AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hi
October 29, 2007 - November 10, 2007
>> on sites like Barnstormers.
>>
>> If you need Mode-S in your area any time soon then you may want to look
>> at Filser. Their TRT800 transponder has the encoder built-in, so only
>> static pressure is needed. They have versions that fit 2 1/4" round panel
>> cut-outs and versions that are drop-in replacement for the square boxes.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the heads-up. I'll just wait.
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
>>> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
>>> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
>>> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
>>> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
>>> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
>>> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
>>> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
>>> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
>>> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>>>
>>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
>>> serial input?
>>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
>
>David,
>
>Am of the opinion the use of the Dynon D-180, or any other EFIS with
>internal battery backup, justifies a simplification to Bob's method of
>feeding the Endurance Bus. In your diagram, remove the Note 12 diode,
>remove the Avionics Master Switch and connect the 14AWG wire which fed the
>diode from the Main Bus to the unused contact on the 1-3 E-Bus Alt Feed Switch.
. . . which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
of failure for both feeds to the ebus.
>This results in fewer parts and eliminates the voltage drop across the
>diode along with the heat the diode generates. While Bob specifies a very
>robust unit, the heat sensitive diode is still a weak link compared to the
>other components in the path.
But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive"
is it? Can you quantify these assertions against the
components published capabilities and limits?
>Now, come an electrical emergency (fire, trim runaway, A/P failure,
>alternator runaway, etc.), you have one and only one consistent action to
>take.. turn off the battery master. Continue to fly the plane with the
>EFIS (and your GPS as backup). At your leisure: 1) tell the EFIS and GPS
>you want them to continue to operate on their internal battery power 2)
>turn off everything fed by the Endurance Bus 3) switch the Endurance Bus
>Alternate Feed to Battery Direct and 4) turn on each E-Bus load one at a
>time and verify the item doesn't contribute to the problem.
>
>Would also suggest the use of combined circuit breaker-switches instead of
>the acres of breakers and separate switches of most aircraft.
>
>Fewer components, simpler procedures. Bob, what are the negatives to this
>approach?
Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices,
expensive and require that you build "the bus" right
on the back of a row of switches in addition to
other busses along the backs of breakers that are not
switches.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_1.jpg
We used about 80,000 of this breaker/switch
in Beech products over the past 40 years or
so. They would not be my first choice for
today's elegant design . . . like helicopters,
waayyyy to many moving parts going in different
directions.
The short path to Nirvana are the fuseblocks.
The busses are already fabricated, they're mounted
out of the way in minutes and do not encroach on
panel space.
I'll remind readers that the architectures
depicted in the z-figures offer specific features
for operation and failure mitigation. When
modifying an architectural feature of the drawings
for the purpose of some customization, be
aware that you may be tossing out some
salient feature.
While in Houston this weekend for a seminar,
I received a direct e-mail with several
attachments from a reader who likes the
book and thought the z-figures were really
helpful. He then offers up his own vision
of how he would like to wire the airplane
hoping for a few hours of my time to do
critical design review.
What he proposes will offer precisely
the functionality he is striving for but
ignores the thought processes that go into
minimum parts count, low cost of ownership,
optimum performance design based on the
histories for failures and their potential
consequences.
It's much more useful application of
your and my time to ask first how some
potentially ignored failure mode or missing
operational feature can be handled with a
modification to a z-figure.
One the all eggs are broken and scrambled,
the recipe is now yours to cook and savor
with all it's new features. In these
situations, it goes to individual taste
at the expense of the science and logic.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that
changes are bad or that the z-figures
are "golden". I'm only saying that
these recipes for success are refined
over years of consideration at the
operations and fabrication level. Proposed
change may well be the next step forward but
these are best accomplished incrementally.
One step at a time and with lots of eyes
and gray-matter pondering the consequences
both intended and unintended.
I hope that none of you feels that you've
waded into the tar pit and that years of
experience would save you from potential
hazards. Know that some of my customers
with decades of experience are doing the
same thing. Seems that everyone with a
voltmeter and a screwdriver in hand believes
that little tweaks to a design are
intellectually satisfying or bureaucratically
prudent while offering up little risk or cost.
'Tis not so.
I'm struggling with a "simple" design
change mandated by what appears to be an
ill-informed, upper level manager that
seriously impacts failure modes, installation
effort/risk and increases costs of ownership
by $thousands$ per ship-set.
As soon as first-articles are delivered and the
consequences of their decisions become
apparent on the iron-bird, I'm going to
suggest that my services might best
be utilized elsewhere.
These experiences reinforce an observation
by one of my heros who accurately noted
that one may know a great deal and still
understand nothing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Z-19 ECU wiring question |
From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
Ken,
That is all good advice, especially about separating the coil feeds. You are right,
I can fly on 3 cylinders so that would be some measure of safety. I am still
waiting for the mfg to get back to me but I am leaning towards having separate
feeds for all three (ecu/coils/injectors). Yes, I need ALL of them to fly
but their loads vary widely and it makes sense to fuse each on appropriately.
Thanks again,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142486#142486
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation |
We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system.
Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground
power plug.
What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series?
We already have a B-D 12v charger with the following details:
110 Amp Engine Start - 40 Amp / 20 Amp / 10 Amp / 4 Amp Continuous Charge
Rates - Smart Battery Charger
Model # VEC1093DBD
3 stage, automatic, high-frequency charging technology
Microprocessor control digital diagnostics & fault codes
Spark-resistant reverse hook-up & overcharge protection
Patented vehicle alternator check & engine start feature
Automatic float mode monitoring
See it here:
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15580
ERic--
RV-10 N104EP
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:47:06 -0600
>
>
>Looking for a 24v battery charger; recommendations?
>
>Two tasks: charging & maintaining
>
>Does one charger do both well?
>
>ERic--
>RV-10 N104EP
Is your battery a "real" 24V device or a pair
of 12s in series? 24V hardware is rare compared
to 12V stuff. In fact, I'm not aware of any
24 charger/maintainers but I'm sure they're out
there. A Google search is the place to start.
If you have a pair of 12s, consider a pair of
Battery Tender like:
http://www.batteryweb.com/batterytender-detail.cfm?Model=021-0123
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpg
I've found these "in the wild" for a little
as $29 plus shipping. They recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf
You'll find a LOT of 24v battery service products
but you'll not too that their prices are not
nearly as attractive as the "wall wart" style
tenders.
Know too that Schumacher products sold at Wall
Mart are now "smart chargers". See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_WM-1562.jpg
and recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg
Their smallest models are on the order of $20
each and you don't need to pay shipping
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>
>Way off topic but I need help. My very old Dell Latitude D600 power cord
>(PA-6 type cord) just gave up the ghost!!!!
>Local stores have none.......checks of various net providers have come up
>empty. Any ideas where I might get one of theses.
Contact one or more of these guys:
http://stores.ebay.com/CSR-Technologies
http://stores.ebay.com/eTechTronix
http://stores.ebay.com/CentricPC-Store
Seems a bunch of D600's have flooded onto the
good-used/refurbished market. I've purchase two
of them recently myself. These guys are certain
to have residuals from machines broken beyond
practical repair.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation |
>
>
>We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system.
>
>Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground
>power plug.
>
>What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series?
Not practical. A 'smart' charger needs to see the
battery that it's chartered to manage. When you add
another charger in series, all bets for performance
are off.
I can sketch you the circuit for a 24v "tender"
if you wanted to build one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emrath(at)comcast.net |
Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the Dynon
Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it that
you can get. A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an expensive
way to go driven by the converter.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday
From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
serial input?
Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the
Dynon Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it
that you can get. A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an
expensive way to go driven by the converter.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday
is a n
on-issue. I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae
I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC
will be (down).
What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder
that accepts
serial input?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Radio Static Help |
From: | "ScooterF15" <jsmcgrew(at)aol.com> |
Hi,
I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric.
I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my
problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer:
I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static
on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached to a Garmin
GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not obviously uniform
like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated
with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets
progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can
not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow
associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes
listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting
my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending
ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only
affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have
a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip VOR antenna. My handheld
ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when used inside the cockpit. Also, I
have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I
have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any suggestions
for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a list of some
things I have tried with no luck.
General
-Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both at the
same time)
--So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
Antenna/Coaxial cable
-Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried
various routings to antennas)
-Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static)
--So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
Power/ground
-Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a filter
-Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference
from other wires
-Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery
-Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator
-Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected
power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit
(SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still has static
-Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray
-Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires
I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions.
Thanks.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications |
Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v?
ERic--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications |
Have a look at these:
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/24-volt/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Parlow
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications
Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v?
ERic--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | transponder recommendation |
The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall
value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
serial input?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | 24v Battery Charger |
Here's where the 24v aircraft battery charger road leads:
http://www.thebatteryminder.com/24vaircraftbatteryminder-p-76.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Radio Static Help |
From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running?
Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it
goes away.
If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a
piece...then turn off your mag in flight.
frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ScooterF15
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help
Hi,
I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that
helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can
offer:
I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio
static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is
attached to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds
random (i.e. not obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition
system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting.
The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as
throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any
received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow
associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It
makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be
affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard
time comprehending ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me.
This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no
static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF
antenna and a wingtip!
VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when
used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and
one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem,
but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse).
Any suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below
is a list of some things I have tried with no luck.
General
-Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not
both at the same time)
--So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
Antenna/Coaxial cable
-Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400
(tried various routings to antennas) -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR
antenna (great reception, still static)
--So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
Power/ground
-Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need
a filter -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce
potential interference from other wires -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads
directly to battery -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and
EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor
of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM
handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from
aircraft)-reception still has static -Ran ground wire from battery to
SL-30 tray -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft
ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor
wires
I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
Thanks.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic
noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset
mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight?
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that
helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can
offer:
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio
static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is
attached
> to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e.
not
> obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however,
it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts
around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On
takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions.
During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure
(i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to
impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as
well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have
a
> hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the
Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly
mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip!
> VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when
> used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and
one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
>
> I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem,
but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse).
Any
> suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is
a
> list of some things I have tried with no luck.
>
>
> General
> -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not
both
> at the same time)
> --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
>
> Antenna/Coaxial cable
> -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400
(tried
> various routings to antennas)
> -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static)
> --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
>
> Power/ground
> -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need
a
> filter
> -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential
interference from other wires
> -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery
> -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator
-Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft,
disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna
directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception
still
> has static
> -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray
> -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor
wires
>
>
> I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jim
> N312JE
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Frank,
I've only been flying for a year. It seems like the problem has grown worse
in the last 6 months. I just did an annual an changed out all my plugs (auto
on top / aviation on bottom).
Thanks.
Jim
In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:10:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running?
Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it
goes away.
If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a
piece...then turn off your mag in flight.
frank
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Yes, the intercom is completely clear when in flight with and without the
other 3 headsets plugged in. For most of the testing I turned my GMA-340 off so
the pilot's headset is wired directly to the SL-30 and the intercom is not
operating - this does not effect the static.
Thanks.
-Jim
In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:12:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mprather(at)spro.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic
noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset
mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight?
Regards,
Matt-
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Michel Creek wrote:
>
> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall
> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>
>
Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the
interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of
these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something
to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is
a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I
don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean,
'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation
is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous.
Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for
around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for
something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface.
Uncomplicated. EASY!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
> Christley
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>
>
>
> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>
> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>
> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
> serial input?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | transponder recommendation |
The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor for
repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase.
For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80 converter
previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the 320 does not
use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is eliminated. Cavity tubes
can be expensive to replace and generate a lot of heat. I looked at
purchasing several used KT76A transponders and they were going to run about
$900+ plus shipping. There was no telling how long any of these would run
before the cavity tube needed replacing. I estimated the cavity tube would
cost overall about $300 to replace and I would have to do that at least once
in the next five years (probably much sooner), plus I would be getting a
piece of equipment with unknown history and potentially other problems (add
more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A can be had for about $1,300 so why pay
basically the same price for a used piece of electronics with questionable
history and reliability concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up
and go fly. You will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going
forward and that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a
very basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167
Check pricing at Stark Avionics: http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm
The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the Garmin
GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles. This is
also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or new market
(with cavity tubes).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
Michel Creek wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
overall
>> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>>
>>
>Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently
disagree because:
Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >>
Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >>
Disagree this is a fatal flaw. 1) The failure rate of a robust
switch, occasionally switching zero current (in my scenario), is
vanishingly small. 2) Even if the switch fails, the Dynon and
GPS continue to run, giving me time to land. 3) If I ever intend
to be in the clouds for more than "oops, do a 180 back to not in
the clouds" then I have a 2nd Nav/Com and Xpndr on the main bus.
This gives me the ability to stay upright, navigate and,
perhaps with ATC help, land in hard IFR.
Me: << eliminates the voltage drop across the diode along with
the heat the diode generates. .. robust unit, the heat sensitive
diode is still a weak link compared to the other components >>
Bob: << But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive"
is it? Can you quantify these assertions >>
I've managed to fry many a semiconductor device in my career.
The crossover diode is a semiconductor device and thus "heat
sensitive" compared to wires, connectors, even switches, etc.
This is what I said. Robust but weak compared to other
components. Don't have numbers but have no doubt if I short out
the E-bus, the diode will melt. Do admit my aversion to the
voltage drop and power loss of the diode is a personal prejudice.
Me: << combined circuit breaker-switches instead of the acres of
breakers and separate switches >>
Bob: << Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices,
expensive and require that you build "the bus" right
on the back of a row of switches in addition to
other busses along the backs of breakers that are not
switches. >>
The AIRPAX R11 series of circuit breaker/switches I mentioned in
my 9/29/07 post have many advantages over separate circuit
breakers and switches. They are hydraulic-magnetically tripped.
This gives a more stable trip point than the thermal types we
often use. Not only are the same components (without the trip
coil) sold as a switch, they are also rated for use in life
critical medical equipment. They are mechanically simpler than
the breaker in W31_1.jpg. At $11.05 from OnlineComponents.com
they are certainly less expensive than a separate switch and
circuit breaker. Don't see how it is more onerous to build a bus
behind the row of CB/Switches than it is to build a several row
bus behind the (usually far away) CB panel and run a dozen or
more wires over to the switches. In fact, my IFR capable
Sportman has so few pure circuit breakers (5) they all fit in the
left hand subpanel, along with the master switch, ignition sw,
E-bus crossover sw, etc. This puts all my bus wiring in one
local area, the same situation as a CB panel.
My aversion to fuse blocks is an even stronger prejudice. As a
control freak, I can envision failure modes (pitch trim or fuel
transfer overload for example) where I want to deliberately
override, if only for a short while, the condition causing the
trip. This is impossible with remote access fuse blocks.
Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with
Bob's diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for
preferring an alternate approach given an internal battery backup
EFIS and GPS.
Tom Kuffel
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
The Garmin GTX-320(A - now) is a simple radio - no extra features - looks
much like the early analog King and Narco transponders. The 327 has the
gee whiz features.
I recently purchased a Narco AT165 to replace my aging/ailing AT50A. So
far, the performance seems very good. I do kind the individual knobs like
the earlier designs had.
My Varieze has a Microair T2000 which so far has been trouble free..
Doesn't address the interface coding.
Matt-
>
>
> Michel Creek wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
>> overall
>> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>>
>>
>
> Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
>
> When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the
> interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of
> these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something
> to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is
> a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I
> don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean,
> 'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation
> is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous.
>
> Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for
> around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for
> something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface.
> Uncomplicated. EASY!
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Ernest
>> Christley
>> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>>
>>
>>
>> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
>> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>>
>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
>> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
>> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
>> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
>> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
>> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
>> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
>> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
>> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>>
>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
>> serial input?
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
>
>Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently disagree
>because:
>
>Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >>
>
>Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
> of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >>
>Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with Bob's
>diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for preferring an
>alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and GPS.
>
>Tom Kuffel
Nobody here should be upset if you act upon
your own perceptions in the manner you see
fit. I certainly won't. I was asked and I
answered. There are many chefs with their
own recipes for success . . . some of whom
gather a clientele, others who may not.
I was only suggesting that alternatives
should be gauged against design goals that
strive for the desired functionality with
the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement,
fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of
ownership. Without a doubt, there are folks
who offer exceedingly robust products with
names like Airpax, TI, Cutler-Hammer, etc.
But even the mighty Potter-Brumfield came
very close to causing an expensive,
fleet-wide AD for a simple design deficiency
in the switch-breaker I cited.
My goal is to craft architectures that require
no special consideration for robustnes of
components . . . I.e, it shouldn't matter
if one buys switches at the hardware store.
We've had these discussions on different
topics . . . there'a a following of factory
fresh Nipon-Denso alternators who have
suggested it is not necessary to have absolute
control -OR- O.V. protection. Faith in these
products just might be justified. I
have no personal knowledge or experience
to reinforce those notions but I have strong
anecdotal information that suggests the faith
is unfounded. Nor do I want to recommend
that all my readers go out and buy factory
fresh, ND, Airpax, TI, or any other brand.
My design goals strive to craft a system
that is failure-tolerant for components
that may not have the robustness of those
upper-crust devices that some folks choose
to champion and recommend.
I fully understand the creative juices
that flow when one launches into so grand
a dream as crafting one's own airplane.
They're called "experimental" and they
can and should be viewed in this light.
This isn't about people my friend, it's
about ideas. It has been suggested that
diodes are somehow fragile and switches
are perhaps sufficiently robust to
offset a diode's shortcomings.
