AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hi

October 29, 2007 - November 10, 2007



      >> on sites like Barnstormers.
      >>
      >> If you need Mode-S in your area any time soon then you may want to look 
      >> at Filser. Their TRT800 transponder has the encoder built-in, so only 
      >> static pressure is needed. They have versions that fit 2 1/4" round panel 
      >> cut-outs and versions that are drop-in replacement for the square boxes.
      >>
      >> Rob
      >>
      >>
      >
      > Thanks for the heads-up.  I'll just wait.
      >
      >>> 
      >>>
      >>> Transponders seem to be like hammers.  Everybody needs one, and within 
      >>> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
      >>>
      >>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude 
      >>> encoder.  If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy 
      >>> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that 
      >>> most seem to want.  Other than that, I have no extraordinary 
      >>> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always.  Maybe an occasional 
      >>> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, 
      >>> because the wife is with me.  Power is a non-issue.  I live in the 
      >>> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to 
      >>> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
      >>>
      >>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts 
      >>> serial input?
      >>>
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted
> >David, > >Am of the opinion the use of the Dynon D-180, or any other EFIS with >internal battery backup, justifies a simplification to Bob's method of >feeding the Endurance Bus. In your diagram, remove the Note 12 diode, >remove the Avionics Master Switch and connect the 14AWG wire which fed the >diode from the Main Bus to the unused contact on the 1-3 E-Bus Alt Feed Switch. . . . which makes the alternate feed switch a single point of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >This results in fewer parts and eliminates the voltage drop across the >diode along with the heat the diode generates. While Bob specifies a very >robust unit, the heat sensitive diode is still a weak link compared to the >other components in the path. But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive" is it? Can you quantify these assertions against the components published capabilities and limits? >Now, come an electrical emergency (fire, trim runaway, A/P failure, >alternator runaway, etc.), you have one and only one consistent action to >take.. turn off the battery master. Continue to fly the plane with the >EFIS (and your GPS as backup). At your leisure: 1) tell the EFIS and GPS >you want them to continue to operate on their internal battery power 2) >turn off everything fed by the Endurance Bus 3) switch the Endurance Bus >Alternate Feed to Battery Direct and 4) turn on each E-Bus load one at a >time and verify the item doesn't contribute to the problem. > >Would also suggest the use of combined circuit breaker-switches instead of >the acres of breakers and separate switches of most aircraft. > >Fewer components, simpler procedures. Bob, what are the negatives to this >approach? Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices, expensive and require that you build "the bus" right on the back of a row of switches in addition to other busses along the backs of breakers that are not switches. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_1.jpg We used about 80,000 of this breaker/switch in Beech products over the past 40 years or so. They would not be my first choice for today's elegant design . . . like helicopters, waayyyy to many moving parts going in different directions. The short path to Nirvana are the fuseblocks. The busses are already fabricated, they're mounted out of the way in minutes and do not encroach on panel space. I'll remind readers that the architectures depicted in the z-figures offer specific features for operation and failure mitigation. When modifying an architectural feature of the drawings for the purpose of some customization, be aware that you may be tossing out some salient feature. While in Houston this weekend for a seminar, I received a direct e-mail with several attachments from a reader who likes the book and thought the z-figures were really helpful. He then offers up his own vision of how he would like to wire the airplane hoping for a few hours of my time to do critical design review. What he proposes will offer precisely the functionality he is striving for but ignores the thought processes that go into minimum parts count, low cost of ownership, optimum performance design based on the histories for failures and their potential consequences. It's much more useful application of your and my time to ask first how some potentially ignored failure mode or missing operational feature can be handled with a modification to a z-figure. One the all eggs are broken and scrambled, the recipe is now yours to cook and savor with all it's new features. In these situations, it goes to individual taste at the expense of the science and logic. I'm not suggesting for a minute that changes are bad or that the z-figures are "golden". I'm only saying that these recipes for success are refined over years of consideration at the operations and fabrication level. Proposed change may well be the next step forward but these are best accomplished incrementally. One step at a time and with lots of eyes and gray-matter pondering the consequences both intended and unintended. I hope that none of you feels that you've waded into the tar pit and that years of experience would save you from potential hazards. Know that some of my customers with decades of experience are doing the same thing. Seems that everyone with a voltmeter and a screwdriver in hand believes that little tweaks to a design are intellectually satisfying or bureaucratically prudent while offering up little risk or cost. 'Tis not so. I'm struggling with a "simple" design change mandated by what appears to be an ill-informed, upper level manager that seriously impacts failure modes, installation effort/risk and increases costs of ownership by $thousands$ per ship-set. As soon as first-articles are delivered and the consequences of their decisions become apparent on the iron-bird, I'm going to suggest that my services might best be utilized elsewhere. These experiences reinforce an observation by one of my heros who accurately noted that one may know a great deal and still understand nothing. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Z-19 ECU wiring question
From: "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Ken, That is all good advice, especially about separating the coil feeds. You are right, I can fly on 3 cylinders so that would be some measure of safety. I am still waiting for the mfg to get back to me but I am leaning towards having separate feeds for all three (ecu/coils/injectors). Yes, I need ALL of them to fly but their loads vary widely and it makes sense to fuse each on appropriately. Thanks again, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142486#142486 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation
Date: Oct 29, 2007
We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system. Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground power plug. What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series? We already have a B-D 12v charger with the following details: 110 Amp Engine Start - 40 Amp / 20 Amp / 10 Amp / 4 Amp Continuous Charge Rates - Smart Battery Charger Model # VEC1093DBD 3 stage, automatic, high-frequency charging technology Microprocessor control digital diagnostics & fault codes Spark-resistant reverse hook-up & overcharge protection Patented vehicle alternator check & engine start feature Automatic float mode monitoring See it here: http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15580 ERic-- RV-10 N104EP ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:47:06 -0600 > > >Looking for a 24v battery charger; recommendations? > >Two tasks: charging & maintaining > >Does one charger do both well? > >ERic-- >RV-10 N104EP Is your battery a "real" 24V device or a pair of 12s in series? 24V hardware is rare compared to 12V stuff. In fact, I'm not aware of any 24 charger/maintainers but I'm sure they're out there. A Google search is the place to start. If you have a pair of 12s, consider a pair of Battery Tender like: http://www.batteryweb.com/batterytender-detail.cfm?Model=021-0123 http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpg I've found these "in the wild" for a little as $29 plus shipping. They recharge like this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf You'll find a LOT of 24v battery service products but you'll not too that their prices are not nearly as attractive as the "wall wart" style tenders. Know too that Schumacher products sold at Wall Mart are now "smart chargers". See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_WM-1562.jpg and recharge like this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg Their smallest models are on the order of $20 each and you don't need to pay shipping Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Power Cord
> > > >Way off topic but I need help. My very old Dell Latitude D600 power cord >(PA-6 type cord) just gave up the ghost!!!! >Local stores have none.......checks of various net providers have come up >empty. Any ideas where I might get one of theses. Contact one or more of these guys: http://stores.ebay.com/CSR-Technologies http://stores.ebay.com/eTechTronix http://stores.ebay.com/CentricPC-Store Seems a bunch of D600's have flooded onto the good-used/refurbished market. I've purchase two of them recently myself. These guys are certain to have residuals from machines broken beyond practical repair. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation
> > >We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system. > >Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground >power plug. > >What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series? Not practical. A 'smart' charger needs to see the battery that it's chartered to manage. When you add another charger in series, all bets for performance are off. I can sketch you the circuit for a 24v "tender" if you wanted to build one. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: emrath(at)comcast.net
Subject: Transponders
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the Dynon Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it that you can get. A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an expensive way to go driven by the converter. Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another. I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down). What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts serial input?

Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the Dynon Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it that you can get.  A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an expensive way to go driven by the converter.

Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday

is a n on-issue.  I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).

What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
serial input?


