AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-gp

January 29, 2007 - February 02, 2007



         operation.
      
      >  When I cut into the wire I find a red, green, white and black wire. The 
      > red and green show continuity when the button is pushed.
      
         Then use these two wires.
      
      >  The white and black also are a closed circuit. I really don't want to 
      > screw things up, can anybody enlighten me as to the best way to hook this up.
      
         Didn't your stick grip come with a schematic? If not,
         contact the suppler and suggest that his product is
         NOT ready for prime-time until it's shipped with
         lucid, tell-all instructions.
      
         Bob . . .
      
              ----------------------------------------
              ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )
              ( what ever you do must be exercised   )
              ( EVERY day . . .                      )
              (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )
              ----------------------------------------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator mistake
If the OV shutdown is simply a crowbar on the IGN terminal that pretty much means that I would not trust it either. Better than nothing maybe but... Can you confirm where that wire goes Frank? Ken Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >Hello Bob, > >I installed the smaller 60Amp unit than the one shown in the link you >provided, Not sure what form factor it is but it is considerably smaller >than the 70A unit shown (which incidently looks identical to the ND >Toyota Camry unit I replaced). The reason I fitted this one was that was >all that Van's had in stock and should be big enough even with the dual >electric fuel pump/IFR installation in my airplane. > >I do note the voltage regulator is set a little low at around 13.7V. > >The crowbar unit on the back appears to just have small single wire that >presumably just collapses the field current. To be honest I was little >reluctant to rely on this device so I wired it in series with my >existing OV protection the basis of which is one of Eric's big >contactors. > >Can you turn the unit off?...Hmm, well the instructions do not >specifically mention this. They do say you can turn the unit ON by >energising the filed but I did not see that you could turn it >off...Personally I would not try to do this unless it was an emergency. > >I'll have a look in the hangar for the instructions, I do know they were >pretty sparse electriclly speaking. > >Incidently different topic, the backup SD-8 alternator cranks out quite >a bit more than 8amps...I can reliably run almost evrything in the >airplane...i.e one FI electric fuel pump, GNS430 and an audio >panel...The battery volts will dip below 12v on a transmit but apart >from that it is enough to drive home if don't use any lights. I would >say the unit makes nearer 12A. > >Frank > > > Incidentally Frank, which model of PP alternator did you > install? Would you be willing to copy/scan the installation > data that comes with it and send it to me? I note that > some models on their website speaks of ov votlage protection > and they've even used the (ugh!) word "crowabar" in the > context of speaking about ov protection. The photo at > >http://www.plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf > > shows what appears to be an add-on to the back of their > product for the purpose of providing OV protection. > I'm curious as to whether or not you can turn the alternator > OFF by way of the "field switch" after it has once been > turned ON. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Alternator mistake
> > > >Hello Bob, > >I installed the smaller 60Amp unit than the one shown in the link you >provided, Not sure what form factor it is but it is considerably smaller >than the 70A unit shown (which incidently looks identical to the ND >Toyota Camry unit I replaced). The reason I fitted this one was that was >all that Van's had in stock and should be big enough even with the dual >electric fuel pump/IFR installation in my airplane. > >I do note the voltage regulator is set a little low at around 13.7V. That's disappointing. 13.7 will EVENTUALLY replenish the charge in a SVLA battery but the recharge time to 99% of capacity can be 3-10x longer than at 14.2 or even 14.6 volts. Their website is remarkably silent on the topic of voltage setpoints for both OBAM aviation and TC aviation products. Nonetheless, if they've been granted permission to install on TC aircraft, they're no doubt in possession of data which describes the voltage regulation characteristics of their PMA products . . . I would expect the OBAM aviation products to be identical. Drop them a note and ask. You're a $paying$ customer. It's not an unreasonable question. >The crowbar unit on the back appears to just have small single wire that >presumably just collapses the field current. To be honest I was little >reluctant to rely on this device so I wired it in series with my >existing OV protection the basis of which is one of Eric's big >contactors. > >Can you turn the unit off?...Hmm, well the instructions do not >specifically mention this. They do say you can turn the unit ON by >energising the filed but I did not see that you could turn it >off...Personally I would not try to do this unless it was an emergency. Unless there's a b-lead disconnection device like that shown in Figure Z-24 and Z-24a, there is no risk to the alternator to attempt a shutdown via the "ALT FIELD" switch. If this switch functions as we've come to expect from traditional installations, the alternator will simply stop producing power and resume when it's closed. This test can be accomplished at low rpm, everything turned off and by watching the voltmeter to wiggle when the switch is operated. >I'll have a look in the hangar for the instructions, I do know they were >pretty sparse electriclly speaking. Thank you for sharing this information. I've written Steve Klodd, head chef at Plane Power to inquire about the functionality of product features cited on his website. We shall see . . . >Incidently different topic, the backup SD-8 alternator cranks out quite >a bit more than 8amps...I can reliably run almost evrything in the >airplane...i.e one FI electric fuel pump, GNS430 and an audio >panel...The battery volts will dip below 12v on a transmit but apart >from that it is enough to drive home if don't use any lights. I would >say the unit makes nearer 12A. Also interesting. I've often thought that the capabilities of the SD-8 would drift upward with time. The availability of high-performance magnets continues to improve and I've always thought that the magnet assemblies shipped to B&C might just become better with technological age. You may well be experiencing this phenomenon. I'll ask Tim about it the next time we talk. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leading edge ideas and inventions
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
IP rights do more than protect a company's product, it also protects the company itself. For every ten scientists that stand up and review a product saying it is safe, any ambulance chaser can find another 10 that will say it will kill you just being in the same room. I'm not a scientist, lawyer, and I certainly didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor am I criticizing Bob so let's not go there. I just want to make sure people don't look down on a company if they don't want to put their IP under outside scrutiny. If someone is concerned about going with a IVR, use an EVR. PlanePower sells both with the option of having a PMA'd alternator. My point is, make sure you have a full discussion with the vendor on their product and capabilities. Don't just take the word of an Internet mailing list. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Leading edge ideas and inventions >Thanks for the comprehensive replies, Bob---it was certainly helpful to >understand your well thought out position. You are well aware, I am sure >though, that not all Aeroelectric website "clients" are as intensively >fascinated by the details of aircraft electrical system design down at the >molecular level that some others are. Like others here, I'm just a pilot >and flying airplanes, not designing them, is the part that interests >me. I know a lot about flying but not so much about "aviation" and hardly >anything at all about electrical system design except that I need one. I'll be the first to admit that the AeroElectric-List is not everyone's ideal information source. It was intended from the first to be leading edge for new ideas and inventions . . . and to stand up and denounce bad science along with an explanation as to why. There are plenty of unfiltered venues that dispense traditional data not the least of which are most of the books offered by EAA bookstores and elsewhere. Nothing wrong with those efforts. They've helped the vast majority of builders get their project airborne. > >Those who fit that description may not be interested in the details but >still want to make a sound decision about a mature, reliable electrical >system for their airplanes in order to best take advantage of the growing >technical advances in avionics and navigation equipment available >today. Many are anxiously awaiting your "fix" for IR alternators but >there are others who probably think they've already found one in Plane Power. Nobody would be happier than I to see someone offering modern alternators that work within the design goals I've established for myself. There is nothing better for the community at large than to have honorable, capable competition. >That seems to be the big unanswered question. Has Plane Power put the >genie back in the bottle or not?? They say they have---has anyone seen or >produced independant verification of their assertions? If so, I suspect a >small stampede will have just begun--- I'll contact Plane Power and see if they'll share any of the details necessary for a critical design review. Most companies are reluctant because they fear some risks to loss of proprietary information. A silly notion when you get right down to it. I have reverse engineered dozens of products but not for the purpose of cloning their work . . . the goal was to do BETTER. I've never dissected a product that I and my compatriots could not improve upon. Further, for all I know, folks who are my most vociferous detractors may have already poisoned the waters at Plane Power. I think that happened at Niagara Airparts . . . never could get those folks to discuss their products. This is also silly. I have a substantial following and it only makes sense that we should be cooperating in a win-win effort. So, my personal approach is to see how products perform in the field. If it makes sense, I'll craft an offering with a goal my competition feel compelled to emulate me instead of the other way around. Therefore, I'd be pleased if anyone can post first-hand experiences of Plane Power's products and customer service right here on the List. >Warm regards and again, thanks for all your hard work in this arena... Couldn't do it if it wasn't MOSTLY fun! Thank you for the kind words. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator mistake
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Hard to tell Ken but it is a very small wire that appears to go to the center of the machine so my assumption is that it goes directly to one of the slip ring brushes, the other end is bolted presumably to a contact that goes to the opposite brush or maybe the case...I'm thinking it shorts out (or grounds) the field coil. I'm definatly not an electrical expert so I may well be a little off here. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:41 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator mistake If the OV shutdown is simply a crowbar on the IGN terminal that pretty much means that I would not trust it either. Better than nothing maybe but... Can you confirm where that wire goes Frank? Ken Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Subject: 8awg line to forrest of tabs
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Yes to both questions. Steel tube and rag. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 7:25 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 8awg line to forrest of tabs > > >Bob > >My aircraft has a tandem seating configuration. I want to have the forrest >of tabs toward the back of the aircraft, the location of all the electric >stuff. I would rather run the #2 from the battery to the firewall pass >through bolt with out breaking the line to attach to the forrest of tab >bolt. Can I run a #8 from the negative post of the battery directly to the >forrest of tabs and run the #2 to the firewall without a break in the >line? Also what options are there to attach the #8 to the same lug as the #2? > >Thanks >Jonsey I'm having trouble visualizing your description. What kind of airplane are we talking about? Do I understand that you want separate locations for the firewall pass-thru bolt and the forest-of-tabs? Hmmmm . . . I think I'm getting it. Is this a metal airplane with a rear mounted battery, midships ground block and a ground stud on the firewall? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow measurement
Date: Jan 29, 2007
I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the return flow. The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow input. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator mistake
You are arousing my curiousity for sure though. If it bypasses the silicon and crowbars directly to the field windings, that would make it a totally acceptable one time OV protection in my mind. I think that would be as good or better than I have with Z-24 if it limits alternator damage to the voltage regulator. More money than my locally obtained alternator but easier to install. One nice thing about Z-24 is that I can test the OV function with the engine off without damaging anything. I am looking forward to Bob's AEC9004 for a universal solution though. If he can demonstrate stalling alternators without damaging them that would be marvelous. Ken Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >Hard to tell Ken but it is a very small wire that appears to go to the >center of the machine so my assumption is that it goes directly to one >of the slip ring brushes, the other end is bolted presumably to a >contact that goes to the opposite brush or maybe the case...I'm thinking >it shorts out (or grounds) the field coil. > >I'm definatly not an electrical expert so I may well be a little off >here. > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:41 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator mistake > > >If the OV shutdown is simply a crowbar on the IGN terminal that pretty >much means that I would not trust it either. Better than nothing maybe >but... Can you confirm where that wire goes Frank? >Ken > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Scuse me - bare Nuckolls
Date: Jan 29, 2007
"From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sonoma CA seminar date is set . . Dr. Dee and I will be visiting the NoCal wine country on April 21/22 to deliver a presentation in the facilities of EAA chapter 1268. Sign-up sheet is posted at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Sonoma.html" This is for those who might think of attending........ I was responsible for suggesting Bob's presentation to our Chapter (60 members, half active) - 'way up here in Canada - almost two years ago. The reaction ran to "there aren't enough of us". "it costs too much" (US$), "there's no room", etc etc. Well, we had Bob's largest audience to date, people from Tennessee, New York and Montreal if I remember correctly. that two days was the best weekend most of our gang spent by popular reaction. Not a whimper I know of - and we asked... The series is informative, factual, accurate and informal so that if you have a specific problem, it'll probably be sorted out before you can ask This is an unsolicitted email - I gain nothing by it - I've already learned more than I thought - and it was worth it (even if it was bigger $). Go. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Fuel Flow measurement
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Eric, Does your fuel system have a return line from the distribution spider back to the tank? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow measurement I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the return flow. The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow input. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Flow measurement
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
YES! Go to the Matronics website, there you will find a device that does exactly that. The output from this device can be read by any counter as if it were a single flow meter, Dynon for example will read this net fuel flow directly. Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow measurement --> I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the return flow. The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow input. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Leading edge ideas and inventions
> > > IP rights do more than protect a company's product, it also protects >the company itself. For every ten scientists that stand up and review a >product saying it is safe, any ambulance chaser can find another 10 that >will say it will kill you just being in the same room. > > I'm not a scientist, lawyer, and I certainly didn't sleep at a Holiday >Inn Express last night, nor am I criticizing Bob so let's not go there. >I just want to make sure people don't look down on a company if they >don't want to put their IP under outside scrutiny. If someone is >concerned about going with a IVR, use an EVR. PlanePower sells both >with the option of having a PMA'd alternator. My point is, make sure >you have a full discussion with the vendor on their product and >capabilities. Don't just take the word of an Internet mailing list. Absolutely! But there is NO excuse whatsoever to withhold any system integration, performance, limits or operational data on any product. I'm always amazed at how little information that suppliers of products are able to supply in response to perfectly reasonable questions. I suspect most data is not forthcoming due to ignorance on the part of the person(s) tasked with customer service. The intellectual property issues are certainly valid concerns . . . for original work. But most companies are basically lazy: "Let's throw the proprietary information stamp on everything." This nicely relieves anyone of responsibility (and indirectly liability) for having to make a personal decision. The end result from this policy-n-procedures cloaking of all data under black blankets is that customer service folks are handcuffed. Customers are deprived of information they need to make a considered buying decision and to use the product after purchase. Once you sell a product, virtually everything to be known about it is now loose in the wild. It's only a matter of $time$ for anyone who wishes to dissect and discover its "secrets". Interestingly enough, of all the products I've dissected, I've discovered no novel techniques applied. Further, the techniques were so unimaginative or outdated that it was no big deal to craft newer and very aggressive competition for that product. I'm only suggesting that the $time$ most organizations spend to "protect" themselves is actually wasted effort and in many instances, counter-productive to their success in the marketplace. Even the much touted 'patent' is of suspect value. Once you HAVE a patent for which you've invested much $time$, you're obligated to protect it. So suppose GM decides to step on some little company with a whippy but patented idea. In our system where losers are not required to pay all litigation costs, what are the odds that Small Parts, Inc. will prevail against an onslaught from Big Parts, Inc? Remember the guy named Tucker? The most successful ventures have been those who took old, proven, public domain ideas and crafted them into a product with exemplary performance at a fair value backed by good customer service . . . like that guy named Van. In no way was I attempting to belittle the need for keeping truly original work as private as practical . . . but lazy organizations shoot themselves in both feet and between the eyes by failing to observe the prime directive of successful businesses: "Make sure that a customer who owns your product is looking forward to buying a replacement for that product from YOU after a long and pleasing experience. There is no better advertisement than having that customer showing the product to others and speaking favorably about it throughout its lifetime." Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator mistake
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Ya, for me I have come to regard the $400 alternator as almost sacrificial, as long as it does not fry my $6000 GNS 430!..>And especially as long as it doesn't do it when I need it in hard IMC. It seems alternators have very low failure rates generally (and I have an SD8 backup) then a resettable alternator is a pretty low priority for me...Would I fly 500 miles home on an SD8 backup in IFR? Probably not, but I might wait a day and do it VFR then send the alt away for repair upon my return home. My second error (apart from the grounding thing) was using a cheap rebuild for what has become a critical application (I'm doing my IFR training in the RV7a). The fact it took me about a day to fabricate all the brackets, source a suitable belt etc and $400 is looking pretty inexpensive...:) Anyway some rambling thoughts Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator mistake You are arousing my curiousity for sure though. If it bypasses the silicon and crowbars directly to the field windings, that would make it a totally acceptable one time OV protection in my mind. I think that would be as good or better than I have with Z-24 if it limits alternator damage to the voltage regulator. More money than my locally obtained alternator but easier to install. One nice thing about Z-24 is that I can test the OV function with the engine off without damaging anything. I am looking forward to Bob's AEC9004 for a universal solution though. If he can demonstrate stalling alternators without damaging them that would be marvelous. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow measurement
Eric, The E/1 has this function built into it. You can find out more about it at the BMA website, or give them a call, but you use the fuel flow inputs as A+B or A-B combinations. This is described on page 29 of the Installation Manual V2.16H http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download_efislite/efis_lite_install_guide_215.pdf Brett Quoting Eric Parlow : > > > I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. > > I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the > return flow. > The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. > > Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses > from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? > > i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). > > The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow > input. > > ERic-- > RV-10, N104EP > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Flow measurement
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Contact Gary Newstead, He has an Eggenfellner with a Blue Mountain, and he built a sensor for fuel flow for the BMA and is offering them for sale through Jan's site. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow measurement I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the return flow. The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow input. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow measurement
From: <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
Hello Eric "Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses?" May I suggest you read a thread on Europa Newsgroup about just this: http://www.europaowners.org/ Scroll to Matronics Listserver Have a look at: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Flow Instrumentation and: Europa-List: Fuel Flow Instrumentation and: Europa-List: Fuel flow for 914 Ron P. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow measurement
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Bruce, The current Lycoming IO-540-D4 mechanical fuel system does not have/require a fuel return. I'm building in the return capability for the future electric fuel system and/or the diesel engine. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow measurement Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:40:10 -0500 Eric, Does your fuel system have a return line from the distribution spider back to the tank? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow measurement I need to measure fuel consumption in a system with a fuel return. I have one Flo-scan 231 for supply flow and plan to add a second for the return flow. The Flo-scan 231 gives 20,000 pluses/gal. Is there an electronic device which can subtract the return fuel flow pluses from the supply pluses to give consumption pulses? i.e. 20 gal/hr flow gives 400,000 pulses/hr or 111 pluses/sec(hz). The measuring device is the BMA EFIS/one which has a 0-220hz fuel flow input. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Alternator mistake
> >My second error (apart from the grounding thing) was using a cheap >rebuild for what has become a critical application (I'm doing my IFR >training in the RV7a). The fact it took me about a day to fabricate all >the brackets, source a suitable belt etc and $400 is looking pretty >inexpensive...:) > >Anyway some rambling thoughts Not rambling thoughts but critical design review. I don't know how many builders have written or called about sources for materials to accomplish some portion of their project DIY. I always try to ask, "Are you doing this because you WANT to learn how it's done and enjoy doing it for the experience . . . or is it to save money." More often than not, the answer is, "to save money". I've come to realize that our rudimentary commodity of exchange is $time$ . . . and when one considers the total cost of acquisition and ownership in terms of total $time$, they quite often find that it would have been better to spend their $time$ acquiring cash at something they're good at than to spend more $time$ in an attempt to get something new done right the first time. >You are arousing my curiousity for sure though. If it bypasses the >silicon and crowbars directly to the field windings, that would make it >a totally acceptable one time OV protection in my mind. I think that >would be as good or better than I have with Z-24 if it limits >alternator damage to the voltage regulator. More money than my locally >obtained alternator but easier to install. One nice thing about Z-24 is >that I can test the OV function with the engine off without damaging >anything. You can test Z-24 with the engine running. Just run at ramp rpm and wait until the battery is recharged after cranking the engine. The magnitude of the load dump transient is a function of alternator output current and rpm at the time the b-lead opens. A lightly stressed alternator doesn't "bump" vigorously. Note on page 2 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/MC33092A.pdf . . . the regulator is spec'd to stand off a load dump transient of 40v for 125 mS. I think this is typical of the industry and mirrors DO-160 recommendations for 14v systems. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: 8awg line to forrest of tabs
> > >Yes to both questions. Steel tube and rag. Hmmmm . . . Okay. If it were my airplane I'd "float" the forest-of-tabs from the airframe at whatever location you choose to mount it. Bring 2AWG to the ground block from the battery. Bring a second 2AWG from ground block to a thru-bolt at the firewall where the crankcase jumper picks up a ground for the crankcase. This is to accommodate systems that might have grounded transducers at the crankcase but get their power grounds at the forest of tabs. Can you elaborate why you're not interested in putting the tabs on the firewall? I'm still thinking this is electrically better even if it means some ground wires are a bit longer. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gaye and Vaughn" <vaughnray(at)bvunet.net>
Subject: Leading edge ideas and inventions
Date: Jan 29, 2007
You said " There is no better advertisement than having that customer showing the product to others and speaking favorably about it throughout its lifetime." Bob . . ." All that I can say to that is "AMEN Brother". Unfortunately, so many companies are losing sight of that principle that reputation has become a bigger influance on my buying decisions than price. I have often not bought a product because I asked a question to which I knew the answer, but was given a line of obvious BS because the contact person didn't want to take the time to answer the question or did not know the answer and was too lazy to find out or didn't care to find out. How can you not want to find the answer? The downside of this curiosity can be a very long build time. This is where the shades of gray inter the picture. Sorry Bob, you poked a raw nerve of mine. Vaughn N914VA (60% to 80% completed, depending on the gathering of answers) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Subject: 8awg line to forest of tabs
Date: Jan 29, 2007
That basically is the reason why. I just didn't want to run a bunch of grounds from the back all the way to the front. Just trying different ideas. As usual you shed light on things with the transducer question. It is a simple system, so I would have to think about if it applies, good point non the less. Thanks again Jonsey -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 8awg line to forrest of tabs > > >Yes to both questions. Steel tube and rag. Hmmmm . . . Okay. If it were my airplane I'd "float" the forest-of-tabs from the airframe at whatever location you choose to mount it. Bring 2AWG to the ground block from the battery. Bring a second 2AWG from ground block to a thru-bolt at the firewall where the crankcase jumper picks up a ground for the crankcase. This is to accommodate systems that might have grounded transducers at the crankcase but get their power grounds at the forest of tabs. Can you elaborate why you're not interested in putting the tabs on the firewall? I'm still thinking this is electrically better even if it means some ground wires are a bit longer. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Bob wrote... Not rambling thoughts but critical design review. I don't know how many builders have written or called about sources for materials to accomplish some portion of their project DIY. I always try to ask, "Are you doing this because you WANT to learn how it's done and enjoy doing it for the experience . . . or is it to save money." More often than not, the answer is, "to save money". I've come to realize that our rudimentary commodity of exchange is $time$ . . . and when one considers the total cost of acquisition and ownership in terms of total $time$, they quite often find that it would have been better to spend their $time$ acquiring cash at something they're good at than to spend more $time$ in an attempt to get something new done right the first time. As usual, Bob has succinctly assessed the problem. If I looks at a project or item and decide that "I can't build it for that" then it seems far better to expend money than time--unless one undertakes it as an educational endeavor and not to save money. If we value our time very highly (which we must not or we wouldn't be building airplanes!), then with an embarrassingly high frequency, it truly is cheaper to buy it then build it. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Anus is as anus does
Date: Jan 29, 2007
"www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Jack_Tab_Soldering/Jack_Tab_Soldering.html Rod For the totally anal out there, the joint shown in that link would have failed the soldering class I took at Community College oh-so-many years ago." For those who are not so "anal", I find Bob's example satisfies the need very well. There are Community Colleges and Community Colleges, and failing soldering class is not a serious item unless the instructor is limited to marking solder joints. "1) joint can be inspected to verify that there is good wet out of the wire and the connector ------------see picture 2 2) the joint has the mechanical strength of the hook -----------see picture 2 3) the joint is easily disassembled later by reflowing the solder. -----------is this a safety criterion? I undid connections just like Bob's for the hundreds of WW II surplus aircraft radio bits that formed my first transmitter with a solder iron and snippers - and the point is...........? Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
>As usual, Bob has succinctly assessed the problem. If I looks at a >project or item and decide that "I can't build it for that" then it >seems far better to expend money than time--unless one undertakes it as >an educational endeavor and not to save money. If we value our time >very highly (which we must not or we wouldn't be building airplanes!), >then with an embarrassingly high frequency, it truly is cheaper to buy >it then build it. This is usually the case . . . unless you're already skilled at the building part. On the other side, real education is truly expensive in terms of $time$ expended . . . often with no demonstrable expectation for return on investment. I'd hate to see a real spreadsheet on the $time$ I've expended purely for the fun of finding out something new or to try my hand at some new skill. I've often admitted to being "afflicted" with that strange disease where my vocation is also my avocation. I do this stuff for the boss under conditions that are often frustrating and then come home to do it some more where it's got to be fun or I wouldn't do it. I'm crafting a white paper for the new managers of Hawker-Beech dealing with the need for REAL IR&D facilities. The business case goes to several management issues but the one I like the most is to suggest that we (the company) should support an IR&D activity with tools, materials, facility and mentorship but to be utilized on the employee's OWN time. Shucks, everybody would show up if they had a work order. I've suggested that such a facility would be a valuable human resources "filter" . . . I would guess that out of 900 or so engineers and perhaps 1,000 more technical staff, there are perhaps 50-100 folks who have "the disease". I'm telling them that it would be useful to KNOW who those folks are and what they're REALLY good at. An IR&D facility provide a means by which folks could exercise their skills EVERY DAY. Further, we'd acquire valuable insight into skills that the most motivated individuals in our employ can bring to bear on the company's fortunes. The best thing is that such a facility can be operated on perhaps 2-5% of our total engineering overhead budget. A pittance. This is a generic document intended to identify and exploit simple ideas. I'll be pleased to share it with the List and get your feedback. Further, it's my hope that many of you may find the document useful in your own workplaces. Watch this space. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
