AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jn
May 12, 2010 - June 07, 2010
or you send the headset back in with a detailed note describing the
"randomness". Of operation.
I once had a David Clark set that developed a failed speaker element.
Called DC and told them the problem. Guy on line said, "...that's
impossible. We've never had the earpiece element fail". I had to do
some tall talking to convince him to send me a new one. He did with my
promise to send back the old one. He later called and softly
apologized. The element had indeed, failed some way inside the unit.
David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Pengilly
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strange radio transmit problem - any
suggestions?
Hi,
I have a Becker AR4201 radio in my One Design that I have just started
flying (2 hours on the tacho). Initially the radio worked great (after I
got the mike jack wiring correct - there's always one bozo moment in any
project). Halfway through the 2nd flight the transmit quit - receive was
still good. Plugging in another headset on the ground and the transmit
worked OK.
A couple of days later I pushed the aeroplane out for another flight
and no transmit at all. Carrier wave is being transmitted but no
modulation (and so side tone in my headset). After trying to figure it
out for an hour I put it back together and went flying, still with
carrier wave only. After a while I called a local tower (119.0) - loud
and clear. Returned to my field (124.1) to the same problem - carrier
wave only. What is going on!!! :-(
I have not been able to test further - but I need to step through the
frequency range and find out which freqs work and which do not. This is
a very simple airplane with no intercom, headset connected directly to
the radio. Receive is good all the time, on all freqs tried so far.
Radio shows the transmit arrow whenever the PTT is pushed, and puts out
carrier wave on 124.1. Why is it modulating on some freqs and not
others? Headset works in other aircraft (have tried 3 so far with same
results).
Does anyone have any idea about what is going on?
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Group=2C
While searching Dynon's archives I found the following correspondence fro
m a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as me......set the audio a
lert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits=2C I want it to also po
wer a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
The circuit is built=2C now I just need to know a good way to send a pow
er source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
Evidently=2C according to Dynon support=2C I can choose between a steady
tone=2C or an increasing rate intermittant tone=2C increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts=2C so I'd cho
ose the steady tone.
The following is the archived messages=3B
QUESTION:
I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device that wou
ld be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the audio outpu
t is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this output to DC
voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning light/whatever?
___________________________________________________________________________
___
ANSWER=3B (from Dynon Technical Support)
The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak=2C at 1k ohm of impedance
=2C and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel and put noi
se in your headset. We generate different noises for different alarms (gene
ral alarm=2C AoA=2C autopilot=2C altitude alerter...)
If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an external lig
ht=2C we can't be much help=2C as we didn't design it for that nor have we
ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
some thought it could be done for sure though.
___________________________________________________________________________
_
My question is=3B with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A produces(d
escribed by Dynon Tech Support)=2C how can I tap into that signal for my LE
D circuit=2C and not screw it up for the intercom "audio in"?
Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
I re-read CH2 on Batteries, but it seems that with the sensor on the
contactor-main bus leg, the sensor would only see the current(amps)
going through that leg to the main bus.
Correct.
The bus voltage would show up on the voltmeter indicating alternator
condition, but I don't see how the HS could detect current going to
the battery if it is located on a branch of the system.
How would you use that information if you had
it?
So I'm happy that I can at least verify that the alternator is
working with the sensor inside the cabin, but it seems that if I want
to know how hard, I will need another sensor at the alternator, or
use a shunt per Z-13 and forget the hall sensor.
You KNOW how hard the alternator is working
before you ever fly the airplane. I.e., it
HAS to be large enough to carry all of system
loads PLUS recharge a battery.
If your low volts warning light is out, the
alternator IS WORKING. If the battery cranked
your engine to get you airborne and you're
confident of its CAPACITY, then the battery
IS WORKING. If in the rare instance that you
loose either alternator or battery contactor,
the e-bus alternate feed gives you a means by
which you get comfortably on the ground . . .
preferably at airport of intended destination.
Ammeters of any style installed connected to
measure any current flow in the aircraft are
diagnostic tools where the data offered is best
considered on the ground. Ammeters are
not particularly useful for making Plan-A/Plan-B
decisions in flight.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: IVO Prop Motor Current Limiter and Electronic |
CB
Is it true that IVO insists that the supplied wiring to the prop not be
shortened as it is part of the current limiting to protect the motor gears?
Ken
> This is why I like the idea of the electronic limiting feature of
> Bob's circuit. The reed switch is a huge improvement over guessing
> where the prop is set, or using the provided CB as the ultimate
> 'stop'. It lets the user know when the limit is reached, but doesn't
> prevent abuse (intentional or inadvertent). The electronic CB
> prevents the abuse, and can only help improve the life of the gear
> train and electric motor.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Hi Mike
As an alternative, would it not be easier and more reliable to use the
serial stream output to get the AoA? Although this would involve a
microprocessor, you would have direct access to the real AoA value at
all times, not just when the alarm sounds.
If you are looking for a strobe that flashes for all alarms, then your
way is probably better, but if it's just for AoA, then I would suggest
looking at the serial stream.
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010, at 2:14 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
> Group,
>
> While searching Dynon's archives I found the following
correspondence from a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as
me......set the audio alert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
> In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits, I want it to also
power a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
> The circuit is built, now I just need to know a good way to send a
power source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
> Evidently, according to Dynon support, I can choose between a steady
tone, or an increasing rate intermittant tone, increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
> I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts, so I'd
choose the steady tone.
>
> The following is the archived messages;
>
> QUESTION:
> I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device
that would be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the
audio output is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this
output to DC voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning
light/whatever?
>
__________________________________________________________________________
____
> ANSWER; (from Dynon Technical Support)
> The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak, at 1k ohm of
impedance, and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel
and put noise in your headset. We generate different noises for
different alarms (general alarm, AoA, autopilot, altitude alerter...)
>
> If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an
external light, we can't be much help, as we didn't design it for that
nor have we ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
> some thought it could be done for sure though.
>
__________________________________________________________________________
__
>
>
> My question is; with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A
produces(described by Dynon Tech Support), how can I tap into that
signal for my LED circuit, and not screw it up for the intercom "audio
in"?
>
> Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts
with Hotmail. Get busy.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks |
| From: | "rckol" <rckol(at)kaehlers.com> |
Jef,
You can order these over the internet in a variety of configurations from:
http://www.kirbyrisk.com/
Search for 15711 and 15712 to see the variety of single and dual bus configurations.
You will need a data sheet to help you sort these options out if you don't
already have one.
If you are going to want a terminal removal tool, you might order it at the same
time.
You will have to order the Packcon III terminals elsewhere I think.
You can ignore all of the stuff about opening an account if you are just placing
a credit card order.
Dick Kaehler
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297576#297576
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Etienne=2C
No=2C I think I'd rather try to just "capture" all the alarms that the un
it sends. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to incoporate a microproce
ssor. My present LED circuit simply needs the 5-15 volt electrical source
to activate=2C then=2C similar to the KIT Knight 2000 rolling strobe LEDs
=2C my circuit visually warns me of an alarm. I've got the LED circuit don
e=2C I just would like to know if I can tap into that audio alarm signal.
Is there a relatively easy way of tapping into this alarm signal=2C and n
ot ruin it's intended purpose?
"The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak=2C at 1k ohm of impedance
=2C and between 200 and 1KHz."
Thanks=2C
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussmann fuse blocks |
Jef...
The Bussman fuse blocks use separate terminals that are crimped to the wire then
inserted into the fuse block. This requires the use of the appropriate crimper.
The terminal is what determines the wire size. The terminals are sized
for a range of wire sizes. Most of the connections require the 18-22 size terminals
as most feeders are in this range. The max. wire size terminals are #10
which is typically fused at 30 amps which is more suitably fused with a separate
maxi fuse or fusable link. The 10-16 size terminal crimp to #16 wire very
well. The only problem I had was crimping #22. The tabs that form the crimp
on the terminal are too large to reliably crimp this small a wire. I carefully
soldered the end of the wire opposite the end that exits the terminal being
careful not to allow solder to wick down the wire past the end of the terminal.
(This will cause the wire to become solid and drastically increase the
likelihood of fatigue failure at the terminal/wire interface).
There are no installation instructions as to the insertion of the terminals into
the block. For me it required trial and error with a couple of spare terminals
to figure out the correct insertion orientation. Be sue to get the terminal
removal tool (it looks like a very small (10mm wide) two pronged fork).
Hope this helps...
Chris Stone
RV-8
Oregon
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>Thanks for your reply, and I will contact Waytek.
>I suppose you did use such fuse block on your rv.
>
>According the MIH website the fuse block is for 20-12 AWG wire size; however
>the Bussmann datasheet
> http://www.bussmann.com/pdf/39dd59f2-bbbd-48b4-88cf-40977f474e1f.pdf
>mentions # 10-16 AWG.
>How should I understand that or how did you solve that?
>Your help is very welcome; I'm just an amateur.
>
>Jef Vervoort, 91031
>Belgium.
>
>
>
>
>Jef...
>
>All of the Bussman fuse products are available from Waytek.
>
>Chris Stone
>RV-8 OR
>
>
>http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M50/140/350/250/1/ATO/ATC%20Fuse%20Blo
>cks/Blade%20Fuses%20And%20Accessories/Circuit%20Protection/
>
>
>Does anyone know if this company is still in
>business: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
>
>My emails are without reply.
>
>
>
>Does anyone know of another source for these fuse
>blocks, to be mounted in the main panel of an RV9 ?
>
>
>
>Jef Vervoort
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
jonlaury,
You can place the current sensor wherever it will give you the most useful information.
The current sensors in Z-13/8 provide the total current produced by
each alternator. Some builders locate the current sensor between the battery
and main contactor. In that location and under normal conditions, the ammeter
will show battery charging current, which is not very useful information. Other
builders locate the current sensor in the wire that feeds the main power bus.
In this location, the ammeter shows the total current used by the aircraft
(except for current used for battery charging and for devices connected directly
to the battery bus). It can be useful to know the total aircraft electrical
load and the power consumed by each device. In case of alternator failure,
a knowledgeable pilot can shut off unneeded devices that consume the most power.
Given a choice between a voltmeter and an ammeter, a voltmeter is more useful.
With a modern EFIS, one can monitor both voltage and current without having
extra gauges on the panel. It does not matter where the current is monitored
(or if it is monitored). Just be aware of the advantages and disadvantages
of different locations.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297587#297587
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
Ok, fair enough :-) I'm into microprocessors, so sometimes default to them
for a solution!
I would suggest simply feeding the signal line through a diode, 4k7
resistor, then into the base of a switching transistor (2N2222 would be
perfect for this). Your LED circuit then goes between +12V and the collector
of the transistor. Emitter goes straight to ground. You may also want to put
a 0.1uF cap between the node between the diode and the resistor, and ground
to keep the circuit active whilst the audio signal switches through ground
endlessly. (I would draw a diagram, but am a bit stretched at the moment -
shout if the explanaition isn't clear).
There is probably an less crude solution, but failing all else, I'm
confident this would work...
Comments?
Speaking of crude, here's an ascii-pic:
______________________ +12V
|
*00*000
|
sig-|>|-,-/\/\/\--|<
= |
________*|*__________*|*__ 0V
**
**
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010 15:09, Mike Welch wrote:
> Etienne,
>
> No, I think I'd rather try to just "capture" all the alarms that the unit
> sends. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to incoporate a
> microprocessor. My present LED circuit simply needs the 5-15
> volt electrical source to activate, then, similar to the KIT Knight 2000
> rolling strobe LEDs, my circuit visually warns me of an alarm. I've got the
> LED circuit done, I just would like to know if I can tap into that audio
> alarm signal.
>
> Is there a relatively easy way of tapping into this alarm signal, and not
> ruin it's intended purpose?
>
>
> "*The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak, at 1k ohm of
> impedance, and between 200 and 1KHz."*
> **
> Thanks,
> Mike Welch
> **
>
> ------------------------------
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
> Hotmail. Get busy.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Peter,
I have learned that assumptions are often incorrect while conducting experiments
under intermittent failure conditions. Do not assume that nothing is wrong
with your headset just because it worked in other aircraft. Try another known-working
headset in your One Design for several hours. If there are still intermittent
problems, there could be a bad connection at the mic jack or at the
connector on the back of the radio.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297594#297594
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Etienne=2C
Your suggestion is VERY close to what I thought would work=2C although I
lack the true knowledge to actually design it. I do=2C however=2C understa
nd what you're getting at!
Your typed diagram doesn't quite clear things up=2C although I do underst
and your description well enough to build it. Maybe=2C when you get some t
ime later=2C you could post a drawing.
In my thoughts of a way to do this=3B I began with the diode=2C then
the resistor=2C and then either a transistor=2C or an integrated circuit (l
ike an astable circuit using the 555 timer)=2C to pull out the power I need
ed.
I spent my career as a concrete contractor and general contractor=2C and
lack the expertise to design an electrical circuit. I can=2C generally=2C
build a "basic" circuit=2C because I took some electronics training in the
military 30 years ago.
Thanks a lot!!
Mike Welch
Date: Thu=2C 13 May 2010 15:53:38 +0200
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal
From: etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com
Ok=2C fair enough :-) I'm into microprocessors=2C so sometimes default to t
hem for a solution!
I would suggest simply feeding the signal line through a diode=2C 4k7 resis
tor=2C then into the base of a switching transistor (2N2222 would be perfec
t for this). Your LED circuit then goes between +12V and the collector of t
he transistor. Emitter goes straight to ground. You may also want to put a
0.1uF cap between the node between the diode and the resistor=2C and ground
to keep the circuit active whilst the audio signal switches through ground
endlessly. (I would draw a diagram=2C but am a bit stretched at the moment
- shout if the explanaition isn't clear).
There is probably an less crude solution=2C but failing all else=2C I'm con
fident this would work...
Comments?
Speaking of crude=2C here's an ascii-pic:
______________________ +12V
|
00000
|
sig-|>|-=2C-/\/\/\--|<
= |
________|__________|__ 0V
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010 15:09=2C Mike Welch wrote:
Etienne=2C
No=2C I think I'd rather try to just "capture" all the alarms that the un
it sends. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to incoporate a microproce
ssor. My present LED circuit simply needs the 5-15 volt electrical source
to activate=2C then=2C similar to the KIT Knight 2000 rolling strobe LEDs
=2C my circuit visually warns me of an alarm. I've got the LED circuit don
e=2C I just would like to know if I can tap into that audio alarm signal.
Is there a relatively easy way of tapping into this alarm signal=2C and n
ot ruin it's intended purpose?
"The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak=2C at 1k ohm of impedance
=2C and between 200 and 1KHz."
Thanks=2C
Mike Welch
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail. Get busy.
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
jonlaury,
You can place the current sensor wherever it will give you the most
useful information. The current sensors in Z-13/8 provide the total
current produced by each alternator.
Joe is quite correct . . . and I would like
to apologize for my terse responses earlier.
There are reasons but they are not excuses . . .
I'll attempt to make amends.
Some builders locate the current sensor between the battery and main
contactor. In that location and under normal conditions, the ammeter
will show battery charging current, which is not very useful information.
It is also more difficult to do and requires
that the alternator b-lead be brought to the
main bus instead of tying it into the fat-wire
network on the firewall.
Since one of the design goals for Z-figures
is to eliminate bringing the alternator b-lead
into the cockpit, implementation of the battery
ammeter is more difficult. We don't want to
apply cranking current stresses to the ammeter
equipment and still expect it to be well calibrated
for normal operation.
Finally, interpreting the readings of a battery
ammeter take some study and understanding of
what the readings show under various operating
conditions.
Other builders locate the current sensor in the wire that feeds the
main power bus. In this location, the ammeter shows the total
current used by the aircraft (except for current used for battery
charging and for devices connected directly to the battery bus). It
can be useful to know the total aircraft electrical load and the
power consumed by each device. In case of alternator failure, a
knowledgeable pilot can shut off unneeded devices that consume the most power.
Given a choice between a voltmeter and an ammeter, a voltmeter is
more useful. With a modern EFIS, one can monitor both voltage and
current without having extra gauges on the panel. It does not matter
where the current is monitored (or if it is monitored). Just be
aware of the advantages and disadvantages of different locations.
Exactly. Jonlaury was wrestling with the trade-offs
of the various ammeter locations and getting a
handle on the significance/usefulness of the
readings.
When we put an instrument on the panel that
offers up NUMBERS that represent performance
values, the cognizant system designer considers
when and how those numbers are useful. In
the case of the Z13/8, normal operations may
load the e-bus to greater than 8A and it's
no problem as long as the main alternator is
functioning. An alternator loadmeter
in the SD-8 feed line allows the pilot to
do an as-needed load reduction on the e-bus
when conditions require a shift to Plan-B.
The legacy placement for ammeters has been
in either (1) battery ammeter like your grandpa's
Piper, Cessna and '52 Chevy, or (2) alternator/
generator loadmeters like the rest of general
aviation. But no matter where they are placed,
they'll offer very low-value data. In other
words, it's entirely possible and practical
to craft a system with no ammeters at all.
Active notification of low voltage combined
with what ever electrical system instrumentation
comes with your modern electro-whizzies
can be quite adequate to the task of airborne
electrical system management and crafting
of Plans A and B.
Plan-A says, "I can operate THIS list of
electro-whizzies." Plan-B says, "I can
operate THAT list of electro-whizzies."
It's better that you craft the two plans
before first flight rather than "on the
fly", no pun intended.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
"The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak, at 1k ohm of
impedance, and between 200 and 1KHz."
>
>I would suggest simply feeding the signal line through a diode, 4k7
>resistor, then into the base of a switching transistor (2N2222 would
>be perfect for this). Your LED circuit then goes between +12V and
>the collector of the transistor. Emitter goes straight to ground.
>You may also want to put a 0.1uF cap between the node between the
>diode and the resistor, and ground to keep the circuit active whilst
>the audio signal switches through ground endlessly. (I would draw a
>diagram, but am a bit stretched at the moment - shout if the
>explanaition isn't clear).
>
>There is probably an less crude solution, but failing all else, I'm
>confident this would work...
>
>Comments?
Etienne is on a useful track . . . I'll suggest the
following clarification/amplification:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Dynon_Alarm_Tone_Detector.pdf
This circuit ASSUMES that when no tone is present, that the
DC voltage on the Dynon Alarm Tone Output is zero volts.
Check this with your voltmeter before marching on . . .
The 10K isolation resistor reduces loading on the normal
audio signal.
The 2N3904 is a half-wave rectifier that pulls down
on the charge stored on the 1 uF tantalum electrolytic.
When the tone is present, the capacitor discharges
on positive excursions of the alarm tone through
the 1K ohm resistor and 2N3904. This in turn pulls
down on the base of 2N3906 and turns on the light.
The R/C time-constant of the 1uf capacitor and
a pair of 10K pull up resistors will keep the
light turned on during negative excursions of
the alarm tone signal. When the alarm tone goes
away, the two 10K resistors in series pull the
base of 2N3906 to the +12 rail and turns it
OFF.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Been there, done that: see http://vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#V-Speed
Auxiliary Display System
Thats the good news. The bad news is that it is no longer available.
Since the product was first introduced, Dynon subsequently added a
larger visual representation on screen and the audible alarm. Both of
these go a long way to mitigating the need for an external display.
Nevertheless, the product was popular... but it was too costly to
continue to sell at the price offered.
I might have some circuit boards and programmed microcontrollers left in
inventory that could be pried away, please contact me off list using the
email address on the vx aviation site.
Thanks
Vern Little
www.vx-aviation.com
From: Etienne Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal
Hi Mike
As an alternative, would it not be easier and more reliable to use the
serial stream output to get the AoA? Although this would involve a
microprocessor, you would have direct access to the real AoA value at
all times, not just when the alarm sounds.
If you are looking for a strobe that flashes for all alarms, then your
way is probably better, but if it's just for AoA, then I would suggest
looking at the serial stream.
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010, at 2:14 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
Group,
While searching Dynon's archives I found the following
correspondence from a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as
me......set the audio alert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits, I want it to also
power a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
The circuit is built, now I just need to know a good way to send a
power source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
Evidently, according to Dynon support, I can choose between a steady
tone, or an increasing rate intermittant tone, increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts, so I'd
choose the steady tone.
The following is the archived messages;
QUESTION:
I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device
that would be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the
audio output is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this
output to DC voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning
light/whatever?
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
ANSWER; (from Dynon Technical Support)
The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak, at 1k ohm of
impedance, and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel
and put noise in your headset. We generate different noises for
different alarms (general alarm, AoA, autopilot, altitude alerter...)
If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an
external light, we can't be much help, as we didn't design it for that
nor have we ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
some thought it could be done for sure though.
_________________________________________________________________________
___
My question is; with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A
produces(described by Dynon Tech Support), how can I tap into that
signal for my LED circuit, and not screw it up for the intercom "audio
in"?
Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
Mike Welch
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06:26:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Joe and Bob,
"Joe is quite correct . . . and I would like
to apologize for my terse responses earlier.
There are reasons but they are not excuses . . .
I'll attempt to make amends. "
Thank you both for your learned observations and attempts to understand my thinking
on this.
Bob, your prodigious and continuing contribution to the OBAM aircraft community
on this forum unequivocally qualifies you as the most patient teacher I've ever
encountered. I didn't think your response was "terse". I thought it was patient,
good-natured disgruntledness or self-effacing comic exasperation of having
explained, about a gazillion times on this forum, that knowing how many amps
your system is using is not very useful.
When I read your response, the annunciator light went on that says "oh yeah, I've
read this before" and felt foolish for wasting forum space.
And in spite of knowing how many amps are careening about my system, I also know
that it's only useful in making me feel like I'm more in control. Yet the control
freak in me wants to know. So with your and Joe's clarifications about
what the different placements of the current sensor mean, I will confidently sally
forth to appease my inner demons.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297626#297626
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Hi Vern=2C
For my present airplane (with the Dynon D10A=2C I already have built the
strobing LED circuit. I just needed clarification on how to grab some of t
hat audio signal=2C without screwing everything up.
So=2C at this time=2C and for what I already have=2C I think Bob's versio
n of Etienne's design is what I should go after.
However!! I do have another D10A that is planned for my GlaStar=2C and y
our circuitry would be a serious consideration.
I'll contact you off-list for more info.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Mike Welch
From: sprocket@vx-aviation.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal
Date: Thu=2C 13 May 2010 10:03:08 -0700
Been there=2C done that: see http://vx-aviation.com/page_2.html#V-Speed Au
xiliary Display System
Thats the good news. The bad news is that it is no longer available. Sinc
e the product was first introduced=2C Dynon subsequently added a larger vis
ual representation on screen and the audible alarm. Both of these go a lon
g way to mitigating the need for an external display. Nevertheless=2C the
product was popular... but it was too costly to continue to sell at the pr
ice offered.
I might have some circuit boards and programmed microcontrollers left in in
ventory that could be pried away=2C please contact me off list using the em
ail address on the vx aviation site.
Thanks
Vern Little
www.vx-aviation.com
From: Etienne Phillips
Sent: Wednesday=2C May 12=2C 2010 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal
Hi Mike
As an alternative=2C would it not be easier and more reliable to use the se
rial stream output to get the AoA? Although this would involve a microproce
ssor=2C you would have direct access to the real AoA value at all times=2C
not just when the alarm sounds.
If you are looking for a strobe that flashes for all alarms=2C then your wa
y is probably better=2C but if it's just for AoA=2C then I would suggest lo
oking at the serial stream.
Thanks
Etienne
On 13 May 2010=2C at 2:14 AM=2C Mike Welch wrote:
Group=2C
While searching Dynon's archives I found the following correspondence fro
m a guy that wanted to do exactly the same thing as me......set the audio a
lert signal to ALSO activate a line of LEDs.
In addition to the audio tone that the D10A emits=2C I want it to also po
wer a "555 timer/decade counter---LED strobe circuit" that I built.
The circuit is built=2C now I just need to know a good way to send a pow
er source to it from th D10A's alarm signal.
Evidently=2C according to Dynon support=2C I can choose between a steady
tone=2C or an increasing rate intermittant tone=2C increasing in frequency
the closer one gets to critical AOA.
I believe my decade counter circuit needs a solid 5-15volts=2C so I'd cho
ose the steady tone.
The following is the archived messages=3B
QUESTION:
I am interested in connecting the AOA audio on my D10A to a device that wou
ld be audible or visible in the cabin of the RV-6. I assume the audio outpu
t is a modulated signal. Is there an easy way to convert this output to DC
voltage that would drive a beeper/buzzer/warning light/whatever?
___________________________________________________________________________
___
ANSWER=3B (from Dynon Technical Support)
The output of the audio line is 16.8V peak-peak=2C at 1k ohm of impedance
=2C and between 200 and 1KHz. It will drive into an audio panel and put noi
se in your headset. We generate different noises for different alarms (gene
ral alarm=2C AoA=2C autopilot=2C altitude alerter...)
If you're looking to put it into a external buzzer or drive an external lig
ht=2C we can't be much help=2C as we didn't design it for that nor have we
ever attempted it. With a small op-amp and
some thought it could be done for sure though.
___________________________________________________________________________
_
My question is=3B with the audio alarm signal(s) that the D10A produces(d
escribed by Dynon Tech Support)=2C how can I tap into that signal for my LE
D circuit=2C and not screw it up for the intercom "audio in"?
Any ideas? Thanks for your help!!
Mike Welch
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail. Get busy.
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tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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tribution
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tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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Release Date: 05/13/10 06:26:00
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi Chris
"Be sue to get the terminal removal tool (it looks
like a very small (10mm wide) two pronged fork)."
I never saw a
tool like that. Who sells them?
Perhaps this:
http://www.handsontools.com/Lisle-13120-Electrical-Connector-Separator_p_5706.html
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: re: IVO Prop Motor Current Limiter and Electronic |
The instructions do say not to shorten the wires.
>From a support standpoint, it makes sense for IVO to specify that no changes
be made to the system they know works as advertised.
>From a physics standpoint, a couple of feet of 16AWG wire isn't going to
measurably affect the current to the motor or when that CB trips. If
anything, less wire should mean more current and make the breaker trip
quicker.
(Not everyone follows the instructions)
Dennis
----------------------------
Is it true that IVO insists that the supplied wiring to the prop not be
shortened as it is part of the current limiting to protect the motor gears?
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
And in spite of knowing how many amps are careening about my system,
I also know that it's only useful in making me feel like I'm more in
control. Yet the control freak in me wants to know. So with your and
Joe's clarifications about what the different placements of the
current sensor mean, I will confidently sally forth to appease my inner demons.
Everyone learns differently. If some new light
bulbs have lit up for you, then what we've done
here is a good thing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks |
Hello Ron,
Waytek has sold them although I don't see them in the current web catalog. They
are a terminal removal tool for the BUSSMANN 15712-14-06-21A (Waytek 46074)
The Waytek terminal P/N is 46074 for the Bussman blocks for which the removal
tool is designed.
