AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hn
January 04, 2008 - January 12, 2008
I realize this is an old post but the link below:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
returns a page not found, I tried looking manually for the info but seem to
not be able to find it.
Can anyone advise ?
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:15 PM
| Subject: | Re: Tap into antenna coax? |
Don't know how long Jim's had his butt-ugly hand held antenna adapter
article posted. My own version is at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
HOWEVER, the top paragraph of my article cites the preferred way
of breaking into the feedline for your comm antenna . . . put a
male/female junction in the feedline with some excess coiled under
a seat or behind a velcro'ed upholstery panel. The coax "T" will not
work and puts one or both radio's receivers at risk for damage by
the other radio's transmitter.
Bob . . .
>
>
>James E. Clark wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Another option ...
> >
> >King used to make an adapter for their KX99 Handheld that can be used.
> >Basically the mini jack/plug arrangement opens the coax from the panel
and
> >closes the connection to the handheld. It is all done in a neat little
box
> >and you get a mini->coax pigtail.
> >
> >Don't know if they still sell them or not.
> >
> >James
> >
>
>snipped
>
>You can make one of these for yourself if you're handy with a soldering
>iron. Jim Weir actually described construction in an old Kitplanes article.
>http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/KP0203/KP0203.htm
>The design won't make HAM radio guys or RF engineer types happy, but it
>works fine considering the limited use it will get. If you're really
>worried, put it in a little aluminum box.
>
>Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ectric-List:Engine GND |
Frank1
Hey whats up or is that down...good grief with your acro ability I never kn
ow what your attitude might be. Thanks for the response....now off to the g
arage to getter dun......................or is that accomplish the task!!!!
Frank2
From: frank.hinde(at)hp.comTo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.comDate: Thu, 3 Jan
Hey thats what I did and I made it from Corvallis to St George and back....
:)
Yup that will work just fine. Use #2 welding cable for the ultimate in flex
ibility.
Frank1
RV7a 245 hours
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank StringhamSent: Thursday, J
anuary 03, 2008 3:02 PMTo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Aero
Electric-List:Engine GND
Ok so here is the set up...RV7A.....SD-8 on the Vac pad....FWF Ground block
just right of upper center on the firewall. I have a clear run for the eng
ine GND from the port side upper bolt on the SD-8 to the FWF ground block.
Is this acceptable and will it produce a good engine GND. Fran @ SGU....RV7
A.....finishing up the last zillion items before RV grin Time
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Heffley <list(at)toddheffley.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioner |
Paterick
You can position the pins by hand just fine.
Also, I have drilled and filed the wrong positioner to use Dsub pins.
Still use it today.
todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | switch rating question |
You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an
"Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating.
Resistive - Load presents a constant current.
Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something
with a winding, like a motor or contactor)
Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running
current.
If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a
"Incandescent" load.
They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W
bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W.
They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts
that may fail to open or more likely to close.
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
T. Schaefer
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A.
Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you
will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually
the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!)
Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine!
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
Bevan
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | switch rating question |
Switch manufacturers "rate" switches with at least 10"s if not 100's of
thousands of operations in mind. (some even millions) There are few, if any,
switches in an experimental aircraft which will ever see more than hundreds
or maybe a few thousand operations in the lifetime of the aircraft. As Bob N
has stated many times on this list, your switches are much more likely to
fail from lack of use than they are to fail from exceeding their ratings.
Bob McC
>From: "Richard T. Schaefer" <schaefer@rts-services.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
>Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:03:12 -0600
>
>You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an
>"Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating.
>
>
>Resistive - Load presents a constant current.
>
>Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase.
>(Something
>with a winding, like a motor or contactor)
>
>Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running
>current.
>
>
>If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a
>"Incandescent" load.
>
>They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W
>bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W.
>
>They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc)
>contacts
>that may fail to open or more likely to close.
>
>
>r.t.s.
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>T. Schaefer
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
>
>
>Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A.
>
>Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you
>will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually
>the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!)
>
>
>Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine!
>
>
>r.t.s.
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
>
>
>If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
>7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
>2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
>lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
>
>
>Bevan
>
>RV7A wiring
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
>Keill
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
>
>I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
>find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
>methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
>incorrectly?
>
>
>As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
>with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
>the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
>with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
>AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
>below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
>6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
>handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
>about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
>lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
>fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario)
>or
>a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
>
>
>Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
>Support!"
>
>
>Lincoln Keill
>
>Sacramento, CA
>
>RV-7A
>
>
>P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
>system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
>links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
>protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
>nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | switch rating question |
Yes, to clarify...
Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt
halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not
considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a different
location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and fuse. Is this
correct?
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
T. Schaefer
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an
"Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating.
Resistive - Load presents a constant current.
Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something
with a winding, like a motor or contactor)
Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running
current.
If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a
"Incandescent" load.
They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W
bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W.
They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts
that may fail to open or more likely to close.
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
T. Schaefer
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A.
Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you
will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually
the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!)
Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine!
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
Bevan
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | switch rating question |
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags">
>Yes, to clarify...
>
>Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt
>halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not
>considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a
>different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and
>fuse. Is this correct?
>
>Bevan
Correct. What you propose will be fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | switch rating question |
Yes
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
Yes, to clarify...
Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt
halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not
considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a different
location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and fuse. Is this
correct?
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
T. Schaefer
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an
"Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating.
Resistive - Load presents a constant current.
Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something
with a winding, like a motor or contactor)
Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running
current.
If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a
"Incandescent" load.
They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W
bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W.
They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts
that may fail to open or more likely to close.
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
T. Schaefer
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A.
Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you
will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually
the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!)
Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine!
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
Bevan
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap into antenna coax? |
>
>Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the
>commtap
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
This comic-book on crafting a panel
mounted jack to tap into the comm antenna
coax borrowed from this product by
ICOM:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg
Except that the version I proposed was much
more compact:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg
However, both designs relied on a miniature, close-
circuit phone jack similar to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg
which mates with this plug:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Phone_Plug.jpg
The quality of the "closed circuit" switch labeled with
the "!" puts the panel mounted comm radio at risk. Switches
of this variety tend to get funky with age. They're "closed"
at any time the hand held radio is not plugged in such
that the comm radio is connected to the antenna. Corrosion
on these open, low pressure contacts can cause poor
connection to the antenna for the panel mounted radio.
Hence, my loss of enthusiasm for this approach to attaching
the hand held radio to ship's comm antenna. Until a better
idea comes along, consider looping some slack in the comm
antenna feedline through the cockpit and breaking it
with an in-line pair of connectors:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
If you make this joint accessible in the cockpit,
then it's easy to open the connectors and route
the "slack" up to the hand-held's antenna jack.
Consider adding a couple of right-angle adapters
to the end of the antenna coax:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Rt-Angle_Adapt_1.jpg
These can be used to make a tight u-turn for the
antenna feeder such that it will lay tightly against
the back of the radio. A rubber-band will keep it
snug against the radio. This gets around having
the coax make a wide loop above the radio and makes
it much easier to handle in the cockpit.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help with D-Sub pin |
>
>
>Also, anyone know standard order parts for 37 pin D-Sub pin male/ female
>and pins (both) - Mauser or DigiKey? This is to make Avionics
>ground bus.
http://Steinair.com
Dsub pins SA-1018. Get bag of 100.
sockets SA-1017, ditto
SA-1031 housing for sockets.
I couldn't find a housing for pins
but I find it difficult to believe
he doesn't have them too. If it
turns out he doesn't have stock,
drop me a note and I'll mail you
one. They're cheap.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. M. Haught Jr. " <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help with D-Sub pin |
|*My King KX99 handheld radio adapter for Headphone is messing up. I took
it to a radio shop and all the connections were resoldered, but it still
only works about half the time - I suspect several breaks in the wires.
A friend gave me his adapter that came from another type of radio. It
has the two plugs for the headset end but also has the push to talk
wired into the adapter (the King used a plug that inserts into one of
the headset plugs). The other end of the adapter has the correct small
mini plug for the "Phones" jack. However the other connector to the
radio was a screw on type. There are two wires in that cable, one
larger than the other, both with a center insulated wire and a
multistrand surrounding which I assume is shielding.
I know very little about wiring, as I am sure this message
demonstrates! My question is how do I wire the two wires to the
mid-sized miniplug to go to the KX 99? That mini-plug has a tip contact
area, a second contact are a little further back and the shaft contact
area which I assume is the ground.. The plug receptacle on the radio
is marked "MIC". A radio tech told me how to wire it, which I did, and
then he checked it for me saying I had it wired correctly. However,
when I plug it into the radio, it transmits all the time (push to talk
always on?).
Anyone have a wiring diagram for the KX99 and adapter or can give me an
idea on how to wire the mini-plug to the mic receptacle? I've searched
extensively on line and cannot find a KX99 wiring diagram.
M. Haught*|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. M. Haught Jr. " <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | King Hand-held Wiring Diagram or Advice |
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: King KX99 Handheld Schematic or Advice
Date:
From: H. M. Haught Jr. <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20071231091722.05371040(at)pop.central.cox.net>
|*My King KX99 handheld radio adapter for Headphone is messing up. I took
it to a radio shop and all the connections were resoldered, but it still
only works about half the time - I suspect several breaks in the wires.
A friend gave me his adapter that came from another type of radio. It
has the two plugs for the headset end but also has the push to talk
wired into the adapter (the King used a plug that inserts into one of
the headset plugs). The other end of the adapter has the correct small
mini plug for the "Phones" jack. However the other connector to the
radio was a screw on type. There are two wires in that cable, one
larger than the other, both with a center insulated wire and a
multistrand surrounding which I assume is shielding.
I know very little about wiring, as I am sure this message
demonstrates! My question is how do I wire the two wires to the
mid-sized miniplug to go to the KX 99? That mini-plug has a tip contact
area, a second contact are a little further back and the shaft contact
area which I assume is the ground.. The plug receptacle on the radio
is marked "MIC". A radio tech told me how to wire it, which I did, and
then he checked it for me saying I had it wired correctly. However,
when I plug it into the radio, it transmits all the time (push to talk
always on?).
Anyone have a wiring diagram for the KX99 and adapter or can give me an
idea on how to wire the mini-plug to the mic receptacle? I've searched
extensively on line and cannot find a KX99 wiring diagram.
M. Haught*|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)AllenRice.net> |
Check out Aircraft Engravers at www.engravers.net.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156060#156060
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: switch rating question |
Bob,
Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on
lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen,
but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their
instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells
them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this simply
a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real world'?
Your input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
>
>
>
>>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
>>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
>>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =
>>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags">
>>Yes, to clarify...
>>
>>Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt
>>halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not
>>considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a
>>different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and
>>fuse. Is this correct?
>>
>>Bevan
>
> Correct. What you propose will be fine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Settle" <billsettle(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Crimp & Insertion Tool |
Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some AMP-3SK
connectors, and also a source?
Thanks,
Bill Settle
Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some
AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
Thanks,
Bill Settle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: switch rating question |
>
>
>Bob,
>Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on
>lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen,
>but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their
>instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells
>them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this
>simply a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real
>world'? Your input would be appreciated.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool |
>Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
>some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Settle
These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors
with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally
inert these without tools. Further, on the male
pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin
and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
A suitable tool for crimping is available from
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
you're looking for the bct-1
Also see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Tap into antenna coax? (With Corrected Link) |
>
>Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the
>commtap
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
This comic-book on crafting a panel
mounted jack to tap into the comm antenna
coax borrowed from this product by
ICOM:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg
Except that the version I proposed was much
more compact:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg
However, both designs relied on a miniature, close-
circuit phone jack similar to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg
which mates with this plug:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Phone_Plug.jpg
The quality of the "closed circuit" switch labeled with
the "!" puts the panel mounted comm radio at risk. Switches
of this variety tend to get funky with age. They're "closed"
at any time the hand held radio is not plugged in such
that the comm radio is connected to the antenna. Corrosion
on these open, low pressure contacts can cause poor
connection to the antenna for the panel mounted radio.
Hence, my loss of enthusiasm for this approach to attaching
the hand held radio to ship's comm antenna. Until a better
idea comes along, consider looping some slack in the comm
antenna feedline through the cockpit and breaking it
with an in-line pair of connectors:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
If you make this joint accessible in the cockpit,
then it's easy to open the connectors and route
the "slack" up to the hand-held's antenna jack.
Consider adding a couple of right-angle adapters
to the end of the antenna coax:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Rt-Angle_Adapt_1.jpg
These can be used to make a tight u-turn for the
antenna feeder such that it will lay tightly against
the back of the radio. A rubber-band will keep it
snug against the radio. This gets around having
the coax make a wide loop above the radio and makes
it much easier to handle in the cockpit.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Settle" <billsettle(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool |
Thanks Bob, I appreciate it!
Bill Settle.
-------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" :
--------------
>
>
>
> >Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
> >some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bill Settle
>
> These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors
> with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally
> inert these without tools. Further, on the male
> pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
> depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin
> and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
>
> A suitable tool for crimping is available from
> http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
>
> you're looking for the bct-1
>
> Also see:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks Bob, I appreciate it!
Bill Settle.
-------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>:
--------------
> --> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
>
>some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bill Settle
>
> These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock"
plastic connectors
> with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You
can generally
> inert these without tools. Further, on the male
>
pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
> depressing the
retention barb on the side of the pin
> and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
>
> A suitable tool for crimpi
ng is
-= --&
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Merlin" <phil.merlin(at)skynet.be> |
Hello,
Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a circuit
when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the circuit of the
loudspeaker...
As usually thanks for your advice :-)
Philippe
RV9A - starting fuselage
Brussels - Belgium
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headphone jack |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)GMAIL.COM> |
At 11:47 1/5/2008, you wrote:
>Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a
>circuit when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the
>circuit of the loudspeaker...
Is the circuit to be opened electrically isolated from the headphone,
or is the 'hot' source to the jack common to both the headphone and speaker.
I can think of a number of manufacturers that make switching jacks;
Switchcraft and Neutrix come first to mind as quality and non-Asian.
In the States, Digi-key, Mouser, Newark, Allied all sell in small quantities.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Aux Bat Charging Circuit - Small battery limited to |
3 amp charge rate ?
Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal operations.
However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus through a D25 diode
which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small battery during normal
operations to keep it charged. It is a fused circuit and intended to be hot
anytime the main bus is on. That way the Aux Bat should be always charged,
available to run the EFIS before and during starting with no draw on it, and
not drain back if the main bus is off. And no switching required during
normal ops.
The Z35 Light Aux Bat figure
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf is similar
except that I think it is intended to be turned on after starting and not be
available from before to after starting.
My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 amp
charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should be a
resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that the full
size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any danger if the
smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough charging current
to damage it without a limiting resistor.
If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same thing
apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully discharged aux
bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting full current to the
fully discharged battery?
All comments appreciated.
Bill S
7a 80/80
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? |
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
Thanks Bob, with no chance of sparks and a rare shot at battery damage ($35)
it would seem the answer is to simplify as usual.
Thanks Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ?
-->
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
>is not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
>small battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a
>fused circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That
>way the Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS
>before and during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the
main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http:
>//www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
>3 amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
>should be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar every
14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something more
reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between
useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all
that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks
have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is the
problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
shutoff etc.
bobf
On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>
>
>
> >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
> >
> >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
> >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
> >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
> >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
> >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
> >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
> >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
> >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
> >off. And no switching required during normal ops.
> >
> >The Z35 Light Aux Bat
> >figure
> ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
> >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
> >starting and not be available from before to after starting.
> >
> >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
> >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
> should
> >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
> >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
> >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
> >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
> >
> >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
> >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
> >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
> >full current to the fully discharged battery?
>
> The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
> is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
> bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
> rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
> I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
> until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
>
> This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
> repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
> putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
> it to it's 100% state of charge.
>
> On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
> to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
> yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
> rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
> to see it happen often.
>
> If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
> of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
> for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
> even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
> the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
>
> However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
> may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
> discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
> considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
> components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
> count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
> no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
>I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
>every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need
>something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times
>in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short
>flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical
>war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne
>Continental) etc?
>
>And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
>the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
>shutoff etc.
This sounds like your problems go deeper than battery
quality. I can see the occasional instance of poor battery
performance but Concord is a legacy supplier to the
aviation battery industry and 14 months is too short.
How do you expect your battery to perform? Sounds like
your replacement cycle is dependent simply on the ability
to get the engine started. If you had the "golden" battery,
would you replace it based on capacity (ability to run
ship's loads sans alternator for some pre-determined period
of time) or would you be satisfied if it quit cranking the
engine say, 5 years from now instead of 1 year?
Have you ever put a voltmeter on your battery before
disconnecting the charger to see what the "storage
voltage" value is for this charger? Also, how often do
you fly? What is the perceived value in having the charger
at all if you fly at least once a month?
May I suggest an experiment? Go down to your local
Batteries-R-Us store and pick up a 15 to 20 a.h.,
sealed, vented lead acid battery of this form factor:
http://www.batterystore.com/Yuasa/YuasaPDF/NP18-12.pdf
It doesn't need to be this brand but Yuasa is okay
too. Lots of folks make a suitable battery in these
dimensions and terminal style.
If you have a too-big battery box, put blocks of
styrofoam in beside the battery to keep it from
rattling around.
Get an INDEPENDENT multimeter like:
http://tinyurl.com/yume4t
or
http://tinyurl.com/2duxtp
and check your bus voltage in cruising flight. It
should be no lower than 13.8 volts and no higher
than 14.6 with 14.2 being ideal if you have a
regulator adjustment you can set.
After achieving/confirming the proper system
voltage, put your charger on the battery and
check the battery terminal voltage several hours
after parking the airplane. It should be no higher
than 13.5 volts if it's a "smart charger". If
you confirm that it's not a smart-charger, consider
acquiring one of these products:
http://tinyurl.com/35yvz9
or
http://tinyurl.com/ysueag
or
http://tinyurl.com/2uf6qk
You can probably find the last one of these
at Wally-World for under $20.
These are all smart-chargers designed for
topping off and then dropping to long-term
storage mode after 100% charge has been
achieved.
I'm betting that you can report back to us
in a few years that the $40 el-cheeso, svla
battery out-performed the Concorde . . . but
you may well also report that the Concorde
battery was not being well served either in
flight, in the hangar or both.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Bob,
Get a 680 or 925 Odyssey and be done with your worries. If its not a 6
cylinder, then the 680 should be ample for your needs. Highly and
uniformly recommended.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Feldtman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
charge rate ?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need
something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long
times in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting)
short flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a
commerical war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now
Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
the problem although it has the setting for different types and
automatic shutoff etc.
bobf
On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> wrote:
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way
the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus
is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
>< http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
>Bob,
>I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
>I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the battery for a
>full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current draw from
>the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery contactor relay, and the
>strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the strobes were
>turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter across the battery
>before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this normal for a new fully charged
>battery?.
Yes . . .
> After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
>problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when running
>other electrical components?
>I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK. Unfortunately I
>don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another meter if I want
>in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further testing before
>changing-out the voltage regulator?
Check the voltage in flight with a known-good instrument.
Your alternator should boost the battery to 13.8 to 14.6 volts in cruise.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Potter/Brumfield W31 used by Cessna |
It looks the same in the pictures, but
Does anyone know for a fact if Cessna uses the Potter and Brumfield W31
switch breaker as original equipment in their newer restart" line? Thanks Skip
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Gents,
I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with a 12 v system
in my craft. My question is, will an insturment listed as a 14 volt perfom
ok on a 12 v system?
Thx
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156238#156238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote:
> I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with
> a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment
> listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system?
People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to
describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when
at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine
is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming
the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled
by your alternator.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
What Bob is also hinting at is that a "RESISTOR" current limiter does not
allow for proper care and feeding of a battery. The smart battery tenders
that allows proper recovery from a battery in any arbitrary discharge state
is fairly complex and is managed by very smart devices. (Current limited
profiles initially followed by low float current and constant voltage).
If you never let the battery get significantly discharged you do not need to
worry about this complexity. If the fuse popped, check the condition of your
battery, and recover or replace it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ?
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http://ww
w.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
I am building a Kitfox Series 7 and the wiring diagrams show the alternator lines
being tied to a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. This is installed on the
output side of the regulator so I assume it is mainly for audio noise reduction
in the system. My Rotax manual also recommends that I install a capacitor
on each of the fuel pumps for the same reason. I am not an electronics guru
but I do remember blowing up capacitors as a younger kid for fun. I remember
we had to wire the capacitor with reversed polarity to get them to explode but
even the small ones were pretty impressive to say the least! The one I have
in my plane is huge in comparison to the small one I blew up as a kid and looks
as if it could do some serious damage if it went.
for you guys that know more than I do, do I need to be worried about this setup?
And is there another alternative to the capacitor approach to minimize radio
noise?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156244#156244
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Some "14V" equipment will only work when an engine supplied power source is
providing power. We have tried many older 14V avionics in gliders with only
a "12V" battery and they fail rather quickly as the battery voltage drops.
You really need to know what the acceptable voltage range of the equipment
is and decide if you can live with it when that alternator/generator quits!
r.t.s.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem?
On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote:
> I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with
> a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment
> listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system?
People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to
describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when
at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine
is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming
the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled
by your alternator.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone jack |
Hi Philippe-
Take a look at this page from the Mouser catalog:
_http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf_
(http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf)
Maybe you'll see something you can use...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Don G a crit :
>
> Gents,
> I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with a 12 v system
in my craft. My question is, will an insturment listed as a 14 volt perfom
ok on a 12 v system?
>
Don,
I installed electric gyros on a Rotax project.
The so-called '12V' Rotax alternator actually outputs about 13.8-14.2
volts. You'll have no problem, as long as the total current continuous
draw stays below 12 amps.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Bob F.
I amend my earlier posting and concur with Bob N.(I'll bet he feels
relieved). It looks like a system problem more than a battery problem.
Nonetheless, the Odyssey is a heck'va battery.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
charge rate ?
Bob,
Get a 680 or 925 Odyssey and be done with your worries. If its not a 6
cylinder, then the 680 should be ample for your needs. Highly and
uniformly recommended.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Feldtman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
charge rate ?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need
something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long
times in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting)
short flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a
commerical war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now
Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
the problem although it has the setting for different types and
automatic shutoff etc.
bobf
On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> wrote:
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way
the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus
is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
>< http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Concorde battery performance |
>Bob F.