Bob, when I was managing a software company that was moving into a new building, we designed in 2 unusual rooms: 1. A complete laundry room with a washer, dryer, sink, ironing board, hooks, cabinets, hangers, etc. 2. A children's play room, complete with miscellaneous toys The theory was that we had a bunch of brilliant programmers who enjoyed coding, and if they had time on a Saturday afternoon to do their laundry but could also do some coding while they were waiting for the washer or the dryer, they would come to the office to do it. If they had kids, they would bring them to the office to play while they did some playing of their own on the computer. This was back in the days when few people could yet afford a personal computer at home. I personally thought it was brilliant, and it worked like a charm. Right up to the time the management of the company was swapped out for some bean counters who were more concerned with whether little Johnny would hurt himself in the play room. Soon thereafter the company's doors were locked at 17:01 every day, nobody came in on weekends, the brilliant team of programmers dissolved, and I don't work there any more either. Dave Morris At 04:33 PM 1/29/2007, you wrote: > > > >>As usual, Bob has succinctly assessed the problem. If I looks at a >>project or item and decide that "I can't build it for that" then it >>seems far better to expend money than time--unless one undertakes it as >>an educational endeavor and not to save money. If we value our time >>very highly (which we must not or we wouldn't be building airplanes!), >>then with an embarrassingly high frequency, it truly is cheaper to buy >>it then build it. > > This is usually the case . . . unless you're already skilled > at the building part. On the other side, real education is > truly expensive in terms of $time$ expended . . . often with > no demonstrable expectation for return on investment. > > I'd hate to see a real spreadsheet on the $time$ I've expended > purely for the fun of finding out something new or to try > my hand at some new skill. I've often admitted to being > "afflicted" with that strange disease where my vocation > is also my avocation. I do this stuff for the boss under > conditions that are often frustrating and then come home > to do it some more where it's got to be fun or I wouldn't do it. > > I'm crafting a white paper for the new managers of > Hawker-Beech dealing with the need for REAL IR&D > facilities. The business case goes to several > management issues but the one I like the most is to > suggest that we (the company) should support an IR&D > activity with tools, materials, facility and mentorship > but to be utilized on the employee's OWN time. Shucks, > everybody would show up if they had a work order. > > I've suggested that such a facility would be a valuable > human resources "filter" . . . I would guess that out > of 900 or so engineers and perhaps 1,000 more technical > staff, there are perhaps 50-100 folks who have "the > disease". I'm telling them that it would be useful > to KNOW who those folks are and what they're REALLY > good at. An IR&D facility provide a means by which > folks could exercise their skills EVERY DAY. Further, > we'd acquire valuable insight into skills that > the most motivated individuals in our employ can bring > to bear on the company's fortunes. > > The best thing is that such a facility can be operated > on perhaps 2-5% of our total engineering overhead > budget. A pittance. > > This is a generic document intended to identify and > exploit simple ideas. I'll be pleased to share it > with the List and get your feedback. Further, it's > my hope that many of you may find the document useful > in your own workplaces. Watch this space. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Aircraft wiring for smart people
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Hey folks, does anyone have a copy of the PCB artwork file Greg Richter offers in his work " Aircraft wiring for smart people"? I have been unable to reach him via email and would like to see what the board looks like. Thanks, Tim Andres Cozy MK IV Redding, Ca -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Bob et al, For me, the issue is not time vs money. Of equal importance are quality and understanding! When I look at my buddies' airplanes I realize that my electrical system is far better than theirs! And it's not just "my plane's better than yours", but mine is the "best-I-know-how-to-do" with failure tolerance built in. When they are having electrical issues, I'm not! When they are suffering from EMI, I'm not! When their batteries are whipped, mine's not! And, when they are scratching their heads wondering what's causing a certain problem, I'm not! I know just what I've got, how it is supposed to work, how it might fail, and what to do about it when and if it does! Now that is a great confidence builder and I have only one man to thank for it, Bob Nuckolls! I tell everyone that will listen about the Aeroelectric Connection and this site. I show them all the neat and wonderfull electrical thingies built into my plane. They nod their heads in obvious approval and admiration and go on doing what they've always done :o( Well, it's just not for everyone, is it? We are the lucky few. The chosen ones! We get to benefit from the wisdom and tutelage of the master. We enjoy the fellowship of the list. It's beautiful really. Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . .
> >Bob, when I was managing a software company that was moving into a new >building, we designed in 2 unusual rooms: >1. A complete laundry room with a washer, dryer, sink, ironing board, >hooks, cabinets, hangers, etc. >2. A children's play room, complete with miscellaneous toys > >The theory was that we had a bunch of brilliant programmers who enjoyed >coding, and if they had time on a Saturday afternoon to do their laundry >but could also do some coding while they were waiting for the washer or >the dryer, they would come to the office to do it. If they had kids, they >would bring them to the office to play while they did some playing of >their own on the computer. This was back in the days when few people >could yet afford a personal computer at home. > >I personally thought it was brilliant, and it worked like a charm. Right >up to the time the management of the company was swapped out for some bean >counters who were more concerned with whether little Johnny would hurt >himself in the play room. Soon thereafter the company's doors were locked >at 17:01 every day, nobody came in on weekends, the brilliant team of >programmers dissolved, and I don't work there any more either. Shucky darn! I thought I had an original thought here. Seriously though, thank you for the anecdote. I'll add it to my white paper. I hadn't thought about the expanded support for family matters. Good concept. For those on the List who are interested in such things download this .mp3 file at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Elings/Look_at_the_Big_Picture.mp3 This guy Elings is a modern day Edison, Kettering, King, Collins, etc. I work with folks who remember when Art Collins . . . http://www.collinsclubs.com/history/ . . . maintained an "open stockroom". If anyone needed some parts for a personal endeavor, have at it. Don't run the bin so low that it puts production at risk . . . if the bin looks low, get some more ordered. Same with Ed King . . . http://mcguinn1342.blogspot.com/2006/01/ed-king-story.html I have what I believe was the tenth King KY-90 transceiver that I found at OSH in '86. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Radios/P1012762.JPG http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Radios/P1012763.JPG It's s/n 110 and someone told me years ago that Ed started with #101. I'd like to believe that Ed may have personally touched this one before it left his fledgling operation in Olathe, Ks about the time I was graduating from high school! Same with Electromech where I worked in the 70's. Dr. Elings speaks of the open stockroom at Hewlett-Packard and at his fledgling company Digital Instruments. Smart managers understand that if you expect your creative folks to be really good at their jobs, they need to be exceedingly familiar with the ingredients that feed into recipes for success. Familiarity can come in ANY endeavor. At Beech we used to have at least 4 separate labs with equipment, parts, and support staff. We had the first multi-layer, plated-through hole ECB shop in the midwest. All that has slowly been eliminated with the notion that we (1) need to have documented tracking of all inventory and how it's expended and (2) don't do anything in house you can do out of house. The net result was predictable. Just as your byte-thrashers found other places to expand their horizons, our most prized carriers of "the disease" were spread out over the square mile in various project groups. The vast majority have retired. I'm amongst perhaps a dozen of the old guard that are left. However, from the attendees of my lunchtime learning sessions at H-B and Saturday morning mini-seminars at WSU, I've identified some promising young bucks who show distinct symptoms of "the disease". My efforts at Hawker-Beech are to rebuild the IR&D facility with even loftier goals. I've told our chief scientist that I want to spend my last years at H-B teaching. This would include troubleshooting problem aircraft . . . but with a budget that allows me to have at least one of the youngsters working right beside me. I suspect the chances of making it happen at my day-job are less than 50% . . . but I have plan-B. A good friend of mine is building a new production facility just two miles from H-B and right across the street from the new Aviation Technical Center being planned for Jabara Airport. The ideas behind having an IR&D facility were not lost on him. At lunch a few months ago, his eyes lit up and he offered to "sponsor" my IR&D facility if it didn't spool up at H-B. He realized that the expense of supporting a facility was trivial and would attract a cadre of individuals he'd love to have on staff but could not justify full time salaries. However, by having them regularly hang around HIS facility, he would have access to their talents on an as-needed basis. Smart man! One way or another, my activities in aviation are going to get out of the certification business and concentrate on teaching and new development. I've already had some conversation with folks who are running the new ATC across the street from my buddy's proposed factory. They're excited about supporting and exploiting the sunk-werks. I might teach part time for them as well. What ever I end up doing is going to be fun . . . or I'm not going to do it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
> > >Bob et al, > >For me, the issue is not time vs money. Of equal importance are quality >and understanding! > >When I look at my buddies' airplanes I realize that my electrical system >is far better than theirs! And it's not just "my plane's better than >yours", but mine is the "best-I-know-how-to-do" with failure tolerance >built in. > >When they are having electrical issues, I'm not! When they are suffering >from EMI, I'm not! When their batteries are whipped, mine's not! And, when >they are scratching their heads wondering what's causing a certain >problem, I'm not! > >I know just what I've got, how it is supposed to work, how it might fail, >and what to do about it when and if it does! Now that is a great >confidence builder and I have only one man to thank for it, Bob Nuckolls! > >I tell everyone that will listen about the Aeroelectric Connection and >this site. I show them all the neat and wonderfull electrical thingies >built into my plane. They nod their heads in obvious approval and >admiration and go on doing what they've always done :o( > >Well, it's just not for everyone, is it? We are the lucky few. The chosen >ones! We get to benefit from the wisdom and tutelage of the master. We >enjoy the fellowship of the list. It's beautiful really. Careful my friend. Do you suffer from sleepless nights 'cause yer head is busy considering a problem? Would you rather buy a new tool than go to a ball game? Are the drawers and shelves in your shop stuffed with junque you picked up at garage sales and industrial surplus stores? You may be a victim of "the disease" . . . now if some kid in your family or perhaps the neighborhood is really lucky, he/she may "catch the disease" from you. If that happens, you'll find yourself compelled to take on yet another "project" in an already too-full schedule. I'll suggest that few projects offer greater opportunity for satisfaction and excitement than to see someone come thorough a door you've opened and then watch them run way out ahead of you. I visited my most cherished teacher in California a few years after I graduated from high school and he left Boeing for AeroJet General. I'll never forget the disappointment on his face when I confessed to having bailed on college. I don't think anyone had higher hopes for me than did he. I've been ever mindful of that look on his face and vowed to make sure his faith and efforts on my behalf were not wasted. Of all the people who I might wish to visit with today, it would be him. He succumbed to cancer a few years after I saw him last. He is gone but never forgotten. It's my observation that the terminal phase of "the disease" is to become fondly remembered as friend and teacher. The longer the terminal phase lasts the better . . . so start soon. ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft wiring for smart people
> >Hey folks, does anyone have a copy of the PCB artwork file Greg Richter >offers in his work " Aircraft wiring for smart people"? I have been unable >to reach him via email and would like to see what the board looks like. Tim, at the risk of fielding accusations of being a "wet-blanket", I'll suggest that you look over a conversation I tried to have with Greg a few years ago. The exchange along with supporting documents are posted at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html I studied what could be deduced from the description he offered in his "brochure" but he steadfastly refused to discuss technical details or design philosophy. Know that the product as illustrated suffers from a variety of mechanical and electrical shortcomings. He may have refined the design since I attempted to discuss it with him, so perhaps it has been improved. For obvious reasons, we're not communicating about it much these days. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Plane Power
I'm pleased to inform the List that I've already received a response to an inquiry I mailed to Steve Klodd at Plane Power this morning. A copy of the exchange has been posted at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Alternators/Plane_Power/70129A_Plane-Power_SKlodd.pdf In a nutshell, Steve tells us that the 5A breaker illustrated in their wiring diagram at . . . http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf . . . does carry field excitation current. Further, the OV protection module does pull down on this breaker to "crowbar" it open and bring a misbehaving alternator to heel. Further, this information confirms that operating the "Alternator Field" switch provides any-time, any conditions, any-reason, zero-risk ON/OFF control of the alternator which is consistent with conventions adopted for engine driven power sources on aircraft since day one. I'm pleased to make Steve's acquaintance and will endeavor to expand on this initiative. I'm equally pleased to know that my this particular product would live and operate happily in any system I would craft. I confidently endorse Plane-Power's operating philosophy for this product. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lamar Lawson" <lamar(at)takeflighttexas.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft wiring for smart people
Date: Jan 29, 2007
I have a hard copy. I might be able to scan it if you would like. Lamar N969LS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft wiring for smart people > > > Hey folks, does anyone have a copy of the PCB artwork file Greg Richter > offers in his work " Aircraft wiring for smart people"? I have been unable > to reach him via email and would like to see what the board looks like. > Thanks, Tim Andres > Cozy MK IV > Redding, Ca > > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Aircraft wiring for smart people
Date: Jan 29, 2007
Thanks, Bob....I wanted to have a look at it, I like the idea of having a central hub where most everything terminates. Seems to simplify things a great deal, or at least you can guess where most if not all of your troubles reside! BTW I looked for a long while on your site for that article and was not able to find it, thanks for the link. Tim Andres > >Hey folks, does anyone have a copy of the PCB artwork file Greg Richter >offers in his work " Aircraft wiring for smart people"? I have been unable >to reach him via email and would like to see what the board looks like. Tim, at the risk of fielding accusations of being a "wet-blanket", I'll suggest that you look over a conversation I tried to have with Greg a few years ago. The exchange along with supporting documents are posted at: -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Aircraft wiring for smart people
> >Thanks, Bob....I wanted to have a look at it, I like the idea of having a >central hub where most everything terminates. Seems to simplify things a >great deal, or at least you can guess where most if not all of your troubles >reside! BTW I looked for a long while on your site for that article and was >not able to find it, thanks for the link. >Tim Andres Hmmmm . . . hey folks, there's a Google Site Search window on the front page of the website as well as the What's New page. I've used it extensively myself for finding stuff on an increasing stack of stuff. Tim, a site search on "richter" produced 11 hits. Not trying to rag you my friend . . . just raise awareness of this handy tool. Bob. . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Scuse me - bare Nuckolls
>In a message dated 01/29/2007 11:43:39 AM Central Standard Time, >VE3LVO(at)rac.ca writes: >The series is informative, factual, accurate and informal so that if you >have a specific problem, it'll probably be sorted out before you can ask > > >>>>>> >FWIW, here's my take on the subject: > ><http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=classes/workshops>http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=classes/workshops > >Go. Learn. Execute. Hmmm . . . that WAS a surrealistic experience. It was hard to keep my head on the rest of the task that morning after seeing and knowing that those brilliant white streaks in the Texas sky were the remains of fellow aviators. In retrospect however, I would hope that sudden news of my own demise would not impede anyone from getting on with the task. We all know that there are risks associated with any endeavor. I'd much rather meet my end doing what I love as opposed to being t-boned in an intersection by a drunk. At the same time, I'm a bit chagrined to consider that if I bought it in an aviation accident, that a perfectly good airplane may have been munched as a result of some personal ineptitude. But the odds are these ol' bones are going to give it up in bed. Bottom line is that we can best honor those who go before us best by exploiting what we've learned from their contributions. To be both good students and teachers so that risks remain acceptably low while our confidence and numbers continue to grow. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Aircraft wiring for smart people
Date: Jan 29, 2007
This isn't the first time I couldn't find my butt with both hands...Tim -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft wiring for smart people > >Thanks, Bob....I wanted to have a look at it, I like the idea of having a >central hub where most everything terminates. Seems to simplify things a >great deal, or at least you can guess where most if not all of your troubles >reside! BTW I looked for a long while on your site for that article and was >not able to find it, thanks for the link. >Tim Andres Hmmmm . . . hey folks, there's a Google Site Search window on the front page of the website as well as the What's New page. I've used it extensively myself for finding stuff on an increasing stack of stuff. Tim, a site search on "richter" produced 11 hits. Not trying to rag you my friend . . . just raise awareness of this handy tool. Bob. . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Verwey" <bonanza(at)vodamail.co.za>
Subject: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
Date: Jan 30, 2007
Dave, apparently the folks at Google have the same philosophy, right down to sleeping facilities! Bobv A35 Bonanza -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave N6030X Sent: 30 Jan 2007 12:53 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: To buy or not to buy, that is the question --> Bob, when I was managing a software company that was moving into a new building, we designed in 2 unusual rooms: 1. A complete laundry room with a washer, dryer, sink, ironing board, hooks, cabinets, hangers, etc. 2. A children's play room, complete with miscellaneous toys The theory was that we had a bunch of brilliant programmers who enjoyed coding, and if they had time on a Saturday afternoon to do their laundry but could also do some coding while they were waiting for the washer or the dryer, they would come to the office to do it. If they had kids, they would bring them to the office to play while they did some playing of their own on the computer. This was back in the days when few people could yet afford a personal computer at home. I personally thought it was brilliant, and it worked like a charm. Right up to the time the management of the company was swapped out for some bean counters who were more concerned with whether little Johnny would hurt himself in the play room. Soon thereafter the company's doors were locked at 17:01 every day, nobody came in on weekends, the brilliant team of programmers dissolved, and I don't work there any more either. Dave Morris At 04:33 PM 1/29/2007, you wrote: > > > >>As usual, Bob has succinctly assessed the problem. If I looks at a >>project or item and decide that "I can't build it for that" then it >>seems far better to expend money than time--unless one undertakes it >>as an educational endeavor and not to save money. If we value our >>time very highly (which we must not or we wouldn't be building >>airplanes!), then with an embarrassingly high frequency, it truly is >>cheaper to buy it then build it. > > This is usually the case . . . unless you're already skilled > at the building part. On the other side, real education is > truly expensive in terms of $time$ expended . . . often with > no demonstrable expectation for return on investment. > > I'd hate to see a real spreadsheet on the $time$ I've expended > purely for the fun of finding out something new or to try > my hand at some new skill. I've often admitted to being > "afflicted" with that strange disease where my vocation > is also my avocation. I do this stuff for the boss under > conditions that are often frustrating and then come home > to do it some more where it's got to be fun or I wouldn't do it. > > I'm crafting a white paper for the new managers of > Hawker-Beech dealing with the need for REAL IR&D > facilities. The business case goes to several > management issues but the one I like the most is to > suggest that we (the company) should support an IR&D > activity with tools, materials, facility and mentorship > but to be utilized on the employee's OWN time. Shucks, > everybody would show up if they had a work order. > > I've suggested that such a facility would be a valuable > human resources "filter" . . . I would guess that out > of 900 or so engineers and perhaps 1,000 more technical > staff, there are perhaps 50-100 folks who have "the > disease". I'm telling them that it would be useful > to KNOW who those folks are and what they're REALLY > good at. An IR&D facility provide a means by which > folks could exercise their skills EVERY DAY. Further, > we'd acquire valuable insight into skills that > the most motivated individuals in our employ can bring > to bear on the company's fortunes. > > The best thing is that such a facility can be operated > on perhaps 2-5% of our total engineering overhead > budget. A pittance. > > This is a generic document intended to identify and > exploit simple ideas. I'll be pleased to share it > with the List and get your feedback. Further, it's > my hope that many of you may find the document useful > in your own workplaces. Watch this space. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rodney Dunham" <rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: the fellowship of the list
Date: Jan 30, 2007
>Do you suffer from sleepless nights 'cause yer head is busy considering a >problem?< Not really. But I do put myself to sleep building airplanes in my mind! I try to work through an upcoming task or problem as far as I can by visualizing each step as I lay in bed. The next thing I know, the alarm clock is going off, it's 5:30AM and time to go out to the garage and DO it! It's better than Ambien! >"Would you rather buy a new tool than go to a ball game?< Oh heck yeah! I've never understood the attraction of sports, so this one is a no brainer. My friends marvel at my 'lectric tool kit(s). "You're so organized!" Well, if I didn't keep the tools all together, I wouldn't be able to find them when I need them at 5:30AM :o) >Are the drawers and shelves in your shop stuffed with junque you picked up >at garage sales and industrial surplus stores?< Well, my WIFE calls it junk, but YOU don't have too :o( >You may be a victim of "the disease"< Busted! >...now if some kid in your family or perhaps the neighborhood is really >lucky, he/she may "catch the disease" from you. If that happens, you'll find yourself compelled to take on yet another "project" in an already too-full schedule.< Actually, that sounds kinda cool! I love to teach and folks say I'm really good at it. Last summer I held ground school (I'm not a CFI) every Saturday for 10 weeks to help the guys at the flight park study for their Sport Pilot tickets. The trucker that I told my wife wasn't going to make it is the first to complete his check ride and get his ticket! He approached me right after his check ride and, in a humble and appreciative way, thanked me for helping him achieve his dream. It was great! Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead _________________________________________________________________ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
> >Actually, that sounds kinda cool! I love to teach and folks say I'm really >good at it. Last summer I held ground school (I'm not a CFI) every >Saturday for 10 weeks to help the guys at the flight park study for their >Sport Pilot tickets. The trucker that I told my wife wasn't going to make >it is the first to complete his check ride and get his ticket! He >approached me right after his check ride and, in a humble and appreciative >way, thanked me for helping him achieve his dream. It was great! > > >Rodney in Tennessee >Unabashed Nuckollhead Welcome to the community of teachers. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
> >Dave, apparently the folks at Google have the same philosophy, right down to >sleeping facilities! > >Bobv >A35 Bonanza I'd heard that before. Is there a link to something on the 'net that might talk about it? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Verwey" <bonanza(at)vodamail.co.za>
Subject: RE: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
Date: Jan 30, 2007
I caught the last bit of a TV programme about how they operate....couple of months ago now! -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: 30 Jan 2007 02:56 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: To buy or not to buy, that is the question --> >--> > >Dave, apparently the folks at Google have the same philosophy, right >down to sleeping facilities! > >Bobv >A35 Bonanza I'd heard that before. Is there a link to something on the 'net that might talk about it? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
> > > Try http://www.google.com/corporate/culture.html. Google has a very >open attitude with their employees and follow the old mantra that a >happy employee is a productive employee. Thanks! Very useful data. About a year ago a survey was circulated around the department that stated, "We're trying to attract fresh engineering talent to Wichita and to the company. On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it that . . ." Then followed with some inane items like: Wichita have a symphony orchestra? Wichita have a good bus system? The questions went on like that for a time before ending up with . . . "How important is it that the prospective employee have interesting and exciting work to do?" Well duh . . . I hope we didn't pay this company more than $10 to conduct this sophomoric piece of work. I wrote about two pages of critical review on the real issues for talent acquisition and retention and pasted it into the little comments box at the bottom of the survey. Don't know if anyone in the company ever saw it. The writing style was certainly identifiable as words coming from me. Never heard a peep about the outcome of the survey or my mini-dissertation on human resources management. Some days I think I'm in the Twilight Zone when perfectly serious folks make judgements and assign $high$ tasks that are completely detached from logical assembly of simple-ideas! Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
May I go one step further, and ask all of you who had a great teacher sometime in your past to please go THANK that teacher for what you learned. I did that last year with 2 of my best friends in high school. We all 3 decided that Mr. Palm had been the greatest teacher in our lives and that we needed to find him and thank him. For me that involved flying to Frankfurt, Germany, and driving 2 hours south to Karlsruhe. He was now in a wheelchair but was so excited to see us after 35 years, it brought tears to his eyes. I suggest he won't have to *think* that maybe he made a difference in someone's life; he will *know* he did. Photos of "then" and "now". As you can see, you're always still a kid to your teacher: http://tinyurl.com/2ustxn http://tinyurl.com/2rrj4y With the Internet, Google, and online white pages, it's now much easier to find people from your distant past. Dave Morris At 06:54 AM 1/30/2007, you wrote: > > >> > > > > >>Actually, that sounds kinda cool! I love to teach and folks say I'm >>really good at it. Last summer I held ground school (I'm not a CFI) >>every Saturday for 10 weeks to help the guys at the flight park >>study for their Sport Pilot tickets. The trucker that I told my >>wife wasn't going to make it is the first to complete his check >>ride and get his ticket! He approached me right after his check >>ride and, in a humble and appreciative way, thanked me for helping >>him achieve his dream. It was great! >> >> >>Rodney in Tennessee >>Unabashed Nuckollhead > > Welcome to the community of teachers. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft wiring for smart people
Date: Jan 30, 2007
I can only find mine with one hand! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:00 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft wiring for smart people > > > This isn't the first time I couldn't find my butt with both hands...Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert > L. > Nuckolls, III > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:44 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aircraft wiring for smart people > > > > >> >>Thanks, Bob....I wanted to have a look at it, I like the idea of having a >>central hub where most everything terminates. Seems to simplify things a >>great deal, or at least you can guess where most if not all of your > troubles >>reside! BTW I looked for a long while on your site for that article and >>was >>not able to find it, thanks for the link. >>Tim Andres > > Hmmmm . . . hey folks, there's a Google Site Search window > on the front page of the website as well as the What's New > page. I've used it extensively myself for finding stuff > on an increasing stack of stuff. > > Tim, a site search on "richter" produced 11 hits. Not > trying to rag you my friend . . . just raise awareness > of this handy tool. > > Bob. . . > > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: the fellowship of the list
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
While everyone else calls it the junk of life that is collected, I call it the treasures, and each treasure has its story on how it was found, scavenged or otherwise taken from its original intended use and put on the shelf just in case I need it someday! We should start a 12 step program on this.... Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunham Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:53 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: the fellowship of the list >Do you suffer from sleepless nights 'cause yer head is busy considering a >problem?< Not really. But I do put myself to sleep building airplanes in my mind! I try to work through an upcoming task or problem as far as I can by visualizing each step as I lay in bed. The next thing I know, the alarm clock is going off, it's 5:30AM and time to go out to the garage and DO it! It's better than Ambien! >"Would you rather buy a new tool than go to a ball game?< Oh heck yeah! I've never understood the attraction of sports, so this one is a no brainer. My friends marvel at my 'lectric tool kit(s). "You're so organized!" Well, if I didn't keep the tools all together, I wouldn't be able to find them when I need them at 5:30AM :o) >Are the drawers and shelves in your shop stuffed with junque you picked up >at garage sales and industrial surplus stores?< Well, my WIFE calls it junk, but YOU don't have too :o( >You may be a victim of "the disease"< Busted! >...now if some kid in your family or perhaps the neighborhood is really >lucky, he/she may "catch the disease" from you. If that happens, you'll find yourself compelled to take on yet another "project" in an already too-full schedule.< Actually, that sounds kinda cool! I love to teach and folks say I'm really good at it. Last summer I held ground school (I'm not a CFI) every Saturday for 10 weeks to help the guys at the flight park study for their Sport Pilot tickets. The trucker that I told my wife wasn't going to make it is the first to complete his check ride and get his ticket! He approached me right after his check ride and, in a humble and appreciative way, thanked me for helping him achieve his dream. It was great! Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead _________________________________________________________________ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: shielded wires