I'd be pleased to know the simple
ideas that support these assertions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
Bob,
<< alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and
GPS. >>
<< alternatives
should be gauged against design goals that
strive for the desired functionality with
the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement,
fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of
ownership. >>
And fewer components don't address these goals?
<< My goal is to craft architectures that require
no special consideration for robustnes of
components >>
And the crossover diode doesn't have to be robust compared to
regular diodes?
<< It has been suggested that
diodes are somehow fragile and switches
are perhaps sufficiently robust to
offset a diode's shortcomings.
I'd be pleased to know the simple
ideas that support these assertions. >>
No, I am suggesting no diode at all is more robust than any diode
and its attendant wiring. Would agree the single point failure
of the suggested change would be unacceptable if it weren't for
the internal batteries on the EFIS and GPS. But given the
premise, don't see how the change violates the goals of less
cost, simpler design, simpler installation, less maintenance and
reasonable fault tolerance (if you do have to shut down the main
bus your exposure to single point failure is the same with either
setup, perhaps less since the rare but additional possibility of
a shorted diode doesn't exist when it's omitted).
Tom Kuffel
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000 rpm upwards,
and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an older battery,
letting transient noise into the DC bus?
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142691#142691
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Radio Static Help |
10/30/2007
Hello Scooter, You wrote: "I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd
be happy to hear any suggestions."
Try going to the System mode and play around with the squelch adjustments.
Please let us know how you finally solve this problem.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help
From: "ScooterF15" <jsmcgrew(at)aol.com>
Hi,
I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric.
I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my
problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer:
--------- BIG SKIP -----------------------------------
I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
Thanks.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
I have an alternator over voltage protection setup with an alternator
solenoid which will open when the alternator field circuit breaker pops. I think
I've ruled out a regulator problem since the static continues after I pull the
alt field c/b; is that a bad assumption?
-Jim
In a message dated 10/30/2007 2:41:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jetboy"
Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000
rpm upwards, and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an older
battery, letting transient noise into the DC bus?
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | transponder recommendation |
If you just buy the 330 you can plug the Dynon in directly and have TIS
too! Forget all the conversion stuff. It even displays the interrogated
altitude and provides audible alerts when you slip off your desired
altitude. To boot you get an S mode. Yup, it cost a little over 3k, but
then you really have a nice unit.
If I had the option, I would have two of them. I find transponders are
like step children - the most often forgotten part of the panel, but too
often the one piece of equipment providing the most grief when working
with ATC.
N... Please squawk again, N... Please squall again. N... Would you
please re-cycle your transponder, Sorry center I think I should re-cycle
my transponder blah blah and on and on. Naturally this only happens when
you and ATC are very busy.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michel Creek
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
-->
The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor
for repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase.
For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80
converter previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the
320 does not use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is
eliminated. Cavity tubes can be expensive to replace and generate a lot
of heat. I looked at purchasing several used KT76A transponders and
they were going to run about $900+ plus shipping. There was no telling
how long any of these would run before the cavity tube needed replacing.
I estimated the cavity tube would cost overall about $300 to replace and
I would have to do that at least once in the next five years (probably
much sooner), plus I would be getting a piece of equipment with unknown
history and potentially other problems (add more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A
can be had for about $1,300 so why pay basically the same price for a
used piece of electronics with questionable history and reliability
concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up and go fly. You
will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going forward and
that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a very
basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167
Check pricing at Stark Avionics:
http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm
The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the
Garmin GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles.
This is also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or
new market (with cavity tubes).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
Michel Creek wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
overall
>> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>>
>>
>Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
I'd check spark plug wires.
need ones with considerable inductance (spiral wound) to surpress HV RFI
bobf
On 10/30/07, JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have an alternator over voltage protection setup with an alternator
> solenoid which will open when the alternator field circuit breaker pops. I
> think I've ruled out a regulator problem since the static continues after I
> pull the alt field c/b; is that a bad assumption?
>
> -Jim
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2007 2:41:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:
>
>
> Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000
> rpm upwards, and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an
> older battery, letting transient noise into the DC bus?
>
> Ralph
>
> --------
> Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
>
>
> ------------------------------
> See what's new at ww.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170<http://ww.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>"
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John McMahon" <blackoaks(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
I agree, if you plan on flying much IFR, dual transponders are really nice
touch, and for what you pay for the 330 you can have dual 327s. Just a
thought if having TIS isn't important to you for your planned operations.
On 10/30/07, longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
>
>
> If you just buy the 330 you can plug the Dynon in directly and have TIS
> too! Forget all the conversion stuff. It even displays the interrogated
> altitude and provides audible alerts when you slip off your desired
> altitude. To boot you get an S mode. Yup, it cost a little over 3k, but
> then you really have a nice unit.
>
> If I had the option, I would have two of them. I find transponders are
> like step children - the most often forgotten part of the panel, but too
> often the one piece of equipment providing the most grief when working
> with ATC.
>
> N... Please squawk again, N... Please squall again. N... Would you
> please re-cycle your transponder, Sorry center I think I should re-cycle
> my transponder blah blah and on and on. Naturally this only happens when
> you and ATC are very busy.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Creek
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:47 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>
>
> -->
>
> The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor
> for repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase.
>
> For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80
> converter previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the
> 320 does not use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is
> eliminated. Cavity tubes can be expensive to replace and generate a lot
> of heat. I looked at purchasing several used KT76A transponders and
> they were going to run about $900+ plus shipping. There was no telling
> how long any of these would run before the cavity tube needed replacing.
> I estimated the cavity tube would cost overall about $300 to replace and
> I would have to do that at least once in the next five years (probably
> much sooner), plus I would be getting a piece of equipment with unknown
> history and potentially other problems (add more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A
> can be had for about $1,300 so why pay basically the same price for a
> used piece of electronics with questionable history and reliability
> concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up and go fly. You
> will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going forward and
> that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a very
> basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See
> https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167
>
> Check pricing at Stark Avionics:
> http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm
>
> The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the
> Garmin GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles.
> This is also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or
> new market (with cavity tubes).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>
>
>
> Michel Creek wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
> overall
> >> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
> >>
> >>
>
> >Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
>
>
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jesse Jenks <jessejenks(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 10/29/07 |
When using the encoder feature of an EFIS system like Dynon, How difficult
/practical is it to get the required 24 month transponder check from a cert
ified shop? Do they know how to deal with these experimental systems?
Thanks
Jesse
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble
challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc
t
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Radio Static Help |
From: | "Miskelly, Francis G" <f.miskelly(at)imperial.ac.uk> |
I had an exactly identical problem with a KX155. There was a thread on
it several months ago
Eventually found it was the intercom picking up ignition noise. To
diagnose it i had to remove the intercom pin from the back of the radio.
Most, but not all, of the noise disappeared. Just working on one headset
without removing the intercom pin-out still gave the problem. Solved it
by installing an external intercom.
- Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Matt
Prather
Sent: Mon 29/10/2007 22:09
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like
acoustic
noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset
mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight?
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that
helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can
offer:
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with
radio
static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is
attached
> to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e.
not
> obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system),
however,
it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts
around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On
takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions.
During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure
(i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to
impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as
well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have
a
> hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting
the
Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly
mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip!
> VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static
when
> used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag
and
one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
>
> I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this
problem,
but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse).
Any
> suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below
is
a
> list of some things I have tried with no luck.
>
>
> General
> -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not
both
> at the same time)
> --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
>
> Antenna/Coaxial cable
> -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400
(tried
> various routings to antennas)
> -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static)
> --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
>
> Power/ground
> -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need
a
> filter
> -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential
interference from other wires
> -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery
> -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator
-Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft,
disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna
directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception
still
> has static
> -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray
> -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor
wires
>
>
> I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jim
> N312JE
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
Subject: | Wig Wag and keep warm |
Bob,
When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs, can
I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so would this
just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some light gauge wire
(say 22 awg)?
If not, can you suggest a better alternative?
Thanks
Bevan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag and keep warm |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs, can
>I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so would this
>just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some light gauge wire
>(say 22 awg)?
>
>If not, can you suggest a better alternative?
>
>Thanks
Keepwarm is not necessary/useful for halogen lamps.
They take so long to cool down that after the first
turn-on, the inrush for successive flashes of the
wigwag is insignificantly higher than normal
operating current.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | For Sale BMA EFIS One |
New Dual Screen BMA EFIS/One Version 3 for Sale!!!
Upgrade to an Electronic Cockpit.
Everything you could want in a single package EFIS. True A/S, True Course,
Built in GPS, Ground Speed, Solid State Internal Platform, Moving Map
Display with Terrain Elevation. Includes user programmable full engine
monitoring, fuel flow, individual CHT's, EGT's and more. Reduce cockpit
clutter. Accepts outside nav inputs, such as the Garmin SL-30.
A $16,000+ Value for Thousands Less!
Asking $10,900.
Giff Marr
817-223-9671 (Cell)
817-306-9592
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
Subject: | Wig Wag and keep warm |
Bob,
OK, very good to know and easy to implement. Thank you very much.
Bevan
RV7A wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig Wag and keep warm
-->
>-->
>
>
>Bob,
>
>When using the B&C SSF-1 wigwag flasher with two 100watt Halogen bulbs,
>can I add a keep warm circuit in parallel with the flasher? If so
>would this just consist of a nominal resistor (say 1K ohm) and some
>light gauge wire (say 22 awg)?
>
>If not, can you suggest a better alternative?
>
>Thanks
Keepwarm is not necessary/useful for halogen lamps.
They take so long to cool down that after the first
turn-on, the inrush for successive flashes of the
wigwag is insignificantly higher than normal
operating current.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | For Sale BMA EFIS One |
I am using the BMA EFIS One Gen 3.
If you have specific questions drop me an email.
ERic--
RV-10 N104EP
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:18:19 -0500
New Dual Screen BMA EFIS/One Version 3 for Sale!!!
Upgrade to an Electronic Cockpit.
Everything you could want in a single package EFIS. True A/S, True Course,
Built in GPS, Ground Speed, Solid State Internal Platform, Moving Map
Display with Terrain Elevation. Includes user programmable full engine
monitoring, fuel flow, individual CHT's, EGT's and more. Reduce cockpit
clutter. Accepts outside nav inputs, such as the Garmin SL-30.
A $16,000+ Value for Thousands Less!
Asking $10,900.
Giff Marr
817-223-9671 (Cell)
817-306-9592
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Merlin" <phil.merlin(at)skynet.be> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from
http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting...
Philippe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald J Smith" <donaldjsmith(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Have you consider the HT leads to the plugs - say breakdown of
insulation/suppression. Use to get this sort of fault in the old days
on cars. Might be temp. related. Suggest replacing all HT side of
ignition system.
Donald
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help
Frank,
I've only been flying for a year. It seems like the problem has grown
worse in the last 6 months. I just did an annual an changed out all my
plugs (auto on top / aviation on bottom).
Thanks.
Jim
In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:10:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
(Corvallis)"
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours
running?
Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs
and it
goes away.
If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a
$1.20 a
piece...then turn off your mag in flight.
frank
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new at AOL.com and
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald J Smith" <donaldjsmith(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
3D----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C --
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
Subject: | transponder recommendation |
3D----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Merlin wrote:
> For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from
> http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting...
>
> Philippe
Interesting. But is there anyplace you can see the price of one?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tony Cann" <tonycann(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag and keep warm |
Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety aspect)?
Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct circuit?
Thanks
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>
>
> Merlin wrote:
>> For Europe, there is also the mode S TT31 from
>> http://www.trig-avionics.com/, which seems very interesting...
>> Philippe
> Interesting. But is there anyplace you can see the price of one?
On the bottom of the actual product announcement page:
"The TT31 is available from dealers across Europe now. Typical selling price
is around 1,750 (?2650) plus VAT."
The Filser TRT800 is about ?1850 including VAT.
The Becker BXP6401 can be ordered online for about ?2650 including VAT.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! |
Dear Listers,
You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam
from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example:
The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com
The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com
The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search
This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about
the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising!
But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and
a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet
connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising
to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and
every time you read an email message or browse the their web site.
Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment,
I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support
the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be
possible!
During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few
days and I ask for your patience and understanding during the month throughout
these regular messages. Think of them as PBS' Pledge Breaks... :-)
To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented
a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If
you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online
web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser!
There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies
to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the
messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however,
once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund
Raiser for the rest of the month. For Contributions by check, the squelch
will take effect once the check is received.
There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When
you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts
that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through
the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including:
Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to
offer and are generously supporting the Matronics List Fund Raiser.
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. From the Contribution
site, you can select any one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount. The Contribution page is pretty loooonnnnng this year
in order to list great selection of great gifts available so be sure to scroll
all the way to the bottom of the web page to see everything that's available!
Please make a List Support Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions
truely keep this operation afloat!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag and keep warm |
>Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety
>aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct circuit?
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Tony
Temperature cycling by flashing any incandescent lamp
shortens service life . . . but then, using a drill
bit to drill holes also dulls the cutting edges;
drilling steel as opposed to wood makes for fewer
nice holes.
The halogen lamps are MUCH more robust than their
ancestors, hence a lot more tolerant of vibration
and operating cycles. I think it likely that
most owner/operators of halogen fitted aircraft
will operate the same bulbs for the lifetime of
the airplane.
If using the Wig-Wag system by any supplier is
a demonstrable reduction of in-flight risks, then
I'll suggest concerns for service life become
insignificant. Any Wig-Wag system including the
SSF-1 flasher from B&C is worthy of consideration.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One |
From: | "N395V" <airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com> |
A new Gen $ EFIS 2 (slightly smaller version of the EFIS 1) can be had for $9000
You may wish to lower your price a bit.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143186#143186
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag and keep warm |
Tony Cann wrote:
>
> Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety
> aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the correct
> circuit?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
Actually, there can be, depending on how it's done.
The halogen works by getting a tungsten filament to glow. Part of the
filament turns to a gas within the bulb, and will settle on the inside
of the glass when the bulb is powered off. The next time the bulb is
turned on, the filament gets hot enough to burn the layer of deposit off
the glass (turning it back into a gas). If you continuously turn it on
without letting it warm to operating temperature, the deposit layer gets
thicker and thicker. The bulb will get darker and darker, and the fix
is simply to let the bulb come up to operating temps. The burn off
process can take a while if the bulb has been abused in this way.
OTOH, there's not point in doing this to a halogen bulb. The filament
in a normal bulb is a very fine wire, that breaks easily and vibrates
like mad. The filament in a halogen is a chunk of tungsten. You're
more likely to break the glass bulb than the filament.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Wig Wag and keep warm |
I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my lamps to
come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the internal
electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I doubled the value
of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the inrush current limiters
(ntc thermistors) that I have in series with the lighting circuits.
Vern Little
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Wig Wag and keep warm |
>
>
>I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my lamps to
>come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the internal
>electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I doubled the value
>of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the inrush current limiters
>(ntc thermistors) that I have in series with the lighting circuits.
Good data point Vern. I'd heard that before
but without specifics as to what the builder
did about it. I think he pitched the SSF-1 flasher
and substituted something else.
I don't think inrush limiters would affect timing
on this device . . . but it's certain that the
inrush limiters have more to do with mitigating
initial turn-on glitches to the bus than for
extending bulb life.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
>I know this is an odd request, however, I am a high school electronics
>teacher by day and a plane builder by night :>) I thought this might be
>a good place to ask if any of you electronics tinkerers might
>have crystal radio sets jammed into the back of a closet that you would
>like to get rid of. I am trying to round up about 50 of them or the
>components. The difficult part to find in quantity is the variable air
>capacitors (365pfd or close). My e-mail is
>dan at azshowersolutions dot com
>Thanks,
>I live in Mesa, AZ
>Dan
Dan, I'm working on a basic electronics course
that will start with some hands-on activities
that not only explore the simple-ideas of physics
but the practical hands-on ideas for fabrication.
I've discovered a company at
http://tubesandmore.com/
who offers some interesting products:
The B-851 book entitled "The Voice of the Crystal"
by Friedrichs. It offers ways to make things work
without going to the electronics parts store.
The other item of interest is a surplus
C-VW4450 6-gang air variable designed for specific
application in an AM/FM radio. The TOTAL capacitance
of sections combined is about 430 pF. Single
unit price is $2.95 but they say they have a
LOT of them. I've ordered 10 pcs and will let
you know how they look. You might be able to
negotiate a better price for quantities. Best
yet, it has a geared down drive shaft built in.
REALLY good value for the performance. The
smaller sections might figure in a crystal set
or one-tube design for short wave.
Also, take a peek at C-VT250 compression trimmer
that goes up to 250 pF. This is small and would
cover a major portion of the BC band. One could
include a switch that kicks in an extra 100pf
for the bottom end.
Finally, take a peek at item 330181321066
on Ebay. I have one of these and the workmanship
is superb. I'm going to use it in a classroom demo
for both crystal sets and a one-tube radio.
It wouldn't surprise me if the book cited above
doesn't talk about spider-web coil winding. You
can find Litz wire on ebay and other sources.
You could build a form for duplicating the
craftsmanship offered by the ebay guy.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wig Wag and keep warm |
My 35 watt halogens are still happily wagging at 140 hours which is one
cent per hour bulb cost even if they both quit on the next flight. I
haven't checked them for tungsten deposit darkening recently but I do
know a very particular person who replaces automotive halogen headlights
every year or two because of darkening. I've never found it to be much
of an issue, even on a car that uses a resistor to reduce the current in
the daytime, but measurements might tell a better story. FWIW my opinion
is that thermistor inrush current limiters reduce maximum brightness
enough that I avoid them with halogens since these bulbs have much
extended lives anyway compared to the old 320 hour automotive sealed
beams. I won't purchase extended life household incandescents either
(except for locations with difficult access) as they increase the total
cost per lumen significantly due to less efficiency.
