:
> All good points, I think. I was not aware cell towers have to be within 3
> miles for cell phones to work. How do they do it in Cambodia? I was there
> a couple of years ago and reception was outstanding---surprised me no end.
> Never saw a cell tower anywhere.
You will have greater range under ideal line-of-sight conditions but
with the power and antenna limitations here in the US, you aren't likely
to get a whole lot more than that, I would say 10 mi tops. Throw in
trees and terrain and you may not even get 3 miles.
Point is, don't count on a cell phone if you are off the beaten path.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Odyssey % of charge |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
If the charging system is not working does anyone have an approximate % of
remaining capacity versus voltage for a Odyssey PC680 or similar?
What is a safe lower voltage limit one can discharge a PC680 to and not
cause permanent battery damage?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Odyssey % of charge |
>
> If the charging system is not working does anyone have an
> approximate % of remaining capacity versus voltage for a
> Odyssey PC680 or similar?
>
> What is a safe lower voltage limit one can discharge a PC680
> to and not cause permanent battery damage?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
Go to their website, there is a complete pdf for downloading.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 714 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Softcomm C300 ANR Headset |
Softcomm seems to have a new ANR headset concept avoiding the trouble with all
the cables dangling around in the cockpit with the C300 ANR. As far as I understand
it they use the bias voltage for the electret microphone for power recruitment
which is surely very elegant.
However I wonder whether that can be sufficient, as power requirements for active
compensation are not negligible in a noisy environment. Any differences in
intercoms behaviour with this respect? Anybody who has experiences (good or bad)?
Thanks in advance
Richard Hoffmann
MCR4S Germany
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Mr. Bob Lee
Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
think your volt meter is off and it was likely more
like 17 volts, but that is what the ND alternators
do. Their secondary voltage control limit is either
16v or 17v on some models. Not sure about a
Ford alternator, but all I-VR alternators (really the
only ones made now a day) use similar IC chip
control in the VR and OV limit of 17v max.
Even though you had an overvoltage you had some
control and never exceeded 18 volts (17 volts?).
Thanks for an excellent factual description with
out sensational emotional and prejudicial
comments. Yes an I-VR can have an OV but not the
wild runaway that gets spread around like brown
stinky stuff. Although OV is rare in the first place,
this is typical overvoltage when it does happen.
Bob and some dislike the I-VR because there is one
transistor that controls the field. If that transistor
failed (single point failure) it could in THEORY cause
a high uncontrolled OV condition. NO one has proved
this has EVER happened as they say. By prove I
mean took a claimed runaway VR and determined the
cause was this single point failure. Its RARE indeed.
In practice the field transistor is bullet proof.
Cooling air adds to the reliability of that or any transistor.
Don't install a I-VR like a E-VR they are differnt by design.
That is my only point I have tried to make in a
year of fighting the anecdotal comments Bob and
other's make. NO OFFENSE TO BOB. I agree the
E-VR has MORE control or should say more DIRECT
control of the fundamental thing that controls
output, the field wire. THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE.
(SEE I SAID IT, BUT THAT does not make I-VR bad.)
However let's be real. I-VR are super reliable as
is. Failures are rare and tend to be LOW voltage
or NO voltage events. When there is a spike above
the normal set voltage its a controllable event
by adding load.
Example in point: F150 Ford truck, IF YOU HAVE a
pull-able CB in your FORD truck for the alternator
output (b-lead), you would just pull the CB if the
voltage was too high. Done deal. No need for extra
protection or crow bars.
HOWEVER I KNOW BOB'S philosophy that he likes
automatic control. OK that is cool. However that
comes at the expense of weight, complexity and
potential nuisance trips that can damage a good
alternator.
BOB contradicts himself, saying don't use an I-VR at all?
OK great advice, but a problem?
NO ONE makes cheap off the shelf E-VR alternators?
Why spend++$600 for B&C or GUT a perfectly good I-VR?
Bottom line, Lee's alternator not only indicated
the OV failure, which shows the value of using the
warning light, the voltage never exceeded 18v (I
think you volt gauge is off by a volt). WHAT IS
WRONG WITH THAT? Most avionics can take anywhere
from 10-30 volts all day with out fail and even a
spike up to 60v for very short durations.
HERE HERE Mr. Lee!!!!!
Well done. I am putting you in my email post HALL
OF FAME. I agree with all you points except point
6, your conclusion, but than its not that point 6
is incorrect. I can't fault anything you said. I
just don't think its necessarily a needed.
Of your 6 points I summit the following comments:
1) The alternator defaults to 18v (17v?) by
design and typical. It is also NOT
indicative of the claim that the field has
gone crazy. There is a fault and it has lost
some control, but it is NOT out of control.
2) One event does not make a case, but your
experience is typical. In the rare cases of
OV (anything over 14.5v).
3) Check list are great
4) Z-13 would but so would reach over and
pulling a CB on the B-lead. I am not sure
turning the IGN "signal" to tell the VR to
go to sleep will work every time. Bob says
he does not recommend I-VR at all any more
any way, so if you are a disciple of his
doctrine the solution is obvious. I have no
issue with that.
5) I think it is worth the risk of good debate.
6) I am glad for you all the best. What ever
makes you sleep at night. By the way Ford
alternators have a bad service history
according to the NHTSA (Nits-a) (National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration). ND
alternators are as prolific and have a
spotless record in regards to consumer
complain, service bulletins and recalls.
My points are:
a) use the warning light; it is a fault light
not just a no charge light. If you don't use
the warning light, have something to
indicate a charge fault (hi/lo volts).
b) Do not turn the alternator on and off under
load.
c) Wire it (the ND alternator Van sells) just
like I show below. Which is a copy of how it
works in the Suzuki Samurai it was designed
for with one addition for aircraft use, the
50-60 amp pull-able CB in the panel.
d) If you want an I-VR and an OV relay and crow
bar, that is fine but you would be better
off going to an external VR if you can't
live with the I-VR as is, which is Bob Lee's
conclusion. I can't fault you for that. DO
what makes you happy.
http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altwiring5cm.jpg
A modified Toyota diagram.
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toyota7gf.jpg
Flame Suit on. BTW please actually read what I
wrote first. I said external VR's are better in
that you have direct access to the field wire. I
also said I agree with Bob N and Bob L and
understand the desire to either use an OV
module/relay on an I-VR or use an E-VR.
I AGREE. Back off.
The only point I need to make is OV events with I-
VR's are rare, which Bob Lee made for me. I also need
to point out the SO CALLED overvoltage event was a
NON EVENT. In a car or plane it does little to
nothing since most devices can live on 17volts (or
even 18 volts as Bob Lee said, which I think is a
little high). AT LEAST this event was well
document and valid case to evaluate and its impact
on aircraft operations. Obviously Mr. Lee in his
F150 could just pull over and CRASH LAND on the
shoulder of the road. In a plane pulling over and
parking on a cloud is not possible. However that
is what a battery is for.
Sincerely George Nomex flame suit on.
From: <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
Subject: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator
Message posted by:
Yesterday morning on the way to church I noticed
the alternator idiot Light come on. A quick check
of the volt meter indicated 18 volts. I was
Driving my son's 1990 Ford F-150 with an IR
alternator. It took me about Thirty seconds to
figure out what to do. There was not enough time
left Before church to make a forced landing so I
kept flying. I started turning on anything
electrical to absorb the extra electrons that were
smashing the battery. When I remembered the off
road driving lights my son recently installed and
turned them on I was down to 13 volts. The
voltage would vary with RPM and as long as I kept
everything on and the RPM below 1500 I could keep
the voltage under 14 volts. As the truck
accelerated away from a stop and the transmission
was in lower gears the idiot light would come on
each time the voltage was above 16 volts which
happened around 2000 RPM. Once in high gear the
RPM would settle around 1200 and the voltage would
be around 13 volts.
In thirty years of driving I would guess that I
have had five or six alternator failures. This is
the first time it has been a high voltage failure.
All of the other times it has been low output
failures.
Conclusions:
1. some IR alternators out there will detect an
overvoltage event (turn on the idiot light) and
yet do nothing about it (continue to produce 18
volts).
2. one event does not make conclusive science
3. a check list for OV events would have solved
this problem quicker. I need a plan for low
frequency failures with simple solutions.
4. z-13 would have handled this problem in my
airplane as the main alternator would have tripped
the OV module; the low voltage tone in my
earphones would alert me to turn on the standby
alternator and flight would have continued to
destination.
5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4
is worth the risk of starting another IR
alternator e-mail flood.
6. I'm glad I removed the IR regulator from my
plane's alternator And replaced it with an
external unit and OV module.
Just remember, everything I say could be wrong - or right?
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR2 N52BL
91% done only 63% to go!
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hello George,
A couple of questions:
What causes the failed IR overvoltage event to max-out at 17V (or 18V)?
Is it loads and battery? Or is the field current limited somehow. It
seems that we discussed that a short between Vb and the field (through the
main transistor, or otherwise) would cause cause an OV event similar to
what was described - open loop output, controlled by RPM, and load - the
battery being the primary load. Mr Lee didn't mention whether he
experimented with eliminating loads, and revving the engine to a higher
RPM (I wouldn't have tried that on my daily driver). But it seems that
you are suggesting that even had he done that, 17V would have been the
peak voltage seen on the bus. Am I reading you right?
How long can we predict that we can leave a typical 17Ah AGM battery
connected to 17V, and have it act as a system filter? Is there any risk
of fire associated with long term (admittedly, unquantified) operation in
such a manner? Asked another way, what's the charge rate on the battery
when pumped to 17V? I suppose your suggestion to include a b-lead
disconnect of some sort (breaker, in your case) addresses this issue. As
long as the pilot registers that the bus voltage is significantly out of
limits.
Without intending to put words into Bob (Nuckolls)'s mouth, I believe he
has said that he can't recommend IR alternators in the context of
designing an electrical system with certificated-like behavior. Not an
all-out condemnation of these alternators as a whole. I believe he has,
on several occasions, recognized the advantages of these low-cost devices.
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Mr. Bob Lee
>
> Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
> that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
> think your volt meter is off and it was likely more
> like 17 volts, but that is what the ND alternators
> do. Their secondary voltage control limit is either
> 16v or 17v on some models. Not sure about a
> Ford alternator, but all I-VR alternators (really the
> only ones made now a day) use similar IC chip
> control in the VR and OV limit of 17v max.
>
> Even though you had an overvoltage you had some
> control and never exceeded 18 volts (17 volts?).
>
> Thanks for an excellent factual description with
> out sensational emotional and prejudicial
> comments. Yes an I-VR can have an OV but not the
> wild runaway that gets spread around like brown
> stinky stuff. Although OV is rare in the first place,
> this is typical overvoltage when it does happen.
>
> Bob and some dislike the I-VR because there is one
> transistor that controls the field. If that transistor
> failed (single point failure) it could in THEORY cause
> a high uncontrolled OV condition. NO one has proved
> this has EVER happened as they say. By prove I
> mean took a claimed runaway VR and determined the
> cause was this single point failure. Its RARE indeed.
>
> In practice the field transistor is bullet proof.
>
> Cooling air adds to the reliability of that or any transistor.
>
> Don't install a I-VR like a E-VR they are differnt by design.
>
> That is my only point I have tried to make in a
> year of fighting the anecdotal comments Bob and
> other's make. NO OFFENSE TO BOB. I agree the
> E-VR has MORE control or should say more DIRECT
> control of the fundamental thing that controls
> output, the field wire. THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE.
>
> (SEE I SAID IT, BUT THAT does not make I-VR bad.)
>
> However let's be real. I-VR are super reliable as
> is. Failures are rare and tend to be LOW voltage
> or NO voltage events. When there is a spike above
> the normal set voltage its a controllable event
> by adding load.
>
> Example in point: F150 Ford truck, IF YOU HAVE a
> pull-able CB in your FORD truck for the alternator
> output (b-lead), you would just pull the CB if the
> voltage was too high. Done deal. No need for extra
> protection or crow bars.
>
> HOWEVER I KNOW BOB'S philosophy that he likes
> automatic control. OK that is cool. However that
> comes at the expense of weight, complexity and
> potential nuisance trips that can damage a good
> alternator.
>
> BOB contradicts himself, saying don't use an I-VR at all?
>
> OK great advice, but a problem?
>
> NO ONE makes cheap off the shelf E-VR alternators?
>
> Why spend++$600 for B&C or GUT a perfectly good I-VR?
>
> Bottom line, Lee's alternator not only indicated
> the OV failure, which shows the value of using the
> warning light, the voltage never exceeded 18v (I
> think you volt gauge is off by a volt). WHAT IS
> WRONG WITH THAT? Most avionics can take anywhere
> from 10-30 volts all day with out fail and even a
> spike up to 60v for very short durations.
>
> HERE HERE Mr. Lee!!!!!
>
> Well done. I am putting you in my email post HALL
> OF FAME. I agree with all you points except point
> 6, your conclusion, but than its not that point 6
> is incorrect. I can't fault anything you said. I
> just don't think its necessarily a needed.
>
> Of your 6 points I summit the following comments:
>
> 1) The alternator defaults to 18v (17v?) by
> design and typical. It is also NOT
> indicative of the claim that the field has
> gone crazy. There is a fault and it has lost
> some control, but it is NOT out of control.
>
> 2) One event does not make a case, but your
> experience is typical. In the rare cases of
> OV (anything over 14.5v).
>
>
> 3) Check list are great
>
>
> 4) Z-13 would but so would reach over and
> pulling a CB on the B-lead. I am not sure
> turning the IGN "signal" to tell the VR to
> go to sleep will work every time. Bob says
> he does not recommend I-VR at all any more
> any way, so if you are a disciple of his
> doctrine the solution is obvious. I have no
> issue with that.
>
>
> 5) I think it is worth the risk of good debate.
>
>
> 6) I am glad for you all the best. What ever
> makes you sleep at night. By the way Ford
> alternators have a bad service history
> according to the NHTSA (Nits-a) (National
> Highway Traffic Safety Administration). ND
> alternators are as prolific and have a
> spotless record in regards to consumer
> complain, service bulletins and recalls.
>
>
> My points are:
>
>
> a) use the warning light; it is a fault light
> not just a no charge light. If you don't use
> the warning light, have something to
> indicate a charge fault (hi/lo volts).
>
>
> b) Do not turn the alternator on and off under
> load.
>
>
> c) Wire it (the ND alternator Van sells) just
> like I show below. Which is a copy of how it
> works in the Suzuki Samurai it was designed
> for with one addition for aircraft use, the
> 50-60 amp pull-able CB in the panel.
>
> d) If you want an I-VR and an OV relay and crow
> bar, that is fine but you would be better
> off going to an external VR if you can't
> live with the I-VR as is, which is Bob Lee's
> conclusion. I can't fault you for that. DO
> what makes you happy.
>
>
> http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altwiring5cm.jpg
>
> A modified Toyota diagram.
>
> http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toyota7gf.jpg
>
>
> Flame Suit on. BTW please actually read what I
> wrote first. I said external VR's are better in
> that you have direct access to the field wire. I
> also said I agree with Bob N and Bob L and
> understand the desire to either use an OV
> module/relay on an I-VR or use an E-VR.
>
> I AGREE. Back off.
>
> The only point I need to make is OV events with I-
> VR's are rare, which Bob Lee made for me. I also need
> to point out the SO CALLED overvoltage event was a
> NON EVENT. In a car or plane it does little to
> nothing since most devices can live on 17volts (or
> even 18 volts as Bob Lee said, which I think is a
> little high). AT LEAST this event was well
> document and valid case to evaluate and its impact
> on aircraft operations. Obviously Mr. Lee in his
> F150 could just pull over and CRASH LAND on the
> shoulder of the road. In a plane pulling over and
> parking on a cloud is not possible. However that
> is what a battery is for.
>
> Sincerely George Nomex flame suit on.
>
>
> From: <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
> Subject: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator
> Message posted by:
>
> Yesterday morning on the way to church I noticed
> the alternator idiot Light come on. A quick check
> of the volt meter indicated 18 volts. I was
> Driving my son's 1990 Ford F-150 with an IR
> alternator. It took me about Thirty seconds to
> figure out what to do. There was not enough time
> left Before church to make a forced landing so I
> kept flying. I started turning on anything
> electrical to absorb the extra electrons that were
> smashing the battery. When I remembered the off
> road driving lights my son recently installed and
> turned them on I was down to 13 volts. The
> voltage would vary with RPM and as long as I kept
> everything on and the RPM below 1500 I could keep
> the voltage under 14 volts. As the truck
> accelerated away from a stop and the transmission
> was in lower gears the idiot light would come on
> each time the voltage was above 16 volts which
> happened around 2000 RPM. Once in high gear the
> RPM would settle around 1200 and the voltage would
> be around 13 volts.
>
> In thirty years of driving I would guess that I
> have had five or six alternator failures. This is
> the first time it has been a high voltage failure.
> All of the other times it has been low output
> failures.
>
> Conclusions:
>
>
> 1. some IR alternators out there will detect an
> overvoltage event (turn on the idiot light) and
> yet do nothing about it (continue to produce 18
> volts).
>
> 2. one event does not make conclusive science
>
> 3. a check list for OV events would have solved
> this problem quicker. I need a plan for low
> frequency failures with simple solutions.
>
> 4. z-13 would have handled this problem in my
> airplane as the main alternator would have tripped
> the OV module; the low voltage tone in my
> earphones would alert me to turn on the standby
> alternator and flight would have continued to
> destination.
>
> 5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4
> is worth the risk of starting another IR
> alternator e-mail flood.
>
> 6. I'm glad I removed the IR regulator from my
> plane's alternator And replaced it with an
> external unit and OV module.
>
> Just remember, everything I say could be wrong - or right?
> Regards,
> Bob Lee
> KR2 N52BL
> 91% done only 63% to go!
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Brings words and photos together (easily) with
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy & Linda Nelson" <RLNelson-5(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supplies was Wiring issues |
Ok My power supply is Whelen A413a 7 amps Can use either 1,2,3,4 lights
are 25 +25 joules or 12 joules or 25 +12 any combination depending if
alternate or simultaneous. Any thoughts on the wiring? Or the dimmer
stuff? I would like to start wiring my panel but am waiting on these 2
issues. Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: Charlie Kuss
Date: 02/13/06 08:05:16
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe power supplies was Wiring issues
net>
You might want to consult your Whelen manual regarding using this
power pack for 3 or 4 strobe heads. What is your power supply model?
Most Whelen and Nova power supplies only supply rated power to HALF
the number of heads. Most units only supply half power when using
more than half the maximum number of strobe heads. My Nova 904 can
run up to 6 heads. However, this means that each capacitor must power
2 heads rather than 1. This cuts the charging time (and therefore the
power output) for each head, in half.
This could become an issue when your DAR makes his/her inspection.
Charlie Kuss
com>
>
>Hello
> Redoing my lower dash panel.
>
> 1 I have a Whalen strobe powerpack that can handle either 1,2,3
> or 4 strobes. It is 14v 7a unit . I have 2 wingtip , 1 tail and 1
> red strobe/ beacon.
>
> My question is if I could use a [ 2-10 ?] switch to control this
> strobe power unit and have the red beacon turn on the middle switch
> position and then add the other 3 strobes at the top switch position?
> If that would not do it is there some other arrangment to do it?
>
>2 I have the B + C instrament lighting dimmer setup .
> I have Inst. lights, couple of post lights Radio lights ,Lower
> dash panel lights , and 2 over the shoulder lights. I have a cabin
> ovhd light as well.
>
> I am using Fiber light units on most instraments and on the lower
> dash. The lower dash units are a long fiber optic strip that has
> lettering on them to label the lower dash panel items.
>
> How should I handle this whole setup?
> I only have one dimmer pot .
>Do I need some type of rotary switch?
> Regular switches or wire the ovhd to a seperate switch? ? wire
> them all together?
>
>Any ideas would be helfull
>
> thanks l
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D11546#11546
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Bob and some dislike the I-VR because there is one
> transistor that controls the field. If that transistor
> failed (single point failure) it could in THEORY cause
> a high uncontrolled OV condition. NO one has proved
> this has EVER happened as they say. By prove I
> mean took a claimed runaway VR and determined the
> cause was this single point failure. Its RARE indeed.
Failure of the pass transistor in internally regulated or externally
regulated alternators and generators is rare but it does happen. Bob is
working on an OV protection circuit for the Nanchang CJ6A for just this
reason. The pass transistor in the VR shorts and turns the generator on
hard. (Late-model transistorized regulator, not the old
electromechanical regulator.) In one case it caused the battery to catch
fire. In another case the battery exploded causing substantial damage to
the aircraft. This is a dangerous failure that can result in the
destruction of the aircraft in flight if it happens. It deserves attention.
> In practice the field transistor is bullet proof.
Uh, no, that is not quite true. It is a transistor. It can fail. And
when it fails, it can fail shorted leading to an OV situation.
> 1) The alternator defaults to 18v (17v?) by
> design and typical. It is also NOT
> indicative of the claim that the field has
> gone crazy.
Crazy? Not a lot of useful information in that description. If you mean
that the pass transistor has shorted and turned the field on hard
leading to runaway high-voltage output, then, yes, that is the problem.
> There is a fault and it has lost
> some control, but it is NOT out of control.
