AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hs
March 23, 2008 - April 11, 2008
NipponDenso. I'll test it on mine. Interesting.
You are right, in a car the IGN is not ON unless the
driver puts the IGN switch to the IGN position.
Even the industrial alternators have a "soft start"
function. The internal VR sense voltage from several
places internally from the rotor, stator, rectifier and
externally, b-lead, ign and even a remote voltage sense
in some models. It does not see RPM, but it sees that
EMF from the rotation. With internal timers it ramps the
voltage regulator on. So it probably tickles the field a little
to get things going, but the ON drain should through the
IGN lead is always small . I guess 50 milliamps, but it
may be switching the B-lead drain on. The field voltage
comes from the b-lead not the IGN lead. The IGN as
you know is just an WAKE / SLEEP signal.
I wounder if its a leaky rectifier diode?
I'll test this. I never checked this. I want to understand
how the internal VR works. I wonder what an external
VR does being on for a long time before spinning it?
>From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new)
>No It was purchased new about 5 years ago and it always did this.
>ps. I assume you meant to type 50 milliamps above. I've never seen
>anything near that high (yet) but standby parasitic current "leakage"
>is getting ridiculous on cars these days.
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Moving a battery |
Hello all,
We've just completed the second flight of our velocity
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpyMP7GkA-Y), and find that we really
are a bit more nose heavy than is really right, so if I want to carry
passengers I need to move my battery from the nose to back near the
firewall. So, I'm looking at my options, and want some input.
My current wiring diagram is here
http://www.velocityxl.com/Power/Power_Distribution.htm . Since it's a
pusher I already have a full-sized 2 gauge wire running the full length
of the airplane for the starter and the ground. My concern is around
the battery bus and the ground power, they currently connect directly to
the batter contactor's always-hot side with short runs. I don't really
want to move these bits, nor do I really want them on the switched-side
of the master. However, I'm not tickled with the idea of have a 20' run
of always hot 2ga wire either. I thought about putting a 200A ANL
current limiter on both ends, since you only *need* to protect the wire,
but who am I kidding, only 200A? That's not going to help sleep at
night knowing she's in the hangar like that.
So, it seems to me that my only *realistic* options are:
1) put the ground power in the back, and fuse the battery bus always-hot
at 30A (since it back-feeds the e-bus) with a new 8 gauge or so wire
2) put the ground power on the switched side, and require the master be
on to charge the battery (and fuse the battery bus always-hot at 30A,
same as #1)
3) ??
Any thoughts and/or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manuals |
Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you can
still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I
found are listed here)
http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
Brett
William Slaughter wrote:
> Try
>
> http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill Bradburry
> *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
>
>
>
> I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didnt I see where
> someone had these manuals on a website somewhere?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill B
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>
>Today I ran the engine. I was not sure how to make a "hard connection
>to bypass the control relay" as you suggested.
Take the relay out of the circuit. I.e. don't use the
relay to control it, just let the alternator be ON
all the time.
> So I just operated the
>system normally. Minimal load the voltage was initially 11.8 and then
>went to 11.9 with the master on "alternator". No further change after
>about three minutes. Looks like I may not be getting alternator input??
>As I said, normally I get 13 v.
It should certainly be higher than 12v . . . the battery
delivers energy at 12.5 and below, it gets charged at
13.5 and above. Your normal operating voltage should be
around 14.2 to 14.6 volts.
What you've described suggests that alternator is either
(1) not working due to failed rectifier/regulator or
(2) not connected to the system due to a failed relay.
>I did not charge the battery before hand.
>
>I pulled the covers off (cowling, etc). The relay appears to be
>undamaged. I don't see any signs that would indicate it was "fried".
Hmmmm . . . I've never seen the aftermath of one of these
relays going to toast. It has to have happened somewhere,
sometime. Even the big guys go up in flames sometimes. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/6041_Contactor.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/6041_Contactor_Failure.jpg
>During the even I was unable to tell exactly where the smoke was
>actually coming from--just from under the panel.
Where are your regulator and relay mounted? If they're
under the cowl I'm wondering how you got smoke from either
of these devices . . . the engine and people spaces are
supposed to be pretty well isolated from each other.
>I've ordered another relay. I'll plug it in and see what happens. Any
>other suggestions?
Yes, take the relay completely out of the circuit disconnect the
two fat wires from the relay and hook them to each other.
You can cut a little piece of metal (brass is best but a
piece of tin can will work) as shown in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Relay_Bypass_Test.jpg
The technique here is "divide and conquer" . . . by taking
the relay completely out of the equation, you can quickly
find if it can be eliminated from the possible root causes
of failure. However, at this stage of the investigation,
if you could not see visible damage to the relay, I suspect
that it is not root cause.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Is there any place to get King manuals?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
> Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you can
> still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I
> found are listed here)
>
> http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
>
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pd
> f
> http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferen
> ceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-
> CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
>
>
> Brett
>
> William Slaughter wrote:
> > Try
> >
> > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > William
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Bill Bradburry
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM
> > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where
> > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill B
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >
> > **
> >
> > * *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I have a KLN90B POH if you need it.
Bill S
7a Ark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Curry
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
-->
Is there any place to get King manuals?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
> Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you
> can still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones
> I found are listed here)
>
> http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
>
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pd
> f
> http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefe
> ren
> ceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-
> CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
>
>
> Brett
>
> William Slaughter wrote:
> > Try
> >
> > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > William
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Bill Bradburry
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM
> > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where
> > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill B
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >
> > **
> >
> > * *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Moving a battery |
>
>Hello all,
>
>We've just completed the second flight of our velocity
>(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpyMP7GkA-Y), and find that we really
>are a bit more nose heavy than is really right, so if I want to carry
>passengers I need to move my battery from the nose to back near the
>firewall. So, I'm looking at my options, and want some input.
>
>My current wiring diagram is here
>http://www.velocityxl.com/Power/Power_Distribution.htm . Since it's a
>pusher I already have a full-sized 2 gauge wire running the full length
>of the airplane for the starter and the ground. My concern is around
>the battery bus and the ground power, they currently connect directly to
>the batter contactor's always-hot side with short runs. I don't really
>want to move these bits, nor do I really want them on the switched-side
>of the master. However, I'm not tickled with the idea of have a 20' run
>of always hot 2ga wire either. I thought about putting a 200A ANL
>current limiter on both ends, since you only *need* to protect the wire,
>but who am I kidding, only 200A? That's not going to help sleep at
>night knowing she's in the hangar like that.
>
>So, it seems to me that my only *realistic* options are:
>1) put the ground power in the back, and fuse the battery bus always-hot
>at 30A (since it back-feeds the e-bus) with a new 8 gauge or so wire
That seems to be the best solution. Given that you have dual
alternators a-la Z-12, then perhaps an e-bus is overly redundant.
Just tie it right to the main bus.
If ground power moves aft, then your panel feeders for the main
bus and ground can probably drop to 4AWG and move the c.g. still
further aft. In fact, with the battery back next to the engine,
ALL the fat feeders can drop to 4AWG and recover some empty weight
too.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
Which ones do you need?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Curry
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
Is there any place to get King manuals?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
> Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you
can
> still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I
> found are listed here)
>
> http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
>
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide
.pd
> f
> http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
>
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefere
n
> ceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-
> CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
>
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
>
>
> Brett
>
> William Slaughter wrote:
> > Try
> >
> > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > William
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *Bill Bradburry
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM
> > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see
where
> > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill B
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > **
> >
> > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >
> > **
> >
> > * *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | UltraLast AA Battery Tests |
A few days ago I received some non-mainstream alkaline AA
cells to test for capacity.
These are sold under the UltraLast brand. Unfortunately,
they do not live up to their name. Their performance is
plotted against several other brands at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/AA_Battery_Tests_80322.jpg
Seems even the Harbor Freight cells will edge out these
puppies. Bad value? Depends.
They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from
some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks
of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if
you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80
or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then
they could be said to be a good value.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | currydon(at)bellsouth.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <frank.phyllis(at)mindspring.com> |
I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with
voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to
13v.
I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same 13v.
I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system
with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v.
Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what
else to check.
Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what
happens.
(I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the
testing it was 12.85v)
I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I
can figure it out I'll let you know.
Thanks
Frank
N5929
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke
>
>Bob,
>
>Today I ran the engine. I was not sure how to make a "hard connection
>to bypass the control relay" as you suggested.
Take the relay out of the circuit. I.e. don't use the
relay to control it, just let the alternator be ON
all the time.
> So I just operated the
>system normally. Minimal load the voltage was initially 11.8 and then
>went to 11.9 with the master on "alternator". No further change after
>about three minutes. Looks like I may not be getting alternator
input??
>As I said, normally I get 13 v.
It should certainly be higher than 12v . . . the battery
delivers energy at 12.5 and below, it gets charged at
13.5 and above. Your normal operating voltage should be
around 14.2 to 14.6 volts.
What you've described suggests that alternator is either
(1) not working due to failed rectifier/regulator or
(2) not connected to the system due to a failed relay.
>I did not charge the battery before hand.
>
>I pulled the covers off (cowling, etc). The relay appears to be
>undamaged. I don't see any signs that would indicate it was "fried".
Hmmmm . . . I've never seen the aftermath of one of these
relays going to toast. It has to have happened somewhere,
sometime. Even the big guys go up in flames sometimes. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/6041_Contactor.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/6041_Contactor_Failure.jpg
>During the even I was unable to tell exactly where the smoke was
>actually coming from--just from under the panel.
Where are your regulator and relay mounted? If they're
under the cowl I'm wondering how you got smoke from either
of these devices . . . the engine and people spaces are
supposed to be pretty well isolated from each other.
>I've ordered another relay. I'll plug it in and see what happens. Any
>other suggestions?
Yes, take the relay completely out of the circuit disconnect the
two fat wires from the relay and hook them to each other.
You can cut a little piece of metal (brass is best but a
piece of tin can will work) as shown in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Relay_Bypass_T
est.jpg
The technique here is "divide and conquer" . . . by taking
the relay completely out of the equation, you can quickly
find if it can be eliminated from the possible root causes
of failure. However, at this stage of the investigation,
if you could not see visible damage to the relay, I suspect
that it is not root cause.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
Other than the obvious $20 each, what is the difference between TNC
connectors and BNC connectors?
Why do I want to spend that much more for the connectors? Other than they
are required by Garmin on the GNS430W reason??
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What to do with old batteries? |
| From: | "tinnemaha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Listers,
I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm extremely
happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - lost confidence
in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the alternator field after 4
weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle charge and worked fine until my
new battery came in.
I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application but can't
even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do you do with
your old batteries?
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
Just off the top of my head: KX-155, KX-165, KN-63, KLX-135A, KR-87, KT-76A,
KA-39, kma-24. There are probably others.
Don
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Gill
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
> Which ones do you need?
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Curry
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
>
> Is there any place to get King manuals?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell
> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
> >
>
> >
> > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you
> can
> > still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I
> > found are listed here)
> >
> > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf
> >
> >
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide
> .pd
> > f
> > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf
> >
> >
> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefere
> n
> > ceGuide.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-
> > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf
> >
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf
> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf
> >
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > William Slaughter wrote:
> > > Try
> > >
> > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > William
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > > *Bill Bradburry
> > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM
> > > *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see
> where
> > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill B
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *http://forums.matronics.com*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > * *
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What to do with old batteries? |
Where are you located? I need a new battery for my motorcycle.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "tinnemaha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries?
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm
> extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad -
> lost confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the
> alternator field after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle
> charge and worked fine until my new battery came in.
>
> I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application
> but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do
> you do with your old batteries?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant Krueger
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What to do with old batteries? |
I put my old Odyssey batteries in riding lawnmowers and my standby generator
starting circuit and also in amateur radio field service ("picnic table
portable") until they completely give up (which is long after they've spent
2-3 years in the plane, then off to the recyclers. They have several lives
that way.
-Bill B
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 1:00 AM, tinnemaha wrote:
> tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Listers,
>
> I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm
> extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - lost
> confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the alternator field
> after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle charge and worked
> fine until my new battery came in.
>
> I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application
> but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do you
> do with your old batteries?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant Krueger
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>
> Other than the obvious $20 each, what is the difference between TNC
>connectors and BNC connectors?
>
>Why do I want to spend that much more for the connectors? Other than they
>are required by Garmin on the GNS430W reason??
One is threaded, one is bayonet lock. Both perform as advertised.
Connectors are like laundry soap. There are what appears to be dozens
of brands . . . most mfg by a handful of companies. Is one soap
markedly better than another . . . maybe but it's hard to tell
sometimes.
Take a look at:
http://www.baproducts.com/rf-conn.htm
This is but a small sample of the range from which one might
select coax connectors. Aboard aircraft, there are few reasons
to depart from RG400 coax and BNC connectors . . . but there's
no accounting for taste.
As to the $20 TNC connector, shop around a bit.
There's no reason to pay that much for a TNC connector.
See:
http://tinyurl.com/2g5t6l
Also, if you have a case where your installing a new
device having a TNC and it replaced similar device
with a BNC, you can use an adapter like:
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0578+RC
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Moving a battery |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Whenever I hear, "Moving a Battery," my ears perk up. Stein sells the Perihelion
Design Super-2-CCA that not only will remove some weight (It's lower weight
per foot than copper 4 AWG but has a much lower resistance than silver 2 AWG).
SteinAir sells it. Contact them.
I still sell the Super-4-CCA, but I will transfer it to Stein when my spool is
empty.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172173#172173
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What to do with old batteries? |
>
>Listers,
>
>I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm
>extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad -
>lost confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the
>alternator field after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle
>charge and worked fine until my new battery came in.
>
>I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application
>but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do
>you do with your old batteries?
If the battery has any usable CAPACITY left, here are
a couple of things you can do that are outside the normal
second-life options for batteries pulled from service in
aircraft:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Battery_Second_Life.jpg
The battery the light bulb on it was an instrumentation battery
that fell to less than 75% of it's new capacity. I had a
garage sale derelict headlamp bulb. Forget the number but it
only draws 2.5 amps. I glued it to the top of the battery, added
a fuse and switch and I've got a big honk'n flashlight that
will deliver useful light output for more than 8 hours on a
charge.
The other battery was new (32 a.h.) about 5 years ago.
It's got a 300 watt inverter Velcroed to the top and
a tape-handle. I use it when I need to run my instrumentation
package in an airplane where access to ship's power is
hard to get at. It's been deep cycled perhaps a dozen
times. I cap checked it last week at 8A drain (100W)
and it's still within a few percent of its new capacity.
I won't be making a flashlight out of this one soon.
If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the battery
you describe is pretty well shot. If it won't crank
your engine unless it comes off a fresh top-off charge,
it's internal resistance is too high to be useful
for anything practical.
I use the local Batteries-R-Us store to put my
used up batteries into the recycle stream. If you
don't have one handy, any store that sells car
batteries has a scrap-lead pile to which you can
contribute your dead lead.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with
>voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to
>13v.
>
>I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same 13v.
>
>I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system
>with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v.
>
>Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what
>else to check.
>
>Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what
>happens.
>
> (I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the
>testing it was 12.85v)
>
>I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I
>can figure it out I'll let you know.
Hmmmm . . . watch your votlage in flight. If it doesn't get to
something over 13.8 volts after you've been flying for awhile
you need to investigate. Try running minimum loads. Everything
OFF for awhile. Do you have a smart charger? Like:
http://tinyurl.com/2z2zta
or
http://tinyurl.com/29f2qp
You need to make sure that you have a topped-off battery
before you start a test flight. One of these critters will
do the job. Then within say 30 minutes after takeoff, your
bus voltage should be just over 14 volts. If not, your
regulator is set too low and you're not going to fully
charge your battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nauga(at)brick.net" <dhyde01(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Audio iso amp board received! |
A week or so ago I posted here to get Bob N's attention re: his audio isolation
amp
'project' board. Bob, I received the board on Saturday and all is well. I'm happy
with the outcome and your response more than makes up for the issue I originally
posted about. Thanks for the extra service!
Dave 'Nauga' Hyde
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio iso amp board received! |
>
>
>A week or so ago I posted here to get Bob N's attention re: his audio
>isolation amp
>'project' board. Bob, I received the board on Saturday and all is
>well. I'm happy
>with the outcome and your response more than makes up for the issue I
>originally
>posted about. Thanks for the extra service!
My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement
thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so
there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the
DIY package and put them back up on the website.
Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play
product. I looked through the order records and we've sold
50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just
order up 36 hour days . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
I want to thank everyone for the excellent response to my request for a copy
of the GNS430W install manual.
I now have a copy of revisions A, B, and C.
If anyone wants to upgrade their copy, please let me know.
Thanks,
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Audio iso amp board received! |
>
> My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement
> thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so
> there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the
> DIY package and put them back up on the website.
>
> Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play
> product. I looked through the order records and we've sold
> 50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just
> order up 36 hour days . . .
>
> Bob . . .
If you put out a critter which mixes several audio warnings (I need some 6
or 7) with stereo music into one double out line to connect to the Intercom,
consider me your next client
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax 582 Starter Problem? |
All,
Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van
and now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK,
no start, battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on
the Ford Van? Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't
start, then I replaced the starter. The starter fixed it.)
Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2
second then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak
solenoid click and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday
afternoon the battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since
then. (I do not know the voltage when I tried to start, but it was
definitely not 9.7 volts as the 1/2 engagement was much more
energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I have been fighting a cold
engine weak start for the past few months, assuming it was ground
issues. I had reworked the ground system and replaced the battery to no avail.
First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery?
Is there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it?
(Resistance checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody
know if a 912 starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the
Sky-Tec starter.)
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manuals |
IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight.
Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than
the original Escort 110.
raymondj wrote:
>
>
> Please add KX-145 to the list.
>
> Thanks,
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UltraLast AA Battery Tests |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> A few days ago I received some non-mainstream alkaline AA
> cells to test for capacity.
>
> These are sold under the UltraLast brand. Unfortunately,
> they do not live up to their name. Their performance is
> plotted against several other brands at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/AA_Battery_Tests_80322.jpg
>
> Seems even the Harbor Freight cells will edge out these
> puppies. Bad value? Depends.
>
> They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from
> some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks
> of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if
> you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80
> or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then
> they could be said to be a good value.
Thanks Bob,
Fry's normal price is 100 pack at $19.99. I bought them on sale for $14.99.
Dennis
> Bob . . .
>
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UltraLast AA Battery Tests |
><dgolden@golden-consulting.com>
>
> >
> > They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from
> > some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks
> > of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if
> > you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80%
> > or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then
> > they could be said to be a good value.
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>Fry's normal price is 100 pack at $19.99. I bought them on sale for $14.99.
>
>Dennis
Okay. I think you got your money's worth and then some!
The very worst cells I ever tested were some obscure brand
offered for a short time at O'Rileys's autoparts. I think
I bought a small brick of 36 cells for $6.00 and they
contained about 70% that of a hot-shot, name-brand
product. But at 17 cents each, they were still a good
value for energy contained as long as you can live with
more frequent replacement.
That reminds me, I should test some of those "heavy
duty" carbon zinc cells that still seem to grace the
shelves of some stores for pretty cheap. I'll pick some
up next time I see them.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
Hi,
We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different problems. One
outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3 combination.
We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern hemisphere
model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center). We are dual
alt / dual bus configuration.
When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection) we get up
to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40
degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling the field
breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the regulator / alt are
still have an affect.
B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm struggling! I
can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees).
I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no
difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel /
cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell).
I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall forward side of
the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero RPM and full
power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current draw
from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no movement.
Questions:
a) Have others got this / solved this?
b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
Thanks,
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
Checked by AVG.
15:03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? |
>
>All,
> Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van and
> now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK, no start,
> battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on the Ford Van?
> Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't start, then I replaced
> the starter. The starter fixed it.)
> Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2 second
> then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak solenoid click
> and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday afternoon the
> battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since then. (I do not know
> the voltage when I tried to start, but it was definitely not 9.7 volts as
> the 1/2 engagement was much more energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I
> have been fighting a cold engine weak start for the past few months,
> assuming it was ground issues. I had reworked the ground system and
> replaced the battery to no avail.
> First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery? Is
> there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it? (Resistance
> checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody know if a 912
> starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the Sky-Tec starter.)
There's not really enough data to tell the whole
story. Starters can fail to work for a host of reasons
that include failed battery, loose connections, failed
starter contactor, worn brushes in starter and even
shorted windings in starter.
Killer starters are pretty rare. Modern insulations and
assembly techniques make for pretty robust motors even
if they're at the bottom of the price structure for
similar products.
Try these tests: Pull your battery lead terminals
off, brighten up with wire brush, grease with Vaseline
and reassemble with max recommended torque on fittings.
Make sure your battery is topped off. If you don't
own a Battery Tender or similar device . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Schumacher_1562.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpeg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Minder.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Plus.jpg
. . . now would be a good time to acquire one. Walmart used to
handle the Schumacher 1562 for about $20. An excellent buy.
If you have access to a battery load tester . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg
http://www.remybattery.com/images/products/Autometer_Tester_SB-3_LG.jpg
Load your topped off battery until its terminal voltage
falls to 9 volts and hold that voltage for 15 seconds.
At the end of 15 seconds, the ammeter should be showing
over 300 amps.
Perhaps a service station would test your battery. A Batteries-
R-Us store certainly would.
If you've eliminated the battery as a possible root cause,
then it's time to dig through the rest of the system. Check
the terminal voltage at the starter while cranking. 8V is
about the minimum and if your battery is in good shape and
close to the engine, 9+ volts would not be unexpected.
If lower, check voltage drop across starter and battery
contactors while cranking. If you haven't made up 20'
clip leads for your voltmeter, now would be a good time
to do it. I have a couple of long lead-sets for my multimeters
that allow me to clip onto remote devices and take readings
while sitting in the pilots seat.
If all the battery, wiring, connections and contactors
are good, then it's time to scrutinize the starter more
closely. An inductive ammeter like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Snap-On_Inductive_Ammeters.jpg
is really handy for getting a quick look-see at
current flowing in a wire without disconnecting
it. The ammeters shown are sold by Snap-On in a set
of two for about $60. On goes to 600A for starters,
the other to 100A for alternators.
If your starter is 'killing' batteries, it's cranking
draw will be really high for your size engine. Normally,
I wouldn't expect to see more than 150 amps.
In all likelihood, your battery is simply gone south
with loose connections or bad switching running in
second place. The foregoing suggests that with some
measurements, it's pretty easy to tell what needs to
be done before you get out the wrenches or go into
the swaptronics mode of troubleshooting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Audio iso amp board received! |
>
>
>
> >
> > My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement
> > thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so
> > there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the
> > DIY package and put them back up on the website.
> >
> > Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play
> > product. I looked through the order records and we've sold
> > 50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just
> > order up 36 hour days . . .
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
>If you put out a critter which mixes several audio warnings (I need some 6
>or 7) with stereo music into one double out line to connect to the Intercom,
>consider me your next client
I've got some design notes and did a quick guess at
a footprint for a device such as you've described. It
would have multi-turn potentiometers right on the board
for each input too. It would be about a 2 x 3" fooprint
and a 25-pin d-sub connector for input/output connections.
I'll keep praying over it but I've got 4-5 new products
much closer to completion that need to get up on the website
first.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | KX-145 performance |
Kelly,
I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had the
poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune done and
try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for sharing your
experience.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight.
> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than
> the original Escort 110.
>
> raymondj wrote:
>>
>>
>> Please add KX-145 to the list.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>
>
> --
> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KX-145 performance |
I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with
them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying.