Ken
Ernest Christley wrote:
>
>
> Tony Cann wrote:
>
>>
>> Is there any harm in wig-wagging halogen lamps (for the safety
>> aspect)? Does it shorten lamp life? If not, is the SSF-1 the
>> correct circuit?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tony
>>
> Actually, there can be, depending on how it's done.
>
> The halogen works by getting a tungsten filament to glow. Part of the
> filament turns to a gas within the bulb, and will settle on the inside
> of the glass when the bulb is powered off. The next time the bulb is
> turned on, the filament gets hot enough to burn the layer of deposit
> off the glass (turning it back into a gas). If you continuously turn
> it on without letting it warm to operating temperature, the deposit
> layer gets thicker and thicker. The bulb will get darker and darker,
> and the fix is simply to let the bulb come up to operating temps. The
> burn off process can take a while if the bulb has been abused in this
> way.
>
> OTOH, there's not point in doing this to a halogen bulb. The filament
> in a normal bulb is a very fine wire, that breaks easily and vibrates
> like mad. The filament in a halogen is a chunk of tungsten. You're
> more likely to break the glass bulb than the filament.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as it looks
like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently finishing
up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson here on the list
they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole box of various sizes.
We were out today on the football field and found 4 radios that worked...quite
faint...but it was enough to get them worked up. We are going to build a one
or two transistor amp to add to them. That will get them into making a PCB.
Thanks again, Dan Billingsley
Building a Kitfox-IV
http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>I know this is an odd request, however, I am a high school electronics
>teacher by day and a plane builder by night :>) I thought this might be
>a good place to ask if any of you electronics tinkerers might
>have crystal radio sets jammed into the back of a closet that you would
>like to get rid of. I am trying to round up about 50 of them or the
>components. The difficult part to find in quantity is the variable air
>capacitors (365pfd or close). My e-mail is
>dan at azshowersolutions dot com
>Thanks,
>I live in Mesa, AZ
>Dan
Dan, I'm working on a basic electronics course
that will start with some hands-on activities
that not only explore the simple-ideas of physics
but the practical hands-on ideas for fabrication.
I've discovered a company at
http://tubesandmore.com/
who offers some interesting products:
The B-851 book entitled "The Voice of the Crystal"
by Friedrichs. It offers ways to make things work
without going to the electronics parts store.
The other item of interest is a surplus
C-VW4450 6-gang air variable designed for specific
application in an AM/FM radio. The TOTAL capacitance
of sections combined is about 430 pF. Single
unit price is $2.95 but they say they have a
LOT of them. I've ordered 10 pcs and will let
you know how they look. You might be able to
negotiate a better price for quantities. Best
yet, it has a geared down drive shaft built in.
REALLY good value for the performance. The
smaller sections might figure in a crystal set
or one-tube design for short wave.
Also, take a peek at C-VT250 compression trimmer
that goes up to 250 pF. This is small and would
cover a major portion of the BC band. One could
include a switch that kicks in an extra 100pf
for the bottom end.
Finally, take a peek at item 330181321066
on Ebay. I have one of these and the workmanship
is superb. I'm going to use it in a classroom demo
for both crystal sets and a one-tube radio.
It wouldn't surprise me if the book cited above
doesn't talk about spider-web coil winding. You
can find Litz wire on ebay and other sources.
You could build a form for duplicating the
craftsmanship offered by the ebay guy.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
>Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as
>it looks like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently
>finishing up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson
>here on the list they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole
>box of various sizes. We were out today on the football field and found 4
>radios that worked...quite faint...but it was enough to get them worked
>up. We are going to build a one or two transistor amp to add to them. That
>will get them into making a PCB. Thanks again, Dan Billingsley
>Building a Kitfox-IV
><http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html>http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html
I've ordered one too. I've been 'building' since
the 4th grade when I listened to Ike's election
returns on the first crystal set I built from
a kit.
I've nearly always lived near Wichita's 5KW
AM station . . . easy to get strong signals,
hard to get anyone else. I've inherited a house
from my father in Medicine Lodge, KS . . . lots
of miles from any AM BC station. I've become
interested in seeing what can be heard from afar
with a reasonable antenna system and high
Q tuning.
I purchased some 6418 vacuum tubes . . . See:
http://www.schmarder.com/radios/tube/6418.htm
I'm in the process of packaging the 6418
circuitry into one of my standard product
packages. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/A15_Package.jpg
Everything but batteries, regen pot, tuning
caps and inductors will be in this package.
The BIG variability in performance is configuration
of tuning sections/antenna. I thought it would
be useful to have the constants packaged in
a robust module that allows fast,
low-risk assembly of the variables.
If you'd like one of these modules
to play with, I'll send you one when
they're done.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Marty and all,
We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be
helpftul.
I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the power/data
chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio panel. Seemed
like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the power/data chord.
Audio jack, yes, data chord, no.
Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm speaker.
I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and reading the
back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W.
The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input.
Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio coming
out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have a 1/8"
audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as "Voice
+" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not even to
bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation mode. It
did not exist.
Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter
plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. The
speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the
Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect.
With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to the
power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is nice,
because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio jack
into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get
muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about
those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the
background...
Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the
power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8
ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if
that will work? How do I wire it?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
I'd try one half the transformer. use the center tap for ground and one of
the other ones. that would be 500 ohms. - pretty dang close
bobf
On 11/2/07, Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> Marty and all,
>
> We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be
> helpftul.
>
> I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the
> power/data chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio
> panel. Seemed like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the
> power/data chord. Audio jack, yes, data chord, no.
>
> Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm
> speaker. I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and
> reading the back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W.
>
> The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input.
>
> Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio
> coming out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have
> a 1/8" audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as
> "Voice +" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not
> even to bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation
> mode. It did not exist.
>
> Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V
> adapter plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain.
> The speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of
> the Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect.
>
> With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to
> the power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is
> nice, because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio
> jack into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get
> muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about
> those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the
> background...
>
> Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the
> power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8
> ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if
> that will work? How do I wire it?
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
Robert,
Sounds like you were hooked at quite a young age. Something about the radio sets
that is still magic to me...easy to get the high school kids fired up.
The site for Dave's Radios looks good. Have you built one of them using the 6418
tube? I would certainly like to try out your module when they are finished.
Thanks again,
Dan
11434 E Portal Ave
Mesa, AZ 85212
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>Robert, Thanks a bunch for the info...I ordered the book you mentioned as
>it looks like a kick to try and make our own stuff. The kids are currently
>finishing up their first attempts at crystal radios. Thanks to Ed Larson
>here on the list they have variablle caps to tie in. He sent me a whole
>box of various sizes. We were out today on the football field and found 4
>radios that worked...quite faint...but it was enough to get them worked
>up. We are going to build a one or two transistor amp to add to them. That
>will get them into making a PCB. Thanks again, Dan Billingsley
>Building a Kitfox-IV
>http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html
I've ordered one too. I've been 'building' since
the 4th grade when I listened to Ike's election
returns on the first crystal set I built from
a kit.
I've nearly always lived near Wichita's 5KW
AM station . . . easy to get strong signals,
hard to get anyone else. I've inherited a house
from my father in Medicine Lodge, KS . . . lots
of miles from any AM BC station. I've become
interested in seeing what can be heard from afar
with a reasonable antenna system and high
Q tuning.
I purchased some 6418 vacuum tubes . . . See:
http://www.schmarder.com/radios/tube/6418.htm
I'm in the process of packaging the 6418
circuitry into one of my standard product
packages. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/A15_Package.jpg
Everything but batteries, regen pot, tuning
caps and inductors will be in this package.
The BIG variability in performance is configuration
of tuning sections/antenna. I thought it would
be useful to have the constants packaged in
a robust module that allows fast,
low-risk assembly of the variables.
If you'd like one of these modules
to play with, I'll send you one when
they're done.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One |
From: | "Roger Bentlage" <bentlage(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I am selling a new (installed and works fine but never flown) BMA EFIS One, no
engine sensors, for $5,500.
Roger
242-535-7121
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143355#143355
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/instrument_panel_2_1_664.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emrath(at)comcast.net |
Dave, thanks for your interest in this, I hope there is a solution. Like you,
the thought of the warnings being muted by virtue of using the music jack to audio
input on the GMA340 is not to my liking either.
Marty
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio
Marty and all,
We learned a bunch today about audio out from the Garmin 496 that could be
helpftul.
I had a harness built by Stark to allow me to put audio from the power/data
chord from a 2/3/496 into unswitched audio in my GMA340 audio panel. Seemed
like a simple thing, but we never got any audio from the power/data chord.
Audio jack, yes, data chord, no.
Turns out the audio from the power/data cable is to drive an 8 ohm speaker.
I learned that by taking apart a Garmin 12V adapter/speaker and reading the
back of the $.05 speaker inside: Made in China, 8 Ohms, 2/3W.
The audio panel was looking for a 600 ohm input.
Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio coming
out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s have a 1/8"
audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well as "Voice
+" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin said not even to
bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in aviation mode. It
did not exist.
Well, it does exist because it plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter
plugged in. I put the unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. The
speaker gives every warning you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the
Setup menu controls the audio as you would expect.
With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the XM audio is turned off to the
power/data chord but all the warnings still come through. Which is nice,
because if you wire the unit per Garmin's advice, and run the audio jack
into the music input of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get
muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about
those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the
background...
Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the
power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8
ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if
that will work? How do I wire it?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Dave, thanks for your interest in this, I hope there is a solution.
Like you, the thought of the warnings being muted by virtue of using the music
jack to audio input on the GMA340 is not to my liking either.
Marty
0 ohm
input.
Interestingly, Garmin told told both John and me that the only audio
coming
out of the 496, in aviation mode, was from the audio jack(3/496s
have a 1/8"
audio jack, which outputs XM audio, and all the warnings, as well
as "Voice
+" and "Voice -" wires in the power/data cable). Garmin
said not even to
bother trying to get audio from the Voice wires while in
aviation mode. It
did not exist.
Well, it does exist because it
plays just fine with the speaker/12V adapter
plugged in. I put the
unit in sim mode and flew into a mountain. The
speaker gives every warning
you would expect, and the "Sound" page of the
Setup menu controls the
audio as you would expect.
With a jack inserted into the audio plug, the
XM audio is turned off to the
power/data chord but all the warnings still
come through. Which is nice,
because if you wire the unit per Garmin's
advice, and run the audio jack
into the music
input
of the audio panel, your terrain warnings will get
muted by intercom activity or incoming transmissions. I want to know about
those pesky mountains, even if it interupts music playing in the
background...
Now my problem is to figure out how to convert the 8 ohm signal from the
power/data chord to 600 ohms. I guess I need a transformer. I found a 8
ohm to 1000 ohm, with center tap, at radio shack...can anyone tell me if
that will work? How do I wire it?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Giffen Marr" <GAMarr(at)charter.net> |
Subject: | Re: For Sale BMA EFIS One |
Your absolutely right, however this new BMA EFIS/One Ver 3 has the second
screen, which is a $3000 option for a new the EFIS/0ne Gen 4 and $2600 for
the smaller EFIS 2. Still a good savings over the current versions. Make me
an offer.
Giffen Marr
817-306-9592
617-223-9671 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Wig Wag and keep warm |
Thanks Bob.
I put the inrush limiters in circuit as a switch saver as opposed to a lamp
saver. I've had two Carling switch failures in the first 100 hours-- one
Master Switch and the other in my Strobe circuit. The Master had loose
rivets that hold the fast-on tabs, while the Strobe switch (which also had a
loose rivet) overheated and cooked one terminal. Switch resistance had
increased significantly, and I believe the Strobe PSU draws more current at
lower voltages, leading to a thermal runaway in the switch.
Since then, I've inspected all of my switches for loose rivets and put the
inrush current limiters on the landing/taxi lights. I did return one of the
switches to the vendor but never heard back with a failure analysis.
The inrush limiters don't have much effect on maximum lamp brightness, but
slowing the wig-wag flasher down sure did.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: November 1, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig Wag and keep warm
-->
>
>
>I found that the flash rate of the SSF-1 was a bit too fast for my
>lamps to come up to full brightness. It's a simple mod to replace the
>internal electrolytic capacitor with one of higher value (I think I
>doubled the value of mine). My issue may have been exacerbated by the
>inrush current limiters (ntc thermistors) that I have in series with
>the lighting circuits.
Good data point Vern. I'd heard that before
but without specifics as to what the builder
did about it. I think he pitched the SSF-1 flasher
and substituted something else.
I don't think inrush limiters would affect timing
on this device . . . but it's certain that the
inrush limiters have more to do with mitigating
initial turn-on glitches to the bus than for
extending bulb life.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
You guys...Darned I've spent half a day Googling Xtal sets.
A MUST SEE: http://www.wynterarchtops.com/radios/index.htm
I hate to see anyone build a crystal set and cheap-out by buying the variable capacitor.
There's no magic in capacitors. A roll of foil and some scissors will
make one in a pinch. There is a long history of capacitors in strange forms.
And if it doesn't have a cat's whisker and a galena crystal....shame on you.
One of my pet projects (after I finish the Glastar....) is to build crytal sets
along the lines of a Captain Nemo fantasy. It is entirely possible to build a
an AM radio receiver using nothing you couldn't buy in AD 1200.
"Inventor: A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs,
and believes it civilization."
--Ambrose Bierce
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143432#143432
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob, and all,
I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am
going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully
asking all the right questions.
I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The
electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this
list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a
single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign.
DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the
Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot
controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate
schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed
for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I
have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries
after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi
II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage
sags and surges.
Here is my question.
After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the
alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp
current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way
solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus
terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2
volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path.
So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are
already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together?
The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be
minimal.
Thanks,
Terry Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Final Review |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Going from 12V to 14V absolutely won't hurt the avionics. It also doesn't
sound to me like the operation should cause any significant inductive kick
which would lead to a high power voltage excursion.
Consider that with the bus loaded (at least on some systems), if the
engine is brought to idle RPM, the bus voltage may sag significantly below
14V. Increasing the RPM or reducing the bus load will increase the
voltage back to the regulator setup.
DO160 (the standard to which Avionics manufacturers should design their
products) allows for much larger swings than this..
Regards,
Matt-
> Bob, and all,
>
> I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am
> going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and
> hopefully
> asking all the right questions.
>
> I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The
> electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this
> list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a
> single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign.
>
> DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the
> Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot
> controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate
> schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors
> closed
> for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point.
> I
> have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries
> after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak
> Digi
> II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage
> sags and surges.
>
> Here is my question.
>
> After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the
> alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp
> current limiter) up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two
> way
> solid state "bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus
> terminal blocks. This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2
> volts and will serve as my DC2 charge wire path.
>
> So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are
> already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system
> together?
> The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to
> be
> minimal.
>
> Thanks,
> Terry Miles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net> |
Very useful information! I am currently wiring the 496 audio/warning output
into the "music" jack of the PS4000 audio-panel. Does one tie the "voice+"
and "warning" wires together into the "tip" terminal, and the "voice -" to
the other?
Thanks,
Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
Subject: | Re: Final Review |
Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the
engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down? Leave it
all off til stable then turn on the avionics master. If you are worrying
about unstable voltage with an air restart, you have bigger problems than
whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about
10 secs in a Cozy)
bobf
On 11/2/07, Terry Miles wrote:
>
> Bob, and all,
>
>
> I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am going
thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully asking
all the right questions.
>
>
> I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The electrical
design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this list. Thanks
for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a single alternator
(B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign.
>
>
> DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the Avionics/Essential
bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot controlled on/off
switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate schokey diodes. In normal
ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed for start. Electrically
the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I have a 40 amp relay that
is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries after the engine is started.
I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon
I to protect from starting circuit voltage sags and surges.
>
>
> Here is my question.
>
>
> After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the alternator
field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp current limiter)
up to a nominal 14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way solid state
"bus tie" relay which sits electrically between the two bus terminal blocks.
This will bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 volts and will serve as
my DC2 charge wire path.
>
>
> So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are already
on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together? The
amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be minimal.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Terry Miles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Final Review |
Robert Feldtman a crit :
> Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the
> engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down?
Robert,
Some installation have an EFIS to monitor engine or system parameters :
voltage, RPM, oil pressure, temperatures, etc...
I would be reluctant to wait for the *voltage* to be stable before
having any indication of revolutions or oil pressure at engine start.
Switching everything down for starting or shutting the engine is an old
habit from sooo long ago.
> whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about
> 10 secs in a Cozy)
>
I've just spent two days flying an airplane with a moving map GPS. This
poorly engineered device kept resetting any time the voltage was
sagging, when maneuvering the flaps on the ground, for instance.
A real nuisance. BTW, 10 seconds seems a bit long in flight.
On the other hand the little Dynon, or the Enigma are rock stable
whatever the usual voltage variation....
Correctly designed aviation electronic devices are impervious to
ordinary voltage fluctuations.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB Crystal Radio |
Eric, Tom has some interesting stuff going on with his projects.
Dan
"Eric M. Jones" wrote:
You guys...Darned I've spent half a day Googling Xtal sets.
A MUST SEE: http://www.wynterarchtops.com/radios/index.htm
I hate to see anyone build a crystal set and cheap-out by buying the variable capacitor.
There's no magic in capacitors. A roll of foil and some scissors will
make one in a pinch. There is a long history of capacitors in strange forms.
And if it doesn't have a cat's whisker and a galena crystal....shame on you.