I can send you a sketch. Very easy to make from a piece of ~.030-.040 thick steel.
chris stone
RV-8
Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: May 13, 2010 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse blocks
Hi Chris
"Be sue to get the terminal removal tool (it looks
like a very small (10mm wide) two pronged fork)."
I never saw a
tool like that. Who sells them?
Perhaps this:
http://www.handsontools.com/Lisle-13120-Electrical-Connector-Separator_p_5706.html
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Bob=2C
Regarding your circuit=2C I've got the 3906=2C but I don't have the 3904.
Is it okay to switch the 3904 with a 2N4401? I have some of these on han
d.
Also=2C I'm having a bit of trouble finding the specific electrolytic tan
talum capacitor on Digikey. Do you have a part number? Thanks.
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox
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N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi Chris
"I can send you a sketch. Very easy to make from a piece of
~.030-.040 thick steel."
If you don't mind, please send a
sketch.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
At 09:21 AM 5/14/2010, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
> Regarding your circuit, I've got the 3906, but I don't have the
> 3904. Is it okay to switch the 3904 with a 2N4401? I have some of
> these on hand.
ANY jelly bean pnp, npn pair can be used here. It's
exceedingly non-critical.
>
> Also, I'm having a bit of trouble finding the specific
> electrolytic tantalum capacitor on Digikey. Do you have a part
> number? Thanks.
ANY 1 uf tantalum (or aluminum for that matter)
would be fine too. Radio Shack has a suitable
part here:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId 62392
If you're ordering OTHER things from Digikey too then
this one would work.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=399-3528-ND
Did you check the output voltage when no tone is present?
Also, it occurs to me that the output tone COULD
be capacitively coupled . . . which means we'll need
to add a diode to the circuit. But it will be a RS
part too . . . so marching ahead with the current
experiment is a good thing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Bussmann fuse blocks |
Please put it on the list..
Bill B
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse blocks
Hi Chris
"I can send you a sketch. Very easy to make from a piece of ~.030-.040 thick
steel."
If you don't mind, please send a sketch.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Bob=2C
Mike @ Dynon Tech support confirms--zero voltage when alarm is not soundi
ng.
What about that diode you mentioned? Probably wouldn't hurt=2C right?
And why do they still call it Radio Shack? Shouldn't rename themselves C
ell Phone Shack??
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual power source into diode pair |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
In looking at Z-19 Engine Primary and Secondary Switches, does having two fused
supplies through the switch to the diode pair double the current potential for
the single wire downstream from the diodes and does it need to be sized to handle
the sum of the fused supplies?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297797#297797
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shunt/Hall Sensor placement |
John
I also appeased my "demons" and inserted current detections where I wanted
it. I'm not an aero electric expert, but I've been flying numerous
aircraft for 35 years and I know what info I like to have displayed in the
cockpit. I wanted current measurements.
So, I inserted a HE device along the wire from the alternator to the #1
battery and a shunt on the wire from the #2 battery. My thinking was that I
could monitor the amps going to the #1 battery to see how much load was on
the alternator. It works great in that function and shows the high amps
used to recharge the battery and then once it is recharged, it shows the load
being used by the entire aircraft. The shunt will indicate the amps being
drawn from the #2 battery should the alternator and #1 battery fail.
I like having information in the cockpit. Control freak? Perhaps. Guess
I've been a control freak for 35 years and didn't realize it.
For me, just as I like to know what my fuel flow is, what my oil pressure
is, what my system voltage is, - I also like to know my amperage load.
Build it the way you like it.
Stan Sutterfield
So with your and Joe's clarifications about
what the different placements of the current sensor mean, I will
confidently sally
forth to appease my inner demons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of solder over |
crimp?
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
What is the disadvantage of using a 36 or 50 pin solder pot d-sub connectors (while
having an extra set of hands to insert wires) where you heat shrink over
solder pot and wire compared to using much more expensive machined pin connectors
that are crimped?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297806#297806
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of solder |
over crimp?
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
I believe the advantage of machined pins is a better electrical connection between
the male and female pins. Whether to solder or to crimp is another issue.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297817#297817
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of solder |
over crimp?
On 5/15/2010 12:23 AM, rparigoris wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rparigoris"
>
> What is the disadvantage of using a 36 or 50 pin solder pot d-sub connectors
(while having an extra set of hands to insert wires) where you heat shrink over
solder pot and wire compared to using much more expensive machined pin connectors
that are crimped?
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
Hi Ron,
Assuming that the mating areas of the pins/sockets are gold plated,
there's no electrical or reliability advantage of one over the other.
Contrary to popular hangar-myth, there's no more danger of wire failure
outside the joint with solder than with crimp, assuming that both are
properly supported outside the joint. Actually, there's a real advantage
of using solder type connectors: there's no danger of a pin backing out
in use, which happens fairly often with crimp style connectors.
The 'disadvantage' is that the skillset required to solder a multi-pin
connector properly takes a bit longer to develop than the skillset to
squeeze the handles of a crimp tool. (That's basically why crimp was
developed: higher productivity & ability to use lower skilled labor).
Once you acquire the proper tools (soldering iron, etc) & develop the
skills, you can fabricate a cable that will be just as (or more)
reliable as any made with crimps. It will just take a bit longer to do
it, and you won't be able to move pins around if you get a wire in the
wrong location while soldering. Also, once your skills are adequate,
there's no need for heat shrink over the joints, since the exposed area
of the wire will be very short (just enough to touch with the end of the
solder) and will be a rigid extension of the pin itself (can't 'lean
over' to touch the next bare wire). Remember, the shell will provide
proper support to prevent flexing at the transition from rigid to
flexible wire.
If you already have a good, controlled heat, fine tip iron, buy a cheap
9pin Dsub connector & start practicing.
Charlie
Didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I was an electronics tech
in a couple of past lives.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap Motor Circuit using Bosch Ice Cube relays |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Came across this: Simple tidy and inexpensive.
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/relays.html
and then look at "Wiring instructions"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297834#297834
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of solder |
over crimp?
Try soldering when you are upside down underneath your panel and you need to
make a wiring change... you'll appreciate crimp connectors much more! For
example, Garmin introduced frequency selection on their X96 GPSs and then
Dynon announced their HSI functions on their EFIS systems, both well after
product introduction. These changes only required the removal and
reinsertion of existing crimp wires to enable the functions in my aircraft
(a bit of foresight helped as well).
You can purchase the pins from Steinair or B&C for a good price, along with
the necessary tools. I've been soldering for more than 40 years, and I like
the crimp pins better than the solder cup connectors.
Vern
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of
solder over crimp?
>
>
> On 5/15/2010 12:23 AM, rparigoris wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>> "rparigoris"
>>
>> What is the disadvantage of using a 36 or 50 pin solder pot d-sub
>> connectors (while having an extra set of hands to insert wires) where you
>> heat shrink over solder pot and wire compared to using much more
>> expensive machined pin connectors that are crimped?
>>
>> Ron Parigoris
>>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Assuming that the mating areas of the pins/sockets are gold plated,
> there's no electrical or reliability advantage of one over the other.
> Contrary to popular hangar-myth, there's no more danger of wire failure
> outside the joint with solder than with crimp, assuming that both are
> properly supported outside the joint. Actually, there's a real advantage
> of using solder type connectors: there's no danger of a pin backing out
> in use, which happens fairly often with crimp style connectors.
>
> The 'disadvantage' is that the skillset required to solder a multi-pin
> connector properly takes a bit longer to develop than the skillset to
> squeeze the handles of a crimp tool. (That's basically why crimp was
> developed: higher productivity & ability to use lower skilled labor).
>
> Once you acquire the proper tools (soldering iron, etc) & develop the
> skills, you can fabricate a cable that will be just as (or more)
> reliable as any made with crimps. It will just take a bit longer to do
> it, and you won't be able to move pins around if you get a wire in the
> wrong location while soldering. Also, once your skills are adequate,
> there's no need for heat shrink over the joints, since the exposed area
> of the wire will be very short (just enough to touch with the end of the
> solder) and will be a rigid extension of the pin itself (can't 'lean
> over' to touch the next bare wire). Remember, the shell will provide
> proper support to prevent flexing at the transition from rigid to
> flexible wire.
>
> If you already have a good, controlled heat, fine tip iron, buy a cheap
> 9pin Dsub connector & start practicing.
>
> Charlie
> Didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I was an electronics tech
> in a couple of past lives.
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 18:26:00
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of solder |
over crimp?
At 12:23 AM 5/15/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>What is the disadvantage of using a 36 or 50 pin solder pot d-sub
>connectors (while having an extra set of hands to insert wires)
>where you heat shrink over solder pot and wire compared to using
>much more expensive machined pin connectors that are crimped?
>
>Ron Parigoris
Different skill set, more difficult to correct errors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: D-sub connectors, what is disadvantage of |
solder over crimp?
At 06:43 AM 5/15/2010, you wrote:
>
>I believe the advantage of machined pins is a better electrical
>connection between the male and female pins. Whether to solder or
>to crimp is another issue.
Hmmmm . . that may well be. Certainly the machined pins with
their 4-quad springs achieve a more robust mating between
pins . . . but event the Garmin's and King's use formed
pins that are crimped. So I suspect that for small signal
applications, the performance differences are insignificant.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground power contactor diodes |
>Comments/Questions: I purchased a pre wired contactor from B&C for
>ground power,when I received it I found it had one diode #IN5400 on
>the two short post and a wire on one small post to one of the large
>post, question is you have two Radio Shack diodes #IN5402 on your
>drawing do I need to change the wiring and put the two Radio Shack
>diodes on or will it work like it is. Thanks for any information.
It will 'work' as received. Adding the second diode offers
some protection against the rare instance of reversed
polarity from a ground power source. Adding it is your
choice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Building a push to talk circuit |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I bought a Vertex radio and need a push to talk switching circuit for it. I
just can't turn down the VOX actuation level enough to deal with a pusher
engine almost above my head, and a two stroke one at that. There is one
listed in the manual, but there is no part no. listed. As it happens I have
all the plugs and sockets to build one.
If I understand how this this works I need two switches, one normally open,
the other NC. The NO switch connects into the receiver and the NC into the
transmitter so that when the button is pushed the receiver is grounded and
the transmitter opened.
Does anyone on the list have one they've built, a drawing of the circuit, or
a web address where info can be found?
Thanks,
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jebrick(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | SL30 Comm Failure message |
After 4 1/2 years without trouble, my Apollo SL30 has begun to show this
message briefly on startup. Then it resolves itself and does not reoccur in
flight. Garmin bought out Apollo, long ago and has made some upgrades I
think. Hope I can avoid sending this unit back to Garmin.
Any ideas?
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A 35 amp C/B switch to control a Facet Aux Fuel Pump!!! |
| From: | "FrankC" <chillyz(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Heh guys. I'm sort of new at this so give me a little slack. I'm trying to re-wire
my aircraft with the proper wiring and changing out my C/Bs using Klixons.
Question: In my removal of the old B&P C/Bs I came across one that was a 35-amp
B&P C/B switch that was controlling my Facet Aux Fuel Pump. The funny thing
is that Facets website says that it requires a max of 1 amp for the pump. I
thought this was unusual to me. Any comments on why someone would wire it up
with a 35amp C/B switch? Am I wrong in my thinking? Should I be using a much
smaller rated C/B switch? Need lots of help. Not real savvy on wiring. Thanks
guys.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297930#297930
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Comm Failure message |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
John
Does it have an internal battery?
The 480 does and it gives out some messages when it starts to go bad. Call
the Garmin AT tech support people and ask them. They are great folks -
like Apollo/UPS.
John Schroeder
SL30, GNA480, GTX330, Lancair ES
> After 4 1/2 years without trouble, my Apollo SL30 has begun to show this
> message briefly on startup. Then it resolves itself and does not reoccur
> in
> flight. Garmin bought out Apollo, long ago and has made some upgrades I
> think. Hope I can avoid sending this unit back to Garmin.
> Any ideas?
>
> jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jebrick(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | SL30 Comm Failure message |
Nope, no internal battery. Will try to contact tech support tomorrow.
Thanks,
jb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SL30 Comm Failure message
John
Does it have an internal battery?
The 480 does and it gives out some messages when it starts to go bad. Call
the Garmin AT tech support people and ask them. They are great folks -
like Apollo/UPS.
John Schroeder
SL30, GNA480, GTX330, Lancair ES
> After 4 1/2 years without trouble, my Apollo SL30 has begun to show this
> message briefly on startup. Then it resolves itself and does not reoccur
> in
> flight. Garmin bought out Apollo, long ago and has made some upgrades I
> think. Hope I can avoid sending this unit back to Garmin.
> Any ideas?
>
> jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A 35 amp C/B switch to control a Facet Aux Fuel |
Pump!!!
At 07:10 PM 5/16/2010, you wrote:
>
>Heh guys. I'm sort of new at this so give me a little slack. I'm
>trying to re-wire my aircraft with the proper wiring and changing
>out my C/Bs using Klixons. Question: In my removal of the old B&P
>C/Bs I came across one that was a 35-amp B&P C/B switch that was
>controlling my Facet Aux Fuel Pump. The funny thing is that Facets
>website says that it requires a max of 1 amp for the pump. I
>thought this was unusual to me. Any comments on why someone would
>wire it up with a 35amp C/B switch? Am I wrong in my
>thinking? Should I be using a much smaller rated C/B switch? Need
>lots of help. Not real savvy on wiring. Thanks guys.
Yup, if the pump is the only thing powered by this
switch/breaker, then it SHOULD be a device sized
for the wire that connects the pump to the bus. Are
you sure this switch/breaker was being used for
BOTH its capabilities as a switch AND a breaker,
or just a switch. In other words, does the switch/
breaker bolt right to a bus bar along with other
breakers . . . or dose it have WIRES on both
terminals, one of which goes to the REAL breaker
on the bus. You may find that this otherwise
oversized critter was being used just for its
functionality as a switch and the real circuit
protection is right at the bus.
If it IS a dual purpose device, then by all
means, drop to a 5A device. 35 is MUCH
too large. What kind of airplane is this?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
Ron,
There should be a PDF attached to this message. Sorry for the delay.
Chris Stone
Hi Chris
"I can send you a sketch. Very easy to make from a piece of
~.030-.040 thick steel."
If you don't mind, please send a
sketch.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
At 08:06 AM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>Ron,
>
>There should be a PDF attached to this message. Sorry for the delay.
>
>Chris Stone
Chris, I'd like to archive your sketch on the
website. Can you give me a list of the Bussmann
fuse blocks to which this tool applies?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building a push to talk circuit |
At 02:44 PM 5/16/2010, you wrote:
>I bought a Vertex radio and need a push to talk switching circuit
>for it. I just can't turn down the VOX actuation level enough to
>deal with a pusher engine almost above my head, and a two stroke one
>at that. There is one listed in the manual, but there is no part no.
>listed. As it happens I have all the plugs and sockets to build one.
>If I understand how this this works I need two switches, one
>normally open, the other NC. The NO switch connects into the
>receiver and the NC into the transmitter so that when the button is
>pushed the receiver is grounded and the transmitter opened.
>Does anyone on the list have one they've built, a drawing of the
>circuit, or a web address where info can be found?
If the adapter offered by the mfgr is
intended to work with traditional general
aviation headsets, then you only need a
single, normally open, push button.
Can you point me to a downloadable users
manual or installation manual for this
radio?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon D10A audio alarm output signal |
Bob,
Mike (at) Dynon Tech support confirms--zero voltage when alarm is not
sounding.
Okay, it would be interesting to see their output schematic
but . . .
What about that diode you mentioned? Probably wouldn't hurt, right?
. . . you are correct. We can design for the worst case
and assume the output is capacitor coupled. I should have
done that first step out of the gate. See changes
to the schematic at:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Dynon_Alarm_Tone_Detector_A.pdf
And why do they still call it Radio Shack? Shouldn't rename
themselves Cell Phone Shack??
Hmmm . . . Radio Shack has indeed experienced
a constellation of changes in marketing philosophy
over the years. The fact that they still exist
amongst the big-box outlets is a demonstration of
their recipes for success. But when you've got many
store fronts and advertisements spread over so much
area, its a sure bet that their logo and brand name
have significant good-will value.
I suspect the ol' "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
rule is in effect here.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building a push to talk circuit |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, Page 45 has a drawing of the push to talk switch installed, but no
circuit info.
Rick
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 02:44 PM 5/16/2010, you wrote:
>
>> I bought a Vertex radio and need a push to talk switching circuit for it.
>> I just can't turn down the VOX actuation level enough to deal with a pusher
>> engine almost above my head, and a two stroke one at that. There is one
>> listed in the manual, but there is no part no. listed. As it happens I have
>> all the plugs and sockets to build one.
>> If I understand how this this works I need two switches, one normally
>> open, the other NC. The NO switch connects into the receiver and the NC into
>> the transmitter so that when the button is pushed the receiver is grounded
>> and the transmitter opened.
>> Does anyone on the list have one they've built, a drawing of the circuit,
>> or a web address where info can be found?
>>
>
> If the adapter offered by the mfgr is
> intended to work with traditional general
> aviation headsets, then you only need a
> single, normally open, push button.
>
> Can you point me to a downloadable users
> manual or installation manual for this
> radio?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> ================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
| From: | "creightonious" <crouton(at)well.com> |
I have a Rotax with 2 completely independent, stand-alone EFI systems. There is
no commonality except fuel tank (at the selector) and electrical source (Batteries
and alternator)
Figure Z-19 is a great help, and I intend to base the system on it but In my system
there is no alternate or stand-by EFI system. Each is primary and co-equal,
and is to be used on alternate flights. Only one is used at any given time.
Therefore, each must be able to be powered by a main bus and by the endurance bus
(in the event of alternator failure or the failure of 1 battery or the failure
of an EFI system).
One scheme for powering these is from an EFI bus powered by the main or engine
bus and by the endurance bus with each feed isolated by a schottky diode to prevent
feeding a dead bus.
I really am at a conceptual dead end here and all assistance is appreciated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297994#297994
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building a push to talk circuit |
At 12:01 PM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>Bob, Page 45 has a drawing of the push to talk switch installed, but
>no circuit info.
>
>Rick
That helps!
It wasn't clear as to the number and styles
of connectors. I see that you're wanting to
ADD ptt into an existing, traditional A/C
microphone path.
You'll need a 3-wire, .206/.210 plug and appropriate
mating jack . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/206-210_3-Ckt_Microphone.jpg
a handily mounted pushbutton . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/spst150ma2.jpg
and wire like this . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Push-to-Talk_Adapter.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
At 02:32 PM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have a Rotax with 2 completely independent, stand-alone EFI
>systems. There is no commonality except fuel tank (at the selector)
>and electrical source (Batteries and alternator)
>Figure Z-19 is a great help, and I intend to base the system on it
>but In my system there is no alternate or stand-by EFI system. Each
>is primary and co-equal, and is to be used on alternate
>flights. Only one is used at any given time.
>Therefore, each must be able to be powered by a main bus and by the
>endurance bus (in the event of alternator failure or the failure of
>1 battery or the failure of an EFI system).
>One scheme for powering these is from an EFI bus powered by the main
>or engine bus and by the endurance bus with each feed isolated by a
>schottky diode to prevent feeding a dead bus.
>I really am at a conceptual dead end here and all assistance is appreciated.
Use Z-16. Put each EFI on its own switch. #1
from a battery bus (not shown but easily added)
and #2 from the main bus. If the engine
is in trouble if BOTH systems are ON, then
arrange some form of mechanical lockout for
TWO SEPARATE switches to prevent both being
ON at the same time.
Exercise due diligence in maintaining your
battery such that its capacity is KNOWN
before flight. You'll save weight, money,
system complexity, and gain better system
reliability.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
| From: | "rckol" <rckol(at)kaehlers.com> |
>Very easy to make from a piece of ~.030-.040 thick steel.
Ron,
This means the dimension of 0.40 on the drawing should be 0.04?
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298003#298003
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building a push to talk circuit |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
It's not often when an electronics project can be built from my stategic
supplies (junk) box, but I'm pretty sure this one can. I have the plug and
socket from the previous radio installation and the switch is already
mounted in the stick. I may have to sneak out to the hangar and build this
tonight.
Thanks Bob,
Rick
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 12:01 PM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Page 45 has a drawing of the push to talk switch installed, but no
>> circuit info.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> That helps!
>
> It wasn't clear as to the number and styles
> of connectors. I see that you're wanting to
> ADD ptt into an existing, traditional A/C
> microphone path.
>
> You'll need a 3-wire, .206/.210 plug and appropriate
> mating jack . . .
>
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/206-210_3-Ckt_Microphone.jpg
>
> a handily mounted pushbutton . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/spst150ma2.jpg
>
> and wire like this . . .
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Push-to-Talk_Adapter.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building a push to talk circuit |
At 04:09 PM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>It's not often when an electronics project can be built from my
>stategic supplies (junk) box, but I'm pretty sure this one can. I
>have the plug and socket from the previous radio installation and
>the switch is already mounted in the stick. I may have to sneak out
>to the hangar and build this tonight.
Long runs of wire in the adapter are usually
a shielded pair with the shield carrying common
ground. However, try twisting a trio of 22AWG
wires together with a drill motor. Keep tension
on wires while twisting. Twist them tight enough
to get 4-6 turns per inch. Then before you open
the chuck, reverse the drill and slowly "untwist" while
relaxing tension. If the trio tends to "throw a loop"
then put the tension back on after you've straightened
it out and untwisted some more.
If you open the chuck with a lot of twisting force
in the wires, the trio will tangle up on the floor
like an apoplectic snake.
I think you'll find the twisted trio sufficiently
immune to electro-statically coupled noise.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Barber <cbarber(at)TexasAttorney.net> |
| Subject: | Preferred method |
Over the past few years I have become pretty comfortable with basic 12volt wiring
for my Velocity SE/Rotary install.
I have most of the panel complete without too much worry about it being good to
go. It consist of a Dynon Skyview, two King 125 radio's, old transponder, King
89b GPS, intercom and audio panel.
I have installed a 7 inch touch screen to run from a Netbook computer with solid
state memory. I want to keep PDF files of the plane as well as Anywhere Map
usage with this small but pretty powerful computer. Also, some onboard entertainment.
My question is, what is the best way to wire this small computer into the ships
power. I have had suggested that I buy a cigarette adapter plug and power supply
and just plug it in that way, however, I am wanting a more direct and permanent
connection. I am not sure how well the computer will play with the 12volt
system since it expects a wall plug. I do not know if there is a conventional
wisdom method for this type of install. Pardon my ignorance. What may y'all
suggest? My skills are much better than three years ago, but still pretty
limited and what may be very obvious to you, well, is not so much for me.
Thanks.
All the best,
Chris Barber
Houston, GSOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preferred method |
>
>My question is, what is the best way to wire this small computer
>into the ships power.
What are the voltage and current ratings on the
ac mains power supply? Usually, these small computers
run on 19 volts DC or so at a couple amps.
It would not be difficult to build a permanently
installed 14-29v up-converter with the appropriate
connector to mate with the computer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad Shafer <bshafer(at)extremenetworks.com> |
| Subject: | One sensor to two data displays |
For redundancy and convenience, I want use both an EIS 4000 and a Dynon to
display engine data. Can I use the same sensor for both? How would I wire i
t to prevent any crosstalk between the EIS and Dynon?
Thanks,
Brad
________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
| From: | "creightonious" <crouton(at)well.com> |
Bob and all,
I should have added that my all-electric Rotax has an internally-regulated 50amp
alternator, belt driven off the back of the engine. The intake plenum blocks
access to the pad at the gearbox, so a standby alternator is not an option.
I don't know that Z-16 is applicable.
A design goal is to have a real 2.5 hours in the event of an alternator failure.
Engine system and e-radio load (including contactor) should total 12 amps.
I don't believe the stock charging system would handle even that load on a continuous
basis-to say nothing of adding non-e loads like lighting, gauges, other
radios, etc.
Speaking of contactors, is a 40 amp Bosch style relay an alternative? Saving .8
amps is worth someting.
I've been thinking 2 batteries for so long I'm having trouble letting go of Z-19.
But 1ea 35 amp battery is lighter than 2ea 18amp ones...
Creighton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298033#298033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
Here are the Bussman fuse blocks that the terminal removal tool will work with:
BUSSMANN BLOCK 15712-14-06-21A
20 position rear terminal split buss ATC fuse block
BUSSMAN BLOCK
24 position rear terminal triple split buss ATC fuse block
...chris
>>There should be a PDF attached to this message. Sorry for the delay.
>>
>>Chris Stone
>
> Chris, I'd like to archive your sketch on the
> website. Can you give me a list of the Bussmann
> fuse blocks to which this tool applies?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
At 12:29 AM 5/18/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob and all,
>I should have added that my all-electric Rotax has an
>internally-regulated 50amp alternator, belt driven off the back of
>the engine. The intake plenum blocks access to the pad at the
>gearbox, so a standby alternator is not an option.
>I don't know that Z-16 is applicable.
Hmmmm . . .is the "stock" permanent magnet alternator
still in place on the flywheel?
>A design goal is to have a real 2.5 hours in the event of an
>alternator failure. Engine system and e-radio load (including
>contactor) should total 12 amps.
If you still have the PM alternator, then 13/8 looks
attractive. The PM alternator is good for 18 amps
or so.
>
>I don't believe the stock charging system would handle even that
>load on a continuous basis-to say nothing of adding non-e loads like
>lighting, gauges, other radios, etc.
>Speaking of contactors, is a 40 amp Bosch style relay an
>alternative? Saving .8 amps is worth someting.
As a battery contactor? No. How close is your battery
mounted to where you sit? Can you consider a manual
battery switch?
>I've been thinking 2 batteries for so long I'm having trouble
>letting go of Z-19. But 1ea 35 amp battery is lighter than 2ea 18amp ones...
Hmmmm . . . 12A seems like a LOT of energy for
a system this size. Do you know anyone who is flying
or at least doing ground runs on this engine? It
would be VERY useful to do your deliberations with
REAL numbers.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One sensor to two data displays |
At 11:11 PM 5/17/2010, you wrote:
>For redundancy and convenience, I want use both an EIS 4000 and a
>Dynon to display engine data. Can I use the same sensor for both?
>How would I wire it to prevent any crosstalk between the EIS and Dynon?
>Thanks,
Which sensor? Most engine management systems will have
several. Further, the panel mounted instrument is tailored
to both the scale factor and power requirements for
any particular sensor. The probability is that the
two different systems are not identically configured
for a particular parameter. There are no "standards"
for the selection of sensors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussmann terminal tool sketch error |
To all Listers:
who are using my sketch of the Bussman terminal removal tool to fabricate the
part.
There is an error on the sketch. In the side view the .40 dimension should read
.04
Sorry for the error
...Chris
>
>
>>Very easy to make from a piece of ~.030-.040 thick steel.