>have used bobs illustrations and have done a good job making pigtails and >daisy chaining the shielded wires for my ptt switch. now i notice the 2 >wire shielded cable a little stiff to easily slip into my control stick. >wouldnt it work to attach the shield to my alum. control stick and then >use plain 22ga wire inside the stick? wont the stick act as the shield? > appreciate any input, bob noffs Bob, sorry for the delay on this. There's been a lot of conversation on the List recently and your inquiry moved a long way up the IN box . . . Sure . . . first, as I mentioned in another posting earlier, the vast majority of shielding called out in various drawings probably contributes nothing of electrical value in the typical small aircraft installation. This is because there are VERY few noise sources that propagate chiefly by electrostatic coupling . . . which is the form of firewall provided by shielding. I also confessed to using a lot of shielded wire as a convenience for quick-n-dirty multiple-conductor signal pathways in a bundle. I've got multi-thousand foot spools of single, twisted pair and twisted trio on the rack. If I need a trio for some task, I'm quite likely to grab a hunk of shielded than to build my own length of twisted wires. So, having confessed to all that, know that your suggestion for not taking the shields up the stick is a sound one but not for the reason you've guessed. It's not that the shielding is really useful but that it mostly likely doesn't matter. ------------- < CAUTION > ------------- When installing a system wherein the instructions CALL OUT shielded wire, don't use this mini-dissertation to justify dumping shields unless you have a strong understanding of what those wires do an what the risks might be for electro- static noise ingress. All the LED annunicator fixtures I supply are wired with shielded wire as a fabrication convenience. See pages 10 and 11 of: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.pdf As I mentioned above, it's EASY to use shielded wire whether or not the shield is necessary . . . but it can be damned difficult to pull the new shielded wire in later. I've offered these words as enlightenment to the realities of shielding, not as a general recommendation to ignore the callouts on manufacturer's installation instructions. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
> >I want to split the signal from my COMM antenna so I can plug >in a handheld when necessary. Can you tell me what type of >splitter I need, and possibly where to find one? BandC doesn't >seem to carry them. The least expensive and most reliable means by which you can share the airplane's external antenna with a hand held is to route the COMM antenna cable through the cockpit such that a pair of connectors . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/crimpcf.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/s605cm.jpg come together within easy reach of the pilot. Coil up some excess length on the ANTENNA SIDE pigtail and make sure this piece of coax has the cable male connector on it. If the panel mounted radio becomes unavailable to you, open this joint and bring the antenna pigtail up to the hand held. You'll also find it useful to use TWO right angle adapters . . . http://tinyurl.com/2u3qzy . . . on the end of this pigtail. The coax can now pass up the back side of your hand held and make a 180-degree u-turn to mate with the radio's BNC connector at the top. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) ( anything, what ever you do must be ) ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . .
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > Smart managers understand that if you expect your > creative folks to be really good at their jobs, they > need to be exceedingly familiar with the ingredients > that feed into recipes for success. Familiarity can come > in ANY endeavor. Don't go chasing windmills, Bob. Today's 'smart managers' (or at least the ones in control who think they are) believe the smart people shouldn't be working for the company. They should be off creating start-ups. The company will buy the start-up once it has produced a successful product. This avoids that whole messy issue of having to understand the business you're in or what it is you're making. That stuff doesn't fit easily on a spreadsheet or in a slide show, you know. Much better to have expensive lunches wheeling and dealing, where you talk about people as interchangeable 'resources', whether they be a seasoned engineer or a Chinese subsistance farmer. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 8awg line to forrest of tabs
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 30, 2007
Discussions with some customers resulted in the following tales: 1) Battery in the tail of a metal-skinned aircraft. Battery positive is to contactor and fatwire going forward. Battery negative is to the airframe. Aircraft structure is riveted double epoxy coated aluminum sheets. Big engine. 200A ground current. Scares me Bubela. Are the rivets getting hot? 2) Purchased aircraft had ground to metal airframe. New owner installed separate ground wires, one to ground everything in the left and right wings, one to the tail loads, one to the panel. Now he has amazing instrument deflections when various loads are energized. These tales are illustrations that ground currents are just like any other currents. I mention this because familiarity with automobile electrics where the steel chassis carries the ground currents often lead builders to ignore this essential point. Furthermore grounds are often grouped together or wired to "common" ground busses without much regard to the voltage drops caused by large ground currents flowing through them. Often many loads will attach their ground connections to a smaller ground bus, often buried in the panel right under sensitive instruments. This needs rethinking. You wouldn't put a positive high-current conductor there...!? I agree with the "forest of tabs" approach and I suggest that the idea of other "ground busses" etc. needs some careful thinking to take grouped ground currents into consideration. "Never be afraid to tell the world who you are." - Anonymous -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=91589#91589 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: John Coloccia <john(at)ballofshame.com>
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
When your goal is to get it done, I always tell my engineers the same thing: "Don't build what you can buy, and don't buy what you can steal". It's very rare I can resolve a problem more effeciently than purchasing someone else's canned, tested and mass produced solution. I tell them to let other companies concentrate on the support widgets...we'll concentrate on the REAL problems. -John www.ballofshame.com Chuck Jensen wrote: > > Bob wrote... > Not rambling thoughts but critical design review. > I don't know how many builders have written or called > about sources for materials to accomplish some portion > of their project DIY. I always try to ask, "Are you > doing this because you WANT to learn how it's done > and enjoy doing it for the experience . . . or is it > to save money." > > More often than not, the answer is, "to save money". > I've come to realize that our rudimentary commodity > of exchange is $time$ . . . and when one considers > the total cost of acquisition and ownership in terms > of total $time$, they quite often find that it would > have been better to spend their $time$ acquiring > cash at something they're good at than to spend more > $time$ in an attempt to get something new done right > the first time. > > As usual, Bob has succinctly assessed the problem. If I looks at a > project or item and decide that "I can't build it for that" then it > seems far better to expend money than time--unless one undertakes it as > an educational endeavor and not to save money. If we value our time > very highly (which we must not or we wouldn't be building airplanes!), > then with an embarrassingly high frequency, it truly is cheaper to buy > it then build it. > > Chuck > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
> >May I go one step further, and ask all of you who had a great teacher >sometime in your past to please go THANK that teacher for what you >learned. I did that last year with 2 of my best friends in high >school. We all 3 decided that Mr. Palm had been the greatest teacher in >our lives and that we needed to find him and thank him. Point well taken sir . . . and I'm pleased that you were able to get the job done. I mentioned earlier that my most cherished teacher died a few months before I relocated him after a long period of isolation. There were many things I would have wished to share with him . . . not the least of which was my appreciation for how he influenced my life. I attempted to assuage my guilt for ignoring him so long by relating my story to his widow. I've not thought about this for years and it took some digging to find the file which I'll share with my friends here on the List. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/comentary/Ed_Fistor.pdf Please use this posting as a demonstration and strong suggestion that if you have a story to share with a cherished teacher, don't put it off lest the only interested listener become his/her survivors. The risks of total disconnection grow day by day. Get it done SOON. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 01/29/07
Bob: You wrote "In a nutshell, Steve tells us that the 5A breaker illustrated in their wiring diagram at . . . http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf . . . does carry field excitation current. Further, the OV protection module does pull down on this breaker to "crowbar" it open and bring a misbehaving alternator to heel." All I can say is halleluiah!!!! Spelling??? ;>) Regards, Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 01/29/07
I should also say, THANKS BOB for following up with Plane Power so quickly and comprehensively. This really is great news for a lot of us! Regards, Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Steer" <steerr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Fusible link question
Date: Jan 30, 2007
Bob, Can a fusible link be included in a wire bundle, or is it better practice to keep it separate from a bundle? I'm wiring up fuse blocks; the fusible link, as shown in Z-1, is in the wire that connects the main buss terminal to the master switch. Thanks for any info. Bill Steer Zenith 601HD, Stratus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
I had a super math teacher two years in high school. I went back twenty years later and ran into him. I told him sincerely that he was the best math teacher I ever had. It was obvious it made his day. Dave N6030X wrote: > > > May I go one step further, and ask all of you who had a great teacher > sometime in your past to please go THANK that teacher for what you > learned. I did that last year with 2 of my best friends in high > school. We all 3 decided that Mr. Palm had been the greatest teacher > in our lives and that we needed to find him and thank him. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question
> >When your goal is to get it done, I always tell my engineers the same thing: > >"Don't build what you can buy, and don't buy what you can steal". > >It's very rare I can resolve a problem more effeciently than purchasing >someone else's canned, tested and mass produced solution. I tell them to >let other companies concentrate on the support widgets...we'll concentrate >on the REAL problems. Sure . . . but you do allude to "real" problems as opposed to what I might infer are "unreal"? There's little value - perhaps only losses of $time$ to be realized by re-inventing useful and already optimized wheels. These are the old-growth. Trunks and branches that are already in place and have stood the test of time. Your real engineering takes place out at the tips of the branches where new-growth is expected to take place. Things that happen here cannot be purchased elsewhere because the goals of that work do not yet exist. The corporate cultures upon which we're doing critical review exhibit virtually no new intellectual growth. Whether for lack of resources (water, nutrients, sunshine) or is simply pruned off with some notion that doing so "conserves resources" for growth at the bottom line. While the practice appears fiscally efficient, it overlooks or ignores the fact that one of the resources needed for new grown comes in the form of talent from a relatively small segment of the total work force. Talent that either stagnates and becomes crippled or simply leaves to find more meaningful and satisfying endeavors. When you do the make-or=buy decision on your OBAM aircraft project there are two, independent and unrelated forcing functions at play. (1) get it done with the minimum investment $time$ (the MBA approach) or (2) take an opportunity to encourage some new growth that starts with personal achievement and just might ultimately be reflected in the finished project (the skunk werks approach). The second path is never efficient in terms of $time$ compared to the first and never a sure bet. Further, there is probably an exceedingly poor return on investment even on a successful project UNLESS that new-growth becomes part of the trunks and branches of other folks projects. Your achievements may become the "already invented wheels" for other folks projects. Only then can the potential for a healthy fiscal return on investment be realized. But for many, fiscal returns are not the goal. It is enough to know that your efforts have produced a useful variation on the art and science of OBAM aircraft development. "I did it and I like it" is sufficient. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Plane Power
>Bob: You wrote "In a nutshell, Steve tells us that the 5A breaker >illustrated in their wiring diagram at . . . ><http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf>http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf >. . . >does carry field excitation current. Further, the OV >protection module does pull down on this breaker to >"crowbar" it open and bring a misbehaving alternator to heel." > >All I can say is halleluiah!!!! Spelling??? ;>) Yup, it comes out the same in any language. This product appears to meet design goals consistent with seamless integration into traditional aircraft architectures and operating philosophies. Having passed that milestone, it remains for these new kids on the block to earn their merit badges in product performance and customer satisfaction. Frankly, this can be a much taller hurdle than meeting design goals. I do wish them well and will offer to assist where ever practical and appropriate. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)allvantage.com>
Subject: Charging Dual Batteries
Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have anything feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will slowly be discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it will not be hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine battery contactor is closed. Somebody please 'splain this to me?? What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long?? Thanks, Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: the fellowship of the list
> >I had a super math teacher two years in high school. I went back twenty >years later and ran into him. I told him sincerely that he was the best >math teacher I ever had. It was obvious it made his day. Dr. Dee has been teaching at the college level for a relatively short time but even now, she will occasionally come home cruising 6-inches off the floor. She'll then relate some experience with a past student who has taken the time to express their appreciation and enthusiasm for what they acquired in her class. This ladies and gentlemen is a return on investment that every teacher appreciates above all else. If you'd like to see their energy and resolve sustained so that good work is continued, your feedback is an important constituent in the nutrients needed for personal new-growth. I was exceedingly fortunate to realize the benefits I received from my teachers early on. For some of us, the realizations may come much later. The 'net's research tools are pretty powerful for finding people. Go find your best teachers and stroke them a 'bit. You'll both feel better for it. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fusible link question
> >Bob, > >Can a fusible link be included in a wire bundle, or is it better practice >to keep it separate from a bundle? I'm wiring up fuse blocks; the fusible >link, as shown in Z-1, is in the wire that connects the main buss terminal >to the master switch. > >Thanks for any info. I do not recommend the use of fusible links in any locations other than those illustrated in the drawings. If fabricated as suggested with the fiberglass sleeve, they may be tied into bundles with other wires. The sleeve contains the potential for propagating damage to other wires. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John and Kim Lumkes" <lumkes(at)msoe.edu>
Subject: Handheld Radios
Date: Jan 31, 2007
The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. Thanks, John Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Charging Dual Batteries
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
I don't think you're missing anything - I'm using the essentially the Z19 architecture and plan to keep both contactors closed all the time for normal operations, so both batteries are charged by the alternator. My procedure for alternator failure is: E-Bus Switch ON, both Masters OFF. This isolates the batteries and lets them independently power the items connected to their hot busses. Dennis Glaeser ----------------------------------------------- Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have anything feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will slowly be discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it will not be hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine battery contactor is closed. Somebody please 'splain this to me?? What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long?? Thanks, Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Charging Dual Batteries
> > >Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have anything >feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will slowly be >discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it will not be >hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine battery contactor >is closed. >Somebody please 'splain this to me?? >What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the >contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long?? Any time an alternator is running and the low voltage warning light is out, then ALL battery contactors on ALL architectures are closed. Only when engine driven power sources are not available does one go to Plan-B. The details of this plan varies depending on the specific architecture. When the low voltage light comes on, you then move to a pre-planned activity that maximizes utilization of a scarce but hopefully well quantified resource - energy in the battery(ies). Your time aloft in the endurance mode is calculated and then perhaps demonstrated under Plan-B which will probably call for all battery contactors to be open in for the en route phase of flight with perhaps some closure of contactors during the approach to landing phase . . . depending on what conveniences can be added without jeopardizing a comfortable arrival with the earth. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Subject: Handheld Radios
Good Morning John, Why not just scratch the Navigation portion? I bought the communication only version of my last handheld because it has bigger lettering which is easier for my old eyes to read. If you are VFR only, you are very likely going to be flying occasionally at altitudes and in places where VOR reception is poor. GPS is much better almost all of the time. For emergency back up, carry a second or third GPS! I am not familiar with all of the products now available in the market, but I bought a Garmin E-trex several years ago for less than a hundred bucks. It has the same chip as the fifteen thousand dollar units. It will tell you within one hundred feet where you are anywhere on the planet earth. Beats the devil out of any VOR based unit. Chances are there are better and cheaper units available now than there were back then. If you do go down in the boonies and are capable of getting out of your machine, the handheld radio will allow you a good chance of being able to contact somebody on 121.5 and the handheld GPS will allow you to tell the rescuers where you are. I carry a small leather bag that contains a basic GPS, an extra I-Com with a AA battery pack and a large supply of batteries for both. That bag, and clothing suitable for the area being overflown, should provide very good potential for early and successful rescue. Wouldn't be a bad idea to carry the bag on automobile trips! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 1/31/2007 8:20:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, lumkes(at)msoe.edu writes: The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. Thanks, John Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo(at)ak.net>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
John, I used to fly a 1946 Taylorcraft with no electrical system. I used it for "fish spotting" and having radio's were mandatory. I used a hand held exclusively, I built a holder for it and used a head set and PTT and it worked great. I finally got tired of the stupid little battery going dead and wired in a wheel chair battery and that took care of that problem. So, for a com radio a hand held is great (IMHO) and with the external antenna you won't have any trouble talking to ATC. Mike Ice Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Kim Lumkes To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:14 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. Thanks, John Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Contactor
I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site? Thanks, Sam Marlow RV10 wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Hi John, Here's my 2 cents worth: It's going to depend on what kind of flying you do. If you fly in or around controlled airspace that requires you to be in contact with ATC, or if you plan to do a lot of cross country flying with Flight Following, then you're going to find the handheld to be inconvenient. If you don't expect to be doing much talking to controllers, then it might be a better deal. Here's why: As you are cruising along at 8500 feet chatting with your friend in the seat next to you or listening to tunes on your iPod, suddenly ATC will pop in and say "Barnstormer 34 Xray contact Lubbock Approach one two six point niner five goodday". Now, you only have a scant few seconds to respond, before ATC will try to contact you again (which you don't want). If you have a conventional radio with a Standby window, then 1. the instant you hear your callsign, you shush your copilot and put your fingers on the comm radio frequency selector, 2. while ATC is reading you the new frequency, you are dialing it into the Standby window 3. then you read it back to him in the split second after he says it and wish him a good day 4. you write the new freq down on your notepad for reference 5. press the transfer button, and you're on the new frequency ready to contact the next ATC. If you don't have a standby window, you have to 1. wait until he finishes reading you the frequency, while writing it down, if you can find your pencil, OR 2. memorize the frequency - risky as you get older ;) 3. then read it back to him 4. then dial the new frequency into the radio If you are unable to raise ATC on the new frequency, the standby window type of radio gives you the ability to hit the transfer button, go back to the previous frequency, and check in again to verify you have the frequency correctly or get new instructions. I have personally found the 2 window Com radio to be a great invention. The busier the airspace you're in, the faster you want to be able to react to ATC. Just last Sunday I was flying through the DFW Class B airspace mixing it up with 757s and other planes coming in and out of some very busy airspace. The controller was rattling off instructions virtually non-stop. But every so often there would be a shriek, a pause, and confusion. Turns out a poor Cherokee pilot had lost his primary radio and was trying to use a handheld. He must not have had an external antenna on it, because he would stomp all over the approach controller or other airplanes, calling for approach, and never hearing anything, so he'd do it again and again and again. This went on for about 20 minutes. The controller was about to stroke out from rage, and all of us pilots had eyes the size of saucers, were quiet (as the proverbial big-mouth frog at the end of that joke), and were EXTREMELY fast with our transmissions and reactions to anything ATC said. The best course for that poor Cherokee pilot would have been to get out of the Class B post haste and reassess the utility of that particular handheld installation. As for the utility of the NAV section on the radio, you're going to be using your GPS for everything, so the NAV will strictly be a backup. I hardly even fly by the DG any more... Ground Track is the most important thing in getting there, and the GPS becomes the focal point of all navigation. I have a Loran and a Nav radio as my 3rd and 4th backups (after pilotage), but rarely actually use them. I carry a handheld JRC com/nav radio in my flight bag in case everything goes to hell. Dave Morris www.N6030X.com At 08:14 AM 1/31/2007, you wrote: >The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a >handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: >What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the >primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with >some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or >Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" >to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and >external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since >I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a >mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be >backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a >lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV >feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, >newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms >of future options or upgrades. > >Thanks, >John >Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
>The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a >handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What >opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and >only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country >(Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both >with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of >external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a >desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS >(probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the >radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might >be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the >NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, >newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of >future options or upgrades. It's been done many times. I've got pictures somewhere showing various brackets on panel and sidewalls where builders have provided mounting provisions for a hand-held along with wire dressing techniques that keep the bundles reasonable organized when the hand-held is slipped out of the bracket for programming, etc. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "paul wilson" <pwmac(at)sisna.com>
Subject: intercom & headset kits
I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? _________________________________ SISNA...more service, less money. http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer time,
but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???)
Date: Jan 31, 2007
All these junk collection posts ( on the Aeroelectric list) brought me to mind. I live in an affluent town. At our dump, there is a " Bargain Barn" for items discarded but in working order. Recently I bough a whole reel of Romex wire, and a whole roll of 1/4" copper tubing, for about $2.00. A neat-o Regulated 12v power supply, for $.50..... a $600 Schwinn aerodyne exercise bike for $2... A Ford 351 waterpump pulley, powder coated fitting my ski boat...Also many Thule Car rack components for about the same price. There are some good deals there, but for the SERIOUS scavenger, the "toxic waste" section is a lot more fun, after all, the "normal people" don't "browse" there. It seems as though the town is filled with people who throw out full, unused gallons of Paint thinner, lacquer thinner, Transmission fluid, denatured alcohol ( not sure what to do with all that denatured alcohol) , full propane cylinders, with the seal still on, Gallons of Awl-grip paint ( think Imron for boats) and related reducers, ( like a $800 box of this stuff) and 3 mostly full gallons of $150/gallon marine anti fouling paint. A full pint of Marine tex. We are a seaside community, so the boat stuff is rampant. I junked a Buick recently and had to keep the engine.. after all, you never know when you'll need a 5.7 GM engine, with the ECM and harness..fits many boats and my truck... It is a disease. The Bridgeport Milling Machine with DRO in my garage bay sez it all...Got it free on a machinery deal, made the tractor do wheelies getting it off the flatbed... I really find I use the stuff I collected, I mean, what if you need some carbon brushes for an alternator??.. I have a few spares..You should see my basement, or just come on over if you need something to build with.. I probably have two sitting around and I'll give you one. A rich mine of project raw materials. I would never fit into a "normal neighborhood" Too many boats fired up at midnight on trailers, compressors running air tools at odd hours, Trucks unloading boat carcasses, airplane fuselages....snowmobiles ridden by the kids around the yard endlessly...( we call it " packing the yard.. "you missed a spot there Jake...") And the blue and green plastic tarps, they really add to the Martha Stewart seaside cottage look that the suburban moms yearn for...and the gunfire ...and fireworks.. Oh well, I guess I just needed some online communities like you guys , because I feel ( delusionally so, but they are MY delusions, it took me a while to get here.. ) connected with you all. I just upgraded my used once every 10 years ( 6 days no power of '96 ice storm in Maine ) emergency generator to a 5kw Honda as I got it for $300.00 and sold the 4kw Coleman ( plenty of backup power but the Honda was soooo much cooler) for $200. Did you know that the 240 line on some of them has no neutral, they just go phase to phase for 220, and if you want to run your Gen-Trans switch you need a neutral, as the transfer switch separates the legs for 110 in the house.( The gens with the 4 pin connector have a neutral as well as a ground, had to rewire that bad boy...nice learning process.. It now has a cool 20' 4 pin female connector cord) You got to have back-up power don't you.. I mean, once a decade you REALLLY need it, if you want heat and the well pump, and I don't want the beer to get warm or the pizza cold..... Dave the scavenger/collector ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Subject: Contactor
Good Morning Sam, Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch? The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor. The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened the master avionics contactor. When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor leaving the avionics unpowered. When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was when it was being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics Buss unpowered. In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics. Worked for me! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, sam(at)fr8dog.net writes: I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site? Thanks, Sam Marlow RV10 wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer
time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???)
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Hey Dave, Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the "Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but 'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare room in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Leonard To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???) All these junk collection posts ( on the Aeroelectric list) brought me to mind. I live in an affluent town. At our dump, there is a " Bargain Barn" for items discarded but in working order. Recently I bough a whole reel of Romex wire, and a whole roll of 1/4" copper tubing, for about $2.00. A neat-o Regulated 12v power supply, for $.50..... a $600 Schwinn aerodyne exercise bike for $2... A Ford 351 waterpump pulley, powder coated fitting my ski boat...Also many Thule Car rack components for about the same price. There are some good deals there, but for the SERIOUS scavenger, the "toxic waste" section is a lot more fun, after all, the "normal people" don't "browse" there. It seems as though the town is filled with people who throw out full, unused gallons of Paint thinner, lacquer thinner, Transmission fluid, denatured alcohol ( not sure what to do with all that denatured alcohol) , full propane cylinders, with the seal still on, Gallons of Awl-grip paint ( think Imron for boats) and related reducers, ( like a $800 box of this stuff) and 3 mostly full gallons of $150/gallon marine anti fouling paint. A full pint of Marine tex. We are a seaside community, so the boat stuff is rampant. I junked a Buick recently and had to keep the engine.. after all, you never know when you'll need a 5.7 GM engine, with the ECM and harness..fits many boats and my truck... It is a disease. The Bridgeport Milling Machine with DRO in my garage bay sez it all...Got it free on a machinery deal, made the tractor do wheelies getting it off the flatbed... I really find I use the stuff I collected, I mean, what if you need some carbon brushes for an alternator??.. I have a few spares..You should see my basement, or just come on over if you need something to build with.. I probably have two sitting around and I'll give you one. A rich mine of project raw materials. I would never fit into a "normal neighborhood" Too many boats fired up at midnight on trailers, compressors running air tools at odd hours, Trucks unloading boat carcasses, airplane fuselages....snowmobiles ridden by the kids around the yard endlessly...( we call it " packing the yard.. "you missed a spot there Jake...") And the blue and green plastic tarps, they really add to the Martha Stewart seaside cottage look that the suburban moms yearn for...and the gunfire ...and fireworks.. Oh well, I guess I just needed some online communities like you guys , because I feel ( delusionally so, but they are MY delusions, it took me a while to get here.. ) connected with you all. I just upgraded my used once every 10 years ( 6 days no power of '96 ice storm in Maine ) emergency generator to a 5kw Honda as I got it for $300.00 and sold the 4kw Coleman ( plenty of backup power but the Honda was soooo much cooler) for $200. Did you know that the 240 line on some of them has no neutral, they just go phase to phase for 220, and if you want to run your Gen-Trans switch you need a neutral, as the transfer switch separates the legs for 110 in the house.( The gens with the 4 pin connector have a neutral as well as a ground, had to rewire that bad boy...nice learning process.. It now has a cool 20' 4 pin female connector cord) You got to have back-up power don't you.. I mean, once a decade you REALLLY need it, if you want heat and the well pump, and I don't want the beer to get warm or the pizza cold..... Dave the scavenger/collector ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Handheld Radios