>
>I amend my earlier posting and concur with Bob N.(I'll bet he feels
>relieved). It looks like a system problem more than a battery
>problem. Nonetheless, the Odyssey is a heck'va battery.
>
>Chuck Jensen
Agreed! But event the best battery will produce
dismal performance if not operated within it's
design limits. This is why I suggested that he
get an el-cheeso Batteries-R-Us offering and see
if he can get some good life out of it. This will
happen only if he achieves an operating environment
favorable to batteries . . . of any pedigree.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>I am building a Kitfox Series 7 and the wiring diagrams show the
>alternator lines being tied to a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. This
>is installed on the output side of the regulator so I assume it is mainly
>for audio noise reduction in the system. My Rotax manual also recommends
>that I install a capacitor on each of the fuel pumps for the same
>reason. I am not an electronics guru but I do remember blowing up
>capacitors as a younger kid for fun. I remember we had to wire the
>capacitor with reversed polarity to get them to explode but even the small
>ones were pretty impressive to say the least! The one I have in my plane
>is huge in comparison to the small one I blew up as a kid and looks as if
>it could do some serious damage if it went.
>
>for you guys that know more than I do, do I need to be worried about this
>setup? And is there another alternative to the capacitor approach to
>minimize radio noise?
Capacitors of the style under discussion
have been used by the hundreds of millions
without serious danger to their users or
the equipment in which they are installed.
Capacitors . . . like batteries, propellers,
fuel lines, etc all offer some degree of hazard
when their operational characteristics and limits
are not dutifully observed.
The capacitors are not useful on your fuel
pumps. The capacitor is useful on your alternator
system. If installed with due diligence
to proper technique offers no extraordinary
risks to you or your airplane.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Don G a crit :
>>
>>Gents,
>>I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with a 12
>>v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment listed as a 14
>>volt perfom ok on a 12 v system?
>>
>
>Don,
>
>I installed electric gyros on a Rotax project.
>The so-called '12V' Rotax alternator actually outputs about 13.8-14.2
>volts. You'll have no problem, as long as the total current continuous
>draw stays below 12 amps.
I think his question was centered on the gyro,
not the alternator. He was getting wrapped around
the 12v battery vs 14v system axle.
Don, EVERY vehicle with a 12v battery in it operates
at around 14v when the alternator is producing as
designed. This is because to CHARGE a 12v battery,
you need to produce the energy at a voltage level that
exceeds the battery's voltage by some practical amount.
Any accessory designed and labeled as "12v" should
take this fact of physics into account. Chances
are that your "12-volt gyro" is going to be just
fine on your 14-volt airplane.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Concorde versus Gill |
1/6/2008
Hello Robert Feldtman, Anecdotal information / experience leads me to prefer
Concorde over Gill. This opinion is supported by "The Aviation Consumer"
magazine in their Jan 2008 issue with some data.
You don't say whether you are useing flooded or VRSLA (Valve Regulated
Sealed Lead Acid) Concorde batteries. You might try the VRSLA version if you
have not already.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge
rate
?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar every
14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something more
reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between
useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all
that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks
have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is the
problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
shutoff etc.
bobf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
Appreciate the valuable information - indeed the Odyssey looks super! I do
have a Fluke, which I trust - so will make the various measurements. Flad I
asked the question so the entire list can learn about this ever so common
problem with airplanes - battery problems! Main problem is I don't fly
enough!
bobf
On 1/6/08, Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> Bob F.
>
> I amend my earlier posting and concur with Bob N.(I'll bet he feels
> relieved). It looks like a system problem more than a battery problem.
> Nonetheless, the Odyssey is a heck'va battery.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Chuck Jensen
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:05 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
> charge rate ?
>
> Bob,
>
> Get a 680 or 925 Odyssey and be done with your worries. If its not a 6
> cylinder, then the 680 should be ample for your needs. Highly and uniformly
> recommended.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Robert
> Feldtman
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:02 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
> charge rate ?
>
> I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
> every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something
> more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between
> useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all
> that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks
> have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc?
>
> And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
> the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
> shutoff etc.
>
> bobf
>
> On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> > nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
> > >
> > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
> > is
> > >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
> > >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
> > >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
> > small
> > >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
> > >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way
> > the
> > >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
> > >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus
> > is
> > >off. And no switching required during normal ops.
> > >
> > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat
> > >figure
> > ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
> > >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
> > >starting and not be available from before to after starting.
> > >
> > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
> > 3
> > >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
> > should
> > >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
> > that
> > >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
> > >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
> > >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
> > >
> > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
> > >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
> > >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
> >
> > >full current to the fully discharged battery?
> >
> > The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
> > is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
> > bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
> > rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
> > I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
> > until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
> >
> > This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
> > repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
> > putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
> > it to it's 100% state of charge.
> >
> > On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
> > to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
> > yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
> > rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
> > to see it happen often.
> >
> > If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
> > of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
> > for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
> > even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
> > the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
> >
> > However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
> > may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
> > discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
> > considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
> > components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
> > count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
> > no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
> >
> > *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
I've just started to build an X-Air H with a Jabiru 2200A on the front and am looking
at adapting Z-20 for my VFR needs. This is the first time both building
a plane and getting this far into ANY electronics for me, so apologies up front
for dumb questions.
1. If my battery (RG) is on the firewall, a) would this change anything in the
standard design and b) what would I be safe installing engine side of the firewall?
2) Having flown spam cans most of my flying career, is it really OK without an
Avionics master? I've read the theory, but all of the bits haven't formed a neat
line in my head yet!
3) I'm putting together a Bill of Materials for this design - has anyone done this
already?
4) Has anyone amended/added to Z-20 in the light of experience?
Thanks in advance.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156349#156349
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | switch rating question |
Bob, in your document, you state:
"...For regulators that use the
field supply line to also sense bus voltage, I'll routinely use
20AWG wire in a 3 amp circuit! This is a voltage drop
consideration. Some regulators become unstable with mere
millivolts of uncertainty about bus voltage. A 22AWG field
supply, 5 feet long inserts 240 millivolts of "rubber band" in
the regulator's sense circuit with a 3 amp load. Dropping to
20AWG drops the uncertainty to 150 millivolts."
I experienced this problem in my RV-9A using 20 AWG wiring. It seems that
the sum of all of the voltage drops through wire, connections, contactor,
master bus, breaker and switch was enough to excite instability in my
voltage regulator. This lead to pulsating alternator output and
over-voltage alarms. Replacing a defective master switch helped with the
overvoltage, but the pulsating voltage was still apparent.
I fixed it by adding the circuit shown on the link below. It involved
adding some 16AWG wiring an automotive relay, a couple of diodes and a
fusible link. All of the wiring was firewall-forward, so it's pretty
stratightforward. The overvoltage crowbar still works with this circuit,
turning off the relay. I've added secondary overvoltage protection in case,
for some reason, the relay sticks shut during an overvoltage event that
triggers the crowbar.
Now I get rock-steady voltage regulation.
Vern Little RV-9A.
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/Tips.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: January 5, 2008 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
-->
>
>
>Bob,
>Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on
>lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen,
>but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their
>instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells
>them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this
>simply a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real
>world'? Your input would be appreciated.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
Thanks Bob for the reply. I figured the capacitors on the pumps were not necessary
and therefore wired them up last night without them. I do that the capacitor
on the alternator wired per your instructions in the Aeroelectric book.
Thanks again for the response.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156406#156406
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Gilles,
Thx pard, You are reading me right. I thought it surely should work ok, but thought
I oughtta ask around, since the investment in an Electric Artifical horizon
is pretty substantial.
Bob,
Thx also, but I think the any aircraft with a Rotax 912 for power is classified
as a 12 volt system not 14..(I think). My confusion has arrived when looking
at all the Attitude Gyros out there, they are listed by voltage in several different
ways. Some say 10 to 32v...some say 14...some say 24 or 28V..and on none
of the manufacturers website could I find anything listed about minimum voltage,
other than some will show the flag when volts get to low...but none say HOW
low...
I just love these forums,,for they bring fellas with practical experience together
with fellas who have not been down a particular road yet, and all so very
easily.
Smooth air and blue skies to you all!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156414#156414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
Hi Bob:
I'm in the beginning phase of designing my electrical system. The
following are the particulars of my setup:
Aircraft Mission - IFR (IMC is a likelihood), night and remote
backcountry operations.
Engine - Lycoming IO-540.
Glass Panel - One Dynon D180 EFIS/EMS and one Dynon D120 EFIS
both with internal battery backup. They are supposed to be able
to cross-display via Dynon's D-SAB.
Avionics - Garmin GMA-340 Audio, SL30 Nav/Com, SL40 Com, GTX 327
Transponder, GPS 496, Dynon AOA/Heated pitot tube. All of
the avionics were pre-wired by Approach/FastStack using their connecting
hub. The GPS 496 has internal batteries as well as an
external power source. I also have a ICOM IC-A23 handheld Com/VOR that
I always carry with me.
Electronic Ignition - LASAR controller with dual Slick mags.
One mag is equiped with a sensor for the LASAR system and
the other is impulse coupled. Both are inop while the electronic system
is operating. The system has the "Bush Kit" which
is supposed to default to operating on the mags alone in the event of
electrical or software failure. The controller is supposed
to operate with voltages down to 5.5volts.
Vacuum System - None
Alternator/Regulator - B&C L-60 Alternator and B&C LR3C-14
Regulator.
Fuel Injection - Bendix style fuel injection with Airfllow
Performance auxiliary fuel pump.
Electrical Controls - Three axis RAC trim system, Electric
flaps, Electric cowl flaps.
Lighting - Dual Strobe lights, Nav Lights, Dual taxi lights,
Dual landing lights, Dual "Type C4A" military style cockpit lights.
Autopilot - TruTrak Digiflight II two-axis autopilot.
Battery(s) - My intent is to use the Odyssey series battery(s).
Before I go any further with the design I need to make the following
decisions:
1. Single or Dual Alternator. If dual alternator, size of second
alternator and type of second regulator.
2. Single or Dual Battery. If dual battery, isolated systems or
combined and capacity of each battery.
3. Glass Panel alone or Glass Panel with back-up "Steam Gauges",
Airspeed, Altimeter, Turn Coordinator, Compass.
I have read through Sections 2, 3 and 17 of your book several times as
well as the wiring diagrams and various articles on your site. These
offer a great amount of information and advice which I'm sure would
allow a knowledgeable person to make the proper decisions. However, my
knowledge, experience and confidence are limited so I would like to
confirm with you my interpretation of the information and get your
confirmation/critique thereof. Here goes:
The first is that designing for complete battery failure i.e. a
dead short that would take down the whole system in NOT
necessary. This seems to be covered well on page 17-11 in a
paragraph that contains the following, "Last, the antiquated
concerns for battery "failure"....RG battery reliability....drives the
probability of gross battery failure to zero." However, I would
like to confirm that the Odyssey batteries would fall under the same
class as "RG battery reliability" and that I would NOT need
to design for battery failure given my intended mission and battery
selection. Would you concur with that??
Regarding decision number #1: Your comments on several pages of
sec. 17 clearly indicate your preference for dual
alternators. My setup in heavily dependent on electrical systems for
normal operations. Based on that and on your
comments, I would opt for a second alternator using B&C SD-20 Alternator
and B&C SB1B-14 Standby Controller. Given the need of a second
alternator, the weight penalty between the 20amp and 8 amp models is 3
pounds. It would seem the 20amp would provide near
normal operations for as long as it works should the primary alternator
fail. Would you concur with that??
Regarding decision number #2: This has several sub-parts.
A - Your comments in sec. 17 seem to indicate that with a
dual alternator setup as I opted for in #1, dual batteries with
isolated systems are NOT necessary as a design point for
in-flight electrical failure. I would like to avoid the dual
battery contactors and the crossfeed contactor by using a
single battery source. Would you concur with that?? If it
makes a difference, the battery(s), regulators and LASAR
controller will be located on the cabin side of the firewall.
B - One of the mission requirements is backcountry
operations. Given that, one my design points was the ability to start
the plane with a completely dead primary (cranking) battery,
say as a result of leaving the master on. That is the reason I
opted for the LASAR system with the bush kit. However, given my
configuration I would need some sort of standby
electrical power. To that end I am considering two options:
Option 1: Design in a permanent Non-Cranking (Aux)
battery and bus as shown in fig. Z-35. to power the Fuel Pump,
LASAR system, and one EFIS/EMS.
Option 2: Design in an external power plug for the
fuel pump ONLY and carry a small battery with me during
backcountry operations ONLY. With my configuration I do
not need the EFIS/EMS or the LASAR system to
function to just start the engine. The only thing I really need is
a few seconds of fuel pump operation to pressurize the
system in order to hand prop the engine. If I was backcountry I would
have 12 volts of battery power someplace
anyway.
My choice would be for Option 2. Would you concur
with that???
C - Odyssey offers several batteries ranging in
capacity form 14 to 28AH, in cranking power from 535 to 925CCA
and in weight from 12.0 to 26.0 lbs. In the unlikely
event of the same flight failure of both alternator/regulator systems
opted for in #1, and according to the method used on
page 17-6, any of the batteries would satisfy the requirements
of my E-bus. However, I am not so sure about starting power
for normal operations. My engine is fuel injected and
high compression. My space limitations would preclude me from
installing the 28AH/925CCA/26lb battery. That
would leave two preferred batteries; The PC545 (14AH/545CCA/12.6lbs) and
the PC680 (17AH/680CCA/15.4lbs). If necessary I
could install two of either the PC545 or PC680 batteries wired together
to act as one. My first preference would be a
single PC680, second would be two of the PC545's and lastly two of the
PC680's.
Here I would simply ask for your recommendation as
to which way to go??.
Regarding decision #3: Well this started out to be a long and
involved question but as I was typing out my reasoning and
explanation, I made the decision to opt for the back up gauges. I
intend to file IFR for trips and that means at some point I
will probably be in IMC and there is just no way that I am going into
IMC without them. Thanks for helping me get that one out of
the way. Its been bothering me for months.
There are a couple of other questions I have:
On page 17-10 you say, "When you trade generators for
alternators, loss of a battery contactor may well precipitate total loss
of electrical power. Alternators, don't run well without a battery".
Yet when I look at Figs 17-2,3,4,5,6, and 8, all of them place the Alt
field switches on the main bus with the contactor in the path to the
battery. If I understand your statement correctly, it seems that if you
loose a single contactor in any except fig 17-5 & 6, Dual Batteries, you
would lose all charging systems. Shouldn't there be a pathway to
energize the Alt fields thru the E bus in case of a contactor failure.
Is my reasoning correct?? It looks like Fig Z-13/20 does that for the
Aux Alt only and Fig Z-12 doesn't for either Alt. Is that correct??
Wouldn't you want to be able to energize both Alt systems from the
E-bus in case of contactor failure with a single battery??? Or
alternatively, what about two contactors for a single battery??? They're
cheap enough??? Would that work???
I really don't understand what P-leads are or the difference
between P-mags and E-mags. What do I have with the LASAR system??? I
looked but couldn't find any articles to explain mag operation or what
they are. Could you point be to the proper article???
Thanks a lot Bob.
Mark Richards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-20 Adaptation |
>
>I've just started to build an X-Air H with a Jabiru 2200A on the front and
>am looking at adapting Z-20 for my VFR needs. This is the first time both
>building a plane and getting this far into ANY electronics for me, so
>apologies up front for dumb questions.
>
>1. If my battery (RG) is on the firewall, a) would this change anything in
>the standard design and b) what would I be safe installing engine side of
>the firewall?
Been there, done that. About half the FA fleet
has batteries forward of the firewall; they live
just fine up there.
>2) Having flown spam cans most of my flying career, is it really OK
>without an Avionics master? I've read the theory, but all of the bits
>haven't formed a neat line in my head yet!
If understanding the theory hasn't served you well
then all you have left is faith in a tradition
for which there is no demonstrable science.
I'd rather see you comfortable with your decision
than to adopt a practice that you cannot personally
trust. Put in the AV Master if it assuages any
concerns.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 296 Audio Output |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am installing a Garmin 296 GPS into my Zodiac 601XL build. I am also installing
a PS Engineering PM501 intercom. I am pretty much up to snuff on the NMEA
data output wires that will talk to my Dynon and Digitrack autopilot. I also
see an "alarm" wire and audio positive and negative wires and they have me a
bit confused.
The Garmin manual says the alarm wire is only for marine applications, but says
no more about it's functionality. The manual also says the audio wires are only
for automotive speaker use and are not for an intercom system.
I am guessing that when wearing headsets combined with the ambient engine noise,
I will not be able to hear the Garmin's built-in beeper when course, terrain
or airspace alerts pop up. How have others connected these GPS alerts into their
audio systems??
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156516#156516
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
1/7/2008
Hello Steve, These folks would be happy to sell you one:
http://www.headsetsinc.com/options_and_access.htm
Also the Aircraft Spruce catalog has many listed:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-----------------------------------------------
From: "Steve" <sham(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Mic noise
I am in need of two mics for a DRE 6000 and a David Clark headset. I
have a mic hungry puppy. Does anyone know a source for headset mics??
Thanks Steve Ham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 Audio Output |
I have pasted the contents of another email I saved from Dave Saylor dated
11/06/07 I saved that might help.
Allen
--------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a
very simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output
along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are
labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that
terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car.
I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires
connected to the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF
(nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through
various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the
"voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything
worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the
voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings
and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming
transmissions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor,
then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other
unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm
resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm
resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals.
I don't know what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I
always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect
the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working
the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>DaveG601XL
>>>Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 296 Audio Output
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I am installing a Garmin 296 GPS into my Zodiac 601XL build.
>>> I am also installing a PS Engineering PM501 intercom. I am
>>>pretty much up to snuff on the NMEA data output wires that
>>>will talk to my Dynon and Digitrack autopilot. I also see
>>>an "alarm" wire and audio positive and negative wires and
>>>they have me a bit confused.
>>>
>>>The Garmin manual says the alarm wire is only for marine
>>>applications, but says no more about it's functionality.
>>>The manual also says the audio wires are only for automotive
>>>speaker use and are not for an intercom system.
>>>
>>>I am guessing that when wearing headsets combined with the
>>>ambient engine noise, I will not be able to hear the
>>>Garmin's built-in beeper when course, terrain or airspace
>>>alerts pop up. How have others connected these GPS alerts
>>>into their audio systems??
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>--------
>>>David Gallagher
>>>601 XL, tail and wings completed,
>>>fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156516#156516
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
KABOOOM!!!!
Come on Bob.
. . . a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right . . .
-Thomas Paine 1776-
The question was about using a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. The point has
been raised that there is every reason to move this up to a 22,000 microfarad
100V or more and avoid early failures caused by load dump transients, and various
insults.
25V does not provide enough headroom in this application. There's zero reason to
skimp.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156532#156532
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
Al,
Fantastic, thanks for posting. It is rather difficult to find good
custom aircraft shops in the NE.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AlRice
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Labeling
Check out Aircraft Engravers at www.engravers.net.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156060#156060
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
>Hi Bob:
>
>I'm in the beginning phase of designing my electrical system. The
>following are the particulars of my setup:
>
> Aircraft Mission - IFR (IMC is a likelihood), night and remote
> backcountry operations.
> Engine - Lycoming IO-540.
> Glass Panel - One Dynon D180 EFIS/EMS and one Dynon D120 EFIS
> both with internal battery backup. They are supposed to be able
> to cross-display via Dynon's D-SAB.
> Avionics - Garmin GMA-340 Audio, SL30 Nav/Com, SL40 Com, GTX 327
> Transponder, GPS 496, Dynon AOA/Heated pitot tube. All of
> the avionics were pre-wired by Approach/FastStack using their connecting
> hub. The GPS 496 has internal batteries as well as an
> external power source. I also have a ICOM IC-A23 handheld Com/VOR that I
> always carry with me.
> Electronic Ignition - LASAR controller with dual Slick mags. One
> mag is equiped with a sensor for the LASAR system and the
> other is impulse coupled. Both are inop while the electronic system is
> operating. The system has the "Bush Kit" which is
> supposed to default to operating on the mags alone in the event of
> electrical or software failure. The controller is supposed
> to operate with voltages down to 5.5volts.
> Vacuum System - None
> Alternator/Regulator - B&C L-60 Alternator and B&C LR3C-14
> Regulator.
> Fuel Injection - Bendix style fuel injection with Airfllow
> Performance auxiliary fuel pump.
> Electrical Controls - Three axis RAC trim system, Electric
> flaps, Electric cowl flaps.
> Lighting - Dual Strobe lights, Nav Lights, Dual taxi lights, Dual
> landing lights, Dual "Type C4A" military style cockpit lights.
> Autopilot - TruTrak Digiflight II two-axis autopilot.
> Battery(s) - My intent is to use the Odyssey series battery(s).
>
>Before I go any further with the design I need to make the following
>decisions:
>
> 1. Single or Dual Alternator. If dual alternator, size of second
> alternator and type of second regulator.
> 2. Single or Dual Battery. If dual battery, isolated systems or
> combined and capacity of each battery.
> 3. Glass Panel alone or Glass Panel with back-up "Steam
> Gauges", Airspeed, Altimeter, Turn Coordinator, Compass.
>
>I have read through Sections 2, 3 and 17 of your book several times as
>well as the wiring diagrams and various articles on your site. These
>offer a great amount of information and advice which I'm sure would allow
>a knowledgeable person to make the proper decisions. However, my
>knowledge, experience and confidence are limited so I would like to
>confirm with you my interpretation of the information and get your
>confirmation/critique thereof. Here goes:
>
> The first is that designing for complete battery failure i.e. a
> dead short that would take down the whole system in
> NOT necessary. This seems to be covered well on page
> 17-11 in a paragraph that contains the following, "Last, the
> antiquated concerns for battery "failure"....RG battery
> reliability....drives the probability of gross battery failure to
> zero." However, I would like to confirm that the Odyssey
> batteries would fall under the same class as "RG battery reliability" and
> that I would NOT need to design for battery failure given my
> intended mission and battery selection. Would you concur with that??
>
> Regarding decision number #1: Your comments on several pages of
> sec. 17 clearly indicate your preference for
> dual alternators. My setup in heavily dependent on
> electrical systems for normal operations. Based on that and on
> your comments, I would opt for a second alternator
> using B&C SD-20 Alternator and B&C SB1B-14 Standby Controller. Given
> the need of a second alternator, the weight penalty between the
> 20amp and 8 amp models is 3 pounds. It would seem
> the 20amp would provide near normal operations for as
> long as it works should the primary alternator fail. Would you concur
> with that??
