AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jc
October 21, 2009 - November 20, 2009
| Subject: | Re: Bus bar wiring |
At 09:49 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am looking for opinions on my method for connecting wires to the
>buses. The top two rows in the photo are my main buss
>breakers. The big nut at the top is the 6 awg wire from the battery
>relay, it is just the lug now. The short wire labeled P13 is how I
>connect the top bus bar to the middle bar. This wire is only 8 awg,
>I am not sure this is OK since the main feed is a 6 awg wire. I am
>using 6 awg based Aeroelectric DWG, but I am guessing I could get
>away with 8 awg, it is only about 3 feet from the contactor to the
>bus. I will run wire from the 8 awg wire where you see it clamped,
>to the diode on the black heat sink then to the bottom bus bar which
>is my essential bus.
8AWG is fine for this task. But I want to remind
my readers that ALL wire sizes cited on AEC
drawings should be evaluated for your particular
load analysis tempered by practical decisions.
What you've got will be fine but the wire sizes,
while illustrated in the ARCHITCTURE drawings may
not be the optimum or practical size.
>Please give me feedback and pointers, I want to know if I am on the
>right track. This panel will sit by my right leg along the sloped
>console of the RV-8A. I used a castle nut because for a temporary
>install it is easier to work with. I am using a AN4 bolt because
>that is the smallest size lug I could find for the 6 awg wire.
McMaster-Carr has small quantities of your
odd size terminal needs. A 6AWG terminal for
#10 stud is catalog number 7113K365.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bus bar wiring |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
Bob,
Thank you for the information. When you say 8 AWG is fine I assume you mean the
short jumper to the middle bus. I was planning 6 AWG as the main power feed
to the bus since I will have a 60 amp alternator. I was thinking I could get
by with 8 AWG since my typical load from my load analysis is only 20-25 amps
and only gets to 47 amps in a night IFR situation.
My harness kit from Van's came with 8AWG for the supply to the bus but I was not
sure I should use it since my plane has more electrical gadgets than the Van's
basic electrical plan contains.
Is my logic flawed going up to 6 AWG for my application, should I just use the
8 AWG since I should be under the 57 amp max for that size wire?
Cheers
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268836#268836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) |
> Deer are ruthless in their attacks. I personally know 5 people who were
> attacked by deer using a flanking attack method. In all these cases the
> deer waited until the front of the vehicle had passed and then rammed
> into the side of the vehicle. An attack that is impossible to counter.
>
> I will be using a pasture in front of my house eventually, and deer are
> my biggest fear. They are impossible to predict.
>
> Raymond Julian
Ray,
It is apparent... We all need to eat more venison!
Roger
Upton, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Angier M.Ames" <N4ZQ(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RST-523 Marker Beacon Receiver Kit |
If anyone in the group has recently constructed this receiver, I've
got a few questions.
Please contact me off list.
Thanks,
Angier Ames
N4ZQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FLIR EVS (was XeVision HIDs) |
Amen to that. They are like giant rats down here in NJ.
Roger wrote:
>
>
>
>> Deer are ruthless in their attacks. I personally know 5 people who
>> were attacked by deer using a flanking attack method. In all these
>> cases the deer waited until the front of the vehicle had passed and
>> then rammed into the side of the vehicle. An attack that is
>> impossible to counter.
>>
>> I will be using a pasture in front of my house eventually, and deer
>> are my biggest fear. They are impossible to predict.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>
> Ray,
>
> It is apparent... We all need to eat more venison!
>
> Roger
> Upton, MA
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
One other item, the tach gen turns at half of the engine rpm. So, the signal from
the tach gen would need to be fully rectified to make this work (for me to
get enough pulses per revolution as 1 ppr is the lowest recognized by the EFIS
system).
If the tach gen signal is 20 VRMS as you mentioned, is there a simple rectifier
circuit you'd recommend?
This should finish the work on this tach issue.
Thanks Bob,
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268882#268882
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
You mentioned Dacron lacing as a good alternative to high temp wire ties in the
engine compartment. Is there a good place to get the material and where would
I find a tutorial on how to lace?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268883#268883
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Data output from a Garmin 496 |
My Garmin 496 and Electronics International Fuel Flow Gauge (FP5L)
aren't on speaking terms! I'd like to talk to anyone who has
successfully made these two work together.
My Garmin is driving my TruTrac autopilot okay. The output line from the
Garmin is split off to both instruments. I've checked the conductivity
of the wiring from plug to plug and it's good.
I would really like to hear from anyone using these same three
instruments but if you just have the 496 talking to the FP5L that would
help too.
Thanks,
Steve Hamer
RV-6 Flying
Apple Valley, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
Craig -
Stein carries lacing:
http://www.steinair.com/accessories.htm
Sixth item down the page.
And here's a link to Bob's shop notes on tying bundles:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
neal
=============
Bob:
You mentioned Dacron lacing as a good alternative to high temp wire ties in
the engine compartment. Is there a good place to get the material and where
would I find a tutorial on how to lace?
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone have
any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:33 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>You mentioned Dacron lacing as a good alternative to high temp wire
>ties in the engine compartment. Is there a good place to get the
>material and where would I find a tutorial on how to lace?
I don't recommend a "running lace" for
aircraft wiring. Spot ties used on the same
frequency as you might use tie-wraps is
preferred. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
Aircraft Spruce, Steinair, and many electronic supply
houses stock lacing tape. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Misc/Lacing_Tape/
My favorite is the Type II, Size 3, Finish B but
they're all suited to your task.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring |
At 11:32 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>One other item, the tach gen turns at half of the engine rpm. So,
>the signal from the tach gen would need to be fully rectified to
>make this work (for me to get enough pulses per revolution as 1 ppr
>is the lowest recognized by the EFIS system).
>
>If the tach gen signal is 20 VRMS as you mentioned, is there a
>simple rectifier circuit you'd recommend?
>
>This should finish the work on this tach issue.
I have no idea what your particular tach generator's
operating specs are. My offering was based on the
3-phase, permanent magnet tach-generators that I
was manufacturing/replacing 30 years ago.
Folks often refer to their tach transducer as a
"tach generator" when in fact, it may be any
technology that converts shaft rotations to some
periodic signal. The exact nature of that signal
is driven by requirement for the companion instrument.
The last tach transducer project I worked was
for the Bonanza 2" instrument upgrade program
where the instrument expected 8 pulses per rev
at 12v. We mounted 8 magnets on a disk and spun
them next to a hall sensor. But the device you're
working with can be an probably is something
entirely different.
Do you have part numbers and a wiring diagram
for the orignal system associated with your
"tach generator"?\
Assuming that it IS an sine-wave, AC device,
then you don't want to rectify it, you'll probably
want to 'square' the signal with a simple over-driven
amplifier. Didn't I suggest a circuit for this?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
My application is a russian radial engine and I am trying to use the tach input
of an EFIS system in the aircraft. The EFIS expects a nice square wave from
a Hall Effect sensor. However, I cannot mount a Hall effect sensor on the Russian
mags as there is no port to do so and even if there were, the threads would
be metric pitch.
The tach gen is a three phase AC generator. The connector on the tach gen is three
pins so it is likely Y-wound and uses the case as neutral. According to
specs on the engine, the tach gen turns at half of the engine rpm. What I see
is the following:
1) I can use a single phase of the tach gen as you proposed but I will then only
get one-half pulse per revolution of the engine since the gen turns at half
the engine rpm. I was thinking of doing full wave rectification of the signal
to get back to one pulse per revolution.
2) I could condition the p-lead signal and tell the EFIS that there are 4.5 pulses
per revolution. However, I don't know how to condition the signal properly.
This method would provide no engine RPM during a mag check but I'd be OK with
that.
We are putting a scope on one phase of the tach gen output and the p-leads tomorrow.
I'll take a picture of the scope as this will help.
Thanks,
Craig
PS - bought your book and it is excellent. Thanks for that and all your help to
us with experimental aircraft!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268923#268923
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
Bill,
did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format with
the same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are
crossed? You have 3 wires between the two right?
Just as a starter
br Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone
> have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
>
>
>
> Bill B
>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 09:44 AM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>My application is a russian radial engine and I am trying to use the
>tach input of an EFIS system in the aircraft. The EFIS expects a
>nice square wave from a Hall Effect sensor. However, I cannot mount
>a Hall effect sensor on the Russian mags as there is no port to do
>so and even if there were, the threads would be metric pitch.
>
>The tach gen is a three phase AC generator. The connector on the
>tach gen is three pins so it is likely Y-wound and uses the case as
>neutral. According to specs on the engine, the tach gen turns at
>half of the engine rpm. What I see is the following:
>
>1) I can use a single phase of the tach gen as you proposed but I
>will then only get one-half pulse per revolution of the engine since
>the gen turns at half the engine rpm. I was thinking of doing full
>wave rectification of the signal to get back to one pulse per revolution.
This may not be true. It depends on how many poles are in
the rotor magnet and stator windings. I think the machines
we were building had 4 poles.
>2) I could condition the p-lead signal and tell the EFIS that there
>are 4.5 pulses per revolution. However, I don't know how to
>condition the signal properly. This method would provide no engine
>RPM during a mag check but I'd be OK with that.
>
>We are putting a scope on one phase of the tach gen output and the
>p-leads tomorrow. I'll take a picture of the scope as this will help.
Okay. That's a good start. Also check continuity
between any one signal lead and case . . . I suspect
you'll find that there is no "neutral" connection.
If you do a full-wave rectification of the 3-phase
output, you will indeed get a ripple signature that
is 3x the frequency of a single phase . . . but it
drops to 5% pk-pk of average. Now you'll need to process
that small signal that becomes even smaller at idle and
perhaps run-up rpms.
How hard is it to get your hands on another
tach generator . . . it doesn't need to be
compatible with your tach, only fit the engine.
I can probably show you how to build a many-pulses
hall (or perhaps a bunches of pulses electro-
magnetic) transducer into the old tach generator
case.
>PS - bought your book and it is excellent. Thanks for that and all
>your help to us with experimental aircraft!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased that you
find the work useful!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
I think I know where you are going with the tach gen. We could tap the side of
the case and put a hall effect on it to "watch" the rotor magnets go by. I suspect
the stator windings would need to be removed. Am I on track?
To answer your question, yes, I can get another tach gen for the engine with no
problems. About $150 for a new one...a little less for a used one. The Hall
Effect can be obtained fro Aircraft Spruce.
I'll post pictures of the o-scope and also look at the terminal to case resistance
to see if there is any connection.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268972#268972
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what the
KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both Garmin and
Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping that
someone on the list had accomplished that..
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
KMD150
-->
Bill,
did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format with the
same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are crossed?
You have 3 wires between the two right?
Just as a starter
br Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone
> have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
>
>
>
> Bill B
>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 03:56 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>I think I know where you are going with the tach gen. We could tap
>the side of the case and put a hall effect on it to "watch" the
>rotor magnets go by. I suspect the stator windings would need to be
>removed. Am I on track?
Close. The first time I prototyped a hall-effect
tach transducer, I salvaged the whole front end bell
and shaft. Just enough hardware to grab the engine.
Some time on the lathe produced a new, short rear
end bell and ECB mount. Another lathe-cut part had
12 little rod-magnets pressed into it and positioned
to fly past the hall device on the ECB.
>To answer your question, yes, I can get another tach gen for the
>engine with no problems. About $150 for a new one...a little less
>for a used one. The Hall Effect can be obtained fro Aircraft Spruce.
The hall device I'm considering is a little surface
mounted device.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Intersting as the avionics shop on my field said using wax covered lacing cord
was not appropriate under the cowling. Comments?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268985#268985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 06:29 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Intersting as the avionics shop on my field said using wax covered
>lacing cord was not appropriate under the cowling. Comments?
The clove hitch methodology (I) leaves the knot
in tension and would probably be more secure
if not waxed. I've not had any knots come loose
when you tie 'em up like (II) . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
The knot serves only to provide a "lump" that
stops the free ends from slipping though the noose-
loop, there's little or no tension on the final
knot.
Actually, I think the waxed cord gets you a tighter
knot because the string slides over itself easier
during the tightening process. But all the
listed tapes are better than nylon-tie wraps.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
> If you do a full-wave rectification of the 3-phase
> output, you will indeed get a ripple signature that
> is 3x the frequency of a single phase . . . but it
> drops to 5% pk-pk of average. Now you'll need to process
> that small signal that becomes even smaller at idle and
> perhaps run-up rpms.
Bob, I was thinking of only rectifying one phase not all three. My thought was
that the tach gen is rotating at half engine speed, I'd get another "peak" in
the signal from one phase and essentially double the frequency. Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268999#268999
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
>
>Bob, I was thinking of only rectifying one phase not all three. My
>thought was that the tach gen is rotating at half engine speed, I'd
>get another "peak" in the signal from one phase and essentially
>double the frequency.
Hmmmm . . . yeah, that would work.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
Interesting according to the specs from the KMD 150 it reads:
External GPS, requires ARNAV R-30, BendixKing RS232 or RS422 (9600
baud), NMEA0183 (4800 or 9600
baud) or Northstar Proprietary data (1200 baud); WX-500 Stormscope sensor
that sounds not like Aviation Format will work!
Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what the
> KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both Garmin and
> Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
>
> So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping that
> someone on the list had accomplished that..
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
> Schneider
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
> KMD150
>
> -->
>
> Bill,
>
> did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
> correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format with the
> same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are crossed?
> You have 3 wires between the two right?
>
> Just as a starter
>
> br Werner
>
> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
>> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does anyone
>> have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one another?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill B
>>
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
Hello Bill,
just found on the 430 installation instruction:
4.6.1.1 you can set GPS COM Out1 port on data format 2 which is the
northstar format
Don't forget to check baudrate!
Let me know if you need instructions how to set it.
br Werner
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> Interesting according to the specs from the KMD 150 it reads:
>
>
>
>
> External GPS, requires ARNAV R-30, BendixKing RS232 or RS422 (9600
> baud), NMEA0183 (4800 or 9600
> baud) or Northstar Proprietary data (1200 baud); WX-500 Stormscope sensor
>
> that sounds not like Aviation Format will work!
>
> Werner
>
> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>
>>
>> The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what
>> the
>> KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both Garmin and
>> Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
>>
>> So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping that
>> someone on the list had accomplished that..
>>
>> Bill B
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Werner
>> Schneider
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
>> KMD150
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with the
>> correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format
>> with the
>> same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units are
>> crossed?
>> You have 3 wires between the two right?
>>
>> Just as a starter
>>
>> br Werner
>>
>> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>
>>> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does
>>> anyone have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one
>>> another?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill B
>>>
>>> * *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need help with desicsion |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way to go
with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max continuous
load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for some reason this will
exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am ANL.
Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6? I do
have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the weight, the only
thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire without really thinking
this through. I want to do this the best way possible, not just what will work.
So since materials are not the issue which way would you guys and gals go.
Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
Cheers
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269048#269048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
Werner,
That may be it, but I will have to think through it because I have other
things connected to the 430. Dynon 10A, Trutrack Digitrack II VSGV, etc.
they require Aviation and different speeds.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
KMD150
-->
Hello Bill,
just found on the 430 installation instruction:
4.6.1.1 you can set GPS COM Out1 port on data format 2 which is the
northstar format
Don't forget to check baudrate!
Let me know if you need instructions how to set it.
br Werner
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>
> Interesting according to the specs from the KMD 150 it reads:
>
> oadServlet?FileName=/static/brochures/pdf/kmd150.pdf>
>
>
> External GPS, requires ARNAV R-30, BendixKing RS232 or RS422 (9600
> baud), NMEA0183 (4800 or 9600
> baud) or Northstar Proprietary data (1200 baud); WX-500 Stormscope
> sensor
>
> that sounds not like Aviation Format will work!
>
> Werner
>
> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>
>>
>> The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what
>> the KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both
>> Garmin and Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
>>
>> So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping
>> that someone on the list had accomplished that..
>>
>> Bill B
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Werner Schneider
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W
>> to KMD150
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with
>> the correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format
>> with the same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units
>> are crossed?
>> You have 3 wires between the two right?
>>
>> Just as a starter
>>
>> br Werner
>>
>> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>
>>> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does
>>> anyone have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one
>>> another?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill B
>>>
>>> * *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
At 06:25 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which
>way to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57
>amps, my max continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the
>60 amp load for some reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will
>also have a 60 am ANL.
>
>Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to
>#6? I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just
>the weight, the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the
>#6 wire without really thinking this through. I want to do this the
>best way possible, not just what will work. So since materials are
>not the issue which way would you guys and gals go.
>
>Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
>
>Cheers
I'll wade into this only to suggest rather than just using the
somewhat generic wire capacity tables, dig into Chapter 11 of
AC43-13-1B and work it out with actual numbers. What will the IR
(voltage) drop be for your proposed run length based on the load,
resistance, temperature, altitude, bundling and such of your chosen
cable. Is your calculated voltage drop acceptable?
AC43-13 has a suggestion:
b. Voltage Drop in Wires. The voltage drop in the main power wires
from the generation source or the battery to the bus should not
exceed 2 percent of the regulated voltage when the generator is
carrying rated current or the battery is being discharged at the
5-minute rate. The tabulation shown in table 11-6 defines the maximum
acceptable voltage drop in the load circuits between the bus and the
utilization equipment ground.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
Ron,
Good point, I have done the voltage drop with the table in AC43 but have not done
the further study of altitude and such. I will work though it, as far as voltage
drop with the amps and the cable length #8 is the answer. Thank you for
pointing this out.
Mike
[quote="rjquillin"]At 06:25 10/23/2009, you wrote:
> I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way to go
with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max continuous
load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for some reason this
will exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am ANL.
>
> Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6? I
do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the weight, the only
thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire without really thinking
this through. I want to do this the best way possible, not just what will
work. So since materials are not the issue which way would you guys and gals
go.
>
> Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
>
> Cheers
I'll wade into this only to suggest rather than just using the somewhat generic
wire capacity tables, dig into Chapter 11 of AC43-13-1B and work it out with
actual numbers. What will the IR (voltage) drop be for your proposed run length
based on the load, resistance, temperature, altitude, bundling and such of
your chosen cable. Is your calculated voltage drop acceptable?
AC43-13 has a suggestion:
b. Voltage Drop in Wires. The voltage drop in the main power wires from the generation
source or the battery to the bus should not exceed 2 percent of the regulated
voltage when the generator is carrying rated current or the battery is
being discharged at the 5-minute rate. The tabulation shown in table 11-6 defines
the maximum acceptable voltage drop in the load circuits between the bus
and the utilization equipment ground.
Ron Q.
> [b]
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269073#269073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need help with desicsion |
Mike,
I guess the question is are you feeling lucky or conservative? No, the
wire won't melt down if you get to a 58 amp draw. Tefzel will run hot a
long time before it deteriorates and dissolves the connector and
destroys all your components. If you want to be safe and are not worried
about the few extra ounces, use the #6.
If you want to be a nerd you can buy a micro processor, program the
imbedded code and attach it to a thermocouple sensor on the wire, thus
monitor the temperature for a while. Who's got that much time? We gotta
go fly.
If the #8 suits your load pattern and length calculations, then use it.
I think a common misconception is that if you have a 60 amp alternator,
that the alternator is constantly trying to burn up your 10 amp load
with 60 amps of pressure. The alternator works on demand, so it won't
produce more than you need. Think of it as a throttle. If you demand
more, you'll get more. You could put a 150 amp alternator on there and
run a #8 wire to it. Just depends on demand and the design of your
system.
Remember, it's the voltage that kills you not the amperage. Remove the
VARs and you've got nothing.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rvg8tor
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:26 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way
to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max
continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for
some reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am
ANL.
Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6?
I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the
weight, the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire
without really thinking this through. I want to do this the best way
possible, not just what will work. So since materials are not the issue
which way would you guys and gals go.
Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
Cheers
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269048#269048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen |
usage
At 08:59 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob, I was thinking of only rectifying one phase not all three. My
>>thought was that the tach gen is rotating at half engine speed, I'd
>>get another "peak" in the signal from one phase and essentially
>>double the frequency.
>
> Hmmmm . . . yeah, that would work.
On further reflection, there's a simple
collection of components that can be used
to give you a 4x increase in frequency . . .
assuming that your tach input is watching
for EDGES of transition and doesn't care
about symmetry.
Your comparator looks at full-wave
rectified output to give you a 2x
square wave. You then add an exclusive-
or gate and a resistor-capacitor to
convert each edge of the 2x into 4
narrow pulses effectively doubling the
total number of edges a second time.
Let's see what your 'scope studies
tell us.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to KMD150 |
You might try what format you can select on the other two com's maybe
they can still do Aviation?
You can easily try to hook up a PC with a terminal program (don't use
the windows one, but e.g. terraterm) and see what you get out there, so
you can choose on com 1 the northstar?
Further on the Users Guide Page 44:
Important Note for Garmin GPS Users
Although Garmin products output the Bendix/King equivalent ARNAV R-
30 (RS232) data sentence format, when put into OBS Mode some
Garmin GPS units stop sending flight plan data. In these circumstances
your KMD 150 will display only the GPS position and track since it is not
receiving flight plan data.
In the case of DME arcs, turns and holds, some Garmin GPS units send
the flight plan information as if there was no arc or curved flight path.
Therefore the KMD 150 has no option but to connect the beginning and
end waypoints of the arc or curve with a straight line. Under these
circumstances
the line on the KMD 150 MUST BE IGNORED.
NMEA AND NORTHSTAR DATA
If the host GPS is outputting NMEA data or Northstar M3 binary data, no
flight plan information will be displayed on the KMD 150. The information
appearing on the KMD 150 will be limited to present position, track and
ground speed.
Good luck
Werner
Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> Werner,
> That may be it, but I will have to think through it because I have other
> things connected to the 430. Dynon 10A, Trutrack Digitrack II VSGV, etc.
> they require Aviation and different speeds.
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
> Schneider
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:31 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W to
> KMD150
>
> -->
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> just found on the 430 installation instruction:
>
> 4.6.1.1 you can set GPS COM Out1 port on data format 2 which is the
> northstar format
>
> Don't forget to check baudrate!
>
> Let me know if you need instructions how to set it.
>
> br Werner
>
> Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Interesting according to the specs from the KMD 150 it reads:
>>
>> > oadServlet?FileName=/static/brochures/pdf/kmd150.pdf>
>>
>>
>> External GPS, requires ARNAV R-30, BendixKing RS232 or RS422 (9600
>> baud), NMEA0183 (4800 or 9600
>> baud) or Northstar Proprietary data (1200 baud); WX-500 Stormscope
>> sensor
>>
>> that sounds not like Aviation Format will work!
>>
>> Werner
>>
>> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The GNS430W only outputs "aviation". This is not on the list of what
>>> the KMD150 says it will read, however, I have been told by both
>>> Garmin and Honeywell tech support that the KMD will read it.
>>>
>>> So far, I have not been able to tell my KMD... :>) I was hoping
>>> that someone on the list had accomplished that..
>>>
>>> Bill B
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Werner Schneider
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Serial data output from a Garmin 430W
>>> to KMD150
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> did you configure the 430 that it does output NMEA0183 format with
>>> the correct baudrate and also, that the KMD does look for that format
>>> with the same baudrate and that receive and transmit of the two units
>>> are crossed?
>>> You have 3 wires between the two right?
