AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-gy
May 23, 2007 - June 08, 2007
later analysis. This is the technique used for
crafting the article at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
. . . except that the data acquisition module
used in this test was different than the device
suggested above.
The minimum $time$ route is the West Mountain Radio
product with the AEC cap meter coming in second place.
But if you'd like to acquire some REAL number gathering
capabilities for both battery testing and a host of
other applications, the Weeder Tech/Junk Computer approach
offers a ton of capability for a very low investment.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | High VSWR reading on my antenna lead |
Kevin, the Ham Radio *band*, is a very large frequency spectrum :)....
However, something designed for VHF and in Ham Speak, 2 meters, will work
just fine.
As a side note. Most SWR meters are DC-Daylite and should work just fine.
There are units like a "bird wattmeter" that have specific "slugs" for
specific power settings and frequencies, but if you have an SWR meter that
simply measures forward and reverse power, you should be fine.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: High VSWR reading on my antenna lead
-->
Will a VSWR meter designed for the ham radio band produce valid results with
aviation Com frequencies?
Kevin Horton
"Robert Feldtman" wrote:
> borrow a known good meter from a ham in the area. make sure you set
> the forward power to exactly full deflection, then read the reflected
> power. you may have the gain set way too high. If it is 9 to one the
> radio would have detected this on it's own and decreased the power. I
> suspect the meter is bad or you don't have it adjusted right. get a
> ham to help you. Don't spend more money - get a ham to help you
>
> bobf
> W5RF and glastar owner
>
> ps - don't do it in the hangar - too much metal. roll it outside away
> from the hanger more than 30 feet or so
>
> On 5/22/07, James Beeghly wrote:
> >
> > In the process of building up the avionics for our Wag Aero Super
> > Sport I reached that point where I was ready to power up the used King
KY 97A Comm.
> > I had fabricated about a 10 - 12 foot long antenna lead using
> > RG-400 and BNC connectors purchased from B&C (and assembled with a
> > RCT-2 coax crimping tool also from B&C) to connect the comm to a
> > used Cessna antenna (came from a 172.) I plugged in the headset, turned
on the radio, and all seemed well.
> > I listened (from inside the hanger) to airport traffic. I briefly
> > keyed the mike and heard myself on the scanner across the hanger.
> >
> > Then I turned off the radio and connected a DAIWA CN 720B SWR meter
> > in the antenna circuit. this involved undoing the BNC connector
> > from the back of the tray (The tray itself is fitted with a bulkhead
> > type of female BNC connector so this was no problem.) The 720 B is a
> > cross needle meter rated up to 150 MHz and with a 5 watt range at
> > the lower end. It has two SO-239 connectors on the back, one marked
> > antenna and one transmitter. I had gotten converters to use BNC
> > connectors and had purchased a radio shack premade RG-58 cable, about 6
feet long, to patch the meter to the radio.
> > The antenna lead connected to the Antenna connector on the 720 B.
> >
> > My understanding (I bought this meter on E-bay and do not yet have a
> > manual - one is ordered) is that reading VSWR is a matter of pushing
> > transmit and finding the VSWR line corresponding to where the two
> > needles intersect as they measure forward and reflected watts. If
> > this is correct, my system has a VSWR of 9 or 10. Needless to say,
> > I did not hold the transmit button down for long.
> >
> > I know that I am looking for a VSWR as close to 1 as possible, so
> > this is not acceptable. I don't quite know what to do next. I do
> > not see a way to calibrate the meter. My understanding is that this
kind of meter is not
> > supposed to need calibration. I do not see what I could have done
wrong in
> > constructing the antenna lead to get this kind of VSWR.
> >
> > I did try another experiment. I took my JVC handheld, and put the
> > meter between it and the whip antenna. There was barely enough
> > power to read VSWR, but it was still in the 9 or 10 range. I then
> > measured VSWR using the JVC feeding the antenna lead and Cessna
> > antenna. The reading for forward power was clearly improved, but the
VSWR was still at the same high level.
> > These results make me wonder if there isn't something wrong with the
> > meter (or my measuring technique.)
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for what to consider next? As you
> > can no doubt tell, I am new to this. Thanks.
> >
> > Jim Beeghly
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: High VSWR reading on my antenna lead |
Worked for us. Exact numbers are going to be incorrect but the relative deflection
is still valid. ie, it will still read toward the "bad" end if there's a
lot of reflection and read more towards the "good" end of the scale after you
fix a problem but won't tell you just how good your SWR really is if you are
anal about your exact number...
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>
> Will a VSWR meter designed for the ham radio band produce valid results with
> aviation Com frequencies?
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> "Robert Feldtman" wrote:
>
> > borrow a known good meter from a ham in the area. make sure you set the
> > forward power to exactly full deflection, then read the reflected power. you
> > may have the gain set way too high. If it is 9 to one the radio would have
> > detected this on it's own and decreased the power. I suspect the meter is
> > bad or you don't have it adjusted right. get a ham to help you. Don't spend
> > more money - get a ham to help you
> >
> > bobf
> > W5RF and glastar owner
> >
> > ps - don't do it in the hangar - too much metal. roll it outside away from
> > the hanger more than 30 feet or so
> >
> > On 5/22/07, James Beeghly wrote:
> > >
> > > In the process of building up the avionics for our Wag Aero Super Sport I
> > > reached that point where I was ready to power up the used King KY 97A Comm.
> > > I had fabricated about a 10 - 12 foot long antenna lead using RG-400 and
> > > BNC connectors purchased from B&C (and assembled with a RCT-2 coax crimping
> > > tool also from B&C) to connect the comm to a used Cessna antenna (came from
> > > a 172.) I plugged in the headset, turned on the radio, and all seemed well.
> > > I listened (from inside the hanger) to airport traffic. I briefly keyed
> > > the mike and heard myself on the scanner across the hanger.
> > >
> > > Then I turned off the radio and connected a DAIWA CN 720B SWR meter in the
> > > antenna circuit. this involved undoing the BNC connector from the back of
> > > the tray (The tray itself is fitted with a bulkhead type of female BNC
> > > connector so this was no problem.) The 720 B is a cross needle meter rated
> > > up to 150 MHz and with a 5 watt range at the lower end. It has two SO-239
> > > connectors on the back, one marked antenna and one transmitter. I had
> > > gotten converters to use BNC connectors and had purchased a radio shack
> > > premade RG-58 cable, about 6 feet long, to patch the meter to the radio.
> > > The antenna lead connected to the Antenna connector on the 720 B.
> > >
> > > My understanding (I bought this meter on E-bay and do not yet have a
> > > manual - one is ordered) is that reading VSWR is a matter of pushing
> > > transmit and finding the VSWR line corresponding to where the two needles
> > > intersect as they measure forward and reflected watts. If this is correct,
> > > my system has a VSWR of 9 or 10. Needless to say, I did not hold the
> > > transmit button down for long.
> > >
> > > I know that I am looking for a VSWR as close to 1 as possible, so this is
> > > not acceptable. I don't quite know what to do next. I do not see a way to
> > > calibrate the meter. My understanding is that this kind of meter is not
> > > supposed to need calibration. I do not see what I could have done wrong in
> > > constructing the antenna lead to get this kind of VSWR.
> > >
> > > I did try another experiment. I took my JVC handheld, and put the meter
> > > between it and the whip antenna. There was barely enough power to read
> > > VSWR, but it was still in the 9 or 10 range. I then measured VSWR using the
> > > JVC feeding the antenna lead and Cessna antenna. The reading for forward
> > > power was clearly improved, but the VSWR was still at the same high level.
> > > These results make me wonder if there isn't something wrong with the meter
> > > (or my measuring technique.)
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any suggestions for what to consider next? As you can no
> > > doubt tell, I am new to this. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jim Beeghly
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
Worked for us. Exact numbers are going to be incorrect but the relative deflection
is still valid. ie, it will still read toward the "bad" end if
there's a lot of reflection and read more towards the "good"
end of the scale after you fix a problem but won't tell you
just how good your SWR really is if you are anal about your exact number...
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: Kevin Horton
>
> Will a VSWR meter
designed for the ham radio band produce valid results with
> aviation
Com frequencies?
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> On Wed, 23
> > borrow a known good meter from a ham in the area. make sure
you set the
> > forward power to exactly full deflection, then read
the reflected power. you
> > may have the gain set way too high.
If it is 9 to one the radio would have
> > detected this on it's own
and decreased the power. I suspect the meter is
> > bad or you don't
have it adjusted right. get a ham to help you. Don
't spe
nd
> > more money - get a ham to help you
> >
> >
bobf
> > W5RF and glastar owner
> >
> > ps - don't
do it in the hangar - too much metal. roll it outside away from
> >
the hanger more than 30 feet or so
> >
> > On 5/22/07,
James Beeghly wrote:
> > >
> >
> In the process of building up the avionics for our Wag Aero Super Sport
I
> > > reached that point where I was ready to power up the used
King KY 97A Comm.
> > > I had fabricated about a 10 - 12 foot long
antenna lead using RG-400 and
> > > BNC connectors purchased from
B&C (and assembled with a RCT-2 coax crimping
> > > tool
also from B&C) to connect the comm to a used Cessna antenna (came from
>
> > a 172.) I plugged in the headset, turned on the radio, and all
seemed well.
> > > I listened (from ins
ide th
e hanger) to airport traffic. I briefly keyed
> > > the mike and heard
myself on the scanner across the hanger.
> > >
> >
> Then I turned off the radio and connected a DAIWA CN 720B SWR meter in the
> > > antenna circuit. this involved undoing the BNC connector
from the back of
> > > the tray (The tray itself is fitted with
a bulkhead type of female BNC
> > > connector so this was no problem.)
The 720 B is a cross needle meter rated
> > > up to 150 MHz
and with a 5 watt range at the lower end. It has two SO-239
> > >
connectors on the back, one marked antenna and one transmitter. I had
>
> > gotten converters to use BNC connectors and had purchased a radio
shack
> > > premade RG-58 cable, about 6 feet long, to patch the
meter to the radio.
> > > The antenna lead connected to the Antenna
connector on the 720 B.
> > >
&g
t; >
; > My understanding (I bought this meter on E-bay and do not yet have a
>
> > manual - one is ordered) is that reading VSWR is a matter of pushing
> > > transmit and finding the VSWR line corresponding to
where the two needles
> > > intersect as they measure forward and
reflected watts. If this is correct,
> > > my system has a VSWR
of 9 or 10. Needless to say, I did not hold the
> > > transmit button
down for long.
> > >
> > > I know that I am looking
for a VSWR as close to 1 as possible, so this is
> > > not acceptable.
I don't quite know what to do next. I do not see a way to
>
> > calibrate the meter. My understanding is that this kind of meter is
not
> > > supposed to need calibration. I do not see what I could
have done wrong in
> > > constructing the antenna lead to get this
kind of VSWR.
> > >
> > >
; I di
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ni-Cad Capacity check |
>
>>
>>Does anyone have a schematic for a capacity checker for small batteries like
>>Ni-Cads, etc.
>
>Here is a link to a NiCad/NiMh capacity tester. Not as capable as the West Mountain
product but less money and self contained. I have used the tester and
it performs as advertised.
http://www.siriuselectronics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=123
Chris Stone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: High VSWR reading on my antenna lead |
>
>Will a VSWR meter designed for the ham radio band produce valid results
>with aviation Com frequencies?
>
>Kevin Horton
Some do, some don't. I recall a lot of wasted $time$ many moons
ago when building a new colinear array for use on our repeater
installation at the 1200 foot platform of KTVH in Hutchinson
KS. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/KTVH.gif
Glen Brasch and I worked for several days bending aluminum drilling
brackets, bolting elements and cutting coax for the feedline transformers.
Each step of the way was checked with a reflectometer style SWR
meter . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/SWR/SWR_Sometimes_4.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWR_meter
. . . and we thought we were doing really good work as each step
of the process produced an excellent SWR reading. Imagine our
dismay when the assembled array tested with anther meter
( A Bird Model 43)
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Bird_43.jpg
called it less than the best we should expect. Bottom line
is that there are easy mistakes to be made in the design
and assembly of many test instruments with those crafted
for use at high RF frequencies being strong candidates
for obtuse behavior. Just 'cause the label says so don't
make it so.
I dumped my $low$ reflectometer in the trash and bought
a Bird. If it's important to know what the numbers are,
its a safe bet to go with the repeatable experiments like
Tektronix, HP, Bird, Fluke, etc. This doesn't mean you
can't find good value in other brands . . . but if there
is doubt and the expenditure of $time$ is a critical part
of your efforts, the repeatable experiments are often the
most economical choices in spite of their higher prices
off-the-shelf.
Here's a montage of examples for repeatable experiments
-AND- experiments to be tested for repeatability in
the world of RF instrumentation . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/SWR/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: High VSWR reading on my antenna lead |
That depends on the frequency range it's designed for. If it's for 0-30MHz
(most el-cheapo VSWR's and CB stuff) then there's a big chance that it won't
work. If you get one designed for 2m (144-148MHz) then you should have no
problems gettng an accurate VSWR reading. Power readings will most likely be
unreliable though, except if you use something professional like the Bird
model that Bob mentioned.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: High VSWR reading on my antenna lead
>
>
> Will a VSWR meter designed for the ham radio band produce valid results
> with aviation Com frequencies?
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> "Robert Feldtman" wrote:
>
>> borrow a known good meter from a ham in the area. make sure you set the
>> forward power to exactly full deflection, then read the reflected power.
>> you
>> may have the gain set way too high. If it is 9 to one the radio would
>> have
>> detected this on it's own and decreased the power. I suspect the meter is
>> bad or you don't have it adjusted right. get a ham to help you. Don't
>> spend
>> more money - get a ham to help you
>>
>> bobf
>> W5RF and glastar owner
>>
>> ps - don't do it in the hangar - too much metal. roll it outside away
>> from
>> the hanger more than 30 feet or so
>>
>> On 5/22/07, James Beeghly wrote:
>> >
>> > In the process of building up the avionics for our Wag Aero Super Sport
>> > I
>> > reached that point where I was ready to power up the used King KY 97A
>> > Comm.
>> > I had fabricated about a 10 - 12 foot long antenna lead using RG-400
>> > and
>> > BNC connectors purchased from B&C (and assembled with a RCT-2 coax
>> > crimping
>> > tool also from B&C) to connect the comm to a used Cessna antenna (came
>> > from
>> > a 172.) I plugged in the headset, turned on the radio, and all seemed
>> > well.
>> > I listened (from inside the hanger) to airport traffic. I briefly
>> > keyed
>> > the mike and heard myself on the scanner across the hanger.
>> >
>> > Then I turned off the radio and connected a DAIWA CN 720B SWR meter in
>> > the
>> > antenna circuit. this involved undoing the BNC connector from the back
>> > of
>> > the tray (The tray itself is fitted with a bulkhead type of female BNC
>> > connector so this was no problem.) The 720 B is a cross needle meter
>> > rated
>> > up to 150 MHz and with a 5 watt range at the lower end. It has two
>> > SO-239
>> > connectors on the back, one marked antenna and one transmitter. I had
>> > gotten converters to use BNC connectors and had purchased a radio shack
>> > premade RG-58 cable, about 6 feet long, to patch the meter to the
>> > radio.
>> > The antenna lead connected to the Antenna connector on the 720 B.
>> >
>> > My understanding (I bought this meter on E-bay and do not yet have a
>> > manual - one is ordered) is that reading VSWR is a matter of pushing
>> > transmit and finding the VSWR line corresponding to where the two
>> > needles
>> > intersect as they measure forward and reflected watts. If this is
>> > correct,
>> > my system has a VSWR of 9 or 10. Needless to say, I did not hold the
>> > transmit button down for long.
>> >
>> > I know that I am looking for a VSWR as close to 1 as possible, so this
>> > is
>> > not acceptable. I don't quite know what to do next. I do not see a
>> > way to
>> > calibrate the meter. My understanding is that this kind of meter is
>> > not
>> > supposed to need calibration. I do not see what I could have done
>> > wrong in
>> > constructing the antenna lead to get this kind of VSWR.
>> >
>> > I did try another experiment. I took my JVC handheld, and put the
>> > meter
>> > between it and the whip antenna. There was barely enough power to read
>> > VSWR, but it was still in the 9 or 10 range. I then measured VSWR
>> > using the
>> > JVC feeding the antenna lead and Cessna antenna. The reading for
>> > forward
>> > power was clearly improved, but the VSWR was still at the same high
>> > level.
>> > These results make me wonder if there isn't something wrong with the
>> > meter
>> > (or my measuring technique.)
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any suggestions for what to consider next? As you can
>> > no
>> > doubt tell, I am new to this. Thanks.
>> >
>> > Jim Beeghly
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test |
I don't get it...........I thought the purpose of the capacity test was to
see how long the ship's battery could power the essential bus & stay above
10.5 Volts. If the amount of time this takes is within the pilot's zone of
comfort (i.e. enough to land safely), then the battery is deemed sufficient.
Any battery's ability to start an engine is tested at each startup.
Assuming the above is true, I don't see what this particular test
accomplished. Can someone explain what I'm missing?
Thanks,
Grant
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
Based on the recent discussions of battery capacity, I decided to put
my six year old Odessey PC-680 battery through a poor man's capacity
test. I started with a fully charged battery which read 12.7 volts at
the beginning of the test. I turned on my aircraft main bus with all
the avionics, gyros, engine monitor (VM-1000), instruments, and
instrument lights - ON. The electronic ignition, nav lights, and
strobes were left OFF (aircraft on the ground.) After 20 minutes the
voltage was down to 12.1 volts. The engine was then started (cold
start and it took two tries to get it going.) The electronic ignition
and electric boost pump were turned ON; however, the alternator was
intentionally left OFF. The engine was run for three or four minutes
and shut down. The aircraft then sat for another 35 minutes with the
main bus, avionics, etc., left ON though the ignition and boost pump
were turned OFF. The lowest battery voltage was 11.4 volts. After a
full hour of battery only operation, the engine was again started
with no problems. The alternator was turned on after the second
engine start and the bus voltage read 13.8. (I forgot to check the
amperage, which is basically an alternator loadmeter.) The engine was
only run for about three minutes. After engine shutdown, the battery
voltage was back up to 12.4 and the test ended.
Pretty good battery I think. Based on the age of my PC-680, I really
didn't expect this kind of performance.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your
changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm
not sure the images in my head based on your words
match the reality of your proposal.
Bob . . .
>
>
>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the crowbar
>CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic
>ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home
>and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>
>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I
>have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>
>
>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
>running the starter current through two series relays ?
>
>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from
>alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor which
>connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus.
>
>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from the
>master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the
>current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the
>master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is limited
>by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed
>out to the engine bay.
>
>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each
>with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus
>alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a feel
>good feature.
>
>
>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to eat
>humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>
>Circuit details follow :
>
>Peter
>
>
>image002.jpg
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic- Was : Re: We can't build our own avionics |
John Burnaby wrote:
> Despite the dearth of applicable information for homebuilders in SA,
> and that AOPA Pilot unabashedly promotes trainer aircraft that cost
> more than my house, I still pay my dues to support the EAA and AOPA. I
> do this because general aviation is under assault on myriad
> fronts. The public perception of private aircraft is one of
> exclusivity, an arena reserved for the wealthy. Anything that excludes
> the lazy and unimaginative, that celebrates creativity, possibility
> and industry, is frightening to a lot of people because it challenges
> them to shut-off the TV and learn something. That takes effort and I
> think, unfortunately, most people don't want to stray very far from
> the comfort zone of what they know and repeat. It's easier to dismiss
> homebuilders and non-commercial pilots as crazy than to go to the
> airport and talk to one about flying and building.
