AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-gh
October 26, 2006 - November 14, 2006
certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
them any more.
I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
images at:
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
>Apologies to belabor these two points, but another builder I know is
>dead-set on the ol' Cessna Split Master switch and a separate Avionics
>master. As a long-time Nuckollhead, my plane is faithfully a Z-11, and
>electrically all runs, all hits, no errors. My protestations have come to
>naught despite my best explanations.
>
>The Avionics Master won't die because so many radio makers still insist on
>them by inclusion in installation schematics and threats of no warranty
>coverage if not used. (I know this was true of Microair when I installed
>mine, and I have requests out to GRT, Trutrak and Garmin for
>clarification) I suppose one could feed avionics by connecting a separate
>fuse block to the normal supply side of the e-bus through an "Avionics
>Master Switch" and accept the single-point failure potential.
Not necessary. Run your "critical" items from the e-bus and
put a switch in series with the e-bus normal feed path diode
and call it the "avionics master switch". I will write to
Trutrak and Garmin and inquire as to any special knowledge
they have for the evils that lurk on the bus which are held
at bay by the avionics master switch. Anyone laying any bets?
When I wrote the article on avionics master switches over
10 years ago, it had to be noticed by about 130,000 aviation
types all over the world. NOT ONE individual contacted me
to explain where I was wrong or even to complain about
going against tradition.
I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
(20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
But that still begs the question:
Assume a radio IS vulnerable to start-up transients,
where is it written that it's better to have ONE switch
turn off all vulnerable radios as opposed to turning each
vulnerable radio off with its own power switch? Just because
there's only ONE switch to 'remember' doesn't make it any
more likely to be operated at the right times. Failures to
observe checklists have been demonstrated innumerable times.
So if you can follow a checklist, turn off devices for which
there are concerns. If you can't follow a checklist, then
no number of switches installed anywhere will be a 100%
prophylactic against gremlins that go spark in the dark.
>
>On the split master side, I could propose using the switch, provided
>crowbar protection and low-voltage monitor/annunciation are employed.
>
>In order to offer guidance, I have searched the A-list archives &
>AeroElectric Connection website for supporting documentation and found
>Bob's article on Avionics Masters, but not the critical arguments I have
>seen for the past six or seven years supporting avoidance of the split
>master. Can someone please point to specific references?
There is nothing functionally wrong with the split-rocker
switch. It was cleverly conceived when aviation decided to
eliminate the possiblity of leaving an alternator on-line
without also having a battery . . . but being able to run
the battery by itself too.
The S700-2-10 shown in most of the Z-figure master switches
duplicates the split rocker functionality: OFF/BATTERY/BAT+ALT
The split rocker has been elevated to a position of sainthood.
I've seen all manner of toggle and rocker switch installations
on OBAM aircraft where that infernal split-rocker has been
enshrined in a place of prominence on the panel . . . even tho
it doesn't look like any of the other switches.
The point is, if you can purchase the progressive transfer,
ON-ON-ON functionality in the switch style of your choice, then
you need not genuflect before the alter of split-rocker switches
from the certified world. The 2-10 switching protocols do the same
thing in what ever style switch you choose.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>From the Mixonline link:
>>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
amplification device was born.<<
Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
-Bill B
On 10/26/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> One of my favorite fun reads in the business is "Nuts and Volts"
> magazine:
>
> http://www.nutsvolts.com/
>
> The latest issue features an article about the birth of the
> triode vacuum tube where for the first time, a relatively
> unspectacular control of electrons crossing the evacuated space
> between cathode and anode enclosed in a vacuum was accomplished.
>
> The device had GAIN. This meant it could amplify and oscillate.
> Radio, long distance telephones and talking movies would rise
> quickly to great heights on this invention that also planted seeds
> for the amazing feats of function and miniaturization that we
> enjoy today.
>
> Every week I get journals in the mail that speak of whizzy new
> devices cast in silicon . . . Unfortunately, we're so busy
> certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
> them any more.
>
> I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
> long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
> folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
> become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
> associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
> EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
>
> Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
> back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
> images at:
>
> http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
>
> also:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
>
> http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
>
> http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
>
> http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? |
Interesting; I've never seen a relay with a polarity preference for
the K-coil, but this circuit seems designed to feed electrons into
only one end of the coil regardless of manual trim voltage polarity to
the motor. I thought magnets was magnets :-)
Bob, what's up here?
-Bill B / Trio user, not yet with auto-trim
On 10/26/06, Frank Stringham wrote:
> Bob and others
>
> I need your help in following / understanding the attached diagram.
> According to the folks at trio the 5 and 6 leads from the trio servo are
> wired to the commons of the dpdt relay. The purpose of this set up is to
> disconnect the auto trim when the manual trim is actuated. Now the
> questions: (If the relay I am using has 1 and 2 as NC, 3 and 4 NO, 5 and 6
> as the commons, and 7 and 8 the coils). What is the purpose of the bridge
> rectifier? When the relay is in the NC position is the manual trim over ride
> on or is the trio auto trim on? What wiring diagram would represent this set
> up better than the attached diagram? HELP.......LOST in a wiring maze again.
> I know......I know sweet just to all my poor chemistry student that I
> couln't see why they copuldn't understand quantum mechanics!
>
> TIA
>
> Frank @ sgu and slc
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
> Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne(at)bigpond.com> |
Listers
I had my radio looms made for me. As well as the +12V for the GMA340 I have
1 or maybe 2 wires marked GMA340 lighting +12.
Do I wire these direct to power or do they need to go to a lighting dimmer.
Was hoping the GMA 340 had its own internal lighting dimmer.
>From memory I also have the same situation with the GTX327
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
In a message dated 10/26/2006 9:42:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
Anyone laying any bets?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here's response from GRT- not sure I unnerstand it, tho- I have heard that
main complaint is that voltage sag whilst firing up the Lycosaur will cause
Horizons to re-boot. Doesn't seem like a big problem since by the time you get
to
run-up all is back to normal. Original request below their response- GRT sez:
"EIS on during engine start is correct, the EFIS system should be off during
engine start. The EFIS system has 3 power bus inputs so you could connect
DU-1 input 1 to your Endurance bus and input 2 to your Main bus. You would
connect DU-2 input 1 to your main bus and input 2 to your Endurance bus. Input
3
on both units could go to a small back up battery. Your AHRS inputs would be
the same as DU-1. There are many ways to go on this."
----- Original Message -----
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: Avionics Bus
Hi Mark- apologies for bugging you again, but in planning my new system (Dual
Horizons, EIS, Garmin stack) it is my wish to utilize AeroElectric Connection
architecture and connect my GRT equipment, an SL30 and GTX327 transponder to
my Endurance bus. A GNS 430 will be supported from my Main bus. This is to
eliminate single point of failure of an Avionics bus switch for all radios.
What is GRTs position on this, and is it a bad idea to have the Horizons on
during engine start? I have the EIS on my plane wired in this fashion (on during
engine start) and it has always performed perfectly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
And here is response from Garmin- again, original request below:
"Garmin recommends that these units no be power up during engine start to
prevent voltage spike damage. "
George Koelsch
Garmin International
Aviation Field Service Engineer
george.koelsch(at)garmin.com
913-397-8200
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips [mailto:fiveonepw(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Sales support request for GNS 430
Inquiry:
I have on order from an avionics installer a GNS430, SL30 and GTX327- I wish
to avoid a separate avionics bus and plan to power these from my endurance
bus fuseblock, which is hot whenever the master contactor is on per Bob
Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection system architecture. Is this acceptable
or must I make sure these units are not powered up during engine start?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This......horse........is.........still............kicking!
Thanks again, Bob!
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
Hi Bill,
The description is OK. Increased current thru the vacuum tube causes
an increased voltage drop across the plate load. Plate voltage is the
supply voltage minus the load resistor voltage, so an increased current
results in a reduced plate voltage and vice versa.
Bob W.
"Bill Boyd" wrote:
>
> >From the Mixonline link:
>
> >>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
> result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
> amplification device was born.<<
>
> Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
> Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
>
> Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
>
> Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
>
> -Bill B
>
>
>
> On 10/26/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> > One of my favorite fun reads in the business is "Nuts and Volts"
> > magazine:
> >
> > http://www.nutsvolts.com/
> >
> > The latest issue features an article about the birth of the
> > triode vacuum tube where for the first time, a relatively
> > unspectacular control of electrons crossing the evacuated space
> > between cathode and anode enclosed in a vacuum was accomplished.
> >
> > The device had GAIN. This meant it could amplify and oscillate.
> > Radio, long distance telephones and talking movies would rise
> > quickly to great heights on this invention that also planted seeds
> > for the amazing feats of function and miniaturization that we
> > enjoy today.
> >
> > Every week I get journals in the mail that speak of whizzy new
> > devices cast in silicon . . . Unfortunately, we're so busy
> > certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
> > them any more.
> >
> > I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
> > long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
> > folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
> > become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
> > associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
> > EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
> >
> > Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
> > back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
> > images at:
> >
> > http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
> >
> > also:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
> >
> > http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
> >
> > http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
> >
> > http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> > < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> > < with experiment. >
> > < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
> http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
This is in no way intended to demean or diminish De Forest's
accomplishments, however......
"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the
controlling gravitational field of the moon.... I am bold enough to
say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of
all future advances."
- Dr. Lee De Forest, famous engineer, 1957
I would add that perhaps one should stick to topics they know
well. Dr. De Forest obviously understood the electron's basic
uses far better than he did the future use of those same
"particles" and the devices they would spawn, enabling the very
thing he predicted would not happen to become possible. It's
always a point of some amazement to me just how limited a
capacity most people have in understanding what the future
holds. As for me, I wish I knew something......anything......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? |
Well, the design does supply suppression diodes across the coil no matter
what the input polarity. Not certain that was Trio's intention.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
Yeah, and Bill Gates once said "640K will be enough for ANY program".
Dave Morris
At 11:14 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>
> > http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
>
>This is in no way intended to demean or diminish De Forest's
>accomplishments, however......
>
>"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the
>controlling gravitational field of the moon.... I am bold enough to
>say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of
>all future advances."
>
>- Dr. Lee De Forest, famous engineer, 1957
>
>I would add that perhaps one should stick to topics they know
>well. Dr. De Forest obviously understood the electron's basic
>uses far better than he did the future use of those same
>"particles" and the devices they would spawn, enabling the very
>thing he predicted would not happen to become possible. It's
>always a point of some amazement to me just how limited a
>capacity most people have in understanding what the future
>holds. As for me, I wish I knew something......anything......
>
>
>Jim Baker
>580.788.2779
>Elmore City, OK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Dead Horses don't die... |
Our RV was wired something like this when we got it - with a switch
labeled "E-Bus" but which I thought of as an avionics master because the
radios wouldn't come on without it even with the master on. In fact it
was a switch/breaker. When I recently remade the panel, that same
switch/breaker fell apart in my hands while I was removing it from the
old panel. A single point of failure which, fortunately, failed on the
ground. There was an alternate feed switch, so I guess the switch
failure wouldn't have been a horrible thing in flight, but none the
less, I didn't include it in the new version of the panel. I figure that
it can't hurt to exercise all the radio switches regularly anyway so we
switch them off after each flight.
We do have a couple of items that don't like being on during engine
cranking. One is a Dynon D-10 which browns out and sometimes doesn't
come back so we've put an item in our checklist to pull its breaker
before start. The other is a Trio autopilot which the installation
instructions state not to subject to the reduced voltage of cranking so
we switch it on after startup. Some stuff is still out there that need
some kind of protection to avoid problems.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
I suppose one could feed avionics by connecting a separate
>fuse block to the normal supply side of the e-bus through an "Avionics
>Master Switch" and accept the single-point failure potential.
Not necessary. Run your "critical" items from the e-bus and
put a switch in series with the e-bus normal feed path diode
and call it the "avionics master switch".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
On 26 Oct 2006, at 22:34, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
> power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
> (20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
> them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
> offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
>
I've got a Microair com in my not-yet-flying aircraft. I don't have
an avionics master. What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
start up and shut down?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
On 26 Oct 2006, at 23:21, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
> And here is response from Garmin- again, original request below:
>
> "Garmin recommends that these units no be power up during engine
> start to
> prevent voltage spike damage. "
>
>
> George Koelsch
> Garmin International
> Aviation Field Service Engineer
> george.koelsch(at)garmin.com
> 913-397-8200
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Phillips [mailto:fiveonepw(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:10 PM
> To: Garmin Sales Support
> Subject: Sales support request for GNS 430
>
> Inquiry:
> I have on order from an avionics installer a GNS430, SL30 and
> GTX327- I wish
> to avoid a separate avionics bus and plan to power these from my
> endurance
> bus fuseblock, which is hot whenever the master contactor is on per
> Bob
> Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection system architecture. Is this
> acceptable
> or must I make sure these units are not powered up during engine
> start?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interesting. The installation manuals for the GNS-430 and the
GTX-327 claim DO-160 Category A qualification for voltage spikes (I
don't have an SL-30 Installation manual to look at). Are they saying
that they don't trust their test results, or that they didn't really
do the test? Or that they think the real world might be worse than
the DO-160 requirements?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <dave(at)abrahamson.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GMA340 Wiring |
That dimmer circuit affects the switch letter lighting, whereas the
rest of the dimming is handled automatically, like for the GNS430,
etc... You can connect it to 12V or run it through a dimmer. This
is all from a clarification discussion with the techs at Stark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
In a message dated 10/27/2006 4:35:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
khorton01(at)rogers.com writes:
What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
start up and shut down?
>>>>>>>>>
"Radios ON/OFF" are checklist items for me- haven't seen any negative effects
from radio yet when "OFF" item missed, but T2000 xpndr does seem to behave
oddly if left on at shutdown. "No Comm" errors, turning itself on before Master
shut off, difficult to turn on (occasionally requires several attemps holding
power button in) but otherwise seems to work fairly well.
My 760 transmits very well, but reception from maybe 20% of other aircraft
(ATC and unicoms always come in well) typically with older radios, is garbled in
varying degrees and on rare occasions almost non-existent. Haven't been able
to resolve yet- curious if others experience this. Close formation reception
is often garbled- added resistor to antenna line as discussed here some time
ago (thanks Bob!) helped quite a bit, but will upsize resistor at next
opportunity & see if improves...
Mark Phillips -6A, 360 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>Here is the URL:
>>http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/AltrakVSInstallandUserGuide.pdf
>
> Thanks. I'll study this but later today. We're having a gather'n o' the
> clan at Aunt
> Judy's this afternoon and I'm doing some of the cooking. Need to go
> fire up the
> oven.
Okay, I've prayed over the drawings and like most installation
manuals, the information provided is a recipe for success,
"wire it like this, trust me, it will work."
Of course, 99+ percent of the time, this is sufficient. Now
comes the customer who believes he has faithfully followed
the recipe . . . but the cake falls. All the ingredients
have been checked by the supplier and pronounced golden . . .
yet repeated attempts to secure the desired behavior
fail.
In this case, there are no customer adjustments to be
made. The system fails not in terms of loss-of-precision
or intermittent behavior . . . but in a gross and spectacular
way.
Assuming you've checked, rechecked and DOUBLE CHECKED
the installation, it's time to get the designer's attention.
When presented with a set of symptoms for malfunction, one
of my most powerful diagnostic tools is to deduce how I
would "modify" an otherwise working system to produce the
same behavior. A sort of reversed application of Failure Mode
Effects Analysis. Instead of analyzing how the system behaves
when a single component experiences any of the failures unique
to it's physics, were saying that it's our desire to produce
the behavior noted. Which components would be changed and in
what way to deliberately produce that result?
It seems that your communications with the manufacturer
to date have NOT been with an individual capable of doing that
kind of analysis. So, with all parties having conducted due
diligence to the best of their abilities, it's time to ask
the supplier to bring in folks who can take this investigation
to a more detailed level. It may require the attention of
the individual(s) who designed the system . . . what ever it
takes is the responsibility of the supplier.
One hopes that describing the noted behavior to the correct
individual produces an answer like, "Oh, if you've flipped
the wires between pins 3 and 16, that's what happens." Then
you can make your apologies for taking up their valuable time
with something so silly . . . and go fix the problem. But
that's the way the game is played between willing and able
suppliers of products to hopeful and perhaps even loyal
consumers.
My recommendation is that you check the wiring one more
time . . . enlist the assistance of a second pair of eyes.
When you're sure the installation is golden, get back with
the supplier. Include this note along with your inquiry.
Let's make it clear this time that the assistance of the
'right' individual is needed, the one who KNOWS about that
thing with pins 3 and 16 . . . or perhaps something inside
the device over which you're not expected to have control.
The physics behind this problem are inviolate. The answer
is going to be stone simple. But it will not be revealed
by individuals with less than an intimate understanding
of how the system works irrespective of who has ultimate
responsibility for the little-bit-that-doesn't-fit.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>
> From the Mixonline link:
>
>>>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
>result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
>amplification device was born.<<
>
>Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
>Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
Yes . . . let's hope the writer stuck that in to see
if you were really reading and understanding the
words and the physics they described . . .
>Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
>
>Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
EVERYTHING ANYONE WRITES is fair game for critical
review. Mistakes of gross error and misunderstanding
happen all the time. I think I've offered here on
the List, my own perceptions and appreciation for
standing at the front of the room in a good critical
review. It's win-win: either my design and ideas are
validated . . . or a bad idea is prevented from going
to production.
I'm working on a white paper for my managers that
describes the functional IR&D effort. Too many folks
with decision making responsibility view the IR&D
FACILITY as a collection of plant, tools, inventory,
and a budget . . . they're really proud of an air-
conditioned, well lit room full of shiny tools and
bins full of parts. I'm attempting to help them understand
that real IR&D happens in a community of individuals
who INHABIT such a facility. It's a cross-fertilization
of ideas filtered though the skills and understanding
of several individuals that makes the magic of IR&D
really happen. The facility is useful (and can even
be tracked on the balance sheet), but the real value
resides in an intangible collection of skill and a
willingness of individuals to use it that makes the
IR&D effort live or die. There's an audio track I'll
invite you to listen to at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Temp/Virgil_Elings-Look_at_the_Big_Picture.mp3
I would LOVE to work for and with this guy. When it
comes to getting past the BS and doing real science
that leads to useful production, he's "da man!".
We're all doing IR&D here. The 'net is a huge resource
of data, a great deal of which is intended to entertain
or convince you to buy something. And yes, even attempts
at good teaching will have errors. But it's the
COMMUNITY of researchers here on the List that provides
the necessary filtering and perspective to discover
simple-ideas for assembly into new inventions based on
a common understanding.
Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
of interested individuals. Good catch!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>
> > http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
>
>This is in no way intended to demean or diminish De Forest's
>accomplishments, however......
>
>"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the
>controlling gravitational field of the moon.... I am bold enough to
>say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of
>all future advances."
>
>- Dr. Lee De Forest, famous engineer, 1957
>
>I would add that perhaps one should stick to topics they know
>well. Dr. De Forest obviously understood the electron's basic
>uses far better than he did the future use of those same
>"particles" and the devices they would spawn, enabling the very
>thing he predicted would not happen to become possible. It's
>always a point of some amazement to me just how limited a
>capacity most people have in understanding what the future
>holds. As for me, I wish I knew something......anything......
Your observation serves to illustrate one of the
points in my IR&D White Paper. The most talented
among us are still subject to the foibles of the
human condition. Another example:
"In science there is only physics; all the rest is stamp collecting."
[If a ball, say of water or glass] "as large as a football, were
to be magnified up to the size of the earth, each constituent
molecule being magnified in the same proportion, the magnified
structure would be more coarse-grained than a heap of shot, but
probably less coarse-grained than a heap of footballs."
and
"If you can not measure it, you can not improve it."
These ideas were offered by Lord Kelvin in the late
1800's. He made huge contributions to the understanding
of physics. But the same individual was observed to
say,
"X-rays will prove to be a hoax."
"Wireless [telegraphy] is all very well but I'd rather send
a message by a boy on a pony!"
"Radio has no future."
and when Writing to Niagara Falls Power Company he said,
"Trust you will avoid the gigantic mistake of alternating current."
As a society we are too willing to brush aside
the talents and contributions of very willing and
able individuals based on some past transgression
or ill-conceived utterance. But then, few in society
have understanding or ability to participate in
an "IR&D community". Were it not for those few
individuals in our history, we would not be
convening here on this List to discover and share
better ways to build airplanes . . . indeed, there would
be no Internet upon which we might convene anything.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Unusual opportunity |
On some other tasks, I've been using some platinum
resistance temperature sensors that are renowned for
their accuracy. I found some devices from China offered
on Ebay and ordered a few to try. See:
http://tinyurl.com/y25z6x
Of course I can't evaluate ruggedness without formal
testing but the electrical performance of these critters
is as-advertised and their appearance suggests good
construction. I just ordered a few more. A heads-up for
some of the techno-wiennies out there.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > From the Mixonline link:
> >
> >>>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
> >result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
> >amplification device was born.<<
> >
> >Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
> >Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
>
> Yes . . . let's hope the writer stuck that in to see
> if you were really reading and understanding the
> words and the physics they described . . .
>
>
> >Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
> >
> >Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
>
> EVERYTHING ANYONE WRITES is fair game for critical
> review. Mistakes of gross error and misunderstanding
> happen all the time. I think I've offered here on
> the List, my own perceptions and appreciation for
> standing at the front of the room in a good critical
> review. It's win-win: either my design and ideas are
> validated . . . or a bad idea is prevented from going
> to production.
>
>
> Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> of interested individuals. Good catch!
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
original description.
Bob W.
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Banning? |
Totally agree with Bob's response.
I just hate listening to these (they must be) liberals rattle on and on.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Another Banning?
>Nope. I don't agree with Barry's rant. He was grossly off track.
>I had no idea what he was talking about during most of it.
>I certainly don't remember his musings of earlier. I doubt
>anyone does - except Barry. Regardless, I also don't agree to
>the banning of people from this forum.
They've been asked to leave other forums too Stan.
>Barry contributes significantly to my learning and I like
>to hear his comments. If I don't like what I hear, I
>move on to the next individual's comments. I didn't like
>Barry's recent rant. I moved on to the next entry.
>Paul and George also contributed significantly to the discussions.
>But, we'll never know what their latest contributions might entail.
So anyone can say anything and it's okay with you
as long as they sprinkle the occasional "nugget"
of good stuff . . . and how do you KNOW it's
good stuff? Not once did and of the gentlemen in question
explain their respective rants in simple-ideas
that anyone can grasp, appreciate and use based
on personal understanding. If you find it sufficient
to take their advice as-is, you're certainly free
to communicate with them directly . . . but if
they choose to pour out "data" without also being
a teacher, then there's no basis for deducing that
their offerings are anything but self serving
propaganda.
>I guess we'll all have to live with the bannings
>until/unless we start a blog/forum of our own.
You don't read well sir . . . nobody has been
"banned" . . . but I'm told that that IS an
option. But everything from giant corporations to
new religions have been splintered off from other
groups. As I mentioned, Usenet is ready, willing
and able to accept whatever form and function
of words you desire. Anyone can start a Usenet
group and nobody here will discourage you
from doing it if you find the atmosphere here
stifling or oppressive.
>Regarding your last paragraph, I didn't realize there
>was a time before you got here. I must have joined after
>you arrived.
The Matronics forums existed long before the
AeroElectric-List. Read the periodically published
FAQ and mission statement published by Matt
and you'll understand that my simple request for
Barry to comport himself in the manner of a gentleman
comes from Matronics List Policies.
My question to you sir still stands. Is it
your mission here to help us improve on the
best we know how to do . . . or to belabor
the fact that an unruly participant got
his wrists slapped?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
Doug at SteinAir answered this for me just two weeks ago. For my stack,
Dual SL-30's and a 327, they have the ability to auto dim with a sensor.
But they also have the ability to be connected to a manual dimmer if you
want, just not both at the same time. There is a configuration option
that you select. He recommended that I try it in the auto mode, and if I
am not happy with it, then put it in manual for adjustment. Give Stein a
call, and they are happy to work with you in setting this up, they are
good people and willing to help anyone, that is why I chose to us them.
Dan Lloyd
RV10E (N289DT)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Byrne
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA340 Wiring
Listers
I had my radio looms made for me. As well as the +12V for the GMA340 I
have
1 or maybe 2 wires marked GMA340 lighting +12.
Do I wire these direct to power or do they need to go to a lighting
dimmer.
Was hoping the GMA 340 had its own internal lighting dimmer.
>From memory I also have the same situation with the GTX327
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David M." <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unusual opportunity |
Beware of the "metallurgy" of Chinese products. They are generally very bad.
Not to mention they still murder Americans, threaten us with nuclear
holocaust once a quarter, and still have our MD's working as shoe
manufacturer slaves.