One of my pet projects (after I finish the Glastar....) is to build crytal sets
along the lines of a Captain Nemo fantasy. It is entirely possible to build a
an AM radio receiver using nothing you couldn't buy in AD 1200.
"Inventor: A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs,
and believes it civilization."
--Ambrose Bierce
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143432#143432
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Gilles,
Can you tell us the make and model of the flakey EFIS, and a little more
about the circumstances?
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Final Review
I've just spent two days flying an airplane with a moving map GPS. This
poorly engineered device kept resetting any time the voltage was
sagging, when maneuvering the flaps on the ground, for instance.
A real nuisance. BTW, 10 seconds seems a bit long in flight.
On the other hand the little Dynon, or the Enigma are rock stable
whatever the usual voltage variation....
Correctly designed aviation electronic devices are impervious to
ordinary voltage fluctuations.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles(at)hotmail.com> |
Matt: Thanks for the input. I appreciate that.
Bob: I have separate electrical power sources and bus isolation capability.
I deliberately designed a system so I could possibly do GPS flight planning
activity prior to engine start and not need to shut it all off just for
engine starter loads.or monitoring ATC with gate holds. I didn't follow
your comment on airstarts. In that event, with any prop rotation at all you
don't need to engage the starter.
Terry
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Feldtman
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Final Review
Simple question - why does anyone have their avionics "ON" when starting the
engine, or the alternator for that matter - or when shutting down? Leave it
all off til stable then turn on the avionics master. If you are worrying
about unstable voltage with an air restart, you have bigger problems than
whteher the EFIS comes back up quick (it does, seen the GRT do it in about
10 secs in a Cozy)
bobf
On 11/2/07, Terry Miles wrote:
Bob, and all,
I have just completed a Velocity. She just passed the FAA cert and, I am
going thru the process once more of looking at all of my work and hopefully
asking all the right questions.
I have built a Velocity XLRG. She has a 300 HP Lycoming IO-540. The
electrical design is my own with major influence from Bob Nuckols and this
list. Thanks for that. She has two equal batteries (Odessy 925) and a
single alternator (B&C 60 amp). One mag and one elec ign.
DC1 is direct wired into the main bus. DC2 is direct wired into the
Avionics/Essential bus. The battery contactors have separate pilot
controlled on/off switches. They share a common hot bus bar thru separate
schokey diodes. In normal ops I plan to have both battery contactors closed
for start. Electrically the batt outputs will be isolated at this point. I
have a 40 amp relay that is pilot controlled, to parallel the batteries
after the engine is started. I have a Garmin 480 GPS/NAV and a TruTrak Digi
II VSGV and a GRT EFIS Horizon I to protect from starting circuit voltage
sags and surges.
Here is my question.
After start, when the engine is stable at idle power, I will close the
alternator field. This action will cause the main bus (through a 60 amp
current limiter) up to a nominal
14.2 volts. Then I plan to close a two way solid state "bus tie" relay
which sits electrically between the two bus terminal blocks. This will
bring the Avionics-Ess bus to the same 14.2 volts and will serve as my DC2
charge wire path.
So is this 12 to 14.2 voltage boost going to hurt my avionics if they are
already on? Should I leave them off until I have tied the system together?
The amp loading on either bus as this point in the checklist is going to be
minimal.
Thanks,
Terry Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Greetings Aeroelectric list.
After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a
starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Sam,
The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
several planes I know of:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at
12 lbs.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Greetings Aeroelectric list.
After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a
starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
I forgot to mention - I do have high (9:1) compression pistons.
SRH
On 11/3/07, Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
> Greetings Aeroelectric list.
>
> After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install
> a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
>
> The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
> the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
> usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
> starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> Quickie Q-200
> Murphysboro, IL
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "david stroud" <dstroud(at)storm.ca> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
I start my Lyc 0-235C winter and summer with an $18 lawn garden tractor
battery.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Aerolectric List
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
starter?
Greetings Aeroelectric list.
After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally
install a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection
system.
The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb.
for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away
with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that
I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the
aircraft.
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/3/07 11:22 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marvin Dorris Jr <medorrisjr(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Forgot??
Marvin
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:34:52 -0500From: shoskins(at)mchsi.comTo: aeroelectri
c-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for t
he B&C BC320 starter?I forgot to mention - I do have high (9:1) compression
pistons.SRH
On 11/3/07, Sam Hoskins wrote:
Greetings Aeroelectric list.After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental
O-200 I may finally install a starter because I will probably be installing
a fuel injection system. The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the start
er and another 25 lb. for the battery. What is the smallest battery I can
likely get away with? It usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't t
hink that I'll need a starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the
aircraft. Thanks.Sam HoskinsQuickie Q-200Murphysboro, IL
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/618-967-0016 ph.312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. I've
got a bunch of really nice incentive gifts this year. There's really something
for everyone!
Please make a Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
Hello,
I'm currently building a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912S. I'm using the Z-16 revision
M schematic as a guide for designing my electrical system. I'm afraid
I'm struggling a bit on understanding this diagram and have a few questions.
1. The schematic shows the start switch connected to a starter contactor which
I assume would be B&C part S702-1. I'm using an ACS A-510-2 ignition switch.
Can this start switch be directly connected to the starter relay supplied by
Rotax, or will I need to purchase S702-1 and run it in series with the supplied
starter relay? Do I need to worry about excessive wear on the start switch
contacts if I directly connect the start switch to the Rotax starter relay?
2. I'm trying to understand the overvoltage protection. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but I believe this is the sequence if the voltage regulator fails:
A. Crowbar Overvoltage Module senses the overvoltage condition. Creates a
'short' from alternator master switch to ground.
B. Alt breaker responds to the short by tripping, thus de-energizing alternator
OV disconnect relay.
C. Alternator OV relay opens circuit from alternator (yellow AC wires), thus
removing the alternator from the system.
3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O. terminology.
I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered 'normally closed',
but according to the diagram that would open the circuit and take the alternator
off line. I don't mean to get too wrapped up on the terminology, but I
want to make sure I understand what I'm doing here.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Best Regards,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143737#143737
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Final Review |
Terry Watson a crit :
> Can you tell us the make and model of the flakey EFIS, and a little more
> about the circumstances?
>
Terry,
The instrument is some sort of Becker moving map about 6-7 years old.
Considering the behaviour, I did not try to determine the exact
denomination ;-)
Anytime the voltage sags, the unit reboots : for instance on the ground
with the engine idling, one must not move the electric wing flaps lest
the GPS reboot...
Also, the display is not really sunlight readable : we had to use a map
as a shade to accurately read the map. The associated Dynon is not much
better in this respect, BTW.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
txpilot a crit :
Dan,
I wired two airplanes using Fig Z16 with no problem.
> 1. Can this start switch be directly connected to the starter relay supplied
by Rotax,
You can use the Rotax starter relay. Make sure to add a diode or else
across the coil.
> 3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O. terminology.
I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered 'normally closed'
>
Most relays have 'normally open' and 'normally closed' contacts. That
tells us which contacts are closed or open when *de-energized*. You
chose which set of contact you want to use.
You may wish to look at the relay documentation to identify which
contacts are which, otherwise you can use a multimeter.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
I found this article about Odyssey batteries, as used in boats. There is a
lot of background on WHY the Odyssey is better.
http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/odyssey-batteries.html
Sam
On 11/3/07, Michel Creek wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
>
> The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
> several planes I know of:
>
>
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
>
>
> You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545
> at 12 lbs.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
> *To:* Aerolectric List
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
>
>
> Greetings Aeroelectric list.
>
> After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install
> a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
>
> The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
> the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
> usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
> starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> Quickie Q-200
> Murphysboro, IL
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Thanks for the article, Sam. I hadn't seen that article before; it is
consistent with other reviews I've read before (don't remember where).
Mike C.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
I found this article about Odyssey batteries, as used in boats. There is a
lot of background on WHY the Odyssey is better.
http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/odyssey-batteries.html
Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
Dan;
"Normal" with respect to switch or relay contacts means just that,
"normal", "most of the time", "as sitting on the shelf" , etc. The
opposite of "normal" is the activated or energised state where power is
applied to the relay coil, the switch is activated, etc and the contacts
transfer to the opposite position.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:31 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Questions on Z-16 Diagram
>
> Hello,
> I'm currently building a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912S. I'm using
the Z-16 revision M schematic as a guide for designing my electrical
system. I'm afraid I'm struggling a bit on understanding this diagram
and have a few questions.
>
> 1. The schematic shows the start switch connected to a starter
contactor which I assume would be B&C part S702-1. I'm using an ACS
A-510-2 ignition switch. Can this start switch be directly connected to
the starter relay supplied by Rotax, or will I need to purchase S702-1
and run it in series with the supplied starter relay? Do I need to
worry about excessive wear on the start switch contacts if I directly
connect the start switch to the Rotax starter relay?
>
> 2. I'm trying to understand the overvoltage protection. Correct me
if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the sequence if the voltage
regulator fails:
>
> A. Crowbar Overvoltage Module senses the overvoltage condition.
Creates a 'short' from alternator master switch to ground.
>
> B. Alt breaker responds to the short by tripping, thus
de-energizing alternator OV disconnect relay.
>
> C. Alternator OV relay opens circuit from alternator (yellow AC
wires), thus removing the alternator from the system.
>
> 3. Assuming I'm right on number 2, I'm confused on the N.C. and N.O.
terminology. I thought an energized relay circuit would be considered
'normally closed', but according to the diagram that would open the
circuit and take the alternator off line. I don't mean to get too
wrapped up on the terminology, but I want to make sure I understand what
I'm doing here.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dan Ginty
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143737#143737
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Sam,
The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is a
need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the
endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan
away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection
includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are
designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is
better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an
HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb.
The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good endurance.
The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Creek
Sent: Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Sam,
The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
several planes I know of:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at
12 lbs.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Greetings Aeroelectric list.
After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a
starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one
alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original
endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy
and run some numbers.
Sam
On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is
> a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the
> endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan
> away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection
> includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are
> designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is
> better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an
> HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb.
>
> The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good
> endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation.
>
> Peter H
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek
> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
> starter?
>
>
> Sam,
>
>
> The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
> several planes I know of:
>
>
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
>
>
> You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545
> at 12 lbs.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
> *To:* Aerolectric List
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
>
>
> Greetings Aeroelectric list.
>
> After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install
> a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
>
> The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
> the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
> usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
> starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> Quickie Q-200
> Murphysboro, IL
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Subject: | How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Sam,
Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper
consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files".
Peter H.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one
alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original
endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy
and run some numbers.
Sam
On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote:
Sam,
The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is a
need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the
endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan
away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection
includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are
designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is
better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an
HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb.
The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good endurance.
The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Creek
Sent: Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Sam,
The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
several planes I know of:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545 at
12 lbs.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
Greetings Aeroelectric list.
After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install a
starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
Thanks.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200
Murphysboro, IL
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
I know. My copy of the AeroElectronic connection is out at the hangar.
On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper
> consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files".
>
> Peter H.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
> starter?
>
>
> Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one
> alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original
> endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy
> and run some numbers.
>
> Sam
>
> On 11/4/07, *Peter Harris* wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is
> a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the
> endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan
> away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection
> includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are
> designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is
> better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an
> HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb.
>
> The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good
> endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation.
>
> Peter H
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek
> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
> starter?
>
>
> Sam,
>
>
> The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
> several planes I know of:
>
>
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
>
>
> You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545
> at 12 lbs.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
> *To:* Aerolectric List
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
>
>
> Greetings Aeroelectric list.
>
> After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install
> a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
>
> The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
> the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
> usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
> starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> Quickie Q-200
> Murphysboro, IL
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
> www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
>
> 618-967-0016 ph.
>
> 312-212-4086 fax*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walter Fellows" <walter.fellows(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be to
good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior?
On 11/4/07, Peter Harris wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> Bob has got a variety of circuits to suit almost every need with proper
> consideration for power and back up, if you check out the "Z files".
>
> Peter H.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Monday, 5 November 2007 7:59 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
> starter?
>
>
> Good consideration, Peter. I think will be using two batteries and one
> alternator. I'll use my existing battery which was designed for my original
> endurance bus, then I'll add a second for cranking. I'll have to get busy
> and run some numbers.
>
> Sam
>
> On 11/4/07, *Peter Harris* wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> The subject came up earlier, when using electronic fuel injection there is
> a need to plan so that the endurance of the battery is at least half the
> endurance of the fuel, so that a failed alternator would not stop the fan
> away from a landing place. The electrical load for the fuel injection
> includes the load for the pump at least 8A total. The Odyssey batteries are
> designed to deliver a high current for big cranking start but endurance is
> better with some others formulated for lighting and IT back up. I chose an
> HGL 33-12 which is a major overkill for endurance over 4hrs and weight 24lb.
>
> The very big HGL range is sealed glass matt low maintenance good
> endurance. The Odyssey has the big reputation for cranking in aviation.
>
> Peter H
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michel Creek
> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 November 2007 9:13 AM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320
> starter?
>
>
> Sam,
>
>
> The Odyssey PC680 Battery weighs 15 lbs and is used to start O-540's in
> several planes I know of:
>
>
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batteries.htm
>
>
> You should be able to get by with something even smaller such as a PC545
> at 12 lbs.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Hoskins
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:35 PM
> *To:* Aerolectric List
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter?
>
>
> Greetings Aeroelectric list.
>
> After 21 years of hand-propping my Continental O-200 I may finally install
> a starter because I will probably be installing a fuel injection system.
>
> The thing I don't like is 10 pounds for the starter and another 25 lb. for
> the battery. What is the smallest battery I can likely get away with? It
> usually starts within a pull or two, so I don't think that I'll need a
> starter/battery combination strong enough to taxi the aircraft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sam Hoskins
> Quickie Q-200
> Murphysboro, IL
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
> www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
>
> 618-967-0016 ph.
>
> 312-212-4086 fax*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
The TYPE is superior but there are other equivalent units to the Odysey
IMO such as the Dekka series by East Penn Mfg.
Even the 15AH one in my $30. Chinese automobile booster has survived
much more abuse than I expected. I've even run a 1 kw inverter off it
for power at the airport.
Ken
Walter Fellows wrote:
> Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be
> to good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | For Sale BMA EFIS One |
I give you $5.00 for it! I=92ll smash it on video and send you a free
copy. This is a good deal.
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Giffen Marr
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: For Sale BMA EFIS One
Your absolutely right, however this new BMA EFIS/One Ver 3 has the
second screen, which is a $3000 option for a new the EFIS/0ne Gen 4 and
$2600 for the smaller EFIS 2. Still a good savings over the current
versions. Make me an offer.
Giffen Marr
817-306-9592
617-223-9671 Cell
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the PS audio panel. I do know in the past
they have been far more willing to help make weird things work than Garmin
seems to be.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Melvin
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio
-->
Very useful information! I am currently wiring the 496 audio/warning output
into the "music" jack of the PS4000 audio-panel. Does one tie the "voice+"
and "warning" wires together into the "tip" terminal, and the "voice -" to
the other?
Thanks,
Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: How small battery for the B&C BC320 starter? |
>
>The TYPE is superior but there are other equivalent units to the Odysey
>IMO such as the Dekka series by East Penn Mfg.
>Even the 15AH one in my $30. Chinese automobile booster has survived much
>more abuse than I expected. I've even run a 1 kw inverter off it for power
>at the airport.
>Ken
>
>Walter Fellows wrote:
>
>>Wow, the website has a vicious set of pop-ups. This review seems to be to
>>good to be true, is this one brand of battery really so superior?
All comments and observations concerning
the relative "goodness" of batteries are,
no doubt, offered in good faith and honorable
intent. I am reminded of the words of a
learned gentleman named Lord Kelvin who
is reported to have said:
"Until you can measure something and express
it in numbers, you have only the beginning
of understanding."
This is a simple-idea . . . a truth that
stands up to skeptical scrutiny. Of course,
the same gentleman was heard to opine:
"Heavier-than-air flying machines are
impossible." and "Radio has no future."
Individuals of poor reasoning skills and/or
ulterior motive have used the later quotations
to cast doubt on the validity of the first.
Here is a simple lesson in separation of repeatable
experiment from un-quantified observation/
opinion where the later is unsupportable by
the former. This lesson also goes to the
notion that the words of no individual
should be accepted as gospel until and
unless the listener benefits from real
teaching where words are accompanied with
tools for understanding.
Batteries have recipes for success that
are affected by simple-ideas (physics),
design (engineering), craftsmanship
(willingness and skill to fully exploit
both physics and engineering) and to
a certain extent, marketplace actions
designed to minimize deleterious effects
on performance after the product leaves the
factory.
As consumers of products like batteries
with wildly varying prices, claims,
and anecdotal observations, we can only
be sure of data derived from repeatable
experiment scrutinized for flaws of
measurement or logic by which those
measurements are interpreted.
This is a rigorous exercise that few
individuals in both the supplier and
consumer side of the market are able
or willing to conduct . . . which leaves
us with tiny corks of data floating
on a sea of anecdotes and the self-
serving enthusiasm of those who would
hope to exchange your $time$ for their
product.
Bottom line is that any of us can
contribute to the wealth of knowledge
and ultimately understanding of any
product by giving it a try. Get some
rudimentary battery measurement tools . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/CBA2_1.jpg
then craft and conduct the experiment. If the
results of the experiment are interesting
and thought provoking, perhaps someone
else will endeavor to repeat the experiment
and validate, refine or refute the original
work.
Short of this effort, be mindful that
all other words describing experiences and/or
opinions about batteries are at best exceedingly
coarse data which cannot be depended upon
if ones choice of batteries has important
consequences for having made a poor decision.