> Inspite of the condescending, cornball, syrupy image of a family
> affair promoted by the EAA, I support the organization because I am
> convinced that private aviation and legal homebuilding would simply
> vanish without the cumulative efforts of AOPA and EAA. The two
> organizations are microphones for a collective voice, amplifying the
> message of our passionate group. They are the glue that keeps our
> spinning, aviating world cohesive, staving off the centrifugal forces
> that would fragment us into meaningless pieces. Without them, I fear,
> the few letters that may arrive on congressional desks, supportive and
> protective of our passion, will be drowned in a tide seeking
> conformity and banality. So, I say send in your dues, and let the EAA
> and AOPA put on the smiley face and the suit that allows us to do the
> putative job of the EAA; experimenting, sharing information,
> camaraderie, and advancing aviation technology.
Good words, John. EAA and AOPA do provide necessary functions, but they
will spin off into the mind-numbed, TV-viewing masses if we let them.
The subject article being a prime example. The only response is to
scream until the usurpers who would lead us down that path scurry back
into their holes.
I don't want to write a freakin' article. I want to build my airplane,
and have EAA provide me with some help in that goal. That attitude
places me dead square in the middle of the MTV generation. "My needs.
My needs," I cry, along with the rest of the mind-numbed. And I'm not
alone. Builder's everywhere are hunkered down in their garages,
expecting someone else to look after their interests. But we can't do
that. We all want a revolution, where the productive, intelligent, and
demonstrably capable come out on top, but we want someone else to lead
and fight the battles.
That won't happen. The president of the organization has never built
anything. The leadership can't find the funds to build a friggin' WIND
TUNNEL, but there's cash enough to purchase and operate a P-51 for said
president to have joy rides in. Meanwhile, has the CAFE Foundation done
ANYTHING since getting a mogas STC for certified planes? These are not
the priorities of experimenters trying to expand on the best we know how
to do. You aren't fighting an organization of experimenters gone
astray. You're fighting a rising wave of conformity and banality
washing in from the outside and threatening to swamp us all. They try
to tell us that the EAA has grown to be something larger than it used to
be. I say that it has shrunk to be much less, nothing more than the
Disneyland of airplanes.
If we let the nonsense published in the subject article go unanswered,
then our collective voice will be saying that we're not capable of
building an entire airplane. We need to be circumvented and have
artificial fences erected around us. It may be to late. The
condescending cornballs may have won already, in which case legal
homebuilding as we know it will eventually vanish. "Homebuilding" will
amount to nothing more than showing up for a two week 'quick-build'
vacation at a kit factory, where you install your selection of off the
shelf components in a pre-molded shell of an aircraft. Of course, you
can a Lindsy at a flyin, because you chose the best paint scheme from
those available.
Bob fought back till he lost interest. I know others who simply have no
interest in such activities. However, I've generated a LOT of
inter-activity in builders from my local chapter by just sending out a
lunch invitation by email. If not for that interest, I'd drop my EAA
membership this year. I have little more than a couple articles in me,
but I'll give what I have. If the cornballs have won, I'll look to
organize and join "HAA!" (Homebuilder's Aviation Alliance...we laugh at
you!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Bob,
I'd asked this question a week ago and never got a reply that offered a
plausible explanation, so I'm trying again...
I have a Z-19 (2 batt, 1 alt) architecture, modified a bit for a Subaru
engine, with rear mounted Odyssey batteries. I have 2 lighter
receptacles on the panel, each wired to a battery hot bus through a 10a
fuse. I attached a couple of lighter plugs on my Battery Tender Jr. as
a convenient way to charge the batteries.
The Problem: I can insert and remove a 'hot' charger plug to one battery
at a time with no problem. However once I insert both plugs (and both
batteries are charging), and then remove one plug, the fuse on the other
circuit blows. This is a repeatable experiment. Once both plugs are
inserted, the only way I can remove them is to either unplug the
charger, or unplug the charging plugs from the charger (the output wire
has a plug to enable different endings to be attached).
Can you explain the physics of why the fuse blows when one plug is
removed?
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
RV-7A
Rochester Hills, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Wiring Diag for GTX327 |
Thanks to all that responded I did not realise that it would be so
simple.
Thanks again
Norman
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gaye
and Vaughn
Sent: 22 May 2007 08:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Diag for GTX327
Here is a link to the installation manual that I found.....Vaughn
http://aviation.vortex.is/install/Garmin%20Install%20manuals/GTX-327.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Stapelberg" <norshel(at)mweb.co.za>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Diag for GTX327
>
>
> I wonder if some could help out, I am busy fitting a Garmin GTX327
> Transponder in a friends plane, as luck would have it he has misplaced
> the manuals I have managed to download the operation manual, but am
some
> what stuck for the wiring side.
>
> Thanks
>
> Norman Stapelberg
> South Africa
> RV7 Fuselage 50%
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo
lists I know best.
I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil
resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more
sense?
But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if
the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about
the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar.
Thanks,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your
changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm
not sure the images in my head based on your words
match the reality of your proposal.
Bob . . .
>
>
>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the crowbar
>CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic
>ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home
>and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>
>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I
>have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>
>
>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
>running the starter current through two series relays ?
>
>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from
>alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor which
>connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus.
>
>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from the
>master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the
>current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the
>master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is limited
>by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed
>out to the engine bay.
>
>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each
>with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus
>alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a feel
>good feature.
>
>
>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to eat
>humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>
>Circuit details follow :
>
>Peter
>
>
>image002.jpg
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
>
>
>Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo
>lists I know best.
>I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil
>resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more
>sense?
>But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if
>the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about
>the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar.
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
> It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your
> changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm
> not sure the images in my head based on your words
> match the reality of your proposal.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >
> >
> >First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the crowbar
> >CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic
> >ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home
> >and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
> >
> >I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I
> >have wandered astray a bit as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
> >battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
> >contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
> >alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
> >running the starter current through two series relays ?
You're stirring the recipe for success again . . . Starter contactors
are downstream of battery contactors so that should a starter contactor
stick, you still have a way to shut the starter off. This has been done
on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for almost 100 years.
> >
> >2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from
> >alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor which
> >connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus.
> >
> >3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from the
> >master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the
> >current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the
> >master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is limited
> >by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed
> >out to the engine bay.
> >
> >4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
> >access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each
> >with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus
> >alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
> >alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
> >choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a feel
> >good feature.
I'm having trouble understanding what you think you're gaining with
the diodes thing . . .
But it's your airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
>
>
>Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo
>lists I know best.
Don know about the Yahoo Lists but Matronics List will accept them.
>I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil
>resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more
>sense?
>But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if
>the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about
>the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar.
The crowbar OVM draws current only for milliseconds but it is
high. On the order of 100-150 amps so that upstream break is
opened in 10-20 milliseconds . . . then all the nonsense stops
as breaker opens, current goes to zero, relay opens and alternator
is shut down.
Go to the website and search on "crowbar" for an explanation
and a variety of discussions on how it works.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Flighttech Intercom & Microair 760 |
I have been helping a friend who owns a Zenith 601 with Flighttech
ITC-402P and Microair 760 which would not function properly. The
intercom would work fine, radio transmissions could be received, but the
transmit function was weak or non existent.
After bunches of trouble shooting, rewiring, returning both units to
have them analyzed for problems (twice!!!), we finally got them working.
Rick Lord at Erie Avionics http://www.erieaviation.com/ figured out
what the problem was. He wired the radio and intercom together and
noted that the Flighttech was not pulling the PTT line down to ground as
required by the Microair. Rick added a couple of diodes and fixed the
problem.
If you are having similar problems, contact Rick Lord at Erie Avionics
or http://www.flighttech.com/contact_us.htm
THANKS to Rick Lord for his patience and finally figuring this out!!!!!
Ronnie Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test |
Grant, et.al.,
I set out to test my battery endurance, though I stopped the test
after an hour and before reaching 10.5 volts. After a full hour
powering my Main Bus and two engine starts, the battery still had
11.4 volts. Thus, it was obvious to me that the battery would have
stayed above 10.5 volts for another 30 minutes or more, or even
longer if I had only used the Essential Bus. That is well within my
zone of comfort. The engine starts were just additional drains on
the battery and without them, I would have expected the endurance to
have been even greater.
The point of my post was to highlight the performance of a six year
old Odyssey PC-680.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
-----------------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
>
>
> I don't get it...........I thought the purpose of the capacity test
> was to
> see how long the ship's battery could power the essential bus &
> stay above
> 10.5 Volts. If the amount of time this takes is within the pilot's
> zone of
> comfort (i.e. enough to land safely), then the battery is deemed
> sufficient.
> Any battery's ability to start an engine is tested at each startup.
>
> Assuming the above is true, I don't see what this particular test
> accomplished. Can someone explain what I'm missing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant
>
>
> From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
>
>
> Based on the recent discussions of battery capacity, I decided to put
> my six year old Odessey PC-680 battery through a poor man's capacity
> test. I started with a fully charged battery which read 12.7 volts at
> the beginning of the test. I turned on my aircraft main bus with all
> the avionics, gyros, engine monitor (VM-1000), instruments, and
> instrument lights - ON. The electronic ignition, nav lights, and
> strobes were left OFF (aircraft on the ground.) After 20 minutes the
> voltage was down to 12.1 volts. The engine was then started (cold
> start and it took two tries to get it going.) The electronic ignition
> and electric boost pump were turned ON; however, the alternator was
> intentionally left OFF. The engine was run for three or four minutes
> and shut down. The aircraft then sat for another 35 minutes with the
> main bus, avionics, etc., left ON though the ignition and boost pump
> were turned OFF. The lowest battery voltage was 11.4 volts. After a
> full hour of battery only operation, the engine was again started
> with no problems. The alternator was turned on after the second
> engine start and the bus voltage read 13.8. (I forgot to check the
> amperage, which is basically an alternator loadmeter.) The engine was
> only run for about three minutes. After engine shutdown, the battery
> voltage was back up to 12.4 and the test ended.
>
> Pretty good battery I think. Based on the age of my PC-680, I really
> didn't expect this kind of performance.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test |
Thanks, Charlie.
I have been flying with one Odyssey PC680 - 14 1/2lbs after getting rid of
my 2 Concord RGC 25 AH batteries each weighing 22 1/2 lbs - can you say 44
lbs of battery. One went bad after 6 months and I replaced them with 2
Odyssey. After flying with 2 Odyssey for 3 years, I finally removed one and
have been flying with one for 3 years.
A battery than can give that kind of performance after six years is the
battery for me.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Brame" <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
>
> Grant, et.al.,
>
> I set out to test my battery endurance, though I stopped the test after
> an hour and before reaching 10.5 volts. After a full hour powering my
> Main Bus and two engine starts, the battery still had 11.4 volts. Thus,
> it was obvious to me that the battery would have stayed above 10.5 volts
> for another 30 minutes or more, or even longer if I had only used the
> Essential Bus. That is well within my zone of comfort. The engine starts
> were just additional drains on the battery and without them, I would have
> expected the endurance to have been even greater.
>
> The point of my post was to highlight the performance of a six year old
> Odyssey PC-680.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>> From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
>>
>>
>> I don't get it...........I thought the purpose of the capacity test was
>> to
>> see how long the ship's battery could power the essential bus & stay
>> above
>> 10.5 Volts. If the amount of time this takes is within the pilot's zone
>> of
>> comfort (i.e. enough to land safely), then the battery is deemed
>> sufficient.
>> Any battery's ability to start an engine is tested at each startup.
>>
>> Assuming the above is true, I don't see what this particular test
>> accomplished. Can someone explain what I'm missing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Grant
>>
>>
>> From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
>>
>>
>> Based on the recent discussions of battery capacity, I decided to put
>> my six year old Odessey PC-680 battery through a poor man's capacity
>> test. I started with a fully charged battery which read 12.7 volts at
>> the beginning of the test. I turned on my aircraft main bus with all
>> the avionics, gyros, engine monitor (VM-1000), instruments, and
>> instrument lights - ON. The electronic ignition, nav lights, and
>> strobes were left OFF (aircraft on the ground.) After 20 minutes the
>> voltage was down to 12.1 volts. The engine was then started (cold
>> start and it took two tries to get it going.) The electronic ignition
>> and electric boost pump were turned ON; however, the alternator was
>> intentionally left OFF. The engine was run for three or four minutes
>> and shut down. The aircraft then sat for another 35 minutes with the
>> main bus, avionics, etc., left ON though the ignition and boost pump
>> were turned OFF. The lowest battery voltage was 11.4 volts. After a
>> full hour of battery only operation, the engine was again started
>> with no problems. The alternator was turned on after the second
>> engine start and the bus voltage read 13.8. (I forgot to check the
>> amperage, which is basically an alternator loadmeter.) The engine was
>> only run for about three minutes. After engine shutdown, the battery
>> voltage was back up to 12.4 and the test ended.
>>
>> Pretty good battery I think. Based on the age of my PC-680, I really
>> didn't expect this kind of performance.
>>
>> Charlie Brame
>> RV-6A N11CB
>> San Antonio
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harry Manvel" <hmanvel(at)manvel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Attitude gyro problem. |
Greg,
In case the other suggestions don't do the trick; I had trouble with my
vacuum horizon for many hours early in the testing phase of my airplane.
It would show a bank when wings were level, usually after a long climb
or descent. Nothing I did solved the problem, until I isolated the gauge
with a rubber tube used as a gasket. This cured it, proving that the
problem was vibration. I then installed one of those "Nu-Lite" lighted
circles in place of the gasket, and it still works perfectly. I guess
it did enough to either dampen the vibrations, or it changed the
frequency at which the gauge would get attacked by it .
Harry Manvel
Defiant N2HM
PTK / Pontiac, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: Puckett, Gregory [DENTK]
To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 6:13 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Attitude gyro problem.
Help!! My attitude indicator is driving me nuts!
The attitude indicator is a RC Allen RCA26AK2 (14v electric) with 8deg
tilt installed in my RV-8.
From the first flight, the indicator showed signs of what I thought
was precession. During constant altitude standard rate turns, when
rolling out to wings level the indicator would show up to 10deg bank in
the opposite direction. While turning at standard rate level altitude,
after 90 deg of hdg change in one direction the indicator would show up
to 5deg of false climb and 5deg of false descent when in the other
direction. BTW, the indicator does not show any bank during turns on the
ground.
I thought, well this thing has been sitting for some time, the
bearings must be bad. I sent the indicator back to Kelly Mfg for repair,
they replaced the bearings and recalibrated. After reinstalling, I still
had the same problem. I suspected that the repair was not sufficient and
sent it back again with no fault found. I still had the same problem in
the airplane after reinstalling.
I checked some things with the A/C such as actual panel tilt, voltage
at the instrument with respect to the instrument ground, noise on the
power in. The only thing I found was that my actual panel tilt was more
like 5.5 deg and not 8. I shimmed the instrument so that it was exactly
8 deg and it did not help the problem at all. I thought for sure,
something must be wrong with the instrument. Kelly mfg agreed to
exchange it for a new manufacture instrument. I still have the same
problem with the new instrument.
I then thought, even though it's a spinning hunk of mass, something
must be interfering with it. I wrapped the case in mu-metal, turned off
all electrical equipment in the panel including both alternators and you
guessed it, I still have the problem. WTF..
What else could possibly be causing this????
Thanks in advance,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Crook <will(at)willcrook.com> |
| Subject: | Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss diode? |
Hi Group:
Quick question: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss diode? I am
mounting the diode on .065 aluminum sheet under the glare shield. Would that
suffice? If I need a heat sink, what size?
Also, what is the most economical/elegant way to step down 12.8 volt ship's power
to 5 volts for an "avionics" cooling fan (i.e., a computer cooling fan from
Radio Shack)? Thanks,
Will Crook
Glastar
Waynesville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Crook <will(at)willcrook.com> |
| Subject: | Bob - please contact me |
Bob K.,
Please email me at wacrook(at)yahoo.com or call me at 828-400-0202 regarding my pitot
tube and pitot tube connector. I am anxious to get it back and installed.
If you've been too busy to work on it, that's fine - I just need it back. Multiple
emails to you directly have been unanswered. I do recall you stating that
you often get way behind on emails. All fine, but please do respond to this.
Hope you & Dr. Dee are doing great. Thank you so very much for your help,
Will Crook
Glastar
Waynesville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can Rotax be self exciting? |
Hello,
I have found two aftermarket products which claim to run without battery
with capacitor only:
http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dgr3.htm switches near the zero
transition and thus produces very low noise. Consider the cooling fins
in comparison to the original Rotax regulator and You may believe it is
a product designed for very long life.
http://www.silent-hektik.com/Duc_R_Rot.htm run Rotax injection which is
electrical dependent. They say that the engine will continue running as
long as it is above 1000rpm with capacitor only.
Hope that helps especially for the 912 / 914 engines
Bob is right once more (:-)
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss |
diode?
The best way to solve this problem would be to buy a 12V cooling fan.
They are readily available - even at Radio Shack (although theirs are
somewhat costly).
Dick Tasker
William Crook wrote:
> Hi Group:
>
> Quick question: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss
> diode? I am mounting the diode on .065 aluminum sheet under the glare
> shield. Would that suffice? If I need a heat sink, what size?
>
> Also, what is the most economical/elegant way to step down 12.8
> volt ship's power to 5 volts for an "avionics" cooling fan (i.e., a
> computer cooling fan from Radio Shack)? Thanks,
>
> Will Crook
> Glastar
> Waynesville, NC
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can Rotax be self exciting? |
The Jabiru PM alternator/ with rectifier regulator also runs when fitted
according to Bob's plan Z note 25 . It is a big advantage for very little
cost.
Peter
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hoffmann
D- Remscheid
Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Can Rotax be self exciting?
Hello,
I have found two aftermarket products which claim to run without battery
with capacitor only:
http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dgr3.htm switches near the zero transition
and thus produces very low noise. Consider the cooling fins in comparison to
the original Rotax regulator and You may believe it is a product designed
for very long life.
http://www.silent-hektik.com/Duc_R_Rot.htm run Rotax injection which is
electrical dependent. They say that the engine will continue running as long
as it is above 1000rpm with capacitor only.
Hope that helps especially for the 912 / 914 engines
Bob is right once more (:-)
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r falstad" <bobair8(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
I'm following the AeroElectric Connection philosophy and using fuses. I
have 29 circuits but only 24 tabs on my fuse block. What is the "best
we know how to do" in this situation? I'd like to think that crimping
two circuits into one Faston is OK but what size fuse should I use and
should I match the relative current draw or pick a higher current draw
circuit to pair with a lower current draw circuit? I intend not to pair
similar items such as radio and transponder so that one blown fuse
doesn't take down all my avionics.
Thanks,
Bob
GlaStar
N248BF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
On 24 May 2007, at 19:46, r falstad wrote:
> I'm following the AeroElectric Connection philosophy and using
> fuses. I have 29 circuits but only 24 tabs on my fuse block. What
> is the "best we know how to do" in this situation? I'd like to
> think that crimping two circuits into one Faston is OK but what
> size fuse should I use and should I match the relative current draw
> or pick a higher current draw circuit to pair with a lower current
> draw circuit? I intend not to pair similar items such as radio and
> transponder so that one blown fuse doesn't take down all my avionics.