>>>
>>> Just as a starter
>>>
>>> br Werner
>>>
>>> Bill Bradburry wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My KMD150 does not see the GPS output from the GNS430W. Does
>>>> anyone have any input on how to convince these two to talk to one
>>>> another?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill B
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
At 08:25 AM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which
>way to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57
>amps, my max continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the
>60 amp load for some reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will
>also have a 60 am ANL.
>
>Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to
>#6? I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just
>the weight, the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the
>#6 wire without really thinking this through. I want to do this the
>best way possible, not just what will work. So since materials are
>not the issue which way would you guys and gals go.
>
>Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
Assuming that you're alternator b-lead is 4' long,
a 6AWG at 4 mOhms/Ft will drop 60 x .004 x 4 = .96
volts at full load. If your alternator is an externally
regulated device then the regulator senses BUS voltage
instead of B-terminal voltage and it will compensate
for the voltage drop. However, if internally regulated,
the bus will run about 1.0 volts low during full load
operations. In practice, you'd never be able to realize
that loading because loads on the alternator are a
combination of system requirements + battery recharge
currents. For a 14.2v setpoint, a 13.2v bus wouldn't
significantly stimulate the battery to soak up the
joules it would like to have if the bus were actually
higher.
If your alternator is externally regulated, then
voltage drops in the b-lead only limit your minimum
speed for full alternator output . . . which at
take-off or cruise settings is not a limiting
factor.
The trends are moving toward internally
regulated (b-lead sense) and small b-lead feeders
COMBINED with all other wires between the alternator
and battery can stack up voltage drops that will
impact battery recharge performance. This is why
the Z-figures generally show 4AWG or larger for
b-lead feeders . . . and all other fat-wires.
Having said that, unless your battery is seriously
discharged, these simple-ideas in physics have
little perceivable effect on your operations.
Going to the wire tables is not particularly
useful for fat-wire calculations since their
recommendations are based on temperature rises
that generally fall WELL BELOW that which the
wire will tolerate in your airplane. The hard-
hat consideration is for voltage drop under the
worst case conditions. There are additional
voltage drops to be considered for the full-
up system.
Know that automobiles tend to use fat-wires that
are a lot smaller than the aviation community
would find acceptable for meeting design goals.
At the same time, except for a severely discharge
battery, automobiles almost never encounter conditions
that exploit the full capability of the
alternator. I've often suggested that if it
were my airplane and the batteries were up front,
I'd craft all the fat-wire paths with 4AWG welding
cable for reasons that are not readily revealed by
praying over the wire table . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob and all,
Some time ago you published a page on connecting a regular (big) BNC
connector to a skinny coax cable (RG 174 ?).
To date I've been unable to retrieve the document.
Could you point me in the right direction ?
Thanks,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC and RG 174 |
At 05:34 AM 10/24/2009, you wrote:
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Bob and all,
>
>Some time ago you published a page on connecting a regular (big) BNC
>connector to a skinny coax cable (RG 174 ?).
>To date I've been unable to retrieve the document.
>Could you point me in the right direction ?
I vaguely remember that . . . but I can't put
my hands on the imagery in my picture files.
There are several approaches but the general
idea is to get the electrical connections made
up by the usual crimp/solder techniques and
the "pot" the small coax body into the too-large
connector with epoxy or super-glue.
I'd prepare the end of the RG-174 like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
Cut the center conductor back to leave about
1'4" insulation, strip end and crimp on
the center pin. You may want to double-back
the strands of 174 before inserting them into
the pin to make sure you got plenty of copper
in the wire-grip.
Fold the shield-tail back as you push the
pin into place in the connector body.
Wrap the shield-tail over the end
of the shield grip so you can slide
the ferrule over it and crimp. Trim
of excess shield tail. Now you can
fill the cavity around the cable
with epoxy. A slow-set variety is
probably called for so that it says
"runny" long enough to penetrate as
far as possible into the open voids
around the cable.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Invitation! Lower Slobovia Garden Club's Pumpkin Drop, |
2009
You're cordially invited to the "Lower Slobovia Garden Club" 3rd annual
Pumpkin Drop, starting at 11:00 AM on Saturday, November 7, 2009. Lunch
will be served at noon, and pumpkin drop demos begin around 2:00 PM.
Contact info for driving directions is on the attached flyer; nav info is at
http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71
Y'all come!
Charlie & Tupper, for the Lower Slobovia Garden Club members
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
I believe you slipped a zero. 6 awg is 0.4 mOhms per foot so the voltage
drop on 4 feet is just under 0.1 volts.
An easy rule of thumb to remember is 10 awg wire is 1 milliohm per 1 foot,
every three wire sizes doubles the resistance. (so 7 awg would be about 2
milliohms per foot.)
-Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
>
>
> At 08:25 AM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way
>>to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max
>>continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for some
>>reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am ANL.
>>
>>Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6?
>>I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the weight,
>>the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire without
>>really thinking this through. I want to do this the best way possible,
>>not just what will work. So since materials are not the issue which way
>>would you guys and gals go.
>>
>>Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
>
> Assuming that you're alternator b-lead is 4' long,
> a 6AWG at 4 mOhms/Ft will drop 60 x .004 x 4 = .96
> volts at full load. If your alternator is an externally
> regulated device then the regulator senses BUS voltage
> instead of B-terminal voltage and it will compensate
> for the voltage drop. However, if internally regulated,
> the bus will run about 1.0 volts low during full load
> operations. In practice, you'd never be able to realize
> that loading because loads on the alternator are a
> combination of system requirements + battery recharge
> currents. For a 14.2v setpoint, a 13.2v bus wouldn't
> significantly stimulate the battery to soak up the
> joules it would like to have if the bus were actually
> higher.
>
> If your alternator is externally regulated, then
> voltage drops in the b-lead only limit your minimum
> speed for full alternator output . . . which at
> take-off or cruise settings is not a limiting
> factor.
>
> The trends are moving toward internally
> regulated (b-lead sense) and small b-lead feeders
> COMBINED with all other wires between the alternator
> and battery can stack up voltage drops that will
> impact battery recharge performance. This is why
> the Z-figures generally show 4AWG or larger for
> b-lead feeders . . . and all other fat-wires.
>
> Having said that, unless your battery is seriously
> discharged, these simple-ideas in physics have
> little perceivable effect on your operations.
> Going to the wire tables is not particularly
> useful for fat-wire calculations since their
> recommendations are based on temperature rises
> that generally fall WELL BELOW that which the
> wire will tolerate in your airplane. The hard-
> hat consideration is for voltage drop under the
> worst case conditions. There are additional
> voltage drops to be considered for the full-
> up system.
>
> Know that automobiles tend to use fat-wires that
> are a lot smaller than the aviation community
> would find acceptable for meeting design goals.
> At the same time, except for a severely discharge
> battery, automobiles almost never encounter conditions
> that exploit the full capability of the
> alternator. I've often suggested that if it
> were my airplane and the batteries were up front,
> I'd craft all the fat-wire paths with 4AWG welding
> cable for reasons that are not readily revealed by
> praying over the wire table . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Need help with desicsion |
Bob N.,
I believe you slipped in the wrong direction. #7 AWG is larger than #10 AWG
therefore the resistance should be less.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
I believe you slipped a zero. 6 awg is 0.4 mOhms per foot so the voltage
drop on 4 feet is just under 0.1 volts.
An easy rule of thumb to remember is 10 awg wire is 1 milliohm per 1 foot,
every three wire sizes doubles the resistance. (so 7 awg would be about 2
milliohms per foot.)
-Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
>
>
> At 08:25 AM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way
>>to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max
>>continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for some
>>reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am ANL.
>>
>>Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6?
>>I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the weight,
>>the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire without
>>really thinking this through. I want to do this the best way possible,
>>not just what will work. So since materials are not the issue which way
>>would you guys and gals go.
>>
>>Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
>
> Assuming that you're alternator b-lead is 4' long,
> a 6AWG at 4 mOhms/Ft will drop 60 x .004 x 4 = .96
> volts at full load. If your alternator is an externally
> regulated device then the regulator senses BUS voltage
> instead of B-terminal voltage and it will compensate
> for the voltage drop. However, if internally regulated,
> the bus will run about 1.0 volts low during full load
> operations. In practice, you'd never be able to realize
> that loading because loads on the alternator are a
> combination of system requirements + battery recharge
> currents. For a 14.2v setpoint, a 13.2v bus wouldn't
> significantly stimulate the battery to soak up the
> joules it would like to have if the bus were actually
> higher.
>
> If your alternator is externally regulated, then
> voltage drops in the b-lead only limit your minimum
> speed for full alternator output . . . which at
> take-off or cruise settings is not a limiting
> factor.
>
> The trends are moving toward internally
> regulated (b-lead sense) and small b-lead feeders
> COMBINED with all other wires between the alternator
> and battery can stack up voltage drops that will
> impact battery recharge performance. This is why
> the Z-figures generally show 4AWG or larger for
> b-lead feeders . . . and all other fat-wires.
>
> Having said that, unless your battery is seriously
> discharged, these simple-ideas in physics have
> little perceivable effect on your operations.
> Going to the wire tables is not particularly
> useful for fat-wire calculations since their
> recommendations are based on temperature rises
> that generally fall WELL BELOW that which the
> wire will tolerate in your airplane. The hard-
> hat consideration is for voltage drop under the
> worst case conditions. There are additional
> voltage drops to be considered for the full-
> up system.
>
> Know that automobiles tend to use fat-wires that
> are a lot smaller than the aviation community
> would find acceptable for meeting design goals.
> At the same time, except for a severely discharge
> battery, automobiles almost never encounter conditions
> that exploit the full capability of the
> alternator. I've often suggested that if it
> were my airplane and the batteries were up front,
> I'd craft all the fat-wire paths with 4AWG welding
> cable for reasons that are not readily revealed by
> praying over the wire table . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
oops. I sure did. ,#7 awg would be 1/2 mohm..#13 is 2 mohms . my
bad
-Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
>
>
> Bob N.,
>
> I believe you slipped in the wrong direction. #7 AWG is larger than #10
> AWG
> therefore the resistance should be less.
>
> Roger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:13 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
>
>
> I believe you slipped a zero. 6 awg is 0.4 mOhms per foot so the
> voltage
> drop on 4 feet is just under 0.1 volts.
>
> An easy rule of thumb to remember is 10 awg wire is 1 milliohm per 1 foot,
> every three wire sizes doubles the resistance. (so 7 awg would be about 2
> milliohms per foot.)
>
> -Bob Newman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need help with desicsion
>
>
>>
>>
>> At 08:25 AM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>I am running a 60 amp alternator in my system and can't decide which way
>>>to go with the wire size to the main bus. #8 is good to 57 amps, my max
>>>continuous load is 45 amps. If I get right up to the 60 amp load for
>>>some
>
>>>reason this will exceed the wire limits, I will also have a 60 am ANL.
>>>
>>>Is the #8 wire a compromise or is it just fine, or should I go up to #6?
>>>I do have the #6 wire, so it is not a matter of saving $, just the
>>>weight,
>
>>>the only thing I would need is some lugs. I bought the #6 wire without
>>>really thinking this through. I want to do this the best way possible,
>>>not just what will work. So since materials are not the issue which way
>>>would you guys and gals go.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the help, am I over thinking this!
>>
>> Assuming that you're alternator b-lead is 4' long,
>> a 6AWG at 4 mOhms/Ft will drop 60 x .004 x 4 = .96
>> volts at full load. If your alternator is an externally
>> regulated device then the regulator senses BUS voltage
>> instead of B-terminal voltage and it will compensate
>> for the voltage drop. However, if internally regulated,
>> the bus will run about 1.0 volts low during full load
>> operations. In practice, you'd never be able to realize
>> that loading because loads on the alternator are a
>> combination of system requirements + battery recharge
>> currents. For a 14.2v setpoint, a 13.2v bus wouldn't
>> significantly stimulate the battery to soak up the
>> joules it would like to have if the bus were actually
>> higher.
>>
>> If your alternator is externally regulated, then
>> voltage drops in the b-lead only limit your minimum
>> speed for full alternator output . . . which at
>> take-off or cruise settings is not a limiting
>> factor.
>>
>> The trends are moving toward internally
>> regulated (b-lead sense) and small b-lead feeders
>> COMBINED with all other wires between the alternator
>> and battery can stack up voltage drops that will
>> impact battery recharge performance. This is why
>> the Z-figures generally show 4AWG or larger for
>> b-lead feeders . . . and all other fat-wires.
>>
>> Having said that, unless your battery is seriously
>> discharged, these simple-ideas in physics have
>> little perceivable effect on your operations.
>> Going to the wire tables is not particularly
>> useful for fat-wire calculations since their
>> recommendations are based on temperature rises
>> that generally fall WELL BELOW that which the
>> wire will tolerate in your airplane. The hard-
>> hat consideration is for voltage drop under the
>> worst case conditions. There are additional
>> voltage drops to be considered for the full-
>> up system.
>>
>> Know that automobiles tend to use fat-wires that
>> are a lot smaller than the aviation community
>> would find acceptable for meeting design goals.
>> At the same time, except for a severely discharge
>> battery, automobiles almost never encounter conditions
>> that exploit the full capability of the
>> alternator. I've often suggested that if it
>> were my airplane and the batteries were up front,
>> I'd craft all the fat-wire paths with 4AWG welding
>> cable for reasons that are not readily revealed by
>> praying over the wire table . . .
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM |
I know there are several folks out there who have UPS AT (now Garmin) Apollo
GX-60/65, SL-30/40 avionics. I've followed the installation instructions
very carefully but I'm still experiencing some issues that seem attributable
to the connector pins on the unit occasionally not making good contact with
the connector/sockets on the tray. My GX-65 has to have a pin grounded in
order for the unit to NOT go into simulation mode. The wonderful
consequence of this DUMB design decision is that unit has been entering SIM
mode occasionally after I turn the avionics on. I can make it stop if I
turn it off and joggle the radio in the tray a little and then turn the unit
on again. I checked the connectors on the back of the tray and they are not
loose and they are installed on the backside of the tray per the
instructions. There don't seem to be any loose pins and none of the wires
are loose, broken or otherwise unattached. I've installed the unit in the
tray with the cam per instructions taking care not to over tighten but to
make sure the cam is as tight as seems possible. I was also getting a COM
radio failure on the same unit but the radio tested out fine, after jiggling
the antenna connector on the back of the tray I stopped getting the failure
but am wondering how long that will last.
Question, is anyone else experiencing this? Is there a cure? Having to
jiggle a $3000.00 piece of equipment back and forth in the tray to make it
work is outrageous. Please advise!
Bob is there any similarity in the connector pin world to the correlary that
a switch will fail sooner if not used (due to the contacts not rubbing over
each other and keeping corrosion at bay)? UPS AT uses DB-15 and DB-30
connectors with crimp on gold plated pins/sockets which I used with tefzel
wire grounded to a forest of tabs. I have a 2 gauge tefzel wire from the
tabs to the battery ground. Please advise.
Thanks all....
Dean Psiropoulos
N197DM RV-6A
Tampa bay area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM |
Dean,
My Garmin 480 had the same problems. The solution was to push the unit in a
little harder before the cam is turned. The units must seat all the way to
work and the cam can't do that if the unit is not in far enough first.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM
I know there are several folks out there who have UPS AT (now Garmin) Apollo
GX-60/65, SL-30/40 avionics. I've followed the installation instructions
very carefully but I'm still experiencing some issues that seem attributable
to the connector pins on the unit occasionally not making good contact with
the connector/sockets on the tray. My GX-65 has to have a pin grounded in
order for the unit to NOT go into simulation mode. The wonderful
consequence of this DUMB design decision is that unit has been entering SIM
mode occasionally after I turn the avionics on. I can make it stop if I
turn it off and joggle the radio in the tray a little and then turn the unit
on again. I checked the connectors on the back of the tray and they are not
loose and they are installed on the backside of the tray per the
instructions. There don't seem to be any loose pins and none of the wires
are loose, broken or otherwise unattached. I've installed the unit in the
tray with the cam per instructions taking care not to over tighten but to
make sure the cam is as tight as seems possible. I was also getting a COM
radio failure on the same unit but the radio tested out fine, after jiggling
the antenna connector on the back of the tray I stopped getting the failure
but am wondering how long that will last.
Question, is anyone else experiencing this? Is there a cure? Having to
jiggle a $3000.00 piece of equipment back and forth in the tray to make it
work is outrageous. Please advise!
Bob is there any similarity in the connector pin world to the correlary that
a switch will fail sooner if not used (due to the contacts not rubbing over
each other and keeping corrosion at bay)? UPS AT uses DB-15 and DB-30
connectors with crimp on gold plated pins/sockets which I used with tefzel
wire grounded to a forest of tabs. I have a 2 gauge tefzel wire from the
tabs to the battery ground. Please advise.
Thanks all....
Dean Psiropoulos
N197DM RV-6A
Tampa bay area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
Hey guys -
I have a puzzling question for you. At least it's puzzling to me.
I'm studying my downloaded engine monitor data and it appears that when I
transmit on the radio that I get an amperage spike and a simultaneous
voltage drop. That makes sense - but, at the same time my OAT readings drop
several degrees F and then recover to normal after the transmission.
The OAT probe is in a NACA duct on the bottom of the wing and it is exposed
to the bent wire radio antenna.
Is it possible that the signal from the radio antenna is affecting the OAT
readings when the radio signal hits the OAT probe?
Confused in Daytona Beach,
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | wire bundle protection |
What can be used as a flexible conduit when running wire bundles-along a
tube and fabric airplane frame?
-In auto circles they use corregated plastic tubing that is slit along on
e side. The wire bundle can then be inserted inside. Is this material accep
table? It seems more durable than the old style spiral wrap and also easier
to apply to a wire bundle.
-
Thanks,
Eric - in Michigan
----=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM |
Dean,
The other option you have is to remove the back-plate socket and plug it
in directly. That worked for me. It just makes me reach a bit more to
remove it for updating (SL 60).
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM
Dean,
My Garmin 480 had the same problems. The solution was to push the unit
in a
little harder before the cam is turned. The units must seat all the way
to
work and the cam can't do that if the unit is not in far enough first.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM
I know there are several folks out there who have UPS AT (now Garmin)
Apollo
GX-60/65, SL-30/40 avionics. I've followed the installation
instructions
very carefully but I'm still experiencing some issues that seem
attributable
to the connector pins on the unit occasionally not making good contact
with
the connector/sockets on the tray. My GX-65 has to have a pin grounded
in
order for the unit to NOT go into simulation mode. The wonderful
consequence of this DUMB design decision is that unit has been entering
SIM
mode occasionally after I turn the avionics on. I can make it stop if I
turn it off and joggle the radio in the tray a little and then turn the
unit
on again. I checked the connectors on the back of the tray and they are
not
loose and they are installed on the backside of the tray per the
instructions. There don't seem to be any loose pins and none of the
wires
are loose, broken or otherwise unattached. I've installed the unit in
the
tray with the cam per instructions taking care not to over tighten but
to
make sure the cam is as tight as seems possible. I was also getting a
COM
radio failure on the same unit but the radio tested out fine, after
jiggling
the antenna connector on the back of the tray I stopped getting the
failure
but am wondering how long that will last.
Question, is anyone else experiencing this? Is there a cure? Having to
jiggle a $3000.00 piece of equipment back and forth in the tray to make
it
work is outrageous. Please advise!
Bob is there any similarity in the connector pin world to the correlary
that
a switch will fail sooner if not used (due to the contacts not rubbing
over
each other and keeping corrosion at bay)? UPS AT uses DB-15 and DB-30
connectors with crimp on gold plated pins/sockets which I used with
tefzel
wire grounded to a forest of tabs. I have a 2 gauge tefzel wire from
the
tabs to the battery ground. Please advise.
Thanks all....
Dean Psiropoulos
N197DM RV-6A
Tampa bay area
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire bundle protection |
| From: | "Remi Khu" <rkhu(at)kc.rr.com> |
I used lengths of shower curtain rod covers for the chase in my cozy project. They're
covered by the arm rests though. Just another way to skin a cat.
-- Remi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire bundle protection |
Eric,
You can get a roll of half inch drip system tube at you local hardware
store for a few bucks. It's light, flexible and easy to work with.
Steve Hamer
RV-6
Apple Valley, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working, Coupling |
Failed
| From: | "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> |
The past 254 hours have been great...until yesterday. My alternator coupling failed...AGAIN!
I had purchased a rebuilt unit from Drake Air (as noted above
in this thread). $450 versus $1,600 from TCM for a new one.
Is there any reason this part should fail so soon? Oil, hours, temps, alternator
load, how the load is applied, etc?
I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part failed...prematurely...in
my opinion!
I have to pull my engine to remove the alternator. ...insult to injury! :?
Again...I welcome input from the forum!
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269543#269543
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working, |
Coupling Failed
>
>I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their
>part failed...prematurely...in my opinion!
>
>I have to pull my engine to remove the alternator. ...insult to injury! :?
>
>Again...I welcome input from the forum!
In what manner did it fail? Was it the
same failure mode as the first one?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 01:04 AM 10/26/2009, you wrote:
>Hey guys -
>I have a puzzling question for you. At least it's puzzling to me.
>I'm studying my downloaded engine monitor data and it appears that
>when I transmit on the radio that I get an amperage spike and a
>simultaneous voltage drop. That makes sense - but, at the same time
>my OAT readings drop several degrees F and then recover to normal
>after the transmission.
>The OAT probe is in a NACA duct on the bottom of the wing and it is
>exposed to the bent wire radio antenna.
>Is it possible that the signal from the radio antenna is affecting
>the OAT readings when the radio signal hits the OAT probe?
Sounds like a susceptibility problem with
the instrumentation system. The offending
stimulus (comm transmitter) gets into the
instrumentation electronics via ship's wiring.
Systems destined for installation in TC aircraft
are tested for this effect and filters sufficient
to the task are included inside the instrument
enclosure.
Try putting a dummy load on your antenna coax
AT THE ANTENNA. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/RF_Antenna_Test_Tools/DummyLoad.jpg
if the problem goes away with the dummy load
attached, then you need to add filtering to
the instrumentation system or see if moving the
antenna further way does the job. If the problem
does NOT go away, then you've got a shield ground
open in the feedline between radio and antenna.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with desicsion |
At 06:13 PM 10/25/2009, you wrote:
>
>I believe you slipped a zero. 6 awg is 0.4 mOhms per foot so the
>voltage drop on 4 feet is just under 0.1 volts.
Oops! Good eye. You're correct.
>An easy rule of thumb to remember is 10 awg wire is 1 milliohm per 1
>foot, every three wire sizes doubles the resistance. (so 7 awg
>would be about 2 milliohms per foot.)
Yup, wrote about that in several places . . . but
drop to 7 gets you 0.5 mOhm/ft and 6 awg would necessarily
be lower. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
Thanks for the heads-up
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Barber <cbarber(at)TexasAttorney.net> |
| Subject: | wire bundle protection |
I love this stuff.
http://cableorganizer.com/f6-wrap-around/
I got the fire retardant version. Really easy to use and looks really nice
. IMAO.
All the best,
Christopher Barber
Houston
Velocity SE w/rotary 13B
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-aeroelectric-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hamer [s.hamer(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire bundle protection
Eric,
You can get a roll of half inch drip system tube at you local hardware stor
e for a few bucks. It's light, flexible and easy to work with.