Finally, unless one compares engineering data
for one product against the data of another
product, the website where any product is offered
for sale should be viewed with the most rigorous
skepticism.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone? |
From: | "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com> |
I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from Autozone.
It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't remember if I tie
wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed to tie wrap the wires
inside and whether I need to remove the tube in case there is a fire.
The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the Zod601xl but
I can always drill it out if safety is a concern.
Any input on this subject?
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance
in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone? |
From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Whats the tube made off?....If it's PVC I probably would not have done
this but if you block off the holes between the cabin and the wings then
I probably wouldn't worry about it.
If the conduit is made of nylon then that's even better as this burns
with less fumes...In that case I wouldn't bother blocking the cabin from
the wings.
Not a big deal I don't think assuming you have not used PVC coverd
wiring.
Don't bother tie wrapping the wires inside the tube.
Frank
601 HDS 400 hours
RV7a 230 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mosquito56
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from
autozone?
-->
I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from
Autozone. It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't
remember if I tie wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed
to tie wrap the wires inside and whether I need to remove the tube in
case there is a fire.
The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the
Zod601xl but I can always drill it out if safety is a concern.
Any input on this subject?
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
for assistance in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
OK. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying it.
Two other questions come to mind: is the CB really necessary if there's also a
fuse in series? After reading the Aeroelectric Connection, Bob has me sold on
fuses and I didn't plan on adding any breakers to my panel.
Second, regarding E-bus Alternate feed switch, is it a good idea to make that a
guarded switch? I would hate for that switch to be accidentally left on overnight
and thus draining the battery.
Thanks,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144018#144018
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone? |
Even though I am still in the building phase I will weigh in as well...
I put 1/2 OD flexible tube in my wings as conduit as well and here is my
methodology behind that decision.
1. It's not inside the cabin with me and that was a conscious decision.
2. It's a small amount of tubing, single run one in each wing.
3. I have not tie-wrapped any wires in there because I am not worried about
chafing inside the tube as Tefzel is pretty sturdy and against the conduit
it should be fine.
Once the wires leave the conduit for terminal blocks on the outboard and
inboard ribs, there are Adel clamps holding the wires preventing stress
against the terminal block connections, wire movement, etc.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mosquito56
Sent: Monday, 05 November, 2007 11:09
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring inside cheap plastic tubes from autozone?
I ran my wires from my wingtip through a cheap plastic tube I got from
Autozone. It looks better than tie wrapping to the rib holes. I don't
remember if I tie wrapped the wires inside and was wondering if I needed to
tie wrap the wires inside and whether I need to remove the tube in case
there is a fire.
The wing is completely closed except the fiberglass wingtip on the
Zod601xl but I can always drill it out if safety is a concern.
Any input on this subject?
Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for
assistance in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143998#143998
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
Subject: | Battery Capacity tester |
Bob,
A couple of years ago you were toying with the idea of making a circuit
board utilizing a processor, A/D converter ,etc for a battery capacity
tester and making it available the OBAM community.
Any update?
Peter Laurence
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Loren Schreck - consolidated" <lschreck(at)consolidated.net> |
First time on the list though I have been lurking for a while. I'm
about 6 months from actually laying down any wire but am in the
beginning stages of designing the electrical system for a light IFR -
RV7. Z-11 with an aux battery or Z-13/8 are front runners right now.
My question is about the replacement of the LR-3 controller with
seperate regulator/OV protection/LV warning on the latest Z-13/8
drawings.
I attended Bob's seminar last weekend in Houston, learned a lot and
can't wait to get wiring. I asked about this change in the diagrams and
the answer had something to do with philosophical differences. Can you
be more specific? I like the idea of one controller that covers the
OV/LV concerns as well. Is the reason for the change a cost issue or a
reliability one? If I do go with the updated drawings where do I find
the AEC9005-101 Low Volatage monitor?
Thanks,
Loren
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
>First time on the list though I have been lurking for a while. I'm about
>6 months from actually laying down any wire but am in the beginning stages
>of designing the electrical system for a light IFR - RV7. Z-11 with an
>aux battery or Z-13/8 are front runners right now. My question is about
>the replacement of the LR-3 controller with seperate regulator/OV
>protection/LV warning on the latest Z-13/8 drawings.
>
>I attended Bob's seminar last weekend in Houston, learned a lot and can't
>wait to get wiring. I asked about this change in the diagrams and the
>answer had something to do with philosophical differences. Can you be
>more specific? I like the idea of one controller that covers the OV/LV
>concerns as well. Is the reason for the change a cost issue or a
>reliability one? If I do go with the updated drawings where do I find the
>AEC9005-101 Low Volatage monitor?
There are as many ways to "cook up" a successful,
cost effective system as there are cooks. You can
go any number of ways. The LR3 delivers on its
performance promise as does the combination of
components depicted in Z13/8. The latter combination
is less expensive but more pieces . . . and the
generic "ford" regulator is not adjustable. But
there are adjustable regulators of other pedigree
too.
The Z-figures are primarily illustrations of
architecture. The choice of parts used within
the these architectures is open to a variety
of suitable choices which includes the LR3,
components shown, and others.
The AEC9005 is being replaced by the AEC9011
which is described in preliminary data
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf
This is a three-channel device which may
be used to watch for LV conditions on
two sources and latches a relay on
an OV condition on a third source. This
makes it suited for use as any combination
of the three tasks.
The circuitry has been completed and I'm
working out packaging details so as to
reduce production costs. This product
will be available in a month or so but
there are any number of LV warning
products that would do the job too.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
>
>OK. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying it.
>
>Two other questions come to mind: is the CB really necessary if there's
>also a fuse in series? After reading the Aeroelectric Connection, Bob has
>me sold on fuses and I didn't plan on adding any breakers to my panel.
I presume you're speaking of the alternator control
feeder to a breaker that is upstream of a crowbar
ov protection module. There's a fusible link which is
not really a fuse but a concession to traditional
notion in the T/C aircraft world for "protecting"
longer than 6". If you use some other ov protection
scheme, you could leave the breaker out and just
run the alternator field from a standard fuse
on the block. One choice would be using the AEC9011
generator/alternator OV relay feature. This
eliminates the need for a breaker.
It's not practical to use a fuse upstream
of a breaker . . . crow-barring a 5A breaker
will pop a 20A fuse, hence the fusible link
with a very robust I-squared*T fusing constant
in comparison with the breaker.
>Second, regarding E-bus Alternate feed switch, is it a good idea to make
>that a guarded switch? I would hate for that switch to be accidentally
>left on overnight and thus draining the battery.
Have your low oil pressure warning light run
from the e-bus . . . or buzzer. If the engine
is not running and the e-bus is up, it notifies
you. But then, one can use guards on any switch
in the airplane. Are there not things on the
e-bus that would stay lit-up as sufficient
warning? My personal preference is making it
a checklist item. Except for pre-flighting the
e-bus alternate feed switch, there's no reason
to turn it on except in case of alternator
failure . . . hence probability of accidental
failure to turn off at end of flight is
considerably reduced.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Capacity tester |
>Bob,
>
>A couple of years ago you were toying with the idea of making a circuit
>board utilizing a processor, A/D converter ,etc for a battery capacity
>tester and making it available the OBAM community.
>
>Any update?
I've prototyped and tested a device that
will test two pairs of AA or AAA cells
for the purpose of grading the condition
of rechargeable cells and gauging the
performance of various one-time-use
cells. As of this time, I'm undecided
about putting it on the market.
There's another product under development
that will test the capacity of the ship's
main battery in-situ by using e-bus loads
to deplete the battery and then connect
to a charger/maintainer so that the battery
is ready for flight at your next return.
Software is being crafted for this product.
It goes in the same package as the AEC9011
cited earlier.
Bob. . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
From: | "vozzen" <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
Along these same Z-16 lines (Jabiru/Rotax with 20 amp AC generator)...
Is it any problem for the regulator if it's control ("sense") is fed from the
same circuit breaker as the OV module ( and OV-relay coil)?
In other words, if the OV relay trips (breaking the AC line between the alternator
and regulator), the "sense" line to the regulator opens, dropping the control
voltage into the regulator to zero. Is this a problem?
Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to feeding the regulator control
directly from the bus?
Thanks in advance.
Richard, 601XL/3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144078#144078
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I am building a VFR Europa with a Becker transceiver and a Vertex handheld
that is panel mounted and plumbed into the intercom/audio panel. It is
easily removable.
The Vertex has a simple VOR in it.
I heard a pilot talking today, speaking of having to keep up with VOR
checks so he is legal when he gets ramp checked.
Can someone enlighten me as to what a VOR check is and how you do it, how
often you do it and if you think I need to do it?
I also have a panel mounted Garmin 296.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
A VOR check is only needed if you fly IFR.
Every 30 days you must do and make a written record of one of the following,
1) The degree variation of the VOR when tested against a VOT (VOT Test)
signal.
2) The degree variation when tested at an approved VOR test point. Normally
a surveyed location on an airport ramp with a nearby VOR.
3) If dual VOR equipped, a cross check between the 2 VOR's when tuned to the
same station/radial.
The allowed variation is spelled out in the FAR's.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VOR check
I am building a VFR Europa with a Becker transceiver and a Vertex handheld
that is panel mounted and plumbed into the intercom/audio panel. It is
easily removable.
The Vertex has a simple VOR in it.
I heard a pilot talking today, speaking of having to keep up with VOR checks
so he is legal when he gets ramp checked.
Can someone enlighten me as to what a VOR check is and how you do it, how
often you do it and if you think I need to do it?
I also have a panel mounted Garmin 296.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
> If you use some other ov protection
> scheme, you could leave the breaker out and just
> run the alternator field from a standard fuse
> on the block. One choice would be using the AEC9011
> generator/alternator OV relay feature. This
> eliminates the need for a breaker.
Thanks, Bob. I'll just stick with the crowbar OV protection in the Z-16 diagram.
I just ordered everything I need from B&C. Now all I need is a good fire
extinguisher. [Laughing]
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144195#144195
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Talbot" <Richard(at)talbots.net.au> |
Subject: | Battery Bus Feed |
Hi Everyone,
One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and
adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to the
Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6 inches
or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to the fuse
block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended wiring
distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with some
protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are:
- Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the
battery.
- Install a fusible Link.
- Relocate the fuse block (I don't want to do this)
I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some
advice from other members of the list.
If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than
the wire?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <richard(at)talbots.net.au> |
Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO.
However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be
possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry
if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch
to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons
for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare
momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to
both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this
area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
From: | "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net> |
I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per instructions
(whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I have an internally
regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec, supplied by Mattituck
with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the regulator whilst maintaining the
OV protection & LV indication or do I need to change something?
Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection - a truly
excellent publication.
Derek Sington.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144219#144219
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Richard,
I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip.
Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally
and turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two
homebuilt airplanes with no run away problems.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: richard(at)talbots.net.au
To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual
trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick
grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and
cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish
putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and
cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is
that it may be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim
system before it manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this
is virtually a requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count
of the number of aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim
disabled. I want the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be
difficult to find in a hurry if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect"
switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary
push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect
and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim
Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct
breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around
24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature
toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power
supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended
in this area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Hi Richard,
I resonate with your comments about the value of electric trim and
switches on the stick grip. I had a couple of Cherokee 235s a couple of
decades ago, one with a manual elevator trim by overhead crank, the
other with electric elevator trim on the yoke. Both had manual flaps.
When I flew the second one with the electric elevator trim, though it
worked perfectly well, I found myself using the overhead manual crank
for elevator trim. I never found the electric trim useful. The manual
flaps were never a problem. When I built my RV-6A, I decided that I
would go with manual elevator trim, manual aileron trim and manual
flaps. Part of the rationale was the experience with the Cherokees and
the rest was independence from the electrical system. At the time, I did
not even think of runaway trim. Though I believe that runaway trim is a
fairly remote failure in a simple system, I would now make it a
consideration. The chance of detecting it in time to hit another switch
before it went full throw seems poor. The real benefit of a trim access
on the grip versus reaching for a manual trim knob doesn't strike me as
worth the complications of multiple speed trim and concern about runaway
and its solutions. I find my manual trim to allow delicate adjustment at
all airspeeds. Perhaps, those who spend a lot of time at formation
flying might find convenience with electric trim. However, in Navy
flight training in SNJs in the 50s, we did a lot of formation flying
with manual elevator and rudder trim without any related problems.
I have a similar rationale for my manual flaps. They are not
electrically dependent and are only used for landing and occasionally
for takeoffs.
My only switch on the stick grip is my push-to-talk. I consider that to
be essential.
I have read lots of e-mails on this list by folks who want to not only
have push-to-talk and trim on the grip, but starter button and ident.
That is a lot of stuff to wire, for parts count and reliability concerns.
Best regards,
Richard Dudley
richard(at)talbots.net.au wrote:
> G'day Everyone,
>
>
>
> First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual
> trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick
> grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and
> cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish
> putting them in.
>
>
>
> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on
> the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is
> elsewhere.
>
>
>
> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect"
> switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary
> push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP
> disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for
> the Trim Disconnect.
>
>
>
> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
>
> My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature
> toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the
> power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
>
>
> Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended
> in this area?
>
>
> Thanks/Regards
>
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
I usually recommend a master trim switch. On my plane I used a toggle CB
between the flap switch and autopilot master.
Another approach is to use a momentary pushbutton in the ground from the
trim switch. Then it takes two fingers to activate trim, and runaway trim
is pretty much eliminated since both switches would have to fail
simultaneously.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Ensing
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Richard,
I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip.
Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally and
turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two homebuilt
airplanes with no run away problems.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: richard(at)talbots.net.au
Server
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO.
However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be
possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry
if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch
to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons
for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare
momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to
both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this
area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Subject: | 496 Audio--easy fix |
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a
very simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output
along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are
labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that
terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car.
I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires
connected to the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF
(nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through
various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the
"voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything
worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the
voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings
and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming
transmissions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor,
then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other
unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm
resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm
resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals.
I don't know what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I
always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect
the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working
the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, wrote:
> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
> is elsewhere.
>
> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim
> disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>
> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too
high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor is
running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too annoying, I
think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a hall
effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal of
making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where a
mechanical backup is impractical..
Matt-
>
>
> On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, > wrote:
>
>> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
>> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
>> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
>> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
>> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
>> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
>> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
>> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
>> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
>> is elsewhere.
>>
>> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim
>> disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
>> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
>> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
>> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>>
>> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
>> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
>> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
>> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
> My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
> console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
> power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
> If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
> switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
> console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
>
> I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
> trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too
> high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 496 Audio--easy fix |
HI Dave,
I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I
turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I have
only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there was
no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls.
The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a
potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does anyone
know how
and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I
wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the music
to
mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to
keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or warning.
Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to see
how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume independent
of the radio.
John Greaves
RV7A nearing completion
VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine
Redding, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Trim runaway should hopefully be of minor concern for several reasons.
1; The likelihood of it happening is very low. (probably not worth
worrying about)
2; Full trim travel in the types of aircraft we are building is
generally liveable. i.e. although it may increase the stick forces
somewhat the aircraft is still controllable (if it isn't then the trim
effectiveness should perhaps be reduced until it is)
3; If you are really paranoid about the possibility, then it is a simple
matter to install a DPDT centre off toggle switch in the wiring to the
motor (after all the relays, control devices etc) so that in the event
the trim does run away, the relays weld etc, you simply reverse this
switch to run the trim back to neutral then select the centre off
position to totally disconnect and isolate the motor. (this switch, if
it becomes your choice, should be spring return to off from the reverse
position to make it impossible to leave in the reverse position)
4; Manual trim eliminates even the remotest possibility if you're not
otherwise comfortable.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>
> Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor
is
> running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too
annoying, I
> think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a
hall
> effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal
of
> making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where
a
> mechanical backup is impractical..
>
>
> Matt-
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM,
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> >> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running
away
> >> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> >> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> >> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> >> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> >> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> >> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
> >> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
> >> is elsewhere.
> >>
> >> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim
> >> disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
> >> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
> >> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
> >> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
> >>
> >> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> >> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for
the
> >> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> >> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
> >
> > My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
> > console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
> > power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
> > If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
> > switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
> > console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
> >
> > I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
> > trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were
too
> > high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> |
Subject: | Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar |
in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric |
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm in...
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
>
>I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per
>instructions (whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I
>have an internally regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec,
>supplied by Mattituck with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the
>regulator whilst maintaining the OV protection & LV indication or do I
>need to change something?
No, the LR3 is not compatible with the internally
regulated alternator. You can . . .
(1) have the alternator modified to bring out the
field lead for external regulation by means of the
LR3C or . . .
(2) wire per Z-24 as explained in . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
in anticipation of changing out for the AEC9004
Alternator Controller for IR alternators.
>Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection -
>a truly excellent publication.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased
that you find it a good return on investment.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Richard,
If you're referring to the typical Ray Allen (RAC) electric trim, you'll
note that the only time there is power to the trim servo is when your wiring
is commanding a trim movement. So, first off, it is virtually impossible
for the servo itself to run-away. Rather, a "run-away" has to be caused by
the up-stream wiring. Keep this in mind when designing and constructing
your trim circuits. Also therefore, there are several potential approaches
to mitigate potential run-away scenarios.
1. Limit the overall trim such that the plane is still manually
controllable at full time.