David M.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List me
> ed by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> On some other tasks, I've been using some platinum
> resistance temperature sensors that are renowned for
> their accuracy. I found some devices from China offered
> on Ebay and ordered a few to try. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y25z6x
>
> Of course I can't evaluate ruggedness without formal
> testing but the electrical performance of these critters
> is as-advertised and their appearance suggests good
> construction. I just ordered a few more. A heads-up for
> some of the techno-wiennies out there.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Windhorn" <N1DeltaWhiskey(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans |
Eric, et al,
I didn't want to write a dissertation on the original question asked which
related to safe implementation of a fan for an enclosed spray room. As Eric
has guided us, there is a plethora of information on explosions and
explosive atmospheres. But my perception of the intent of the temporary
spray booth was to successfully complete painting an airplane. Do we need
to read multi-hundred page books to determine whether we can do this safely
or not?
Back to basics:
1) Assume we will use a flammable based paint. Otherwise, most of the rest
of this discussion is not too important.
2) We will assume the enclosed area for painting is relatively air tight.
If it is not, make sure there is no hot electrical outside the are within 5
ft. of the floor.
3) Further assume the purpose of the booth is to reduce dust that will
contaminate the paint job, and to keep undesirable vapors and particles away
from energy sources (static, electrical arcing as is switches, hot surfaces
as in furnaces, or open flame as in a multitude of appliances) as may be
appropriate.
4) I am assuming the builder of the booth is astute enough to know not to
put electrical equipment inside the booth, including lights. He also has
enough sense to ground discharge nozzles to prevent static buildup. This
activity is not for idiots.
5) The "booth" should consist of 3 parts - the activity room, an air supply
plenum, and an exhaust plenum. The interface between the supply plenum and
the activity room will be at the top of the latter. The interface between
the activity area and the exhaust plenum will be at floor level. Both
interfaces will consist of filters. Both plenums will be fed from, or
discharge to, outside the building which contains our booth.
6) Given 5, any fan of adequate volumetric capacity will work (remember, one
complete air change every 5 min.). It will be switched on before entering
the booth, and off after departing, because the switch is outside the booth.
There are few reasons to be concerned with explosive vapors migrating to the
fan because they are heavier than air and will exit via the exhaust plenum
even if the fan is off. (One "safe" industrial approach is to eliminate
electrical equipment within 5' of an open faced spray booth, and within 15'
for a height of 5' off the floor.)
The one exception I can think of would be related to airflow through the
booth in the opposite direction caused by wind outside the building.
Appropriate arrangement of the intake and exhaust areas should mitigate this
(back draft dampers might be considered if this is perceived to be a
problem).
7) With adequate airflow through the activity area, a general "fog" will not
occur. If it does, stop spraying and figure out why!
8) Have you gotten zapped from static today? If so, you might want to
postpone your spray activity to another day as one added precaution.
If steps 1-8 are addressed, your chances for an explosion are next to
nothing. These precautions are easy to take and make good sense. They also
are not expensive. Going down the road of intrinsically safe or explosion
proof equipment does not make good sense given the purpose of our temporary
installation. If you think you need to do more than the above, I would
highly recommend not using a flammable solvent based paint.
Regards,
Doug Windhorn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, 26 October, 2006 8:02
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
>
>
> Guys!.....whoa.
>
> Far be it for me to be the voice of reason. (I was 18-years old in
> 1965...you get the picture.) But this discussion of explosion proof
> painting is Way Overboard and potentially dangerous. Here's why.
>
> Copy and paste this search field into Google: paint
> xplosion -"explosion
> proof" -projector -tshirt -Perplex -sony -art -youtube -"you
> tube" -photoshop -"T-shirt" The minus terms eliminate a lot of
> non-relevant stuff.
>
> Then answer the following--
>
> 1) Do you have ANY knowledge of a painting accident/explosion with a setup
> similar to what you intend to use?
>
> 2) Do published reports cite extenuating reasons for the accident--natural
> gas-fired heaters, pools of solvent, toluene, open flame?
>
> My concern is that list reader will be so afraid of fans that they may
> elect not to risk using them. ANY box fan will be fine. The on/off switch
> is the only sparker. Don't allow the booth to fill with a cloud of spray.
> Don't spray solvent through the gun into the open. Use a rag.
>
> Again. Be safe but not silly.
>
> "Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in."
> ---Leonard Cohen
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70334#70334
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Off subject - auto battery setup |
There has been an interesting discussion of cheap PC-680 batteries
(Oddessy knockoffs) on another list. The cost is less than $30. I'm
not sure I want to run one in my airplane, but my Jeep needs a new
battery. I'm considering wiring two of these cheap PC-680s in
parallel and using them to replace the Sears lead acid auto battery
in the Jeep. The result should be as potent as the Sears Battery for
less money, take up less space, and avoid the cable corrosion problem
that has plagued my Jeep ever since I bought it. Is there anything
wrong with this idea?
Charlie
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
Hello,
I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
+99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load and
see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be nothing
that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Verwey " <bonanza(at)vodamail.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans |
Doug, this post goes into my archives. Some subtle points that I did not give much
thought to! Thanks for the
heads up! That is why I love the list- always learning!
Bob Verwey
A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Doug Windhorn
Sent: 28 October 2006 03:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
-->
Eric, et al,
I didn't want to write a dissertation on the original question asked which related
to safe implementation of a
fan for an enclosed spray room. As Eric has guided us, there is a plethora of
information on explosions and
explosive atmospheres. But my perception of the intent of the temporary spray
booth was to successfully
complete painting an airplane. Do we need to read multi-hundred page books to
determine whether we can do
this safely or not?
Back to basics:
1) Assume we will use a flammable based paint. Otherwise, most of the rest of
this discussion is not too
important.
2) We will assume the enclosed area for painting is relatively air tight.
If it is not, make sure there is no hot electrical outside the are within 5 ft.
of the floor.
3) Further assume the purpose of the booth is to reduce dust that will contaminate
the paint job, and to keep
undesirable vapors and particles away from energy sources (static, electrical arcing
as is switches, hot
surfaces as in furnaces, or open flame as in a multitude of appliances) as may
be appropriate.
4) I am assuming the builder of the booth is astute enough to know not to put electrical
equipment inside the
booth, including lights. He also has enough sense to ground discharge nozzles
to prevent static buildup.
This activity is not for idiots.
5) The "booth" should consist of 3 parts - the activity room, an air supply plenum,
and an exhaust plenum. The
interface between the supply plenum and the activity room will be at the top of
the latter. The interface
between the activity area and the exhaust plenum will be at floor level. Both
interfaces will consist of
filters. Both plenums will be fed from, or discharge to, outside the building which
contains our booth.
6) Given 5, any fan of adequate volumetric capacity will work (remember, one complete
air change every 5
min.). It will be switched on before entering the booth, and off after departing,
because the switch is
outside the booth.
There are few reasons to be concerned with explosive vapors migrating to the fan
because they are heavier than
air and will exit via the exhaust plenum even if the fan is off. (One "safe" industrial
approach is to
eliminate electrical equipment within 5' of an open faced spray booth, and within
15'
for a height of 5' off the floor.)
The one exception I can think of would be related to airflow through the booth
in the opposite direction
caused by wind outside the building.
Appropriate arrangement of the intake and exhaust areas should mitigate this (back
draft dampers might be
considered if this is perceived to be a problem).
7) With adequate airflow through the activity area, a general "fog" will not occur.
If it does, stop spraying
and figure out why!
8) Have you gotten zapped from static today? If so, you might want to postpone
your spray activity to another
day as one added precaution.
If steps 1-8 are addressed, your chances for an explosion are next to nothing.
These precautions are easy to
take and make good sense. They also are not expensive. Going down the road of
intrinsically safe or explosion
proof equipment does not make good sense given the purpose of our temporary installation.
If you think you
need to do more than the above, I would highly recommend not using a flammable
solvent based paint.
Regards,
Doug Windhorn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, 26 October, 2006 8:02
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
>
>
> Guys!.....whoa.
>
> Far be it for me to be the voice of reason. (I was 18-years old in
> 1965...you get the picture.) But this discussion of explosion proof
> painting is Way Overboard and potentially dangerous. Here's why.
>
> Copy and paste this search field into Google: paint
> xplosion -"explosion
> proof" -projector -tshirt -Perplex -sony -art -youtube -"you
> tube" -photoshop -"T-shirt" The minus terms eliminate a lot of
> non-relevant stuff.
>
> Then answer the following--
>
> 1) Do you have ANY knowledge of a painting accident/explosion with a setup
> similar to what you intend to use?
>
> 2) Do published reports cite extenuating reasons for the accident--natural
> gas-fired heaters, pools of solvent, toluene, open flame?
>
> My concern is that list reader will be so afraid of fans that they may
> elect not to risk using them. ANY box fan will be fine. The on/off switch
> is the only sparker. Don't allow the booth to fill with a cloud of spray.
> Don't spray solvent through the gun into the open. Use a rag.
>
> Again. Be safe but not silly.
>
> "Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in."
> ---Leonard Cohen
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70334#70334
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses......Split Rockers |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start
my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor.
Thanks for any advise.
Eric Newton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
> <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
> from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
> main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
> glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
> +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
> the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load
> and
> see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be
> nothing
> that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
> I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)core.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot heatsinks |
Brian,
I had the same concern, attached is a picture of my solution. I would be
concerned if you are covering the heat sink with a rubber boot or
insulation because that would greatly reduce its effectiveness. The
picture is of a plastic cover that protects both the heat sink and the
connections from accidental contact with other conductors.
Tim Shankland
Brian Meyette wrote:
> I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode
> package design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the
> heatsink is electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v
> connections, I have covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple
> layers of liquid insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks,
> and the +12v passing through them, being exposed. It would defeat the
> purpose of the heatsink if I cover them with liquid insulation. I
> was thinking perhaps I could build a perforated Plexiglas or
> fiberglass box to put over them. What do you electrical gurus think
> about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are +12v?
>
> brian
>
> http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JACK LOCKAMY" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Back-up Alternator |
Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my
SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, internally regulated alternator, failure! (The
first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a cooling blast tube aimed
at the rear of the alternator and still don't know why these alternators
keep failing. Since it was a NAPA rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684
with a three-year warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced
today for FREE!
I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally at night, For this
reason, I am concerned with alternator failures and have decided to
install a back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on my
Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine....
Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I normally run with about
14-18 AMP loads and figure I need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10
AMPS but lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up alternator for my
electrical load during night/IFR flight.
Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 architecture with a
Van's 60-AMP internally regulated alternator. If I purchase and
install the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the Dynon EMS-10
firewall mounted shunt or connect the SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680
battery directly in case the Van's recommended alternator takes another
crap? Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able to determine
if there was a problem with their wiring directions or if the #14684
alternators were the problem here.
BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying for approx. 1:45
minutes after the alternator failed. I was using flight following as
usual and informed them that I had an alternator failure and would
prefer to use the IDENT button on my King KT-76A transponder to
acknowledge freq changes and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice
in the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. This worked
extremely well and I wasn't forced to use un-necessary volts using my
transmit button on Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I
was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for almost 2-hours and I
landed with 11.5 volts in the PC-680. NOTE: I was prepared to squawk
7600 and had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No Radio), I would
squawk 7600, and would be expecting light signals (flashing green
light?) from Camarillo Tower for landing permission. If you inform
Center of your problem, they will assist. When I first informed
Albuquerque Center of my alternator problem, the controller asked if I
was declaring an emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough battery
voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I
was switched to more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not once
was I required to key the radio... just hit the IDENT button on the
transponder and each controller acknowledged.... "Ident observed".
Saves the juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK ALT-HOLD A/P,
ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor,
King KT-76A Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running the
entire time....
Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge
radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
reserves.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N174JL 245 hrs
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy@verizon,net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron dewees <rdewees(at)mindspring.com> |
I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two years
and concur with several of the results others have mentioned-- The
transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts and I
have no complaints with it. The receiver audio appears to be very
selective though. Many signals are clear and easily understandable,
while others-- towers and ATC are often distorted and difficult to
understand. I have tried various headsets and my Lightspeed ANR is the
best but there are still 30 percent of signals that are very difficult
to understand. I wonder if the percent of distortion in the audio
amplifier is high or there is an overdriven stage in the receiver
causing problems. I read a great review of the radio before I bought it
but nothing in the last few years. I did notice that when I was trying
it out on the ground without the engine running it was very voltage
sensitive. If the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver
volume was very low to almost unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's
volume to voltage response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the
panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage is no issue. Wonder if anyone
has ideas on distorted audio. The open-mike intercom is a whole other
issue. If both headsets aren't the same impedance one hears loud audio
and the other can't hear well at all. Guess it's one of the compromises
of a cheap integrated intecom.
Thanks
Ron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Sultzbach <endspeed(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-up Alternator |
Hi Jack,
The SD-20 weighs 5.72 lbs. according to the B&C
drawing SD20 last revised 2/24/03.
Bob Sultzbach
--- JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
> Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A
> (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my SECOND, Van's 60-AMP,
> internally regulated alternator, failure! (The
> first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a
> cooling blast tube aimed at the rear of the
> alternator and still don't know why these
> alternators keep failing. Since it was a NAPA
> rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684 with a three-year
> warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced
> today for FREE!
>
> I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally
> at night, For this reason, I am concerned with
> alternator failures and have decided to install a
> back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on
> my Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine....
>
> Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I
> normally run with about 14-18 AMP loads and figure I
> need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10 AMPS but
> lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up
> alternator for my electrical load during night/IFR
> flight.
>
> Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11
> architecture with a Van's 60-AMP internally
> regulated alternator. If I purchase and install
> the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the
> Dynon EMS-10 firewall mounted shunt or connect the
> SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680 battery directly in case
> the Van's recommended alternator takes another crap?
> Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able
> to determine if there was a problem with their
> wiring directions or if the #14684 alternators were
> the problem here.
>
> BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying
> for approx. 1:45 minutes after the alternator
> failed. I was using flight following as usual and
> informed them that I had an alternator failure and
> would prefer to use the IDENT button on my King
> KT-76A transponder to acknowledge freq changes
> and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice in
> the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio.
> This worked extremely well and I wasn't forced to
> use un-necessary volts using my transmit button on
> Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I
> was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for
> almost 2-hours and I landed with 11.5 volts in the
> PC-680. NOTE: I was prepared to squawk 7600 and
> had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No
> Radio), I would squawk 7600, and would be expecting
> light signals (flashing green light?) from Camarillo
> Tower for landing permission. If you inform Center
> of your problem, they will assist. When I first
> informed Albuquerque Center of my alternator
> problem, the controller asked if I was declaring an
> emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough
> battery voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick
> Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I was switched to
> more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not
> once was I required to key the radio... just hit the
> IDENT button on the transponder and each controller
> acknowledged.... "Ident observed". Saves the
> juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK
> ALT-HOLD A/P, ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON
> EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor, King KT-76A
> Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running
> the entire time....
>
> Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your
> transponder to acknowledge radio calls rather than
> transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
> reserves.
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> RV-7A N174JL 245 hrs
> www.jacklockamy.com
> jacklockamy@verizon,net
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low
PC-to-Phone call rates
(http://voice.yahoo.com)
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(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-up Alternator |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator
Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my
SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, internally regulated alternator, failure! (The first
alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a cooling blast tube aimed at the
rear of the alternator and still don't know why these alternators keep
failing. Since it was a NAPA rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684 with a
three-year warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced today for FREE!
It's nice that the expense is so accommodating . . . but
a boat-load of no-cost alternators may well forever fall
short of design goals.
I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally at night, For this
reason, I am concerned with alternator failures and have decided to install
a back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on my Lycoming
0-320/conical mount engine....
It's been a perennial recommendation here on the List
that no vacuum pump pad should go wasting with a cover
plate on it.
Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I normally run with about
14-18 AMP loads and figure I need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10 AMPS
but lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up alternator for my
electrical load during night/IFR flight.
. . . but why support "normal" loads? How much stuff do you
really need during the en route phase of flight to get airport
of intended destination in sight with a fully charged battery
to assist the standby alternator in running whatever electro-whizzies
you wish for descent and approach to landing?
Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 architecture with a Van's
60-AMP internally regulated alternator. If I purchase and install the B&C
SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the Dynon EMS-10 firewall mounted
shunt or connect the SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680 battery directly in case
the Van's recommended alternator takes another crap? Spoke with Gus at
Van's on Thursday and wasn't able to determine if there was a problem with
their wiring directions or if the #14684 alternators were the problem here.
Why are you choosing to stay with the brand/model of alternator
sold/recommended by Van's? We KNOW that other brands bolted to
Lycoming engines have produced exemplary service records. Aside
from weak design and/or poor workmanship, there no reason that
an alternator should not run for TBO on the engine. It would seem
prudent that the first order of the day is to replace a demonstrably
poor performing alternator.
BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying for approx. 1:45 minutes
after the alternator failed. I was using flight following as usual and
informed them that I had an alternator failure and would prefer to use the
IDENT button on my King KT-76A transponder to acknowledge freq changes
and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice in the battery when
transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. This worked extremely well and I wasn't
forced to use un-necessary volts using my transmit button on
Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I was able to conserve
valuable battery voltage for almost 2-hours and I landed with 11.5 volts in
the PC-680.
The energy needed to occasionally transmit is a trivial
part of the total required for comfortable continuation
of flight. While "helpful" to a tiny degree it was not
necessary.
If you are running Z-11, what was your predicted battery
only endurance value?
NOTE: I was prepared to squawk 7600 and had informed 'Center' that if I
went NORDO (No Radio), I would squawk 7600, and would be expecting light
signals (flashing green light?) from Camarillo Tower for landing
permission. If you inform Center of your problem, they will assist. When
I first informed Albuquerque Center of my alternator problem, the
controller asked if I was declaring an emergency. My reply was "No... I
have enough battery voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick Magnetos) and
MONITOR Comm-1". I was switched to more than 6-7 different sector
controllers and not once was I required to key the radio... just hit the
IDENT button on the transponder and each controller acknowledged.... "Ident
observed". Saves the juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK
ALT-HOLD A/P, ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10
Engine monitor, King KT-76A Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS
running the entire time....
Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge radio
calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery reserves.
Your experience was much more tense than it needed
to be. You have too much electro-stuff running in the
endurance mode. Your choice to use IDENT for
communication with the ground was immaterial to the
outcome of your experience. The fact that you were
so worried about outcome that you felt compelled to save a
few watt-minutes of energy suggests that the outcome
was not a sure bet in your own mind . . . i.e. you were
not sure by reason of satisfied design goals that the
battery would get you there sans alternator.
I respectfully suggest that a killobuck SD-20 installation
that adds about 8# to the airplane is not as practical as
spending a similar amount of money for a main alternator
with an exemplary track record (no or small weigh penalty).
Back it up with an 8A alternator (also exemplary track
record) for a 3.5# weight penalty. Tailor loads
on the endurance bus so in the now unlikely event that
the main alternator craps, you have proven, designed-in
capabilities to get where you want to go with nary
second thought about punching the MIC button to tell
the ground, "everything is cool."
Main alternator performance is fundamental to the "no-
sweat design" along with a well maintained RG battery. Piling
a high dollar BandAid on a system with demonstrably
flawed fundamentals is only going to have you flying along
wondering when the "next interesting flight" is going to
happen. How about designing for "never"?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/28/2006 5:23:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
rdewees(at)mindspring.com writes:
If the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver
volume was very low to almost unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's
volume to voltage response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the
panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage is no issue.
>>>
Now THAT is very interesting- since my 760 is on the E-bus, it's normal
supply voltage is typically 12.5 volts. Next time I'm trying to communicate with
another plane and the reception is crappy, I'll flip the e-bus switch and see
if things improve- good observation!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Unplug the mikes of your head sets, see if it makes any
difference. Many intercoms VOX turn the audio input on for both
mikes at the same time rather than just the one activating the
VOX. The makes the background noise floor twice as high. Using a
head set with a dynamic mikes will substantially increase the
noise, headsets the electret mike made a world of
difference. Wonder how I learned this....
jerb
At 05:19 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote:
>
>I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two
>years and concur with several of the results others have mentioned--
>The transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts
>and I have no complaints with it. The receiver audio appears to be
>very selective though. Many signals are clear and easily
>understandable, while others-- towers and ATC are often distorted
>and difficult to understand. I have tried various headsets and my
>Lightspeed ANR is the best but there are still 30 percent of signals
>that are very difficult to understand. I wonder if the percent of
>distortion in the audio amplifier is high or there is an overdriven
>stage in the receiver causing problems. I read a great review of
>the radio before I bought it but nothing in the last few years. I
>did notice that when I was trying it out on the ground without the
>engine running it was very voltage sensitive. If the input voltage
>was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very low to almost
>unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage
>response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter
>reads 14 so low voltage is no issue. Wonder if anyone has ideas on
>distorted audio. The open-mike intercom is a whole other
>issue. If both headsets aren't the same impedance one hears loud
>audio and the other can't hear well at all. Guess it's one of the
>compromises of a cheap integrated intecom. Thanks
>Ron
>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re Dead Horses.....Split Rockers |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Dead Horses.....Spit Rockers |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Missing message text (dead horse topic) |
Here is cut-paste of Dwights message that came through blank on the A-list
(at least it did to me and him). I e-mailed him direct and he sent to me.
Added here to further the discussion.
Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dwights intended posting:
I'm not sure what's happening, but I reposted today after seeing my text
didn't go through, but apparently something at Matronics is stripping my text.
Anyway here is what I tried to post. Maybe you can have better luck than me!
For some reason the text from the message I sent to the forum yesterday
didn't go through. So here it is again.
Bob,
I agree with some of the points you provide in your assessment of the split
rocker master switch, but I also think there were a few points that are
relevant that were not included which may favor this switch over the S700-2-10.
1) The uniqueness of the split rocker vs. the toggle switches on the panel
helps distinguish it as one you will not normally be operating except at
start-up and shut-down, lessening the chances of unintentional use during a high
stress situation in a panel full of similar style switches. I've heard it
suggested that you should try to break the switches up into grouping of no more
that
3-4 toggles in a group, but some panel styles don't lend themselves to having
that much real estate available for switches, so using a different style switch
can help accomplish the same result.
2) The S700-2-10 itself is a unique enough switch that isn't stocked in most
places that normally carry toggle switches. If a failure of it occurs while on
a cross country trip, it is probably less likely to be found at any average
airport with mechanical services available, than a split rocker master that is
commonly used in most certified aircraft.
3) While it shouldn't be the overriding concern, it is one of the basis of
this forum to build economically as well as safe. I don't know the history of
the pricing on the S700-2-10 but currently B&C's price on it is $19.50. With a
quick Google search for the split master, I found a price range of $15 - $19.
I have gleaned much from both your book and this forum, and hope to be able
to learn only a small fraction of what you have to offer, but I think your bias
against split master switches doesn't warrant quite the level of disdain you
appear to have for it.
I hope you will take these comments in the manner it was
intended......another viewpoint, hopefully providing some additional data points
to consider in
the decision making process.
Thanks for a great forum!
Dustin Paulson
Building a GlaStar with a split master.
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?11X358218#s700-2-10
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/cessnasplit.php
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=S-1994-1-1&Category=38940ec0-
b260-4e9f-a23c-b80ff8e89c67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses.....Spit Rockers |
Dustin,
There is something about the way your Outlook Express is encoding the
message that causes it to appear blank. I can read your message just
fine if I view as raw source. You might try changing your Outlook
encoding to be "Plain Text".
Best Regards,
Steve Thomas
____________________________________________________________________
On Oct 29, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Dustin Paulson wrote:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>Comments/Questions: Bob, bought your book and am reading it. Also got
>somehow a copy of EXP-Bus 99 discussion in which your view of EXP-Bus was
>not overly favorable. Am building a no vacume IFR F1 Rocket with Advanced
>avionics combined engine/efis , Dynon10 EFIS backup, ps 8000(need marker
>beacon or would use yuour isolator), becker transponder and com2
>DigiflightIIVSGV and a motion800 with somebody's moving map.
>
>Have bought the fuseblock vs breaker concept but think the EXP-BUS is a
>posibility - have you changed your mind in the last 6 years.
>Also - found one good case for circut breaker - Lowered the flaps on my
>210 a few years ago a bit over suggested speed and they wouldn't
>retract. Somehow had presence of mind to check circut breaker -was poped
>too much force on motor due to speed. Reset and no further drama.
The EXP_Bus probably performs as advertised and is not
'unsafe' . . . but it's what-you-see-is-what-you-get.
Too many switches, too few switches, doesn't offer an
e-bus . . . you're stuck.
If the EXP_Bus does exactly what you want, then no problem.
If you want ot do something different, it's not easy. Further,
the cost of the Exp_Bus is about 2x what it costs to do
EXACTLY what you want with discrete parts. Further, since
you've purchased all your parts individually, you know right
were to get spares for future maintenance.