>
Is it your design goal to have 100% capability of
the panel with one alternator out . . . or sufficient
snort to comfortably complete the mission?
> Regarding decision number #2: This has several sub-parts.
>
> A - Your comments in sec. 17 seem to indicate that with a
> dual alternator setup as I opted for in #1, dual batteries
> with isolated systems are NOT necessary as a design point
> for in-flight electrical failure. I would like to avoid the
> dual battery contactors and the crossfeed
> contactor by using a single battery source. Would you concur with
> that?? If it makes a difference, the battery(s),
> regulators and LASAR controller will be located on the cabin side of the
> firewall.
>
>
> B - One of the mission requirements is backcountry
> operations. Given that, one my design points was the ability to
> start the plane with a completely dead primary (cranking)
> battery, say as a result of leaving the master on.
Why would you even consider that? You're obviously very
concerned about NOT having necessary things operate 100%
of the time but stacking lots of hardware on top of the
probability that a pilot walks away from the airplane leaving
things turned on is running off in the wrong direction.
The most reliable system is that which has the fewest parts.
The most reliable flight system has a minimum of options for
the pilot consider when something is not working. A simple
flashing low voltage warning light (comes with the LR3) tells
you that a master switch is ON after engine shutdown . . .
so that scenario is unworthy of consideration . . .
> That is the reason I opted for the LASAR system with the
> bush kit. However, given my configuration I would need some sort of
> standby electrical power. To that end I am
> considering two options:
>
> Option 1: Design in a permanent Non-Cranking (Aux)
> battery and bus as shown in fig. Z-35. to power the Fuel
> Pump, LASAR system, and one EFIS/EMS.
>
> Option 2: Design in an external power plug for the
> fuel pump ONLY and carry a small battery with me
> during backcountry operations
> ONLY. With my configuration I do not need the EFIS/EMS or the LASAR
> system to function to just start the
> engine. The only thing I really need is a few seconds of fuel pump
> operation to pressurize the system in order to hand
> prop the engine. If I was backcountry I would have 12 volts of battery
> power someplace anyway.
>
> My choice would be for Option 2. Would you concur
> with that???
>
> C - Odyssey offers several batteries ranging in
> capacity form 14 to 28AH, in cranking power from 535 to
> 925CCA and in weight from 12.0 to 26.0 lbs. In
> the unlikely event of the same flight failure of both
> alternator/regulator systems opted for in #1, and
> according to the method used on page 17-6, any of the batteries would
> satisfy the requirements of my E-bus. However, I am
> not so sure about starting power for normal operations. My engine is
> fuel injected and high compression. My space
> limitations would preclude me from installing the 28AH/925CCA/26lb
> battery. That would leave two preferred
> batteries; The PC545 (14AH/545CCA/12.6lbs) and the PC680
> (17AH/680CCA/15.4lbs). If necessary I could install
> two of either the PC545 or PC680 batteries wired together to act as
> one. My first preference would be a single PC680,
> second would be two of the PC545's and lastly two of the PC680's.
>
> Here I would simply ask for your recommendation as to
> which way to go??.
>
> Regarding decision #3: Well this started out to be a long and
> involved question but as I was typing out my reasoning
> and explanation, I made the decision to opt for the back up
> gauges. I intend to file IFR for trips and that means at some point
> I will probably be in IMC and there is just no way that I am
> going into IMC without them. Thanks for helping me get that
> one out of the way. Its been bothering me for months.
>
>There are a couple of other questions I have:
>
> On page 17-10 you say, "When you trade generators for
> alternators, loss of a battery contactor may well precipitate total loss
> of electrical power. Alternators, don't run well without a
> battery". Yet when I look at Figs 17-2,3,4,5,6, and 8, all of them place
> the Alt field switches on the main bus with the contactor in the path to
> the battery. If I understand your statement correctly, it seems that if
> you loose a single contactor in any except fig 17-5 & 6, Dual Batteries,
> you would lose all charging systems. Shouldn't there be a pathway to
> energize the Alt fields thru the E bus in case of a contactor
> failure. Is my reasoning correct?? It looks like Fig Z-13/20 does that
> for the Aux Alt only and Fig Z-12 doesn't for either Alt. Is that
> correct?? Wouldn't you want to be able to energize both Alt systems from
> the E-bus in case of contactor failure with a single battery??? Or
> alternatively, what about two contactors for a single battery??? They're
> cheap enough??? Would that work???
The z-figures are crafted to offer comfortable continued
flight to intended destination while having suffered the
failure of one piece of the DC power generation and distribution
system.
>
> I really don't understand what P-leads are or the difference
> between P-mags and E-mags. What do I have with the LASAR system???
A lot of unnecessarily complex and expensive hardware.
> I looked but couldn't find any articles to explain mag operation or
> what they are. Could you point be to the proper article???
I'm not sure it would benefit you to delve into the technical
merits of the various ignition systems at this point. You're
getting wrapped around too many axles at the same time.
Unless you're anticipating replacing the Lasar system with
something else based on new knowledge, the I'll suggest you
go with what you have.
If I were building your airplane, I'd figure out a way to
make Z-13 work. The Lasar system doesn't need extra-ordinarily
reliable electrical energy . . . that's why it was designed
that way . . . which is true of the PMag as well. But Z-14
can and does offer the ultimate in overall system reliability
and versatility for keeping plenty of stuff on the panel
working in spite of one and in some cases two failures of
equipment on one tank full of fuel.
It's my recommendation that you go with Z-14 as published
and start filling out your load analysis forms for all the
busses. Go to my website and search on "load analysis". Then
print out copies of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf
for each of the four buses and decide what items will
be fed from each bus.
I presume that you presently fly the same kinds of missions
in a type certificated aircraft. Know that ANY of the choices
offered in the Z-figures will offer you a "step up" from
that which is already flown in hundreds of thousands of
spam-cans for nearly 100 years. Electrical system failures
as the precipitating event in a disaster are an exceedingly
tiny portion of root cause.
Don't spend a lot of time worrying this. Your craftsmanship
is going to have a stronger influence on success than selection
of parts and/or architecture.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296 Audio Output |
David Gallagher,
I didn't think the 296 provides audio when in Aviation mode. At least mine
did not...to my knowledge. I am using the same power/data cord for my 396 so
perhaps the audio wires are for other xx6's.
Dale Ensing
-list(at)matronics.com>.
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 296 Audio Output
>
>
> I am installing a Garmin 296 GPS into my Zodiac 601XL build. I am also
> installing a PS Engineering PM501 intercom. I am pretty much up to snuff
> on the NMEA data output wires that will talk to my Dynon and Digitrack
> autopilot. I also see an "alarm" wire and audio positive and negative
> wires and they have me a bit confused.
>
> The Garmin manual says the alarm wire is only for marine applications, but
> says no more about it's functionality. The manual also says the audio
> wires are only for automotive speaker use and are not for an intercom
> system.
>
> I am guessing that when wearing headsets combined with the ambient engine
> noise, I will not be able to hear the Garmin's built-in beeper when
> course, terrain or airspace alerts pop up. How have others connected
> these GPS alerts into their audio systems??
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, tail and wings completed,
> fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156516#156516
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-20 Adaptation |
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Bob. On the battery front, my question was aimed more at what electrical
stuff would I be safe putting on the engine side of the firewall, rather than
the battery itself.
Could you also please clarify for me exactly what part you had in mind for the
crowbar OV module connected to the DC master switch in Z-20?
Many thanks.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156548#156548
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>KABOOOM!!!!
>
>Come on Bob.
>
>. . . a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right . . .
>
> -Thomas Paine 1776-
>
>The question was about using a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. The
>point has been raised that there is every reason to move this up to a
>22,000 microfarad 100V or more and avoid early failures caused by load
>dump transients, and various insults.
>
>25V does not provide enough headroom in this application. There's zero
>reason to skimp.
Really? Isn't that the reason we put ov
protection in place that trips out at 16+
volts? The capacitor is no more vulnerable
than say a radio.
In 20 years of writing for the OBAM aircraft
community, I've had one guy suffer a capacitor
failure on a Rotax powered Kitfox. He wired it
in backwards. The capacitor didn't blow up, it
opened the pressure relief valve in the top
and oozed ugly gooey stuff.
Are you telling us that the makers of these
devices are failing to tell us about the
hazards of misapplication or mistreatment
of their product? The battery guys put pressure
relief valves in their products too. It is
reasonable to suppose there's a well considered
reason for that?
Yes, I've blown up an aluminum electrolytic
but it too was in backwards and that was in 1956.
Let us take care lest we elevate an exceedingly
remote hazard to levels unworthy of learned
discussion.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 296 Audio Output |
I've played around with this in aviation mode. I connected one of the audio
output signals into my audio system, and obtained voice alerts.
Unfortunately, the only alerts are for power fail and when you set the
volume. Nothing else. I'm hoping Garmin will add aviation voice alerts in
future... But Garmin is not big on feature enhancements. It may have
something to do with liability.
As for the alarm output, I've played around but cannot get it operating in
aviation mode.
BTW, I tied the audio output Voice+ into the headset bus of a Sigtronics
SPA-400 intercom using a Vx Aviation AMX-1A audio mixer(www.vx-aviation.com)
Alternatively, you could do the same with a 510 ohm resistor.
Vern Little
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DaveG601XL
Sent: January 7, 2008 5:45 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 296 Audio Output
-->
I am installing a Garmin 296 GPS into my Zodiac 601XL build. I am also
installing a PS Engineering PM501 intercom. I am pretty much up to snuff on
the NMEA data output wires that will talk to my Dynon and Digitrack
autopilot. I also see an "alarm" wire and audio positive and negative wires
and they have me a bit confused.
The Garmin manual says the alarm wire is only for marine applications, but
says no more about it's functionality. The manual also says the audio wires
are only for automotive speaker use and are not for an intercom system.
I am guessing that when wearing headsets combined with the ambient engine
noise, I will not be able to hear the Garmin's built-in beeper when course,
terrain or airspace alerts pop up. How have others connected these GPS
alerts into their audio systems??
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156516#156516
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
. . . a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right . . .
-Thomas Paine 1776-
> Really? Isn't that the reason we put ov protection in place that trips out at
16+ volts?
Any decent overvoltage module does not trip out in time to prevent OV damage to
the capacitor during load dump. Let's not depend on the OV protection to save
out poorly specified capacitor. Really Bob....!
> The capacitor is no more vulnerable than say a radio.
A radio has some sophisticated voltage clamping on its input. So you are wrong.
> In 20 years of writing for the OBAM aircraft community, I've had one guy suffer
a capacitor failure on a Rotax powered Kitfox. He wired it
> in backwards. The capacitor didn't blow up, it opened the pressure relief valve
in the top and oozed ugly gooey stuff.
In my 40 years of writing about and studying electronics, I've seen hundreds of
capacitor failures. Most of the big electrolytics failed internally by having
greatly reduced capacitance or excessive resistive loads or a variety of other
problems that did not involve explosions. Really Bob....!
> Are you telling us that the makers of these devices are failing to tell us about
the hazards of misapplication or mistreatment of their product? The battery
guys put pressure relief valves in their products too. It is reasonable to suppose
there's a well considered reason for that?
What are you ranting about? I have no clue.
> Yes, I've blown up an aluminum electrolytic but it too was in backwards and that
was in 1956. Let us take care lest we elevate an exceedingly remote hazard
to levels unworthy of learned discussion.
> Bob . . .
What is you problem, Bob? Why not just say..."Yes, that is probably right." Your
version of a "learned discussion" eludes me. Backing up and taking another think
at an issue would not decrease my respect for you.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156567#156567
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
Bob:
You're right. Ignorance is bliss. Z-14 it is.
Thanks.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I have a really great idea for the panel of our RV and I wanted to solicit
some help from the liters out there. We are using the dual screen AFS-3500
for our panel and I wanted to create an annunciator panel to sit next to the
AFS in a vertical config. Here is my idea.
Picture if you will a dual screen AFS setup in an RV-7A panel with a radio
stack just slightly right of the middle. Just to the left of the radio
stack and just to the right of the pilot side AFS is an annunciator panel
with the following dimensions: 7" tall and 1.5" wide. There are
approximately 12 individual annunciated items (pick what you want). The
visible part of the annunciator panel itself is a reverse engraved acrylic
installed in the panel.
Here is the problem:
I am looking for a method or product to "cage" the LED lighting for each
individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get bleed over
light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
I have the wiring, connectors and case already laid out on paper and that is
not my problem and this is not the issue; my only stumbling block is a way
to 'cage' the lights behind the acrylic panel that is visible.
Does anyone out there know of a company or have an idea of a product to use
to accomplish the caging of the lights only?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-20 Adaptation |
>
>Thanks Bob. On the battery front, my question was aimed more at what
>electrical stuff would I be safe putting on the engine side of the
>firewall, rather than the battery itself.
EVERYONE would rather you didn't install their
stuff under the cowl but nothing we build these
days is at-risk for taking up residence next
door to the engine.
>Could you also please clarify for me exactly what part you had in mind for
>the crowbar OV module connected to the DC master switch in Z-20?
There are articles on the website to craft your
own. I'm aware of dozens of successful DIY projects.
Or you can purchase ready made from B&C at
http://bandc.biz Look for "OVM-14"
Also, I believe Eric Jones has one or more OV
protection products that would be adaptable to
your task.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
>I have a really great idea for the panel of our RV and I wanted to solicit
>some help from the liters out there. We are using the dual screen
>AFS-3500 for our panel and I wanted to create an annunciator panel to sit
>next to the AFS in a vertical config. Here is my idea&
>
>Picture if you will a dual screen AFS setup in an RV-7A panel with a radio
>stack just slightly right of the middle. Just to the left of the radio
>stack and just to the right of the pilot side AFS is an annunciator panel
>with the following dimensions: 7 tall and 1.5 wide. There are
>approximately 12 individual annunciated items (pick what you want). The
>visible part of the annunciator panel itself is a reverse engraved acrylic
>installed in the panel.
>
>Here is the problem:
>
>I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for each
>individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get bleed over
>light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
>
>I have the wiring, connectors and case already laid out on paper and that
>is not my problem and this is not the issue; my only stumbling block is a
>way to cage the lights behind the acrylic panel that is visible.
>
>Does anyone out there know of a company or have an idea of a product to
>use to accomplish the caging of the lights only?
Get access to a milling machine and carve out an
"egg crate" structure to go between the back of
your panel overlay and the etched circuit board
holding the LEDS.
I just added a mortise drill to my woodworking toys
in Medicine Lodge. This thing cuts square holes.
In fact, the machine I bought is now on sale at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35570
It seems that some reasonably machinable plastic
or hard fiber material could be "machined" with
this simple tool to achieve what you want.
The one I did for a customer was an aluminum pattern
from which silicone rubber molds were cast. The molds
were then used to vacuum cast epoxy forms that made up
the egg-crate structure for the lamp pockets, front
panel escutcheon, pocket for engraved overlay for
legends and etched circuit board on the back.
This tool cost a couple of grand to but it was
used to make a fist full of nice parts.
For a one-of-a-kind project, you might consider
the mortise cutter as a good starting point. I'll
play with this idea a bit when I get back to the
shop. I've got a lot of walnut and oak that might
just be hard enough and machineable enough to
do the job.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
Depending on what you specifically want, these guys are good too, I had them to
my breaker panel.
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/
Brett
Quoting longg(at)pjm.com:
>
> Al,
> Fantastic, thanks for posting. It is rather difficult to find good
> custom aircraft shops in the NE.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AlRice
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Labeling
>
>
> Check out Aircraft Engravers at www.engravers.net.
>
> --------
> Al Rice
> Skybolt 260
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156060#156060
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
FWIW I run two small 9AH batteries with Z-14. With an electrically
dependent engine running on a battery bus it is not overly difficult to
leave something running on a battery bus. My Low voltage warnings are
not active unless the EIS is powered off the main bus so it does not
warn if a light or battery bus item is left on. While it was definitely
not a design goal and I'm not recommending it - it is a benefit of Z-14
with equal size batteries that either one of those little Dekka
batteries will indeed start the engine. Closing the x-feed relay will
charge the other battery. A little hard on the dead battery for sure but
I've seen no evidence of overheating or outgassing while doing the
above. Mind you my largest alternator is 40 amps and it puts out less
than that on the ground and even less when other loads are subtracted.
Z-14 architecture has pleased me with unexpected benefits a couple of
times now.
A friend with a misbehaving electrical system would have really liked a
Z-14 recently when we were a long way from home or spare parts...
Ken
>> B - One of the mission requirements is backcountry
>> operations. Given that, one my design points was the ability to
>> start the plane with a completely dead primary (cranking)
>> battery, say as a result of leaving the master on.
>
> Why would you even consider that? You're obviously very
> concerned about NOT having necessary things operate 100%
> of the time but stacking lots of hardware on top of the
> probability that a pilot walks away from the airplane leaving
> things turned on is running off in the wrong direction.
>
> The most reliable system is that which has the fewest parts.
> The most reliable flight system has a minimum of options for
> the pilot consider when something is not working. A simple
> flashing low voltage warning light (comes with the LR3) tells
> you that a master switch is ON after engine shutdown . . .
> so that scenario is unworthy of consideration . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Got a picture?
Why do you need 12 enunciators? Doesn't the AFS do this already?
I did just a few using legend lights from aircraft spruce. I modified some
spare bulbs I had already and made them into led bulbs. You can also buy
pre-made led bulbs in this format. works good. Attached is a picture of
the final result.
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
I have a really great idea for the panel of our RV and I wanted to solicit
some help from the liters out there. We are using the dual screen AFS-3500
for our panel and I wanted to create an annunciator panel to sit next to the
AFS in a vertical config. Here is my idea.
Picture if you will a dual screen AFS setup in an RV-7A panel with a radio
stack just slightly right of the middle. Just to the left of the radio
stack and just to the right of the pilot side AFS is an annunciator panel
with the following dimensions: 7" tall and 1.5" wide. There are
approximately 12 individual annunciated items (pick what you want). The
visible part of the annunciator panel itself is a reverse engraved acrylic
installed in the panel.
Here is the problem:
I am looking for a method or product to "cage" the LED lighting for each
individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get bleed over
light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
I have the wiring, connectors and case already laid out on paper and that is
not my problem and this is not the issue; my only stumbling block is a way
to 'cage' the lights behind the acrylic panel that is visible.
Does anyone out there know of a company or have an idea of a product to use
to accomplish the caging of the lights only?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
Eric,
I appreciate you comments but they seem to be a bit condescending toward Bob.
Is there a reason for that? If I indeed need to upsize my capacitor then I would
like to hear constructive debate on the matter. Everything I have read (which
granted is not much) on capacitors has stated that you want to size a capacitor
to twice the system voltage to be safe. In my case, I am at 13.8 +/- so
25 V is just under twice. Is 100 Volts overkill? My 25 V capacitor was supplied
by Kitfox and that is what all Kitfox aircraft are flying on as far as I
know.
I just want a reliable system and rely on you guys that know more about electronics
than I do to provide comments and assistance. If all we do is attack one
another, it makes it hard for us less electronically educated to make a good
decision.
For now, I am going to stick with the capacitor I have unless someone has a constructive
and good reason not to.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156617#156617
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> Eric, I appreciate you comments but they seem to be a bit condescending toward
Bob. Is there a reason for that?
I am not sure condescending is the word. And YES.
> Is 100 Volts overkill?
100V is not overkill, because load dumps are specified by most standards as 40V
(DO160)--the automotive load dump standard voltages are much higher. Any component
you use that attempts to filter the alternator needs "load-dump capability".
You could use a 18V Transorb (etc.) to prevent the overvoltage at the cap.
Then you could get away with a 25V cap, but this would be my second choice.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump
> My 25 V capacitor was supplied by Kitfox and that is what all Kitfox aircraft
are flying on as far as I know.
I don't deny that it would work. But electrolytic caps have a finite lifetime,
and they don't always give and indication that they failed. So why not do it right?
> I just want a reliable system and rely on you guys that know more about electronics
than I do to provide comments and assistance. If all we do is attack one
another, it makes it hard for us less electronically educated to make a good
decision.
There are major philosophical differences at play here--
Eric's Game: "Latest and Greatest...Hell this is EXPERIMENTAL after all!"
Bob's Game: "Safe and reliable...we've been doing it this way since 1956!"
There is probably some comfortable place between these two viewpoints.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156624#156624
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
darinh a crit :
> Everything I have read (which granted is not much) on capacitors has stated that
you want to size a capacitor to twice the system voltage to be safe. In my
case, I am at 13.8 +/- so 25 V is just under twice. Is 100 Volts overkill?
Darin,
I believe the rationale for the 100 volts is that in case of a runaway
regulator, the alternatror is capable of throwing up to 100 V at the
ship's circuit.
I have been considering this issue from the beginning, after the bench
tests we performed with a Rotax alternator and regulator.
Another way would be to adopt the latest Z16 architecture, when the OV
modules ensures total disconnection of the alternator from the aircraft.
I recently wired a Rotax 912 aircraft with this "newer" Z16, while our
own project still retains the "older" design, with the possibility that
the 25 V capacitor burt or something in case of overvoltage. I still
have to decide whether I change the capacitor to 100 V or change the
architecture.
Nevertheless, the aircraft has been flying for 3 years to date.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
Eric,
Thanks for the info. Your explanation makes sense and I would much prefer to do
it "right" or better from the get go.
Giles,
I am want to install OV protection on my airplane but don't know exactly how.
I have looked at Bob's OV modules and Eric has some on his site as well. Is this
something I can simply install anywhere in the power distribution system or
does it need to be strategically placed like on the alt. field line? I am thinking
that I would like to put it on my main buss to monitor voltage there unless
this won't work. The question is...how does it "disconnect" the alternator
power supply. Forgive me if this is a novice question, but I am a novice
when it comes to electronics.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156637#156637
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
> > The capacitor is no more vulnerable than say a radio.
>
>
>A radio has some sophisticated voltage clamping on its input. So you are
>wrong.
Hmmm . . . if you check the archives, you'll find places
where I was chastised for not acknowledging a not-to-exceed
value of 16.0 volts for some popular radios. While radios
qualified to DO-160 are not at risk when paired with
contemporary OV protection techniques, the OBAM community
is buying a hardware that is not. A DO-160 qualified, 14v
radio is tested to stand off 20 volts for 1 second.