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Yes I would have to agree with the last two posts on this. I flew my Zodiac for 400 hours and had a Icom A200 and a handheld GPS...Oh and a transponder which I really found to be essential, not only for flying controlled airspace but for flight following too. My one experience with a handheld com was less than stella and I simply decided to remember "7600" for the transponder code if the radio died. Doing it this way avoids you having to explain that your radio died to ATC who probably won't be able to hear you anyway. Then if you can hear ATC he will give you directions and if you can't you simply turn around and get out of their airspace. If the concern is going down somewhere I think I would invest in a GPS powered PLB....And if the landing looks hairy activate it before you hit the trees! If cost is a concern, there are many second hand older handheld GPS units out there that work perfectly well....My old Lowrance will be going into my flight bag as a backup to my IFR panel mount. As to the ICOM radio...I was so impressed with it, it is is also now my Com1 unit in my RV7. Personally I would forget about using VOR's I'm half way thru my IFR training and I still get confused by them. If you intend to do a lot of Xcountry work in your Zodiac the one really nice upgrade I would suggest is a Trutrak autopilot...Spendy yes but the Zodac is a twitchy beast (at least the HDS was) and I thing the wing leveler would see you arrive fresh rather than ragged as always happened to me after more than two hours of flying the thing. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave N6030X Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:05 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios --> Hi John, Here's my 2 cents worth: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
John, With a good quality install like you are talking about, I see no reason not to do it. I use a Vertex VXA-150 handheld as my primary radio in my Pietenpol, and I have no problems with it. I was even based at a very busy class D airport under KDFW's class B for nearly a year (Meacham, or KFTW, in Fort Worth), and I never had any problems. If you have external power, an external antenna, and a reliable headset connection, it is not a bad idea IMO. With an external antenna that I made from a brass brazing rod, I have been able to transmit and recieve over 80 miles air to air, and I can reliably communicate with anyone who has a decent radio at 40 miles. I even used the handheld on an 840 mile trip bringing the plane home. The one thing that would be more handy with the handheld is a "flip-flop" feature, and maybe easier to use presets for different frequencies. The menus on the VXA-150 are cumbersome to use, but otherwise I'm happy. The antenna is critical, you may already know how to make one, but if you are still studying that, Google Jim Weir of RST Engineering (www.rst-engr.com)...he sells an inexpensive booklet that will tell you everything you need to know about antennas. One thing that is a bad idea in my opinion is the NAV feature. Skip it, and spend that $100 on a handheld portable GPS if you really want a backup. In an emergency or a critical situation, fumbling with the NAV feature on a handheld will likely just waste your time in my opinion. A handheld GPS will give you much more information with much less work and for about the same amount of money. Steve Ruse WOT Electronics Quoting John and Kim Lumkes : > The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld > made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions > does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. > My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I > am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The > radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, > headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting > location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on > a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, > and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these > features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of > the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, > lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. > > Thanks, > John > Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor? BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Sam, > > Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, > but do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch? > > The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed > contactor. > > The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On > position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and > opened the master avionics contactor. > > When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the > master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was > turned on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the > contactor leaving the avionics unpowered. > > When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the > ON position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and > powered the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any > power was when it was being held open during the time when I wanted > the Avionics Buss unpowered. > > In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most > likely fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics. > > Worked for me! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, > sam(at)fr8dog.net writes: > > I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if > there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid > that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it > uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic > version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A > Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site? > Thanks, > Sam Marlow > RV10 wiring > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . .
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Bob, I wish I had been there at Great Lakes when you were teaching. While your insights into the world of techno-junkies is spot-on, the current crop of managers have no clue. Unfortunately, today's technical managers as stated by a previous poster come not from engineering backgrounds, but accounting schools. In addition to the bean counters not seeing the forest for the trees, there are political forces at work in the manufacturing communities that mimic "not invented here" mentality. If the ideas didn't come from some bean counters focus group it will be beaten down and stomped on, as the budgets are controlled by the bean counters. Then there's professional jealousy.. I was given the task of designing in some error proofing to some automation. I found the best point in the production process to check it and remedy a dropped step. It functioned perfectly. I tried every way to get it to fail, and it stood up to testing. Every night as part of my start up, I would test the error checking function. Enter crack addict day shift electrician (union shop, can't fire 'em). Something new in his area he didn't have a say in. Now any time the machine went down, my error checking was to blame. To make matters worse, the "controls engineer" who should have know better, played along, as it would have been work for him to check out the story. So after I get beat up in the office for 45 minutes of downtime, I ask the engineer, "if error checking had you down, all you had to do is force an input in the PLC and you're running in 30 seconds, why didn't you do that?" all he could do was stare at me blankly and shrug. (problem actually came from part sensing not related to the error checking, weld flash burr in a locating pin hole) I removed the modifications and programming that night, and I will NEVER offer my engineering abilities or ideas for improvements to my employer again. I don't know if this is only a characteristic of just BIG companies, or the auto industry in general, but I never experienced this in my career up until my entry into the auto manufacturing arena. Innovation is spurned by the politically connected. I've got tons of ideas, but won't waste them there. Best of luck convincing the counters to nurture creative minds, but if you weren't Bob Nuckolls, I'd call you Don Quixote! Craig Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Subject: Contactor
In a message dated 1/31/2007 10:04:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, sam(at)fr8dog.net writes: Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor? Good Morning Sam, The one I used was made by Essex Wire. I replaced it a few years later and found that division had been sold to Cole Hersee. I just looked in my Newark catalog and find neither Essex Wire or Cole Hersee listed! A quick check has found several other manufacturers. One is Stancor and I am sure they would have something suitable. I guess the best thing to do is attack Google until you find what you want. Happy hunting and, Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
>I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is >something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the >battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to >hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the >PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site? What's a radio master contactor? Do I presume correctly that you're operating outside design goals and examples cited in: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf It's not completely clear to me how your proposed radio master contactor fits into the overall system In any case, few avionics loads need switchgear so robust as a starter or battery contactor. For these lighter loads, there are dozens of options for various relays (mini-contactors if you will) that will handle the loads . . . not the least of which is Eric's solid state relay. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
> >I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. >Has anybody used them? I've known Jim for decades. While we might differ in design philosophies, his products are well thought out and about as robust as any kit can be. I cannot recall learning of any customer complaints as to the performance or value-received for his products. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
>Good Morning Sam, > >Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but >do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch? > >The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor. > >The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On >position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened >the master avionics contactor. > >When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the >master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned >on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor >leaving the avionics unpowered. > >When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON >position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered >the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was >when it was being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics >Buss unpowered. > >In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely >fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics. An alternative to this approach is to craft an E-Bus in the spirit and intent of any Z-figure. Then put the AMS switch-relay in series with the normal-feedpath diode. One gets all the advantages of the dual-feedpath e-bus complete with isolation from the effects of forgetting to open the master switch before closing the alternate feed switch. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Date: Jan 31, 2007
I presume you are in the USA, over here the majority of 'microlights' use the ICOM as their only radio John - England ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Kim Lumkes To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. Thanks, John Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kenneth Melvin" <melvinke(at)coho.net>
Subject: intercom & headset kits
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Built his marker beacon kit, which has performed perfectly for fifteen years now. Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: intercom & headset kits I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? _________________________________ SISNA...more service, less money. http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sierra Electrical Problem
Date: Jan 31, 2007
1/31/2007 Hello Bob Nuckolls and Fellow Listers, I am seeking your help for a friend who owns a Beech Sierra which has a 24 volt system. When we tried to start the airplane recently the starter intermittently engaged and quickly disengaged several times as soon as the master electrical switch was turned on. The keyed ignition / starter switch had not been touched. The airplane was towed to an FBO who said that the starter contactor located near the battery back in the baggage compartment was faulty and a new one would cost $450. It has been ordered. My requests: 1) Can anyone provide me with a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for this airplane? 2) Can anyone explain how electricity could get to the starter contactor without the normal contacts within the keyed ignition / starter switch being rotated into the "START" position? Many thanks for your quick help. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
>Hey Dave, > >Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the >"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you >finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but >'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your >location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare room >in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well. I've often suggested to my managers that resume's are way down on the list of useful things to see when considering a prospective new hire. I've always advised, "Go look at their workshop." Here are couple of shots of my downstairs shop. Got another "hammer-n-tongs" shop in the garage. Right next to the downstairs shop is the office with all the computers, printers, copy machine, and closet that houses the telephone and CAT5 networking hardware. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_2.jpg The second photo illustrates and experiment that I'm going to refine this summer. The shelves are low cost products from Sam's. The bins are plastic "shoe boxes" available about everywhere for about $1. I can't build a robust drawer/bin for a buck. The arrangement you see in the picture is not space efficient but it validated the idea. This summer, I'm going to have a grandson join me for a few days of making piles of sawdust (table saw is in upstairs shop) to build shelves specifically fitted to the shoe-box bins. My trusty AutoCAD drawing tells me that we'll fit 190 bins into the wall space presently occupied by the storage in the photo. I'll publish a picture of the finished project. If this works as planned, it will be repeated at work if and when I get the IR&D facility project launched. Does anyone else have examples of storage management solutions for that valuable junque? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
>Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor? In the normally closed contactor catalog. However, I'll suggest it will be easier to find if you call it a "relay". Contactors are generally in the class of double-make, high current ( >50A ) switching devices. What you're looking for is something rated on the order of 20A. The catalogs are replete with examples not the least of which may be seen at: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/1735-1738.pdf http://tinyurl.com/2jfse2 http://tinyurl.com/2jey84 Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Does anyone else have examples of storage management > solutions for that valuable junque? > No. But your wife is a saint, you lucky dog. Hold onto her with both hands. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
> > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >>Does anyone else have examples of storage management >> solutions for that valuable junque? >No. But your wife is a saint, you lucky dog. Hold onto her with both hands. She has her 'turf' too. One of the bedrooms upstairs is where she exercises here gray matter. Some of the telephone and CAT5 cables route up there. And then there's the yards. Seems like I rototill a bit more grass every year to make room for more gardens. Plotting current trends out into the future says we'll eliminate the need for a mower by the year 2011. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Handheld Radios
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Dawson, Bill" <Bill.Dawson(at)pepperdine.edu>
Im not sure how well the nav portion would work because the nav wants a horizontal antenna. The handheld com/nav would use the same vertical antenna. Yes, a nav will work with a vertical, but it's not the best. Bill -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sierra Electrical Problem
> >1/31/2007 > >Hello Bob Nuckolls and Fellow Listers, I am seeking your help for a friend >who owns a Beech Sierra which has a 24 volt system. When we tried to start >the airplane recently the starter intermittently engaged and quickly >disengaged several times as soon as the master electrical switch was >turned on. The keyed ignition / starter switch had not been touched. > >The airplane was towed to an FBO who said that the starter contactor >located near the battery back in the baggage compartment was faulty and a >new one would cost $450. It has been ordered. > >My requests: > >1) Can anyone provide me with a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for >this airplane? > >2) Can anyone explain how electricity could get to the starter contactor >without the normal contacts within the keyed ignition / starter switch >being rotated into the "START" position? > >Many thanks for your quick help. > >OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. This may be your lucky day. The ONLY TC aircraft wring diagrams book I possess is for the Sundowner/Sierra series aircraft. I've scanned the DC power, Ignition and Starter pages and posted at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/BE23-24_Bat_Ign_Strtr.pdf I'd put a voltmeter on the hot coil terminal of K102 contactor and see if there's a stray voltage causing the contactor to close intermittently. I'd have to go check the data on that contactor but I think it's a cutler-hammer 6041H series device which you can probably find off the shelf for a lot less. Send me a photo of the part and I can tell you more. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: George Jenson <george(at)georgejenson.com>
Subject: Z-13/8 Switch Question
Listers / Bob, I'm planning my electrical system (Z-13/8, Plane Power main alt) and panel and want the switches and layout to be as simple and logical as possible. I am considering using two 2-1 switches for the master and the alternators as follows: Master Switch Down EBUS: Closes circuit between battery bus and E-bus. Middle BATT: Only Battery bus is live. Up MAIN: Normal flight position, grounds contacter making Main bus live, E-bus is live via diode from Main. Alternator Switch Down BKUP: Grounds contactor making SD-8 backup live to battery. Middle OFF: No power source available. Up MAIN: Closes circuit between Main bus and main alternator field. To my thinking, this is plenty logical and user-friendly. In effect, these two would replace the following three switches in Z-13/8: 1. DC Power Master Switch (2-3) 2. E-Bus Alternate Feed (1-3) 3. Aux Alt Off/On (1-3) Questions: 1. Is this a bad idea in terms of failure exposure - does my risk go up by using fewer switches or by using 3-position switches? If so, the next three questions are largely moot. 2. Can it be done such that the first is BATT / EBUS / MAIN and the second is OFF / BKUP / MAIN such that fully down is off, fully up is normal, and middle is "Houston, we have a problem"? This is my first choice, but I haven't been able to work out a way to do it with any other 3-position switch that I'm aware of. If there is an Off-On-On like a 2-1 but with Off on bottom, that would do it, if there is some cool way to do it with a 2-10 I haven't conjured it. 3. I lose the ability to have both alternators plugging away at the battery at the same time, is this a bug or a feature? 4. I also lose the ability of having both the Main bus live, and the E-Bus live direct from the Battery bus w/o the attendant voltage drop from the diode. Again, bug or feature? Thanks in advance, George Jenson Tucson, AZ RV-7 standard build, fuselage underway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: Contactor
Date: Jan 31, 2007
They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. Has anyone tried one of them ? Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor > > > >>Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed >>contactor? > > In the normally closed contactor catalog. However, I'll > suggest it will be easier to find if you call it a "relay". > Contactors are generally in the class of double-make, high > current ( >50A ) switching devices. What you're looking for > is something rated on the order of 20A. The catalogs are > replete with examples not the least of which may be seen > at: > > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/1735-1738.pdf > > http://tinyurl.com/2jfse2 > > http://tinyurl.com/2jey84 > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Many big companies, and a few middle sized ones (that are in the process of failing) have a 'clean desk' policy. They say that our desks (and workspaces) are reflections of our minds, to which I say EXACTLY. Would we rather have a cluttered, messy desk with a lot of substance or an clean, organized desk devoid of content. Many companies and individuals value the latter, though there are not as many as there used to be, since a lot of them are out of business. Nonetheless, it can be said that they were very neat and orderly as they went bankrupt. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? --> >Hey Dave, > >Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the >"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you >finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but >'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your >location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare room >in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well. I've often suggested to my managers that resume's are way down on the list of useful things to see when considering a prospective new hire. I've always advised, "Go look at their workshop." Here are couple of shots of my downstairs shop. Got another "hammer-n-tongs" shop in the garage. Right next to the downstairs shop is the office with all the computers, printers, copy machine, and closet that houses the telephone and CAT5 networking hardware. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_2.jpg The second photo illustrates and experiment that I'm going to refine this summer. The shelves are low cost products from Sam's. The bins are plastic "shoe boxes" available about everywhere for about $1. I can't build a robust drawer/bin for a buck. The arrangement you see in the picture is not space efficient but it validated the idea. This summer, I'm going to have a grandson join me for a few days of making piles of sawdust (table saw is in upstairs shop) to build shelves specifically fitted to the shoe-box bins. My trusty AutoCAD drawing tells me that we'll fit 190 bins into the wall space presently occupied by the storage in the photo. I'll publish a picture of the finished project. If this works as planned, it will be repeated at work if and when I get the IR&D facility project launched. Does anyone else have examples of storage management solutions for that valuable junque? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . .
> > >Bob, I wish I had been there at Great Lakes when you were teaching. While >your insights into the world of techno-junkies is spot-on, the current crop >of managers have no clue. Unfortunately, today's technical managers as >stated by a previous poster come not from engineering backgrounds, but >accounting schools. >In addition to the bean counters not seeing the forest for the trees, there >are political forces at work in the manufacturing communities that mimic >"not invented here" mentality. . . . I've got tons of ideas, but won't waste them there. >Best of luck convincing the counters to nurture creative minds, but if you >weren't Bob Nuckolls, I'd call you Don Quixote! >Craig Smith While we could debate perceptions of cause-effect for your experiences, there's no arguing with the realities of what you went through. I'll agree that there's a whole lot of politics and kingdom-building that goes on in the trenches that most CEO's would be appalled to discover. I've worked in the trenches my whole career and avoided any invitations to move up the ladder because it would tend to isolate me from getting my hands dirty. My best hope for the current effort is that I have the ear and concurrence of our chief scientist. The goal is not to restructure anything that already exists. The IR&D facility will have to be a new facility completely off the campus so that we can have 18/7 access and no security issues. Further, the facility has to be available to ANYONE who demonstrates the ability and willingness to use it effectively. This might include WSU students, even some high school students. I've already got corporate support from companies outside Hawker-Beech and it will probably go forward with or without them. But without a doubt it will go forward faster and to the benefit of more folks if H-B participates. Starting it up fresh means their only commitment is for cash and mentorship. We get unhooked from a whole raft of bureaucratic, organizational and regulatory issues by moving it off the H-B campus. The interesting thing about this approach is that it steps on nobody's toes and demands nothing from anyone. The beneficiaries of this activity will participate voluntarily and on their own time. The "new" activity is a threat to nobody's kingdom and is not subject to plant politics. The cost is so low that few bean counters will take notice either. My chief scientist could sign a chit to commit $50K a year with nobody's permission needed. You're right, trying to do this from within the organization offers lots of windmills to get tangled up in. But now that we've shifted to an outside facility it all gets much simpler . . . and more hopeful. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question
> > > >Listers / Bob, > >I'm planning my electrical system (Z-13/8, Plane Power main alt) and panel >and want the switches and layout to be as simple and logical as possible. >I am considering using two 2-1 switches for the master and the alternators >as follows: > >Master Switch >Down EBUS: Closes circuit between battery bus and E-bus. >Middle BATT: Only Battery bus is live. >Up MAIN: Normal flight position, grounds contacter making Main bus live, >E-bus is live via diode from Main. > >Alternator Switch >Down BKUP: Grounds contactor making SD-8 backup live to battery. >Middle OFF: No power source available. >Up MAIN: Closes circuit between Main bus and main alternator field. > >To my thinking, this is plenty logical and user-friendly. In effect, these >two would replace the following three switches in Z-13/8: >1. DC Power Master Switch (2-3) >2. E-Bus Alternate Feed (1-3) >3. Aux Alt Off/On (1-3) > >Questions: >1. Is this a bad idea in terms of failure exposure - does my risk go up by >using fewer switches or by using 3-position switches? If so, the next >three questions are largely moot. Combined functions open opportunities for single failures of a switch to affect more than one function. Choose your combinations carefully. Also be aware that fewer switches is "simpler" but combined functionality is more "complex." >2. Can it be done such that the first is BATT / EBUS / MAIN and the second >is OFF / BKUP / MAIN such that fully down is off, fully up is normal, and >middle is "Houston, we have a problem"? This is my first choice, but I >haven't been able to work out a way to do it with any other 3-position >switch that I'm aware of. If there is an Off-On-On like a 2-1 but with Off >on bottom, that would do it, if there is some cool way to do it with a >2-10 I haven't conjured it. This could turn into a long debate as to the desirability of doing (or not doing) any particular thing. Keep in mind that the Z-figures have been combed for a number of years to keep the operation logical and produced an attractive failure mode effects analysis. While the switch panels illustrated to support Z-13/8 may have a lot of features, I've resisted efforts to combine functionality for systems other than cabin comfort, landing/taxi/wig-wag and other lighting. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Switch_Panels/Z13-30-ElexIgn.pdf >3. I lose the ability to have both alternators plugging away at the >battery at the same time, is this a bug or a feature? 13/8 is not intended to be run with two alternators. >4. I also lose the ability of having both the Main bus live, and the E-Bus >live direct from the Battery bus w/o the attendant voltage drop from the >diode. Again, bug or feature? What you propose will predictably function as you've suggested. Just be aware that the considerations for architecture and functionality goes deeper than numbers of switches and occupied panel space. Consider further that you'll no doubt want to sell this airplane at some future date. The more familiar your prospective customer is with the functionality of the controls, the better. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
> > > They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. > Has anyone tried one of them ? Yup. Turns out that any part designed to survive under the hood of a car is entirely suited for use in airplanes. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: George Jenson <george(at)georgejenson.com>
Subject: Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question
Bob, Thanks for the quick reply and solid logic. 1. I'll stick with the Z-13/8 as shown - losing one switch isn't worth gaining an unknown amount of risk and giving up being "more likely to be familiar" to a prospective future purchaser. 2. Thanks for the switch layout link - hadn't seen those and they are very useful. 3. You wrote: >13/8 is not intended to be run with two alternators. I was referring to the main alternator and the SD-8 backup as two alternators. Either that wasn't clear, or I mistakenly called it an alternator. I was basing that on B&C's description: >SD-8 Alternator >Click picture for description Spline-driven 8 AMP - 14 Volt power system >for mounting on vacuum pump pad. Price includes alternator assembly with >male spline and regulator (protrudes 4.75" from mounting surface.) Am I misunderstanding what you meant by 13/8 not having two alternators? In any case, as 13/8 appears, you could indeed have both the Main Alternator and the Backup SD-8 "whatever its called" both connected to the battery at once. I'm assuming this is OK but I was asking if it is necessary or beneficial? A better question would be under what circumstances would you want them both connected and charging? Thank you again for all you do, George Jenson Tucson, AZ RV-7 Std Build, fuselage underway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: Contactor
Date: Jan 31, 2007
That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I think I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy new when used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use relays to pick out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor > > > >> >> >> They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. >> Has anyone tried one of them ? > > Yup. Turns out that any part designed to survive under > the hood of a car is entirely suited for use in airplanes. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question
> > >Bob, > >>SD-8 Alternator >>Click picture for description Spline-driven 8 AMP - 14 Volt power system >>for mounting on vacuum pump pad. Price includes alternator assembly with >>male spline and regulator (protrudes 4.75" from mounting surface.) OOPS . . . a better word would have been OPERATED. >Am I misunderstanding what you meant by 13/8 not having two alternators? >In any case, as 13/8 appears, you could indeed have both the Main >Alternator and the Backup SD-8 "whatever its called" both connected to the >battery at once. I'm assuming this is OK but I was asking if it is >necessary or beneficial? A better question would be under what >circumstances would you want them both connected and charging? Your load analysis for NORMAL ops should be well satisfied by the main alternator. The standby alternator is to enhance ALT FAILED operations to support 8+ amps of E-bus loads indefinitely while en route. This saves 100% of battery charge in reserve for loads that exceed the SD-8 output during approach and landing. >Thank you again for all you do, My pleasure sir. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Contactor
> > > That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I > think I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy > new when used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use > relays to pick out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch. > >Randy Don't get wrapped around the "reliability" axle for ANY part selection. See chapter 17 for an expansion on the following idea: ANY PART can fail at any time irrespective of how many specs define it or Q.A. processes have tested it. EVERY PART has a service life . . . nothing runs forever. Therefore, whether you pick a relay out of your junque box in the shop or order it from Smiley Jack's High Dollar Parts Emporium, do not depend on that part to never fail. You do this by designing, maintaining and operating with a goal of achieving failure tolerance. Failure tolerance falls into two categories: (1) getting on the ground without it is problematic and could raise my blood pressure. (2) getting on the ground without it is no big deal and comfortable arrival at airport of intended destination is a breeze. If condition 1 applies, have a backup for it. Likelihood of two category 1 failures on any single tank of gas is pretty low . . . no matter how sleazy your parts supplier is. So, pick any part to use anywhere but with a plan-B designed into your system and operating procedures to cover a category 1 failure. A very reliable SYSTEM may be fabricated from rather mediocre parts. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