The fuse needs to be big enough to comfortably handle the worst case
total load that could be produced by both devices. Then, all wires
fed by that fuse need to be big enough to handle the fuse rating
without overheating. This is because a wiring fault in a single wire
could put as much current as the fuse will deliver without blowing
through that single wire.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Peter
You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great
but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z
diagrams.
You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the
breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out
the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely
blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a
breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects
the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is
a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams
as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp
diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram.
I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor
inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main
battery contactor!
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
> First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
> crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the
> electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I
> had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>
> I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A
> but I have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>
>
>
> 1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
> battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
> contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
> alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
> running the starter current through two series relays ?
>
> 2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery
> from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery
> contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main
> bus.
>
> 3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
> the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that
> the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through
> the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
> limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another
> wire routed out to the engine bay.
>
> 4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
> access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both)
> each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery
> plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
> alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
> choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
> feel good feature.
>
>
>
> I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to
> eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>
> Circuit details follow :
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
The fuse should be sized to protect the smallest awg wire that it
supplies. I have several circuits where a 10 amp fuse feeds two 18 awg
wires. The total current draw is less than 10 amps. If you pick a larger
fuse it can allow the wire to overheat and will not provide the intended
protection.
Ken
r falstad wrote:
> I'm following the AeroElectric Connection philosophy and using fuses.
> I have 29 circuits but only 24 tabs on my fuse block. What is the
> "best we know how to do" in this situation? I'd like to think that
> crimping two circuits into one Faston is OK but what size fuse should
> I use and should I match the relative current draw or pick a higher
> current draw circuit to pair with a lower current draw circuit? I
> intend not to pair similar items such as radio and transponder so that
> one blown fuse doesn't take down all my avionics.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
> GlaStar
> N248BF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flighttech Intercom & Microair 760 |
Ron
I mentioned awhile ago that Flightech knows of this issue with their
older intercoms due to a track error on the circuit board. The diode is
there but wired incorrectly and they should be able to tell you how to
install one jumper wire or repair it for you. Their schematic is
correct but the board has an error. I believe I had to lift one end of
the problem diode and jumper it to the correct place but it was quite
some time ago that I did it.
Actually my board also had a second error that prevented the warning
audio from my EIS from feeding through but they are also aware of that.
I really like the intercom and flightech was easy to work with.
I think that every electronic unit that I purchased had an issue or two
to work through regardless of the manufacturer.
Ken
Ron Brown wrote:
> I have been helping a friend who owns a Zenith 601 with Flighttech
> ITC-402P and Microair 760 which would not function properly. The
> intercom would work fine, radio transmissions could be received, but
> the transmit function was weak or non existent.
>
> After bunches of trouble shooting, rewiring, returning both units to
> have them analyzed for problems (twice!!!), we finally got them
> working. Rick Lord at Erie Avionics
> http://www.erieaviation.com/ figured out what the problem was. He
> wired the radio and intercom together and noted that the Flighttech
> was not pulling the PTT line down to ground as required by the
> Microair. Rick added a couple of diodes and fixed the problem.
>
> If you are having similar problems, contact Rick Lord at Erie Avionics
> or http://www.flighttech.com/contact_us.htm
>
> THANKS to Rick Lord for his patience and finally figuring this out!!!!!
>
> Ronnie Brown
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
The easy way to do a reserve capacity test is to measure normal inflight load and
start the test by turning on sufficient lights etc to reach that loading on
the battery. When the voltage falls below 10.5 stop the clock and recharge the
battery. It is important not to let the voltage get below this for the Odysey
type of battery.
The correct method for a capacity check is to discharge at the 20 hr rate, to 10.5
volts. For a 20 a/hr battery that would mean a load of 1 amp.
if you do the test at higher currents, the capacity is less and their website gives
all the information to compensate.
They are very good batteries I have a set of Gates Cyclon (the predecessor) dated
1990 which I have been using to start a gas turbine, they are only a half volt
behind my PC925 used for the Jabiru 2200.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114675#114675
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Hi Ken,
Not sure if you saw my diagram. I have adopted the S704-1 alternator
disconnect relay with the crowbar across the coil same as Z-21A and Z-25.
The crowbar will shunt the coil and the relay will disconnect.
Instead of earthing the crowbar through the master switch I have set it
direct to earth. In my diagram the alternator relay will close when I close
the master switch which connects the battery to the alt relay diode and
feeds the coil, closing the alt relay.
I raised the question what happens when the regulator fails because if you
look at Z-21A the alt relay opens when the crowbar conducts but it will
close again when the crowbar stops conducting ie the unregulated output will
continue to feed to the coil + shunt crowbar and the crowbar would need to
continue to conduct this energy otherwise the relay will close again. Yes I
guess the diodes would pop.
In Z21-A you would need to manually open the master switch to stop the
process. I don't see any other breaker that would interrupt power to the
relay? (I can see now that my coil earth would not allow this)
Am I missing something?
What do you think Ken ?
Regards
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
Peter
You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great
but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z
diagrams.
You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the
breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out
the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely
blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a
breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects
the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is
a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams
as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp
diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram.
I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor
inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main
battery contactor!
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
> First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
> crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the
> electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I
> had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>
> I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A
> but I have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>
>
>
> 1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
> battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
> contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
> alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
> running the starter current through two series relays ?
>
> 2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery
> from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery
> contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main
> bus.
>
> 3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
> the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that
> the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through
> the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
> limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another
> wire routed out to the engine bay.
>
> 4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
> access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both)
> each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery
> plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
> alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
> choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
> feel good feature.
>
>
>
> I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to
> eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>
> Circuit details follow :
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss |
dio...
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:11:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
retasker(at)optonline.net writes:
The best way to solve this problem would be to buy a 12V cooling fan.
They are readily available - even at Radio Shack (although theirs are
somewhat costly).
>>>
Yep- or try _www.mpja.com_ (http://www.mpja.com) and hunt for "fans"- I'm
having trouble getting their website open right now for a direct link, but look
for items like stock # 16496-FN, for $3, or #16543-FN for $4. These are both
12VDC and 2-3/8" and 3-5/8" square respectively, according to a catalog I have
that is maybe 6 months old.
They sell lots of other cool stuff, and there are other sources like this if
you have a few hours for googlin'...
Mark
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles(at)hotmail.com> |
Try calling around at local auto stereo install shops for discarded parts.
I just happened on one that way. $5. It was in there junk box with a lot
of heat sink AL that he just gave away.
Terry
Velocity
Chasing stray electrons
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Tasker
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C
e-buss diode?
The best way to solve this problem would be to buy a 12V cooling fan.
They are readily available - even at Radio Shack (although theirs are
somewhat costly).
Dick Tasker
William Crook wrote:
> Hi Group:
>
> Quick question: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss
> diode? I am mounting the diode on .065 aluminum sheet under the glare
> shield. Would that suffice? If I need a heat sink, what size?
>
> Also, what is the most economical/elegant way to step down 12.8
> volt ship's power to 5 volts for an "avionics" cooling fan (i.e., a
> computer cooling fan from Radio Shack)? Thanks,
>
> Will Crook
> Glastar
> Waynesville, NC
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
Dear Bobair8:
Yes you can do it and your house does it all over the place. In
fact you could gang more than two if careful.
Before Bob's concept of using modern automotive fuses, most
planes ganged circuits on one protection device, be it fuse or
circuit breaker all the time. How many small Cessna's have 30
fuses or CB's. Its a nice luxury to have an individual "fuse" for
every circuit and has obvious advantages, like when one blows
you lose one item.
However from a safety stand point you can "gang" circuits on
a fuse and it will be as safe and more practical with some
precautions. (Practical means less fuses than the space
shuttle.)
SIMPLICITY (examples)
You could put in ONLY 10 amp fuses in for all circuits and run
as many 18 awg wires and circuits you like, 1, 2 or 3 or more, if
the total is under 10 amps. This is what many planes do. So
you are just putting in bigger but fewer fuses or CB's.
***********************************************
However it is more than the current draw of the items you must
look at. You have to look at wire protection, which is the real
reason for the fuse or CB.
You want (must) make sure the fuse does not exceed the
wires capability.
***********************************************
EXAMPLE:
Say you have 3 items on one fuse and they are each 3.3 amp
with a short wire run. So 22 gage wire is enough for each
individual 3.3 amp run.
(Note: For electrical, 20 awg is a nominal min gauge just for
simplicity and durability. If wiring a large aircraft you would
use 22, 24 and even 26 awg to save weight. For data wiring,
like a transponder 22 awg is fine, making those busy plugs
easier to manage. All my humble opinion, pls no hate mail.)
So a +10 amp fuse would be fine for all three, but you might
go with say the next size up, a 15 amp fuse. Lets say one wire
shorted and the other items where off or drawing min current.
A 22 gage wire would get too hot before fuse blowing a 15 amp
fuse for my comfort (190F?). Now a 22 gauge wire will actually
fuse at 41 amps, but lets say its a "soft short" and the wire
is getting hot but the short is not great enough for the fuse
to blow? You will smell it and 190F might ignite something.
Rule of thumb: 22 awg would use 7 amp, 20 awg = 11 amps
and 18 awg = 16 amp fuses for max chassis wiring. If circuit is
for continuous voltage transmission over long distance, the
wire's current ratings are much lower than above "max.
Again this is all about wire protection than second total current.
The solution is very simple go to 18 awg wire to handle the 16A
load, so each wire at fuse rating is safe, not just the individual
load. Clearly 18 awg is over kill for 3.3 amps over a short length
but perfect for 15 amp fuse. Personally I would pick smaller loads
than 3.3 amps to gang and of course pick non "critical" items.
It's better to match similar ratings together of course,
eg, don't match 8 amps with a bunch of 1/2 amp circuits.
There is nothing keeping you from putting 3 or 4 (one) amp items
on a 5 amp fuse with 20 awg wire. However I would knock it off
at a gang of 3 my self, but there is no rule, just common sense.
CAUTION: Be sure you can lose all items in one shot from a
mission critical standpoint. Now simplify!
George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Two Circuits on One Fuse?
>
>The fuse needs to be big enough to comfortably handle the worst
>case total load that could be produced by both devices.
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can Rotax be self exciting? |
Thanks Richard,
This is very interesting. We'll if it works on a Ducati... Any idea
if there is anything like this available for a Subaru? Does it matter?
Could this be adapted to any electrically dependent system?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hoffmann D- Remscheid
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:39 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Can Rotax be self exciting?
Hello,
I have found two aftermarket products which claim to run without
battery with capacitor only:
http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dgr3.htm switches near the zero
transition and thus produces very low noise. Consider the cooling fins
in comparison to the original Rotax regulator and You may believe it is
a product designed for very long life.
http://www.silent-hektik.com/Duc_R_Rot.htm run Rotax injection
which is electrical dependent. They say that the engine will continue
running as long as it is above 1000rpm with capacitor only.
Hope that helps especially for the 912 / 914 engines
Bob is right once more (:-)
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
| From: | "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com> |
I ganged several of my fuses. I agree with what's been said above so I'll just
stay with a systems approach to add something to the topic.
You didn't say if you are using an E-bus or just a main bus. Your architecture
bears on the process. First, I wouldn't gang anything I would consider appropriate
for an E-bus. Those items are by definition the minimum requirements for
safe continued operation. I wouldn't introduce any chance of sympathetic failure
to my essential systems. Those circuits should be carefully planned to maximize
reliability.
Gang only unrelated items, non essential or those with other backups:
- Gang all your internal lights and panel lights. Carry a flashlight for a backup.
I carry several when night flying including a LED on a neck lanyard.
- Gang your flaps with something such as position lights. You can safely fly without
either in a pinch.
- Gang intermittent items such as trim, taxi lights.
Just some ideas to ponder.
In the end, you can add to your fuse block without really adding to your fuse block.
Run a single fused wire to a terminal block and run individual power runs
from there using in-line fuses. Another method is to run a single wire to all
CB's you may still use. In my plane, I have fuses but decided to install pullable
CBs for pitch and roll trim so I could rapidly locate and turn off the trims
in case of a run away condition. I ran 1 fused wire to the daisy-chained
CBs. Each CB protects its down stream wires and the power run is fused and sized
to feed both CBs.
George, good info.
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114746#114746
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Windhorn" <N1DeltaWhiskey(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse? |
May as well throw in a few more veggies into the soup here.
I am not a fan of "ganging," but would consider it in some cases. If one is
short several fused terminals, I would add another fuse block with a short
supply lead from the supply of the first block or direct from the firewall .
Since I would tolerate only 2-3 of these cases, I would then look for the
low current need equipment, 1-2 amps. Here's the reason. Minimum
recommended wire size is 22 ga which would be protected with a 3 amp or less
fuse. Combining a couple 1 amp devices on this 3 amp fuse would not
increase the need to upsize the wire to either device.
If the combined power need of ganged leads approached or exceeded 3 amps, I
would jump to a 5 amp fuse and change the feed wires to each device ganged
to this fuse from 22 ga to 20 ga.
Anything more than that, give me another buss. They're not expensive.
Ganging larger demand devices may be OK if there is no likelihood they will
be active at the same time, but the fuse needs to be sized to protect the
smallest wire and you must be prepared to not miss those devices in case the
are both powered at the same time and blow a fuse in the process.
Regards, Doug Windhorn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, 25 May, 2007 10:17
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Two Circuits on One Fuse?
>
> I ganged several of my fuses. I agree with what's been said above so I'll
> just stay with a systems approach to add something to the topic.
>
> You didn't say if you are using an E-bus or just a main bus. Your
> architecture bears on the process. First, I wouldn't gang anything I would
> consider appropriate for an E-bus. Those items are by definition the
> minimum requirements for safe continued operation. I wouldn't introduce
> any chance of sympathetic failure to my essential systems. Those circuits
> should be carefully planned to maximize reliability.
>
> Gang only unrelated items, non essential or those with other backups:
> - Gang all your internal lights and panel lights. Carry a flashlight for a
> backup. I carry several when night flying including a LED on a neck
> lanyard.
> - Gang your flaps with something such as position lights. You can safely
> fly without either in a pinch.
> - Gang intermittent items such as trim, taxi lights.
>
> Just some ideas to ponder.
>
> In the end, you can add to your fuse block without really adding to your
> fuse block. Run a single fused wire to a terminal block and run individual
> power runs from there using in-line fuses. Another method is to run a
> single wire to all CB's you may still use. In my plane, I have fuses but
> decided to install pullable CBs for pitch and roll trim so I could rapidly
> locate and turn off the trims in case of a run away condition. I ran 1
> fused wire to the daisy-chained CBs. Each CB protects its down stream
> wires and the power run is fused and sized to feed both CBs.
>
> George, good info.
>
> Jekyll
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114746#114746
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss |
diode?
>Hi Group:
>
>Quick question: Is there a need for a heatsink for the B&C e-buss
>diode? I am mounting the diode on .065 aluminum sheet under the glare
>shield. Would that suffice? If I need a heat sink, what size?
What's your e-bus loads? For 10A or less, mount to any metal surface.
>
>Also, what is the most economical/elegant way to step down 12.8 volt
>ship's power to 5 volts for an "avionics" cooling fan (i.e., a computer
>cooling fan from Radio Shack)? Thanks,
Go with a 12v fan.
http://mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=48&main=46
http://tinyurl.com/ypxuaw
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T072/2002.pdf
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T072/2004.pdf
Three pages of stuff here:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T072/2006-2009.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/2u3db7
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap 12v fans |
>
>
>Try calling around at local auto stereo install shops for discarded parts.
>I just happened on one that way. $5. It was in there junk box with a lot
>of heat sink AL that he just gave away.
Be wary of used fans of any kind in your project. Fans have
quirky service lives, especially in intermittent duty on
airplanes. Put in a NEW fan and be mindful of any increase
in noise that might indicate a bearing getting dry.
I've seen a number of expensive failures preceded by
the failure of an inexpensive or poorly cared for
fan. Not the least of these experiences was with
a computer in my office.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test |
>
>
>Thanks, Charlie.
>
>I have been flying with one Odyssey PC680 - 14 1/2lbs after getting rid
>of my 2 Concord RGC 25 AH batteries each weighing 22 1/2 lbs - can you say
>44 lbs of battery. One went bad after 6 months and I replaced them with 2
>Odyssey. After flying with 2 Odyssey for 3 years, I finally removed one
>and have been flying with one for 3 years.
>
>A battery than can give that kind of performance after six years is the
>battery for me.
>
>Ed
I hear many anecdotal statements about battery life. Will
probably hear a bunch more at OSH this years (I'll be hanging
out in the Concorde Battery booth for awhile and I'm trying
to get a Saturday evening slot in the tents).
The question seldom asked and even less often answered is,
"Does your x-year old battery support minimum equipment loads
for a period of time consistent with you PLANNED recovery
from an in-flight failure of an alternator?"
Just because it's getting the engine started doesn't mean
it's going to be as useful as you would like when the curtain
raises on the play scripted for your own dark-n-stormy-night
story. If you're need for battery performance is governed
by a day-vfr only use of your airplane, then cranking the engine
may be everything you expect the battery to do for you.
However, if you'd like to run a certain bevy of electro-whizzies
reliably for say 3-4 hours after the alternator quits, then
perhaps your battery has been "failed" for several years.
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odessey Battery Capacity Test
I don't get it...........I thought the purpose of the capacity test was to
see how long the ship's battery could power the essential bus & stay above
10.5 Volts. If the amount of time this takes is within the pilot's zone of
comfort (i.e. enough to land safely), then the battery is deemed sufficient.
Any battery's ability to start an engine is tested at each startup.
Assuming the above is true, I don't see what this particular test
accomplished. Can someone explain what I'm missing?
Not sure what knowledge was added by cranking the engine too
but obviously, some level of endurance for the stated list
of appliances was demonstrated too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
>
> Go with a 12v fan.
>
>
Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I
didn't installed it yet.
It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center
avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic
boards mounted behind the panel.
Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch power
to it:
- should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch?
- or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch
(yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the fan
will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch..
- or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a
thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air
temperature behind the panel gets too hot .
In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what
should be that temperature limit?
Comments and suggestions appreciated !
Carlos Trigo
RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
Hello Carlos,
I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it
due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in an
IFR
RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter and
about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit.
I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel
mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if
the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery
and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power switch
or a panel mounted switch.
Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like
a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated
such.
Bill
RV-7 finishing
Lee's Summit, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:06 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
> Go with a 12v fan.
>
>
Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I
didn't installed it yet.
It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center
avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic
boards mounted behind the panel.
Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch
power
to it:
- should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch?
- or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch
(yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the
fan
will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch..
- or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a
thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air
temperature behind the panel gets too hot .
In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what
should be that temperature limit?
Comments and suggestions appreciated !
Carlos Trigo
RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling Fan |
>
>
>>
>> Go with a 12v fan.
>>
>
>Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I
>didn't installed it yet.
>It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center
>avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic
>boards mounted behind the panel.
>Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch
>power to it:
>
> - should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch?
> - or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch
> (yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the
> fan will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch..
> - or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a
> thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air
> temperature behind the panel gets too hot .
>
>In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what
>should be that temperature limit?
Keep it simple. Hot wire it to the e-bus. Any time
any radio is on, the fan is on.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling Fan |
Bill
Can you please post the Cyclone fan dimensions and weight difference.