How about 20 volts for 3 seconds . . . 5 seconds? I'll
suggest that there may be fully qualified radios that passed
the 20v-for-one-second-test that are still at risk for failure
when subjected to voltages well under the limits for a 25-volt
rated capacitor.
> > In 20 years of writing for the OBAM aircraft community, I've had one
> guy suffer a capacitor failure on a Rotax powered Kitfox. He wired it in
> backwards. The capacitor didn't blow up, it opened the pressure relief
> valve in the top and oozed ugly gooey stuff.
>
>In my 40 years of writing about and studying electronics, I've seen
>hundreds of capacitor failures. Most of the big electrolytics failed
>internally by having greatly reduced capacitance or excessive resistive
>loads or a variety of other problems that did not involve explosions.
>Really Bob....!
Yes. Capacitors fail. Capacitors have a service life.
I recommend that the computer grade electrolytics featured
in my designs be replaced every 5 years or so just a
a preventative maintenance effort. But please recall
that the topic of this thread is "exploding capacitors".
My response was a simple assertion that the risks for
hazardous failure (explosion) are exceedingly low.
I'll further assert that contemporary OV protection
philosophies and techniques are adequate to protect both
a 20-volts-for-1-second-radio and a 25-volts-for-hours-
capacitor.
> > Are you telling us that the makers of these devices are failing to tell
> us about the hazards of misapplication or mistreatment of their product?
> The battery guys put pressure relief valves in their products too. It is
> reasonable to suppose there's a well considered reason for that?
>
>What are you ranting about? I have no clue.
I'm not ranting. It's a question built upon an
observation:
Why have a pressure relief valve? Do they
make things run longer, cooler, faster . . . or
do you suppose they are intended to mitigate
risk of explosion?
> > Yes, I've blown up an aluminum electrolytic but it too was in backwards
> and that was in 1956. Let us take care lest we elevate an exceedingly
> remote hazard to levels unworthy of learned discussion.
>
>What is you problem, Bob? Why not just say..."Yes, that is probably
>right." Your version of a "learned discussion" eludes me. Backing up and
>taking another think at an issue would not decrease my respect for you.
I do not sift my responses through the filter
of seeking anyone's approval or respect. Thus far, your
arguments are weak on supporting simple-ideas.
From the time an OV event begins in a contemporary
TC aircraft system until the time the runaway
alternator is brought under control is on the
order of 10-30 milliseconds with a maximum excursion
that is far less than the 25-volt rating of the
recommended capacitor. Yes, there are combinations
of failures that can trash the capacitor . . . but
the same failure will take fists full of radios with it.
If you have no argument with this statement,
then upon what alternative simple-idea do you
suggest that a capacitor be greatly more robust
than the radios which get power from the same
system?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Bob, Good luck getting your mortising bit to cut through hard woods. These
things are made for softer woods but if you keep the cutter edges sharp they
will do a much better job. They ALL must be honed when you get them new...
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
-->
>I have a really great idea for the panel of our RV and I wanted to
>solicit some help from the liters out there. We are using the dual
>screen AFS-3500 for our panel and I wanted to create an annunciator
>panel to sit next to the AFS in a vertical config. Here is my idea&
>
>Picture if you will a dual screen AFS setup in an RV-7A panel with a
>radio stack just slightly right of the middle. Just to the left of the
>radio stack and just to the right of the pilot side AFS is an
>annunciator panel with the following dimensions: 7 tall and 1.5 wide.
>There are approximately 12 individual annunciated items (pick what you
>want). The visible part of the annunciator panel itself is a reverse
>engraved acrylic installed in the panel.
>
>Here is the problem:
>
>I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for each
>individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get bleed
>over light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
>
>I have the wiring, connectors and case already laid out on paper and
>that is not my problem and this is not the issue; my only stumbling
>block is a way to cage the lights behind the acrylic panel that is visible.
>
>Does anyone out there know of a company or have an idea of a product to
>use to accomplish the caging of the lights only?
Get access to a milling machine and carve out an
"egg crate" structure to go between the back of
your panel overlay and the etched circuit board
holding the LEDS.
I just added a mortise drill to my woodworking toys
in Medicine Lodge. This thing cuts square holes.
In fact, the machine I bought is now on sale at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35570
It seems that some reasonably machinable plastic
or hard fiber material could be "machined" with
this simple tool to achieve what you want.
The one I did for a customer was an aluminum pattern
from which silicone rubber molds were cast. The molds
were then used to vacuum cast epoxy forms that made up
the egg-crate structure for the lamp pockets, front
panel escutcheon, pocket for engraved overlay for
legends and etched circuit board on the back.
This tool cost a couple of grand to but it was
used to make a fist full of nice parts.
For a one-of-a-kind project, you might consider
the mortise cutter as a good starting point. I'll
play with this idea a bit when I get back to the
shop. I've got a lot of walnut and oak that might
just be hard enough and machineable enough to
do the job.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical System Reliability |
>
>Bob:
>
>You're right. Ignorance is bliss.
Gee, I hope not. May I suggest that confidence is
bliss. That confidence is best achieved from some
level of personal understanding . . . but we cannot
all be experts at everything. So at some point, we
move forward based on observations of outcome for
repeatable experiments.
I don't buy Firestone tires because this is the
only brand of tire that I've personally experienced
two catastrophic failures at turnpike speeds. Admittedly,
both experiences were 30+ years ago . . . but at some
time later, there was a big recall of Firestones on
Ford products.
This doesn't mean all Firestones are bad, but
personal experience combined with observed successes
by other folk suggests that I'm well advised to
patronize alternative brands. Now, I don't know squat
about how either good tires or bad tires are assembled
and it would not be a good use of my $time$ to look into
the details of the matter.
I'll suggest that your $time$ is best invested in
exploitation of repeatable experiments . . . whether
in TC or OBAM aircraft. This is how ignorance is
reduced to a non-hazardous condition.
Bob . . .
> Z-14 it is.
Good choice. It will perform as advertised.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>
> > Eric, I appreciate you comments but they seem to be a bit condescending
> toward Bob. Is there a reason for that?
>
>
>I am not sure condescending is the word. And YES.
>
>
> > Is 100 Volts overkill?
>
>
>100V is not overkill, because load dumps are specified by most
>standards as 40V (DO160)--the automotive load dump standard voltages are
>much higher. Any component you use that attempts to filter the alternator
>needs "load-dump capability". You could use a 18V Transorb (etc.) to
>prevent the overvoltage at the cap. Then you could get away with a 25V
>cap, but this would be my second choice.
>
>See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump
The load dump characterized by the folks
who design DC power generation systems is
generated by (1) sudden removal all loads
from the alternator including the battery and
(2) the use of a wound-field alternator-regulator
combination common to those systems.
We're discussing PM alternators and their
regulator which are an entirely different
breed of critter.
My study of some common rectifier/regulator
products combined with my experience for having
designed a couple leads be to assert that sudden
removal of all loads, including battery from a
hard-working PM alternator will not produce
the load dump event discussed.
> > I just want a reliable system and rely on you guys that know more about
> electronics than I do to provide comments and assistance. If all we do is
> attack one another, it makes it hard for us less electronically educated
> to make a good decision.
>
>
>There are major philosophical differences at play here--
This isn't about philosophy, it's about the simple
ideas and the repeatable experiment. Others have
joined discussions on this List predicting all manner
of dire consequences for a host of un-demonstrated
concerns that argued with things we already knew and
understood.
If you believe my deductions to be incorrect, nobody
would be more pleased to know the truth than I.
This isn't about Eric's "philosophy" pitted against
Bob's "philosophy", it's about the numbers. You're
just as capable of doing the science as anyone else
here. Make my day, show me where I'm wrong.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
| From: | "dilandl" <dllang(at)hiwaay.net> |
All of this discussion about capacitor sizing brings up a question in my mind about
the Z-25 (self exciting) arrangement for the SD-8. In this case, the alternator
is not really being "shut down" by the OV module but merely disconnected
from the buss. The capacitor is still being subjected to whatever the now
unloaded SD-8 can muster. The Z-25 figure shows a 15-50V capacitor so does this
imply that the SD-8 won't muster more than 50V?
--------
Dan Langhout
Madison, AL
RV-7 in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156660#156660
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shutdown reminder for switched loads on the battery |
bus
>
>FWIW I run two small 9AH batteries with Z-14. With an electrically
>dependent engine running on a battery bus it is not overly difficult to
>leave something running on a battery bus. My Low voltage warnings are not
>active unless the EIS is powered off the main bus so it does not warn if a
>light or battery bus item is left on. While it was definitely not a design
>goal and I'm not recommending it - it is a benefit of Z-14 with equal size
>batteries that either one of those little Dekka batteries will indeed
>start the engine. Closing the x-feed relay will charge the other battery.
>A little hard on the dead battery for sure but I've seen no evidence of
>overheating or outgassing while doing the above. Mind you my largest
>alternator is 40 amps and it puts out less than that on the ground and
>even less when other loads are subtracted. Z-14 architecture has pleased
>me with unexpected benefits a couple of times now.
>
>A friend with a misbehaving electrical system would have really liked a
>Z-14 recently when we were a long way from home or spare parts...
>
>Ken
One could install a low volts warning light to
watch switched, battery bus loads and drive the
warning from the downstream side of the control
switch. When the system is first powered up before
engine start, the light would come on and flash
if one or more battery bus loads is energized.
But as soon as the alternator picks up the bus,
the light would go out.
The same light would serve to remind the pilot
to shut down battery bus driven loads after the
engine is stopped or the alternator is shut down.
The circuit could be fitted with a cancel button
to stop the flashing in the event that an alternator
fails and the systems are now running battery only.
I can see how this might be accomplished with a
single lamp fixture with a built in PTT feature.
The lamp would annunciate the ON condition for
any battery bus supported load coincident with
low voltage. The PTT switch could be used to signal
the system to cancel flashing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>> Eric, I appreciate you comments but they seem to be a bit
>> condescending toward Bob. Is there a reason for that?
>
>
> I am not sure condescending is the word. And YES.
>
>
>> Is 100 Volts overkill?
>
>
> 100V is not overkill, because load dumps are specified by most
> standards as 40V (DO160)--the automotive load dump standard voltages
> are much higher. Any component you use that attempts to filter the
> alternator needs "load-dump capability". You could use a 18V Transorb
> (etc.) to prevent the overvoltage at the cap. Then you could get away
> with a 25V cap, but this would be my second choice.
>
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump
>
>
>> My 25 V capacitor was supplied by Kitfox and that is what all
>> Kitfox aircraft are flying on as far as I know.
>
>
> I don't deny that it would work. But electrolytic caps have a finite
> lifetime, and they don't always give and indication that they failed.
> So why not do it right?
>
>
>> I just want a reliable system and rely on you guys that know more
>> about electronics than I do to provide comments and assistance. If
>> all we do is attack one another, it makes it hard for us less
>> electronically educated to make a good decision.
>
>
> There are major philosophical differences at play here--
>
> Eric's Game: "Latest and Greatest...Hell this is EXPERIMENTAL after
> all!" Bob's Game: "Safe and reliable...we've been doing it this way
> since 1956!"
>
> There is probably some comfortable place between these two
> viewpoints.
>
> -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net
>
Eric, you do some cool stuff & you've got some useful ideas, but your
assessment of 'Bob's game' is absurd on its face. Anyone with brain
activity much above the plant level who's followed this list for more
than a week knows that's just a lie.
Any time I see someone try to prop up their reputation by running
down someone else personally, I've got to question their confidence in
their own position.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Langhout <dllang(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
All of this discussion about capacitor sizing brings up a question in my
mind about the Z-25 (self exciting) arrangement for the SD-8. In this
case, the alternator is not really being "shut down" by the OV module
but merely disconnected from the buss. The capacitor is still being
subjected to whatever the now unloaded SD-8 can muster. The Z-25 figure
shows a 15-50V capacitor so does this imply that the SD-8 won't muster
more than 50V?
Dan Langhout
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> > The capacitor is no more vulnerable than say a radio.
>>
>>
>> A radio has some sophisticated voltage clamping on its input. So you
>> are wrong.
>
> Hmmm . . . if you check the archives, you'll find places
> where I was chastised for not acknowledging a not-to-exceed
> value of 16.0 volts for some popular radios. While radios
> qualified to DO-160 are not at risk when paired with
> contemporary OV protection techniques, the OBAM community
> is buying a hardware that is not. A DO-160 qualified, 14v
> radio is tested to stand off 20 volts for 1 second.
> How about 20 volts for 3 seconds . . . 5 seconds? I'll
> suggest that there may be fully qualified radios that passed
> the 20v-for-one-second-test that are still at risk for failure
> when subjected to voltages well under the limits for a 25-volt
> rated capacitor.
>
>> > In 20 years of writing for the OBAM aircraft community, I've had
>> one guy suffer a capacitor failure on a Rotax powered Kitfox. He
>> wired it in backwards. The capacitor didn't blow up, it opened the
>> pressure relief valve in the top and oozed ugly gooey stuff.
>>
>> In my 40 years of writing about and studying electronics, I've seen
>> hundreds of capacitor failures. Most of the big electrolytics failed
>> internally by having greatly reduced capacitance or excessive
>> resistive loads or a variety of other problems that did not involve
>> explosions. Really Bob....!
>
> Yes. Capacitors fail. Capacitors have a service life.
> I recommend that the computer grade electrolytics featured
> in my designs be replaced every 5 years or so just a
> a preventative maintenance effort. But please recall
> that the topic of this thread is "exploding capacitors".
> My response was a simple assertion that the risks for
> hazardous failure (explosion) are exceedingly low.
> I'll further assert that contemporary OV protection
> philosophies and techniques are adequate to protect both
> a 20-volts-for-1-second-radio and a 25-volts-for-hours-
> capacitor.
>
>> > Are you telling us that the makers of these devices are failing to
>> tell us about the hazards of misapplication or mistreatment of their
>> product? The battery guys put pressure relief valves in their
>> products too. It is reasonable to suppose there's a well considered
>> reason for that?
>>
>> What are you ranting about? I have no clue.
>
> I'm not ranting. It's a question built upon an
> observation:
>
> Why have a pressure relief valve? Do they
> make things run longer, cooler, faster . . . or
> do you suppose they are intended to mitigate
> risk of explosion?
>
>> > Yes, I've blown up an aluminum electrolytic but it too was in
>> backwards and that was in 1956. Let us take care lest we elevate an
>> exceedingly remote hazard to levels unworthy of learned discussion.
>>
>> What is you problem, Bob? Why not just say..."Yes, that is probably
>> right." Your version of a "learned discussion" eludes me. Backing up
>> and taking another think at an issue would not decrease my respect
>> for you.
>
> I do not sift my responses through the filter
> of seeking anyone's approval or respect. Thus far, your
> arguments are weak on supporting simple-ideas.
>
> From the time an OV event begins in a contemporary
> TC aircraft system until the time the runaway
> alternator is brought under control is on the
> order of 10-30 milliseconds with a maximum excursion
> that is far less than the 25-volt rating of the
> recommended capacitor. Yes, there are combinations
> of failures that can trash the capacitor . . . but
> the same failure will take fists full of radios with it.
>
> If you have no argument with this statement,
> then upon what alternative simple-idea do you
> suggest that a capacitor be greatly more robust
> than the radios which get power from the same
> system?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Well, here's a data point. I have my Garmin Audio panel set up to accept
music input from my Ipod using a 1/8" stereo jack. I've hooked up the line
optional ground line for High Gain (pin J2-15, if you must know). The
system works as advertised and as other's have noted, the sound isn't like
your HiFI but better than nothing in my David Clarks. However, when I turn
on the ANR, it makes a Hugh difference in both sound quality - more bass-
and it boosts the volume. Neither effects were anticipated. Anyone have
any ideas as to why this is happening, it is a good thing!
Marty in Brentwood TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Rebuilding Gyros |
I've a couple of Electric Gyros (AI and DG) that need new bearings. For an
experimental I'm under the impression I can work on these instruments
myself. Has anyone else done this and know a source for the bearings?
Suggestions on who might be considered to do the overhaul without a yellow
tag would also be appreciated.
Marty in Brentwood. RV-6A finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Scott,
You could try thin brass stock (hobby shop). It is easily bent and
soldered. I used some LED lighted push buttons that I'm not sure that I
like. The panel is a small radio width panel at the top of my stack so
It may get rebuilt but not before I fly!!
"I have a really great idea for the panel of our RV and I wanted to
solicit some help from the liters out there. We are using the dual
screen AFS-3500 for our panel and I wanted to create an annunciator
panel to sit next to the AFS in a vertical config."
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>Eric,
>
>Thanks for the info. Your explanation makes sense and I would much prefer
>to do it "right" or better from the get go.
>
>Giles,
>
>I am want to install OV protection on my airplane but don't know exactly
>how. I have looked at Bob's OV modules and Eric has some on his site as
>well. Is this something I can simply install anywhere in the power
>distribution system or does it need to be strategically placed like on the
>alt. field line? I am thinking that I would like to put it on my main
>buss to monitor voltage there unless this won't work. The question
>is...how does it "disconnect" the alternator power supply. Forgive me if
>this is a novice question, but I am a novice when it comes to electronics.
The Z-figures were crafted to offer the most strategic
locations for inserting OV protection. I'll suggest that
you pick a Z-figure that most closely meets your design
goals for cost and performance and then see what
might be fixed to match your design goals completely.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
>
>Bob, Good luck getting your mortising bit to cut through hard woods. These
>things are made for softer woods but if you keep the cutter edges sharp they
>will do a much better job. They ALL must be honed when you get them new...
I've had pretty good performance in walnut but I've not
yet explored the tools/talents to keep them sharp.
I'm thinking a machining-friendly plastic like Delrin
would be a good starting point. I've got some scraps
to try on the next trip.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>All of this discussion about capacitor sizing brings up a question in my
>mind about the Z-25 (self exciting) arrangement for the SD-8. In this
>case, the alternator is not really being "shut down" by the OV module but
>merely disconnected from the buss. The capacitor is still being subjected
>to whatever the now unloaded SD-8 can muster. The Z-25 figure shows a
>15-50V capacitor so does this imply that the SD-8 won't muster more than 50V?
In an un-restrained (failed regulator) all of the
14v PM alternators are capable of output voltages
in excess of 25 volts. That's why we consider
adding ov protection that keeps the event low in
magnitude and short lived.
But as long as there's a battery on line,
alternators of any size are incapable of boosting
voltage at a rate faster than what the ov protection
systems are designed to mitigate.
At Revision 12, all of the PM alternator drawings
will be updated to place OV disconnect in the AC
output lines of the alternator as depicted in Z-16.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Power Conditioning circuits |
Bob
You have explained many times how avionics should be able to withstand the
vagaries of aircraft power without the need for an avionics master. I'm
playing around with some pal based circuits to provide derived information
in the cockpit using the serial outputs from the dynon and GPS. Do you have
a standard circuit you can recommend to take the aircraft power and derive a
safe supply to the electronics. Currently I'm just using a diode to protect
against reverse polarity, a transorb to take out the worst spikes and the
usual 7805 with a couple of capacitors either side of it.
Any info or suggestions gratefully received
Best regards
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
1/8/2008
Hello Mark Richards, You wrote: "I really don't understand what P-leads are
or the difference
between P-mags and E-mags. What do I have with the LASAR system???"
I admire your very ambitious design effort and your willingness to ask
questions. But the elephant cannot be eaten in one setting or with one
bite -- just keep nibbling away.
To answer one question and make suggestions:
1) P leads are the means of turning a conventional magneto OFF by preventing
it from sending high voltage electricity to the spark plugs.
The P lead electrical connection on the external surface of a magneto is
connected to the primary coil (hence the nomenclature "P") inside the
magneto. If the primary coil is connected to ground via the P lead, usually
by means of an "ignition switch", then the magneto is considered OFF and
will generate no high voltage spark.
2) If you will go to the emagair web site you will be able to learn the
difference between a P mag and an E mag. http://www.emagair.com/
3) Unison has a number of publications available on their Lasar ignition
system. Some they will send you for free, others will cost money. I suggest
that you contact them and request the free information and learn what is
available at cost.
http://www.unisonindustries.com/ourproducts/lasarelectronicignition.html
You need to do much more research on the Lasar system before you are ready
to make a decision on whether to use it or not.
Please continue to ask specific questions and we will do our best to help.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
>> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
>> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get
>> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
>>
Look at some of those "Daily Dose" medicine organizers at the drug
store. They have little compartments for each day of the week. Might
find something similar in a bait'n'tackle shop.
Another option is to get a strip of 1/4" plexiglass or even black
delrin. A 3/16" bit will drill a hole that is a push fit for a 5mm
LED. The 10 degree spread LED won't bleed over into adjacent areas much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Conditioning circuits |
>
>Bob
>
>You have explained many times how avionics should be able to withstand the
>vagaries of aircraft power without the need for an avionics master. I'm
>playing around with some pal based circuits to provide derived information
>in the cockpit using the serial outputs from the dynon and GPS. Do you
>have a standard circuit you can recommend to take the aircraft power and
>derive a safe supply to the electronics. Currently I'm just using a diode
>to protect against reverse polarity, a transorb to take out the worst
>spikes and the usual 7805 with a couple of capacitors either side of it.
>
>Any info or suggestions gratefully received
Sure. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/power_conditioning.pdf
This is an excerpt from a program I'm doing for a client
that illustrates the general arrangement for achieving
a variety of power supplies and interfacing them with
aircraft wiring where inputs will be subject to 80v
100 mS spikes, 40V 1-second surge, HIRF, conducted
noise, and lightning.
I think this diagram will get you moving in the right
direction for achieving the desired level of immunity
from the wild-and-wooly critters that roam around
and near airplanes. Study this a bit and come back with
questions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Rebuilding Gyros |
Marty,
Really now, do yourself a favour and get rid of those gyros....Yes you can work
on them yourself but why would you want to?
Personally the closest any mechanical gyro is getting to my airplane is the certified
Cessna across the ramp!
I would sell them on Ebay and buy a Dynon...Way more reliable, will actually work,
will withstand aerobatics.
Frank
RV7a Io360 IFR all glass with ASI and ALT steam guage backups.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
I've a couple of Electric Gyros (AI and DG) that need new bearings. For an experimental
I'm under the impression I can work on these instruments myself. Has
anyone else done this and know a source for the bearings?
Suggestions on who might be considered to do the overhaul without a yellow tag
would also be appreciated.