>
>Ron,
>
>This means the dimension of 0.40 on the drawing should be 0.04?
>
>--------
>rck
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298003#298003
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Chris -
In this series of Bussmann fuse blocks, there are a lot of variations of
size and configuration. This is a modular line of blocks. We have two
20/8's installed in our Lancair ES. They are really great items. Each
comes with the extraction tool. I have the drawings from the company and
can plot them in a .pdf file if anyone is interested. Perhaps, if Bob
doesn't already have them, I could send them to him for posting.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
wrote:
>
>
> Here are the Bussman fuse blocks that the terminal removal tool will
> work with:
>
> BUSSMANN BLOCK 15712-14-06-21A
> 20 position rear terminal split buss ATC fuse block
>
> BUSSMAN BLOCK
> 24 position rear terminal triple split buss ATC fuse block
>
> ...chris
>
>
>>> There should be a PDF attached to this message. Sorry for the delay.
>>>
>>> Chris Stone
>>
>> Chris, I'd like to archive your sketch on the
>> website. Can you give me a list of the Bussmann
>> fuse blocks to which this tool applies?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
| From: | "rckol" <rckol(at)kaehlers.com> |
This is the Bussman 15710 Series ATC Fuse Block, which includes the 15711, 15712
and 15713 (single, dual and triple bus versions).
The tool is for the Delphi Pack-Conn III terminals that are inserted into the fuse
block. The tool is probably more specific to the terminals than the fuse
block.
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298085#298085
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse blocks terminal tool |
>I have the drawings from the company and
>can plot them in a .pdf file if anyone is interested. Perhaps, if Bob
>doesn't already have them, I could send them to him for posting.
I might but I'm away from the main data base computer.
If you would be so kind to send what you have, I'll
make sure it either is or will be part of the data
archives on the website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis" <dennis.glaeser(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One sensor to two data displays |
Does the Dynon have a serial port that can be configured to get EIS data?
I have an EIS4000 and a GRT Sport. The Sport can configure one of its serial input
as EIS input which drives the Sport's graphical engine page. The sensors
are connected only to the EIS4000. The Sport displays the exact same information
that the EIS does (only prettier :-) Of course GRT makes both products,
so this kind of integration is expected. Since the Dynon is a similar product,
hopefully they have a similar capability!
Dennis
-------------------------------------
For redundancy and convenience, I want use both an EIS 4000 and a Dynon to display
engine data. Can I use the same sensor for both? How would I wire it to prevent
any crosstalk between the EIS and Dynon?
Thanks,
Brad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One sensor to two data displays |
Worth a try, but not likely that the data streams are compatible.
It is possible to parallel sensors - depending on the type and what the
two devices do to energize the sensor. That said, it is not likely to
work with two systems that are specifically designed to work with
particular sensors.
For instance, the EIS-4000 has some straight voltage inputs and has some
inputs where it supplies current to the sensor. The VDO pressure
sensors are supplied current through a 470 ohm resistor in the
EIS-4000. If the line to the sensor were connected to a voltage input
on the Dynon, they would both function happily together. You would have
to figure out how to calibrate the Dynon in that case, but that could be
done by applying known pressures to the gauges. Same thing goes for
most of the temperature inputs (except the EGT and CHT) thermocouples.
In the case of temperature sensor, you would have to apply known
temperatures - boiling water, ice water, room temperature as compared
with a good thermometer.
The problem you will run into is when both the EIS-4000 and the Dynon
are supplying current to the same sensor - and looking at the specs it
seems like that is the norm. In that case, the only way to parallel
them would be to somehow disable the current drive in one of them. Of
course, if you do that and that instrument fails then you get no output
from that gauge.
I am actually doing the very thing you are trying to do. However, I
have an EIS-4000 and a BMA/EFIS One (I know, good news / bad news) that
has inputs that can be configured to provide sensor power or just accept
a voltage input.
Dick Tasker
Glaeser, Dennis wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis"
>
> Does the Dynon have a serial port that can be configured to get EIS data?
>
> I have an EIS4000 and a GRT Sport. The Sport can configure one of its serial
input as EIS input which drives the Sport's graphical engine page. The sensors
are connected only to the EIS4000. The Sport displays the exact same information
that the EIS does (only prettier :-) Of course GRT makes both products,
so this kind of integration is expected. Since the Dynon is a similar product,
hopefully they have a similar capability!
>
> Dennis
>
> -------------------------------------
> For redundancy and convenience, I want use both an EIS 4000 and a Dynon to display
engine data. Can I use the same sensor for both? How would I wire it to
prevent any crosstalk between the EIS and Dynon?
> Thanks,
> Brad
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted to |
Dynon EFIS
I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on which I
would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the
Lightspeed box.
I've wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and the
Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output parameters
of the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I do
not have a scope to check the pulses.
Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and runs
correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP readout,
albeit on a separate display.
Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon EFIS
Glenn,
did you try the Dynon Forum?! I'm not sure but I believe the signal
voltage needs to be above a certain value (>10V) for the Dynon to see
your lightspeed. What voltage do you see on that pin 6?
But I guess we have someone been there done that on that group.
br
Werner
On 19.05.2010 17:36, longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on which I
> would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the
> Lightspeed box.
>
> Ive wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and the
> Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
>
> Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output parameters
> of the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I do
> not have a scope to check the pulses.
>
> Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and runs
> correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP readout,
> albeit on a separate display.
>
> Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glenn
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon EFIS
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
I tried to do something similar, with my D180, but with a RWS EC3 EFI & a
single mag. It didn't like the combination and so I have just the EFI tied
in and that works just fine.
I would strongly suggest you post your message on the Dynon support forum.
You get direct answers from the Dynon staff - from the horses' mouth, so to
speak.
Sam
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:36 AM, wrote:
> I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on which I
> would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the Lightspee
d
> box.
>
> I=92ve wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and the
> Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
>
>
> Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output parameters o
f
> the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I do not ha
ve
> a scope to check the pulses.
>
>
> Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and runs
> correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP readout, alb
eit
> on a separate display.
>
>
> Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Glenn
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon EFIS
Thanks All,
Good point Werner. I will check the signal output voltage and post at
Dynon.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
readout posted to Dynon EFIS
Glenn,
did you try the Dynon Forum?! I'm not sure but I believe the signal
voltage needs to be above a certain value (>10V) for the Dynon to see
your lightspeed. What voltage do you see on that pin 6?
But I guess we have someone been there done that on that group.
br
Werner
On 19.05.2010 17:36, longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on which
I
> would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the
> Lightspeed box.
>
> I've wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and
the
> Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
>
> Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output
parameters
> of the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I do
> not have a scope to check the pulses.
>
> Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and runs
> correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP readout,
> albeit on a separate display.
>
> Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glenn
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
Does anyone know if there is a GRT Avionics forum on the web??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GRT Avionics |
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
Bill
ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a GRT Avionics forum on the web??
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GRT Avionics |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
I think GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com might be the 'droid you're looking for.
It's for the benefit of owners/users, not for prospective adopters,
wanna-be's, window shoppers and tire-kickers. Criticism of the product,
questions from prospective users, and comparisons to other brands seem to be
generally frowned upon, so YMMV - I know mine already has.
Bill B
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <
mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a GRT Avionics forum on the web??
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 24 volt and 12 volt Sharing Common Ground? |
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
This isn't an airplane application, but the answer may also be helpful for people
with mixed 24 volt and 12 volt systems on their airplanes.
I'm building a generator to help charge a large (2,500 pounds) stationary 24 volt
battery pack. I have a small, single cylinder, air cooled, diesel engine that
will drive a 24 volt truck alternator via "V" belt and pulleys.
The diesel engine has a 12 volt starting battery, 12 volt starter, and a 12 volt
alternator. It is negative ground, through the crankcase.
The truck alternator is nominal 24 volts, 70 amps. It is negative ground, through
its case. The output of the alternator will charge only the large stationary
battery pack, not the engine's 12 volt starting battery. It is driven by
a rubber "V" belt and pulley from the diesel engine.
Both the 12 volt and 24 volt systems are negative ground. Both the diesel engine
and the truck alternator will be bolted to the same steel rack. If I don't
do something to separate the grounds, both will be grounded to the same rack.
Is it okay for them to share a common ground?
The large battery pack, the large diesel generator, and my 120/240 volt AC house
circuits are all grounded to the earth (as in planet earth) in compliance with
US electrical codes. It seems like the 24 volt and 12 volt systems sharing
a common ground should be okay, since everything else is happy to share connection
with the earth, but some 24 volt alternators are supplied with an insulated
ground terminal so that the case is not grounded. That makes it seem like
sharing a common ground might be a problem.
Note: This may not be an ideal use of either the engine or the alternator, but
my main purpose is the fun of learning something new and if I happen to get something
useful out of it, that's even better!
Double note: The large battery pack is normally charged by solar photovoltaic
panels with a large diesel generator for backup. This new generator system I'm
building will not be the primary charging source; it's a backup to the backup.
Thanks for your help,
Dennis
Lancair Legacy, Z 13-8, with over 300 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298208#298208
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 24 volt and 12 volt Sharing Common Ground? |
At 02:00 PM 5/19/2010, you wrote:
This isn't an airplane application, but the answer may also be
helpful for people with mixed 24 volt and 12 volt systems on their airplanes.
I'm building a generator to help charge a large (2,500 pounds)
stationary 24 volt battery pack. I have a small, single cylinder,
air cooled, diesel engine that will drive a 24 volt truck alternator
via "V" belt and pulleys.
The diesel engine has a 12 volt starting battery, 12 volt starter,
and a 12 volt alternator. It is negative ground, through the crankcase.
Is it okay for them to share a common ground?
Absolutely . . .
The large battery pack, the large diesel generator, and my 120/240
volt AC house circuits are all grounded to the earth (as in planet
earth) in compliance with US electrical codes. It seems like the 24
volt and 12 volt systems sharing a common ground should be okay,
since everything else is happy to share connection with the earth,
but some 24 volt alternators are supplied with an insulated ground
terminal so that the case is not grounded. That makes it seem like
sharing a common ground might be a problem.
Note: This may not be an ideal use of either the engine or the
alternator, but my main purpose is the fun of learning something new
and if I happen to get something useful out of it, that's even better!
Double note: The large battery pack is normally charged by solar
photovoltaic panels with a large diesel generator for backup. This
new generator system I'm building will not be the primary charging
source; it's a backup to the backup.
Your "earth ground" analogy is a good one. "Ground"
simply implies a common reference. There ARE specialized
instances where one MIGHT want to operate an
alternator (-) terminal at something other than
common ground . . .
A few years ago, one of my builders wanted to have
a 14/28v aircraft with robust support of two
batteries in series. In this case, one 14v alternator
was operated in the conventional configuration. The
second alternator/battery combination was stacked
on top of the first. Thus the "top" alternator's
(-) connections needed to be isolated.
Haven't heard from this guy in many years. I don't
know if his project was ever finished.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
Does anyone know if there is a GRT Avionics forum on the web??
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
Thanks guys,
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussman ATC fuse terminal removal tool |
Cooper-Bussman panel mount ATC fuse blocks:
The BUSSMAN part number for the terminal removal tool is HT15710-01. See attached
Bussman document.
I purchased mine from Waytek
http://order.waytekwire.com/
Also see:
http://tinyurl.com/2f6exx3
which is:
http://www.kirbyrisk.com/index.jsp?path=product&part=547215&ds=dept&N=0&Nf=&D=HT15710-01&Dx=mode+matchpartial&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchpartial&Ntk=primary&Ntt=HT15710-01&Ne=10000&No=0#
Also attached is a drawing for making your own tool.
chris stone
RV-8 Oregon
-----Original Message-----
>From: Heinz Staehli <heinz.staehli(at)gmx.ch>
>Sent: May 18, 2010 7:20 PM
>To: rv8iator(at)earthlink.net
>Subject: terminal removal tool
>
>Hello Chris,
>
>I am wiring my GlaStar panel right now and my fingers still hurt from
>removing fast ons ...
>So it was a great relief reading in Your AeroElectric-List post that a
>terminal removal tool exists ! Would You be so kind and give me a hint where
>I can order it ? Is "terminal removal tool" the correct name for searching
>it ?
>
>Thank You very much for Your help Heinz
>
>Heinz Staehli
>Hauptstr. 44
>8872 Weesen SG
>Switzerland
>
>Tel: ++41 55 616 1828
>Cell: ++41 79 616 1071
>
>
>
>
>From: Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse blocks
>
>
>Jef...
>
>The Bussman fuse blocks use separate terminals that are crimped to the wire
>then
>inserted into the fuse block. This requires the use of the appropriate
>crimper.
>The terminal is what determines the wire size. The terminals are sized
>for a range of wire sizes. Most of the connections require the 18-22 size
>terminals
>as most feeders are in this range. The max. wire size terminals are #10
>which is typically fused at 30 amps which is more suitably fused with a
>separate
>maxi fuse or fusable link. The 10-16 size terminal crimp to #16 wire very
>well. The only problem I had was crimping #22. The tabs that form the
>crimp
>on the terminal are too large to reliably crimp this small a wire. I
>carefully
>soldered the end of the wire opposite the end that exits the terminal being
>careful not to allow solder to wick down the wire past the end of the
>terminal.
>(This will cause the wire to become solid and drastically increase the
>likelihood of fatigue failure at the terminal/wire interface).
>There are no installation instructions as to the insertion of the terminals
>into
>the block. For me it required trial and error with a couple of spare
>terminals
>to figure out the correct insertion orientation. Be sue to get the terminal
>removal tool (it looks like a very small (10mm wide) two pronged fork).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 24 volt and 12 volt Sharing Common Ground? |
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the speedy reply! I've got the wire feed welder ready to go and I'll
finish welding the frame together. Not having to isolate the ground on the
24 volt truck alternator will make things a little easier.
Thanks,
Dennis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298216#298216
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
| From: | "creightonious" <crouton(at)well.com> |
Bob,
To answer your questions on the EFI Rotax 912:
1) The stock Permagnet alternator is no longer in place,having been replaced by
a Hall effect pickoff and the alternator pulley.
2) I agree that 12 amps sounds like a lot, but the hp pump (walbro) seems to draw
about 7.2 amps @ 40psi (SDSEFI's figures) but I don't know what the flow
through the regulator and the return to the tank will be and how that will affect
the amperage.
The computer is supposed to draw 0.11amps and the injectors draw 2.2@80 percent
duty cycle and the coil pack draws3.2amps @6000rpm. For a total of 12.71amps.
Granted this is at (presumably) max sea level T.O. power but since cruise
is 5200rpm not a lot of coil load decrease can be expected.
The greatest load shed @ cruise is maybe an amp from the injectors. So maybe 11amps
but in all cases we must add an amp for the battery contactor. Ergo 12amps.
A manual switch appears possible.
I suspect the pump will be semi-stalled at any cruise flow and I saw a Walbro graph
predicting 5amps @ 5gph and 40psi.
So maybe 10 amps?
But...GIGO applies since no hard data.
I wish I had some.
Regards,
Creighton Smith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298220#298220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Motor Circuit using Bosch Ice Cube relays |
At 11:20 AM 5/15/2010, you wrote:
>
>Came across this: Simple tidy and inexpensive.
>
>http://www.electricscooterparts.com/relays.html
>
>and then look at "Wiring instructions"
I'm mystified as to how the designer of
this circuit intends the circuit to be used.
There is no OFF for the motor . . . only
FWD and REV.
The classic reversing system for PM motors
looks more like this.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps_3.pdf
You use the same SPDT relay as the diagram
cited earlier but the control switch is a
CENTER OFF device that allows BOTH relays to
be relaxed in the OFF or no-motion mode.
Note that in the OFF position, both relays
are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
fraction of what you get when you simply open
the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
When the center-off switch is moved to either
extreme, one of the two relays is energized
causing one lead of the motor to be connected
to DC power while the other remains at ground.
Powering the motor with opposite polarity
by energizing the other relay produces oposite
direction of rotation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Another Aeroelectric success story |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, The remote PTT switch circuit you drew up for my Vertex 220 works
perfectly. I haven't checked it for interference because of the fine weather
we're having on the Great Plains today, but I should be able to do that
Friday if the weather guessers are correct in their forecast.
Now for those who might be interested in this project, I found that Pilot
Shop (http://www.pilotshop.com) offers a universal PTT (part no. RTRE050)
for just $14.21. When I went researching for 206/210 plugs and sockets I
could not buy them for less than what Pilot Shop offers, much less adding
shielded wire and a switch. I was considering building two units so I could
move the radio back and forth from my airplane to my trike. I bought one
from them and it too works great (even with USPS Priority shipping it was
under $20 and was here in two days). Here's the complete address for the
PTT:
http://www.pilotshop.com/push-talk-switch-p-761.html?cPath=232_138
Thanks again Bob,
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual EFI circuit(s) questions |
At 04:04 PM 5/19/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>To answer your questions on the EFI Rotax 912:
>1) The stock Permagnet alternator is no longer in place,having been
>replaced by a Hall effect pickoff and the alternator pulley.
Does this mean that the original PM powered
ignition coils are gone too?
I've seen some rear pulley installations on
the 912 engines that still had their PM
alternators installed. Boy, given this engine's
special needs for electrons, it would REALLY
be nice if a main alternator failure wasn't
an emergency . . . or a condition that requires
dragging around 15# extra lead.
>2) I agree that 12 amps sounds like a lot, but the hp pump (walbro)
>seems to draw about 7.2 amps @ 40psi (SDSEFI's figures) but I don't
>know what the flow through the regulator and the return to the tank
>will be and how that will affect the amperage. A manual switch
>appears possible.
Hmmmm . . . what do the guys who SELL this
engine recommend for system architecture
and operating philosophy?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gilles St-Pierre <ranchlaseigneurie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon EFIS
for your info it has 2 pulse per rev=2C and works OK
gilles
bsl aviation
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readou
t posted to Dynon EFIS
> Date: Wed=2C 19 May 2010 13:09:23 -0400
> From: longg(at)pjm.com
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Thanks All=2C
>
> Good point Werner. I will check the signal output voltage and post at
> Dynon.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday=2C May 19=2C 2010 12:27 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
> readout posted to Dynon EFIS
>
>
>
>
> Glenn=2C
>
> did you try the Dynon Forum?! I'm not sure but I believe the signal
> voltage needs to be above a certain value (>10V) for the Dynon to see
> your lightspeed. What voltage do you see on that pin 6?
>
> But I guess we have someone been there done that on that group.
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
> On 19.05.2010 17:36=2C longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> > I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on which
> I
> > would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the
> > Lightspeed box.
> >
> > I've wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and
> the
> > Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
> >
> > Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output
> parameters
> > of the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I do
> > not have a scope to check the pulses.
> >
> > Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and runs
> > correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP readout=2C
> > albeit on a separate display.
> >
> > Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
> >
> > Thanks=2C
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729707
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon EFIS
Gilles,
Yes, as below that is my current setting. There is some other voodoo in
progress. I will try every other reasonable option before I throw them
over the cliff. The last call I will make is to Klaus.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gilles St-Pierre
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
readout posted to Dynon EFIS
for your info it has 2 pulse per rev, and works OK
gilles
bsl aviation
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
> readout posted to Dynon EFIS
> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:09:23 -0400
> From: longg(at)pjm.com
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Thanks All,
>
> Good point Werner. I will check the signal output voltage and post at
> Dynon.
>
> Glenn E. Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:27 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
> readout posted to Dynon EFIS
>
>
>
>
> Glenn,
>
> did you try the Dynon Forum?! I'm not sure but I believe the signal
> voltage needs to be above a certain value (>10V) for the Dynon to see
> your lightspeed. What voltage do you see on that pin 6?
>
> But I guess we have someone been there done that on that group.
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
> On 19.05.2010 17:36, longg(at)pjm.com wrote:
> > I have a dual Lightspeed Plasma III ignition and a D180 EFIS on
> > which
> I
> > would like to display the RPM output supposedly provided by the
> > Lightspeed box.
> >
> > I've wired the L & R pin 6 outputs to the D180 L & R RPM inputs and
> the
> > Lightspeed pin 13 output to the EFIS ground.
> >
> > Continuity is good. I have setup the EFIS to meet the output
> parameters
> > of the Lightspeed. 2 pulses/revs. Signal output is not verified. I
> > do not have a scope to check the pulses.
> >
> > Not a smirk of activity happening on the EFIS. Engine starts and
> > runs correctly. I have the optional display which provides an RMP
> > readout, albeit on a separate display.
> >
> > Just wondering if anyone has crossed this bridge yet.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Dating: Find someone special. Start now.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729707
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Bussman ATC fuse terminal removal tool |
>
>Cooper-Bussman panel mount ATC fuse blocks:
>
>The BUSSMAN part number for the terminal removal tool is HT15710-01. See attached
Bussman document.
>
>I purchased mine from Waytek
>
>http://order.waytekwire.com/
>
>Also see:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2f6exx3
>
>which is:
>
>http://www.kirbyrisk.com/index.jsp?path=product&part=547215&ds=dept&N=0&Nf=&D=HT15710-01&Dx=mode+matchpartial&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchpartial&Ntk=primary&Ntt=HT15710-01&Ne=10000&No=0#
>
>
>Also attached is a drawing for making your own tool.
>
>chris stone
>RV-8 Oregon
>
>>
>>Hello Chris,
>>
>>I am wiring my GlaStar panel right now and my fingers still hurt from
>>removing fast ons ...
>>So it was a great relief reading in Your AeroElectric-List post that a
>>terminal removal tool exists ! Would You be so kind and give me a hint where
>>I can order it ? Is "terminal removal tool" the correct name for searching
>>it ?
>>
>>Thank You very much for Your help Heinz
>>
>>Heinz Staehli
>>Hauptstr. 44
>>8872 Weesen SG
>>Switzerland
>>
>>Tel: ++41 55 616 1828
>>Cell: ++41 79 616 1071
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse blocks
>>
>>
>>Jef...
>>
>>The Bussman fuse blocks use separate terminals that are crimped to the wire
>>then
>>inserted into the fuse block. This requires the use of the appropriate
>>crimper.
>>The terminal is what determines the wire size. The terminals are sized
>>for a range of wire sizes. Most of the connections require the 18-22 size
>>terminals
>>as most feeders are in this range. The max. wire size terminals are #10
>>which is typically fused at 30 amps which is more suitably fused with a
>>separate
>>maxi fuse or fusable link. The 10-16 size terminal crimp to #16 wire very
>>well. The only problem I had was crimping #22. The tabs that form the
>>crimp
>>on the terminal are too large to reliably crimp this small a wire. I
>>carefully
>>soldered the end of the wire opposite the end that exits the terminal being
>>careful not to allow solder to wick down the wire past the end of the
>>terminal.
>>(This will cause the wire to become solid and drastically increase the
>>likelihood of fatigue failure at the terminal/wire interface).
>>There are no installation instructions as to the insertion of the terminals
>>into
>>the block. For me it required trial and error with a couple of spare
>>terminals
>>to figure out the correct insertion orientation. Be sue to get the terminal
>>removal tool (it looks like a very small (10mm wide) two pronged fork).
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Apropos of the topic, for some years I have been offering a tachometer pulse-divider
for those who need one, or just to play with.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298338#298338
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tach_adapter_181.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout |
posted to Dynon
Thanks Eric,
Is that on your website? If the LS deal doesn't work out...
I may even pick one up to "play"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM
readout posted to Dynon
Apropos of the topic, for some years I have been offering a tachometer
pulse-divider for those who need one, or just to play with.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298338#298338
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tach_adapter_181.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Issues with getting Lightspeed RPM readout posted |
to Dynon
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Not yet.
I have a bunch of things "not on my website" or "not in my catalog" or "has no
price and no production plans". This tends to reduce the sales volume a bit, but
not always.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298376#298376
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Falstad <bobair(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
I have a RAMI AV-12 VOR antenna that has the two machine screws/studs for electrical
connection to the coax cable -- it doesn't take a BNC twist-on connector.
I believe the coax that I have is a double shielded type but it isn't RG400
-- it has a bright yellow outer jacket.
How do I terminate this coax cable to this antenna? Do I just crimp PIDG terminals
(or solder suitable lugs?) to the braided shield and to the center conductor?
I'd also use some heat-shrinked tubing. Is anything more than this required?
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
310 Hours in two years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
At 09:36 PM 5/20/2010, you wrote:
I have a RAMI AV-12 VOR antenna that has the two machine screws/studs
for electrical connection to the coax cable -- it doesn't take a BNC
twist-on connector. I believe the coax that I have is a double
shielded type but it isn't RG400 -- it has a bright yellow outer jacket.
How did you acquire the ooax? Did it come with the
antenna as a kit?
How do I terminate this coax cable to this antenna? Do I just crimp
PIDG terminals (or solder suitable lugs?) to the braided shield and
to the center conductor?
Yes, make the lengths of these leads as short as practical.
I'd also use some heat-shrinked tubing. Is anything more than this required?
Nope.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
| From: | "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil> |
Bob -
Connectors appropriate to the antenna's lugs, either crimped or soldered
will do just fine. Keep the length of exposed center conductor to a
minimum. Support the cable with a clamp very near the end of the jacket,
fastened to the airframe to provide strain relief and vibration protection.
Neal
====================
How do I terminate this coax cable to this antenna? Do I just crimp PIDG
terminals (or solder suitable lugs?) to the braided shield and to the center
conductor? I'd also use some heat-shrinked tubing. Is anything more than
this required?
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
310 Hours in two years
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
For frequencies near or above 1 MHz, coaxial cables are best terminated with a
connection method that is easy to make or buy that avoids the unnecessary losses
in pigtailing the shield.
Yes, you can "get away with" pigtails, but Google "Kimmel Gerke pigtails" and learn
how to do this important task....
And see my "Dabbling with Electricity...It's Child's Play" attached for more explanation.
(I have also attached for your pleasure the Popular Mechanics 1943
Army Test.)
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298415#298415
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/army_test_173.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_994.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
> How did you acquire the coax? Did it come with the
> antenna as a kit?
> Bob . . .
Bob=2C
Yes=2C it does. One of the two experimental planes I'm building is a Gl
aStar. When ordering some of their options=2C I got the dipole com radio a
ntenna kit. Evidently=2C whoever they have build their antennas likes to u
se this triax cable.
I got the com antenna fastened to the inside of the vertical stabilizer
=2C and glued the two halves of the plane together. I forgot to look at ho
w they handle the antenna end of the cable=2C that's why I asked previously
about the balun information.
In the present topic=2C do I understand correctly that you combine the in
ner and outer shields together on the solder lug=2C at the antenna end?
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
At 07:46 AM 5/21/2010, you wrote:
> How did you acquire the coax? Did it come with the
> antenna as a kit?
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Yes, it does. One of the two experimental planes I'm building is
a GlaStar. When ordering some of their options, I got the dipole com
radio antenna kit. Evidently, whoever they have build their antennas
likes to use this triax cable.