Steve Hamer
RV-6
Apple Valley, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
| From: | "Overtorque" <lezbnd(at)gmail.com> |
Hi everybody,
I found the name of my contact: Amphenol AIRLB....
Fortunatly I met a guy familiar with this type of contact.
Thank you very much for all input
Overtorque
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269622#269622
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator quit working, Coupling |
10/27/2009
Hello Travis, You wrote:
1) "My alternator coupling failed...AGAIN!"
Bummer -- I feel a bit guilty because I steered you in the direction of
Drake back in November 2006. The history of your alternator couplings is not
clear to me:
a) Your original TCM factory provided coupling that came with your engine
failed after how many hours?
b) You sent the original failed coupling off to Drake and they refurbished
it. How many hours did you get on this refurbished coupling before it
failed?
2) "I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part
failed...prematurely...in
my opinion!"
In addition to this query to Drake (from whom you may not get a completely
unbiased answer) I would call TCM Technical Services (1-888-826-5465) and
ask some questions:
a) What is the expected service hours life of their elastomeric coupling?
b) What factors could shorten that service life?
c) Do they have any info from the field on the durability of Drake's
coupling versus TCM's coupling?
d) Who makes the TCM coupling?
You can see where this is heading. It may turn out that a $1,600 TCM
coupling is a more cost effective item than a $450 Drake refurbished
coupling. The durability of the Drake refurbished coupling would be
dependent upon: A) The quality of the elastomeric material used, and B) The
quality of the workmanship in casting / assembling the coupling.
Can you recall how the original TCM coupling failed? Was it a shearing of
the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeric from the metal
parts?
Similarly, how did the Drake refurbished coupling fail? Was it a shearing of
the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeic from the metal
parts?
Regardless of which coupling source you decide to use you may want to apply
the torque test to it before you install it. The torque test is described in
the TCM SB95-3B.
Good luck and please keep us informed.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: I am flying a KIS TR-1 with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine with a Prince P tip
prop. 263 hours tach time with the engine above 1,500 RPM. With my new wheel
pants I can get 140 knots indicated airspeed.
==========================================================
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working,
Coupling
Failed
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
The past 254 hours have been great...until yesterday. My alternator
coupling failed...AGAIN!
I had purchased a rebuilt unit from Drake Air (as noted above
in this thread). $450 versus $1,600 from TCM for a new one.
Is there any reason this part should fail so soon? Oil, hours, temps,
alternator
load, how the load is applied, etc?
I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part
failed...prematurely...in
my opinion!
I have to pull my engine to remove the alternator. ...insult to injury! :?
Again...I welcome input from the forum!
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269543#269543
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flakey UPS AT GPS/COM |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Is that ground signal the only intermittent you have?
You might rework that one pin to wire joint on the back side of the connector.
Does pulling the unit straight forward break the connection? It might be
a faulty pin or poorly captured one in the connector body.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269635#269635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What makes diode get warm |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
I have the B&C diode on the heat sink (smaller one). I was bench testing things
to make sure the flow was correct, I just took the breaker panel and hooked
up power to the main bus then the E-bus. The diode did not heat up at all, the
flow was in the correct direction. I hooked up power to the E-bus and the diode
did prevent current to the main bus, the main would only read 0.4 volts which
I assume is normal. With this set up the diode again did not heat up. I
then hooked up one of the 50W MR16 landing light bulbs to a CB thinking maybe
I needed a load, again the diode did not heat up.
So what make the diode heat up, is it more load on the system or is it when there
is power going to both buses, as when you have the master on and the E-bus
alternate feed on at the same time. With both buses getting power the diode is
getting power from both sides. I hear you can fly around this way but not sure
I will, my plan now is the have my E-bus alternate feed under a guarded switch
that stay off when guarded. When the E-bus gets power from the main via
the diode there is a slight voltage drop, the the E-bus alternate feed was on
the flow from the battery to the E-bus would win out and supply the E-bus since
the voltage from the main is lower. So would this meeting of currents be what
heats up the diode? As far as flying around with the E-bus alternate feed
on I don't see the need with my system I have a standby alternator. Once I am
using standby power then I might consider turning the alternate feed on for automatic
switching in case the standby alternator then quit. Thank for the help.
Cheer
Mike
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269670#269670
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bending male tabs on diode |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
My diode is mounted on my CB panel which is by my right leg. When I hooked up
the blade connectors they stick out just enough that the radius of wire touches
the fuselage. I bent over the tabs with some duck bill pliers, the diode arrived
with one tab slightly bent so I knew they are fairly easy to bend. The thing
bench tests fine, other than heat shrinking the connector since they are
closer to the sides of the diode is there anything wrong with doing this? Picture
attached for illustration.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269674#269674
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
rvg8tor wrote:
>
> I have the B&C diode on the heat sink (smaller one). I was bench testing things
to make sure the flow was correct, I just took the breaker panel and hooked
up power to the main bus then the E-bus. The diode did not heat up at all,
the flow was in the correct direction. I hooked up power to the E-bus and the
diode did prevent current to the main bus, the main would only read 0.4 volts
which I assume is normal. With this set up the diode again did not heat up.
I then hooked up one of the 50W MR16 landing light bulbs to a CB thinking maybe
I needed a load, again the diode did not heat up.
>
> So what make the diode heat up, is it more load on the system or is it when there
is power going to both buses, as when you have the master on and the E-bus
alternate feed on at the same time. With both buses getting power the diode
is getting power from both sides. I hear you can fly around this way but not
sure I will, my plan now is the have my E-bus alternate feed under a guarded
switch that stay off when guarded. When the E-bus gets power from the main via
the diode there is a slight voltage drop, the the E-bus alternate feed was on
the flow from the battery to the E-bus would win out and supply the E-bus since
the voltage from the main is lower. So would this meeting of currents be
what heats up the diode? As far as flying around with the E-bus alternate feed
on I don't see the need with my system I have a standby alternator. Once I
am using standby power then I might consider turning the alternate feed on for
automatic switching in case the standby alternator th!
> en quit. Thank for the help.
>
> Cheer
> Mike
>
> --------
Bob will probably provide a better answer, but the quick & dirty is
that it's called a 'semi-conductor' because it's not a pure conductor.
There's some resistance even with the electrons flowing 'forward', and
it will heat up due to the work being done pushing them through this
resistance, just like a wire heats up with a lot of current flowing
through it. With more electrons flowing (more current), more heat.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "plaurence" <peterlaurence6(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | What makes diode get warm |
Mike,
If you have a second alternator, and using B&C's regulators, you really
don't need the E buss.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvg8tor
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: What makes diode get warm
I have the B&C diode on the heat sink (smaller one). I was bench testing
things to make sure the flow was correct, I just took the breaker panel and
hooked up power to the main bus then the E-bus. The diode did not heat up
at all, the flow was in the correct direction. I hooked up power to the
E-bus and the diode did prevent current to the main bus, the main would only
read 0.4 volts which I assume is normal. With this set up the diode again
did not heat up. I then hooked up one of the 50W MR16 landing light bulbs
to a CB thinking maybe I needed a load, again the diode did not heat up.
So what make the diode heat up, is it more load on the system or is it when
there is power going to both buses, as when you have the master on and the
E-bus alternate feed on at the same time. With both buses getting power the
diode is getting power from both sides. I hear you can fly around this way
but not sure I will, my plan now is the have my E-bus alternate feed under a
guarded switch that stay off when guarded. When the E-bus gets power from
the main via the diode there is a slight voltage drop, the the E-bus
alternate feed was on the flow from the battery to the E-bus would win out
and supply the E-bus since the voltage from the main is lower. So would
this meeting of currents be what heats up the diode? As far as flying
around with the E-bus alternate feed on I don't see the need with my system
I have a standby alternator. Once I am using standby power then I might
consider turning the alternate feed on for automatic switching in case the
standby alternator th!
en quit. Thank for the help.
Cheer
Mike
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269670#269670
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
>
>
> rvg8tor wrote:
>>
>> I have the B&C diode on the heat sink (smaller one). I was bench
>> testing things to make sure the flow was correct, I just took the
>> breaker panel and hooked up power to the main bus then the E-bus. The
>> diode did not heat up at all, the flow was in the correct direction. I
>> hooked up power to the E-bus and the diode did prevent current to the
>> main bus, the main would only read 0.4 volts which I assume is normal.
>> With this set up the diode again did not heat up. I then hooked up one
>> of the 50W MR16 landing light bulbs to a CB thinking maybe I needed a
>> load, again the diode did not heat up.
>>
>> So what make the diode heat up, is it more load on the system or is it
>> when there is power going to both buses, as when you have the master on
>> and the E-bus alternate feed on at the same time. With both buses
>> getting power the diode is getting power from both sides. I hear you
>> can fly around this way but not sure I will, my plan now is the have my
>> E-bus alternate feed under a guarded switch that stay off when guarded.
>> When the E-bus gets power from the main via the diode there is a slight
>> voltage drop, the the E-bus alternate feed was on the flow from the
>> battery to the E-bus would win out and supply the E-bus since the
>> voltage from the main is lower. So would this meeting of currents be
>> what heats up the diode? As far as flying around with the E-bus
>> alternate feed on I don't see the need with my system I have a standby
>> alternator. Once I am using standby power then I might consider turning
>> the alternate feed on for automatic switching in case the standby
>> alternator !
> th!
>> en quit. Thank for the help.
>>
>> Cheer
>> Mike
>>
>> --------
> Bob will probably provide a better answer, but the quick & dirty is
> that it's called a 'semi-conductor' because it's not a pure conductor.
> There's some resistance even with the electrons flowing 'forward', and
> it will heat up due to the work being done pushing them through this
> resistance, just like a wire heats up with a lot of current flowing
> through it. With more electrons flowing (more current), more heat.
>
> Charlie
>
Right.
The ebus diode will run hottest when the ebus is powered through it. To
observe this, the ebus alternate feed switch needs to be open, and power
(battery) directly to the main bus. At this point, any loads on the ebus
will pull current through the diode and cause it to heat up.
Regards,
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B Szantho" <jszantho(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
I plan to position my transponder antenna (GTX330) just behind the firewall
on the left, next to the fuel vent line (RV9A). This location is about 34"
from the back of the transponder. Do you guys see any problems with this
location, if you do where would you place the antenna. The whip-style COM
antenna will be located behind the pilots seat. Also do you know of a good
wiring diagram between the SL30 and the GMA340 audio box. Thanks for any
help.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Transponder antenna location |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
John:
As a rule of thumb an antenna wants a ground plane around it that is
infinite. In practice it should be at least (roughly) a wave long or so i
n
all directions. The more the better. What I mean is that the antenna might
have a more radially uniform pattern if it was not right at the edge of the
floor skin, immediately behind the firewall. That gives it an asymmetric
ground plane and will distort the antenna pattern. I put mine closer to th
e
gear weldment (on a 6A) so that it was under the seat skins. I kept it abou
t
1 wavelength away from the steel (=conductive) landing gear. (at 1GHz 1 w
ave
is about a foot - your xponder antenna is 1/4 wave).
I haven't run the thing yet, so I can't tell you that it works well there,
just that it should work better there than at the forward edge of things.
In practice it might not matter much. Still, I thought it better not to
tempt fate. Antenna design is a black art.
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:33 PM, John B Szantho wrote:
> I plan to position my transponder antenna (GTX330) just behind the
> firewall on the left, next to the fuel vent line (RV9A). This location is
> about 34=9D from the back of the transponder. Do you guys see any p
roblems
> with this location, if you do where would you place the antenna. The
> whip-style COM antenna will be located behind the pilots seat. Also do yo
u
> know of a good wiring diagram between the SL30 and the GMA340 audio box.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> John
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | What makes diode get warm |
-
-
Which Z diagram would it look like without the E buss?
-
Eric
From: "plaurence" <peterlaurence6(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What makes diode get warm
Mike,
If you have a second alternator, and using B&C's regulators, you really
don't need the E buss.
Peter
//mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
At 01:06 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>I have the B&C diode on the heat sink (smaller one). I was bench
>testing things to make sure the flow was correct, I just took the
>breaker panel and hooked up power to the main bus then the
>E-bus. The diode did not heat up at all, the flow was in the
>correct direction. I hooked up power to the E-bus and the diode did
>prevent current to the main bus, the main would only read 0.4 volts
>which I assume is normal. With this set up the diode again did not
>heat up. I then hooked up one of the 50W MR16 landing light bulbs
>to a CB thinking maybe I needed a load, again the diode did not heat up.
Perhaps it did . . . just not enough for you to perceive it
by feeling. Was your e-bus alternate feed switch OPEN
during the test. If so, then the normal feed path diode
would have been carrying all the e-bus loads and it would
warm up.
Why a diode on a heat-sink? How large are your anticipated
e-bus loads? The diode-bridge rectifier mounted on a metal
airframe surface is good for 10+ amps. Schottky diodes
are a bit better yet. I've tested this guy to 20A
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9001/IM9001-700A.pdf
when mounted on a surface .062" thick with no additional
heat sinking.
>So what make the diode heat up, is it more load on the system or is
>it when there is power going to both buses, as when you have the
>master on and the E-bus alternate feed on at the same time.
If the alternate feedpath switch is closed, then the
normal feed-path is bypassed and the diode will carry
no current . . . nor will it warm up.
>With both buses getting power the diode is getting power from both
>sides. I hear you can fly around this way but not sure I will, my
>plan now is the have my E-bus alternate feed under a guarded switch
>that stay off when guarded. When the E-bus gets power from the main
>via the diode there is a slight voltage drop . . .
and is the time when it dissipates a few watts of power
and will warm up. The degree of temperature rise depends
on mass and configuration of the heat sink.
> . . . the the E-bus alternate feed was on the flow from the
> battery to the E-bus would win out and supply the E-bus since the
> voltage from the main is lower. . . .
The main bus voltage isn't 'lower' but a voltage drop
in the normal feed path becomes insignificant when
the alternate feed path bypasses the diode.
> So would this meeting of currents be what heats up the diode? As
> far as flying around with the E-bus alternate feed on I don't see
> the need with my system I have a standby alternator.
How about being able to fire up the comm radio for
ATIS and clearance delivery before starting the engine?
THIS is the time that the alternate feed path
is also tested.
> Once I am using standby power then I might consider turning the
> alternate feed on for automatic switching in case the standby
> alternator then quit. Thank for the help.
The purpose of the alternate feed path switch is to
allow battery only operations without having a battery
contactor closed. You didn't mention which, if any
of the Z-figures you based your system. If you're
running Z-12, then having the switch "pre-closed"
offers no degree of automation. I'll suggest you do
a site search on "e-bus" at aeroelectric.com and
review the conversation about how the e-bus came into
being and what it's all about. There's about 30
hits that should offer some insight.
Over the past 15 or so years, folks have tended to
overload the e-bus and/or lost track of the
e-bus design goals. It may well be that your
design goals are served by not having an e-bus.
It's a strong probability that your normal feed-path
diode assembly is oversized.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
| From: | "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net> |
Bob N.
When I looked at the B&C website for my diode the install instructions for the
diode said for an E-bus drawing more than 3 amps to mount the diode on a heat
sink, my E-bus will draw 9 amps. So I bought he diode already mounted to the
heat sink, I did not think about the fact that just mounting it to the metal panel
would provide some heat sink capability.
I have read many posts with regard to E-bus design, my goal was not to fly to my
destination if I was battery only but to be able to fly to suitable field, not
necessarily the closest field and land to make repairs. In all honesty I think
I may never see battery only when I consider the probability of losing both
main and standby alternators. I like the insurance of the standby alternator
when I consider IFR operations, this is my main reason for adding this to this
and hence my adoption of Z-12.
Thanks again for the help you provide it is much appreciated, I have been learning
a lot.
--------
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Fuselage)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269970#269970
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
At 10:00 AM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob N.
>
>When I looked at the B&C website for my diode the install
>instructions for the diode said for an E-bus drawing more than 3
>amps to mount the diode on a heat sink, my E-bus will draw 9
>amps. So I bought he diode already mounted to the heat sink, I did
>not think about the fact that just mounting it to the metal panel
>would provide some heat sink capability.
>
>I have read many posts with regard to E-bus design, my goal was not
>to fly to my destination if I was battery only but to be able to fly
>to suitable field, not necessarily the closest field and land to
>make repairs. In all honesty I think I may never see battery only
>when I consider the probability of losing both main and standby
>alternators. I like the insurance of the standby alternator when I
>consider IFR operations, this is my main reason for adding this to
>this and hence my adoption of Z-12.
>
>Thanks again for the help you provide it is much appreciated, I have
>been learning a lot.
Then leave the e-bus out. There are thousands of Bonanzas,
and large Piper/Cessna singles wired like Z-12. This pre-supposes
that you're not interested in the pre-flight power up of a
comm radio before starting the engine.
Z-12 Works good, lasts a long time.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open |
barrel
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi!
I crimped my first wire last night. I have a Crimpaster with a 30-579 die set in
it. I hadn't realized that this set is specifically made for insulated terminals.
Put the terminal in so it is sticking out of the side with the red, blue,
and yellow sizes stamped on it. Squeeze until the ratchet releases, and I have
two crimps with one pull, one crimp for the wire and the other for the insulator.
Ideal tech support verified this is the correct way, but they didn't know if this
die for insulated terminals could be used for uninsulated terminals, also.
It looks like the crimp bay for the insulation would be narrower than that for
the wire. This means when using it for a non-insulated terminal, the closest
crimp to the terminal end ('1st crimp') would be good, but the '2nd crimp' using
the insulation bay would smash it too much. Doesn't seem like it would work.
I forgot to ask about open barrel terminal crimping with this tool. I've got a
few of those, but haven't tried any crimping yet.
Ideal lists part #30-586 for a 'non-insulated open barrel' die and 30-580 for 22-8
AWG non-insulated terminals. Would these work? Seems like I would have been
better off just getting a crimper that makes one crimp at a time.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270137#270137
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Roe" <wroe1(at)dbtech.net> |
| Subject: | BNC to RG400 connections |
I'm ready to run the coax in the RV-7 now. Does anyone have any helpful
comments regarding attaching BNC connectors to RG400 or similar. I have
heard that crimp-on connectors are not desired compared to solder...is
this bum info?
Also, what tools are recommended for stripping/crimping coax?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
EAA 557
RV-7 in progress
Aeronca Champ flying
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC to RG400 connections |
I just finished doing a set of these per Bob's pics and articles on his
site. For example:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
(I think that is pre-RG400 cable)
Recommend that you search around on his site under strippers (3 blades)
and crimpers for coax. Then you'll have some more specific questions.
Wade Roe wrote:
>
> I'm ready to run the coax in the RV-7 now. Does anyone have any helpful
> comments regarding attaching BNC connectors to RG400 or similar. I have
> heard that crimp-on connectors are not desired compared to solder...is
> this bum info?
>
> Also, what tools are recommended for stripping/crimping coax?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Wade Roe
>
> EAA 557
> RV-7 in progress
> Aeronca Champ flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BNC to RG400 connections |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Crimping works fine if it is done well. When I bought my RG-400 connectors
from B and C they provide a diagram showing what dimensions to strip the
sheath, shielding and central conductor to. I think I used an Ideal crimper
which was about $30. I've talked to the tower and tested the ELT so far.
Haven't flown yet, though.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Wade Roe wrote:
>
> I'm ready to run the coax in the RV-7 now. Does anyone have any helpful
> comments regarding attaching BNC connectors to RG400 or similar. I have
> heard that crimp-on connectors are not desired compared to solder...is
> this bum info?
>
> Also, what tools are recommended for stripping/crimping coax?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Wade Roe
>
> EAA 557
> RV-7 in progress
> Aeronca Champ flying
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BNC to RG400 connections |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Crimping works fine if it is done well. I work at a large observatory and
we build a lot of electronic stuff here with lots of coaxes. All our BNC's
are crimped.
When I bought my RG-400 connectors from B and C they provided a diagram
showing what dimensions to strip the sheath, shielding and central conductor
to. I think I used an Ideal crimper which was about $30. I've talked to
the tower and tested the ELT so far and it all seems to work. Haven't flown
yet, though.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Wade Roe wrote:
>
> I'm ready to run the coax in the RV-7 now. Does anyone have any helpful
> comments regarding attaching BNC connectors to RG400 or similar. I have
> heard that crimp-on connectors are not desired compared to solder...is
> this bum info?
>
> Also, what tools are recommended for stripping/crimping coax?
>
> Thanks!
> Wade Roe
>
> EAA 557
> RV-7 in progress
> Aeronca Champ flying
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC to RG400 connections |
At 01:45 PM 10/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I'm ready to run the coax in the RV-7 now. Does anyone have any helpful
>comments regarding attaching BNC connectors to RG400 or similar. I have
>heard that crimp-on connectors are not desired compared to solder...is
>this bum info?
>
>Also, what tools are recommended for stripping/crimping coax?
Crimping the right connector with the right tool is
the preferred process. NOBODY solders them any more
if it can be avoided.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/coaxconn/coaxconn.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Coax_Stripper/coaxstrip.html
You can get tools like this
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-2.jpg
from http://bandc.biz
http://steinair.com/tools.htm
You need a .213" hex die and a .068"
square die in the tool for installing
the connectors illustrated and offered
on their websites.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and |
open barrel
At 12:58 PM 10/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi!
>
>I crimped my first wire last night. I have a Crimpaster with a
>30-579 die set in it. I hadn't realized that this set is
>specifically made for insulated terminals. Put the terminal in so it
>is sticking out of the side with the red, blue, and yellow sizes
>stamped on it. Squeeze until the ratchet releases, and I have two
>crimps with one pull, one crimp for the wire and the other for the insulator.
>
>Ideal tech support verified this is the correct way, but they didn't
>know if this die for insulated terminals could be used for
>uninsulated terminals, also. It looks like the crimp bay for the
>insulation would be narrower than that for the wire. This means when
>using it for a non-insulated terminal, the closest crimp to the
>terminal end ('1st crimp') would be good, but the '2nd crimp' using
>the insulation bay would smash it too much. Doesn't seem like it would work.
>
>I forgot to ask about open barrel terminal crimping with this tool.
>I've got a few of those, but haven't tried any crimping yet.
>
>Ideal lists part #30-586 for a 'non-insulated open barrel' die and
>30-580 for 22-8 AWG non-insulated terminals. Would these work? Seems
>like I would have been better off just getting a crimper that makes
>one crimp at a time.
EACH tool's die needs to be tailored to EACH terminal's
crimping requirements. No single tool installs insulated,
uninsulated, and open-barrel terminals. See various
illustrated articles on http://aeroelectric.com . . .
Uninsulated terminals are recommended ONLY for fat
wires where you'll want to ADD insulation support
with beefy heatshink after crimping or soldering
the terminal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC and RG 174 |
At 05:34 AM 10/24/2009, you wrote:
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Bob and all,
>
>Some time ago you published a page on connecting a regular (big) BNC
>connector to a skinny coax cable (RG 174 ?).
>To date I've been unable to retrieve the document.
>Could you point me in the right direction ?
I found the article that speaks to adding BNC
connectors to the ends of smaller diameter wires.
It's at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58.html
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What makes diode get warm |
| From: | "laracroft" <laracroft4321(at)gmail.com> |
Hi,
Me Laracroft,
The diode will heat when the ebus is powered through it. To observe this, the ebus
alternate feed switch needs to be open, and power (battery) directly to the
main bus. so I am agree with Mike.