      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio Static Help
From: "ScooterF15" <jsmcgrew(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Hi, I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer: I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition. I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a list of some things I have tried with no luck. General -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both at the same time) --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics Antenna/Coaxial cable -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax. -Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried various routings to antennas) -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static) --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related Power/ground -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends -Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a filter -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference from other wires -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still has static -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground. -Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions. Thanks. -Jim N312JE Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v? ERic-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Have a look at these: http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/24-volt/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v? ERic-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 29, 2007
The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another. I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down). What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts serial input? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 24v Battery Charger
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Here's where the 24v aircraft battery charger road leads: http://www.thebatteryminder.com/24vaircraftbatteryminder-p-76.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio Static Help
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running? Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it goes away. If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a piece...then turn off your mag in flight. frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ScooterF15 Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:33 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help Hi, I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer: I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip! VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition. I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a list of some things I have tried with no luck. General -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both at the same time) --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics Antenna/Coaxial cable -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax. -Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried various routings to antennas) -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static) --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related Power/ground -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends -Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a filter -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference from other wires -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still has static -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground. -Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions. Thanks. -Jim N312JE Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight? Regards, Matt- > > Hi, > > I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer: > > I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached > to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not > obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have a > hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip! > VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when > used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition. > > I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any > suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a > list of some things I have tried with no luck. > > > General > -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both > at the same time) > --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics > > Antenna/Coaxial cable > -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax. -Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried > various routings to antennas) > -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static) > --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related > > Power/ground > -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends -Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a > filter > -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference from other wires > -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery > -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still > has static > -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray > -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground. -Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires > > > I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions. > > Thanks. > > -Jim > N312JE > > Jim "Scooter" McGrew > http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
Frank, I've only been flying for a year. It seems like the problem has grown worse in the last 6 months. I just did an annual an changed out all my plugs (auto on top / aviation on bottom). Thanks. Jim In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:10:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running? Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it goes away. If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a piece...then turn off your mag in flight. frank Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
Yes, the intercom is completely clear when in flight with and without the other 3 headsets plugged in. For most of the testing I turned my GMA-340 off so the pilot's headset is wired directly to the SL-30 and the intercom is not operating - this does not effect the static. Thanks. -Jim In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:12:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mprather(at)spro.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight? Regards, Matt- Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
Michel Creek wrote: > > The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall > value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. > > Could you define what "overall value" means to you? When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean, 'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous. Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface. Uncomplicated. EASY! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest > Christley > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation > > > > Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within > very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another. > > I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude > encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy > and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that > most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary > requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional > 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, > because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the > crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to > give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down). > > What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts > serial input? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 29, 2007
The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor for repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase. For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80 converter previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the 320 does not use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is eliminated. Cavity tubes can be expensive to replace and generate a lot of heat. I looked at purchasing several used KT76A transponders and they were going to run about $900+ plus shipping. There was no telling how long any of these would run before the cavity tube needed replacing. I estimated the cavity tube would cost overall about $300 to replace and I would have to do that at least once in the next five years (probably much sooner), plus I would be getting a piece of equipment with unknown history and potentially other problems (add more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A can be had for about $1,300 so why pay basically the same price for a used piece of electronics with questionable history and reliability concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up and go fly. You will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going forward and that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a very basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167 Check pricing at Stark Avionics: http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the Garmin GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles. This is also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or new market (with cavity tubes). -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation Michel Creek wrote: >> >> >> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall >> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. >> >> >Could you define what "overall value" means to you? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted
Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently disagree because: Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >> Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >> Disagree this is a fatal flaw. 1) The failure rate of a robust switch, occasionally switching zero current (in my scenario), is vanishingly small. 2) Even if the switch fails, the Dynon and GPS continue to run, giving me time to land. 3) If I ever intend to be in the clouds for more than "oops, do a 180 back to not in the clouds" then I have a 2nd Nav/Com and Xpndr on the main bus. This gives me the ability to stay upright, navigate and, perhaps with ATC help, land in hard IFR. Me: << eliminates the voltage drop across the diode along with the heat the diode generates. .. robust unit, the heat sensitive diode is still a weak link compared to the other components >> Bob: << But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive" is it? Can you quantify these assertions >> I've managed to fry many a semiconductor device in my career. The crossover diode is a semiconductor device and thus "heat sensitive" compared to wires, connectors, even switches, etc. This is what I said. Robust but weak compared to other components. Don't have numbers but have no doubt if I short out the E-bus, the diode will melt. Do admit my aversion to the voltage drop and power loss of the diode is a personal prejudice. Me: << combined circuit breaker-switches instead of the acres of breakers and separate switches >> Bob: << Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices, expensive and require that you build "the bus" right on the back of a row of switches in addition to other busses along the backs of breakers that are not switches. >> The AIRPAX R11 series of circuit breaker/switches I mentioned in my 9/29/07 post have many advantages over separate circuit breakers and switches. They are hydraulic-magnetically tripped. This gives a more stable trip point than the thermal types we often use. Not only are the same components (without the trip coil) sold as a switch, they are also rated for use in life critical medical equipment. They are mechanically simpler than the breaker in W31_1.jpg. At $11.05 from OnlineComponents.com they are certainly less expensive than a separate switch and circuit breaker. Don't see how it is more onerous to build a bus behind the row of CB/Switches than it is to build a several row bus behind the (usually far away) CB panel and run a dozen or more wires over to the switches. In fact, my IFR capable Sportman has so few pure circuit breakers (5) they all fit in the left hand subpanel, along with the master switch, ignition sw, E-bus crossover sw, etc. This puts all my bus wiring in one local area, the same situation as a CB panel. My aversion to fuse blocks is an even stronger prejudice. As a control freak, I can envision failure modes (pitch trim or fuel transfer overload for example) where I want to deliberately override, if only for a short while, the condition causing the trip. This is impossible with remote access fuse blocks. Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with Bob's diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for preferring an alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and GPS. Tom Kuffel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
The Garmin GTX-320(A - now) is a simple radio - no extra features - looks much like the early analog King and Narco transponders. The 327 has the gee whiz features. I recently purchased a Narco AT165 to replace my aging/ailing AT50A. So far, the performance seems very good. I do kind the individual knobs like the earlier designs had. My Varieze has a Microair T2000 which so far has been trouble free.. Doesn't address the interface coding. Matt- > > > Michel Creek wrote: >> >> >> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for >> overall >> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. >> >> > > Could you define what "overall value" means to you? > > When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the > interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of > these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something > to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is > a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I > don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean, > 'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation > is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous. > > Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for > around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for > something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface. > Uncomplicated. EASY! > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Ernest >> Christley >> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation >> >> >> >> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within >> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another. >> >> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude >> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy >> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that >> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary >> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional >> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, >> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the >> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to >> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down). >> >> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts >> serial input? >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted
> >Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently disagree >because: > >Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >> > >Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point > of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >> >Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with Bob's >diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for preferring an >alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and GPS. > >Tom Kuffel Nobody here should be upset if you act upon your own perceptions in the manner you see fit. I certainly won't. I was asked and I answered. There are many chefs with their own recipes for success . . . some of whom gather a clientele, others who may not. I was only suggesting that alternatives should be gauged against design goals that strive for the desired functionality with the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement, fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of ownership. Without a doubt, there are folks who offer exceedingly robust products with names like Airpax, TI, Cutler-Hammer, etc. But even the mighty Potter-Brumfield came very close to causing an expensive, fleet-wide AD for a simple design deficiency in the switch-breaker I cited. My goal is to craft architectures that require no special consideration for robustnes of components . . . I.e, it shouldn't matter if one buys switches at the hardware store. We've had these discussions on different topics . . . there'a a following of factory fresh Nipon-Denso alternators who have suggested it is not necessary to have absolute control -OR- O.V. protection. Faith in these products just might be justified. I have no personal knowledge or experience to reinforce those notions but I have strong anecdotal information that suggests the faith is unfounded. Nor do I want to recommend that all my readers go out and buy factory fresh, ND, Airpax, TI, or any other brand. My design goals strive to craft a system that is failure-tolerant for components that may not have the robustness of those upper-crust devices that some folks choose to champion and recommend. I fully understand the creative juices that flow when one launches into so grand a dream as crafting one's own airplane. They're called "experimental" and they can and should be viewed in this light. This isn't about people my friend, it's about ideas. It has been suggested that diodes are somehow fragile and switches are perhaps sufficiently robust to offset a diode's shortcomings. I'd be pleased to know the simple ideas that support these assertions. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted
Bob, << alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and GPS. >> << alternatives should be gauged against design goals that strive for the desired functionality with the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement, fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of ownership. >> And fewer components don't address these goals? << My goal is to craft architectures that require no special consideration for robustnes of components >> And the crossover diode doesn't have to be robust compared to regular diodes? << It has been suggested that diodes are somehow fragile and switches are perhaps sufficiently robust to offset a diode's shortcomings. I'd be pleased to know the simple ideas that support these assertions. >> No, I am suggesting no diode at all is more robust than any diode and its attendant wiring. Would agree the single point failure of the suggested change would be unacceptable if it weren't for the internal batteries on the EFIS and GPS. But given the premise, don't see how the change violates the goals of less cost, simpler design, simpler installation, less maintenance and reasonable fault tolerance (if you do have to shut down the main bus your exposure to single point failure is the same with either setup, perhaps less since the rare but additional possibility of a shorted diode doesn't exist when it's omitted). Tom Kuffel ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Oct 29, 2007
Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000 rpm upwards, and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an older battery, letting transient noise into the DC bus? Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142691#142691 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Radio Static Help
Date: Oct 30, 2007
10/30/2007 Hello Scooter, You wrote: "I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions." Try going to the System mode and play around with the squelch adjustments. Please let us know how you finally solve this problem. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help From: "ScooterF15" <jsmcgrew(at)aol.com> Hi, I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer: --------- BIG SKIP ----------------------------------- I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions. Thanks. -Jim N312JE Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
I have an alternator over voltage protection setup with an alternator solenoid which will open when the alternator field circuit breaker pops. I think I've ruled out a regulator problem since the static continues after I pull the alt field c/b; is that a bad assumption? -Jim In a message dated 10/30/2007 2:41:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jetboy" Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000 rpm upwards, and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an older battery, letting transient noise into the DC bus? Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 30, 2007
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
If you just buy the 330 you can plug the Dynon in directly and have TIS too! Forget all the conversion stuff. It even displays the interrogated altitude and provides audible alerts when you slip off your desired altitude. To boot you get an S mode. Yup, it cost a little over 3k, but then you really have a nice unit. If I had the option, I would have two of them. I find transponders are like step children - the most often forgotten part of the panel, but too often the one piece of equipment providing the most grief when working with ATC. N... Please squawk again, N... Please squall again. N... Would you please re-cycle your transponder, Sorry center I think I should re-cycle my transponder blah blah and on and on. Naturally this only happens when you and ATC are very busy. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Creek Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation --> The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor for repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase. For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80 converter previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the 320 does not use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is eliminated. Cavity tubes can be expensive to replace and generate a lot of heat. I looked at purchasing several used KT76A transponders and they were going to run about $900+ plus shipping. There was no telling how long any of these would run before the cavity tube needed replacing. I estimated the cavity tube would cost overall about $300 to replace and I would have to do that at least once in the next five years (probably much sooner), plus I would be getting a piece of equipment with unknown history and potentially other problems (add more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A can be had for about $1,300 so why pay basically the same price for a used piece of electronics with questionable history and reliability concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up and go fly. You will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going forward and that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a very basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167 Check pricing at Stark Avionics: http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the Garmin GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles. This is also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or new market (with cavity tubes). -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation Michel Creek wrote: >> >> >> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall >> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. >> >> >Could you define what "overall value" means to you? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2007
From: "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
I'd check spark plug wires. need ones with considerable inductance (spiral wound) to surpress HV RFI bobf On 10/30/07, JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote: > > I have an alternator over voltage protection setup with an alternator > solenoid which will open when the alternator field circuit breaker pops. I > think I've ruled out a regulator problem since the static continues after I > pull the alt field c/b; is that a bad assumption? > > -Jim > > In a message dated 10/30/2007 2:41:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > > > Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000 > rpm upwards, and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an > older battery, letting transient noise into the DC bus? > > Ralph > > -------- > Ralph - CH701 / 2200a > > > Jim "Scooter" McGrew > http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew > > > ------------------------------ > See what's new at ww.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170<http://ww.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>" > * > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2007
From: "John McMahon" <blackoaks(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
I agree, if you plan on flying much IFR, dual transponders are really nice touch, and for what you pay for the 330 you can have dual 327s. Just a thought if having TIS isn't important to you for your planned operations. On 10/30/07, longg(at)pjm.com wrote: > > > If you just buy the 330 you can plug the Dynon in directly and have TIS > too! Forget all the conversion stuff. It even displays the interrogated > altitude and provides audible alerts when you slip off your desired > altitude. To boot you get an S mode. Yup, it cost a little over 3k, but > then you really have a nice unit. > > If I had the option, I would have two of them. I find transponders are > like step children - the most often forgotten part of the panel, but too > often the one piece of equipment providing the most grief when working > with ATC. > > N... Please squawk again, N... Please squall again. N... Would you > please re-cycle your transponder, Sorry center I think I should re-cycle > my transponder blah blah and on and on. Naturally this only happens when > you and ATC are very busy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michel Creek > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:47 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation > > > --> > > The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor > for repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase. > > For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80 > converter previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the > 320 does not use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is > eliminated. Cavity tubes can be expensive to replace and generate a lot > of heat. I looked at purchasing several used KT76A transponders and > they were going to run about $900+ plus shipping. There was no telling > how long any of these would run before the cavity tube needed replacing. > I estimated the cavity tube would cost overall about $300 to replace and > I would have to do that at least once in the next five years (probably > much sooner), plus I would be getting a piece of equipment with unknown > history and potentially other problems (add more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A > can be had for about $1,300 so why pay basically the same price for a > used piece of electronics with questionable history and reliability > concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up and go fly. You > will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going forward and > that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a very > basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See > https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167 > > Check pricing at Stark Avionics: > http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm > > The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the > Garmin GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles. > This is also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or > new market (with cavity tubes). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ernest Christley > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation > > > > Michel Creek wrote: > >> > >> > >> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for > overall > >> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace. > >> > >> > > >Could you define what "overall value" means to you? > > -- John McMahon Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Jenks <jessejenks(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 10/29/07
Date: Oct 30, 2007
When using the encoder feature of an EFIS system like Dynon, How difficult /practical is it to get the required 24 month transponder check from a cert ified shop? Do they know how to deal with these experimental systems? Thanks Jesse _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc t ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio Static Help
Date: Oct 30, 2007
From: "Miskelly, Francis G" <f.miskelly(at)imperial.ac.uk>
I had an exactly identical problem with a KX155. There was a thread on it several months ago Eventually found it was the intercom picking up ignition noise. To diagnose it i had to remove the intercom pin from the back of the radio. Most, but not all, of the noise disappeared. Just working on one headset without removing the intercom pin-out still gave the problem. Solved it by installing an external intercom. - Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Matt Prather Sent: Mon 29/10/2007 22:09 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight? Regards, Matt- > > Hi, > > I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer: > > I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached > to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not > obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have a > hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip! > VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when > used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition. > > I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any > suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a > list of some things I have tried with no luck. > > > General > -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both > at the same time) > --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics > > Antenna/Coaxial cable > -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax. -Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried > various routings to antennas) > -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static) > --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related > > Power/ground > -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends -Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a > filter > -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference from other wires > -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery > -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still > has static > -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray > -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground. -Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires > > > I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions. > > Thanks. > > -Jim > N312JE > > Jim "Scooter" McGrew > http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: Wig Wag and keep warm