Just making sure it wasn't some form of ohterwise
un-identified cable . . .
I got the com antenna fastened to the inside of the vertical
stabilizer, and glued the two halves of the plane together. I forgot
to look at how they handle the antenna end of the cable, that's why I
asked previously about the balun information.
Adding the balun is a technically satisfying thing
to do for this style antenna but will offer no
observable improvement in your VOR system performance.
In the present topic, do I under stand correctly that you combine
the inner and outer shields together on the solder lug, at the antenna end?
Yes, you can do that. But if you do the elegant
breakout of the center conductor through the shields
like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
. . . you'll find that the bulk of strand for
two sets of shields demand a rather hunky
PIDG terminal. This is an exceedingly non-critical
application that doesn't really benefit from
double-shielding. At the antenna end, you can
simply cut away all of the outer shield at the
outer jacket and terminate only the inner shield
as suggested above.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna |
At 07:41 AM 5/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>For frequencies near or above 1 MHz, coaxial cables are best
>terminated with a connection method that is easy to make or buy that
>avoids the unnecessary losses in pigtailing the shield.
>
>Yes, you can "get away with" pigtails, but Google "Kimmel Gerke
>pigtails" and learn how to do this important task....
In this case, we're making a transition between a coaxial
feed line and pieces of metal intended to be exceedingly
NON-coaxial, I.e. elements of an antenna.
Pig-tails on the end of the coax simply become part
of the total length of each antenna element. The
existence or non-existence of a constant impedance
connector at the end of the coax is not a factor
for over-all performance. The technically elegant
design will shorten the elements by the same dimension
added by the pigtails. This adjustment for length
will produce a more satisfying SWR plot over the
range of interest . . . but it's not going to
make an observable difference in system performance.
In this instance, doing the PIDG-on-pig-tails
termination provides a more robust, lower parts-
count transition between the feed line and the
antenna elements without degrading performance.
If one opted for a pristine connector, then
a mating connector needs to be part of the
antenna assembly. The same pig-tails from
the mating connector to each antenna element
will exist and have the same influence on the
antenna's resonant frequency. Parts count and
numbers of connections go up.
The K&G admonitions for preserving feed-line
integrity are quite accurate but not applicable
in this instance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Motor Circuit using Bosch Ice Cube relays |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
When I looked at it, I too didn't get how one would use it because there was no
null point. Just thought there was something that the electron cognosenti would
understand and explain it to me! :?
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298511#298511
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna: Do Not |
Archive
| From: | Bob Falstad <bobair(at)me.com> |
Bob,
As Mike Welch said, the yellow coax came with the kit from (then) Stoddard-Hamilton.
He refreshes my recollection that it is double shielded/triax.
I should have recalled your "comic book" about pulling the wire out of the shield
-- but it's been some time since I've looked through your library of "how to's"
and I might not have even thought to apply it to coax cable. I'll practice
on a scrap piece before I tackle the cable that's already installed in the
airplane.
Thanks for the help.
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 05/21/10 |
| From: | kent(at)cybermesa.com |
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 23:55:54
Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 05/21/10
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-05-21&Archive=AeroElectric
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===============================================
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===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 05/21/10: 6
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (George, Neal E Capt
USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (Eric M. Jones)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (Mike Welch)
5. 06:08 AM - Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls,
III)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
At 09:36 PM 5/20/2010, you wrote:
I have a RAMI AV-12 VOR antenna that has the two machine screws/studs
for electrical connection to the coax cable -- it doesn't take a BNC
twist-on connector. I believe the coax that I have is a double
shielded type but it isn't RG400 -- it has a bright yellow outer jacket.
How did you acquire the ooax? Did it come with the
antenna as a kit?
How do I terminate this coax cable to this antenna? Do I just crimp
PIDG terminals (or solder suitable lugs?) to the braided shield and
to the center conductor?
Yes, make the lengths of these leads as short as practical.
I'd also use some heat-shrinked tubing. Is anything more than this required?
Nope.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
From: "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil>
Bob -
Connectors appropriate to the antenna's lugs, either crimped or soldered
will do just fine. Keep the length of exposed center conductor to a
minimum. Support the cable with a clamp very near the end of the jacket,
fastened to the airframe to provide strain relief and vibration protection.
Neal
===================
How do I terminate this coax cable to this antenna? Do I just crimp PIDG
terminals (or solder suitable lugs?) to the braided shield and to the center
conductor? I'd also use some heat-shrinked tubing. Is anything more than
this required?
Best regards,
Bob Falstad
GlaStar N248BF
310 Hours in two years
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
For frequencies near or above 1 MHz, coaxial cables are best terminated with a
connection method that is easy to make or buy that avoids the unnecessary losses
in pigtailing the shield.
Yes, you can "get away with" pigtails, but Google "Kimmel Gerke pigtails" and learn
how to do this important task....
And see my "Dabbling with Electricity...It's Child's Play" attached for more explanation.
(I have also attached for your pleasure the Popular Mechanics 1943
Army Test.)
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298415#298415
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/army_test_173.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_994.pdf
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
> How did you acquire the coax? Did it come with the
> antenna as a kit?
> Bob . . .
Bob=2C
Yes=2C it does. One of the two experimental planes I'm building is a Gl
aStar. When ordering some of their options=2C I got the dipole com radio a
ntenna kit. Evidently=2C whoever they have build their antennas likes to u
se this triax cable.
I got the com antenna fastened to the inside of the vertical stabilizer
=2C and glued the two halves of the plane together. I forgot to look at ho
w they handle the antenna end of the cable=2C that's why I asked previously
about the balun information.
In the present topic=2C do I understand correctly that you combine the in
ner and outer shields together on the solder lug=2C at the antenna end?
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
At 07:46 AM 5/21/2010, you wrote:
> How did you acquire the coax? Did it come with the
> antenna as a kit?
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Yes, it does. One of the two experimental planes I'm building is
a GlaStar. When ordering some of their options, I got the dipole com
radio antenna kit. Evidently, whoever they have build their antennas
likes to use this triax cable.
Just making sure it wasn't some form of ohterwise
un-identified cable . . .
I got the com antenna fastened to the inside of the vertical
stabilizer, and glued the two halves of the plane together. I forgot
to look at how they handle the antenna end of the cable, that's why I
asked previously about the balun information.
Adding the balun is a technically satisfying thing
to do for this style antenna but will offer no
observable improvement in your VOR system performance.
In the present topic, do I under stand correctly that you combine
the inner and outer shields together on the solder lug, at the antenna end?
Yes, you can do that. But if you do the elegant
breakout of the center conductor through the shields
like . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
. . . you'll find that the bulk of strand for
two sets of shields demand a rather hunky
PIDG terminal. This is an exceedingly non-critical
application that doesn't really benefit from
double-shielding. At the antenna end, you can
simply cut away all of the outer shield at the
outer jacket and terminate only the inner shield
as suggested above.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Terminating Coax Cable to VOR Antenna
At 07:41 AM 5/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>For frequencies near or above 1 MHz, coaxial cables are best
>terminated with a connection method that is easy to make or buy that
>avoids the unnecessary losses in pigtailing the shield.
>
>Yes, you can "get away with" pigtails, but Google "Kimmel Gerke
>pigtails" and learn how to do this important task....
In this case, we're making a transition between a coaxial
feed line and pieces of metal intended to be exceedingly
NON-coaxial, I.e. elements of an antenna.
Pig-tails on the end of the coax simply become part
of the total length of each antenna element. The
existence or non-existence of a constant impedance
connector at the end of the coax is not a factor
for over-all performance. The technically elegant
design will shorten the elements by the same dimension
added by the pigtails. This adjustment for length
will produce a more satisfying SWR plot over the
range of interest . . . but it's not going to
make an observable difference in system performance.
In this instance, doing the PIDG-on-pig-tails
termination provides a more robust, lower parts-
count transition between the feed line and the
antenna elements without degrading performance.
If one opted for a pristine connector, then
a mating connector needs to be part of the
antenna assembly. The same pig-tails from
the mating connector to each antenna element
will exist and have the same influence on the
antenna's resonant frequency. Parts count and
numbers of connections go up.
The K&G admonitions for preserving feed-line
integrity are quite accurate but not applicable
in this instance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead connector |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Great minds think alike? :-} This project rose back to the top of the pile
again now that I have a working PTT for the little Vertex radio. Next step
solder, add ground plane and some radials, and mount on the plane.
Rick Girard
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 01:37 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, I'm going to solder a piece of 3/32" brazing rod into the center lug
>> of the PL 259 chassis mount (the lug is drilled out to let it slip in for a
>> good mechanical attachment once the soldering is done), trim to appropriate
>> length and use it as an antenna for my hand held.
>>
>
> Okay, figure out a way to substantially beef up support
> of the rod right and for about 1" away from the solder
> joint. If allowed to "wave in be breeze" it's going
> break at the solder joint and depart the airplane . . .
> if I recall your airplane configuration correctly,
> there may be risk of putting that piece of wire through the prop?
>
> A piece of Delrin, polycarbonate, etc cut drilled and
> mounted to supply support is recommended.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Valin & Allyson Thorn" <thorn(at)starflight.aero> |
| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
Lancair Flap Drive Wiring Drawing.jpg
Legacy Flap Wiring Pictorial.jpg
Flap Relay Schematic.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
When one selects neither up or down with the switch, the motor is
shorted by the relays (each side of the motor goes through its
respective relay's pins 5&6 through the NC connection to pins 1&2 which
are both connected to ground). The fact that they are connected to
ground is incidental. When the power leads of a running DC motor are
shorted together, the motor acts as a generator running into a short.
This almost instantaneously absorbs the rotational energy of the motor,
stopping it very quickly as you saw. If the leads were just disconnected
from power the only way for the rotational energy to dissipate is
through frictional losses in the motor and the flap mechanism - which
allows the whole system to coast to a stop as you found.
Dick Tasker
Valin & Allyson Thorn wrote:
>
> Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
>
> Im still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
> construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring Id
> appreciate feedback on...
>
> Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the
> linear electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and
> down, Lancair recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below)
> wiring to change polarity and provide immediate braking of the
> actuator. Without this circuitry the EMA will coast after releasing
> the switch which is a serious problem when the flaps are at their limits.
>
> A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I
> quickly wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts
> quite a bit and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
>
> So my question is, how does it accomplish this? Ive attached my draft
> wiring diagram where Ive created what I think is the relay circuit
> but am not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All
> Lancair provides in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring
> and a schematic of the circuit (see second image below). Im having to
> guess that the terminals 7 and 8 in the relay circuit control the
> switch and that its normally closed to pole 2 (the relay schematic
> from the Lancair manual is the last image below).
>
> Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid
> field provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Valin
>
> Lancair Legacy Project
>
> Houston, TX USA
>
> /Heres my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:/
>
> Lancair Flap Drive Wiring Drawing.jpg
>
> Legacy Flap Wiring Pictorial.jpg
>
> Flap Relay Schematic.jpg
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Valin & Allyson Thorn" <thorn(at)starflight.aero> |
| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last week
and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap drives
already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting) both
sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
"Note that in the OFF position, both relays
are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
fraction of what you get when you simply open
the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
Bob . . ."
Thanks Bob. Sorry I didn't search the archives more thoroughly before
posting my question. I'd still be interested to know if it looks like I've
drawn the wiring diagram and relay circuit correctly.
Valin
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Valin;
The wiring as you've drawn it appears correct and will function as desired.
The second pole of the manual switch which is connected to your power source
is not strictly required. Terminals 3 & 4 of the relays could go directly
to your circuit protection bypassing the left pole of your switch. A SPDT
momentary switch wired as the right side of your DPDT controlling the relays
will give the exact same functionality. HOWEVER that second pole gives
double redundancy for turning off power to the motor when you release the
switch and is probably a good idea.
Also if I understand your explanation of how the flaps work on this aircraft
it would appear that the notes on the wires leading to the actuator are
incorrect. The drawing shows the red motor lead connected to positive
battery power and the black lead grounded. Your explanation says this is
extending the flaps and the down limit will stop this motion. The notes
associated with the wires are contradictory. (Red lead negative (Therefore
Black lead positive) to extend but it also says black lead positive
(therefore red lead negative) to retract. Obvious contradiction somewhere).
The drawing as shown supports your explanation and it is the notes which
appear confused.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last week
and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap drives
already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting) both
sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
"Note that in the OFF position, both relays
are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
fraction of what you get when you simply open
the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
Bob . . ."
Thanks Bob. Sorry I didn't search the archives more thoroughly before
posting my question. I'd still be interested to know if it looks like I've
drawn the wiring diagram and relay circuit correctly.
Valin
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin &
Allyson Thorn
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question
Hey Aeroelectric Gang,
I'm still working on wiring diagrams for our Lancair Legacy under
construction. I have a question on the flap drive wiring I'd appreciate
feedback on...
Rather than using a DPDT switch wired up to change polarity for the linear
electro-mechanical actuator (EMA) to drive the flaps up and down, Lancair
recommends two DPST relays with proper (see below) wiring to change polarity
and provide immediate braking of the actuator. Without this circuitry the
EMA will coast after releasing the switch which is a serious problem when
the flaps are at their limits.
A couple of years ago, when we assembled and installed our flaps, I quickly
wired this up and confirmed that without the relays it coasts quite a bit
and with this relay circuit the EMA/flaps stop immediately.
So my question is, how does it accomplish this? I've attached my draft
wiring diagram where I've created what I think is the relay circuit but am
not sure. The wiring between everything is accurate. All Lancair provides
in their manual is a pictorial of the relay wiring and a schematic of the
circuit (see second image below). I'm having to guess that the terminals 7
and 8 in the relay circuit control the switch and that it's normally closed
to pole 2 (the relay schematic from the Lancair manual is the last image
below).
Does this braking effect happen because of the collapsing solenoid field
provides a brief voltage spike of opposite polarity?
Thanks,
Valin
Lancair Legacy Project
Houston, TX USA
Here's my rendering of the flap drive wiring as I understand it:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
| Subject: | Lancair Flap Drive Relay Wiring Question |
Valin-
I would recommend using the circuitry that Lancair has in its manual. It
incorporates what Bob has mentioned (dual relays) in his response to you,
and it works very well - stops instantly when the switch springs back to
the central/neutral position.
I am on the road, but when I get home tomorrow, I can send you the page
from my wirebook with the wiring diagram and pinout of the relays. Let me
know if you want it. I could not download your diagram to enable me to
compare it to mine. Send it off line if you want me to look it over. IMHO,
this is not a circuit in your system that needs any modification.
Regards,
John Schroeder
Lancair ES - 338 hours
>
>
>Ironically, I was looking at the Aeroelectric discussions from the last
week
>and saw that Bob in another discussion last Wednesday related to flap
drives
>already explained the motor braking is achieved by grounding (shorting)
both
>sides of the motor rather than just opening the circuit.
>
>
>
> "Note that in the OFF position, both relays
>
> are relaxed and the wiring places a dead short
>
> across the motor. This is ESPECIALLY useful in
>
> PM motors to supply electro-dynamic braking
>
> to the motor. Coasting is reduced to a small
>
> fraction of what you get when you simply open
>
> the motor's power circuit to shut it off.
>
>
>
> Bob . . ."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Small thumb-drives needed |
I have a small data recorder that uses USB thumb drives
but won't address drives larger than 512Mb. This isn't
a real problem since the data to be recorded is a suite
of infrequent values recorded over a long period of
time. I'm in the market for a few thumb drives in the
low megabytes range. These are largely obsolete for the
general computer using populace but very useful to my
task. Got anything like this laying around that you'd
like to recycle into a useful cause? Anything from 16
to 512 Mb is fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Bob,
If you don't get any answers close to home, I'd be happy to spot you a
couple if you can wait a bit for them to get to you across the pond.
James
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
> I have a small data recorder that uses USB thumb drives
> but won't address drives larger than 512Mb. This isn't
> a real problem since the data to be recorded is a suite
> of infrequent values recorded over a long period of
> time. I'm in the market for a few thumb drives in the
> low megabytes range. These are largely obsolete for the
> general computer using populace but very useful to my
> task. Got anything like this laying around that you'd
> like to recycle into a useful cause? Anything from 16
> to 512 Mb is fine.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Small thumb-drives needed |
I have a couple 64meg never used.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:51 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small thumb-drives needed
I have a small data recorder that uses USB thumb drives
but won't address drives larger than 512Mb. This isn't
a real problem since the data to be recorded is a suite
of infrequent values recorded over a long period of
time. I'm in the market for a few thumb drives in the
low megabytes range. These are largely obsolete for the
general computer using populace but very useful to my
task. Got anything like this laying around that you'd
like to recycle into a useful cause? Anything from 16
to 512 Mb is fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Settle <billsettle(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
I've got a 512 that I don't use.- Let me know where to send it and you ca
n have it.
--- On Tue, 5/25/10, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small thumb-drives needed
Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 5:50 PM
s.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
I have a small data recorder that uses USB thumb drives
but won't address drives larger than 512Mb. This isn't
a real problem since the data to be recorded is a suite
of infrequent values recorded over a long period of
time. I'm in the market for a few thumb drives in the
low megabytes range. These are largely obsolete for the
general computer using populace but very useful to my
task. Got anything like this laying around that you'd
like to recycle into a useful cause? Anything from 16
to 512 Mb is fine.
- Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Small thumb-drives needed |
I have a small data recorder that uses USB thumb drives
but won't address drives larger than 512Mb. This isn't
a real problem since the data to be recorded is a suite
of infrequent values recorded over a long period of
time. I'm in the market for a few thumb drives in the
low megabytes range. These are largely obsolete for the
general computer using populace but very useful to my
task. Got anything like this laying around that you'd
like to recycle into a useful cause? Anything from 16
to 512 Mb is fine.
Bob . . .
How many do you need? Maybe I can help.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
At 06:16 PM 5/25/2010, you wrote:
>I've got a 512 that I don't use. Let me know where to send it and
>you can have it.
Thanks!
Bob Nuckolls
P.O. Box 130
Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Small thumb-drives needed |
At 05:43 PM 5/25/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>I have a couple 64meg never used.
Those would be great? What would you like
to get for them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
At 04:50 PM 5/25/2010, you wrote:
>
Thanks to the folks who responded to my plea. We've got
the mission covered.
When I bought that system, a 512Mb was a pretty big
memory stick . . . and the folks who designed it into
the system probably didn't anticipate that they
would become obsolete and hard to find so soon!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jebrick(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | SL30 Comm Failure message |
Just for the record, at the suggestion of the Apollo guys in Salem, I
re-racked it and, it could be my imagination but the display seemed to get
brighter. Of course I couldn't duplicate the comm failure message before or
after the re-rack so there is no way to be sure but I just got back from a
long cross country without any problems. So it's fixed for now. At the next
opportunity, I'll check the dsub connectors on the back end for a snug fit.
I bought the SL30 new in 2001. I was surprised to find the original Apollo
crew still at work in Salem, OR. After Garmin took over they actually
doubled their workforce.
jb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Brick
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SL30 Comm Failure message
Nope, no internal battery. Will try to contact tech support tomorrow.
Thanks,
jb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SL30 Comm Failure message
John
Does it have an internal battery?
The 480 does and it gives out some messages when it starts to go bad. Call
the Garmin AT tech support people and ask them. They are great folks -
like Apollo/UPS.
John Schroeder
SL30, GNA480, GTX330, Lancair ES
> After 4 1/2 years without trouble, my Apollo SL30 has begun to show this
> message briefly on startup. Then it resolves itself and does not reoccur
> in
> flight. Garmin bought out Apollo, long ago and has made some upgrades I
> think. Hope I can avoid sending this unit back to Garmin.
> Any ideas?
>
> jb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Whither Aviation OFF TOPIC |
First of all it has always been my belief that Aviation is Aviators
Aviating - not airlines, nor manufacturers nor for the most part, magazines.
Aviation is simply pilots flying. Any other reference to the term is merely
parasitic - making money on the shoulders of others.
Now to the point:
I suggest you dial in "Flying Cheap" on PBS - I watched an article
on typing "PBS Buffalo - flying cheap" into Google. Perhaps there are better
ways unknown to me. The title is typically bad grammar, but the content is
revealing.
We all know that many professions (and I call flying several hundred
people through the air - professional - as it is professed publicly) in fact
sqweeze the regulations, fight to relieve the regulations, lie to regulators
- or manage to pervert proper behaviour without any regulations. I don't
need to suggest which. Most of the time we can't act on the knowledge of
these transgressions; sometimes there are penalties, legal threats, etc.
After 60-odd years in the air, I am compelled to draw attention to
the squalid conditions under which new flyers are forced to work. I am
ashamed of the industry - commercial aviation - which granted me such
freedom and responsibility while continuing to grant less and less to those
who follow.
Love of flying is probably one of the most common qualities drawing
people to the craft. That fact is not lost on present-day executives and
they continue to lie, cheat and steal the very standards, gnawing away at
one principle or another until the calling is a trash-heap.
Your review of the above topic I hope will I hope convince you of my
beliefs. With two sons, ex-military, now flying several hundred passengers a
day I am thankful that most of the practices outlined in the series have not
touched them.
In my case, and in one son's event with a now-extinct carrier, we
came into conflict on the principles of a government regulation on time on
duty and at the controls. In both cases, the disruption in service delayed
some of my passengers - simply because a low-level minion winked at the law
and then attempted to blame us. In my airline (a major) the flight
supervisor made a swift defence of my actions although the miscreant didn't
pay for his deeds. In my son's case the British-owned subsidiary attempted
to demand a seventeen-hour day on a fifteen hour limit. He was downgraded
but never left the captain's seat (at the hands of his immediate
supervisors. he sued for the pay and an apology. They settled out of court
but never admitted the sin. They folded and he had a Captain's job the
following morning with a better line.
Se what "Flying Cheap" does for your thoughts. - My apologies for
this.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi group.
Working on our gear warning system that needs to address needs for both powered
flight and soaring flight we have design one that does pretty good.
However we need a devise that can silence horn for approx. two minutes. In other
words by switching a momentary switch power to horn will be killed for two minutes.
Needs to be able to handle 500 mA @ 14.4 volts.
Something small and reliable like a delayed off relay, or??
Any ideas, and where to purchase would be appreciated.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299015#299015
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
Bob
A USB card reader would allow you to use CF cards etc as well
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small thumb-drives needed
>
>
> At 04:50 PM 5/25/2010, you wrote:
>>
>
> Thanks to the folks who responded to my plea. We've got
> the mission covered.
>
> When I bought that system, a 512Mb was a pretty big
> memory stick . . . and the folks who designed it into
> the system probably didn't anticipate that they
> would become obsolete and hard to find so soon!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | The state of the industry |
AMEN.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whither Aviation OFF TOPIC
>
> Now to the point:
> I suggest you dial in "Flying Cheap" on PBS - I watched an article
> on typing "PBS Buffalo - flying cheap" into Google. Perhaps there are
better
> ways unknown to me. The title is typically bad grammar, but the content is
> revealing.
Do not archiv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
At 04:02 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>
>A USB card reader would allow you to use CF cards etc as well
Sure. But small flash cards are equally hard to
find! Nobody wants less than a couple of gigs any
more. But one of my handiest digital cameras chokes on
a 2gig card. The MP3 player in my car chokes on a 4gig
card. That technology seems to have exploded much
faster than the designers of flash based appliances
anticipated.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
At 11:43 PM 5/26/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi group.
>
>Working on our gear warning system that needs to address needs for
>both powered flight and soaring flight we have design one that does
>pretty good.
>
>However we need a devise that can silence horn for approx. two
>minutes. In other words by switching a momentary switch power to
>horn will be killed for two minutes.
>
>Needs to be able to handle 500 mA @ 14.4 volts.
>
>Something small and reliable like a delayed off relay, or??
>
>Any ideas, and where to purchase would be appreciated.
>
>Thx.
>Ron Parigoris
You can build such a timer from Radio Shack parts.
What kind of 'horn' are we talking about. Solid
state, piezo electric or an electro-mechanical
buzzer?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
Go to Google and typing in "555 timer relay" - you will find a lot of
circuits that would give you what you want and some units and kits as well.
Here's a couple of examples
http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/relaytim.asp
http://www.hobbytron.net/R-UT-5.html
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigoris
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:44 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Any ideas on two minute delayed off
Hi group.
Working on our gear warning system that needs to address needs for both
powered flight and soaring flight we have design one that does pretty good.
However we need a devise that can silence horn for approx. two minutes. In
other words by switching a momentary switch power to horn will be killed for
two minutes.
Needs to be able to handle 500 mA @ 14.4 volts.
Something small and reliable like a delayed off relay, or??
Any ideas, and where to purchase would be appreciated.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299015#299015
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Small thumb-drives needed |
Here's the place to go
_http://www.flash-memory-store.com/64mb-secure-digital.html_
(http://www.flash-memory-store.com/64mb-secure-digital.html)
64mb and up
Dick
In a message dated 5/27/2010 7:57:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
At 04:02 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>
>A USB card reader would allow you to use CF cards etc as well
Sure. But small flash cards are equally hard to
find! Nobody wants less than a couple of gigs any
more. But one of my handiest digital cameras chokes on
a 2gig card. The MP3 player in my car chokes on a 4gig
card. That technology seems to have exploded much
faster than the designers of flash based appliances
anticipated.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
I've dealt with Carl's hobbies and they are first rate for service and suppport.
I had to build a timer for another project and used the one in this link. I
built it from a kit (educational and fun) or you can buy it assembled. This one
has a toggle feature that seems like it would do what you want.
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1614.htm?gclid=CNPA94rj2o4CFRcIYgodoEizAA
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299057#299057
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
| From: | rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us |
Hi Bob
"You can build such a timer from Radio Shack
parts. What kind of 'horn' are we talking about. Solid state,
piezo electric or an electro-mechanical buzzer?"
LOUD piezo. I was hoping to get away simple with something like an off
the shelf reed switch/relayunit? Or perhaps 555 route is best?
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
At 12:05 PM 5/27/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Bob
>
>"You can build such a timer from Radio Shack parts. What kind of
>'horn' are we talking about. Solid state, piezo electric or an
>electro-mechanical buzzer?"
>
>LOUD piezo. I was hoping to get away simple with something like an
>off the shelf reed switch/relay unit? Or perhaps 555 route is best?
Yeah, simple SHORT delays are possible with some
rudimentary circuits using relays . . . but when
you need LONG delays, some electronics is in order.
Suggest:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Piezo_Horn_Silence-Timer.pdf
You can try an aluminum electrolytic in the time delay
slot and see if it works well enough for you. A
tantalum per number suggested works best but they're
a bit pricy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any ideas on two minute delayed off |
The Carl's Electronics CANCK158 universal start stop timer kit has all the
pieces you need including the relay and push button.
See:
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/timers/canck158.htm
At $15.95 for the kit ($18.95 assembled) it would be hard to find a better,
less expensive solution. Just run your buzzer wire through the Normally
Closed branch of the relay.