However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a fabric
plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install and
antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been
installed by same shop making same mistakes.
I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really old
radio, probably at least 20 years.
raymondj wrote:
>
>
> Kelly,
>
> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had
> the poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune
> done and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for
> sharing your experience.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> "Hope for the best,
> but prepare for the worst."
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>
>
>>
>>
>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight.
>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse
>> than the original Escort 110.
>>
>> raymondj wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Please add KX-145 to the list.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Raymond Julian
>>> Kettle River, MN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
Hello Bill,
Please forward the latest 430W revision...thanks.
Bill
RV-7 N151WP
Lee's Summit, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Bradburry
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
I want to thank everyone for the excellent response to my request for a
copy
of the GNS430W install manual.
I now have a copy of revisions A, B, and C.
If anyone wants to upgrade their copy, please let me know.
Thanks,
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KX-145 performance |
Well...., the price was right. I'll be day VFR with a portable backup, if I
use it at all.
Thanks for the info.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance
>
>
> I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with
> them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying.
> However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a fabric
> plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install and
> antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been
> installed by same shop making same mistakes.
> I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really old
> radio, probably at least 20 years.
>
> raymondj wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kelly,
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had the
>> poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune done
>> and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for sharing
>> your experience.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>>
>> "Hope for the best,
>> but prepare for the worst."
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight.
>>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than
>>> the original Escort 110.
>>>
>>> raymondj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please add KX-145 to the list.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Raymond Julian
>>>> Kettle River, MN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bulsr(at)bellsouth.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | KX-145 performance |
The KX 145 is at least 30 years old and the install manual is available
only through ATP (Aircraft Technical Publications, phone 415-330-9500).
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
raymondj
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance
Well...., the price was right. I'll be day VFR with a portable backup,
if I
use it at all.
Thanks for the info.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance
>
>
> I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with
> them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying.
> However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a
fabric
> plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install
and
> antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been
> installed by same shop making same mistakes.
> I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really
old
> radio, probably at least 20 years.
>
> raymondj wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kelly,
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had
the
>> poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune
done
>> and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for
sharing
>> your experience.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>>
>> "Hope for the best,
>> but prepare for the worst."
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight.
>>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse
than
>>> the original Escort 110.
>>>
>>> raymondj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please add KX-145 to the list.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Raymond Julian
>>>> Kettle River, MN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <frank.phyllis(at)mindspring.com> |
Bob
Is there a way to adjust the DUCATI voltage regulator?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke
>
>I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with
>voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to
>13v.
>
>I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same
13v.
>
>I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system
>with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v.
>
>Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what
>else to check.
>
>Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what
>happens.
>
> (I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the
>testing it was 12.85v)
>
>I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I
>can figure it out I'll let you know.
Hmmmm . . . watch your votlage in flight. If it doesn't get to
something over 13.8 volts after you've been flying for awhile
you need to investigate. Try running minimum loads. Everything
OFF for awhile. Do you have a smart charger? Like:
http://tinyurl.com/2z2zta
or
http://tinyurl.com/29f2qp
You need to make sure that you have a topped-off battery
before you start a test flight. One of these critters will
do the job. Then within say 30 minutes after takeoff, your
bus voltage should be just over 14 volts. If not, your
regulator is set too low and you're not going to fully
charge your battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | DME/Transponder Suppression |
When a KT-76A transponder and a KN-63 DME are installed in an aircraft, and
the two units are connected via suppression circuitry built into both units,
is it necessary to comply with the requirement for there to be 6-foot
spacing between the two antennae? I can't find an exception to this rule in
the install manual for either unit, yet I understand the suppression circuit
is designed to keep each unit from receiving the other unit's transmission.
So, why should it matter how close the antennae are to eachother?
Thanks,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
Bob or any other electrical wizard...
Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch
to include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'.
wired it like this:
#3 bat bus & light post #4 light
post
#2 avionics bus #5 grnd
#1 main bus & light post #6 light
post
When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
When I toggle 'off' - everything
off
When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off
When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch)
'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
'off' -
everything off
'main bus' instruments on - no light
What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights
from B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery.
Thanks in advance.
Mike H 9A/8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? |
At 03:00 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>In all likelihood, your battery is simply gone south
> with loose connections or bad switching running in
> second place. The foregoing suggests that with some
> measurements, it's pretty easy to tell what needs to
> be done before you get out the wrenches or go into
> the swaptronics mode of troubleshooting.
Bob,
You were right, the battery had suddenly and inexplicably
gone south. When jumped with an enormous RV battery the 582 still had
a difficult time starting, but it started. The dead battery wouldn't
accept a charge, (measured by the load meter,) so I guess it was well
and truly dead. I tried jumping from various locations, eliminating
various wires, and the engine started slowly every time. I was unable
to eliminate one wire, though because of access, so that will have to
wait until I can pull the engine. I'll then be able to check the
starter too. I'll check cranking voltage against your recommended
numbers first, though.
As an aside, how do the "low amp" testers work? (E.g.
DHC BT002 Battery Tester, Auto Meter BVA-350 Battery Tester)
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D Wysong" <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
Hello all,
I'm fabricating a new harness for my voltage regulator (Zeftronics
regulator for a Cessna) and am searching for a supplier of uninsulated
0.25" female fast-on terminals that have a small tab sticking out of
the 'back' that will lock them inside the plastic backshell. I've
checked the Mouser, Newark, B&C, Waytek, and Allied catalogs without
luck. However, perhaps I'm not using the correct keyword to find
these oddball terminals in their search engines. Perhaps an autoparts
store would carry them (the original Cessna regulator was a Ford part,
I believe)?
Thanks for any suggestions you folks can provide.
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
>
>
>Hi,
>
>We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different problems. One
>outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3 combination.
>We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern hemisphere
>model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center). We are dual
>alt / dual bus configuration.
>
>When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection) we get up
>to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40
>degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling the field
>breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the regulator / alt are
>still have an affect.
>
>B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm struggling! I
>can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees).
>
>I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no
>difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel /
>cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell).
>
>I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall forward side of
>the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero RPM and full
>power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current draw
>from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no movement.
>
>Questions:
> a) Have others got this / solved this?
> b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl
The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
(as do most alternators) has a considerable
leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
This isn't a problem for most installations
where the alternator mounts on the front of
the engine.
Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
are much closer to the instrument panel and
more likely to be an issue with a panel
mounted compass.
In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
glareshield to a location on higher on the
windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
material would have to be magnetic and cover
the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
wiring egress and labor to implement it.
The easiest fix is to increase distance between
the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
distance really helps.
Alternatively, an electronic compass with
a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
way to achieve the highest performance
in a magnetic direction indicator. The
case can be made that since you have
3 sources of DC power, reliability of
the electronic compass is assured. I would
also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
in the flight bag too.
I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
ever needing one these days is about nil.
Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
were fortunate not to be plagued by the
FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
maybe they didn't really go away . . .
they just morphed into radio antennas.
Let's be really clear about this condition.
This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
shaft that runs through the device parallel
to the magnetic lines of force generated in
the field windings. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Internal_Fan2.gif
This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
alternator will present a strong external
magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
the 21st century.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DME/Transponder Suppression |
>
>When a KT-76A transponder and a KN-63 DME are installed in an aircraft, and
>the two units are connected via suppression circuitry built into both units,
>is it necessary to comply with the requirement for there to be 6-foot
>spacing between the two antennae? I can't find an exception to this rule in
>the install manual for either unit, yet I understand the suppression circuit
>is designed to keep each unit from receiving the other unit's transmission.
>So, why should it matter how close the antennae are to eachother?
Transponders and DME use frequencies very close to each other
and there's risk of receiver overloading in one device due to
the very strong signal from the other device. This is mostly
mitigated electronically via the suppression system but the
6' rule gave the engineers and marketing types a warmer set
of fuzzies. Give it a try doing the best you can. It will
probably be fine.
Have you considered a GPS receiver in lieu of DME? DME works
with a hand full of ground stations while GPS will give you
distance to any point on the surface of the earth. DME
is one of those electronic buggy whips that needs to be
moved to the museum.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? |
>At 03:00 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>>In all likelihood, your battery is simply gone south
>> with loose connections or bad switching running in
>> second place. The foregoing suggests that with some
>> measurements, it's pretty easy to tell what needs to
>> be done before you get out the wrenches or go into
>> the swaptronics mode of troubleshooting.
>
>Bob,
> You were right, the battery had suddenly and inexplicably gone
> south. When jumped with an enormous RV battery the 582 still had a
> difficult time starting, but it started. The dead battery wouldn't accept
> a charge, (measured by the load meter,) so I guess it was well and truly
> dead. I tried jumping from various locations, eliminating various wires,
> and the engine started slowly every time. I was unable to eliminate one
> wire, though because of access, so that will have to wait until I can
> pull the engine. I'll then be able to check the starter too. I'll check
> cranking voltage against your recommended numbers first, though.
> As an aside, how do the "low amp" testers work? (E.g.
>
>DHC BT002 Battery Tester, Auto Meter BVA-350 Battery Tester)
>
I've seen these kinds of things in the repair shops.
These are obviously NOT load testers in the usual sense.
There's no way these little fellers can accept that much
energy and dump the heat through those little leads and
small hand-held cases.
My guess is that they're internal impedance testers
of some variety. Hit the battery with 100A for a few
milliseconds, get a quick reading, compute internal
resistance by dividing delta-E by delta-I. Obviously,
they have many other features too. It would be
interesting to get my hands on one and watch it do
the full bag of tricks.
I did a design for a client some years ago for a
cranking system tester. It was nothing more than a
processor driven data acquisition system that took
6 readings of voltage around the system referenced to
battery(-) terminal. It filtered the short term
perturbations and offered a digital display of
minimums and averages for the 6 measurement points.
With one setup and one short cranking interval, it
would map the system's voltage drops. I don't know if
that ever went to production. Haven't heard from them
in years. It was the first time I was able to take
advantage of the agility offered by microelectronics
to make measurements that even the most skilled
observer with a multimeter would not be able to duplicate.
That design had a lot of components that are now
contained in a single micro-controller. It would be
VERY easy to do the same product today with a bill of
materials of less than $30! It could even offer 8 to
12 channels of monitoring capability.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
>
>Hello all,
>
>I'm fabricating a new harness for my voltage regulator (Zeftronics
>regulator for a Cessna) and am searching for a supplier of uninsulated
>0.25" female fast-on terminals that have a small tab sticking out of
>the 'back' that will lock them inside the plastic backshell. I've
>checked the Mouser, Newark, B&C, Waytek, and Allied catalogs without
>luck. However, perhaps I'm not using the correct keyword to find
>these oddball terminals in their search engines. Perhaps an autoparts
>store would carry them (the original Cessna regulator was a Ford part,
>I believe)?
>
>Thanks for any suggestions you folks can provide.
I've never found these as loose fabrication or repair
parts . . . but that doesn't mean somebody doesn't have
them. Most builders use individual fast-on terminals
and ditch the housing. You can buy the housing with
terminals installed and short pig-tails at some care
parts stores. I think I've seen them in the red "Help"
line of blister-packed, peg-board products.
I can get you a part number for a reel of 5,000! B&C
used to have some that were used with the housing that
fits the connector on the back of an alternator. These
were bare-brass (un-plated) parts. They might work with
your regulator tabs connector housing. I'd go with the
loose PIDG fast-on terminals and ditch the housing.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodney Dunham <rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
"uninsulated 0.25" female fast-on terminals that have a small tab sticking
out of the 'back' that will lock them inside the plastic backshell"
I have bought just such a part for the voltage regulator connector on my pl
ane from NAPA aircraft and auto parts store.
Rodney in Tennessee
_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr
esh_realtime_042008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
If you really want them I believe I have purchased these, tin plated, in
small quantity, cut from a reel, from digi-key however they are open
barrel crimps (cheap automotive) onto the wire. There were at least two
sizes listed depending on wire gauge. You want the small for tefzel or
just clip the fingers. Like Bob, I prefer to shove individual PIDG
connectors into the housing or ditch the housing. I will use the open
barrel crimps on small awg 22 and smaller if I must, but I don't
consider them suitable for 18 awg or larger unless soldered and that has
other issues associated.
Ken
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm fabricating a new harness for my voltage regulator (Zeftronics
>> regulator for a Cessna) and am searching for a supplier of uninsulated
>> 0.25" female fast-on terminals that have a small tab sticking out of
>> the 'back' that will lock them inside the plastic backshell. I've
>> checked the Mouser, Newark, B&C, Waytek, and Allied catalogs without
>> luck. However, perhaps I'm not using the correct keyword to find
>> these oddball terminals in their search engines. Perhaps an autoparts
>> store would carry them (the original Cessna regulator was a Ford part,
>> I believe)?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions you folks can provide.
>
> I've never found these as loose fabrication or repair
> parts . . . but that doesn't mean somebody doesn't have
> them. Most builders use individual fast-on terminals
> and ditch the housing. You can buy the housing with
> terminals installed and short pig-tails at some care
> parts stores. I think I've seen them in the red "Help"
> line of blister-packed, peg-board products.
>
> I can get you a part number for a reel of 5,000! B&C
> used to have some that were used with the housing that
> fits the connector on the back of an alternator. These
> were bare-brass (un-plated) parts. They might work with
> your regulator tabs connector housing. I'd go with the
> loose PIDG fast-on terminals and ditch the housing.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | WX-500 Install Manual |
Would anyone happen to know where I could obtain a WX-500 Install Manual?
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
Hi Bob,
Removing the 'whiskey compass' could / will result in my aircraft being
grounded. I have been round the loop with the NZ CAA and the 'need' for a
traditional compass, I already have a GRT EFIS with magnetometer, IFR GPS
and still not enough. At the moment it is going to be an up cliff paperwork
struggle.
Removing the SD-20 is a 'better' option from their perspective, but with a
full FADEC I'm not comfortable with just dual battery, single alternator -
and having got to this point where the engine is running great (or too well)
removing the SD-20 isn't an option either. Distance changing is going to be
in the order of 1" difference, unless I mounted it in the baggage
compartment. What options can be used to reduce the magnetic impact - is it
a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We are only
taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some interference
coming out, but what is 'too much'?
WRT:
> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> the field windings.
My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about this
anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm fixed
without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and one of the
few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
Thanks,
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: 26 March 2008 00:12
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>
>
> III"
>
>
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different
> problems. One
> >outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3
> combination.
> >We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern
> hemisphere
> >model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center).
> We are dual
> >alt / dual bus configuration.
> >
> >When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection)
> we get up
> >to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40
> >degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling the field
> >breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the
> regulator / alt are
> >still have an affect.
> >
> >B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm
> struggling! I
> >can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees).
> >
> >I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no
> >difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel /
> >cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell).
> >
> >I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall
> forward side of
> >the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero
> RPM and full
> >power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current draw
> >from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no movement.
> >
> >Questions:
> > a) Have others got this / solved this?
> > b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Carl
>
>
> The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
> Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
> (as do most alternators) has a considerable
> leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
> This isn't a problem for most installations
> where the alternator mounts on the front of
> the engine.
>
> Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
> are much closer to the instrument panel and
> more likely to be an issue with a panel
> mounted compass.
>
> In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
> glareshield to a location on higher on the
> windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
> the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
> material would have to be magnetic and cover
> the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
> alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
> wiring egress and labor to implement it.
>
> The easiest fix is to increase distance between
> the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
> 'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
> distance really helps.
>
> Alternatively, an electronic compass with
> a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
> way to achieve the highest performance
> in a magnetic direction indicator. The
> case can be made that since you have
> 3 sources of DC power, reliability of
> the electronic compass is assured. I would
> also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
> in the flight bag too.
>
> I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
> whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
> ever needing one these days is about nil.
> Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
> were fortunate not to be plagued by the
> FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
> when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
> maybe they didn't really go away . . .
> they just morphed into radio antennas.
>
> Let's be really clear about this condition.
> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> the field windings. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Inte
> rnal_Fan2.gif
>
> This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
> alternator will present a strong external
> magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
> that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
> for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
> REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
> about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
> the 21st century.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 25/03/2008 10:26
>
Checked by AVG.
10:26
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan" <bhcishere(at)ca.rr.com> |
I have a 12V 60A Chrysler alternator that came with the engine I am
rebuilding. Unfortunately I do not have the brackets for this
alternator. Does anyone know where to get brackets for a reasonable
price (I don't even know what part number), or would I be better off
just going with a Plane Power kit?
Thanks
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
Hi Scott:
Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If
is 20
ma (from datasheet)
For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm
standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately.
If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 -
5*1.7)/0.020
285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value).
Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you
may
want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other
displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer
for
this.
Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to
using
them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright
sunlight.
I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was
an
issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such
as
locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that
will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their
intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!.
Good luck.
Vern Little.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R.
Shook
Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light
Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from
Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors
I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Are _you_ concerned about the function of the whiskey compass? If not
(given the other equipment on board), do your best to come up with a
calibration card for it and call it good.
Side question.. I got the impression that your compass reads accurately
when the field is turned off on the SD-20. Can the SD-20 be used only
when your main alternator is off line? If so, the only time your compass
will have a problem is if the main alternator fails. I could live with
that..
Also, what's the wire routing of the output and field of the SD-20 (with
respect to the compass? Is it possible that the wire routing is
contributing to the B-field generated by the SD-20? Is the ground
following a different route than the field and output wires? I'm pretty
sure Bob's assessment of the cause of your headache was correct, but I
wonder if there might be additional factors...
In a different direction, you can get a remote compass from Century
Instruments:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/dispads/0000769074.pdf
Kinda spendy at $500 for the kit.. And, I don't know if it actually
satisfies the requirement.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Removing the 'whiskey compass' could / will result in my aircraft being
> grounded. I have been round the loop with the NZ CAA and the 'need' for a
> traditional compass, I already have a GRT EFIS with magnetometer, IFR GPS
> and still not enough. At the moment it is going to be an up cliff
> paperwork
> struggle.
>
> Removing the SD-20 is a 'better' option from their perspective, but with a
> full FADEC I'm not comfortable with just dual battery, single alternator -
> and having got to this point where the engine is running great (or too
> well)
> removing the SD-20 isn't an option either. Distance changing is going to
> be
> in the order of 1" difference, unless I mounted it in the baggage
> compartment. What options can be used to reduce the magnetic impact - is
> it
> a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We are only
> taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some interference
> coming out, but what is 'too much'?
>
> WRT:
>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
>> the field windings.
>
> My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about this
> anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
> reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm fixed
> without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and one of
> the
> few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
>
> How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
> reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
> --
> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: 26 March 2008 00:12
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>>
>>
>> III"
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different
>> problems. One
>> >outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3
>> combination.
>> >We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern
>> hemisphere
>> >model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center).
>> We are dual
>> >alt / dual bus configuration.
>> >
>> >When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection)
>> we get up
>> >to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40
>> >degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling the field
>> >breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the
>> regulator / alt are
>> >still have an affect.
>> >
>> >B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm
>> struggling! I
>> >can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees).
>> >
>> >I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no
>> >difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel /
>> >cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell).
>> >
>> >I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall
>> forward side of
>> >the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero
>> RPM and full
>> >power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current
>> draw
>> >from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no movement.
>> >
>> >Questions:
>> > a) Have others got this / solved this?
>> > b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Carl
>>
>>
>> The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
>> Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
>> (as do most alternators) has a considerable
>> leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
>> This isn't a problem for most installations
>> where the alternator mounts on the front of
>> the engine.
>>
>> Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
>> are much closer to the instrument panel and
>> more likely to be an issue with a panel
>> mounted compass.
>>
>> In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
>> glareshield to a location on higher on the
>> windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
>> the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
>> material would have to be magnetic and cover
>> the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
>> alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
>> wiring egress and labor to implement it.
>>
>> The easiest fix is to increase distance between
>> the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
>> 'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
>> distance really helps.
>>
>> Alternatively, an electronic compass with
>> a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
>> way to achieve the highest performance
>> in a magnetic direction indicator. The
>> case can be made that since you have
>> 3 sources of DC power, reliability of
>> the electronic compass is assured. I would
>> also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
>> in the flight bag too.
>>
>> I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
>> whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
>> ever needing one these days is about nil.
>> Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
>> were fortunate not to be plagued by the
>> FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
>> when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
>> maybe they didn't really go away . . .
>> they just morphed into radio antennas.
>>
>> Let's be really clear about this condition.
>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
>> the field windings. See:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Inte
>> rnal_Fan2.gif
>>
>> This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
>> alternator will present a strong external
>> magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
>> that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
>> for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
>> REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
>> about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
>> the 21st century.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 25/03/2008 10:26
>>
> Checked by AVG.
> 10:26
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | KX-155 Audio Out |
| From: | "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net> |
I have a KX-155 and a Sigtronics Sport 200 intercom. I'm trying to figure out
the proper wiring between units. The KX-155 has an 'audio hi' and 'audio lo'
for both the comm and nav. I'm confused what is meant with the 'hi' and 'lo'.
Are the 'audio hi' connections supposed to go to the common blue intercom wire,
common with the headset jacks, while the 'audio lo' connections go to ground?
If that's the case, why must the 'audio lo' connections be shielded if it's
going to ground anyway?
Thanks for your help!
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172651#172651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
Scott,
You need to drop 12.3V (14-1.7) while limiting the current to
~20ma R=E/I (12.3/.02 = 615 Ohms). The power dissipated will be P=I*E
(.02*12.3=.246 watts). A 620 ohm 1/2W resistor would be fine for 1 LED. If
you connect several LED's in series subtract the total voltage drop and do
the same calculation. 14-3.4 for 2 and so on. LED's will work over a fairly
broad range of current depending on the type and brightness desired so don't
worry too much about exact resistor values. You can work backwards to find
the current I=E/R so if you use 560 ohms (12.3/560=.022) or 22ma. Check your
Digikey catalog for standard resistor values.
Good luck
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
D,
I had the same issue and bought a roll of AMP tin plated for 18-22
AWG wire.
DigiKey P/N A27933CT-ND
AMP P/N 60295-2
If these will help send me your address off list and I will mail you a few.
I bought 100 and needed 3 :( I just couldn't think of butt splices on the
Alternator wires.
Hooverra at verizon dot net
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D Wysong
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?
Hello all,
I'm fabricating a new harness for my voltage regulator (Zeftronics
regulator for a Cessna) and am searching for a supplier of uninsulated
0.25" female fast-on terminals that have a small tab sticking out of
the 'back' that will lock them inside the plastic backshell. I've
checked the Mouser, Newark, B&C, Waytek, and Allied catalogs without
luck. However, perhaps I'm not using the correct keyword to find
these oddball terminals in their search engines. Perhaps an autoparts
store would carry them (the original Cessna regulator was a Ford part,
I believe)?
Thanks for any suggestions you folks can provide.
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the ideas, I'm really not that concerned about the whiskey
compass functionality - if I've lost all my other mag direction indicators -
the engine has stopped, so I don't really care about direction ;-) However
the CAA so far is and the calibration card per regs has to be within 10
degrees :-(.
SD-20 off / disconnected - yes I think the compass reads right - but we are
dual bus (two independent active buses), not endurance / essential bus - so
both alts need to be running / working.
Wire routing - the B lead and field goes aft from the SD-20 to the firewall,
left across the top of the firewall, aft again through the firewall and back
to a mid location for the regulator which is on a tray between the forward
panel ribs (RV 7A Tipup).
Remote compass - it could yet be the option - but I don't like to even think
about the routing of the cables through the tunnel / spar / wing.....