--------
R4games
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270206#270206
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open |
barrel
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Bob :-)
I would have used insulated terminals, but they don't make faston insulated terminals
for 8AWG. I already have the wire, so need to go with what they make, uninsulated
open barrel faston receptacles with separate ears for wire and insulation.
I've seen the open barrel crimpers with butt-cheek pockets, but I don't
have very many of these connections, so I'm thinking I could use my cheapo GB
crimper. It only goes down to 10awg, but since it's not a cycling crimper, it
might work. Or I could bend the tabs over individually using a pair of pliers.
Another issue I have is figuring out which end goes where with the Crimpaster for
PIDG terminals. The left side of the tool have dies shaped like flying saucers
and are coded with numbers and colors for size. The right side ones are more
elliptical. The right side also is a little narrower than the left. So the
terminal sticks out the left side and the wire goes in from the right?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270247#270247
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gb_cheapo_crimper_836.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crimpmaster_right_side_270.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crimpmaster_left_side_383.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KIS-List: Aircraft electric question |
10/31/2009
Hello Al, You wrote: "When wiring for the systems that are controlled by
switches in the cockpit
such as lighting, flaps, pitot heat, do you run the full amperage through
the 20A switches or should the switches trip relays to handle the larger
current?"
If the switch is capable enough to handle the load it is simpler, and with
less parts count, to control the items directly with the switch. So you
start out with the switch rating and the current draw (including surge) of
the item to be controlled.
If you reach the point where the switch rating is inadequate then it is time
to start thinking in terms of relays. Of course the wire guage and circuit
protection device (fuses or circuit breakers) must also be appropriately
sized.
I know that there is a tendency among builders to shy away from the
electrical aspects of the building for a long time. It has been my
experience that once a builder gets his feet wet in this arena he almost
invariable realizes that this electrical stuff is fun, educational, and very
satisfying to work with.
If you don't already have a copy of Bob Nuckoll's book "The Aeroelectrical
Connection", -- see here:
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/pub/pub.html#P-Book
you should buy one or borrow one locally. You may rebel at first look and
say that this is far more than I need to know or want to know about this
subject -- fair enough, then treat it as reference material. It is not a
cook book per se, but that book plus the folks on the matronics
aeroelectric-list will do more towards keeping your electrical system on
track than any two other sources in the world.
I am going to shoot this over to the folks on the aeroelectric-list and see
how they react.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: Please let me display one personal bias here. There are various magic
electrical boxes available commercially. The fundamental theme seems to run
along the line of "if you buy our box then all of your electrical problems
will be solved and you don't really need to learn anything or do anything
except just connect it up." Frequently the customers who go that route wind
up concluding that the magic box does not do exactly what they want it to
and they fish around for some sort of modification.
================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alfred Rosa" <76papa(at)dishmail.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Aircraft electric question
> --> KIS-List message posted by: Alfred Rosa <76papa(at)dishmail.net>
>
> I know I could go to aeroelectric with this but they tend to talk too
> technical for me. My question is simple and maybe even stupid: When
> wiring for the systems that are controlled by switches in the cockpit
> such as lighting, flaps, pitot heat, do you run the full amperage
> through the 20A switches or should the switches trip relays to handle the
> larger current?
> Not that I'm doing the wiring now but it's something I've wondered about
> for a long time.
>
> Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, |
and open barrel
At 12:54 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks, Bob :-)
>
>I would have used insulated terminals, but they don't make faston
>insulated terminals for 8AWG.
8AWG is too large for fast-on. I don't recommend this
technology for anything larger than 12AWG/20A in airplanes.
The largest fuse/wire combo I'd recommend on a fuse-block
is 15Amps/14AWG. This is a de-rating thing to accommodate
the aircraft environs.
> I already have the wire, so need to go with what they make,
> uninsulated open barrel faston receptacles with separate ears for
> wire and insulation. I've seen the open barrel crimpers with
> butt-cheek pockets, but I don't have very many of these
> connections, so I'm thinking I could use my cheapo GB crimper. It
> only goes down to 10awg, but since it's not a cycling crimper, it
> might work. Or I could bend the tabs over individually using a
> pair of pliers.
Where are you needing to put an 8AWG to a fast-on tab? 8AWG
implies loads upwards of 40A. I'd stay in threaded fastener
and ring terminal world for this much current.
>Another issue I have is figuring out which end goes where with the
>Crimpaster for PIDG terminals. The left side of the tool have dies
>shaped like flying saucers and are coded with numbers and colors for
>size. The right side ones are more elliptical. The right side also
>is a little narrower than the left. So the terminal sticks out the
>left side and the wire goes in from the right?
This is explained in the last panel of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, and open |
barrel
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> Where are you needing to put an 8AWG to a fast-on tab? 8AWG
> implies loads upwards of 40A.
Sonex plans show using 8AWG for the power distribution circuit. I have a Jabiru
3300 that puts out between 13A and 20A, depending on which set of their numbers
you use.
The two alternator leads end in female fastons. Can't see the gauge, but they're
a little bigger compared to a piece of 12awg wire with insulation when held
next to it.
The voltage regulator has 6 wires, all with faston terminals. The size of these
wires are also covered, but they look to be about the same size as my 12AWG wire.
So I'm thinking it would be best to get 12AWG for this circuit and use fastons.
It would be ~3' between the filter capacitor and my main bus, both of which have
posts. Would 10AWG be better for this section?
> This is explained in the last panel of:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
I saw this in that article:
As a general rule, tools with unsymetrical dies will have a smaller, closed-die
cross section on the wire grip side.
which sounds like it would apply to the Crimpmaster.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270282#270282
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi!
I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current posts,
it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The Z diagrams
show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In my case,
seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil negative
wire be connected?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
It probably drives a light to tell you that the contactor is closed. This
can be helpful to prevent starter damage.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring
Hi!
I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current
posts, it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The
Z diagrams show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In
my case, seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil
negative wire be connected?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.p
df
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
Hi Dan,
Take a look at how the switch is wired. Most likely it connects the
wire to the contactor to ground. In this case, the red wire can be
connected directly to the large terminal that goes to the battery.
Connect the black wire to the lead to the switch. You don't need the
diode when using the EV200.
If the switch connects the wire on the contactor to a bus (12V), then
the black wire would be connected to ground.
Bob W.
"messydeer" wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I've got a Tyco EV200 battery contactor. In addition to the two high current
posts, it has two small wires labelled coil positive and coil negative. The Z
diagrams show just one wire between the switch and battery contactor. In my case,
seems like this would be the coil positive. So where would the coil negative
wire be connected?
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270293#270293
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tyco_ev200_battery_contactor_wiring_664.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
Now Rotary Powered Alpine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwceNc2ydN8
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, but this is a battery contactor. Seems like what you're saying might work
for starter contactor, or am I missing something?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270306#270306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
You are not missing anything, I mis read the post. Sorry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring
Thanks, but this is a battery contactor. Seems like what you're saying might
work for starter contactor, or am I missing something?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270306#270306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Hi Dan,
Connect the positive coil wire to the big terminal on the EV200 that goes to the
battery.
Connect the negative coil wire to the master switch. When turned on, the master
switch will connect the negative coil wire to ground.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270411#270411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Al,
First of all, I heartily endorse OCBaker's remarks about the
AeroConnection book, as I think do most of us.
Second, as a short cut to some thinking, I made a habit of checking
with how the auto industry wired things - you know if they had a device too
rich in current to switch alone, they used relays and the same principle
applies. I have never (well once) had to change a car relay since 1948 (and
it was corroded) so I guess my aircraft device (homebuilt) could stand it.
Bosch relays seem very reliable.
Just an idea,
Ferg
Europa A064 wiring wiring wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, guys :-)
2 here and 1 by private email makes the score 3-0 for doing this. So I'll crimp
a ring onto the red wire and hang it on the positive post of the contactor and
splice the black wire to my master switch.
There must be a reason they didn't wire the positive coil lead internally to the
post. This is the only contactor I've dealt with. Are they all like this?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270440#270440
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring |
Dan;
No not all relays or contactors are wired like this. They are all wired,
however, to serve whatever applications they are designed for. If you
purchase a contactor intended for aircraft master relay use then chances are
it will be wired with the internal jumper.
The EV200 you're referring to is not a battery contactor per se but a
generic device used in tens of thousands of different applications and wired
in many different ways. Use as an aircraft master relay is an
infinitesimally small percentage of their total sales and therefore the
design will not take that into account because it would limit some of the
other applications for which it is used. You have to understand how to wire
a device such as this (or any other) for the way your application uses it,
which is what others have explained. Positive to battery, negative through
switch to ground. The rationale is explained in "the book".
Following this list, asking questions, and reading "the book" will soon
result in a good understanding of the not so mysterious mysteries behind the
functioning of many things electrical. There are other ways of wiring this
relay to function in your application by the way, but the "standard accepted
aircraft practice" is as described by the three responses you refer to.
Good luck on the road to understanding. This is a great place to learn. P.S.
don't forget to support Matt's efforts via his annual fundraiser.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-
> list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 10:38 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactor Coil Wiring
>
>
> Thanks, guys :-)
>
> 2 here and 1 by private email makes the score 3-0 for doing this. So I'll
crimp a
> ring onto the red wire and hang it on the positive post of the contactor
and splice
> the black wire to my master switch.
>
> There must be a reason they didn't wire the positive coil lead internally
to the
> post. This is the only contactor I've dealt with. Are they all like this?
>
> --------
> Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Judson Porter <jdporter(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | magnetometer location |
I'm using 2 EFIS units and could connect both to the same magnetometer
but wanted to have backup. Is there any problem mounting them next to
each other side by side. Will they interfere or cross talk with each other?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimpmaster for insulated, non-insulated, |
and open barrel
At 05:47 PM 10/31/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > Where are you needing to put an 8AWG to a fast-on tab? 8AWG
> > implies loads upwards of 40A.
>
>
>Sonex plans show using 8AWG for the power distribution circuit. I
>have a Jabiru 3300 that puts out between 13A and 20A, depending on
>which set of their numbers you use.
>
>The two alternator leads end in female fastons. Can't see the gauge,
>but they're a little bigger compared to a piece of 12awg wire with
>insulation when held next to it.
>
>The voltage regulator has 6 wires, all with faston terminals. The
>size of these wires are also covered, but they look to be about the
>same size as my 12AWG wire.
>
>So I'm thinking it would be best to get 12AWG for this circuit and
>use fastons. It would be ~3' between the filter capacitor and my
>main bus, both of which have posts. Would 10AWG be better for this section?
20A is handled nicely on 12AWG wire which will
fit into a yellow PIDG faston.
>As a general rule, tools with unsymetrical dies will have a smaller,
>closed-die cross section on the wire grip side.
>
>which sounds like it would apply to the Crimpmaster.
Correct
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: magnetometer location |
At 11:59 AM 11/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>I'm using 2 EFIS units and could connect both to the same
>magnetometer but wanted to have backup. Is there any problem
>mounting them next to each other side by side. Will they interfere
>or cross talk with each other?
magnetometers don't interfere with each other but
their measurement accuracy can be polluted with
stray fields from current in wires and nearby
magnetic materials. At Beech we used to mount these
things out in the wing but located about 12" away
from wiring to the tip. Your strobe wiring is
magnetically compatible since all outbound electrons are
balanced by inbound electrons in the same bundle.
Note that the shield on the strobe wire has nothing
to do with the magnetics. The nav light wiring could
run close to the magnetometers if it were a twisted
pair that takes outbound and inbound electrons past
any point closer than say 12" to the magnetometer.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BNC and RG 174 |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit :
>
>
> At 05:34 AM 10/24/2009, you wrote:
>
> I found the article that speaks to adding BNC
> connectors to the ends of smaller diameter wires.
> It's at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58.html
Bob,
Thanks for retrieving the article.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
Put a scope on the tach gen output. The situation is the signal from the tach
gen goes to a 5.1 V zener diode, then to a comparator against a reference voltage
to generate a square wave.
Attached is the picture of the waveform at low rpm (approx 800). Note the spikes
in the wave. Also, the voltage is near the zener voltage so the zener never
gets driven into breakdown so that is why the unit has a flakey rpm reading
at low rpm.
So, would the waveform squaring circuit you posted in an earlier post work to square
this waveform? If so, I have 28 VDC available in the aircraft. I'd need
to use a 28-5 V converter chip to get the 5 VDC on the collector as you drew
it. Any suggestions for this?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270501#270501
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tach_gen_800_rpm_143.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
Forgot to mention that at full RPM (2400) the tach gen signal is a bit more than
40 v peak to peak.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270508#270508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Second, as a short cut to some thinking, I made a habit of checking
with how the auto industry wired things - you know if they had a device too
rich in current to switch alone, they used relays and the same principle
applies. I have never (well once) had to change a car relay since 1948 (and
it was corroded) so I guess my aircraft device (homebuilt) could stand it.
Bosch relays seem very reliable.
Just an idea,
An astute and accurate observation my friend. As a rule,
relays are considered to be some of the least reliable
devices in terms of failures per flight hour. Indeed
compared to transistors, capacitors and such, they are
way down on the totem pole.
So when you're working on a 200 ton ATC aircraft with
miles of wiring and tons of electro-whizzies that
get exercised 15 hrs a day for weeks at a time, one
minimizes the numbers of relays and picks them carefully.
Down-time on these aircraft is measured in thousands of
dollars per day.
In the automotive world, the cost of ownership and
magnitude of risk due to failure is much lower than
for complex aircraft. Light airplanes are certainly
higher risk but failure tolerant design can buffer
that risk.
Hence, relays need not be avoided where they make
sense. One doesn't want to put an ugly-beefy toggle
switch in right next to an ordinary 7 - 10A device
just to accommodate some heavier load. Relay buffering
is a good thing to consider . . . solid state relays
even better.
Fortunately for us, only things like pitot heat
(30A inrush), large landing lights (30-50A inrush)
and perhaps hydraulic pump motors (100A inrush)
are devices that give pause for extra attention.
Relays like this . . .
http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz
are designed and tested to survive under the hood
of an automobile. There are other examples in the same
family of products. They're made on totally automated
machines and are reasonably priced. Once
the system demands push much above 7A or offer
extra-ordinary inrush loads, a relay may be
an ingredient that fits your recipe for success
quite well.
Having said that, let's talk about any particular
situation where you think the relay is a potential
solution to a design goal. I about dropped my teeth
when I saw this picture the first time:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg
. . . and these were part of an electrically dependent
engine's ignition, fuel and controls system!
"One is good" does not morph into "21 is better."
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
Try this site for a better price ie $2.49 ea
_https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 09110121075049&catname=&qty=1&
item=11-2275_
(https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 09110121075049&catname=&qty=1&item=11-2275)
They have lots of other goodies also
Dick
In a message dated 11/1/2009 4:44:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
Second, as a short cut to some thinking, I made a habit of checking
with how the auto industry wired things - you know if they had a device too
rich in current to switch alone, they used relays and the same principle
applies. I have never (well once) had to change a car relay since 1948 (and
it was corroded) so I guess my aircraft device (homebuilt) could stand it.
Bosch relays seem very reliable.
Just an idea,
An astute and accurate observation my friend. As a rule,
relays are considered to be some of the least reliable
devices in terms of failures per flight hour. Indeed
compared to transistors, capacitors and such, they are
way down on the totem pole.
So when you're working on a 200 ton ATC aircraft with
miles of wiring and tons of electro-whizzies that
get exercised 15 hrs a day for weeks at a time, one
minimizes the numbers of relays and picks them carefully.
Down-time on these aircraft is measured in thousands of
dollars per day.
In the automotive world, the cost of ownership and
magnitude of risk due to failure is much lower than
for complex aircraft. Light airplanes are certainly
higher risk but failure tolerant design can buffer
that risk.
Hence, relays need not be avoided where they make
sense. One doesn't want to put an ugly-beefy toggle
switch in right next to an ordinary 7 - 10A device
just to accommodate some heavier load. Relay buffering
is a good thing to consider . . . solid state relays
even better.
Fortunately for us, only things like pitot heat
(30A inrush), large landing lights (30-50A inrush)
and perhaps hydraulic pump motors (100A inrush)
are devices that give pause for extra attention.
Relays like this . . .
_http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz_ (http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz)
are designed and tested to survive under the hood
of an automobile. There are other examples in the same
family of products. They're made on totally automated
machines and are reasonably priced. Once
the system demands push much above 7A or offer
extra-ordinary inrush loads, a relay may be
an ingredient that fits your recipe for success
quite well.
Having said that, let's talk about any particular
situation where you think the relay is a potential
solution to a design goal. I about dropped my teeth
when I saw this picture the first time:
_http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg
_ (http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg) . . . and
these were part of an electrically dependent
engine's ignition, fuel and controls system!
"One is good" does not morph into "21 is better."
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
Dick,
Thanks for the web link.....
David
----- Original Message -----
From: RGent1224(at)aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Relays etc
Try this site for a better price ie $2.49 ea
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 09110121075049&catname=&
qty=1&item=11-2275
They have lots of other goodies also
Dick
In a message dated 11/1/2009 4:44:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
Second, as a short cut to some thinking, I made a habit of
checking
with how the auto industry wired things - you know if they had a
device too
rich in current to switch alone, they used relays and the same
principle
applies. I have never (well once) had to change a car relay since
1948 (and
it was corroded) so I guess my aircraft device (homebuilt) could
stand it.
Bosch relays seem very reliable.
Just an idea,
An astute and accurate observation my friend. As a rule,
relays are considered to be some of the least reliable
devices in terms of failures per flight hour. Indeed
compared to transistors, capacitors and such, they are
way down on the totem pole.
So when you're working on a 200 ton ATC aircraft with
miles of wiring and tons of electro-whizzies that
get exercised 15 hrs a day for weeks at a time, one
minimizes the numbers of relays and picks them carefully.
Down-time on these aircraft is measured in thousands of
dollars per day.
In the automotive world, the cost of ownership and
magnitude of risk due to failure is much lower than
for complex aircraft. Light airplanes are certainly
higher risk but failure tolerant design can buffer
that risk.
Hence, relays need not be avoided where they make
sense. One doesn't want to put an ugly-beefy toggle
switch in right next to an ordinary 7 - 10A device
just to accommodate some heavier load. Relay buffering
is a good thing to consider . . . solid state relays
even better.
Fortunately for us, only things like pitot heat
(30A inrush), large landing lights (30-50A inrush)
and perhaps hydraulic pump motors (100A inrush)
are devices that give pause for extra attention.
Relays like this . . .
http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz
are designed and tested to survive under the hood
of an automobile. There are other examples in the same
family of products. They're made on totally automated
machines and are reasonably priced. Once
the system demands push much above 7A or offer
extra-ordinary inrush loads, a relay may be
an ingredient that fits your recipe for success
quite well.
Having said that, let's talk about any particular
situation where you think the relay is a potential
solution to a design goal. I about dropped my teeth
when I saw this picture the first time:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg
. . . and these were part of an electrically dependent
engine's ignition, fuel and controls system!
"One is good" does not morph into "21 is better."
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 04:59 PM 11/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>Put a scope on the tach gen output. The situation is the signal
>from the tach gen goes to a 5.1 V zener diode, then to a comparator
>against a reference voltage to generate a square wave.
>
>Attached is the picture of the waveform at low rpm (approx
>800). Note the spikes in the wave. Also, the voltage is near the
>zener voltage so the zener never gets driven into breakdown so that
>is why the unit has a flakey rpm reading at low
>rpm.
Agreed.
>So, would the waveform squaring circuit you posted in an earlier
>post work to square this waveform? If so, I have 28 VDC available
>in the aircraft. I'd need to use a 28-5 V converter chip to get the
>5 VDC on the collector as you drew it. Any suggestions for this?
I don't recall exactly what I sent you earlier
but this is probably similar.
Emacs!
This squaring circuit has a +0.6v threshold. Since
your 80mS, 5v trashy square wave goes above and below
ground, this will square it up nicely. The diode
keeps the negative excursions at high RPM from going
exceeding the zener breakdown threshold for the NPN
device.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | magnetometer location |
Judson,
I recently mounted two of the Dynon type next to each other behind the
panel. The dealer said you "might" get away with it. Way too much
interference with stuff. they were way off. I then set them on the top
of the panel just to see the difference - wow, right on! ok, get them
out of the panel and over to the wings or maybe behind the seat. to keep
them separate I mounted them in the stub wing area on each side of the
Legacy. you must be very careful they are mounted at the same angle as
the unit. Put them where they won't get wet and where you have access to
get at them for maintenance. It's all about maintenance.
I find they are sensitive to everything, e.g. spars, landing gear,
pliers in your pocket etc. Get or make an extension cable (easy) and
give them their own space. You'll enjoy the better accuracy.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Judson Porter
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: magnetometer location
I'm using 2 EFIS units and could connect both to the same magnetometer
but wanted to have backup. Is there any problem mounting them next to
each other side by side. Will they interfere or cross talk with each
other?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
David
No Problem that's what we're here for
Dick
In a message dated 11/1/2009 9:38:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
skywagon(at)charter.net writes:
Dick,
Thanks for the web link.....
David
----- Original Message -----
From: _RGent1224(at)aol.com_ (mailto:RGent1224(at)aol.com)
(mailto:aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Relays etc
Try this site for a better price ie $2.49 ea
_https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 09110121075049&catname=&qty=1&
item=11-2275_
(https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 09110121075049&catname=&qty=1&item=11-2275)
They have lots of other goodies also
Dick
In a message dated 11/1/2009 4:44:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com_ (mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) writes:
Second, as a short cut to some thinking, I made a habit of checking
with how the auto industry wired things - you know if they had a device too
rich in current to switch alone, they used relays and the same principle
applies. I have never (well once) had to change a car relay since 1948 (and
it was corroded) so I guess my aircraft device (homebuilt) could stand it.
Bosch relays seem very reliable.
Just an idea,
An astute and accurate observation my friend. As a rule,
relays are considered to be some of the least reliable
devices in terms of failures per flight hour. Indeed
compared to transistors, capacitors and such, they are
way down on the totem pole.
So when you're working on a 200 ton ATC aircraft with
miles of wiring and tons of electro-whizzies that
get exercised 15 hrs a day for weeks at a time, one
minimizes the numbers of relays and picks them carefully.
Down-time on these aircraft is measured in thousands of
dollars per day.
In the automotive world, the cost of ownership and
magnitude of risk due to failure is much lower than
for complex aircraft. Light airplanes are certainly
higher risk but failure tolerant design can buffer
that risk.
Hence, relays need not be avoided where they make
sense. One doesn't want to put an ugly-beefy toggle
switch in right next to an ordinary 7 - 10A device
just to accommodate some heavier load. Relay buffering
is a good thing to consider . . . solid state relays
even better.
Fortunately for us, only things like pitot heat
(30A inrush), large landing lights (30-50A inrush)
and perhaps hydraulic pump motors (100A inrush)
are devices that give pause for extra attention.
Relays like this . . .
_http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz_ (http://tinyurl.com/yhrqnkz)
are designed and tested to survive under the hood
of an automobile. There are other examples in the same
family of products. They're made on totally automated
machines and are reasonably priced. Once
the system demands push much above 7A or offer
extra-ordinary inrush loads, a relay may be
an ingredient that fits your recipe for success
quite well.
Having said that, let's talk about any particular
situation where you think the relay is a potential
solution to a design goal. I about dropped my teeth
when I saw this picture the first time:
_http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg
_ (http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/TooManyRelays.jpg) . . . and
these were part of an electrically dependent
engine's ignition, fuel and controls system!