Date: Oct 30, 2007
Bob, When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs, can I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so would this just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some light gauge wire (say 22 awg)? If not, can you suggest a better alternative? Thanks Bevan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wig Wag and keep warm
> > >Bob, > >When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs, can >I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so would this >just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some light gauge wire >(say 22 awg)? > >If not, can you suggest a better alternative? > >Thanks Keepwarm is not necessary/useful for halogen lamps. They take so long to cool down that after the first turn-on, the inrush for successive flashes of the wigwag is insignificantly higher than normal operating current. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net>
Subject: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Date: Oct 31, 2007
New Dual Screen BMA EFIS/One Version 3 for Sale!!! Upgrade to an Electronic Cockpit. Everything you could want in a single package EFIS. True A/S, True Course, Built in GPS, Ground Speed, Solid State Internal Platform, Moving Map Display with Terrain Elevation. Includes user programmable full engine monitoring, fuel flow, individual CHT's, EGT's and more. Reduce cockpit clutter. Accepts outside nav inputs, such as the Garmin SL-30. A $16,000+ Value for Thousands Less! Asking $10,900. Giff Marr 817-223-9671 (Cell) 817-306-9592 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Subject: Wig Wag and keep warm
Date: Oct 31, 2007
Bob, OK, very good to know and easy to implement. Thank you very much. Bevan RV7A wiring -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:02 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig Wag and keep warm --> >--> > > >Bob, > >When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs, >can I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so >would this just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some >light gauge wire (say 22 awg)? > >If not, can you suggest a better alternative? > >Thanks Keepwarm is not necessary/useful for halogen lamps. They take so long to cool down that after the first turn-on, the inrush for successive flashes of the wigwag is insignificantly higher than normal operating current. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Date: Oct 31, 2007
I am using the BMA EFIS One Gen 3. If you have specific questions drop me an email. ERic-- RV-10 N104EP ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: For Sale BMA EFIS One Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:18:19 -0500 New Dual Screen BMA EFIS/One Version 3 for Sale!!! Upgrade to an Electronic Cockpit. Everything you could want in a single package EFIS. True A/S, True Course, Built in GPS, Ground Speed, Solid State Internal Platform, Moving Map Display with Terrain Elevation. Includes user programmable full engine monitoring, fuel flow, individual CHT's, EGT's and more. Reduce cockpit clutter. Accepts outside nav inputs, such as the Garmin SL-30. A $16,000+ Value for Thousands Less! Asking $10,900. Giff Marr 817-223-9671 (Cell) 817-306-9592 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Merlin" <phil.merlin(at)skynet.be>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 31, 2007
For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting... Philippe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald J Smith" <donaldjsmith(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Radio Static Help
Date: Oct 31, 2007
Have you consider the HT leads to the plugs - say breakdown of insulation/suppression. Use to get this sort of fault in the old days on cars. Might be temp. related. Suggest replacing all HT side of ignition system. Donald ----- Original Message ----- From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:18 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help Frank, I've only been flying for a year. It seems like the problem has grown worse in the last 6 months. I just did an annual an changed out all my plugs (auto on top / aviation on bottom). Thanks. Jim In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:10:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes: (Corvallis)" Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running? Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it goes away. If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a piece...then turn off your mag in flight. frank Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new at AOL.com and http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List --> http://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald J Smith" <donaldjsmith(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 31, 2007
3D----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: transponder recommendation
Date: Oct 31, 2007
3D----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
Merlin wrote: > For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from > http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting... > > Philippe Interesting. But is there anyplace you can see the price of one? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Cann" <tonycann(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Wig Wag and keep warm
Date: Oct 31, 2007
Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct circuit? Thanks Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
Subject: Re: transponder recommendation
Date: Nov 01, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation > > > Merlin wrote: >> For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from >> http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting... >> Philippe > Interesting. But is there anyplace you can see the price of one? On the bottom of the actual product announcement page: "The TT31 is available from dealers across Europe now. Typical selling price is around 1,750 (?2650) plus VAT." The Filser TRT800 is about ?1850 including VAT. The Becker BXP6401 can be ordered online for about ?2650 including VAT. Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month!
Dear Listers, You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example: The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising! But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and every time you read an email message or browse the their web site. Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment, I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be possible! During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few days and I ask for your patience and understanding during the month throughout these regular messages. Think of them as PBS' Pledge Breaks... :-) To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser! There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however, once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund Raiser for the rest of the month. For Contributions by check, the squelch will take effect once the check is received. There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including: Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to offer and are generously supporting the Matronics List Fund Raiser. You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. From the Contribution site, you can select any one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount. The Contribution page is pretty loooonnnnng this year in order to list great selection of great gifts available so be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom of the web page to see everything that's available! Please make a List Support Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions truely keep this operation afloat! Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wig Wag and keep warm
>Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety >aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct circuit? > > >Thanks > >Tony Temperature cycling by flashing any incandescent lamp shortens service life . . . but then, using a drill bit to drill holes also dulls the cutting edges; drilling steel as opposed to wood makes for fewer nice holes. The halogen lamps are MUCH more robust than their ancestors, hence a lot more tolerant of vibration and operating cycles. I think it likely that most owner/operators of halogen fitted aircraft will operate the same bulbs for the lifetime of the airplane. If using the Wig-Wag system by any supplier is a demonstrable reduction of in-flight risks, then I'll suggest concerns for service life become insignificant. Any Wig-Wag system including the SSF-1 flasher from B&C is worthy of consideration. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One
From: "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
Date: Nov 01, 2007
A new Gen $ EFIS 2 (slightly smaller version of the EFIS 1) can be had for $9000 You may wish to lower your price a bit. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143186#143186 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wig Wag and keep warm
Tony Cann wrote: > > Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety > aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct > circuit? > > > > Thanks > > Tony > Actually, there can be, depending on how it's done. The halogen works by getting a tungsten filament to glow. Part of the filament turns to a gas within the bulb, and will settle on the inside of the glass when the bulb is powered off. The next time the bulb is turned on, the filament gets hot enough to burn the layer of deposit off the glass (turning it back into a gas). If you continuously turn it on without letting it warm to operating temperature, the deposit layer gets thicker and thicker. The bulb will get darker and darker, and the fix is simply to let the bulb come up to operating temps. The burn off process can take a while if the bulb has been abused in this way. OTOH, there's not point in doing this to a halogen bulb. The filament in a normal bulb is a very fine wire, that breaks easily and vibrates like mad. The filament in a halogen is a chunk of tungsten. You're more likely to break the glass bulb than the filament. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net>
Subject: Wig Wag and keep warm
Date: Nov 01, 2007
I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my lamps to come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the internal electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I doubled the value of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the inrush current limiters (ntc thermistors) that I have in series with the lighting circuits. Vern Little ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Wig Wag and keep warm
> > >I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my lamps to >come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the internal >electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I doubled the value >of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the inrush current limiters >(ntc thermistors) that I have in series with the lighting circuits. Good data point Vern. I'd heard that before but without specifics as to what the builder did about it. I think he pitched the SSF-1 flasher and substituted something else. I don't think inrush limiters would affect timing on this device . . . but it's certain that the inrush limiters have more to do with mitigating initial turn-on glitches to the bus than for extending bulb life. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
>I know this is an odd request, however, I am a high school electronics >teacher by day and a plane builder by night :>) I thought this might be >a good place to ask if any of you electronics tinkerers might >have crystal radio sets jammed into the back of a closet that you would >like to get rid of. I am trying to round up about 50 of them or the >components. The difficult part to find in quantity is the variable air >capacitors (365pfd or close). My e-mail is >dan at azshowersolutions dot com >Thanks, >I live in Mesa, AZ >Dan Dan, I'm working on a basic electronics course that will start with some hands-on activities that not only explore the simple-ideas of physics but the practical hands-on ideas for fabrication. I've discovered a company at http://tubesandmore.com/ who offers some interesting products: The B-851 book entitled "The Voice of the Crystal" by Friedrichs. It offers ways to make things work without going to the electronics parts store. The other item of interest is a surplus C-VW4450 6-gang air variable designed for specific application in an AM/FM radio. The TOTAL capacitance of sections combined is about 430 pF. Single unit price is $2.95 but they say they have a LOT of them. I've ordered 10 pcs and will let you know how they look. You might be able to negotiate a better price for quantities. Best yet, it has a geared down drive shaft built in. REALLY good value for the performance. The smaller sections might figure in a crystal set or one-tube design for short wave. Also, take a peek at C-VT250 compression trimmer that goes up to 250 pF. This is small and would cover a major portion of the BC band. One could include a switch that kicks in an extra 100pf for the bottom end. Finally, take a peek at item 330181321066 on Ebay. I have one of these and the workmanship is superb. I'm going to use it in a classroom demo for both crystal sets and a one-tube radio. It wouldn't surprise me if the book cited above doesn't talk about spider-web coil winding. You can find Litz wire on ebay and other sources. You could build a form for duplicating the craftsmanship offered by the ebay guy. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: Wig Wag and keep warm
My 35 watt halogens are still happily wagging at 140 hours which is one cent per hour bulb cost even if they both quit on the next flight. I haven't checked them for tungsten deposit darkening recently but I do know a very particular person who replaces automotive halogen headlights every year or two because of darkening. I've never found it to be much of an issue, even on a car that uses a resistor to reduce the current in the daytime, but measurements might tell a better story. FWIW my opinion is that thermistor inrush current limiters reduce maximum brightness enough that I avoid them with halogens since these bulbs have much extended lives anyway compared to the old 320 hour automotive sealed beams. I won't purchase extended life household incandescents either (except for locations with difficult access) as they increase the total cost per lumen significantly due to less efficiency. Ken Ernest Christley wrote: > > > Tony Cann wrote: > >> >> Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety >> aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the >> correct circuit? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Tony >> > Actually, there can be, depending on how it's done. > > The halogen works by getting a tungsten filament to glow. Part of the > filament turns to a gas within the bulb, and will settle on the inside > of the glass when the bulb is powered off. The next time the bulb is > turned on, the filament gets hot enough to burn the layer of deposit > off the glass (turning it back into a gas). If you continuously turn > it on without letting it warm to operating temperature, the deposit > layer gets thicker and thicker. The bulb will get darker and darker, > and the fix is simply to let the bulb come up to operating temps. The > burn off process can take a while if the bulb has been abused in this > way. > > OTOH, there's not point in doing this to a halogen bulb. The filament > in a normal bulb is a very fine wire, that breaks easily and vibrates > like mad. The filament in a halogen is a chunk of tungsten. You're > more likely to break the glass bulb than the filament. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as it looks like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently finishing up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson here on the list they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole box of various sizes. We were out today on the football field and found 4 radios that worked...quite faint...but it was enough to get them worked up. We are going to build a one or two transistor amp to add to them. That will get them into making a PCB. Thanks again, Dan Billingsley Building a Kitfox-IV http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: >I know this is an odd request, however, I am a high school electronics >teacher by day and a plane builder by night :>) I thought this might be >a good place to ask if any of you electronics tinkerers might >have crystal radio sets jammed into the back of a closet that you would >like to get rid of. I am trying to round up about 50 of them or the >components. The difficult part to find in quantity is the variable air >capacitors (365pfd or close). My e-mail is >dan at azshowersolutions dot com >Thanks, >I live in Mesa, AZ >Dan Dan, I'm working on a basic electronics course that will start with some hands-on activities that not only explore the simple-ideas of physics but the practical hands-on ideas for fabrication. I've discovered a company at http://tubesandmore.com/ who offers some interesting products: The B-851 book entitled "The Voice of the Crystal" by Friedrichs. It offers ways to make things work without going to the electronics parts store. The other item of interest is a surplus C-VW4450 6-gang air variable designed for specific application in an AM/FM radio. The TOTAL capacitance of sections combined is about 430 pF. Single unit price is $2.95 but they say they have a LOT of them. I've ordered 10 pcs and will let you know how they look. You might be able to negotiate a better price for quantities. Best yet, it has a geared down drive shaft built in. REALLY good value for the performance. The smaller sections might figure in a crystal set or one-tube design for short wave. Also, take a peek at C-VT250 compression trimmer that goes up to 250 pF. This is small and would cover a major portion of the BC band. One could include a switch that kicks in an extra 100pf for the bottom end. Finally, take a peek at item 330181321066 on Ebay. I have one of these and the workmanship is superb. I'm going to use it in a classroom demo for both crystal sets and a one-tube radio. It wouldn't surprise me if the book cited above doesn't talk about spider-web coil winding. You can find Litz wire on ebay and other sources. You could build a form for duplicating the craftsmanship offered by the ebay guy. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
>Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as >it looks like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently >finishing up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson >here on the list they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole >box of various sizes. We were out today on the football field and found 4 >radios that worked...quite faint...but it was enough to get them worked >up. We are going to build a one or two transistor amp to add to them. That >will get them into making a PCB. Thanks again, Dan Billingsley >Building a Kitfox-IV ><http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html>http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html I've ordered one too. I've been 'building' since the 4th grade when I listened to Ike's election returns on the first crystal set I built from a kit. I've nearly always lived near Wichita's 5KW AM station . . . easy to get strong signals, hard to get anyone else. I've inherited a house from my father in Medicine Lodge, KS . . . lots of miles from any AM BC station. I've become interested in seeing what can be heard from afar with a reasonable antenna system and high Q tuning. I purchased some 6418 vacuum tubes . . . See: http://www.schmarder.com/radios/tube/6418.htm I'm in the process of packaging the 6418 circuitry into one of my standard product packages. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/A15_Package.jpg Everything but batteries, regen pot, tuning caps and inductors will be in this package. The BIG variability in performance is configuration of tuning sections/antenna. I thought it would be useful to have the constants packaged in a robust module that allows fast, low-risk assembly of the variables. If you'd like one of these modules to play with, I'll send you one when they're done. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 496 Audio
Date: Nov 01, 2007
Marty and all, We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be helpftul. I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the power/data chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio panel. Seemed like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the power/data chord. Audio jack, yes, data chord, no. Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm speaker. I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and reading the back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W. The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input. Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio coming out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have a 1/8" audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as "Voice +" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not even to bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation mode. It did not exist. Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. The speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect. With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to the power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is nice, because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio jack into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the background... Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8 ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if that will work? How do I wire it? Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2007
From: "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: 496 Audio
I'd try one half the transformer. use the center tap for ground and one of the other ones. that would be 500 ohms. - pretty dang close bobf On 11/2/07, Dave Saylor wrote: > > Marty and all, > > We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be > helpftul. > > I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the > power/data chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio > panel. Seemed like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the > power/data chord. Audio jack, yes, data chord, no. > > Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm > speaker. I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and > reading the back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W. > > The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input. > > Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio > coming out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have > a 1/8" audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as > "Voice +" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not > even to bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation > mode. It did not exist. > > Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V > adapter plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. > The speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of > the Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect. > > With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to > the power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is > nice, because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio > jack into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get > muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about > those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the > background... > > Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the > power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8 > ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if > that will work? How do I wire it? > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA > 831-722-9141 > 831-750-0284 CL > www.AirCraftersLLC.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2007
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
Robert, Sounds like you were hooked at quite a young age. Something about the radio sets that is still magic to me...easy to get the high school kids fired up. The site for Dave's Radios looks good. Have you built one of them using the 6418 tube? I would certainly like to try out your module when they are finished. Thanks again, Dan 11434 E Portal Ave Mesa, AZ 85212 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: >Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as >it looks like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently >finishing up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson >here on the list they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole >box of various sizes. We were out today on the football field and found 4 >radios that worked...quite faint...but it was enough to get them worked >up. We are going to build a one or two transistor amp to add to them. That >will get them into making a PCB. Thanks again, Dan Billingsley >Building a Kitfox-IV >http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html I've ordered one too. I've been 'building' since the 4th grade when I listened to Ike's election returns on the first crystal set I built from a kit. I've nearly always lived near Wichita's 5KW AM station . . . easy to get strong signals, hard to get anyone else. I've inherited a house from my father in Medicine Lodge, KS . . . lots of miles from any AM BC station. I've become interested in seeing what can be heard from afar with a reasonable antenna system and high Q tuning. I purchased some 6418 vacuum tubes . . . See: http://www.schmarder.com/radios/tube/6418.htm I'm in the process of packaging the 6418 circuitry into one of my standard product packages. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/A15_Package.jpg Everything but batteries, regen pot, tuning caps and inductors will be in this package. The BIG variability in performance is configuration of tuning sections/antenna. I thought it would be useful to have the constants packaged in a robust module that allows fast, low-risk assembly of the variables. If you'd like one of these modules to play with, I'll send you one when they're done. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One
From: "Roger Bentlage" <bentlage(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 02, 2007
I am selling a new (installed and works fine but never flown) BMA EFIS One, no engine sensors, for $5,500. Roger 242-535-7121 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143355#143355 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/instrument_panel_2_1_664.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: emrath(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re 496 Audio
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Dave, thanks for your interest in this, I hope there is a solution. Like you, the thought of the warnings being muted by virtue of using the music jack to audio input on the GMA340 is not to my liking either. Marty From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio Marty and all, We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be helpftul. I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the power/data chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio panel. Seemed like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the power/data chord. Audio jack, yes, data chord, no. Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm speaker. I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and reading the back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W. The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input. Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio coming out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have a 1/8" audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as "Voice +" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not even to bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation mode. It did not exist. Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. The speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect. With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to the power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is nice, because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio jack into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the background... Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8 ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if that will work? How do I wire it? Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Dave, thanks for your interest in this, I hope there is a solution.  Like you, the thought of the warnings being muted by virtue of using the music jack to audio input on the GMA340 is not to my liking either.
Marty
 