Regards,
Carl
--
Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
> Prather
> Sent: 26 March 2008 11:59
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>
>
>
>
> Are _you_ concerned about the function of the whiskey compass? If not
> (given the other equipment on board), do your best to come up with a
> calibration card for it and call it good.
>
> Side question.. I got the impression that your compass reads accurately
> when the field is turned off on the SD-20. Can the SD-20 be used only
> when your main alternator is off line? If so, the only time your compass
> will have a problem is if the main alternator fails. I could live with
> that..
>
> Also, what's the wire routing of the output and field of the SD-20 (with
> respect to the compass? Is it possible that the wire routing is
> contributing to the B-field generated by the SD-20? Is the ground
> following a different route than the field and output wires? I'm pretty
> sure Bob's assessment of the cause of your headache was correct, but I
> wonder if there might be additional factors...
>
> In a different direction, you can get a remote compass from Century
> Instruments:
>
> http://www.trade-a-plane.com/dispads/0000769074.pdf
>
> Kinda spendy at $500 for the kit.. And, I don't know if it actually
> satisfies the requirement.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Removing the 'whiskey compass' could / will result in my aircraft being
> > grounded. I have been round the loop with the NZ CAA and the
> 'need' for a
> > traditional compass, I already have a GRT EFIS with
> magnetometer, IFR GPS
> > and still not enough. At the moment it is going to be an up cliff
> > paperwork
> > struggle.
> >
> > Removing the SD-20 is a 'better' option from their perspective,
> but with a
> > full FADEC I'm not comfortable with just dual battery, single
> alternator -
> > and having got to this point where the engine is running great (or too
> > well)
> > removing the SD-20 isn't an option either. Distance changing
> is going to
> > be
> > in the order of 1" difference, unless I mounted it in the baggage
> > compartment. What options can be used to reduce the magnetic
> impact - is
> > it
> > a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We are only
> > taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some interference
> > coming out, but what is 'too much'?
> >
> > WRT:
> >> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> >> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> >> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> >> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> >> the field windings.
> >
> > My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about this
> > anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
> > reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm fixed
> > without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and one of
> > the
> > few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
> >
> > How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
> > reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Carl
> > --
> > Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
> > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >> Sent: 26 March 2008 00:12
> >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
> >>
> >>
> >> III"
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different
> >> problems. One
> >> >outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3
> >> combination.
> >> >We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern
> >> hemisphere
> >> >model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center).
> >> We are dual
> >> >alt / dual bus configuration.
> >> >
> >> >When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection)
> >> we get up
> >> >to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40
> >> >degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling
> the field
> >> >breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the
> >> regulator / alt are
> >> >still have an affect.
> >> >
> >> >B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm
> >> struggling! I
> >> >can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees).
> >> >
> >> >I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no
> >> >difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel /
> >> >cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell).
> >> >
> >> >I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall
> >> forward side of
> >> >the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero
> >> RPM and full
> >> >power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current
> >> draw
> >> >from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no
> movement.
> >> >
> >> >Questions:
> >> > a) Have others got this / solved this?
> >> > b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >
> >> >Carl
> >>
> >>
> >> The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
> >> Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
> >> (as do most alternators) has a considerable
> >> leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
> >> This isn't a problem for most installations
> >> where the alternator mounts on the front of
> >> the engine.
> >>
> >> Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
> >> are much closer to the instrument panel and
> >> more likely to be an issue with a panel
> >> mounted compass.
> >>
> >> In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
> >> glareshield to a location on higher on the
> >> windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
> >> the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
> >> material would have to be magnetic and cover
> >> the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
> >> alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
> >> wiring egress and labor to implement it.
> >>
> >> The easiest fix is to increase distance between
> >> the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
> >> 'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
> >> distance really helps.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, an electronic compass with
> >> a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
> >> way to achieve the highest performance
> >> in a magnetic direction indicator. The
> >> case can be made that since you have
> >> 3 sources of DC power, reliability of
> >> the electronic compass is assured. I would
> >> also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
> >> in the flight bag too.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
> >> whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
> >> ever needing one these days is about nil.
> >> Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
> >> were fortunate not to be plagued by the
> >> FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
> >> when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
> >> maybe they didn't really go away . . .
> >> they just morphed into radio antennas.
> >>
> >> Let's be really clear about this condition.
> >> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> >> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> >> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> >> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> >> the field windings. See:
> >>
> >> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Inte
> >> rnal_Fan2.gif
> >>
> >> This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
> >> alternator will present a strong external
> >> magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
> >> that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
> >> for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
> >> REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
> >> about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
> >> the 21st century.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Checked by AVG.
> >> 25/03/2008 10:26
> >>
> > Checked by AVG.
> > 10:26
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 25/03/2008 10:26
>
Checked by AVG.
10:26
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
That is the formula I was looking for. Thank you.
The light bars themselves, have 5 LED's so those will go in a series. My
last trick will be mounting them and the wiring of said LED's. I am hoping
a blank project circuit board will do what I want. The trick with the
circuit board will be the spacing requirements (space between light bars).
Once that is figured, I can order the face (reverse engraved acrylic).
I am also working on a "push-to test" option.
As far as the intensity, since these will be behind a reverse engraved
acrylic (black behind clear) only the letters themselves will light up.
Once I get the mock up completed, the day/night intensity testing will be
performed.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon
Little
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 15:46
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Hi Scott:
Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If is 20
ma (from datasheet)
For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm
standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately.
If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 - 5*1.7)/0.020
285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value).
Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you may
want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other
displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer for
this.
Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to using
them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright sunlight.
I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was an
issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such as
locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that
will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their
intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!.
Good luck.
Vern Little.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
There are type certificated aircraft where the whiskey compass is
only accurate in a very particular electrical system configuration.
For example, on the Cessna C550 (Citation II business jet), the
whiskey compass is only useable if both generators are OFF. This is
quite acceptable to the FAA, Transport Canada, and I presume the NZ CAA.
Given that you have an EFIS with a remote flux valve that acts as
your primary source of magnetic heading, you don't need the whiskey
compass to read accurately most of the time. I wonder if it might be
acceptable to put a placard by the whiskey compass that said "SD-20
Alternator must be OFF to use compass". Then make a compass
correction card that is only valid if the SD-20 is OFF.
Kevin Horton
On 25 Mar 2008, at 19:51, Carl Morgan wrote:
> vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Thanks for the ideas, I'm really not that concerned about the whiskey
> compass functionality - if I've lost all my other mag direction
> indicators -
> the engine has stopped, so I don't really care about direction ;-)
> However
> the CAA so far is and the calibration card per regs has to be
> within 10
> degrees :-(.
>
> SD-20 off / disconnected - yes I think the compass reads right -
> but we are
> dual bus (two independent active buses), not endurance / essential
> bus - so
> both alts need to be running / working.
>
> Wire routing - the B lead and field goes aft from the SD-20 to the
> firewall,
> left across the top of the firewall, aft again through the firewall
> and back
> to a mid location for the regulator which is on a tray between the
> forward
> panel ribs (RV 7A Tipup).
>
> Remote compass - it could yet be the option - but I don't like to
> even think
> about the routing of the cables through the tunnel / spar / wing.....
>
> Regards,
>
> Carl
> --
> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> Matt
>> Prather
>> Sent: 26 March 2008 11:59
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Are _you_ concerned about the function of the whiskey compass? If
>> not
>> (given the other equipment on board), do your best to come up with a
>> calibration card for it and call it good.
>>
>> Side question.. I got the impression that your compass reads
>> accurately
>> when the field is turned off on the SD-20. Can the SD-20 be used
>> only
>> when your main alternator is off line? If so, the only time your
>> compass
>> will have a problem is if the main alternator fails. I could live
>> with
>> that..
>>
>> Also, what's the wire routing of the output and field of the SD-20
>> (with
>> respect to the compass? Is it possible that the wire routing is
>> contributing to the B-field generated by the SD-20? Is the ground
>> following a different route than the field and output wires? I'm
>> pretty
>> sure Bob's assessment of the cause of your headache was correct,
>> but I
>> wonder if there might be additional factors...
>>
>> In a different direction, you can get a remote compass from Century
>> Instruments:
>>
>> http://www.trade-a-plane.com/dispads/0000769074.pdf
>>
>> Kinda spendy at $500 for the kit.. And, I don't know if it actually
>> satisfies the requirement.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Matt-
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> Removing the 'whiskey compass' could / will result in my aircraft
>>> being
>>> grounded. I have been round the loop with the NZ CAA and the
>> 'need' for a
>>> traditional compass, I already have a GRT EFIS with
>> magnetometer, IFR GPS
>>> and still not enough. At the moment it is going to be an up cliff
>>> paperwork
>>> struggle.
>>>
>>> Removing the SD-20 is a 'better' option from their perspective,
>> but with a
>>> full FADEC I'm not comfortable with just dual battery, single
>> alternator -
>>> and having got to this point where the engine is running great
>>> (or too
>>> well)
>>> removing the SD-20 isn't an option either. Distance changing
>> is going to
>>> be
>>> in the order of 1" difference, unless I mounted it in the baggage
>>> compartment. What options can be used to reduce the magnetic
>> impact - is
>>> it
>>> a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We
>>> are only
>>> taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some
>>> interference
>>> coming out, but what is 'too much'?
>>>
>>> WRT:
>>>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
>>>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
>>>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
>>>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
>>>> the field windings.
>>>
>>> My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about
>>> this
>>> anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
>>> reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm
>>> fixed
>>> without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and
>>> one of
>>> the
>>> few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
>>>
>>> How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
>>> reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> --
>>> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
>>> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>>>> Sent: 26 March 2008 00:12
>>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> III"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different
>>>> problems. One
>>>>> outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3
>>>> combination.
>>>>> We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern
>>>> hemisphere
>>>>> model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center).
>>>> We are dual
>>>>> alt / dual bus configuration.
>>>>>
>>>>> When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection)
>>>> we get up
>>>>> to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount
>>>>> (from 20-40
>>>>> degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling
>> the field
>>>>> breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the
>>>> regulator / alt are
>>>>> still have an affect.
>>>>>
>>>>> B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm
>>>> struggling! I
>>>>> can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15
>>>>> degrees).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator
>>>>> - no
>>>>> difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the
>>>>> panel /
>>>>> cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to
>>>>> tell).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall
>>>> forward side of
>>>>> the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero
>>>> RPM and full
>>>>> power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on
>>>>> current
>>>> draw
>>>>> from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no
>> movement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Questions:
>>>>> a) Have others got this / solved this?
>>>>> b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
>>>> Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
>>>> (as do most alternators) has a considerable
>>>> leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
>>>> This isn't a problem for most installations
>>>> where the alternator mounts on the front of
>>>> the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
>>>> are much closer to the instrument panel and
>>>> more likely to be an issue with a panel
>>>> mounted compass.
>>>>
>>>> In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
>>>> glareshield to a location on higher on the
>>>> windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
>>>> the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
>>>> material would have to be magnetic and cover
>>>> the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
>>>> alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
>>>> wiring egress and labor to implement it.
>>>>
>>>> The easiest fix is to increase distance between
>>>> the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
>>>> 'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
>>>> distance really helps.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, an electronic compass with
>>>> a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
>>>> way to achieve the highest performance
>>>> in a magnetic direction indicator. The
>>>> case can be made that since you have
>>>> 3 sources of DC power, reliability of
>>>> the electronic compass is assured. I would
>>>> also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
>>>> in the flight bag too.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
>>>> whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
>>>> ever needing one these days is about nil.
>>>> Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
>>>> were fortunate not to be plagued by the
>>>> FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
>>>> when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
>>>> maybe they didn't really go away . . .
>>>> they just morphed into radio antennas.
>>>>
>>>> Let's be really clear about this condition.
>>>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
>>>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
>>>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
>>>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
>>>> the field windings. See:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Inte
>>>> rnal_Fan2.gif
>>>>
>>>> This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
>>>> alternator will present a strong external
>>>> magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
>>>> that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
>>>> for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
>>>> REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
>>>> about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
>>>> the 21st century.
>>>>
>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz> |
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
Very interesting - Thanks Kevin.... This could be a short term solution for
the paperwork battle....
Carl
PS: I wonder how close a C550 is to a glider with both generators OFF ;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Kevin Horton
> Sent: 26 March 2008 14:17
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
>
>
>
>
> There are type certificated aircraft where the whiskey compass is
> only accurate in a very particular electrical system configuration.
> For example, on the Cessna C550 (Citation II business jet), the
> whiskey compass is only useable if both generators are OFF. This is
> quite acceptable to the FAA, Transport Canada, and I presume the NZ CAA.
>
> Given that you have an EFIS with a remote flux valve that acts as
> your primary source of magnetic heading, you don't need the whiskey
> compass to read accurately most of the time. I wonder if it might be
> acceptable to put a placard by the whiskey compass that said "SD-20
> Alternator must be OFF to use compass". Then make a compass
> correction card that is only valid if the SD-20 is OFF.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
> On 25 Mar 2008, at 19:51, Carl Morgan wrote:
> > vii(at)rvproject.gen.nz>
> >
> > Hi Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas, I'm really not that concerned about the whiskey
> > compass functionality - if I've lost all my other mag direction
> > indicators -
> > the engine has stopped, so I don't really care about direction ;-)
> > However
> > the CAA so far is and the calibration card per regs has to be
> > within 10
> > degrees :-(.
> >
> > SD-20 off / disconnected - yes I think the compass reads right -
> > but we are
> > dual bus (two independent active buses), not endurance / essential
> > bus - so
> > both alts need to be running / working.
> >
> > Wire routing - the B lead and field goes aft from the SD-20 to the
> > firewall,
> > left across the top of the firewall, aft again through the firewall
> > and back
> > to a mid location for the regulator which is on a tray between the
> > forward
> > panel ribs (RV 7A Tipup).
> >
> > Remote compass - it could yet be the option - but I don't like to
> > even think
> > about the routing of the cables through the tunnel / spar / wing.....
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Carl
> > --
> > Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
> > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >> Matt
> >> Prather
> >> Sent: 26 March 2008 11:59
> >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Are _you_ concerned about the function of the whiskey compass? If
> >> not
> >> (given the other equipment on board), do your best to come up with a
> >> calibration card for it and call it good.
> >>
> >> Side question.. I got the impression that your compass reads
> >> accurately
> >> when the field is turned off on the SD-20. Can the SD-20 be used
> >> only
> >> when your main alternator is off line? If so, the only time your
> >> compass
> >> will have a problem is if the main alternator fails. I could live
> >> with
> >> that..
> >>
> >> Also, what's the wire routing of the output and field of the SD-20
> >> (with
> >> respect to the compass? Is it possible that the wire routing is
> >> contributing to the B-field generated by the SD-20? Is the ground
> >> following a different route than the field and output wires? I'm
> >> pretty
> >> sure Bob's assessment of the cause of your headache was correct,
> >> but I
> >> wonder if there might be additional factors...
> >>
> >> In a different direction, you can get a remote compass from Century
> >> Instruments:
> >>
> >> http://www.trade-a-plane.com/dispads/0000769074.pdf
> >>
> >> Kinda spendy at $500 for the kit.. And, I don't know if it actually
> >> satisfies the requirement.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Matt-
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bob,
> >>>
> >>> Removing the 'whiskey compass' could / will result in my aircraft
> >>> being
> >>> grounded. I have been round the loop with the NZ CAA and the
> >> 'need' for a
> >>> traditional compass, I already have a GRT EFIS with
> >> magnetometer, IFR GPS
> >>> and still not enough. At the moment it is going to be an up cliff
> >>> paperwork
> >>> struggle.
> >>>
> >>> Removing the SD-20 is a 'better' option from their perspective,
> >> but with a
> >>> full FADEC I'm not comfortable with just dual battery, single
> >> alternator -
> >>> and having got to this point where the engine is running great
> >>> (or too
> >>> well)
> >>> removing the SD-20 isn't an option either. Distance changing
> >> is going to
> >>> be
> >>> in the order of 1" difference, unless I mounted it in the baggage
> >>> compartment. What options can be used to reduce the magnetic
> >> impact - is
> >>> it
> >>> a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We
> >>> are only
> >>> taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some
> >>> interference
> >>> coming out, but what is 'too much'?
> >>>
> >>> WRT:
> >>>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> >>>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> >>>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> >>>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> >>>> the field windings.
> >>>
> >>> My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about
> >>> this
> >>> anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
> >>> reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm
> >>> fixed
> >>> without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and
> >>> one of
> >>> the
> >>> few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
> >>>
> >>> How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
> >>> reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>> --
> >>> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A
> >>> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >>>> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >>>> Sent: 26 March 2008 00:12
> >>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> III"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different
> >>>> problems. One
> >>>>> outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3
> >>>> combination.
> >>>>> We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern
> >>>> hemisphere
> >>>>> model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center).
> >>>> We are dual
> >>>>> alt / dual bus configuration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection)
> >>>> we get up
> >>>>> to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount
> >>>>> (from 20-40
> >>>>> degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling
> >> the field
> >>>>> breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the
> >>>> regulator / alt are
> >>>>> still have an affect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm
> >>>> struggling! I
> >>>>> can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15
> >>>>> degrees).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator
> >>>>> - no
> >>>>> difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the
> >>>>> panel /
> >>>>> cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to
> >>>>> tell).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall
> >>>> forward side of
> >>>>> the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero
> >>>> RPM and full
> >>>>> power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on
> >>>>> current
> >>>> draw
> >>>>> from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no
> >> movement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Questions:
> >>>>> a) Have others got this / solved this?
> >>>>> b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Carl
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem is magnetic, not electrical.
> >>>> Had this problem on the Bonanza too. The SD-20
> >>>> (as do most alternators) has a considerable
> >>>> leakage of magnetic flux from the rotor winding.
> >>>> This isn't a problem for most installations
> >>>> where the alternator mounts on the front of
> >>>> the engine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternators hung on the rear of the engine
> >>>> are much closer to the instrument panel and
> >>>> more likely to be an issue with a panel
> >>>> mounted compass.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the Bonanza, we moved the compass off the
> >>>> glareshield to a location on higher on the
> >>>> windshield. Adding a magnetic shield around
> >>>> the SD-20 is a pretty busy task. The shield
> >>>> material would have to be magnetic and cover
> >>>> the rear and perhaps the circumference of the
> >>>> alternator. This has some issues with cooling,
> >>>> wiring egress and labor to implement it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The easiest fix is to increase distance between
> >>>> the compass and the alternator. Magnetic
> >>>> 'radiation' is a weak propagator . . . a little
> >>>> distance really helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternatively, an electronic compass with
> >>>> a remote sensor out in a wing is the best
> >>>> way to achieve the highest performance
> >>>> in a magnetic direction indicator. The
> >>>> case can be made that since you have
> >>>> 3 sources of DC power, reliability of
> >>>> the electronic compass is assured. I would
> >>>> also hope that you carry a hand-held GPS
> >>>> in the flight bag too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not sure I'd bother to install a
> >>>> whisky compass any more. Likelihood of
> >>>> ever needing one these days is about nil.
> >>>> Same thing happened to buggy whips. We
> >>>> were fortunate not to be plagued by the
> >>>> FHA (Federal Horsecart Administration)
> >>>> when the transition occurred. Hmmmm . . .
> >>>> maybe they didn't really go away . . .
> >>>> they just morphed into radio antennas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's be really clear about this condition.
> >>>> This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
> >>>> for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
> >>>> shaft that runs through the device parallel
> >>>> to the magnetic lines of force generated in
> >>>> the field windings. See:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/Alternator_w_Inte
> >>>> rnal_Fan2.gif
> >>>>
> >>>> This mechanical feature insures that EVERY
> >>>> alternator will present a strong external
> >>>> magnetic field. It's a system integration problem
> >>>> that seldom presents but has multiple solutions
> >>>> for maintaining flight-system reliability. The
> >>>> REAL problem is getting those-who-know-more-
> >>>> about-airplanes-than-we-do to join us in
> >>>> the 21st century.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob . . .
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 25/03/2008 10:26
>
Checked by AVG.
10:26
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Creek" <mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net> |
Try Vans web store (www.vansaircraft.com). They have alt brackets for
reasonable prices. However, having gone down this road myself, I would
recommend going with the PP alternator. I first bought the Vans mounts and
later switched to the PP. You'll be really happy with it and their mounting
brackets.
Mike
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:26 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator
I have a 12V 60A Chrysler alternator that came with the engine I am
rebuilding. Unfortunately I do not have the brackets for this alternator.
Does anyone know where to get brackets for a reasonable price (I don't even
know what part number), or would I be better off just going with a Plane
Power kit?
Thanks
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? |
>
>D,
> I had the same issue and bought a roll of AMP tin plated for 18-22
>AWG wire.
>DigiKey P/N A27933CT-ND
>AMP P/N 60295-2
>If these will help send me your address off list and I will mail you a few.
>I bought 100 and needed 3 :( I just couldn't think of butt splices on the
>Alternator wires.
Why butt splice? You can do a very compact, robust solder
splice. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: DME/Transponder Suppression |
Good Morning Don and 'Lectric Bob,
I imagine you are both aware of this, but just in case some others may not
be, the GPS is a legal substitute for any published IFR DME function. The GPS
must be in an IFR approved installation configuration, but it does not have
to be approach approved, just enroute and terminal approved.
The substitution is approved in the entire US National Airspace system and
in many other countries as well.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
N3977A
Downers Grove, IL
In a message dated 3/25/2008 6:25:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:
Have you considered a GPS receiver in lieu of DME? DME works
with a hand full of ground stations while GPS will give you
distance to any point on the surface of the earth. DME
is one of those electronic buggy whips that needs to be
moved to the museum.
Bob . . .
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
>
>
>Hi Matt,
>
>Thanks for the ideas, I'm really not that concerned about the whiskey
>compass functionality - if I've lost all my other mag direction indicators -
>the engine has stopped, so I don't really care about direction ;-) However
>the CAA so far is and the calibration card per regs has to be within 10
>degrees :-(.
>
>SD-20 off / disconnected - yes I think the compass reads right - but we are
>dual bus (two independent active buses), not endurance / essential bus - so
>both alts need to be running / working.
If you have a cross-feed, then just about every individual who knows-
more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will accept a fall back position for
dealing with failures that might present other limits as well.
Assuming that all other "normal" methods for pointing the nose in
the right direction are no longer available, then shutting the SD-20
OFF, closing the cross-feed contactor, reducing total loads to that
of the main alternator and flying with a now acceptable performance
from the antiquated pointing device is a perfectly valid 'plan-B'.
>Wire routing - the B lead and field goes aft from the SD-20 to the firewall,
>left across the top of the firewall, aft again through the firewall and back
>to a mid location for the regulator which is on a tray between the forward
>panel ribs (RV 7A Tipup).
The B-lead comes into the cockpit? Where are your batteries? The
B-lead can and should be well away from the instrument panel and
tie to fat-wires through a small ANL or MAXI fuse. I presume that
you're seeing maximum effect with the engine at idle while doing
the Mexican hat-dance at the compass rose. These are the conditions
where current in the b-lead is least . . . perhaps even zero while
current through the field is maxed out. The regulator is hollering
down to the engine room for "more power Mr. Scott . . . I need
MORE power". Of course, at low engine RPM, the regulator isn't
going to get what it wants to see and field current and associated
external effects are at their maximums.
>Remote compass - it could yet be the option - but I don't like to even think
>about the routing of the cables through the tunnel / spar / wing.....
Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky
compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure
tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know-
more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the
once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of
hood ornaments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference |
. . . a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We
are only taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some
interference coming out, but what is 'too much'?
WRT:
"This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard
for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel
shaft that runs through the device parallel
to the magnetic lines of force generated in
the field windings."
My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about
this anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have
reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm
fixed without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and
one of the few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in....
How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small
reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec.
It wouldn't hurt to drop B&C a note suggesting that their
install literature be appropriately enhanced. But in their
defense, this is not a common occurrence . . . you COULD
be having a similar problem by routing some fat wire too
close to the compass . . . or some other system integration
problem like installing one of the older DC motor driven
turn indicators too close and having interference from
its internal magnets.
It's unfortunate that after all the work you've put
into the airplane (and being so VERY close to finished)
that this problem should become the longest pole in your
tent. Welcome to the real world of aviation products design
and qualification! 95% of my services to clients on the
TC side of the house right now involve chasing $100
rats from multi-million dollar airplanes . . . with
those-who-know-more-about-airplanes-than-we-do holding
the type certification hostage until the flight system
is pest-free.
A well considered and easily demonstrated low-risk
plan-B for making the compass readings fall within specs
is the no-hardware, no hammers-n-saws approach to
getting your machine blessed until it's legal to move
the "hood ornament" out onto the cowl.
Interestingly enough, I recall sometime in the past
seeing a compass installation that was on a bracket
just outside the windscreen. I think it was put there
to get outside the cage of a day-vfr, rag-n-tube
machine that was too badly magnetized to allow
calibration of the compass when installed in it's
normal position within the cockpit.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: S700-2-1 wiring |
>Bob or any other electrical wizard...
>
>Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch to
>include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'.
>wired it like this:
> #3 bat bus & light post #4 light post
>
> #2 avionics bus #5 grnd
>
> #1 main bus & light post #6 light post
>
>When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
>When I toggle 'off' - everything off
>When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off
>
>When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch)
> 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
> 'off' -
> everything off
> 'main bus' instruments on - no light
>What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights from
>B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery.
>Thanks in advance.
>Mike H 9A/8A
Mike, can you do a schematic of how your system is wired
and post a scan to the List? I'm not sure my mental image
based on your words is an accurate depiction of the electron
map.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) |
>
> Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky
> compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure
> tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know-
> more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the
> once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of
> hood ornaments.
>
> Bob . . .
Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call
"Whisky" to the magnetic compass?
Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch
before flying
:-)
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic |
interference)
Carlos,
Many many moons ago the damping fluid for the magnetic compass was alcohol as it
was cheep, readily available and would not freeze.
Good building and great flying,
Bob B
On Wednesday, March 26, 2008, at 07:52AM, "Carlos Trigo"
wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky
>> compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure
>> tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know-
>> more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the
>> once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of
>> hood ornaments.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
>Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call
>"Whisky" to the magnetic compass?
>
>Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch
>before flying
>:-)
>
>Carlos
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Am I correct....... |
..........That message number 19 for Wed, 26Mar08 is over 330 lines long?
Why?
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
I have lights!
The resistors worked great and my mock up works great. The pins on the
Stanley LED's are standard to a project board so mounting them will be
easier than I first thought. I am going to do a burn-in and temperature
test this weekend to make sure I am not generating heat.
For a low voltage, non-critical application like this, would it be
acceptable to use a solder bridge for the pins I need to bridge?
On the 5 LED bars, you have to bridge 2-3, 4.5, 6-7, 8-9.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 17:01
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
That is the formula I was looking for. Thank you.
The light bars themselves, have 5 LED's so those will go in a series. My
last trick will be mounting them and the wiring of said LED's. I am hoping
a blank project circuit board will do what I want. The trick with the
circuit board will be the spacing requirements (space between light bars).
Once that is figured, I can order the face (reverse engraved acrylic).
I am also working on a "push-to test" option.
As far as the intensity, since these will be behind a reverse engraved
acrylic (black behind clear) only the letters themselves will light up.
Once I get the mock up completed, the day/night intensity testing will be
performed.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon
Little
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 15:46
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Hi Scott:
Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If is 20
ma (from datasheet)
For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm
standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately.
If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 - 5*1.7)/0.020
285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value).
Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you may
want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other
displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer for
this.
Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to using
them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright sunlight.
I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was an
issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such as
locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that
will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their
intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!.
Good luck.
Vern Little.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Butler" <andrewbutler(at)ireland.com> |
| Subject: | Aux power and the battery |
All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on.
1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use
this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the
build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug
to the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the
bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this
while the battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system?
2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the
battery through the same female cigaratte power port?
Thanks for your help.
Andrew Butler.
RV71700 - Finishing kit.
Galway, Ireland.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kimball <mkimball(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic |
interference)
Along with following the needle after too much Scotch, sit back and watch
the fun when your over-prepared student finds a good spot to stick his
flashlight with the magnetic catch. (This really happened.)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:31 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic
interference)
>
> Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky
> compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure
> tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know-
> more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the
> once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of
> hood ornaments.
>
> Bob . . .
Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call
"Whisky" to the magnetic compass?
Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch
before flying
:-)
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Splicing was (oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?) |
Bob,
Although I have been splicing wire for 45 years I prefer #1 no
splices, #2 properly crimped gas tight connectors, or #3 strain relieved
connections soldered to a terminal #4 would be a mid span splice. In most
cases I will install a connector mid wire run if it may need to be broken
for service, or ease of assembly. That said the fewer connections the less
likelihood for failure. In the case of the alternator connector any splice
adds mass that is hanging a few inches from the connector that then must be
supported to prevent it moving in relation to the alternator and breaking
the wiring. Yes it's doable but in keeping with KISS I just used the proper
terminal as designed.
And yes I did splice a few wires mid span in my project, no I didn't
need to but I just got lazy and didn't want to pull a longer wire. They
will outlast both me and the plane. No worries, the electrons don't know the
difference. :)
Thanks for all you do, we have all learned a lot.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?
>
>D,
> I had the same issue and bought a roll of AMP tin plated for 18-22
>AWG wire.
>DigiKey P/N A27933CT-ND
>AMP P/N 60295-2
>If these will help send me your address off list and I will mail you a few.
>I bought 100 and needed 3 :( I just couldn't think of butt splices on the
>Alternator wires.
Why butt splice? You can do a very compact, robust solder
splice. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Sp
lices.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barter" <kesleyelectric(at)chooseblue.coop> |
| Subject: | METCAL tip cartridges |
I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip cartridges
for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For 63/37 solder, is
the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat wires, it seems that the
STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure about a tip for
smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well acquainted users
would be welcome.
Tom Barter
Kesley, IA
Avid Magnum
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aux power and the battery |
Make sure you have the right polarity.
If the power supply does not handle short circuits (internal current limit
and shutdown) you might want to fuse it.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Butler
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery
All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on.
1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use
this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the
build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug to
the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the bus.
What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this while the
battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system?
2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the battery
through the same female cigaratte power port?
Thanks for your help.
Andrew Butler.
RV71700 - Finishing kit.
Galway, Ireland.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Resistors |
In a message dated 03/25/2008 3:15:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
sshook(at)cox.net writes:
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
Hi Scott-
I used the same LEDs and they've worked quite nicely for 4 years/almost 500
hours. Here's the arrangement I cobbled together:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7604_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7604)
click on foto for larger view. Drawing available in AutoCAD if you'd like a
copy...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo"
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
>All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on.
>
>1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use
>this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the
>build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug
>to the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the
>bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this
>while the battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system?
12 volts is a bit too low to be run in parallel with
a battery. Generally speaking, 12v power supplies are
crafted for energizing electronics. Since 12v batteries
in vehicles need 13.8 minimum (14.2 better) to co-exist
with a power source, the supply you have could be used for
limited testing as a stand-alone source of power.
>2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the
>battery through the same female cigaratte power port?
If it's an automotive "smart charger", what is it's
rated capacity for charging? The BEST way to power your
airplane from the AC mains is to acquire some form of
smart charger. Exemplar devices can be viewed in this
.pdf catalog from Schumacher.
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf
I have a couple of Schumacher products, one of which
is good for 25A in the recharge mode. I'll need to do
some tests with it but my thinking is that devices like
these could be permanently connected across your ship's
battery and plugged into the wall. Their microprocessor
smarts should react to keep the battery charged irrespective
of how much "stuff" you test.
This should work even large loads and relatively
small smart chargers. Of course the battery will have
to make up the difference between what say a 2A
charger will put out and a 10A test load. But as
soon as you shut things off, the battery charger
can be trusted to do its thing and bring the battery
back up to 100%.
If you'd like to have a power supply that emulates
"real" vehicular power, watch for 13.8 volt devices
sold to power mobile electronics in the house. I used
to sell the Samlex 1223 and a kit to make it emulate
an alternator. You could plug it into wall, hook it
to the alternator's b-lead and have it respond to
the cockpit alternator control switch. Sitting in
the left seat, everything on the panel worked as if
you had an engine running with a 23A alternator on
it. See:
http://tinyurl.com/2zdt3u
I've always recommended that builders not buy a new
battery until the airplane was ready to fly. During
construction phases, a lawn tractor battery and a
plug-in-the-wall power supply would let you get everything
running in the airplane without abusing a brand
new flight-battery. A smart charger connected
across the battery is a reasonable substitute for a
high-quality power supply.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
Sure if it is on a battery bus. Maybe not a good idea if you have to
leave a battery contactor energised.
Ken
>
> 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the
> battery through the same female cigaratte power port?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Andrew Butler.
> RV71700 - Finishing kit.
> Galway, Ireland.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Aux power and the battery |
>Make sure you have the right polarity.
>
>If the power supply does not handle short circuits (internal current limit
>and shutdown) you might want to fuse it.
Good points!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: METCAL tip cartridges |
>I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip
>cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For
>63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat wires,
>it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure
>about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well
>acquainted users would be welcome.
>
>
We've used only Metcal soldering irons in the shop now for
10 years. I have three in various locations in my facilities
and a couple more I loan out to folks who put stuff together for
me. To date, I've found no finer tool (that I can afford) for
the task.
The Metcal catalog for STTC series tips can be downloaded
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Metcal/Metcal_Tips.pdf
The heaviest tip for fat-wire work is the #65. I've installed
terminals on 4AWG wire with this critter. It takes awhile but
it will do it. The commonly found tips in the wild are 000 hundred
(600F) or 100 series (700F). For 63/37 solder, it doesn't matter
much for most work. I'm interested in getting some really fine
500 series tips for working some really tiny stuff.
For general soldering tasks, a #25, 04 or 36 will serve you well.
I have a few tips like the #45 for soldering down those parts
surface mounted parts fitted with copper "cat-hair" for leads.
I presume you're watching the offerings on ebay. Most of
my tips came in assortments of used where some were pretty
rough but I got them cheap and enough good tips in the lot
to make it a good value. But there's some really reasonable
offerings for new, single tips.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: METCAL tip cartridges |
Tom Barter wrote:
>
> I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip
> cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For
> 63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat
> wires, it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate.
> Not sure about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any
> advice from well acquainted users would be welcome.
>
>
>
> Tom Barter
>
> Kesley, IA
>
> Avid Magnum
>
>
>
I soldered more connections than I want to think about using old Weller
soldering stations in another life. I always opted for 700 degree tips.
My logic was that with half-way decent technique, the extra temp can
actually reduce the chance of damaging components. It drives the joint
temperature up quicker, giving less time for the heat to spread out into
critical areas you *don't* want heated up. It can also extend the
usefulness of an iron that's marginal for the mass of the joint you're
trying to solder. The extra temperature increases the effective thermal
'mass' available to heat a big joint.
It's a pretty safe bet that others will have different opinions.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about Resistors |
In a message dated 03/26/2008 11:37:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
sshook(at)cox.net writes:
For a low voltage, non-critical application like this, would it be acceptable
to use a solder bridge for the pins I need to bridge?
>>>
That's exactly what I did, on a standard project board like you mentioned-
bend the prongs over and nail 'em with a touch of solder. Only difference is I
used the 3-LED blocks instead of the 5...
see: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5135_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5135)
I'll also mention that I chose slightly smaller resistors than would normally
be called for to brighten them up a bit. Consider that these annunciators
are typically illuminated for relatively short periods of time and even if
overdriven, they will likely outlast your airplane. I tested this by intentionally
overdriving sample blocks well over their limit for about two weeks
continuous with no failures. I would also recommend buying several spares of each
specific block you use- they are really cheap, and you never know how long an
identical item will be available for replacement, if ever needed. Neat stuff...
Mark
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Question about Resistors |
Scott: surf to aircraftextras.com here:
http://aircraftextras.com/VxAviation.htm
<http://www.vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#IL-4A,%20IL-12A_more>
The IL-4A controller can be used to drive lamps, and support various
polarities of input signals. It also allows you to connect to your
dimmer
and supports push-to-test.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R.
Shook
Sent: March 25, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
That is the formula I was looking for. Thank you.
The light bars themselves, have 5 LED's so those will go in a series.
My
last trick will be mounting them and the wiring of said LED's. I am
hoping
a blank project circuit board will do what I want. The trick with the
circuit board will be the spacing requirements (space between light
bars).
Once that is figured, I can order the face (reverse engraved acrylic).
I am also working on a "push-to test" option.
As far as the intensity, since these will be behind a reverse engraved
acrylic (black behind clear) only the letters themselves will light up.
Once I get the mock up completed, the day/night intensity testing will
be
performed.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 15:46
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Hi Scott:
Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If
is 20
ma (from datasheet)
For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm
standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately.
If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 -
5*1.7)/0.020
285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value).
Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you
may
want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other
displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer
for
this.
Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to
using
them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright
sunlight.
I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was
an
issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such
as
locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that
will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their
intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!.
Good luck.
Vern Little.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R.
Shook
Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors
Bob et al,
I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light
Bars
PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from
Digikey,
the voltage is 1.7v per LED.
This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors
I
would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM
aircraft?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: S700-2-1 wiring |
Bob,
I figured out what was wrong. I didn't realize that the indicator lights
were LEDS and must be wired differently from bulbs. White dot on side of
light housing apparently meant 12v source. When I wired it that way(had it
reversed) the lights came on. HooRahh!.
Thanks for responding, wiring is completed-at last.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 wiring
>
>
>
>>Bob or any other electrical wizard...
>>
>>Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch to
>>include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'.
>>wired it like this:
>> #3 bat bus & light post #4 light
>> post
>>
>> #2 avionics bus #5 grnd
>>
>> #1 main bus & light post #6 light
>> post
>>
>>When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
>>When I toggle 'off' - everything
>>off
>>When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off
>>
>>When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch)
>> 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light
>> 'off' -
>> everything off
>> 'main bus' instruments on - no light
>>What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights from
>>B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery.
>>Thanks in advance.
>>Mike H 9A/8A
>
> Mike, can you do a schematic of how your system is wired
> and post a scan to the List? I'm not sure my mental image
> based on your words is an accurate depiction of the electron
> map.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Using NC Switches |
3/27/2008
Hello Again Tom, I am disappointed that nobody on the aeroelectric list
responded
to your request that I forwarded to them for help on using NC switches .
(See copy below)
Let me take a stab at your request and if I provide bum information maybe
one of the experts on the list (even Bob Nuckolls) may step in and provide
correct, or better, information.
There are small electrical relays, commonly called "ice cube relays" because
of their size, that can be used for the purpose that you want -- providing
an electrical signal when all you have available for control is a NC
(normally closed) switch in your aircraft's control grip.
Here is one such relay available from B&C -- I am sure that there are many
others:
http://www.bandc.biz/S704-1_tips.html
It has a 12 volt activated coil and two contacts activated by the slug that
is moved when electricity is applied to the relay coil. One of the contacts
is labeled NC (normally closed) and the other is labeled NO (normally open).
Status A) If there is no electricity flowing through the relay coil the
relay NC contact is connected to the relay common contact and the relay NO
contact is not connected to the relay common contact.
Status B) When there is electricty flowing through the relay coil the relay
NC contact is disconnected from the relay common contact and the relay NO
contact is connected to the relay common contact.
You can wire one side of the NC switch in your control grip with a wire
leading to one of the relay coil contacts. Then you can wire the other relay
coil contact on to aircraft ground. Then you can wire the other side of the
NC switch in the control grip to a live electrical source in the aircraft.
You will have created a continuous electric flow through the coil and the
relay and its contacts will be in status B above.
Now you determine whatever electrical signal is to be sent to the
transponder in order to have it ident and wire a continuous source of that
signal to the transponder through the relay common and the relay NC
contacts. Because you are in status B there is no connection between the
relay common connection and the relay NC contact and the transponder will
not ident.
When you depress the button for the NC switch in your control grip the relay
will go into status A and an ident signal will be sent to the transponder as
long you keep the button for the NC switch on the control grip depressed.
Realize that there are some downsides to this arrangement:
1) There will be a continuous drain on your electrical system to keep the
relay coil activated at all times except for the brief moments when you
depress the NC switch button on the control grip.
2) If you have a wiring disconnect beween the NC switch on the control grip
and the relay the transponder will receive a continuous signal to ident.
There are probably more elegant electrical solutions to solving this problem
and one could eliminate the two downsides listed above by using two relays
to accomplish the ident (or other actions desired), but that is left as an
exercise for the reader.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: I realize that HOTAS (Hands On Trottle And Stick) is appealing to some
homebuilders as a high tech form of snobbery, but it ain't my cup of tea. I
fly in a pretty intense radar coverage environment (the Washington DC ADIZ)
and I bet that in the past several years that it has been in effect that I
haven't been asked to ident more than 4 or 5 times. Not a big deal to just
reach over and push the button on my transponder.
-----------------------------------------
3/12/2008
Hello Tom, You wrote:
1) "For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to
actually cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military
helicopter stick? What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch?"
We used to say that having helicopter time in your pilot's logbook was like
having an STD entry (it was called venereal disease back then) in your
health
record.
So I will reluctantly admit that I did fly a helicopter (CH-46) for a year
in Viet Nam. The cyclic grip had a button on it that when pressed would
disconnect the electronic flight stability / attitude positioning system so
that one could manually reposition the stick and the helicopter's attitude
then releasing the button would reengage the electronic attitude positioning
system.
Maybe you have a control stick grip that does something similar.
2) "Again, is there any way I can wire it to work with my remote ident
operation?"
I am not the right guy to answer that question, but I am sure that by using
two of the small "ice cube" type relays that ident operation could be
accomplished. It might be a pretty awkward way of doing it though from an
electrical viewpoint.
I'll forward your question to the Matronic's aeroelectric-list and maybe one
of the electrical experts there (even the great guru Bob Nuckolls) would
take a shot at it.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:25 AM
Subject: Electrical question
On my military surplus control stick I have 4 push buttons, 2 wired normally
opened (NO) and 2 wired normally closed (NC). I really do not have access
to these switches so I have to make due but can I use the NC switches
somehow?
I have plans for comm flip/flop, nav flip/flop, and Ident for my
transponder. I actually have a "hattie" switch in the middle for trim which
is not hooked up. The stick is installed with the ptt and intercom trigger
switches working good. All kinds of switches on this guy. Was not going to
use it but hey, it felt so comfortable, why not.
For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to actually
cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military helicopter stick?
What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch? Again, is there any
way I can wire it to work with my remote ident operation?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Butler" <andrewbutler(at)ireland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
Thanks very much Bob. Here is the charger I bought:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=12204&doy=27m3
#spec
How does it look?
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:19:39 -0500
> All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on.
>
> 1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like
to use this as an ad-hoc
> power for install and testing of components through the build. I
was thinking of attaching a
> standard male cigaratte lighter plug to the leads and then use a
female recepticle to receive
> and power the bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will
happen if I do this while the
> battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system?
12 volts is a bit too low to be run in parallel with
a battery. Generally speaking, 12v power supplies are
crafted for energizing electronics. Since 12v batteries
in vehicles need 13.8 minimum (14.2 better) to co-exist
with a power source, the supply you have could be used for
limited testing as a stand-alone source of power.
> 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the
battery through the same
> female cigaratte power port?
If it's an automotive "smart charger", what is it's
rated capacity for charging? The BEST way to power your
airplane from the AC mains is to acquire some form of
smart charger. Exemplar devices can be viewed in this
.pdf catalog from Schumacher.
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf
I have a couple of Schumacher products, one of which
is good for 25A in the recharge mode. I'll need to do
some tests with it but my thinking is that devices like
these could be permanently connected across your ship's
battery and plugged into the wall. Their microprocessor
smarts should react to keep the battery charged irrespective
of how much "stuff" you test.
This should work even large loads and relatively
small smart chargers. Of course the battery will have
to make up the difference between what say a 2A
charger will put out and a 10A test load. But as
soon as you shut things off, the battery charger
can be trusted to do its thing and bring the battery
back up to 100%.
If you'd like to have a power supply that emulates
"real" vehicular power, watch for 13.8 volt devices
sold to power mobile electronics in the house. I used
to sell the Samlex 1223 and a kit to make it emulate
an alternator. You could plug it into wall, hook it
to the alternator's b-lead and have it respond to
the cockpit alternator control switch. Sitting in
the left seat, everything on the panel worked as if
you had an engine running with a 23A alternator on
it. See:
http://tinyurl.com/2zdt3u
I've always recommended that builders not buy a new
battery until the airplane was ready to fly. During
construction phases, a lawn tractor battery and a
plug-in-the-wall power supply would let you get everything
running in the airplane without abusing a brand
new flight-battery. A smart charger connected
across the battery is a reasonable substitute for a
high-quality power supply.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
===========
===========
===========
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | METCAL tip cartridges |
Don't have much to add over what Bob said, except I can echo his comments.
We only use Metcal here as well...tried just about every type out there and
Metcal seems to have the best reliability vs functionality. I have over a
dozen of them, and I would agree with him on tips. I too buy them off Ebay
once and awhile because sometimes they are a deal!
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
>L. Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:51 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: METCAL tip cartridges
>
>
>
>
>
>>I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip
>>cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For
>>63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering
>fat wires,
>>it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure
>>about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well
>>acquainted users would be welcome.
>>
>>
>
> We've used only Metcal soldering irons in the shop now for
> 10 years. I have three in various locations in my facilities
> and a couple more I loan out to folks who put stuff together for
> me. To date, I've found no finer tool (that I can afford) for
> the task.
>
> The Metcal catalog for STTC series tips can be downloaded
> at:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Metcal/Metcal_Tips.pdf
>
> The heaviest tip for fat-wire work is the #65. I've installed
> terminals on 4AWG wire with this critter. It takes awhile but
> it will do it. The commonly found tips in the wild are 000 hundred
> (600F) or 100 series (700F). For 63/37 solder, it doesn't matter
> much for most work. I'm interested in getting some really fine
> 500 series tips for working some really tiny stuff.
>
> For general soldering tasks, a #25, 04 or 36 will serve you well.
> I have a few tips like the #45 for soldering down those parts
> surface mounted parts fitted with copper "cat-hair" for leads.
>
>
> I presume you're watching the offerings on ebay. Most of
> my tips came in assortments of used where some were pretty
> rough but I got them cheap and enough good tips in the lot
> to make it a good value. But there's some really reasonable
> offerings for new, single tips.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
FWIW, I use a variable voltage (1-14 VDC) power supply <*
http://tinyurl.com/ypdhy6/>* to test run the electrical equipment. It can be
run at 13.8VDC for routine operational tests, or the voltage can be
progressively lowered to test low voltage monitors, etc.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | METCAL soldering irons |
What will happen if I buy an American (110V-60Hz) soldering iron and connect
it directly (without a transformer) to an European (220V-50Hz) power socket?