I happen to think you are wrong but humor me. This is easy enough to
figure out if you can get to the field winding. Throw a 'scope
(something we idiot technicians know how to use) on the field and look
for the field being turned on and off rapidly (PWM control). If it is
always on, the pass transistor in the VR is failed shorted.
> 2) One event does not make a case, but your
> experience is typical. In the rare cases of
> OV (anything over 14.5v).
If it happens once, it will happen again. They can fail and when they
do, they will do serious damage to the battery and possibly the avionics.
Transistors do fail. That they are inside or outside the body of the
alternator does not change this fact.
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak(at)lloyd.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)randolphs.net> |
| Subject: | Z13-8 how to energize standby contactor? |
I'm rebuilding the electrical system on my flying RV6a. Conventional Mags
but all electric panel, so leaning strongly toward the Z-13/8 configuration.
I have developed several questions, but I'll send them individually to try
to keep the list archive most useable.
On the A13-8 diagram, it shows the Aux Alt "master" contractor energized
from the main battery side. Is there any reason not to energize it from the
SD-8 alternator side? My assumption is that the SD-8 will always generate a
voltage since it's got permanent magnets so it wouldn't need the battery to
energize the field before it was able to kick it's own relay on. It should
be a fine point that wouldn't usually matter, but if somehow the main
battery went flat (I don't know, flying with the Nav lights on durring the
day and not noticing a failed main alt because the low volts light bulb was
burned out?) it seems like it'd be nice to be able to bootstrap the system
from the SD-8.
Thanks!
Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)randolphs.net> |
| Subject: | Z31-B Ground power disconnect? |
Reviewing the diagram of the "piper" style ground power plug in Z-31B it
appears that once external power is applied, the contactor would stay
energized forever (at least until the battery was killed) since the
engergizing current would flow backward through the contactor and through
the solenoid coil. Is there a key point I'm missing or is an interrupt
switch of some kind called for?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)randolphs.net> |
| Subject: | Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
Would it be "bad" if the main alternator was still running and the standby
alternator were engaged? My assumption is that which ever alternator's
regulator had the higher set point would max itself out (assuming a high
enough load) and the other alternator would pick up the rest (or idle) with
no ill effect on the system overall. Is this true, or are there issues I'm
missing like dynamic circuit response causing some kind of feedback or the
smaller SD8 burning itself up? A related question: If the load is greater
than the SD-8 can support is there any consequence other than the battery
supplying the extra required current? For instance if I flip on the battery
master and run landing lights or pitot heat or something.
Thanks again!
Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)randolphs.net> |
| Subject: | Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
bus. It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
useful. In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged. At that point it stop indicating
unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
alternator. In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
voltage warning circuit!) BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
Warning circuit? I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
light/LED used.
Does anyone see a problem with this configuration? Does it miss a design
consideration that motivated it's original placement?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
> that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
Since the range of the voltmeter in question only extended to 18 volts,
it doesn't seem that we can confidently say what the voltage was, only
that it was at least 18 volts (or at least whatever voltage causes the
instrument to register 18 volts). The accuracy of the gauge could be
determined easily enough by cross-checking using a DVM of known
accuracy, so long as it was connected to the same place that the panel
meter uses--but that's really a side issue. As the scenario was
described, the voltmeter was pegged at 18 volts--you can't say from that
that the resulting voltage was 18 max; it's more like 18 min.
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
>
>Hello George,
>
>A couple of questions:
>
>What causes the failed IR overvoltage event to max-out at 17V (or 18V)?
>Is it loads and battery?
Yes, recall the power system dynamics article I started last
spring:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/DC_Power_System_Dynamics_C.pdf
Starting on page 6 we explore the battery's ability to stand
of the output of a runaway alternator . . .
> Or is the field current limited somehow. It
>seems that we discussed that a short between Vb and the field (through the
>main transistor, or otherwise) would cause cause an OV event similar to
>what was described - open loop output, controlled by RPM, and load - the
>battery being the primary load. Mr Lee didn't mention whether he
>experimented with eliminating loads, and revving the engine to a higher
>RPM (I wouldn't have tried that on my daily driver). But it seems that
>you are suggesting that even had he done that, 17V would have been the
>peak voltage seen on the bus. Am I reading you right?
>
>How long can we predict that we can leave a typical 17Ah AGM battery
>connected to 17V, and have it act as a system filter?
Depends on the size of the battery, its construction and it's
station in service life. The newer the battery, and assuming it's
an RG battery, it will hold a 60A alternator to something under
20 volts for some period of time. I'd guess maybe a minute or
more.
> Is there any risk
>of fire associated with long term (admittedly, unquantified) operation in
>such a manner?
Yes but slight. Remember this Odyssey battery we got from a Lister
who had suffered an ov condition? See pictures at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Odyssey_OV/Odyssey_OV_1.jpg
But the risk is non-existent if you have some form of
ov warning, if only a light. You have some period of
time from onset of ov condition until things start coming
unglued.
>Asked another way, what's the charge rate on the battery
>when pumped to 17V? I suppose your suggestion to include a b-lead
>disconnect of some sort (breaker, in your case) addresses this issue. As
>long as the pilot registers that the bus voltage is significantly out of
>limits.
>
>Without intending to put words into Bob (Nuckolls)'s mouth, I believe he
>has said that he can't recommend IR alternators in the context of
>designing an electrical system with certificated-like behavior. Not an
>all-out condemnation of these alternators as a whole. I believe he has,
>on several occasions, recognized the advantages of these low-cost devices.
Back in December, I posted this response:
>Bob,
>
>Any recent updates on the "internally regulated alternator"?
>
>I know that you were not recommending it's use on an "all electric
>airplane with dual electronic ignition", which is the configuration of the
>plane I am building.
Not at all. The modern internally regulated alternator
is a great piece of hardware that offers excellent value
over most 60's certified alternators flying today. Your
choice of alternators has nothing to do with whether or
not you have electronic ignition, EFIS, or any other
modern feature.
Depending on WHICH IR alternator you choose, you may not
have 100%, absolute control over it's output which
does not satisfy traditional design goals.
Further, depending on WHICH IR alternator you choose,
you may not be able to add a convenient form of
OV protection which is also a traditional design
goal.
Finally, depending on WHICH IR alternator you choose,
the act of turning it on and OFF at inopportune times
may damage the alternator's regulator.
Having offered this, there are thousands of OBAM
aircraft flying wherein the builder has not included
these points in satisfaction of his own design goals
either because he has considered them insignificant
or doesn't understand them well enough to make a
well considered decision. None-the-less, a vast
majority of these aircraft ARE flying trouble free.
However, from time to time, we're made aware of
installations where the builder wishes he had
considered and adopted the traditional design
goals. It's a small percentage to be sure . . .
but then catastrophic runaway failures in the
certified ships also constitutes a small percentage
of all failures.
Bottom line is that we will be able to offer a means
by which any internally regulated alternator can
be integrated into your airplane under the traditional
design goals. In the mean time, drive on with whatever
installation instructions come with your alternator
of choice knowing that modifying the system will be
easy and inexpensive at a later time. I've been trying
to get the next few pages of "Understanding Alternators"
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/alternators/UA/Alternators_1.html
published but things are really busy around here this
time of year.
---------------------------------------
I've been working on the "Understanding Alternators" article
and plan to combine it with the DC Power System Dynamics
article.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supplies was Wiring issues |
Cc: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Nelson,
Did you get an installation manual with this power supply? I ask,
because the A413A is an obsolete model. It has been superceded by the
model HDACF. See
http://www.whelen.com/aviation/catalog/Power%20Supply%20Replacement.pdf
Whelen's installation manual can be found here
http://www.whelen.com/aviation/Avserman.pdf
This unit will not meet the current light requirements, as even in
alternating mode, it only supplies 25 joules. Current requirement is
for approximately 40 joules. Most newer Whelen or Nova units produce
42 joules of light energy.
Running 3 or more strobe heads simultaneously will reduce the output
to only 12.5 joules.
Can you email me an electronic copy of your manual, if you have one?
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>Ok My power supply is Whelen A413a 7 amps Can use either 1,2,3,4 lights
>are 25 +25 joules or 12 joules or 25 +12 any combination depending if
>alternate or simultaneous. Any thoughts on the wiring? Or the dimmer
>stuff? I would like to start wiring my panel but am waiting on these 2
>issues. Thanks
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: Charlie Kuss
>Date: 02/13/06 08:05:16
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe power supplies was Wiring issues
>
>net>
>
>You might want to consult your Whelen manual regarding using this
>power pack for 3 or 4 strobe heads. What is your power supply model?
>Most Whelen and Nova power supplies only supply rated power to HALF
>the number of heads. Most units only supply half power when using
>more than half the maximum number of strobe heads. My Nova 904 can
>run up to 6 heads. However, this means that each capacitor must power
>2 heads rather than 1. This cuts the charging time (and therefore the
>power output) for each head, in half.
> This could become an issue when your DAR makes his/her inspection.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>com>
> >
> >Hello
> > Redoing my lower dash panel.
> >
> > 1 I have a Whalen strobe powerpack that can handle either 1,2,3
> > or 4 strobes. It is 14v 7a unit . I have 2 wingtip , 1 tail and 1
> > red strobe/ beacon.
> >
> > My question is if I could use a [ 2-10 ?] switch to control this
> > strobe power unit and have the red beacon turn on the middle switch
> > position and then add the other 3 strobes at the top switch position?
> > If that would not do it is there some other arrangment to do it?
> >
> >2 I have the B + C instrament lighting dimmer setup .
> > I have Inst. lights, couple of post lights Radio lights ,Lower
> > dash panel lights , and 2 over the shoulder lights. I have a cabin
> > ovhd light as well.
> >
> > I am using Fiber light units on most instraments and on the lower
> > dash. The lower dash units are a long fiber optic strip that has
> > lettering on them to label the lower dash panel items.
> >
> > How should I handle this whole setup?
> > I only have one dimmer pot .
> >Do I need some type of rotary switch?
> > Regular switches or wire the ovhd to a seperate switch? ? wire
> > them all together?
> >
> >Any ideas would be helfull
> >
> > thanks l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D11546#11546
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Exactly what I was thinking Dan.
Even though the idiot light came on, without further info or testing of
the alternator I see no reason to assume that there was secondary OV
protection operating in this example. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
Ken
Dan Brown wrote:
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
>>that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
>>
>>
>
> Since the range of the voltmeter in question only extended to 18 volts,
>it doesn't seem that we can confidently say what the voltage was, only
>that it was at least 18 volts (or at least whatever voltage causes the
>instrument to register 18 volts). The accuracy of the gauge could be
>determined easily enough by cross-checking using a DVM of known
>accuracy, so long as it was connected to the same place that the panel
>meter uses--but that's really a side issue. As the scenario was
>described, the voltmeter was pegged at 18 volts--you can't say from that
>that the resulting voltage was 18 max; it's more like 18 min.
>
>- --
>Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | instrument wiring |
I'm working on installing wiring and panel stuff in my RV-6A. The Van's fuel gage
and ammeter installation instructions say to use 18 AWG wire for the power,
ground, and sensor wires on the fuel gages and for the power and ground wire
on the ammeter. I didn't read that until after wiring up with 22 AWG as I didn't
think the current draw was significant enough to warrant anything bigger
- based this on an estimate of ~0.4 amps max per instrument from reference material
I looked at (yes, I looked through several books but didn't read the instructions
that came with the instruments....).
Am I that far out on my load estimates? Anybody think 18 AWG is really necessary
for powering these instruments? I'm wiring these independently, not daisy
chaining them as shown in the Van's drawings.
Thanks for any feedback,
Chris Hand
RV-6A, finishing stages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | dimmer ckt from Van's |
I hooked up my instrument lights to the Van's dimmer ckt I installed and powered
things up. Power distribution is working and I have battery voltage at the
+12V terminal screw on the dimmer board. Also show good ground on the dimmer
board's ground terminal screw. Potentiometer is working properly and connected
to the right terminals on the board.
Output I'm getting at the Load terminal on the dimmer board varies from 0 to about
6 mV rather than the expected 2.5 V up to battery voltage.
The dimmer ckt is new out of the box, but I bought it well over a year ago and
didn't test it prior to now. Has anybody experienced similar issues with the
Van's board, and are there any suggestions on how to fix it without having to
buy a new one?
If I give up on the dimmer ckt from Van's, I need to find something else with a
poteniometer/dimmer knob the same size or larger since I already have the current
one installed in the panel.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give me.
Chris Hand
RV-6A, finishing stages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
>
>
>That peek required a magnifying glass Bob, plus a bright light and a glass
>of scotch.
>
>The dimming circuit doesn't rate a mention in the specifications at all,
>beyond a "+14v (input)" description in section 5-2 when describing the
>Molex connector pins.
>
>According to the schematic, the input flows through an LC filter, the coil
>value unspecified but described as EXC-ELDR25C and is a component used in
>several other parts of the schematic; the capacitor is 0.0047 uF. The input
>is picked off at the L and C junction. Test voltages at that point are
>called out as 13.5V both in Tx and Rx. It then leads to 2 "lamps" on the
>Main Unit pcb, drawn as incandescent bulbs but described in the parts list
>as LEDs, via an 8.2 ohm resistor. Those 2 are wired in parallel between the
>tail of that resistor and ground. They backlight the front panel push
>switches. Test voltages at the junction of the tail of the 8.2 ohm res and
>the paralleled leds is 12.5V, both in Rx and Tx.
>
>A branch before the 8.2 ohm resistor also feeds a further 6 "lamps", again
>drawn as incandescent lamps but again described in the parts list as LEDs,
>via an 18 ohm resistor. These 6 backlight the LCD display panel, wired 3 in
>series, the 2 series networks then wired in parallel between the tail of the
>18 ohm Res. and ground. These obviously backlight the LCD display on the
>Front Unit. Test voltages at the junction of the led networks and the 18ohm
>are called out as 10.0V on both transmit and receive..
>
>Nothing furter mentioned anywhere but I hope this little helps. It seems to
>me to be a fairly straightforward linear circuit, lending itself readily to
>dimming by varying the input voltage below the 13.8 volt rail?
Agreed. Given the compactness of the package and what we
know about incandescent lamps, it's logical and likely that
the resistors serve as many as two purposes. (1) to balance
levels between the two lighting functions and (2) boost
life of the lamps. They're probably difficult to replace
and the prudent designer would do well to strive for very
long life. I'll modify my wiring diagram accordingly. Thanks for
the data dump!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Minearts" <smineart(at)mahaska.org> |
| Subject: | OV protection-JD Alternator/VR |
Has anyone used Bob's OV protection hardware with the John Deere 18amp alt and
voltage regulator, AM101406, like used on the Wynne Corvair conversion? Would
it be similar to the setup on Z-16, the Rotax system with PM alternator?
Steve Mineart, CH601
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey % of charge |
>
>If the charging system is not working does anyone have an approximate % of
>remaining capacity versus voltage for a Odyssey PC680 or similar?
>
>What is a safe lower voltage limit one can discharge a PC680 to and not
>cause permanent battery damage?
I guessing . . . but when most folks ask this question,
the goal is to deduce some sense of how long the battery
will run certain pieces of equipment given it's present
state of charge.
Keep in mind that voltage versus capacity deductions are
only valid for a battery that is not loaded. Further the
numbers are only approximate and most valid after the
battery has been sitting static (neither loaded nor
charged) for hours.
Finally, any deductions you might make for endurance must
be guided by knowing the battery's present CAPACITY as
well. Knowing the voltage alone is like driving an
unfamiliar vehicle with a gas gage calibrated as
E - quarter - half - three quarters - Full. You have
some sense of percentage of fuel remaining but without
knowing the capacity of the tank, there's no way to
deduce range and present rate of consumption.
Know that ALL lead-acid technologies are 95% used up
at 11 volts for a 12-volt battery. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Capacity_vs_Voltage.gif
This is a curve for a big biz jet battery where we see
that for "light" loads (1 to 2x of capacity), the discharge
voltage has a sharp "knee" that increases the negative
going slope as it crosses 11v/22v line.
This particular battery is capacity rated at CC levels
of discharge i.e., it's a 37 a.h. battery that will give
100% of rated capacity at 74 amps of discharge (typical
for rating bizjet batteries that have a 30 minute emergency
requirement). If one were to discharge this battery like
most of the rest of the industry does (20 hour rate) then
it would probably exhibit a capacity on the order of
50 ampere-hours.
Check out this curve from the datasheet on a Panasonic
33 a.h. battery:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/LA1233_Panasonic.gif
Again, note the shape knee in the curve as it dives
through 11 volts . . . all used up. In this case, the
battery is not specifically rated for emergency power
service in airplanes - it couldn't be called a
33 a.h. device. If we run up the 30-minute line to
11 volts, we find that the battery would have to be
rated as a 26 a.h. device if intended for that kind
of service.
The only way to KNOW how long your battery will perform
certain duties during alternator out operations is to
track the battery's capacity. I.e., load it with the
anticipated endurance loads and see how long it takes
to get down to 11.0 volts. I'm guessing this is the number
you were hoping to deduce with the answer to your original
question. A pure voltage measurement is not a useful
anticipator of performance when the alternator is off
line.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OV protection-JD Alternator/VR |
>
>Has anyone used Bob's OV protection hardware with the John Deere 18amp alt
>and voltage regulator, AM101406, like used on the Wynne Corvair
>conversion? Would it be similar to the setup on Z-16, the Rotax system
>with PM alternator?
>Steve Mineart, CH601
All PM alternators (and internally regulated wound field
alternators) share a common characteristic in that they
cannot be absolutely controlled from the outside. Hence
the need for opening the main power lead from the device
(high current) as opposed to opening the field circuit.
Incorporation of OV protection for this class of alternator
is illustrated in Z-16 and is applicable to any instance
where the builder desires the protection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
> > that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
>
> Since the range of the voltmeter in question only extended to 18
> volts,
>it doesn't seem that we can confidently say what the voltage was, only
>that it was at least 18 volts (or at least whatever voltage causes the
>instrument to register 18 volts). The accuracy of the gauge could be
>determined easily enough by cross-checking using a DVM of known
>accuracy, so long as it was connected to the same place that the panel
>meter uses--but that's really a side issue. As the scenario was
>described, the voltmeter was pegged at 18 volts--you can't say from that
>that the resulting voltage was 18 max; it's more like 18 min.
Excellent observation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> once? |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
>
>Would it be "bad" if the main alternator was still running and the standby
>alternator were engaged? My assumption is that which ever alternator's
>regulator had the higher set point would max itself out (assuming a high
>enough load) and the other alternator would pick up the rest (or idle) with
>no ill effect on the system overall. Is this true, or are there issues I'm
>missing like dynamic circuit response causing some kind of feedback or the
>smaller SD8 burning itself up? A related question: If the load is greater
>than the SD-8 can support is there any consequence other than the battery
>supplying the extra required current? For instance if I flip on the battery
>master and run landing lights or pitot heat or something.
No, there is no risk to any system components by having both
alternators on at the same time. The alternator having the higher
regulation setpoint will become fully loaded before the other
alternator . . . which is generally not a risk to the alternator
itself. But in case of the SD-8 where the high stress component
is the regulator, there is perhaps some risk to this device if not
well heat-sinked.
Generally speaking, the well designed alternator cannot be damaged
by overloading. It simply goes into current limited operation and
the output voltage sags. Generators from days of yore would willingly
destroy themselves in an overload condition hence the need for BOTH
current and voltage limiting in the generator's regulator. Alternators
have never needed such protection.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Main? |
| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus. It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful. In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
>offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged. At that point it stop indicating
>unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
>alternator. In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
>warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
>operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
>voltage warning circuit!) BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
>Warning circuit? I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
>light/LED used.
>
>Does anyone see a problem with this configuration? Does it miss a design
>consideration that motivated it's original placement?
Yes. The normal e-bus voltage is .6 to .8 volts below the main
bus due to isolation diode drops in normal operation. The REAL
voltage of interest is at the main bus and it's purpose is to
annunciate alternator failure.
Further, when you react to the alternator failure by turning
the main bus OFF, you want the LV warning to go dark too. Without
an alternator, the LV light flashes all the time . . . you don't
want this thing flashing at you during battery-only, e-bus ops.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z31-B Ground power disconnect? |
>
>Reviewing the diagram of the "piper" style ground power plug in Z-31B it
>appears that once external power is applied, the contactor would stay
>energized forever (at least until the battery was killed) since the
>engergizing current would flow backward through the contactor and through
>the solenoid coil. Is there a key point I'm missing or is an interrupt
>switch of some kind called for?
Yup, it's called the ground power control switch illustrated
in this case as a switch-breaker in the lower left quadrant
of the drawing. If you want to use a miniature push-pull breaker,
then an additional switch is called for . . . or you could use
the breaker itself as the controlling device. It's a VERY low
usage item and I'd have no heartburn about using the breaker
as a switch in this case.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is a Relay Needed? |
| From: | "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com> |
I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons. One
of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps. (RV-8) I have
tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
over two amps when running. Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
rated for five amps. Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
this sort of margin?
Regards,
Don Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Scott wrote:
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus. It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful. In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
>offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged. At that point it stop indicating
>unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
>alternator. In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
>warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
>operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
>voltage warning circuit!) BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
>Warning circuit? I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
>light/LED used.
>
>Does anyone see a problem with this configuration? Does it miss a design
>consideration that motivated it's original placement?