Has it the same blowing capacity of the Ameri-King?
Carlos
P.S. - if I decide for the thermostatic switch, who knows a source for that
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
>
> Hello Carlos,
>
> I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it
> due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in an
> IFR
> RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter and
> about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit.
>
> I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel
> mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if
> the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery
> and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power switch
> or a panel mounted switch.
>
> Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like
> a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated
> such.
>
> Bill
> RV-7 finishing
> Lee's Summit, MO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
>
>
>Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like
>a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated
>such.
Good thought. Normally, the e-bus has a minimum of radios
on it and when operating e-bus only, cooling would not be
expected to be necessary. I agree, the fan should hot
wire to the main bus.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel De Winter <daniel_de_winter(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Electronics stolen |
To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics,
On May 25, my engine and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT were stolen from
my airceraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium.
The aircraft was severely damaged.
You can find all serial numbers below.
If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP.
I woild be very grateful.
EquipmentDescriptionPart #Serial #
Jabiru 3300 ccEngine 33A559
Electric Gyro Corp.Turn & Bank indicator1394T100-7Z2310-484
United Instruments, INC.Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph)8025185256
United Instruments, INC.Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet)5934PM-3432773
Garmin SL30
NavComm013-00105-0125902119
Garmin GTX330Transponder Mode S010-00230-0184113957
Flightcom 403MCIntercom403mc9796
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EFIS Horizon Series 1Multi Function Display MFD-01-0300145
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EFIS Horizon Series 2Multi Function Display MFD-01-0300246
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EIS6000Engine monitorEIS-6000J15873
VDO Trading AGRPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm)999 165 009021 449
Danny De Winter
PH-DWD
VM-1 Esqual
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
Carlos,
The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe
the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6
oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the
Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday.
An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having
trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course,
he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King
fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I
did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the
exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list
here beats me to it.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
Bill
Can you please post the Cyclone fan dimensions and weight difference.
Has it the same blowing capacity of the Ameri-King?
Carlos
P.S. - if I decide for the thermostatic switch, who knows a source for
that
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
>
> Hello Carlos,
>
> I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it
> due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in
an
> IFR
> RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter
and
> about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit.
>
> I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel
> mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if
> the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery
> and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power
switch
> or a panel mounted switch.
>
> Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems
like
> a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated
> such.
>
> Bill
> RV-7 finishing
> Lee's Summit, MO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling Fan |
Thanks Bill
That is enough for me.
Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on my
shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King.
By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ?
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe
> the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6
> oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the
> Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday.
>
> An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having
> trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course,
> he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King
> fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I
> did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the
> exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list
> here beats me to it.
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
Carlos,
I am mounting the fan on the inside of the left panel rib between the
sub-panel and firewall. There are likely better places, but the full
panel and wiring runs restricted such for my installation.
I didn't have any trouble returning the Ameri-King to ACS even though I
was outside of their 30-day return period and the unit was still in
"new" condition. They said there may be a 15% restocking fee...we'll
see.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
Thanks Bill
That is enough for me.
Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on
my
shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King.
By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ?
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I
believe
> the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of
6
> oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the
> Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday.
>
> An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was
having
> trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of
course,
> he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King
> fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what
I
> did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide
the
> exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list
> here beats me to it.
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Peter
Yes I saw your diagram.
You seem to be missing the point that the purpose of the crowbar ovm is
to pop a circuit breaker which removes power to the relay. The relay
stays unpowered until you manually reset the circuit breaker. Note the 2
amp breaker to the right of the master switch in Z-21A.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
>
>Hi Ken,
>Not sure if you saw my diagram. I have adopted the S704-1 alternator
>disconnect relay with the crowbar across the coil same as Z-21A and Z-25.
>The crowbar will shunt the coil and the relay will disconnect.
>Instead of earthing the crowbar through the master switch I have set it
>direct to earth. In my diagram the alternator relay will close when I close
>the master switch which connects the battery to the alt relay diode and
>feeds the coil, closing the alt relay.
>I raised the question what happens when the regulator fails because if you
>look at Z-21A the alt relay opens when the crowbar conducts but it will
>close again when the crowbar stops conducting ie the unregulated output will
>continue to feed to the coil + shunt crowbar and the crowbar would need to
>continue to conduct this energy otherwise the relay will close again. Yes I
>guess the diodes would pop.
>In Z21-A you would need to manually open the master switch to stop the
>process. I don't see any other breaker that would interrupt power to the
>relay? (I can see now that my coil earth would not allow this)
>Am I missing something?
>What do you think Ken ?
>Regards
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 11:04 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
>
>Peter
>
>You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great
>but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z
>diagrams.
>
>You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the
>breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out
>the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely
>blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a
>breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects
>the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is
>a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams
>as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp
>diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram.
>
>I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor
>inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main
>battery contactor!
>
>Ken
>
>Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
>>crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the
>>electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I
>>had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>>
>>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A
>>but I have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>>
>>
>>
>>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
>>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
>>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
>>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
>>running the starter current through two series relays ?
>>
>>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery
>>from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery
>>contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main
>>bus.
>>
>>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
>>the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that
>>the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through
>>the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
>>limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another
>>wire routed out to the engine bay.
>>
>>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
>>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both)
>>each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery
>>plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
>>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
>>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
>>feel good feature.
>>
>>
>>
>>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to
>>eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>>
>>Circuit details follow :
>>
>>Peter
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Thanks Ken that clears it up somehow I missed that important detail!
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
Peter
Yes I saw your diagram.
You seem to be missing the point that the purpose of the crowbar ovm is
to pop a circuit breaker which removes power to the relay. The relay
stays unpowered until you manually reset the circuit breaker. Note the 2
amp breaker to the right of the master switch in Z-21A.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
>
>Hi Ken,
>Not sure if you saw my diagram. I have adopted the S704-1 alternator
>disconnect relay with the crowbar across the coil same as Z-21A and Z-25.
>The crowbar will shunt the coil and the relay will disconnect.
>Instead of earthing the crowbar through the master switch I have set it
>direct to earth. In my diagram the alternator relay will close when I close
>the master switch which connects the battery to the alt relay diode and
>feeds the coil, closing the alt relay.
>I raised the question what happens when the regulator fails because if you
>look at Z-21A the alt relay opens when the crowbar conducts but it will
>close again when the crowbar stops conducting ie the unregulated output
will
>continue to feed to the coil + shunt crowbar and the crowbar would need to
>continue to conduct this energy otherwise the relay will close again. Yes I
>guess the diodes would pop.
>In Z21-A you would need to manually open the master switch to stop the
>process. I don't see any other breaker that would interrupt power to the
>relay? (I can see now that my coil earth would not allow this)
>Am I missing something?
>What do you think Ken ?
>Regards
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 11:04 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
>
>Peter
>
>You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great
>but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z
>diagrams.
>
>You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the
>breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out
>the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely
>blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a
>breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects
>the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is
>a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams
>as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp
>diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram.
>
>I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor
>inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main
>battery contactor!
>
>Ken
>
>Peter Harris wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
>>crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the
>>electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I
>>had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
>>
>>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A
>>but I have wandered astray a bit as follows:
>>
>>
>>
>>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
>>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
>>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
>>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
>>running the starter current through two series relays ?
>>
>>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery
>>from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery
>>contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main
>>bus.
>>
>>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
>>the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that
>>the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through
>>the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
>>limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another
>>wire routed out to the engine bay.
>>
>>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
>>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both)
>>each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery
>>plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
>>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
>>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
>>feel good feature.
>>
>>
>>
>>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to
>>eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer.
>>
>>Circuit details follow :
>>
>>Peter
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
Thanks Bob,
I like the relay thing because it separates the two sources of power and I
can choose either battery or alternator independently. Same principle as
your note 24 where the bridge rectifier is used to combine two sources for
the job and also used in Z19, also I understand that this idea is accepted
here by CASA as an independent dual circuit.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
>
>Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo
>lists I know best.
>I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil
>resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more
>sense?
>But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if
>the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about
>the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar.
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
> It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your
> changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm
> not sure the images in my head based on your words
> match the reality of your proposal.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >
> >
> >First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
crowbar
> >CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic
> >ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home
> >and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
> >
> >I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I
> >have wandered astray a bit as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
> >battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
> >contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
> >alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
> >running the starter current through two series relays ?
You're stirring the recipe for success again . . . Starter contactors
are downstream of battery contactors so that should a starter contactor
stick, you still have a way to shut the starter off. This has been done
on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for almost 100 years.
> >
> >2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from
> >alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor
which
> >connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus.
> >
> >3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
the
> >master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the
> >current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the
> >master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
limited
> >by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed
> >out to the engine bay.
> >
> >4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
> >access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each
> >with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus
> >alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
> >alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
> >choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
feel
> >good feature.
I'm having trouble understanding what you think you're gaining with
the diodes thing . . .
But it's your airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
All,
In January Bob wrote: "Coax cable length should be minimized for the
lengths commonly used in light aircraft, both type of cable and variability
in length will have no observable effect on performance.", but the Garmin
GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna Cable Types by
length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical. For the 12.5 foot
length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or M17/112. Let me just say
the RG304 seems to be scarce. They do say that any 50 ohm, double shielded
cable may be used, provided it introduces less that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1
ghz including the connector. It is worth asking what that means and how to
measure it? What is being used successfully in the real world? RG400? Jim
Wier seems to still prefer RG58!
The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded
cable either 22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable,
others must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor shielded cable
on B&C. Anyone have a source or recommendation?
Thanks .
Jeff Davidson
Wiring up my CH601-HD/Jabiru 3300/Dynon & Garmin avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 18:13 5/26/2007, you wrote:
>All,
>In January Bob wrote:
>"Coax cable length should be minimized for the lengths commonly
>used in light aircraft, both type of cable and variability in length
>will have no observable effect on performance.", but the Garmin
>GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna Cable
>Types by length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical.
>For the 12.5 foot length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or
>M17/112. Let me just say the RG304 seems to be scarce.
These folks used to carry a good line of coax and stormscope antenna
and control cables,
but their web site looks to be undergoing some major changes.
http://www.ecsdirect.com/
>They do say that any 50 ohm, double shielded cable may be used,
>provided it introduces less that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1 ghz including
>the connector. It is worth asking what that means and how to measure
>it? What is being used successfully in the real world? RG400?
I used 400 with the GTX-33
>Jim Wier seems to still prefer RG58!
>The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded
>cable either
>22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable,
>others must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor
>shielded cable on B&C.
>Anyone have a source or recommendation?
I have some M27500-24ML8TC8
MIL rated open airframe wiring; 8 - 24AWG connectors, shielded,
overall jacket 0.157 dia. 0.41 oz/ft.
Mfg by
BICC Brand Rex
P.O. Box 498
1600 W. Main St.
Willimantic, CT 06226
CAGE Code: 71124
Not sure what the policy here is regarding selling stuff, so if
you're interested, contact me directly.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Dual circuit for J3300 EFI |
That should read I like the diode thing. (I like relay things too)
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
Thanks Bob,
I like the relay thing because it separates the two sources of power and I
can choose either battery or alternator independently. Same principle as
your note 24 where the bridge rectifier is used to combine two sources for
the job and also used in Z19, also I understand that this idea is accepted
here by CASA as an independent dual circuit.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
>
>Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo
>lists I know best.
>I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil
>resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more
>sense?
>But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if
>the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about
>the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar.
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
>
> It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your
> changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm
> not sure the images in my head based on your words
> match the reality of your proposal.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> >
> >
> >First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the
crowbar
> >CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic
> >ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home
> >and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff.
> >
> >I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I
> >have wandered astray a bit as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the
> >battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery
> >contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the
> >alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for
> >running the starter current through two series relays ?
You're stirring the recipe for success again . . . Starter contactors
are downstream of battery contactors so that should a starter contactor
stick, you still have a way to shut the starter off. This has been done
on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for almost 100 years.
> >
> >2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from
> >alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor
which
> >connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus.
> >
> >3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from
the
> >master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the
> >current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the
> >master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is
limited
> >by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed
> >out to the engine bay.
> >
> >4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which
> >access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each
> >with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus
> >alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from
> >alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to
> >choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a
feel
> >good feature.
I'm having trouble understanding what you think you're gaining with
the diodes thing . . .
But it's your airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable
All,
In January Bob wrote: "Coax cable length should be minimized for
the lengths commonly used in light aircraft, both type of cable and
variability in length will have no observable effect on performance.", but
the Garmin GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna
Cable Types by length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical. For
the 12.5 foot length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or
M17/112. Let me just say the RG304 seems to be scarce. They do say that
any 50 ohm, double shielded cable may be used, provided it introduces less
that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1 ghz including the connector. It is worth
asking what that means and how to measure it? What is being used
successfully in the real world? RG400? Jim Wier seems to still prefer RG58!
Hmmm . . . maybe he's trying to use up a 20,000ft
spool. I dumped all my RG-58 at a hamfest about
20 years ago.
Get some LMR-400 cable and the connectors appropriate
to your antenna and radio. You can probably find a
cable house that will put the connectors on a custom
length of LMR-400 which is still relatively small
and easy to handle. Alternatively, you can go to
something like RG-214 which according to the calculator
at:
http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl
Will meet Garmin's suggestions for 1.0 db of 1GHz
loss for the 12.5 foot distance you've cited.
The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded cable
either 22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable, others
must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor shielded cable on
B&C. Anyone have a source or recommendation?
Not in aircraft wire. And in PVC, you'd probably
have to buy a 100' spool to meet most catalog minimum
buys. I'm skeptical of the need to shield these wires.
but you could use two runs of shielded trio from
B&C in aircraft wire.
If I had schematics for the hardware at both ends,
we might be able to recommend a shielded quad with
shield being used as one of the 5 conductors (ground).
Steinair has shielded quads.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
hi all,
i have just gotten my icom 200 wired and it works! no credit to me , i
had help. the radio reqiures a separate power feed for its lighting. the
plane will be used daytime vfr only. i could wire the lighting on always
, wire it to go on with the nav lights, and numerous other ways. not a
very big deal but i wanted to hear if there is a logical reason to do it
one way versus another. thanks
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Hi Bob
FWIW I have a bright/off/dim switch on mine because I like it dimmed at
night. On bubble canopy aircraft it doesn't seem to make much difference
whether it is lighted during daytime but in my high wing machine with
sunglasses on, the light does seem to make it slightly easier to read
during the day. Actually when I realized that all the little lights
were incandescant instead of LED's, I put a 10 ohm resistor in series
with the light for the bright setting to insure long life but I have no
real idea of the bulb life without the resistor. My dim position puts a
22 ohm resistor in series with the lights. It would have been fine wired
to the instrument light dimmer as well but I wanted it on when the other
things were turned off.
Another peculiarity I had was that the mic gain on the top of the radio
was set too high from the factory for any mic that I tried which
resulted in poor transmissions initially.
Ken
bob noffs wrote:
> hi all,
> i have just gotten my icom 200 wired and it works! no credit to me ,
> i had help. the radio reqiures a separate power feed for its lighting.
> the plane will be used daytime vfr only. i could wire the lighting on
> always , wire it to go on with the nav lights, and numerous other
> ways. not a very big deal but i wanted to hear if there is a logical
> reason to do it one way versus another. thanks
> bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
| From: | "Bill McMullen" <CircleM(at)telusplanet.net> |
The Artex ME406 manual that I have is very clear that shielded 5 wire cable is
only recommended. They further state that shielded 4 conductor cable can be used
where the shield is used as the ground wire. This latter method can also
be used for upgrade compatibility. I wired my remote for an Artex ELT-200 using
4 conductor shielded wire in such a way that it can later be used for an ME-406
replacement simply by changing the ELT plug.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115060#115060
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to (sc...) ruin your VHF |
Hi all,
Recently a buddy building a microlight asked for some help wiring his
electrical circuit. He had already installed everything on the panel.
The wiring went well until a few days ago when powering up the brand new
Microair 760 VHF and PM-501 intercom. While the VHF back light was
glowing, the VHF display remained blank and nothing worked.
After checking every wire in the circuit, much head scratching, and
enduring some veiled accusation of inverting polarities, etc., I called
the seller and brought him the Microair. He diagnosed a blown internal
fuse, due to some overvoltage or polarity inversion. But he was gracious
enough not to openly saying I was the culprit...The VHF was quickly
tested on the bench, with a dummy antenna load.
Back to the hangar I double-checked the supplied harness and my wiring,
opening every thermosleeve to make sure nothing was wrong, then my buddy
reinstalled the radio. Same behavior : the VHF display stays blank,
while the intercom works as expected.
This time I removed the VHF from the panel myself, and guess what ? My
buddy had changed the supplied black screws for SS socket screws more to
his taste. And those screws seemed very long. Indeed looking into the
screw holes, the PC board seemed very close...
I reminded my buddy of the red notice in the manual about the screw length.
Back to the dealer again, and indeed, once the radio was opened, we
could clearly see where the screws had damage the PC board. The internal
fused was changed once again, and the radio tested on the bench, but in
the aircraft (without the screws...), the display was OK, but all I
could hear was a garbled local music broadcast and no aviation transmission.
The little VHF will have to be sent to an approved avionics repair shop...
Morality : read the manual, and do NOT change the screws....
Best regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
I couldn't resist to ask you 2 naughty questions:
If you airplane will be used daytime vfr only, why does it have nav
lights for?
Second question, even if you don't want to get rid of those (perhaps
useless) nav lights, are you wanting to turn them on whenever you feel
you need to turn on your radio's lighting?
Now more seriously, wire your radio lighting to its own power (lighting
always on if the radio is on), or to the instruments lighting, if your
plane has it.
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: aeroelectric list
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio light
hi all,
i have just gotten my icom 200 wired and it works! no credit to me ,
i had help. the radio reqiures a separate power feed for its lighting.
the plane will be used daytime vfr only. i could wire the lighting on
always , wire it to go on with the nav lights, and numerous other ways.
not a very big deal but i wanted to hear if there is a logical reason to
do it one way versus another. thanks
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Abrahamson <dave(at)abrahamson.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics stolen |
That's a terrible shame Danny. It makes me and all of us, I am sure,
shudder to think of someone ripping our avionics out of the
airplane. I will note your data and keep it for further reference.
Best,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luigit(at)freemail.it |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel De Winter <daniel_de_winter(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics stolen |
Thanks David, I hope all aviation enthousiastics will do so...
Daniel
----- Original Message ----
From: David Abrahamson <dave(at)abrahamson.net>
Sent: Sunday, 27 May, 2007 7:11:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electronics stolen
That's a terrible shame Danny. It makes me and all of us, I am sure,
shudder to think of someone ripping our avionics out of the
airplane. I will note your data and keep it for further reference.
Best,
David
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
Hi Luigi,
I believe what you are saying is correct and if you look at the bottom
diagram of the drawing
I did for my ICom 200 radio and intercom set, the three wires you speak
of for the mic and headset
are shown.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring-(SH-2).gif
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> Hi all.
>
> Installing my Icom 200 I have a question.
>
> I have a three wire shielded cable available and I wish to use it for
> the microphone and the phones jacks at the same time ,two wire for the
> mike and one for the earphone, using the shield for both. Is my
> project applicable ? Is there any problem arising with this scheme ?
>
> Thank you for the help.