I think the EXP_Bus is poor value and restricts options
for exploiting any of the architectures in the book.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Back-up Alternator |
10/29/2006
Responding to a posting From: "JACK LOCKAMY" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net>
Hello Jack, Thank you for sharing your story with us. I sympathize with your
situation and congratulate you on its successful outcome.
You wrote: "Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to
acknowledge
radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
reserves."
I'd like to explore this recommendation a bit further. First having the
radio in receive only mode by not transmitting would definitely conserve
battery. But having the transponder on continuously would consume battery at
some higher rate than when OFF or STANDBY, even when not IDENTING, because
the transponder is being constantly interrogated and responding to external
interrogators.
Maybe the underlying assumption in your recommendation is that: A) FAR
91.215 could require one to have the transponder on, and B) ATC needs your
transponder ON and the IDENTING in order to provide any useful services,
including air traffic separation.
I guess my question is whether or not there could be a circumstance where
one would prefer to have the radio on and transmitting only as needed while
keeping the transponder OFF or in STANDBY in order to better conserve
battery?
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
PS: A review of the Odyssey battery specs shows that the PC 625 has more
overall amperage capability than the PC 680. I wonder if we should not
switch to the PC 625 at the next battery change over?
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm
PPS: Regarding using Vans recommended alternators: "Fool me once, shame on
you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
From: "JACK LOCKAMY" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator
Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my
SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, internally regulated alternator, failure! (The
first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a cooling blast tube aimed
at the rear of the alternator and still don't know why these alternators
keep failing. Since it was a NAPA rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684
with a three-year warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced
today for FREE!
I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally at night, For this
reason, I am concerned with alternator failures and have decided to
install a back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on my
Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine....
Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I normally run with about
14-18 AMP loads and figure I need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10
AMPS but lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up alternator for my
electrical load during night/IFR flight.
Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 architecture with a
Van's 60-AMP internally regulated alternator. If I purchase and
install the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the Dynon EMS-10
firewall mounted shunt or connect the SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680
battery directly in case the Van's recommended alternator takes another
crap? Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able to determine
if there was a problem with their wiring directions or if the #14684
alternators were the problem here.
BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying for approx. 1:45
minutes after the alternator failed. I was using flight following as
usual and informed them that I had an alternator failure and would
prefer to use the IDENT button on my King KT-76A transponder to
acknowledge freq changes and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice
in the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. This worked
extremely well and I wasn't forced to use un-necessary volts using my
transmit button on Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I
was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for almost 2-hours and I
landed with 11.5 volts in the PC-680. NOTE: I was prepared to squawk
7600 and had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No Radio), I would
squawk 7600, and would be expecting light signals (flashing green
light?) from Camarillo Tower for landing permission. If you inform
Center of your problem, they will assist. When I first informed
Albuquerque Center of my alternator problem, the controller asked if I
was declaring an emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough battery
voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I
was switched to more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not once
was I required to key the radio... just hit the IDENT button on the
transponder and each controller acknowledged.... "Ident observed".
Saves the juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK ALT-HOLD A/P,
ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor,
King KT-76A Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running the
entire time....
Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge
radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
reserves.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N174JL 245 hrs
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy@verizon,net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Z12 Architecture |
I have gone with the Z-12 architecture. B&C 60 Amp main and 20amp standby as
well as the necessary controllers as per Bobs architecture.
How does one test this setup?? I have heard that should I pull the field
breaker on the main alternator( with the engine running), the standby unit
will come into play.
Must I leave the 60amp off line until the engine is switched off, before re
setting??
Dave Emond
RV 10 - #40159
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back-up Alternator |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
> Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge
> radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
> reserves.
Someone please correct me if this is incorrect, but aren't most
transponders something like 200-250 watts transmit power, and most comm
radios somewhere around 5-10 watts transmit power? If so, wouldn't it
use more battery power to have the transponder transmit versus the comm
radio?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-up Alternator |
True, except that the transponder transmits for microseconds while the
comm transmits for seconds. Therefore, the average power used in
transmissions of the transponder is much less than the comm.
On the other hand, if the use of the transmission capabilities of either
of these devices would make the difference in making it to your planned
destination or not, then you better get on the ground right now!
Dick Tasker
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
>JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
>
>
>
>>Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge
>>radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
>>reserves.
>>
>>
>
>
> Someone please correct me if this is incorrect, but aren't most
>transponders something like 200-250 watts transmit power, and most comm
>radios somewhere around 5-10 watts transmit power? If so, wouldn't it
>use more battery power to have the transponder transmit versus the comm
>radio?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Dj
>
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back-up Alternator |
>
>JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
>
> > Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge
> > radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery
> > reserves.
>
>
> Someone please correct me if this is incorrect, but aren't most
>transponders something like 200-250 watts transmit power, and most comm
>radios somewhere around 5-10 watts transmit power? If so, wouldn't it
>use more battery power to have the transponder transmit versus the comm
>radio?
The transponder speaks in very narrow pulses arranged
so as to digitally identify you and report your altitude.
This is accomplished at a very low duty cycle . . . so while
PEAK power is on the order of 100-200 watts, the AVERAGE power
is less that what's consumed by most COMM transmitters while
talking. Having said that, the COMM transmitter is also
very low duty cycle. You may LISTEN to the radio for 1 hour
with at say 100 mA for a total power consumption of 0.1a x 11.5v
x 3600s is 4140 watt seconds. Your transmitter may raise this current to
say 2 amps. Assume you speak for 60 seconds total out of an
hour and we have 2 x 11.5 x 60 or 1380 watt-seconds. The 17 a.h. battery
supplying your e-bus being discharged at say 4 amps is good for
about 3 hours so 11.5v x 4a x 3hrs x 3600s = 496,800 watt seconds.
So, it's easy to see that if one has scaled their e-bus loads
to take advantage of say 75% of the battery in 3 hours (372,000
watt-seconds) then the addition of 3 minutes of "mic time" to
the mix increases total energy expenditure by about 0.3% . . .
a trivial portion of the total budget.
The same mistake is commonly made when considering energy
needed to crank an engine . . . 200+ amps for say 10 seconds
is only a tad over 20,000 watt-seconds. Only about 5% of the
total energy contained in a 17 a.h. battery.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z12 Architecture |
>
>
>
>I have gone with the Z-12 architecture. B&C 60 Amp main and 20amp standby
>as well as the necessary controllers as per Bobs architecture.
>
>How does one test this setup?? I have heard that should I pull the field
>breaker on the main alternator( with the engine running), the standby unit
>will come into play.
>
>Must I leave the 60amp off line until the engine is switched off, before
>re setting??
You need to order the Standby Regulator to go
with the SD-20. This regulator gets set for about 1 volt
below normal alternator output voltage (13.2) See
http://www.bandc.biz/Bc217.pdf
After you start the engine, leave the main alternator off
and the SD-20 should pick up the load and the "sb alt loaded"
light will come on showing it's on line. Bus voltage should
be about 13.2 at the point. Turn the main alternator on,
the light should go out and the bus voltage rises to 14.2.
See also:
http://www.bandc.biz/410Finaltest.html
http://www.bandc.biz/BC410-installinstructions.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Comcast Was Blocking Matronics Email Lists... |
Dear Listers (Specifically Comcast Listers),
For about the last two days, Comcast was blocking incoming email from the Matronics
Email Lists because their spam filters thought the mail was spam. I was
that people on Comcast are receiving List messages again.
If you are a Comcast user, you might want to email them and express your displeasure
with their Spam blocking policy, particularly as it relates to "matronics.com".
Sorry for the hassle...
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Off Topic - Source for wire wrap pins |
Hi all,
I am looking for a source for single square wire wrap posts for soldering
onto a PCB. I have trolled through Digikey without any luck. I'd
appreciate a referral if anyone knows of one.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I was scrolling through Stein Air site, and notice they sell tefzel ties.
http://www.steinair.com/cableties.htm#HEAT%20RESISTANT>
Has anyone used these where black nylon failed with good sucess?
Other comments?
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic - Source for wire wrap pins |
Not sure exactly what you want. If you want a single wirewrap pin that
can be swaged into a hole in a PCB or breadboard (like you used to be
able to find in many places) I do not know where to find them any more
(except in my miscellaneous parts bin). If you are willing to settle
for a strip of pins that you can break or cut apart then these might
work for you (they are 0.025 sq. pins) :
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=929834-05-36virtualkey51750000virtualkey517-834-05-36
They are available in several different pin lengths and in gold or tin.
If the URL above doesn't work then go to www.mouser.com and enter
517-834-05-36 in the search window.
Dick Tasker
Paul McAllister wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am looking for a source for single square wire wrap posts for soldering
>onto a PCB. I have trolled through Digikey without any luck. I'd
>appreciate a referral if anyone knows of one.
>
>Thanks, Paul
>
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Big Red Split Rockers |
For some reason the text from the message I sent to the forum yesterday
didn't go through. So here it is again.
Bob,
I agree with some of the points you provide in your assessment of the split
rocker master switch, but I also think there were a few points that are
relevant that were not included which may favor this switch over the S700-2-10.
1) The uniqueness of the split rocker vs. the toggle switches on the panel
helps distinguish it as one you will not normally be operating except at
start-up and shut-down, lessening the chances of unintentional use during a
high stress situation in a panel full of similar style switches. I've heard
it suggested that you should try to break the switches up into grouping of
no more that 3-4 toggles in a group, but some panel styles don't lend
themselves to having that much real estate available for switches, so using
a different style switch can help accomplish the same result.
I've been working in GA light and medium sized aircraft
for over 40 years and we've got dozens of switches in every
airplane that look just like the battery and generator master
switches . . . I've never been made aware of any complaint
for not making these or any other switches 'unique' in appearance.
2) The S700-2-10 itself is a unique enough switch that isn't stocked in
most places that normally carry toggle switches. If a failure of it occurs
while on a cross country trip, it is probably less likely to be found at
any average airport with mechanical services available, than a split rocker
master that is commonly used in most certified aircraft.
But suppose you use a sprinkling of 2-5, 2-50 maybe a 1-8
and one of those switches fails on a trip? Your just as
unlikely to find one of these either. Suppose you DO crap
the battery master in ANY form, how would you get the airplane
home? I lost the keys to an airplane once and got it home
easy.
I would hope that because YOU have built and understand your
airplane that the simple failure of any component including
the battery-master isn't going to be more than a minor
inconvenience . . .
3) While it shouldn't be the overriding concern, it is one of the basis of
this forum to build economically as well as safe. I don't know the history
of the pricing on the S700-2-10 but currently B&C's price on it is $19.50.
With a quick Google search for the split master, I found a price range of
$15 - $19.
If a couple of bux drive you this hard, then by all means . . .
cut the square hole instead of drilling a nice round one.
I have gleaned much from both your book and this forum, and hope to be able
to learn only a small fraction of what you have to offer, but I think your
bias against split master switches doesn't warrant quite the level of
disdain you appear to have for it.
I hope you will take these comments in the manner it was
intended......another viewpoint, hopefully providing some additional data
points to consider in the decision making process.
Been through all of them . . . many times over the years
and it still doesn't make sense to me to have one bright
red rectangular switch battery-alternator-master stand
out from all the switches of any other style. The BIG
guys don't do it. Even the folks who use that switch in
production aircraft put it in the same row as all the
rest of the rocker switches.
Thanks for a great forum!
You're most welcome.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message |
Thanks Steve,
I'll give your suggestion a try and see if this message gets
through.........and thanks Bob for your additional comments about the split
rockers. I haven't flown any of the big iron so don't have that background
to fall back on.......it sounds likes it boils down to go with what ever
floats your boat.
> Dustin,
>
> There is something about the way your Outlook Express is encoding the
> message that causes it to appear blank. I can read your message just
> fine if I view as raw source. You might try changing your Outlook
> encoding to be "Plain Text".
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Thomas
>
>I hope you will take these comments in the manner it was
>intended......another viewpoint, hopefully providing some additional data
>points to consider in the decision making process.
Been through all of them . . . many times over the years
and it still doesn't make sense to me to have one bright
red rectangular switch battery-alternator-master stand
out from all the switches of any other style. The BIG
guys don't do it. Even the folks who use that switch in
production aircraft put it in the same row as all the
rest of the rocker switches.
>Thanks for a great forum!
You're most welcome.
Bob . . .
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message |
>
>Thanks Steve,
>
>I'll give your suggestion a try and see if this message gets
>through.........and thanks Bob for your additional comments about the
>split rockers. I haven't flown any of the big iron so don't have that
>background to fall back on.......it sounds likes it boils down to go with
>what ever floats your boat.
Absolutely! It's good that everyone here flies with
exactly what they WANT in their airplane. My hope
is that their decisions are made from understanding
and individual purpose . . . not from having been
persuaded by others.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic - Source for wire |
wrap pins
Dick,
Yes I am looking for the single wire wrap pin that can swaged into a hole in
a PCB or breadboard, but I haven't seen them around for the longest time.
I'll give the Mouser part a try if I can't find what I am looking for.
Thanks for the tip.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard E. Tasker
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: AeroElectric-List: Off Topic - Source for
wire wrap pins
Not sure exactly what you want. If you want a single wirewrap pin that
can be swaged into a hole in a PCB or breadboard (like you used to be
able to find in many places) I do not know where to find them any more
(except in my miscellaneous parts bin). If you are willing to settle
for a strip of pins that you can break or cut apart then these might
work for you (they are 0.025 sq. pins) :
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=929834-05-36virtualkey5175
0000virtualkey517-834-05-36
They are available in several different pin lengths and in gold or tin.
If the URL above doesn't work then go to www.mouser.com and enter
517-834-05-36 in the search window.
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
>from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
>main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
>glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
>+99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
>the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load and
>see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be nothing
>that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
>I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
I can think of no way to deliberately generate this behavior
with some variance of wiring. It's almost a sure bet that the little
critter is suffering from byte-farts.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off subject - auto battery setup |
>
>There has been an interesting discussion of cheap PC-680 batteries
>(Oddessy knockoffs) on another list. The cost is less than $30. I'm
>not sure I want to run one in my airplane, but my Jeep needs a new
>battery. I'm considering wiring two of these cheap PC-680s in
>parallel and using them to replace the Sears lead acid auto battery
>in the Jeep. The result should be as potent as the Sears Battery for
>less money, take up less space, and avoid the cable corrosion problem
>that has plagued my Jeep ever since I bought it. Is there anything
>wrong with this idea?
I used to get RG batteries from B&C that had been
cosmetically damaged in shipment that were paid
for by the shipper's insurance. I've run a variety
of RG batteries in my vehicles with great success.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>
>
> >
> > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
>load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
>increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
>the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
>original description.
Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Unplug the mikes of your head sets, see if it makes any difference. Many
>intercoms VOX turn the audio input on for both mikes at the same time
>rather than just the one activating the VOX. The makes the background
>noise floor twice as high. Using a head set with a dynamic mikes will
>substantially increase the noise, headsets the electret mike made a world
>of difference. Wonder how I learned this....
>jerb
>
>At 05:19 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two years and
>>concur with several of the results others have mentioned-- The
>>transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts and I
>>have no complaints with it.
RF power output for this radio is rated at 4w which is
quite adequate for VHF Comm applications in aircraft.
>> The receiver audio appears to be very selective though. Many signals
>> are clear and easily understandable, while others-- towers and ATC are
>> often distorted and difficult to understand. I have tried various
>> headsets and my Lightspeed ANR is the best but there are still 30
>> percent of signals that are very difficult to understand. I wonder if
>> the percent of distortion in the audio amplifier is high or there is an
>> overdriven stage in the receiver causing problems.
Audio amplifier quality doesn't vary with circumstance.
If it's okay some times and not okay other times, there's
an external force or some other variable at work . . .
>> I read a great review of the radio before I bought it but nothing in
>> the last few years. I did notice that when I was trying it out on the
>> ground without the engine running it was very voltage sensitive. If
>> the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very
>> low to almost unaudable.
The best way to explore this is with a bench check.
The radio needs to be operated under controlled conditions
while varying only one condition at a time.
>> It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage response between 12
>> and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage
>> is no issue. Wonder if anyone has ideas on distorted audio. The
>> open-mike intercom is a whole other issue. If both headsets aren't the
>> same impedance one hears loud audio and the other can't hear well at
>> all. Guess it's one of the compromises of a cheap integrated intecom.
Many intercoms, integrated or not will produce variable
results with different brands of headsets. When I was
more in-the-business, unmatched headsets was the #1
performance issue in audio systems. I did an audio
system specification for the Gates-Piaggio GP180 about
25 years ago that called for totally independent microphone
amplifiers with a small degree of volume leveling. The
output impedance of the headphone amplifiers was very
low so that variability in one headset does not produce
noticeable effects in other headsets. I had to take that
approach because products of choice at that time were
already showing deficiencies in tolerating headset
variability. It CAN be done . . . but almost nobody
does it.
If you want your radio bench checked, you can mail
it to me and I can quantify some of the variables you've
hypothesized about and at least confirm or eliminate
the radio as the root cause of your dissatisfaction.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net> |
| Subject: | Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
I just went through installing my GRT HE sensor for my GRT EIS, so I have
the latest info on this from GRT.
First, a couple questions I had for them about it; you can mount it on or
near metal without it affecting the reading. For example, you could mount
it to where the wire passes through a panel or bulkhead. Epoxy and/or
tie-wraps would do this. Picture a large hole same as ID of sensor,
surrounded by about three 1/4" holes for tie-wraps going through the holes
and around the sensor.
I also had wondered if accuracy of the sensor would be affected by other
large wires near the OUTside of the sensor. GRT said no.
This is how I did mine:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsOct06.htm#oct28
I also used heatshrink on the sensor wires and the sensed wire, to help hold
them together and protect them. I also have 2 crossed tie-wraps holding the
HE sensor ring to the sensed wire. Mounting options are limited only by
your imagination.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Newton
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start
my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor.
Thanks for any advise.
Eric Newton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
> <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
> from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
> main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
> glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
> +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
> the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load
> and
> see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be
> nothing
> that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
> I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
>
>
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net> |
Thanks, Tim. In my case, I decided to do whatever was needed to
electrically insulate the heatsink from the case, so the heatsink is not
hot.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim &
Diane Shankland
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: hot heatsinks
Brian,
I had the same concern, attached is a picture of my solution. I would be
concerned if you are covering the heat sink with a rubber boot or insulation
because that would greatly reduce its effectiveness. The picture is of a
plastic cover that protects both the heat sink and the connections from
accidental contact with other conductors.
Tim Shankland
Brian Meyette wrote:
I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode package
design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the heatsink is
electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v connections, I have
covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple layers of liquid
insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks, and the +12v passing
through them, being exposed. It would defeat the purpose of the heatsink if
I cover them with liquid insulation. I was thinking perhaps I could build
a perforated Plexiglas or fiberglass box to put over them. What do you
electrical gurus think about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are
+12v?
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Off subject - auto battery setup |
I have an actual Oddessy 680 in my '94 Camaro track day/street play car. It
starts up an 11.4:1 compression 395 cubic inch V8 just fine. When I get the
RV-8 finished , I'll annually put a new one in the plane, move that one to
the car, and I guess save up the one out of the car for ????
William Slaughter
RV-8 QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Off subject - auto battery setup
-->
>-->
>
>There has been an interesting discussion of cheap PC-680 batteries
>(Oddessy knockoffs) on another list. The cost is less than $30. I'm not
>sure I want to run one in my airplane, but my Jeep needs a new battery.
>I'm considering wiring two of these cheap PC-680s in parallel and using
>them to replace the Sears lead acid auto battery in the Jeep. The
>result should be as potent as the Sears Battery for less money, take up
>less space, and avoid the cable corrosion problem that has plagued my
>Jeep ever since I bought it. Is there anything wrong with this idea?
I used to get RG batteries from B&C that had been
cosmetically damaged in shipment that were paid
for by the shipper's insurance. I've run a variety
of RG batteries in my vehicles with great success.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
> >load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
> >increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
> >the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
> >original description.
>
> Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
> your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
>
> This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
> about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
> around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Thanks Bob, but if I have to bend over I may not want that star. :)
Bob W.
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> On 26 Oct 2006, at 22:34, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
>> power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
>> (20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
>> them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
>> offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
>>
>
> I've got a Microair com in my not-yet-flying aircraft. I don't have
> an avionics master. What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
> the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
> start up and shut down?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
I'm flying a 15 year old -4 that I've owned for 3 1/2 years. It's got a
dirt simple electrical system with a Microair comm that I never turn
off. I'm not proud of it, but there...I've admitted it. No problems so far.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>
>Okay, okay, I'll cede the point. But conceptually, the grid is
>controlling the current of electrons across the vacuum, and only
>indirectly is it manipulating the voltage on the plate in the process.
Sure . . . and transistors do that too. The cause is a delta-I
in a base or delta-E on a grid both of which effect a delta-I
in the collector/plate. Whether or not there is a resulting
delta-E in the output depends on source impedance of the supply
such that if it's very low ohms, lots of current modulation can
be go'n on with no discernable change in voltage.
>High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron
>current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate
>voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud
>collapses... I'm not sure.
Hmmm . . . don't recall taking it that far. I could go to
the bench and try it. Yeah, I still have vacuum tubes laying
around . . . and high voltage power supplies. I like to use
vacuum tubes to teach elementary electronics. You can take them
apart and TOUCH and SEE the things that make them work. Not
so with the silicon.
>Next, I suppose someone is going to say that we should model
>transistors based on the voltages rather than the currents in the b-e
>junction and the collector circuit. I'll be really lost then.
Doubt that. Whether you like with H-parameters, S-parameters,
etc., the physics of the transistor doesn't change and external
source impedances are readily accounted for in the performance
predictions. Base delta-I still translates to collector delta-I.
>Once in ages past, I learned some long-since forgotten lore about
>vacuum tube transconductance, in units I think they called mhos, and
>it was something like mu=I/E, which I'm sure must be where I got that
>fuzzy notion that we were concerned with the effect of grid voltage on
>plate current. Well, I'm 50 now, and there's been alot of
>(solid-state-derrived) RF radiated way too close to my head since
>those days, so I guess I'm not a gold star-level ham anymore. I will
>take it in stride :-) Bending over...
Awww shucks . . . you can keep the star. We're all friends here
and I'm not sure Bob wants a 'used' one anyhow.
>-Bill B / rice box appliance operator, but I once fooled with
>12AX7's, 6L6's etc.
The first RF I put on the air was from a 1-tube, 117L7 transmitter
good for about 5w out. The receiver was a 6SN7 regen + one stage
of audio. Used this combination for several months with reasonable
success considering the equipment. Somebody gave me the functional guts
of an SX25 sans case. Had to make dials but at least I had a REAL
receiver. It was downhill from there! The next transmitter was
a 6V6 driving an 807 . . . real flamethrower. That was the spring
of '56. Been up to my eyeballs in electrons ever since.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power Question |
Subject: Ground Power Question
Bob,
I have constructed your ground power system using your low cost ground
power diagram.
I would like to take the system one step further and install a power supply
that I would plug into a 110v outlet and power the aircraft while testing
in my hanger.
My aircraft is a RV10 with your dual electrical system design.
I have purchased these items (see below) and am planning to tap the 12volt
output of the power supply into the piper ground power jack. I would like
to mount the power supply into the aircraft and use an IEC connector and
power cord to power the supply.
Do you see any reason why what I am proposing would not work or is a bad idea.
A permanent installation? Why carry the weight around?
Why not just plug the external power into the ground
power jack when it's needed and leave it behind other
times.
I am just going to be powering the radios and EFIS to learn the systems
while on the ground.
Please advise..Thanks..
12V @ 12.5A 150W POWERSUPPLY1 POWER SUPPLY
IEC FEMALE CHASSIS CONNECTOR
9FT IEC POWER CORD
What you propose would function but I'm skeptical as to
the value of installing such an accessory permanently
on the airplane.
Also, you might want ot consider acquiring a power supply
designed to emulate a vehicle's alternator/battery system.
These are 13.8 volt power supplies and widely available in
many sizes.
Check on e-bay and use '13.8' 'power' and 'supply' as search
terms. Here's a couple of good candidates:
http://tinyurl.com/y4peaq
http://tinyurl.com/y2dumc
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
>
>
>I noticed in John's pictures that he has the solenoids with the rubber
>insulators on the mounting tabs. There was some discussion recently on
>this group about them. Was a conclusion ever reached? I have the same
>insulated mounts on the ones that I purchased from B&C. Should the
>solenoids be grounded?