Marty in Brentwood. RV-6A finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding Gyros |
frank,
yes, you can build your own airplane but who would want to? to each his
own.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
>
>
> Marty,
>
> Really now, do yourself a favour and get rid of those gyros....Yes you can
> work on them yourself but why would you want to?
>
> Personally the closest any mechanical gyro is getting to my airplane is
> the certified Cessna across the ramp!
>
> I would sell them on Ebay and buy a Dynon...Way more reliable, will
> actually work, will withstand aerobatics.
>
> Frank
> RV7a Io360 IFR all glass with ASI and ALT steam guage backups.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:25 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
>
>
> I've a couple of Electric Gyros (AI and DG) that need new bearings. For
> an experimental I'm under the impression I can work on these instruments
> myself. Has anyone else done this and know a source for the bearings?
> Suggestions on who might be considered to do the overhaul without a yellow
> tag would also be appreciated.
>
> Marty in Brentwood. RV-6A finishing.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem resolved |
Bob,
I think I found the problem (but can't be sure until the weather clears and
I fly the plane). The fuselink between SW1-4 and the Alternator controller
was blown. It likely shorting out during construction because it isn't
shorting now.
After spending 9-hours trying to track-down the problem I have a concern
about fuselinks. Unlike a fuse, you can't see that a fuselink has blown. Had
I used a fuse rather than a fuselink I would have found the problem in
minutes. Since my fuse holder is right next to the fuselink and I won't
expose the circuit to extra lengths of non-fused wire, I plan to replace the
fuselink with a 1-AMP ATC (bayonet type) fuse on my main buss.
Regards,
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 4:09 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> -->
>
>
> ><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
> >
> >Bob,
> >I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
> >I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the
> battery for
> >a full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current
> >draw from the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery
> contactor relay,
> >and the strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the
> >strobes were turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter
> >across the battery before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this
> normal for a
> >new fully charged battery?.
>
> Yes . . .
>
> > After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
> >problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when
> >running other electrical components?
> >I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK.
> Unfortunately I
> >don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another
> meter if I
> >want in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further
> testing before
> >changing-out the voltage regulator?
>
> Check the voltage in flight with a known-good instrument.
> Your alternator should boost the battery to 13.8 to 14.6
> volts in cruise.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gaye and Vaughn" <vaughnray(at)bvunet.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine |
I have received the following reply from the ULPower representatvie to
my question, "Why do I not need to include crowbar OV protection with
this engine?"
Our electronics guy sent me a diagram showing the principle of how our
type of regulator works. He says (in Dutch below) that:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
our type is a "shunt" regulator which shorts the PMG to ground when the
battery voltage increases above the nominal level so that the battery
can never be over charged and damaged.
The principle of a PMG is different to a Regulated Field Generator
(typical in cars) where the magnetic field is regulated to vary the
voltage of the generator.
A PMG acts as a constant current source and therefore may be shorted
out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
The regulator / rectifier we use is typically used on large capacity
motorbikes and our supplier says they are very robust.
He also sent the attached schematic:
So as I see it, the attached schematic for my airplane should be
sufficient.
Vaughn Teegarden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Langhout <dllang(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>
>
>
> At Revision 12, all of the PM alternator drawings
> will be updated to place OV disconnect in the AC
> output lines of the alternator as depicted in Z-16.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
So what will happen to the "self exciting" feature ah la Z-25? Is this
an either/or situation?
Dan Langhout
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Langhout <dllang(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) |
Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's
statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that
delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the
ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of
what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want
to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or
something else?
Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they
are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and
battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I
would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one
failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery
failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc.
Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not
zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator
could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8
backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit. Depending on if
the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was
still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get
tense for awhile.
Here's an idea:
Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee
that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check. Then,
provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the
two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the
diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal
operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss
connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal
buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the
ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the
electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely
departure of the battery.
The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition
system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event.
This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good
from 4-35V but could be with other systems.
So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a
non-problem? What do you think?
Dan Langhout
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic
strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate
to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the
egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
Regards,
Greg Young
>
> >> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
> >> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you
> do not get
> >> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the
> one that is lit.
> >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
| From: | "Sully" <mr.sully(at)tx.rr.com> |
I am considering using the wingtip Nav antenna detailed in the Aero Electric Connection
and have a couple of questions. First I intend to install the tips on
my RV 7 with piano hinges and was wondering if this will provide adequate ground
plane connection to the wing box, provided I secure the antenna element to
one half of the hinge. Second when comparing to the commercially available version
of this antenna to the DIY version all the elements are made from flat stock
and the DIY version incorporates an angle for one of the elements with an
undefined length, has anyone built this using all flat stock of some length?
Thanks
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156847#156847
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net> |
| Subject: | Looking good for the seminar |
Fellow builders,
I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the required 15 to hold
the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good right now.
I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some logistics. To keep the
seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need to provide (2) continental
breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and snack foods. Bob's fee for the
seminar itself is $185, due at the beginning of the seminar. The chapter
would also like to also collect $30 from everyone attending to cover
food/facility charges. Almost all of that goes into your belly. Maybe a
buck or two will be left over for the chapter for operational costs.
If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The chapter is very
determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in their hangar.
Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it would be great to find
a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories over a few beers, cokes, or
tacos.
How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night before? The chapter
would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday night. I'm not sure what
the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on their website soon.
www.eaa690.org
If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I would also be happy to
serve as taxi for any out of towners and save them the trouble of a rental
car.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an
aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
I'm in...
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Low voltage problem resolved |
><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
>Bob,
>I think I found the problem (but can't be sure until the weather clears and
>I fly the plane). The fuselink between SW1-4 and the Alternator controller
>was blown. It likely shorting out during construction because it isn't
>shorting now.
>After spending 9-hours trying to track-down the problem I have a concern
>about fuselinks. Unlike a fuse, you can't see that a fuselink has blown. Had
>I used a fuse rather than a fuselink I would have found the problem in
>minutes. Since my fuse holder is right next to the fuselink and I won't
>expose the circuit to extra lengths of non-fused wire, I plan to replace the
>fuselink with a 1-AMP ATC (bayonet type) fuse on my main buss.
>Regards,
>Les
I'm sorry that it took you so long to track this down but
a fusible link was selected for this application because of
its very long time constant. I you put a fuse in that slot,
it will have to be much larger than the downstream breaker
so that the crowbar system opens the breaker without opening
the fuse.
The usual approach to troubleshooting these kinds of
issues is by judicious probing with a voltmeter. Only
after the open circuit is isolated down to a manageable
segment does the visual inspection mode of investigation
kick in. I'll recommend you stay with the fusible link
in this situation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions |
The ICOM IC-A200 (VHF Comm radio) installation instruction
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Icom_ICA200_Installation_Manual.pdf)
depicts a 10 amp breaker, and tells the installer to "Use 2 pairs of #18
AWG wires for power and power grounding wiring." This struck me as odd,
since a single 18 AWG wire is normally used with a 10 amp breaker, and
since the IC-A200 is rated to draw only 2.6 amps (during transmit).
I called ICOM tech support and spoke to Mike, who told me that I should
indeed use two 18 AWG wires for power and two 18 AWG wires for ground,
and that the two wires should be twisted together "to reduce
interference". He further recommended twisting the end of the two wires
together, aided by solder, and crimping this assembly into the supplied
Molex terminal.
I expressed some skepticism about the efficacy of twisting two 12V power
wires together to reduce interference. I was unable to elicit an
explanation of the mechanism by which the alleged interference reduction
was to be achieved. I was also unable to elicit an explanation of why
it should take two 18AWG wires in parallel to supply 2.6 Amps (peak) to
a radio. I elected not to engage Mike in a discussion of the
advisability of crimping a connector to a soldered wire.
Does anybody have insight into reasoning or experience that lends
credibility to the idea that two 18 AWG wires should be used for power
(and two for ground) in an ICOM IC-A200 radio installation?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 975 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
Hi Sully-
I recently installed a Bob Archer VOR antenna in a second set of
hinge-mounted tips- I spoke with Bob how to best accomplish this and riveted the
base
strip of the antenna that is normally grounded to the wing skin with the tip
mounting screws directly on top of the lower tip-side hinge half using the same
soft rivets used for the rest of the hinge. Works great. Might work as well for
DIY version. If interested, holler at me off-list for foto of installation.
I've also simplified the hinge method of installation from my original as
recounted in the RVator, but haven't written up the procedure yet, so contact me
off-list for details.
>From The PossumWorks in TN,
Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo"
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net> |
Bob:
I've read thru the various sections of the book on grounding, wire
selection, noise etc, as well as the Blue Mountain article and the FAQ.
I already done some wiring in my wing and I'm concerned now that I may
have done it incorrectly.
Electrically, my wing contains:
Strobe light, power supply mounted at wing tip
Nav Light
Landing light
Taxi light
Pitot heat power
Pitot heat controller
Fuel pump
Fuel flow sensor
Remote compass
Potentiometer
I used twisted shielded wire for all wires with return wires for all
power supplies. It was intended that all the return wires would
terminate at what you call a "single point" ground. All power
leads/returns are routed thru the nose ribs, all control/sensor wires
are routed along the rear spar. They don't come together until the
panel. The wing is all metal, fuselage is truss tube.
For each power lead, I connected the shielding and the return wire
together at the load location and grounded them locally as well as
running the return wire back to the "single point" ground. Then, I
was going to connect the return wire and the shielding at the "single
point" and ground again there.
In reading Blue Mountain's comment, "Shields are connected at the source
end, and cut off flush at the load end" and your comment on pg 18-14,
"I'll further suggest that there's is greater risk that shielding
improperly terminated at both ends is 100x more likely to be the root
cause of a noise problem.....", indicates that what I have done may
cause problems. It was my understanding at the time that that was the
correct way to do it. Now I can't find what led me to that
understanding.
For better or worse, I'm stuck using the shielded wire so what should I
do to properly install it. Does it cause problems to ground the shield
at both ends. Does it cause problems to ground the return wire locally
and back at the "single point ground."
Your comments and explanation would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal GROELL" <pgroell(at)yahoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce.
http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes
Looks pretty neat to me.
Pascal
www.notreavion.net
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Greg
Young
Envoy: mardi 8 janvier 2008 18:48
: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Objet: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic
strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate
to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the
egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
Regards,
Greg Young
>
> >> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
> >> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you
> do not get
> >> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the
> one that is lit.
> >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At Revision 12, all of the PM alternator drawings
>> will be updated to place OV disconnect in the AC
>> output lines of the alternator as depicted in Z-16.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>So what will happen to the "self exciting" feature ah la Z-25? Is this an
>either/or situation?
No, ALL configurations using the SD-8 will include
self-excitation. I can't recommend or even deduce the
need for adding self-excitation to other products.
I don't know enough about them. But you can certainly
use the SD-8 without this feature. There are probably
1000 or so flying with out it. The chances of really
NEEDING it are small.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel L. Langhout" <dllang(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) |
Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's
statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that
delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the
ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of
what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want
to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or
something else?
Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they
are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and
battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I
would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one
failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery
failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc.
Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not
zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator
could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8
backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit. Depending on if
the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was
still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get
tense for awhile.
Here's an idea:
Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee
that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check. Then,
provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the
two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the
diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal
operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss
connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal
buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the
ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the
electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely
departure of the battery.
The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition
system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event.
This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good
from 4-35V but could be with other systems.
So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a
non-problem? What do you think?
Dan Langhout
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) |
>
>Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's
>statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that
>delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the
>ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of
>what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want
>to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or
>something else?
>
>Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they
>are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and
>battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I
>would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one
>failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery
>failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc.
>Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not
>zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator
>could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8
>backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit.
no, an alternator once running will continue to run
unless hit with a transient load (big landing lights,
landing gear pump motor, etc) that exceeds nameplate
rating. Then it MIGHT stall . . . but I'm hearing that
many alternators will self excite at the speeds we
turn them on the front of a Lycoming. So no, loss of
battery is not automatically a dark-panel situation.
> Depending on if
>the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was
>still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get
>tense for awhile.
>
>Here's an idea:
>
>Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee
>that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check.
If you incorporate the OV relay that opens the AC windings
(preferred method) then the SD-8 comes up only after being
turned ON at the panel.
> Then,
>provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the
>two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the
>diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal
>operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss
>connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal
>buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the
>ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the
>electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely
>departure of the battery.
>
>The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition
>system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event.
>This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good
>from 4-35V but could be with other systems.
>
>So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a
>non-problem? What do you think?
Lost of a well maintained RG battery (or even a flooded battery)
is so remote that I've never seen this scenario considered
in a failure mode effects analysis. It's sorta like worrying
about prop bolts failing. You're probably 100x
more likely to suffer an open battery contactor due to wiring
or contactor failure . . . this is why Z-13/8 was crafted in the
two-layer philosophy wherein the battery contactor is not needed
for operation of the backup alternator.
The "cleaner" approach to addressing this concern is to
avoid electrical system dependent ignition systems;
install one or two p-mags . . .
The most likely loss of battery scenario will hinge on failed
fasteners (over or under torqued) and this can happen ANYWHERE
in the system, including the feed to the battery bus. Craftsmanship
is the best prophylactic against such losses . . . just like
putting proper torque on the prop bolts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
Hi Sully
I'm interested in the reason why you are deviating from the standard
mounting for the wing tips, to 'piano hinges', do you intend to put the
'hinge' fully around the curve of the leading edge !!!
I'm sure that if this was standard way offered, many would move away from it
to the current options offered by VANS
Just curious
John - wings RV-9a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sully" <mr.sully(at)tx.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
>
> I am considering using the wingtip Nav antenna detailed in the Aero
> Electric Connection and have a couple of questions. First I intend to
> install the tips on my RV 7 with piano hinges and was wondering if this
> will provide adequate ground plane connection to the wing box, provided I
> secure the antenna element to one half of the hinge. Second when comparing
> to the commercially available version of this antenna to the DIY version
> all the elements are made from flat stock and the DIY version incorporates
> an angle for one of the elements with an undefined length, has anyone
> built this using all flat stock of some length?
> Thanks
>
> --------
> Sully
> RV-7 In-work
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156847#156847
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "noelk" <noelk(at)pcug.org.au> |
The OV Module in the Z-figures (in particular, Z-20, which is the one I am using),
show the OV module connected to the output side of the master switch. It would
be physically more convenient for me to wire it to the output side of the
5A circuit breaker. If I understand the way the OVM works, I think this should
be electrically equivalent. However, I thought it best to check with the experts
first, in case there are any factors I am not aware of.
Noel Karppinen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156910#156910
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions |
Tim,
My guess is that since the power uses 2 molex pins 14, R it is a
mechanical thing (1 wire per pin) the twist and solder part is BS IMHO.
The ground could be 4 18-20 ga to maintain 1 pin per crimp. these can go
all the way to the ground point or joined to 1 or 2 wires, your choice.
As far as I can see from a grounding point of view you are trying to
maintain the signal ground at the same potential as the
airframe/battery. The IR drop wants to be as low as possible to achieve
this, lower than may be acceptable for the power leads. That said you
may want all 4 wires to go to ground.
I think that the mechanical issues and the redundant contacts at the
card edge connector are the overriding concerns here. If there is
another explanation based on physics it escapes me (possible).
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
| From: | "Sully" <mr.sully(at)tx.rr.com> |
Mark,
Thank You that was exactly what I was considering, I'll contact you off list for
your improvements.
John,
I am doing this for a couple of reasons; easy access to perform service/maintenance
inside of the tips (AOA, antenna, strobes, etc) and it eliminates the screws
and nut plates which can get pretty ratty looking after a period of time.
Mark Phillips developed this and its pretty slick. I've seen it at Sun-n Fun on
a couple of different aircraft and it looks great. Check it out at Mark's site
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_list&c=19
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156917#156917
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking good for the seminar |
It might me more helpful if you made a note of the city and state the
seminar was to be held.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
On Jan 8, 2008 10:53 PM, Don Hall wrote:
> Fellow builders,
>
> I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the required 15 to
> hold the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good right now.
>
> I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some logistics. To keep
> the seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need to provide (2)
> continental breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and snack foods. Bob's
> fee for the seminar itself is $185, due at the beginning of the
> seminar. The chapter would also like to also collect $30 from everyone
> attending to cover food/facility charges. Almost all of that goes into your
> belly. Maybe a buck or two will be left over for the chapter for
> operational costs.
>
> If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The chapter is
> very determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in their
> hangar. Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it would be
> great to find a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories over a few
> beers, cokes, or tacos.
>
> How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night before? The
> chapter would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday night. I'm not
> sure what the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on their website soon.
> www.eaa690.org
>
> If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I would also be happy
> to serve as taxi for any out of towners and save them the trouble of a
> rental car.
>
>
> ******************************************
> Don Hall
> N517DG (registered)
> rv7 finishing
> ******************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Neal George
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an
> aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
>
> I'm in...
>
>
> *Neal E. George*
> 2023 Everglades Drive
> Navarre, FL 32566
> Home - 850-515-0640
> Cell - 850-218-4838
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don Hall
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an
> aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
>
> I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine
> with me.
>
> Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
>
> Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
> I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> ******************************************
> Don Hall
> N517DG (registered)
> rv7 finishing
> ******************************************
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted
intercom that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to
see that the wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not
shielded. Would it be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones
or will it be ok using them as-is? If you're using this product with
the harness as provided, please send me a PIREP.
Thanks!
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>The OV Module in the Z-figures (in particular, Z-20, which is the one I am
>using), show the OV module connected to the output side of the master
>switch. It would be physically more convenient for me to wire it to the
>output side of the 5A circuit breaker. If I understand the way the OVM
>works, I think this should be electrically equivalent. However, I thought
>it best to check with the experts first, in case there are any factors I
>am not aware of.
Any place downstream of the 5A breaker is fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Conditioning circuits |
While the time-tested certified aircraft avionics in my plane are
probably well able to handle the voltage variations, I am not so sure
about the experimental part of the panel. Because I have no round dial
gauges at all, I chose to include a 12V automotive computer power supply
(DC-DC regulator) between the main bus and those avionics. It keeps
them alive during engine start. Here is the little one (90 watts) I
used, but there are various versions with differing wattage
capabilities. As a side benefit, it outputs regulated 5V I can use to
power my iPod and charge my cell phone!
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/parts/p1290.asp
FWIW,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
Thanks for the info, I'll check it out
John (PPL-England) wings RV9a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sully" <mr.sully(at)tx.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
>
> Mark,
> Thank You that was exactly what I was considering, I'll contact you off
> list for your improvements.
>
> John,
> I am doing this for a couple of reasons; easy access to perform
> service/maintenance inside of the tips (AOA, antenna, strobes, etc) and it
> eliminates the screws and nut plates which can get pretty ratty looking
> after a period of time. Mark Phillips developed this and its pretty slick.
> I've seen it at Sun-n Fun on a couple of different aircraft and it looks
> great. Check it out at Mark's site
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_list&c=19
>
> --------
> Sully
> RV-7 In-work
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156917#156917
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom wires |
>Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom
>that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the
>wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it
>be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok
>using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as
>provided, please send me a PIREP.
Virtually all audio system wires in aircraft
receive 99.99% of their immunity for noise
propagation by (1) twisting outbound and inbound
signal return lines and (2) elimination of ground
loops. Shielding is a prophylactic against
ELECTROSTATICALLY coupled noises of which there
are exceedingly few sources and next to none that
live behind the instrument panel.
While not a 100% sure deal, suppliers of such
products will have conducted due diligence in
crafting the design of their offering . . . while
working to reduce $time$-out-the-door price of
their product. Leaving off the shields is low
risk if (1) and (2) are dutifully satisfied
and it reduces $time$ required to produce the
product.
At the moment, I have no basis for telling you
that the supplier did a bad thing. Go ahead and
install it as-is.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Dubner <jdubner(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom wires |
Michael,
I'm using the two-place version of this intercom and factory harness in
my Long-EZ with no problems. 660 hours/5 years/12V system/IR
alternator/strobes/Lycoming O-235 with 1 magneto and 1 LSE EI.
I can't see shielded wire improving the performance of the earphone
wiring (it's low-impedance and high-level) although I can _imagine_ it
_possibly_ helping for the microphone. But in practice, all is fine.
If I had an aluminum airplane, I'd be sure to mount the jacks with
insulated shoulder washers to avoid picking up a ground common to other
(noisy) circuits.
Incidentally, Softcomm is one of the "good guys" -- they provided me
with a schematic of their intercom when I needed to fix it (blown LM386
output IC -- an easy fix).
Best,
Joe
Lewiston, ID
Email: http://mail2600.com/#Contact
On 01/09/2008 05:54 Michael Hinchcliff wrote:
> Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom that
comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the wires
from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it be prudent
to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok using them as-is?
If you're using this product with the harness as provided, please send me
a PIREP.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking good for the seminar |
Ok lazy person, that's why Bob spent half his life building the website.
See http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html (I'll make you read it)
Wow, $30 for meals - just highway robbery! Just kidding I can't even
fill one-half of one side of my wing tank for that. If you guys need an
extra body, let me know, I'll buzz down.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:27 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking good for the seminar
It might me more helpful if you made a note of the city and
state the seminar was to be held.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
On Jan 8, 2008 10:53 PM, Don Hall < dhall(at)donka.net
> wrote:
Fellow builders,
I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the
required 15 to hold the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good
right now.
I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some
logistics. To keep the seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need
to provide (2) continental breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and
snack foods. Bob's fee for the seminar itself is $185, due at the
beginning of the seminar. The chapter would also like to also collect
$30 from everyone attending to cover food/facility charges. Almost all
of that goes into your belly. Maybe a buck or two will be left over for
the chapter for operational costs.
If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The
chapter is very determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in
their hangar. Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it
would be great to find a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories
over a few beers, cokes, or tacos.
How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night
before? The chapter would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday
night. I'm not sure what the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on
their website soon. www.eaa690.org
If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I
would also be happy to serve as taxi for any out of towners and save
them the trouble of a rental car.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner
interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
I'm in...
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest
for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving
distance is fine with me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough
folks interested, I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Hey
Just a note to those who may be considering sponsoring/attending one
of Bob's seminars. I conned our chapter 65 Stoney Creek, ON, into sponsoring
one 2 years ago. The group was skeptical regarding sufficient attendance (
we have 60 members, about 35 active) but were willing to assess the
surrounding area (toronto is 4 million, 40 miles away).