>
> Luigi
>
> Rome, Italy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
Bob,
Working with the calculator and talking to an electrical engineer
here I pretty much got an understanding of attenuation for practical
purposes. I got a lead on a "sample" of RG304 that the engineer might be
able to locate. Four conductor double shielded cable will work for the
Artex ELT, so I'll go that route. The shield the then used as the ground
connector per the Artex installation instructions. As others go the 406
route and the February 2009 date gets closer, I suspect that demand will
grow. Again, thanks for the reply on a holiday weekend. Please enjoy your
Memorial Day.
Jeff Davidson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable |
>
That should work. I guess I don't know about the 'enjoy' part.
All our living room, dining room and kitchen furnishings are
stuffed into other rooms and we're painting walls and putting
down hardwood flooring and new baseboards. Woke up this morning
with the same aches I had when I went to bed last night! But
the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train. Parts
of the project are finishing and it sure looks nice. Yeah, I'll
enjoy the holiday . . . but a couple of days from now!
Bob . . .
>Bob,
> Working with the calculator and talking to an electrical engineer
>here I pretty much got an understanding of attenuation for practical
>purposes. I got a lead on a "sample" of RG304 that the engineer might be
>able to locate. Four conductor double shielded cable will work for the
>Artex ELT, so I'll go that route. The shield the then used as the ground
>connector per the Artex installation instructions. As others go the 406
>route and the February 2009 date gets closer, I suspect that demand will
>grow. Again, thanks for the reply on a holiday weekend. Please enjoy your
>Memorial Day.
> Jeff Davidson
>
>
>--
>10:47 AM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Crook <will(at)willcrook.com> |
| Subject: | Bob, please contact me |
Bob Nuckolls:
Please email me at wacrook(at)yahoo.com or call me at 828-400-0202 regarding my pitot
tube and pitot tube connector. I am anxious to get it back and installed.
If you've been too busy to work on it, that's fine - I just need it back. Multiple
emails to you directly have been unanswered. I do recall you stating that
you often get way behind on emails. All fine, but please do respond to this
(my 2nd public attempt on the Aeroelectric List). Hope you & Dr. Dee are doing
great. Thank you so very much for your help,
Will Crook
Glastar
Waynesville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
hi carlos,
my airplane was built to be vfr day or night but i probably wont renew
my private lic. when it flies. a night landing in the northern wisconsin
woods would probably be the last thing i ever did. you are right about
not needing the nav lights but they were cheap enough from aeroflash
with the wingtip strobes and it cant hurt to run them. anyway, i think
the way to go on the radio lights is to wire them to the same power
suply as the radio. thanks to all who replied.
bob noffs
woodruff, wi.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Trigo
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: radio light
I couldn't resist to ask you 2 naughty questions:
If you airplane will be used daytime vfr only, why does it have nav
lights for?
Second question, even if you don't want to get rid of those (perhaps
useless) nav lights, are you wanting to turn them on whenever you feel
you need to turn on your radio's lighting?
Now more seriously, wire your radio lighting to its own power
(lighting always on if the radio is on), or to the instruments lighting,
if your plane has it.
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: bob noffs
To: aeroelectric list
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio light
hi all,
i have just gotten my icom 200 wired and it works! no credit to me
, i had help. the radio reqiures a separate power feed for its lighting.
the plane will be used daytime vfr only. i could wire the lighting on
always , wire it to go on with the nav lights, and numerous other ways.
not a very big deal but i wanted to hear if there is a logical reason to
do it one way versus another. thanks
bob noffs
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of
alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports,
prior to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I
could just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux
battery could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using
the radio for clearances. See crude diagram below.
Thanks,
Sam Marlow
Aux Bat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Reeves <n516dr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Some AeroElectric Connection Questions |
Bob,
Thanks for all of the great training you provide both on the list and in your
AeroElectric Connection!
I am planning on using Z-11 to wire my RV-7A but using B&C's LR3C regulator in
place of the Ford regulator, the AEC9005-101 low voltage monitor module, and
the crowbar o.v. protection module since all 3 functions are built into the LR3C.
I'm using Z-12 as a reference for the LR3C portion of the wiring and my question
is why does the LR3C just require a 5A breaker between the bus and the master
switch, whereas in the Z-11 setup a fusible link is required between the bus
and the master switch and the breaker is then shown between the switch and
regulator?
Also, on Z-11, the picture that shows the terminal locations for the S700-2-XX
series of switches is numbered opposite to what is shown on page 11-16 of the
AeroElectric Connection and both mention keyway up. Which is correct?
Thanks again for all of your help!
Dan Reeves
RV-7A
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
| Subject: | Interesting story... comments? |
Aeroelectric listers,
I gleaned this story off another email list. Any comments?
----------
On straight-in for my home airport, about two miles out, smoke started
swirling around in the cockpit. It wasn't real bad but it was definitely
noticeable by both sight and smell. In hindsight it was clearly an
electrical fire (smell and where the smoke was coming from around the panel)
but I quickly declared an emergency saying I had a fire in the engine
compartment. Don't know why I said that other than that it was what I was
the most afraid of. There was no place to land short of the runway so I
went into high-speed prayer mode, held gear and flaps until the last moment
and landed more or less normally. Shut down on the runway and coasted to a
turnoff. Couldn't do the fuel shutoff quickly so just turned it to in
between left and right. Switches off, canopy up and told my wife to leave
by the nearest exit. By the time she was gone, I was noticing that there
was no new smoke so I decided to hunt around for the fire extinguisher
(where is was supposed to be but under my flight bag.) With still no
indication of a continuing fire, I started turning off switches and, having
by this time convinced myself that the problem was electrical, took the
glare shield off to look around. Saw nothing at first but one of the fire
guys who showed up right after that found a small blackened spot in the
firewall near the top right. Sure enough, the alternator wire pass through
had burned through. The stud and nuts were fused and a small part of the
surrounding e-glass seemed to have burned.
I had two opportunities to catch this early. The first was that amps seemed
to be running on the high side. We put this down to having to charge up the
battery because we had had systems on with the engine off but, in hindsight,
it was a clue. Then about a week ago, I had the same smell on approach to
Boeing. There was no smoke, it went away after a couple minutes and I saw
nothing when I removed the glareshield and inspected. Also no repeat on the
return trip.
Turns out that high amperage connections (like all other connections) can
loosen over time. If they do so, resistance goes up, amperage goes up to
compensate (at least in the case of the alternator wire) arcing takes place
and eventually the whole system burns up. There is no short and therefore
no cb's pop but, as I discovered, the process can start a fire.
The firewall connections are hard to see (at least on the cabin side) but I
am definitely adding that to my annual checklist. If the rest of you are
not sure your connections are as tight as they were when you put them
together, suggest you check. I'm also finding a new place for my fire
extinguisher.
----------
Mark Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra battery |
That will work.
Bob . . .
>I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of
>alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior
>to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could
>just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery
>could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio
>for clearances. See crude diagram below.
>Thanks,
>Sam Marlow
>
>Aux Battery 1.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra battery |
Opps . . . hit the send button too soon.
That will work . . . but why an "extra battery"?
Obviously, you're depending on the power on/off switch in the 430 to absolutely
drop battery drain to zero . . . but assuming it does, why not just tie this
radio to the battery bus . . . or e-bus?
Alternator failure is one of the conditions that find tolerable by design
in the z-figures. I.e, failure tolerance is a design goal and should not
require the extra ordinary weight, wiring, diode or maintenance costs of
the approach you're proposing.
Bob. . .
>I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of
>alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior
>to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could
>just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery
>could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio
>for clearances. See crude diagram below.
>Thanks,
>Sam Marlow
>
>Aux Battery 1.jpg
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
Carlos,
I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact
size.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
Thanks Bill
That is enough for me.
Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on
my
shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King.
By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ?
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I
believe
> the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of
6
> oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the
> Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday.
>
> An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was
having
> trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of
course,
> he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King
> fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what
I
> did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide
the
> exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list
> here beats me to it.
>
> Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling Fan |
Thanks Bill
Very nice little critter
Did you already test power it, to hear its noise?
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
> Carlos,
>
> I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact
> size.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra battery |
Well, I wanted some sort of backup battery also. An e-buss would serve me better,
but my panel is complete,I'm not wanting to redesign the electrical system.
So I guess I'll live with what I have. But next airplane........ that's a different
story. Thanks, for your help, I've learned a lot from your post.
Sam Marlow
---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
> Opps . . . hit the send button too soon.
>
> That will work . . . but why an "extra battery"?
>
> Obviously, you're depending on the power on/off switch in the 430 to absolutely
> drop battery drain to zero . . . but assuming it does, why not just tie this
> radio to the battery bus . . . or e-bus?
>
> Alternator failure is one of the conditions that find tolerable by design
> in the z-figures. I.e, failure tolerance is a design goal and should not
> require the extra ordinary weight, wiring, diode or maintenance costs of
> the approach you're proposing.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
>
>
>
> >I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of
> >alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior
> >to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could
> >just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery
> >could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio
> >for clearances. See crude diagram below.
> >Thanks,
> >Sam Marlow
> >
> >Aux Battery 1.jpg
> >
> >
> >incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
> ( give some practical results, but )
> ( that's not why we do it." )
> ( )
> ( Richard P. Feynman )
> ----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling Fan |
Yes, no better or worse than others.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
Thanks Bill
Very nice little critter
Did you already test power it, to hear its noise?
Carlos
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan
> Carlos,
>
> I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact
> size.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Whelen strobe connecter tools |
Any suggestions on where to find Whelen strobe connecter tools? I have to remove
the already installed AMP PCPS3 three pin strobe connecters to wire the wings.
I think they are called Mate 'n Lock connecters. But there are a couple of
kinds of Mate 'N Locks and the tools are different. Worse yet, Mouser's catalog
didn't show these specific connecters(at least not by these numbers). The Radio
Shack D-sub pin installation and extraction tools didn't work. I tried.
Eric Schlanser
---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
| From: | "sreynard" <sreynard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
> Sort of. You would have to have it approved by the FCC.
>
> Sec. 87.39 Equipment acceptable for licensing.
>
>
> Transmitters listed in this part must be certificated for a
>
> particular use by the Commission based upon technical requirements
>
> contained in subpart D of this part.
Sorry I'm late to the party! :)
Reading the latest EAA article I had to check a couple times it didn't say AOPA
on the cover! It seemed like a lot of cr*p to me. I can build an EFIS from
scratch but I can't change a power FET on a stupid AM radio? Have to pull parts
from the manufacturers stock? What is that happy horse. . . . They did a
life-time buy on every single component and comprehensively tested each one, right?!?
I don't think so! I've seen commercial and industrial grade components,
but I've never seen "aircraft resistors" for sale anywhere. And if I do use
"Officially Authorized" transistors they are going to guarantee them not to
fail right? Then why do avionics ever need to be serviced?!? Silliness!
I have been interested in the idea of building my own avionics for some time.
I think it was Kitplanes that had some articles on the subject. Having worked
on receiver and source test equipment projects, the idea of designing and building
a radio would seem like a reasonable place to start. Shoot, with current
ADC's and DAC's about the only RF needed would be a low pass filter. Software
Defined Radio here we come! It's certainly a lot easier than building an airplane!
Looking over the FCC regs here's something a little interesting:
> TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
>
>
>
> CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
>
>
>
> PART 15_RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES--Table of Contents
>
>
>
> Subpart A_General
>
>
>
> Sec. 15.23 Home-built devices.
>
>
>
> (a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not
>
> marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of
>
> five or less for personal use.
>
> (b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built
>
> equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for
>
> determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder
>
> is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified
>
> technical standards to the greatest extent practicable. The provisions
>
> of Sec. 15.5 apply to this equipment.
I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty clear to me. My thinking is that if you
keep on frequency, within the bandwidth limits, and make a reasonable attempt
at any other spec's, you should be good to go as long as you don't try to sell
them. This agrees with the ARRL news letters I've seen over the years. People
get in trouble for trying to sell unlicensed transmitters or causing interference
to others, not building their own.
Steven Reynard
Workshop prep/RV-7 Planning
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115685#115685
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
| From: | "sreynard" <sreynard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
> Articles like that just increase the challenge....
> http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/avionics/avionics.html
>
> deserves congratulations for putting so much together.
>
Now that is impressive! Food for thought. . . . :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115688#115688
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gaye and Vaughn" <vaughnray(at)bvunet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe connecter tools |
I have found the Whelen folks to be very helpfull. Have you tried giving
them a call.
Vaughn Teegarden
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Schlanser
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whelen strobe connecter tools
Any suggestions on where to find Whelen strobe connecter tools? I have
to remove the already installed AMP PCPS3 three pin strobe connecters to
wire the wings. I think they are called Mate 'n Lock connecters. But
there are a couple of kinds of Mate 'N Locks and the tools are
different. Worse yet, Mouser's catalog didn't show these specific
connecters(at least not by these numbers). The Radio Shack D-sub pin
installation and extraction tools didn't work. I tried.
Eric Schlanser
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Barber" <CBarber(at)TexasAttorney.net> |
| Subject: | First Start of my rotary |
Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary engine
in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the great
info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of piece of
mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts or those
of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on
www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob.
All the best,
Chris
www.LoneStarVelocity.com
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Abrahamson <dave(at)abrahamson.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe connecter tools |
I got the right tool from SteinAir, the SAT-018, which you'll find on
the "tools" page of the online store. That, plus the SAT-033 pin
extractor, and Bob's article at
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html, and you're all set!
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Whelen strobe connecter tools |
5/31/2007
Hello Eric, Consider this approach. Go to http://www.terminaltown.com/ and
order some new Molex connectors and pins (along with a few extras just in
case). Then cut off the factory installed connectors, snake your wires
through the wings, and install new pins and connectors using the stripping
and crimping tools that you already have.
You are right that there are different kinds of Mate 'n Lock connectors and
pins so that you need to be very precise in determining the connectors and
pins needed, but they are available.
Note that you can also buy the tool you asked about from them for about
$20.00. But I think that extra connectors and pins is a much more reasonable
and inexpensive solution.
When starting from scratch I think that the best way to handle the stobe
cable going from power supply in fuselage to light units in wings is to
start with which ever end already has the factory installed connector (I
don't remember which end that was right now -- I did that wiring a few years
ago). Then snake the cut end of the cable through the routing desired. Leave
some slack at the light end and a very generous service loop at the power
supply end -- no break or connector at the wing to fuselage junction. Then
if you ever have to remove a wing just disconnect the connector at the power
supply, cut the connector off, strip out the section of cable in the
fuselage going to the power supply and remove the wing. When it comes time
to reinstall wing, resnake the section of cable going to the power supply,
install pins and connectors from the spares that you wisely have on hand and
reconnect to the power supply.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: Be very accurate to get the right wires connected to the right pins. A
friend of mine got a little careless, crossed some wires, fried something,
and had to get Whelen factory help to repair the damage.
_____________
From: Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whelen strobe connecter tools
Any suggestions on where to find Whelen strobe connecter tools? I have to
remove
the already installed AMP PCPS3 three pin strobe connecters to wire the
wings.
I think they are called Mate 'n Lock connecters. But there are a couple of
kinds of Mate 'N Locks and the tools are different. Worse yet, Mouser's
catalog
didn't show these specific connecters(at least not by these numbers). The
Radio
Shack D-sub pin installation and extraction tools didn't work. I tried.
Eric Schlanser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dwieck(at)cafes.net" <dwieck(at)cafes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
> > Articles like that just increase the challenge....
> > http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/avionics/avionics.html
> >
> > deserves congratulations for putting so much together.
> >
>Now that is impressive! Food for thought. . . . :D
Yes he has some neat stuff but he is not using it in the US ( under FCC rules)
Dennis
N4ZKR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dwieck(at)cafes.net" <dwieck(at)cafes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional, or
incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer or
clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also limits
as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
Dennis
N4ZKR
snip
>Looking over the FCC regs here's something a little interesting:
> > TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
> >
> >
> >
> > CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
> >
> >
> >
> > PART 15_RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES--Table of Contents
> >
> >
> >
> > Subpart A_General
> >
> >
> >
> > Sec. 15.23 Home-built devices.
> >
> >
> >
> > (a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not
> >
> > marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of
> >
> > five or less for personal use.
> >
> > (b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built
> >
> > equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for
> >
> > determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder
> >
> > is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified
> >
> > technical standards to the greatest extent practicable. The provisions
> >
> > of Sec. 15.5 apply to this equipment.
>I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty clear to me. My thinking is that if you
>keep on frequency, within the bandwidth limits, and make a reasonable attempt
at
>any other spec's, you should be good to go as long as you don't try to sell
them. >This agrees with the ARRL news letters I've seen over the years. People
get in >trouble for trying to sell unlicensed transmitters or causing
interference to >others, not building their own.
>Steven Reynard
>Workshop prep/RV-7 Planning
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 396 display crazing |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
glance look like scratches.
He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
problem?
1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
out?
4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some AeroElectric Connection Questions |
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for all of the great training you provide both on the list and in
>your AeroElectric Connection!
>
>I am planning on using Z-11 to wire my RV-7A but using B&C's LR3C
>regulator in place of the Ford regulator, the AEC9005-101 low voltage
>monitor module, and the crowbar o.v. protection module since all 3
>functions are built into the LR3C.
>
>I'm using Z-12 as a reference for the LR3C portion of the wiring and my
>question is why does the LR3C just require a 5A breaker between the bus
>and the master switch, whereas in the Z-11 setup a fusible link is
>required between the bus and the master switch and the breaker is then
>shown between the switch and regulator?
Breakers and fuses protect wires. When you're wired with breakers
at the bus bars, then EVERY WIRE extending from the bus bar
is protected by the breaker. When you use fuse blocks and then
EXTEND the bus by means of a wire from the fuse block to a breaker,
then that piece of wire needs protection . . . i.e. fusible link.
The fusible link is weak enough to protect the wire but robust enough
to open the breaker before befor the link opens.
>
>Also, on Z-11, the picture that shows the terminal locations for the
>S700-2-XX series of switches is numbered opposite to what is shown on page
>11-16 of the AeroElectric Connection and both mention keyway up. Which is
>correct?
See note 15 in Appendix Z and
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
>
>Thanks again for all of your help!
You're welcome sir!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com Wiring |
I wired my Lancair Legacy using Z13/8.
My Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com radio has two power supplies, one for the
navigation part of the radio and one for the communication part. I
wired the communication part to the E-bus and the navigation part to the
main bus. I figured that if I lost my main alternator, I could likely
do without the VOR function of the radio because I'd be using GPS
anyway.
The nav and com functions work fine when powered by the main bus, but
it's completely dead when powered only by the E-bus. I just talked to
Garmin tech support, who confirmed that both the navigation and
communication power supplies must be powered for either one to work.
Drats! I don't have any extra E-bus fuses, so I'll probably wire an
inline ATO fuse from the E-bus to power the navigation part of the
radio.
By the way, I love this radio's ability to monitor the standby frequency
while still hearing the primary frequency. This is my only radio (I
carry a hand held for emergency) and I can listen to the AWOS/ATIS on
the standby channel while staying on ATC's frequency. The audio on the
standby is muted during transmissions on the primary frequency, so I
don't have to worry about missing ATC's radio calls. If there is a lot
of traffic on the primary frequency, it can take a while to get all of
the AWOS/ATIS info, but I tune it up early, so that's not been a
problem. For me, this feature eliminated the need to buy a second radio
and install a second antenna on the outside of the airplane.