Do I get some smoke?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: METCAL soldering irons |
"Carlos Trigo" wrote:
>
> What will happen if I buy an American (110V-60Hz) soldering iron and connect
> it directly (without a transformer) to an European (220V-50Hz) power socket?
> Do I get some smoke?
>
> Carlos
>
Yes! Later if not sooner. I would bet on sooner.
Bob W.
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Any Ray Allen LED Dimming Circuit ideas? |
Hello,
Panel is all wired up, just some fine tuning. One item is that the Ray
Allen
LED trim indicators are too bright when switched to =BD brightness.
I have scanned the net for a way to convert them to a linear dimming
range
but have found nothing. I am at point of installing a switch to turn
them
off except when needed.
I am hoping someone has a more elegant (read cheap) solution. They=92re
already mounted in the panel so chucking them is not an option.
Thanks!
Vince H.
Idaho ' RV-8 VSB (Very Slow Built) Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator Breaker Pop |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am performing my first engine runs with a Jabiru 3300 powered Zenith 601XL.
This is a PM alternator and my wiring is based on the Z16 architecture using the
S704-1 alternator control and crowbar OV protection. So far everything is
working just fine with one exception. Of the 10 or so engine starts I have made,
twice I found the 5A alternator breaker popped. This is the breaker between
the main bus and the master switch. On both occasions, the engine was at idle
and I shut it down then re-started it after a few moments. It was after the
start that I noticed the popped breaker.
I don't know if the breaker popped on shutdown or during the re-start. In either
case I was able to reset the breaker and all appeared to be OK.
Anybody have any ideas on what is going on here? All the volt and amp numbers
I have seen are "in the green." Do shutdown or start-ups cause nuisance pops?
Thanks,
DaveG
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173164#173164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using NC Switches |
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby(at)comcast.net>
>To: "Pulsar List"
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:25 AM
>Subject: Electrical question
>
>
>On my military surplus control stick I have 4 push buttons, 2 wired normally
>opened (NO) and 2 wired normally closed (NC). I really do not have access
>to these switches so I have to make due but can I use the NC switches
>somehow?
>I have plans for comm flip/flop, nav flip/flop, and Ident for my
>transponder. I actually have a "hattie" switch in the middle for trim which
>is not hooked up. The stick is installed with the ptt and intercom trigger
>switches working good. All kinds of switches on this guy. Was not going to
>use it but hey, it felt so comfortable, why not.
>For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to actually
>cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military helicopter stick?
>What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch? Again, is there any
>way I can wire it to work with my remote ident operation?
>
>Tom
Sorry I didn't get to this. Pretty busy around here lately
. . . and I've got a new modus-operandi for dealing with
the 'fun' stuff. I completely clear my in-box every couple of
days so that I don't get messages stacked up for weeks that
have little if any prospect of getting my attention. So
posting again is not a bad idea.
Exactly what do you wish to do with the NC buttons. You
mentioned 4 switches total, two of which are normally
closed an you inferred that you might like to use them
in circuits that need NO operation. The elegant solution
is dependent upon what functionality you wish the switch
to perform. Relays can be used but solid state is better.
Let's "talk" about it an see what works best.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
Last week when I put the UltraLast cells on the hand-dandy-
battery-runner-downer I had a single loose Maxell AA cell
laying on the bench. I threw it on the tester at 1/6th
the benchmark loads I've used to compare various brands of
batteries. My benchmark testing is done at 300 mA, this
cell was loaded to 50 mA.
The differences in apparent capacity are pretty profound.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/300_vs_50mA_discharge_of_AA_cell.jpg
A reduction of load to 50 mA allowed me to get twice
the stored energy from the cells chemistry.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Coax Stripper Clearance |
I was looking through some boxes for parts on a client
project and ran across some 3-blade, coax wire strippers
left over from a time when we were merchandising tools
and materials.
This tool:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Strippers/3-Blade_Adjustable_1.jpg
produces this strip job:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Strippers/3-Blade_Adjustable_6.jpg
on RG-58/400/141 coax making it ready to install a connector:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Wire_Strippers/3-Blade_Adjustable_9.jpg
It's adjustable and comes with the right size Allen wrench
to set depths for other styles of coax.
I have about a dozen of these and will make them available
to folks for $10 each plus $1.30 postage for a total of $11.30
You can place an order on our secure order form at:
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Put a note in the comments box that you want a coax stripper.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just for grins |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/300_vs_50mA_discharge_of_AA_cell.jpg
>
>
> A reduction of load to 50 mA allowed me to get twice
> the stored energy from the cells chemistry.
When designing the battery configuration, I will get more than twice
the energy from the system if I wire the batteries in parallel? Could
you run a test with 150mA load? That would simulate dual batteries
loaded in parallel vs a single battery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any Ray Allen LED Dimming Circuit ideas? |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
The LED units have a lead which dims them when connected to 12v. It's
an on-off type of thing as far as I know, no way to use a dimming
circuit. I'm using the Perihelion Dimmer which has a switched output as
well as a dimmed output. I connected the Trim indicators dimmer wire to
the switched side, so when I turn on my interior lights, the trim
indicators dim.
Dennis Glaeser
RV7A - first flight planned for tomorrow!
---------------------------------------------------
Hello,
Panel is all wired up, just some fine tuning. One item is that the Ray
Allen
LED trim indicators are too bright when switched to =BD brightness.
I have scanned the net for a way to convert them to a linear dimming
range
but have found nothing. I am at point of installing a switch to turn
them
off except when needed.
I am hoping someone has a more elegant (read cheap) solution. They=92re
already mounted in the panel so chucking them is not an option.
Thanks!
Vince H.
Idaho ' RV-8 VSB (Very Slow Built) Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker Pop |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
A wire could be intermittently shorting to ground or there could be an over-voltage
condition. Shut off all expensive electronics, then try disconnecting the
wire at the master switch that goes to the over-voltage module and see if the
problem goes away. If it does, then there could be an over-voltage condition.
The battery should help prevent voltage spikes. Does the battery contactor
remain energized until the engine stops turning?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173273#173273
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Piavis <jpiavis(at)microsoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
Along the lines of the current thread, what is the best way to connect the
power supply/ charger? Can a 20A charger be connected via the b-lead to sim
ulate alternator current to the system, or should the charger always be con
nected across the battery. Same for a dedicated power supply? I'm also loo
king for a good power supply while I work through the avionics configuratio
n and familiarization of the systems.
Jim
RV-7 Getting Close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
>Along the lines of the current thread, what is the best way to connect the
>power supply/ charger? Can a 20A charger be connected via the b-lead to
>simulate alternator current to the system, or should the charger always be
>connected across the battery. Same for a dedicated power supply? I m also
>looking for a good power supply while I work through the avionics
>configuration and familiarization of the systems.
A "power supply" is generally clean and stable enough
to be stand alone energy source for running things in
your airplane or on the bench.
A "battery charger" may not . . . and the best way to
use a charger is to connect it permanently across the
battery and then use the battery to run ship's systems.
Any of the power supply products rated for an output
voltage of "13.8" will be a stand-alone product designed
to run loads up to and including it's rated output
current. Do a Goggle search on
13.8 power supply
and you get a wad of hits. I'd recommend something
on the order of 20A or better capability like a Samlex
1223 . . . but there are many serviceable products.
See:
http://www.nextag.com/13.8vdc-power-supply/search-html
http://www.radiodan.com/misc/samlex1223.htm
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Just for grins |
>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>See:
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/300_vs_50mA_discharge_of_AA_cell.jpg
>>
>>
>>A reduction of load to 50 mA allowed me to get twice
>>the stored energy from the cells chemistry.
>When designing the battery configuration, I will get more than twice the
>energy from the system if I wire the batteries in parallel? Could you run
>a test with 150mA load? That would simulate dual batteries loaded in
>parallel vs a single battery.
EXCELLENT question. Actually, doubling the batteries up in
parallel will get you MORE than twice the energy. The reasoning
here is that energy lost in the battery's internal resistance
is a Watt=I(squared)*R function.
Went to the bench an measured one of those same Maxell cells
open circuit at 1610 mV. I put a 25 ohm load across the cell
and it dropped to 1580 for a difference of 30 millivolts.
The load was 1580mV/25ohms = 63mA . Therefor the internal
resistance of this cell is 30mV/63mA or about 475 milliohms.
Okay, 475 milliohms loaded to 300 mA will drop 140 millivolts
and toss off .140v x .3A or 42 milliwats of heat. Now, let
us connect two cells in parallel. Each cell now sees 1/2
the total load or .15A x .475 ohms = 71 millivolts drop
and .071 x .15 = 10 milliwatts of heating. Considering
the two cells in parallel they now each toss off 10 milliwatts
for a TOTAL of 20 milliwatts . . . where the single cell
was tossing off twice that amount with the same load.
Paralleling cells has the effect of paralleling internal
resistance (making it go down) while doubling the chemical
mass (electrical capacity). Given that current in each
internal resistance falls by 1/2, the power dissipated in
each falls to 1/4th the original thus allowing both cells
to deliver more of their content while doubling their total
potential energy as a team. Lowering effective internal
resistance is always a good thing for return on investment
in electro-chemical energy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Strippers are all spoken for. |
Gee guys . . . I didn't expect such a quick response! Thanks.
I'll fill your requests in order received and let the late-comers
know that they were just too late. These strippers are readily
available for only slightly more than what I asked. In fact,
I think they're generally 9.95 in the wild . . . but they
hit you a bit harder for s/h.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strippers are all spoken for. |
On 28 Mar 2008, at 17:38, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> Gee guys . . . I didn't expect such a quick response! Thanks.
> I'll fill your requests in order received and let the late-comers
> know that they were just too late. These strippers are readily
> available for only slightly more than what I asked. In fact,
> I think they're generally 9.95 in the wild . . . but they
> hit you a bit harder for s/h.
The problem is that while there may be some very acceptable strippers
available for $10, there is also a lot of junk for sale too. When
purchasing online, it is hard to tell the jems from the junk. We
trust your judgement, so if you tell us that a particular $10
stripper is a jem, people will buy it to avoid having to deal with junk.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
Hey guys, does anybody out there have an electronic copy of the Collins
Audio Panel (AMR-350) pin-out diagram? If so, can you share it with
me? Thanks!
Michael H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Seccombe" <pjn.racr(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using NC SwitchesElectrical question |
Gentleman,
I have seen this before where someone finds it necessary to
be
able to activate the IDENT function of the transponder from the control
stick. I have to ask: How often does one have to IDENT in one flight,
what
is the chance of activating it accidentally, and just how far would you
really have to reach otherwise?
Robert Seccombe
35 years ATP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AMR-350 pin-out |
>Hey guys, does anybody out there have an electronic copy of the Collins
>Audio Panel (AMR-350) pin-out diagram? If so, can you share it
>with me? Thanks!
>
>Michael H.
>
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strippers are all spoken for. |
>
>On 28 Mar 2008, at 17:38, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>>Gee guys . . . I didn't expect such a quick response! Thanks.
>>I'll fill your requests in order received and let the late-comers
>>know that they were just too late. These strippers are readily
>>available for only slightly more than what I asked. In fact,
>>I think they're generally 9.95 in the wild . . . but they
>>hit you a bit harder for s/h.
>
>The problem is that while there may be some very acceptable strippers
>available for $10, there is also a lot of junk for sale too. When
>purchasing online, it is hard to tell the jems from the junk. We
>trust your judgement, so if you tell us that a particular $10
>stripper is a jem, people will buy it to avoid having to deal with junk.
Understand. Those who missed out on the 'sale' are encouraged
to see:
http://www.gilchrist-electric.com/3-blade-coax-cable-strip.php
These are the folks I bought them from at 25 to 50 at a
whack when we were selling them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker Pop |
>
>
>I am performing my first engine runs with a Jabiru 3300 powered Zenith
>601XL. This is a PM alternator and my wiring is based on the Z16
>architecture using the S704-1 alternator control and crowbar OV
>protection. So far everything is working just fine with one
>exception. Of the 10 or so engine starts I have made, twice I found the
>5A alternator breaker popped. This is the breaker between the main bus
>and the master switch. On both occasions, the engine was at idle and I
>shut it down then re-started it after a few moments. It was after the
>start that I noticed the popped breaker.
>
>I don't know if the breaker popped on shutdown or during the re-start. In
>either case I was able to reset the breaker and all appeared to be OK.
>
>Anybody have any ideas on what is going on here? All the volt and amp
>numbers I have seen are "in the green." Do shutdown or start-ups cause
>nuisance pops?
The crowbar ov protection module has been known to
trip on system noises. I've helped a number of builders
track down a noise source that was irritating the
OVM-14. How long have you had your OV module? There
were some changes about 4-5 years ago that made them
more resistant to all but the worst noises.
This is a pretty rare condition. It could also
be that your particular OVM has a problem. You
can send it to me for a checkout and update too
if you've had it a very long time.
I've not built and sold these for about 6 years
but I can help you tame the little beast.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
I'm installing a Shadin ADC-200 to display air-data/fuel-flow on my
Garmin
GPS-400. Does anybody know if the ADC-200 will accept OAT information
from
my already-installed Davtron M307FC or will I have to install a separate
OAT
probe? Also, does anybody know which fuel flow sensors are compatible
with
the ADC-200 (my aircraft has a Lycoming O-360 and a 28v electrical
system).
Thanks, Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Breaker Pop |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Bob,
I have purchased all of my electrical parts since September so barring any of it
sitting on B&C's shelves for a long time, everything should be fairly new.
I have not had the chance to go over the system wire-by-wire yet. I will report
back after I have had the chance.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173387#173387
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Strippers are all spoken for. |
Geez, I go out of town for a few days and the List turns to debauchery!
Bob, you better hope Dee doesn't hear about this!
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup! |
Dear Listers,
I've added two new Email Lists to the Matronics List and Forum lineup today. These
include the Rans-List and RV12-List. Please surf over to the Matronics List
Subscription page and sign up for these new Lists if they are of interest
to you:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Full support on the Forums, List Browse, Archives, etc. is available.
Rans-List:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rans-List
RV12-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV12-List
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Adding to your bag of tricks . . . |
I put new laminated hardwood flooring down in our house
about a year ago. I added quite a pile of cut-offs and left
over pieces to my pile of skunk-werks materials in
the shop.
In the interim I've found a number of instances where
this material proved handy and quite capable to a variety
of tasks. It's quite hard . . . almost machineable.
I've used it to assemble small enclosures for electronics.
At .320" thick the edges are wide enough to fabricate
good glue joints for assembling. E6000 works good here.
I've also drilled the edges to glue threaded metal
spacers for attaching edge-on with machine screws.
The wood grain finish is a bit quaint for enclosures
but attractive and certainly resistant to scratches.
IT IS FLOORING after all. I put the finishing touches
on my junk box environmental chamber last night with
this flooring. The chamber came without a top
closure panel.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Temperature_Chamber_1.jpg
This picture was taken before the countersunk,
flat-heads were installed to hold the lid on. It's
quite rigid and will support any test equipment
I might place on top.
You can lock pieces of this stuff together (glue
in the joints before final assembly) and make
virtually any size flat sheet desired. Make sure it's
well mated and laying absolutely flat while the
glue dries. It's a bit heavy (1.5# sq/ft) but
IT IS FLOORING after all. I use black magic
marker to finish cut edges.
It's hell-for-stout in longitudinal bending . . .
obviously, glue joints are the weakest link
for bending across the joints.
I've used small scraps for various fixtures and
as small parts in assemblies (like corner gussets).
Stores like Big Lots carry boxes of this stuff
at pretty attractive prices (avoid flooring with
foam backing already bonded on). When my scrap pile
no longer addresses my needs, I'll have no problem
going out to buy another box just to cut up!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Splicing was (oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?) |
In a message dated 3/26/2008 5:33:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
hooverra(at)verizon.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RALPH HOOVER"
Bob,
Although I have been splicing wire for 45 years I prefer #1 no
splices, #2 properly crimped gas tight connectors, or #3 strain relieved
connections soldered to a terminal #4 would be a mid span splice. In most
cases I will install a connector mid wire run if it may need to be broken
for service, or ease of assembly. That said the fewer connections the less
likelihood for failure. In the case of the alternator connector any splice
adds mass that is hanging a few inches from the connector that then must be
supported to prevent it moving in relation to the alternator and breaking
the wiring. Yes it's doable but in keeping with KISS I just used the proper
terminal as designed.
And yes I did splice a few wires mid span in my project, no I didn't
need to but I just got lazy and didn't want to pull a longer wire. They
will outlast both me and the plane. No worries, the electrons don't know the
difference. :)
Thanks for all you do, we have all learned a lot.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RALPH HOOVER"
>
>D,
> I had the same issue and bought a roll of AMP tin plated for 18-22
>AWG wire.
>DigiKey P/N A27933CT-ND
>AMP P/N 60295-2
>If these will help send me your address off list and I will mail you a few.
>I bought 100 and needed 3 :( I just couldn't think of butt splices on the
>Alternator wires.
Why butt splice? You can do a very compact, robust solder
splice. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Sp
lices.html
Bob . . .
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Piavis <jpiavis(at)microsoft.com> |
| Subject: | Connecting External Power Supply |
Guys,
For an external power supply such as Samlex 1223, if this is connected at t
he alternator, I assume the + lead can be connected directly to the B-lead.
Does the - lead just connect to the engine or any common ground to simulat
e the alternator power?
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any Ray Allen LED Dimming Circuit ideas? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> Panel is all wired up, just some fine tuning. One item is that the Ray Allen
LED trim indicators are too bright when switched to ? brightness.
>
> I have scanned the net for a way to convert them to a linear dimming range but
have found nothing. I am at point of installing a switch to turn them off except
when needed. Vince H. Idaho RV-8
The LM3914 Bar Graph Driver chip used by RAC/MAC is a clever little device. But
it has its limitations too. Usually people don't complain about the bright "Day"
output, since most airplanes have too much sun in them anyway. But if you
want to dim the bright output, you can add a 28K or so (a 50k 10-turn pot might
be nice) between the white lead and +, instead of being left open.
The "Night" output is connected to + directly, but there is a design limitation
to be understood...since the driver for the LEDs are in the chip, there is a
limit to the dynamic range that can be programmed. 10 to 1 is all you can get
by ordinary means. The "Night" output brightness is about at the bottom now,
so you can't get more dim.
"A witty saying proves nothing"
--Voltaire
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173937#173937
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Lanfear" <hlanfear(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | E-Buss diode vs. Switch |
I am planning to follow Aeroelectric's Z13 / 8 diagram; but as I've
started wiring, I was looking at the diode that separates the e-buss
from the main buss. In use, the diode allows power to flow from the
main to the e-buss in normal use. However, should the main buss fail,
the pilot 'flips' a switch to allow power to flow from the Battery buss
to the e-buss and power cannot feed the main buss because of the diode.
My question is this; why not eliminate the diode and replace the on-off
switch with an on-on switch so power is fed either from the Battery Buss
or the Main Buss but never both? Either way the pilot manually changes
the switch and the diode is not needed (and you eliminate any voltage
reduction due to the diode). Apparently I'm missing something, can
somewhat explain what that is? Thanks much, Harold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Buss diode vs. Switch |
The purpose of the E-bus is to be able to achieve a rapid load reduction in
case of either alternator failure, main battery contactor failure, or a
stuck starter. To understand the need for the diode approach, you need to
examine your switching alternatives and the effect on running equipment
under each scenario if you use a switch instead of a diode.
For example, if the alternator has failed, which will normally be deduced
from falling voltage, you will need to switch THREE switches (alternate feed
ON, contactor OFF, inter-bus OFF) to get to the load reduction -- otherwise
the alternate feed will back feed the main bus. If you switch in the wrong
sequence (harder to avoid with three) you may also shut down and/or reboot
gear you'd, uh, rather keep running. :-) Either way, that's "suboptimal".
If the main battery contactor fails, you still have three switches to throw
to be sure you're settling things down, and if you don't flip three or are
unsure of the problem, you are still feeding current to the downstream side
of a battery contactor that is at best in an uncertain condition. If you
have a stuck starter (whether contactor or motor) you''re back to having to
flip three switches.
The voltage drop associated with the diode is a minimal price to pay for the
simplicity and reliability of the diode approach. Note that when you have
feed through the main bus and diode, you're going to be running with the
alternator/regulator in play anyway, and by definition should have more than
adequate of voltage even through the diode. Further, that voltage drop can
be greatly minimized to the point of being inconsequential by using a
Schottky diode, such as those available from Perihelion.
Bottom line, the voltage drop issue only exists when you have an alternator
anyway, it can be minimized by using a Schottky, and you will have fewer
switches to maintain, and flip.
Ron
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Harold Lanfear
wrote:
> I am planning to follow Aeroelectric's Z13 / 8 diagram; but as I've
> started wiring, I was looking at the diode that separates the e-buss from
> the main buss. In use, the diode allows power to flow from the main to the
> e-buss in normal use. However, should the main buss fail, the pilot 'flips'
> a switch to allow power to flow from the Battery buss to the e-buss and
> power cannot feed the main buss because of the diode.
>
> My question is this; why not eliminate the diode and replace the on-off
> switch with an on-on switch so power is fed either from the Battery Buss or
> the Main Buss but never both? Either way the pilot manually changes the
> switch and the diode is not needed (and you eliminate any voltage reduction
> due to the diode). Apparently I'm missing something, can somewhat explain
> what that is? Thanks much, Harold
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi(at)conwaycorp.net> |
I'm working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
for the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three
pins for a 14V install: two for "Lighting Bus Low" (pins 28 and 32) and
one "14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from
the installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced?
More specifically, what is a "LO" source? Is the "14 V DC Panel
Lighting Bus" the dimmer switch? .or am I wrong on both counts? Is
there something else that I'm missing? This will be a VFR installation.
Thanks,
Michael H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Large Gauge Wire Crimper |
| From: | <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> |
I saw this under homemade tools for a Volvo.
Ron Parigoris
Large Gauge Wire Crimper. [Tip from Tom Harper] Ever needed to get a
solidly crimped electrical terminal on larger cables (8 - 4 gauge), but
found the cost of crimp tools in that size to cause "sticker shock"?
Here's something I've been doing - it works for UNinsulated terminals.
1. Measure the OD of the uninsulated terminal barrel you need to crimp
2. Find (or buy - a dime or so) a nut with a thread size (thread OD - not
ID) equal to or slightly smaller than the size in step 1
3. Drill out the nut to match the terminal OD
4. Cut the nut in half, across opposing corners (NOT across the flats).
Your Dremel tool will come in handy for this - a hacksaw will do it also,
just takes more time.
5. Find a piece of round stock about 1/8" - 3/16" (3-4 mm) diameter, about
3/8" (1 cm) long (you can cut the head off a screw for this - the threads
won't affect anything.) You now have a "saddle" and a "punch" (halved
nut & screw/round stock piece).
6. Put the terminal in the "saddle", and the "punch" lying lengthwise on
top of the terminal, opposite the "saddle" - you'll probably want to tape
the assembly together, otherwise it takes 3 or 4 hands.
7. Put the cable end into the terminal, and crimp the whole works together
using a bench vise, Vise-Grips, or equivalent. The "saddle" supports the
bottom of the terminal, while the "punch" crimps everything nice & tight.
I've gotten really tight & secure crimps on up to 4 gauge cable by hand
with this method. After a dozen or so uses, the nut may crack & start to
spread; no problem, since you have the other half, and making new
"saddles" is easy & cheap anyway.