"One is good" does not morph into "21 is better."
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
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(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
I can eliminate the comparator circuit if I get the output of the squaring circuit
to 5 VDC (TTL level). My thought is to use a Texas Instrument UA7805 Positive
Voltage Regulator and connect it to an available 12VDC source in the aircraft.
This should give me a stable 5.0 voltage source. At 5.0 VDC, the prior
squaring circuit diagram used a 4.7K resistor on the collector to limit the current
when the transistor is off. This should square off the signal and provide
a TTL level input to the EFIS system in the aircraft.
I can build this on a breadboard and test it in the lab and use a variable speed
power drill to rotate the tach gen.
If the above sounds reasonable, I'm off to order the parts from DigiKey. Thanks
for all the help and advice.
Craig
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270633#270633
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil White <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | GPS multiple feeds - how many? |
I am building an RV-10, and beginning to assemble and wire a panel. My
main GPS is a Garmin 396. I need it to feed my GRT EFIS, a Tru-Trak
autopilot, and a 406 MHz ELT. Will I have any problems with impedance
matching, or signal degradation if all 3 are fed from the GPS directly?
I don't know the input impedances of any of these fed boxes, or what
sort of power the Garmin can generate on its RS-232 feed.
I read the 2007 post about using a DB25 connector to facilitate the
multiple connections, but wonder if one needs a buffer or amplifier of
any sort to handle 3 outputs from one.
Phil in IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS multiple feeds - how many? |
| From: | Kenneth Melvin <melvinke(at)coho.net> |
My Garmin 395, and now a 496, drives a Trutrak autopilot, Argus 5000,
and automatic position reporting transmitter perfectly well, without
any consideration of impedance compatibility. Consultation with Garmin
tech support had indicated that these portable GPS units are expected
to drive three devices without degradation of signal. and I can
confirm that. I tied together the five pins of a DB9 connector as a
"NMEA-bus", and it works well.
Kenneth Melvin, N669TJ, RV-9A
On Nov 2, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Phil White wrote:
> >
>
> I am building an RV-10, and beginning to assemble and wire a panel.
> My main GPS is a Garmin 396. I need it to feed my GRT EFIS, a Tru-
> Trak autopilot, and a 406 MHz ELT. Will I have any problems with
> impedance matching, or signal degradation if all 3 are fed from the
> GPS directly? I don't know the input impedances of any of these fed
> boxes, or what sort of power the Garmin can generate on its RS-232
> feed.
> I read the 2007 post about using a DB25 connector to facilitate
> the multiple connections, but wonder if one needs a buffer or
> amplifier of any sort to handle 3 outputs from one.
> Phil in IL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | November List Fund Raiser |
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for
the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes
a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will
instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month!
Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
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Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
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The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com" <gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com> |
Att'n: 'Lectric Bob:
You mentioned ". . . solid state relays even better."
I recall some time ago that you mentioned that you might design, build, market
solid state relays. Is that still a possibility for the future?
Gordon smith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270760#270760
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS multiple feeds - how many? |
I have a 396 (not in the '10) and all those other components but I can't
answer your question.
It occurs to me that a cost effective solution may be to simply add a
$150 external GPS from GRT. It can drive at least the EFIS and the AP.
And it would be permanently mounted like the EFIS and TT though I'm
sure you are planning to 'permanently' mount the 396.
Bill "just finishing up the panel and going back to fiberglass" Watson
RV10 40605
Phil White wrote:
>
> I am building an RV-10, and beginning to assemble and wire a panel.
> My main GPS is a Garmin 396. I need it to feed my GRT EFIS, a
> Tru-Trak autopilot, and a 406 MHz ELT. Will I have any problems with
> impedance matching, or signal degradation if all 3 are fed from the
> GPS directly? I don't know the input impedances of any of these fed
> boxes, or what sort of power the Garmin can generate on its RS-232 feed.
> I read the 2007 post about using a DB25 connector to facilitate the
> multiple connections, but wonder if one needs a buffer or amplifier of
> any sort to handle 3 outputs from one.
> Phil in IL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 04:18 PM 11/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>I can eliminate the comparator circuit if I get the output of the
>squaring circuit to 5 VDC (TTL level). My thought is to use a Texas
>Instrument UA7805 Positive Voltage Regulator and connect it to an
>available 12VDC source in the aircraft. This should give me a
>stable 5.0 voltage source. At 5.0 VDC, the prior squaring circuit
>diagram used a 4.7K resistor on the collector to limit the current
>when the transistor is off. This should square off the signal and
>provide a TTL level input to the EFIS system in the aircraft.
>
>I can build this on a breadboard and test it in the lab and use a
>variable speed power drill to rotate the tach gen.
>
>If the above sounds reasonable, I'm off to order the parts from
>DigiKey. Thanks for all the help and advice.
Okay, how about this?
Emacs!
How "square" does the signal need to be? If you're driving the
"off the shelf" input to some tachometer originally designed to
attach to a p-lead or some other transducer, the tach should
take care of its own "squaring" internally. It may be that all
you need is to "clean" up the waveform to eliminate bumps and
warts on transitions that can be interpreted as "extra
edges".
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:12 AM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Att'n: 'Lectric Bob:
>You mentioned ". . . solid state relays even better."
>I recall some time ago that you mentioned that you might design,
>build, market solid state relays. Is that still a possibility for the future?
>Gordon smith
Absolutely. That design is done and tooled. At
the moment, I don't have a production facility
free. We're still knee deep in house remodeling
and shuffling of furniture between four locations.
The goal now is to have the kids in my Wichita
house over the Thanksgiving week. Give them a
few weeks to get "settled in" and I'll be training
them to take over the AeroElectric Connection
production and order fulfillment.
That will let me spend 100% of my time on development
of about a dozen new products. Here's the preliminary
data on a solid state relay.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9030/
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | What is the SD-8's regulator doing when not being used |
Hi Bob,
With the plane in a cruise configuration and 'Aux Alt' switch 'Off', is the
regulator sinking all the power that the SD-8 is producing?
Thanks,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is the SD-8's regulator doing when not being |
used
Hi /\/elson
Since there's no current flowing through the regulator, my guess is
that it's not doing anything... Converting the open-circuit voltage of
the SD-8 to 13.8V (or whatever yours is set to) doesn't dissipate any
energy until the current starts to flow.
Etienne
On 03 Nov 2009, at 7:40 PM, David E. Nelson wrote:
> >
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> With the plane in a cruise configuration and 'Aux Alt' switch 'Off',
> is the regulator sinking all the power that the SD-8 is producing?
>
> Thanks,
> /\/elson
>
> ~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any
> spring. ~~
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is the SD-8's regulator doing when not being |
used
At 12:29 PM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi /\/elson
>
>Since there's no current flowing through the regulator, my guess is
>that it's not doing anything... Converting the open-circuit voltage of
>the SD-8 to 13.8V (or whatever yours is set to) doesn't dissipate any
>energy until the current starts to flow.
>
>Etienne
Correct.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is the SD-8's regulator doing when not being |
used
Thank you.
/\/elson
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 12:29 PM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi /\/elson
>>
>> Since there's no current flowing through the regulator, my guess is
>> that it's not doing anything... Converting the open-circuit voltage of
>> the SD-8 to 13.8V (or whatever yours is set to) doesn't dissipate any
>> energy until the current starts to flow.
>>
>> Etienne
>
> Correct.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
In that case, I'll just run the output into the comparator circuit as the signal
input to the comparator goes to this:
signal in O-------
|
>
|
O---------O------> to comparator
| |
> ---
50K |
| |
gnd gnd
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270874#270874
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
Well that got messed up when it posted! Basically, signal in goes to a voltage
divider of 1K resistor and 50K resistor with a 5.1V Zener in parallel with the
50K resistor. The output goes to the comparator. Output of the comparator
goes to the EFIS as a TTL level signal.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270875#270875
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jabiru regulator wiring and 2nd ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi!
I am mounting my filter capacitor and alt disconnect relay on the cool side of
the firewall. Voltage regulator and battery would be FWF. One alternator lead
would go through the firewall to the COM terminal of the alt disconnect relay.
From the regulator, one ltblu wire, the red wire, and the yel wire would go
through the firewall to the filter capacitor. From the filter capacitor, there
would be one wire come back through the firewall to the starter contactor. This
is how I'd planned it a few months ago. The only changes were to downsize the
wires.
But today, I ran across the following on the US Jabiru website:
We suggest keeping the red and yellow wires ahead of the firewall. We run them
directly but separately to the battery.
This differs from how I have it, since my red and yellow wires are not kept fwf.
And they are not run directly to the battery, but go first to the filter capacitor,
starter contactor, battery contactor and then to the battery. Is there
any problem doing it how I have it?
I also noticed in the Z drawings with the Jabiru regulator, Bob shows two grounds,
one from the black wire and another drawn between the voltage regulator box
to the firewall. I'm wondering if this ground drawing should be deleted. The
voltage regulator metal case certainly contacts the firewall, fwiw.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270882#270882
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dans_jab_3300_alternator_and_regulator_wiring_505.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cherokee" <mycherokee(at)googleam.com> |
| Subject: | MaxPulse and MaxDim |
Hey list members. Just thought I would let you all know that we
completed our installation of the MaxPulse and MaxDim units in our 150,
4 months ago now. These things run cool and are a dream to install.
These correct so many problems we encounter as aircraft owners. Like
replacing the rheostats or the big dual dimmer that costs $1200 from
Cessna. Yikes.
You can see these at www.maxpulsemaxdim.com .
I see another member is gathering a group together for a special buy on
the MaxDim, I think I will join in that effort for our other Cub.
Mark
Eagle River, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is the type of this pin? |
| From: | "johnnyblame" <johnnyblame(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Overtorque
I read your post. In your post u show one pin it is push to on pin.
It use in the some electronics component.
The function of this pin is to set and reset circuit.
--------
r4
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270910#270910
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
Yeah, but . . .
If you study the dynamics of the circuit with the transistor,
it's "active" window is only a few hundred millivolts wide defined
by the signal level where the transistor first starts to conduct
until it is saturated. Only "glitches" that exist within that widow
are transferred through . . . with gain.
A straight divider/zener network has an active window of
about 5 volts but no gain. None the less, the "filtering"
feature we're looking for is degraded. I'm not saying that
it won't work . . . give it a try. But you may find that
the little extra gain and tightening of the window to
be useful and easy to do. By the way, since your signal
of interest goes below ground, the bottom resistor in the
schematic you propose is probably not necessary.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 08:19 PM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>Well that got messed up when it posted! Basically, signal in goes
>to a voltage divider of 1K resistor and 50K resistor with a 5.1V
>Zener in parallel with the 50K resistor. The output goes to the
>comparator. Output of the comparator goes to the EFIS as a TTL level signal.
OH . . . you mean there are other electro-whizzies
posed between our pre-conditioning circuit and the
input to your EFIS?
I thought we were talking about the whole thing.
Perhaps you need to sketch the whole system for
me, I've been seeing it through a gray matter "knothole".
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru regulator wiring and 2nd ground |
At 08:54 PM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi!
>
>I am mounting my filter capacitor and alt disconnect relay on the
>cool side of the firewall. Voltage regulator and battery would be
>FWF. One alternator lead would go through the firewall to the COM
>terminal of the alt disconnect relay. From the regulator, one ltblu
>wire, the red wire, and the yel wire would go through the firewall
>to the filter capacitor. From the filter capacitor, there would be
>one wire come back through the firewall to the starter contactor.
>This is how I'd planned it a few months ago. The only changes were
>to downsize the wires.
>
>But today, I ran across the following on the US Jabiru website:
>
>We suggest keeping the red and yellow wires ahead of the
>firewall. We run them directly but separately to the battery.
>
>This differs from how I have it, since my red and yellow wires are
>not kept fwf. And they are not run directly to the battery, but go
>first to the filter capacitor, starter contactor, battery contactor
>and then to the battery. Is there any problem doing it how I have it?
>
>
>I also noticed in the Z drawings with the Jabiru regulator, Bob
>shows two grounds, one from the black wire and another drawn between
>the voltage regulator box to the firewall. I'm wondering if this
>ground drawing should be deleted.
It depends on the specific regulators . . . some regulators
require an electrical case ground for proper function
so I always show it . . . if the critter is mounted to your
conductive firewall, then it IS grounded whether electrically
necessary or not.
> The voltage regulator metal case certainly contacts the firewall, fwiw.
Yes . . . that's what that symbol is about.
You're mixing multiple recipes for success together
with predicable consternation. There's no good reason to
have just the relay and filter capacitor on the
cockpit side of the firewall. Good practice calls
for minimizing firewall penetrations.
If it were my airplane, I'd put all the alternator
stuff forward of the firewall and bring a
minimum of power distribution and control wires
through to the cockpit.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru regulator wiring and 2nd ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> You're mixing multiple recipes for success together
> with predicable consternation. There's no good reason to
> have just the relay and filter capacitor on the
> cockpit side of the firewall. Good practice calls
> for minimizing firewall penetrations.
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd put all the alternator
> stuff forward of the firewall and bring a
> minimum of power distribution and control wires
> through to the cockpit.
I could certainly do that. The main reason I planned on putting them in the cabin
was because that's where the documentation for the relay and capacitor said
to put them. "Regulator and capacitor should be mounted in a cool place and should
be mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall" The diagram shows the battery,
alt disconnect relay, capacitor and voltage regulator behind the firewall.
Of these, only the battery has a fixed position fwf in a Sonex. I had planned
to put the regulator fwf mainly because that's where Jabiru has it.
As it's drawn now in my schematic, I have 5 wires going through the firewall between
the regulator, relay, and capacitor. Moving the regulator into the cabin
would cut that down to 3: the 2 alternator leads and the single wire from the
capacitor to the starter contactor.
Or I could mount all of these components fwf, which would eliminate all the firewall
penetrations shown and add just the 22awg alt relay coil wire going fwf.
It sounds like this latter way is how you would do it, which means less firewall
penetrations would trump having these components in the cooler cabin.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270967#270967
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/504_500_rev_f_498.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru regulator wiring and 2nd ground |
>
>
>It sounds like this latter way is how you would do it, which means
>less firewall penetrations would trump having these components in
>the cooler cabin.
Virtually everybody would like to have their pride-n-joy
products mounted in the most benign location possible
aboard the airplane . . . lower risk. At the same time,
except for direct radiation from hot exhaust stacks, the
environment under the cowl isn't all that bad either.
The capacitor and relay are rated for temperatures
greater than what's expected under the cowl . . . so
make the installation clean and simple as opposed to
"cooler".
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru regulator wiring and 2nd ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Bob :-)
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271065#271065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
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Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
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Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
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Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com" <gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob wrote
"That will let me spend 100% of my time on development
of about a dozen new products. Here's the preliminary
data on a solid state relay."
Might one of these products be the small, light, low cost, wing leveler discussed
as part of "The Right Stuff" and "The Weak Link" in July 2009?
Gordon smith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271175#271175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:08 AM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob wrote
>"That will let me spend 100% of my time on development
>of about a dozen new products. Here's the preliminary
>data on a solid state relay."
>
>Might one of these products be the small, light, low cost, wing
>leveler discussed as part of "The Right Stuff" and "The Weak Link"
>in July 2009?
That's on the list but necessarily rather far down.
The up-front development $time$ is significant. The
manufacture calls for a significant quantity of out-
sourced materials. Further, there ARE already
very capable suppliers of similar products on the
market. A noteworthy supplier is "Mr. Autopilot"
in the person of Jim Younkin. I could not pick a
more worthy competitor.
I'll need access to a flight test airframe too.
I've considered buying or leasing something with
a prop and wings on it for that purpose. In any
case, I still think it's a righteous project with
a lot of potential. I need to make sure that any
investment WE make (my kids are being groomed to
take over AEC business interests) has a high
probability for return on investment.
In the mean time . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics cooling fan revisited |
-In researching the Aeroelectric-list archives for cooling fans, I-foun
d several interesting posts.
-
-I-copied and pasted-the-post below-from 2003. When I followed-
Bob's link to the fan at MPJA.com,-it was no longer there.-The one Bob
recommended- (60 cfm and 2 amps)seems like too much when compared to TSO'
d fans like the Cyclone-21 (21-cfm and 0.19 amp) or Ameriking (26-cfm
-and-0.6 amp).
If Bob is reading, what would you suggest today?
-
Is there a specific alternative fan that would be appropriate to cool the t
wo radios in my OBAM plane besides the-T$O's fans made for certified plan
es?
Or how to house the suggested computer fans?
Have such computer fans-been used successfully notwithstanding Bob's doub
ts as to their suitability?
-
Thanks for the list,
Eric Schlanser--
-
-
Match:
#83
Message:
#15485
Date:
Dec 08, 2003
From:
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Subject:
Re: cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR
>
>There's been some talk about cooling fans, and people have mentioned 8-12
>bucks (I think).- No need to spend that much:
>
>$1 each:- http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/evcafan80bl.html
>
>Or, for quieter, ball bearing, $4.99 each:
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/uc001btc.html
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/80l1a.html
-- Air movers for avionics need characteristics
-- conducive to moving air against quite a bit
-- of back pressure. The relatively small diameter
-- hoses are probably too much for a computer cooling
-- fan that almost never has to move air though
-- tiny spaces.
-- Most of the avionics cooling fans I've seen
-- used centrifugal blowers or vane axial blowers.
-- If I were going to hammer something together
-- for avionics cooling, I'd start with a product
-- like
-- http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=14495+FN
-- This critter draws 2A and is rated at 60 cfm
-- (at no pressure). You could build a plenum onto
-- its output snoot for attaching cooling hoses.
-- Bob . . .
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics cooling fan revisited |
Eric,
I just perused the site and went to the fans directory. apparently
technology is moving forward. there are a number of adaptable 12/24 volt
blowers (look like leaf blowers) that draw < 1 amp and are reasonably
priced too.
You don't get much for a dollar today, but I saw some from $5-10.
Glenn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Schlanser
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling fan revisited
In researching the Aeroelectric-list archives for cooling fans, I found
several interesting posts.
I copied and pasted the post below from 2003. When I followed Bob's
link to the fan at MPJA.com, it was no longer there. The one Bob
recommended (60 cfm and 2 amps)seems like too much when compared to
TSO'd fans like the Cyclone-21 (21 cfm and 0.19 amp) or Ameriking (26
cfm and 0.6 amp).
If Bob is reading, what would you suggest today?
Is there a specific alternative fan that would be appropriate to cool
the two radios in my OBAM plane besides the T$O's fans made for
certified planes?
Or how to house the suggested computer fans?
Have such computer fans been used successfully notwithstanding Bob's
doubts as to their suitability?
Thanks for the list,
Eric Schlanser
Match:
#83
Message:
#15485
Date:
Dec 08, 2003
From:
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Subject:
Re: cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR
<http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=24759583?KE
Y
S=cooling_fan?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=83?SERIAL=064059231
52?SHOW
BUTTONS=NO>
>
>There's been some talk about cooling fans, and people have
mentioned 8-12
>bucks (I think). No need to spend that much:
>
>$1 each: http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/evcafan80bl.html
>
>Or, for quieter, ball bearing, $4.99 each:
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/uc001btc.html
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/80l1a.html
Air movers for avionics need characteristics
conducive to moving air against quite a bit
of back pressure. The relatively small diameter
hoses are probably too much for a computer cooling
fan that almost never has to move air though
tiny spaces.
Most of the avionics cooling fans I've seen
used centrifugal blowers or vane axial blowers.
If I were going to hammer something together
for avionics cooling, I'd start with a product
like
http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=14495+FN
This critter draws 2A and is rated at 60 cfm
(at no pressure). You could build a plenum onto
its output snoot for attaching cooling hoses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
Here is the circuit that is the current interface between the tach gen and the
EFIS tach input. It was originally designed to interface a Hall sensor with a
10 V p-p input. The 50K resistor in parallel with the zener was to provide a
current path (so I am told) should a p-lead be used instead of the Hall sensor.
My thought was to put the circuit you have proposed in the location as shown in
the attached document (I could not scan to a .jpg and the .bmp was way too big).
Thanks,
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271250#271250
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tach_interface_146.doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 03:38 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>Here is the circuit that is the current interface between the tach
>gen and the EFIS tach input. It was originally designed to
>interface a Hall sensor with a 10 V p-p input. The 50K resistor in
>parallel with the zener was to provide a current path (so I am told)
>should a p-lead be used instead of the Hall sensor.
>
>My thought was to put the circuit you have proposed in the location
>as shown in the attached document (I could not scan to a .jpg and
>the .bmp was way too big).
Okay. I think your 'trash' is coming from artifacts
on the wave-form that are a result of the combination
of the two phases of a 3-phase generator. These seem
to reside some millivolts away from ground . . . so
your results are bound to improve if you move your
comparator's decision-point as close to ground as
possible.
Try the simple transistor-zener circuit without
the comparator. The transistor's "decision point"
is in the .5 to .7 volt range as a function of
Vbe characteristics of b-e junction.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jabiru Magneto Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello!
The Jabiru manual doesn't say much about the mag wiring. On each of my coils, there
is a 1/4" faston tab. I have 20awg shielded wire for each ignition. I've
read through the Book and understand when the mags are ungrounded, they are hot.
Flipping the mag switch off completes the ground ground and kills the mag.
I've attached a doc that shows what I understand and what I don't. Quotes are from
Bob's book in Note 3 of the Z appendix, I believe:
1. "Attach the shield to one and only one switch terminal at the cockpit end..."
How do I do this? I can strip off the outer insulation and expose the braided shield.
For a 20awg wire, using a 16awg stripper is about right. That's about as
far as my brain will take me. Seems like I would splice the outer braid to a
wire, and connect that wire via faston to terminal #2 of the switch. Another
faston would go on the inner wire and connect to terminal #3. I just don't know
how.
2. "Attach the shield to engine ground at the magneto end."
The drawing shows shield going to one spot on the ignition and the inner wire going
to another. I have just the faston tab of the coil. How is this done?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271275#271275
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dans_magneto_wiring_141.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Magneto Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
I also just read this searching through the Yahoo Jab group:
"...at the switch end,
you should connect both L and R shield grounds together (but not to
anything else but the switch), for redundancy, in case of a break in
one of the ground leads, you can still shut off the engine. This
should not cause a ground loop/noise problem..."
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271277#271277
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Magneto Wiring |
At 06:48 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hello!
>
>The Jabiru manual doesn't say much about the mag wiring. On each of
>my coils, there is a 1/4" faston tab. I have 20awg shielded wire for
>each ignition. I've read through the Book and understand when the
>mags are ungrounded, they are hot. Flipping the mag switch off
>completes the ground ground and kills the mag.
>
>I've attached a doc that shows what I understand and what I don't.
>Quotes are from Bob's book in Note 3 of the Z appendix, I believe:
>
>1. "Attach the shield to one and only one switch terminal at the
>cockpit end..."
>
>How do I do this? I can strip off the outer insulation and expose
>the braided shield. For a 20awg wire, using a 16awg stripper is
>about right. That's about as far as my brain will take me. Seems
>like I would splice the outer braid to a wire, and connect that wire
>via faston to terminal #2 of the switch. Another faston would go on
>the inner wire and connect to terminal #3. I just don't know how.
>
>2. "Attach the shield to engine ground at the magneto end."