Tom Kuffel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gauge wiring best practice |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Greetings to all,
I've bought a number of UMA's delightful 1-1/4" custom-marked engine
instruments (CHT, EGT, fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp. etc.)
and I'm about to start wiring them in to my plane project (Jodel D150
with Lycoming O-235). I've a couple of questions about best practices
and I wonder if you can help.
I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to
be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting
other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors,
with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at
least).
To connect the UMA instruments, I figure I can go one of two ways:
1) wire each UMA-supplied DB9 connector straight through to the power
bus, ground bus, and sender. The downside is that I'd have to screw /
unscrew many connectors to disconnect the 8 or so UMA instruments,
which might be quick tricky behind the panel.
2) wire all the DB9 connectors to a multi-way MATE-N-LOK plug behind
the panel, and then wire a MATE-N-LOK socket to the various sensors
and whatnot. This would give me the big advantage of being able to
disconnect all engine instruments in one connector.
I don't see any downside to this, but any input would be greatly appreciated.
Secondly, I note that each of the instruments requires a 12V supply
and a ground. Can all these engine instruments be connected together
at the instrument panel and then run to the power bus and ground bus
in two "big" wires, or should I run two separate wires back for each
instrument?
The 12V feeds could be linked together, with the risk of one engine
instrument going u/s knocking out all the others, but this seems like
a smallish risk. Or perhaps I could do a combo approach -- a few
feeds each feeding a couple or three instruments. Any thoughts about
this from you seasoned flyers would be great.
Also, I've read what it says about grounding, etc., in the
Aeroelectric Connection, and the possibility for errors because of
resistance through different ground paths. However, I find that the
UMA instruments have in general four connections: +12V, GND, sensor
+ve, sensor -ve, all connected via a DB-9 socket. Does this mean that
the sensor input has a sort of privileged design because it has its
own ground going direct the instrument? The two grounds could be
connected internally I guess, but I can't work out what difference
that would make!
Very many thanks in anticipation of your advice.
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauge wiring best practice |
I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to
be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting
other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors,
with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at
least).
Keep in mind that every connector interface adds three new
joints to every wire. Running lots of electro-goodies through a
single connector adds a single point of failure for all
those electro-goodies.
To connect the UMA instruments, I figure I can go one of two ways:
1) wire each UMA-supplied DB9 connector straight through to the power
bus, ground bus, and sender. The downside is that I'd have to screw /
unscrew many connectors to disconnect the 8 or so UMA instruments,
which might be quick tricky behind the panel.
2) wire all the DB9 connectors to a multi-way MATE-N-LOK plug behind
the panel, and then wire a MATE-N-LOK socket to the various sensors
and whatnot. This would give me the big advantage of being able to
disconnect all engine instruments in one connector.
I don't see any downside to this, but any input would be greatly appreciated.
You can do this . . . but you'll never find it done
on production aircraft either commercial or military.
It's a little-value-added activity that does add
significant cost-of-ownership and reduces reliability.
You can replace the stock jack-screws with devices
having extended handles designed for access with
the bare fingers.
It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come with
short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY
difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire
bundles. Theres a host of fingers-only, d-sub retention
systems including Positronics V-series and mil-spec slide
locks. There's also a handy but seldom offered wire-bale-
and-clip that used to be VERY popular on printer connectors.
These are easy to incorporate into new products were you want
to order thousands . . . but unfortunately, they're not
often found as catalog items.
The computer world has offered a variety of extended jack-screw
handles, most of which can be operated with the bare fingers.
My personal choice is the DIY extended jackscrew fabricated
from a piece of 4-40 screw and 3/16" hex threaded spacer.
See:
http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
When accessed with the nifty miniature nut-driver from
Xcelite (or similar) one can get a better feel of just
how tight the screw is when replacing it . . . and
it's a light-year away from the inconvenience of
stock, slot-head jack-screws.
Secondly, I note that each of the instruments requires a 12V supply
and a ground. Can all these engine instruments be connected together
at the instrument panel and then run to the power bus and ground bus
in two "big" wires, or should I run two separate wires back for each
instrument?
Failure-tolerant design suggests that every electro-whizzie
be treated as a separate system . . . i.e. no single failure
affects more than one system. Just how much your personal
design goals tolerate risks for merging systems is up to
you. What you propose will FUNCTION as expected as long
as everything is working right.
Also, I've read what it says about grounding, etc., in the
AeroElectric Connection, and the possibility for errors because of
resistance through different ground paths. However, I find that the
UMA instruments have in general four connections: +12V, GND, sensor
+ve, sensor -ve, all connected via a DB-9 socket. Does this mean that
the sensor input has a sort of privileged design because it has its
own ground going direct the instrument? The two grounds could be
connected internally I guess, but I can't work out what difference
that would make!
Probably no functional differences. However, it's
been my observation over the years that spending a lot
of time adding complexity for some perceived future
convenience has a poor return on investment. Suggest
you 'enhance' the stock jack-screws and wire each
instrument as a stand-alone system while minimizing
features shared with other systems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Interesting tid-bits from history of herding electrons. |
While working on a little research project I ran across a
couple of repositories that speak to the simple-ideas of
yesteryear.
This work on aircraft electrical systems is dated (1979) but
the physics that makes things work is well explained and
amply demonstrated. Some of the AeroElectric List community
may find this both interesting and re-enforcement of
understanding.
http://tinyurl.com/3296ed9
This website doesn't have much to do with aviation except
that it's a certainty that many pieces of "artistic"
glass depicted were foundations for airborne communications
and navigation equipment dating back to the first Army Air Corps
airborne radio experiments in the early 1920s.
http://electricstuff.co.uk/
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tri State Logic help needed |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Trying to wire stick grip to control Airmaster electric constant prop manual control
(jog to course or fine) we came to realization we are one wire short on
connector.
Thus it would save a lot of time and effort if I could use Tri State Logic for
a solution.
I could easily have one wire with three states using my SPTT switch on stick.
1) Infinite resistance (not connected to anything) when switch is in neutral
2)+12V when pushing momentary switch forward
3) (-) ground when pushing momentary switch back
My goals:
** Have 2) +12V energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Course
** Have 3) (-) energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Fine
** Have 1) NOT energize either Course or Fine relay
Any help and or ideas greatly appreciated.
I think I would rather use relays compared to solid state because I just don't
know what is going on inside the constant speed controller, and relay contacts
can easily replicate resistance compared to supplied switch.
I am OK with failure mode of circuit and relays because I plan to replicate for
each stick (2).
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299239#299239
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tri State Logic help needed |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Ron,
How about using a double pole switch in place of a single pole
version. You can put the 0 and 12V onto the two inputs of the switch,
and wire the outputs together so that they swap them between 0V on one
and 12V on the other, to 12V on one and 0V on the other. Perhaps a
suitable switch exists for this.
A picture would doubtless speak a thousand words, but I have to dash
up the paintshop because the plane's in the middle of being painted.
If it's not clear I'll draw and send later.
HTH.
James
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:21 AM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Trying to wire stick grip to control Airmaster electric constant prop manual
control (jog to course or fine) we came to realization we are one wire short on
connector.
>
> Thus it would save a lot of time and effort if I could use Tri State Logic for
a solution.
>
> I could easily have one wire with three states using my SPTT switch on stick.
> 1) Infinite resistance (not connected to anything) when switch is in neutral
> 2)+12V when pushing momentary switch forward
> 3) (-) ground when pushing momentary switch back
>
> My goals:
> ** Have 2) +12V energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Course
> ** Have 3) (-) energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Fine
> ** Have 1) NOT energize either Course or Fine relay
>
> Any help and or ideas greatly appreciated.
>
> I think I would rather use relays compared to solid state because I just don't
know what is going on inside the constant speed controller, and relay contacts
can easily replicate resistance compared to supplied switch.
>
> I am OK with failure mode of circuit and relays because I plan to replicate for
each stick (2).
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299239#299239
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tri State Logic help needed |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi James
Thx. for the reply.
We are using a Ray Allen G-205 stick grips (2). There ain't much room in there.
We are using an ultra miniature single pole triple throw switch as sold by them
to bearly fit in the aux position. There is no room for a triple throw double
pole switch. We have a 9 pin connector that lives in the stick itself, all
the pins are used up.
Currently we are using two 5 twisted wires. If we added another separate wire which
would then be two 5 twisted and a single wire, decided to take apart stick
grip and rewire and search for an 11 pin connector that would fit in stick we
could make do with the single pole triple throw switch.
Stick grips are wired, connectors and wires are complete:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31677
Wayne made assumption that we could use ship +12v and (-) which he did on schematic.
Kinda found out tonight we shot ourselves in foot as you really need to
use +12v and (-) that is located on Airmaster controller.
Anyway leaving alone stick grip, wiring of stick grip, stick grip connectors and
two already made 5 wire harnesses (times two, Pilot and Co-Pilot) if we could
leave existing alone anduse tri state logic to redeem ourselves, would be a
big time and effort saver.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299242#299242
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tri State Logic help needed |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Oops, meant Ray Allen G-207 stick Grip:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/stickgrips.html
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299243#299243
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | D-subminiature Connectors |
5/29/2010
Hello Fellow Builders, Here is what we are writing about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
Bob Nuckolls writes: "It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come
with
short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY
difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire
bundles." ..and ... "the inconvenience of stock, slot-head jack-screws."
{RESPONSE} He offers a screw handling solution here:
http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with hex
socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head allows one to
manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior to a straight slot or
phillips drive head screw.
See here for a source of such screws:
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
Here is just one source of tools for handling these screws:
http://www.bondhus.com/
Conventional Allen wrenches work fine for most handling of these screws, but
these Prohold tools will give even more control if needed:
http://www.bondhus.com/features/prohold/body-0.htm
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: An aerospace vehicle with hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive
fasteners is much easier to work on than a vehicle with straight slot or
Phillips drive fasteners. See here for some handy tool kits to work with the
hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive fasteners:
http://www.chapmanmfg.com/
=======================================================
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Gauge wiring best practice
I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to
be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting
other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors,
with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at
least).
Keep in mind that every connector interface adds three new
joints to every wire. Running lots of electro-goodies through a
single connector adds a single point of failure for all
those electro-goodies........
BIG SKIP
Probably no functional differences. However, it's
been my observation over the years that spending a lot
of time adding complexity for some perceived future
convenience has a poor return on investment. Suggest
you 'enhance' the stock jack-screws and wire each
instrument as a stand-alone system while minimizing
features shared with other systems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Tri State Logic help needed |
Ron;
Attached is a circuit which is not particularly elegant will function as
you've requested. I'm not certain that the possible failure modes are
acceptable, or that you'd be happy with the relays constantly energized
which is the way this circuit operates, but for what it's worth here it is.
Sketch is shown with power disconnected, relays in relaxed (off) position.
This circuit will connect the fine and coarse wires to each other during
normal flight operation. If this is not acceptable then a diode could be
introduced in each of these wires to isolate them from each other.
* With the stick switch in centre - no connection - (Situation 1) both
relays are energized and no power can flow to either coarse or fine output
wire.
* With stick switch supplying +12V - (Situation 2) - Upper relay has
+12 on both ends of coil, therefore turns off and lower relay supplies +12V
to "coarse" wire.
* With stick switch supplying ground - (situation 3) - Lower relay has
both sides of coil grounded therefore turns off and upper relay supplies
+12V to "fine" wire.
Resistors should be approximately the same resistance and wattage as the
relay coils. You require a resistor in the lead from each stick switch so
that in a situation where one stick is selecting coarse and the other fine,
the resistors dissipate the energy which would otherwise be a dead short
through the grip switches. In this scenario, theoretically the relay common
point would remain at 6 Volts and no pitch change would happen. You could
also incorporate a panel switch into this circuit, wired the same way. Note
also the relays have 6 Volt coils.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris
> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:22 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tri State Logic help needed
>
>
> Trying to wire stick grip to control Airmaster electric constant prop
manual control
> (jog to course or fine) we came to realization we are one wire short on
connector.
>
> Thus it would save a lot of time and effort if I could use Tri State Logic
for a solution.
>
> I could easily have one wire with three states using my SPTT switch on
stick.
> 1) Infinite resistance (not connected to anything) when switch is in
neutral
> 2)+12V when pushing momentary switch forward
> 3) (-) ground when pushing momentary switch back
>
> My goals:
> ** Have 2) +12V energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Course
> ** Have 3) (-) energize a 5 amp relay which runs prop Fine
> ** Have 1) NOT energize either Course or Fine relay
>
> Any help and or ideas greatly appreciated.
>
> I think I would rather use relays compared to solid state because I just
don't know
> what is going on inside the constant speed controller, and relay contacts
can easily
> replicate resistance compared to supplied switch.
>
> I am OK with failure mode of circuit and relays because I plan to
replicate for each
> stick (2).
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299239#299239
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
> _-
> ====================================================
> ======
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: D-subminiature Connectors |
>
>
>I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with
>hex socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head
>allows one to manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior
>to a straight slot or phillips drive head screw.
Good put Bob! I'd neglected to include that
process. I use a LOT of the hex-headed cap
screws in the various instrumentation packages
I've developed.
This whole system is held together with
hex-cap screws.
http://tinyurl.com/3xzsvrd
http://tinyurl.com/3xzsvrd
. . . very handy . . . especially when numerous
assembly/disassembly operations are necessary.
Thanks for adding this to the recipes for success.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: D-subminiature Connectors |
I've updated the image at:
http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
to include Bob's contribution to the question
of user friendly jackscrews.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
Bob,
I built the 'Prop Pitch Current Limiter and Electronic CB' circuit last week
and tested it today.
It works as expected, with one minor difficulty - the Amber LED doesn't come
on! It flashes briefly when the switch is released, but that's it. The
Green LED is lit when the motor is in operation, and the CB feature works
great - the motor stops when the current is a bit over 9 amps. The IRFP3703
barely gets warm, but the 0.2 ohm resister does get warm (not too hot to
touch - didn't measure).
What would cause the Amber LED to not come on? Could I have installed it
backwards? (I double checked, but Murphy's Law has not been repealed)
One of my EAA Chapter buddies has an O-scope I can borrow, so what (and how)
to check?
Thanks,
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: D-subminiature Connectors |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Nice one, thank you. That's excellent & timely advice.
James
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:49 PM, wrote:
>
> 5/29/2010
>
> Hello Fellow Builders, Here is what we are writing about:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
>
> Bob Nuckolls writes: "It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come
> with
> short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY
> difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire
> bundles." ..and ... "the inconvenience of stock, slot-head jack-screws."
>
> {RESPONSE} He offers a screw handling solution here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
>
> I'd like to offer another solution -- use #4-40 machine screws with hex
> socket (Allen wrench) drive heads. The hex socket drive head allows one to
> manuever the small screws in a manner vastly superior to a straight slot or
> phillips drive head screw.
>
> See here for a source of such screws:
>
> http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> Here is just one source of tools for handling these screws:
>
> http://www.bondhus.com/
>
> Conventional Allen wrenches work fine for most handling of these screws, but
> these Prohold tools will give even more control if needed:
>
> http://www.bondhus.com/features/prohold/body-0.htm
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> PS: An aerospace vehicle with hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive
> fasteners is much easier to work on than a vehicle with straight slot or
> Phillips drive fasteners. See here for some handy tool kits to work with the
> hex socket or Torx / six lobe / star drive fasteners:
>
> http://www.chapmanmfg.com/
>
> =======================================================
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Gauge wiring best practice
>
>
> I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to
> be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting
> other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors,
> with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at
> least).
>
> Keep in mind that every connector interface adds three new
> joints to every wire. Running lots of electro-goodies through a
> single connector adds a single point of failure for all
> those electro-goodies........
>
> BIG SKIP
>
>
> Probably no functional differences. However, it's
> been my observation over the years that spending a lot
> of time adding complexity for some perceived future
> convenience has a poor return on investment. Suggest
> you 'enhance' the stock jack-screws and wire each
> instrument as a stand-alone system while minimizing
> features shared with other systems.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gauge wiring best practice |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Bob,
Thanks for the insights. Perhaps with some smallish changes to the
panel, to make it easily removable, it will become easier to implement
a fewer-connections electrical installation. The standard DB9s _are_
a pain, but your suggestions, and the others', are definitely going to
make life easier...
James
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
> I would like to make the panel easily disconnectable, and I'm going to
> be using something like Tyco AMP MATE-N-LOK connectors for connecting
> other things to the panel. (These are multi-way locking connectors,
> with crimped pins, supporting various wire gauges -- 10-30AWG at
> least).
>
> Keep in mind that every connector interface adds three new
> joints to every wire. Running lots of electro-goodies through a
> single connector adds a single point of failure for all
> those electro-goodies.
>
> To connect the UMA instruments, I figure I can go one of two ways:
>
> 1) wire each UMA-supplied DB9 connector straight through to the power
> bus, ground bus, and sender. The downside is that I'd have to screw /
> unscrew many connectors to disconnect the 8 or so UMA instruments,
> which might be quick tricky behind the panel.
>
> 2) wire all the DB9 connectors to a multi-way MATE-N-LOK plug behind
> the panel, and then wire a MATE-N-LOK socket to the various sensors
> and whatnot. This would give me the big advantage of being able to
> disconnect all engine instruments in one connector.
>
> I don't see any downside to this, but any input would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> You can do this . . . but you'll never find it done
> on production aircraft either commercial or military.
> It's a little-value-added activity that does add
> significant cost-of-ownership and reduces reliability.
>
> You can replace the stock jack-screws with devices
> having extended handles designed for access with
> the bare fingers.
>
> It's a fact that the majority of d-sub connectors come with
> short, slotted-head 4-40 jack screws that are EXCEEDINGLY
> difficult to work with in confined spaces traversed by wire
> bundles. Theres a host of fingers-only, d-sub retention
> systems including Positronics V-series and mil-spec slide
> locks. There's also a handy but seldom offered wire-bale-
> and-clip that used to be VERY popular on printer connectors.
> These are easy to incorporate into new products were you want
> to order thousands . . . but unfortunately, they're not
> often found as catalog items.
>
> The computer world has offered a variety of extended jack-screw
> handles, most of which can be operated with the bare fingers.
> My personal choice is the DIY extended jackscrew fabricated
> from a piece of 4-40 screw and 3/16" hex threaded spacer.
> See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/34nrdd5
>
> When accessed with the nifty miniature nut-driver from
> Xcelite (or similar) one can get a better feel of just
> how tight the screw is when replacing it . . . and
> it's a light-year away from the inconvenience of
> stock, slot-head jack-screws.
>
> Secondly, I note that each of the instruments requires a 12V supply
> and a ground. Can all these engine instruments be connected together
> at the instrument panel and then run to the power bus and ground bus
> in two "big" wires, or should I run two separate wires back for each
> instrument?
>
> Failure-tolerant design suggests that every electro-whizzie
> be treated as a separate system . . . i.e. no single failure
> affects more than one system. Just how much your personal
> design goals tolerate risks for merging systems is up to
> you. What you propose will FUNCTION as expected as long
> as everything is working right.
>
> Also, I've read what it says about grounding, etc., in the
> AeroElectric Connection, and the possibility for errors because of
> resistance through different ground paths. However, I find that the
> UMA instruments have in general four connections: +12V, GND, sensor
> +ve, sensor -ve, all connected via a DB-9 socket. Does this mean that
> the sensor input has a sort of privileged design because it has its
> own ground going direct the instrument? The two grounds could be
> connected internally I guess, but I can't work out what difference
> that would make!
>
> Probably no functional differences. However, it's
> been my observation over the years that spending a lot
> of time adding complexity for some perceived future
> convenience has a poor return on investment. Suggest
> you 'enhance' the stock jack-screws and wire each
> instrument as a stand-alone system while minimizing
> features shared with other systems.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
At 07:43 PM 5/29/2010, you wrote:
Bob,
I built the 'Prop Pitch Current Limiter and Electronic CB' circuit last week
and tested it today.
It works as expected, with one minor difficulty - the Amber LED doesn't come
on! It flashes briefly when the switch is released, but that's it. The
Green LED is lit when the motor is in operation, and the CB feature works
great - the motor stops when the current is a bit over 9 amps. The IRFP3703
barely gets warm, but the 0.2 ohm resister does get warm (not too hot to
touch - didn't measure).
What would cause the Amber LED to not come on? Could I have installed it
backwards? (I double checked, but Murphy's Law has not been repealed)
One of my EAA Chapter buddies has an O-scope I can borrow, so what (and how)
to check?
The amber light will illuminate only while the circuit
is POWERED UP and in a current limited mode. This is when
the voltage across the source shunts of Q114 exceed the
Vbe drop of Q115. Q115 collector goes low and does two things:
(1) it deprives Q114 of gate drive thus limiting total motor
current to some value that provides one Vbe drop of voltage
across the source shunts. This is where current limiting happens.
During this time, Q115 is in a linear mode of operation.
(2) Q115 also pulls down on the base of Q103 which should
switch it on "hard" . . . i.e. collector rises very close to
level of applied voltage. This causes C112 to charge through
R106 until the voltage reaches the magnitude of zener
conduction. When the zener starts to conduct, it pulls up
firmly (through 1K and zener) on the base of Q115 which
should turn it on hard (switch mode) and deprive Q114
of ALL gate drive, thus shutting the motor OFF.
As long as power remains applied, Q103 and Q115 should
remain turned on hard (Q103 collector near applied votlage,
Q115 collector near ground) and the amber LED should be
illuminated and the motor should remain un-powered.
As soon as you release the switch, the Q115/Q103 "latch"
should release. The capacitor discharges through R106,
a forward biased collector-base junction of Q103, R104
and R119. The prepares the circuit for the next operating
cycle.
A voltmeter or scope reading at collector of Q103 should show
a very low voltage (under 1 volt) while the motor is
running mid stroke. When the stroke limit is reached,
the voltage should jump to approximately applied
voltage and remain there after the motor shuts down
with the prop pitch switch still held. During this
time, the amber LED should be lit.
If you trigger the 'scope on the rising edge of
the voltage at collector of Q103 and use the other
channel to watch the gate drive to Q114, gate
drive should go away 100-200 milliseconds after
Q103 collector goes high.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
I discovered a wiring error in my circuit. Hopefully tomorrow I can fix it
and re-test.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
I corrected my wiring error and the circuit works perfectly! The amber LED
comes on when the current hits the limit (about 9A), and stays on as long as
the switch is held, but current to the motor drops to basically nothing
(measured with a clamp on ammeter on the ground lead). The IRFP3703 doesn't
even get noticeably warm (above the 90F ambient today!).
It will be next weekend at the earliest that I can get the Oscilloscope and
take the readings you described, but I would bet the readings will be as you
predict :-)
An implementation question: Are the values of R105 and R107 (the 1K
resistors in series with the LEDs) critical? The reason I ask is that I
have a couple of ready to mount LEDs that already have resistors built-in
for 12V use. I don't know what values they use for the resistors. My
suspicion is that they would work fine, but I don't want to spoil a
perfectly good recipe!
Thanks again!
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please |
(For a certified aircraft) I will be replacing my Cessna amp gauge with
the Electronics International Ammeter/Voltmeter, which is FAA approved for
my aircraft as a primary gauge replacement using a "shunt".
1. Should the shunt be mounted inside the cockpit or in the engine
compartment.
2. Should the shunt be firmly mounted to the firewall or other structure,
or is it ok to "freehang", it doesn't seem to be bigger than the turn
coordinator capacitor that just hangs in the harness.
3. The wires that go from the shunt to the instrument are hot whenever
the master switch is on. The installation manual recommends a 1 amp fuse on
each wire. What is the best fusing practice? inline fuse on each lead
next to the shunt? fuseable link? don't worry, the wire will burn out
somewhere before it causes problems? are there any shunts that incorporate a mini
atc fuse in its base?
4. For tidiness, I would like to use a single conductor shielded wire
using the shield as one of the shunt leads. Is there any reason this is not a
good idea? would twisting the leads in a drill mess up the accuracy?
5. Is there any reason I shouldn't take the voltage/power/light power off
of one of the ammeter leads (the one on the same side of the shunt as the
rest of the bus) to save running extra wire?
Thanks for the help, Skip S
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Skip,
You are needlessly complicating your electrical system by adding an external
shunt, voltage power lights, fusible links etc. Order the EI
VA-1A<http://buy-ei.com/Pages/VA/VA_Overview.html>replacement
ammeter/voltmeter with the INTERNAL shunt. If your Cessna
wiring was like my Cardinal stock ammeter, it also had an internal shunt and
if you replace with the VA-1A, you will not have to make ANY changes to the
"big" wires.
You can see it in
this<http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/cardinal/panel/panel88.html>picture,
lower left:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/cardinal/panel/panel88.html
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 2:55 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> From: CardinalNSB(at)aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please
>
> (For a certified aircraft) I will be replacing my Cessna amp gauge with
> the Electronics International Ammeter/Voltmeter, which is FAA approved for
> my aircraft as a primary gauge replacement using a "shunt".
>
> 1. Should the shunt be mounted inside the cockpit or in the engine
> compartment.
>
> 2. Should the shunt be firmly mounted to the firewall or other structure,
> or is it ok to "freehang", it doesn't seem to be bigger than the turn
> coordinator capacitor that just hangs in the harness.
>
> 3. The wires that go from the shunt to the instrument are hot whenever
> the master switch is on. The installation manual recommends a 1 amp fuse
> on
> each wire. What is the best fusing practice? inline fuse on each lead
> next to the shunt? fuseable link? don't worry, the wire will burn out
> somewhere before it causes problems? are there any shunts that incorporate
> a mini
>
> atc fuse in its base?
>
> 4. For tidiness, I would like to use a single conductor shielded wire
> using the shield as one of the shunt leads. Is there any reason this is
> not a
>
> good idea? would twisting the leads in a drill mess up the accuracy?
>
> 5. Is there any reason I shouldn't take the voltage/power/light power off
> of one of the ammeter leads (the one on the same side of the shunt as the
> rest of the bus) to save running extra wire?
>
> Thanks for the help, Skip S
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In practice, this
circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls for a mini-contactor for
fused circuits over 7a fused.
My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is effectively a 100%
margin.
Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense with the mini-contactor
and just wire the load directly through the switch.
What say ye?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299577#299577
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Long and short hot feeders |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
I have used Littlefuse modular fuse holders to make up a fuse panel. This presents
the problem of all the fuse holders having a short 6-10" wire to reach the
bus.
Are they short enough to ignore (like the * denoted wires in the Z-figures) or
are fuselinks appropriate here?
I also want to bring the battery bus up close to the fuse panel so that the batt
bus fuses can be displayed in the panel. The # 12-14 hot feeder wire is about
24". Putting a mini-contactor at the battery end seems to defeat the purpose
of the always-hot batt bus, but from previous kicks in my rear, I'm hesitant
to say "fuselink" here.