Make sure your terminal barrel ID is close to the wire OD - this method
doesn't do too well if there's a lot of empty space between the wire and
the terminal. You may be a bit clumsy at first, but once you work out a
way to keep everything aligned as you start the crimp, it'll go really
well. The new Vice-Grip adjustable wrench is ideal for this - the
"V"-shaped jaw is ideal for supporting the "saddle".
Volvo content - used this trick yesterday when making some "overkill" (4
gauge) engine-to-body ground and alternator-to-starter terminal cables.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Edgar" <iredgar(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN90B Lighting |
Michael,
I suspect the LO connections are just panel lighting grounds and HI is
supply voltage for your panel lighting. There may be other opinions on this
.
As an aside, I've just bought a used KLN90B and I'm looking for instal/user
manuals. Any chance of copies or links to same?
thanks, Ian - in Canberra
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Michael Hinchcliff
wrote:
> I'm working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
> for the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three pin
s
> for a 14V install: two for "Lighting Bus Low" (pins 28 and 32) and one
> "14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from the
> installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced? More
> specifically, what is a "LO" source? Is the "14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus
"
> the dimmer switch? =85or am I wrong on both counts? Is there something
> else that I'm missing? This will be a VFR installation.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Michael H.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN90B Lighting |
>Im working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions for
>the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three pins for
>a 14V install: two for Lighting Bus Low (pins 28 and 32) and one 14 V
>DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from the
>installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced? More
>specifically, what is a LO source? Is the 14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus
>the dimmer switch? or am I wrong on both counts? Is there something
>else that Im missing? This will be a VFR installation.'
There are two strings of 14v lights in series. The
14V wiring grounds the top end of the 28V string
and drives the center with the two ends in parallel.
For 28V, the 14V center tap is left open and one
of the 14V "lo" connections becomes the 28V
lighting load.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Buss diode vs. Switch |
>I am planning to follow Aeroelectric's Z13 / 8 diagram; but as I've
>started wiring, I was looking at the diode that separates the e-buss from
>the main buss. In use, the diode allows power to flow from the main to
>the e-buss in normal use. However, should the main buss fail, the pilot
>'flips' a switch to allow power to flow from the Battery buss to the
>e-buss and power cannot feed the main buss because of the diode.
>
>My question is this; why not eliminate the diode and replace the on-off
>switch with an on-on switch so power is fed either from the Battery Buss
>or the Main Buss but never both? Either way the pilot manually changes
>the switch and the diode is not needed (and you eliminate any voltage
>reduction due to the diode). Apparently I'm missing something, can
>somewhat explain what that is? Thanks
Voltage drop in diode is not significant. Use of
single switch offers a single point of failure for
BOTH power paths to the e-bus. Recommend you wire
as depicted.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connecting External Power Supply |
>Guys,
>
>
>For an external power supply such as Samlex 1223, if this is connected at
>the alternator, I assume the + lead can be connected directly to the
>B-lead. Does the lead just connect to the engine or any common ground to
>simulate the alternator power?
Yes.
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Buss diode vs. Switch |
>The purpose of the E-bus is to be able to achieve a rapid load reduction
>in case of either alternator failure, main battery contactor failure, or a
>stuck starter. To understand the need for the diode approach, you need to
>examine your switching alternatives and the effect on running equipment
>under each scenario if you use a switch instead of a diode.
>
>For example, if the alternator has failed, which will normally be deduced
>from falling voltage, you will need to switch THREE switches (alternate
>feed ON, contactor OFF, inter-bus OFF) to get to the load reduction --
>otherwise the alternate feed will back feed the main bus. If you switch in
>the wrong sequence (harder to avoid with three) you may also shut down
>and/or reboot gear you'd, uh, rather keep running. :-) Either way, that's
>"suboptimal".
>
>If the main battery contactor fails, you still have three switches to
>throw to be sure you're settling things down, and if you don't flip three
>or are unsure of the problem, you are still feeding current to the
>downstream side of a battery contactor that is at best in an uncertain
>condition. If you have a stuck starter (whether contactor or motor)
>you''re back to having to flip three switches.
>
>The voltage drop associated with the diode is a minimal price to pay for
>the simplicity and reliability of the diode approach. Note that when you
>have feed through the main bus and diode, you're going to be running with
>the alternator/regulator in play anyway, and by definition should have
>more than adequate of voltage even through the diode. Further, that
>voltage drop can be greatly minimized to the point of being
>inconsequential by using a Schottky diode, such as those available from
>Perihelion.
>
>Bottom line, the voltage drop issue only exists when you have an
>alternator anyway, it can be minimized by using a Schottky, and you will
>have fewer switches to maintain, and flip.
>
>Ron
Excellent treatise on the subject sir . . .
Bob . . .
>On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Harold Lanfear
><hlanfear(at)verizon.net> wrote:
>>I am planning to follow Aeroelectric's Z13 / 8 diagram; but as I've
>>started wiring, I was looking at the diode that separates the e-buss from
>>the main buss. In use, the diode allows power to flow from the main to
>>the e-buss in normal use. However, should the main buss fail, the pilot
>>'flips' a switch to allow power to flow from the Battery buss to the
>>e-buss and power cannot feed the main buss because of the diode.
>>
>>My question is this; why not eliminate the diode and replace the on-off
>>switch with an on-on switch so power is fed either from the Battery Buss
>>or the Main Buss but never both? Either way the pilot manually changes
>>the switch and the diode is not needed (and you eliminate any voltage
>>reduction due to the diode). Apparently I'm missing something, can
>>somewhat explain what that is? Thanks much, Harold
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Off line for a few days. |
I'm climbing into the big iron bird tomorrow morning to join
my co-conspirators at the facilities of a couple of clients.
Then instead of coming straight home I'll be joining Dr. Dee
in KC for some goof-off time. There's a really good Mexican
restaurant and a couple of good BBQ places we plan to
visit!
Be back Sunday.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Ricciotti" <gfr56(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KLN90B Lighting |
An avionics guy explained to that Low is another word for ground. My
icom and ps engineering audio panel used the same terms and that is how
I wired them.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Hinchcliff
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: KLN90B Lighting
I'm working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
for the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three
pins for a 14V install: two for "Lighting Bus Low" (pins 28 and 32) and
one "14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from
the installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced?
More specifically, what is a "LO" source? Is the "14 V DC Panel
Lighting Bus" the dimmer switch? .or am I wrong on both counts? Is
there something else that I'm missing? This will be a VFR installation.
Thanks,
Michael H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Off line for a few days. |
Bob,
If you are in KC on Thurs, I can highly recommend Tanners (sports bar) on
Broadway for some EXCELLENT fillet mignon and fried shrimp. Decent salad
and baked potato, too. For 10 bucks (2004 dollars) you can't beat it!
Enjoy, Don
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:49 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off line for a few days.
>
>
>
> I'm climbing into the big iron bird tomorrow morning to join
> my co-conspirators at the facilities of a couple of clients.
> Then instead of coming straight home I'll be joining Dr. Dee
> in KC for some goof-off time. There's a really good Mexican
> restaurant and a couple of good BBQ places we plan to
> visit!
>
> Be back Sunday.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
Ian,
Your are correct!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Edgar
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KLN90B Lighting
Michael,
I suspect the LO connections are just panel lighting grounds and HI is
supply voltage for your panel lighting. There may be other opinions on
this.
As an aside, I've just bought a used KLN90B and I'm looking for
instal/user manuals. Any chance of copies or links to same?
thanks, Ian - in Canberra
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Michael Hinchcliff wrote:
I'm working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
for the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three
pins for a 14V install: two for "Lighting Bus Low" (pins 28 and 32) and
one "14 V DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from
the installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced?
More specifically, what is a "LO" source? Is the "14 V DC Panel
Lighting Bus" the dimmer switch? =85or am I wrong on both counts? Is
there something else that I'm missing? This will be a VFR installation.
Thanks,
Michael H.
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
Bob,
No offence, but based on the writing of the original post, I think your
reply will be considered more confusing then the King notes on the
drawing. Just having a little fun!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KLN90B Lighting
>Im working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
for
>the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three pins
for
>a 14V install: two for Lighting Bus Low (pins 28 and 32) and one 14
V
>DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17 from the
>installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced?
More
>specifically, what is a LO source? Is the 14 V DC Panel Lighting
Bus
>the dimmer switch? or am I wrong on both counts? Is there something
>else that Im missing? This will be a VFR installation.'
There are two strings of 14v lights in series. The
14V wiring grounds the top end of the 28V string
and drives the center with the two ends in parallel.
For 28V, the 14V center tap is left open and one
of the 14V "lo" connections becomes the 28V
lighting load.
Bob . . .
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
Jerry,
Also correct. 14v = Positive (HI) pin 29. Bus ground (LO) pin 28 &
32.
28v = Positive (Hi) pin 28. Bus ground (LO) pin 32
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
Ricciotti
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KLN90B Lighting
An avionics guy explained to that Low is another word for ground. My
icom and ps engineering audio panel used the same terms and that is how
I wired them.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:cfi(at)conwaycorp.net"Michael Hinchcliff
"mailto:aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com"aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:01 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: KLN90B Lighting
I=92m working on the wiring harness for my KLN90B GPS. The instructions
for the lighting circuits are not 100% clear to me. There are three
pins for a 14V install: two for =93Lighting Bus Low=94 (pins 28 and 32)
and
one =9314 V DC Panel Lighting Bus"/HI (pin 29) (figures 2-1 and 2-17
from
the installation manual are attached). Where should these be sourced?
More specifically, what is a =93LO=94 source? Is the =9314 V DC Panel
Lighting Bus=94 the dimmer switch? =85or am I wrong on both counts?
Is
there something else that I=92m missing? This will be a VFR
installation.
Thanks,
Michael H.
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Listers: anyone using Vans LED light strip part number "LC LED STRIP RED"
or something similar that can tell me how it is that these can be cut to
length and not have to put any voltage dropping resistors in series with the
strip?
Marty in Brentwood TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Transponder for sale |
Hey listers
I just listed a transponder for sale on ebay.
You can see it (and place bids) here
<http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=626608286&site=0&ver=LCA0808
05&item=230238620596&lk=URL>
http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=626608286&site=0&ver=LCA08080
5&item=230238620596&lk=URL
It is a NARCO AT-155 transponder I had purchased for my RV-9A , but decided
not to install because mode S became obligatory in Europe.
Cheers
Carlos Trigo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Butler" <andrewbutler(at)ireland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale |
Hey Carlos,
I am having trouble finding a Mode S that won't break the bank, and it is
nigh on impossible to source a Garmin GTX328 that you can install
yourself. What brand are you looking at and from where?
Cheers, Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Trigo"
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder for sale
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:39:00 +0100
Hey listers
I just listed a transponder for sale on ebay.
You can see it (and place bids) here
http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=626608286&site=0&ver
=LCA080805&item=230238620596&lk=URL
It is a NARCO AT-155 transponder I had purchased for my RV-9A , but
decided not to install because mode S became obligatory in Europe.
Cheers
Carlos Trigo
===========
========
===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale |
All mode-S transponders are insanely expensive. I got mine (Filser
TRT800) for the low, low price of 1850 Euro but that was during a
special offer through Lambert Aircraft in Belgium.
I'm hearing from other pilots that there are lead times of several
months on any brand mode-S transponder. In The Netherlands these are
mandatory as of last tuesday, but apparently due to the shortage, local
authorities will go easy on us until july 1st.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Butler
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder for sale
Hey Carlos,
I am having trouble finding a Mode S that won't break the bank, and it
is nigh on impossible to source a Garmin GTX328 that you can install
yourself. What brand are you looking at and from where?
Cheers, Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Trigo"
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder for sale
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:39:00 +0100
Hey listers
I just listed a transponder for sale on ebay.
You can see it (and place bids) here
http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=626608286&site=0&ver=
LCA080805&item=230238620596&lk=URL
It is a NARCO AT-155 transponder I had purchased for my RV-9A , but
decided not to install because mode S became obligatory in Europe.
Cheers
Carlos Trigo
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Mark,
Do you still have any firewall passthroughs you want to sell/
The static port
The static ports you sold me were great!
Peter Laurence
Please respond to both email addresses.
plaurence@the-beach.net
dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org
Thanks again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
Mode S is mandatory in Europe? Mode S is already obsolete in the USA.
They are fighting for the next gen transponder (that will be even more expensive).
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080304ads-b.html
The fact is Mode S does not do anything more for general aviation. Even as a
technology its based on OLD technology. So for the USA take a wait see attitude.
I find it draconian that the Euro authorities mandated this. Well may be better
than being in limbo as the USA fights. However for USA fliers hang on to your
Mode C transponder it does all you need, position and altitude, probably for
another 20 years or more. I love how the USA gave into METARS and WX reports
with french words like "fume" in weather reports. Now they are just issuing unilateral
rules, country by country. Some countries have even mandated 406 ELT's.
So you don't have one you can't fly there. They will actually ground the plane
and make you install one, I've been told. I fly international.
Yes the future is sunny with data links and other fancy things, all mean nothing
to me in my RV-7. I have 1970's technology, a tube TDR950 Collins. Actually
I have two of them. I bought both off eBay, ones a spare. I think with both
I have $500 into it, including antenna. That is progress!
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Source for a VHF Diplexer Splitter |
I need to split my one nav antenna into both a nav and glide slope receiver.
Where can I find an inexpensive splitter?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for a VHF Diplexer Splitter |
Bill,
<< I need to split my one nav antenna into both a nav and glide
slope receiver. Where can I find an inexpensive splitter? >>
Jim Weir of RST Engineering suggests a series resonant circuit
composed of a 10pf capacitor and a total of 1 inch of lead length.
You can build the splitter with a small project box, two short
lengths of co-axial cable with BNC plugs on one end and a BNC
jack. Run one cable through a grommet on one side of the box to
the jack on the other side. Connect the shield by forming two
pigtails. This cable goes to the VOR. Run the other cable
through a second grommet. Strip off 1/2 inch of outer
insulation, shield and inner insulation. Put some heat shrink
over the cable. Cut one lead of the capacitor to 1/2 inch and
solder it along the cable center conductor. Make sure the shield
is well trimmed and can't touch the center conductor. Insulate
with the heat shrink tube. This cable will go to the Glide Slope.
Put 1/2 inch of insulation on the other lead of the capacitor.
Wrap the other capacitor lead around the center post of the BNC
jack with no lead showing beyond the insulation and solder.
Ty-wrap the cables together and just inside the grommet to
prevent pulling on the connections.
This is what I'm doing for the KX-155 in my Sportsman. Can't get
much simpler or cheaper.
Tom Kuffel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com" <earl_schroeder(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Source for a VHF Diplexer Splitter |
Bill, if you want to 'roll your own', try www.rst-engr.com I made one and it works. Otherwise, check Chief aircraft for low pricing. Earl
-- "Bill Bradburry" wrote:
I need to split my one nav antenna into both a nav and glide slope receiver.
Where can I find an inexpensive splitter?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
Well, Mode S is not mandatory in all European airspace, although if you
fly IFR it is. There=92s still plenty of sky where no transponder at all
is required, or radio for that matter ' at least for the time being.
What=92s an ELT (not required in the UK)? That=92s the wonderful thing
about
Europe ' common rules across all of the EU ;)
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Sent: 04 April 2008 22:52
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder for sale (mode S)
Mode S is mandatory in Europe? Mode S is already obsolete in the USA.
They are fighting for the next gen transponder (that will be even more
expensive).
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080304ads-b.html
The fact is Mode S does not do anything more for general aviation. Even
as a technology its based on OLD technology. So for the USA take a wait
see attitude.
I find it draconian that the Euro authorities mandated this. Well may be
better than being in limbo as the USA fights. However for USA fliers
hang on to your Mode C transponder it does all you need, position and
altitude, probably for another 20 years or more. I love how the USA gave
into METARS and WX reports with french words like "fum=E9e" in weather
reports. Now they are just issuing unilateral rules, country by country.
Some countries have even mandated 406 ELT's. So you don't have one you
can't fly there. They will actually ground the plane and make you
install one, I've been told. I fly international.
Yes the future is sunny with data links and other fancy things, all mean
nothing to me in my RV-7. I have 1970's technology, a tube TDR950
Collins. Actually I have two of them. I bought both off eBay, ones a
spare. I think with both I have $500 into it, including antenna. That is
progress!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Mode S is mandatory in Europe? Mode S is already obsolete in the USA.
> They are fighting for the next gen transponder (that will be even more
> expensive).
>
> http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080304ads-b.html
>
> The fact is Mode S does not do anything more for general aviation. Even
> as a technology its based on OLD technology. So for the USA take a wait
> see attitude.
>
>
I find it amazing that a group of volunteers can develop a $200 laptop
to distribute to children in third world countries that, as only one
small part of the project, includes a mesh network technology that
allows them configure themselves to talk to one another on the fly. A
GPS signal (another $100) and a shared database (a correspondingly cheap
FAA controlled ground-station) gives a complete information sharing system.
Yet, we have a local representative advocating a "low-cost" ADS-B system
that would cost around $3,000. It is simply freaking ridiculous how
"those that know more than we do" continue to settle on technologies
that are outdated and controlled by entrenched commercial interest to
the detriment of us all.
--
http://www.ronpaultimeline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 04/05/08 |
><< I need to split my one nav antenna into both a nav and glide
>slope receiver. Where can I find an inexpensive splitter? >>
>
You could also contact Wentworth Aircraft. They have a huge supply of salvaged
bits and pieces for pretty cheap.
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 24-Pole Relay Needed |
I need a couple of 24-pole relays for an avionics project. Would anyone
have a spare MD41-248 or MD41-24P they'd be willing to sell?
Thanks,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 24-Pole Relay Needed |
>
>
>I need a couple of 24-pole relays for an avionics project. Would anyone
>have a spare MD41-248 or MD41-24P they d be willing to sell?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Don
Sounds like you MIGHT be crafting a switching box for
sharing a single set of displays with multiple receivers.
The last time I needed that many poles I built an
etched circuit board to hold 12 dpdt minature relays.
If your search for single relay doesn't work out,
I can probably find the artwork I laid out for the
multiple relay assembly. You can order a batch of
3 boards for $59.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 24-Pole Relay Needed |
Perihelion Design sells an 18 pole relay to use as an 18-Pole CDI Switcher
for VOR/GPS Receiver.
It is $150 I think...
http://www.periheliondesign.com/18polerelays.htm
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24-Pole Relay Needed
-->
>
>
>I need a couple of 24-pole relays for an avionics project. Would
>anyone have a spare MD41-248 or MD41-24P they d be willing to sell?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Don
Sounds like you MIGHT be crafting a switching box for
sharing a single set of displays with multiple receivers.
The last time I needed that many poles I built an
etched circuit board to hold 12 dpdt minature relays.
If your search for single relay doesn't work out,
I can probably find the artwork I laid out for the
multiple relay assembly. You can order a batch of
3 boards for $59.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | 24-Pole Relay Needed |
4/7/2008
Hello Don, You can find them here:
http://www.sandia.aero/?q=system/files/MARC70Relays11-18-04.pdf
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Don Curry" <currydon(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24-Pole Relay Needed
I need a couple of 24-pole relays for an avionics project. Would anyone
have a spare MD41-248 or MD41-24P they'd be willing to sell?
Thanks,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Jenson <george(at)georgejenson.com> |
| Subject: | Fat Wires & Brass vs. Copper |
Bob & Listers,
I'm finishing up the contactor mounting/wiring on my RV-7 firewall and
about to make and mount the ground busses and ground pass-through.
I'm planning on 2AWG welding cable for both battery cables, the starter
cable, and the engine to firewall ground bus. Is this OK or should I use a
braided strap for the engine to firewall ground?
This leaves the Alternator B-Lead. 2AWG is overkill but convenient to buy
and use. However, would I be better off downsizing it to a smaller gauge
welding cable? I'm planning on a 60amp Plane Power alternator.
I can get brass plate and bar easily and cheaply. Is it practically /
functionally equivalent to copper for the main contactor to starter
contactor bar? Same for the bar to connect the current limiter? Van's specs
out .125 x .5 for the first and there is no spec for the second but I plan
on .063 x .5 for it. Will those work in brass?
I've already sourced two copper bars that are a bit thinner (.050) that are
perfect size for each side of the firewall for the ground busses. I'm
planning on soldering brass tabs onto them and mounting them with brass
bolts through them for the fat wires? Is this OK?
I've summarized these 5 questions below, and I appreciate the help. Other
questions following in separate threads.
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7
Summary - 5 questions:
1. 2AWG welding cable OK for engine to firewall ground in lieu of braid?
2. 2AWG welding cable OK for 60amp PP alternator b-lead or should I downsize?
3. .125 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to contactor run (Van's specs same
size but Copper)?
4. .063 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to current limiter (no starter
current)?
5. .050 x .75 x 5 copper bars/straps on either side of firewall, each
soldered with brass tabs, with 3/16 brass bolts as ground setup OK?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fat Wires & Brass vs. Copper |
>
>
>
>Bob & Listers,
>
>I'm finishing up the contactor mounting/wiring on my RV-7 firewall and
>about to make and mount the ground busses and ground pass-through.
>
>I'm planning on 2AWG welding cable for both battery cables, the starter
>cable, and the engine to firewall ground bus. Is this OK or should I use a
>braided strap for the engine to firewall ground?
The welding cable is sufficiently fine/flexible to
serve well as a crankcase ground jumper.
>This leaves the Alternator B-Lead. 2AWG is overkill but convenient to buy
>and use. However, would I be better off downsizing it to a smaller gauge
>welding cable? I'm planning on a 60amp Plane Power alternator.
In an RV . . . 4AWG is fine for all fat wires.
2AWG is indicated on plastic canard pushers and
some rear-battery installations in metal airplanes.
>I can get brass plate and bar easily and cheaply. Is it practically /
>functionally equivalent to copper for the main contactor to starter
>contactor bar? Same for the bar to connect the current limiter? Van's
>specs out .125 x .5 for the first and there is no spec for the second but
>I plan on .063 x .5 for it. Will those work in brass?
.063 is plenty good and brass is easier to
work with than copper which is exceedingly
soft and hard to drill.
>I've already sourced two copper bars that are a bit thinner (.050) that
>are perfect size for each side of the firewall for the ground busses. I'm
>planning on soldering brass tabs onto them and mounting them with brass
>bolts through them for the fat wires? Is this OK?
Sure . . . but go with brass. Check out local
hardware/hobby stores for K&S Engineering
displays like:
http://www.ksmetals.com/HobbyMerchandisers/metal_center.asp?Title=Hobby_Merchandisers
They will stock some .032 brass sheet that is
fine for crafting the short jumper straps between
contactors, limiter mounts, etc. Make the 5/8" wide
or so and thinner. Easier to work with . . .
>I've summarized these 5 questions below, and I appreciate the help. Other
>questions following in separate threads.
>
>George Jenson
>Tucson, AZ
>RV-7
>
>Summary - 5 questions:
>1. 2AWG welding cable OK for engine to firewall ground in lieu of braid?
>2. 2AWG welding cable OK for 60amp PP alternator b-lead or should I downsize?
Go 4AWG throughout . . .
>3. .125 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to contactor run (Van's specs same
>size but Copper)?
>4. .063 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to current limiter (no starter
>current)?
>5. .050 x .75 x 5 copper bars/straps on either side of firewall, each
>soldered with brass tabs, with 3/16 brass bolts as ground setup OK?