>
>The drawing shows shield going to one spot on the ignition and the
>inner wire going to another. I have just the faston tab of the coil.
>How is this done?
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
Put faston female on engine end of center conductor
and install on magneto coil tab. Put ring terminal on
engine end shield and take to crankcase ground via
mounting bolt (on ignition coil?). If necessary, slice
onto the shield to extend to nearest practical mounting
bolt. NOTE "mounting bolt" means some fastener that holds
detail parts and/or accessories on the engine. This does
not mean any bolt with a critical torque value
for the maintenance of structural integrity. I
once had a guy remove a head-bolt to "ground" some
wire to his engine!
Attach other end of shielded wire to switch. Prepare
ends the same way. Install fast-on or ring terminals
as appropriate. Connect so that the wire and shield
are connected to each other when the ignition switch
is closed (OFF).
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for HID |
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=62495
Read the 2nd 1/2 of this thread.
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271374#271374
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Magneto Wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, for running down that article, Bob. Not sure how I missed it. Nice, easy
to understand article.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271393#271393
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Magneto Wiring |
At 06:56 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>
>I also just read this searching through the Yahoo Jab group:
>
>"...at the switch end,
>you should connect both L and R shield grounds together (but not to
>anything else but the switch), for redundancy, in case of a break in
>one of the ground leads, you can still shut off the engine. This
>should not cause a ground loop/noise problem..."
This refers to the O-L-R-B-S key-switch and is not
applicable to the use of toggles and push-button.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
I have assumes that the windings are Y-wound and not delta. The connector for
the unit only has three pins and they are labeled a, b, and c.
I am assuming by your comment that we are using two phases that we have picked
up the signal improperly from the tach gen itself. However, when we tried to
get a signal from one pin with the case as ground reference, we had no signal
at all.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271542#271542
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
At 06:57 AM 11/7/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob:
>
>I have assumes that the windings are Y-wound and not delta. The
>connector for the unit only has three pins and they are labeled a, b, and c.
>
>I am assuming by your comment that we are using two phases that we
>have picked up the signal improperly from the tach gen
>itself. However, when we tried to get a signal from one pin with
>the case as ground reference, we had no signal at all.
Understand . . . and it's what I would have expected.
So there's no "improper" connection, only a "less
than ideal" connection.
The design goal is to craft a squaring circuit that
has the narrowest window of uncertainty that is
centered in the area of the waveform least likely
to be problematic.
What are the specs for signal input to your engine
monitor? Does the square wave need to be of any
particular "sqareness" i.e. rate of change or
simply "clean" and free of extraneous changes
in direction.
If I were designing such an instrument, I'd
be interested only in a clean representation
of period be it a sine wave, pulse, trapezoid,
etc . . . all I'm doing is counting transitions
from highest to lowest voltage. I'd do all of
my "squaring" internally to accommodate the
needs of the electronics. So I'm betting that
if you get a clean 5v signal of any shape . . .
the electronics will be happy.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GNS 530 Internal Battery |
| From: | "joburke" <joe(at)burkes.org> |
Did you ever find a source for this information? I'm looking for the same thing.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271555#271555
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: p-lead signal conditioning or tach gen usage |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
I wanted to repost a circuit that I built for an Aeroelectric lister for his problem
of interfacing two different tach generators with one tachometer. This is
a simple divide by two and signal conditioner that might prove useful in these,
or related efforts.
I have PCBs for this and can build up one for little money.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271690#271690
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tacho_divider_141.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tachodividerschematic_108.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Bob
I have a wire size question. I use your 2 bat 2 alt all electric configuation
for my Glasair. I use circuit breakers on a panel on the right side of the panel.
The problem is that the person that helped me wire the airplane ran #4 wire
from the firewall pass through and attached to the breaker panel. These are
very stiff ( not welding cable) and put stress on the connections to the breakers.
I would like to terminate the 2 #4 wires on the sidewall on 2 separate
studs and from each of these two studs run 2 #10 wire (about 6 to 10 inches)to
each end of the strap connecting the hot side of the breakers on each of the
two circuits. I hope this is clear. My question is; would 2 #10 wire be sufficient
to replace for a short run the #4 wires?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 02:09 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>Hello Bob
>I have a wire size question. I use your 2 bat 2 alt all electric
>configuation for my Glasair. I use circuit breakers on a panel on
>the right side of the panel. The problem is that the person that
>helped me wire the airplane ran #4 wire from the firewall pass
>through and attached to the breaker panel. These are very stiff (
>not welding cable) and put stress on the connections to the
>breakers. I would like to terminate the 2 #4 wires on the sidewall
>on 2 separate studs and from each of these two studs run 2 #10 wire
>(about 6 to 10 inches)to each end of the strap connecting the hot
>side of the breakers on each of the two circuits. I hope this is
>clear. My question is; would 2 #10 wire be sufficient to replace
>for a short run the #4 wires?
I'd really rather you didn't have all this "hardware"
in the system. How about replacing the 4AWG tefzel with
a 6AWG welding cable which will be MUCH easier to work
with and entirely adequate for alternator outputs of
60A. I'm presuming that your alternator is no larger
than this. Alternatively, a single chunk of 4AWG welding
cable would be MUCH preferred.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Bob
Your solution is OK and doable. I just worry about the weight of the wire on the
copper tie strip on the breakers. I could figure a support for the much more
flexible wire.
I am running a pad mount 20 amp and a belt driven 40 amp alternators. Can you
make up the wires with ends if I provide the length and connector sizes?
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Sun, November 8, 2009 3:43:57 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire size
At 02:09 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
> Hello Bob
> I have a wire size question. I use your 2 bat 2 alt all electric configuation
for my Glasair. I use circuit breakers on a panel on the right side of the
panel. The problem is that the person that helped me wire the airplane ran #4
wire from the firewall pass through and attached to the breaker panel. These
are very stiff ( not welding cable) and put stress on the connections to the
breakers. I would like to terminate the 2 #4 wires on the sidewall on 2 separate
studs and from each of these two studs run 2 #10 wire (about 6 to 10 inches)to
each end of the strap connecting the hot side of the breakers on each of
the two circuits. I hope this is clear. My question is; would 2 #10 wire be
sufficient to replace for a short run the #4 wires?
I'd really rather you didn't have all this "hardware"
in the system. How about replacing the 4AWG tefzel with
a 6AWG welding cable which will be MUCH easier to work
with and entirely adequate for alternator outputs of
60A. I'm presuming that your alternator is no larger
than this. Alternatively, a single chunk of 4AWG welding
cable would be MUCH preferred.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
If you walk into your local welding supply shop & tell 'em you need x
feet of #6 and y crimp-on lugs for the wire with z stud size, then ask
if they know anyone who might rent you a crimper, odds are good that
someone at the counter will go get a crimper out of stock & do it for
you on the spot.
Charlie
James Robinson wrote:
> Hi Bob
> Your solution is OK and doable. I just worry about the weight of the
> wire on the copper tie strip on the breakers. I could figure a
> support for the much more flexible wire.
> I am running a pad mount 20 amp and a belt driven 40 amp alternators.
> Can you make up the wires with ends if I provide the length and
> connector sizes?
> Jim
> James Robinson
> Glasair lll N79R
> Spanish Fork UT U77
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, November 8, 2009 3:43:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: wire size
>
> >
>
> At 02:09 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
> > Hello Bob
> > I have a wire size question. I use your 2 bat 2 alt all electric
> configuation for my Glasair. I use circuit breakers on a panel on the
> right side of the panel. The problem is that the person that helped
> me wire the airplane ran #4 wire from the firewall pass through and
> attached to the breaker panel. These are very stiff ( not welding
> cable) and put stress on the connections to the breakers. I would
> like to terminate the 2 #4 wires on the sidewall on 2 separate studs
> and from each of these two studs run 2 #10 wire (about 6 to 10
> inches)to each end of the strap connecting the hot side of the
> breakers on each of the two circuits. I hope this is clear. My
> question is; would 2 #10 wire be sufficient to replace for a short run
> the #4 wires?
>
> I'd really rather you didn't have all this "hardware"
> in the system. How about replacing the 4AWG tefzel with
> a 6AWG welding cable which will be MUCH easier to work
> with and entirely adequate for alternator outputs of
> 60A. I'm presuming that your alternator is no larger
> than this. Alternatively, a single chunk of 4AWG welding
> cable would be MUCH preferred.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Charlie
I have a welding shop around the corner. I'll check with them.
Jim
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sun, November 8, 2009 4:50:56 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire size
If you walk into your local welding supply shop & tell 'em you need x feet of #6
and y crimp-on lugs for the wire with z stud size, then ask if they know anyone
who might rent you a crimper, odds are good that someone at the counter will
go get a crimper out of stock & do it for you on the spot.
Charlie
James Robinson wrote:
> Hi Bob
> Your solution is OK and doable. I just worry about the weight of the wire on
the copper tie strip on the breakers. I could figure a support for the much
more flexible wire.
> I am running a pad mount 20 amp and a belt driven 40 amp alternators. Can you
make up the wires with ends if I provide the length and connector sizes?
> Jim
> James Robinson
> Glasair lll N79R
> Spanish Fork UT U77
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, November 8, 2009 3:43:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: wire size
>
>
> At 02:09 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
> > Hello Bob
> > I have a wire size question. I use your 2 bat 2 alt all electric configuation
for my Glasair. I use circuit breakers on a panel on the right side of the
panel. The problem is that the person that helped me wire the airplane ran
#4 wire from the firewall pass through and attached to the breaker panel. These
are very stiff ( not welding cable) and put stress on the connections to the
breakers. I would like to terminate the 2 #4 wires on the sidewall on 2 separate
studs and from each of these two studs run 2 #10 wire (about 6 to 10 inches)to
each end of the strap connecting the hot side of the breakers on each of
the two circuits. I hope this is clear. My question is; would 2 #10 wire be
sufficient to replace for a short run the #4 wires?
>
> I'd really rather you didn't have all this "hardware"
> in the system. How about replacing the 4AWG tefzel with
> a 6AWG welding cable which will be MUCH easier to work
> with and entirely adequate for alternator outputs of
> 60A. I'm presuming that your alternator is no larger
> than this. Alternatively, a single chunk of 4AWG welding
> cable would be MUCH preferred.
>
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Failure Detection and Annunciation question |
Bob,
Was reviewing your article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf
I want to annunciate the failure of a 12v scavenge pump to draw current.
You mention such a circuit being used on a heated pitot but I was wondering
if it mattered if the load was a pump motor? Full load would be
approximately 5 amps and it needs to be running whenever the engine is
running. I figured the LED would come on whenever I put power to the ECU
and Ignition and would quickly go out if the scavenge pump was pulling power
as it should. Thus, even if I "forgot" to flip the switch for the scavenge
pump, the LED would illuminate until I did AND the pump was pulling power.
Any problem with a motor as opposed to a resistance load? Any other things
I should consider?
Thanks.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Eggenfellner Turbo normalized 6 cyl.
Finishing up the wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
I would add to Charlie's experience that when I went through this process,
the guy in my local welding shop said he'd do my crimps for $10, or he'd
sell me a crimping die for the same price. It's a self gauging device you
can put on a bench or set on the floor and whack a couple times with a good
sized hammer. (Actually, you can gauge the crimps by ear as well or better
than by sight). Natch, I bought the die and have made a dozen crimps with
it and loaned it out to a couple of my cohorts as well. It's definitely
one of the more cost effective tool investments I've ever made.
A couple thoughts on technique: When set properly, the crimp is gas tight.
Needless to say, the individual strands of wire can't slide over each other
and you might as well have a solid copper bar in the crimp zone. This
makes the cable significantly less flexible adjacent to the crimp,
transitioning back to quite flexible a couple inches out from the terminal
barrel. If you need to make any sharp bends near the end of the installed
cable, it would be beneficial to have another set of hands to pre-bend the
cable as the crimp is being made.
The other thing is that since welding cable is not tinned like the Tefzel
is, after making the crimp I tinned the cut end of the cable for corrosion
proofing. Of course, I put heat shrink on the cable-barrel juncture as
well.
FYI, YMMV, etc, etc...
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire size
>
>
> If you walk into your local welding supply shop & tell 'em you need x
> feet of #6 and y crimp-on lugs for the wire with z stud size, then ask
> if they know anyone who might rent you a crimper, odds are good that
> someone at the counter will go get a crimper out of stock & do it for
> you on the spot.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> James Robinson wrote:
> > Hi Bob
> > Your solution is OK and doable. I just worry about the weight of the
> > wire on the copper tie strip on the breakers. I could figure a
> > support for the much more flexible wire.
> > I am running a pad mount 20 amp and a belt driven 40 amp alternators.
> > Can you make up the wires with ends if I provide the length and
> > connector sizes?
> > Jim
> > James Robinson
> > Glasair lll N79R
> > Spanish Fork UT U77
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GNS 530 Internal Battery |
No, I just dove in and replaced the battery. If you are well organized
when you disassemble thing, you'll have not trouble. I've got a few
pictures on my website and I can send you a few more on request. It
appears intimidating at first, but in reality many of the boards used
are rather old school, using typical connectors and screws to fasten
them. If the 530 were re-designed with new technology, it would weigh
half as much, have better resolution and fewer contraptions inside. I'm
guessing with all the new products coming out from Garmin, the 430 and
530 will eventually fall unsupported. For now , they are a great unit.
Once you get down to the battery you have a choice. You can trim the
tabs and buy a tab type battery or break looks the tabs from the battery
and re-solder a new battery in its place. The batteries are easily
sourced and cost < $10.
I think Garmin charges $800.00 to replace a $10.00 battery, so you have
a choice.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
joburke
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:32 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin GNS 530 Internal Battery
Did you ever find a source for this information? I'm looking for the
same thing.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271555#271555
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
At 03:56 11/9/2009, you wrote:
>I would add to Charlie's experience that when I went through this process,
>the guy in my local welding shop said he'd do my crimps for $10, or he'd
>sell me a crimping die for the same price. It's a self gauging device you
>can put on a bench or set on the floor and whack a couple times with a good
>sized hammer. (Actually, you can gauge the crimps by ear as well or better
>than by sight). Natch, I bought the die and have made a dozen crimps with
>it and loaned it out to a couple of my cohorts as well. It's definitely
>one of the more cost effective tool investments I've ever made.
>
>
>
>FYI, YMMV, etc, etc...
>
>glen matejcek
>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
Not as inexpensive as the $10 pound-on-it crimper, but...
These occasionally go on sale at HF for under $50, and with a 20% off
coupon on top of that, for <$40 a very nice tool that crimps from
AWG-12 to 00 cables.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66150
Emacs!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
If you go to Ebay and enter "hammer crimper" there are a bunch of them for little
money. I have a hammer crimper and it works like a charm.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271948#271948
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
I have one of these. It works great for crimping some large wire gauges
- 8 tons of force, hex crimp, etc. However, the dies that are supplied
with it are completely marked incorrectly - at least for the type of
terminals we typically use in aviation. The range is on the small size
in reality and most of the dies are not usable.
It will, however, crimp standard #4, #6 and #8AWG wire terminals using
the dies marked "00" (biggest), "0", and "2" respectfully. It might do
#10, but I didn't have any around to try.
So, it's cheap..and it works...just don't expect a correct die set.
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Quillin
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Was wire size, now crimping heavy
wires
Not as inexpensive as the $10 pound-on-it crimper, but...
These occasionally go on sale at HF for under $50, and with a 20% off
coupon on top of that, for <$40 a very nice tool that crimps from AWG-12
to 00 cables.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Robinson <jbr79r(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
Thanks everyone for the great response!!!
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
From: "berkut13(at)berkut13.com" <berkut13(at)berkut13.com>
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 3:09:25 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires
I have one of these. It works great for
crimping some large wire gauges - 8 tons of force, hex crimp, etc.
However, the dies that are supplied with it are completely marked incorrectly -
at least for the type of terminals we typically use in aviation. The range
is on the small size in reality and most of the dies are not
usable.
It will, however, crimp standard #4, #6 and #8AWG
wire terminals using the dies marked "00" (biggest), "0", and "2"
respectfully. It might do #10, but I didn't have any around to
try.
So, it's cheap..and it works...just don't expect
a correct die set.
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
>From: Ron Quillin
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:38
> AM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Was wire
> size, now crimping heavy wires
>
>Not as inexpensive as the $10 pound-on-it crimper,
> but...
>These occasionally go on sale at HF for under $50, and with a 20%
> off coupon on top of that, for <$40 a very nice tool that crimps from
> AWG-12 to 00 cables.
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66150
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
At 15:09 11/9/2009, you wrote:
>The range is on the small size in reality and most of the dies are not usable.
>
>So, it's cheap..and it works...just don't expect a correct die set.
And here I just thought they were marked in metric units
A bit of labor with a die grinder does wonders.
I don't recall exactly where I got dimensions from, perhaps AMP, but
they can be made to work quite well.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Article |
At 10:48 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote:
>Hello Bob,
>
>Sometime ago there was a conversation on the
>AeroElectric List about how to choose an EFIS
>for an experimental airplane, and talked about
>the kind of questions that might be appropriate
>to ask a supplier. I think I sent you a very
>early copy of an article I was writing. In the
>end it ended up as three articles which have now
>been published in the UK. The first described
>what an EFIS is and what makes a good one. The
>second looked at the responses from five EFIS
>makers (and included Blue Mountain who it seems
>is no longer in business). The third looked at
>some of the operation factors to be considered
>when flying behind a glass screen.
>
>I have uploaded the articles as PDFs ' see the
>bottom 3 links on this page
><http://www.glosterairparts.co.uk/building.htm>http://www.glosterairparts.c
o.uk/building.htm.
>
>They are available as Word files if required. I
>would be interested in your comments and perhaps
>the best way to roll them out to the Aeroelectric community.
>
>Best Regards, Peter Pengilly
Peter, I've read through your offerings an to the techno-wiennie
with some flying experience . . . they read well and logically.
I've posted them at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles.html#Instrumentation
I'll invite our brothers here stateside to look them over
and craft any assessment they might like to offer. I'd be
pleased to add these articles to the too small number of
guest authors on the AeroElectric.com website.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Articles (Mis quoted Link) |
Peter, I've read through your offerings and to the techno-wiennie
with some flying experience . . . they read well and logically.
I've posted them at (CORRECTED LINK) . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles.html#EFIS_Systems
I'll invite our brothers here stateside to look them over
and craft any assessment they might like to offer. I'd be
pleased to add these articles to the too small number of
guest authors on the AeroElectric.com website.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Articles (Mis quoted Link) |
| From: | "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Probably the best in depth and most welll researched article I have read on comparison
of systems available. Although a bit outdated re: one of the Mfgrs. Well
done Peter
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272067#272067
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires |
Good ole' Harbor Freight. What would we do without that 500 billion
dollar trade deficit. I bought a pair from Stein (also imported) which
doesn't require a shaving kit full of dies, but does cost a few extra
bucks. Convenience worth the money. See their tools page.
Glenn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
berkut13(at)berkut13.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Was wire size, now crimping heavy wires
I have one of these. It works great for crimping some large wire gauges
- 8 tons of force, hex crimp, etc. However, the dies that are supplied
with it are completely marked incorrectly - at least for the type of
terminals we typically use in aviation. The range is on the small size
in reality and most of the dies are not usable.
It will, however, crimp standard #4, #6 and #8AWG wire terminals using
the dies marked "00" (biggest), "0", and "2" respectfully. It might do
#10, but I didn't have any around to try.
So, it's cheap..and it works...just don't expect a correct die set.
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Quillin <mailto:rjquillin(at)gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Was wire size, now crimping
heavy wires
Not as inexpensive as the $10 pound-on-it crimper, but...
These occasionally go on sale at HF for under $50, and with a
20% off coupon on top of that, for <$40 a very nice tool that crimps
from AWG-12 to 00 cables.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Articles (Mis quoted Link) |
Indeed. I wonder if it's coincidence that Dynon have since started
using GPS augmentation to help with lost airspeed data?
Either way, it's good for everyone to have a clear, unbiased comparison.
Thanks
Etienne
On 10 Nov 2009, at 3:46 PM, n395v wrote:
> >
>
> Probably the best in depth and most welll researched article I have
> read on comparison of systems available. Although a bit outdated
> re: one of the Mfgrs. Well done Peter
>
> --------
> Milt
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272067#272067
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Preferred Method for Redundant Power Sources to Single |
Input
| From: | "tx_jayhawk" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
Bob,
I am curious as to what your preferred method is for providing redundant power
sources to devices that only have a single power input.
One thought was that you could use one half of a bridge rectifier diode with fast-on
tabs to provide a simple way to provide dual inputs and handle the diode
backfeed protection. The only problem with that is the forward voltage drop
can be significant. I noticed it is 1.7V on a Radio Shack piece that I looked
at. I called B&C and they did not know (?) what the forward voltage drop was
on their product (I am guessing it might be the same).
I like the simplicity of the bridge if the drop wasn't so significant. Do you
tend to prefer axial diodes or some other solution?
Thanks,
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272117#272117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Method for Redundant Power Sources to |
Single Input
| From: | "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
When flight critical devices with a single input power connection are powered from
more than one source, there are not many choices. You can use manually or
automatically operated "switches" to route energy from the various sources to
the electrically needy accessory . . .
Manual switches are pretty obvious . . . a toggle switch transfer from NORM to
ALTERNATE power source will do. Alternatively, one might install a relay that
is held closed and controlled with some voltage sensing device that drops the
coil and effects a transfer without pilot intervention. In the Z-Figure below
. . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z19-RBA1.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z19-RBA2.pdf
. . . I've illustrated a manually operated selection of power sources that MINIMIZES
common points of failure for the two power paths that source a single load.
This drawing should not be interpreted as a recommended architecture for all
situations; it's only illustrative of ONE recipe for success in meeting design
goals for the systems that inspired the drawing.
I show a pair of diodes that are used IN THIS CASE to prevent the back-feed of
power from a working to a non-working system in the even the pilot positions switches
incorrectly. Obviously, a pair of diodes could be used WITHOUT switches
to provide an either/or energy path from two, always-on sources. The recipe
for your particular design goals may differ from that which is shown here.
Power distribution diodes come in two common flavors: Silicon Junction and Schottky
Junction devices. The former is used in 99% of all power steering and rectification
tasks. The later has a slight advantage in that voltage drop across
the conducting junction is lower and a disadvantage of being more expensive and
available in fewer user-friendly package styles.
The Maximum voltage drop ratings for any given device are stated for conditions
of highest peak current sometimes stacked on top of the worst case for operating
temperature. Its quite misleading because you're interested in average voltage
drop under NORMAL conditions. Take a peek at this data sheet for a 2A, 40V
rated Schottky device:
http://tinyurl.com/ygbolwb
Note on Figure 1 we see a plot of typical forward voltage drop characteristics.
At 2A the critter nominally tosses off 0.5 volts. Now check
out:
http://tinyurl.com/y9y7fc7
In figure 1 of this data sheet we see a similarly rated standard junction device
tosses off about .95 volts for the same conditions for a difference of about
.5 volts.
But for reasons I've cited many times in the past, I like the modular molded bridge
rectifier blocks with fast-on tabs. They're cheap. They mount right to the
airframe with no need for additional heat-sinking in most cases. Finally, they're
internally insulated electrically from their mounting surfaces. Check out
this data sheet:
http://tinyurl.com/yzmpjbk
In figure 5 we see that depending on the internal temperature of the device, we
can expect voltage drops on the order of 0.6 to 0.7 at the same 2A loads.