With two months to go, we had the quorum - with one month to go we
had an extra 20 - and by D-day we had 3 from Pennsylvania-New York, one from
further south and three from 70 miles east. The Seminar was excellent, not
one complaint and many kudos.
The content was super, the event a success by any standard. Do it.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
>
>I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes
>
>Looks pretty neat to me.
>Pascal
A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in
an excerpt of the websit and posted it to:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions |
>
>Tim,
> My guess is that since the power uses 2 molex pins 14, R it is a
> mechanical thing (1 wire per pin) the twist and solder part is BS IMHO.
> The ground could be 4 18-20 ga to maintain 1 pin per crimp. these can go
> all the way to the ground point or joined to 1 or 2 wires, your choice.
> As far as I can see from a grounding point of view you are trying to
> maintain the signal ground at the same potential as the airframe/battery.
> The IR drop wants to be as low as possible to achieve this, lower than
> may be acceptable for the power leads. That said you may want all 4 wires
> to go to ground.
> I think that the mechanical issues and the redundant contacts at the
> card edge connector are the overriding concerns here. If there is another
> explanation based on physics it escapes me (possible).
When ever you see paralleled pins, the first thought
that comes to mind are desires to (1) minimize total
resistance in that conductor path and/or (2) an attempt
to 'share' total current between to pins in the connector.
I've written several times about programs I've worked on
where it was desirable to run 20 or more amps through a standard
D-sub connector. I developed this process about 10 years
ago at RAC and tried for the first time on the GQM-163 target
and currently used in numerous locations on the Hawker 4000
power distribution system.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/D-Sub_Power_Dist_1.jpg
HOWEVER, for this process to work effectively, you MUST
have a suitable length of wire on EACH pin BEFORE they are
joined together into a common conductor. In the case of
the ICOM (and numerous other radios) I'd put a 6" piece
of 22AWG pigtail in each pin to be paralleled and bring
the pigtails together into a common conductor at a soldered
joint or butt-splice.
The ballasting resistance of the pigtails is essential
to making the pins share the total loads.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded Wire |
>Bob:
>
>I've read thru the various sections of the book on grounding, wire
>selection, noise etc, as well as the Blue Mountain article and the FAQ.
>
>I already done some wiring in my wing and I'm concerned now that I may
>have done it incorrectly.
>
>Electrically, my wing contains:
>
> Strobe light, power supply mounted at wing tip
> Nav Light
> Landing light
> Taxi light
> Pitot heat power
> Pitot heat controller
> Fuel pump
> Fuel flow sensor
> Remote compass
> Potentiometer
>
>I used twisted shielded wire for all wires with return wires for all power
>supplies. It was intended that all the return wires would terminate at
>what you call a "single point" ground. All power leads/returns are routed
>thru the nose ribs, all control/sensor wires are routed along the rear
>spar. They don't come together until the panel. The wing is all metal,
>fuselage is truss tube.
It's not necessary to separate these bundles . . .
but it doesn't hurt.
>
>For each power lead, I connected the shielding and the return wire
>together at the load location and grounded them locally as well as running
>the return wire back to the "single point" ground. Then, I was going to
>connect the return wire and the shielding at the "single point" and ground
>again there.
One and only one ground . . . local is probably fine
but not both places . . .
>
>In reading Blue Mountain's comment, "Shields are connected at the source
>end, and cut off flush at the load end" and your comment on pg 18-14,
>"I'll further suggest that there's is greater risk that shielding
>improperly terminated at both ends is 100x more likely to be the root
>cause of a noise problem.....", indicates that what I have done may cause
>problems. It was my understanding at the time that that was the correct
>way to do it. Now I can't find what led me to that understanding.
How many shielded wires do you have? Generally
speaking, p-leads, strobe-head leads and the occasional
avionics signal leads are shielded and the installation
instructions for those systems should be followed for
how to handle shield grounds. In some cases, a shield may
be PART of a signal or power distribution path and is CONNECTED
at both ends . . . but only one of those ends will be 'ground'.
>
>For better or worse, I'm stuck using the shielded wire so what should I do
>to properly install it. Does it cause problems to ground the shield at
>both ends. Does it cause problems to ground the return wire locally and
>back at the "single point ground."
>Your comments and explanation would be appreciated.
Where, if any place have you arbitrarily added
shields where they were not called for by
manufacturer's installation instructions?
I am reminded of a telephone call I received from
a LongEz builder about 15 years ago. He recited
the fact that he had wired his airplane with shielded
wire throughout and added a litany of devices on which
he had added "noise filters". He ended the recitation
with, "What else do I need?" I was somewhat taken aback
and had to inquire, "What kind of noise problems are
you experiencing?"
"Oh, none yet. The airplane hasn't flown. I'm just
trying to make sure that I don't have a noise
problem when I'm finished."
I had to inform him that he'd added a lot of unnecessary
pounds and much $time$ to the effort of assembling
his project. I had to advise him to rip it all out
and start over but taking his cues from (1) manufacturer's
installation instructions and (2) observations of
the recipes for success by others - get the service
manual for a C-172 and see what wires are shielded.
I'm curious as to your statement about "stuck using
shielded wire" . . . let's first explore what wires
are shielded and why . . . and then sort out the
best methodology for handling the shields.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Audio panel #inputs vs #sources |
Folks,
I have three inputs that should be 'unswitched':
AOA warning
Traffic Alert
AF3400EM Engine monitor
My audio panel (PS Engineering PMA7000MS) has two unswitched inputs.
Can I tie two of the sources to one input? I think there would only be an issue
if they both went off at teh same time.
Alternatively, I can put the third to a switched input and leave the switch on.
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Bob
In the document you saved to your website, you're missing the building
pictures... which are very important and are in the bottom of the Van's Air
Force thread
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2008 15:28
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
>
>
>
>
> >
> >I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce.
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes
> >
> >Looks pretty neat to me.
> >Pascal
>
> A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in
> an excerpt of the websit and posted it to:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
By the way, Bob
On a broader view of noise protection, let me ask a general (perhaps too
much general) question:
In TC or OBAM aircraft, which of the wires of all used in present electrical
installations must be (or should be) noise protected, and from those which
shall be twisted and which shall be made from shielded wire?
Apart from the ground-loop and careful grounding procedures...
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2008 14:36
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intercom wires
>
>
>
>
> >Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted
intercom
> >that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the
> >wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would
it
> >be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok
> >using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as
> >provided, please send me a PIREP.
>
>
> Virtually all audio system wires in aircraft
> receive 99.99% of their immunity for noise
> propagation by (1) twisting outbound and inbound
> signal return lines and (2) elimination of ground
> loops. Shielding is a prophylactic against
> ELECTROSTATICALLY coupled noises of which there
> are exceedingly few sources and next to none that
> live behind the instrument panel.
>
> While not a 100% sure deal, suppliers of such
> products will have conducted due diligence in
> crafting the design of their offering . . . while
> working to reduce $time$-out-the-door price of
> their product. Leaving off the shields is low
> risk if (1) and (2) are dutifully satisfied
> and it reduces $time$ required to produce the
> product.
>
> At the moment, I have no basis for telling you
> that the supplier did a bad thing. Go ahead and
> install it as-is.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
Bob, it would help if you also added these pictures to the article...
Bret Smith
RV-9A "Fuselage"
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes
>>
>>Looks pretty neat to me.
>>Pascal
>
> A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in
> an excerpt of the websit and posted it to:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Annunciator Panel |
Greg Young wrote:
>I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some
plastic
>strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg
crate
>to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV
the
>egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
Hi Greg,
I made my own annunciator panel, similar to the way you are planning.
Instead of buying strips of plastic, which would probably have been
smarter, I made a "U" shape channel out of E-glass fiberglass and epoxy.
The U channel was the length and width of the annunciator panel. I
laid up thin strips of E-glass for the dividers between the individual
cells and glued them in place with a dab of epoxy at each end. I spray
painted the inside surfaces with flat black paint, which prevented light
leakage between adjacent cells.
I drilled holes in the back of the U channel for the LEDs, and glued
them in place. I made a clear Plexiglas cover for the face and applied
P-Touch labels (printed in reverse type) to the back side of the
Plexiglas. I then placed a smoky black Plexiglas cover over the top, so
that the labels were not visible unless the LED was illuminated. It
looked pretty cool and worked great testing it inside my garage.
However, in direct sunlight once I started flying, the LEDs weren't
bright enough, so I had to remove the smoky black cover. It is now very
functional, but not nearly so cool looking. I'm glad that I didn't glue
the Plexiglas covers in place, because it would have made removing the
dark cover difficult. The Plexiglas cover is sandwiched between the
back side of the instrument panel and a flange around the perimeter of
the annunciator housing. So far, it has stayed clean inside. If dust
or bugs eventually get inside, I can take it apart and clean it.
Good luck with your project,
Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy, 110 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)Qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
How about the egg crate style fluorescent light fixture that is often
used in place of the frosted panels ?
Search for "L2GT PLTS R5" at www.homedepot.com
> I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic
> strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate
> to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the
> egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
> > I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
> > each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you > do not
> get bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the > one
> that is lit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power Conditioning circuits |
>From: "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power Conditioning circuits
>can recommend to take the aircraft power and
>derive a safe supply to the electronics.
>Best regards Peter
Not recommending but this is worth a look.
http://www.miracleantenna.com/Smoothie.htm
I talked to them on the phone. I asked a lot of
questions out of curiosity. They are willing to
explain the operations and design. They claim
it will protect from OV as well as transient spikes.
There is always DC-DC power supplies. I'm sorry
I can't recommend a brand, supplier or model but
if you Google DC-DC power supplies you will find
a lot info and products. These supplies are getting
smaller and lighter and cheaper.
Cheers George
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Panel |
Dennis Johnson wrote:
> Greg Young wrote:
>
>
>> I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic
>> strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate
>> to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the
>> egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
>>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I made my own annunciator panel, similar to the way you are planning. Instead
of buying strips of plastic, which would probably have been smarter, I made
a "U" shape channel out of E-glass fiberglass and epoxy. The U channel was the
length and width of the annunciator panel. I laid up thin strips of E-glass
for the dividers between the individual cells and glued them in place with a
dab of epoxy at each end. I spray painted the inside surfaces with flat black
paint, which prevented light leakage between adjacent cells.
>
> I drilled holes in the back of the U channel for the LEDs, and glued them in
place. I made a clear Plexiglas cover for the face and applied P-Touch labels
(printed in reverse type) to the back side of the Plexiglas. I then placed a
smoky black Plexiglas cover over the top, so that the labels were not visible
unless the LED was illuminated. It looked pretty cool and worked great testing
it inside my garage.
>
> However, in direct sunlight once I started flying, the LEDs weren't bright enough,
so I had to remove the smoky black cover. It is now very functional, but
not nearly so cool looking. I'm glad that I didn't glue the Plexiglas covers
in place, because it would have made removing the dark cover difficult. The
Plexiglas cover is sandwiched between the back side of the instrument panel and
a flange around the perimeter of the annunciator housing. So far, it has stayed
clean inside. If dust or bugs eventually get inside, I can take it apart
and clean it.
>
> Good luck with your project,
> Dennis Johnson
> Lancair Legacy, 110 hours
>
I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a 12V LED
with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a 3/16" hole in the panel
and pushed it in. Done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
Search results in notta.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Page
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
How about the egg crate style fluorescent light fixture that is often
used in place of the frosted panels ?
Search for "L2GT PLTS R5" at www.homedepot.com
> I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some
> plastic strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an
> appropriate egg crate to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover
> so I may glue or RTV the egg crate to it or the overlay for a good
> seal.
> > I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
> > each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you > do not
> get bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the > one
> that is lit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | essential bus wire routing: keep away from you first-class |
galley
Make sure you route your essential bus away from your first class galley.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-jet-scare-as-sink-leaks-onto-wires/2008/01/09/1199554742706.html
Make sure you route your essential bus away from your first class galley.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-jet-scare-as-sink-leaks-onto-wires/2008/01/09/1199554742706.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my strobes
discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or prevent me
from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining on the charge
cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's there.
Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is there something
I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness that it's faint,
doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and a smile and.......?
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Klinefelter <kevann(at)gotsky.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax 914 capacitor |
Hi All,
B&C offer a couple different capacitors, 10,000uF @50VDC and 47,000uF
@16VDC. Is one of these appropriate for use on the Rotax alternator?
Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Annunciator Panel |
That will work if that's what you want. Some would say even that is overkill
since the prop tips chipping the pavement is the ultimate gear warning.
That's the beauty of Experimental - you can do whatever suits your needs or
fancy.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -->
>
> >
> I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a
> 12V LED with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a
> 3/16" hole in the panel and pushed it in. Done.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Panel |
Greg Young wrote:
>
> That will work if that's what you want. Some would say even that is overkill
> since the prop tips chipping the pavement is the ultimate gear warning.
> That's the beauty of Experimental - you can do whatever suits your needs or
> fancy.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
>
>> -->
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>> I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a
>> 12V LED with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a
>> 3/16" hole in the panel and pushed it in. Done.
>>
The way my system works is that a locking pin has to pass through both
sections of the lock to push a switch to enable the light. A pushbutton
on the handle requires activation to turn the light on so I don't have
to have it staring me in the face during the run-up. Confirming the
gear down is a checklist item, but the procedure of having to actually
push the button allows for some muscle memory to backup the checklist 8*)
Ernest (still schedule for a gear up landing 8*)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Everyone...Thank you for all of the responses and suggestions. It looks
like I will need to hit the aviation section at Home Depot again. Although,
sometimes the aviation section at Lowe's is better.
The idea with the U-channel is an excellent one, I wish I had thought of it
sooner. If I can find a piece of the right size, it should work out nicely.
I did contact Paul off-list but did not know the thread existed on VAF.
Thank you for the link. I think I have solved my problem.
I still need to go buy a band saw anyways; that however is a heck of a lot
cheaper than what I was quoted from Statcoswitch for a lighted indicator
matrix.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, 09 January, 2008 08:28
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
>
>I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes
>
>Looks pretty neat to me.
>Pascal
A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in
an excerpt of the websit and posted it to:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | XM radio power cord |
A question regarding an XM Express radio that I use in the airplane and in
the car.
The power cord for the XM radio has a cigarette lighter type plug, is about
three feet long with a mini coaxial plug on the radio end. Clamped on the
cord are two cylinder shaped plastic devices (for lack of a better
descriptive word). There is one on the cig. liter plug end and another
smaller one on the radio end.
The wire used in the power cord is very stiff and difficult to keep
organized and out of the way. I would like to substitute another power cord
that is coiled and stretchy. Much easier to manage and keep neat.
What are the devices clamped on the cord and what is their function? What
will be the impact if I used a power cord without the devices.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded Wire |
Bob:
Maybe this is a little clearer:
All the wires in the wing are shielded.
The wire used is MIL-DTL-27500TG2T14. That particular one is 12AWG, two
conductor, twisted pair, shielded and sheathed. The unshielded version was
not available without special order and long lead time. The weight
difference between shielded and unshielded was 2.75lbs for 1,000 feet so I
got the shielded version.
There are no manufacturer's recommendations per se. Sizing for loads was
done as per AC43-13-2A based on the power consumption rating for each load.
All power loads have a power lead and a return lead. The sensors have how
ever many wires are required by the sensor.
Ignoring connectors, fuses, switches, ground buss etc, all power loads were
to be routed as follows:
Power lead: Bat(+) -to- Load.
Return lead: Load -to- Bat (-) and, Load -to- Airframe (at Local
Ground) -to- Bat (-)
Shielding: - Bat(-) -to- Airframe (at Local Ground)
I can't find where I read it but something led me to believe that if you
were going to use shielded wire it was OK to do it the way I did.
So, given that I am going to use the wire I have, that I am going to run a
return lead for all power loads and that I want to hook up the shielding on
the wire, what is the correct way to do it?
Regarding the return lead, I'm pretty clear that the return lead should not
be grounded at the Bat (-) and at a Local ground. Quote from your response:
" One and only one ground . . . local is probably fine
but not both places . . ."
No problem changing it but why is it such a bad thing to do it that way.
Using the landing light as an example. What harm does it cause to ground it
locally and also run a lead back to the bat (-). Why is that worse than
only grounding locally and the corollary, why is that not better than only
running the lead back to the bat (-). Is the same applicable to the
strobe's power unit and the fuel pump. Would it be the same for something
like a flap actuator motor.
Regarding the shielding: I'm less clear on this. Removing the local ground
from the return lead will also take the shielding out of the ground path
from the Load to the Bat(-). But what about grounding the shielding itself.
Again using the landing light as an example, what is the difference between
grounding at both ends and grounding only at the Bat(-). Is the same
applicable to the strobe's power unit, fuel pump and flap motor.
Looking forward to your explanations.
Thanks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
Anyone know any details about this product?
http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
Charlie,
There is a short description of this unit in the December 2007 newsletter of
the Idaho Aviation Association. Look on page 6 under the District 5 news.
http://www.flyidaho.org/newsletters_old.asp?path 07&menuID=48~48
Mike Creek
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative?
Anyone know any details about this product?
http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
Ralph
Have you tried it outside? My radio picks it up when in a metal hangar
but not when outside. My intercom picks up a little as well via power
supply or ground but hardly noticeable with the engine idling. So it
might not be worth pursuing. The chapter on noise and grounding may be
helpful. And if it is still noticeable a cheap automotive radio power
filter on the strobe power supplies also helped in my case.
Ken
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my strobes
discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or prevent
me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining on the charge
cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's there.
>
> Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is there
something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness that it's
faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and a smile and.......?
>
> Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
In a message dated 01/09/2008 4:46:12 AM Central Standard Time,
jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com writes:
I'm interested in the reason why you are deviating from the standard
mounting for the wing tips, to 'piano hinges', do you intend to put the
'hinge' fully around the curve of the leading edge !!!
Nah, just where ya need 'em- See:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5181_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5181)
click on >>Next Entry>> on each page for the whole story...
>From The PossumWorks in TN\
Mark Phillips
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126)
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several pages)
including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I took Mark's work as a basis, and this is what I ended up with....
Close up:
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/photos/2007-06/Web_Img_9760.jpg
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-07-28.html the final
look,
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-18.html and
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-19.html for some of
the fabrication process.
Just another possible source of ideas.
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A - Inspection next Tue!
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: 10 January 2008 18:14
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
10:16
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
I'll be trying it outside soon and with the engine later - I'm almost thinking
the engine will drown it out...
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 11:45 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop
>
>
>Ralph
>Have you tried it outside? My radio picks it up when in a metal hangar
>but not when outside. My intercom picks up a little as well via power
>supply or ground but hardly noticeable with the engine idling. So it
>might not be worth pursuing. The chapter on noise and grounding may be
>helpful. And if it is still noticeable a cheap automotive radio power
>filter on the strobe power supplies also helped in my case.
>Ken
>
>Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>>
>> I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my
strobes discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or prevent
me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining on the charge
cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's there.
>>
>> Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is there
something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness that it's
faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and a smile and.......?
>>
>> Ralph
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I made my panel out of Honeywell microswitches. It's not really a cheap way,
but the results are nice, and it's fairly straight-forward, with "dead face"
(labels so you KNOW the lamp is out, because it cannot be read unless
illuminated from behind). I also built a push-to-test circuit.
http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm
(just the pictures)
http://www.velocityxl.com/annunciator.JPG
http://www.velocityxl.com/press_to_test.JPG
http://www.velocityxl.com/IMAGES2/GRT3.JPG
I bought mine from these folks http://www.fmw411.com/
Brett
Quoting Carl Morgan :
> I took Mark's work as a basis, and this is what I ended up with....
>
> Close up:
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/photos/2007-06/Web_Img_9760.jpg
>
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-07-28.html the final
> look,
>
>
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-18.html and
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-19.html for some of
> the fabrication process.
>
> Just another possible source of ideas.
>
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A - Inspection next Tue!
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
> Sent: 10 January 2008 18:14
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
>
>
> Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126
>
> Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
> pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>
>
> 10:16
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Chalmers" <david(at)ChalmersFamily.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
There's a good review here http://www.equipped.org/SPOT_ORSummer2007.htm
On 1/9/08, Charlie England wrote:
>
> ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
>
> Anyone know any details about this product?
>
> http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
>
> IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
> after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
> than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions |
Tim the 18 awg and 10 amp fuse is the broad brush
approach, one size fits all. Yes its overkill. You could
use a smaller awg wire and fuse. Also sometimes
people gang off of existing 10 amp CB's and therefore
18 awg is the correct wire size. I used 5 amp and
stayed with the 18 awg because I had it; A short run of
20 awg would work fine. They're just covered their bases.
Notice 13.8 volts spec? You can take some IR loss with
a 14.3-14.5 volt buss.
The wire diagram clearly shows ONE power and ONE
ground with a daisy chain or jumpers. Sorry have no
idea what he's talking about. TWIST? Really. May be
this is new and it does help but I am stumped. I went
with one wire for power and ground. George
If you find a 100% answer why, email me please, thanks
PS Its a great radio but instructions are lousy.
>From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odd ICOM IC-A200
>Power/Ground Instructions
>The ICOM IC-A200 (VHF Comm radio) installation
>instruction
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Icom_ICA200_Installation_Manual.pdf)
>depicts a 10 amp breaker, and tells the installer to "Use
>2 pairs of #18 AWG wires for power and power
>grounding wiring." This struck me as odd, since a
>single 18 AWG wire is normally used with a 10 amp
>breaker, and since the IC-A200 is rated to draw only
>2.6 amps (during transmit).
>I called ICOM tech support and spoke to Mike, who told
>me that I should indeed use two 18 AWG wires for
>power and two 18 AWG wires for ground, and that the
>two wires should be twisted together "to reduce
>interference". He further recommended twisting the end
>of the two wires together, aided by solder, and crimping
>this assembly into the supplied Molex terminal.
>I expressed some skepticism about the efficacy of
>twisting two 12V power wires together to reduce
>interference. I was unable to elicit an explanation of
>the mechanism by which the alleged interference
>reduction was to be achieved. I was also unable to
>elicit an explanation of why it should take two 18AWG
>wires in parallel to supply 2.6 Amps (peak) to
>a radio. I elected not to engage Mike in a discussion of
>the advisability of crimping a connector to a soldered wire.
>Does anybody have insight into reasoning or
>experience that lends credibility to the idea that two 18
>AWG wires should be used for power (and two for
>ground) in an ICOM IC-A200 radio installation?