0 ohm input.

Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio coming
out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have a 1/8"
audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as "Voice
+" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable).  Garmin said not even to
bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation mode.  It
did not exist.

Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter
plugged in.  I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain.  The
speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the
Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect.

With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to the
power/data chord but all the warnings still come through.  Which is nice,
because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio jack
into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get
muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions.  I want to know about
those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the
background...

Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the
power/data chord to 600 ohms.  I guess I need a transformer.  I found a 8
ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if
that will work?  How do I wire it?

Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com

 

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Your absolutely right, however this new BMA EFIS/One Ver 3 has the second screen, which is a $3000 option for a new the EFIS/0ne Gen 4 and $2600 for the smaller EFIS 2. Still a good savings over the current versions. Make me an offer. Giffen Marr 817-306-9592 617-223-9671 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net>
Subject: Wig Wag and keep warm
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Thanks Bob. I put the inrush limiters in circuit as a switch saver as opposed to a lamp saver. I've had two Carling switch failures in the first 100 hours-- one Master Switch and the other in my Strobe circuit. The Master had loose rivets that hold the fast-on tabs, while the Strobe switch (which also had a loose rivet) overheated and cooked one terminal. Switch resistance had increased significantly, and I believe the Strobe PSU draws more current at lower voltages, leading to a thermal runaway in the switch. Since then, I've inspected all of my switches for loose rivets and put the inrush current limiters on the landing/taxi lights. I did return one of the switches to the vendor but never heard back with a failure analysis. The inrush limiters don't have much effect on maximum lamp brightness, but slowing the wig-wag flasher down sure did. Vern -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: November 1, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig Wag and keep warm --> > > >I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my >lamps to come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the >internal electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I >doubled the value of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the >inrush current limiters (ntc thermistors) that I have in series with >the lighting circuits. Good data point Vern. I'd heard that before but without specifics as to what the builder did about it. I think he pitched the SSF-1 flasher and substituted something else. I don't think inrush limiters would affect timing on this device . . . but it's certain that the inrush limiters have more to do with mitigating initial turn-on glitches to the bus than for extending bulb life. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 02, 2007
You guys...Darned I've spent half a day Googling Xtal sets. A MUST SEE: http://www.wynterarchtops.com/radios/index.htm I hate to see anyone build a crystal set and cheap-out by buying the variable capacitor. There's no magic in capacitors. A roll of foil and some scissors will make one in a pinch. There is a long history of capacitors in strange forms. And if it doesn't have a cat's whisker and a galena crystal....shame on you. One of my pet projects (after I finish the Glastar....) is to build crytal sets along the lines of a Captain Nemo fantasy. It is entirely possible to build a an AM radio receiver using nothing you couldn't buy in AD 1200. "Inventor: A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs, and believes it civilization." --Ambrose Bierce -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143432#143432 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Final Review
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Bob, and all, I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully asking all the right questions. I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign. DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage sags and surges. Here is my question. After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path. So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together? The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be minimal. Thanks, Terry Miles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Subject: Re: Final Review
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Going from 12V to 14V absolutely won't hurt the avionics. It also doesn't sound to me like the operation should cause any significant inductive kick which would lead to a high power voltage excursion. Consider that with the bus loaded (at least on some systems), if the engine is brought to idle RPM, the bus voltage may sag significantly below 14V. Increasing the RPM or reducing the bus load will increase the voltage back to the regulator setup. DO160 (the standard to which Avionics manufacturers should design their products) allows for much larger swings than this.. Regards, Matt- > Bob, and all, > > I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am > going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and > hopefully > asking all the right questions. > > I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The > electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this > list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a > single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign. > > DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the > Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot > controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate > schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors > closed > for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. > I > have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries > after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak > Digi > II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage > sags and surges. > > Here is my question. > > After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the > alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp > current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two > way > solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus > terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 > volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path. > > So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are > already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system > together? > The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to > be > minimal. > > Thanks, > Terry Miles > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net>
Subject: 496 Audio
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Very useful information! I am currently wiring the 496 audio/warning output into the "music" jack of the PS4000 audio-panel. Does one tie the "voice+" and "warning" wires together into the "tip" terminal, and the "voice -" to the other? Thanks, Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2007
From: "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: Final Review
Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down? Leave it all off til stable then turn on the avionics master. If you are worrying about unstable voltage with an air restart, you have bigger problems than whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about 10 secs in a Cozy) bobf On 11/2/07, Terry Miles wrote: > > Bob, and all, > > > I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully asking all the right questions. > > > I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign. > > > DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage sags and surges. > > > Here is my question. > > > After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path. > > > So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together? The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be minimal. > > > Thanks, > > Terry Miles > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2007
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Final Review
Robert Feldtman a crit : > Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the > engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down? Robert, Some installation have an EFIS to monitor engine or system parameters : voltage, RPM, oil pressure, temperatures, etc... I would be reluctant to wait for the *voltage* to be stable before having any indication of revolutions or oil pressure at engine start. Switching everything down for starting or shutting the engine is an old habit from sooo long ago. > whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about > 10 secs in a Cozy) > I've just spent two days flying an airplane with a moving map GPS. This poorly engineered device kept resetting any time the voltage was sagging, when maneuvering the flaps on the ground, for instance. A real nuisance. BTW, 10 seconds seems a bit long in flight. On the other hand the little Dynon, or the Enigma are rock stable whatever the usual voltage variation.... Correctly designed aviation electronic devices are impervious to ordinary voltage fluctuations. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2007
From: Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: Re: WTB Crystal Radio
Eric, Tom has some interesting stuff going on with his projects. Dan "Eric M. Jones" wrote: You guys...Darned I've spent half a day Googling Xtal sets. A MUST SEE: http://www.wynterarchtops.com/radios/index.htm I hate to see anyone build a crystal set and cheap-out by buying the variable capacitor. There's no magic in capacitors. A roll of foil and some scissors will make one in a pinch. There is a long history of capacitors in strange forms. And if it doesn't have a cat's whisker and a galena crystal....shame on you. One of my pet projects (after I finish the Glastar....) is to build crytal sets along the lines of a Captain Nemo fantasy. It is entirely possible to build a an AM radio receiver using nothing you couldn't buy in AD 1200. "Inventor: A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs, and believes it civilization." --Ambrose Bierce -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143432#143432 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Final Review
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Gilles, Can you tell us the make and model of the flakey EFIS, and a little more about the circumstances? Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Final Review I've just spent two days flying an airplane with a moving map GPS. This poorly engineered device kept resetting any time the voltage was sagging, when maneuvering the flaps on the ground, for instance. A real nuisance. BTW, 10 seconds seems a bit long in flight. On the other hand the little Dynon, or the Enigma are rock stable whatever the usual voltage variation.... Correctly designed aviation electronic devices are impervious to ordinary voltage fluctuations. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Final Review
Date: Nov 02, 2007
Matt: Thanks for the input. I appreciate that. Bob: I have separate electrical power sources and bus isolation capability. I deliberately designed a system so I could possibly do GPS flight planning activity prior to engine start and not need to shut it all off just for engine starter loads.or monitoring ATC with gate holds. I didn't follow your comment on airstarts. In that event, with any prop rotation at all you don't need to engage the starter. Terry _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Final Review Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down? Leave it all off til stable then turn on the avionics master. If you are worrying about unstable voltage with an air restart, you have bigger problems than whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about 10 secs in a Cozy) bobf On 11/2/07, Terry Miles wrote: Bob, and all, I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully asking all the right questions. I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign. DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage sags and surges. Here is my question. After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path. So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together? The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be minimal. Thanks, Terry Miles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2007
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Greetings Aeroelectric list. After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200 Murphysboro, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 03, 2007
Sam, The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in several planes I know of: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at 12 lbs. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Greetings Aeroelectric list. After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200 Murphysboro, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2007
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
I forgot to mention - I do have high (9:1) compression pistons. SRH On 11/3/07, Sam Hoskins wrote: > > Greetings Aeroelectric list. > > After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install > a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. > > The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for > the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It > usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a > starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Quickie Q-200 > Murphysboro, IL > > * > > > * > > -- Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david stroud" <dstroud(at)storm.ca>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 03, 2007
I start my Lyc 0-235C winter and summer with an $18 lawn garden tractor battery. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Hoskins To: Aerolectric List Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Greetings Aeroelectric list. After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200 Murphysboro, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/3/07 11:22 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marvin Dorris Jr <medorrisjr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 03, 2007
Forgot?? Marvin Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:34:52 -0500From: shoskins(at)mchsi.comTo: aeroelectri c-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for t he B&C BC320 starter?I forgot to mention - I do have high (9:1) compression pistons.SRH On 11/3/07, Sam Hoskins wrote: Greetings Aeroelectric list.After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the start er and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't t hink that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks.Sam HoskinsQuickie Q-200Murphysboro, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/618-967-0016 ph.312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. I've got a bunch of really nice incentive gifts this year. There's really something for everyone! Please make a Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 04, 2007
Hello, I'm currently building a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912S. I'm using the Z-16 revision M schematic as a guide for designing my electrical system. I'm afraid I'm struggling a bit on understanding this diagram and have a few questions. 1. The schematic shows the start switch connected to a starter contactor which I assume would be B&C part S702-1. I'm using an ACS A-510-2 ignition switch. Can this start switch be directly connected to the starter relay supplied by Rotax, or will I need to purchase S702-1 and run it in series with the supplied starter relay? Do I need to worry about excessive wear on the start switch contacts if I directly connect the start switch to the Rotax starter relay? 2. I'm trying to understand the overvoltage protection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the sequence if the voltage regulator fails: A. Crowbar Overvoltage Module senses the overvoltage condition. Creates a 'short' from alternator master switch to ground. B. Alt breaker responds to the short by tripping, thus de-energizing alternator OV disconnect relay. C. Alternator OV relay opens circuit from alternator (yellow AC wires), thus removing the alternator from the system. 3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O. terminology. I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered 'normally closed', but according to the diagram that would open the circuit and take the alternator off line. I don't mean to get too wrapped up on the terminology, but I want to make sure I understand what I'm doing here. Thanks in advance for any advice. Best Regards, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143737#143737 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Final Review
Terry Watson a crit : > Can you tell us the make and model of the flakey EFIS, and a little more > about the circumstances? > Terry, The instrument is some sort of Becker moving map about 6-7 years old. Considering the behaviour, I did not try to determine the exact denomination ;-) Anytime the voltage sags, the unit reboots : for instance on the ground with the engine idling, one must not move the electric wing flaps lest the GPS reboot... Also, the display is not really sunlight readable : we had to use a map as a shade to accurately read the map. The associated Dynon is not much better in this respect, BTW. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
txpilot a crit : Dan, I wired two airplanes using Fig Z16 with no problem. > 1. Can this start switch be directly connected to the starter relay supplied by Rotax, You can use the Rotax starter relay. Make sure to add a diode or else across the coil. > 3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O. terminology. I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered 'normally closed' > Most relays have 'normally open' and 'normally closed' contacts. That tells us which contacts are closed or open when *de-energized*. You chose which set of contact you want to use. You may wish to look at the relay documentation to identify which contacts are which, otherwise you can use a multimeter. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
I found this article about Odyssey batteries, as used in boats. There is a lot of background on WHY the Odyssey is better. http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/odyssey-batteries.html Sam On 11/3/07, Michel Creek wrote: > > Sam, > > > The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in > several planes I know of: > > > http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm > > > You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 > at 12 lbs. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM > *To:* Aerolectric List > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? > > > Greetings Aeroelectric list. > > After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install > a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. > > The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for > the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It > usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a > starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Quickie Q-200 > Murphysboro, IL > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * > > > * > > -- Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 04, 2007
Thanks for the article, Sam. I hadn't seen that article before; it is consistent with other reviews I've read before (don't remember where). Mike C. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 5:02 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? I found this article about Odyssey batteries, as used in boats. There is a lot of background on WHY the Odyssey is better. http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/odyssey-batteries.html Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
Date: Nov 04, 2007
Dan; "Normal" with respect to switch or relay contacts means just that, "normal", "most of the time", "as sitting on the shelf" , etc. The opposite of "normal" is the activated or energised state where power is applied to the relay coil, the switch is activated, etc and the contacts transfer to the opposite position. Bob McC ----- Original Message ----- From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:31 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Questions on Z-16 Diagram > > Hello, > I'm currently building a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912S. I'm using the Z-16 revision M schematic as a guide for designing my electrical system. I'm afraid I'm struggling a bit on understanding this diagram and have a few questions. > > 1. The schematic shows the start switch connected to a starter contactor which I assume would be B&C part S702-1. I'm using an ACS A-510-2 ignition switch. Can this start switch be directly connected to the starter relay supplied by Rotax, or will I need to purchase S702-1 and run it in series with the supplied starter relay? Do I need to worry about excessive wear on the start switch contacts if I directly connect the start switch to the Rotax starter relay? > > 2. I'm trying to understand the overvoltage protection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the sequence if the voltage regulator fails: > > A. Crowbar Overvoltage Module senses the overvoltage condition. Creates a 'short' from alternator master switch to ground. > > B. Alt breaker responds to the short by tripping, thus de-energizing alternator OV disconnect relay. > > C. Alternator OV relay opens circuit from alternator (yellow AC wires), thus removing the alternator from the system. > > 3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O. terminology. I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered 'normally closed', but according to the diagram that would open the circuit and take the alternator off line. I don't mean to get too wrapped up on the terminology, but I want to make sure I understand what I'm doing here. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > > Best Regards, > > Dan Ginty > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143737#143737 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 05, 2007
Sam, The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb. The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation. Peter H _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Creek Sent: Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Sam, The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in several planes I know of: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at 12 lbs. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Greetings Aeroelectric list. After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200 Murphysboro, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy and run some numbers. Sam On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote: > > Sam, > > The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is > a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the > endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan > away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection > includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are > designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is > better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an > HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb. > > The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good > endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation. > > Peter H > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek > *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 > starter? > > > Sam, > > > The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in > several planes I know of: > > > http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm > > > You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 > at 12 lbs. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM > *To:* Aerolectric List > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? > > > Greetings Aeroelectric list. > > After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install > a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. > > The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for > the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It > usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a > starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Quickie Q-200 > Murphysboro, IL > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * > > > * > > -- Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Date: Nov 05, 2007
Sam, Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files". Peter H. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy and run some numbers. Sam On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote: Sam, The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb. The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation. Peter H _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Creek Sent: Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Sam, The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in several planes I know of: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at 12 lbs. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? Greetings Aeroelectric list. After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. Thanks. Sam Hoskins Quickie Q-200 Murphysboro, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
I know. My copy of the AeroElectronic connection is out at the hangar. On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote: > > Sam, > > Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper > consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files". > > Peter H. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 > starter? > > > Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one > alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original > endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy > and run some numbers. > > Sam > > On 11/4/07, *Peter Harris* wrote: > > Sam, > > The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is > a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the > endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan > away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection > includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are > designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is > better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an > HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb. > > The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good > endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation. > > Peter H > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek > *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 > starter? > > > Sam, > > > The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in > several planes I know of: > > > http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm > > > You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 > at 12 lbs. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM > *To:* Aerolectric List > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? > > > Greetings Aeroelectric list. > > After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install > a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. > > The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for > the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It > usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a > starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Quickie Q-200 > Murphysboro, IL > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > * * > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > * * > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * > www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ > > 618-967-0016 ph. > > 312-212-4086 fax* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * > > > * > > -- Sam Hoskins www.MistakeProofing.Net www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ 618-967-0016 ph. 312-212-4086 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: "Walter Fellows" <walter.fellows(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be to good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior? On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote: > > Sam, > > Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper > consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files". > > Peter H. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 > starter? > > > Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one > alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original > endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy > and run some numbers. > > Sam > > On 11/4/07, *Peter Harris* wrote: > > Sam, > > The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is > a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the > endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan > away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection > includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are > designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is > better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an > HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb. > > The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good > endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation. > > Peter H > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek > *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 > starter? > > > Sam, > > > The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in > several planes I know of: > > > http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm > > > You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 > at 12 lbs. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins > *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM > *To:* Aerolectric List > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? > > > Greetings Aeroelectric list. > > After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install > a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system. > > The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for > the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It > usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a > starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft. > > Thanks. > > Sam Hoskins > Quickie Q-200 > Murphysboro, IL > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > * * > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > * * > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * > www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/ > > 618-967-0016 ph. > > 312-212-4086 fax* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