>
>Eric Newton
It doesn't hurt for the contactors to have insulated
mounting feed. I'm mystified as to why the booties
have been added after all these years but the case
is not part of the electrical circuitry and may be
insulated either on purpose (booties) or accidently
(composite airplane).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
(20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
I've got a Microair com in my not-yet-flying aircraft. I don't have
an avionics master. What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
start up and shut down?
Kevin
I'm flying a 15 year old -4 that I've owned for 3 1/2 years.
It's got a dirt simple electrical system with a Microair
comm that I never turned off. I'm not proud of it, but
there...I've admitted it. No problems so far. . .
Charlie
And there's no particular reason to expect problems.
The fact that MicroAir products have successfully survived
all these years in hundreds if not thousands of airplanes
is largely due to the fact that the dreaded and much touted
startup spikes simply don't exist. The DO-160 rationale
for transient withstand has to do with ability to survive
the abnormal conditions of alternator runaway and/or
alternator load-dump transients.
Very few folks experience such events but if they do,
it's while things are expected to be operating normally
and the radio is ON. No amount of avionics master switches
or observance of checklists will provide protection
from these events. This is why the industry recommends
designing and testing to those qualities.
If I were to exercise the-best-we-know-how-to-do in
the purposeful installation of sub-standard accessories,
I suppose we could fabricate some sore of protected
power conditioning system that would provide voltage
limiting friendly to our relatively fragile purchases.
But as many, many users have noted, the risk are low
and adding such features to the system as Band-Aids
is not good engineering.
Don't loose any sleep over your MicroAir accessories.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
>
> >High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron
> >current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate
> >voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud
> >collapses... I'm not sure.
>
> Hmmm . . . don't recall taking it that far. I could go to
> the bench and try it. Yeah, I still have vacuum tubes laying
> around . . . and high voltage power supplies. I like to use
> vacuum tubes to teach elementary electronics. You can take them
> apart and TOUCH and SEE the things that make them work. Not
> so with the silicon.
>
Isn't that what happens in a diode rectifier tube, and also a class-C
triode amplifier (and maybe for a brief % of the duty cycle in
everything from class AB on down), this biasing to cutoff? That's
what I was referring to, but perhaps incorrectly.
>
> The first RF I put on the air was from a 1-tube, 117L7 transmitter
> good for about 5w out. The receiver was a 6SN7 regen + one stage
> of audio. Used this combination for several months with reasonable
> success considering the equipment. Somebody gave me the functional guts
> of an SX25 sans case. Had to make dials but at least I had a REAL
> receiver. It was downhill from there! The next transmitter was
> a 6V6 driving an 807 . . . real flamethrower. That was the spring
> of '56. Been up to my eyeballs in electrons ever since.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
You, sir, are _old_. Spring of '56, playing with electrons, when I
was still in the womb...
It's been a fun thread. BTW, the new Hyundai alternator isn't in yet;
it appears to be a "special order" item. Perhaps it has a special
voodoo regulator inside ;-) I'll check back with the mechanic today;
he promised me to save the core.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SKYMAP IIIC question |
Hi Bob and all,
Anyone happen to have info concerning the wiring of the GPS BENDIX
SKYMAP IIIC ?
A homebuilding buddy is looking for info as to how to connect his sub-d
9 connector.
Any input appreciated,
Thanks
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SKYMAP IIIC question |
| From: | "Ken Harrill" <kharrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
I have attached a PDF file of the wiring diagram I used in my RV-6.
Ken Harrill
Columbia, SC
RV-6, 600 hrs
--------
Ken Harrill
RV-6
Columiba, SC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71377#71377
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skympap_connector_to_ac_wiring_188.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | SKYMAP IIIC question |
-----Original Message-----
From: ivorphillips [mailto:ivor(at)ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk]
Sent: 31 October 2006 20:26
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SKYMAP IIIC question
Hi Gilles
This is from my manual of last year, so should be current,
Regards
Ivor
Anyone happen to have info concerning the wiring of the GPS BENDIX
SKYMAP IIIC ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
Ok thanks Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I noticed in John's pictures that he has the solenoids with the rubber
>>insulators on the mounting tabs. There was some discussion recently on
>>this group about them. Was a conclusion ever reached? I have the same
>>insulated mounts on the ones that I purchased from B&C. Should the
>>solenoids be grounded?
>>
>>Eric Newton
>
> It doesn't hurt for the contactors to have insulated
> mounting feed. I'm mystified as to why the booties
> have been added after all these years but the case
> is not part of the electrical circuitry and may be
> insulated either on purpose (booties) or accidently
> (composite airplane).
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What I want and thank you |
"It's good that everyone here flies with exactly what they WANT in their
airplane."
Well, some of us are still flying certified old spam cans, so we are not
unlimited.
But, this site/Bob's book (mostly), some other forums, and with a lot of
logical thinking my ap has begun to allow me (under his direct supervision, of
course) to make some "minor mods" to my electric system (no changes to the
basic system, of course) that my prior ap's had considered to be well beyond the
pale of minor mods (Really, a field approval for a stuck starter light???)..
Thanks to all especially Bob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What I want and thank you |
>
>"It's good that everyone here flies with exactly what they WANT in their
>airplane."
>
>Well, some of us are still flying certified old spam cans, so we are not
>unlimited.
>
>But, this site/Bob's book (mostly), some other forums, and with a lot of
>logical thinking my ap has begun to allow me (under his direct
>supervision, of course) to make some "minor mods" to my electric system
>(no changes to the basic system, of course) that my prior ap's had
>considered to be well beyond the pale of minor mods (Really, a field
>approval for a stuck starter light???)..
>
>Thanks to all especially Bob.
You're most welcome. I'm pleased that what
goes on here offers you solid foundations for
striking out on your own as it were . . . especially
in the face of bureaucratic impediments to progress
and a healthy skepticism for tradition.
I'm working on a White Paper that discusses the
value of an IR&D facility (you'd be surprise how few
big-name operations don't have one . . . or don't
understand how you use one). After it's been
reviewed, I'll publish it on my website.
. . . and I owe all of you a debt of gratitude too.
One of the points in my White Paper speaks to the need
to practice details of an art . . . EVERY DAY. The best
musicians, cooks, golfers, etc. all put their hands on
the hardware of their craft every day.
You folks have given me a forum to exercise my
own skills at writing, explaining, and illustrating
simple-ideas and the inventions that grow out of them.
I've become more effective at my profession because
of opportunities I found here on the List that my
job doesn't offer.
Some of you may feel that this is a one-way street
but allow me to assure you, it's a symbiotic relationship
where everyone enthusiastic about the disipline can
grow.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SKYMAP IIIC question |
Ivor, Kent,
Thank you for your help and your quick answer.
I'm passing on the info.
Thanks again,
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
> This is from my manual of last year, so should be current,
> Regards
> Ivor
>
>
> Anyone happen to have info concerning the wiring of the GPS BENDIX
> SKYMAP IIIC ?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | no battery contactor? |
Greetings...
I'm just wondering what the justification for eliminating a
battery contactor as per Z17 or Z-20?
Also, if the S700-2-10 split master type switch can be
replaced by a 2-3, per appendix Z, how should it be wired,
exactly?
Thanks...
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 350 hrs.
building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 85% completed
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| c/o Brandywine Aviation | voice: 519.289.1527 |
| 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON | http://www.cleco.ca |
| N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 | 2000+ x 60', elev: 740' |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Take charge of your attitude. Don't let someone else choose
it for you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: no battery contactor? |
>
>Greetings...
>
>I'm just wondering what the justification for eliminating a battery
>contactor as per Z17 or Z-20?
The engine drive power sources for a number of small
engines have limited output. The classic battery contactor
implementation consumes 0.7 to 1.0 amps for the
duration of flight. In most cases, there's energy-to-
burn while the main alternator is functioning but
for Rotax and Jabiru engines, this resource is small
(8-18 amps) and a builder may elect to avoid power
losses represented by the installation of a battery
contactor.
Indeed ANY airplane can use a manual switch in lieu
of a contactor . . . but recall that one of the design
goals for a contactor is that when the master switch
is OFF, the amount of hot wiring between battery and
battery switch is minimized.
>Also, if the S700-2-10 split master type switch can be replaced by a 2-3,
>per appendix Z, how should it be wired, exactly?
A 2-3 is not progressive transfer . . . so the battery
and alternator come on and off together. This presents
a problem for conducting battery-only ground ops
where an alternator might come alive even with the engine
not running and load the battery unnecessarily during
ground testing.
If you use a 2-3, the pulling the alternator field
breaker during ground ops takes the place of the
progressive transfer feature of the 2-10 where
the system can be alive on battery only.
Looking at the back of the switch, the 2-3 is
wired just like a 2-10.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
>In a message dated 10/27/2006 4:35:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
>khorton01(at)rogers.com writes:
>What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
>the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
>start up and shut down?
>
> >>>>>>>>>
>"Radios ON/OFF" are checklist items for me- haven't seen any negative
>effects from radio yet when "OFF" item missed, but T2000 xpndr does seem
>to behave oddly if left on at shutdown. "No Comm" errors, turning itself
>on before Master shut off, difficult to turn on (occasionally requires
>several attemps holding power button in) but otherwise seems to work
>fairly well.
>
>My 760 transmits very well, but reception from maybe 20% of other aircraft
>(ATC and unicoms always come in well) typically with older radios, is
>garbled in varying degrees and on rare occasions almost
>non-existent. Haven't been able to resolve yet- curious if others
>experience this.
Hmmm. . . it would be really interesting to bench check
some of these "problem" radios. I think I'll put a nice
signal generator in my letter to Santa Claus.
> Close formation reception is often garbled- added resistor to antenna
> line as discussed here some time ago (thanks Bob!) helped quite a bit,
> but will upsize resistor at next opportunity & see if improves...
Let us know what size resistor you ultimately find adequate.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
Inquiry:
I have on order from an avionics installer a GNS430, SL30 and
GTX327- I wish to avoid a separate avionics bus and plan to power these
from my
endurance bus fuseblock, which is hot whenever the master contactor is on per
Bob Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection system architecture. Is this
acceptable or must I make sure these units are not powered up during engine
start?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interesting. The installation manuals for the GNS-430 and the
GTX-327 claim DO-160 Category A qualification for voltage spikes (I
don't have an SL-30 Installation manual to look at). Are they saying
that they don't trust their test results, or that they didn't really
do the test? Or that they think the real world might be worse than
the DO-160 requirements?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
Funny you should ask. I've asked it dozens of
times over the years of various promulgators of
avionics master switches . . . I've yet to received
a reasoned reply.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GTX327 power switching |
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
When ordering my avionics, I noted which units had integrated power
switches and which did not, so I could include power switches for those
that didnt on my panel. For example, the GRT EFIS does not have a power
switch, so I installed one on the panel. The GTX 327 transponder does have
a power switch, so I did not include a switch for that. However, after
cutting my panel, installing the avionics and proceeding to flip various
switches to see that everything lights up, I have discovered that the GTX
327 comes on when I turn on the master, regardless of whether I turned the
unit off the last time I used it. So, if I want the unit off before engine
start, I will have to reach up and turn it off, when in my mind at least,
it should already be off because thats how I left it the last time I used
it. A minor inconvenience, but irritating to me, and I dont really want to
add another panel switch.
Does anyone know whether there is something in the GTX327 instrument set up
that will allow me to change the default setting to power off instead of
power on?
thank you
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | BNC angle adapter doesn't fit |
Thought I'd mention that the BNC angle adapter that I had in stock would
not fit my TED transponder antenna. It's likely a low cost import
adapter. In fact though none of the angle adapters in two local stores
would push on far enough even though all the straight connectors that I
tried fit fine. A minor mystery as I have not been able to figure out
why they won't push on far enough despite being willing to do some surgery.
Wish I'd known sooner as I just received an order from Steinair today
and would have ordered one of theirs if I'd known mine wouldn't fit ;(
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Fund Raiser - November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through these sole Contributions
of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matornics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matornics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days
reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. Each message will generally
highlight a particular feature or benefit of the Matronics Lists or detail
a new feature or service that was added this year. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the
bills associated with running these lists.
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises aka Kitlog Pro (http://www.kitlog.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Paul, Andy, and Jon for their generous
support of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
https://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really
do feel like family.
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GTX327 power switching |
On 1 Nov 2006, at 12:32, Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com wrote:
>
> Does anyone know whether there is something in the GTX327
> instrument set up
> that will allow me to change the default setting to power off
> instead of
> power on?
My GTX-327 does not automatically turn on. I must manually select it
ON. It is several years old, so perhaps they have changed the
firmware. It is possible that they added a configuration item for
this new feature, but there is no mention of it in my old
installation manual. Is there any mention of this feature in the
Configuration Pages section of your installation manual?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
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| From: | Dave <dave(at)abrahamson.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GTX327 power switching |
You don't mention whether you consulted the online installation
manual, but if not it's at
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf.
I find no mention of power-up configuration options, and the pin
diagram for connector 3271 lists and "avionics master on", implying
there is none.
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| Subject: | Re: GTX327 power switching |
| From: | "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net> |
Pin 1 is "avionics power on"
Pin 15 is "power input (11-33V)"
I believe if you wish it to remain off you need to disconnect pin one and run power
to pin 15
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71744#71744
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| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC angle adapter doesn't fit |
>
>Thought I'd mention that the BNC angle adapter that I had in stock would
>not fit my TED transponder antenna. It's likely a low cost import adapter.
>In fact though none of the angle adapters in two local stores would push
>on far enough even though all the straight connectors that I tried fit
>fine. A minor mystery as I have not been able to figure out why they won't
>push on far enough despite being willing to do some surgery.
>
>Wish I'd known sooner as I just received an order from Steinair today and
>would have ordered one of theirs if I'd known mine wouldn't fit ;(
Radio Shack stocks an acceptable rt-angle adapter for
BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
book at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BNC_Rt_Angle/BNC_Rt_Angle.html
Bob . . .
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| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery cable routing |
>Comments/Questions: I have a Glastar which is both a composite fuselage
>design with a steel cage. The Batteries are located in the rear and #2
>cables run forward to firewall. You mention that we need to run cables
>together. I'd like to run them together but split them so the (-) cable
>goes to left side of firewall and the (+) cable goes to the B&C ground
>block on the right. Im going with all electic plane per you design. Is
>this a problem or should I run them to the same side of the
>firewall? Thank You, Scott
Run them together as far as practical. Then splitting at
the firewall is fine.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
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| From: | Richard Hughes <richardhughes260(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is this solder okay?Annular slot transponder antennae? |
Does anyone have any experience with an annular slot
antennae?
Please see the links:
-Rich
http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/avionics/tranant.html
http://richardhughes260.googlepages.com/annularslottranant.GIF
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
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| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is this solder okay?Annular slot transponder |
antennae?
>
>
>Does anyone have any experience with an annular slot
>antennae?
>
>Please see the links:
>
>-Rich
>
>http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/avionics/tranant.html
>
>http://richardhughes260.googlepages.com/annularslottranant.GIF
We used a number of antennas like this on our supersonic
targets (things that stick out in the breeze at Mach 4
tend to burn off). I can't speak to comparative performance
'cause I wasn't working those issues . . . and in any case,
we had no choice. At the same time, I didn't hear of any
antenna performance issues.
I believe they have a radiation pattern similar to this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Circular_Aperture_Ant_Radiation_Pattern.pdf
. . . which makes them less than ideal for talking/listening
to stations on the horizon. We often had an array of 3 or 4 antennas
around the body of the aircraft fed by couplers so as to improve
on the "omni directional" radiation pattern.
I think I'd look long and hard for some lab test data on
suitability of this antenna to the task before crafting
one for the airplane. Know also that built-to-print often
does not yield the idealized antenna . . . the finished
device is best tested and optimized with the proper test
equipment. Then too . . . you can always try it and see
how it performs for your flight modes. Anecdotal data is
better than no data.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: | re: GTX327 power switching |
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
Milt wrote:
Pin 1 is "avionics power on"
Pin 15 is "power input (11-33V)"
I believe if you wish it to remain off you need to disconnect pin one and
run power
to pin 15
Milt, Im sure you are correct, as I received the identical answer from
someone on the Vansairforce site. Thanks so much.
Erich Weaver
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| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Making 28v from 2 14v sources (to enable an Air conditioning |
install)
I have built a 14v dual battery, dual alternator system. (Z14). I live
in AZ and am interested in installing an air conditioning system. In
researching a/c systems, I'm uncomfortable with the added mechanical
complexity of running hoses and the engine driven compressor into the
engine compartment. I concede that this may be a more efficient means of
generating the power for the a/c, but it adds complexity/weight and a
load in an area that I would prefer not to. I have identified a couple
of sources that provide 28v AC systems. I have too much invested into my
build re 14 v components to warrant redoing the electrical system (to
28v). So in noodling it seems to me that _conceptually_ one should be
able to take a feed from each of the 14v systems and couple them
together to produce the 28v required for the ac unit. So, for those of
you further along the electro learning curve than I, is this
_practically_ possible? If so what components would be required to make
the connection to produce 28V?
Thanks in advance for any consideration and input.
PS Thanks for all of the input on the IPOD connect
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
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| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making 28v from 2 14v sources (to enable an Air |
conditioning install)
>
>I have built a 14v dual battery, dual alternator system. (Z14). I live in
>AZ and am interested in installing an air conditioning system. In
>researching a/c systems, I'm uncomfortable with the added mechanical
>complexity of running hoses and the engine driven compressor into the
>engine compartment. I concede that this may be a more efficient means of
>generating the power for the a/c, but it adds complexity/weight and a load
>in an area that I would prefer not to. I have identified a couple of
>sources that provide 28v AC systems. I have too much invested into my
>build re 14 v components to warrant redoing the electrical system (to
>28v). So in noodling it seems to me that _conceptually_ one should be able
>to take a feed from each of the 14v systems and couple them together to
>produce the 28v required for the ac unit. So, for those of you further
>along the electro learning curve than I, is this _practically_ possible?
>If so what components would be required to make the connection to produce 28V?
>
>Thanks in advance for any consideration and input.
>
>PS Thanks for all of the input on the IPOD connect
Not easy. You'd need to craft an electrically isolated
14 volt system to "stack" on top of the grounded system.
This would require a special alternator for the #2 machine.
Further, the "bottom" alternator would need to be scaled
to carry normal ship's loads + the a/c.
The "top" system would not be useable for backing up
the bottom system without some complex switching.
The pitfalls of all this are considerable not to mention
the time and $ to implement it.
I'd jump on a belt driven compressor in a heartbeat.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
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| From: | D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GTX327 power switching |
Erich,
I have the same transponder and it does the same thing yours does. I've looked into it a little bit, but am deployed so I can't look at the wiring on my unit. There appears to be a pin on the connector that, if powered, is set up to have the unit power on automatically in the same state as last used when the avionics master is turned on (or power applied to the endurance bus in your case). My guess is that this pin is jumpered to the bus power in my harness, I intend to check when I return. Take a look at figure B4 in the installation manual. (Here's a link to Andy Plunket's Glasair website with an install manual: http://glasairproject.com/docs/Garmin327im.pdf)
Dan Fritz
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | GTX327 power switching |
Leave pin 1 open and connect pin 15 to aircraft power (avionics bus)
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GTX327 power switching
You don't mention whether you consulted the online installation
manual, but if not it's at
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf.
I find no mention of power-up configuration options, and the pin
diagram for connector 3271 lists and "avionics master on", implying
there is none.
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| From: | "Grant Neilson" <grantneilson(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Current limiter and/or Circuit breaker for alternator |
If I install a current limiter, say an ANL80, should I still also install a
conventional 60 or 70 amp circuit breaker in the alternator output? Or is
that an unnecessary redundancy? If it's not necessary, is there any down
side to having both, other than the additional minimal weight and cost?
Thanks for any input.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Current limiter and/or Circuit breaker for alternator |
>If I install a current limiter, say an ANL80, should I still also install
>a conventional 60 or 70 amp circuit breaker in the alternator output? Or
>is that an unnecessary redundancy? If it's not necessary, is there any
>down side to having both, other than the additional minimal weight and cost?
>Thanks for any input.
The whole idea behind the ANL is to get the alternator
b-lead out of the cockpit . . . and if it's out of the
cockpit, then ANL or equivalent devices for circuit
protection are called for. Breakers under the cowl
don't make much sense.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Current limiter and/or Circuit breaker for alternator |
Further explanation if required would be that yes an ANL is a slow
acting fuse and it is equivalent to a breaker. Certainly there is
nothing immediately wrong with having multiple devices in a circuit.
However both these devices add very small amounts of resistance to the
circuit as does the connections to them. Additional resistance could
lead to less voltage stability with some regulators, and more
maintanance as the system ages. In some cases you may also have a
battery contactor and an overvoltage contactor in that B-lead circuit.
The general idea is to keep the B-lead short and not run extra length up
to the instrument panel and then back to a battery. However a B-lead
breaker does not have to be on the panel and does not have to be
resettable in flight. Certainly an ANL would not be replaced in flight,
nor would you want to. Another reason to keep B-leads short is that they
tend to radiate some noise.
Since the ANL is protecting the B-lead from excess battery supplied
current, it makes sense to keep it close to the battery. As Bob has
expained on several occasions, contrary to first look, the purpose of
the ANL is definately not to protect anything from excess alternator
current.
.
Ken
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>> If I install a current limiter, say an ANL80, should I still also
>> install a conventional 60 or 70 amp circuit breaker in the alternator
>> output? Or is that an unnecessary redundancy? If it's not necessary,
>> is there any down side to having both, other than the additional
>> minimal weight and cost?
>> Thanks for any input.
>
>
> The whole idea behind the ANL is to get the alternator
> b-lead out of the cockpit . . . and if it's out of the
> cockpit, then ANL or equivalent devices for circuit
> protection are called for. Breakers under the cowl
> don't make much sense.
>
> Bob . . .
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| From: | "Grant Neilson" <grantneilson(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Current limiter and/or Circuit breaker for alternator |
So the external shunt for my ammeter is also perfectly happy being under the
cowl, with the leads to the instrument penetrating the firewall?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Off line for a few days . . . |
Dr. Dee and I are packing the car to head off to Bloomington,
IL for a weekend seminar. Be back on Monday.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum? |
Hello Listers,
One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition
of a new and full function Forum Web Site at:
http://forums.matronics.com
The best part of these new Forums is that they are tied directly to the Classic
email distribution Lists! That also means that posts go in both directions.
If you post a message on the Forum web site, it will be cross posted to the respective
Email List. And, if you post a message to a particular Email List,
it will be cross posted to the same respective forum on the Forum site!
So, no matter what your content viewing pleasure is - either direct email distribution
or web-based GUI interface, you can have it at the Matronics Email Lists!
Won't you make a Contribution to support these Lists? It is your SOLE Contributions
that make their continued operation and upgrade possible!
The Contribution site is Fast, Easy, and Secure. Please surf over and make your
Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
> BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
> book
Just to enrich my English language knowledge, what exactly do you mean by
"Comic Book" ?
Carlos Trigo
Portugal
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| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Carlos,
I think Bob is off for the weekend, so I will give it a shot. "Comic book",
in the sense that Bob is using it, is an annotated series of pictures,
usually to show how to do something.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: comic book
> BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
> book
Just to enrich my English language knowledge, what exactly do you mean by
"Comic Book" ?
Carlos Trigo
Portugal
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| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Carlos,
This is a term Bob uses for his How-To articles, which are basically
pictures with text added as required for explanation. He'll have to
explain why he chose that particular term, but it probably dates back to
pre-digital picture days when the 'pictures' were hand sketches and the
text was hand written - and that is similar to the format of comic books
we (who have more than a few grey hairs) grew up with as kids.
Dennis Glaeser
> BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
> book
Just to enrich my English language knowledge, what exactly do you mean
by
"Comic Book" ?
Carlos Trigo
Portugal
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| From: | Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> |
Carlos, think of the "Asterisk and Obelisk" comic book series in France.
Dave Morris
At 12:40 PM 11/3/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>> BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
>> book
>
>Just to enrich my English language knowledge, what exactly do you
>mean by "Comic Book" ?
>
>Carlos Trigo
>Portugal
>
>
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| Subject: | Garmin 396 Ground Loop |
hello,
I just added a Garmin 396 to my RV-9A. I have the audio output connected to
my stereo intercom aux inputs along with a traffic monitor and engine
monitor (with isolation resisitors). When I have the 396 powered through
the airplane, I get audio noise. If I run it on battery, the noise goes
away. I'm thinking ground loop. The 396 power ground goes to the main
ground block on the firewall. The audio grounds go to an avionics ground
bus at the back of the intercom that is ultimately wired to the main ground
block.