But I guess I can't help myself!
I'm confused about where fuselinks are appropriate and where they aren't. It seems
like a hot feeder is an appropriate place because I want the feeder hot and
be able to handle inrushes without interruption. But if there's a dead short
on it I want it to fail before all the arcing sets something on fire or melts
adjacent infrastructure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299585#299585
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis" <dennis.glaeser(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
I've been flying for a couple of years now with NK switches (DPST, no relays) for
my Subaru ECU and EFI circuits with no problem. So I say dump the contactor
and switch away!
Dennis
------------------------------------------------
From: jonlaury
In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In practice, this
circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls for a mini-contactor for
fused circuits over 7a fused.
My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is effectively a 100%
margin.
Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense with the mini-contactor
and just wire the load directly through the switch.
What say ye?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
At 02:42 PM 5/31/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>I corrected my wiring error and the circuit works perfectly! The amber LED
>comes on when the current hits the limit (about 9A), and stays on as long as
>the switch is held, but current to the motor drops to basically nothing
>(measured with a clamp on ammeter on the ground lead). The IRFP3703 doesn't
>even get noticeably warm (above the 90F ambient today!).
This is to be expected. The transistor is switched on hard during
normal motor running conditions and therefore dissipates very little
heat. When the system DOES go into current limit, the dissipation can
jump into the 100 WATT class . . . but for only the few milliseconds
it takes for the circuit breaker function to react. So total energy
turned into heat is low.
>It will be next weekend at the earliest that I can get the Oscilloscope and
>take the readings you described, but I would bet the readings will be as you
>predict :-)
I'd be pleased to hear the results of that measurement.
>An implementation question: Are the values of R105 and R107 (the 1K
>resistors in series with the LEDs) critical? The reason I ask is that I
>have a couple of ready to mount LEDs that already have resistors built-in
>for 12V use. I don't know what values they use for the resistors. My
>suspicion is that they would work fine, but I don't want to spoil a
>perfectly good recipe!
Your supposition is probably correct, but let's leave the
1K resistors in place, eliminate the LED's and then tie
your off-the-shelf indicators in PARALLEL with the 1K
resistors. VERY low risk there.
I'm wrapping up a couple of busy consulting projects
but with nothing coming over the visible horizon. Aviation
sucks as a career when there are folks actively engaged
in disrupting an otherwise successful, spontaneous order.
I'll be putting some time into the development of about
a dozen new AEC products. Your assistance in doing the
proof of concept work on this project suggests that
perhaps the IVO Prop Electronic CB should be one of
those products.
I appreciate your time and interest in this activity.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trying to eliminate mini-contactors |
At 12:08 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>In my system, I have a 10-15 amp circuit to the EFI injectors. In
>practice, this circuit will see about 6a , worst case. Bob N calls
>for a mini-contactor for fused circuits over 7a fused.
>My Honeywell switches are rated for 15a resistive, which is
>effectively a 100% margin.
>Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that I could dispense
>with the mini-contactor and just wire the load directly through the switch.
The mini-contactor observes a legacy design
goal in type-certificated aviation for MINIMIZING
the length of always hot wires to some nominal
(6-inch) length or protection (7A fuse/5A breaker).
This is not an operational issue. It's MOSTLY based
on crash safety analysis that goes back decades.
What you propose will function as advertised
and as long as you avoid flying into hard
places, the risks are low. It's your choice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 12:36 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have used Littlefuse modular fuse holders to make up a fuse panel.
>This presents the problem of all the fuse holders having a short
>6-10" wire to reach the bus.
Why so long?
>Are they short enough to ignore (like the * denoted wires in the
>Z-figures) or are fuselinks appropriate here?
>
>
>I also want to bring the battery bus up close to the fuse panel so
>that the batt bus fuses can be displayed in the panel. The # 12-14
>hot feeder wire is about 24". Putting a mini-contactor at the
>battery end seems to defeat the purpose of the always-hot batt bus,
>but from previous kicks in my rear, I'm hesitant to say "fuselink" here.
>
>But I guess I can't help myself!
>
>I'm confused about where fuselinks are appropriate and where they
>aren't. It seems like a hot feeder is an appropriate place because I
>want the feeder hot and be able to handle inrushes without
>interruption. But if there's a dead short on it I want it to fail
>before all the arcing sets something on fire or melts adjacent infrastructure.
Fusible links are recommended ONLY where depicted
on the z-figures. Check the archives for lots
of discussion.
I'm mystified as to the value in building a distribution
component that has so many crafted joints and detail
parts. Off-the-shelf fuse blocks were originally proposed
for their cost of ownership savings over the legacy
breaker panel configurations.
But it seems you're driving your parts count up
markedly along with $time$ invested to construct
and maintain it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Amp Shunt Mounting Help Please |
At 08:42 PM 5/31/2010, you wrote:
>(For a certified aircraft) I will be replacing my Cessna amp gauge
>with the Electronics International Ammeter/Voltmeter, which is FAA
>approved for my aircraft as a primary gauge replacement using a "shunt".
Bill offered an excellent alternative if that's an option
for you. The stock Cessna ammeters were minus-zero-plus
battery ammeters with internal shunts. The electronic
drop-in replacment is a good bet.
>
>1. Should the shunt be mounted inside the cockpit or in the engine
>compartment.
close to where the old ammeter was mounted. Ideally
you'd like to put the ORIGINAL ammeter wires directly
on the new shunt.
>
>2. Should the shunt be firmly mounted to the firewall or other
>structure, or is it ok to "freehang", it doesn't seem to be bigger
>than the turn coordinator capacitor that just hangs in the harness.
Your observation is correct but you might
have trouble getting that past the next
annual inspection.
>
>3. The wires that go from the shunt to the instrument are hot
>whenever the master switch is on. The installation manual
>recommends a 1 amp fuse on each wire. What is the best fusing
>practice? inline fuse on each lead next to the shunt? fuseable
>link? don't worry, the wire will burn out somewhere before it
>causes problems? are there any shunts that incorporate a mini atc
>fuse in its base?
No . . . you don't ALREADY have a shunt?
Use 1 amp, in-line holders. If your shunt
is close to the ammeter hole in the panel,
then I'd just make the leads out of 24AWG
wire, put a couple layers of heat shrink over
them and no fuses. Their ability to smoke
is limited.
>
>4. For tidiness, I would like to use a single conductor shielded
>wire using the shield as one of the shunt leads. Is there any
>reason this is not a good idea? would twisting the leads in a drill
>mess up the accuracy?
Single wires with either 1A in-line fuses
or extra insulated 24AWG and no fuses.
>5. Is there any reason I shouldn't take the voltage/power/light
>power off of one of the ammeter leads (the one on the same side of
>the shunt as the rest of the bus) to save running extra wire?
Not REAL sure without knowing more about
the instrument's capabilities. Try it and
see. Otherwise, it's always best to follow
installation instructions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Is one of them the AEC9004-1 IR alternator controller? Inquiring minds
about to re-do their ship's electrical system want to know!
>
> >> I'll be putting some time into the development of about
> a dozen new AEC products. <<
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
At 02:45 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>Is one of them the AEC9004-1 IR alternator controller? Inquiring
>minds about to re-do their ship's electrical system want to know!
Yes it is.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Many thanks for help on thumbdrive problem |
I've received quite a few more devices than needed. I'll
pass some along to Dr. Dee who can use them to pass files
to her students.
This generous effort by List members will pump a few
more jobs worth of utility into a trustworthy but now
somewhat dated tool.
In the mean time, I've purchased a new toy from the
folks at DATAQ. See:
http://www.dataq.com/products/startkit/di148.htm
This little critter will gather 8 channels of 10
bit data at up to 240 samples/second as received.
It's only $50. Software that will boost it to
14,000 s/s is another $200. I've already used
this device with the supercharged software to
get some nice data on a project for Hawker-Beech.
Keep in mind that ONE of the very useful things to
do on your 40-hour fly-off is to get answers to
questions that very few builders have. MOST of
those answers may be insignificant . . . but a
few are.
Keep in mind that except for rudimentary voltage
and temperature measurements, some signal conditioning
circuitry will also be needed. It's easy to build.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bob,
Re length:
That's how far away my fuse panel is from the buss. Understand that the modular
fuseholders are single fuse holders that you can clip together to make any size
fuseholder you desire. You can fit more fuses in the same space as the off-the-shelf
blocks.
see http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/155_153PCMount.pdf
They allowed me to fit all my fuses into available space. I wanted to be able to
see the panel because I intend to use the ATO fuses with a blown indicator light.
So yes, there are two additional crafted connections on the pigtail to the bus.
And yes it's a lot more work to make a panel to accomodate the modular system.
And yes, the modular cost savings over a pre-configured plug'n play panel is
negligible. And yes none of this makes any sense, except that I like the look
of the panel that I made.
:D
So would fusible links be appropriate for the pigtails?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299631#299631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Speaking of soldering . . . |
I just received this little gem in the mail from an Ebay
seller. $15.00 delivered to the door. Unlike similar (and
more expensive tools) this one has an important feature.
The gas valve is vernier and can be turned down to
a very low rate. Some other tools I've had are too hot
even on the lowest settings that will keep the fire
lit.
Emacs!
Note that these tools have an open flame only while warming
up. You run them wide open until the exterior flames go out
and the openings glow orange with internal combustion of the
gas. Wait until the tip just melt your 63/37 solder
then turn the gas down until the brightest of the openings
shows only a tinge of color.
At this energy level, small joints can be made nicely
while not turning the tip to super-corroded trash.
It can also run as a tiny torch for small silver-soldering
jobs.
If I discover any down-sides to this recent purchase,
I'll let the group know.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bob,
In your FAQ on the AC, you say:
"Fusible links are used when you have a
single leadwire to protect where it is VERY unlikely that it will ever see a serious
fault and/or
where the
ultimate in circuit reliablity is needed."
Additionaly you speak of using fusible links to "extend the bus..."
It seems that running a wire from the battery to a remote battery buss meets the
fusible link appropriate useage you've discussed. But your caveat about not
adding fusible links to Z-figures gives me pause. I'm not comfortable second guessing
your expertise.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299643#299643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 05:08 PM 6/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>In your FAQ on the AC, you say:
>"Fusible links are used when you have a
>single leadwire to protect where it is VERY unlikely that it will
>ever see a serious fault and/or
>where the
>ultimate in circuit reliablity is needed."
Yes. In this regard, they are very much like
the ANL current limiters. Exceedingly robust
but weak link in the electron chain . . .
>Additionaly you speak of using fusible links to "extend the bus..."
but ONLY in the configuration depicted. This
is a special case for using a circuit breaker
upstream of a crowbar ov module when the bus
is a distribution point for fuses. If the
crowbar module is installed in an aircraft
with a classic breaker panel, then the "extended"
bus is not needed and the breaker gets installed
right next to its brothers and sisters.
If you have an array of fuses or breakers used
to distribute power in the aircraft, then the
BUS is located right at the upstream side of
that fuse or breaker. This is how you get the low
parts count and compact assembly. We don't
bring an array of wires off a bus to fuse(s)
or breaker(s) and hence to the protected loads.
If you're going to assemble your own fuse block,
then what you've proposed will FUNCTION as
advertised . . . but it's not something that
anyone in the business would recommend.
>It seems that running a wire from the battery to a remote battery
>buss meets the fusible link appropriate useage you've discussed.
Absolutely not. Always hot wires are either
crew controlled -OR- protected at low levels
on the order of 7A fuse or 5A breaker. If
you are attaching wires to the battery and they
have lengths greater than the 6-inch rule of
thumb then the design goal for low magnitude
protection applies. In other words, a battery bus is
located next to the battery. Any other location
makes it something else.
> But your caveat about not adding fusible links to Z-figures gives
> me pause. I'm not comfortable second guessing your expertise.
The wires you propose are simply wires. There is
no useful purpose in calling them or designing them
to be "fusible links". Wire it up and it WILL
function.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of soldering . . . |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Be sure the thing has a positive "off." I had one from WalMart that would
not shut all the way off (I discovered the hard way) and nearly burned my
house down putting it away next to a jug of paint thinner when done with a
soldering job. I turned it off, but unbeknownst to me, it did not go all
the way out. After I discovered and fought the paint thinner fire on my
work bench, the torch was still burning - even after I tossed it out the
door into the driveway in all the excitement. "Never again!" It's the
little things...
Bill B
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> I just received this little gem in the mail from an Ebay
> seller. $15.00 delivered to the door. Unlike similar (and
> more expensive tools) this one has an important feature.
>
> The gas valve is vernier and can be turned down to
> a very low rate. Some other tools I've had are too hot
> even on the lowest settings that will keep the fire
> lit.
>
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Note that these tools have an open flame only while warming
> up. You run them wide open until the exterior flames go out
> and the openings glow orange with internal combustion of the
> gas. Wait until the tip just melt your 63/37 solder
> then turn the gas down until the brightest of the openings
> shows only a tinge of color.
>
> At this energy level, small joints can be made nicely
> while not turning the tip to super-corroded trash.
>
> It can also run as a tiny torch for small silver-soldering
> jobs.
>
> If I discover any down-sides to this recent purchase,
> I'll let the group know.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: IVO Prop Electronic CB report |
>An implementation question: Are the values of R105 and R107 (the 1K
>resistors in series with the LEDs) critical? The reason I ask is that I
>have a couple of ready to mount LEDs that already have resistors built-in
>for 12V use. I don't know what values they use for the resistors. My
>suspicion is that they would work fine, but I don't want to spoil a
>perfectly good recipe!
Your supposition is probably correct, but let's leave the
1K resistors in place, eliminate the LED's and then tie
your off-the-shelf indicators in PARALLEL with the 1K
resistors. VERY low risk there.
---> I decided it is just as easy to stick with the original design. I also
have some LED mounts that are more compact and will provide a cleaner look.
I'll be putting some time into the development of about
a dozen new AEC products. Your assistance in doing the
proof of concept work on this project suggests that
perhaps the IVO Prop Electronic CB should be one of
those products.
---> I certainly agree! I'll bet the folks at IVO would be interested.
Everyone who has an IVO should be interested!
I appreciate your time and interest in this activity.
---> Well, I was the one who asked for help. And within a week I had an
operational solution in the reed switch. Now I have an electronic solution
that is operationally foolproof. A pretty good investment in time and
interest in my book, and a lot of fun to boot!
Thanks,
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Aargh!
I hate arguing with common sense and good design when I've spent all that time
making that cute little panel.
But your reasoning is hard to refute.
Honestly I got so caught up in making this cool fuse panel and getting 30 fuses
in a tight pattern that I overlooked the fact that I was going to have a whole
nest of hot wires to deal with.
Just have to get used to not being able to see my fuses and comfort myself with
fewer parts count and fewer constructed joints. And ditto on the battery bus.
It's moving back to the battery.
Again thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I makes it a little easier
to throw that fuse panel into the trash.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299702#299702
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 12:43 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote:
Aargh!
I hate arguing with common sense and good design when I've spent all
that time making that cute little panel.
But your reasoning is hard to refute.
Honestly I got so caught up in making this cool fuse panel and
getting 30 fuses in a tight pattern that I overlooked the fact that I
was going to have a whole nest of hot wires to deal with.
Just have to get used to not being able to see my fuses and comfort
myself with fewer parts count and fewer constructed joints. And ditto
on the battery bus. It's moving back to the battery.
Again thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I makes it a
little easier to throw that fuse panel into the trash.
You're not alone. EVERY finely tuned recipe for success was
preceded by many if not thousands of experiments that were
discarded.
Thomas Edison was often referred to as the "master experimenter"
in recognition of his patience and persistence in the conduct
of his craft. Charles Kettering, ditto.
I cannot begin to deduce the magnitude of my own efforts that
that ultimately went into the trash . . . the reason being
that those experiences were discarded both physically and
intellectually. But when the effort was successful, the
work product went into useful service and the recipe for
success went into the intellectual archives for future
reference.
I recall visiting an estate sale about 20 years ago that
included a lot of goodies from a ham radio operator that
had departed this earthly plane. While digging through a pile
of stuff, I was startled to see a familiar device. It was
a vacuum tube electronic code keyer that I built for another
ham perhaps 25 years earlier . . . I don't know how many times
it changed hands but it was still functional. Further, I
could still draw a schematic for the thing.
Good education is NEVER inexpensive in terms of $time$
and slips to schedule. But it seems to me that the most
"expensive" lessons are best retained. By having
this discussion on the List, we're reducing the investment
necessary for others to benefit from simple-ideas
that go into their own exploitation of the same recipe for
success. If it's any consolation, your loss contributes
to the gains of others . . . but only if it's shared.
I've often remarked to publishers of my articles that
they solicit articles on failures too. I always get a
reaction of surprise and perhaps dismay. I then explain
that it's often more useful to know what does not work
as things that do work. It's a prophylactic against repeating
the same failure over and over again.
Keep at it my friend and thanks for participating.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Reid" <allthegooduseridsaregone(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Joining RG58 to RG400 |
I constructed my empennage in 2003 (hard to believe it's been that long!)
from fiberglass with four internal RST copper foil antenna (COM1, COM2, VOR,
ELT) plus a MB antenna running down the fiberglass dorsal fin. I used Radio
Shack RG58 coax at the time 'coz it was conveniently available as I was
closing out the empennage -- following the RST directions for baluns on the
connection between foil and coax. I used 40-ish foot lengths of the RG58
from each antenna (coiled up for now) to leave me plenty to reach the back
of the instrument panel without any break.
A year-ish later, I learned via this forum of the much lighter, slimmer, and
more elegant RG400 coax. I bought five 15-foot lengths of RG400, with male
BNCs attached on each end, through a "bulk purchase" offered in this forum
in 2004 (hard to believe it's been that long!).
So now, as I'm finally getting around to routing my wires and coax forward,
I'd like to cut off each of the RG58's just behind the rear seats (where I
can still easily reach them) and connect to the RG400's for the remaining
14-ish foot trip forward to the rear of the panel.
Should I install a female BNC connector on the RG58 for connecting to the
mail BNC on the RG400, or can I directly splice the RG58 to the RG400 ...
while doing my best to maintain a continuous outer shielding across the
transition?
Or would I be asking for trouble (e.g. mismatched impedance reflections) by
mixing RG58 with RG400 ... so just continue with the RG58 all the way
forward?
Thanks,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Joining RG58 to RG400 |
>
>Or would I be asking for trouble (e.g. mismatched impedance reflections) by
>mixing RG58 with RG400 ... so just continue with the RG58 all the way
The performance difference between the two materials is slight.
Your VHF radios are not going to work better in any observable way.
I think the drive is going to be parts count. The act of splicing
the two feeders together adds a handful of parts with the
additional risk of future failure. If it's not practical to
replace the 58 with contiguous lengths of 400, I think I'd
opt to leave the 58 in place. But a cable male/female joint
would be quite acceptable too.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of soldering |
At 08:10 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote:
>Hello Bob,
>
>What was the product you purchased?
Sorry, here's one of several offerings for the
tool on Ebay.
http://tinyurl.com/278pb3w
Bill makes an important point. This critter is
an ignition hazard so be cognizant of the working
environment. Combustible liquids with low
vapor pressures are especially hazardous. I keep
cans of "carburetor cleaner" (really a kind of lacquer
thinner in a aerosol can) around for little shots
of de-greasing agent. It avoids having spillable
containers of the stuff around and limits the
amount and duration of combustible mix in the air.
Also, you DO want to check for effective shut-off
for gas flow. I've had a few tools over the years
that would leak out in the toolbox . . . but this
is rare. You can charge your new tool and just let
it set for a goodly amount of time and make sure
it's tight. You can perhaps smell gas flows that are
too small to hear.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Markey <markeypilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Found the Cause of My Problems |
-
I recently have been fighting a whole bunch of electrical gremlins:
1. Booster pump would work intermittently;
2. Engine gages would or wouldn't function [GRT EIS];
3. Starter would not engage - bang it and it would fire right up!
4. Lost charge on new battery [replaced as a preventive measure after 4 yea
rs]
--- but it mesured @ 12.4 volts when it was "dead".
-
I began with the multimeter this Saturday with 2 other pilots
[this is not necessarily a good thing - the help, that is].
All circuits tested hot when they should be hot, but everything was dead!
-
Hmmm.... after thinkng this little tidbit over, I recalled an old post year
s back
on a similar issue. A contacter or switch making contact, but at high resis
tance
under load, but it "looks OK" under low or no load - e.g., with a
multimeter using a 1.5 volt cell.
-
Sitting under the white plastic bootie that covered it, I found the lock nu
t
loose that attached the main power lead OUT from the main power solenoid.
This nut had somehow come loose over the years, and it was severely pitted
with metal from the arching - probably every time I engaged the starter.
-
Very scary, but hey, I'm VFR.
-
Lesson Learned: check each and every nut at Annual, especially under those
connector covers that sit in hard-to-reach locations.
-
John
Deep peace of the Light of the World to you.
-------------------------
------------------------ --
A Gaelic Blessing
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the
right direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer
antenna in left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag and
E-mag. Radio is excellent on ground in both transmit and receive,
reception in air is OK however when I press the PTT the noise is
horrible with static and breaking up. This has been a consistent
condition. Attempts to correct the problem have been: checking antenna
installation in wingtip, everything seems fine, Checking connectors
where stick PTT plugs into the system, the PTT pin may not have been
fully seated, it is now, trying different headsets. Nothing has solved
the problem to date. I have been working with the tower on this flying
the same circuit and when I contact them it is always somewhere between
almost NORDO to just generally poor communications. When I'm back on the
ground everything is just fine again. Ideas, directions or suggestions?
Jim Thorne
RV-7A CHD
About 12 Hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Joining RG58 to RG400 |
Greg,
Welcome to 2010 :) Hey, time to get building. I did the same on my NAV
(joined it with a female) and found no difference in quality. They are
all rated at 50 ohms. Truthfully, I've never been able to justify the
added cost of the pure RG400 plumbing over the RG58 plumbing. I've also
got 142 plumbing. The RG58 radios work just as well as those with the $$
wire. Of course we could also open a thesis on location, type and
quality of antenna installations. Oh boy.
The more technically wire adept will differ but if you sat in my plane
you'd never know the difference.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Reid
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Joining RG58 to RG400
I constructed my empennage in 2003 (hard to believe it's been that
long!)
from fiberglass with four internal RST copper foil antenna (COM1, COM2,
VOR,
ELT) plus a MB antenna running down the fiberglass dorsal fin. I used
Radio
Shack RG58 coax at the time 'coz it was conveniently available as I was
closing out the empennage -- following the RST directions for baluns on
the
connection between foil and coax. I used 40-ish foot lengths of the
RG58
from each antenna (coiled up for now) to leave me plenty to reach the
back
of the instrument panel without any break.
A year-ish later, I learned via this forum of the much lighter, slimmer,
and
more elegant RG400 coax. I bought five 15-foot lengths of RG400, with
male
BNCs attached on each end, through a "bulk purchase" offered in this
forum
in 2004 (hard to believe it's been that long!).
So now, as I'm finally getting around to routing my wires and coax
forward,
I'd like to cut off each of the RG58's just behind the rear seats (where
I
can still easily reach them) and connect to the RG400's for the
remaining
14-ish foot trip forward to the rear of the panel.
Should I install a female BNC connector on the RG58 for connecting to
the
mail BNC on the RG400, or can I directly splice the RG58 to the RG400
...
while doing my best to maintain a continuous outer shielding across the
transition?
Or would I be asking for trouble (e.g. mismatched impedance reflections)
by
mixing RG58 with RG400 ... so just continue with the RG58 all the way
forward?
Thanks,
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David & Elaine Lamphere" <dalamphere(at)comcast.net> |
Jim,
You didn't say what you were using for a headset and intercom.
If the headset's mike is too sensitive, and your cockpit (while flying)
is so noisy that it overwhelms the intercom (or radio) input - this
could cause your symptoms. If there's a second headphone connected but
left in place (not used), this will also cause a great deal of noise
troubles.
Try and find someone to loan you a different headset (preferrably one
that has active noise cancelling) and see what that does...
Just a suggestion...
Dave L.
Wittman Tailwind (60hrs)
(quite a noisy cockpit: PS1000II intercom and Lightspeed Zulu + 15XL
headsets work OK)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Thorne
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Noise
Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the
right direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer
antenna in left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag and
E-mag. Radio is excellent on ground in both transmit and receive,
reception in air is OK however when I press the PTT the noise is
horrible with static and breaking up. This has been a consistent
condition. Attempts to correct the problem have been: checking antenna
installation in wingtip, everything seems fine, Checking connectors
where stick PTT plugs into the system, the PTT pin may not have been
fully seated, it is now, trying different headsets. Nothing has solved
the problem to date. I have been working with the tower on this flying
the same circuit and when I contact them it is always somewhere between
almost NORDO to just generally poor communications. When I'm back on the
ground everything is just fine again. Ideas, directions or suggestions?
Jim Thorne
RV-7A CHD
About 12 Hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 12:42 PM 6/2/2010, you wrote:
>Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the
>right direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer
>antenna in left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag
>and E-mag. Radio is excellent on ground in both transmit and
>receive, reception in air is OK however when I press the PTT the
>noise is horrible with static and breaking up.
"Static" implies a condition like the noises heard as
a result of lightning strikes, spark plugs firing and
other electrical conditions common to the generation
of sparks. "Breaking up" suggests that the desired signal
(in this case your voice) is there sometimes and
absent for other times.
Does your microphone/headset combo include intercom
operations . . . or can it include such operations?
Are the noises present in intercom mode as well as
radio transmit?
Try a plain ol' hand-held microphone in the place
of your headset microphone. Is the noise condition
any different?
As others have suggested, the condition you describe
is MOST likely a head set problem wherein the noise
cancelling characteristics of the microphone are
poor to nil. While airborne, hit the PTT button
on the stick with the microphone connector unplugged.
Does the noise go away?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Found the Cause of My Problems |
>
>Lesson Learned: check each and every nut at Annual, especially under those
>connector covers that sit in hard-to-reach locations.
Your story is not uncommon. Loosening hardware is one
of the higher-order risks. Nylon or fiber insert lock
nuts are a fair bet. Also, consider a mild thread-locker
designed for maintenance removal. This is especially
useful on contactors with coarse threads more likely
to loosen up under vibration of heavy lead wires
attached. This is another advantage of welding cable
as a fat-wire material . . . the stuff is so flexible
that its ability to transmit torsional vibration to
the stud is far lower than for "aircraft wire".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Amp shunt mount-cockpit or outside? |
Thank you all.
The reason for my change is that the factory charging lead starts at the
alternator on the co-pilot front, goes back to the firewall, crosses the
firewall to the far left, enters the cockpit through the firewall on pilot's
side, goes all the way over to the circuit breaker next to the co-pilot
side hull (buss intersects here), then goes all the way back across to the
pilot's side for the internally shunted Cessna amp gauge, then out the same
firewall hole to the main battery cable.