The TYPE is superior but there are other equivalent units to the Odysey IMO such as the Dekka series by East Penn Mfg. Even the 15AH one in my $30. Chinese automobile booster has survived much more abuse than I expected. I've even run a 1 kw inverter off it for power at the airport. Ken Walter Fellows wrote: > Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be > to good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net>
Subject: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Date: Nov 04, 2007
I give you $5.00 for it! I=92ll smash it on video and send you a free copy. This is a good deal. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Giffen Marr Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: For Sale BMA EFIS One Your absolutely right, however this new BMA EFIS/One Ver 3 has the second screen, which is a $3000 option for a new the EFIS/0ne Gen 4 and $2600 for the smaller EFIS 2. Still a good savings over the current versions. Make me an offer. Giffen Marr 817-306-9592 617-223-9671 Cell "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/2/2007 11:10 AM 10/2/2007 11:10 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 496 Audio
Date: Nov 04, 2007
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the PS audio panel. I do know in the past they have been far more willing to help make weird things work than Garmin seems to be. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Melvin Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio --> Very useful information! I am currently wiring the 496 audio/warning output into the "music" jack of the PS4000 audio-panel. Does one tie the "voice+" and "warning" wires together into the "tip" terminal, and the "voice -" to the other? Thanks, Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
> >The TYPE is superior but there are other equivalent units to the Odysey >IMO such as the Dekka series by East Penn Mfg. >Even the 15AH one in my $30. Chinese automobile booster has survived much >more abuse than I expected. I've even run a 1 kw inverter off it for power >at the airport. >Ken > >Walter Fellows wrote: > >>Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be to >>good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior? All comments and observations concerning the relative "goodness" of batteries are, no doubt, offered in good faith and honorable intent. I am reminded of the words of a learned gentleman named Lord Kelvin who is reported to have said: "Until you can measure something and express it in numbers, you have only the beginning of understanding." This is a simple-idea . . . a truth that stands up to skeptical scrutiny. Of course, the same gentleman was heard to opine: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." and "Radio has no future." Individuals of poor reasoning skills and/or ulterior motive have used the later quotations to cast doubt on the validity of the first. Here is a simple lesson in separation of repeatable experiment from un-quantified observation/ opinion where the later is unsupportable by the former. This lesson also goes to the notion that the words of no individual should be accepted as gospel until and unless the listener benefits from real teaching where words are accompanied with tools for understanding. Batteries have recipes for success that are affected by simple-ideas (physics), design (engineering), craftsmanship (willingness and skill to fully exploit both physics and engineering) and to a certain extent, marketplace actions designed to minimize deleterious effects on performance after the product leaves the factory. As consumers of products like batteries with wildly varying prices, claims, and anecdotal observations, we can only be sure of data derived from repeatable experiment scrutinized for flaws of measurement or logic by which those measurements are interpreted. This is a rigorous exercise that few individuals in both the supplier and consumer side of the market are able or willing to conduct . . . which leaves us with tiny corks of data floating on a sea of anecdotes and the self- serving enthusiasm of those who would hope to exchange your $time$ for their product. Bottom line is that any of us can contribute to the wealth of knowledge and ultimately understanding of any product by giving it a try. Get some rudimentary battery measurement tools . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/CBA2_1.jpg then craft and conduct the experiment. If the results of the experiment are interesting and thought provoking, perhaps someone else will endeavor to repeat the experiment and validate, refine or refute the original work. Short of this effort, be mindful that all other words describing experiences and/or opinions about batteries are at best exceedingly coarse data which cannot be depended upon if ones choice of batteries has important consequences for having made a poor decision. Finally, unless one compares engineering data for one product against the data of another product, the website where any product is offered for sale should be viewed with the most rigorous skepticism. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone?
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2007
I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from Autozone. It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't remember if I tie wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed to tie wrap the wires inside and whether I need to remove the tube in case there is a fire. The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the Zod601xl but I can always drill it out if safety is a concern. Any input on this subject? Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone?
Date: Nov 05, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Whats the tube made off?....If it's PVC I probably would not have done this but if you block off the holes between the cabin and the wings then I probably wouldn't worry about it. If the conduit is made of nylon then that's even better as this burns with less fumes...In that case I wouldn't bother blocking the cabin from the wings. Not a big deal I don't think assuming you have not used PVC coverd wiring. Don't bother tie wrapping the wires inside the tube. Frank 601 HDS 400 hours RV7a 230 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mosquito56 Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 10:09 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone? --> I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from Autozone. It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't remember if I tie wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed to tie wrap the wires inside and whether I need to remove the tube in case there is a fire. The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the Zod601xl but I can always drill it out if safety is a concern. Any input on this subject? Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 05, 2007
OK. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying it. Two other questions come to mind: is the CB really necessary if there's also a fuse in series? After reading the Aeroelectric Connection, Bob has me sold on fuses and I didn't plan on adding any breakers to my panel. Second, regarding E-bus Alternate feed switch, is it a good idea to make that a guarded switch? I would hate for that switch to be accidentally left on overnight and thus draining the battery. Thanks, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144018#144018 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone?
Date: Nov 05, 2007
Even though I am still in the building phase I will weigh in as well... I put 1/2 OD flexible tube in my wings as conduit as well and here is my methodology behind that decision. 1. It's not inside the cabin with me and that was a conscious decision. 2. It's a small amount of tubing, single run one in each wing. 3. I have not tie-wrapped any wires in there because I am not worried about chafing inside the tube as Tefzel is pretty sturdy and against the conduit it should be fine. Once the wires leave the conduit for terminal blocks on the outboard and inboard ribs, there are Adel clamps holding the wires preventing stress against the terminal block connections, wire movement, etc. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mosquito56 Sent: Monday, 05 November, 2007 11:09 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone? I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from Autozone. It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't remember if I tie wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed to tie wrap the wires inside and whether I need to remove the tube in case there is a fire. The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the Zod601xl but I can always drill it out if safety is a concern. Any input on this subject? Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org>
Subject: Battery Capacity tester
Date: Nov 05, 2007
Bob, A couple of years ago you were toying with the idea of making a circuit board utilizing a processor, A/D converter ,etc for a battery capacity tester and making it available the OBAM community. Any update? Peter Laurence ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Loren Schreck - consolidated" <lschreck(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: LR-3 Controller
Date: Nov 05, 2007
First time on the list though I have been lurking for a while. I'm about 6 months from actually laying down any wire but am in the beginning stages of designing the electrical system for a light IFR - RV7. Z-11 with an aux battery or Z-13/8 are front runners right now. My question is about the replacement of the LR-3 controller with seperate regulator/OV protection/LV warning on the latest Z-13/8 drawings. I attended Bob's seminar last weekend in Houston, learned a lot and can't wait to get wiring. I asked about this change in the diagrams and the answer had something to do with philosophical differences. Can you be more specific? I like the idea of one controller that covers the OV/LV concerns as well. Is the reason for the change a cost issue or a reliability one? If I do go with the updated drawings where do I find the AEC9005-101 Low Volatage monitor? Thanks, Loren ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
>First time on the list though I have been lurking for a while. I'm about >6 months from actually laying down any wire but am in the beginning stages >of designing the electrical system for a light IFR - RV7. Z-11 with an >aux battery or Z-13/8 are front runners right now. My question is about >the replacement of the LR-3 controller with seperate regulator/OV >protection/LV warning on the latest Z-13/8 drawings. > >I attended Bob's seminar last weekend in Houston, learned a lot and can't >wait to get wiring. I asked about this change in the diagrams and the >answer had something to do with philosophical differences. Can you be >more specific? I like the idea of one controller that covers the OV/LV >concerns as well. Is the reason for the change a cost issue or a >reliability one? If I do go with the updated drawings where do I find the >AEC9005-101 Low Volatage monitor? There are as many ways to "cook up" a successful, cost effective system as there are cooks. You can go any number of ways. The LR3 delivers on its performance promise as does the combination of components depicted in Z13/8. The latter combination is less expensive but more pieces . . . and the generic "ford" regulator is not adjustable. But there are adjustable regulators of other pedigree too. The Z-figures are primarily illustrations of architecture. The choice of parts used within the these architectures is open to a variety of suitable choices which includes the LR3, components shown, and others. The AEC9005 is being replaced by the AEC9011 which is described in preliminary data at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf This is a three-channel device which may be used to watch for LV conditions on two sources and latches a relay on an OV condition on a third source. This makes it suited for use as any combination of the three tasks. The circuitry has been completed and I'm working out packaging details so as to reduce production costs. This product will be available in a month or so but there are any number of LV warning products that would do the job too. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
> >OK. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying it. > >Two other questions come to mind: is the CB really necessary if there's >also a fuse in series? After reading the Aeroelectric Connection, Bob has >me sold on fuses and I didn't plan on adding any breakers to my panel. I presume you're speaking of the alternator control feeder to a breaker that is upstream of a crowbar ov protection module. There's a fusible link which is not really a fuse but a concession to traditional notion in the T/C aircraft world for "protecting" longer than 6". If you use some other ov protection scheme, you could leave the breaker out and just run the alternator field from a standard fuse on the block. One choice would be using the AEC9011 generator/alternator OV relay feature. This eliminates the need for a breaker. It's not practical to use a fuse upstream of a breaker . . . crow-barring a 5A breaker will pop a 20A fuse, hence the fusible link with a very robust I-squared*T fusing constant in comparison with the breaker. >Second, regarding E-bus Alternate feed switch, is it a good idea to make >that a guarded switch? I would hate for that switch to be accidentally >left on overnight and thus draining the battery. Have your low oil pressure warning light run from the e-bus . . . or buzzer. If the engine is not running and the e-bus is up, it notifies you. But then, one can use guards on any switch in the airplane. Are there not things on the e-bus that would stay lit-up as sufficient warning? My personal preference is making it a checklist item. Except for pre-flighting the e-bus alternate feed switch, there's no reason to turn it on except in case of alternator failure . . . hence probability of accidental failure to turn off at end of flight is considerably reduced. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Capacity tester
>Bob, > >A couple of years ago you were toying with the idea of making a circuit >board utilizing a processor, A/D converter ,etc for a battery capacity >tester and making it available the OBAM community. > >Any update? I've prototyped and tested a device that will test two pairs of AA or AAA cells for the purpose of grading the condition of rechargeable cells and gauging the performance of various one-time-use cells. As of this time, I'm undecided about putting it on the market. There's another product under development that will test the capacity of the ship's main battery in-situ by using e-bus loads to deplete the battery and then connect to a charger/maintainer so that the battery is ready for flight at your next return. Software is being crafted for this product. It goes in the same package as the AEC9011 cited earlier. Bob. . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
From: "vozzen" <vozzen(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2007
Along these same Z-16 lines (Jabiru/Rotax with 20 amp AC generator)... Is it any problem for the regulator if it's control ("sense") is fed from the same circuit breaker as the OV module ( and OV-relay coil)? In other words, if the OV relay trips (breaking the AC line between the alternator and regulator), the "sense" line to the regulator opens, dropping the control voltage into the regulator to zero. Is this a problem? Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to feeding the regulator control directly from the bus? Thanks in advance. Richard, 601XL/3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144078#144078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Subject: VOR check
From: <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
I am building a VFR Europa with a Becker transceiver and a Vertex handheld that is panel mounted and plumbed into the intercom/audio panel. It is easily removable. The Vertex has a simple VOR in it. I heard a pilot talking today, speaking of having to keep up with VOR checks so he is legal when he gets ramp checked. Can someone enlighten me as to what a VOR check is and how you do it, how often you do it and if you think I need to do it? I also have a panel mounted Garmin 296. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: VOR check
Date: Nov 06, 2007
A VOR check is only needed if you fly IFR. Every 30 days you must do and make a written record of one of the following, 1) The degree variation of the VOR when tested against a VOT (VOT Test) signal. 2) The degree variation when tested at an approved VOR test point. Normally a surveyed location on an airport ramp with a nearby VOR. 3) If dual VOR equipped, a cross check between the 2 VOR's when tuned to the same station/radial. The allowed variation is spelled out in the FAR's. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:01 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOR check I am building a VFR Europa with a Becker transceiver and a Vertex handheld that is panel mounted and plumbed into the intercom/audio panel. It is easily removable. The Vertex has a simple VOR in it. I heard a pilot talking today, speaking of having to keep up with VOR checks so he is legal when he gets ramp checked. Can someone enlighten me as to what a VOR check is and how you do it, how often you do it and if you think I need to do it? I also have a panel mounted Garmin 296. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2007
> If you use some other ov protection > scheme, you could leave the breaker out and just > run the alternator field from a standard fuse > on the block. One choice would be using the AEC9011 > generator/alternator OV relay feature. This > eliminates the need for a breaker. Thanks, Bob. I'll just stick with the crowbar OV protection in the Z-16 diagram. I just ordered everything I need from B&C. Now all I need is a good fire extinguisher. [Laughing] Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144195#144195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Talbot" <Richard(at)talbots.net.au>
Subject: Battery Bus Feed
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Hi Everyone, One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to the Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6 inches or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to the fuse block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended wiring distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with some protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are: - Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the battery. - Install a fusible Link. - Relocate the fuse block (I don't want to do this) I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some advice from other members of the list. If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than the wire? Thanks/Regards Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <richard(at)talbots.net.au>
Subject: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 07, 2007
G'day Everyone, First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in. I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is elsewhere. In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect. The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points. Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this area? Thanks/Regards Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
From: "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2007
I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per instructions (whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I have an internally regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec, supplied by Mattituck with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the regulator whilst maintaining the OV protection & LV indication or do I need to change something? Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection - a truly excellent publication. Derek Sington. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144219#144219 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Richard, I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip. Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally and turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two homebuilt airplanes with no run away problems. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: richard(at)talbots.net.au To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch G'day Everyone, First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in. I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is elsewhere. In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect. The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points. Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this area? Thanks/Regards Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Hi Richard, I resonate with your comments about the value of electric trim and switches on the stick grip. I had a couple of Cherokee 235s a couple of decades ago, one with a manual elevator trim by overhead crank, the other with electric elevator trim on the yoke. Both had manual flaps. When I flew the second one with the electric elevator trim, though it worked perfectly well, I found myself using the overhead manual crank for elevator trim. I never found the electric trim useful. The manual flaps were never a problem. When I built my RV-6A, I decided that I would go with manual elevator trim, manual aileron trim and manual flaps. Part of the rationale was the experience with the Cherokees and the rest was independence from the electrical system. At the time, I did not even think of runaway trim. Though I believe that runaway trim is a fairly remote failure in a simple system, I would now make it a consideration. The chance of detecting it in time to hit another switch before it went full throw seems poor. The real benefit of a trim access on the grip versus reaching for a manual trim knob doesn't strike me as worth the complications of multiple speed trim and concern about runaway and its solutions. I find my manual trim to allow delicate adjustment at all airspeeds. Perhaps, those who spend a lot of time at formation flying might find convenience with electric trim. However, in Navy flight training in SNJs in the 50s, we did a lot of formation flying with manual elevator and rudder trim without any related problems. I have a similar rationale for my manual flaps. They are not electrically dependent and are only used for landing and occasionally for takeoffs. My only switch on the stick grip is my push-to-talk. I consider that to be essential. I have read lots of e-mails on this list by folks who want to not only have push-to-talk and trim on the grip, but starter button and ident. That is a lot of stuff to wire, for parts count and reliability concerns. Best regards, Richard Dudley richard(at)talbots.net.au wrote: > G'day Everyone, > > > > First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual > trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick > grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and > cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish > putting them in. > > > > I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft > without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away > and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My > expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and > disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full > travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified > world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown > over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on > the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is > elsewhere. > > > > In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" > switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary > push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP > disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for > the Trim Disconnect. > > > > The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to > use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the > cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small > (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. > > > My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature > toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the > power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points. > > > Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended > in this area? > > > Thanks/Regards > > Richard > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 06, 2007
I usually recommend a master trim switch. On my plane I used a toggle CB between the flap switch and autopilot master. Another approach is to use a momentary pushbutton in the ground from the trim switch. Then it takes two fingers to activate trim, and runaway trim is pretty much eliminated since both switches would have to fail simultaneously. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:54 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch Richard, I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip. Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally and turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two homebuilt airplanes with no run away problems. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: richard(at)talbots.net.au Server Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch G'day Everyone, First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in. I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is elsewhere. In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect. The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points. Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this area? Thanks/Regards Richard href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 496 Audio--easy fix
Date: Nov 06, 2007
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a very simple solution. To recount: It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel. Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car. I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires connected to the speaker. When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF (nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496. Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the "voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any audio. Here is how the final scenario is wired: 1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing on the 496 audio problem. >From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor, then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I don't know what would happen without them. So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio panel is on. There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable. So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working the way I want it to now. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 06, 2007