Any thoughts? I won't mess with this too long before I will try an inline
ground loop isolator like this one:
http://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=970
Thanks,
Pete
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| From: | "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com> |
Fellow Nuckollheads,
I've been doing a lot of reading on-line concerning eliminating RFI in the
HF band in my mobile 10/11 meter installation. The current wisdom seems to
be to "ground everything" which I am in the process of doing. BUT... All the
ham gurus recommend using tinned braided wire for RF grounding in preference
to the usual copper w/ insulation "hook-up" wire. I can't figure out why
this would matter. And then, of course, the real meat of the matter... If I
do this to my SkyRanger, will it decrease RFI through my VHF Comm???
Rodney in TN
_________________________________________________________________
Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
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| From: | Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> |
I hope that's just an 11m installation ;) But where is the RFI occurring?
I'm not sure what they are talking about re: tinned braided vs
copper, but it sounds like nonsense to me. Unless you're dealing
with high power levels and very tiny hookup wire, the RF is going to
get grounded either way. RF travels down the circumference of wire,
so larger diameters are better - to a point. You won't notice the difference.
Your VHF comm radio should already have good shielding, so going
crazy with grounds is not necessary. A single ground should
suffice. What RFI are you trying to eliminate?
Dave Morris
N5UP
Amateur Extra Class
At 06:24 AM 11/4/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>Fellow Nuckollheads,
>
>I've been doing a lot of reading on-line concerning eliminating RFI
>in the HF band in my mobile 10/11 meter installation. The current
>wisdom seems to be to "ground everything" which I am in the process
>of doing. BUT... All the ham gurus recommend using tinned braided
>wire for RF grounding in preference to the usual copper w/
>insulation "hook-up" wire. I can't figure out why this would matter.
>And then, of course, the real meat of the matter... If I do this to
>my SkyRanger, will it decrease RFI through my VHF Comm???
>
>Rodney in TN
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
>https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
>
>
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| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Test, ignore.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Transorb voltage for 14V system |
What is the optimum voltage of transorb for a 14V system. 15V seems a bit
marginal. 18 seems OK?
Thanks in anticipation
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
Peter
18 volt seems to be the ones to use... I used a few of them in a couple
of places.
Ken
Peter Mather wrote:
>
>
> What is the optimum voltage of transorb for a 14V system. 15V seems a
> bit marginal. 18 seems OK?
>
> Thanks in anticipation
>
> Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Sheild pigtails. |
How does one use the little pigtails that are designed to bring the shield
of a coax cable out to a wire? The ones I have are from Steinair and have a
special clear heatshrink with a metal ring in the center and a small wire
under the heatshrink and ring that can be attached to a terminal or pin. I
slid the whole works over a stripped coax shield and put a heatgun on it.
The sleeve shrank around the coax just fine but the ring was a bit larger
than the shield and didn't melt like I expected (someone told me it was
solder ring that would melt around the shield and the pigtail wire). Is this
true? Or am I supposed to crimp the metal ring before shrinking the
shrinkwrap. Or what......?????????????? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Finishing up wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
I am installing an electronic circuit (Flap Positionong System) which has a
3 colour LED on it. I am puting this box inside the flap enclosure of my RV,
thus hiden in a place out of sight.
Since I need, for some operations, to see the LED, I am thinking in puting
another 3 colour LED somewhere in the panel. How should I connect the pannel
LED to the circuit LED? Is it just a 3 wire connection? And both LED's would
show the same?
TIA
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Wow, Cool! New List Feature... [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
By popular suggestion, I've written a substantial new code module for the Matronics
Email Lists system. Here's how it works...
During each November, I send out quite a few PBS-like "Please make a Contribution
to support your List" emails. Wouldn't it be cool if, once a member made a
Contribution, they didn't have to receive my support pleas anymore for the rest
of that year?
Well, that's exactly what I've written! Following this posting, anyone that makes
a List Contribution in 2006 will no longer receive my Contribution Pleas for
the rest of the year!
The best part is this not only applies to the Realtime distribution, but also the
Digest distribution! For those that have made a Contribution, the Daily Digest
email-version will be invisibly stripped of my requests as well! (Note that
my requests will still be present in the online versions of the Digests, List
Browse, and on the Forum site.)
For those submitting their Contribution by personal Check, please be sure to include
your email address along with your Check as this is what is used to determine
eligibility.
So, in a nutshell, here's how it works:
Make a Contribution = No more "Please Make a Contribution" messages!
How sweet is that? If that's not a great reason to jump on the Matronics Email
List Contribution site and make your donation today, I don't know what is!
Don't forget that there are some totally awesome free gifts to be had along with
your List Contribution this year!! Don't wait a minute longer to support your
Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
My homebuilt Pioneer 300 equipped with Rotax 912 ULS features a wooden structure
for the fuselage, completely covered with a carbon-fibre shell. Wings and tailplane
is made of a wooden structure with dacron covering.
The fuselage features carbon fibre belly panels for inspection purposes.
Questions: which type of antenna's should I use and how do I deal witth the grounding
for these? (2x Comm, 1x Nav, 1x Xpond, 1x GPS)
How do I deal with the electric grounds - do I bring all the individual grounds
to a ground block on the inside of the firewall?
Is it advisable to make a separate ground block for the avionics and connect this
to the ground block on the inside of the firewall?
For starting, which is better - 2 single switches for the ignition and one starter
button, or the interlinked 2 switches whereby the lft ignition switch is used
for starting as well through off-on-(on) as shown on some Z-diagrams.
Is a back-up battery recommended and why?
Thanks for any input I may receive from this board.
Cees Smit, Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72595#72595
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a switch |
Alan,
The functionality you're asking for is provided by a
Microswitch 2TL1-10N or 2TL-10L (either locking option
will work, you just need to re-wire). These translate to
MS27408-4N and MS27408-4L.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/tl_series.pdf
Having said that, I agree with Bob's suggestion that you
investigate the real risks for inadvertent positioning
of the boost pump switch. I've flown a number of aircraft
with OFF-LO-HI boost switches . . . none of them offered
any sort of "lockout" provisions.
These switches will not be easy to find . . . they're not
a common catalog item.
Bob . . .
>
>
>Good Morning Alan,
>
>Once again, I am probably venturing where my knowledge
>is insufficient, but here goes any way!
>
>What engine are you running?
>
>We often have high and low boost pump positions on our
>fuel injected Continental engines. It is true that
>high boost will kill an engine being operated at low
>power, but if the throttle is wide open and the RPM
>good and high, high boost may not even be noticed!
>
>The fuel pressures are not additive. The boost pump
>only puts out a bit more pressure than the engine pump
>does at high power. In some cases, it is even a bit
>less, though still adequate to operate the engine at
>full power in the case of an engine driven pump
>failure. If you are operating at normal cruise powers
>and the high boost is selected, the engine may get a
>bit rough, but the power loss will be minimal and the
>roughness will get your attention in plenty of time to
>take corrective action. Personally, on the Continental
>fuel injection system, I see no problem with
>nonlocking switches for the boost pump.
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Stearman N3977A
>Downers Grove, IL
>LL22
>
>--- "Alan K. Adamson" wrote:
>
> > Adamson"
> >
> > I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to
> > control 2 positions on a
> > fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the
> > configuration to support
> > the down position to be off, the middle to be low
> > boost on, and the top
> > position to be high boost on, with a lockout between
> > low and high boost.
> >
> > I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't
> > been able to find what I
> > need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've
> > described. I had
> > originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I
> > only needed high boost
> > for prime. However, in talking with other pilots,
> > it now has come to my
> > attention that High boost needs to be switchable in
> > the event of engine
> > driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be
> > momentary. The reason I can't
> > use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost
> > is normally switched on
> > at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to
> > high boost, you'd drown
> > the engine.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of
> > switches that exist, even
> > a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg
> > work would be helpful.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> >
> > Web Forums!
> >
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sheild pigtails. |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
See: http://www.emcesd.com/semdemos.htm
Here is a demonstration of a 5V square wave where the pigtail develops 1.5V across
it. At pretty low frequencies too. At high frequencies...your signal has vanished
into the ether.
The problem is that the reduction of the shield to a pigtail wrecks all the nice
electrical characteristics that you paid for by using coaxial cable, by introducing
an inductance.
Proper termination of coaxial shields involves much more than twisting the shield
into a "pigtail"--it involves coupling the shield to the ground or other other
conductor with an inductance that is equal to- or lower than- the coax shield.
So "pigtails" are for pigs. Let's keep it that way and learn how to do it right.
"Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem...."
-Thomas Szasz
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72621#72621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>My homebuilt Pioneer 300 equipped with Rotax 912 ULS features a wooden
>structure for the fuselage, completely covered with a carbon-fibre shell.
>Wings and tailplane is made of a wooden structure with dacron covering.
>The fuselage features carbon fibre belly panels for inspection purposes.
>Questions: which type of antenna's should I use and how do I deal witth
>the grounding for these? (2x Comm, 1x Nav, 1x Xpond, 1x GPS)
>How do I deal with the electric grounds - do I bring all the individual
>grounds to a ground block on the inside of the firewall?
>Is it advisable to make a separate ground block for the avionics and
>connect this to the ground block on the inside of the firewall?
>For starting, which is better - 2 single switches for the ignition and one
>starter button, or the interlinked 2 switches whereby the lft ignition
>switch is used for starting as well through off-on-(on) as shown on some
>Z-diagrams.
>Is a back-up battery recommended and why?
>
>Thanks for any input I may receive from this board.
May I suggest you acquire a copy of the
AeroElectric Connection . . . a publication with
whole chapters that discuss topics you've cited.
If you have the Z-diagrams, then you already have
a sample of the document's usefulness. The Builder's
Bookstore offers an e-book version of the 'Connection
at http://buildersbooks.com/
You can print the e-book off as needed and on paper/
binder formats of choice. If you have questions
or having trouble selecting from multiple philosophies
then there's a bunch of folks here on the List who
can help you. It's a good idea to ground your
questions in some level of pre-understanding before
we here on the List begin to expound on our various
preferences levels of understanding.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheild pigtails. |
>
>
>How does one use the little pigtails that are designed to bring the shield
>of a coax cable out to a wire? The ones I have are from Steinair and have a
>special clear heatshrink with a metal ring in the center and a small wire
>under the heatshrink and ring that can be attached to a terminal or pin. I
>slid the whole works over a stripped coax shield and put a heatgun on it.
>The sleeve shrank around the coax just fine but the ring was a bit larger
>than the shield and didn't melt like I expected (someone told me it was
>solder ring that would melt around the shield and the pigtail wire). Is this
>true? Or am I supposed to crimp the metal ring before shrinking the
>shrinkwrap. Or what......?????????????? Thanks.
These are "Soldersleves" by Tyco/Raychem. They come in a variety
of formats. Their use is illustrated in the last frame of an
article at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
The devices are described in part in documents at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Misc/Raychem-Tyco
The problem you're having suggests that your heatgun output
is too cold and/or insufficiently concentrated on the length
of the sleeve.
My personal favorite gun right now is by Milwaukee and is similar
to the one shown at:
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Power_Tools/Heat_Guns/8975-6.htm
There are over 200 listings for heat guns on ebay right now.
Avoid the Milwaukee 1400 . . . looks cool, but only 300 watts.
Dual heat guns are handy, variable heat guns are better.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
>
>What is the optimum voltage of transorb for a 14V system. 15V seems a bit
>marginal. 18 seems OK?
>
>Thanks in anticipation
>
>Peter
I am curious as to why you think you need one.
The topic of spikes and other evils on the bus
has been discussed here on the list since day-one,
but to date, nobody has offered data from a repeatable
experiment that illuminates sources, intensities and
energy content of any perturbations of interest on
an airplane or any other vehicular DC power system.
Thus far, proponents of prophylactic measures such as
Transorbs, MOVs, etc. have only cited the sales
literature for such products that strongly suggest
that you buy a lot of their product and sprinkle
liberally about your system . . . at least having done
so might make you feel good. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/AN9312.pdf
Keep in mind too that a Transorb rated at 18v goes into
a hard limit at over 25 volts when it's "working hard"
at it's intended task. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/15ke.pdf
Just be aware that to date, nobody has come forward
with an engineering justification for sprinkling Transorbs
around any part of the airplane's electrical system and
then explained the simple-ideas that support their
proposition. Those who have championed the Transorb
most vigorously have overlooked and/or ignored the wide
range of clamping voltage when the device is stressed
over the full range of its ratings. An 18v Transorb
does NOT guarantee that the device being "protected"
will not suffer a spiking event that exceeds 18v by
a considerable margin.
Don't mis-interpret my suggestions here. Transorbs
are marvelous devices and I've designed dozens of
circuits that utilize these nifty gizmos to stand off
the effects of lightning strokes! But the notion that
they're useful for much of what folks tend to worry about
in little airplanes is not supported in physics or practice.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Sorry Bob, didn't mean to offend any. It is just that most of my questions are
somewhat covered, I was looking for more precise answers and why, especially the
antennae questions. E.g. is it better to use a bent whip on the belly and try
to get a ground plane on the carbon fiber or is it better to use a antennae
for composite and built it in the rudder. Why is it better and how do I get the
ground for this composite antennae?
I'll try to be more precise with my questioning in the future.
Regards, Cees Smit.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72643#72643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Fellow Nuckollheads,
>
>I've been doing a lot of reading on-line concerning eliminating RFI in the
>HF band in my mobile 10/11 meter installation. The current wisdom seems to
>be to "ground everything" which I am in the process of doing. BUT... All
>the ham gurus recommend using tinned braided wire for RF grounding in
>preference to the usual copper w/ insulation "hook-up" wire. I can't
>figure out why this would matter. And then, of course, the real meat of
>the matter... If I do this to my SkyRanger, will it decrease RFI through
>my VHF Comm???
>
>Rodney in TN
Most of my experiences dealing with RFI problems
in aircraft have root causes founded in poorly
designed hardware or inattention to installation
requirements. These often create situations where
the owner/operator is struggling to 'band-aid' the
system to accommodate the deficiencies over which
the fellow has no control.
Adding bond straps, shields, moving bundles, etc
are all part and parcel of the RFI alchemists ingredients
that are OCCASIONALLY components of a recipe for success.
A well considered approach to solving a RFI problem
requires that you identify the antagonist and deduce
the exact propagation mode from antagonist to victim.
More often than not, the real success comes from fixing
some deficiency in the antagonist or its installation
as opposed to "helping" victims live in the unhealthy
environment.
We need more details about your system: Power levels,
antenna and feed line installation, etc. What systems
are victimized by the transmitter?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>> BNC connectors. I featured this adapter in the comic
>> book
>
>Just to enrich my English language knowledge, what exactly do you mean by
>"Comic Book" ?
Comic books is a generic term that describes highly
illustrated story books with captions on each illustration.
Where I work, a "comic book" is a series of illustrations
with captions, usually step by step instructions . . . and
little (if any) formatted text.
For example:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
is a "comic book" in the purest sense. This piece
could stand alone with its captioned illustrations
but I elected to add supporting text . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
and of course, this piece at . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html
is simply an article with the occasional supporting
illustration.
The "comic book" is a powerful teaching tool for guiding
the reader through a series of orchestrated
steps leading to some goal in fabrication or understanding.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
Bob
I'm building a RV9A and using a variant of Z-11 as the electrical system.
Basically the endurance bus is provided by a composite design mini-power
panel http://www.compositedesigninc.com/Mini_Power.htm except that this has
all the electrics connected to it except the alternator field, Critically,
the non-switchable load is only a measured 0.8amp for a Dynon D10A and
engine instruments.
I'm using a IR 125NQ015 diode mounted directly onto the power panel positive
bus (this is a great device with 1/4" screw terminal for the incoming feed
and its case as the output. This has a VF of only 0.33V so at my full load
is only dissipating about 8 Watts.
I'm intending to use a 5000W axial transorb across the terminals of the
power panel to provide both a level of spike protection but also overvoltage
protection. I've conducted experiments with a 9V version of the transorb and
demonstrated that I can blow either my endurance bus fuse or my alternator
current limiter without damage to the transorb. In other words an
overvoltage on the alternator should blow its own fuse and if any transients
exist they would also be mopped up. The transorb voltage is obviously
critical in this. I don't want it conducting in any normal situation, but do
want it to let go as soon as any significant overvoltage condition exists.
Without wishing to start any further spike protection or alternator
overvoltage wars, I'm very interested in your views on this approach.
Best regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transorb voltage for 14V system
>
>
>
>>
>>What is the optimum voltage of transorb for a 14V system. 15V seems a bit
>>marginal. 18 seems OK?
>>
>>Thanks in anticipation
>>
>>Peter
>
> I am curious as to why you think you need one.
> The topic of spikes and other evils on the bus
> has been discussed here on the list since day-one,
> but to date, nobody has offered data from a repeatable
> experiment that illuminates sources, intensities and
> energy content of any perturbations of interest on
> an airplane or any other vehicular DC power system.
>
> Thus far, proponents of prophylactic measures such as
>
> Transorbs, MOVs, etc. have only cited the sales
> literature for such products that strongly suggest
> that you buy a lot of their product and sprinkle
> liberally about your system . . . at least having done
> so might make you feel good. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/AN9312.pdf
>
> Keep in mind too that a Transorb rated at 18v goes into
> a hard limit at over 25 volts when it's "working hard"
> at it's intended task. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/15ke.pdf
>
>
> Just be aware that to date, nobody has come forward
> with an engineering justification for sprinkling Transorbs
> around any part of the airplane's electrical system and
> then explained the simple-ideas that support their
> proposition. Those who have championed the Transorb
> most vigorously have overlooked and/or ignored the wide
> range of clamping voltage when the device is stressed
> over the full range of its ratings. An 18v Transorb
> does NOT guarantee that the device being "protected"
> will not suffer a spiking event that exceeds 18v by
> a considerable margin.
>
> Don't mis-interpret my suggestions here. Transorbs
> are marvelous devices and I've designed dozens of
> circuits that utilize these nifty gizmos to stand off
> the effects of lightning strokes! But the notion that
> they're useful for much of what folks tend to worry about
> in little airplanes is not supported in physics or practice.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Slick mag P-lead ground wire |
| From: | aaa(at)pacifier.com |
I see the P-lead and the ground lug on the back of the Slik mag.
I know I need to use a coaxial wire with the center conductor on the
P-lead and the braided outer conductor on the ground lug.
Two questions:
1) What gage wire do I use. I have some 22 gage coax already run, but is
ths big enough.
2) Do I ground the center conducto to a local ground point at the switch
on the panel or do I ground it to the coax outer conductor?
Thanks
Duane Wilson
RV9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
I've been receiving requests for a Load Analysis
spreadsheet that I created during the build of my RV-7A.
I thought I would make it's location public in this
forum since most of the requests came from attendees of
the 'lectric class.
This chart is not guaranteed to be accurate and you should
do your own analysis, but his may be a quick start for
some of you.
http://www.rv7-a.com/LoadAnalysis.xls
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
http://www.evorocket.com - Building
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's copper foil NAV antenna |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I also posted in the Vanairforce.
I installed the Van's NAV antenna which is a 24" *0.5 strip of copper
foil glued to the bottom surface of the right wingtip.
I installed my GNS 430 but could not hear the NAV on the ground with the
VOR beacon about a mile away.
Apparently the beacon should have been easy to pick up. I have a
splitter to generate the G/S from the same antenna.
Do these antenna's actually work????
I should have checked continuity from the radio to antenna but of course
I did'nt!
Thanks
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
Bob et al.
Some time ago my aircraft took a lightning hit which damaged many electronic
devices, with the exception of the Apollo GX60 and SL70. Now I don't know
if this was because these are well designed products or they were just
having a lucky day, but my question, would a heavy duty transorb help in a
catastrophic even like this ?
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: AeroElectric-List: Transorb voltage for 14V
system
>
>Peter
I am curious as to why you think you need one.
The topic of spikes and other evils on the bus
has been discussed here on the list since day-one,
but to date, nobody has offered data from a repeatable
experiment that illuminates sources, intensities and
energy content of any perturbations of interest on
an airplane or any other vehicular DC power system.
Thus far, proponents of prophylactic measures such as
Transorbs, MOVs, etc. have only cited the sales
literature for such products that strongly suggest
that you buy a lot of their product and sprinkle
liberally about your system . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Run fiber optic cable; no extra wiring to do.
Rob Wright
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:07 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED extension
I am installing an electronic circuit (Flap Positionong System) which has a
3 colour LED on it. I am puting this box inside the flap enclosure of my RV,
thus hiden in a place out of sight.
Since I need, for some operations, to see the LED, I am thinking in puting
another 3 colour LED somewhere in the panel. How should I connect the pannel
LED to the circuit LED? Is it just a 3 wire connection? And both LED's would
show the same?
TIA
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick mag P-lead ground wire |
>
>I see the P-lead and the ground lug on the back of the Slik mag.
>
>I know I need to use a coaxial wire with the center conductor on the
>P-lead and the braided outer conductor on the ground lug.
>
>Two questions:
>
>1) What gage wire do I use. I have some 22 gage coax already run, but is
>ths big enough.
22 is electrically fine . . . at many TC aircraft facilities,
20 or 18AWG is used simply for mechanical robustness.
>2) Do I ground the center conducto to a local ground point at the switch
>on the panel or do I ground it to the coax outer conductor?
Grounding to shield is preferred. See exemplar schematics
in:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
>
>Bob
>
>I'm building a RV9A and using a variant of Z-11 as the electrical system.
>Basically the endurance bus is provided by a composite design mini-power
>panel http://www.compositedesigninc.com/Mini_Power.htm except that this
>has all the electrics connected to it except the alternator field,
>Critically, the non-switchable load is only a measured 0.8amp for a Dynon
>D10A and engine instruments.
>I'm using a IR 125NQ015 diode mounted directly onto the power panel
>positive bus (this is a great device with 1/4" screw terminal for the
>incoming feed and its case as the output. This has a VF of only 0.33V so
>at my full load is only dissipating about 8 Watts.
>I'm intending to use a 5000W axial transorb across the terminals of the
>power panel to provide both a level of spike protection . . .
From what spikes?
> . . . but also overvoltage protection. I've conducted experiments with
> a 9V version of the transorb and demonstrated that I can blow either my
> endurance bus fuse or my alternator current limiter without damage to the
> transorb. In other words an overvoltage on the alternator should blow its
> own fuse and if any transients exist they would also be mopped up. The
> transorb voltage is obviously critical in this. I don't want it
> conducting in any normal situation, but do want it to let go as soon as
> any significant overvoltage condition exists.
>
>Without wishing to start any further spike protection or alternator
>overvoltage wars, I'm very interested in your views on this approach.
What kind of alternator? And did you measure the voltage
across the transorb just prior to fuse opening and bringing
an ov event to heel?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Sorry Bob, didn't mean to offend any. It is just that most of my questions
>are somewhat covered, I was looking for more precise answers and why,
>especially the antennae questions. E.g. is it better to use a bent whip on
>the belly and try to get a ground plane on the carbon fiber or is it
>better to use a antennae for composite and built it in the rudder. Why is
>it better and how do I get the ground for this composite antennae?
>I'll try to be more precise with my questioning in the future.
No problem . . . and if anyone took offense at your
question, that's their problem . . . not yours.
Now that I understand your question better, I'll try to
be more concise as well.
Any antenna mounted in proximity to a conductor that
is NOT specifically designed to be part of the antenna
(i.e. carbon fin) is going to degrade the performance
of that antenna from the "ideal" uniformly circular
pattern. Carbon fiber as a less than ideal conductor
will turn part of your radiated signal into heat instead
of allowing it to propagate un-attenuated to the listener's
antenna and receiver.
Generally speaking, mounting the antenna into the vertical
fin is demonstrably poorer performing that one perched
on a good ground plane and relatively clear of parasitic
conductors.
If it were my airplane, I'd go for a top or bottom mount
on the fuselage with ground plane radials added to the
inside surface of the carbon fiber. This is going to
produce the very best we know how to do on the decidedly
limiting situation that is the light aircraft.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis |
I've added Walter's offering to a collection of load
analysis examples at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis
Bob . . .
>
>I've been receiving requests for a Load Analysis
>spreadsheet that I created during the build of my RV-7A.
>
>I thought I would make it's location public in this
>forum since most of the requests came from attendees of
>the 'lectric class.
>
>This chart is not guaranteed to be accurate and you should
>do your own analysis, but his may be a quick start for
>some of you.
>
>http://www.rv7-a.com/LoadAnalysis.xls
>
>--
>Walter Tondu
>http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
>http://www.evorocket.com - Building
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's copper foil NAV antenna |
>
>
> I also posted in the Vanairforce.
>
>I installed the Van's NAV antenna which is a 24" *0.5 strip of copper
>foil glued to the bottom surface of the right wingtip.
>
>I installed my GNS 430 but could not hear the NAV on the ground with the
>VOR beacon about a mile away.
>
>Apparently the beacon should have been easy to pick up. I have a
>splitter to generate the G/S from the same antenna.
>
>Do these antenna's actually work????
>
>I should have checked continuity from the radio to antenna but of course
>I did'nt!