John and Kim Lumkes wrote: > The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a > handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What > opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and > only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country > (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both > with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of > external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for > a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS > (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the > radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already > might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. > Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM > is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible > in terms of future options or upgrades. > > Thanks, > John > Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete With the icom, be absolutely sure it will work on external power (read the actual manual) before purchase. I bought an A-4 on the assurance from the factory rep that it would work, only to find after I got it home that it will only charge the rechargable battery when power is supplied to the ext. jack(radio operation is disabled). Says so right in the manual, which I didn't read before purchase. Charlie Not a big fan of companies who make bad design decisions, then lie about them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
paul wilson wrote: > > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? > It's been a while, but I built a couple of headsets back when it made economic sense, and a portable intercom. They were well designed & easy for me to construct (I do have a bit of a history with a soldering iron). I enjoy electronic kits; you might not. I've still got a set of the headphones. When I got married, my wife commandeered the RST's over the choice of much more expensive ones & used them until we upgraded to active noise canceling ones. He was supposed to release a new design for an audio panel/intercom but I don't know if it's available yet. The old one (meaning 15 years ago) was a bit primitive in dealing with comm operation vs. intercom operation. These days, some stuff you just can't kit for less than it costs for a complete manufactured unit. Do your homework. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kesleyelectric" <kesleyelectric(at)chooseblue.coop>
Subject: Connecting hand-held to ships antenna
Date: Jan 31, 2007
Bob, I checked back in the articles archive and found one that described a small box fabricated from sheet brass for connecting a handheld to the com antenna. I liked this approach because if you keep the short length of coax attached to your handheld, all you have to do is pull it out and plug the connector into the dash mounted jack. To me this is easier than disconnecting and reconnecting a coax line. Does this jack disconnect the panel mounted comm from the antenna line when the plug from the handheld is inserted? Is this still an acceptable alternative, or is there a reason that you did not mention it? Thanks to all on your thoughts about great teachers we have been privileged to learn from. I have a few I need to find... Tom Barter Kesley, IA Avid Magnum (a work in progress) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Not familiar with the A24 but the previous model, the A22 will power externally quite happily and here Downunder, is commonly used as the main radio in our ultralight category ( similar to the advanced ultralight in Canada) without the battery attached. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios > > > John and Kim Lumkes wrote: >> The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a >> handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What >> opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and >> only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country >> (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both >> with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of >> external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a >> desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS >> (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the >> radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already >> might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. >> Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM >> is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible >> in terms of future options or upgrades. >> Thanks, >> John >> Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete > > With the icom, be absolutely sure it will work on external power (read the > actual manual) before purchase. > > I bought an A-4 on the assurance from the factory rep that it would work, > only to find after I got it home that it will only charge the rechargable > battery when power is supplied to the ext. jack(radio operation is > disabled). Says so right in the manual, which I didn't read before > purchase. > > Charlie > Not a big fan of companies who make bad design decisions, then lie about > them. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Settle <billsettle(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Date: Jan 31, 2007
John, I used to have a Luscombe 8E. I used a Garmin GPS/Com 190 Handheld as my only radio. It did not do that well until I connected it to the external antenna and onboard power. After that, it worked great. Never had a problem communicating with anyone. I could receive up to a couple of hundred miles and transmit up to about 60 miles if I was up around 8-10k. Bill Settle Winston-Salem, NC RV-8 Wings > > From: "John and Kim Lumkes" <lumkes(at)msoe.edu> > Date: 2007/01/31 Wed AM 09:14:42 EST > To: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios > > The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld > made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions > does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. > My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I > am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The > radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, > headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting > location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on > a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, > and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these > features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of > the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, > lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades. > > Thanks, > John > Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Connecting hand-held to ships antenna
Bob, I checked back in the articles archive and found one that described a small box fabricated from sheet brass for connecting a handheld to the com antenna. I liked this approach because if you keep the short length of coax attached to your handheld, all you have to do is pull it out and plug the connector into the dash mounted jack. To me this is easier than disconnecting and reconnecting a coax line. Does this jack disconnect the panel mounted comm from the antenna line when the plug from the handheld is inserted? Is this still an acceptable alternative, or is there a reason that you did not mention it? Yeah . . . in fact, I thought I'd pulled that article. Thanks for reminding me about it. I do want to take it down. THE problem is the kind of jack needed to achieve the automatic switching of antenna from panel mounted radio to the hand held as the hand-held's cable is plugged in. This is called a "closed circuit" jack and is the same style of connector that disconnects the speaker from a small radio when you plug in headphones. The potential for problems arises because signals for the panel mounted radio are carried across low pressure contacts that are not especially designed for longevity in the cockpit environment. Probability that the pilot will NEED to use the hand-held is probably lower than probability that corrosion in the closed circuit jack will make the panel mounted radio un-reliable or noisy. It's a case of not being able to make sure that the cure is not more lethal than the disease! Not everyone is REALLY good at building these jacks, especially the miniature ones. Breaking into the coax by opening BNC connectors is many times more robust than those little jacks. Had some fun putting that article together but in retrospect, it wasn't all that good an idea. The REALLY cool solution is a solid state relay (PIN diodes) but these take power to make them work . . . and the whole idea behind an antenna jack for hand helds is to service the hand-held radio even if power in the airplane is down completely. The other alternative is an antenna relay that is held energized by ship's power to keep the panel mounted radio serviced . . . and defaults to the hand-held's antenna jack when switched off or ship's power is down. In retrospect, since we are all (repeat after me) building failure tolerant electrical systems, perhaps the PIN diode switch is the best way to do the transfer. I'll think about it some more. In the mean time, breaking into the coax is really easy, cheap and super-robust. Thanks to all on your thoughts about great teachers we have been privileged to learn from. I have a few I need to find... Good luck! I hope you find them. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Ron Shannon <rshannon(at)cruzcom.com>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super. Ron paul wilson wrote: > > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
Date: Jan 31, 2007
1/31/2007 It will cost more and you won't have as much "roll your own satisfaction", but the IC-ANT-SB from ICOM is another way to skin this cat. See this web page. http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=19280&cat_id This has been mentioned previously on the list. Check with a local avionics shop to purchase or GOOGLE IC-ANT-SB for a catalog seller. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held >I want to split the signal from my COMM antenna so I can plug >in a handheld when necessary. Can you tell me what type of >splitter I need, and possibly where to find one? BandC doesn't >seem to carry them. The least expensive and most reliable means by which you can share the airplane's external antenna with a hand held is to route the COMM antenna cable through the cockpit such that a pair of connectors . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/crimpcf.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/s605cm.jpg come together within easy reach of the pilot. Coil up some excess length on the ANTENNA SIDE pigtail and make sure this piece of coax has the cable male connector on it. If the panel mounted radio becomes unavailable to you, open this joint and bring the antenna pigtail up to the hand held. You'll also find it useful to use TWO right angle adapters . . . http://tinyurl.com/2u3qzy . . . on the end of this pigtail. The coax can now pass up the back side of your hand held and make a 180-degree u-turn to mate with the radio's BNC connector at the top. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
I built one of his combined intercom/marker/audio panel kits about 23 years ago. It worked fine for the 15 years I owned the plane I installed it in. Probably needed the gain on the marker turned down a bit, other wise it performed 100% as advertised. > >> >> I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. >> www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
Do you know if his audio panel and the remote marker beacon receiver can be used in a certified aircraft? I assumed since he built his first one for his Cessna 170 that it was OK to have a non-TSO'ed audio panel, but I've been wondering because he doesn't mention anything either way on the web site. Dave Morris At 08:39 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote: > >I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is >well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super. > >Ron > > >paul wilson wrote: > > > > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. > www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
TSO is not required for Part 91 avionics, other than transponder and ELT. The kit was returned complete to RST for alignment and FCC certification, then returned to me. I had avionics shop install it in my C170B. No problem. Depending on FSDO, IA and whether they go along with Jim Weir's pronouncement that the audio panel is a minor modification. Dave N6030X wrote: > > > Do you know if his audio panel and the remote marker beacon receiver > can be used in a certified aircraft? I assumed since he built his > first one for his Cessna 170 that it was OK to have a non-TSO'ed audio > panel, but I've been wondering because he doesn't mention anything > either way on the web site. > > Dave Morris > > At 08:39 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote: >> >> >> I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is >> well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super. >> >> Ron >> >> >> paul wilson wrote: >> >> > >> > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. >> www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: <msteffensen(at)ups.com>
Bob, I am using your Dual Alt & Dual Buss setup in my RV10 with one mag (Left)and the lightspeed ignition system. I bought a switch from B&C it's a on and off switch, (2 terminal). I am confused on wiring the toggle switch. Based on your the diagrams, I belive that I install the switch with the keyway up and the wire runs between the switch (terminal 1) and MAG, the shielding is attached to the other terminal (#2) on the switch and a grounding screw on the MAG. As I understand, the MAG live when the switch in open and it's dead when the switch is to ground. Please advise as I don't want the MAG live when I think it's dead. Thanks....Mark Steffensen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
> >1/31/2007 > >It will cost more and you won't have as much "roll your own satisfaction", >but the IC-ANT-SB from ICOM is another way to skin this cat. See this web page. > >http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=19280&cat_id > >This has been mentioned previously on the list. Check with a local >avionics shop to purchase or GOOGLE IC-ANT-SB for a catalog seller. > >OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. You got that right! I'd forgotten about that product. Thanks for reminding me. I wish I knew more about how it works. I'm still a registered dealer with Edmo from my Micorair adventure of several years ago. That coupler is $60 dealer net. If anyone would like to try it, enter an order on my website at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Put "ANTENNA SWITCHBOX (IC-ANT-SB)" in the comments box at the bottom of the page. I'll get you one for costs. Let's see what this little critter does and how well it does it. Just the fact that it bears ICOM's label already bodes well . . . assuming they're still the company I knew 30 years ago as a supplier of exemplary ham radio equipment. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John and Kim Lumkes" <lumkes(at)msoe.edu>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Thank you everyone for the excellent feedback! I am reconsidering the NAV portion and may rethink a panel mount with dual frequency inputs if I think that I might be in busier airspace. If I had to purchase right now I think that I would stay with the plan to use a "mounted" handheld; there seems to be many satisfied people with this arrangement. I was already planning for a gps moving map and a handheld gps backup. Have a great day, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Milton Bland" <miltonbland(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Date: Feb 01, 2007
About a year ago I decided to "install" a handheld com radio in my Ercoupe. My decision was based on a friend who has dual Icom A3's in his Luscombe. I found a good deal on a new Vertex 210 Pilot. It worked great on the ground and ok in the air with the "rubber ducky" antenna. But range with that antenna was limited to about 5 miles or so. It had a SMA antenna fitting so I ordered an adapter and hooked up the old com antenna that was still on the airplane. That's when the problems really began. Everything seemed good on the ground but at about 150 feet in the air the radio would not break squelch. Also I picked up interference from FM radio stations, loud but not always clear. Basically the radio was useless in the air with the aircraft antenna. I called Vertex and they told me the radio was not engineered for use in an airplane! I asked them why their manual suggests otherwise and they told me that was a marketing error! So much for customer support. I now have an Icom A6 but I have not had an opportunity to try it in the air. I am hoping it will work as well as the old A3's. I have noticed the A3's seem to really hold their value on eBay. Maybe that is because they work well as a primary light sport radio. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
>About a year ago I decided to "install" a handheld com radio in my >Ercoupe. My decision was based on a friend who has dual Icom A3's in his >Luscombe. I found a good deal on a new Vertex 210 Pilot. It worked great >on the ground and ok in the air with the "rubber ducky" antenna. But >range with that antenna was limited to about 5 miles or so. It had a SMA >antenna fitting so I ordered an adapter and hooked up the old com antenna >that was still on the airplane. That's when the problems really >began. Everything seemed good on the ground but at about 150 feet in the >air the radio would not break squelch. Also I picked up interference from >FM radio stations, loud but not always clear. Basically the radio was >useless in the air with the aircraft antenna. I called Vertex and they >told me the radio was not engineered for use in an airplane! I asked them >why their manual suggests otherwise and they told me that was a marketing >error! So much for customer support. > >I now have an Icom A6 but I have not had an opportunity to try it in the >air. I am hoping it will work as well as the old A3's. I have noticed >the A3's seem to really hold their value on eBay. Maybe that is because >they work well as a primary light sport radio. ICOM has, in my estimation, been at the top of the mountain for technical excellence in radio manufacturing. The problem you were experiencing with FM stations on the other hand-held was due to inadequate control of band-pass filtering - keeping signals of no interest from getting into the receiver's vulnerable "front end". This is no mean task . . . especially in miniature radios. The FM broadcast band is located just below the aircraft band. The broadcast stations are on tall towers with effective radiated powers in the tens of kilowatts. Your stations of interest in aviation are all on short towers with ERP's in the tens of watts. So while the hand-held receiver is working diligently to decode microvolt intelligence, it has to contend with millivolt level antagonists located right next door. My experience with ICOM many years past is that they are demonstrated masters at controlling front end pass-band characteristics. I'll have to tell you guys about a "hidden transmitter hunt" I participated in about 25 years ago where only an ICOM receiver would do the job. If anyone has more recent experience that argues with this assessment, I'd be pleased to hear about it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch
> >Bob, > >I am using your Dual Alt & Dual Buss setup in my RV10 with one mag >(Left)and the lightspeed ignition system. I bought a switch from B&C >it's a on and off switch, (2 terminal). > >I am confused on wiring the toggle switch. > >Based on your the diagrams, I belive that I install the switch with the >keyway up and the wire runs between the switch (terminal 1) and MAG, the >shielding is attached to the other terminal (#2) on the switch and a >grounding screw on the MAG. > >As I understand, the MAG live when the switch in open and it's dead when >the switch is to ground. > >Please advise as I don't want the MAG live when I think it's dead. Yes . . . to turn OFF a magneto, you CLOSE a switch to make a connection that kills the mag. So check your switch with an ohmmeter and orient it in the panel such that it is CLOSED with the toggle in the down position. I didn't know B&C was selling any two-terminal switches. When I sold them that part of my business, I carried only the three-terminal, SPDT style switches so that ANY function could be achieved irrespective of the keyway position. This allowed a builder to install keyway lock washers all facing in the same direction. In this case, you MIGHT find that the switch you purchased will be "upside down" compared to other switches on the panel. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Handheld Radios
Good Morning John, I don't have one, but I do believe the newest I-Com has a flip flop frequency capability. My only recommendation would be to buy the double A battery pack as well as the pack with a more modern battery that can be recharged from ship's power. I think they still have that available. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 2/1/2007 8:19:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, lumkes(at)msoe.edu writes: Thank you everyone for the excellent feedback! I am reconsidering the NAV portion and may rethink a panel mount with dual frequency inputs if I think that I might be in busier airspace. If I had to purchase right now I think that I would stay with the plan to use a "mounted" handheld; there seems to be many satisfied people with this arrangement. I was already planning for a gps moving map and a handheld gps backup. Have a great day, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Subject: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
Good Morning All, I checked the I-Com web site and found that they do offer the flip/flop version. It is the IC-A6. Now, a question for the group! I-Com offers the following list of optional batteries. * BP-208N BATTERY CASE 6 =D7 AA (LR6) alkaline cells. * BP-209N BATTERY PACK Ni-Cd: 7.2V/1100mAh * BP-210N BATTERY PACK Ni-MH: 7.2V/1650mAh * BP-211N BATTERY PACK Li-Ion: 7.4V/1800mAh The case that has the capability of using six alkaline's is like one of the cases I have for my older I-Com. I am not sure which of the other three I have for the "permanent" battery case. Can anyone tell me what the advantag es and disadvantages are of the other battery styles? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
I'm looking to install an audio Isolation amp in my RV10, does anyone have a source? Thanks, Sam Marlow RV10 Wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
>Good Morning All, > >I checked the I-Com web site and found that they do offer the flip/flop >version. It is the IC-A6. > >Now, a question for the group! > >I-Com offers the following list of optional batteries. > > * BP-208N BATTERY CASE > * 6 AA (LR6) alkaline cells. > * BP-209N BATTERY PACK > * Ni-Cd: 7.2V/1100mAh > * BP-210N BATTERY PACK > * Ni-MH: 7.2V/1650mAh > * BP-211N BATTERY PACK > * Li-Ion: 7.4V/1800mAh >The case that has the capability of using six alkaline's is like one of >the cases I have for my older I-Com. I am not sure which of the other >three I have for the "permanent" battery case. Can anyone tell me what the >advantages and disadvantages are of the other battery styles? Depends on your goals. When I did the article at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf I was exploring the economics of AA-alkaline cells in various operating scenarios and brands of cells. Since I did that article, one may no purchase Ni-Mh cells with energy content in the ballpark with alkaline cells . . . 2200 mAh + The loose-cell battery pack offers some attractive features. (1) you can "renew" the cells from a variety of technologies and local sources. (2) you can choose to throw-away alkaline cells or recharge Ni-Mh cells. (3) the loose cell pack contains more energy for radio operation than any of the proprietary packs offered. Based on these features, I'll always go for the loose- cell pack when ever they're available. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
My understanding and part experience..... The NiCd battery pack can develop a memory based on partial discharge state. The 1800mAh pack will last longer and will take longer to charge. For my handheld, I have the largest mAh pack available and one of the packs that allows the use of alkaline batteries. Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com >Sent: Feb 1, 2007 11:36 AM >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: I-Com Radio and Battery packs > >Good Morning All, > >I checked the I-Com web site and found that they do offer the flip/flop >version. It is the IC-A6. > >Now, a question for the group! > >I-Com offers the following list of optional batteries. > > * BP-208N BATTERY CASE >6 AA (LR6) alkaline cells. > * BP-209N BATTERY PACK >Ni-Cd: 7.2V/1100mAh > * BP-210N BATTERY PACK >Ni-MH: 7.2V/1650mAh > * BP-211N BATTERY PACK >Li-Ion: 7.4V/1800mAh >The case that has the capability of using six alkaline's is like one of the >cases I have for my older I-Com. I am not sure which of the other three I >have for the "permanent" battery case. Can anyone tell me what the advantages >and disadvantages are of the other battery styles? > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob >AKA >Bob Siegfried >Ancient Aviator >Stearman N3977A >Brookeridge Air Park LL22 >Downers Grove, IL 60516 >630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: intercom & headset kits
Ron Shannon wrote: > >I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is >well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super. > >Ron > > > I'd like to emphasize what Ron said. If you read the manuals carefully as you build it, you'll finish with not only an intercom, but knowledge of exactly how it works. I built one last spring. I had some problems with incorrect parts, but Jim dealt with them personally. No company is perfect. It's how they deal with problems that seperate the sheep from the goats. I don't think you're going to find a better company to work with than RST. If you place any value on knowing how things work, or any pride in being able to say, "I built that", I don't think you will find any better value than RST's kits. >paul wilson wrote: > > >> >>I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? >> -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
> >I'm looking to install an audio Isolation amp in my RV10, does anyone have >a source? >Thanks, >Sam Marlow >RV10 Wiring You can build one. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Isolation_Amplifier.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Re: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Please forgive my technical English question but, what is exactly an "AUDIO ISOLATION AMP" ? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Marlow" <sam(at)fr8dog.net> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP > > I'm looking to install an audio Isolation amp in my RV10, does anyone have > a source? > Thanks, > Sam Marlow > RV10 Wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Morning All, > > I checked the I-Com web site and found that they do offer the > flip/flop version. It is the IC-A6. > > Now, a question for the group! > > I-Com offers the following list of optional batteries. > > > * *BP-208N* BATTERY CASE > 6 AA (LR6) alkaline cells. > * *BP-209N* BATTERY PACK > Ni-Cd: 7.2V/1100mAh > * *BP-210N* BATTERY PACK > Ni-MH: 7.2V/1650mAh > * *BP-211N* BATTERY PACK > Li-Ion: 7.4V/1800mAh > > The case that has the capability of using six alkaline's is like one > of the cases I have for my older I-Com. I am not sure which of the > other three I have for the "permanent" battery case. Can anyone tell > me what the advantages and disadvantages are of the other battery styles? > The first is the mAh ratings. The higher the number, the longer you can expect the battery to last. It will have more juice in it. The second is the type of battery. Alkaline cells have a long shelf life. Ni-Cd are rechargeable, but tend to leak down fairly fast. Ni-MH and Li-Ion, not so much. The other big differientator is cost. If you only plan to use the unit in case of emergency, go for the alkaline. If you're strapped for cash, go for the Ni-Cd, but be aware that you will be replacing them in two years or so. If you want to use it as a daily unit, spring for the Li-Ion. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil>
Bob - Nickel Cadmium (Ni-Cd) is the oldest of the three rechargeable technologies. It offers reasonable energy density, lower cost. It is capable of supplying higher currents (energy delivery) that the other chemistries (not an issue in HT radios). It's rather sensitive to overcharging /overheating, and has the highest leakage or idle-discharge rate (about 10% per month just sitting on the shelf). Nickel Metal Hydride is a newer technology, offers higher energy density than NiCd and (if memory serves) is more tolerant of over-charging. It's leakage rate is lower than Ni-Cd. Lower energy delivery capabilities than Ni-Cd (again, not an issue with handhelds). Costs more than Ni-Cd. Lithium-Ion is the newer of the three chemistries, offers the highest energy density, and the highest cost. I believe it has the lowest idle-discharge rate of the three. An example - My cordless drill came with NiCd batteries and a charger placarded as compatible with either NiCd or NiMh. NiCd batteries are probably best for folks who would use the drill a lot every day, but I may go weeks between small projects that entail 5 or 6 screws. The original batteries lasted less than a year, and were often all but dead when I needed it for the occasional household project. I rebuilt the battery packs with NiMh cells from AllBattery.com four years ago and it still performs very well. It won't deliver the torque that it did with the NiCd batteries, but it has a much better shelf-life. Neal RV-7 N8ZG (wiring - again) Navarre, FL I-Com offers the following list of optional batteries. * BP-208N BATTERY CASE 6 AA (LR6) alkaline cells. * BP-209N BATTERY PACK Ni-Cd: 7.2V/1100mAh * BP-210N BATTERY PACK Ni-MH: 7.2V/1650mAh * BP-211N BATTERY PACK Li-Ion: 7.4V/1800mAh The case that has the capability of using six alkaline's is like one of the cases I have for my older I-Com. I am not sure which of the other three I have for the "permanent" battery case. Can anyone tell me what the advantages and disadvantages are of the other battery styles? Happy Skies, Old Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
Man, was that a nice setup, or what. At 11:34 AM 2/1/2007, you wrote: > > > >> >>I'm looking to install an audio Isolation amp in my RV10, does >>anyone have a source? >>Thanks, >>Sam Marlow >>RV10 Wiring > > > You can build one. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Isolation_Amplifier.pdf > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: <msteffensen(at)ups.com>
Bob, Do I need to take one of the terminals of the switch to a firewall ground so that when the switch in open the MAG is grounded and when the switch is closed the MAG is not grounded or does the switch have this function without taking a terminal to a grounding point? Subject: Re: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckollsr(at)cox.net) Date: Thu Feb 01 - 7:31 AM > >Bob, > >I am using your Dual Alt & Dual Buss setup in my RV10 with one mag >(Left)and the lightspeed ignition system. I bought a switch from B&C >it's a on and off switch, (2 terminal). > >I am confused on wiring the toggle switch. > >Based on your the diagrams, I belive that I install the switch with the >keyway up and the wire runs between the switch (terminal 1) and MAG, the >shielding is attached to the other terminal (#2) on the switch and a >grounding screw on the MAG. > >As I understand, the MAG live when the switch in open and it's dead when >the switch is to ground. > >Please advise as I don't want the MAG live when I think it's dead. Yes . . . to turn OFF a magneto, you CLOSE a switch to make a connection that kills the mag. So check your switch with an ohmmeter and orient it in the panel such that it is CLOSED with the toggle in the down position. I didn't know B&C was selling any two-terminal switches. When I sold them that part of my business, I carried only the three-terminal, SPDT style switches so that ANY function could be achieved irrespective of the keyway position. This allowed a builder to install keyway lock washers all facing in the same direction. In this case, you MIGHT find that the switch you purchased will be "upside down" compared to other switches on the panel. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch
> >Bob, > >Do I need to take one of the terminals of the switch to a firewall >ground so that when the switch in open the MAG is grounded and when the >switch is closed the MAG is not grounded or does the switch have this >function without taking a terminal to a grounding point? You wire it per the diagrams where p-lead shields are grounded to the mag or engine under the cowl. The switch USES the shield to provide a ground at the panel. The diagram is explicit as to how shields are handled and grounds supplied. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
> > >Please forgive my technical English question but, what is exactly an >"AUDIO ISOLATION AMP" ? > >Carlos See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
Subject: Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
Date: Feb 01, 2007
hi all, an easy, quick, and fairly cheap way to build shelving goes like this; both ends of plywood shelves are supported by a ''ladder like'' thing you can build out of 2x4's. one of these ladders must be firmly anchored to a wall or something. the other ladder should at least be anchored top or bottom. now put in your shelves , lying on the ''rungs'' of the ladders. the shelves are about as stiff as wet noodles like this. here's the time and money saver; cut pieces of 2x4 or even 2x2 the length of the distance between shelves. start on the floor and slip the pieces of 2x4 between the shelves going up and keeping each piece over the one below it. as many as needed to keep your shelves stiff. this is by far the most brainlessly easy way to make strong shelves. i have rows of them in the storage end of my basement. bob noffs ----- Original M essage ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? > > > >>Hey Dave, >> >>Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the >>"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you >>finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but >>'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your >>location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare room >>in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well. > > > I've often suggested to my managers that resume's are way > down on the list of useful things to see when considering > a prospective new hire. I've always advised, "Go look at > their workshop." > > Here are couple of shots of my downstairs shop. Got > another "hammer-n-tongs" shop in the garage. Right > next to the downstairs shop is the office with all > the computers, printers, copy machine, and closet > that houses the telephone and CAT5 networking hardware. > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_2.jpg > > The second photo illustrates and experiment that I'm > going to refine this summer. The shelves are low cost > products from Sam's. The bins are plastic "shoe boxes" > available about everywhere for about $1. I can't build > a robust drawer/bin for a buck. > > The arrangement you see in the picture is not space > efficient but it validated the idea. This summer, I'm > going to have a grandson join me for a few days of > making piles of sawdust (table saw is in upstairs shop) > to build shelves specifically fitted to the shoe-box > bins. My trusty AutoCAD drawing tells me that we'll > fit 190 bins into the wall space presently occupied > by the storage in the photo. I'll publish a picture > of the finished project. > > If this works as planned, it will be repeated at > work if and when I get the IR&D facility project launched. > Does anyone else have examples of storage management > solutions for that valuable junque? > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Subject: Re: RE: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