>
>
>
How would you know if the main buss went offline?
If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
automatically, you might never see the warning.
I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>Molex connector pins.
>>
>>
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one. I quietly borrow some sewing
needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the receptacle
and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
pull the pin out. I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a more
sophisticated fashion? One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if we
can locate a ready source.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>
>>>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
Years ago (in my other life), I made a couple of these molex pin
removal tools at work to fit the various sized pins/receptacles we
used. It was simply a 1/4" diameter brass rod about two inches long,
with a smaller rod stuck through it (or soldered on) at one end to make
a tee type handle.
For the pin end, I mounted it in a lathe (before I put the tee handle on
it ) and bored it out with the proper sized drill to fit the pin
loosely. While still on the lathe, I turned down the rod on the outside
so it would fit inside the receptacle.
If you figure the depth of the pin's hole correctly, and the length of
the turned down portion of the rod that will fit inside the receptacle,
then you can use the tool to push the pin completely free of the
receptacle without ever having to pull on the wire.
If you don't have a lathe, take a 1/4" brass rod to a shop or friend
with one, show them a pin and a receptacle and let them at it. It's
pretty simple, and they do last a long time! Still have mine around
here somewhere...12 years after retiring!
Harley Dixon
Bill Maxwell wrote:
>
>I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one. I quietly borrow some sewing
>needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the receptacle
>and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
>pull the pin out. I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a more
>sophisticated fashion? One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if we
>can locate a ready source.
>
>Bill
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>>To:
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
>>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>>Where can it be obtained?
>>
>>Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
I've got one about the same age but haven't hooked it up yet.
I think Van's is pretty good about replacing defective items?
Good Luck,
Bob
On 2/15/06, Chris & Kellie Hand wrote:
>
> I hooked up my instrument lights to the Van's dimmer ckt I installed and powered
things up. Power distribution is working and I have battery voltage at the
+12V terminal screw on the dimmer board. Also show good ground on the dimmer
board's ground terminal screw. Potentiometer is working properly and connected
to the right terminals on the board.
> Output I'm getting at the Load terminal on the dimmer board varies from 0 to
about 6 mV rather than the expected 2.5 V up to battery voltage.
>
> The dimmer ckt is new out of the box, but I bought it well over a year ago and
didn't test it prior to now. Has anybody experienced similar issues with the
Van's board, and are there any suggestions on how to fix it without having to
buy a new one?
> If I give up on the dimmer ckt from Van's, I need to find something else with
a poteniometer/dimmer knob the same size or larger since I already have the current
one installed in the panel.
>
> Thanks for any help or advice you can give me.
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, finishing stages
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator (to Matt) |
>Subject: Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator
>From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Hi Matt: Thanks for the great post let me see
if I can explain or at least share my
ignorance.
>Hello George, A couple of questions:
>
>
>What causes the failed IR overvoltage event to max-
>out at 17V (or 18V)? Is it loads and battery? Or
>is the field current limited somehow. It seems
>that we discussed that a short between Vb and the
>field (through the main transistor, or otherwise)
>would cause an OV event similar to what was
>described - open loop output, controlled by RPM,
>and load the battery being the primary load. Mr
>Lee didn't mention whether he experimented with
>eliminating loads, and revving the engine to a
>higher RPM (I wouldn't have tried that on my daily
>driver). But it seems that you are suggesting that
>even had he done that, 17V would have been the peak
>voltage seen on the bus. Am I reading you right?
To be honest I dont know what caused the OV.
If Mr. Lee would send the VR to me I will have
it evaluated and dissected. A large
manufacture of aftermarket VR of all brands
and types says they would check any VR of any
make or brand for me. They have a lab with x-
ray, test equipment and expertise to do
failure analysis.
Are you saying that this is indicative of a
dead short of the field driver transistor? Not
to be combative I would say prove it. Of the
few OV conditions I have seen with NDs, they
seem every time to peeks at 16 or 17 volts
(talking about ND alternators only). From a
Toyota repair manual it does seem when there
is a fault the alternator can go into a 16v
mode, albeit not a very stable or regulated,
it never allows the voltage to RUN-A-WAY. Also
if this is the worst that can happen I say so
what. It aint no biggie.
Mr. Lee did vary load and RPM. He did a great
job of testing RPM, Load and noticed the idiot
light went out and on with voltage. If there
was a dead short, the dreaded RUN-A-WAY, I
think it would pump out way more voltage than
18v even with load applied or not.
Yes I am suggesting 17 (18) volt is the peak
with THIS KIND of (typ) failure. I am sure it is
possible to have the single fault runaway with
a ND. I believe Bob N and from what little I
know, it is possible. However from the Mr.
Lees F150 OV I dont see this, nor did Mr. L.
I do see an alternator that went to an a-stable
condition where voltage varied from 13v to
18v. Noting more nothing less? If you tell me
that is a classic shorted transistor I say SO
WHAT? Ha ha ha ha. Who is worried about that.
If that is the worst that can happen, so what.
The urban legend does not match reality, busted!
I-VR's are cool, not the evil OV machine.
>How long can we predict that we can leave a typical
>17Ah AGM battery connected to 17V, and have it act
>as a system filter? Is there any risk of fire
>associated with long term (admittedly,
>unquantified) operation in such a manner? Asked
>another way, what's the charge rate on the battery
>when pumped to 17V? I suppose your suggestion to
>include a b-lead disconnect of some sort (breaker,
>in your case) addresses this issue. As long as the
>pilot registers that the bus voltage is
>significantly out of limits.
Another great question. I would say that is
why we have an idiot light on the alternator
or a HI/Lo volt warning light. With the BIG
OLD FAT Circuit Breaker for the B-lead on the
panel, pulling it makes it a moot worry.
However to answer the question I think the
battery can take an over charge for a
reasonable about of time, a minute to 10?
Bob reported a case of a RV pilot who had an
OV and flew for quite a while with out any
action, despite smelling something burning.
When he noticed the volt meter was TOO high
(no value given) he turned the ALT off with
the ALT switch. The volts returned to normal.
When he landed the battery case had expanded
and was clearly bulging out. First no actual
time was given for the duration of the OV, but
it could be 10 minutes to 40 minutes. When he
noticed the volt meter (I think analog) he
stated it was HI but no value given. I am
guessing that it was 17 volts. No damage to
radios was reported, but it is assumed that it
was a basic VFR plane.
So I think there is a risk, but low. As far as
the battery it was being abused with high
volts from say 5-40 minutes(?) and it only
bulged. The alternator did not catch on fire
but Bob N. reported damage to internal parts,
no doubt from pumping out too much juice. As
long as the alternator is not near anything it
can catch on fire from heat and is not
dripping in oil it should not do anything but
get real hop. However if you turn the juice
off to the IGN lead of the alternator and pull
the b-lead CB it should shut down or just burn
out in short order.
>Without intending to put words into Bob (Nuckolls)'s
>mouth, I believe He has said that he can't recommend
>IR alternators in the context of designing an
>electrical system with certificated-like behavior.
>Not an all-out condemnation of these alternators as
>a whole. I believe he has, on several occasions,
>recognized the advantages of these low-cost devices.
>
>Regards, Matt-
Yes, you could be right. All I know is Bob was
OK with I-VR, or at least he allowed it in his
book with a Crow Bar and OV contactor as he
showed in his Z diagrams. Than Van said, he
will not warranty alternators they sold if an OV
device was used and did not recommend it. This
is after several (of Bobs) crow bars blew up
alternators. Bobs response was to call Van
ignorant and state he was taking out all
reference of I-VR in his book. Also on page 2:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_E.pdf
and, page one, right column, first Par, 2) for
years......
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Failures.pdf
I could be wrong. I got the idea he is anti I-
VRs. I agree with his claim that they cant be
certified for aircraft use, is true. However
automotive fuse blocks cant be certified. In
fact most experimental kit planes cant be
certified either. I dont hold the FAA good
house keeping stamp in such high absolute
terms. It seems like Bob N. will fall back on,
it cant be certified, when it suits him, and
push non standard or automotive technology
when it does suit him. I was in aircraft
certification new and modification of large
transport aircraft. I do know how it works.
However Bob N. has way more electrical
knowledge and experience than I do.
Take fuses you cant *fiddle with* as Bob
says or a fuse on B-leads under the cowl.
These are very alternative approaches and a
direct copy from automotive wiring
architecture. I doubt the FAA would approve
any airplane wired to Aeroelectric, E-VR or I-
VR. Does that make it Bad. No it makes it
better. So, can it be certified?, makes no impact
or impression on me. I know better. It is a
hollow claim, especially on experimental aircraft.
The SR71 and SpaceShip1 are not FAA approved.
Cheers George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
------------------
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
a Molex connector pin removal tool. Where can it be obtained?
Carlos
-----------------
Stein has them: www.steinair.com/tools.htm - see the SAT-033. B&C has
them as well.
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and 17V.
Anybody know where to get one?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! Removal Tool |
Thanks guys
It happens that I have one of those blue/white removal tools that Stein
sells, but I simply didn't know that they work with these Molex connectors.
I will try it!
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
> ------------------
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
> a Molex connector pin removal tool. Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
> -----------------
> Stein has them: www.steinair.com/tools.htm - see the SAT-033. B&C has
> them as well.
>
> Dennis Glaeser
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
mounting tray. (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)
For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your wife.
See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Enjoy,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
Now why didn't I think of that? Thanks Harley.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
> Years ago (in my other life), I made a couple of these molex pin
> removal tools at work to fit the various sized pins/receptacles we
> used. It was simply a 1/4" diameter brass rod about two inches long,
> with a smaller rod stuck through it (or soldered on) at one end to make
> a tee type handle.
>
> For the pin end, I mounted it in a lathe (before I put the tee handle on
> it ) and bored it out with the proper sized drill to fit the pin
> loosely. While still on the lathe, I turned down the rod on the outside
> so it would fit inside the receptacle.
>
> If you figure the depth of the pin's hole correctly, and the length of
> the turned down portion of the rod that will fit inside the receptacle,
> then you can use the tool to push the pin completely free of the
> receptacle without ever having to pull on the wire.
>
> If you don't have a lathe, take a 1/4" brass rod to a shop or friend
> with one, show them a pin and a receptacle and let them at it. It's
> pretty simple, and they do last a long time! Still have mine around
> here somewhere...12 years after retiring!
>
> Harley Dixon
>
>
> Bill Maxwell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one. I quietly borrow some
>>sewing
>>needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the
>>receptacle
>>and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
>>pull the pin out. I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a
>>more
>>sophisticated fashion? One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if
>>we
>>can locate a ready source.
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>>To:
>>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
>>>a
>>>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>>>Where can it be obtained?
>>>
>>>Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
Better yet and no sharp point to negotiate!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
> I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
> the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
> mounting tray. (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)
>
> For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your
> wife.
>
> See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
>
> Enjoy,
>
> James Redmon
> Berkut #013 N97TX
> http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
>> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
>> a
>> Molex connector pin removal tool.
>> Where can it be obtained?
>>
>> Carlos
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! |
>
>I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
>the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
>mounting tray. (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)
>
>For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your wife.
>
>See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
I've made tools for the KK and similar pins from small screwdrivers
and a few minutes with a grinder. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/extraction_tool.jpg
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Main? |
| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
>
>Scott wrote:
>
> >
> >The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
> >bus. It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
> >useful. In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
> >offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged. At that point it stop indicating
> >unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
> >alternator. In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
> >warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
> >operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
> >voltage warning circuit!) BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
> >Warning circuit? I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
> >light/LED used.
> >
> >Does anyone see a problem with this configuration? Does it miss a design
> >consideration that motivated it's original placement?
> >
> >
> >
>
> How would you know if the main buss went offline?
>If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
>time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
>automatically, you might never see the warning.
How would you not know the main bus was off? That
takes the whole panel down. What failure would you
anticipate would produce this effect?
> I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
>initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
>switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.
The low voltage warning is not intended to monitor
a bus, it's intended to provide active and almost immediate
notification of alternator failure. Total loss of the main
bus takes a combination of failures and is difficult not
to notice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Piper Style Ground Power |
>
>Reviewing the diagram of the "piper" style ground power plug in Z-31B it
>appears that once external power is applied, the contactor would stay
>energized forever (at least until the battery was killed) since the
>engergizing current would flow backward through the contactor and through
>the solenoid coil. Is there a key point I'm missing or is an interrupt
>switch of some kind called for?
Yup, it's called the ground power control switch illustrated
in this case as a switch-breaker in the lower left quadrant
of the drawing. If you want to use a miniature push-pull breaker,
then an additional switch is called for . . . or you could use
the breaker itself as the controlling device. It's a VERY low
usage item and I'd have no heartburn about using the breaker
as a switch in this case.
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
UMA makes a 1-1/4" round voltmeter. I have no experience with it, but it
looks nice. www.umainstruments.com
William Slaughter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter
I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and
17V.
Anybody know where to get one?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small Voltmeter |
>
>I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
>Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and 17V.
>
>Anybody know where to get one?
Don't have any digital meters in my bag of tricks. But I
could supply you with a miniature, expanded scale, analog
device.
It would look like it's little brother loadmeter at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/9007-100-1_Loadmeter.jpg
except the scale would run 10-15 volts. You can get
dimensions at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
I'm working on a scaling module that mounts right on
the back of the instrument which is still going through
birthing pains. However, in the mean time, I could put
the scaling module into the same package as the product
shown on page 2 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1B.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Relay Needed? |
>
>
>I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons. One
>of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps. (RV-8) I have
>tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
>over two amps when running. Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
>rated for five amps. Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
>this sort of margin?
>Regards,
>Don Alexander
Yes. Inrush currents on your motors are perhaps 10x bigger
than running currents. Suggest you pick from among the varieties
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: instrument wiring |
>
>
>I'm working on installing wiring and panel stuff in my RV-6A. The Van's
>fuel gage and ammeter installation instructions say to use 18 AWG wire for
>the power, ground, and sensor wires on the fuel gages and for the power
>and ground wire on the ammeter. I didn't read that until after wiring up
>with 22 AWG as I didn't think the current draw was significant enough to
>warrant anything bigger - based this on an estimate of ~0.4 amps max per
>instrument from reference material I looked at (yes, I looked through
>several books but didn't read the instructions that came with the
>instruments....).
>
>Am I that far out on my load estimates? Anybody think 18 AWG is really
>necessary for powering these instruments? I'm wiring these independently,
>not daisy chaining them as shown in the Van's drawings.
No, 22AWG is plenty for anything an instrument would need
for either power, signal or lighting conductors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garland Edwards" <eddieedwards(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Link for Small Volt meter |
Saw this on another site. Hope this helps.
Ed
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200
Garland Edwards
eddieedwards(at)mindspring.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Link for Small Volt meter |
>
>
>Saw this on another site. Hope this helps.
>Ed
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200
Cute! Hadn't seen that product yet. Great price too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Small voltmeter..... |
http://www.martelmeters.com/pdf/QM_100V.pdf
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Link for Small Volt meter |
And it works very well. Got 2 in my panel, not flying yet, but worked good
so far in bench experiences.
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:01 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Link for Small Volt meter
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Saw this on another site. Hope this helps.
>>Ed
>>
>>http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200
>
> Cute! Hadn't seen that product yet. Great price too.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
.022x.053x.400" on business end.
Jerry
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)randolphs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
Dj,
My thought was that activating the standby alternator would be a manual
process so the light would stay on until pilot action was taken. As Bob
points out, if _both_ alternators fail, I'd get a continuosly blinking
light, but I really hope both don't fail on the same day! I suppose I could
use the low voltage detection to activate the standby relay, but then it'd
kick in anytime the engine wasn't spinning (ie: before start when it'd burn
a little current in the coil). Hmm. Maybe I'll give some more thought to
that tradeoff. Automatic or manual activation? What have others done and
why?
A big question, though, is would the diode drop Bob mentioned be enough to
generate a false indication of low voltage if I were sensing the E-bus. Is
the aeroelectric part "setable" or forgiving enough to account for that? If
not I guess I'd be compelled to go with switching in front of the low
voltage warning if I want it to see the E-bus when the main is offline.
Thanks for the food for thought.
-----Original Message-----
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus. It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful.....
>
How would you know if the main buss went offline?
If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
automatically, you might never see the warning.
I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | fluid level sensor needed |
Hi,
I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
I've found lots of on/off switches that will
tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
that will give me analog output over a range
of values? Reasonably priced means to me
something less than about $250.
Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fluid level sensor needed |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Mickey,
How much space do you have to work with? Maybe you could use a
float-type fuel level sensor and shorten the arm so that it fits inside
the reservoir.
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
Hi,
I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
I've found lots of on/off switches that will
tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
that will give me analog output over a range
of values? Reasonably priced means to me
something less than about $250.
Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fluid level sensor needed |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I don't know about a level sensor but in my ea81 I use a pressure
guage...If pressure goes away after take off it means I have a leak and
have to land anyway...Its worked pretty well for 400 hours.
Just an idea
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
-->
Hi,
I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I will use in my Subaru engine
cooling system.
I've found lots of on/off switches that will tell me if there is coolant
there or not, but does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor that
will give me analog output over a range of values? Reasonably priced
means to me something less than about $250.
Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
click on: http://www.mcmaster.com/
and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for many uses.
Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bnoon12(at)comcast.net |
Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.
bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>
>
> Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
> .022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.
bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
.022x.053x.400" on business end.
Jerry
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?
Carlos
t, FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bnoon12(at)comcast.net |
http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.
bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>
>
> Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
> .022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.
bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
.022x.053x.400" on business end.
Jerry
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?
Carlos
t, FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jon Goguen <jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
Scott,
Unless special provisions are made, an over voltage condition on one
alternator would trigger the over voltage protection on both.
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Feb 14, 2006, at 7:01 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> Would it be "bad" if the main alternator was still running and the
> standby
> alternator were engaged? My assumption is that which ever alternator's
> regulator had the higher set point would max itself out (assuming a
> high
> enough load) and the other alternator would pick up the rest (or idle)
> with
> no ill effect on the system overall. Is this true, or are there
> issues I'm
> missing like dynamic circuit response causing some kind of feedback or
> the
> smaller SD8 burning itself up? A related question: If the load is
> greater
> than the SD-8 can support is there any consequence other than the
> battery
> supplying the extra required current? For instance if I flip on the
> battery
> master and run landing lights or pitot heat or something.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Scott.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jon Goguen <jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu> |
| Subject: | Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
Hi All,
Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males. These are the only 0.375
quick connect females I have been able to find. I could use closed
barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
get them.
Thanks!
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Feb 16, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Scott wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Afternoon all,
One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an Incident commander for a
large blue chip wafer fab plant.
Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our employee parking
lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the employee was looking for his
spot.
Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by the pager going
off saying the car was on fire. And had had involved 4 other vehicles.
By the time the Fire Deprtment got there the thing was fully engulfed
with 20 foot flames...Fortunatly the gas tank was not involved.
This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
alternator but the battery was completely melted in what looks like
feeding an internal short on the alternator.
Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way to
disconnect the alt"!!!
Frank
Zodiac flying 400 hours
RV7a finishing up prior to paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "_" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
Would it meet your needs to use 2 or 3 float switches with the floats set at
different levels. The fluid level could be defined within a range based
which switches are closed/open.
Good luck,
rayj
Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
> will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
>
> I've found lots of on/off switches that will
> tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
> does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
> that will give me analog output over a range
> of values? Reasonably priced means to me
> something less than about $250.
>
> Thanks!
> Mickey
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Capacitors require a fairly decent dielectric media for the
between-the-plates insulator. Coolant isn't that (dielectric nor
insulating)...
>
>
> If memory serves me correctly, Jim Weir had a 'cheap' do it yourself
> capacitance probe and op amp amplifier project several years ago. You
> might search his site. Or the publication KitPlanes archives. Earl do
> not archive
>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>>>
>>> click on: http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for
>>> many uses. Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
>>>
>>
>> Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.
>>
>> I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.
>>
>> I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
>> type switch. Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.
>>
>> Thanks for all the suggestions!
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> once? |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
>
>Scott,
>
>Unless special provisions are made, an over voltage condition on one
>alternator would trigger the over voltage protection on both.
>
>Jon
I designed the SB-1 alternator for B&C such that it
KNOWS which of the two alternators is causing the OV
condition. An OV condition on the main alternator will
not trip the OV protection in the standby alternator
when wired per Z-12.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Main? |
| Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main? |
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III Main? wrote:
> Main?
>
> > How would you not know the main bus was off? That
> > takes the whole panel down. What failure would you
> > anticipate would produce this effect?
> >
>
> Well, I never claimed I was omnipotent... *grin*
>
>I was thinking something along the lines of the main
>alternator going offline, the main panel running on battery,
>and then the aux alternator kicks in on the aux buss.
What architecture are you talking about . . . which
one of the Z-figures? Your citations of main and aux
bus don't bring a clear image to mind.
>Depending on how things are wired, it may be possible for
>the main buss to be running off the main battery with no
>main alternator, and the E-buss to be running off another
>battery and be on the aux alternator.
Oh. Okay. Z-14 . . . then you don't need an e-bus.
> If this was the case
>and the low voltage were wired to the aux buss, you may
>not immediately realize that you lost your alternator
>on the main buss.
If you run Z-14, then BOTH systems have their own
independent low voltage warnings.