A wet string will "work" . . . the operative consideration
is "how well" fir the missions in which you plan to
use your airplane. For users who fly in densely populated
VOR environments, perhaps a wet string works "great" . . . for
folks that fly the long stretch Victor airways and
need optimized fore/aft response patterns from their
VOR antennas, it's another matter.
If Van offers the antenna, it's likely that a number of
folks have installed it and found it "useful" for the
flying they do.
If it were my airplane, I'm not sure I even have
VOR capability on board other than to meet some
regulatory requirements for certain types of flight.
In this case, the wet string (or perhaps Van's less
than optimum antenna) would suffice. GPS would most
certainly be my primary and backup radio navigation
systems.
Bottom line is that you'll have to try it and see
what it does for you.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Sorry for the confusion.
>
>I'm not trying to solve an RFI problem. I'm setting up the radios and want
>maxiumum transmit and receive abilities and clear audio on both ends. I
>was thinking that RF grounds might make the "system" (XCOM/Sonex or
>CB/F150) more effecient. I was wondering if braided wire bonding straps
>were really better than stranded wire... and if so, why??? And what's the
>difference in bonding between VHF (air) versus HF (truck) as far as
>technic is concerned. I'm just one of those wierdos that thinks it's cool
>to hear a guy in the pattern in Fort Payne, Alabama when I'm in the
>pattern in Sweetwater, Tennessee :O)
What are you going to "bond" and to "where"?
When we qualify various appliances both for their
potential roles as antagonists and as victims
the equipment is tested "as installed" in the
airplane.
If you find that there is value in adding a bonding
strap to cure a problem, then this is indicative of
poor appliance design and deficient testing.
Unless the manufacturer's installation instructions
call for extra-ordinary additions of RF bonding
leads, then adding them just for the heck of it
(or in hopes of achieving performance nobody else
has) is wishful thinking.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
Bob
I didn't measure the voltage the transorb opened but it was clearly enough
open at 12.5 volts which was the battery voltage to blow a 25amp fuse.
I'm using a prestolite externally regulated 60amp alternator with a
Zeftronics regulator.
I don't know if there are any transients that a transorb might solve but I'm
only intending to put one across the power panel and at $10 it seems like
cheap insurance with no obvious downside
Best regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transorb voltage for 14V system
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>I'm building a RV9A and using a variant of Z-11 as the electrical system.
>>Basically the endurance bus is provided by a composite design mini-power
>>panel http://www.compositedesigninc.com/Mini_Power.htm except that this
>>has all the electrics connected to it except the alternator field,
>>Critically, the non-switchable load is only a measured 0.8amp for a Dynon
>>D10A and engine instruments.
>>I'm using a IR 125NQ015 diode mounted directly onto the power panel
>>positive bus (this is a great device with 1/4" screw terminal for the
>>incoming feed and its case as the output. This has a VF of only 0.33V so
>>at my full load is only dissipating about 8 Watts.
>>I'm intending to use a 5000W axial transorb across the terminals of the
>>power panel to provide both a level of spike protection . . .
>
>
> From what spikes?
>
>> . . . but also overvoltage protection. I've conducted experiments with
>> a 9V version of the transorb and demonstrated that I can blow either my
>> endurance bus fuse or my alternator current limiter without damage to the
>> transorb. In other words an overvoltage on the alternator should blow its
>> own fuse and if any transients exist they would also be mopped up. The
>> transorb voltage is obviously critical in this. I don't want it
>> conducting in any normal situation, but do want it to let go as soon as
>> any significant overvoltage condition exists.
>>
>>Without wishing to start any further spike protection or alternator
>>overvoltage wars, I'm very interested in your views on this approach.
>
> What kind of alternator? And did you measure the voltage
> across the transorb just prior to fuse opening and bringing
> an ov event to heel?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Who's The Buzz Box Producer |
Please, someone, post the name/email of the gent who produces the kits and
the already made-up buzz boxes for mag timing. It's the one with three
leads and red and green LED's to time both mags and is built into a thermo
formed black ABS plastic box.
Many thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre' jerry(at)mc.net
RV4 Flying
RV8A Electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Bob and listers
I am installing an electronic circuit (Flap Positioning System) which has a
3 colour LED on it. I am puting this box inside the flap enclosure of my
RV,
thus hiden in a place out of sight.
Since I need, for some operations, to see the LED, I am thinking in puting
another 3 colour LED somewhere in the panel. How should I connect the
pannel
LED to the circuit LED? Is it just a 3 wire connection? And both LED's
would
show the same?
TIA
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who's The Buzz Box Producer |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
>
>
> Please, someone, post the name/email of the gent who produces the kits
> and the already made-up buzz boxes for mag timing. It's the one with
> three leads and red and green LED's to time both mags and is built
> into a thermo formed black ABS plastic box.
I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.magnetotimer.com/
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Definition of Alternator B-lead? |
Bob has recommended keeping the B-lead out of the cockpit to avoid
electromagnetic interference with instruments & radios. How much of the
B-lead are we concerned about? Looking at Z-13/8, it seems to me that
all
five wires connected to the battery contactor (except the master switch
wire), plus the E-bus main feed path, are all electrically equivalent to
the
B-lead. Does that mean, if the goal is to keep the B-lead out of the
cockpit, that the battery, the battery contactor, and the three power
busses must be forward of the firewall too? If not, where do you draw
the
line? What's the ideal, and if one must compromise, how should one
prioritize component location?
Thanks.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Definition of Alternator B-lead? |
>Bob has recommended keeping the B-lead out of the cockpit to avoid
>electromagnetic interference with instruments & radios. How much of the
>B-lead are we concerned about? Looking at Z-13/8, it seems to me that all
>five wires connected to the battery contactor (except the master switch
>wire), plus the E-bus main feed path, are all electrically equivalent to
>the B-lead. Does that mean, if the goal is to keep the B-lead out of the
>cockpit, that the battery, the battery contactor, and the three power
>busses must be forward of the firewall too? If not, where do you draw the
>line? What s the ideal, and if one must compromise, how should one
>prioritize component location?
The "b-lead" is limited to that hunk of wire that
runs from the alternator to the circuit protection
(classically a breaker on the panel).
The b-lead has strong magnetic fields modulated
with alternator ripple. It's useful to keep this
(and all other FAT wires) as far from potential
victims as practical . . . if everything BUT the
bus feeders could be kept forward of the firewall,
super. Depart from this 'ideal' as needed but make
all practical efforts to maintain separation.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Definition of Alternator B-lead? |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I just looked at the latest z13/8 and noticed something interesting about
the drawing.. The B-lead coming from the alternator to the starter
contactor is listed as 4g. I think that might be overkill for that
portion of the circuit, as something as small as 10g (8g to be
conservative) would do for a 60A alternator.
The output of the alternator is noisy. Using the fatest wire to connect
the alternator to the battery provides the best filtering. Making the
wire between the starter contactor and battery contactor perform double
duty allows using a much fatter wire for the alternator without any
penalty (for many architectures).
The RI noise will be worst on the starter end of the wire between the
starter contactor and the battery contactor. Ideally the system
architecture would allow making the connection between the battery and
battery contactor short as compared to the connection between the battery
contactor and the starter contactor. This will minimize the noise on the
remaining connections to the battery contactor. Keeping the wire between
the battery contactor and the battery short also makes the contactor
perform as it's intended - to de-energize the majority of the electrical
system.
I believe there have been system architectures that routed the b-lead
directly to an ammeter on the panel, and then to the battery, with a
totally seperate wire used to power the starter. Using a remote shunt in
line with the b-lead, as in the Z-drawing eliminates any need for such
nonsense.
If the engine is in the nose, and the battery is behind the cockpit,
obviously, the B-lead/starter_feed will go through the cockpit.. If you
have a choice, keep that wire further from the panel than you would other
wiring. Don't use the starter end of that wire to power anything else -
make all connections as close to the battery contactor as possible.
Sorry if that seems like an indirect answer to your query...
Regards,
Matt-
> Bob has recommended keeping the B-lead out of the cockpit to avoid
> electromagnetic interference with instruments & radios. How much of the
> B-lead are we concerned about? Looking at Z-13/8, it seems to me that all
> five wires connected to the battery contactor (except the master switch
> wire), plus the E-bus main feed path, are all electrically equivalent to
> the
> B-lead. Does that mean, if the goal is to keep the B-lead out of the
> cockpit, that the battery, the battery contactor, and the three power
> busses must be forward of the firewall too? If not, where do you draw the
> line? What's the ideal, and if one must compromise, how should one
> prioritize component location?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Definition of Alternator B-lead? |
>
>
>If the engine is in the nose, and the battery is behind the cockpit,
>obviously, the B-lead/starter_feed will go through the cockpit..
but easily kept low on the firewall and under the floorboards . . .
> If you
>have a choice, keep that wire further from the panel than you would other
>wiring. Don't use the starter end of that wire to power anything else -
>make all connections as close to the battery contactor as possible.
If the battery is in the rear, then the starter contactor
becomes the forward local power distribution point for
fat wires that connect to the alternator and main bus.
Keeping the b-lead out of the cockpit focused very narrowly
on the decades old practice of feeding generators/alternators
onto the bus with panel mounted breakers.
For fat wires in general, SEPARATION from compass for reducing
magnetic effects is a good thing to do . . . but in small airplanes,
it's probably impossible to get the fat wires so far from the
compass that noticeable effects are zero. This is why compass
swinging procedures call for making note of what electro-whizzies
are ON during the procedure. Magnetic coupling of noise to other
systems is easily handled by not bundling victim wires with
fat wires.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED extension |
>
>
>Bob and listers
>
>
>I am installing an electronic circuit (Flap Positioning System) which has a
>3 colour LED on it. I am puting this box inside the flap enclosure of my RV,
>thus hiden in a place out of sight.
>Since I need, for some operations, to see the LED, I am thinking in puting
>another 3 colour LED somewhere in the panel. How should I connect the pannel
>LED to the circuit LED? Is it just a 3 wire connection? And both LED's would
>show the same?
>
>TIA
>Carlos
Difficult to advise without having a schematic of your
hardware. Do the installation instructions for this
system offer any options for remote indication at all?
What do these lights indicate?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
>
>Bob
>
>I didn't measure the voltage the transorb opened but it was clearly enough
>open at 12.5 volts which was the battery voltage to blow a 25amp fuse.
I'm lost. Was this experiment conducted just to see if
you could open the 25A fuse with a conducting Transorb?
It's not that the experiment didn't yield meaningful data,
I'm not clear where you're proposing to connect a Transorb
of any voltage and what you expect it to do for you.
>I'm using a prestolite externally regulated 60amp alternator with a
>Zeftronics regulator.
Okay, from an architecture perspective, this looks like
Z-11. Where would you install the Transorb in Z-11?
>I don't know if there are any transients that a transorb might solve but
>I'm only intending to put one across the power panel and at $10 it seems
>like cheap insurance with no obvious downside
One can probably buy really cheap insurance against
pink elephant stampedes and meteor strikes too. Of course
it's your airplane and you can do anything you like. But for
the benefit of 1300+ folks who watch this List go by, let
us be clear on features that meet quantifiable and demonstrable
design goals . . . and those that are cheap and simply feel good.
When you ask the question about sizing a Transorb for use
in your system, the question is unanswerable without knowing
exactly what you expect the device to accomplish and whether
or not it's capable of meeting your expectations.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
>
>
>Bob et al.
>
>Some time ago my aircraft took a lightning hit which damaged many electronic
>devices, with the exception of the Apollo GX60 and SL70. Now I don't know
>if this was because these are well designed products or they were just
>having a lucky day, but my question, would a heavy duty transorb help in a
>catastrophic even like this ?
>
>Paul
Yeah, I recall that. When we do DO-160 qualification for
the effects of lightning, there are a bunch of levels of test
stress presumably based on real world indirect effects (device
and associated wiring doesn't take stroke current) and direct
effects (device takes the hit . . . like your strobes).
The levels are adjusted depending on the material from
which the airplane is built and on the device's position
on the airplane. Obviously, direct effects to an antenna
stuck out the top is a stronger test value than for some
3-wire transducer hiding somewhere inside the engine
where only common mode indirect effects are expected.
For your case, you've got the highest/steepest hill to
climb for 'certifiable' resistance to lightning stroke.
In fact, under the current design rules, no plastic airplane
can be expected or tested to withstand much of anything in
terms of real-world effects of lightning.
The short answer to you question is, yeah we COULD design
an electrical system for your airplane that would have
a 95% chance of standing off a direct effects stroke but
the cost, weight and volume of the finished system would
probably be more than you'd want to consider . . . and it
would involve a whole lot more than sprinkling a few
Transorbs around the system.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Reasonable qualification for flight hardware? |
I am testing out a new LED comet-like flasher and 48-diode lamp to be
used as a beacon under a clear rudder tip fairing. Both are inexpensive
Chinese imports designed for automotive application. Brightness and
flash rate/pattern are very good, but I was wondering what is a
"reasonable" test period to run the thing on the ground before
installing one in the OBAM plane? 100 hours, 2000 hours?
Clearly it should also depend on whether there is any failure, whether
the failure is the lamp or the flasher, and whether it is a single diode
burn out or total failure. Also, after the testing, which will not be
comprehensive like a commercial venture (no statistics here), would it
be preferable to install the already-tested hardware or a completely new
set?
Any guidance here?
Andy Elliott
N601GE (601XL/TD, Corvair, building)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Groud Power Recptacle |
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>
>
>Can I hook up a short 4 guage wire to the positive battery terminal, then
>when I want to either charge the battery or use ground power, hook up to
>the appropriate ground power, a positive lead jumper cable to the 4 guage
>wire I hooked up to the battery terminal, and the negative ground jumper
>cable to the exhause pipe? Would this provide the same ground power and
>charging capability as installing a ground power recepticle?
No. The schematics for ground power include
reverse polarity protection, pilot control of
ground power from the cockpit and over voltage
protection. Further, the receptacle offers a means
by which many FBO's can provide you the ground
power service by using a connector that's common
to their suite of ramp tools.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reasonable qualification for flight hardware? |
>I am testing out a new LED comet-like flasher and 48-diode lamp to be used
>as a beacon under a clear rudder tip fairing. Both are inexpensive
>Chinese imports designed for automotive application. Brightness and flash
>rate/pattern are very good, but I was wondering what is a "reasonable"
>test period to run the thing on the ground before installing one in the
>OBAM plane? 100 hours, 2000 hours?
Why not use the OBAM aircraft as the test bed. It's
your airplane and nothing is preventing you from using
whatever lighting schemes you choose.
>
>Clearly it should also depend on whether there is any failure, whether the
>failure is the lamp or the flasher, and whether it is a single diode burn
>out or total failure. Also, after the testing, which will not be
>comprehensive like a commercial venture (no statistics here), would it be
>preferable to install the already-tested hardware or a completely new set?
Is it your desire/intent that this product meet
FAA requirements for lighting under FAR91? That's
a wholly different ball game. Here the questions are
not so much one of service life but of gross intensity
along the various axis external to the aircraft. A really
tedious test to do and requires some equipment with
reasonable expectations for accuracy.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transorb voltage for 14V system |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
So that would be a maybe?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: AeroElectric-List: Transorb voltage for
14V system
-->
>
>
>Bob et al.
>
>Some time ago my aircraft took a lightning hit which damaged many
>electronic devices, with the exception of the Apollo GX60 and SL70.
>Now I don't know if this was because these are well designed products
>or they were just having a lucky day, but my question, would a heavy
>duty transorb help in a catastrophic even like this ?
>
>Paul
Yeah, I recall that. When we do DO-160 qualification for
the effects of lightning, there are a bunch of levels of test
stress presumably based on real world indirect effects (device
and associated wiring doesn't take stroke current) and direct
effects (device takes the hit . . . like your strobes).
The levels are adjusted depending on the material from
which the airplane is built and on the device's position
on the airplane. Obviously, direct effects to an antenna
stuck out the top is a stronger test value than for some
3-wire transducer hiding somewhere inside the engine
where only common mode indirect effects are expected.
For your case, you've got the highest/steepest hill to
climb for 'certifiable' resistance to lightning stroke.
In fact, under the current design rules, no plastic airplane
can be expected or tested to withstand much of anything in
terms of real-world effects of lightning.
The short answer to you question is, yeah we COULD design
an electrical system for your airplane that would have
a 95% chance of standing off a direct effects stroke but
the cost, weight and volume of the finished system would
probably be more than you'd want to consider . . . and it
would involve a whole lot more than sprinkling a few
Transorbs around the system.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: LED extension |
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob and listers
>>
>>
>>I am installing an electronic circuit (Flap Positioning System) which has
>>a
>>3 colour LED on it. I am puting this box inside the flap enclosure of my
>>RV,
>>thus hiden in a place out of sight.
>>Since I need, for some operations, to see the LED, I am thinking in puting
>>another 3 colour LED somewhere in the panel. How should I connect the
>>pannel
>>LED to the circuit LED? Is it just a 3 wire connection? And both LED's
>>would
>>show the same?
>>
>>TIA
>>Carlos
>
> Difficult to advise without having a schematic of your
> hardware. Do the installation instructions for this
> system offer any options for remote indication at all?
>
> What do these lights indicate?
>
> Bob . . .
The installation instructions don't provide any option for remote
indication.
This LED indicates the mode of operation (number of blinks in Red color
showing mode 1 to 6), programming mode (blinking yellow) and memory erased
(blinking green).
The 3 color LED is soldered to the circuit by its 3 "legs".
What I'm asking is if I can connect a similar LED installed in my panel with
a 3 wire cable to the 3 circuit LED contacts.
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reasonable qualification for flight hardware? |
You probably need to find out whether the FARs on light intensity
apply to experimental aircraft or not. Google around a bit, because
some pretty smart people have already done a lot of testing of LEDs
for use in aircraft external lighting.
It is common in the electronics manufacturing world to do "burn-in"
testing for at least 2 or 3 days, during which time the device is
cycled on for a few hours, off for a few hours, preferably including
and possibly exceeding the temperature ranges in which the device is
likely to be operating. Most electronic component failures are
infant-mortality type, meaning that if they survive a few days of
intensive testing, they will probably last a long time.
Dave Morris
At 08:23 AM 11/8/2006, you wrote:
>I am testing out a new LED comet-like flasher and 48-diode lamp to
>be used as a beacon under a clear rudder tip fairing. Both are
>inexpensive Chinese imports designed for automotive
>application. Brightness and flash rate/pattern are very good, but I
>was wondering what is a "reasonable" test period to run the thing on
>the ground before installing one in the OBAM plane? 100 hours, 2000 hours?
>
>Clearly it should also depend on whether there is any failure,
>whether the failure is the lamp or the flasher, and whether it is a
>single diode burn out or total failure. Also, after the testing,
>which will not be comprehensive like a commercial venture (no
>statistics here), would it be preferable to install the
>already-tested hardware or a completely new set?
>
>Any guidance here?
>
>Andy Elliott
>N601GE (601XL/TD, Corvair, building)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED extension |
>>
>> Difficult to advise without having a schematic of your
>> hardware. Do the installation instructions for this
>> system offer any options for remote indication at all?
>>
>> What do these lights indicate?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>The installation instructions don't provide any option for remote indication.
>
>This LED indicates the mode of operation (number of blinks in Red color
>showing mode 1 to 6), programming mode (blinking yellow) and memory erased
>(blinking green).
>The 3 color LED is soldered to the circuit by its 3 "legs".
>
>What I'm asking is if I can connect a similar LED installed in my panel
>with a 3 wire cable to the 3 circuit LED contacts.
Sounds good to me. You won't be able to wire in parallel
with the existing LED . . . take it out and drop your three
wires into the same holes where the LED used to reside.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making 28v from 2 14v sources - Revisited |
Well based on the response form Bob and others I revisited the
Engine/Belt driven A/C system. It turns out that with my engine and cowl
combination that there is not room enough to mount both a compressor and
an alternator. So, it looks like my options are; either to convert my
electric system to 28v (ugh!). or pursue the 'stacked' approach.
Bob:
When you say 'electrically isolated' are you saying that the "top"
system would have to NOT share a common ground with the bottom system?
what other 'isolation' would be required
"This would require a special alternator for the #2 machine." I assume
you are referring to the "top" system (?) could the SD-20 perform this
function as the alternator for the #2 machine, what is the "Special"
requirement of this alternator.
A bottom alternator large enough to carry ship's load plus the A/C load
is not a problem.
Re: backing up the bottom with the top. When you say 'complex switching'
I infer this is more than just the cross feed contactor approach in Z14,
care to elaborate any further?
Thanks for the information and advice so far and for any additional
insight you can provide.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I have built a 14v dual battery, dual alternator system. (Z14). I
>> live in AZ and am interested in installing an air conditioning
>> system. In researching a/c systems, I'm uncomfortable with the added
>> mechanical complexity of running hoses and the engine driven
>> compressor into the engine compartment. I concede that this may be a
>> more efficient means of generating the power for the a/c, but it adds
>> complexity/weight and a load in an area that I would prefer not to. I
>> have identified a couple of sources that provide 28v AC systems. I
>> have too much invested into my build re 14 v components to warrant
>> redoing the electrical system (to 28v). So in noodling it seems to me
>> that _conceptually_ one should be able to take a feed from each of
>> the 14v systems and couple them together to produce the 28v required
>> for the ac unit. So, for those of you further along the electro
>> learning curve than I, is this _practically_ possible? If so what
>> components would be required to make the connection to produce 28V?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any consideration and input.
>>
>> PS Thanks for all of the input on the IPOD connect
>
>
> Not easy. You'd need to craft an electrically isolated
> 14 volt system to "stack" on top of the grounded system.
> This would require a special alternator for the #2 machine.
> Further, the "bottom" alternator would need to be scaled
> to carry normal ship's loads + the a/c.
>
> The "top" system would not be useable for backing up
> the bottom system without some complex switching.
> The pitfalls of all this are considerable not to mention
> the time and $ to implement it.
>
> I'd jump on a belt driven compressor in a heartbeat.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation... |
Dear Listers,
A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution
this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday.
I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically
as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal
AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics
List subscription.
If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are
subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell
that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address
instead of the List email.
I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy
way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is
ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the
same. Otherwise, everything works great.
If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't
match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this
message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually
update the records so that things will work as advertised.
Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-)
To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administration
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transorbs and Lightning |
>
>
>So that would be a maybe?
Sure . . . but 'maybe' comes in all sizes, flavors and
assurances. When Paul's airplane took the hit it appears
that the stroke came in one wingtip and out the other.
Since the current carrying paths for this event was wiring,
the qualification protocols would fall under "direct effects".
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Anatomy_of_a_Lightning_Strike.pdf
I gotta tell ya, when you take the direct hit, the design goals
have more to do with keeping the damage confined to the one
system . . . there's no Transorb made that will confidently
stand between mother nature's fireworks and your micro-processors,
itty-bitty resistors and light bulbs.
So yeah, I can agree that if Paul's airplane was generously
fitted with Transorbs, he MIGHT have suffered a bit less damage.
But as you can see from his post-event investigation, damage
levels were high enough to leave tracks on structure, burned
wires and caused internal damage sufficient to be manifest outside
the devices enclosure.
I cannot recommend the sprinkling of "Transorb dust" on your
airplane because the notion is not supported by the understanding
of simple-ideas. DO-160 testing and similar efforts are
repeatable experiments that have been demonstrated over
time to have value. There are numbers assigned to stress levels
and techniques designed to stand off those hazards.
If a builder is inclined to embrace "Transorb dust" as a
good thing to do, I'll suggest there is risk that the same
builder is subject to unsupported confidence in his/her
system to knock on the gates of hell and run away unscathed.
Many a good soul has been disappointed that boots and perhaps
a hot-prop didn't take them through "that little bit of ice".
To hypothesize about and recommend techniques that
can only be tested at the edges of the airplane's envelope
with pilot an passengers aboard is not good engineering.
It's far better that we do not venture up to those edges.
Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >Bob et al.
> >
> >Some time ago my aircraft took a lightning hit which damaged many
> >electronic devices, with the exception of the Apollo GX60 and SL70.
> >Now I don't know if this was because these are well designed products
> >or they were just having a lucky day, but my question, would a heavy
> >duty transorb help in a catastrophic even like this ?
> >
> >Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
>
>Well based on the response form Bob and others I revisited the Engine/Belt
>driven A/C system. It turns out that with my engine and cowl combination
>that there is not room enough to mount both a compressor and an
>alternator. So, it looks like my options are; either to convert my
>electric system to 28v (ugh!). or pursue the 'stacked' approach.
>
>Bob:
>
>When you say 'electrically isolated' are you saying that the "top" system
>would have to NOT share a common ground with the bottom system? what other
>'isolation' would be required
>
>"This would require a special alternator for the #2 machine." I assume
>you are referring to the "top" system (?) could the SD-20 perform this
>function as the alternator for the #2 machine, what is the "Special"
>requirement of this alternator.