No 'grounding' of the mag system is required. Closing the mag switch causes one end of the p-lead winding to be connected to the other end of the p-lead winding (in a slightly roundabout way) which disables the magneto from sparking.. From the standpoint of wiring the switch, it's only a bit of a coincidence that one end of the p-lead winding is also connected to the magneto body which is bolted to the engine case which on most airplanes is known as 'ground'.. So, the closed switch should connect the p-lead (the 'free end' of the 'primary' winding) to the body of the magneto. No additional connections required. And, this method of wiring offers the lowest risk of p-lead noise to other electronics in the airplane.. Regards, Matt- > > Bob, > > Do I need to take one of the terminals of the switch to a firewall > ground so that when the switch in open the MAG is grounded and when the > switch is closed the MAG is not grounded or does the switch have this > function without taking a terminal to a grounding point? > > > Subject: Re: Wiring a MAG Toggle Switch > From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckollsr(at)cox.net) > Date: Thu Feb 01 - 7:31 AM > > >> >>Bob, >> >>I am using your Dual Alt & Dual Buss setup in my RV10 with one mag >>(Left)and the lightspeed ignition system. I bought a switch from B&C >>it's a on and off switch, (2 terminal). >> >>I am confused on wiring the toggle switch. >> >>Based on your the diagrams, I belive that I install the switch with the >>keyway up and the wire runs between the switch (terminal 1) and MAG, > the >>shielding is attached to the other terminal (#2) on the switch and a >>grounding screw on the MAG. >> >>As I understand, the MAG live when the switch in open and it's dead > when >>the switch is to ground. >> >>Please advise as I don't want the MAG live when I think it's dead. > > Yes . . . to turn OFF a magneto, you CLOSE a switch to make > a connection that kills the mag. > > So check your switch with an ohmmeter and orient it in > the panel such that it is CLOSED with the toggle in the > down position. > > I didn't know B&C was selling any two-terminal switches. > When I sold them that part of my business, I carried only > the three-terminal, SPDT style switches so that ANY function > could be achieved irrespective of the keyway position. This > allowed a builder to install keyway lock washers all facing in > the same direction. In this case, you MIGHT find that the > switch you purchased will be "upside down" compared to other > switches on the panel. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
Bob, Now you are confusing us! In one email you say that this method of switching from the internal radio to the handheld is not so good and you are going to take it off your web site and the next email you are saying that the one ICOM has their name on seems a viable option and offer to sell it to anyone who wants one. What gives??? This product does exactly what the one on your web site does! Confused... Dick Tasker Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> >> 1/31/2007 >> >> It will cost more and you won't have as much "roll your own >> satisfaction", but the IC-ANT-SB from ICOM is another way to skin >> this cat. See this web page. >> >> http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=19280&cat_id= >> >> >> This has been mentioned previously on the list. Check with a local >> avionics shop to purchase or GOOGLE IC-ANT-SB for a catalog seller. >> >> OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. > > > You got that right! I'd forgotten about that product. > Thanks for reminding me. > > I wish I knew more about how it works. I'm still a registered > dealer with Edmo from my Micorair adventure of several years > ago. That coupler is $60 dealer net. If anyone would like to > try it, enter an order on my website at: > > http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html > > Put "ANTENNA SWITCHBOX (IC-ANT-SB)" in the comments box > at the bottom of the page. I'll get you one for costs. > Let's see what this little critter does and how well > it does it. Just the fact that it bears ICOM's label already > bodes well . . . assuming they're still the company I > knew 30 years ago as a supplier of exemplary ham radio > equipment. > > Bob . . . > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
In a message dated 2/1/2007 1:37:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, icubob(at)newnorth.net writes: start on the floor and slip the pieces of 2x4 between the shelves going up and keeping each piece over the one below it. as many as needed to keep your shelves stiff. this is by far the most brainlessly easy way to make strong shelves. I have rows of them in the storage end of my basement. bob noffs Good Evening Bob, Any dimensions on the thickness of the plywood, quality used and placement of the braces? Any photos available? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: I-Com Radio and Battery packs
A follow-up on rechargeable, specifically Ni-Cad cells. I dug through some materials I've captured off the 'net written by "Mr. Battery" hisself, Isador Buchmann. Here's an excerpt from his book on batteries. http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Ni-Cd_Memory.pdf Do a Google search on this guy . . . he's done a lot of good work and is graciously willing to share. I spent some time talking with him on the phone several years ago. During that conversation he told me that any of his work found in the wild on the 'net could be passed on to you folks. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Verwey" <bonanza(at)vodamail.co.za>
Subject: intercom & headset kits
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Paul, I'm particularly interested in the functionality of the 4 place intercom and the squelch settings. What has been your experience with this aspect? Bob Verwey A35 Bonanza -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: 01 Feb 2007 07:25 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: intercom & headset kits --> Ron Shannon wrote: >--> > >I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is >well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super. > >Ron > > > I'd like to emphasize what Ron said. If you read the manuals carefully as you build it, you'll finish with not only an intercom, but knowledge of exactly how it works. I built one last spring. I had some problems with incorrect parts, but Jim dealt with them personally. No company is perfect. It's how they deal with problems that seperate the sheep from the goats. I don't think you're going to find a better company to work with than RST. If you place any value on knowing how things work, or any pride in being able to say, "I built that", I don't think you will find any better value than RST's kits. >paul wilson wrote: > > >>--> >> >>I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them? >> -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
Subject: Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
Date: Feb 02, 2007
hi bob s. the plywood could be waferboard, i would go 5/8''. the end braces are 2x4. the ''rungs'' i screwed in place for strength. the uprights need only be 2x2 and take up so little room just put them as often as needed to prevent sag. always start on the floor and keep each 2x2 above the one below it. i make shelves 8 foot long. put the 2x2's in as often as needed, depending on the load. anchoring one or both ladders is the key to the shelfs stability. maybe i can take a few pics in the next few days. your address? bob noffs ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 5:46 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? In a message dated 2/1/2007 1:37:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, icubob(at)newnorth.net writes: start on the floor and slip the pieces of 2x4 between the shelves going up and keeping each piece over the one below it. as many as needed to keep your shelves stiff. this is by far the most brainlessly easy way to make strong shelves. I have rows of them in the storage end of my basement. bob noffs Good Evening Bob, Any dimensions on the thickness of the plywood, quality used and placement of the braces? Any photos available? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: AUDIO ISOLATION AMP
Carlos, Google "summing amplifier". A summing amplifier allows weighted addition of signals with the signal sources not affected by the addition - they each see a constant load resistance. Jan de Jong ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
> > >Bob, Now you are confusing us! In one email you say that this method of >switching from the internal radio to the handheld is not so good and you >are going to take it off your web site and the next email you are saying >that the one ICOM has their name on seems a viable option and offer to >sell it to anyone who wants one. What gives??? This product does exactly >what the one on your web site does! > >Confused... > >Dick Tasker They have the same end function and even perhaps identical implementation. The design I proposed depended on a miniature, closed-circuit headset jack acquired from local parts sources. The "closed circuit" switch in the jack is always in series with the antenna lead from the panel mounted radio. It represents a risk to operability of the panel mounted radio whether or not one ever uses the jack to connect the hand held. Because this is an ICOM product, I'm presuming/hoping/wishing that they've acquired a source for a more robust connector than what most of us can buy locally. About a dozen folks have requested this product and I've only ordered 5! But before I ship any of them, I'll take one apart and look it over. Photos and a tear down report will be published on my website. We could consider a DIY project perhaps based on a jack from Switchcraft . . . if a "robust" version of that device exists, probability is high that Switchcraft makes it. Alternatively, I'm mulling over a design that makes use of a miniature, sealed relay who's normally closed contacts do not pose so high a risk to functionality of the panel mounted radio as the design I proposed originally. The article I published wasn't the best-we-know-how- to-do and needed to be replaced or refined. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net>
Subject: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. _____ From: AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org [mailto:AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:01 AM Subject: ePilot: Talking user fees with media; most beautiful plane Having trouble viewing this ePilot? View <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/2007/070202epilot.html> it online. To ensure that you continue to receive this newsletter, please add AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org to your address book. <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/masthead.jpg> Volume 9, Issue 5 . February 2, 2007 In this issue: NRC leaves aviation regulation up to <> FAA When airline flight <> deck calls, private pilot answers AOPA works to ensure fairness in TV <> security story This ePilot is sponsored by <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10518> Sponsored by Mooney Aircraft Company Advertisers <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10519> Bose Aviation Headsets <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10520> AeroShell <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10521> Garmin International <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10522> Airline Transport Professionals <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10523> King Schools <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10524> Pilot Insurance Center <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10525> JP Instruments <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10526> Jeppesen <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10527> AOPA Credit Card <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10528> Scheyden Eyewear <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10529> Minnesota Life Insurance <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10530> AOPA Aircraft Financing Got news? Contact ePilot. Having difficulty using this service? Visit the ePilot Frequently Asked Questions now at AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/faq.html> Online or write to epilot(at)aopa.org. 421 Aviation Way Frederick, MD 21701 Tel: 800/USA-AOPA or 301/695-2000 Copyright C 2007 AOPA. GA News AOPA TELLS REPORTERS WHAT TO WATCH FOR IN USER FEES <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202pressConf.jpg> The Bush administration won't have a chance to obscure the issue of aviation user fees in the president's upcoming budget submission to Congress. That's because AOPA took a preemptive strike, briefing key reporters in the nation's capital about how to find the secrets in the budget when it is made public on February 5. "The administration is manufacturing an FAA 'funding crisis' in a smoke-and-mirrors attempt to divert attention away from the real issue-the need to address the problems that constrain capacity, efficiency, and new technology adoption," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "They are attempting an end-around of Congress to put the world's safest, most efficient, and largest air traffic control system into the hands of airline barons who've flown their own businesses into bankruptcy," Boyer said at the National Press Club on Thursday. And taking Congress out of the mix would be a very bad idea, according to Ken Mead, the former Department of Transportation inspector general who joined Boyer at the podium. "You need the checks and balances of the U.S. Congress," said Mead. See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201briefing.html> Online. NRC LEAVES AVIATION REGULATION UP TO FAA The Nuclear Regulatory Commission this week announced new security requirements for nuclear power plants, but it did not overstep its jurisdiction by trying to regulate aviation. In fact, it specifically said the FAA and military were charged with addressing the possibility of airborne attacks. "We continue to work with Congress, the FAA, Department of Defense, and other government agencies to show that general aviation does not pose a threat to nuclear power plants," said Andy Cebula, AOPA executive vice president of government affairs. A 2002 <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2002/02-2-159_report.pdf> report commissioned by AOPA revealed that GA aircraft couldn't penetrate the concrete containment area around nuclear power plants or cause the release of radiation. In 2004, the Government Accountability Office released its own report, pointing out that nuclear power plants were designed to withstand an accident involving an airliner. See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070131nrc.html> Online. FAA PROPOSES TO CHANGE AGE-60 RULE FAA Administrator Marion Blakey announced January 30 that the agency would soon be writing rules to move the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots from 60 to 65. The proposed rule change would parallel international standards, requiring one crewmember to be younger than 60 with an older-than-60 pilot in the cockpit. "While this rule doesn't directly affect pilots flying general aviation aircraft, we've always followed the issue closely because of our concern about any age discrimination against pilots," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "We all recognize that older pilots-airline or GA-can have skills that surpass younger pilots because of their flight hours and experience. We hope that this will also be recognized by the insurance community and others who place penalties on older GA pilots." And to help establish-once and for all-that age is not a pathology, the AOPA Air Safety Foundation is about to start a yearlong study-with the help of a major recognized research institution-to determine exactly how age affects airmanship and safety. See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070130age60.html> Online. FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS Think your portable GPS would work great mounted to your old Cessna 172's instrument panel? If the FAA has its way, you won't be able to mount it. The parts-panel dock and connective wiring-needed to mount your portable GPS would either no longer be available or be too expensive to buy. The FAA's proposal would make it illegal for manufacturers to produce a replacement or modification part if they know (or should know) the part would end up installed in a certified aircraft-that is unless they obtain production approval from the agency. But that costs tens of thousands of dollars, something many companies can't afford. While AOPA agrees production approval is necessary for critical parts like connecting rods and cylinders, it isn't needed for non-critical parts like a portable GPS panel dock or traffic detector that enhance pilot safety. See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201parts.html> Online. BRS EYES BIGGER AIRPLANES FOR AIRFRAME PARACHUTES Ballistic Recovery Systems (BRS) says it has conducted a series of successful development tests for airframe parachutes designed to handle heavier loads and higher speeds. BRS has long talked about expanding its product line to increase the number of aircraft that can utilize the safety feature, including very light jets. The tests were conducted in the Southwest using a former military aircraft to perform drop tests. The company's new sewing facility in Tijuana, Mexico, produced the test canopies. Final assembly and engineering takes place in St. Paul, Minnesota. BRS has delivered more than 25,000 parachutes since beginning operations in 1981. More than 3,000 of the company's systems are flying on certified aircraft. LIBERTY GOES AFTER TIGER, SYMPHONY CUSTOMERS <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202liberty.jpg> With the demise of Tiger and Symphony aircraft companies, Liberty <http://www.libertyaerospace.com> Aerospace has taken the unusual step of honoring customer deposits from the two aforementioned companies. Liberty says it will honor up to $10,000 toward the purchase of an XL2, provided the customer can provide proof of the previous deposit. "This opportunity is being offered for a limited time and is dependent on market response," according to a Liberty news release. WHEN THE AIRLINE FLIGHT DECK CALLS, PRIVATE PILOT ANSWERS It's a safe bet that most private pilots will never be asked to help out on the flight deck of a Boeing 757 airliner during an actual in-flight emergency. But that's exactly what happened to pilot Stephen W. Brown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. He was traveling on a commercial flight from Houston to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, on January 24 when the captain became incapacitated and later died. In <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10541> a recent interview, Brown told AOPA ePilot that his "once-in-a-lifetime event" offers lessons to other pilots who might someday find themselves in the front office of an advanced cockpit. VLJ SHOW SET FOR MARCH 2 If you'd like to experience the entire very light jet (VLJ) segment of the industry in one day, check out the Future <http://www.flyjetpool.com/vlj.html> of Business Aviation Very Light Jet Show on March 2 in Charlotte, North Carolina. Cessna, Eclipse, Spectrum, Embraer, Adam, Honda, and Diamond will all be exhibiting. Also, there will seminars on the following topics: VLJ 101, insurance, legal issues, taxes, and financing. The event is presented by Jetpool, an aviation management company. MIKE GOULIAN WINS PRESTIGIOUS AIRSHOW AWARD Airshow performer and aerobatic competitor Mike Goulian has won the prestigious 2006 Art Scholl Showmanship Award. It is presented each year by the International Council of Airshows to performers who go beyond high-G maneuvers. Goulian is known for his passion for aviation and giving back to the industry through flight training and other endeavors. The award is given in honor of Art Scholl, the consummate airshow performer and motion picture stunt pilot. WORLD'S MOST BEAUTIFUL AIRPLANE What's the most beautiful airplane you've ever seen? Help us out with our latest <http://www.aopa.org/members/survey/full_survey.cfm?id=156> online survey. The results will appear in an upcoming issue of AOPA Pilot magazine in the "Pilot Briefing" section. For daily news updates, see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/members> Online. Inside AOPA <http://www.aopaia.com/renterinsurance> AOPA WORKS TO ENSURE FAIRNESS IN TV SECURITY STORY When AOPA's media relations department learned that KHOU-TV, the CBS affiliate in Houston, Texas, was preparing a story on assumed gaps in security at local general aviation airports, staff members contacted the 11 News Investigates team. The story was scheduled to air February 1. "We can't control the outcome, but we can be sure the reporter has all the relevant facts in hand," said AOPA Media Relations Director Chris Dancy. "In this case, we made sure the reporter knew about AOPA's <http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/> Airport Watch and all the other GA security enhancements that have been put in place since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks." See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/> Online. JOY OF FLIGHT: LITTLE FIELD BRINGS FATHER, SON TOGETHER R. Rollie Rankin didn't get to see his son very often, and when he did, those visits tended to be awkward. But a happenstance stop at a tiny mountaintop airfield changed that. Find out how an ordinary gentlemen with a yellow taildragger gave the two what they needed to get their relationship on the right track in "Little <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10539> field brings father, son together," the latest installment of the Joy of Flight. Who knows, you could be that ordinary pilot who sparks an extraordinary change in someone else's life...just by doing what you love-flying. To submit a story about GA adventures, please send us an e-mail. Past articles are available <http://www.aopa.org/members/joyofflight/> online. Expert Advice TAX TIME: CAN YOU GET A DEDUCTION FOR FLYING? The W-2s have been mailed, and we are in the midst of tax season. While you're looking for deductions, consider your aircraft. Have you used it for business purposes? AOPA's "Pilot's <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/guides/tax_guide.html> Guide to Taxes" serves as a starting point for aircraft owners looking for deductions and as a guide to working with a tax advisor. FIND OUT IF YOUR FLYING CLUB CAN BECOME TAX EXEMPT Are you involved in a flying club? Read <http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/ac/flyingclubs/taxes.html> up on the qualifications for tax exempt status. An exemption may be granted when a club is "organized and operated exclusively for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofit purposes." Just having nonprofit status does not automatically exempt your club from submitting a federal income tax return. Check out the Application <http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id'122,00.html> for Recognition of Exemption section of the Internal Revenue Service Web site for information on how to get started. AOPA recommends walking through this process with your tax advisor. AOPA Air Safety Foundation News ARE YOU CONNECTED? LEARN ABOUT DATALINK Datalink is the latest technology bringing digital weather and traffic information to general aviation cockpits. Learn how this new technology works-and how you can use it safely in the cockpit-with the AOPA Air Safety Foundation's 30-minute online minicourse, Datalink <http://www.asf.org/datalink> . Simply stated, datalink uses satellites and ground stations to send wireless signals to a receiver on properly equipped aircraft; the information from those signals can be displayed on a GPS screen, multifunction display, or personal digital assistant. Datalink weather information includes radar, satellite, text, severe weather warnings, and more. Traffic and airspace information, like temporary flight restrictions, also help increase pilots' situational awareness in the cockpit. GIVE BRAKING ACTION REPORTS A SQUEEZE Ever tuned in the ATIS at the airport only to hear "...braking action fair" and wondered exactly what it meant? The AOPA Air Safety Foundation's Safety Brief <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/SB03.pdf> Braking Action Reports highlights one of the hazards of winter flying-taxiways and runways covered in snow, ice, and slush. In this Safety Brief, learn about braking action and listen to actual recorded examples of ATIS braking action reports. COLD HARD FACTS ON WING CONTAMINATION If you're learning to fly in colder parts of the country, you've probably learned that an essential part of preflight is to clean the wings of snow, frost, or ice. During the last 10 years, there have been more than 30 accidents that occurred on takeoff because the airplane's wings were contaminated. As a result of these accidents, the NTSB mailed all pilots an alert letter urging them to look at and feel the aircraft's wings during preflight to ensure no ice is present. The AOPA Air Safety Foundation's <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/SB02.pdf> Cold Facts: Wing Contamination Safety Brief offers suggestions for simple preflight steps that can easily prevent these kinds of accidents. Quiz Me Here's a question asked by an AOPA member who contacted our aviation services staff through the AOPA Pilot Information Center. Test your knowledge. Question: I recently had to deviate from an ATC clearance to handle an in-flight emergency involving an electrical short circuit. Must I notify the FAA? Answer: The only time you are required <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/fars/far-91.html#14:2.0.1.3.10.2.4.12> to notify the FAA of an in-flight deviation is when it specifically requests it. Additionally, FAR 91.3 states the following: "In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. The pilot in command may still be investigated by the FAA for any infraction contrary to the regulations, but the emergency will be a mitigating circumstance. For more insight, review the online AOPA article, "Legal <http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=4161> Briefing-Reporting Emergencies," and the AOPA Air Safety Foundation's interactive online safety course, Say <http://flash.aopa.org/asf/sayIntentions/> Intentions. <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/ac150-5220-16c.pdf> Got a question for our aviation services staff? The AOPA Pilot Information Center is is at your service. Call toll-free 800/872-2672 to speak to a specialist about any general aviation topic. Or e-mail to pilotassist(at)aopa.org. Send comments on our Quiz Me! questions to epilot(at)aopa.org. Picture Perfect Looking for some really fabulous aviation photography? All the air-to-air photos and beautifully detailed ground images used by AOPA Pilot magazine over the years are yours at the click of a mouse button. Download your favorite images to use for wallpaper, send an e-postcard, or order prints online. For more details, see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10532> Online. Catch-A-Cardinal Sweepstakes Update <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202sweeps.jpg> Every sweepstakes project starts with a little deconstruction. This week we <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10538> really get into the guts of the matter. Technicians are disassembling the Cardinal to see what lurks inside. It's a challenge for sure, but we want to rebuild your airplane just right. Follow along as this bird's wings get removed in preparation for all of the exciting enhancements on the horizon. AOPA Career Opportunity Are you one of the industry's recognized leaders in public relations? If so, you should know that we are looking to create a new role of Vice President of Public Relations. The ideal candidate is an experienced communications professional with strong public and media relations, issues management, and crisis communications skills. This person should be a respected leader with a long track record of success. Learn more about this opportunity on AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10540> Online. Weekend Weather <http://www.aopa.org/images/epilot/weather_icon.jpg> SOUTH CENTRAL FORECAST Flying Forecast: A widespread area of MVFR to IFR ceilings and snows will begin on Friday over the OK and TX panhandles. During the afternoon and into the evening, this area is expected to expand to the east-south and ride along the Red River Valley and eastward into AR and northern LA. By Friday evening, high pressure will wedge back over the area, drawing much of the precipitation to a close. Much of the region should be VFR for the start of Saturday, aside from a few light MVFR snow showers dropping south out of NE and into KS and MO. Throughout the evening and into the start of Sunday, periods of MVFR snows will be found draping west out of the Tennessee Valley and over the southern tier of MO and into northern AR. A few lingering snow showers are expected to remain over KS and MO into the later hours of Sunday, but much of the accumulations should remain in the trace to inch category. See the current weather on AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10533> Online, provided by Meteorlogix. ePilot Calendar UPCOMING FLYING DESTINATIONS: Novi, MI. The Great Lakes Aviation Conference takes place February 2 and 3 at the Rock Financial Showplace. Now entering its seventh year, this is the most comprehensive aviation event of its kind. With more than 100 breakout sessions and exhibits, the GLIAC has something for everyone. Contact Todd Smith, 248/348-6942, or visit the Web <http://www.GreatLakesAviationConference.com> site. <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/destinations.jpg> UPCOMING FLYING DESTINATIONS IN THE SOUTHWEST REGION: McKinney, TX. An EAA Chapter 1246 Homebuilders Display takes place February 8 at Collin County Community College. Contact Bob Rogers, 972/761-2280. To submit <http://www.aopa.org/pilot/calendar/addcal.cfm> an event to the calendar or to search <http://www.aopa.org/pilot/calendar> all events visit AOPA Online. For airport details, see AOPA's <http://www.aopa.org/members/airports> Airport Directory Online. FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR REFRESHER CLINICS The next AOPA Air Safety Foundation Flight Instructor Refresher Clinics are scheduled in Sacramento, CA, Louisville, KY, and Ashburn, VA, February 10 and 11. Clinics are also scheduled in Melbourne, FL, Baton Rouge, LA, and Dallas, February 17 and 18. For a complete schedule, see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/idxfirc.html> Online. Can't make it in person? Sign up for the CFI <http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/cfi_renewal_online.html> Refresher Online. AOPA AIR SAFETY FOUNDATION SAFETY SEMINARS AOPA Air Safety Foundation Safety Seminars are scheduled in Little Rock, AR, Ocala, FL, and Atlanta, February 5; Fayetteville, AR, Northglenn, CO, Tampa, FL, and Maryville, TN, February 6; Colorado Springs, CO, Melbourne, FL, Oklahoma City, and Nashville, TN, February 7; and Lake Worth, FL, Wichita, KS, and Germantown, TN, February 8. The topic is "Say It Right! Radio Communications in Today's Airspace." For details and a complete schedule, see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/asf/seminars/seminar.cfm> Online. _____ This issue of ePilot was created for GIFFEN MARR at GAMARR(at)CHARTER.NET Member Tools: Editorial Team: * Send feedback * Update <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10534> member profile * Change e-mail address * Unsubscribe * ePilot <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/> archive * Managing Editor: Nate Ferguson * Assistant Editor: Alyssa Miller * Contributors: Warren Morningstar and Alton Marsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances in safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, by, and for the people"? Dave Morris At 10:14 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. > > >---------- > >---------- >FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS >Think your portable GPS would work great mounted >to your old Cessna 172's instrument panel? If >the FAA has its way, you won't be able to mount >it. The partspanel dock and connective >wiringneeded to mount your portable GPS would >either no longer be available or be too >expensive to buy. The FAA's proposal would make >it illegal for manufacturers to produce a >replacement or modification part if they know >(or should know) the part would end up installed >in a certified aircraftthat is unless they >obtain production approval from the agency. But >that costs tens of thousands of dollars, >something many companies can't afford. While >AOPA agrees production approval is necessary for >critical parts like connecting rods and >cylinders, it isn't needed for non-critical >parts like a portable GPS panel dock or traffic >detector that enhance pilot safety. See ><http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201parts.html>AOPA Online. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS In that case please designate us as "Reble Underground Manufacturers" and we'll fabricate the parts, we will designate them "For Lawn Tractor Use Only" ...Chrissi CG Products _CGParts(at)aol.com_ (mailto:CGParts(at)aol.com) www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS At an airshow we talked to several military pilots, due to the slow grind at getting quality upgrades it had become common for them to home brew their own. The industry innovates and outpaces the approval and implimentation process so much that it should be standard to just have blank panel area available with a robust power supply (read that as bloody fool proof) and let them have at it. As long as it does not interfere with anything and cannot bring the system power down whats the difference between an MP3 player and a GPS?.. its non of anybody else's business. ...Chrissi CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS Opps, spell that "Rebel" , not enough caffeen yet CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wgill10(at)comcast.net
Subject: RS232 converter
Date: Feb 02, 2007
I have a Bendix/King GPS that has an RS232 General Format communication designed to interface with a Shadin Fuel Computer. However, I want the GPS to communicate with an AF-2500 engine monitor that requires NMEA 0183 format. Does anyone know of a converter for this purpose? Thanks. Bill RV-7 FWF Lees Summit, MO