I thought others might want the info about the need to power both nav
and com power supplies for either to work.
Best,
Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy, just completed my first flight outside the local area.
Northern Calif. to Portland in a little over two hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
dwieck(at)cafes.net wrote:
>
>
> You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional, or
> incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
> that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer or
> clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
> frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also limits
> as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
> but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
>
>
If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM
would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
trouble.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
transmitter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 396 display crazing |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
That's easy...You give it back to your friend and ask that it comes back
in the same condition you loaned it to him in...:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 396 display crazing
I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was
in perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
glance look like scratches.
He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused
the problem?
1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish
it out?
4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
First, I don't have a Garmin GPS, so I can't speak for it's display
lens, but I have used pledge to clean clear plastic items for years, and
I can say that I have never seen it do that. In fact it is used to
remove fine scratches and cloudiness from plastic.
Pledge is also highly recommended to clean the scratches and such on
DVDs and CDs that don't read or play well, and I have also successfully
used it on DVDs I have borrowed from the library that don't play when I
get them.
Pledge is also recommended to remove the scratches and dirt from our
airplane canopies and plastic windows...
So, I doubt very much that pledge caused the problem.
Crazing, and the type of damage you are describing, usually comes from
the use of a plastic solvent (which Pledge is not) such as MEK or
acetone or such. Are you sure that someone didn't try to clean it with
something like that, and then try to correct it with pledge?
To correct it, you can try some very fine sandpaper, and then pledge
when the scratches have sanded out fine enough for it to work. Of
course, if the crazing is too deep, then replacement of the lens may be
the only option.
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote:
>
> I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
> perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
> display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
> coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
> glance look like scratches.
>
> He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
> problem?
>
> 1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>
> 2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>
> 3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
> out?
>
> 4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com Wiring |
You could always tie both power wires to a single 7amp fuse using a fast-tab
splitter which should protect either wire. The SL-30 internal fuses will
blow long before either the 2 or 5amp anyway. BTDT
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Johnson
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com Wiring
I wired my Lancair Legacy using Z13/8.
My Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com radio has two power supplies, one for the navigation
part of the radio and one for the communication part. I wired the
communication part to the E-bus and the navigation part to the main bus. I
figured that if I lost my main alternator, I could likely do without the VOR
function of the radio because I'd be using GPS anyway.
The nav and com functions work fine when powered by the main bus, but it's
completely dead when powered only by the E-bus. I just talked to Garmin
tech support, who confirmed that both the navigation and communication power
supplies must be powered for either one to work. Drats! I don't have any
extra E-bus fuses, so I'll probably wire an inline ATO fuse from the E-bus
to power the navigation part of the radio.
By the way, I love this radio's ability to monitor the standby frequency
while still hearing the primary frequency. This is my only radio (I carry a
hand held for emergency) and I can listen to the AWOS/ATIS on the standby
channel while staying on ATC's frequency. The audio on the standby is muted
during transmissions on the primary frequency, so I don't have to worry
about missing ATC's radio calls. If there is a lot of traffic on the
primary frequency, it can take a while to get all of the AWOS/ATIS info, but
I tune it up early, so that's not been a problem. For me, this feature
eliminated the need to buy a second radio and install a second antenna on
the outside of the airplane.
I thought others might want the info about the need to power both nav and
com power supplies for either to work.
Best,
Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy, just completed my first flight outside the local area.
Northern Calif. to Portland in a little over two hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
DME has a transmitter. It transmits a signal to the ground station, and determines
distance by measuring the delay before the ground station responds.
TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area and
builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
Kevin Horton
Ernest Christley wrote:
>
> dwieck(at)cafes.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional,
or
> > incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
> > that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer
or
> > clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
> > frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also
limits
> > as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
> > but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
> >
> >
> If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM
> would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
> as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
> GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
> all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
> amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
> trouble.
>
> All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
> transmitter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Start of my rotary |
>Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary engine in
>my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the great info
>in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of piece of
>mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts or those
>of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on
><http://www.canardaviation.com>www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary
>email list. Thanks Bob.
>
>All the best,
Great news! There's always a note of well earned satisfaction
at every project's milestones. We're putting the finishing
touches on a remodeling of three rooms and a hall in our house.
Long hours of prep, a few hours of broad-roller-progress and
many square-feet-per-hour of flooring going down . . . then
more long hours of detailed finish work for the bits and pieces
at the edges. But when the paint was done, and all the flat stuff
down on the floor, the light at the end of the tunnel turned out
not to be an oncoming train. All I have left is a dozen or so
pieces of base-board to put down.
Getting the engine to run and show nice numbers on the gages
has to be a rush. I'm pleased that this important milestone
is now behind you. Keep us apprised of your progress!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> DME has a transmitter. It transmits a signal to the ground station, and determines
distance by measuring the delay before the ground station responds.
>
I did not know that. Thank you.
> TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area and
builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
>
There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
as well as a warning system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
>
>I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
>perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
>display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
>coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
>glance look like scratches.
>
>He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
>problem?
>
>1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>
>2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>
>3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
>out?
>
>4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>
>Thx.
>Ron Parigoris
"Plastics" come in a host of compounds optimized for some
desired quality. Obviously, the transparent cover over a screen
needs to be transparent and reasonably robust . . . but these
qualities may not be compatible with designing in a resistance
to the effects of some solvents. I'm a bit mystified about the
Pledge . . . we used it a lot on plexiglas windshields and
a variety of leading edge paints on lots of airplanes. Further,
Pledge is compatible with a wide variety of finishes on wood.
Pledge is demonstrably non-antagonistic in a host of applications.
You might try this experiment. Carefully mask off all but the
exposed surface of the damaged plastic. Then spray on a thin
coat of polyurethane from a spray can. The coat will need to
be thick enough for the material to self-level as a liquid.
I've repaired a number of screens that were either scratched
or crazed by various stresses using this technique. If this
is not successful, you'll need to have it repaired which may
mean returning it to a Garmin repair shop.
I used to send intractable cases to a local instrument shop
that stocked various thicknesses and formulations of face
cover glass. He could probably put a real glass face on
your GPS . . . but that guy retired about 15 years ago.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
I just thought of something else...
Most display plastic lenses are shipped when new with a protective layer
of thin, soft plastic over the lens. This is meant to be peeled off
before use. Not unlike the plastic sheet that comes on one side of
acrylic or Lexan.
I have seen MANY displays on other equipment that have been used for
years with this sheet still in place. And when the owner complains
about poor visibility of the display, I have often only had to remove
the protective layer that they didn't know was there!
Is it possible that you are just seeing this protective sheet that was
never removed, and all will be well if it is peeled off?
Harley Dixon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It
>> was in
>> perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
>> display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
>> coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
>> glance look like scratches.
>>
>> He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused
>> the
>> problem?
>>
>> 1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>>
>> 2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>>
>> 3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or
>> polish it
>> out?
>>
>> 4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>>
>> Thx.
>> Ron Parigoris
>
> "Plastics" come in a host of compounds optimized for some
> desired quality. Obviously, the transparent cover over a screen
> needs to be transparent and reasonably robust . . . but these
> qualities may not be compatible with designing in a resistance
> to the effects of some solvents. I'm a bit mystified about the
> Pledge . . . we used it a lot on plexiglas windshields and
> a variety of leading edge paints on lots of airplanes. Further,
> Pledge is compatible with a wide variety of finishes on wood.
> Pledge is demonstrably non-antagonistic in a host of applications.
>
> You might try this experiment. Carefully mask off all but the
> exposed surface of the damaged plastic. Then spray on a thin
> coat of polyurethane from a spray can. The coat will need to
> be thick enough for the material to self-level as a liquid.
>
> I've repaired a number of screens that were either scratched
> or crazed by various stresses using this technique. If this
> is not successful, you'll need to have it repaired which may
> mean returning it to a Garmin repair shop.
>
> I used to send intractable cases to a local instrument shop
> that stocked various thicknesses and formulations of face
> cover glass. He could probably put a real glass face on
> your GPS . . . but that guy retired about 15 years ago.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
> ( give some practical results, but )
> ( that's not why we do it." )
> ( )
> ( Richard P. Feynman )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dwieck(at)cafes.net" <dwieck(at)cafes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM would be
totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye as long as it's
in
an experimental craft.
Prbably true as it is only a receiver.
The DME, GPS receiver, GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF
recievers would all be totally acceptable to the FCC.
Again probably true
The transmitting portions (VHF amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter)
would be asking for trouble.
Yes anything that transmits would have to be approved.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a transmitter?
Yes
Dennis
N4ZKR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I wonder if the Garmin's have an antiglare coating which the Pledge might
have 'fouled.'
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
>
>>
>>I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was
>> in
>>perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
>>display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
>>coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
>>glance look like scratches.
>>
>>He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
>>problem?
>>
>>1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>>
>>2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>>
>>3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish
>> it
>>out?
>>
>>4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>>
>>Thx.
>>Ron Parigoris
>
> "Plastics" come in a host of compounds optimized for some
> desired quality. Obviously, the transparent cover over a screen
> needs to be transparent and reasonably robust . . . but these
> qualities may not be compatible with designing in a resistance
> to the effects of some solvents. I'm a bit mystified about the
> Pledge . . . we used it a lot on plexiglas windshields and
> a variety of leading edge paints on lots of airplanes. Further,
> Pledge is compatible with a wide variety of finishes on wood.
> Pledge is demonstrably non-antagonistic in a host of applications.
>
> You might try this experiment. Carefully mask off all but the
> exposed surface of the damaged plastic. Then spray on a thin
> coat of polyurethane from a spray can. The coat will need to
> be thick enough for the material to self-level as a liquid.
>
> I've repaired a number of screens that were either scratched
> or crazed by various stresses using this technique. If this
> is not successful, you'll need to have it repaired which may
> mean returning it to a Garmin repair shop.
>
> I used to send intractable cases to a local instrument shop
> that stocked various thicknesses and formulations of face
> cover glass. He could probably put a real glass face on
> your GPS . . . but that guy retired about 15 years ago.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
> ( give some practical results, but )
> ( that's not why we do it." )
> ( )
> ( Richard P. Feynman )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
They do (at least the 496 does) and they caution against fingerprints,
etc. on the screen.
Dick Tasker
Matt Prather wrote:
>
>I wonder if the Garmin's have an antiglare coating which the Pledge might
>have 'fouled.'
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Matt-
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was
>>>in
>>>perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
>>>display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
>>>coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
>>>glance look like scratches.
>>>
>>>He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
>>>problem?
>>>
>>>1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>>>
>>>2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>>>
>>>3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish
>>>it
>>>out?
>>>
>>>4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>>>
>>>Thx.
>>>Ron Parigoris
>>>
>>>
>> "Plastics" come in a host of compounds optimized for some
>> desired quality. Obviously, the transparent cover over a screen
>> needs to be transparent and reasonably robust . . . but these
>> qualities may not be compatible with designing in a resistance
>> to the effects of some solvents. I'm a bit mystified about the
>> Pledge . . . we used it a lot on plexiglas windshields and
>> a variety of leading edge paints on lots of airplanes. Further,
>> Pledge is compatible with a wide variety of finishes on wood.
>> Pledge is demonstrably non-antagonistic in a host of applications.
>>
>> You might try this experiment. Carefully mask off all but the
>> exposed surface of the damaged plastic. Then spray on a thin
>> coat of polyurethane from a spray can. The coat will need to
>> be thick enough for the material to self-level as a liquid.
>>
>> I've repaired a number of screens that were either scratched
>> or crazed by various stresses using this technique. If this
>> is not successful, you'll need to have it repaired which may
>> mean returning it to a Garmin repair shop.
>>
>> I used to send intractable cases to a local instrument shop
>> that stocked various thicknesses and formulations of face
>> cover glass. He could probably put a real glass face on
>> your GPS . . . but that guy retired about 15 years ago.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
>> ( give some practical results, but )
>> ( that's not why we do it." )
>> ( )
>> ( Richard P. Feynman )
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
Ernest Christley wrote:
>
> Kevin Horton wrote:
> >
> > TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area
and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
> >
> There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
> depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
> transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
> the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
> as well as a warning system.
A passive system would be unable to comply with the RTCA TCAS requirements. If
it doesn't transmit, it may be a collision warning system, but it is not TCAS.
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
Matt Prather wrote:
>
> I wonder if the Garmin's have an antiglare coating which the Pledge might
> have 'fouled.'
>
>
>
Isn't propane used as a propellant in most aerosols?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
>
>I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
>perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
>display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
>coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
>glance look like scratches.
>
>He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
>problem?
>
>1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>
>2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>
>3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
>out?
>
>4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>
>Thx.
>Ron Parigoris
"Plastics" come in a host of compounds optimized for some
desired quality. Obviously, the transparent cover over a screen
needs to be transparent and reasonably robust . . . but these
qualities may not be compatible with designing in a resistance
to the effects of some solvents.
You might try this experiment. Carefully mask off all but the
exposed surface of the damaged plastic. Then spray on a thin
coat of polyurethane from a spray can. The coat will need to
be thick enough for the material to self-level as a liquid.
I've repaired a number of screens that were either scratched
or crazed by various stresses using this technique. If this
is not successful, you'll need to have it repaired which may
mean returning it to a Garmin repair shop.
I used to send intractable cases to a local instrument shop
that stocked various thicknesses and formulations of face
cover glass. He could probably put a real glass face on
your GPS . . . but that guy retired about 15 years ago.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
| From: | "sreynard" <sreynard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
> would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
> as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
> GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
> all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
> amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
> trouble.
>
> All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
> transmitter?
Looks like you are correct. Part 87 does not have a certification exception:
> (c) The equipment listed below is exempted from certification. The
> operation of transmitters which have not been certificated must not
> result in harmful interference due to the failure of those transmitters
> to comply with technical standards of this subpart.
> (1) Flight test station transmitters for limited periods where
> justified.
> (2) U.S. Government transmitters furnished in the performance of a
> U.S. Government contract if the use of certificated equipment would
> increase the cost of the contract or if the transmitter will be
> incorporated in the finished product. However, such equipment must meet
> the technical standards contained in this subpart.
> (3) ELTs verified in accordance with Sec. 87.147(e).
> (4) Signal generators when used as radionavigation land test
> stations (MTF).
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115812#115812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
Butane replaced freon...at least it's the propellant of choice before I
retired (pharmaceuticals) and also for the other companies that our
equipment suppliers provided aerosol packaging equipment for.
Doesn't affect the plastic spray nozzles or the dip tubes that are
immersed in it.
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ernest Christley wrote:
>
>
> Matt Prather wrote:
>>
>>
>> I wonder if the Garmin's have an antiglare coating which the Pledge
>> might
>> have 'fouled.'
>>
>>
>>
>
> Isn't propane used as a propellant in most aerosols?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
There's an alternative system that is being used on many sailplanes in
Europe. It's actively transmitting it's GPS coordinates on one of the free
industrial frequency bands and listening for others. Check out Flarm
(http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html). Depending on the local regulations
this may 'fly' in your region too...
Rob
>> > TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the
>> > area and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the
>> > responses it gets.
>> >
>> There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
>> depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
>> transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
>> the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
>> as well as a warning system.
>
> A passive system would be unable to comply with the RTCA TCAS
> requirements. If it doesn't transmit, it may be a collision warning
> system, but it is not TCAS.
>
> Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Another myth bites the dust. |
For a number of years, we've wrestled with a combination of
vague instructions and/or ol' mechanic's tales about using
high melting point solder on the pins of a pitot tube connector.
Thanks to the generous loan of his new 14v pitot tube, Bill
Crook made it possible to check this out.
After 2 hours of operation at 13.5 volts on the bench, a
thermocouple on the solder joints of the connector rose
to 240 degrees F, about 200 degrees lower than the melting
point for the solder.
Ordinary 63/37 solder is entirely suitable for making
these joints.
Thanks Bill. Your pitot tube is in the mail.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Another myth bites the dust. |
For a number of years, we've wrestled with a combination of
vague instructions and/or ol' mechanic's tales about using
high melting point solder on the pins of a pitot tube connector.
Thanks to the generous loan of his new 14v pitot tube, Bill
Crook made it possible to check this out.
After 2 hours of operation at 13.5 volts on the bench, a
thermocouple on the solder joints of the connector rose
to 240 degrees F, about 200 degrees lower than the melting
point for the solder.
Ordinary 63/37 solder is entirely suitable for making
these joints.
Thanks Bill. Your pitot tube is in the mail.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 396 display crazing |
If the deed was done with Pledge it is not likely that you will be able to
remove the stuff completely, because one of the ingredients in Pledge is 3
to 5% SILICONE FLUID, DOW CORNING 200, per the MSDS. Silicones are
notoriously difficult to remove because they are virtually unaffected by all
solvents. The other main ingredient is ISOPARAFFINIC HYDROCARBONS (NAPHTHA
PETROLEUM), at 10 to 20% concentration, and this stuff is at least soluble
in non-polar solvents. The bad news is that what is likely to dissolve this
ingredient is also likely to damage the plastic if it is polycarbonate (aka
Lexan) or acrylic (aka Plexiglas, Lucite, Perspex). Soapy water is probably
the safest choice is you are not sure if the material is plastic or glass.
If the LCD panel is glass then just about any solvent is safe.
Regardless of the substrate material, anti-reflective coatings are inorganic
and thus impervious to most solvents, but are relatively delicate and will
be damaged by aggressive rubbing.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 396 display crazing
I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
glance look like scratches.
He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
problem?
1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
out?
4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another myth bites the dust. |
On 31 May 2007, at 11:54, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
> For a number of years, we've wrestled with a combination of
> vague instructions and/or ol' mechanic's tales about using
> high melting point solder on the pins of a pitot tube connector.
>
> Thanks to the generous loan of his new 14v pitot tube, Bill
> Crook made it possible to check this out.
>
> After 2 hours of operation at 13.5 volts on the bench, a
> thermocouple on the solder joints of the connector rose
> to 240 degrees F, about 200 degrees lower than the melting
> point for the solder.
>
> Ordinary 63/37 solder is entirely suitable for making
> these joints.
What make and model was the pitot tube?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
Thx. to all who replied.
I believe the crazing on my plastic glasses is in fact a anti reflective
coating that has been damaged.
My glasses have seen Ispropyl alcohol 100% splashed on by accident, and my
kids using windex on them to help me see better, and soapy water that was
a bit hot.
I am not positive if one of the mentioned did the coating in, but I
suspect yes.
The crazing I saw on the 396 looked the same as on my glasses. Pledge may
work OK on uncoated plastic (I don't think aeroplane glass has anti glare
coating on it??) but may need to rethink about using on treated plastic.
If someone has an old pair of glasses with plastic lenses that are not
crazed, mind trying some pledge, then isopropyl alcohol, then windex, then
very hot soapy water on them to see if any one causes crazing?