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> barrel terminals |
| Subject: | Re: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
>
>Hi All,
>
>Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
>terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males. These are the only 0.375
>quick connect females I have been able to find. I could use closed
>barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
>get them.
Are these a "fast-on" style connector? For 6AWG wire?
Where do you plan to use them?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: is a relay needed? |
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
>I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons. One
>of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps. (RV-8) I have
>tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
>over two amps when running. Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
>rated for five amps. Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
>this sort of margin?
>Regards,
>Don Alexander
Don:
Im doing a similar set up on my RV-7A. Make your life easy - Vans has a
flap controller circuit board all ready for you. Check it out at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1140134994-90-39&action=search
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You think alternators are safe? |
>
>
>Afternoon all,
>
>One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an Incident commander for a
>large blue chip wafer fab plant.
>
>Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our employee parking
>lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the employee was looking for his
>spot.
>
>Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by the pager going
>off saying the car was on fire. And had had involved 4 other vehicles.
>
>By the time the Fire Deprtment got there the thing was fully engulfed
>with 20 foot flames...Fortunatly the gas tank was not involved.
>
>This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
>alternator but the battery was completely melted in what looks like
>feeding an internal short on the alternator.
>
>Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way to
>disconnect the alt"!!!
This is the one fallacy in the automotive fusible-link philosophy.
Fusible links do fine for hard faults (over in tens of milliseconds
and relatively low energy). However, like ANL current limiters, they're
even more insensitive to soft faults that can operate for protracted
periods of time and dump megajoules of energy into the surrounding
combustibles.
This is a hypothesis of course but the alternators are generally
hard-wired to the battery with only a fusible link for fault protection.
I've had several wrestling matches with both engineers and regulatory
bureaucrats about the relative safety of conventional fuses, breakers
and limiters for certain applications. AC43-13 states:
11-48. DETERMINATION OF CIRCUIT
BREAKER RATINGS. Circuit protection
devices must be sized to supply open circuit
capability. A circuit breaker must be rated so
that it will open before the current rating of the
wire attached to it is exceeded, or before the
cumulative rating of all loads connected to it
are exceeded, whichever is lowest. A circuit
breaker must always open before any component
downstream can overheat and generate
smoke or fire. Wires must be sized to carry
continuous current in excess of the circuit
protective device rating, including its time current
characteristics, and to avoid excessive
voltage drop. Refer to section 5 for wire rating
methods.
If this is interpreted to be a requirement, then it cannot
be complied with using contemporary I(squared)*R overcurrent
detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat fuses or
ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.
1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!
2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer. Works well in a pinch.
3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins
4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.
All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.
Just my 2 cents an usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
How does one go about using this tool to remove pins? The professional tools I've
(tried to) use are cylindrical. Does one take the flat blade you describe
and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time? How to keep the other
side from springing back?
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: SteinAir, Inc. <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.
1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!
2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer. Works well in a pinch.
3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins
4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.
All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.
Just my 2 cents an usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>How does one go about using this tool to remove pins? The professional
>tools I've (tried to) use are cylindrical. Does one take the flat blade
>you describe and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time? How to
>keep the other side from springing back?
>
>-Bill B
The typical terminal has a barb on the side away
from the spring loaded electrical contact. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_2478_Pins.pdf
When inserted into the housing, the barb engages
a notch on the housing's inside surface as shown in
cross section Z-Z of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_6422.pdf
To extract the pin, a thin rectangular probe of appropriate
dimensions is pushed along side the terminal from the
board-side face such that it depresses the barb and releases
the pin.
Before re-inserting a pin, it's a good idea to spring the barb
outward a tad . . . extracting them often causes the barb to
lay flatter against the terminal and compromises retention.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | fluid level sensor needed |
Hi,
I built a fuel tank gauge based off a 0 ~ 1 " pressure transducer for my
Europa. Although you only have 0 ~ 4 " of head, I would say from my bench
experiments that this device is sensitive enough for your needs.
The sensor was a Honeywell 26PCAFA6D and I amplified its output with a
INA118P instrumentation op amp. It would cost you less than $25 in parts to
experiment with and I am confident that it would work for you.
Regards, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Riggs <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
One end should be cylindrical but the other end should have a side open so you
can slip it over the pin.
How does one go about using this tool to remove pins? The professional tools I've
(tried to) use are cylindrical. Does one take the flat blade you describe and
pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time? How to keep the other side
from springing back?
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: SteinAir, Inc.
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.
1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!
2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer. Works well in a pinch.
3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins
4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.
All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.
Just my 2 cents an usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>
Lynn A. Riggs
riggs_la(at)yahoo.com
St. Paul, MN
BH #656 Kit #22
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
Oh. Never mind :-) I was thinking of the round pins, as in Mate-N -Loc, and Radio
Shack variety Molex connectors. I've never encountered the type you're depicting
here.
If I do, I'll keep that in mind. Meanwhile, I find the commercial extractor tools
for the round-barrel pins are really hard to use and cause profanity ;-)
-BB
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>How does one go about using this tool to remove pins? The professional
>tools I've (tried to) use are cylindrical. Does one take the flat blade
>you describe and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time? How to
>keep the other side from springing back?
>
>-Bill B
The typical terminal has a barb on the side away
from the spring loaded electrical contact. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_2478_Pins.pdf
When inserted into the housing, the barb engages
a notch on the housing's inside surface as shown in
cross section Z-Z of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_6422.pdf
To extract the pin, a thin rectangular probe of appropriate
dimensions is pushed along side the terminal from the
board-side face such that it depresses the barb and releases
the pin.
Before re-inserting a pin, it's a good idea to spring the barb
outward a tad . . . extracting them often causes the barb to
lay flatter against the terminal and compromises retention.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SS firewall penetration hardware |
Is there firesleeve available to work with the Home Depot 1.5" SS grab bar for
roll-your-own firewall penetrations? If so, what "hose size" do I look for to
equal 1.5" ID or OD? I'm getting the feeling after bringing home a 1.5" grab
bar that I should have ordered the 1.25" stuff from McMaster-Carr. Even so,
I'm still not sure what stock # of firesleeve will fit this. Any tips?
Thanks.
I have the itumescent caulk from the Aviation department at Lowe's. That was the
easy part.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: SS firewall penetration |
Hi Bill
I was thinking of using JB Weld, is the fire temperature rating for the
itumescent caulk higher than the 500 degree F. rating for JB Weld?
Thanks,
George in Langley BC
>
>I have the itumescent caulk from the Aviation department at Lowe's. That was
the easy part.
>
>-Bill B
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale: Electric Attitude Gyro |
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
On Ray Allan RCA26AK-4 rebuilt by Kelly Manufacturing Company and under warentee
till Jan 10, 2007. It has 8 degree tilt but no lights. Papers avaialble. $1,200
or best offer.
--------
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12833#12833
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SS firewall penetration |
George,
The firewall sealant should be of a flexible nature, as there is
significant flexing in this area. I doubt that JB weld would be suitable there.
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>Hi Bill
>
> I was thinking of using JB Weld, is the fire temperature rating for the
>itumescent caulk higher than the 500 degree F. rating for JB Weld?
>
>Thanks,
>
>George in Langley BC
>
> >
> >I have the itumescent caulk from the Aviation department at
> Lowe's. That was the easy part.
> >
> >-Bill B
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SS firewall penetration |
>
>
>Hi Bill
>
> I was thinking of using JB Weld, is the fire temperature rating for the
>itumescent caulk higher than the 500 degree F. rating for JB Weld?
Much higher. JB Weld is not rated for effects of a fuel-fed fire.
It's a filled epoxy not a self protecting putty. You can
test it yourself for suitability but it's a lot of work.
I'd recommend you stay with materials designed and tested
to the task.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gilles Tatry" <gilles.tatry(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Temperature compensation, UMA CHT |
Hi Bob and all,
After examining carefully the TC probe sold with the UMA CHT, the situation
appears even worse than I expected. The probe has only 2 ft TC lead wires,
and then copper extension wires. So with my in-line engine, cylinder 2 the
hottest, the "cold" junction will be INSIDE the engine compartment, where
temperature can rise somewhat higher than the 75F the instrument is
calibrated for!
So, I bought TC connectors and extension wires from Omega to move the cold
junction close to the instrument.
Jean-Pierre Castiello, who designed the A320 brakes temp monitoring, is to
craft for me an external compensation box based on the same AD594. Input is
the J extension, output will directly drive the CHT air core movement.
I will let you know the result...
Thanks to all of you for the so precious informations I could gather from
the list!
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I think this means...Fusable links can start a fire before the fuse
blows?....:)
Therein lies the problem with 12V power presumably.
Frank
If this is interpreted to be a requirement, then it cannot
be complied with using contemporary I(squared)*R overcurrent
detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat fuses or
ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You think alternators are safe? |
If a device can get hot enough to ignite itself or its surroundings
without tripping the fuse or whatever overcurrent protection is in use,
then a fire will result. AC or DC makes no difference. The type of
remotely located overcurrent protection fuse/fusiblelink/CB makes no
difference. (Well OK it could make a slight difference in cases where a
fast fuse blows before slower protection but I'm assuming the current is
below what will trigger any overcurrent protection) We size the fuse to
protect the wire but generally have little control over what is in the
device that the wire is connected to. This scenario is more common when
ciruitry is connected in parallel with a single overcurrent protection
device and one branch shorts but not hard enough to blow the fuse. And
of course in some cases all it takes is a wee spark to start a fire.
The next level of remote protection is probably a ground fault device.
Even they only protect against one type of circuit failure but they can
be helpful with some devices that are prone to develop hazardous leakage
current paths to ground.
There is an argument that a shorted stator winding will blow an open
circuit in its diodes and not be a hazard but unfortunately diodes can
also fail shorted. Kind of reminds me of the argument that the field
transistor can't fail shorted but in any case it also seems prudent to
me to keep my OV contactor to enable disconnecting the alternator. If my
suspicions that scenarios like this do actually occur with stators is
correct, then I don't believe an external VR alternator would offer any
additional protection compared to an internal VR unit with this type of
fault.
Ken
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>I think this means...Fusable links can start a fire before the fuse
>blows?....:)
>
>Therein lies the problem with 12V power presumably.
>
>Frank
>
> If this is interpreted to be a requirement, then it cannot
> be complied with using contemporary I(squared)*R overcurrent
> detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat fuses or
> ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: You think alternators are safe? |
>From: <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
>"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>Subject: You think alternators are safe?
No! Take them out.
You are right you should not have an alternator or battery they
are dangerous. Get a glider or an ultralight with a pull start.
I think its mostly Fords Frank.
>Afternoon all, One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an
>Incident commander for a large blue chip wafer fab plant.
You get to sleep and get paid. America is wonderful.
>Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our
>employee parking lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the
>employee was looking for his spot.
Looked it up did not make the web News. I guess Fords
catching on fire is not news; it happens so much.
>Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by
>the pager going off saying the car was on fire. And had
>involved 4 other vehicles. By the time the Fire Department
>got there the thing was fully engulfed with 20 foot
>flames...Fortunately the gas tank was not involved.
Fords catching on fire, consumer complaints, safety alerts,
service bulletins and recalls and lawsuits are common.
http://www.fordfires.com/
http://www.interfire.org/res_file/fseab_tv.asp
http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-fire.htm
http://www.wesh.com/news/4606995/detail.html
>This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
>alternator but the battery was completely melted in what
>looks like feeding an internal short on the alternator.
Here is a partial list of Ford electrical fire recalls:
Make: FORD
Model: WINDSTAR
Year: 1995
Recall Number: 94V223000
Summary: THE ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WIRE WAS
NOT CONNECTED TIGHTLY TO THE POWER
DISTRIBUTION BOX.
Consequence:
THIS CAN RESULT IN OVERHEATING OF THE
CONNECTION AND A POSSIBLE VEHICLE **FIRE**.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND TIGHTEN THE
CONNECTION. VEHICLES WITH VISIBLE DAMAGE TO
THE PLASTIC POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX HOUSING
WILL HAVE THE UNDERHOOD HARNESS, INCLUDING
THE POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX, REPLACED.
Make/Model: 1999 Mercury Cougar
Recall ID from NHTSA: 01V031000;
Recall Date: 02/06/2001
Component: ELECTRICAL BATTERY:CABLES
Potential Units Affected: 120000
Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER
VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.5L V6 ENGINES. THE
BATTERY CABLE WAS MISROUTED AND ITS
ATTACHMENT TO THE ALTERNATOR CABLE WAS
UNDER-TORQUED. IF MISROUTED, THE CABLE COULD
CONTACT THE POWER STEERING LINE AND THE
INSULATION COULD WEAR, RESULTING IN AN
ELECTRICAL SHORT.
Defect Consequence: THE SHORT COULD POTENTIALLY
RESULT IN A **FIRE**, STALLING, OR A NO-START
CONDITION.
Electrical/ **Fires**:
Tow package relay short, 60,000 1986-88 Aerostar (88V-091);
Power seat short, 90,000 1986 Aerostar (88V-145);
Alternator output wire short 112,000 1995 Windstar (94V-223);
Ignition switch short, 200,000+ 1988-91 Aerostar - (96V-071);
Fuel pump wiring harness short 1994-95 Aerostar (99V-028);
Accessory power feed circuit short 757,000 1992-97 Aerostar
(99V-029).
>Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way
>to disconnect the alt"!!!
Me to. That is what the BIG pull-able CB on my panel is for.
Have a way to Pull a CB to disconnect the alternator.
Idiot light comes on Pull CB and land (or park)
Lesson learned have tight connections
Don't use Ford parts
>Frank, Zodiac flying 400 hours,
>RV7a finishing up prior to paint
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
--------------------------------
Is there firesleeve available to work with the Home Depot 1.5" SS grab
bar for roll-your-own firewall penetrations? If so, what "hose size" do
I look for to equal 1.5" ID or OD? I'm getting the feeling after
bringing home a 1.5" grab bar that I should have ordered the 1.25" stuff
from McMaster-Carr. Even so, I'm still not sure what stock # of
firesleeve will fit this. Any tips? Thanks. I have the itumescent caulk
from the Aviation department at Lowe's. That was the easy part.
-Bill B
--------------------------------
Bill,
Check out this website: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/aero6.htm
They have ID's listed up to 1.5"
Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SS firewall penetration |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
--------------------------------
Is there firesleeve available to work with the Home Depot 1.5" SS grab
bar for roll-your-own firewall penetrations? If so, what "hose size" do
I look for to equal 1.5" ID or OD? I'm getting the feeling after
bringing home a 1.5" grab bar that I should have ordered the 1.25" stuff
from McMaster-Carr. Even so, I'm still not sure what stock # of
firesleeve will fit this. Any tips? Thanks. I have the itumescent caulk
from the Aviation department at Lowe's. That was the easy part.
-Bill B
--------------------------------
Bill,
Check out this website: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/aero6.htm
They have ID's listed up to 1.5"
Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | SS firewall penetration hardware |
_______________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________
>>
>Is there firesleeve available to work with the Home Depot 1.5" SS grab bar for
>roll-your-own firewall penetrations? If so, what "hose size" do I look for to
>equal 1.5" ID or OD? I'm getting the feeling after bringing home a 1.5" grab
>bar that I should have ordered the 1.25" stuff from McMaster-Carr. Even so,
>I'm still not sure what stock # of firesleeve will fit this. Any tips?
>
>Thanks.
>
>I have the itumescent caulk from the Aviation department at Lowe's. That was
the
>easy part.
>
>-Bill B
>
Hi Bill-
There is firesleeve available from Earl's Performance plumbing. They have a web
site, but you might be better served by calling them and speaking directly with
them. I'm on the road and will be for another 9 days (remind me- is this
part of the glomour or the glory of aviation?) so I can't get you better info
just now. Hope this helps some. I used the same technique for FW penetration
and am very happy with the outcome.
Glen Matejcek
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
| From: | "Goguen, Jon" <Jon.Goguen(at)umassmed.edu> |
Bob,
Just to clarify. Scott's original question concerned Z-13/8. If he were to use
the BC-1 regulator for his main alternator rather than the specfied generic
Ford, would he avoid OV cross-talk with an SD-8 using the standard OV protection
scheme?
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Sent: Thu 2/16/2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once?
>
>Scott,
>
>Unless special provisions are made, an over voltage condition on one
>alternator would trigger the over voltage protection on both.
>
>Jon
I designed the SB-1 alternator for B&C such that it
KNOWS which of the two alternators is causing the OV
condition. An OV condition on the main alternator will
not trip the OV protection in the standby alternator
when wired per Z-12.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
| From: | "Goguen, Jon" <Jon.Goguen(at)umassmed.edu> |
Yes, they're fast-on style. They fit the high-current terminals on 70 amp automotive
relays.
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls,
III
Sent: Thu 2/16/2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals
>
>Hi All,
>
>Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
>terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males. These are the only 0.375
>quick connect females I have been able to find. I could use closed
>barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
>get them.
Are these a "fast-on" style connector? For 6AWG wire?
Where do you plan to use them?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Wire label printers |
I don't think this has been noted on this list before. Dymo has some
hand-held printers that work with wiring labels for under $100 now. Here is
a link to the pdf file on one of the printers:
http://dymo.com/img/compel/JaMWjqkn1vU_tszsSsYIER1uURG4VVCg.pdf
This is a link to their website for the $50 printer that will do wiring
labels:
http://dymo.com/enUS/Products/RhinoPRO_1000.html
Terry
RV-8A finishing?
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: You think alternators are safe? |
Let it be known that it's not standard practice for any automotive
manufacturer to protect the alt charging lead or the starter supply wire.
Well, I'm sure there are a "few" exceptions, but I've been contracted to
restore more than a few electrical fireballs. Most recently a 2002 Lexus
gs430 almost met its end when the 4ga starter supply wire met the exhaust
manifold and began to discharge the battery at an accelerated pace. The
braided ground to the engine failed, then the alternate ground paths had to
carry the heavy load. Primarily sensor grounds to the ecm, which then begin
to overheat within the larger harnesses and begin to fuse to other
wires/circuits which propagate the process until either the battery melts
internally and goes critical or discharges.
I've measured inrush currents to some gm starters at over 230 amp which
would make fusing difficult, perhaps they figure why bother??
Alternators typically rated at 100 or 120 amp would be relatively easy to
fuse, but I don't know why they aren't. perhaps the risks that the
alternator melts down internally or the 8ga feed to the batt becomes
compromised is less than the risk that the fuse inline may false and require
a service dept visit.
Just .02
Steven dinieri
Rv221rv
>"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>Subject: You think alternators are safe?
No! Take them out.
You are right you should not have an alternator or battery they
are dangerous. Get a glider or an ultralight with a pull start.
I think its mostly Fords Frank.
>Afternoon all, One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an
>Incident commander for a large blue chip wafer fab plant.
You get to sleep and get paid. America is wonderful.
>Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our
>employee parking lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the
>employee was looking for his spot.
Looked it up did not make the web News. I guess Fords
catching on fire is not news; it happens so much.
>Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by
>the pager going off saying the car was on fire. And had
>involved 4 other vehicles. By the time the Fire Department
>got there the thing was fully engulfed with 20 foot
>flames...Fortunately the gas tank was not involved.
Fords catching on fire, consumer complaints, safety alerts,
service bulletins and recalls and lawsuits are common.
http://www.fordfires.com/
http://www.interfire.org/res_file/fseab_tv.asp
http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-fire.htm
http://www.wesh.com/news/4606995/detail.html
>This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
>alternator but the battery was completely melted in what
>looks like feeding an internal short on the alternator.
Here is a partial list of Ford electrical fire recalls:
Make: FORD
Model: WINDSTAR
Year: 1995
Recall Number: 94V223000
Summary: THE ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WIRE WAS
NOT CONNECTED TIGHTLY TO THE POWER
DISTRIBUTION BOX.
Consequence:
THIS CAN RESULT IN OVERHEATING OF THE
CONNECTION AND A POSSIBLE VEHICLE **FIRE**.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND TIGHTEN THE
CONNECTION. VEHICLES WITH VISIBLE DAMAGE TO
THE PLASTIC POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX HOUSING
WILL HAVE THE UNDERHOOD HARNESS, INCLUDING
THE POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX, REPLACED.
Make/Model: 1999 Mercury Cougar
Recall ID from NHTSA: 01V031000;
Recall Date: 02/06/2001
Component: ELECTRICAL BATTERY:CABLES
Potential Units Affected: 120000
Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER
VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.5L V6 ENGINES. THE
BATTERY CABLE WAS MISROUTED AND ITS
ATTACHMENT TO THE ALTERNATOR CABLE WAS
UNDER-TORQUED. IF MISROUTED, THE CABLE COULD
CONTACT THE POWER STEERING LINE AND THE
INSULATION COULD WEAR, RESULTING IN AN
ELECTRICAL SHORT.
Defect Consequence: THE SHORT COULD POTENTIALLY
RESULT IN A **FIRE**, STALLING, OR A NO-START
CONDITION.
Electrical/ **Fires**:
Tow package relay short, 60,000 1986-88 Aerostar (88V-091);
Power seat short, 90,000 1986 Aerostar (88V-145);
Alternator output wire short 112,000 1995 Windstar (94V-223);
Ignition switch short, 200,000+ 1988-91 Aerostar - (96V-071);
Fuel pump wiring harness short 1994-95 Aerostar (99V-028);
Accessory power feed circuit short 757,000 1992-97 Aerostar
(99V-029).
>Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way
>to disconnect the alt"!!!
Me to. That is what the BIG pull-able CB on my panel is for.
Have a way to Pull a CB to disconnect the alternator.
Idiot light comes on Pull CB and land (or park)
Lesson learned have tight connections
Don't use Ford parts
>Frank, Zodiac flying 400 hours,
>RV7a finishing up prior to paint
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
Fixed this tonight and posting solution for the archives in case others run into
similar problems.
It was a manufacturing defect but the fix was quick and easy, and I didn't want
to wait for shipping a replacement even if Van's was willing to exchange it.
Was also a good learning experience as I realized in troubleshooting this that
these simple dimmer circuits could easily be built with just a few dollars worth
of parts.
Took the ckt board out of the plane and hooked it up on workbench. Only parts
on the ckt board are a terminal block, a single 100 ohm resister, and a heat
sink mounted LM317 voltage regulator. Looked up a LM317 data sheet on-line to
figure out what I should see at which pins.
Turns out, the LM317 output pin was putting out the correct output voltage, varying
from 2.5 V to (batt volt - 2.5) V, but I wasn't getting that voltage at the
terminal block the output/load wire connects to. In looking closer, the through-board
pin for the output terminal had a bad solder joint. Pin stuck through
the board with just a little solder on top of the pin but no connection to
the pad/board.
A little touch up with the soldering iron fixed the problem and after re-installing,
it works as designed.
One thing I don't like about these boards is the terminal block connecting method
- just stick a wire into the block and mash the wire down with the little screw.
Seems like kind of a crude/weak method after all the crimped and soldered
connecters we so carefully put together....
Chris Hand
RV-6A, finishing stages....
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris & Kellie Hand
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: dimmer ckt from Van's
I hooked up my instrument lights to the Van's dimmer ckt I installed and powered
things up. Power distribution is working and I have battery voltage at the
+12V terminal screw on the dimmer board. Also show good ground on the dimmer
board's ground terminal screw. Potentiometer is working properly and connected
to the right terminals on the board.
Output I'm getting at the Load terminal on the dimmer board varies from 0 to
about 6 mV rather than the expected 2.5 V up to battery voltage.
The dimmer ckt is new out of the box, but I bought it well over a year ago and
didn't test it prior to now. Has anybody experienced similar issues with the
Van's board, and are there any suggestions on how to fix it without having to
buy a new one?
If I give up on the dimmer ckt from Van's, I need to find something else with
a poteniometer/dimmer knob the same size or larger since I already have the current
one installed in the panel.
Thanks for any help or advice you can give me.
Chris Hand
RV-6A, finishing stages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XCOM radio and multiple input sources |
Cc: Randy Pflanzer , Mark Koenig
Dear Aeroelectric list members.
Attached is communication from me regarding the XCOM and how best to wire it
into a somewhat robust system. Could anyone comment on the problem we are facing
in attempting to properly utilize the rest of the wauipment in the panel with
this radio?
Ron Patterson
Michael Coates wrote:
Hello Ron, thank you for your e-mail.
What you are asking is well beyond the ability of the XCOM radio, in fact I doubt
you could find any audio panels that would prioritise incoming signals from
six or seven imputs. You can however bundle all the inputs together by connecting
all the earth's to one point and fitting a 4700 ohm resistor into the positive
line from each source. This would stop each of the units trying to blow
up the other unit, you would get everything coming in through the audio source
together and the best of my knowledge there is no easy way to prioritise or mute
these imputs other than turning the device off.
For example if you are listening to XM radio and didn't want to listen to your
ipod then it would simply turn the ipod music off, if the XM radio was too loud
then you would simply adjust the volume level on the XM radio device. It may
be worth putting your inquiry onto one of the Avionics newsgroups where there
are smarter people on me that may be able to help you with prioritising imputs.
If there is anything else I can help you with please do not hesitate to contact
me again. Kind regards Michael
Ron Patterson wrote:
Hello Michael,
Well, I'm into wiring up my RV-4 now and have run into some concrns of how to
integrate the other audio producing avionics into the XCOM intercom. I'd like
to ask some questions if I could so I get this right.
As far as I can tell, there is only one "input" ...Music Audio. Is this so? is
it an input and not an output source?
Should I just wire everything (the Dynon AOA warning, the GPS 396 terrain warning
and XM radio, the DVR 3000i audio checklist and recorder, the Narco NAV 122
with marker beacon and glideslope, plus my IPod) all into this one source???
Wouldn't I need some way to prioritize what audio takes precedence if there are
mult iple signals coming in? Should I have a switch to select each unit individually
as I need it?
I appreciate your help and ideas in working this out.
Ron Patterson
Michael Coates wrote:
What a load of crap ??? Where do some of these guys get this info ?? If there
is a transmission coming in you can hear that and also have full intercom
usage.... I have only ever once seen a system that cuts out the intercom in
an old sigtronics and it was terrible, in busy airspace you could never talk.
You DONT need another intercom, you WONT have any problems hearing each other when
there is a transmission breaking the radios squelch.... sometimes i wonder
if you should really trust the wiring of your plane to these guys ???
Sounds like he just wants to sell you another intercom ??
Thanks Michael
Ron Patterson wrote:
Hello Michael,
You may recall I bought an XCOM from you at OSH this past month. I'm asking Approach
Systems to wire up my panel. Cade at AS tells me that radios with an internal
intercom require a switch to use the intercom, and that if the intercom
is in use, no transmissions are heard by the pilot and co-pilot. This doesn't
sound correct based on our discussions, but I'm confused. Could you advise us
both?
Thanks
Ron Patterson
XCOM (planned intercom here)
Digitak
Altrak
Garmin 296
Flightcom DVR 300i
Dynon D10A with encoder
MicroAir 2000 SFL Transponder
***no seperate intercom planned....Cade advises to use a seperate intercom or
cope with limitation listed above****
Michael Coates wrote:
hello ron, yes we are bringing radios etc... Please catch up with us there,
Thanks.
Ron Patterson wrote:
Michael,
Will you be bringing some of the radios and intercoms to OSH this year? I was
hoping to buy direct from you at the show.
Ron
:
Hello from LAX... probably in about 2 weeks from now, they
are ahead of schedule at the moment. Thanks Michael
---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Ron Patterson
>Subject: Re: Thank you for your valued order
>To: Michael Coates
>
> Michael,
>
> I would like to go forward with my order for the
> XCOM.
>
> when will you be shipping?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Patterson
>
> 20885 Redwood Road #405
>
> Castro Valley, CA 94546 USA
-- With regards, Michael Coates Company Director X-Air Australia Gold Coast, Australia. mailto:mcoates@mcp.com.au Main Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au Sting Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sti ng X-Air Web Site: http://www.xair.com.au XCOM Web Site: http://www.xcom760.com Sinus Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sinus Galaxy Web Site: http://www.galaxysky.cz "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
-- With regards, Michael Coates Company Director X-Air Australia Gold Coast, Australia. mailto:mcoates@mcp.com.au Main Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au Sting Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sting X-Air Web Site: http://www.xair.com.au XCOM Web Site: http://www.xcom760.com Sinus Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sinus Galaxy Web Site: http://www.galaxysky.cz "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
-- With regards, Michael Coates Company Director X-Air Australia Gold Coast, Australia. mailto:mcoates@mcp.com.au Main Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au Sting Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sting X-Air Web Site: http://www.xair.com.au XCOM Web Site: http://www.xcom760.com Sinus Web Site: http://www.mcp.com.au/sinus Galaxy Web Site: http://www.galaxysky.cz "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/17/06 |
I think you are over-reacting to the cold junction thing. True, for
instrumentation-grade measurements (temperature accuracy to a
fraction of a degree) it is a good thing to have no metal changes in
the circuit all the way back to the cold junction. However, that
would mean that all the connector terminals would also have to be
made from like materials. As long as both wires make the transition
to another metal at the same temperature the measurement error will
be small, like a few degrees. Is the extra accuracy worth the
effort? The commercial systems of which I am familiar use copper
wire for interconnects. If that's not true I still have time to
replace all the copper in my system...
Gary Casey
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> After examining carefully the TC probe sold with the UMA CHT, the
> situation
> appears even worse than I expected. The probe has only 2 ft TC
> lead wires,
> and then copper extension wires. So with my in-line engine,
> cylinder 2 the
> hottest, the "cold" junction will be INSIDE the engine compartment,
> where
> temperature can rise somewhat higher than the 75F the instrument is
> calibrated for!
>
> So, I bought TC connectors and extension wires from Omega to move
> the cold
> junction close to the instrument.
> Jean-Pierre Castiello, who designed the A320 brakes temp
> monitoring, is to
> craft for me an external compensation box based on the same AD594.
> Input is
> the J extension, output will directly drive the CHT air core movement.
>
> I will let you know the result...
>
> Thanks to all of you for the so precious informations I could
> gather from
> the list!
>
> Gilles
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> You think alternators are safe? |
| Subject: | Re: Fused Automotive alternators was Re: You think |
alternators are safe?
At 07:49 PM 2/17/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>Let it be known that it's not standard practice for any automotive
>manufacturer to protect the alt charging lead or the starter supply wire.
>Well, I'm sure there are a "few" exceptions, but I've been contracted to
>restore more than a few electrical fireballs. Most recently a 2002 Lexus
>gs430 almost met its end when the 4ga starter supply wire met the exhaust
>manifold and began to discharge the battery at an accelerated pace. The
>braided ground to the engine failed, then the alternate ground paths had to
>carry the heavy load. Primarily sensor grounds to the ecm, which then begin
>to overheat within the larger harnesses and begin to fuse to other
>wires/circuits which propagate the process until either the battery melts
>internally and goes critical or discharges.
>I've measured inrush currents to some gm starters at over 230 amp which
>would make fusing difficult, perhaps they figure why bother??
>Alternators typically rated at 100 or 120 amp would be relatively easy to
>fuse, but I don't know why they aren't. perhaps the risks that the
>alternator melts down internally or the 8ga feed to the batt becomes
>compromised is less than the risk that the fuse inline may false and require
>a service dept visit.
>
>Just .02
>
>Steven dinieri
>Rv221rv
Steve,
I've noted that Ford Expeditions come with a Littelfuse Maxifuse in
the alternator output circuit. It's behind a plastic cover on the
passenger's side of the firewall.
Charlie Kuss
PS Another Ford "fire starter" was their brake fluid pressure sensor
(on the master cylinder) for 1984 to 2000 vehicles. This sensor was
wired battery direct, instead of ignition hot. They can fail at any
time and there have been dozens of auto (and even garage) fires
caused by this. I had one fail will I was working on an Expedition.
It burned the feed wire and scared the hell out me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | thermocouple wiring |
IF I understand this correctly, I would partly agree with both of you
Gary and Gilles.
I think it is fine to use almost any kind of connector to go from TC
wire to TC wire as long as all parts of the connector are about the same
temperature. So it is fine to use a connector that is entirely forward
of the firewall or entirely behind the firewall and there is no real
need for expensive TC rated connectors. Avoid using a connector as a
firewall pass through as the temperature will be different on each side.
TC extension wire is cheap enough ( I seem to recall $0.65 per foot for
the twisted pair) that I avoided any TC wire to copper wire transitions
but I do have TC wire to TC wire push together spade PIDG joints forward
of the firewall. This is consistant with the recommendations for wiring
the Grand Rapids EIS engine monitor. TC wire is almost certainly cheaper
and easier to install than any kind of extra junction compensation box.
As long as all parts of the transition from TC wire to a connector and
back to TC wire are at the same temperature, we will be fine.
Ken
Gary Casey wrote:
>
>I think you are over-reacting to the cold junction thing. True, for
>instrumentation-grade measurements (temperature accuracy to a
>fraction of a degree) it is a good thing to have no metal changes in
>the circuit all the way back to the cold junction. However, that
>would mean that all the connector terminals would also have to be
>made from like materials. As long as both wires make the transition
>to another metal at the same temperature the measurement error will
>be small, like a few degrees. Is the extra accuracy worth the
>effort? The commercial systems of which I am familiar use copper
>wire for interconnects. If that's not true I still have time to
>replace all the copper in my system...
>Gary Casey
>
>
>
>>Hi Bob and all,
>>
>>After examining carefully the TC probe sold with the UMA CHT, the
>>situation
>>appears even worse than I expected. The probe has only 2 ft TC
>>lead wires,
>>and then copper extension wires. So with my in-line engine,
>>cylinder 2 the
>>hottest, the "cold" junction will be INSIDE the engine compartment,
>>where
>>temperature can rise somewhat higher than the 75F the instrument is
>>calibrated for!
>>
>>So, I bought TC connectors and extension wires from Omega to move
>>the cold
>>junction close to the instrument.
>>Jean-Pierre Castiello, who designed the A320 brakes temp
>>monitoring, is to
>>craft for me an external compensation box based on the same AD594.
>>Input is
>>the J extension, output will directly drive the CHT air core movement.
>>
>>I will let you know the result...
>>
>>Thanks to all of you for the so precious informations I could
>>gather from
>>the list!
>>
>>Gilles
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fused Automotive alternators was Re: You think |
alternators are safe?
Maybe the warnings about always disconnecting the negative battery lead is a
good one. The bad thing about it is on some vehicles you can lose memory on
some devices. My Boxster for example loses the radio security code and
makes the radio silent. Only way to fix it is to input the radio code,
which in my case meant a visit to the local Porsche dealer.
Indiana Larry
> You think alternators are safe?
>
> At 07:49 PM 2/17/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>
>
> Charlie Kuss
> PS Another Ford "fire starter" was their brake fluid pressure sensor
> (on the master cylinder) for 1984 to 2000 vehicles. This sensor was
> wired battery direct, instead of ignition hot. They can fail at any
> time and there have been dozens of auto (and even garage) fires
> caused by this. I had one fail will I was working on an Expedition.
> It burned the feed wire and scared the hell out me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
| Subject: | KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram |
Does anybody have a pinout guide or installation diagram for the Bendix/King (Honeywell)
KLN35A GPS? Bob does not have one on his website. I want to wire-up
a RS232 port so I can upload database updates. I don't have a panel mount plug
the factory typically provides with the unit so I want to roll my own.
Thanks,
Michael H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Prather <mprather(at)spro.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Hello Mr Lee,
I know it's probably a long shot, but is there any chance that the
failed alternator/regulator could be recovered for further examination?
I'd pay shipping to have it sent to someone for failure analysis.
I'll extend this offer to anyone else that has an alternator/regulator
failure on an IR system.
Regards,
Matt-
bob(at)flyboybob.com wrote:
>
>Yesterday morning on the way to church I noticed the alternator idiot light
>come on. A quick check of the volt meter indicated 18 volts. I was driving
>my son's 1990 Ford F-150 with an IR alternator. It took me about thirty
>seconds to figure out what to do. There was not enough time left before
>church to make a forced landing so I kept flying. I started turning on
>anything electrical to absorb the extra electrons that were smashing the
>battery. When I remembered the off road driving lights my son recently
>installed and turned them on I was down to 13 volts. The voltage would
>varry with RPM and as long as I kept everything on and the RPM below 1500 I
>could keep the voltage under 14 volts. As the truck accelerated away from a
>stop and the transmission was in lower gears the idiot light would come on
>each time the voltage was above 16 volts which happened around 2000 RPM.
>Once in high gear the RPM would settle around 1200 and the voltage would be
>around 13 volts.
>
>In thirty years of driving I would guess that I have had five or six
>alternator failures. This is the first time it has been a high voltage
>failure. All of the other times it has been low output failures.
>
>Conclusions:
> 1. some IR alternators out there will detect an overvoltage event (turn
>on the idiot light) and yet do nothing about it (continue to produce 18
>volts).
> 2. one event does not make conclusive scinece
> 3. a check list for OV events would have solved this problem quicker - I
>need a plan for low frequency failures with simple solutions.
> 4. z-13 would have handled this problem in my airplane as the main
>alternator would have tripped the OV module; the low voltage tone in my
>earphones would alert me to turn on the standby alternator and flight would
>have continued to destination.
> 5. what I learned from conclusions 1, 3, and 4 is worth the risk of
>starting another IR alternator e-mail flood.
> 6. I'm glad I removed the IR regulator from my plane's alternator and
>replaced it with an external unit and OV module.
>
>Just remember, everything I say could be wrong - or right?
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob Lee
>KR2 N52BL
>91% done only 63% to go!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
>
>
>I think this means...Fusable links can start a fire before the fuse
>blows?....:)
>
>Therein lies the problem with 12V power presumably.
>
>Frank
>
> If this is interpreted to be a requirement, then it cannot
> be complied with using contemporary I(squared)*R overcurrent
> detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat fuses or
> ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.
>
> Bob . . .
This isn't a system voltage or DC versus AC issue. This is
a hard fact of physics in all power systems. The paragraph
I cited from AC43-13 completely ignores the "soft fault"
phenomenon that may occur at any voltage level, any current
level and in AC or DC systems.
Example: A C-90 on short final to Clovis NM about 1990 was
suddenly stricken with complete disconnect of control in pitch.
Elevator forces in wheel went to zero. The pilots did a go around
and managed to land safely with power and pitch trim.
A teardown revealed a mis-positioned wire bundle under the
floorboards where a 40A protected wire for co-pilot's windshield
heat had had been rubbing against the elevator cable for some
period of time.
No smoke, no fire, no flickers in the electrical system, no
trips of the 40A breaker. Over the pre-failure interval,
megajoules of energy were released in the erosion of steel
wires (the copper wire was in pretty good shape . . . this
demonstrates why layers of copper are included in the design
of safes . . . nearly impossible to penetrate with a cutting
torch).
In other instances, it's easy to imagine a 10-cent resistor
burning up in a radio and making lots of nasty smells in the
cockpit while failing to open a 5A fuse that protects the
feed wire to the failed device.
Bottom line is that ALL thermally actuated protective devices
(fuses, heater actuated breakers, current limiters, fusible
links) and even magnetic breakers are incapable of reacting to
the low-rate, long-duration soft faults that are exemplified
by the two scenarios I offered above. This illustrates the silliness
of any designer (or bureaucrat) who believes that AC43-13/11-48
can be complied with.
Since the Swiss Air 111 accident, there has been
a lot work to develop miniature breakers fitted with little
digital signal processing receivers designed to listen for
and react to unique signal characteristics of a low current
electrical arc. These probably won't keep 10-cent resistors
from smoking but they WOULD have prevented damage to the
C-90's elevator cable and probably would have prevented the
Swiss Air 111 incident.
It's the system designer's goal to UNDERSTAND the technology
behind products he/she includes in the system and in particular,
limits that are not articulated in spec sheets.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
I am looking for a DPDT On-On-On switch, like the 2-10 from B&C but in
miniature or sub-miniature version.
Does anybody know a source for it ?
Thanks
Carlos
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!? I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Sultzbach <endspeed(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
Hi Bob,
Are the miniature DSP circuit breakers available at
this time and how much would you expect them to cost?
Bob Sultzbach
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> Frank George (Corvallis)"
> >
> >
> >I think this means...Fusable links can start a fire
> before the fuse
> >blows?....:)
> >
> >Therein lies the problem with 12V power presumably.
> >
> >Frank
> >
> > If this is interpreted to be a requirement,
> then it cannot
> > be complied with using contemporary
> I(squared)*R overcurrent
> > detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat
> fuses or
> > ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
> This isn't a system voltage or DC versus AC
> issue. This is
> a hard fact of physics in all power systems.
> The paragraph
> I cited from AC43-13 completely ignores the
> "soft fault"
> phenomenon that may occur at any voltage level,
> any current
> level and in AC or DC systems.
>
> Example: A C-90 on short final to Clovis NM
> about 1990 was
> suddenly stricken with complete disconnect of
> control in pitch.
> Elevator forces in wheel went to zero. The
> pilots did a go around
> and managed to land safely with power and pitch
> trim.
>
> A teardown revealed a mis-positioned wire
> bundle under the
> floorboards where a 40A protected wire for
> co-pilot's windshield
> heat had had been rubbing against the elevator
> cable for some
> period of time.
>
> No smoke, no fire, no flickers in the
> electrical system, no
> trips of the 40A breaker. Over the pre-failure
> interval,
> megajoules of energy were released in the
> erosion of steel
> wires (the copper wire was in pretty good shape
> . . . this
> demonstrates why layers of copper are included
> in the design
> of safes . . . nearly impossible to penetrate
> with a cutting
> torch).
>
> In other instances, it's easy to imagine a
> 10-cent resistor
> burning up in a radio and making lots of nasty
> smells in the
> cockpit while failing to open a 5A fuse that
> protects the
> feed wire to the failed device.
>
> Bottom line is that ALL thermally actuated
> protective devices
> (fuses, heater actuated breakers, current
> limiters, fusible
> links) and even magnetic breakers are incapable
> of reacting to
> the low-rate, long-duration soft faults that
> are exemplified
> by the two scenarios I offered above. This
> illustrates the silliness
> of any designer (or bureaucrat) who believes
> that AC43-13/11-48
> can be complied with.
>
> Since the Swiss Air 111 accident, there has
> been
> a lot work to develop miniature breakers fitted
> with little
> digital signal processing receivers designed to
> listen for
> and react to unique signal characteristics of a
> low current
> electrical arc. These probably won't keep
> 10-cent resistors
> from smoking but they WOULD have prevented
> damage to the
> C-90's elevator cable and probably would have
> prevented the
> Swiss Air 111 incident.