>Thanks,
>Tim Lewis
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 capacitor |
>
>Hi All,
>B&C offer a couple different capacitors, 10,000uF @50VDC and 47,000uF
>@16VDC. Is one of these appropriate for use on the Rotax alternator?
>Thanks, Kevin
This is not a really critical capacitor with
respect to value but 16v is bit low for
a rating. 25V or more is the target. Furhter,
the "rule of thumb" for sizing is 1,000 uF per
amp of alternator output so the 10KuF/50v is
pretty good for the SD-8. Your system would
be better served by 20KuF/25V or larger.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded Wire |
>
>Bob:
>
>Maybe this is a little clearer:
>
>All the wires in the wing are shielded.
?Why?
>The wire used is MIL-DTL-27500TG2T14. That particular one is 12AWG, two
>conductor, twisted pair, shielded and sheathed. The unshielded version was
>not available without special order and long lead time. The weight
>difference between shielded and unshielded was 2.75lbs for 1,000 feet so I
>got the shielded version.
>
>There are no manufacturer's recommendations per se. Sizing for loads was
>done as per AC43-13-2A based on the power consumption rating for each load.
>
>All power loads have a power lead and a return lead. The sensors have how
>ever many wires are required by the sensor.
>
>Ignoring connectors, fuses, switches, ground buss etc, all power loads were
>to be routed as follows:
>
> Power lead: Bat(+) -to- Load.
> Return lead: Load -to- Bat (-) and, Load -to- Airframe (at Local
>Ground) -to- Bat (-)
> Shielding: - Bat(-) -to- Airframe (at Local Ground)
>
>I can't find where I read it but something led me to believe that if you
>were going to use shielded wire it was OK to do it the way I did.
I'm not sure I'm interpreting you words into an
accurate schematic of your architecture but since
the use of shielding where shielding adds no value,
then exactly how you wire it has no significance
with respect to performance.
>So, given that I am going to use the wire I have, that I am going to run a
>return lead for all power loads and that I want to hook up the shielding on
>the wire, what is the correct way to do it?
>
>Regarding the return lead, I'm pretty clear that the return lead should not
>be grounded at the Bat (-) and at a Local ground. Quote from your response:
>
>" One and only one ground . . . local is probably fine
> but not both places . . ."
>
>No problem changing it but why is it such a bad thing to do it that way.
>Using the landing light as an example. What harm does it cause to ground it
>locally and also run a lead back to the bat (-). Why is that worse than
>only grounding locally and the corollary, why is that not better than only
>running the lead back to the bat (-). Is the same applicable to the
>strobe's power unit and the fuel pump. Would it be the same for something
>like a flap actuator motor.
My personal goals for system design are to achieve
the desired level of performance with a minimum of
parts and minimized $time$ to acquire/install/maintain.
You appear to be asking advice for doing things that
I would not choose to do because they do not add
value under the design goals stated. Doing doesn't
necessarily degrade performance but it's certain
not to enhance it. Are there risks for venturing outside
the simple ideas that support conventional wisdom?
Difficult to predict but probably not.
>Regarding the shielding: I'm less clear on this. Removing the local ground
>from the return lead will also take the shielding out of the ground path
>from the Load to the Bat(-). But what about grounding the shielding itself.
>Again using the landing light as an example, what is the difference between
>grounding at both ends and grounding only at the Bat(-). Is the same
>applicable to the strobe's power unit, fuel pump and flap motor.
>
>Looking forward to your explanations.
A detailed trek through the physics from which
conventional wisdom and common practices evolved
is beyond the scope of what I can do here on
the List. I did a short-course on noise propagation
issues and solutions a few years ago at Hawker-
Beech . . . and that was a 4-hour, Power-Point
presentation.
Suffice it to say that if my mental image
for what you've described is correct,
then there is no reason to expect degradation
of performance and no reason to expect an
enhancement of performance. I.e, shielding
added without specific noise propagation
problems to be solved only adds to weight
of the airplane and cost of ownership. It
follows then that I have no advice based
on physics to offer for "doing it right".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shielded Wire |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Okay, cut this message out and punch three holes into it and stick it into your
book. This is the cat's meow on coaxial cable shielding and grounding from Kimmel
Gerke Associates. I hope they balance my liberal use of their stuff with
the free advertising given here.
http://www.emiguru.com/kgb/sum1996.htm Kimmel Gerke Bullets.
"For many designers, cables and connectors are an afterthought. After all, they
just connect things together, right? But cables and connectors are major entry
and exit points for EMI into and out of electronic systems. They act as "hidden
antennas" for radiated energy, and "hidden conduits" for conducted energy.
"In fact, cables and connectors are so important, they are the often the first
things we check out when troubleshooting EMI problems in a system. Here are a
few thoughts on cable and connector design for EMI.
Trade off shielding for filtering. If you don't filter I/O interfaces, then you
must assume that the highest frequencies inside the unit will end up on the cable
wires. (Or you must assume the cables will intercept the highest frequencies
and bring them into the unit.)
"Just because that RS-232 interface is only operating in the kilobaud range doesn't
stop higher frequencies from hitching a "free ride" on the cables. We've
solved many radiated problems (emissions and immunity) by adding simple filters
to interfaces that were only supposed to carry "slow" or "low frequency" signals.
"The alternate to filtering the cables is shielding the cables. We generally prefer
to filter slower cables, since it's usually more cost effective and easier
to maintain EMI integrity.
"Ground the cable shield. If you do decide to use shielded cables, then the immediate
question becomes how best to ground the cable shield. The correct method
depends on both threat frequencies and circuit impedance levels.
"For problem frequencies below 10 kHz [audio], the preferred approach is to ground
one only one end of the shield. This is to prevent "ground loop" coupling
from the cable shield to the inner wires. This is particularly important for preventing
60 Hz coupling into low level/high impedance circuits used in audio
or instrumentation systems.
"Unfortunately, this is exactly the wrong thing to do for high frequency threats.
For most RF situations [above 10 kHz], the preferred approach is to ground
both ends of the cable shield, to minimize coupling at the open end due to standing
wave effects. So what do you do if both threats exist? You can ground one
end with a small capacitor (1,000- 10,000 pf typical) or you can use two shields
- one grounded on one end, and the other grounded on both ends. In the latter
case, the shields must be insulated from each other.
"One more case where both ends must be grounded is the low frequency/low impedance
case, where magnetic fields are the major culprit. In this case, the strategy
is to minimize "loop size" by providing an adjacent return path for noise
currents. This is often necessary in electrical sub-stations, where large 60 Hz
magnetic fields exist due to the high current levels. Most of the time, however,
single point grounding at low frequencies is the preferred approach.
"Use Care With Connector Terminations. This is extremely important for shielded
cables with EMI threats above about 1 MHz. Poor joints (or worse, "pigtail" connections
from the shield to the connector) are a leading cause EMI-induced failures
on shielded cables. We've seen 20 dB increases in emissions, and 10 fold
reductions in ESD immunity due to poor connections. (Remember, with a 1 nsec
edge rate, ESD is a 300 MHz EMI problem.)
"To maintain high frequency cable shield integrity, you need a circumferential
bond between the cable shield and the connector shell. In addition you need full
metal-to-metal between the mating connectors.
Finally, you need a solid connector-to-chassis connection. One problem we often
see here is with chassis connectors that overlap connector cutouts. The imprecise
fit creates a slot that very effectively couples high frequency energy directly
to/from the cable shield. Think in terms of a garden hose -you need a very
tight connection at the faucet, or else it leaks.
"What About The Cable Shield Itself? Yes, this is a valid concern, but only after
you have addressed the connector termination issues. For frequencies below
about 10 MHz, most cable shielding materials behave about the same, and provide
very respectable amounts of shielding. For frequencies above about 10 MHz, however,
the cable construction becomes important. Loose single braids become increasingly
leaky, so above 10 MHz, you may need high density braid shields. Double
braids work very well here, as do braid over Mylar cable shields. For high
frequencies, both shields should be connected together. "
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157322#157322
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XM radio power cord |
>
>
>A question regarding an XM Express radio that I use in the airplane and in
>the car.
>
>The power cord for the XM radio has a cigarette lighter type plug, is
>about three feet long with a mini coaxial plug on the radio end. Clamped
>on the cord are two cylinder shaped plastic devices (for lack of a better
>descriptive word). There is one on the cig. liter plug end and another
>smaller one on the radio end.
>The wire used in the power cord is very stiff and difficult to keep
>organized and out of the way. I would like to substitute another power
>cord that is coiled and stretchy. Much easier to manage and keep neat.
>What are the devices clamped on the cord and what is their function? What
>will be the impact if I used a power cord without the devices.
I suspect these are ferrite noise filters which
are commonly added to commercial products for the
for the purpose of reducing conducted electro-magnetic
interference between devices connected with the cable.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Filters/Ferrite_EMI_Filter_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Filters/Ferrite_EMI_Filter.jpg
If the devices you're seeing are similar in nature, then
it's probable that your device will FUNCTION if fitted
with a cord that does not have the filters.
But like any non-qualified device use in the airplane,
you should be cognizant of potential for interference
from the XM radio . . . whether filtered or not. Do some
tests and be ready to turn the radio OFF anytime another
radio system seems not to behave as expected.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
>
>
>I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time
>my strobes discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or
>prevent me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No
>whining on the charge cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop
>- but it's there.
>
>Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is
>there something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness
>that it's faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke
>and a smile and.......?
When you think about the physics of what's going
on inside a xenon flash-tube, it has a great deal
in common with a lightning strike. As we all know,
a lighting strike can be "felt" both in terms of
magnetic and electrostatic effects, both of which
have the ability to radiate some distance and/or
couple to conductors.
What you're hearing is the broad spectrum, radiated
noise coming directly from the confines of the ionized
gasses in the tube when it fires.
When we put the first strobes on Cessna single-engine
airplanes in the 60's, there was a lot of fuss about
this mini-strike being heard in the ADF receivers.
We tried some glass with conductive coatings (reduced
light output) and fine-mesh screen wire (really hard to
work with).
Somebody finally noted that, "Bee, when you're tuned to
a station that was strong enough to be useable for either
listening or navigating, the "pop" was imperceptible
and effects on navigation nil."
Chances are that in flight, you're going to discover
the same thing. Now, if it does turn out to be a problem,
you'll need to repeat the same experiments we tried 40
years ago and perhaps some new ones. I'm aware of no
current tricks of the trade that would a apply.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
>Bob, it would help if you also added these pictures to the article...
>
>Bret Smith
>RV-9A "Fuselage"
>Blue Ridge, GA
Done. Thanks!
>> A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in
>> an excerpt of the websit and posted it to:
>>
>>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
As far as 406MHz ELT goes, I currently have an ACK installed in my not-
yet-flying Glasair. This unit is not a 406 MHz unit. With the demise
of satellite tracking on 121.5, I wrote to ACK to ask if they had any
plans to release a 406 unit. The reply was that, yes, they have one
under development. It is an exact replacement for the 121.5 unit,
uses the same remote head, and uses easy to replace, commercially
available batteries (I don't remember what kind, but they were not
Alkaline). I don't remember the price exactly, but it was half of
what the lowest price alternative was. They said to keep watching
their web site and expected it to be available within the first half
of this year.
On Jan 10, 2008, at 9:01 AM, David Chalmers wrote:
> There's a good review here http://www.equipped.org/SPOT_ORSummer2007.htm
>
>
> On 1/9/08, Charlie England wrote:
> >
>
> Anyone know any details about this product?
>
> http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
>
> IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources |
>
>
>Folks,
>
>I have three inputs that should be 'unswitched':
>AOA warning
>Traffic Alert
>AF3400EM Engine monitor
>
>My audio panel (PS Engineering PMA7000MS) has two unswitched inputs.
>Can I tie two of the sources to one input? I think there would only be an
>issue if they both went off at teh same time.
>Alternatively, I can put the third to a switched input and leave the
>switch on.
Put 100 ohm resistors in series with EACH of the three output
before bringing them together whether switched or not. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XM radio power cord |
Thank you Bob. The 'devices' on the power cord look just like the ferrite
filters in the pictures. And thanks for the alert to possible interference
to other radio systems in the airplane.
Dale
>
>>
>>
>>A question regarding an XM Express radio that I use in the airplane and in
>>the car.
>>
>>The power cord for the XM radio has a cigarette lighter type plug, is
>>about three feet long with a mini coaxial plug on the radio end. Clamped
>>on the cord are two cylinder shaped plastic devices (for lack of a better
>>descriptive word). There is one on the cig. liter plug end and another
>>smaller one on the radio end.
>>The wire used in the power cord is very stiff and difficult to keep
>>organized and out of the way. I would like to substitute another power
>>cord that is coiled and stretchy. Much easier to manage and keep neat.
>>What are the devices clamped on the cord and what is their function? What
>>will be the impact if I used a power cord without the devices.
>
> I suspect these are ferrite noise filters which
> are commonly added to commercial products for the
> for the purpose of reducing conducted electro-magnetic
> interference between devices connected with the cable.
>
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Filters/Ferrite_EMI_Filter_2.jpg
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Filters/Ferrite_EMI_Filter.jpg
>
> If the devices you're seeing are similar in nature, then
> it's probable that your device will FUNCTION if fitted
> with a cord that does not have the filters.
>
> But like any non-qualified device use in the airplane,
> you should be cognizant of potential for interference
> from the XM radio . . . whether filtered or not. Do some
> tests and be ready to turn the radio OFF anytime another
> radio system seems not to behave as expected.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources |
Bob,
I have heard 100ohm, 470ohm, and 510ohm. I'm guessing that either will function
properly and that the 470 and 510's will decrease the volume more in addition
to preventing the backfeed.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 10, 2008 9:10 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Folks,
>>
>>I have three inputs that should be 'unswitched':
>>AOA warning
>>Traffic Alert
>>AF3400EM Engine monitor
>>
>>My audio panel (PS Engineering PMA7000MS) has two unswitched inputs.
>>Can I tie two of the sources to one input? I think there would only be an
>>issue if they both went off at teh same time.
>>Alternatively, I can put the third to a switched input and leave the
>>switch on.
>
> Put 100 ohm resistors in series with EACH of the three output
> before bringing them together whether switched or not. See:
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
For all of you that don't know, Mark makes a great static port!
Peter Laurence
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=512
6
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>By the way, Bob
>
>On a broader view of noise protection, let me ask a general (perhaps too
>much general) question:
>
>In TC or OBAM aircraft, which of the wires of all used in present electrical
>installations must be (or should be) noise protected, and from those which
>shall be twisted and which shall be made from shielded wire?
>Apart from the ground-loop and careful grounding procedures...
>
>Carlos
Only those called out as shielded in the manufacturer's installation
instructions. These will be generally limited to strobe head wires,
p-leads, spark plug wires, and the occasional avionics system signal
wire.
The notion here is that nobody knows more than the manufacturer about
the probability for the device becoming either an antagonist or a victim.
Having said that, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to call out
prophylactic noise mitigation processes that make no sense. I.e.,
twisting of power wires going into the back of a transceiver. The
shielding of a power wire coming out of an electronic ignition
power supply. Shielding the b-lead and field-lead on an alternator
(I was at Cessna when we crafted that canard!).
The only risk here is that what ever process is called for is at
worst the byproduct of someone "whistling-in-the-dark" about noises
for which there is no demonstrable experiment. On the upside, the
well crafted system that truly benefits from adding filters or shields
acquires those recommendations for good reasons.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Annunicator panels |
>
>
>Bob
>
>In the document you saved to your website, you're missing the building
>pictures... which are very important and are in the bottom of the Van's Air
>Force thread
>
>Carlos
Are you talking about the two shots that were forwarded to
me by another reader? See reposted document with additions
at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
Thanks for the heads-up!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have heard 100ohm, 470ohm, and 510ohm. I'm guessing that either will
>function properly and that the 470 and 510's will decrease the volume more
>in addition to preventing the backfeed.
>
>Ralph
Astute supposition sir.
Bob . . . ----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shielded Wire |
Before folks get too obsessed with this exercise, know that
Bill Kimmel and Daryl Gerke are the acknowledged gurus of
EMI prevention and control. I've taken Bill's two-day
course and companies I work for have used their assistance
many times for solving protracted problems. I have the
course notebook on shelf above my desk.
MOST of what's addressed in this posting deals with situations
that are not found in your light aircraft electrical system and
only a few issues will be a part of your avionics installation.
Further, these "bullets" are all true but lifted out of context
of the several-to-many minutes of discussion that preceded or
followed it in the course of understanding the physics behind
the idea. "Bullets" or "rules of thumb" are exceedingly poor
substitutes for understanding, especially this set which deal
with situations that the astute system designer should have already
considered the issues before you bought the product.
This illustrates the rationale for my suggestion that the
manufacturer's installation instructions should be your golden
source for how shields should be treated and whether or not
they are even necessary. THOSE are the guys who should have
taken Bill's course (or equal) and they've already done the
homework (EMC lab or extensive field trials where the effects
of EMI were the focus of attention).
For the general population of OBAM aircraft builders to clutch
onto these "twigs of wisdom" in the flood of potential EMI problems
is not a good use of $time$. While the data are good, the likelihood
that the neophyte wire slinger in an RV is going to extract a
project-saving solution to a problem is small and the expenditure
of $time$ will be significant.
If anyone is motivated enough to acquire some skills in this
arena, then it needs to be supported by the sum total of books
and articles from which these gems of wisdom were plucked and
probably the support of a capable teacher to help assemble the
simple-ideas into good inventions. If you do encounter some form
of EMI problem in your project, the likelihood of cherry-picking a
solution from the list below is small.
Bob . . .
>
>Okay, cut this message out and punch three holes into it and stick it into
>your book. This is the cat's meow on coaxial cable shielding and grounding
>from Kimmel Gerke Associates. I hope they balance my liberal use of their
>stuff with the free advertising given here.
>
>http://www.emiguru.com/kgb/sum1996.htm Kimmel Gerke Bullets.
>
>"For many designers, cables and connectors are an afterthought. After all,
>they just connect things together, right? But cables and connectors are
>major entry and exit points for EMI into and out of electronic systems.
>They act as "hidden antennas" for radiated energy, and "hidden conduits"
>for conducted energy.
>
>"In fact, cables and connectors are so important, they are the often the
>first things we check out when troubleshooting EMI problems in a system.
>Here are a few thoughts on cable and connector design for EMI.
>Trade off shielding for filtering. If you don't filter I/O interfaces,
>then you must assume that the highest frequencies inside the unit will end
>up on the cable wires. (Or you must assume the cables will intercept the
>highest frequencies and bring them into the unit.)
>
>"Just because that RS-232 interface is only operating in the kilobaud
>range doesn't stop higher frequencies from hitching a "free ride" on the
>cables. We've solved many radiated problems (emissions and immunity) by
>adding simple filters to interfaces that were only supposed to carry
>"slow" or "low frequency" signals.
>
>"The alternate to filtering the cables is shielding the cables. We
>generally prefer to filter slower cables, since it's usually more cost
>effective and easier to maintain EMI integrity.
>
>"Ground the cable shield. If you do decide to use shielded cables, then
>the immediate question becomes how best to ground the cable shield. The
>correct method depends on both threat frequencies and circuit impedance
>levels.
>
>"For problem frequencies below 10 kHz [audio], the preferred approach is
>to ground one only one end of the shield. This is to prevent "ground loop"
>coupling from the cable shield to the inner wires. This is particularly
>important for preventing 60 Hz coupling into low level/high impedance
>circuits used in audio or instrumentation systems.
>
>"Unfortunately, this is exactly the wrong thing to do for high frequency
>threats. For most RF situations [above 10 kHz], the preferred approach is
>to ground both ends of the cable shield, to minimize coupling at the open
>end due to standing wave effects. So what do you do if both threats exist?
>You can ground one end with a small capacitor (1,000- 10,000 pf typical)
>or you can use two shields - one grounded on one end, and the other
>grounded on both ends. In the latter case, the shields must be insulated
>from each other.
>
>"One more case where both ends must be grounded is the low frequency/low
>impedance case, where magnetic fields are the major culprit. In this case,
>the strategy is to minimize "loop size" by providing an adjacent return
>path for noise currents. This is often necessary in electrical
>sub-stations, where large 60 Hz magnetic fields exist due to the high
>current levels. Most of the time, however, single point grounding at low
>frequencies is the preferred approach.
>
>"Use Care With Connector Terminations. This is extremely important for
>shielded cables with EMI threats above about 1 MHz. Poor joints (or worse,
>"pigtail" connections from the shield to the connector) are a leading
>cause EMI-induced failures on shielded cables. We've seen 20 dB increases
>in emissions, and 10 fold reductions in ESD immunity due to poor
>connections. (Remember, with a 1 nsec edge rate, ESD is a 300 MHz EMI problem.)
>
>"To maintain high frequency cable shield integrity, you need a
>circumferential bond between the cable shield and the connector shell. In
>addition you need full metal-to-metal between the mating connectors.
>Finally, you need a solid connector-to-chassis connection. One problem we
>often see here is with chassis connectors that overlap connector cutouts.
>The imprecise fit creates a slot that very effectively couples high
>frequency energy directly to/from the cable shield. Think in terms of a
>garden hose -you need a very tight connection at the faucet, or else it leaks.
>
>"What About The Cable Shield Itself? Yes, this is a valid concern, but
>only after you have addressed the connector termination issues. For
>frequencies below about 10 MHz, most cable shielding materials behave
>about the same, and provide very respectable amounts of shielding. For
>frequencies above about 10 MHz, however, the cable construction becomes
>important. Loose single braids become increasingly leaky, so above 10 MHz,
>you may need high density braid shields. Double braids work very well
>here, as do braid over Mylar cable shields. For high frequencies, both
>shields should be connected together. "
>
>--------
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge, MA 01550
>(508) 764-2072
>emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources |
Thanks - occasionally, I have an active brain cell or two.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 11, 2008 10:47 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>I have heard 100ohm, 470ohm, and 510ohm. I'm guessing that either will
>>function properly and that the 470 and 510's will decrease the volume more
>>in addition to preventing the backfeed.
>>
>>Ralph
>
> Astute supposition sir.
>
> Bob . . . ----------------------------------------)
>
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I think it is more about making sure the PLB is actually transmitting while still
airborne....I believe the satalites can actually register the signal relatively
quickly but may not have the actual GPS coordinates locked in.
So making an assumption that you have say 2 minutes before you hit the ground and
in the worse case the PLB is destroyed (unlikely) , is that enough time time
to alert SAR?..I'm thinking you may not have gotten the accurate GPS lock but
a 2 square mile position (from triangulating the signal itself) is a whole lot
better than no position at all.