Further, the mono-block bridge with fast-on tabs offers a very robust, easy to
wire, minimum risk for installation error solution for diode steering of energy
around the ship's electrical system. The typical voltage drops experienced do
not produce an observable degradation of performance. My preference for this
class of diode has little to do with electrical performance . . . the little
beasties are 25A plus rated devices and quite robust electrically for the way
we use them. I judge them preferred for low cost, wide availability, mechanical
convenience and minimum parts count.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272463#272463
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
FOR SALE RV6A
This one is for sale because I am 74 and cant get my medical renewed.
This plane is complete except for upholstery. And a D-10.
It has an alternative engine in it that develops over 200 hp.
$27,000 with engine $22,000 without.
It has a Navaid device AP-1. wing leveler.
Electric Flaps
Both wing tips have strobes along with the regular lights.
Wings have wig wags.
Apollo GX65
Flaps are electric
Tiedown rings.
Lift Reserve Indicator. Lets you know when you are close to a stall.
Military style portable flood. Can adjust to a spot. Can adjust to red or
white light.
Pilot stick has military style grip. With several switches that run trim.
lights, mike etc.
Wing tips are finished. Vertical tips are finished.
Stabilizer tips are finished. Rudder tips are finished top and bottom.
The instrument panel is upgraded to a fiberglass panel with two sub
panels tilted toward pilot.
Wings are finished with finished tips with all lights including strobes
and landing lights.
More than 1,000 invested in assembly.
About $15,000 invested in firewall forward which is not for sale.
Call Cecil at 805 402-5308 or e-mail at (cecilth(at)juno.com) for
questions or to arrange to see in Ventura County, Southern California.
____________________________________________________________
Free College Information
Connect to the online college that best fits your needs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=NhNcxlOSOJV3HMi82aVsEAAAJ1CgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAQAAAAFAAAAAA4tAj8AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJWaQAAAAA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE RV6A |
| From: | jss165(at)yahoo.com |
What engine is in it?
------Original Message------
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: FOR SALE RV6A
Sent: Nov 12, 2009 2:32 PM
FOR SALE RV6A
This one is for sale because I am 74 and cant get my medical renewed.
This plane is complete except for upholstery. And a D-10.
It has an alternative engine in it that develops over 200 hp.
$27,000 with engine $22,000 without.
It has a Navaid device AP-1. wing leveler.
Electric Flaps
Both wing tips have strobes along with the regular lights.
Wings have wig wags.
Apollo GX65
Flaps are electric
Tiedown rings.
Lift Reserve Indicator. Lets you know when you are close to a stall.
Military style portable flood. Can adjust to a spot. Can adjust to red or
white light.
Pilot stick has military style grip. With several switches that run trim.
lights, mike etc.
Wing tips are finished. Vertical tips are finished.
Stabilizer tips are finished. Rudder tips are finished top and bottom.
The instrument panel is upgraded to a fiberglass panel with two sub
panels tilted toward pilot.
Wings are finished with finished tips with all lights including strobes
and landing lights.
More than 1,000 invested in assembly.
About $15,000 invested in firewall forward which is not for sale.
Call Cecil at 805 402-5308 or e-mail at (cecilth(at)juno.com) for
questions or to arrange to see in Ventura County, Southern California.
____________________________________________________________
Free College Information
Connect to the online college that best fits your needs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=NhNcxlOSOJV3HMi82aVsEAAAJ1CgTD6yWnN9nTOcXhzb7nn5AAQAAAAFAAAAAA4tAj8AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJWaQAAAAA
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE RV6A |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Some Very Nice Comments... |
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I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List
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Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucaslendies" <lucaslendies(at)sify.com> |
Read E-Books and more...
Features:
- Same size as an original DS game cartridge
- Built-in PassMe (NO need for any boot cart/passcard etc.)
- Uses microSD memory card (Trans Flash) as storage.
- Boot clean dump images (downloadable from internet)
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- Supports WiFi, DS rumble pack and DS browser.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272644#272644
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Method for Redundant Power Sources to |
Single Input
| From: | "gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com" <gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob wrote:
Obviously, a pair of diodes could be used WITHOUT switches to provide an either/or
energy path from two, always-on sources.
In this case when the two always-on sources differ by a volt or two, for whatever
reason, Do the sources provide power proportionally to their voltage or will
it be a 100% feed from the highest voltage source?
Gordon Smith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272667#272667
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred Method for Redundant Power Sources |
to Single Input
At 07:09 AM 11/13/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob wrote:
>Obviously, a pair of diodes could be used WITHOUT switches to
>provide an either/or energy path from two, always-on sources.
>
>In this case when the two always-on sources differ by a volt or two,
>for whatever reason, Do the sources provide power proportionally to
>their voltage or will it be a 100% feed from the highest voltage source?
Great question. The highest voltage source will assume
most if not all the total downstream load. The design goal
for use of diodes in this manner is not to spread and share
the load between two sources but to insure that the loads
are supplied with energy irrespective of the condition for
either source.
I'm working an accident case where a couple of systems were
combined downstream of a pair of diodes without modifying
upstream protection to accommodate the SUM OF BOTH LOADS
on EITHER energy source.
This was but one design error that stacked on top of several
others to bring an airplane full of folks to an unplanned
arrival with the earth. The little things DO matter.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Failure Detection and Annunciation |
Bob,
Was reviewing your article:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf
Alan, sorry for the delay on this. I'm fielding input from
the List on three different computers which scatters
my to-answer list over three in-boxes. I have to scan
the forum archives from time to time to make sure I
don't have any dangling conversations!
I want to annunciate the failure of a 12v scavenge pump to draw
current. You mention such a circuit being used on a heated pitot but
I was wondering if it mattered if the load was a pump motor? Full
load would be approximately 5 amps and it needs to be running
whenever the engine is running. I figured the LED would come on
whenever I put power to the ECU and Ignition and would quickly go out
if the scavenge pump was pulling power as it should. Thus, even if I
"forgot" to flip the switch for the scavenge pump, the LED would
illuminate until I did AND the pump was pulling power.
Sounds like a plan
Any problem with a motor as opposed to a resistance load? Any other
things I should consider?
There are many ways to deduce whether or not an accessory
is drawing the expected current (and therefore assumed
functional). Since your pump has a 100% duty cycle,
perhaps it would be better to rig the annunciation such
that you have a warning light which speaks to the pump
NOT running. It's a human factors thing that an undesirable
condition be annunciated by turning a light ON as opposed
to watching to make sure a light doesn't turn OFF.
The reed-switch current relay I illustrated in that
article has been incorporated by the thousands in all
manner of monitored systems for many years. A friend of
mine has been manufacturing those sensors in a wide
variety of current detection levels for decades.
I would not discourage you from crafting a similar
device . . . but they DO require a bit of tinkering
on the bench to make sure that the reed is going to
be closed when it's supposed to . . .
Further, keep in mind that the warning light side
of the sensor system needs to be powered from some
source OTHER than power that runs the motor. You don't
want a failure warning light to be dark just because
the supply fuse/breaker is open.
Further, you'll want to have a pre-flight test item
that checks the light for operation by turning the
pump switch OFF.
Emacs!
Power to the light doesn't need "protection"
with fuse or breaker if you mount the resistor
close to the bus-tap . . . the resistor's
current limiting qualities protects the wiring.
A 1K resistor can be installed in the source
wire like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Homeless/Homeless_Components.htm
Build your relay so that it pulls in with
anything over 2A or so.
http://jameco.com sells reed capsules.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Solid Wire for Ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello!
I didn't have any Tefzel stranded 10awg for the ground wire for about a 3' run
from my panel ground to my firwall ground. The little bit of soldering I've done
so far has been sorta fun, so I figured I'd use a piece of solid 10awg wire
I had laying around (non-Tefzel). Into a noninsulated 8awg ring, I put this solid
wire in plus a tiny piece of 12awg stranded wire to bulk up the space. Crimped
it down good in a couple places, then soldered. Although the thicker wires
took a bit longer to heat up, it eventually got there.
I figure if it's a ground wire, it won't heat up and be a primary source of fire,
poisoning me with the plastic coating. The other concern I have is the solid
wire. I know it's susceptible to cracking if it's bent back and forth a few
times in a tight radius. That's not the case here, as I'm using maybe 1" radius
corners. Would this be okay to use just for the ground wire with no tight bends?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272881#272881
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 11/15/2009 1:51 AM, messydeer wrote:
> I figure if it's a ground wire, it won't heat up and be a primary source of fire,
poisoning me with the plastic coating.
Hi Dan,
Since there is just as much current flowing through the ground wire as
the positive wire, it is possible for it to heat up as well.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
At 12:51 AM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hello!
>
>I didn't have any Tefzel stranded 10awg for the ground wire for
>about a 3' run from my panel ground to my firwall ground. The little
>bit of soldering I've done so far has been sorta fun, so I figured
>I'd use a piece of solid 10awg wire I had laying around
>(non-Tefzel). Into a noninsulated 8awg ring, I put this solid wire
>in plus a tiny piece of 12awg stranded wire to bulk up the space.
>Crimped it down good in a couple places, then soldered. Although the
>thicker wires took a bit longer to heat up, it eventually got there.
>
>I figure if it's a ground wire, it won't heat up and be a primary
>source of fire, poisoning me with the plastic coating. The other
>concern I have is the solid wire. I know it's susceptible to
>cracking if it's bent back and forth a few times in a tight radius.
>That's not the case here, as I'm using maybe 1" radius corners.
>Would this be okay to use just for the ground wire with no tight bends?
Use of solid wire is contrary to accepted practice
in all manner of vehicle. It's recommended for stationary
applications only.
Where is your panel ground bus located? Is it mounted
on or close to some panel support structure that is
not subject to periodic removal from the airplane?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, guys :-)
Sounds like I'll get some stranded wire for this. My panel ground is located on
the under side of the permanantly mounted glare shield. It's a few inches away
from the main buss block, whose piano hinge sections can be seen in the pic.
Regarding the panel ground buss, I have used a section of the B&C forest of tabs.
It would be convenient to rivet the brass block to the glare shield and use
one of the tabs to connect to the firewall. Would using a faston for 10awg wire
here be okay, or would it be better to solder it, or both? I'd rather not
have an ugly bolt head on top of the glare shield.
If I solder without the female faston, would I just drill a hole in one of the
tabs big enough for the bare wire to go through and solder it like that?
If soldering isn't as good as a ring to bolt connection, I'd prolly make a little
standoff bracket for the panel ground.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272920#272920
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/subpanel_progress2_207.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ground_buss_and_cig_lighter_184.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
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Thank you for your support!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Samuelian <psamuelian(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse and MaxDim |
This is a good time to have another MaxDim and MaxPulse "Group Buy".
Wholesale prices on Seaton Engineering products are being raised
substantially on December 1. I set up a "Group Buy" almost a year ago
for U.S. List members only, so here we go again...
If you're looking for the most sophisticated panel dimmer for your
project, the MaxDim is it.
If you're looking for a sophisticated landing light controller for
your project, check out the MaxPulse.
So, through November 29, 2009 order as many as you want at
samcoaviation.com and receive an $8 rebate off the posted price when
you add the note "Aeroelectric List Group Buy" during check out.
Rebates will be applied to your PayPal account after the order is
placed because I have to do this manually.
$3.35 shipping (+ sales tax in CA), but multiple unit orders will ship
together and receive a shipping discount, too (added to rebate).
These dimmers are unparalleled in performance...
NO heat, NO separate, bulky control unit. NO heatsink. Amazing 350W
power control in a 1.25" diameter unit.
This is a best-of-breed product. Mooney has specified these for all
their new planes! (STC and PMA)
5-35VDC, 12.5Amps and less than 1 ounce!
Hook up power, ground, and lights (3 connections), 2 mounting holes to
drill, and you're done.
The 2 units in my Cessna have been installed for over a year, and
still perform flawlessly.
See the specs at samcoaviation.com
Prices are already better than most dealers, plus now you get an
additional $8 off each unit until Nov 29, 2009.
Thanks,
Phil
RV7, Cessna 177
On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:32 AM, cherokee wrote:
> Hey list members. Just thought I would let you all know that we
> completed our installation of the MaxPulse and MaxDim units in our
> 150, 4 months ago now. These things run cool and are a dream to
> install. These correct so many problems we encounter as aircraft
> owners. Like replacing the rheostats or the big dual dimmer that
> costs $1200 from Cessna. Yikes.
> You can see these at www.maxpulsemaxdim.com .
>
> I see another member is gathering a group together for a special buy
> on the MaxDim, I think I will join in that effort for our other Cub.
>
> Mark
> Eagle River, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Page" <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel pump control |
I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
a neat idea, probably on this list.
It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
failed, the electric one would be powered up.
This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
off. Ooops :-(
Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
Thoughts ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Instead of a pressure switch, how about a flow switch on the input side
of the mechanical pump...
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Page wrote:
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
> a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Hi Jeff,
Another option would be to put a one way valve in the output of the
engine driven pump. T the two lines together after the valve. I think
some of the electric pumps provide a one way flow, but if not, you
would need one there also to prevent the mechanical pump from bypassing
the engine. I seem to recall a Faucet pump I had would flow backwards
sometimes depending on where it stopped when it was turned off.
Bob W.
"Jeff Page" wrote:
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing
> a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
Now Rotary Powered Alpine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwceNc2ydN8
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wschertz(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
I thought perehileon design had a circuit for doing this, but in looking at
there web site, I couldn't find it. Eric Jones monitors the list -- Eric?
Bill Schertz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:30:35 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel pump control
Instead of a pressure switch, how about a flow switch on the input side of
the mechanical pump...
Harley
Jeff Page wrote:
I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after noticing a ne
at idea, probably on this list.
It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to the ele
ctric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump failed, the electr
ic one would be powered up.
This seemed like a great idea at the time.=C2- It would likely mean an en
gine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much better th
an the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel starvation and
manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist item).
However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the electric pum
p provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch would open and the
pump would shut off, and then back on, and then off.=C2- Ooops :-(
Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this automatic
operation, or better to keep things simple ?
I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in most c
ircumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant landing.
Thoughts ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
It is pretty simple to do this if you use a fuel pump and relay coil
that require the same voltage. Use a pressure sensor to control the
relay. Connect the relay output to the fuel pump AND to the relay
coil (input). That way when the fuel pump comes on (due to a low
pressure signal), the relay locks itself on, regardless of the state
of the pressure sensor. To turn the pump off, you would have a
momentary switch in the circuit that would break the connection to the
relay coil. This used to be called a "seal-in" circuit for industrial
controls.
Steve Ruse
> Jeff Page wrote:
>
>
> I just came across a notation I made quite a while ago, after
> noticing a neat idea, probably on this list.
>
> It utilizes a low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to
> the electric fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump
> failed, the electric one would be powered up.
>
> This seemed like a great idea at the time. It would likely mean an
> engine hiccup, followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - much
> better than the pilot conjecturing the engine failure is due to fuel
> starvation and manually turning on the pump (would be a checklist
> item).
>
> However, looking at the schematic as I drew it, as soon as the
> electric pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch
> would open and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then
> off. Ooops :-(
>
> Is it worth fabricating a little latching circuit to provide this
> automatic operation, or better to keep things simple ?
>
> I don't do hard IFR, and manually turning on the fuel pump switch in
> most circumstances would be sufficient to avoid an unpleasant
> landing.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Jeff,
<< low pressure switch to provide an "automatic" mode to the electric
fuel boost pump, so that if the engine driven pump failed, the electric
one would be powered up. ... It would likely mean an engine hiccup,
followed by the fuel pump on LED illuminating - as soon as the electric
pump provided sufficient pressure, the low pressure switch would open
and the pump would shut off, and then back on, and then off. Ooops :-(
>>
My circuit published in the May 2008 issue of Kitplanes magazine will do
what you describe including switch conditioning and relay driving. It
is a simple programmable timer. Set it to run for say 4 minutes. This
gives you plenty of time to notice the LED and turn on the manual pump
switch. You would need some blocking diodes for the manual switch and a
cockpit accessible fuse/circuit breaker to be able to override a
stuck-on failure.
With the system you describe there should not be an engine hiccup. When
the fuel pressure starts to drop there is still a bowl's worth of fuel
in the carburetor. The pressure switch should turn on the pump and
refill the carb long before the bowl is depleted.
Email me off list and I'll send you a revised schematic for this
function.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew Schumacher <schu(at)schu.net> |
| Subject: | Please review my electrical system (Deviation of Z-13) |
List,
I've been working on the wiring diagram for my airplane (electric panel,
IFR, plane power internally regulated main alt and a SD-8 backup). So
I've been reading though Bob's book and am familiar with the Z-13 wiring
diagram, however there are a two things about it that I don't like:
1. It is possible to turn on both alternators at once. It is my
understanding that you don't want to have both alternators online at
once and I don't want the pilot to be able to cause damage by not using
the correct switches.
2. Alternate feed switches. Feed switches seem cumbersome since it
requires the pilot to know something about the electrical system.
I think I have a new wiring diagram that addresses these things, but I
want to run it past this list and perhaps Bob so that others can help me
find the problems.
Here is how it works:
The avionics bus is treated like the endurance bus since the avionics
are the only things I care about if my alternator fails (I have mags and
a mechanical fuel pump.) When the master switch is on, the battery
pulls the battery contactor which brings the main alternator and battery
into the system. Should something happen to the main alternator the
battery will continue to power the system unless I switch the ALT switch
to AUX. When the alternator switch is on AUX it takes out the main alt
and powers up the SD-8 wired up with the self exciting hack. This will
allow my aux alternator to power the avionics bus (when the Avionics
master is on AUX) but will keep my master contactor and battery separate
from the rest of the system. In the event that I want to charge my main
battery I can turn the master switch off which will then allow me to
charge my battery should I desire to try and bring the main alternator
back after a dead battery.
In order to clear up any confusion here are the basic switches,
settings, and mode of operation:
Master: on, Alt: main, Avionics: main; Normal operation running on the
main alternator and battery.
Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Main; Aux alternator is online and master
alternator is offline, battery is powering everything.
Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Aux; Aux alternator is powering avionics,
main alternator is offline, and battery is powering everything except
avionics.
Master off, Alt: Main, Avionics: main; Nothing is powered up.
Master off, Alt: aux, Avionics: main; Avionics are off, Aux alternator
is online and is charging the battery.
Master Off, Alt: aux, Avoinics: aux; Avionics are on aux alternator, aux
alternator is online and is charging the battery.
Perhaps it would be more intuitive if I name the switches like this:
Battery: On | Off (Aux Charge)
Alternator : MAIN | AUX
Avionics: MAIN | OFF | AUX
This setup reduces the panel down to 3 switches and gives the operator
good control over the system, allows for the battery to be isolated or
charged from the aux alternator, and gives a way for non critical
devices to run off the battery.
If this doesn't look sane to you please post some feedback. Any help I
can get is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
schu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please review my electrical system (Deviation |
of Z-13)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
The RV-12 has a mechanical fuel pump on the engine and an electrical
fuel pump near the fuel tank. The electric fuel pump runs continuously
whenever the master switch is on. There is no discrete switch for the
electric fuel pump. The pre-flight check is to turn on the master
switch and observe the fuel pressure to be sure the electric pump is
working. Then start the engine and watch for an increase in fuel
pressure to be sure that the mechanical fuel pump is also working. Yes,
it wastes electricity and wears out the electric fuel pump. On the
other hand, most automotive fuel pumps last the life of the vehicle.
Airplanes are used a lot less then cars. I would not expect the
electric fuel pump in the RV-12 to wear out soon. The big advantage of
wiring the electric fuel pump to run continuously is that it helps to
prevent mismanagement of the fuel system, a major cause of accidents.
The RV-12 fuel system does not have a fuel selector valve because there
is only one fuel tank. There is no mixture control. The only thing for
the pilot to mismanage is the emergency fuel shut-off valve handle that
is located on the floor. The handle must be pulled up to shut off. The
simpler the system is, the less chance for malfunction or error.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please review my electrical system (Deviation |
of Z-13)
I investigated this earlier and this is what I found:
1. No harm is done with both alternators online. The theory that there
is a problem stems from twin engine systems with elaborate schemes to
deal with 2 alternators.
I am using Z-13/8 and there are only 3 switches:
Main: (off)- (battery contactor)-(battery+main alternator)
Aux feed: (off)-(on)
Aux Alt: (off)-(on)
The endurance bus can be powered by:
Battery only
Battery + Main Alternator
Battery + Aux Alternator
Aux Alternator only
The Aux Feed provides a path that does not include the battery contactor.
Hope this helps,
John Morgensen
Grumman AA1B 150hp - For Sale
RV4 - Flying
RV9A - wiring
Matthew Schumacher wrote:
> List,
>
> I've been working on the wiring diagram for my airplane (electric panel,
> IFR, plane power internally regulated main alt and a SD-8 backup). So
> I've been reading though Bob's book and am familiar with the Z-13 wiring
> diagram, however there are a two things about it that I don't like:
>
> 1. It is possible to turn on both alternators at once. It is my
> understanding that you don't want to have both alternators online at
> once and I don't want the pilot to be able to cause damage by not using
> the correct switches.
>
> 2. Alternate feed switches. Feed switches seem cumbersome since it
> requires the pilot to know something about the electrical system.
>
> I think I have a new wiring diagram that addresses these things, but I
> want to run it past this list and perhaps Bob so that others can help me
> find the problems.
>
> Here is how it works:
>
> The avionics bus is treated like the endurance bus since the avionics
> are the only things I care about if my alternator fails (I have mags and
> a mechanical fuel pump.) When the master switch is on, the battery
> pulls the battery contactor which brings the main alternator and battery
> into the system. Should something happen to the main alternator the
> battery will continue to power the system unless I switch the ALT switch
> to AUX. When the alternator switch is on AUX it takes out the main alt
> and powers up the SD-8 wired up with the self exciting hack. This will
> allow my aux alternator to power the avionics bus (when the Avionics
> master is on AUX) but will keep my master contactor and battery separate
> from the rest of the system. In the event that I want to charge my main
> battery I can turn the master switch off which will then allow me to
> charge my battery should I desire to try and bring the main alternator
> back after a dead battery.
>
> In order to clear up any confusion here are the basic switches,
> settings, and mode of operation:
>
> Master: on, Alt: main, Avionics: main; Normal operation running on the
> main alternator and battery.
>
> Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Main; Aux alternator is online and master
> alternator is offline, battery is powering everything.
>
> Master on, Alt: Aux, Avionics: Aux; Aux alternator is powering avionics,
> main alternator is offline, and battery is powering everything except
> avionics.
>
> Master off, Alt: Main, Avionics: main; Nothing is powered up.
>
> Master off, Alt: aux, Avionics: main; Avionics are off, Aux alternator
> is online and is charging the battery.
>
> Master Off, Alt: aux, Avoinics: aux; Avionics are on aux alternator, aux
> alternator is online and is charging the battery.
>
> Perhaps it would be more intuitive if I name the switches like this:
>
> Battery: On | Off (Aux Charge)
> Alternator : MAIN | AUX
> Avionics: MAIN | OFF | AUX
>
> This setup reduces the panel down to 3 switches and gives the operator
> good control over the system, allows for the battery to be isolated or
> charged from the aux alternator, and gives a way for non critical
> devices to run off the battery.