>
> It's the system designer's goal to UNDERSTAND
> the technology
> behind products he/she includes in the system
> and in particular,
> limits that are not articulated in spec sheets.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Matt Prather wrote:
"... is there any chance that the
failed alternator/regulator could be recovered for further examination?"
As a student of the AeroElectirc Connection, I know that the repeatable
experiment and it's resulting data is the only way to understanding.
Unfortunately I have misplaced my DVM and have not been able to find it.
The truck is parked in the barn waiting for me to fix it. Until I can find
my DVM and do some experiments I'm happy to let it sit there.
I will supply feedback when it is available. As far as testing the
alternator, it depends the core charge associated with the replacement.
Regards,
Bob Lee
KR2 N52BL
91% done only 63% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Special switch |
>
>
>I am looking for a DPDT On-On-On switch, like the 2-10 from B&C but in
>miniature or sub-miniature version.
>Does anybody know a source for it ?
Sure. This would be a C&K 7211SYZQE available from Digikey.
The descriptors on page
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1385.pdf
are correct. Descriptors in the order building page
at
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=15385&Site=US&Cat=34407579
are hosed up. It doesn't have and LED, is not DP4T,
doesn't mount in a 15 x 5.5 mm hole, not rated for 582 Amps
and is not an On-Off-On switch . . . other than all
that confusion, the part number is correct for a DP3T,
On-On-On progressive transfer switch. You can confirm this
from the C&K catalog second illustration from the top on
page 2 of:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/C%26K%20Components/Web%20Data/7000%20Series.pdf
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Prather <mprather(at)spro.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator |
Great!
I am interested to hear what you find.
I'll cover the core charge if need be.
Regards,
Matt-
bob(at)flyboybob.com wrote:
>
>Matt Prather wrote:
>
>"... is there any chance that the
>failed alternator/regulator could be recovered for further examination?"
>
>As a student of the AeroElectirc Connection, I know that the repeatable
>experiment and it's resulting data is the only way to understanding.
>Unfortunately I have misplaced my DVM and have not been able to find it.
>The truck is parked in the barn waiting for me to fix it. Until I can find
>my DVM and do some experiments I'm happy to let it sit there.
>
>I will supply feedback when it is available. As far as testing the
>alternator, it depends the core charge associated with the replacement.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob Lee
>KR2 N52BL
>91% done only 63% to go!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
> A teardown revealed a mis-positioned wire bundle under the
> floorboards where a 40A protected wire for co-pilot's windshield
> heat had had been rubbing against the elevator cable for some
> period of time.
>
> No smoke, no fire, no flickers in the electrical system, no
> trips of the 40A breaker.
Allow me to publicly display my ignorance.....isn't there some form of
GFI that would sense the difference between the hot and ground
and trip the circuit? I know the stated standard for UL is 5ma (like
that applies here!) so that wouldn't work but, say, some larger level
of leakage detection? Or would this be a trippin' son-of-a-gun with all
the impulse loads we generate?
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram |
> Does anybody have a pinout guide or installation diagram for the
> Bendix/King (Honeywell) KLN35A GPS? Bob does not have one
on his
> website. I want to wire-up a RS232 port so I can upload database
> updates. I don't have a panel mount plug the factory typically
> provides with the unit so I want to roll my own.
Attached is a copy of the sheet they sent to me for my KLN90. Has
the 135A on it as well.....Here ya go!
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
---- File information -----------
File: Gps Dataloader cable.tif
Date: 11 Aug 2004, 22:12
Size: 14880 bytes.
Type: Unknown
Mr. Baker,
The jack that we use is provided in the installation kit for the KLN 90's. The
part number for the Nexus jack is
033-00230-0000. It is a Nexus jack, like what is used in the military style microphones.
Our cable we offer has a
Nexus plug on one end and a 9 pin serial connector on the other. The part number
of the cable is 050-03213-0000.
Attached is the drawing for the cable and jack.
The cable can be ordered from Wingman Services at 800-247-0230.
-----Original Message-----
From: Turner, Marti On Behalf Of BendixKingCSS
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:55 PM
Subject: FW: KLN90 data loader port.....
Can you please respond to this customer.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Baker [mailto:jlbaker(at)telepath.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: KLN90 data loader port.....
Which pins control the data loader port (data IN/OUT/GND) and
what is the typical port jack used?
Thanks,
Jim Baker
492TC
580-788-2779
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram |
Thanks for the diagram Jim! It's very helpful. ...now the plot thickens
with two questions from the village idiot:
1.) Your diagram shows the KLN35A with a "P1" connector. I believe P1
connector has pins 1-22 on one row and pins A-Z on the other. I believe my
unit has a P4001 connector with pins 1-15 on one row and pins A-S on the
other. Are my assumptions are correct and if so, are you aware of a similar
drawing showing the KLN35A with a P4001 connector?
2.) How are the alphabetic rows on the connectors arranged since they don't
line up with their order from their numbered counterparts? For example, on
the P1, why are pins 22 and Z adjacent instead of 22 and V? On the P4001,
pins 15 and S are adjacent instead of 15 and O? Make sense?
Thanks,
Michael H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram
>> Does anybody have a pinout guide or installation diagram for the
>> Bendix/King (Honeywell) KLN35A GPS? Bob does not have one
> on his
>> website. I want to wire-up a RS232 port so I can upload database
>> updates. I don't have a panel mount plug the factory typically
>> provides with the unit so I want to roll my own.
>
> Attached is a copy of the sheet they sent to me for my KLN90. Has
> the 135A on it as well.....Here ya go!
>
>
> Jim Baker
> 580.788.2779
> '71 SV, 492TC
> Elmore City, OK
>
>
> The following section of this message contains a file attachment
> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
> ---- File information -----------
> File: Gps Dataloader cable.tif
> Date: 11 Aug 2004, 22:12
> Size: 14880 bytes.
> Type: Unknown
>
> Mr. Baker,
> The jack that we use is provided in the installation kit for the KLN 90's.
> The part number for the Nexus jack is
> 033-00230-0000. It is a Nexus jack, like what is used in the military
> style microphones. Our cable we offer has a
> Nexus plug on one end and a 9 pin serial connector on the other. The part
> number of the cable is 050-03213-0000.
>
> Attached is the drawing for the cable and jack.
>
> The cable can be ordered from Wingman Services at 800-247-0230.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Turner, Marti On Behalf Of BendixKingCSS
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:55 PM
> To: Demaree, Chuck
> Subject: FW: KLN90 data loader port.....
>
>
> Can you please respond to this customer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Baker [mailto:jlbaker(at)telepath.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 PM
> To: bendix.kingCSS(at)honeywell.com
> Subject: KLN90 data loader port.....
>
>
> Which pins control the data loader port (data IN/OUT/GND) and
> what is the typical port jack used?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Baker
> 492TC
> 580-788-2779
> J.Baker
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
>
> > A teardown revealed a mis-positioned wire bundle under the
> > floorboards where a 40A protected wire for co-pilot's windshield
> > heat had had been rubbing against the elevator cable for some
> > period of time.
> >
> > No smoke, no fire, no flickers in the electrical system, no
> > trips of the 40A breaker.
>
>Allow me to publicly display my ignorance.....isn't there some form of
>GFI that would sense the difference between the hot and ground
>and trip the circuit? I know the stated standard for UL is 5ma (like
>that applies here!) so that wouldn't work but, say, some larger level
>of leakage detection? Or would this be a trippin' son-of-a-gun with all
>the impulse loads we generate?
There are ground fault detection devices for DC systems but
they're complex and of limited usefulness. We use them on
major feeders in aircraft but they would never be used in
situations like the soft faulted windshield heater line
I cited.
Some components of the system are installed with attention
to detail that makes over load and ground fault protection
unnecessary. In the case of the windshield heater wire, good
practice was ignored in the restoration of the airplane to
proper configuration after a maintenance event. By the way,
I came across this incident during a search of accident records
at RAC looking for relative numbers of electrical systems issues
that started a chain of events leading to an accident. They
are exceedingly rare and in this case, didn't result in
damage to airplane or occupants. It was an interesting data
point but in no way intended to raise concerns on anyone's
part that we should be looking for the next greatest advancement
in aircraft safety. Hmmmm . . . I'd better not say that too
loud. The FAA just might pick that up as the the next cause du jour.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | You think alternators are safe? |
>
>Hi Bob,
>Are the miniature DSP circuit breakers available at
>this time and how much would you expect them to cost?
>Bob Sultzbach
Not that I'm aware of. But even if they were, I wouldn't
recommend them. The fuseblock delivers the highest cost-
benefit ratio for wire protection we can buy.
The people who NEED them are the poor saps that bought
air transport class aircraft wired with Kapton insulated
wire. I knew how bad this stuff was when I had the electrical/
avionics group on the GP-180 25 years ago. We opted for Tefzel
back then as did all the Wichita OEM's.
The big airplanes cannot be rewired. Further, the amount of
lint (almost explosive) and other trash that builds around
the innards of old airplanes makes arc-tracking in Kapton
wiring a much more serious issue. The "fix" is to replace
breakers with devices that will detect arcing soft failures
in the wires. This is not a concern for OBAM aircraft where
builders have installed the best . . . Tefzel.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> once? |
| Subject: | Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once? |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Just to clarify. Scott's original question concerned Z-13/8. If he were
>to use the BC-1 regulator for his main alternator rather than the specfied
>generic Ford, would he avoid OV cross-talk with an SD-8 using the standard
>OV protection scheme?
The SB-1 is for use as a standby alternator controller where the
smaller (SD-20) is running 100% of the time and tied to the
same bus structure as the main alternator (Figure Z-12). The
DIFFERENCE between the LR-3 and the SB-1 is that the low voltage
warning has been replaced with circuitry to use a hall-effect sensor
on the SD-20's b-lead to detect when it is delivering power (main
alternator off line) and when overloaded (light flashes).
It's not intended for use as a stand-alone alternator operation
like any of the other z-figures.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> barrel terminals |
| Subject: | Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
>
>
>Yes, they're fast-on style. They fit the high-current terminals on 70 amp
>automotive relays.
>
>Jon
What system, how much current and what wire sizes do you
anticipate running through these terminals?
Bob . . .
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thu 2/16/2006 7:15 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel
>terminals
>
> barrel terminals
>
>
>
> >
> >Hi All,
> >
> >Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
> >terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males. These are the only 0.375
> >quick connect females I have been able to find. I could use closed
> >barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
> >get them.
>
> Are these a "fast-on" style connector? For 6AWG wire?
> Where do you plan to use them?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
>
>One thing I don't like about these boards is the terminal block connecting
>method - just stick a wire into the block and mash the wire down with the
>little screw. Seems like kind of a crude/weak method after all the
>crimped and soldered connecters we so carefully put together....
Are these the terminals strips like those shown in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Screw_Clamp_Terminal_Strips.jpg
The first time I saw those on aircraft hardware, I think
it was on the Vision Microsystems VM1000 some years ago
and more recently on the product illustrated in the photo
above.
If these are the same devices you're seeing for attaching
wires . . . your concerns are well founded. We go to a lot
of trouble to get gas tight joints to wires and to provide
insulation support adjacent to the joint. These are the prime
directives of environmentally robust joints. These terminal
strips do neither.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature compensation, UMA CHT |
>
>
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>After examining carefully the TC probe sold with the UMA CHT, the situation
>appears even worse than I expected. The probe has only 2 ft TC lead wires,
>and then copper extension wires. So with my in-line engine, cylinder 2 the
>hottest, the "cold" junction will be INSIDE the engine compartment, where
>temperature can rise somewhat higher than the 75F the instrument is
>calibrated for!
>
>So, I bought TC connectors and extension wires from Omega to move the cold
>junction close to the instrument.
>Jean-Pierre Castiello, who designed the A320 brakes temp monitoring, is to
>craft for me an external compensation box based on the same AD594. Input is
>the J extension, output will directly drive the CHT air core movement.
>
>I will let you know the result...
>
>Thanks to all of you for the so precious informations I could gather from
>the list!
Gilles. I've not forgotten our earlier conversation about a
temperature compensated driver for the UMA T/C driven gages.
You need to hook a resistor in series with a variable power
supply and tell me how much CURRENT through the instrument
and VOLTAGE across the instrument to get 0 to 100%
of full scale reading and at 3 to 5 points between 0 and 100%.
I understand these are powered instruments. I'll need to know
what resistance is measured between the signal input pins of
the instrument and power ground.
I've got a design for a thermocouple signal conditioner driving
a constant current generator that will provide the adjustability
you need for calibrating along with cold-junction compensation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
>will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
>
>I've found lots of on/off switches that will
>tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
>does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
>that will give me analog output over a range
>of values? Reasonably priced means to me
>something less than about $250.
Does this need to be a quantity gage or just
a low level warning?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Special switch |
Thanks Bob
Already ordered it
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Special switch
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I am looking for a DPDT On-On-On switch, like the 2-10 from B&C but in
>>miniature or sub-miniature version.
>>Does anybody know a source for it ?
>
> Sure. This would be a C&K 7211SYZQE available from Digikey.
> The descriptors on page
>
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1385.pdf
>
> are correct. Descriptors in the order building page
> at
>
> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=15385&Site=US&Cat=34407579
>
> are hosed up. It doesn't have and LED, is not DP4T,
> doesn't mount in a 15 x 5.5 mm hole, not rated for 582 Amps
> and is not an On-Off-On switch . . . other than all
> that confusion, the part number is correct for a DP3T,
> On-On-On progressive transfer switch. You can confirm this
> from the C&K catalog second illustration from the top on
> page 2 of:
>
> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/C%26K%20Components/Web%20Data/7000%20Series.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram |
Thanks for the suggestions Jim. Unfortunately, I was not able to find any information
about the pin layouts on the LoneStar Aviation site, however; they do
have a nifty product.
I checked out the pin layouts at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KLX135.pdf. It appears the KLX 135 uses both the P1 and P4001 connectors and the P4001 pins K, H, and J do not correspond to the data loader RS232 OUT, ground and RS232 IN respectively. The dataloader pins are on the P1 connector which is non-existent on the KLN 35A. The difference between my unit and the KLX 135 is that the KLX 135 has a built in Comm radio, where my unit is straight VFR GPS unit without Comm, hence; fewer connectors are provided.
The P4001 pin layout for the my unit continues to be a mystery....
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Baker
To: Michael Hinchcliff
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KLN35A Pin/Installation Diagram
> 1.) Your diagram shows the KLN35A with a "P1" connector. I believe P1
> connector has pins 1-22 on one row and pins A-Z on the other. I
> believe my unit has a P4001 connector with pins 1-15 on one row and
> pins A-S on the other. Are my assumptions are correct and if so, are
> you aware of a similar drawing showing the KLN35A with a P4001
> connector?
I wasn't able to find the 135 data on connectors. Check out....
http://tinyurl.com/83mhd
The docking station uses the same pinout cable for the KLN90 and KLN135 so if
you can find either......
2.) How are the alphabetic rows on the connectors arranged
> since they don't line up with their order from their numbered
> counterparts? For example, on the P1, why are pins 22 and Z adjacent
> instead of 22 and V? On the P4001, pins 15 and S are adjacent instead
> of 15 and O? Make sense?
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KLX135.pdf
Try the above for pinout definitions.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
Bob,
I use a pressure sensor in a threaded boss in a metal hose connection.
The warning is provided by
my Grand Rapids Technologies E I S. It's alarm is set at a minimum 4
psi. You loose water pressure
you know just as well that you don't have enough water to continue much
farther. A low fluid level would
not necessarily save your engine if it were placed incorrectly and might
be excess mechanics for what
you're trying to do. A pressure switch is smaller and simpler to do.
Larry McFarland - 601hds with Stratus Subaru
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
>>will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
>>
>>I've found lots of on/off switches that will
>>tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
>>does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
>>that will give me analog output over a range
>>of values? Reasonably priced means to me
>>something less than about $250.
>>
>>
> Does this need to be a quantity gage or just
> a low level warning?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
| Subject: | OAT sensor/meter |
Has anyone come across a reliable Outside Air Temp sensor/meter, preferably
LED display, dimmable, easy to install on/in the panel?
Rumen
P.S. Come to talk about this, I wonder if any of the fuel totalizers with
Aux input would accommodate such a sensor and where is it to be found and
how to connect it. (the Aux input of Electronics International's fuel
totalizer can accommodate Voltage or CGT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
Yes, that's exactly what I've got on the dimmer ckt board.
I noticed that's also the style of connector used for the CHT and EGT sensor
wires in the "brain box" for my IK2000 engine monitor.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer ckt from Van's
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>>One thing I don't like about these boards is the terminal block connecting
>>method - just stick a wire into the block and mash the wire down with the
>>little screw. Seems like kind of a crude/weak method after all the
>>crimped and soldered connecters we so carefully put together....
>
> Are these the terminals strips like those shown in:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Screw_Clamp_Terminal_Strips.jpg
>
> The first time I saw those on aircraft hardware, I think
> it was on the Vision Microsystems VM1000 some years ago
> and more recently on the product illustrated in the photo
> above.
>
> If these are the same devices you're seeing for attaching
> wires . . . your concerns are well founded. We go to a lot
> of trouble to get gas tight joints to wires and to provide
> insulation support adjacent to the joint. These are the prime
> directives of environmentally robust joints. These terminal
> strips do neither.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Figure 16-2 Errata |
A number of eagle eyed readers pointed out where I stubbed my toe
on the crafting of Figure 16-2 in the 'Connection. A properly
crafted replacement may be downloaded from:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/Figure_16-2A_Errata.pdf
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
Hi Larry,
Thanks for getting back to me.
> I use a pressure sensor in a threaded boss in a metal hose connection.
Which pressure sensor are you using?
Paul's idea of using a Honeywell 26PCAFA6D amplified with a
INA118P instrumentation op amp is great, but I'm not
really qualified to do that much integration. I want
to run a zero pressure system, so using a sensor that
can detect such a small amount of pressure would be perfect,
assuming it's adequately damped.
> The warning is provided by
> my Grand Rapids Technologies E I S. It's alarm is set at a minimum 4
> psi. You loose water pressure
> you know just as well that you don't have enough water to continue much
> farther. A low fluid level would
> not necessarily save your engine if it were placed incorrectly and might
> be excess mechanics for what
> you're trying to do. A pressure switch is smaller and simpler to do.
I'm not planning to run any pressure in my system, but
this might change when my design meets reality. Still, I'm
having a little trouble understanding the relationship between
pressure and coolant loss. It seems like even if you have a
slow leak, and the coolant level goes down, the pressure
cap will maintain the correct pressure, even if it's only
air. I'm kind of new to this, so please excuse my ignorance.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Special switch |
Carlos
Try this link for ebay. I bought five, but have not yet tried these
switches. They came in a day or two ago. They are sub miniature. I don't need
more
then two, I could drop one in the mail if you like.
What is the best way to make a secure connection to these small contacts?
http://cgi.ebay.com/PCK-12-MINI-DPDT-Toggle-Switches-ON-ON-ON-UL-SWITCH_W0QQit
emZ7390380626QQcategoryZ47076QQcmdZViewItem
Jim
Searey
multitasking
too cold in the garage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Special switch |
Jim
By the picture, they look SPDT (only 3 connectors) and I need DPDT (6
connectors).
I already ordered from DigiKey, thanks anyway.
For the best connection, I prefer to use spade terminals, if you find the
appropriate size. Otherwise you'll have to solder it.
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: <JTORTHO(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Special switch
>
> Carlos
>
> Try this link for ebay. I bought five, but have not yet tried these
> switches. They came in a day or two ago. They are sub miniature. I
> don't need more
> then two, I could drop one in the mail if you like.
> What is the best way to make a secure connection to these small contacts?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/PCK-12-MINI-DPDT-Toggle-Switches-ON-ON-ON-UL-SWITCH_W0QQit
> emZ7390380626QQcategoryZ47076QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Jim
> Searey
> multitasking
> too cold in the garage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
Mickey,
I used a Grand Rapids Technologies Part Number LPS-02 low pressure
sensor suitable for fuel and coolant pressures between 0-28 psi.
My coolant pressure is always above 5 psi so the low warning is set at 4
psi. If you're using a zero-pressure coolant in your engine
like the Evans waterless coolants, this might not be a good idea as they
only get pressure from pump flow.
GRT can be reached at Byron Center, MI ph 616-583-8000.
Larry
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>Hi Larry,
>
>Thanks for getting back to me.
>
>
>
>>I use a pressure sensor in a threaded boss in a metal hose connection.
>>
>>
>
>Which pressure sensor are you using?
>
>Paul's idea of using a Honeywell 26PCAFA6D amplified with a
>INA118P instrumentation op amp is great, but I'm not
>really qualified to do that much integration. I want
>to run a zero pressure system, so using a sensor that
>can detect such a small amount of pressure would be perfect,
>assuming it's adequately damped.
>
>
>
>>The warning is provided by
>>my Grand Rapids Technologies E I S. It's alarm is set at a minimum 4
>>psi. You loose water pressure
>>you know just as well that you don't have enough water to continue much
>>farther. A low fluid level would
>>not necessarily save your engine if it were placed incorrectly and might
>>be excess mechanics for what
>>you're trying to do. A pressure switch is smaller and simpler to do.