On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, wrote: > I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft > without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away > and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My > expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and > disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full > travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified > world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown > over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect > on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it > is elsewhere. > > In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim > disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the > four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, > another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose > to use this for the Trim Disconnect. > > The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to > use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the > cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small > (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed. If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side console, then release the momentary switch on the stick. I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor is running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too annoying, I think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a hall effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal of making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where a mechanical backup is impractical.. Matt- > > > On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, > wrote: > >> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft >> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away >> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My >> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and >> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full >> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified >> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown >> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect >> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it >> is elsewhere. >> >> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim >> disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the >> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, >> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose >> to use this for the Trim Disconnect. >> >> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to >> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the >> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small >> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. > > My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side > console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim > power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed. > If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect > switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side > console, then release the momentary switch on the stick. > > I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the > trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too > high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab. > > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N81JG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Subject: Re: 496 Audio--easy fix
HI Dave, I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I have only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there was no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls. The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does anyone know how and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the music to mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or warning. Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to see how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume independent of the radio. John Greaves RV7A nearing completion VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine Redding, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Trim runaway should hopefully be of minor concern for several reasons. 1; The likelihood of it happening is very low. (probably not worth worrying about) 2; Full trim travel in the types of aircraft we are building is generally liveable. i.e. although it may increase the stick forces somewhat the aircraft is still controllable (if it isn't then the trim effectiveness should perhaps be reduced until it is) 3; If you are really paranoid about the possibility, then it is a simple matter to install a DPDT centre off toggle switch in the wiring to the motor (after all the relays, control devices etc) so that in the event the trim does run away, the relays weld etc, you simply reverse this switch to run the trim back to neutral then select the centre off position to totally disconnect and isolate the motor. (this switch, if it becomes your choice, should be spring return to off from the reverse position to make it impossible to leave in the reverse position) 4; Manual trim eliminates even the remotest possibility if you're not otherwise comfortable. Bob McC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch > > Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor is > running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too annoying, I > think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a hall > effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal of > making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where a > mechanical backup is impractical.. > > > Matt- > > > > > > > > On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, > > wrote: > > > >> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft > >> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away > >> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My > >> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and > >> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full > >> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified > >> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown > >> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect > >> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it > >> is elsewhere. > >> > >> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim > >> disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the > >> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, > >> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose > >> to use this for the Trim Disconnect. > >> > >> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to > >> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the > >> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small > >> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work. > > > > My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side > > console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim > > power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed. > > If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect > > switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side > > console, then release the momentary switch on the stick. > > > > I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the > > trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too > > high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab. > > > > -- > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > > Ottawa, Canada > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar
in the Southeast...
Date: Nov 06, 2007
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with me. Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008. Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested, I'll contact Bob and secure a facility. Thanks, ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 finishing ****************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar in the Southeast...
Date: Nov 06, 2007
I'm in... Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 Home - 850-515-0640 Cell - 850-218-4838 _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with me. Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008. Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested, I'll contact Bob and secure a facility. Thanks, ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 finishing ****************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
> >I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per >instructions (whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I >have an internally regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec, >supplied by Mattituck with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the >regulator whilst maintaining the OV protection & LV indication or do I >need to change something? No, the LR3 is not compatible with the internally regulated alternator. You can . . . (1) have the alternator modified to bring out the field lead for external regulation by means of the LR3C or . . . (2) wire per Z-24 as explained in . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf in anticipation of changing out for the AEC9004 Alternator Controller for IR alternators. >Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection - >a truly excellent publication. Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased that you find it a good return on investment. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 06, 2007
Richard, If you're referring to the typical Ray Allen (RAC) electric trim, you'll note that the only time there is power to the trim servo is when your wiring is commanding a trim movement. So, first off, it is virtually impossible for the servo itself to run-away. Rather, a "run-away" has to be caused by the up-stream wiring. Keep this in mind when designing and constructing your trim circuits. Also therefore, there are several potential approaches to mitigate potential run-away scenarios. 1. Limit the overall trim such that the plane is still manually controllable at full time. 2. Think about having two independent trim feeds/buttons (with isolated disconnects). One on each stick, or 1 stick and 1 panel, etc. That way, if one feed fails and causes a runaway, you can disconnect it and then take corrective action with the other. 3. Some folks have even put a momentary power feed line reversal circuit (button) in the system. Push it and whatever is causing the trim to run one way will automatically cause it to run back the other way. Let go (and disconnect) when it's in the middle (neutral). 4. etc The RAC system's safety is in it's inherent simplicity. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of richard(at)talbots.net.au Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:19 PM G'day Everyone, ..I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Bus Feed
>Hi Everyone, > > >One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and >adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to >the Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6 >inches or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to >the fuse block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended >wiring distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with >some protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are: > > >- Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the >battery. > >- Install a fusible Link. > >- Relocate the fuse block (I don t want to do this) If it's not next to the battery, then it's not a battery bus but an always-hot bus. There are reasons for the published recommendations based on about 70+ years of aviation experience. But it is your airplane and nobody here should be trying to convince you to do something that is not also supported by your understanding. > > >I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some >advice from other members of the list. > >If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than >the wire? Use a fuse here. It needs to be as responsive as practical to overload/fault conditions. Fuses are the device of choice. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>G day Everyone, > > >First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim >systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and >other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost >IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in. > > >I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without >any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be >manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may >be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it >manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a >requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of >aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want >the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a >hurry if it is elsewhere. > > >In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim disconnect switch >to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push >buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a >spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect. > > >The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it >to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker >and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or >smaller) so I am not sure it will work. > > >My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle >from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply >to both motors. I can see this adds failure points. > > >Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in >this area? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/AP_Disconnect_B.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
> >Along these same Z-16 lines (Jabiru/Rotax with 20 amp AC generator)... > >Is it any problem for the regulator if it's control ("sense") is fed from >the same circuit breaker as the OV module ( and OV-relay coil)? > >In other words, if the OV relay trips (breaking the AC line between the >alternator and regulator), the "sense" line to the regulator opens, >dropping the control voltage into the regulator to zero. Is this a problem? > >Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to feeding the regulator >control directly from the bus? Depending on who's rectifier/regulator is being used, there may be manufacturer's prohibitions for connection of "C" to the bus independently of B and R. Having said that, and based on what I've seen of what's reputed to be an exemplar schematic of this genre' of rectifier/regulator, (See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/regul_912.jpg) I can perceive no reason in the physics for this prohibition. But unless provided with a lucid schematic of the specific device in question, I cannot refute the prohibition with confidence. Hence the drawing you see in Z-16. What problems have you deduced for wiring as suggested? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Listers Are Saying...
November is Matronics List Fund Raiser month and a number people been sending some really nice comments regarding the Lists. I thought I'd share a few below. The Lists are completely supported by your Contributions. All of the bills for new hardware, connectivity, and electricity are paid by the generous support of the List members. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of the List and Forums: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ================= What Listers Are Saying ================ Flying and building is much safer with this List!! Robert D. Thanks for having and maintaining such a great resource to all of us builders and flyers. Wayne E. Love the fact that you haven't caved to advertising! Peter J. ..a great resource!! Robert C. Not building at the moment, but the Lists keeps me right up to date with what's going on. Chris D. The web forum has been running great. James O. I enjoy this [List] site very much... Paul C. This is a great list! Albert G. ..a valuable resource! Roger C. I am deployed to Pakistan right now, and being able to go on-line and keep up with the aircraft discussions helps keep the aircraft building dream alive in my mind! Gregory C. ..fantastic service! Roger M. ..clearly a work of passion! Mike C. It is a great service to us! Kevin C. The list is a wonderful resource... Ralph O. [The Lists] have been the single greatest resource in building my RV-9A and now my RV-10. Albert G. ..a valuable and always improving service. Dick S. STILL THE BEST BARGAIN AROUND!! Owen B. ..such a valuable tool. Jon M. [The Lists] have been an invaluable resource for me as a Zenith homebuilder. David G. The opportunity to meet (on line at least) many other interesting builders and to make some new friends is truly appreciated. Albert G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Runaway trim....I agree with those who point out that the aircraft's maximum trim should still be flyable. But the problem still needs fixing. I would also like to point out that one should use environmentally-sealed switches for stick-grip trim switches. A sweaty hand on non-sealed switches leads to early failure. I have worked on a system that used the "watchdog" idea from computers where the trim system has to get a periodic signal from the controller, otherwise the trim actuator resets to some "safe" position. This is trivial to do. I have also sold plenty of my "True Servo Conversion for MAC/RAC". These seem to be a great way to make the MAC/RAC trim box work like the Cessna trim wheel. But recently I have doubted the utility of the elevator trim at all. Why bother? Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads to fatigue. So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable (perhaps near the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the force on the stick? Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated. Anybody want a patent? "When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the I.Q. of both states." --Will Rogers -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144404#144404 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick forces get too high then simply slow down. I certainly would not bother with another switch. Frank RV 7a ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert McCallum Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch Trim runaway should hopefully be of minor concern for several reasons. 1; The likelihood of it happening is very low. (probably not worth worrying about) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net>
Subject: Batteries
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Bob, A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low priced AA and AAA cells. You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the purchase. I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send you any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot com. 500 cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per cell delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was concerned that they might be short dated for that price. If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I please let me know, I will send some to you. Kevin Boddicker Tri Q 200 N7868B 77.9 hours Luana, IA. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
From: "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2007
The electric trim on my RV-7 is run by the Vertical Power system. The trim motors are controlled with solid-state switches - no mechanical relays. It provides runaway trim protection (stops the motor) by simply holding down the opposite trim switch, then after 3 seconds it disconnects the trim switches. You can then use the backup switches on the display to return the trim back to a neutral position. There is also a visual indicator when the trim is running, and soon audio as well. And it's all simpler to wire than a conventional system with mechanical relays. Of course it's part of a broader system - you can;t buy just the trim alone - but the whole point is to make overall wiring alot simpler. -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144418#144418 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin Power Requirements
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil>
Listers - Do any of you have actual, measured current draws for Garmin radio equipment? Specifically, I'd like to see the "idling" receive-mode current draws for GNS-430, SL-30 and GTX-327. I'm not looking for recommended fuse ratings - I have those. I'm looking for "real," observed power requirements in an effort to properly assess my true alternator size requirement. Neal RV-7 N8ZG Gluing Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Morrow" <DanFM01(at)butter.toast.net>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 07, 2007
>From my reading of aviation magazines, I gather the BIG airplanes often come with auto-trim systems. It's a good idea but probably already patented or covered by "prior art". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:53 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch > > Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads > to fatigue. So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable > (perhaps near the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the > force on the stick? Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated. > Anybody want a patent? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Another good reason to go Vertical. I will be doing the same thing. Remember the Ray Allen sticks operate on the principle of shorting out the connection to move the trim, so a short represents a signal to move. A dead short will also cause the servo to go nuts, so short prevention is the best design goal. A panic switch may be used to open the system completely. That could be on the panel with a big red button rather than using a spot on the stick. If the trim has already moved substantially before you hit the panic button, you need to fight it to the ground to land. Inconvenient, but not dangerous unless your load is imbalanced - pretty messy in the wind too. Once on the ground put a nut/bolt through the gap to guarantee it won't move on the way home. Another option for TruTrak users is to buy the automatic trim controller system which incorporates a fail-safe runaway feature. Somebody should design a feature that returns the servo to neutral when disconnect from power. Now there's an idea. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of marcausman Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch --> The electric trim on my RV-7 is run by the Vertical Power system. The trim motors are controlled with solid-state switches - no mechanical relays. It provides runaway trim protection (stops the motor) by simply holding down the opposite trim switch, then after 3 seconds it disconnects the trim switches. You can then use the backup switches on the display to return the trim back to a neutral position. There is also a visual indicator when the trim is running, and soon audio as well. And it's all simpler to wire than a conventional system with mechanical relays. Of course it's part of a broader system - you can;t buy just the trim alone - but the whole point is to make overall wiring alot simpler. -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144418#144418 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin Power Requirements
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Vertical readily shows those values. Not sure if you're in a hurry ?? I am not quite setup, but I will make a note of those items when complete. Differences, I have a 530, sl30 and gtx330, but they should be similar. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin Power Requirements Listers - Do any of you have actual, measured current draws for Garmin radio equipment? Specifically, I'd like to see the "idling" receive-mode current draws for GNS-430, SL-30 and GTX-327. I'm not looking for recommended fuse ratings - I have those. I'm looking for "real," observed power requirements in an effort to properly assess my true alternator size requirement. Neal RV-7 N8ZG Gluing Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 07, 2007
The Tru-Trak autopilots already offer such an auto-trim function. Works magnificently. Kenneth Melvin RV9A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 496 Audio--easy fix
Date: Nov 07, 2007
You can run the XM volume up and down by tapping the power button and scrolling left/right. QUIT to exit. Not quite as easy as a knob but at least it's all there already. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N81JG(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix HI Dave, I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I have only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there was no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls. The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does anyone know how and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the music to mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or warning. Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to see how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume independent of the radio. John Greaves RV7A nearing completion VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine Redding, CA _____ See what' ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
From: "vozzen" <vozzen(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2007
>What problems have you deduced for wiring as suggested? None-- looks great. I was using the outdated Rev.K, which showed C-lead coming thru the OV trip breaker circuit, instead of direct from battery (via Master Sw). Thanks, Bob, for your continuing attention. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144466#144466 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Subject: 496 Audio--easy fix
Dave, Thank you for posting your solution. I had kept your original note because I intend to do the same thing you described. My intention was when I got closer I would contact you to see where you ended up. Now I'll just keep t his one! I'm glad to hear you got everything working. Your solution was certainly n ot intuitively obvious (meaning I would have never figured it out!). Thanks for being the pioneer! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A (still finishing!) ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 18:02 Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a v ery simple solution. To recount: It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel. Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output alo ng with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are labele d "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car. I took t he speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires connected to the speaker. When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF (n othing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through va rious simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496. Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the "vo ice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything w orked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the v oice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any audio. Here is how the final scenario is wired: 1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warning s and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming transmis sions. As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing on the 496 audio problem. >From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor , then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other un switched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm resi stor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I don't k now what would happen without them. So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I a lways get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio panel is on. There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effec t the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable. So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's workin g the way I want it to now. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Swanson" <jswanson(at)jamadots.com>
Subject: CH701 Rotax 912
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Installing Rotax 912 into CH701. Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin terminal to the shielded wire? What tool do i need? Thanks John seems as if the last 10% takes longer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net>
Subject: 496 Audio--easy fix
Date: Nov 07, 2007
For anyone who knows: I wired my GPSMap 296 this way about 2 years ago using my Sigtronics SPA-400 intercom and the Vx-Aviation AMX-1A Audio Bus, hoping that Garmin would introduce voice warnings on the 296. The audio works fine: I get a voice alarm when power fails and a voice prompt when I change volume. I don't get any other voice warnings, however. I imagine the 496 and 296 share a lot of common code, so I would expect the 296 to have voice warnings as well. Has anyone been successful in getting voice warnings from the 296, or am I doomed to upgrade to a 496 to get this feature? Thanks, Vern Little -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fisher Paul A. Sent: November 7, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix Dave, Thank you for posting your solution. I had kept your original note because I intend to do the same thing you described. My intention was when I got closer I would contact you to see where you ended up. Now I'll just keep this one! I'm glad to hear you got everything working. Your solution was certainly not intuitively obvious (meaning I would have never figured it out!). Thanks for being the pioneer! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A (still finishing!) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 18:02 Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a very simple solution. To recount: It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel. Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car. I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires connected to the speaker. When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF (nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496. Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the "voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any audio. Here is how the final scenario is wired: 1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing on the 496 audio problem. >From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor, then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I don't know what would happen without them. So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio panel is on. There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable. So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working the way I want it to now. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com .matronics.com/contribution ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: CH701 Rotax 912