I have a Bendix/King GPS that has an RS232 General Format communication designed to interface with a Shadin Fuel Computer. However, I want the GPS to communicate with an AF-2500 engine monitor that requires NMEA 0183 format. Does anyone know of a converter for this purpose? Thanks.

 

Bill

RV-7 FWF

Lees Summit, MO

 


      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
From: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS Gotta justify the new upcoming user fees somehow! I can hardly wait!...:( Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave N6030X Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS --> The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances in safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, by, and for the people"? Dave Morris At 10:14 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS
From: john(at)ballofshame.com
#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. Assinine. #2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or anything else. my $.02 -John www.ballofshame.com > Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. > > _____ > > From: AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org [mailto:AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:01 AM > To: GAMARR(at)CHARTER.NET > Subject: ePilot: Talking user fees with media; most beautiful plane > > > Having trouble viewing this ePilot? View > <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/2007/070202epilot.html> it > online. To ensure that you continue to receive this newsletter, please add > AOPA_ePilot(at)aopa.org to your address book. > > > <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/masthead.jpg> > > Volume 9, Issue 5 . February 2, 2007 > In this issue: > NRC leaves aviation regulation up to <> FAA > When airline flight <> deck calls, private pilot answers > AOPA works to ensure fairness in TV <> security story > > > This ePilot is sponsored by > > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10518> Sponsored by Mooney > Aircraft Company > > > Advertisers > > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10519> Bose Aviation Headsets > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10520> AeroShell > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10521> Garmin International > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10522> Airline Transport > Professionals > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10523> King Schools > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10524> Pilot Insurance Center > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10525> JP Instruments > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10526> Jeppesen > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10527> AOPA Credit Card > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10528> Scheyden Eyewear > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10529> Minnesota Life > Insurance > > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10530> AOPA Aircraft Financing > > > Got news? Contact ePilot. Having difficulty > using > this service? Visit the ePilot Frequently Asked Questions now at AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/faq.html> Online or write > to > epilot(at)aopa.org. > > > 421 Aviation Way > Frederick, MD 21701 > Tel: 800/USA-AOPA or > 301/695-2000 > > Copyright C 2007 AOPA. > > > GA News > > > AOPA TELLS REPORTERS WHAT TO WATCH FOR IN USER FEES > <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202pressConf.jpg> The Bush > administration won't have a chance to obscure the issue of aviation user > fees in the president's upcoming budget submission to Congress. That's > because AOPA took a preemptive strike, briefing key reporters in the > nation's capital about how to find the secrets in the budget when it is > made > public on February 5. "The administration is manufacturing an FAA 'funding > crisis' in a smoke-and-mirrors attempt to divert attention away from the > real issue-the need to address the problems that constrain capacity, > efficiency, and new technology adoption," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. > "They are attempting an end-around of Congress to put the world's safest, > most efficient, and largest air traffic control system into the hands of > airline barons who've flown their own businesses into bankruptcy," Boyer > said at the National Press Club on Thursday. And taking Congress out of > the > mix would be a very bad idea, according to Ken Mead, the former Department > of Transportation inspector general who joined Boyer at the podium. "You > need the checks and balances of the U.S. Congress," said Mead. See AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201briefing.html> Online. > > NRC LEAVES AVIATION REGULATION UP TO FAA > The Nuclear Regulatory Commission this week announced new security > requirements for nuclear power plants, but it did not overstep its > jurisdiction by trying to regulate aviation. In fact, it specifically said > the FAA and military were charged with addressing the possibility of > airborne attacks. "We continue to work with Congress, the FAA, Department > of > Defense, and other government agencies to show that general aviation does > not pose a threat to nuclear power plants," said Andy Cebula, AOPA > executive > vice president of government affairs. A 2002 > <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2002/02-2-159_report.pdf> report > commissioned by AOPA revealed that GA aircraft couldn't penetrate the > concrete containment area around nuclear power plants or cause the release > of radiation. In 2004, the Government Accountability Office released its > own > report, pointing out that nuclear power plants were designed to withstand > an > accident involving an airliner. See AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070131nrc.html> Online. > > FAA PROPOSES TO CHANGE AGE-60 RULE > FAA Administrator Marion Blakey announced January 30 that the agency would > soon be writing rules to move the mandatory retirement age for airline > pilots from 60 to 65. The proposed rule change would parallel > international > standards, requiring one crewmember to be younger than 60 with an > older-than-60 pilot in the cockpit. "While this rule doesn't directly > affect > pilots flying general aviation aircraft, we've always followed the issue > closely because of our concern about any age discrimination against > pilots," > said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "We all recognize that older > pilots-airline > or GA-can have skills that surpass younger pilots because of their flight > hours and experience. We hope that this will also be recognized by the > insurance community and others who place penalties on older GA pilots." > And > to help establish-once and for all-that age is not a pathology, the AOPA > Air > Safety Foundation is about to start a yearlong study-with the help of a > major recognized research institution-to determine exactly how age affects > airmanship and safety. See AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070130age60.html> Online. > > FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > Think your portable GPS would work great mounted to your old Cessna 172's > instrument panel? If the FAA has its way, you won't be able to mount it. > The > parts-panel dock and connective wiring-needed to mount your portable GPS > would either no longer be available or be too expensive to buy. The FAA's > proposal would make it illegal for manufacturers to produce a replacement > or > modification part if they know (or should know) the part would end up > installed in a certified aircraft-that is unless they obtain production > approval from the agency. But that costs tens of thousands of dollars, > something many companies can't afford. While AOPA agrees production > approval > is necessary for critical parts like connecting rods and cylinders, it > isn't > needed for non-critical parts like a portable GPS panel dock or traffic > detector that enhance pilot safety. See AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201parts.html> Online. > > BRS EYES BIGGER AIRPLANES FOR AIRFRAME PARACHUTES > Ballistic Recovery Systems (BRS) says it has conducted a series of > successful development tests for airframe parachutes designed to handle > heavier loads and higher speeds. BRS has long talked about expanding its > product line to increase the number of aircraft that can utilize the > safety > feature, including very light jets. The tests were conducted in the > Southwest using a former military aircraft to perform drop tests. The > company's new sewing facility in Tijuana, Mexico, produced the test > canopies. Final assembly and engineering takes place in St. Paul, > Minnesota. > BRS has delivered more than 25,000 parachutes since beginning operations > in > 1981. More than 3,000 of the company's systems are flying on certified > aircraft. > > LIBERTY GOES AFTER TIGER, SYMPHONY CUSTOMERS > <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202liberty.jpg> With the > demise > of Tiger and Symphony aircraft companies, Liberty > <http://www.libertyaerospace.com> Aerospace has taken the unusual step of > honoring customer deposits from the two aforementioned companies. Liberty > says it will honor up to $10,000 toward the purchase of an XL2, provided > the > customer can provide proof of the previous deposit. "This opportunity is > being offered for a limited time and is dependent on market response," > according to a Liberty news release. > > WHEN THE AIRLINE FLIGHT DECK CALLS, PRIVATE PILOT ANSWERS > It's a safe bet that most private pilots will never be asked to help out > on > the flight deck of a Boeing 757 airliner during an actual in-flight > emergency. But that's exactly what happened to pilot Stephen W. Brown of > Albuquerque, New Mexico. He was traveling on a commercial flight from > Houston to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, on January 24 when the captain became > incapacitated and later died. In > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10541> a recent interview, > Brown > told AOPA ePilot that his "once-in-a-lifetime event" offers lessons to > other > pilots who might someday find themselves in the front office of an > advanced > cockpit. > > VLJ SHOW SET FOR MARCH 2 > If you'd like to experience the entire very light jet (VLJ) segment of the > industry in one day, check out the Future > <http://www.flyjetpool.com/vlj.html> of Business Aviation Very Light Jet > Show on March 2 in Charlotte, North Carolina. Cessna, Eclipse, Spectrum, > Embraer, Adam, Honda, and Diamond will all be exhibiting. Also, there will > seminars on the following topics: VLJ 101, insurance, legal issues, taxes, > and financing. The event is presented by Jetpool, an aviation management > company. > > MIKE GOULIAN WINS PRESTIGIOUS AIRSHOW AWARD > Airshow performer and aerobatic competitor Mike Goulian has won the > prestigious 2006 Art Scholl Showmanship Award. It is presented each year > by > the International Council of Airshows to performers who go beyond high-G > maneuvers. Goulian is known for his passion for aviation and giving back > to > the industry through flight training and other endeavors. The award is > given > in honor of Art Scholl, the consummate airshow performer and motion > picture > stunt pilot. > > WORLD'S MOST BEAUTIFUL AIRPLANE > What's the most beautiful airplane you've ever seen? Help us out with our > latest <http://www.aopa.org/members/survey/full_survey.cfm?id=156> online > survey. The results will appear in an upcoming issue of AOPA Pilot > magazine > in the "Pilot Briefing" section. > > For daily news updates, see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/members> Online. > > > Inside AOPA > > > <http://www.aopaia.com/renterinsurance> > > AOPA WORKS TO ENSURE FAIRNESS IN TV SECURITY STORY > When AOPA's media relations department learned that KHOU-TV, the CBS > affiliate in Houston, Texas, was preparing a story on assumed gaps in > security at local general aviation airports, staff members contacted the > 11 > News Investigates team. The story was scheduled to air February 1. "We > can't > control the outcome, but we can be sure the reporter has all the relevant > facts in hand," said AOPA Media Relations Director Chris Dancy. "In this > case, we made sure the reporter knew about AOPA's > <http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/> Airport Watch and all the other GA > security enhancements that have been put in place since the September 11, > 2001, terrorist attacks." See AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/> > Online. > > JOY OF FLIGHT: LITTLE FIELD BRINGS FATHER, SON TOGETHER > R. Rollie Rankin didn't get to see his son very often, and when he did, > those visits tended to be awkward. But a happenstance stop at a tiny > mountaintop airfield changed that. Find out how an ordinary gentlemen with > a > yellow taildragger gave the two what they needed to get their relationship > on the right track in "Little > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10539> field brings father, son > together," the latest installment of the Joy of Flight. Who knows, you > could > be that ordinary pilot who sparks an extraordinary change in someone > else's > life...just by doing what you love-flying. To submit a story about GA > adventures, please send us > an > e-mail. Past articles are available > <http://www.aopa.org/members/joyofflight/> online. > > > Expert Advice > > > TAX TIME: CAN YOU GET A DEDUCTION FOR FLYING? > The W-2s have been mailed, and we are in the midst of tax season. While > you're looking for deductions, consider your aircraft. Have you used it > for > business purposes? AOPA's "Pilot's > <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/guides/tax_guide.html> Guide to Taxes" > serves as a starting point for aircraft owners looking for deductions and > as > a guide to working with a tax advisor. > > FIND OUT IF YOUR FLYING CLUB CAN BECOME TAX EXEMPT > Are you involved in a flying club? Read > <http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/ac/flyingclubs/taxes.html> up on the > qualifications for tax exempt status. An exemption may be granted when a > club is "organized and operated exclusively for pleasure, recreation, and > other nonprofit purposes." Just having nonprofit status does not > automatically exempt your club from submitting a federal income tax > return. > Check out the Application > <http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id'122,00.html> for Recognition > of Exemption section of the Internal Revenue Service Web site for > information on how to get started. AOPA recommends walking through this > process with your tax advisor. > > > AOPA Air Safety Foundation News > > > ARE YOU CONNECTED? LEARN ABOUT DATALINK > Datalink is the latest technology bringing digital weather and traffic > information to general aviation cockpits. Learn how this new technology > works-and how you can use it safely in the cockpit-with the AOPA Air > Safety > Foundation's 30-minute online minicourse, Datalink > <http://www.asf.org/datalink> . Simply stated, datalink uses satellites > and > ground stations to send wireless signals to a receiver on properly > equipped > aircraft; the information from those signals can be displayed on a GPS > screen, multifunction display, or personal digital assistant. Datalink > weather information includes radar, satellite, text, severe weather > warnings, and more. Traffic and airspace information, like temporary > flight > restrictions, also help increase pilots' situational awareness in the > cockpit. > > GIVE BRAKING ACTION REPORTS A SQUEEZE > Ever tuned in the ATIS at the airport only to hear "...braking action > fair" > and wondered exactly what it meant? The AOPA Air Safety Foundation's > Safety > Brief <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/SB03.pdf> Braking Action > Reports highlights one of the hazards of winter flying-taxiways and > runways > covered in snow, ice, and slush. In this Safety Brief, learn about braking > action and listen to actual recorded examples of ATIS braking action > reports. > > COLD HARD FACTS ON WING CONTAMINATION > If you're learning to fly in colder parts of the country, you've probably > learned that an essential part of preflight is to clean the wings of snow, > frost, or ice. During the last 10 years, there have been more than 30 > accidents that occurred on takeoff because the airplane's wings were > contaminated. As a result of these accidents, the NTSB mailed all pilots > an > alert letter urging them to look at and feel the aircraft's wings during > preflight to ensure no ice is present. The AOPA Air Safety Foundation's > <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2007/SB02.pdf> Cold Facts: Wing > Contamination Safety Brief offers suggestions for simple preflight steps > that can easily prevent these kinds of accidents. > > > Quiz Me > > Here's a question asked by an AOPA member who contacted our aviation > services staff through the AOPA Pilot Information Center. Test your > knowledge. > > > Question: I recently had to deviate from an ATC clearance to handle an > in-flight emergency involving an electrical short circuit. Must I notify > the > FAA? > > Answer: The only time you are required > <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/fars/far-91.html#14:2.0.1.3.10.2.4.12> > to > notify the FAA of an in-flight deviation is when it specifically requests > it. Additionally, FAR 91.3 states the following: "In an in-flight > emergency > requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule > of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. The pilot in > command may still be investigated by the FAA for any infraction contrary > to > the regulations, but the emergency will be a mitigating circumstance. For > more insight, review the online AOPA article, "Legal > <http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=4161> > Briefing-Reporting Emergencies," and the AOPA Air Safety Foundation's > interactive online safety course, Say > <http://flash.aopa.org/asf/sayIntentions/> Intentions. > <http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/ac150-5220-16c.pdf> > > Got a question for our aviation services staff? The AOPA Pilot Information > Center is is at your service. Call toll-free 800/872-2672 to speak to a > specialist about any general aviation topic. Or e-mail to > pilotassist(at)aopa.org. Send comments on our Quiz Me! questions to > epilot(at)aopa.org. > > > Picture Perfect > > Looking for some really fabulous aviation photography? All the air-to-air > photos and beautifully detailed ground images used by AOPA Pilot magazine > over the years are yours at the click of a mouse button. Download your > favorite images to use for wallpaper, send an e-postcard, or order prints > online. For more details, see AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10532> Online. > > > Catch-A-Cardinal Sweepstakes Update > > > <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/070202sweeps.jpg> Every > sweepstakes project starts with a little deconstruction. This week we > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10538> really get into the guts > of the matter. Technicians are disassembling the Cardinal to see what > lurks > inside. It's a challenge for sure, but we want to rebuild your airplane > just > right. Follow along as this bird's wings get removed in preparation for > all > of the exciting enhancements on the horizon. > > > AOPA Career Opportunity > > > Are you one of the industry's recognized leaders in public relations? If > so, > you should know that we are looking to create a new role of Vice President > of Public Relations. The ideal candidate is an experienced communications > professional with strong public and media relations, issues management, > and > crisis communications skills. This person should be a respected leader > with > a long track record of success. Learn more about this opportunity on AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10540> Online. > > > Weekend Weather > > > <http://www.aopa.org/images/epilot/weather_icon.jpg> SOUTH CENTRAL > FORECAST > Flying Forecast: A widespread area of MVFR to IFR ceilings and snows will > begin on Friday over the OK and TX panhandles. During the afternoon and > into > the evening, this area is expected to expand to the east-south and ride > along the Red River Valley and eastward into AR and northern LA. By Friday > evening, high pressure will wedge back over the area, drawing much of the > precipitation to a close. Much of the region should be VFR for the start > of > Saturday, aside from a few light MVFR snow showers dropping south out of > NE > and into KS and MO. Throughout the evening and into the start of Sunday, > periods of MVFR snows will be found draping west out of the Tennessee > Valley > and over the southern tier of MO and into northern AR. A few lingering > snow > showers are expected to remain over KS and MO into the later hours of > Sunday, but much of the accumulations should remain in the trace to inch > category. > > See the current weather on AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10533> Online, provided by > Meteorlogix. > > > ePilot Calendar > > UPCOMING FLYING DESTINATIONS: > Novi, MI. The Great Lakes Aviation Conference takes place February 2 and 3 > at the Rock Financial Showplace. Now entering its seventh year, this is > the > most comprehensive aviation event of its kind. With more than 100 breakout > sessions and exhibits, the GLIAC has something for everyone. Contact Todd > Smith, 248/348-6942, or visit the Web > <http://www.GreatLakesAviationConference.com> site. > > > <http://download.aopa.org/images/epilot/destinations.jpg> UPCOMING > FLYING > DESTINATIONS IN THE SOUTHWEST REGION: > McKinney, TX. An EAA Chapter 1246 Homebuilders Display takes place > February > 8 at Collin County Community College. Contact Bob Rogers, 972/761-2280. > > > To submit <http://www.aopa.org/pilot/calendar/addcal.cfm> an event to the > calendar or to search <http://www.aopa.org/pilot/calendar> all events > visit > AOPA Online. For airport details, see AOPA's > <http://www.aopa.org/members/airports> Airport Directory Online. > > FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR REFRESHER CLINICS > The next AOPA Air Safety Foundation Flight Instructor Refresher Clinics > are > scheduled in Sacramento, CA, Louisville, KY, and Ashburn, VA, February 10 > and 11. Clinics are also scheduled in Melbourne, FL, Baton Rouge, LA, and > Dallas, February 17 and 18. For a complete schedule, see AOPA > <http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/idxfirc.html> Online. Can't make it in > person? > Sign up for the CFI > <http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/cfi_renewal_online.html> > Refresher Online. > > AOPA AIR SAFETY FOUNDATION SAFETY SEMINARS > AOPA Air Safety Foundation Safety Seminars are scheduled in Little Rock, > AR, > Ocala, FL, and Atlanta, February 5; Fayetteville, AR, Northglenn, CO, > Tampa, > FL, and Maryville, TN, February 6; Colorado Springs, CO, Melbourne, FL, > Oklahoma City, and Nashville, TN, February 7; and Lake Worth, FL, Wichita, > KS, and Germantown, TN, February 8. The topic is "Say It Right! Radio > Communications in Today's Airspace." For details and a complete schedule, > see AOPA <http://www.aopa.org/asf/seminars/seminar.cfm> Online. > > > _____ > > This issue of ePilot was created for > GIFFEN MARR at GAMARR(at)CHARTER.NET > > > Member Tools: > > Editorial Team: > > > * Send feedback > > * Update <http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=10534> member > profile > > * Change e-mail address > > > * Unsubscribe > > * ePilot <http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/epilot/> archive > > * Managing Editor: > Nate Ferguson > > * Assistant Editor: Alyssa Miller > > * Contributors: Warren Morningstar and Alton Marsh > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS > >The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances in >safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, by, >and for the people"? This is pretty consistent with past policies. You don't need to make log entries for things that are not physically attached . . . i.e., portable personal accessories and piloting aids. This is why my dual gps installation wedges between the of the glare shield and windshield held in place with small dollops of windshield sealant. No connections to the aircraft's wiring. All goes back into the flight bag when I park the airplane and leaves no tracks for having been there. This isn't going to get better folks. Look at it this way: Everyone has notions that what they do for a living will produce an ever increasing flow of revenue and greater stature amongst their peers. Suppose your job right out of college was: "Here's the books son. Read. Memorize. Go forth and make aviation safer." Given that the only tools of your craft are crafting of rules, publishing of rules, policing compliance with the rules and punishment of transgressors. What are your options for working up the ladder in the career of your choice? Microsoft, Sony, Chrysler, and McDonalds MUST drive up returns by judicious investments in activities designed to increase CUSTOMER perceptions of value. Their fortunes are driven by increasing gross sales by offering more attractive product or increasing numbers of customers for the current products. The FAA has no customers. I.e, no consumer/supplier relationship and therefore no accountability or perception of value-received for their efforts. Further, the only way a bureaucrat can move up in the world is to either (1) be party to expansion of the activity's operating horizons (more rules) or (2) take over command of greater numbers of bureaucrats. There are no other metrics by which an organization chartered with "enhancement of public safety" can grow professionally . . . public risks from the presence of aviation are so small that ANY endeavor to reduce them is exceedingly expensive, restrictive of personal liberties and still more difficult to demonstrate that any one effort has produced a useful outcome. When challenged on this perception by those who like to believe in the value of this activity I will ask, "How many lives did you save last year? Or if your function ceased to be performed, how many folks would die as a result next year? If you ceased to do your job, how many individuals would go elsewhere to find an alternate source for your services?" I've yet to receive a cogent answer . . . I've had a working relationship with this organization for over 30 years. If I plot observed and demonstrated present trends out to the future, our industry in its present form is doomed. 20 years? 30 years? Impossible to predict with accuracy but the TREND is relentlessly trudging on in the wrong direction. Without a fundamental change in direction, the outcome is as inevitable as the sun coming up tomorrow morning. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Echoing Dick Tasker's comments. Casting about on the web, came across remarks that the IC-ANT-SB device would significantly degrade performance of COM-1 when the Handheld was not in use, and that the 3.5 mm jack was "crude". Listers? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS Given that there are folks out there who shouldn't be trusted to plug a toaster into a wall socket, why in God's name do you want them futzing about with the electrical system of a TC aircraft. Like it or not there's a trail of dead bodies going back to 1909 of people who just knew better and no one could tell them different. Take a look at what happened in ultralights. I still remember Dennis telling all within earshot that he didn't think there was a way to break his aircraft, then proceeded to go up and prove how wrong he was. His reward for his innovation was a 1500 foot vertical ride, followed a few days later by a much slower 6 foot descent. The FAA owns TC aircraft, and they're within their rights to make this ruling. What happens to the guy or gal who buys that aircraft somewhere down the road? Who will step up and look out for them, the fine innovative manufacturer who sold the product in the first place? Don't be so dense. The FAA does a pretty good job of managing an extremely complex activity. All this argument does is prove the adage that, "nothing is impossible to the man who doesn't have to." Rick On 2/2/07, CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com wrote: > > At an airshow we talked to several military pilots, due to the slow grind > at getting quality upgrades it had become common for them to home brew their > own. The industry innovates and outpaces the approval and implimentation > process so much that it should be standard to just have blank panel area > available with a robust power supply (read that as bloody fool proof) and > let them have at it. As long as it does not interfere with anything and > cannot bring the system power down whats the difference between an MP3 > player and a GPS?.. its non of anybody else's business. > ...Chrissi > > CG Products > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: RS232 converter
RS-232 is an electrical specification, whereas NMEA 0183 is the specification for the data that is transmitted over RS-232. So what you're looking for is a "Bendix/King format to NMEA0183 format converter". That would be a small computer, not an interface box. I don't think one exists. But doesn't your Bendix/King GPS have an option to transmit NMEA0183? That spec has been around for a very long time. Which GPS is it? Dave Morris At 11:44 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >I have a Bendix/King GPS that has an RS232 "General Format" >communication designed to interface with a Shadin Fuel Computer. >However, I want the GPS to communicate with an AF-2500 engine >monitor that requires NMEA 0183 format. Does anyone know of a >converter for this purpose? Thanks."urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > >Bill > >RV-7 FWF > >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Lee's Summit, MO > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS > >#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has >absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How >are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and >Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. >Assinine. You're correct. Further, they have no jurisdiction over what you want to bolt to your TC airplane . . . 'cause if it's not approved, the airplane is no longer airworthy. Put daylight under the wheels and while they probably won't shoot you down, they might well be waiting for you when you get back! >#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel >if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or >anything else. Yup, under the present paradigms. However, the majority of the modern light aircraft fleet are OBAM machines. They will soon be the majority of the total fleet. It's axiomatic that many folks within various organizations (congress, FAA, state and local governments, etc) are salivating over the idea of bringing all these "loose cannons in US airspace" under the benevolent guidance of those who claim credit for aviation's current levels of safety. "We need more rules to write and more bureaucrats to hire". Don't forget, a small fraction of registered voters in this country even vote. When they do vote, it's more likely to be an expressing of appreciation for promises over which the candidate has no control. A few hundred folks in Washington have absolute control over our future and their ears are NOT attuned to voices teaching the principles of simple-ideas, liberty and honorable behavior in a democratic republic. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wgill10(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: RS232 converter
Date: Feb 02, 2007
The KLN 89B and KLN 94 do not have an option to change the RS232 format. Honeywell did tell me that a company makes a converter for said purpose, but they could not recall the vendor's name. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> > > RS-232 is an electrical specification, whereas NMEA 0183 is the > specification for the data that is transmitted over RS-232. So what > you're looking for is a "Bendix/King format to NMEA0183 format > converter". That would be a small computer, not an interface box. I > don't think one exists. > > But doesn't your Bendix/King GPS have an option to transmit > NMEA0183? That spec has been around for a very long time. Which GPS is it? > > Dave Morris > > At 11:44 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > > >I have a Bendix/King GPS that has an RS232 "General Format" > >communication designed to interface with a Shadin Fuel Computer. > >However, I want the GPS to communicate with an AF-2500 engine > >monitor that requires NMEA 0183 format. Does anyone know of a > >converter for this purpose? Thanks.> >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > > > > > > >Bill > > > >RV-7 FWF > > > >> >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Lee's Summit, MO > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.matronics.com/ > Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > > > > > >
The KLN 89B and KLN 94 do not have an option to change the RS232 format. Honeywell did tell me that a company makes a converter for said purpose, but they could not recall the vendor's name.
 

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X
>
> RS-232 is an electrical specification, whereas NMEA 0183 is the
> specification for the data that is transmitted over RS-232. So what
> you're looking for is a "Bendix/King format to NMEA0183 format
> converter". That would be a small computer, not an interface box. I
> don't think one exists.
>
> But doesn't your Bendix/King GPS have an option to transmit
> NMEA0183? That spec has been around for a very long time. Which GPS is it?
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 11:44 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote:
>
> >I have a Bendix/King GPS that has an RS232 "General Format"
> >communication designed to interf ace wi >>