>>
>>
>
>I'm not planning to run any pressure in my system, but
>this might change when my design meets reality. Still, I'm
>having a little trouble understanding the relationship between
>pressure and coolant loss. It seems like even if you have a
>slow leak, and the coolant level goes down, the pressure
>cap will maintain the correct pressure, even if it's only
>air. I'm kind of new to this, so please excuse my ignorance.
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
>
>
>Yes, that's exactly what I've got on the dimmer ckt board.
>I noticed that's also the style of connector used for the CHT and EGT sensor
>wires in the "brain box" for my IK2000 engine monitor.
That's too bad. That style of wire-to-board interconnect
system is really not suited to airplanes . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
BTW, Vision Micro went to d-sub connectors several years ago.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dimmer ckt from Van's
>
>
>Yes, that's exactly what I've got on the dimmer ckt board.
>I noticed that's also the style of connector used for the CHT and EGT
sensor
>wires in the "brain box" for my IK2000 engine monitor.
That's too bad. That style of wire-to-board interconnect
system is really not suited to airplanes . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
>
>Hi All,
>I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require AutoCad or
>TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I first
>need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and somehow
>place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
>acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce the
>file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who want
>to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us drawing
>schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple Copy/Paste
>methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic portrays
>accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!? I
>have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp and
>creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
I'm not sure that Paint skills are any easier to
acquire. I use three different kinds of paint/photo editors
plus AutoCAD. The paint programs are almost impossible to
use for schematic drawings. They're like trying to draw
with a crayon rubber-banded to the end of a long stick.
If you want to avoid adding CAD to your box of tricks, then
consider paper/ink. Draw your schematics on good paper in #2
pencil as sketches. When all the data are correct, get out
a straight edge, circle guide, and ink pen to pretty-up
the drawing using penciled data as guide.
When finished, remove all pencil marks with pink eraser and
fog the drawing with a light coat of clear Krylon. You'll have
better looking drawings in less time than it takes to push
blobs of pixels around on a computer screen.
On the CAD side, consider that all CAD programs have hundreds
to thousands of commands that every tutorial writer feels obligated
to teach. Years ago I discovered an AutoCAD feature that allows
one to replace the extended, full word command set with simple
abbreviated strings of your choice. I began to craft my own
command overlay file which ended up looking like this:
AR, *ARRAY
B, *BLOCK
WB, *WRITEBLOCK
BR, *BREAK
CI, *CIRCLE
C, *CHANGE
CH, *CHAMFER
CO, *COPY
D, *DIMSTYLE
DI, *DIST
DO, *DONUT
DT, *DTEXT
E, *ERASE
ED, *DDEDIT
EL, *ELLIPSE
XT, *EXTEND
EXIT, *QUIT
F, *FILLET
H, *HATCH
I, *INSERT
IP, *ISOPLANE
L, *LINE
LA, *LAYER
LI, *LIST
LT, *LINETYPE
M, *MOVE
MI, *MIRROR
OF, *OFFSET
OS, *OSNAP
P, *PAN
PE, *PEDIT
PL, *PLINE
PG, *POLYGON
P, *PURGE
R, *REDRAW
RG, *REGEN
RT, *RECTANGLE
REN *RENAME
RO, *ROTATE
S, *STRETCH
SC, *SCALE
SCR, *SCRIPT
T, *TRIM
V, *VIEW
XP, *EXPLODE
Z, *ZOOM
There are 46 AutoCAD commands in this list. Two things happened
when, after several years, I looked at the list. It told me
that out of thousands of things AutoCAD will do, less
than 50 of those commands took care of 99% of my use of AutoCAD.
In fact, probably half that list covers 98%, the rest covers 1.9%
and from time to time (0.1%) I have to dig out some new feature
in AutoCAD.
The list also represented a suggested study guide for new users.
Get out the tutorial for your particular CAD program and learn
the functions that parallel the list above. I suspect you too
will discover that taming the mighty beast CAD is not
as great a task as the tutorials would suggest.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
The easiest way to do this is to get a copy of Microsoft Visio, it is
part of the office suite, and your work probably has it for you to use
there. They have all of the templates available in there and you can
download additional ones from the website for it. Visio is the easiest
way to make schematics, flowcharts, etc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require
AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I
first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and
somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce
the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who
want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us
drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple
Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic
portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp
and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Anderson" <s_s_and(at)hotmail.com> |
You can order one from Mouser at mouser.com. I have gotten switches from
them, the problem is wading through all the products. They have a catalog
online or will send you one.
Steve Anderson
Final wiring
RV 7a
>From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Special switch
>Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:52:11 -0000
>
>
>
>I am looking for a DPDT On-On-On switch, like the 2-10 from B&C but in
>miniature or sub-miniature version.
>Does anybody know a source for it ?
>
>Thanks
>Carlos
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer ckt from Van's |
>
>BTW, Vision Micro went to d-sub connectors several years ago.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
Oh good. I suggested that way back when the first
time I had occasion to contact them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Anyone know of a source in the USA of illuminated, engravable rocker
switch / breaker?
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Visio is useful for this purpose, but please explain the process by which
Aeroelectric symbols can be introduced into Visio templates.
Kenneth Melvin
Hillsboro, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd,
Daniel R.
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
-->
The easiest way to do this is to get a copy of Microsoft Visio, it is part
of the office suite, and your work probably has it for you to use there.
They have all of the templates available in there and you can download
additional ones from the website for it. Visio is the easiest way to make
schematics, flowcharts, etc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fluid level sensor needed |
>
>
> > Does this need to be a quantity gage or just
> > a low level warning?
>
>My goal is to know when it is low, but I don't
>really trust an "idiot light" solution, which
>is why I'd like some idea of the progression
>from "ok" to "too low".
>
>My fallback position is to install two on/off
>type sensors at different levels, but that's
>getting kind of kludgey.
>
>Thanks for any hints!
Hmmmm . . . . but hard to beat for simplicity.
Reed switches operated with magnets on floats
are really inexpensive and reasonably reliable.
There are some optical level sensors with
possibilities. See:
http://www.gemssensors.com/electrooptical.htm
and
http://www.gemssensors.com/TOCResults.asp?nContentsID=29
I'm working on a one wire, no moving parts, thermally
sensed low liquid level detection system that will be
simpler to install and still more rugged but no schedule
on that activity yet. If you need something tomorrow,
consider the technology cited above.
For magnet and reed technologies, see:
http://www.gemssensors.com/TOCResults.asp?nContentsID=36
Some of these mount right through the sidewall of a
container. You could install more than one and use
simple indicator lamps to annunciate switch position.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker? |
Check out the folks on the experimentalavionics yahoo group.
I got a bunch of these rocker switches from them a few years ago and they
had an engraver lined up too......
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
>
> Anyone know of a source in the USA of illuminated, engravable rocker
> switch / breaker?
>
> Thx.
> Sincerely
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker? |
Honeywell Microswitch AML 34 series,
http://www.honeywell-sensor.com.cn/prodinfo/switch_pki/catalog/aml_30.pdf
Engraving,
www.engravers.net
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E.
Capen
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
Check out the folks on the experimentalavionics yahoo group.
I got a bunch of these rocker switches from them a few years ago and they
had an engraver lined up too......
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
>
> Anyone know of a source in the USA of illuminated, engravable rocker
> switch / breaker?
>
> Thx.
> Sincerely
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker? |
These folks offer a good selection of labeled switches...
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/Categories.aspx?Category=38940ec0-b260-4e9f-a2
3c-b80ff8e89c67
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ralph
E. Capen
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker /
breaker?
Check out the folks on the experimentalavionics yahoo group.
I got a bunch of these rocker switches from them a few years ago and they
had an engraver lined up too......
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
>
> Anyone know of a source in the USA of illuminated, engravable rocker
> switch / breaker?
>
> Thx.
> Sincerely
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N2D First Flight |
| From: | Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Guys, most if not all of you have already seen my first flight report on
Doug Reeves' or Van's websites, just in case anybody hasn't I thought I'd
copy it to the various Lists I've followed over the past 6 years. Wish I
could remember the names of everybody who has answered questions I have
had, or posted information I have found invaluable during the contruction
of N2D. I often find myself wondering how people built airplanes before
the internet! Thanks for all your help and hope to see many of you in
the air and at fly-ins around the country in the months/years ahead.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finally flying...
----
Well folks, N2D is now officially an AIR-plane. The FAA signed me off
Friday Feb 10th and on Wed morning (Feb 15) I woke up to calm winds and I
said to myself, it's time to go flying. I get out to the airport, push
it out of the hangar, do a careful preflight, and can't think of any
excuse not to go. Don my nomex flight suit and helmet and strap myself
in. "Clear Prop!" Engine lights off and the plane comes alive with a
brief shudder and rumble as the vibration ripples through the aluminum
airframe. Taxi out to the end of the East Tees and dial up ground
control: "Cedar Rapids Ground, RV November Two Delta, Experimental...."
Feels good to say that. Tell them I'm ready to do first flight and want
to depart Three-One and circle the airport to 4000'. No problemo. After
the run-up I call Tower and they give me "Position and Hold Three-One,
regional jet landing Niner."
I move out onto the runway, line up with the centerline and wait. I
haven't really been apprehensive about flying this bird but as I sit
there for a few moments, it sorta hits me that I am about to take off in
an airplane that has never flown before....that arrived as boxes of parts
and I assembled in my garage. I think to myself, ya know, this is a
little bit crazy... My thoughts are interrupted by the Tower calling out
"RV Two
Delta, cleared for takeoff." I take a deep breath and push the throttle
forward very slowly. I don't bother looking much at the airspeed, since
I
don't know if it will be accurate. I just wait until it has that 'ready
to fly' feeling and pull back gently on the stick. And up we go. I
realize I
still don't have full power in so I open it up all the way and feel the
constant-speed prop bite in and lunge skyward. Now I am just hanging on
for dear life and hoping nothing bad happens until I can get a little
altitude and catch my breath.
Well, nothing bad happens and eventually my brain catches up with the
airplane. Before I know it I am pushing the nose over at 4K.' My CHT's
are getting a bit high from the climb but nothing out of limits. I
wiggle the stick side-to-side a bit. The wings rock back and forth
briskly in perfect synch with the stick. Gotta love that fighter-like
control response. Flies like an RV....
I circle lazily above the airport for a while, adjusting my oil temp
control and keeping a close eye on all the engine vital signs.
Everything looking good. I peer down on the poor schmucks in the
regional jets landing below me and try not to feel smug. Ok, back to the
task at hand....need to do a few stalls just to see if my airspeed is
working right at low speeds. I head northwest out over the open
farmland. After some more maneuvers I pull the power back slowly to
idle....nose coming up....watching the ASI. Slight buffet and clean
break at 50 kts with flaps
up. Try another one with full flaps...breaks right at 45 kts.
Beautiful. Power back in to 24-squared....gotta run it hard for proper
break-in. I
glance at the flight timer and am surprised to see that an hour has gone
by already.
Time to head back to the aerodrome. I check my six for enemy fighters
and, seeing none, key the mic and tell Cedar Rapids I am ready to return.
They come back with "Wind 040 at 9, left base for runway niner, cleared
to land." I run through my landing checklist. Grip the stick a bit
tighter. Realize that I'm getting close to the field and am still way too
high. Pull the power back to idle and feel the deceleration as the
constant-speed prop and short stubby wings do their thing....get 'er
slowed down enough to throw out the flaps, turn final, add a touch of
power back in to maintain 70 kts and arrest the high sink rate. A bit of
turbulence tossing me around. Nearing the ground now...power all the way
off....flare....and
touchdown. Whew! Not a greaser but not bad either. Big relief as I
roll down the runway, all in one piece...
Taxi up to my hangar, shut her down and just sit there for a while
letting it all soak in. Quiet satisfaction. Engine making that tick,
tick, tick
sound as it cools. Lovely airplane aroma of heat, oil and avgas.
Nobody's around for picture taking, back-slapping or champagne but that
is fine.
Some guy changing a light bulb outside the hangar comes by and says "nice
airplane!". I don't tell him I have just completed its first
flight....just smile and say "thanks."
Speaking of thanks, I owe a huge debt of gratitude to the following:
God, for blessing me with the freedom and resources to make this
dream come true.
My patient and supportive wife Kathleen--and my kids--who have
sacrificed a lot to allow me to do this project.
Alan Kritzman for all his help, encouragement (prodding?) and
camaraderie.
Jerry Esquenazi (T-6A IP at Moody AFB) and Karl Heidrich
(Wright-Patt AFB) for going out of their way to help me duplicate the
beautiful paint scheme on the T-6A.
Everett Coleman for kindly donating his way-cool short N-number to
me.
Everybody at Vans Aircraft for the great design and support.
Countless others--too many to name--from EAA Chapter 33 and the
sport aviation community who have shared their time, hardware, advice and
lessons-learned, resulting in a much better airplane than I could have
built without them!
Hope I can get lots of good flying wx in the weeks/months ahead....I have
38.7 hours to go before I can get out of my test area...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A (s/n 80583) N2D, 1.3 hours flying!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> |
| Subject: | SD8 Alternator Install - Z-12 vs. Manual |
I comparing the SD8 install manual to Z-12 and I'm a bit confused of why the
wiring difference.
The install manual (Drawing 504-500 from B&C) details the following:
1. Aux Alt field breaker connected to main power bus via 2A breaker
and aux alt switch then on to yellow OV crowbar module wire and onto 20 amp
relay.
2. Install manual shows alt warning light coming off of relay
3. Install manual shows a second power connection via 10A breaker to
main bus
Z-13 details
1. Aux alt field connected breaker connected to 20Amp relay then onto
aux alt switch. Black wire of OV module is connected to relay.
2. Z-13 does not show any aux alt warning light
3. Z-13 shows 16Awg fuselink coming from Battery contactor
There are more differences but can someone recommend which diagram to follow
and the reasoning for the differences.
When does the warning light come on for the aux alt? Some instructions say
the alt light comes on when the aux alt switch is off or it is OV.
I plan on leaving the aux alt switch off all the time. Some have
recommended to leave it on but in this scenario how does one diagnose a
failed main alt if the backup alt has the ability to absorb all of the load?
I'm also running a B&C 60 Amp alt with LR3 reg.
Thanks for some clarification,
Steve
RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N2D First Flight |
Congratulations Mark!!!!
Richard Dudley
Mark E Navratil wrote:
>
>Guys, most if not all of you have already seen my first flight report on
>Doug Reeves' or Van's websites, just in case anybody hasn't I thought I'd
>copy it to the various Lists I've followed over the past 6 years. Wish I
>could remember the names of everybody who has answered questions I have
>had, or posted information I have found invaluable during the contruction
>of N2D. I often find myself wondering how people built airplanes before
>the internet! Thanks for all your help and hope to see many of you in
>the air and at fly-ins around the country in the months/years ahead.
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finally flying...
>
>----
>
>Well folks, N2D is now officially an AIR-plane. The FAA signed me off
>Friday Feb 10th and on Wed morning (Feb 15) I woke up to calm winds and I
>said to myself, it's time to go flying. I get out to the airport, push
>it out of the hangar, do a careful preflight, and can't think of any
>excuse not to go. Don my nomex flight suit and helmet and strap myself
>in. "Clear Prop!" Engine lights off and the plane comes alive with a
>brief shudder and rumble as the vibration ripples through the aluminum
>airframe. Taxi out to the end of the East Tees and dial up ground
>control: "Cedar Rapids Ground, RV November Two Delta, Experimental...."
>Feels good to say that. Tell them I'm ready to do first flight and want
>to depart Three-One and circle the airport to 4000'. No problemo. After
>the run-up I call Tower and they give me "Position and Hold Three-One,
>regional jet landing Niner."
>
>I move out onto the runway, line up with the centerline and wait. I
>haven't really been apprehensive about flying this bird but as I sit
>there for a few moments, it sorta hits me that I am about to take off in
>an airplane that has never flown before....that arrived as boxes of parts
>and I assembled in my garage. I think to myself, ya know, this is a
>little bit crazy... My thoughts are interrupted by the Tower calling out
>"RV Two
>Delta, cleared for takeoff." I take a deep breath and push the throttle
>forward very slowly. I don't bother looking much at the airspeed, since
>I
>don't know if it will be accurate. I just wait until it has that 'ready
>to fly' feeling and pull back gently on the stick. And up we go. I
>realize I
>still don't have full power in so I open it up all the way and feel the
>constant-speed prop bite in and lunge skyward. Now I am just hanging on
>for dear life and hoping nothing bad happens until I can get a little
>altitude and catch my breath.
>
>Well, nothing bad happens and eventually my brain catches up with the
>airplane. Before I know it I am pushing the nose over at 4K.' My CHT's
>are getting a bit high from the climb but nothing out of limits. I
>wiggle the stick side-to-side a bit. The wings rock back and forth
>briskly in perfect synch with the stick. Gotta love that fighter-like
>control response. Flies like an RV....
>
>I circle lazily above the airport for a while, adjusting my oil temp
>control and keeping a close eye on all the engine vital signs.
>Everything looking good. I peer down on the poor schmucks in the
>regional jets landing below me and try not to feel smug. Ok, back to the
>task at hand....need to do a few stalls just to see if my airspeed is
>working right at low speeds. I head northwest out over the open
>farmland. After some more maneuvers I pull the power back slowly to
>idle....nose coming up....watching the ASI. Slight buffet and clean
>break at 50 kts with flaps
>up. Try another one with full flaps...breaks right at 45 kts.
>Beautiful. Power back in to 24-squared....gotta run it hard for proper
>break-in. I
>glance at the flight timer and am surprised to see that an hour has gone
>by already.
>
>Time to head back to the aerodrome. I check my six for enemy fighters
>and, seeing none, key the mic and tell Cedar Rapids I am ready to return.
> They come back with "Wind 040 at 9, left base for runway niner, cleared
>to land." I run through my landing checklist. Grip the stick a bit
>tighter. Realize that I'm getting close to the field and am still way too
>high. Pull the power back to idle and feel the deceleration as the
>constant-speed prop and short stubby wings do their thing....get 'er
>slowed down enough to throw out the flaps, turn final, add a touch of
>power back in to maintain 70 kts and arrest the high sink rate. A bit of
>turbulence tossing me around. Nearing the ground now...power all the way
>off....flare....and
>touchdown. Whew! Not a greaser but not bad either. Big relief as I
>roll down the runway, all in one piece...
>
>Taxi up to my hangar, shut her down and just sit there for a while
>letting it all soak in. Quiet satisfaction. Engine making that tick,
>tick, tick
>sound as it cools. Lovely airplane aroma of heat, oil and avgas.
>Nobody's around for picture taking, back-slapping or champagne but that
>is fine.
>Some guy changing a light bulb outside the hangar comes by and says "nice
>airplane!". I don't tell him I have just completed its first
>flight....just smile and say "thanks."
>
>Speaking of thanks, I owe a huge debt of gratitude to the following:
> God, for blessing me with the freedom and resources to make this
>dream come true.
> My patient and supportive wife Kathleen--and my kids--who have
>sacrificed a lot to allow me to do this project.
> Alan Kritzman for all his help, encouragement (prodding?) and
>camaraderie.
> Jerry Esquenazi (T-6A IP at Moody AFB) and Karl Heidrich
>(Wright-Patt AFB) for going out of their way to help me duplicate the
>beautiful paint scheme on the T-6A.
> Everett Coleman for kindly donating his way-cool short N-number to
>me.
> Everybody at Vans Aircraft for the great design and support.
> Countless others--too many to name--from EAA Chapter 33 and the
>sport aviation community who have shared their time, hardware, advice and
>lessons-learned, resulting in a much better airplane than I could have
>built without them!
>
>Hope I can get lots of good flying wx in the weeks/months ahead....I have
>38.7 hours to go before I can get out of my test area...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A (s/n 80583) N2D, 1.3 hours flying!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Totten <john(at)totten.com> |
What are the sources and cures for radio static?
I spent $10,000 on a Garmin 430 and have big time squelch
problems which sometimes make the radios unusable.
Thanks
JohnT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Static |
John,
If the squelch "breaks" always occur on specific 430 set frequencies, then,
it is a problem in the 430. I had to send my 430 back to Garmin and they
fixed it. My 430 had a problem with 132.200.
If the squelch break is random then, who ever installed the 430 should go
through the software squelch adjustment procedures. If that does not fix
things then, you have an RF noise problem. It is know that some earlier
models of KX-155's comms. radiate quite a bit stray RF and that will set off
the more sensitive Garmin 430 receiver. Other comm's may do the same.
D..
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Totten" <john(at)totten.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static
>
>
> What are the sources and cures for radio static?
>
> I spent $10,000 on a Garmin 430 and have big time squelch
> problems which sometimes make the radios unusable.
>
> Thanks
> JohnT
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Totten <john(at)totten.com> |
Does anyone know how to adjust the auto-squelch on the
Garmin 430? I imagine this needs a Service Login and
password?
JohnT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
If they are already in digital format you can import them as line
drawings, or draw them your self and make them a template for Visio, and
then this will give you the ability to use the other ones as well. But
the original question from the poster was not to use Aeroelectric
symbols, rather he was looking for an easy way to make schematics, even
to the point of using paint, which would be a real painful process,
especially when Visio already has default electrical schematic
templates.