>Installing Rotax 912 into CH701. >Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin terminal >to the shielded wire? >What tool do i need? I presume you're wrestling with the shield connection. No special tools needed. You need to convert the shield braid into wire like so: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html Once both conductors at the end of your shielded wire are "plain wire", you can use the standard PIDG terminals and appropriate tool. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
> >But recently I have doubted the utility of the elevator trim at all. Why >bother? > >Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads >to fatigue. So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable >(perhaps near the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the >force on the stick? Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated. >Anybody want a patent? Demonstrated this for Lear about 30 years ago. They had a flight test aircraft fitted with a pilot pitch effort strain gage. We closed the loop on stick force and used the servoed trim system I'd already certified. The pilot held an AUTO TRIM button on the stick. He would hand-fly to desired pitch condition and the trim system would be constantly driving to take force out of the stick. Worked great, marketing couldn't see enough demand to justify developing it into a product. But that was on Lears and 30 years ago, we're working a whole new market now. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
> > >What problems have you deduced for wiring >as suggested? > >None-- looks great. I was using the outdated Rev.K, which showed C-lead >coming thru the OV trip breaker circuit, instead of direct from battery >(via Master Sw). > >Thanks, Bob, for your continuing attention. No problem . . . and I wasn't trying to challenge you on the 'modification' . . . I'm just trying to be sensitive to errors in my perceptions and evolution in new products. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: New product announcement
I wasn't predicting this item to be the first new product on the website this year but I had a need for the device in some other activities. Production parts are on order and bench testing is far enough along to bolster my confidence that this 20A Solid State Relay is ready to go up on the website. It will probably be about 30 days before I can take orders. I don't build products here any more and my production house needs some time. We'll probably build 100 of these for the first batch. In the mean time, I'd be pleased to answer any questions about it. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html This product uses a newly developed, standard package philosophy that reduces assembly time It also reduces time needed to get new products on the market. The electronics are easy, the packaging can be a real cost driver. There's a stream of 6 or so so new devices on burners that will fit into this same package or the next size up. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE:496 Audio--easy fix
Date: Nov 07, 2007
John, I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume. From: N81JG(at)aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix HI Dave, I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I have only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there was no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls. The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does anyone know how and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the music to mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or warning. Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to see how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume independent of the radio. John Greaves RV7A nearing completion VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine Redding, CA Marty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE:496 Audio--easy fix
Date: Nov 07, 2007
Dave, First, thank you for your diligence in this matter and for sharing your knowledge openly on this list. If I understand your comments below the "Voice -" line from the 496 is left open, right? I think the only reason for the 220 ohm resistor may be due to having the EFIS voice on the same input connection. I think Bob has commented on this before on this list or it may be in his book, I seem to recall something about this in his audio amplifier section dealing with audio isolation. Bob, can you "weigh-in" on this issue? Marty From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a very simple solution. To recount: It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel. Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car. I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires connected to the speaker. When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF (nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496. Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the "voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any audio. Here is how the final scenario is wired: 1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing on the 496 audio problem. >From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm >resistor, then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I don't know what would happen without them. So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio panel is on. There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable. So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working the way I want it to now. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: Jim Dabney <jdabney(at)rice.edu>
Subject: Re: New product announcement
Bob, Will this new solid state relay be suitable for use as the alternator relay for the SD-8 (Z-13) or for the alternator relay for a Jabiru 20 amp alternator, replacing relay S704-1? As I recall, you said in your Houston class that the solid state relays have much lower holding current than conventional relays. Jim At 08:23 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote: > > >I wasn't predicting this item to be the first >new product on the website this year but I had >a need for the device in some other activities. > >Production parts are on order and bench testing is >far enough along to bolster my confidence that >this 20A Solid State Relay is ready to go up on >the website. It will probably be about 30 days >before I can take orders. I don't build products >here any more and my production house needs >some time. We'll probably build 100 of these for >the first batch. > >In the mean time, I'd be pleased to answer >any questions about it. See: > >http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html > >This product uses a newly developed, standard >package philosophy that reduces assembly time >It also reduces time needed to get new products >on the market. The electronics are easy, the >packaging can be a real cost driver. There's a >stream of 6 or so so new devices on burners >that will fit into this same package or the next >size up. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) > ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) > ( Good news weakens me." ) > ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing
From: "G-VANN" <donald.carnegie(at)bilsolutions.co.uk>
Date: Nov 08, 2007
I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about 20cm behind the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I have had trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am looking for suggestions. I want to move it either forward or rearwards. Rearwards will put it behind the steps which I think are interfering with the signal. I am also going to mount a straight antenna on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one to the main com and the other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that I can connect my handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing any suggestions on belly locations. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144551#144551 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Batteries
>Bob, >A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low priced AA >and AAA cells. >You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the purchase. >I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send you any >cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot com. 500 cells for >$49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per cell delivered! The cells >have a 12 2012 out date. I was concerned that they might be short dated >for that price. >If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I please >let me know, I will send some to you. Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples from the other gentleman. On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per cell. I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your samples to the data base. Thanks for your time and interest. Bob Nuckolls 6936 Bainbridge Road Wichita, KS 67226-1008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE:496 Audio--easy fix
On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any other button afterwards kills the pop-up. Emrath wrote: > > > John, > I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there > are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: New product announcement
> >Bob, > >Will this new solid state relay be suitable for use as the alternator >relay for the SD-8 (Z-13) or for the alternator relay for a Jabiru 20 amp >alternator, replacing relay S704-1? As I recall, you said in your Houston >class that the solid state relays have much lower holding current than >conventional relays. I'll have to think about that a bit. Probably not a drop-in replacement in Z-16 because "C" terminal draws a small amount of current which would be "back fed" through the de-energized relay into a non-running alternator. Yes, this "relay" operates on 20 mA of current while the S704-1 is on the order off 100 mA. But even 100 mA is so insignificant to the load analysis that I wouldn't recommend ditching the S704-1 for that reason alone. Hmmm . . . the other scenario is to consider the purpose of the S704-1 is to provide control in an OV condition too. The AEC9030 would get into trouble at over 24v differential or about 36 volts out of a runaway alternator. I guess the short answer is "no", not as presently configured. It's better suited for landing/taxi light control and wig-wag circuits, pitot heat relay, e-bus alternate feed, etc. The reason this came into existence so soon is that one of my clients needed to control some 8-15A loads and the controls design called for illuminated push-buttons that would not carry those loads. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Swanson" <jswanson(at)jamadots.com>
Subject: Re: CH701 Rotax 912
Date: Nov 08, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CH701 Rotax 912 > > > >>Installing Rotax 912 into CH701. >>Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin >>terminal >>to the shielded wire? >>What tool do i need? > > I presume you're wrestling with the shield connection. > No special tools needed. You need to convert the shield > braid into wire like so: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html > > Once both conductors at the end of your shielded > wire are "plain wire", you can use the standard > PIDG terminals and appropriate tool. > > Bob . . . > > Bob Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax 912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not having the proper technique or tool. Any help on this would be appreciated Thankks John CH701 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing
> > >I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about >20cm behind the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I >have had trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am >looking for suggestions. I want to move it either forward or >rearwards. Rearwards will put it behind the steps which I think are >interfering with the signal. I am also going to mount a straight antenna >on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one to the main com and the >other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that I can connect my >handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing any >suggestions on belly locations. I would explore other reasons first. It is exceedingly difficult to "shadow" a VHF comm antenna so severely as to attenuate your signals that bad. Those steps will have some influence . . . but it would take a carefully controlled setup on the antenna range to quantify it. Make sure the SWR is good on the antenna as-installed and that the transmitter's power output and modulation are up to snuff. I've seen deeper "shadows" due to local surroundings. I presume you're only having trouble on the ground. Does the hand-held with rubber-duck antenna work good when the panel mounted radio and belly antenna does not? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Tyco and all its problems
Date: Nov 08, 2007
Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime. I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf, which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well. The info sheet gives the description of the device as - "TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo is: "EV200 Series Contactor (CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is left to the customer to divine. I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10 minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing to clarify the discrepancy. Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent - I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries. Cheers, Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery charging
From: "roadmaps" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2007
In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should the diode have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode? John T Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144581#144581 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument panel beginner
From: "dekano" <dekano(at)bluebottle.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2007
For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying) Dekano ---------------------------------------- Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Date: Nov 08, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
WOw...thats word forword almost exactly the same post I wrote about a month back...:) Even my 601 I sold with 400 hours on it! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dekano Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner --> For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying) Dekano ---------------------------------------- Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: CH701 Rotax 912
> >Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax >912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the >electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not >having the proper technique or tool. >Any help on this would be appreciated Okay, you need to send me a picture of the parts you're working with. Get me a closeup of the un-installed pin and the socket in the module. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2007
From: rd2(at)evenlink.com
Subject: 396/496 Audio revisited
Thanks for all postings on the subject. I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone through 196, 296 and 396. To summarize on the AUDIO subject: In aviation mode: 296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings 396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following VOICE warnings: -Terrain -Obstructions -500 ft AGL -Sink Rate -Traffic (if so equipped) The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are: 1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the power cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the unit. The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker) The volume of the output can be controlled. Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings 2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings. The volume of the output can be controlled. So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio (be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output (3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so equipped), XM audio]. In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack. Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM audio, it will be always on during ATC communications. How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference; there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom). Rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from MauleDriver; Date: 07:30 AM 11/8/2007 -0500) ________________________________________________________________ On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any other button afterwards kills the pop-up. Emrath wrote: > > > John, > I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there > are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Tyco and all its problems
Sorry your having so much trouble with this procurement my friend. Allied Electronics, for one, carries the Kilovac series devices. The catalog page is: http://tinyurl.com/3e3hyj I believe you want the Allied Stock #433-0016, Kilovac Model EV200AAANA, Tyco part #1618002-7 The part you have may be this same part. The data sheet for this part can be had at: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf It shouldn't be hard to confirm with a multimeter that your holding current is on the order of .15A Hope this helps. Bob . . . > >Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime. >I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up: >http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf, >which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax >dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a >large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris >was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well. >The info sheet gives the description of the device as - >"TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo >is: >"EV200 Series Contactor >(CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is >left to the customer to divine. >I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10 >minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted >no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got >another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and >delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of >this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in >USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it >up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that >it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I >have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec >page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing >to clarify the discrepancy. > Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent >- I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from >TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries. >Cheers, Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net>
Subject: 496 Audio
Date: Nov 08, 2007
I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecting up the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., delivers the desired results, loud and clear. Kenneth Melvin, RV9A, Hillsboro, Oregon. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Battery charging
> >In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should >the diode have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode? Why a diode? You can hook the second battery right up to the system through a switch or relay and make sure it gets the full benefit of a charge from full bus voltage. Dual batteries have been discussed for many purposes and illustrated in the z-figures. Assuming you have active notification of alternator failure (low bus volts warning light) then there's little to be gained and something to be lost in using a diode for battery isolation. A switch works better. But if you have to have a diode, get one of these things from Radio Shack http://tinyurl.com/ytcdr7 and use one of the four diodes it contains. It's rated at 25A and will probably handle the task just fine . . . assuming that the "second battery" is a relatively small one. Like 10 a.h. or less. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: New product announcement
Date: Nov 08, 2007
You said "one of my clients needed to control some 8-15A loads and the controls design called for illuminated push-buttons that would not carry those loads." Bob, can you give us some idea how many "buttons" each relay would be able to control (I assume one button per relay). Also, what brand/type of illuminated push-buttons have you been testing with the relay? Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
Subject: more on Trim Disconnect Switch
Date: Nov 08, 2007
For those concerned about run-away trim conditions and being able to reverse those conditions you may want to look at a new product from TCW Technologies at www.tcwtech.com. This new product called Safety-Trim resolves run-away trim conditions, provides speed control, + 2 speed adjustable presets, + emergency trim reverse and is availble in 1 and 2 axis versions. Bob Newman TCW Technologies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution
Yet! :-) Dear Listers, If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the first time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribution messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. I run ALL of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. There are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Runaway trim
Frank is correct: The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim issue and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to counter-act when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling back and slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot that a safe landing can be made. One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in the RV aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much (electric) trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond fast enough when the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I purchased a trim control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this (perceived) problem. I have a micro switch that opens when the flaps are down to send a signal to the trim control module to change the trim motor speed. One of the design features of this unit is that it has a runaway trim sensing feature built in. If the trim button is held for more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wire shorted to ground), the trim control module assumes a runaway condition and shuts off the trim motor. Cycling power returns the unit to normal operating condition. Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it worth the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system (the price was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does it always work as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd like to know what to expect. Thanks. Dean RV-6A N197DM Functional (electron) checkout in progress. >__________________________ Original Message________________________________ > >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch >From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>> > >And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick >forces get too high then simply slow down. > >I certainly would not bother with another switch. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Antennae connector
I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this connector? Where could I obtain just one? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
From: "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net>
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation mechanism? Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? Thank you for your patience with my questions Derek. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Batteries
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Bob, You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS. Kevin Boddicker Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours Luana, IA. On Nov 7, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> Bob, >> A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low >> priced AA and AAA cells. >> You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the >> purchase. >> I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send >> you any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot >> com. 500 cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per >> cell delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was >> concerned that they might be short dated for that price. >> If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I >> please let me know, I will send some to you. > > Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples > from the other gentleman. > > On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of > AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in > Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per > cell. > > I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your > samples to the data base. Thanks for your > time and interest. > > Bob Nuckolls > 6936 Bainbridge Road > Wichita, KS 67226-1008 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 496 Audio
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Thanks, Ken. I'll pass this on to Jacek, who did most of the grunt work. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Melvin Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio --> I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecting up the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., delivers the desired results, loud and clear. Kenneth Melvin, RV9A, Hillsboro, Oregon. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: emrath(at)comcast.net
Subject: 396/496 Audio Revisited.
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Rumen, Thanks for this posting, it is helpful. What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio panel and to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radio, if so subscribed, but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel. So for me, it appears using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input is the way to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/8" audio could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe using 220 ohm resisters, to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus have both the IPOD and Warnings muted by radio calls. Someone please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, given the below informaton From: rd2(at)evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio revisited Thanks for all postings on the subject. I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone through 196, 296 and 396. To summarize on the AUDIO subject: In aviation mode: 296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings 396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following VOICE warnings: -Terrain -Obstructions -500 ft AGL -Sink Rate -Traffic (if so equipped) The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are: 1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the power cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the unit. The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker) The volume of the output can be controlled. Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings 2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings. The volume of the output can be controlled. So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio (be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output (3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so equipped), XM audio]. In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack. Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM audio, it will be always on during ATC communications. How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference; there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom). Rumen
Rumen,
Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
 