Your thoughts?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
-->
If you want satellites locked in, consider getting your amateur radio license (ham)
and then start carrying (or install) a Tiny Track (or something similar).
http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/
And use it to keep your position updated via APRS:
http://www.googleaprs.com/
Then people will have a way to see your flight is/was going.
I wonder if ADS-B is going to support something similar.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Indeed, and you can always activate it when you know you are going down.
> In fact I wonder how reliable the G switches are in the case of ELT's
> anyway...121.5 ELTs are notoriously innefective but the 406 units will
> still have the same kind of G switch technology I would presume, how
> well do they work?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I bought those ports but then read so much about Van's being the only ports
that were accurate that I put them on the shelf and installed Van's "rivet
ports".
Has anyone flown with the Safe-Air ports and found them to be as accurate as
Van's?
TIA
Allen Fulmer
RV7 wiring and avionics
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
Laurence
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:03 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
For all of you that don't know, Mark makes a great static port!
Peter Laurence
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | Toggle switch tool |
Bob,
Some time ago someone mentioned a tool for tightening the nut on toggle
switches without scratching the painted panel surface. I suppose if it's a
hex nut on the switch, a deep socket wrench (9/16?) would work. However
some switches come with a knurled nut. Is there a tool for this? Can't
seem to find one at any of the on-line vendors I've tried. Probably because
I don't know what it's called. Any help is appreciated.
Bevan
RV7A wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch tool |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Bevan,
I solved this issue by just buying 9/16" hex nuts. B&C Electrical sells spare
hex nuts, lock washers and anti-rotation washers for switches. I bought several
as replacements to any knurled nuts I had. I also figured I would need some
spare nuts and washers for those I will eventually drop on the floor and have
roll into inaccessible places.
FYI, it was the switches I got from SteinAir that came with knurled nuts. All
switches that I got from B&C came with hex nuts.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157511#157511
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Annunicator panels |
> >
> >In the document you saved to your website, you're missing the building
> >pictures... which are very important and are in the bottom of the Van's
Air
> >Force thread
> >
> >Carlos
>
> Are you talking about the two shots that were forwarded to
> me by another reader? See reposted document with additions
> at:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf
>
> Thanks for the heads-up!
>
> Bob . . .
You're welcome, sir!
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Mark,
That's actually better than what I was looking for!
I could buy those LED rectangles and mount them behind the reverse engraved
acrylic front and have exactly what I am looking for. Any idea on whether
the measurements on the rectangles are in mm?
Thank you for posting that information. You have solved my problem! Look
at that - its only January and already my list contribution has paid off.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, 09 January, 2008 22:14
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry
<http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126>
&log_id=5126
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
_____
Start the year off right. Easy
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
ways to stay in shape in the new year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
I can't imagine that, if I'm having a critical emergency, that Im
going to say, "OK, two minutes before crashing, I'm going to activate
my PLB". Even remembering that it needs to be activated at all is
unlikely, given the amount of adrenaline that will be pumping through
your system. What do you do if you loose a prop, or have a door open
and can barely control the airplane? "Oh, yea, don't forget to
activate the PLB".
It's your airplane, and your emergency situation to plan for, so do
what suits you. As for me, even though automatic triggering functions
aren't perfect, I'll stick with an ELT that can be triggered both ways.
Steve
On Jan 11, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> I think it is more about making sure the PLB is actually
> transmitting while still airborne....I believe the satalites can
> actually register the signal relatively quickly but may not have the
> actual GPS coordinates locked in.
>
> So making an assumption that you have say 2 minutes before you hit
> the ground and in the worse case the PLB is destroyed (unlikely) ,
> is that enough time time to alert SAR?..I'm thinking you may not
> have gotten the accurate GPS lock but a 2 square mile position (from
> triangulating the signal itself) is a whole lot better than no
> position at all.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I would certainly agree it depends upon your particular circumstances and having
automatic activation is better than not having it.
As for me I tend to fly to the outer regions of the USA only when accompanied by
my better half..Her sole job in an emergency is to get the antenna up and fingers
poised over the "On" button. So for me I think its a reasonable plan.
I still carry the PLB for short hops...a 200mph airplane can get an awfully long
way away in what seems like a short flight and for this a 406Mhz ELT would be
better.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
I can't imagine that, if I'm having a critical emergency, that Im going to say,
"OK, two minutes before crashing, I'm going to activate my PLB". Even remembering
that it needs to be activated at all is unlikely, given the amount of adrenaline
that will be pumping through your system. What do you do if you loose
a prop, or have a door open and can barely control the airplane? "Oh, yea,
don't forget to activate the PLB".
It's your airplane, and your emergency situation to plan for, so do what suits
you. As for me, even though automatic triggering functions aren't perfect, I'll
stick with an ELT that can be triggered both ways.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Hi Scott,
Finding the LED bars was a bit of a struggle..... some pointers that
might.... They are generically known as "LED Light Bars".
Some specific model numbers / sources:
Stanley MU02-2101 , DigiKey 404-1145-ND - I think that is what Mark used.
Kingston 404-1145-ND, Can be sourced from RS Components
Agilent HLCP-H100, not sure - but probably mouser
The other probably I had was I could get red of one type, yellow of a
different type and green of a third type from a different vendor!
I ended up paying a little more, but got all Kingston modules through RS
Components and are about 9mm x 19mm visible and sit in a 2x8 way DIL socket.
Regards,
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: 12 January 2008 08:51
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Mark,
Thats actually better than what I was looking for!
I could buy those LED rectangles and mount them behind the reverse
engraved acrylic front and have exactly what I am looking for. Any idea on
whether the measurements on the rectangles are in mm?
Thank you for posting that information. You have solved my problem! Look
at that - its only January and already my list contribution has paid off.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, 09 January, 2008 22:14
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126
Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several
pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
18:09
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
Greetings Listers,
The airplane I'm building is intended for off airport operations. I
believe my most likely accident scenario is striking a an object close to
the ground. That will give me virtually no time to do anything before the
event is over. I consider the automatic activation feature manditory for my
anticipated mission profile.
Another subject I have seen almost no comment on is water operation
accidents and ELTs.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
>
>
> I would certainly agree it depends upon your particular circumstances and
> having automatic activation is better than not having it.
>
> As for me I tend to fly to the outer regions of the USA only when
> accompanied by my better half..Her sole job in an emergency is to get the
> antenna up and fingers poised over the "On" button. So for me I think its
> a reasonable plan.
>
> I still carry the PLB for short hops...a 200mph airplane can get an
> awfully long way away in what seems like a short flight and for this a
> 406Mhz ELT would be better.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Thomas
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:00 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
>
>
> I can't imagine that, if I'm having a critical emergency, that Im going to
> say, "OK, two minutes before crashing, I'm going to activate my PLB".
> Even remembering that it needs to be activated at all is unlikely, given
> the amount of adrenaline that will be pumping through your system. What
> do you do if you loose a prop, or have a door open and can barely control
> the airplane? "Oh, yea, don't forget to activate the PLB".
>
> It's your airplane, and your emergency situation to plan for, so do what
> suits you. As for me, even though automatic triggering functions aren't
> perfect, I'll stick with an ELT that can be triggered both ways.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I used 14x16mm light bars for mine. Got red, green and yellow from Digikey
at ~$1.60 a piece. Link to red bar:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=404-1152-ND
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Morgan
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Hi Scott,
Finding the LED bars was a bit of a struggle..... some pointers that
might.... They are generically known as "LED Light Bars".
Some specific model numbers / sources:
Stanley MU02-2101 , DigiKey 404-1145-ND - I think that is what Mark used.
Kingston 404-1145-ND, Can be sourced from RS Components
Agilent HLCP-H100, not sure - but probably mouser
The other probably I had was I could get red of one type, yellow of a
different type and green of a third type from a different vendor!
I ended up paying a little more, but got all Kingston modules through RS
Components and are about 9mm x 19mm visible and sit in a 2x8 way DIL socket.
Regards,
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: 12 January 2008 08:51
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
Mark,
That's actually better than what I was looking for!
I could buy those LED rectangles and mount them behind the reverse engraved
acrylic front and have exactly what I am looking for. Any idea on whether
the measurements on the rectangles are in mm?
Thank you for posting that information. You have solved my problem! Look
at that - its only January and already my list contribution has paid off.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch tool |
>
>Bob,
>
>Some time ago someone mentioned a tool for tightening the nut on toggle
>switches without scratching the painted panel surface. I suppose if it's a
>hex nut on the switch, a deep socket wrench (9/16?) would work. However
>some switches come with a knurled nut. Is there a tool for this? Can't
>seem to find one at any of the on-line vendors I've tried. Probably because
>I don't know what it's called. Any help is appreciated.
Dave has already offered the same advice I would offer.
The knurled nuts are sexy looking but a B@#$@h to deal
with mechanically. Years ago I had a "knurled nut driver"
that had exactly the right diameter and numbers of teeth
to firmly engage those nuts. It did a nice job of getting
the nut tight without damaging the panel. However, as
years went buy, more manufacturers came out with almost-a-
clone of the nuts that had been something of a de-facto
standard part in the US. My tool was found not to fit
every knurled nut in the wild. I think I pitched it.
With regard to tools for tightening switch nuts:
There are some nice 9/16, hollow shaft nut drivers
by Craftsman an others that are already very smooth
(polished) and have no or minimal internal relief or
radius on the inside corners so that they'll get
good engagement on thin nuts.
I've taken el-cheeso nut drivers and/or deep sockets
and sanded the open ends flat with ever finer
paper with the last pass being with polish compound
on a buffing wheel. This tool will not mark your
panel adjacent to the nut you're working. Nowadays,
I'd probably chuck the socket in the lathe and use
Dremmel tools to finish the open end.
All my new panels are Lexan fronts so are quite
resistant to scratching but it's a good point of
craftsmanship to have a 9/16" tool specifically
tailored to this task.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
On the big scale I think the government is pushing this conversion (as
they are ADS-B) to enable better tracking on each GA aircraft. In the
end they will have a dozen ways to track, charge and identify everyone.
Can't wait.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
--> (Corvallis)"
I think it is more about making sure the PLB is actually transmitting
while still airborne....I believe the satalites can actually register
the signal relatively quickly but may not have the actual GPS
coordinates locked in.
So making an assumption that you have say 2 minutes before you hit the
ground and in the worse case the PLB is destroyed (unlikely) , is that
enough time time to alert SAR?..I'm thinking you may not have gotten the
accurate GPS lock but a 2 square mile position (from triangulating the
signal itself) is a whole lot better than no position at all.
Your thoughts?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB
-->
If you want satellites locked in, consider getting your amateur radio
license (ham) and then start carrying (or install) a Tiny Track (or
something similar).
http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/
And use it to keep your position updated via APRS:
http://www.googleaprs.com/
Then people will have a way to see your flight is/was going.
I wonder if ADS-B is going to support something similar.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> (Corvallis)"
>
>
> Indeed, and you can always activate it when you know you are going
> down. In fact I wonder how reliable the G switches are in the case of
> ELT's anyway...121.5 ELTs are notoriously innefective but the 406
> units will still have the same kind of G switch technology I would
> presume, how well do they work?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch tool |
All:
Along the same lines does anyone know where you can get a tool that works on
the slotted knurled nuts that go on headphone jacks. I have seen one
before, but I have been looking for one for the past few years without luck.
Thanks
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch tool
>
> Bob,
>
> Some time ago someone mentioned a tool for tightening the nut on toggle
> switches without scratching the painted panel surface. I suppose if it's
a
> hex nut on the switch, a deep socket wrench (9/16?) would work. However
> some switches come with a knurled nut. Is there a tool for this? Can't
> seem to find one at any of the on-line vendors I've tried. Probably
because
> I don't know what it's called. Any help is appreciated.
>
> Bevan
> RV7A wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
The required 121.5Mhz ELT in the plane didn't do him any good, either.
I haven't checked lately on the price difference between PLBs & 406
ELTs. If there's a serious difference, remember we are supposed to be
homebuilt a/c experimenters. Ever looked at the G-switch on a typical
ELT? The ones I've seen are just a pivoting steel weight next to an
off-the-shelf miniature toggle switch.Get to work on that PLB. :-)
Charlie
Steve Thomas wrote:
>
> Well, a PLB may be less expensive, but it presumes that you are
> conscious when you need to activate it. Or that you will successfully
> regain consciousness before, well, you know. Steve Fausset had a
> personal PLB - didn't do him any good at all. Just a thought.
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Giffen Marr wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am planning on using the cheapest ELT available to meet the FAR 91
>> Requirements and a 406 PLB. The current cost of ELT's meeting the 406
>> requirements are out of sight as compared to the 121.5 units. The other
>> advantage is the PLB is not much larger then a cell phone as compared
>> to the
>> ELT. Only advantage to the ELT is the battery life may be longer then the
>> PLB.
>>
>> Giff Marr
>> LIV-P/Mistral 65%
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch tool |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
From: "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch tool
Send reply to: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Along the same lines does anyone know where you can get a tool that works on
> the slotted knurled nuts that go on headphone jacks. I have seen one
> before, but I have been looking for one for the past few years without luck.
Such as.....
http://tinyurl.com/35gujq
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
"On the big scale I think the government is pushing this conversion (as they
are ADS-B) to enable better tracking on each GA aircraft. In the end they
will have a dozen ways to track, charge and identify everyone.
Can't wait."
That's quite a pessimistic view. Anyone with something to hide will simply
not use whatever the technology is. I think the government desperately
needs to cut costs for searches that can easily exceed your lifetimes worth
of taxes. It may speed up the rescue process which may give you a better
chance of survival, but in the larger picture, it's about saving very large
amounts of money.
Bevan
RV7A wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
In a message dated 01/11/2008 1:53:32 PM Central Standard Time,
sshook(at)cox.net writes:
Any idea on whether the measurements on the rectangles are in mm?
Here's the Digikey page with the LED modules- is gives dimensions in mm-
_http://digi-key.dirxion.com/Main.asp_ (http://digi-key.dirxion.com/Main.asp)
N-joy!
Mark
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com> |
| Subject: | Terminal Tool TT5000 |
Anyone used one of these:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-937-80-the-terminal-tool.aspx
It looks like it might be good for those heavy gauge wires.
Thanks,
Mike Cencula
RV-7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Terminal Tool TT5000 |
There is at least one builder who has one, but I can't remember who. He
said it was the "cats meow". I just can't justify paying $150.00 for the
(4) fat wire crimps I need...
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D. Cencula
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Terminal Tool TT5000
-->
Anyone used one of these:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-937-80-the-terminal-tool.aspx
It looks like it might be good for those heavy gauge wires.
Thanks,
Mike Cencula
RV-7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Toggle switch tool |
I avoided the issue all together. My switches are mounted on a u channel
with thru holes drilled for anti rotation. The whole channel mounts
behind the panel with just the nose of the switch bushings partially
onto the back of the panel.
* only 4 screws exposed
* Can be dropped from behind the panel for service or panel removal
* Labeled with an engraved panel from Front Panel Express
"www.*frontpanel**express*.com/"
* Switches can be tightened to the channel without damage to the panel
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Terminal Tool TT5000 |
Kool!
See http://www.rv7blog.com/2007/11/04/fancy-crimper/
Looks like something that would be good in a chapter tool crib!
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Automatic fuel pump backup switch |
| From: | "mtmeans" <mtmeans(at)cox.net> |
I have an auto conversion project with dual high pressure fuel pumps. The fuel
pumps are plumbed in parallel with one way valves and are not happy when running
together (stronger pump blocks flow of weaker), ie harmful to switch secondary
on during critical flight. Reflexes being what they are during these times
I am considering a fuel pressure (or other switch) that could turn on the second
pump if first fails. Any suggestions. I tried to search for this exact issue
and had problems. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157617#157617
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic fuel pump backup switch |
>
>I have an auto conversion project with dual high pressure fuel pumps. The
>fuel pumps are plumbed in parallel with one way valves and are not happy
>when running together (stronger pump blocks flow of weaker), ie harmful to
>switch secondary on during critical flight. Reflexes being what they are
>during these times I am considering a fuel pressure (or other switch) that
>could turn on the second pump if first fails. Any suggestions. I tried to
>search for this exact issue and had problems. Thanks.
The Eggenfellner Subaru conversion recommends
the arrangement I believe you're looking for.
Their recommended installation calls for a
pair of pumps, either of which can run the engine
through appropriate plumbing parts . . .
On the electrical side, he suggests a #1, #2, Auto
switch for pump selection. #1 and #2 are self
explanatory. One or the other but not both. The Auto
position powers the #1 pump through relaxed contacts
of a relay that is energized by the closing of a low
pressure switch. Once the relay is energized, contacts
transition to remove power from #1 and apply power to
#2 pump. At the same time, the relay is electrically
latched so that it will not de-energize without some
externally applied conditions (pilot actions, loss of
electrical power) that cause the relay to relax.
I'll be incorporating this feature into an Eggenfellner
version of Z-19 but before that drawing comes out, I'll
refer you to their webite publications at:
http://eggenfellneraircraft.com/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)Qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
Ralph,
I had this same problem with the strobes in my Cessna 172.
I solved it by inserting a 1N4002 diode in the power feed to my
intercom and putting a 2200uF/35V capacitor between power and ground
on the intercom side.
Unfortunately this was after rewiring all the intercom wires which had
been shoddily installed and incorrectly grounded at both ends. Parts
were what I had at hand. It is an easy thing to for you to try.
I also found the problem was much more noticable when testing on the
ground when the alternator was not running to boost the voltage than
when flying.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop
>
> I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my
> strobes discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or
> prevent me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining
> on the charge cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's
> there.
>
> Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system?
> Is there something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness
> that it's faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and
> a smile and.......?
>
> Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automatic fuel pump backup switch |
----- Original Message -----
From: "mtmeans" <mtmeans(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Automatic fuel pump backup switch
>>>> The fuel pumps are plumbed in parallel with one way valves and are not
>>>> happy when running together (stronger pump blocks flow of weaker)
But isn't that the same as happens when the system is not using any fuel
except for what may return if there is a return line.
I have the same system with low pressure (6#) pumps and carburetor. I run
both pumps during all critical operations as I feel there is no time for
decisions close to the ground even if there was time to get pressure.
Aaron Gustafson Zenith 601HD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop |
>
>Ralph,
>
>I had this same problem with the strobes in my Cessna 172.
>I solved it by inserting a 1N4002 diode in the power feed to my
>intercom and putting a 2200uF/35V capacitor between power and ground
>on the intercom side.
>Unfortunately this was after rewiring all the intercom wires which had
>been shoddily installed and incorrectly grounded at both ends. Parts
>were what I had at hand. It is an easy thing to for you to try.
>
>I also found the problem was much more noticable when testing on the
>ground when the alternator was not running to boost the voltage than
>when flying.
Interesting! This demonstrates that the noise is conducted
and the only way that the flash-tube circuit can couple to
ship's wiring is magnetic or electrostatic. Twisting of
the strobe head wires under a shield takes care of both of
these coupling modes except where a ground loop (something
connected to airframe at fixture end of wires).
As an experiment, try operating your victim system(s) from
their own quiet power source . . . say a couple of 6v lantern
batteries in series. Get some el-cheesos from Wal-Mart.
If the noise goes away while powered only by the batteries,
then it's coming in through the +14v power wires. In this case,
adding the diode and capacitor as cited above is worth exploring.
Alternatively, it's worth exploring how the admittedly intense
flash tube noises are getting out of their normally tight
confines.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Good comments, I'll just add a few points.
Yes a PLB is a great adjunct while the 406Mhz Regs
are in limbo (not yet mandated). Heck a PLB is a great
thing to have for you, your wife in kids in the car, boat,
skiing, hiking. How many people get lost or stuck.
(story below)
PLB's are NOT ELT's
PLB's advertise they have the same output power, but
they don't get out as well with the small portable
antenna. Besides compromises in the antenna,
battery life is less. The antenna has no real ground
plane. It can't meet
With that said PLB's are are pretty good for the
money and I want one. With PLB limitations said, if
your airframe mounted ELT's antenna is crushed
under the plane it will not work well either. Of
course a PLB needs to be manually turned on.
The PLB is good idea even if you have a 406 ELT.
The 406ME Artex ELT is the only game in "low cost"
units for aviation at about $1000. Others are working
on units but from what I am told, the specs almost
mandate a lithium Ion battery (as Aertex has) and
you can forget cheap "D" cells. They don't cut it.
The END IS NEAR
The 243 MHz is going away, period. As many
limitations as the old ELT technology had, its going to
get even less effective. The 243 MHz Sats are going
to stop looking (so they say). Widely advertised is the
accuracy of the 406 MHz technology, almost perfect
with GPS input. No guarantees in life, but 406 is better.
There is an aviation 406 ELT that can be removed
and used with a portable antenna. The basic Artex
is the 406ME ($1000), the one with the portable
antenna is 406ME/P. They look similar, but I'm told
they case is different (probably a ground plane).
The antenna folds out almost two feet. It cost about
$200 or $300 more? If they could only add internal
GPS but than you have another GPS antenna and
the extra battery drain. Artex commercial models with
GPS interface are BIG bucks. If you have a 406 MHz
ELT it seems like a shame not to transmit ELT pos
since the capability is there. The SAR comes right to
you. Of course that is where the 121.5Mhz comes in,
that is for local DF.
The PLB for the military and marine use have portable
capability. So may be one of these PLB might be
better than general consumer types?
Steve Fossett has not been found and may never be.
The RV pilot that was lost over NM and TX boarder
was not found for months, even with ATC radar
tracking. If you want to be found or you want your
family to have a body to bury, you need a working
ELT. The 406Mhz is your best bet.
Also the Artex 406ME does not have GPS data. For
only $600-$700 you can get GPS data with a PLB. It
could save your life in a car, boat or hiking.
Story: There have been many cases where people
get lost hiking or a person just drives off the road,
survives but is not found for days. Some times they
find them alive a week later off the side of the road,
even though they where only 50 yards from the
freeway, on their normal routes from home to work or
shopping. In one tragic case the police would not pull-
up the Cel Phone ping info for several days for a
woman, despite the husband's request. Missing
person wait period rules I guess. When they did get
the Cel phone triangulation, they found the car, in
gully off the side of the road, but the woman had
expired. She was alive for a day or more. PLB might
have saved her if she could have activated it. The
January 04, 2008 - January 12, 2008
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hn