2. Think about having two independent trim feeds/buttons (with isolated
disconnects). One on each stick, or 1 stick and 1 panel, etc. That way, if
one feed fails and causes a runaway, you can disconnect it and then take
corrective action with the other.
3. Some folks have even put a momentary power feed line reversal
circuit (button) in the system. Push it and whatever is causing the trim to
run one way will automatically cause it to run back the other way. Let go
(and disconnect) when it's in the middle (neutral).
4. etc
The RAC system's safety is in it's inherent simplicity.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
richard(at)talbots.net.au
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:19 PM
G'day Everyone,
..I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Bus Feed |
>Hi Everyone,
>
>
>One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and
>adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to
>the Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6
>inches or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to
>the fuse block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended
>wiring distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with
>some protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are:
>
>
>- Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the
>battery.
>
>- Install a fusible Link.
>
>- Relocate the fuse block (I don t want to do this)
If it's not next to the battery, then it's
not a battery bus but an always-hot bus.
There are reasons for the published
recommendations based on about 70+ years
of aviation experience. But it is your
airplane and nobody here should be trying
to convince you to do something that is
not also supported by your understanding.
>
>
>I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some
>advice from other members of the list.
>
>If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than
>the wire?
Use a fuse here. It needs to be as responsive
as practical to overload/fault conditions. Fuses
are the device of choice.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
>G day Everyone,
>
>
>First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
>systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
>other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost
>IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
>
>
>I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
>any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
>manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may
>be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
>manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
>requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
>aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
>the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a
>hurry if it is elsewhere.
>
>
>In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim disconnect switch
>to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push
>buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a
>spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>
>
>The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
>to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
>and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
>smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
>
>My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
>from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply
>to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
>
>
>Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in
>this area?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/AP_Disconnect_B.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
>
>Along these same Z-16 lines (Jabiru/Rotax with 20 amp AC generator)...
>
>Is it any problem for the regulator if it's control ("sense") is fed from
>the same circuit breaker as the OV module ( and OV-relay coil)?
>
>In other words, if the OV relay trips (breaking the AC line between the
>alternator and regulator), the "sense" line to the regulator opens,
>dropping the control voltage into the regulator to zero. Is this a problem?
>
>Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to feeding the regulator
>control directly from the bus?
Depending on who's rectifier/regulator is being
used, there may be manufacturer's prohibitions
for connection of "C" to the bus independently
of B and R. Having said that, and based on what
I've seen of what's reputed to be an exemplar
schematic of this genre' of rectifier/regulator,
(See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/regul_912.jpg)
I can perceive no reason in the physics for
this prohibition. But unless provided with
a lucid schematic of the specific device
in question, I cannot refute the prohibition
with confidence. Hence the drawing you see
in Z-16.
What problems have you deduced for wiring
as suggested?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | What Listers Are Saying... |
November is Matronics List Fund Raiser month and a number people been sending some
really nice comments regarding the Lists. I thought I'd share a few below.
The Lists are completely supported by your Contributions. All of the bills for
new hardware, connectivity, and electricity are paid by the generous support
of the List members.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of the List
and Forums:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
================= What Listers Are Saying ================
Flying and building is much safer with this List!!
Robert D.
Thanks for having and maintaining such a great resource to
all of us builders and flyers.
Wayne E.
Love the fact that you haven't caved to advertising!
Peter J.
..a great resource!!
Robert C.
Not building at the moment, but the Lists keeps me right
up to date with what's going on.
Chris D.
The web forum has been running great.
James O.
I enjoy this [List] site very much...
Paul C.
This is a great list!
Albert G.
..a valuable resource!
Roger C.
I am deployed to Pakistan right now, and being able
to go on-line and keep up with the aircraft discussions
helps keep the aircraft building dream alive in my mind!
Gregory C.
..fantastic service!
Roger M.
..clearly a work of passion!
Mike C.
It is a great service to us!
Kevin C.
The list is a wonderful resource...
Ralph O.
[The Lists] have been the single greatest resource in
building my RV-9A and now my RV-10.
Albert G.
..a valuable and always improving service.
Dick S.
STILL THE BEST BARGAIN AROUND!!
Owen B.
..such a valuable tool.
Jon M.
[The Lists] have been an invaluable resource for me
as a Zenith homebuilder.
David G.
The opportunity to meet (on line at least) many other
interesting builders and to make some new friends is
truly appreciated.
Albert G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Runaway trim....I agree with those who point out that the aircraft's maximum trim
should still be flyable. But the problem still needs fixing.
I would also like to point out that one should use environmentally-sealed switches
for stick-grip trim switches. A sweaty hand on non-sealed switches leads to
early failure.
I have worked on a system that used the "watchdog" idea from computers where the
trim system has to get a periodic signal from the controller, otherwise the
trim actuator resets to some "safe" position. This is trivial to do.
I have also sold plenty of my "True Servo Conversion for MAC/RAC". These seem to
be a great way to make the MAC/RAC trim box work like the Cessna trim wheel.
But recently I have doubted the utility of the elevator trim at all. Why bother?
Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads to fatigue.
So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable (perhaps near
the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the force on the stick?
Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated. Anybody want a patent?
"When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California,
it raised the I.Q. of both states."
--Will Rogers
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144404#144404
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick
forces get too high then simply slow down.
I certainly would not bother with another switch.
Frank
RV 7a
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert McCallum
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Trim runaway should hopefully be of minor concern for several reasons.
1; The likelihood of it happening is very low. (probably not worth
worrying about)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
Bob,
A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low priced
AA and AAA cells.
You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the
purchase.
I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send you
any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot com. 500
cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per cell
delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was concerned that
they might be short dated for that price.
If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I
please let me know, I will send some to you.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 77.9 hours
Luana, IA.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
From: | "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com> |
The electric trim on my RV-7 is run by the Vertical Power system. The trim motors
are controlled with solid-state switches - no mechanical relays. It provides
runaway trim protection (stops the motor) by simply holding down the opposite
trim switch, then after 3 seconds it disconnects the trim switches. You can
then use the backup switches on the display to return the trim back to a neutral
position. There is also a visual indicator when the trim is running, and soon
audio as well. And it's all simpler to wire than a conventional system with
mechanical relays. Of course it's part of a broader system - you can;t buy just
the trim alone - but the whole point is to make overall wiring alot simpler.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144418#144418
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Garmin Power Requirements |
From: | "George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
Listers -
Do any of you have actual, measured current draws for Garmin radio
equipment? Specifically, I'd like to see the "idling" receive-mode
current draws for GNS-430, SL-30 and GTX-327. I'm not looking for
recommended fuse ratings - I have those. I'm looking for "real,"
observed power requirements in an effort to properly assess my true
alternator size requirement.
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG
Gluing Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Morrow" <DanFM01(at)butter.toast.net> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
>From my reading of aviation magazines, I gather the BIG airplanes often
come with auto-trim systems. It's a good idea but probably already patented
or covered by "prior art".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:53 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>
> Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads
> to fatigue. So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable
> (perhaps near the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the
> force on the stick? Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated.
> Anybody want a patent?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Another good reason to go Vertical. I will be doing the same thing.
Remember the Ray Allen sticks operate on the principle of shorting out
the connection to move the trim, so a short represents a signal to move.
A dead short will also cause the servo to go nuts, so short prevention
is the best design goal.
A panic switch may be used to open the system completely. That could be
on the panel with a big red button rather than using a spot on the
stick. If the trim has already moved substantially before you hit the
panic button, you need to fight it to the ground to land. Inconvenient,
but not dangerous unless your load is imbalanced - pretty messy in the
wind too. Once on the ground put a nut/bolt through the gap to guarantee
it won't move on the way home.
Another option for TruTrak users is to buy the automatic trim controller
system which incorporates a fail-safe runaway feature.
Somebody should design a feature that returns the servo to neutral when
disconnect from power. Now there's an idea.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
marcausman
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch
-->
The electric trim on my RV-7 is run by the Vertical Power system. The
trim motors are controlled with solid-state switches - no mechanical
relays. It provides runaway trim protection (stops the motor) by simply
holding down the opposite trim switch, then after 3 seconds it
disconnects the trim switches. You can then use the backup switches on
the display to return the trim back to a neutral position. There is also
a visual indicator when the trim is running, and soon audio as well. And
it's all simpler to wire than a conventional system with mechanical
relays. Of course it's part of a broader system - you can;t buy just the
trim alone - but the whole point is to make overall wiring alot simpler.
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144418#144418
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Garmin Power Requirements |
Vertical readily shows those values. Not sure if you're in a hurry ?? I
am not quite setup, but I will make a note of those items when complete.
Differences, I have a 530, sl30 and gtx330, but they should be similar.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin Power Requirements
Listers -
Do any of you have actual, measured current draws for Garmin
radio equipment? Specifically, I'd like to see the "idling"
receive-mode current draws for GNS-430, SL-30 and GTX-327. I'm not
looking for recommended fuse ratings - I have those. I'm looking for
"real," observed power requirements in an effort to properly assess my
true alternator size requirement.
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG
Gluing Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
The Tru-Trak autopilots already offer such an auto-trim function. Works
magnificently.
Kenneth Melvin
RV9A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Subject: | 496 Audio--easy fix |
You can run the XM volume up and down by tapping the power button and
scrolling left/right. QUIT to exit. Not quite as easy as a knob but at
least it's all there already.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N81JG(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
HI Dave,
I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I
turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I
have only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that
there was no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset
controls. The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a
potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does
anyone know how and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I
decided when I wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I
didn't want the music to mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was
broken so I will have to keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss
any reception or warning. Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with
the music. I'll have to see how that works. Mainly I want to be able to
control XM music volume independent of the radio.
John Greaves
RV7A nearing completion
VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine
Redding, CA
_____
See what'
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
From: | "vozzen" <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
>What problems have you deduced for wiring
as suggested?
None-- looks great. I was using the outdated Rev.K, which showed C-lead coming
thru the OV trip breaker circuit, instead of direct from battery (via Master
Sw).
Thanks, Bob, for your continuing attention.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144466#144466
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com> |
Subject: | 496 Audio--easy fix |
Dave,
Thank you for posting your solution. I had kept your original note because
I intend to do the same thing you described. My intention was when I got
closer I would contact you to see where you ended up. Now I'll just keep t
his one!
I'm glad to hear you got everything working. Your solution was certainly n
ot intuitively obvious (meaning I would have never figured it out!).
Thanks for being the pioneer!
Paul A. Fisher
RV-7A (still finishing!)
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 18:02
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a v
ery simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output alo
ng with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are labele
d "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that terminates
in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car. I took t
he speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires connected to
the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF (n
othing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through va
rious simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the "vo
ice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything w
orked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the v
oice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warning
s and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming transmis
sions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor
, then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other un
switched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm resi
stor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm resistors
do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I don't k
now what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I a
lways get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effec
t the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's workin
g the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Swanson" <jswanson(at)jamadots.com> |
Installing Rotax 912 into CH701.
Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin
terminal
to the shielded wire?
What tool do i need?
Thanks
John
seems as if the last 10% takes longer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | 496 Audio--easy fix |
For anyone who knows: I wired my GPSMap 296 this way about 2 years ago
using my Sigtronics SPA-400 intercom and the Vx-Aviation AMX-1A Audio
Bus,
hoping that Garmin would introduce voice warnings on the 296. The audio
works fine: I get a voice alarm when power fails and a voice prompt
when I
change volume. I don't get any other voice warnings, however.
I imagine the 496 and 296 share a lot of common code, so I would expect
the
296 to have voice warnings as well.
Has anyone been successful in getting voice warnings from the 296, or am
I
doomed to upgrade to a 496 to get this feature?
Thanks, Vern Little
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fisher
Paul A.
Sent: November 7, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
Dave,
Thank you for posting your solution. I had kept your original note
because
I intend to do the same thing you described. My intention was when I
got
closer I would contact you to see where you ended up. Now I'll just
keep
this one!
I'm glad to hear you got everything working. Your solution was
certainly
not intuitively obvious (meaning I would have never figured it out!).
Thanks for being the pioneer!
Paul A. Fisher
RV-7A (still finishing!)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 18:02
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be
a
very simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to
the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output
along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are
labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that
terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the
car.
I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires
connected to the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We
tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF
(nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and
through
various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the
"voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel,
everything
worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire
that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the
voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get
any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs
warnings
and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming
transmissions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I
can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no
bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm
resistor,
then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other
unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm
resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm
resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio
signals.
I don't know what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted,
I
always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the
audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound
page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly
effect
the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's
working
the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
.matronics.com/contribution
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: CH701 Rotax 912 |
>Installing Rotax 912 into CH701.
>Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin terminal
>to the shielded wire?
>What tool do i need?
I presume you're wrestling with the shield connection.
No special tools needed. You need to convert the shield
braid into wire like so:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
Once both conductors at the end of your shielded
wire are "plain wire", you can use the standard
PIDG terminals and appropriate tool.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
>
>But recently I have doubted the utility of the elevator trim at all. Why
>bother?
>
>Well...so the pilot won't have to push on the stick constantly. This leads
>to fatigue. So how about putting a strain gauge on the elevator cable
>(perhaps near the trim box) and auto-trimming the elevator to remove the
>force on the stick? Easy to do, and one more pilot distraction eliminated.
>Anybody want a patent?
Demonstrated this for Lear about 30 years ago.
They had a flight test aircraft fitted with
a pilot pitch effort strain gage. We closed the
loop on stick force and used the servoed trim
system I'd already certified. The pilot held an
AUTO TRIM button on the stick. He would hand-fly
to desired pitch condition and the trim system would
be constantly driving to take force out of the
stick. Worked great, marketing couldn't see enough
demand to justify developing it into a product.
But that was on Lears and 30 years ago, we're working
a whole new market now.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
>
> >What problems have you deduced for wiring
>as suggested?
>
>None-- looks great. I was using the outdated Rev.K, which showed C-lead
>coming thru the OV trip breaker circuit, instead of direct from battery
>(via Master Sw).
>
>Thanks, Bob, for your continuing attention.
No problem . . . and I wasn't trying to challenge you
on the 'modification' . . . I'm just trying to be
sensitive to errors in my perceptions and
evolution in new products.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | New product announcement |
I wasn't predicting this item to be the first
new product on the website this year but I had
a need for the device in some other activities.
Production parts are on order and bench testing is
far enough along to bolster my confidence that
this 20A Solid State Relay is ready to go up on
the website. It will probably be about 30 days
before I can take orders. I don't build products
here any more and my production house needs
some time. We'll probably build 100 of these for
the first batch.
In the mean time, I'd be pleased to answer
any questions about it. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
This product uses a newly developed, standard
package philosophy that reduces assembly time
It also reduces time needed to get new products
on the market. The electronics are easy, the
packaging can be a real cost driver. There's a
stream of 6 or so so new devices on burners
that will fit into this same package or the next
size up.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | RE:496 Audio--easy fix |
John,
I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there
are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume.
From: N81JG(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
HI Dave,
I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I
turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I
have
only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there
was
no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls.
The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a
potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does
anyone know how
and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I
wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the
music to
mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to
keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or
warning.
Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to
see
how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume
independent
of the radio.
John Greaves
RV7A nearing completion
VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine
Redding, CA
Marty
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | RE:496 Audio--easy fix |
Dave,
First, thank you for your diligence in this matter and for sharing your
knowledge openly on this list.
If I understand your comments below the "Voice -" line from the 496 is left
open, right?
I think the only reason for the 220 ohm resistor may be due to having the
EFIS voice on the same input connection. I think Bob has commented on this
before on this list or it may be in his book, I seem to recall something
about this in his audio amplifier section dealing with audio isolation.
Bob, can you "weigh-in" on this issue?
Marty
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio--easy fix
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a
very simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output
along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are
labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that
terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car.
I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires
connected to the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF
(nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through
various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the
"voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything
worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the
voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings
and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming
transmissions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm
>resistor,
then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other
unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm
resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm
resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals. I
don't know what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I
always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect
the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working
the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Dabney <jdabney(at)rice.edu> |
Subject: | Re: New product announcement |
Bob,
Will this new solid state relay be suitable for use as the alternator
relay for the SD-8 (Z-13) or for the alternator relay for a Jabiru 20
amp alternator, replacing relay S704-1? As I recall, you said in your
Houston class that the solid state relays have much lower holding
current than conventional relays.
Jim
At 08:23 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>I wasn't predicting this item to be the first
>new product on the website this year but I had
>a need for the device in some other activities.
>
>Production parts are on order and bench testing is
>far enough along to bolster my confidence that
>this 20A Solid State Relay is ready to go up on
>the website. It will probably be about 30 days
>before I can take orders. I don't build products
>here any more and my production house needs
>some time. We'll probably build 100 of these for
>the first batch.
>
>In the mean time, I'd be pleased to answer
>any questions about it. See:
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
>
>This product uses a newly developed, standard
>package philosophy that reduces assembly time
>It also reduces time needed to get new products
>on the market. The electronics are easy, the
>packaging can be a real cost driver. There's a
>stream of 6 or so so new devices on burners
>that will fit into this same package or the next
>size up.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Problems are the price of progress. )
> ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
> ( Good news weakens me." )
> ( -Charles F. Kettering- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
From: | "G-VANN" <donald.carnegie(at)bilsolutions.co.uk> |
I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about 20cm behind
the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I have had
trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am looking for suggestions.
I want to move it either forward or rearwards. Rearwards will put it
behind the steps which I think are interfering with the signal. I am also going
to mount a straight antenna on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one
to the main com and the other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that
I can connect my handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing
any suggestions on belly locations.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144551#144551
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>Bob,
>A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low priced AA
>and AAA cells.