No, the SD-20 is a 20amp machine. I'm suspecting that both
of your 14 volt systems will need to be in the 60 amp class
or larger. How much power does that a/c compressor need?
The "top" system cannot be grounded to airframe. Alernators
have diode arrays that are common to the alternator case by
design. If I were crafting a floating system for stacking,
I'd bypass the built in diodes and bring all of the alternator's
field and stator wires out to be handled as needed for
the system to run 14v above ground.
>A bottom alternator large enough to carry ship's load plus the A/C load is
>not a problem.
>
>
>Re: backing up the bottom with the top. When you say 'complex switching' I
>infer this is more than just the cross feed contactor approach in Z14,
>care to elaborate any further?
The problem is similar to the use of two batteries
in series for starting and running them in parallel
for flying. You need to sequence contactors in the right
order to accomplish the switching . . . stuck contactors
can create potential for spectacular events (a number of
MU-2's were set on fire about 35 years ago before they
installed limiters).
>Thanks for the information and advice so far and for any additional
>insight you can provide.
This is a MAJOR task. You'll have to fabricate a special
alternator regulator installation but is all possible.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lehman" <lehmans(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick mag P-lead ground wire |
Bob,
I have found a certified aircraft with the P-lead shield grounded at the mag
switch end as well as on the mag housing. Is there a down-side (i.e. noise)
to grounding the shield at both ends? (Surprisingly, the Maintenance Manual
for the aircraft does not include wiring for the mag switch or P-lead.)
Mike
>2) Do I ground the center conductor to a local ground point at the switch
>on the panel or do I ground it to the coax outer conductor?
Grounding to shield is preferred. See exemplar schematics
in:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick mag P-lead ground wire |
>
>Bob,
>
>I have found a certified aircraft with the P-lead shield grounded at the mag
>switch end as well as on the mag housing. Is there a down-side (i.e. noise)
>to grounding the shield at both ends? (Surprisingly, the Maintenance Manual
>for the aircraft does not include wiring for the mag switch or P-lead.)
There's a number of discussions for p-lead treatment in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/MagnetoSwitchOptions.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List/AeroElectric-List_FAQ.pdf
Open the .pdf files and search on "p-lead".
In a nutshell, for best noise reduction -AND- avoidance of
a fabricated ground loop, it's best to ground the shield at
one end only (mag end) and use the shield as the ground return
for the mag switch as illustrated in the z-figures and cited
in the two links above.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
Thanks again Bob,
The electric A/C system consumes 45 amps at peak load. Do _both_
alternators need to be capable of carrying ship's load plus the full
load of the A/C?. If so, then that's going to put the Kabosh to this
approach because there is not room enough to mount a 2nd 60-100A alt.
(beginning to sound like an onerous task for an electric greenhorn)
I was told that there is some 'new technology' (?) that will take the
output from an externally regulated alternator and split it into 2
separate outputs, one being 12-14v and the other 24-28v. I'm trying to
track this down, just wondering if you had heard anything on this tangent.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> No, the SD-20 is a 20amp machine. I'm suspecting that both
> of your 14 volt systems will need to be in the 60 amp class
> or larger. How much power does that a/c compressor need?
>
>
>> Thanks for the information and advice so far and for any additional
>> insight you can provide.
>
>
> This is a MAJOR task. You'll have to fabricate a special
> alternator regulator installation but is all possible.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Reasonable qualification for flight hardware? |
11/09/2006
Responding to a previous posting by Dave N6030X | Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Whenever this 28V from 14V subject comes up I implore the adventurous builder to
get the right unit in the first place instead of trying to stuff this beast
into the hole.
Viz.--Buy the right-voltage unit. If there isn't one, call the manufacturer.
Viz.--Modify the unit to run on 12V. Even this is easier than up-converting the
14 volts.
Viz.--Do the whole job another way. Put dry ice in the glovebox, move to Alaska,
open a window...whatever. It's surprising how cool sitting on a seat filled
with silver dollars can be.
Remember, voltage conversion is easy if the power is small. But FORGET IT when
the power gets large. Find some other way.
My two cents.
"When trouble arises and things look bad,
there is always one individual who perceives
a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy."
--Dave Barry
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73387#73387
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Reasonable qualification for flight hardware? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Reasonable qualification for flight
hardware?
When I was researching this I noted that the Creative Air system is
designed to meet the required FAA light intensity for certified
AC...Thats why you have to angle the LED's in a specified manner as they
are highly directional.
Mind you the best test was when my hangar neighbour was drooling over my
RV and looking at the lights and noting how cool the technology was...I
switched on the position lights for him to see not realising he was
staring straight at the lights....Temporarilly blinded the poor
guy...One could assume the FAA ramp inspector would suffer the same fate
if he doubted their effectiveness...:)
Frank
So I think that the answer to your question: "Do the FARs on light
intensity apply to ABEA or not?" depends upon the actions of the
individual initial airworthiness inspector. It may also be possible that
an FAA inspector during a ramp inspection could raise this issue.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
Thanks Eric, I appreciate the input, and I'm beginning to understand
that this is a bigger task, than my limited skills/knowledge will support.
So what about this for an 'approach'
Use 28V alternator (100amp capacity)
28V starter
2 14V batteries connected in series to produce 28V to the A/C
Take a 12-14/v feed off of the 1st battery and use that to drive the
existing 12V electro whizzies.
?
Or should I just sweat and save some $'s
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>Whenever this 28V from 14V subject comes up I implore the adventurous builder
to get the right unit in the first place instead of trying to stuff this beast
into the hole.
>
>Viz.--Buy the right-voltage unit. If there isn't one, call the manufacturer.
>
>Viz.--Modify the unit to run on 12V. Even this is easier than up-converting the
14 volts.
>
>Viz.--Do the whole job another way. Put dry ice in the glovebox, move to Alaska,
open a window...whatever. It's surprising how cool sitting on a seat filled
with silver dollars can be.
>
>Remember, voltage conversion is easy if the power is small. But FORGET IT when
the power gets large. Find some other way.
>
>My two cents.
>
>"When trouble arises and things look bad,
>there is always one individual who perceives
>a solution and is willing to take command.
>Very often, that individual is crazy."
> --Dave Barry
>
>--------
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge, MA 01550
>(508) 764-2072
>emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73387#73387
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slick mag P-lead ground wire |
| From: | aaa(at)pacifier.com |
Thanks Bob.
I will ground to the shield this weekend!!!
Duane
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>I have found a certified aircraft with the P-lead shield grounded at the
>> mag
>>switch end as well as on the mag housing. Is there a down-side (i.e.
>> noise)
>>to grounding the shield at both ends? (Surprisingly, the Maintenance
>> Manual
>>for the aircraft does not include wiring for the mag switch or P-lead.)
>
> There's a number of discussions for p-lead treatment in
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/MagnetoSwitchOptions.pdf
>
> and
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List/AeroElectric-List_FAQ.pdf
>
> Open the .pdf files and search on "p-lead".
>
> In a nutshell, for best noise reduction -AND- avoidance of
> a fabricated ground loop, it's best to ground the shield at
> one end only (mag end) and use the shield as the ground return
> for the mag switch as illustrated in the z-figures and cited
> in the two links above.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Garner <jgarner(at)dslextreme.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 'Scope offer from Saelig |
Hi Bob,
Just wondering what you think of the 'scope after a few months?
Thanks, Joe
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> A few days ago I mentioned an oscilloscope being offered by
> Saelig at:
>
> http://saelig.com/
>
> I just received the one I had on order. It's a rough clone
> of the Tektronix TDS200 series scopes. Only 25 Mhz but it's
> in color. Comes with two probes ($50 value alone). The USB
> cable and attending software lets you dump both image and
> tabular data to a computer. Here's the test setup on my
> bench.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/PDS5022S_OWON_Scope.jpg
>
> Once the data has been dumped to the computer it can be manipulated
> in a variety of ways including print to hard copy. Haven't had
> occasion to do any serious measurements but I can say that for
> $299, it's a hell-of-a-buy.
>
> I'm going to use it as my 'beater' scope to drag around
> for looking into problems on airplanes and save my Tek
> for less stressful bench work.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
Unfortunately, unless the other electrowhizzies are very low amperage,
you will be forever overcharging the second battery with this arrangement.
Depending what the amp draw of your other 12V electrowhizzies are you
might try using a 28V to 14V converter for them. Also, be aware that a
lot of the newer electrowhizzies will run from 12-28V so you could run
those off the 28V.
Depending on your mix of electronics you might be able to run the
majority off the 28V and run a few low draw units from the second
battery or from a small 28 to 14V converter.
There are certainly ways to do what you want to do, but I suspect that
you may end up sweating...
Dick Tasker
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> Thanks Eric, I appreciate the input, and I'm beginning to understand
> that this is a bigger task, than my limited skills/knowledge will
> support.
> So what about this for an 'approach'
>
> Use 28V alternator (100amp capacity)
> 28V starter
> 2 14V batteries connected in series to produce 28V to the A/C
> Take a 12-14/v feed off of the 1st battery and use that to drive the
> existing 12V electro whizzies.
>
> ?
>
>
> Or should I just sweat and save some $'s
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Whenever this 28V from 14V subject comes up I implore the adventurous
>> builder to get the right unit in the first place instead of trying to
>> stuff this beast into the hole.
>>
>> Viz.--Buy the right-voltage unit. If there isn't one, call the
>> manufacturer.
>>
>> Viz.--Modify the unit to run on 12V. Even this is easier than
>> up-converting the 14 volts.
>>
>> Viz.--Do the whole job another way. Put dry ice in the glovebox, move
>> to Alaska, open a window...whatever. It's surprising how cool
>> sitting on a seat filled with silver dollars can be.
>> Remember, voltage conversion is easy if the power is small. But
>> FORGET IT when the power gets large. Find some other way.
>>
>> My two cents.
>>
>> "When trouble arises and things look bad,
>> there is always one individual who perceives
>> a solution and is willing to take command.
>> Very often, that individual is crazy."
>> --Dave Barry
>>
>> --------
>> Eric M. Jones
>> www.PerihelionDesign.com
>> 113 Brentwood Drive
>> Southbridge, MA 01550
>> (508) 764-2072
>> emjones(at)charter.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73387#73387
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stacked 14v systems for 28v |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
If you Google "12 volt air conditioner" you get a boatload of hits. I'd search
very hard for a 12V solution on the internet.
Consider that almost all 12V cars have air conditioners--with the compressor running
off the engine. Do you need a huge electric motor to keep cool when the
engine is not running? Is this a mode of operation important to you? Better an
engine-driven compressor than a second alternator.
They used to use ground a/c. Could your operation do this?
I come at this question from a desire to minimize weight and complexity. My air
conditioning comes from the big fan in the nose. This may not be where you are
coming from.
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73420#73420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
Howdy those-that-know-
I am (as usual) trying something I know little about, but he'p me out here,
purty please!
Goal: light an annunciator LED when Trutrak servos are OFF. This is a
reminder that Digiflight is not flying the airplane. Normal condition is A/P on
for
normal flight with LED OFF.
Suggestion from Trutrak: connect NPN Darlington transistor base via a 10K
resistor to servo torque line on servo connector (pin 6- common to pin 4 or 16
on
back of Digitrak depending on pitch or roll servo) . Connect 12v to
annunciator LED+, LED ground to emitter and use transistor collector to ground
lamp.
If I got this right, the signal from the servo turns transistor on, completing
LED circuit, LED comes ON.
Problem is, Trutrak offered no guidance beyond "Darlington NPN transistor"
and I have googled, Digikeyed & Mousered trying to find an appropriate
transistor. The values are mystifying and require much research & education to
demystify. Best quess is this one in a TO-92 package:
http://rocky.digikey.com/scripts/ProductInfo.dll?Site=US&V=488&M=2N6426G
Supposing this is a good choice to turn the LED ON, can I turn the LED OFF by
using this transistor circuit to turn on a small relay and use relay N.C.
contacts connected to LED ground to turn off the LED when servo is energized, and
if so, what would be an appropriate relay?
Or is there a better way to do this?
I humble myself before y'all but THANKS just the same for any advice!
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transistorture |
Who did you talk to there? Was it on phone or by e-mail.
We could take a pretty good guess at what's being suggested
but it would be best to have a more pointed conversation with
them. If you can help me contact the right person, I'll see
if I can get a better definition of the task.
Bob . . .
>Howdy those-that-know-
>
>I am (as usual) trying something I know little about, but he'p me out
>here, purty please!
>
>Goal: light an annunciator LED when Trutrak servos are OFF. This is a
>reminder that Digiflight is not flying the airplane. Normal condition is
>A/P on for normal flight with LED OFF.
>
>Suggestion from Trutrak: connect NPN Darlington transistor base via a 10K
>resistor to servo torque line on servo connector (pin 6- common to pin 4
>or 16 on back of Digitrak depending on pitch or roll servo) . Connect 12v
>to annunciator LED+, LED ground to emitter and use transistor collector to
>ground lamp. If I got this right, the signal from the servo turns
>transistor on, completing LED circuit, LED comes ON.
>
>Problem is, Trutrak offered no guidance beyond "Darlington NPN transistor"
>and I have googled, Digikeyed & Mousered trying to find an appropriate
>transistor. The values are mystifying and require much research &
>education to demystify. Best quess is this one in a TO-92 package:
>
><http://rocky.digikey.com/scripts/ProductInfo.dll?Site=US&V=488&M=2N6426G>http://rocky.digikey.com/scripts/ProductInfo.dll?Site=US&V=488&M=2N6426G
>
>Supposing this is a good choice to turn the LED ON, can I turn the LED OFF
>by using this transistor circuit to turn on a small relay and use relay
>N.C. contacts connected to LED ground to turn off the LED when servo is
>energized, and if so, what would be an appropriate relay?
>
>Or is there a better way to do this?
>
>I humble myself before y'all but THANKS just the same for any advice!
>
>Mark Phillips
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 'Scope offer from Saelig |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Just wondering what you think of the 'scope after a few months?
>
>Thanks, Joe
I've only used it a few times for real (other
than playing) but so far, it performs as advertised.
For a two channel, digital storage scope in color,
the $399 regular selling price is an excellent value.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Garner <jgarner(at)dslextreme.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 'Scope offer from Saelig |
Thanks Bob,
We're thinking of getting some of these where I work for field techs.
Might get one to try out... Lots cheaper than the Teks, or the Fluke
196c that I have :}
/Joe
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Just wondering what you think of the 'scope after a few months?
>>
>> Thanks, Joe
>
>
> I've only used it a few times for real (other
> than playing) but so far, it performs as advertised.
> For a two channel, digital storage scope in color,
> the $399 regular selling price is an excellent value.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Joe Garner IASEL-RV 6@OAK
jgarner(at)elelink.org |
jgarner(at)dslextreme.com .______(o)______.
kc6utr(at)w6pw www.elelink.org / \
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: GPS Antenna Test |
I'm building a Bearhawk which has a tube and fabric fuselage. I have
been thinking about hiding my GPS Antenna under the fabric covering on
top of the Fuselage, just aft of the windshield channel.
I was worried about whether or not the GPS antenna would receive the
signal through the fabric with the Poly Spray which reflects UV rays
applied. So I devised a little experiment. I have published the
results on my website at this page:
http://mybearhawk.com/finish/gpstest.html
Enjoy,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682
http://mybearhawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition:
A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site
that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit
and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration.
This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for
collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software
itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site,
or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original
wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia.
Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific
Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic
that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not:
structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask
a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the
question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a
new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless
he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition.
The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited.
There are several things that happen as a result:
1. The person gets his or her question answered;
2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question;
3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed
at seeing the same things over and over and over and ...
So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered.
You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful.
So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki!
It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing
something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately.
It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence
and structure.
But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else
coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something
I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then!
So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying,
maintaining, and understanding our airplanes.
But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write
it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is,
he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that.
And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor
is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether
the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page.
The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't
this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding
no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia
written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good
as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want
to.
So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The
more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people
and the more information they will put here for YOU to use.
Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place):
http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal
But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List
features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund
Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying
Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | GTX327 power switching |
Hi,
Just working through our GTX327 connections, I can confirm:
If pin 15 is connected and pin 1 left unconnected, on 'power up' the box
does not switch on until a manual on/standby button is selected
If pin 15 and pin 1 are connected, on 'power up' it automatically switches
on (to standby).
What I would like is the 'in between option', ie. it remembers if it was on
or off when power was removed from the supply lines and returns to that
state next time power is provided.
Anyone got that situation working? Am I just being too specific?
Carl
--
ZK-VII - New Zealand - http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of D Fritz
Sent: Friday, 3 November 2006 9:09 a.m.
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GTX327 power switching
Erich,
I have the same transponder and it does the same thing yours does. I've
looked into it a little bit, but am deployed so I can't look at the wiring
on my unit. There appears to be a pin on the connector that, if powered, is
set up to have the unit power on automatically in the same state as last
used when the avionics master is turned on (or power applied to the
endurance bus in your case). My guess is that this pin is jumpered to the
bus power in my harness, I intend to check when I return. Take a look at
figure B4 in the installation manual. (Here's a link to Andy Plunket's
Glasair website with an install manual:
http://glasairproject.com/docs/Garmin327im.pdf)
Dan Fritz
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transistorture |
>In a message dated 11/10/2006 8:47:51 AM Central Standard Time,
>nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
>The schematic helped. See attached .pdf
>
>Amazing- once again you have taught and assisted beyond all expectations-
>circuit B puts LED supply to ground potential for the big turn off! This
>is too cool- lots of uses for this, time ta git busy (gotta figure out
>packaging)... 8-)
>
>THANK YOU SIR!!!
You're most welcome. Consider "potting".
Small circuits like this can be simply
spider-webbed together, checked for function
and then potted in epoxy using just about
any form of the right shape and volume.
Since the epoxy offers the structural
integrity, the enclosure need only hold things
in place until the epoxy sets up.
bundle the wires and put a sleeve of heat
shrink over them so that there is some
bend relief offered by the shrink where
the wires exit the epoxy.
Avoid fast setting epoxies . . . all epoxies
warm up and the large volume applications
using fast epoxy may get so hot as to boil
over. Get some long pot life stuff, 30 minutes
or more and it will probably work just fine.
Once your circuit is suitably ensconced in
plastic, you can bond a mounting plate to
the bottom with E-6000.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 'Scope offer from Saelig |
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>We're thinking of getting some of these where I work for field techs.
>Might get one to try out... Lots cheaper than the Teks, or the Fluke
>196c that I have :}
>
>/Joe
Depending on your budget, the OWON may be an excellent
option. Don't forget ebay either. I have some folks at
RAC and their kids who take Saturday morning classes
I've taught out at WSU. A 'scope is one of those dead-nuts-
simple ways to help people visualize the dynamics of
circuit operation. I've been able to pick up perfectly
serviceable 'scopes off ebay and fit them with new
probes for under $150 total. I've acquired the occasional
really nice one for under $250.
While a 'scope is generally way down on the list of
tools for the hobbyist, I've found it useful to push
for early acquisition. With access to the 'scope,
some of these kids are acquiring a hands-on, real-time
visualization of circuit dynamics They're getting an
introduction to range and domain graphical analysis
even before they take algebra or calculus.
When their teachers throw those concepts up on the
board in coming years, the kids with the 'scopes will
have an immediate and solid understand of the concepts
and the utility they offer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Measurement Idea |
I have just finished rereading the Connection and it is amazing what you
learn when you go through another cycle of education. Of particular
interest to me this time through was a comment Bob made at the end of the
Temperature Chapter regarding using a switch box and multiple home made
thermocouples to measure critical temperatures during flyoff. There were
several items that he suggested that I had not even considered. As an
example: alternator stator temp, alternator regulator temp are two he
suggested. I quickly extrapolated to all the things I would like to know
like electronic ignition coil temp, and then there is the in and out oil
temp and air temp to evaluate my oil cooler installation. Next I thought of
the intercooler in and out charge and cooling air temps. The list for my
turbocharged engine quickly rose to thirty some odd items to evaluate
temperature on during the test flight phase. I did some research in the
AeroElectircic archives and found a few suggestions for PC data collection
interfaces but when I looked at the cost per port my data collection system
was easily over a thousand dollars with an assembeled price point of
$30/port.
So now my design problem became how do I reduce the price per port for a 30
port temperature data collection device? I refined what I wanted to know to
be three phases of temperature: OK (green), Marginal (yellow), and BAD
(red). So now I'm thinking graph segment LEDs and a home made thermocouple
driver. I plan to use one AD595 in therometer mode as the 0degC reference
point and multiple LM324 quad-op-amps to resolve the thermocouple input with
the appropriate gain to yield 10mv/degC. Then use additional op-amps to
detect and drive the green, yellow and red temperatures for the particular
port.
Right now I'm thinking that this will be a perminent part of the aircraft to
watch out for temperature performance degraditon and warn me what to look
into with more detailed instrumentation in the future. If a particular
chanel shows a problem I can attach that thermocouple to my EIS system and
collect real time temperatures about that item of interest until things are
resolved. After the problem is solved the chanel goes back to the green,
yellow, red annunciator to insure proper long term performance.
I have built a schematic using ExpressPCB software planning to have them
make the prototype PCBs for this project. I have attached a jpg diagram of
the schematic for peer review. The price per port comes out to under
$5/port with this system for thirty or more ports.
Before I put this idea into hardware does anyone see anthing wrong with the
logic?
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA
91% done only 65% to go!
PS I know I left the capacitors off the voltage regulator!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Measurement Idea |
This won't be helpful but for a little devil's advocate...
Why monitor something unless you know what the temperature should be?
Even with the EIS you may find your normal temperature ranges to be
larger than expected and you don't want nuisance flashing red light
warnings in flight or you will be training yourself to ignore them or
cancel them out of habit. With my subaru I can tell you that the more
instrumentation you have, the more questions come up, and the less
flying you will do. There are many "experts" around that will quote
numbers for things that they have never actually measured or numbers
from uncalibrated sensors. It's an educational adventure but don't over
do it if you'd rather be flying than tinkering. Since we have installed
a fault tolerant system, does it matter what the alternator stator temp
or regulator temp is? If failures start appearing then it would be
appropriate to investigate but is it worth all this extra effort up
front and will it be a possibly dangerous inflight distraction?
With more than 3 or 4 items there is little chance of collecting
meaningful data unless it is automatically recorded for later perusal.
Recording can be as simple as a video camera if you put all those
displays on the panel. I used the four CHT inputs on my EIS to look at
various things that I was curious about initially but I have no real
further use for that information. In fact I had little further use for
most of it once I got past the ground running phase of testing. Many
under cowl temps are too low to get accurate data from a thermocouple.
My EIS reads at least 30*C too low at 90*C thermocouple temps. Your
circuitry is likely to suffer additional inaccuracies as the ambient
temperature changes. All of my aux inputs (non thermocouple) on the EIS
had to be tweaked from the recommended parameters when I calibrated the
sensors for the ranges of interest.
Ken
Bob Lee wrote:
>I have just finished rereading the Connection and it is amazing what you
>learn when you go through another cycle of education. Of particular
>interest to me this time through was a comment Bob made at the end of the
>Temperature Chapter regarding using a switch box and multiple home made
>thermocouples to measure critical temperatures during flyoff. There were
>several items that he suggested that I had not even considered. As an
>example: alternator stator temp, alternator regulator temp are two he
>suggested. I quickly extrapolated to all the things I would like to know
>like electronic ignition coil temp, and then there is the in and out oil
>temp and air temp to evaluate my oil cooler installation. Next I thought of
>the intercooler in and out charge and cooling air temps. The list for my
>turbocharged engine quickly rose to thirty some odd items to evaluate
>temperature on during the test flight phase. I did some research in the
>AeroElectircic archives and found a few suggestions for PC data collection
>interfaces but when I looked at the cost per port my data collection system
>was easily over a thousand dollars with an assembeled price point of
>$30/port.
>
>So now my design problem became how do I reduce the price per port for a 30
>port temperature data collection device? I refined what I wanted to know to
>be three phases of temperature: OK (green), Marginal (yellow), and BAD
>(red). So now I'm thinking graph segment LEDs and a home made thermocouple
>driver. I plan to use one AD595 in therometer mode as the 0degC reference
>point and multiple LM324 quad-op-amps to resolve the thermocouple input with
>the appropriate gain to yield 10mv/degC. Then use additional op-amps to
>detect and drive the green, yellow and red temperatures for the particular
>port.
>
>Right now I'm thinking that this will be a perminent part of the aircraft to
>watch out for temperature performance degraditon and warn me what to look
>into with more detailed instrumentation in the future. If a particular
>chanel shows a problem I can attach that thermocouple to my EIS system and
>collect real time temperatures about that item of interest until things are
>resolved. After the problem is solved the chanel goes back to the green,
>yellow, red annunciator to insure proper long term performance.