What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio panel and to be able to listen to my IPOD.  One can turn off the XM radio, if so subscribed, but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel.  So for me, it appears using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input is the way to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/8" audio could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe using 220 ohm resisters, to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus have both the IPOD and Warnings muted by radio calls.   Someone please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, given the below informaton
 
; inst ead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the
unit.

The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)

The volume of the output can be controlled.

Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings


2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance

Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.

The volume of the output can be controlled.


So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstru ctions , 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].

In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.

Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio, it will be always on during ATC communications.

How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom).

Rumen


      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire Protection - Again
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
I'm using the Z13/8 as the basis of my -8A electrical design. Feeling pretty smug since no major problems encountered so far with the wiring. But as always, the devil is in the details. Just noticed that the 14 AWG wire going from the battery contactor to the battery bus has a little * next to it that refers to a note that sez: 6 inches or less. I'm using fuse blocks mounted in the right forward baggage compartment as the bus location. Wire length is closer to 18 inches than 6 inches - although I can rearrange fuse block locations by redrilling. Instead, how about using 12 AWG wire instead of 14 AWG? Paul Valovich N192NM Reserved (again) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Batteries
>Bob, >You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS. >Kevin Boddicker >Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours >Luana, IA. Very good sir. I'll put them on the precision "battery killer" right away. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Wound field alternators are regulated by adjusting the amount of current going through the field windings - several Amps at high output. The LR3-C is designed for an alternator like this. Additionally, the LR3-C is a linear regulator meaning that it's field output is not switched on and off (in a pulse width modulated method), but instead continuously adjusted so as to provide the correct field current (and be electrically quiet while doing it). If the bus voltage sags a little, the field current is increased a little. Many/most internally regulated alternators don't take their field current from the sense line, but from a connection to the B-lead through the regulator circuit. If the LR3-C were wired "around" the internally regulated alternator, I predict the output would, at best, be unstable. As the bus voltage sagged, the LR3-C would increase the field voltage/current, the internal regulator on the alternator would think the bus voltage was rising quickly, and reduce the field current - at least with some bus dynamics. Additionally, I suspect the LR3-C would be operating at the very edge of its design curve - the current through the sense line on an internally regulated alternator may be exceedingly low, which is not what the LR3-C is likely designed for - it's leakage current through the field output might be higher than what the sense line will use - if it's driving a FET for instance. Also, I suspect that the overvoltage feature of the LR3-C might not work on an internally regulated alternator as some fail modes on these alternators don't respond to grounding the sense lead - the alternator continues be unregulated. The bottom line is the that the LR3-C is designed to enhance performance in a certain type of circuit, and this isn't it. If you need the features like independent over voltage protection you'll be better off adding a circuit just for that. I'd imagine that you could sell the LR3-C for nearly what you paid for it. Or, buy a compatible, externally regulated alternator. Regards, Matt- > > Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it > not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as > such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn > on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to > it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the > previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring > against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation > mechanism? > > Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master > contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? > > Thank you for your patience with my questions > > Derek. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antennae connector
> > >I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on >the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip >ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this >connector? Where could I obtain just one? Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio to be easily removed from the panel for maintenance leaving the harnesses attached to the tray. See if this isn't the critter you're looking for: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg No doubt the supplier listed is but one of many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and see what pops up. P.S. Here's one: http://tinyurl.com/ynswar Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antennae connector
> > >I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on >the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip >ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this >connector? Where could I obtain just one? Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio to be easily removed from the panel for maintenance leaving the harnesses attached to the tray. See if this isn't the critter you're looking for: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg No doubt the supplier listed is but one of many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and see what pops up. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: TYCO and all its problems
Date: Nov 09, 2007
Bob, Once again, you have come through with the needed info, as did Ron Parigoris. I'll get on it right away! Many thanks for the trouble taken..... Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
> >Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it >not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as >such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn >on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to >it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the >previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring >against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation >mechanism? No, the output of an LR3C is intended to directly drive the field winding of an alternator and it expects to see a nearly instantaneous response to TINY changes of DC voltage. The LR3 output varies from as low as 1v in cruising flight with light loads on the alternator to some value just below bus voltage. The input signal expected by an internally regulated alternator is either fully-on or fully-off . . . and for most alternators, turning the input command off after the alternator comes alive has no effect. An externally regulated alternator brings the field lead out for connection to the regulator and has a diagram much like so: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/External_Regulator.jpg . . . while the internally regulated machine looks like this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Internal_Regulator.jpg There's LOTS of "stuff" in that box labeled "REG" that would totally bumfoozle an LR3 or any other external regulator. >Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master >contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? Don't know about Van's products. Dimensions for the S701-1 are here: http://tinyurl.com/3dnmcg >Thank you for your patience with my questions My pleasure sir. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Runaway trim
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
On my RV7 its just not that big of a deal, sure at speed you barely touch the trim switch to adjust but honestly its not hard to trim it out. Frank RV7a IO360 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:15 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim --> Frank is correct: The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim issue and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to counter-act when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling back and slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot that a safe landing can be made. One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in the RV aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much (electric) trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond fast enough when the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I purchased a trim control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this (perceived) problem. I have a micro switch that opens when the flaps are down to send a signal to the trim control module to change the trim motor speed. One of the design features of this unit is that it has a runaway trim sensing feature built in. If the trim button is held for more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wire shorted to ground), the trim control module assumes a runaway condition and shuts off the trim motor. Cycling power returns the unit to normal operating condition. Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it worth the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system (the price was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does it always work as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd like to know what to expect. Thanks. Dean RV-6A N197DM Functional (electron) checkout in progress. >__________________________ Original >Message________________________________ > >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch >From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>> > >And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick >forces get too high then simply slow down. > >I certainly would not bother with another switch. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
From: "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net>
Date: Nov 10, 2007
Thank you for the swift replies. I will order the S701-1 and wire it up as per your instructions. The fog is beginning to clear... Derek. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144889#144889 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RURUNY(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2007
Subject: Re: CH701 Rotax 912
I posted some pics of the connector in question, I used a crimper as specified on Bobs site. Just go to: _http://www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com/) I put a link at the top of the homepage called Rotax Ignition Wiring. hope this helps Brian Unruh Long Island ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: LR-3 Controller
Matt is very close. Permit me to refine the response a bit further . . . > >Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it >not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as >such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn >on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to >it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the >previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring >against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation >mechanism? No, the output of an LR3 is linear DC voltage intended to drive the field winding of an alternator at up to 3 Amps; it expects to see a nearly instantaneous response to TINY changes of DC voltage. The LR3 output varies from as low as 1v in cruising flight with light loads on the alternator to some max value just below bus voltage. An internally regulated alternator expects a fully-on or fully-off command signal; not a 'throttled', variable DC level. Turning the input command off after the alternator comes alive has no effect on most alternators. For external regulation the field lead is brought out for connection to the regulator and has a diagram much like so: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/External_Regulator.jpg . . . while the internally regulated machine looks like this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Internal_Regulator.jpg There's LOTS of "stuff" in that box labeled "REG" that would totally bumfoozle an LR3 or any other external regulator. >Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master >contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? Don't know about Van's products. Dimensions for the S701-1 are here: http://tinyurl.com/3dnmcg >Thank you for your patience with my questions My pleasure sir. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2007
From: Gary Hall <gary.chris(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 11/09/07
I appreciate your efforts in trying to provide a service but Yahoo lists are free and if I have to support you then I'll opt out. Your choice, Warm regards, gary AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either o f the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatt ed > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text e ditor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View= html&Chapter 07-11-09&Archive=AeroElectric > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View= txt&Chapter 07-11-09&Archive=AeroElectric > > > ======================== ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 11/09/07: 12 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 0. 12:38 AM - If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contributi on Yet! :-) (Matt Dralle) > 1. 12:59 AM - Runaway trim (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) > 2. 08:11 AM - Antennae connector (Ernest Christley) > 3. 10:28 AM - Re: LR-3 Controller (dksington) > 4. 11:44 AM - Re: Batteries (Kevin Boddicker) > 5. 01:28 PM - Re: 496 Audio (Dave Saylor) > 6. 01:45 PM - 396/496 Audio Revisited. (emrath(at)comcast.net) > 7. 04:18 PM - Wire Protection - Again (Valovich, Paul) > 8. 04:50 PM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 9. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: LR-3 Controller (Matt Prather) > 10. 06:41 PM - Re: Antennae connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 11. 10:17 PM - Re: Antennae connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > > > > ________________________________ Message 0 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A C ontribution > Yet! :-) > > > Dear Listers, > > If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its becau se you haven't > yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the fir st > time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribu tion > messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support > the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don' t > you wish PBS worked that way? :-) > > You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support r equests > messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal ema il inbox! > I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it was > always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code , that > I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite the bullet > and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, b am! > A working system! > > I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributi ons to support > the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware > and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also g oes to > pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric > bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered > up. I run ALL of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locall y which > allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utm ost in > reliably and performance. > > Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Lis ters such > as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I acc ept exactly > ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand > the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet > these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List si te. > > > If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matro nics Email > Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Thank you! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > [Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. The re are certain > circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. > These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when > using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the F orum. > Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no si mple way > to filter them.] > > > ________________________________ Message 1 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim > > > Frank is correct: > > The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim issue > and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to counter -act > when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling back and > slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot that a safe > landing can be made. > > One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in th e RV > aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much (elect ric) > trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond fast enough w hen > the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I purchased a trim > control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this (perceived) problem. I > have a micro switch that opens when the flaps are down to send a signal to > the trim control module to change the trim motor speed. One of the desi gn > features of this unit is that it has a runaway trim sensing feature bui lt > in. If the trim button is held for more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wir e > shorted to ground), the trim control module assumes a runaway condition and > shuts off the trim motor. Cycling power returns the unit to normal > operating condition. > > Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it wo rth > the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system (the pri ce > was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does it always w ork > as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd like to know wh at to > expect. Thanks. > > > Dean > RV-6A N197DM > Functional (electron) checkout in progress. > > > >> __________________________ Original Message___________________________ _____ >> >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch >> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>> >> >> And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick >> forces get too high then simply slow down. >> >> I certainly would not bother with another switch. >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector > > > I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory > on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a > clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for > this connector? Where could I obtain just one? > > > ________________________________ Message 3 __________________________ ___________ > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LR-3 Controller > From: "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net> > > > Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it not merely > send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as such as far > as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn on or of f? If > this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to it) then am I not > simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the previously docum ented problems > with internal regulation am insuring against a reasonably likely future > failure of the internal regulation mechanism? > > Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master con tactor (ES > 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? > > Thank you for your patience with my questions > > Derek. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries > > Bob, > You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS. > Kevin Boddicker > Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours > Luana, IA. > > > On Nov 7, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >>> Bob, >>> A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low >>> priced AA and AAA cells. >>> You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the >>> purchase. >>> I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send >>> you any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot >>> com. 500 cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per >>> cell delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was >>> concerned that they might be short dated for that price. >>> If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I >>> please let me know, I will send some to you. >>> >> Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples >> from the other gentleman. >> >> On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of >> AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in >> Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per >> cell. >> >> I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your >> samples to the data base. Thanks for your >> time and interest. >> >> Bob Nuckolls >> 6936 Bainbridge Road >> Wichita, KS 67226-1008 >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio > > > Thanks, Ken. I'll pass this on to Jacek, who did most of the grunt wor k. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenn eth > Melvin > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:51 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio > > --> > > I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecti ng up > the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can > now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., deli vers > the desired results, loud and clear. > Kenneth Melvin, RV9A, > Hillsboro, Oregon. > > > ________________________________ Message 6 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: emrath(at)comcast.net > Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio Revisited. > > Rumen, > Thanks for this posting, it is helpful. > > What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio p anel and > to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radio, if so subscribed, > but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel. So for me, it appears > using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input is the way > to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/ 8" audio > could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe using 220 ohm resis ters, > to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus have both the IPOD and War nings > muted by radio calls. Someone please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, > given the below informaton > > From: rd2(at)evenlink.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio revisited > > > Thanks for all postings on the subject. > > I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone > through 196, 296 and 396. > > To summarize on the AUDIO subject: > > In aviation mode: > > 296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings > > 396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the followin g > VOICE warnings: > > -Terrain > -Obstructions > -500 ft AGL > -Sink Rate > -Traffic (if so equipped) > > The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are: > > 1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the > Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the powe r > cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to t he > unit. > > The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeake r) > > The volume of the output can be controlled. > > Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings > > > 2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance > > Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings. > > The volume of the output can be controlled. > > > So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available au dio > (be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio > available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio out put > (3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and > mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is > soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as > audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so > equipped), XM audio]. > > In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the > panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended f or > speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack. > > Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the aud io > panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switch ed > input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there i s XM > audio, it will be always on during ATC communications. > > How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preferen ce; > there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken int o > consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to fee d it > to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom). > > Rumen > >
Rumen,
>
Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
>
 
>
What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the au dio panel > and to be able to listen to my IPOD.  One can turn off the XM radi o, if > so subscribed, but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel.& nbsp; > So for me, it appears using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswi tched input > is the way to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. A lternatively, 1/8" > audio could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe > using 220 ohm resisters, to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus > have both the IPOD and Warnings muted by radio calls.   Someo ne > please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, given the below informa ton
>
 
his);" href="http://mailcenter.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/473491D20003A800000 0136E2205886172089B0E9D030A?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=rd2%40evenlink%2Eco m&sid=c0">rd2(at)evenlink.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/4 96 Audio revisited


Thanks for all postings on the subject.

I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gon e
through 196, 296 and 396.

To summarize on the AUDIO subject:< BR>
In aviation mode:

296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings

396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following
VOICE warnings:

-Terrain
-Obstructio ns
-500 ft AGL
-Sink Rate 
-Traffic (if so equipped)

The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audi o) are:

1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if no t using the
Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- > ; inst > ead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loud speakers > with no connection to the
unit.

The Data Cable output is mono , low > impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)

The volume of the output can be > controlled.

Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted durin g warnings


2) > 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance

Music > (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.

The > volume of the output can be controlled.


So, there is no diff erence > between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or m usic) > and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data cable > (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only difference > here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable i n > both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls > everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstru > ctions > , 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].

In aviation > mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel bec ause > it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker and > the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.

Fina lly, the > audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel o r intercom > (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be > always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio , it will > be always on during ATC communications.

How to feed the audio fr om the > 396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and disadvantages > with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is > to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e =2Eg. intercom). >

Rumen

> >

      >
      >
      > 
> > ________________________________ Message 7 __________________________ ___________ > > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Protection - Again > From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> > > I'm using the Z13/8 as the basis of my -8A electrical design. Feeling > pretty smug since no major problems encountered so far with the wiring. > But as always, the devil is in the details. > > > Just noticed that the 14 AWG wire going from the battery contactor to > the battery bus has a little * next to it that refers to a note that > sez: 6 inches or less. > > > I'm using fuse blocks mounted in the right forward baggage compartment > as the bus location. Wire length is closer to 18 inches than 6 inches - > although I can rearrange fuse block locations by redrilling. Instead, > how about using 12 AWG wire instead of 14 AWG? > > Paul Valovich > > N192NM Reserved (again) > > > ________________________________ Message 8 __________________________ ___________ > > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries > > > > >> Bob, >> You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS. >> Kevin Boddicker >> Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours >> Luana, IA. >> > > Very good sir. I'll put them on the precision > "battery killer" right away. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 9 __________________________ ___________ > > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: LR-3 Controller > From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> > > > Wound field alternators are regulated by adjusting the amount of curren t > going through the field windings - several Amps at high output. The LR 3-C > is designed for an alternator like this. Additionally, the LR3-C is a > linear regulator meaning that it's field output is not switched on and off > (in a pulse width modulated method), but instead continuously adjusted so > as to provide the correct field current (and be electrically quiet whil e > doing it). If the bus voltage sags a little, the field current is > increased a little. > > Many/most internally regulated alternators don't take their field curre nt > from the sense line, but from a connection to the B-lead through the > regulator circuit. If the LR3-C were wired "around" the internally > regulated alternator, I predict the output would, at best, be unstable. > As the bus voltage sagged, the LR3-C would increase the field > voltage/current, the internal regulator on the alternator would think t he > bus voltage was rising quickly, and reduce the field current - at least > with some bus dynamics. > > Additionally, I suspect the LR3-C would be operating at the very edge o f > its design curve - the current through the sense line on an internally > regulated alternator may be exceedingly low, which is not what the LR3- C > is likely designed for - it's leakage current through the field output > might be higher than what the sense line will use - if it's driving a F ET > for instance. > > Also, I suspect that the overvoltage feature of the LR3-C might not wor k > on an internally regulated alternator as some fail modes on these > alternators don't respond to grounding the sense lead - the alternator > continues be unregulated. > > The bottom line is the that the LR3-C is designed to enhance performanc e > in a certain type of circuit, and this isn't it. If you need the featu res > like independent over voltage protection you'll be better off adding a > circuit just for that. I'd imagine that you could sell the LR3-C for > nearly what you paid for it. Or, buy a compatible, externally regulate d > alternator. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > > >> Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does i t >> not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, an d as >> such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn >> on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to >> it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with t he >> previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring >> against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation >> mechanism? >> >> Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master >> contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)? >> >> Thank you for your patience with my questions >> >> Derek. >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823 >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 _________________________ ___________ > > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector > > > > >> >> >> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connector y on >> the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a c lip >> ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for thi s >> connector? Where could I obtain just one? >> > > Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors > crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio > to be easily removed from the panel for > maintenance leaving the harnesses attached > to the tray. See if this isn't the critter > you're looking for: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg > > No doubt the supplier listed is but one of > many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and > see what pops up. > > P.S. Here's one: > > http://tinyurl.com/ynswar > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) > ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) > ( Good news weakens me." ) > ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 11 _________________________ ___________ > > > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector > > > > >> >> >> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connector y on >> the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a c lip >> ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for thi s >> connector? Where could I obtain just one? >> > > Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors > crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio > to be easily removed from the panel for > maintenance leaving the harnesses attached > to the tray. See if this isn't the critter > you're looking for: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg > > No doubt the supplier listed is but one of > many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and > see what pops up. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) > ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) > ( Good news weakens me." ) > ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2007
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Antennae connector
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> >> >> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae >> connectory on the rear. This is the type that locks into the >> mounting tray with a clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is >> there a proper name for this connector? Where could I obtain just one? > > Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors > crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio > to be easily removed from the panel for > maintenance leaving the harnesses attached > to the tray. See if this isn't the critter > you're looking for: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg > > No doubt the supplier listed is but one of > many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and > see what pops up. > That's it. Thanks, Bob. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Antennae connector
Sounds like what I've got on the back of my SL-70. If it is, Garmin-AT will probably sell you one for an arm and a leg..... Otherwise - I don't know.... Regardless, I may be looking for the same thing as I am having some trouble with my SL-70 and want to do some testing....... Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> >Sent: Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM >To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector > > >I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory >on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a >clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for >this connector? Where could I obtain just one? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 11/08/07
This runaway trim issue interests me because I had it happen in my RV-4 on takeoff. Handled it by slowing down to the new trim speed, but now I'm building a faster, more powerful airplane and am looking for protection from a potentially more difficult situation. The TCW system sounds good but I have a TruTrak ADI Pilot II and was wondering if they are compatible and if there is any sense in which they would work against each other. Does anyone know how these two systems would work together? Does the TruTrak provide any protection from runaway trim itself, or would it be better to have both? Thanks and regards, Lee... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2007
From: D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New product announcement
Bob, Does this unit allow independent control of multiple units? I'm considering a solid-state relay deck for control of my trim actuators, one of which can take up to 5A. This may be the right device for me. Thanks, Dan __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EuropaXSA276(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2007
Subject: Re: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar... I'll fly in. Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Rotax 912
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: ruruny(at)aol.com
I posted some pics of the connector in question, I used a crimper as specified on Bobs site. Just go to: http://www.701builder.com I put a link at the top of the homepage called Rotax Ignition Wiring. hope this helps Brian Unruh Long Island ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Antennae connector
>I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on >the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip >ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this >connector? Where could I obtain just one? Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio to be easily removed from the panel for maintenance leaving the harnesses attached to the tray. See if this isn't the critter you're looking for: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg No doubt the supplier listed is but one of many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and see what pops up. P.S. Here's one: http://tinyurl.com/ynswar Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: Drdavevk30(at)cs.com
Subject: Tyco and all its problems


October 29, 2007 - November 10, 2007

AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hi