>
> If this doesn't look sane to you please post some feedback. Any help I
> can get is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> schu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please review my electrical system (Deviation of |
Z-13)
Schu,
It is easier for me to visualize a circuit by looking at an
electrical schematic rather than reading about it. If I understand
correctly, you intend to have one switch control two alternators. It
seems like a single point of failure. What happens when the switch
fails? Switches probably fail about as often as alternators. It is my
understanding that it will not hurt to have two alternators on line at
once. Power will be drawn from the one with the highest voltage. Bob
will correct me if I am wrong.
Having one switch for the avionics is also a single failure point.
In Z-13/8, inadvertently turning on both the master switch and the E-Bus
Alternate feed switch will not hurt anything. The Endurance Bus will
draw from the highest voltage source. After engine shut down, it is
important to remember to shut off both the master switch and the E-Bus
Alternate Feed switch.
Keeping the electrical controls simple is a worthwhile goal. Having
options in case of a failure is another worthwhile goal. Aircraft
design is a matter of compromises. It is hard to improve on Bob's
designs. They have been scrutinized by many and have evolved over the
years.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Page" <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump control |
Thanks for everyone's replys. The following is exactly the trick I
was hoping for !
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel pump control
>>
> It is pretty simple to do this if you use a fuel pump and relay coil
> that require the same voltage. Use a pressure sensor to control the
> relay. Connect the relay output to the fuel pump AND to the relay
> coil (input). That way when the fuel pump comes on (due to a low
> pressure signal), the relay locks itself on, regardless of the state
> of the pressure sensor. To turn the pump off, you would have a
> momentary switch in the circuit that would break the connection to the
> relay coil. This used to be called a "seal-in" circuit for industrial
> controls.
>
> Steve Ruse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello :-)
I have an MGL Enigma EFIS and will put in a backup battery. In regular operation,
both the main and backup battery are to be wired to the EFIS. The Enigma automatically
switches to backup when it senses a main battery low voltage.
I was thinking of maybe some wiring of a 2-10 that would do the following:
Down position: main buss to EFIS.
Middle position: backup battery to EFIS (for backup battery check)
Up position: both batteries to EFIS.
Or maybe just a two position switch, one position would be for both batteries,
the other just to the backup. The backup check position could be a momentary on,
I suppose, that just takes the main battery offline. Hold it in this position
and see if the EFIS still works, then release.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273305#273305
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, I got one possibility figured out using a 2-10. Figure attached.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273310#273310
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/enigma_efis_backup_switch_wiring_with_2_10_162.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "edleg" <ed_legault(at)yahoo.com> |
With one switch you are putting all your eggs (and faith) in a single point of
failure. What use is having emergency backup power if you can not use it if the
only switch is broken?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273314#273314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please review my electrical system (Deviation of |
Z-13)
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Oops my mistake, there was no schematic in the daily digest that is emailed to
me. Now I see it on the online forum.
Most aircraft have the battery contactor and starter contactor wired in series
so that the starter can be shut off in case it welds shut. There is no way
to disconnect the main alternator from the battery. Moving the alternator wire
to the other side of the battery contactor will fix both issues.
Will the avionics momentarily lose power when the avionics master switch is
operated?
Do the master switch and alternator switch have a center off position? There
needs to be a way to kill power in case of smoke in the cockpit. Most pilots
are familiar with switches being off when in the down position. Switches that
accomplish your goals are available that are off when down.
The 22mfd capacitor should be 22,000mfd.
There is a hot wire from the battery to master switch terminal 5. If it starts
smoking inside of the cockpit, there is no way to shut it off.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273318#273318
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
Dan,
Turn the master on, turn the EFIS on . Turn the master off. If EFIS remains on
the systemn works.
Don VS RV7 flying
---- messydeer wrote:
>
> Well, I got one possibility figured out using a 2-10. Figure attached.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273310#273310
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/enigma_efis_backup_switch_wiring_with_2_10_162.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please review my electrical system (Deviation |
of Z-13)
At 08:52 AM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>I investigated this earlier and this is what I found:
>
>1. No harm is done with both alternators online. The theory that
>there is a problem stems from twin engine systems with elaborate
>schemes to deal with 2 alternators.
Correct . . . and the "problem" was that light twins fitted
with alternators were plagued with inability to make two
alternators PARALLEL . . . i.e. share total loads. I've
developed several approaches to alternator paralleling. Quite
frankly, if you have TWO alternators capable of carrying
most if not all of total system loads, then Z-14 and
NO paralleling is the better way to go.
But the system is not placed at risk by having two
alternators on at the same time. Unless they are
calibrated to within millivolts of each other, the
device with the higher set-point "hogs" the load
until it reaches its output limit. The bus voltage
then sags until the alternator with the lower setpoint
picks up the difference.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Turns out I had the wiring to the EFIS wrong. There are separate terminals for
the backup and main power inputs, so I've redrawn it. It looks like if I forgot
to turn off the EFIS switch, my backup battery would run dead. But I suppose
I otta notice that my screen is still powered up. I would think that would be
pretty obvious.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273325#273325
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/enigma_efis_backup_switch_wiring_with_2_10_150.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
>I have an MGL Enigma EFIS and will put in a backup battery. In
>regular operation, both the main and backup battery are to be wired
>to the EFIS. The Enigma automatically switches to backup when it
>senses a main battery low voltage.
>
>I was thinking of maybe some wiring of a 2-10 that would do the
>following . . .
What does the manufacturer of the EFIS system
recommend?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Bob.
>From the manual:
"...One power switch for the main incoming 12 or 24 V feed (switch in positive
supply lead),
another for the backup battery.
In flight, both switches would be on allowing the charging of the backup battery.
Preflight check would involve switching main power on, then battery power on. Check
of
battery power would involve switching main power off and verifying that Enigma
continues
to operate. Voltage on the backup battery should be measured by means of the backup
voltage readouts which can be placed on any display..."
Imaged referred to attached.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273357#273357
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mgl_enigma_odyssey_installation_198.bmp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "edleg" <ed_legault(at)yahoo.com> |
In simple terms... if the backup battery is not on its own switch it won't charge.
Two switches is simple. Trying to find a special switch to do all things at
once leaves you with a non-common fix if it fails away from your home airport.....
Two switches lets you troubleshoot power problems, and lets the EFIS be powered
fully during a voltage drop, like during an engine start.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273386#273386
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, E., for bringing up the issue of single point of failure. Hadn't thought
about that, which makes me ask some questions about DPDT vs SPST switches.
Looking at the schematic of a DPDT switch it looks like there are two circuits,
an upper and a lower. Their terminals are separate but contained in the same
housing. They also use the same lever and the mechanism the lever connects to
that makes and brakes the contacts.
If the only way a switch failed was through these shared components, then a DPDT
would have the same reliability as a SPST, so there would be a single point
of failure.
And if DPDT's never failed at these shared components, then having one DPDT would
be just as reliable as having two SPST's, and there wouldn't be a single point
of failure.
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. If it turns out that
a DPDT has 90% of the reliabilty as two SPST's, I might stick with just one
DPDT. If it has only 20% of the reliabilty of two SPST's, I might consider going
with two switches.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273392#273392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
The issue is not so much about what the relative reliability is. The
issue is that if the DPDT switch fails you may not be able to connect to
either source of electrons. If one of the SPST switches fails, you
always have the other one.
Dick Tasker
messydeer wrote:
>
> Thanks, E., for bringing up the issue of single point of failure. Hadn't thought
about that, which makes me ask some questions about DPDT vs SPST switches.
>
> Looking at the schematic of a DPDT switch it looks like there are two circuits,
an upper and a lower. Their terminals are separate but contained in the same
housing. They also use the same lever and the mechanism the lever connects
to that makes and brakes the contacts.
>
> If the only way a switch failed was through these shared components, then a DPDT
would have the same reliability as a SPST, so there would be a single point
of failure.
>
> And if DPDT's never failed at these shared components, then having one DPDT would
be just as reliable as having two SPST's, and there wouldn't be a single
point of failure.
>
> I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. If it turns out
that a DPDT has 90% of the reliabilty as two SPST's, I might stick with just
one DPDT. If it has only 20% of the reliabilty of two SPST's, I might consider
going with two switches.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273392#273392
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
What are the consequences of failure of both poles in that switch,
given how you will operate the aircraft (day/night and VFR/IFR) and
the backups you have installed? If you are certain that you will be
able to safely get the aircraft on the ground with an acceptable
workload, then the potential single point failure is acceptable.
Kevin Horton
Sent from my iPod
On 2009-11-17, at 10:36 PM, "messydeer" wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks, E., for bringing up the issue of single point of failure.
> Hadn't thought about that, which makes me ask some questions about
> DPDT vs SPST switches.
>
> Looking at the schematic of a DPDT switch it looks like there are
> two circuits, an upper and a lower. Their terminals are separate but
> contained in the same housing. They also use the same lever and the
> mechanism the lever connects to that makes and brakes the contacts.
>
> If the only way a switch failed was through these shared components,
> then a DPDT would have the same reliability as a SPST, so there
> would be a single point of failure.
>
> And if DPDT's never failed at these shared components, then having
> one DPDT would be just as reliable as having two SPST's, and there
> wouldn't be a single point of failure.
>
> I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. If it
> turns out that a DPDT has 90% of the reliabilty as two SPST's, I
> might stick with just one DPDT. If it has only 20% of the reliabilty
> of two SPST's, I might consider going with two switches.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273392#273392
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
There is one quite important thing to note, no matter how one wires the
switches (I used two DPST switches in the Sling - one for the power to the
Enigmas and one to the backup batteries)- that is that the backups will not
charge unless the voltage to them is sufficiently high. Obvious of course,
but where this becomes a problem is if you have a diode between your main
bus and the e-bus. You get a 0.7v drop across it and then there are some
voltage drops inside the Enigma and the backup batt gets a voltage of
between 12.5 -13v.
To solve this we now run the aircraft with the e-bus alt feed permanently
on, which boosts the e-bus voltage back up sufficiently to charge the backup
battery.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: 18 November 2009 06:43 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring
What are the consequences of failure of both poles in that switch,
given how you will operate the aircraft (day/night and VFR/IFR) and
the backups you have installed? If you are certain that you will be
able to safely get the aircraft on the ground with an acceptable
workload, then the potential single point failure is acceptable.
Kevin Horton
Sent from my iPod
On 2009-11-17, at 10:36 PM, "messydeer" wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks, E., for bringing up the issue of single point of failure.
> Hadn't thought about that, which makes me ask some questions about
> DPDT vs SPST switches.
>
> Looking at the schematic of a DPDT switch it looks like there are
> two circuits, an upper and a lower. Their terminals are separate but
> contained in the same housing. They also use the same lever and the
> mechanism the lever connects to that makes and brakes the contacts.
>
> If the only way a switch failed was through these shared components,
> then a DPDT would have the same reliability as a SPST, so there
> would be a single point of failure.
>
> And if DPDT's never failed at these shared components, then having
> one DPDT would be just as reliable as having two SPST's, and there
> wouldn't be a single point of failure.
>
> I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. If it
> turns out that a DPDT has 90% of the reliabilty as two SPST's, I
> might stick with just one DPDT. If it has only 20% of the reliabilty
> of two SPST's, I might consider going with two switches.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273392#273392
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
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Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
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It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS backup battery switch wiring |
When crafting your project's electrical system architecture
it would be helpful to be aware of the marketplace for
to which avionics suppliers deliver most of their products.
99.9% of all light aircraft built feature an architecture
that has not changed materially in 40+ years when the
avionics bus and master switch was added to protect
transistors from will-o'-the-wisp spikes.
Those same aircraft are largely owned and operated
by individuals who know little if any more about their
airplanes than they do about their cars. Further, even
if they knew and understood a great deal about them,
they would not be permitted by regulation to make
any meaningful improvements upon them. Phrases
like "failure tolerance", "meeting design goals",
and "artful preventative maintenance for maintenance
of system reliability" might just as well be spoken
in Swahili.
Now we have the starry-eyed entrepreneur who
tailors a product for best-fit into spam-can/
FAA-trained aviation. Not only is the product marketed
and sold as the greatest accessory since sliced bread,
it may include a suite of "back up" features designed
to ward of a host of failures uncomfortable to contemplate.
Internal back up batteries are popular. Keep in
mind that internal batteries MIGHT make sense in
the spam-can/FAA-trained world of flight . . . but
we're OBAM aviation. We can craft power sources that
are exceedingly robust. In fact so robust that
flight-critical systems are more likely to become
unavailable due to internal failure than for lack of
ship's power.
Staying true to our design goals for failure tolerance:
If your are PLANNING for any accessory to be critical
to comfortable completion of flight, then your plan-B
for failure of that device needs to go BEYOND any
need for ship's power. If you have a system like Z-13/8
(and assuming further that you exercise due diligence for
battery maintenance) then the probability of the E-bus
ever becoming un-powered in flight is on the same
order as prop bolt failure.
At the same time, probability of some flight critical
system going down for for reasons OTHER than power
failure is decidedly higher.
With that reasoning in mind I'll suggest that fussing
over the optimum back-up battery installation for any
accessory is a distraction from the real task of
crafting a failure tolerant system.
If it were my airplane, I'd go for Z-13/8, ditch the
internal back-up batteries and figure out how I'm
going to comfortably deal with a failure of the LEDs
that light up the screen or a rate sensor that goes
south, etc. etc.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need advice on Z16 5amp circuit breaker |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Ref Z16 schematic. There is a 5 amp circuit breaker on the wire from the main bus
to the S700-2-10 Master. Can I use an in line 5 amp fuse. I would appreciate
the advice. Thanks.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273560#273560
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on Z16 5amp circuit breaker |
At 12:20 PM 11/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>Ref Z16 schematic. There is a 5 amp circuit breaker on the wire from
>the main bus to the S700-2-10 Master. Can I use an in line 5 amp
>fuse. I would appreciate the advice. Thanks.....Geoff
You're apparently unaware of why the breaker is even there . . .
The Z-figures are intended to display various ARCHITECTURES,
not recommended wiring diagrams and bills-of-materials. In
the case of Z-16, it shows the use of fuseblocks in combination
with a CROWBAR over voltage protection system. A panel re-setable
breaker is one of the installation requirements for a crowbar
ov protection system. So when combining with fuseblocks, the
solitary breaker illustrated is part of the system integration
task.
Now, if your choice of power distribution protection is
breakers instead of fuses then the 5A breaker would be
right on the bus and labeled ALT FIELD. If you're
going to use some form of field disconnect ov protection
system, then yes, the 5A breaker could be a fuse . . . but
not an in-line . . . it would be one of many fuses on the
main bus.
The simple answer to your question depends on the
combination of components you're planning to use. In
all cases, an in-line fuse is not a recommended
substitute in any case. If you're using fuse blocks
AND have crowbar ov protection, then you need the breaker
as suggested.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Fund Raiser |
The month is half-gone and Matt's receipts are running
about 20% behind last year . . . while the costs of
maintaining his system have, no doubt, gone up.
If you haven't already contributed to this worthy cause,
please do so. $5 will barely buy a lunch at McD's.
There are 1800+ folks subscribing to this List alone . . . .
a $5 donation from each of us would make sure that
this magnificent system stays healthy. It just
takes a few minutes to insure continuance of a system
that supports tens of thousands of person-hours per
year in volunteer effort.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on Z16 5amp circuit breaker |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Bob,
Questions about the field breaker are a relatively common. I know you
cover the reasoning for the breaker in the discussion about over voltage
protection but it seems there ends up being a disconnect when people look
at the Z diagrams. I kind of suspect that many more people look at the Z
diagrams (seeking a wiring diagram/recipe) than read all parts of the
Aeroelectric connection book, so some may miss the part about crowbars,
etc. I see that you have a descriptive note (18) regarding the crowbar
module..
Maybe it would help people if there were an additional note next to the
field breaker that said something about this being part of the crowbar OV
circuit functionality - maybe refer to your discussion about controlling
alternators. I realize you don't mind answering the same question
multiple times (in the interest of educating an ever changing classroom),
but this could be a place where a tiny amount of additional documentation
speeds the whole process.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> At 12:20 PM 11/18/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Ref Z16 schematic. There is a 5 amp circuit breaker on the wire from
>>the main bus to the S700-2-10 Master. Can I use an in line 5 amp
>>fuse. I would appreciate the advice. Thanks.....Geoff
>
> You're apparently unaware of why the breaker is even there . . .
>
> The Z-figures are intended to display various ARCHITECTURES,
> not recommended wiring diagrams and bills-of-materials. In
> the case of Z-16, it shows the use of fuseblocks in combination
> with a CROWBAR over voltage protection system. A panel re-setable
> breaker is one of the installation requirements for a crowbar
> ov protection system. So when combining with fuseblocks, the
> solitary breaker illustrated is part of the system integration
> task.
>
> Now, if your choice of power distribution protection is
> breakers instead of fuses then the 5A breaker would be
> right on the bus and labeled ALT FIELD. If you're
> going to use some form of field disconnect ov protection
> system, then yes, the 5A breaker could be a fuse . . . but
> not an in-line . . . it would be one of many fuses on the
> main bus.
>
> The simple answer to your question depends on the
> combination of components you're planning to use. In
> all cases, an in-line fuse is not a recommended
> substitute in any case. If you're using fuse blocks
> AND have crowbar ov protection, then you need the breaker
> as suggested.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need advice on Z16 5amp circuit breaker |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks for the info Bob. Correct. I did not know why it is there......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273584#273584
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
At 11:20 AM 11/15/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks, guys :-)
>
>Sounds like I'll get some stranded wire for this. My panel ground is
>located on the under side of the permanantly mounted glare shield.
>It's a few inches away from the main buss block, whose piano hinge
>sections can be seen in the pic.
>
>Regarding the panel ground buss, I have used a section of the B&C
>forest of tabs. It would be convenient to rivet the brass block to
>the glare shield and use one of the tabs to connect to the firewall.
>Would using a faston for 10awg wire here be okay, or would it be
>better to solder it, or both? I'd rather not have an ugly bolt head
>on top of the glare shield.
>
>If I solder without the female faston, would I just drill a hole in
>one of the tabs big enough for the bare wire to go through and
>solder it like that?
>
>If soldering isn't as good as a ring to bolt connection, I'd prolly
>make a little standoff bracket for the panel ground.
The common point ground for stuff mounted on the
instrument panel generally needs a LOT of places
to attach ground wires. Further, these are seldom
larger wires than 20AWG. This is why the D-Sub
ground connector was proposed.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/AVG_RA.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Avionics_Bus_3.jpg
This technique is much more compact than the
forest-of-tabs product . . . and is best located
on the panel - centrally located to the majority
of devices requiring ground attachments.
You can fabricate your own ground connector
using techniques illustrated here
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Minibus1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding/Minibus2.jpg
This example was produced to offer a means by
which lots of instrument lights could be connected
to a single dimmer. Obviously, if used only as
a single point ground, you don't need two-circuits
on the connector. Solder TWO 12AWG grounds to the
row of pins and terminate each 12AWG on it's own
tab at the forest-of-tabs block on the firewall.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Bob :-)
I will only have 8 or 10 wires to ground in the panel. The section of tab forest
for the panel ground has 20 tabs. I may need to get D-Sub tools, supplies, and
skills for installing my not-yet-bought radio, but that's down the road a bit.
Even if I had the stuff for it, it would only save me a little space, which
surprisingly isn't much of an issue in this particular case.
My ground blocks consist of one 48 tab ground block from B&C cut into three sections.
12 tabs are on the forward side of the firewall, 16 tabs on the rear side
with a bolt and rivet connecting the two blocks. That leaves a 20 tab section
available for the panel ground buss. There's actually no individual grounds
going to the rear side of the firewall, just the single wire from the panel ground
block. I can't think of anything in the future that I would add that I couldn't
ground to the glare shield mounted panel ground buss. So could I eliminate
the rear firewall block completely, and just connect the panel ground block
wire to the big bolt through the firewall?
Since I have 10awg to the main buss, I understand I need a 10awg ground. I would
like to know how soldering this ground wire to a drilled out faston tab of the
panel ground forest might work, or if it's better to use a #10 bolt and ring.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273743#273743
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid Wire for Ground |
>
>Since I have 10awg to the main buss, I understand I need a 10awg
>ground. I would like to know how soldering this ground wire to a
>drilled out faston tab of the panel ground forest might work, or if
>it's better to use a #10 bolt and ring.
Ring terminal and bolt.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
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( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
If anyone is interested I've posted a circuit and veroboard layout for a
tested and working crowbar circuit based on the MC3423 chip on the blog for
my Wittman Tailwind build. Total parts cost around $5.
http://tailwindbuild.blogspot.com/2009/11/15th-november-2009-overvoltage-crowbar.html
Click on the pics/diagrams to enlarge
The variable resistor allows the crowbar voltage to be set as required and
compensates for differences in the internal reference voltage on the MC3423.
Best regards
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RScott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: How Pumpkin Pies are made] |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year... |
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar Circuit |
At 12:35 PM 11/19/2009, you wrote:
>
>If anyone is interested I've posted a circuit and veroboard layout
>for a tested and working crowbar circuit based on the MC3423 chip on
>the blog for my Wittman Tailwind build. Total parts cost around $5.
>
>http://tailwindbuild.blogspot.com/2009/11/15th-november-2009-overvoltage-crowbar.html
>
>Click on the pics/diagrams to enlarge
>
>The variable resistor allows the crowbar voltage to be set as
>required and compensates for differences in the internal reference
>voltage on the MC3423.
Some thoughts based on lessons-learned:
You need to select the trip time delay capacitor
for something on the order of 50-100 milliseconds.
Further, depending on how "twitchy" the SCR is,
you may experience nuisance triggers of the SCR
due to very low energy but fast rise-time
noises on the bus. These are effectively dealt
with by tying a 10 ohm resistor from SCR gate
to ground (which may mean a commensurate increase
in gate drive requirements from the MC3423).
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello!
I've done a fair amount of crimping and a little soldering while wiring my instrument
panel mockup, and have a few questions. Maybe posting one or two pics
per post will work. This is for my Jabiru 3300 Sonex with a standard ~30 degree
tilted panel. I've put a piano hinge along the bottom and top with a few nutplates
to go on the side. The tank and glareshield are removed. Tank has roughly
the same cross section as the panel face, starts about a foot in front of the
panel to the firewall.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274009#274009
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_front_112.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
This pic is from the left side looking right, with the panel tilted forward. Some
have had interference problems with the top of the Enigma hitting the glare
shield, but mine just fits.
At the top of the pic you can see the cover for the main buss. It's mocked up to
fit on the underside of the glare shield. Taking out the top hinge pin will
let it swing down for easier access. On the bottom side of the cover I've mounted
a section of ground tabs.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274011#274011
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_pivoted_119.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
This is with the panel in the closed position. The channel that the lower piano
hinge attaches to is 025 with either 1/2" or 3/4" flanges. Some of the longer
wires, like the blue one in the foreground, can be tucked away from the flange.
There are a few shorter wires that need to have a zip tie pull them up and
away, or maybe ben up the switch terminals. The 3rd switch back is a good example.
It has a white and red wire resting on the flange.
In the foreground is my security switch for the starter button, mentioned in earlier
posts.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274017#274017
Attachments:
October 21, 2009 - November 20, 2009
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jc