No, really, it does. 3 funs of fat wires running all the way from left to
right, 2 runs inside the cockpit.
This is part of my general clean up of 45 years of old wiring, etc.
My ap is ok with a minor change of simply going from the alternator into
the cockpit to the cb on the far co-pilot side, then back out the firewall
and then over to intersect the main battery cable.
Using the externally shunted ammeter makes the above possible, also gives
voltage and a settable warnings. EI's instrument is certified as a primary
replacement for the factory gauge, using either the internal or external
shunt.
So last question-should the shunt be mounted in the cockpit or on the
firewall side? Skip S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Amp shunt mount-cockpit or outside? |
Good Afternoon Skip,
Since you have asked. I would Definitely go with the external shunt mounted
in the engine compartment and on the firewall. I would also place a fuse
block on the firewall as close to the shunt as possible for the leads to the
shunt from the cockpit instrument. That is the way Beechcraft mounted the
shunt for the factory gauge on my 1978 V35B. When I added the VA-1 to
monitor the primary and standby alternators I placed the new shunts right
alongside the factory shunt and placed the new fuse blocks alongside the factory
fuse block. I think you will find that one of the wiring options shown by
EI suggests what I have described.
Works great and keeps all those fat wires out of the cockpit!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/2/2010 4:01:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CardinalNSB(at)aol.com writes:
Thank you all.
The reason for my change is that the factory charging lead starts at the
alternator on the co-pilot front, goes back to the firewall, crosses the
firewall to the far left, enters the cockpit through the firewall on pilot's
side, goes all the way over to the circuit breaker next to the co-pilot
side hull (buss intersects here), then goes all the way back across to the
pilot's side for the internally shunted Cessna amp gauge, then out the same
firewall hole to the main battery cable.
No, really, it does. 3 runs of fat wires running all the way from left to
right, 2 runs inside the cockpit.
This is part of my general clean up of 45 years of old wiring, etc.
My ap is ok with a minor change of simply going from the alternator into
the cockpit to the cb on the far co-pilot side, then back out the firewall
and then over to intersect the main battery cable.
Using the externally shunted ammeter makes the above possible, also gives
voltage and a settable warnings. EI's instrument is certified as a primary
replacement for the factory gauge, using either the internal or external
shunt.
So last question-should the shunt be mounted in the cockpit or on the
firewall side? Skip S.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Europa electrics |
Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start)
Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and note 12
volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing happens. Should
I not get an alt warning light in this situation with regulator providing an
earth return to the warning light? I do have 12v at the C terminal and at
the +ve side of the capacitor.
Comments please.
Mike
G-CFMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Gents,
In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
tool onboard the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
alternator pack up.
Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks in anticipation,
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
tool on board the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
alternator pack up.
Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
appreciated.
Sure. But only because you've taken the time
to study, understand, and craft a process by
which you're going to build, operate and maintain
your airplane. Instruments are for telling you
things you do not know or have not planned for.
Limiting your in-flight accessibility to real-time
amps and volts is a perfectly rational design goal
when the system is failure tolerant and backed up
with a battery of known endurance. Confidence is
a great mitigator of uncertainty.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Flying on the edge of wetness |
Hi Guys,
I fly mostly good weather, but theres been a few times Ive had to fly
thru light showers to get home. The greater concern is getting into too
much rain. Id think this was possible, but a few of our Chapter 75 have
flown in a car wash type rain that put them on the gages for a few
minutes. Does anyone know the limits of the ignition system wires and
spark plugs? I fly the Stratus Subaru in my 601 and am just now looking
at my plugs and wires and wondering if theres much difference between
wet aircraft plugs and mine. Anyone knowledgeable?
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC |
| From: | "gordon" <gptailwind(at)msn.com> |
Has any one had success wireing up a new ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom
403 voice activated intercom? After reading some of the problems
posted last July and some having problems with the intercom function of
the radio I have decided I would like to use my Flightcom that worked
fine with my Val 760. The Val gave me so much trouble over about
6 years that I removed it for the ICOM. Sure would apprecite any
suggestions on wireing them together. Thanks Gordon
--------
tailwind10
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299869#299869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Europa electrics |
Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start)
Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and note 12
volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing happens. Should
I not get an alt warning light in this situation with regulator providing an
earth return? I do have 12v at the C terminal and at the +ve side of the
capacitor.
Comments please.
Mike
G-CFMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
| From: | "rckol" <rckol(at)kaehlers.com> |
John,
It looks like you are going to change course here based on Bob's advice, so this
information may not be needed but, I noticed yesterday that SteinAir is selling
bus bar/terminal strips with 10 terminals each on them that could probably
be used to feed your fuse holders, if they were located in close proximity to
your fuse holders.
http://www.steinair.com/strips.htm
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299921#299921
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
You have not described how your Europa is wired, and especially where
and how you have an "Alt Warning Lamp" set up.
Is your aircraft wired per Kirbymoorside, or per an Aeroelectric
scheme?
Have you wired a lamp to the regulator terminal for just such a lamp or is the
warning to be driven from elsewhere?
Did you use an LED or an incandescent lamp?
Ira A224 flying 6 years
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299943#299943
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
You have not described how your Europa is wired, and especially where
and how you have an "Alt Warning Lamp" set up.
Is your aircraft wired per Kirbymoorside, or per an Aeroelectric
scheme?
Have you wired a lamp to the regulator terminal for just such a lamp or is the
warning to be driven from elsewhere?
Did you use an LED or an incandescent lamp?
Ira A224 flying 6 years
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299944#299944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wires going to CB question |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Reading "The Aeroelectric Connection" Chapter on Circuit Protection, stated is
to not use the Circuit Breaker screws that mounts to bus to also connect inter-bus
jumpers or main power feed lines. "These things should get their own 8-32
fasteners."
I have 2 question:
1) I have a mini e-bus on passenger headrest that will never see more than 15 amps.
It consists of 3 P+B CBs. Can I feed this bus with ring terminal under the
head of one of the CB screws that mounts to the bus?
2) I need to take off a wire from this e-bus that will immediately go to a 2 amp
in line fuse to power my variometer, can I take power off e-bus through a ring
terminal under the head of one of the CB screws that mounts to the bus?
This goes against what is stated in AC, but I am thinking perhaps it was stated
considering there may be more amps than 10 or 1.
Bus bar is silver plated copper.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299951#299951
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying on the edge of wetness |
At 08:18 AM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I fly mostly good weather, but there's been a few times I've had to
>fly thru light showers to get home. The greater concern is getting
>into too much rain. I'd think this was possible, but a few of our
>Chapter 75 have flown in a "car wash" type rain that put them on the
>gages for a few minutes. Does anyone know the limits of the ignition
>system wires and spark plugs? I fly the Stratus Subaru in my 601 and
>am just now looking at my plugs and wires and wondering if there's
>much difference between wet aircraft plugs and mine. Anyone knowledgeable?
My 'test for condition' for refurbishment
of the ignition wiring and distributor
cap on by '59 Chevy was to go into the car
wash and clean the engine with high pressure
soapy water followed by a good rinse . . .
and don't spare the wiring. Get down around
plugs real good too.
When things were as they should be, I could
close the hood, hop in and smoothly drive
away. That would have been in 1965 or so.
My sense is that if your wiring is still
"flexible" meaning that the seal between
boots and the objects they cover is good,
the wiring will be exceedingly resistant to
the effects of accelerated rain drops. That
doesn't mean that OTHER engine accessories
are equally rain resistant . . . but I think
your ignition wires are the least of your
concerns.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long and short hot feeders |
At 04:21 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>John,
>
>It looks like you are going to change course here based on Bob's
>advice, so this information may not be needed but, I noticed
>yesterday that SteinAir is selling bus bar/terminal strips with 10
>terminals each on them that could probably be used to feed your fuse
>holders, if they were located in close proximity to your fuse holders.
>
>http://www.steinair.com/strips.htm
Hmmmm . . . I cannot imagine where those would
be used. Further, they feature non-locking, threaded
fasteners.
When such devices are called for in TC aircraft (rarely)
they look more like this . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Terminal_Strip_Captive_Stud.jpg
Note the captive treaded studs with LOCKING hardware.
I need to go back and look up that installation in the wire
books. In the picture above we see a mix of wire guages
which makes me wonder if it's a ground bus. Otherwise,
one would be hard pressed to provide appropriate
fuse/breaker protection for the wires serviced by
the bus.
In any case, if one truly needs such a bus, then
drill and tap a copper bar for at least 8-32 (10-32
better) screws. Thread in from back side and captivate
screws to bus bar with JB weld under head of screws
and last few threads under head. Torque well.
Terminal faces on wires go right against the bar and
against each other on the stud side. Cap of with a flat
washer and well torqued locking nut. If you need to
insulate the assembly from ground, then some work on
a saw and drill press will carve out a piece of
phenolic, delrin, lexan or perhaps even some cutting board
stock.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
hi all,
i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using white
letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''?
masking tape or a light pencil mark maybe? how far below the switch as a
rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is the way
to go?
any info appreciated. bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires going to CB question |
At 07:38 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Reading "The Aeroelectric Connection" Chapter on Circuit Protection,
>stated is to not use the Circuit Breaker screws that mounts to bus
>to also connect inter-bus jumpers or main power feed lines. "These
>things should get their own 8-32 fasteners."
>
>I have 2 question:
>1) I have a mini e-bus on passenger headrest that will never see
>more than 15 amps. It consists of 3 P+B CBs. Can I feed this bus
>with ring terminal under the head of one of the CB screws that
>mounts to the bus?
>2) I need to take off a wire from this e-bus that will immediately
>go to a 2 amp in line fuse to power my variometer, can I take power
>off e-bus through a ring terminal under the head of one of the CB
>screws that mounts to the bus?
>
>This goes against what is stated in AC, but I am thinking perhaps it
>was stated considering there may be more amps than 10 or 1.
>
>Bus bar is silver plated copper.
The idea for a bus bar is to offer contiguous electrical connection
from some feeder to an array of tap-offs that feed breakers or
fuses using techniques that minimize single points of failure.
This design goal suggests that if you can stamp or otherwise
fabricate a bus from a single piece of metal, the design goal
is met. When the "bus" is two rows, then some means for inter
connection the rows must be devised. Certainly, strapping
between the rows with a similar piece of metal - each end
enjoying a SOLID connection (solder, steel fastener with
locking hardware, etc. then the design goal has been
faithfully observed.
Having said that, we can peek behind the breaker panel
on a contemporary A36 Bonanza and see this:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Breaker_Panel_Busing_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Breaker_Panel_Busing_2.jpg
. . . here we observe specially fabricated inter-bus jumpers
crafted from some rather robust material fitted on each
end with equally robust flags that have been hard-soldered.
These particular assemblies attach with the non-locking, threaded
fasteners SHARED with the upstream side of a breaker. Hmmmm . . .
they've been doing this for decades . . . if it's good for an
A36 it's probably good for an RV7. But it DOES offer single
points of multiple failures due to loosening of non-secured
fasteners.
So here the design goals I cited above were not observed. At the
same time, out of many thousands of aircraft involved, we've
probably not heard about a situation (if any) where the
loosening of one non-locking screw affected several systems.
I don't know the 'chefs' who crafted this recipe for success
but the risks for adopting their philosophy is demonstrably low.
I cannot offer a powerful argument for observing the former
design goal over that used on the A36 except that it's not hard
to do and has a logical rationale for implementation based on
the same rationale that drove fabrication and assembly of the
terminal-strip bus discussed in an earlier posting this
evening.
It's your kitchen . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
It depends. If you have room set a laser level next to the panel. You
could also you a chalk line (that's what I did). My problem is my
fingers are still crooked.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob
noffs
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:56 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: labeling panel
hi all,
i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using white
letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''?
masking tape or a light pencil mark maybe? how far below the switch as
a rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is
the way to go?
any info appreciated. bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
At 03:08 PM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>Europa xs +912s. (Preparing for first engine start)
> Wired up and powered by 12v external source I select master on and
> note 12 volts on the meter. I then select alternator on and nothing
> happens. Should I not get an alt warning light in this situation
> with regulator providing an earth return? I do have 12v at the C
> terminal and at the +ve side of the capacitor.
>Comments please.
The alternator warning light built into rectifier/regulators
(on pm alternators) and into the regulator of internally
regulated alternators is not generally an all-inclusive
indicator of alternator functionality.
Suggest you consider some form of active notification of
low voltage at the bus for a definitive alternator
monitoring system. This may be built into one of your
off-the-shelf instruments. It can be easily added in
the form of a device like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf
or
http://www.periheliondesign.com/lvwaabm.htm
or
http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproductsfiles/LV_Annunciator%20Manual.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wireing a ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom 403MC |
At 10:49 AM 6/3/2010, you wrote:
>
>Has any one had success wireing up a new ICOM A 210 with a Flightcom
>403 voice activated intercom? After reading some of the problems
>posted last July and some having problems with the intercom function of
>the radio I have decided I would like to use my Flightcom that worked
>fine with my Val 760. The Val gave me so much trouble over about
>6 years that I removed it for the ICOM. Sure would apprecite any
>suggestions on wireing them together. Thanks Gordon
I'm not aware of any unique integration condition for
pairing the A210 Icom with the 403 Flightcom. The microphone
inputs and headset outputs of aircraft radios fall within
legacy interface standards that make any radio compatible
with any artfully designed intercom.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of soldering - Source Location |
Robert
Is the tiny link you posted to the actual ebay seller you used. I
see your tiny link actually references a seller located and
shipping from Taiwan. Generally I found the quality of Tools made in
Taiwan to be much better than anything from main land China. (Twenty
years ago most of Harbor Freight tools came from Taiwan - today most
of their products are from China with varying quality.) The info
below is copied from site referenced by the tiny link Robert
posted: Beware, when purchasing items located outside the USA, all
the statements below can be true.
Robert, could you possibility look back into your ebay history and
see if you still have the sellers id or the auction number of your
purchase - if you got yours in a moderate time and no additional
customs or processing charges that would be the source to buy from.
Thanks
jerb
Shipment
International Buyers Please Note:
Please kindly check the shipping cost with us. Import
duties, taxes, insurance and charges are not included in the
item price or shipping charges.
These charges are the buyers responsibility.
Please check with your countrys customs office to
determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding/buying.
Hotery is not responsible for service transit time. This
information is provided by the carrier and excludes weekends and holidays.
Note that transit times may vary, particularly during peak periods
At 09:41 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote:
>At 08:10 AM 6/2/2010, you wrote:
>>Hello Bob,
>>
>>What was the product you purchased?
>
> Sorry, here's one of several offerings for the
> tool on Ebay.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/278pb3w
>
> Bill makes an important point. This critter is
> an ignition hazard so be cognizant of the working
> environment. Combustible liquids with low
> vapor pressures are especially hazardous. I keep
> cans of "carburetor cleaner" (really a kind of lacquer
> thinner in a aerosol can) around for little shots
> of de-greasing agent. It avoids having spillable
> containers of the stuff around and limits the
> amount and duration of combustible mix in the air.
>
> Also, you DO want to check for effective shut-off
> for gas flow. I've had a few tools over the years
> that would leak out in the toolbox . . . but this
> is rare. You can charge your new tool and just let
> it set for a goodly amount of time and make sure
> it's tight. You can perhaps smell gas flows that are
> too small to hear.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: labeling panel |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Bob,
Consider making your own decals. There are internet offerings for water-slide decal
paper, on which you can print any lable you like from your computer printer.
And then overspray with a clear acrylic. I had problems using laser printed
decals, so I'd go with ink jet. The Laser toner is essentially melted crayon
(wax) and the clear sprays shrink away from it.
Also, there is a product called EZScreenPrint (ezscreenprint.com), which is a silk
screening process. I just received it so I'll post my experience with it in
the next few days. It uses a frameless screen that you can put your artwork
on and then tape in place and squeegee paint through. It is the most durable way
to go, but a little more involved.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300035#300035
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: labeling panel |
John,
I for one will be very interested in more of your detailed comments
concerning panel marking processes. Thanks for the tips.... David
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: labeling panel
>
> Bob,
> Consider making your own decals. There are internet offerings for
> water-slide decal paper, on which you can print any lable you like from
> your computer printer. And then overspray with a clear acrylic. I had
> problems using laser printed decals, so I'd go with ink jet. The Laser
> toner is essentially melted crayon (wax) and the clear sprays shrink away
> from it.
>
> Also, there is a product called EZScreenPrint (ezscreenprint.com), which
> is a silk screening process. I just received it so I'll post my experience
> with it in the next few days. It uses a frameless screen that you can put
> your artwork on and then tape in place and squeegee paint through. It is
> the most durable way to go, but a little more involved.
>
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300035#300035
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
Ira,
I have followed the wiring diagram in the manual using a filament lamp as
demanded. I shall recheck the circuits tomorrow, particularly the grounding
of the rectifier, and report back.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299943#299943
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/03/10 |
| From: | "mmayfield" <mmayfield(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now eliciting
purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list?
Political views among ordinary folk vary widely. I honestly don't come the Aeroelectric
List to read tales of woe about how someone feels regarding a particular
flavour of Government. There is plenty of freedom to express those opinions
elsewhere where they might be more in keeping with another forum style.
Mike
:x
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300089#300089
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa electrics |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Mike,
First, be careful, the figure showing the regulator pin out in the latest
version of the Rotax Install manual is incorrect. That would be figure
17-69 where the leftmost R pin is actually the L.
The L pin is simply a point with floats essentially unconnected, until
there is adequate voltage on the C line, then L is grounded through a
3.3k ohm resistor. That should then complete the circuit from +12
thought the lamp and resistor (and a FET) to ground.
One might suppose the C voltage threshold should be over 13V, but I
don't have the spec.
The lamp should work as you suspect as per Phil Lockwood.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300109#300109
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 |
Err, no chance.
Stan Sutterfield
Daytona Beach
Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now
eliciting
purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/04/10 |
Just hit your Delete Button
In a message dated 6/5/2010 10:25:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
Err, no chance.
Stan Sutterfield
Daytona Beach
Err, this apparent comment on some of the problems facing aviation is now
eliciting
purely political responses. Any chance of keeping these off the list?
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: labeling panel |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Bob,
If you're not already committed to panel labelling... I've had really
neat results using custom Letraset. I don't know if you have this
stuff where you are -- it's rub-on lettering in sheets. Anyway, they
also do custom sheets. You upload your artwork and they send you a
sheet of transfers. Brilliant stuff.
It's not cheap -- about =C2=A375 for an A4 sheet -- but then again it's
probably a lot cheaper than custom engraving, say. I fitted all the
panel lettering, warnings, reference speeds, lines, boxes, placards,
etc. onto one sheet.
http://www.letraset.com/design/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=130&cat=Colou
r
(Photo of switch panel attached FYI)
Once you've applied the lettering, etc., a coat of lacquer fixes the
transfers.
James
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 2:56 AM, bob noffs wrote:
> hi all,
> =C2- i am ready to label switches etc. on my grey panel. i am using whi
te
> letters on a clear tape. what works best to keep the tapes ''level''?
> masking tape or a light pencil mark=C2- maybe? how far below the switch
as a
> rule of thumb? and the best way to remove the pencil line if that is the
way
> to go?
> =C2-any info appreciated. bob noffs
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Bob,
Thanks for the advice. To be honest, now the plane is getting close
to flying, I'm having a lot of second thoughts about everything...
James
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
>
> In reading the AC, it's clear that an ammeter is a useful diagnostic
> tool on board the aeroplane, and yet at the same time, Bob's often
> espousing the virtues of not trying to diagnose faults in flight.
>
> So far, I've taken his latter view on board -- make a nice simple
> electric scheme, and then if things go awry, switch to e-bus. I then
> know I have n hours of time to run a few essential items -- more than
> enough to get on the ground, and most probably get to my home
> airfield. The scheme, incidentally, is Z11.
>
> Consequently, I haven't installed an ammeter or voltmeter. After all,
> the LV warning's going to flash away pretty soon, should the
> alternator pack up.
>
> Is this approach a good one? It makes sense to me, a
> daytime-VFR-for-the-foreseeable-future pilot, not to be trying to
> fathom electrical problems in-flight. Am I missing something though?
> Any thoughts you might have on the subject would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Sure. But only because you've taken the time
> to study, understand, and craft a process by
> which you're going to build, operate and maintain
> your airplane. Instruments are for telling you
> things you do not know or have not planned for.
>
> Limiting your in-flight accessibility to real-time
> amps and volts is a perfectly rational design goal
> when the system is failure tolerant and backed up
> with a battery of known endurance. Confidence is
> a great mitigator of uncertainty.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio signals |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
Gents,
I had been wondering, for some time, what to do about the PolyFiber
PolySpray coats. PolySpray is a metal-loaded paint that is used to
protect PolyFiber fabric from UV damage.
I'd wanted to put all the aerials inside my fuselage, but was
concerned that the PolySpray would attenuate radio signals to/from
COM, NAV, GPS (especially) and XPNDR. PolyFiber's own advice was to
put the aerials outside the fuselage, and to definitely use the
PolySpray coating, to ensure longevity of fabric (apparently the
PolySpray increases the fabric's life 4-fold!).
To cut a long story short, I decided to chance it -- with PolySpray
and internal aerials -- and see what happened, figuring that I could
move the aerials outside the fuselage if necessary.
Today, I did tests to see if the aerials function as I would wish, and
they did. The PolySpray coats appear to have made no difference to
the signals -- even the presumably very small GPS signal. I don't
have anything in the way of scientific instruments, just the signal
strength shown on the GPS and hand-held radio, but using the
fuselage-mounted aerials makes no discernible difference to the signal
strength compared to the equipment's own aerials. I've yet to test
the NAV / XPNDR aerials, but I assume the same will hold true for
those too.
FWIW!
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter, voltmeter and other diagnostics |
Bob N has bucket loads of electrical knowledge and my hat is off to
him for sharing with and educating ignorant people like myself. But,
when it comes to operating an airplane, I differ with his opinion. I
prefer to have more, not less, information in my cockpit.
What one does with that information is another story - and that is
where Bob's concept comes into play. He indicates that pilots should
not use information about their electrical system to make assessments
or decisions while airborne.
No. Not DEPEND on information while airborne . . .
Bob advocates having an electrical plan B that removes the PIC from
the airborne decision process.
No. The effective Plan-B MUST be crafted and understood by
that same PIC. The PIC is very much in the loop. The task
is to do all the investigation, deduction, design and
planning ON THE GROUND. The cockpit is a lousy classroom
for crisis management.
By the way, these are not ideas unique to me. They have
been handed down by generations of thoughtful
students/teachers of the art and science of elegant
systems design. What I've offered is not mere opinion
but fact demonstrated by our ancestors.
As you clearly explained, the intent is to make electrical problems
idiot-proof. Nothing wrong with that as it can make aviation safer
and simpler.
I think you have mis-interpreted my offerings.
"Idiot proof" was never a design goal.
When one crafts a complex system wherein the
smallest of failures represents a major operational
problem (like a speck of rust clogging your carburetor
jet) the prudent designer strives for failure tolerance.
I have produced an analysis of the accident that
totaled an expensive airplane, injured some folks
and now plagues the lives of individuals who would
MUCH rather be flying, water skiing, or reading
a good book. All this expense, inconvenience,
pain and taxation of $time$ came about because
some individuals didn't know what they didn't know.
They stacked extra goodies together with some
notion of adding "safety" while in fact, crafting
a system guaranteed to fail. Poor application of
a $3 worth of components set the stage for $millions$
of misery. This pilot had perhaps 30 seconds to do all
the multi-tasking that was demanded of him before
the inevitable came to pass.
Adequate and accurate information about system operation
and behavior in both normal and failure modes is necessary
for REDUCING probability of failure, REDUCING the effects
of any given failure and crafting a PLAN-B for comfortable
management of said failure.
But, the pilot in me wants information. For me, more information is better
Absolutely . . . but a desire for lots of lights and
dials in the cockpit and plans to sift offered
data in flight suggests a lack of confidence
in understanding the system.
The goal was never to make any part of the
system idiot proof . . . it was to gather together
EVERY simple-idea about system functionality. No
data point left unexplored. I.e., everything
to be known was known and ALL information was
considered . . . BEFORE THE AIRPLANE EVER LEAVES
THE GROUND.
It was my suggestion from the beginning that one
can craft a system with a very low parts count,
low cost of ownership and PRE-PLANNED steps for
failure contingencies. This is NOT a task for an
of, by or for the idiot. Artful implementation of
these design goals yields the simplest of systems
to operate thus reducing risks to the operator's
ability to multitask: to aviate, navigate, communicate,
diagnose, mitigate failure, and perhaps pray while
the wheels are off the ground.
Like my teachers before me, I encourage everyone to KNOW as
much about the aircraft's function as they are capable and
willing to acquire. I encourage everyone to understand
how ALL the simple-ideas combine to form a useful,
comfortable, inexpensive recipe for success.
Consider the notion of stacking of lots of dials and
gages on the panel with a plan for using them in flight to
become better educated about what's wrong and
what to do about it. Does this not suggest that the designer
doesn't know what he doesn't know but plans to learn
it later . . . literally "on the fly".
The system with a single LOW VOLTS warning light
was never a design goal for idiots . . . it was
but one component in a system crafted with a
design goal of failure tolerance and comfortable
operation by the most knowledgeable of builder/
operators. Indeed, the artfully crafted design
goes far beyond data displays.
It is best that lots of cockpit data be used for
operational enlightenment and/or in-flight
entertainment than for DISCOVERY OF NEW WAYS to
deal with an unfolding crisis.
An interesting study in failure modes effects
analysis:
Consider Figure Z-13/8. Search out and identify ANY
single failure where panel display of voltage or
current at any point in the system would be
useful to the pilot in terms of producing a
sure, simple response and graceful recovery.
If a heretofore unconsidered failure/data pair
is identified, what changes could be made to the
design to relieve the pilot of that DISTRACTION
should such a failure occur? We're not treating
pilots like potential idiots. We're doing all we
can BEFORE THE AIRPLANE IS BUILT to reduce risk
of diverting the pilot's time and attention from
the most critical tasks. MOST important, we're
combing the system design, materials and processes for
risk of failure from which no graceful recovery
is possible. This unfortunate condition is more
likely to arise from lack of attention to process
than from a lack of panel displays of real-time data.
The proportion of airplanes bent and people broken
rooted in electrical system failures is VERY small.
Of those cases, the outcomes would have been
strikingly different if failure tolerance were
improved, pilot workload were reduced, and/or
pilot understanding were enhanced. It's my
confident wager that the outcome of any such
incident would NOT have improved by putting
more numbers up on the panel.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
Today, I did tests to see if the aerials function as I would wish, and
they did. The PolySpray coats appear to have made no difference to
the signals -- even the presumably very small GPS signal.