>You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the purchase.
>I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send you any
>cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot com. 500 cells for
>$49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per cell delivered! The cells
>have a 12 2012 out date. I was concerned that they might be short dated
>for that price.
>If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I please
>let me know, I will send some to you.
Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples
from the other gentleman.
On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of
AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in
Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per
cell.
I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your
samples to the data base. Thanks for your
time and interest.
Bob Nuckolls
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226-1008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: RE:496 Audio--easy fix |
On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a
pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any
other button afterwards kills the pop-up.
Emrath wrote:
>
>
> John,
> I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there
> are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: New product announcement |
>
>Bob,
>
>Will this new solid state relay be suitable for use as the alternator
>relay for the SD-8 (Z-13) or for the alternator relay for a Jabiru 20 amp
>alternator, replacing relay S704-1? As I recall, you said in your Houston
>class that the solid state relays have much lower holding current than
>conventional relays.
I'll have to think about that a bit. Probably
not a drop-in replacement in Z-16 because "C"
terminal draws a small amount of current which
would be "back fed" through the de-energized
relay into a non-running alternator.
Yes, this "relay" operates on 20 mA of current
while the S704-1 is on the order off 100 mA.
But even 100 mA is so insignificant to the
load analysis that I wouldn't recommend ditching
the S704-1 for that reason alone.
Hmmm . . . the other scenario is to consider
the purpose of the S704-1 is to provide control
in an OV condition too. The AEC9030 would get
into trouble at over 24v differential or about
36 volts out of a runaway alternator. I guess
the short answer is "no", not as presently
configured.
It's better suited for landing/taxi light
control and wig-wag circuits, pitot heat
relay, e-bus alternate feed, etc. The reason
this came into existence so soon is that
one of my clients needed to control some
8-15A loads and the controls design called
for illuminated push-buttons that would not
carry those loads.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Swanson" <jswanson(at)jamadots.com> |
Subject: | Re: CH701 Rotax 912 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CH701 Rotax 912
>
>
>
>>Installing Rotax 912 into CH701.
>>Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin
>>terminal
>>to the shielded wire?
>>What tool do i need?
>
> I presume you're wrestling with the shield connection.
> No special tools needed. You need to convert the shield
> braid into wire like so:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html
>
> Once both conductors at the end of your shielded
> wire are "plain wire", you can use the standard
> PIDG terminals and appropriate tool.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> Bob
Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax
912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the
electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not
having the proper technique or tool.
Any help on this would be appreciated
Thankks
John CH701
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
>
>
>I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about
>20cm behind the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I
>have had trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am
>looking for suggestions. I want to move it either forward or
>rearwards. Rearwards will put it behind the steps which I think are
>interfering with the signal. I am also going to mount a straight antenna
>on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one to the main com and the
>other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that I can connect my
>handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing any
>suggestions on belly locations.
I would explore other reasons first. It is exceedingly
difficult to "shadow" a VHF comm antenna so severely
as to attenuate your signals that bad. Those steps
will have some influence . . . but it would take
a carefully controlled setup on the antenna range
to quantify it.
Make sure the SWR is good on the antenna as-installed
and that the transmitter's power output and modulation
are up to snuff. I've seen deeper "shadows" due to
local surroundings. I presume you're only having trouble
on the ground. Does the hand-held with rubber-duck antenna
work good when the panel mounted radio and belly antenna
does not?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Subject: | Tyco and all its problems |
Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime.
I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up:
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf,
which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax
dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a
large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris
was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well.
The info sheet gives the description of the device as -
"TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo
is:
"EV200 Series Contactor
(CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is
left to the customer to divine.
I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10
minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted
no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got
another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and
delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of
this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in
USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it
up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that
it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I
have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec
page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing
to clarify the discrepancy.
Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent
- I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from
TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
From: | "roadmaps" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com> |
In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should the diode
have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode?
John T
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144581#144581
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
From: | "dekano" <dekano(at)bluebottle.com> |
For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I
were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam
driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak
pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this
airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying)
Dekano
----------------------------------------
Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
WOw...thats word forword almost exactly the same post I wrote about a
month back...:)
Even my 601 I sold with 400 hours on it!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dekano
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
-->
For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I
were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam
driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak
pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this
airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying)
Dekano
----------------------------------------
Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: CH701 Rotax 912 |
>
>Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax
>912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the
>electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not
>having the proper technique or tool.
>Any help on this would be appreciated
Okay, you need to send me a picture of the
parts you're working with. Get me a closeup
of the un-installed pin and the socket in the
module.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rd2(at)evenlink.com |
Subject: | 396/496 Audio revisited |
Thanks for all postings on the subject.
I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone
through 196, 296 and 396.
To summarize on the AUDIO subject:
In aviation mode:
296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings
396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following
VOICE warnings:
-Terrain
-Obstructions
-500 ft AGL
-Sink Rate
-Traffic (if so equipped)
The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are:
1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the
Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the
unit.
The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)
The volume of the output can be controlled.
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings
2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.
The volume of the output can be controlled.
So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].
In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.
Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio, it will be always on during ATC communications.
How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom).
Rumen
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from MauleDriver; Date: 07:30 AM 11/8/2007
-0500)
________________________________________________________________
On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a
pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any
other button afterwards kills the pop-up.
Emrath wrote:
>
>
> John,
> I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there
> are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tyco and all its problems |
Sorry your having so much trouble with this procurement
my friend. Allied Electronics, for one, carries the
Kilovac series devices. The catalog page is:
http://tinyurl.com/3e3hyj
I believe you want the Allied Stock #433-0016,
Kilovac Model EV200AAANA, Tyco part #1618002-7
The part you have may be this same part.
The data sheet for this part can be had at:
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
It shouldn't be hard to confirm with a multimeter
that your holding current is on the order of .15A
Hope this helps.
Bob . . .
>
>Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime.
>I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up:
>http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf,
>which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax
>dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a
>large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris
>was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well.
>The info sheet gives the description of the device as -
>"TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo
>is:
>"EV200 Series Contactor
>(CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is
>left to the customer to divine.
>I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10
>minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted
>no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got
>another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and
>delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of
>this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in
>USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it
>up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that
>it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I
>have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec
>page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing
>to clarify the discrepancy.
> Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent
>- I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from
>TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries.
>Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kenneth Melvin" <Melvinke(at)coho.net> |
I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecting up
the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can
now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., delivers
the desired results, loud and clear.
Kenneth Melvin, RV9A,
Hillsboro, Oregon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery charging |
>
>In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should
>the diode have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode?
Why a diode? You can hook the second battery
right up to the system through a switch or relay
and make sure it gets the full benefit of a
charge from full bus voltage.
Dual batteries have been discussed for many
purposes and illustrated in the z-figures.
Assuming you have active notification of alternator
failure (low bus volts warning light) then there's
little to be gained and something to be lost
in using a diode for battery isolation. A switch
works better.
But if you have to have a diode, get one of
these things from Radio Shack
http://tinyurl.com/ytcdr7
and use one of the four diodes it contains.
It's rated at 25A and will probably handle
the task just fine . . . assuming that the
"second battery" is a relatively small one.
Like 10 a.h. or less.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
Subject: | New product announcement |
You said "one of my clients needed to control some
8-15A loads and the controls design called
for illuminated push-buttons that would not
carry those loads."
Bob, can you give us some idea how many "buttons" each relay would be able
to control (I assume one button per relay). Also, what brand/type of
illuminated push-buttons have you been testing with the relay?
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
Subject: | more on Trim Disconnect Switch |
For those concerned about run-away trim conditions and being able to
reverse those conditions you may want to look at a new product from TCW
Technologies at www.tcwtech.com.
This new product called Safety-Trim resolves run-away trim
conditions, provides speed control, + 2 speed adjustable presets, +
emergency trim reverse and is availble in 1 and 2 axis versions.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution |
Yet! :-)
Dear Listers,
If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't
yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the first
time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribution
messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support
the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't
you wish PBS worked that way? :-)
You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests
messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox!
I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it was
always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that
I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite the bullet
and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam!
A working system!
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to
pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
up. I run ALL of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly
ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet
these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. There are certain
circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message.
These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when
using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way
to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
Frank is correct:
The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim issue
and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to counter-act
when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling back and
slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot that a safe
landing can be made.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in the RV
aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much (electric)
trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond fast enough when
the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I purchased a trim
control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this (perceived) problem. I
have a micro switch that opens when the flaps are down to send a signal to
the trim control module to change the trim motor speed. One of the design
features of this unit is that it has a runaway trim sensing feature built
in. If the trim button is held for more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wire
shorted to ground), the trim control module assumes a runaway condition and
shuts off the trim motor. Cycling power returns the unit to normal
operating condition.
Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it worth
the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system (the price
was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does it always work
as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd like to know what to
expect. Thanks.
Dean
RV-6A N197DM
Functional (electron) checkout in progress.
>__________________________ Original Message________________________________
>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>>
>
>And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick
>forces get too high then simply slow down.
>
>I certainly would not bother with another switch.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Antennae connector |
I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory
on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a
clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for
this connector? Where could I obtain just one?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
From: | "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net> |
Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it not merely
send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as such as far
as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn on or off? If
this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to it) then am I not
simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the previously documented problems
with internal regulation am insuring against a reasonably likely future
failure of the internal regulation mechanism?
Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master contactor (ES
24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
Thank you for your patience with my questions
Derek.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
Bob,
You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours
Luana, IA.
On Nov 7, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>> Bob,
>> A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low
>> priced AA and AAA cells.
>> You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the
>> purchase.
>> I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send
>> you any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot
>> com. 500 cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per
>> cell delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was
>> concerned that they might be short dated for that price.
>> If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I
>> please let me know, I will send some to you.
>
> Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples
> from the other gentleman.
>
> On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of
> AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in
> Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per
> cell.
>
> I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your
> samples to the data base. Thanks for your
> time and interest.
>
> Bob Nuckolls
> 6936 Bainbridge Road
> Wichita, KS 67226-1008
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Thanks, Ken. I'll pass this on to Jacek, who did most of the grunt work.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Melvin
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio
-->
I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecting up
the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can
now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., delivers
the desired results, loud and clear.
Kenneth Melvin, RV9A,
Hillsboro, Oregon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emrath(at)comcast.net |
Subject: | 396/496 Audio Revisited. |
Rumen,
Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio panel and
to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radio, if so subscribed,
but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel. So for me, it appears
using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input is the way
to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/8" audio
could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe using 220 ohm resisters,
to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus have both the IPOD and Warnings
muted by radio calls. Someone please correct me if this doesn't seem correct,
given the below informaton
From: rd2(at)evenlink.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio revisited
Thanks for all postings on the subject.
I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone
through 196, 296 and 396.
To summarize on the AUDIO subject:
In aviation mode:
296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings
396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following
VOICE warnings:
-Terrain
-Obstructions
-500 ft AGL
-Sink Rate
-Traffic (if so equipped)
The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are:
1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the
Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the
unit.
The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)
The volume of the output can be controlled.
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings
2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.
The volume of the output can be controlled.
So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].
In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.
Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio, it will be always on during ATC communications.
How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom).
Rumen
Rumen,
Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio panel
and to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radio, if
so subscribed, but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel.
So for me, it appears using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input
is the way to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/8"
audio could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe
using 220 ohm resisters, to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus
have both the IPOD and Warnings muted by radio calls. Someone
please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, given the below informaton
; inst
ead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers
with no connection to the
unit.
The Data Cable output is mono, low
impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)
The volume of the output can be
controlled.
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings
2)
3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance
Music
(if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.
The
volume of the output can be controlled.
So, there is no difference
between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or music)
and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data cable
(voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only difference
here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in
both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls
everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstru
ctions
, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].
In aviation
mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel because
it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker and
the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.
Finally, the
audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel or intercom
(to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be
always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio, it will
be always on during ATC communications.
How to feed the audio from the
396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and disadvantages
with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is
to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom).
Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wire Protection - Again |
From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
I'm using the Z13/8 as the basis of my -8A electrical design. Feeling
pretty smug since no major problems encountered so far with the wiring.
But as always, the devil is in the details.
Just noticed that the 14 AWG wire going from the battery contactor to
the battery bus has a little * next to it that refers to a note that
sez: 6 inches or less.
I'm using fuse blocks mounted in the right forward baggage compartment
as the bus location. Wire length is closer to 18 inches than 6 inches -
although I can rearrange fuse block locations by redrilling. Instead,
how about using 12 AWG wire instead of 14 AWG?
Paul Valovich
N192NM Reserved (again)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>Bob,
>You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS.
>Kevin Boddicker
>Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours
>Luana, IA.
Very good sir. I'll put them on the precision
"battery killer" right away.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Wound field alternators are regulated by adjusting the amount of current
going through the field windings - several Amps at high output. The LR3-C
is designed for an alternator like this. Additionally, the LR3-C is a
linear regulator meaning that it's field output is not switched on and off
(in a pulse width modulated method), but instead continuously adjusted so
as to provide the correct field current (and be electrically quiet while
doing it). If the bus voltage sags a little, the field current is
increased a little.
Many/most internally regulated alternators don't take their field current
from the sense line, but from a connection to the B-lead through the
regulator circuit. If the LR3-C were wired "around" the internally
regulated alternator, I predict the output would, at best, be unstable.
As the bus voltage sagged, the LR3-C would increase the field
voltage/current, the internal regulator on the alternator would think the
bus voltage was rising quickly, and reduce the field current - at least
with some bus dynamics.
Additionally, I suspect the LR3-C would be operating at the very edge of
its design curve - the current through the sense line on an internally
regulated alternator may be exceedingly low, which is not what the LR3-C
is likely designed for - it's leakage current through the field output
might be higher than what the sense line will use - if it's driving a FET
for instance.
Also, I suspect that the overvoltage feature of the LR3-C might not work
on an internally regulated alternator as some fail modes on these
alternators don't respond to grounding the sense lead - the alternator
continues be unregulated.
The bottom line is the that the LR3-C is designed to enhance performance
in a certain type of circuit, and this isn't it. If you need the features
like independent over voltage protection you'll be better off adding a
circuit just for that. I'd imagine that you could sell the LR3-C for
nearly what you paid for it. Or, buy a compatible, externally regulated
alternator.
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it
> not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as
> such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn
> on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to
> it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the
> previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring
> against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation
> mechanism?
>
> Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master
> contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
>
> Thank you for your patience with my questions
>
> Derek.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Antennae connector |
>
>
>I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on
>the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip
>ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this
>connector? Where could I obtain just one?
Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
to be easily removed from the panel for
maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
you're looking for:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
see what pops up.
P.S. Here's one:
http://tinyurl.com/ynswar
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Antennae connector |
>
>
>I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on
>the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip
>ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this
>connector? Where could I obtain just one?
Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
to be easily removed from the panel for
maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
you're looking for:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
see what pops up.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Subject: | TYCO and all its problems |
Bob,
Once again, you have come through with the needed info, as did Ron
Parigoris. I'll get on it right away! Many thanks for the trouble taken.....
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
>
>Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it
>not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as
>such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn
>on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to
>it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the
>previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring
>against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation
>mechanism?
No, the output of an LR3C is intended to directly
drive the field winding of an alternator and it expects
to see a nearly instantaneous response to TINY changes
of DC voltage. The LR3 output varies from as low as 1v in
cruising flight with light loads on the alternator to
some value just below bus voltage. The input signal
expected by an internally regulated alternator is either
fully-on or fully-off . . . and for most alternators,
turning the input command off after the alternator comes
alive has no effect. An externally regulated alternator
brings the field lead out for connection to the regulator
and has a diagram much like so:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/External_Regulator.jpg
. . . while the internally regulated machine looks like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Internal_Regulator.jpg
There's LOTS of "stuff" in that box labeled "REG" that
would totally bumfoozle an LR3 or any other external
regulator.
>Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master
>contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
Don't know about Van's products. Dimensions for the
S701-1 are here:
http://tinyurl.com/3dnmcg
>Thank you for your patience with my questions
My pleasure sir.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
On my RV7 its just not that big of a deal, sure at speed you barely
touch the trim switch to adjust but honestly its not hard to trim it
out.
Frank
RV7a IO360
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim
-->
Frank is correct:
The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim
issue and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to
counter-act when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling
back and slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot
that a safe landing can be made.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in the
RV aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much
(electric) trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond
fast enough when the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I
purchased a trim control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this
(perceived) problem. I have a micro switch that opens when the flaps
are down to send a signal to the trim control module to change the trim
motor speed. One of the design features of this unit is that it has a
runaway trim sensing feature built in. If the trim button is held for
more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wire shorted to ground), the trim
control module assumes a runaway condition and shuts off the trim motor.
Cycling power returns the unit to normal operating condition.
Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it
worth the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system
(the price was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does
it always work as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd
like to know what to expect. Thanks.
Dean
RV-6A N197DM
Functional (electron) checkout in progress.
>__________________________ Original
>Message________________________________
>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>>
>
>And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick
>forces get too high then simply slow down.
>
>I certainly would not bother with another switch.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
From: | "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net> |
Thank you for the swift replies. I will order the S701-1 and wire it up as per
your instructions. The fog is beginning to clear...
Derek.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144889#144889
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: CH701 Rotax 912 |
I posted some pics of the connector in question, I used a crimper as
specified on Bobs site.
Just go to:
_http://www.701builder.com_ (http://www.701builder.com/)
I put a link at the top of the homepage called Rotax Ignition Wiring.
hope this helps
Brian Unruh
Long Island
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
Matt is very close. Permit me to refine the response
a bit further . . .