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net>
Subject: Circuit needed
Date: Feb 02, 2007
I have auxillary fuel tanks that are pumped to a header tank for use. I plan to use an OFF-ON-(ON) switch coupled with a pressure switch (NC, and already in my parts bin) to activate a blinking LED when there's no pressure and to activate the pump. When the pump pressurizes the line and opens the p-switch, the LED goes to steady on. Does one use a capacitor to get the LED to blink? and is there a "null" between the ON-(ON) positions? Obviously I need help on the circuit design. Thanks for any help you can offer. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS Rick, I for one am not going to just roll over and give my freedoms up just because there is a line of people que'd up for Darwin awards. By legislating to protect fools from themselves we all suffer. In your example someone failed to point out that statistically ultralights are not tolerant to carelessness, daredevils or the incompetant. Nobody is "entitled" to fly any kind of craft, it takes dedication, training and retraining. It is certainly not for everybody. No amount of regulation is going to make it safe from the intentions of some people, meanwhile we give up more and more freedom in the process. Kids ride bicycles, they fall off and they get hurt. Some mommy sues the bicycle company and now its law kids wear helmets, next it will be airbags and padded suits, seat belts. I strongly prefer kids just learn what their limitations are, what a bandaid is for and to think twice before they do something stupid again. It comes down to personal responsibility and good judgement. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS >Given that there are folks out there who shouldn't be trusted to plug a >toaster into a wall socket, why in God's name do you want them futzing >about with the electrical system of a TC aircraft. Why is a TC aircraft sacrosanct? There are folks with knowledge, skills and resources to accomplish non-hazardous and useful things to what ever machines they own . . . and there are folks who are not. An all-terrain vehicle can be (and probably is) far more dangerous than an airplane . . . but is it because aircraft are tucked under the benevolent wing of the FAA? The similarity of accident rates between TC and OBAM aircraft would argue against this premise. >Like it or not there's a trail of dead bodies going back to 1909 of people >who just knew better and no one could tell them different. Take a look at >what happened in ultralights. I still remember Dennis telling all within >earshot that he didn't think there was a way to break his aircraft, then >proceeded to go up and prove how wrong he was. His reward for his >innovation was a 1500 foot vertical ride, followed a few days later by a >much slower 6 foot descent. So he did a stupid thing with his ultralight, would he have been any more responsible in a TC or OBAM aircraft . . . or snowmobile? >The FAA owns TC aircraft, and they're within their rights to make this ruling. I'll suggest not "rights" but "legislative charter". There is a clear and distinct difference between rights and charters. >What happens to the guy or gal who buys that aircraft somewhere down the >road? Who will step up and look out for them, the fine innovative >manufacturer who sold the product in the first place? Don't be so dense. >The FAA does a pretty good job of managing an extremely complex activity. >All this argument does is prove the adage that, "nothing is impossible to >the man who doesn't have to." The FAA manages nothing. They're policemen. They have a set of rulebooks under their arms and can only react to perceptions of having violated a rule. And like FARS, TQM, ISO9000, and gigatons of policies, rules and procedures, none of these institutions offset the effects of dishonorable/irresponsible behavior of individuals . . . ordinary accident. Nonetheless, under legislative charter and financing from the public purse, the FAA (and others) soldier on with zero responsibility or even regard for the unintended consequences of their charter. Those unintended consequences include but are not limited to prohibiting the responsible, capable citizen from making perfectly safe and useful modifications to their airplane. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Another reason to stay away from "certified" aircraft. Bevan RV7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave N6030X Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS --> The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances in safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, by, and for the people"? Dave Morris At 10:14 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. > > >---------- > >---------- >FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS Think your >portable GPS would work great mounted to your old Cessna 172's >instrument panel? If the FAA has its way, you won't be able to mount >it. The parts-panel dock and connective wiring-needed to mount your >portable GPS would either no longer be available or be too expensive to >buy. The FAA's proposal would make it illegal for manufacturers to >produce a replacement or modification part if they know (or should >know) the part would end up installed in a certified aircraft-that is >unless they obtain production approval from the agency. But that costs >tens of thousands of dollars, something many companies can't afford. >While AOPA agrees production approval is necessary for critical parts >like connecting rods and cylinders, it isn't needed for non-critical >parts like a portable GPS panel dock or traffic detector that enhance >pilot safety. See ><http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070201parts.html>AOPA Online. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Circuit needed
>I have auxillary fuel tanks that are pumped to a header tank for use. I >plan to use an OFF-ON-(ON) switch coupled with a pressure switch (NC, and >already in my parts bin) to activate a blinking LED when there's no >pressure and to activate the pump. When the pump pressurizes the line and >opens the p-switch, the LED goes to steady on. > >Does one use a capacitor to get the LED to blink? You can buy leds that flash . . . but it looks like you need the same led to light steady too. This will take some electronics. How does the pump develop and magnitude of pressure? Fuel transfer pumps generally operate into an open line to another tank with a very low order of pressure. You say you have a pressure switch. What pressure level causes it to change states? > and is there a "null" between the ON-(ON) positions? No . . . not if it's a really good good switch . . . > >Obviously I need help on the circuit design. Need more 'input' . . . Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
>Echoing Dick Tasker's comments. > >Casting about on the web, came across remarks that the IC-ANT-SB device >would significantly degrade performance of COM-1 when the Handheld was not >in use, and that the 3.5 mm jack was "crude". > >Listers? Good feedback sir. We'll see what they look like when I get them in hand. I may very well need to return them. Can you cite the location where this comment was found? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION
FOR PORTABLE GPS
From: john(at)ballofshame.com
You're spot on, as usual, Bob. What gets me is that there are already regulations that cover installation of unapproved components (as you pointed out)...something to the effect of it can't be "permanently wired" into the aircraft, or something like that. The move to make illegal the manufacture of devices that could potentially be used to install something in an aircraft is bizarre. re: user fees What's the old saying about the government taxing air if it could figure out a way to do it? -John www.ballofshame.com > > > >> >>#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has >>absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How >>are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and >>Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. >>Assinine. > > You're correct. Further, they have no jurisdiction over what > you want to bolt to your TC airplane . . . 'cause if it's not > approved, the airplane is no longer airworthy. Put daylight > under the wheels and while they probably won't shoot you > down, they might well be waiting for you when you get back! > > >>#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel >>if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or >>anything else. > > Yup, under the present paradigms. However, the majority of the modern > light aircraft fleet are OBAM machines. They will soon be the > majority of the total fleet. It's axiomatic that many folks > within various organizations (congress, FAA, state and local > governments, etc) are salivating over the idea of bringing > all these "loose cannons in US airspace" under the benevolent > guidance of those who claim credit for aviation's current > levels of safety. "We need more rules to write and more > bureaucrats to hire". > > Don't forget, a small fraction of registered voters in this > country even vote. When they do vote, it's more likely > to be an expressing of appreciation for promises over which the > candidate has no control. A few hundred folks in Washington > have absolute control over our future and their ears are > NOT attuned to voices teaching the principles of simple-ideas, > liberty and honorable behavior in a democratic republic. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
I agree, but what to do? Do we as a group embark on mass disobedience with solidarity? Fly our aircraft by the thousands in massive formations over the state Capitol? Or do we continue what we've been doing by just building and flying and gathering at Oshkosh, Sun-n-fun, and so many other shows as a public showing of the size of our numbers. I think so. But surely as we enjoy ourselves, we must be aware of the ground-bound bureaucrats and those they wish to influence below us as they look up with some degree of jealousy. Get out there, build, fly, vote and "talk-up" aviation with all who will listen. Having fun and having the sense of freedom that flying brings is very contagious. Spread it and support those who are spreading it. Bevan RV7A Egg H6 on order -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS --> >--> > >The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances >in safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, >by, and for the people"? This is pretty consistent with past policies. You don't need to make log entries for things that are not physically attached . . . i.e., portable personal accessories and piloting aids. This is why my dual gps installation wedges between the of the glare shield and windshield held in place with small dollops of windshield sealant. No connections to the aircraft's wiring. All goes back into the flight bag when I park the airplane and leaves no tracks for having been there. This isn't going to get better folks. Look at it this way: Everyone has notions that what they do for a living will produce an ever increasing flow of revenue and greater stature amongst their peers. Suppose your job right out of college was: "Here's the books son. Read. Memorize. Go forth and make aviation safer." Given that the only tools of your craft are crafting of rules, publishing of rules, policing compliance with the rules and punishment of transgressors. What are your options for working up the ladder in the career of your choice? Microsoft, Sony, Chrysler, and McDonalds MUST drive up returns by judicious investments in activities designed to increase CUSTOMER perceptions of value. Their fortunes are driven by increasing gross sales by offering more attractive product or increasing numbers of customers for the current products. The FAA has no customers. I.e, no consumer/supplier relationship and therefore no accountability or perception of value-received for their efforts. Further, the only way a bureaucrat can move up in the world is to either (1) be party to expansion of the activity's operating horizons (more rules) or (2) take over command of greater numbers of bureaucrats. There are no other metrics by which an organization chartered with "enhancement of public safety" can grow professionally . . . public risks from the presence of aviation are so small that ANY endeavor to reduce them is exceedingly expensive, restrictive of personal liberties and still more difficult to demonstrate that any one effort has produced a useful outcome. When challenged on this perception by those who like to believe in the value of this activity I will ask, "How many lives did you save last year? Or if your function ceased to be performed, how many folks would die as a result next year? If you ceased to do your job, how many individuals would go elsewhere to find an alternate source for your services?" I've yet to receive a cogent answer . . . I've had a working relationship with this organization for over 30 years. If I plot observed and demonstrated present trends out to the future, our industry in its present form is doomed. 20 years? 30 years? Impossible to predict with accuracy but the TREND is relentlessly trudging on in the wrong direction. Without a fundamental change in direction, the outcome is as inevitable as the sun coming up tomorrow morning. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Amen!! Bicycles and personal aircraft are optional. Bevan RV7A _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS Rick, I for one am not going to just roll over and give my freedoms up just because there is a line of people que'd up for Darwin awards. By legislating to protect fools from themselves we all suffer. In your example someone failed to point out that statistically ultralights are not tolerant to carelessness, daredevils or the incompetant. Nobody is "entitled" to fly any kind of craft, it takes dedication, training and retraining. It is certainly not for everybody. No amount of regulation is going to make it safe from the intentions of some people, meanwhile we give up more and more freedom in the process. Kids ride bicycles, they fall off and they get hurt. Some mommy sues the bicycle company and now its law kids wear helmets, next it will be airbags and padded suits, seat belts. I strongly prefer kids just learn what their limitations are, what a bandaid is for and to think twice before they do something stupid again. It comes down to personal responsibility and good judgement. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: Circuit needed
Date: Feb 02, 2007
There are 12V LED's that come ready made to blink. Check digikey. Bevan RV7A Egg H6 on order _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Burnaby Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit needed I have auxillary fuel tanks that are pumped to a header tank for use. I plan to use an OFF-ON-(ON) switch coupled with a pressure switch (NC, and already in my parts bin) to activate a blinking LED when there's no pressure and to activate the pump. When the pump pressurizes the line and opens the p-switch, the LED goes to steady on. Does one use a capacitor to get the LED to blink? and is there a "null" between the ON-(ON) positions? Obviously I need help on the circuit design. Thanks for any help you can offer. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Course, there is another issue involved... To my knowledge, all of the hand-held GPS units are "VFR only". But you don't have to do much web surfing to find a lot of "suggestions" about how to file an IFR flight plan "direct to" based on an "iffy" flight for 80 miles or so along a VOR radial, then actually flying it using a hand-held GPS unit. So, is it not possible that, as is often the case, a bunch of "rule benders" are screwing things up for everybody else? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 12:30 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > >#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has >absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How >are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and >Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. >Assinine. You're correct. Further, they have no jurisdiction over what you want to bolt to your TC airplane . . . 'cause if it's not approved, the airplane is no longer airworthy. Put daylight under the wheels and while they probably won't shoot you down, they might well be waiting for you when you get back! >#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel >if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or >anything else. Yup, under the present paradigms. However, the majority of the modern light aircraft fleet are OBAM machines. They will soon be the majority of the total fleet. It's axiomatic that many folks within various organizations (congress, FAA, state and local governments, etc) are salivating over the idea of bringing all these "loose cannons in US airspace" under the benevolent guidance of those who claim credit for aviation's current levels of safety. "We need more rules to write and more bureaucrats to hire". Don't forget, a small fraction of registered voters in this country even vote. When they do vote, it's more likely to be an expressing of appreciation for promises over which the candidate has no control. A few hundred folks in Washington have absolute control over our future and their ears are NOT attuned to voices teaching the principles of simple-ideas, liberty and honorable behavior in a democratic republic. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Absolutely, I've been working on the blender thing for those smoothies in the hot summertime. Anybody know where to get a 12v model I can build in ? But seriously I agree with you and I am looking forward to getting my plane built just for those reason's. But those stuck in a spam can will not be so lucky. Personally I don't think the FAA will ever be able to mandate an order that will make all of the portable gps's to be tso'ed as there are too many of them out there already, can you picture 1/2 to 3/4 of all pilots out there jumpin up and down and screaming at the same time. I bet it'll knock a brick or two loose in congress building. Besides I also think the issue is having a permanent docking station for the device installed. If I'm understanding it correctly. If it is yoke mounted or similar then probably not a problem. If I'm wrong I am sure AOPA members will scream loud enough to negate the proposed regulation. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: <john(at)ballofshame.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > #1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has > absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How > are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and > Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. > Assinine. > > #2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel > if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or > anything else. > > my $.02 > > -John > www.ballofshame.com > >> Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS Dave N6030X wrote: > > > The government is always so helpful when it comes to halting advances > in safety dead in their tracks. What ever happened to government "of, > by, and for the people"? > Oh, it's still there. You just have to define "the people" correctly. I wonder how upset the purveyors of $5000 panel mounted GPSs are over people getting the same functionality from a sub $500 unit. Note: I'm absolutely positive that the $5000 unit HAS more functionality, but that doesn't mean that the average GA pilot would get any FUNCTIONALITY from it. Features that I'd never use aren't useful. > Dave Morris > > At 10:14 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > >> Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. >> >> -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Yep from what I gather there is a certain individual that has made his own auto pilot for his spam can which is easily removable with no trace. I'm sure that is the first thing he removes before exiting the airplane if any ramp check is suspected. But while daylight is under his wings he is free. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > You're correct. Further, they have no jurisdiction over what > you want to bolt to your TC airplane . . . 'cause if it's not > approved, the airplane is no longer airworthy. Put daylight > under the wheels and while they probably won't shoot you > down, they might well be waiting for you when you get back! > > >>#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel >>if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or >>anything else. > > Yup, under the present paradigms. However, the majority of the modern > light aircraft fleet are OBAM machines. They will soon be the > majority of the total fleet. It's axiomatic that many folks > within various organizations (congress, FAA, state and local > governments, etc) are salivating over the idea of bringing > all these "loose cannons in US airspace" under the benevolent > guidance of those who claim credit for aviation's current > levels of safety. "We need more rules to write and more > bureaucrats to hire". ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
(additional insight) I've been getting some direct e-mails that suggest a need for further explanation. Take a peek at this photo . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg I've pointed to the little hunk of exposed brass that is supposed to maintain connection between the antenna and the panel mounted comm when the hand held is unplugged. This contact is exposed to the environment and not plated for longevity. Further, the wire connection terminals are relatively flimsy . . . if you recall - the Shop Notes I published recommended splicing short, flexible pigtails to the stub ends of coax center conductors so as to isolate the switch terminals from potential forcing by the stiffer coax. Alternatives? Maybe. See . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_Jack_2.jpg These are ECB mounted, closed circuit jacks. No stresses will be input to the switch structure due to coax . . . See also . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_jack_schematic.pdf Specs for these switches speak to silver plating of some parts. I need to explore this further. What I'm considering is a small ECB assembly that mounts one of these jacks and two right angle BNC jacks to take antenna and transceiver coaxes off the board and into ships wiring. I think this could be a quantum jump up from the Shop Notes design and perhaps more robust and compact than the ICOM product. We'll see . . . Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
... In a message dated 2/2/2007 1:55:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, sales(at)6440autoparts.com writes: Yep from what I gather there is a certain individual that has made his own auto pilot for his spam can which is easily removable with no trace. I'm sure that is the first thing he removes before exiting the airplane if any ramp check is suspected. But while daylight is under his wings he is free. Randy True --- And he showed it to me once upon a time. Looked very nice.... And, -- very simple. He told me that he generally removes it and places it on the back seat before landing. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION
FOR PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
How many people will die because they decide the hassle and expense of installation a GPS and docket isn't worth the bother---and then suffer extreme termination because weather radar, terrain, metars, situational awareness and other information that a GPS puts at our finger tips is not available. When FAA conjures up rules like this, they aren't always just obstructionists, sometimes they end up adding to the NTSB stats in a murderous way. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john(at)ballofshame.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS You're spot on, as usual, Bob. What gets me is that there are already regulations that cover installation of unapproved components (as you pointed out)...something to the effect of it can't be "permanently wired" into the aircraft, or something like that. The move to make illegal the manufacture of devices that could potentially be used to install something in an aircraft is bizarre. re: user fees What's the old saying about the government taxing air if it could figure out a way to do it? -John www.ballofshame.com > > > >> >>#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has >>absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. >>How are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors >>and Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for >>example. Assinine. > > You're correct. Further, they have no jurisdiction over what > you want to bolt to your TC airplane . . . 'cause if it's not > approved, the airplane is no longer airworthy. Put daylight > under the wheels and while they probably won't shoot you > down, they might well be waiting for you when you get back! > > >>#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument >>panel if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, >>or anything else. > > Yup, under the present paradigms. However, the majority of the modern > light aircraft fleet are OBAM machines. They will soon be the > majority of the total fleet. It's axiomatic that many folks > within various organizations (congress, FAA, state and local > governments, etc) are salivating over the idea of bringing > all these "loose cannons in US airspace" under the benevolent > guidance of those who claim credit for aviation's current > levels of safety. "We need more rules to write and more > bureaucrats to hire". > > Don't forget, a small fraction of registered voters in this > country even vote. When they do vote, it's more likely > to be an expressing of appreciation for promises over which the > candidate has no control. A few hundred folks in Washington > have absolute control over our future and their ears are > NOT attuned to voices teaching the principles of simple-ideas, > liberty and honorable behavior in a democratic republic. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
One would think that if such rule benders exist they would be mentioned in the ntsb reports as the cause of their demise. Are there any such reports ? Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > Course, there is another issue involved... > > To my knowledge, all of the hand-held GPS units are "VFR only". > > But you don't have to do much web surfing to find a lot of "suggestions" > about how to file an IFR flight plan "direct to" based on an "iffy" flight > for 80 miles or so along a VOR radial, then actually flying it using a > hand-held GPS unit. > > So, is it not possible that, as is often the case, a bunch of "rule > benders" > are screwing things up for everybody else? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS The problem is that 1/2 to 3/4 of the pilots are too intimidated by the FAA to do any jumping up and down or screaming. If they weren't, we would not have ever allowed the situation to become this out of control to begin with. These are little flying machines, for god's sake, not weapons of mass destruction! For instance, did you know that the ranking member of the US senate subcommittee on aviation has just asked the head of the TSA to become more focused on security IN GENERAL AVIATION? That would mean not just spam cans, but ALL of your airplanes. Can you imagine metal detectors at your airport? Confiscating your swiss army knives? Background checks for everybody who goes on a joy ride in your RV-10? How much worse is an accident in a Cessna 172 than in a Ford Taurus? How many more people can a Cherokee kill in one flight accident than a school bus? Are the electrical systems on school buses regulated as intensely as those on a Cessna 152? I suggest the reason the FAA keeps getting away with taking away more and more of our freedoms is that pilots in general are such patriots that we've always felt the government was benevolent, and so we've cut them more slack. It's time to start looking at these infringements on our liberties with a bit more suspicion. PMA for a piece of plastic to mount my GPS in the panel? Give me a frigging break. I'm writing ALL my congresspeople on this one. Dave Morris At 01:34 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > > > Absolutely, I've been working on the blender thing for those > smoothies in the hot summertime. Anybody know where to get a 12v > model I can build in ? > But seriously I agree with you and I am looking forward to > getting my plane built just for those reason's. But those stuck in > a spam can will not be so lucky. Personally I don't think the FAA > will ever be able to mandate an order that will make all of the > portable gps's to be tso'ed as there are too many of them out there > already, can you picture 1/2 to 3/4 of all pilots out there jumpin > up and down and screaming at the same time. I bet it'll knock a > brick or two loose in congress building. Besides I also think the > issue is having a permanent docking station for the device > installed. If I'm understanding it correctly. If it is yoke mounted > or similar then probably not a problem. If I'm wrong I am sure AOPA > members will scream loud enough to negate the proposed regulation. > >Randy > >----- Original Message ----- From: <john(at)ballofshame.com> >To: >Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:52 AM >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION >FOR PORTABLE GPS > > >> >>#1 As far as I know, this is still a free country and the FAA has >>absolutely no authority over what a company may or may not produce. How >>are they doing to tell Digikey they can no longer make connectors and >>Garmin that they can no longer offer wiring for boats, for example. >>Assinine. >> >>#2 We're experimentals and can install a blender in the instrument panel >>if we wanted to. There's no requirement that anything is TSO'd, or >>anything else. >> >>my $.02 >> >>-John >>www.ballofshame.com >> >>>Looks like Big Brother is trying to help again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Not everyone who drives an automobile faster than the speed limit dies. But they are breaking rules, nonetheless... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of 6440 Auto Parts Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS One would think that if such rule benders exist they would be mentioned in the ntsb reports as the cause of their demise. Are there any such reports ? Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > Course, there is another issue involved... > > To my knowledge, all of the hand-held GPS units are "VFR only". > > But you don't have to do much web surfing to find a lot of "suggestions" > about how to file an IFR flight plan "direct to" based on an "iffy" flight > for 80 miles or so along a VOR radial, then actually flying it using a > hand-held GPS unit. > > So, is it not possible that, as is often the case, a bunch of "rule > benders" > are screwing things up for everybody else? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
(additional insight) I think you're on the right track here, Bob. Anything that prevents that connection from being exceedingly clean will cause a diode effect, and rectification in an RF circuit can cause really nasty intermittent problems.. The kind of problem you take to your avionics guy and say "this squealing only happens when it is raining outside", and he laughs at you. Also the insertion of things into RF transmission lines is not something to be taken lightly. You are changing the impedance at that point, and that will cause some amount of loss. Jim Weir says the amount of loss is insignificant in the case of the IC-ANT-SB, but a poorly constructed switchbox might introduce just enough loss to interfere with one's ability to contact ATC at a distance when it's needed most. Dave Morris At 01:55 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > > >I've been getting some direct e-mails that suggest a need >for further explanation. > >Take a peek at this photo . . . > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg > >I've pointed to the little hunk of exposed brass that is supposed >to maintain connection between the antenna and the panel mounted >comm when the hand held is unplugged. > >This contact is exposed to the environment and not plated >for longevity. Further, the wire connection terminals are >relatively flimsy . . . if you recall - the Shop Notes >I published recommended splicing short, flexible pigtails >to the stub ends of coax center conductors so as to isolate >the switch terminals from potential forcing by the stiffer >coax. > >Alternatives? Maybe. See . . . > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_Jack_2.jpg > >These are ECB mounted, closed circuit jacks. No stresses >will be input to the switch structure due to coax . . . > >See also . . . > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/3p5_mm_jack_schematic.pdf > >Specs for these switches speak to silver plating of some parts. >I need to explore this further. What I'm considering is a small >ECB assembly that mounts one of these jacks and two right angle >BNC jacks to take antenna and transceiver coaxes off the board >and into ships wiring. > >I think this could be a quantum jump up from the Shop Notes design >and perhaps more robust and compact than the ICOM product. We'll >see . . . > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
...
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Would'nt that be nice to have one of those ? I suppose I will just suffer through steering manually in my old cherokee untill I finish my obam, which will have a very nice Trutrak in it. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:03 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE ... In a message dated 2/2/2007 1:55:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, sales(at)6440autoparts.com writes: Yep from what I gather there is a certain individual that has made his own auto pilot for his spam can which is easily removable with no trace. I'm sure that is the first thing he removes before exiting the airplane if any ramp check is suspected. But while daylight is under his wings he is free. Randy True --- And he showed it to me once upon a time. Looked very nice.... And, -- very simple. He told me that he generally removes it and places it on the back seat before landing. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Dave I think you may be preaching to the choir, but the the choir needs it too. I think most of us send in our AOPA dues in hopes that they will solve all of our woes. And they do a good job. Since this was started by the AOPA article I'll bet they will fight it very well. Much better than we as individuals could ever think of doing. So those that are not a member should become one. And those that are can send an email supporting them on this issue. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave N6030X" <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > The problem is that 1/2 to 3/4 of the pilots are too intimidated by the > FAA to do any jumping up and down or screaming. If they weren't, we would > not have ever allowed the situation to become this out of control to begin > with. These are little flying machines, for god's sake, not weapons of > mass destruction! > > For instance, did you know that the ranking member of the US senate > subcommittee on aviation has just asked the head of the TSA to become more > focused on security IN GENERAL AVIATION? That would mean not just spam > cans, but ALL of your airplanes. Can you imagine metal detectors at your > airport? Confiscating your swiss army knives? Background checks for > everybody who goes on a joy ride in your RV-10? > > How much worse is an accident in a Cessna 172 than in a Ford Taurus? How > many more people can a Cherokee kill in one flight accident than a school > bus? Are the electrical systems on school buses regulated as intensely as > those on a Cessna 152? > > I suggest the reason the FAA keeps getting away with taking away more and > more of our freedoms is that pilots in general are such patriots that > we've always felt the government was benevolent, and so we've cut them > more slack. It's time to start looking at these infringements on our > liberties with a bit more suspicion. PMA for a piece of plastic to mount > my GPS in the panel? Give me a frigging break. I'm writing ALL my > congresspeople on this one. > > Dave Morris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS Yes indeed. And then spend a few minutes at www.Senate.gov and www.House.gov and let your elected officials know you are unhappy. If all they ever hear is bland, politically correct official statements from AOPA, they won't know how pissed we are. :) Dave Morris Rebel with a vote At 03:15 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > > > Dave I think you may be preaching to the choir, but the the > choir needs it too. I think most of us send in our AOPA dues in > hopes that they will solve all of our woes. And they do a good job. > Since this was started by the AOPA article I'll bet they will fight > it very well. Much better than we as individuals could ever think > of doing. So those that are not a member should become one. And > those that are can send an email supporting them on this issue. > >Randy > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave N6030X" <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> >To: >Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:22 PM >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION >FOR PORTABLE GPS > > >> >>The problem is that 1/2 to 3/4 of the pilots are too intimidated by >>the FAA to do any jumping up and down or screaming. If they >>weren't, we would not have ever allowed the situation to become >>this out of control to begin with. These are little flying >>machines, for god's sake, not weapons of mass destruction! >> >>For instance, did you know that the ranking member of the US senate >>subcommittee on aviation has just asked the head of the TSA to >>become more focused on security IN GENERAL AVIATION? That would >>mean not just spam cans, but ALL of your airplanes. Can you >>imagine metal detectors at your airport? Confiscating your swiss >>army knives? Background checks for everybody who goes on a joy >>ride in your RV-10? >> >>How much worse is an accident in a Cessna 172 than in a Ford >>Taurus? How many more people can a Cherokee kill in one flight >>accident than a school bus? Are the electrical systems on school >>buses regulated as intensely as those on a Cessna 152? >> >>I suggest the reason the FAA keeps getting away with taking away >>more and more of our freedoms is that pilots in general are such >>patriots that we've always felt the government was benevolent, and >>so we've cut them more slack. It's time to start looking at these >>infringements on our liberties with a bit more suspicion. PMA for >>a piece of plastic to mount my GPS in the panel? Give me a >>frigging break. I'm writing ALL my congresspeople on this one. >> >>Dave Morris > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
A while back, there was a link to the site where messages could be posted to the FAA related to the ill-conceived idea of widening and permanentizing Washington DC's exclusion zone. If someone has that old link, a few dozen, or hundred, emails would lend support to the AOPA efforts. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 6440 Auto Parts Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS --> Dave I think you may be preaching to the choir, but the the choir needs it too. I think most of us send in our AOPA dues in hopes that they will solve all of our woes. And they do a good job. Since this was started by the AOPA article I'll bet they will fight it very well. Much better than we as individuals could ever think of doing. So those that are not a member should become one. And those that are can send an email supporting them on this issue. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave N6030X" <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > The problem is that 1/2 to 3/4 of the pilots are too intimidated by > the > FAA to do any jumping up and down or screaming. If they weren't, we would > not have ever allowed the situation to become this out of control to begin > with. These are little flying machines, for god's sake, not weapons of > mass destruction! > > For instance, did you know that the ranking member of the US senate > subcommittee on aviation has just asked the head of the TSA to become more > focused on security IN GENERAL AVIATION? That would mean not just spam > cans, but ALL of your airplanes. Can you imagine metal detectors at your > airport? Confiscating your swiss army knives? Background checks for > everybody who goes on a joy ride in your RV-10? > > How much worse is an accident in a Cessna 172 than in a Ford Taurus? > How > many more people can a Cherokee kill in one flight accident than a school > bus? Are the electrical systems on school buses regulated as intensely as > those on a Cessna 152? > > I suggest the reason the FAA keeps getting away with taking away more > and > more of our freedoms is that pilots in general are such patriots that > we've always felt the government was benevolent, and so we've cut them > more slack. It's time to start looking at these infringements on our > liberties with a bit more suspicion. PMA for a piece of plastic to mount > my GPS in the panel? Give me a frigging break. I'm writing ALL my > congresspeople on this one. > > Dave Morris ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Folks, there is an alternative, sort of. I recently attempt a business start-up based on a tablet computer and running aviations specific software. I had designed installation hardware and materials that allowed the equipment to be easily removeable, and useable in a variety of platforms. take it from the plane to your car or boat, etc. and simply run the application specific to the activity. The advantages were: not a single use appliance, such as a dedicated gps device (hey, you can send e-mail when you get to your hotel/destination) works with any vehicle or computing situation not permanently attached simple to remove /install for renters or multi-platform-users. I spent a great deal of my money developing some mounting hardware, and during the process learned that other business will steal your ideas as fast as you can come up with them. Including the vendors you contract with to supply the hardware. I currently have 12 of these mounts (cast aluminum, not plastic) and associated hardware for the Itronix tablet. They are smaller and more rugged than anything currently on the market. It took minutes to install or remove. I run RMS flight soft and Vista as primary flight planning and gps mapping and they have XM weather data link support. Vista incorporates a form of synthetic vision in it's display. The Itronix computer is the most expensive part of the system, but it is built to mil-spec, and the hard drive will not crash. It has the option of both touch screen or pen interface. The table will run on it's own power for 6 hrs with extended battery. the GPS and xm weather reciever share a mount (ripped off by propellor head after I tried to buy the bases at whole sale, and he refused to give me a price break, switched to RAM for supplier) This system has the capability of everything you see in any modern glass panel with the exception of TIS, engine monitor and the Mercury flight portable ahrs, but that's another story altogether. The only thing is I ran out of money long before I could finish a better solution to some of RAMs other components, to support the tablet in a wider variety of aircraft. The size and weight of the mil-spec Itronix made a yoke mount possible but marginally pratical. If any of you folks wish to find out more, or help with the last hurdle of mechanicals, we can bring a huge advance to this community by getting the versatility of open computing to GA. The great thing about the computer is you are not limited to one application. With some simple software additons, I'm sure we can get more features together (like engine monitor, and more, no limitations). If anyone would like to participate in exploring this topic further, feel free to contact me. Worst case is I can give you a deal on components for less than I paid wholesale, just to recoup some of my expenditures. I have 2 complete packaged sets of the RMS software and 1 copy of mountain scope I will sell for half retail price. I also have some bluetooth Delome LT-20s in the box. If I'm not mistaken the delorme supports WAAS. Hope I haven't violated any list rules with this, but is seemed somewhat relevent. Craig Smith Aviator Solutions LLC -------- Craig Smith Future CH640 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92436#92436 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: headset - bad mike test proc needed
From: "eedetail" <eedetail(at)qwest.net>
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Folks, the tower's been telling me that I am barely readable - and I was blaming my radio. However, I've been flying another plane lately, and today my mike quit working. I now think that my radio is not bad, but the headset is. Anyone here have a quick and dirty ground test for a mike? I'll be trying a different brand in my plane tonite, but kinda want to double check before springing for a new headset. TimE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92437#92437 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE
GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
There are cops checking for speeders and know who they are. How does the FAA know who is using non certified equipment for flying vor radials ? And are they flying these radials with the gps just for situational awareness while using they're nav for primary, just as all the company's that sell these non cerified units reccomend ? If they are flying the non cert gps as primary how would these rule breakers be sought out ? The only way I can think of is by ntsb reports stating that as a cause. If there are no reports stating this how would the FAA get thier info ? Bill I'm not trying to raise an argument, but I don't see how these dreaded rebel "rule breakers", whoever they are, can be blamed for the FAA coming up with new rules against portable gps's. Please explain I am at a loss. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > Not everyone who drives an automobile faster than the speed limit dies. > > But they are breaking rules, nonetheless... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of 6440 > Auto Parts > Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 2:13 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION > FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > > > One would think that if such rule benders exist they would be > mentioned in the ntsb reports as the cause of their demise. Are there any > such reports ? > > Randy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:34 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION > FOR > PORTABLE GPS > > >> >> >> Course, there is another issue involved... >> >> To my knowledge, all of the hand-held GPS units are "VFR only". >> >> But you don't have to do much web surfing to find a lot of "suggestions" >> about how to file an IFR flight plan "direct to" based on an "iffy" >> flight >> for 80 miles or so along a VOR radial, then actually flying it using a >> hand-held GPS unit. >> >> So, is it not possible that, as is often the case, a bunch of "rule >> benders" >> are screwing things up for everybody else? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS
Date: Feb 02, 2007
Thanks Dave I will send my congressman an email on the matter too. Even though I suspect it will go to their "deleted items" folder. Or I may even send a letter but also suspect it will be filed by one of their aids under "T" for trash can. Sad but probably true. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave N6030X" <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > > Yes indeed. And then spend a few minutes at www.Senate.gov and > www.House.gov and let your elected officials know you are unhappy. If all > they ever hear is bland, politically correct official statements from > AOPA, they won't know how pissed we are. > :) > > Dave Morris > Rebel with a vote > > > At 03:15 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: >> >> >> Dave I think you may be preaching to the choir, but the the choir >> needs it too. I think most of us send in our AOPA dues in hopes that they >> will solve all of our woes. And they do a good job. Since this was >> started by the AOPA article I'll bet they will fight it very well. Much >> better than we as individuals could ever think of doing. So those that >> are not a member should become one. And those that are can send an email >> supporting them on this issue. >> >>Randy >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave N6030X" <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com> >>To: >>Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:22 PM >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR >>PORTABLE GPS >> >> >>> >>> >>>The problem is that 1/2 to 3/4 of the pilots are too intimidated by the >>>FAA to do any jumping up and down or screaming. If they weren't, we >>>would not have ever allowed the situation to become this out of control >>>to begin with. These are little flying machines, for god's sake, not >>>weapons of mass destruction! >>> >>>For instance, did you know that the ranking member of the US senate >>>subcommittee on aviation has just asked the head of the TSA to become >>>more focused on security IN GENERAL AVIATION? That would mean not just >>>spam cans, but ALL of your airplanes. Can you imagine metal detectors at >>>your airport? Confiscating your swiss army knives? Background checks >>>for everybody who goes on a joy ride in your RV-10? >>> >>>How much worse is an accident in a Cessna 172 than in a Ford Taurus? How >>>many more people can a Cherokee kill in one flight accident than a school >>>bus? Are the electrical systems on school buses regulated as intensely >>>as those on a Cessna 152? >>> >>>I suggest the reason the FAA keeps getting away with taking away more and >>>more of our freedoms is that pilots in general are such patriots that >>>we've always felt the government was benevolent, and so we've cut them >>>more slack. It's time to start looking at these infringements on our >>>liberties with a bit more suspicion. PMA for a piece of plastic to mount >>>my GPS in the panel? Give me a frigging break. I'm writing ALL my >>>congresspeople on this one. >>> >>>Dave Morris >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2007
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR
PORTABLE GPS I think the way you get caught is to fly an IFR GPS approach and then get ramp checked where the enforcement official finds only VFR GPS onboard. According to my CFI, that happened at least once at an airport he knows where the FAA basically camped out during bad weather and checked every aircraft as it exited the active runway. Enroute, on the other hand, if you file direct you can fly it any way you want to, including pilotage, and who's to know whether you used your Nav radios or your dangerously unapproved GPS. Throw in a VOR in each ARTCC sector for good measure, and I think there's no way to know. Dave Morris At 04:36 PM 2/2/2007, you wrote: > > > There are cops checking for speeders and know who they > are. How does the FAA know who is using non certified equipment for > flying vor radials ? And are they flying these radials with the gps > just for situational awareness while using they're nav for primary, > just as all the company's that sell these non cerified units > reccomend ? If they are flying the non cert gps as primary how > would these rule breakers be sought out ? The only way I can think > of is by ntsb reports stating that as a cause. If there are no > reports stating this how would the FAA get thier info ? Bill I'm > not trying to raise an argument, but I don't see how these dreaded > rebel "rule breakers", whoever they are, can be blamed for the FAA > coming up with new rules against portable gps's. Please explain I am at a loss. > >Randy > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> >To: >Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:28 PM >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT >OPTION FOR PORTABLE GPS > > >> >>Not everyone who drives an automobile faster than the speed limit dies. >> >>But they are breaking rules, nonetheless... >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of 6440 >>Auto Parts >>Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 2:13 PM >>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION >>FOR PORTABLE GPS >> >> >> >> >> One would think that if such rule benders exist they would be >>mentioned in the ntsb reports as the cause of their demise. Are there any >>such reports ? >> >>Randy >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> >>To: >>Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:34 PM >>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION FOR >>PORTABLE GPS >> >> >>> >>> >>>Course, there is another issue involved... >>> >>>To my knowledge, all of the hand-held GPS units are "VFR only". >>> >>>But you don't have to do much web surfing to find a lot of "suggestions" >>>about how to file an IFR flight plan "direct to" based on an "iffy" flight >>>for 80 miles or so along a VOR radial, then actually flying it using a >>>hand-held GPS unit. >>> >>>So, is it not possible that, as is often the case, a bunch of "rule >>>benders" >>>are screwing things up for everybody else? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: headset - bad mike test proc needed
Date: Feb 02, 2007


January 29, 2007 - February 02, 2007

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-gp