Great data point sir. Thanks for investigating and
sharing your discovery. I'll capture and archive this
note on the website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
> Gents=2C
> I had been wondering=2C for some time=2C what to do about the PolyFiber
> PolySpray coats. PolySpray is a metal-loaded paint that is used to
> protect PolyFiber fabric from UV damage.
>
> FWIW!
>
> James
James=2C
In addition to the information you just shared regarding PolySpray=2C I t
hought I'd throw my two cents in......
Back when I had my Cessna=2C which spent all of it's life outside=2C I no
ticed that the top-side of the surfaces oxidized a fair amount. The wings'
upper surfaces=2C fuselage=2C etc=2C really needed those polishes and wax
jobs.
The bottom surfaces didn't!!!! They were as shiny as the day they got
painted. A wash and a simple coat of wax to clean any smog residue and th
ey were "good to go"!
The tops required plenty of polish and elbow grease!! I was able to even
tually get a pretty decent shine on the top=2C but it was real evident that
it oxidizes "significantly" more than the bottom surfaces (the paint job w
as about 7 years old=2C the underside has ZERO oxidation).
So!! With this personal experience on my own Cessna=2C I made the decisi
on to only spray the Poly Spray silver paint on the upper surfaces of the a
irplane I'm building. The sun does NOT shine on the bottom=2C so I did't w
ant to waste the paint.
I know what the Poly Fiber manual says. It wants you to spray the entire
plane!! I talked to Dondi Miller (@ Aircraft Tech Support...a leading sel
ler of the P.F. products)=2C and she said as far as she knew=2C you have to
spray the entire plane. But=2C since I get to make the decision on my own
plane....I chose not to. Others opinions may differ. I'm ok with that.
What this may have to do with your post is=3B if a guy were planning to
install his antennas inside his Poly Fabric covered plane=2C he might serio
usly consider NOT spraying the Poly Spray silver coats on the bottom surfac
es.
The Poly Fiber manual suggests that in order to get the best UV protectio
n=2C you need to spray the silver coatings thick enough that virtually zero
light shines through. Plus=2C according to the manual=2C a certified airc
raft HAS to be fully covered!!
I can see where such a semi-solid layer of aluminum flakes could affect s
ome radio waves. I chose to not do the bottom surfaces. (They got their s
hare of sealer/paint=2C etc)
Just my thoughts on the matter....
Mike Welch
Kolb MkIII
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
> I can see where such a semi-solid layer of aluminum flakes could
> affect some radio waves. I chose to not do the bottom
> surfaces. (They got their share of sealer/paint, etc)
Perhaps some consideration of electro-magnetic wave behavior
is useful here . . .
If you were to seal yourself up in a 55-gallon drum
and weld the lid on. A hand held vhf radio would be
useless in terms of communicating with the
outside world. If you added a hole in the drum (but
didn't stick the antenna through the hole), the hole
would have to be enlarged to about 10% of a wavelength
(120 MHz is 2.5 meters or 100 inches. 10% is about
10 inches) to have significant communication with the
outside world but would become really "transparent" at
50% or 50 inches in diameter.
Now consider the effects of suspending particles of
aluminum, probably less than .001" in diameter, in
the path between a transmitting and receiving antenna.
These tiny "shields" are about 1/100,000th of a
wavelength at VHF comm frequencies and 1/10,000th
at transponder frequencies. They are a SIGNIFICANT
part of a wavelength at the frequency of light and
thus offer useful attenuation by reflection of the
effects of light on the surface.
The only way you can make these particle a useful
tool for affecting VHF radio is to electrically bond
the particles together such that the sheet resistance
approaches that of a solid material like aluminum
skin. This simply cannot and does not happen when
dispersed throughout a fluid polymer intended to
be a component of paint.
Some of you may recall a discussion I had with
Greg Richter some years ago wherein he offered
that spray-on conductive coatings were suitable
for adding a ground plane to the inside surface of
a non-conducting skin. There too we considered the
exceedingly difficult task of purposefully increasing
conductivity of an applied coating. In the case
of PolyFiber coatings, there's no interest whatsoever
in the electrical conductivity of the finished
coating.
It's the size of aluminum particles compared with
the wavelength of ultra-violet light that makes
the coating magic . . . it's effectiveness as
a conductor at radio frequencies is very low
and as demonstrated . . . not noticeable in terms
of antennas buried under the skin.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | High Definition MotorSports camera for your aircraft |
| From: | "planecrazy1" <sales(at)onemagictouch.com> |
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--------
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We chrome fiberglass spinners and more!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300222#300222
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
So all those decals on FAA-PMA GPS and transponder antenna radomes saying
"Antenna: Do Not Paint" are flooby-dust, as I long suspected... good to
know.
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> I can see where such a semi-solid layer of aluminum flakes could affect
>> some radio waves. I chose to not do the bottom surfaces. (They got their
>> share of sealer/paint, etc)
>>
>
> Perhaps some consideration of electro-magnetic wave behavior
> is useful here . . .
>
> If you were to seal yourself up in a 55-gallon drum
> and weld the lid on. A hand held vhf radio would be
> useless in terms of communicating with the
> outside world. If you added a hole in the drum (but
> didn't stick the antenna through the hole), the hole
> would have to be enlarged to about 10% of a wavelength
> (120 MHz is 2.5 meters or 100 inches. 10% is about
> 10 inches) to have significant communication with the
> outside world but would become really "transparent" at
> 50% or 50 inches in diameter.
>
> Now consider the effects of suspending particles of
> aluminum, probably less than .001" in diameter, in
> the path between a transmitting and receiving antenna.
> These tiny "shields" are about 1/100,000th of a
> wavelength at VHF comm frequencies and 1/10,000th
> at transponder frequencies. They are a SIGNIFICANT
> part of a wavelength at the frequency of light and
> thus offer useful attenuation by reflection of the
> effects of light on the surface.
>
> The only way you can make these particle a useful
> tool for affecting VHF radio is to electrically bond
> the particles together such that the sheet resistance
> approaches that of a solid material like aluminum
> skin. This simply cannot and does not happen when
> dispersed throughout a fluid polymer intended to
> be a component of paint.
>
> Some of you may recall a discussion I had with
> Greg Richter some years ago wherein he offered
> that spray-on conductive coatings were suitable
> for adding a ground plane to the inside surface of
> a non-conducting skin. There too we considered the
> exceedingly difficult task of purposefully increasing
> conductivity of an applied coating. In the case
> of PolyFiber coatings, there's no interest whatsoever
> in the electrical conductivity of the finished
> coating.
>
> It's the size of aluminum particles compared with
> the wavelength of ultra-violet light that makes
> the coating magic . . . it's effectiveness as
> a conductor at radio frequencies is very low
> and as demonstrated . . . not noticeable in terms
> of antennas buried under the skin.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
Mike Welch wrote:
> I know what the Poly Fiber manual says. It wants you to spray the
> entire plane!! I talked to Dondi Miller (@ Aircraft Tech Support...a
> leading seller of the P.F. products), and she said as far as she knew,
> you have to spray the entire plane. But, since I get to make the
> decision on my own plane....I chose not to. Others opinions may
> differ. I'm ok with that.
I almost let this go without comment. It's your plane and you can do as
you chose, but remember that Steve Wittman and his wife were killed
because of not following the Poly Fiber process. Steve probably designed
built more aircraft that anyone I know of. The process was developed for
a reason, and I will follow it.
I just was to make sure that others have this information. You are free
to do what you want with your aircraft, but I will bet that if you did
have an accident caused by not following the process, that your
insurance would be worthless.
Just my $0.02,
Dennis
> Mike Welch
> Kolb MkIII
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PolyFiber silver coats and their effect on radio |
signals
At 12:55 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
>So all those decals on FAA-PMA GPS and transponder antenna radomes
>saying "Antenna: Do Not Paint" are flooby-dust, as I long
>suspected... good to know.
Not too fast . . . while the effects of the suspended conductive
material has only a small effect on the intensity of passage/
reflection of a signal at radio frequencies, the effect is not ZERO.
In terms of first order effects, it might even be exceedingly
difficult to measure. However, there are also BENDING or LENS
effects to consider.
Radar transmits energy in the hundreds to thousands of watts
while expecting to see very tiny reflections of that energy from
far objects. Further, the DIRECTION from which those signals
are perceived to come is important in deducing the location
of radar-painted object.
Even pure insulators will bend the direction of a radio
frequency wave front not unlike the manner in which a prism bends
light as a function of its frequency (color). While painting
a radome may have little effect on the strength of a
passing signal, it can have a profound effect on changing
the direction of the wavefront. I would think that coatings
carrying conductive particulates would be even worse.
I can tell you that it's an exceedingly difficult task
to craft an "optically perfect" radome that's also friendly
to airflow over the nose of an aircraft. The act of painting
an otherwise optimized radome could have an effect on quality
of the targets display not unlike viewing an object through
a glass brick.
But yes, for non-directional interpretation of received
energy like GPS, Transponders, etc. the effects of additional
paint are very tiny indeed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bob,
I have been flying a Rutan VariEze for many years with several changes in
com antennas. All have been suboptimal. I am planning on mounting a dipole
in the wing-winglet with ferrite donuts at the coax as used with the copper
tape antennas. The plan is to use a length of copper tubing for each leg of
the dipole and thread it up the leading edge of the winglet in the
underlying styrafoam and horizontally in the leading edge of the wing foam. The
center coax lead will be connected to the vertical winglet pole and the
shield to the horizontal wing pole. I was planning on using 1/8 inch copper
tubing. Would that size tubing give me adequate bandwidth? Do you see any other
pitfalls in this plan? I want to make sure it will work before I cut the
2-3 inch hole in the wingtip-lower winglet junction in order to thread the
tubing in and connect the coax.
John Greaves
VariEze N81JG
Redding, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage regulator/dropper |
I have built a timer kit for my transfer fuel pump (CK158B from
CanaKit.com) that works as desired. The directions indicate that it
should be powered by 9 Vdc supply or a 12 Vdc 'regulated' supply. I my
electrically dependent plane, I will be using 2 AGM batteries powered by
2 alternators (55A from Geo Metro) converted to external Ford regulators.
I need to build a circuit to drop the 13 to 15 Volts to 9-12 volts,
so as to not zap the HEF4541BP timer IC or 9V relay coil. On my lab
supply, the ammeter doesn't register any perceptible current (it can
show as little as 0.1 amp) while the timer is running with the relay
energized, so I don't know the actual current draw of the timer.
Can you suggest a regulator circuit that will drop the extra 4-5 volts,
and keep the electronics from frying?
Phil in IL, RV-10 w/20B Mazda
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | voltage regulator level change? |
I have purchased 2 Ford 166 regulators to provide external regulation
(and OV protection capabilities) for the 2 alternators in my
electrically dependent plane.
As I am using AGM batteries, I understand they prefer a higher
charging voltage than standard lead-acid types. Can one readily modify
the Ford regulators to provide the 14.5 V output level? Or, is there an
external circuit that I can insert between the alternator and regulator
(a voltage divider) that would accomplish this?
Phil in IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:17 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>I have been flying a Rutan VariEze for many years with several
>changes in com antennas. All have been suboptimal. I am planning on
>mounting a dipole in the wing-winglet with ferrite donuts at the
>coax as used with the copper tape antennas. The plan is to use a
>length of copper tubing for each leg of the dipole and thread it up
>the leading edge of the winglet in the underlying styrafoam and
>horizontally in the leading edge of the wing foam. The center coax
>lead will be connected to the vertical winglet pole and the shield
>to the horizontal wing pole. I was planning on using 1/8 inch copper
>tubing. Would that size tubing give me adequate bandwidth? Do you
>see any other pitfalls in this plan? I want to make sure it will
>work before I cut the 2-3 inch hole in the wingtip-lower winglet
>junction in order to thread the tubing in and connect the coax.
What kinds of antennas have you tried so far?
What's your criteria for judging them sub-optimal?
Are there other VariEze builders who have already
built the antenna you propose? Have THEY made any
Antenna A versus Antenna B comparisons that would
encourage you to carry out this surgery on the
airplane?
What is the height of the winglet? Can you get
a half-wave radiator up the winglet? There's
a unique center-fed half-wave that runs a
feedline up the center of the lower element.
See:
http://www.miracleantenna.com/AirWhip.htm
This might be easier to install. But
before you start carving on the airplane,
it would be useful to calibrate your
expectations against the physics of
contemporary airborne antenna performance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bob,
I originally had a foil dipole with 20.3 inch limbs and 3 ferrite donuts on
the coax that worked reasonably well until I had to change my brake lines
from Nyloseal to aluminum. That detuned and ruined the antenna. Next I had
a similar tape dipole on the seat back, but my body detuned that. Now I
have the Miracle Whip inside the front fuselage that works within a few 10's
of miles(OK only for inside airport areas), but is too directional probably
due to metal and my legs nearby. Other VE's have had these wing-winglet
dipole antennas and I think they have been satisfactory and I think superior
to all other buried antennas, but I am waiting for reply on the canard
aviators site. The surgery on the plane is minimal since I have a wire conduit
in the foam wing from root to the tip just under the fiberglass tip that I
can access easily and also thread the copper tubing in the foam from.
The winglet height is adequate for the 20.3 inch vertical limb. I would use
the Miracle Whip, but it is too long for the winglet height. I considered
extending it along the outer wing foam with the last 1/2 of the tip in the
vertical part of the winglet, but that would require quite a bit of surgery
to bury the base load box in the wing foam near the center of the wing and
might compromise the foam-skin stress structure of the wing( a definite no
go there option).
I could go to an external whip antenna with a ground plane of wire or
aluminum, but I would prefer not to add parasitic drag. The wingtip idea is less
invasive surgery.
Thanks for your reply. I hope I have answered you questions.
John Greaves
In a message dated 6/6/2010 8:45:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
At 08:17 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
I have been flying a Rutan VariEze for many years with several changes in
com antennas. All have been suboptimal. I am planning on mounting a dipole
in the wing-winglet with ferrite donuts at the coax as used with the copper
tape antennas. The plan is to use a length of copper tubing for each leg
of the dipole and thread it up the leading edge of the winglet in the
underlying styrafoam and horizontally in the leading edge of the wing foam. The
center coax lead will be connected to the vertical winglet pole and the
shield to the horizontal wing pole. I was planning on using 1/8 inch copper
tubing. Would that size tubing give me adequate bandwidth? Do you see any
other pitfalls in this plan? I want to make sure it will work before I cut the
2-3 inch hole in the wingtip-lower winglet junction in order to thread the
tubing in and connect the coax.
What kinds of antennas have you tried so far?
What's your criteria for judging them sub-optimal?
Are there other VariEze builders who have already
built the antenna you propose? Have THEY made any
Antenna A versus Antenna B comparisons that would
encourage you to carry out this surgery on the
airplane?
What is the height of the winglet? Can you get
a half-wave radiator up the winglet? There's
a unique center-fed half-wave that runs a
feedline up the center of the lower element.
See:
_http://www.miracleantenna.com/AirWhip.htm_
(http://www.miracleantenna.com/AirWhip.htm)
This might be easier to install. But
before you start carving on the airplane,
it would be useful to calibrate your
expectations against the physics of
contemporary airborne antenna performance.
Bob . . .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage regulator level change? |
At 10:37 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>I have purchased 2 Ford 166 regulators to provide external
>regulation (and OV protection capabilities) for the 2 alternators in
>my electrically dependent plane.
> As I am using AGM batteries, I understand they prefer a higher
> charging voltage than standard lead-acid types. Can one readily
> modify the Ford regulators to provide the 14.5 V output level? Or,
> is there an external circuit that I can insert between the
> alternator and regulator (a voltage divider) that would accomplish this?
There is quite a lot of no-value-added-worry-fodder
circulated by well meaning but ill informed individuals
who parrot "common knowledge" and tid-bits gleaned
from a host of data sources. One example can be found
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/Know_Your_Charging_System.pdf
The Big Picture experience and study of simple-ideas for
lead-acid battery technology demonstrates that the service
life of the battery in your airplane is MOST influenced by
how you use and maintain it . . . and LEAST influenced by the
alternator regulator's set-point.
There's a large body of information you may cruise
by going to my website at:
http://aeroelectric.com
and use the home page search engine to locate
articles referring to "charging voltage". While
you'll find several "preferred" charging voltage
set-points cited for various products, nobody
strays very far from the legacy lead-acid charging
set-point of 14.2 volts. Many an SVLA battery
has been STC'd onto type certificated aircraft
as a DIRECT REPLACEMENT for the flooded battery
product that the airplane was certified with.
None of those STCs call for re-adjusting
the alternator regulator.
The short answer is that there's no advantage to
be gained for modifying your regulators. The
SVLA/RG/AGM batteries will live quite happily in
your airplane at the stock VR166 operating set point.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage regulator/dropper |
At 10:32 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
I have built a timer kit for my transfer fuel pump (CK158B from
CanaKit.com) that works as desired. The directions indicate that it
should be powered by 9 Vdc supply or a 12 Vdc 'regulated' supply. I
my electrically dependent plane, I will be using 2 AGM batteries
powered by 2 alternators (55A from Geo Metro) converted to external
Ford regulators.
I need to build a circuit to drop the 13 to 15 Volts to 9-12
volts, so as to not zap the HEF4541BP timer IC or 9V relay coil. On
my lab supply, the ammeter doesn't register any perceptible current
(it can show as little as 0.1 amp) while the timer is running with
the relay energized, so I don't know the actual current draw of the timer.
Can you suggest a regulator circuit that will drop the extra 4-5
volts, and keep the electronics from frying?
See: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Accessory_Regulator.pdf
This circuit can be built in a variety of 'sizes'
depending on your current demands. The LM317 is
good for up to 1.5A on a sufficient heat sink.
In your case, you probably don't need any heat
sink. Looking at the product you're integrating
into your airplane . . .
Emacs!
It appears that there would be room on the
bottom of the board to bond an LM317 right
to the ECB and wire the rest of the components
to it . . . also tacking them to the board
with E6000 to avoid vibration breakage of
the leads. Thus you modify the existing
assembly to run from the aircraft bus as
opposed to adding another black box to condition
power for this one accessory.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
After following the link in Bob's posting to the center-fed half-wave antenna,
I noticed that Miracle Antenna also sells an electrical noise filter.
http://miracleantenna.com/Smoothie.htm
Assuming the product performs as advertised, is it a useful product that is worth
the time, money and weight penalty? I seem to remember Bob saying that modern
avionics should be designed to withstand any voltage variations that the aircraft
throws at them. Theoretically a pure DC supply voltage is better. But
practically speaking, is the average unfiltered aircraft DC bus voltage good
enough?
The Rotax alternator is single phase. Its rectified output is not as smooth
as that from 3 phase alternators. Would a noise filter be beneficial for smoothing
the output of a single phase alternator or is the output good enough without
a filter?
Thanks, Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300336#300336
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage regulator/dropper |
| From: | Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Bob
Instead of the LM317 (which requires the use of tuning resistors), what
about using an LM7809? It's almost identical to the LM319, but without the
variable output option - it's preset to 9V. Also good for 1A, with adequate
heat sink, and has all the niceties of overheat protection etc.
I've used the 7805 (the 5V variety of the 78xx family) for many land-based
projects with great success. Is there maybe an excluding property that makes
them unsuitable for aviation applications that I haven't encountered?
Thanks
Etienne
On 7 June 2010 16:03, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 10:32 PM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
>
> I have built a timer kit for my transfer fuel pump (CK158B from
> CanaKit.com) that works as desired. The directions indicate that it should
> be powered by 9 Vdc supply or a 12 Vdc 'regulated' supply. I my
> electrically dependent plane, I will be using 2 AGM batteries powered by 2
> alternators (55A from Geo Metro) converted to external Ford regulators.
> I need to build a circuit to drop the 13 to 15 Volts to 9-12 volts, so
> as to not zap the HEF4541BP timer IC or 9V relay coil. On my lab supply,
> the ammeter doesn't register any perceptible current (it can show as little
> as 0.1 amp) while the timer is running with the relay energized, so I don't
> know the actual current draw of the timer.
>
> Can you suggest a regulator circuit that will drop the extra 4-5 volts, and
> keep the electronics from frying?
>
>
> See:
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Accessory_Regulator.pdf
>
> This circuit can be built in a variety of 'sizes'
> depending on your current demands. The LM317 is
> good for up to 1.5A on a sufficient heat sink.
> In your case, you probably don't need any heat
> sink. Looking at the product you're integrating
> into your airplane . . .
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> It appears that there would be room on the
> bottom of the board to bond an LM317 right
> to the ECB and wire the rest of the components
> to it . . . also tacking them to the board
> with E6000 to avoid vibration breakage of
> the leads. Thus you modify the existing
> assembly to run from the aircraft bus as
> opposed to adding another black box to condition
> power for this one accessory.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage regulator/dropper |
At 09:21 AM 6/7/2010, you wrote:
>Hi Bob
>
>Instead of the LM317 (which requires the use of tuning resistors),
>what about using an LM7809? It's almost identical to the LM319, but
>without the variable output option - it's preset to 9V. Also good
>for 1A, with adequate heat sink, and has all the niceties of
>overheat protection etc.
>
>I've used the 7805 (the 5V variety of the 78xx family) for many
>land-based projects with great success. Is there maybe an excluding
>property that makes them unsuitable for aviation applications that I
>haven't encountered?
>
>Thanks
>Etienne
Good choice. I tend to "jump" on the LM317 because of it's
broad applicability and we stock the part. But a fixed
voltage regulator from the 78xx family is certainly
an option that eliminates a couple of resistors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: noise filter |
At 09:37 AM 6/7/2010, you wrote:
>
>After following the link in Bob's posting to the center-fed
>half-wave antenna, I noticed that Miracle Antenna also sells an
>electrical noise filter.
>http://miracleantenna.com/Smoothie.htm
>Assuming the product performs as advertised, is it a useful product
>that is worth the time, money and weight penalty? I seem to
>remember Bob saying that modern avionics should be designed to
>withstand any voltage variations that the aircraft throws at
>them. Theoretically a pure DC supply voltage is better. But
>practically speaking, is the average unfiltered aircraft DC bus
>voltage good enough?
Yes.
> The Rotax alternator is single phase. Its rectified output is
> not as smooth as that from 3 phase alternators. Would a noise
> filter be beneficial for smoothing the output of a single phase
> alternator or is the output good enough without a filter?
All potential victims of noise have a threshold
above which the stimulus degrades performance. All
potential antagonists for noise are never ZERO
noise (although batteries ARE exceedingly quiet!).
Successful integration of potential victims with
potential antagonist requires a working knowledge
of risk. There are agreements between users,
manufacturers and regulators of products where
a practical ability to WITHSTAND a certain amount
of noise is tailored to a practical ability to
LIMIT the noise generated. Popular agreements
include DO-160 and Mil-Std-704 . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Philosophy/Whats_all_this_DO160_Stuff_Anyhow.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-Specs/Mil-Std-704f.pdf
The rule of thumb for deciding whether or not
to add extra-ordinary prophylactic measures
against noise issues is to
(1) search the current experience base and
(2) wait and see.
It MIGHT be that some single accessory you're considering
for your project is extra sensitive to noise. Otherwise,
don't start adding noise mitigation goodies to the
system before you know that you truly have a noise
problem THAT WAS NOT GENERATED BY IMPROPER
INSTALLATION.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? |
Guys,
Thanks for your suggestions regarding this problem.
It turned out the radio was transmitting carrier wave through the
frequency range, but only transmitting voice below about 120MHz, and
above 130MHz. When no voice was going out there was no side tone either.
Becker said if its transmitting on any frequency then there's nothing
wrong with the radio as there is only one transmitter, etc.
I believe I have solved it by replacing the antenna feeder. I'm not sure
if the problem was a degraded piece of coax or a poor termination. The
previous feeder was a piece of RG58 of unknown pedigree and is now a
piece of RG400 that happened to be in my spares box and was 6" too long
:) (Makes a change - everything is usually 6" too short). Crimp on
terminations from Stein using Bob's method note.
I still don't really understand what was happening - I guess the radio
was smart enough to only provide a side tone when it was actually
radiating speech on the carrier wave, and it realised that no speech was
going out on the frequencies in question.
Peter
On 12/05/2010 21:17, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a Becker AR4201 radio in my One Design
> <http://www.glosterairparts.co.uk/OneDesignRebuild8.htm> that I have
> just started flying (2 hours on the tacho). Initially the radio worked
> great (after I got the mike jack wiring correct - there's always one
> bozo moment in any project). Halfway through the 2nd flight the
> transmit quit - receive was still good. Plugging in another headset on
> the ground and the transmit worked OK.
>
> A couple of days later I pushed the aeroplane out for another flight
> and no transmit at all. Carrier wave is being transmitted but no
> modulation (and so side tone in my headset). After trying to figure it
> out for an hour I put it back together and went flying, still with
> carrier wave only. After a while I called a local tower (119.0) - loud
> and clear. Returned to my field (124.1) to the same problem - carrier
> wave only. What is going on!!! :-(
>
> I have not been able to test further - but I need to step through the
> frequency range and find out which freqs work and which do not. This
> is a very simple airplane with no intercom, headset connected directly
> to the radio. Receive is good all the time, on all freqs tried so far.
> Radio shows the transmit arrow whenever the PTT is pushed, and puts
> out carrier wave on 124.1. Why is it modulating on some freqs and not
> others? Headset works in other aircraft (have tried 3 so far with same
> results).
>
> Does anyone have any idea about what is going on?
>
> Any suggestions gratefully received.
>
> Peter
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: noise filter |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
> The rule of thumb for deciding whether or not
> to add extra-ordinary prophylactic measures
> against noise issues is to
>
> (1) search the current experience base and
>
> (2) wait and see.
Thanks Bob. Good advice. There is no sense fixing something that is not broken.
I will wait and see.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300372#300372
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strange radio transmit problem - any suggestions? |
At 12:25 PM 6/7/2010, you wrote:
Guys,
Thanks for your suggestions regarding this problem.
It turned out the radio was transmitting carrier wave through the
frequency range, but only transmitting voice below about 120MHz, and
above 130MHz. When no voice was going out there was no side tone
either. Becker said if its transmitting on any frequency then there's
nothing wrong with the radio as there is only one transmitter, etc.
I believe I have solved it by replacing the antenna feeder. I'm not
sure if the problem was a degraded piece of coax or a poor
termination. The previous feeder was a piece of RG58 of unknown
pedigree and is now a piece of RG400 that happened to be in my spares
box and was 6" too long :) (Makes a change - everything is usually 6"
too short). Crimp on terminations from Stein using Bob's method note.
I still don't really understand what was happening - I guess the
radio was smart enough to only provide a side tone when it was
actually radiating speech on the carrier wave, and it realized that
no speech was going out on the frequencies in question.
From your description it now seems likely that
you had a bad shield connection at one or both
ends of the original coax. When deprived of good
shield connection, a feed line that NORMALLY
conducts most energy of interest between antenna
May 12, 2010 - June 07, 2010
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jn