>
>Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it
>not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as
>such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn
>on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to
>it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the
>previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring
>against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation
>mechanism?
No, the output of an LR3 is linear DC voltage intended to
drive the field winding of an alternator at up to 3 Amps;
it expects to see a nearly instantaneous response to TINY changes
of DC voltage. The LR3 output varies from as low as 1v in
cruising flight with light loads on the alternator to
some max value just below bus voltage. An internally regulated
alternator expects a fully-on or fully-off command signal;
not a 'throttled', variable DC level. Turning the input
command off after the alternator comes alive has no effect
on most alternators.
For external regulation the field lead is brought out for
connection to the regulator and has a diagram much like so:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/External_Regulator.jpg
. . . while the internally regulated machine looks like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Internal_Regulator.jpg
There's LOTS of "stuff" in that box labeled "REG" that
would totally bumfoozle an LR3 or any other external
regulator.
>Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master
>contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
Don't know about Van's products. Dimensions for the
S701-1 are here:
http://tinyurl.com/3dnmcg
>Thank you for your patience with my questions
My pleasure sir.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Hall <gary.chris(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 11/09/07 |
I appreciate your efforts in trying to provide a service but Yahoo lists
are free and if I have to support you then I'll opt out.
Your choice,
Warm regards,
gary
AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either o
f the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatt
ed
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text e
ditor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=
html&Chapter 07-11-09&Archive=AeroElectric
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=
txt&Chapter 07-11-09&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 11/09/07: 12
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 0. 12:38 AM - If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contributi
on Yet! :-) (Matt Dralle)
> 1. 12:59 AM - Runaway trim (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
> 2. 08:11 AM - Antennae connector (Ernest Christley)
> 3. 10:28 AM - Re: LR-3 Controller (dksington)
> 4. 11:44 AM - Re: Batteries (Kevin Boddicker)
> 5. 01:28 PM - Re: 496 Audio (Dave Saylor)
> 6. 01:45 PM - 396/496 Audio Revisited. (emrath(at)comcast.net)
> 7. 04:18 PM - Wire Protection - Again (Valovich, Paul)
> 8. 04:50 PM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 9. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: LR-3 Controller (Matt Prather)
> 10. 06:41 PM - Re: Antennae connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
> 11. 10:17 PM - Re: Antennae connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 0 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A C
ontribution
> Yet! :-)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its becau
se you haven't
> yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the fir
st
> time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribu
tion
> messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year
to support
> the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don'
t
> you wish PBS worked that way? :-)
>
> You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support r
equests
> messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal ema
il inbox!
> I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it
was
> always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code
, that
> I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite
the bullet
> and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, b
am!
> A working system!
>
> I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributi
ons to support
> the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
> and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also g
oes to
> pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the rather
huge electric
> bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
> up. I run ALL of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locall
y which
> allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utm
ost in
> reliably and performance.
>
> Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Lis
ters such
> as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I acc
ept exactly
> ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
> the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the
Internet
> these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List si
te.
>
>
> If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matro
nics Email
> Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Thank you!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
> [Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. The
re are certain
> circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message.
> These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or
when
> using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the F
orum.
> Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no si
mple way
> to filter them.]
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim
>
>
> Frank is correct:
>
> The folks at the Portland RVators did some testing on the runaway trim
issue
> and confirmed this. While full up or down trim is difficult to counter
-act
> when the aircraft is flying at high speed, simply throttling back and
> slowing down restores sufficient control authority to the pilot that a
safe
> landing can be made.
>
> One thing I have not heard mentioned is elevator trim twitchiness in th
e RV
> aircraft. I had heard some folks mention that there is too much (elect
ric)
> trim twitchiness at high speed and, trim does not respond fast enough w
hen
> the aircraft is flying slow in the pattern. So....I purchased a trim
> control module from F-1 Rocket Boy to solve this (perceived) problem.
I
> have a micro switch that opens when the flaps are down to send a signal
to
> the trim control module to change the trim motor speed. One of the desi
gn
> features of this unit is that it has a runaway trim sensing feature bui
lt
> in. If the trim button is held for more than 5 seconds (ie. a trim wir
e
> shorted to ground), the trim control module assumes a runaway condition
and
> shuts off the trim motor. Cycling power returns the unit to normal
> operating condition.
>
> Does anyone on the list use one of these trim control modules? Is it wo
rth
> the time and effort I had to put into wiring it into my system (the pri
ce
> was reasonable)? And lastly, has it been reliable and does it always w
ork
> as advertised? Since the airplane hasn't flown yet I'd like to know wh
at to
> expect. Thanks.
>
>
> Dean
> RV-6A N197DM
> Functional (electron) checkout in progress.
>
>
>
>> __________________________ Original Message___________________________
_____
>>
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
>> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>>
>>
>> And if you have a fast airplane like an RV or Glassair and the stick
>> forces get too high then simply slow down.
>>
>> I certainly would not bother with another switch.
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector
>
>
> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory
> on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a
> clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for
> this connector? Where could I obtain just one?
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 __________________________
___________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LR-3 Controller
> From: "dksington" <derek(at)sington.net>
>
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does it
not merely
> send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, and as such as
far
> as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to turn on or of
f? If
> this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more to it) then am I
not
> simply doubling up on alternator control, and with the previously docum
ented problems
> with internal regulation am insuring against a reasonably likely future
> failure of the internal regulation mechanism?
>
> Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master con
tactor (ES
> 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
>
> Thank you for your patience with my questions
>
> Derek.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries
>
> Bob,
> You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS.
> Kevin Boddicker
> Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours
> Luana, IA.
>
>
> On Nov 7, 2007, at 7:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Bob,
>>> A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low
>>> priced AA and AAA cells.
>>> You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the
>>> purchase.
>>> I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send
>>> you any cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot
>>> com. 500 cells for $49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per
>>> cell delivered! The cells have a 12 2012 out date. I was
>>> concerned that they might be short dated for that price.
>>> If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I
>>> please let me know, I will send some to you.
>>>
>> Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples
>> from the other gentleman.
>>
>> On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of
>> AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in
>> Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per
>> cell.
>>
>> I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your
>> samples to the data base. Thanks for your
>> time and interest.
>>
>> Bob Nuckolls
>> 6936 Bainbridge Road
>> Wichita, KS 67226-1008
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio
>
>
> Thanks, Ken. I'll pass this on to Jacek, who did most of the grunt wor
k.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenn
eth
> Melvin
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:51 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio
>
> -->
>
> I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecti
ng up
> the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I
can
> now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., deli
vers
> the desired results, loud and clear.
> Kenneth Melvin, RV9A,
> Hillsboro, Oregon.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: emrath(at)comcast.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio Revisited.
>
> Rumen,
> Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
>
> What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the audio p
anel and
> to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radio, if so
subscribed,
> but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel. So for me, it
appears
> using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswitched input is the way
> to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. Alternatively, 1/
8" audio
> could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe using 220 ohm resis
ters,
> to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus have both the IPOD and War
nings
> muted by radio calls. Someone please correct me if this doesn't seem
correct,
> given the below informaton
>
> From: rd2(at)evenlink.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio revisited
>
>
> Thanks for all postings on the subject.
>
> I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone
> through 196, 296 and 396.
>
> To summarize on the AUDIO subject:
>
> In aviation mode:
>
> 296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings
>
> 396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the followin
g
> VOICE warnings:
>
> -Terrain
> -Obstructions
> -500 ft AGL
> -Sink Rate
> -Traffic (if so equipped)
>
> The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio)
are:
>
> 1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the
> Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the powe
r
> cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to t
he
> unit.
>
> The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeake
r)
>
> The volume of the output can be controlled.
>
> Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings
>
>
> 2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance
>
> Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.
>
> The volume of the output can be controlled.
>
>
> So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available au
dio
> (be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio
> available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio out
put
> (3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and
> mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is
> soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out
as
> audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
> equipped), XM audio].
>
> In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
> panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended f
or
> speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.
>
> Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the aud
io
> panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switch
ed
> input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there i
s XM
> audio, it will be always on during ATC communications.
>
> How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preferen
ce;
> there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken int
o
> consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to fee
d it
> to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom).
>
> Rumen
>
> Rumen,
> Thanks for this posting, it is helpful.
>
> What I would like to do is have the audio warnings input to the au
dio panel
> and to be able to listen to my IPOD. One can turn off the XM radi
o, if
> so subscribed, but the unit needs to be always connected to the panel.&
nbsp;
> So for me, it appears using the Voice+ input to the audio panel's unswi
tched input
> is the way to go and use the switched audio inputs for the IPOD. A
lternatively, 1/8"
> audio could be connected in parallel with the IPOD, maybe
> using 220 ohm resisters, to the Audio Panel's switched input and thus
> have both the IPOD and Warnings muted by radio calls. Someo
ne
> please correct me if this doesn't seem correct, given the below informa
ton
>
his);" href="http://mailcenter.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/473491D20003A800000
0136E2205886172089B0E9D030A?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=rd2%40evenlink%2Eco
m&sid=c0">rd2(at)evenlink.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/4
96 Audio revisited
Thanks for all postings on the subject.
I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gon
e
through 196, 296 and 396.
To summarize on the AUDIO subject:<
BR>
In aviation mode:
296 has terrain and obstructions, but no
VOICE warnings
396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as
well as the following
VOICE warnings:
-Terrain
-Obstructio
ns
-500 ft AGL
-Sink Rate
-Traffic (if so equipped)
The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audi
o) are:
1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if no
t using the
Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice-
> ; inst
> ead, the ground of the power
cable is used; voice- is meant for loud
speakers
> with no connection to the
unit.
The Data Cable output is mono
, low
> impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker)
The volume of the output
can be
> controlled.
Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted durin
g warnings
2)
> 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance
Music
> (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings.
The
> volume of the output can be controlled.
So, there is no diff
erence
> between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio
(be it warnings or m
usic)
> and there is no difference between the audio
available from the data
cable
> (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output
(3.5 mm jack). The only
difference
> here is impedance, signal, and
mono/stereo. Volume is controllable i
n
> both cases and XM music is
soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume
controls
> everything coming out as
audio [Terrain, Obstru
> ctions
> , 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so
equipped), XM audio].
In aviation
> mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the
panel bec
ause
> it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for
speaker
and
> the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack.
Fina
lly, the
> audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio
panel o
r intercom
> (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched
input (to be
> always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM
audio
, it will
> be always on during ATC communications.
How to feed the audio fr
om the
> 396/496 is a matter of personal preference;
there are advantages and
disadvantages
> with any approach; all taken into
consideration, my preference is
> to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it
to a soft-muted input (e
=2Eg. intercom).
>
Rumen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 __________________________
___________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Protection - Again
> From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
>
> I'm using the Z13/8 as the basis of my -8A electrical design. Feeling
> pretty smug since no major problems encountered so far with the wiring.
> But as always, the devil is in the details.
>
>
> Just noticed that the 14 AWG wire going from the battery contactor to
> the battery bus has a little * next to it that refers to a note that
> sez: 6 inches or less.
>
>
> I'm using fuse blocks mounted in the right forward baggage compartment
> as the bus location. Wire length is closer to 18 inches than 6 inches -
> although I can rearrange fuse block locations by redrilling. Instead,
> how about using 12 AWG wire instead of 14 AWG?
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> N192NM Reserved (again)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 __________________________
___________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries
>
>
>
>
>> Bob,
>> You should receive the batteries Monday or Tuesday via USPS.
>> Kevin Boddicker
>> Tri Q 200 N7868B 78.6 hours
>> Luana, IA.
>>
>
> Very good sir. I'll put them on the precision
> "battery killer" right away.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9 __________________________
___________
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: LR-3 Controller
> From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
>
>
> Wound field alternators are regulated by adjusting the amount of curren
t
> going through the field windings - several Amps at high output. The LR
3-C
> is designed for an alternator like this. Additionally, the LR3-C is a
> linear regulator meaning that it's field output is not switched on and
off
> (in a pulse width modulated method), but instead continuously adjusted
so
> as to provide the correct field current (and be electrically quiet whil
e
> doing it). If the bus voltage sags a little, the field current is
> increased a little.
>
> Many/most internally regulated alternators don't take their field curre
nt
> from the sense line, but from a connection to the B-lead through the
> regulator circuit. If the LR3-C were wired "around" the internally
> regulated alternator, I predict the output would, at best, be unstable.
> As the bus voltage sagged, the LR3-C would increase the field
> voltage/current, the internal regulator on the alternator would think t
he
> bus voltage was rising quickly, and reduce the field current - at least
> with some bus dynamics.
>
> Additionally, I suspect the LR3-C would be operating at the very edge o
f
> its design curve - the current through the sense line on an internally
> regulated alternator may be exceedingly low, which is not what the LR3-
C
> is likely designed for - it's leakage current through the field output
> might be higher than what the sense line will use - if it's driving a F
ET
> for instance.
>
> Also, I suspect that the overvoltage feature of the LR3-C might not wor
k
> on an internally regulated alternator as some fail modes on these
> alternators don't respond to grounding the sense lead - the alternator
> continues be unregulated.
>
> The bottom line is the that the LR3-C is designed to enhance performanc
e
> in a certain type of circuit, and this isn't it. If you need the featu
res
> like independent over voltage protection you'll be better off adding a
> circuit just for that. I'd imagine that you could sell the LR3-C for
> nearly what you paid for it. Or, buy a compatible, externally regulate
d
> alternator.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>
>> Forgive my ignorance, but why would the LR3-C be incompatible? Does i
t
>> not merely send 'switch-on, switch-off' commands to the alternator, an
d as
>> such as far as the alternator is concerned it is merely being told to
turn
>> on or off? If this is the case (and I am guessing that there is more
to
>> it) then am I not simply doubling up on alternator control, and with t
he
>> previously documented problems with internal regulation am insuring
>> against a reasonably likely future failure of the internal regulation
>> mechanism?
>>
>> Are the dimensions of the S701-1 the same as the stock Vans' master
>> contactor (ES 24115) (which I already have attached to my firewall)?
>>
>> Thank you for your patience with my questions
>>
>> Derek.
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144823#144823
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10 _________________________
___________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connector
y on
>> the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a c
lip
>> ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for thi
s
>> connector? Where could I obtain just one?
>>
>
> Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
> crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
> to be easily removed from the panel for
> maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
> to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
> you're looking for:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
>
> No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
> many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
> see what pops up.
>
> P.S. Here's one:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ynswar
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Problems are the price of progress. )
> ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
> ( Good news weakens me." )
> ( -Charles F. Kettering- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11 _________________________
___________
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connector
y on
>> the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a c
lip
>> ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for thi
s
>> connector? Where could I obtain just one?
>>
>
> Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
> crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
> to be easily removed from the panel for
> maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
> to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
> you're looking for:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
>
> No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
> many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
> see what pops up.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Problems are the price of progress. )
> ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
> ( Good news weakens me." )
> ( -Charles F. Kettering- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antennae connector |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae
>> connectory on the rear. This is the type that locks into the
>> mounting tray with a clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is
>> there a proper name for this connector? Where could I obtain just one?
>
> Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
> crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
> to be easily removed from the panel for
> maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
> to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
> you're looking for:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
>
> No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
> many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
> see what pops up.
>
That's it. Thanks, Bob.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Antennae connector |
Sounds like what I've got on the back of my SL-70.
If it is, Garmin-AT will probably sell you one for an arm and a leg.....
Otherwise - I don't know....
Regardless, I may be looking for the same thing as I am having some trouble with
my SL-70 and want to do some testing.......
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com>
>Sent: Nov 9, 2007 9:19 AM
>To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennae connector
>
>
>I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory
>on the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a
>clip ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for
>this connector? Where could I obtain just one?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Lee Logan" <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 11/08/07 |
This runaway trim issue interests me because I had it happen in my RV-4 on
takeoff. Handled it by slowing down to the new trim speed, but now I'm
building a faster, more powerful airplane and am looking for protection from
a potentially more difficult situation. The TCW system sounds good but I
have a TruTrak ADI Pilot II and was wondering if they are compatible and if
there is any sense in which they would work against each other. Does anyone
know how these two systems would work together? Does the TruTrak provide
any protection from runaway trim itself, or would it be better to have both?
Thanks and regards,
Lee...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: New product announcement |
Bob,
Does this unit allow independent control of multiple units? I'm considering
a solid-state relay deck for control of my trim actuators, one of which can take
up to 5A. This may be the right device for me.
Thanks,
Dan
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EuropaXSA276(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric |
seminar...
I'll fly in.
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: CH701 Rotax 912 |
I posted some pics of the connector in question, I used a crimper as specified
on Bobs site.
Just go to:
http://www.701builder.com
I put a link at the top of the homepage called Rotax Ignition Wiring.
hope this helps
Brian Unruh
Long Island
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Antennae connector |
>I'm buying a used transponder that does not have the atennae connectory on
>the rear. This is the type that locks into the mounting tray with a clip
>ring, and the coax exits out the side. Is there a proper name for this
>connector? Where could I obtain just one?
Sounds like the slip-fit coax connectors
crafted back in the 60's to allow a radio
to be easily removed from the panel for
maintenance leaving the harnesses attached
to the tray. See if this isn't the critter
you're looking for:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
No doubt the supplier listed is but one of
many. Do a net-search on "TED" and "9-30-10" and
see what pops up.
P.S. Here's one:
http://tinyurl.com/ynswar
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Drdavevk30(at)cs.com |
Subject: | Tyco and all its problems |
October 29, 2007 - November 10, 2007
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hi