To answer question, the protective layer was not installed.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
To minimize the Dow Corning 200 silicone fluid I would suggest placing a
soft absorbent cloth such as 100 % cotton on the treated display area of the
396 for a day or so. Then polish the surface with a fresh piece of the
cloth.This will probably not remove all traces of the silicone fluid but the
fluid has a very low surface tension and will now be spread very thin. To
thin to cause any visual distortion. The silicone fluid is inert and would
have had no reaction to the display be it a plastic or glass.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation NC
Retired Dow Corning Corporation
--- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 396 display crazing
> <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> If the deed was done with Pledge it is not likely that you will be able to
> remove the stuff completely, because one of the ingredients in Pledge is 3
> to 5% SILICONE FLUID, DOW CORNING 200, per the MSDS. Silicones are
> notoriously difficult to remove because they are virtually unaffected by
> all
> solvents. The other main ingredient is ISOPARAFFINIC HYDROCARBONS
> (NAPHTHA
> PETROLEUM), at 10 to 20% concentration, and this stuff is at least soluble
> in non-polar solvents. The bad news is that what is likely to dissolve
> this
> ingredient is also likely to damage the plastic if it is polycarbonate
> (aka
> Lexan) or acrylic (aka Plexiglas, Lucite, Perspex). Soapy water is
> probably
> the safest choice is you are not sure if the material is plastic or glass.
> If the LCD panel is glass then just about any solvent is safe.
>
> Regardless of the substrate material, anti-reflective coatings are
> inorganic
> and thus impervious to most solvents, but are relatively delicate and will
> be damaged by aggressive rubbing.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> Irvine, California
> Europa XS Tri-Gear
> S/N A070
> Airframe complete
> I just saw a Garmin 396 last night a friend borrowed for a trip. It was in
> perfect condition when he borrowed it. The clear plastic you view the
> display through now looks like my plastic lens glasses that have a
> coating, and the coating is all crazed, many fine cracks that at first
> glance look like scratches.
>
> He fessed cleaning the display with Pledge. I suspect may have caused the
> problem?
>
> 1) How is clear plastic best (real world) cleaned on Garmin GPS?
>
> 2) What ruins plastic and is best avoided? I have a 296
>
> 3) Anyone have any ideas if you can return finish to display? Or polish it
> out?
>
> 4) Any idea how much cost to replace plastic?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another myth bites the dust. |
For a number of years, we've wrestled with a combination of
vague instructions and/or ol' mechanic's tales about using
high melting point solder on the pins of a pitot tube connector.
Thanks to the generous loan of his new 14v pitot tube, Bill
Crook made it possible to check this out.
After 2 hours of operation at 13.5 volts on the bench, a
thermocouple on the solder joints of the connector rose
to 240 degrees F, about 200 degrees lower than the melting
point for the solder.
Ordinary 63/37 solder is entirely suitable for making
these joints.
> What make and model was the pitot tube?
Aero Instruments. A PH-502-12 I believe.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hitachi Alternator |
Thought I'd update the group on my Hitachi IR alternator situation now
that the problem is behind me (I think :-)
I removed the alternator from the airplane, clamped it in my bench vise,
hooked up a 12V power supply to provide excitation current, and turned
the rotor with my electric drill. I was always able to make it start
but there were some "dead spots" as indicated by the changing current
drawn from the excitation power supply which indicated worn brushes.
Sure enough, when I opened it up I found one brush nearly gone.
I don't know how he did it but bless him: George, gmcjetpilot, was able
to tell me a make/model and a Lester number so I was able to order an
inexpensive replacement from rockauto.com. (It's used in the 1980
Nissan B720 pickup and my replacement was remanufactured by Remy).
Installed in the airplane: ops check good on a ground run. (Tomorrow
I'll fly it).
After a thorough cleanup I'll replace the brushes and keep the old unit
as a spare since the slip rings, bearings, and everything else looks good.
--
Joe
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Dubner K7JD | 523 Cedar Avenue | http://www.mail2600.com
Long-EZ 821RP | Lewiston, ID 83501 | +1 208 816-6359
--------------------------------------------------------------------
On 5/10/2007 12:09 PM Joe Dubner wrote:
> My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging system failure.
> It was intermittent at first but now it does nothing -- I flew home
> battery only. So I suspect it's time for brush replacement on my
> automotive alternator and I'd like to buy some brushes at the local auto
> parts store.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We can't build our own avionics |
Rob Turk wrote:
>
> There's an alternative system that is being used on many sailplanes in
> Europe. It's actively transmitting it's GPS coordinates on one of the
> free industrial frequency bands and listening for others. Check out
> Flarm (http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html). Depending on the local
> regulations this may 'fly' in your region too...
>
This sounds like an excellent idea. Get out of the aircraft
frequencies, into an area where special permission isn't
needed...however....
The problem I see here is that everyone needs to agree on what frequency
is being used. All the homebuilder load up with gear that can talk to
their cordless phone, and all the certified guys (including the big
iron) loads up with ADS-B equipment. We don't see them and they don't
see us. Kinda misses the point.
One of my local chapter members is helping the NC DOT push ADS-B here.
He considers $3K to be "low-cost" for such a system. My thoughts are
$100 for a GPS and $50 reciever, outputting NMEA sentences to a BASIC
stamp, which can tickle an audio chip to give the pilot warnings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Grimes Pin Outs and Installation Wiring. |
Good Evening All,
I have a Grimes P/N G-9950-1 Oscillating Beacon and a Grimes P/N 5530
Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install. I suppose if I were
a
sharper electrician I could figure out which wire goes where, but if anyone
could steer me to a pin out and/or the installation instructions for either or
both of these units I would sure be grateful.
The Oscillating Beacon has a Cannon style three pin plug receptacle which is
about one half inch in diameter. It has some labeling near the pins. May be
A, B and C, but I really can't tell for sure.
The landing light has a three pin receptacle which is about one inch in
diameter and that one is definitely labeled A, B and C.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hitachi Alternator |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Thanks for the update Joe..
Hope you have good luck with the Remy rebuilt unit.
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Thought I'd update the group on my Hitachi IR alternator situation now
> that the problem is behind me (I think :-)
>
> I removed the alternator from the airplane, clamped it in my bench vise,
> hooked up a 12V power supply to provide excitation current, and turned
> the rotor with my electric drill. I was always able to make it start
> but there were some "dead spots" as indicated by the changing current
> drawn from the excitation power supply which indicated worn brushes.
> Sure enough, when I opened it up I found one brush nearly gone.
>
> I don't know how he did it but bless him: George, gmcjetpilot, was able
> to tell me a make/model and a Lester number so I was able to order an
> inexpensive replacement from rockauto.com. (It's used in the 1980
> Nissan B720 pickup and my replacement was remanufactured by Remy).
>
> Installed in the airplane: ops check good on a ground run. (Tomorrow
> I'll fly it).
>
> After a thorough cleanup I'll replace the brushes and keep the old unit
> as a spare since the slip rings, bearings, and everything else looks good.
>
> --
> Joe
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Dubner K7JD | 523 Cedar Avenue | http://www.mail2600.com
> Long-EZ 821RP | Lewiston, ID 83501 | +1 208 816-6359
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 5/10/2007 12:09 PM Joe Dubner wrote:
>> My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging system failure.
>> It was intermittent at first but now it does nothing -- I flew home
>> battery only. So I suspect it's time for brush replacement on my
>> automotive alternator and I'd like to buy some brushes at the local auto
>> parts store.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 display crazing |
Ron,
How about picking up one of those plastic eyeglass lens
"scratch remover" kits from your local drug store for your
396? Never used one personally but the TV commercials sure
make it look good! :-)
Your antiglare coating is likely toast, but if you can get
your screen cover back to clear perhaps you can use an
adhesive-backed antiglare cover for PDA screens? I have one
on the Dell PDA that I fly with that knocks down the glare
fairly well.
Good luck,
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Hi Bob-
>I have a Grimes P/N G-9950-1 Oscillating Beacon and a Grimes P/N 5530
>Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install.
>but if anyone
>could steer me to a pin out and/or the installation instructions for
either or
>both of these units I would sure be grateful.
>The landing light has a three pin receptacle which is about one inch in
>diameter and that one is definitely labeled A, B and C.
Can't help with the beacon, but the landing light sounds like the ones on
our Harpoon. I don't know the Grimes number, but they are AN3095-2. On
these units A is retract, B is extend, C is lamp power, and the unit
grounds to the airframe mechanically through it's mounting. Our units are
switched internally such that they automatically illuminate with about 10
degrees of extension. As the Harpoon is a tail dragger, this allows the
lights to be repositioned as taxi lights. As I understand it, variants of
this light for nose draggers (eg DC-9) don't illuminate until full
extension is achieved.
Hope that helps-
>Happy Skies,
>Old Bob
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McMahon" <blackoaks(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Does anybody know if they made these in a 12v version?
and a Grimes P/N 5530
> >Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install.
> >
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
In a message dated 6/1/2007 5:33:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
blackoaks(at)gmail.com writes:
Does anybody know if they made these in a 12v version?
and a Grimes P/N 5530
>Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install.
>
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
Good Evening John,
Supposedly, mine is a twelve volt version. However, I have not yet put power
to it!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
In a message dated 6/1/2007 12:13:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net writes:
Can't help with the beacon, but the landing light sounds like the ones on
our Harpoon. I don't know the Grimes number, but they are AN3095-2. On
these units A is retract, B is extend, C is lamp power, and the unit
grounds to the airframe mechanically through it's mounting. Our units are
switched internally such that they automatically illuminate with about 10
degrees of extension. As the Harpoon is a tail dragger, this allows the
lights to be repositioned as taxi lights. As I understand it, variants of
this light for nose draggers (eg DC-9) don't illuminate until full
extension is achieved.
Hope that helps-
Good Evening Glen,
Helps a lot!
I would never have thought that they would use a case to airframe ground. I
think I can figure out the rest of it OK.
Thanks again and best of luck with the Harpoon as well as your other
projects.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Have you considered the flat plate drag area that will be produced by
the
extension of that light? It will be like big speed brakes.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing
light
In a message dated 6/1/2007 12:13:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net writes:
Can't help with the beacon, but the landing light sounds like the ones
on
our Harpoon. I don't know the Grimes number, but they are AN3095-2. On
these units A is retract, B is extend, C is lamp power, and the unit
grounds to the airframe mechanically through it's mounting. Our units
are
switched internally such that they automatically illuminate with about
10
degrees of extension. As the Harpoon is a tail dragger, this allows the
lights to be repositioned as taxi lights. As I understand it, variants
of
this light for nose draggers (eg DC-9) don't illuminate until full
extension is achieved.
Hope that helps-
Good Evening Glen,
Helps a lot!
I would never have thought that they would use a case to airframe
ground. I
think I can figure out the rest of it OK.
Thanks again and best of luck with the Harpoon as well as your other
projects.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Brown" <romott(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Noise on the Com |
I am chasing noise on my Garmin 430.
It is a clicking noise (like spark plugs) that I am picking up on the
antennae lead of my 430. The frequency changes with engine RPM. I have two
antennas - one in each winglet of my Velocity. Swapping antennas makes no
difference.
Disconnect the antenna from the radio and the noise goes away. Turn off my
Jeff Rose Electroair and the noise goes away. I have installed new spark
plugs and new ignition wires, still have the noise. Interestingly, the #2
COM, a Microair 760 does not have this noise.
I have checked grounds on my ignition system and on the 430, no problems
found.
I'm thinking of making a small antenna to connect to the 430 and use it as a
wand to locate the source. Any other ideas on locating the source?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
In a message dated 6/1/2007 6:18:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Bruce(at)glasair.org writes:
Have you considered the flat plate drag area that will be produced by the
extension of that light? It will be like big speed brakes.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
Yeah, isn't it great? Does double duty!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
Ya Dennis:
Sometimes I wonder what those (Salem, Oregon) guys at UPS AT (previously
Apollo, now Garmin) were smokin when they designed the GA Avionics line. I
just finished wiring my radio stack (all UPS AT bought before the Garmin
takeover, I put both NAV and COM on the E-bus not knowing what you just told
us).
The GX-65 and SL-30 have easy to assemble and install coax antenna
connectors that don't require removing the back of the tray. The SL-70
transponder on the other hand, has as a funky right angle connector that
requires you to take the back of the tray off (with DB-37 connector and
wires) to insert the connector and then you need an E-clip pliers to get the
retaining ring on. Definitely a hassle, especially if you're laying on your
back under the panel (which is the reason I'm installing an access panel in
my top skin).
That seems idiotic enough but this independent power supplies that both need
to be powered to work is ludicrous (I would have powered both units from one
breaker if I'd known that, I was looking to have half the radio working if
the other half went dead but obviously that will not be the case). Oh well,
I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many people
running this gauntlet from now on.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Electrical Checkout
________________________ Original Message _______________________________
>From: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin SL 30 Nav/Com Wiring
>
>I just talked to Garmin tech support, who confirmed that both the
>navigation and communication power supplies must be powered for either one
>to work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi Dean,
> Oh well,
> I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
> discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many people
> running this gauntlet from now on.
>
where do you have this information from? I've just checked their website
and SL-30 and SL-40 are still there.
Would be a shame to discontinue that fine line of com/navcom radios!
br
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> |
Dean,
How/where did you hear of Garmin discontinuing the SL30. I don't doubt it,
but it's still listed on their web site.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 power
Ya Dennis:
Sometimes I wonder what those (Salem, Oregon) guys at UPS AT (previously
Apollo, now Garmin) were smokin when they designed the GA Avionics line. I
just finished wiring my radio stack (all UPS AT bought before the Garmin
takeover, I put both NAV and COM on the E-bus not knowing what you just told
us).
The GX-65 and SL-30 have easy to assemble and install coax antenna
connectors that don't require removing the back of the tray. The SL-70
transponder on the other hand, has as a funky right angle connector that
requires you to take the back of the tray off (with DB-37 connector and
wires) to insert the connector and then you need an E-clip pliers to get the
retaining ring on. Definitely a hassle, especially if you're laying on your
back under the panel (which is the reason I'm installing an access panel in
my top skin).
That seems idiotic enough but this independent power supplies that both need
to be powered to work is ludicrous (I would have powered both units from one
breaker if I'd known that, I was looking to have half the radio working if
the other half went dead but obviously that will not be the case). Oh well,
I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many people
running this gauntlet from now on.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Electrical Checkout
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
It would seem especially odd for Garmin to discontinue the SL-30 and 40
series, as they are the VHF components in the GNS-480 as well. Also,
none of the VHF components in the GNS-430/530 compare in quality to the
SL-30. Every navcom on the market, AFAIK, except the SL-30 series use
analog components. The SL-30 gets its flexibility to monitor 2
frequencies simultaneously from doing everything digitally with DSP's
which also improve its sensitivity and spurious frequency rejection. I'd
be surprised if Garmin changes anything until they have a new line of do
everything IFR GPSs to replace the 430 and 480 with something that
combines the best of both.
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dean,
>> Oh well,
>> I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
>> discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many people
>> running this gauntlet from now on.
> where do you have this information from? I've just checked their
> website and SL-30 and SL-40 are still there.
>
> Would be a shame to discontinue that fine line of com/navcom radios!
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
The only reason Garmin would discontinue the SL-30 is if they could
force buyers to purchase something else that cost less to build and they
could sell at a higher price. The SL-30 is an excellent radio and I
doubt that Garmin will improve on it much, they that doesn't mean they
wouldn't discontinue it for other "marketing" reasons.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 power
-->
It would seem especially odd for Garmin to discontinue the SL-30 and 40
series, as they are the VHF components in the GNS-480 as well. Also,
none of the VHF components in the GNS-430/530 compare in quality to the
SL-30. Every navcom on the market, AFAIK, except the SL-30 series use
analog components. The SL-30 gets its flexibility to monitor 2
frequencies simultaneously from doing everything digitally with DSP's
which also improve its sensitivity and spurious frequency rejection. I'd
be surprised if Garmin changes anything until they have a new line of do
everything IFR GPSs to replace the 430 and 480 with something that
combines the best of both.
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dean,
>> Oh well,
>> I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
>> discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many
people
>> running this gauntlet from now on.
> where do you have this information from? I've just checked their
> website and SL-30 and SL-40 are still there.
>
> Would be a shame to discontinue that fine line of com/navcom radios!
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "6440 Auto Parts" <sales(at)6440autoparts.com> |
Garmin is discontinuing the SL30 ? I just went to their website, they
make no mention of it there. If this is true I hope they are going to
replace it with something even better. Hard to believe though, since it is
such a nice radio a such a small package.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 power
>
> I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued the SL-30 (they
> discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be many people
> running this gauntlet from now on.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Electrical Checkout
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> |
Alternate Viewpoint:
It makes perfect sense for Garmin to discontinue the SL30. Garmin is making
the 1000, 900, GMX200, etc. Those compete with Chelton, GRT, OPTech, etc.
Without the SL30, the competition's customers are faced with installing two
530/430/480 etc for nav/com (a relatively expensive proposition) or using
other older style comms (i.e. KX155), which are relatively outdated in form
and function. Thus, Garmin isn't likely to loose many sales if they
discontinue the SL30/40 - Rather they'll gain business with their other
products and significantly dis-advantage their EFIS competition. I'm not
familiar with many (any) certified GA planes which come with an SL30. So,
there's not much (any) loss there. I'm not saying I like it - but that's
business.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
It would seem especially odd for Garmin to discontinue the SL-30 and 40
Series...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | SL-30 discontinued.....NOT |
Sorry about the false alarm folks, I meant to say that Garmin has
discontinued the SL-70 transponder, NOT the SL-30 Nav/Com. The SL-30 is a
real winner and Garmin knows that so they're going to keep it around for a
while (at least until all the VORs get decommissioned then it'll only be
good for com).
Dean
________________________ Original Message _______________________________
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 power
Ya Dennis:
.................Oh well, I just learned that Garmin has also discontinued
the SL-30 (they discontinued the GX-65 a couple years ago) so there won't be
many people running this gauntlet from now on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Bob Nuckolls Seminar |
I just finished a weekend Aeroelectric seminar with Bob Nuckolls at EAA
chapter 1158 in West Bend, WI. I can't say enough about this
experience. Bob's presentation and class were outstanding. Bob is the
kind of guy you would like to sit with for hours picking his brain. His
knowledge and experience with aviation electronics is vast. I recommend
this class to anyone able to attend. I came away with much more
confidence that I would be able to dive into my electrical system and do
a good job. He cleared up many myths and misconceptions about aircraft
wiring methods and backed up all his ideas very clearly. All his
methods are centered on safety, simplicity and also cost saving! I was
surprised at how many things I thought I should have in my system that
Bob showed us are not needed or could be done much simpler and for less
money and safer too! It is obvious that he really loves to pass on all
the experience he has gained and he is very good at it. Thanks Bob for
a great Seminar!
Oh yeah, Chapter 1158 has a beautiful facility and were great hosts for
this event. Thanks EAA 1158!
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
Muskego, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls Seminar |
Good Morning All,
I was also able to attend the West Bend seminar.
Matt asks that we not just post "Me Too!" messages, but Dave has stated it
so well that all I can do is agree.
Well worth the $time$ and dollars spent.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:16:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com writes:
I just finished a weekend Aeroelectric seminar with Bob Nuckolls at EAA
chapter 1158 in West Bend, WI. I can't say enough about this experience. Bob's
presentation and class were outstanding. Bob is the kind of guy you would
like to sit with for hours picking his brain. His knowledge and experience
with aviation electronics is vast. I recommend this class to anyone able to
attend. I came away with much more confidence that I would be able to dive
into my electrical system and do a good job. He cleared up many myths and
misconceptions about aircraft wiring methods and backed up all his ideas very
clearly. All his methods are centered on safety, simplicity and also cost
saving! I was surprised at how many things I thought I should have in my system
that Bob showed us are not needed or could be done much simpler and for less
money and safer too! It is obvious that he really loves to pass on all the
experience he has gained and he is very good at it. Thanks Bob for a great
Seminar!