Hope this helps
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kenneth Melvin
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
Visio is useful for this purpose, but please explain the process by
which
Aeroelectric symbols can be introduced into Visio templates.
Kenneth Melvin
Hillsboro, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Lloyd,
Daniel R.
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
-->
The easiest way to do this is to get a copy of Microsoft Visio, it is
part
of the office suite, and your work probably has it for you to use there.
They have all of the templates available in there and you can download
additional ones from the website for it. Visio is the easiest way to
make
schematics, flowcharts, etc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Grimmonpre
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require
AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I
first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and
somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce
the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who
want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us
drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple
Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic
portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp
and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Static |
John,
The adjustment of the 3 bands of 430 squelch is fairly complicated.
It takes the proper service manual and a very accurate signal generator with
very good low level attenuation capability.
D
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Totten" <john(at)totten.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static
>
>
> Does anyone know how to adjust the auto-squelch on the
> Garmin 430? I imagine this needs a Service Login and
> password?
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radio Static |
John Totten a crit :
>
>
>Does anyone know how to adjust the auto-squelch on the
>Garmin 430? I imagine this needs a Service Login and
>password?
>
>JohnT
>
>
>
>
John,
If you don't have it the 430 manual, you can see
http://contrails.free.fr/gps_manuels.php
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
I'll make my recommendation again, for those who are newbies at this and
want a simple schematic drawing program, go to http://www.capilano.com/ and
download Designworks LITE and if you like it, pay $39.95. It will do what
you need to do and without memorizing commands or trying to make a program
like Visio or Paint do something it was never designed to do.
Dave Morris
At 09:22 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>If they are already in digital format you can import them as line
>drawings, or draw them your self and make them a template for Visio, and
>then this will give you the ability to use the other ones as well. But
>the original question from the poster was not to use Aeroelectric
>symbols, rather he was looking for an easy way to make schematics, even
>to the point of using paint, which would be a real painful process,
>especially when Visio already has default electrical schematic
>templates.
>Hope this helps
>Dan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Kenneth Melvin
>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:54 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
>
>
>
>Visio is useful for this purpose, but please explain the process by
>which
>Aeroelectric symbols can be introduced into Visio templates.
>Kenneth Melvin
>Hillsboro, OR
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Lloyd,
>Daniel R.
>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:12 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
>
>-->
>
>The easiest way to do this is to get a copy of Microsoft Visio, it is
>part
>of the office suite, and your work probably has it for you to use there.
>They have all of the templates available in there and you can download
>additional ones from the website for it. Visio is the easiest way to
>make
>schematics, flowcharts, etc
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
>Grimmonpre
>Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:15 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require
>AutoCad or
>TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I
>first
>need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and
>somehow
>place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
>acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce
>the
>file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who
>want
>to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us
>drawing
>schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple
>Copy/Paste
>methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic
>portrays
>accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
>I
>have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp
>and
>creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
>Regards ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N2D First Flight |
Mark,
Beautiful! ...and congratulations!! You've just re-inspired me, so out to
the garage I go...
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 2/20/2006 12:06:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: AeroElectric-List: N2D First Flight
From: Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Guys, most if not all of you have already seen my first flight report on
Doug Reeves' or Van's websites, just in case anybody hasn't I thought I'd
copy it to the various Lists I've followed over the past 6 years.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | Wire Label Printers |
I found on ebay the Dymo Pro 5000 brand new for 80.00. Here are the specs.
These things will even do shrink tube labeling.
. Meets ANSI/TIA/EIA-606-A labeling standards.
. "Hot keys" provide automatic label formatting for wires and cables,
terminal blocks, patch panels, vertical and fixed length labeling.
. Advanced wire gauge function. Just select the wire gauge or cable size and
RhinoPRO sets up the label precisely.
. Features common datacom and electrical symbols: ohm, ground, phone, data
and fax
. Prints up to 12 characters for vertical wraps.
. Automatically underlines 6's and 9's for wire and cable marking.
. Smear-proof thermal printing resists solvents, heat and moisture.
. Ten-label memory for fast results.
. Prints Code 39 and Code 128 bar codes
. Prints five text sizes.
. Includes impact-resistant rubber bumper.
. Automatic shut-off saves battery life.
. Bright yellow color means this tool won't get lost.
. Fits in the palm of your hand.
. Uses 6 AA batteries (not included).
. Weighs just over 1 lb.
. Package includes one RhinoPRO 5000 with impact-resistant bumper, one
RhinoPRO 3/4" (19 mm) flexible nylon label cassette, User Manual.
Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jon Goguen <jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
I have several uses in mind. The most demanding is as an OV disconnect
for the B lead of a 40 amp IR ND alternator, with an 8 or 6 AWG wire.
The contacts in the relay are rated for 100,000 cycles at 70 amps/14
volts. Do you have some reason to believe that fast-on style
connectors don't scale up well to the 0.375 size and won't meet the
manufacturers specs on these relays with respect to current rating?
They would be installed as part of an integrated connector that
includes all four terminals, and would be provided with proper wire
support. I like them because they're very light, very cheap, and
replaceable on a plug-in basis.
Jon
Jon Goguen
jon.goguen(at)umassmed.edu
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics
"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Feb 18, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III barrel terminals
wrote:
> barrel terminals
>
>
>>
>>
>> Yes, they're fast-on style. They fit the high-current terminals on
>> 70 amp
>> automotive relays.
>>
>> Jon
>
> What system, how much current and what wire sizes do you
> anticipate running through these terminals?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of
>> Robert L.
>> Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: Thu 2/16/2006 7:15 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open
>> barrel
>> terminals
>>
>> barrel terminals
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
>>> terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males. These are the only
>>> 0.375
>>> quick connect females I have been able to find. I could use closed
>>> barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where
>>> to
>>> get them.
>>
>> Are these a "fast-on" style connector? For 6AWG wire?
>> Where do you plan to use them?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Danny L. Smith" <dsmit132(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Z-14 FADEC Version Question |
Bob, Im building an RV-7A with a FADEC engine, one B&C 60A alternator and
two PC-680 batteries. Is there any reason I cant use the Z-14 FADEC Version
and just eliminate the aux. alternator and regulator?
Danny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Carrier Only Problem |
A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio installation.
His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
away, but no hint of any voice.
We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be appreciated.
Charlie Brame
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 FADEC Version Question |
>
>
>Bob, Im building an RV-7A with a FADEC engine, one B&C 60A alternator and
>two PC-680 batteries. Is there any reason I cant use the Z-14 FADEC Version
>and just eliminate the aux. alternator and regulator?
What kind of engine? Do you plan a vacuum system?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carrier Only Problem |
I would think the mic is not being switched from the intercom to the radio
mic input as the ptt is pushed - or at least that would be my diagnostic
starting point. If that is not the problem I would then suspect the radio
itself. what radio is it?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Brame" <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:02 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Carrier Only Problem
>
> A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio installation.
>
> His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
> advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
> easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
> adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
> the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
> The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
> away, but no hint of any voice.
>
> We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
> traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
> is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
>
> Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be
> appreciated.
>
> Charlie Brame
> San Antonio
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carrier Only Problem |
Charlie Brame wrote:
>
>A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio installation.
>
>His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
>advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
>easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
>adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
>the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
>The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
>away, but no hint of any voice.
>
>We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
>traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
>is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
>
>Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be appreciated.
>
>Charlie Brame
>San Antonio
>
Is your PTT line routed through the intercom, or direct to the radio? If
direct, the intercom might not be routing the mic signal out to the
radio. Check with the intercom mfgr to see if it requires the PTT line
to be routed through it to activate the xmit mic audio out line.
Did you install a backup mic/PTT jack direct to the radio? If so, you
can test from there to the radio with your mic plugged into this jack.
If not, can you get to the mic in terminal on the back of the radio? If
so, you can probe the terminal with a paper clip or something similar
while holding the PTT. As you probe repeatedly, you should hear clicks
on another radio on the same freq. This will let you know whether the
radio's audio section is working.
If all works so far, grab some clip leads & clip the intercom's mic
output line to the 'ring' of your headphone plug & clip the ground
terminal to the 'sleeve' of the plug. Hold the PTT down & talk in the
mic, listening to the headphone to see if you hear audio. This will tell
you if the intercom is passing audio in transmit mode.
If still no joy, ask us again.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals |
Jon
FWIW I downloaded spec sheet for the VF7 tyco relay and believe it is
not suitable for that purpose. Figure 1 shows the ability to
disconnect a resistive load and extinguish the arc. At 40 amps (or a bit
more) it can't manage more than about 20 volts. Remember that you aren't
interupting a 12 volt supply but something higher during a runaway and
it will rise further as the contacts start to open and arc. With some
inductive characteristics this is also probably a more severe case than
the resistive situation that the graph refers to.
http://www.snesne.com/vf7.pdf
I found those "integrated" connectors to be problematic even on 1/4"
spade terminal relays. The open barrel connectors don't seem to grip
tight enough to reliably handle much current. I prefer separate PIDG
connectors for each wire. I tried using PIDG connectors in an integrated
connector but then they were too difficult to install or remove without
destroying the relay due to the high forces involved. Most automotive
relays don't interupt more than about 14 volts and I'm having trouble
thinking of any that handle more than about 10 amps except maybe the
anti-skid.
Ken
Jon Goguen wrote:
>
>I have several uses in mind. The most demanding is as an OV disconnect
>for the B lead of a 40 amp IR ND alternator, with an 8 or 6 AWG wire.
>The contacts in the relay are rated for 100,000 cycles at 70 amps/14
>volts. Do you have some reason to believe that fast-on style
>connectors don't scale up well to the 0.375 size and won't meet the
>manufacturers specs on these relays with respect to current rating?
>They would be installed as part of an integrated connector that
>includes all four terminals, and would be provided with proper wire
>support. I like them because they're very light, very cheap, and
>replaceable on a plug-in basis.
>
>Jon
>
>Jon Goguen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carrier Only Problem |
| From: | Deene Ogden <deene(at)us.ibm.com> |
I would suspect that the mike audio out from the intercom to the radio
mike audio input is somehow not making it (broken/missed connection).
Checkout that path...
The mike key is making it since the Com side transmits, but looks like the
mike audio is not.
Deene
"Bill Maxwell"
Sent by: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
02/20/2006 08:07 PM
Please respond to
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
To
cc
Subject
Re: AeroElectric-List: Carrier Only Problem
I would think the mic is not being switched from the intercom to the radio
mic input as the ptt is pushed - or at least that would be my diagnostic
starting point. If that is not the problem I would then suspect the radio
itself. what radio is it?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Brame" <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:02 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Carrier Only Problem
>
> A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio
installation.
>
> His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
> advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
> easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
> adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
> the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
> The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
> away, but no hint of any voice.
>
> We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
> traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
> is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
>
> Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be
> appreciated.
>
> Charlie Brame
> San Antonio
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carrier Only Problem |
Charlie Brame wrote:
> We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
> traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
> is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
Check to see that the mic output level from the intercom to the comm
radio is set correctly. Some intercoms have a separate internal
adjustment to set the level of the signal going to the radio.
Secondly, check to see that the mic level in the radio is set properly.
Every transceiver with which I am familiar has a mic level control to
allow the shop to adjust to accommodate different microphones.
If you tell us which model of intercom and which model of comm radio you
have I might be able to be more specific.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carrier Only Problem |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Does the system include an auxilliary radio input - to effectively bypass
the intercom - another set of jacks? If so, have you tried it? Have you
tried to turn off the intercom?
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio
> installation.
>
> His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
> advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
> easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
> adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
> the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
> The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
> away, but no hint of any voice.
>
> We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
> traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
> is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
>
> Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be
> appreciated.
>
> Charlie Brame
> San Antonio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Craig Chipley" <mechtech81(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | TNC connector source |
I need a source for 90 degree and straight TNC
connectors. I am installing a GX-55 thanks.
Craig Chipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
Cc: "Bill Repucci"
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Here's another, very easy to use FREE schematic program:
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
I ran across this several weeks ago and have used it to redraw my alarm
panel which I built using Jim Weir's Kit Planes articles.
I have a copy of TurboCad v9 and have used Turbocad for years (it is cheap
and very powerful), but the ExpressPCB is much more suited to doing wiring
schematics. Many symbols are built in but they are mostly for printed
circuits. However, it is very easy to develop custom symbols and put them
in the "favorite" library.
Ronnie Brown
Velocity 173 RG Elite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6AWG Fast-ons and VF7 Relays |
>
>Jon
>
>FWIW I downloaded spec sheet for the VF7 tyco relay and believe it is
>not suitable for that purpose. Figure 1 shows the ability to
>disconnect a resistive load and extinguish the arc. At 40 amps (or a bit
>more) it can't manage more than about 20 volts. Remember that you aren't
>interupting a 12 volt supply but something higher during a runaway and
>it will rise further as the contacts start to open and arc. With some
>inductive characteristics this is also probably a more severe case than
>the resistive situation that the graph refers to.
>http://www.snesne.com/vf7.pdf
>
>I found those "integrated" connectors to be problematic even on 1/4"
>spade terminal relays. The open barrel connectors don't seem to grip
>tight enough to reliably handle much current. I prefer separate PIDG
>connectors for each wire. I tried using PIDG connectors in an integrated
>connector but then they were too difficult to install or remove without
>destroying the relay due to the high forces involved. Most automotive
>relays don't interupt more than about 14 volts and I'm having trouble
>thinking of any that handle more than about 10 amps except maybe the
>anti-skid.
>
>Ken
You stole my thunder sir. I think you're dead-on correct.
First, a b-lead contactor needs to be a real contactor, i.e.
double make-break contacts in series. This greatly improves
the ability of the device to open a rapidly rising source
voltage when the contacts open.
As to the boss-hog relays offered in the automotive world
with impressive ratings, I agree that their usefulness is
limited at the higher ratings and there are other issues
like quality of the fast-on joint that makes them problematic
for use at those ratings.
Even though the fuse blocks are RATED at up to 30A per
branch, I prefer to de-rate them to 15A. Any larger
load should step up in robustness like the Maxi Fuse
in-line holders. Degradation due to electrical heating
is an I(squared)*R effect. Cutting currents to 1/2 drops
stress to 1/4.
I have no doubt that ALL of the manufacturers of these
products have crafted ratings in good faith . . . I wouldn't
suggest that anyone is being dishonest. But we do know that
the highest stresses on most light aircraft electrics are
environmental . . . they degrade with age and ultimately
fail electrically when mate-up forces and finishes don't
carry the current any more.
Hence our preoccupation with longevity for gas-tight
joints, de-rated contacts and doing the best we can with
the $time$ invested in parts selection and installation.
I agree that there are few if any places where I would
want to install the VF-7 with an intention of loading it
to a high percentage of its ratings.
Bob . . .
>Jon Goguen wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I have several uses in mind. The most demanding is as an OV disconnect
> >for the B lead of a 40 amp IR ND alternator, with an 8 or 6 AWG wire.
> >The contacts in the relay are rated for 100,000 cycles at 70 amps/14
> >volts. Do you have some reason to believe that fast-on style
> >connectors don't scale up well to the 0.375 size and won't meet the
> >manufacturers specs on these relays with respect to current rating?
> >They would be installed as part of an integrated connector that
> >includes all four terminals, and would be provided with proper wire
> >support. I like them because they're very light, very cheap, and
> >replaceable on a plug-in basis.
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >Jon Goguen
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature compensation, UMA CHT |
The AD594 already has all that built in. The output from the 594 is
0-5vdc. The 594 also helps linearize the output curve from the TC.
David M.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hi Bob and all,
>>
>>After examining carefully the TC probe sold with the UMA CHT, the situation
>>appears even worse than I expected. The probe has only 2 ft TC lead wires,
>>and then copper extension wires. So with my in-line engine, cylinder 2 the
>>hottest, the "cold" junction will be INSIDE the engine compartment, where
>>temperature can rise somewhat higher than the 75F the instrument is
>>calibrated for!
>>
>>So, I bought TC connectors and extension wires from Omega to move the cold
>>junction close to the instrument.
>>Jean-Pierre Castiello, who designed the A320 brakes temp monitoring, is to
>>craft for me an external compensation box based on the same AD594. Input is
>>the J extension, output will directly drive the CHT air core movement.
>>
>>I will let you know the result...
>>
>>Thanks to all of you for the so precious informations I could gather from
>>the list!
>
>
>
> Gilles. I've not forgotten our earlier conversation about a
> temperature compensated driver for the UMA T/C driven gages.
> You need to hook a resistor in series with a variable power
> supply and tell me how much CURRENT through the instrument
> and VOLTAGE across the instrument to get 0 to 100%
> of full scale reading and at 3 to 5 points between 0 and 100%.
>
> I understand these are powered instruments. I'll need to know
> what resistance is measured between the signal input pins of
> the instrument and power ground.
>
> I've got a design for a thermocouple signal conditioner driving
> a constant current generator that will provide the adjustability
> you need for calibrating along with cold-junction compensation.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TNC connector source |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Allied Electronics: http://www.alliedelec.com/
wrote:
>
>
> I need a source for 90 degree and straight TNC
> connectors. I am installing a GX-55 thanks.
>
> Craig Chipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TNC connector source |
http://www.mouser.com Part # 523-31-2373, Amphenol TNC connector.
That's what I used for my GX60 antenna (same connector). Looks like it's
still $5.71.
I'm sure Digikey stocks the same or similar part. Anything that
www.steinair.com doesn't stock electronics-wise I usually get from Mouser.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (818 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Craig Chipley" <mechtech81(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:08 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TNC connector source
>
>
> I need a source for 90 degree and straight TNC
> connectors. I am installing a GX-55 thanks.
>
> Craig Chipley
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vern Little <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
CC: Bill Repucci
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Ron Brown wrote:
>
> Here's another, very easy to use FREE schematic program:
>
> http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
>
> I ran across this several weeks ago and have used it to redraw my alarm
> panel which I built using Jim Weir's Kit Planes articles.
>
I've done many, many electronic and electrical designs using ExpressSCH
and ExpressPCB.
This includes a complete electrical systems design for my RV-9A, which I
make publically available, along with a symbol library.
FMI, see http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html
Vern Littl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Hi All ...
I want to announce my appreciation for all the comments received for the
above subject. This list rocks ... when there's a need to feed, you guys
step-up to the plate and hit home runs. There were well over a dozen
replies with suggestions and comments. I've tried several programs and
found I prefer something simple and predicable with no study time involved.
Yesterday I got my patience out of storage and made a schematic for the fat
wires and big users, with my paint program. The design includes two
batteries, one alternator, starter, three busses and required control
switches and power diodes, for an all electric RV8A. It took a bit of time
but I'm happy. I will continue with Paint to create the individual
circuits.
Many thinks to all ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon(at)ptcnet.net> |
I've been searching the web and Google for a 12v 2" stroke, extra small,
linear actuator. Preferably with adjustable limits and feedback. I want to
use it to adjust prop pitch. Any one know of an actuator that mite work
for me? Bill S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? |
Hi Jerry et al-
I couldn't agree more. There are superb examples of what our computer savvy cohorts
can do, but I'm not one of them. Sometimes folks that have gained significant
skill sets through work or other hobbies forget that these are non-trivial
excercises for the rest of us. I've looked at and tinkered with much of what
has been suggested on this list, but the time / effort / cost involved in
mastering these tools is more than I care to invest. Hence, I've created a Paint
file titled "parts", and I cut and paste what I need to make the schematics
for my all-electric, IFR airplane. They are definately not as pretty as what
has been offered up here, but they work quite well for my needs. My design
principles may leave folks scratching their heads, but the schematics are quite
self explanatory. No, I can't post them to a web site (see above), but I can
fwd examples to anyone interested off-line when and as I pass through town.
FWIW, nomex undies in place, wiring virtually done AND documented...
Hi All,
>I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require
>AutoCad or
>TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I
>first
>need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and
>somehow
>place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
>acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce
>the
>file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who
>want
>to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us
>drawing
>schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple
>Copy/Paste
>methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic
>portrays
>accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
>I
>have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp
>and
>creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
>Regards ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: Illuminated, engravable |
rocker / breaker?
Ron,
A couple of things to be aware of if you choose the Honeywell AML 34 series
which I used: Not sure if the data sheets have been corrected, but the
switches are dual throw single pole, not dual pole dual throw, ie they have
4 switch terminals + 2 light terminals. Since the internal bulbs only
illuminate one half of the operator (rocker), for proper convention (for on,
push top of rocker) the switches can only be mounted right side up,
therefore you can only engrave the top half of the operator if you want to
read them at night. If you use Aircraft Engravers to purchase and engrave
the operators, they should be aware of this since all of my operators had to
be re-done. Line of sight is still ok with top half engraving with my
extended length panel.
I also had to put the switches on a dimmer circuit since they put your eyes
out at night. Good luck!
Scott Diffenbaugh
RV-7A passed inspection but not flown yet.
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
Honeywell Microswitch AML 34 series,
http://www.honeywell-sensor.com.cn/prodinfo/switch_pki/catalog/aml_30.pdf
Engraving,
www.engravers.net
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E.
Capen
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Illuminated, engravable rocker / breaker?
Check out the folks on the experimentalavionics yahoo group.
February 12, 2006 - February 21, 2006
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-fk