Go .032 brass for all and at LEAST 5/16 or better
yet 3/8" brass bolts for fat-wire terminals. Torque
to 80+ percent of maximum for the materials and thread
sizes. Check AC43.13 for values.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Jenson <george(at)georgejenson.com> |
Bob & Listers,
I have a used PM3000 stereo intercom for my RV-7. I am intending to wire
two stereo signals, a Garmin 496 and a 1/8" panel jack, through a 4PDT
switch into the intercom's entertainment input. This input mutes when there
is other activity and allows for pilot isolation. That is the easy part.
The more complicated part is how to handle all the mono signals:
1. Comm1 - Panel mounted, probably a Garmin 480 or a 430w
2. Comm2 - Icom A6 handheld in a panel dock
(I have a 4PDT switch for these two to switch the intercom's transmit output)
3. Nav1 - Garmin 480 or 430w
4. EIS - GRT EIS has audio, and it is the likely candidate.
5. EFIS (?) - Some EFIS's output audio so this is a possibility
6. Garmin 496 Voice Output (?) - Not sure if I need to use this if the
stereo output is attached, though I'd rather have warnings come through an
unmutable (immutable?) input and I'd like to still get 496 audio warnings
if I happen to be listening to an mp3 player.
So that's 4 for sure, 5 likely, and perhaps 6, mono signals for the PM3000,
which has one mono input. Further, the mono input of the PM3000 is supposed
to come after the Aux headset jack. That jack is supposed to be installed
between the Comm radio and the intercom, and from a SHTF perspective, that
makes great sense.
Note that I don't need nor want any of those inputs switched nor do any
need added volume controls. Simple is as simple does, and I'm a simple
(minded) guy.
My current plan is build an audio isolation amp per Bob's plans and route
the output of that into the Aux jack and then into the PM3000.
1. Is this OK or should I put the isolation amp between the Aux jack and
the PM3000 so that the primary comm goes to the Aux jack first, then to the
isolation amp? If the SHTF, I would think that having the Aux jack
immediately after Comm1 might be more betterer, though I would lose all the
other audio. If the audio iso amp is so robust as to be a likely survivor
of most failure modes, then perhaps having the Aux jack on the output side
of it but before the intercom is best. What are your thoughts?
2. If I build the isolation amp per the mono schematics (1.8 an 1.8.1)
there appear to be sufficient inputs and others can even be added (with a
little breading of Bob's circuit board). However they both show only one
input going to pin 3 of U115 and the rest going to pin 2. Does it matter or
should the number of inputs be balanced between those two pins? Or, should
they all go to pin 2 as none of the inputs are a single channel of a stereo
signal? I confess my understanding of how that circuit actually works is
minimal.
3. Is there a chance that this can all be done without the iso amp? I sorta
figured that after about 2 mono signals you pretty well need the iso amp,
but I wanted to confirm that.
Finally Bob, assuming I do need an iso amp, I'd like to order one of your
remaining circuit boards for it. Please advise how I should do so. I was a
teenage ham radio operator and worked in an two-way radio factory during my
youth so I'm very comfortable soldering and building projects.
Thanks in advance,
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vernon Little" <rv-9a-online(at)telus.net> |
George:
I think I can help.
Today, I signed off for proto release on a new aviation audio product called
the AMX-2A Audio Mixer Amplifier.
It takes 10 monophonic audio sources, isolates and amplifies them into one
output. Sort of like Bob's isolation amplifier, but more inputs, mono only
and much smaller package.
Four of the audio inputs have volume controls to allow the adjustment of
audio levels from instruments that have no controls (e.g. Dynon EFIS). The
other six inputs are fixed level, assuming that you have source control of
the audio level from them (e.g. Comms, Traffic Monitors). All inputs are
10K ohm impedance.
The output can be connected into the aux audio input on an intercom. If
your intercom does not support aux inputs (Such as Sigtronics types), the
output can be wired directly into the headphone bus. Both mono and stereo
headphone buses are supported.
All of this is contained in a small package, with a 25-pin D-sub connector
(10 inputs, 2 outputs, power and 12 grounds). In fact, it's so small that
the entire unit mounts in a D-sub backshell.
I don't want to compete with Bob's isolation amplifier (after all it's his
site), but I think he offers it more as a public service than a profit
center. In that spirit, If Bob objects, I will back off.
Documentation is pending, but I can send a pinout pretty quickly.
Thanks, Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Jenson
Sent: April 7, 2008 2:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: PM3000 Wiring
-->
Bob & Listers,
I have a used PM3000 stereo intercom for my RV-7. I am intending to wire
two stereo signals, a Garmin 496 and a 1/8" panel jack, through a 4PDT
switch into the intercom's entertainment input. This input mutes when there
is other activity and allows for pilot isolation. That is the easy part.
The more complicated part is how to handle all the mono signals: 1. Comm1 -
Panel mounted, probably a Garmin 480 or a 430w 2. Comm2 - Icom A6 handheld
in a panel dock (I have a 4PDT switch for these two to switch the intercom's
transmit output) 3. Nav1 - Garmin 480 or 430w 4. EIS - GRT EIS has audio,
and it is the likely candidate. 5. EFIS (?) - Some EFIS's output audio so
this is a possibility 6. Garmin 496 Voice Output (?) - Not sure if I need to
use this if the
stereo output is attached, though I'd rather have warnings come through an
unmutable (immutable?) input and I'd like to still get 496 audio warnings
if I happen to be listening to an mp3 player.
So that's 4 for sure, 5 likely, and perhaps 6, mono signals for the PM3000,
which has one mono input. Further, the mono input of the PM3000 is supposed
to come after the Aux headset jack. That jack is supposed to be installed
between the Comm radio and the intercom, and from a SHTF perspective, that
makes great sense.
Note that I don't need nor want any of those inputs switched nor do any
need added volume controls. Simple is as simple does, and I'm a simple
(minded) guy.
My current plan is build an audio isolation amp per Bob's plans and route
the output of that into the Aux jack and then into the PM3000.
1. Is this OK or should I put the isolation amp between the Aux jack and
the PM3000 so that the primary comm goes to the Aux jack first, then to the
isolation amp? If the SHTF, I would think that having the Aux jack
immediately after Comm1 might be more betterer, though I would lose all the
other audio. If the audio iso amp is so robust as to be a likely survivor
of most failure modes, then perhaps having the Aux jack on the output side
of it but before the intercom is best. What are your thoughts?
2. If I build the isolation amp per the mono schematics (1.8 an 1.8.1)
there appear to be sufficient inputs and others can even be added (with a
little breading of Bob's circuit board). However they both show only one
input going to pin 3 of U115 and the rest going to pin 2. Does it matter or
should the number of inputs be balanced between those two pins? Or, should
they all go to pin 2 as none of the inputs are a single channel of a stereo
signal? I confess my understanding of how that circuit actually works is
minimal.
3. Is there a chance that this can all be done without the iso amp? I sorta
figured that after about 2 mono signals you pretty well need the iso amp,
but I wanted to confirm that.
Finally Bob, assuming I do need an iso amp, I'd like to order one of your
remaining circuit boards for it. Please advise how I should do so. I was a
teenage ham radio operator and worked in an two-way radio factory during my
youth so I'm very comfortable soldering and building projects.
Thanks in advance,
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
One thing to consider...
Even though they haven't made much noise about it, about a year ago PS
Engineering added two mono auxiliary inputs to the PM3000. I don't know how
old your unit is, but you might check with PS to see if it has the auxiliary
inputs...
Bill Denton
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Jenson
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: PM3000 Wiring
Bob & Listers,
I have a used PM3000 stereo intercom for my RV-7. I am intending to wire
two stereo signals, a Garmin 496 and a 1/8" panel jack, through a 4PDT
switch into the intercom's entertainment input. This input mutes when there
is other activity and allows for pilot isolation. That is the easy part.
The more complicated part is how to handle all the mono signals:
1. Comm1 - Panel mounted, probably a Garmin 480 or a 430w
2. Comm2 - Icom A6 handheld in a panel dock
(I have a 4PDT switch for these two to switch the intercom's transmit
output)
3. Nav1 - Garmin 480 or 430w
4. EIS - GRT EIS has audio, and it is the likely candidate.
5. EFIS (?) - Some EFIS's output audio so this is a possibility
6. Garmin 496 Voice Output (?) - Not sure if I need to use this if the
stereo output is attached, though I'd rather have warnings come through an
unmutable (immutable?) input and I'd like to still get 496 audio warnings
if I happen to be listening to an mp3 player.
So that's 4 for sure, 5 likely, and perhaps 6, mono signals for the PM3000,
which has one mono input. Further, the mono input of the PM3000 is supposed
to come after the Aux headset jack. That jack is supposed to be installed
between the Comm radio and the intercom, and from a SHTF perspective, that
makes great sense.
Note that I don't need nor want any of those inputs switched nor do any
need added volume controls. Simple is as simple does, and I'm a simple
(minded) guy.
My current plan is build an audio isolation amp per Bob's plans and route
the output of that into the Aux jack and then into the PM3000.
1. Is this OK or should I put the isolation amp between the Aux jack and
the PM3000 so that the primary comm goes to the Aux jack first, then to the
isolation amp? If the SHTF, I would think that having the Aux jack
immediately after Comm1 might be more betterer, though I would lose all the
other audio. If the audio iso amp is so robust as to be a likely survivor
of most failure modes, then perhaps having the Aux jack on the output side
of it but before the intercom is best. What are your thoughts?
2. If I build the isolation amp per the mono schematics (1.8 an 1.8.1)
there appear to be sufficient inputs and others can even be added (with a
little breading of Bob's circuit board). However they both show only one
input going to pin 3 of U115 and the rest going to pin 2. Does it matter or
should the number of inputs be balanced between those two pins? Or, should
they all go to pin 2 as none of the inputs are a single channel of a stereo
signal? I confess my understanding of how that circuit actually works is
minimal.
3. Is there a chance that this can all be done without the iso amp? I sorta
figured that after about 2 mono signals you pretty well need the iso amp,
but I wanted to confirm that.
Finally Bob, assuming I do need an iso amp, I'd like to order one of your
remaining circuit boards for it. Please advise how I should do so. I was a
teenage ham radio operator and worked in an two-way radio factory during my
youth so I'm very comfortable soldering and building projects.
Thanks in advance,
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PM3000 Wiring |
Put me on your list for more info, etc.
Sam Marlow
Vernon Little wrote:
>
> George:
>
> I think I can help.
>
> Today, I signed off for proto release on a new aviation audio product called
> the AMX-2A Audio Mixer Amplifier.
> It takes 10 monophonic audio sources, isolates and amplifies them into one
> output. Sort of like Bob's isolation amplifier, but more inputs, mono only
> and much smaller package.
>
> Four of the audio inputs have volume controls to allow the adjustment of
> audio levels from instruments that have no controls (e.g. Dynon EFIS). The
> other six inputs are fixed level, assuming that you have source control of
> the audio level from them (e.g. Comms, Traffic Monitors). All inputs are
> 10K ohm impedance.
>
> The output can be connected into the aux audio input on an intercom. If
> your intercom does not support aux inputs (Such as Sigtronics types), the
> output can be wired directly into the headphone bus. Both mono and stereo
> headphone buses are supported.
>
> All of this is contained in a small package, with a 25-pin D-sub connector
> (10 inputs, 2 outputs, power and 12 grounds). In fact, it's so small that
> the entire unit mounts in a D-sub backshell.
>
> I don't want to compete with Bob's isolation amplifier (after all it's his
> site), but I think he offers it more as a public service than a profit
> center. In that spirit, If Bob objects, I will back off.
>
> Documentation is pending, but I can send a pinout pretty quickly.
>
> Thanks, Vern
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
> Jenson
> Sent: April 7, 2008 2:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: PM3000 Wiring
>
>
> -->
>
> Bob & Listers,
>
> I have a used PM3000 stereo intercom for my RV-7. I am intending to wire
> two stereo signals, a Garmin 496 and a 1/8" panel jack, through a 4PDT
> switch into the intercom's entertainment input. This input mutes when there
> is other activity and allows for pilot isolation. That is the easy part.
>
> The more complicated part is how to handle all the mono signals: 1. Comm1 -
> Panel mounted, probably a Garmin 480 or a 430w 2. Comm2 - Icom A6 handheld
> in a panel dock (I have a 4PDT switch for these two to switch the intercom's
> transmit output) 3. Nav1 - Garmin 480 or 430w 4. EIS - GRT EIS has audio,
> and it is the likely candidate. 5. EFIS (?) - Some EFIS's output audio so
> this is a possibility 6. Garmin 496 Voice Output (?) - Not sure if I need to
> use this if the
> stereo output is attached, though I'd rather have warnings come through an
> unmutable (immutable?) input and I'd like to still get 496 audio warnings
> if I happen to be listening to an mp3 player.
>
> So that's 4 for sure, 5 likely, and perhaps 6, mono signals for the PM3000,
> which has one mono input. Further, the mono input of the PM3000 is supposed
> to come after the Aux headset jack. That jack is supposed to be installed
> between the Comm radio and the intercom, and from a SHTF perspective, that
> makes great sense.
>
> Note that I don't need nor want any of those inputs switched nor do any
> need added volume controls. Simple is as simple does, and I'm a simple
> (minded) guy.
>
> My current plan is build an audio isolation amp per Bob's plans and route
> the output of that into the Aux jack and then into the PM3000.
>
> 1. Is this OK or should I put the isolation amp between the Aux jack and
> the PM3000 so that the primary comm goes to the Aux jack first, then to the
> isolation amp? If the SHTF, I would think that having the Aux jack
> immediately after Comm1 might be more betterer, though I would lose all the
> other audio. If the audio iso amp is so robust as to be a likely survivor
> of most failure modes, then perhaps having the Aux jack on the output side
> of it but before the intercom is best. What are your thoughts?
>
> 2. If I build the isolation amp per the mono schematics (1.8 an 1.8.1)
> there appear to be sufficient inputs and others can even be added (with a
> little breading of Bob's circuit board). However they both show only one
> input going to pin 3 of U115 and the rest going to pin 2. Does it matter or
> should the number of inputs be balanced between those two pins? Or, should
> they all go to pin 2 as none of the inputs are a single channel of a stereo
> signal? I confess my understanding of how that circuit actually works is
> minimal.
>
> 3. Is there a chance that this can all be done without the iso amp? I sorta
> figured that after about 2 mono signals you pretty well need the iso amp,
> but I wanted to confirm that.
>
> Finally Bob, assuming I do need an iso amp, I'd like to order one of your
> remaining circuit boards for it. Please advise how I should do so. I was a
> teenage ham radio operator and worked in an two-way radio factory during my
> youth so I'm very comfortable soldering and building projects.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> George Jenson
> Tucson, AZ
> RV-7 in progress
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wiring of 477 rotax |
| From: | "Sam Brunson" <samscycles(at)juno.com> |
I need a little help!!! I have a used rotax 447 with single carb. There are three
wire looms coming out of case. #1 has a yellow wire, and a yellow wire with
black stripe on it. #2 has a green wire, and a green wire with black stripe
on it. #3 has two black wires, and one brown wire. I need to know where these
wires should be hooked up. There is only a pull starter, and no lights.
I need to know how to wire it to run and how to wire in a tach. Also I think
is puts out some voltage when running that may be used somewhere. Please Help????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175378#175378
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring of 477 rotax |
Sam, I have the info but it is in my hangar. If no one else gets the info to
you by tomorrow I'll send it to you.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Brunson" <samscycles(at)juno.com>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring of 477 rotax
>
>
> I need a little help!!! I have a used rotax 447 with single carb. There
> are three wire looms coming out of case. #1 has a yellow wire, and a
> yellow wire with black stripe on it. #2 has a green wire, and a green
> wire with black stripe on it. #3 has two black wires, and one brown wire.
> I need to know where these wires should be hooked up. There is only a
> pull starter, and no lights. I need to know how to wire it to run and how
> to wire in a tach. Also I think is puts out some voltage when running
> that may be used somewhere. Please Help????
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175378#175378
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring of 477 rotax |
>
>I need a little help!!! I have a used rotax 447 with single carb. There
>are three wire looms coming out of case. #1 has a yellow wire, and a
>yellow wire with black stripe on it. #2 has a green wire, and a green
>wire with black stripe on it. #3 has two black wires, and one brown
>wire. I need to know where these wires should be hooked up. There is
>only a pull starter, and no lights. I need to know how to wire it to run
>and how to wire in a tach. Also I think is puts out some voltage when
>running that may be used somewhere. Please Help????
>
You can find a number of Rotax data packages at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Rotax/
In particular, the information you want is in
the 503 series installation manual:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Rotax/Rotax_503_installation_manual.pdf
If you're wanting only the electrical system, download:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Rotax/Rotax_503_Electrical.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fat Wires & Brass vs. Copper |
| From: | "grjtucson" <george(at)georgejenson.com> |
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Summary - 5 questions:
> > 1. 2AWG welding cable OK for engine to firewall ground in lieu of braid?
> > 2. 2AWG welding cable OK for 60amp PP alternator b-lead or should I downsize?
> >
> >
>
> Go 4AWG throughout . . .
>
>
> > 3. .125 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to contactor run (Van's specs same
> > size but Copper)?
> > 4. .063 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to current limiter (no starter
> > current)?
> > 5. .050 x .75 x 5 copper bars/straps on either side of firewall, each
> > soldered with brass tabs, with 3/16 brass bolts as ground setup OK?
> >
> >
>
> Go .032 brass for all and at LEAST 5/16 or better
> yet 3/8" brass bolts for fat-wire terminals. Torque
> to 80+ percent of maximum for the materials and thread
> sizes. Check AC43.13 for values.
Fantastic Bob, thanks for the help and for the work you continue to do. Simply
extraordinary.
George
--------
George Jenson -
Tucson, AZ - RV-7 Standard Build
Empennage Completed 1/06
Wings Completed 11/06
Fuselage in Progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175442#175442
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PM3000 Wiring |
| From: | "grjtucson" <george(at)georgejenson.com> |
Vern,
I'd love to hear more, particularly price, and assuming we're not overstepping
things on the list. It sounds like exactly what I need.
Bill,
My PM3000 is older than that based on the manual provided. I haven't examined the
intercom closely enough to confirm, but it's a fair bet that I don't have one
of the newer ones.
All,
I'm likely to still be interested in rolling my own once I find out what buying
one will cost (I'm frugal in the extreme). So if anyone can shed light on my
questions, I'd be obliged.
George
--------
George Jenson -
Tucson, AZ - RV-7 Standard Build
Empennage Completed 1/06
Wings Completed 11/06
Fuselage in Progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175443#175443
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
I agree completely with the technology costs and the apparent wallet
choking by marketers. As this list has often found in the past, there
are always alternatives to the big player designs. In the computer
world, Linux has proven there is a cheaper, efficient way to include the
entire world in the movement.
I feel ADSB is just another government scam and just another excuse to
act as big brother of the sky. I won't buy into that pork belly junket
even if the entry level becomes $0.00. What a bunch of crap, they offer
something for free and then steal your identity. Wait until you get the
tax bill...
If you can manage to keep the terrorists out of the country they won't
fly your Cessna's and you won't need to spy on them. No, I'm not an
isolationist, but let's exercise some control here.
On Peter's note, I'll agree that mode S does not offer added value in
itself but it still provides a low cost interface for traffic avoidance
if you already have the unit. It's not so much that mode "S" is
obsolete, we are just to ignorant or lazy to further develop the
technology into something that adds value to the flight plan while not
harboring data from our aircraft like we were all fugitives or
gangsters. What the hell, we are all bored in the US and have lots of
money, so why not build an entirely new system, ADSB or some other pipe
dream which is neither economical or leading edge (by the time the
government releases it).
To be sure I talked business in here somewhere, keep an eye on
http://www.mglavionics.com/ If there is anyone left with enough ambition
and appreciation for cost vs. value, they will be the ones to release a
low cost mode S or other for consumers. Don't expect the big dogs to
help the little guy - they are getting too rich stealing from the rest
of us.
It's sort of like the alternator business. Most shops won't admit it,
but an alternator costing $200 - $300 can be rebuilt for $50 or less
(probably $10.00). I've never had a shop pass that saving on to me
before.
Have a great week of flying and try a flight plan-less trip (it keeps
the tax man away and it's more fun).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder for sale (mode S)
-->
Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Mode S is mandatory in Europe? Mode S is already obsolete in the USA.
> They are fighting for the next gen transponder (that will be even more
> expensive).
>
> http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080304ads-b.html
>
> The fact is Mode S does not do anything more for general aviation.
> Even as a technology its based on OLD technology. So for the USA take
> a wait see attitude.
>
>
I find it amazing that a group of volunteers can develop a $200 laptop
to distribute to children in third world countries that, as only one
small part of the project, includes a mesh network technology that
allows them configure themselves to talk to one another on the fly. A
GPS signal (another $100) and a shared database (a correspondingly cheap
FAA controlled ground-station) gives a complete information sharing
system.
Yet, we have a local representative advocating a "low-cost" ADS-B system
that would cost around $3,000. It is simply freaking ridiculous how
"those that know more than we do" continue to settle on technologies
that are outdated and controlled by entrenched commercial interest to
the detriment of us all.
--
http://www.ronpaultimeline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Pereira" <mjpereira68(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
I don't really understand this. The cost of avionics is because of the
low volume and the liability costs. Implementing Linux isn't going to
cut the costs more than 20 bucks on a device. This is a huge deduction
for something like a wifi router. It's noise if you're talking about a
device like a garmin 430.
I'm a full fledged linux bigot but linux isn't the answer to
everything. For something like a mode-s transponder that does very
little but must do it in real time, it probably isn't the right
answer. (And if your answer is ever Windows you're asking the wrong
questions).
I don't see anyone getting rich in the GA aviation market other than
probably the lawyers Cessna and Cirrus must have on retainer.
Also, if I'm not mistaken both mode-s and adsb encode the n-number of
the aircraft they are installed in, so there is no privacy difference.
Adsb is self contained, it transmits a bunch of information, listens
to broadcasts from other aircraft and ATC has passive receivers. If
you're concern is government misbehavior you should be more interested
in adsb than mode-s. Adsb you turn the device off and you're gone as
far as atc is concerned. I assume most mode-s installations will be
made concurrently with primary radar (like mode-c is).
I imagine adsb can be made with more commercial of the shelf parts
since it's basically a gps coupled with a microprocessor and a
transmitter. That has to be easier than implementing something that
interacts with a government provided radar infrastructure (which if I
know the government well enough, probably isn't documented as well as
it should be).
But, forcing everyone to go to mode-s then a half heartbeat later adsb
is annoying and can't be justified considering the expense it's going
to put on aircraft owners.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:17 AM, wrote:
>
> I agree completely with the technology costs and the apparent wallet
> choking by marketers. As this list has often found in the past, there
> are always alternatives to the big player designs. In the computer
> world, Linux has proven there is a cheaper, efficient way to include the
> entire world in the movement.
>
> I feel ADSB is just another government scam and just another excuse to
> act as big brother of the sky. I won't buy into that pork belly junket
> even if the entry level becomes $0.00. What a bunch of crap, they offer
> something for free and then steal your identity. Wait until you get the
> tax bill...
>
> If you can manage to keep the terrorists out of the country they won't
> fly your Cessna's and you won't need to spy on them. No, I'm not an
> isolationist, but let's exercise some control here.
>
> On Peter's note, I'll agree that mode S does not offer added value in
> itself but it still provides a low cost interface for traffic avoidance
> if you already have the unit. It's not so much that mode "S" is
> obsolete, we are just to ignorant or lazy to further develop the
> technology into something that adds value to the flight plan while not
> harboring data from our aircraft like we were all fugitives or
> gangsters. What the hell, we are all bored in the US and have lots of
> money, so why not build an entirely new system, ADSB or some other pipe
> dream which is neither economical or leading edge (by the time the
> government releases it).
>
> To be sure I talked business in here somewhere, keep an eye on
> http://www.mglavionics.com/ If there is anyone left with enough ambition
> and appreciation for cost vs. value, they will be the ones to release a
> low cost mode S or other for consumers. Don't expect the big dogs to
> help the little guy - they are getting too rich stealing from the rest
> of us.
>
> It's sort of like the alternator business. Most shops won't admit it,
> but an alternator costing $200 - $300 can be rebuilt for $50 or less
> (probably $10.00). I've never had a shop pass that saving on to me
> before.
>
> Have a great week of flying and try a flight plan-less trip (it keeps
> the tax man away and it's more fun).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:19 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder for sale (mode S)
>
>
> -->
>
> Peter Pengilly wrote:
> > Mode S is mandatory in Europe? Mode S is already obsolete in the USA.
> > They are fighting for the next gen transponder (that will be even more
> > expensive).
> >
> > http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080304ads-b.html
> >
> > The fact is Mode S does not do anything more for general aviation.
> > Even as a technology its based on OLD technology. So for the USA take
> > a wait see attitude.
> >
> >
> I find it amazing that a group of volunteers can develop a $200 laptop
> to distribute to children in third world countries that, as only one
> small part of the project, includes a mesh network technology that
> allows them configure themselves to talk to one another on the fly. A
> GPS signal (another $100) and a shared database (a correspondingly cheap
>
> FAA controlled ground-station) gives a complete information sharing
> system.
>
> Yet, we have a local representative advocating a "low-cost" ADS-B system
>
> that would cost around $3,000. It is simply freaking ridiculous how
> "those that know more than we do" continue to settle on technologies
> that are outdated and controlled by entrenched commercial interest to
> the detriment of us all.
>
> --
>
> http://www.ronpaultimeline.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
>
>
>I don't really understand this. The cost of avionics is because of the
>low volume and the liability costs. Implementing Linux isn't going to
>cut the costs more than 20 bucks on a device. This is a huge deduction
>for something like a wifi router. It's noise if you're talking about a
>device like a garmin 430.
Having been both a airframe-consumer and an OEM-supplier
in the type certificated aircraft industry, I can share
that as much as 1/2 the cost of a product has nothing to
do with the economics of volume or even the development
costs.
The piles of paper generated before one achieves permission
to sell to TC aviation are a significant portion of the
development costs. Piles of paper to retain permission
after certification are significant. The piles of paper
generated to implement even the most rudimentary of fix
or improvement to design are significant. Each pile of
paper is subject to submission and review by the cognizant
faction of The Administrator's staff with each reviewer
having 90 days to respond. All the while, the manufacturer
has folks drawing salaries charged against the work order
for that product while they wait for reviewers to finish
praying over the paper.
I won't suggest that EVERYTHING we're required to do
is not necessary or useful . . . but folks-who-know-
more-about-airplanes-than-we-do have no stake in
profitability or even performance of those whom they
regulate. Like lawyers who bill by the hour, there's
no incentive to bring any matter to closure soon.
I've seen the in-boxes on a regulator's desk piled
with a 91-day backlog of work . . . and he/she was
proud of it. When I walked in with my request for
an audience, I was greeted warmly and my little
pile of papers for phase 4 of a 10-phase endeavor,
my stuff went to the bottom of the 91-day stack.
And you better not complain lest you find that your
next project keeps dropping to the bottom of the stack
every few weeks.
It's easy to understand why this happens. EVERYONE
wants to get a raise next year. Most everyone likes
to move up in the ranks of their discipline every
year. How does one advance excellence in presiding
over a static set of rules with a static staff? Under
static conditions, performance eventually goes
asymptotic to perfection and advancement ceases.
But if you create more rules and hire more staff to
administer those rules, then the bar goes up and
one can justify expecting and receiving more pay.
Getting things done quickly has a poor return
on investment for the career track.
While Gates and IBM are capable of adding value to
their products . . . regulation only ADDS cost.
If Gates and IBM had the same hurdles to cross as
manufacturers of products for aviation, we'd still be
running 20 MHz 486 machines under CP/M for 3 to 10x
the cost of a current off-the-shelf CPU.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
for sale (mode S)
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> While Gates and IBM are capable of adding value to
> their products . . . regulation only ADDS cost.
> If Gates and IBM had the same hurdles to cross as
> manufacturers of products for aviation, we'd still be
> running 20 MHz 486 machines under CP/M for 3 to 10x
> the cost of a current off-the-shelf CPU.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
CP/M ran just fine on the 8080 and Z80 chips so it's doubtful the
8086 or any of the other advanced processors would have made it past
the paperwork. :)
Bob W.
(I still have a CP/M machine that was working the last time I turned it
on - about 10 years ago.)
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder for sale (mode S) |
Michael Pereira wrote:
>
> I don't really understand this. The cost of avionics is because of the
> low volume and the liability costs. Implementing Linux isn't going to
> cut the costs more than 20 bucks on a device. This is a huge deduction
> for something like a wifi router. It's noise if you're talking about a
> device like a garmin 430.
>
The point wasn't that the OLPC uses Linux. The point was that the
technology to implement a self configuring mesh network is both cheap
and widespread. The point was that the people in charge think of
$3,000 as "low cost", while the same task is being done for <$200.
I realize that Garmin has to make a few pennies. I'm also an engineer,
and I like to eat, too. But I don't expect the government to legislate
that everyone by a Cisco C6500 to use the internet. That sort of
equipment is just way overkill for the job. To say that the industry
should pursue a technology direction that forces everyone to buy
expensive equipment, when the same job can be performed...neigh, is
being performed...by much cheaper equipment so that someone can make
some money is a broken window argument.
Part of the problem is the low volume, as you claim. And so they
propose a system that will perpetuate the need to use low volume
devices? All that would be required to implement the design goals that
I've seen is a white-box GPS, the innards of a PalmVx, and a medium
strength transceiver. The software is trivial, considering the number
of examples with open source available (ie, the hard part is done
already). There's nothing in the mix that would push a marginally
successful product into the $3,000 range.
I think most people involved with aircraft are jaded to the point they
truly believe everything should cost thousands. You have not, because
you ask not.
--
http://www.ronpaultimeline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Risky Jump Starts? |
Greetings,
Someone posted on the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup a story about
damage caused by jumpstarting the airplane with the alternator switch
on. According to the story, the jump start was from an FBO tug capable
of "much more juice" than the owner's pickup truck that he had
successfully used in the past, and as soon as he turned the key, "every
breaker in the plane tripped." Sensors for fuel quantity, oil temp,
ammeter, and oil pressure strip "got fried and needed to be rebuilt."
I'm having trouble understanding how getting a jump start with the
alternator switch turned on could cause this problem. Even if it were a
12 volt system and the FBO tug produced 24 volts, I don't see why it
would trip the circuit breakers.
Any ideas?
Dennis Johnson
Legacy, now flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Risky Jump Starts? |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I'm with you.. I don't see how leaving the alternator turned off would
have helped.
OWT People love to dramatize events.
Hooking 24V to a 12V system can blow breakers on some circuits - like
lighting. And can damage some items. Doubling the V, doubles the I -
when a circuit isn't regulated to constant P (which is true for many
things).
Matt-
> Greetings,
>
> Someone posted on the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup a story about damage
> caused by jumpstarting the airplane with the alternator switch on.
> According to the story, the jump start was from an FBO tug capable of
> "much more juice" than the owner's pickup truck that he had successfully
> used in the past, and as soon as he turned the key, "every breaker in the
> plane tripped." Sensors for fuel quantity, oil temp, ammeter, and oil
> pressure strip "got fried and needed to be rebuilt."
>
> I'm having trouble understanding how getting a jump start with the
> alternator switch turned on could cause this problem. Even if it were a
> 12 volt system and the FBO tug produced 24 volts, I don't see why it would
> trip the circuit breakers.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Dennis Johnson
> Legacy, now flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Risky Jump Starts? |
>Greetings,
>
>Someone posted on the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup a story about damage
>caused by jumpstarting the airplane with the alternator switch
>on. According to the story, the jump start was from an FBO tug capable of
>"much more juice" than the owner's pickup truck that he had successfully
>used in the past, and as soon as he turned the key, "every breaker in the
>plane tripped." Sensors for fuel quantity, oil temp, ammeter, and oil
>pressure strip "got fried and needed to be rebuilt."
>
>I'm having trouble understanding how getting a jump start with the
>alternator switch turned on could cause this problem. Even if it were a
>12 volt system and the FBO tug produced 24 volts, I don't see why it would
>trip the circuit breakers.
24 volts of normal polarity would not trip all the breakers . . .
however 24 volts of REVERSED polarity might. Ground power carts
are typically capable of 1000 to 2000 amp currents. A set of
paralleled-series diodes in an alternator would attempt to hold
off voltage rise of a reversed polarity . . . but the forward
conduction drop on a highly stressed diode is 1 volt or more. So
in milliseconds, the bus voltage goes minus to the tune of 2 volts
or more . . . at MANY amps. The battery would also attempt to stand
of the event . . . but we don't know if the battery was even on
line for this scenario. But if the battery were dead, it wouldn't
be much help.
The alternator breaker or b-lead fuse would open first and
probably before the alternator was damaged. As soon as the
breaker opens, then the bus voltage goes WAAAaayyyy negative
and really sad things start to happen . . . which may well include
the opening of a few more breakers.
I've had line-folks put 24v of the RIGHT polarity to my
14v airplane and that was scary enough. I've addressed this
possibility in the designs for ground power jacks in your
OBAM aircraft project. I've always recommended (1) ov protection,
(2) reverse polarity protection and (3) giving the pilot
absolute control of when power is applied to the ship's
systems. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
The outcome of this story would not have been altered by
leaving the alternator switch OFF. I used to contribute to
the discussions on Usenet groups but had to give up after
discovering that many folks who hang out there are not
interested in (or perhaps capable of) understanding
the simple-ideas behind the physics that controls behavior
of their electrical systems.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Risky Jump Starts? |
>Greetings,
>
>Someone posted on the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup a story about damage
>caused by jumpstarting the airplane with the alternator switch
>on. According to the story, the jump start was from an FBO tug capable of
>"much more juice" than the owner's pickup truck that he had successfully
>used in the past, and as soon as he turned the key, "every breaker in the
>plane tripped." Sensors for fuel quantity, oil temp, ammeter, and oil
>pressure strip "got fried and needed to be rebuilt."
>
>I'm having trouble understanding how getting a jump start with the
>alternator switch turned on could cause this problem. Even if it were a
>12 volt system and the FBO tug produced 24 volts, I don't see why it would
>trip the circuit breakers.
24 volts of normal polarity would not trip all the breakers . . .
however 24 volts of REVERSED polarity might. Ground power carts
are typically capable of 1000 to 2000 amp currents. A set of
paralleled-series diodes in an alternator would attempt to hold
off voltage rise of a reversed polarity . . . but the forward
conduction drop on a highly stressed diode is 1 volt or more. So
in milliseconds, the bus voltage goes minus to the tune of 2 volts
or more . . . at MANY amps. The battery would also attempt to stand
of the event . . . but we don't know if the battery was even on
line for this scenario. But if the battery were dead, it wouldn't
be much help.
(UPON FURTHER REFLECTION, THE SCENARIO DESCRIBED MAY NOT HAVE
INCLUDED REVERSED POLARITY . . . THIS IS AN EXCEEDINGLY RARE
EVENT THAT IS USUALLY LIMITED TO RECENTLY SERVICED BATTERY
CARTS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPROPERLY ASSEMBLED. THIS PROBABLY WAS
A SIMPLE OVER VOLTAGE EVENT SUPPORTED BY A 1000+ AMP CURRENT
SOURCE. YOU THINK AN OV EVENT FROM A 60A ALTERNATOR IS BAD,
TRY A 1000A GROUND POWER CART!)
The alternator breaker or b-lead fuse would open first and
probably before the alternator was damaged. As soon as the
breaker opens, then the bus voltage goes WAAAaayyyy negative
and really sad things start to happen . . . which may well include
the opening of a few more breakers.
I've had line-folks put 24v of the RIGHT polarity to my
14v airplane and that was scary enough. I've addressed this
possibility in the designs for ground power jacks in your
OBAM aircraft project. I've always recommended (1) ov protection,
(2) reverse polarity protection and (3) giving the pilot
absolute control of when power is applied to the ship's
systems. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
The outcome of this story would not have been altered by
leaving the alternator switch OFF. I used to contribute to
the discussions on Usenet groups but had to give up after
discovering that many folks who hang out there are not
interested in (or perhaps capable of) understanding
the simple-ideas behind the physics that controls behavior
of their electrical systems.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Securing Ends of Wires in Wing for Later Use |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello!
I have one wing ready to skin and have run a bundle of wires from the root out
to the tip through the leading edge. The wire may be used for a heated pitot tube
(~3' from the root), landing lights (~1' in from the tip), and a tip nav/pos/strobe
combo. I will most likely not install the lights and heated pitot until
after hours of flying, if at all. So, what are some good ways to tie off wire
that won't be used?
The first wire I need to figure out is the one for a heated pitot. My bundle goes
through the forward of two lightening hole and the pitot tube is located several
inches back near the main spar. If I make a few loops of pitot wire and
tie it to the bundle, I wouldn't be able to reach it through the access hole,
which is only 2". So I'm thinking it should be real close to the access hole,
maybe even on the pitot tube assembly itself? Again, it's not a heated tube but
would be available if I switched it over to one in the future.
Then there are the rest of the wires that end at or near the tip. For now I've
coiled them a few times and cinched down a cable tie or two there for the time
being. I'm not in a hurry to get this location figured out, because I'll have
access to it after the wing is skinned. But the pitot tube wire needs to be figured
out in the next few days.
Cheers,
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175812#175812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Cole <rcole927(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Ends of Wires in Wing for Later Use |
Dan,
I ran a piece of 3/4-inch OD, 5/8 ID polyethylene tube the length of
my wings so I can pull the wires when they are needed. That begs the
question of a heated pitot. I figure that if I REALLY need a heated
pitot, I can use a soldering iron through an access port to melt a
hole in the conduit.
Roger Cole
Murphy Elite #709
Wings and tail done; starting fuselage
On Apr 9, 2008, at 6:32 PM, messydeer wrote:
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I have one wing ready to skin and have run a bundle of wires from
> the root out to the tip through the leading edge. The wire may be
> used for a heated pitot tube (~3' from the root), landing lights
> (~1' in from the tip), and a tip nav/pos/strobe combo. I will most
> likely not install the lights and heated pitot until after hours of
> flying, if at all. So, what are some good ways to tie off wire that
> won't be used?
>
> The first wire I need to figure out is the one for a heated pitot.
> My bundle goes through the forward of two lightening hole and the
> pitot tube is located several inches back near the main spar. If I
> make a few loops of pitot wire and tie it to the bundle, I wouldn't
> be able to reach it through the access hole, which is only 2". So
> I'm thinking it should be real close to the access hole, maybe even
> on the pitot tube assembly itself? Again, it's not a heated tube
> but would be available if I switched it over to one in the future.
>
> Then there are the rest of the wires that end at or near the tip.
> For now I've coiled them a few times and cinched down a cable tie
> or two there for the time being. I'm not in a hurry to get this
> location figured out, because I'll have access to it after the wing
> is skinned. But the pitot tube wire needs to be figured out in the
> next few days.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175812#175812
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Ends of Wires in Wing for Later Use |
Dan,
Consider doing as Roger suggested and instead of running the wires, run a
pull line through the conduit to use later to pull the wires through. Also,
you can use a file to make a nice, smoothed edge hole in the conduit.
You can partially see what I've done at _http://www.rv-8a.net/2006.htm_
(http://www.rv-8a.net/2006.htm) and scroll down to 8 Apr 06 and 14 Apr 06. You
can see the conduit in those photos and how I fed lines into them.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
Dan,
I ran a piece of 3/4-inch OD, 5/8 ID polyethylene tube the length of
my wings so I can pull the wires when they are needed. That begs the
question of a heated pitot. I figure that if I REALLY need a heated
pitot, I can use a soldering iron through an access port to melt a
hole in the conduit.
Roger Cole
Murphy Elite #709
Wings and tail done; starting fuselage
On Apr 9, 2008, at 6:32 PM, messydeer wrote:
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I have one wing ready to skin and have run a bundle of wires from
> the root out to the tip through the leading edge. The wire may be
> used for a heated pitot tube (~3' from the root), landing lights
> (~1' in from the tip), and a tip nav/pos/strobe combo. I will most
> likely not install the lights and heated pitot until after hours of
> flying, if at all. So, what are some good ways to tie off wire that
> won't be used?
>
> The first wire I need to figure out is the one for a heated pitot.
> My bundle goes through the forward of two lightening hole and the
> pitot tube is located several inches back near the main spar. If I
> make a few loops of pitot wire and tie it to the bundle, I wouldn't
> be able to reach it through the access hole, which is only 2". So
> I'm thinking it should be real close to the access hole, maybe even
> on the pitot tube assembly itself? Again, it's not a heated tube
> but would be available if I switched it over to one in the future.
>
> Then there are the rest of the wires that end at or near the tip.
> For now I've coiled them a few times and cinched down a cable tie
> or two there for the time being. I'm not in a hurry to get this
> location figured out, because I'll have access to it after the wing
> is skinned. But the pitot tube wire needs to be figured out in the
> next few days.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Securing Ends of Wires in Wing for Later Use |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for the replies, guys.
I've already got the wires routed without tubing. What it really comes down to
is how to secure the loose spare wires at their ends before they are hooked up.
With a tube this wouldn't be a problem. I suppose I could wrap and tape the
heater wire around the non-heated pitot tube.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175906#175906
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Strippers are all spoken for. |
-----Original Message-----
Bob and listers.
Gilchrist Electric's phone numbers have been disconnected. Out of Business?
They clipped me for 14.00$.
Payed through Google checkout. Can't seem to get anyone to answer my inquiry
at Gilchrist and Google.
Caveat Emptor
Peter Laurence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Securing Ends of Wires in Wing for Later Use |
I'd cut it off fold it on itself, stuff it in some heat wrap and heat shrink
the wrap on it. That should hold it and eliminate the messiness of
electrical tape "goo"
bobf
On 4/10/08, messydeer wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the replies, guys.
>
> I've already got the wires routed without tubing. What it really comes
> down to is how to secure the loose spare wires at their ends before they are
> hooked up. With a tube this wouldn't be a problem. I suppose I could wrap
> and tape the heater wire around the non-heated pitot tube.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175906#175906
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I am reading through the AeroElectric Connection manual as I have time, but
I am having trouble comprehending some of the concepts presented. I just
read about the use of shunts in an electrical system to allow the
measurement of large currents with small meters. One thing I don't
understand is, if a shunt is used in the circuit to be measured, what
prevents a reduction in energy in the circuit on the downstream side of the
shunt? Can someone help me better understand this?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
Quoting Dave VanLanen :
> understand is, if a shunt is used in the circuit to be measured, what
> prevents a reduction in energy in the circuit on the downstream side of the
> shunt? Can someone help me better understand this?
Nothing prevents it; there is in fact such a reduction. However, it's
such a minuscule reduction that it's not noticeable in ordinary
operation. A shunt typically is designed for a 50 mV voltage drop at
full capacity. So, a 100A shunt will cause a 50 mV drop at 100A. In
a 14V circuit, 100A represents 1400W, and the shunt will consume 5W of
that.
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hey Dave,
Nothing prevents loss of energy downstream of the shunt. But, a properly
selected shunt will have a relatively small voltage drop at full scale
current - reducing the power consumption of the device. Typical shunts
drop 50mV at full scale. On a 100A peak current circuit that's 5W = 100A
* 50mV. If you figure you're dropping the rest of the 13V supply into the
100A load, you're only losing 5W out of 1300W or 0.3%. Not too terrible.
At lower currents the percentage of power lost is less: 10A through the
same shunt will drop 5mV which is 50mW of the 130W delivered to the load -
or 0.03%.
Many aircraft engine monitors are setup to use Hall Effect sensors - which
do not consume any current from the measured circuit.
Regards,
Matt-
> I am reading through the AeroElectric Connection manual as I have time,
> but
> I am having trouble comprehending some of the concepts presented. I just
> read about the use of shunts in an electrical system to allow the
> measurement of large currents with small meters. One thing I don't
> understand is, if a shunt is used in the circuit to be measured, what
> prevents a reduction in energy in the circuit on the downstream side of
> the
> shunt? Can someone help me better understand this?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> 601XL - Tail
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Gilcrhist Electric |
><PLaurence@the-beach.net>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Bob and listers.
>
>Gilchrist Electric's phone numbers have been disconnected. Out of Business?
>They clipped me for 14.00$.
>
>Payed through Google checkout. Can't seem to get anyone to answer my inquiry
>at Gilchrist and Google.
This has been reported to me by several builders. I've written the
Chamber of Commerce in Bozeman and searched the 'net for any
indication that the company has folded. No data has been
forthcoming as of this writing. Gilchrist has also completely
disappeared from Ebay in spite of the fact that their website
is still up . . . and silent as to the fortunes of the company.
I'm sorry to hear this. They gave me very good prices on
lots of coax strippers during the time I was offering
them from our website.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John and Nancy Ghertner <nghertner(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Gilcrhist Electric |
I received a stripper from them today. Unfortunately, it is the wrong size.
Lory Ghertner
>
>
>
>> <PLaurence@the-beach.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Bob and listers.
>>
>> Gilchrist Electric's phone numbers have been disconnected. Out of Business?
>> They clipped me for 14.00$.
>>
>> Payed through Google checkout. Can't seem to get anyone to answer my inquiry
>> at Gilchrist and Google.
>
> This has been reported to me by several builders. I've written the
> Chamber of Commerce in Bozeman and searched the 'net for any
> indication that the company has folded. No data has been
> forthcoming as of this writing. Gilchrist has also completely
> disappeared from Ebay in spite of the fact that their website
> is still up . . . and silent as to the fortunes of the company.
>
> I'm sorry to hear this. They gave me very good prices on
> lots of coax strippers during the time I was offering
> them from our website.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Copper foil for ground planes |
I just ran across this offering on the 'net for .013" thick
copper sheet.
http://www.craftsetc.com/store/item.aspx?ItemId=37793&dep=50&cat=85&subcat=25&Search=Y
This stuff is thick enough to craft mechanically robust
ground plane radials for antennas on plastic airplanes.
In fact, one could also craft the center commoning disk from
two pieces of the same material. Sandwich and sweat solder
the radials between the commoning sheets.
I've crafted several DIY com antennas with featuring
coax connectors. I'm satisfied with the last iteration
and will be publishing a comic book on it in the
not too distant future.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r falstad" <bobair8(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Splicing Shielded Cable |
Folks,
I'm using the Ray Allen electric trim and their stick grips in my
GlaStar. I'm using shielded two-conductor cable from the PTT switch to
the intercom. I need to splice that cable and originally used Bob's
soldered lap splicing technique but kept the exposed wires very short to
be able to replace the shield. Long story short -- one of the wires
shorted to the shield so I had a "stuck mic".
My specific question is: what's the best way to replace the shield
after splicing shielded wire? To do it right this time, I'll have to
expose about 2" - 3" of each wire.
Best regards,
Bob
GlaStar
N248BF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Splicing Shielded Cable |
March 23, 2008 - April 11, 2008
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hs