>
>I have built a schematic using ExpressPCB software planning to have them
>make the prototype PCBs for this project. I have attached a jpg diagram of
>the schematic for peer review. The price per port comes out to under
>$5/port with this system for thirty or more ports.
>
>Before I put this idea into hardware does anyone see anthing wrong with the
>logic?
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob Lee
>N52BL KR2
>Suwanee, GA
>91% done only 65% to go!
>
>PS I know I left the capacitors off the voltage regulator!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Measurement Idea |
Ken Lehman wrote:
"Why monitor something unless you know what the temperature should be?"
Ken,
I think that the major issue with component failures in homebuilt aircraft
is the impact of installation on actual temperatures seen by various
components. As an example, I know that the coil temperature of my
electronic ignition should not exceed 190F from manufacture recomendation.
Why should I wait till I have an ignition failure to work on the cooling?
Doesn't it make more sence to look at the temperature and take action before
a failure occurs? At $5/port to keep an eye on the electronic igniton it is
cheap insurance against a $200 bill for replacing a cooked ignition. If the
cooling hose were to come off the overtemp indication could clue me to
change to the backup ignition and save the primary ignition for a simple
hose replacement rather than an expensive ignition replacement. Most of the
people that use their experimental aircraft have several teething problems
in the beginning. I happen to agree with 'lectric Bob that measuring your
temperatures during the flyoff period is better than letting failures lead
your actions.
But then again, everything I say might be wrong?
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA
91% done only 65% to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measurement Idea (stick on ?) |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Bob
What about using stick on temperature indicators? Turn black to show max
temp achieved.
If something is getting too hot, put on a new strip or set of dots after
cooling mod.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Measurement Idea (stick on ?) |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
> What about using stick on temperature indicators? Turn black to show max
> temp achieved.
>
> If something is getting too hot, put on a new strip or set of dots after
> cooling mod.
Too bad thermal IR equipment costs an arm-and-a-leg. Mount
the camera under the cowl and do a full temperature survey. I
found a couple of sites that had hacked cheap cameras with IR
filters but the results were less than spectacular....interesting,
nonetheless.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The po' boy's data acquisition system. |
>I have just finished rereading the Connection and it is amazing what you
>learn when you go through another cycle of education. Of particular
>interest to me this time through was a comment Bob made at the end of the
>Temperature Chapter regarding using a switch box and multiple home made
>thermocouples to measure critical temperatures during flyoff. There were
>several items that he suggested that I had not even considered. As an
>example: alternator stator temp, alternator regulator temp are two he
>suggested. I quickly extrapolated to all the things I would like to know
>like electronic ignition coil temp, and then there is the in and out oil
>temp and air temp to evaluate my oil cooler installation. Next I thought of
>the intercooler in and out charge and cooling air temps. The list for my
>turbocharged engine quickly rose to thirty some odd items to evaluate
>temperature on during the test flight phase. I did some research in the
>AeroElectircic archives and found a few suggestions for PC data collection
>interfaces but when I looked at the cost per port my data collection system
>was easily over a thousand dollars with an assembeled price point of
>$30/port.
>
>So now my design problem became how do I reduce the price per port for a 30
>port temperature data collection device? I refined what I wanted to know to
>be three phases of temperature:
First, you're to be commended for having the curiosity to go find
things out and convert them to numbers for the benefit of yourself
and others with whom you share the data.
The box of "tinker-toys" is huge and the tradeoffs options not much
smaller. From my own perspective, the commodity that drives most of
my decisions is time-to-first data. I DO fabricate a lot of specialized
fixtures and circuits. However if I can buy some pre-fabricated
modules and perhaps supplement them with fabricated interfaces, some
combination of these represents the most economical approach.
First, allow me to suggest that while your three-light approach is
certainly better than nothing, it's like working in a base ten
world where only the digits 0, 3 and 7 are permitted. Further, it
presupposes that you have a good idea of where the switch points
for each of the lights should be placed.
If I were doing this for RAC and needed to be up and running
in a few days, I'd consider getting 1 to 4 a/d modules from
http://www.weedtech.com/
Check out the 8 channel, 12-bit analog input module with 4.095
volts full scale input with 1 mv resolution. This critter
is $69 for a $8.50/channel cost. Team these modules with a
thermocouple to analog conditioner board using AD597ARZ chips.
The artwork for a mating board is at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ECB_Artwork/9804_320-1A_KTC_Board
This board is designed to "piggyback" onto a Weeder analog board
using the same hole pattern as the Weeder's d-sub mounting screws.
So, for about $130 in materials, one can have an 8-channel, thermocouple
interface module that is easy to talk to with a laptop temperature
recording utility. You can calibrate your installation to plus/minus
1 degree C or so. With just one module and as many TC harnesses as
you wish, you can change from one group of 8 temperatures for one
phase of the testing to another group of 8 just by unplugging and
re-plugging the appropriate harness.
The TC chip module teamed with the Weeder board and a cheap
PC now joins in your arsenal of investigative tools with a
capability of recording and sharing real numbers. I use out-
of-date lap tops running Power Basic under DOS 6.22. The last one
I bought cost me about $100 off ebay.
I've not proofed the ECB yet . . . but if you're interested,
I'll order some and get one stuffed up. I've been intending
to add this board to my own toolbox for some time to replace
a couple of older, hand-wired TC signal conditioners I've been
using over the years. You can see one of my last projects at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Data_Acquisition
The forth picture in the series shows the hand-wired thermocouple
conditioners that I want to replace with the surface-mount,
ECB assembly.
This is perhaps a bit more expensive than your proposal
. . . but $time$ to first-data will be shorter.
Better yet, the data will be RECORDED for later analysis
and sharing. Further, the Weeder a/d board channels can be
pressed into service for measuring and recording lots of other
interesting numbers about how your airplane operates. Even
if you need to go find a laptop, you should be able to assemble
this suite of test equipment for under $300.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHAD FELDPOUCH <1pouch(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
Does anyone know of a website where you can download more Garmin install manuals
on pdf like the one that was on here a couple days ago for the GTX 327 ? I
am in need of install manuals for the Garmin 530 , 430 , GMA 340 and the GTX
330 on pdf .
Thanks,
Chad Feldpouch...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
How about www.garmin.com?
john
CHAD FELDPOUCH wrote:
> Does anyone know of a website where you can download more Garmin install
> manuals on pdf like the one that was on here a couple days ago for the
> GTX 327 ? I am in need of install manuals for the Garmin 530 , 430 ,
> GMA 340 and the GTX 330 on pdf .
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Feldpouch...
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
Dan Checkoway's RV-7 Project is a good place to look:
http://www.rvproject.com/garmin/
john
CHAD FELDPOUCH wrote:
> Does anyone know of a website where you can download more Garmin install
> manuals on pdf like the one that was on here a couple days ago for the
> GTX 327 ? I am in need of install manuals for the Garmin 530 , 430 ,
> GMA 340 and the GTX 330 on pdf .
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Feldpouch...
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jlundberg(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ICOM A-200 Install |
If I install an ICOM A-200 in my Aeronca Champ can I legally have an A&P sign off
the installation??
I am not an A&P but have done many radios installations in experimentals.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
Try this:
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
On 11/12/06, CHAD FELDPOUCH <1pouch(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know of a website where you can download more Garmin install
> manuals on pdf like the one that was on here a couple days ago for the GTX
> 327 ? I am in need of install manuals for the Garmin 530 , 430 , GMA 340
> and the GTX 330 on pdf .
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Feldpouch...
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | WLAS [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
>
>
> Try this:
>
> http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
>
Or that :
http://contrails.free.fr/gps_manuels.php
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave <dave(at)abrahamson.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin manuals on PDF file |
This site is generally helpful
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm.
GMA340 is at
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
GNS430 http://www.garmin.com/manuals/143_InstallationManual.pdf
GTX330 http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_InstallationManual.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Collin Campbell" <collinc(at)alltel.net> |
I am still trying to solve the problem with my alternator. I have read
the troubleshooting suggestions in Appendix Z (note 8). I made up the
test cable to the alternator field as suggested and tested in flight.
As I mentioned earlier, the problem is intermittent, the volts usually
go away once or twice in an hour or so of flying. The test shows some
healthy voltage (12+) on the field when the output is 0. According to
the appendix, this suggests the alternator has failed.
But the intermittent thing is driving my nuts. Why does it work most of
the time? It begins to work immediately when I recycle the field
breaker. My voltage regulator has ground fault protection, could it be
that I have a nuisance problem that is tripping it? I have checked and
rechecked all wiring connections and they seem fine. Some have
suggested that I may have a "flying short" in the alternator itself.
This would explain the intermittent thing.
Just needed some advice before I resort to tearing into and replacing
things.
Collin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternator woes
I am still trying to solve the problem with my alternator. I have read
the troubleshooting suggestions in Appendix Z (note 8). I made up the
test cable to the alternator field as suggested and tested in flight. As I
mentioned earlier, the problem is intermittent, the volts usually go away
once or twice in an hour or so of flying. The test shows some healthy
voltage (12+) on the field when the output is 0. According to the
appendix, this suggests the alternator has failed.
More than a suggestion, it's an accusing finger.
There is no way a functioning alternator can be
at zero output while the field voltage is so
high.
But the intermittent thing is driving my nuts. Why does it work most of
the time? It begins to work immediately when I recycle the field
breaker. My voltage regulator has ground fault protection, could it be
that I have a nuisance problem that is tripping it? I have checked and
rechecked all wiring connections and they seem fine. Some have suggested
that I may have a "flying short" in the alternator itself. This would
explain the intermittent thing.
It's probably slip ring brushes. These can become
flakey for a variety of ills including loss of spring
tension, contamination causing hang-ups in the holders,
worn out, etc.
It's a 99.9% bet that the problem is downstream of the
field terminal on the back of the alternator . . . and
all the likely suspects reside inside the alternator.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
Let me jump in here and address a quick aside to Bob: my replacement
Hyundai 95 amp alternator appears to have solved the car's electrical
issues completely. At 500 bucks for the job, including core charge of
$75, I should hope it would! (Leaves me wondering what hardware on
that little Sonata requires a 95 amp current budget!) So, I have the
failed alternator core if you are interested in putting it on your
test stand. Please advise.
Thanks,
Bill B
On 11/13/06, Collin Campbell wrote:
>
>
> I am still trying to solve the problem with my alternator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>I would like to use a transistor to convert a normally open switch to
>normally closed. I need to switch a circut ground off. This would be very
>simple with a relay, but, I would like to use a transistor if this can be
>done. Is this a reasonable approach? If yes can you draw me a diagrtam?
>Thanks.
Can you sketch the surrounding circuitry? Do you have access to
both ends of "the switch" or is one end already connected to
ground . . . or perhaps 12v? What do you what the output to control?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding lugs (belated response) |
>Ok, got the transponder info, now...
>
>I am still wondering if I need to change out the 1/4" brass thru firewall
>studs put in by Lancair. I am using #2 welding cable for the
>batteries. If I've done the calculations correctly the diameter of AWG2
>is .27", just slightly more than 1/4". Would that .02 require going to
>5/16" studs?
.25 in threaded brass is pretty light mechanically. The minor diameter
of the threads is 0.2" Given our interest in gas-tight joints it's
nice to have enough strength to put some pressure on the terminals
when torqued to near max value for the fastener.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Joining copper wire to aluminum tube |
I'm attempting to use my pitot tube for an antennae as described here:
http://contrails.free.fr/instruments_ant_sonex.php
I'm looking for a way to reliably attach a BNC connector to the 3/16"
aluminum tube with a short jumper wire. It's to small to rivet, and I
can't crush it as it still has to operate as a pitot tube. The only
viable alternative I've identified to date is aluminum brazing rod.
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Joining copper wire to aluminum tube |
You might try the flux paste for aluminum made by Solder-It company.
I've torch-soldered to aluminum wwith fair success using this. Once
the flux/solder paste adheres to the aluminum, you can pretty much
join any other solderable metal to it at that one spot.
I bought mine online from the company, but I've since seen it at
Lowe's. Can't recall if Lowe's had only the silver solder paste,
which won;t help you, or the aluminum paste, which is what you need.
-Bill B
On 11/13/06, Ernest Christley wrote:
>
> I'm attempting to use my pitot tube for an antennae as described here:
>
> http://contrails.free.fr/instruments_ant_sonex.php
>
> I'm looking for a way to reliably attach a BNC connector to the 3/16"
> aluminum tube with a short jumper wire. It's to small to rivet, and I
> can't crush it as it still has to operate as a pitot tube. The only
> viable alternative I've identified to date is aluminum brazing rod.
>
> --
> ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
> ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
> o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Vs" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
The circuit is just a ground to tell my TCAD that it is on the ground. A
pressure switch ( I can only find NO in the range I need) is in the pitot
system. The switch closes at roughly 50 knots. I have access to both ends
of the switch. The switch is a micro pneumatic logic 503. Maybe you know a
supplier that would sell me one that is NC.The closing of the switch is
supposed to open the ground on the TCAD. I can easily convert the no to nc
by using a relay, but, I thought a transistor may also work?? Just making
an attempt to learn more electric stuff. I hope that this explanation
works.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:40 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Transistorture
>
>Bob,
>I would like to use a transistor to convert a normally open switch to
>normally closed. I need to switch a circut ground off. This would be very
>simple with a relay, but, I would like to use a transistor if this can be
>done. Is this a reasonable approach? If yes can you draw me a diagrtam?
>Thanks.
Can you sketch the surrounding circuitry? Do you have access to
both ends of "the switch" or is one end already connected to
ground . . . or perhaps 12v? What do you what the output to control?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining copper wire to aluminum tube |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Hello Ernest
A few ideas that fell out of my head:
Use a copper pitot tube if you can
www.McMaster.com sells conductive epoxy (ain't cheap)
Buy 1 foot of Erics Copper coated aluminium wire (get both sizes if strand
sizes are different) and sand off copper so you have an aluminium to
aluminium joint, the other end you can crimp or solder, see if you can
clamp with a few aluminium clamps like adel or make some, could also put 4
strands, with lets say 1 inch contact at 12,3,6 and 9 O-Clock and wrap
with Spectra fishing line, or Size E Dacron thread, or probably even
cotton sewing thread and put a drop of Model thin CA to hold in place.
Better? Do the 4 strands of Eric aluminium wire with 1.5" contact area.
Heat shrink a 1/4" band on each end and one in the middle to hold in
position for wrap. After wrap is complete heat shrink the whole thing
(adhesive lined for good seal) or paint with something as CA is not
waterproof.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McMahon" <blackoaks(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding lugs (belated response) |
Bob, I changed out the 1/4" brass studs for 5/16" brass as you suggest for
the positive and negative thru the firewall. Thanks for the answer.
On 11/13/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>
> >....wondering if I need to change out the 1/4" brass thru firewall
> >studs put in by Lancair. I am using #2 welding cable for the
> >batteries. If I've done the calculations correctly the diameter of AWG2
> >is .27", just slightly more than 1/4". Would that .02 require going to
> >5/16" studs?
>
>
> .25 in threaded brass is pretty light mechanically. The minor diameter
> of the threads is 0.2" Given our interest in gas-tight joints it's
> nice to have enough strength to put some pressure on the terminals
> when torqued to near max value for the fastener.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, N9637M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net> |
| Subject: | homebuilder's kit plane database |
I've made an Excel spreadsheet of kit aircraft data, and put it up on my web
site. I'm sure it still contains lots of errors and omissions, but I
thought I'd get it out to people while I continue to perfect it. Please let
me know of any errors or omissions, and I'll keep it updated on an ongoing
basis for the benefit of all homebuilders. Feel free to copy this link &
info to other homebuilders' lists.
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/misc.htm#directory
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
7:34 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Cox" <flyboyron(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 11/12/06 |
John,
If your A&P has the authority to do it himself, he can sign it off if you do
it. You'll just have to make sure he is satisfied with your plan and
execution before expecting him to sign it off. He will have to inspect the
work to make sure he'd be satisfied.
You don't need an A&P to DO anything on the airplane, only to sign it off as
airworthy.
Ron
> If I install an ICOM A-200 in my Aeronca Champ can I legally have an A&P
> sign off
> the installation??
> I am not an A&P but have done many radios installations in experimentals.
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Collin Campbell" <collinc(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
Thanks for the input. New alternator is on the way.
Collin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: alternator woes
>
>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: alternator woes
>
>
> I am still trying to solve the problem with my alternator. I have read
> the troubleshooting suggestions in Appendix Z (note 8). I made up the
> test cable to the alternator field as suggested and tested in flight. As
> I mentioned earlier, the problem is intermittent, the volts usually go
> away once or twice in an hour or so of flying. The test shows some
> healthy voltage (12+) on the field when the output is 0. According to the
> appendix, this suggests the alternator has failed.
>
> More than a suggestion, it's an accusing finger.
> There is no way a functioning alternator can be
> at zero output while the field voltage is so
> high.
>
> But the intermittent thing is driving my nuts. Why does it work most of
> the time? It begins to work immediately when I recycle the field breaker.
> My voltage regulator has ground fault protection, could it be that I have
> a nuisance problem that is tripping it? I have checked and rechecked all
> wiring connections and they seem fine. Some have suggested that I may
> have a "flying short" in the alternator itself. This would explain the
> intermittent thing.
>
> It's probably slip ring brushes. These can become
> flakey for a variety of ills including loss of spring
> tension, contamination causing hang-ups in the holders,
> worn out, etc.
>
> It's a 99.9% bet that the problem is downstream of the
> field terminal on the back of the alternator . . . and
> all the likely suspects reside inside the alternator.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
>
>Let me jump in here and address a quick aside to Bob: my replacement
>Hyundai 95 amp alternator appears to have solved the car's electrical
>issues completely. At 500 bucks for the job, including core charge of
>$75, I should hope it would! (Leaves me wondering what hardware on
>that little Sonata requires a 95 amp current budget!) So, I have the
>failed alternator core if you are interested in putting it on your
>test stand. Please advise.
Hmmm . . . okay. That's a bit more than I hand hopped. Go ahead
and turn it in for the core credit. I've got about $700 worth
of materials to buy to get the alternator stand running and
there's no dearth of alternators already here to run on it!
Thanks for considering me.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
Any thoughts about putting a 1/4" ring terminal (for 8 awg wire) onto a #10 (approx
3/16" dia.) stud on the fuse box? Is that a no-no?
Thanks!
--------
RV-7A
N777TY (res)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=74425#74425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
Will do. Thanks for your help with the problem.
Any thoughts on what a compact car needs with 95 amps?!
-Bill
On 11/13/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Let me jump in here and address a quick aside to Bob: my replacement
> >Hyundai 95 amp alternator appears to have solved the car's electrical
> >issues completely. At 500 bucks for the job, including core charge of
> >$75, I should hope it would! (Leaves me wondering what hardware on
> >that little Sonata requires a 95 amp current budget!) So, I have the
> >failed alternator core if you are interested in putting it on your
> >test stand. Please advise.
>
> Hmmm . . . okay. That's a bit more than I hand hopped. Go ahead
> and turn it in for the core credit. I've got about $700 worth
> of materials to buy to get the alternator stand running and
> there's no dearth of alternators already here to run on it!
>
> Thanks for considering me.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Temperature units puzzle |
Hi Bob and all,
As a European I'm accustomed to see US citizens use Fahrenheit for CHT,
oil temp etc.
But in an original P51 manual, I'm puzzled to find temps in Celsius.
How come the Celsius were fashionable in the '40s when only Anglo-Saxons
were flying US airplanes, and now they have reverted to Fahrenheit ?
Thanks,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics Problem |
> 11/12/2006
>
> Hello Fellow Listers, Can any of you please offer help to Joe Cardinale?
> See his problem below. Many Thanks.
>
> OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Josephcardinale2(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:48 PM
> Subject: Avionics Problem
>
>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I've got a problem that I hope maybe one of you guys can help me
>> with.
>>
>> As you know from the list, I bought Jim Lagowski's TR1. Jim kind of
>> put all his eggs in one basket when it came to his choice of avionics.
>> He used
>> a combination NAV/COM/GLIDESLOPE/LOCALIZER and INTERCOM. The name of the
>> unit is ICS Plus. It was sold thru Wag Aero and others. The unit quit
>> on me a
>> while ago and I've been trying to find a shop that can repair it. I sent
>> it
>> back to the outlet Jim bought it from(Sky Sport in Linden, Michigan). Sky
>> Sport said they could not repair it and the manufacturer is now out of
>> business. They did determine that the problem was in the power supply.
>> I guess
>> what I am asking is would any of you guys know a shop willing to repair
>> the
>> unit? Not knowing much about radio's I don't even know what the power
>> supply is.
>> I realize it is not going to be cheap but it won't be cheap to replace
>> it
>> either.
>>
>> I'm sure a lot of you will feel that I probably would be wise to bite
>> the bullet now and replace it, but I really don't feel like doing that
>> right
>> now because I feel it would be kind of messy. Any help would sure be
>> appreciated. Thanks
>>
>> Joe Cardinale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DBerelsman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature (metric) units puzzle |
Great question Giles...
Here is another nail in the coffin of the folks who moan "I love American
non-standard measurement".
Last summer I was repairing my fathers 1951 John Deere B farm tractor.
What's more American than John Deere ?.
The tattered owners manual calls for 18mm Champion spark plugs.
What happened to our good sense ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature (metric) units puzzle |
The answer to this one is pretty simple. Bosch was the first maker of spark
plugs and set the standard. you could probably go back to a 1921 owner's
manual and find the same reference. So far as I know, spark plugs are all
metric thread and always have been.
Rick
On 11/14/06, DBerelsman(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Great question Giles...
>
> Here is another nail in the coffin of the folks who moan "I love American
> non-standard measurement".
>
> Last summer I was repairing my fathers 1951 John Deere B farm tractor.
> What's more American than John Deere ?.
>
> The tattered owners manual calls for *18mm Champion spark plugs*.
>
> What happened to our good sense ?
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OldBob Siegfried <oldbob(at)BeechOwners.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature (metric) units puzzle |
Good Morning Richard,
How very true, but, fortunately, the ones we have been
using for aviation here in our crazy mixed up country
have had a hex drive portion that was made to fit our
good old fashioned foot/inch measurement system.
I'd say odds are that old John Deere/Champion plug
used a non metric wrench to aid it's extraction.
Have you ever noted that aircraft mechanics world wide
seem to have standardized on our system as well?
Will wonders never cease?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
--- Richard Girard wrote:
> The answer to this one is pretty simple. Bosch was
> the first maker of spark
> plugs and set the standard. you could probably go
> back to a 1921 owner's
> manual and find the same reference. So far as I
> know, spark plugs are all
> metric thread and always have been.
>
> Rick
>
> On 11/14/06, DBerelsman(at)aol.com
> wrote:
> >
> > Great question Giles...
> >
> > Here is another nail in the coffin of the folks
> who moan "I love American
> > non-standard measurement".
> >
> > Last summer I was repairing my fathers 1951 John
> Deere B farm tractor.
> > What's more American than John Deere ?.
> >
> > The tattered owners manual calls for *18mm
> Champion spark plugs*.
> >
> > What happened to our good sense ?
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Girard
> "Ya'll drop on in"
> takes on a whole new meaning
> when you live at the airport.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator woes |
>
>Will do. Thanks for your help with the problem.
>
>Any thoughts on what a compact car needs with 95 amps?!
No. You'd have to do a load analysis to see how
often and under what conditions that the alternator
gets loaded. It would be interesting to have a
real loadmeter on the alternator to simply observe
it's daily duties.
My last two vans had 90+ amp machines on them but
both had rear a/c and heater blowers. But those blowers
seldom run more than 12 amps or so, so that leaves
a whole lot of juice to run everything else.
It might be something so simple as the "Cessna philosophy"
on equipment sizing. At some point in time, all the SE
aircraft from 150 to 210 got the same 60A, 28v alternator.
There were only two battery sizes offered. This singular
focus on a smaller selection of parts reduced inventory
at the warehouse, factory and dealerships.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ring terminal |
>
>Any thoughts about putting a 1/4" ring terminal (for 8 awg wire) onto a
>#10 (approx 3/16" dia.) stud on the fuse box? Is that a no-no?
>
>Thanks!
Obviously, a 'connection' will be made and the terminal
is not at-risk for falling off. But keep in mind that
terminal application is tailored around the idea of
achieving gas-tight connections in the mating parts.
Gas-tight connections require optimized force being
exerted over a terminal area. The peak forces within
a bolted stack up of terminals happens right around the
stud . . . if the hole in the terminal is oversized, then
October 26, 2006 - November 14, 2006
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-gh