Oh yeah, Chapter 1158 has a beautiful facility and were great hosts for this
event. Thanks EAA 1158!
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
Muskego, WI
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Heated pitot tube electrical connector |
Folks,
I am looking for a replacement connector for my AN5814 heated pitot/static tube.
The connector has a part number of AN3115-1.
Any help would be appreciated,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Burnaby" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls Seminar |
Preaching to the choir, but I understand....you just gotta tell somebody
about this phenomenal living resource!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
>Does anybody know if they made these in a 12v version?
>
>
>> and a Grimes P/N 5530
>> >Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install.
>> >
There are a number of 12 and 24 volt, retractable landing lights
out there in the wild. Of course, they've not been installed in
a production aircraft for many moons. A C-120.5 I used to fly
had one on it as did many other Cessnas of the 40's and 50's I
had the pleasure to ride in and/or touch.
I've always thought that a modern incarnation of this product
was worthy of consideration. The devices mount on the underside
of the wing (less prone to leaking due to rain in both parked
and flying conditions), easier to install, easier to design for
adjustability (pointing) and offers a degree of in-flight
adjustability for optimum illumination in a steep approach but
can be lowered to optimize illumination for taxi.
If you find a 24v device you'd like to use, just put a 14v lamp
in it and run the motor on half voltage. It will still work, just
slower. A group of folks I'm working with these days are really into
small, modern actuators . . . we might come up with a retractable
light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or
even an LED light bulb.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Noise on the Com |
>
>I am chasing noise on my Garmin 430.
>
>It is a clicking noise (like spark plugs) that I am picking up on the
>antennae lead of my 430. The frequency changes with engine RPM. I have
>two antennas - one in each winglet of my Velocity. Swapping antennas
>makes no difference.
>
>Disconnect the antenna from the radio and the noise goes away. Turn off
>my Jeff Rose Electroair and the noise goes away. I have installed new
>spark plugs and new ignition wires, still have the noise. Interestingly,
>the #2 COM, a Microair 760 does not have this noise.
>
>I have checked grounds on my ignition system and on the 430, no problems
>found.
>
>I'm thinking of making a small antenna to connect to the 430 and use it as
>a wand to locate the source. Any other ideas on locating the source?
The sniffer probe is a good idea. See if you can
hear the noise on a hand held. Use headphones so
that you minimize environmental noises. Use handy
length of coax and probes like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Sniffer_Probes.jpg
to poke around the wires and black boxes.
Try running the ignition system off of it's own battery.
Get a couple of 6v lantern batteries to hook in series
as a test supply. It's just possible that the noise is
coming out of the power supply leads and being radiated
by ship's wiring such that the radio hears it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
>In a message dated 6/1/2007 5:33:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>blackoaks(at)gmail.com writes:
>Does anybody know if they made these in a 12v version?
>
>
> and a Grimes P/N 5530
> >Retractable Landing Light which I would like to install.
> >
>
>
>--
>John McMahon
>Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
>
>Good Evening John,
>
>Supposedly, mine is a twelve volt version. However, I have not yet put
>power to it!
>
Bob, Consider acquiring a current limited, adjustable power supply
like this:
http://tinyurl.com/3yrvaq
You can set this puppy up for 14v output and turn the
current limit down to 1A or so and safely probe the pins
of the device to see which ones cause the motor to move and
which way. The lamp will be connected to it's own pins and
this little power supply will simply stall into a perceived
dead short when you find those pins.
One pin will be common to the motor and two other pins
will be extend and retract. I'll bet that the motor stuff
all happens on A, B and C while the lamp pins will be somewhere
else in the constellation.
Alternatively to the power supply, rig a test setup with
a battery, and put some 1-2A light bulb in series with
the leads to the test probes. Shorting the probes will
produce a limited current flow. You can parallel a number
of small lamps to get the 1-2A rating . . . back-up lamps
for cars are hot prospects.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
I'll take 2, 24v, please consider HID lights.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light
If you find a 24v device you'd like to use, just put a 14v lamp
in it and run the motor on half voltage. It will still work, just
slower. A group of folks I'm working with these days are really into
small, modern actuators . . . we might come up with a retractable
light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or
even an LED light bulb.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls Seminar |
>I just finished a weekend Aeroelectric seminar with Bob Nuckolls at EAA
>chapter 1158 in West Bend, WI. I can't say enough about this
>experience. Bob's presentation and class were outstanding. Bob is the
>kind of guy you would like to sit with for hours picking his brain. His
>knowledge and experience with aviation electronics is vast. I recommend
>this class to anyone able to attend. I came away with much more
>confidence that I would be able to dive into my electrical system and do a
>good job. He cleared up many myths and misconceptions about aircraft
>wiring methods and backed up all his ideas very clearly. All his methods
>are centered on safety, simplicity and also cost saving! I was surprised
>at how many things I thought I should have in my system that Bob showed us
>are not needed or could be done much simpler and for less money and safer
>too! It is obvious that he really loves to pass on all the experience he
>has gained and he is very good at it. Thanks Bob for a great Seminar!
>
Thank you my friend for those kind words . . . and validating
our mission for offering these programs.
>Oh yeah, Chapter 1158 has a beautiful facility and were great hosts for
>this event. Thanks EAA 1158!
You got that right. I'm going to cultivate and ongoing
relationship with this forward looking, very energetic
chapter with an educational mission.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
I'll take two too, 12 v., HID
Best Regards,
Steve
____________________________________________________________________
On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>
> I'll take 2, 24v, please consider HID lights.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 1:15 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing
> light
>
>
>
>
> If you find a 24v device you'd like to use, just put a 14v lamp
> in it and run the motor on half voltage. It will still work, just
> slower. A group of folks I'm working with these days are really into
> small, modern actuators . . . we might come up with a retractable
> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or
> even an LED light bulb.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and
found the following statement on the XeVision site:
"We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing-
tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)."
It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com.
Best Regards,
Steve T
____________________________________________________________________
On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> we might come up with a retractable
> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or
> even an LED light bulb.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | wig wag HID lights |
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from CreativeAir.
True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <wslaughter(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | wig wag HID lights |
True. HID lights cannot turn on and off quickly.
William Slaughter
RV-8 Fuselage
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from CreativeAir.
True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | wig wag HID lights |
CreativAir sells an HID wigwagger, whey don't you ask them?
Alan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from CreativeAir.
True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | wig wag HID lights |
Um, hate to argue, but don't think that is true...
See - http://www.creativair.com/wigwag-flasher-halogen-lamps-p-89.html
plus I know others who routinely wigwag HID's.
Alan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Slaughter
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
True. HID lights cannot turn on and off quickly.
William Slaughter
RV-8 Fuselage
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from CreativeAir.
True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
Hi,
I would like to fabricate a small PCB to provide an isolated (or two
isolated) 9V DC supplies (< 250mA each) from the ship 12/14V feed.
I'm happy with designing the PCBs layout / fabrication etc from a schematic
but have been struggling to find a simple solution. My gut feeling is there
should be a IC out there that does this for me with a few additional
external components - any suggestions?
Thanks,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
Don't they make 7809's? A single part, maybe need a cap or resistor to
current limit it, but pretty sure they are avail. Look for LM7809 as a
start, probably all kinds of versions.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Morgan
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers
-->
Hi,
I would like to fabricate a small PCB to provide an isolated (or two
isolated) 9V DC supplies (< 250mA each) from the ship 12/14V feed.
I'm happy with designing the PCBs layout / fabrication etc from a schematic
but have been struggling to find a simple solution. My gut feeling is there
should be a IC out there that does this for me with a few additional
external components - any suggestions?
Thanks,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
Carl,
Try this NDY1209C A couple of capacitors and you have an isolated
supply. I have a couple of the 200ma (NDL1209SC) versions for my ANR
power but I have not yet tested everything although the power supplies
are working fine. I wired them on a piece of perf board.
Purchased from: www.mouser.com
C&D Web site: http://store.cd4power.com
C&D Technologies, Inc.
11 Cabot Boulevard, Mansfield, MA 02048-1151, USA
Tel: + (508) 339-3000
Fax: +(800) 233-2765
email: sales(at)cdtechno.com
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
My (limited) understanding is these are similar to the LM315 / 350 type
devices - 3 legged and don't use an isolated ground.
Cheers,
Carl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Adamson [mailto:aadamson(at)highrf.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2007 12:12 p.m.
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers
>
>
>
>
> Don't they make 7809's? A single part, maybe need a cap or resistor to
> current limit it, but pretty sure they are avail. Look for LM7809 as a
> start, probably all kinds of versions.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Morgan
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:53 PM
> To: AeroElectric List
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers
>
> -->
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to fabricate a small PCB to provide an isolated (or two
> isolated) 9V DC supplies (< 250mA each) from the ship 12/14V feed.
>
> I'm happy with designing the PCBs layout / fabrication etc from a
> schematic
> but have been struggling to find a simple solution. My gut
> feeling is there
> should be a IC out there that does this for me with a few additional
> external components - any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
> --
> ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>
>
> 4/06/2007 6:43 p.m.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Garner <jgarner(at)dslextreme.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
Hard to beat one or two of these at ~$13 ea...
Dont know if you can get them in NZ though?
HTH, Joe
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=184688&Row=24103&Site=US
Carl Morgan wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to fabricate a small PCB to provide an isolated (or two
> isolated) 9V DC supplies (< 250mA each) from the ship 12/14V feed.
>
> I'm happy with designing the PCBs layout / fabrication etc from a schematic
> but have been struggling to find a simple solution. My gut feeling is there
> should be a IC out there that does this for me with a few additional
> external components - any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
> --
> ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers |
Do you actually need isolated 9V? If so, then the solution suggested by
Mr. Hoover should be okay. But note carefully that those devices have a
minimum load (25% or 83mA for the one in question). Specifically what
happens under that load is not specified, but they do say that the
ripple increases significantly. Maybe Mr. Hoover can tell us what
happens at very low or no loads as he has some of these units (assuming
he has access to an oscilloscope).
If you do not need isolation, then the other suggestion of using a 7809
is a good one. This part needs only a small input and a small output
capacitor (similar to the NDY1209C but can use a lower quality cap).
They are available from many manufacturers and are very cheap. The
NDY1209C specifies 78% efficiency at full load which is not bad but
probably falls at lighter loads. The 7809 will run at 63% efficiency
for all loads (14.2V in and 9V out). While the difference between 78%
and 63% may seem like a lot to some, and for high power applications it
would be, for this application the difference is only 1/2W. You might
need a small heat sink on the 7809 depending on what your actual load is.
Dick Tasker
Carl Morgan wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I would like to fabricate a small PCB to provide an isolated (or two
>isolated) 9V DC supplies (< 250mA each) from the ship 12/14V feed.
>
>I'm happy with designing the PCBs layout / fabrication etc from a schematic
>but have been struggling to find a simple solution. My gut feeling is there
>should be a IC out there that does this for me with a few additional
>external components - any suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl
>--
>ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand
>http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wig wag HID lights |
I did. Thanks!
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Adamson
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
CreativAir sells an HID wigwagger, whey don't you ask them?
Alan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:50 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from
CreativeAir. True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Cupitt" <mark(at)metalcrafters.ph> |
| Subject: | Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V |
Hi There Folks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircraft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there a
way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamps.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | wig wag HID lights |
Bizarre Dave... Not trying to poke at you.. Seriously, they have a device on
their website that is used to wig-wag HID's. I talked them them numerous
times while they were in search for the 2" versions that they have and they
said they were flashable. I know people who have used a simple timer
circuit to flash them too....
Ah, well as an old boss of mine use to say.... "I guess the truth changed".
Sorry, done correctly (with a warm up time), they should be able to be
flashed. Even XeVsion sells a flasher for theirs.
Alan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I did. Thanks!
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan <mailto:aadamson(at)highrf.com> Adamson
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
CreativAir sells an HID wigwagger, whey don't you ask them?
Alan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wig wag HID lights
I was told I cannot wig wag the HID lights I purchased from CreativeAir.
True or False???
Dave Leikam
RV-10 40496
QB Wings
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
| Subject: | Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V |
Boy we are onto this topic tonight aren't we... Let's see for 5v it's a
7805, for 9v it's a 7809, to get to 12v from higher, it's a 7812. They even
make a 7810 for 10v... Negative voltage versions are 79xx :)
Try LM7805 with a small number of additional components. All the major
mailorder places carry them, but can't tell you where to go in the
Philippines.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Cupitt
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
-->
Hi There Folks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircraft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there a
way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamps.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Amp sensing with hall effect |
| From: | "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com> |
I started witring up my hall sensor tonight but thought I should get a peer review
on my electrical monitoring concept before I go further. My particulars are:
RV-7A
Z-13/8 with fuse blocks
GRT EIS-4000
GRT Horizon 1 EFIS (single)
P-Mag, E-Mag
I wired up a single hall effect sensor with 3 wires going through it: M-bus feed
from a FW mounted ANL; B-bus feed from the hot side of the battery contactor;
SD-8 feed from the SD-8 relay to the B-bus. My architecture is based on the
ability to read total bus amperage on 1 sensor in both primary and alternate operating
modes. Operating in either mode will show the total amps: in primary
mode the M-bus and B-bus will be totaled (of course the M-bus will include the
E-bus through the diode); in alternate mode, the SD-8 feed will be added to the
sensor on its way to the B-bus, thense to the E-bus. Battery charging can be
determined by subtracting total bus amps from the alternator output to determine
amps available to charge the battery. As I have both the SD-8 and a P-mag,
I'm less concerned about knowing the exact in/out amperage condition of the
battery than I am with knowing my actual bus amps when operating on the SD-8.
I don't desire to add a second sensor or a switching capability.
The GRT system will show bus voltage with ample low voltage warning in all operating
modes.
Just asking for comments to see if I missed anything before I commit the acts of
cutting, stripping, crimping, soldering and drilling.
Thanks,
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116592#116592
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
In a message dated 6/4/2007 11:34:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckollsr(at)cox.net writes:
Bob, Consider acquiring a current limited, adjustable power supply
like this:
http://tinyurl.com/3yrvaq
You can set this puppy up for 14v output and turn the
current limit down to 1A or so and safely probe the pins
of the device to see which ones cause the motor to move and
which way. The lamp will be connected to it's own pins and
this little power supply will simply stall into a perceived
dead short when you find those pins.
One pin will be common to the motor and two other pins
will be extend and retract. I'll bet that the motor stuff
all happens on A, B and C while the lamp pins will be somewhere
else in the constellation.
Alternatively to the power supply, rig a test setup with
a battery, and put some 1-2A light bulb in series with
the leads to the test probes. Shorting the probes will
produce a limited current flow. You can parallel a number
of small lamps to get the 1-2A rating . . . back-up lamps
for cars are hot prospects.
Bob . . .
Sounds great! I'll give it a try.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Amp sensing with hall effect |
>
>I started witring up my hall sensor tonight but thought I should get a
>peer review on my electrical monitoring concept before I go further. My
>particulars are:
>RV-7A
>Z-13/8 with fuse blocks
>GRT EIS-4000
>GRT Horizon 1 EFIS (single)
>P-Mag, E-Mag
>
>I wired up a single hall effect sensor with 3 wires going through it:
>M-bus feed from a FW mounted ANL; B-bus feed from the hot side of the
>battery contactor; SD-8 feed from the SD-8 relay to the B-bus. My
>architecture is based on the ability to read total bus amperage on 1
>sensor in both primary and alternate operating modes. Operating in either
>mode will show the total amps: in primary mode the M-bus and B-bus will be
>totaled (of course the M-bus will include the E-bus through the diode); in
>alternate mode, the SD-8 feed will be added to the sensor on its way to
>the B-bus, thense to the E-bus. Battery charging can be determined by
>subtracting total bus amps from the alternator output to determine amps
>available to charge the battery. As I have both the SD-8 and a P-mag, I'm
>less concerned about knowing the exact in/out amperage condition of the
>battery than I am with knowing my actual bus amps when operating on the
>SD-8. I don't desire to add a second sensor or a switching!
> capability.
>
>The GRT system will show bus voltage with ample low voltage warning in all
>operating modes.
>
>Just asking for comments to see if I missed anything before I commit the
>acts of cutting, stripping, crimping, soldering and drilling.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jekyll
Sounds like you're anticipating the need for
knowing what currents are being draw for a variety
of flight configurations and making a determination
on-the-fly as to whether the alternator possesses
sufficient capability to accommodate the battery.
The BEST way to accomplish this is to do it in
advance. There are no flight configurations for
which power requirements can be deduced in advance.
This process is called a load analysis. The archives
are rich in conversation on this topic. Starting
on page 4 of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List/AeroElectric-List_FAQ.pdf
You'll find some filtered discussions on the
topic. You can do a paper analysis with the aid of a
form like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf
There's a repository on the website for sample
load analysis conducted by members of this list in
Excel. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/
You can take one of these offerings as a starting
point for doing your own load analysis.
While the installation you propose is technically
correct, it also suggests that you're adding
instrumentation features to deduce what you should
already know, and have A, B, C and D plans for.
Making such real-time, in-flight measurements
gives you more work to do as a systems manager
and steals time and attention better expended
as a pilot.
Bob . . .
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116592#116592
>
>
>--
>6:43 PM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
I just got off the phone with Mark Forss at EAA's forums
office and we've schedule some time in the tents for Thursday
afternoon and then again Friday afternoon/evening. The Friday
session will be an open Q&A format that can run as long as
anyone wants.
Hope to meet many of you there!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Amp sensing with hall effect |
| From: | "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com> |
Thanks for the rapid reply. I've done a complete load analysis and update it whenever
I make any changes.
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116681#116681
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Grief, $$$, lots of time, don't fly at night or just bragging rights,
I found an easy solution is to take the XV-36-H1 (or similar)
offered by XeVision and install it in the front intake on the cowling
(everyone has one or two). No fancy doors or mechanisms, just two AN
bolts, power and ground. Nothing could be easier and it is out of the
air stream (retracted). There is no substantial airflow lost. I do most
of my flying at night and this arrangement works very well pointing the
light directly where you need it. Concealed or retractable headlights
are just one more thing to go wrong. Anyone who has owned, cougars,
tornados, thunderbirds or Cadillac's can attest to that issue.
When you get good you don't need a landing light :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing
light
I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and
found the following statement on the XeVision site:
"We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing-
tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)."
It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com.
Best Regards,
Steve T
____________________________________________________________________
On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> we might come up with a retractable
> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or even
> an LED light bulb.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "galaxyone(at)juno.com" <galaxyone(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V |
One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always told that wh
en you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output is
smoke!
All the suggestions were for DC.
Henry
From: "Mark Cupitt" <mark(at)metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
Hi There Folks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircra
ft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there
a
way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamp
s.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines
One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always tol
d that when you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the
output is smoke!
All the suggestions were for DC.
Henry
lick="top.checkNewBrowser('26?To=mark(at)metalcrafters.ph&count=1
181074106')" href="http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inb
ox&msgNum=0000Pp00:0016PGtD00001QK^&block=1&msgNature=
all&msgStatus=all&count=1181074100&content=central#"><
FONT color=#0066cc>mark(at)metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: Ae
roElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
Hi There Fol
ks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a
12V aircraft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would
guess. Is there a
way to do it with resistors. The current requireme
nt is 200-300 milliamps.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommend
ations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines