AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ie
September 28, 2008 - October 23, 2008
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
. . . which was in the ball-park for various applications
and consistent from test to test so that the brands could
be compared.
This suite of tests was run on AA cells at 300 mA constant
current:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/AA_Battery_Tests_80322.jpg
Again, the current needed to be consistent from test to test
and in the ball-park for the applications (digital cameras).
However, if you ran this same array of cells at say, 20 mA
discharge rates, you'd get a LOT more total energy out of them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Verwey" <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Regulated voltage to high |
Hi folks
I have had to come out of perpetual lurk on account of my little problem. I
have a recently OH 12 v Delco Remy alternator on an IO470 experimental setup
with a Motorola electronic automotive type regulator. The regulated voltage
is 14.6v steady. I also changed the battery and some wiring (relay for the
field switch, which works off the Cessna type split master). I previously
had a wig wag ammeter, ostensibly due to wiring not being what it should be,
or sensing in the incorrect place.
Is it possible to "adjust" this voltage somehow?
Bob Verwey
A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Tale of Two Batteries |
Bob,
What I was asking about was the VDC 12248-AA-1 charger as compared to
the straight 12248. I think the "aviation adjusted" charger runs a
couple of tenths of a volt (I misspoke when I said amp) lower to make
Concorde and Gill happy. I was asking if it really makes much difference
in the life of the battery - $65 worth. I'm guessing from your test
curves and stuff that the answer is probably no. The 12248 will also do
flooded batteries where the AA-1 is AGM only.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>> What is the AA, just a tenth of an amp or so lower setting, or is it
>> magic?
>
>
> Not sure about what you're asking. Are you wondering what
> test currents are appropriate for testing AA cells?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Transponder and Radio position |
Hi there Folks
I am about to begin the installation of the Transponder (GTX-330) and the
Comm Radio (SL-30) in my RV-9A's panel, and I wonder if there is any rule of
thumb about their position in the central rack.
In panels that I have seen, the Xpdr is usually at the bottom position, with
the Radio immediately above.
Which are the pros and cons of putting those 2 avionics at the bottom of the
rack, and the Xpdr below or above the Radio?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Tale of Two Batteries |
>
>Bob,
>
>What I was asking about was the VDC 12248-AA-1 charger as compared to the
>straight 12248. I think the "aviation adjusted" charger runs a couple of
>tenths of a volt (I misspoke when I said amp) lower to make Concorde and
>Gill happy. I was asking if it really makes much difference in the life of
>the battery - $65 worth. I'm guessing from your test curves and stuff that
>the answer is probably no. The 12248 will also do flooded batteries where
>the AA-1 is AGM only.
Aha! I'm not familiar with those chargers . . . but yes,
a few tenths here, a few tenths there is probably
not significant in the grand scheme of things. I'd like
to know the definition of "aviation adjusted" . . .
and the rationale for making the distinction.
Bottom line is that NO AIRPLANE in service even approximates
the fondest wishes of a manufacturer for the care and feeding
of their particular baby. So if you've got a top-off charger
that drops down to within a half a volt of open circuit
voltage, it's just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder and Radio position |
>From the ergonomics point of view, you would position things by how much you
have to use them. Since you "use" a transponder less than a com radio, the
com would get preference in the battle of the easiest reach.
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Hi there Folks
>
>
> I am about to begin the installation of the Transponder (GTX-330) and the
> Comm Radio (SL-30) in my RV-9A's panel, and I wonder if there is any rule of
> thumb about their position in the central rack.
>
> In panels that I have seen, the Xpdr is usually at the bottom position,
> with the Radio immediately above.
>
> Which are the pros and cons of putting those 2 avionics at the bottom of
> the rack, and the Xpdr below or above the Radio?
>
>
> Carlos
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: capacitance probes |
Hi Bob
I have a question regarding capacitance fuel probes.- I am having a fuel
level reading on my lt tank that was fluxuating and is now reading zero. I
am trying to narrow the problem.- Probes, analog to digital converter/ wi
ring / EngineAirdataUnit- EAU.- My first thing to eliminate is the prob
e.- It has 3 wires red-black-white if that helps.
Jim Robinson
Glll- N79R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Transponder and Radio position |
In my case, Beckers on the left edge of an RV-8 panel, ergonomics were
equal. However, the transponder consumes a lot more power than the coms
do, so I put it at the top of the stack. Given that heat is the greatest
enemy of our electronics, this should allow my coms to run somewhat cooler.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder and Radio position
>
> Hi there Folks
>
>
> I am about to begin the installation of the Transponder (GTX-330) and the
> Comm Radio (SL-30) in my RV-9A's panel, and I wonder if there is any rule
of
> thumb about their position in the central rack.
>
> In panels that I have seen, the Xpdr is usually at the bottom position,
with
> the Radio immediately above.
>
> Which are the pros and cons of putting those 2 avionics at the bottom of
the
> rack, and the Xpdr below or above the Radio?
>
>
> Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Etienne Phillips" <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair |
2008/9/28 Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
> The short answer is that it is rarely necessary.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Hi Bob
The installation of the SD-8 alternator and regulator calls for twisting the
cables down-stream of the smoothing capacitor... Surely this should be done
for all power delivery cables if it's done for this particular set? Or is
this done only for this set of wires because they're probably going to be
running in close proximity to the alternator and it's spinning batteries?
Thanks
Etienne
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [OT] Pronunciation question |
Hi all,
No electrics this time.
Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
One thousand twenty eight ?
One point....
etc..
Thanks,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
Good question! Since we don't treat a period as a thousands separator on
this side of the pond, I would say, "One dot(or point) zero two eight".
john
Gilles Thesee wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> No electrics this time.
>
> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
>
> One thousand twenty eight ?
> One point....
> etc..
>
> Thanks,
> Best regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
I would say "eff see ell one dot oh twenty-eight"
Mickey
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
> wrote:
> Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> No electrics this time.
>
> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
>
> One thousand twenty eight ?
> One point....
> etc..
>
> Thanks,
> Best regards,
> --
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
--
Mickey Coggins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | [OT] Pronunciation question |
Try "eff see ell one dot ZERO TWO eight"
Thanks!
Bill Denton
bdenton(at)bdenton.com
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question
I would say "eff see ell one dot oh twenty-eight"
Mickey
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Gilles Thesee
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi all,
No electrics this time.
Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
One thousand twenty eight ?
One point....
etc..
Thanks,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
--
Mickey Coggins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
It depends on the origin and contet of the number. If it is a European number,
I assume the dot is where we use a comma.? In this instance it would be one thousand
twenty eight.? If this an American number, it would be one point zero
twenty eight; or one and twenty eight thousandths, depending on the context.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 2:55 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question
?
Hi all,?
?
No electrics this time.?
?
Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.?
How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ??
?
One thousand twenty eight ??
One point....?
etc..?
?
Thanks,?
Best regards,?
--
Gilles?
http://contrails.free.fr?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
Gilles, A machinist would say "One and twenty eight thousandths. :-}
Rick
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
> wrote:
> Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> No electrics this time.
>
> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
>
> One thousand twenty eight ?
> One point....
> etc..
>
> Thanks,
> Best regards,
> --
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
Gilles Thesee wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> No electrics this time.
>
> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
>
> One thousand twenty eight ?
> One point....
> etc..
>
One dot oh two eight or One dot zero two eight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
Gilles;
Correct English usage depends on the context.
The "period" is never used as the 1000's delineator.
The "comma" is used for that purpose.
Therefore your example cannot be "one thousand twenty eight".
The "period" is used as the decimal point in mathematical notation.
Numerals after the decimal point are always named individually, never as
a group.
Therefore 1.028 is "one decimal zero two eight" NEVER "one decimal zero
twenty eight".
However in literature or in the case you are citing, where the numeral
is possibly indicating a paragraph or rule, then a sub-paragraph or
sub-rule within that paragraph or rule, normal usage could be to say
either "one decimal zero two eight" OR "one point zero two eight" where
"point" delineates point number two eight under paragraph number one or
sub-rule two eight under rule one, etc.
The word "dot" is never used numerically to describe the "period", but
is used to describe a period in a web address. For example, "double-you
double-you double-you dot aeroelectric dot com" (www.aeroelectric.com)
In summary, according to "proper English", as taught in the Canadian
school system, your question re; FCL 1.028 would be pronounced in spoken
English as "Foxtrot Charlie Lima one decimal zero two eight" OR if
quoting a particular rule or paragraph it could be also "Foxtrot Charlie
Lima one point zero two eight". If the clarity of the phonetic alphabet
is not desired then "Eff, Sea, Elle" could be used for the letters.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> No electrics this time.
>
> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented.
> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ?
>
> One thousand twenty eight ?
> One point....
> etc..
>
> Thanks,
> Best regards,
> --
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair |
>2008/9/28 Robert L. Nuckolls, III
><nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>><nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>> The short answer is that it is rarely necessary.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>Hi Bob
>
>The installation of the SD-8 alternator and regulator calls for twisting
>the cables down-stream of the smoothing capacitor... Surely this should be
>done for all power delivery cables if it's done for this particular set?
>Or is this done only for this set of wires because they're probably going
>to be running in close proximity to the alternator and it's spinning batteries?
No, this suggestion was driven by the fact that
when the SD-8 came to the market about 20+ years
ago, PLASTIC airplanes with the engine on the wrong
end were king. COMPASS interference (due to strong
magnetic fields around alternator feeds between the
engine on the back and the battery on the front) was
eliminated by twisting these wires.
Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires
should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation
instructions . . . and the fact that one system get
twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get
them.
A figure Z-13/8 installation on an RV would not benefit
from this process.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: capacitance probes |
>Hi Bob
>I have a question regarding capacitance fuel probes. I am having a fuel
>level reading on my lt tank that was fluxuating and is now reading zero. I
>am trying to narrow the problem. Probes, analog to digital converter/
>wiring / EngineAirdataUnit EAU. My first thing to eliminate is the
>probe. It has 3 wires red-black-white if that helps.
>Jim Robinson
>Glll N79R
Sorry old friend. I'm not familiar with any of the
systems offered to the OBAM aircraft market. I am about
to take on a design task for a new capacity based fuel
gaging system for TC aircraft and I'm looking forward to
adding this technology to my bag of tricks.
My best guess is that if your probe has ordinary bundled
strands of wire for connection, these wires are NOT part
of the capacity dependent fuel sensing system. I would guess
that they are power, ground and some signal wire compatible
with the companion display. Do you have more than one sensor?
Right and left tanks perhaps? Try swapping sensors and see
if the problem swaps.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: capacitance probes |
Thanks Bob
I sent a second message, please disregard.- I just jumped the gun
Jim
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: capacitance probes
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 8:41 PM
>Hi Bob
>I have a question regarding capacitance fuel probes. I am having a fuel
>level reading on my lt tank that was fluxuating and is now reading zero. I
>am trying to narrow the problem. Probes, analog to digital converter/
>wiring / EngineAirdataUnit EAU. My first thing to eliminate is the
>probe. It has 3 wires red-black-white if that helps.
>Jim Robinson
>Glll N79R
Sorry old friend. I'm not familiar with any of the
systems offered to the OBAM aircraft market. I am about
to take on a design task for a new capacity based fuel
gaging system for TC aircraft and I'm looking forward to
adding this technology to my bag of tricks.
My best guess is that if your probe has ordinary bundled
strands of wire for connection, these wires are NOT part
of the capacity dependent fuel sensing system. I would guess
that they are power, ground and some signal wire compatible
with the companion display. Do you have more than one sensor?
Right and left tanks perhaps? Try swapping sensors and see
if the problem swaps.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: capacitance probes |
Thanks Bob
The probe wires run to a analog/digital converter that feeds the display.
- It is rather difficult to remove the probes so I was hoping to eliminat
e this as a problem without removal.- Maybe someone on the list is famili
ar with these things.
Jim Robinson
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: capacitance probes
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 8:41 PM
>Hi Bob
>I have a question regarding capacitance fuel probes. I am having a fuel
>level reading on my lt tank that was fluxuating and is now reading zero. I
>am trying to narrow the problem. Probes, analog to digital converter/
>wiring / EngineAirdataUnit EAU. My first thing to eliminate is the
>probe. It has 3 wires red-black-white if that helps.
>Jim Robinson
>Glll N79R
Sorry old friend. I'm not familiar with any of the
systems offered to the OBAM aircraft market. I am about
to take on a design task for a new capacity based fuel
gaging system for TC aircraft and I'm looking forward to
adding this technology to my bag of tricks.
My best guess is that if your probe has ordinary bundled
strands of wire for connection, these wires are NOT part
of the capacity dependent fuel sensing system. I would guess
that they are power, ground and some signal wire compatible
with the companion display. Do you have more than one sensor?
Right and left tanks perhaps? Try swapping sensors and see
if the problem swaps.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires
> should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation
> instructions . . . and the fact that one system get
> twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get
> them.
>
Just to be clear, twisting wires isn't 'bad', per se. It is just that
it isn't necessary. Correct?
If I have up to four wires following the same route (same origin and
destination), I tend to twist them. It's not for any electrical purpose
... just makes the installation neater and easier to handle. I have a
rack with four colors of wire in various gauges. Twisting more that
four wires doesn't create a tight bundle, so I switch to using looming
after that.
The technique does have the drawback that if one wire goes bad or is
damaged, I will have to replace two or more, but I figure there isn' t
much that can damage one that won't damage all of them if they're
following the same path anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair |
>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires
>> should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation
>> instructions . . . and the fact that one system get
>> twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get
>> them.
>
>Just to be clear, twisting wires isn't 'bad', per se. It is just that it
>isn't necessary. Correct?
Correct. It has a downside of making wire bundles more bulky.
>If I have up to four wires following the same route (same origin and
>destination), I tend to twist them. It's not for any electrical purpose
>... just makes the installation neater and easier to handle. I have a
>rack with four colors of wire in various gauges. Twisting more that four
>wires doesn't create a tight bundle, so I switch to using looming after that.
Nothing wrong with process-for-a-purpose. I've often
used my drill motor to twist a pair or trio of 22AWG
wires together for the purpose of bundling . . . just
as you've suggested. We just need to be careful that
our conversation is not mis-understood by bunches of
other folks and they start twisting everything under
a misguided notion that it automatically adds value.
>The technique does have the drawback that if one wire goes bad or is
>damaged, I will have to replace two or more, but I figure there isn' t
>much that can damage one that won't damage all of them if they're
>following the same path anyway.
This is an exceedingly low risk. It's been my experience
that single wires don't take mechanical hits very often.
Single wires are most at-risk from poor protection due
to over-current. When wires take mechanical hits, it
generally involves multiple wires.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and
trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective
and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one
3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging,
securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking
two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to
feed them back through when the wing is removed.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Tale of Two Batteries |
Follow up:
I tested Battery 3 yesterday and quit at 11volts instead of 10.5 because
it had already proved itself and I wanted to get it on the charger
before I left the hangar. It tested to 25.4 ah at a 4 amp draw (and
stopping early). I have no doubt that it would last longer than my fuel
after an alternator failure. Displayed on the same graph as Battery 2,
it looks better, but only slightly. By the way, I looked closer and
these batteries are rated at 24 ah, not 25.
I think we'll probably set 16 or 17 amp hours as the bottom limit, test
at annual and run this battery for a long, long time to come. It might
take a while to pay for the CBA in un-replaced batteries, but the
knowledge of just how much is in there is priceless.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I recently bought the West Mountain Radio CBA and did some tests on
> some old batteries. Here's what I found:
>
> Battery 1 came with our airplane and after about 2 years we decided to
> replace it. It is a Conorde RG-25XC rated at 25 ah. It was removed
> from the airplane in January of 06 and charged 2 or 3 times since. It
> mostly just sat. I charged it with a BatteryMINDer at 8 amps and
> discharged it at 4amps to 10.5v. It tested to 12.1 ah, or about half
> it's rated capacity.
>
> Battery 2 is the same make and model and is the battery which replaced
> Bat 1 in Jan/06. This battery gave no problems in service until the
> day that the positive cable chafed through and shorted against a
> stainless braided brake line in flight. It resulted in a smoke filled
> cabin and an emergency landing (on airport). When I arrived on the
> scene an hour and a half later, I moved the brake line away from the
> cable and measured 5 volts on the battery. Needless to say, the cable
> has been protected from this ever happening again. The battery was
> charged overnight (on an ancient non-smart charger) and returned to
> service. A month or two later, it failed to start the airplane and was
> changed out for another RG-25 XC. This was all about a year ago. I
> don't remember if I charged this battery after removal, but it was at
> 12.66 volts before I charged it for this test. I discharged it at 4
> amps to 10.5v. It, surprisingly, came in at 25.4 ah - right at rated
> capacity. I'm going to swap it back into the airplane long enough to
> test Battery 3 and see how that one is doing.
>
> I also tested a friend's 35 ah Concorde battery which is a year old
> but hasn't yet seen service at 4 amps to 10.5v and got 37.4 ah out of it.
>
> In the meantime, my computer's UPS quit working so I pulled the 8 ah
> battery out of it and found it to be 5.3v. I extended the leads out of
> the UPS box and hooked them to Battery 1 and hooked my computer back
> up to it. The float voltage seems high at 13.72, but I'm not worried
> about it seeing as how that battery is useless for much else and if it
> fails at some point, I have another to replace it.
>
> Hope I didn't bore Y'all too much,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
Glenn,
Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing
male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available
anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and
> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective
> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one
> 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging,
> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
>
> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking
> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to
> feed them back through when the wing is removed.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Gilroy" <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
How about a WeatherPak connector? Available in your finer auto
establishments...
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:06 PM, wrote:
>
>
> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and
> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective
> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one
> 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging,
> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
>
> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking
> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to
> feed them back through when the wing is removed.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
Mike,
Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer
connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I see
a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they available
without wires?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Humphrey
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
Glenn,
Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing
male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available
anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights
and
> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost
effective
> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one
> 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage
unplugging,
> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
>
> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am
thinking
> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to
> feed them back through when the wing is removed.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <wlively(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance Probes |
Jim
Could you describe your set-up more thoroughly? What type probes, converter and
output volts, ect.
The probes themselve work as a capacitor, two plates with one wire for each.
The three wires you mentioned probably go to the converter. Which converts the
capacitive reading to probably vdc (0-5 my guess) for your display. If so, you
can read the output of the converter with a multimeter and see if that jives
with the level reading. You can also set your multimeter to diode check and use
that as a voltage source to inject a voltage (1. something if I remeber right)to
your gauge and see what level it gives to test the wiring and gauge. Can
compare to other side. This ONLY applies if your system is set-up as I guessed.
Hard to say more without more details of the system.
Wade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | VDC Battery Minders |
Howdy,
Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the
difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight
12248. He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and
Gill, use a chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other
batteries and require a different charge profile. He said that the
voltage is slightly lower and the time in the second phase of the charge
cycle is longer, and the voltage in the float is lower. The de-sulfation
circuit is exactly the same in all the models.
They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey
battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging
profile because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a
model for the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said
that these are all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting, but
not user accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played around
with it.
He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile
charger for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would
damage it. That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart
charger would work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept
reasonably charged by it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test.
If a battery were to be left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger
for a longer term float, one could mitigate the potential damage by
setting to the "Gell cell" setting which floats at a lower voltage and
wouldn't cook the battery off.
I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all
this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the
people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep
their batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas to
keep them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and taking
into account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the most
versatile of their offerings. The chargers sense ambient temperature and
so the $20 temp probe is of limited value is what we agreed. Your
mileage may vary.
By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15 less
than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I could
find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but the guy
said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
>
> One point zero two eight
Hi all,
Thanks to all who responded.
Oh, and by the way, what about ICAO ?
Eye See Ay Oh or Eye Kay-Oh, or....;-)
Thanks again,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance Probes |
Wade
Thanks for the response.- I have Vision Micro probes (lt and rt) that fee
d into a converter box (analog to digital) then into the GRT- EAU.- I s
poke to Princeston Electronics (they make the converter box)- He said tha
t they have had some problems with the older unit I have and they have impr
oved the newer units.- He was very gracious to warrantee my units, and is
sending me new converters.- The new units have some other diagnostic fun
ctions that mine don't so that should be helpful.- I'll keep you posted.
Jim Robinson
N79R- Glll
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, wrote:
From: <wlively(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance Probes
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 2:54 PM
Jim
Could you describe your set-up more thoroughly? What type probes, convert
er
and output volts, ect.
The probes themselve work as a capacitor, two plates with one wire for ea
ch.
The three wires you mentioned probably go to the converter. Which converts
the
capacitive reading to probably vdc (0-5 my guess) for your display. If so,
you
can read the output of the converter with a multimeter and see if that jive
s
with the level reading. You can also set your multimeter to diode check and
use
that as a voltage source to inject a voltage (1. something if I remeber rig
ht)to
your gauge and see what level it gives to test the wiring and gauge. Can co
mpare
to other side. This ONLY applies if your system is set-up as I guessed.
Hard to say more without more details of the system.
Wade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Mueller <ed(at)muellerartcover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VDC Battery Minders |
I think I've voided more warranties then I can remember.
I wonder if a nice 4 position switch would give it a lot of versatility.
Ed
On Sep 30, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the
> difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight
> 12248. He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and
> Gill, use a chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other
> batteries and require a different charge profile. He said that the
> voltage is slightly lower and the time in the second phase of the
> charge cycle is longer, and the voltage in the float is lower. The
> de-sulfation circuit is exactly the same in all the models.
>
> They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey
> battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging
> profile because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a
> model for the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said
> that these are all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting,
> but not user accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played
> around with it.
>
> He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile
> charger for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would
> damage it. That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart
> charger would work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept
> reasonably charged by it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test.
> If a battery were to be left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger
> for a longer term float, one could mitigate the potential damage by
> setting to the "Gell cell" setting which floats at a lower voltage and
> wouldn't cook the battery off.
>
> I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all
> this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the
> people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep
> their batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas
> to keep them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and
> taking into account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the
> most versatile of their offerings. The chargers sense ambient
> temperature and so the $20 temp probe is of limited value is what we
> agreed. Your mileage may vary.
>
> By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15
> less than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I
> could find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but
> the guy said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week.
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VDC Battery Minders |
>
>Howdy,
>
>Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the
>difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight 12248.
>He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and Gill, use a
>chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other batteries and
>require a different charge profile. He said that the voltage is slightly
>lower and the time in the second phase of the charge cycle is longer, and
>the voltage in the float is lower. The de-sulfation circuit is exactly the
>same in all the models.
>
>They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey
>battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging profile
>because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a model for
>the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said that these are
>all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting, but not user
>accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played around with it.
>
>He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile charger
>for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would damage it.
>That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart charger would
>work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept reasonably charged by
>it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test. If a battery were to be
>left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger for a longer term float, one
>could mitigate the potential damage by setting to the "Gell cell" setting
>which floats at a lower voltage and wouldn't cook the battery off.
>
>I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all
>this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the
>people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep their
>batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas to keep
>them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and taking into
>account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the most versatile of
>their offerings. The chargers sense ambient temperature and so the $20
>temp probe is of limited value is what we agreed. Your mileage may vary.
>
>By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15 less
>than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I could
>find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but the guy
>said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week.
The only reason to put any kind of charger on an
RG battery is because you ran it down accidently
and you want to get it back to 80% or more capacity
before you fly again.
The self discharge rate on an RG battery is so low
that you should be able to put your airplane away
in the fall and come back next spring to crank it right
up.
If one insists on plugging the battery in for storage
every night and the battery was put away charged, the
charger won't even have a chance to do a full blown
recharge, top-off-drop-to-float cycle. This
slicing and dicing of float voltage from a charger
is mostly smoke and mirrors. Open circuit on a SVLA
battery at room temperature is right at 13.0 volts.
Ideal float voltage would be right at 13.0 volts too.
All you're wanting to do is externally offset the
internal leakage of the battery. Now if you really
screw up and float it at say 13.4 volts, the current
that flows into the battery will be somewhere around
30 mA on a 17 a.h. battery.
If you plan on routinely abusing the battery with
the "wrong charger" then perhaps there is value in
fine tuning the product. Keep in mind that your
airplane's electrical system really sucks for
air as a charging system. The alternator runs full-out
at recharge at top-off voltage until the recharge current
"breaks". Top-off voltage is maintained until engine
shut down. Typical recharge current after 2 hours of
flight will be on the order of 100 to 500 mA. No pampering
of the battery with a "float voltage" while in flight!
If I were chartered with crafting a new regulator
design, it would be software driven and have
some smarts that drops to a float voltage after
recharge is assured . . . increase in service life?
No idea. Won't launch into a $100K$ test program to
prove it one way or another.
I'll suggest that spending the $time$ to optimize
the recharging/maintaining of batteries in airplanes
is a lousy return on investment. If your battery
fails to meet manufacturer's fondest wishes
for a laboratory-pure service life, it's because
you have it bolted to an airplane . . . not because
you've charged it with the wrong charger.
Batteries used for motive power (golf carts, trolling,
weed eaters, etc) are another matter. These spend 99%
of their time on a charger getting replenished from
a deep-cycle service. You MIGHT see a couple more passes
around the yard or one more trip out onto the pond
by fine tuning the technology in the charger.
If you have a dead battery, charge it with ANYTHING
and go fly. If you're storing a battery for less than
60 days, don't beat it up with an unnecessary, less-than-
ideal charger. If you're storing over the winter,
take the battery home and put it on a Battery Tender
out in the garage until spring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VDC Battery Minders (follow up) |
>
>
> If one insists on plugging the battery in for storage
> every night and the battery was put away charged, the
> charger won't even have a chance to do a full blown
> recharge, top-off-drop-to-float cycle. This
> slicing and dicing of float voltage from a charger
> is mostly smoke and mirrors. Open circuit on a SVLA
> battery at room temperature is right at 13.0 volts.
> Ideal float voltage would be right at 13.0 volts too.
> All you're wanting to do is externally offset the
> internal leakage of the battery. Now if you really
> screw up and float it at say 13.4 volts, the current
> that flows into the battery will be somewhere around
> 30 mA on a 17 a.h. battery.
Just took one of my instrumentation SVLA batteries that
have been off the charger for several months. The open
circuit voltage was 13.03 volts. I hooked it to a
power supply set for 13.5 volts. As soon as the clips
touched, the 'charge' current jumped to over 1.5 amps.
Came back in 20 minutes at it was down to 0.013 amps
or 13 milliamps.
I raised the power supply to 13.6 volts. Again, charge
current jumped up to about 400 mA. But after 20 minutes,
it was again down around 0.022 amps or 22 mA.
This suggests that if I "floated" this battery anywhere
between 13.1 and 13.6 volts, it would be just fine.
In my shop, I used to keep the instrumentation batteries
all clipped in parallel on a single Battery Tender Jr.
That was several years ago. Now, after using a battery
to some task, I put it on the SC2500 (super-duper smart
charger with a switch for "deep-cycle", "AGM" and
"regular". I think the charger defaults to "regular"
when plugged in. I hook it to the battery, come back
in the morning and put the battery back on the shelf.
All of my batteries are still above 80% of new capacity
after 6 years with no special pampering to "optimize"
service life. Walmart generally stocks the Schumacher
SEM1562A for under $20. This is a fine low rate,
charger maintainer at a very attractive price. See
page 11 of
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
Glenn,
I used it on my RAC electric trim servo in the elevator so that I could
detach stab/elevator for transport. RAC wires are 26awg. Just expose an
extra long piece of wire, make a 'J' shaped loop in the trailer wire, wrap
the 26awg around the 14awg inside the J loop(5 or 6 wraps will do), crip
down on the J loop lightly, just to snug the wires together. Solder well
with high grade silver solder. When cooled cover soldered connection with a
piece of heat shrink. Your done. If you want to be extra careful, place a
piece of large diameter heat shrink over the wire bundle before starting any
of this and then heat shrink the entire 5 wire bundle under one piece, or
wrap the entire assembly in high quality electrical tape or silicon tape.
Hope that this helps,
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
> Mike,
> Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer
> connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I see
> a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they available
> without wires?
>
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Humphrey
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:58 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
>
> Glenn,
> Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing
> male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available
> anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc.
> Mike H 9A/8A
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
>>
>>
>> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights
> and
>> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
>> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost
> effective
>> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one
>> 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage
> unplugging,
>> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
>>
>> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am
> thinking
>> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to
>> feed them back through when the wing is removed.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
>
> Mike,
> Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer
> connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I see
> a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they available
> without wires?
>
Glenn,
It sounds as though you are thinking of the wrong connector.
Take a look at this:
http://www.delcity.net/delcity/servlet/catalog?parentid=8656&page=1
Your friendly local AutoZone, Kragen/Checker, NAPA, etc.,
will have an equivalent. The wires are installed with set screws,
so really small wire may need to be doubled or tripled up.
Dale R.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
Sounds like a plan, I'll give that a go.
Thanks Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Humphrey
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
-->
Glenn,
I used it on my RAC electric trim servo in the elevator so that I could
detach stab/elevator for transport. RAC wires are 26awg. Just expose
an
extra long piece of wire, make a 'J' shaped loop in the trailer wire,
wrap
the 26awg around the 14awg inside the J loop(5 or 6 wraps will do), crip
down on the J loop lightly, just to snug the wires together. Solder
well
with high grade silver solder. When cooled cover soldered connection
with a
piece of heat shrink. Your done. If you want to be extra careful, place
a
piece of large diameter heat shrink over the wire bundle before starting
any
of this and then heat shrink the entire 5 wire bundle under one piece,
or
wrap the entire assembly in high quality electrical tape or silicon
tape. Hope that this helps, Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
> Mike,
> Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer
> connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I
> see a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they
> available without wires?
>
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mike Humphrey
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:58 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
>
> Glenn,
> Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing
> male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available
> anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc. Mike H 9A/8A
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <longg(at)pjm.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
>
>
>>
>>
>> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights
> and
>> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead
>> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost
> effective
>> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access
>> (one 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage
> unplugging,
>> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome.
>>
>> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am
> thinking
>> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole
>> to feed them back through when the wing is removed.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a S700-2-10
switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5 amps steady state.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch question |
>
>Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a S700-2-10
>switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5 amps steady state.
>Thanks, Paul
It should be okay for this application. We've seen
a rash of failures for the Carling switches sold
by B&C and others . . . the ones with riveted fast-on
tabs. Be sure and install these with LOOSE coupling
between bundled wires and individual tabs . . . something
like 2" of free wire that has a pretty good bend
in it too.
I'm pretty convinced that the failures observed had
a beginning with too much mechanical stress on these
riveted joints. Once the pressure in the joint starts
to relax, resistance goes up and it's downhill from
there.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
Picked up the end of this thread late and wasn't
sure what kinds of wires were being considered.
For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs
are connectors of choice. They're inexpensive and
tooling for installing the machined pins is also
inexpensive. For transitions between the gawd-awful
26AWG leadwires on a RAC trim actuator, consider
this technique:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
If you need to break robust wires that carry
landing lights or pitot heat, consider this technique
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/wingwire/wingwire.html
or something similar.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Etienne Phillips" <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
2008/10/2 Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>
> For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs
> are connectors of choice.
Hi Bob
Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount
of current through an itty-bitty pin. Although here on the southern tip of
the dark continent, we don't get the machined pins, only the useless pressed
ones...
If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on
this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A
per pin. :-(
Etienne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch question |
Thanks Bob,
I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the
Microswitch part to match the 2-10 Carling.
Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number.
Thanks again, Paul
======================
At 09:10 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a
>>S700-2-10 switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5
>>amps steady state.
>>Thanks, Paul
>
> It should be okay for this application. We've seen
> a rash of failures for the Carling switches sold
> by B&C and others . . . the ones with riveted fast-on
> tabs. Be sure and install these with LOOSE coupling
> between bundled wires and individual tabs . . . something
> like 2" of free wire that has a pretty good bend
> in it too.
>
> I'm pretty convinced that the failures observed had
> a beginning with too much mechanical stress on these
> riveted joints. Once the pressure in the joint starts
> to relax, resistance goes up and it's downhill from
> there.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
>2008/10/2 Robert L. Nuckolls, III
><nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>><nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>>
>>For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs
>>are connectors of choice.
>
>Hi Bob
>
>Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount
>of current through an itty-bitty pin.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/HDC_Series.pdf
Note contact current rating of 7.5A. In aircraft wire
bundles this assumes a 20AWG wire. Of course, this
drops to what ever the smaller wire is de-rated to
for bundling . . . 5A in the case of 22AWG.
Conservative designers will look at total connector
current density and de-rate further if most or all
of the pins are continuously loaded to max rated.
The open barrel d-sub pins are generally rated the same electrically
but they're much more process sensitive to the installation of
single pins by the neophyte technician using tools like:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/bct-1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/obc-1.jpg
The machined pins are essentially mil-spec and installed
with either an inexpensive ratchet-handled 4-quadrant
crimp tool like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-3.jpg
or the super-cool, $high$ tool like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_2.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_3.jpg
All of which produce a consistent installation of a
machined pin.
Although here on the southern tip of the dark continent, we don't get the
machined pins,
only the useless pressed ones...
Steinair, and B&C both stock them.
>If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on
>this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A
>per pin. :-(
Then the $time$ invested to swap horses right now
is probably not a good investment. For others watching
this thread, know that it is possible and practical to
achieve nearly full-mil-spec connections in your small
wires using the really good pins and anybody's removable-pin
d-sub shells.
Know too that if you need to run more than 5-7 amps
though any one wire, you CAN parallel pins if you
include a 12" or so total length of 22AWG wire for
ballasting-resistance in series with each pin
(10-20 milliohms). This mall resistance washes
out pin-to-pin variables that make short-wire
paralleling risky. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg
I used this technique in a mil-qualified super-sonic
target
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg
power distribution controller . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_Power_Dist.jpg
to switch 20+ amp battery feeders. I de-rated to 3A
per pin, had 12" 22AWG wire in series with each of
7 paralleled pins to effect a high current feeder
through the d-sub. It passed all the qualification tests.
Bottom line is that the lowly D-Sub is an exceedingly
good value if you can exploit the simple-ideas behind
its design and amplications.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch question |
>
>Thanks Bob,
> I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the Microswitch
> part to match the 2-10 Carling.
>Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number.
>Thanks again, Paul
I published that last week:
-----------------------------------------------
Hi Bob,
Can you furnish a list of the Microswitch part numbers to correlate to the
various switch configurations as shown in Fig 11-14, particularly the
progressive transfer switches? I have some of the Carlings on hand, but am
considering switching to the more robust product line before installing
anything. Thanks.
William Slaughter
There's a Microswitch catalog for the TL series devices on
my server at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf
There is a correlation between the dash-numbers I adopted
(and B&C retained) for identifying switch functionality.
An S700-1-3 is a Micoroswitch 1TL1-3
An S700-2-10 is a Microswitch 2TL1-10
etc.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: D-Sub Connector Follow-up |
Hi Bob
Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount
of current through an itty-bitty pin.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/HDC_Series.pdf
Note contact current rating of 7.5A. In aircraft wire
bundles this assumes a 20AWG wire. Of course, this
drops to what ever the smaller wire is de-rated to
for bundling . . . 5A in the case of 22AWG.
Conservative designers will look at total connector
current density and de-rate further if most or all
of the pins are continuously loaded to max rated.
The open barrel d-sub pins are generally rated the same electrically
but they're much more process sensitive to the installation of
single pins by the neophyte technician using tools like:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/bct-1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/obc-1.jpg
The machined pins are essentially mil-spec and installed
with either an inexpensive ratchet-handled 4-quadrant
crimp tool like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-3.jpg
or the super-cool, $high$ tool like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_2.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_3.jpg
All of which produce a consistent installation of a
machined pin.
Although here on the southern tip of the dark continent, we don't get the
machined pins,
only the useless pressed ones...
Steinair, and B&C both stock them.
If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on
this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A
per pin. :-(
Then the $time$ invested to swap horses right now
is probably not a good investment. For others watching
this thread, know that it is possible and practical to
achieve nearly full-mil-spec connections in your small
wires using the really good pins and anybody's removable-pin
d-sub shells.
Know too that if you need to run more than 5-7 amps
though any one wire, you CAN parallel pins if you
include a 12" or so total length of 22AWG wire for
ballasting-resistance in series with each pin
(10-20 milliohms). This mall resistance washes
out pin-to-pin variables that make short-wire
paralleling risky. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg
I used this technique in a mil-qualified super-sonic
target
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg
power distribution controller . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_Power_Dist.jpg
to switch 20+ amp battery feeders. I de-rated to 3A
per pin, had 12" 22AWG wire in series with each of
7 paralleled pins to effect a high current feeder
through the d-sub. It passed all the qualification tests.
Bottom line is that the lowly D-Sub is an exceedingly
good value if you can exploit the simple-ideas behind
its design and applications.
Here's the tool/locator reference chart for those
of you who prowl about the hall of the auctions:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Tool-Locater_Cross_Reference.jpg
Note that there's a super-pin for D-subs that handles
a single 18AWG wire or two 22AWG wires. This pin's crimp
is at the back of a long pin where the wire grip resides
outside the connector shell.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [OT] Pronunciation question |
Robert McCallum a crit :
>
> Now, now Gilles. Lets not carry this too far. We could go on forever. Your
> command of English is excellent by the way. Far better than some whose first
> language is English.
>
Bob,
Thank you for your message.
Sorry for bothering everyone with non-electric questions.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
Bob:
My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of hardware is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and controllers:
ACS has many types...
Ameri-King Light Dimmers Solid State Light
Kits
Lc-40E/LC-40 Lighting Controllers Val CLA 500 Solid
State Assembly
Multiple Circuit Solid State Dimmers
MAX DIM DIMMER Control Unit
B&C's Dimmer System
VANS ES Dimmer
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
Henry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)comcast.net> |
"There's a Microswitch catalog for the TL series devices on
my server at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf
There is a correlation between the dash-numbers I adopted
(and B&C retained) for identifying switch functionality.
An S700-1-3 is a Micoroswitch 1TL1-3
An S700-2-10 is a Microswitch 2TL1-10
etc.
Bob . . ."
You can order them through DigiKey. Note that the TL series all use screw
terminals, but Honeywell has similar switches with Fast-On Tabs. It appears
that the -50 and -70 types are only available in the TL series. The Digikey
catalog page has all the details.
William Slaughter
RV-8QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question
Thanks Bob,
I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the
Microswitch part to match the 2-10 Carling.
Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number.
Thanks again, Paul
======================
At 09:10 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a
>>S700-2-10 switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5
>>amps steady state.
>>Thanks, Paul
>
> It should be okay for this application. We've seen
> a rash of failures for the Carling switches sold
> by B&C and others . . . the ones with riveted fast-on
> tabs. Be sure and install these with LOOSE coupling
> between bundled wires and individual tabs . . . something
> like 2" of free wire that has a pretty good bend
> in it too.
>
> I'm pretty convinced that the failures observed had
> a beginning with too much mechanical stress on these
> riveted joints. Once the pressure in the joint starts
> to relax, resistance goes up and it's downhill from
> there.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
I'm not Bob and this doesn't directly answer your question, but I saw an ad
in the current (8/08) issue of Sport Aviation, page 17, for a new dimmer
that looks interesting. http://pilotlights.net/
They sell various lights and light strips and stuff too.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henry
Trzeciakowski
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimmer Control Units
Bob:
My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of hardware is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and controllers:
ACS has many types...
Ameri-King Light Dimmers Solid State Light
Kits
Lc-40E/LC-40 Lighting Controllers Val CLA 500 Solid
State Assembly
Multiple Circuit Solid State Dimmers
MAX DIM DIMMER Control Unit
B&C's Dimmer System
VANS ES Dimmer
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
Henry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
The EN3 series from switchcraft is also a good choice available in both
bulkhead and cord mount, weather tite, not difficult to solder. They are
small, light, good strain relief, inexpensive and work well for the trim
system. I also have one in the panel for a Hand held radio power/audio
interface to the audio panel. (Available from Digikey
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P0394.pdf)
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/pdf_files/connector-28c_schematic.pdf
Ralph & Laura Hoover
RV7A N527LR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
Picked up the end of this thread late and wasn't
sure what kinds of wires were being considered.
For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs
are connectors of choice. They're inexpensive and
tooling for installing the machined pins is also
inexpensive. For transitions between the gawd-awful
26AWG leadwires on a RAC trim actuator, consider
this technique:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
If you need to break robust wires that carry
landing lights or pitot heat, consider this technique
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/wingwire/wingwire.html
or something similar.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
>
>The EN3 series from switchcraft is also a good choice available in both
>bulkhead and cord mount, weather tite, not difficult to solder. They are
>small, light, good strain relief, inexpensive and work well for the trim
>system. I also have one in the panel for a Hand held radio power/audio
>interface to the audio panel. (Available from Digikey
>http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P0394.pdf)
>
>
>http://www.switchcraft.com/products/pdf_files/connector-28c_schematic.pdf
>
>Ralph & Laura Hoover
>RV7A N527LR
Ralph, Thanks for the heads-up on this one! Price and specs
are right. I've added it to the Manufacture's data files at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Switchcraft/EN3_Digikey.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What is the best value battery right now? |
| From: | "Bubblehead" <jdalman2000(at)yahoo.com> |
I have an RV-8 with an IO-360 180 hp engine and need to replace the current battery.
I think it is a RG-25XC. In past topics I've seen the Odessey PC-680 mentioned
along with the Powersonic (?) PS-12180, Panasonic LC-X1220P and a LC-RD1217P.
Is there a current favorite that can be found for a reasonable price? If so, please
post name, model, and a good source.
Thanks,
John
--------
John Dalman
Elburn, IL
RV-8 N247TD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7260#207260
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is the best value battery right now? |
My Odyssey has been fabulous. never a problem once I got a marine battery in
instead of the Concordes
bobf
Glastar with LOM
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Bubblehead wrote:
> jdalman2000(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I have an RV-8 with an IO-360 180 hp engine and need to replace the current
> battery. I think it is a RG-25XC. In past topics I've seen the Odessey
> PC-680 mentioned along with the Powersonic (?) PS-12180, Panasonic LC-X1220P
> and a LC-RD1217P.
>
> Is there a current favorite that can be found for a reasonable price? If
> so, please post name, model, and a good source.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> --------
> John Dalman
> Elburn, IL
> RV-8 N247TD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7260#207260
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim-bean(at)att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | What is the best value battery right now? |
Yup get the Odessey..its 18Ah I think and unless you intend to do starts in sub
zero temps it will work great.
Mine is two years old..I keep it on a battery maintainer/charger and it works great..I
might run it for another year before changing.
Frank
RV7a IO360..IFR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bubblehead
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:30 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: What is the best value battery right now?
-->
I have an RV-8 with an IO-360 180 hp engine and need to replace the current battery.
I think it is a RG-25XC. In past topics I've seen the Odessey PC-680 mentioned
along with the Powersonic (?) PS-12180, Panasonic LC-X1220P and a LC-RD1217P.
Is there a current favorite that can be found for a reasonable price? If so, please
post name, model, and a good source.
Thanks,
John
--------
John Dalman
Elburn, IL
RV-8 N247TD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7260#207260
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "PSYCHOSE" <psychose(at)magma.ca> |
Hello Bob,
I am a similar situation as Brian, would it possible to let us know of the exact
components and values used to build the filter, perhaps a rough sketch of your
circuit?
regards,
Normand
--------
Normand Gingras RV8 wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7283#207283
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Normand,
Check out:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7287#207287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C William Sallas <bsallas(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 20 Amp Solid State Relay |
What is the status of AeroElectric's 20 amp solid state relay?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Baldwin" <jamesbaldwin(at)dc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | B+C alternator problem |
Bob (and anyone using the LR-3 regulator),
Before taking any drastic action like removing or replacing the LR3B
regulator I downloaded the troubleshooting guide from B+C. With my new DVM
I performed all of the suggested measurements and found the regulator to be
doing as it should, no abnormalities. I called Bill at B+C and asked about
the PTT (push to test) switch shown connected to pin 2 and what it did. It
shorts pin 6 right to ground internally for the OV test. He suggested that
the switch really wasn't needed and had given some problems to others in the
past. In my case it was the intermittent switch that was blowing fuses no
matter which value. So, if you have any problems with blowing the fuse or
C/B shown connected to the alternator field circuit this might be a factor.
Thanks to Bob for helping, the airplane is back in the air. JBB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "PSYCHOSE" <psychose(at)magma.ca> |
Thanks for your response Bob.
Pardon my ignorance, but I surmise that the capacitances and 100 mH inductance
included in your diagram are embedded in the "101" component we see in one of
the photos.
If this is correct, could you provide the part number of this device?
Finally, did you or Brian get a chance to test your design for EMI in the RF range?
regards,
Normand RV8 wings
--------
Normand Gingras RV8 wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7372#207372
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is the best value battery right now? |
>
>I have an RV-8 with an IO-360 180 hp engine and need to replace the
>current battery. I think it is a RG-25XC. In past topics I've seen the
>Odessey PC-680 mentioned along with the Powersonic (?) PS-12180, Panasonic
>LC-X1220P and a LC-RD1217P.
>
>Is there a current favorite that can be found for a reasonable price? If
>so, please post name, model, and a good source.
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
How do you quantify "value"? Lacking data beyond statements
like "My brand Z battery has been in the airplane 5 years
and it still starts my engine" what qualities in a battery
are most important to you. Further, how much $time$ are you
willing to spend to acquire, maintain and monitor that battery
for ability to meet your design goals?
If you're a day vfr airplane, don't care about alternator-out
endurance and will accept a risk of having to hand-prop the engine
or replace a battery off the home field, then anecdotal offerings
of 5-year service life may be useful to you.
On the other hand, if you have a design goal of x.x hours alternator-
out operation of the endurance bus then meeting the design goal
is driven not only by the demonstrated robustness of the battery
but your willingness to do periodic capacity tests to make sure
the design goals are not violated.
Right now, periodic capacity testing involves either running
your e-bus from the battery and seeing how long it takes to
get down to 11.0 volts -or- doing on-purpose capacity measurements
with some device like . .
http://westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm
that will allow you to do a precise evaluation of your
battery's ability to perform.
Here's where you have to make a judgement of value based
on the economics of $time$. You buy a battery for $time$,
buy a piece of test equipment for $time$ and then invest
$time$ at each determination for continued airworthiness
against your design goals. Nobody can advise you as to
the trade offs without knowing your personal quantification
on $time$.
I've often suggested that the highest value batter is that
which meets all design goals with a minimum expenditure
of $time$. Consider that if you buy the least expensive battery
you can find, say . . .
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=522-1014-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P231-ND
http://www.batteryuniverse.com/Sealed-Lead-Acid/CSB/GH12170/GZ12180NB_CSB_GH12170_Sealed-Lead-Acid
and divide the cost of acquisition by hours flown per year
and simply replace it every annual, you now have a hard data
number for the cost of meeting your design goals.
Periodic replacement of an inexpensive battery eliminates
the $time$ one is tempted to invest in a $high-quality$ battery,
$test-equipment$ and the $time$ to exercise that equipment
until the battery finally shows that it's no longer airworthy.
That's a decision that nobody can make for you. Further,
lacking that detail in a value-study, your choice of product
made from the anecdotal influences here on the List are
not much better than basing it on a television advertisement.
You will find a host of experiences ranging from "that's a
piece of trash" to "best battery since they started slicing
bread". Nobody is lying to you. Maybe nobody is trying to
persuade you. But if you NEED for the battery to perform
to some expectations for alternator-out endurance, none of
this will be useful data for getting the most return on
expenditure of your flying dollars.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
>
>Thanks for your response Bob.
>
>Pardon my ignorance, but I surmise that the capacitances and 100 mH
>inductance included in your diagram are embedded in the "101" component
>we see in one of the photos.
>
>If this is correct, could you provide the part number of this device?
>
>Finally, did you or Brian get a chance to test your design for EMI in the
>RF range?
>
>regards,
The input and output filters are 100 uH, 1A inductors
flanked both sides by 0.1 uF and 0.001 uF monolythic
ceramic capacitors.
The parts values are a WAG based on availability of
high-current surface mount inductors and inventory.
I was hoping to get a window of opportunity to run
the assembly through the lab for a quick look-see
at DO-160 conducted performance but it didn't come
to pass. So I had to forward the assembly you see to
Brian for A-B comparison in his as-installed environment.
Successful mitigation of Brian's observed interference
doesn't necessary mean we have the "golden design",
on that noises have been attenuated sufficiently
to meet his needs.
If it works for Brian, I'm willing to publish the
board artwork for the device along with the bill of
materials and sources. Haven't heard from Brian yet.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Hey guys,
I received the prototype sometime this week. I have been on vacation and will
test and report as soon as possible.
Most likely will be Monday or Tuesday evening.
Best regards,
Brian C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7394#207394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" <lrsecaldwell(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Split loom melting |
I have experanced melting of some of the black split loom I used an
conduit to prevent wire chaffing in my engine compartment. One piese
that melted was 6 or 7 inches from the exhaust tube.
Note that this is a recent problem that has occured after I add some
additional heat shield due to heat discoloration on the inside of the
lower cowl,
Has anyone else had this problem?
Does anyone have any data on what temperatue exists in the engine
compartment?
As an aside I did some informal tests of the black split loom and it
burns and is not self extinguishing.
Are thre any good fire resistant alternatives?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Split loom melting |
>Caldwell"
>
>I have experanced melting of some of the black split loom I used an
>conduit to prevent wire chaffing in my engine compartment. One piese
>that melted was 6 or 7 inches from the exhaust tube.
>
>Note that this is a recent problem that has occured after I add some
>additional heat shield due to heat discoloration on the inside of the
>lower cowl,
>
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Does anyone have any data on what temperatue exists in the engine compartment?
Temperatures under the cowl can range from ambient
(OAT at xx-thousands of feet in the winter) to
hundreds of degrees (radiant heating from exhaust
components). In the "big airplane factories" we've
had suppliers of spiral wrap, split loom and zippered
sleeve wire bundling products come and go. The
added cost, labor, maintenance and addition to weight
have never passed muster with the guys who tracked
cost-of-ownership for airplanes.
You can bet that should this technology be considered
worthy of flight in a TC aircraft, it would be made
from materials similar to the wire it protects . . . i.e.
Tefzel or one of the more exotic synthetics. Given
that Tefzel tie wraps are around $1.50 each in low
quantities, you can bet that the cost of Tefzel spiral
wrap is similarly breathtaking.
>As an aside I did some informal tests of the black split loom and it burns
>and is not self extinguishing.
>Are thre any good fire resistant alternatives?
Not aware of any. The popular nylons are probably
incapable of tolerating the localized heating situation
you've identified. You might consider re-routing the
bundle, running it through fire-sleeve, or some other
process that puts a barrier between your wire bundle
and the IR heat source that's pushing it over the
cliff. I'd vote for re-routing the wire bundle.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Split loom melting |
Bob,
Am I drawing the correct conclusion from your comments that using split loom
or most any "conduit" is NOT a preferred method of "protecting" a wire
bundle in the engine compartment?
I must admit that in my planning and building I have "assumed" conduit was
desirable from an appearance standpoint while not considering the
temperature the wires would be exposed to.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Eggenfellner Subaru E6Ti
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>>>Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:52 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Split loom melting
>>>
>>>
>>>Nuckolls, III"
>>>
>>>>Caldwell"
>>>>
>>>>I have experanced melting of some of the black split loom I used an
>>>>conduit to prevent wire chaffing in my engine compartment.
>>> One piese
>>>>that melted was 6 or 7 inches from the exhaust tube.
>>>>
>>>>Note that this is a recent problem that has occured after I
>>>add some
>>>>additional heat shield due to heat discoloration on the
>>>inside of the
>>>>lower cowl,
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>>>
>>>>Does anyone have any data on what temperatue exists in the
>>>engine compartment?
>>>
>>> Temperatures under the cowl can range from ambient
>>> (OAT at xx-thousands of feet in the winter) to
>>> hundreds of degrees (radiant heating from exhaust
>>> components). In the "big airplane factories" we've
>>> had suppliers of spiral wrap, split loom and zippered
>>> sleeve wire bundling products come and go. The
>>> added cost, labor, maintenance and addition to weight
>>> have never passed muster with the guys who tracked
>>> cost-of-ownership for airplanes.
>>>
>>> You can bet that should this technology be considered
>>> worthy of flight in a TC aircraft, it would be made
>>> from materials similar to the wire it protects . . . i.e.
>>> Tefzel or one of the more exotic synthetics. Given
>>> that Tefzel tie wraps are around $1.50 each in low
>>> quantities, you can bet that the cost of Tefzel spiral
>>> wrap is similarly breathtaking.
>>>
>>>>As an aside I did some informal tests of the black split
>>>loom and it burns
>>>>and is not self extinguishing.
>>>>Are thre any good fire resistant alternatives?
>>>
>>> Not aware of any. The popular nylons are probably
>>> incapable of tolerating the localized heating situation
>>> you've identified. You might consider re-routing the
>>> bundle, running it through fire-sleeve, or some other
>>> process that puts a barrier between your wire bundle
>>> and the IR heat source that's pushing it over the
>>> cliff. I'd vote for re-routing the wire bundle.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------)
>>> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
>>> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
>>> ( appearance of being right . . . )
>>> ( )
>>> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>Date: 10/5/2008 9:20 AM
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Split loom melting |
>
>Bob,
>
>Am I drawing the correct conclusion from your comments that using split loom
>or most any "conduit" is NOT a preferred method of "protecting" a wire
>bundle in the engine compartment?
Don't know how to define "preferred". If you look under
the cowl of a TC aircraft,
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_B.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/A36_Firewall_A.jpg
You can see that the designers use the UV/ozone resistant Tie-Straps
and MS21919 clamps. No other protection is considered necessary.
>I must admit that in my planning and building I have "assumed" conduit was
>desirable from an appearance standpoint while not considering the
>temperature the wires would be exposed to.
Tefzel wire is good to 150C . . . I'd take the low
temperature plastic stuff clear out of the engine
compartment. Then keep and eye on the bundle adjacent
to the observed damage . . . just to be sure you're
not bumping the Tefzel limits.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | EIS interference |
Problem: The EIS engine monitors are annunciating random "phantom" alarm
messages, indicating a monitored parameter has exceeded a set limit. These
include high or low EGT&CHT alarms, voltage levels, pressure levels
etc. Of particular interest is that on the EFIS engine monitor page there
is a graphic representation of CHT/EGT readings on a time scale (similar to
a seismograph trace). This shows a trace history of these temps as
continuous lines advancing across the screen. On the trace lines of the
EGTs in particular there are obvious spikes (plus and minus). The duration
of each spike is virtually instantaneous and indicate an increase or
decrease in EGT of from 50-200 degrees, assuming they were accurate. The
spike frequency is random, sometimes occurring 10-15 seconds apart, often
much closer- frequency appears to be highest after engine start, and less
frequent as the battery recharges. These spikes appear to be systemic as
the alarms being generated are not limited to EGT/CHT (the only data shown
as traces) as noted above.
Since these are strong anomalies in perceived data, one should
not discount the probability that the noise is coming in through
the temperature sensor leads (thermocouples I presume) that
may or may not electrically float at the engine end. The idea
T/C installation does NOT make electrical contact with the surface
being measured so that signal ground occurs at the instrument and
is not duplicated at the crankcase.
At first is seemed to be caused by the Right magneto, as grounding it
eliminates the spikes, but many attempts at relocating the P-leads and even
disconnecting them entirely made no improvement. P-leads are 18 gauge
shielded, single conductor using the shields to complete the circuit to a
L/R/Start type keyswitch. Any electrical wiring or components near the mag
were relocated with no improvement. Suppressor wires and plugs were tried
with no change. Replacing the mag also did nothing.
Bad mags don't cause this . . . Try running the system with all
P-leads disconnected at the engine. Kill the engine with fuel cutoff.
Totally eliminate p-lead wiring as part of the propagation
pathway.
Suspecting the rather basic rectifier/regulator, I checked the Z-figures
and notes relating to the Jabiru and experimented with a 30,000uF 30VDC
electrolytic capacitor between the regulator output and ground. This
clipped the tops of the highest of the spikes shown on the EGT traces, but
had little other effect. Another experiment was to disconnect the
alternator output leads from the regulator and run strictly on the battery,
but the spikes persisted. (All connections to the regulator are
butt-spliced, soldered & shrink-wrapped) This leads me to believe it has
nothing to do with the charging system and is specific to the Right magneto.
Unlikely that the alternator/rectifier/regulator is a culprit here
too. There are no events that occur in normal or abnormal operation
of the power generation at 10-15 second intervals.
I've run out of ideas- all suggestions welcome!
I'd still like to experiment with a better rectifier/regulator, but unsure
where to hunt one down- perhaps others have found reliable substitutions?
(The B&C PRM1C-14 is limited to 14 amps continuous- 30-35 is required)
If you've run the system with the alternator OFF and the
problem persists, then it's not a problem with either the
alternator or the rectifier/regulator. Have you tried running
the EIS system from a dedicated set of dry cells? A power source
separate from the ship's bus.
Does the airplane have a single point firewall ground? What
is the airplane's structure?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EIS interference |
In a message dated 10/5/2008 8:40:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:
Since these are strong anomalies in perceived data, one should
not discount the probability that the noise is coming in through
the temperature sensor leads (thermocouples I presume) that
may or may not electrically float at the engine end. The idea
T/C installation does NOT make electrical contact with the surface
being measured so that signal ground occurs at the instrument and
is not duplicated at the crankcase.
>>>>>
Understand. CHT thermocouples used are TC wires crimped to ring terminals
under spark plugs (supplied by GRT) and obviously grounded at head- EGTs are
standard GRT probes inserted into exhaust pipes held in place by hose clamps.
Experiment would be removing all CHT probes to eliminate grounding at head?
This might pinpoint the antagonist, but without dedicated wells for
bayonet-type probes, how to monitor CHTs?
Bad mags don't cause this . . . Try running the system with all
P-leads disconnected at the engine. Kill the engine with fuel cutoff.
Totally eliminate p-lead wiring as part of the propagation
pathway.
>>>>
Disconnecting Right mag had no effect- will try both...
Unlikely that the alternator/rectifier/regulator is a culprit here
too. There are no events that occur in normal or abnormal operation
of the power generation at 10-15 second intervals.
>>>>>
My tentative conclusion as well, but just checking!
If you've run the system with the alternator OFF and the
problem persists, then it's not a problem with either the
alternator or the rectifier/regulator. Have you tried running
the EIS system from a dedicated set of dry cells? A power source
separate from the ship's bus.
>>>>>
This was next on the experiment list, but if isolated power to instrument
eliminates problem, doesn't that point back to a problem with power supplied to
the EIS with a finger aimed at the alternator/regulator system? Any problem
powering EIS from a separate PC-625 VLSA batt instead of the dry cells?
Does the airplane have a single point firewall ground? What
is the airplane's structure?
>>>>
They properly employ forest-of-tabs from B&C. Composite structure,
stainless firewall over plywood bonded to structure.
Appreciate the reply Bob- will report on experiments...
Mark
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EIS interference |
>In a message dated 10/5/2008 8:40:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:
>
> Since these are strong anomalies in perceived data, one should
> not discount the probability that the noise is coming in through
> the temperature sensor leads (thermocouples I presume) that
> may or may not electrically float at the engine end. The idea
> T/C installation does NOT make electrical contact with the surface
> being measured so that signal ground occurs at the instrument and
> is not duplicated at the crankcase.
> >>>>>
>Understand. CHT thermocouples used are TC wires crimped to ring terminals
>under spark plugs (supplied by GRT) and obviously grounded at head- EGTs
>are standard GRT probes inserted into exhaust pipes held in place by hose
>clamps. Experiment would be removing all CHT probes to eliminate
>grounding at head? This might pinpoint the antagonist, but without
>dedicated wells for bayonet-type probes, how to monitor CHTs?
>
Okay, I'm betting that the T/C signal for each
input goes to a AD595 or similar thermocouple
conditioning chip. These are high gain op amps
with limited common mode. When you ground the t/c
at the engine end, you MUST keep the signal ground
for the instrument tightly bonded to the crankcase
too. If you have too small, too shared, too long
of wires in ground system, common mode noises from
about anywhere in the system can get into those
microvolt-sensitive inputs to the TC conditioners.
> >>>>>
>This was next on the experiment list, but if isolated power to instrument
>eliminates problem, doesn't that point back to a problem with power
>supplied to the EIS with a finger aimed at the alternator/regulator
>system? Any problem powering EIS from a separate PC-625 VLSA batt instead
>of the dry cells?
any source of 12v will do. But only tells you what the
propagation path is . . . not the antagonist. Sub
the 12 supply (+) first. Don't mess with grounds.
If the noise is still there, then move the EIS ground
directly to the crankcase and see what happens.
> Does the airplane have a single point firewall ground? What
> is the airplane's structure?
> >>>>
>They properly employ forest-of-tabs from B&C. Composite structure,
>stainless firewall over plywood bonded to structure.
Okay, make sure that the EIS instrument power ground
gets it's own dedicated wire to the forest of tabs.
Check that the bond strap from crankcase to forest
of tabs is suited to task. 4AWG wire or bigger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi Bob,
I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
(spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
washers though that that may be overkill.
If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
Do you have any concerns of using this method?
Thank you,
/\/elson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Ronco" <joe(at)halzel.com> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
DAVID: Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for Page 3610. There is a
large selection of copper bar stock.
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E.
Nelson
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
Hi Bob,
I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
(spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
washers though that that may be overkill.
If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
Do you have any concerns of using this method?
Thank you,
/\/elson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AeroElectric-list : [ Terry McMillan ] : New Email |
List PhotoShare Available!
| From: | Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming
Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered
why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter
and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt)
A new Email List PhotoShare is available:
Poster: Terry McMillan
Lists: AeroElectric-list,RV-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV10-List,RV9-List
Subject: Dual Battery System
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/terryml5c2p6@sympatico.ca.10.06.2008
----------------------------------------------------------
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Split loom melting |
Roger,
I'm using Thermo-Tec Thermo Sleeve tape to protect wiring exposed to heat.
It withstands 2000F so it should do well in all situations up to and
including a fire.
Here is a link to one source - although if you search the net a bit you can
find better prices.
_http://www.autobarn.net/thhowiprta.html_
(http://www.autobarn.net/thhowiprta.html)
On my hoses I used the thermo sleeve and on things that are
difficult/impossible to pull a sleeve on, I used the tape. It presents a much
nicer
appearance on the engine than standard red fire sleeve.
You could even use the sleeve and split it along the seam, cover the wires,
and then tape it with the thermo tape to hold it in place. I've also used
safety wire on the ends to hold it.
Another good option is sleeving that is designed for wires and can be slit
to fit on the wires. It's good to 750F and comes in several colors. You can
see it at _https://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=17078/681.0_
(https://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=17078/681.0)
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
I have experanced melting of some of the black split loom I used an
conduit to prevent wire chaffing in my engine compartment. One piese
that melted was 6 or 7 inches from the exhaust tube.
Note that this is a recent problem that has occured after I add some
additional heat shield due to heat discoloration on the inside of the
lower cowl,
Has anyone else had this problem?
Does anyone have any data on what temperatue exists in the engine
compartment?
As an aside I did some informal tests of the black split loom and it
burns and is not self extinguishing.
Are thre any good fire resistant alternatives?
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining,
Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Try a hobby store. They are most likely to have those products.
On Oct 6, 2008, at 11:54 AM, David E. Nelson wrote:
> >
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/
> straps to make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS
> Engineering' (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in
> the likes of Lowes, Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed
> (ie. soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth
> jaws to make some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I
> think the wall thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of
> silver soldering brass washers though that that may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM
> which is somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem
> overkill, I chose 1/2" over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge
> distance (a little over 1/4") around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
I found the K&S display at a hobby shop. They might also be at craft stores.
In lieu of that, the flattened tubing is an accepted, time-honored method in
the experimental world.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of David E. Nelson
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:54 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
> -->
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper
> sheet/straps to make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars.
> The 'KS Engineering'
> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the
> likes of Lowes, Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2"
> annealed (ie.
> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth
> jaws to make some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around
> .098" (I think the wall thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then
> thinking of silver soldering brass washers though that that
> may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500
> CM which is somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may
> seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little
> over 1/4") around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Why complicate things:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2009Individual/Cat09466.pdf
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
> washers though that that may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition problem - any suggestions? |
Hi All, I'm posting this for a friend who is not a member and is trying
to diagnose an electronic ignition problem. Any thoughts would be
gratefully received.
I have an interesting problem with my electronic ignition that I'd
appreciate further opinion on. My RV6 has an O-320 with a Slick magneto
on the left drive and Electroair EIS on the right drive. The EIS is a
dual coil, lost spark system (each coil fires 2 opposing cylinders on
both compression and exhaust stroke), and has been successfully operated
for 480 hours.
The problem is that each time I go to take off the engine misfires when
full power is applied. I am getting 2150 rpm static, and as the plane
accelerates at full power, after 10-15 seconds the engine starts to
misfire. The misfires occur at roughly 1-2 seconds frequency and last
for 200-700 milliseconds. There is never any backfiring.
I've conducted one flight, and found that as soon as I eased the climb
and reduced power, the problem went away. I was able to fly at 2,600 rpm
with no problems, and could not re-create the misfire whilst airborne.
Because there is no backfiring, I initially assumed a problem with fuel
supply. This has been eliminated, and I have been testing the ignition
system whilst static on the ground.
I connected an oscilloscope input to an ignition lead and the trace gave
large spikes at every 1/2 engine revolution as expected. However,
intermediate lower amplitude spikes were also observed at 2/3 to 3/4 of
the main spike period. This occurs throughout the full rev range,
including clean running.
I also tested the signal output from the magneto timing housing. It was
found to have irregular modulation and an irregular gap.
I don't know what signal the processor unit can tolerate, but I think
that the irregular signal from the timing sensor may be the issue.
However, the manufacturer still suggests that the charge is arcing out
through either the leads or plugs.
Having replaced both the leads and plugs, and that there's no evidence
or arcing through either the power or earth connections, I think it's a
fault with the unit.
One significant point is that when I turn off the EIS, the engine runs
perfectly on the single magneto. When the EIS is turned back on and the
misfire occurs, I would expect the magneto to continue firing as normal.
I think it probably is, but there's no fuel left to burn and the
misfiring is caused by wrongly timed sparks from the EIS igniting fuel
in the cylinders before the mixture is compressed and ignited by the
magneto.
Am I missing something? Any thoughts would be much appreciated
Regards, James
RV6 G-JSRV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi All,
It appears that I've miscommunicated my intentions via the subject line as
I should not have used the word 'buss-bar'. Sorry about that.
What I was aiming for was the big copper jumpers between the master relay,
starter contactor, and the ANL current limiter base that are mounted on
the firewall of an RV-7A.
Regards,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition problem - any suggestions? |
Peter, I once had a vehicle with a conventional points ignition system and
the same problems. The answer was exactly as Electroair is telling you. The
vehicle was an early Ford Econoline Van, the kind with the engine in a metal
doghouse between the driver and passenger seats. I left the cover off one
night to try and diagnose the misfiring by ear and sorted it out by eye
instead. Most amazing light show I've ever seen so close up. New plug wires
with a high temperature rated silicone insulation did the trick. If you're
running car plugs for the EIS system I'd make new plug wires, as A: it's the
quickest to eliminate on the list of probables, B: Costs little as airplane
parts go, C: If the condition doesn't change you're in a better position to
ask for more help from Electroair, and D: If it does work you're flyin'
again.
Rick
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> peter(at)sportingaero.com>
>
> Hi All, I'm posting this for a friend who is not a member and is trying
> to diagnose an electronic ignition problem. Any thoughts would be
> gratefully received.
>
> I have an interesting problem with my electronic ignition that I'd
> appreciate further opinion on. My RV6 has an O-320 with a Slick magneto
> on the left drive and Electroair EIS on the right drive. The EIS is a
> dual coil, lost spark system (each coil fires 2 opposing cylinders on
> both compression and exhaust stroke), and has been successfully operated
> for 480 hours.
>
> The problem is that each time I go to take off the engine misfires when
> full power is applied. I am getting 2150 rpm static, and as the plane
> accelerates at full power, after 10-15 seconds the engine starts to
> misfire. The misfires occur at roughly 1-2 seconds frequency and last
> for 200-700 milliseconds. There is never any backfiring.
>
> I've conducted one flight, and found that as soon as I eased the climb
> and reduced power, the problem went away. I was able to fly at 2,600 rpm
> with no problems, and could not re-create the misfire whilst airborne.
> Because there is no backfiring, I initially assumed a problem with fuel
> supply. This has been eliminated, and I have been testing the ignition
> system whilst static on the ground.
>
> I connected an oscilloscope input to an ignition lead and the trace gave
> large spikes at every 1/2 engine revolution as expected. However,
> intermediate lower amplitude spikes were also observed at 2/3 to 3/4 of
> the main spike period. This occurs throughout the full rev range,
> including clean running.
>
> I also tested the signal output from the magneto timing housing. It was
> found to have irregular modulation and an irregular gap.
>
> I don't know what signal the processor unit can tolerate, but I think
> that the irregular signal from the timing sensor may be the issue.
> However, the manufacturer still suggests that the charge is arcing out
> through either the leads or plugs.
>
> Having replaced both the leads and plugs, and that there's no evidence
> or arcing through either the power or earth connections, I think it's a
> fault with the unit.
>
> One significant point is that when I turn off the EIS, the engine runs
> perfectly on the single magneto. When the EIS is turned back on and the
> misfire occurs, I would expect the magneto to continue firing as normal.
> I think it probably is, but there's no fuel left to burn and the
> misfiring is caused by wrongly timed sparks from the EIS igniting fuel
> in the cylinders before the mixture is compressed and ignited by the
> magneto.
>
> Am I missing something? Any thoughts would be much appreciated
>
> Regards, James
> RV6 G-JSRV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
>
>DAVID: Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for Page 3610. There is a
>large selection of copper bar stock.
>
>Joe R
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E.
>Nelson
>Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:54 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
>
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
>make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
>(spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
>Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
>Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
>soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
>some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
>thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
>washers though that that may be overkill.
>
>If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
>somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
>over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
>around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
>Do you have any concerns of using this method?
What you propose is probably okay but a lot of
work. Joe had a good solution. 4AWG equivalent
is sufficient for between contactor jumpers.
4AWG is .2" diam, or 0.031 square inches of copper.
This says .031" x 1" would do. One inch is a bit
wide and .031 is thin to work with so take a look
at 8964K712 at http://Mcmaster.com
It's 3/4 wide x .062 thick for 0.043 square inches
for about a 3AWG equivalent. Plenty robust and it will
look a whole lot nicer when you're done.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition problem - any suggestions? |
I wouldn't waste any time thinking about this until first replacing the
spark plugs (seriously) and then the wires but apparently that has been
done. I've also seen failing ignition coils do what you describe.
Electroair coils look like GM automotive coils which would mean they may
be cheap to replace??
A multi tooth pickup wheel will have a repeating irregular pulse pattern
AND the pulse voltage will vary accordingly. All teeth are not evenly
spaced or there is at least one tooth missing to establish timing. I
don't know how reliable the Electroair pickup has been but it would not
be my first suspect.
A scope will show an amazing amount of noise on both primary and
secondary sides of these coils. As long as it is a regular repeating
pattern, it is probably normal. Yes they are of similar voltage to what
fires the plugs. I'd only be suspicious if they are non repeating spikes.
Ken
Peter Pengilly wrote:
>
> Hi All, I'm posting this for a friend who is not a member and is trying
> to diagnose an electronic ignition problem. Any thoughts would be
> gratefully received.
>
> I have an interesting problem with my electronic ignition that I'd
> appreciate further opinion on. My RV6 has an O-320 with a Slick magneto
> on the left drive and Electroair EIS on the right drive. The EIS is a
> dual coil, lost spark system (each coil fires 2 opposing cylinders on
> both compression and exhaust stroke), and has been successfully operated
> for 480 hours.
>
> The problem is that each time I go to take off the engine misfires when
> full power is applied. I am getting 2150 rpm static, and as the plane
> accelerates at full power, after 10-15 seconds the engine starts to
> misfire. The misfires occur at roughly 1-2 seconds frequency and last
> for 200-700 milliseconds. There is never any backfiring.
>
> I've conducted one flight, and found that as soon as I eased the climb
> and reduced power, the problem went away. I was able to fly at 2,600 rpm
> with no problems, and could not re-create the misfire whilst airborne.
> Because there is no backfiring, I initially assumed a problem with fuel
> supply. This has been eliminated, and I have been testing the ignition
> system whilst static on the ground.
>
> I connected an oscilloscope input to an ignition lead and the trace gave
> large spikes at every 1/2 engine revolution as expected. However,
> intermediate lower amplitude spikes were also observed at 2/3 to 3/4 of
> the main spike period. This occurs throughout the full rev range,
> including clean running.
>
> I also tested the signal output from the magneto timing housing. It was
> found to have irregular modulation and an irregular gap.
>
> I don't know what signal the processor unit can tolerate, but I think
> that the irregular signal from the timing sensor may be the issue.
> However, the manufacturer still suggests that the charge is arcing out
> through either the leads or plugs.
>
> Having replaced both the leads and plugs, and that there's no evidence
> or arcing through either the power or earth connections, I think it's a
> fault with the unit.
>
> One significant point is that when I turn off the EIS, the engine runs
> perfectly on the single magneto. When the EIS is turned back on and the
> misfire occurs, I would expect the magneto to continue firing as normal.
> I think it probably is, but there's no fuel left to burn and the
> misfiring is caused by wrongly timed sparks from the EIS igniting fuel
> in the cylinders before the mixture is compressed and ignited by the
> magneto.
>
> Am I missing something? Any thoughts would be much appreciated
>
> Regards, James
> RV6 G-JSRV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Riggs <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Try here.
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
Lynn A. Riggs
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
----- Original Message ----
From: David E. Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 12:54:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
Hi Bob,
I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
(spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
washers though that that may be overkill.
If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
Do you have any concerns of using this method?
Thank you,
/\/elson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the lead. Wow, McMaster just seems to have everything. Wouldn't it
be nice to be able to just stroll through the isles?
Anyways, looked at the available stock. They seem to only stock "Temper: Hard
(H04)" for the sizes that I'm interested in. Just how "hard" is H04? I need
to be able to put either a 90 deg bend or a twist (depending on where I put the
ANL current limiter block).
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Joe Ronco wrote:
>
> DAVID: Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for Page 3610. There is a
> large selection of copper bar stock.
>
> Joe R
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E.
> Nelson
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:54 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
>
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
> washers though that that may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | B&C Crowbar with diode |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Nelson,
AircraftSpruce, Wag aero, Chief, Onlinemetals.com sell the copper bar that
you need.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
> washers though that that may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi Steve,
That was next on my list. Honestly, I'm getting tired of driving around with
zero results and dumb looks by clerks/staff. While I could phone ahead to some
of the places, getting somebody knowledgeable has, in the past, proven to be
somewhat of an "experience".
The materials I listed I've in the garage and I could assemble them in little
time. I'm hoping that Bob will look favorably at my approach and maybe help
somebody else that may be in the same situation as me. If not, that's Ok, too.
Then on to "Plan B" - whatever that might be. ;)
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Steve Thomas wrote:
>
> Try a hobby store. They are most likely to have those products.
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2008, at 11:54 AM, David E. Nelson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
>> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
>> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
>> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>>
>> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
>> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
>> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
>> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
>> washers though that that may be overkill.
>>
>> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
>> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
>> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
>> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>>
>> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> /\/elson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi Bob,
Thank you for replying. From Joe's email, I was reviewing the selections.
I'll either need to twist or bend a tab from the relay/contactor to the ANL
current limiter block. My main concern here is the 'Hard (H04) Temper'
characteristic. I have no idea how to relate to 'H04'. Do you have any
comparative annecdotes? ;)
Thank you,
/\/elson
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>>
>> DAVID: Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for Page 3610. There is a
>> large selection of copper bar stock.
>>
>> Joe R
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E.
>> Nelson
>> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 12:54 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
>> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
>> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
>> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>>
>> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
>> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
>> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
>> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
>> washers though that that may be overkill.
>>
>> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
>> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
>> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
>> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>>
>> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> What you propose is probably okay but a lot of
> work. Joe had a good solution. 4AWG equivalent
> is sufficient for between contactor jumpers.
> 4AWG is .2" diam, or 0.031 square inches of copper.
> This says .031" x 1" would do. One inch is a bit
> wide and .031 is thin to work with so take a look
> at 8964K712 at http://Mcmaster.com
>
> It's 3/4 wide x .062 thick for 0.043 square inches
> for about a 3AWG equivalent. Plenty robust and it will
> look a whole lot nicer when you're done.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Hi Lynn,
I considered that part with my recent order from B&C. However, from a previous
considered marginal for the edge distance even though it has performed well in
the field. I was looking for a better alternative.
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Lynn Riggs wrote:
>
> Try here.
> http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
>
> Lynn A. Riggs
> http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: David E. Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 12:54:05 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I'm having a heck of a time finding either brass or copper sheet/straps to
> make the contactor-to-contactor buss bars. The 'KS Engineering'
> (spelling?) display seems to have become quite rare in the likes of Lowes,
> Home Depot, and Ace Hardware.
>
> Looking around the shop, I was thinking of taking some 1/2" annealed (ie.
> soft) copper tubing and flattening it out in a vise w/ smooth jaws to make
> some ~3/4" "bar" with a thinkness of around .098" (I think the wall
> thinkness is .049, IIRC). I was then thinking of silver soldering brass
> washers though that that may be overkill.
>
> If my math is right, this comes out to something around 93500 CM which is
> somewhere between 1 and 0 AWG. While this may seem overkill, I chose 1/2"
> over 3/8" tubing to allow plenty of edge distance (a little over 1/4")
> around the 5/16" contactor bolts.
>
> Do you have any concerns of using this method?
>
> Thank you,
> /\/elson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
>
>
>Hi Steve,
>
>That was next on my list. Honestly, I'm getting tired of driving around
>with zero results and dumb looks by clerks/staff. While I could phone
>ahead to some of the places, getting somebody knowledgeable has, in the
>past, proven to be somewhat of an "experience".
>
>The materials I listed I've in the garage and I could assemble them in
>little time. I'm hoping that Bob will look favorably at my approach and
>maybe help somebody else that may be in the same situation as me. If not,
>that's Ok, too. Then on to "Plan B" - whatever that might be. ;)
Many folks have done what you've proposed. I'm aware
of no particular difficulties.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
>
>
>Hi Lynn,
>
>I considered that part with my recent order from B&C. However, from a
>.5" width was considered marginal for the edge distance even though it has
>performed well in the field. I was looking for a better alternative.
That IS bus bar stock made from brass (several
times higher resistance than copper) but narrow
enough for use at the relatively low currents
experienced at the breaker panel.
For conductors in the cranking current path,
real copper is much better.
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Thank you for replying. From Joe's email, I was reviewing the selections.
>I'll either need to twist or bend a tab from the relay/contactor to the
>ANL current limiter block. My main concern here is the 'Hard (H04) Temper'
>characteristic. I have no idea how to relate to 'H04'. Do you have any
>comparative annecdotes? ;)
I don't think you're going to find copper in any
harness that will make your task difficult.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Split loom melting |
It is more likely radiant energy than actual air temperature that is the
problem. Perhaps your new heat shield is reflecting some heat back
toward your wiring?? Some low dollar solutions that I've used include:
For mild exposure, wrapping the exposed section of wire etc. with
silicone tape will reflect some heat and that nicely protects a rubber
engine mount for me. Silicone is good for up to at least 500F surface
temp. This is essentially what the outer layer of fire sleeve is
composed of I believe.
Wrapping with aluminum foil reflects even more heat.
A metal heat shield between the exhaust and the wires or hoses that are
exposed is probably preferred if you can't relocate the wires. I have
not had any problem with 0.020 aluminum shields even when quite close to
exhaust pipes.
Ken
>
> I have experanced melting of some of the black split loom I used an
> conduit to prevent wire chaffing in my engine compartment. One piese
> that melted was 6 or 7 inches from the exhaust tube.
>
> Note that this is a recent problem that has occured after I add some
> additional heat shield due to heat discoloration on the inside of the
> lower cowl,
>
> Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Does anyone have any data on what temperatue exists in the engine
> compartment?
>
> As an aside I did some informal tests of the black split loom and it
> burns and is not self extinguishing.
> Are thre any good fire resistant alternatives?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper buss-bar from copper tubing |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Thank you for replying. From Joe's email, I was reviewing the
>> selections. I'll either need to twist or bend a tab from the
>> relay/contactor to the ANL current limiter block. My main concern
>> here is the 'Hard (H04) Temper' characteristic. I have no idea how to
>> relate to 'H04'. Do you have any comparative annecdotes? ;)
>
> I don't think you're going to find copper in any
> harness that will make your task difficult.
>
> Bob . . .
And ... flattening the ends of copper tubing will work-harden it. You
may want to anneal it after you get the fit right.
Dale R.
COZY MkIV #0497
Ch. 13
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HAPPY Instrumentation on Jabiru 3300 (so far) |
-ain't breakin' out the Champagne yet, but here is current synopsis:
Further analysis determines that due to FWF packaging considerations the VDO
fuel pressure sender provided by GRT with the EIS package is located about
1" from the right magneto harness and about 3" from the automotive-style
distributor. Suspicion is that arcing between the rotor and distributor cap is
impressing emf pulses on the sender somehow. Removing the 2 wires to the
sender result in zero spikes on the EGT/CHT traces and any other phantom alarms.
Hmmm... Victim identified? Fuel hoses to sender are lengthened and an
extension for the electrical connections is fabricated from 22AWG wire using
faston connectors- this "pigtail" is about 12" in length with the wires tightly
twisted. Idea is to experiment with sender location by manually moving it
around in the engine compartment with engine running and review effects on EGT
trace spikes.
On initial engine start, trace spikes are completely gone, regardless of
sender positioning or orientation between the engine and firewall. Locating
sender in close proximity to either distributor or magneto results in clean
spike-free EGT traces. Sender is re-mounted to engine mount about 2" farther
away from previous location to magneto harness with pigtail still installed.
EIS is fat, dumb & happy with no phantom alarms, no spikes present on EGT or
CHT traces.
Ya think I'd be shickled titless by this, but I can't explain WHY, dammit...
Measured resistance using a Fluke multimeter indicates .2 ohms on each lead
of extension. Here's the question: Is it the additional resistance in the
connections to the sender (length of extension), or the fact that they are
tightly twisted (about 10 turns per inch) that resolved (band-aided?) this issue?
"Problem" "appears" to be solved, but without knowing why. Serendipity? I
don't buy it. Awaiting knowledgeable insights or explanations...
A big THANKS! for all of those who have chimed in with their thoughts and
suggestions...
Mark
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Samuelian <psamuelian(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
Henry:
Re: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of
hardware is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and
controllers:
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
Rheostats are inefficient in that they convert energy into heat while
dimming. Heat is not a good thing behind your panel. A rheostat can
get so hot that you can smell it while flying. This can be
disconcerting, to say the least.
Solid state units usually have heatsinks, indicating that they are
also inefficient, but not as bad as rheostats.
Other considerations are size. Rheostats are relatively small, while
solid state units are usually 2 pieces (large control circuit with
heat sink and small rheostat or pot in the panel).
The latest unit on the market as you mentioned is the MaxDim. It is
completely solid state and self contained. It fits in the same space
as a rheostat. There is no heat, no heatsink, no space penalty,
weighs 1 ounce. It is an FAA-PMA part and STCd for certified
aircraft. That means it has gone through rigorous testing and passed.
There is no EMI as with some other solid state units to interfere
with your radio systems.
Extremely easy wiring: 3 wires... Ground, power, and dim.
And now the shameless plug... I'm a dealer for this product and sell
them on ebay below ACS' price.
The other issue re lighting your radios... most radios and some
instruments have built in lighting controlled by a built in photocell
that adjusts its own lighting level. All you do is hook up your
system voltage (12 or 24) to the correct pin and forget about it. It
has been my experience that the instrument/radio manufacturers system
works quite well.
Phil
RV7 emppanage/wing ... Cessna 177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Laurence" <dr.laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Dimmer Control Units |
Try here.
http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/
Peter Laurence
_____
Henry:
Re: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of hardware
is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and controllers:
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dimmer Control Units |
Henry/Phil,
Wow, 80% finished! Only 80% to go J Just kidding, great progress. I
recently installed the B & C job which touts itself as being a true
voltage regulator rather than a resistor/rheostat which burns your
fingers when you're working on it in the dark because it failed. Today's
equipment is so well backlit and internally controllable, the demand for
these seems to be waning. I use it for my compass backlight, interior
light and the buttons on the Garmin equipment. For such a small job the
little 1.5 volt job works great, generates almost no heat and should
last longer than I. After all the hype and thought over dimming I find I
mostly just set it and forget it.
If you've been around a while you should already know rheostats don't
belong in airplanes. They are best used on fans to chase away flies in
your barn. I've flown more than one plane at night in which an attempt
to use the trusty rheostat caused the lights to go out completely. Like
the old cars, they corrode over time and are problematic.
A hassle free no brainer at less than $40. Read the diagram carefully as
it may trick the intrepid.
Glenn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Samuelian
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dimmer Control Units
Henry:
Re: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of
hardware is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and
controllers:
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
Rheostats are inefficient in that they convert energy into heat while
dimming. Heat is not a good thing behind your panel. A rheostat can get
so hot that you can smell it while flying. This can be disconcerting, to
say the least.
Solid state units usually have heatsinks, indicating that they are also
inefficient, but not as bad as rheostats.
Other considerations are size. Rheostats are relatively small, while
solid state units are usually 2 pieces (large control circuit with heat
sink and small rheostat or pot in the panel).
The latest unit on the market as you mentioned is the MaxDim. It is
completely solid state and self contained. It fits in the same space as
a rheostat. There is no heat, no heatsink, no space penalty, weighs 1
ounce. It is an FAA-PMA part and STCd for certified aircraft. That means
it has gone through rigorous testing and passed. There is no EMI as with
some other solid state units to interfere with your radio systems.
Extremely easy wiring: 3 wires... Ground, power, and dim.
And now the shameless plug... I'm a dealer for this product and sell
them on ebay below ACS' price.
The other issue re lighting your radios... most radios and some
instruments have built in lighting controlled by a built in photocell
that adjusts its own lighting level. All you do is hook up your system
voltage (12 or 24) to the correct pin and forget about it. It has been
my experience that the instrument/radio manufacturers system works quite
well.
Phil
RV7 emppanage/wing ... Cessna 177
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
I sell hundreds of these guys.
EGPAVR: Extremely General Purpose Adjustable Voltage Regulator as a replacement
for the smoking hunk of porcelain Cessna used. See:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/
Free shipping.
"....be sure to make a copy of everything before getting rid of it."
--Samuel Goldwyn
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7885#207885
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BatteryMinder and "boil-over" |
| From: | jon(at)finleyweb.net |
=0AHi all,=0A=0AI have a friend with a C-195 that has had a BatteryMinder o
n his battery (Concorde) for the last several weeks. He found a bunch of r
esidue (white flaky stuff) had come out of the battery overflow tube during
this time and was concerned. I assume this is just due to boil-over but a
m looking for more information to give him. Oh, the battery fluid level fo
llowing this was just a hair above the top of the plates.=0A=0AAny thoughts
??=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0AJon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
Phil:
I curious, where on ebay are you selling them?
Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Samuelian
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dimmer Control Units
Henry:
Re: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of
hardware is
the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and
controllers:
Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats?
My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1
for
radio/gps/transponder.
What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have....
Rheostats are inefficient in that they convert energy into heat while
dimming. Heat is not a good thing behind your panel. A rheostat can get
so hot that you can smell it while flying. This can be disconcerting, to
say the least.
Solid state units usually have heatsinks, indicating that they are
also inefficient, but not as bad as rheostats.
Other considerations are size. Rheostats are relatively small, while
solid state units are usually 2 pieces (large control circuit with heat
sink and small rheostat or pot in the panel).
The latest unit on the market as you mentioned is the MaxDim. It is
completely solid state and self contained. It fits in the same space as
a rheostat. There is no heat, no heatsink, no space penalty, weighs 1
ounce. It is an FAA-PMA part and STCd for certified aircraft. That means
it has gone through rigorous testing and passed. There is no EMI as with
some other solid state units to interfere with your radio systems.
Extremely easy wiring: 3 wires... Ground, power, and dim.
And now the shameless plug... I'm a dealer for this product and sell
them on ebay below ACS' price.
The other issue re lighting your radios... most radios and some
instruments have built in lighting controlled by a built in photocell
that adjusts its own lighting level. All you do is hook up your system
voltage (12 or 24) to the correct pin and forget about it. It has been
my experience that the instrument/radio manufacturers system works quite
well.
Phil
RV7 emppanage/wing ... Cessna 177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/07/08 |
In a message dated 10/8/2008 2:59:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
Why not go with all LED technology and control the lights with a simple
reostat?
What am I missing? Skip
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BatteryMinder and "boil-over" |
>Hi all,
>
>I have a friend with a C-195 that has had a BatteryMinder on his battery
>(Concorde) for the last several weeks.
A Concorde RG battery?
> He found a bunch of residue (white flaky stuff) had come out of the
> battery overflow tube during this time and was concerned. I assume this
> is just due to boil-over but am looking for more information to give
> him. Oh, the battery fluid level following this was just a hair above
> the top of the plates.
>
>Any thoughts??
It's in the genes of true battery maintainers not
to outgas ANY battery, flooded or sealed. If he's
loosing liquid under charge/maintain cycles from
a Battery Minder, then the charger is defective.
It's easy to tell. A few hours after the Battery
Minder's indicator light turns green . . . measure
the voltage on the battery. It should be 13.8 volts
MAX and ideally about 13.2 volts.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 20 Amp Solid State Relay |
>
>
>What is the status of AeroElectric's 20 amp solid state relay?
The prototypes are laying on the assembly bench waiting
for the time to get them put together. Where were you planning
on using them?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | BatteryMinder and "boil-over" |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>No, it is not an RG battery - just a standard lead-acid battery. Looking at
>the Concorde website, I think it is a CB-35A. It is my understanding that
>the BatteryMinder is ok for this type of battery. Is that not true??
>
>Ok, will test it further.
>
>Thanks for the input!
>
>Jon
There's a lot of floobydust being thrown in the
air about suitability-to-task for the various
offerings in "smart chargers". Each manufacturer
has to figure out a way to make their product more
attractive to the consumer than their competition.
But it's beginning to be like laundry soap . . .
there's only so much you can do to make it "new
and improved" before practical benefits become
obscured by marketing hype.
The modus operandi for the vast majority of batteries
in mobile dc power supplies is such that they NEVER
see a plug-in-the-wall charger over the lifetime
of the battery. Consumers run'em 'til they drop and
put in new one. The benchmark for goodness is measured
in months of service . . . under as-installed operating
conditions.
Potions and notions for improved battery service life
have been around for decades. I recall ads in magazines
from when I was a kid touting magic juice or tablets that
one could put into a battery that would "rejuvenate
your ailing battery." The sundry notions for de-sulfating
an ageing battery by electrically hammering the oversized
crystals is another idea that has yet to emerge as a
"good thing to do" everywhere, all the time. One of the
things that consumers seldom considered was the value
of technological competition amongst battery makers and
alternator/regulator makers. If any after market enhancement
has a real return on investment, then the folks who make
millions of them every year have a greater interest
in the idea than the guy selling battery potions out
of the trunk of his car. I.e, if this is such a
good thing to do, why isn't it already being done?
Getting back to the Battery Tender as suited to task
on the flooded battery, ALL lead-acid batteries have
one thing in common . . . self discharge in storage.
I'm told that a strong forcing factor is the amount
of dissolved oxygen in the electrolyte. Sealed batteries
have very little, flooded batteries have a lot but
BOTH batteries will eventually run down just sitting.
The real goal of a battery maintenance charger is to
support the battery at some voltage just above its
open circuit potential at rest. This is a voltage
too low to overcharge the battery . . . but sufficient
to have self discharge currents be totally picked up
by the external energy supply. Once the battery
maintenance device senses that the battery is "topped
off" . . . it needs to shift gears from a CHARGER
to MAINTAINER like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_5.jpg
Now, one can slice and dice the charge modes into
finely tuned recipes for success depending on laboratory
studies of optimum performance for each battery
technology . . . AGM, gel and flooded. But if one
compares the way batteries are charged in-situ in
millions of vehicles . . . NONE are treated anything
like the optimized recipe for success. Yet millions
of consumers perceive satisfactory service-life for
their purchase. I.e, I've been stuffing new batteries
into vehicles for 50 years and have returned very
few devices for warranty replacement. The rest performed
well enough to avoid any notions of "Gee, that last
battery was a piece of crap . . . not going to buy
THAT brand again."
I have observed battery performance in the wild
and in aircraft systems for decades. I have concluded
that customers who perceived poor return on investment
for their battery purchase WOULD NOT have found relief
by plugged the thing in the wall every night and punching
the "right" button for AGM, gel or flooded technology.
If you have a battery that demonstrates loss of water
while "plugged in", it is likely that the maintenance
voltage is too high. This would be true of any lead-acid
battery technology.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | BatteryMinder and "boil-over" |
And the Schumacher mentioned maintainer has gone for $17+ to 20+
yesterday at Walmart since I bought the last one. Still a good buy
for what it does for batteries in storage.
Part number changed and they have a different box and the
instructions & how it works on a label on the top of the unit. New
number is SEM-1562A old # was WM-1562A.
Paul
====================
At 05:10 AM 10/9/2008, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>No, it is not an RG battery - just a standard lead-acid battery. Looking at
>>the Concorde website, I think it is a CB-35A. It is my understanding that
>>the BatteryMinder is ok for this type of battery. Is that not true??
>>
>>Ok, will test it further.
>>
>>Thanks for the input!
>>
>>Jon
>
> There's a lot of floobydust being thrown in the
> air about suitability-to-task for the various
> offerings in "smart chargers". Each manufacturer
> has to figure out a way to make their product more
> attractive to the consumer than their competition.
> But it's beginning to be like laundry soap . . .
> there's only so much you can do to make it "new
> and improved" before practical benefits become
> obscured by marketing hype.
>
> The modus operandi for the vast majority of batteries
> in mobile dc power supplies is such that they NEVER
> see a plug-in-the-wall charger over the lifetime
> of the battery. Consumers run'em 'til they drop and
> put in new one. The benchmark for goodness is measured
> in months of service . . . under as-installed operating
> conditions.
>
> Potions and notions for improved battery service life
> have been around for decades. I recall ads in magazines
> from when I was a kid touting magic juice or tablets that
> one could put into a battery that would "rejuvenate
> your ailing battery." The sundry notions for de-sulfating
> an ageing battery by electrically hammering the oversized
> crystals is another idea that has yet to emerge as a
> "good thing to do" everywhere, all the time. One of the
> things that consumers seldom considered was the value
> of technological competition amongst battery makers and
> alternator/regulator makers. If any after market enhancement
> has a real return on investment, then the folks who make
> millions of them every year have a greater interest
> in the idea than the guy selling battery potions out
> of the trunk of his car. I.e, if this is such a
> good thing to do, why isn't it already being done?
>
> Getting back to the Battery Tender as suited to task
> on the flooded battery, ALL lead-acid batteries have
> one thing in common . . . self discharge in storage.
> I'm told that a strong forcing factor is the amount
> of dissolved oxygen in the electrolyte. Sealed batteries
> have very little, flooded batteries have a lot but
> BOTH batteries will eventually run down just sitting.
>
> The real goal of a battery maintenance charger is to
> support the battery at some voltage just above its
> open circuit potential at rest. This is a voltage
> too low to overcharge the battery . . . but sufficient
> to have self discharge currents be totally picked up
> by the external energy supply. Once the battery
> maintenance device senses that the battery is "topped
> off" . . . it needs to shift gears from a CHARGER
> to MAINTAINER like:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_5.jpg
>
> Now, one can slice and dice the charge modes into
> finely tuned recipes for success depending on laboratory
> studies of optimum performance for each battery
> technology . . . AGM, gel and flooded. But if one
> compares the way batteries are charged in-situ in
> millions of vehicles . . . NONE are treated anything
> like the optimized recipe for success. Yet millions
> of consumers perceive satisfactory service-life for
> their purchase. I.e, I've been stuffing new batteries
> into vehicles for 50 years and have returned very
> few devices for warranty replacement. The rest performed
> well enough to avoid any notions of "Gee, that last
> battery was a piece of crap . . . not going to buy
> THAT brand again."
>
> I have observed battery performance in the wild
> and in aircraft systems for decades. I have concluded
> that customers who perceived poor return on investment
> for their battery purchase WOULD NOT have found relief
> by plugged the thing in the wall every night and punching
> the "right" button for AGM, gel or flooded technology.
>
> If you have a battery that demonstrates loss of water
> while "plugged in", it is likely that the maintenance
> voltage is too high. This would be true of any lead-acid
> battery technology.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C William Sallas <bsallas(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 20 Amp Solid State Relay |
I was planning on using them for Master Battery Contactor, Starter
Contactor, Ground Power Relay, and Avionics Master Relay.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale: BMA EFIS system. |
| From: | "kentb" <kent.d.byerley(at)tek.com> |
Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS Sport and Lite with AutoPilot. It has been in my plane
two years and now I want to upgrade my panel. The Lite is version G3 and the
Sport is G2, it is similar to what is currently being sold as the G4 Lite Plus.
Original price was $12750.00. Have it all for only $6200.00. I am willing
to sell the parts as follows AP $2500.00; Efis Sport $2500.00; Efis Lite $2000.00.
Contact Kent Byerley at Byerley@web-ster.com or Phone 503-627-4045 (work)
503-706-2618 (cell).
--------
Kent Byerley
RV9A - IO320 - CS - Tipup
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8052#208052
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 20 Amp Solid State Relay |
>
>
>I was planning on using them for Master Battery Contactor, Starter
>Contactor, Ground Power Relay, and Avionics Master Relay.
Hmmmm . . . I'm aware of no solid state contactor suited
for use as a battery master (high-current, bi-directional
capability). There are devices that could serve in the rest
of the applications you mentioned . . . but I'll suggest
your return on investment would be poor. All except the
Starter and Ground Power contactors good for hundreds
of amps are hefty devices with a commensurate price tag.
Our solid state relay will be a 20A rated device and could
be used for an AV Master relay but it's better suited to
pitot heater, landing lights, and perhaps a robust e-bus
alternate feed path.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Samuelian <psamuelian(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimmer Control Units |
Phil:
I curious, where on ebay are you selling them?
Henry
You can find the MaxDim product on ebay by doing an ebay search.
Phil
RV7 empannage/wing ... Cessna 177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | BatteryMinder and "boil-over" |
>
>And the Schumacher mentioned maintainer has gone for $17+ to 20+ yesterday
>at Walmart since I bought the last one. Still a good buy for what it does
>for batteries in storage.
>Part number changed and they have a different box and the instructions &
>how it works on a label on the top of the unit. New number is SEM-1562A
>old # was WM-1562A.
Yeah, I saw those a couple of days ago at WallyWorld.
I've got one of the older versions and did extensive
testing that showed this little guy was about 2x
faster than the Battery-Minder/Battery-Tender wall-wart
crowd (0.8A versus 1.5A recharge) and equally as
"smart" with at less than 2/3 the price.
My favorite of the small guys.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Dimmer Control Units |
Just do a search for Maxdim.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Samuelian
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dimmer Control Units
Phil:
I curious, where on ebay are you selling them?
Henry
You can find the MaxDim product on ebay by doing an ebay search.
Phil
RV7 empannage/wing ... Cessna 177
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Bob I was able to test with a handheld not connected to anything.
Test one: Original Raw Driver, led array and about 3 ft of power wires. Handheld
gets trashed at over 20ft. Lots of audible noise and the squelch is opened
even at max.
Test two: Bob's Modified Driver, same everything else. Handheld can be as close
as 1 ft before picking up noise and it gets stronger the closer the antenna
is to the setup.
Test three: Bob's driver, same everything else with the power wires to the driver
passed twice thru a ferrite core. Handheld can be as close as the antenna
touching the power wires with no noise.
Seems we are very much on the right track. With the ferrite core, it seems the
problems are almost fully eliminated.
Bob, how can I get another one of these for the other side of my nav lights?
I do not have a panel mount to test. This would be the ultimate test as the driver
and the radio would be sharing a common power supply.
Bob, your thoughts????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8102#208102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Samuelian <psamuelian(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel dimmers? |
Skip:
LEDs certainly reduce the amount of current necessary compared to
incandescent, and a rheostat would perform better in that situation.
However, the rheostat is still changing aircraft power into heat. If
you're OK with that, then a rheostat is still the least expensive
solution.
There will still be a few calculations that will be necessary so you
obtain the correct rheostat and fixed resistance for your particular
installation.
What we are aiming for is continuous useful lumen output throughout
the entire rotational range of the rheostat without blowing out all
the LEDs.
You will have to know in advance how many LEDs you will be lighting
and the total current draw.
You can calculate the minimum resistance (highest brightness) from
those figures. (Resistance = Aircraft Voltage / Total LED Current).
Call this value "Rfixed."
Then you need to find out the maximum resistance that gives the
lowest useful lumen output from the LEDs (not off). Call this value
"Rmax."
Rheostat resistance = Rmax - Rfixed.
Now we figure wattage:
Rheostat wattage = (Total Current squared x Rheostat resistance) x 2
Rfixed wattage = (Total Current squared x Rfixed resistance) x 2
The "...x 2" is a fudge factor so the resistor is not running at its
maximum power capacity.
Place the fixed resistor in series with the rheostat.
Note that this solution does not allow for a bunch more (or less)
LEDs as the calculations and resistance would then change
substantially. This can happen if you decide to add or delete
lighting for some future modification.
Solid state dimmers all use voltage regulation to control lumen
output. They regulate the voltage in different ways, but all we're
concerned with is if the dimmer/regulator can control the amount of
current we need at our design voltage and if its operation is not
going to emit RF that will interfere with other equipment. Of course,
it would also be nice if it were easy to install, like 1 mounting
bushing and 3 wires.
Phil
Why not go with all LED technology and control the lights with
a simple
reostat?
What am I missing? Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Bob,
I have a volunteer that has agreed to test this modified driver in his RV. This
is a person that had tried the original raw driver and who had sever problems
with noise.
This will be a good test because he knows how they performed before and he will
know after. Currently he replaced the drivers with resistors.
His application also has a Archer wingtip Nav antenna and he plans on putting the
modified driver on that side so we can see how it affects Nav radio performance
as well.
It will take a few days but we will get some real airplane testing done!
It looks very promising when just comparing it to the way they affected the handheld
so I expect the aircraft will have similar results.
Bob are you planning to market these or just give us the sources and info needed
to build our own?
Thanks for your help Bob!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8158#208158
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
>
>Bob I was able to test with a handheld not connected to anything.
>
>Test one: Original Raw Driver, led array and about 3 ft of power
>wires. Handheld gets trashed at over 20ft. Lots of audible noise and the
>squelch is opened even at max.
>
>Test two: Bob's Modified Driver, same everything else. Handheld can be as
>close as 1 ft before picking up noise and it gets stronger the closer the
>antenna is to the setup.
>
>Test three: Bob's driver, same everything else with the power wires to
>the driver passed twice thru a ferrite core. Handheld can be as close as
>the antenna touching the power wires with no noise.
Very good data. It looks like we could
consider a bit more attention to the VHF spectrum
outside the boundaries of the existing filter.
But I suspect that the present configuration
would be clean enough for service without
the ferrites.
>Seems we are very much on the right track. With the ferrite core, it
>seems the problems are almost fully eliminated.
>
>Bob, how can I get another one of these for the other side of my nav lights?
I have more boards and parts but no power
supplies (you supplied the one we used). Do
you want me to assemble one or send you the
parts? You'll note some chop-n-hack on the
board where I corrected a layout error.
Perhaps I just need to correct the layout
and then publish the ECB art along with
a bill of materials. You guys can probably
run with it. All the parts come from Digikey.
>I do not have a panel mount to test. This would be the ultimate test as
>the driver and the radio would be sharing a common power supply.
Given the results of your experiment with the
hand-held as an e-field sniffer, I think the
present configuration would play well in the
airplane. I'm still planning on getting into
the RFI lab out at NAIR. I attended a meeting
out there last night and bugged 'em about it
again. You think government and industry are
wading around hip-deep in bureaucratic mud,
take a peek into a university some time!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
> I have more boards and parts but no power
> supplies (you supplied the one we used). Do
> you want me to assemble one or send you the
> parts? You'll note some chop-n-hack on the
> board where I corrected a layout error.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Bob since you have the parts and the boards and know how you modified the board
to make it work, could you assemble one more for me? I could send you another
driver to install. I am more than willing to pay you for the work and shipping,
just let me know what that would be.
As far as future ones, I am sure there are some that would be OK will assembling
their own and I am sure that there are some that would rather you just sell
them a completed one. To minimize the stress on your end, if you could just publish
the board art, bom and sources, I am sure that would be OK with most people.
Let us know!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8161#208161
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
>
>
>Bob since you have the parts and the boards and know how you modified the
>board to make it work, could you assemble one more for me? I could send
>you another driver to install. I am more than willing to pay you for the
>work and shipping, just let me know what that would be.
>
>As far as future ones, I am sure there are some that would be OK will
>assembling their own and I am sure that there are some that would rather
>you just sell them a completed one. To minimize the stress on your end,
>if you could just publish the board art, bom and sources, I am sure that
>would be OK with most people.
>
>Let us know!
Okay, I did the sharp pencil treatment on a
filtered LED driver as follows:
AEC9051-1 1-Amp, LED Driver Assembly similar
to . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/BuckPuck_1.jpg
except connector will be right angle version and
exit the board parallel to the mounting surface
as opposed to standing up.
Board will be fitted with the LuxDrive 03021-D-N-1000
1A LED driver module and filter components shown in
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/BuckPuck_4.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/BP_Filter_V1p1.pdf
A complete kit consisting of board assembly, mating
d-sub connector, connector hood and machined d-sub
pins as shown in . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/BuckPuck_3.jpg
(except for connector orientation).
I'll need orders for 20 assemblies to break even
for tooling up and bringing in unique inventory (ECBs and
Buck-Pucks).
Price for each assembly as described is $46.00 plus postage.
This device has been added to the order form at:
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
Forgive me for what's probably a dumb question, but, how many of your
gizmotronic modified LED drivers will I need to run two wingtip nav lights
on an RV? I ask because I don't understand if the gizmotron is in the fuse
with output to the two wingtips; or if a gizmotron sits in each wingtip.
Soon as I know you'll get my order and probably another one from another
builder here too.
Ralph Finch
Davis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED
driver
Price for each assembly as described is $46.00 plus postage.
This device has been added to the order form at:
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "Brantel" <bchesteen(at)hughes.net> |
Most people will need two, one for each wingtip. You could use one but with reduced
drive current to each string of LED's.
This driver can source 1000mA of current.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8220#208220
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
| From: | "PSYCHOSE" <psychose(at)magma.ca> |
Hello Bob,
While I would rather purchase your assembled units, I already have purchased the
BuckPuck and would appreciate the parts list so that I could roll my own, unless
you would be willing to send me the assembled unit minus the Buckpuck which
I would solder in myself.
regards,
Normand RV8 wings.
--------
Normand Gingras RV8 wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8249#208249
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>While I would rather purchase your assembled units, I already have
>purchased the BuckPuck and would appreciate the parts list so that I could
>roll my own, unless you would be willing to send me the assembled unit
>minus the Buckpuck which I would solder in myself.
I've had a number of requests from folks who already have
Buck-Pucks on hand to supply filter kits for existing
LED supplies. I've posted a striped down filter kit
on the catalog page.
The Buck-Puck is cemented to the board with a little
dab of E6000 and then soldered.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>While I would rather purchase your assembled units, I already have
>purchased the BuckPuck and would appreciate the parts list so that I could
>roll my own, unless you would be willing to send me the assembled unit
>minus the Buckpuck which I would solder in myself.
I've had a number of requests from folks who already have
Buck-Pucks on hand to supply filter kits for existing
LED supplies. I've posted a striped down filter kit
on the catalog page.
The Buck-Puck is cemented to the board with a little
dab of E6000 and then soldered.
P.S. Orders for 11 completely assembled kits are already
in hand. If anyone orders the -99 filter board sans Buck-Puck,
that counts toward the necessary total of 20 units to
trigger the investment in inventory.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AEC9051 Series LED Driver Support |
I have received orders for the necessary 20 filter boards
and/or fully populated assemblies for the BuckPuck constant
current driver modules. I'll be ordering 100 boards and
detail parts for about 50 total assemblies except for the
BuckPuck module. The board will take about 10 days to fabricate
so I'll not order BuckPucks until the boards are here. We'll
probably assemble a first batch of 50 boards (will take about
a day).
Bottom line that the AEC9051-1 and AEC9051-99 will become
inventoried items that we should be able to ship from
stock in about 2 weeks.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation |
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in your
panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please enlighten me
about:
- White wire, labelled as "Alarm", what is it for?
- Brown wire (labelled as "Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
- have you used any of the "Data In" wires (Yellow or Green)?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Carlos,
I have a 296 installed in my airplane.=C2- I looked through the Garmin man
ual and didn't find a clue to the "voice" wires. I assumed that, if you have
an external speaker for your comm radio, it would hook into that.=C2- I d
on't, so I just tied those two wires off.=C2- I didn't find a use for the
"alarm" or "data in" wires either.=C2-
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 2:03 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN
GPS296 in your panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please
enlighten me about:
=C2-
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
White wire, labelled
as =9CAlarm=9D, what is it for?
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
Brown wire
(labelled as =9CVoice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as Voice(-) ), are the
se to
be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
have you used any
of the =9CData In=9D wires (Yellow or Green)?
=C2-
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation |
Hi Carlos,
Typically everyone ignores those wires, except for the data in - which is
used for traffic input on the 396/496 GPSes.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:03 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in your
panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please enlighten me
about:
- White wire, labelled as Alarm, what is it for?
- Brown wire (labelled as Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
- have you used any of the Data In wires (Yellow or Green)?
Carlos
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation |
Try the Dynon forum:
http://www.dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in your
> panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please enlighten me
> about:
>
>
> - White wire, labelled as "Alarm", what is it for?
>
> - Brown wire (labelled as "Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
> Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
>
> - have you used any of the "Data In" wires (Yellow or Green)?
>
>
> Carlos
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill" <docyukon(at)ptcnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation |
When using a Garmin 296 Red + Black - Voice Not used Data 1 Not
used in aircraft mode Data 2 Digital output for autopilot Alarm not
used. Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Trigo
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com ; avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in
your panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please
enlighten me about:
- White wire, labelled as "Alarm", what is it for?
- Brown wire (labelled as "Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
- have you used any of the "Data In" wires (Yellow or Green)?
Carlos
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/11/2008 3:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Midgley" <tmidge(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | review electric drawing for Jabiru 3300 powered Sonex |
Hi,
I have drawn up a basic electrical drawing for my Sonex. I just want a
simple system that will be ok for a VFR only aircraft. I am very much a
newbie when it comes to aircraft electrical systems and all I really know is
what I have read in The AeroElectric Connection. I would like some of you
more knowledgeable folk to have a look at my drawing and make comment on it.
Is the wire sizing adequate? Does it require any inline fuses? What about
where the alternator circuit is connected? My thinking here was it would be
better to be able to disconnect alternator power to the cockpit by turning
off the master switch, than disconnecting alternator power to the battery.
Please feel free to say what you think, the more opinions the better.
Cheers,
Tim.
Checked by AVG.
3:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | B and C Batteries |
All,
Has anyone got any information regarding B and C batteries and how they sta
ck up against the Odyssey batteries?- I'm building a Velocity with a Delt
ahawk diesel engine and will probably need two at about 25 AH a piece, so c
osts could add up.- Any other suggested batteries out there to start a bi
g Diesel?
-
Dan=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B and C Batteries |
We're having pretty good luck with Concorde RG-25XC batteries.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
D Fritz wrote:
> All,
> Has anyone got any information regarding B and C batteries and how
> they stack up against the Odyssey batteries? I'm building a Velocity
> with a Deltahawk diesel engine and will probably need two at about 25
> AH a piece, so costs could add up. Any other suggested batteries out
> there to start a big Diesel?
>
> Dan
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unhappy Instrumentation on Jabiru 3300 |
| From: | "selwyn" <selwyn(at)ellisworks.com.au> |
These seem to work and have been credited with solving some radio noise problems
on Jabirus. I have no idea if they will have any effect on your EIS problems.
http://www.powermate.com.au/
--------
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8482#208482
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unhappy Instrumentation on Jabiru 3300 |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Spikes as you describe indicate a serious deficiency of inductors
and capacitors in a switching circuit. I have no idea whats in the Jab
regulator, but for sure, it's non-linear and creating switching transients.
On the other hand, it seems likely that a lot of engine sensor monitors
are designed by people who do not seem aware of Shannon's Sampling
Theorem. Dedicated EGT / CHT input lines should be heavily prefiltered
before digitizing since there is no real signal above 0.5 Hz or so. In a
properly designed Engine Monitor, the front end should completely filter out these
transients, even if they do exist. You could post process the
data, but with the presence of transients like you see, the output would
be garbage from aliasing. Really guys, this is first year EE stuff, and you
should complain to GRT about why their design is sensitive to this noise
when it cheaply could be insensitive.
Ira
(I'm not an EE, but I played one for 4 years of Grad School)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8518#208518
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip |
I am installing a single G207 hand grip on my grocery getter and need
some help with the two auxiliary switches at the top or front of the
grip. I purchased the unit complete with two push button switches at the
top.
If you are familiar with the G207 there are 4 flush mounted buttons on
top with one PTT on the front of the switch. There is an option for
either two toggle or two push button switches just in front of the 4
flush mounted buttons.
The PTT and four flush buttons are working as designed with no issues. I
use them for aileron trim and elevator trim. I want to use the 2
optional buttons for the rudder trim.
Ray Allen does not offer any ideas or schematics indicating there are
just too may options for wiring them. I want to see if anyone has used
them for a trim motor (in my case the rudder trim) and how they finally
wired them up. The switches have 3 connection points each and there is
continuity between two of them at all times. The 3rd is closed when the
button is pushed.
I have tried the obvious, ground to open, hot and switch to closed and
so on - and the reverse. Nothing so far but blown fuses.
I am using the T2-7A trim motor for the rudder which is a 5 wire unit.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip |
Did you look at Figure 2 on Page 4 of this document:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf
Thanks!
Bill Denton
bdenton(at)bdenton.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg(at)pjm.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip
I am installing a single G207 hand grip on my grocery getter and need
some help with the two auxiliary switches at the top or front of the
grip. I purchased the unit complete with two push button switches at the
top.
If you are familiar with the G207 there are 4 flush mounted buttons on
top with one PTT on the front of the switch. There is an option for
either two toggle or two push button switches just in front of the 4
flush mounted buttons.
The PTT and four flush buttons are working as designed with no issues. I
use them for aileron trim and elevator trim. I want to use the 2
optional buttons for the rudder trim.
Ray Allen does not offer any ideas or schematics indicating there are
just too may options for wiring them. I want to see if anyone has used
them for a trim motor (in my case the rudder trim) and how they finally
wired them up. The switches have 3 connection points each and there is
continuity between two of them at all times. The 3rd is closed when the
button is pushed.
I have tried the obvious, ground to open, hot and switch to closed and
so on - and the reverse. Nothing so far but blown fuses.
I am using the T2-7A trim motor for the rudder which is a 5 wire unit.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "icubob(at)newnorth.net" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | jab 3300 ground straps |
bob,
my jab is grounded with 4ga from the battery to the 1/2'' thick
aluminum plate which attaches the engine to the engine mount. a common
place i understand. a recent service bulletin recommends grounding at
a 3/16''bolt which attaches the starter to the plate. supposed to
increase the voltage by .4 to the starter. i wat to run my groung
cable to the starter and with a ''groung strap'' also ground from the
starter bolt to the alum. plate. i would solder the strap to the cable
in the connector that attaches the cable to the starter bolt. my
question is this....should i use ''4ga'' strap [from napa and as big
as a house] or will 10 ga strap be sufficient considering that i am
grounding in the 2 locations, 8'' from each other?
- thanks for an answer to a wordy question,
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Problem solved- was:Unhappy Instrumentation on Jabiru |
3300
In a message dated 10/13/2008 1:14:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
selwyn(at)ellisworks.com.au writes:
These seem to work and have been credited with solving some radio noise
problems on Jabirus. I have no idea if they will have any effect on your EIS
problems.
>>>
Appreciate the information- according to the link provided the Powermate is
limited to 8 amps and is unfortunately not a candidate for the Jabiru
2200/3300 engine with the standard alternator and rectifier/regulator that provides
20 amps continuous.
I'd like to reiterate that the problem originally posted has been
successfully resolved by antagonist/victim experimentation. Antagonist was the
right
distributor and the victim was the VDO fuel pressure sensor provided by GRT
and originally installed near the distributor and harness. Relocating the
sensor approximately 3 inches or more from the distributor has completely
eliminated all of the spikes into the EIS and all related phantom EIS and EFIS
engine page alarms. Subsequent re-locations on two other aircraft have confirmed
the original results.
Time to focus on the next dragon...
Mark Phillips
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | B and C Batteries |
10/13/2008
Hello Fritz, The last battery that I bought from B&C was an Odyssey PC680
with a B&C label stuck on it.
I would expect that some of their other batteries are also Odyssey models.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: D Fritz <dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B and C Batteries
All,
Has anyone got any information regarding B and C batteries and how they sta
ck up against the Odyssey batteries?- I'm building a Velocity with a Delt
ahawk diesel engine and will probably need two at about 25 AH a piece, so c
osts could add up.- Any other suggested batteries out there to start a bi
g Diesel?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | SD-8 Failure in Z-13 |
Bob. I have used your Z-13 "All Electric Airplane on a Budget" schematic as
the basis of the electrical system on my Long-Ez. I recently returned from
a flight to find the Aux Alt Off/On switch to be ON, whilst the DC Power
switch was on, the battery contactor closed and the main alternator
supplying the power. On checking the Aux Alt system subsequently I have
that it does not work. To help me with the fault finding, are there any
parts that could have shorted out/been fried? Is there a procedure for
checking out the 'dynamo' and its circuit? Any help would be great. Many
thanks Bob.
First, it's not an automatic no-no to have the small
alternator turned on at the same time the main alternator
is on . . .
When two alternators run in parallel, the alternator
with the LOWER regulator voltage set-point will
relax and the one with the HIGHER set-point will
attempt to pick up all system loads. If the 8A
machine had the higher set-point, then it would have
been running all-out for the duration of your flight.
The main alternator would have picked up the difference
between the SD-8 output and system loads as the bus
voltage sagged.
This is not an automatic recipe for alternator failure
but if the rectifier/regulator were inadequately
heat-sinked, it could have caused internal damage
at some point in the flight.
That's about the only part of the SD-8 system that's
vulnerable. Check with a voltmeter that you have AC
voltage coming in while the engine is running and that
the disconnect relay is closing.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Baldwin" <jamesbaldwin(at)dc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Z diagram notations |
I was looking at the old Z-1 Aeroelectric drawing and saw the notation "MOV"
inside an oval box. Anybody know what that means and where the "notes" are
for these drawings? Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Z diagram notations |
A MOV is a Metal Oxide Varistor and is used to protect against overvoltages;
I don't have the Z1 diagram so I cannot tell what its doing in the circuit-
if you want to send the diagram to me (email add below) I can have a look at
it.
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Baldwin
Sent: 14 October 2008 04:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z diagram notations
I was looking at the old Z-1 Aeroelectric drawing and saw the notation "MOV"
inside an oval box. Anybody know what that means and where the "notes" are
for these drawings? Thank you.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Z diagram notations |
James,
This is a metal oxide varistor, used as a transient suppressor across an
inductor. It has been determined that a diode works better for this
task,
so you will see diodes across the contactor coils in the later "Z"
drawings.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Baldwin
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:30 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z diagram notations
I was looking at the old Z-1 Aeroelectric drawing and saw the notation
"MOV"
inside an oval box. Anybody know what that means and where the "notes"
are
for these drawings? Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z diagram notations |
James Baldwin wrote:
>
> I was looking at the old Z-1 Aeroelectric drawing and saw the notation
> MOV inside an oval box. Anybody know what that means and where the
> notes are for these drawings? Thank you.
>
Metal Oxide Varistor? Generally used for surge protection.
Dale R.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
Hey there, new to the list..
Where do you source power contactors for 12V applications?
Thanks
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
I'm afraid I don't know how to source a contactor. I don't even know what that
means.? However, you can buy them at bandcspecialties.com.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Hyde <jay(at)horriblehyde.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:39 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Hey there, new to the list..
?
Where do you source power contactors for 12V applications?
?
Thanks
?
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
?
?
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________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
Dale,
For the continuous duty Main power and intermittent duty Starter
contactors,
I purchased mine from Aircraft Spruce.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Hyde
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Hey there, new to the list..
Where do you source power contactors for 12V applications?
Thanks
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | GARMIN GPS 296 panel installation |
Thanks to everybody who answered.
Stein or anyone else
Do you know if the "Alarm" white wire is designed to be connected to an
annunciator panel light?
If yes, does it carry power or ground to the light?
Carlos
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir,
Inc.
Sent: domingo, 12 de Outubro de 2008 21:37
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
Hi Carlos,
Typically everyone ignores those wires, except for the data in - which is
used for traffic input on the 396/496 GPSes.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in your
panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please enlighten me
about:
- White wire, labelled as "Alarm", what is it for?
- Brown wire (labelled as "Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
- have you used any of the "Data In" wires (Yellow or Green)?
Carlos
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.gigavac.com/search/index.htm
type in: GX-11 and review the specs.
Gigavac contactors - a bit more expensive but high quality. They take phone orders,
call them and tell them you want the GX-11 model for a 12 volt system.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8750#208750
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
Jay!
Don't know why I called you Dale. My apologies!
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER
&
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Dale,
For the continuous duty Main power and intermittent duty Starter
contactors,
I purchased mine from Aircraft Spruce.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Hyde
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Hey there, new to the list..
Where do you source power contactors for 12V applications?
Thanks
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GARMIN GPS 296 panel installation |
If memory serves, the Alarm wire is the audible alarms - not a light. I
think that's the one I wired from my 396 into an unswitched Aux on my audio
panel. The voice wires (for the 396 at least) carry the XM radio and turn
direction voice - but in mono. I used the stereo output jack and wired into
the entertainment input on the audio panel.
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel installation
Thanks to everybody who answered.
Stein or anyone else
Do you know if the "Alarm" white wire is designed to be connected to an
annunciator panel light?
If yes, does it carry power or ground to the light?
Carlos
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir,
Inc.
Sent: domingo, 12 de Outubro de 2008 21:37
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
Hi Carlos,
Typically everyone ignores those wires, except for the data in - which is
used for traffic input on the 396/496 GPSes.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GPS 296 panel instalation
For those of you who have ever installed a portable GARMIN GPS296 in your
panel, using the optional Power/Data Cable, will you please enlighten me
about:
- White wire, labelled as "Alarm", what is it for?
- Brown wire (labelled as "Voice(+) ) and Orange (labelled as
Voice(-) ), are these to be connected to the aircraft Audio system?
- have you used any of the "Data In" wires (Yellow or Green)?
Carlos
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
No problem! Thanks for all the answers everyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER &
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: 14 October 2008 07:53 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Jay!
Don't know why I called you Dale. My apologies!
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER &
JEAN CURTIS
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Dale,
For the continuous duty Main power and intermittent duty Starter contactors,
I purchased mine from Aircraft Spruce.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Hyde
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Hey there, new to the list..
Where do you source power contactors for 12V applications?
Thanks
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details for Jay Hyde
Mobile: +27 (0) 83 300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z diagram notations |
>I was looking at the old Z-1 Aeroelectric drawing and saw the notation MOV
>inside an oval box. Anybody know what that means and where the notes are
>for these drawings? Thank you.
Your book is waaaayyyy out of date. Suggest you download the
latest Z-figures at:
http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
The MOV's were an early experiment that was supposed
to effectively tame the magnetic field collapse transient
in relay and contactor coils. It proved not be as efficient
and cost effective as the ordinary diode which you will
find featured in later drawings. In the current drawing
set, Z-1 is replaced by Z-11.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | jab 3300 ground straps |
hi all, i apologize for the garbled mess i sent yesterday and promise
never to mess with copy and paste again!
bob, let me ask the question again.................. my jab 3300 is
grounded with 4ga cable from the battrey to the 1/2'' thick aluminum
plate which attraches the engine to the engine mount. this is a common
method of grounding. a recent service bulletin recommends grounding at a
3/16'' bolt which attaches the starter to this plate. supposed to
increase the voltage to the starter by .4 volts. i want to run my ground
cable to the starter bolt AND with a ground strap also ground from the
starter bolt to the aluminum plate. i would solder the strap to the
cable in the connector that attaches the cable to the starter bolt.
my question is this...should i use 4 ga strap[ from napa and big as a
house] or will 10 ga strap be sufficient considering that i am grounding
in 2 locations, 8'' from each other?
thanks for your time, bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: jab 3300 ground straps |
>
>
>bob,
>my jab is grounded with 4ga from the battery to the 1/2'' thick
>aluminum plate which attaches the engine to the engine mount. a common
>place i understand. a recent service bulletin recommends grounding at
>a 3/16''bolt which attaches the starter to the plate. supposed to
>increase the voltage by .4 to the starter. i wat to run my groung
>cable to the starter and with a ''groung strap'' also ground from the
>starter bolt to the alum. plate. i would solder the strap to the cable
>in the connector that attaches the cable to the starter bolt. my
>question is this....should i use ''4ga'' strap [from napa and as big
>as a house] or will 10 ga strap be sufficient considering that i am
>grounding in the 2 locations, 8'' from each other?
>
>thanks for an answer to a wordy question,
I'm not real sure I have a clear image of your
proposed architecture but let me offer this. I'm
skeptical of a 0.4 volt difference across engine
structure at starter currents but let's assume
there is value in getting the battery(-) very
close to the starter mounting bolts . . . so
fine, run battery(-) to the suggested location.
All other currents that run through "ground"
connections are small by comparison. They're the
loads supported by your alternator which if I
recall correctly is good for about 20 Amps.
So a single, super-flex wire from your engine
crankcase to a single point ground on the firewall
would be sufficient. Suggest a piece of the smallest
welding cable you can get which I think is 6AWG.
You don't need the copper but the flexibility and
robustness is good. Use 4AWG welding cable for the
other "fat" wires in the starter circuit.
Ground everything else to the single point ground
on the firewall.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: review electric drawing for Jabiru 3300 powered |
Sonex
>Hi,
>
>I have drawn up a basic electrical drawing for my Sonex. I just want a
>simple system that will be ok for a VFR only aircraft. I am very much a
>newbie when it comes to aircraft electrical systems and all I really know
>is what I have read in The AeroElectric Connection. I would like some of
>you more knowledgeable folk to have a look at my drawing and make comment
>on it. Is the wire sizing adequate? Does it require any inline fuses? What
>about where the alternator circuit is connected? My thinking here was it
>would be better to be able to disconnect alternator power to the cockpit
>by turning off the master switch, than disconnecting alternator power to
>the battery.
>
>Please feel free to say what you think, the more opinions the better.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Tim.
What you've drawn will function as advertised but
I'm curious as to why you did not adopt a version
of Z-16 . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z16M.pdf
. . . your proposed system has no control over the
alternator, no ov protection. I presume that your
EIS has some form of low voltage warning but if not,
that should be a component of your design goals as
well. The choice of ignition/starter controls doesn't
impact functionality. Z-16 with the e-bus removed
seems more suited to service in the small airplane.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Palvary" <paula.alvary(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Circuit breaker for master relay? |
The button on the circuit breaker (CB) for my master relay (which I think is
the same as a "battery relay" in the Z diagrams) broke off and I want to
replace it. The CB still works. The I want to order one before I
dis-assemble my panel, but can't read any numbers on the unit. The numbers
are either not accessible or worn off. So....what size circuit breaker might
be associated to the typical master relay...2 Amps?
--Jose
(Boston)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Page" <jpx(at)Qenesis.com> |
The GX11 looks like a high quality contactor. I like the fact that it
is hermetically sealed. I will probably use one as my main battery
contactor.
What about a good quality relay for the cross-connect function ? It
would need to handle 10A max (from an SD-8) ? Any recommendations ?
Thanks,
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit breaker for master relay? |
>
>The button on the circuit breaker (CB) for my master relay (which I think is
>the same as a "battery relay" in the Z diagrams) broke off and I want to
>replace it. The CB still works. The I want to order one before I
>dis-assemble my panel, but can't read any numbers on the unit. The numbers
>are either not accessible or worn off. So....what size circuit breaker might
>be associated to the typical master relay...2 Amps?
I'm not aware of a need for a circuit breaker in the
master or battery relay control circuit. If you have
a circuit breaker associated with this function, perhaps
it is not necessary. In any case, there are virtually dozens
of circuit breakers suited for use in aircraft. Does
your breaker look anything like these?
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/circuitbreakers.jpg
This form factor is commonly used throughout the aircraft
industry and manufactured by at least a half-dozen manufacturers.
B&C and Aircraft Spruce both sell them. But I'm skeptical
that your battery relay circuitry benefits from the use
of a circuit breaker.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>The GX11 looks like a high quality contactor. I like the fact that it
>is hermetically sealed. I will probably use one as my main battery
>contactor.
>
>What about a good quality relay for the cross-connect function ? It
>would need to handle 10A max (from an SD-8) ? Any recommendations ?
Sure. "Good quality" and "aircraft quality" are commonly
used to describe parts suited for in aircraft . . . but
are un-defined. A plastic, automotive relay rated at 20+
amps is suited for use as the alternator disconnect on an
SD-8 installation. Typical relays include:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/Plastic_Relay_2.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704-1l.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/3uel5c
http://tinyurl.com/4qpwo6
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=255-1830-ND
All of these devices are assembled on automatic
machines by the millions and designed to survive
under the hood of cars . . . quite suited to our
purposes under the cowls of airplanes.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
Hi there Bob and anyone else who might know,
I have been looking for the 'the recommended sealer to preclude entry of
moisture and to keep the edges from fraying' as per your article on firewall
penetrations, but I cannot see any listing at AircraftSpruce for the stuff;
what is it and where can I get it?
Ditto for the firestop putty.
Thanks
Jay
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
Jay,
My experience is that many builders use a RED HIGH TEMPERATURE SILICONE
RTV.
This is good to about 600 deg F, intermittently.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Hyde
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
Hi there Bob and anyone else who might know,
I have been looking for the 'the recommended sealer to preclude entry of
moisture and to keep the edges from fraying' as per your article on
firewall
penetrations, but I cannot see any listing at AircraftSpruce for the
stuff;
what is it and where can I get it?
Ditto for the firestop putty.
Thanks
Jay
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by Pinpoint Securemail,
and is believed to be clean.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
An excellent choice for any location that may be exposed to direct flame is
3M Fire Barrier sealant, rated to 2000 deg. F. It handles and cures like
silicon sealant and is very tough. It is particularly good for filling
relatively large openings on the firewall, such as flange openings around
the edges, sealing around thru-FW wire bundle openings, etc. Available at
ACS, p/n 05-00949.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
It's also at your local Home Depot.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
An excellent choice for any location that may be exposed to direct flame is
3M Fire Barrier sealant, rated to 2000 deg. F. It handles and cures like
silicon sealant and is very tough. It is particularly good for filling
relatively large openings on the firewall, such as flange openings around
the edges, sealing around thru-FW wire bundle openings, etc. Available at
ACS, p/n 05-00949.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
The 3M 2500 firebarrier caulk is available at Home Depot for about half
the price that ACS sells it for. It's sometimes found in the paint
department and sometimes very well hidden in the electrical dept. Last
time I bought some there it was about $13.00. Most Home Depots have it.
Bill
Glasair
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
An excellent choice for any location that may be exposed to direct
flame is 3M Fire Barrier sealant, rated to 2000 deg. F. It handles and
cures like silicon sealant and is very tough. It is particularly good
for filling relatively large openings on the firewall, such as flange
openings around the edges, sealing around thru-FW wire bundle openings,
etc. Available at ACS, p/n 05-00949.
Ron
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/16/2008 7:38 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
Thanks for the responses- Home Depot is a trifle difficult to access in
South Africa though. :-)
Have ordered it from ACS in a larger shipment of stuff I need.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Hibbing
Sent: 16 October 2008 05:49 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
The 3M 2500 firebarrier caulk is available at Home Depot for about half the
price that ACS sells it for. It's sometimes found in the paint department
and sometimes very well hidden in the electrical dept. Last time I bought
some there it was about $13.00. Most Home Depots have it.
Bill
Glasair
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon <mailto:rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
An excellent choice for any location that may be exposed to direct flame is
3M Fire Barrier sealant, rated to 2000 deg. F. It handles and cures like
silicon sealant and is very tough. It is particularly good for filling
relatively large openings on the firewall, such as flange openings around
the edges, sealing around thru-FW wire bundle openings, etc. Available at
ACS, p/n 05-00949.
Ron
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- - Release Date: 10/16/2008 7:38 AM
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
Go to McMaster.com and search in "Find Products" for item # 93465K42 for a
10.3 oz. caulking gun cartridge of the stuff. Currently eleven bucks &
change...
Mark
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
Hi Jay-
Up over here, on the northwest side of the planet ;-), these products can
be had at many hardware outlets aside from home depot. They are
intumescent caulks, and come in a cartridge suitable for use in a standard
home use caulking gun. They are typically displayed in the same area as
all the other window and siding caulks, being marketed as 'fire block',
'fire stop', or some such. When packaged as home repair materials they are
a fraction of the cost of when the same material is packaged for aviation
use.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
>
> Thanks for the responses- Home Depot is a trifle difficult to access in
> South Africa though. :-)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire-Putty/ Sealant |
I'd caution that most fire rated caulks from the hardware store are
essentially just silicone that have a fire rating to satisfy a
particular building code. The one I tested was no better than red rtv
gasket compound. While either will satisfy our local inspectors, the
silicone products are not near as good as the itumescent 3M product.
Less than 600*F vs. 2000*F. Aluminum melts around 1100*F as I recall.
Occasionally you do get what you pay for.
Ken
glen matejcek wrote:
>
> Hi Jay-
>
> Up over here, on the northwest side of the planet ;-), these products can
> be had at many hardware outlets aside from home depot. They are
> intumescent caulks, and come in a cartridge suitable for use in a standard
> home use caulking gun. They are typically displayed in the same area as
> all the other window and siding caulks, being marketed as 'fire block',
> 'fire stop', or some such. When packaged as home repair materials they are
> a fraction of the cost of when the same material is packaged for aviation
> use.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim McBurney" <jmcburney(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire-Putty/ SealantFire-Putty/ SealantFire-Putty/ |
Sealant
Check local electrical supply houses for the 3M Fire Barrier. It's used in
industrial applications for (guess what) fire barriers.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA, USA
90% done, 90% left
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/17/08 |
Hi Ken et al-
The product I used, DAP Blockade, is an intumescent caulk, as I had noted
in my original post. ACS wants $18.95 a tube for theirs, plus shipping and
handling. I can't tell you what I paid locally anymore, but it was less
than $10. A quick look on the 'net revealed multiple sources for various
brands costing $7.70 to $10.70 per tube. There was one company offering
case lots as low as $2 / tube.
While it is absolutely true that you can get what you pay for, and we need
to be careful about quality issues, there is also always someone willing to
charge us a premium for the word 'aviation'.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire-Putty/ Sealant
>
>
> I'd caution that most fire rated caulks from the hardware store are
> essentially just silicone that have a fire rating to satisfy a
> particular building code. The one I tested was no better than red rtv
> gasket compound. While either will satisfy our local inspectors, the
> silicone products are not near as good as the itumescent 3M product.
> Less than 600*F vs. 2000*F. Aluminum melts around 1100*F as I recall.
>
> Occasionally you do get what you pay for.
>
> Ken
>
>
> glen matejcek wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jay-
> >
> > Up over here, on the northwest side of the planet ;-), these products
can
> > be had at many hardware outlets aside from home depot. They are
> > intumescent caulks, and come in a cartridge suitable for use in a
standard
> > home use caulking gun. They are typically displayed in the same area as
> > all the other window and siding caulks, being marketed as 'fire block',
> > 'fire stop', or some such. When packaged as home repair materials they
are
> > a fraction of the cost of when the same material is packaged for
aviation
> > use.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
| From: | "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com> |
Gentlemen,
I'm at a point where I need to decide how to connect wires in the wing, to the
corresponding wires in the fuselage. For DC stuff, I had planned to use the wiring
connectors one often sees connecting a trailer to a truck (and as seen on
aeroelectric.com). I'm now thinking that since I will need to splice these
connectors into the wiring anyway (2 splices for each wire), I might as well just
splice the WIRES together and eliminate the connector (1 splice per wire).
But I'm using wingtip nav antennas, and I'm wondering whether to use BNC connectors
or splice the coax. I don't know which will create more of an impedance
mismatch or RF loss, but I'm thinking for a receiver, it doesn't make a whole
lot of difference. What do you think?
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9384#209384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ceengland(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
Tom
This is not an answer to your question, because I don't know it. I will be
another one to profit from the responses you will get, because I didn't make
those connections either.
By the way, you are talking about "wingtip nav antennas", how many did you
install, and which type are they?
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tomcostanza
> Sent: domingo, 19 de Outubro de 2008 21:19
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections
>
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I'm at a point where I need to decide how to connect wires in the wing, to
the
> corresponding wires in the fuselage. For DC stuff, I had planned to use
the wiring
> connectors one often sees connecting a trailer to a truck (and as seen on
> aeroelectric.com). I'm now thinking that since I will need to splice
these connectors
> into the wiring anyway (2 splices for each wire), I might as well just
splice the
> WIRES together and eliminate the connector (1 splice per wire). But I'm
using
> wingtip nav antennas, and I'm wondering whether to use BNC connectors or
splice
> the coax. I don't know which will create more of an impedance mismatch or
RF
> loss, but I'm thinking for a receiver, it doesn't make a whole lot of
difference. What
> do you think?
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 15:52 10/19/2008, you wrote:
>But I'm using
> wingtip nav antennas, and I'm wondering whether to use BNC
> connectors or splice
> the coax. I don't know which will create more of an impedance
> mismatch or RF
> loss, but I'm thinking for a receiver, it doesn't make a whole lot
> of difference. What
> do you think?
Only one mans' opinion Tom, but given the choice of "splicing" coax
or using a pair of connectors; for me it's an absolute
brainer. Connectors, by all means. Minimum signal loss due to
impedance mismatch and contiguous shield to prevent unwanted signal
ingress. And given proper connectors much simpler and faster to
reliably terminate.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Routing wires point-to-point |
I am getting to route wires, aft of the firewall, and was wondering what
kind of methods guys used. The first time I did this, 20+ years ago, the
result was a spaghetti bowl.
I am thinking of hanging some loops of wire ties in various spots, then
running wires along those paths. When all the wires are in, I would secure
with the cromagnum** wire ties, rather than the more elegant lacing. It's
all hard to access and the ties are decidedly easier.
One recent post referred to wire loom. Is that easy to work with? What
about making short conduits?
Lets hear you.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I'm at a point where I need to decide how to connect wires in the wing, to
>the corresponding wires in the fuselage. For DC stuff, I had planned to
>use the wiring connectors one often sees connecting a trailer to a truck
>(and as seen on aeroelectric.com). I'm now thinking that since I will
>need to splice these connectors into the wiring anyway (2 splices for each
>wire), I might as well just splice the WIRES together and eliminate the
>connector (1 splice per wire). But I'm using wingtip nav antennas, and
>I'm wondering whether to use BNC connectors or splice the coax. I don't
>know which will create more of an impedance mismatch or RF loss, but I'm
>thinking for a receiver, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. What
>do you think?
The airplanes I fly are on average, 15+ years old.
I'll bet not a one of them has ever had the wings off.
If I were building an airplane, wings would be wired as
they are built and 10' or so pigtails left at the fuselage
end coiled up for later routing into the fuselage and
attachment to their respective destinations . . .but
with a "service loop" about 4-6" in diameter (12-18"
of slack wire) under the wing root fairing.
Should it become necessary to EVER remove the wings,
then cut wires and/or coaxes in the middle of their
service loops. When replacing the wings, permanent
splices (and mated coax cable connectors)
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_1.jpg
or
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Bulkhead_Female.jpg
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
are in order for re-attaching the wings and associated
wiring.
For permanent splices, these critters are certainly
an option . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/PIDG-Splices.jpg
these are also favored by the grey beards for
closing cut lines but leaving a service connection
behind . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/ksplc2.jpg
If you wanted to use one one of these style
connectors
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/wingwire/wingwire.html
you could also consider this technique for making
high-quality, permanent splices of ship's wiring
to the connector's pigtails . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
Inclusion of a "service loop" of excess wire at
time of original fabrication allows for a dozen or
more cut-out-and-replace operations on individual
wires over the lifetime of the airplane.
Finally, I had a chance to fiddle with these
connectors while wiring Ol' Blue (My hand-me-down
'87 Jimmy) to tow a trailer. This was the first
time I'd put my hands on this combination of
connectors:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/Trailer_Lights_Plug.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/Trailer_Lights_Jack.jpg
This mated pair of connectors offers some interesting
design features. The male pins in the jack are solid
bifurcated brass that plug into seamless tube sockets
in the plug housing. The spring loaded lid has a retaining
dog that holds the plug engaged the jack. These are only
slightly heavier than their mil-spec counterparts and
they're a whole lot cheaper. The only disappointment was
the wire attach methodology that runs a screw thread down
against the wire strands.
I installed wires by cutting 2x long, folding the strands
back and soldering them such that they became a solid, solder
encased "plug". run the screw down against the plug nice and
tight and follow up with an encapsulation of E6000 not unlike
what we did here
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
to deal with those pesky little 26AWG wires on a RayAllen
actuator.
The wiring jack can probably be mounted to fuselage skin
under the wing root fairing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
>I am getting to route wires, aft of the firewall, and was wondering what
>kind of methods guys used. The first time I did this, 20+ years ago, the
>result was a spaghetti bowl.
>
>I am thinking of hanging some loops of wire ties in various spots, then
>running wires along those paths. When all the wires are in, I would
>secure with the cromagnum wire ties, rather than the more elegant
>lacing. It's all hard to access and the ties are decidedly easier.
>
>One recent post referred to wire loom. Is that easy to work with? What
>about making short conduits?
Lay out your wire routes for finished bundles. Run
some Nylaflow 1/4" tubing on little plastic wire
bundle clamps. You can get the tubing from hardware
stores and big boxes like Home Depot. It's used
to plumb up ice-makers in refrigerators . . . among
other things. The 1/4" clamps can be had from most
'real' hardware stores . . . or you can simply make up
a little band clamp out of tin-can metal. These are
temporary. Install the clamps at the same attach points
that you plan to use for finished bundle supports.
Use bond studs, nutplates, etc.
Lay your 'real' wire bundles up along side these
Nylaflow road markers. Get a wad of el-chesso tie
wraps from Harbor Freight to hold each new wire into
place cutting off ties underneath new wires as they
become surplus.
After your bundles are all finished. cut out segments
of Nylaflow and Replace throwaway ties with good tie
wraps or string ties. Replace your temporary bundle
support clamps with the real ones.
This technique allows you to set the wire-way for
bundles that are many strands from self-supporting.
This allows you to apply finishing restraints in an
orderly cutting the forms away as you go after the
bundles are completely finished.
You can also use heavy copper wire #10AWG solid
ground wire is generally stiff enough. You may find
other materials that will do as well.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> Lay out your wire routes for finished bundles. Run
> some Nylaflow 1/4" tubing on little plastic wire
> bundle clamps. You can get the tubing from hardware
> stores and big boxes like Home Depot. It's used
> to plumb up ice-makers in refrigerators . . . among
> other things. The 1/4" clamps can be had from most
> 'real' hardware stores . . . or you can simply make up
> a little band clamp out of tin-can metal. These are
> temporary. Install the clamps at the same attach points
> that you plan to use for finished bundle supports.
> Use bond studs, nutplates, etc.
>
> Lay your 'real' wire bundles up along side these
> Nylaflow road markers. Get a wad of el-chesso tie
> wraps from Harbor Freight to hold each new wire into
> place cutting off ties underneath new wires as they
> become surplus.
>
> After your bundles are all finished. cut out segments
> of Nylaflow and Replace throwaway ties with good tie
> wraps or string ties. Replace your temporary bundle
> support clamps with the real ones.
>
> This technique allows you to set the wire-way for
> bundles that are many strands from self-supporting.
> This allows you to apply finishing restraints in an
> orderly cutting the forms away as you go after the
> bundles are completely finished.
>
> You can also use heavy copper wire #10AWG solid
> ground wire is generally stiff enough. You may find
> other materials that will do as well.
>
It might be worth noting that the new self-sticking (double-
sided) velcro strips make excellent temporary, reusable
bundle ties. When done with the wiring, replace them with
one's preferred permanent ties, and reuse the temps on the
next bundle being assembled. And they are easily available
from your friendly local H.D. aviation supply store.
(Home Depot)
Dale R.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
I found a very temporary type of "velcro" at the garden department of Lowes.?
It is green in color since it is meant for use on plant materials. It is "sticky"
enough, but not nearly as hard to un-do as regular Velcro. Great for temporary
bundling.
I also found a "plenum rated" type of Velcro that I used as a permanent tie in
several places. This material is fire resistant and made for above-the-ceiling
wiring (where it is required by most building codes) and in data centers.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Rogers <dale.r(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 9:22 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Routing wires point-to-point
?
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:?
> ?
>?
> Lay out your wire routes for finished bundles. Run?
> some Nylaflow 1/4" tubing on little plastic wire?
> bundle clamps. You can get the tubing from hardware?
> stores and big boxes like Home Depot. It's used?
> to plumb up ice-makers in refrigerators . . . among?
> other things. The 1/4" clamps can be had from most?
> 'real' hardware stores . . . or you can simply make up?
> a little band clamp out of tin-can metal. These are?
> temporary. Install the clamps at the same attach points?
> that you plan to use for finished bundle supports.?
> Use bond studs, nutplates, etc.?
>?
> Lay your 'real' wire bundles up along side these?
> Nylaflow road markers. Get a wad of el-chesso tie?
> wraps from Harbor Freight to hold each new wire into?
> place cutting off ties underneath new wires as they?
> become surplus.?
>?
> After your bundles are all finished. cut out segments?
> of Nylaflow and Replace throwaway ties with good tie?
> wraps or string ties. Replace your temporary bundle?
> support clamps with the real ones.?
>?
> This technique allows you to set the wire-way for?
> bundles that are many strands from self-supporting.?
> This allows you to apply finishing restraints in an?
> orderly cutting the forms away as you go after the?
> bundles are completely finished.?
>?
> You can also use heavy copper wire #10AWG solid?
> ground wire is generally stiff enough. You may find?
> other materials that will do as well.?
>?
?
It might be worth noting that the new self-sticking (double-?
sided) velcro strips make excellent temporary, reusable?
bundle ties. When done with the wiring, replace them with?
one's preferred permanent ties, and reuse the temps on the?
next bundle being assembled. And they are easily available?
from your friendly local H.D. aviation supply store.?
?
(Home Depot)?
?
Dale R.?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
Sounds like an excellent tip, Bob. I even have some Nylaflow tubing in the
hangar.
I'll start today.
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>
>
>> I am getting to route wires, aft of the firewall, and was wondering what
>> kind of methods guys used. The first time I did this, 20+ years ago, the
>> result was a spaghetti bowl.
>>
>> I am thinking of hanging some loops of wire ties in various spots, then
>> running wires along those paths. When all the wires are in, I would secure
>> with the cromagnum wire ties, rather than the more elegant lacing. It's all
>> hard to access and the ties are decidedly easier.
>>
>> One recent post referred to wire loom. Is that easy to work with? What
>> about making short conduits?
>>
>
> Lay out your wire routes for finished bundles. Run
> some Nylaflow 1/4" tubing on little plastic wire
> bundle clamps. You can get the tubing from hardware
> stores and big boxes like Home Depot. It's used
> to plumb up ice-makers in refrigerators . . . among
> other things. The 1/4" clamps can be had from most
> 'real' hardware stores . . . or you can simply make up
> a little band clamp out of tin-can metal. These are
> temporary. Install the clamps at the same attach points
> that you plan to use for finished bundle supports.
> Use bond studs, nutplates, etc.
>
> Lay your 'real' wire bundles up along side these
> Nylaflow road markers. Get a wad of el-chesso tie
> wraps from Harbor Freight to hold each new wire into
> place cutting off ties underneath new wires as they
> become surplus.
>
> After your bundles are all finished. cut out segments
> of Nylaflow and Replace throwaway ties with good tie
> wraps or string ties. Replace your temporary bundle
> support clamps with the real ones.
>
> This technique allows you to set the wire-way for
> bundles that are many strands from self-supporting.
> This allows you to apply finishing restraints in an
> orderly cutting the forms away as you go after the
> bundles are completely finished.
>
> You can also use heavy copper wire #10AWG solid
> ground wire is generally stiff enough. You may find
> other materials that will do as well.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 10/19/08 |
>If I were building an airplane, wings would be wired as
>they are built and 10' or so pigtails left at the fuselage
>end coiled up for later routing into the fuselage and
>>attachment to their respective destinations . . .but
>with a "service loop" about 4-6" in diameter (12-18"
>of slack wire) under the wing root fairing.
>
>Should it become necessary to EVER remove the wings,
>then cut wires and/or coaxes in the middle of their
>service loops. When replacing the wings, permanent
>splices (and mated coax cable connectors)...
Precisely the approach I used. I would add that should I ever pull the
wings, I would add the connectors, one wire at a time, located such that
the connector will be inside the fuselage under the floorboards and out of
the weather, as opposed to under the wing root fairing. The floor boards
will need to be removed to access the spar bolts anyway.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
| From: | "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com> |
> By the way, you are talking about wingtip nav antennas, how many did you install,
and which type are they?
Carlos,
I'll be installing the Bob Archer nav antennas (one in each wingtip) for a VOR/LOC
antenna, and using a diplexer to feed the glide slope.
> If I were building an airplane, wings would be wired as
> they are built and 10' or so pigtails left at the fuselage
> end coiled up for later routing into the fuselage and
> attachment to their respective destinations . . .but
> with a "service loop" about 4-6" in diameter (12-18"
> of slack wire) under the wing root fairing.
Bob,
Thanks. In a perfect world, I would do the same. However, I'm trying to do as
much as possible in the shop. I feel I can do a better job when I have as much
heat, light, and tools as I need. So I'm going to wire everything I can before
moving to the airport. Hopefully, I can just bolt the wings, empenage and
fairings on and be done. I'm not even sure I'll have a hangar available. Even
if I do have a hangar, the cost is more than a BMW car payment each month,
so I'd like to minimize the time I rent it.
So it's looking like I'll use BNC connectors for the coax, and splice the DC wires.
Thanks again.
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9451#209451
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
Dale Rogers wrote:
>
>
> It might be worth noting that the new self-sticking (double-
> sided) velcro strips make excellent temporary, reusable
> bundle ties. When done with the wiring, replace them with
> one's preferred permanent ties, and reuse the temps on the
> next bundle being assembled. And they are easily available
> from your friendly local H.D. aviation supply store.
>
> (Home Depot)
>
> Dale R.
>
>
Why replace the velcro, Dale? What is wrong with leaving the velcro as
the permanent attachment?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries? |
| From: | "Beemer" <bmwebb(at)cox.net> |
>
>
> Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have
> the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've
> found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah.
>
> Thx,
> Bradley
>
>
>
> What are your requirements for capacity? Have you
> done an energy study for battery-only endurance?
> The 310 is not cheap and it's fragile compared to it's
> larger siblings.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
After much discussion, we think this is how my electrically-dependent engine breaks
out...
>
>
> Current draw on 4 cylinder EFI engines:
>
> Pump at 40 psi- 5-8 amps
> Injectors at 5000 rpm- 3-4 amps
> Ignition at 5000 rpm- 2.5-4 amps (depends on coil charge time)
> ECU- .15- .6 amps depending on ECU
>
> My total current draw in flight at 4500 rpm with 2 pumps on (one LP
> Facet, one HP Bosch 048), transponder, comm, gps, injectors, coils,
> ECU and scavenge pump is 18 amps.
We seem to think that the 17ah PC680 clone would give just about 15 minutes of
realistic run time, given some age on the battery. I guess I might have to carry
the weight of another battery around to be safe.
Bradley
--------
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Middle Georgia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9455#209455
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip |
Bill,
Thanks for the heads up. I missed that diagram the first time around.
That worked as advertised. The trim and owner are now happy!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Denton
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip
Did you look at Figure 2 on Page 4 of this document:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf
Thanks!
Bill Denton
bdenton(at)bdenton.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg(at)pjm.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring the G207 Ray Allen Grip
I am installing a single G207 hand grip on my grocery getter and need
some help with the two auxiliary switches at the top or front of the
grip. I purchased the unit complete with two push button switches at the
top.
If you are familiar with the G207 there are 4 flush mounted buttons on
top with one PTT on the front of the switch. There is an option for
either two toggle or two push button switches just in front of the 4
flush mounted buttons.
The PTT and four flush buttons are working as designed with no issues. I
use them for aileron trim and elevator trim. I want to use the 2
optional buttons for the rudder trim.
Ray Allen does not offer any ideas or schematics indicating there are
just too may options for wiring them. I want to see if anyone has used
them for a trim motor (in my case the rudder trim) and how they finally
wired them up. The switches have 3 connection points each and there is
continuity between two of them at all times. The 3rd is closed when the
button is pushed.
I have tried the obvious, ground to open, hot and switch to closed and
so on - and the reverse. Nothing so far but blown fuses.
I am using the T2-7A trim motor for the rudder which is a 5 wire unit.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Routing wires point-to-point |
I just passed through the same dilemma. What to do, what to do. On my
bird the wings may be detached for fuel line maintenance or perhaps
transport at some point, so I decided to install one DB15 connector in
the fuselage to handle trim and wing lights which need to be loose to
detach the wings.
I wanted to use the trailer type connectors but had no luck finding the
necessary 5-pole jobs (Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Hardware, Pep Boys
etc.) so gave up and decided a good male/female db connector setup held
the most promise. I hope to never separate the two, but you never know.
After initial run-up etc I plan to pull the wings and flush the tanks
out once more. I take the approach of doing everything for the sake of
future maintenance. If your fuel lines have connectors between the stub
and the wing that may be one more reason for taking the wings off to
replace hoses or fix a leak.
It's Murphy's law, what goes up will need maintenance when it comes
down.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Routing wires point-to-point
Dale Rogers wrote:
>
>
> It might be worth noting that the new self-sticking (double-
> sided) velcro strips make excellent temporary, reusable
> bundle ties. When done with the wiring, replace them with
> one's preferred permanent ties, and reuse the temps on the
> next bundle being assembled. And they are easily available
> from your friendly local H.D. aviation supply store.
>
> (Home Depot)
>
> Dale R.
>
>
Why replace the velcro, Dale? What is wrong with leaving the velcro as
the permanent attachment?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
When should you ground components locally and when should you ground to
the battery directly?
Flap motor? Lights? Pitot heat? Defrost fans, and the like?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McArdle" <rmacpunk(at)netzero.net> |
Where can I purchase a 10 slot plastic fuse block that can be panel
mounted with the terminals coming out the back?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires point-to-point |
Sam,
I believe Bob's technique to be the best. I did mine that way and it was
relatively straight forwarded - even for a beginner like me. One suggestion is
that when you buy the el-cheeso tie wraps from Harbor Freight - buy red ones
or orange ones (or some other color you wouldn't want on your plane's
wiring). That way when you are ready to replace them with higher quality ties,
finding the correct ones to remove and replace will not be difficult. Don't ask
me how I discovered this.
Stan Sutterfield
Lay your 'real' wire bundles up along side these
Nylaflow road markers. Get a wad of el-chesso tie
wraps from Harbor Freight to hold each new wire into
place cutting off ties underneath new wires as they
become surplus.
After your bundles are all finished. cut out segments
of Nylaflow and Replace throwaway ties with good tie
wraps or string ties. Replace your temporary bundle
support clamps with the real ones.
This technique allows you to set the wire-way for
bundles that are many strands from self-supporting.
This allows you to apply finishing restraints in an
orderly cutting the forms away as you go after the
bundles are completely finished.
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
Head for the boat yard. Blue Sea and West Marine sell them. They ain't
cheap but they're pretty. They include various labels and have an LED
"on" indicator.
http://www.westmarine.com
Search for "fuse panel"
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McArdle
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuse block
Where can I purchase a 10 slot plastic fuse block that can be panel
mounted with the terminals coming out the back?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Ronco" <joe(at)halzel.com> |
BOB: You may want to check out the Bussmann 15710 series at
http://www.coopertp.com/pdf/39dd59f2-bbbd-48b4-88cf-40977f474e1f.pdf
You could call Bussmann at 888-867-8194 to find out where you can purchase
them. I will probably use it on my project.
Also look at the picture at
http://tincantimes.dcsol.com/Default7_files/2005_0302_173652AA.jpg
for an installation on a Murphy Rebel. This guy bought it at
http://www.mihdirect.biz/
This web site also has a link to an RV-8 installation.
Hope this helps.
Joe R
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McArdle
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuse block
Where can I purchase a 10 slot plastic fuse block that can be panel mounted
with the terminals coming out the back?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
> I am probably missing something here, but why are we talking fuses instead
> of circuit breakers?
>
Because some people prefer fuses. No mystery, unless I'm missing something.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Head Set Jack shoring out |
Bob,
I received this message from a FBO where I rent planes. Any idea why this
is even possible?
"When flying Diamond aircraft at Wings of Eagles, headsets MUST be plugged
in BEFORE turning the radios on. If this procedure is not followed, it
could result in the headset jack shorting out, which renders the jack
inoperative & obviously not being able to communicate effectively. Your
adherence to this practice will result in a more pleasant flight experience
and less aircraft down time due to maintenance. Thank you in advance for
your cooperation"
Marty RV6A Finishing.
Brentwood TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries? |
Bradley,
Those numbers seem a little high. I know the Walbro pump I'm going to use
is listed at 4 amps. What injectors and coils are you using?, Again, to my
uneducated mind those numbers seem high.
I have a similar setup and I think I'm looking at around 8 amps.
RWS EC3 controller
Walbro pump
Delco LS-1 coils
Transponder, GPS, COM, etc.
Two contactors
I have the LS-1 coils only using 1/2 amp.
Sam
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Beemer wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have
> > the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've
> > found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah.
> >
> > Thx,
> > Bradley
> >
> >
> >
> > What are your requirements for capacity? Have you
> > done an energy study for battery-only endurance?
> > The 310 is not cheap and it's fragile compared to it's
> > larger siblings.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
> After much discussion, we think this is how my electrically-dependent
> engine breaks out...
>
>
> >
> >
> > Current draw on 4 cylinder EFI engines:
> >
> > Pump at 40 psi- 5-8 amps
> > Injectors at 5000 rpm- 3-4 amps
> > Ignition at 5000 rpm- 2.5-4 amps (depends on coil charge time)
> > ECU- .15- .6 amps depending on ECU
> >
> > My total current draw in flight at 4500 rpm with 2 pumps on (one LP
> > Facet, one HP Bosch 048), transponder, comm, gps, injectors, coils,
> > ECU and scavenge pump is 18 amps.
>
>
> We seem to think that the 17ah PC680 clone would give just about 15 minutes
> of realistic run time, given some age on the battery. I guess I might have
> to carry the weight of another battery around to be safe.
>
> Bradley
>
> --------
> Beemer
> KF2 (and now an M3!)
> Middle Georgia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9455#209455
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries? |
Bradley,
I am installing a similar system and I think those numbers seem a little
high. I know the Walbro pump I'm going to use
is listed at 4 amps. What injectors and coils are you using?, Again, to my
uneducated mind those numbers seem high.
I have a similar setup and I think I'm looking at around 12.5 amps.
RWS EC3 controller
Walbro pump
Delco LS-1 coils
Transponder, GPS, COM, etc.
Two contactors
I have the LS-1 coils only using 1/2 amp.
Sam
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Beemer wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have
> > the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've
> > found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah.
> >
> > Thx,
> > Bradley
> >
> >
> >
> > What are your requirements for capacity? Have you
> > done an energy study for battery-only endurance?
> > The 310 is not cheap and it's fragile compared to it's
> > larger siblings.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
> After much discussion, we think this is how my electrically-dependent
> engine breaks out...
>
>
> >
> >
> > Current draw on 4 cylinder EFI engines:
> >
> > Pump at 40 psi- 5-8 amps
> > Injectors at 5000 rpm- 3-4 amps
> > Ignition at 5000 rpm- 2.5-4 amps (depends on coil charge time)
> > ECU- .15- .6 amps depending on ECU
> >
> > My total current draw in flight at 4500 rpm with 2 pumps on (one LP
> > Facet, one HP Bosch 048), transponder, comm, gps, injectors, coils,
> > ECU and scavenge pump is 18 amps.
>
>
> We seem to think that the 17ah PC680 clone would give just about 15 minutes
> of realistic run time, given some age on the battery. I guess I might have
> to carry the weight of another battery around to be safe.
>
> Bradley
>
> --------
> Beemer
> KF2 (and now an M3!)
> Middle Georgia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9455#209455
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
COST and reliability. If you have a problem and it trips the protective
device - no matter what it is, you do NOT want to try to solve it while
flying. When you reach your landing area, you can then solve the problem
and in the case of fuses, fix the trip after solving the problem. Ckt
breakers are very expensive and provide no additional protection over the
lowly fuse. How many people have lost their lives over a tripped breaker
and tried to solve it while flying. Wasn't there a commercial airliner
that crashed in the Everglades while trying to solve a little problem
like that?? I saved my money and I am spending it on gas. 16+ hours
and loving it.
Jim Nelson
RV9-A
____________________________________________________________
Do it right the first time. Click to find contractors to work on your home improvement
project.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nHrlrfJ54czFpkvi2u4357U6MDat214l4kp0QaP3uJi28Tf/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries? |
> >
> > What are your requirements for capacity? Have you
> > done an energy study for battery-only endurance?
> > The 310 is not cheap and it's fragile compared to it's
> > larger siblings.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > After much discussion, we think this is how my electrically-dependent
> engine breaks out...
>
> > Current draw on 4 cylinder EFI engines:
> >
> > Pump at 40 psi- 5-8 amps
> > Injectors at 5000 rpm- 3-4 amps
> > Ignition at 5000 rpm- 2.5-4 amps (depends on coil charge time)
> > ECU- .15- .6 amps depending on ECU
> >
> > My total current draw in flight at 4500 rpm with 2 pumps on (one LP
> > Facet, one HP Bosch 048), transponder, comm, gps, injectors, coils,
> > ECU and scavenge pump is 18 amps.
>
>
>We seem to think that the 17ah PC680 clone would give just about 15
>minutes of realistic run time, given some age on the battery. I guess I
>might have to carry the weight of another battery around to be safe.
According to the performance curves at:
http://tinyurl.com/5p6d4w
a 17A load on a 100% battery will give you just
under 30 minutes of run time down to about 10V. So
a battery due for replacement would be suited
for about 20 minutes of operation.
Consider running both batteries of a 2-battery
architecture in parallel. Losses in any given battery is an
I(squared)*R function. By cutting the current per
battery by about 1/2, the energy lost in each battery
drops to 1/4th the original amount. Doing 1/4
per battery in two batteries gets you 1/2 the
lost watts. Two 17 a.h. batteries gives you
34 a.h. of total capacity. An 18A load on this
combo goes to a 60+ minutes of duration.
A savings of 5 or so pounds can be realized by
going to a single 28 a.h. battery.
http://tinyurl.com/6eu2p8
The internal impedance of this battery seems
better than two 17 a.h. in parallel. It gives
you the same 60+ minutes at less weight
and total capacity.
Of course, with a single battery or treating
two batteries as one battery dictates an
aggressive capacity tracking protocol. If
ever there was an power plant begging for
a second, small alternator, it's this one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>When should you ground components locally and when should you ground to
>the battery directly?
>Flap motor? Lights? Pitot heat? Defrost fans, and the like?
Nothing grounds directly to the battery. The battery
and all things local to the panel and engine should
go to a single point ground on the firewall. See View -A-
of figure 15 of:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11M.pdf
Stuff away from the panel like landing lights, strobe
supplies, position lights and pitot heat can ground
locally to structure.
Also see photos of grounding accessories at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Head Set Jack shoring out |
>
>Bob,
>
>I received this message from a FBO where I rent planes. Any idea why this
>is even possible?
>
>"When flying Diamond aircraft at Wings of Eagles, headsets MUST be plugged
>in BEFORE turning the radios on. If this procedure is not followed, it
>could result in the headset jack shorting out, which renders the jack
>inoperative & obviously not being able to communicate effectively. Your
>adherence to this practice will result in a more pleasant flight experience
>and less aircraft down time due to maintenance. Thank you in advance for
>your cooperation"
I am unaware of the physics that might justify such a protocol.
It is true that for stereo headphones and depending on the
design of the jack, right and left channels can be momentarily
shorted together but I'm betting these are not stereo headset
installations . . . and even so, momentary shorts between channels
shouldn't be big deal.
I've never encountered a microphone or headset installation
where engaging or disengaging the connector while the radios
are ON presents any kind of risk to the equipment. It would
be interesting to talk to the technicians who are making repairs
alleged to have been precipitated by ungraceful mating of
headset connectors.
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Routing wires point-to-point |
>
>I just passed through the same dilemma. What to do, what to do. On my
>bird the wings may be detached for fuel line maintenance or perhaps
>transport at some point, so I decided to install one DB15 connector in
>the fuselage to handle trim and wing lights which need to be loose to
>detach the wings.
Are you paralleling some of the pins per . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/D-Sub_Power_Dist_1.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Routing wires point-to-point |
Bob,
Good point. Max is 2 amps for either trim or led strobe lights, so I
should be ok?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Routing wires point-to-point
>
>I just passed through the same dilemma. What to do, what to do. On my
>bird the wings may be detached for fuel line maintenance or perhaps
>transport at some point, so I decided to install one DB15 connector in
>the fuselage to handle trim and wing lights which need to be loose to
>detach the wings.
Are you paralleling some of the pins per . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/D-Sub_Power_Dist_1.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Myself as well as many other builders in my area have simply used the B
& C grounding block. It's a thing of beauty. 48 inside and 24 on the
firewall. If that doesn't cut it, better to chat with Boeing on that
SFAR88 thingy.
Kudos to B & C for coming up with a simple but elegant solution to
grounding.
Yes, unless it's a 59' Plymouth with one of those Morse code looking
regulators, don't run grounds to the battery.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding
>When should you ground components locally and when should you ground to
>the battery directly?
>Flap motor? Lights? Pitot heat? Defrost fans, and the like?
Nothing grounds directly to the battery. The battery
and all things local to the panel and engine should
go to a single point ground on the firewall. See View -A-
of figure 15 of:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11M.pdf
Stuff away from the panel like landing lights, strobe
supplies, position lights and pitot heat can ground
locally to structure.
Also see photos of grounding accessories at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Flagstone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
What are the thoughts on using MOLEX connectors?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections
>
>
>>
>>
>>Gentlemen,
>>
>>I'm at a point where I need to decide how to connect wires in the wing, to
>>the corresponding wires in the fuselage. For DC stuff, I had planned to
>>use the wiring connectors one often sees connecting a trailer to a truck
>>(and as seen on aeroelectric.com). I'm now thinking that since I will
>>need to splice these connectors into the wiring anyway (2 splices for each
>>wire), I might as well just splice the WIRES together and eliminate the
>>connector (1 splice per wire). But I'm using wingtip nav antennas, and
>>I'm wondering whether to use BNC connectors or splice the coax. I don't
>>know which will create more of an impedance mismatch or RF loss, but I'm
>>thinking for a receiver, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. What
>>do you think?
>
> The airplanes I fly are on average, 15+ years old.
> I'll bet not a one of them has ever had the wings off.
> If I were building an airplane, wings would be wired as
> they are built and 10' or so pigtails left at the fuselage
> end coiled up for later routing into the fuselage and
> attachment to their respective destinations . . .but
> with a "service loop" about 4-6" in diameter (12-18"
> of slack wire) under the wing root fairing.
>
> Should it become necessary to EVER remove the wings,
> then cut wires and/or coaxes in the middle of their
> service loops. When replacing the wings, permanent
> splices (and mated coax cable connectors)
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_1.jpg
>
> or
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Bulkhead_Female.jpg
>
> and
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
>
>
> are in order for re-attaching the wings and associated
> wiring.
>
> For permanent splices, these critters are certainly
> an option . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/PIDG-Splices.jpg
>
> these are also favored by the grey beards for
> closing cut lines but leaving a service connection
> behind . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/ksplc2.jpg
>
> If you wanted to use one one of these style
> connectors
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/wingwire/wingwire.html
>
> you could also consider this technique for making
> high-quality, permanent splices of ship's wiring
> to the connector's pigtails . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
>
> Inclusion of a "service loop" of excess wire at
> time of original fabrication allows for a dozen or
> more cut-out-and-replace operations on individual
> wires over the lifetime of the airplane.
>
> Finally, I had a chance to fiddle with these
> connectors while wiring Ol' Blue (My hand-me-down
> '87 Jimmy) to tow a trailer. This was the first
> time I'd put my hands on this combination of
> connectors:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/Trailer_Lights_Plug.jpg
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/Trailer_Lights_Jack.jpg
>
> This mated pair of connectors offers some interesting
> design features. The male pins in the jack are solid
> bifurcated brass that plug into seamless tube sockets
> in the plug housing. The spring loaded lid has a retaining
> dog that holds the plug engaged the jack. These are only
> slightly heavier than their mil-spec counterparts and
> they're a whole lot cheaper. The only disappointment was
> the wire attach methodology that runs a screw thread down
> against the wire strands.
>
> I installed wires by cutting 2x long, folding the strands
> back and soldering them such that they became a solid, solder
> encased "plug". run the screw down against the plug nice and
> tight and follow up with an encapsulation of E6000 not unlike
> what we did here
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
>
> to deal with those pesky little 26AWG wires on a RayAllen
> actuator.
>
> The wiring jack can probably be mounted to fuselage skin
> under the wing root fairing.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Good devices and easy to use. I used them on both of my builds.
Jim
____________________________________________________________
Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m4pC6XacHZcPyTSRB9VrOczUjVt1LyhVGNOIafLQmBfRlfb/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RScott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: Frank Feldman] |
A man walks into the street and manages to get a taxi just going by.
He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says,
"Perfect timing. You're just like Frank"
Passenger: "Who?"
Cabbie: "Frank Feldman. He's a guy who did everything right all the time.
Like my coming along when you needed a cab, things happened like that
to Frank Feldman every single time."
Passenger: "There are always a few clouds over everybody."
Cabbie: "Not Frank Feldman. He was a terrific athlete. He could have
won the Grand-Slam at tennis. He could golf with the pros. He sang like
an opera baritone and danced like a Broadway star and you should have heard
him play the piano. He was an amazing guy."
Passenger: Sounds like he was something really special.
Cabbie: "There's more... He had a memory like a computer.
Could remember everybody's birthday.
He knew all about wine, which foods to order and which
fork to eat them with. He could fix anything. Not like me.
I change a fuse, and the whole street blacks out.
But Frank Feldman, he could do everything right."
Passenger. "Wow, some guy then."
Cabbie: "He always knew the quickest way to go in traffic and avoid
traffic jams. Not like me, I always seem to get stuck in them.
But Frank, he never made a mistake,
and he really knew how to treat a woman and make her feel good.
He would never answer her back even if she was in the wrong;
and his clothing was always immaculate, shoes highly polished too --
he was the perfect man!
He never made a mistake.
No one could ever measure up to Frank Feldman."
Passenger: "An amazing fellow. How did you meet him?"
Cabbie: "Well, I never actually met Frank.
I just married his f*cking widow."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
>
>What are the thoughts on using MOLEX connectors?
Molex makes a raft of different connectors but
I presume your talking about white nylon critters
that look like these:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
Waldom/Molex and Tyco/AMP both have variations
on this theme of power connectors. The Mate-n-Locks
were incorporated into the single-engine airplanes
at Cessna while I was still in their employ . . .
about 1968. As far as I know, there were no big
service issues that popped up resulting from
utilization of these connectors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>Myself as well as many other builders in my area have simply used the B
>& C grounding block. It's a thing of beauty. 48 inside and 24 on the
>firewall. If that doesn't cut it, better to chat with Boeing on that
>SFAR88 thingy.
>
>Kudos to B & C for coming up with a simple but elegant solution to
>grounding.
That's a product we developed here and sold for a time
before turning it over to B&C. We're going to be offering
a panel-ground concentrator block in the near future.
It will look like this:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/AVG_RA.jpg
We're looking at a more compact version of the forest-
of-ground-tabs too, but that one is not a done deal
yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Routing wires point-to-point |
>
>Bob,
>Good point. Max is 2 amps for either trim or led strobe lights, so I
>should be ok?
Yup.
Landing lights get bigger tho . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator questions |
When I bought a Honda auto alternator for my Cozy many moons ago,
it's spec said it puts out 70 amps at 10,000 revs.
I don't need anything like 70 amps (nor the associated heat) and I
didn't like the idea of anything turning at 10,000 revs under my
cowling, so I turned up a larger pulley to step down the alternator
speed and it's output.
I think I went too far. The original pulley was about 2" diameter and
used a flat belt. My new pulley is about 5 1/2" diameter with a
machined "V" belt groove to match the Lycoming flywheel. My voltmeter
barely indicates 12v at 2000 engine revs (and nothing like the 13.6
volts I think it should be) and my ammeter is showing a slight
discharge when the engine is running, suggesting the ammeter isn't
charging the battery. Up till now, I put the readings down to poor
gauge quality.
So my questions are;
1) Would I see a "low" voltage reading if the alternator wasn't
turning fast enough?
2) Is there a low-end threshold rpm at which the alternator must run
to sustain battery charge? What happens on a car at idle RPM?
3) Was my logic flawed about stepping down the alternator RPM?
Thanks for comments.
Neil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator questions |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
It sounds like your alternator or wiring is kaput. The bare battery
should have about 12.5V by itself. If the alternator is turning at all,
and the bus loads are low, the bus should at least maintain 12.5V. Even
with the larger pulley, the alternator is going to turn several times the
engine RPM. I'd guess that the flywheel is probably at least 18 inches in
diameter which would be between three and four times the diameter of the
alternator pulley. That means that at 2000 engine RPM, the alternator is
turning between 6000 and 8000 RPM. Plenty for normal output.
I'd say check the wiring, and if all that looks good, pull the alternator
and take it to Autozone or someplace with an alternator test stand have it
checked out.
Matt-
>
>
> When I bought a Honda auto alternator for my Cozy many moons ago,
> it's spec said it puts out 70 amps at 10,000 revs.
> I don't need anything like 70 amps (nor the associated heat) and I
> didn't like the idea of anything turning at 10,000 revs under my
> cowling, so I turned up a larger pulley to step down the alternator
> speed and it's output.
>
> I think I went too far. The original pulley was about 2" diameter and
> used a flat belt. My new pulley is about 5 1/2" diameter with a
> machined "V" belt groove to match the Lycoming flywheel. My voltmeter
> barely indicates 12v at 2000 engine revs (and nothing like the 13.6
> volts I think it should be) and my ammeter is showing a slight
> discharge when the engine is running, suggesting the ammeter isn't
> charging the battery. Up till now, I put the readings down to poor
> gauge quality.
>
> So my questions are;
> 1) Would I see a "low" voltage reading if the alternator wasn't
> turning fast enough?
> 2) Is there a low-end threshold rpm at which the alternator must run
> to sustain battery charge? What happens on a car at idle RPM?
> 3) Was my logic flawed about stepping down the alternator RPM?
>
> Thanks for comments.
> Neil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator questions |
>
>It sounds like your alternator or wiring is kaput. The bare battery
>should have about 12.5V by itself. If the alternator is turning at all,
>and the bus loads are low, the bus should at least maintain 12.5V. Even
>with the larger pulley, the alternator is going to turn several times the
>engine RPM. I'd guess that the flywheel is probably at least 18 inches in
>diameter which would be between three and four times the diameter of the
>alternator pulley. That means that at 2000 engine RPM, the alternator is
>turning between 6000 and 8000 RPM. Plenty for normal output.
>
>I'd say check the wiring, and if all that looks good, pull the alternator
>and take it to Autozone or someplace with an alternator test stand have it
>checked out.
That's a good first start. Automotive alternators
tend to develop full output in the 4000 to 5000 RPM
range. A typical plot looks like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/80A_OutCurve.gif
If your alternator pulley is smaller than engine
pulley, then at 2,000 rpm your alternator should
be capable of full or nearly full output. I agree
with Matt that your particular specimen is either
not hooked up right or kaput.
On Lycoming installations, it's not uncommon to leave
the stock small pulleys on modern alternators. 10K+
RPM is not especially hard on them. Field current is
lower, fans run more air, and you get full output at
taxi rpms to recharge the battery after start-up.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/60A_Nipon_Denso.jpg
This particular item has been installed on thousands
of Lycomings as has it's smaller stable mate, both of
which run the small pulley. Service record has been
excellent.
Check your wiring . . . then have the alternator
checked.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Filtered BuckPuck LED Drivers |
Zach and Juanita just left for the evening. We
stuffed, tested and conformal coated the first
batch of filtered BuckPuck supplies. They went
into the mail this evening.
We're short some parts so Zach will assemble
another batch tomorrow after we get a care package
from Digikey.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator questions |
Hi Neil,
Assuming the alternator and it's support system (wiring) are in good form, a
pulley something close to three inch DIA. should offer good idle output
without over revving the unit at 2700 RPM. Modern alternators can
comfortably handle revs in excess of 12000 RPM.
Conservatively speaking the Honda that your unit was designed for ran a
pulley to pulley ratio of something like three to four to one with 5000 +
engine RPM survival expected by the designer.
A five inch + pulley seems to me to be well into overkill as far as rev
limiting is concerned. I would not be surprised to see low power output at
idle.
An awful lot of racers run these units at much higher RPM. than you will
ever reach with your engine RPM limited at something under 3000 RPM.
Happy building,
Jim in Kelowna - RV6-A for sale {[:-(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Clayton" <harvey4(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator questions
>
>
>
> When I bought a Honda auto alternator for my Cozy many moons ago, it's
> spec said it puts out 70 amps at 10,000 revs.
> I don't need anything like 70 amps (nor the associated heat) and I didn't
> like the idea of anything turning at 10,000 revs under my cowling, so I
> turned up a larger pulley to step down the alternator speed and it's
> output.
>
> I think I went too far. The original pulley was about 2" diameter and used
> a flat belt. My new pulley is about 5 1/2" diameter with a machined "V"
> belt groove to match the Lycoming flywheel. My voltmeter barely indicates
> 12v at 2000 engine revs (and nothing like the 13.6 volts I think it should
> be) and my ammeter is showing a slight discharge when the engine is
> running, suggesting the ammeter isn't charging the battery. Up till now, I
> put the readings down to poor gauge quality.
>
> So my questions are;
> 1) Would I see a "low" voltage reading if the alternator wasn't turning
> fast enough?
> 2) Is there a low-end threshold rpm at which the alternator must run to
> sustain battery charge? What happens on a car at idle RPM?
> 3) Was my logic flawed about stepping down the alternator RPM?
>
> Thanks for comments.
> Neil
>
>
> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (4.0.0.26 - 10.100.044).
> http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (4.0.0.26 - 10.100.044).
http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Fellows" <walter.fellows(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Frank Feldman] |
Can we keep this on topic?
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:46 PM, RScott wrote:
>
> A man walks into the street and manages to get a taxi just going by.
> He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says,
> "Perfect timing. You're just like Frank"
>
> Passenger: "Who?"
> Cabbie: "Frank Feldman. He's a guy who did everything right all the time.
>
> Like my coming along when you needed a cab, things happened like that
> to Frank Feldman every single time."
> Passenger: "There are always a few clouds over everybody."
> Cabbie: "Not Frank Feldman. He was a terrific athlete. He could have
> won the Grand-Slam at tennis. He could golf with the pros. He sang like
> an opera baritone and danced like a Broadway star and you should have heard
>
> him play the piano. He was an amazing guy."
>
> Passenger: Sounds like he was something really special.
> Cabbie: "There's more... He had a memory like a computer.
> Could remember everybody's birthday.
> He knew all about wine, which foods to order and which
>
> fork to eat them with. He could fix anything. Not like me.
> I change a fuse, and the whole street blacks out.
> But Frank Feldman, he could do everything right."
>
> Passenger. "Wow, some guy then."
> Cabbie: "He always knew the quickest way to go in traffic and avoid
> traffic jams. Not like me, I always seem to get stuck in them.
> But Frank, he never made a mistake,
> and he really knew how to treat a woman and make her feel good.
>
> He would never answer her back even if she was in the wrong;
> and his clothing was always immaculate, shoes highly polished too --
> he was the perfect man!
> He never made a mistake.
> No one could ever measure up to Frank Feldman."
>
> Passenger: "An amazing fellow. How did you meet him?"
> Cabbie: "Well, I never actually met Frank.
> I just married his f*cking widow."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> |
| Subject: | metal compatibility |
What issues would one face with the compatibility of brass and stainless
steel. Brass fittings, bolts and such through the firewall.
Thanks
Jonsey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | metal compatibility |
None, they are both inert enough not to cause problems from corrosion.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: metal compatibility
What issues would one face with the compatibility of brass and stainless st
eel. Brass fittings, bolts and such through the firewall.
Thanks
Jonsey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: metal compatibility |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Inert or not (which has nothing to do with galvanic activity) brass and stainless
steel a pretty far apart on the chart of galvanic activity.? In the presence
of moisture, they will corrode.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: metal compatibility
None, they are both inert enough not to cause problems from
corrosion.
?
Frank
From:
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Jones
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:07 PM
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: metal
compatibility
What issues would one face with the compatibility
of brass and stainless steel. Brass fittings, bolts and such through the
firewall.
?
Thanks
Jonsey
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: metal compatibility |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> What issues would one face with the compatibility of brass and stainless steel.
Brass fittings, bolts and such through the firewall.
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/corrosion/galvanic.htm
The info is there to find.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Head Set Jack shoring out |
Bob,
I spoke to the electric man at our airport about this issue. He claims that
the jacks have a 28v tip to accommodate BOSE head sets in the plane. It
seems that the shorting occurs when the jack in plugged in which shorts out
the audio panel's modulation side of panel. Does this make any sense?
Marty
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Head Set Jack shoring out
>
>Bob,
>
>I received this message from a FBO where I rent planes. Any idea why
>this is even possible?
>
>"When flying Diamond aircraft at Wings of Eagles, headsets MUST be
>plugged in BEFORE turning the radios on. If this procedure is not
>followed, it could result in the headset jack shorting out, which
>renders the jack inoperative & obviously not being able to communicate
>effectively. Your adherence to this practice will result in a more
>pleasant flight experience and less aircraft down time due to
>maintenance. Thank you in advance for your cooperation"
I am unaware of the physics that might justify such a protocol.
It is true that for stereo headphones and depending on the
design of the jack, right and left channels can be momentarily
shorted together but I'm betting these are not stereo headset
installations . . . and even so, momentary shorts between channels
shouldn't be big deal.
I've never encountered a microphone or headset installation
where engaging or disengaging the connector while the radios
are ON presents any kind of risk to the equipment. It would
be interesting to talk to the technicians who are making repairs
alleged to have been precipitated by ungraceful mating of
headset connectors.
Bob. . .
M
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing-to-Fuselage electrical connections |
| From: | "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com> |
Here's a link with pictures and part numbers for AMP CPC connectors, which work
well for power (not coax) wires.
http://www.verticalpower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9953#209953
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Interpreting battery test results |
I just got hold of a new Oddessey PC310 battery, to use as an endurance
backup. I need to product 12 amps for something like 30-45 minutes. It is
rated at 8Ah and here is the product information:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc310.htm
Wanting to see what it really had in it, I hooked up the West Mountain
tester. In the test parameters, I called it and 8Ah battery and tried to
have it run at 12 amps. However, the program didn't like that, so I stepped
the current draw down to 7 amps. I set the cutoff voltage at 9 volts.
I was surprised the test lasted only 24 minutes, but even more surprised
that the resultant Tested Capacity was only 2.82 Ah.
You can see the test results here:
http://www.mistakeproofing.net/transfer/PC310_10-22-08.pdf
So, why the difference? Shouldn't the Tested Capacity be near 8Ah? Am I
misinterpreting the test results? Is there something wrong with this
brand-new battery? Was my test set-up flawed?
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interpreting battery test results |
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/TBM" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
Well...sorta.
You performed a valid test and got roughly the results we'd expect. The
battery you tested is likely rated for 8-ah at a current that would
discharge it in about 20-hours. Closer to 400mA - not 12 amps.
neal
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Thu 10/23/2008 6:58 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Interpreting battery test results
September 28, 2008 - October 23, 2008
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ie